Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing

[Belinda Sauro]

Hi Amy,
  Not sure if I told you that Bailey my + had non-rengerative anemia 
and epogen got his HCT up.  He started at 3 shots a week that you would 
be able to do at home, Fred is currently getting this for his 
non-regenerative anemia and in 4 weeks has gone from HCT 16% to 26%, 
that's about the only thing that is going right at this time, everything 
else is going to h*ll in a hand basket!!


Baliey HCT went from 15% to 40 percent on about 6 or so weeks and 
remained normal in the mid 30's until he passed from pancreatic cancer.  
He was on it over 5 months.  He would have died in a few weeks had  not 
started it, with those odds I didn't see any reason not to.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing

[Amy]

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the advice.  I have certainly considered all my options and I know 
that this is not a good place for Wolfie to be at.  I've had so many positive 
cats and unfortunately I know how it usually ends.  This one has made it longer 
than any of my other ones and I would do anything to save him if I thought that 
something existed.  

Wolfie started pred after testing positive for hemobart.  I tried weaning him 
off the pred once the treatment was completed and he became very weak and 
lethargic after dropping to one pill a day.  The specialist at Cornell told me 
that the pred could definitely be helping if we are dealing with lymphoma or 
other issues and we all agreed that having Wolfie crash right now by taking him 
off the pred is probably not the way to go.  I know it's not going to reverse 
his non-regenerative anemia.  Is there anything that can do that?  Nothing I'm 
aware of does.  That's why I posted asking if anybody has seen a cat brought 
back by LTCI once non-regenerative anemia has been confirmed.  There are some 
definite pros and cons to using it.  Numerous vets have told me that it doesn't 
come without the stress of bloodwork, additional visits, monitoring, etc.  If I 
had evidence that this could reverse Wolfie's situation, I would seriously 
consider it.  Heck I'm
 considering it even knowing it probably won't.  I have nothing but Wolfie's 
best interest in mind.  I'm not sure monitoring and routinely drawing blood on 
a cat that is no longer making red blood cells is a wise decision when not one 
person out there has been able to say "yes, this saved my cat from 
non-regenerative anemia."  

I hope that LTCI turns out to be a life-saver.  I really do.  I'm just afraid 
of all the hype because if just seems too good to be true.  I have to think 
about Wolfie and the fact that he is very opinionated.  He's not a cat that 
would want to sit at a vet getting drips or being hospitalized.  I'm all for 
doing everything I can to save him but I also have to respect the cat that he 
is and how I want his last months, weeks, days, whatever to be spent.  I'm 
trying to gather as much info as possible to make the best decision for him.  I 
hate this disease and I hate that I might not be able to do anything to save 
him :( 

Thanks again for all the suggestions.  I am definitely researching everything.  
I am very familiar with holistic approaches and by no means feel obligated to 
follow conventional medicine.  I just want to do what is best for Wolfie and 
I'm not sure any of us really know the answer to that when it comes to this 
disease.  

Amy  

--- On Thu, 11/26/09, jbero tds.net  wrote:

> From: jbero tds.net 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 3:37 PM
> >
> > Amy,
> 
> 
> You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread. 
> You have a few options
> available to you.  You can follow conventional advice
> or you can take a
> chance.  From what I've seen conventional medicine
> does not help in this
> scenario.
> 
> My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone? 
> The only possible
> reason I can see for this is hemobartonella.  If
> that's not present, I fail
> to see the value.  Prednisone seems to be the cure all
> in veterinary
> medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves
> symptoms while your cat
> dies.
> 
> I don't think you have much time to make a choice. 
> Unless there is a valid
> reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper
> it)  I would be
> aggressive at this point.  I would get acemannan, LTCI
> and I would probably
> try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally
> would certainly
> be willing to help you with it).  I would do it all
> together and right now.
> This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I
> understand the
> massive investment this could mean.  If, however, you
> simply treat symptoms
> and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are
> simply prolonging
> the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also
> be exceptionally
> expensive.
> 
> Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so
> you sort of have
> that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it. 
> The prednisone is not
> raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping?  You
> have a non
> regenerative anemia on your hands.  Unless you reverse
> that you're dead in
> the water - prednisone will not do this.
> 
> You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I
> am so sorry for
> that.  If you leave the beaten path of veterinary
> medicine you have to do
> the leg work and fight an uphill battle.  Medicine is
> not perfect and
> neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I
> have seem,
> conventional medicine has failed time and again in this
> situation.
> 
> Good luck and God bless.
> 
> Jenny
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Fel

Re: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final

[Sharyl]

I made some tiny urls for the links Sally listed in her post.

Guide to the Use of Vitamin C
http://tinyurl.com/Clinical-guide-Vit-C

Megascorbic Therapy:  A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine
http://tinyurl.com/Megascorbic-paper

Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control
http://tinyurl.com/Belfields-paper

Sharyl


--- On Thu, 11/26/09, S. Jewell  wrote:

> From: S. Jewell 
> Subject: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 12:26 PM
> I posted a couple of links earlier
> that I found helpful
> throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them
> again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the
> intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP,
> FeLV,
> URI, and other cat diseases.  If I had it to do over
> again,
> each of my three cats would have been placed immediately
> on
> the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers
> eradicated,
> for only then is the virus also eradicated and left
> powerless to replicate or resurface.  I have also
> used
> intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with
> life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic
> pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics.
> She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then
> antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her
> symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the
> P.A.).
> And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried
> a
> diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and
> because
> of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which
> create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and
> destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and
> happy.  
> 
>  
> 
> As you can clearly see, the power of "vitamin" C extends
> well beyond what one would expect from a "vitamin" and
> according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and
> reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in
> veterinary medicine.  It is tragic that Belfield saw
> these
> same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet
> practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare
> exception conventional vets are not even aware of the
> power
> of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine.  But at
> least
> those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit
> to
> you.  If you have questions or I can help any of you
> in any
> way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this
> board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. 
> God bless
> each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals
> and hopefully this information will help you in your own
> rescue work. 
> 
>  
> 
> Clinical
>  cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+c&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g1> 
> Guide to
> the Use of Vitamin C
> 
>  
> 
> Megascorbic
>  t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm>  Prophylaxis
> and
> Megascorbic Therapy:  A New Orthomolecular Modality
> in
> Veterinary Medicine
> 
>  
> 
> An 
> Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and
> Control
> 
>  
> 
> www.Belfield.com  .
> 
>  
> 
> The
>  04354X>  Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell
> Belfield, DVM
> 
>  
> 
> Sally Jewell
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 


  

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing

[jbero tds.net]

Belinda,

Wow.  You have a sick little kitty.  I don't know if you're looking for
input or not; and I know nothing about his history but I would suggest two
things.

1. Find a holistic vet.

2. Check a basic metabolic panel.  CRF patients often have electrolyte
imbalances that can cause seizures.  Vitamin b12, vitamin e and electrolyte
replacement can help.

Okay one more thing.  I don't know much about the approach to crf in animals
but in people often times the solution is prednisone or immune suppression
as the disease process is usually autoimmune.  I know nothing of what has
been done in veterinary medicine to deal with this.  I just thought I'd tell
you that.  Good luck and I will pray for your little guy.

Jenny

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Belinda Sauro wrote:

>   Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're not
> sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so far are
> controlled.  He is eating like a little piggy and drinking.  It takes about
> 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the phenobarbitol so he is
> pretty much out of it most of the day.  His legs aren't working right now
> even though he does try to get up and can walk a step or 2 before he loses
> his balance.
>
> The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would
> guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe inner
> ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was on drops
> only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we diagnosed him
> but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he didn't need them, they
> were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten worse again.  I'm going to
> tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril for wahtever time he has left,
> this is the 5th time an infection has come back because the vet wouldn't
> listen to me.  He had an infection years ago that he kept getting back
> because they wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics longer like I requested.
>  Fred has a really bad time clearing infections and they really kick his
> butt so I have to be more forceful about that.
>
> I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine.
>
> Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and
> yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my
> blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!!
>
>
> --
>
> Belinda
> happiness is being owned by cats ...
>
> http://bemikitties.com
>
> http://BelindaSauro.com 
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing

[Belinda Sauro]

   Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're 
not sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so 
far are controlled.  He is eating like a little piggy and drinking.  It 
takes about 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the 
phenobarbitol so he is pretty much out of it most of the day.  His legs 
aren't working right now even though he does try to get up and can walk 
a step or 2 before he loses his balance.


The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would 
guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe 
inner ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was 
on drops only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we 
diagnosed him but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he 
didn't need them, they were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten 
worse again.  I'm going to tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril 
for wahtever time he has left, this is the 5th time an infection has 
come back because the vet wouldn't listen to me.  He had an infection 
years ago that he kept getting back because they wouldn't leave him on 
the antibiotics longer like I requested.  Fred has a really bad time 
clearing infections and they really kick his butt so I have to be more 
forceful about that.


I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine.

Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and 
yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my 
blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!!



--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing

[jbero tds.net]

>
> Amy,


You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread.  You have a few options
available to you.  You can follow conventional advice or you can take a
chance.  From what I've seen conventional medicine does not help in this
scenario.

My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone?  The only possible
reason I can see for this is hemobartonella.  If that's not present, I fail
to see the value.  Prednisone seems to be the cure all in veterinary
medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves symptoms while your cat
dies.

I don't think you have much time to make a choice.  Unless there is a valid
reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper it)  I would be
aggressive at this point.  I would get acemannan, LTCI and I would probably
try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally would certainly
be willing to help you with it).  I would do it all together and right now.
This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I understand the
massive investment this could mean.  If, however, you simply treat symptoms
and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are simply prolonging
the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also be exceptionally
expensive.

Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so you sort of have
that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it.  The prednisone is not
raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping?  You have a non
regenerative anemia on your hands.  Unless you reverse that you're dead in
the water - prednisone will not do this.

You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I am so sorry for
that.  If you leave the beaten path of veterinary medicine you have to do
the leg work and fight an uphill battle.  Medicine is not perfect and
neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I have seem,
conventional medicine has failed time and again in this situation.

Good luck and God bless.

Jenny
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Introducing Cliff

[jbero tds.net]

>
>
>

Hey Renee

Welcome to the US.  Not a great start finding out you have a little bundle
of joy with a deadly virus.  You do have an advantage, however.  You have a
chance to fight this early.  I would not let this window of opportunity
close.

Felv cats are susceptible to secondary infections as their immune system is
not up to par.  Not only because of the virus but also because of his age.
I have a number of suggestions although I may be too late to interject.

1.  Do not vaccinate your felv cat with conventional vaccinations.  Vets may
recommend it, but don't. (You could try the alternative vaccinations if you
are concerned.)   They don't have the proper immune system to fight it.  You
put them in jeopardy of lots of other problems.  If you keep him inside away
from the possibility of picking up the viruses the vaccinations protect
against, you should be okay.

2.  Start any treatment now.  Whether that means LTCI (from imulan),
interferon, Acemannan or alternative immune boosters like high dose vitamin
C, wei qui booster etc.  Please please please start now.  Right now you are
fighting the secondary infections (the upper respiratory infections, oral
and eye infections).  You need to be more concerned about what's happening
underneath - the felv virus working it's way into all the cells of his bone
marrow leading to severe anemia, neutropenia, leukemia or lymphoma - these
things will kill him.  Granted some cats can clear the virus or simply hold
it at bay for life but some will die from it.  It's not known how to predict
who will do well and who won't so if you want to be on the safe side, treat
now.  If you start early enough sometimes you can reverse the viral status.
It may be too late now, but it may be worth trying.

3.  The acute issue of diarrhea may be secondary to antibiotic use (in which
case try a probiotic like acidophilus, you can get it at any vitamin store
or walgreens), may be a parasitic/bacterial/viral infection (bring stool
sample to vet - you don't have to bring him in for that), may be stress or
secondary to food change (change foods slowly by mixing foods, a raw diet or
high protein diet is generally considered the best for these cats), may
respresent something more serious but I would try the aforementioned first
(if there is not an explanation or improvement with the above, I would
follow with blood work (CBC - complete blood count, BMP - basic metabolic
panel, viral panel - includes feline corona virus and multiple other causes
of these types of symptoms)  I would not be idle with a felv cat that
displays symptoms of illness.

With respect to the other cat, I am happy she is negative, I would probably
retest in a few months as she also would have been exposed. Given that she
has been vaccinated and exposed without acquiring the virus you are probably
safe to mix them, but there is always a chance in this.  Younger cats are
more susceptible to acquiring and dying from the disease so it is a chance.
The vaccine is pretty good but not 100% effective.  That is decision only
you can make.  Good luck and may God bless you.

Jenny
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final

[S. Jewell]

I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful
throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them
again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the
intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV,
URI, and other cat diseases.  If I had it to do over again,
each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on
the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated,
for only then is the virus also eradicated and left
powerless to replicate or resurface.  I have also used
intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with
life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic
pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics.
She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then
antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her
symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.).
And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a
diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because
of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which
create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and
destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and
happy.  

 

As you can clearly see, the power of "vitamin" C extends
well beyond what one would expect from a "vitamin" and
according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and
reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in
veterinary medicine.  It is tragic that Belfield saw these
same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet
practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare
exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power
of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine.  But at least
those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to
you.  If you have questions or I can help any of you in any
way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this
board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net.  God bless
each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals
and hopefully this information will help you in your own
rescue work. 

 

Clinical
  Guide to
the Use of Vitamin C

 

Megascorbic
  Prophylaxis and
Megascorbic Therapy:  A New Orthomolecular Modality in
Veterinary Medicine

 

An 
Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and
Control

 

www.Belfield.com  .

 

The
  Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM

 

Sally Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final

[S. Jewell]

I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful
throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them
again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the
intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV,
URI, and other cat diseases.  If I had it to do over again,
each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on
the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated,
for only then is the virus also eradicated and left
powerless to replicate or resurface.  I have also used
intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with
life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic
pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics.
She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then
antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her
symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.).
And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a
diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because
of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which
create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and
destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and
happy.  

 

As you can clearly see, the power of "vitamin" C extends
well beyond what one would expect from a "vitamin" and
according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and
reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in
veterinary medicine.  It is tragic that Belfield saw these
same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet
practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare
exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power
of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine.  But at least
those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to
you.  If you have questions or I can help any of you in any
way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this
board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net.  God bless
each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals
and hopefully this information will help you in your own
rescue work. 

 

Clinical
  Guide to
the Use of Vitamin C

 

Megascorbic
  Prophylaxis and
Megascorbic Therapy:  A New Orthomolecular Modality in
Veterinary Medicine

 

An 
Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and
Control

 

www.Belfield.com  .

 

The
  Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM

 

Sally Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3

[S. Jewell]

Part 3

 

Angelica

 

By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and
then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were
definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track
with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough.
Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly
weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous
different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a
wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I
was not totally sure that these cats could handle even
greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses.  Then I
went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers
on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to
see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and
virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy
the virus.  I finally began to see the big picture.  We were
not using enough vitamin C.  Lukey had responded to a couple
of drips but they were not continued because we thought the
anemia was killing him.  Chuckie had responded to at least
five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his
fever first went down and we thought he was out of the
woods, though clearly he was not.  Now we have Angelica
heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and
finally, I knew what to do.  

 

Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were
both hospitalized on November 10.  Chuckie died on November
11 and Angelica was kept on the drip.  Because she had not
been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie
had received, her immune system was in better shape and we
had a better shot at saving her.  Remembering how we had
failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak
immune system, because his drips were too low, and because
the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were
titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body
weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and
though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did
fine and was kept at this level for 11 days.  Her fever
would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her
home, though each morning when I would return for her next
daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105.
This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the
7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for
the next drip.  Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that
the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers
REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with
the drips.  By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever
had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable
stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were
added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound
scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C
abruptly.  To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic
and has made her way back to baseline and beyond.  She plays
with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate
enough to avoid the FIP.  She eats like a pig and is getting
both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing
vitamin C.  Though each morning I remember the scenario with
poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's
little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace
and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with
each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus.  

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3

[S. Jewell]

Part 3

 

Angelica

 

By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and
then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were
definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track
with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough.
Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly
weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous
different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a
wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I
was not totally sure that these cats could handle even
greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses.  Then I
went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers
on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to
see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and
virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy
the virus.  I finally began to see the big picture.  We were
not using enough vitamin C.  Lukey had responded to a couple
of drips but they were not continued because we thought the
anemia was killing him.  Chuckie had responded to at least
five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his
fever first went down and we thought he was out of the
woods, though clearly he was not.  Now we have Angelica
heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and
finally, I knew what to do.  

 

Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were
both hospitalized on November 10.  Chuckie died on November
11 and Angelica was kept on the drip.  Because she had not
been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie
had received, her immune system was in better shape and we
had a better shot at saving her.  Remembering how we had
failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak
immune system, because his drips were too low, and because
the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were
titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body
weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and
though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did
fine and was kept at this level for 11 days.  Her fever
would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her
home, though each morning when I would return for her next
daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105.
This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the
7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for
the next drip.  Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that
the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers
REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with
the drips.  By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever
had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable
stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were
added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound
scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C
abruptly.  To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic
and has made her way back to baseline and beyond.  She plays
with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate
enough to avoid the FIP.  She eats like a pig and is getting
both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing
vitamin C.  Though each morning I remember the scenario with
poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's
little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace
and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with
each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus.  

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2

[S. Jewell]

Part 2

 

Chuckie

 

The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica,  were altered and
received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009.
(Note, again, Lukey died on October 1).  On October 8 the
kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still
asymptomatic at that time.  About 12-15 days later one of
the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and
stopped eating just as Lukey had done.  Between October 20
and October 31, despite extended vet visits,
hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild
anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA,
PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures,
x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one
specialist, the diagnosis remained "fever of unknown origin"
and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of
antibiotics and steroids.  Still thinking that his illness
was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught
that the conventional approach was failing and his condition
declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a
week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used
for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with
lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his
original diagnosis).  We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip
that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had
used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and
evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better
with his fever down.  Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on
Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier
hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's
office would be closed over the weekend.  He still seemed
better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking
around with me.  By the time the vet opened again on
Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was
critical, with severe neurological involvement including
ataxia and head tremors.  He was hospitalized that day and
the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was
now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my
cats to exhibit this illness).   More blood was drawn from
Chuckie and sent for analysis.  Where he had previously been
negative across the board on all test results numerous times
except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned
with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for
dry FIP.  He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic
exam including granulomas.  Chuckie was so very sick on the
day that these positive test results returned and clearly
dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him.
At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica
have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA
money that we received from the flooding, we would have been
in tremendous debt.  Meanwhile, Angelica is still
hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with
identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic
involvement.  

 

Continued in next post . . .   

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2

[S. Jewell]

Part 2

 

Chuckie

 

The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica,  were altered and
received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009.
(Note, again, Lukey died on October 1).  On October 8 the
kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still
asymptomatic at that time.  About 12-15 days later one of
the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and
stopped eating just as Lukey had done.  Between October 20
and October 31, despite extended vet visits,
hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild
anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA,
PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures,
x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one
specialist, the diagnosis remained "fever of unknown origin"
and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of
antibiotics and steroids.  Still thinking that his illness
was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught
that the conventional approach was failing and his condition
declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a
week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used
for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with
lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his
original diagnosis).  We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip
that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had
used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and
evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better
with his fever down.  Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on
Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier
hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's
office would be closed over the weekend.  He still seemed
better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking
around with me.  By the time the vet opened again on
Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was
critical, with severe neurological involvement including
ataxia and head tremors.  He was hospitalized that day and
the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was
now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my
cats to exhibit this illness).   More blood was drawn from
Chuckie and sent for analysis.  Where he had previously been
negative across the board on all test results numerous times
except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned
with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for
dry FIP.  He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic
exam including granulomas.  Chuckie was so very sick on the
day that these positive test results returned and clearly
dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him.
At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica
have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA
money that we received from the flooding, we would have been
in tremendous debt.  Meanwhile, Angelica is still
hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with
identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic
involvement.  

 

Continued in next post . . .   

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP

[S. Jewell]

A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw
in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid
and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit
of sadness.  I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments
and in an effort to provide more details about what happened
and help you see the timeline, I submit the following
histories.  Note:  This will be in two parts because of
length limits.  

 

Lukey

 

1.  My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now
believe was FIP.  He had been healthy and given the best
supplements, diet and care possible.  When his furnished
garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate
the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while
we recovered from the flooding.  The stress of the ordeal
triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was
thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease.
I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the
least of which is because his chronic high fevers,
inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks
and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and
blood transfusion and his anemia was improving.  At that
time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have
been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation.
Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips
(the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey
died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even
then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP.
However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of
the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his
intestines felt "gummy" and she realized that we had
probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it.  Had
I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned
after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey
on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by
Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible
dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the
drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after
that.  We just didn't know what we were dealing with.  

 

During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing
everything possible to save him and his care was very "hands
on."  Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage
and use it faithfully before coming back into the house
among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried
FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant
contact and syringe feeding of Lukey.  Again, keep in mind
that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP.
In the household were three young kittens who were pulled
from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before
they were scheduled to be PTS.  At the time of Lukey's first
symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP,
the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old.  

 

 

Continued in next post . .

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP

[S. Jewell]

A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw
in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid
and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit
of sadness.  I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments
and in an effort to provide more details about what happened
and help you see the timeline, I submit the following
histories.  Note:  This will be in two parts because of
length limits.  

 

Lukey

 

1.  My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now
believe was FIP.  He had been healthy and given the best
supplements, diet and care possible.  When his furnished
garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate
the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while
we recovered from the flooding.  The stress of the ordeal
triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was
thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease.
I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the
least of which is because his chronic high fevers,
inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks
and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and
blood transfusion and his anemia was improving.  At that
time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have
been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation.
Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips
(the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey
died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even
then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP.
However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of
the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his
intestines felt "gummy" and she realized that we had
probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it.  Had
I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned
after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey
on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by
Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible
dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the
drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after
that.  We just didn't know what we were dealing with.  

 

During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing
everything possible to save him and his care was very "hands
on."  Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage
and use it faithfully before coming back into the house
among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried
FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant
contact and syringe feeding of Lukey.  Again, keep in mind
that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP.
In the household were three young kittens who were pulled
from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before
they were scheduled to be PTS.  At the time of Lukey's first
symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP,
the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old.  

 

 

Continued in next post . .

 

 

 

Sally Snyder Jewell

Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director

Tower Laboratories Corporation

www.HeartTech.com

1-877-TOWER-LABS

Practicing Medicine Without
  a License?
The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by
Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell

 

 

 

 

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten

[Gloria B. Lane]

Good points.  We've just learned so much skepticism about everything  
FIP.


I'm wondering also - how do you get a vet to do something different -  
like a vitamin C drip?  I know one vet who would and could do that,  
I'm pretty sure  - but she's 60 miles away, and I have trouble finding  
free time to do drive away for a day..  Guess I just have to look  
around some more locally.


Gloria



On Nov 25, 2009, at 9:33 AM, jbero tds.net wrote:


I think you all have valid points.  Here are my thoughts.

1.  Overdiagnosis of FIP - this is way hard to estimate because the
diagnosis is difficult to come by.  In fact, the pathophysiology of  
the
disease is poorly understood so it may actually represent a  
constellation of
diseases.   In the end, however, the question is treatment.  I think  
it is
foolish to give a diagnosis of FIP if you are simply going to give  
up and
put the animal down.  If, however, you have no other explanation and  
the

clinical signs are highly suspicious then you have to look at the
possibility that it is.  That's what I see happened in this case.   
Given
that, what are you going to do.  You have no other explanation, so  
how do
you treat, do you wait until they die and do an autopsy to prove  
it's FIP or

do you try something.  I would try something.

2.  Skepticism - I understand skepticism because I have tried and  
failed on
more than one occassion with difficult viral diseases in cats.  I  
really get
that.   What I do not understand (and if someone can enlighten me, I  
would

be open to it) is how someone can see an animal suspected to have FIP,
treated successfully and then say it was not FIP.  How does one know  
that,

how does one know that they did not successfully treat the
disease?  If someone says the only way to truely diagnose is by  
autopsy and
the cat survived, prove to me they did not have FIP.  If someone is  
saying
it's not FIP only on the basis that the cat survived, well that's a  
useless
statement to me.  The skepticism works both ways - you can be  
skeptical it

wasn't or skeptical it was.  But in the end the difference is the
treatment.  I know it's not perfect science but medicine never is.

So if you have tested for a number of common diseases, and all but the
coronavirus were negative; there was a familial association, recent  
history

of stress (spay, neuter, vaccination) in a young cat, and clinical
signs/symptoms of the disease - short of putting the animal down and  
doing

an autopsy, you've got a good of a diagnosis as you can get.

3.  Medicine in general - Medicine is truely an art.  Every  
individual is
different.  Every individual responds differently to life, stress,  
disease

and treatment.  Simply because a treatment works on one animal and not
another does not mean they carry a different diagnosis.  Especially  
in an
immune related disease.  The spectrum of disease presentation can be  
broad
and the spectrum of response to treatment can be equally as broad.   
Does
that mean we don't try?  I don't think so.  We all fail, it's  
whether or not

we get back up and try again that determines our character.  High dose
Vitamin C appears to work for some (and there is a good scientific  
basis for
why if you look into close enough) maybe not for all, but at the  
very least,

it is an option where there are so few.

I respect all you for your dedication to understanding, treating and
erradicating the diseases that plague these animals.  I know we are  
all
trying to do what's best for them.  We each may have a different  
approach
but I am glad to know there are people like all of you with such a  
desire

and passion to help.  I have learned from all of you.  God bless.

Jenny

On 11/24/09, Gloria B. Lane  wrote:


I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is  
that
some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or  
anything with
a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a  
better word.
I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery,  
a few
years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP.   I think the vet  
and his
assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after  
surgery, after

they put her back in the cage.

Gloria



On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote:

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make  
one point
-- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with  
the
knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if  
this is a
dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of  
coronavirus
alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have  
it in
their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets  
who
should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths  
that I
thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate  
into FIP

is
a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a  
sh-tt