[Flightgear-devel] the new telnet server
The new telnet server has really become nice. It's great to be able to connect more than just once. :-) But I don't like the new commands: view set n display view 'n' view get return current view index view current return current view index Why bloat the interface when this can easily be done with the normal set and get commands? view current is not even consistent. It gets a simple value. This should be: get /sim/view/current or something like that. Comments in the telnet.cxx file leave me even more worried: * TODO: possible future commands: * panel visible 0|1 * panel height - h, Retrieve panel height * panel width - w, Retrieve panel width * panel xoffset - x, Retrieve panel x offset * panel yoffset - y, Retrieve panel y offset [and lots more] Please don't let that happen! Make this get /sim/panel/visible etc. There's no need for dozens of commands that do all just set and get properties. That's useless bloat and we'll lose consistency with the http interface. Don't re-invent the property system! The only thing that might make sense is: view nextdisplay next view view prevdisplay prev view But I'd rather drop them, too, and make some write only property: set /sim/view/next true would then always switch to the next view, while get /sim/view/next would always return false. m. :-( ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound problems
Jim Wilson wrote: Hope I'm not being a pest but it's been a while since the last sound patch. The gear-lock sound doesn't work on the c310. Nor do the engine[0] sounds. And the cranking is weird (very short?) on everything. I tried playing around with the xml some but didn't get any results. This is with latest everything, but the problem was there after the most recent sound patch that added conditional xml. I know. There is a strange problem there. I suspect the conditions don't work properly, but I'm not realy sure. So there needs to be some more investigation before I could fix this. I'm absolutely positive most of this worked when I sent the patches :-( I haven't come to investigate this though. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] SI vs Imperial
On Thu 16. May 2002 00:51, you wrote: ..does anyone use metric flight instruments anymore? The only ones I know of, were the WWII Luftwaffe and the Warsaw Pact Air Forces and hang-arounds, possibly also the Communist Chinese AF. AFAIK, none of these were strictly SI metric. All Instruments in czech ( yes this was the old comunist country :-) are in SI only sometimes feets for altimeter are used. I ask one pilot, and he said me that the standard will be SI-metric (at least for pressure and temperature) and feets for alt, because it gives better airspace division to FL. Madr -- Martin Dressler e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.musicabona.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
I'm sure that there exist SI aircraft panels somewhere, but I have not yet seen photos of any in general aviation. look here http://www.musicabona.com/martin/pic/tocna11.jpg Madr ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
C. Hotchkiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: David, The only place that I know of that manufactures aircraft (or at least did routinely) with SI based instrumentation was the old Soviet Union. Some of their aircraft either sold to customers, or operating outside the SU were involved in at least two mid air collisions (IIRC, between heavies in India and off western Africa). This was thought at the time to be due to confusion over unit conversion, either in the cockpit or by the ATCs involved. Maybe somebody can recall these instances with better accuracy. Either way, history condemned us to English units. At any rate, might we introduce a configuration line in the set up files that alerts the program that all following units are SI instead of English? Ditto access members that are known to report/set data members/parameters in SI instead of English unit values? This might make dealing with airframes like some of the older Russian designs a bit easier and less error prone. Maybe it would be possible to chain properties together so for example if position/altitude_ft is set then position/altitude_m also gets set. Generally though, instrumentation could be calibrated anyway for meters or mpm even if the inputs are in feet and fpm. But it requires the panel designer to do the conversion backwards to English when they write the xml. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FDMs and external atmosphere
Ralph Jones writes: It would, indeed, be nice to have a vertical velocity model for simulating soaring flight. I'm still trying to run down stability derivatives for my sailplane! It will be easy to allow you to specify up- or down-drafts for specific areas; it will be much harder to have FlightGear figure them out itself, but it might still be doable. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
C. Hotchkiss writes: The only place that I know of that manufactures aircraft (or at least did routinely) with SI based instrumentation was the old Soviet Union. Some of their aircraft either sold to customers, or operating outside the SU were involved in at least two mid air collisions (IIRC, between heavies in India and off western Africa). This was thought at the time to be due to confusion over unit conversion, either in the cockpit or by the ATCs involved. Maybe somebody can recall these instances with better accuracy. Either way, history condemned us to English units. Yes, ditto for the Gimli Glider, the Air Canada 767 that ran out of fuel at altitude and was brought down safely on a drag strip (former runway) in Gimli, Manitoba: http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html Air Canada had just switched to SI for fuel, and when the fuel gauge became U/S, the copilot took a dipstick measurement and used the wrong calculation. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Source code Documentation
Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A J) [2002.05.16 07:51]: is there any documentation for FGFS source code? if there exist any i will be glad to send me its address. FlightGear does not use a source documentation system (such as doxygen or DOC++). What documentation we have is on the website at: http://flightgear.org/Docs/ There is also some useful documentation in the source tree under the docs-mini/ directory. The simgear portion (www.simgear.org) is documented with doxygen. The JSBSim FDM does, however, use DOC++. The latest version of that is viewable at: http://jsbsim.sf.net/JSBSim/index.html See the plib site for some documentation on the plib subsystems: http://plib.sf.net/ The only other documentation we have is the comments in the code. Depending on the programmer, some code may be self-documenting. :-) If anyone has any more links or suggestions, please let me know. I'd like to add this question+answer to the FAQ. Thanks -- Cameron Moore / Every so often, I like to stick my head out the \ \ window, look up, and smile for a satellite photo. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.05.16 23:06]: Update of /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.7/FlightGear/src/Main In directory seneca:/tmp/cvs-serv26528/src/Main Modified Files: options.cxx Log Message: Bernie Bright: To make MSVC happy it appears we need backslashes on string literals spanning multiple lines. snip/ Can we get a second opinion on the changes in this file? Why on earth does MSVC bark about this: cout say endl what?! endl; I can understand this being a problem: cout say what?! ; because of the linefeeds possibly being unix linefeeds, but how is the first example broken? I'm baffled... The first example wasn't broken. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound problems
Erik Hofman writes: Jim Wilson wrote: Hope I'm not being a pest but it's been a while since the last sound patch. The gear-lock sound doesn't work on the c310. Nor do the engine[0] sounds. And the cranking is weird (very short?) on everything. I tried playing around with the xml some but didn't get any results. This is with latest everything, but the problem was there after the most recent sound patch that added conditional xml. I know. There is a strange problem there. I suspect the conditions don't work properly, but I'm not realy sure. So there needs to be some more investigation before I could fix this. I'm absolutely positive most of this worked when I sent the patches :-( I haven't come to investigate this though. Erik, For what it's worth, these patches contained Jim's issues from the start. Perhaps something in the code isn't getting initialized and you were just getting lucky on the irix platform? Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
Hello, a while ago I asked about a plotting tool of which I had seen on this mailing list that it would be integrated into FlightGear. I saw in the latest news messages that the logging was updated in version 0.7.10 of FG but I can't find anything that looks like a plotting tool. If the tool has already been implemented in 0.7.10 can somebody tell me how to use it? And if it hasn't can somebody tell me when it will be available? I'm asking this because I'm working on a project at the Delft University of Technology for which we are using FlightGear. The goal of the project is to design a system that can determine what a pilot is doing by analysing his actions and the status of the airplane. This is only possible for a computer program if we are able to do this ourselves, therefore we need to capture and plot some variables of the airplane over a period of time. We already have some programs to plot keyboard and joystick data, but we still need a tool to plot the values of some FlightGear properties. I hope you can help me. Quint Mouthaan. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
So David Megginson says: [...] ditto for the Gimli Glider, the Air Canada 767 that ran out of fuel at altitude and was brought down safely on a drag strip (former runway) in Gimli, Manitoba: http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html Air Canada had just switched to SI for fuel, and when the fuel gauge became U/S, the copilot took a dipstick measurement and used the wrong calculation. After reading this story I can't help but note another advantage of SI: easy-to-remember figures. 0 degrees celsius is where water freezes, 100 degrees is where water boils, and a liter of water weighs one kilogram. *) If the people on that 767 had known about that last one they would have instantly seen that there is no way 11,430 liters of fuel can weigh 20,400 kilograms. That would mean it's almost twice as heavy as water. Regards,- Jacco *) I know, its *mass* is a kilogram. It weighs about 9.81 Newtons. -- +-+ The time is 16:04 on Thursday May 16 2002. | IRL: Jacco van Schaik | Outside it's 21 degrees with a gentle breeze | mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | from the northwest. Inside, xmms is playing | URL: www.frontier.nl | Hurricane (Bob Dylan) by Ani Difranco. +-+ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
Quint, Here's an interesting option. Recently, I've been chatting with the author of the KFlog project (http://www.kflog.org/) I think it would be really useful and cool if we could get FlightGear interacting with KFlog. Regards, Curt. Quint Mouthaan writes: Hello, a while ago I asked about a plotting tool of which I had seen on this mailing list that it would be integrated into FlightGear. I saw in the latest news messages that the logging was updated in version 0.7.10 of FG but I can't find anything that looks like a plotting tool. If the tool has already been implemented in 0.7.10 can somebody tell me how to use it? And if it hasn't can somebody tell me when it will be available? I'm asking this because I'm working on a project at the Delft University of Technology for which we are using FlightGear. The goal of the project is to design a system that can determine what a pilot is doing by analysing his actions and the status of the airplane. This is only possible for a computer program if we are able to do this ourselves, therefore we need to capture and plot some variables of the airplane over a period of time. We already have some programs to plot keyboard and joystick data, but we still need a tool to plot the values of some FlightGear properties. I hope you can help me. Quint Mouthaan. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Thursday 16 May 2002 16:25: After reading this story I can't help but note another advantage of SI: easy-to-remember figures. 0 degrees celsius is where water freezes, 100 degrees is where water boils, and a liter of water weighs one kilogram. *) [...] *) I know, its *mass* is a kilogram. It weighs about 9.81 Newtons. ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2002.05.17 08:43]: Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.05.16 23:06]: Update of /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.7/FlightGear/src/Main In directory seneca:/tmp/cvs-serv26528/src/Main Modified Files: options.cxx Log Message: Bernie Bright: To make MSVC happy it appears we need backslashes on string literals spanning multiple lines. snip/ Can we get a second opinion on the changes in this file? Why on earth does MSVC bark about this: cout say endl what?! endl; I can understand this being a problem: cout say what?! ; because of the linefeeds possibly being unix linefeeds, but how is the first example broken? I'm baffled... The first example wasn't broken. Then I'd like to request that we revert the changes to options.cxx:fgUsage(). Is this: cout say endl what?! endl; worse than this?: cout say\n\ what?!\n; Far be it from me to argue with Bernie about anything C++, but I prefer to use the syntax we had before. I could be biased though since I wrote the previous version. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ Perl is the Cliff Notes of Unix. -- Larry Wall ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
* Melchior FRANZ -- Thursday 16 May 2002 16:35: ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- OK, OK. Degree Celsius is a so-called Derived SI Unit. :-) m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] the new telnet server and scripting
First, let me point out the new telnet server is *very* nice. Bernie has rewritten it based on the plib net libs. It can handle multiple concurrent connections. This is a big improvement! Along with this, Bernie has also provided a demo python script that shows how you can use the telnet interface to remotely interact with and control a FlightGear application. In the cvs source (run cvs update -d of course) look in $toplevel/scripts/python for the demo script. So, to try this out run: fgfs --telnet=5500 python demo.py Then watch the action. This is a demo of functionality so you aren't going to see any earth shattering visual effects. But, it's very cool from the geeky perspective of running an external script which has complete control over flightgear. Bernie, on the subjects of building additional commands into the telnet interface, I agree with Melchior. I'd rather not see the telnet interface being crammed with a bunch of extra commands that only the telnet interface knows about. I haven't looked at this in a while, but the property manager should be able to manage commands as well as values. The command management is a bit of a hack (kind of but not really) but since we can tie variables to funtions (usually getters and setters) we can expose additional functionality through the property interface. I think that would be the more appropriate way to do this and to develop additional commands. This way, these commands will be available (and consistant) for any other interface mechanisms including joystick, keyboard, mouse in addition to remote scripts or web browsers, etc. Regards, Curt. Melchior FRANZ writes: The new telnet server has really become nice. It's great to be able to connect more than just once. :-) But I don't like the new commands: view set n display view 'n' view get return current view index view current return current view index Why bloat the interface when this can easily be done with the normal set and get commands? view current is not even consistent. It gets a simple value. This should be: get /sim/view/current or something like that. Comments in the telnet.cxx file leave me even more worried: * TODO: possible future commands: * panel visible 0|1 * panel height - h, Retrieve panel height * panel width - w, Retrieve panel width * panel xoffset - x, Retrieve panel x offset * panel yoffset - y, Retrieve panel y offset [and lots more] Please don't let that happen! Make this get /sim/panel/visible etc. There's no need for dozens of commands that do all just set and get properties. That's useless bloat and we'll lose consistency with the http interface. Don't re-invent the property system! The only thing that might make sense is: view nextdisplay next view view prevdisplay prev view But I'd rather drop them, too, and make some write only property: set /sim/view/next true would then always switch to the next view, while get /sim/view/next would always return false. m. :-( ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Melchior FRANZ writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Thursday 16 May 2002 16:25: After reading this story I can't help but note another advantage of SI: easy-to-remember figures. 0 degrees celsius is where water freezes, 100 degrees is where water boils, and a liter of water weighs one kilogram. *) [...] *) I know, its *mass* is a kilogram. It weighs about 9.81 Newtons. ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2002.05.17 08:43]: Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.05.16 23:06]: Update of /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.7/FlightGear/src/Main In directory seneca:/tmp/cvs-serv26528/src/Main Modified Files: options.cxx Log Message: Bernie Bright: To make MSVC happy it appears we need backslashes on string literals spanning multiple lines. snip/ Can we get a second opinion on the changes in this file? Why on earth does MSVC bark about this: cout say endl what?! endl; I can understand this being a problem: cout say what?! ; because of the linefeeds possibly being unix linefeeds, but how is the first example broken? I'm baffled... The first example wasn't broken. Then I'd like to request that we revert the changes to options.cxx:fgUsage(). Is this: cout say endl what?! endl; worse than this?: cout say\n\ what?!\n; Far be it from me to argue with Bernie about anything C++, but I prefer to use the syntax we had before. I could be biased though since I wrote the previous version. :-) Originally this was changed to something like: cout usage: Nicely formatted text that will look exactly like it is entered here when it is displayed by the program. This is very 'pretty' to be able to do. endl; However, MSVC doesn't accept this so we are forced to at \n\ to the end of every line which starts to increase the ugliness factor again. sigh So in the end, I'm not sure which is better. They each have their pluses ... Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
On Thu, 16 May 2002 09:48:06 -0500 (CDT) Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) One of the worst things about metric, though, is the 100 minute hours - which isn't really an hour, but a hecto-moment. There are 100 days in a metric year, so the seasons are on a rotating basis. The upside is that we'll all live to be very old in metric terms. :-P Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS:FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Originally this was changed to something like: cout usage: Nicely formatted text that will look exactly like it is entered here when it is displayed by the program. This is very 'pretty' to be able to do. endl; However, MSVC doesn't accept this so we are forced to at \n\ to the end of every line which starts to increase the ugliness factor again. sigh This can be done portably using the standard string concatenation feature of the language. The above would look like the following and likely work with any reasonably modern compiler (this string concatenation feature did not exist in KR C but did beginning with early versions of ANSI C): cout usage:\n \n Nicely formatted text\n that will look\n (almost) exactly like it is entered\n here when\n \n it is displayed by the program.\n This is very 'pretty' to be able\n to do.\n; or (substantially less readable, IMHO, but more C++ like)... cout usage: endl endl Nicely formatted text endl that will look endl (kind of close to) like it is entered endl here when endl endl it is displayed by the program. endl This is very 'pretty' to be able endl to do. endl; Derrell ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
* Curtis L. Olson -- Thursday 16 May 2002 16:48: Melchior FRANZ writes: ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) There's no contradiction, as far as I see: degree comes from gradum (step) and is unit-less, like percent. Only degree Celsius is a unit. m. :-) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Jon S Berndt wrote: On Thu, 16 May 2002 09:48:06 -0500 (CDT) Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... and the SI unit for temperature is Kelvin, no? :- So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) One of the worst things about metric, though, is the 100 minute hours - which isn't really an hour, but a hecto-moment. There are 100 days in a metric year, so the seasons are on a rotating basis. The upside is that we'll all live to be very old in metric terms. Sorry, but you didn't understand Metric. They come in 1000. So 1 Millenium = 1 000 Years = 1 000 000 Months = 1 000 000 000 Days = 1 000 000 000 000 Hours = 1 000 000 000 000 000 Seconds = 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 milli seconds ;-) So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? There's no unit for direction/heading. There's no need for it. There's also no unit for pendulum/not-beeing-in-the-middle. What you need is a normative direction (e.g. noth) and an angle to it. That unit is 1 rad = 1 m/m = 360/2pi deg a derivate of the basic SI unit meter. (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Cameron Moore wrote: Then I'd like to request that we revert the changes to options.cxx:fgUsage(). Is this: cout say endl what?! endl; worse than this?: cout say\n\ what?!\n; Far be it from me to argue with Bernie about anything C++, but I prefer to use the syntax we had before. I could be biased though since I wrote the previous version. :-) I din't test either of those (esp. on MSVC), but I'm also in favour of the first version. CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS:FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This can be done portably using the standard string concatenation feature of the language. The above would look like the following and likely work with any reasonably modern compiler (this string concatenation feature did not exist in KR C but did beginning with early versions of ANSI C): cout usage:\n \n Nicely formatted text\n that will look\n (almost) exactly like it is entered\n here when\n \n it is displayed by the program.\n This is very 'pretty' to be able\n to do.\n; or (substantially less readable, IMHO, but more C++ like)... cout usage: endl endl Nicely formatted text endl that will look endl (kind of close to) like it is entered endl here when endl endl it is displayed by the program. endl This is very 'pretty' to be able endl to do. endl; Note: You 2nd version does *not* use the string concatenation. The 2nd version boils down to the very C++ dependant operator(operator(operator(cout, usage),endl),...); (I might have the scoping wrong, but that's not changing the idea behind it) CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) I recall reading an article several years ago in a flying mag (can't remember exactly where or when) on someone's proposal to change the number of degrees on the compass from 360 to 400. Seems they had a problem computing reciprocals using 180 ;-) The author saw the change as a minor effort to simple repaint all the runway numbers and change compass card faceplates!! Regards John W. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
John Wojnaroski writes: So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) I recall reading an article several years ago in a flying mag (can't remember exactly where or when) on someone's proposal to change the number of degrees on the compass from 360 to 400. Seems they had a problem computing reciprocals using 180 ;-) The author saw the change as a minor effort to simple repaint all the runway numbers and change compass card faceplates!! And if the automake/autoconf development team were in charge they would do it! Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
John Wojnaroski wrote: So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) I recall reading an article several years ago in a flying mag (can't remember exactly where or when) on someone's proposal to change the number of degrees on the compass from 360 to 400. Seems they had a problem computing reciprocals using 180 ;-) The author saw the change as a minor effort to simple repaint all the runway numbers and change compass card faceplates!! You are talking here about a gon wich is defines as 1 gon = pi/200 rad I've heard that those are used for measuring the landscape. But they are as invalid for SI as deg is. And they lack the common use that deg has. So we can forget them very fast. (If someone wants to experiment with them: the standard Casio calculators can be switched into that mode for the trig functions... I think it's called gra on them) CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS:FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Christian Mayer wrote: Note: You 2nd version does *not* use the string concatenation. The 2nd version boils down to the very C++ dependant operator(operator(operator(cout, usage),endl),...); Yes, it does. What point are you trying to make by saying very C++ dependant? Nearly all of FlightGear depends on C++. That syntax is the first thing taught in any book on C++, and is just as suitable for use by experts as by beginners. - Julian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
John Wojnaroski wrote: I recall reading an article several years ago in a flying mag (can't remember exactly where or when) on someone's proposal to change the number of degrees on the compass from 360 to 400. ... Have you noticed Deg/Rad/Grad or DRG on every scientific calculator? Those are Grads. I've heard that the military use them ... but I haven't seen any evidence of it. - Julian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS:FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Julian Foad wrote: Christian Mayer wrote: Note: You 2nd version does *not* use the string concatenation. The 2nd version boils down to the very C++ dependant operator(operator(operator(cout, usage),endl),...); Yes, it does. What point are you trying to make by saying very C++ dependant? Nearly all of FlightGear depends on C++. That syntax is the first thing taught in any book on C++, and is just as suitable for use by experts as by beginners. I wanted to point out the very big (internal) differnce of the ANSI C style string1 string2 THat ends up as string1string2 in a normal array of char vs. The C++ way: cout string1 string2 wich uses the operator() method. Both are valid and have their pro and cons. But they are fundamentally different (and the later doesn't use the string concatenation), although cout string1 string2 and cout string1 string2 produce the same output. CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Cameron's time zone
Cameron, your latest e-mail message is time-stamped with: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:41:01 -0500 which means 09:41 on the 17th, local time, which is 5 hours behind UTC, which is about a day into the future. (The current time now is Thu 16 May 2002 16:38 UTC.) - Julian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Christian said: (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) Yes they are ... each country's definition depends on local climate and fauna, ranging from one gram, through one ounce to as high as one pound. I don't know of a slug being one kilogram but wouldn't be especially surprised. 8-) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Alex Perry wrote: Christian said: (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) Yes they are ... each country's definition depends on local climate and fauna, ranging from one gram, through one ounce to as high as one pound. I don't know of a slug being one kilogram but wouldn't be especially surprised. If you go back to the middle ages: that's true. And it was even worse as each town had its own measurements (and sometimes names; feet is one of the more common ones). But: today it's different. The majority of all countries settled on the SI system. CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
My fault partially, sorry. a while ago I asked about a plotting tool of which I had seen on this mailing list that it would be integrated into FlightGear. I saw in the latest news messages that the logging was updated in version 0.7.10 of FG but I can't find anything that looks like a plotting tool. If the tool has already been implemented in 0.7.10 can somebody tell me how to use it? And if it hasn't can somebody tell me when it will be available? Err, how busy are you ? I have a snapshot of contributed code, hoping to convert to PLIB but haven't had the time yet. Instead, I've found myself doing GPL verilog development. In the short term, I'm using patched XOSCOPE http://candetect.sourceforge.net/ but it has severe limitations on dynamic range and number of channels. I'm asking this because I'm working on a project at the Delft University of Technology for which we are using FlightGear. The goal of the project is to design a system that can determine what a pilot is doing by analysing his actions and the status of the airplane. This is only possible for a computer program if we are able to do this ourselves, therefore we need to capture and plot some variables of the airplane over a period of time. Actually storing the data to file is already supported in FGFS, I believe. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Curtis L. Olson wrote: So what is the SI unit for direction/heading? Certainly they wouldn't overload unit names, right? :-) Oooh, here's a good one! There *are* no unit names for angles. Angles are unitless numbers. So to be strict, the SI unit for heading must be the radian. :) FWIW, angles and computers don't mix well (tan(90) == Inf and all that). YASim does all its math in cartesian space, and converts to angles only at the output stage. Here's one such bug I discovered recently: turn on the HUD, and enter a steady turn. When your heading gets near 0 or 180, the pitch ladder just disappears. Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS:FlightGear/src/Main options.cxx,1.162,1.163
Christian Mayer wrote: I wanted to point out the very big (internal) differnce of the ANSI C style string1 string2 THat ends up as string1string2 in a normal array of char vs. The C++ way: cout string1 string2 wich uses the operator() method. Both are valid and have their pro and cons. But they are fundamentally different (and the later doesn't use the string concatenation), although Yes, fair enough. It does seem a bit of a waste to have a separate function called. I think part of the reason for the existence of endl is this: If endl were enforced as the only legal way (i.e. if \n was made illegal in a future version of C++) then the string outputting functions would no longer have to scan for '\n' in the text that they output. Presently, each time they find '\n' they generally flush the stream output buffer, as well as to converting it to the local line ending character(s) where necessary. - Julian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
On Thu, 16 May 2002 18:46:16 +0200 Christian Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian said: (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) Alex responded: Yes they are ... each country's definition depends on local climate and fauna, ranging from one gram, through one ounce to as high as one pound. I don't know of a slug being one kilogram but wouldn't be especially surprised. Christian replied, obliviously: If you go back to the middle ages: that's true. And it was even worse as each town had its own measurements (and sometimes names; feet is one of the more common ones). Jon replies: would it help to say that a one kilogram slug with salt sprinkled on it and allowed to sit in the sunlight for a day will be considerably less than one kilogram at the end of that day. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cameron's time zone
Alex Perry wrote: Cameron, your latest e-mail message is time-stamped with: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:41:01 -0500 which means 09:41 on the 17th, local time, which is 5 hours behind UTC, which is about a day into the future. Don;t worry about it; Cameron just likes to have his messages at the top of your in-box. That way you get around to reading them somewhat earlier. Actually I read my messages in chronological order, so I get to his last! No, wait ... I won't get to read his messages until tomorrow :) (The current time now is Thu 16 May 2002 16:38 UTC.) No, it isn't ... not any more. :) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
On Thu, 16 May 2002 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Alex Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually storing the data to file is already supported in FGFS, I believe. FWIW, JSBSim logs its FDM data in a configurable manner. See the bottom of the X-15 config file, for isntance, as well as FGOutput.c|h. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
* Julian Foad -- Thursday 16 May 2002 18:27: Have you noticed Deg/Rad/Grad or DRG on every scientific calculator? Those are Grads. I've heard that the military use them ... but I haven't seen any evidence of it. Infantery and artillery use 0-6400 mil (called Strich over here), NBC also uses these and additionally 0-360 (for meteorolgy issues). I don't know if we are anywhere using 0-400, but it may well be.:-) Cpt. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Christian Mayer wrote: (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) Actually, there's a very good reason why we use a 360 degree circle. This number has loads of small integer divisors. What's the inner angle between the walls of a 4-sided room? 90 degrees, of course. You can do it in your head for 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, ... In the days before calculators, this was really important. This same logic is why we have 60 minutes per hour and 24 hours per day. It might make more logical sense (well, to species with 10 digits on their hands) to use 100 and 10, perhaps, but try dividing those into three parts. Dolly Parton would have had a hard time making Workin' 4:33:33 to 7:33:33 into a hit song. Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: FlightGear/src/Mainoptions.cxx,1.162,1.163
So in the end, I'm not sure which is better. They each have their pluses ... Lets move it over to an XML file ... Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FDMs and external atmosphere
David Megginson wrote: Ralph Jones writes: It would, indeed, be nice to have a vertical velocity model for simulating soaring flight. I'm still trying to run down stability derivatives for my sailplane! It will be easy to allow you to specify up- or down-drafts for specific areas; it will be much harder to have FlightGear figure them out itself, but it might still be doable. Doing this right, of course, is a job for 2000 CPU supercomputers. But it might be OK for use to cheat a little. How about this: Look at the wind over ground at the current location. Calculate the up- or down-slope of the ground in that direction. Figure out an up or downdraft based on the amount of air that must be vertically displaced. Look at the amount of sunlight falling on the ground, maybe combined with an albedo value based on the terrain type and a cloud layer effect for shadow. This gives you a heat flux. Combine that with the air temperature on the ground to figure out how much air needs to be flowing upward to carry this heat away (this is going to require some hand waving about the uplift velocity as a function of temperature difference). This number should add to the turbulence as well. This won't take into account a whole range of second-order effects, like nearby mountain ridges, etc... But it might match reasonably well to a sailplane pilots intuition about where the updrafts should be. Not being a sailplane pilot, I couldn't say. :) Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Here's an interesting option. Recently, I've been chatting with the author of the KFlog project (http://www.kflog.org/) What an unfortunate name. Am I the only one who read that and thought Hm... I wouldn't really have though KDE needed a flogging application on the desktop. Andy -- Andrew J. RossNextBus Information Systems Senior Software Engineer Emeryville, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nextbus.com Men go crazy in conflagrations. They only get better one by one. - Sting (misquoted) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
David Megginson wrote: C. Hotchkiss writes: The only place... Maybe somebody can recall these instances with better accuracy. Either way, history condemned us to English units. Yes, ditto for the Gimli Glider, the Air Canada 767 that ran out of fuel at altitude and was brought down safely on a drag strip (former runway) in Gimli, Manitoba: Ah, yes. I recall that now. A very interesting incident. Amusing that a low tech solution like dip sticks is still being used. Also instructive to efforts to convert the aircraft industry over to SI. It should be done, but with great care. Regards, Charlie H. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] plotting/logging tool
Alex Perry writes: Actually storing the data to file is already supported in FGFS, I believe. Yes, it is. See docs-mini/README.logging in the FlightGear source distribution. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cameron's time zone
Alex Perry writes: Cameron, your latest e-mail message is time-stamped with: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:41:01 -0500 which means 09:41 on the 17th, local time, which is 5 hours behind UTC, which is about a day into the future. Don;t worry about it; Cameron just likes to have his messages at the top of your in-box. That way you get around to reading them somewhat earlier. (The current time now is Thu 16 May 2002 16:38 UTC.) No, it isn't ... not any more. I think Cameron is using SI units for time. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
C. Hotchkiss writes: Ah, yes. I recall that now. A very interesting incident. Amusing that a low tech solution like dip sticks is still being used. Also instructive to efforts to convert the aircraft industry over to SI. It should be done, but with great care. Yes, I agree, on both points. Right now, it's impossible to imagine any way of converting where there wouldn't be a decade or two of mismatches, and ATC would have to give bilinear clearances: Papa Mike Romeo maintain altitude 1600 feet 500 meters until 2 miles 3 kilometers south of the field. Reduce speed to 80 knots 150 kilometers per hour. Yech. (By the way, in Ontario [at least] we abbreviate kilometers per hour to clicks, i.e. You won't average better than 70 or 80 clicks with all the construction. I wonder if that will ever become standard usage anywhere else.) The opportunity might come, though, when general aviation converts from pitot-static and gyro instruments and analog VHF communication to fully digital GPS-driven instruments and digital satellite communication. I'll guess that will happen in 10-15 years (i.e. GPS receiver and satellite comm link will be required for flight in any controlled airspace). Making the GPS display into the primary flight instrument will make it much easier to switch to SI, and ATC clearances coming digitally over a satellite link can be converted automatically to any units. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Environment subsystem status
Andy Ross wrote: Christian Mayer wrote: (Note: degrees are still valid as they are *internationally* well known. slugs aren't) Actually, there's a very good reason why we use a 360 degree circle. This number has loads of small integer divisors. ...In the days before calculators, this was really important. This same logic is why we have 60 minutes per hour and 24 hours per day. IIRC, 360 degrees is Babylonian in origin. For some reason multiples of 12 and the number 360 was very important to them. The multiple integer relationships not being a bad thought about why. Twelve also shows up strongly as an important number not only for them, but, for those familiar with the Bible, the ancient Hebrews as well - possibly by association. For example, in Jewish numerology, 3 stands for God, 4 for Heaven and 12 (3 x 4) for God in Heaven. (Don't ask why - I haven't a clue.) Imperial units also have an interesting relationship to some of the units used by the Egyptians. They used a foot of very close to 300 mm (11.8 inches) and the cubit of 450 mm (17.7 inches). The Romans, for some reason changed the latter to 16. Lacking an easy to define base standard, the problem of uniform measurements was never solved until long after the French gave us the metric system based upon latitude. Finally, (under Napoleon ?) the French tried to reform the calendar and make that metric or logical as well. Even with the Committee for Public Safety available to enforce it, they couldn't get that system to catch on. Never underestimate the power of tradition. Regards, Charlie H. -- C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] [off topic] Babylonian finger counting
C. Hotchkiss writes: IIRC, 360 degrees is Babylonian in origin. For some reason multiples of 12 and the number 360 was very important to them. I read that it's how they counted on their fingers. Using your thumb, touch the top third (near the tip) of each finger for 1-4, the middle third (between the two knuckles) of each finger for 5-8, and the bottom third for 9-12. I'm not sure how they combined the second hand with that, but I think that they used only whole fingers there, giving the ability to count from 0-60 on their fingers alone. All the best, David -- David Megginson, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Environment subsystem status
David Megginson wrote: Yech. (By the way, in Ontario [at least] we abbreviate kilometers per hour to clicks, i.e. You won't average better than 70 or 80 clicks with all the construction. I wonder if that will ever become standard usage anywhere else.) I'm sure I've heard about that before (and that was definitely outside Canada). I *think* it was in the cockpit of a Singapore Airlines machine somewhere between Europe, Singapore and New Zealand. The opportunity might come, though, when general aviation converts from pitot-static and gyro instruments and analog VHF communication to fully digital GPS-driven instruments and digital satellite communication. I'll guess that will happen in 10-15 years (i.e. GPS receiver and satellite comm link will be required for flight in any controlled airspace). Making the GPS display into the primary flight instrument will make it much easier to switch to SI, and ATC clearances coming digitally over a satellite link can be converted automatically to any units. GPS won't make it to become a aviation standard (one which people trust for steering comercial planes that is). That mostly to the fact that it's too unprecise (look at it's vertical resolution and feed it to an autopilot for landing...) and that teh US military can decide which precition is aviable for everyone. But I'm sure that a satelite based system like GPS will make it. Perhaps the European Galileo. Perhaps something else. An data-link between ATC and cockpit would also increase safety as an autopilot could assume that all FL are closed unless it gets a clear via uplink. Plus other goodies CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [off topic] Babylonian finger counting
David Megginson wrote: C. Hotchkiss writes: IIRC, 360 degrees is Babylonian in origin. For some reason multiples of 12 and the number 360 was very important to them. I read that it's how they counted on their fingers. Using your thumb, touch the top third (near the tip) of each finger for 1-4, the middle third (between the two knuckles) of each finger for 5-8, and the bottom third for 9-12. I'm not sure how they combined the second hand with that, but I think that they used only whole fingers there, giving the ability to count from 0-60 on their fingers alone. Cool, I didn't know that. But we can also get a much wider range when we are counting when we use our traditional system. We only need to change from unary (1 finger, 2 fingers, ..., 5 fingers) to a binary system (little finger = 1, ring finger = 2, middle = 4, index = 8, thumb = 16) which gives us a range of 0..31 with one hand! Counting with the base 3 is also possible (0..3^5), but you have to concentrate quite hard! CU, Christian -- The idea is to die young as late as possible.-- Ashley Montague Whoever that is/was; (c) by Douglas Adams would have been better... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [off topic] Babylonian finger counting
I read that it's how they counted on their fingers. Using your thumb, touch the top third (near the tip) of each finger for 1-4, the middle third (between the two knuckles) of each finger for 5-8, and the bottom third for 9-12. I'm not sure how they combined the second hand with that, but I think that they used only whole fingers there, giving the ability to count from 0-60 on their fingers alone. I've always been told that we use base ten because we count on our fingers. This has always puzzled me; I've only got eight fingers ... and two thumbs. 8-) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Arnt's timezone
On Thu, 16 May 2002 18:17:00 +0100, Julian Foad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt, your mail clock seems to be two hours in the past. Your message which I think you wrote just a few minutes ago says Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 17:12:41 +0200 but the time now is about 17:15 UTC. ..sounds about right, I believe I wrote it a few hours ago, I'm still on metered dial-up isdn, but there is a brand new optical fibre tube leaning onto my wall... the smallest bundles laid here, have 96 fibre pairs to split between say 50 people in this block. ;-) ..the idea may be to ease a wireless isp dealership or somesuch on me, I'm setting up the local wireless guy's traffic shaping bridge, he is a Wintendo guy, also selling some asp services here, and found he needs penguin wisdom. Hmmm, I like 'Arnt's timezone'. ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cameron's time zone
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Julian Foad) [2002.05.17 11:43]: Cameron, your latest e-mail message is time-stamped with: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 09:41:01 -0500 which means 09:41 on the 17th, local time, which is 5 hours behind UTC, which is about a day into the future. (The current time now is Thu 16 May 2002 16:38 UTC.) Been meaning to fix that. Thanks for the motivation. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ Is it wrong that only one company makes a game called 'Monopoly'? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Latest MSVC Problem with options.cxx
MSVC does not like the size of the string constant in options.cxx C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1143) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1181) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1215) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated Jonathan Polley ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Latest MSVC Problem with options.cxx
Jonathan Polley writes: MSVC does not like the size of the string constant in options.cxx C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1143) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1181) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1215) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated Bernie, Maybe we need to chalk this up as a really nice idea that didn't quite work out as well as we hoped. [Darned MSVC] :-) Who wants to do the honors of reverting back to the original code? Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Latest MSVC Problem with options.cxx
I fixed the problem by breaking the option strings into logical chunks. I. e., Each major section gets its own string and print statement. While this probably is not a good long term solution, it did get me up and running. Jonathan Polley On Thursday, May 16, 2002, at 09:56 PM, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Jonathan Polley writes: MSVC does not like the size of the string constant in options.cxx C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1143) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1181) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1215) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated Bernie, Maybe we need to chalk this up as a really nice idea that didn't quite work out as well as we hoped. [Darned MSVC] :-) Who wants to do the honors of reverting back to the original code? Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson IVLab / HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Latest MSVC Problem with options.cxx
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Jonathan Polley writes: MSVC does not like the size of the string constant in options.cxx C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1143) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1181) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated C:\FlightGear\src\Main\options.cxx(1215) : error C2026: string too big, trailing characters truncated Bernie, Maybe we need to chalk this up as a really nice idea that didn't quite work out as well as we hoped. [Darned MSVC] :-) Who wants to do the honors of reverting back to the original code? I've reverted options.cxx to the previous version and am recompiling. Expect an update soon. Bernie ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
