Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
happy new year everyone.. ;-))) On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:45 AM, Scott scott.hamil...@popplanet.biz wrote: On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 02:50 +, Pedro Morgan wrote: Ok.. Then I;m in.. I'd like the idea to maintain openRadar in Java to at least build a skill set.. and get to know the code and mainly comment it..andhopefu;;y find some cool future team.. I'm a JEE developer, not a Swing developer, so if there is stuff that isn't related to the UI components, I'm happy to help. Fantastic.. Can u help with setting up a tomcat server with code onto a postgres backend.. and its spits out either jaon or xml.. and also can integrate with telnet sessions online check mpserver dns entries online and also latest chat from atc.. and bandwidth distribution... ;- If you are looking for a place to host this in gitorious (I'm not sure if it should be part of the FG repository???), I'm happy to offer and maintain it as a project under my fg-misc repository; https://gitorious.org/fg-misc Good idea... imho.. but misc is also staging etc... more below.. but I think we need fg-java project.. somehow.. My hidden motivation is to android and devices for purpose eg a TCAS Android, or a PFD .. live atc chat on mobiles and voip..and its in jvm.. so maybe we can also use some formulae in java and creation of simgear /python|java|\c|cpp|\js libs to ensure same delegation of issues.. I'm not sure what you are saying here, but android apps are written in Java and convert to Dalvik bytecode by the build process in your favourite IDE. Yes its java..as a language and understand the bytecode.. rund on my arduino.. intended for fridges.. but I am stupid. and do nto really 100% and indeed do not want to understand what goes on sometimes... Looking at my new Android Hello World is effectively Java as the lang and also looking at openradar is on my dual screen.. But effectively these are both being coded and tested and work here with my eclipse on a machine wich happens to be Ubuntu.. == even though they are not on target machines.. You build PhoneGap apps for Android with HTML, JavaScript and a little bit of Java and this is compiled to Java bytecode that is then converted to Dalvik bytecode by the build process in your favourite IDE. Are I sure... my inderstanding of phonegap is that its a webkit browser and a bridge for voice to snapshot to back button.. trapped and an internal socket... howver the way I am using it is to create html5 apps which use sencha.. a html5 toolkit.. regardlss.. it is javascript that is precompiled to bytecode.. much like python, and php.. and nasal.. sneezes.. I am very happy that javascript is like nasal or vice versa.. and is like java... However if you are going to the trouble to build a HTML version, why not just build a web app that can be deployed to any platform, you need to be online to be using the multi-player network anyway, and a web browser is more ubiquitous than any mobile device platform. Fantastic and you hit the nail on the head.. and am in total agreement, nodding my head both ways... Lets starts with Where can I get a * List of mpservers online now ? in html * Some code to detect which Mpservers online now in DNS and RL check.. a watchdog * a json feed instead of html, even xml or kml... Its all moving online.. so I guess as a developer I am looking towards somehow making that code available.. in various languages and browsers.. But its Online.. S. remainder snipped -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Hi Scott, Scott wrote: If you are looking for a place to host this in gitorious (I'm not sure if it should be part of the FG repository???) Well, I suspect the FlightGear ecosystem is still the best ground for OpenRadar to develop on, therefore hosting it alongside with FG sounds like the best idea to me to attract public interest. I'll ping James Hi James, what do you think, same procedure as with getstart, terragear-cs and sceneryweb or do you think the number of sub-projects is growing too much ? Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Ok.. Then I;m in.. I'd like the idea to maintain openRadar in Java to at least build a skill set.. and get to know the code and mainly comment it..andhopefu;;y find some cool future team.. My hidden motivation is to android and devices for purpose eg a TCAS Android, or a PFD .. live atc chat on mobiles and voip..and its in jvm.. so maybe we can also use some formulae in java and creation of simgear /python|java|\c|cpp|\js libs to ensure same delegation of issues.. So.. who can fork this to http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=openradar to gitorious.. so I can fork it.. and thats just the parallel runways... I don't like java as am unfamiliar and previous coding from a few years ago..and, is owned by oracle now, is heavy on ma system, and two flavours that dont agree sometimes.., python, php , javascipt and qt/c++ are familiar.. and looking at toolset of android for devices, browers and pyqt desktops.. Embeddig in browser apps again..and the phone gap and others... I think the first serious step we all have to take though.. cos its getting silly is to fork apt.dat and nav.dat and aero data in a seperate repositirory... unpacked.. That way we can update bits and reverse rewiend into various commits.. eg fg-2.4 version-updated-latest.. Openradar has huge outdated tarballs.. so that is first problem we have to solve... Cant we just get gitrououos/fg/xplane.git working pelase unpacked.. and maybe /810 /850 directories etc...and consistent terrasync corrected.. even knock out the new data in olde format.. and vice versa.. Pete On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Hi Geoff, Geoff McLane wrote: de.knewcleus.fgfs/src/de/knewcleus/fgfs/multiplayer/ protocol/MultiplayerPacket.java - public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1024; + public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1200; // FIX20111226 I knew there was an obvious flaw in one of the public versions, but that's been a different one :-) And I was able to create for myself another new sector.xml from the samples given, for an airport of my choice, thanks to mapserver shapefile downloads, etc... which all seemed to work well ;=)) Sounds cool ! BUT I could NOT seem to get the comms (fgcom?) working... any ideas, pointers... I never noticed a comm console in OpenRadar - and I've used it frequently in earlier days. Therefore I'm quite surprised I'll have to have a closer look these days, maybe this helps reminding the idea behind this comm console you mention. http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6t=10221 seems more interested in using Atlas as the base... OpenRadar has been designed with EUROCONTROL (the European air traffic control / safety organization) user interface standards for real life radar consoles in mind. Therefore it's a lot different from the so-called radar consoles people are familiar with in FlightGear land. Maybe *too* different :-/ http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Stand_Alone_ATC_Control_Development likewise seems to again favor Atlas... Well, I don't know what to say about that But are there other places where I can read more specifically about this java OpenRadar setup, running, operations? No, not much. The most elaborate reference so far is the source code. I know what Ralf was having in mind because we've been talking a lot about OpenRadar (which even didn't have a name until shortly before development stopped), therefore I should be able to answer questions. If you think it's worth doing so, I'd put it into a Gitorious project alongside simgear and all the other stuff, hoping that people drop a patch every now and then. One of the various nice features in OpenRadar is its abstraction layer for switching data source interfaces. Somone built a pure Java HLA compilant interface for OpenRadar, but that's never been integrated into the main source tree. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 02:50 +, Pedro Morgan wrote: Ok.. Then I;m in.. I'd like the idea to maintain openRadar in Java to at least build a skill set.. and get to know the code and mainly comment it..andhopefu;;y find some cool future team.. I'm a JEE developer, not a Swing developer, so if there is stuff that isn't related to the UI components, I'm happy to help. If you are looking for a place to host this in gitorious (I'm not sure if it should be part of the FG repository???), I'm happy to offer and maintain it as a project under my fg-misc repository; https://gitorious.org/fg-misc My hidden motivation is to android and devices for purpose eg a TCAS Android, or a PFD .. live atc chat on mobiles and voip..and its in jvm.. so maybe we can also use some formulae in java and creation of simgear /python|java|\c|cpp|\js libs to ensure same delegation of issues.. I'm not sure what you are saying here, but android apps are written in Java and convert to Dalvik bytecode by the build process in your favourite IDE. You build PhoneGap apps for Android with HTML, JavaScript and a little bit of Java and this is compiled to Java bytecode that is then converted to Dalvik bytecode by the build process in your favourite IDE. However if you are going to the trouble to build a HTML version, why not just build a web app that can be deployed to any platform, you need to be online to be using the multi-player network anyway, and a web browser is more ubiquitous than any mobile device platform. S. remainder snipped -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Sun, 2011-12-25 at 09:27 +, Martin Spott wrote: Pedro Morgan wrote: What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We have OpenRadar, Martin. Hi Martin, Hm, quite, quite interesting ;=)) After setting up openjdk-6-jre, and Eclipse, found one small fix needed to avoid multiple mp server packet rejection - in - de.knewcleus.fgfs/src/de/knewcleus/fgfs/multiplayer/ protocol/MultiplayerPacket.java - public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1024; + public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1200; // FIX20111226 This is the current max. size from a recent - FG/src/MultiPlayer/multiplaymgr.cxx With this fix it seemed to handle well the mpserver link, packet exchange, etc, and graphically added current aircraft, showing callsign and a nice predicted forward track... And I was able to create for myself another new sector.xml from the samples given, for an airport of my choice, thanks to mapserver shapefile downloads, etc... which all seemed to work well ;=)) BUT I could NOT seem to get the comms (fgcom?) working... any ideas, pointers... It has a small 'FGCOMM console' window accepting an active and standby frequency, but this does not seem to do anything... it seems nothing is done with the entered 'active' frequency... From our newsletter I can see OpenRadar is in need of a new 'maintainer'... and I can see the source is littered with at least 16 'TODO' comments... And at first glance, the FGCOMM code seems far too minimal, but there are no 'TODO' in this area... but I can not find any code to make it work... Has anybody ever had this OpenRadar comms code working? Tried - http://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenRadar - stunningly brief ;=(( http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6t=10221 seems more interested in using Atlas as the base... http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Stand_Alone_ATC_Control_Development likewise seems to again favor Atlas... But are there other places where I can read more specifically about this java OpenRadar setup, running, operations? Or is it ALL only in the actual java code? It does not seem to have any 'README' files, just some 215 java sources... Regards, Geoff. -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Hi Geoff, Geoff McLane wrote: de.knewcleus.fgfs/src/de/knewcleus/fgfs/multiplayer/ protocol/MultiplayerPacket.java - public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1024; + public static final int MAX_PACKET_SIZE=1200; // FIX20111226 I knew there was an obvious flaw in one of the public versions, but that's been a different one :-) And I was able to create for myself another new sector.xml from the samples given, for an airport of my choice, thanks to mapserver shapefile downloads, etc... which all seemed to work well ;=)) Sounds cool ! BUT I could NOT seem to get the comms (fgcom?) working... any ideas, pointers... I never noticed a comm console in OpenRadar - and I've used it frequently in earlier days. Therefore I'm quite surprised I'll have to have a closer look these days, maybe this helps reminding the idea behind this comm console you mention. http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6t=10221 seems more interested in using Atlas as the base... OpenRadar has been designed with EUROCONTROL (the European air traffic control / safety organization) user interface standards for real life radar consoles in mind. Therefore it's a lot different from the so-called radar consoles people are familiar with in FlightGear land. Maybe *too* different :-/ http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Stand_Alone_ATC_Control_Development likewise seems to again favor Atlas... Well, I don't know what to say about that But are there other places where I can read more specifically about this java OpenRadar setup, running, operations? No, not much. The most elaborate reference so far is the source code. I know what Ralf was having in mind because we've been talking a lot about OpenRadar (which even didn't have a name until shortly before development stopped), therefore I should be able to answer questions. If you think it's worth doing so, I'd put it into a Gitorious project alongside simgear and all the other stuff, hoping that people drop a patch every now and then. One of the various nice features in OpenRadar is its abstraction layer for switching data source interfaces. Somone built a pure Java HLA compilant interface for OpenRadar, but that's never been integrated into the main source tree. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Am 25.12.11 15:52, schrieb Csaba Halász: At times, we had 2 servers but only one active with manual switching when necessary. That means there is no load balancing among multiple servers. In case anybody wants to volunteer maintaining a backup server, I am sure we can collect the knowledge required to set it up and fill in the holes in the wiki. I'd like to thank all the people who keep fgcom alive behind the scenes, in particular Charles, Jon, Thomas, Willie and of course Holger for creating it. Hi Csaba Fill in the last hole in the wiki about fgcom.inc would be nice. I am running an asterisk server and tried to run a fgcom testing server for my own purposes some months ago, but had to stop because of the last missing part in the wiki. Of course I can try to set up this looking what fgcom.inc should be, but when an running example configuration is around, much appreciated here, then I can finish my personal experiment once. I have no time to multiplay FlightGear that much, and personally it is not that important for me. I wrote my sentence about the only one because there were some suggestions around it is easy to setup a own ggcom server. So of course, my thanks goes everytime to people behind the scenes and to what they bring to me ! I declare this to my personal christmas wish, a fgcom.inc example. ;-) Hope it is not late! Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
We need an Winstaller ...and a dead reckno0re.. machine.. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:43 PM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Am 25.12.11 15:52, schrieb Csaba Halász: At times, we had 2 servers but only one active with manual switching when necessary. That means there is no load balancing among multiple servers. In case anybody wants to volunteer maintaining a backup server, I am sure we can collect the knowledge required to set it up and fill in the holes in the wiki. I'd like to thank all the people who keep fgcom alive behind the scenes, in particular Charles, Jon, Thomas, Willie and of course Holger for creating it. Hi Csaba Fill in the last hole in the wiki about fgcom.inc would be nice. I am running an asterisk server and tried to run a fgcom testing server for my own purposes some months ago, but had to stop because of the last missing part in the wiki. Of course I can try to set up this looking what fgcom.inc should be, but when an running example configuration is around, much appreciated here, then I can finish my personal experiment once. I have no time to multiplay FlightGear that much, and personally it is not that important for me. I wrote my sentence about the only one because there were some suggestions around it is easy to setup a own ggcom server. So of course, my thanks goes everytime to people behind the scenes and to what they bring to me ! I declare this to my personal christmas wish, a fgcom.inc example. ;-) Hope it is not late! Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Martin Spott wrote: There are different ways to prevent a service outage. Setting up a second machine is just one of various different methods and you're well-advices to have a precise look at the bigger picture, evaluate the benefit against the drawbacks before advocating a certain method. The blunt let's have a second machine-approach might carry more suprises than you probably think at first. As it happens, this is an area where I've got quite a lot of professional experience. I don't think we have any requirement for additional scalability/capacity at this point - I'm fairly certain that a single server has no problem handling the peak load for FGCom. There's not much latency benefit from having a local FGCOM server if you're in a global MP environment and communicating with someone on the other side of the world (though there's more if the other party is local as well). However, we're talking about carefully worded radio comms - this isn't something for people to use instead of Skype. A second or so latency isn't the end of the world. Therefore the only argument for having anything other than a single server is for resiliency. Having multiple interconnected live servers doesn't buy us anything other than additional opportunities for the servers to lose connections with each other or suffer hardware faults. The probability of the server that _you_ connect to going down is the same as if there was a global server, and there's the additional probability that the server that someone else you are communicating going down. So, really, you just want a live server with some sort of backup. Fortunately no data needs to be stored/shared as the state information is minimal, as channels are created and torn down on connection. If we were feeling particularly keen, one might want to have a hot standby, and some shared global IP address that can be swapped. However, to do that properly requires a very reliably private network for the liveness checking between the servers, and to be honest is way more than we need. If we feel there's significant hardware failure risk, my recommendation would simply be to have a cold backup, and use a manual process to update DNS in the case of failure. -Stuart -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Pedro Morgan wrote: What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We have OpenRadar, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
HB-GRAL wrote: Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn?t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. One FGcom server != one radio station Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
HB-GRAL wrote: Yes, right, mutiple stations. FGCom server down, all radio stations down. One FGcom server up, all radio stations up :-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On 25 December 2011 22:39, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: HB-GRAL wrote: Yes, right, mutiple stations. FGCom server down, all radio stations down. One FGcom server up, all radio stations up :-) Which doesn't mitigate the single point of failure. :-P Regards George -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Sun, 2011-12-25 at 02:05 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: Am 25.12.11 01:59, schrieb Hal V. Engel: You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Hi Hal Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn’t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. Cheers, Yves Hi Yves, Assume you have read this - http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:_Set_up_a_FGCom_server While it says a lot about installing Libpri, DAHDI, and Asterisk it does seem a little light on exactly how to set up an IP like - fgcom.flightgear.org.uk:16661 - when running an asterisk server... It mentions using fgcom.inc when configuring the asterisk server, but I can not seem to find the contents of this fgcom.inc file ;=(( although the content of several other 'configuration' files are given... And the fgcom svn source has some configuration building perl scripts in the 'server' folder, but none of these seem to create a fgcom.inc file... The wiki ends with the words - Generation details to follow ... I guess you have to understand LOTS more about running an asterisk server, As their about page says - Asterisk is like an erector set or a box of Legos for people who want to create communications applications It would certainly be nice to have a 2nd, or more, servers, like say fgcom.fgx.ch:16661, or on any other port, that can be used with the fgcom client, or in the fgcomgui... Then we would not be dependent on just one IP ;=)) Although I must say I have never yet found the above IP down... And then there would be the question of how such multiple fgcom (asterisk) servers interact, such that even if I configure using say 'ch' I can still 'speak' to pilots using the 'uk' server... etc... another can of worms ;=)) Regards, Geoff. -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Geoff McLane ubu...@geoffair.info wrote: It would certainly be nice to have a 2nd, or more, servers, like say fgcom.fgx.ch:16661, or on any other port, that can be used with the fgcom client, or in the fgcomgui... Then we would not be dependent on just one IP ;=)) Although I must say I have never yet found the above IP down... And then there would be the question of how such multiple fgcom (asterisk) servers interact, such that even if I configure using say 'ch' I can still 'speak' to pilots using the 'uk' server... etc... another can of worms ;=)) At times, we had 2 servers but only one active with manual switching when necessary. That means there is no load balancing among multiple servers. In case anybody wants to volunteer maintaining a backup server, I am sure we can collect the knowledge required to set it up and fill in the holes in the wiki. I'd like to thank all the people who keep fgcom alive behind the scenes, in particular Charles, Jon, Thomas, Willie and of course Holger for creating it. -- Cheers, Csaba/Jester -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
George Patterson wrote: On 25 December 2011 22:39, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: HB-GRAL wrote: Yes, right, mutiple stations. FGCom server down, all radio stations down. One FGcom server up, all radio stations up :-) Which doesn't mitigate the single point of failure. :-P There are different ways to prevent a service outage. Setting up a second machine is just one of various different methods and you're well-advices to have a precise look at the bigger picture, evaluate the benefit against the drawbacks before advocating a certain method. The blunt let's have a second machine-approach might carry more suprises than you probably think at first. Have fun, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Friday, December 23, 2011 06:22:35 PM Pedro Morgan wrote: Is there a way we can work towards a more accessible multiplayer enviroment for next year + snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. snip Hal -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Ok here's the scenario.. I'm a kid and taken off in a 747 and need some real world kinda help to land for teens... Problem with FG is that it needs to simulate a bit more.. and not be a long winded things snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. Indeed 1000% of above... agreed.. problem is that I want to control the kids downstairs and do do that I can use any comms system I want.. eg holding nose and saying in ATc voice.. down a toilet roll.. Turn left heading 295 .. decend and maintain 30 ft ,... etc.. At the end of the day its a VOIP server.. and is it peer to peer.. We need to get into the peer to peer and local networks more.. Make and easy install system and some sponshorship.. aas VOIP ==bandwidth == Money at the end fo the day.. is reality.. Skype, Asterix and Goggle talk are various platform..which potentially we can link into.. Maybe we can create a FGCOM virtual machine with amazon.. and others international.. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We can create that with a STAR and SID patterns and is and ATC exersice.. Indeed the problem is that FG is all about the pilots and it actually needs some ATC to make it more real.. Vatsim is a network, ivao is another.. Fg has all the flight side worked out.. maybe we need some zones of control.. both for the benefit of new pilots who wanna fly.. and pilots who do international and long range nav et all.. Certainly chatting to a russian aircraft AN225 and quided into london with a few smaller ones around tickles the OAT.. Whats the protocol anyway ?? love u all pedro snip Hal -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
On Saturday, December 24, 2011 04:07:06 PM Pedro Morgan wrote: Ok here's the scenario.. I'm a kid and taken off in a 747 and need some real world kinda help to land for teens... Problem with FG is that it needs to simulate a bit more.. and not be a long winded things snip ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. We alrady have fgcom - no need for skype since fgcom has integration with FG so that things like changing the freq. on the in sim com radio(s) causes fgcom to connect to a different channel and it also trys to simulate radio propagation. Is fgcom perfect? No it still needs work but it would be a lot of work to figure out how to get skype to do what fgcom already does and that same amount of effort could significantly improve fgcom. I don't see the point in moving to skype. Indeed 1000% of above... agreed.. problem is that I want to control the kids downstairs and do do that I can use any comms system I want.. eg holding nose and saying in ATc voice.. down a toilet roll.. Turn left heading 295 .. decend and maintain 30 ft ,... etc.. At the end of the day its a VOIP server.. and is it peer to peer.. We need to get into the peer to peer and local networks more.. You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Make and easy install system and some sponshorship.. aas VOIP ==bandwidth == Money at the end fo the day.. is reality.. Skype, Asterix and Goggle talk are various platform..which potentially we can link into.. Maybe we can create a FGCOM virtual machine with amazon.. and others international.. There is alread some text to sound support using the festival text to speach engine. Festival works on a wide range of systems (Windows, Linux and Mac) although I don't know if it works on android. The text to speach support is primitive at best but I don't personnally think this is a big issue since IMHO the text chat feature in FG should be removed in favor of real voice communications via fgcom. After all few if any aircraft have text chat capabilities but almost all aircraft have com radios. What the Sim missing at the moment is some real ATC... We can create that with a STAR and SID patterns and is and ATC exersice.. Indeed the problem is that FG is all about the pilots and it actually needs some ATC to make it more real.. FG already has an ATC aircraft. What has been missing is people who are willing to send the time needed to setup a working ATC system for more than an hour or two at one or two airports using the existing tools. One of the issues is that fgcom is an addin and as a result ATC is broken out of the box since most (particularly new) pilots do not have a working com radio (IE. fgcom is not installed/running). Vatsim is a network, ivao is another.. Fg has all the flight side worked out.. I think there is already a Vatsim add in available for FG. maybe we need some zones of control.. both for the benefit of new pilots who wanna fly.. and pilots who do international and long range nav et all.. Certainly chatting to a russian aircraft AN225 and quided into london with a few smaller ones around tickles the OAT.. Whats the protocol anyway ?? For what part? Most of this is UDP packets using a FG specific format. I think this is described on one of the FG wiki pages. You should be able to google it. love u all pedro snip Hal - - Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Am 25.12.11 01:59, schrieb Hal V. Engel: You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Hi Hal Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn’t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Yes am very interested in fgcom.. particular how to set up a server and clients.. even the fgcom without the FG dependance.. ie no FG install.. just a lighweight radar client.. and VOIP .. Is there even an index of fgcom servers.. but am extemely interested in this area.. pete On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 1:05 AM, HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: Am 25.12.11 01:59, schrieb Hal V. Engel: You can do this today with fgcom. Just setup a fgcom server on your local upstairs machine and you are good to go. You don't even need FG running to use fgcom to communicate with other users on your network. Hi Hal Can you point me to docs how to setup a fgcom server ? I didn’t find it at all, and it looks like FlightGear has only one FGCom server, one radio station at all. Cheers, Yves -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Live Multiplayer
Is there a way we can work towards a more accessible multiplayer enviroment for next year + What I would maybe like is.. A dead reckoning system of current network And easy way to chat.. And to do some of the Multiplayer tasks without FG.. as an install.. eg being an ATC with an Android and a chrome map eg http://map.fgx.ch/ To make FG accessible.. we need client for ATC and more multiroling.. The issues to tackle are.. Current MP servers - this is in the domain of DNS.. so we can eliminate that problem in various ways.. indeed we need more peer to peer.. or lan to lan..or lan to net.. ATC == chat.. we need to look at skype. android and speakers with text to sound.. and a map - of the current possitions.. As a network.. everyone can contribute.. but what is the backbone... protocoleg XMPP... I can sit here with a linux desktop, and chat with a pilot in XXX? on a browser.. maybe.. Or a few kids.. one on an mobile phone directing ATC to a pilot sim upstairs ?? Is the FGMS source on gitorious as part of FG project...? Would it be possible to make fgms spit out json on port 80 so a client can poll ? Can I do ATC from an android ? I understand that there are moves towards federation etc.. so how do we build around that... Can we cope with 10,000 online payeers at one all in harmony ? some thoughts for digestion and lokking foward pete -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
