Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 8/3/18, Richard Hipp wrote: > On 8/3/18, Richie Adler wrote: >> El 03/08/2018 a las 11:13, Warren Young escribió: >> >>> The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull >>> emails, >>> either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. >> >> Is there a reason why you exclude POP3 from the "pulling"? > > I was just waiting for you to contribute that code, Richie ;-) I misread Richie's email, thinking it was directed at me. I therefore retract my snarky remark -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 8/3/18, Richie Adler wrote: > El 03/08/2018 a las 11:13, Warren Young escribió: > >> The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, >> either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. > > Is there a reason why you exclude POP3 from the "pulling"? I was just waiting for you to contribute that code, Richie ;-) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
El 03/08/2018 a las 11:13, Warren Young escribió: > The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, > either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. Is there a reason why you exclude POP3 from the "pulling"? ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil's (lack of) use of the Ticket system
Take your time drh, this is by no means urgent. I really appreciate the clarification. On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 14:18:43 -0400 Richard Hipp wrote On 8/3/18, Dan Barbarito wrote: > Hi all, I am trying to understand why Fossil itself does not use the > built-in ticketing functionality. I understand that trolls + spammers may be > a problem, but can't ticket changes simply be approved/denied? I tried that. What I found was that I was spending an inordinate amount of time pressing the "Reject" button on new ticket moderation because almost all tickets were of the form "How do I do ..." Maybe the forum will turn out the same way. I won't know until we try it. Maybe with a forum in place, we won't get so many "How do I do..." tickets and we can turn tickets back on. I have your request. I have a really long queue right now. I need to spend several days (probably) working on SQLite. I'll get back to this Fossil enhancement as I am able. Thank you for your feedback - it is important. I will deal with it as soon as I can. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil's (lack of) use of the Ticket system
On 8/3/18, Stephan Beal wrote: > > i see that Richard just answered, so i'll stop there and see what he says I like Stephan's answer better than my own :-) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil's (lack of) use of the Ticket system
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:11 PM Dan Barbarito wrote: > I am trying to understand why Fossil itself does not use the built-in > ticketing functionality. I understand that trolls + spammers may be a > problem, but can't ticket changes simply be approved/denied? Using the > ticketing system would give more people the opportunity to understand what > bugs are being worked on, what features are being added, etc. Having a > single place to document bugs and feature requests is the best way to see > the status of a project at a glance. Yes, we have this mailing list and > soon we will have forums, but I don't think bug reports should reside in > these places. > Fossil used to use its own ticketing system more, but experience showed that it was simply less hassle to use the mailing list. That certainly isn't true for all projects. In the majority of cases, reported bugs are literally not bugs - they're misunderstandings of how to use fossil. A large portion of the "real bugs" reported often ended up resolved within hours of someone reporting them on the mailing list, making the administration via a ticket system more overhead than it was worth. Yes, there's always that minority of bugs for which tracking them in the ticket system makes sense, but it simply fell out of fashion to do so. i see that Richard just answered, so i'll stop there and see what he says on the topic. If there's any conflict of opinions, he wins, of course ;). -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ "Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Fossil's (lack of) use of the Ticket system
On 8/3/18, Dan Barbarito wrote: > Hi all, I am trying to understand why Fossil itself does not use the > built-in ticketing functionality. I understand that trolls + spammers may be > a problem, but can't ticket changes simply be approved/denied? I tried that. What I found was that I was spending an inordinate amount of time pressing the "Reject" button on new ticket moderation because almost all tickets were of the form "How do I do ..." Maybe the forum will turn out the same way. I won't know until we try it. Maybe with a forum in place, we won't get so many "How do I do..." tickets and we can turn tickets back on. I have your request. I have a really long queue right now. I need to spend several days (probably) working on SQLite. I'll get back to this Fossil enhancement as I am able. Thank you for your feedback - it is important. I will deal with it as soon as I can. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Fossil's (lack of) use of the Ticket system
Hi all, I am trying to understand why Fossil itself does not use the built-in ticketing functionality. I understand that trolls + spammers may be a problem, but can't ticket changes simply be approved/denied? Using the ticketing system would give more people the opportunity to understand what bugs are being worked on, what features are being added, etc. Having a single place to document bugs and feature requests is the best way to see the status of a project at a glance. Yes, we have this mailing list and soon we will have forums, but I don't think bug reports should reside in these places. Thanks, Dan___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Aug 03 2018, 15:25 UTC, Richard Hipp wrote: On 8/3/18, Pietro Cerutti wrote: The important point is of my sentence above is that *all* of my email is delivered to that single place where I can organize it. And so it shall be with the new forum. All forum messages will be delivered to you as email. You will need to visit the website in order to *send* new messages. But if you are merely listening, your workflow does not change. Yes - correctly threaded notifications including whole messages are going to be much appreciated! -- Pietro Cerutti signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Theming in Fossil docs - edits
The "Theming" page in Fossil's docs (https://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/customskin.md) has a typo: > log_image_url - A URL for the logo image for this project, as configured on > the Admin/Logo page. This should be "logo_image_url". It's easy enough to guess once you get it wrong, but the document should be changed! In addition, it would be great if that page could include some information I had to discover by trial/error/pure accident: - The document seems to imply that the skin's header includes an HTML section. But, confusingly the "default" skin does not include a section (it starts with ). This strongly implied to me that either it was not possible to change the part of the page, or that some special programming jiujitsu was needed to do so. Ideally the page would clarify what I eventually figured out: that if a section is included in a skin's header, Fossil will use it, and if not included Fossil will supply a default. - The "here's a typical header" part of the document showing the TH1 variables is actually a kind of crucial starting point for making your own section; it includes a few tags+TH1 variables that might badly break things if missing or altered (especially the and stylesheet tags). Ideally the "Theming" document (and/or some HTML comments in the default skin itself) would alert you to this fact. Anyways just some suggestions based on my limited experience. I'm new to the list so there could be some background I'm missing. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Aug 03 2018, 15:48 UTC, Warren Young wrote: While I don't doubt that a forum is a nice feature per se, I just think moving Fossil mailing lists to a forum is going to make drh's life easier by avoiding email spam at the cost of making anyone else's harder by decentralizing where one goes and reads his daily batch of news and by dismissing a well established way of interacting online. Since it’s drh doing the work, I’d say his needs and wishes matter most. FOSS is a do-ocracy: he who does the work makes the rules. Of course. I just was under the impression the doer was asking for feedback. Change is hard. Yup, but I think the time to argue against this particular change is over. Alright -- Pietro Cerutti signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Aug 3, 2018, at 9:04 AM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > On Aug 03 2018, 14:13 UTC, Warren Young wrote: >> On Aug 2, 2018, at 2:57 AM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >>> >>> The fundamental difference between email and web content, is that emails >>> are delivered to me >> >> Only if you run your own SMTP server. >> >> The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, >> either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. > > Don't take my words so strictly. Email are delivered to me, as in, to my > email client, be it a standalone executable or a web email interface. Then in that same spirit, Fossil forums traffic is also delivered to you, either by a) visiting the central Fossil instance; or b) visiting a Fossil instance that’s kept sync’d with that central instance; or c) subscribing to the Fossil repo’s RSS feed; or d) signing up for email notifications, which according to drh will soon contain the whole message content, at least optionally. >>> and once they are, they are mine. >> >> If you want a copy of all of the Fossil Forum traffic, you can just sync the >> forum repo. If you do it on the same schedule your mail client polls its >> IMAP server or whatever, then you have the data just as quickly. > > The important point is of my sentence above is that *all* of my email is > delivered to that single place where I can organize it. Do you subscribe to no other discussion forum than mailing lists? Your information inputs are not already fragmented? I’ve had at least two unrelated forum technologies to monitor at any given time since the late 1980s. Fossil/SQLite isn’t the first mover in this slow exodus from email, not by a long shot. Email was designed for a more civilized time on the Internet, when you could depend on things like ARPANet ToS agreements and local administration to solve problems. The current attempts to fix the email system’s problems are in part accelerating the exodus by making email software harder and harder to develop. One of my biggest arguments against this Fossil Forums feature — which has been discussed for years now — was all the work it’s going to end up taking to support enough of the various email-related protocol standards to reach a suitably large fraction of the end users. But, drh seems to feel it’s worth taking on, so I’m now going to support his efforts. > I can easily follow tens of mailing lists, because of this centrality of the > delivered information. Do you think your workflow is applicable to anybody > interested in following the discussions happening in more than 3 or 4 Fossil > forums? Create a bookmark folder in your browser of choice for all of the web forums you want to visit periodically, put it on the browser’s bookmarks bar, and then on the same schedule you currently check your email, hit whatever keystroke/mouse gesture it takes to open that folder’s bookmarks all at once. This is functionally little different than having an email client configured to sort mailing list traffic into separate local folders. > While I don't doubt that a forum is a nice feature per se, I just think > moving Fossil mailing lists to a forum is going to make drh's life easier by > avoiding email spam at the cost of making anyone else's harder by > decentralizing where one goes and reads his daily batch of news and by > dismissing a well established way of interacting online. Since it’s drh doing the work, I’d say his needs and wishes matter most. FOSS is a do-ocracy: he who does the work makes the rules. > Change is hard. Yup, but I think the time to argue against this particular change is over. The arguments were held over the past 2 or so years, both here and on the SQLite mailing list. I’ve been on both sides of it, but now that it’s over, I don’t see any point in continuing the angst. It is time to get through the new pains: development, debugging, and deployment! ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 8/3/18, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > The important point is of my sentence above is that *all* of my email is > delivered to that single place where I can organize it. And so it shall be with the new forum. All forum messages will be delivered to you as email. You will need to visit the website in order to *send* new messages. But if you are merely listening, your workflow does not change. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] [UI] Increase font size in side-by-side page?
On 03/08/2018 16:19, Warren Young wrote: On Aug 3, 2018, at 5:38 AM, Gilles wrote: Problem is, the font size is a bit small: That’s because the default view is side-by-side. Try clicking the Unified Diff link at the top of the Fossil UI diff view. Thanks to both. I'll play with skins and see how it goes. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Aug 03 2018, 14:13 UTC, Warren Young wrote: On Aug 2, 2018, at 2:57 AM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: The fundamental difference between email and web content, is that emails are delivered to me Only if you run your own SMTP server. The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. Don't take my words so strictly. Email are delivered to me, as in, to my email client, be it a standalone executable or a web email interface. and once they are, they are mine. If you want a copy of all of the Fossil Forum traffic, you can just sync the forum repo. If you do it on the same schedule your mail client polls its IMAP server or whatever, then you have the data just as quickly. The important point is of my sentence above is that *all* of my email is delivered to that single place where I can organize it. I can easily follow tens of mailing lists, because of this centrality of the delivered information. Do you think your workflow is applicable to anybody interested in following the discussions happening in more than 3 or 4 Fossil forums? While I don't doubt that a forum is a nice feature per se, I just think moving Fossil mailing lists to a forum is going to make drh's life easier by avoiding email spam at the cost of making anyone else's harder by decentralizing where one goes and reads his daily batch of news and by dismissing a well established way of interacting online. Change is hard. I like mailing lists. I like to have my unread count near my Fossil mailbox each morning and go through emails. I don't think I'll ever adapt to visiting even a handful of fossil forums daily to get up to date with the discussions going on. -- Pietro Cerutti signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 8/2/18, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > > I also enjoy mailing list. Hopefully some RSS way of > subscribing/replying to the forum from a mail client will be provided > and I will stay here as much as possible before subscribing to the > forum. You will be able to receive all forum traffic by email, just like on a mailing list. (Currently, you only get a notification link that you have to click on to see the actual message. I intend to fix that - but there are several other issues ahead of that one in line.) For sending messages to the forum, however, you will need to visit the website. I do not intend to accept forum traffic via inbound email, as that leads to many spam filtering problems that I do not want to have to deal with. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] [UI] Increase font size in side-by-side page?
On Aug 3, 2018, at 5:38 AM, Gilles wrote: > > Problem is, the font size is a bit small: That’s because the default view is side-by-side. Try clicking the Unified Diff link at the top of the Fossil UI diff view. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] [UI] Increase font size in side-by-side page?
You can customize pretty much anything without plugins if you can
determine an appropriately specific CSS selector for it.
Assuming you use any modern browser, right click the diff and click
"Inspect Element" to see the see the HTML and CSS used to display it.
With some clicking and scrolling around, you'll find that the diff
text is inside a table with class "sbsdiffcols" and that the default
style includes "font-size: xx-small".
So in mine, I changed the size by adding the following CSS to my current skin:
table.sbsdiffcols {
font-size: x-small;
line-height: 1.3em;
}
When doing changes like this, be sure and look around to see if a rule
for that selector already exists in the CSS; if it does, modify that
one rather than making a new one. It's easier to debug your changes if
you don't have multiple rules potentially conflicting with each other.
Be sure and read this closely to learn more about changing Fossil's
web UI appearance:
https://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/customskin.md
On 8/3/18, Gilles wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The UI seems the easiest way to diff versions and see what changes were
> made to a file between two revisions.
>
> Problem is, the font size is a bit small:
>
> https://postimg.cc/image/wm6lpynzx/
>
> I searched the archives* with "ui font size", but didn't find much.
>
> Is there a way to increase font size, or should I install "Fossil Skins
> Extra" (http://fossil.include-once.org/fossil-skins/index) add-on?
>
> Thank you.
>
> * https://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/
>
> ___
> fossil-users mailing list
> fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
> http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
>
___
fossil-users mailing list
fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
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Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Aug 2, 2018, at 2:57 AM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > The fundamental difference between email and web content, is that emails are > delivered to me Only if you run your own SMTP server. The vast majority of mail users *do* go out and specifically pull emails, either via IMAP or by visiting a web mail interface of some kind. > and once they are, they are mine. If you want a copy of all of the Fossil Forum traffic, you can just sync the forum repo. If you do it on the same schedule your mail client polls its IMAP server or whatever, then you have the data just as quickly. Unlike most web forums, Fossil’s Merkle tree based storage mechanism means it’s very difficult to delete forum traffic from the server side before you get a copy. IMAP doesn’t give you that: someone who can get to your mail server can delete mail traffic before it’s delivered to you. Some people even call this a feature, calling it aggressive server-side spam filtering. With Fossil forums, once you’ve sync’d the current content, nothing the server can do will make your local Fossil instance delete it. In that respect, it is just as strong as IMAP. > I can store them, move them around You can store and move the Fossil forums repo around, too. > modify them as I like to apply tags and labels You can’t rewrite Fossil forum message content, but then I suspect you aren’t doing that to delivered mailing list traffic, either. As for labeling and such, Fossil is DBMS-backed, with a flexible web front end. The main limit on what you can make it do as far as mark-up and presentation of stored data goes is will and skill. > They are easy to access (IMAP) from many different places and different > devices Fossil can do that, too. That’s a large part of what it means for something to be a DVCS. > easy to search Fossil forums are backed by the SQLite FTS feature. > and standard. SQL and RSS are standards, too. Unlike with most web forum software, Fossil forums will allow you to pull your raw data back out at will. You could even build a Fossil forums to IMAP gateway, if you wanted. > the location where I go and pull might change over time I’m not quite sure what you mean here, so please confirm my guess: you mean that with mailing lists, you can unsubscribe with one email address and subscribe with another? One big reason you might do that is because your old email address has been overrun by spam, which is a large reason why this feature is being added to Fossil in the first place: with Fossil forums, there is no publicly-visible email address for the spammers to harvest. If instead you’re just observing that you change mail providers over time for other reasons, Fossil likewise doesn’t care which ISP you log into your account from to pull the data or post messages. With auto-registration, Fossil will let you have multiple identities on the forum server, either serially or concurrently. > And content itself might change over time (although this doesn't often happen > in fossil). Once a mailing list message is sent to your SMTP server, it is difficult for someone to change it, except in cases like my aggressive server-side filtering example above. Fossil falls on both sides of that line. On the one side of the line, it allows a posted message to be edited, just like a Fossil wiki article: the original version is always available, but mistakes can be fixed in the window between someone posting a message and others viewing it, reducing needless followup posts, confusion, and (yes!) loss of face. On the other, Fossil’s strong Merkle tree design means that it takes cooperative effort from all parties to actually modify or remove data from the repository. The edits I just spoke of don’t actually change old content, the new content is just substituted for the old content at the UI level only. > Devise a mechanism to allow replying to such an email and sync it with the > forum …and now you’ve got spammers again, which defeats a large part of the purpose of creating this new feature set. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] [UI] Increase font size in side-by-side page?
Hello, The UI seems the easiest way to diff versions and see what changes were made to a file between two revisions. Problem is, the font size is a bit small: https://postimg.cc/image/wm6lpynzx/ I searched the archives* with "ui font size", but didn't find much. Is there a way to increase font size, or should I install "Fossil Skins Extra" (http://fossil.include-once.org/fossil-skins/index) add-on? Thank you. * https://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/ ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
