RE: OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

[Tim Pann]

Great reference! I found this book years ago on clearance for some ridiculously 
low price at a Crown Books (like a small Borders or Barnes  Noble) that was 
going out of business. Out of an entire store full of throwaways, here was this 
gem sitting there all by itself an an almost empty shelf. Wonderful book, and 
the weekend on the couch would be well spent.

Tim

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of mkopen
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:42 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style, if anyone wants to spend a 
weekend on the couch ...

Cheers,
Mike

 
 I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a free 
 font that is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively small, 
 so purchase should be considered.
 
 The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a 
 relatively low height to width ratio, making them very readable. If 
 you opt for a free font, look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow,  
 designed for newspaper columns.
 
 On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, VLM TechSubs 
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 
  Greetings everyone,
   
  I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing 
and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a 
book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but 
rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of the 
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as references.
The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
   
  All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or 
  recommended
fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring 
budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be 
most welcome.
   
  Well, thanks in advance!
   
  Best regards,
  Elchanan
  ___
  



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Re: OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

  
  
We use Arial for headings and Century
  Schoolbook for the paragraph text. Generally san-serif fonts are
  better for onscreen reading and serif fonts are better for print.
  Century Schoolbook is a serif font that is similar to Times New
  Roman but less compressed. It's very comfortable for onscreen
  reading and when printed. 
  Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

  On 19-Aug-13 2:04 AM, Scott Turner wrote:


  
  I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can
find a free font that is similar to these. However, the cost is
relatively small, so purchase should be considered.
  
  
  The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a
relatively low height to width ratio, making them very readable.
If you opt for a free font, look for that. Avoid Times, it's
narrow, designed for newspaper columns.
  
On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, "VLM TechSubs" techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
wrote:

  
  

  
  
  
  
Greetings everyone,

Im working in FM 8,
Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
Ive now been asked to do the book design, in addition
to most of the writing and basic template design. The
subject matter is primarily financial  its a book
about the history of taxation. Its not a scholarly work
at all, but rather one designed to wake up American
teens and young adults to some of the issues involved.
Footnotes are used here and there, but more for
explanation of background/details than in a traditional
sense as references. The book will be published in a
standard 6x9 format, paperback. 

All that having been
said  What are peoples favorite or recommended fonts
for such a project. And since this is being published on
a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational bent,
suggestions of free fonts would be most welcome. 

Well, thanks in
advance!

Best regards,
Elchanan
  

  
  
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Re: OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

[mkopen]

Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style, if anyone wants to spend a
weekend on the couch ...

Cheers,
Mike

 
 I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a 
 free font that is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively 
 small, so purchase should be considered.
 
 The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a 
 relatively low height to width ratio, making them very readable. If 
 you opt for a free font, look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow,
  designed for newspaper columns.
 
 On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, VLM TechSubs 
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 
  Greetings everyone,
   
  I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing
and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a
book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but
rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of
the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for
explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense as references.
The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
   
  All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or recommended
fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring
budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be
most welcome.
   
  Well, thanks in advance!
   
  Best regards,
  Elchanan
  ___
  



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OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

[mkopen]

Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style, if anyone wants to spend a
weekend on the couch ...

Cheers,
Mike

> 
> I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a 
> free font that is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively 
> small, so purchase should be considered.
> 
> The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a 
> relatively low height to width ratio, making them very readable. If 
> you opt for a free font, look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow,
>  designed for newspaper columns.
> 
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, "VLM TechSubs" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Greetings everyone,
> >  
> > I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing
and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a
book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but
rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of
the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for
explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense as references.
The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
> >  
> > All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or recommended
fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring
budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be
most welcome.
> >  
> > Well, thanks in advance!
> >  
> > Best regards,
> > Elchanan
> > ___
> > 

OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

[Tim Pann]

Great reference! I found this book years ago on clearance for some ridiculously 
low price at a Crown Books (like a small Borders or Barnes & Noble) that was 
going out of business. Out of an entire store full of throwaways, here was this 
gem sitting there all by itself an an almost empty shelf. Wonderful book, and 
the weekend on the couch would be well spent.

Tim

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of mkopen
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:42 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Font suggestions for book? (Scott Turner)

Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style, if anyone wants to spend a 
weekend on the couch ...

Cheers,
Mike

> 
> I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a free 
> font that is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively small, 
> so purchase should be considered.
> 
> The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a 
> relatively low height to width ratio, making them very readable. If 
> you opt for a free font, look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow,  
> designed for newspaper columns.
> 
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, "VLM TechSubs" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Greetings everyone,
> >  
> > I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing 
and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a 
book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but 
rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of the 
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as references.
The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
> >  
> > All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or 
> > recommended
fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring 
budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be 
most welcome.
> >  
> > Well, thanks in advance!
> >  
> > Best regards,
> > Elchanan
> > ___
> > 



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Re: OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Scott Turner]

I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a free font that 
is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively small, so purchase should 
be considered.

The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a relatively low 
height to width ratio, making them very readable. If you opt for a free font, 
look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow, designed for newspaper columns.

On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, VLM TechSubs 
techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:

 Greetings everyone,
  
 I’m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. 
 I’ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing 
 and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial … it’s a 
 book about the history of taxation. It’s not a scholarly work at all, but 
 rather one designed to “wake up” American teens and young adults to some of 
 the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for 
 explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense as references. 
 The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
  
 All that having been said … What are people’s favorite or recommended fonts 
 for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring budget 
 with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be most 
 welcome.
  
 Well, thanks in advance!
  
 Best regards,
 Elchanan
 ___
 
 
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OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Scott Turner]

I have a fondness for Minion or Garamond. I think you can find a free font that 
is similar to these. However, the cost is relatively small, so purchase should 
be considered.

The advantage if Minion and Garamond is that they both have a relatively low 
height to width ratio, making them very readable. If you opt for a free font, 
look for that. Avoid Times, it's narrow, designed for newspaper columns.

On Aug 15, 2013, at 17:22, "VLM TechSubs"  wrote:

> Greetings everyone,
>  
> I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. 
> I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the writing 
> and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a 
> book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but 
> rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of 
> the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for 
> explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense as references. 
> The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.
>  
> All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or recommended fonts 
> for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring budget 
> with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would be most 
> welcome.
>  
> Well, thanks in advance!
>  
> Best regards,
> Elchanan
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as quills at airmail.net.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/quills%40airmail.net
> 
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
-- next part --
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OT: Font suggestions for book?

[VLM TechSubs]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm not sure whether this post went through, so I'm trying again. 

 

In the past, I've worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I've left pretty stuff such as font
selection to others. So I really don't know what fonts might be most readable, 
or most popular, or how to pair a body and a heading
font, or the like. Of course, much is written all over the Internet, but I 
thought that here, there would be people with specific
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it's okay. :)

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?

 

Greetings everyone,

 

I'm working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I've 
now been asked to do the book design, in addition to
most of the writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily 
financial . it's a book about the history of
taxation. It's not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed to wake 
up American teens and young adults to some of the
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as
references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback. 

 

All that having been said . What are people's favorite or recommended fonts for 
such a project. And since this is being published on
a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free 
fonts would be most welcome. 

 

Well, thanks in advance!

 

Best regards,

Elchanan

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RE: OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Fred Ridder]

Besides being a matter of taste (which really cannot be argued), font choice 
cannot be done intelligently without knowing  *lot* of other information, such 
as:
- medium of the deliverable (printed, PDF, HTML, eBook, etc.)
- page size (if fixed, or range of page size if variable)
- column width and point size (which together determine the point size range)
- leading
- nature of content (fiction, general non-fiction, scholarly writing, technical 
documentation, etc.)
- natural organization of content (all text in long paragraphs vs. text blocks 
broken up by shorter paragraphs and/or lists vs. text with lots of tables and 
figures, etc.)

What works well for the kind of technical content I work with most of the time 
(long, complex sentences but often fairly short paragraphs, and lots of tables 
and bulleted lists) is very different from what I would use for some of the 
general non-fiction I edit on the side. And neither of those correspond to what 
I prefer to see when I read fiction.   

If you asked this question over on the Techwr-l list, I'm sure you'd get a 
flood of highly opinionated answers. If you asked it on the copyeditors list, I 
think you'd get a handful of it depends answers similar to mine since there 
are some actual book designers on that list. But over here in the world of 
FrameMaker, I'm not sure that we have a lot of people who fancy themselves font 
fondlers. 

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: OT:  Font suggestions for book?
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:42:48 -0700

Hi everyone, I’m not sure whether this post went through, so I’m trying again.  
In the past, I’ve worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I’ve left “pretty stuff” such as font selection to others. So I 
really don’t know what fonts might be most readable, or most popular, or how to 
pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course, much is written all 
over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would be people with specific 
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it’s okay. :) Thanks,ElchananFrom: VLM TechSubs 
[mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book? Greetings everyone, I’m working in FM 
8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I’ve now been asked to 
do the book design, in addition to most of the writing and basic template 
design. The subject matter is primarily financial … it’s a book about the 
history of taxation. It’s not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed 
to “wake up” American teens and young adults to some of the issues involved. 
Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as references. The book will be 
published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.  All that having been said … 
What are people’s favorite or recommended fonts for such a project. And since 
this is being published on a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational 
bent, suggestions of free fonts would be most welcome.  Well, thanks in 
advance! Best regards,Elchanan
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RE: Font suggestions for book?

[Craig Ede]

This is the reason people go to graphic design school and spend all that
time worrying about recognizing typefaces, the effects of leading, etc. 

 

Your audience should determine the look of the book. Check out books at your
local bm bookstore--bricks and mortar, not Barnes and Noble, tho' they
might be the same. Many books will list the typeface used at the front or
back of the book. 

 

All typefaces have a distinct character. Academic writing uses staid and
conservative type. Children's books use wacky letterforms. You want
something in between. Another alternative is to go to a site like
www.identifont.com and drill down through a series of font attributes. They
also list the most popular fonts there. (Interestingly, they use font, not
typeface, as their terminology.)

 

Printed, longer samples of type in an actual book give you a better idea of
the character of a typeface than small samples on a computer screen.

 

These are just some starting considerations.

 

Good luck.

 

Craig

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Re: OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Böðvar Björgvinsson]

Choosing a font set is always a bit of a matter of taste. However, it is
usual to see in (company) manuals sans serif types like Arial (ususally
because no one bothers to check for anything else) or the Calibri font that
came with the newer MS Office suites.

I used to opt for Helvetica instead of Arial, mainly because the numbers
were clearer in Helvetica. But that was  clearly before Calibri times. ;-)

Some serif fonts come to mind. I am working with a book now about a certain
institution, and I decided to use the old Cheltenham for body and Myriad
Pro for headings.

I have spent a lot of time through the years looking for and comparing
fonts, and in one instance, trying to decide on the best font for the
dim-sighted, I made four copies of sample text with different fonts and had
people test read (from a distance to closer up). The one decided upon
seemed to help the dyslexics too.

So, if you want to study fonts, you will be spending a lot of your free
time. But it is fun! But your customer will not complement you on it,
becaus he/she/they do not know what it really is that makes them like or
hate the looks of the book. There are so many things to consider.

But you are right: Readability counts. So, not Arial! And not fancy fonts.

Probably this is of little help, but it is Friday night. :-)

And, I could send you some samples in pdf if you like. Main thing is: What
does your font library consist of? New fonts can be very expensive.

Have a nice weekend!

Bodvar, Iceland






On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 3:42 PM, VLM TechSubs 
techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 ** **

 I’m not sure whether this post went through, so I’m trying again. 

 ** **

 In the past, I’ve worked on writing, editing, and functional template
 design, but in general I’ve left “pretty stuff” such as font selection to
 others. So I really don’t know what fonts might be most readable, or most
 popular, or how to pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course,
 much is written all over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would
 be people with specific experience writing and publishing books. So that is
 why I have directed this inquiry here. I hope it’s okay. :)

 ** **

 Thanks,

 Elchanan

 *From:* VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
 *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
 *To:* Framers; Free Framers
 *Subject:* OT: Font suggestions for book?

 ** **

 Greetings everyone,

 ** **

 I’m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
 I’ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the
 writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily
 financial … it’s a book about the history of taxation. It’s not a scholarly
 work at all, but rather one designed to “wake up” American teens and young
 adults to some of the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there,
 but more for explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense
 as references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format,
 paperback. 

 ** **

 All that having been said … What are people’s favorite or recommended
 fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring
 budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would
 be most welcome. 

 ** **

 Well, thanks in advance!

 ** **

 Best regards,

 Elchanan

 ___


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RE: Font suggestions for book?

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

The answer is This is Your decision really!

However, I can make some personal observations.

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BFOYW4K/ref=docs-os-doi_0 
quite a while back and found it a good read to understand how to make fonts in 
documents look good. (The title is Type  Layout: Are You Communicating or 
Just Making Pretty Shapes.)

Also, I bought Adobe Type Library Reference Book some months back: 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321821254/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8psc=1
 just as a reference to see how their fonts would look when printed in books. 
This book is definitely overkill for most people, of course, but an interesting 
reference to have!

BTW, quite separately, this is a fun read for interesting stories on fonts - as 
I recall, someone on this list recommended it: 
http://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-ebook/dp/B00BFOYW4K/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-textie=UTF8qid=1376695562sr=1-1keywords=Just+My+TYpe.
 (The title is Just My Type.)

Anyway, my advice is to use a Serif font for dense text (books, specifications, 
etc.) because it is believed to be easier to read (a myth according to some 
people though): 
http://blogs.adobe.com/acom/2008/07/to_serif_or_not_to_serif_regar_1.html ... 
particularly in printed text.  As I recall, that is what prompted the New York 
Times newspaper to develop the Times font years ago.

A quote from 
http://www.awaionline.com/2011/10/the-best-fonts-to-use-in-print-online-and-email/:

Best fonts for print

In his book Cashvertising, Drew Eric Whitman cites a 1986 study of fonts 
(printed on paper) that found only 12 percent of participants effectively 
comprehended a paragraph set in sans-serif type versus 67 percent who were 
given a version set in serif typeface.

Those who read the sans-serif version said they had a tough time reading the 
text and continually had to backtrack to regain comprehension.

In a test of three different fonts, two serifs (Garamond and Times New Roman) 
and one sans serif (Helvetica), he found 66 percent were able to comprehend 
Garamond; 31.5 percent Times New Roman, and 12.5 percent Helvetica (out of a 
total of 1,010,000 people surveyed).

FWIW, I believe the Serif Myth ... after doing my own comparisons. So, I use 
Palatino Linotype for my text in documents and specifications, particularly 
because symbols like copyright (c) and trademark (tm) are easier to read in 
smaller sizes (i.e., under 10pt). Just compare two pages of the same text, one 
in Palatino Linotype (or Times Roman) and one in Helvetica (or Arial) to 
understand what I mean by easier to read denser Serif text when looking at a 
full page of words in a book or document or manual.

Now, for on-screen readability, people believe that a Sans Serif font is best. 
That may well be true ... I just have not done any how does it look testing 
for myself yet.

When I need a fixed-width font (code, scripts, certain numbers, etc.), I use 
Consolas since it looks very, very good on-screen and in print (unlike 
Courier and its variants).

With text that is stretched vertically, or squeezed horizontally, at all - for 
example, for a banner or section/chapter heading - a Sans Serif font is better, 
IMHO. I used to use Arial, but switched a while back to Helvetica based on 
comments from people on this list. I compared the two fonts, and Helvetica is 
clearly better looking with rounded character structures (look at the letter 
e, for example).

And, finally, for presentations, I now find Adobe Myriad Pro Light to be very 
clean and light, so I am using it more and more of late.

Summary ... for me (YMMV):


1.  Dense text inside the books and documents: Palatino Linotype.

2.  Chapter/section header, banners: Helvetica.

3.  Fixed-width content: Consolas.

4.  Presentations: Adobe Myriad Pro Light.

Regards,

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:43 AM
To: Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure whether this post went through, so I'm trying again.

In the past, I've worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I've left pretty stuff such as font selection to others. So I 
really don't know what fonts might be most readable, or most popular, or how to 
pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course, much is written all 
over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would be people with specific 
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it's okay. :)

Thanks,
Elchanan
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?

Greetings everyone,

I'm working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I've 
now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most

OT: Font suggestions for book?

[VLM TechSubs]

Hi everyone,



I'm not sure whether this post went through, so I'm trying again. 



In the past, I've worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I've left "pretty stuff" such as font
selection to others. So I really don't know what fonts might be most readable, 
or most popular, or how to pair a body and a heading
font, or the like. Of course, much is written all over the Internet, but I 
thought that here, there would be people with specific
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it's okay. :)



Thanks,

Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?



Greetings everyone,



I'm working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I've 
now been asked to do the book design, in addition to
most of the writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily 
financial . it's a book about the history of
taxation. It's not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed to "wake 
up" American teens and young adults to some of the
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as
references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback. 



All that having been said . What are people's favorite or recommended fonts for 
such a project. And since this is being published on
a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free 
fonts would be most welcome. 



Well, thanks in advance!



Best regards,

Elchanan

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OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Fred Ridder]

Besides being a matter of taste (which really cannot be argued), font choice 
cannot be done intelligently without knowing  *lot* of other information, such 
as:
- medium of the deliverable (printed, PDF, HTML, eBook, etc.)
- page size (if fixed, or range of page size if variable)
- column width and point size (which together determine the point size range)
- leading
- nature of content (fiction, general non-fiction, scholarly writing, technical 
documentation, etc.)
- natural organization of content (all text in long paragraphs vs. text blocks 
broken up by shorter paragraphs and/or lists vs. text with lots of tables and 
figures, etc.)

What works well for the kind of technical content I work with most of the time 
(long, complex sentences but often fairly short paragraphs, and lots of tables 
and bulleted lists) is very different from what I would use for some of the 
general non-fiction I edit on the side. And neither of those correspond to what 
I prefer to see when I read fiction.   

If you asked this question over on the Techwr-l list, I'm sure you'd get a 
flood of highly opinionated answers. If you asked it on the copyeditors list, I 
think you'd get a handful of "it depends" answers similar to mine since there 
are some actual book designers on that list. But over here in the world of 
FrameMaker, I'm not sure that we have a lot of people who fancy themselves font 
fondlers. 

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: OT:  Font suggestions for book?
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:42:48 -0700

Hi everyone, I?m not sure whether this post went through, so I?m trying again.  
In the past, I?ve worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I?ve left ?pretty stuff? such as font selection to others. So I 
really don?t know what fonts might be most readable, or most popular, or how to 
pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course, much is written all 
over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would be people with specific 
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it?s okay. :) Thanks,ElchananFrom: VLM TechSubs 
[mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book? Greetings everyone, I?m working in FM 
8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I?ve now been asked to 
do the book design, in addition to most of the writing and basic template 
design. The subject matter is primarily financial ? it?s a book about the 
history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed 
to ?wake up? American teens and young adults to some of the issues involved. 
Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as references. The book will be 
published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback.  All that having been said ? 
What are people?s favorite or recommended fonts for such a project. And since 
this is being published on a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational 
bent, suggestions of free fonts would be most welcome.  Well, thanks in 
advance! Best regards,Elchanan
___


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Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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Font suggestions for book?

[Craig Ede]

This is the reason people go to graphic design school and spend all that
time worrying about recognizing typefaces, the effects of leading, etc. 



Your audience should determine the look of the book. Check out books at your
local b bookstore--bricks and mortar, not Barnes and Noble, tho' they
might be the same. Many books will list the typeface used at the front or
back of the book. 



All typefaces have a distinct character. Academic writing uses staid and
conservative type. Children's books use wacky letterforms. You want
something in between. Another alternative is to go to a site like
www.identifont.com and drill down through a series of font attributes. They
also list the most popular fonts there. (Interestingly, they use font, not
typeface, as their terminology.)



Printed, longer samples of type in an actual book give you a better idea of
the character of a typeface than small samples on a computer screen.



These are just some starting considerations.



Good luck.



Craig

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OT: Font suggestions for book?

[Böðvar Björgvinsson]

Choosing a font set is always a bit of a matter of taste. However, it is
usual to see in (company) manuals sans serif types like Arial (ususally
because no one bothers to check for anything else) or the Calibri font that
came with the newer MS Office suites.

I used to opt for Helvetica instead of Arial, mainly because the numbers
were clearer in Helvetica. But that was  clearly before Calibri times. ;-)

Some serif fonts come to mind. I am working with a book now about a certain
institution, and I decided to use the old Cheltenham for body and Myriad
Pro for headings.

I have spent a lot of time through the years looking for and comparing
fonts, and in one instance, trying to decide on the best font for the
dim-sighted, I made four copies of sample text with different fonts and had
people test read (from a distance to closer up). The one decided upon
seemed to help the dyslexics too.

So, if you want to study fonts, you will be spending a lot of your free
time. But it is fun! But your customer will not complement you on it,
becaus he/she/they do not know what it really is that makes them like or
hate the looks of the book. There are so many things to consider.

But you are right: Readability counts. So, not Arial! And not fancy fonts.

Probably this is of little help, but it is Friday night. :-)

And, I could send you some samples in pdf if you like. Main thing is: What
does your font library consist of? New fonts can be very expensive.

Have a nice weekend!

Bodvar, Iceland






On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 3:42 PM, VLM TechSubs <
TechSubs at vibrantlivingministries.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> ** **
>
> I?m not sure whether this post went through, so I?m trying again. 
>
> ** **
>
> In the past, I?ve worked on writing, editing, and functional template
> design, but in general I?ve left ?pretty stuff? such as font selection to
> others. So I really don?t know what fonts might be most readable, or most
> popular, or how to pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course,
> much is written all over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would
> be people with specific experience writing and publishing books. So that is
> why I have directed this inquiry here. I hope it?s okay. :)
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elchanan
>
> *From:* VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
> *To:* Framers; Free Framers
> *Subject:* OT: Font suggestions for book?
>
> ** **
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> ** **
>
> I?m working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall.
> I?ve now been asked to do the book design, in addition to most of the
> writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily
> financial ? it?s a book about the history of taxation. It?s not a scholarly
> work at all, but rather one designed to ?wake up? American teens and young
> adults to some of the issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there,
> but more for explanation of background/details than in a traditional sense
> as references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format,
> paperback. 
>
> ** **
>
> All that having been said ? What are people?s favorite or recommended
> fonts for such a project. And since this is being published on a shoestring
> budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free fonts would
> be most welcome. 
>
> ** **
>
> Well, thanks in advance!
>
> ** **
>
> Best regards,
>
> Elchanan
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as bodvar at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bodvar%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
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Font suggestions for book?

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

The answer is "This is Your decision" really!

However, I can make some personal observations.

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BFOYW4K/ref=docs-os-doi_0 
quite a while back and found it a good read to understand how to make fonts in 
documents look good. (The title is "Type & Layout: Are You Communicating or 
Just Making Pretty Shapes".)

Also, I bought "Adobe Type Library Reference Book" some months back: 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321821254/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8=1
 just as a reference to see how their fonts would look when printed in books. 
This book is definitely overkill for most people, of course, but an interesting 
reference to have!

BTW, quite separately, this is a fun read for interesting stories on fonts - as 
I recall, someone on this list recommended it: 
http://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-ebook/dp/B00BFOYW4K/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text=UTF8=1376695562=1-1=Just+My+TYpe.
 (The title is "Just My Type".)

Anyway, my advice is to use a Serif font for dense text (books, specifications, 
etc.) because it is believed to be easier to read (a myth according to some 
people though): 
http://blogs.adobe.com/acom/2008/07/to_serif_or_not_to_serif_regar_1.html ... 
particularly in printed text.  As I recall, that is what prompted the New York 
Times newspaper to develop the Times font years ago.

A quote from 
http://www.awaionline.com/2011/10/the-best-fonts-to-use-in-print-online-and-email/:

Best fonts for print

In his book Cashvertising, Drew Eric Whitman cites a 1986 study of fonts 
(printed on paper) that found only 12 percent of participants effectively 
comprehended a paragraph set in sans-serif type versus 67 percent who were 
given a version set in serif typeface.

Those who read the sans-serif version said they had a tough time reading the 
text and "continually had to backtrack to regain comprehension."

In a test of three different fonts, two serifs (Garamond and Times New Roman) 
and one sans serif (Helvetica), he found 66 percent were able to comprehend 
Garamond; 31.5 percent Times New Roman, and 12.5 percent Helvetica (out of a 
total of 1,010,000 people surveyed).

FWIW, I believe the "Serif Myth" ... after doing my own comparisons. So, I use 
Palatino Linotype for my text in documents and specifications, particularly 
because symbols like copyright (c) and trademark (tm) are easier to read in 
smaller sizes (i.e., under 10pt). Just compare two pages of the same text, one 
in Palatino Linotype (or Times Roman) and one in Helvetica (or Arial) to 
understand what I mean by "easier to read denser Serif text" when looking at a 
full page of words in a book or document or manual.

Now, for on-screen readability, people believe that a Sans Serif font is best. 
That may well be true ... I just have not done any "how does it look" testing 
for myself yet.

When I need a fixed-width font (code, scripts, certain numbers, etc.), I use 
"Consolas" since it looks very, very good on-screen and in print (unlike 
Courier and its variants).

With text that is stretched vertically, or squeezed horizontally, at all - for 
example, for a banner or section/chapter heading - a Sans Serif font is better, 
IMHO. I used to use "Arial", but switched a while back to "Helvetica" based on 
comments from people on this list. I compared the two fonts, and Helvetica is 
clearly better looking with rounded character structures (look at the letter 
"e", for example).

And, finally, for presentations, I now find Adobe Myriad Pro Light to be very 
clean and light, so I am using it more and more of late.

Summary ... for me (YMMV):


1.  Dense text inside the books and documents: Palatino Linotype.

2.  Chapter/section header, banners: Helvetica.

3.  Fixed-width content: Consolas.

4.  Presentations: Adobe Myriad Pro Light.

Regards,

Z

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:43 AM
To: Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure whether this post went through, so I'm trying again.

In the past, I've worked on writing, editing, and functional template design, 
but in general I've left "pretty stuff" such as font selection to others. So I 
really don't know what fonts might be most readable, or most popular, or how to 
pair a body and a heading font, or the like. Of course, much is written all 
over the Internet, but I thought that here, there would be people with specific 
experience writing and publishing books. So that is why I have directed this 
inquiry here. I hope it's okay. :)

Thanks,
Elchanan
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:22 PM
To: Framers; Free Framers
Subject: OT: Font suggestions for book?

Greetings everyon

OT: Font suggestions for book?

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone,

 

I'm working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I've 
now been asked to do the book design, in addition to
most of the writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily 
financial . it's a book about the history of
taxation. It's not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed to wake 
up American teens and young adults to some of the
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as
references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback. 

 

All that having been said . What are people's favorite or recommended fonts for 
such a project. And since this is being published on
a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free 
fonts would be most welcome. 

 

Well, thanks in advance!

 

Best regards,

Elchanan

___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

OT: Font suggestions for book?

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone,



I'm working in FM 8, Win 7 x64 on a book that will be published this Fall. I've 
now been asked to do the book design, in addition to
most of the writing and basic template design. The subject matter is primarily 
financial . it's a book about the history of
taxation. It's not a scholarly work at all, but rather one designed to "wake 
up" American teens and young adults to some of the
issues involved. Footnotes are used here and there, but more for explanation of 
background/details than in a traditional sense as
references. The book will be published in a standard 6x9 format, paperback. 



All that having been said . What are people's favorite or recommended fonts for 
such a project. And since this is being published on
a shoestring budget with a nonprofit/educational bent, suggestions of free 
fonts would be most welcome. 



Well, thanks in advance!



Best regards,

Elchanan

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