Re: secured PDFs

[Heiko Haida]

 

Hi Carol, 

as I and Shmuel Wolfson pointed out: The password "security" is not
secure at all. 

I apologize, but your clients require something that cannot be achieved.


About the certificate: 
Given an original PDF with certificate, any later change would be
displayed -- so any reader could see that the file is not the original
file.
On the other hand, of course it is not possible for external
users/readers to distinguish a fake PDF with a false certificate or with
no certificate at all from an original one. First, he/she would have to
know that our company uses a certificate, and second the way a
certificate looks like can be reproduced by anyone. 

Only our staff could find out if the PDF is a fake (with certificate
password check), e.g. if necessary to initiate legal measures. 

At the moment, I do not see any way to prevent fake PDFs, although I
would be fond of knowing one. 

Best regards - Tino H. Haida 

Carol J. Elkins: 

> At 11:00 AM 3/4/2015, you wrote:
> 
>> We are using the certificate security for our manuals instead, which will 
>> make sure that any unauthorized change could be detected.
> 
> Heiko, from the little I know about PDF certificate security, you must be 
> able to identify every user of the PDF. My clients sell PDF versions of their 
> books via CD on open ecommerce and I have found no good way to secure those 
> PDFs other than the very vulnerable password protection. Do you happen to 
> know if certificate security can be used in situations where a PDF is burned 
> to CD and the CDs mass-produced? My clients require secure PDFs to prevent 
> modifying them and also to prevent companies from copying the content and 
> rebranding it as their own.
> 
> Carol 
> 
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Re: secured PDFs

[Ed Nodland]

We avoid PDFs for our subscription publications. We produced a reader that
is available as an on-line product or a standalone Windows program (CD, USB
Stick, or Download) that provides subscription licenses to be purchased for
the publications in the library.  We can also control expiration dates,
automatic content updates and add our own bells and whistles.

It's html based and use's a compressed Lucene index so user's can still
copy content page by page but the cleanup and reuse would be a pain.  The
main feature is user's can't just send or install the program on another PC
and have it function like a PDF would.  For our print editions we run the
source XML into Frame to produce the PDFs for commercial printing.

Ed Nodland

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> At 11:00 AM 3/4/2015, you wrote:
>
>  We are using the certificate security for our manuals instead, which will
>> make sure that any unauthorized change could be detected.
>>
>
> Heiko, from the little I know about PDF certificate security, you must be
> able to identify every user of the PDF. My clients sell PDF versions of
> their books via CD on open ecommerce and I have found no good way to secure
> those PDFs other than the very vulnerable password protection. Do you
> happen to know if certificate security can be used in situations where a
> PDF is burned to CD and the CDs mass-produced? My clients require secure
> PDFs to prevent modifying them and also to prevent companies from copying
> the content and rebranding it as their own.
>
> Carol
> ___
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Re: secured PDFs

[Carol J. Elkins]

At 11:00 AM 3/4/2015, you wrote:

We are using the certificate security for our manuals instead, which 
will make sure that any unauthorized change could be detected.


Heiko, from the little I know about PDF certificate security, you 
must be able to identify every user of the PDF. My clients sell PDF 
versions of their books via CD on open ecommerce and I have found no 
good way to secure those PDFs other than the very vulnerable password 
protection. Do you happen to know if certificate security can be used 
in situations where a PDF is burned to CD and the CDs mass-produced? 
My clients require secure PDFs to prevent modifying them and also to 
prevent companies from copying the content and rebranding it as their own.


Carol 


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Re: secured PDFs

[Shmuel]

  
  
Actually there is a free one called Freeware PDF Unlocker that works
most of the time and A-PDF Restrictions Remover which is even better
for only $10.

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer


On 04-Mar-15 3:31 PM, Heiko Haida
  wrote:


  Hi all,
  some time ago I bought the PDF Password Remover (-->
http://www.verypdf.com/app/pdf-password-remover/index.html)for
legal purposes.
  The tool simply wipes away the password in a second and costs
only 30 $.
So, forget about password security to be any kind of obstacle.
  We are using the certificate security for our manuals instead,
which will make sure that any unauthorized change could be
detected.
  (Until now, I still do believe that a certificate can not be
removed, or only by those users who own the certificate and with
the system where the certificate was originally set. But maybe
this is not true, does anyone have objections?)
  Best regards - Tino H. Haida, Berlin
   
   
  Shmuel:
  This
is what we allow and disallow:
    Printing:    Allowed
    Changing the Document:    Not Allowed
    Document Assembly:    Not Allowed
    Content Copying or Extraction:    Allowed
    Content Extraction for Accessibility:    Allowed
    Commenting:    Not Allowed
    Filling of form fields:    Not Allowed
    Signing:    Not Allowed
    Creation of Template Pages:    Not Allowed

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer


On 03-Mar-15 10:12 PM, Johnson,
  Joyce wrote:

  
We deliver user guides (software and
  hardware) to customers  via password-protected pdfs,
  loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer web
  portal.
  
 
I'm wondering how members of this group
  deliver customer-facing documents. Do you use pdfs? If so,
  do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you
  accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs
  so they can extract pages and images?
 
Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Joyce
 
Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group
 
1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089
 
847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875
 
www.abtg.com

  

  


  

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Re: secured PDFs

[Heiko Haida]

 

Hi all, 

some time ago I bought the PDF Password Remover (-->
http://www.verypdf.com/app/pdf-password-remover/index.html)for legal
purposes. 

The tool simply wipes away the password in a second and costs only 30 $.
So, forget about password security to be any kind of obstacle. 

We are using the certificate security for our manuals instead, which
will make sure that any unauthorized change could be detected. 

(Until now, I still do believe that a certificate can not be removed, or
only by those users who own the certificate and with the system where
the certificate was originally set. But maybe this is not true, does
anyone have objections?) 

Best regards - Tino H. Haida, Berlin 

Shmuel: 

> This is what we allow and disallow:
> Printing: ALLOWED
> Changing the Document: Not Allowed
> Document Assembly: Not Allowed
> Content Copying or Extraction: ALLOWED
> Content Extraction for Accessibility: ALLOWED
> Commenting: Not Allowed
> Filling of form fields: Not Allowed
> Signing: Not Allowed
> Creation of Template Pages: Not Allowed
> 
> --
> Shmuel Wolfson
> Technical Writer
> 
> On 03-Mar-15 10:12 PM, Johnson, Joyce wrote: 
> 
>> We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers via 
>> password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer 
>> web portal. 
>> 
>> I'm wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. 
>> Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do 
>> you accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they can 
>> extract pages and images? 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for your responses. 
>> 
>> Joyce 
>> 
>> JOYCE M. JOHNSON 
>> 
>> AmerisourceBergen 
>> 
>> Lead Technical Writer 
>> 
>> Technology Group 
>> 
>> 1400 Busch Parkway 
>> 
>> Buffalo Grove, IL 60089 
>> 
>> 847.808.5875 
>> 
>> 888.537.3102 ext 15875 
>> 
>> www.abtg.com [1]
 

Links:
--
[1] http://www.abtg.com/
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Re: secured PDFs

[Shmuel]

  
  
This is what we allow and disallow:
    Printing:    Allowed
    Changing the Document:    Not Allowed
    Document Assembly:    Not Allowed
    Content Copying or Extraction:    Allowed
    Content Extraction for Accessibility:    Allowed
    Commenting:    Not Allowed
    Filling of form fields:    Not Allowed
    Signing:    Not Allowed
    Creation of Template Pages:    Not Allowed

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer


On 03-Mar-15 10:12 PM, Johnson, Joyce
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
We deliver user guides (software and
  hardware) to customers  via password-protected pdfs, loaded
  onto servers and also posted on our customer web portal.
  
 
I’m wondering how members of this group
  deliver customer-facing documents. Do you use pdfs? If so, do
  you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you
  accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so
  they can extract pages and images?
 
Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Joyce
 
Joyce M.
  Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group
 
1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089
 
847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875
 
www.abtg.com
 
CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended
only for the review of the party to whom it is addressed. If
you have received this transmission in error, please
immediately return it to the sender, delete it and destroy
it without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not
constitute the waiver of the attorney-client or any other
privilege.
 
 
  
  
  
  
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Re: secured PDFs

[Johan Anglemark]

We password-protect them. We allow almost everything except making 
changes to the PDF, extracting, printing etc is OK.


The reason we do it is to maximise the odds that the user and Support 
are looking at the same text when they call Support. We have no concerns 
over the texts being copied etc.


-j

On 2015-03-03 21:12, Johnson, Joyce wrote:

We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our
customer web portal.

I’m wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing
documents. Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you
secure them, how do you accommodate in-house colleagues who request
unsecured pdfs so they can extract pages and images?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joyce


--
Johan Anglemark

Tel: 0708-65 10 88
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Re: secured PDFs

[Scott Turner]

In the financial industry we are under requirements from the CFPB to provide 
authorized documents to our internal users. One part of that is access to 
secured online docs. We want the authorized version to be used and that is only 
possible from a single online access point, ensuring that the latest authorized 
version is used. We don't want them to extract anything, or to print. 


> On Mar 3, 2015, at 14:12, Johnson, Joyce  wrote:
> 
> We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via 
> password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer 
> web portal. 
>  
> I’m wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. Do 
> you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you 
> accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they can 
> extract pages and images?
>  
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>  
> Joyce
>  
> Joyce M. Johnson
> AmerisourceBergen
> Lead Technical Writer
> Technology Group
>  
> 1400 Busch Parkway
> Buffalo Grove, IL 60089
>  
> 847.808.5875
> 888.537.3102 ext 15875
>  
> www.abtg.com
>  
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain 
> privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the 
> review of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this 
> transmission in error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete it 
> and destroy it without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not 
> constitute the waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege.
>  
>  
> ___
> 
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Re: secured PDFs

[gr...@hedgewizard.net]

We deliver unlocked PDFs.
The only time I use locked PDFs is at the customer's request.
As for illegal reuse; we have seen lawsuits successfully brought by Cisco and
Brocade (successful in that the defendant agreed to rework their docs).
 
Grant
 

> On March 3, 2015 at 2:17 PM Ken Poshedly  wrote:
> 
>  It's more a matter of our verbage and/or images being copied and used in the
> documentation by competitors.
> 
>  As a tech writer for two world-known heavy equipment companies over the past
> 17 years, I know first-hand that it is not uncommon for former technicians and
> trainers to be put in front of a keyboard and terminal to produce manuals when
> they get "too old" to travel long distances or for extended periods for
> training or service duties. Their skills are valued far more than their
> ability to write coherent text.
> 
>  They obviously know every thread-pitch, ampere and torque of all bolts and
> everything else, but proper writing skills and observance of copyright laws
> are TOTALLY foreign to many of them. That is exactly what happened when I
> worked alongside a former friend who had been a trainer for many years but
> then got into technical writing. Cutting and pasting stuff verbatim from
> competitors' manuals was totally what he did. When I told him our company
> could theoretically get sued out of existence, he brushed it off.
> 
>  In the real world, I don't know if that kind of stuff (being sued for using
> plagiarized text and graphics in construction equipment manuals) actually
> matters, but my job -- the way I see it -- includes protecting my employer
> from this kind of stuff.
> 
> 
>  On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:00 PM, "john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com"
>  wrote:
> 
>> > 
> >Ken...just wondering...
> >If a customer buys your product, what do you care if they make changes?
> > 
> >John X Posada
> >AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control &
> > Analytics
> >| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
> >330 Madison Ave., NY NY
> >   
> >___
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >Phone 
> >  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874 
> >Fax   
> >  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254   
> >Email 
> >  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com <mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com>
> >  
> >   
> >___
> >Protect our environment - please only print this if you have   
> >to!   
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >From:Ken Poshedly < poshe...@bellsouth.net
> > <mailto:poshe...@bellsouth.net> >
> >To:" tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
> > <mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com> "
> >    < tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
> > <mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com> >, "Johnson, Joyce"
> >< jjohn...@abtg.com <mailto:jjohn...@abtg.com> >
> >Cc:" framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > <mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> " < framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > <mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> >
> >Date:03/03/2015 03:56 PM
> >Subject:Re: secured PDFs
> >Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
> > <mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >In addition to hard-copies of our manuals included in the operator cab of
> >the heavy construction equipment my company manufactures and markets
> >worldwide, we also make available pdf files of our manuals with passwords
> >to prevent changes, copying text & images, etc.
> > 
> >So far, we'r

RE: secured PDFs

[Craig, Alison]

We secure our customer-facing PDFs. Users can Print or View only. We've learned 
the hard way with dealers/distributors who pull things out, make 
shorter/different versions or change things to suit their personal style. I 
know it's easy to crack a PDF password, but from a liability standpoint, if 
someone does this, it's a deliberate act on their part.

As we produce Medical Devices, it is imperative that no one tampers with 
content which has had to go through software reviews, clinical reviews, Risk 
Assessments, Regulatory approvals (FDA, Health Canada, etc) audits (again, FDA, 
Health Canada, etc).

A few internal people occasionally ask for extracts from the manuals for 
legitimate purposes, so I extract the specifics they need - but I never give 
them the password (too many in-house people keep copies and pass them around, 
so we've learned the hard way that only documentation personal can have the 
password).

Alison


Alison Craig | Technical Documentation Lead
Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC  V6V 2K9 | 
analogicultrasound.com<http://www.analogicultrasound.com>
T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Johnson, Joyce
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 12:12 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: secured PDFs

We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via 
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer 
web portal.

I'm wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. Do 
you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you 
accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they can extract 
pages and images?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joyce

Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group

1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089

847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875

www.abtg.com<http://www.abtg.com/>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain 
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the review 
of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in 
error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete it and destroy it 
without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not constitute the waiver of 
the attorney-client or any other privilege.


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RE: secured PDFs

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Yikes! Copyright and trademark, etc., is important – I have done internal 
presentations here to make sure that we are all careful about that. While it is 
rare for any manual information to be the basis of serious copyright legal 
cases, the consequences of such infringement could be harsh and fiscally 
troublesome.

The Legal Counsel inside a company (of any size) should be involved in any 
situation where these can arise. If your former friend had ever mentioned his 
approach to them, I am sure he would have been given way more than a sharp rap 
on his knuckles by competent legal counsel!

And, of course, if you are finding your verbiage and images are being used by 
competitors, the legal folks can (and should) send a cease-and-desist to start. 
Often, this is enough to solve the problem (i.e., “don’t file a lawsuit that 
costs money if you can cure it easily” mode of operation) – it is rare to see 
the Apple-Samsung type of cases, actually.

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Ken Poshedly
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 1:17 PM
To: john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Johnson, Joyce
Subject: Re: secured PDFs

It's more a matter of our verbage and/or images being copied and used in the 
documentation by competitors.

As a tech writer for two world-known heavy equipment companies over the past 17 
years, I know first-hand that it is not uncommon for former technicians and 
trainers to be put in front of a keyboard and terminal to produce manuals when 
they get "too old" to travel long distances or for extended periods for 
training or service duties. Their skills are valued far more than their ability 
to write coherent text.

They obviously know every thread-pitch, ampere and torque of all bolts and 
everything else, but proper writing skills and observance of copyright laws are 
TOTALLY foreign to many of them. That is exactly what happened when I worked 
alongside a former friend who had been a trainer for many years but then got 
into technical writing. Cutting and pasting stuff verbatim from competitors' 
manuals was totally what he did. When I told him our company could 
theoretically get sued out of existence, he brushed it off.

In the real world, I don't know if that kind of stuff (being sued for using 
plagiarized text and graphics in construction equipment manuals) actually 
matters, but my job -- the way I see it -- includes protecting my employer from 
this kind of stuff.

On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:00 PM, 
"john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com<mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com>" 
mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com>> wrote:

Ken...just wondering...
If a customer buys your product, what do you care if they make changes?

John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

___





Phone
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874
Fax
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
Email
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com<mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com>

___
Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
to!






From:Ken Poshedly mailto:poshe...@bellsouth.net>>
To:"tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com<mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com>"

mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com>>, 
"Johnson, Joyce"
mailto:jjohn...@abtg.com>>
Cc:"framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>" 
mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
Date:03/03/2015 03:56 PM
Subject:Re: secured PDFs
Sent by:
framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com>



In addition to hard-copies of our manuals included in the operator cab of
the heavy construction equipment my company manufactures and markets
worldwide, we also make available pdf files of our manuals with passwords
to prevent changes, copying text & images, etc.

So far, we're not aware of any plagiarism or other unauthorized use of our
stuff. At least not yet.

-- Ken in Atlanta


On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 3:33 PM, 
"tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com<mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com>"
mailto:tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com>> wrote:


We used to deliver user guides as secured PDFs; however, the security
settings in Acrobat 9 never fully suited our needs. We have since upgraded
to Acrobat 12, but I haven't checked if the settings are any better. That
said, securing the documents ended up being more pain than it was worth.
Too many users wanted to extract pages or do other things that we deemed
were OK. We dropped the securing documents years ago. I know there is fear
that someo

Re: secured PDFs

[Ken Poshedly]

It's more a matter of our verbage and/or images being copied and used in the 
documentation by competitors.

As a tech writer for two world-known heavy equipment companies over the past 17 
years, I know first-hand that it is not uncommon for former technicians and 
trainers to be put in front of a keyboard and terminal to produce manuals when 
they get "too old" to travel long distances or for extended periods for 
training or service duties. Their skills are valued far more than their ability 
to write coherent text.


They obviously know every thread-pitch, ampere and torque of all bolts and 
everything else, but proper writing skills and observance of copyright laws are 
TOTALLY foreign to many of them. That is exactly what happened when I worked 
alongside a former friend who had been a trainer for many years but then got 
into technical writing. Cutting and pasting stuff verbatim from competitors' 
manuals was totally what he did. When I told him our company could 
theoretically get sued out of existence, he brushed it off.

In the real world, I don't know if that kind of stuff (being sued for using 
plagiarized text and graphics in construction equipment manuals) actually 
matters, but my job -- the way I see it -- includes protecting my employer from 
this kind of stuff.



On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:00 PM, "john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com" 
 wrote:
 

>
>
>Ken...just wondering...
>If a customer buys your product, what do you care if they make changes?
>
>John X Posada
>AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
>| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
>330 Madison Ave., NY NY
>
>___ 
>
>
>
>
>
>Phone  
>  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874  
>Fax
>  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
>Email  
>  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
>
>___ 
>Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
>to!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:Ken Poshedly 
>To:"tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com"
>, "Johnson, Joyce"
>
>Cc:"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
>Date:03/03/2015 03:56 PM
>Subject:Re: secured PDFs
>Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
>
>
>
>In addition to hard-copies of our manuals included in the operator cab of
>the heavy construction equipment my company manufactures and markets
>worldwide, we also make available pdf files of our manuals with passwords
>to prevent changes, copying text & images, etc.
>
>So far, we're not aware of any plagiarism or other unauthorized use of our
>stuff. At least not yet.
>
>-- Ken in Atlanta
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 3:33 PM, "tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com"
> wrote:
>
>
>We used to deliver user guides as secured PDFs; however, the security
>settings in Acrobat 9 never fully suited our needs. We have since upgraded
>to Acrobat 12, but I haven't checked if the settings are any better. That
>said, securing the documents ended up being more pain than it was worth.
>Too many users wanted to extract pages or do other things that we deemed
>were OK. We dropped the securing documents years ago. I know there is fear
>that someone could steal some trade secret (I never found one in our
>manuals), but as long as you are distributing a document in either PDF or
>print, you have to assume that sooner or later your competition will
>manage to get a copy.
>
>As far as protecting ourselves from someone modifying our documentation in
>a way that could expose us to liability for machine damage or personal
>injury, we cover ourselves (per the lawyers) by including disclaimers in
>the preface and noting that the documentation always remains our
>proprietary property and cannot be altered or duplicated without our
>permission. I'm sure that doesn't stop an

Re: secured PDFs

[john . x . posada]

Ken...just wondering...
If a customer buys your product, what do you care if they make changes?

John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY
 
 ___ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Phone   
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874   
 Fax 
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
 Email   
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
 
 ___ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
 to! 
 





From:   Ken Poshedly 
To: "tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com"
, "Johnson, Joyce"

Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   03/03/2015 03:56 PM
Subject:Re: secured PDFs
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



In addition to hard-copies of our manuals included in the operator cab of
the heavy construction equipment my company manufactures and markets
worldwide, we also make available pdf files of our manuals with passwords
to prevent changes, copying text & images, etc.

So far, we're not aware of any plagiarism or other unauthorized use of our
stuff. At least not yet.

-- Ken in Atlanta


On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 3:33 PM, "tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com"
 wrote:


 We used to deliver user guides as secured PDFs; however, the security
 settings in Acrobat 9 never fully suited our needs. We have since upgraded
 to Acrobat 12, but I haven't checked if the settings are any better. That
 said, securing the documents ended up being more pain than it was worth.
 Too many users wanted to extract pages or do other things that we deemed
 were OK. We dropped the securing documents years ago. I know there is fear
 that someone could steal some trade secret (I never found one in our
 manuals), but as long as you are distributing a document in either PDF or
 print, you have to assume that sooner or later your competition will
 manage to get a copy.

 As far as protecting ourselves from someone modifying our documentation in
 a way that could expose us to liability for machine damage or personal
 injury, we cover ourselves (per the lawyers) by including disclaimers in
 the preface and noting that the documentation always remains our
 proprietary property and cannot be altered or duplicated without our
 permission. I'm sure that doesn't stop anyone, but the legal folks say
 that if a customer violates that clause, they place themselves at risk
 through no fault of ours.




 Tom Beiswenger
 Manager, Technical & Training Documentation, Project Manager - Inspection
 Business
 Emhart Glass Mfg. Inc.
 1140 Sullivan St.
 Elmira, NY 14901
 PH: +607 735-4279
 FX: +607 734-8278
 Mobile: +607 769-4779
 Email: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com



 From:"Johnson, Joyce" 
 To:    "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
 Date:03/03/2015 03:14 PM
 Subject:secured PDFs
 Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



 We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via
 password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our
 customer web portal.

 I’m wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents.
 Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how
 do you accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they
 can extract pages and images?

 Thanks in advance for your responses.

 Joyce

 Joyce M. Johnson
 AmerisourceBergen
 Lead Technical Writer
 Technology Group

 1400 Busch Parkway
 Buffalo Grove, IL 60089

 847.808.5875
 888.537.3102 ext 15875

 www.abtg.com

 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain
 privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the
 review of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this
 transmission in error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete
 it and destroy it without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not
 constitute the waiver of the attorney-cl

Re: secured PDFs

[Ken Poshedly]

In addition to hard-copies of our manuals included in the operator cab of the 
heavy construction equipment my company manufactures and markets worldwide, we 
also make available pdf files of our manuals with passwords to prevent changes, 
copying text & images, etc.

So far, we're not aware of any plagiarism or other unauthorized use of our 
stuff. At least not yet.

-- Ken in Atlanta



On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 3:33 PM, "tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com" 
 wrote:
 

>
>
>We used to deliver user guides as secured PDFs; however, the security settings 
>in Acrobat 9 never fully suited our
needs. We have since upgraded to Acrobat 12, but I haven't checked if the
settings are any better. That said, securing the documents ended up being
more pain than it was worth. Too many users wanted to extract pages or
do other things that we deemed were OK. We dropped the securing documents
years ago. I know there is fear that someone could steal some trade secret
(I never found one in our manuals), but as long as you are distributing
a document in either PDF or print, you have to assume that sooner or later
your competition will manage to get a copy. 
>
>As far as protecting ourselves from
someone modifying our documentation in a way that could expose us to liability
for machine damage or personal injury, we cover ourselves (per the lawyers)
by including disclaimers in the preface and noting that the documentation
always remains our proprietary property and cannot be altered or duplicated
without our permission. I'm sure that doesn't stop anyone, but the legal
folks say that if a customer violates that clause, they place themselves
at risk through no fault of ours. 
>
>
>
>
>Tom Beiswenger
>Manager, Technical & Training Documentation, Project Manager - Inspection
Business
>Emhart Glass Mfg. Inc.
>1140 Sullivan St.
>Elmira, NY 14901
>PH: +607 735-4279
>FX: +607 734-8278
>Mobile: +607 769-4779
>Email: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com 
>
>
>
>From:  
 "Johnson, Joyce"
 
>To:  
 "framers@lists.frameusers.com"
 
>Date:  
 03/03/2015 03:14 PM 
>Subject:
   secured PDFs 
>Sent by:
   framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
>>
> 
>
>
>We deliver user guides (software and hardware)
to customers  via password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and
also posted on our customer web portal.  
>  
>I’m wondering how members of this group
deliver customer-facing documents. Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure
those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you accommodate in-house colleagues
who request unsecured pdfs so they can extract pages and images? 
>  
>Thanks in advance for your responses. 
>  
>Joyce 
>  
>Joyce M. Johnson 
>AmerisourceBergen 
>Lead Technical Writer 
>Technology Group 
>  
>1400 Busch Parkway 
>Buffalo Grove, IL 60089 
>  
>847.808.5875 
>888.537.3102 ext 15875 
>  
>www.abtg.com 
>  
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This
electronic mail transmission may contain privileged and/or confidential
information and is intended only for the review of the party to whom it
is addressed. If you have received this transmission in error, please 
immediately
return it to the sender, delete it and destroy it without reading it. Unintended
transmission shall not constitute the waiver of the attorney-client or
any other privilege. 
>  
> ___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to framers as tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tom.beiswenger%40emhartglass.com
>
>Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
>
>http://www.frameusers.com/for more resources and info.
> 
>
>
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to framers as poshe...@bellsouth.net.
>
>Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/poshedly%40bellsouth.net
>
>Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
>___


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RE: secured PDFs

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

We never bother to secure our PDF's.

Even though much of the information we have available for our customers is 
often proprietary to us, worrying about people extracting a page here and 
there, or printing what they shouldn't, etc., seemed to be overkill.

Basically, we protect our confidential relationships with NDA's and deal with 
each "release" of confidential information if it occurs - too rare to matter, 
btw.

All documents that fall under the NDA terms are always clearly marked with the 
words "Aeris Confidential Information" in the footnote on every page too. That 
is a requirement of our NDA, and our legal folks re-iterate that to people 
often. :)

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Johnson, Joyce
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 12:12 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: secured PDFs

We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via 
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer 
web portal.

I'm wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. Do 
you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you 
accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they can extract 
pages and images?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joyce

Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group

1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089

847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875

www.abtg.com<http://www.abtg.com/>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain 
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the review 
of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in 
error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete it and destroy it 
without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not constitute the waiver of 
the attorney-client or any other privilege.


___


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Re: secured PDFs

[tom . beiswenger]

We used to deliver user guides as secured PDFs; however, the security 
settings in Acrobat 9 never fully suited our needs. We have since upgraded 
to Acrobat 12, but I haven't checked if the settings are any better. That 
said, securing the documents ended up being more pain than it was worth. 
Too many users wanted to extract pages or do other things that we deemed 
were OK. We dropped the securing documents years ago. I know there is fear 
that someone could steal some trade secret (I never found one in our 
manuals), but as long as you are distributing a document in either PDF or 
print, you have to assume that sooner or later your competition will 
manage to get a copy.

As far as protecting ourselves from someone modifying our documentation in 
a way that could expose us to liability for machine damage or personal 
injury, we cover ourselves (per the lawyers) by including disclaimers in 
the preface and noting that the documentation always remains our 
proprietary property and cannot be altered or duplicated without our 
permission. I'm sure that doesn't stop anyone, but the legal folks say 
that if a customer violates that clause, they place themselves at risk 
through no fault of ours.




Tom Beiswenger
Manager, Technical & Training Documentation, Project Manager - Inspection 
Business
Emhart Glass Mfg. Inc.
1140 Sullivan St.
Elmira, NY 14901
PH: +607 735-4279
FX: +607 734-8278
Mobile: +607 769-4779
Email: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com



From:   "Johnson, Joyce" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   03/03/2015 03:14 PM
Subject:secured PDFs
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via 
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our 
customer web portal. 
 
I?m wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. 
Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how 
do you accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they 
can extract pages and images?
 
Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Joyce
 
Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group
 
1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089
 
847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875
 
www.abtg.com
 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain 
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the 
review of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this 
transmission in error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete 
it and destroy it without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not 
constitute the waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege.
 
 ___


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Re: secured PDFs

[john . x . posada]

I deliver documentation via PDFs downloaded from our Shrepoint servers.

We don't password them. The SP site is accessible only by permission.

We don't secure them.  We know what we sent. If someone makes changes that
are wrong, we can show what they originally received. The "wrong" is on
their head.

John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY
 
 ___ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Phone   
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874   
 Fax 
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
 Email   
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
 
 ___ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
 to! 
 





From:   "Johnson, Joyce" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   03/03/2015 03:14 PM
Subject:secured PDFs
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our
customer web portal.

I’m wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents.
Do you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how
do you accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they
can extract pages and images?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joyce

Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group

1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089

847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875

www.abtg.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the
review of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this
transmission in error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete
it and destroy it without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not
constitute the waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege.




** This
message originated from the Internet. Its originator may or may not be who
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secured PDFs

[Johnson, Joyce]

We deliver user guides (software and hardware) to customers  via 
password-protected pdfs, loaded onto servers and also posted on our customer 
web portal.

I'm wondering how members of this group deliver customer-facing documents. Do 
you use pdfs? If so, do you secure those pdfs? If you secure them, how do you 
accommodate in-house colleagues who request unsecured pdfs so they can extract 
pages and images?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Joyce

Joyce M. Johnson
AmerisourceBergen
Lead Technical Writer
Technology Group

1400 Busch Parkway
Buffalo Grove, IL 60089

847.808.5875
888.537.3102 ext 15875

www.abtg.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain 
privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for the review 
of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in 
error, please immediately return it to the sender, delete it and destroy it 
without reading it. Unintended transmission shall not constitute the waiver of 
the attorney-client or any other privilege.


___


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