Re: who wrote this
Jerry McAllister wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 06:12:40AM -0500, Gerard wrote: On November 30, 2007 at 02:37AM Erich Dollansky wrote: [ snip ] sensorship starts in the mind of the people. ^ "censorship " Well, maybe not if you are referring to the aesthetic appreciation of the item in question... Then again if you are part of one of those religious groups that like to perfume the place before praying, it would be censership. jerry -- Gerard ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Ok, OK!!! The troll is coming out from under the bridge... First of all, the worst of humanoid units sometimes comes up with valuable quotes; that warrant repeating. By contrast, what most perceive as the "best" of humanoid units seldom utter profound and/or timeless sayings. "The only thing men learn from history, is that men never learn from history." A quote from , someone. If some thin-skinned, limp-wristed, left-handed, intellectual wanna-be's whine about the name "Hitler" on ANY website, then let them whine! Personally, I hardly ever use quotes from Hitler when illustrating points - but that doesn't mean that any of his material wasn't relevant, or isn't relevant today. Usually, I steer toward Nietzsche when looking for applicable quotes for modern times. But then, (and I speak from sad experience with this) the Holy Bible offends nearly everyone these days. Try quoting from the prophet Jeremiah, and see how many people tell you to shut up. Hitler, Jeremiah, Hosea, Amos, Ruckman...it doesn't matter who you quote, or even mention; someone is going to be offended. I say, "Three Cheers" for the FreeBSD team! No Guts, No Glory. All whiners should get some personal counseling, or, like the song says..."GET OVER IT" Dr. Z. Wade Hampton ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 06:12:40AM -0500, Gerard wrote: > > On November 30, 2007 at 02:37AM Erich Dollansky wrote: > > [ snip ] > > > sensorship starts in the mind of the people. >^ > "censorship " Well, maybe not if you are referring to the aesthetic appreciation of the item in question... Then again if you are part of one of those religious groups that like to perfume the place before praying, it would be censership. jerry > > -- > Gerard ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 10:05:45AM +0300, Boris Samorodov wrote: > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:26:11 -0500 Jerry McAllister wrote: > > > the hitler example remain with it because it establishes > > a very strong case-in-point example. > > Yep, shoot someone and then say -- hey, that's the best example of > what shouldn't be done! But, the shooting has already been done. Don't make it even more meaningless by learning nothing from it. jerry > > > WBR > -- > Boris Samorodov (bsam) > Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone & Internet SP > FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Boris Samorodov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:14:30 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >> Fundamentally, you have to be educated to understand it. FreeBSD >> is first and formost, for the educated computer user. > > Ted, you may exchange famous Hitler's quotes with your highly educated > friends, laugh at Hirosima's anecdotes with your highly educated > japanese friends, etc. But every educated person should understand > what may be done privately and what should be done publicly. Making fun out of Hitler or Hiroshima is not in question here. Not every fortune cookie is supposed to be funny. Some of them are quotes from wise men, some from foolish ones, etc.; whenever the fortune program picks one and shows it to you, it's a side of human kind you see. Speaking of Hitler publicly is done in every school, which is relevant since we can be sure a new Hitler will come on day or the other to the Earth; and we all want to recognize him as quickly as possible. (BTW, it seems you have totally misunderstood Ted's position.) -- Cheers, Michaël ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
> On November 30, 2007 at 02:37AM Erich Dollansky wrote: [ snip ] > sensorship starts in the mind of the people. ^ "censorship " -- Gerard pgpfLhmsC0AuY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: who wrote this
Hi, Gerard wrote: On November 30, 2007 at 02:37AM Erich Dollansky wrote: [ snip ] sensorship starts in the mind of the people. ^ "censorship " I have had a good laugh on this. Let me tell you, why it was so. I have had to write two documents over the last month with the word sensor or sense in every other sentence. It just shows how limited the own mind gets when it is busy with certain things and then even the spell checker does not complain anymore. It does not matter anymore what the words really mean. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:37:24 +0800 Erich Dollansky wrote: > sensorship starts in the mind of the people. True. That's why: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=www/118284 WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone & Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Hi, Boris Samorodov wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:14:30 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Fundamentally, you have to be educated to understand it. FreeBSD is first and formost, for the educated computer user. Ted, you may exchange famous Hitler's quotes with your highly educated friends, laugh at Hirosima's anecdotes with your highly educated japanese friends, etc. But every educated person should understand what may be done privately and what should be done publicly. Let's have enough tact not to bother very sensitive history at the official FreeBSD site. sensorship starts in the mind of the people. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:14:30 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Fundamentally, you have to be educated to understand it. FreeBSD > is first and formost, for the educated computer user. Ted, you may exchange famous Hitler's quotes with your highly educated friends, laugh at Hirosima's anecdotes with your highly educated japanese friends, etc. But every educated person should understand what may be done privately and what should be done publicly. Let's have enough tact not to bother very sensitive history at the official FreeBSD site. WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone & Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:26:11 -0500 Jerry McAllister wrote: > the hitler example remain with it because it establishes > a very strong case-in-point example. Yep, shoot someone and then say -- hey, that's the best example of what shouldn't be done! WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone & Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [freebsd-questions] Re: who wrote this
Randomly found this : http://xkcd.com/261/ Tuc ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:14:30PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > For example, a famous quote of Hitler's is: > > "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature." That raises an interesting point: There are quotes that, taken out of context, might be seen as "offensive". In many cases, the "in context" presentation that makes the inoffensive are those that involve attributing them to the monsters who uttered the words in the first place. Let's take two hypothetical examples . . . 1. "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature." - Anonymous 2. "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature." - Adolf Hitler Frankly, I find the latter to be more valuable, because it says something about the psychology of a genocidal leader of men. The former might be considered offensive by some, because it's a statement whose implications in and of itself are disturbing when taken as it is presented without context -- as a maxim to live by. I'd rather see example 2 than example 1, personally. If I saw the Hitler-attributed version come up in a fortune, it would be thought-provoking. If I saw the unattributed version (and didn't know Hitler said it), I would think "What the hell is this doing here?" > > Fundamentally, you have to be educated to understand it. FreeBSD > is first and formost, for the educated computer user. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Ben Franklin: "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 11:26:47PM -0600, icantthinkofone wrote: > Oh, who the heck cares. The guy is dead and he's not going to hurt you > so get a life people. If you ban Hitler then ban Stalin and Mussolini > and let's go back another thousand years and dig up those graves, too. > Move on! That's a much better way to put it than mine. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Anonymous: "Eat your crow early, while it's young and tender. Don't wait until it's old and tough." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in front of non-users. this reasoning was one of the main excuses of Germans after the war was lost. 'I only did my job'. This thread has been a wonderful demonstration of how people rationalize and interpret information. The poster before you was saying that they don't care what your non-BSD related views are, keep them to yourself. They're saying the priority is to promote and evangelize BSD. The political commentary has nothing to do with the OS, so it reflects on the community when threads like this are pursued. Somehow, you're saying the "Germans rationalized their atrocities with the excuse they were only doing their jobs." A) I don't see how the two are related at all. You're not making any clear justification for that reply. B) What happened was more a demonstration of society and psychology than having an entire nation suddenly "go insane." Every society has elements that to an outsider with their own culture and standards seems insane, and events of the period will also influence perceptions. It's also very clear that Germany wasn't one cohesive anti-Jewish loony bin. They were people, plain Jane citizens with their own beliefs and lives. that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we remove his name from the website: Is there a shorter way to express the same thing? Replace everything mildly offensive with the string Anonymous or Chuck or Beastie. Whitewashing everything is the clearest way to having an enlightened community. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Mon, 2007-11-26 at 14:26 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 09:49:17PM +0300, Boris Samorodov wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:02:53 + neal wrote: > > > > > You want the name 'Hitler' erased from existence. > > > > Let the name exist. > > Else where but the official FreeBSD site. > > Let this OS be out of politics. What is *not* politics... As FreeBSD should be used in different "cultures" around the globe, these discussions, if started, will never end. What one should ask is: *WHY* does someone try to start those discussions... Ps. *who* has the right to *erase* history. Even though it's those who did survive a "war" that write it, it is a *great source* to learn about the most scared living species on earth, the human. If I where a believer, I would say that the one that would earn most on erasing history is the devil himself. Ds. ...btw, thx for a great OS and a great comunity etc. - EvErY day is a rare gift - / Peo -- - PGP signed/encrypted emails is prefered - -- [novice about this? ~> visit: www.gnupg.org] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
RE: who wrote this
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry > McAllister > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 9:26 AM > To: eBoundHost: Artur > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: who wrote this > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:58:08AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > >On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 03:23:56PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > > No Jerry, you misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about > which quotes > > go into which list. My complaint is about how that web page is > structured, > > and that its wording should be reworked. > > No, I didn't misunderstand it. You don't like the way they are > describing > which goes in to which list. The current wording is saying that it does > not specifically belong on the offensive list just because it come from > an offensive person. I, not too tongue-in-cheek suggested some other > examples who might be used in place of the 'hitler' name that could > categorize something coming from an offensive source but not necessarily > belong in the offensive list merely because of the source. > > Actually, I think the original page wording is a little skimpy about > the concept, but the example[s] given do very well at illustrating the > intended meaning. eg, by just saying that hitler quotes are examples > of entries that are not offensive, it leaves to ones ability to > misunderstand or misinterpret, the reasoning behind hitler quotes not > being offensive entries.One really has to look at the other category > to see that it does not fit in the, somewhat better described, offensive > list category to pick up the reasoning for it being in the non-offensive > list, eg, it ain't one of those so it must be one of these. > > So, I haven't yet thought of a good, adequately lean, but > clarifying phrase, > though if one comes to me I will submit it, but a clarifying phrase could > well be included and the hitler example remain with it because it > establishes > a very strong case-in-point example. > The phrase "Hitler quotes" is also important because it establishes that "Godwin's Law" applies here to the quote file. In short, if a particular fortune or quote is so objectionable to someone that they feel they must make a comparison to Hitler, then automatically they are wrong and the quote is considered by everyone else to NOT be objectionable. Godwin's Law works because Hitler is, essentially, the equivalent of the Christian Judas, of the modern world. The reality of it is that because Hitler and Nazism was so incredibly horrible, it is a societal absolute that we must never forget the Holocaust nor ever allow our descendents to forget it. Hitler made some incredible statements in his day - things that are so unbelievable that no sane person could imagine someone making them - and so repeating some of the most insane of those quotes is actually societies way of remembering the Holocaust. For example, a famous quote of Hitler's is: "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature." Hitler actually believed this, and when people see it and read it, the quote illustrates how much of an incredible monster that Hitler really was far better than reams of text. Thus, inclusion of it in the fortune database is a public service - because it reminds us once more when we read it of how warped and degenerate that governments can really become. Unfortunately, there are people like the original poster who, just as Godwin's law shows - are so blind and knee-jerking that they would close their eyes and refuse to read such a quote nor understand it's true meaning - simply because they knew that Hitler said it. It is because of this reason, that the reference to Hitler on that webpage was made. Fundamentally, you have to be educated to understand it. FreeBSD is first and formost, for the educated computer user. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: who wrote this
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DAve > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 6:30 AM > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: who wrote this > > > > -- > I've been asking Google for a Veteran's Day logo since 2000, > maybe 1999. I was told they finally did a Veteran's Day logo, > but none of the links I was given return anything but a > normal Google logo. > Dave, when the Google webmaster does get around to updating the logo, the Veteran's Day logo will appear on this page with the rest of them: http://www.google.com/intl/en/holidaylogos.html And, I did in fact see a Veterans day logo used this year. If you must continue to beat this horse, you need to start asking them to update the above URL. > Sad, very sad. Maybe the Chinese Government didn't like it? > I don't see why - they got their logo in 2005. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Oh, who the heck cares. The guy is dead and he's not going to hurt you so get a life people. If you ban Hitler then ban Stalin and Mussolini and let's go back another thousand years and dig up those graves, too. Move on! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Hi, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in front of non-users. this reasoning was one of the main excuses of Germans after the war was lost. 'I only did my job'. that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we remove his name from the website: Is there a shorter way to express the same thing? freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? Because they are just lousy copy cats. But one has at least a serious chance to make it up to become the new leader of the pack. One thing is for sure, Adolf Schicklgruber still keep people busy. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not > matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the > wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a > decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad > in front of non-users. I find that ironic, considering any attempt to pretend Hitler didn't exist is, in itself, a political statement. The statement that Hitler quotes are not to be relegated to the "offensive" file just because Hitler said them is about as anti-political a statement as one can make. It basically means "I don't care about your political sensibilities. Quotes will be judged based on whether they're interesting, not whether you have some kind of political problem with them." It's more succinct, though, and makes the very clear point that people should stop trying to get Hitler quotes moved into "offensive". > > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. > Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. What Hitler said wasn't placed on the FreeBSD fortune page, either. Your analogy is broken. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Larry Wall: "A script is what you give the actors. A program is what you give the audience." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 05:51:13PM +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying > > to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if > > that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is > > that we remove his name from the website: > > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of > > insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. > > ... > > Quote from the linked website: > > If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does not > > contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be in > > the offensive file. > > I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes (being > German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to put > anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. > Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) > context. I'm offended by Germany's tendency to jail people for talking about Hitler, too -- but I don't let that convince me to killfile everything said by Germans on this list. Just as not all things Hitler said should necessarily be wiped from memory (in fact, I believe they should be carefully saved and studied to help us understand where the world went wrong in allowing his crimes to be committed), not all statements by people who want to censor Hitler's words (or even those that happen to be nationally associated with such people) should be censored either. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Thomas McCauley: "The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 09:49:17PM +0300, Boris Samorodov wrote: > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:02:53 + neal wrote: > > > You want the name 'Hitler' erased from existence. > > Let the name exist. > Else where but the official FreeBSD site. > Let this OS be out of politics. . . . by censoring the word "Hitler"? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] They always say that when life gives you lemons you should make lemonade. I always wonder -- isn't the lemonade going to suck if life doesn't give you any sugar? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 07:48:35PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > Erik, > > This is a very wise thing that you just said, and I agree with you almost > completely. The difference is that your very own words are a brilliant way > to say it, and would be wonderful to replace the "Hitler quotes" that is > there now. So, if someone would replace it with your quote, I would be > completely satisfied: > > >>the speaker of the quote is not to be the > >>basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. Considering the very specific tendency of some people to find any mention of Hitler offensive, I'd say the text should be modified in a manner similar to this: A quote whose source you find offensive. This includes, but is not limited to, Hitler quotes. . . . or we could just leave it as is, with a footnote explaining the meaning behind the mention of Hitler quotes. Either way, I rather suspect that entirely failing to mention "Hitler quotes" specifically will result in greater incidence of people complaining that Hitler quotes should be removed. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Anonymous: "Eat your crow early, while it's young and tender. Don't wait until it's old and tough." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 07:43:12PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > I'm not going to reply to your personal attack The fact that you took anything Giorgios said as a "personal attack" may provide a hint as to why you think the comment on the indicated page of the freebsd.org site is offensive. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Kent Beck: "I always knew that one day Smalltalk would replace Java. I just didn't know it would be called Ruby." ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: who wrote this
--On Monday, November 26, 2007 13:24:52 -0500 John J Fitzgerald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Can people stop responding to this thread, especially the personal OT back and forth exchanges? I'm on the freebsd-questions list and it's clogging up my inbox and has nothing to do with the FreeBSD operating system. I think most agree the website should be change to exclude the specific reference to Hitler and I'm going to email the freebsd-www list to see if I can get this change made, unless someone has a better suggestion on how to get it changed. Everything else is very OT. Here's one man's plea to stop this thread now. The answer was posted a while ago. Whoever is so motivated should submit a pr to get the page edited. That's how things are done at FreeBSD. And that should end this thread in questions. -- Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: who wrote this
Can people stop responding to this thread, especially the personal OT back and forth exchanges? I'm on the freebsd-questions list and it's clogging up my inbox and has nothing to do with the FreeBSD operating system. I think most agree the website should be change to exclude the specific reference to Hitler and I'm going to email the freebsd-www list to see if I can get this change made, unless someone has a better suggestion on how to get it changed. Everything else is very OT. Here's one man's plea to stop this thread now. -JJF -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marian Hettwer Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:28 PM To: Dominic Fandrey Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Frank Shute; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:51:13 +0100, Dominic Fandrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying >> to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if >> that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is >> that we remove his name from the website: >> (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to >> innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and >> unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of >> insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. >> ... > > Quote from the linked website: >> If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does > not >> contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be > in >> the offensive file. > > I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes > (being > German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to > put > anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. > Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) > context. I do agree with this statement above! Besides I wouldn't like to see the name Hitler on freebsd's website. It just doesn't belong there. Especially when the website is saying, that the quotes are not offensive. Please remove that entry, at least. Thanks, Marian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
So, I haven't yet thought of a good, adequately lean, but clarifying phrase, though if one comes to me I will submit it, but a clarifying phrase could well be included and the hitler example remain with it because it establishes a very strong case-in-point example. How about something like this: http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html === Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Quotes from controversial historical figures, no matter how despicable they were. * Jokes about emacs/vi or your favorite technology, === Or something along these lines. It gets the point accross better than "hitler quotes" and does not upset a segment of our users. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:02:53 + neal wrote: > You want the name 'Hitler' erased from existence. Let the name exist. Else where but the official FreeBSD site. Let this OS be out of politics. WBR -- bsam ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Monday 26 November 2007, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > >Lets also remember that history is written by the > > victors, which means they LIE! > >neal. > > Wow neal, that's very nice of you. What is? Surely this is not the first time you have heard this said about history. > are you saying that > hitler didn't do any of these things? What I was saying was contained in the post, there were no words missing, it was all there, complete. > I'm not even going > to respond to you here, just going to re-post your words > to show that there are still people like you out there... Oh, you took this personally as if it was an insult directed at you. This is one of the problems when viewing with combative mind set. > And as far as your sage to the moon quote, don't think > too much of your own sagedom, there is always someone > younger and smarter. Despite the failure of the 'message', it was honestly sent *to* you not *at* you as you seem to think. how about "we do not see the world as it is but as we are". > You would be better off being a > little less "sagy" and a bit nicer. Thanks, but you are not in a position to determine how I might be better or worse off. > Now to the rest of you who are for some reason turning > this into a Censorship issue. It's not. I'm asking to > replace the text on the HTML front page with a completely > unnecessary reference to hitler. We're not talking about > pruning the quotes database for controversial speakers. > having hitlers name there does nothing positive for the > project and polarizes the viewing audience because it > offends the vast majority of people, 99% of whom are not > going to spend an evening writing to a mailing list to > have the issue fixed. They won't think about the deep > philosophical reasons why this should be there in > principle. They are going to read the page and think to > themselves that the freebsd community are a bunch of > jerks. No, that is what it says to *you*. You are not everyone else. > There are far better ways to express the thought than by > simply saying "hitler quotes". For instance it can be > replaced with "controversial persons" or something > similar. So it is about censorship. You want the name 'Hitler' erased from existence. > He was not the only such person in history, so > we should not be focusing only on him. > Best Regards, > > Artur ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:51:13 +0100, Dominic Fandrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying >> to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if >> that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is >> that we remove his name from the website: >> (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to >> innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and >> unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of >> insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. >> ... > > Quote from the linked website: >> If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does > not >> contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be > in >> the offensive file. > > I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes > (being > German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to > put > anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. > Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) > context. I do agree with this statement above! Besides I wouldn't like to see the name Hitler on freebsd's website. It just doesn't belong there. Especially when the website is saying, that the quotes are not offensive. Please remove that entry, at least. Thanks, Marian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:58:08AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > >On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 03:23:56PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > >>All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. > >>http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > >>== > Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': > * Hitler quotes. > >>== > > > >I think the point is that it does not specifically belong in the offensive > >list just because the author was Hitler, or for that matter any other > >offensive person. Do you want it to say, it doesn't belong in the > >offensive list just because Ronald Reagan said it - or that Limburg guy? > >They are offensive persons. > > > >Well, maybe those _do_ all belong in the offensive list. > > > >But, the above is the meaning for the statement on the page. > > > >jerry > > No Jerry, you misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about which quotes > go into which list. My complaint is about how that web page is structured, > and that its wording should be reworked. No, I didn't misunderstand it. You don't like the way they are describing which goes in to which list. The current wording is saying that it does not specifically belong on the offensive list just because it come from an offensive person. I, not too tongue-in-cheek suggested some other examples who might be used in place of the 'hitler' name that could categorize something coming from an offensive source but not necessarily belong in the offensive list merely because of the source. Actually, I think the original page wording is a little skimpy about the concept, but the example[s] given do very well at illustrating the intended meaning. eg, by just saying that hitler quotes are examples of entries that are not offensive, it leaves to ones ability to misunderstand or misinterpret, the reasoning behind hitler quotes not being offensive entries.One really has to look at the other category to see that it does not fit in the, somewhat better described, offensive list category to pick up the reasoning for it being in the non-offensive list, eg, it ain't one of those so it must be one of these. So, I haven't yet thought of a good, adequately lean, but clarifying phrase, though if one comes to me I will submit it, but a clarifying phrase could well be included and the hitler example remain with it because it establishes a very strong case-in-point example. jerry > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 01:01:42PM +, Frank Shute wrote: > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting > > >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the > > >wrong mailing list. > > > > My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted > > to a list before. > > That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & > selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my > post. > > You also failed to address most of my points. So! He doesn't have any responsibility to respond to all of your posts. He can respond to whichever ones he wants and ignore all the rest. That goes for selectively editing. That is part of the recommended behavior on the list - to edit out the parts not specifically relevant to the response so people don't have to wade through a lot of irrelevant crap to find the actual response. It is as important as that other anti-social behavior called top-posting. jerry ... lots excised ... > > Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. > > Regards, > > -- > Frank > > Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 03:23:56PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == >>Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': >>* Hitler quotes. == I think the point is that it does not specifically belong in the offensive list just because the author was Hitler, or for that matter any other offensive person. Do you want it to say, it doesn't belong in the offensive list just because Ronald Reagan said it - or that Limburg guy? They are offensive persons. Well, maybe those _do_ all belong in the offensive list. But, the above is the meaning for the statement on the page. jerry No Jerry, you misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about which quotes go into which list. My complaint is about how that web page is structured, and that its wording should be reworked. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying > to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if > that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is > that we remove his name from the website: > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of > insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. > ... Quote from the linked website: > If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does not > contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be in > the offensive file. I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes (being German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to put anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) context. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 05:20:22PM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > I might consider the man to be a maniac but he did utter some truths, > > Should we automatically disqualify them? > > Even the devil is right sometimes does that mean we should follow him? Who said anything about following them. Mostly those things are added as wry comments - showing the connection between evil or loose or cynical thinking and evil deeds and letting people notice how those thoughts and rationalizations get repeated in our current society and politics and business. Makes a person go 'hh' or it certainly should. jerry > > Let's see: > > 1 authbaun = 6 million jews > 1 trip to the moon = 50 million russians > 1 vw bug = 20 million brits and americans > 1 war = priceless > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFHSfUlJ9+1V27SttsRAkMJAJ9XsKT7BcgiLjXgdjg24So6P0S5qACgoHWG > zq116oPgBb72nbumjnCpJiY= > =dGDp > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 03:23:56PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. > http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > == > >>Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': > >>* Hitler quotes. > == I think the point is that it does not specifically belong in the offensive list just because the author was Hitler, or for that matter any other offensive person. Do you want it to say, it doesn't belong in the offensive list just because Ronald Reagan said it - or that Limburg guy? They are offensive persons. Well, maybe those _do_ all belong in the offensive list. But, the above is the meaning for the statement on the page. jerry > Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this > garbage? > > Best Regards, > > Artur > eBoundHost.com > http://www.eboundhost.com > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Hm, I'm astonished. I've never seen that page before... English is not my native language and I may not understand all nuances though. Does that phrase mean "Hitler quotes are not usually be declared 'offensive'"? For me that means that there some (and very little) his quotes that should be treated as 'offensive'. Hi Boris, I'm not a native speaker either, but it seems to say that even if hitler said it, it may still be appropriate for the random quotes list. And "astonished" is exactly what I'm feeling too. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
--On Monday, November 26, 2007 09:30:16 -0500 DAve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I read the page as instruction to be attentive to content *and* context. The who matters little in comparison to the what. Fascinating to me that things like the logo and that page can generate so much list mail. That's because people are generally so happy with FreeBSD and ports that they have to find something else to complain about. :-) -- Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the >wrong mailing list. My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted to a list before. That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my post. You also failed to address most of my points. Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on topic. >>Learn to >>moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good >>to >>others. > >Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with >others amongst other things. Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Artur, it was meant to be ironic :) I haven't got the right to stop top posting no more than you have. My apologies, I'm reading everything as an attack now a days. :-) And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. Two points 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in front of non-users. 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we remove his name from the website: (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" by A.Huxley. This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. Done and done. Best regards, Artur ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:30:16 -0500 DAve wrote: > Boris Samorodov wrote: > > English is not my native language and I may not understand all nuances > > though. Does that phrase mean "Hitler quotes are not usually be > > declared 'offensive'"? For me that means that there some (and very > > little) his quotes that should be treated as 'offensive'. > I read the page as instruction to be attentive to content *and* context. So you agreed that the page about Fortune File Commit Policy is not complete. Good. > The who matters little in comparison to the what. Fascinating to me that > things like the logo and that page can generate so much list mail. WBR -- bsam ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Boris Samorodov wrote: > On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:23:56 -0600 eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > >> All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. >> http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html >> == Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Hitler quotes. >> == >> Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed >> this garbage? > > Hm, I'm astonished. I've never seen that page before... > > English is not my native language and I may not understand all nuances > though. Does that phrase mean "Hitler quotes are not usually be > declared 'offensive'"? For me that means that there some (and very > little) his quotes that should be treated as 'offensive'. > > > WBR I read the page as instruction to be attentive to content *and* context. The who matters little in comparison to the what. Fascinating to me that things like the logo and that page can generate so much list mail. DAve -- I've been asking Google for a Veteran's Day logo since 2000, maybe 1999. I was told they finally did a Veteran's Day logo, but none of the links I was given return anything but a normal Google logo. Sad, very sad. Maybe the Chinese Government didn't like it? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:23:56 -0600 eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. > http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > == > >> Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': > >> * Hitler quotes. > == > Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed > this garbage? Hm, I'm astonished. I've never seen that page before... English is not my native language and I may not understand all nuances though. Does that phrase mean "Hitler quotes are not usually be declared 'offensive'"? For me that means that there some (and very little) his quotes that should be treated as 'offensive'. WBR -- bsam ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting > >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the > >wrong mailing list. > > My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted > to a list before. That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my post. You also failed to address most of my points. > > >>Learn to > >>moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good > >>to > >>others. > > > >Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with > >others amongst other things. > > Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Artur, it was meant to be ironic :) I haven't got the right to stop top posting no more than you have. And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" by A.Huxley. Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:03:30 -0600 "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Lets also remember that history is written by the victors, > >which means they LIE! > >neal. > > > Wow neal, that's very nice of you. are you saying that hitler didn't > do any of these things? I'm not even going to respond to you here, > just going to re-post your words to show that there are still people > like you out there... Researching the fascinating set of OT discussions in recent -questions digests has provided three new entries for my favourite quotes file: I shall give a propagandist reason for starting the war, no matter whether it is plausible or not. The victor will not be asked afterwards whether he told the truth or not. When starting and waging war it is not right that matters, but victory. -- Adolf Hitler If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. -- John Kenneth Galbraith For all my early exposure, I didn't get laid until I was 17. -- Ted Mittelstaedt Cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:03:30PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > Wow neal, that's very nice of you. are you saying that hitler didn't do any > of these things? I'm not even going to respond to you here, just going to > re-post your words to show that there are still people like you out there... > > And as far as your sage to the moon quote, don't think too much of your own > sagedom, there is always someone younger and smarter. You would be better > off being a little less "sagy" and a bit nicer. > > Now to the rest of you who are for some reason turning this into a Censorship > issue. It's not. I'm asking to replace the text on the HTML front page with > a completely unnecessary reference to hitler. We're not talking about > pruning the quotes database for controversial speakers. having hitlers name > there does nothing positive for the project and polarizes the viewing > audience because it offends the vast majority of people, 99% of whom are not > going to spend an evening writing to a mailing list to have the issue fixed. > They won't think about the deep philosophical reasons why this should be > there in principle. They are going to read the page and think to themselves > that the freebsd community are a bunch of jerks. > > There are far better ways to express the thought than by simply saying > "hitler quotes". For instance it can be replaced with "controversial > persons" or something similar. He was not the only such person in history, > so we should not be focusing only on him. Since this point has been raised already I won't stick with it too long. It has been pointed out multiple times that this is not the proper forum to debate this point for one. For two if you have submitted your request for the revision to the proper people then _the community_ can take your suggestions under advisement and decide if it really is improper to be using "Hitler quotes" as opposed to some other phrasing. As it is, I think you've extensively made the point for why it was a good choice. The reaction to Hitler should not be such that simply being associated with the name justifies people taking offense. On the flip side of this, saying that it being a Hitler quote doesn't automatically make it offensive doesn't lessen the terrible impact that he actually had, and as such doesn't warrant censorship (Despite your protestations to the contrary, censorship is the very act of removing items deemed offensive to a body). Unless you can come up with a legitimate reason that "Hitler" should be removed, you're not going to bring much sympathy to your cause. --- David Michael Curry (Dave) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> () ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org | Against proprietary extensions ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:03:30 -0600 "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > speakers. having hitlers name there does nothing positive for the > project and polarizes the viewing audience because it offends the > vast majority of people, 99% of whom are not going to spend an > evening writing to a mailing list to have the issue fixed. Without statistics, you can't actually tell for sure: 1. if this is really a prominent page which is getting a lot of hits. 2. if visitors noticed this at all or do/did care. 3. how many visitors were offended, and if it could even be a "vast majority" (when is a majority "vast"?). Just because you care about it (thank you for the heads up), doesn't mean 99% of other visitors did/do: we just can't know because there are no or not enough data to tell. Having said that, the improvement you're suggesting: > There are far better ways to express the thought than by simply saying > "hitler quotes". For instance it can be replaced with "controversial > persons" or something similar. looks quite reasonable to me. So please send-pr a patch to reword this page and have that discussed on the appropriate mailing list. questions@ is probably not the appropriate forum for that. Thank you, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
>Lets also remember that history is written by the victors, >which means they LIE! >neal. Wow neal, that's very nice of you. are you saying that hitler didn't do any of these things? I'm not even going to respond to you here, just going to re-post your words to show that there are still people like you out there... And as far as your sage to the moon quote, don't think too much of your own sagedom, there is always someone younger and smarter. You would be better off being a little less "sagy" and a bit nicer. Now to the rest of you who are for some reason turning this into a Censorship issue. It's not. I'm asking to replace the text on the HTML front page with a completely unnecessary reference to hitler. We're not talking about pruning the quotes database for controversial speakers. having hitlers name there does nothing positive for the project and polarizes the viewing audience because it offends the vast majority of people, 99% of whom are not going to spend an evening writing to a mailing list to have the issue fixed. They won't think about the deep philosophical reasons why this should be there in principle. They are going to read the page and think to themselves that the freebsd community are a bunch of jerks. There are far better ways to express the thought than by simply saying "hitler quotes". For instance it can be replaced with "controversial persons" or something similar. He was not the only such person in history, so we should not be focusing only on him. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: [OT] who wrote this
On Monday 26 November 2007, Brett Davidson wrote: > To give another reason against supression of quotes is > that you tend to emulate the actions of the people's > ideas that you wished suppressed. "The opinion of this > person/group is not worthy of being spread" is but the > thin edge of a fascist wedge. > It effectively states that you know better than the rest > of us and that you are entitled to prevent others from > learning/doing something in their "best interests". > I wish more people would think about that before > attempting to meddle in what others are allowed to do. Good points. It reminds me of a very old mystic quote "when a Sage points to the moon, the idiot sees only a finger" Lets also remember that history is written by the victors, which means they LIE! neal. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting & rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the wrong mailing list. My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted to a list before. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with others amongst other things. Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
I'm not going to reply to your personal attack but will only say that you are definitely much smarter, more web savy and better looking than me. It's not an ``attack'', but merely a request to avoid what may be considered as a ``fault'' of the FreeBSD Project. As far as the rest of your comment, yes, I am only interested in removing the reference to hitler from the front page of that topic that's all. And unfortunately I do not know how to post patches to the freebsd-www list so if you would be so kind as to send me an email with a pointer, I would sincerely appreciate it. You don't have to spend a lot of time working with HTML, SGML or the CVS tree. A mere proposal for a text that improves what you consider buggy in the web page, should be fine. We can do the rest. - Giorgos Ok, thank you, I will submit the proposed changes. I appreciate your reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On 2007-11-25 19:43, "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> If you are not bothered by the fact that the fortune cookie database >> contains Hitler quotes, but you merely want to ammend the text of the >> web site, then you are more than welcome to post patches to the >> freebsd-www list. That's where most of the work on the website is >> discussed, and reviewed > > I'm not going to reply to your personal attack but will only say that you > are definitely much smarter, more web savy and better looking than me. It's not an ``attack'', but merely a request to avoid what may be considered as a ``fault'' of the FreeBSD Project. > As far as the rest of your comment, yes, I am only interested in > removing the reference to hitler from the front page of that topic > that's all. And unfortunately I do not know how to post patches to > the freebsd-www list so if you would be so kind as to send me an email > with a pointer, I would sincerely appreciate it. You don't have to spend a lot of time working with HTML, SGML or the CVS tree. A mere proposal for a text that improves what you consider buggy in the web page, should be fine. We can do the rest. - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[OT] who wrote this
Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: T, I don't know any soft way to say this. The man, Hitler, was the most evil person that our generation has ever witnessed. The things he did this is why he has to be quoted so people see from where certain ideas originate. I live in a country where many things are - knowingly or unknowingly - copied from this guy. What really gets me is the fact that this is one of the examples put on the FreeBSD page. I'm all for freedom and libertarian ideals, but for You can promote freedom only if you are able to describe the opposite. Well said. I don't want to outlaw anything, but have some good taste. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. You must make people aware. If people are not aware - this was the most common excuse of Germans after the war - they will never ever support any actions against something. I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. I hope, you will not find this person. Just for your information. Parts of my family were active against Hitler until the collapse of the Third Reich. I think, that you are not able to understand the possible unawareness if you have not experienced it just after 1945. A very high percentage of Germans simply could not imagine or did not believe what was going on around them. Surpressing even quotes like them here, is the first step to make people feel as they live in a perfect world. Erich To give another reason against supression of quotes is that you tend to emulate the actions of the people's ideas that you wished suppressed. "The opinion of this person/group is not worthy of being spread" is but the thin edge of a fascist wedge. It effectively states that you know better than the rest of us and that you are entitled to prevent others from learning/doing something in their "best interests". I wish more people would think about that before attempting to meddle in what others are allowed to do. Brett. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Erik, This is a very wise thing that you just said, and I agree with you almost completely. The difference is that your very own words are a brilliant way to say it, and would be wonderful to replace the "Hitler quotes" that is there now. So, if someone would replace it with your quote, I would be completely satisfied: the speaker of the quote is not to be the basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. In fact, I do not think that the quotes should be removed from the database itself, my only objection is that by having "hitler quotes" on the front page, we are virtually monopolizing the page to this topic. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - From: "Erik Osterholm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: Re: who wrote this On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 05:53:54PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross without giving any extra attention to this monster. Best Regards, Artur Do I understand correctly that you are not concerned so much with the inclusion of quotes by Adolf Hitler, but you don't like the way the web page is presented? If that's the case, my argument for maintaining the current state of the webpage is that it's going to become a repeated issue. Without the notice that Hitler quotes are not automatically considered offensive, a lot of people will probably see a non-offensive Hitler quote and argue that it should be moved to the offensive file simply due to the attribution. Put another way, the quote "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." is not considered offensive. Merely adding the attribution, then, should not cause it to be moved to the "offensive" file. That said, people have argued in the past that it should be, simply because Hitler is in the text. Putting the notice on the webpage at http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html is a public expression that the speaker of the quote is not to be the basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
If you are not bothered by the fact that the fortune cookie database contains Hitler quotes, but you merely want to ammend the text of the web site, then you are more than welcome to post patches to the freebsd-www list. That's where most of the work on the website is discussed, and reviewed. - Giorgos I'm not going to reply to your personal attack but will only say that you are definitely much smarter, more web savy and better looking than me. As far as the rest of your comment, yes, I am only interested in removing the reference to hitler from the front page of that topic that's all. And unfortunately I do not know how to post patches to the freebsd-www list so if you would be so kind as to send me an email with a pointer, I would sincerely appreciate it. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 05:53:54PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > T, > > I don't know any soft way to say this. The man, Hitler, was the most evil > person that our generation has ever witnessed. He wasn't witnessed by our generation & IMHO Stalin was worse. > The things he did and what was done on his behalf are unspeakable > and give him a special place in whatever hell you believe in. I don't believe in hell - any sort of hell. > As a society, we should distance ourselves and shun any imagery that > puts any kind of human side to this monster. Why should we stop putting any human side to him? He was clearly a human being. > Saying that he loved dogs and was an art afficionado is completely > irrelevant if you know anything about his actions. Because it shows him to be a human being? > > There are far more worthy quotes that can be put into FreeBSD and I don't > think its debateable. You don't think it's debatable, but I do. > > What really gets me is the fact that this is one of the examples put on the > FreeBSD page. I'm all for freedom and libertarian ideals, but for petes' > sake, have some compassion and understand where your liberty crosses over > into the pain of someone else's family. Why didn't they put on that page > along with "quotes about hitler", "jokes about cancer" and "funny rape > stories." Good idea! Anybody got any good cancer or rape gags we can put in fortune? > > I don't want to outlaw anything, but have some good taste. You *do* want to outlaw things on the grounds of "taste". > Learn to > moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to > others. Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with others amongst other things. > > I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to > modify the text on this page. > http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross without > giving any extra attention to this monster. It's a good example and shouldn't be changed IMO. PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting & rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the wrong mailing list. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
Hi, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: T, I don't know any soft way to say this. The man, Hitler, was the most evil person that our generation has ever witnessed. The things he did this is why he has to be quoted so people see from where certain ideas originate. I live in a country where many things are - knowingly or unknowingly - copied from this guy. What really gets me is the fact that this is one of the examples put on the FreeBSD page. I'm all for freedom and libertarian ideals, but for You can promote freedom only if you are able to describe the opposite. I don't want to outlaw anything, but have some good taste. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. You must make people aware. If people are not aware - this was the most common excuse of Germans after the war - they will never ever support any actions against something. I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. I hope, you will not find this person. Just for your information. Parts of my family were active against Hitler until the collapse of the Third Reich. I think, that you are not able to understand the possible unawareness if you have not experienced it just after 1945. A very high percentage of Germans simply could not imagine or did not believe what was going on around them. Surpressing even quotes like them here, is the first step to make people feel as they live in a perfect world. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 05:53:54PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can > help to > modify the text on this page. > http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross > without > giving any extra attention to this monster. > > Best Regards, > > Artur Do I understand correctly that you are not concerned so much with the inclusion of quotes by Adolf Hitler, but you don't like the way the web page is presented? If that's the case, my argument for maintaining the current state of the webpage is that it's going to become a repeated issue. Without the notice that Hitler quotes are not automatically considered offensive, a lot of people will probably see a non-offensive Hitler quote and argue that it should be moved to the offensive file simply due to the attribution. Put another way, the quote "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." is not considered offensive. Merely adding the attribution, then, should not cause it to be moved to the "offensive" file. That said, people have argued in the past that it should be, simply because Hitler is in the text. Putting the notice on the webpage at http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html is a public expression that the speaker of the quote is not to be the basis for categorizing the quote as offensive. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
I'll take up the challenge. Hitler was evil. Quoting Hitler is not. > When we seek to suppress information, no matter how troubling, we obscure > the very lessons of history we need most to learn. If, because Hitler was > evil, we do not allow discussion of him, how will future generations learn > of his evil? As we argue this very point, there are people in the world > insisting that the holocaust never happened, that Hitler did not commit > the evil deeds that history has recorded he *did* commit. If we refuse to > speak of him, those who insist he wasn't evil will win the argument by > default. > --- I believe that myself..evil people can still be brilliant, and can in retrospect, teach us a lot about ourselves as a human race. Were all animals, capable of horrible or fantastic things. What we do with that knowledge and power is the real problem. What genre of quoteable will we be debating next? MANY people worldwide hate/despise many things. If we begin here, where does it end? Will we be discussing a kernel level "hitler" filter next? C'mon, I believe that most reasonable people can separate the actions of someone from their words from a historically relevant point of view. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On 2007-11-25 17:59, "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yea that's a great answer. thanks for your insight. this is not some > technical question that can be researched, this in fact tarnishes the > image of the freebsd community, so it's not such an easy "go rtfm" > type of deal. The commit logs of the entire FreeBSD source tree are openly visible to everyone. A couple of minutes with Google Groups would be enough to locate this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/fa.freebsd.cvs-all/browse_thread/thread/ee66a0ebc1457b1f/7ea396d642a58806 This is the sort of "research" that I wanted to point you at. > problem is that i just came accross it myself and obviously nothing > has been done about it in the past. The fact that you didn't notice the old commit logs, does not mean that ``nothing has been done about this issue in the past''. Please stop spreading FUD about FreeBSD, because implying that we don't care as a team about these things suggests to readers of freebsd-questions things which are untrue. There are intriguing but nevertheless interesting observations in the thread mentioned above. Please take the time to let some of them sink in before you spread more FUD. > so i would like to ask of people, is there no better way to get the > point accross? do you have to have this wording? is it set in stone > and can't be changed? I insist strongly that we should rework this > example, and if anyone insists strongly on not doing it, I would like > to understand what motive can be possibly behind this other than > something very deeply evil. If you are not bothered by the fact that the fortune cookie database contains Hitler quotes, but you merely want to ammend the text of the web site, then you are more than welcome to post patches to the freebsd-www list. That's where most of the work on the website is discussed, and reviewed. - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
--On November 25, 2007 5:59:53 PM -0600 "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: yea that's a great answer. thanks for your insight. this is not some technical question that can be researched, this in fact tarnishes the image of the freebsd community, so it's not such an easy "go rtfm" type of deal. problem is that i just came accross it myself and obviously nothing has been done about it in the past. so i would like to ask of people, is there no better way to get the point accross? do you have to have this wording? is it set in stone and can't be changed? I insist strongly that we should rework this example, and if anyone insists strongly on not doing it, I would like to understand what motive can be possibly behind this other than something very deeply evil. I'll take up the challenge. Hitler was evil. Quoting Hitler is not. When we seek to suppress information, no matter how troubling, we obscure the very lessons of history we need most to learn. If, because Hitler was evil, we do not allow discussion of him, how will future generations learn of his evil? As we argue this very point, there are people in the world insisting that the holocaust never happened, that Hitler did not commit the evil deeds that history has recorded he *did* commit. If we refuse to speak of him, those who insist he wasn't evil will win the argument by default. Surely that is not what you desire? Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
yea that's a great answer. thanks for your insight. this is not some technical question that can be researched, this in fact tarnishes the image of the freebsd community, so it's not such an easy "go rtfm" type of deal. problem is that i just came accross it myself and obviously nothing has been done about it in the past. so i would like to ask of people, is there no better way to get the point accross? do you have to have this wording? is it set in stone and can't be changed? I insist strongly that we should rework this example, and if anyone insists strongly on not doing it, I would like to understand what motive can be possibly behind this other than something very deeply evil. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - From: "Giorgos Keramidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:46 PM Subject: Re: who wrote this On 2007-11-25 15:23, "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Hitler quotes. == Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this garbage? There have been long and vicious discussions about this particular issue, on several mailing lists. Please refer to the archives, because repeating the whole shebang is not really a productive use of everyone's time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
T, I don't know any soft way to say this. The man, Hitler, was the most evil person that our generation has ever witnessed. The things he did and what was done on his behalf are unspeakable and give him a special place in whatever hell you believe in. As a society, we should distance ourselves and shun any imagery that puts any kind of human side to this monster. Saying that he loved dogs and was an art afficionado is completely irrelevant if you know anything about his actions. There are far more worthy quotes that can be put into FreeBSD and I don't think its debateable. What really gets me is the fact that this is one of the examples put on the FreeBSD page. I'm all for freedom and libertarian ideals, but for petes' sake, have some compassion and understand where your liberty crosses over into the pain of someone else's family. Why didn't they put on that page along with "quotes about hitler", "jokes about cancer" and "funny rape stories." I don't want to outlaw anything, but have some good taste. Learn to moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good to others. I would appreciate if someone would help me find the person who can help to modify the text on this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html I think it can be worded differently and get the point accross without giving any extra attention to this monster. Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com - Original Message - Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: RE: who wrote this I see that as an example of something that might be offensive on the surface but we might not want to outlaw just as a matter of course. For instance if someone submitted this for the fortune rotation: x Or x Or x I might consider the man to be a maniac but he did utter some truths, Should we automatically disqualify them? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
On 2007-11-25 15:23, "eBoundHost: Artur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. > http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html > == >>> Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': >>> * Hitler quotes. > == > Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed > this garbage? There have been long and vicious discussions about this particular issue, on several mailing lists. Please refer to the archives, because repeating the whole shebang is not really a productive use of everyone's time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: who wrote this
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I might consider the man to be a maniac but he did utter some truths, > Should we automatically disqualify them? Even the devil is right sometimes does that mean we should follow him? Let's see: 1 authbaun = 6 million jews 1 trip to the moon = 50 million russians 1 vw bug = 20 million brits and americans 1 war = priceless -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHSfUlJ9+1V27SttsRAkMJAJ9XsKT7BcgiLjXgdjg24So6P0S5qACgoHWG zq116oPgBb72nbumjnCpJiY= =dGDp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: who wrote this
I see that as an example of something that might be offensive on the surface but we might not want to outlaw just as a matter of course. For instance if someone submitted this for the fortune rotation: Germany will either be a world power or will not be at all. Adolf Hitler Or He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. Adolf Hitler Or How fortunate for leaders that men do not think. Adolf Hitler I might consider the man to be a maniac but he did utter some truths, Should we automatically disqualify them? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of eBoundHost: Artur Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:24 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: who wrote this All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == >> Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': >> * Hitler quotes. == Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this garbage? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
who wrote this
All I have to say is WTF is wrong with whomever wrote this page. http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html == Examples of entries that should not usually be declared 'offensive': * Hitler quotes. == Ok I understand that some moron wrote it, but why has nobody removed this garbage? Best Regards, Artur eBoundHost.com http://www.eboundhost.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"