Testing - my emails don't seem to be getting through
I've been getting a lot of rejections: Helo command rejected: Host not found (in reply to RCPT TO command). So now I'm running a test to see if this one will get through. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uptime 2 years!
On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 10:52 -0400, Mikel King wrote: On Oct 8, 2008, at 9:00 PM, Chad Marshall wrote: No Problem, I figured that there are other systems out there with a longer uptime. I have this server as a postfix/courier-imap/ squirrelmail (60+ accounts and 30-40 forwards) mailserver with apache/php/mysql. Also use it as a slave authoritative nameserver for over 100 zones (one zone with a 60sec TTL on a high volume production website) as well. Plus use it as a primary nameserver for our entire office (300+ workstations). I was lazy with it (Upgrading or Replacing) and when it hit a year, I decided to hold off doing anything with it as I wanted to see how long I could let it go. It's a celeron 2.4ghz server with 512m Ram and has been a champ server in it's performance and stability. I use CentOS for most of my other systems and find that as easy as it is for administration and upgrading, it lacks FreeBSD's performance. With the memory leaks that CentOS has, I usually have to end up restarting the machine(s). With FreeBSD I can just restart the services, and got my memory back and reduce the amount of swap being used. Regardless of the first email I got back (Which was a little rude), I will continue to run this server as long as I can and monitor the security risks using DenyHosts and other security measures. Thanks, On Oct 8, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Frank Shute wrote: On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 08:54:47AM -0700, Chad Marshall wrote: Hello, Would like to share a success story which I'm sure you've had in the past but one of my servers running FreeBSD will have an uptime of 2 years tomorrow. I plan on putting on my blog but as it doesn't have much reach but wanted to share with you since your community has made this possible. Please indicate where I could post this to have a bit more reach or if you'd like to put a link to my blog, I'd be more than happy to provide that. Best Regards, Sorry to rain on your parade: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-chat/2008-October/005719.html Regards, -- Frank I think this is good news, and thanks for posting it. While it may not be a record holder, from an advocacy point of view it's nice to see. It means there one more rock solid server out there. Here, here... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uptime 2 years!
On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 10:03 -0500, Paul Schmehl wrote: --On Thursday, October 09, 2008 09:34:02 -0500 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 07:07:31AM -0700, Chad Marshall wrote: Sorry to bother you...You know, you could just leave well enough alone if you don't care. There goes any future donations from me and my organization as this is more than the first untactful email I recieved from this, I'll donate and use other platforms. Please don't send any other emails Kind of touchy, wouldn't you think? People are giving you some perspective. Well, anyway, you have the choice of using a superior system or let scratchy responses lead you to something less suitable. When I was a young boy, I went on vacation with my family to a lake in upper Minnesota. (My mother's ancestral home.) The weather was beautiful, the water was warm and inviting, the swimming was thoroughly enjoyable and the cabin we stayed in was luxurious (by the standards of a little boy.) However, my mother said something to me that mad me angry. To punish her, I stomped off in a huff and spent the remainder of the vacation scowling in the cabin. I refused to swim until she corrected the perceived injustice. Needless to say, my punishment caused me a great deal more consternation than it did her, or my siblings who were all happily enjoying the water and the boating and the entire lovely vacation while I fumed in the cabin. Self-inflicted wounds are often the most painful of all. You do present a very good point here, but in some ways the OP has a point. This list is by far the most supportive and helpful lists I've come across, it would be nice to keep this attribute and not slip off into the geeks only attitude. That said, the post probably should have been sent to the chat list and not here. I'm not trying to start an argument, just offer an outside perspective. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uptime 2 years!
On Thu, 2008-10-09 at 07:50 -0700, Chad Marshall wrote: Here's what I said to the last guy who says my skin is thin, just leave well enough alone and drop it please. Seems your skin is thin as well if you can't handle a little back talk :) Well, I can always except critism. The problem is that I don't need rude responses for something I thought would be something to share for your organization, a success story of FreeBSD. Only for people to call me lazy and say Big Deal. If it's not a big deal, than say nothing. Maybe you should put someone in charge of answering emails who aren't cocky and smug, some responses were nice and at least supportive. I still believe in FreeBSD and it's a great OS. It's the nix I started and learned with but I think your community is full of conceited, pompous asses, the reason I don't like to associate with IT people. I'd rather not give money to someone who has to insult me. If you go to a restaurant and you get a rude waiter, what do you do? I don't go back or give them a crap tip. Maybe you should try the fedora list then? You'll be wishing you hadn't left this one... :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Excuse me- just testing...
Been having trouble posting with a new mail server (only to your server mind)- just trying sort it out. Cheers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 06:46 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 04:55:11AM -0400, Michael Powell wrote: [snip] Next, you will want to configure your FreeBSD machine as a NAT gateway. In your /etc/rc.conf you will want something like gateway_enable=YES and some form of firewall initialization[1]. The gateway_enable is what allows the forwarding of packets between your rl0 and your rl1, but the activation of NAT functionality is usually a function contained within a firewall. So conceptually, the firewall will be in between rl0 and rl1. There are three different firewalls you can choose from. Configuring the firewall is usually where the inexperienced get stuck. This subject material is beyond the scope of this missive, and you would do well to start reading in the Handbook. But essentially, when you configure NAT in the firewall your rl0 (connected to the ISP) will be assigned a Public IP address and the NAT function will translate between Public and Private. With respect to NAT, the caveat here is the assumption that your DSL/Cable modem is *not* already performing NAT. The situation you do not want to get into is having *two* NATs. The content herein is assuming that the external (rl0) interface is getting assigned a Public IP from the ISP. If this is the case wouldn't the OP set router_enable=YES instead of gateway? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uptime 2 years!
I love the direction this thread has taken. First, humorous, then it will turn into flames. I bet all my US$:-) Unfortunately that doesn't really offer much value anymore with the recent market downturn- got anything else to offer? Sorry- couldn't resist... :P ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
Unless the question is as broad as 'how do I learn about FreeBSD' it is worthwhile to help the person aim that shotgun or exchange it for a rifle. Interesting analogy- I like it :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 04:10 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:40:48PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 06:46 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 04:55:11AM -0400, Michael Powell wrote: [snip] Next, you will want to configure your FreeBSD machine as a NAT gateway. In your /etc/rc.conf you will want something like gateway_enable=YES and some form of firewall initialization[1]. The gateway_enable is what allows the forwarding of packets between your rl0 and your rl1, but the activation of NAT functionality is usually a function contained within a firewall. So conceptually, the firewall will be in between rl0 and rl1. There are three different firewalls you can choose from. Configuring the firewall is usually where the inexperienced get stuck. This subject material is beyond the scope of this missive, and you would do well to start reading in the Handbook. But essentially, when you configure NAT in the firewall your rl0 (connected to the ISP) will be assigned a Public IP address and the NAT function will translate between Public and Private. With respect to NAT, the caveat here is the assumption that your DSL/Cable modem is *not* already performing NAT. The situation you do not want to get into is having *two* NATs. The content herein is assuming that the external (rl0) interface is getting assigned a Public IP from the ISP. If this is the case wouldn't the OP set router_enable=YES instead of gateway? No. router_enable causes routed(8) to run, which allows for announcements and withdraws of network routes via RIPv1/v2. This is something completely different than forwarding packets. What the OP wants is to route packets from his private LAN (e.g. 192.168.0.0/16) on to the Internet using NAT. That means he has to have a NAT gateway of some kind that forwards and translates packets. That means he needs gateway_enable=yes, which allows IPv4 forwarding to happen through the FreeBSD box. In layman's terms, it allows the FreeBSD box to be used a Gateway for other computers which are connected to it directly. Ok, then. So it would be gateway_enable, but no nat_enable? (To avoid double nat'ing) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Virtual mail and mailman
Before I go off rashly and join another mailing list or two, might I enquire here regarding the difference between virtual alias' and virtual mailboxes from mailman's point of view? I've been googling, but I'm as confused as ever... What I have is vmailboxes on postfix (with a courier frontend) and I want to setup a mailing list server for at least some of the domains postfix is hosting. According to mailman docs it will only use virtual alias' to run. Based on my current configuration (which I'd like to keep for simplicity), how do I reconcile this? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 21:19 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:15:49AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 04:10 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 08:40:48PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 06:46 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 04:55:11AM -0400, Michael Powell wrote: [snip] Next, you will want to configure your FreeBSD machine as a NAT gateway. In your /etc/rc.conf you will want something like gateway_enable=YES and some form of firewall initialization[1]. The gateway_enable is what allows the forwarding of packets between your rl0 and your rl1, but the activation of NAT functionality is usually a function contained within a firewall. So conceptually, the firewall will be in between rl0 and rl1. There are three different firewalls you can choose from. Configuring the firewall is usually where the inexperienced get stuck. This subject material is beyond the scope of this missive, and you would do well to start reading in the Handbook. But essentially, when you configure NAT in the firewall your rl0 (connected to the ISP) will be assigned a Public IP address and the NAT function will translate between Public and Private. With respect to NAT, the caveat here is the assumption that your DSL/Cable modem is *not* already performing NAT. The situation you do not want to get into is having *two* NATs. The content herein is assuming that the external (rl0) interface is getting assigned a Public IP from the ISP. If this is the case wouldn't the OP set router_enable=YES instead of gateway? No. router_enable causes routed(8) to run, which allows for announcements and withdraws of network routes via RIPv1/v2. This is something completely different than forwarding packets. What the OP wants is to route packets from his private LAN (e.g. 192.168.0.0/16) on to the Internet using NAT. That means he has to have a NAT gateway of some kind that forwards and translates packets. That means he needs gateway_enable=yes, which allows IPv4 forwarding to happen through the FreeBSD box. In layman's terms, it allows the FreeBSD box to be used a Gateway for other computers which are connected to it directly. Ok, then. So it would be gateway_enable, but no nat_enable? (To avoid double nat'ing) Do you mean firewall_nat_enable, natd_enable, or ipnat_enable? :-) See /etc/defaults/rc.conf. grin Actually I'm not sure... I'm just an innocent bystander :) Throughout the thread there was mention of enabling nat in the rc.conf, so whichever that was... My consideration was just in general. Someone mentioned enabling nat, another said don't double nat, so I thought routed would be better. But it seems routed is not the way to go, but to keep gateway_enable: question remains as to whether to use nat or not (I suppose in any form; but if you can enlighten me with regard if one form of nat is better than another especially in the case of double nat then I'd appreciate the information). The main reason I'm bring up this issue is to clarify (and possibly the OP will then get a better picture too) of precisely how to accomplish the result required. And maybe increase my knowledge of the subject too :) thats always a good thing. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:22 -0700, mdh wrote: --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Da Rock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Da Rock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 1:04 AM grin Actually I'm not sure... I'm just an innocent bystander :) Throughout the thread there was mention of enabling nat in the rc.conf, so whichever that was... My consideration was just in general. Someone mentioned enabling nat, another said don't double nat, so I thought routed would be better. But it seems routed is not the way to go, but to keep gateway_enable: question remains as to whether to use nat or not (I suppose in any form; but if you can enlighten me with regard if one form of nat is better than another especially in the case of double nat then I'd appreciate the information). The main reason I'm bring up this issue is to clarify (and possibly the OP will then get a better picture too) of precisely how to accomplish the result required. And maybe increase my knowledge of the subject too :) thats always a good thing. Essentially, you need three things to accomplish nat'ing via the way I'm going to describe. There're several ways to do it, but I'll only cover one here, because to describe others, I'd need to go look up docs, which you're more than welcome to do for yourself if you don't like the way I'm going to touch on. First, you need gateway_enable set to yes in /etc/rc.conf. This is universally true regardless of which method you use for nat'ing. What this does is instruct the kernel that it has multiple interfaces, and that it must pass packets across them, acting as a router. This has nothing to do with various route discovery protocols, it only sets a sysctl which tells the kernel to route packets across multiple interfaces. The default behavior is for the kernel not to do so. Second, you'll need some way for your NAT to get packets. In some cases, the NAT method is built into the way that it gets packets. With the way I'm discussing here, it's not. In this case, we'll use `ipfw`. You'll need a kernel that supports ipfw for this to work, obviously. The rule you'll need should look something like this: divert 8668 ip4 from any to any via sis0 Where sis0 is your EXTERNAL network interface (ie, the one facing your cable modem, modem, or whatever else.) The command to add this should look something like: `ipfw add rule number divert 8668 ip4 from any to any via interface` where rule number is the rule number you'll use (it should be a low one!) and interface is your external-facing network interface device. Third, you'll need natd itself. natd can be enabled via - you guessed it - the rc.conf variable natd_enable. That's not all, though. You'll also need to (in rc.conf) set natd_interface to the interface you specified in the firewall rule, and you'll almost certainly want to set natd_flags to -u. So all in all, you'll need the ipfw rule, ipfw enabled in your kernel, and the following lines in rc.conf: gateway_enable=YES natd_program=/sbin/natd natd_enable=YES natd_interface=sis0 natd_flags=-u You may also need to run dhclient or somesuch to get an address from your ISP, but that's a whole other story. Enjoy. - mdh Been there, done that before (at the time I was merely fumbling, but I have greater experience now)... interesting point in that is the fact that natd_enable tells the kernel to pass packets between interfaces. I'm assuming the problem with double nat'ing is the confusion in packet traffic. So if the OP is using his ADSL modem to connect to the net, then it could be safe to assume the public IP would be to the modem itself, and not his box (barring the possible use of USB), so then the nat'ing would already be done. Therefore, the best and easiest way would be to simply bridge his interfaces- correct? Less overheads, etc, plus simplicity of setup. Oh I love a good hypothetical- it lets me experiment with systems without touching anything or breaking it :) The fact that someone else might build on their knowledge is just a cherry on top. I've not come across another list that so freely shares knowledge... its great! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 06:54 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: Da Rock wrote: [snip] I'm assuming the problem with double nat'ing is the confusion in packet traffic. So if the OP is using his ADSL modem to connect to the net, then it could be safe to assume the public IP would be to the modem itself, and not his box (barring the possible use of USB), so then the nat'ing would already be done. Therefore, the best and easiest way would be to simply bridge his interfaces- correct? Less overheads, etc, plus simplicity of setup. There is another option, a variant of which I use. My el cheapo deluxe DSL modem has really crappy broken firewall and DNS implementations. Wireshark showed Windows Messenger service spam leaking past and as soon as I saw that I assumed it was probably the tip of the iceberg. You can also bridge the modem (disabling it's NAT as well). In a fully bridged configuration your FreeBSD gateway will have to perform PPPoE handshake and login as well. Setting up the modem itself this way can be tricky at times, depending on the model and the service. One gotcha with this method can be if your ISP is using heartbeat, and so you'll have to either script yourself or find one that suits. I use a second option called split-bridge, which they have named IP Passthrough. This allows the DSL modem to be responsible for the PPPoE session. It works by passing the WAN public IP to the Internet facing NIC in my FreeBSD box via DHCP. So, while my interior LAN NIC is static, my outside NIC is ifconfig_xl0=DHCP. It gets assigned whatever IP Verizon sends. Is this also called IP spoofing? I just like this particular arrangement better. I run a caching/hybrid DNS server on the gateway as well. I've used this configuration for about 2 years now and it has served me well. I also use ALTQ to prioritize outgoing acks, as this seems to be helpful when using asymmetric DSL. Sounds very stable- I might have to look into the ALTQ (one day, when I finally get through my other projects... :) ). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to get my Dad's Win2k system to access internet through my FreeBSD 6.2 system
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 04:43 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 09:29:04PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 06:54 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: Da Rock wrote: [snip] I'm assuming the problem with double nat'ing is the confusion in packet traffic. So if the OP is using his ADSL modem to connect to the net, then it could be safe to assume the public IP would be to the modem itself, and not his box (barring the possible use of USB), so then the nat'ing would already be done. Therefore, the best and easiest way would be to simply bridge his interfaces- correct? Less overheads, etc, plus simplicity of setup. There is another option, a variant of which I use. My el cheapo deluxe DSL modem has really crappy broken firewall and DNS implementations. Wireshark showed Windows Messenger service spam leaking past and as soon as I saw that I assumed it was probably the tip of the iceberg. You can also bridge the modem (disabling it's NAT as well). In a fully bridged configuration your FreeBSD gateway will have to perform PPPoE handshake and login as well. Setting up the modem itself this way can be tricky at times, depending on the model and the service. One gotcha with this method can be if your ISP is using heartbeat, and so you'll have to either script yourself or find one that suits. I use a second option called split-bridge, which they have named IP Passthrough. This allows the DSL modem to be responsible for the PPPoE session. It works by passing the WAN public IP to the Internet facing NIC in my FreeBSD box via DHCP. So, while my interior LAN NIC is static, my outside NIC is ifconfig_xl0=DHCP. It gets assigned whatever IP Verizon sends. Is this also called IP spoofing? No, this is **NOT** IP spoofing. What Michael's describing is a feature many DSL modems offer. There is no official term for what it is, since DSL modems are supposed to be bridges (layer 2 devices), but in fact this feature causes the modem to act like something that sits between layer 2 and layer 3 -- yet is not a router. Different modems call it something different. If you enable this feature, what happens is this: The modem requires you to access its administrative web page. You insert your PPPoE Username and Password (which it saves to NVRAM/EEPROM), and click Connect. The DSL modem then continues to do the PPPoE encapsulation, so that your FreeBSD box, Windows box, or whatever (that's connected to the DSL modem on the LAN port) does not have to. The modem is given an IP address as part of the PPPoE hand-off. That IP address is, of course, a public Internet IP. The modem also enables use of a DHCP server, so that a machine connect to its LAN port can do a DHCP request and get an IP address -- but here's the kicker. The IP address the modem returns to the machine on the LAN is the public IP address the ISP gave the modem via PPPoE. So how does this work? All network I/O between the LAN port and the modem itself is done at layer 2 past that point -- meaning, the modem acts almost purely as a bridge from that point forward: but it still does the PPPoE encapsulation for you. So, like I said, the modem acts like a device that sits between layer 2 and layer 3. Does this make more sense? The reason this feature is HIGHLY desired is because not all PPPoE implementations are compatible with an ISPs implementation. It is *always* best to use whatever equipment they give you or guarantee works with them; using your own, or some other PPPoE daemon/method, can result in lots of trouble. I've personally used this method, I might add. I can give you reference material on how to set it up and use it, over at dslreports.com. Lots of DSL modems these days offer said feature. Ok, that explains it. The IP spoofing term comes from the Alcatel SpeedTouch systems used by Telstra in Oz. If there is no official term for it then thats why they've decided to call it that- right or wrong. They use firmware updates to enable this feature or others, and can be botched easily so for reference copy the original firmware as a backup if possible! It certainly would save trouble with their equipment because of the heartbeat feature. Sounds very cool... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messenger servers
I haven't checked the list for around a week- I'm still catching up! :) I'm trying to sort out a messenger server for work purposes, and although I've found a few I'm hoping some input from sysadmins who have deployed these might help our decision. I've found Gale, Jabberd2, OpenFire, and SJECS (Sun Java Communication Suite). Our requirements are for collaboration (multiple users simultaneous chatting together- with audio/video if possible), realtime audio/video (with a preference for audio; ergo video can go to the dogs to maintain audio quality, although a means to adjust this- on the fly if possible- would be useful), and chat. Tall order, eh? Ease of admin would be good, but my main concern is stability and reliability (I'll make up a software solution to administrate if needs be). Thanks guys. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (no subject)
On Thu, 2008-11-06 at 19:45 -0500, SAM HAYNES wrote: Greetings, O Learned Ones from: Sam Haynes, Pathfinders 2008 I haven't the foggiest as to how you came to be in my favorites list, other than that I probably tagged you in an ongoing search for both or either something to replace Win XP and or build my own personal server. I have been usining XP for several years now. Recently, I tried to install XP from my OEM cd and was notified by Gates and Company that XP would no longer be supported. Bummer! So what else is new? Time to part company with Bill? Vista was tha final straw. I need something that will replace XP in all the essentials but without a useless bag full of coverups for poor performance.. Debian was the first encouraging encounter. It was recommended as a cheap entry into the personal server concept, using a two to three year old PC chassis. Sounded good but I could never figure out just how to download it. So, FreeBSD appears in my fave list and server appears in the same paragraph as operating system. Here is my plan. I am 76, a retired Master Electrician, PC builder since '87, have a wife of 40 plus years, debilitating medical problems and a strong belief that I can milk a living out of internet affiliate marketing despite the current economic crisis. My current model is to generate a basic website, use my existing isp to promote two consistent converting products, bootstrap the proceeds from that into building my own dedicated server to market 'how-to' products over a hundred or more websites. All using ready to serve apps and a WYSIWYG HTML generator. I appreciate your time reading this over long monologue... I'd appreciate it even more if you could take some time to throw some suggestions back at me.. Thanks, Sam I Am, PATHFINDERS 2008 Perhaps you should try the linux distros first to get a bit of a feel of *nix variants? FreeBSD can be daunting to the first time user, but is one hell of a production system once you know how to handle it properly. Maybe start with Ubuntu rather than Debian straight off (I never quite worked out how to download Debian either... wierd bunch that :) ), it is a bit like a half way house for new users, and helps out with some of the usual administrative tasks. Fedora is another good one, but the support is better with ubuntu, plus the Ubuntu is more forgiving admin wise. In any case I'd say you'll be in for a steep learning curve, but at least the gradient is not as sharp when you start with Ubuntu. Keep watching this list, it'll answer any questions you have (no matter how silly they may seem to experienced users, and without most of the condescension you'll find on a lot of lists- Ubuntu support is similar to this list), and read the handbook, and eventually you'll be able to tame one of the most powerful operating systems in the computing world and put it to work for you. Some servers have been going for months and even years without stopping (depending on security required and experience of the admin), so it is rock solid. Good luck! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Port Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD?
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 09:33 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 10:52:08PM -0800, Mike Price wrote: Hello guys, Is there a port like Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD? I would like to move to FreeBSD as soon as possible. You could try the gimp for manipulating bitmap images. For creating vector images, try either inkscape or xaralx. They're all in ports. i have a friend that do offset printing. he have to use windoze and photoshop for only one reason - gimp doesn't support editing CMYK images Actually it does have limited support. I do printing myself, and I refuse to use M$ crap. To be able to do the job I use Gimp for some editing (making sure to use the CMYK ICC) and it will save in a RGB format. I then use scribus with the same ICC to save in CMYK and final layout. It works very well in fact. Consider Gimp like Photoshop and Scribus like Illustrator. For help and tips try meet the gimp, he offers an podcast in tips and tricks in Gimp (and sometimes compares them to Photoshop methods). Good luck :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Port Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD?
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 10:26 +0100, Roland Smith wrote: On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 09:33:36AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 10:52:08PM -0800, Mike Price wrote: Hello guys, Is there a port like Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD? I would like to move to FreeBSD as soon as possible. You could try the gimp for manipulating bitmap images. For creating vector images, try either inkscape or xaralx. They're all in ports. i have a friend that do offset printing. he have to use windoze and photoshop for only one reason - gimp doesn't support editing CMYK images Nobody has ever said that the gimp was suitable for all purposes. But it seems that most users of gimp (and photoshop) don't need it. Most of the gimp users seem to use it for editing photos or making web graphics, where RGB is fine. Adding and testing CMYK capabilities is both time-consuming and costly because you need access to pre-press equipment to do meaningfull testing, see: http://rants.scribus.net/2006/06/03/why-no-cmyk-in-gimp-is-a-good-thing-now/ However, there is a gimp plug-in for exporting CMYK images: http://cue.yellowmagic.info/softwares/separate.html Actually I've checked that out and it isn't much chop unless you specifically want to create colour sep plates. Gimp can handle CMYK palettes because they're a subset of the RGB palette. Just use the right ICC, import into scribus, and save as a pdf (or whatever). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Question on creating a video server
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 10:40 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Hi All, OK, I'm just asking for opinions here on some application software. Like most people we have a nice big 21 TV set that will be obsolete in Feb. I have been thinking about replacing this with a big screen TV set but the prices on them are still way, way way out of my budget (I just can't see spending $500 for a TV set, sorry) I can pick up really high quality, large, old-style video monitors from a computer surplus place near here for next to nothing. I'd like to setup a PC and put a HDTV tuner card in it for over-the-air HDTV broadcasts, and use that as a TV. We also have a ton of DVD's and I'd like to rip these to video files and put them on the PC. Then when anyone wants to watch a movie they just watch it off the PC. I've already started doing this under Windows and it works great - it's even better since I can remove all those movie previews that the studio wants to force you to watch. Has anyone done this with FreeBSD and open source software, and has recommendations on what hardware to get and what software works with it? PREFERABLY cheap - since ultimately we likely will get a big screen TV set once the prices fall. Try the multimedia list, but for the most part (from my experience) the modern tv tuners aren't really supported by FreeBSD (correct me if I'm wrong) natively. Some are experimental and they're the hauppage tuners, and then only a limited selection of them with limited features. Another option maybe to try and get some of the linux drivers working using linux compat_kmod- if you're really savvy that is... Its been a real pain for me too, you're only other option is to use a linux box (with greater driver support) which is what I'm using myself right now until I can get the time to help in writing drivers for the newer chipsets required for dvb. Check linuxtv.org for more info on cards and chipsets and linux compatibility. Good luck- there are some really cool options available to you once you go down this path: like piping the transmission around your network using multicasting so you can watch on just about every computer in the house, setting up a personal, customised, tivo like system, and much much more. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Port Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD?
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 12:44 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a port like Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD? I would like to move to FreeBSD as soon as possible. You could try the gimp for manipulating bitmap images. For creating vector images, try either inkscape or xaralx. They're all in ports. i have a friend that do offset printing. he have to use windoze and photoshop for only one reason - gimp doesn't support editing CMYK images If all else fails, one could try running the Windows versions of Photoshop and Illustrator under wine. That has been known to work, but not without some serious hacking. One major problem is the software needs administrative access, so you need to copy the registry from a working windows to the wine system. If you're up to it its ok, but you do have to wonder whether you really want cross contamination :), or even whether you want to support a company that stubbornly refuses to consider OSS as a system it will build it software for. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Port Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator for FreeBSD?
On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 12:16 +0100, Jos Chrispijn wrote: Uit een eerder bericht (9-11-2008 4:43): That has been known to work, but not without some serious hacking. One major problem is the software needs administrative access, so you need to copy the registry from a working windows to the wine system. Could it be possible to use Adobe's Mac versions on FreeBSD with less hacking? That's an unknown. There is no Mac emulator to speak of, and although FreeBSD and the Mac OS share a common root they're not the same. You'd need to really research where the differences lie and establish something like a mac_compat to accomplish that goal. But then do you really want to be supporting a corporation that refuses to work with OSS? They've only supplied readers to linux, and have outlawed the use of these on FreeBSD. Not really worth propping up when with less effort you could learn to use and extend the free stuff thats out there like Gimp and Scribus which would be beneficial to all. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Question on creating a video server
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 22:09 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Has anyone done this with FreeBSD and open source software, and has recommendations on what hardware to get and what software works with it? mplayer play video files fine. no idea about HDTV tunes Mplayer works great, so does Xine. Thats what I use- I use mplayer for recording using the dumpstream option and do post processing later with mencoder. The problem lies with getting the tuners themselves to work due to lack of drivers... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kerberos keytab
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 07:18 -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: Does anyone know what is the actual purpose of the Kerberos krb5.keytab file? I have a freebsd 7 configured to authenticate users via Kerberos (both apache and ssh). Although the authentication between apache and browser is still basic and between the ssh client and server is still keyboard interactive. FreeBSD validates the account in the background using Kerberos to AD. Actually from my understanding (which may very well be basic, but I have done some very extensive research) browser auth with kerberos and apache may be possible on firefox 2 and IE6. The older browsers are a dead loss, but it will fallback gracefully I've read. One thing that makes this possible is navigating to about:config in firefox and updating negotiate uri's. In IE6 you don't need to do anything, but that does increase the security risk (ergo the firefox method of negotiate). The keytab file (again, only from my understanding) contains the current keys in use mapped to the users. These change as per the kerberos ttl settings for tickets. Check the kerberos site for further, more accurate info, and run a google search for browser kerberos auth with apache. You do need the right module for apache to achieve this though- mod_auth_kerb. Some only offer a link between apache and kdc with base64 encryption. I'm pretty sure of my facts here, but I'll appreciate a correction of my comments. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kerberos keytab
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 14:17 +0100, Mel wrote: On Monday 10 November 2008 13:53:41 Da Rock wrote: Check the kerberos site for further, more accurate info, and run a google search for browser kerberos auth with apache. You do need the right module for apache to achieve this though- mod_auth_kerb. Some only offer a link between apache and kdc with base64 encryption. Non-related to the OP's problem, but base64 is a transport encoding and not encryption. It is used as 7-bit transport for 8bit (or more) data, like attachments (email) and form uploads (web). Good to know the difference, but that still seems very poor against the kerberos security available. Good to know that the newer browsers are addressing this issue... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: re changing from vista
On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 11:58 +0100, peter wrote: Dear sirs please can you help me i am totally confused i want to change from windows vista but i cannot understand which system to use i am not sure if freebsd will work with my hardware and software kind regards Peter Welcome to the free world Peter! FreeBSD is a very powerful and stable system, but that said it is also very hands on - the opposite extreme of vista which is all hands off. This means that you will have a very steep learning curve. This list is /very/ helpful, others may not be so friendly or helpful. This is great for newbies who need some real help in getting to know their system and fixing problems, but there are times when even this is not enough if you don't have enough experience with the system. My advice is this: get used to the *nix (linux, unix and other derivatives) systems and how they do things, and the best way to do this is to use linux which is like a halfway house for windows users. The software available for all systems is HUGE. And all this software will usually run on both systems. The difference is linux will take care of a lot of maintenance for you (like vista), but still allows you to get your hands dirty hacking the system to your hearts content. This is not to deter you from using FreeBSD - linux is a tough system when compared to windows, but FreeBSD is even tougher; bit like comparing a tank to fort knox. But the ease of use and experience you'll gain from using linux will be more forgiving than using FreeBSD. My suggestion would be to get used to the *nixes with Ubuntu or even PCBSD (which is a FreeBSD variant for newer users), once you have gotten used to that give yourself another steep learning curve and jump to the final level of FreeBSD straight-up :) Keep in touch with this list and you'll get all your questions answered no matter how ridiculous they may seem to the seasoned users here, and the Ubuntu list is nearly as helpful from my observation (hence my recommendation). Once you have the experience you'll definitely want FreeBSD for its security, stability, and more. You can run a desktop, a server, or just about whatever you want on it. The possibilties are endless with nearly any *nix system, but the stability can only be found with BSD. Good luck with your endeavours and welcome, again ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: re changing from vista
On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 16:39 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 08:00:23AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 11:58 +0100, peter wrote: Dear sirs please can you help me i am totally confused i want to change from windows vista but i cannot understand which system to use i am not sure if freebsd will work with my hardware and software kind regards Peter Welcome to the free world Peter! FreeBSD is a very powerful and stable system, but that said it is also very hands on - the opposite extreme of vista which is all hands off. This means that you will have a very steep learning curve. This list is /very/ helpful, others may not be so friendly or helpful. This is great for newbies who need some real help in getting to know their system and fixing problems, but there are times when even this is not enough if you don't have enough experience with the system. My advice is this: get used to the *nix (linux, unix and other derivatives) systems and how they do things, and the best way to do this is to use linux which is like a halfway house for windows users. The software available for all systems is HUGE. And all this software will usually run on both systems. The difference is linux will take care of a lot of maintenance for you (like vista), but still allows you to get your hands dirty hacking the system to your hearts content. This is not to deter you from using FreeBSD - linux is a tough system when compared to windows, but FreeBSD is even tougher; bit like comparing a tank to fort knox. But the ease of use and experience you'll gain from using linux will be more forgiving than using FreeBSD. This is just wrong.I have always found FreeBSD to be easier to install and configure the way I want it that the Red Hat or Suse I often have to use for some servers at work. Amen to that. I've converted many Ubuntu users who had shot themselves in the foot. They are now happy freeBSD users. YMMV ed You can learn them all if you want and use them all. But, don't be bullied in to believing that FreeBSD is any harder than the Lunix flavors out there. The reason for sending the OP to linux first is they will not be deterred by the driver and hardware issues. Linux IS easier in this way, and has a greater support for hardware that is used outside of a server environment. It also allows them to learn the *nix methodology and software. I think FreeBSD is great, but when you hit hardware issues - particularly new hardware - linux has the greater support for the new user. And there is no reason to hide heads in the sand, especially with new desktop hardware like multimedia (which is growing in popularity for the average user), support will come but it will take time. I have to use Fedora (of all systems) on some of my units because it is still more hands on and it supports my tv card and other multimedia hardware. Where I don't need this I use FreeBSD, and then I will eventually get around to perhaps writing drivers for the hardware I use. I appreciate your views, but I face these issues all the time and I wish all the time that I could use the stability of FreeBSD to run the multimedia systems I run. As a new user once myself at one stage I remember how frustrating it was to just get some stuff running I used regularly and how hard it was (and even then still not quite right) to get it doing what I needed. For a server and workstation its fantastic, but for some home uses it ran out of features, ergo linux backup. Plus learning linux taught me even more about the advantages and abilities of FreeBSD and how to make it work. jerry My suggestion would be to get used to the *nixes with Ubuntu or even PCBSD (which is a FreeBSD variant for newer users), once you have gotten used to that give yourself another steep learning curve and jump to the final level of FreeBSD straight-up :) Keep in touch with this list and you'll get all your questions answered no matter how ridiculous they may seem to the seasoned users here, and the Ubuntu list is nearly as helpful from my observation (hence my recommendation). Once you have the experience you'll definitely want FreeBSD for its security, stability, and more. You can run a desktop, a server, or just about whatever you want on it. The possibilties are endless with nearly any *nix system, but the stability can only be found with BSD. Good luck with your endeavours and welcome, again ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
Re: re changing from vista
On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 11:38 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: * Jeremy Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-14 14:56:26 -0800]: opinion But why are we interested in converting people? That borders on religious, which an operating system should not be. I'm not saying we don't need new users -- I'm saying: if we took half the energy used converting people and applied it to fixing bugs and improving FreeBSD, there wouldn't be a need to convert. Build it (and secure/stabilise it) and they will come. Indeed, what IS the value of more users to a volunteer project like FreeBSD? Microsoft, Apple, etc. want more users on their OS because it increases their profits. But who gets more money if ten thousand users switch to FreeBSD? FreeBSD already has a large enough user base to attract the attention of developers deciding which platforms to target with their apps. But even if it didn't, it has a large developer community of its own, and they've done a great job porting apps, as well as creating new apps themselves. New users who are also developers can contribute to this effort, so it makes sense to actively recruit them. But why should we want to increase the number of ordinary, non-developer users? If these new users also contribute to the project, by working on documentation or other non-programming tasks, then it makes sense to actively recruit them too. Perhaps there's an implicit calculation that only x percent of new users will actually contribute to the project, so if you want/need C new contributors, you should aim to recruit N = C / x new users. Some of the comments in this thread have expressed one of the problems new users can bring: an expectation and demand that things work the way they used to on their old OS. People who voice these concerns want to preserve the Unix philosophy and culture, so they don't welcome immigrants who refuse to assimilate. They don't see those immigrants as potential contributors to the project; they see them as people who want to replace it with a different project altogether. ...which perhaps explains why some people want to impose something like a Unix citizenship test. Users can also contribute by helping to refine the requirements for software. For example, my son is an animator and he and I have often discussed various graphics tools. In his opinion, the Gimp is a powerful tool which provides almost every tool or technique an artist might want, but it's unusable because its user interface doesn't reflect the way artists actually do their work. He says this isn't just that they're used to Photoshop or whatever; there's something about the nature of the task that the Gimp fails to accommodate in a natural, effortless way. He says the Gimp feels like a tool designed by software engineers rather than artists. We need users like that, who aren't developers but who are experts in their own domain. How much of FreeBSD's strength as a server derives from the fact that so many of its users have been sysadmins with a keen awareness of the day-to-day problems in that domain? (It's also been an important fact that many of them are developers too.) So when new users appear and start requesting changes to make things more like the system they came from, we shouldn't automatically classify them as unassimilable immigrants. We should try to understand what they're really looking for, and whether or how our current software supports it. It's especially important to understand why they left their old home. What was the need that inspired them to consider a change? How did their old OS fail to meet that need? Sometimes our answer to them is going to be, No, sorry, our project isn't designed to do that or That isn't one of our project's goals. Maybe you should consider Project Y instead. There's nothing wrong with that kind of answer. It's coheres with the Unix philosophy of clarity of purpose (e.g., tools that do one thing and do it well.) So, in conclusion, we DON'T need new users because growing the userbase is good in itself. Sometimes growth is cancerous, and kills the body. We DO need new users insofar as they help us meet the goals of our project. (And sometimes new users suggest new goals for us to pursue.) -- Charlie Thats a very good point, and in my own case I'm not here to leach off the systems here. I make points of driver issues, but I so far have lacked the abilities to change this; ergo I turn to the lists... That won't be forever, my skills as a developer have grown and now its simply a matter of time to work on these projects. I have a skill such as mentioned here, in the manner of my users have a great deal of experience in their fields (including myself) and can make valid suggestions as to how to make things better. Better yet I'm trying enact some of those suggestions and test them locally with the users. I'm also trying to train my users to use
Re: re changing from vista
On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 11:54 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: * Da Rock [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-11-16 15:21:27 +1000]: The reason for sending the OP to linux first is they will not be deterred by the driver and hardware issues. Linux IS easier in this way, and has a greater support for hardware that is used outside of a server environment. It also allows them to learn the *nix methodology and software. To the extent that Linux succeeds in making things just work, it will prevent or at least delay the user's learning the Unix way. Most of us got our Unix knowledge the old-fashioned way: we earned it. We stumbled over one problem or another and fought our way through to a solution. When things just work, only the technically curious will explore beneath the hood to see exactly how they work. Maybe we shouldn't make it a goal that every user should have that kind of deep-water knowledge? Should it really be a goal that every user become familiar with the shell and commandline tools? Why not let them live happily ever after in a point-and-click world? Maybe, but they will still hit some issues, and they will still find things very different than what they're used to in windows- this in itself is deep enough water for most that are very M$-centric. Why make it harder? Let them get used to the environment, see what actually happens when things are plugged in and what not, then eventually they will be forced to go to the cli to do exactly what they want. Once they get passed the initial chill of the water then they can ease into the *nix methods on the cli, and then they will be more comfortable to use Unix outright, solve the issues with the hardware/software/uses they wish to put it to. Maybe we differ in opinion just a little this way... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: re changing from vista
On Sun, 2008-11-16 at 22:53 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Still it goes, the OP is trying to get away from MS-Win, not find some non-MS clone in EVERY such post i see exactly opposite. they want windoze clones! they don't ask about how to learn unix, what to read, they didn't read even basic manuals, or if so - just glanced. actually - there is a market niche for true non-microsoft windoze clone! it's strange noone try to fill it. it's millions of $ to earn! Try ReactOS- it's exactly that. I think its a version of Wine on steroids... Also I think thats what Xandros and some of it's partners are doing. something working like windoze, running windoze .exe/.dll binaries and windows compatible installer but for example not requiring gig of RAM, powerful CPU running 10 times faster (not difficult to achieve) etc... i remember many years ago installing linux first time (linux was quite good that time). i spent 2 months on it reading everything needed and learning BEFORE asking questions on mailing lists! because i knew nothing about unix at first. I knew only DOS and windoze 95 before, DOS isn't an OS at all, but that is adventage too. but i needed something that made full use of my 25Mhz 486. Windoze definitely wasn't good in it. it just wasted hardware resources giving nothing. that's why i tried to seek something different. and found linux.. after some time NetBSD, then FreeBSD. today - most of these wannabe-FreeBSD-users just don't want to pay for windoze. nothing else! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: re changing from vista
On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 10:23 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Try ReactOS- it's exactly that. I think its a version of Wine on steroids... does it really work - i mean all (or most at least) programs work. can user simply put say - M$ Office CD/DVD and click setup? if yes - they NEED MORE ADVERTISEMENT. i will check it today on second disk. if it's OK i will start recommending it all people i know that use windoze. thanks for info. Its currently a VM image so just use that - saves scratching a hard drive... Go to the vmware site and its located in the appliances section. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: re changing from vista
On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 10:40 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: ReactOS is somewhat of a joke at this point. I've personally tried it, and I cannot see how it can be taken seriously until its cleaned up and made much more user-friendly. There's also been some developer drama in recent days, which literally halted the project for months on end, and I don't know what became of that. quite bad, as their donation page. if they want to do something real then more people (but less than 10) are needed and finally implement all functionality. they could sell it, instead of begging for donations If you start selling software like that, you end up just like another M $. Me personally I don't like the software and system introduced by M$, so thats why I've moved to more secure systems like FOSS. I'd rather spend my time working with a community like this fixing issues than wasting time solving issues with win32 setups which simply don't hold water. But does it work (e.x. does it function)? Yes, it does. -- | Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_auth_ldap
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 06:32 +0100, Peter Boosten wrote: Hi all, Anyone try to compile this one? It stops with a www/mod_auth_ldap (missing header) The header it cannot find is: mod_auth_ldap.c:61:24: error: apr_compat.h: No such file or directory And it's right: the file indeed is not on my system, and it didn't come with apr-gdbm-db44-1.3.3.1.3.4, nor with apache-2.2.9_5. Does anyone have some clues about the solution? Try the APR utilities port. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] printing question
On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 10:49 -0600, Andrew Gould wrote: Time to buy a new printer. I don't print much from FreeBSD; but the need occasionally arises. Most of my printing is done while using Mac OS X. The Epson Artisan 800 is looking awfully nice; but it's not in the Linux printing database yet (http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi). Question: Since Mac OS X uses CUPS, if I share the printer on the Mac, will I need to worry about FreeBSD compatibility of the printer? I only need printing functions (not scan, etc) for the FreeBSD computer. My understanding of this may be flawed, but from what I read years ago you should be able to use a pass thru filter (driver) and let the Mac do the hard work. It may be a slower way to print though, but based on your outline of the quantity you do print it should suffice. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_auth_ldap
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 10:43 +0100, Peter Boosten wrote: Da Rock wrote: On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 06:32 +0100, Peter Boosten wrote: Hi all, Anyone try to compile this one? It stops with a www/mod_auth_ldap (missing header) The header it cannot find is: mod_auth_ldap.c:61:24: error: apr_compat.h: No such file or directory And it's right: the file indeed is not on my system, and it didn't come with apr-gdbm-db44-1.3.3.1.3.4, nor with apache-2.2.9_5. Does anyone have some clues about the solution? Try the APR utilities port. He Da Rock, Thanks for your answer. However, which port would that be? Apologies, its actually the apr libraries, and is devel/apr. However, based on the other replies here it doesn't look like its the problem... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
APIC error
This is occurring on a linux system, but from my investigations it wouldn't be limited to just this OS. Therefore, I come seeking wisdom from some real gurus... only kidding. But the collective experience here in sysadmin is greater than the experience of desktop users found on linux lists. I checked my dmesg today on a system which I know is failing, and found a message regarding an apic error on cpu1 00(40). The system is a dual core pentium. I know the system is failing because I'm getting usb enumeration errors (something that has come up twice before on dying systems, and has disappeared as soon as I bought a new one), plus acpi errors in the form of being unable to attach device data. I understand this software unable to cope with interrupts at the cpu, and can mean hardware failure or bad software. But given my hardware issues I'm fairly certain its the former. My biggest question is where? How does it come up with something like that? Can anyone shed some light on the details of this? I'll be greatful for whatever I can get- information is power after all. For reference, this is an ASUS notebook which is only a few months old. I rang the warranty support and started telling them what was going wrong with it, but I was interrupted by the guy telling me that unless window$ was on it they weren't even going to touch it. Needless to say I told him to shove that philosophy where the sun don't shine, but I thought this was strange coming from a company which has pioneered the use of linux in the user range through the eeepc range... Fair enough if they want window$ but they can put it on and not waste my time further AND leave me without a machine to work with. What I can't work out is how they are going to be able to diagnose a problem like this easier with an OS which is a black box (almost). And their words were that they couldn't test the device properly without window$! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APIC error
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 14:32 +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: Da Rock wrote: I know the system is failing because I'm getting usb enumeration errors (something that has come up twice before on dying systems, and has disappeared as soon as I bought a new one), plus acpi errors in the form of being unable to attach device data. I understand this software unable to cope with interrupts at the cpu, and can mean hardware failure or bad software. But given my hardware issues I'm fairly certain its the former. My biggest question is where? How does it come up with something like that? Can anyone shed some light on the details of this? I'll be greatful for whatever I can get- information is power after all. This is too little information for general troubleshooting, except if someone has encountered this exact problem before. From your description, especially since you're suggesting a hardware failure, it could be anything from BIOS or BIOS CMOS error (or battery) to real hardware problems in the conductors to the buses. Would this be in the cpu itself or in the mainboard (best guess)? If its the cpu it could be from overheating (could the cpu alone cause all these errors?), but mainboard would mean an inherent communication problem wouldn't it? This really is a hardware issue any way you look at it I know, but a better understanding of what is going on might clarify what we're up against here... cheers guys :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APIC error
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 15:23 +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: Da Rock wrote: Would this be in the cpu itself or in the mainboard (best guess)? If its the cpu it could be from overheating (could the cpu alone cause all these errors?), but mainboard would mean an inherent communication problem wouldn't it? If you can look up the CPU temperature in your BIOS setup, you can easily see if the CPU is overheating - reboot and look it up immediately after the problems start. I'm not sure I expressed myself too clearly; I meant cpu failure due to it running too hot for extended periods of time, not causing immediate problems while this occurring but making the problem apparent later when the now damaged component on the chip is used. Thinking about it, though, it would seem more likely that one of the bridges (north bridge?)(which would mean their cooling mechs aren't doing very well in the laptop chassis) would be in its death throws because the cpu is less involved when data is transferred between components like disks, usb, and video. The cpu is only dragged into the action to start the process and monitor that it has been completed, or to handle something the component can't handle like decoding or encoding. Does that make sense or am I talking gibberish? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which FreeBSD is best for my PC?
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 14:22 +, RW wrote: On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:54:38 -0800 Harry Veltman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which version and GUI will work best on the internet with my AT Pentium II 350MHz x86-based PC? Some web sites require Flash Player 8 or higher, If flash is important to you then I'd suggest you run windows firefox under wine. Native Adobe Flash support is apparently working again in 7.1, but it's only just been restored as being broken for years. And by all accounts the linux flash-plugin isn't perfect even in Linux. and some require 128-bit encryption I think, but doesn't 40-bit encryption process data 3 times faster? How many bit encryption is the various versions of FreeBSD? Thanks. All the supported versions of FreeBSD should have a wide range of ciphers available on browsers. IMO it's not really worth using ciphers below 128 bits. 128 bit is probably safe from the NSA, 40 bits could easily be broken on a pc. Are you sure about the NSA part? :P ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which FreeBSD is best for my PC?
On Mon, 2008-12-01 at 15:42 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: If flash is important to you then I'd suggest you run windows firefox under wine. Native Adobe Flash support is apparently working again in isn't better to run windows ? That'd be debatable, wouldn't it? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: UFS partitioning
On Tue, 2008-12-02 at 11:39 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:17:40AM +0100, Polytropon wrote: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:56:44 +0100 (CET), Pieter Donche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If FreeBSD is to put on the system as only operating system (Fdisk: A = Use Entire disk), then will the BSD-partitions will show up as ad0a (/), ad0b (swap), ad0d (/var) etc... correct or not (then what)? You're mixing terminology here. :-) The use entire disk will create a slice for FreeBSD covering the complete disk. A slice is what MICROS~1 calls primary partition. Now the conclusion: Let's say you create a slice on ad0, it will be ad0s1. Now you can create partitions inside this slice as you mentioned it, e. g. ad0s1a = /, ad0s1b = swap, ad0s1d = /tmp, ad0s1e = /var, ad0s1f = /usr and ad0s1g = /home. True. Too bad MS had to use the same terminology for slices as FreeBSD uses for subdivisions of slices. But, it won't be undone now, so the confusion will continue. But if you're refering to ad0a, ad0b, ad0d etc. you're stating that there's no slice, implying that (if I see this correctly) it isn't possible to boot from that disk. It is correct that this would imply no slice being created. But it is not correct that it could not be bootable. You can use bsdlabel to write the boot sector to ad0 instead of ad0s1 and it would be bootable - but would be what someone has enjoyed describing as a 'dangerously dedicated' disk. FreeBSD can deal with it, but other systems cannot. I don't know if you can do this from sysinstall though. I have never tried. But, it can be done by running bsdlabel by hand. Of couse, if you would intend to use a (physical) second disk for only the home partition, you could omit the slice and the partition and simply newfs ad1 - but that wasn't your question. Probably the 'dangerously dedicated' disk is more often used this way as an additional (second) drive that is not made bootable. In that case, it is unlikely that one would mount any of the partitions on '/' making it the root filesystem. That may be a problem. But, otherwise this looks probable or more likely it would have some swap to add to the first disk and all the rest in either the a or d partitions mounted as something like '/work' or /scratch'. ad0 |---| the whole disk ad0s1 \--/ one slice ad0s1X \--/\---/\-/\-/\---/\/ partitions a b d e f g / swap /tmp /var/usr /home mount point Excuse my nose in here- I just have a couple of questions. 1) It IS possible to boot from a dedicated disk? 2) Does using dedicated mode increase the space available to use? Partitioning normally takes up space so a HDD loses about 10% of usable space doesn't it, so the space used by partitioning is can now be used as filespace. These questions are all theoretical: I've only read in passing about dedicated mode, but the use of this would be highly specialised by extension. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: UFS partitioning
On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 20:55 -0500, Robert Huff wrote: Da Rock writes: Excuse my nose in here- I just have a couple of questions. 1) It IS possible to boot from a dedicated disk? Yes. Can't remember the last time I used anything else. So you've never booted from a disk that has been partitioned as a file system? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FreeBSD 7.0 problems
I have just installed FreeBSD 7.0 on a laptop I just cleaned up. It used to run Fedora linux (I have a tv card which used to work on it, but now I can't get the drivers to work again), and it got very cluttered and started getting issues. The hardware is fine though- it just returned from servicing under warranty and nearly every component was replaced. Ergo I can't fault the hardware in any way. I tried FreeBSD 7.0 before, but it wasn't working properly for me and I didn't have the time then to get all the reports to make a PR. Now, I decided to sort this out- finally! The issues I'm having are similar to before, but not quite the same (keeping in mind that I didn't take much time with it before). They are: The wifi driver complains of timeout errors. (Intel iwi 2200bg - last time I tried had a ralink wifi) Xorg has DRI errors - fills /var and tries to kill the whole system (I'm probably exaggerating, but it felt like it at least) dhclient loses the IP constantly. So: How do I present these issues for review? What information is needed? Anything I've missed? This is the first time I've had to do this (which I think is pretty good- goes to show how well the OS is built), so I'm a little green in this regard. Cheers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: UFS partitioning
On Thu, 2008-12-04 at 10:49 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 12:57:45PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 20:55 -0500, Robert Huff wrote: Da Rock writes: Excuse my nose in here- I just have a couple of questions. 1) It IS possible to boot from a dedicated disk? Yes. Can't remember the last time I used anything else. So you've never booted from a disk that has been partitioned as a file system? You are getting your terms scrambled here. Partitioning has nothing directly to do with creating a file system. You can build a filesystem (with newfs) on just about any piece of disk whether it is the whole disk, a slice of the disk or a partition of a slice. Making one of those divisions bootable is also pretty much an independant operation too, though as far as I know, only whole disks and slices can be made bootable but not partitions - the fact that the partition contains the system files is not what makes it bootable. Being bootable is dependant on the boot sector which gets the control from either the BIOS or an MBR and then finds the system partition (/), mounts it (Read Only) and finds system files and starts those things running. Yes, I would say I'm getting my terms mixed up- fortunately the actual reality is clear in my head (hard as that is to believe..). I have only one more question then: Why would you use dangerously dedicated mode at all? I can only see where it might be useful for files, no advantage to being a boot sector. It was some time ago that I read up on all this, but what I remembered was that BSD could use a dedicated disk- but only BSD could read and write from it and this is dangerous. Maybe what I was reading was regarding bootable and that was considered dangerous... At any rate I'm very clear now. Thanks for all the information guys- cheers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 08:29 -0500, Jerry wrote: snip IMHO, before FreeBSD can make a significant market share improvement, it has to improve its hardware support. NVidia, for one, has expressed a desire to support FreeBSD; however, it needs the FreeBSD organization to improve its basic product, especially in the 64-bit systems, which are the future of computing. Ok. So what needs improvement and where to start? Not being critical, I'm interested in this. Personally though, I think the business model here is a failure and seriously flawed. And yes, I did study business at Monash (and butted heads constantly; IF you don't look out for the health and well being of a community, environment, employees, whatever- the extreme social responsibility- then the clients and potential clients die, ergo no customers therefore no money to be made. Thats looking after your bottomline: Duh!) and saw this continually. Marketing the same; appealing to all markets is extremely lucrative, and with the technology literally at our fingertips can be very easy to do. So why not just pull the finger out and do it instead of saying its too hard, too much trouble, etc. Old people at the wheel stuck on old ways and refusing to budge (no offense intended to those on the list- I have a lot of respect for those in technology; strangely the inverse is true- they actually know what they're doing and do it properly the first time) in management. Sorry for the rant, but that's just my 2c. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 12:14 -0800, prad wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:35:17 +0100 Uwe Laverenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is most freebsd users? i would think most are interested in running servers or routers or possible scientific applications or engaged in os study and appreciate its simplicity and consistency. i don't think it can compete with linux in terms of some of the bells and whistles that the desktop offers, but imho, a lot of those bells ring out of tune and the whistles result in sore lips. The possibility here is the bells and whistles strangely enough DO work in tune and without sore lips... FreeBSD could be THAT good. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 20:04 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: than not you discourage beginners from getting interested in this i don't discourage beginners that want to learn. Most of them don't. You remind me of a tech I once worked with who thought all customers were stupid. Maybe they were... The boss sent him to customer relations training sessions. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:25 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:02:28PM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:32:59 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. I think he's trying to say that open source drivers would be preferable, and to develop them we'd need the hardware specs so we'd have a target toward which to develop drivers. Of course, preferable is my choice of term -- he seems to be more of the opinion that anything that isn't strictly open source should just be shunned, out of hand. While it would be nice if that was a practical option, it isn't really, at this point. Perhaps he'd be more at home in the Fedora community which are adamant about that too... :P NVidia produces both the hardware and drivers for same. It requested additions/changes to the basic FBSD system to enable their product to be fully functional. Changes that it seems other manufacturers would also need. At least four things need to be clarified: 1. Would the requested changes have a negative effect on system design in some way? 2. Would working on making those changes divert important resources from other, perhaps more important, projects? 3. Are the changes the same as what other hardware vendors would need before they could fully support FreeBSD, or are they different -- possibly even contradictory? If the latter, we need to consider whether such contradictions can be worked around without degrading the stability and performance characteristics of the system, and see what impact such work-arounds would have on the answer to question 2. 4. Is there any way we can talk them into helping us work on fully functional open source drivers, as AMD (which bought ATI) has promised to do for the Linux community? I don't know the answers to any of those four questions -- in part because discussion never gets past the No! You'll destroy FreeBSD if you try to support that hardware! stage of discussion. Now, if FBSD has no intention of working with other hardware and/or software manufacturers/authors, maybe it should just post a big KEEP OUT sign on its web page. I seriously doubt that NVidia, or any other manufacturer is about to divulge trade secrets or patented information. What point would there be in that anyway? It is certainly not necessary. What developer in his/her right mind would be interested in making their product usable on a FBSD system if they knew that they would have to divulge all of their trade secrets, etc. Actually, patents are publicly documented by definition -- we're just not *allowed* to use it, once it has been patented, without permission. The sort of thing they don't want to divulge is trade secrets, which you meantioned -- not patents, which you also mentioned. For some reason, though, some hardware vendors seem inclined to use patents as an excuse for keeping secrets, which never made much sense to me. IANAL, though I read about the law from time to time. Ok, so moving forward on this point: How exactly does this help in developing drivers for FreeBSD? Patents are ideas- right? So wouldn't this mean that it would still require guessing and estimation of what should happen and how to do it? You also mention that they're publicly accessible- how? Whats the portal and how would you search for required device? I ask this not just in reference to NVidia (which has dominated the discussion) but to other devices as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 13:05 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 10:46:55AM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. exactly what i wrote. the problem is that people like You (and millions others) are willing to buy product without any documentation. You may find this surprising, but sometimes circumstances lead people to make purchases of total package products rather than building something there are products for them. In other words, your answer seems to be: We don't want users who like FreeBSD, but want to use it on a laptop. FreeBSD should never be used on a laptop. I'd say I can safely ignore you, knowing that's your attitude, if it weren't for the fact that a lot of other people won't know that down the line, and you may permanently damage the FreeBSD project by chasing off potential contributors. Is there any way I can get you to stop being such a contentious trojan horse of an enemy to the FreeBSD project? If one were spiritually minded one might see another reason behind this. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB Flash Drives
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 01:59 -0700, fixer wrote: FreeBSD localhost 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Fri Jan 12 11:05:30 UTC 2007 r...@dessler.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP i386 localhost# I just discovered flash drives. They are very easy to use on Windows. I don't know if FreeBSD supports these drives. But if FreeBSD does, I need instructions on how-to-use. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Check removable disks in the handbook. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 09:48 +0200, Valentin Bud wrote: Hello list, I don't know if the Subject says what i really want to achieve but i do hope that i will make myself understood. I work for a school and i want to install in 2 labs on very low performance computers (1 Ghz CPU, 126 Mb RAM) some linux distro (zen walk). I *need* to install linux because there are some programs that need to run on those stations and guess what, they only work on linux. There are different students that use those computers and they change frequently. So i thought to make a server, using FreeBSD (of course), that has a database of users so the linux machines don't have local users but they query the DB to get login credentials and such. I don't really know what to look for. So any suggestion and hints to how can i achieve this are welcomed. Perhaps what you are looking for is NIS, or better still LDAP? For greater security try kerberos. NIS should be documented in the handbook, lookup OpenLDAP in ports and follow the links or google Good luck! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
If we want FreeBSD to grow to where vendors pick up obscure and not-so-obscure devices and support it more than it is now, we need publicity. If we need publicity, we need marketing types. If we need marketing types, we need to pay them, and we need to put up with them, and even be nice to them. I'm not so sure I want to pay that price. I don't know that it would NEED marketers, but even so that would be making a deal with the devil- so I agree entirely with that point. However, I do think the problem could be better faced technically than from a business standpoint anyway- style would be a major point here. As it stands right now, it's a meritocracy -- those with the skills share their work with others with the skills. It is bound together by the respect we have for each other, and there's not much name-calling going on. The product is technically sound, has better hardware support than other *ixes (I run OpenBSD on servers -- but not on the laptop beause of the lack of laptop support), and gets the job done well. The documentation is simply phenomenal. I'm good with that. I'm also more than pleased that there are barriers to entry based upon a basic unix knowledge level -- I've had one too many encounters with the unwashed to want to go that direction. Linux developers spend more time catering to that crowd, and IMO, it suffers for it as much as it benefits from it. Hence why I tend to send really green unix newbies to linux school than grind their teeth on FreeBSD straight up. Let em get their skills and experience in how *nix in general works on something a little easier (for MIB lovers: noisy cricket), then move up to the big guns. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 09:32 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 08:46:49PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 08:29 -0500, Jerry wrote: snip IMHO, before FreeBSD can make a significant market share improvement, it has to improve its hardware support. NVidia, for one, has expressed a desire to support FreeBSD; however, it needs the FreeBSD organization to improve its basic product, especially in the 64-bit systems, which are the future of computing. Ok. So what needs improvement and where to start? Not being critical, I'm interested in this. Personally though, I think the business model here is a failure and seriously flawed. And yes, I did study business at Monash (and butted heads constantly; IF you don't look out for the health and well being of a community, environment, employees, whatever- the extreme social responsibility- then the clients and potential clients die, ergo no customers therefore no money to be made. Thats looking after your bottomline: Duh!) and saw this continually. Marketing the same; The thing people seem to forget is that FreeBSD doesn't have a business model - or that is its business model. It is simply sharing technology without much concern about propagation or return. It accepts contributions of various kinds, mostly in kind. jerry And that is what makes it so good- because of this business model (or lack thereof) the people involved are doing what they love (at least I would hope so), so like with cooking the secret ingredient to a good product is always love (I hope this doesn't sound too sappy! But it is true, more care is always taken when people actually care about what they do). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 10:08 +0100, Michel Talon wrote: Lowell Gilbert wrote: NIS, which stands for Network Information Services, was developed by Sun Microsystems to centralize administration of UNIX (originally SunOS) systems. It has now essentially become an industry standard; all major UNIX like systems (Solaris, HP-UX, AIX(R), Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, etc) support NIS. I work i am in a mostly Linux shop managed by NIS. However my machines are under FreeBSD and i have no problem getting the NIS info. The only gotcha is that, under Linux you have 2 files for passwds /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow, while under FreeBSD you have just one /etc/master.passwd. So you need to run NIS in compatibility mode on the Linux server, so that passwd and shadow are concatenated. Securitywise it is the same since in any case the shadow information flows on the wire, ready to be captured by a scannner. The main problem with NIS, in my opinion, is that, when the NIS server(s) are down (it always occur once or twice a year here), all the clients are completely frozen immediately, so if you want high availability, better copy the passwd files on each client directly and not use a network server like that. Our previous sysadm had written a couple of replication scripts which worked very well this way. The present one reverted to NIS with this small inconvenient. Replication requires that you only modify passwd files on the server, like with NIS, and then, as soon as a modification is detected, files are propagated on all clients. This is extremely easy to achieve, and *much* more efficient, networkwise than using a thing like NIS or LDAP, where each client is constantly polling the server to get information about home directories, tilde expansions,etc. Wouldn't kerberos be a better alternative? One server (maybe a replicated backup), and all services authenticate with that. Saves shadow on the wire... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Plan9
Hope this deosn't upset the purists... I literally stumbled on a reference to plan9 in the freebsd ports- completely by accident, mind- and so I ran a search for what it was on google. I found an article on wikipedia and from there a link to download the latest iso. Unfortunately the .iso.gz is empty. There is a note saying that downloads are limited, but there is no suggestion of this in the empty file recieved. Given the wide range of experience and backgrounds, plus the references in ports, I figured someone here might possibly know where to get a copy of the iso, or something about it. It looks very interesting and I'd like to look at it, but I'm not sure whether it is still active... Cheers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 18:46 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 04:47:23PM -0800, prad wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:11:25 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: His manner of expressing his feelings seems to be to try to crush others' beneath his heel. Try examining the definition of the word fair before you use it in the future. ok, chad, here's what you find on dictionary.com that are relevant: 1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge. 2. legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight. My point exactly -- you rush to his defense, making statements that seem intended to skewer me for things he has done. I don't consider that the epitome of fairness. ok no one is really free from bias when it comes to these things. as shaw (i think) once wrote an unbiased opinion isn't worth a damn. i do not think you have provided specific evidence that he has been dishonesty or unjust ... much less so that he has even been incorrect. Let's take, as an example, the link I provided in response to a comment of his that prompted a couple people to defend him. I've given him that URL three or four times in the last year, in direct response to some statement he has made suggesting that FreeBSD desktops simply cannot compare with MS Windows desktops in terms of flashiness, bells and whistles, et cetera. Each time, I have very clearly stated my disagreement with his estimation of FreeBSD as being thoroughly beaten by MS Windows in that area, with that URL provided as evidence to back my claim. Each time, he has completely ignored what I said and the URL I provided. He keeps coming back to make exactly the same sort of claims he has before, utterly failing to addresses arguments against his hand-waving statements without any logical or evidenciary support. Nobody else has bothered to dispute what I've said, either. In absence of, at *minimum*, some half-assed attempt to make a case against what I've provided, I will continue to regard his repetition of disputed, unsupported statements to be dishonest or at least wildly inaccurate. That's generally how *reasonable* people treat hand-waving arguments like his, with no logical or evidenciary support -- nor even personal, anecdotal support -- when they are disputed by a counterargument *with support*. Would you prefer I just accept his statements, which fly in the face of my own experience, even after he fails to answer supported disputations of their content, just because it's him and you say he has to be right about everything? Even if his statement itself isn't dishonest, his unwillingness to either back away from it or offer a counterargument when it is effectively disputed is dishonest. He pretends there is no other side to the matter, no other valid opinion, yet resolutely refuses to acknowledge such other side arguments when they arise. I use an example of my own statements only because I'm most familiar with my own statements -- not because others do not exist. and as far as 'sticking to the rules', he hasn't abused anyone from any of the posts i recall reading, so within the terms of conduct of an email list, i don't find your picturesque expression 'crush others beneath his heel' legitimate. I guess you haven't been reading very closely. If he just said If this doesn't suit your needs, try something else, I wouldn't have a problem. Telling people patent falsehoods about how FreeBSD simply can't do what other OSes can, even in cases where FreeBSD can do them *better* than those other OSes, in an attempt to drive away anyone that might be looking at FreeBSD as a possible migration path, is rather suboptimal in my opinion, however. it would be suboptimal, if it were true. however, i really can't recall anything of the sort, chad - ever. and certainly not in this thread. i also don't understand why you think he'd be even motivated to do this. of what possible interest could it be for him to drive others away from freebsd? Oh, poppycock. Go back and read the very post to which I responded when I called him a troll. Notice how he says things that seem carefully calculated to make people think Oh, this FreeBSD thing obviously sucks as a desktop OS. Take off the blinders. I have no idea why he'd be motivated to do that. I'm not him. All I know is what I've seen him do increasingly often over the last year. I can actually confirm this observation over the past year and beyond. It has begun innocently enough in the past couple of years and has grown in intensity since. I don't particularly want to be drawn into this debate, but this does seem to be rather one sided argument. My philosophy is to simply ignore most comments, counter some of them, and draw the OP to more balanced views. I doubt that any arguments
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 02:44 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: obstinate refusal to open specs is the short-sightedness and general ignorance of daycoders and pointy-haired bosses -- all of whom think Java is the best programming language around because that's what most programmers use and have some vague, unsupported (but stubborn) notion that secrets are good for business. At least it *seems* they all think so. I'm sorry, but the only image I could conjure up for a pointy-haired boss was Bart Simpson in a suit (or Lisa as President) :D Do you have another image in mind? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 10:37 -0800, prad wrote: On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:51:22 +1000 Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au wrote: The possibility here is the bells and whistles strangely enough DO work in tune and without sore lips... FreeBSD could be THAT good. i'm not so sure that is really THAT good. bells and whistles if not carefully thought out and implemented can add to instability. possibly more important, they can pervert the original good idea. i think the newer kde's is a case in point (from my personal experience, albeit). version 3 was good (despite the occasional crash). version 4 seemed to try to do all sorts of stuff and outdo windoze at being windoze. i'm using dwm :D i think this issue was dealt with rather well in the openbsd faq: - 1.10 - Can I use OpenBSD as a desktop system? This question is often asked in exactly this manner -- with no explanation of what the asker means by desktop. The only person who can answer that question is you, as it depends on what your needs and expectations are. While OpenBSD has a great reputation as a server operating system, it can be and is used on the desktop. Many desktop applications are available through packages and ports. As with all operating system decisions, the question is: can it do the job you desire in the way you wish? You must answer this question for yourself. http://openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Desktop - while i agree with you as far as having suitable driver accessibility, i don't see why one system needs to try to be all things to all people. All this is a fair comment. In particular the reply to bells and whistles. My main concern with KDE4 (now that I've seen it) is that while the bells and whistles are there, they don't seem complete there are still at least the little aesthetics to fix- not to mention the crashes, inoperability, etc. While it outdoes window$ on functional stability etc, I think they may have jumped the gun on this one. A more polished and complete product later would have far more success- take time for all the little things: if its there it SHOULD work properly. As for who and why should use it: thats for the intellects to argue. My only argument is if the jobs worth doing do it properly the first time. I think what many get up in arms about is what the system should be capable of doing. And yes there are many more comments on the multimedia list- which should be saying something to people: there is no other system out there that is sufficient for their needs, so they come to the only operating system that has the strength, speed, and stability to offer a possibility of what they want (I'm one of them). Linux isn't up to scratch although driver support is better, but it doesn't hold up under the kind of stresses being placed on it for this level of work. There are many uses that FreeBSD is up to the challenge with operationally but doesn't have the driver support. Even if a link is created between linux and BSD driver wise (temporarily until native support) the stability of FreeBSD can counter more of the inconsistencies in the driver software. On top of that, there are more hardware vendors making more new products FOR SERVERS that there is no driver support for. Gone are the days when one vendor sells the chipset to many different hardware implementations; now there are many chipsets for the same hardware types, so more drivers need to be written for the new hardware coming out on a continual basis. Plus what is considered to be a server has changed over the years compared to what some on this list may be used to. Consider video streaming (where does the stream originate from?), sound streaming, 3D rendering, physics computation, X services; in this climate of cloud computing there is going to be a lot more coming. Food for thought anyway. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 22:46 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I mean seriously, has this helped anything at all? no. all i want is to stop all stupid topics about: - KDE/Gnome/other crap (or great things for somebody) BECAUSE IT'S NOT PART OF FREEBSD. FreeBSD has nothing to this, except KDE/Gnome/whatever can be run on it - support of flash in Opera/Firefox/Whatever again BECAUSE WWW BROWSER ARE NOT PART OF FREEBSD. - support of new/hot (literally)/super/extra graphics cards from NVidia. BECAUSE Xorg IS NOT PART OF FREEBSD. While IMHO full graphics support (graphics support, not GUI) should be part of kernel as driver, it isn't. As NVidia card Xorg module does need some kernel wrapper (no idea why) - then there is nothing wrong for interested people to write it as ADD ON/PORT. - asking about bloat level, visual apperance comparision etc. between FreeBSD with KDE and Windoze. because KDE ARE NOT PART OF FREEBSD, and FreeBSD on it's own doesn't have (fortunately) any desktop environment so it can't be compared. if someone like to compare KDE with windoze - OK but NOT THIS GROUP! SO - please just stop ALL NTG topics here. this group really lacks moderator. not someone that will remove posts he considers lame but all that is off topic. Off topic=not about FreeBSD OS. Things not run on FreeBSD could (and should) be considered off topic, but if the software is run on FreeBSD (which is an OS, might I remind, not an app) then it does concern FreeBSD- especially if it works elsewhere (in the exact same method- ie kde on linux and freebsd, not necessarily flash). LDAP and NSS is not actually a part of FreeBSD too, neither is postfix, apache, xfce, etc. And yet you have nothing against those. Beware what you advocate... If you take this stance on THIS LIST then you will scare future community members away, and this list will have nothing to talk about (says something about how good FreeBSD itself is). If someone takes a step and asks about FreeBSD from a window$ perspective, M$ is NOT an alternative- obviously they've woken out their dream state to find a nightmare, let them sharpen their claws in linux ok? Then they can come better equiped and have a better understanding of how *nix works- don't shooo them back to the nightmare world of Gates. Commend users for stepping out of a hand fed state- don't snarl at them and tell them they're too stupid. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: iwi config help
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 11:29 +, AN wrote: I'm trying to configure a wireless adapter on an IBM Thinkpad R51, and need some help. I followed the iwi man page, but the card is not recognized. I have the following in /boot/loader.conf: cat /boot/loader.conf if_iwi_load=YES wlan_load=YES firmware_load=YES loader_logo=beastie snd_ich_load=YES kldstat shows: Id Refs AddressSize Name 1 18 0xc040 7c7990 kernel 21 0xc0bc8000 e6e4 if_iwi.ko 32 0xc0bd7000 2f9c firmware.ko 41 0xc0bda000 6994 snd_ich.ko 52 0xc0be1000 239e8sound.ko 61 0xc0c05000 5c838acpi.ko 71 0xc5547000 19000linux.ko 81 0xc5706000 1e000radeon.ko 91 0xc5724000 e000 drm.ko pkg_info | grep iwi iwi-firmware-kmod-3.0_3 Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 Firmware Kernel Module dmesg |grep iwi Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/if_iwi.ko at 0xc0c63188. dmesg |grep firmware Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/firmware.ko at 0xc0c63234. pciconf -lv a...@pci0:0:0:class=0x06 card=0x05291014 chip=0x33408086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82855PM Processor to I/O Controller' class = bridge subclass = HOST-PCI pc...@pci0:1:0: class=0x060400 card=0x chip=0x33418086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82855PM Processor to AGP Controller' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI uh...@pci0:29:0: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c28086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB uh...@pci0:29:1: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c48086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB uh...@pci0:29:2: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c78086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB eh...@pci0:29:7: class=0x0c0320 card=0x052e1014 chip=0x24cd8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB 2.0 EHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB pc...@pci0:30:0: class=0x060400 card=0x chip=0x24488086 rev=0x81 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801BAM/CAM/DBM (ICH2-M/3-M/4-M) Hub Interface to PCI Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI is...@pci0:31:0: class=0x060100 card=0x chip=0x24cc8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DBM (ICH4-M) LPC Interface Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-ISA atap...@pci0:31:1:class=0x01018a card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24ca8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DBM (ICH4-M) UltraATA/100 EIDE Controller' class = mass storage subclass = ATA no...@pci0:31:3: class=0x0c0500 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c38086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) SMBus Controller' class = serial bus subclass = SMBus p...@pci0:31:5: class=0x040100 card=0x05541014 chip=0x24c58086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller' class = multimedia subclass = audio no...@pci0:31:6: class=0x070300 card=0x05591014 chip=0x24c68086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Modem Controller' class = simple comms subclass = generic modem d...@pci1:0:0:class=0x03 card=0x05311014 chip=0x4c661002 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc' device = 'ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9000 (Microsoft Corporation - Radeon Mobility M9' class = display subclass = VGA c...@pci2:0:0:class=0x060700 card=0x05521014 chip=0xac46104c rev=0x01 hdr=0x02 vendor = 'Texas Instruments (TI)' device = 'PCI4520 PC Card CardBus Controller' class = bridge subclass = PCI-CardBus fwoh...@pci2:0:2: class=0x0c0010 card=0x05531014 chip=0x802a104c rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Texas Instruments (TI)' class = serial bus subclass = FireWire e...@pci2:1:0:class=0x02 card=0x05491014 chip=0x101e8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 19:15 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: cropping up and saying the equivalent of If we work on that stuff, FreeBSD will just become MS Windows, and it'll suck. I disagree with because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. Its better at providing window$ functionality than window$ is and is a lot more stable. If linux can do that, than imagine what well designed software on FreeBSD could do (is doing)? Linux may suck (I agree mostly with that sentiment), but it still is a good halfway house for head stuck in the sand M$ users looking for a better way of doing things. Then they can graduate to utopia... :) KDE4 at least works better and closer to how it should be on FreeBSD- even if it is incomplete. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 21:35 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. exactly what i wrote. the problem is that people like You (and millions others) are willing to buy product without any documentation. if you think they do this to hide their hardware secrets you are wrong. See x86 instruction set - does it reveal how Intel or Amd made their processor so fast? no! They do this to hide their hardware faults that way - that's the true reason they do this. With new hardware produced every year it MUST be buggy and certainly there are thousands of hardware bugs. with secret drivers - they can easily hide them. AFAIK at least half of their driver code are to do workaround of their hardware bugs. Actually that sounds like a very close approximation of what is going on. It explains why cpu usage can go up some times during use. What I can't equate with is why its acceptable for intel to do the same... check if_iwi and its firmware. No other wifi device (that I'm aware of- at least they'd be in the minority anyway) works this way. The excuse is fcc regs- I doubt that... And before anyone defends intel: I've spent a lot of time wasted on making their stupid nics to work in windows, I usually just flick em and put in a rl nic. The cpus are shit as well- I've had no end of trouble with them, plus too hot, power hungry etc. Alas, finding a decent notebook with an alternative has been to no avail... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 17:59 +0700, Outback Dingo wrote: Wouldn't kerberos be a better alternative? One server (maybe a replicated backup), and all services authenticate with that. Saves shadow on the wire... I think the ulitimate question is going to be at what level of pain does the person wish to suffer to achieve his goals there are numerous ways to do it, though some can be painful, if not experienced. I struggle to get my brain around an environment with mulitple OSes in it, where i would lean towards the LDAP method, though you raise a valid point where kerberos could fit nicely, though Im not sure we are aware of the long term goals or the project where one might be adding in other types of Operating Systems. Then we have the discussion of interoperability. If it stays as in his game plan and doesnt encounter scope creep (not like it doesnt happen) at some time, he might wish to choose the best overall design to implement, again my vote would be LDAP. it is the most globally scaable, relocable and interoperable once its deployed allowing for future growth without a serious amount of pain. Actually kerberos is quite widely supported in one form or other and is mostly interoperable (from my understanding anyway), and its surprisingly easy to implement- easier than ldap in my opinion. Even M$ crap uses it (different implementation, but basically the same). Plus the security it offers is by far worth the pain that could be caused. You mainly have to concentrate attention on the kdc access, as all auth runs off it, instead of every service on the network. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: (no subject)
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 15:47 +0330, abedini wrote: Hi all dear I have laptop acer 4220 and I need to install FreeBSD. This laptop have sata HDD how can install FreeBSD in this system. If you have the iso for freebsd on cd you can simply boot from the cd and follow the bouncing ball (similar to other systems except still in text mode). Other than that follow the handbook found under documentation on the freebsd site. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Firebird client fails port install
I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 23:53 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 02:50:00PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:25 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: I think he's trying to say that open source drivers would be preferable, and to develop them we'd need the hardware specs so we'd have a target toward which to develop drivers. Of course, preferable is my choice of term -- he seems to be more of the opinion that anything that isn't strictly open source should just be shunned, out of hand. While it would be nice if that was a practical option, it isn't really, at this point. Perhaps he'd be more at home in the Fedora community which are adamant about that too... :P Perhaps so. OpenBSD is pretty adamant about that, too -- more so than Fedora, I think. In fact, the OpenBSD project seems to be the most adamant open source OS project, about keeping everything open (except the format of the installer, for some inconsistent as hell damned reason), that I've seen. Actually, patents are publicly documented by definition -- we're just not *allowed* to use it, once it has been patented, without permission. The sort of thing they don't want to divulge is trade secrets, which you meantioned -- not patents, which you also mentioned. For some reason, though, some hardware vendors seem inclined to use patents as an excuse for keeping secrets, which never made much sense to me. IANAL, though I read about the law from time to time. Ok, so moving forward on this point: How exactly does this help in developing drivers for FreeBSD? Patents are ideas- right? So wouldn't this mean that it would still require guessing and estimation of what should happen and how to do it? The problem with open source driver development is lack of documented implementation details and the illegality of reproducing anything covered by patent -- not lack of patent documentation. You also mention that they're publicly accessible- how? Whats the portal and how would you search for required device? I don't do patent searches regularly, but I'd probably start with the US Patent Office site. Okay, I did a Google search for USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark Office), clicked the first link, clicked through a menu item, and found this page: http://patft.uspto.gov/ Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 12:54 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Most of them don't. Considering that, the moment someone shows up and says I'm a Windows user, but I'm thinking about trying out FreeBSD, you immediately assume the person doesn't want to learn without bothering to read any further, I yes. because if this person would like, he/she would read FreeBSD handbook first! Considering my comments previously regarding this list and the handbook's direction to here for support and questions, perhaps you should follow your own advice? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 19:21 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:39:26AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: Hence why I tend to send really green unix newbies to linux school than grind their teeth on FreeBSD straight up. Let em get their skills and experience in how *nix in general works on something a little easier (for MIB lovers: noisy cricket), then move up to the big guns. Why not send them to something like DesktopBSD or PC-BSD, or even FreeSBIE (if that project is still around)? If they go to some chintzy user-obsequious Linux distribution like PCLinuxOS first, they'll just have more stuff to unlearn *if* it ever occurs to them to give some BSD Unix variant a try -- and if they haven't been poisoned against BSD Unix systems by GNU/FSF propaganda in the meantime. I doubt it. Knowing how linux works, they'll get sick of its layout and config and appreciate the BSD way once they get the hang of handling *nix methods. The hardware issues are across all those BSD platforms, which makes it tougher for newbies coming from the handfed world. Unlearning is _real_ easy when the config and layout is shit. As for the GNU philosophy, consider Ubuntu popularity versus Fedora. Fedora takes the high road, and Ubuntu allows the users to subscribe to extra repositories of software- guess which users prefer? The threads for these arguments on the Fedora list exceed even this one in length! FreeBSD ports- you can install pretty much whatever license type in software you want, as long as someone has setup a port for it. Users consider THAT freedom. Plus, if you compile your own software there is a clear place to install it, not wandering in confusion between /usr, /opt, /usr/local, and any other variation of these (and maybe more...). I think freebsd is great, but if you haven't clue about *nix don't waste time- get some bearings first on a simple similar system which offers more user friendly features and all the cli stuff, then try the real thing. Don't worry- those worth their salt will return, the rest will stay where they're happy. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 02:16 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. Not under patent, at least in the US, last I heard. (IANAL) A patent is infringed by any reproduction of the technology involved, even entirely independently. Someone described the justification as avoiding a situation in which it would pay to be ignorant of what others had done. If you have done your own research then the algorithms wouldn't necessarily be the same- they'd nearly certainly be different, wouldn't they? So isn't that the basis for the patent? A patent is a registration of an idea. Two different ideas can still arrive at the same conclusion. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. At least in the US, that works for copyright but not for patent. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Again, it depends on exactly what is patented (strictly speaking, what the patent's claims are.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 12:49 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think that can be handled quite easily by community social pressure, and moderation would just set a precedent for it's someone else's job. moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. I started here myself a long time ago, I wouldn't have the foggiest what you'd be on about if I'd have come across your comments. I hardly do now if it's any consolation, but thats more disbelief than lack of knowledge or willingness to learn. Another fact on this matter is the very point of why the reply-to of this list is not to the list itself (a matter for argument which has resurfaced on a regular basis): one does not have to be actually subscribed to this list to post to it. So of course the really fresh and uncertain ARE going to come here- this is THE first port of call. And all of this is IN the handbook. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 02:11 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 05:11:00PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Be very careful. Even in the US, where there's a presumption of innocence built into criminal law, the presumption of innocence doesn't apply in civil court. Well thats what they teach in university- recently too. If you can show evidence that you arrived at your own conclusion without reverse engineering then your free and clear. Keep in mind though that that IS only in theory... although I personally would consider that just. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:49 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. there is freebsd-newbies for this. this group is freebsd-question = questions about FreeBSD. That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. Thats not where THE handbook sends them first, is it now? As you say RTFM. If you have a problem with this then you need to take it up with the FreeBSD Team. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:43 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. That doesn't sound like a good system (US not yours) - how on earth did it get so screwed up? (Thats rhetorical btw, I don't mean to start a whole discussion on that topic on this list.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 15:49 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. I did that in the end, but that doesn't really solve the problem now does it? I'll take it up with ports and see if I can't figure out whats wrong... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:47 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:27:30PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: If you have done your own research then the algorithms wouldn't necessarily be the same- they'd nearly certainly be different, wouldn't they? So isn't that the basis for the patent? A patent is a registration of an idea. Two different ideas can still arrive at the same conclusion. Patents are often about methods, not algorithms. In fact, there's supposedly a restriction against algorithms being patented -- though of course lawmakers and people working at the patent office don't seem to know what an algorithm is, so algorithms do get patented all the time. Anyway . . . as it happens, patenting a method provides far more broad power than patenting an algorithm, anyway, in practice. That's one of the reason (software) patents are so damaging. I think I might take it up with my lawyer if I want to do something like this then. Seems like they've got it all wrapped up... My conclusion is that it sucks and blows - something that shouldn't be physically possible. But that seems to be life atm :( (globally, not mine) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 16:49 -0500, Mark Moellering wrote: Da Rock wrote: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 15:49 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. I did that in the end, but that doesn't really solve the problem now does it? I'll take it up with ports and see if I can't figure out whats wrong... The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that they want you to run as su, as opposed to a true root login. Perhaps later someone with more experience will answer, I can't believe you are the first/only person to do this. As a matter of fact I never use true root I ALWAYS use su (believe it or not a M$ directive in the MCSE course I did years ago- never use administrator, copy administrative capabilities to the username used). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 23:46 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: As a matter of fact I never use true root I ALWAYS use su (believe it or what's a practical difference between logging to root directly or doing su? The log files log exactly who did what instead of anonymously. At the least they show who had su'd to root and when, but from my experience it says the user and what was done. Incidentally, I first heard of this practice through my MCSE (where basically M$ NT was bagged as the worst system ever- strange wouldn't you say seeing as it was an M$ course?), but the practice has been in use for years by old school *nix administrators and has been a specified as best practice. Just read nearly any *nix manual or tutorial. Why do you think the sysinstall for freebsd and just about every *nix distro says to create a user account so you don't use root? It also sometimes states to use su to gain root privileges in the warning message. It actually frightens me how many new administrators don't bother with following this policy- even ISPs. It helps with forensic analysis, and if you suddenly find root doing stuff in your logs (if you follow the best practice methods) then you know it wasn't you or anybody authorised. If anybody here can tell me how to enforce this policy in practice I'd be very interested to hear it (although I doubt one could prevent console access to root ICE). Maybe a method to obtain the user's name or soemthing. I think it can only be enforced in policy and not practice, though. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 16:23 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 07:07:36AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:43 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. That doesn't sound like a good system (US not yours) - how on earth did it get so screwed up? (Thats rhetorical btw, I don't mean to start a whole discussion on that topic on this list.) It's much the same everywhere, from what I've seen. The problems just arise in different guises. Usually, judging by my observations, they arise in large part because of the common notion that a problem can be fixed with more of the behavior that created the problem in the first place. . . . but beyond that, I'd probably start a flame war, so I don't think I want to get more specific on the list. Probably not- the flames would probably be directed at a common enemy rather than amongst ourselves here. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: i686 CPU Compatibility
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 17:00 +0800, Abd Hamid Shamsi wrote: HI ADMIN, I just want to ask, is this freeBSD compatible with my i686 CPU. if there any, please advice me what version should i use. TQ Should do - i386 is just for arch type. I believe 7.0 is the latest current release. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Optimising pxeboot disk size
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 15:02 +0100, Bernard Dugas wrote: Wojciech Puchar wrote: i already did such things but with NetBSD 1.5 for my Xterminal distro. it's simple: More simple when you tell it ;-) Thanks a lot, i will try it tonight ! I wish it's helpful, doing this doesn't just save space but saves time - you have to upgrade software once. So preserving consistency, which is the most important when you have lot of diskless stations ! you may like to make /etc-common directory and put most of files there, and symlinks in each station's /etc In fact, it makes me think that we miss a concept in mount, or at least i don't know it currently : imagine a -tl (TransparentLayer) option for mount, allowing to mount multiple source to the same directory, for instance /etc : mount -r yournfsserver:/basic/etc /etc mount -tl -r yournfsserver:/TypeX/etc /etc mount -tl -r yournfsserver:/StationY/etc /etc A file is first look for in yournfsserver:/StationY/etc, then in yournfsserver:/TypeX/etc and finally in yournfsserver:/basic/etc. This means that StationX will see in its /etc firts its specific files, then the files dedicated to TypeX station (webserver, dns server, workstation,...) and then all basic files unchanged from standard distribution. When you want to change something, you add a rw TransparentLayer : mount -tl yournfsserver:/StationYchanges/etc /etc So that changed or added files are only stored in this rw partition, thus very small and easy to manage. This would be a kind of partition inheritance, like in object languages... Dreams are allowed :-) Apparently that sort of thing is available on plan9 OS. Everything is a file so you can mount remote and local devices- plus merge them in a single directory. Check it out on wikipedia... Dreams can come true! :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Publishing information via DNS
On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 19:07 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Someone needs to invent and promote a TextualDatagramPublicationProtocol or TDPP because DNS has been abused for publishing non DNS data for too long. Continuing to use DNS for things it was never intended to do will only cloud the issue and delay implementation when the internet decides to take DNS security seriously. where do you see security issue of that? except that someone voluntarily publish his/her private data this way - but it won't be DNS security problem but his/her problem I'm not pretending to be any kind of expert in this, but as with any software not used as it should it does get cloudy. Security in DNS is already an issue with care to be taken in who can see what and how it gets updated or what not- particularly with slave DNS' involved. I can't say what security issues it would raise, but I wouldn't be implementing anything like that myself for the same reasons. I'd stick to hostnames and maybe services which it was designed for. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: linux_base question
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 09:07 +0100, Mel wrote: On Thursday 18 December 2008 04:03:45 Chris wrote: I'm trying to keep all FreeBSD servers in my net as I have since the late 90s. I have a requirement to get a quickbooks enterprise server running so I was going to attempt to use compat_linux. It struck me that if I knew the following list of supported linux implementations, I should be able to figure out the best port to use. So far, it doesn't seem too clear to me. Here are the linux versions supported by the 2 daemons Intuit puts out: CentOS 5 Debian (Lenny) Fedora 6 / 7 / 8 Mandriva OpenSuSE 10.2 / 10.3 Ubuntu 6.06 / 7.04 / 7.10 / 8.0 Here are the components needed. Gamin - 0.1.7.7 or newer or Fam – 2.7.0 or newer Glibc – 2.5-3 or newer, or Libc6 – 2.5-3 or newer Libgcc – 4.2.1 or newer Libstdc++ - 4.2.1 or newer Which of the linux_base* ports would be best to attempt to run these two daemons. I just updated ports and have the following shown linux_base-f7 linux_base-f8 linux_base-fc4 linux_base-fc6 (and several Gentoo) On 6.x, use fc4. On 7.x use fc6 and set compat.linux.os_release to 2.6.16 (which will be the default for 7.x branch starting 7.1 as far as I know). You can use others, but these have the widest coverage in production systems and testing by the emulation team. Sorry to butt in here, but I've suffered similar confusion. In some blogs or wikis it mentions setting the sysctl compat.linux.osrelease to either 2.4.2 or 2.6.16, and (in some of my fiddling during tests) I've found I can actually set the kernel settings to suit pretty much any software that needs to run. If this is the case, what is the difference between the ports? Do the libraries change? Supporting software? Can freebsd effectively emulate any kernel version? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Suitability question
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 16:46 -0500, Glen Barber wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick Baldwin patrick.bald...@studsvik.com wrote: Usually I'm asking questions for work related things. This one is more personal. My father has this tendency to end up wrecking his computer if he uses the Internet much. Computers are basically magic boxes to him, so education is of limited usefulness here. Are you willing to maintain the machine for him? I'm thinking I might be best of trying to built him a really locked-down, high security box, almost an Internet appliance. All he really does is use the Web, and a little light word processing. Word processing won't be a problem, but internet 'toys' like Flash will be a problem, unless you use some wine+firefox workaround. What do people think of FreeBSD as the base OS for this idea? I think the idea's good, as long as you are willing to fix it when if it breaks on him. Maybe some minor support, but I think if you're going to this extent to lock it down, install specific apps only, etc, then setting it up with some auto scripts to clean things up and fix little errors you won't need to do much at all. Overall a very good idea- something I will be doing very soon too. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: Re: Sun sucks]
---BeginMessage--- On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 03:47 +, RW wrote: On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:10:10 -0500 Ansar Mohammed ans...@gmail.com wrote: After registering Sun complains that they don't like my ID and I need to provide more information. I create another account. Same problem. After 3 months I finally get an email saying they want clarification on the acronym for my company. Well there's your problem. You gave them too much information in the first place. I usually just make-up a name as a matter of principle. Just create a new account for some made-up name, don't specify any company, download your file, and then (if you really care) go through the hoops afterwards. I'm finding that I'm actually running out of names... keeps coming back saying it already exists! I now keep a record of a crap name and reuse it every time. ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: Re: FreeBSD Boot Manager]
---BeginMessage--- On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 21:44 -0500, Steve Bertrand wrote: Grant Peel wrote: Can I use a windows install cd's R option to do the fdisk /mbr ? I don't know. It's been $years since I've had to use a Windows install CD for such a thing. If it's win32, my experience would have me recommend just booting from a floppy of a win boot disk to restore the MBR. It's just quick that way. If my memory serves right, even a win98 boot disk should work. If memory serves, I believe there is an option to simply go to cli and all the tools are there on the cd ready for you. I could be wrong or outdated though- probably both... :) ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: Re: programs...]
---BeginMessage--- What about Miro? On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 23:19 -0800, Gary Kline wrote: On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 08:43:09AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 11:03:29PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, I've going to give away what I think could be at least a multi-thousand dollar idea, something we nearly have already. And a wish-list for a program that does not, AFAIK, exist. Its called iTunes. First, the wish-for:: given all the kinds of video and audio programs that are now on the web, how difficult would it be to have a GUI [interface] program pop up a screen with date of airing, and/or date of podcast? Not to exceed several hours worth of recorded podcasts... or live recording. iTunes will suck them down and has settings for when (if ever) to delete old podcasts. I can only give examples of thing I watch, but this will give you some idea. And bear in mind that at least FreeBSD cannot capture some programs. Like FRONTLINE on PBS. But for the sake of argument, let's say that firefox or whatever browser or kmplayer or another player did have the proper codecs. This GUI app would find, fetch, and store in /usr/local/tmp FRONTLINE, NOVA, In Our Time and Everyday Ethics [BBC], and Marketplace, Weekend, 10jan09. iTunes stores in ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Podcasts/ Music/audio only, or video too? When these programs were safely in /usr/local/tmp/Pods, the program would send mail or otherwise inform the user. Script from cron to detect presence of a new file in the above, send notification. There are FreeBSD ports for subscribing to podcasts that could do the same thing. How doable is this...? and, yes, i know that many of these audio files can be subscribed to as podcasts. I have several on my Google page. Get A Mac! Ha! Well, I stand to inherit my daughter's MacBook in a few years. Okay, so if Apple has this, can I use it? I mean for-free, not having to sub to some monthly deal or whatever? This is an idea I thought up a couple years ago when all the audio podcasts began appearing. At any rate, seems to me that the open-* community could do at least as well as our brother hackers at Apple. Just a thought. Come Monday, OZ-time, I'll let everybody know my major idea. ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: Re: Cannot get ethernet off the ground]
---BeginMessage--- On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 18:07 +0100, Roland Smith wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 08:08:16PM -0500, William Gordon Rutherdale wrote: I'm afraid it's gone from bad to worse. The 7.1 system may have recognised the ethernet adapter, but it seemed to fail writing to the hard drive. I got this during installation: Progress Extracting GENERIC into /boot directory... Message Write failure on transfer! (wrote -1 bytes of 1425408 bytes) /mtrt: write failed, filesystem is full. - I think I allocated decent size partitions for /, /var, swap, /tmp, /usr. I made multiple attempts. Kept getting errors. The 'filesystem is full' message might imply that the partition for root is too small. What were the filesystem sizes you chose? There should be an item in the main install menu to start a shell. If you take that option and use the 'df -h' command, you should see the sizes of the mounted partitions. What happens if you just make one giant partition? Roland Going back to the original issue- the rtl 8111E is not really supported. Buying another card does seem to be a bit redundant, but there is 6.x sources for this card which work (albeit on 6.x). So maybe try 6.4? For the developers out there, what is the difference between BSD versions? Why wouldn't a driver for 6.x work on later versions- I need technical detail or pointers to it not just a simple answer. I'm looking at resolving some of the driver issues but I'm really green- yes, I'm finally getting off my ass and doing something other than complaining... not that I have the time, but I have my own problems to resolve here which I can't wait on :) Now, if the filesystem is full have you redone all the filesystem through sysinstall or are you simply loading over the top of previous versions? ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: Re: FreeBSD USB Install]
---BeginMessage--- On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 14:11 -0200, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote: Hello I notice that when you write zeros to the first sectors of the pen drive it gets mad about it and you must make fsck and disklabel TWICE... the first time, it complains, the second time it works fine I assume you have grub installed (pkg_add -r grub) I use the folowing procedure: 1) put the pen drive on the computer it finds at da0 2) dd bs=512 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da0 count=20 2) fdisk -BI /dev/da0 3) disklabel -w -B /dev/da0s1 4) fdisk -BI /dev/da0 5) disklabel -w -B /dev/da0s1 6) newfs -L FreeBSDstick /dev/da0s1a 7) mount -o async /dev/da0s1a /mnt 8) mkdir /mnt/boot/grub 9) cd /usr/local/share/grub/*/ 10 cp * /mnt/boot/grub 11) cat % /mnt/boot/grub/menu.lst title FreeBSD on USB root (hd0,0,a) kernel /boot/loader % 12) umount /mnt 13) grub --batch % device (hd7) /dev/da0 root (hd7,0,a) setup (hd7) % = now just populate the /mnt with bsd and your system should come up... = Hope this will help... Here i use 4gb pen-drivers running FreeBSD 7 with zfs... it works fine and very fast... Sergio. This seems to be a bit of a sideline... but how does it work if you move the disk around? Assuming generic kernel, you should be boot that kernel on practically any machine- right? But I had trouble with it not finding the drive- boot manager ok, install fine, just won't boot. I assumed that the da0xxx was simply a pointer (programming speak) so that if you inserted the disk somewhere else (another port, another m/c, etc) it may not point to the same place for booting. Would this be right? ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: age0 driver power issues - device_attach error 6]
---BeginMessage--- I'm getting issues similar to what others have seen in the pre-release 7.1. I'm using the release version because it supposedly has this driver, but the issue is when I'm on battery it'll work and load the driver, on ac forget it. Its on a laptop with an iwn device so I'm in for real hell - but thats for another post. The long and the short of it is: how do I fix it? What do I need to look at (source wise) to fix the issue and where can I find more precise info on it? Would an experienced developer (even the original who wrote the driver) be willing to guide me so I can fix more of these little issues with drivers until I can get the know how to write my own? Cheers ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: iwn driver on 7.1]
---BeginMessage--- I've tried the driver on 7.0- 8.0 current is out of the question as it still doesn't fully function either- but I'm trying to sort out 7.1 (might as well, I have many other issues to work out so I might as well fix them on this :) ). The driver patches compiles (iwn-7 from gavin), but when I load it goes through the channels and errors and finally dies with a full page fault. SO, firstly what info is needed here to help resolve this issue? Second, the full functionality of the card is not there- no encryption in transmission (no wep, wpa, etc), a channels not working, etc. Again is there someone who I could work with to help get this card working? For reference (Wojciech will be happy to know his suspicions are indeed correct :) ) linux has gone to the crapper and even debian can barely hold its own with the intel 4965. Incidentally none of the linuxes have consistent success at all, and I failed miserably on debian and fedora. Although it did work somewhat with fedora 8- strange huh? And its not the only area, drivers, kernel, software all seems deeply flawed now: seems the project is starting to crumble! I'm struggling to keep my tv server up and running on fedora 10 - there appears I may have a light at the end of my tunnel in that I may be able to get drivers working for freebsd! ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: USB problem during install]
---BeginMessage--- I was just running a check to see if I could install FreeBSD on my tv server and check the driver situation, but the cdboot failed with a usb issue- address not found. This occurred for 7.1, 7.0, and even 6.4. In my search I found many different reasons why it could be, but they were several years old (related to 5.x etc). Its always the same address 0x7fef1620, and I believe its the same port too. Currently the usb devices connected are an APC UPS, a Shintaro usb wireless keyboard with builtin mouse, a multi card reader, and I have two dvico tuner cards (dual fusions) which a dual dibcomms on each card connected to the system via their own usb chip. Based on my observations its actually hard to say which port is the problem, as the drivers are loaded and fork their own processes, so the error can show up later. Any ideas? Cheers ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
[Fwd: est1 device_attach error 6]
---BeginMessage--- Similar to the age0 problem in my previous post the enhanced speed step on this laptop on the second core of the cpu has the same problem- athough this doesn't appear to be power related (ac or battery that is). Where does this place the issue- acpi? ---End Message--- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Manager
On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 21:44 -0500, Steve Bertrand wrote: Grant Peel wrote: Can I use a windows install cd's R option to do the fdisk /mbr ? I don't know. It's been $years since I've had to use a Windows install CD for such a thing. If it's win32, my experience would have me recommend just booting from a floppy of a win boot disk to restore the MBR. It's just quick that way. If my memory serves right, even a win98 boot disk should work. If memory serves, I believe there is an option to simply go to cli and all the tools are there on the cd ready for you. I could be wrong or outdated though- probably both... :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Sun sucks
On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 03:47 +, RW wrote: On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:10:10 -0500 Ansar Mohammed ans...@gmail.com wrote: After registering Sun complains that they don't like my ID and I need to provide more information. I create another account. Same problem. After 3 months I finally get an email saying they want clarification on the acronym for my company. Well there's your problem. You gave them too much information in the first place. I usually just make-up a name as a matter of principle. Just create a new account for some made-up name, don't specify any company, download your file, and then (if you really care) go through the hoops afterwards. I'm finding that I'm actually running out of names... keeps coming back saying it already exists! I now keep a record of a crap name and reuse it every time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
est1 device_attach error 6
Similar to the age0 problem in my previous post the enhanced speed step on this laptop on the second core of the cpu has the same problem- athough this doesn't appear to be power related (ac or battery that is). Where does this place the issue- acpi? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Manager
On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 09:53 -0500, Grant Peel wrote: Hi Mike, I am not at all sure whate you are suggesting here? What I am asking, is, somehting like: Can I reboot the machine with the FreeBSD install disk, and using the sysinstall utility, reinstall the freebsd boot manger so I wind up with: F1 Windows F2 FreeBSD F5 Disk1 -Grant Not a chance- why do you think you have to install Window$ first? Gates and his cronies aren't going to make it easy for you to install free software, and so they make it as hard as possible hoping you'll install Window$ and give up. I haven't heard of anywhere that any of the freeloaders (pardon the pun) that can boot a M$ system- only paid for software like Bootmagic. Or use the M$ loader in window$ to boot other systems- strange that it should be able to do that, but then most of the OSS is KISS based rather than the rigmarole M$ go to. Again, I could be outdated and/or wrong on this, but I doubt it has changed. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
iwn driver on 7.1
I've tried the driver on 7.0- 8.0 current is out of the question as it still doesn't fully function either- but I'm trying to sort out 7.1 (might as well, I have many other issues to work out so I might as well fix them on this :) ). The driver patches compiles (iwn-7 from gavin), but when I load it goes through the channels and errors and finally dies with a full page fault. SO, firstly what info is needed here to help resolve this issue? Second, the full functionality of the card is not there- no encryption in transmission (no wep, wpa, etc), a channels not working, etc. Again is there someone who I could work with to help get this card working? For reference (Wojciech will be happy to know his suspicions are indeed correct :) ) linux has gone to the crapper and even debian can barely hold its own with the intel 4965. Incidentally none of the linuxes have consistent success at all, and I failed miserably on debian and fedora. Although it did work somewhat with fedora 8- strange huh? And its not the only area, drivers, kernel, software all seems deeply flawed now: seems the project is starting to crumble! I'm struggling to keep my tv server up and running on fedora 10 - there appears I may have a light at the end of my tunnel in that I may be able to get drivers working for freebsd! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: programs...
What about Miro? On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 23:19 -0800, Gary Kline wrote: On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 08:43:09AM -0600, David Kelly wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 11:03:29PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, I've going to give away what I think could be at least a multi-thousand dollar idea, something we nearly have already. And a wish-list for a program that does not, AFAIK, exist. Its called iTunes. First, the wish-for:: given all the kinds of video and audio programs that are now on the web, how difficult would it be to have a GUI [interface] program pop up a screen with date of airing, and/or date of podcast? Not to exceed several hours worth of recorded podcasts... or live recording. iTunes will suck them down and has settings for when (if ever) to delete old podcasts. I can only give examples of thing I watch, but this will give you some idea. And bear in mind that at least FreeBSD cannot capture some programs. Like FRONTLINE on PBS. But for the sake of argument, let's say that firefox or whatever browser or kmplayer or another player did have the proper codecs. This GUI app would find, fetch, and store in /usr/local/tmp FRONTLINE, NOVA, In Our Time and Everyday Ethics [BBC], and Marketplace, Weekend, 10jan09. iTunes stores in ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Podcasts/ Music/audio only, or video too? When these programs were safely in /usr/local/tmp/Pods, the program would send mail or otherwise inform the user. Script from cron to detect presence of a new file in the above, send notification. There are FreeBSD ports for subscribing to podcasts that could do the same thing. How doable is this...? and, yes, i know that many of these audio files can be subscribed to as podcasts. I have several on my Google page. Get A Mac! Ha! Well, I stand to inherit my daughter's MacBook in a few years. Okay, so if Apple has this, can I use it? I mean for-free, not having to sub to some monthly deal or whatever? This is an idea I thought up a couple years ago when all the audio podcasts began appearing. At any rate, seems to me that the open-* community could do at least as well as our brother hackers at Apple. Just a thought. Come Monday, OZ-time, I'll let everybody know my major idea. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
USB problem during install
I was just running a check to see if I could install FreeBSD on my tv server and check the driver situation, but the cdboot failed with a usb issue- address not found. This occurred for 7.1, 7.0, and even 6.4. In my search I found many different reasons why it could be, but they were several years old (related to 5.x etc). Its always the same address 0x7fef1620, and I believe its the same port too. Currently the usb devices connected are an APC UPS, a Shintaro usb wireless keyboard with builtin mouse, a multi card reader, and I have two dvico tuner cards (dual fusions) which a dual dibcomms on each card connected to the system via their own usb chip. Based on my observations its actually hard to say which port is the problem, as the drivers are loaded and fork their own processes, so the error can show up later. Any ideas? Cheers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Cannot get ethernet off the ground
On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 18:07 +0100, Roland Smith wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 08:08:16PM -0500, William Gordon Rutherdale wrote: I'm afraid it's gone from bad to worse. The 7.1 system may have recognised the ethernet adapter, but it seemed to fail writing to the hard drive. I got this during installation: Progress Extracting GENERIC into /boot directory... Message Write failure on transfer! (wrote -1 bytes of 1425408 bytes) /mtrt: write failed, filesystem is full. - I think I allocated decent size partitions for /, /var, swap, /tmp, /usr. I made multiple attempts. Kept getting errors. The 'filesystem is full' message might imply that the partition for root is too small. What were the filesystem sizes you chose? There should be an item in the main install menu to start a shell. If you take that option and use the 'df -h' command, you should see the sizes of the mounted partitions. What happens if you just make one giant partition? Roland Going back to the original issue- the rtl 8111E is not really supported. Buying another card does seem to be a bit redundant, but there is 6.x sources for this card which work (albeit on 6.x). So maybe try 6.4? For the developers out there, what is the difference between BSD versions? Why wouldn't a driver for 6.x work on later versions- I need technical detail or pointers to it not just a simple answer. I'm looking at resolving some of the driver issues but I'm really green- yes, I'm finally getting off my ass and doing something other than complaining... not that I have the time, but I have my own problems to resolve here which I can't wait on :) Now, if the filesystem is full have you redone all the filesystem through sysinstall or are you simply loading over the top of previous versions? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
