[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Update of bug #17740 (project freeciv): Status: Ready For Test = Fixed Open/Closed:Open = Closed ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #18, bug #17740 (project freeciv): i just add one thing to this: migration should test current food before testing food after migrate this should player allow partialy control migration to bigger cities and allowing them build new around them basicaly if i have +4 food and put workers as ent/sci/tax so i have -x food, they wont migrate as it is now, they would migrate unless city reaches some critical production limit like when i put 12 of 20 workers off (or ppl wait til city is full and they can start new city) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #19, bug #17740 (project freeciv): migration should test current food before testing food after migrate this is done in the code if mgr_foodneeded is enabled! The code allows migration only if the new city has enough food surplus or if the food output is = 0 if the new citizens are used as workers. If you have an example there this does not work, please post a savegame. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #17, bug #17740 (project freeciv): should this patch go into S2_3? The report is agains 2.3-beta3 ... ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #13, bug #17740 (project freeciv): That being said, i've seen an AI city of size 32; i struggle keep a city 12 even with Aquaduct, Sewer System, Hospital and Genetic Lab. Is there something else i'm missing? Yes, the AI is building improvements to increase the city health. At some time I did create a patch to _reduce_ the AI want for such building as it uses them even in small cities and, thus, reduces its income. There are no special effect to reduce the effects of plague for the AI. Frequent plagues should be a deterrent to migration. I will create a patch which considers plagues in the migration score. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Update of bug #17740 (project freeciv): Status:None = Ready For Test Assigned to:None = syntron Planned Release: = 2.4.0 ___ Follow-up Comment #14: and here is the patch; the health factor is defined as: f = (100 - [city illness; tenth of %]/25) please test it! Should this also go to 2.3.0? consider the city health in the migration score * do not calculate illness if it is deactivated * cleanup comments for the city food surplus score see gna bug #17740 requested by Brandon J. Van Every bvanevery (file #12469) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: 20110216-consider-the-city-health-in-the-migration-score.patch Size:2 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #15, bug #17740 (project freeciv): it does not apply to S2_3 and trunk doesn't compile... I'll check later. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #16, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I did only check trung (again with the last commits). It does compiles fine ... ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #2, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I'm playing beta3 with the experimental ruleset. I have a size 2 city that's building a settler. I have not activated the disband if build settler at size 1 option. When the settler is built, the city drops to size 1. Then people migrate to my nearby capital, disbanding the city. I don't think this behavior should be allowed. [...] My idea behind migration is that this is something the citizens decide for themself. It should focus on some big MegaCities which eat (=disband) smaller cities. Perhaps a small wounder 'DoNotDisband' should be added. If a cities contains a wonder it will never be disbanded ... And it's doubly annoying when a few turns later, those migrating citizens die of plague in an overpopulated city. What exactly were they migrating for? Better opportunities for finger rot? This should be prevented by the following server option: Option: mgr_foodneeded - Whether migration is limited by food Description: If this setting is enabled, citizens will not migrate to cities which would not have enough food to support them. This setting has no effect unless migration is enabled by the 'migration' setting. Status: changeable Value: enabled, Default: enabled ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #3, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I do not see why mgr_foodneeded would change plague behavior. The option would need to be more like mgr_healthneeded. I could see a city disbanding if it has no resources of interest and no buildings. It does not make sense if the city has valuable resources within its radius that a major city cannot use. Who is going to bring those resources to market? Who is going to defend the frontier? If I were a monarch and I built a city wall and barracks somewhere, and people deserted, I would have them summarily executed upon their arrival to a major city. Under a Republic or a Democracy I wouldn't expect to have that kind of control. In a Communism you jolly well go to where the State tells you. If they tell you not to leave the country, you don't, at peril to your life. I suggest weighting resource specials so that cities tend to keep a population that works them. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #4, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I do not see why mgr_foodneeded would change plague behavior. The option would need to be more like mgr_healthneeded. Sorry, I did not read the 'plague' in your text. But this is a random value. Perhaps health should be considered in the migration score? I could see a city disbanding if it has no resources of interest and no buildings. It does not make sense if the city has valuable resources within its radius that a major city cannot use. Who is going to bring those resources to market? Who is going to defend the frontier? If I were a monarch and I built a city wall and barracks somewhere, and people deserted, I would have them summarily executed upon their arrival to a major city. Under a Republic or a Democracy I wouldn't expect to have that kind of control. In a Communism you jolly well go to where the State tells you. If they tell you not to leave the country, you don't, at peril to your life. This is possible using effects; See effect_migration_*: You can change the possiblity for migration depending on the government. I suggest weighting resource specials so that cities tend to keep a population that works them. This would really increase the calculation cost as the whole city radius has to be iterated each time the score is calculated. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #5, bug #17740 (project freeciv): And why shouldn't the whole city working area being considered? That is a huge part of what's valuable about a city's location. I don't put cities on oceanfront property just to be cute, I put them there because there are fish and whales. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #6, bug #17740 (project freeciv): Well, maybe it should be forgiven to have the migration event on a city that has produced a settler on the same turn... OTOH, the plague effect its so hard. It happens a lot, so that cities can never reach size 8. So you have to build an aqueduct or an hospital. It shuts down expansion a lot. Maybe it should be weakened... ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #7, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I think if the city is building a Settler, it should diminish the desire to migrate. After all, settlement *is* migration. It doesn't have to completely stop migration, as a city could take too long to produce a settler, or a player could be building a settler disingenuously to prevent migration. The AI can't handle the plagues. When I play on Experimental AI difficulty, it's trivial to get ahead because the AI has no strategy for dealing with the plagues. Trying my 1st serious game under these new rules, it took me until Turn 200 to get to Miniaturization, at which point my nearest competitor only had Industrialization. Other civs were barely beyond Gunpowder. Probably the AI believes that smallpox is good, whereas under plague rules, it's clearly a bad strategy. Aqueducts are expensive, and they're the only way to deal with plague. A civ that builds lots of aqueducts in every city goes bankrupt. The AI doesn't really know how to build a few good big pox cities. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #8, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I'm not sure that AI players are even subject to plague. I've captured several fairly large cities from them that don't even aquaducts, much less hospital etc. As soon as i take over they suffer turn after turn of plague and basically melt away. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #9, bug #17740 (project freeciv): I'm not sure that AI players are even subject to plague. I've captured several fairly large cities from them that don't even aquaducts, much less hospital etc. I don't know if experimental ruleset has special effects increasing health of ai players, but did you use diplomats to investigate that those cities had not those buildings before your forces went in. Buildings are destroyed when city is captured. See server setting 'razechance' ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #10, bug #17740 (project freeciv): In the back of my mind, i knew there was something i was forgetting. Yes, i've been using a building destruction rate of 20%. Next time i will inspect the house before i start breaking furniture... That being said, i've seen an AI city of size 32; i struggle keep a city 12 even with Aquaduct, Sewer System, Hospital and Genetic Lab. Is there something else i'm missing? ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #11, bug #17740 (project freeciv): Maybe pollution? ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #12, bug #17740 (project freeciv): A size 36 city needs food, a supermarket, farmland, and celebration under a democracy. I had another instance this evening of my capital losing pop because of plague, then next turn some idiots migrate to the capitol because they think it's better. The city disbands. Then next turn those idiots die of plague in my capitol. Frequent plagues should be a deterrent to migration. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 Summary: migration disbands city Project: Freeciv Submitted by: bvanevery Submitted on: Tue 15 Feb 2011 05:46:11 AM GMT Category: rulesets Severity: 3 - Normal Priority: 5 - Normal Status: None Assigned to: None Originator Email: Open/Closed: Open Release: 2.3.0-beta3 Discussion Lock: Any Operating System: Microsoft Windows Planned Release: ___ Details: I'm playing beta3 with the experimental ruleset. I have a size 2 city that's building a settler. I have not activated the disband if build settler at size 1 option. When the settler is built, the city drops to size 1. Then people migrate to my nearby capital, disbanding the city. I don't think this behavior should be allowed. Outpost cities extend the boundary of the empire, allow observation of trespassers, use resources that are not currently available to a larger nearby city, may have a coastal outlet where a larger nearby city has none, may produce a stream of settlers at a usefully productive rate, and may have a barracks or a city wall. Just disbanding my cities willy nilly is really irritating. I think it is reasonable for migration to reduce a city's population to 1, but no more. ___ File Attachments: --- Date: Tue 15 Feb 2011 05:46:11 AM GMT Name: losesetter.sav.gz Size: 38kB By: bvanevery http://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=12458 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #17740] migration disbands city
Follow-up Comment #1, bug #17740 (project freeciv): And it's doubly annoying when a few turns later, those migrating citizens die of plague in an overpopulated city. What exactly were they migrating for? Better opportunities for finger rot? ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?17740 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
