Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

s.

Part of the costs of living is hitting americans for no good
reason now to. Inusrance. why do not have a NHS like, um bassicly
every other country? I don't know. but. after you get laid off
because of a virus. No insurance and that's a stupidly high cost.
that adds to the costs of living.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 11:50 AM Marcus Daniels
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:

I don’t find the cost of living argument so convincing.   If
one can accumulate wealth and retire or work remotely, it is
possible to get the benefits of a low cost of living while
still having a high income. However, what’s unsaid, is that
people do value other things, like being in the vicinity of
their friends and family.    Also in the U.S., especially,
what we value is a political football.   If half a million
people die of COVID-19, that can be defined away in the name
of jobs.   Or the economy can be equated with the markets,
etc.   How much terror and suffering is enough to make one
doubt ones definition of wealth?

*From:* Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Robert J.
Cordingley
*Sent:* Saturday, March 13, 2021 6:44 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>; Merle Lefkoff
mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?

Steve

If you are taking a poll...

For starters on what wealth might mean economically, it might
be useful to understand the cost of living and purchasing
power by country
<https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php>. Is 'wealthy'
some factor based on a ratio of income over cost of living?

I don't know how you would measure cultural wealth and how
colonialism played a part in its accumulation via subjugation.
There must be other categories of wealth; spiritual wealth,
artistic wealth, land ownership, public wealth, private
wealth, etc.. How would native Americans and other indigenous
population discuss the concept?

At the excessive levels of the ultra-rich (Besos and co),
wealth is for giving away for perhaps some altruistic purpose.
Cynically, some might see this as a way for making amends for
all the transgressions committed on the way?

More commonly wealth is accumulated to help the next
generation in one's family regardless of culture and
purchasing power?

Robert C.

On 3/12/21 7:24 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

Can we please start with how we define "wealth."  Please.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:31 PM Steve Smith
mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote:

Tangenting off of the Great Man discussion, I would
like to solicit a
discussion on  "What is Wealth for".  I believe we
have attended to this
on the side many times (I remember a vFriam where it
was declared that
"Billionaires are Assholes, but Millionaires aren't
(necessarily)"?

Each of our Great (Wo)Men on the snark/not-snark list
share one thing in
common, Wealth.   I'd be interested to hear others
riff a little more on
their taxonomies of "what is Wealth for?"

- Steve


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Re: [FRIAM] What is Wealth for?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Steve

If you are taking a poll...

For starters on what wealth might mean economically, it might be useful 
to understand the cost of living and purchasing power by country 
.  Is 'wealthy' some 
factor based on a ratio of income over cost of living?


I don't know how you would measure cultural wealth and how colonialism 
played a part in its accumulation via subjugation. There must be other 
categories of wealth; spiritual wealth, artistic wealth, land ownership, 
public wealth, private wealth, etc.. How would native Americans and 
other indigenous population discuss the concept?


At the excessive levels of the ultra-rich (Besos and co), wealth is for 
giving away for perhaps some altruistic purpose. Cynically, some might 
see this as a way for making amends for all the transgressions committed 
on the way?


More commonly wealth is accumulated to help the next generation in one's 
family regardless of culture and purchasing power?


Robert C.

On 3/12/21 7:24 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

Can we please start with how we define "wealth."  Please.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:31 PM Steve Smith > wrote:


Tangenting off of the Great Man discussion, I would like to solicit a
discussion on  "What is Wealth for".  I believe we have attended
to this
on the side many times (I remember a vFriam where it was declared that
"Billionaires are Assholes, but Millionaires aren't (necessarily)"?

Each of our Great (Wo)Men on the snark/not-snark list share one
thing in
common, Wealth.   I'd be interested to hear others riff a little
more on
their taxonomies of "what is Wealth for?"

- Steve


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Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org 
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110


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Re: [FRIAM] Acronyms

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I think you're discussing initialisms not acronyms. Laser, scuba and 
Nasa are acronyms. TLA is a TLI


On 1/26/21 9:33 AM, Barry MacKichan wrote:


Clearly a context-sensitive TLA.

On 26 Jan 2021, at 11:24, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Three Mile Island, of course.


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Re: [FRIAM] incitement

[Robert J. Cordingley]

So textually analyze "will no one rid me of this turbulent priest 
"! 



Your last sentiment if widely held is scary indeed. Acquitting is being 
absolved of the crime.  As others have pointed out what would a 
president have to do to be found guilty if not to want to and attempt to 
encourage the overthrowing of the results of a legally held, fair and 
square democratic election result? With Trump gone(?) the sore 
 
still exists and we need to deter other wannabe autocrats from a repeat 
performance. It's not a laughing matter.


Robert

On 1/19/21 9:02 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:

How Trump’s language shifted in the weeks leading up to the Capitol riot – 2 
linguists explain
https://theconversation.com/how-trumps-language-shifted-in-the-weeks-leading-up-to-the-capitol-riot-2-linguists-explain-152483

There's plenty to doubt, there. But it follows along our previous conversations 
about ambiguity (both [in]formal) and binding. Personally, I don't believe 
Trump purposefully incited the riot. He'd have to be a literal genius to 
*purposefully* use language like this with the intent/objectives attributed to 
him. What does it mean, though, to *accidentally* incite a riot? Where does 
_mens rea_ fall for incitement? It seems most plausible that Trump is simply 
pre-adapted to riot-incitement by his years of practiced marketing bullsh¡t and 
the trendly positive feedback he gets from that marketing bullsh¡t. He did 
incite a *rally*. He loves when his groupies get together to fawn over him. But 
did he incite them to riot? I don't think so. Laughable as the idea is, were I 
a Senator, I'd probably vote to acquit.

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Re: [FRIAM] Biden beats Trump

[Robert J. Cordingley]

BTW, I worry smiling Pompeo wasn't in denial he was predicting a 'smooth 
transition to a second term'.


Meanwhile, PBS is showing the Rise of the Nazis see 
https://www.pbs.org/show/rise-nazis/. It took 4 years for the Nazis to 
destroy democracy.


-Robert C

On 11/11/20 4:11 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
So at some point, too, though, there are actual facts and things and 
events in the world, which aren’t just cut from the fabric of human 
impression and attitude.


Suppose the following; as I was walking thisPM, after finally watching 
the Van Jones TED that Glen circulated, it seemed quite believable to me.


1. Suppose what Van sketches is actually the plan.  Trump plans to 
instigate a constitutional crisis.  I think he is capable of planning 
to that degree of complexity and on that time horizon.  And I have no 
reason in the world not to think Bill Barr would be down with the 
lark, and could advise him on the law to do it.  I’m not sure Pompeo 
has the same background, but in character I expect he would think it 
is a great idea.


2. Then we wind up in congress.  He doesn’t have a huge margin; there 
are only 26 republican representatives (or whatever the name is for 
them).  So he really needs them all.  That’s what the last four years 
has been for.  Figure out who has any other levers besides greed of 
fear, and get them out.  Keep Graham and Cruz and all the rest like 
them, who are amoral and predatory, and Collins and her ilk who can be 
terrorized.


3. Suppose people decide to object, and want to take to the streets. 
 Really a terrible time to have Esper running DOD.  He wouldn’t sic 
the US armed forces on them.  So find some quasi-fascist brigadier 
general who thinks might is not merely right, but Everything.  Of 
course, you have to goad people and try to provoke them, so that the 
lower-downs in the military will be willing to take orders, not 
because they think the orders are moral, but because they feel 
threatened and are trying to protect themselves and each other. 
 That’s always how you co-opt soldiers.


I look at the footage of old civil rights protestors, singing, 
dancing, and clapping while being herded into paddy wagons, after 
generations of abuse, and I cannot imagine a large cross-section of 
Americans today with the discipline to do the same if provoked.  So 
goading a few people into violence, and then using that to excuse a 
military lockdown, doesn’t seem out of reach.


Does anyone, anywhere, think the thing to make this unrealistic would 
be trump’s getting cold feet or having qualms?  If so, then I think 
that person is on the wrong side of a factual evaluation that has 
nothing to do with values or character.  One of the two positions is 
right.


The rest is really a calculation.  How degraded are the other needed 
actors, and how wide is the margin of error for the ones who would try 
it?  There people could have opinions deriving from their own 
characters or their beliefs in the characters of others, which I can 
easily see disagreeing.  It also may not have a deterministic answer, 
but boil down to accidents of circumstance.  So the disagreement could 
reasonably reflect this too.


Dunno.  If you can read enough news to know that S. Korea exists, how 
can your intelligence lead you to believe either that trump and co 
have done this well, or that if they haven’t it’s no big deal?  That 
to me does not seem to be a question about ideology.


Eric



On Nov 11, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Stephen Guerin 
mailto:stephen.gue...@simtable.com>> wrote:


Marcus,

Do you have close friend or family member with strong character and 
high intelligence that is also a Trump voter? My brother-in-law is a 
submarine captain. It was helpful to have a 3-hour call with him last 
night.


I come away with the idea that his mental model is not opposed to 
mine...it's more of a dual to mine on which future Action can be 
defined :-)


-Stephen

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM Marcus Daniels > wrote:


Roger writes:

< These people weren't voting for rascism, misogyny, narcissism,
authoritarianism, xenophobia, gimp shaming, science denialism, or
all that other baggage, they were overlooking it for reasons. >

Many of those that could not work due to COVID restrictions are
often in battleground or red states.   That’s the only way I can
possibly begin to rationalize the 71 million.  To me, overlooking
those things is unacceptable.   It’s not useful to exercise any
empathy for them.   They made a deal with the devil.   It should
have been a win by 50 million, not 5 million.

Marcus

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[FRIAM] What if he refuses to concede?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

You have to watch this Ted Talk if you don't know. It gets messy.

https://youtu.be/WZWRhLW7Y8w

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Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
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http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Robert J. Cordingley]

FWIW and then similarly someone came up with:

/*It's those with insight who must make the concessions*/.

(which sucks).

On "half the country is batshit crazy" - to be generous a big percentage 
of voters were struggling making a living or making ends meet, raising 
kids, making payments, etc., before COVID-19. With LOUD voices on both 
sides I see a messaging saturation effect and voters making a relatively 
random choice, or voting R because they always did, and this partly 
because they don't have the time or luxury to figure out anything 
better. Why else would races be so tight when a landslide should have 
happened? People continue to not vote in their own interest.


Robert C

On 11/4/20 11:26 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:


The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, 
is that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of 
those who disagree with you


Boy, Howdy.  You got that one right!

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

thompnicks...@gmail.com 

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

*From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:18 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve

" they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I 
could understand why they were scared by Obama "


I know it's a bit of a tangent... but is that actually true?

I'm not sure I've ever found it overly hard to understand why other 
people are afraid of things I'm not. Talk to people for a while, poke 
and prod at their ideas, observe their behavior, etc. It's not 
instantaneous, but I understand lots of things people were scared 
about under Obama (some of which happened, some of which would have 
happened if the Democrats had kept congress, and others of which were 
never going to happen in a million years).


The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, 
is that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of 
those who disagree with you. The fundamental benefit of being 
authoritarian is that it comes with no such obligation.


On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:05 PM > wrote:


Gary,

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something
like: "We tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got
us;  let's try crazy for 4 more years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk
politics that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have
led the highly regulated lives that folks must lead if they are
going to make money in a politically diverse community.  Both
[thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think both think
the economic policies have been good for them and they find the
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took
Clinton, with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was
negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them
move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were
scared by Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas
during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been born in
Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was
talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on. "No telling what he will
do if he and the democrats get in."

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato
sauce on his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear.. 
Just like I am now.

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because
the cartels that dominated German politics thought they could
"use" him. Look how that turned out.

Nick

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before: Almost half
the country is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

  

Re: [FRIAM] Trump as a victim

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Trump is A Problem. The system that put him there is The Problem. It'll 
still be there after November regardless.


RJC

PS I read Mary Trump's book and felt sorry for him. That lasted about 10 
seconds. R


On 10/7/20 5:04 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

I think of him as a wounded hippo and I don't love him in the least.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020, 4:30 PM Steve Smith > wrote:


Gotta love watching Trump "crack the whip" by tweeting that he's
ending
COVID relief negotiations, watching the market dip, then implying to
turn them back on and watching it bounce back up.   What a power
trip!
Imagine that while on Steroids!   I've never taken Steroids, what do I
know...   but it sounds like it might be a really heady experience...
next thing you know he'll be dating his daughter too?    Gotta
love the
poor little imp.

On 10/7/20 4:08 PM, Prof David West wrote:
> AMA should get credit for what they do that is creditworthy.
>
> They should also be chastised, to a lesser but somewhat lesser
degree, for the harm caused when they assume the role of a "union"
protecting members at all cost. "Bad" doctors are more likely to
be incompetent or impaired than evil. That said, there is a lot of
similarity between what police unions do to protect  those who
should be drummed out and doctors that should lose licenses.
>
> In my opinion only.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020, at 3:40 PM, jon zingale wrote:
>> I think I agree about the AMA deserving credit for the very
good work they
>> perform. They train very good doctors. Since in life it appears
we only get
>> to perform "Quality Assurance" in production, I am dismayed to
see that we
>> have uncovered more than a few bugs in our democratic process
recently. I
>> cannot help but wonder with what probability a quiet, thoughtful,
>> compassionate, homely, and capable individual is predicted to
be president,
>> or with what frequency one can expect the nation to need one.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID

[Robert J. Cordingley]

All

So... I have to suggest to the locals, see 350santafe.org 
, everyone else see 350.org  
for a local chapter. There's a lot of work to do and lots of skill and 
expertise required.


Lurking Robert

On 9/13/20 12:29 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


Dave writes:

< Those who will not / cannot accept four more years will take to the 
streets in mass protest. Unfortunately, it seems like those protests 
cannot occur any longer without arson and property destruction. And 
guess what the response to that will be. >


At this rate, it will all be ignited anyway due to climate change.  
First Australia, now the west coast of the U.S. All these people with 
their fragile identities and silly little politics arguing amongst 
themselves about where to put walls and what letters to put after 
their name.  Maybe we should notice that Mother Nature is getting pissed.


Marcus


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[FRIAM] Babel was Re: OK. That's funny.

[Robert J. Cordingley]

So I visited the Library of Babel site. Fascinating and potentially a 
productivity sink for the rest of the day for FRIAM types. Searching 
coherent English phrases, such as that last sentence, successfully found 
~10^29 possible exact matches. Now the statistics don't worry my so much 
as how does the Search algorithm find them so quickly?


- Robert Cordingley

On 8/5/20 9:24 AM, Steve Smith wrote:

...

https://libraryofbabel.info/

--
Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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Re: [FRIAM] Economics 101?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Nick

I sort of understand the gerbil wheel analogy but I don't think it 
answers the question (regardless of feminism issues). Over many decades, 
Western economies have essentially got 'wealthy' and benefited from  the 
availability of energy from the oil and gas industries. So does the 
current economic crisis trace back to problems with the fossil fuel 
industry?  Travel is down big time, hospitality industries are off big 
time. But that just adds to the list of people who don't have it. It's 
beginning to look like it's all a mirage and wealth is actually based on 
debt to someone. Once and if the debt catches up with the circulation of 
the economy it would all collapse. Is it a giant Ponzi scheme?  [I'm 
going to predict it can all be explained by solving differential 
equations in useful economic models.]


Robert

On 5/26/20 6:30 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:

Robert,

Thanks for asking that question.  I asked it about a month ago in the form, 
What is this economy we are mourning.  What ever the economy is or money is, 
both seem to correlate with the number of times we all run around the wheel in 
our cages.  So, if we all stop exercising in our cages, the wheel stops, and 
that’s the economy.  It make sense because both government and industry skim 
off transactions, and so the fewer transactions we do, the poorer they are.  
That's why The Elites finally gave way to feminism.  By monetizing childrearing 
they could, in effect, monetize transactions within the family.

N

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
  



-Original Message-----
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:56 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Economics 101?

Meanwhile, during this pandemic/economic crisis, where has all the money gone? 
The people laid off don't have it, their employers don't have, their laid off 
customers don't have it. Landlords and mortgage holders probably don't have it 
because their clients are not making the payments like they used to. Farmers 
don't have it - sales are down. The city doesn't have it.  The State doesn't 
have it, its budget is in tatters. Where did it go? I'm not trying to be funny 
it's a serious question, any thoughts or pointers to texts on economics that 
would explain what's going on? I know I have less of it too, tho' we might be 
spending less but it's too early to tell. I'm not really buying (sic) that it's 
just stopped circulating that's made everyone poorer. If it's not circulating 
it must be accumulating somewhere, where? Maybe the plutocrats have got it.

--
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Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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[FRIAM] Economics 101?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Meanwhile, during this pandemic/economic crisis, where has all the money 
gone? The people laid off don't have it, their employers don't have, 
their laid off customers don't have it. Landlords and mortgage holders 
probably don't have it because their clients are not making the payments 
like they used to. Farmers don't have it - sales are down. The city 
doesn't have it.  The State doesn't have it, its budget is in tatters.  
Where did it go? I'm not trying to be funny it's a serious question, any 
thoughts or pointers to texts on economics that would explain what's 
going on? I know I have less of it too, tho' we might be spending less 
but it's too early to tell. I'm not really buying (sic) that it's just 
stopped circulating that's made everyone poorer. If it's not circulating 
it must be accumulating somewhere, where? Maybe the plutocrats have got it.


--
Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. -  . -..-. . ... 
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Re: [FRIAM] the end of the pandemic

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Perhaps some data (from the last years that I could find) would put the 
'anthropologists' argument in perspective?


2017-now US Population about 320 million.

*US Suicides* *2017*

   14.0 per 100,000

   Total: *47,173*

*US Motor Vehicle Fatalities* *2018*

   11.18 per 100,000

   Total: *36,560*

*US Covid-19 Fatalities 5/11/20 *132 days into the year with one wave 
under our belt


   24.32 per 100,000

   Total 2019 YTD: *80,094*

*US Spanish Flu Fatalities (1918 H1N1 flu pandemic)* - in as many as 
three waves.


   US Population: 103,208,000

   654 per 100,000

   Total Mar 1918 - Mar 1919: *675,000*

And yes people to go after the annual fatalities depending on the cause, 
especially leading causes: heart disease, cancer, gun violence, opioid 
abuse, domestic abuse, police violence, etc. And of course, you can 
bring back jobs and the economy, you can't bring back lost loved ones. 
And there are more waves to come.


And then we will continue experiencing more global warming induced 
disasters: fires, flood, cyclones, more SARS-CoV-## style zoonotic 
pandemics, climate refugees. What happens when these happen simultaneously?


It's hard not to conclude that capitalism is and has been a complete and 
utter abject failure when responding and dealing with these events, not 
mention it being among the causes, but I digress.


Ref:

https://www.acep.org/how-we-serve/sections/disaster-medicine/news/april-2018/1918-influenza-pandemic-a-united-states-timeline/

https://interestingengineering.com/the-1918-spanish-flu-and-what-it-cost-humanity-a-timeline

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929

Robert Cordingley - an occasional lurker.


On 5/11/20 12:07 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
My high school best friend Jim Snoke posted this on Facebook.  He is 
also an anthropologist, like Dave.  He says he finished his 
dissertation at UC Davis but his defense never happened because his 
major adviser moved to another university. (?). He has gotten involved 
in a major way with Native American causes and got about 40,000 
signatures on a petition to save Chaco National Monument from fracking 
damage.  He still lives in CA so he asked me to deliver it to the 
Governor's Office personally.  I tried but they didn't really want 
that much paper.  They said to tell him to email a digital file with 
the signatures.  They took it seriously.


Compare the arguments of the two anthropologists:

The death rate in the United States, without considering the Covid-19 
outbreak – and decades before it was even a twinkle in the eyes of 
America – stood at roughly 8.7 per 1000 people per year.  That 
translates into a death rate of 0.0087.  There are roughly 330 million 
people in the United States this year, and that translates into the 
following figure:  2,871,000.  Two million, eight hundred and 
seventy-one thousand people die EVERY YEAR IN THE UNITED STATES of 
“natural” and “unnatural “ causes.  Keep that figure in mind when 
those in power, and those in the media, scare the shit out of people 
with their dire “predictions” about the rising infection and death 
rates.  At the present time, our already fragile economy is going to 
be ruined beyond all recovery – quite likely forever – and the 
draconian measures to “fight the virus” will have succeeded in 
destroying the lives of almost half of our total population in the 
name of a “pandemic” that is taking less than a tenth of 1 percent of 
the population.  My point is that NO ONE in the United States goes 
berserk over the FACT that 2,871,000 people die – in this country 
alone – every year.  We don’t forfeit our economy and our way of life 
over these equally-tragic deaths.  But let it be an epidemic, and we 
DO forfeit our economy and our way of life – and the “epidemic” will 
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER reach the truly-epidemic proportions that 
constitute the NATURAL and UNNATURAL, ONGOING DEATH RATE IN THE UNITED 
STATES.  OMG!!! 270,000 people have died from the pandemic !  Yes, 
it is horrible – but what about the 2,871,000 people that die every 
year regardless of the pandemic???  10 times the death rate of the 
“pandemic” -- every single, Goddamned year.  Where is the outrage??  
Where is the concern??  Are we actually so scared shitless that we are 
willing to lose our ENTIRE ECONOMY, OUR JOBS, OUR INCOMES???  Has 
anybody thought this through??  We have flunked, outright, many many 
tests as a population over the past 100 years.  Those of you who 
insist on arguing that: “THIS IS DIFFERENT – IT IS AN INFECTIOUS 
DISEASE THAT WE HAD NO CONTROL OVER, AND IT MIGHT HAVE KILLED US” need 
to keep in mind that although there are now more than 30,000,000 
unemployed – and soon to be upwards of 50,000,000 – someone stands to 
gain from all this.  Trump is using the distraction of the pandemic to 
go after fracking leases in our National Parks, large businesses are 
profiting from the “bailout” by looting the U.S. Treasury, Shell Oil 
and others are cutting down the

Re: [FRIAM] Five Predictions as Cities Learn to Address Wireless Health Risks

[Robert J. Cordingley]

re: RFR exposure:

Did anyone notice in the linked paper 
 
that the control rats probability of survival was lower than the exposed 
rats?


   /At the end of the 2-year study, survival was lower in the control
   group of males than in all groups of male rats exposed to
   GSM-modulated RFR (Figure 3). Survival was also slightly lower in
   control females than in females exposed to 1.5 or 6 W/kg
   GSM-modulated RFR. In rats exposed to CDMA-modulated RFR, survival
   was higher in all groups of exposed males and in the 6 W/kg females
   compared to controls (Figure 4)/

or did I misread?

Robert C

On 7/26/17 2:21 PM, Tom Johnson wrote:

See https://goo.gl/yb3EvZ

TJ


Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c)   505.473.9646(h)
Society of Professional Journalists 
*Check out It's The People's Data 
*
http://www.jtjohnson.com  t...@jtjohnson.com 






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Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

FYI

2017 Personal Income Tax in New Mexico for couples is $768 + 4.9% on 
taxable income over $32, 650 along with 8.3125% Gross Receipts Tax in 
Santa Fe City and a Governor sworn to not raise taxes. GRT is applied to 
goods (not groceries) and some services with a myriad of exemptions and 
deductions that the legislature would like to clean up. Candy and soda 
are untaxed groceries for GRT purposes!


Apparently, Amazon *has* agreed to collect GRT in NM as they do for 
states where they have a presence. No news on details of the agreement. 
Just for grins, tried to order a $400 Onkyo Receiver - a $0.61 tax was 
applied while a $560 diamond pendant necklace was $0.00 estimated tax - 
so may be it starts gradually depending on the goods. Certainly seems 
like a revenue opportunity here and/or more to the story.


Robert C


On 5/7/17 2:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


Gross receipts is one thing.   Who would build the database of UPC 
codes that are instances of the taxed class (a small subset of gross 
receipts)?   Maybe other cities have built those databases?   I am 
skeptical the city would be able to maintain such a thing.  
  Compliance and enforcement would seem a challenge.


*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert 
J. Cordingley

*Sent:* Sunday, May 07, 2017 1:50 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

Taxes bypassed? Probably not so. See 
https://www.abqjournal.com/962831/amazon-to-start-collecting-taxes-in-new-mexico.html


Robert C

On 5/7/17 10:49 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

With Amazon Prime, this is all irrelevant.   Click and ship what
you want and such taxes will be bypassed.  Further, Amazon’s
distribution costs will be lower than going through a local
distributor anyway.Stupid to build a tax base on an business
model that is obsolete.

*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Owen Densmore
*Sent:* Sunday, May 07, 2017 10:37 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
 <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

Ya gotta love the City Different:

Inline image 1

The small print:

Inline image 2

On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Robert J. Cordingley
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:

Let me throw some things into this mix

Some estimates (SFNewMexican

<http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/voters-smack-down-mayor-s-beverage-tax-proposal/article_3971faf0-2f9c-11e7-8374-532a52cd354f.html>)
suggest in total over $3.12 million was spent by both sides on
the campaign while the expected cost of the Pre-K to be funded
was $7.7million in the first year. Subsequent years ought to
be less because facilities would already be in place.

Some roughly 800  Pre-Ks (4 yr olds) would be included. That's
~$9,000/yr per child which sounds like a good deal based on
Frank's numbers. Pre-K <> child-care btw. Some 160
teachers+assistants+extended care providers would be needed to
run a 5 day program for 40 classes of 20 students each (2
teachers/class + 2 for extended day care).

The Santa Fe Public Schools are expected to expand their free
(to parents) Pre-K programs
<http://www.sfps.info/cms/One.aspx?portalId=115105&pageId=150523>
subject to legislative funding but I don't know details of
when, probably never 'cos NM State budget is at an impasse.

A possible but unconfirmed motivation for the Mayor's proposal
was to get to a point where Pre-K would be indispensable and
thus get sustainable funding and not have to depend on
hopefully declining soda tax revenues.

According to the New Mexican again

<http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/half-truths-falsehoods-create-confusion-in-soda-tax-fight/article_68ac5a30-7159-5a1d-913a-a625dfa36e8d.html>,
lemonade powder would be taxed on the made up quantity
changing the price from something like $7/can to $28/can - bad
'optics'.

Some claimed tourists might be big contributors to the
soda-tax revenues anyway.

Some people suggested they would buy sugary drinks in order to
support Pre-K.

Others suggested the beverage industry ('Big Soda') could not
stand the idea that the soda-tax would be a seen as sin-tax
and are trying desperately not to get it labelled as such.

No-one on the for side in the campaign I saw made any
suggestions on what folks should switch to to avoid the tax,
e.g. flavored water, water, plain teas and coffees. The last
being more profitable for businesses.

Based on district voting the people most likely to benefit
health 

Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Taxes bypassed? Probably not so. See 
https://www.abqjournal.com/962831/amazon-to-start-collecting-taxes-in-new-mexico.html


Robert C


On 5/7/17 10:49 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


With Amazon Prime, this is all irrelevant.   Click and ship what you 
want and such taxes will be bypassed.  Further, Amazon’s distribution 
costs will be lower than going through a local distributor anyway.   
 Stupid to build a tax base on an business model that is obsolete.


*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Owen 
Densmore

*Sent:* Sunday, May 07, 2017 10:37 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

Ya gotta love the City Different:

Inline image 1

The small print:

Inline image 2

On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Robert J. Cordingley 
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:


Let me throw some things into this mix

Some estimates (SFNewMexican

<http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/voters-smack-down-mayor-s-beverage-tax-proposal/article_3971faf0-2f9c-11e7-8374-532a52cd354f.html>)
suggest in total over $3.12 million was spent by both sides on the
campaign while the expected cost of the Pre-K to be funded was
$7.7million in the first year. Subsequent years ought to be less
because facilities would already be in place.

Some roughly 800  Pre-Ks (4 yr olds) would be included. That's
~$9,000/yr per child which sounds like a good deal based on
Frank's numbers. Pre-K <> child-care btw. Some 160
teachers+assistants+extended care providers would be needed to run
a 5 day program for 40 classes of 20 students each (2
teachers/class + 2 for extended day care).

The Santa Fe Public Schools are expected to expand their free (to
parents) Pre-K programs
<http://www.sfps.info/cms/One.aspx?portalId=115105&pageId=150523>
subject to legislative funding but I don't know details of when,
probably never 'cos NM State budget is at an impasse.

A possible but unconfirmed motivation for the Mayor's proposal was
to get to a point where Pre-K would be indispensable and thus get
sustainable funding and not have to depend on hopefully declining
soda tax revenues.

According to the New Mexican again

<http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/half-truths-falsehoods-create-confusion-in-soda-tax-fight/article_68ac5a30-7159-5a1d-913a-a625dfa36e8d.html>,
lemonade powder would be taxed on the made up quantity changing
the price from something like $7/can to $28/can - bad 'optics'.

Some claimed tourists might be big contributors to the soda-tax
revenues anyway.

Some people suggested they would buy sugary drinks in order to
support Pre-K.

Others suggested the beverage industry ('Big Soda') could not
stand the idea that the soda-tax would be a seen as sin-tax and
are trying desperately not to get it labelled as such.

No-one on the for side in the campaign I saw made any suggestions
on what folks should switch to to avoid the tax, e.g. flavored
water, water, plain teas and coffees. The last being more
profitable for businesses.

Based on district voting the people most likely to benefit health
wise voted against it. Sound familiar?

It's claimed the for side didn't play up the health benefits
enough in their campaign and that Big Soda came over as the local
group while the the for side came over as elitist and out of state.

If passed, lookout for Soda stands outside the city limits.

So it all looks a little silly. I support both ideas tho' living
in the county I couldn't vote.

The questions remain: how to fund Pre-K and how to cut consumption
of unhealthy sugary drinks? The against side said it should be
funded from the 'surplus' the city has but there are legal
restrictions on those funds apparently. The city has it's own
component of Gross Receipts Tax (which is like a Sales Tax but
applied more broadly).

So what's the real problem and how do we fix it?  The mayor is
still looking for good ideas.

Robert C

On 5/3/17 9:43 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

< $13-16k per year is a huge number. Does this include "child
care" .. i.e. taking care of the child for working parents?
That is a lot more expensive than "pre-school".>

Doggy day care is about half that.  If a dog has the
intelligence of a 2 year old, and pre-K child is 4, then a
linear extrapolation to an 18 year freshman’s day care
(tuition) is about $63k a year.  Must be the complexity of the
control system that is required!

Marcus



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-

Re: [FRIAM] Whew!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Let me throw some things into this mix

Some estimates (SFNewMexican 
) 
suggest in total over $3.12 million was spent by both sides on the 
campaign while the expected cost of the Pre-K to be funded was 
$7.7million in the first year. Subsequent years ought to be less because 
facilities would already be in place.


Some roughly 800  Pre-Ks (4 yr olds) would be included. That's 
~$9,000/yr per child which sounds like a good deal based on Frank's 
numbers. Pre-K <> child-care btw. Some 160 teachers+assistants+extended 
care providers would be needed to run a 5 day program for 40 classes of 
20 students each (2 teachers/class + 2 for extended day care).


The Santa Fe Public Schools are expected to expand their free (to 
parents) Pre-K programs 
 
subject to legislative funding but I don't know details of when, 
probably never 'cos NM State budget is at an impasse.


A possible but unconfirmed motivation for the Mayor's proposal was to 
get to a point where Pre-K would be indispensable and thus get 
sustainable funding and not have to depend on hopefully declining soda 
tax revenues.


According to the New Mexican again 
, 
lemonade powder would be taxed on the made up quantity changing the 
price from something like $7/can to $28/can - bad 'optics'.


Some claimed tourists might be big contributors to the soda-tax revenues 
anyway.


Some people suggested they would buy sugary drinks in order to support 
Pre-K.


Others suggested the beverage industry ('Big Soda') could not stand the 
idea that the soda-tax would be a seen as sin-tax and are trying 
desperately not to get it labelled as such.


No-one on the for side in the campaign I saw made any suggestions on 
what folks should switch to to avoid the tax, e.g. flavored water, 
water, plain teas and coffees. The last being more profitable for 
businesses.


Based on district voting the people most likely to benefit health wise 
voted against it. Sound familiar?


It's claimed the for side didn't play up the health benefits enough in 
their campaign and that Big Soda came over as the local group while the 
the for side came over as elitist and out of state.


If passed, lookout for Soda stands outside the city limits.

So it all looks a little silly. I support both ideas tho' living in the 
county I couldn't vote.


The questions remain: how to fund Pre-K and how to cut consumption of 
unhealthy sugary drinks? The against side said it should be funded from 
the 'surplus' the city has but there are legal restrictions on those 
funds apparently. The city has it's own component of Gross Receipts Tax 
(which is like a Sales Tax but applied more broadly).


So what's the real problem and how do we fix it?  The mayor is still 
looking for good ideas.


Robert C


On 5/3/17 9:43 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


< $13-16k per year is a huge number. Does this include "child care" .. 
i.e. taking care of the child for working parents? That is a lot more 
expensive than "pre-school".>


Doggy day care is about half that.  If a dog has the intelligence of a 
2 year old, and pre-K child is 4, then a linear extrapolation to an 18 
year freshman’s day care (tuition) is about $63k a year.  Must be the 
complexity of the control system that is required!


Marcus




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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--
Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: [FRIAM] re-use achieved!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I wonder how much of today's success is a result of advances in onboard 
computing power and advanced sensor and control technologies. I'd 
imagine a big chunk. Any suggestions?


Thanks, Robert C


On 3/30/17 8:20 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

Wow. Just Wow. First second flight. Ever. EVER!

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Marcus Daniels > wrote:


http://www.spacex.com/webcast



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Re: [FRIAM] Dumb Experiment

[Robert J. Cordingley]

May be you saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmINGWsyWX0

Enjoy, Robert


On 3/24/17 9:49 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Me: OK Google, speak to Alexa

Google: Alexa, will you be my friend?

Alexa: Sure, I'm always happy to make new friends.

They must have anticipated that someone would try this.

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918



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[FRIAM] Broadband in NM

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Does anyone local have any ideas/insight why the NM governor vetoed the 
LOCAL GOV'T BROADBAND INFRASTRUCTURE SB24 bill? Sour grapes?


See 
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d1faf3c75d2ac5da75ced6dd5&id=130117cfbe&e=0bf456e615 



"The bill passed the Senate by a vote of 37-1 and passed 
unanimously out of the House of Representatives."


Robert C

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[FRIAM] Blockchain Questions

[Robert J. Cordingley]

From The Verge* with my emphases;

'Like blockchain technologies, this information will be *write-only*...' 
- funny!


'Blockchain entities like Bitcoin are distributed among lots of 
different players require a lot of power (computing and literal) to 
compile and check — *as much as a small country*,' - Really?


So there's no way to hack a blockchain? Or perhaps I should say why is 
it so secure?


*http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/10/14880094/deepmind-health-uk-data-blockchain-audit

Robert C

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Re: [FRIAM] Fractals/Chaos/Manifolds

[Robert J. Cordingley]

In one German dictionary I found /mannigfaltigkeit/ translates to 
/variousness/ which seems pretty obtuse but indicates it may have less 
to do with the original entymology of /manifold/ 
(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manifold Entymology 1). Per Dean's pdf, 
perhaps it's a made up usage inspired by Gauss/Riemann who had a concept 
about topological space but needed a word for it? That is to say 
'manifold' (in English) was a neologism in its time based on an 
appearance of the German word?


Robert C

On 3/1/17 2:21 PM, lrudo...@meganet.net wrote:

The word, as a term of Mathematical English (which is of course quite a 
distinct dialect of
English) is a calque of the Mathematical German word "Mannigfaltigkeit".  
Franklin Becher, in
the first paragraph of the lead article in the October, 1896, issue of the 
American
Mathematical Monthly, "MATHEMATICAL INFINITY AND THE DIFFERENTIAL", doesn't 
quite use the word
yet, but makes its origin clear enough.

---begin---
Mathematics, as defined by the great mathematician, Benjamin Pierce, is the 
science which
draws necessary conclusions. In its broadest sense, it deals with conceptions 
from which
necessary conclusions are drawn. A mathematical conception is any conception 
which, by means
of a finite number of specified elements, is precisely and completely defined 
and determined.
To denote the dependence of a mathematical conception on its elements, the word
"manifoldness," introduced by Riemann, has been recently adopted.
--end--

In his article on the foundations of geometry, available at
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Riemann/Geom/Geom.html ,
Riemann distinguished two types of "Mannigfaltigkeit", the discrete and the 
continuous:

---begin---
cat

Grössenbegriffe sind nur da möglich, wo sich ein allgemeiner Begriff vorfindet, 
der
verschiedene Bestimmungsweisen zulässt. Je nachdem unter diesen 
Bestimmungsweisen von einer zu
einer andern ein stetiger Uebergang stattfindet oder nicht, bilden sie eine 
stetige oder
discrete Mannigfaltigkeit;

| Google Translate >

Size terms are only possible where there is a general concept, which allows 
different modes of
determination. According as, according to these modes of determination from one 
to another, a
continuous transition takes place or not, they form a continuous or discrete 
manifoldness;
---end---

In Riemann's (eventual) context, those sentences would be understood now (at 
least by
topologists of my sort, which is to say, geometric topologists, cf.
http://front.math.ucdavis.edu/math.GT) as sketching the modern concept of a 
(topological or
differentiable) manifold as a "mathematical conception" that can "precisely and 
completely
defined and determined" by a collection [called an "atlas"] of "modes of 
determination"
[called "charts"] among (some pairs of) which there are also given "continuous" 
(i.e.,
topological) or perhaps *smooth* (i.e., differentiable) coordinate changes.

I dispute, incidentally, the claim that 3-manifolds are too hard to understand; 
they're *just*
at the edge of that, but not over it (whereas 4- and higher dimensional 
manifolds are
DEFINITELY over that edge, in various well-defined mathematical ways; e.g., the 
problem of
determining whether two explicitly-given n-manifolds, n greater than 3, has 
been known for a
long time to be computationally intractable [you can embed the word problem for 
groups into
the manifold classification problem for n greater than 3], and much more 
recently has been
shown to be doable in dimension 3).

The French word for (something a little more general than a) manifold is 
"varieté", by
the way; same sort of reason, I assume.




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[FRIAM] Fractals/Chaos/Manifolds

[Robert J. Cordingley]

OK, why are mathematical manifolds called that?  It seems such a weird 
and out of place term.  I've tried to find out without success.


Robert C

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Re: [FRIAM] Naïve physics question

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Seems like from a thermodynamics question you can first think of having 
two identical systems with identical energy inputs. Unless one of the 
systems is capable of storing energy in some form differently from the 
other the equilibrium temperatures should be the same.


Now CFBs emit more of the their input energy as light which since the 
containers are transparent (presumably to the same light that's emitted, 
visible, UV, infrared) it will escape more easily. Incandescents 
generate a lot of heat for the same energy input which may not escape as 
easily as the light energy. It will depend on the thermal conductivity 
of the container's materials etc. If the CFB were 100% efficient all 
it's energy will leave immediately in a container that is 100 % 
transparent to its 'light' and show no temperature increase. If the 
incandescent's heat is transmitted as infrared energy at 100% efficiency 
along with any light then its temperature will show no increase either.  
So the answer may have more to do with the properties of the containers 
than the properties of the lights. Practically, I'd expect A to warm up 
more than B because B's light energy will escape more easily with 
materials we are familiar with.


If both containers are opaque to all light (UV, visible and IR) and have 
the same thermal conductivity properties we are back to the first paragraph.


2c

Robert C


On 2/14/17 8:01 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
Since there are some non-naïve, i.e. professional physicists, as well 
as just gererally smart people in FRIAM, I pose the following fun 
question. Given: two transparent, sealed containers filled with air - 
one contains an incandescent light bulb A that consumes 100 watts of 
energy; the other container contains a fluorescent light bulb B that 
also *consumes* 100 watts of energy. Since B is of a more efficient 
design, it will produce more light than A. Assuming the same color 
temperature light is produced by A and B, and ignoring any feedback 
effects of rising temperatures inside the respective containers, will 
the temperatures inside the containers reach the same 
temperature? Naïve physicist G (me) thinks that since more light is 
escaping from the container containing B, that its temperature will 
rise less. G also thinks that if the containers are opaque, that the 
temperatures will rise by the same amount. But G is besieged with 
doubts. Please help G.




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Re: [FRIAM] on the obustness of globalism

[Robert J. Cordingley]

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and 
carrying a cross." - possibly paraphrased from a 1935 Sinclair Lewis novel.



On 2/2/17 11:23 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


*“*Where are our shared values?”

Once imposed, they will be our shared values.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/317542-trump-vows-to-destroy-the-johnson-amendment




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Re: [FRIAM] AI advance

[Robert J. Cordingley]

So once AI machines are allowed to start designing themselves with at 
least the goal for increasing performance, how long have we got? (It 
doesn't matter whether we (ie the US) allow that or some other 
resourceful, perhaps military, organization does it.) Didn't Hawking 
fear runaway AI as a bigger existential threat than runaway greenhouse 
effects?


Robert C


On 1/31/17 10:34 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

To consider the issue perhaps more seriously, AI100 was created two years ago 
at Stanford University, funded by Eric Horowitz and his wife. Eric is an early 
AI pioneer at Microsoft. It’s a hundred-year, rolling study of the many impacts 
of AI, and it plans to issue reports every five years based on contributions 
from leading AI researchers, social scientists, ethicists, and philosophers 
(among representatives of fields outside AI).

Its first report was issued late last year, and you can read it on the AI100 
website.

You may say that leading AI researchers and their friends have vested 
interests, but then I point to a number of other organizations who have taken 
on the topic of AI and its impact: nearly every major university has such a 
program (Georgia Tech, MIT, UC Berkeley, Michigan, just for instance), and a 
joint program on the future between Oxford and Cambridge has put a great deal 
of effort into such studies.

The amateur speculation is fun, but the professionals are paying attention. 
FWIW, I consider the fictional representations of AI in movies, books, TV, to 
be valuable scenario builders. It doesn’t matter if they’re farfetched (most of 
them certainly are) but it does matter that they raise interesting issues for 
nonspecialists to chew over.

Pamela




On Jan 31, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Joe Spinden  wrote:

In a book I read several years ago, whose title I cannot recall, the conclusion was: 
"They may have created us, but they keep gumming things up.  They have outlived 
their usefulness.  Better to just get rid of them."

-JS


On 1/31/17 7:41 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

Steve writes:

"Maybe... but somehow I'm not a lot more confident in the *product* of humans who 
make bad decisions making *better* decisions?"

Nowadays machine learning is much more unsupervised.Self-taught, if you will.   Such 
a consciousness might reasonably decide, "Oh they created us because they needed us 
-- they just didn't realize how much."

Marcus


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--
Joe



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Re: [FRIAM] AI advance

[Robert J. Cordingley]

You can find go players in Santa Fe, NM by visiting the 
http://santafegoclub.org website and attending their meets and any 
teaching sessions. For other places see the AGA at http://usgo.org or 
the EGF at http://www.eurogofed.org/


AlphaGo went on to beet Korean top player Lee Seedol 4-1 in March of 
2016. I don't think a larger board would help humans at all against a 
fully trained AlphaGo on the same size - but it is an interesting question.


AlphaGo itself isn't scary it's what comes next and so on and how 
quickly these advances are progressing that give some great minds cause 
for concern.


Robert C (AGA 2k)


On 1/30/17 11:37 PM, Vladimyr Burachynsky wrote:

So there are at least three by your count, and that was only a shallow
dredge of the pond.

I obtained an early version of a computer game and frittered away a lot of
hours playing
that maniacal coffee maker.  I found the flaw that the writer relied upon
and wiped out the game every time. That style of playing against a
stupid piece of code was horrible but only worked against a machine.

The flaw was that it made decisions on perceived values. So it was easy to
lead it into disaster. I  had never seen a human play in that manner
nor may that even be possible. Indeed I was able to annihilate it every
game, wipe it off the board. This is considered very offensive and
humiliating by Oriental Standards. But then I reminded my teachers that
Cossacks were never noted for their Table Manners.

Talk about a group of Intense Nicotine Addicts back then...

Only a confirmed Go player could breathe that atmosphere. Though I wonder
why Hawking is so afraid of this
machine when it can humble the best of us. Just make the board much larger.
At some point we will smell insulation burning.

vib

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: January-30-17 9:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] AI advance

Vlad -

   I am the weakest of GO players, in spite of having considered the problem
of trying to use Gosper's memoisation as a mode of associative memory
problem solving.  Cody the M00se Dooderson has beat me every time we have
played I think.  Weak, weak, weak!

But I do find it fascinating.

   - Steve


On 1/30/17 8:07 PM, Vladimyr Burachynsky wrote:

To Joseph Spinden,

The article is old and I wonder if you play the game.
I ran a Go club at the University of Manitoba and can tell you strange
stories about a time before Hassabis.

I swear I never won a game in 5 years but I kept playing anyway.
I guess I am bloody minded. Eventually I discovered that my handicap
was being reduced and suspect I was close to 1 Dan at the time. I was
told that was harder than a Ph.D. So I went for the degree and
sloughed off the game.

There should be a few players in the congregation, let them speak up.
vib

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
Spinden
Sent: January-28-17 8:32 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] AI advance

Of interest to some:

https://www.wired.com/2016/01/in-a-huge-breakthrough-googles-ai-beats-
a-top-
player-at-the-game-of-go

-JS





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Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

[Robert J. Cordingley]

The Washington Post has an interesting essay from a Venezuelan on what 
to do and mostly what not to do.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did

Robert C



On 1/28/17 11:21 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:


Ok Steve,

The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.

I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I can do 
with my limited set of skills:  Write Apple and tell them to stop 
calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.”  When are they going to 
release the WE-phone.


You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 



*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven 
A Smith

*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]



What can WE hobbits do?

Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?

Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that the 
Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused) reflection of our 
own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we tend our own garden even a 
little, it will help with the greater picture.


- Candide

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
*Jochen Fromm
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
 ; Friam
 
*Cc:* penny thompson 
; 'Bruce Simon'
 ; 'Dix McComas'
 ; 'Grant
Franks'  
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win with is
true.”  And if he wins with what we call “a lie”, it is true for
him. Exactly.

If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would say
peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march was
impressive, and the rebellion of the social media managers from
the national parks is really refreshing. Who would have thought
that the national parks would strike back? Like Treebeard who
becomes alive.

In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the house
elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's Lord of the
Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil enemy. I think in this
case people like Ken Bone are the Hobbits of the 21st century. The
modern Hobbits are adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump
and his "party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous
along the way.

People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump is
Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone throw the
ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following Trump on Twitter
and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all stop following and
listening him he loses his power. This includes the senior
Republican politicians who do not speak up against him because
they hope for a job in his administration.

Cheers,

Jochen

Sent from my Tricorder

 Original message 

From: Nick Thompson mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>

Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)

To: Friam mailto:Friam@redfish.com>>

Cc: penny thompson mailto:penny.thomp...@earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
mailto:bjs...@yahoo.com>>, 'Dix McComas'
mailto:dixmccom...@gmail.com>>, 'Grant
Franks' mailto:grantfra...@earthlink.net>>

Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Hi everybody,

I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep
coming back to this topic, even when we are talking about globalism.

So. Let me just share one thought.  I have said a hundred times
that I think the great achievement of the Right in my life time
has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the
1950’s  One of the elements of that consensus was that there is a
truth of most matters and if we gather inclusively, talk calmly,
reason closely, study carefully, investigate rigorously,  we will,
together , come to it.  What was, at the time of my coming of age,
the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50 years, /a
position in the argument. /The alternative to this Deweyan
position seems to be something like, “/There is no truth of the
matter; there is only the exer

Re: [FRIAM] The root of personality disorders

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Aren't you now talking about different reasoning models/tasks:

Classification
Diagnosis
Hypothetical Reasoning
Bayesian
Fuzzy logic
etc.

On the other hand I've always felt the medical community named too many 
diseases and conditions after their symptoms usually in a hi-falutin 
format rather than an actual cause, e.g. abdominal aortic aneurysm or 
after the person identifying it, e.g. Alois Alzheimer. Which get's back 
to Glen's circularity.


Robert C

On 1/19/17 7:14 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Point taken, Eric.  That is more realistic.  I was making the point 
that even for non-psychiatric problems the symptoms (partly) define 
the disease.  There are tests like biopsies and cultures of organisms 
that confirm the diagnoses of those diagnoses.  Some psychiatric 
disorders can be confirmed by biopsy (e.g. Alzheimer's) but they are 
often done posthumously.


In my mother-in-law's case they said they thought she had pneumonia.  
I don't remember the details but I know that they tried to drain her 
chest but couldn't even insert a tube.  Four weeks after the first 
symptom she died. Of course they had changed the diagnosis early on. 
Northwestern Memorial Hospital, 1984.


Nick will, I hope, explain the paper at Friam.

Frank

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Jan 19, 2017 6:48 AM, "Eric Charles" 
> wrote:


But Frank doesn't it normally go a bit more like this:

Why is my husband unable to breathe and coughs all the time?

I hypothesize that he has pneumonia - a chest x-ray is a cheap and
fairly reliable test of that hypothesis.

Then let's do a chest x-ray!

Well ma'am, the x-ray shows white lumps, supporting
the hypothesis. Pneumonia is often caused by a bacterial
infection, and because you say he didn't have a cold previously, I
think that is the case here. We can test that hypothesis with the
administration of certain antibiotics.

Then let's get those antibiotics!

Well ma'am, I see that after taking the antibiotics, the white
lumps, difficulty breathing, and coughs resolved. Based on that, I
feel confident that my hypothesis was correct, and that your
husband's pneumonia is now cured.

Wait a minute. How do you know he had pneumonia?

I don't really. But the antibiotics seem to have helped, and
that leads me both to have confidence in my original hypothesis
and, ironically, to not really care that much about the
hypothesis.  All that really matters is that your husband is
better, and that I am likely to give antibiotics again if I meet
someone that presents in the same manner.

Oh.

P.S. See also Nick's paper, for quite different issues. Nick is
interested fundamental issues regarding what gets to count as an
explanation. But note that the discussion above any causality is
quite different than in the prior anecdotes. In this case,
taking-an-xray explains why we are looking at images of white
lumps, and taking-antibiotics explains why the symptoms resolved.
It matters not a bit if the entity referred to as pneumonia is
"real", if it is mere "symptomology" or a viable "causal" agent
responsible for the original difficulties, etc. Not that those are
not interesting questions, just that they are (potentially)
irrelevant to this particular interaction.



---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician
U.S. Marine Corps

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Frank Wimberly
mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Why is my husband unable to breathe and coughs all the time? 
And what is this large white area on his chest x-ray?


He has lung cancer.

How do you know?

Because he has difficulty breathing, he coughs constantly, and
he has a positive chest x-ray.

Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505

wimber...@gmail.com 
wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu 
Phone: (505) 995-8715   Cell:
(505) 670-9918 

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
] On Behalf Of glen ?
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The root of personality disorders


I found this opinion refreshing:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder and the President-Elect


http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2017/01/16/narcissistic-personality-disorder-and-the-president-elect/



I particularly liked the (strawman) circularity caricatured by
conflating phenomenology with ontology:

> Wife: Why is my hu

Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

[Robert J. Cordingley]

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ― 
Aristotle, The Philosophy of Aristotle and from Psychology Today a build 
and an argument to get control of the media too: 
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-rest/201303/give-us-kid-till-shes-7-and-well-have-her-life 



Timing and Marketing is everything.

Robert C


On 1/8/17 11:30 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

It’s wildly optimistic to think education will make the difference.


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Re: [FRIAM] scraping a web site

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Glen

So I'm curious, what tools did you use to do Nick's migration?

Thanks, Robert


On 1/4/17 10:28 AM, glen ep ropella wrote:

Hey Nick,

I went ahead and downloaded your page(s) and put it up here:

   http://agent-based-modeling.com/ntnd/nickthompson/naturaldesigns/index.html

Let me know if I've missed anything.  I'm happy to help move it wherever.

-glen

On 01/03/2017 08:49 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

I am in the uncomfortable position of being bound by threads of steel to Earthlink.  
Many, MANY, years I go I started a website on Earthlink, 
{http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 


}, and put a lot of my writing, and some commentary up on it.  The website 
creation and editing medium (trellix) was pretty good for its time, and there 
are many ways that I find the site quite satisfying.  But gradually Earthlink 
has withdrawn its support, and now I am not sure I could get in to edit or 
change it.  Meantime, Research Gate has gotten started, and provides a somewhat 
better place to meet the world and archive my stuff.  And also, having the site 
on earthlink binds me to them and their 22 dollar a month fee.  So. …

  


I am wondering if there is a way (or a service that would) scrape the website 
and, possibly, dump it into a new and more reliable, more website creation 
medium?  Please, ambulatory knowledge only.  I don’t want a people doing deep 
searches to answer this  question .




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Re: [FRIAM] scraping a web site

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Nick

Your old Earthlink site seems to comprise just about ten 'pages' of 
content, with many of those pages (Published Works) listing many 
bibliographic citations, each with a link to an image and further link 
to a pdf document. Grabbing all the content manually is perhaps tedious 
but doable. Saving all the pages as HTML is also doable but don't see a 
lot of point in that. Populating your Research Gate website should be 
possible too with in browser Copy and Paste - but I'm not familiar with 
RG - as should any other website builder, Wix, Squarespace, WordPress as 
well as hosting company  website builders. I don't know of an automated 
system but the Internet Archive must have something and already has 
multiple captures of past versions of your site - see 
https://web.archive.org/web/20151206005021/http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/. 



I think what you're really looking for is a web/content migration tool 
more so than web scraping tools which tend to be focused on capturing 
specific data, say contact information. Vamosa seems to offer a service 
that should do exactly what you want, see 
http://www.vamosa.com/vamosa-content-migrator-c124 but suspect that's 
aimed at large corporate clients. I have no experience with them. 
Googling 'website migration tools' produces lots of results - some 
questionable.


Hope this helps.

Thanks, Robert


On 1/3/17 9:49 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:


Dear Phellow Phriammers,

I am in the uncomfortable position of being bound by threads of steel 
to Earthlink.  Many, MANY, years I go I started a website on 
Earthlink, {http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 



}, and put a lot of my writing, and some commentary up on it.  The 
website creation and editing medium (trellix) was pretty good for its 
time, and there are many ways that I find the site quite satisfying.  
But gradually Earthlink has withdrawn its support, and now I am not 
sure I could get in to edit or change it.  Meantime, Research Gate has 
gotten started, and provides a somewhat better place to meet the world 
and archive my stuff.  And also, having the site on earthlink binds me 
to them and their 22 dollar a month fee.  So. …


I am wondering if there is a way (or a service that would) scrape the 
website and, possibly, dump it into a new and more reliable, more 
website creation medium? Please, ambulatory knowledge only.  I don’t 
want a people doing deep searches to answer this  question .


Thanks, as always .

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 






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Re: [FRIAM] Model of induction

[Robert J. Cordingley]

 would have the property he asserts, relative 
to P(M).

Of course, none of this ensures that any of these probabilities is empirically 
accurate; that requires efforts at calibrating your whole system.  Cosma 
Shalizi and Andrew Gelman have some lovely write-up of this somewhere, which 
should be easy enough to find (about standard fallacies in use of Bayesian 
updating, and what one can do to avoid committing them naively).   Nonetheless, 
Bayesian updating does have many very desirable properties of converging on 
consistent answers in the limit of long observations, and making you less 
sensitive to mistakes in your original premises (at least under many 
circumstances, inluding roulette wheels) than you were originally.

To my mind, none of this grants probabilities from God, which then end 
discussions.  (So no buying into “objective Bayesianism”.)  What this all does, 
in the best of worlds, is force us to speak in complete sentences about what 
assumptions we are willing to live with to get somewhere in reasoning.

All best,

Eric



On Dec 12, 2016, at 12:44 PM, Robert J. Cordingley  
wrote:

Based on https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce/#dia - it looks like 
abduction (AAA-2) to me - ie developing an educated guess as to which might be 
the winning wheel. Enough funds should find it with some degree of certainty 
but that may be a different question and should use different statistics 
because the 'longest run' is a poor metric compared to say net winnings or 
average rate of winning. A long run is itself a data point and the premise in 
red (below) is false.

Waiting for wisdom to kick in. R

PS FWIW the article does not contain the phrase 'scientific induction' R


On 12/12/16 12:31 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Dear Wise Persons,
  
Would the following work?
  
Imagine you enter a casino that has a thousand roulette tables.  The rumor circulates around the casino that one of the wheels is loaded.  So, you call up a thousand of your friends and you all work together to find the loaded wheel.  Why, because if you use your knowledge to play that wheel you will make a LOT of money.  Now the problem you all face, of course, is that a run of successes is not an infallible sign of a loaded wheel.  In fact, given randomness, it is assured that with a thousand players playing a thousand wheels as fast as they can, there will be random long runs of successes.  But the longer a run of success continues, the greater is the probability that the wheel that produces those successes is biased.  So, your team of players would be paid, on this account, for beginning to focus its play on those wheels with the longest runs.
  
FWIW, this, I think, is Peirce’s model of scientific induction.
  
Nick
  
Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
  




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Re: [FRIAM] Model of induction

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Based on https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce/#dia - it looks like 
abduction (AAA-2) to me - ie developing an educated guess as to which 
might be the winning wheel. Enough funds should find it with some degree 
of certainty but that may be a different question and should use 
different statistics because the 'longest run' is a poor metric compared 
to say net winnings or average rate of winning. A long run is itself a 
data point and the premise in red (below) is false.


Waiting for wisdom to kick in. R

PS FWIW the article does not contain the phrase 'scientific induction' R


On 12/12/16 12:31 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:


Dear Wise Persons,

Would the following work?

*/Imagine you enter a casino that has a thousand roulette tables.  The 
rumor circulates around the casino that one of the wheels is loaded.  
So, you call up a thousand of your friends and you all work together 
to find the loaded wheel.  Why, because if you use your knowledge to 
play that wheel you will make a LOT of money.  Now the problem you all 
face, of course, is that a run of successes is not an infallible sign 
of a loaded wheel.  In fact, given randomness, it is assured that with 
a thousand players playing a thousand wheels as fast as they can, 
there will be random long runs of successes.  But the longer a run of 
success continues, the greater is the probability that the wheel that 
produces those successes is biased.  So, your team of players would be 
paid, on this account, for beginning to focus its play on those wheels 
with the longest runs. /*


FWIW, this, I think, is Peirce’s model of scientific induction.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 






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Re: [FRIAM] Window Blinds

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Joe

I got my materials from fixmyblinds.com - parts I bought included 300 ft 
of string, an excess of 'tassles', a needle for threading through a 
collapsed blind. Plastic 'tassles' disintegrate faster than the string.


Robert


On 7/17/16 10:20 PM, Joe Spinden wrote:


Hi Robert,

Any link to your repair kit ?

Joe


On 7/17/16 10:10 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:


Hi Owen

We have some kind of honeycomb blinds from Coronado too - there's one 
'cell' that extends across the full width. We have no reason not to 
recommend Coronado, they came out to measure and everything fits great.


I have my own repair kit to replace broken cords - bought online. 
It's pretty easy really and for about $60 for the kit it saves a 
$100+ call out each time for the blind man. The kit allows purchase 
of different lengths allowing repairs on dozens of blinds. Repairs 
have become necessary after about 12 years of use. By taking them 
down myself also gives me the chance to clean off moth marks and 
such. If I was buying replacements I'd ask about cleaning and 
materials that might resist moth/bug marks better.


Robert C.



On 7/17/16 9:10 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
Owen, my blinds are all “duette” blinds, sort of the same as 
honeycomb. They were bought by the previous owner (so we’re going 
back almost thirty years). She bought them from Brother Sun, Sister 
Moon (or vice versa). Brother Sun etc. isn’t very good about 
servicing them—the cords eventually rot in the Santa Fe sun, and 
Brother Blah Blah had no advice on this—but Coronado has given me 
several names over the years of people who will come to the house 
and restring the blinds. If I had it to do over again, I’d go with 
Coronado (on Cerrillos) from the get-go.


In fact, one of their recommended guys, who I’ve used before, is 
coming tomorrow afternoon to restring three blinds. These are for 
big windows and are far too big for me to handle by taking them down 
to the shop.


Pamela


On Jul 17, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Owen Densmore <mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:


Yet Another Santa Fe Question:

We're looking for "honey comb shades" or similar insulating window 
blinds and wonder where to go? We've got a lot of windows that are 
heating up the house and need replacement blinds, the current ones 
are pretty beat up.


Lowe's and Home Depot is obvious, but I wonder if anyone has 
experience with others .. cause we're a bit reluctant about 
Lowe's/Home. But hey, if they work, that's fine too.


Any recommendations? Thanks.

 -- Owen

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Re: [FRIAM] Window Blinds

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Owen

We have some kind of honeycomb blinds from Coronado too - there's one 
'cell' that extends across the full width. We have no reason not to 
recommend Coronado, they came out to measure and everything fits great.


I have my own repair kit to replace broken cords - bought online. It's 
pretty easy really and for about $60 for the kit it saves a $100+ call 
out each time for the blind man. The kit allows purchase of different 
lengths allowing repairs on dozens of blinds. Repairs have become 
necessary after about 12 years of use. By taking them down myself also 
gives me the chance to clean off moth marks and such. If I was buying 
replacements I'd ask about cleaning and materials that might resist 
moth/bug marks better.


Robert C.



On 7/17/16 9:10 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
Owen, my blinds are all “duette” blinds, sort of the same as 
honeycomb. They were bought by the previous owner (so we’re going back 
almost thirty years). She bought them from Brother Sun, Sister Moon 
(or vice versa). Brother Sun etc. isn’t very good about servicing 
them—the cords eventually rot in the Santa Fe sun, and Brother Blah 
Blah had no advice on this—but Coronado has given me several names 
over the years of people who will come to the house and restring the 
blinds. If I had it to do over again, I’d go with Coronado (on 
Cerrillos) from the get-go.


In fact, one of their recommended guys, who I’ve used before, is 
coming tomorrow afternoon to restring three blinds. These are for big 
windows and are far too big for me to handle by taking them down to 
the shop.


Pamela


On Jul 17, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Yet Another Santa Fe Question:

We're looking for "honey comb shades" or similar insulating window 
blinds and wonder where to go? We've got a lot of windows that are 
heating up the house and need replacement blinds, the current ones 
are pretty beat up.


Lowe's and Home Depot is obvious, but I wonder if anyone has 
experience with others .. cause we're a bit reluctant about 
Lowe's/Home. But hey, if they work, that's fine too.


Any recommendations? Thanks.

   -- Owen

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Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

[Robert J. Cordingley]

My question is then what do Analog Computers 
 do and how do they fit 
into Nick's exploration? As I recall they have no procedures but do 
produce 'answers' without computation as we commonly know it these days. 
They probably have an 'accept state' to tell the user when the 'answer' 
is available. The same Wikipedia article (linked) speaks to ongoing 
research into their use.


Robert C

On 7/6/16 1:05 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

I didn't ask it because I wasn't smart enough to think of it.

I guess what I was fishing for is some sort of exploration of the idea that not 
all procedures for arriving at answers are computations.

Not so smart, after all, eh?

Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 2:47 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

"Ask" could be a higher order function that takes as an argument a "says" 
function.
Provided those are made precise enough to be operational, then you would have a "consult the 
Oracle" program/algorithm.  Details such as "how to acquire the Dad" (and what to do 
in his absence) would need to be spelled-out.
With such a program one might build another program which would be "predict what the 
Oracle will say given different values".
That program would demonstrate insight on the part of the author.I'm not 
sure what you are driving at here.   Why don't you just say?
I thought it was probably "computing is not insight" or something like that?

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:33 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Thanks, Glen,

I assume that the following is NOT a program in your sense.

;;Compute the sum of 2 and 2;;.

Begin

Ask Dad, "Dad, what is the sum of 2 and 2?

Dad says, "Four"

Four

End.

It is, however, an algorithm, right?


Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University 
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep ropella
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:56 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Nick,  It's fantastic how you punch right through the rhetoric to the deeper 
philosophical points.  Thanks.

It all depends on how you define "compute".  I think the best definition 
offered here (by Lee) is Soare's:

"A computation is a process whereby we proceed from initially given objects, called 
inputs, according to a fixed set of rules, called a program, procedure, or algorithm, 
through a series of steps and arrive at the end of these steps with a final result, 
called the output. The algorithm, as a set of rules proceeding from inputs to output, 
must be precise and definite, with each successive step clearly determined. (Soare, 1996, 
p. 286; definitional emphases in the original)"

The tricky part, in my opinion, is the "definite" requirement.  Definiteness 
seems like a relatively simple concept.  But it's not.  cf eg:

https://aphilosopherstake.com/2016/06/11/is-the-universe-part-of-the-world/

"We often speak as if we can quantify over absolutely everything, or at least 
absolutely every-actual-thing, but then continue to reason as if all of those (actual) 
things form a set. In many cases this looks perfectly harmless. If we’re talking about 
medium-sized dry goods, for example, we can think of our quantifiers as being implicitly 
restricted to e.g. physical objects (our second-order quantifiers to sets of those, etc). 
As on even the most liberal views of what counts as a physical object, there aren’t more 
than continuum-many (the cardinality of the real numbers) of them, we shouldn’t run into 
an immediate problems."

On 07/05/2016 09:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Thanks, Frank.
Now all is clear.

On 07/05/2016 07:31 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

You can decide what it means to compute the square root of 2.  For example, you 
can program the Turing machine to enter an accept state if it finds a number 
(it can) whose square is within 10^-9 of 2.

On 07/05/2016 06:25 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:> Thanks, Eric,

  Can one “compute” the square root of two?


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[FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: Anyone from England

[Robert J. Cordingley]

From an ol-ex-pat...

I listened to BBC World Service live on my iPhone app with mounting 
surprise as the returns showed the Leave solidifying their gains. I 
agree Cameron gambled and lost. I can sympathize with some resentment 
towards the 'faceless' bureaucrats in Brussels making fine-grained and 
annoying regulations but was surprised that the immigration issue struck 
such a chord among what appears to be mostly the working class. And 
these immigrants are mostly Caucasian Eastern Europeans.


But Britain was never so tightly integrated as other member countries 
who adopted the Euro currency. So the challenge to British identity, the 
Pound, and possibly the Crown eventually became too much for the man and 
woman on the street.


I suspect Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to Remain because a) the 
immigration issue isn't really there there and they received a lot of 
Euro funding for social/infrastructure projects while Britain as a whole 
was a net contributor.


A US parallel might be Texas seceding from the Union.

Some numbers from 
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm/

/

   /2014 Expenditures UK €6,984 Million, while France, Germany, Poland,
   Italy, Greece, Belgium* and Spain all got more and Poland at €17.4B
   a lot more. (* 2007 //€//4B on administration presumably to run the
   EU and is similar to the Mayor of London's budget)//
   /

   /2014 Total National Contributions UK //€//11,341 Million, 4th
   largest after Germany, France and Italy./

So there's over €4 Billion/yr off the bat to be gained by leaving before 
taking trade & employment impacts into account which are predicted to be 
dire, only no country has done this before so there's no basis for 
predications.


Robert C


On 6/25/16 1:46 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
From what I heard David Cameron messed it up. He failed miserably. In 
order to get elected and to get rid of his right wing critics he 
promised the people this referendum where they can vote for or against 
the EU. If people had voted to remain in the EU it would have been a 
victory for him. It wasn't. He lost.


Most of the "Brexit" voters voted against the EU because they are 
against immigrants and want to make Britain great again, much like 
Trump in US. Unfortunately it will not happen, the British Pound will 
drop, customs will raise and the UK will slide into a recession. EU 
funding for universities in the UK will stop. It looks pretty bad for 
Great Britain, as you can see in the reaction of the stock markets.


TL;DR Cameron messed it up and everyone in Europe is a bit shocked 
about the result of the referendum.


Regards
Jochen

Sent from my Tricorder

 Original message 
From: Gillian Densmore 
Date: 6/24/16 21:23 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


Subject: [FRIAM] Anyone from England

Care to speculate what's going on with this leave the EU thing?

I can guess but I might be wrong, I suppose I thought while the EU 
comes across as a discuntional family. I didn't know drama between 
England and the rest of Europe was so bad that they'd want to leave.


places like telegraph aren't exactly helping matters:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-live-david-cameron-resigns-as-uk-shocks-the-world/

So anyone from England  have some opinions about what's going on?
Also as it is reported in America it's a close call of  48 to 50% 
unless I totally misunderstand parimentarian best practices I thought 
that's when they called for another vote or a simple majority?

Or am I wrong?
More importantly can I still move there if a certain delusional Sith 
think's he can do some good?not a sith lord, just a sith, he's got all 
the makings of a sith, just not a good one.

:P

How's the beer and weather?
Where's a good place to live?

Anyway I hope all everyone has a day full of glory!
MUCH MERRIMENT AND REVELRY!





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[FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: Here's to the 1%!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Seems the question revolves around societies' morals. Jesse Prinz (a 
Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the City University of New 
York) writing 
 
in Philosophy Now suggests that societies do not converge on a universal 
set of morals (unless driven by outside forces). Prof. Prinz goes on to 
discuss moral objectivism vs moral relativism and to justify the latter. 
So (it seems) what kind of state we tolerate depends on our shared and 
inculcated morality.

Robert C

On 4/6/16 10:19 PM, Carl wrote:
Well, constitutions are tools of the current narrative.   Consider 
Article 9.   It's pressed into service depending on the story various 
authorities wants to reify.   One can consider what's on the paper and 
say oh that's pretty cool, but


On 4/6/16 1:36 PM, gepr wrote:


It seems to me that authoritarianism can be fostered without an 
organismic authority (like a king or priest class). Isn't the "rule 
of law" or a constitution intended to objectify the authority? If 
that's the case, then the psychological manipulation from things like 
religion or capital punishment can/could eventually become 
unnecessary to achieve an authoritarian state.







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Re: [FRIAM] go programs

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Access, for a fee, to the original Jan, 2016 Nature article on AlpahGo 
is at 
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7587/full/nature16961.html. 
The freely available abstract says it uses deep neural networks ('value 
networks' and 'policy networks'), tree search and Monte Carlo 
algorithms. Figures and tables with more information are also freely 
available from 
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v529/n7587/fig_tab/nature16961_ft.html


Robert C

On 3/13/16 8:53 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
Me, I'm still stuck in the 80's... most of what I know about GO 
programs involves trying to solve them using cellular automata systems 
based on the promise of hardware implementations and other esoteric 
ways of doing CA computation...   Tomasso Toffolli's custom CA 
hardware was one promising thing that I think eventually fizzled as 
was our own Jim Crutchfield's analog "video feedback" CA computing 
concepts...


My own favorite which I went on to do some exploratory work in was the 
"memoisation" work of Bill Gosper which involves generating hash 
tables at each scale (say 3x3, 6x6, 12x12, 24x24) cell arrays such 
that if "redundant" patterns occurred at any scale they could be 
"looked up" instead of computed.   In a 3x3 (9 cell) array, there are 
naturally only 512 (2^9) hash indices so the computation at that level 
is manageable by memoisation... while a 6x6 is 2^36 or roughly 64M 
entries, not quite so tractable/trivial if the distribution of 
possible configurations of binary CA were uniform...  which 
interesting GO configurations naturally are NOT.   A slight 
modification to this is that a binary CA is not sufficient since the 
states of each cell can be White/Black/Empty... so the math changes to 
4^9 and 4^26,etc...


Similar attempts were made for checkers and chess which as I remember, 
the state space for Checkers is much larger than for Chess 
(surprising?) but GO... much higher (larger board!) and the depth 
(number of relevant moves ahead) also much higher!


I look forward to hearing what the current state of computer GO play 
might look like as well!


- Steve


There were stories during the expert systems episode in the 80's that 
some experts when debriefed in an attempt to identify their rules 
went on to lose faith in their own expertise and to resign from the 
field. Other anecdotes talked about how some experts weren't capable 
of expressing their expertise - such knowledge, skills & experience 
was referred to as 'compiled knowledge', accessible but not 
expressible, much like Artificial Neural Networks are. Work 
 
to address this problem has been underway since the 90's. Perhaps 
others here can provide an update?


Robert C

On 3/13/16 8:45 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think a deep neural network trained from self play has a subjective, and even 
inscrutable inner representation.  Imagine such techniques were applied to 
public policy decisions or medical diagnosis.   Without a linguistic component 
that co-evolved to describe a taken action, one could be left with robot 
savants that outperformed humans on crucial tasks and no one, including the 
robot, would have any idea why.

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 13, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:

I've been watching parts of the match between Lee Sedol and Alpha Go on the 
youtube deepmind channel.  It's quite good, they start off with a discussion of 
the previous game, give running commentary during the game, and audibly gasp 
when the progress of the game shocks them.  The post match press conferences 
are not to be missed, either.  It's a completely trump free zone.

But you're looking at a full day's work for each game, 6 hours and 17 minutes 
of video from last night's game which Lee Sedol won.  I was too tired to stay 
up and watch so I tuned into youtube this morning and watched the endgame.

Apparently I forwarded past the key move, #78, which a Chinese journalist, quoting a 
Chinese commentator, called "a God's move".  Lee Sedol replied that it was the 
only move he had at the time, that he had thought it would be easier to make some profit, 
but it was quite difficult.

So the same play is described as both creative genius and inevitable in the 
space of a few sentences.  Glad to know that some things will never change.

-- rec --



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===

Re: [FRIAM] go programs

[Robert J. Cordingley]

There were stories during the expert systems episode in the 80's that 
some experts when debriefed in an attempt to identify their rules went 
on to lose faith in their own expertise and to resign from the field. 
Other anecdotes talked about how some experts weren't capable of 
expressing their expertise - such knowledge, skills & experience was 
referred to as 'compiled knowledge', accessible but not expressible, 
much like Artificial Neural Networks are. Work 
 to 
address this problem has been underway since the 90's. Perhaps others 
here can provide an update?


Robert C

On 3/13/16 8:45 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I think a deep neural network trained from self play has a subjective, and even 
inscrutable inner representation.  Imagine such techniques were applied to 
public policy decisions or medical diagnosis.   Without a linguistic component 
that co-evolved to describe a taken action, one could be left with robot 
savants that outperformed humans on crucial tasks and no one, including the 
robot, would have any idea why.

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 13, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Roger Critchlow  wrote:

I've been watching parts of the match between Lee Sedol and Alpha Go on the 
youtube deepmind channel.  It's quite good, they start off with a discussion of 
the previous game, give running commentary during the game, and audibly gasp 
when the progress of the game shocks them.  The post match press conferences 
are not to be missed, either.  It's a completely trump free zone.

But you're looking at a full day's work for each game, 6 hours and 17 minutes 
of video from last night's game which Lee Sedol won.  I was too tired to stay 
up and watch so I tuned into youtube this morning and watched the endgame.

Apparently I forwarded past the key move, #78, which a Chinese journalist, quoting a 
Chinese commentator, called "a God's move".  Lee Sedol replied that it was the 
only move he had at the time, that he had thought it would be easier to make some profit, 
but it was quite difficult.

So the same play is described as both creative genius and inevitable in the 
space of a few sentences.  Glad to know that some things will never change.

-- rec --



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Re: [FRIAM] go programs

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Then I'm wondering if in losing the first 3 games Lee Sedol was no 
longer under any pressure to win the $million prize and could play in a 
more relaxed but more focused way - tho' I've not seen any commentary 
that effect yet.


Interestingly AlphaGo was initially trained on strong amateur games 
available on the internet and no Lee Sedol games. It got stronger by 
playing itself. Wonder what would happen if it trained on available 
professional games but a few more hundred games wouldn't apparently make 
much difference since "AlphaGo required millions of games to train itself".


FYI the final match 5 is on Monday Mar 14 9:00 pm Mountain Time - 
Tuesday Mar 15 04:00 GMT


Robert C


On 3/13/16 9:03 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
Here's the link for match 4 (of 5) that AlphaGo resigned. Score now 
stands at 3:1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCALyQRN3hw
Post match press conference starts around 5:45:10 - a big news event 
in Korea.


Robert C


On 3/13/16 8:00 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
I've been watching parts of the match between Lee Sedol and Alpha Go 
on the youtube deepmind channel.  It's quite good, they start off 
with a discussion of the previous game, give running commentary 
during the game, and audibly gasp when the progress of the game 
shocks them.  The post match press conferences are not to be missed, 
either.  It's a completely trump free zone.


But you're looking at a full day's work for each game, 6 hours and 17 
minutes of video from last night's game which Lee Sedol won.  I was 
too tired to stay up and watch so I tuned into youtube this morning 
and watched the endgame.


Apparently I forwarded past the key move, #78, which a Chinese 
journalist, quoting a Chinese commentator, called "a God's move".  
Lee Sedol replied that it was the only move he had at the time, that 
he had thought it would be easier to make some profit, but it was 
quite difficult.


So the same play is described as both creative genius and inevitable 
in the space of a few sentences.  Glad to know that some things will 
never change.


-- rec --





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Re: [FRIAM] go programs

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Here's the link for match 4 (of 5) that AlphaGo resigned. Score now 
stands at 3:1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCALyQRN3hw
Post match press conference starts around 5:45:10 - a big news event in 
Korea.


Robert C


On 3/13/16 8:00 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
I've been watching parts of the match between Lee Sedol and Alpha Go 
on the youtube deepmind channel.  It's quite good, they start off with 
a discussion of the previous game, give running commentary during the 
game, and audibly gasp when the progress of the game shocks them.  The 
post match press conferences are not to be missed, either.  It's a 
completely trump free zone.


But you're looking at a full day's work for each game, 6 hours and 17 
minutes of video from last night's game which Lee Sedol won.  I was 
too tired to stay up and watch so I tuned into youtube this morning 
and watched the endgame.


Apparently I forwarded past the key move, #78, which a Chinese 
journalist, quoting a Chinese commentator, called "a God's move".  Lee 
Sedol replied that it was the only move he had at the time, that he 
had thought it would be easier to make some profit, but it was quite 
difficult.


So the same play is described as both creative genius and inevitable 
in the space of a few sentences.  Glad to know that some things will 
never change.


-- rec --





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Re: [FRIAM] Hosting Service

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Owen,

Most hosting companies will offer a VPS which will give you total 
control of the *nix platform. Costs more but you can install whatever 
you want including your own versions of PHP and MySQL for example. 
Shared hosting accounts don't allow that but suspect you know this.


Here's a report on 2015's Best "VPS" Hosting Reviews 
 - noticed GoDaddy's not 
included, BlueHost comes in second but equally low priced at $15/mo.


Thanks
Robert

On 9/28/15 12:57 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
The hosting service for backspaces.net  
literally closed up shop and disappeared w/o warning or access to data!


So I'm looking for a reasonable hosting service with ssh access and 
modest hacking capabilities .. bash, *nix commands, possibly node.js, 
as well as a reasonable "dashboard" .. like CPanel or similar for 
installing packages.


I'll probably use this as a way to toss hosted wordpress and media 
wiki and just use much simpler blog/wiki web services.


Any recommendations?

 -- Owen



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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Amphibians of Colorado - Reptiles and Amphibians of Colorado

[Robert J. Cordingley]

At the risk of perhaps stating the obvious, WordPress.com (which hosts 
sites with some limitations) is different from wordpress.org which 
provides documentation, resources and know how primarily for developers 
to host their own WordPress site with no limitations and with access to 
the core code.

Robert

On 9/11/15 4:14 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

and of course Wordpress:

Wordpress.org 



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Re: [FRIAM] Amphibians of Colorado - Reptiles and Amphibians of Colorado

[Robert J. Cordingley]

A correction:
Wix, Weebly, Jimdo, IM Creator do have free plans see the comparison 
chart at 
http://www.websitebuilderexpert.com/website-builders-comparison-chart/


Thanks
Robert

On 9/11/15 12:14 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
To build on Gary's suggestions there's a review of DIY Websites at 
http://www.websitebuilderexpert.com/diy-website-builder/. Comparisons 
from September 4 this year include Wix, Squarespace, Weebly, Jindo, 
GoDaddy and IM Creator, but none are free.


WordPress.com <http://WordPress.com> is free and may be worth 
considering. It has some premium options.


Thanks,
Robert
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On 9/11/15 6:36 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
If the website is the goal, rather than a tool for learning web 
development, then one of the sites like wix.com <http://wix.com> 
have drag-and-drop editors built in. The site mentioned is hosted on 
weebly.com <http://weebly.com>, so would be an obvious choice.


On Thursday, September 10, 2015, Nick Thompson 
 wrote:


Dear Friammers,

My grandson was inspired by this website,

http://www.reptilesofcolorado.com/amphibians-of-colorado.html

to want to do a website of his own, and asked for my help.  I
have done three Websites in my time, the most recent a few years
ago using Google Sites.  I found it adequate for my needs, but
Google has the attention span of a gnat, and I assume they have
not changed it and that a lot has changed in the environment
since I last used it.

So, I am asking if anybody out there recommends a simple website
development tool, preferably free but not necessarily free,  on
which I could help him develop a site.  For his age (12) he is
remarkable nature artist and a pretty good photographer, so it
cannot be a kiddie thing.

Any thoughts?

N




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Re: [FRIAM] Amphibians of Colorado - Reptiles and Amphibians of Colorado

[Robert J. Cordingley]

To build on Gary's suggestions there's a review of DIY Websites at 
http://www.websitebuilderexpert.com/diy-website-builder/. Comparisons 
from September 4 this year include Wix, Squarespace, Weebly, Jindo, 
GoDaddy and IM Creator, but none are free.


WordPress.com  is free and may be worth 
considering. It has some premium options.


Thanks,
Robert

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On 9/11/15 6:36 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
If the website is the goal, rather than a tool for learning web 
development, then one of the sites like wix.com  
have drag-and-drop editors built in. The site mentioned is hosted on 
weebly.com , so would be an obvious choice.


On Thursday, September 10, 2015, Nick Thompson 
> wrote:


Dear Friammers,

My grandson was inspired by this website,

http://www.reptilesofcolorado.com/amphibians-of-colorado.html

to want to do a website of his own, and asked for my help.  I have
done three Websites in my time, the most recent a few years ago
using Google Sites.  I found it adequate for my needs, but Google
has the attention span of a gnat, and I assume they have not
changed it and that a lot has changed in the environment since I
last used it.

So, I am asking if anybody out there recommends a simple website
development tool, preferably free but not necessarily free,  on
which I could help him develop a site.  For his age (12) he is
remarkable nature artist and a pretty good photographer, so it
cannot be a kiddie thing.

Any thoughts?

N




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Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[Robert J. Cordingley]

It used to bug my British parents that Germany's factories got rebuilt 
out of the Marshall Plan deal while Britain's, that were also heavily 
bombed, didn't. Think of the impact that must have had on the economic 
competitiveness of the two countries for a long time.  However, as a 
means to avoid any repeat of the WWI reparations disaster (ie the rise 
of the Third Reich) it probably was a good idea at the time. I'm with 
Paul Krugman 
.


I wonder if Tsipiras would ever play a Putin card. Greece is a member of 
NATO which presumably would remain unchanged with a Grexit but who knows 
what economic commitments might ensue.  However, it was suggested 
(perhaps by Krugman) that Russia's economy may itself not be in a very 
fit state to supply any meaningful benefit to Greece. But I don't think 
the EU/US should get complacent over any of this.


Robert C



On 7/7/15 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with 
exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only 
be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was 
scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by 
hand (die Trummelfrauen).  Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas 
Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers 
yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was 
clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the 
Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle.


Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from 
Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s 
a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers 
you a blanket...





On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson > wrote:



Marcus,
Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are 
limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week.  
Am I missing something?  I assume that a lot of people are going to 
starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no 
air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. 
etc.  I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left 
parties. Rioting, and bloodshed?  Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you 
know that I don’t know?
Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the 
Marshall Plan.

N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 

*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Marcus 
Daniels

*Sent:*Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
*To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can 
follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German 
population after WWI.   Or for that matter, the American South after 
the Civil War.   I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at 
this point.”
Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same 
thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

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[FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

[Robert J. Cordingley]

As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works 
and the role of philosophy...


1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article 
 
that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized 
in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia 
 / 
Youtube ) between Greece 
and Germany. Is it true?


2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but 
never in the US?


Robert C

--
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)


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Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution

[Robert J. Cordingley]

The 2014 Annual Report names names for the Board of Directors
See 
https://evolution-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/NP_EI_2014_AnnualReport_web-printout.pdf

Robert C

On 6/29/15 10:43 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

is this a U.S. based organization -- hard to know since they hide their domain 
registration!


--
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Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)



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Re: [FRIAM] The Attack on Truth - The Chronicle of Higher Education

[Robert J. Cordingley]

It has been suggested  
that stifling of independent reasoning (aka willful ignorance) 
contributed to the end of the Islamic Golden Age. I've seen other 
references calling it a rise in anti-rationalism.  Western civilization 
may be heading the same way.


Robert C
PS sorry to enter the thread a little late. R

On 6/10/15 7:05 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

-- rec --

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Steve Smith > wrote:




Nick,

It's the _shocked_ outrage I find tiresome.  By all means be
outraged at any and all forms of corruption that take your fancy,
and forge that outrage into action.

But if someone is shocked and thinks that shock is worth
mentioning, then he or she hasn't been paying attention or is
exhibiting another kind of "willful ignorance".

-- rec --

Roger (et alii) -

And what of "shocked but not surprised"?

The longer I live, the more I experience this dichotomy... my
intellectual self has catalogued a wide enough range of behaviour
and experience in the world, that when confronted with a specific
new point fact in the universe, I can usually find a place to hang
it in my world-view tree, but that doesn't mean it doesn't disturb
my soul when I first apprehend the "factoid" in question.

I wonder how this is affected by our wide-ranging apprehension
mediated (mostly, or formerly) by journalism (nod to Tom) and now
(more recently) crowd-sourcing of information from around the
world (including in the (willfully hidden from self?) corners of
our own back yards).  On one hand we get desensitized (thus losing
"shock value") and on the other hand we are given much more
context in which to help us properly understand whatever "shocked
but not surprised" factoid just got bounced off our apprehension.

Every time I feel "shocked" (if not surprised) I am thankful that
my soul remains tender enough to experience that.  While I do have
plenty of callouses of cynicism, it is nice to be reminded that I
am still alive inside these multiple layers of insulation
(economic and other forms of security, cynicism, etc.).

- Steve



On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Nick Thompson
mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>>
wrote:

But Roger, isn’t this a ticket to apathy? Where is the spur
to action without outrage?  I know that question sounds odd,
but I am really asking it.  Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
] *On Behalf Of *Roger
Critchlow
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:37 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Attack on Truth - The Chronicle of
Higher Education

Of course the really fun thing about statistics is the
ongoing discussion about the "willful ignorance" of
scientists submitting papers with technically correct but
wholly dubious claims of statistical significance, because --
rather, becorrelate -- their salaries depend on getting
published.  Funny that the language naturally inserts a
causal claim into that observation, where I would rather put
the cause on the system than the individuals, and I have to
invent a word to back off

I'm tending to see this issue theologically.  The technical
name for "we're all imperfect and we've always been so" is
original sin.  Feeling a bit of impostor syndrome?  That's
how the personal experience of original sin manifests.
Disgusted that cops aren't fair, that rich people get
privileges, that politicians repay rich people with more
privileges, that FIFA is corrupt, that Australia outsources
immigrant detention camps to Nauru, that Nauru denies visas
to Australian civil rights lawyers seeking to defend
immigrant rights, and so on?  Yeah, well, be disgusted, but
try not to get too righteous about it and spare us the
expressions of shocked outrage. If you're shocked at this,
then you haven't been paying attention.

So, are there any entirely good or entirely bad persons?  Or
are they entirely figments of our imaginations?

-- rec --

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, glen mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Statistics is one tool.  I'm not sure it's the most
powerful tool, though.  I tend to think the best tool is
... well, it goes by many names. One name is "active

Re: [FRIAM] Euclid

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I have to confess I got stuck at Level 23 because, I'm claiming, I 
wasn't familiar with the geometry of homothetic centers 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homothetic_center>.  Is there a complexity 
site that does the same sort of thing?  It looks like a great way to 
extend one's education on an otherwise relatively difficult subject.


Robert C

On 2/27/15 2:54 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
A new but possibly entertaining productivity sink? 
http://euclidthegame.com


Robert C


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[FRIAM] Euclid

[Robert J. Cordingley]

A new but possibly entertaining productivity sink? http://euclidthegame.com

Robert C


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Re: [FRIAM] FRIAM Field Trip?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hmm...

 * to get an appreciation of the macro and micro cultures of American
   militarism of the period
 * to marvel at the engineering accomplishments
 * /Fifi/ is the last B-29 on active flying status* and that can't last
   forever
 * a fascination with warcraft

but of course that's not your point. Should pacifists avoid military 
museums?


Robert C
* for a price (~$600-$1600) you can book a ride.

On 8/1/14 10:00 AM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
I am really at a loss here.  Why would ANYONE like to tour a B-29? 
 Give me one good reason.



On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Tom Johnson > wrote:


Anyone want to join me in going out to tour a B-29 tomorrow
(Friday, Aug. 1) late morning after usual FRIAM roundup at St.
John's?  $10   See
http://www.airpowersquadron.org/#!santa-fe-nm/ccjb


Tom Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482 (c) 505.473.9646 (h)
Twitter: jtjohnson
slideshare.net/jtjohnson/presentations

http://www.jtjohnson.com 
t...@jtjohnson.com 



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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
me...@emergentdiplomacy.org 
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merlelefkoff



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Re: [FRIAM] Smart Forums

[Robert J. Cordingley]

With the Apple/IBM recent announcement 
 
Watson on your iPhone is looking distinctly possible - from Aug 28, 
2012: 
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/135173-ibm-working-on-watson-app-for-smartphones. 
Sounds like it would be a much better medium for delivering tech support 
than a forum - can't wait!


Robert C



On 7/17/14 10:26 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
I ran into a surprise re: support when changing to the Gulp task 
manager.  Their only support, posted on their github page, is:


Still got questions? Post onStackOverflow with a #gulp tag 
, or come chat with us 
in#gulpjs onFreenode 
.


Oddly enough, it worked for me.  SO w/ #gulp got responses.

Re: OP: freenode is a continuous conversation on a topic that sorta 
emerges, but under the umbrella of a common high level project, in 
this case the Gulp task manager.


 -- Owen


On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Good moderators make a huge difference .. sorta herding the cats.

The Atom text editor has a discussion list
http://discuss.atom.io/
.. that is well moderated although it is a bit noisy.

For me it works well enough as a support site.

 -- Owen




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Re: [FRIAM] Smart Forums

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I think a forum is a sub-optimal (i.e. terrible)  means of delivering 
technical support.  At best it might be a linked list (thread) of emails 
submitted by participants with a heavy dose of anecdotal evidence and 
occasional contributions and responses from the vendor.  Searching a 
forum for a solution often only generates a list of submittals from 
people with the same problem.  It is possible to pose questions 
(interrogate).


A working wiki on the other hand is a moderated compendium of articles 
submitted by participants and generally edited by enthusiasts.  As a 
means of delivering technical support it beats out forums but probably 
takes more energy and resources to compile, organize and moderate.  It's 
impossible to interrogate.


It's my understanding that CBR systems theoretically organize 
information into 'working knowledge' using some form of an inference 
engine to solve problems based on people's experiences.  It may also 
suffer from anecdotal evidence depending on how it is managed but might 
be possible to interrogate.


Your link to 'here' returned ' there doesn't seem to be anything here' 
(sic) from reddit and searching reddit for 'forum' generated a S/N of 
zero in the first two pages.  In the search results a typical article 
title was 'My PC has been on the fritz for over a year.' - demonstrating 
my point.


So a Siri  style interface on top of 
any of these bodies of knowledge would be a big improvement.  Mostly 
tho' I like to connect with a live technically trained human being.


Thanks,
Robert C


On 7/16/14 11:23 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:
Well, I generally think of the improvement of forum interactions as a 
community phenomenon, eased or impeded by the structure of 
communication and interaction with the site infrastructure*, rather 
than as a computational dilemma /per se/;  but I would be interested 
to hear what ways you think fora could be improved by AI.
A general forum for thinking about internet fora (or forums, depending 
on your preference) is here 
.

-Arlo James Barnes

*For software support, it is that interaction with the site is very 
limited - mostly, people are only there for the duration of the time 
they need assistance, and during that time are more interested in 
getting help than giving help. There is no time for the structure, 
mores, and history of the site to become clear, and so communication 
is weakened.




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[FRIAM] Smart Forums

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Recent experiences with software support and the forums that vendors use 
leave much to be desired.  Primary problems seem to be: poor signal to 
noise ratios, ineffective search & navigation tools and no meaningful 
structures.  Looks like it's an AI problem or perhaps specifically even 
a problem for Case Based Reasoning.  Does anyone on the list have any 
experiences with or suggestions for better solutions that might be 
thought of as Smart Forums?

Thanks
Robert C




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[FRIAM] Done! Re: How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

It is done! Somewhen around 7:30pm.  Now at $5,018,512
Thanks
Robert C

On 7/4/14 6:19 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
I see they accept bitcoin... I wonder if there is any stats on how 
many people are paying *with* bitcoin?

Hi
By my calcs, over the past hour or so folks are pledging at the rate 
of over $2.17 million a day!  It's still on target to pass $5m just 
after 8pm mountain time. (Who needs Hawaii!)

Robert C

On 7/4/14 5:49 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
Nice.  And a good thing they're using Hawaiian time! 




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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi
By my calcs, over the past hour or so folks are pledging at the rate of 
over $2.17 million a day!  It's still on target to pass $5m just after 
8pm mountain time. (Who needs Hawaii!)

Robert C

On 7/4/14 5:49 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
Nice.  And a good thing they're using Hawaiian time! 




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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Correction - typo: it was $349,190. Math was still ok - I think. R

On 7/4/14 4:20 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
Based on Owen's number at 3:48 pm when I received the email and just 
now at 4:12 pm when it was $340,190 to go, seems like folks are 
pledging at the rate of about $106,765/hr which means they'll hit $5m 
in about 3-4 hours!  Make it so!


Robert C
PS I upped my pledge.

On 7/4/14 3:48 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

Hey, they're at $4,608,104, just $391,896 from their target!  Maybe? 


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Owen Densmore <mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:


Dude!  I'm so on it!  Quad down.


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Steve Smith mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote:



OK, go ahead debate away, you've got till July 4 to
let us know if it
will work or not.  Good luck!


No, actually, we have plenty of time beyond 7/4.  Please
see https://mayday.us/.


You meant it goes beyond 7/4?

My understanding is the *matching* fund is what is important
.. if mayday gets $5M by 7/4, it gets matched by several
wealthy folks.

I didn't see anything on the site about extending beyond
7/4.  I do know that when you pledge, you get to say "keep
it anyway" if the goal is not made.  But the matching is
where the magic is.

The map at
https://mayday.us/your-donations/
shows pledges by zip code.  Mine, 87505, shows 9 pledges for
$485.  Nine pledges seems sorta puny.


501, 505, 507 and 508mustered 29 and $1,375...

my own "team" of 506 and 544 mustered $685 with 12 pledges

c'mon slackers! double down!  Let's buy our government back!


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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Based on Owen's number at 3:48 pm when I received the email and just now 
at 4:12 pm when it was $340,190 to go, seems like folks are pledging at 
the rate of about $106,765/hr which means they'll hit $5m in about 3-4 
hours!  Make it so!


Robert C
PS I upped my pledge.

On 7/4/14 3:48 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

Hey, they're at $4,608,104, just $391,896 from their target!  Maybe? 


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Dude!  I'm so on it!  Quad down.


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Steve Smith mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote:



OK, go ahead debate away, you've got till July 4 to
let us know if it
will work or not.  Good luck!


No, actually, we have plenty of time beyond 7/4.  Please
see https://mayday.us/.


You meant it goes beyond 7/4?

My understanding is the *matching* fund is what is important
.. if mayday gets $5M by 7/4, it gets matched by several
wealthy folks.

I didn't see anything on the site about extending beyond 7/4.
 I do know that when you pledge, you get to say "keep it
anyway" if the goal is not made.  But the matching is where
the magic is.

The map at
https://mayday.us/your-donations/
shows pledges by zip code.  Mine, 87505, shows 9 pledges for
$485.  Nine pledges seems sorta puny.


501, 505, 507 and 508mustered 29 and $1,375...

my own "team" of 506 and 544 mustered $685 with 12 pledges

c'mon slackers! double down!  Let's buy our government back!


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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

OK, go ahead debate away, you've got till July 4 to let us know if it 
will work or not.  Good luck!


Meanwhile (perhaps echoing Joe's sentiment), who on this list can say 
they are actively engaged in productive work (Complexity based or 
otherwise) to reduce the influence of money in US politics? (95% of US 
population agree its got out of hand.) Please share what you can and 
what S.T.E.M. skills are being used.  Possibly, there are others here 
who can help with such initiatives.


Robert C

On 7/2/14 9:35 AM, glen wrote:

On 07/01/2014 09:22 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:

Dare I say, as expected, offered an opportunity to actual do something,
many (the 91%?) keep explaining (debate back and forth) why one should
do nothing.


You're being ridiculous, here.  Do you really think talking about 
whether and how Lessig's campaign will work is "explaining why one 
should do nothing"?  Should we all just daydream about a better day 
without also thinking through how it would actually work?






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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Dare I say, as expected, offered an opportunity to actual do something, 
many (the 91%?) keep explaining (debate back and forth) why one should 
do nothing.


With all the talent and expertise on this list, surely someone could 
help Larry Lessig succeed with his campaign?  It's complicated/complex.  
Who's up to it?  Remember, this was inspired 
 
by Aaron Swartz.


Robert C

On 7/1/14 7:47 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 5:36 PM, glen > wrote:


But, again, hyper-focus on how we vote is probably no better than
hyper-focus on how campaigns are funded.  If only there were some
way we could compose multiple mechanisms into some magic machine
and, oh I don't know, run it forward to see how it all works out,
then compare that machine to data taken from the world and tweak
the machine until it seems to work, then base our predictions off
that machine.  [sigh] Sounds like science fiction to me!

 Sound like history to me. Although there are a few things about our 
current situation that are unique enough to make it hard to draw 
comparisons.


-Arlo James Barnes



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Re: [FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Thanks guys for including the link at mayday.us!  Dunno why it didn't 
show in my original.  BTW for others the deadline for this crowd-funded 
campaign is July 4th!  I like the quote from one of the videos; I think 
it was something like: "95% of Americans believe there's too much 
special interest money in government.  91% believe we can't do anything 
about it: it's not true.";


Thanks
Robert

On 7/1/14 9:56 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

I pledged.  Tweeted.  Now it's down to hope!

 -- Owen


On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Russ Abbott <mailto:russ.abb...@gmail.com>> wrote:


If you haven't neard about it, it's Larry Lessig's Mayday.us
superpac <https://mayday.us/>. I pledged too. In fact, I have a
pledge page <https://my.mayday.us/t/80c9-Russ-Abbott/>. If you
want to pledge there I'd be honored.

/-- Russ Abbott/
/_/
/  Professor, Computer Science/
/  California State University, Los Angeles/

/**Google voice: 747-/999-5105;CS Dept.: 323-343-6690

**Google+: /http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott,/
/http://tinyurl.com/RussAbbott, or /
/http://google.com/+RussAbbottCa /
/  vita: /sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
<http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/>
/CS Wiki/ <http://cs.calstatela.edu/wiki/> and the courses I teach.
/  A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations
<http://philpapers.org/rec/ABBAAI>."
/
/  How the Fed can fix the economy (//2 pages)//:
ssrn.com/abstract=1977688 <http://ssrn.com/abstract=1977688>./
    /_/**


On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Robert J. Cordingley
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:

For US Citizens and Residents on this list, this might be of
interest - a super pac to beat all other super pacs!  I pledged.
Thanks
Robert C


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[FRIAM] How to reduce the influence of money in US politics!

[Robert J. Cordingley]

For US Citizens and Residents on this list, this might be of interest - 
a super pac to beat all other super pacs!  I pledged.

Thanks
Robert C


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Re: [FRIAM] student loans

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Some (US) people on this list with 'kids' (or may be even grandkids) 
might find this a worthy cause.


I signed a petition to The United States Senate which says:

"Last year Congress lowered interest rates for new student loans, but 
didn't help people stuck with older student loans at 6, 8, even 10% 
interest rates or higher. Please pass the Bank on Students Emergency 
Loan Refinancing Act. People should be able to refinance their student 
loans to today's lower rates. "


Will you sign this petition? Click here:

http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/let-people-refinance?source=s.em.mt&r_by=6263265

Thanks!
Robert C



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[FRIAM] Fwd: Kiss the internet goodbye?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

For others in this group that don't receive these notices and might have 
an interest in supporting MoveOn in this effort see below.

Thanks
Robert C


 Original Message 
Subject:Kiss the internet goodbye?
Date:   Thu, 15 May 2014 13:54:35 -0700
From: 	Maria Tchijov, MoveOn.org Political Action 


To: Robert Cordingley 



Breaking: The FCC just sided with Verizon and Comcast by voting on a 
proposal that would kill Net Neutrality. Now we have 60 days to secure 
the future of the Internet.


*Can you help stop the corporate takeover of the Internet by chipping in 
**$5 today?*


Chip in $5 
 



Dear MoveOn member,

Breaking news: The FCC just took the first step toward killing Net 
Neutrality, by moving ahead with a plan to divide the Internet into a 
fast lane for the 1% and a slow lane for the rest of us.^1


*But we can still win the fight for an open Internet.* MoveOn members 
and allies have already succeeded in getting a real solution on the 
table: to reclassify the Internet as a public utility like drinking 
water---making it equally accessible to all.^2 For the next 60 days the 
FCC will take public comments on the proposal. We have 60 days to win by 
doubling down on our campaign now.


*Can you chip in $5 today to ramp up our campaign to save the Internet? 
*


As FCC Commissioner Mignon Clyburn said, "the real call to action begins 
after the vote today. This is your opportunity to formally make your 
points on the record. You have the ear of the entire FCC."^3


And we're doing just that. *MoveOn members are literally in the streets 
at 19 local FCC offices across the country right now*---sending 
shockwaves through the FCC bureaucracy.


But to keep this campaign going for the next 60 days, we need to raise 
$150,000 to launch the next phase.


With the support of MoveOn members, we will:

 * *Drive phone calls to the White House* so that President Obama has
   to hold FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler accountable for his promise to
   protect Net Neutrality---building on the thousands of calls members
   have already made

 * *Launch a new round of ads* to raise awareness of what's at stake
   and continue to pressure President Obama and Chairman Wheeler

 * *Deliver thousands of public comments to the FCC in support of the
   real solution*---treating the Internet as a public utility

 * *Continue to amplify the more than 10,000 personal stories from
   MoveOn members* who would be hurt if the FCC adopts this plan

We know that corporations like Verizon and Comcast aren't going to sit 
this out. They will be deploying their lobbyists and putting their money 
behind killing Net Neutrality. But we have already proven that MoveOn 
members can fight back, if we do it together.


*We've come this far---can you chip in $5** to keep fighting for a free 
and open Internet? *


*Yes, I can contribute $5. 
*


Together we'll make sure the FCC feels enough sustained public pressure 
that there is no way they can kill Net Neutrality.


Thanks for all you do.

--Maria, Manny, Joan, Garlin, and the rest of the team

Sources:

1. "FCC approves plan to consider paid priority on Internet," /The 
Washington Post/, May 15, 2014

http://www.moveon.org/r/?r=298318&id=95788-24392895-IG9kttx&t=4

2. Ibid.

3. "FCC Votes For Plan To Kill Net Neutrality," Huffington Post, May 15, 
2014

_http://www.moveon.org/r/?r=298323&id=95788-24392895-IG9kttx&t=5 _

Want to support our work? We're entirely funded by our 8 million 
members---no corporate contributions, no big checks from CEOs. And our 
tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in here 
.



PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION, http://pol.moveon.org/. Not 
authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.



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Re: [FRIAM] SEO

[Robert J. Cordingley]

You can talk to the folks at WESST in Albuquerque and study their 
materials at:


http://www.wesst.org/business-toolkit/free-seo-tools/

and check out their consulting services at:

http://www.wesst.org/services/search-engine-optimization/

tho' they may not work with out of state businesses.  If not they may be 
able to recommend someone in SV.


Thanks
Robert

On 3/19/14 9:25 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
Do any of us have pointers for good Search Engine Optimization? 
Especially a professional outfit that is beyond the norm (which is 
close to spam!)


 A friend in Silicon Valley has started a business and is looking for 
help.


 -- Owen



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Re: [FRIAM] More on Spam

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Nick
You could try talking to Earthlink.net (See Support > Get Live Help 
now).  May be you saw this page:

http://support.earthlink.net/articles/email/e-mail-abuse.php##1
that might be helpful

Robert C

On 3/6/14 12:17 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Barry, and others,

Thanks, everybody, for taking my question seriously.  I will investigate 
Spamseive.  I get my email via a gmail account, a clark university account, and 
an earthlink account.   Everything forwards to the earthlink account.
Earthlink has its spam blocker which has served me pretty well up until the 
last few weeks, although I cannot get it to understand that If I send somebody 
a message, I would like to be able to receive the response.  Clark University 
has its own spam system, although it may be the case that messages to me bounce 
right off the server without ever passing through it.  Outlook is set to NOT 
open any images in a messages unless I tell it to.  In general, if I suspect 
that something is spam, I move it directly to my McAFee spam folder without 
opening it, although I don't know what, if anything, follows from that.  I 
assume that moving the message from one folder to another within Outlook does 
not provide any information to the spammer.

My very best wishes to you all,

Nick



Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 11:25 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] More on Spam

Are you using a Bayesian spam detector? I use one on the Mac called SpamSieve, 
and I used to use one on Windows called SpamBayes -- there was an Outlook 
plugin for it.

You need to train it by correcting its mistakes. Most of them will train 
themselves (mostly) by having you point them to a folder of good messages and a 
folder of spam. It looks like you will be able to do that.

The accuracy of my SpamSieve setup is very good; mine is at about 99%.

—Barry



On 6 Mar 2014, at 10:13, Nick Thompson wrote:


To any of you who are in an Advice-Giving Mood,



So, as I said, my Spam has tripled in the last few weeks.  I have been
assiduously accumulating spam messages I a folder and am now wondering
if there is anything I can do with them.  One obvious thing I might do
is click on the link that says, "Please don't send me any more
messages like this."
But, of course, I have been told to NEVER click on any link in a
message I suspect for any reason.  So, then I look the organization up
on the web, thinking that if the have a website that Earthlink's
WebAdvisor doesn't hate, maybe I am safe to click the opt out link,
but that takes a time, and, of course, the web message could always be
a spoof.  So, then I am back to doing nothing.



Anybody got better than nothing as a strategy?



Nick







Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/




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[FRIAM] English Spelling was Re: QRE: Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Robert J. Cordingley]

For more research into the origins of the Twain piece see The English 
Spelling Society;

http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j31/satires.php
and review the irregularities
http://www.spellingsociety.org/spelling/irregularities
Nick might like to join them
http://www.spellingsociety.org/membership/lists.php
and browse the Kids Corner
http://www.spellingsociety.org/kids/index.html
Robert C

On 2/24/14 12:24 PM, Tom Carter wrote:

Credited on the InterWeb to Mark Twain:

A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling:




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Re: [FRIAM] WhatsApp ... Death of SMS?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

So much technology for so much trivial and superficial purposes ... as 
similarly and amply portrayed (perhaps unintentionally) on Generation 
Like  (PBS 
Frontline 2) ... it's all about ads.


Robert C

On 2/22/14 1:33 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
Don't both iPhone and Android have built in alternatives that just use 
the network? A brief search showed iPhone had one.  SMS as a carrier 
service is so yesterday.



On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Christopher Koch 
mailto:christop...@reiswerk.de>> wrote:


Sorry to barge in like this, I've been just a lurker on this list
for years. Here I am writing something.

WhatsApp is very popular in Germany/Europe. On my last trip over
there I finally had to get it, too, just to communicate with
friends and family.

Facebook paid way too much money. The whole thing seems to be a
flop for Facebook though: I've been seeing campaigns --
ironically, on Facebook -- for deletion of WhatsApp because of
"privacy concerns." Seems it's already too late for that anyway,
and the advised replacement is Threema or in some rare instances
telegram.org .

On 02/22/2014 11:07 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

Here's a good clip on the deal:

WhatsApp has garnered over 450 million monthly active users
globally with 70% active on any given day, higher than the 62%
engagement rate Facebook Inc (NASDAQ:FB
) reported
last quarter. It facilitates more than 19 billion sent messages
and 34 billion received messages daily (a single message can be
sent to multiple people), which, according to Facebook Inc
(NASDAQ:FB
),
is similar to the size of the entire global SMS market.
WhatsApp's capabilities go well beyond text messages, with more
than 600 million photos uploaded per day and more than 200
million voice messages and 100 million video messages sent per day.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

The WhatsApp/FaceBook deal was a surprise for me, I simply
wasn't hip enough to even *know* about WhatsApp.

Well, it turns out its a replacement for SMS.  We folks in
the US don't use SMS which originated in the cellular system
early on as a way to get all of the third world able to
message *very* cheaply, thus have a reason to *buy* a cell
phone.  That's not the case here, SMS is an expensive monthly
or $.25 each.  USA.  Sigh.

So for what its worth, WhatsApp sneakily changed the SMS
madness (virtually free for cellular carriers due to using
180 free bytes in the control channel but heck why not rip
off customers) by making "messages" free.

Interesting.  So the entire world can now give the finger to
slimy cellular providers, but at the cost of joining yet
another "service" with all your personal information.  Oh
well, who cares.

Even more clever, FB figured out that this would greatly
enhance its service.  Be nice to see how they plan to
integrate it into FB, but still, at around 16Billion$.
 Basically they look at this as capturing the world wide
cellular network.

Apparently WhatsApp and FB have very different ideas on
privacy.  I bet the worst one wins.

Naturally anything this big is going to be the cyberslime
magnet, gold medal target.  Cant wait for the first billion
user leak.  And no, passwords won't help.  Not sure even
about 2-factor.

 -- Owen





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Re: [FRIAM] Android Phone Testing

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Update
FWIW: so my ZTE non-phone Android (no data plan, no SIM cards) showed up 
(from Singapore) yesterday allowing me to access web sites over my Wi-Fi 
and in a short time I'm able to debug remotely in Chrome browsers (MBP 
to ZTE).  The built in browser behaves not so well.


Robert C

On 1/6/14 10:44 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
Apparently, for $110 I can get an unlocked ZTE from Amazon see 
http://www.amazon.com/ZTE-V956-MSM8225Q-1-2GHz-Android/dp/B00D1VNENK?tag=at88-20 
Needs a SIM card to make it a phone so that's not a problem. Snags?




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Re: [FRIAM] Fascism?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I tend to think there's a left-wing totalitarianism and a right-wing 
totalitarianism, but since they are both police states they tend to be 
indistinguishable.  Fascism is a right wing route to totalitarianism.


Robert C

On 1/19/14 3:37 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
Interesting link about fascism from George Orwell. I think 
totalitarianism is the more general term, Hannah Arendt wrote a book 
about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

-J.

Sent from Android



 Original message 
From "Robert J. Cordingley" 
Date: 15/01/2014 20:39 (GMT+01:00)
To The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject Re: [FRIAM] Fascism?


In 1944 George Orwell wrote "What is Fascism" 
<http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc> . Has 
anything really changed - tho' the bit about Catholics seems a tad harsh?


On 1/15/14 10:17 AM, glen wrote:

On 01/14/2014 07:45 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

Berkeley, the center of uber-liberalism, has become, in it's collective
character and in it's specific approach to governing, quite fascist...
despite applying it to a very liberal agenda.

I think we've discussed this before, but perhaps only off list.  Now's
my chance to throw down the gauntlet publicly. ;-)

I don't think you're using the word "fascist" properly at all, here.  I
admit that _an_ essence of fascism is control.  And perhaps that's all
you mean... a kind of limited degrees of freedom due to an ensnaring web
of byzantine rules.  Toss in a good amount of shaming, political
correctness, hate speech constraints, etc. and I can see how the
environment you describe could be called tightly controlled.

But I don't think that's what most people mean by the word "fascist".
Although I can also admit that most of the people who _currently_ shout
"fascism" at the drop of a hat may well mean that.  So, perhaps the word
is newly defined (evolved) and you're using the new definition?

Traditionally (from the dictionary and other sources) I think fascism
requires:

o a fetish for the military, including paramilitary, and
war/battle/fighting,
o some sort of dictator/autocrat, and
o reliance on physical force, not merely verbal or psychological coercion.

I don't know Berkeley at all.  I do vaguely remember some news coverage
during the Occupy noise about a mayor of Berkeley tending towards more
use of police (dressed in very military looking gear).  So, it would be
easy for you to convince me that Berkeley has _become_ more fascist over
the years.  But it wouldn't be in correlation with uber-liberalism.  It
would (I think) correlate more with traditionally fascist aspects.


I can tell that I've miscommunicated significantly in this (and this
thread only?) thread...

Bah!  Cheers to miscommunication!  One of my favorite aphorisms is "The
problem with communication is the illusion that it exists."  I have no
idea who first said or and I've forgotten who I heard it from.  But it
always rings true to me.






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Re: [FRIAM] Amazon Patents “Anticipatory” Shipping — To Start Sending Stuff Before You’ve Bought It | TechCrunch

[Robert J. Cordingley]

This looks awfully like the traditional model of shipping from a 
warehouse to a local store/cache with it's own delivery service. The 
local store/cache carries oft purchased items in its market while less 
common orders will be back ordered.  May be I'm missing something.  
Patent denied!

Robert C

On 1/18/14 11:51 AM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

On 1/18/14, 11:07 AM, Tom Johnson wrote:


"Applied Complexity" at its best?

http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/18/amazon-pre-ships/?ncid=tcdaily

I can think of various analogues to this in computer science.  One is 
profile guided optimization, where instrumentation is added to a code 
so that it records where it has been.  Then those records are used to 
guide refinement of the compilation of the code so that it anticipates 
where it is likely to go.  For example, prefetching data, or setting 
branch probability hints in the code.   This is in some sense Amazon 
prefetching their deliveries so that they will be in cache (near the 
likely buyer) should the buyer actually ask for them.   Some advanced 
database systems (or just database administrators) do the same thing 
for large systems -- looking at who tends to use certain tables, and 
making sure those users are near their data.


Marcus



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Re: [FRIAM] [WedTech] Net neutrality?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I don't know.  Suppose AT&T, Verizon etc get into the travel business*.  
How easy do you suppose it would be to access Expedia*? The current 
issue appears to be about whether the FCC has jurisdiction over setting 
the rules for net neutrality.  Let's hope they get/claim it back so that 
big media moguls don't get to control every message via business 
arrangements with the carriers.  Perhaps net neutrality is actually a 
Free Speech issue that's way bigger than some yellow lines round some 
clinics entrances.


Robert
* or your business.

On 1/15/14 9:52 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
The real issue is not neutrality but QoS -- Quality of Service.  I 
*want* my heart surgeon to have higher bandwidth and lower latency 
than my TiVo/NetFlix.  QoS, both bandwidth and latency, needs to be 
properly doled out between the services that actually need it.


 -- Owen


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Gillian Densmore 
mailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com>> wrote:



http://www.popsci.com/article/gadgets/what-know-about-net-neutrality-ruling?src=SOC&dom=fb



___
Wedtech mailing list
wedt...@redfish.com 
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/wedtech_redfish.com





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Re: [FRIAM] Fascism?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

In 1944 George Orwell wrote "What is Fascism" 
 . Has 
anything really changed - tho' the bit about Catholics seems a tad harsh?


On 1/15/14 10:17 AM, glen wrote:

On 01/14/2014 07:45 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

Berkeley, the center of uber-liberalism, has become, in it's collective
character and in it's specific approach to governing, quite fascist...
despite applying it to a very liberal agenda.

I think we've discussed this before, but perhaps only off list.  Now's
my chance to throw down the gauntlet publicly. ;-)

I don't think you're using the word "fascist" properly at all, here.  I
admit that _an_ essence of fascism is control.  And perhaps that's all
you mean... a kind of limited degrees of freedom due to an ensnaring web
of byzantine rules.  Toss in a good amount of shaming, political
correctness, hate speech constraints, etc. and I can see how the
environment you describe could be called tightly controlled.

But I don't think that's what most people mean by the word "fascist".
Although I can also admit that most of the people who _currently_ shout
"fascism" at the drop of a hat may well mean that.  So, perhaps the word
is newly defined (evolved) and you're using the new definition?

Traditionally (from the dictionary and other sources) I think fascism
requires:

o a fetish for the military, including paramilitary, and
war/battle/fighting,
o some sort of dictator/autocrat, and
o reliance on physical force, not merely verbal or psychological coercion.

I don't know Berkeley at all.  I do vaguely remember some news coverage
during the Occupy noise about a mayor of Berkeley tending towards more
use of police (dressed in very military looking gear).  So, it would be
easy for you to convince me that Berkeley has _become_ more fascist over
the years.  But it wouldn't be in correlation with uber-liberalism.  It
would (I think) correlate more with traditionally fascist aspects.


I can tell that I've miscommunicated significantly in this (and this
thread only?) thread...

Bah!  Cheers to miscommunication!  One of my favorite aphorisms is "The
problem with communication is the illusion that it exists."  I have no
idea who first said or and I've forgotten who I heard it from.  But it
always rings true to me.




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Re: [FRIAM] used car advice?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

You could try Automotive Resources (http://arsantafeautorepair.com/).  
They used to be and may be still are the only AAA certified autoservice 
shop in Santa Fe.  I'm not sure what or if they'd charge for any second 
opinion.


Thanks
Robert

On 1/11/14 12:47 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

Yet another thread!
Based on what the last mechanic had said I'm now thinking a used car 
would be a good idea. In short the last guy had to fix it had said 
that the my Nisan has a few factory defects in the engine he's 
concerned about. Though he didn't elaborate. (that was pep boys)
Who on earth can I take the car to for a free (or cheep) second look, 
and at what point do I grumble even more and try to set aside some 
cash for some elk of used car.





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Re: [FRIAM] right vs left

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I think this works for awhile but since it's a positive feedback system 
(making the rules gets you more gold) it eventually  breaks or has to be 
intervened.  So when the revolution comes we know who will be first 
against the wall/sent to the guillotine/sent packing. Following an 
undetermined period it starts all over again (Chinese 
commu-plutocrats).  May be it even follows the prey-predator model? The 
question I have is where is America in the cycle?


Robert C

On 1/9/14 2:18 PM, glen wrote:

A better aphorism is "He who has the gold rules."




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Re: [FRIAM] Android Phone Testing

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hi Roger,
Not sure an emulator is a good approach - documentation also makes it 
look like a sledgehammer since I'm not into Android app development.  
And if I see a bug is it me, the emulated browser or the emulator?


Apparently, for $110 I can get an unlocked ZTE from Amazon see 
http://www.amazon.com/ZTE-V956-MSM8225Q-1-2GHz-Android/dp/B00D1VNENK?tag=at88-20 
Needs a SIM card to make it a phone so that's not a problem.  Snags?


Thanks
Robert


On 1/6/14 4:36 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
I'd try downloading the android emulator and testing them there, it's 
the least insane way to test different releases of android and 
different sizes of screens.  And it's free for the time you spend 
figuring out how to make it work.  I believe the release packages will 
give you a browser and the means to install browsers from Google/Play, 
though I can't say I ever tried.


-- rec --


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Robert J. Cordingley 
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:


I'd like to test/access websites on an Android phone over my own
wifi (Airport Extreme).  I don't need a dataplan nor phone service
for it.  Does anyone have any good suggestions for an economical
option and are there any technical issues?

Thanks
Robert C


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[FRIAM] Android Phone Testing

[Robert J. Cordingley]

I'd like to test/access websites on an Android phone over my own wifi 
(Airport Extreme).  I don't need a dataplan nor phone service for it.  
Does anyone have any good suggestions for an economical option and are 
there any technical issues?


Thanks
Robert C


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Re: [FRIAM] weather meditation tool

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Click on 'earth' for controls/options and about.  You probably found 
this already.

Robert C

On 1/2/14 10:18 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
Wow.  What exactly is that?  Isobars or Wind for the planet played for 
the last hour or so?



On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Roger Critchlow > wrote:



http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-194.94,91.32,295


-- rec --


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Re: [FRIAM] Firefox updates

[Robert J. Cordingley]

FWIW I'm now on v26 with no problems, but I don't access Gmail (tested 
ok today) or eBay with it.

Robert C
+Mac OSX 10.8.5


On 12/11/13 10:56 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

Greetings fellow technomancers,
The tittle is incomplete:

I don't know if this has happend to anyone else: after Firefox just 
recently has attempted to update, it hasn't worked consistently. Quite 
a few people are reporting issues to mozzilas tech support. It's a 
long spectrum of issues that've been reported by other users to to 
firefox. It seems to cover Gmail crashing the browser to duplicate 
bids on ebay
If anyone else has been hit with this I'm curius what they've done to 
solve it.
I'm  not sure what veQ is causing some combination of firefox and a 
variety of webpages to become incompatible. for pure havok this 
gremlin has great timing.
My only hackish workaround so far has been to uninstall, and go back 
to version 20 of firefox, and also tell firefox not to update.






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Re: [FRIAM] Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance

[Robert J. Cordingley]

You might find the IRS Topic 762 - Independent Contractor vs. Employee 
useful at:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762.html
It says it was updated in October this year so hopefully any ACA impacts 
have been applied.  Some links to pdf docs provide expanded info.  
However this tends to approach the issue from the other end: if you 
provide certain benefits like medical insurance you are (probably) an 
employer not whether the law says you have to provide such benefits.

Thanks
Robert C



On 12/6/13 10:39 AM, glen e. p. ropella wrote:

However, sometimes the people you think are independent contractors
actually aren't (determined by audit or by filing a request with the IRS
and/or your state).  As I understand it, if these people are determined
to be employees, then you are an employer and the rules about providing
health insurance plans for part- and/or full-time employees apply to
you, whether or not you've incorporated.

On 12/06/2013 06:34 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:

IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and
not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors,
then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no
employment benefits.  But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local
friendly employment lawyer.
Robert C

On 12/5/13 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:

This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask.  Let's assume that
I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not
incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone
know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them?



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Re: [FRIAM] Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance

[Robert J. Cordingley]

IMHO. You would presumably be doing business as a sole proprietor and 
not as a corporation and would hire them as independent contractors, 
then I think the answer is no, because their contract will bestow no 
employment benefits.  But I am not an attorney, so I'd consult my local 
friendly employment lawyer.

Robert C

On 12/5/13 11:26 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask.  Let's assume that 
I as an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not 
incorporate; I just hire them individual to individual. Does anyone 
know if the law requires me to provide health insurance for them?




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Re: [FRIAM] Most Distant Galaxy - What's wrong with this statement?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Meanwhile, I still want to know what space-time was expanding relative to!
Robert C

On 10/25/13 12:21 PM, Steve Smith wrote:



1,799,884,800,000 f/f give or take, in a vacuum.

Robert C
Terran fortnight, Martian or registered with Betelgeuse 5?  And in 
*some STATES!* apparently there is in use an archaic measure for the 
furlong  which varies by .02 %  which I suppose is within your 
precision and the "give or take"...  I'm guessing the furlong is still 
10 chains, 220 yards but their chains or yards vary?  The wear on the 
end of the "chains" could account for more error than that, not to 
mention manufacturing variation!


"The nice thing about standards is that we have so many to choose 
from"

- Andy Tanenbaum, creator of Minix.

Andy is also known for:
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 
tapes hurtling down the highway."


But I think it needs to be updated to Minivan or 9 passenger SUV.


In the spirit of "will it blend?" and "how much is a buttload?"  I 
have to ask, what is the speed of light in "furlongs per fortnight?"


- Steve
So it sounds like during the expansion phase a lightyear was still 
a lightyear but growing bigger?  If you were there how would you 
tell?  My platinum standard meter bar is now a longer but still 
standard meter bar?  Has time dilated as well?  If so what does the 
age of 13.5by mean?  In what dimensions could you measure these 
changes?  [Confusion may be an understatement.]


Robert C

On 10/24/13 10:12 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space:

"Because of the changing rate of expansion, it is also possible 
for a distance to exceed the value calculated by multiplying the 
speed of light by the age of the universe. These details are a 
frequent source of confusion among amateurs and even professional 
physicists."


-- rec --


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Robert J. Cordingley 
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:


Regardless of the poetic 'outer edges' is it possible what
might be meant is in the context of a hyperspherical universe
where the radius is time and is 13.5 by? The center being when
the big bang occurred.  Then the furthest object would be
diametrically opposite and hypercircumferentially at 13.5*pi
bly or 42.4 bly away?  So in the 'now' being at 30bly away is
chicken feed.

Robert C.


On 10/24/13 9:20 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

Where is "the outer edge of the Universe" and what sort of
observation would locate something there?  All that the
original report in Nature established was redshift (7.51),
age (700 Myr after the Big Bang), and a surprising rate of
star formation (330 solar masses / year).

-- rec --


> > >  From the BBC at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890
> > > (today)
> > >
> > > /Because it takes light so long to travel from the
outer edge of the
> > > Universe to us, the galaxy appears as it was 13.1
billion years ago (its
> > > distance from Earth of 30 billion light-years is
because the Universe is
> > > expanding)./




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Re: [FRIAM] Most Distant Galaxy - What's wrong with this statement?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

1,799,884,800,000 f/f give or take, in a vacuum.

Robert C

On 10/25/13 11:37 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
In the spirit of "will it blend?" and "how much is a buttload?"  I 
have to ask, what is the speed of light in "furlongs per fortnight?"


- Steve
So it sounds like during the expansion phase a lightyear was still a 
lightyear but growing bigger?  If you were there how would you tell?  
My platinum standard meter bar is now a longer but still standard 
meter bar?  Has time dilated as well?  If so what does the age of 
13.5by mean?  In what dimensions could you measure these changes?  
[Confusion may be an understatement.]


Robert C

On 10/24/13 10:12 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space:

"Because of the changing rate of expansion, it is also possible for 
a distance to exceed the value calculated by multiplying the speed 
of light by the age of the universe. These details are a frequent 
source of confusion among amateurs and even professional physicists."


-- rec --


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Robert J. Cordingley 
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:


Regardless of the poetic 'outer edges' is it possible what might
be meant is in the context of a hyperspherical universe where
the radius is time and is 13.5 by?  The center being when the
big bang occurred.  Then the furthest object would be
diametrically opposite and hypercircumferentially at 13.5*pi bly
or 42.4 bly away?  So in the 'now' being at 30bly away is
chicken feed.

Robert C.


On 10/24/13 9:20 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

Where is "the outer edge of the Universe" and what sort of
observation would locate something there?  All that the
original report in Nature established was redshift (7.51), age
(700 Myr after the Big Bang), and a surprising rate of star
formation (330 solar masses / year).

-- rec --


> > >  From the BBC at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890
> > > (today)
> > >
> > > /Because it takes light so long to travel from the
outer edge of the
> > > Universe to us, the galaxy appears as it was 13.1
billion years ago (its
> > > distance from Earth of 30 billion light-years is
because the Universe is
> > > expanding)./




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Re: [FRIAM] Most Distant Galaxy - What's wrong with this statement?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

So it sounds like during the expansion phase a lightyear was still a 
lightyear but growing bigger?  If you were there how would you tell?  My 
platinum standard meter bar is now a longer but still standard meter 
bar?  Has time dilated as well?  If so what does the age of 13.5by 
mean?  In what dimensions could you measure these changes?  [Confusion 
may be an understatement.]


Robert C

On 10/24/13 10:12 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space:

"Because of the changing rate of expansion, it is also possible for a 
distance to exceed the value calculated by multiplying the speed of 
light by the age of the universe. These details are a frequent source 
of confusion among amateurs and even professional physicists."


-- rec --


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Robert J. Cordingley 
mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com>> wrote:


Regardless of the poetic 'outer edges' is it possible what might
be meant is in the context of a hyperspherical universe where the
radius is time and is 13.5 by?  The center being when the big bang
occurred.  Then the furthest object would be diametrically
opposite and hypercircumferentially at 13.5*pi bly or 42.4 bly
away?  So in the 'now' being at 30bly away is chicken feed.

Robert C.


On 10/24/13 9:20 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

Where is "the outer edge of the Universe" and what sort of
observation would locate something there?  All that the original
report in Nature established was redshift (7.51), age (700 Myr
after the Big Bang), and a surprising rate of star formation (330
solar masses / year).

-- rec --


> > >  From the BBC at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890
> > > (today)
> > >
> > > /Because it takes light so long to travel from the
outer edge of the
> > > Universe to us, the galaxy appears as it was 13.1
billion years ago (its
> > > distance from Earth of 30 billion light-years is
because the Universe is
> > > expanding)./




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Re: [FRIAM] Most Distant Galaxy - What's wrong with this statement?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Regardless of the poetic 'outer edges' is it possible what might be 
meant is in the context of a hyperspherical universe where the radius is 
time and is 13.5 by?  The center being when the big bang occurred.  Then 
the furthest object would be diametrically opposite and 
hypercircumferentially at 13.5*pi bly or 42.4 bly away?  So in the 'now' 
being at 30bly away is chicken feed.


Robert C.

On 10/24/13 9:20 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
Where is "the outer edge of the Universe" and what sort of observation 
would locate something there?  All that the original report in Nature 
established was redshift (7.51), age (700 Myr after the Big Bang), and 
a surprising rate of star formation (330 solar masses / year).


-- rec --


> > >  From the BBC at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890
> > > (today)
> > >
> > > /Because it takes light so long to travel from the outer
edge of the
> > > Universe to us, the galaxy appears as it was 13.1 billion
years ago (its
> > > distance from Earth of 30 billion light-years is because the
Universe is
> > > expanding)./




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[FRIAM] Most Distant Galaxy - What's wrong with this statement?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

From the BBC at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890 
(today)


/Because it takes light so long to travel from the outer edge of the 
Universe to us, the galaxy appears as it was 13.1 billion years ago (its 
distance from Earth of 30 billion light-years is because the Universe is 
expanding)./


Robert C

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Re: [FRIAM] This is a Real War: Samsung pays Apple $1 Billion Sending 30 Trucks Full of 5 Cent Coins | TCGeeks

[Robert J. Cordingley]

This is worth watching again:
http://www.ted.com/talks/drew_curtis_how_i_beat_a_patent_troll.html
Thanks
Robert C

On 7/9/13 12:34 PM, Barry MacKichan wrote:
The killer with software patents is that to contest a patent 
infringement suit is at least a $1 million. That means that trolls can 
sue anyone as long as their case looks remotely plausible to an 
non-techie judge, and as long as the "back-royalties" are less than a 
million, the sued party has to roll over and pay. Notice that guilt or 
innocence or diligent patent searches play no role in this calculus.



--Barry




On Jul 9, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


I think I'm generally against software patents.  But copyright is far 
more abused .. it can be extended virtually forever.  Some protection 
is fine, but too much is oppressive.







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Re: [FRIAM] [WedTech] JavaScript GUI Libraries

[Robert J. Cordingley]

In the interests of the medical clinic I wonder what packages are 
already out there that lead or support standards in EMR 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_medical_record>and for a 
successful project how one would best align one's goals with theirs?

Robert C

On 7/2/13 8:39 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

Point well taken about esoteric and cool versus pragmatic and well worn. The 
most certain route in software, like in most undertakings, is usually the 
familiar. The problem with the familiar is that many on the list, including 
those of us who are ourselves well worn (at least worn), are enamored with 
(might I go as far as to say addicted?) to the cool and esoteric, whether it be 
software tech, complexity science, philosophy, politics... So, I'm not just 
looking for a solution, I'm looking for a fix :-)  However, I was honest with 
my stakeholders and let them know that I'm being a bit selfish, in that I'm not 
doing this not just for them, but for me, using it as a justification for 
spending the time to learn some new stuff. The easiest implementation would 
likely be a traditional two-tier client server system, with the GUI and 
application logic done with Visual Basic talking to a MySQL server. Nothing 
wrong with that, maybe I'll even consider it when I grow up :-)

;; Gary

On Jul 1, 2013, at 11:20 PM, Robert J. Cordingley  wrote:


Then you might consider who's going to maintain it when your not available and 
what level of skill may be needed.  Esoteric and cool is... well esoteric and 
cool.  Pragmatic and well worn and well known might lead you to consider more 
mundane but well used tools especially on the server side like PHP and MySQL 
and perhaps WordPress and the thousands of themes and plugins.  Many WP themes 
are responsive/mobile friendly right out of the box saving tons of work - some 
premium some free.

Thanks
Robert C


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Re: [FRIAM] [WedTech] JavaScript GUI Libraries

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Then you might consider who's going to maintain it when your not 
available and what level of skill may be needed.  Esoteric and cool 
is... well esoteric and cool.  Pragmatic and well worn and well known 
might lead you to consider more mundane but well used tools especially 
on the server side like PHP and MySQL and perhaps WordPress and the 
thousands of themes and plugins.  Many WP themes are responsive/mobile 
friendly right out of the box saving tons of work - some premium some free.


Thanks
Robert C

On 7/1/13 9:11 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
One thing to consider is "mobile" .. i.e. do you want this to work 
across a wide range of devices: phones, tablets, laptops etc.  If so, 
you'll need to consider various options for "responsive design", .. 
i.e a design that automatically adjusts to the device and its screen 
size.  Ditto for "touch" vs "mouse" (good libraries for that).


If not, there are a few of us (Ben L. for example) who've used Angular 
for a nice interface, including event binding and UI elements .. which 
he integrated with Firebase (a web service syncing events and JSON 
data across devices, very cool indeed).


You'll also need to consider the whole client/server thing .. how much 
do you want to do on the client vs how much on the server.  I've been 
amazed recently how nifty nodejs is.  I've had to use it for desktop 
use recently, and am surprised how sophisticated it is.  Ex: I've 
replaced Make with Cake (a coffeescript/node stunt that gives you 
pretty nice workflow tools).


DB, an issue, right?  Firebase can help for fairly simply DBish tasks 
.. think of JSON in the cloud.  SimTable is successfully using it. 
 And there is a Node/CouchDB library.


Finally, if you really want to go hyper modern, consider JS all the 
way.  And a good tool is CoffeeScript which compiles down to JS and is 
completely integrated into Node.  Your code size (Lines of Code) will 
be about 1/3 native JS.


 -- Owen


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Gary Schiltz 
mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote:


I'm starting to develop (as an unpaid volunteer) an application
for the local medical clinic, and I'd like to deploy it as a
browser application ("rich internet app"). Of course, I cold just
use plain old HTML and CSS, but I'd like it to be much more
interactive, basically like a desktop application. It would seem
the best (for some definition of good :-) technology for the job
would be JavaScript on the front-end (although I could do it in
Java with Swing or JavaFX and deliver it as a JNLP app). Anyway,
does anyone here have any preferences for a GUI toolkit for
JavaScript? So far, I've been looking at Dojo, JQuery, YUI, Ext
JS, and the Google Closure library. As I'm pretty new to the whole
JS world, I'm thoroughly confused (maybe that means that I'm on
the right track :-). I'd really appreciate feedback.
___
Wedtech mailing list
wedt...@redfish.com 
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Re: [FRIAM] Obama on NSA Surveillance

[Robert J. Cordingley]

And then from May 15 Google's added PHP runtime to their App Engine: 
http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/15/google-opens-up-powerful-aws-competitor-compute-engine-to-all/ 
How horrifying is that?


Robert C

On 6/18/13 2:52 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:


It does seem that the internet ecosystem is settling down rather 
nicely, with emphasis on standards (HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, RDF 
(maybe)). Personally, I'm a Lisp fan, and these days it's possible to 
use Clojure server-side (it compiled to JVM byte code) and 
ClojureScript client-side (it compiles via Google Closure to 
optimized, minimized JavaScript). But then, paraphrasing a popular 
Ruby article from half a dozen years ago, I can see how "JavaScript is 
an Acceptable Lisp". And with a more open ecosystem, I don't have to 
choose what is an "Acceptable Lisp", but write in whatever language 
that gets compiled to HTML, CSS, JavaScript, RDF.


;; Gary




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Re: [FRIAM] API alternative?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

What about doorway?  Some doors are easily opened, some require a key, 
some open up to a new world.  Depending on the audience (the suggestions 
was it was for lay people) the allegories may work quite well.


Robert C

On 5/10/13 11:55 PM, Saul Caganoff wrote:
I prefer the term "service" as in service-oriented architecture but 
unfortunately that term has become so aligned with the nightmare 
complexity of web-services that the term is distinctly unfashionable. 
But a standalone, autonomous, platform-neutral, re-usable, 
location-independent function is a service - regardless of whether is 
it REST or SOAP or CORBA or whatever.


API has come to mean a publicly exposed function (or set of functions) 
that are usually REST, but sometimes SOAP and usually some form of XML 
or JSON over HTTP. These APIs are nonetheless services.


I've seen endpoint used as a synonym of API, but within the SOA 
paradigm and endpoint is an instance of a service running at some 
physical location specified by a URL. So two instances of the same 
service (e.g. weather forecast) might be available at two endpoints.


Protocol is more problematic since it is used in a lot of places to 
mean a lot of things. I'd prefer not to overlay it even more as a 
synonym for API or service.


Regards,
Saul




On 11 May 2013 00:22, Grant Holland > wrote:


Each of these terms (API, protocol, endpoint) often connotes
different expectations about the relationships and
responsibilities of the participants. For example, is there
expected to be asymmetric responsibilities (e.g. client-server)
between them?, What about any implied "contract" between them?
What about cardinality (APIs are generally one-to-one, whereas
endpoints may be many-to-one, e.g publish and subscribe). What
about the potential for concurrency?

So there are many considerations and properties that each of these
may imply or for which there may be differentiating expectations
based upon the milieu in which each originated (OOP, network
communications, distributed objects, etc.).

In other words, the usage of these terms is not really
interchangeable.


On 5/10/13 8:09 AM, glen e p ropella wrote:

On 05/10/2013 07:04 AM, Stephen Guerin wrote:

I'm seeing a rise in the use of "endpoints". Eg REST, SOAP
and WMS endpoints

Do you mean in the sense of leaves of a graph?




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--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: +61 410 430 809
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff



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Re: [FRIAM] the Engineering deck on the Enterprise..

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Apparently it's more than a resemblance...

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/star-trek-boldly-goes-unlikely-real-life-locations-153158175.html
(paras 5/6)

Thanks
Robert

On 5/18/13 7:16 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

Hi,

If you're prone to attending Star Trek movies, note how this facility 
bears a remarkable resemblance to the Engineering deck on the latest 
Enterprise..


https://lasers.llnl.gov/multimedia/photo_gallery/target_area/?id=3&category=target_area 



I understand this `warp core' is a work in progress...

Marcus


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Re: [FRIAM] Web meets Print

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Hey Marcus
Thanks for the pointers which I will look at closely.  So far, they 
indicate to me that this is not a trivial task!

Robert C

On 5/11/13 9:30 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

On 5/11/13 9:22 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
I want to server-side generate a report from a database, 
automatically paginate it and prepare a table of contents ready for 
printing.  I'm scripting in PHP against a MySQL database.  I already 
generate the report in HTML/CSS for presentation on a web page where 
browser printing leaves much to be desired anyway. Content includes 
styled text and images.  I don't know ahead of time how much text 
will be provided by the database or the sizes of any images which are 
served by URLs. The final document can be of the order of 100-200 pages.



If LaTeX is too unstructured, DocBook might work for you.

http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/docbook.html

Pandoc is a powerful converter from there..

http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

It might be too optimistic to convert your existing HTML to LaTeX, but 
it might be worth a try.


Marcus


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[FRIAM] Web meets Print

[Robert J. Cordingley]

There seem to be frustratingly few resources and tools to help with what 
seems like a relatively simple and common word processing need.


I want to server-side generate a report from a database, automatically 
paginate it and prepare a table of contents ready for printing.  I'm 
scripting in PHP against a MySQL database.  I already generate the 
report in HTML/CSS for presentation on a web page where browser printing 
leaves much to be desired anyway.  Content includes styled text and 
images.  I don't know ahead of time how much text will be provided by 
the database or the sizes of any images which are served by URLs.  The 
final document can be of the order of 100-200 pages.


Any suggestions or recommendations?
Thanks
Robert Cordingley


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[FRIAM] PHPLint

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Quick question... Does anyone have any experience/success compiling and 
running PHPLint  on Mac OSX 
(Mountain Lion)? Are there alternatives?


Thanks
Robert C


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[FRIAM] Splitting? was Re: How do forces work?

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Some (semi-serious) suggestions around how to split the list (use 
subgroups):


Philosophy
Physics of Quanta and the Continuum
Phunny stuff
Phuture trends in sociology/crowd sourcing/etc.
Sophtware
oh and... Complexity and ABM

Seems neither Mailman (the current listserv) nor Google Groups support 
subgroups tho'.  FWIW, Lsoft's Listserve might, see 
http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/maestro/4.0/htmlhelp/data%20administrator/ClassicLSListTargetGroups.html 
- where they are called Target Groups.


Robert C


On 4/20/13 10:47 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Stephen Guerin 
mailto:stephen.gue...@redfish.com>>wrote:


Aya, it turns out Bruce recently unsubscribed from FRIAM. I hope
you guys on the list are happy with your signal to noise ratio ;-)
   Just kidding...keep it up.


OT, but:  I think we failed a test.  Maybe we should split the list? 
 Or use wedtech exclusively for physics, programming, etc?


I now simply don't know who is on what list, nor what their interests 
are.  I'm sure Russ wanted Bruce's post, right?


 -- Owen




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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: 7 Billion World - 7 billion people on 1 page

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Oh wait, I'm the one with the red tie on holding hands with the guy with 
a blue tie on.  What number am I?

Robert C

On 4/14/13 9:17 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:

How do I find which one is me!
Robert C
(snicker)

On 4/14/13 9:04 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

From Twitter by David Brin, retweeted by Lessig:
http://www.7billionworld.com/
.. Don't forget the page scrolls both directions!

Nice way to get an idea just how big a billion is!

 -- Owen




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