Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:53 PM, MaGioZal wrote: On 1/23/10 10:41 AM, Mac User #330250 at macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: My experience is different, since all the Macs I have make a lot of noise. The most silent Power Mac I own is the G5 Late 2005 which has liquid cooling (even though it is the 2.0 GHz single processor (Dual Core) model -- I've read contrary information at everymac.com about the cooling system). Well, my Beige G3 is quite silent, mainly now when it has a 80GB ATA Maxtor HD. The former HD, a 9.1GB Ultra-SCSI IBM, oinked like a mad pig. :-P The iMac DV is quieter :P -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:38 PM, MaGioZal wrote: On 1/24/10 1:55 PM, Dan at dantear...@gmail.com wrote: Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! Apple is somehow schizo in its CPU designs: or it made them VERY EASY to open and upgrade (Centris 660/PowerMac 6100, LC I/II/III/Performa 475, PowerMac 8600/PowerMac Beige G3, Mac G4 Cube, Blue and White G3 and all other minitower CPUs before the G5) or TERRIBILY DIFFICULT to open and upgrade (the original 128k and all other compact all-in-one Macs based on it, the Quadra 840/PowerMac8100/PowerMac 8500, the PowerMac 4400/7220 series, all iMacs in general, MacMinis). The iMac G3 slot-loaders arent hard to open, not as easy as the PowerMacs, but a lot easier than the tray loaders... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
$ problems seems to be the underlying reason in the majority of statements in this thread. Otherwise I suspect most of us would buy new Macs and not regret the move. well, unexpected tax return this year (loss of income took me down a tax bracket) equals a brand new mac mini on my desk. base model, but boy... nice step up from my QS, which I may try to trade for a G4 mini to use on my workbench in the basement for googling and interweb radio ;) (might even try to find an old EyeTV for it) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Montag 15 Februar 2010N From:MaGioZal magio...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On 1/21/10 6:51 PM, Jonas Ulrich at jonasulrich3...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. But on the other side Tiger is still quite usable. It is my everyday OS here, runnning on a non-upgraded Beige G3. By now, the only major softwares that don' run on Tiger that I miss are the newest version of iTunes and Google Chrome. You can add the newest version of QuickTime. Slowly but truely it will become more Applications that don't work on the PowerPC platform in their newer versions. Mozilla is planning to drop Tiger support with their planned 4.0 release... Hopefully Camino will stay in business for the old stuff that is still useful. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Montag 15 Februar 2010N From:MaGioZal magio...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com YouTube videos here are COMPLETELY out of sync, even when they'e completely downloaded. :-/ Doesn't have anything to do with streaming - the processor just cannot calculate that much because, let's face it, Flash is simply not written to work on so slow machines. If they had wanted it, they would have accomplished it. (They meaning Adobe in this context.) Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 2/14/10 9:38 PM, MaGioZal wrote: Apple is somehow schizo in its CPU designs: or it made them VERY EASY to open and upgrade (Centris 660/PowerMac 6100, LC I/II/III/Performa 475, PowerMac 8600/PowerMac Beige G3, Mac G4 Cube, Blue and White G3 and all other minitower CPUs before the G5) or TERRIBILY DIFFICULT to open and upgrade (the original 128k and all other compact all-in-one Macs based on it, the Quadra 840/PowerMac8100/PowerMac 8500, the PowerMac 4400/7220 series, all iMacs in general, MacMinis). And possibly the most schizo of all, the 7500 and 8500. Both have the same motherboard, the 7500 is a dream to work on, open it up, flip the card slot cover open and lift up the drive / PS chassis and everything is accessable. As opposed to the 8500 where the case is okay to take off but to change memory you need to unplug all the connections to and remove the logic board. I like to think of it as the good case designers vs the evil case designers. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/21/10 6:51 PM, Jonas Ulrich at jonasulrich3...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. But on the other side Tiger is still quite usable. It is my everyday OS here, runnning on a non-upgraded Beige G3. By now, the only major softwares that don' run on Tiger that I miss are the newest version of iTunes and Google Chrome. -- MaGioZal, watching Carnaval on TV. http://twitpic.com/photos/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/21/10 7:12 PM, Mac User #330250 at macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: But then... I love the Power Mac/Mac Pro aluminium case. It is beautiful but still functional and an do-it-yourself-hardware-upgraders' dream... And you can left one of the sides visible from the inside...;-) -- MaGioZal. http://facebook.com/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Why? 'Cause they rock. 'Nuff said. Felix -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/22/10 7:41 PM, Dan at dantear...@gmail.com wrote: All my Macs, that run System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Panther, and Tiger, are still running. They didn't suddenly gak the other day. The only BIG problem for these older OSes is web surfing. :-/ -- MaGioZal. http://twitter.com/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/22/10 7:41 PM, Dan at dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At home, I think it's pretty stupid to dedicate a $1000+ computer to play streaming radio and drive a scanner. But for YouTube videos, it is very hard to handle them in older computers. :-/ -- MaGioZal. http://twitpic.com/photos/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/23/10 10:41 AM, Mac User #330250 at macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: My experience is different, since all the Macs I have make a lot of noise. The most silent Power Mac I own is the G5 Late 2005 which has liquid cooling (even though it is the 2.0 GHz single processor (Dual Core) model -- I've read contrary information at everymac.com about the cooling system). Well, my Beige G3 is quite silent, mainly now when it has a 80GB ATA Maxtor HD. The former HD, a 9.1GB Ultra-SCSI IBM, oinked like a mad pig. :-P -- MaGioZal. http://flickr.com/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/23/10 11:37 AM, Lawrence David Eden at lde...@comcast.net wrote: I watch videos on the internet...voice and video are a little out of sync. YouTube videos here are COMPLETELY out of sync, even when they'e completely downloaded. :-/ -- MaGioZal. http://formspring.me/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/23/10 2:38 PM, Da'Birdman at sa...@defalcos.com wrote: I find Tiger performs noticeably faster than Panther. Believe me, sometimes I feel Tiger as quick (or as slow...:-P) as Jaguar on my Beige G3. -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/23/10 3:36 PM, Mac User #330250 at macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: GIMP is nice. I prefer GraphicConverter 5.9.5 on the Smurf. I'll check it out. But I'm guessing that GraphicConverter isn't free... ...but is completely usable in its shareware version. Well, you'll get a annoying hang-on startup screen, but this is very little compared with the capabilities of this software. Anyway, GC is the one of the few sharewares I think is worth paying for. And as of 2010, they still support Mac OS 9 and PowerPC. -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
My G4 (DA) 800 plays iTunes movies well and plays non-HD youtube videos fine. The TV seems like a good choice for iTunes too and maybe beyond.(I think you can get youtube vids to play on it or at least export them with QT Pro) It's only $230! Less if you get one refurbished! I'm probably going to get an TV. At least I can enjoy all my iTunes goodness in 100% cool and I'll be almost at the full intel Mac status. -Mike On Feb 14, 11:40 pm, MaGioZal magio...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/22/10 7:41 PM, Dan at dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At home, I think it's pretty stupid to dedicate a $1000+ computer to play streaming radio and drive a scanner. But for YouTube videos, it is very hard to handle them in older computers. :-/ -- MaGioZal. http://twitpic.com/photos/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I use a Power Mac G4 because I can afford it, it is very attractive and it is very stable. In fact a friend of mine who works with them in a professional capacity at a print shop and she said in their experience in the art room their old G4 Power Macs are more consistently reliable then their Brand new Intel Macs. That seems like good enough reasons for me. On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:13 PM, MaGioZal magio...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/23/10 3:36 PM, Mac User #330250 at macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: One thing is certain though: Intel gave the Macs the performance boost to compete the PCs again. I don't blame Apple for that. It just would have been nice of Apple to extend support for Tiger (Classic) and Leopard (Mac OS X on PowerPC) due to this. Do you remember the Run to the GigaHertz in early 2000s? As far as I can remember Apple had to wait almost 2 years before launching a GigaHertz-processor machine, and this was a great marketing blow for Steve Jobs' company. -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/25/10 7:05 PM, coolr...@comcast.net at coolr...@comcast.net wrote: I know someday I'll have to upgrade to Intel just as I had to upgrade from OS9 a few years ago but for now everything is working. As Bruce quoted the old axiom, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Another thing to consider is that older Macs are quite cheap and you feel more comfortable to open and hack trough it...;-) -- MaGioZal. http://fotolog.com/_magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/30/10 1:04 PM, JoeTaxpayer at joetaxpaye...@gmail.com wrote: The G4 is friendly to upgrades. Maxed out the memory to 2GB. For $10 added a USB 2.0 card. Easy to add Hard Drives as I catch them getting cheaper and cheaper. That' what a like in minitower CPUs. Think about the fact that a first-generation iBook will be locked forever on slow USB 1.1... And a 800x600 screen. -- MaGioZal. http://formspring.me/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 1/30/10 1:31 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio at fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: $ problems seems to be the underlying reason in the majority of statements in this thread. Otherwise I suspect most of us would buy new Macs and not regret the move. My intention is to buy a brand-new Intel MacBook, but let my current day-by-day computer (a Beige G3 with 640MB RAM/80GB HD with Tiger and OS 9/Samsung DVD writer) still funcioning as a backup/internet server machine. -- MaGioZal. http://youtube.com/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: [G3-5]Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
= So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? Because I would like to buy a brnd-new Intel Mac, but I still have to get the money to do that. And because with my Tiger-running Beige G3 I can most of the applications made for Mac OS X and Mac OS classic. That's it. -- MaGioZal. http://facebook.com/magiozal/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I use an older Mac because: 1) I'm not a gamer 2) I'm not editing video 3) It still does what I want it to do with little trouble 4) There are inexpensive ways to improve its performance if needed 5) I'm not: a trust fund baby, otherwise wealthy, or someone who prefers having the coolest Mac to having decent food shelter -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Good timing for this question. Forgive my long-winded answer. I bought a G4 1.25GHz MDD new, over 7 years ago. 2 years ago, my family insisted on a family room computer, and wanted a PC. $600, Vista #fail. 'nuff said. I found my workhorse G4 on ebay for sub $200, and bought it for the family about a year ago. Plug and play. My wife and daughter hit print and it prints to my home office printer. It runs the software to sync TV shows off our TiVos so my daughter can either watch on her iPod or burn to DVD. It hosts her iTunes library. It drives two monitors so I'm looking at 2 24in screens as I type this. It runs Leopard like a champ, bringing all the features that came with 10.5. I. Love. My. G4s. As others wrote, I'm not a gamer either. I do some video encoding and that's where you can see the performance hit. But. When I have a video I want to encode for TV viewing, it may take 4 hours to encode an hour of video. It's not like a new Mac will do this in under an hour, more likely 2 or so. So for this single use case, the new machine still won't help when my wife wants to see a show that not encoded yet. Either way it takes planning and an earlier or overnight process. I'm just saying for the one thing a new machine will do better, I'm still loving my old ones. The G4 is friendly to upgrades. Maxed out the memory to 2GB. For $10 added a USB 2.0 card. Easy to add Hard Drives as I catch them getting cheaper and cheaper. When you look at Performance per dollar, I dare say the G4 MDD Macs are at the peak of that curve. I understand, support will start to fade over time, but I ask you, not as a PC user whom you might want to evangelize a Mac to, but as a happy Leopard user, with now 4 of these G4s around the house, what is your compelling reason for me to make the switch? (On the other hand - I drool over the iPad. I plan to buy it as soon as I can go to the Apple store and wait less than 2 hours on line to get one.) Joe -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
$ problems seems to be the underlying reason in the majority of statements in this thread. Otherwise I suspect most of us would buy new Macs and not regret the move. But Bang for Buck is a big advantage of the Gs. No doubt about that. But lets get to the real crux of the matter. What other platform is as satisfying all around? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Because: They're fun, useful, experienced, trustworthy, paid for and functional. and my wife has the new one. Paul -- When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him. -- Thomas Szasz -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 24, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jan 24, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 BW? I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters. Glider Pro: http://homepage.mac.com/calhoun/Glider%20PRO.html A very very classic Mac game. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD Thanks for the game, its really fun! :D -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N From:Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Glider Pro: http://homepage.mac.com/calhoun/Glider%20PRO.html A very very classic Mac game. Thanks. Downloaded but not yet installed. I'll try it out some time. Cheers, Andreas. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com I don't game much. But in the past, I've enjoyed the ones from Ambrosia. Maelstrom, Chiral, Barrack, Bubble Trouble, Aki (Mah Jong), etc. Been a while since I perused their site, but as I recall they still have their older games available, that run quite well on older machines and OSes. http://www.ambrosiasw.com/ Also check the game category on MacUpdate. MacUpdate is something I have to get used to. But I will have this page bookmarked and visited regularily. The Ambrosia games are all $10, and I won't be spending money due to lack of time playing games. But thanks for the hint. If I have the time to play, which is very seldom on my G3 BW, I will try to get free games. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com At 9:46 PM +0100 1/23/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: where do I find the system logs? The logs live in a number of places. Use Console.app to view them. That app is a nice reader, with some simple filtering capability. And it's read-only, so peruse all you want. /Applications/Utilities/Console.app I put it to sleep with the fans (internal and the one of the power supply) still running. There is nothing unusual in the system log. -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Do you happen to know if Safari can block Flash with the ability to allow it in a user controlled way? ClickToFlash works great in Safari. Installed. Thanks. And I use SafariBlock as a general ad/url blocker. It's a bit crude and buggy, but it's free and open source, so I can fool with the code. I'm still considering alternatives (MacUpdates has a view in its database). You should NOT be experiencing any typeahead delays. Still having. It's possible that Spotlight's indexing is dragging you down. This should be a temporary issue, right? Yea, but if you do a lot of file manipulations, Spotlight's indexer keeps kicking in. So it's a re-occuring suck. Personally, I'm not fond of Spotlight, so I've got the indexing disabled on all my volumes currently. (Don't kill Spotlight itself; if you do then many apps that require it will crash). Disabled it using mdutil. Haven't worked much with it since though. Will check next week. Thanks for your help so far. I may make a clean cut though and install it all once more from scratch. Maybe I shouldn't install it all on the G4, and so some installations on the G3 itself to prevent it being so slow. But for the time being I'm leaving it like it is, since I just don't have the time for this right now. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Kasey Smith kasm...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 3:59 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: -- Original message -- I'm also using some 3rd party drivers (kext, kernel extensions): ATIcellerator II 1.0.6b NTFS-3G 2004.04.04 with MacFUSE HPIJS 3.9.2 (updated HP printer drivers for CUPS, by the Linux Foundation) and the Wester Digital external HDD software for My Passport. Be careful with ATicellerator, i once completely crashed my G3/400 here. (I also run Tiger on mine, and a tip, instead of using GIMP, grab a copy of Photoshop Elements 2.0, its not free but it has teh same amount of plugins, if not more, and you can probably find it cheap nowadays) Thanks, I've installed ATIcellerator just so I /could/ alter the frequencies. I didn't do that until now. GIMP does it for me right now, but if I should have to work more with pictures than I do now (very very seldom!) I will take Photoshop Elements 2.0 into consideration. Thanks for the hint. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I'll tell you why I use a G4 AGP graphics with a 450 processor. Because I refuse to collude with the destruction of our planet by dumping a working machine and buying a less reliable replacement I don;t really need. I also refuse to surrender to Apple's pressure to constantly update hardware and software they try to force on us by their simple expediency of withdrawing support for everything not quite current. If I want to upgrade I can (and do) add memory, an additional hard drive, an external firewire DVD burner (pre-owned from ebay), PCI cards etc. I can get used software cheaply online. I can continue to use OS 9.2 on the original drive with some of the vintage software I have, with OS X tiger on the newer drive. Recycling could be our salvation. I've been using Macs since the SE30 was an innovation. I have an LC and a Powermac in the attic. They both still work. A 1975 VW beetle would get me from A to B. Think of my G4 as a VW beetle. Long may it last On Jan 21, 8:08 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: Hello fellows of the G-Group! I was just thinking about the future. I've just made an old G3 BW working again (it was wasting space and picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working with it, in other words: it is slow. Where was I? Ah, thinking about the future... Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. That was forseeable, it doesn't come as a surprise. I am wondering: I read so many postings here about people buying or working with Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. As operating system you're all running Mac OS X, some are still on Mac OS (which I call Classic, because I've joined the Mac world two years ago so the term seems fit to me). But why? (Why Power Macs _and_ why Mac OS X?) All newer software will be for Mac OS X/Intel very soon. Some of you may be using Leopard already, but it is now also just a question of time when it will be dropped as well. And this is dropping PowerPC support alltogether. If Apple does as they always do, Leopard support will be dropped with the release of the successor of Snow Leopard. Since Snow Leopard is already 6 months out, PowerPC users are safe for another two years or so. But that will be it. Dead for good. No more. The end. So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? On the other hand you can all convert to Linux. Linux was and will be running on PowerPC for at least another decade (-- my personal opinion). So if Mac OS X is now longer an option, you can always go the Linux way. But as I think of it, you will all be very unhappy with Linux. Mac OS X is really the best when it comes to being user friendly and easy to use for everyone (beginners but also experts; and geeks off course). I'm now in this situation. My G3 BW runs Tiger. I use it in my office for writing documents (Word 2004, OpenOffice.org Writer 3.1.1 and Bean), for making spreadsheet calculations (Excel 2004 and OpenOffice.org Calc 3.1.1) _and_ for surfing in the world wide web. And the last part is the problem. With Tiger no longer being supported the recently discovered security flaws are no longer being fixed. Surfing the internet will become more dangerous. Newer browsers will be (Snow)Leopard-only. Tiger support will be dropped in the forseeable future. Using old browsers (with ahellofalot unfixed security flaws not yet discovered) will also make the situation worse. (Like running Panther and being bound to use Firefox version 2.0, which is not a good idea if you ask me.) So: why bother with Gs? I've read, I think it was the Geekbench homepage, that the switch to Intel was a boost in performance to the Mac world. And I agree. Intel Macs are just... well, Macs! It doesn't make a difference if the hardware is PowerPC or Intel x86 -- as long as the operating system doesn't show any difference at all -- which it doesn't. Work on an Intel Mac and you won't notice anything, except that it is faster than any Power Mac you've ever used. Period. To clarify one thing: I'm only having Power Macs standing around at home and the one in my office. I got them as presents since they were no longer used in the company of a friend. So he thought I could use them still, which I do by the way. Just one I bought myself: a Late 2005 G5 with 2.0 GHz Dual-Core. It is nice, but really Leopard isn't using all its power (like 64-bit). _But_ my perspective was always to run Linux on it, just like I did -and do- with all my x86-PCs. So for me it was mainly a new experience and to see if I could manage a difference hardware architecture with Linux. I've also entered the world of Mac OS X -- which is a great OS by the way -- and got stuck with using Tiger daily on my G3 BW. I love it. Something different for a change. So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 (and: Linux User #330250, Windows
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Kasey Smith kasm...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 3:59 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: -- Original message -- I'm also using some 3rd party drivers (kext, kernel extensions): ATIcellerator II 1.0.6b NTFS-3G 2004.04.04 with MacFUSE HPIJS 3.9.2 (updated HP printer drivers for CUPS, by the Linux Foundation) and the Wester Digital external HDD software for My Passport. Be careful with ATicellerator, i once completely crashed my G3/400 here. (I also run Tiger on mine, and a tip, instead of using GIMP, grab a copy of Photoshop Elements 2.0, its not free but it has teh same amount of plugins, if not more, and you can probably find it cheap nowadays) Thanks, I've installed ATIcellerator just so I /could/ alter the frequencies. I didn't do that until now. GIMP does it for me right now, but if I should have to work more with pictures than I do now (very very seldom!) I will take Photoshop Elements 2.0 into consideration. Thanks for the hint. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 I would like to mention that the reason i have Elements 2.0 is because it was at my local thrift store. I only have expereince witht he slowness of GIMP. Also, instead of MS Office or OpenOffice i use iWork '05 and AppleWorks6 (AppleWorks has no powerpoint compatability...) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I still use my G4 iBook (1.42Ghz, 1.5Gb RAM, 250Gb hdd) for day to day usage, email, documents. It can struggle with flash (as others have noted here), but it just about copes with my needs, with a few occurances of twiddling my thumbs (it runs Leopard), but as I can't afford to replace it at present, it has to suffice, and considering its age I'm pretty pleased with it. It is pretty much desk bound now though as it has a chassis problem meaning the battery won't stay in properly. But otherwise works fine. I also have a Quicksilver 2001 (dual 800mhz, 1.5Gb ram) that runs Tiger, keep thinking about shoving Leopard on it, but don't know if it would be worth the effort. I use it less and less since setting up a Core2Duo PC with Ubuntu, which until it suffered a faulty motherboard was my every day machine for everything, including games, but that will be fixed soon. I complement the iBook with a little Aspire One, so I think thats why I can live with the shortcomings the iBook is now presenting. I've also got an old G3 iBook with duff video I was given, I might get around to trying to find a use for this sometime too. Eventually I aim to get a MacBook or MacBook Pro, but funds just don't allow for it at present, but I don't think I'd have a problem with Intel graphics on one as my usage wouldn't really be intensive enough to test it in that regard, but i could be wrong. Kelly -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: GIMP does it for me right now, but if I should have to work more with pictures than I do now (very very seldom!) I will take Photoshop Elements 2.0 into consideration. Thanks for the hint. Try Seashore. Gimp with a native OS X interface, runs a lot faster. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 27, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: GIMP does it for me right now, but if I should have to work more with pictures than I do now (very very seldom!) I will take Photoshop Elements 2.0 into consideration. Thanks for the hint. This topic is getting very hard to follow, Somebody please kill it:-) JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA carmo...@aol,com -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
It's a iMac G5. There's a hack to allow the video port to support extended desktop mode and not just be mirrored. The hack works with Leopard, Tiger and Classic. It can be found here: http://rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html Rick On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Kasey Smith wrote: On Jan 25, 2010, at 2:05 PM, coolr...@comcast.net wrote: The only Mac I ever had that was cutting edge was a 512K that I bought new. I've always been behind the times but they're still powerful machines and get the job done. Heck yeah I'd like to have a new Mac but what can it do that I can't do already? Or need to to do? I have a small network at home. A G5 iMac for web, email, etc., a BW that's tricked up (1GHz accelerator, max RAM, SCSI card, extra hard drives, etc.) for Pro Tools and a 450MHz G3 iMac that I bought at a yard sale for $10 that I use as a print server. They all run Tiger though I have a Leopard partition on the G5 and can boot the BW into Tiger or OS9 depending on my needs. Both the G5 and the BW run two displays. I also have a totally maxed out IIci that would have cost $25K in 1990 that I use as a MIDI controller for an old version of Performer for some vintage MIDI files that I have. The IIci runs System 7.1 and has a Nubus (remember that?) Ethernet card and is connected to the network so I can back it up. I have $70 in the IIci. I know someday I'll have to upgrade to Intel just as I had to upgrade from OS9 a few years ago but for now everything is working. As Bruce quoted the old axiom, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. r Lol, i thoink you mean PowerMac G5, not iMac. The only iMac to ever have an expansion slot were the very first (Rev.A) tray-load iMacs. Also, i run dual displays on my G3 BW too, with an extra rage 128. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:26 AM, coolr...@comcast.net wrote: It's a iMac G5. There's a hack to allow the video port to support extended desktop mode and not just be mirrored. The hack works with Leopard, Tiger and Classic. It can be found here: http://rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html Rick On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Kasey Smith wrote: On Jan 25, 2010, at 2:05 PM, coolr...@comcast.net wrote: The only Mac I ever had that was cutting edge was a 512K that I bought new. I've always been behind the times but they're still powerful machines and get the job done. Heck yeah I'd like to have a new Mac but what can it do that I can't do already? Or need to to do? I have a small network at home. A G5 iMac for web, email, etc., a BW that's tricked up (1GHz accelerator, max RAM, SCSI card, extra hard drives, etc.) for Pro Tools and a 450MHz G3 iMac that I bought at a yard sale for $10 that I use as a print server. They all run Tiger though I have a Leopard partition on the G5 and can boot the BW into Tiger or OS9 depending on my needs. Both the G5 and the BW run two displays. I also have a totally maxed out IIci that would have cost $25K in 1990 that I use as a MIDI controller for an old version of Performer for some vintage MIDI files that I have. The IIci runs System 7.1 and has a Nubus (remember that?) Ethernet card and is connected to the network so I can back it up. I have $70 in the IIci. I know someday I'll have to upgrade to Intel just as I had to upgrade from OS9 a few years ago but for now everything is working. As Bruce quoted the old axiom, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. r Lol, i thoink you mean PowerMac G5, not iMac. The only iMac to ever have an expansion slot were the very first (Rev.A) tray-load iMacs. Also, i run dual displays on my G3 BW too, with an extra rage 128. Blargh, for some reason it made me think that he put in another video card. I knew about the hack but i spaced the fact that the imac now has a video connector that can do more than mirroring. (My newest iMac is the Summer 2 Indigo iMac DV -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I'm not buying any Mac with Intel GMA video, which is pretty much all I can afford at this time. Besides, the G4's and G5's running Tiger and Leopard are still doing what I need them to do. When they stop being able to do what I need and the price of an Intel Mac with decent options and no major reliability issues comes down then I will consider one. On Jan 21, 3:08 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: Hello fellows of the G-Group! I was just thinking about the future. I've just made an old G3 BW working again (it was wasting space and picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working with it, in other words: it is slow. Where was I? Ah, thinking about the future... Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. That was forseeable, it doesn't come as a surprise. I am wondering: I read so many postings here about people buying or working with Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. As operating system you're all running Mac OS X, some are still on Mac OS (which I call Classic, because I've joined the Mac world two years ago so the term seems fit to me). But why? (Why Power Macs _and_ why Mac OS X?) All newer software will be for Mac OS X/Intel very soon. Some of you may be using Leopard already, but it is now also just a question of time when it will be dropped as well. And this is dropping PowerPC support alltogether. If Apple does as they always do, Leopard support will be dropped with the release of the successor of Snow Leopard. Since Snow Leopard is already 6 months out, PowerPC users are safe for another two years or so. But that will be it. Dead for good. No more. The end. So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? On the other hand you can all convert to Linux. Linux was and will be running on PowerPC for at least another decade (-- my personal opinion). So if Mac OS X is now longer an option, you can always go the Linux way. But as I think of it, you will all be very unhappy with Linux. Mac OS X is really the best when it comes to being user friendly and easy to use for everyone (beginners but also experts; and geeks off course). I'm now in this situation. My G3 BW runs Tiger. I use it in my office for writing documents (Word 2004, OpenOffice.org Writer 3.1.1 and Bean), for making spreadsheet calculations (Excel 2004 and OpenOffice.org Calc 3.1.1) _and_ for surfing in the world wide web. And the last part is the problem. With Tiger no longer being supported the recently discovered security flaws are no longer being fixed. Surfing the internet will become more dangerous. Newer browsers will be (Snow)Leopard-only. Tiger support will be dropped in the forseeable future. Using old browsers (with ahellofalot unfixed security flaws not yet discovered) will also make the situation worse. (Like running Panther and being bound to use Firefox version 2.0, which is not a good idea if you ask me.) So: why bother with Gs? I've read, I think it was the Geekbench homepage, that the switch to Intel was a boost in performance to the Mac world. And I agree. Intel Macs are just... well, Macs! It doesn't make a difference if the hardware is PowerPC or Intel x86 -- as long as the operating system doesn't show any difference at all -- which it doesn't. Work on an Intel Mac and you won't notice anything, except that it is faster than any Power Mac you've ever used. Period. To clarify one thing: I'm only having Power Macs standing around at home and the one in my office. I got them as presents since they were no longer used in the company of a friend. So he thought I could use them still, which I do by the way. Just one I bought myself: a Late 2005 G5 with 2.0 GHz Dual-Core. It is nice, but really Leopard isn't using all its power (like 64-bit). _But_ my perspective was always to run Linux on it, just like I did -and do- with all my x86-PCs. So for me it was mainly a new experience and to see if I could manage a difference hardware architecture with Linux. I've also entered the world of Mac OS X -- which is a great OS by the way -- and got stuck with using Tiger daily on my G3 BW. I love it. Something different for a change. So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 (and: Linux User #330250, Windows User #330250) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Glad G4s are still cutting it for you. They don't for me anymore. Between today's internet (flash), multitasking, gaming, and video/graphics work, I need Intel. I'm not saying that G4s aren't totally useless though. I have 2 DAs running as servers, and an MDD hooked up to a projector for watching TV and movies online. I just need the increased speed of Intel for my day-to-day computing. Chance On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, PM7500 jburke...@comcast.net wrote: Besides, the G4's and G5's running Tiger and Leopard are still doing what I need them to do. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On 26/01/10 7:58 PM, Chance Reecher cnrtechh...@gmail.com wrote: Glad G4s are still cutting it for you. They don't for me anymore. Between today's internet (flash), multitasking, gaming, and video/graphics work, I need Intel. I'm not saying that G4s aren't totally useless though. I have 2 DAs running as servers, and an MDD hooked up to a projector for watching TV and movies online. I just need the increased speed of Intel for my day-to-day computing. I hear you brother. I have an upgraded G4 Sawtooth for my daughter (1.6GHz CPU, 1.5GB RAM, 802.11 G wifi PCI card) and it was great when it was being used for day to day work stuff. But have it play online kid's flash games from Treehouse or Disney and it laaagsss. I have an Airport Extreme base station about 1/2 a meter from it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Flash kills pretty much every G4 except the 1ghz dual processor machines. My media MDD is a dual 1GHz with maxed out RAM, and it just barely can handle Hulu, and definitely not anything HD. The faster single G4s can handle YouTube OK though, but only when it's the only thing using CPU cycles. I rebuilt a dead iMac G4 800MHz for my 11 year old sister this past summer, and (running 10.4 w/maxed out RAM) it's slow with everything but Word and iTunes. I get frequent complaints from her about how such and such internet game looks like crap. (And it's wired into my network too, I stay away from WiFi as much as I can.) I guess I'll have to upgrade my media MDD to a G5 and give the MDD to her. On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Arnel Tuazon a.tua...@gmail.com wrote: On 26/01/10 7:58 PM, Chance Reecher cnrtechh...@gmail.com wrote: I hear you brother. I have an upgraded G4 Sawtooth for my daughter (1.6GHz CPU, 1.5GB RAM, 802.11 G wifi PCI card) and it was great when it was being used for day to day work stuff. But have it play online kid's flash games from Treehouse or Disney and it laaagsss. I have an Airport Extreme base station about 1/2 a meter from it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Chance Reecher 765-4609 491-2286 cnrtechh...@gmail.com AIM: cnrtechhead -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 25, 2010, at 2:05 PM, coolr...@comcast.net wrote: The only Mac I ever had that was cutting edge was a 512K that I bought new. I've always been behind the times but they're still powerful machines and get the job done. Heck yeah I'd like to have a new Mac but what can it do that I can't do already? Or need to to do? I have a small network at home. A G5 iMac for web, email, etc., a BW that's tricked up (1GHz accelerator, max RAM, SCSI card, extra hard drives, etc.) for Pro Tools and a 450MHz G3 iMac that I bought at a yard sale for $10 that I use as a print server. They all run Tiger though I have a Leopard partition on the G5 and can boot the BW into Tiger or OS9 depending on my needs. Both the G5 and the BW run two displays. I also have a totally maxed out IIci that would have cost $25K in 1990 that I use as a MIDI controller for an old version of Performer for some vintage MIDI files that I have. The IIci runs System 7.1 and has a Nubus (remember that?) Ethernet card and is connected to the network so I can back it up. I have $70 in the IIci. I know someday I'll have to upgrade to Intel just as I had to upgrade from OS9 a few years ago but for now everything is working. As Bruce quoted the old axiom, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. r Lol, i thoink you mean PowerMac G5, not iMac. The only iMac to ever have an expansion slot were the very first (Rev.A) tray-load iMacs. Also, i run dual displays on my G3 BW too, with an extra rage 128. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I'm still using PPC Macs because the only Intel based ones I can afford are pathetic. There isn't a worthy replacement for my hi res Powerbook G4 that doesn't have major faults until you get to the nVidia 9400/9600 graphics models. I will not buy any Mac with Intel graphics or where the video chip gets glitchy (X1600) or burns up over time (8600M GT). On Jan 21, 3:08 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: Hello fellows of the G-Group! I was just thinking about the future. I've just made an old G3 BW working again (it was wasting space and picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working with it, in other words: it is slow. Where was I? Ah, thinking about the future... Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. That was forseeable, it doesn't come as a surprise. I am wondering: I read so many postings here about people buying or working with Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. As operating system you're all running Mac OS X, some are still on Mac OS (which I call Classic, because I've joined the Mac world two years ago so the term seems fit to me). But why? (Why Power Macs _and_ why Mac OS X?) All newer software will be for Mac OS X/Intel very soon. Some of you may be using Leopard already, but it is now also just a question of time when it will be dropped as well. And this is dropping PowerPC support alltogether. If Apple does as they always do, Leopard support will be dropped with the release of the successor of Snow Leopard. Since Snow Leopard is already 6 months out, PowerPC users are safe for another two years or so. But that will be it. Dead for good. No more. The end. So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? On the other hand you can all convert to Linux. Linux was and will be running on PowerPC for at least another decade (-- my personal opinion). So if Mac OS X is now longer an option, you can always go the Linux way. But as I think of it, you will all be very unhappy with Linux. Mac OS X is really the best when it comes to being user friendly and easy to use for everyone (beginners but also experts; and geeks off course). I'm now in this situation. My G3 BW runs Tiger. I use it in my office for writing documents (Word 2004, OpenOffice.org Writer 3.1.1 and Bean), for making spreadsheet calculations (Excel 2004 and OpenOffice.org Calc 3.1.1) _and_ for surfing in the world wide web. And the last part is the problem. With Tiger no longer being supported the recently discovered security flaws are no longer being fixed. Surfing the internet will become more dangerous. Newer browsers will be (Snow)Leopard-only. Tiger support will be dropped in the forseeable future. Using old browsers (with ahellofalot unfixed security flaws not yet discovered) will also make the situation worse. (Like running Panther and being bound to use Firefox version 2.0, which is not a good idea if you ask me.) So: why bother with Gs? I've read, I think it was the Geekbench homepage, that the switch to Intel was a boost in performance to the Mac world. And I agree. Intel Macs are just... well, Macs! It doesn't make a difference if the hardware is PowerPC or Intel x86 -- as long as the operating system doesn't show any difference at all -- which it doesn't. Work on an Intel Mac and you won't notice anything, except that it is faster than any Power Mac you've ever used. Period. To clarify one thing: I'm only having Power Macs standing around at home and the one in my office. I got them as presents since they were no longer used in the company of a friend. So he thought I could use them still, which I do by the way. Just one I bought myself: a Late 2005 G5 with 2.0 GHz Dual-Core. It is nice, but really Leopard isn't using all its power (like 64-bit). _But_ my perspective was always to run Linux on it, just like I did -and do- with all my x86-PCs. So for me it was mainly a new experience and to see if I could manage a difference hardware architecture with Linux. I've also entered the world of Mac OS X -- which is a great OS by the way -- and got stuck with using Tiger daily on my G3 BW. I love it. Something different for a change. So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 (and: Linux User #330250, Windows User #330250) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I've found a very good discussion on Macs @ /. http://tinyurl.com/yf98yp6 Cheers, :) Mike -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.netwrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N From:Stephen Conrad khel...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, captarne arnechristian...@gmail.com wrote: Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it Arne I mainly use my 8600/200 as storage but every once in a blue moon I play a game on it. My Smurf sees the same usage (I really gotta get my iTunes stuff off of it) My only other PMs (5400/180 and 5260/100) both have issues I have yet to fix. Neither seems to want to show me anything (on one the message says it cannot find a boot volume and the other has some problem I cannot recall). If I get them working they'll be for games most likely What games are you playing? Right now? I play two on Tagged.com (Mafia Wars and Sorority Wars) and two on Facebook (Vampire Wars and Zombie Wars). I also play games on Pogo.com (mostly Word Whomp!). But these I play using my Quicksilver. When the older ones were being used I played Tetris, Despaire, Solitaire, etc. I have some on my older machines (SE FDHD, SE, Plus, IIsi, IIci) but they are not being used right now. I also play games on my ][e and //c Due to my background I don't have even one single Mac game. I have a dozen DOS games though, and I was wondering if I could play one of those on my new G4 BW with 350 MHz. So I installed DOSBox and launched my favorite game Ultima Underworld, but it is unplayable on the G3 BW due to its performace. Works well on the Quicksilver and on the G5. So I'm wondering: I _really don't_ wont to inverst any more money on this. I already did too much for what I do with my older Macs. Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 BW? I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters. There are several Mac FTP sites out there. Find any FTP program or do a Google search for Mac FTP sites -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Miguel Garcia Gell maggel...@gmail.comwrote: *Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!!* __ But Miguel ! Do you LIKE them ? ;-) -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ http://twitter.com/FluxStringer http://mog.com/FluxMuse -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote: Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!! I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on copying the iMac. Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it. But it's a bit stale now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 8:05 AM +0100 1/24/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: What games are you playing? I don't game much. But in the past, I've enjoyed the ones from Ambrosia. Maelstrom, Chiral, Barrack, Bubble Trouble, Aki (Mah Jong), etc. Been a while since I perused their site, but as I recall they still have their older games available, that run quite well on older machines and OSes. http://www.ambrosiasw.com/ Also check the game category on MacUpdate. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote: At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote: Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!! I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on copying the iMac. Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it. But it's a bit stale now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. It's called the Slot-Loading iMacs ;) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote: At 3:16 AM -0500 1/24/2010, Miguel Garcia Gell wrote: Every body talk about what's is inside of a PPC's family BUT!...What about OUTSIDE?...I'm a industrial designer and let me tell you... Apple's Power PC are the most beautiful, equilibrating and gorgeous design of this century... PLUS all the good's and bad stuff of you can say...FOR ME, this classics are like a necessary furniture at home(I have 3PPC already from iMac,Digital A. to MDD800). Thank you Steve Job and he's TEAM...they are artist!!! I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on copying the iMac. Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it. But it's a bit stale now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. err, for the easy opening -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 24, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 BW? I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters. Glider Pro: http://homepage.mac.com/calhoun/Glider%20PRO.html A very very classic Mac game. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 24, 2010, at 8:55 AM, Dan wrote: Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! Only iMacs, really, and then just some, the G4 iMac in particular. The G5 iMac was remarkably easy to get into. If only we didn't have to on such a regular basis...it's as if they knew that one was going to be the problem child. But then I still have my 11 long torx screwdriver and case cracker in the toolbox. :-) Every BW G3 and G4 was a breeze to work on, except for the nasty sharp bits pulling the optical drive cable and after a while you develop sufficient scar tissue across your knuckles that you don't notice. Of the earlier PowerPC macs only the tower models were a PITA, the desktops were easy to work on; and the PC's of the same era were just as bad, if not worse. There has been more than one old Dell design that I've been unable to figure out how to even open the case without resorting to research. I swear, sometimes that Dell employed the guy who designed this http://tinyurl.com/ydv2aw8 . :-) IMO the worst single design decision Apple ever made (after the puck mouse, which is an entire 'sucky design decision' magnitude greater) was the placement of the power switch on the Centris 610. http://tinyurl.com/yk32u63 Back in the bad old days, when there were only three Macs in the entire college, in one prof's lab, mac newbies would constantly complain to me that every time they tried to eject a disk the computer shut down :-) -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Every BW G3 and G4 was a breeze to work on, except for the nasty sharp bits pulling the optical drive cable and after a while you develop sufficient scar tissue across your knuckles that you don't notice. Having work in both the beige G3 desktop and G4 GE, as well as inside many generic PC boxes, the Macs are much easier to work with. The same for the Performa 630 series, although more disassembly in needed. My similar vintage Siemens-Nixdorf 486/100 desktop is much easier to work with, altough the case in much higher. And has lots of slots. Gorka from Spain -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Ah, the iMac. I remember the time I was disassembling one, and upon struggling to pull the belly plate off (It must have been jammed) It popped off and I punched myself in the nose! I was in pain for a month or more. I've been wondering what will be the next 'Pro' case too. It is getting quite old/stale. As for games, I wouldn't invest anything in Mac games, unless you can get them for next to nothing, play web games, Free ones, or ebay cheepies. The PS2 is a way better investment, as it plays new games and all the older ones. Although I invested in Mac games, in retrospect, I should have gotten a PS2. I have a GC though! MYST was interesting, but it finally put me to sleep. I like the TRs. Angel of Darkness was the best Mac OS X PPC game, imo. I hardly have the time to drain my brain on games much anymore though. Anyway, I still use Mac OS 9, 10.3, 10.5, and 10.4, and I'm in the process of getting ready to install YDL 6.2 on a G4 400 AGP! I think I still like 10.3 the best and it's support was way too short for such a capable OS X. G4's are totally fun and pretty easy to upgrade. I still wanted a G5 only untill recently. I'm probably going to make the leap after 10.5 support is done (To what I don't know yet, for sure) likely a mini, or I'm thinking in a couple years there may (finally) be some actual options and something with some actual expandability, besides one FW 800 port and monitor/LCD TV options on the mini. I think Apple needs to move on to other models besides the more than a decade old iMac and limited mini. Blu-Ray player would be nice too! -Mike On Jan 24, 10:55 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: I thought it was funny to see how the other companies jumped on copying the iMac. Not crazy about the iMac G4 design (too many with limp necks). But I really like the rest of the iMac designs over the years. Very cool. sigh. Now if only they were easier to repair. Good industrial design should, IMO, include easy-open / access features. Yea, I know - Jobs is anti-user upgrade. But geeze - 90% of the bench time should NOT be taken up by just opening and closing a machine! The Power Mac G5 / Mac Pro box... love it. But it's a bit stale now, so I've been wondering where Apple will go with it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com At 9:08 PM +0100 1/21/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: I've just made an old G3 BW working again (it was wasting space and picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working with it, in other words: it is slow. Why? What did you do to it? My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze machine. Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too. Iffa your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up. Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and installed everything System Update was offering (including iTunes 9.0.2). I've then put the HDD into the G3 BW and it booted fine and as far as I can see it runs all the software (I haven't tried iTunes yet and maybe I never will) without any errors or system hangs. Additional software is: Microsoft Office:Mac 2004 GIMP 2.6.6 OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 Scribus 1.3.5.1 and some additional (system) tools: Stuffit Expander 13.0.3 7zX 0.7.1 VLC 0.9.10 (the newer 1.0.3 requires Leopard...) Open XML File Format Converter 1.1.3 (for Office:Mac 2004) OnyX 1.8.5 muCommander 0.8.4 Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1 Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!) Bean 2.4.2 Smultron 3.1.2 (newest requires Leopard) 0xED 1.0.7 DOSBox 0.7.3 Burn 2.3 (the G3 build) the (mandatory) internet stuff: Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out) Camino 2.0.1 Flash Player 10.0.42.34 Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602 Little Snitch 2.1.4 (THIS may slow things down) Transmission 1.54 (newest requires Leopard or even Snow Leopard) TeamViewer 4.1.6886 (I'm occationally helping out friends) I'm also using some 3rd party drivers (kext, kernel extensions): ATIcellerator II 1.0.6b NTFS-3G 2004.04.04 with MacFUSE HPIJS 3.9.2 (updated HP printer drivers for CUPS, by the Linux Foundation) and the Wester Digital external HDD software for My Passport. I've skipped Windows Media Components for Quicktime 2.3.0.14, since the 350 MHz G3 won't be able to play WMV files anyway. Any hint on that? What should or should I not do to make it *feel* faster? When I say that it's slow I'm comparing it to my G4 Dual-800 which is feeling responsive. The G3 BW 350 MHz lets me wait a lot, e.g. when I start typing I can see the letters on the screen one or two seconds later until it finished loading (the HDD is working a lot), thereafter it starts acting normal i.e. without delay. This is even so when it already finished loading = sitting there for some time waiting for me doing something with it. This starts right after boot-up when the login screen (for the password) is displayed. I type the password, and the stars * are displayed a second later, sometimes it also doesn't take my Enter key for confirmation and keeps me waiting to hit enter again. Don't get me wrong on this -- I'm very happy with my BW. I love the idea that it is older than a decade and still being useful for me. I use it for writing texts and spreadsheets mainly, and for that it suffices for me. I have to say though that Word and Excel 2004 are a little bit faster than OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 (the latest) is. OpenOffice is just too big and slow, takes a minute or two to even start. Internet browsing feels a lot slower too compared to the Dual-QS. But that was expected. The speed is okay for what I do. Watching YouTube videos isn't a good idea though, as almost 23 out of 24 frames are skipped (subjective feeling, don't let me quote a reliable source on this!). Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. cite? All my Macs, that run System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Panther, and Tiger, are still running. They didn't suddenly gak the other day. It's not that they would have stopped working. Why should an old system suddenly stop working? No. I meant that Tiger users don't get any more updates, especially security updates. And most newer software (take Smultron for example, a simple editor) doesn't support Tiger anymore. You may think what's wrong using the older version? You've got a point here. Actually, nothings wrong with that. It is just a fact. The only thing I don't feel comfortable with is using older browsers or older versions of Java and JavaScript, but also Adobe Reader and off course Flash Player. I'd also add Quicktime-like software like the VLC Video Player to this list. They've just fixed some serious bugs in Adobe Reader that did affect the Mac OS X version as well as the Windows and UNIX version. I don't recall reading, that possible exploints will be Windows-only. http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb10-02.html I highly recommend using the newest
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
One more angle: I like to type stuff in silence. Now where do you find a silent computer these days, and a notebook at that? My 15-y old Powerbook 1400 (with G3 processor upgrade) has a 1GB compact flash card for a hard drive, and it doesn’t have a fan. It runs on Mac OS 8.6, just enough for simple browsing, so I can use google mail (in simple html mode) and e.g. type this reply. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 23, 2010, at 1:06 AM, Fabian Fang wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Len Gerstel wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases. But as for no longer supporting Tiger? Please provide specific citations. I'm thinking that's just general rumour or something. Some Apple software requires 10.5 or better, iWork for example. This is not a good example. iWork '09 does not require 10.5 or better: http://www.apple.com/iwork/systemrequirements.html It works just fine on my PowerMac G4 under OS 10.4.11 OOPS, bad reading on my part. Sorry. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Geke gevangaste...@googlemail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com One more angle: I like to type stuff in silence. Now where do you find a silent computer these days, and a notebook at that? My 15-y old Powerbook 1400 (with G3 processor upgrade) has a 1GB compact flash card for a hard drive, and it doesn’t have a fan. It runs on Mac OS 8.6, just enough for simple browsing, so I can use google mail (in simple html mode) and e.g. type this reply. My experience is different, since all the Macs I have make a lot of noise. The most silent Power Mac I own is the G5 Late 2005 which has liquid cooling (even though it is the 2.0 GHz single processor (Dual Core) model -- I've read contrary information at everymac.com about the cooling system). The most silent computer I have is the IBM ThinkPad R51 from 2004. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com OpenSSL CVE-ID: CVE-2009-3555 Available for: Mac OS X v10.5.8, Mac OS X Server v10.5.8, Mac OS X v10.6.2, Mac OS X Server v10.6.2 Impact: An attacker with a privileged network position may capture data or change the operations performed in sessions protected by SSL While this is applicable to all implementations of SSL (it's a direct protocol failure), I'm not finding or hearing of any code that takes advantage of it on a Mac. I don't think that this is at all architecture specific. Every secure page (https://...) could be affected by it, and it doesn't matter if you're sitting in front of a PowerPC-based Mac, an ALPHA-based DEC, or an x86 (Intel/AMD)- based PC, as long as you direct your browser to an SSL encrypted page, and this very browser utilizes the operating systems capabilities to manage SSL. Mac OS X and almost all UNIXes use OpenSSL for this job. All are affected. On every architecture. That is how I understand it. But maybe I'm wrong again. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
For me, the answer is simple: My G4 PPC works perfectly and runs the software that I need at an acceptable speed. An added advantage is that my G4 can still boot into OS 9 when needed and I can connect my old SCSI hard drives easily too. I have several friends that insist on buying the latest and the greatest from Apple or various software vendors. I, on the other hand, am happy with what I have. My only complaint with my G4 is that it is a little jerky when I watch videos on the internet...voice and video are a little out of sync. My wife has a G5 iMac, and I have an Intel based laptop that one of my schools issued meboth are very fast and very slickbut neither Mac makes me envious. So, in short, I will upgrade when I have to but probably not before. Larry -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 2:45 PM -0800 1/22/2010, John Niven wrote: Like all good rumor there is truth in some of this. Semiconductor line widths have become so small that the operating voltage has had to be reduced constantly to combat leakage and NBTI effects. Having a overvoltage condition is VERY hazardous to a cpu's life. We in the semiconductor industry [...] Are smart enough to put diodes and such in there to protect the chips from such conditions. And besides, the power managers in products such as Macintosh are designed so they just can't crank out so much power as to fry the chips etc. My experience is that today's cpu degrade very noticeably through stress. I would not expect today's cpu's to have the same longevity as in the past. Good enough for the market? Maybe. If by today's cpu's [sic] you mean Intel's products (processors, and other chips), then I agree. They're simply not designed for long life, and then there are quality control issues... However, I would have expected that these systems were designed to be fail-safe i.e. the default condition is the voltages start at a safe maximum and the fans are full on. Exactly. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
--- On Sat, 1/23/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 9:30 AM At 2:45 PM -0800 1/22/2010, John Niven wrote: Like all good rumor there is truth in some of this. Semiconductor line widths have become so small that the operating voltage has had to be reduced constantly to combat leakage and NBTI effects. Having a overvoltage condition is VERY hazardous to a cpu's life. We in the semiconductor industry [...] Are smart enough to put diodes and such in there to protect the chips from such conditions. And besides, the power managers in products such as Macintosh are designed so they just can't crank out so much power as to fry the chips etc. http://www.semiconductor.net/article/205454-NBTI_A_Growing_Threat_to_Device_Reliability.phphttp://www.semiconductor.net/article/205454-NBTI_A_Growing_Threat_to_Device_Reliability.php We DO have circuits to protect against ESD, but I'm talking about much subtler conditions that lead to performance degredation of the transistors themselves. The practical upshot is the speed of the parts degrades, so since thats fixed by the clock, the cpu will eventually malfunction, happening first when it is hot. We have to sell the parts at a lower rated speed to allow a Useful life before the speed is no longer met. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 22, 2:46 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date: Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From: Da'Birdman sa...@defalcos.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com I've seen a lot of good, well thought-out replies on this: They work well for my needs, It's what I can afford, or even, perhaps, They're fun to upgrade and play with. (Obviously, I'm paraphrasing here.) But, no one has asked the obvious question, Why would anyone join a group dedicated to Power PC G machines and ask why you are still using them? Duh! If you didn't have a reason, wouldn't you just move on to a Mac Mini (I own two, but still love my Power PC's) or an iMac and leave this group? I'm not trying to flame on here, but I just think it's odd that a G-List member would question the reasons for owning and working on the very kinds of machines the list is dedicated to. I mean, I wonder why there are people still working with System 6, but obviously they have their own reasons. I wouldn't join the group and then question why they are doing it. It just seems a bit odd to me. Does it seem strange to anyone else? Would it have made sense to ask this question in another group? Would, for example, the Intel-Group have answers to such a question? Perhaps so, but apparently nobody else thought that this was odd other than me, so I'm guessing this was the right place to pose your questions. To explain myself: 1) I am not a native speaker, so the language barrier may be an issue. I don't think so. Your English is better than a lot of Americans! :-) 2) I started using Macs of any kind about two years ago. So my knowledge of Macs is very new to me, but old (in lack of a better word I cannot cum up with right now) to others. 3) I recently got some older Power Macs, got infected by their design and them being different, e.g. NOT Windows and NOT Intel. You're beginning to answer your own questions, then! 4) I come from a Linux background. Updates come regularly and Linux can be used on old machines as well as on new machines. But the point is, as long as you go with supported distros and supported open source software projects, you'll always recieve updates and security fixes. But no Linux distros come from the manufacturer of the hardware. Apple has a financial incentive to move people up to new hardware. The Linux distros don't. 5) I've just finished installing Mac OS X and I'm working with it a little bit now. I like Mac OS X and in my oppinion starting with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther it is really a great and reliably operating system. I think Tiger is the ultimate OS for Power PC G Machines, but it does love ram. Is your Blue White maxed out at 1024 megs of ram? It makes a noticeable difference in performance, and even though it is not intuitive, I find Tiger performs noticeably faster than Panther. 6) Now I'm looking at it -- with the Linux background -- and come to see that Panther really isn't safe anymore. And that is not the worst. If I use Panther, I cannot use a lot of free software that I would like to use (like Firefox, VLC, OpenOffice, and so on). What good is an operating system without applications? That's like buying the I'm a PC (and I'm cheap!) But, of course, then you have to buy a bunch of programs to run on your new, stripped PC. These would have been included in the more expensive Mac. Where's the value now? As for as the inability to run the free software on the older G Machines, I think you just have to bite the bullet and go with Tiger and load the computers up with lots o' ram. 7) A lot of people replied that they are using old software that runs quite happily on their Power Macs (and not at all on Intel-Macs). Well, my situation is different since I don't have and never had older Mac software. But, this does explain why they are using the older G machines. You asked - they answered. 8) And last but not least -- I wanted to ask you G-users what you are using your Power Macs for. And if you don't experience the same difficulties regarding software as I do. No? Then I'm sorry. Maybe it is the language, or I'm just crazy. If you run Tiger, I think you'll find fewer issues, at least for the time being. Of course, it'll just be a matter of time before a lot of the freeware out there will require Intel and Leopard, Snow Leopard or OS 10.7 (Garfield?). Either way I want to thank you all for your participation and your time. I really appreciate it. I've read a lot about people using Macs since decades and running their old but still functional software on them. I've read that people would like newer Macs but the money issue stand between wanting and getting. And I've read that I shouldn't tell people what the are gonna do or not do (for which I still feel responsible and I'd like to apologise). No apology necessary
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
The used Apples I bought had the classic programs taken off. I tried to add them again but couldn't . They only worked partially. Apple works was great though when it worked. -- From: Lawrence David Eden lde...@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:37 AM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? For me, the answer is simple: My G4 PPC works perfectly and runs the software that I need at an acceptable speed. An added advantage is that my G4 can still boot into OS 9 when needed and I can connect my old SCSI hard drives easily too. I have several friends that insist on buying the latest and the greatest from Apple or various software vendors. I, on the other hand, am happy with what I have. My only complaint with my G4 is that it is a little jerky when I watch videos on the internet...voice and video are a little out of sync. My wife has a G5 iMac, and I have an Intel based laptop that one of my schools issued meboth are very fast and very slickbut neither Mac makes me envious. So, in short, I will upgrade when I have to but probably not before. Larry -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
It's was the same when people asked, Why don't you just throw away that IIsi? The IIsi can still run MS Word 4, boots up quicker than any PPC and Intel Mac I know of and if you can still find a use for the thing then it ain't dead. Surfing the web with it is tricky, but it was my main computer up until 1999 when I bought a BW. I use it with my special needs students running old edu software that is simple and way better (IMO) than what's currently out there for the newer systems. Also with 64MB, playing Marathon is still a hoot. As for the G's, as stated above and others have mentioned they are not dead until people can't find any use for them. With all these newer versions of the same apps, what other bells and whistles do you need to write a letter or a novel or make a card? E-mail is still text based and never needed any fancy graphics (although Jobs would like you to think otherwise). JPEG's and Gif's and PNGs can still be viewed by older PPC's. I can still view most web sites (unless they're frickin' IE specific! DAMN Winbloze IT at work) and surfing the internet will become more dangerous? For PPC Macs? Since when? Anyway if you want your BW to run faster simply upgrade the processor (o/c it if you want to 600 max.) and max out the RAM. Mine runs Tiger quite efficiently and it's used more for entertainment and storage. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com At 11:59 AM +0100 1/23/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: Why? What did you do to it? My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze machine. Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too. Iffa your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up. Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and installed everything System Update was offering Do you use Dashboard? If not, disable it (with OnyX). It's chewing up 40 MB real memory. Yes, Dashboard is disabled. I don't use it so I have it disabled on all my Macs (except the G5 -- it really doesn't matter there). Check to see how much cpu time Spotlight's indexing is chewing (md* processes). You may find your system is much more responsive if you disable the indexing. (Search this LEM list for the details of using the mdutil commands to do it). I'll do so as soon as I'm in the office again next week. Thanks for the hint. (including iTunes 9.0.2). iTunes performance is pretty much a total embarrassment to Apple. That being said, while 9 is required to talk to much of the iTunes Store now, the offical version for G3 systems is 8.2.1. I knew that iTunes 9 is no longer officially for the G3s, but I didn't care at the time of installation as I thought I'll not be using it much anyway. I prefer much slimmer applications for listening to music, but the real reason is that in the office it is not really possible for me to have music on anyway. GIMP 2.6.6 GIMP is nice. I prefer GraphicConverter 5.9.5 on the Smurf. I'll check it out. But I'm guessing that GraphicConverter isn't free... I won't be buying additional software. I'm using graphics software so rarely that it wouldn't be worth the investment. OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 Slow on any sub-GHz system. AppleWorks kicks its butt. All my documents are OpenDocument now. Besides OpenOffice I don't know which other applications truely supports this. I'm willing to wait for the application to start just to get compatible documents. The same is true for Microsoft Office:Mac 2004 -- which is by the way the only software I bought (second hand) for the Mac. Stuffit Expander 13.0.3 Known to clobber Finder's performance, and cause so many other problems... StuffIt is pretty much crapware these days. Make it go away. Thanks. But how? Do I just drag it to the pin? Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1 Update this. I thought it was the newest version. I'll check. Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!) If you don't need Reader for something specific, use Preview instead. Reader is typical Adobe crapware - it's full of security holes etc. I read somewhere that Preview is using xpdf code, which has security issues for its own too. (Meaning that some issues affect xpdf only, while others affect Acrobat only.) Anyway, Preview is slimmer, true. I'm having Adobe Reader installed for compatibility reasons though. I sometimes have to work with PDFs, including PDF forms and I'm not sure wether Preview supports it all. Burn 2.3 (the G3 build) Nice build of ffmpeg therein; I use it often (t'was easier than building my own copy). But then I use Sizzle to create the DVD itself - much better control etc. I'll check out Sizzle. I've Burn only for this one time when I really need to burn an optical media (propably a CD)... ...Performance tip: Transcoding is very cpu intensive, which can really slow your system's response time. So I get the process going, then renice it to +10. This essentially lowers its priority, so the system will kick it to the curb faster when I start using the Mac for other things. When I walk away from my Mac, I'm careful to sleep the display or at least put the mouse in the screen saver off corner. I'd rather the cpu time was given to ffmpeg or Sizzle than the screen saver. sudo renice +10 pid I'll keep that in mind, but it's not applicable to me. I always shut my BW down completely. I noticed that when putting it to sleep, part of the fans keep working (the power supply?) and this is a no-go situation. I don't know if the power supply is original or not. (You remember I got this G3 BW as a present and it was not working at all at first, so I'm happy with it anyway.) Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out) Camino 2.0.1 Flash Player 10.0.42.34 Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602 Be sure to install a Flash blocker in your browsers. Amazing how fast the web becomes when Flash is put under tight control!!! I'm using NoScript in Firefox. But Flash is not the friction here: I also installed AdBlock Plus with some filters -- Firefox takes over 3 minutes to start with even one or two filters active. The ad filters
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it Arne -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?Winblowz connection
Every Winter we see one or more topics like this make 100 or more posts. Luckily this one is on topic and there is no Nanny whiplash or shutdown needed. Best of all everyone is in a comfort zone. Way ta go Listers ! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Samstag 23 Januar 2010N From:kimtoufectis kimtoufec...@gmail.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com This questions has plainly drawn a great deal of interest and discussion...I commented once already, but looking over more recent posts here's another reason: the G4 lamp base iMac is one of the really elegant designs for a desktop computer, astonishing when introduced and still remarkable in its elegance. I liken it to the Philco tube television of another generation... How true... Some of these older Macs are just beautifully designed. I've been thinking about getting a Cube myself lately, but they are too expensive to me for what they deliver in performance. And then I think about it -- that I don't really need it -- so I don't buy one. I've still got the G3 BW which I like a lot so my needs are fulfilled. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Sonntag 24 Januar 2010N From:Stephen Conrad khel...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, captarne arnechristian...@gmail.comwrote: Well I use them mostly as a hobby, I just was given a pre imac all in one G3 266 and it works great! I can put all my old OS 9 games on it Arne I mainly use my 8600/200 as storage but every once in a blue moon I play a game on it. My Smurf sees the same usage (I really gotta get my iTunes stuff off of it) My only other PMs (5400/180 and 5260/100) both have issues I have yet to fix. Neither seems to want to show me anything (on one the message says it cannot find a boot volume and the other has some problem I cannot recall). If I get them working they'll be for games most likely What games are you playing? Due to my background I don't have even one single Mac game. I have a dozen DOS games though, and I was wondering if I could play one of those on my new G4 BW with 350 MHz. So I installed DOSBox and launched my favorite game Ultima Underworld, but it is unplayable on the G3 BW due to its performace. Works well on the Quicksilver and on the G5. So I'm wondering: I _really don't_ wont to inverst any more money on this. I already did too much for what I do with my older Macs. Are there any free Mac games out there that will play nicely on my G3 BW? I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.11 Tiger if that matters. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Bruce Johnson wrote: WOWZA, thats a large pile o'Urban legendosity. Uhh, no. A Lack of drivers for the SMC (which is the power control system for the laptop) merely means that yoiu get the fans on, and poor battery performance. But even on that note, you're wrong, because the Asus One netbook has the same SMC power management and lo and behold Suse works it quite well. Yeah, I am tempted to try whatever is being smoked by this person. Debian works great, and so does Slack, for those of us who are anti-RPM based distros. Long Live The Revolution! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Dennis Myhand wrote: Bruce Johnson wrote: WOWZA, thats a large pile o'Urban legendosity. Uhh, no. A Lack of drivers for the SMC (which is the power control system for the laptop) merely means that yoiu get the fans on, and poor battery performance. But even on that note, you're wrong, because the Asus One netbook has the same SMC power management and lo and behold Suse works it quite well. Yeah, I am tempted to try whatever is being smoked by this person. Debian works great, and so does Slack, for those of us who are anti- RPM based distros. Long Live The Revolution! If you guys want to meet the source of my info get on IRC. server: irc.freenode.net room/channel: ##apple or ##mac (hes in both) His name is Branes btw. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Sorry, I came late to this thread. Original question - Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Multiple answer(s): 1) Wife won't let me buy a Mac Pro - she thinks things like housing, food etc are a priority. 2) Even if wife were in agreement with idea, bank manager wouldn't be. 3) Using Office2008 (of necessity) and Adobe CS3 under Leopard, it works as well as it ever did. Sure, the Mac Pro would be faster, but that doesn't mean my dual 2.0 G5 has suddenly slowed down overnight. Unnecessary expenditure of £2,000+ would not be a great idea right now, and any extra speed is not a viable return on my spending cash I don't quite have. To enable my working from home when my employers upgrade to CS5 on its anticipated release later this year, I might have to rethink. (Before I get flamed, Adobe permit activation on two machines if not used simultaneously, and I'm never in the office AND at home at the same time). If this situation DOES arise, as it's in my employer's interests for me to have a working from home capability, I shall see what I can do to make them assist in the upgrade. (I'm 2.5hrs from work, so an extra trip in at weekends is not lightly undertaken). Until that happens, why would I need to upgrade? I agree that YMMV Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
You asked: So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? I have been using Macs since the first one came out in the early 80s, used Apple II's before that, plus DOS, Windows in all its incarnations, and mainframes (ugh) before them in the '60s and 70's. I am stuck using a PPC Mac because I have written three textbooks, each of about 900 pp, and these are done in Pagemaker 7.0 that only runs in Classic. The G4 running 10.4.x is the latest Mac that will run Classic. I have several of these, one active and the others in reserve to replace the active one as they die, (the one I bought new in 2002 has done so already). The books must be updated to new editions every 3-4 years. The prospect of redoing them in INDesign (which, IMHO, is inferior to PM in many ways) is untenable. I am too old to face that amount of work. PM7 on Windows is inferior to the Mac version for professional typesetting purposes in my opinion. So here I sit in front of a G4 MDD. I am not a Luddite, however, I also have a new Mac Powerbook 17 running Snow Leopard with Win XP running in Parallels on it as well. Several Wintel machines running XP, Vista, and Win7 round out the stable. (I also write commercial code in VB.Net on the PC platforms). Nevertheless, the G4 Mirror Drive Door models are very good machines, with respectable performance compared to the latest models, especially the later MDD versions with 1.42 GHz Dual Processors, 2 gig of RAM, high-end video cards, Firewire 800, etc. I also find OSX 10.4.x very satisfactory even compared to Snow Leopard (which admittedly has more bells and whistles). Good luck with all your Power PC machines out there. Keep them going. Prof. N. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On the subject of security, how likely do you think it is that someone will bother to take the time to write malware to attack G3's and G4's running Tiger? It's hard to believe that someone would pay the big bucks for a new mac laptop, wipe the HD, and install Ubuntu! Buying a new PC laptop, dumping windows, and installing some version of linux, yes. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?Winblowz connection
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Paul Kemner zkem...@gmail.com wrote: On the subject of security, how likely do you think it is that someone will bother to take the time to write malware to attack G3's and G4's running Tiger? It's hard to believe that someone would pay the big bucks for a new mac laptop, wipe the HD, and install Ubuntu! Buying a new PC laptop, dumping windows, and installing some version of linux, yes. -- How can we explain people buying a new Intel lapper and installing WinBlowz? overwhelming investment in Windows requiring Adobe Creative Suite? Addiction to pain? Woeful ignorance. Failure of the Apple store to communicate the pleasure of OS X? Insanity in the family? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ http://twitter.com/FluxStringer http://mog.com/FluxMuse -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I have two older Macs with Panther and Tiger on them. I have a Quicksilver with Leopard. I plan on holding onto them. They all work well. I really like Apples. I only have the Quicksilver out though as there isn't room to put three desk tops on my desk. I have a new Dell with Windows 7 on my desk as well. The new Apples do not fit my budget. Before I bought the new Dell, I spent one month checking out Apples. There were no good deals anywhere and I am retired. I bought the Dell with all new technology, complete with lcd monitor, multi-function printer, mouse and keyboard for $599. For that same price I could buy a square box called a Mac Mini with nothing else. I bought the Dell and went on the internet for a used Quicksilver. I upgraded it and it is great. If Apple wants to sell more computers, they are going to have to realize that they will have to offer better deals. The competition is stiff. I Really wanted to buy a new Apple but didn't want what I could afford and couldn't afford what I wanted. There are a lot of people like me out there. A week ago my husband and I went to the Apple store to check new computers, desktop and laptops. If I could afford it ,I thought it might be interesting to add a Macintel to my collection. It was depressing to discover that I Still can only afford the Macmini, with nothing else. Back to the internet for a used one- -- From: ===( )8 yersi...@verizon.net Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:34 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Andreas writes, So you will be keeping the PowerPC once you'll finally buy an oldused Intel-Mac... MAYBE SOMEDAY I MIGHT buy one of those damned Macintels, but I don't know that YET. Please don't tell me what I'll be doing in the future, OK? Having seen a Mac Mini for 500 Euro (the prices should be 1:1 in Dollars, right?) I cannot really see the fuzz about it. You'll get a small Mac with a better speed and a new and supported operating system. You can continue to use whatever peripherials you may have, like the monitor and the USB keyboard and mouse. According to the currency converter in my Quicksilver's Dashboard, 500 Euro = 706.778 USD, which is WAY OVER my budget for anything that isn't essential, such as computers I don't need, such as Macintels. If you upgrade a Power Mac with RAM, maybe a processor upgrade too and a bigger hard drive, you'll get close to 500 bucks too. I do not need a processor upgrade. My Power Macs (G4 1.5 GHz Mini, G4 867 Quicksilver and G3/800 iBook) are also already maxed on RAM. They all make me happy exactly the way they are. I only need a couple of LITTLE stuffs at the moment (two items I can get for $0-$30 depending on what my boyfriend turns up), and once I get 'em I'll be done for YEARS AND YEARS. You won't be able to run Classic Mac OS applications though. So you will want to keep your Power Mac anyway. Geez! I KNOW what I need for my own computing, and that is PPC Macs running Tiger and lower, which I HAVE and LOVE, thankyouverymuch! Now will you please stop trolling about the goddamn future? Right now I don't GIVE a donkey's ass about the freakin' future! Listers in general -- I know, I'm kind of testy today, but I'm REALLY sick and tired of this push push push from Bleeding Edge people! I promise from now on I'll just ignore this Andreas person and all the other Bleeding Edgers. ~Yersinia. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I tried all three and find my preference for Os is Apple, Windows and Linux, in that order. perhaps I am just more used to the other two. I know Linux is great for old Windows computers. I didn't realize that it was just as good for Apples.. From: Kasey Smith Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:32 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? On Jan 21, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Kasey Smith wrote: On Jan 21, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: _But_ my perspective was always to run Linux on it, just like I did -and do- with all my x86-PCs. So for me it was mainly a new experience and to see if I could manage a difference hardware architecture with Linux. Don't put linux on an intel mac btw... it could kill it. WTF? Maybe it'll stop working in depression and despair from being saddled from such a poor imitation of OS X, but kill it, like in render non functional, bricked, pinin' for the fjords killed? No way. You can go a long way towards bricking your system doing stupid low-level computer tricks if you don't know what you're doing, but it's always recoverable. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs I AM NOT kidding. Linux does not know how two work the CPU voltage part of the SMC chip, which makes electrons jump the electron paths in the CPU, eventually boring new paths and shorting out the CPU. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I'm not cheap. I'm retired. please let me know where I can find an Apple for almost free. -- From: Paul Stamsen pjs...@bresnan.net Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:29 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Previously, at 3:31 pm -0500 1/21/10, graphics...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: = So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? because I can't afford to upgrade for at least 2 more years. Besides, what's wrong with buying a new computer every 10 yrs? I'm so cheap I wait until they're almost free! P. -- The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity. --George Bernard Shaw -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
i see nothing wrong with buying used ppc mac's i just bought dual core g5 and i love it On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:55 PM, mlitwin3797 wrote: I'm not cheap. I'm retired. please let me know where I can find an Apple for almost free. -- From: Paul Stamsen pjs...@bresnan.net Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:29 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Previously, at 3:31 pm -0500 1/21/10, graphics...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: = So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? because I can't afford to upgrade for at least 2 more years. Besides, what's wrong with buying a new computer every 10 yrs? I'm so cheap I wait until they're almost free! P. -- The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity. -- George Bernard Shaw -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
What kind do you want? I have some old ones in the vault. Paul Twiddy Past President of CACC Charlotte Area Computer Club ptwi...@comporium.net Serving Charlotte Since 1978 On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:55 PM, mlitwin3797 wrote: I'm not cheap. I'm retired. please let me know where I can find an Apple for almost free. -- From: Paul Stamsen pjs...@bresnan.net Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:29 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Previously, at 3:31 pm -0500 1/21/10, graphics...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: = So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? because I can't afford to upgrade for at least 2 more years. Besides, what's wrong with buying a new computer every 10 yrs? I'm so cheap I wait until they're almost free! P. -- The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity. --George Bernard Shaw -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Donnerstag 21 Januar 2010N From:brettallica br...@nisene.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com What fun is life without a little novelty/frivolity? :-) I totally agree! It was such fun to make the heart of this old G3 BW beat again. And I loved to see how my other Macs keep runnig, to install and try out old and new operating systems (I actually bought Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar, 10.3 Panther with Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.4 Tiger and 10.5 Leopard -- the Leopard is the family edition). I also liked to get Gentoo Linux running on my Dual-1.0 GHz MDD. This MDD is now upgraded with a Dual-1.42 GHz processor card from a FW800 and it is running 10.5 Leopard and some graphics applications at my sisters: she actually uses it for real work. In the end the cleaning it, putting it all together again and making it actually work again was the best part. To be honest, now that I have all these Macs I don't know what to do with them. I only use the 2.0 GHz Dual Core G5, sometimes with Leopard and sometimes with 64-bit Gentoo Linux; I use the Dual-800 G4 Quicksilver very seldom, but the Gigabit Ethernet with the 1.4 GHz processor and the AGP Graphics with the original 400 MHz CPU are just sitting around. The G3 BW with 350 MHz is now my workhorse at the office. So at least some of them keep doing something useful. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From:mlitwin3797 mlitwin3...@att.net To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com I tried all three and find my preference for Os is Apple, Windows and Linux, in that order. perhaps I am just more used to the other two. I know Linux is great for old Windows computers. I didn't realize that it was just as good for Apples.. A good friend of mine once stated, that one always uses what one is used to. (That might be the reason for so many companies giving away their software as relatively cheap student editions and for sponsoring school computers. They hope, that people will continue to use what they have gotten used to...) Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 21, 2:08 pm, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: Hello fellows of the G-Group! . . . (Why Power Macs _and_ why Mac OS X?) . . . So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? . . . So: why bother with Gs? . . . So, G-Group: Why are you (still) PowerPC-based Mac users? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 (and: Linux User #330250, Windows User #330250) I've seen a lot of good, well thought-out replies on this: They work well for my needs, It's what I can afford, or even, perhaps, They're fun to upgrade and play with. (Obviously, I'm paraphrasing here.) But, no one has asked the obvious question, Why would anyone join a group dedicated to Power PC G machines and ask why you are still using them? Duh! If you didn't have a reason, wouldn't you just move on to a Mac Mini (I own two, but still love my Power PC's) or an iMac and leave this group? I'm not trying to flame on here, but I just think it's odd that a G-List member would question the reasons for owning and working on the very kinds of machines the list is dedicated to. I mean, I wonder why there are people still working with System 6, but obviously they have their own reasons. I wouldn't join the group and then question why they are doing it. It just seems a bit odd to me. Does it seem strange to anyone else? Scott Birdwell DeFalco's Home Wine Beer Supplies Houston TX www.defalcos.com -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From:Paul Kemner zkem...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On the subject of security, how likely do you think it is that someone will bother to take the time to write malware to attack G3's and G4's running Tiger? I agree that the propability for such to happen is very low. Yet some security flaws are very trivial and -relatively- OS independant, like Java security issues and older browsers JavaScript implementations. That could make even an old Mac running Mac OS X Tiger relatively vulnerable. But right now, there is no such security issue I've heard of. It's hard to believe that someone would pay the big bucks for a new mac laptop, wipe the HD, and install Ubuntu! Buying a new PC laptop, dumping windows, and installing some version of linux, yes. Well, there are some crazy people around (Me!) I've installed Linux on a Power Mac G5. I estimate only very few people do that. Besides, it is not well supported in Linux. (I have a lot of trouble with the graphics card. If I get some graphics out of it it's always unaccelerated = very slow.) BTW if you wipe the HD and install Ubuntu or Windows on it you're really either too rich (so you can affort it) or totally fucked up. But installing it side by side with Mac OS X might be a good idea. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date:Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From:Da'Birdman sa...@defalcos.com To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com I've seen a lot of good, well thought-out replies on this: They work well for my needs, It's what I can afford, or even, perhaps, They're fun to upgrade and play with. (Obviously, I'm paraphrasing here.) But, no one has asked the obvious question, Why would anyone join a group dedicated to Power PC G machines and ask why you are still using them? Duh! If you didn't have a reason, wouldn't you just move on to a Mac Mini (I own two, but still love my Power PC's) or an iMac and leave this group? I'm not trying to flame on here, but I just think it's odd that a G-List member would question the reasons for owning and working on the very kinds of machines the list is dedicated to. I mean, I wonder why there are people still working with System 6, but obviously they have their own reasons. I wouldn't join the group and then question why they are doing it. It just seems a bit odd to me. Does it seem strange to anyone else? Would it have made sense to ask this question in another group? Would, for example, the Intel-Group have answers to such a question? To explain myself: 1) I am not a native speaker, so the language barrier may be an issue. 2) I started using Macs of any kind about two years ago. So my knowledge of Macs is very new to me, but old (in lack of a better word I cannot cum up with right now) to others. 3) I recently got some older Power Macs, got infected by their design and them being different, e.g. NOT Windows and NOT Intel. 4) I come from a Linux background. Updates come regularly and Linux can be used on old machines as well as on new machines. But the point is, as long as you go with supported distros and supported open source software projects, you'll always recieve updates and security fixes. 5) I've just finished installing Mac OS X and I'm working with it a little bit now. I like Mac OS X and in my oppinion starting with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther it is really a great and reliably operating system. 6) Now I'm looking at it -- with the Linux background -- and come to see that Panther really isn't safe anymore. And that is not the worst. If I use Panther, I cannot use a lot of free software that I would like to use (like Firefox, VLC, OpenOffice, and so on). What good is an operating system without applications? 7) A lot of people replied that they are using old software that runs quite happily on their Power Macs (and not at all on Intel-Macs). Well, my situation is different since I don't have and never had older Mac software. 8) And last but not least -- I wanted to ask you G-users what you are using your Power Macs for. And if you don't experience the same difficulties regarding software as I do. No? Then I'm sorry. Maybe it is the language, or I'm just crazy. Either way I want to thank you all for your participation and your time. I really appreciate it. I've read a lot about people using Macs since decades and running their old but still functional software on them. I've read that people would like newer Macs but the money issue stand between wanting and getting. And I've read that I shouldn't tell people what the are gonna do or not do (for which I still feel responsible and I'd like to apologise). I hope that this is understandable. Thanks, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
--- On Fri, 1/22/10, Da'Birdman sa...@defalcos.com wrote: Why would anyone join a group dedicated to Power PC G machines and ask why you are still using them? Ha Ha! Always trust a Texan NOT to trust anybody. I think your answer is the huge number of replies it generated. Personally I think it's a fair question. These lists start with the subject matter being the latest hot Apple product. Inevitably as time goes on the equipment is superseded and so, if you are an owner, the question of what to do with the old tech arises. Unfortunately it is our sad duty to call the end and consign them to the landfill (or the bottom of the closet). Reading between the lines a lot of the responders have multiple Macs and they cannot be using them all at the same time. I am one of them. I have one in many of the rooms of my home, all networked, but mostly turned off, because they are still useful. However, I've been thinking recently of a 13 MacBook Pro, to replace my 12 AL PowerBook (which is one of two Macs I have bought new). I don't use a mobile as much as I did but I suspect that once I have bought a new one, all my old Macs will become redundant (except my Quadra 950, and an Xserve or two :-). John (Sugar Land, Texas) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases. But as for no longer supporting Tiger? Please provide specific citations. I'm thinking that's just general rumour or something. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Jeff Bequette jbeque...@tconl.com Bought my last dual g5/1.8 (June 04), six years later still doing almost everything I need it to do... (Civ IV would be nice, but not nice enough to buy new.) Works very well in leopard. However, I didn't get the bluetooth option when I bought it. Does anyone have recommendations, third party cards? With teenage daughters papers and iTunes libraries, I have upgraded both HD's 800 and a 300gb, maxed the ram. My daughter's new intel macbook (for college) can run rings around it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases. But as for no longer supporting Tiger? Please provide specific citations. I'm thinking that's just general rumour or something. - Dan. Uh, Dan, lets see: Last couple of security updates did not include Tiger. Some Apple software requires 10.5 or better, iWork for example. iTunes LPs and iTunes Extras require 10.5 or better. Dropping implies in the process of, and those few examples seem to indicate it. Len Running 10.4.11 at work for the foreseeable future -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?Winblowz connection
I share many of the views expressed in this thread about using a computer that is a great value and does what we need it to do. In most cases the need is expressed in software terms, since software is generally what we are referring to when we say we use a computer. I'd like to add that my clamshell iBook (300 Mhz, 544 MB RAM, 2 GB ROM) is a sustainable computing hardware project for me. That I found it on eBay for $79 and have kept total project cost for software and hardware to $150 or so adds to the value proposition, but I use it in part BECAUSE it is over ten years old and still works. Decent keyboard, decent screen, decent software. I considered the new- netbook alternative, and one day I might acquire one of those as well, but as long as this serves, why introduce yet another computer to the wild and have reason to believe that my cast-off may well be in a landfill somewhere? Besides, the iBook has panache, it never crashes, and I can use browsers as recent as the last incarnation of Opera 9. Yes, out-of- date browsers pose some risk, but perhaps we're just not much of a market for the malwarers...do you suppose there are many Nash Ramblers carved up in chopshops to feed the repair parts market these days? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 9:08 PM +0100 1/21/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: I was just thinking about the future. ow. I've just made an old G3 BW working again (it was wasting space and picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working with it, in other words: it is slow. Why? What did you do to it? My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze machine. Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too. Iffa your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up. Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. cite? All my Macs, that run System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Panther, and Tiger, are still running. They didn't suddenly gak the other day. I read so many postings here about people buying or working with Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. [...] But why? (Why Power Macs _and_ why Mac OS X?) PowerPC based Macs, both desktop and laptop *RUN*. With few exceptions, they are VERY reliable. You give them a task and they DO it. Almost forever. Intel based Macs... ROFL. Yea, the desktops have the lowest repair rate in the intel-based industry. But that's not saying much - PPC Macs were and are MUCH more reliable. And the MB and MBP... You should see the file cabinets full of repair paperwork my clients have. All newer software will be for Mac OS X/Intel very soon. And you have an assumption that newer is better? LOL iTunes needs a multi GHz computer to play an mp3 without making the rest of the computer unusable, but QuickTime on OS 9 can do it on a 180-MHz machine just fine. Yup. That's better. Some of you may be using Leopard already, but it is now also just a question of time when it will be dropped as well. And this is dropping PowerPC support alltogether. eh. Enthropy. pffft. So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? A better question is why use the older OS releases? And what's the right tool for the job? A case on point: My clients have peripherals that don't work in Leopard or Snow Leopard. Apple tells them to upgrade. Yea, right, they're going to throw out $250K+ devices. It is more likely that they'll switch to new PC hardware and run Windows 7 --- which (almost) talks to those old devices just fine. (Almost = a i/o throughput issue that makes Windows 7 go plaid, er BSOD. But that's better than Mac OS X - where the devices don't work at all). At home, I think it's pretty stupid to dedicate a $1000+ computer to play streaming radio and drive a scanner. I use a 180-MHz PM for that. My main computer here is a 300 MHz Smurf. They get the job done. Newer browsers will be (Snow)Leopard-only. Tiger support will be dropped in the forseeable future. Yes, Apple has done a pretty good job of making Tiger support more difficult in XCode. How nice of them. Using old browsers (with ahellofalot unfixed security flaws not yet discovered) will also make the situation worse. And which of those security flaws are actually exploited on the Mac? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
I *AM NOT* kidding. Linux does not know how two work the CPU voltage part of the SMC chip, which makes electrons jump the electron paths in the CPU, eventually boring new paths and shorting out the CPU. Darn it. Now I gotta clean coffee out of my keyboard. This is pure, unadulterated, horse hockey. Thank you. Ok. Back to work. Trying to re-wire this console so it throws sparks across the room whenever the cat walks by, or the cameraman wiggles. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
At 4:37 PM -0500 1/22/2010, Len Gerstel wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases. But as for no longer supporting Tiger? Please provide specific citations. I'm thinking that's just general rumour or something. Uh, Dan, lets see: Last couple of security updates did not include Tiger. Were the patches applicable to the software in Tiger? Some Apple software requires 10.5 or better, iWork for example. Yes, but that's app development, not OS support. iTunes LPs and iTunes Extras require 10.5 or better. Again, app dev and (frankly) lame featuritis. Dropping implies in the process of, and those few examples seem to indicate it. I'm not saying they're supporting it with every app product etc. I'm just not seeing some global we've dumped this pronouncement. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Ok, I'll chime in. I have Beige G3 at work running an eternal slide show on two 19 inch LCD monitors. And a 500mhz G4 for general classroom work, mostly Photoshop, on another pair of 19 inch LCDs. Both running OSX, the G4 runs Leopard. Very reliable and fast enough. At home I have a dual 800 gig DA G4 for serious graphic and video work on still another pair of 19 LCDs. We have a family MacBook we all use downstairs for email, browsing and games. I almost forgot the clamshell my ten year old sometimes uses, also networked to everything else and the web. The G3 iMac she occasionally turns on for old OS9 games isn't networked to anything. Sure I'd like a desktop Intel Mac but who can justify the expense? Especially when everything else still works fine. And the truth is much of my browsing and email is done on this little Touch I have in my hand right now. Pretty up to date, at least until next week. Who could have imagined it? Rich Sent from my iPod -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:56 PM, Dan wrote: At 4:37 PM -0500 1/22/2010, Len Gerstel wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:51 PM -0800 1/21/2010, Jonas Ulrich wrote: Yes, Apple is dropping support for PPC machines and Tiger in general. I've seen information about Apple no longer providing parts for PowerPC-based Mac repairs, in some cases. But as for no longer supporting Tiger? Please provide specific citations. I'm thinking that's just general rumour or something. Uh, Dan, lets see: Last couple of security updates did not include Tiger. Were the patches applicable to the software in Tiger? On 12/3/09, the security update was to update Java and did not include 10.4 updates. Since Java is semi-independent of the OS, if Apple was going to keep supporting 10.4, it SEEMS to me that they would have updated it in 10.4 beside 10.5 and .6. The most recent one included updates to cups and flash (which I think are like the Java update, pretty OS independent) and the following: OpenSSL CVE-ID: CVE-2009-3555 Available for: Mac OS X v10.5.8, Mac OS X Server v10.5.8, Mac OS X v10.6.2, Mac OS X Server v10.6.2 Impact: An attacker with a privileged network position may capture data or change the operations performed in sessions protected by SSL Description: A man-in-the-middle vulnerability exists in the SSL and TLS protocols. Further information is available at http:// www.phonefactor.com/sslgap A change to the renegotiation protocol is underway within the IETF. This update disables renegotiation in OpenSSL as a preventive security measure. The issue does not affect services using Secure Transport as it does not support renegotiation. Credit to Steve Dispensa and Marsh Ray of PhoneFactor, Inc. for reporting this issue. which sounds like a widespread problem, not just 10.5 and newer. Some Apple software requires 10.5 or better, iWork for example. Yes, but that's app development, not OS support. iTunes LPs and iTunes Extras require 10.5 or better. Again, app dev and (frankly) lame featuritis. If they are not putting development effort into the software for the OS, that kind of implies that the OS will be left behind soon, also. See above. Dropping implies in the process of, and those few examples seem to indicate it. I'm not saying they're supporting it with every app product etc. I'm just not seeing some global we've dumped this pronouncement. Not officially, but the writing on the wall is getting pretty big. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
On Jan 22, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Paul Twiddy wrote: What kind do you want? I have some old ones in the vault. Paul Twiddy Past President of CACC Charlotte Area Computer Club ptwi...@comporium.net Serving Charlotte Since 1978 On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:55 PM, mlitwin3797 wrote: I'm not cheap. I'm retired. please let me know where I can find an Apple for almost free. Lol, im on the other end of the spectrum.. :\ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
Like all good rumor there is truth in some of this. Semiconductor line widths have become so small that the operating voltage has had to be reduced constantly to combat leakage and NBTI effects. Having a overvoltage condition is VERY hazardous to a cpu's life. We in the semiconductor industry perform burn-in at the component level to remove infant-mortality failures before shipping. We primarily use Voltage and temperature as our weapons of choice, but also continue this into sample life-testing on new products. My experience is that today's cpu degrade very noticeably through stress. I would not expect today's cpu's to have the same longevity as in the past. Good enough for the market? Maybe. Who said The light that burns twice as bright, burns twice as fast? However, I would have expected that these systems were designed to be fail-safe i.e. the default condition is the voltages start at a safe maximum and the fans are full on. When I power on my G5 Xserve the fan noise is very high until the software is loaded to control them. I'm sure the same applies to other Macs. --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: I *AM NOT* kidding. Linux does not know how two work the CPU voltage part of the SMC chip, which makes electrons jump the electron paths in the CPU, eventually boring new paths and shorting out the CPU. Darn it. Now I gotta clean coffee out of my keyboard. This is pure, unadulterated, horse hockey. Thank you. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?Winblowz connection
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:40 PM, kimtoufectis kimtoufec...@gmail.comwrote: I share many of the views expressed in this thread about using a computer that is a great value and does what we need it to do. In most cases the need is expressed in software terms, since software is generally what we are referring to when we say we use a computer. I'd like to add that my clamshell iBook (300 Mhz, 544 MB RAM, 2 GB ROM) is a sustainable computing hardware project for me. That I found it on eBay for $79 and have kept total project cost for software and hardware to $150 or so adds to the value proposition, but I use it in part BECAUSE it is over ten years old and still works. Decent keyboard, decent screen, decent software. I considered the new- netbook alternative, and one day I might acquire one of those as well, but as long as this serves, why introduce yet another computer to the wild and have reason to believe that my cast-off may well be in a landfill somewhere? Besides, the iBook has panache, it never crashes, and I can use browsers as recent as the last incarnation of Opera 9. Yes, out-of- date browsers pose some risk, but perhaps we're just not much of a market for the malwarers...do you suppose there are many Nash Ramblers carved up in chopshops to feed the repair parts market these days? I love Nash Ramblers and Metropolitans too. But you may notice my spinoff thread was about speculations as to why people run Microsoft Winblowz on Macs and ignore the far superior OS X. That can be very mysterious. you will not find any arguments from me on the points you made. I was sold on Mac OS over a decade ago. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ http://twitter.com/FluxStringer http://mog.com/FluxMuse -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs?
How far do you want to go? I have some 6500s down there and I might find a G-3 Beige File Server. I am also retired. Worst job I have ever had. Don't like it. Paul On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:40 PM, Kasey Smith wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Paul Twiddy wrote: What kind do you want? I have some old ones in the vault. Paul Twiddy Past President of CACC Charlotte Area Computer Club ptwi...@comporium.net Serving Charlotte Since 1978 On Jan 22, 2010, at 1:55 PM, mlitwin3797 wrote: I'm not cheap. I'm retired. please let me know where I can find an Apple for almost free. Lol, im on the other end of the spectrum.. :\ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
