Re: [Audyssey] Compiling Help Files
Hi, I definitely agree. Just look at the BGT manual. Besides the audio version being huge it is pretty much impossible to find anything you want in a hurry. However, using a standard chm file, html format, or one written in XML docbook it would be extremely easy to find what you are looking for by traveling directly to the section/subsection where the information is. The only thing audio books/manuals are good for is if you want to listen to something for the first time, but after that they are pretty much useless as a reference guide/source for looking anything up. For instance, when I was still in college I had the option to have my books read to me on tape or to have them scanned to text files. My first quarter I opted to have them read to me on tape thinking that would be the best way to go. What I soon discovered is it made my job several times harder because after I read the chapters once through, and then wanted to take notes I had to fast forward and rewind trying to find the information I wanted. Often times it was just quicker to listen to it pause the tape, take notes, as I was reading the chapter so I'd never have to look up the info again from the actual book. My second quarter I opted to have all of my books scanned and saved as MS Word doc files. Besides being much more portible I could insert markers in the text to jump to areas of interest, I could copy the text of the information directly into my notes, and using find and replace made it easy to search for anything I was looking for in a hurry. So my experience with audio books/manuals is that beyond leasure reading they aren't worth much as a resource. Cheers! On 3/15/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Audio manuals? Those are a pain. If they aren't marked up correctly you'd spend hours trying to find that little snippet of info you're looking for. Plus--they're quite a bit bigge then chm, htm, txt, doc, and any other fiels of that type you could mention. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Compiling Help Files
Hi. Just as someone who reads significantly both for pleasure and for my phd research I do see your point regarding indexing. However, while it is perfectly easy to search an html resource for a string of text or a given section, which makes it great for instances where you have large amounts of information in small chunks, eg, an instruction manual with sections like controls, game concept, introduction, items in the game etc, for actual comprehention of a complex idea I find I actually need a human voice speaking correctly. I used to use a scanner for all my university work, however betwene scanning errors, and the fact that subjects like philosophical logic and theory of emotions are not easy anyway, I just found this far too difficult. i used tape for a while, but when i started my phd with the grant money I got my rowland r09 recorder (the same one I do podcast and such on). I've developed a fairly good system where by each section of an artical or part of a chapter I record as a separate mp3 file, and I have my research assistant say the publishers' name, book title, chapter and section information at the start of each. This means at most I have files which are roughly 20 minutes long, and it's very easy both to find things, and to pull out a section for bibliography information. Personally i think audio manuals for anything that takes a deal of explaining, such as bgt, are a good idea, but they could do with correct indexing, say by being split into appropriate sections and stuck in a folder. If someone wants to read the manual all the way through they simply need to play the folder in winamp (or similar), while if they want a particular section they just need to open the file called 2.2. Such would be my thought, and actually I have sometimes wondered if highly complex, detailed games who's conceptualization is rather difficult such as lone wolf or time of conflict would bennifit from an audio manual. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Compiling Help Files
Hi Shaun, Well, as for myself I prefer html manuals for the simple fact they are cross-platform and can be read by any html web browser. That's why the manual for Mysteries of the Ancients is written in html. That said, my favorit for mat is xml docbook simply because xml was designed from the beginning to be a highly advanced markup language for documents like books, manuals, help files, etc that can produce formatted text as good as if not better than that of word processors like MS Word. For those of you who don't know on Linux the Gnome help system is simply a docbook viewer, and the help files themselves are xml docbook files heavily tagged and linked. I personally find them superior to the chm format used by Windows, and since xml is similar to html everything is nicely formatted, linked, and browsing the Gnome help system is like browsing the web. Cheers! On 3/14/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well its more of a prefference really. I don't use chms that much or rather havn't needed to. its mostly manuals in html etc. Though my favourite are audio manuals if I can get them. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Compiling Help Files
Hi Dark, I see your point, but the problem is that most audio manuals/audio books aren't split up into chapters and sections where you can jump to a section as needed. Some of the better audio books like those from RFBD have beeps in them to help you find the start of a chapter while fast forwarding and rewinding, but when I got my textbooks from disability services on tape there was no such indicators. I just got 25 to 30 tapes per book, and finding anything on them was a nightmare. So as you say audio books could be made to work if indexed properly, but if not forget it. I've just found I'd rather have it in text, html, xml, doc, whatever to find information quicker. Cheers! On 3/16/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. Just as someone who reads significantly both for pleasure and for my phd research I do see your point regarding indexing. However, while it is perfectly easy to search an html resource for a string of text or a given section, which makes it great for instances where you have large amounts of information in small chunks, eg, an instruction manual with sections like controls, game concept, introduction, items in the game etc, for actual comprehention of a complex idea I find I actually need a human voice speaking correctly. I used to use a scanner for all my university work, however betwene scanning errors, and the fact that subjects like philosophical logic and theory of emotions are not easy anyway, I just found this far too difficult. i used tape for a while, but when i started my phd with the grant money I got my rowland r09 recorder (the same one I do podcast and such on). I've developed a fairly good system where by each section of an artical or part of a chapter I record as a separate mp3 file, and I have my research assistant say the publishers' name, book title, chapter and section information at the start of each. This means at most I have files which are roughly 20 minutes long, and it's very easy both to find things, and to pull out a section for bibliography information. Personally i think audio manuals for anything that takes a deal of explaining, such as bgt, are a good idea, but they could do with correct indexing, say by being split into appropriate sections and stuck in a folder. If someone wants to read the manual all the way through they simply need to play the folder in winamp (or similar), while if they want a particular section they just need to open the file called 2.2. Such would be my thought, and actually I have sometimes wondered if highly complex, detailed games who's conceptualization is rather difficult such as lone wolf or time of conflict would bennifit from an audio manual. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Compiling Help Files
Hi tom. This is true,I've noticed it in dazy books from the rnib as well, which is insane being as dazy already has markers for chapter, section, part etc built into the format precisely for that purpose. I think though if we are talking about future manuals from audiogame devs or for resources such as bgt, it wouldn't be a difficult thing to do. For instance, Philip could split that gigantic audio recording of the bgt manual into sections. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is that judgement which can be renewed. For instance, in Q9, when you come to a pit, it's simply necessary to press jump and hit the right arrow enough times. In marrio however, the distance you jump is controled by a, how long you hold down the jump button, b, how fast your running when you begin the jump, and c, where you jump from. Then, there is the question of landing, sinse if you land from a long jump your stopping distance will not be immediate, meaning you might for instance jump a pit but slide streight into a monster just afterwards if your not careful. I think part of this difference is due to the fact that it's more difficult to show multiple objects in sound, and thus develope the sort of more involved physics which requires the players' judgement as well as their reflexes, however while showing information (paticularly what is above or below your character), could be difficult, i do certainly thing more could be done than currently exists, especially in the matter of altering the characters' movement and physics so as to be more complex. Of course, some audio games do have more complex mechanics to take into account such as the first person games like Shades of doom and Jim's golf game. But it does seem that we have rather too many games which go on the basic principle of here x, give response y, rather than considdering the physics and operation of in game objects. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi dark. I have read this with interest. I never quite thought about it in the way you have described. The thing is though I'm not entirely sure how you would get around that in an audio medium. Visually you can judge when you jump and how high you jump. But without adding extra sound into the mix which could have an impact on the environment of the game then I don't quite know how 1 would go about working round this. For example, take an action game, it wouldn't be possible always to stop, hear a description of how far you would have to jump to x point so then be able to make that judgement. You would have to run and jump. I think that when it comes to audio only games the challenges would have to be significantly different to that of a game that deals with both audio and visual input. For example, you may not have to worry about how far you have to jump, but when you get to the other side, you could be attacked without warning that's certainly feasible. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 16 March 2011 11:20 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is that judgement which can be renewed. For instance, in Q9, when you come to a pit, it's simply necessary to press jump and hit the right arrow enough times. In marrio however, the distance you jump is controled by a, how long you hold down the jump button, b, how fast your running when you begin the jump, and c, where you jump from. Then, there is the question of landing, sinse if you land from a long jump your stopping distance will not be immediate, meaning you might for instance jump a pit but slide streight into a monster just afterwards if your not careful. I think part of this difference is due to the fact that it's more difficult to show multiple objects in sound, and thus develope the sort of more involved physics which requires the players' judgement as well as their reflexes, however while showing information (paticularly what is above or below your character), could be difficult, i do certainly thing more could be done than currently exists, especially in the matter of altering the characters' movement and physics so as to be more complex. Of course, some audio games do have more complex mechanics to take into account such as the first person games like Shades of doom and Jim's golf game. But it does seem that we have rather too many games which go on the basic principle of here x, give response y, rather
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Dark, I would like to play a game with a feature such as a running jump. For example you have a chasm that is too wide to jump normally from a standing stop at the edge. But you could jump it if your were running. This would require an auto run feature so you don't have to hit a key to move plus the sound of the edge, preferably wider than one step or a sound that rises in pitch as you get closer to the edge. Then a jump key to hit when the time is right. This would take quite a lot of trial and error to get across safely. So some feedback on how far you jumped would be helpful. For example you walk to the side of a deep pit and the game says that it is eight feet wide. You know that you can only jump 5 feet from a standing stop. So you run and hit the jump key when you get to the edge, and you end up in the pit. The game says you jumped 7 feet so you know you missed getting across by 1 foot. A good example of this would be a practice pit that was not too deep so you would not get killed if you did not get across. Just like in MOTA the jump could only be successful if you holstered your weapon. There could also be a timer on how long you held the jump key down so if you jumped 10 feet across an 8 foot gap, you would tumble or acquire some damage if you over-jumped. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is that judgement which can be renewed. For instance, in Q9, when you come to a pit, it's simply necessary to press jump and hit the right arrow enough times. In marrio however, the distance you jump is controled by a, how long you hold down the jump button, b, how fast your running when you begin the jump, and c, where you jump from. Then, there is the question of landing, sinse if you land from a long jump your stopping distance will not be immediate, meaning you might for instance jump a pit but slide streight into a monster just afterwards if your not careful. I think part of this difference is due to the fact that it's more difficult to show multiple objects in sound, and thus develope the sort of more involved physics which requires the players' judgement as well as their reflexes, however while showing information (paticularly what is above or below your character), could be difficult, i do certainly thing more could be done than currently exists, especially in the matter of altering the
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Philip. these are actually some of the ideas I was very much thinking of, especially the business about running. I'll be interested to try this one when it's ready. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Phil, I like this idea, but the thing that springs to mind immediately is the feedback you mention. Having a voice telling me that a pit is 8 feet wide or that I jumped 7 feet would kill the atmosphere very effectively for me. It has blind accessible audio game written all over its face, if you know what I mean. If one could design it so that there is just auditory rather than speech feedback, I think that would be a very different thing. For example I was opposed to including a looking feature in my upcoming game as I feel that it spoils the atmosphere in a similar fashion, but I ended up including it in the end because I could think of no other way to tell you exactly where branches are for example. I did not use a menu, but rather a method that does not interrupt the game play as I am personally of the opinion that an in game menu that stops the action in an atmospheric adventure title is the worst possible thing that could happen tot he over-all experience. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, I would like to play a game with a feature such as a running jump. For example you have a chasm that is too wide to jump normally from a standing stop at the edge. But you could jump it if your were running. This would require an auto run feature so you don't have to hit a key to move plus the sound of the edge, preferably wider than one step or a sound that rises in pitch as you get closer to the edge. Then a jump key to hit when the time is right. This would take quite a lot of trial and error to get across safely. So some feedback on how far you jumped would be helpful. For example you walk to the side of a deep pit and the game says that it is eight feet wide. You know that you can only jump 5 feet from a standing stop. So you run and hit the jump key when you get to the edge, and you end up in the pit. The game says you jumped 7 feet so you know you missed getting across by 1 foot. A good example of this would be a practice pit that was not too deep so you would not get killed if you did not get across. Just like in MOTA the jump could only be successful if you holstered your weapon. There could also be a timer on how long you held the jump key down so if you jumped 10 feet across an 8 foot gap, you would tumble or acquire some damage if you over-jumped. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Phil. i agree this would be a good thing (though the business about damage for over jumping seems unnecessarily harsh to me), but I think your over complicating the situation more than it would need to be. As I said, the relative width of pits could be shown by altering the pitch of the sound. Say for instance a pit you could jump normally from the edge (to use your example a five foot or less), would have a high pitched wind sound, a pit which was jumpalbe with a long jump has a medium, and a pit which was not jumpable at all has a low ominous wind. A standard two step boundry would be more than enough even when running given the speed of character movement to tell you when your on the edge of a pit, heck, many people like myself play games like Q9 with the run button perminantly held anyway. As for jump hight relative to button pressing, well rail racers' jets are a perfect example of this. Of course, the player would need to practice and learn how long he/she has to hold the button for a given jump, but that is in fact my point, that many audio games would be considderably more addictive and interesting if they did! give the player a skill and form of jugement to learn by calculating their characters movement according to the environment, rather than by working on a basic stimulous response model. Of course, starting easy (or non fatal), and getting harder would just be part of the experience. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Philip. I do agree that relying entirely upon numeric look commands is not good, that's why I think more could be done with pitch as an indicator, either bying having relative wind sounds, or altering the sound denoting a certain ledge or obstacle according to it's distance. A look key might be a useful backup while the player is learning the relative significance of sound, but once the player has a litle practice it hopefully would be unnecessary. Though the view and context is very different, this was also my thinking when I suggested the wind sounds in entombed to denote space around the player, which does seem to have worked successfully. This is in fact what I did myself with shades of doom, I used to use the look commands constantly with the eva set on super verbose, but then I turned the setting down and finally didn't use it at all. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Philip, I think the chasms or pits could have different sounds indicating how wide they are. A constant whoosh sound could be a small pit you could easily jump over. a whoosh whoosh sound sounding and stopping in a loop could be one you would have to take a running jump to get over. And a whoosh sound that rises and lowers in pitch could be one you would need help, either by finding another way or lowering a bridge or swinging over on a vine. These different pit sounds could be described in a sound help feature. As for feedback on your jump. That might only happen if you missed the jump, sort of a coach telling you that you missed the edge short one foot or long two feet. Either way you would would be injured and stopped from moving long enough to catch your breath or take a healing potion. Or you could have a training level that would give you verbal feedback if you need it but shut up if you don't need it. Phil - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Phil, I like this idea, but the thing that springs to mind immediately is the feedback you mention. Having a voice telling me that a pit is 8 feet wide or that I jumped 7 feet would kill the atmosphere very effectively for me. It has blind accessible audio game written all over its face, if you know what I mean. If one could design it so that there is just auditory rather than speech feedback, I think that would be a very different thing. For example I was opposed to including a looking feature in my upcoming game as I feel that it spoils the atmosphere in a similar fashion, but I ended up including it in the end because I could think of no other way to tell you exactly where branches are for example. I did not use a menu, but rather a method that does not interrupt the game play as I am personally of the opinion that an in game menu that stops the action in an atmospheric adventure title is the worst possible thing that could happen tot he over-all experience. Any thoughts? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, I would like to play a game with a feature such as a running jump. For example you have a chasm that is too wide to jump normally from a standing stop at the edge. But you could jump it if your were running. This would require an auto run feature so you don't have to hit a key to move plus the sound of the edge, preferably wider than one step or a sound that rises in pitch as you get closer to the edge. Then a jump key to hit when the time is right. This would take quite a lot of trial and error to get across safely. So some feedback on how far you jumped would be helpful. For example you walk to the side of a deep pit and the game says that it is eight feet wide. You know that you can only jump 5 feet from a standing stop. So you run and hit the jump key when you get to the edge, and you end up in the pit. The game says you jumped 7 feet so you know you missed getting across by 1 foot. A good example of this would be a practice pit that was not too deep so you would not get killed if you did not get across. Just like in MOTA the jump could only be successful if you holstered your weapon. There could also be a timer on how long you held the jump key down so if you jumped 10 feet across an 8 foot gap, you would tumble or acquire some damage if you over-jumped. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Yep, that's why I don't play too many games anymore. It's too much like playing Bopit. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is that judgement which can be renewed. For instance, in Q9, when you come to a pit, it's simply necessary to press jump and hit the right arrow enough times. In marrio however, the distance you jump is controled by a, how long you hold down the jump button, b, how fast your running when you begin the jump, and c, where you jump from. Then, there is the question of landing, sinse if you land from a long jump your stopping distance will not be immediate, meaning you might for instance jump a pit but slide streight into a monster just afterwards if your not careful. I think part of this difference is due to the fact that it's more difficult to show multiple objects in sound, and thus develope the sort of more involved physics which requires the players' judgement as well as their reflexes, however while showing information (paticularly what is above or below your character), could be difficult, i do certainly thing more could be done than currently exists, especially in the matter of altering the characters' movement and physics so as to be more complex. Of course, some audio games do have more complex mechanics to take into account such as the first person games like Shades of doom and Jim's golf game. But it does seem that we have rather too many games which go on the basic principle of here x, give response y, rather than considdering the physics and operation of in game objects. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
What about a practice mode that kicks in when you die? Let's say you're at the edge of a pit, you jump it but run into a monster. Instead of dying, you get a redo. You again find yourself at the edge of the pit, jumping. You can't slow down--you're already in the air, so what do you do? Maybe you start shooting or kicking as soon as you land, or maybe you pivot your feet so you take off in a new direction. I know that when I play Audio Quake, (the episodes not the death matches,) I have to learn a particular area by practice. Yeah, this is sounding more and more like the same as before, huh? It's just ore and more of the same as before, I said, Gotta get to the cool new games store. they've got hard-core action and puzzles galore, but till then it'll be just like before! Oh man, I must be tired. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: darren harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi dark. I have read this with interest. I never quite thought about it in the way you have described. The thing is though I'm not entirely sure how you would get around that in an audio medium. Visually you can judge when you jump and how high you jump. But without adding extra sound into the mix which could have an impact on the environment of the game then I don't quite know how 1 would go about working round this. For example, take an action game, it wouldn't be possible always to stop, hear a description of how far you would have to jump to x point so then be able to make that judgement. You would have to run and jump. I think that when it comes to audio only games the challenges would have to be significantly different to that of a game that deals with both audio and visual input. For example, you may not have to worry about how far you have to jump, but when you get to the other side, you could be attacked without warning that's certainly feasible. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 16 March 2011 11:20 To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is that judgement which can be renewed. For instance, in Q9, when you come to a pit, it's simply necessary to press jump and hit the right arrow
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Another thing I've mentioned before is that walls, pits and so on could have echoes, just like in the real world, but exaggerated somewhat so as to be more audible. If you hear an echo a quarter second after you make a sound--such as take a step, you'd know you were about 250 feet away. You wouldn't calculate it mathematically after a while, you 'd just know. Reverb could be applied to certain areas too--the bathroom reverb for a pit for instance. I actually think a controlled flange might be easier to use than trying to manipulate echoes, but I don't know. That is why the big boys are out programming games, and the rest of us are just throwing ideas at y'all. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, I would like to play a game with a feature such as a running jump. For example you have a chasm that is too wide to jump normally from a standing stop at the edge. But you could jump it if your were running. This would require an auto run feature so you don't have to hit a key to move plus the sound of the edge, preferably wider than one step or a sound that rises in pitch as you get closer to the edge. Then a jump key to hit when the time is right. This would take quite a lot of trial and error to get across safely. So some feedback on how far you jumped would be helpful. For example you walk to the side of a deep pit and the game says that it is eight feet wide. You know that you can only jump 5 feet from a standing stop. So you run and hit the jump key when you get to the edge, and you end up in the pit. The game says you jumped 7 feet so you know you missed getting across by 1 foot. A good example of this would be a practice pit that was not too deep so you would not get killed if you did not get across. Just like in MOTA the jump could only be successful if you holstered your weapon. There could also be a timer on how long you held the jump key down so if you jumped 10 feet across an 8 foot gap, you would tumble or acquire some damage if you over-jumped. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like Marrio however, does not just rely on the speed or complexity of a players response. yes, the player may have to respond quickly or in a prescribed fashion, but these responses are tied to a set of game mechanics which require the player to use judgement as well as learnt reflexes, and it is
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
On the Q9. That would be cool that you could unlock more characters each one of them have different story. That's would be awesome! Tommy - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Well, having any kind of standard boundary is not necessarily good. A character already weakened and near death is not going to jump a wide pit from two steps away. He'll need to get right up on the edge to jump, since his strength is waning. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Phil. i agree this would be a good thing (though the business about damage for over jumping seems unnecessarily harsh to me), but I think your over complicating the situation more than it would need to be. As I said, the relative width of pits could be shown by altering the pitch of the sound. Say for instance a pit you could jump normally from the edge (to use your example a five foot or less), would have a high pitched wind sound, a pit which was jumpalbe with a long jump has a medium, and a pit which was not jumpable at all has a low ominous wind. A standard two step boundry would be more than enough even when running given the speed of character movement to tell you when your on the edge of a pit, heck, many people like myself play games like Q9 with the run button perminantly held anyway. As for jump hight relative to button pressing, well rail racers' jets are a perfect example of this. Of course, the player would need to practice and learn how long he/she has to hold the button for a given jump, but that is in fact my point, that many audio games would be considderably more addictive and interesting if they did! give the player a skill and form of jugement to learn by calculating their characters movement according to the environment, rather than by working on a basic stimulous response model. Of course, starting easy (or non fatal), and getting harder would just be part of the experience. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Not only that, but picture this scenario, that comes from the Over the Hedge game for the Nintendo DS. I don't know the whole story, but you have to get a raccoon, a turtle and some other animal into a house to get food--something like that. So you move all the animals toward the goal, but then there's a switch on the wall you need to hit to open the gate. You try placing the turtle near the switch, having the fox or whatever stand on the turtle's back, then having the raccoon stand on the fox and hit the switch--but it just doesn't work. Finally, in desperation, you become the fox, pick up the useless stupid turtle and throw it at the switch--and voila, the turtle hits it and the gate opens. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio On the Q9. That would be cool that you could unlock more characters each one of them have different story. That's would be awesome! Tommy - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi if it's better than q-9 then it'll be a knock out! As long as it's got wepons Smile - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are
Re: [Audyssey] Aurifi
Hi, I do't believe you do. It just keeps going on and on, eventually so you don't hear your guide's voice as much. On 3/15/2011 9:15 PM, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi, How do you finish the game, anyway? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Lori Duncan Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:47 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aurifi Hi I do enjoy playing it, but this tilting and keeping the radio tuning sort of noise in the middle is a struggle, it always manages to escape no matter how fast or slow I tilt it then i get the ever so nice message lets run through that again and it drives me mad! :( - Original Message - From: Charles Rivardwoofer...@sbcglobal.net To: audyssey gamers listgamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:30 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Aurifi Has anyone completed the game, and what are your impressions? I haven,'t finished it, but think it is neat little entertainer. Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Raul A. Gallegos Home page: http://www.RaulGallegos.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ragallegos --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Ken, You only really have one type of boots and I am trying to avoid slowing down the character's actions based on health. This is mainly because a few injuries would give you such a serious disadvantage so you might as well stop playing and restart. This is obviously going away from real world conditions somewhat, but I feel that this is needed to give the player a fair chance. I do have it set up so that you cannot run on certain surfaces such as branches, however. The idea about effects is one that I have been thinking about quite a bit myself. Since I am upgrading from DirectSound to XAudio2, I can now use real-time dynamic effects both on Windows XP, and Vista and 7 which is not possible with DirectSound. So it is very probable that I will be including effects in my game. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Matheus, As you say, I don't generally give release dates because public pressure is not something I want to deal with. When is it going to be out, how is it going etc are messages that drive me up the wall if I get them in multitude. I can say, however, that I am coming along very well and that it should not be terribly long before I am finished. My work is sped up considerably since I am now scripting in BGT rather than writing C++ code directly. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Matheus r.c. souza an...@bol.com.br To: phi...@blastbay.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio hi philip. how's the developed of this new game? we haven't eard anything since last year, i know that you don't like giving rlease dates and stuff, but the game is almost complete, or it will still take a while, like 6 months or so? thanks, can't wait. -Mensagem original- De: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Data: Quarta, 16 de Março de 2011 13:07 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Philip, also if your player is hurt would they not slow down because they're in pain or something? You could get a health bonus then they spead back up again to normal. - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
I like the one in q-9 when he goes hurrteling down to oblivian, it's a good efect. - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Another thing I've mentioned before is that walls, pits and so on could have echoes, just like in the real world, but exaggerated somewhat so as to be more audible. If you hear an echo a quarter second after you make a sound--such as take a step, you'd know you were about 250 feet away. You wouldn't calculate it mathematically after a while, you 'd just know. Reverb could be applied to certain areas too--the bathroom reverb for a pit for instance. I actually think a controlled flange might be easier to use than trying to manipulate echoes, but I don't know. That is why the big boys are out programming games, and the rest of us are just throwing ideas at y'all. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, I would like to play a game with a feature such as a running jump. For example you have a chasm that is too wide to jump normally from a standing stop at the edge. But you could jump it if your were running. This would require an auto run feature so you don't have to hit a key to move plus the sound of the edge, preferably wider than one step or a sound that rises in pitch as you get closer to the edge. Then a jump key to hit when the time is right. This would take quite a lot of trial and error to get across safely. So some feedback on how far you jumped would be helpful. For example you walk to the side of a deep pit and the game says that it is eight feet wide. You know that you can only jump 5 feet from a standing stop. So you run and hit the jump key when you get to the edge, and you end up in the pit. The game says you jumped 7 feet so you know you missed getting across by 1 foot. A good example of this would be a practice pit that was not too deep so you would not get killed if you did not get across. Just like in MOTA the jump could only be successful if you holstered your weapon. There could also be a timer on how long you held the jump key down so if you jumped 10 feet across an 8 foot gap, you would tumble or acquire some damage if you over-jumped. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:20 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi. My snes has been out of commission for the last few months sinse I turned off power to my tv and lost the tuning, and sinse tuning my tv requires a visual menue I had to wait for my dad to visit to rejigger it so that I could play my snes again. This means I've been revisiting some of my favourite classics such as Mario all stars and Super metroid. By a coincidence, sinse buying esp pinball classic, I've also been replaying several audiogames I haven't been on for a while such as the esp pinball xtreme tables and alien outback. The funny thing is, I've found that while I can do almost as well as I used to at a game like Alien outback, and probably won't need to practice much to get back to where I was, even at super metroid which is a game I've been through up down and backwards innumerable times, i've found my skills have really! deteriorated. I started to wonder why, this might be, and believe I have come up with the answer. Sinse it is far harder to show a large amount of spacial information in sound, a lot of audio games, even highly detailed and well put together ones like Q9 and alien outback, work essentially by presenting the player with sets of circumstances which the player must respond to more and more quickly and correctly. Eg, you here a ship on the left, you fly over and shoot it. These games increase difficulty by a, increasing the number of circumstances the player needs to be aware of, eg, different types of ships to listen for which move differently, and b, increasing the speed or complexity of the players' responses. Pipe 2 is one of the best examples, by forcing the player to first learn and respond to the rythm of fitting pipes, then increasing more and more randomized factors on top. At base this is a similar principle to simon, though games like Q9 undoubtedly take it a lot further. The drawback of such a system however, is that once a player has learnt response time, the response becomes entirely automatic, and thus no longer of challenge or interest, and, when replayed, those initially learnt responses are stil in the players' mind and can be recalled as needed. A game like
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Yes, wish I knew what those demon things were saying, they sound like they're grumbeling about the lack of wages and long working hours Smile - Original Message - From: Tommy to...@sirinet.net To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio On the Q9. That would be cool that you could unlock more characters each one of them have different story. That's would be awesome! Tommy - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
While I've seen some games that penalize an ability due to low health, eg, taking a power up off you when you get hit, I think actually peanlizing the characters' movement would indeed be unnecessarily harsh and end up as more of an annoyence. even resident evil, which was extremely realistic in the way characters were damaged tec didn't do this. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Ken, You only really have one type of boots and I am trying to avoid slowing down the character's actions based on health. This is mainly because a few injuries would give you such a serious disadvantage so you might as well stop playing and restart. This is obviously going away from real world conditions somewhat, but I feel that this is needed to give the player a fair chance. I do have it set up so that you cannot run on certain surfaces such as branches, however. The idea about effects is one that I have been thinking about quite a bit myself. Since I am upgrading from DirectSound to XAudio2, I can now use real-time dynamic effects both on Windows XP, and Vista and 7 which is not possible with DirectSound. So it is very probable that I will be including effects in my game. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Ok to ask a stupid question. What is space sound? Is it a new space game? Where can I grab it to test it out? Ron Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com -- From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:10 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Ken, You only really have one type of boots and I am trying to avoid slowing down the character's actions based on health. This is mainly because a few injuries would give you such a serious disadvantage so you might as well stop playing and restart. This is obviously going away from real world conditions somewhat, but I feel that this is needed to give the player a fair chance. I do have it set up so that you cannot run on certain surfaces such as branches, however. The idea about effects is one that I have been thinking about quite a bit myself. Since I am upgrading from DirectSound to XAudio2, I can now use real-time dynamic effects both on Windows XP, and Vista and 7 which is not possible with DirectSound. So it is very probable that I will be including effects in my game. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hmmm ron. I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I'm not talking about a game, but an aspect of gameplay, ie, the space around your character. You might considder having a look at the gamers list public archives for the full discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] A new online RPG game.
For all rpg gaming fans. If you would like to stress test out a new online driving game, here's one that might interest you. The name of the game is called trucking sim. The link to sign up for it is at http://truckingsim.com/register.php It is finally open to all drivers. So let them know that Big Ron recommended you if you sign up. There's one company already in the game to drive for, but you don't want to drive for that company. They want half of what you earn. It costs $7,000.00 to start a company. The main man to write suggestions and recommendations to is jefffan24. So check it out if your interested in a cool online truck driving simulator. Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A new online RPG game.
Hi ron. is this the same as the old truckz game which went offline recently? I know people were talking about getting it back up at a new domain name sinse jolt online had apparently kicked it. Or is this a completely new game. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com To: Audyssey gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:41 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A new online RPG game. For all rpg gaming fans. If you would like to stress test out a new online driving game, here's one that might interest you. The name of the game is called trucking sim. The link to sign up for it is at http://truckingsim.com/register.php It is finally open to all drivers. So let them know that Big Ron recommended you if you sign up. There's one company already in the game to drive for, but you don't want to drive for that company. They want half of what you earn. It costs $7,000.00 to start a company. The main man to write suggestions and recommendations to is jefffan24. So check it out if your interested in a cool online truck driving simulator. Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A new online RPG game.
It'sthe the old game with a few new features in it. So if you enjoyed driving in the old original game? You'll enjoy this one even better. HTH Ron Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:51 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A new online RPG game. Hi ron. is this the same as the old truckz game which went offline recently? I know people were talking about getting it back up at a new domain name sinse jolt online had apparently kicked it. Or is this a completely new game. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com To: Audyssey gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:41 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A new online RPG game. For all rpg gaming fans. If you would like to stress test out a new online driving game, here's one that might interest you. The name of the game is called trucking sim. The link to sign up for it is at http://truckingsim.com/register.php It is finally open to all drivers. So let them know that Big Ron recommended you if you sign up. There's one company already in the game to drive for, but you don't want to drive for that company. They want half of what you earn. It costs $7,000.00 to start a company. The main man to write suggestions and recommendations to is jefffan24. So check it out if your interested in a cool online truck driving simulator. Ron Kolesar kolesar16...@roadrunner.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
If you make med kits a bit more available, and the game was engrossing enough, I think the slight slowing of a character would just add to the complexity. That way, it's not just the Okay, I'm two steps away from a pit, time to jump, kind of thing, but, okay, I'm two steps away from a pit, my health is at 50 percent. How close should I get? If I get too close the monster will get me. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio While I've seen some games that penalize an ability due to low health, eg, taking a power up off you when you get hit, I think actually peanlizing the characters' movement would indeed be unnecessarily harsh and end up as more of an annoyence. even resident evil, which was extremely realistic in the way characters were damaged tec didn't do this. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Ken, You only really have one type of boots and I am trying to avoid slowing down the character's actions based on health. This is mainly because a few injuries would give you such a serious disadvantage so you might as well stop playing and restart. This is obviously going away from real world conditions somewhat, but I feel that this is needed to give the player a fair chance. I do have it set up so that you cannot run on certain surfaces such as branches, however. The idea about effects is one that I have been thinking about quite a bit myself. Since I am upgrading from DirectSound to XAudio2, I can now use real-time dynamic effects both on Windows XP, and Vista and 7 which is not possible with DirectSound. So it is very probable that I will be including effects in my game. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hey Philip, how about basing maximums speed reached on the number of hit points, the type of shoes-boots being worn etc instead of the flat 5 steps? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Oh, I thought he was just being a smart aleck, making fun of the way so many gamers post. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hmmm ron. I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I'm not talking about a game, but an aspect of gameplay, ie, the space around your character. You might considder having a look at the gamers list public archives for the full discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] 2011 Pool and Fantasy, still time to join.
Still time to get on the March basketball Brackets and to join a accessible baseball fantasy league. For the pool to playing the madness of the Brackets that are accessible go to: http://www.mysideline.com/u/14430/collegebbmens/default.htm To be part of the 2011 baseball season with other Blind baseball fans and family and friends. Just reply to this email asking for a team. You can check out the site by going to: http://www.fanstarbaseball.com/baseball/blindaccessi/index.php Gary Whittington --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi Dark, Could you possibly leave the message you are replying to at the bottom? Not a big deal; just wondering. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:18 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hmmm ron. I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I'm not talking about a game, but an aspect of gameplay, ie, the space around your character. You might considder having a look at the gamers list public archives for the full discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio
Hi, Phillip...Philip...do you have to make us want to snatch the game off your computer right now? Grin Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Lori Duncan Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:07 AM To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi if it's better than q-9 then it'll be a knock out! As long as it's got wepons Smile - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hi Dark, In Q9 you do hear monsters from across pits etc, but as you say the attacking and jumping mechanics are quite flat. In my upcoming game I have a very different setup. I have spent a lot of time on mechanics, such as the fact that you no longer tap an arrow key to move in the air. Also, when you begin running from a walk or a standstill you do not immediately switch to your maximum speed. Instead you gradually gain momentum until, after four or five steps, you are at your maximum. I have also expanded the concepts of weapons slightly, where each weapon has not only a maximum but also a minimum range. To use a rifle, for instance, you need to back off a bit from the target before you can fire, and the same is true for the spear. The knife and the revolver, on the other hand, are better for close range combat. This all makes for a much more dynamic gaming experience, and coupled with the vastly improved artificial intelligence of the creatures in the game I am hoping to have a much better product than Q9 coming up. smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Reviewing space in audio Hello Darren. Actually thinking about it, you've probably hit the nail exactly on the head. You talk about showing in audio how far to jump say like in Jim's golf game where your told what a shot is and then must judge the distance. However, in a graphical game you are never told this at all you are merely presented with an obstacle and it's up to you to work out how to get round it, rather than there being a set way. For instance, you might get over a long pit either by doing a normal jump from directly on the edge, or by doing a running jump from further back. While I do agree a more analogue and free form system in audio is more work to come up with, I certainly don't think it's impossible, and the bennifits to making addictive games are hugely worth it. To take your example, look at these two different situations: 1: you press a key once to jump over a pit, then are attacked and must defend yourself the instance after. or 2: you can here! a monster on the other side of the pit and must either use a ranged attack, or wait until the monster backs off to jump across. the first situation is similar to a game like Q9 or superliam, and just perpetuates the issue we have now. yes, the first time it will probably be a surprise, but after only a couple of playthroughs, you'll be expecting that attack once your across the pit. The second case however gives you more options, and indeed forces you to take into account the environment around you. I actually think not enough has really been done with the possibilities of environmental sound in a 2D contex, for instance, using the pitch of wind to show the depths of a pit, or being abel to here monsters before engagin in attacks with them. Also, to my knolidge no audio game has ever used the more analogue style movement which has been in mainstream games sinse the early 80's, where by your characters' jump high or walking speed are tied to holding down a button not merely pressing it. This is quite possible to do in audio (look at the rai racer jets), I'm just rather confused as to why nobody has yet implemented it in a game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched
Re: [Audyssey] Aurifi
That's possible. I thought it was an awfully long game for the price. He he he. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Raul A. Gallegos r...@asmodean.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aurifi Hi, I do't believe you do. It just keeps going on and on, eventually so you don't hear your guide's voice as much. On 3/15/2011 9:15 PM, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi, How do you finish the game, anyway? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Lori Duncan Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:47 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Aurifi Hi I do enjoy playing it, but this tilting and keeping the radio tuning sort of noise in the middle is a struggle, it always manages to escape no matter how fast or slow I tilt it then i get the ever so nice message lets run through that again and it drives me mad! :( - Original Message - From: Charles Rivardwoofer...@sbcglobal.net To: audyssey gamers listgamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:30 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Aurifi Has anyone completed the game, and what are your impressions? I haven,'t finished it, but think it is neat little entertainer. Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Raul A. Gallegos Home page: http://www.RaulGallegos.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ragallegos --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] looking for 15 numbers on blindsoftware.com
Hi list I visited blindsoftware.com but could not find the 15 numbers game on there. I clicked on games but couldn't find it there. I clicked on educational but I couldn't find it there either. I will write to bsc support about this but I just thought of asking you all if you guys were recently able to download the demo of 15 numbers. Any feedback is much appreciated. Nicol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] looking for 15 numbers on blindsoftware.com
Hi Nicol. That's most odd, it doesn't seem to be there. I do wonder though if bsc have actually just decided to discontinue that game being as several other versions are available for free, for instance the one from spoonbill and the one available in klango. Actually I think the Klango one is rather more advanced than bsc's was. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: NIcol nicoljaco...@telkomsa.net To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 9:19 PM Subject: [Audyssey] looking for 15 numbers on blindsoftware.com Hi list I visited blindsoftware.com but could not find the 15 numbers game on there. I clicked on games but couldn't find it there. I clicked on educational but I couldn't find it there either. I will write to bsc support about this but I just thought of asking you all if you guys were recently able to download the demo of 15 numbers. Any feedback is much appreciated. Nicol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
