Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam?
Philip, sorry for the off topic but can I ask, what is the stage of the upcoming game? I am wandering too much these times. saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam? Hi Kevin, I actually tried AutoIt for game development but found that it doesn't work too well. Sure you can make a few simple things with it, but it seriously falls behind if you start getting into speed critical things because it does no pre-compilation into an instruction tree/intermediate byte code set, it interprets everything on the fly. That is why I built BGT in the first place, because I wanted a high level game engine that ran fast. And just like Thomas mentions regarding his engine, BGT is pretty much the same in that regard. The components do work together in a few cases, but for the most part they are separate little libraries that are all linked into the same executable in the end. The latest version has seen significant improvements both in the feature set and in the over-all performance, and therefore I am using it for all of my own games now. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig weis...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam? Hi, This is a really, really nice explanation and sum-up of everything. Very well written, I couldn't have done it any better. Sure, to write a basic concept of a game very quickly, BGT would be enough. But then, to compile it, you would have to purchase the lite version ($30) already. Of course you would get that back if you get pre-orders, but still. Then you could use Autoit. In itself, I think Autoit is very neat, I even have seen a couple of games including graphics written in it. And as I do use it myself, I can say that getting a game up and running is very easy and can be done extremely quickly. So, it all depends on what you want to use, how much time you have, and pretty much that. Sent from my iPhone On 13.06.2011, at 20:11, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Well, the time it takes to actually create a game depends on a number of factors. The development tools, programming language, plus the amount of available free time a developer has on hand in the first place. For example, I am currently writing all of my game code in C++. That takes considerably more time than say Visual Basic because there is a lot more involved in getting a basic game up and running. C++ is a lot more low-level, bare bones, meaning you have to go the extra mile to get things done. Using something like DirectSound is a perfect example of this. If you use C++ and Microsoft's DirectSound API there are no native functions available to open and load wavs, mp3s, or wma files into a sound buffer. Its up to you, the game developer, to write that code using something like Microsoft's WinMM.dll to load that sound data, and then pass that off to an available sound buffer. With a language like Visual Basic 6 you can just add DX8VB.dll to your VB project, and you don't have to worry about writing your own code to open and load sound files. Microsoft has done all the grunt work for you, and have wrapped DirectX with a piece of middleware, DX8VB.dll, that simplifies the process of initializing DirectX, handling sound data, and you can focus on more important things like writing your game. This is why I suspect most game developers like Jeremy and Jim Kitchen use VB. Its just easier and speeds up time, because it is designed for rapid design and deployment where C++ was not. That's why Philip Bennefall and I both have written game engines/toolkits. Since all the really low-level stuff like audio, input, speech, whatever is something we are going to use in every single game it makes sense to build some sort of middleware that gives a quick and easy interface to DirectX, Sapi, and so on. I'm not sure of BGT's over all design, but I can say G3D is essentually several static libraries I wrote to wrap DirectX and the Windows API. For instance, input.lib wraps DirectInput, speech.lib wraps MS Sapi, window.lib wraps the WWin32 API, and I purchased streemway.lib from Philip to wrap DirectSound. All of these libraries gives me that easy access you get out of the box with Visual Basic or one of the .Net languages because all that work is done for you. So obviously this takes us more time in getting started than someone starting out with a different language, because we have to write all that initial code, helper classes, and functions. Bottom line, if I want to be a little speed demon like Jeremy I could do that too provided I chose to use something else other than C++. Give me C# .Net or VB .Net, the open source Slim DX API for DirectX, and
Re: [Audyssey] Games we'd like to play, scammers 4
Hello Ken. We appreciate your thoughts about the scammers' series and the feedback you've given, however please be aware that two years ago Scammers 3 was produced by a completely different company, that just happened by shear coincidence to have the same name as ours. We would however be very pleased to offer you a completely new copy of Scammers 3 for the reduced price of 700 dollars. Please send us money and your copy will be on the way within the week, ro the month, or maybe the century! ;D. Yours insincerely, Jack m good, head grifter, er I mean programmer, of headsgone soft. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun
Indeed, a tripple bogie it would seem, obviously I blew my nose too vigorously, ;D. HEre is the link, as I said file naming didn't work as I'd hoped because I didn't know the course maker didn't like commas in file names, so Jim might want to rename this. It's a course with everyone from accessible games, sort of a gangs all here, and here is the link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/e6leg4 Oh, and btw, bogies and nose blowing is a reference to British slang, and comes up in harry potter. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 1:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun It was a triple bogey. (ornery grin) --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig weis...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun Hi, I'm not sure if this was planned, but I can't really see any message body. Is this supposed to be? Sent from my iPhone On 13.06.2011, at 20:23, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Games we'd like to play, scammers 4
Dark, You can very good a fake developer. :) :) ahahahahahaha saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: The Addictor kenwdow...@neo.rr.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Games we'd like to play, scammers 4 Hello Ken. We appreciate your thoughts about the scammers' series and the feedback you've given, however please be aware that two years ago Scammers 3 was produced by a completely different company, that just happened by shear coincidence to have the same name as ours. We would however be very pleased to offer you a completely new copy of Scammers 3 for the reduced price of 700 dollars. Please send us money and your copy will be on the way within the week, ro the month, or maybe the century! ;D. Yours insincerely, Jack m good, head grifter, er I mean programmer, of headsgone soft. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun
Hi Dark, I am not positive, but I do not think that commas are ever a good thing in a file name. I just for a test tried to copy an existing file giving it a comma and it gave me an error. That was at the command prompt. I guess it will work if you use f2 in Windows, but I believe that VB6 would not like it as a comma is a delimiter in VB6. I'll give it a try some time though. But I also am not sure what you meant about me changing the name of the file. BFN Jim Don't use commas, which, aren't necessary. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun
Hi Jim. I meant just renaming it to something that worked minus the comma, sinse I didn't notice the mistake until after I'd uploaded it. I just wanted the comma for gramatical reasons to deliniate the title from the subt title in the name, but if this isn't workable fair enough. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net To: dark Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] golf course for fun Hi Dark, I am not positive, but I do not think that commas are ever a good thing in a file name. I just for a test tried to copy an existing file giving it a comma and it gave me an error. That was at the command prompt. I guess it will work if you use f2 in Windows, but I believe that VB6 would not like it as a comma is a delimiter in VB6. I'll give it a try some time though. But I also am not sure what you meant about me changing the name of the file. BFN Jim Don't use commas, which, aren't necessary. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
That is just it a rep. Don't think that will go far in the blind community. Because, they don't care, Oh, they say they do and at many time actually do. However, when it comes to games. Your dealing with very http://www.google.com/hws//hws/search?br=client=dell-usukchannel=us-pspsafe=highadsafe=highhl=enie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=viciousvicious people that strikeout at will. Just look at what was done when they found out Tom had to stop and rewrite, because someone nailed him for a copy right. Yes, I think someone turned him in, because hardly anyone sighted bothers with this list. Also I do know blind people that will go that mile just to see something destroyed. I went to the site Tom gave that hit him. It was there and a joke if you ask, but still the same had a claim to the game. Surprising! Tom had his rep with previous games that were already out. So if anyone doubts, there lose. At 08:33 PM 6/13/2011, you wrote: The reputation it should give him is one of taking the time and continually making the effort to get it right. The key word here is should. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Trouble, While I definitely agree up to a point, I think we'd have a whole lot more griping and complaining if this thing wasn't released until Christmas. Even if the primary focus of Thomas himself, I can't say what kind of reputation that would give him.Best Regards, Hayden -- From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support If you want to support other platforms with your games that is your business.Getting ideas from the community is good. But the work of the game is done by you and only you. So yeah there is going to be time delays and drag outs with problems. I think there are only 2 targets any game producer should try for and that is summer and Christmas. If they come in those to time periods good and if not then would only give out updates until a releasable demo is at hand. Don't let them tell you how to code or what to code. Releasable demos are for finding bugs and that is all they do. When the bugs are fixed you release again. Each time brings you closer to Finnish. By adding things to each release. Gives you nothing or very little to release in updates or next version. You have to keep some goodies back for just that reason. It also causes bugs witch delays the final release that much more. At 05:28 PM 6/12/2011, you wrote: Hi Pitr, That all sounds well and good except for one thing you are over looking. Who am I writing this game for? You or me? Why am I writing these games in the first place? Well, to answer the first question I thought i was writing the games for myself, because they are games I like and wanted to play. If I could sell them and make a little money off of them that would be fine, but I'm not writing them for the audio games community specifically. It might sound selfish but if I can't write the games for my own personal enjoyment then there is absolutely no point in writing them in the first place. As for the second question, I started writing games because at the time I thought it was enjoyable, something fun, and really liked it before I got caught up in the Alchemy crap. Now though, every time I sit down to work on MOTA I just want to quit. In fact, I'd go far to say I hate writing games, because the experience has become so much of a hastle for me. I want to write my games one way, but the community wants me to write it another. For you its easy to sit there and say forget writing the games for Linux, ditch the Linux version, because that's only for a small handful of people. One of those handful of people is me. So if I'm not writing versions of MOTA I can personally use or play I might as well refund the community their money and close USA Games. There would be no point in continuing to write games if I have to make them for Windows, and still not be able to play them on Linux myself. Is that what you want me to do? In any case this was not the point of my e-mail. My point was to find a solution so that I could do both. If you aren't giving me cunstructive advice how to do that you are just muddying the thread with an option I can not and will not accept. Dropping support for Linux is not an option for me. So stop trying to talk me out of it. Cheers! On 6/12/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I see is why target linux instead of mac? Ok, you use ubuntu yourself, but then It's pretty clear that the mac community is really outnumbering the linux one. And we're not taking windows into consideration. I
Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam?
I don't think he had any intentions and yes he did prove to be a scam. Even though he turned over something like work to Tom. he got prepaid for some and never delivered. I personally know someone that ordered raceway, and every email sent was unanswered. After a year and a half. They still had no update or game. That is a scam. The law states in any company a service offered and paid for has to be done in a timely manner. Anything paid for and never delivered on is called frod! You can say what you want, but when turned in for frod he disappeared when the law hit home. I am just glad I wasn't one of the dozens that got nailed by him. At 08:15 PM 6/13/2011, you wrote: And Max Shrapnel? Did he have the best of intentions on that one, too? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:06 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam? Hi Bryan, True, but often times this community jumps to the wrong conclusion when they don't have any evidence to prove their opinions false. Here is a case in point. Back in 2005 when James North had not produced working copies of Montezuma's Revenge and Raceway there was this huge group of people who said it was all a scam. That opinion was false as I happen to have the original source code, written in VB 6, for Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge that proves he was in deed working on those games as well as his changelog files etc. From what I seen of reading through his personal notes and such is that there would be long stretches between updates. He might start working on something on a Sunday, stop working on it for a few days, and take up with it on Friday night. This looks to me like a man working around a busy schedule rather than someone who was outright trying to scam people. As to why he would say the game would be released on x, and turn around and then say it was not ready I'll never know. All I can say based on his notes is that he was in deed working on it, but progress was slow and spread out over a haphazard schedule. If James North had just been more forthcoming about his work schedule people might have understood, but since he said nothing people asumed the worst. Bottom line, I think we could be seeing something very similar. I'm pretty sure Jake has no intention to scam people. It is more likely there have been delays, setbacks, he never planned on and regardless of what he says or does there will be a few people who won't believe a word he says until he produces the game. If he does produce it I'm also pretty certain his detracters will not be man or woman enough to apologise for dragging his name through the mud. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam?
Hi, I don't want to get into the which language is better than language x debate again, but I do want to say that I've also tried AutoIt, and its really not ideal for any serious game development. There is the speed critical issues like Philip said, and there is security issues that need to be taken into consideration too. If you are a commercial developer like Philip and I a developer needs a language that can't easily be reverse engineered and converted back into readable code, and unfortunately AutoIt apps can be hacked very easily. A number of runtime languages have this issue, and a commercial developer ends up having to pay extra money on development tools to obfuscate or some other method of keeping the code from being cracked. For instance, take Java. It is a language I rather like because it is fast, portible, and is fairly easy to learn compared to something like C++. One of its down sides though is security. A developer needs an obfuscation tool to scramble the compiled *.class files otherwise a cracker can simply unpack the jar files with jar, run the class files through a decompiler, convert them back to readable Java source code, make whatever changes are needed, recompile the class files with javac, repack the jar file with jar, and have himself or herself a free software product. AutoIt has similar security risks for a developer, and and is why I would not recommend it for anyone looking at creating commercial games. That's not to say C++ apps can't be reversed engineered, but it takes a bit more technical skill to do it. A lot of times a cracker has to read the actual assembly code which is harder than C or C++. This can be prevented by encrypting the binary. Then, there are the speed critical issues Philip mentioned. The reason why Philip and I both picked C++ is it runs faster, has better low-level access to the hardware and APIs for the target platform, and you can always wrap that engine using a high-level scripting language like Angelscript, TCL, whatever. Angelscript just doesn't quite cut it when it comes to issues like that. Cheers! On 6/13/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Kevin, I actually tried AutoIt for game development but found that it doesn't work too well. Sure you can make a few simple things with it, but it seriously falls behind if you start getting into speed critical things because it does no pre-compilation into an instruction tree/intermediate byte code set, it interprets everything on the fly. That is why I built BGT in the first place, because I wanted a high level game engine that ran fast. And just like Thomas mentions regarding his engine, BGT is pretty much the same in that regard. The components do work together in a few cases, but for the most part they are separate little libraries that are all linked into the same executable in the end. The latest version has seen significant improvements both in the feature set and in the over-all performance, and therefore I am using it for all of my own games now. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam?
Hi guys, Regardless of how you come down on the issue I do have both VB 6 and VB .Net copies of USA Raceway. It is not complete, but I can say the game was in development when I took over the project. As I understand it James North had just start converting his games to VB .Net a little prior to when I took over them, and that would justifiable delay releases if you take in account he had to rewrite everything to take advantage of the newer .Net platform and technologies. So if that's a scam in your book so be it, but I have evidence that says differently. Cheers! On 6/14/11, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: I don't think he had any intentions and yes he did prove to be a scam. Even though he turned over something like work to Tom. he got prepaid for some and never delivered. I personally know someone that ordered raceway, and every email sent was unanswered. After a year and a half. They still had no update or game. That is a scam. The law states in any company a service offered and paid for has to be done in a timely manner. Anything paid for and never delivered on is called frod! You can say what you want, but when turned in for frod he disappeared when the law hit home. I am just glad I wasn't one of the dozens that got nailed by him. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
I don't have a problem with the current sound system, I would say if you needed to convert it to something else later, but I understand that would create a lot of work. Thanks, Mike --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Trouble and all, Well, I think alot of it comes down to a lack of patients and a complete lack of understanding where developers and development is concerned. Many of the people quick to point fingers, quick to make judgments, etc have no personal experience with any kind of long term project. Which programming games is a long term project and commitment that requires time, skill, and experience to bring to completion. Therefore they have unrealistic expectations about how and when the project should be completed, and even jump to the wrong conclusion when things aren't going the way the expect them too. For instance, when I decided to compile beta 19 using the cross-platform Genesis engine I knew joystick support and mouse support wasn't fully operational yet so I removed them from the settings menu, and I also knew that the audio panning was way off. I only intended these to be temporary issues, problems, and my purpose of testing beta 19 was to find out if the basic engine was sound, would run on a number of Linux and Windows PCs, and after I found that out I'd go back in and fix the joystick support, mouse support, and see what if anything I could do about the audio later. My soul purpose was to find out if the basic engine ran ok on a number of Windows PCs and Linux PCs. However, the community at large didn't understand what I was doing. Right off I got a lot of e-mails on and off list saying that the beta sucked. There was no joystick support, no mouse support, and the panning was terrible. If creating cross-platform games was going to be like this one they weren't going to buy the game etc. In other words they expected this release to be as good as or better than beta 18 and didn't understand I was going to address those issues in future betas. For the moment all I wanted to know from them is how well did the game work besides the audio and missing game controller support. Apparently it must have worked ok, because the only complaints I got were the obvious ones I knew about. Basically, my point in saying this is that if these people were more use to the way developers really worked, perhaps test software on a regular basis, they wouldn't be as judgmental. I've tested Linux open source applications where the developer says, try this and let me know how it works, and sometimes it fixes something and sometimes it breaks something in the process, and the developer has to find out why it broke and fix it. For instance, we have a similar issue right now on Linux with the new Gnome 3.0 desktop. When the Gnome developers moved from the 2.x branch to the 3.0 branch they made a lot of changes that ended up breaking some accessibility with Orca and AT-SPI in the process. The only way the Gnome developers are going to be able to resolve it is by having Orca users test it, find out what broke, report those bugs, and the developers will address and fix all of those issues in the Gnome 3.2 version. Sometimes its a case of take two steps foward and one step back. I.E. development by trial and error. Cheers! On 6/14/11, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: That is just it a rep. Don't think that will go far in the blind community. Because, they don't care, Oh, they say they do and at many time actually do. However, when it comes to games. Your dealing with very http://www.google.com/hws//hws/search?br=client=dell-usukchannel=us-pspsafe=highadsafe=highhl=enie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=viciousvicious people that strikeout at will. Just look at what was done when they found out Tom had to stop and rewrite, because someone nailed him for a copy right. Yes, I think someone turned him in, because hardly anyone sighted bothers with this list. Also I do know blind people that will go that mile just to see something destroyed. I went to the site Tom gave that hit him. It was there and a joke if you ask, but still the same had a claim to the game. Surprising! Tom had his rep with previous games that were already out. So if anyone doubts, there lose. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Thomas, I wanted to offer my two cents here, in case the feedback may be useful to you in some way. I think the reaction you got was very much to be expected since, at least to me, your intentions were not too clear. All that people really knew was that there was a new cross platform beta, and that a bunch of features were removed or degraded in performance. I think if you had posted the message that you just sent now, along with the actual beta announcement, things would have been a lot clearer. You could even have called it an experimental alpha, which would have stressed the fact that this was not production code but rather a testing ground even more strongly. This is also why I don't release public betas myself, because I don't want to communicate with the community at large while I am doing tests on bleeding edge code that may or may not perform as people expect. With a smaller group of testers you can make things a lot more obvious, what you want them to test and what issues are known etc. With a fully fledged community tested project as Mota has very nearly become, you'll always run into issues like this. Especially since the cross platform endeavour, while naturally important to you personally, is not something that a lot of purely Windows folks will have use for and thus will not really take into consideration when judging your software. This, at any rate, is my feeling for games. BGT was totally different since it was a lot more modular, rather than one specific story so to speak. There the public testing really worked wonders, but I would not do the same for a game. This is not to say that community testing of games is always bad. Far from it. With Entombed, for instance, I think it worked rather well. But when a developer decides to do it they naturally have to consider if it is worth the extra work that it takes to keep everyone up to speed with what needs to be tested in this particular release, what known problems there are, etc etc. As always, these are just my own personal views. I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Trouble and all, Well, I think alot of it comes down to a lack of patients and a complete lack of understanding where developers and development is concerned. Many of the people quick to point fingers, quick to make judgments, etc have no personal experience with any kind of long term project. Which programming games is a long term project and commitment that requires time, skill, and experience to bring to completion. Therefore they have unrealistic expectations about how and when the project should be completed, and even jump to the wrong conclusion when things aren't going the way the expect them too. For instance, when I decided to compile beta 19 using the cross-platform Genesis engine I knew joystick support and mouse support wasn't fully operational yet so I removed them from the settings menu, and I also knew that the audio panning was way off. I only intended these to be temporary issues, problems, and my purpose of testing beta 19 was to find out if the basic engine was sound, would run on a number of Linux and Windows PCs, and after I found that out I'd go back in and fix the joystick support, mouse support, and see what if anything I could do about the audio later. My soul purpose was to find out if the basic engine ran ok on a number of Windows PCs and Linux PCs. However, the community at large didn't understand what I was doing. Right off I got a lot of e-mails on and off list saying that the beta sucked. There was no joystick support, no mouse support, and the panning was terrible. If creating cross-platform games was going to be like this one they weren't going to buy the game etc. In other words they expected this release to be as good as or better than beta 18 and didn't understand I was going to address those issues in future betas. For the moment all I wanted to know from them is how well did the game work besides the audio and missing game controller support. Apparently it must have worked ok, because the only complaints I got were the obvious ones I knew about. Basically, my point in saying this is that if these people were more use to the way developers really worked, perhaps test software on a regular basis, they wouldn't be as judgmental. I've tested Linux open source applications where the developer says, try this and let me know how it works, and sometimes it fixes something and sometimes it breaks something in the process, and the developer has to find out why it broke and fix it. For instance, we have a similar issue right now on Linux with the new Gnome 3.0 desktop. When the Gnome developers moved from the 2.x branch to the 3.0 branch they made a lot of changes
[Audyssey] A question for Aprone
Or to anyone that might know the answer really. This isn't really audio game based, but I feel it's important enough to bring it to everyone's attention. Reason I mentioned Aprone specifically is that since he enjoys working on small projects, then perhaps he's already created something like this in the past. I'm looking for a program that's able to turn off my laptop's display. when I go somewhere with my laptop, I get a little paranoid due to the fact I've no idea if anyone's reading what I'm doing over my shoulder. thing is this laptop won't allow me to turn off my display. at least not that I know of. can this actually be done with software? I know there are programs that can turn the display off, but as soon as one starts typing the displays switches itself back on. this of course, makes the programs useless. I'm willing to pay anyone that can code this as I've been looking for such a program for a very long time and can't find one. I think it's a real necessity for us blind computer users for piece of mind purposes. thanks for any help you guys can provide! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Aprone
Hi Yohandy, This can be done through the Windows API. I am always available for small projects like this for hire, so please write me off list if you are interested. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:19 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A question for Aprone Or to anyone that might know the answer really. This isn't really audio game based, but I feel it's important enough to bring it to everyone's attention. Reason I mentioned Aprone specifically is that since he enjoys working on small projects, then perhaps he's already created something like this in the past. I'm looking for a program that's able to turn off my laptop's display. when I go somewhere with my laptop, I get a little paranoid due to the fact I've no idea if anyone's reading what I'm doing over my shoulder. thing is this laptop won't allow me to turn off my display. at least not that I know of. can this actually be done with software? I know there are programs that can turn the display off, but as soon as one starts typing the displays switches itself back on. this of course, makes the programs useless. I'm willing to pay anyone that can code this as I've been looking for such a program for a very long time and can't find one. I think it's a real necessity for us blind computer users for piece of mind purposes. thanks for any help you guys can provide! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Airik the Cleric a scam?
Hi, *sighs* That was so totally not what I was trying to say. All I really wanted to do is add my opinion on the scam deal, and not talk about Autoit's Problems (Which I'm fully aware about BTW). I was just trying to say that it is possible to throw something together, promissing Enouhg for someone to preorder anything. Sent from my iPhone On 14.06.2011, at 16:07, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I don't want to get into the which language is better than language x debate again, but I do want to say that I've also tried AutoIt, and its really not ideal for any serious game development. There is the speed critical issues like Philip said, and there is security issues that need to be taken into consideration too. If you are a commercial developer like Philip and I a developer needs a language that can't easily be reverse engineered and converted back into readable code, and unfortunately AutoIt apps can be hacked very easily. A number of runtime languages have this issue, and a commercial developer ends up having to pay extra money on development tools to obfuscate or some other method of keeping the code from being cracked. For instance, take Java. It is a language I rather like because it is fast, portible, and is fairly easy to learn compared to something like C++. One of its down sides though is security. A developer needs an obfuscation tool to scramble the compiled *.class files otherwise a cracker can simply unpack the jar files with jar, run the class files through a decompiler, convert them back to readable Java source code, make whatever changes are needed, recompile the class files with javac, repack the jar file with jar, and have himself or herself a free software product. AutoIt has similar security risks for a developer, and and is why I would not recommend it for anyone looking at creating commercial games. That's not to say C++ apps can't be reversed engineered, but it takes a bit more technical skill to do it. A lot of times a cracker has to read the actual assembly code which is harder than C or C++. This can be prevented by encrypting the binary. Then, there are the speed critical issues Philip mentioned. The reason why Philip and I both picked C++ is it runs faster, has better low-level access to the hardware and APIs for the target platform, and you can always wrap that engine using a high-level scripting language like Angelscript, TCL, whatever. Angelscript just doesn't quite cut it when it comes to issues like that. Cheers! On 6/13/11, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Kevin, I actually tried AutoIt for game development but found that it doesn't work too well. Sure you can make a few simple things with it, but it seriously falls behind if you start getting into speed critical things because it does no pre-compilation into an instruction tree/intermediate byte code set, it interprets everything on the fly. That is why I built BGT in the first place, because I wanted a high level game engine that ran fast. And just like Thomas mentions regarding his engine, BGT is pretty much the same in that regard. The components do work together in a few cases, but for the most part they are separate little libraries that are all linked into the same executable in the end. The latest version has seen significant improvements both in the feature set and in the over-all performance, and therefore I am using it for all of my own games now. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Developing games takes logic and planning. Playing the games does not. I've never figured out why people think that a beta of a game is the finished product. If something is wrong with a beta, the same problem will exist in the marketed game. It just doesn't make any sense. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Trouble and all, Well, I think alot of it comes down to a lack of patients and a complete lack of understanding where developers and development is concerned. Many of the people quick to point fingers, quick to make judgments, etc have no personal experience with any kind of long term project. Which programming games is a long term project and commitment that requires time, skill, and experience to bring to completion. Therefore they have unrealistic expectations about how and when the project should be completed, and even jump to the wrong conclusion when things aren't going the way the expect them too. For instance, when I decided to compile beta 19 using the cross-platform Genesis engine I knew joystick support and mouse support wasn't fully operational yet so I removed them from the settings menu, and I also knew that the audio panning was way off. I only intended these to be temporary issues, problems, and my purpose of testing beta 19 was to find out if the basic engine was sound, would run on a number of Linux and Windows PCs, and after I found that out I'd go back in and fix the joystick support, mouse support, and see what if anything I could do about the audio later. My soul purpose was to find out if the basic engine ran ok on a number of Windows PCs and Linux PCs. However, the community at large didn't understand what I was doing. Right off I got a lot of e-mails on and off list saying that the beta sucked. There was no joystick support, no mouse support, and the panning was terrible. If creating cross-platform games was going to be like this one they weren't going to buy the game etc. In other words they expected this release to be as good as or better than beta 18 and didn't understand I was going to address those issues in future betas. For the moment all I wanted to know from them is how well did the game work besides the audio and missing game controller support. Apparently it must have worked ok, because the only complaints I got were the obvious ones I knew about. Basically, my point in saying this is that if these people were more use to the way developers really worked, perhaps test software on a regular basis, they wouldn't be as judgmental. I've tested Linux open source applications where the developer says, try this and let me know how it works, and sometimes it fixes something and sometimes it breaks something in the process, and the developer has to find out why it broke and fix it. For instance, we have a similar issue right now on Linux with the new Gnome 3.0 desktop. When the Gnome developers moved from the 2.x branch to the 3.0 branch they made a lot of changes that ended up breaking some accessibility with Orca and AT-SPI in the process. The only way the Gnome developers are going to be able to resolve it is by having Orca users test it, find out what broke, report those bugs, and the developers will address and fix all of those issues in the Gnome 3.2 version. Sometimes its a case of take two steps foward and one step back. I.E. development by trial and error. Cheers! On 6/14/11, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: That is just it a rep. Don't think that will go far in the blind community. Because, they don't care, Oh, they say they do and at many time actually do. However, when it comes to games. Your dealing with very http://www.google.com/hws//hws/search?br=client=dell-usukchannel=us-pspsafe=highadsafe=highhl=enie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=viciousvicious people that strikeout at will. Just look at what was done when they found out Tom had to stop and rewrite, because someone nailed him for a copy right. Yes, I think someone turned him in, because hardly anyone sighted bothers with this list. Also I do know blind people that will go that mile just to see something destroyed. I went to the site Tom gave that hit him. It was there and a joke if you ask, but still the same had a claim to the game. Surprising! Tom had his rep with previous games that were already out. So if anyone doubts, there lose. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Philip, Well, I think you are right. The primary mistake I made with beta 19 was simply that I didn't explain to the end users that this was to be considered an experimental release only and not in anyway a full production release. Beta 18 was an official production release were beta 19 wasn't. Beta 19 was an experiment to see how well the cross-platform engine run on Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 which I should have been up front about from the beginning. Plus I didn't say why I had removed joystick and mouse support, and people assumed the worst and thought that I was intending on taking it out of the final release when it was only intended for that specific release or build only. The thing is, and I wish I had made this clearer from the beginning, what we have is two different engines more or less in production at the same time. I've got the Windows specific version of the engine which is definitely production quality, has been in development for a couple of years, and is fairly stable. Then, we've got the cross-platform or Linux version of the engine that isn't yet production quality mainly because I haven't found something comparable to DirectX I can replace those components with. I've not actually converted the full Windows engine over to Linux yet so there are a lot of things that need doing like adding joystick support, for example, before it is 100% up to par for writing production quality games as is in evidence with beta 19. Plus I confess when it comes to writing applications for Linux I'm still largely in the dark about many of the libraries and APIs it uses. I've been writing both private and professional software for Windows for probably 10 years so when it comes to Windows core APIs and components I pretty much know what I'm doing so I can put together something pretty quickly and it will be pretty stable because of my past experience. With Linux if you tell me to write an application using one of the graphics toolkits like GTK+, QT, WX, etc I'm going to have to study up on it, write some experimental code, etc because I have no background experience working with those APIs. The only times I've been called upon to write a professional application for Linux such as a graphical front end for a MySQL database I wrote it in Java using the cross-platform Swing toolkit, and since Java is all pretty self-contained that doesn't count as practical experience for what i'm doing now with this cross-platform engine. So its all pretty much experimental code at this point as far as the cross-platform engine is concerned. I think the best thing to do right now is to finish MOTA using the Windows specific engine since it is production quality, get the game sold using that technology, and put off finishing the cross-platform engine until that is out of the way. That way when I say I've got an experimental release that might be cross-platform people aren't going to be as upset with me because if they don't like the experimental cross-platform version they can fallback on 1.0 which is stable and up to their personal standards. The lesson I've learned is this. First, be up front about my intentions, long term goals or plans, and people will understand what I'm after. Second, attach, if possible, a buglog.txt file to the release so people will be informed what problems are in the release and what is on the todo list for the next upgrade. Third, don't try and remove a bunch of features after you just released them in a prior release as some people aren't going to respond well to bleeding edge code regardless of how temporary the removal might or might not be. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Thomas, I agree with all of your points 100 %. Get the Windows version out the door, make some actual cash, and spend the money making a great cross platform engine. Best of luck! Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Philip, Well, I think you are right. The primary mistake I made with beta 19 was simply that I didn't explain to the end users that this was to be considered an experimental release only and not in anyway a full production release. Beta 18 was an official production release were beta 19 wasn't. Beta 19 was an experiment to see how well the cross-platform engine run on Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 which I should have been up front about from the beginning. Plus I didn't say why I had removed joystick and mouse support, and people assumed the worst and thought that I was intending on taking it out of the final release when it was only intended for that specific release or build only. The thing is, and I wish I had made this clearer from the beginning, what we have is two different engines more or less in production at the same time. I've got the Windows specific version of the engine which is definitely production quality, has been in development for a couple of years, and is fairly stable. Then, we've got the cross-platform or Linux version of the engine that isn't yet production quality mainly because I haven't found something comparable to DirectX I can replace those components with. I've not actually converted the full Windows engine over to Linux yet so there are a lot of things that need doing like adding joystick support, for example, before it is 100% up to par for writing production quality games as is in evidence with beta 19. Plus I confess when it comes to writing applications for Linux I'm still largely in the dark about many of the libraries and APIs it uses. I've been writing both private and professional software for Windows for probably 10 years so when it comes to Windows core APIs and components I pretty much know what I'm doing so I can put together something pretty quickly and it will be pretty stable because of my past experience. With Linux if you tell me to write an application using one of the graphics toolkits like GTK+, QT, WX, etc I'm going to have to study up on it, write some experimental code, etc because I have no background experience working with those APIs. The only times I've been called upon to write a professional application for Linux such as a graphical front end for a MySQL database I wrote it in Java using the cross-platform Swing toolkit, and since Java is all pretty self-contained that doesn't count as practical experience for what i'm doing now with this cross-platform engine. So its all pretty much experimental code at this point as far as the cross-platform engine is concerned. I think the best thing to do right now is to finish MOTA using the Windows specific engine since it is production quality, get the game sold using that technology, and put off finishing the cross-platform engine until that is out of the way. That way when I say I've got an experimental release that might be cross-platform people aren't going to be as upset with me because if they don't like the experimental cross-platform version they can fallback on 1.0 which is stable and up to their personal standards. The lesson I've learned is this. First, be up front about my intentions, long term goals or plans, and people will understand what I'm after. Second, attach, if possible, a buglog.txt file to the release so people will be informed what problems are in the release and what is on the todo list for the next upgrade. Third, don't try and remove a bunch of features after you just released them in a prior release as some people aren't going to respond well to bleeding edge code regardless of how temporary the removal might or might not be. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Thomas, I suspect the main problem is the number 19. If you had called it MOTA cross platform beta 1, then I think fewer people would have complained. Smiles, Phil - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Charles, I think the answer lies in the fact most people are only concerned with playing the game rather than testing it. With beta 19 I released a version based on bleeding edge experimental code and that didn't go over too well as it wasn't one of my more polished production releases like beta 18. So when I was looking for the community to actually do some testing what I got were complaints dealing with the fact they couldn't play it because the audio was crappy, no joystick support, mouse support, etc when I wasn't expecting them to treat it as a production release but a test release only. My attempts backfired because it wasn't really a playable demo based on stable production code. So when it turned out not to be a stable polished demo they could play without problems they complained loudly. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Another Test, Please Disregard
Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
Hi Phil, I suppose you are right. Calling it beta 19, as in following beta 18, wasn't the best move as beta 19 wasn't exactly a production release and more of an experimental release as I have said. Next time I feel inclined to test something like that I'll clearly indicate this release is not to be confused with the current production releases. Cheers! On 6/14/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I suspect the main problem is the number 19. If you had called it MOTA cross platform beta 1, then I think fewer people would have complained. Smiles, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Aprone
Thanks for thinking of me, but actually I've never tried this particular thing before. It looks like you've already found someone willing to help though, so that's good. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
I still contend that a beta is just that. A trial version that is still under development. Anyone who doesn't know that will find out by, maybe, reading the documentation that comes with the game. If you state in the documentation, maybe on the download page and in the license?, that this is a beta, it still under development and is, therefore, not a final release, and that gamers are working with it at their own risk, and the gamer doesn't read it but does agree to it by using the software, it's their problem. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support Hi Philip, Well, I think you are right. The primary mistake I made with beta 19 was simply that I didn't explain to the end users that this was to be considered an experimental release only and not in anyway a full production release. Beta 18 was an official production release were beta 19 wasn't. Beta 19 was an experiment to see how well the cross-platform engine run on Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 which I should have been up front about from the beginning. Plus I didn't say why I had removed joystick and mouse support, and people assumed the worst and thought that I was intending on taking it out of the final release when it was only intended for that specific release or build only. The thing is, and I wish I had made this clearer from the beginning, what we have is two different engines more or less in production at the same time. I've got the Windows specific version of the engine which is definitely production quality, has been in development for a couple of years, and is fairly stable. Then, we've got the cross-platform or Linux version of the engine that isn't yet production quality mainly because I haven't found something comparable to DirectX I can replace those components with. I've not actually converted the full Windows engine over to Linux yet so there are a lot of things that need doing like adding joystick support, for example, before it is 100% up to par for writing production quality games as is in evidence with beta 19. Plus I confess when it comes to writing applications for Linux I'm still largely in the dark about many of the libraries and APIs it uses. I've been writing both private and professional software for Windows for probably 10 years so when it comes to Windows core APIs and components I pretty much know what I'm doing so I can put together something pretty quickly and it will be pretty stable because of my past experience. With Linux if you tell me to write an application using one of the graphics toolkits like GTK+, QT, WX, etc I'm going to have to study up on it, write some experimental code, etc because I have no background experience working with those APIs. The only times I've been called upon to write a professional application for Linux such as a graphical front end for a MySQL database I wrote it in Java using the cross-platform Swing toolkit, and since Java is all pretty self-contained that doesn't count as practical experience for what i'm doing now with this cross-platform engine. So its all pretty much experimental code at this point as far as the cross-platform engine is concerned. I think the best thing to do right now is to finish MOTA using the Windows specific engine since it is production quality, get the game sold using that technology, and put off finishing the cross-platform engine until that is out of the way. That way when I say I've got an experimental release that might be cross-platform people aren't going to be as upset with me because if they don't like the experimental cross-platform version they can fallback on 1.0 which is stable and up to their personal standards. The lesson I've learned is this. First, be up front about my intentions, long term goals or plans, and people will understand what I'm after. Second, attach, if possible, a buglog.txt file to the release so people will be informed what problems are in the release and what is on the todo list for the next upgrade. Third, don't try and remove a bunch of features after you just released them in a prior release as some people aren't going to respond well to bleeding edge code regardless of how temporary the removal might or might not be. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. ---
