Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Cara, Thank you for saying how much you like my Monopoly game. I appreciate hearing it very much. Yeah before PCS games and I started making dos games with sounds the only accessible games were the text adventure games and to some degree the on line BBS door games. It took me awhile to move on from dos to windows, but it sure is fun to be able to write games with the sapi5 engine and DirectX to play sounds. Speaking of computer comfort level, I did and still do to some extent have what I call an on line panic disorder. Even back in the dial up to a BBS days I never played the on line games. I basically did then and still to this day am only on line long enough to get and send Email and share my games. BFN Jim It's never too late to panic! [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hey Jim, yeah, I was thinking after I wrote that msg that I think it was your BlackJack game and Concentration games as well as Phil's / PCS Games Monopoly versions that were the very first audio games that a close friend turned me on to. And, as I said before, I love love love where you've gone with your Monopoly game! It rocks!!! RE: BBS's - they were a bit before my time / comfort level on the computer, but I always found it amazing and such a cool idea that people could communicate / play games with eachother all over the world with some of the creative solutions they came up with, and that it was accessible... Anyway, blah blah blah! lol! Have an awesome day and chat with ya soon!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 21, 2008, at 2:05 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Cara, Thanks. You know I think that it was Phil that told me how to add sounds to my dos games. I do remember him and I talking about it and that he had done a golf game with sounds and up loaded it to Willie Wilson's Blink Link BBS. That was the place to find games and other accessible software back then. It was also cool that when I up loaded my games to the PC Ohio BBS that the planet connect system would share them with BBSs all over the planet. Of course then Michael Feir started the Audyssey magazine and later the mailing list so that blind gamers could become like a community. I'm sorry, but I do not and probably will not in the near future own a Mac, so won't be creating games for that platform or for the UNIX brand either. You know for some reason I never have played Risk. I once made visually a computer version of the game named Twixt. It was one of the bookshelf games. I loved that game. I still have one but don't often play it any more. BFN Jim Hey you know that Mac you got, is it a big Mac? [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Jeremy, The article was called Out Of The Games Dimension, that's why the subject's weird. We're not going to have ot posts on this list, that's why we're having the whole discussion about the new list which Cara has set up for us. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
I played Double Dragon, but, Thomas, what was Legend Of Cage about? I still have iton my 24-in-one, but am still not really sure what it's about! Did you ever play Track And Field, Milk And Nuts, Spartan X, or that other game where you're a mother pig and you have to shoot all those wolves? Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Thomas, You know that before I wrote my dos card games such as black jack and draw poker we had no such games. That is why I wrote them. I like many other enjoy a game of black jack or draw poker and as I said we did not have those games before I wrote them. The same goes for many of my other dos games. I think that there is room for all types of games and I know that different people have different likes and dislikes for games. I for one do not care for the first person shooter games. And I know many others that have told me the same. I am not into violent games at all. I do like card and board games. I played them allot when I was young and still like to play them. Having them on the computer makes that possible and allot easier than on a braille board. I have never even seen Life, Master Mind or Snakes and Ladders done in a braille version. Of course I lost my sight long before you did and thus I did not get a chance to play many of the computer games that you have. The games that I played were back in the days of Pole Position, Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, bowling, baseball and football. BFN - Original Message - Hi Ari, The game I was mentioning is Termite Torpedo and is available through American Printing House for the Blind. The reason I don't favor the game is it is very simplistic. More what I would consider a childrens game than a game for adults or serious hard core gamers. However, I have always had high standards for games, and am hard to please. The kinds of games that I get really interested in is games with some complexity in them like Sound RTS where you have to manage everything from paying your army, aquiring enough food to support that army, and pay for upgrades and new buildings to better equip and support that army. Galaxy Civilization is another game I really really dig for the same reason. If I am not playing the entire civilization theme games I go for FPS games like Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, etc that has puzzle solving balanced with intense action and drama to keep you going until the credits scroll. That to me is a good game. So you can see where I am coming from when I am disappointed by seeing sighted game developers writing a game like Termite Torpedo. The game is ok, but nothing for me to write home about. I just felt, maybe just me only, that the game was targeting someone of low inteligence or was designed to target blind children rather than blind adults with commercial quality game taistes. Whichever it was I felt that the game wasn't designed to be played by a blind gamer who wants more out of accessible game developers than word puzzles, card games, and so on. In fact, the lack of my kind of games was why I got into writing games in the first place. When I was losing my sight I realised commercial game developers were not going to make their games accessible. When I discovered the accessible games market via the Audyssey magazine around 98 or 99 I was disappointed that our comunity wasn't actively trying to make 3D FPS games and other games I was use to playing for the PC. Those old Audyssey mags I was reading were talking about text adventures etc and I was so turned off with accessible gaming until GMA released Lonewolf and Shades of Doom which all comes back to the original issue that accessible games are not equal to sighted games. That brings us right back to the original issue of this thread that it is hard for blind gamers, using accessible games, to attract a sighted player to play with them. The lack of graphics is certainly a factor, but for me it was the lack of features, lack of familiarity, and lack of meeting commercial standards I was expecting to find. For example, the Jedi Knight games had full featured cut scenes, and they were in true 3D worlds. You would have to jump or use an elevator to get to another floor with in the game level. You could cross bridges or jump off of them to get back down to the main floor etc. Then, after playing all that to find out that the blind games didn't have anything like that is quite a disappointment from someone formally sighted turned blind. Jim You're a card which will have to be dealt with. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
hey, i just by chanced read this email and usually i don't read emails titled Audyssey] Out of the games dimension, but found that you were talking about game related info... can by chance when you talk about games to make sure the email is titled what ever so i know that your talking about game info? thanks. - Original Message - From: ari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension I played Double Dragon, but, Thomas, what was Legend Of Cage about? I still have iton my 24-in-one, but am still not really sure what it's about! Did you ever play Track And Field, Milk And Nuts, Spartan X, or that other game where you're a mother pig and you have to shoot all those wolves? Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Jim, agreed, yours were actually the first audio games I'd ever seen for the computer!... Personally, the card / board games I like are BlackJack (which I love) woohoo! and Monopoly! I think you've done an amazing job with your versions and I'd love to see one on the Mac, so I don't have to do Windows anymore! lol!... One game I'd love to see, which I haven't seen anyone go for yet, is Risk. I don't like the 'war' games per se, but what I like about that game in particular is that you have the entire earth to play on and strategize over, and when I'd played it, it was with a bunch of friends, so one might find themselves dealing with allies rather than single opponents... We just had fun with it... :) anyway, I think a game like that could really work well over the web, and certainly wouldn't be all that difficult to create, with the stats / AI for computer play, probably being the most difficult part. Anyway, I'm straying a bit, so I'll just close by thanking you for your work which made some great games realities for the VI community on the computer!... Have an awesome day!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 20, 2008, at 1:38 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Thomas, You know that before I wrote my dos card games such as black jack and draw poker we had no such games. That is why I wrote them. I like many other enjoy a game of black jack or draw poker and as I said we did not have those games before I wrote them. The same goes for many of my other dos games. I think that there is room for all types of games and I know that different people have different likes and dislikes for games. I for one do not care for the first person shooter games. And I know many others that have told me the same. I am not into violent games at all. I do like card and board games. I played them allot when I was young and still like to play them. Having them on the computer makes that possible and allot easier than on a braille board. I have never even seen Life, Master Mind or Snakes and Ladders done in a braille version. Of course I lost my sight long before you did and thus I did not get a chance to play many of the computer games that you have. The games that I played were back in the days of Pole Position, Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, bowling, baseball and football. BFN - Original Message - Hi Ari, The game I was mentioning is Termite Torpedo and is available through American Printing House for the Blind. The reason I don't favor the game is it is very simplistic. More what I would consider a childrens game than a game for adults or serious hard core gamers. However, I have always had high standards for games, and am hard to please. The kinds of games that I get really interested in is games with some complexity in them like Sound RTS where you have to manage everything from paying your army, aquiring enough food to support that army, and pay for upgrades and new buildings to better equip and support that army. Galaxy Civilization is another game I really really dig for the same reason. If I am not playing the entire civilization theme games I go for FPS games like Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, etc that has puzzle solving balanced with intense action and drama to keep you going until the credits scroll. That to me is a good game. So you can see where I am coming from when I am disappointed by seeing sighted game developers writing a game like Termite Torpedo. The game is ok, but nothing for me to write home about. I just felt, maybe just me only, that the game was targeting someone of low inteligence or was designed to target blind children rather than blind adults with commercial quality game taistes. Whichever it was I felt that the game wasn't designed to be played by a blind gamer who wants more out of accessible game developers than word puzzles, card games, and so on. In fact, the lack of my kind of games was why I got into writing games in the first place. When I was losing my sight I realised commercial game developers were not going to make their games accessible. When I discovered the accessible games market via the Audyssey magazine around 98 or 99 I was disappointed that our comunity wasn't actively trying to make 3D FPS games and other games I was use to playing for the PC. Those old Audyssey mags I was reading were talking about text adventures etc and I was so turned off with accessible gaming until GMA released Lonewolf and Shades of Doom which all comes back to the original issue that accessible games are not equal to sighted games. That brings us right back to the original issue of this thread that it is hard for blind gamers, using accessible games, to attract a sighted player to play with them. The lack of graphics is certainly a factor, but for me it was the lack of features, lack of familiarity, and lack of meeting commercial
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
ah, almost forgot, Jim, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that you code Risk. smile As some often suggest of developers, in an off- hand way. lol!... smile I just reread my note and it didn't quite come out the way I wanted!... lol! Anyway, thanks again and catch ya on the flip... Smiles, CQ :) On Jan 20, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Cara Quinn wrote: Hi Jim, agreed, yours were actually the first audio games I'd ever seen for the computer!... Personally, the card / board games I like are BlackJack (which I love) woohoo! and Monopoly! I think you've done an amazing job with your versions and I'd love to see one on the Mac, so I don't have to do Windows anymore! lol!... One game I'd love to see, which I haven't seen anyone go for yet, is Risk. I don't like the 'war' games per se, but what I like about that game in particular is that you have the entire earth to play on and strategize over, and when I'd played it, it was with a bunch of friends, so one might find themselves dealing with allies rather than single opponents... We just had fun with it... :) anyway, I think a game like that could really work well over the web, and certainly wouldn't be all that difficult to create, with the stats / AI for computer play, probably being the most difficult part. Anyway, I'm straying a bit, so I'll just close by thanking you for your work which made some great games realities for the VI community on the computer!... Have an awesome day!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 20, 2008, at 1:38 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Thomas, You know that before I wrote my dos card games such as black jack and draw poker we had no such games. That is why I wrote them. I like many other enjoy a game of black jack or draw poker and as I said we did not have those games before I wrote them. The same goes for many of my other dos games. I think that there is room for all types of games and I know that different people have different likes and dislikes for games. I for one do not care for the first person shooter games. And I know many others that have told me the same. I am not into violent games at all. I do like card and board games. I played them allot when I was young and still like to play them. Having them on the computer makes that possible and allot easier than on a braille board. I have never even seen Life, Master Mind or Snakes and Ladders done in a braille version. Of course I lost my sight long before you did and thus I did not get a chance to play many of the computer games that you have. The games that I played were back in the days of Pole Position, Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, bowling, baseball and football. BFN - Original Message - Hi Ari, The game I was mentioning is Termite Torpedo and is available through American Printing House for the Blind. The reason I don't favor the game is it is very simplistic. More what I would consider a childrens game than a game for adults or serious hard core gamers. However, I have always had high standards for games, and am hard to please. The kinds of games that I get really interested in is games with some complexity in them like Sound RTS where you have to manage everything from paying your army, aquiring enough food to support that army, and pay for upgrades and new buildings to better equip and support that army. Galaxy Civilization is another game I really really dig for the same reason. If I am not playing the entire civilization theme games I go for FPS games like Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, etc that has puzzle solving balanced with intense action and drama to keep you going until the credits scroll. That to me is a good game. So you can see where I am coming from when I am disappointed by seeing sighted game developers writing a game like Termite Torpedo. The game is ok, but nothing for me to write home about. I just felt, maybe just me only, that the game was targeting someone of low inteligence or was designed to target blind children rather than blind adults with commercial quality game taistes. Whichever it was I felt that the game wasn't designed to be played by a blind gamer who wants more out of accessible game developers than word puzzles, card games, and so on. In fact, the lack of my kind of games was why I got into writing games in the first place. When I was losing my sight I realised commercial game developers were not going to make their games accessible. When I discovered the accessible games market via the Audyssey magazine around 98 or 99 I was disappointed that our comunity wasn't actively trying to make 3D FPS games and other games I was use to playing for the PC. Those old Audyssey mags I was reading were talking about text adventures etc and I was so turned off with accessible gaming until GMA released Lonewolf and Shades of Doom which all comes back to the original issue that accessible games are not equal
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi, I guess the best answer I can supply is practice and experience. Plus being educated at a university helped allot in understanding the fundemental design and methodology behind programming software for a living. You see, once you understand the fundimentals behind how a program operates, and the coding conventions on how to build applications you can really program in any language once you get up to speed with its syntactical structure. There are just basic building blocks like variables, objects, classes, if statements, etc that are common to every single programming language. They just might look a little different, but once you understand them programming apps in other languages isn't so mysterious. For example, look at the two variables below. // C/C++/Java style variable. int x = 1; ' VB style variable. x As Integer = 1 Both variables are identical in function, purpose, and even name. The only difference is how the variable is created. in java/C/C++ the int data tuype is specified to declare the variable. In Visual basic the As Integer datatype is used to declare the same variable. Once you know what an integer variable is and how it works it doesn't matter if the language declares it int x or x As Integer as long as you know how to use it in the programming language you are using. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, Thomas, you go! c++? I can barely manage basic (i mean the crap with the line numbers and such). How do ya do it! Lol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Agreed thomas, switching languages is easy, for myself though, the thing that I'm getting used to at the moment is interfacing two or more languages in the same project... However, I'm sure this is now getting into the realm of the *huge fanfare* other list!!! lol! so I'll stop... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 19, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, I guess the best answer I can supply is practice and experience. Plus being educated at a university helped allot in understanding the fundemental design and methodology behind programming software for a living. You see, once you understand the fundimentals behind how a program operates, and the coding conventions on how to build applications you can really program in any language once you get up to speed with its syntactical structure. There are just basic building blocks like variables, objects, classes, if statements, etc that are common to every single programming language. They just might look a little different, but once you understand them programming apps in other languages isn't so mysterious. For example, look at the two variables below. // C/C++/Java style variable. int x = 1; ' VB style variable. x As Integer = 1 Both variables are identical in function, purpose, and even name. The only difference is how the variable is created. in java/C/C++ the int data tuype is specified to declare the variable. In Visual basic the As Integer datatype is used to declare the same variable. Once you know what an integer variable is and how it works it doesn't matter if the language declares it int x or x As Integer as long as you know how to use it in the programming language you are using. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, Thomas, you go! c++? I can barely manage basic (i mean the crap with the line numbers and such). How do ya do it! Lol --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
thomas, I absolutely agree with you, but to take a bit of a different tach on this situation; could the termite game be more of a takeoff on certain simple but highly addictive games that sighted players often play while doing something else?... I.E. I can't think of the name right now, but there is a game which is incredibly simple but crazy addicting where all sorts of faces come down the screen and you need to shoot at them and I believe, get three of a similar type to line up as they fall... -and that's it! The game goes faster, but that's about all there is to it. smile It's an incredible time waster! lol!... anyway, not having played Termite torpedoes, I can't really comment further on that, but am just wondering... Have an awesome day!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 19, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Ari, The game I was mentioning is Termite Torpedo and is available through American Printing House for the Blind. The reason I don't favor the game is it is very simplistic. More what I would consider a childrens game than a game for adults or serious hard core gamers. However, I have always had high standards for games, and am hard to please. The kinds of games that I get really interested in is games with some complexity in them like Sound RTS where you have to manage everything from paying your army, aquiring enough food to support that army, and pay for upgrades and new buildings to better equip and support that army. Galaxy Civilization is another game I really really dig for the same reason. If I am not playing the entire civilization theme games I go for FPS games like Tomb Raider, Jedi Knight, etc that has puzzle solving balanced with intense action and drama to keep you going until the credits scroll. That to me is a good game. So you can see where I am coming from when I am disappointed by seeing sighted game developers writing a game like Termite Torpedo. The game is ok, but nothing for me to write home about. I just felt, maybe just me only, that the game was targeting someone of low inteligence or was designed to target blind children rather than blind adults with commercial quality game taistes. Whichever it was I felt that the game wasn't designed to be played by a blind gamer who wants more out of accessible game developers than word puzzles, card games, and so on. In fact, the lack of my kind of games was why I got into writing games in the first place. When I was losing my sight I realised commercial game developers were not going to make their games accessible. When I discovered the accessible games market via the Audyssey magazine around 98 or 99 I was disappointed that our comunity wasn't actively trying to make 3D FPS games and other games I was use to playing for the PC. Those old Audyssey mags I was reading were talking about text adventures etc and I was so turned off with accessible gaming until GMA released Lonewolf and Shades of Doom which all comes back to the original issue that accessible games are not equal to sighted games. That brings us right back to the original issue of this thread that it is hard for blind gamers, using accessible games, to attract a sighted player to play with them. The lack of graphics is certainly a factor, but for me it was the lack of features, lack of familiarity, and lack of meeting commercial standards I was expecting to find. For example, the Jedi Knight games had full featured cut scenes, and they were in true 3D worlds. You would have to jump or use an elevator to get to another floor with in the game level. You could cross bridges or jump off of them to get back down to the main floor etc. Then, after playing all that to find out that the blind games didn't have anything like that is quite a disappointment from someone formally sighted turned blind. ari wrote: Hi Thomas, What game is this that you're talking about where you thought it wasn't developed properly and why? I've never heard of this torpedo game? Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi, Yeah, multilanguage applications is something better for the Game Developers or blind programming list. Cara Quinn wrote: Agreed thomas, switching languages is easy, for myself though, the thing that I'm getting used to at the moment is interfacing two or more languages in the same project... However, I'm sure this is now getting into the realm of the *huge fanfare* other list!!! lol! so I'll stop... Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
As reguards showing audio games to sited people, well a couple of people I've shown audio games too didn't get it at all, however a couple of my friends were most impressed, one who's a doom fan (and was most intreagued by shades of doom), and one who's generally just forward thinking. As reguards playing games together though, that is another story, I've played a fair few of Jim's games against friends (also because it saves the need for a braille board and cards etc). also, one friend of mine is a huge fan of fighting fantasy, text adventures and suce. On several occasion he's read me some of the old ff novels, and in return on others I've operated the Pc and Hal for him while playing text adventures, online gamebooks, Sryth, or even the last crusade (my friend not being the most computer literate, or even coordinated person, I ended up doing the typing etc), he's actually quite a fan of the synth voice reading the text. While I agree about audio games being just a random novelty (or completely ununderstandable!)to a lot of people, I have run into some fairly open minded people as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Well, while i've certainly encountered the business you mention very often in real life, I've never come across it when dealing with game developers because (as I said), small devs of freeware and shareware games do tend on average to be quite a nice bunch. this is however where (just as in real life), a Vi person has to develope incredibly good communication and diplomacy skills, if they want to get anywhere something I fail at on multiple occasions. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: ari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Another issue I'm throwing out, and, please, I don't want to start a debate on the blind philosophy thing, but you know those types of sighted persons who someone, even if you've got a Masters degree and can do things for yourself, but you know when you need a bit of help or if you just accidentally meet a sighted person and they somehow think that because you're blind there's something wrong with you mentally, what effect does that have on the whole games thing? OK, to break it down, let's say you're walking with a pal at Uni and you know the type of person, coming along and asking your pal how is he? Starting with assumptions, believing you incapable of answering yourself. Now, some normal game developers might sort of have this same perception when it comes to games. If someone sighted decides to do a good deed and makes a game for blind people, how much could it creep into his mind that somehow blind people might have difficulties understanding the game, so he makes it very simplistic, because he somehow thinks that blind persons may also have mental difficulties based on his assumptions? I know I'm not putting my point very clearly here, but I do think you guys sort of understand, it's about the whole thing with sighted persons attitudes to blind persons, and unfortunately some blind persons attitude to blindness as well. We're not just blind people, we also have our different attitudes to stuff, and if you have a blind person with a negative attitude trying to show an audio game to a sighted person, this is a problem. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 17/01/2008 16:59 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hello all, I lost my sight aa little over five years ago. Ever since then whenever I go to a store or anywhere people stare at me as if I was an alien. I hate it when I am standing right there and people will ask questions pertaining to me or my son to anyone but me. I also have people who cant get it right for some reason they cant remember if I am blind or deaf even when I am using my cane. It gets really annoying sometimes. Greg - Original Message - From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Oh I know exactly what you mean. A good example that occurs often is you walk into a classroom, and you can just feel everyone holding their breath or something, and the noise level drops dramatically. Also they won't talk to you unless you speak first. perhaps those that used to have sight could explain this? Did you all of a sudden turn into a dangerous animal when you lost your sight? gees! lol. I also had the experience with sighted people asking others do I want this or that. I even had some people yell as loudly as possible because for some inexplicable reason, they don't know the difference between deaf and blind. - Original Message - From: Dark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Well, while i've certainly encountered the business you mention very often in real life, I've never come across it when dealing with game developers because (as I said), small devs of freeware and shareware games do tend on average to be quite a nice bunch. this is however where (just as in real life), a Vi person has to develope incredibly good communication and diplomacy skills, if they want to get anywhere something I fail at on multiple occasions. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: ari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Another issue I'm throwing out, and, please, I don't want to start a debate on the blind philosophy thing, but you know those types of sighted persons who someone, even if you've got a Masters degree and can do things for yourself, but you know when you need a bit of help or if you just accidentally meet a sighted person and they somehow think that because you're blind there's something wrong with you mentally, what effect does that have on the whole games thing? OK, to break it down, let's say you're walking with a pal at Uni and you know the type of person, coming along and asking your pal how is he? Starting with assumptions, believing you incapable of answering yourself. Now, some normal game developers might sort of have this same perception when it comes to games. If someone sighted decides to do a good deed and makes a game for blind people, how much could it creep into his mind that somehow blind people might have difficulties understanding the game, so he makes it very simplistic, because he somehow thinks that blind persons may also have mental difficulties based on his assumptions? I know I'm not putting my point very clearly here, but I do think you guys sort of understand, it's about the whole thing with sighted persons attitudes to blind persons, and unfortunately some blind persons attitude to blindness as well. We're not just blind people, we also have our different attitudes to stuff, and if you have a blind person with a negative attitude trying to show an audio game to a sighted person, this is a problem. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 17/01/2008 16:59 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Oh I know exactly what you mean. A good example that occurs often is you walk into a classroom, and you can just feel everyone holding their breath or something, and the noise level drops dramatically. Also they won't talk to you unless you speak first. perhaps those that used to have sight could explain this? Did you all of a sudden turn into a dangerous animal when you lost your sight? gees! lol. I also had the experience with sighted people asking others do I want this or that. I even had some people yell as loudly as possible because for some inexplicable reason, they don't know the difference between deaf and blind. - Original Message - From: Dark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Well, while i've certainly encountered the business you mention very often in real life, I've never come across it when dealing with game developers because (as I said), small devs of freeware and shareware games do tend on average to be quite a nice bunch. this is however where (just as in real life), a Vi person has to develope incredibly good communication and diplomacy skills, if they want to get anywhere something I fail at on multiple occasions. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: ari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Another issue I'm throwing out, and, please, I don't want to start a debate on the blind philosophy thing, but you know those types of sighted persons who someone, even if you've got a Masters degree and can do things for yourself, but you know when you need a bit of help or if you just accidentally meet a sighted person and they somehow think that because you're blind there's something wrong with you mentally, what effect does that have on the whole games thing? OK, to break it down, let's say you're walking with a pal at Uni and you know the type of person, coming along and asking your pal how is he? Starting with assumptions, believing you incapable of answering yourself. Now, some normal game developers might sort of have this same perception when it comes to games. If someone sighted decides to do a good deed and makes a game for blind people, how much could it creep into his mind that somehow blind people might have difficulties understanding the game, so he makes it very simplistic, because he somehow thinks that blind persons may also have mental difficulties based on his assumptions? I know I'm not putting my point very clearly here, but I do think you guys sort of understand, it's about the whole thing with sighted persons attitudes to blind persons, and unfortunately some blind persons attitude to blindness as well. We're not just blind people, we also have our different attitudes to stuff, and if you have a blind person with a negative attitude trying to show an audio game to a sighted person, this is a problem. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 17/01/2008 16:59 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Yohandy, Speaking from experience both as someone who has had sight and someone who went blind later in life I think allot of it boils down to misunderstanding and confusion on what both parties expect. For example, when I first started losing my vision and I went to a blind school allot of the other students who were blind from birth wouldn't look at my face, into my eyes, etc when I was speaking and that drove me nuts. Sighted people like to have good eye contact when speaking, and when a blind person fails to look directly at a sighted person when they are speaking they think the blind person isn't paying attention or can't hear them. As a result the sighted person raises his/her voice or something to attempt to get the blind person's attention not thinking or understanding the blind person was never taught to try and look at the face of the person speaking. As for the blind person's point of view I haven't had this problem myself since I try and face the person talking to me, but allot of blind persons fail to do this. In my experience allot of them look off in another direction, don't look directly at a person, etc and they think so what. I have a cane, I have my guide dog here, and the other person can see I am blind. They were never told or asked to look into the other persons face as that is important to most sighted people. Some blind people never experienced sight and don't understand the suddle cues body language and eye contact express to a sighted person, and it makes a sighted person react differently when they precieve a lack of attention. As far as sighted people talking right next to you, about you, and treating you as though you are deaf or something I think two words can explain this one, Myricle Worker. I can not tell you how many times my family has been approached by someone holy ignorant about blind people, and they will say something they had watched the movie the Myricle Worker and it is terrible to have a child who is deaf and blind. Never mind I was not deaf and I would or my parents would inform the person I wasn't deaf just blind. However, movies like the Miricle Worker, based on one persons life, sets an example, an icon, for what blind people are like and sighted people base totally eronious assumptions on what they have seen and heard on tv or through chit chat. Hey, my own in-laws had a really warped idea about blind people when I started dating my wife. They were worried I'd start taking food off of peoples plates like Hellen Keller did in the Miricle Worker, and I had to explain to them the obvious. At the time that happened Hellen was 7 years old, had never been taught anything by anyone, and if the even paid attention to the movie once Anne showed up she set to the task of teaching Hellen things like table manners etc right quick. Hellen would have never done any of those things in her adult life. As it was I went blind later on so I still have the habits of a sighted person, but am now blind. Yohandy wrote: Oh I know exactly what you mean. A good example that occurs often is you walk into a classroom, and you can just feel everyone holding their breath or something, and the noise level drops dramatically. Also they won't talk to you unless you speak first. perhaps those that used to have sight could explain this? Did you all of a sudden turn into a dangerous animal when you lost your sight? gees! lol. I also had the experience with sighted people asking others do I want this or that. I even had some people yell as loudly as possible because for some inexplicable reason, they don't know the difference between deaf and blind. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi, Quote I do think that it's also not just graphics, but sighted gamers would never play blind games even if they had good graphics because we really have no idea about how much more sophisticated sighted games are compared to blind games. End quote That is another big drawback to blind games for sure. On one hand sighted gamers are enjoying games like Gear Wars, Galaxy Civilization, Halo, etc which is light years better than any blind game ever produced. The graphics is great, the AI is amazing, and the combat features in those games can get pretty in depth. When you put the fact that many sighted games now have network game play with millions of other subscribers our little accessible games doesn't have much to offer a sighted gamer. I can remember playing a game with a friend of mine who had a battleship type game. We basically could command an entire fleet of ships, online, in real time, and it was really something giving orders to specific ships to attack this enemy ship, order air strikes against the enemy aircraft carrier, awesome sound effects, real human sounding officers, etc. I remember thinking, Lonewolf is a piece of crap compared to this game! I might add i truly love playing Lonewolf 3.5, but compared to what is out there for sighted gamers I would trash it in a hurry if I found something compared to the submarine and online networked fully navy command and concore type games that was accessible. No two ways about it Lonewolf, Tank Commander, etc are great games to us but to sighted gamers our games are laughable. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Ari, I know exactly what you mean about sighted developers with his or her heart in the right place but stereotypes tending to over simplify something thinking that a blind computer player doesn't have the mental ability to play something really good. I don't know how much this influenced the development of games like Termite Torpedoes, but I really felt as though the game was dumbed down for someone who was clueless, and wondered if the reason the game was so lame was because the developers were drawing upon some stereotype that blind people can't play more complicated game genres. That is one reason why I tend to spend more time and energy on one single game. I don't want to see another Space Ijnvaders or Packman clone. I want to see some of the side-scrollers of my youth as well as some third-person and first person action games I played later on become a reality for us gamers. It is time we start owning the kinds of games our sighted gamers play or played 10 years ago at least. ari wrote: Another issue I'm throwing out, and, please, I don't want to start a debate on the blind philosophy thing, but you know those types of sighted persons who someone, even if you've got a Masters degree and can do things for yourself, but you know when you need a bit of help or if you just accidentally meet a sighted person and they somehow think that because you're blind there's something wrong with you mentally, what effect does that have on the whole games thing? OK, to break it down, let's say you're walking with a pal at Uni and you know the type of person, coming along and asking your pal how is he? Starting with assumptions, believing you incapable of answering yourself. Now, some normal game developers might sort of have this same perception when it comes to games. If someone sighted decides to do a good deed and makes a game for blind people, how much could it creep into his mind that somehow blind people might have difficulties understanding the game, so he makes it very simplistic, because he somehow thinks that blind persons may also have mental difficulties based on his assumptions? I know I'm not putting my point very clearly here, but I do think you guys sort of understand, it's about the whole thing with sighted persons attitudes to blind persons, and unfortunately some blind persons attitude to blindness as well. We're not just blind people, we also have our different attitudes to stuff, and if you have a blind person with a negative attitude trying to show an audio game to a sighted person, this is a problem. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Wow, Thomas, you go! c++? I can barely manage basic (i mean the crap with the line numbers and such). How do ya do it! Lol On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:03:36 -0500, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Ari, Quote It would also be great to hear thoughts particularly of people like Thomas on this subject, because he was of course sighted but went to college as a blind person, Thomas, did you play games for the blind with sighted students at college? End quote At the time I was attending college I wasn't aware of any games specifically for the blind. I was currently going for my BS in Computer Science at the time so I generally spent free time creating simple Dos text games in C++ to play on my own. While sighted gamers didn't care too much for my games other blind students on campis liked copies of my games because I could put them on a floppy for them, and they could play them anywhere on campis where Jaws was installed. When I was with sighted gamers they were always interested in playing Quake, Mech Warrior, Jedi Knight, etc. All games that were hugely popular at that time, and my simple text games just didn't compare with those commercial games. So I usually sat in when they were playing or get to fire off a few shots here and there, but they mainly played and I listened. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
I believe that's true to an extent, particularly when it comes to facing whoever is speaking. but I do remember when I discussed this with a friend of mine, him saying that because I did not seak for eye contact specifically, he (and others), would not seak it from me, and so long as Ifaced them and made my voice expressive and engaging enough, my body language would follow and I could interact with people reasonably. The evidence I've found for this is that all of the above mentioned things, talking to someone else (not usually possible sinse I'm on my own), thinking I am deaf etc, only happen before I have a chance to speak to and engage with the person, and therefore are probably more due to random assumptions than anything else. The one that always makes me laugh is I don't want to offend you but usually followed by Howmuch can I see or have i always been blind if I found such questions offensive I'd be offended a lot of the time ;d. As far as this goes for games, at the point when I'm discussing (or demonstrating), audiogames to someone else, I know them well enough to be beyond the usual stupidity, and can thus expect a reasonable reaction from them. Because of this social stuff though, I would never try to show off audiogames to someone I didn't know vaguely well first so that they can judge and get the best impression of things. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Yeah, at the uni where I was previously, unfortunately because of a shortage of mobility instructors I couldn't get mobility, had unfortunately to rely on people helping, and you'd get other students stopping you and asking my sighted companion so how is he today? It's just the weirdest things that people expect or don't expect from blind people. On the subject of games being simplistic for blind people, I never played it so I can't comment on this, but Grizzly was the first audio game out, and some blind people apparrently used to write to Bavisoft claiming that it was over-simplistic, it insulted their intelligence and that it was not challenging enough, so they were basically saying that Bavisoft's had not made their game mentally challenging enough, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but is Bavisoft a sighted company, were those blind people thinking they were being patronised by sighted guys wanting to make money, not sure what they thought. It would also be great to hear thoughts particularly of people like Thomas on this subject, because he was of course sighted but went to college as a blind person, Thomas, did you play games for the blind with sighted students at college? Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
I agree Thomas, I was taught, and I have been blind from birth that you turn your face to the person speaking. Some blind people turn an ear towards them and that looks downright weird. Lisa Hayes skype name, lisa12257 join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Hi Cara, Exactly. I think some blind people don't realise how important facial and eye contact is with the sighted speaker and are confused when the sighted person starts reacting strangely like raising there voice etc. I doubt the sighted person speaking is even aware of their own reactions. If they are speaking to someone sighted, and the person they are talking to isn't paying attention, just by raising there voice the sighted person will turn their face to look right at them. When a blind person doesn't know what to do the sighted person gets louder or assumes the blind person is deaf because he/she isn't paying attention, or at least appears to them not to be paying attention. As a result both people walk away from the encounter confused. As I mentioned in my previous post when I was beginning to lose my sight and was enrolled in the local blind school I would get really agitated at the other blind students when they didn't look at me. It has taken me years to understand why I got so agitated, and the reason is pretty simple. From the moment a sighted person begins to comunicate they automatically want to look for non-virble comunication like body language, facial expressions, and eye contact. When that is removed it's like having part of your comunication network go on vacation, and it is usually a sign someone is not paying attention to you. It's kind of like the unwritten law of sighted comunication that facial expressions and eye contact should be maintained at all times. Cara Quinn wrote: It's not inexplicable, but way off topic. lol! If you're sighted, and someone doesn't acknowledge you by looking at you, then it looks as if they aren't aware that you're there... Thus a sighted person may speak loudly to a blind person, as if to get their attention or make them aware so to speak... If a blind person 'looks' in the direction of a sighted person, then you might notice more of a recognition / awareness on the part of the sighted person, that the blind person is also aware of them, and the sighted person may not do the whole yelling / raising the voice thing... HTH Smiles, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 18/01/2008 7:32 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi, I think we have all experienced that kind of sighted person stupidity one time or another. I can remember trying to get to class, the bell rings, I am trying to avoid students as they pore like water out of the class rooms, and half a dozen students would say to me watch out,watch where you are going, etc and they ignored the obvious I can't see them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. It's just really annoying because whenever I walk around my school and get close to a person and try to walk around them instead of wacking into them they're like, Watch out! And I'm like, I'm not a monster, what'd you think I was going to whack you with the kane or something! And yeah I was blind from birth and try to look (or at least face) the person who is talking. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Well I hit someone by mistake with the cane once and their reaction was watch out man! you blind or something? My reply was as a matter of fact, I am. lol. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Hi, I think we have all experienced that kind of sighted person stupidity one time or another. I can remember trying to get to class, the bell rings, I am trying to avoid students as they pore like water out of the class rooms, and half a dozen students would say to me watch out,watch where you are going, etc and they ignored the obvious I can't see them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. It's just really annoying because whenever I walk around my school and get close to a person and try to walk around them instead of wacking into them they're like, Watch out! And I'm like, I'm not a monster, what'd you think I was going to whack you with the kane or something! And yeah I was blind from birth and try to look (or at least face) the person who is talking. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Problem as I see it is this: There are blind individuals interested in gaming. I don't know how many people are subscribed and actually participate in this list, but I know that not all blind gamers are on this list. The point is, we actually do have a market, it's just small. Also, because of the sighted world's insatiable quest for bigger, better, and flashier graphics, we're kinda boring. Seriously, I've encountered people playing games that are just as repetitive as Pong...no offense to the classic, but seriously. The reason they played it was because it had superb graphics. We have to compete with that? As I've said before, I've had several sighted friends interested in at least a couple of Audio games. Also, through sighted assistance, I've played mainstream games. It's just that nobody's gonna want to do the inverse, get blind assistance to learn to play audio games. The problem is that sighted people are so used to the mouse that remembering keyboard commands, even one-letter commands, is too much of a hassle, and mouse support for us is not good enough to be equal to that for sighted people...not by a long shot. Signed: Dakotah Rickard -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dark Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 07:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Indeed, there is more of it now, particularly around games like world of warcraft, - though interestingly enough if was the atari 2600 game berzerk in 1985 that caused the first gaming related fatality, after someone had a hart attack from playing the game without food or sleep for about 40 solid hours. I don't think it needs to be said again that audio games are several miles behind mainstream, but never catch up? that I'm not sure about. firstly, independent gaming is becoming a lot more common, and while small devs don't have the cash, in my experience they do on average tend to be much nicer than the large companies when it comes to accessibility, John and 7-128 games, and Niels Bauer with the smugglers games, not to mention Matthew yarrows and Sryth are all good examples. I think there's going to be more of this in the future. Then, there's the age question. Most blind people are over the age of 60, where as most gamers are at the oldest about 40. Of course in both cases there are exceptions, but this is the rule. But when the generation who grew up in the 1970's start losing their site, they're going to want games to play, thus there will be more people interested in accessible games. i've made similar arguements to various book producers in the Uk about accessibility in Sf or fantasy titles, - though the Sf generation are those who grew up in the 60's with original Trek and Doctor who, but I think it equally applies to gaming. I had a conversation a while ago with some people from the society for the blind in Newzeeland, and brought up the subject of accessible computer games, but they weren't willing to go along with the idea sinse they thought of the blind people they were concerned with were fairly eldily and not likely to be interested in computers or computer games. this is imho one reason why there are more (though in comparison to mainstream games stil not many), games produced for people with motor impairments than visual ones, sinse there are plenty of people of the appropriate age to provide an audience for them. beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Another issue I'm throwing out, and, please, I don't want to start a debate on the blind philosophy thing, but you know those types of sighted persons who someone, even if you've got a Masters degree and can do things for yourself, but you know when you need a bit of help or if you just accidentally meet a sighted person and they somehow think that because you're blind there's something wrong with you mentally, what effect does that have on the whole games thing? OK, to break it down, let's say you're walking with a pal at Uni and you know the type of person, coming along and asking your pal how is he? Starting with assumptions, believing you incapable of answering yourself. Now, some normal game developers might sort of have this same perception when it comes to games. If someone sighted decides to do a good deed and makes a game for blind people, how much could it creep into his mind that somehow blind people might have difficulties understanding the game, so he makes it very simplistic, because he somehow thinks that blind persons may also have mental difficulties based on his assumptions? I know I'm not putting my point very clearly here, but I do think you guys sort of understand, it's about the whole thing with sighted persons attitudes to blind persons, and unfortunately some blind persons attitude to blindness as well. We're not just blind people, we also have our different attitudes to stuff, and if you have a blind person with a negative attitude trying to show an audio game to a sighted person, this is a problem. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Interesting, though hardly news to me, ever sinse I started watching Games master back in the 90's. Ever sinse I first found out about them in the year 2000 or so, I've been a fairly extensive faq user, and of course games like Logd, and KoL have huge outside game experiences, - and hopefully Sryth could get going as well. one advantage though of the audio games community, is that because is so small, and because most of the devs make themselves known on this list etc, there's a lot more of that meta gaming easily around, podcasts etc. In fact, even though I've occasionally lirked around forums on sites of particular main stream games I like, --- such as Mega man network and Turrican forever, I'd say I've generally done more discussion of audio games. And the fact that most specific game boards on gamefaqs are fully of idiots, spamming and flaming doesn't help either. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: ari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:42 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Hi all, Below I have selected interesting pieces from an article from PC Plus Magazine from the UK, what do you guys think, has anyone ever listened to these? Out of character Orestis Bastounis explores ways to move gaming out of the game itself When a game achieves any kind of popularity, and involves at least more skill than Pong, there's guaranteed to be a massive amount of user-created material surrounding it. Forums, guides, chat rooms, player gatherings, even radio and TV shows, are all examples of 'metagaming', where players' actions outside the game directly benefit the experience inside the game. Metagaming means the player not only enhances the gaming experience, but also modifies their play style with knowledge only accessible outside the game realm. For example, a player is metagaming if they keep open a detailed map of the best sniping positions in a Counterstrike level, or a diagram of exactly which spots to brake at in a racing title. A complex game mechanic may need explanation, so players rather than developers will put information online about how it works. This could be a website, a Wiki, a set of spreadsheets or an application designed from the ground up. SWGcraft, a huge database of harvestable resource locations for Star Wars Galaxies, relied entirely on content submitted by that game's players and soon achieved legendary status. After time, it was impossible to harvest anything if you didn't use the site. Some players spend considerable amounts of time and money on services to complement a game world. Online radio shows are a good example; the DJ can talk about the game and different play styles and then use this position of power to influence others. They can promote their own organisation, taunt their enemies and gain valuable publicity for their own character. Of course, for a niche feature within a niche audience, listener numbers won't rival Radio One. To get more people tuning in, the station has to be promoted in game, with similar tools to those used by real radio presenters, like competitions and interviews. When it comes to running TV shows about a particular game, it usually falls upon the developers to cough up the cash needed. One of the first, EVETV, ran a PVP tournament where select players and developers were filmed discussing tactics between matches broadcast with live commentary. EA is working on something similar for the Command and Conquer franchise, with the exception that much of the content so far comes via downloadable episodes, rather than broadcast live. There's so much more that can be done with metagaming. Developers of online titles could expand the content beyond 3D worlds, by integrating support for live video and audio streaming into the game. How about a central radio station, run by the developers, with up-to-the-minute news about the game world, accessible within the game, and outside it? Live 'phone-ins' via VOIP are a possibility, engaging the player in a way that hasn't been done before. Actually, one title has been there and done most of it already. Virtual World Radio Network ( www.vwrn. net) is a radio station run by Second Life players. It's comparable to local radio, with similar news, features and discussion, but just focused on the Second Life world. Players can even purchase advertising slots, which are paid for with in-game money, helping the organisers run the station. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Forums are of course old, but it's the idea of in-game radio that gets me. You could have this massive war game with citizens, you broadcast messages to your people, or you could have coverage of sports teams playing against each other, that step for me is a lovely touch and amazing, and the thing about podcasts, with radio you get the live dimension, people can skype you and give their views. Games are seriously becoming more social and interactive, friends meet each other and play together, like you can play Call Of Duty with your friend and make alliances with people all over the world, the possibilities are massive and so bril, but unfortunately we're left way behind in this. As someone else said, we're years behind, and unfortunately don't see us ever catching up, not because I'm pesimistic, but because even amongst ourselves, there are not many blind people interested in games for the blind. We're already small because we're blind, and we're smaller because even most blind people haven't heard of, or don't care about recreational gaming. Some sighted game players are so passionate that there was a story about a guy from China who wore an adult nappy because he didn't even want to be distracted by toilet breaks. I'm not saying we should do that!, what I am saying is that companies who make sighted games know that they'll sell loads, and really we're this absolutely tiny group of people! In the gaming universe, we're of absolute minimal significance. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Indeed, there is more of it now, particularly around games like world of warcraft, - though interestingly enough if was the atari 2600 game berzerk in 1985 that caused the first gaming related fatality, after someone had a hart attack from playing the game without food or sleep for about 40 solid hours. I don't think it needs to be said again that audio games are several miles behind mainstream, but never catch up? that I'm not sure about. firstly, independent gaming is becoming a lot more common, and while small devs don't have the cash, in my experience they do on average tend to be much nicer than the large companies when it comes to accessibility, John and 7-128 games, and Niels Bauer with the smugglers games, not to mention Matthew yarrows and Sryth are all good examples. I think there's going to be more of this in the future. Then, there's the age question. Most blind people are over the age of 60, where as most gamers are at the oldest about 40. Of course in both cases there are exceptions, but this is the rule. But when the generation who grew up in the 1970's start losing their site, they're going to want games to play, thus there will be more people interested in accessible games. i've made similar arguements to various book producers in the Uk about accessibility in Sf or fantasy titles, - though the Sf generation are those who grew up in the 60's with original Trek and Doctor who, but I think it equally applies to gaming. I had a conversation a while ago with some people from the society for the blind in Newzeeland, and brought up the subject of accessible computer games, but they weren't willing to go along with the idea sinse they thought of the blind people they were concerned with were fairly eldily and not likely to be interested in computers or computer games. this is imho one reason why there are more (though in comparison to mainstream games stil not many), games produced for people with motor impairments than visual ones, sinse there are plenty of people of the appropriate age to provide an audience for them. beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi, Quote firstly, independent gaming is becoming a lot more common, and while small devs don't have the cash, in my experience they do on average tend to be much nicer than the large companies when it comes to accessibility... End quote Around a year ago I actually was talking to a Microsoft MVP about this very same subject of large game companies vs small game companies and he said something that is very interesting. Basically what he said was when you see the statistics that the Sony Play Station has more games than XBox or Windows, or Linux gaming platforms what they really mean is games by major recognised companies like MGS, Activision, EA Games, etc. Those statistics seldem if ever take in to account the small one man operations that are producing games for Windows, Mac, and Linux PCs which hasn't distinguished themselves as anything important to be counted in the statistics. Our little accessible game nitch is just such an uncounted and unrecognised market. Anyway, the bottomline is that we really have no idea how many small one/two man operations are out there on the web making games. Independant game companies has been growing along with the web and with the availability of good development kits for gamers such as DirectX, XNA, OpenAL, SDL, etc. Quote Most blind people are over the age of 60, where as most gamers are at the oldest about 40. Of course in both cases there are exceptions, but this is the rule. But when the generation who grew up in the 1970's start losing their site, they're going to want games to play, thus there will be more people interested in accessible games. End quote Well, it really all comes back to the principle of supply and demand as well as good advertising. Right now as you so aptly pointed out the target market for most accessible games is between the ages of 15 and 45. Those on the lower age bracket want games similar to the XBOX and Play Station games they have played or want to play. Those on the older age bracket tend to go for board, card, and other non-triditional games. I recently did a poll on the Mac Visionaries list, and the overwelming requests were for puzzle games, word games, board games, and card games. Games we take for granted on Windows. Anyway, I don't think we are going to see a major improvement in the accessibility of those Play Station and XBox games until the children of the 80's and 90's get older and begin griping that they can't play Halo 2055 on there XBox 20 vidio game system. Oh, I forgot the XBox will of course have been out dated since the mid 2020's. in the year 2055 all gaming consols will be strapped to your wrist and have pop up wide screen displays, killer built in speakers, and can be attached to a docking station with a huge 65 inch wide screen display. Lol! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi Ari, Yeah, there is allot of reasons why accessible gaming will never catch up to mainstream gaming and the major reason is resources and money. Small time operations like GMA, BSC, and USA Games don't have millions to drop into research and development for a game with the kinds of things I have been reading about. Even if we did pay that getting that kind of money returned on a sale would be impossible unless there was a version for sighted gamers. As you so aptly pointed out many blind computer users haven't' heard of accessible games, and there is a group of them that simply do not care. There is allot of sighted computer users that don't play vidio games, but they seam not to stand out because the gaming market is so large. However, in our market they tend to get noticed, because they come off with an opinion that computers are for work not play. I have a friend who is like that. He uses is computer at home for work, and when approached for games he declined stating his computer was going to remain a work computer. I didn't push the issue, but I had the question in mind, why can't the computer be both?? Why did it have to be work only? There are also many non-disability reasons why some blind gamers don't get involved in games. I know some people who wouldn't mind playing Jim's Monopoly or other games, but won't touch SOD, GTC, Troopenum, etc on the grounds they are too violent. That is not an accessibility issue, but a religious or personal view on the nature of the games themselves. So any game created is not going to be necessarily adopted by every blind gamer or potential blind gamer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
wow! that's sweet, how do you know that? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension Hi, Quote firstly, independent gaming is becoming a lot more common, and while small devs don't have the cash, in my experience they do on average tend to be much nicer than the large companies when it comes to accessibility... End quote Around a year ago I actually was talking to a Microsoft MVP about this very same subject of large game companies vs small game companies and he said something that is very interesting. Basically what he said was when you see the statistics that the Sony Play Station has more games than XBox or Windows, or Linux gaming platforms what they really mean is games by major recognised companies like MGS, Activision, EA Games, etc. Those statistics seldem if ever take in to account the small one man operations that are producing games for Windows, Mac, and Linux PCs which hasn't distinguished themselves as anything important to be counted in the statistics. Our little accessible game nitch is just such an uncounted and unrecognised market. Anyway, the bottomline is that we really have no idea how many small one/two man operations are out there on the web making games. Independant game companies has been growing along with the web and with the availability of good development kits for gamers such as DirectX, XNA, OpenAL, SDL, etc. Quote Most blind people are over the age of 60, where as most gamers are at the oldest about 40. Of course in both cases there are exceptions, but this is the rule. But when the generation who grew up in the 1970's start losing their site, they're going to want games to play, thus there will be more people interested in accessible games. End quote Well, it really all comes back to the principle of supply and demand as well as good advertising. Right now as you so aptly pointed out the target market for most accessible games is between the ages of 15 and 45. Those on the lower age bracket want games similar to the XBOX and Play Station games they have played or want to play. Those on the older age bracket tend to go for board, card, and other non-triditional games. I recently did a poll on the Mac Visionaries list, and the overwelming requests were for puzzle games, word games, board games, and card games. Games we take for granted on Windows. Anyway, I don't think we are going to see a major improvement in the accessibility of those Play Station and XBox games until the children of the 80's and 90's get older and begin griping that they can't play Halo 2055 on there XBox 20 vidio game system. Oh, I forgot the XBox will of course have been out dated since the mid 2020's. in the year 2055 all gaming consols will be strapped to your wrist and have pop up wide screen displays, killer built in speakers, and can be attached to a docking station with a huge 65 inch wide screen display. Lol! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
while some people have fairly legitimate reasons for not playing games, others just down right confuse me. One person I know, though she is a big fan of games like Solitaire, and in fact uses Gma solitare, refuses to play any of Jim kitchen's or the spoonbill games because she doesn't like sapi voices (despite owning scansoft daniel), while I certainly agree a human voice would be better, I'd deffinately rather play a game with Sapi than not at all (and I'm stuck with microsoft mike!). one thing I will say for the accessible card etc games is that they have a slightly different function in the Vi community. I pphysically do not have space to store a huge braille monopoly set in my flat, and as for game of life, - I don't think it's ever! been produced in an accessible form. this is also why, within tthe card/puzle genre, I'd deffinately give my vote to producing more board games, - though of course I'd stil go for something like Monti or shades over that first. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
I thought by the year 2055 we'll have developed games which plug directly into the brain, - thus stil being a pest for those of us with a disfunctional visual cortex, ;D. Seriously, while I'd never suggest people like the game accessibility project stop hasseling sony etc, I think more independent games companies are going to be the main future in accessible games. We probably won't get world of warcraft, but we might get some good games anyway. On a more general level this is something I was discussing with people on a work related disability conference I went to last year, the fact that generally because most visually impared people tend to be older, a lot of resources go into developing things for a specific agegroup. to take a symple example, the small talking alarm clock known as the cube clock, very easy to set, with volume control etc. When mine died two years ago iordered a new one. for some utterly bizarre reason the switches to set the alarm, control the volume and turn hourly chime on/off were behind the battery cover. I contacted said company and asked why, to be told that it was to stop older people with less good hand coordination catching the buttons by accident. This is something i've never done myself, nor have my vi family members, and sinse I'm always mucking about with the alarm time volume etc, it was actually a miner pest to me. I have similar arguements when debating issues such as making tabletop rpgs accessible with tactile d 20's (not everyone has a laptop or access to the gma dice program), and accessible versions of the rule book, and I wont' even get into my limited books wrant again. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Audyssey] Out of the games dimension
Hi all, Below I have selected interesting pieces from an article from PC Plus Magazine from the UK, what do you guys think, has anyone ever listened to these? Out of character Orestis Bastounis explores ways to move gaming out of the game itself When a game achieves any kind of popularity, and involves at least more skill than Pong, there's guaranteed to be a massive amount of user-created material surrounding it. Forums, guides, chat rooms, player gatherings, even radio and TV shows, are all examples of 'metagaming', where players' actions outside the game directly benefit the experience inside the game. Metagaming means the player not only enhances the gaming experience, but also modifies their play style with knowledge only accessible outside the game realm. For example, a player is metagaming if they keep open a detailed map of the best sniping positions in a Counterstrike level, or a diagram of exactly which spots to brake at in a racing title. A complex game mechanic may need explanation, so players rather than developers will put information online about how it works. This could be a website, a Wiki, a set of spreadsheets or an application designed from the ground up. SWGcraft, a huge database of harvestable resource locations for Star Wars Galaxies, relied entirely on content submitted by that game's players and soon achieved legendary status. After time, it was impossible to harvest anything if you didn't use the site. Some players spend considerable amounts of time and money on services to complement a game world. Online radio shows are a good example; the DJ can talk about the game and different play styles and then use this position of power to influence others. They can promote their own organisation, taunt their enemies and gain valuable publicity for their own character. Of course, for a niche feature within a niche audience, listener numbers won't rival Radio One. To get more people tuning in, the station has to be promoted in game, with similar tools to those used by real radio presenters, like competitions and interviews. When it comes to running TV shows about a particular game, it usually falls upon the developers to cough up the cash needed. One of the first, EVETV, ran a PVP tournament where select players and developers were filmed discussing tactics between matches broadcast with live commentary. EA is working on something similar for the Command and Conquer franchise, with the exception that much of the content so far comes via downloadable episodes, rather than broadcast live. There's so much more that can be done with metagaming. Developers of online titles could expand the content beyond 3D worlds, by integrating support for live video and audio streaming into the game. How about a central radio station, run by the developers, with up-to-the-minute news about the game world, accessible within the game, and outside it? Live 'phone-ins' via VOIP are a possibility, engaging the player in a way that hasn't been done before. Actually, one title has been there and done most of it already. Virtual World Radio Network ( www.vwrn. net) is a radio station run by Second Life players. It's comparable to local radio, with similar news, features and discussion, but just focused on the Second Life world. Players can even purchase advertising slots, which are paid for with in-game money, helping the organisers run the station. Ari --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
