Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 08:18 +0100, Martin Nordholts wrote: Personally I would be _encouraged_ to further contribute to GIMP if GIMP had someone working full time. I think it depends on the person... On the other hand, I can also imagine incentives in the form of socks :-), or graphics tablets, or colour-managed displays and printers, or whatever. Competitions for who can convert the most plugins to gtkbuilder (half :-) on that one, but only half) or who can write the most useful tutorial for a new feature. The programmers are part of a larger community, and it all needs to be vibrant and active... Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Liam R E Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 08:18 +0100, Martin Nordholts wrote: Personally I would be _encouraged_ to further contribute to GIMP if GIMP had someone working full time. I think it depends on the person... On the other hand, I can also imagine incentives in the form of socks :-), or graphics tablets, or colour-managed displays and printers, or whatever. Competitions for who can convert the most plugins to gtkbuilder (half :-) on that one, but only half) or who can write the most useful tutorial for a new feature. I actually agree with this. Reward does not have to be money, It could just as well be something interesting that you couldn't/wouldn't get otherwise. If Gimp aims to be a professional tool, then support for things like decent graphics tablets and extras needs to be there and for it to be there developers need access to the tools. I'm currently trying to scrounge up enough to get myself an intuos/cintiq (naah, cant afford that ever) with at least one of its wheel reporting extras and its proving quite difficult, because these are pro tools and as such cost a lot of money. And when I get one, and do something, It would be really helpful if someone else in the dev team could actually test this code as well without me actually mailing my device out to them. Another thing that developers should at least try to use is screen calibration hardware and color managed process. I personally have never done this bacause of the cost of owning one of the spider devices. Tablet is something that can motivate anyone slightly artistic to action and wacom makes them in varied sizes and configurations so the size of the task can easily be matched to a suitable tablet for an award. Also, simple things like T-shirts, quality GIMP posters and stickers that are easy to mail and don't cost too much can perhaps perk people up. Appreciation is a strong motivating force. To summarize, to build a pro product developers need access to pro tools and access to pro tools can be a strong motivator for hacking, but even little tokens of appreciation work. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:59:13 +0200 Alexia Death alexiade...@gmail.com wrote: Another thing that developers should at least try to use is screen calibration hardware and color managed process. I personally have never done this bacause of the cost of owning one of the spider devices. I'm not exactly a contributing developer, but I do have access to a Spider and calibrated screens. Are there outstanding issues regarding colour management? I might be able to provide some help here. More significantly it was mentioned elsewhere that the wiki needed managing. What does this entail? Keeping a watchful eye on new entries? Checking spelling? Validating new users? I make good use of gimp and would like to put back in some way, but I'm aware that it's easy for an inexperienced developer to be a burden on the others, rather than helpful. Since I'm unlikely to find the time to develop the C skills needed to usefully contribute code, I'm looking for other ways that I can help. -- Jon Senior j...@restlesslemon.co.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Martin Nordholts wrote: We often point out to people that GIMP is lacking contributors. Maybe the lack of contributors is a side effect of how the project currently is run with regards to money? About three weeks ago someone told me that he wanted to donate some money to Inkscape and it didn't work. As it turned out, our donation system has been broken for years, from the very beginning perhaps. Which means that the only financial support we had all these years is from Google via GsoC. Can you say that Inkscape is not moving fast forward? :) Mind you, it does work for other projects. Ardour's principal developer relies mostly on the money from monthly subscriptions and sK1 team relies mostly on money they get from adverts. But when you say: Personally I would be _encouraged_ to further contribute to GIMP if GIMP had someone working full time. it's vitally important to understand that this person is supposed to have leading position in the project. Otherwise it will end up in clashes. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
Hi, On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 11:59 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: If Gimp aims to be a professional tool, then support for things like decent graphics tablets and extras needs to be there and for it to be there developers need access to the tools. I'm currently trying to scrounge up enough to get myself an intuos/cintiq (naah, cant afford that ever) with at least one of its wheel reporting extras and its proving quite difficult, because these are pro tools and as such cost a lot of money. Why aren't you just asking if you can have this hardware paid from the GIMP account? We are getting several hundred dollars of donations per week and can easily afford buying developers the hardware they need. Sven PS: I am leaving for vacation and won't be back before February. But if you guys decide that Alexia should get a tablet paid, you don't need to wait for me coming back. She has my support. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 11:35 +0100, Jon Senior wrote: I'm not exactly a contributing developer, but I do have access to a Spider and calibrated screens. Are there outstanding issues regarding colour management? I might be able to provide some help here. We most urgently need a developer interested in improving color management. If we have such a developer, we can certainly use such devices. More significantly it was mentioned elsewhere that the wiki needed managing. What does this entail? Keeping a watchful eye on new entries? Checking spelling? Validating new users? That and keeping the Wiki free of Spam. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 08:18 +0100, Martin Nordholts wrote: Personally I would be _encouraged_ to further contribute to GIMP if GIMP had someone working full time. Having someone working full time on GIMP would mean that the development speed of GIMP would significantly increase, and it will be more fun to contribute to a project that is moving fast than it is to contribute to a project moving slowly, like GIMP is. Having someone work on GIMP full-time is something entirely different than paying for features. It has my full support. But I am afraid that it will be extremely difficult to find someone capable and willing to do this job. And it will be extremely difficult to find a company who is willing to hire a developer and to let him/her work on GIMP full time. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: Hi, On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 11:59 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: If Gimp aims to be a professional tool, then support for things like decent graphics tablets and extras needs to be there and for it to be there developers need access to the tools. I'm currently trying to scrounge up enough to get myself an intuos/cintiq (naah, cant afford that ever) with at least one of its wheel reporting extras and its proving quite difficult, because these are pro tools and as such cost a lot of money. Why aren't you just asking if you can have this hardware paid from the GIMP account? We are getting several hundred dollars of donations per week and can easily afford buying developers the hardware they need. Well, I didn't know it was an option, and my interest in such device is not limited to just developing gimp, so I've been plotting to get one on my own... But it would help a lot if me and someone else, like Martin or Mitch had the same set, for testing etc purposes. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
Alexia Death wrote: Why aren't you just asking if you can have this hardware paid from the GIMP account? We are getting several hundred dollars of donations per week and can easily afford buying developers the hardware they need. Well, I didn't know it was an option, and my interest in such device is not limited to just developing gimp, so I've been plotting to get one on my own... But it would help a lot if me and someone else, like Martin or Mitch had the same set, for testing etc purposes. I totally support you getting tablet hardware using GIMP money, it will be money well spent / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Best way to keep up with GIMP from git ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
Martin Nordholts wrote: Well, I didn't know it was an option, and my interest in such device is not limited to just developing gimp, so I've been plotting to get one on my own... But it would help a lot if me and someone else, like Martin or Mitch had the same set, for testing etc purposes. I totally support you getting tablet hardware using GIMP money, it will be money well spent / Martin Oh you also proposed to buy one for me or mitch too so we can debug together etc Well I don't think I'll use it very much, it's better to use that money for something else / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Best way to keep up with GIMP from git ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Martin Nordholts ense...@gmail.com wrote: Oh you also proposed to buy one for me or mitch too so we can debug together etc Well I don't think I'll use it very much, it's better to use that money for something else Well, my goal in that was mostly to save debugging time. The stack for tablets under gimp tends to break quite often and being able to verify if its my system or gimp thats broken is a value. There have been issues everywhere, but mostly they come from GDK, and sometimes X. perhaps in this case mitch is a better candiate because he works on GDK and tablet testing there is needed. I think he has something very old already but it does not provide the full feature set. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On 2010-01-15 18:02, Alexia Death wrote: Well, I didn't know it was an option, and my interest in such device is not limited to just developing gimp, so I've been plotting to get one on my own... But it would help a lot if me and someone else, like Martin or Mitch had the same set, for testing etc purposes. If you want pen rotation for for developing but you also need a tablet for your personal artistic needs, the best choice would be getting a Wacom Intuos4 Medium tablet + Art Pen (undiscounted price: about 370 + 100 euro), although if you're really into drawing and painting then you should get an Intuos4 Large which costs 480 euro (+ 100 euro Art Pen). These are prices from the official Wacom.eu shop; online retails prices are usually about 10% lower. If you're really on a budget (or better, if Gimp funds don't allow for such expenses) then you should get an Intuos4 Small (Wacom price: 225 euro), although I personally don't recommend it for drawing or painting as it's way too small. For testing/developing tablet support on Gimp would be more than enough anyway. -- SHIRAKAWA Akira ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
Sven Neumann wrote: Having someone work on GIMP full-time is something entirely different than paying for features. It has my full support. Ok then it seems like we're on the same page, I am also skeptical about bounties for features, there's just to much potential problems with that. / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Best way to keep up with GIMP from git ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 19:17 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Martin Nordholts ense...@gmail.com wrote: Oh you also proposed to buy one for me or mitch too so we can debug together etc Well I don't think I'll use it very much, it's better to use that money for something else Well, my goal in that was mostly to save debugging time. The stack for tablets under gimp tends to break quite often and being able to verify if its my system or gimp thats broken is a value. There have been issues everywhere, but mostly they come from GDK, and sometimes X. perhaps in this case mitch is a better candiate because he works on GDK and tablet testing there is needed. I think he has something very old already but it does not provide the full feature set. As far as I know the tablet that Mitch owns is a Wacom I (with serial connection). It's the same model that I sent you last year. These tablets were donated by Wacom in 1999 for the first GIMP developer conference. It might make sense to ask Wacom if they can donate some more so that the GIMP developers can work with more recent models. But if they aren't willing to donate hardware, we can just buy one or two tablets from the project money that we have. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
* Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org [01-15-10 13:18]: As far as I know the tablet that Mitch owns is a Wacom I (with serial connection). It's the same model that I sent you last year. These tablets were donated by Wacom in 1999 for the first GIMP developer conference. It might make sense to ask Wacom if they can donate some more so that the GIMP developers can work with more recent models. But if they aren't willing to donate hardware, we can just buy one or two tablets from the project money that we have. If Wacom will not donate, perhaps they would be willing to deeply discount some hardware ??? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: As far as I know the tablet that Mitch owns is a Wacom I (with serial connection). It's the same model that I sent you last year. These tablets were donated by Wacom in 1999 for the first GIMP developer conference. That makes these devices 11 years old and they are amazing. The one you sent me works fine, and with little hackery I even managed to make it hotpluggable using a serial adapter and some custom python to introduce it to my X when it appears. However it does not have the extras available that report wheel component. For that either Intuos 3 or intuos 4 series devices are needed and artpen and/or airbrush extra tool. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Friday 15 January 2010, SHIRAKAWA Akira wrote: On 2010-01-15 18:02, Alexia Death wrote: Well, I didn't know it was an option, and my interest in such device is not limited to just developing gimp, so I've been plotting to get one on my own... But it would help a lot if me and someone else, like Martin or Mitch had the same set, for testing etc purposes. If you want pen rotation for for developing but you also need a tablet for your personal artistic needs, the best choice would be getting a Wacom Intuos4 Medium tablet + Art Pen Adding my two cents -- from the perspective of the Krita maintainer... That's the setup I got for Krita after doing a donation drive for tablets -- I would have liked to have airbrushes to go with them, but our funds didn't stretch as far, and we couldn't get into contact with anyone at Wacom. By the way, I think that Alexia is completely right when suggesting to get two rigs: we did the same for Krita, one for the brush engine developer, one for me (or to send around). That way, bugs can be reproduced reasonably easily, even if the other developer doesn't use it for creating art. (undiscounted price: about 370 + 100 euro), although if you're really into drawing and painting then you should get an Intuos4 Large which costs 480 euro (+ 100 euro Art Pen). These are prices from the official Wacom.eu shop; online retails prices are usually about 10% lower. If you're really on a budget (or better, if Gimp funds don't allow for such expenses) then you should get an Intuos4 Small (Wacom price: 225 euro), although I personally don't recommend it for drawing or painting as it's way too small. For testing/developing tablet support on Gimp would be more than enough anyway. I also thought that getting a small wacom wouldn't be as useful since the feel of those are quite different. -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 20:31 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: That makes these devices 11 years old and they are amazing. The one you sent me works fine, and with little hackery I even managed to make it hotpluggable using a serial adapter and some custom python to introduce it to my X when it appears. However it does not have the extras available that report wheel component. For that either Intuos 3 or intuos 4 series devices are needed and artpen and/or airbrush extra tool. Actually, the tablet came with an airbrush tool that has an extra wheel. Did I forget to send you the airbrush pen? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.8 schedule, donations and krita
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 20:31 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: That makes these devices 11 years old and they are amazing. The one you sent me works fine, and with little hackery I even managed to make it hotpluggable using a serial adapter and some custom python to introduce it to my X when it appears. However it does not have the extras available that report wheel component. For that either Intuos 3 or intuos 4 series devices are needed and artpen and/or airbrush extra tool. Actually, the tablet came with an airbrush tool that has an extra wheel. Did I forget to send you the airbrush pen? I only got the regular one. I googled to see if intuos 1 series even had an airbrush and did not get any links so I assumed it didnt have one... -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP 2.8 schedule
Martin Nordholts wrote: I have made a schedule for GIMP 2.8 with the main purpose of being a tool to help us decide what features to include or exclude. I've commited the schedule now, it can be downloaded from http://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/plain/devel-docs/gimp-schedule.ods?id=038ea9474d9f0fe6877376d1cc3640b1bde8d3b8 I've de-scoped some features but left a few in 2.8 still such as vector layers. We should let a few weeks pass to see how the ETA date moves. If the estimates are right, the ETA in the file will stay the same as time passes and as we update it. We'll need to remove further things on the 2.8 milestone list but that can wait a bit. / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Best way to keep up with GIMP from git ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP 2.7 (git) crashes with Gtk error
On Wednesday 13 January 2010 12:38:37 pm Martin Nordholts wrote: It's ok. What version of GTK+ is this? One reason you get it in 2.7 but not 2.6.8 is that 2.7 uses the GTK+ API in a way that triggers the bug, while 2.6.8 does not. at present i'm using gtk2 ver. 2.19.3-75.1. BUT after incorporating the latest changes from GIMP (git) today, and some updates to gtk libraries from openSUSE repos, GIMP 2.7 does not produce that crash anymore. (i've also compiled it without gnome-keyring, which seems to have produced similar errors with other applications). i'm not sure which of the above changes were responsible, but since i seem to have been the only one experiencing these crashes they're gone now, i just leave it at that... -- phani. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
