[Goanet] clarification - bon appetite: fetal cells

[Fidibus]

hello Goanetters,

to begin with, fidibus cant be a pseudonym as it is not a fictitious 
name used by by my selfto conceal myidentity, it reflects my cultural 
/identity (see www.fidibus.info)./


//Confused about the Pepsi/fetal cell issue? Here are the facts

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/confused-about-the-pepsi-fetal-cell-issue-here-are-the-facts

please JC(?), spend some time to research so not to appear as a troll.

Human Cell Strains in Vaccine Development 



http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development 



--
Rebellion against the norms is Love for the Creation

skype:fidibee

homepage: www.fidibus.info



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Goanet] CLARIFICATION OF ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN MUMBAI MIRROR

[Robin Viegas]

From: bcsabha.kal...@gmail.com
To: 

http://archdioceseofbombay.org/news/diocesan/clarification-article-published-mumbai-mirror

CLARIFICATION OF ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN MUMBAI MIRRORJUNE 25, 2015
An article has appeared in today's Mumbai Mirror (Thursday, June 25, 2015) with 
the following headline 'Right-to die could be an option: Catholic hospitals'. 
Please note that this headline does not reflect the teaching of the Catholic 
Church. Fr. Stephen Fernandes, who has been quoted in the article, has issued a 
clarification of what was actually communicated to the reporter.  His letter is 
reproduced here.  Please share this as widely as possible. Dear Jyoti,
Greetings!!! This is w.r.t. the article today, 25 June on “Right-to-die could 
be an option”. I would like to make certain clarifications with regard to the 
article.  
The title “Right-to-die could be an option” is misleading and is contrary to 
Catholic teaching  which always and rightly insists on choosing life and the 
absolute sacredness and inviolability of human life. There is a right to life 
and to live life fully according to God’s plan. But there is no right to die. 
The Church’s teaching clearly states that “no one can make an attempt on the 
life of an innocent person without opposing God’s love for that person, without 
violating a fundamental right, and therefore without committing a crime of the 
utmost gravity… 
Intentionally causing one’s own death is therefore equally as wrong as murder” 
(Church document on The Declaration of Euthanasia by the Sacred Congregation 
for the Doctrine of the Faith).
Actually, I never spoke about the right to die. These words shake the very 
foundation of Catholic theology and gives a totally wrong and false message to 
the readers. Church teaching insists on the right to protect life from the 
first moment of conception to natural death. The Church clearly teaches that 
the direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being is always gravely 
immoral (St. John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, no. 57). The sanctity of human 
life is one of the most sacred teachings of the Church. Further, the words 
“right to die”  is associated  with the Right to Die societies which propagate 
a culture of death in society, to which the Catholic Church is totally against. 
This culture of death has unfortunately infiltrated into many nursing homes, 
palliative care centres and hospitals.
There is never an option to choose death in Church teaching. There is a big 
difference between choosing death and allowing natural death when all 
appropriate means have been resorted to. It is the mission of the Catholic 
Church to provide care until the natural end of life of a patient. The right to 
die philosophy has harmful effects and implications for the patients, the 
medical profession and the whole of society. The Church’s Encyclical Evangelium 
Vitae vehemently states “The deliberate decision to deprive an innocent human 
being of his life s always morally evil and can never be licit either as an end 
in itself or as a means to a good end… Nothing and no one can in any way permit 
the killing of an innocent human being, whether a fetus or an embryo, an infant 
or an adult, an old person, or one suffering from an incurable disease, or a 
person who is dying. Furthermore, no one is permitted to ask for this act of 
killing, either for himself or herself or for another person entrusted to his 
or her care, nor can he or she consent to it, either explicitly or implicitly. 
Nor can any authority legitimately recommend or permit such an action” 
(Evangelium Vitae, no. 57).
 In short, Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the 
creative action of God' and it remains forever in a special relationship with 
the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its 
beginning until its end: no one can, in any circumstance, claim for himself the 
right to destroy directly an innocent human being (Evangelium Vitae, no. 53).
Further, in the article you wrote about discussions being held on the validity 
of passive euthanasia. The Catholic Church is totally opposed to all forms of 
euthanasia, active as well as passive. In fact in your own article written in 
Mumbai Mirror on 22 October 2014 you rightly quoted the Church saying that 
euthanasia is against the gift of life given by God. Hence, the Church and its 
institutions such as hospitals and care centres will always discuss how to 
safeguard and protect human life at all stages and it will never discuss the 
validity of active or passive euthanasia. The Church’s Declaration on 
Euthanasia (prepared by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) 
totally opposes all forms of euthanasia. Also, in Chapter IV the document notes 
“some people speak of a right to die, which is an expression that does not 
mean the right to procure death either by one's own hand or by means of someone 
else, as one pleases, but rather the right to die peacefully 

[Goanet] Clarification mail from U.D. Kamat, Director for NRI affairs - reg. OCI/PIO

[Camillo Fernandes]

 From: NRI office Goa  To: asjrebello Sent: Thursday, 24 April 2014, 8:12 
Subject: Re: Fw: Subject: Indians overseas upset over government proposal to 
scrap..   Dear Mr.
 Rebello,

Please be informed that there is no proposal before Govt. of India to scrap PIO 
and OCI cards.

For ready reference, I would like to highlight the major differences in the two 
schemes as they stand today :
1) While the PIO Card is valid for 15 years, OCI registration entitles for 
lifelong visa.
2)  While  PIO is granted to foreigner married to Indian citizen or a Person of 
Indian origin, such foreigner is not eligible for OCI registration.
3)  Minors whose parents are Indian citizens or one parent is an Indian citizen 
and the other is not, are not covered under OCI Scheme whereas they are 
eligible 
under PIO Card Scheme.
4)  PIO Card is not allowed to nationals of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, 
Bhutan, Nepal and China, whereas OCI is not allowed to nationals of Bangladesh 
and 
Pakistan only.
5)  While PIO Card is granted to PIOs whose parents / grandparents / great 
grandparents are or had been of Indian origin, OCI registration is granted to 
PIOs 
who were Indian citizens on or after 26th January 1950 or eligible to be Indian 
citizens on 26th January 1950 or to persons belonging to those territories 
which 
became part of India after 15th August 1947 (like Goa)and also to children / 
grand 
children of such persons.  In other words, while under  PIO Card Scheme, PIO 
link 
of the applicant is determined based on the linear relationship of the 
applicant 
upto great grandparents level, under the OCI Scheme, PIO link of the applicant 
is 
determined based on the linear relationship of the applicant upto grandparents 
level.

The merger of PIO Card Scheme with the OCI Card Scheme was conceptualized after 
it 
was brought to the notice of the Govt. of India by some of the foreign 
Governments  
that the nomenclature Overseeas Citizens of India is a misnomer since they 
are 
not citizens of India but actually foreign citizens of Indian origin.

Against this background, the Govt. of India decided to merge the PIO Card 
Scheme 
and the OCI Scheme into a new category called Overseas Indian Cardholder 
(OIC).  
The merger is proposed to be achieved by amendment to the Citizenship Act, 
1955.  
A Bill to amend this Act has been passed in the Upper House i.e. Rajya Sabha 
and 
is awaiting the approval of the Lower House i.e. Lok Sabha.  Obviously, the 
Bill 
will come up for consideration of the Lok Sabha after the new Parliament is 
constituted.

I hope I have made things clear for removing the doubts.

Regards

(U.D. Kamat)
Director for NRI Affairs  

[Goanet] Clarification

[Eugene Correia]

Singer Francis de Tuem has been arrested under section 384 (extortion) and
section 500 (defamation) of the Indian Penal Code. He is alleged to have
defamed Mickky Pacheco
---
I don't think in Canada and some countries the police can arrest on
defamation charges. The defamed person normally moves the court and files
for damages. Lawyers on this forum can clarify if police can arrest on a
complaint. Or, in this singer's case, did the police check the conversation
to lay distortion charge and arrest him?
Do tiatrists have to submit their scripts to police anymore as it was done
in Mumbai years ago?
The newspapers reports have conflicting firgures. In two reports in
Navhind, one says 10 lakhs and other 25 lakhs. Herald says 50 lakhs.

Eugene

Re: [Goanet] CLARIFICATION NEEDED /TRAFFIC IN GOA

[floriano lobo]

Dear Vivek,

Pls do not get upset.
They don't teach 'TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT'  in IIT.

Cheers
floriano
goasuraj


- Original Message - 
From: vivek araujo vivek_araujo2...@yahoo.com

To: goa...@goanet.org
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:02 PM
Subject: [Goanet] CLARIFICATION NEEDED /TRAFFIC IN GOA


Can some sensible person clarify to me the following , when drivers be it in 
the car, scooter, truck, bus etc break rules while driving be it 
overspeeding, reckless driving so forth and so on do we have laws in Goa 
(now i am speaking only from Goan context)to deal with these problems i am 
sure we have , fine/talao etc etc


When the state does not have traffic lights working, no traffic signs like 
overspeeding at 30/40/50/100/200 limit in designated areas or signs to 
discipline riders and drivers that one should not overtake in this area or 
signs of speed brakers to be cautious well in advance , or no road side 
lights are working where if driven recklessly can and will certainly cause 
accidents resulting in the death of a human being and the the examples can 
go on and on countless can one take the state to task ? or we take the 
reckless drivers and riders to task ?


I am continuing my discussion on this topic because the countries that i 
have moved around with a much larger or smaller population throughout the 
world have a very organized and disciplined way of traffic laws and every 
body obeys it , and it's a pride for the citizens of those countries to 
boast about the rule of law the fear of law and the love for law so that 
eventually you grow up as a law abiding citizen and you pass it on to the 
next generation .


But what amazes me why Goa Govt can't take a bold step and clean up the mess 
and have strict traffic laws not for reading purposes only but let it be 
implemented and culprits brought to task.


I will have no hesitation if i meet the Honorable Transport Minister for Goa 
to give him a piece of advice/advise whichever and display a movie on what 
chaotic and disorganized traffic atmosphere and culture can bring out if 
uncontrolled for too long.


Regards

Vivek 

[Goanet] Clarification on post: Shameless Radha and Bharat Bhasha Suraksha Manch

[Nobert Carvalho]

Radha is an Indian name. Anacleto isnt. Can understand the allergies that
develope in the
sub concious mind after getting infected by Congress virus as well as by a
BJP fungi.

First, Cafe Prakash discussions are only meant for relieving headaches after
a failed day.
Second, Do not use them as facts on which thoughts are to be built.
Third, If second mistake is already made, post them b4 mixing them
with Feni!
Cheers!
Norbert

On Sun, 29 May 2011 SOTER
so...@bsnl.inhttp://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=so...@bsnl.in
posted:
Subject: [Goanet] Clarification on post: Shameless Radha and
Bharat Bhasha Suraksha Manch

This is just to clarify that in this earlier post I mixed up the names of
Anacleto with Radharao.
Radharao has been kind enough to draw my attention to this slip and I am
extremely sorry for
the error. Instead of Radha the name should have read Anacleto. Please note
that I stand
corrected. It should read as shameless Anacleto and BBSM. -Soter

[Goanet] Clarification on post: Shameless Radha and Bharat Bhasha Suraksha Manch

[SOTER]

For information of Nobert the mix up was not from any allergy to any name. 
Somehow I always confuse beteen the names of Radharao with Anacleto probably 
because of their as confusing stands. The mix up has a history prior to any 
acquantaince with Cafe Prakash. We do not mix anything in Feni, we mix it with 
curd.

-Soter

[Goanet] Clarification on post: Shameless Radha and Bharat Bhasha Suraksha Manch

[SOTER]

This is just to clarify that in this earlier post I mixed up the names of 
Anacleto with Radharao. Radharao has been kind enough to draw my attention to 
this slip and I am extremely sorry for the error. Instead of Radha the name 
should have read Anacleto. Please note that I stand corrected. It should read 
as shameless Anacleto and BBSM.

-Soter

Re: [Goanet] CLARIFICATION REQUIRED

[Frederick Noronha]

Pls see here:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2011-March/206945.html

Frederick Noronha :: +91-9822122436 :: +91-832-2409490



On 21 March 2011 23:49, prabhu michaelpra...@vsnl.net wrote:

  Dear Frederick,
 I sent a post on the 20th.
 It does not seem to have been posted as of Digest no. 287 which came in a
 short while earlier.
 Have I missed it, or is there something amiss with what I wrote in my
 letter?
 Regards,
 Michael


 *From:* prabhu michaelpra...@vsnl.net *To:* goa...@goanet.org *Cc:*
 fredericknoro...@gmail.com ; gabbydeso...@rediffmail.com ;
 gabrield...@gmail.com ; gabrielj...@gmail.com ; gabrielr...@gmail.com ;
 gabrielr...@gmail.com

 *Sent:* Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:22 PM

 *Subject:* Re: Which Catholic Group is Willing to fight the Church
 Authorities if something is wrong?

 Dear Frederick,

 Thanks for your guidance. This is the message that I wanted to send when I
 first contacted you on the 16th after reading a post by one Gabriel D'Souza
 on http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg74796.html: 
 *Which
 Catholic Group is Willing to fight the Church Authorities if something is
 wrong?*

 **

 I refer to Gabriel D'Souza of Mumbai's post of March 14, 2011: Which
 Catholic Group is Willing to fight the Church Authorities if something is
 wrong?
 *1.* *His point no 6 was Demand from the Bishop that married catholic
 priests should also be allowed to perform masses in churches on freelance
 basis.*

 *-Catholics know that the question of married priests does not even arise
 for discussion.*

 *-One does not fight the Church. We are members of the Body of Christ. A
 member of a body does not fight another member of the same body. *

 *-The Church is NOT a democracy as in political. It is a koinonocracy, a
 COMMUNITY. Things are done differently here.*

 That demand of Gabriel's shows that he either is completely ignorant of
 Church teaching on the matter, or that he is not Catholic, or that he is a
 liberal/dissident Catholic or a combination of them.



 *2.* I also privately received this message from this Gabriel D'Souza.

 Gabriel D'Souza sends numerous meaningless unsolicited mails, something
 that I strongly object to. There is no way to stop him from doing so either.
 He always ignores and sometimes even argues when requested to unsubscribe,
 or he simply changes his name and/or email id and writes again. And again..
 Using the name Gabriel, he has written under several ids -- switching all
 the time -- such as gabbydeso...@rediffmail.com; gabrield...@gmail.com;
 gabrielj...@gmail.com; gabrielr...@gmail.com; gabrielr...@gmail.com; etc.
 He is also almost certainly  the same person who writes as Gabriel
 Fernandes [*gabrielpf...@gmail.com*], Paul D'Souza [*paulg...@gmail.com*],
 Paul Gonsalves [*bombayvo...@gmail.com*] - when he called on the Church to
 implement a two-child policy, again something very un-Catholic, Marcos
 Gonsalves [*marcosg...@gmail.com*], Marcos Fernandes [*
 marcosp...@gmail.com*], Jorge Dias [*jorges...@gmail.com*], Jorge D'Souza
 [*jorgep...@gmail.com*], Jorge Rodrigues [*jorger...@gmail.com*], George
 D'Mello [*george...@gmail.com*], Alfred Fernandes [*alfred...@gmail.com*],
 Andrew Fernandes [*andrewg...@gmail.com*], Brian Fernandes [*
 brianj...@gmail.com*], Daniel Borges [*danielj...@gmail.com*], Daniel
 Gonzalez [*danielgn...@gmail.com*], Daniel Gonsalves [*
 danielg...@gmail.com*; danielg...@gmail.com; danielg...@gmail.com], Dr.
 Alfred D'Souza [*alfred...@gmail.com*], Brian D'Souza [*brian...@gmail.com
 *], Mark D'Souza [*markj...@gmail.com*];

 and I have wondered if he is also Layman Christian [*
 info@laymanchristian.c*om], Christ's People [*christspeo...@gmail.com*].
 A lot of what he writes is rubbish. How does one stop this spam from this
 man of multiple identities?

 One of our list guidelines is False and/or ambiguous email aliases will
 not be tolerated..



 *3.* My message to Greg Pereira, President of AOCC, who responded with a
 comment to Gabriel D'Souza:

 Greg, I believe that AOCC should expand as ASSOCIATION OF CONCERNED
 CATHOLICS and not as ASSOCIATION OF CONCERN CATHOLICS.
 Michael Prabhu, Chennai

[Goanet] CLARIFICATION APOLOGY EXTENDED

[floriano]

Dears,

This has relevance to the Prudent Media's 'ZAGOR' a political debate that 
was hosted by Prudent Media's Sandesh Prabhudesai with guests Vishnu Wagh of 
the Congress, Adv Radharao Gracias of UGDP and Adv. Cleofato Coutinho during 
the last west, the last telecast of which was aired at 10.30 am.m this 
Sunday, 27th. June, 2010.


I was at home and my wife was watching the tube. As soon as she heard Goa 
Su-Raj Party being discussed, she called me. But by the time I reached the 
TV, whatever was being said about GSRP was over. When questioned what was 
being discussed, this is what I was told. That they fumbled with the Party 
name and my name. That Adv. Radharao said that here is a  party which fields 
good candidates. But what is the use, they only want money.


Well, frankly speaking I was disturbed but my efforts to get Sandesh on line 
as well as Adv. Anacleto Viegas on line was difficult. I wanted to talk to 
Adv. Radharao for confirmation and I don't have his telephone number. Hence 
the statement demanding full and proper apology.


Eventually, I got in touch with Sandesh to get hold of the VCD of the 
debate. When I told him that my information was the Adv. Radharao has 
defamed the Goa Su-Raj Party, he vehemently denied that this was the case 
and asked me to watch the telecast on Sunday (today) for confirmation.


I have just seen the telecast and what was said is the following by Adv. 
Gracias when asked by the host:


Sandesh:   YOU ARE LIKE A MANUFACTURING FIRM. YOU MANUFACTURE MLAS AND THEY 
MOVE OFF TO SOME OTHER PARTIES. OBVIOUSLY YOUR PARTY HAS NO IDEOLOGY. WHAT 
HAVE YOU TO SAY?


Adv Gracias:  UGDP HAS ITS OWN IDEOLOGY. LIKEWISE THERE IS GOA SU-RAJ PARTY 
OF FROILAN ALSO WITH GOOD IDEOLOGY . THE PARTY HAS FIELDED CANDIDATES 
WITH NO MONEY POWER. THEIR CANDIDATES HAVE NOT CROSSED 300 VOTES. PEOPLE 
WANT MONEY SO WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF IDEOLOGY?


Therefore the money statement here has been wrongly heard or read.

Therefore, I, Floriano Lobo, General Secretary of GSRP - retract my earlier 
statement and offer due apology to UGDP and to Adv. Radharao Gracias.



Cheers
floriano
goasuraj
9890470896
www.goasu-raj.org

PS: It is GSRP's determination to root out 'money power' play from Goan 
Elections altogether and show that 'candidates' can also win with perfect 
ideology along with a perfect 'system of governance' as manifesto for the 
elections. This party believes that the literate people of Goa must vote for 
' the best system of governance' rather than the money spending, muscle 
flexing individual candidates.









It is not ENOUGH that GOOD, HONEST citizens  contest elections.
It is not ENOUGH that GOOD, HONEST  citizen voters elect good, honest 
representatives.

GOA urgently needs  'GOOD, HONEST, DISCIPLINED SYSTEM of GOVERNANCE'.
Wherein, even a dishonest person is forced to be good, honest n disciplined, 
or to QUIT.


Only through PPS can such 'good, honest n disciplined system of governance' 
be identified and accepted.


PPS GOA =PEOPLE for POLITICAL SANITY = PEOPLE'S POWER SYSTEM
for a date in 2012

Display the 'PPS' sticker on your vehicle today, to reject political madness 
tomorrow. 

[Goanet] Clarification: No Throat Swabs collected fro m the village…

[JoeGoaUk]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *


Two new showrooms/office spaces, double height (135 sq m each with bath)
for lease in upscale Campal/Miramar beach area, Panaji, Goa.
Contact: goaengineer...@aol.com



Clarification: No Throat Swabs collected from the village…
 
This has reference to the earlier post sub: First Goan Dies of Swine Flu
 ( Total Deaths in Goa 3)
 
The news item that was published by TOIgoa  seems wrong.
(also see the link below)
It was also seen on the net at several other places.
 
This mail I got just now from one of the villagers.
Reproducing here for your info.
 
 
Quote:.
 
Hi Joe,
 
This girl is from my village, NUEM, Cabo-de-Rama.
 
Government officials had visited our village but no throat swabs were taken..  
This 
was wrongly reported by newspapers.  In fact the girl was showing progress 
of recovery but untimely death took her away from her loved ones and us.  Her 
only brother is on the ship, who could not make it for the funeral.  She is the 
only daughter in the family (Brother  Sister).  The whole village is very sad 
and mourning.
 
Thanks
 
Unquote:
Sender's ID withheld as the mail sent to My email ID.
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/city/goa/250-swabs-from-1-village-sent-for-test/articleshow/4961678.cms
 
Swine Flu Stats:
as on 6/9/09
 



Goa deaths 3
Goa Confirm cases 31
 
India  deaths 131
Mahrastra alone 62
 
India confirmed cases 4,738
 
joego...@yahoo.co.uk 

for Goa  NRI related info... 
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ 

For Goan Video Clips 
http://youtube.com/joeukgoa 

In Goa, Dial  1 0 8 
For Hospital, Police, Fire etc


  

[Goanet] Clarification on rumours of ARSON in Benaulim Last Night

[floriano]

We heard reports coming from Benaulim that last night, after the BVAC's
confrontation with the Colva Police station regarding the arrests of 2
Benaulim youths, where the stand-off continued well into the night, that the
people of Benaulim collectively stoned the houses of the Benaulim Sarpanch
and some of the Panch Members. As I am writing this,  I have reports that
this arson is being presently covered by the TV News Channel 'Prudent Media'
where the house of the Benaulim Sarpanch is reported to be in bad shape
after the said arson.

A short while ago, I spoke to Gerandine Fernandes, the convenor of BVAC  to
confirm the reports on arson and if BVAC was in anyway involved.  And just
as well, Geraldine has denied any and all involvement of the BVAC or the
citizens connected to BVAC in this arson. She has gone on record to say that
this is a planned arson executed from the other side to finish BVAC and its
agitation.  In her own words  We are battling to send the correct picture
that there are forces, official or otherwise wanting to intimidate  BVAC
through pinning of this arson on to it, so that life of the members
associated with BVAC are made miserable.

Therefore, the message is: Look elsewhere to hold the culprits accountable
for this arson. We knew Geraldine  Co. would never agree to such a deed. We
are proud of BVAC and its accomplishments.

We strongly suggest that BVAC gets into the next election mode of the
Benaulim Panchayat  by fielding a 'PANEL' of candiates who will have 'AGREED
TO DISAGREE' on a set written down  Manifesto and the code of conduct for
the Panchayat members  whetted by the entire village of Benaulim.  The
entire Benaulim should support the 'panel' and get the People's Panel
elected to the Panchayat. It will then be so easy to not only beautify
Benaulim but afford all Benaulimkars to live in peace and enjoy every good
night sleep. This 'Panel' System of elections to Panchayats Goa wise could
be the raison d'etre of the Panchayati Raj system of self governance  where
'agree to disagree' makes all the difference and where individual persons
with hidden agendas are eliminated from the race of panchayat elections.

Goa can then see Benaulim crawling back to normalcy, affording the beauty
and the original hospitality of the people to the entire world.


floriano
goasuraj

[Goanet] clarification

[Eugene Correia]

**
This brings me to an healthy relationship between the organizers, particularly 
the husband-and-wife team of Kevin and Lisett.
*

Let me clarify that what I meant to write was that there was an UNHEALTHY 
relationship among the organisers, particularly the husband-and-wife team of 
Kevin and Lisette and the others.

eugene


  

[Goanet] CLARIFICATION

[floriano]

I am in complete disagreement with the part of mail circulated on Goanet
today with the above heading by Floriano Lobo. The objectionable part 
being

the following means and ways of a compromise between mining and
preservation of Goa's environmental and ecological balance.



Seby.

***


C L A R I F I C A T I O N

That Sebastian Rodrigues and Ramesh Gauns should be wholesomely 'disturbed'
by the use of the word 'COMPROMISE' in our earlier post is fully
understandable, justified. There is no compromise as such with the act of
devastation that is ongoing in the name of mining in Goa with any one. Our
publicly recorded statements on the devastation that has been caused by the
irresponsible mining in Goa  has always been that  'the mineral wealth of
Goa is the Goa given gift to the people of Goa, and not to the mine owners,
mine operrators, the government of Goa or to the Central government. If the
extraction of this God given wealth of Goa does not benefit the people of
Goa and instead it devastates their health and their wellbeing, their water
resources, their agricultural fields, their forests, their wild life, their
environment their ecology including their entire villages, then let these
mineral resources lie where they are deeply burried, untouched and
undisturbed, whether the mine ownners, the Government of Goa or the Central
government likes it or not.

We apologize for the use of this word 'compromise'. As  is often said, 'it
is the slip of the tongue, not of the mind. As such the word compromise is
withdrawn.

Nevertheless, we do expect that attendees will want to shed light to their
inner feelings after seeing the presentation through questions and answers ,
which will be highly respected.

Sincerely,

floriano lobo
Gen Secretary GEAG; GSRP.


- Original Message - 
From: sebastian Rodrigues [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:57 PM
Subject: RE: It is TOMORROW the DATE - 12 JULY, 2008 - Manvin's



Hello!

This is just make my and my colleague Ramesh Gawas's position clear
vis-a-vis tommorrow's power point presentation. We believe mining is an
terrorist activity confronting Goa and it has to stopped once and for all.
We do not believe in any for of compromise on this position. We have arrived
at this position after years of painstaking and life risking working in
mining belt of Goa. We have been given letter on july 6, 2008 that we I am
reproducing here and there is nothing about 'compromise'.

I am in complete disagreement with the part of mail circulated on Goanet
today with the above heading by Floriano Lobo. The objectionable part being
the following means and ways of a compromise between mining and
preservation of Goa's environmental and ecological balance.

The problems created by mining industry is so much under focused in media
due to histrical control of the same by mining industry that it is important
that more and more people join the effort to expose mining terror in Goa. I
look at tommorrow's public power point presentation in this light.

Since this mail is sent on public mailing list, I am replying to the same on
public mailing list.

Warmly,

Seby

[Goanet] Clarification

[armstrong augusto vaz]

Hello Fredrick i read a comment on pen pricks saying ---

Both Armstrong Vaz and the Herald have taken the story from a Korean
website. The only difference is, Herald has partially rewritten the story,
while Mr Vaz has lifted it lock, stock and barrel.

And look who's complaing...


---



Here is an article which i wrote for the korean site and it is no the first
one for them

here is the link to the other articles of mine for the korean website --
http://english.ohmynews.com/english/article_list.asp










Leisure Boating Business Set for a Boom in India  Construction of marinas to
give boost to big-spending tourists
  Armstrong Vaz (armie)javascript:memo_send('at_code=433733')   Email
Articlehttp://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_email.asp?menu=c10400no=382040rel_no=1isMail=mail
Print 
Articlehttp://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_print.asp?menu=c10400no=382040rel_no=1isPrint=print


 Published 2008-03-12 11:20 (KST)

  Queen Mary 2 set sail on its 23-night cruising journey from Sydney to
Dubai, on Feb. 26 and will be visiting Yokohama, Hong Kong, Bangkok,
Singapore and Goa with a night's stay in Dubai.

The fare pegged at US$7,899 per person twin-share is a figure well above the
reach of the rich Indian a few years ago. But things are changing in India,
with a booming economy, Indians keen in splurging their extra fads of cash
have varied options in the holiday market and cruising is one of them.

 *TODAY'S TOP STORIES*
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Dignityhttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100no=382089rel_no=1back_url=
 New Era for Japan-Korea History
Issueshttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100no=382092rel_no=1back_url=
 Big Bang or Chaos: What's Israel Up
To?http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100no=382091rel_no=1back_url=
 Visitors From the Future Due This
Yearhttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100no=382090rel_no=1back_url=
 'Casshern' Dazzling but
Preachyhttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100no=382087rel_no=1back_url=

*FROM THE SECTION*
   Big Bang or Chaos: What's Israel Up
To?http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?article_class=3no=382091rel_no=1
 'High Times for
Pakistan'http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?article_class=3no=382083rel_no=1
 Is Musharraf Really Ready to Reinstate Pakistan's
Judges?http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?article_class=3no=382076rel_no=1
 Suicide Attack Leaves 5 Dead in
Kabulhttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?article_class=3no=382068rel_no=1
 Nepal: Road Towards CA Polls Yet to Be
Mendedhttp://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?article_class=3no=382074rel_no=1
   For many Indians, owning a luxury yacht is one dream they cherish.
Jeriton Dias, an Indian from western state of Goa is one of them. He is
sailing on Queen Mary 2. He has not bought a cruising holiday but he is one
of the 1,200 odd staff. For him the cruising holiday does not entice him and
his family anymore. He is looking to own a yacht, both for leisure and
business option and park it in Goa and explore more of the rural Goa.

Owning a luxury yacht and parking it in a designated marina in Indian waters
is a dream most Indians look forward to. Now question arises whether India
has sufficient marinas? Optimistic Indians have dreams for leisure boating
in India.

But is India ready for a leisure boating boom? Can a country, which does not
have any marinas along its coast, rival to overtake up market destinations
like French Riviera?

In the absence of marinas, parking can be a nightmare for yacht owners in
India and Goa is one of them.

But, the leisure boating industry is set to change if entrepreneur's plans
to set up marinas in Goa and on the Konkan coast get the mandatory
environmental green signals from the government.

One of them is a business tycoon from Goa and a keen water sports lover,
Umaji V Chowgule, MD, Goa Yacht Haven Pvt Ltd. Chowgule, whose family
business interests range from mining to brewing the popular Arlem beer in
Goa, is planning to build a 300-boat marina in Sancoale village, in Mormugao
Taluka, at the mouth of the Zuari river in Goa with an investment of Rs 100
crore (US$2.5 million).

The construction of the marina is set to give Goa's aim to get high-spending
foreign tourists a shot in the arm, which the tourism authorities and
ministers have trying to push albeit unsuccessfully over the last few years.
Goa, as of now, as a tourist destination, has been a favourite haunt for
back packers and low and middle budget foreign tourists.

The berthing facility for marinas is also likely to create around 1,000 to
2,000 jobs directly or indirectly related to industry.

A marina is a berth's facility where boats are 

[Goanet] Clarification: Prashant Naik is NOT a member of the Yuva de Goa.

[Miguel Braganza]

Dears,

I had made a passing reference to Prashant Naik [whom I first met at a
florist  shop at the old Margao bus stand named Lily  Lilac  with
which he is associated, possibly as its owner, and later as the
Chairman of the Shri Nirakar Saunstha, which is believed to manage the
SS Angle HSS- Mashem and Nirakar School, Gaodongrem besides other
institutions in Canacona] and the YUVA de GOA [the extreme words
sometimes written in Devanagri and connected by the Portuguese word
de in Roman script, if I remember their green jackets correctly].
The text is copied below:

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:09 pm (PST) Miguel Braganza
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Aaron Pereira, Gina Almeida, Nigel Britto and Megha Gulati reportedly
tried hard to contact Malisa Simoes, the YFG [**incidentally, the name
is a dead ringer for YUVA de GOA of the UGDP General Secretary,
Prashant Naik**, who played the Trojan role to the hilt last December 18
for the GBA rally at the same venue and denied Gerson da Cunha,
Adv. Norma Alvares, Wilson Mazarello and other listed speakers a
chance to have their say but introduced speakers of his choice. ] She
was either unreachable or did not take their calls last evening
..some of them from a newspaper office. She was supposed to be
coordinating with them ...when in practice she was staging a bloodless
coup!

It apperars that I have made a mistake, a BIG Mistake, if you like.
The YUVA de GOA is NOT of the UGDP General Secretary, Prashant Naik.
On 06 January, 2006, when some youth  in Green jackets emblazoned with
 YUVA de GOA on the back, played the dhol and tanso at the GBA rally
at Lohia Maidan Margao, there was no registered
organisation/association by that name in Goa. Obviously, this was an
unregistered group at the YUVA MAHOTSAV held in Margao a few days
earlier near Ana Fonte, an officially notified Silence Zone near BPS
Club, if I remember right.

The fact is that Prashant Naik, played the dhol [beaten by the Yuva
de Goa jacketed boys at other times] for some time and raised slogans
at the GBA meet  on 06.01.07 [after being told on 18 December, 2006,
to dissociate with either the UGDP or the GBA, as one is a Political
party and the other is avowedly Apolitical and neither of this
is of my making ;-) ]. Still, I am willing to accept that it was 'MY
MISTAKE to have said that Prashant Naik was of the Yuva de Goa. He
was not. There was no association/society in Goa by that name. Green
jackets do not make an association!

The above acknowledgement of MY MISTAKE is at the specific instance of
 Bhavesh Zambaulikar, first via phone on 27 December and then in
person on 29 December, 2007, in the Kala Academy foyer just before the
Goa Sudharop Inc. annual award function in the Black Box.

As per the Memorandum of Association of YUVA de GOA, Bhavesh from
Zambaulim is the Joint Secretary of the society. He was accompanied by
Yugesh Matha [ a grandson of the Angley and Kare families in his own
words, and from decent families, to boot!], the Joint Treasurer, a
Salelkar and one more person [all are professionals in their own
words]. On 25 July, 2007, Yugesh Matha is listed as a STUDENT and so
is, at best, in the first semester of employment, reportedly in Verna
Industrial Estate. Bhavesh has also listed his occupation as SERVICE
and, so, must be doing now what I gave up more than a decade ago ;-)

None of the foursome would commit themselves to whether Prashant Naik
came from  decent families. We do not have anything to do with
Prashant Naik they said [though, unknown to them, they might have had
a link at the Yuva Mahotsav as Prashant Naik is with the KBM that
organised it!]. I was brought up addressing my neighbours Shamba
Arondekar and Mahadev Pandre as Shamba Mama and Mahadeo Mama, the
caretaker of our paddy fields and coconut garden, Piru Harmalkarinn
was Piru Mauxi and Gabriel D'Melo, the man who did errands for my
father was Gabru Mama.

Caste and creed did not  ...and does not . matter to me or any of
my family members. I grew up in Xettia vaddo, mostly populated by
Xettt [Shet= Daivadnya Brahman],  Konknne [= Bhandari] ani Bamon
[=Saraswat] and knew the differences between Tar, Tari and Tarcars
...but never let that affect our relationships. My father was a
teacher and freedom fighter, my grandfather was an advocate and author
of a researched book on Mapusa and my great grandfather was a doctor
decorated by the Portuguese King. I do not know if that makes my
family decent. I do know that honesty is a way of life with us. I
may be vocal about it. The rest are honest all the same. Anyone who
knows my family will not easily separate the two!

Frankly, I was not amused at being threatened by this YUVA de GOA
brigade with prosecution for Cyber crimes because of my email below.
[Lord forgive them for they know not what they are talking.] The
stated objective of the YUVA de GOA is to work for the integrity and
better peaceful social life of the society, to create ideal citizens,
to promote literacy and 

[Goanet] CLARIFICATION

[cosmos ferns]

Mr/s FERNS Q 
   
  COMING STRAIGHT TO THE POINT YOU  SAY THAT THE DUBAI CUP IS GAMBLING 
  EVEN IF ANYBODY BELIEVES YOU THEY WILL STILL GO TO WATCH THE GAME 
  THINK IT THIS WAY GOANS ARE CRAZY FOR WHAT 
  FOOTBALL (SPORTS)
  TIART,DANCES (ENTERNMENT)
  SO GIVE GOANS TO WATCH GOOD TEAMS PLAYING AND IN THE BARGAIN COLLECT MONEY 
FOR THE GOOD CAUSE
  NO LEARNED PERSON WILL NOT FEEL BAD IN DONATING FOR THIS GOOD CAUSE 
  MR BONEEY CAME WITH THIS IDEA NOW HE IS A GOAN THATS THE REASON THERE ARE 
CRITICS THAT ALSO FROM A GOAN SHAME
  BUT SEE PEOPLE  FROM KERALA IF ONE PERSON INTENDS TO DO SOMETHING THEN THERE 
ARE THOUSANDS HELPING AND BEHIND HIM
  GOANS SHOULD LEARN FROM THEM EVEN AT WORK  I HAVE NOTICED THAT IF THERE IS A 
GOAN WHO IS EXCELLING IN HIS WORK THE PERSON WITH HIM IF GOAN WILL BREAK THE 
LEGS OF THE LADDER SO THAT HE DOES NOT COME UP 
  ALL YOU GOANS CHANGE THIS ATTITUDE AND BE LIKE THE KERALA PEOPLE WHO ARE 
ALWAYS ONE  STEPIN FRONT INSPITE OF OUR ENGLISH BEING SO GOOD
  NOW MR/S FERNS READING ALL THIS DID YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING EVEN OMETIME IN 
YOUR LIFE YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE SOME GAMBLONG IF YOU WERE INVOLED IN ANY OF THE 
TOP CATOGERIES
  THANKX LOOKING FOR A FEED BACK


COSMOS

   
-
 Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how.

[Goanet] CLARIFICATION TO MUMBAI MIRROR

[Ethel Dacosta]

To,
The Editor,
Ms Meena Baghel
Mumbai Mirror
Mumbai


July 27, 2007

Clarification to `Mumbai Mirror' report dated July 26, 2007 titled `Film 
Industry not for Goa as IFFI venue?'


Dear Editor,

This is with reference to the report `Film Industry not for Goa as IFFI 
venue?' reported in your esteemed tabloid `Mumbai Mirror' dated July 26, 
2007.


We would like to bring to your notice that the said article `Film Industry 
not for Goa as IFFI venue?' is in fact an old article titled `FFI plans stir 
to shift IFFI venue from Goa' reported in the `Business of Cinema' dated 29 
December 2006, and hence holds no current relevance today. The attempt made 
by your reporter to re-hash an old article, with a current dateline, by 
lifting content and quotes from the December 2006 report, is, hence, highly 
unethical and suggests malafide intentions to tarnish the image of IFFI.


We would like to clarify that much water has flowed between the Ministry of 
I  B and FFI since following the settlement of their grievances in December 
2006. To keep you informed, FFI since has been an active participant in all 
matters pertaining to IFFI; having represented themselves along with the 
Directorate of Film Festivals (DFF) at the recent Cannes Film Festival, as 
also the Steering Committee Meeting organized by the DFF in Mumbai on July 
19, 2007. Their participation and role towards the success of IFFI in Goa 
has been strategic to the success of the Film Industry as a whole. Hence the 
attempt to publish an outdated report seven months later by your reporter in 
your esteemed publication is an exercise in `mischief making.' We take 
strong objection at your publication's attempt to create a controversy when 
none exists.


To ensure fair and factual journalism in the future, we would request you to 
please clarify with the Entertainment Society of Goa with matters concerning 
IFFI, and its associate partners, before you publish factually incorrect 
articles. A printed clarification of this letter would be appropriate to 
settle the matter.



Ethel Da Costa
Public Relations Officer
Entertainment Society of Goa
Old GMC Bldg, Campal
Panaji -Goa
Tel: (0832) 2428112
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


cc: The Editor, Gomantak Times, Panaji-Goa 

Re: [Goanet] Clarification of Secularism

[Anthony M Barreto]

  http://www.GOANET.org 


   This month's Goanet operations sponsored by an Anonymous Donor


Dr Barad wrote: One thing that I am very certain
about is that the word Secularism definitely did not
take a birth or prominence in India after Babri Masjit
was demolished and after the inhuman crimes against
Christen and Muslim faith by Hindu brigade RSS. The
very inclusion of Nehruvian model of secularism which
was accepted after arriving at broad consensus in the
original constitution is very much indicative that the
above claim is not correct.

Dr Barad, birth and coming into prominence are
obviously not the same. Due attention was of course
given to the secular nature of the country in the
preamble to the Constitution. 
But the recent activities targetted against Muslims
and Christians in Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar
Pradesh, Rajasthan and Orissa put the word 'secular'
as enshrined in the Constitution back into focus.
Before that the word was hardly ever discussed. 
With best regards
Tony Martin


 


**
  Anthony M Barreto aka Tony Martin 
  Freelance Writer and Author 
Galgibaga, Canacona, Goa -- 403728
M: 9422390701 R: 91-0832-2632012
  www.canacona.net
  *


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Goanet] Clarification of Secularism

[Dr. U. G. Barad]

  http://www.GOANET.org 


   This month's Goanet operations sponsored by an Anonymous Donor


In context with my message on Secularism I thought I should add
clarification on what prompted me to post caustic, debatable, highly
flammable and highly controversial text on secularism. 

When I observed number of postings on Secularism in Goanet I thought I could
post our group's discussion on the subject to Goanet (Please read a brief on
our group). This was done by me neither to say that was the final version on
the topic nor to indicate that I or the group knows more on this topic. We
too could not arrive at any final version but what we concluded was the
actual prevailing scenario on Secularism. More over the message is meant to
highlight how our politicians are taking us on golden ride using secularism
as their vehicle.  

One thing that I am very certain about is that the word Secularism
definitely did not take a birth or prominence in India after Babri Masjit
was demolished and after the inhuman crimes against Christen and Muslim
faith by Hindu brigade RSS. The very inclusion of Nehruvian model of
secularism which was accepted after arriving at broad consensus in the
original constitution is very much indicative that the above claim is not
correct. 

Secondly from the framing of constitution to date RSS are trying to bring in
their own version of secularism which is quite detrimental to our India, to
our Goa and to our posterity. In this context its worth turning pages of
World history which indicates that all countries in the world who tried to
bring religion in government functioning has collapsed miserably.  

A BRIEF ON OUR GROUP: In Margao we have one non-registered friendly group
which meets every Saturday evening. The members of this group are Hindus,
Muslims and Catholics from Goa with each member has affiliations to
different political parties like Congress, NCP, BJP, UGDP, MG, including
newly formed Save Goa Front. All members are educated and experience
professionals. Group comprises of medical practitioners  related
professionals, engineers, lawyers, teachers, social workers, political
activists, etc. Though any educated Goan can join the group without any fees
NO MEMBER IS ALLOWED TO PERSONALIZE AN ATTACK ON ANY INDIVIDUAL MEMBER
WITHIN THE GROUP. On the meeting day members are free to order drinks and
snacks and the total bill is equally shared within the members present. All
members love to show their presence in the group. 

Our discussions ranges from Bollywood to Hollywood, politics to religion,
social work to paid work, NGOs to Government departments, science to
literature, Goa to India, etc. Each member is free to voice his own feelings
without any moderation. 

We try to have healthy discussions on any topic and try to arrive at
consensus not to impose but to conclude the healthy discussion on the topic.
The group does not impose any views on its members. We do this as a
self-improvement exercise.   

Best regards,

Dr. U. G. Barad
Margao - Goa

Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Santosh Helekar]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May
 There is no better, value for money, guest house.
  Confirm your bookings early or miss-out

  Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.

--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you doing a bit of 'yetha or vetha rree'?  This
is the fastest 'yetha or vetha ree / turn-around'
that
I have seen. And THIS is embarrassing for someone
who calls himself a scientist.  Likely you really do
not know what you are writing. (Like denying
Jayant's written statement / belief in the Goan
kani)


Gilbert,

It is unfortunate that you find it necessary to insult
me in every single one of your posts.

Interspersed below are my final comments on this
thread. If you want to reply to this, please do it
without resorting to any more insults.


There was little that Jayant said that contradicted
me. Unlike you and a few others, Jayant even agreed
with me about the kani existing in Goa, albeit not
exclusively. :=))


False. Jayant said that there is no such kaanni
specifically in Goa. I have spent the first 25 years
of my life in Goa. I went to medical college in Goa,
the same one that Jayant went to. I have never heard
such a kaanni in Goa.


 1. The Goan kani, which you deny exists - hence this
 discussion is really moot.


Jayant who has practiced cancer surgery in Goa denies
that there is such a kaanni among grandmothers in Goa.


 2. The possible deleterious effects of surgery in
 cancer - for whatever reason - REPEAT by whatever
 mechanism.


Here is what Jayant says at
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2006-October/049308.html:

For some types of cancers, excision of tumour could
have deleterious effect on the patient, but in reality
this is the exception rather than the rule. In fact, a
recent paper in JCO suggests that surgery even in the
presence of metastasis is good for the patient.



3. The deleterious effects of surgery on the immune
 system. 


The deleterious effect of surgical stress is a
separate matter, and a more general one, as addressed
by me. Both Jayant and I have pointed out that it does
not apply to the effects implied in your erroneous
description of the so-called mouse experiment.

 
 In a related simile, Galileo observed the earth
 revolves around the sun. Galileo did not know about
 Newton's gravitation and other astronomers' theories
 why that happened.  The mauxis had the power of
 observation. The explanations for their observations
 is / are for latter-day scientists to work on and
 advance.  And there may be several explanations for
 the observations which are not mutually exclusive.
 

There is only one explanation for Galileo's
observation. The force of gravity! 

For the inhibitory effects of the primary tumor on
metastatic growth in Lewis lung carcinoma, Folkman's
lab has shown that the explanation is the secretion of
angiostatin, which inhibits tumor blood vessel
formation. They have ruled out the involvement of the
immune system by observing the same results in
immunodeficient mice (SCID mice).


Unless of course, if you want to wager with me to
donate, to a charity of my designation, if I show you
studies in mice and/ or humans showing the possible
deleterious effects of major surgery on cancer
survival compared to smaller operations (beyond of
course the operative mortality).:=))  


If you can, all I ask you to do is to tell me where
you read the description of the so-called mouse
experiment that you provided in this forum. I submit
to you and prove to you privately that your decription
was completely inaccurate.


This is the thrust of the mauxis' kani, in case you
missed it.  
 

Please note that you referred to grandmother's kaanni.
Mauxi is a Konkani word for maternal aunt, not for a
grandmother.

Cheers,

Santosh
___
Goanet mailing list
Goanet@lists.goanet.org
http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org

Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Gilbert Lawrence]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May
 There is no better, value for money, guest house.
  Confirm your bookings early or miss-out

  Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.

Hi Radha,

To begin with, thank you for following this thread.  I would think by now most 
goanetters have given up on two guys arguing more and more about less and less.

In response to your post, do I need to do the entire research all by myself?  
If someone else is interested in the topic, should they not share in the 
home-assignment?
In my experience, people doing their own home-work will learn from independent 
sources the same facts that I have.
This, rather than the detractors just sitting in front of their keyboard, being 
a contrarian and claiming tho kitem zano?

As you mentioned about the inquisition in Goa, do you remember one poster 
accuse me of making up the history of the inquisition?  A few posts later, the 
same poster was accusing me that, my writings were merely copying what the 
historians of the period and other experts were saying.  All this while the 
zapper did not post any information about the inquisition except the name of 
the bishop (not viceroy or king) who introduced the inquisition to Goa.

Kind Regards, GL

--- Radhakrishnan Nair 

This is very typical of Dr Gilbert Lawrence. He makes an assertion and then 
expects others to do the research and provide the material to substantiate his 
claims. Remember the seemingly never-ending debate on Inquisiton in Goa? 
 

 
Dr Gilbert Lawrence wrote: I look forward to reading the four or 
five papers and your comments and discussion on EACH of them.  Very 
likely, as soon as Jayant sent you his post, you read these papers and 
undertook a detailed and critical analysis of the data and 
conclusions.  Hence, this chore of mailing to me the material (that 
you have) should be 'a piece of cake'.  Similarly if your protege 
Sunith (and others) did this research, he is welcome to e-mail / mail 
me his analysis of the data and conclusions of his reading of these 
papers.
___
Goanet mailing list
Goanet@lists.goanet.org
http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org

Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Santosh Helekar]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Gilbert,

Sorry to note that you have not read the papers cited
by Jayant. Let me assure you that they do not describe
the so-called mouse experiment that you claimed was
done a few years ago. Indeed, one of the papers, the
1994 one from Judah Folkman's lab completely refutes
your claim about the involvement of the immune system.
Please refer to Jayant's response for the correct
citations. You can go to any medical school library
and photocopy those papers. Nowadays, all libraries
have self-service coin or card operated xerox
machines. It is very simple to use them.

Now, as far as papers involving lung tumors and
survival in mice is concerned, as promised in my last
post, I will email you privately a list of all
pertinent papers since 1957. There is also a 1910
paper and a 1913 one. I have not perused the latter
two. Again, please go to a medical library and get
your own xerox copies. 

Since you may not be familiar with mouse experiments,
I will be happy to help you if you have any difficulty
in understanding them. Upon reading them carefully and
understanding them you will realize that none of the
experiments described in them fit your description of
the so-called mouse experiment. In fact, you will find
that some of the papers published in the 1960s and 70s
directly contradict what you claimed in your erroneous
description.

Cheers,

Santosh 

 --- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I look forward to reading the four or five papers
 and your comments and discussion on EACH of them. 
 Very likely, as soon as Jayant sent you his post,
 you read these papers and undertook a detailed and
 critical analysis of the data and conclusions. 
 Hence, this chore of mailing to me the material
 (that you have) should be 'a piece of cake'. 
 Similarly if your protege Sunith (and others) did
 this research, he is welcome to e-mail / mail me his
 analysis of the data and conclusions of his reading
 of these papers.  
 
___
Goanet mailing list
Goanet@lists.goanet.org
http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org

Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Radhakrishnan Nair]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Dr Gilbert Lawrence wrote: I look forward to reading the four or
five papers and your comments and discussion on EACH of them.  Very
likely, as soon as Jayant sent you his post, you read these papers and
undertook a detailed and critical analysis of the data and
conclusions.  Hence, this chore of mailing to me the material (that
you have) should be 'a piece of cake'.  Similarly if your protege
Sunith (and others) did this research, he is welcome to e-mail / mail
me his analysis of the data and conclusions of his reading of these
papers.

This is very typical of Dr Gilbert Lawrence. He makes an assertion and
then expects others to do the research and provide the material to
substantiate his claims. Remember the seemingly never-ending debate on
Inquisiton in Goa?

Cheers,
RKN
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[Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Gilbert Lawrence]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May
 There is no better, value for money, guest house.
  Confirm your bookings early or miss-out

  Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.

Hi Santosh,

Thank you for sending me your research on this topic.  I look forward to it.

You are right, after I read Jayant's post, it went into file 13 (delete 
section).  There was little that Jayant said that contradicted me. Unlike you 
and a few others, Jayant even agreed with me about the kani existing in Goa, 
albeit not exclusively. :=)) I am still confused what is your issue with my 
writings.  To repeat:
1. The Goan kani, which you deny exists - hence this discussion is really moot.
2. The possible deleterious effects of surgery in cancer - for whatever reason 
- REPEAT by whatever mechanism.
3. The deleterious effects of surgery on the immune system. Please see your own 
repeated posts on this (REPEAT repeated posts) prior to Jayant's post.  Are you 
doing a bit of 'yetha or vetha rree'?  This is the fastest 'yetha or vetha ree 
/ turn-around' that I have seen. And THIS is embarrassing for someone who calls 
himself a scientist.  Likely you really do not know what you are writing. (Like 
denying Jayant's written statement / belief in the Goan kani)

I know about animal experiments. In my fellowship, I worked on drug 
radio-sensitizers using mice and primates.  Yet thanks for your offer to shed 
some light if needed.  Likely you know, but for the benefit of other readers, 
the animal experiment often provide the observation / result.  They may or may 
not provide explanation to the cause of the observation.  

In a related simile, Galileo observed the earth revolves around the sun. 
Galileo did not know about Newton's gravitation and other astronomers' theories 
why that happened.  The mauxis had the power of observation. The explanations 
for their observations is / are for latter-day scientists to work on and 
advance.  And there may be several explanations for the observations which are 
not mutually exclusive.

I look forward to seeing your mail and work on this subject together with 
perhaps a copy of Jayant's post. I would appreciate if you kept this as the 
last public post on this topic.  Unless of course, if you want to wager with me 
to donate, to a charity of my designation, if I show you studies in mice and / 
or humans showing the possible deleterious effects of major surgery on cancer 
survival compared to smaller operations (beyond of course the operative 
mortality).:=))  This is the thrust of the mauxis' kani, in case you missed it. 
 

You will soon have a chance at maintaining your reputation of zapping me on 
another mauxi's kani.
You know I was kidding about the wager.:=))

Kind Regards, GL

--- Santosh Helekar 

Sorry to note that you have not read the papers cited by Jayant. Let me assure 
you that they do not describe the so-called mouse experiment that you claimed 
was done a few years ago. Indeed, one of the papers, the 1994 one from Judah 
Folkman's lab completely refutes your claim about the involvement of the immune 
system.
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Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Santosh Helekar]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Gilbert,

Please don't feel bad about not being able to provide
a reference to substantiate your claim. It is alright.

In any case, if you need a list of all research papers
published since 1957, dealing with in vivo mouse
experiments related to cancer, then please let me
know. I will email it to you.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It is laughable to claim, that you went through the
published literature on animal experiments related to
this issue,  over the past 50 years. 

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[Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Gilbert Lawrence]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Hi Santosh,

Thanks for your willingness to demonstrate to me your research on this topic.  
Looking at (a list of) titles is a pretty poor way to know the contents of the 
paper. Would you not say so?  Yet, I will make it much easier on you.

Please fax me the papers that your friend Jayant referred to in his post with 
your thoughts / comments on those papers. My fax number is 315-624-5370.  If 
you care to snail-mail them to me instead, my address is: Department of 
Radiation Oncology, Regional Cancer Center, Faxton-St. Luke's Hospital, 1676 
Sunset Avenue, Utica, NY 13502.

I look forward to reading the four or five papers and your comments and 
discussion on EACH of them.  Very likely, as soon as Jayant sent you his post, 
you read these papers and undertook a detailed and critical analysis of the 
data and conclusions.  Hence, this chore of mailing to me the material (that 
you have) should be 'a piece of cake'.  Similarly if your protege Sunith (and 
others) did this research, he is welcome to e-mail / mail me his analysis of 
the data and conclusions of his reading of these papers.  

My thanks in anticipation for your efforts.  I am eagerly awaiting to read your 
scientific views on some scientific papers. No more 'fuggdi'.  Rautam tujea 
borea respostak. 

Kind Regards, GL

- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
if you need a list of all research papers published since 1957, dealing with in 
vivo mouse experiments related to cancer, then please let me know. I will email 
it to you. 
 
 
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
It is laughable to claim, that you went through the published literature on 
animal experiments related to this issue,  over the past 50 years. 

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Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Gilbert Lawrence]

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  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

Hi Santosh,

Every month in addition to my full-time clinical work of treating cancer 
patients, I read at least three cancer journals.  Next month is the annual 
meeting of ASTRO - American Society of Therapeutic Radiology and Oncology.  
Their book, with the abstracts of the proceedings of the meeting, is 720 pages 
and contains 2903 abstracts.  The scientific papers cover the fields of 
Oncology, Tumor Biology, 
Radiation Physics and new Technologies in cancer management.  To facilitate the 
review of all this material, my two colleagues and myself will each study a 
third of the papers. Then we will share the pertinent information of the 
different interesting and important scientific studies.  As I review these 
scientific papers, I try to remember all the specific details and references of 
the material I read, including authors, institutions, country. etc..  

It is obvious, by Sunith's own account of his profession, that the two of us 
are living and working in very different worlds. And the more separate we keep 
those environments, the better it will be for both of us.  With all due 
respects to him and others, a litany of disparaging words is a poor substitute 
to intelligent writing or seeking honest facts.  Disparaging sentences may 
impress those with a flair for English.  While the flair humors me, it does not 
impress this supurlo Goenkar. 

Do not take this personal, as this may or may not apply to you.  Some academics 
with a staff of assistants, postgraduate and undergraduate students, reportedly 
put in a 24-7 work-schedule. This is 24 hours a week and 7 months a year.  You 
obviously have a lot of time on your hands to go through the published 
literature on animal experiments related to this issue,  over the past 50 
years.   Or you may be telling us the truth, which is -  you are an 
under-worked scientist and gave your guinea-pigs  some rest. This  to review 
fifty years of animal experimentation.   This luxury of time unfortunately and 
definitely does not apply to us, in clinical / private medical practice.  

Dr. Jayant's reply in response to my original post speaks for itself - 
Straight from the horse's mouth.  This is not withstanding your  statement 
below; and you placing Jayant's post as a response to mine.  As has been 
repeatedly demonstrated on this topic, Mario - a cancer victim and survivor, 
had a much better grasp and understanding of my posts than the self-acclaimed 
English scholars and science academics.  And Mario was not the exception. Given 
the above reading requirements to maintain our proficiency and skill in our 
daily work, please drop your attitude that you are the only goanetter that 
understands science.  And as it applies to the rest of us, you can be placed in 
the classical (medical and other professional) dictum,  When one does not use 
it (the knowledge and skill), one looses it.  And to repeat myself, one does 
not get it (the knowledge and skill),  from www (world wide web) or being net 
savvy.

So, it is OK to accept that you are no authority on every aspect of science.  
In fact to accept your limitation will enhance your standing in the specific 
area of your expertise.  It is laughable to claim, that you went through the 
published literature on animal experiments related to this issue,  over the 
past 50 years.  Likely your five cronies on goanet will believe that, and will 
always be fooled. And they will come to your defense, with some scurrilous 
writings.  But not all goanetters can be fooled all the time.  

Instead of zapping / expressing your opinions (with little facts) on every 
science (and non-science) under the sun, why don't you educate us on  the 
neuro-science of Alzheimer, Autism, Parkinson Disorder, attention deficit 
syndrome, hyperactive children,  etc.?  Or perhaps these situations apply to 
humans, and may not be within your preview of expertise.  And hence your 
reluctance to cover these topics may be understandable. 

I have no time right now to search my scientific archives and do your's or 
somebody else's scut work. Now if you gave me a grant to hire a student to do 
your research, you would have your answer a lot earlier.  Your or Sunith's 
ignorance is not my responsibility.  If anybody does not wish to accept the 
findings and the explanations that I reported, please feel free to do so.  If 
Santosh and Sunith are very keen in getting their study, please, 'put your 

Re: [Goanet] Clarification regarding misinformation

[Santosh Helekar]

* G * O * A * N * E * T  C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *

  House for Sale: Recently restored and renovated 350 sq. mtr
   Antique Type House on 1,125 sq mtr property in Coimavaddo, Aldona
  No brokerage offered. Serious buyers only

 Visit http://www.goa-world.com/goa/aldonahouse for details

--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
To me, it is obvious that you and Santosh are not
aware of the published animal literature, even though
Santosh claims he is an animal scientist.


I have gone through the published literature on animal
experiments related to this issue, and have discussed
it at length with Jayant Vaidya. Neither he nor I have
found any research paper containing the description
provided by Gilbert over the past 50 years, let alone
a few years ago, as he claimed.

Cheers,

Santosh
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Re: [Goanet] Clarification ...... re castes in diaspora theGulf's contribution

[HELGA GOMES]

Hi Elisabeth,
I wonder about that although I hope you are right. Because Fatima and I have
lived a better part of our lives in Goa we have little hope that  castes can
be wiped off with simple economics. I would think that education from a
young age by progressive parents is probably the best bet. If I look back at
families who married regardless of castes, religion and Goan/non Goan tags,
they have been highly educated, progressive and very active in social
issues. Money hardly ever solves anything and I think you may be a tad
enthusiastic with your 'The mostly impoverished Bamon families'! Many are
very wealthy and successful in their professions and I dont think they have
'aching hearts'! However does that make them better humans? Its for each one
of us to judge and if they don't meet our expectations to avoid or even
discard.
There is a lot of angst over the caste system in East Africa with
discriminatory clubs and a very ugly mess it is. But I was equally offend by
the many Goans who even as they cry caste  turn around and berate Africans
and use racial slurs which in their bigotry they pass on to their kids. In a
case of 'its funny if it wasn't sad' I heard a young British Goan boy call
all blacks 'Humphreys' - that's how he pronounced it! On my few trips to the
Middle East I was also surprised to hear many Goans  berate the Arabs. I
guess discrimination is not the pejorative of a few - it exists in the
hearts of many of us who discriminate and then turn around and cry foul. How
can we forget the newly coined slur 'Ghantti'? It could be our greatest
contribution to the Books of Bigots!
Helga


To this end, I think the Gulf Goan has contributed
immensely in leveling the playing field. The Gulf
Goan, fled to the Gulf in the 1970s and by the 1980s,
with the rupee devaluation became a lakhpathi
over-night. The mostly impoverished Bamon families
back home had to sit up and welcome his petro-dollars
with an ache in their hearts and a smile on their
faces. The Bamon may have been the bank manager at
State Bank of India but it was the Gulfie's greasy
money he was after.

Moreover, astute Goan families in the Gulf made sure
they gave their children the best education money
could buy, shipped them off to the US or UK for
further education and groomed them with memberships to
clubs, overseas travel, music lessons, sporting
activities, etc. Second generation expat children
became indistinguishable in terms of their cultural
finesse from the so-called elite of Goan society.
They also became doctors, engineers, entrepreneurs and
all those things formerly reserved for the upper
echelons of Goan society.


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Re: [Goanet] Clarification ...... re castes in diaspora the Gulf's contribution

[Elisabeth Carvalho]

Dear Frederick  Helga,

It is sad that we are part of a society where one's
surname and geography are an indictment on one's
character.

That said, not wanting to sound overly optimistic or
trivialise the caste problem among Catholic families,
I do think the situation has improved substantially. I
do know of people who married across caste lines,
without too much ado or objection.

To this end, I think the Gulf Goan has contributed
immensely in leveling the playing field. The Gulf
Goan, fled to the Gulf in the 1970s and by the 1980s,
with the rupee devaluation became a lakhpathi
over-night. The mostly impoverished Bamon families
back home had to sit up and welcome his petro-dollars
with an ache in their hearts and a smile on their
faces. The Bamon may have been the bank manager at
State Bank of India but it was the Gulfie's greasy
money he was after.

Moreover, astute Goan families in the Gulf made sure
they gave their children the best education money
could buy, shipped them off to the US or UK for
further education and groomed them with memberships to
clubs, overseas travel, music lessons, sporting
activities, etc. Second generation expat children
became indistinguishable in terms of their cultural
finesse from the so-called elite of Goan society.
They also became doctors, engineers, entrepreneurs and
all those things formerly reserved for the upper
echelons of Goan society. Love began to bloom across
the aisle. And where love blooms good things blossom.

I once read a matrimonial that stated Educated and
cultured Bamon boy seeks only Bamon matches. Sorry
darling, you are neither cultured nor educated if you
believe that the world owes you something because of
an accident of your birth.

Elisabeth


--- Frederick \FN\ Noronha
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ha, lady! You've got a lot of catching up to do via
 the Goanet
 archives ;-)  Forget your trips to the zoo and
 Mexico, this is going
 to take you a year of Sundays.
 
 To make life easier for you: Goanet + caste search
 on Google, 3300 hits!
 http://shrunklink.com?hvd
 
 Cecil Pinto says I have invented much of the
 imagined linkages between
 castology and geographies ;-) FN
 


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Re: [Goanet] Clarification ......Tanzania re castes in diaspora

[Elisabeth Carvalho]

I've always been very curious to know how one could
tell the caste of a person. I'm reasonably fair,
with light eyes. I speak English with a British
accent, Konkanni with a Goan accent and quite a
smattering of French (if my life was at stake). How
would someone be able to identity me at a dance or
anywhere else? Is there a tattoo on my bottom perhaps
that I've not noticed all these years? This is a
serious question.

I'm so glad I grew up in the Gulf. There, second
generation expat Goans were oblivious to the caste
system of Goa. Initially there were so few of us Goan
families, that we banded together just for friendship
and cultural comfort, regardless of caste or creed. We
had Goan clubs for all Goans, wonderful dances and
football tournaments, and most of us went to a school
run by Italian nuns and affiliated to the University
of London. That de facto became a Goan Catholic
school.

It was only when I returned to Goa as an adult, that
the hideousness of the caste system in Goan Catholic
families became apparent to me.

Elisabeth


--- Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 As for the Goan Gymkhana Club in Nairobi, membership
 was restricted
 to the cream de creme- the Touchables
 Brahmins. And after
 membership was opened following  Kenya's December
 1963 independence,
 subtle forms of prejudice by brahmins continued to
 prevail. As
 also stated in my previous postings on the same
 subject, it was
 very apparent at dances when brahmin girls would
 refuse to dance with
 non-brahmin boys, and brahmin boys would not dance
 with non-brahmin
 girls- even though they studied with them from Grade
 1 thru
 to Grade 12.
 
 
 Tony Barros.
 Union, New Jersey.
 U . S . A .
 


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Re: [Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania

[Frederick \FN\ Noronha]

On 23/07/06, Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I amazes me that just a generation ago, most Goans
 would marry only someone chosen/okayed by their
 parents.

A generation ago (in the Goa of the late 'sixties), I didn't know what
electricity was, we studied by candlelight, and my brother and his
friends thought that the fridge (which didn't obviously work) would
help to hatch if a dozen were kept in it for 21 days. They just
rotted, and let out a terrible odour after exploding in the most
peculiar way.

We tend to look down on customs that are not ours.

Many of us may have decided on our own marriage partners, but I for
one would certainly not look down on 'proposal' marriages. In one
case, you fall in love first and then get married, while you do it the
other way around in the other case!

It's just a different way of doing things. Let's eschew the temptation
to look down on a form that we might not follow.

When Mervyn talks of only marring someone who was chosen/okayed by
their parents, is he being accurate? Even in a love marriage, the
parental approval is one of the factors (even if not such an important
factor). It might be more accurate to say that the parents initiated
the process of building the matrimonial alliance (or, marriage
contract, as some past governments called it).

And I'm not saying these things just because I've been a part of the
Goanet Cybermatrimonials column ;-) which incidentally is being
prepared for its shortly-due release by Christina Pinto in Australia.
FN
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Re: [Goanet] Clarification ......Tanzania re castes in diaspora

[HELGA GOMES]

Sorry Elisabeth that I have to break the bad news to you and many other ex
pats who thought that castes do not exist outside of Goa. They do - very
much. Whether in Toronto, Vancouver, and all the big cities in the USA where
our community has spread and of course in the UK. Maybe as a kid growing up
in the Middle East you did no notice it but the ME because it has a very
recent immigrant populace is especially culpable. Yes its more stratified
that our much loved bebinca. Why do moms bring their kids back to Goa to get
married? Because marriage is the one big highlight of our otherwise prosaic
lives when castes really matter.Please dont get me wrong - I am sure there
are many whose conscience is lily white but there are many others who
actually enjoy their 'status'.
 To your I've always been very curious to know how one could
tell the caste of a person - no its not tattooing for that would have
been too brazen. Fred quite astutely figured out a long time ago the
cunningness that delves in the question: Where in Goa are you from?.
We should speak about this more viva voce.
Helga




I'm so glad I grew up in the Gulf. There, second
generation expat Goans were oblivious to the caste
system of Goa. Initially there were so few of us Goan
families, that we banded together just for friendship
and cultural comfort, regardless of caste or creed. We
had Goan clubs for all Goans, wonderful dances and
football tournaments, and most of us went to a school
run by Italian nuns and affiliated to the University
of London. That de facto became a Goan Catholic
school.

It was only when I returned to Goa as an adult, that
the hideousness of the caste system in Goan Catholic
families became apparent to me.

Elisabeth


--- Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 As for the Goan Gymkhana Club in Nairobi, membership
 was restricted
 to the cream de creme- the Touchables
 Brahmins. And after
 membership was opened following  Kenya's December
 1963 independence,
 subtle forms of prejudice by brahmins continued to
 prevail. As
 also stated in my previous postings on the same
 subject, it was
 very apparent at dances when brahmin girls would
 refuse to dance with
 non-brahmin boys, and brahmin boys would not dance
 with non-brahmin
 girls- even though they studied with them from Grade
 1 thru
 to Grade 12.


 Tony Barros.
 Union, New Jersey.
 U . S . A .



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[Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania

[Tony Barros]

Hi Cornel, Mervyn n Rene !

After Tanganyika ( now Tanzania Mainland) got its independence
from Britain, the new government decided that organizations and
institutions should not use ethnic names.

Hence, the Dar es Salaam-based Goan Community Organization which
catered to the broad welfare of goans in Tanganyika, changed its name
to Saint Xavier's Society. 

Likewise, the name of the Goan School also in Dar es Salaam was also
changed to Saint Xavier's School. The same rule applied to Zanzibar
after it merged with Tangantika on April 26,1964 to form Tanzania.
Hence, I believe the existence of a Saint Xavier's Society on the
clove island.

and Cornel, not to be mistaken with the Saint Francis Xavier's
Tailors Society which was formed after tailors and all other goans
who had studied below Grade (Standard) 10, were barred from joining
goan clubs in the major cities and towns in East Africa. These
included shoemakers, auto (motor) mechanics and fisherwomen.

It had a two-pronged approach for as I have stated in my previous
postings on this website, it was also aimed at the local africans-
very few of whom (mainly christians from Christian High (Secondary)
school) studied beyond Grade ten.

However, many goans who served on these clubs' committees will give
you a different version . They state that the club barred them and
their kids- mainly sons as they spoke crude konkani, used a lot of
profanity -(curse language) and stirred trouble and fights during
social events.

And the tailors celebrated the feast of Saint Francis of Xavier
with a great dance splash  on the feast day- December 3. Strangely
enough, some of these very committee members used to attend the
functions. This also goes to state why goan clubs in East Africa
never celebrated the feast.

As for the Goan Gymkhana Club in Nairobi, membership was restricted
to the cream de creme- the Touchables Brahmins. And after
membership was opened following  Kenya's December 1963 independence,
subtle forms of prejudice by brahmins continued to prevail. As
also stated in my previous postings on the same subject, it was
very apparent at dances when brahmin girls would refuse to dance with
non-brahmin boys, and brahmin boys would not dance with non-brahmin
girls- even though they studied with them from Grade 1 thru
to Grade 12.


Tony Barros.
Union, New Jersey.
U . S . A .



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Re: [Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania

[cornel]

Hi Tony
I always find your posts ever so helpful as I learn so much new each time. 
Many thanks.

I'd like to make one observational comment on the point you made that  
brahmin girls would refuse to dance with non-brahmin boys, and brahmin boys 
would not dance with non-brahmin girls even though they studied with them 
from Grade 1 thru to Grade 12.

In Greater London something unusual happened re the above, for a relatively 
short while in the early and mid 1960s. Many young Goan men and women had 
moved here from East Africa while their parents were to arrive at a later 
date, that is, after their children had settled down and minimally obtained 
satisfactory jobs and accommodation in that order. Also, the parents 
generally stayed in East Africa for as long as possible to wind up affairs 
there.

The young men and women who arrived from a very sociable East Africa to 
London first, were very lonely initially. Their only respite, of sorts, was 
the regular Goan/Church social/dance scene in which I was significantly 
involved. I had arrived here among the earliest Goans to do so. What I (ex 
Mombasa) and my two Goan sociologist friends (ex Nairobi and ex Kampala) 
observed is that because of the absence of the parents as 'minders' the 
young men and women, you describe above, found themselves pretty 
unconstrained over who they socialised and danced with. In turn, the 
non-brahmin young men had a 'field day' in that the girls who had been 
entirely beyond their reach in East Africa, were now well and truly tucked 
closely in their arms, particularly when slow romantic dance numbers were 
played.

In many ways, this illustrates that caste consciousness is largely 
transmitted through mother's milk and an eagle eye after that, as the 
ofspring grow up. That it is distinctly racist seems to escape many a 
Catholic Goan and even Goan Catholic clergy today. It exists in subtle, but 
declining intensity within the Goan Diaspora now, but is pretty endemic and 
overt in Goa despite vocal and written protestation, against this view, by 
those who wish to deny its existence and persistence for a variety of 
reasons. A simple look at the daily Herald Newspaper, in Goa, indicates how 
real caste is among Catholic Goans especially when it comes to the time of 
marriage.

 In the short while when young Goan men and women were unconstrained in 
London by the beady eyes of their parents, often carrying their old caste 
baggage with them, I am aware that romances across old divides blossomed. 
However, as soon as the parents began arriving in London, these personal 
romances generally got curtailed and Goan village associations became 
institutionalised-- some were clearly village/caste based.

Thankfully, some village caste associations are now low on social attendance 
as the young people are increasingly integrated into cosmopolitan London, 
and not only NOT marrying within the community (let alone within the Goa 
village affiliation of their parents), but are doing so well outside such 
old constraints.

Many an older patriarchal and matriarchal Goan, still dying to maintain a 
kind of caste 'purity' knows virtually nothing about the unrestrained 
freedom enjoyed by their young folk when they had the opportunity to do so 
as illustrated above. The departed from among this group might yet turn in 
their graves!
Cornel DaCosta, London, UK.
- Original Message - 
From: Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: goanet@goanet.org
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 4:25 AM
Subject: [Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania


 Hi Cornel, Mervyn n Rene !

 After Tanganyika ( now Tanzania Mainland) got its independence
 from Britain, the new government decided that organizations and
 institutions should not use ethnic names.

 Hence, the Dar es Salaam-based Goan Community Organization which
 catered to the broad welfare of goans in Tanganyika, changed its name
 to Saint Xavier's Society.

 Likewise, the name of the Goan School also in Dar es Salaam was also
 changed to Saint Xavier's School. The same rule applied to Zanzibar
 after it merged with Tangantika on April 26,1964 to form Tanzania.
 Hence, I believe the existence of a Saint Xavier's Society on the
 clove island.

 and Cornel, not to be mistaken with the Saint Francis Xavier's
 Tailors Society which was formed after tailors and all other goans
 who had studied below Grade (Standard) 10, were barred from joining
 goan clubs in the major cities and towns in East Africa. These
 included shoemakers, auto (motor) mechanics and fisherwomen.

 It had a two-pronged approach for as I have stated in my previous
 postings on this website, it was also aimed at the local africans-
 very few of whom (mainly christians from Christian High (Secondary)
 school) studied beyond Grade ten.

 However, many goans who served on these clubs' committees will give
 you a different version . They state that the club barred them and
 their kids- mainly sons as they spoke crude

Re: [Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania

[Mervyn Lobo]

cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In the short while when young Goan men and women
 were unconstrained in London by the beady eyes 
 of their parents, often carrying their old caste 
 baggage with them, I am aware that romances across
 old divides blossomed. 


Cornel,
I amazes me that just a generation ago, most Goans 
would marry only someone chosen/okayed by their
parents. 

My mom always points out how unfair it must have been
for the first generation of educated women who,
despite being able to earn enough to support any
partner they chose, were not allowed to marry the
person they were in love with.

My reply to her, every time, is that these educated
women had only obtained a degree and not an
education. 

 
 Thankfully, some village caste associations are now
 low on social attendance as the young people are 
 increasingly integrated into cosmopolitan London, 
 and not only NOT marrying within the community (let
 alone within the Goa village affiliation of their 
 parents), but are doing so well outside such 
 old constraints.

Yep, same thing in Toronto. 
Once a women has a good education under her belt and
knows that she is fully capable of caring for a family
on her own, she is not going to be constricted to
marrying a Goan boy from a good family. Nor is she
going take abuse from a spouse for very long.

Mervyn3.0
PS. Strangely enough, my wife insists that she was
looking for someone crazy so that she could live.
She gave up a job in sunny Silicon Valley, moved to
Canada and has decided that she does not have to work
again. I am still trying to figure out who is the love
fool in the family. 

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Re: [Goanet] Clarification on the St. Xavier's Society in Tanzania

[George Pinto]

--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A simple look at the daily Herald Newspaper, in Goa, indicates how
  real caste is among Catholic Goans especially when it comes to the time of 
 marriage.

 From: Tony Barros [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  As for the Goan Gymkhana Club in Nairobi, membership was restricted
  to the cream de creme- the Touchables Brahmins. 


Whoa! Goan Catholics practicing the caste system! How is Gilbert Lawrence going 
to handle this? 
Let me guess: these East African Goan Catholics were not really Goans, they 
were Jewish Chinese
without a rock solid moral code. They, not Europeans, were responsible for the 
Inquisition in Goa,
and their atheistic Peruvian cousins from agnostic Kenya were responsible for 
building churches in
plots adjacent to, but not on top of, Hindu temples in Assam. See, it all so 
simple when you are
in denial, religious fundamentalist and ideological mode.

Regards,
George


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