subject:"\[hlds_linux\] \[hlds\] TF MvM hosting questions"

You can hide your server from the server browser using tf_mm_strict.  (The 
Valve servers will be configured this way.)  However that setting is entirely 
unrelated to which matchmaking pool you wish your server to be in.

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Matt Adams
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:42 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

So if I'm understanding this correctly will TF2 have a lobby similar to the L4D 
lobby where 6 people will join and start the search for a server? If that is 
correct I remember using the ms_force_dedicated_server command back in L4D 
one to force matchmaking to point to a certain server. Of course after the 
steamgroup option was added we didn't have to use it anymore. Any ideas if this 
will still work?

Also if you leave out the tf_mm_servermode 2 from the server.cfg will the 
server basically be hidden from all public matchmaking?

On 8/14/2012 12:16 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:
 OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

 * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or back 
 to any regular game mode at any time.

 Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has fewer 
 than 6 players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is 
 true.  However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to 
 cause several problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is 
 that the 7th, 8th, etc. players who connect on a map change will be 
 forced into spectator.  At any rate, we don't officially support that, 
 so if you do it, you're on your own.)  So, you should expect to 
 segregate your servers into MvM and PvP.  Don't just put the MvM maps 
 into the mapcycle file, that won't work.  (Actually, the mapcycle file 
 is slightly different for MvM because you really are cycling through 
 missions, not the maps.  Likewise, players can vote to change the 
 mission even if it's on the current map.  We'll have more details on 
 all this tomorrow.)

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 
 Fletcher Dunn
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:00 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated 
 Linux server mailing list (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all 
 the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate 
 all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on 
 the recommended settings tomorrow.

 Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
 actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

 I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts 
 of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in 
 PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major 
 deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured 
 vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server 
 browser will be the primary means for players to find those sorts of 
 customizations.  What will the most interesting customizations be?  What will 
 the standard tags be used that we request server operators to set in order to 
 help players find the modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't 
 like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your 
 players to figure out.

 I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
 detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and 
 the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme 
 example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are 
 no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking 
 the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will 
 start out with the server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how 
 the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions 
 about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of 
 adjustments your community prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this 
 mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than six players is likely to require 
 entirely new missions.  (The mission decides the pattern of enemy robots that 
 come at you.)  We have purposefully made it easy for players to create their 
 own missio
   ns.  (It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!)  But if you play 
 with more than six players, with the missions we've made, I think the balance 
 will be way off.

 - Fletch

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

6th

 From: flub...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5Th

 2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.com

  4th

  2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.com

   Third.

   2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.com

I second this request.

Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com

On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

 Is there any chance at all in having this update release 
 before 5PM
   EST??
 The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that 
 we
  didn't
have
 time to do much in the form of damage control and make the 
 needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be 
 nice to have
  it
 release early enough so we can set servers up without it being 
 into
  the
wee
 hours of the night again.

 I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
  appears
   it
 may be a beast.

 Thanks guys!

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf 
 Of
   Fletcher
 Dunn
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
 (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32
  server
 mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

 * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode 
 pool
  or
back
 to any regular game mode at any time.

 Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has 
 fewer
than 6
 players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.
 However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to 
 cause
   several
 problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that 
 the
  7th,
8th,
 etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into
  spectator.
 At
 any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it, 
 you're
  on
your
 own.)  So, you should expect to segregate your servers into 
 MvM and
   PvP.
 Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work.
 (Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM 
 because
  you
 really are cycling through missions, not the maps.  Likewise, 
 players
   can
 vote to change the mission even if it's on the current map.  
 We'll
   have
 more details on all this tomorrow.)

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
  archives,
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 inux

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Frank

Thanks Fletch!

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher
Dunn
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:51 AM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.



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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Saint K .

5 PM GMT would be a luxury for us in Europe. For us it's nightwork to get 
everything going :)

Saint K.

From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn 
[fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 15 August 2012 17:51
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
list(h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

6th

 From: flub...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5Th

 2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.com

  4th

  2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.com

   Third.

   2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.com

I second this request.

Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com

On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

 Is there any chance at all in having this update release
 before 5PM
   EST??
 The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
 we
  didn't
have
 time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
 needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
 nice to have
  it
 release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
 into
  the
wee
 hours of the night again.

 I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
  appears
   it
 may be a beast.

 Thanks guys!

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf
 Of
   Fletcher
 Dunn
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32
  server
 mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

 * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
 pool
  or
back
 to any regular game mode at any time.

 Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
 fewer
than 6
 players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.
 However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
 cause
   several
 problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
 the
  7th,
8th,
 etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into
  spectator.
 At
 any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it,
 you're
  on
your
 own.)  So, you should expect to segregate your servers into
 MvM and
   PvP.
 Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work.
 (Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM
 because
  you
 really are cycling through missions, not the maps.  Likewise,
 players
   can
 vote to change the mission even if it's on the current map.
 We'll
   have
 more details on all this tomorrow.)

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
  archives,
please visit:
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_l
 inux

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
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ux

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Benedict Glover

5PM EST = 10PM GMT
Which isn't half bad either. I'm normally up to midnight on update days.

 From: sai...@specialattack.net
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:59:34 +0200
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5 PM GMT would be a luxury for us in Europe. For us it's nightwork to get 
 everything going :)

 Saint K.

 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn 
 [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
 Sent: 15 August 2012 17:51
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
 mailing list(h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 7th.

 We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Benedict 
 Glover
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 6th

  From: flub...@gmail.com
  Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
  To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

  5Th

  2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.com

   4th

   2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.com

Third.

2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.com

 I second this request.

 Dr. McKay
 http://www.doctormckay.com

 On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

  Is there any chance at all in having this update release
  before 5PM
EST??
  The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
  we
   didn't
 have
  time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
  needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
  nice to have
   it
  release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
  into
   the
 wee
  hours of the night again.

  I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
   appears
it
  may be a beast.

  Thanks guys!

  -Original Message-
  From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf
  Of
Fletcher
  Dunn
  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
  (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32
   server
  mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

  OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

  * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
  pool
   or
 back
  to any regular game mode at any time.

  Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
  fewer
 than 6
  players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.
  However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
  cause
several
  problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
  the
   7th,
 8th,
  etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into
   spectator.
  At
  any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it,
  you're
   on
 your
  own.)  So, you should expect to segregate your servers into
  MvM and
PvP.
  Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work.
  (Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM
  because
   you
  really are cycling through missions, not the maps.  Likewise,
  players
can
  vote to change the mission even if it's on the current map.
  We'll
have
  more details on all this tomorrow.)

  ___
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
   archives,
 please visit:
  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_l
  inux

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
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 ux

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to change 
the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to what's in 
your mapcycle file.

So...

To host a PvP server:

* No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

* Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

To host an MvM server:

* Make sure maxplayers is 32!

* No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on this 
file will follow.)

* Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one mode 
or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any use of 
rcon, etc.)




From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions


A few quick questions, if I may.

1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like how 
Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and watch 
MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in and out 
after each match, like Arena mode?

I apologize if these have already been answered.
On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

-Original Message-
From: 
hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions


6th

 From: flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
 To: 
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5Th

 2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.com

  4th
 
  2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting 
  chefeification...@gmail.commailto:chefeification...@gmail.com
 
   Third.
  
   2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.commailto:li...@doctormckay.com
  
I second this request.
   
   
Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com
   
On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank 
ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:
   
 Is there any chance at all in having this update release
 before 5PM
   EST??
 The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
 we
  didn't
have
 time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
 needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
 nice to have
  it
 release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
 into
  the
wee
 hours of the night again.

 I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
  appears
   it
 may be a beast.

 Thanks guys!

 -Original Message-
 From: 
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
  On Behalf
 Of
   Fletcher
 Dunn
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com);
  Half-Life dedicated Win32
  server
 mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

 * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
 pool
  or
back
 to any regular game mode at any time.

 Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
 fewer
than 6
 players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.
 However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
 cause
   several
 problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
 the
  7th,
8th,
 etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into
  spectator.
 At
 any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it,
 you're
  on
your
 own.)  So, you should expect to segregate your servers into
 MvM and
   PvP.
 Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work.
 (Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM
 because
  you

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Nomaan Ahmad

What does tf_mm_servermode 2 do? Would this be a new mode?

On 15 August 2012 17:54, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

 The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to
 change the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to
 what's in your mapcycle file.

 So...

 To host a PvP server:

 * No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

 To host an MvM server:

 * Make sure maxplayers is 32!

 * No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on
 this file will follow.)

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

 If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one
 mode or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any
 use of rcon, etc.)




 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions


 A few quick questions, if I may.

 1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like how
 Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

 2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and
 watch MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in
 and out after each match, like Arena mode?

 I apologize if these have already been answered.
 On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 mailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
 7th.

 We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions


 6th

  From: flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.com
  Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
  To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  5Th
 
  2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.com
 
   4th
  
   2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.commailto:
 chefeification...@gmail.com
  
Third.
   
2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.commailto:
 li...@doctormckay.com
   
 I second this request.


 Dr. McKay
 http://www.doctormckay.com

 On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net
 mailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

  Is there any chance at all in having this update release
  before 5PM
EST??
  The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
  we
   didn't
 have
  time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
  needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
  nice to have
   it
  release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
  into
   the
 wee
  hours of the night again.
 
  I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
   appears
it
  may be a beast.
 
  Thanks guys!
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf
  Of
Fletcher
  Dunn
  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
  (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32
   server
  mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:
 
  * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
  pool
   or
 back
  to any regular game mode at any time.
 
  Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
  fewer
 than 6
  players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is
 true.
  However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
  cause
several
  problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
  the
   7th,
 8th,
  etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into
   spectator.
  At
  any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it,
  you're

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Jesse Porter

Take a few minutes and read up on the thread. All the answers are there.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote:

 What does tf_mm_servermode 2 do? Would this be a new mode?

 On 15 August 2012 17:54, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 wrote:


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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Nomaan Ahmad

Thanks, it adds to MvM pool.

On 15 August 2012 18:56, Jesse Porter reacherg...@gmail.com wrote:

 Take a few minutes and read up on the thread. All the answers are there.

 On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com
 wrote:

  What does tf_mm_servermode 2 do? Would this be a new mode?
 
  On 15 August 2012 17:54, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com
  wrote:
 
 
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Dan Offord

  * No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on
this file will follow.)

Will we be able to set where this file is? similar to mapcyclefile?

Regards,

Dan

On 15 August 2012 17:54, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

 The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to
 change the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to
 what's in your mapcycle file.

 So...

 To host a PvP server:

 * No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

 To host an MvM server:

 * Make sure maxplayers is 32!

 * No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on
 this file will follow.)

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

 If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one
 mode or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any
 use of rcon, etc.)




 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions


 A few quick questions, if I may.

 1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like how
 Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

 2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and
 watch MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in
 and out after each match, like Arena mode?

 I apologize if these have already been answered.
 On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 mailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
 7th.

 We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions


 6th

  From: flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.com
  Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
  To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  5Th
 
  2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.com
 
   4th
  
   2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.commailto:
 chefeification...@gmail.com
  
Third.
   
2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.commailto:
 li...@doctormckay.com
   
 I second this request.


 Dr. McKay
 http://www.doctormckay.com

 On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net
 mailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

  Is there any chance at all in having this update release
  before 5PM
EST??
  The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
  we
   didn't
 have
  time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
  needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
  nice to have
   it
  release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
  into
   the
 wee
  hours of the night again.
 
  I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
   appears
it
  may be a beast.
 
  Thanks guys!
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf
  Of
Fletcher
  Dunn
  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
  (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Win32
   server
  mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:
 
  * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
  pool
   or
 back
  to any regular game mode at any time.
 
  Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
  fewer
 than 6
  players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is
 true.
  However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
  cause
several
  problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
  the
   7th,
 8th,
  etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Yes, it works just like the mapcycle file.  We will ship a default one as an 
example, and there’s a convar that determines which one is actually used.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dan Offord
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:18 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Cc: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions

  * No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on this 
 file will follow.)
Will we be able to set where this file is? similar to mapcyclefile?

Regards,

Dan
On 15 August 2012 17:54, Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to change 
the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to what's in 
your mapcycle file.

So...

To host a PvP server:

* No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

* Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

To host an MvM server:

* Make sure maxplayers is 32!

* No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on this 
file will follow.)

* Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one mode 
or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any use of 
rcon, etc.)

From: 
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions

A few quick questions, if I may.

1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like how 
Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and watch 
MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in and out 
after each match, like Arena mode?

I apologize if these have already been answered.
On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 wrote:
7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

-Original Message-
From: 
hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com

[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
To: 
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

6th
 From: 
 flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
 To: 
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5Th

 2012/8/15 Vader_666 
 vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.com

  4th

  2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting 
  chefeification...@gmail.commailto:chefeification...@gmail.commailto:chefeification...@gmail.commailto:chefeification...@gmail.com

   Third.

   2012/8/15 Dr. McKay 
   li...@doctormckay.commailto:li...@doctormckay.commailto:li...@doctormckay.commailto:li...@doctormckay.com

I second this request.

Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com

On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank 
ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net
 wrote:

 Is there any chance at all in having this update release
 before 5PM
   EST??
 The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
 we
  didn't
have
 time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
 needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
 nice to have
  it
 release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
 into
  the
wee
 hours of the night again.

 I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update
  appears
   it
 may be a beast

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Essay Tew Phaun

Lucky number 7th.
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Essay Tew Phaun

Lucky number 7th.
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visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Ross Bemrose

While you're changing the voting code, can we pretty please have the end 
of map vote split into its own cvar instead of hijacking the nextlevel 
vote's sv_vote_issue_nextlevel_allowed cvar?


On 8/15/2012 12:54 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to change 
the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to what's in 
your mapcycle file.

So...

To host a PvP server:

* No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

* Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

To host an MvM server:

* Make sure maxplayers is 32!

* No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on this 
file will follow.)

* Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one mode 
or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any use of 
rcon, etc.)




From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions


A few quick questions, if I may.

1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like how 
Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and watch 
MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in and out 
after each match, like Arena mode?

I apologize if these have already been answered.
On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
7th.

We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

-Original Message-
From: 
hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions


6th


From: flub...@gmail.commailto:flub...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

5Th

2012/8/15 Vader_666 vader...@gmail.commailto:vader...@gmail.com


4th

2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting 
chefeification...@gmail.commailto:chefeification...@gmail.com


Third.

2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.commailto:li...@doctormckay.com


I second this request.


Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com

On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank 
ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:


Is there any chance at all in having this update release
before 5PM

EST??

The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
we

didn't

have

time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
nice to have

it

release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
into

the

wee

hours of the night again.

I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update

appears

it

may be a beast.

Thanks guys!

-Original Message-
From: 
hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf
Of

Fletcher

Dunn
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:17 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
(hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); 
Half-Life dedicated Win32

server

mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode
pool

or

back

to any regular game mode at any time.

Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has
fewer

than 6

players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.
However, in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to
cause

several

problems.  (I believe that what would actually happen is that
the

7th,

8th,

etc. players who connect on a map change will be forced into

spectator.

  At

any rate, we don't officially support that, so if you do it,
you're

on

your

own.)  So, you should expect to segregate your servers into
MvM and

PvP.

Don't just put the MvM maps into the mapcycle file, that won't work.
(Actually, the mapcycle file is slightly different for MvM
because

you

really are cycling through missions, not the maps.  Likewise,
players

can

vote to change

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Giovanni Harting

Hopefully we have enough player slots 

Im going to provide 5 servers with a summary of  160 slots and I can only
provide 30 playerslots.

In worst case this going to be a batte for the last free slots.

btw, reserved slot also not possible... this makes the 32 slot limit
more and more worst

2012/8/15 Ross Bemrose rbemr...@gmail.com

 While you're changing the voting code, can we pretty please have the end
 of map vote split into its own cvar instead of hijacking the nextlevel
 vote's sv_vote_issue_nextlevel_**allowed cvar?


 On 8/15/2012 12:54 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

 MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

 The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to
 change the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to
 what's in your mapcycle file.

 So...

 To host a PvP server:

 * No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

 To host an MvM server:

 * Make sure maxplayers is 32!

 * No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on
 this file will follow.)

 * Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

 * Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

 If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one
 mode or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any
 use of rcon, etc.)




 From: 
 hlds-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com[mailto:
 hlds-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Alastor Raynes
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:33 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Cc: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**comhlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF MvM hosting questions


 A few quick questions, if I may.

 1) Will it be possible to force a server to run in only MvM mode, like
 how Arena mode currently works? If so, how is this done?

 2) If a server has the capability, will spectators be able to join and
 watch MvM matches without SourceTV? If so, will they be able to cycle in
 and out after each match, like Arena mode?

 I apologize if these have already been answered.
 On Aug 15, 2012 10:51 AM, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com**
 mailto:fletcherd@**valvesoftware.com fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 wrote:
 7th.

 We'll do the best we can and are hoping to not release it too late.

 -Original Message-
 From: 
 hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:hlds_**linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:**hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Benedict Glover
 Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:47 AM
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**comhlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:hlds_linux@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions


 6th

  From: flub...@gmail.commailto:flubb**3...@gmail.com flub...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:42:15 +0200
 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**comhlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:hlds_linux@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
 
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 5Th

 2012/8/15 Vader_666 
 vader...@gmail.commailto:vad**er...@gmail.comvader...@gmail.com
 

  4th

 2012/8/15 Giovanni Harting chefeification...@gmail.com**mailto:
 chefeificationful@**gmail.com chefeification...@gmail.com

  Third.

 2012/8/15 Dr. McKay li...@doctormckay.commailto:**
 li...@doctormckay.com li...@doctormckay.com

  I second this request.


 Dr. McKay
 http://www.doctormckay.com

 On Aug 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.netmailto:a*
 *d...@gamerscrib.net ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:

  Is there any chance at all in having this update release
 before 5PM

 EST??

 The Meet the Pyro update released so late for many of us that
 we

 didn't

 have

 time to do much in the form of damage control and make the
 needed adjustments server side till the next day. It would be
 nice to have

 it

 release early enough so we can set servers up without it being
 into

 the

 wee

 hours of the night again.

 I believe that's just a very small favor to ask as this update

 appears

 it

 may be a beast.

 Thanks guys!

 -Original Message-
 From: 
 hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:hlds_**linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 
 [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 mailto:**hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf
 Of

 Fletcher

 Dunn
 Sent

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Ross Bemrose

Any word on how to configure the mission cycle file?  I think I speak 
for everyone else when I say I'd really like to have this configured 
before the update launches.


Also, does tf_mm_strict 1 let people who have the server favorited see 
it in their favorites list?


On 8/15/2012 12:54 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to change 
the map or mission.  Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to what's in 
your mapcycle file.

So...

To host a PvP server:

* No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

* Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

To host an MvM server:

* Make sure maxplayers is 32!

* No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file.  (More details on this 
file will follow.)

* Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one mode 
or the other, and players will not be able to switch.  (Barring any use of 
rcon, etc.)


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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Russell Smith

What's the situation going to be with the replay system?  Will that 
work with MvM or should we disable it for servers running the mode?


On 15.08.2012 11:52, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

There is currently no way to select a particular server or server
group in the matchmaking system.

The matchmaking system is not identical to L4D, because the
gameserver and the party members are all chosen at the same time.  It
is not a two-step process where strangers trickle into a lobby and
then you wait for a server.  You will never be in a lobby with
strangers, only invited friends.  Each search party waits, and then
and entire match (collection of 6 players from N parties) is started
on a particular gameserver.  This is how the current quickplay beta
works.




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread doc

More information on the mission cycle file will be given according to
Fletch.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Ross Bemrose rbemr...@gmail.com wrote:

Any word on how to configure the mission cycle file? I think I speak for
everyone else when I say I'd really like to have this configured before the
update launches.

Also, does tf_mm_strict 1 let people who have the server favorited see it
in their favorites list?

On 8/15/2012 12:54 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

MOAR IMPORTANT FACTS!

The MvM in-game voting system restricts the options given to players to
change the map or mission. Similarly, PvP voting restricts the options to
what's in your mapcycle file.

So...

To host a PvP server:

* No MvM maps in the mapcycle file.

* Set tf_mm_servermode 1 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a PvP map in your map cycle.

To host an MvM server:

* Make sure maxplayers is 32!

* No PvP maps in the MvM mission cycle file. (More details on
this file will follow.)

* Set tf_mm_servermode 2 (or 0)

* Boot the server on a MvM map in your map cycle.

If you do the above, the server will essentially be locked in either one
mode or the other, and players will not be able to switch. (Barring any
use of rcon, etc.)

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread dan


On 15/08/2012 16:51, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

7th.


Don't push us too hard. We've only just got over our confusion for what 
6 means :)

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread dan


On 15/08/2012 23:16, Russell Smith wrote:
What's the situation going to be with the replay system?  Will that 
work with MvM or should we disable it for servers running the mode?


It doesn't work now :(

Hopefully they'll get someone else looking at the bugs.

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread James Ives

Is anyone's server crashes when the map changes?

■ James Ives ■ ja...@jimo.co.uk




On 15 August 2012 20:21, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

 On 15/08/2012 16:51, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

 7th.


 Don't push us too hard. We've only just got over our confusion for what 6
 means :)
 --
 Dan


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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Russell Smith


Replays appear to be working on my server.

On 8/15/2012 9:25 PM, dan wrote:

On 15/08/2012 23:16, Russell Smith wrote:
What's the situation going to be with the replay system?  Will that 
work with MvM or should we disable it for servers running the mode?


It doesn't work now :(

Hopefully they'll get someone else looking at the bugs.




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread dan


On 16/08/2012 05:30, Russell Smith wrote:

Replays appear to be working on my server.


Do you never get this, and similar, errors? :-

http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2745226

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-15 Thread Russell Smith


Yes, but that's not a new issue.

On 8/15/2012 9:56 PM, dan wrote:

On 16/08/2012 05:30, Russell Smith wrote:

Replays appear to be working on my server.


Do you never get this, and similar, errors? :-

http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2745226




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

tf_mm_servermode 2 isn't required to host a MvM gameserver, is it?

No.  You don't have to use matchmaking at all.  You can host the server and 
play the maps just like any other gamemode.  Players can join through the 
server browser, favorites tab, direct connect, friend invites, etc.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Grimm
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:52 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

tf_mm_servermode 2 isn't required to host a MvM gameserver, is it?

From: 
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]mailto:[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 7:40 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
(hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com); 
Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
(h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

* Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the 
server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay beta).
* To accept matchmaking traffic, you must select which sort of traffic you 
want.  (Regular PvP traffic or MvM traffic.)  Set tf_mm_servermode 2 to be 
placed in the MvM pool.
* For MvM matchmaking, if 6 players are sent to your server to start a new 
game, it will switch to whatever map the players selected.
* You will need a TF gameserver account to accept matchmaking traffic.
* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or back to 
any regular game mode at any time.
* The CPU usage for a 6 player MvM game is about the same as for a regular TF 
server.  (Yep, this mode requires significantly more CPU cycles per player than 
the PvP mode, that's an unfortunate fact.)

Given the surge of players that comes with any major release, and the player / 
server ratio of this game mode, the demand for MvM servers will probably be 
high.  We expect that a large number of players will want to try out the new 
mode, so we will be converting most of our servers to host MvM, and then adjust 
the allocation based on what players are playing.

I, for one, DO NOT welcome our new robot overlords!

- Fletch
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Glib Tsyrklyevych

At what hour will the update come out? I am guessing it will be around 6
EST as usual?
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread daniel nilsson jokihao


MvM ?


On 2012-08-14 08:29, Glib Tsyrklyevych wrote:

At what hour will the update come out? I am guessing it will be around 6
EST as usual?
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread dan


On 14/08/2012 09:04, daniel nilsson jokihao wrote:

MvM ?


new game mode, see the blog here :-

tf2.com
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the 
bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate all 
those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the 
recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts of 
things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we 
encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major deviations from 
the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured vanilla, and the 
matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server browser will be the 
primary means for players to find those sorts of customizations.  What will the 
most interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags be used that 
we request server operators to set in order to help players find the 
modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't like?  We can't know that 
yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and the 
human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: 
imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are no bots.)  
Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking the game is 
speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will start out with the 
server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game unfolds and 
listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions about which areas to 
experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of adjustments your community 
prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with 
more than six players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission 
decides the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully 
made it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier than 
creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players, with 
the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only, like 
in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] 
On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 
server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty slot, 
in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players join, 
map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
- Reply message -
From: Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
(hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com) 
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, 
Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
(h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com) 
h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39

Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

* Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the 
server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay beta).
* To accept matchmaking traffic, you must select which sort of traffic you 
want.  (Regular PvP traffic or MvM traffic.)  Set tf_mm_servermode 2 to be 
placed in the MvM pool.
* For MvM matchmaking, if 6 players are sent to your server to start a new 
game, it will switch to whatever map the players selected.
* You will need a TF gameserver account to accept matchmaking traffic.
* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

OK, a little investigating reveals that this statement I made:

* You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode pool or back to 
any regular game mode at any time.

Is not really accurate!  Sorry!  If the server is EMPTY or has fewer than 6 
players, yes, there are no problems with switching --- that is true.  However, 
in general, switching from PvP to MvM is going to cause several problems.  (I 
believe that what would actually happen is that the 7th, 8th, etc. players who 
connect on a map change will be forced into spectator.  At any rate, we don't 
officially support that, so if you do it, you're on your own.)  So, you should 
expect to segregate your servers into MvM and PvP.  Don't just put the MvM maps 
into the mapcycle file, that won't work.  (Actually, the mapcycle file is 
slightly different for MvM because you really are cycling through missions, not 
the maps.  Likewise, players can vote to change the mission even if it's on 
the current map.  We'll have more details on all this tomorrow.)

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:00 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux 
server mailing list (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the 
bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate all 
those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the 
recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts of 
things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we 
encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major deviations from 
the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured vanilla, and the 
matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server browser will be the 
primary means for players to find those sorts of customizations.  What will the 
most interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags be used that 
we request server operators to set in order to help players find the 
modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't like?  We can't know that 
yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and the 
human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: 
imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are no bots.)  
Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking the game is 
speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will start out with the 
server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game unfolds and 
listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions about which areas to 
experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of adjustments your community 
prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with 
more than six players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission 
decides the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully 
made it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier than 
creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players, with 
the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only, like 
in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] 
On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 
server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty slot, 
in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Asher Baker

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all 
 the bots).

Any chance of seeing the hard-limit raised well above the current 33
(to 65)? And just soft-limited to the current values.

This would allow lots of room for experimentation in the future.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
 We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all 
 the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate 
 all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on 
 the recommended settings tomorrow.

 Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
 actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

 I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts 
 of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in 
 PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major 
 deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured 
 vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server 
 browser will be the primary means for players to find those sorts of 
 customizations.  What will the most interesting customizations be?  What will 
 the standard tags be used that we request server operators to set in order to 
 help players find the modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't 
 like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your 
 players to figure out.

 I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
 detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and 
 the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme 
 example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are 
 no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking 
 the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will 
 start out with the server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how 
 the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions 
 about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of 
 adjustments your community prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this 
 mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than six players is likely to require 
 entirely new missions.  (The mission decides the pattern of enemy robots that 
 come at you.)  We have purposefully made it easy for players to create their 
 own missions.  (It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!)  But if you 
 play with more than six players, with the missions we've made, I think the 
 balance will be way off.

 - Fletch

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only, 
 like in L4D2?

 Saint K.
 
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn 
 [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
 Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 
 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

 The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty 
 slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
 Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players 
 join, map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
 - Reply message -
 From: Fletcher Dunn 
 fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
 (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
  
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com,
  Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
 (h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com) 
 h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39

 Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

 * Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the 
 server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay beta).
 * To

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Cameron Munroe


Ohh GOD MY CPU! ITS MELTING


On 8/14/2012 10:18 AM, Asher Baker wrote:

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the 
bots).

Any chance of seeing the hard-limit raised well above the current 33
(to 65)? And just soft-limited to the current values.

This would allow lots of room for experimentation in the future.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the 
bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate all 
those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the 
recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts of 
things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we 
encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major deviations from 
the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured vanilla, and the 
matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server browser will be the 
primary means for players to find those sorts of customizations.  What will the 
most interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags be used that 
we request server operators to set in order to help players find the 
modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't like?  We can't know that 
yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and the 
human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: 
imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are no bots.)  
Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking the game is 
speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will start out with the 
server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game unfolds and 
listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions about which areas to 
experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of adjustments your community 
prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with 
more than six players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission 
decides the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully 
made it easy for players to create their own miss

  ions.  (It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!)  But if you play 
with more than six players, with the missions we've made, I think the balance 
will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only, like 
in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] 
On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 
server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty slot, 
in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players join, map 
changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
- Reply message -
From: Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
(hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com) 
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com) 
h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39

Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

* Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the 
server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay beta).
* To accept

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Out of the question.  Valve doesn't do 3.  Come on, you guys know this.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of T Marler
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:22 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

After working with our 3v3 koth stuff, I see a lot of 3's... HI VALVE

- Original Message -
From: Cameron Munroe 
cmun...@cameronmunroe.commailto:cmun...@cameronmunroe.com
Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
To: tmar...@shaw.camailto:tmar...@shaw.ca, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server 
mailing list h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com

 Awww my idea went out... Well now our idea.

 On 8/14/2012 10:20 AM, T Marler wrote:
 What about less than 6? Say... 3 Saxton Hales?

 - Original Message -
 From: Fletcher Dunn 
 fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:00 am
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life 
 dedicated Linux
 server mailing list 
 (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
  We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

  You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make
  room for all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive
  CPU-wise, to not only simulate all those players but run their
  AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the
  recommended settings tomorrow.

  Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to
  MvM:  I actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

  I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying
  out all sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation
  in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we encourage it, provided
  that players are opting in to any major deviations from the
  vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured
  vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit,
  and the server browser will be the primary means for players to
  find those sorts of customizations.  What will the most
  interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags
  be used that we request server operators to set in order to help
  players find the modifications they want or avoid the ones they
  don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something
  we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

  I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well
 above 6
  would be detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans
  to bots would be off and the human defending team would not have
  enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: imagine a 32-
  player server where everybody is defending an there are no
  bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without
  totally breaking the game is speculation of course.  I
  think a smart server operator will start out with the server
  configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game
  unfolds and listen to their players, and try to make smart
  decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming
  the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
  automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with
  more than six players is likely to require entirely new
  missions.  (The mission decides the pattern of enemy robots
  that come at you.)  We have purposefully made it easy for
  players to create their own missions.
(It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!)
  But if you play with more than six players, with the missions
  we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

  - Fletch

  -Original Message-
  From: 
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [mailto:hlds-
  boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On 
  Behalf Of Saint K.
  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

  Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the
  steamgroup only, like in L4D2?

  Saint K.

  From: 
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
   [hlds-
  boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On 
  Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn
  [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life
  dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)Subjectmailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com)Subject:
   Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting
  questions
  MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

  The matchmaking also supports joining games

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Dan Offord

Is there any chance of FreeBSD updates in this version?

If there you're using any custom configs for MvM will we be able to set
them (similar to servercfgfile?)

Thanks,

Dan


On 14 August 2012 18:28, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 Out of the question.  Valve doesn't do 3.  Come on, you guys know this.

 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of T Marler
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:22 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 After working with our 3v3 koth stuff, I see a lot of 3's... HI VALVE

 - Original Message -
 From: Cameron Munroe cmun...@cameronmunroe.commailto:
 cmun...@cameronmunroe.com
 Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:21 am
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 To: tmar...@shaw.camailto:tmar...@shaw.ca, Half-Life dedicated Win32
 server mailing list h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 h...@list.valvesoftware.com

  Awww my idea went out... Well now our idea.
 
 
  On 8/14/2012 10:20 AM, T Marler wrote:
  What about less than 6? Say... 3 Saxton Hales?
  
  - Original Message -
  From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:
 fletch...@valvesoftware.com
  Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:00 am
  Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com,
 Half-Life dedicated Linux
  server mailing list (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
  hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
   We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.
  
   You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make
   room for all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive
   CPU-wise, to not only simulate all those players but run their
   AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the
   recommended settings tomorrow.
  
   Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to
   MvM:  I actually don't think we have worked that out yet.
  
   I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying
   out all sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation
   in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we encourage it, provided
   that players are opting in to any major deviations from the
   vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured
   vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit,
   and the server browser will be the primary means for players to
   find those sorts of customizations.  What will the most
   interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags
   be used that we request server operators to set in order to help
   players find the modifications they want or avoid the ones they
   don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something
   we expect you guys and your players to figure out.
  
   I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well
  above 6
   would be detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans
   to bots would be off and the human defending team would not have
   enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: imagine a 32-
   player server where everybody is defending an there are no
   bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without
   totally breaking the game is speculation of course.  I
   think a smart server operator will start out with the server
   configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game
   unfolds and listen to their players, and try to make smart
   decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming
   the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
   automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with
   more than six players is likely to require entirely new
   missions.  (The mission decides the pattern of enemy robots
   that come at you.)  We have purposefully made it easy for
   players to create their own missions.
 (It's a lot easier than creating a whole new map!)
   But if you play with more than six players, with the missions
   we've made, I think the balance will be way off.
  
   - Fletch
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-
   boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Saint K.
   Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  
   Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the
   steamgroup only, like in L4D2?
  
   Saint K.
   
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-
   boun...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn
   [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Saint K .

Thanks a lot for the info, as always Fletch!

Saint K.

From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn 
[fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 19:00
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux 
server mailing list (hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for all the 
bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only simulate all 
those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more details on the 
recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I 
actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all sorts of 
things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same as in PvP: we 
encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any major deviations from 
the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be configured vanilla, and the 
matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit, and the server browser will be the 
primary means for players to find those sorts of customizations.  What will the 
most interesting customizations be?  What will the standard tags be used that 
we request server operators to set in order to help players find the 
modifications they want or avoid the ones they don't like?  We can't know that 
yet.  That's something we expect you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be 
detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and the 
human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme example: 
imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there are no bots.)  
Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally breaking the game is 
speculation of course.  I think a smart server operator will start out with the 
server configured relatively vanilla, and then watch how the game unfolds and 
listen to their players, and try to make smart decisions about which areas to 
experiment, rather than assuming the same sorts of adjustments your community 
prefers in PvP will automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with 
more than six players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission 
decides the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully 
made it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier than 
creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players, with 
the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only, like 
in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] 
On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 
server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty slot, 
in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players join, 
map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
- Reply message -
From: Fletcher Dunn 
fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:fletch...@valvesoftware.com
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
(hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com) 
hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, 
Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
(h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com) 
h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:h...@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39

Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

* Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games: the 
server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread slimecou...@live.com


So wait, will these servers have to be actual 32 slot servers to run MvM? 
Hasn't Valve always penalized for anything over 24 players? I just rented a few 
10 slot servers thinking this would be adequate to host some MvM matches. Is 
there no way around this?
  
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Cameron Munroe

Pretty much its 32 players for the 26 bots that you will be up against. 
So no 10 player servers wont work. The penalize is really for PvP, which 
I do understand.



On 8/14/2012 11:13 AM, slimecou...@live.com wrote:

So wait, will these servers have to be actual 32 slot servers to run MvM? 
Hasn't Valve always penalized for anything over 24 players? I just rented a few 
10 slot servers thinking this would be adequate to host some MvM matches. Is 
there no way around this?

___
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visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

The server will need to launch with -maxplayers 32 to host MvM properly.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Munroe
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:16 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Pretty much its 32 players for the 26 bots that you will be up against. 
So no 10 player servers wont work. The penalize is really for PvP, which I do 
understand.

On 8/14/2012 11:13 AM, slimecou...@live.com wrote:
 So wait, will these servers have to be actual 32 slot servers to run MvM? 
 Hasn't Valve always penalized for anything over 24 players? I just rented a 
 few 10 slot servers thinking this would be adequate to host some MvM matches. 
 Is there no way around this?

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
 visit:
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread 1nsane

Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. So we
could better experiment with this mode?
Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about joining
servers higher than 24 slots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:

 We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for
 all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only
 simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have more
 details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

 Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I
 actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

 I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all
 sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same
 as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any
 major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be
 configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit,
 and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find those
 sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting customizations be?
  What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators to
 set in order to help players find the modifications they want or avoid the
 ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we expect
 you guys and your players to figure out.

 I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be
 detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off and
 the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme
 example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there
 are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally
 breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
 operator will start out with the server configured relatively vanilla, and
 then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to
 make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than assuming
 the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
 automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than six
 players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission decides
 the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully made
 it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier than
 creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players,
 with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

 - Fletch

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup only,
 like in L4D2?

 Saint K.
 
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
 fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
 Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
 Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

 The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty
 slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
 Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players
 join, map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
 - Reply message -
 From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:
 fletch...@valvesoftware.com
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list (
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
 mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 h...@list.valvesoftware.com) h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 h...@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39

 Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:

 * Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games:
 the server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system (quickplay
 beta).
 * To accept matchmaking traffic, you must select which sort of traffic you
 want.  (Regular PvP traffic

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

I agree with 1nsane.

On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:

 Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. So we
 could better experiment with this mode?
 Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about joining
 servers higher than 24 slots.

 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
 fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:

  We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.
 
  You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for
  all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only
  simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have
 more
  details on the recommended settings tomorrow.
 
  Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:  I
  actually don't think we have worked that out yet.
 
  I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all
  sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the same
  as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any
  major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be
  configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player limit,
  and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find
 those
  sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting customizations
 be?
   What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators to
  set in order to help players find the modifications they want or avoid
 the
  ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we
 expect
  you guys and your players to figure out.
 
  I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would be
  detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off
 and
  the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an extreme
  example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an there
  are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally
  breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
  operator will start out with the server configured relatively vanilla,
 and
  then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to
  make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than
 assuming
  the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
  automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than six
  players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission decides
  the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully made
  it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier
 than
  creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players,
  with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.
 
  - Fletch
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup
 only,
  like in L4D2?
 
  Saint K.
  
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
  fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
  Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
  Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
  Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.
 
  The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an empty
  slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.
 
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
  hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
  Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
  Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6 players
  join, map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to expect?
  - Reply message -
  From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:
  fletch...@valvesoftware.com
  To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list (
  hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
 hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
  hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
  hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
  mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
  h...@list.valvesoftware.com) h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
  h...@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39
 
  Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers:
 
  * Players can join your server through any means they can join PvP games:

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Ryan Stecker

I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
missions involving more players and more bots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree with 1nsane.

 On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:

  Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. So
 we
  could better experiment with this mode?
  Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about joining
  servers higher than 24 slots.
 
  On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
  fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:
 
   We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.
  
   You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room for
   all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not only
   simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll have
  more
   details on the recommended settings tomorrow.
  
   Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:
  I
   actually don't think we have worked that out yet.
  
   I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out all
   sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the
 same
   as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to any
   major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all be
   configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player
 limit,
   and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find
  those
   sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting customizations
  be?
What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators
 to
   set in order to help players find the modifications they want or avoid
  the
   ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we
  expect
   you guys and your players to figure out.
  
   I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 would
 be
   detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be off
  and
   the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an
 extreme
   example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an
 there
   are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without totally
   breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
   operator will start out with the server configured relatively vanilla,
  and
   then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try to
   make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than
  assuming
   the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
   automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than six
   players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission
 decides
   the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully
 made
   it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier
  than
   creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six players,
   with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.
  
   - Fletch
  
   -Original Message-
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
   hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
   Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  
   Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup
  only,
   like in L4D2?
  
   Saint K.
   
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
   hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
   fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
   Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
   Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
   Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  
   MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.
  
   The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an
 empty
   slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.
  
   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
   hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
   To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
   Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
  
   Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6
 players
   join, map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to
 expect?
   - Reply message -
   From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:
   fletch...@valvesoftware.com
   To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list (
   hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
  hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com)
   hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.commailto:
   hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
   mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.commailto:

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Nerdboy

You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts of
resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a lot of the
engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game before we start
thinking about overhauling things to change it.
On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
 missions involving more players and more bots.

 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote:

  I agree with 1nsane.
 
  On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. So
  we
   could better experiment with this mode?
   Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about
 joining
   servers higher than 24 slots.
  
   On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
   fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:
  
We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.
   
You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room
 for
all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not
 only
simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll
 have
   more
details on the recommended settings tomorrow.
   
Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:
   I
actually don't think we have worked that out yet.
   
I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out
 all
sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the
  same
as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to
 any
major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all
 be
configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player
  limit,
and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find
   those
sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting
 customizations
   be?
 What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators
  to
set in order to help players find the modifications they want or
 avoid
   the
ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we
   expect
you guys and your players to figure out.
   
I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6
 would
  be
detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be
 off
   and
the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an
  extreme
example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an
  there
are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without
 totally
breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
operator will start out with the server configured relatively
 vanilla,
   and
then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try
 to
make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than
   assuming
the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than
 six
players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission
  decides
the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully
  made
it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier
   than
creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six
 players,
with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.
   
- Fletch
   
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
   
Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup
   only,
like in L4D2?
   
Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life
 dedicated
Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
   
MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.
   
The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an
  empty
slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.
   
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
   
Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6
  players
join, map changes logic just an

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

I dont think anyone is acting like its easy... Servers can already have
more than 33 slots, its just that the tf2 client doesn't allow players to
get on servers with more than 33 slots.

On 14 August 2012 20:19, Nerdboy nerdb...@gmail.com wrote:

 You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts of
 resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a lot of the
 engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game before we start
 thinking about overhauling things to change it.
 On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:

  I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
  missions involving more players and more bots.
 
  On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   I agree with 1nsane.
  
   On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:
  
Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit.
 So
   we
could better experiment with this mode?
Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about
  joining
servers higher than 24 slots.
   
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:
   
 We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room
  for
 all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not
  only
 simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll
  have
more
 details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

 Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to
 MvM:
I
 actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

 I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out
  all
 sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be
 the
   same
 as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to
  any
 major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all
  be
 configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player
   limit,
 and the server browser will be the primary means for players to
 find
those
 sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting
  customizations
be?
  What will the standard tags be used that we request server
 operators
   to
 set in order to help players find the modifications they want or
  avoid
the
 ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we
expect
 you guys and your players to figure out.

 I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6
  would
   be
 detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be
  off
and
 the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an
   extreme
 example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an
   there
 are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without
  totally
 breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
 operator will start out with the server configured relatively
  vanilla,
and
 then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and
 try
  to
 make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than
assuming
 the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
 automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than
  six
 players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission
   decides
 the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have
 purposefully
   made
 it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot
 easier
than
 creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six
  players,
 with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

 - Fletch

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the
 steamgroup
only,
 like in L4D2?

 Saint K.
 
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
 fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
 Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life
  dedicated
 Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

 The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an
   empty
 slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread ics

Current maps aren't designed for more so raising the limit right away 
isn't really usefull thing to do.


-ics

14.8.2012 22:19, Nerdboy kirjoitti:

You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts of
resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a lot of the
engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game before we start
thinking about overhauling things to change it.
On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:


I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
missions involving more players and more bots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote:


I agree with 1nsane.

On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:


Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. So

we

could better experiment with this mode?
Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about

joining

servers higher than 24 slots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:


We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room

for

all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not

only

simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll

have

more

details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to MvM:

  I

actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out

all

sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be the

same

as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to

any

major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all

be

configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player

limit,

and the server browser will be the primary means for players to find

those

sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting

customizations

be?

  What will the standard tags be used that we request server operators

to

set in order to help players find the modifications they want or

avoid

the

ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we

expect

you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6

would

be

detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be

off

and

the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an

extreme

example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an

there

are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without

totally

breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
operator will start out with the server configured relatively

vanilla,

and

then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and try

to

make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than

assuming

the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than

six

players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission

decides

the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have purposefully

made

it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot easier

than

creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six

players,

with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the steamgroup

only,

like in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life

dedicated

Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an

empty

slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the 6

players

join, map changes logic just an indicator of server behavior to

expect?

- Reply message -
From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.commailto:
fletch...@valvesoftware.com
To: Half-Life

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread ics

Things go unstable when there are more than 33 slots. Also there are 
engine restrictions that cannot be raised just like that. One thing is 
that entity limit of 2047. When one more is created in-game, crash happens.


-ics

14.8.2012 22:24, Nomaan Ahmad kirjoitti:

I dont think anyone is acting like its easy... Servers can already have
more than 33 slots, its just that the tf2 client doesn't allow players to
get on servers with more than 33 slots.

On 14 August 2012 20:19, Nerdboy nerdb...@gmail.com wrote:


You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts of
resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a lot of the
engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game before we start
thinking about overhauling things to change it.
On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:


I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
missions involving more players and more bots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com

wrote:

I agree with 1nsane.

On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:


Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit.

So

we

could better experiment with this mode?
Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about

joining

servers higher than 24 slots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:


We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room

for

all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not

only

simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll

have

more

details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to

MvM:

  I

actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out

all

sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be

the

same

as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to

any

major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all

be

configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player

limit,

and the server browser will be the primary means for players to

find

those

sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting

customizations

be?

  What will the standard tags be used that we request server

operators

to

set in order to help players find the modifications they want or

avoid

the

ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we

expect

you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6

would

be

detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be

off

and

the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an

extreme

example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an

there

are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without

totally

breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
operator will start out with the server configured relatively

vanilla,

and

then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and

try

to

make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than

assuming

the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than

six

players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission

decides

the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have

purposefully

made

it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot

easier

than

creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six

players,

with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the

steamgroup

only,

like in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life

dedicated

Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch.

The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill an

empty

slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning number of 
mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old performance, both 
server and client.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 12:34 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Things go unstable when there are more than 33 slots. Also there are engine 
restrictions that cannot be raised just like that. One thing is that entity 
limit of 2047. When one more is created in-game, crash happens.

-ics

14.8.2012 22:24, Nomaan Ahmad kirjoitti:
 I dont think anyone is acting like its easy... Servers can already 
 have more than 33 slots, its just that the tf2 client doesn't allow 
 players to get on servers with more than 33 slots.

 On 14 August 2012 20:19, Nerdboy nerdb...@gmail.com wrote:

 You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts 
 of resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a 
 lot of the engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game 
 before we start thinking about overhauling things to change it.
 On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting 
 missions involving more players and more bots.

 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com
 wrote:
 I agree with 1nsane.

 On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:

 Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit.
 So
 we
 could better experiment with this mode?
 Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about
 joining
 servers higher than 24 slots.

 On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
 fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:

 We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

 You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make 
 room
 for
 all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not
 only
 simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll
 have
 more
 details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

 Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to
 MvM:
   I
 actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

 I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying 
 out
 all
 sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be
 the
 same
 as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in 
 to
 any
 major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will 
 all
 be
 configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player
 limit,
 and the server browser will be the primary means for players to
 find
 those
 sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting
 customizations
 be?
   What will the standard tags be used that we request server
 operators
 to
 set in order to help players find the modifications they want or
 avoid
 the
 ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something 
 we
 expect
 you guys and your players to figure out.

 I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6
 would
 be
 detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would 
 be
 off
 and
 the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an
 extreme
 example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending 
 an
 there
 are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without
 totally
 breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart 
 server operator will start out with the server configured 
 relatively
 vanilla,
 and
 then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and
 try
 to
 make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than
 assuming
 the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will 
 automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more 
 than
 six
 players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission
 decides
 the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have
 purposefully
 made
 it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot
 easier
 than
 creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six
 players,
 with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

 - Fletch

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

 Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the
 steamgroup
 only,
 like in L4D2?

 Saint K.

 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [ 
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [ 
 fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
 Sent: 14

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread ics


Yes but as Fletcher noted, it comes down eventually to performance.

-ics

14.8.2012 23:48, Dr. McKay kirjoitti:

CS:S runs on the same engine and it supports 65 (or something along those 
lines, I know nothing about CS:S) players. Just throwing that out there.

  
Dr. McKay

http://www.doctormckay.com

On Aug 14, 2012, at 3:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote:


Things go unstable when there are more than 33 slots. Also there are engine 
restrictions that cannot be raised just like that. One thing is that entity 
limit of 2047. When one more is created in-game, crash happens.

-ics

14.8.2012 22:24, Nomaan Ahmad kirjoitti:

I dont think anyone is acting like its easy... Servers can already have
more than 33 slots, its just that the tf2 client doesn't allow players to
get on servers with more than 33 slots.

On 14 August 2012 20:19, Nerdboy nerdb...@gmail.com wrote:


You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts of
resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a lot of the
engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game before we start
thinking about overhauling things to change it.
On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, Ryan Stecker voidedwea...@gmail.com wrote:


I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting
missions involving more players and more bots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com

wrote:

I agree with 1nsane.

On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote:


Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit.

So

we

could better experiment with this mode?
Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about

joining

servers higher than 24 slots.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn
fletch...@valvesoftware.comwrote:


We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow.

You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make room

for

all the bots).  That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not

only

simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well.  We'll

have

more

details on the recommended settings tomorrow.

Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to

MvM:

  I

actually don't think we have worked that out yet.

I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying out

all

sorts of things.  Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be

the

same

as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in to

any

major deviations from the vanilla experience.  Our servers will all

be

configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player

limit,

and the server browser will be the primary means for players to

find

those

sorts of customizations.  What will the most interesting

customizations

be?

  What will the standard tags be used that we request server

operators

to

set in order to help players find the modifications they want or

avoid

the

ones they don't like?  We can't know that yet.  That's something we

expect

you guys and your players to figure out.

I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6

would

be

detrimental the experience.  There ratio of humans to bots would be

off

and

the human defending team would not have enough challenge.  (As an

extreme

example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending an

there

are no bots.)  Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without

totally

breaking the game is speculation of course.  I think a smart server
operator will start out with the server configured relatively

vanilla,

and

then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and

try

to

make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than

assuming

the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will
automatically apply to this mode.  A fun co-op mode with more than

six

players is likely to require entirely new missions.  (The mission

decides

the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.)  We have

purposefully

made

it easy for players to create their own missions.  (It's a lot

easier

than

creating a whole new map!)  But if you play with more than six

players,

with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K.
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the

steamgroup

only,

like in L4D2?

Saint K.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [
fletch...@valvesoftware.com]
Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life

dedicated

Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: Re: [hlds] TF

Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread dan


On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning number of 
mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old performance, both 
server and client.


I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that 
adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.


You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes, 
maps and so on.


In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping 
have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even 
with 24 players on a server)

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

What do you mean by rubbish to play? CPUs have gotten more powerful over
the years too. If some is running on tf2's minimum requirement I think they
should upgrade in order to play on bigger servers. Same goes to server
operators, they need to host their games it on high end servers if they
want more slots.

On 14 August 2012 22:04, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

 On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

 I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning
 number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old
 performance, both server and client.


 I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that
 adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

 You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes,
 maps and so on.

 In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping
 have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even with
 24 players on a server)
 --
 Dan


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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Doctor McKay

Note that more players in-game at one time isn't the only reason more slots 
would be nice. Maybe adding more robots would be interesting, too?




Dr. McKay
http://www.doctormckay.com

-Original Message- 
From: dan

Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:
I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning 
number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old 
performance, both server and client.


I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that
adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes,
maps and so on.

In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping
have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even
with 24 players on a server)
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

I think he was referring to game balance being broken on  24 player 
games.


On 14.08.2012 14:19, Nomaan Ahmad wrote:
What do you mean by rubbish to play? CPUs have gotten more powerful 
over
the years too. If some is running on tf2's minimum requirement I 
think they
should upgrade in order to play on bigger servers. Same goes to 
server
operators, they need to host their games it on high end servers if 
they

want more slots.

On 14 August 2012 22:04, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:


On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count 
(meaning
number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain 
old

performance, both server and client.



I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem 
that

adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon 
attributes,

maps and so on.

In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and 
sniping
have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even 
with

24 players on a server)
--
Dan



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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Some servers ops will know how to make it balanced... class limiting is one
of them.

On 14 August 2012 22:33, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:

 I think he was referring to game balance being broken on  24 player games.


 On 14.08.2012 14:19, Nomaan Ahmad wrote:

 What do you mean by rubbish to play? CPUs have gotten more powerful over
 the years too. If some is running on tf2's minimum requirement I think
 they
 should upgrade in order to play on bigger servers. Same goes to server
 operators, they need to host their games it on high end servers if they
 want more slots.

 On 14 August 2012 22:04, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

  On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

  I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning
 number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old
 performance, both server and client.


 I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that
 adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

 You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes,
 maps and so on.

 In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping
 have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even with
 24 players on a server)
 --
 Dan



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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread DontWannaName!

Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the same
community server?

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Nomaan Ahmad n0man@gmail.com wrote:

Some servers ops will know how to make it balanced... class limiting is one
of them.

On 14 August 2012 22:33, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:

I think he was referring to game balance being broken on 24 player games.

On 14.08.2012 14:19, Nomaan Ahmad wrote:

What do you mean by rubbish to play? CPUs have gotten more powerful over
the years too. If some is running on tf2's minimum requirement I think
they
should upgrade in order to play on bigger servers. Same goes to server
operators, they need to host their games it on high end servers if they
want more slots.

On 14 August 2012 22:04, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning
number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old
performance, both server and client.

I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that
adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes,
maps and so on.

In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping
have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even with
24 players on a server)
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said 
earlier that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  
Hopefully it will be added down the line though.


On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:

Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the
same community server?

Sent from my iPhone 4




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread DontWannaName!

Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? Cvar?

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:

 If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said earlier 
 that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  Hopefully it will 
 be added down the line though.
 
 On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:
 Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the
 same community server?
 
 Sent from my iPhone 4
 
 
 
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread 1nsane

Don't necessarily need that. The biggest focus here should be on having
bigger co-op games. Like what was done to Left 4 Dead/2 when a number of
people thought 4 players co-op was just not enough.

Limit/leave the TF2 game client support at 33 humans, but allow the server
to have more players (bots). This way no old gamemodes/maps need re
balancing. You won't be seeing 40+ player 2fort matches. And so custom maps
and or modes would then be made by the community to support higher
player/bot counts.

Just some ideas.

This could be something to experiment with and see what works with the new
game mode. We don't need to drag old maps/gamemodes into this, if that's
causing issues. Just some extra unofficial support to tinker with :P.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:04 PM, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

On 14/08/2012 21:15, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning
number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old
performance, both server and client.

I'd say by far the biggest challenge would be solving the problem that
adding more players makes the game complete rubbish to play.

You'd need a complete redesign of most of the game - weapon attributes,
maps and so on.

In TF2's case 24 is pushing it (although I suppose trading and sniping
have both been ways Valve have designed TF2 to get 9v9 or less, even with
24 players on a server)
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Not sure about lobbies, but he mentioned you can still join from the 
server browser.


On 14.08.2012 14:57, DontWannaName! wrote:
Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? 
Cvar?


Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith 
ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:


If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said 
earlier that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  
Hopefully it will be added down the line though.


On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:

Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the
same community server?

Sent from my iPhone 4




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

What is the use case for that?  Friends could just join the server directly, 
there doesn't seem to be a need to form a party at all.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName!
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:57 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Cc: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? Cvar?

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:

 If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said earlier 
 that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  Hopefully it will 
 be added down the line though.

 On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:
 Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the 
 same community server?

 Sent from my iPhone 4

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

This use case I think would be solved by adding steam group lobby 
functionality.  It is going to suck initially for communities to set up 
a server for this and have it immediately fill with random players, 
locking out community players who want to try it out.


On 14.08.2012 15:19, Fletcher Dunn wrote:

What is the use case for that?  Friends could just join the server
directly, there doesn't seem to be a need to form a party at all.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of
DontWannaName!
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:57 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Cc: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? 
Cvar?


Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith 
ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:


If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said 
earlier that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  
Hopefully it will be added down the line though.


On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:

Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the
same community server?

Sent from my iPhone 4




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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread DontWannaName!

Choosing the map or maybe chatting for example before starting a game?

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 3:19 PM, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 What is the use case for that?  Friends could just join the server directly, 
 there doesn't seem to be a need to form a party at all.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName!
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:57 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 Cc: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions
 
 Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? Cvar?
 
 Sent from my iPhone 4
 
 On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:
 
 If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said earlier 
 that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  Hopefully it will 
 be added down the line though.
 
 On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:
 Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the 
 same community server?
 
 Sent from my iPhone 4
 
 
 
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 please visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread gameadmin

A lobby can specify the mission whereas manually joining leaves you such with 
what's there.

Also, steam community-based access control would be a lot less hassle than 
passwords

Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

What is the use case for that? Friends could just join the server directly, 
there doesn't seem to be a need to form a party at all.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName!
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:57 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Cc: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

Is there any way to point the lobby to a specific server at all? Cvar?

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Russell Smith ve...@tinylittlerobots.us wrote:

 If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said earlier 
 that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update. Hopefully it will 
 be added down the line though.
 
 On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:
 Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the 
 same community server?
 
 Sent from my iPhone 4
 
 
 
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread dan


On 14/08/2012 22:40, Nomaan Ahmad wrote:

Some servers ops will know how to make it balanced... class limiting is one
of them.


No they don't. Class limiting is a flawed approach. It suggests that if 
you assign forced roles that the game will be good. It won't be. It just 
means the 2 or 3 engineers you have will be halfwits and the one guy 
that can play engineer has to watch these halfwits in frustration. The 
only time highlander and class limits works is when you have organised 
teams and matches and then you can say Bill, you be the medic...John, 
you play engineer and so on.


Yes it sucks if you have 5 spies and 5 snipers on a team, but the truth 
is, forcing these guys to play a different class won't help. It's far 
better to let people play what class they want and use that data to see 
they are all buffoons. They'll see it when they lose and you'll see it 
when you join so you can, if you want, just hit 'change server' and find 
a round that will be better.


Of course, from a server admin point of view the idea the best way to 
find a good round is to hit 'change server' isn't that appealing, hence 
the flawed attempts to try and mess things around instead.


You can't turn a buffoon into a good player by making him play a 
different class, nor a team of buffoons into a good team using the same 
method.


As I said in another post, generally speaking, increasing the number of 
players, reducing the number of shots you need to kill or removing the 
penalty for death are all designed to hide differences in skill between 
players and teams.


Or in other words, people play on 32 man, instant spawn servers (and 
Robin runs around with his OP rocket launcher or people pay saigns for 
silly weapons and abilities) because it helps hide the fact they suck.


With 12v12 with respawn timers (and things like nocrit) you will see 
which players on the server can play better than the others and which 
team is better - especially if both teams are motivated towards the 
objective.


Their skill will be more evident (although as the comp players will tell 
you, 6v6 is better than 12v12 for that) But,  unfortunately, it will 
generally result in average and below players spending a lot of time 
spectating and losing rounds.


Which obviously for them is a worse experience than having a 3 hour 
round that no one wins (or that one team can trivially win because there 
are some trivial ways to win with instant spawn, especially when you 
have weapons like the dead ringer)


It's a lot easier to configure a server badly than it is to get better 
at playing it too.
So it's no real surprise there's a player base happy to play on servers 
configured this way.


--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread staff

For the love of god please let us protect our sv_steamgroup id from being
added to everyone elses steamgroup, l4d2 is rife with it!, there has always
been a simple solution to this and requested several times yet no response

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Russell
Smith
Sent: 14 August 2012 22:54
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

If you mean steam group servers like Left 4 Dead has, Fletcher said earlier
that this functionality wouldn't be in tomorrow's update.  
Hopefully it will be added down the line though.

On 14.08.2012 14:46, DontWannaName! wrote:
 Can we do reserved lobbies like with keys? So all friends go to the 
 same community server?

 Sent from my iPhone 4



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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions

2012-08-14 Thread Ross Bemrose

Special game modes sometimes benefit from class limits (such as Vs. 
Saxton Hale limiting Engineers and Spies), but I agree that a standard 
game doesn't benefit from it.


On 8/14/2012 6:33 PM, dan wrote:

On 14/08/2012 22:40, Nomaan Ahmad wrote:
Some servers ops will know how to make it balanced... class limiting 
is one

of them.


No they don't. Class limiting is a flawed approach. It suggests that 
if you assign forced roles that the game will be good. It won't be. It 
just means the 2 or 3 engineers you have will be halfwits and the one 
guy that can play engineer has to watch these halfwits in frustration. 
The only time highlander and class limits works is when you have 
organised teams and matches and then you can say Bill, you be the 
medic...John, you play engineer and so on.


Yes it sucks if you have 5 spies and 5 snipers on a team, but the 
truth is, forcing these guys to play a different class won't help. 
It's far better to let people play what class they want and use that 
data to see they are all buffoons. They'll see it when they lose and 
you'll see it when you join so you can, if you want, just hit 'change 
server' and find a round that will be better.


Of course, from a server admin point of view the idea the best way to 
find a good round is to hit 'change server' isn't that appealing, 
hence the flawed attempts to try and mess things around instead.


You can't turn a buffoon into a good player by making him play a 
different class, nor a team of buffoons into a good team using the 
same method.


As I said in another post, generally speaking, increasing the number 
of players, reducing the number of shots you need to kill or removing 
the penalty for death are all designed to hide differences in skill 
between players and teams.


Or in other words, people play on 32 man, instant spawn servers (and 
Robin runs around with his OP rocket launcher or people pay saigns for 
silly weapons and abilities) because it helps hide the fact they suck.


With 12v12 with respawn timers (and things like nocrit) you will see 
which players on the server can play better than the others and which 
team is better - especially if both teams are motivated towards the 
objective.


Their skill will be more evident (although as the comp players will 
tell you, 6v6 is better than 12v12 for that) But, unfortunately, it 
will generally result in average and below players spending a lot of 
time spectating and losing rounds.


Which obviously for them is a worse experience than having a 3 hour 
round that no one wins (or that one team can trivially win because 
there are some trivial ways to win with instant spawn, especially when 
you have weapons like the dead ringer)


It's a lot easier to configure a server badly than it is to get better 
at playing it too.
So it's no real surprise there's a player base happy to play on 
servers configured this way.





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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions