Re: [jug-discussion] September 8 meeting -- Taking the Plunge with IntelliJ
William started it! Gmail made it worse by threading it in. I'd say go ahead and turn off this list (with an autoresponder rejection email pointing to the new one if you can), people are gonna keep posting to it by accident... On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Warner Onstine warn...@gmail.com wrote: this list is no longer in use. please use tucson-...@googlegroups.com On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:27 AM, nlesieckindlesie...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, sorry I can't be there. VMS and EBlox luminaries in the same room. :) Nick On Aug 30, 2009, at 5:30 PM, William H. Mitchell wrote: A regular activity at No Fluff Just Stuff symposiums is a show of hands poll for who's using what tools and technologies. When the topic turns to IDEs, and the moderator asks, IntelliJ?, most of the symposium speakers raise their hands, along with a few in the audience. Then on Eclipse? just about everybody in the audience raises their hand. Then somebody shouts, Who'd pay for Eclipse?, and just about every hand goes down! Some liken the Eclipse vs. IntelliJ question to frontier vs. walled garden. Things are very nice inside the garden but sometimes you find yourself peeking over the wall at interesting new things that the gardener hasn't had time for yet. Others liken choosing a tool just because it's free to being in an arranged marriage. Or maybe the proposition is benevolent dictatorship vs. anarchy. Andy Barton has spent a lot of time on the J2EE frontier but recently decided to experience life in the IntelliJ garden. In this talk, Andy will demonstrate moving an Eclipse project to IntelliJ Idea and will discuss the productivity benefits IntelliJ offers over Eclipse. About the speaker: Andrew Barton is the technical director of eBlox, Inc. He has been developing web application solutions in Java for more than 10 years. When and Where: Tuesday, September 8, at the offices of Video Monitoring Services (VMS), 5151 E. Broadway Blvd Suite 450, Tucson, AZ. (Be sure to sign in at the desk on the first floor.) Meet and greet at 6:30; the presentation starts at 7:00pm. Drinks of all sorts at On the Border (5205 E. Broadway) at 8:45 or so. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] friendly reminder
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Warner Onstinewarn...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pulling the plug on the site (and this list) in a little over a week, please sign up over at http://groups.google.com/group/tucson-jug. Please join (if you want to keep up with all the goings on and meetings here in town). Can we set up an autoresponder or something which contains a reference to the new list? Doesn't google groups or google sites let you set up address/domain aliases? -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] 502 status
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Andrew Lenardsandrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote: In other news I want to move the JUG site from Confluence. We have two options: 1) I can create a quick and dirty WordPress site for it on my new box 2) We can just bite the bullet and move it to a Google Group and add pages there with a redirect from tucson-jug.org to there Whichever is easier - personally. I think that would mean #2 Yep, Google Groups aren't perfect but they are pretty close to zero maintenance and provide list/forum/web space/file uploads. I run/admin several groups. Usually it is fine to just trust anyone who is known/interested/responsible help with admin/maintenence. Spammers show up eventually, then you just turn on moderate first post, other than that pretty much no hassles for the mailing list. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] Hudson?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Andrew Lenards andrew.lena...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone using Hudson (it's an extensible continuous integration engine)? Has anyone played with it? I've heard people like it, but I personally prefer something more lightweight and easily hackable, and in my preferred language - so I use CruiseControl.rb. However, Hudson is mature, open source and has a lot of plugin support, so it is probably a good choice, especially for a java shop. I'll also use this opportunity to prompte my project which lets you easily set up a new CI box (using ccrb, of course) by running only two simple scripts: http://github.com/thewoolleyman/cinabox I even made a screencast :) http://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.pivotallabs.com/99/original/cinabox_screencast.mov -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] Hudson?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Todd Ellermann todde...@yahoo.com wrote: After spending a week fighting with cruisecontrol I switched to hudson and haven't looked back. Just to be clear, you mean CruiseControl JAVA, not CruiseControl.rb (in ruby), correct? If so, I agree with you, CC java sucks big ones... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
[jug-discussion] A Brief, Incomplete, and Mostly Wrong History of Programming Languages
This is really funny: http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] Next meeting, Feb 10
http://www.dbunit.org/ DbUnit is a JUnit extension (also usable with Ant) targeted at database-driven projects that, among other things, puts your database into a known state between test runs. This is an excellent way to avoid the myriad of problems that can occur when one test case corrupts the database and causes subsequent tests to fail or exacerbate the damage. This sounds very similar to Rails fixtures (part of ActiveRecord). Before every test, it truncates all the tables and uses YAML files to load specific scenarios into the database. Usually you leverage transactions so that everything runs in a single transaction, and you just roll back the transaction to place the DB back in the original (empty) state and ready for the next test. Many people use Ruby to test apps written in other languages - I wonder if this would be another useful situation for this - use Ruby/Rspec/Fixtures to drive high-level functional tests of stored-procedure logic. Also, Fixtures (which is the general pattern used by dbunit - specify scenario data in XML/YAML) have gotten a bad reputation in the Rails community - because they are a huge pain in the ass to maintain over time as your schema changes. Many people prefer to go with an Object-Mother pattern, where you define a domain-specific Object Mother which has a simple Domain Specific Language to easily create test objects/data and load them into the database (again, DSL's like this are very clean and easy to write in Ruby by leveraging blocks/lambdas). E.g.: include ObjectMother create_widget(:name = 'foo) do create_subwidget(:size = 10) do create_subsubwidget # no block, uses default values end end # now these records and data (including default values for non-specified fields) exist in your database in tables widget, subwidget, and subsubwidget Way prettier and more maintainable than XML or even YAML Also, keep in mind we also leverage ActiveRecord migrations, so we never have to manually manage the DDL/schema - just run rake db:migrate and all pending schema changes are automatically applied - and can be rolled back to any specified version as well (although this obviously takes much more care and attention for destructive rollbacks). Also, there are Oracle adapters for ActiveRecord... Finally, sorry I can't make this preso, I've got other commitments :( Good luck Rene... -- Chad On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:14 AM, TR tr...@pobox.com wrote: All Rene will be presenting on using dbUnit testing with stored procedures. The presentation goes through several examples and an interactive exercise. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] Unsolicited - Re: help me
Yes. You know what happens if you don't keep your Chias DRY:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chia_pet.jpg
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kit Plummer kitplum...@gmail.com wrote:
Apply DRY principles first.
On Jan 28, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Christopher Sharp wrote:
Out of the blue and completely unsolicited from a person I have never
heard of before, I received the following request below.
I don't at the moment have the time to answer, but if anybody else has, I
would be grateful to know.
Christopher
-Original Message-
From: chinh nguyen chinh2...@gmail.com
To: cmshar...@aol.com
Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 6:33 pm
Subject: help me
i'm doing my work about find X element in N random element
i have the code.
private void chia1()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 0; i cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox1.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia2()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = cl.n / 100; i 20 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox3.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia3()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 20 * cl.n / 100; i 30 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox5.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia4()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 30 * cl.n / 100; i 40 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox6.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia5()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 40 * cl.n / 100; i 50 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox7.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia6()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 50 * cl.n / 100; i 60 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox8.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia7()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 60 * cl.n / 100; i 70 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox9.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia8()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 70 * cl.n / 100; i 80 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox10.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia9()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 80 * cl.n / 100; i 90 * cl.n / 100; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox11.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
private void chia10()
{
Random rand = new Random();
for (i = 90 * cl.n / 100; i cl.n; i++)
{
m[i] = rand.Next(99);
textBox12.Text += + m[i].ToString();
cl.m1[i] = m[i];
}
}
can you help me optimize it.
thanks.
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Re: [jug-discussion] Meeting tonight, Command line tools Programmers should know.
I'm in SF this week, but if you have any materials I'd love to see them posted. This sounds like a great presentation. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 7:45 AM, TR tr...@pobox.com wrote: All See you tonight! TR - To unsubscribe, e-mail: jug-discussion-unsubscr...@tucson-jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: jug-discussion-h...@tucson-jug.org
Re: [jug-discussion] Java is dead... Here we go again....
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Richard Hightower [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ha. I am no troll. This is a Java list after all. I am quite un-trollish in saying that Java is not dead on a Java list and using evidence to support my assertion of the un-deadness of Java. Even though the list and group is still a JUG, there have been (at least a couple I remember) of in-person meetings where people have (unofficially?) agreed that non-Java stuff was fair game. Plus, JRuby, as a Sun-developed dynamic language for the Java Virtual Machine, is very on topic for a Java group. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Java is dead... Here we go again....
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Richard Hightower [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JRuby is cool. If I were going to use Ruby, it would most likely be Jruby. You've [still] conveniently ignored my point about JRuby being able to take advantage of both the Java and Ruby ecosystems [as opposed to Groovy]. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Feast at what time?
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what time do we meet at Feast on Tuesday? Unfortunately, I'll miss this. I'll be in San Francisco, writing Ruby ;) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Java is dead... Here we go again....
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Kit Plummer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been my overwhelming experience that software engineers are very bad (for whatever reasons) at recognizing the hammer they are holding isn't the right one. I'd rather have a Golden Hammer than a Golden Salami... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Java is dead... Here we go again....
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Richard Hightower [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just not such a big fan of the Java is dead stuff. Yes, but that part was essential to my goal of getting an interesting thread going on this mailing list ;) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] JRuby vs. Groovy (was: Any News on the Holiday Party?)
Here's the latest performance numbers on JRuby: http://antoniocangiano.com/2008/12/09/the-great-ruby-shootout-december-2008/ Summary - JRuby is doing very well; came in second after Ruby 1.9; and compatibility is good and getting better all the time. Ok, troll time: My opinion - definitely try JRuby over Groovy. You get all the benefits of the Java ecosystem: native calls to java libraries, JVM execution, JIT compilation, packaging, war/ear-based deployment, etc, etc. Most importantly, however, you get a language that was designed to make people happy. Most Rubyists - especially those with experience in other languages - agree it achieves this goal well. As for Groovy, I still say it is an attempt to make a static language (Java) appear dynamic. They've done a decent job, but when you really compare it to using native Ruby, the warts and sharp edges poke through. The only argument I see in favor of Groovy is integration with the Java ecosystem, which JRuby effectively negates. Conversely, all language or syntax preference or prejudice aside, the Ruby ecosystem is also very rich (rubygems and github), and you cannot take advantage of this with Groovy. Why not be able to choose from the best of both worlds? Java is dead, long live the JVM. JRuby FTW in the enterprise. -- Chad On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Todd Ellermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One more side note. JRuby runs on the JVM as well, and for a while was out performing the native Ruby interpreters. Not sure if that is still true. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] JRuby vs. Groovy (was: Any News on the Holiday Party?)
It was mentioned in the previous thread that this is not a web app. As for JRuby vs. pure Ruby. However, this is the JUG list, and the question on JRuby performance was my chance to be a troll with a point, especially since there's been Groovy vs. Ruby debates on here before ;) Depending on the target deployment environment (windows? lots of users? Intranet?) JRuby might still be a better choice, since the JVM is ubiquitous (and native Ruby on Windows still sucks). -- Chad PS: Don't forget the JOrganic JJelly with a side of JJuice... On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:59 PM, nlesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I was from-scratching a website, I'd definitely look at JRuby on JRails. With JPeanut sauce on my JTofu. Nick On Dec 9, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Here's the latest performance numbers on JRuby: http://antoniocangiano.com/2008/12/09/the-great-ruby-shootout-december-2008/ Summary - JRuby is doing very well; came in second after Ruby 1.9; and compatibility is good and getting better all the time. Ok, troll time: My opinion - definitely try JRuby over Groovy. You get all the benefits of the Java ecosystem: native calls to java libraries, JVM execution, JIT compilation, packaging, war/ear-based deployment, etc, etc. Most importantly, however, you get a language that was designed to make people happy. Most Rubyists - especially those with experience in other languages - agree it achieves this goal well. As for Groovy, I still say it is an attempt to make a static language (Java) appear dynamic. They've done a decent job, but when you really compare it to using native Ruby, the warts and sharp edges poke through. The only argument I see in favor of Groovy is integration with the Java ecosystem, which JRuby effectively negates. Conversely, all language or syntax preference or prejudice aside, the Ruby ecosystem is also very rich (rubygems and github), and you cannot take advantage of this with Groovy. Why not be able to choose from the best of both worlds? Java is dead, long live the JVM. JRuby FTW in the enterprise. -- Chad On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Todd Ellermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One more side note. JRuby runs on the JVM as well, and for a while was out performing the native Ruby interpreters. Not sure if that is still true. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Since Chad Mentioned Guice
There was a talk by Jamis Buck (a big java DI guy) at RubyConf where he claimed DI was unnecessary in Ruby or other dynamic languages. That's me heckling him at the end. Essence of my comments: I agree that DI *frameworks* are unnecessary, but I still think the Registry pattern is a good way to architect any application. It drives loose coupling and high cohesion - which is a good thing, especially for developers who don't know what those are or why they are good. I think many Rubyists overuse mixins and underuse basic OO, which leads to more complex and more confusing code in general, and more monkeypatching and brittleness than necessary. A bunch of small dead simple objects is easier to understand, debug, extend, and fix. -- Chad On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:32 PM, nlesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Or did he?) My article on Google's Guice, the latest, greatest* DI framework: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-guice.html (* your view may vary.) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Java is dead... Here we go again....
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Richard Hightower [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For now I will stick to Java and Groovy with glee in my heart that I can get paid for something that I love to do. Damn, didn't mean for the trollfest to turn ugly. But it's fun to watch. Anyway, Rick, a few points: 1. I get paid to write Ruby, and I enjoy it more than I ever enjoyed writing Java. But, as Kit said, I also work with a lot of really cool, REALLY smart people. I worked with some really cool smart people when I was doing Java, but just a few of them, not a LOT of them. Smartness was the exception rather than the rule in standard java developers, in my experience. In Ruby it seems to be the opposite. I'm a biased troll, though... 2. I could care less what most developers in the world write (mostly outsourced/offshore/corporate maintenance drones I bet, but I can't back this up...). This is the nature of the adoption curve. 3. You've conveniently ignored my point about JRuby being able to take advantage of both the Java and Ruby ecosystems. Ruby has tons of sweet, cutting-edge, actively maintained, frequently-released, supremely hackable open source tools, libraries, and frameworks, which is facilitated by things like RubyGems and widespread GitHub adoption. When those don't work for you for some reason, JRuby lets you plug in any proven, performant, scalable Java library. As I said, language preference and market share aside, don't you agree this is a compelling advantage of JRuby? Remember, I love you all. I just love to troll too :) -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Spam
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Christopher Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I opened what I thought was a message from this group, and found instead spam on Viagra and other similar products. It was in the form of an image. I didn't get it. Do you use Gmail? If not, consider it...
Re: [jug-discussion] Next week's meeting
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:32 PM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've often thought it would be interesting to start meetings with a quick circle around the room to give people a chance to seek real-time advice on issues they currently face and/or pass along useful things they've recently come across. Yes. If you add the requirement to be standing up, hold questions until the end, and observe a time limit, you have lightning talks ;)
Re: [jug-discussion] No longer at Weymouth Design
can we remove this address from the list, then? On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Mark at Weymouth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To whom it may concern, Mark is no longer with Weymouth Design. Please contact Tom Kraft at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you need assistance. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] No longer at Weymouth Design
Great, thanks William. If it were a Google Group, I'd volunteer to co-own, but anything else is above my threshold of time/effort investment. Don't want to know any more passwords ;) On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:42 PM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A while back Warner mentioned passing along the duties he's been so good to do for so many years. I'd be happy to pick up with mailing list maintenance. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] How can I get the PID of a process started by ant java fork=true ...?
Hey, I have a java question :) I have an Ant target (the Jsunit start_server target, actually) which starts a java process using the java fork=true ... Ant target. How can I grab the PID for this process, or of the parent Ant process? Is the PID hidden by the JVM sandbox security, and my only option is to grep the output of ps from the process invoking Ant? Thanks, -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Re: How can I get the PID of a process started by ant java fork=true ...?
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Chad Woolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I grab the PID for this process, or of the parent Ant process? Is the PID hidden by the JVM sandbox security, and my only option is to grep the output of ps from the process invoking Ant? Hmm, here is a hack which works on unix shell, which is probably good enough for me, even though I'll probably have to figure out the inheritence: http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1536884 $$ ftw... Thx, -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Radio Buttons
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Tim Worden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You said that in IRC you put the code in a paste bin and then send a link, how do I do this or where can I find out more about this. http://gist.github.com/ This is cooler than all the other pastie solutions because you can edit and fork them. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Radio Buttons
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 12:01 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I count Tom as a good friend and valued colleague but I've got to respectfully disagree with him on this point. I don't see a charter on the JUG website but for History, I see this: The Tucson Java Users Group was established to provide information about Java and Java related technologies to its members, to facilitate contacts between its members and to promote the use of Java technology in Tucson, Arizona. That seems to allow questions from students, whether on homework assignments or not, or very basic questions from anybody. Perhaps Tim's instructor and TA (if any) are off-line for this holiday weekend, and Tim wants to keep moving. I agree, with conditions. You can post for help to the list, if you follow these rules of etiquette: 1. Make an effort to google and find a solution yourself, and provide links to what you found, and a reasoned explanation of what you have tried, and why you are still confused. This is the most important step. Often, the process of documenting why you are confused, and describing why your google results have failed you, will cause you to find the solution yourself. I can't count how many times I've done this myself. If you are still confused, and can clearly describe why you are confused, and can give examples of how google has failed you, then by all means, post and ask for help. That's a perfect use of this list, in my opinion. 2. Use a pastie solution like http://gist.github.com for your code samples - don't paste inline 3. Keep the same message subject for the entire thread (so people can use Mute in Gmail if they don't like it, or easily archive the entire thread at once) If you follow these rules, and Tom or anyone else still doesn't like these messages, then they can set up a filter in their mail program to ignore all posts from you. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] JUG Talk Topics Ideas
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 3:06 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I'd be happy to see a good demo of TextMate, too! :) Hehe. Actually, I think textmate sucks pretty hard in its own ways - such as no directory-tree-specific search (a horribly glaring omission). I'll often have to fall back to grep or Idea if I need to do some real searching to filter a lot of hits. Also, I'm a lowest-common-denominator guy, especially since I switch back and forth so much (vi on terminals, textmate on my own, usually Idea at work), and I can't remember things as well as I used to. For example, command-home shift-downarrow command-x is my preferred way of moving lines around - I don't bother with the move-block shortcut (which is useless in Textmate anyway because it LEAVES YOUR CURSOR ON THE OLD LINE!). I like to think that I think more than I edit, so it's OK if I don't know all the shortcuts ;) Anyway, maybe we can think of structuring the Nugs - gonna keep dissin' that J ;) - to allow 5 minute lightning talks like this in addition to the normal topic. Maybe do them first, and have a hard stop - 5 mins demo and 5 mins questions, then move on. That also works good for me so I don't have to stress if I commit and can't show up after all (like this month I was gonna come but I had to play drums for my church at the last minute). -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] JUG Talk Topics Ideas
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:23 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just like last year, a lunch-time show of hands at NFJS for Who uses Eclipse? seemed to raise just about every hand in the room. And, just like last year, a follow-up from Neal Ford -- Who'd still use Eclipse if they had to pay $400 for it? -- made every one of those hands disappear.(*) I use IntelliJ Idea and TextMate mainly now. I gotta say, I think eclipse sucks next to Idea. If you are into a full-blown IDE (in other words, don't like textmate/VIM/Emacs/etc), intelliJ is the best one. ANd I gotta say, if you are a software developer and cannot afford top spend $400 to get a top-of-the-line tool that you will use every day of your professional life, then you should start looking for a different job :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Git question
Here is the GitHub guide on how to delete a remote branch: http://github.com/guides/remove-a-remote-branch That guide, and the man page for git push, give me absolutely no clue on why or how this syntax works. Can someone explain or give me a link? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Google's Wire Format Goes Open Source
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:08 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I took a look at that link but the documentation seems incomplete -- I didn't see anything about specifying the number of stop bits. What was it Brian said about Java being the new Assembly? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Thanks for the presentation Brian!
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Bashar Abdul
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If I got your questions right:
Suppose you have this class:
class Article{
String author
boolean published
}
To get all the articles published by Bob:
def articles = Article.findAllByAuthor(Bob)AndPublished(True)
Not really. I still want all bob.articles to return ALL of bob's
articles, but bob.articles.published should return only his
published articles.
And, to take it a step further than a simple property and illustrate
ActiveRecord's ability to define any method, I would also like a
about_paris_hilton method defined on the articles association, so I
could say bob.articles.about_paris_hilton
In ActiveRecord, this would look something like this (simple and
probably somewhat inaccurate, I'm no ActiveRecord guru):
class Person ActiveRecord::Base
has_many articles do
def published
...
end
def about_paris_hilton
proxy_target.select { |article| article.about_paris_hilton? }
end
end
end
With the new named_scope feature (contributed to Rails by one of my
colleagues), this is even easier: http://railscasts.com/episodes/108
Anyway, the point is that the associations themselves are objects
which you can extend with methods and functionality. You don't have
to implement these helper methods directly on the model class. This
allows you to make a very expressive and english-like API for your
model layer.
-- Chad
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Re: [jug-discussion] Thanks for the presentation Brian!
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Bashar Abdul
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
class Person {
String name
def hasMany = [articles:Article]
}
You can use Hibernate's Criteria Builder:
def c = Person.createCriteria()
def results = c.list{
articles{
like('content','Paris Hilton')
}
}
OK. If I understand, def c would be def
articles_about_paris_hilton? This is still not as nice as
ActiveRecord, I think. You are having to create custom helper methods
directly on the Model. For example, bob.articles_about_paris_hilton
vs the (more OO and messagey) bob.articles.about_paris_hilton which
leverages the (nicely decoupled and Demeterish)
Article.about_paris_hilton?
However, Brian's points about the maturity and stability of Hibernate
vs. ActiveRecord are well taken. I think it all depends on your
project. For Agile startup social networking projects, the
flexibility, readability, and speed of ActiveRecord trumps. For a
project where you really care about database integrity or ACID, you
would probably want to think about using some DSL on top of hibernate,
like GORM. I still think the GORM syntax looks like poop compared to
Ruby and ActiveRecord, though :)
-- Chad
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[jug-discussion] IntelliJ Idea (was: Some thoughts on Scala)
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.artima.com/lejava/articles/javaone_2008_dmitry_jemerov.html I have to admit, Idea is a very nice IDE, especially for Java. I think it blows away Eclipse/NetBeans in most areas, except price (it isn't free). At Pivotal, most of our Ruby developers use it. The Ruby support is as good as any other IDE, and any shortcomings in Ruby support vs other IDEs are outweighed by the overall maturity of Idea. However, I am finding myself less and less tolerant of huge, slow, chrome-heavy IDEs, especially since they have little or no refactoring support in dynamic languages like Ruby. Lately, I tend to use TextMate. It sucks in many ways and has numerous shortcomings, but it is FAST, has minimal chrome, allows you to easily change font sizes, and almost never freezes or crashes (unless you are doing project-wide search in a huge project). On the other hand, big IDEs take forever to start up, and frequently freeze up or crash. Sometimes, I will code in TextMate, and only pull out Idea if I need to do a power search or replace. I would like to become a VIM power user, because it is a decent, powerful, and truly cross-platform editor. However, that is a big learning curve, and I would miss my tabs and scrollwheel... -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Google's Wire Format Goes Open Source
These kids and their new-fangled protocols. XML was good enough for my grandfather, and it's good enough for me! Why, we had to make our angle brackets out of two sticks and baling wire... On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very cool Nick, thanks for sharing! -warner On Jul 10, 2008, at 3:15 PM, nlesiecki wrote: This is pretty cool: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/07/protocol-buffers-googles-data.html Protocol buffers are *the* lingua franca for RPCs, structured data storage, and just about any data sharing you can think of at Google. If you're building a distributed system and want to pass around messages in something other (faster) than Xml, you should check out protocol buffers. Nick - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book on Tapestry 4! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Thanks for the presentation Brian!
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted to send out a quick note to everyone (and Brian) thanking him for the presentation last night. Yes, I enjoyed it. Regardless of which flavor we prefer, I think that having all this momentum behind dynamic languages on the JVM is a great thing. Also, does anyone have links/examples of extending association proxies in GORM? Brian said this was possible, and I'd really like to see how it is implemented as compared to ActiveRecord. Does DataMapper have this, too? As a reminder, I mean something like defining a custom published method on the articles association, so that bob.articles.published results an array of only bob's published articles. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] git, mercurial or bazaar?
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Andrew Lenards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're forced to stay with an SVN repository - I know there is a git-svn bridge that is bi-directional. So you can pull in an svn repo, branch, work, and merge within git - then export the result back to svn. I've got links for that somewhere, but I think most of the interesting stuff will pop up in a google search. I've used git-svn some, it works. sudo aptitude install git-core git-svn. I installed via ports on mac, and I think git-core came with git-svn? Here's my delicious tags I've got so far, some stuff on git-svn there: http://del.icio.us/thewoolleyman/git Also, the peepcode video is a good intro. svn:externals seems to be the one thing that Git can't do as well as SVN. I researched it (links on delicious also, but haven't played with it). I agree with Kit, no reason to stick with SVN, I'm switching everything over as I get time. I like GitHub, and have been recommending it, but they seem to have some disturbing uptime issues (like right now)... -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] git, mercurial or bazaar?
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Executive summary of his presentation: If you're not using git, you're an idiot, even if Google hired you. Any questions?) hehe, yeah that is a funny preso. However, Linus did put a lot of thought and effort into making Git do what he wants, and do it FAST. It's nice... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Scott Segal Presentation
Which one did you finally pick, Scott? On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tom, The presentation is now available for download from the JUG Web site (front page). -warner On Jun 13, 2008, at 6:32 AM, Tom Michaud wrote: Hi Scott, I don't remember if you mentioned this in the meeting. Will the presentation will be made available for all on the TJUG wiki? Thanks, Tom Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book on Tapestry 4! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Groovy and JRuby
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Really? It's pretty similar in Groovy:
groovy [].class.methods*.name.toList()
=== [get, add, add, indexOf, clone, clear, lastIndexOf, contains, addAll,
OK, that seems to work. Can't say that would have been my first guess
though. Whats up with the *? It still not pretty, nor intuitive.
For example, look at the following train wreck resulting from playing
around in groovysh. The best part is that I end with the original,
working, expression... NOT WORKING ANYMORE! I don't even know what
groovysh is trying to tell me with the error No signature of method:
[Ljava.lang.reflect.Method;.multiply() is applicable for argument
types: (java.util.ArrayList) . Whaa? This does not meet the
Principle of Least Surprise for me. I remain - unconvinced.
chadmac:groovy-1.6-beta-1 woolley$ bin/groovysh
Groovy Shell (1.6-beta-1, JVM: 1.5.0_13)
Type 'help' or '\h' for help.
---
groovy:000 [].class.methods*.name.toList()
=== [get, add, add, indexOf, clone, clear, lastIndexOf, contains,
addAll, addAll, size, toArray, toArray, set, remove, remove, isEmpty,
trimToSize, ensureCapacity, hashCode, equals, iterator, subList,
listIterator, listIterator, toString, containsAll, removeAll,
retainAll, getClass, wait, wait, wait, notify, notifyAll]
groovy:000 []
=== []
groovy:000 [].methods
=== []
groovy:000 [].class.methods
=== [Ljava.lang.reflect.Method;@1bcd49
groovy:000 [].class.methods*
groovy:001 [].class.methods*.name
ERROR groovy.lang.MissingMethodException: No signature of method:
[Ljava.lang.reflect.Method;.multiply() is applicable for argument
types: (java.util.ArrayList) values: {[get, add, add, indexOf, clone,
clear, lastIndexOf, contains, addAll, addAll, size, toArray, toArray,
set, remove, remove, isEmpty, trimToSize, ensureCapacity, hashCode,
equals, iterator, subList, listIterator, listIterator, toString,
containsAll, removeAll, retainAll, getClass, wait, wait, wait, notify,
notifyAll]}
at groovysh_evaluate.run (groovysh_evaluate:2)
...
groovy:001 [].class.methods*.name.toList
ERROR groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: Exception evaluating
property 'toList' for java.util.ArrayList, Reason:
groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: No such property: toList for
class: java.lang.String
at groovysh_evaluate.run (groovysh_evaluate:2)
...
groovy:001 [].class.methods*.name.toList()
ERROR groovy.lang.MissingMethodException: No signature of method:
[Ljava.lang.reflect.Method;.multiply() is applicable for argument
types: (java.util.ArrayList) values: {[get, add, add, indexOf, clone,
clear, lastIndexOf, contains, addAll, addAll, size, toArray, toArray,
set, remove, remove, isEmpty, trimToSize, ensureCapacity, hashCode,
equals, iterator, subList, listIterator, listIterator, toString,
containsAll, removeAll, retainAll, getClass, wait, wait, wait, notify,
notifyAll]}
at groovysh_evaluate.run (groovysh_evaluate:3)
...
groovy:001 [].class.methods*.name.toList()
ERROR groovy.lang.MissingMethodException: No signature of method:
[Ljava.lang.reflect.Method;.multiply() is applicable for argument
types: (java.util.ArrayList) values: {[get, add, add, indexOf, clone,
clear, lastIndexOf, contains, addAll, addAll, size, toArray, toArray,
set, remove, remove, isEmpty, trimToSize, ensureCapacity, hashCode,
equals, iterator, subList, listIterator, listIterator, toString,
containsAll, removeAll, retainAll, getClass, wait, wait, wait, notify,
notifyAll]}
at groovysh_evaluate.run (groovysh_evaluate:3)
...
groovy:001 ahhh let me out of here!
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Re: [jug-discussion] Groovy and JRuby
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To partially answer your original question: I use Groovy because it is built on top of a mature and immense language platform, so I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time I sit down to code. How does JRuby not meet this requirement? It can call Java classes, and using a different (superior in my opinion) interpreted/dynamic language is not reinventing the wheel, plus Ruby predates Groovy anyway, by quite a while [1] :) -- Chad [1] http://www.levenez.com/lang/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Groovy and JRuby
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that has turned me off from Ruby in the past is the fanatical and proselytizing behavior of the community members. Instead of just setting up strawmen and snidely knocking them down, why don't you put down the Kool-aid and educate us. Hmm, other people say that Ruby has an especially nice community. I think the Ruby open source community is interesting, especially projects like Rubunius that are turning the whole ego based open source paradigm on it's head. In Rubinius for example, one accepted patch gets you full commit rights. I wrote more about this here [1]. 1) Have you actually used JRuby for any real world applications? Nope. I think JRuby is still getting the kinks worked out, but coming along very well (Runs Rails now, so I hear). The closest I got was that I tried to convert an existing production app to run on JRuby. I ran into a couple of bugs. Patched one, and reported the other one (which was fixed in the next release). After that I lost interest (or rather focused on more interesting non-Jruby stuff). So, I'm not qualified, nor motivated, to find the answers to the following questions. All I had time for at this point was to give Groovy a (probably unfair) chance with the above test (what operations are available on an array?). As I said, that experience did not make me want to explore further, and definitely didn't entice me in the least to stop programming in Ruby. So, anyone else (or nobody else) is welcome to answer these. I was just stirring things up, didn't want to actually do any work, other than possibly making some Old Pueblo Developers consider looking into Ruby and the world of Kool-Aid Flavored Happiness that awaits. You know I love you all :) 2) What is it best at? What is it worst at? 3) How well does it integrate with Java? (Groovy and Java are highly integrated in several different ways. At a minimum, Groovy classes can extend Groovy and Java classes and interfaces. Java classes can also extend Groovy classes and interfaces. The Groovy MOP protocol adds even more power to the integration). 4) How does JRuby resolve the conflict between Java and Ruby data types? 4a) Does it support coercion? Autoboxing and unboxing? 5) How faithful is it to the Ruby language? 6) Does it implement all of Ruby? 7) Can JRuby use Ruby libraries? 8) Is JRuby up-to-date with mainline Ruby development? 9) How fast is it? 10) How good is the tool support (IDEs and so on)? I look forward to learning more about JRuby. cheers, -tom [1] http://pivots.pivotallabs.com/users/chad/blog/articles/430-evan-phoenix-at-mountain-west-ruby-conf - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Groovy and JRuby (was Re: [jug-discussion] next month's meeting)
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:14 PM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I've mentioned before, I liked Groovy from a distance but I found it to be frustrating to use. My experience with Ruby was the opposite -- blah at first, but I quickly came to love it. Thanks William. I was waiting for someone who agreed with me to chime in before I responded on the thread. I've been using Ruby full-time, professionally for over two years now, and a hobbyist for a while before that. I used Java for several years before that, some of them with Scott and crew. To sum it up, Ruby makes me happy. I enjoy programming Ruby more than any other language. Many other people who work with Ruby say the same thing. This is not surprising, because Matz had this goal in mind when he created Ruby. Here's some quotes from him: Does the world need another language? In theory, no. We just need the Turing machine to solve all of our problems, in theory. Humans require more sophisticated tools to program. It's a matter of human need. As long as some people feel happy using Ruby, that's enough of a reason for another language for me. [1] For me the purpose of life is partly to have joy. Programmers often feel joy when they can concentrate on the creative side of programming, So Ruby is designed to make programmers happy. [2] So, philosophy is fine, but lets see some code to prove this example. Here's an example. Say I'm on a plane, and I am playing with (J)Ruby and Groovy to compare them (which I was). No interenets or reference books, just the interactive interpreters. The challenge is show me all the operations you can perform on an Array. Here's how you do it in (J)Ruby: chadmac:~ woolley$ jruby --command irb irb [].class = Array irb [].methods = [frozen?, sort, ...] irb [].methods.sort = [, *, +, -, , =, ==, ===, =~, ...] # almost, but still has the methods from Object irb [].methods.sort - Object.methods = [, *, +, -, , [], []=, all?, any?, ...] # Ah, just the methods from Array This is a beautiful experience which follows the Principle Of Least Surprise. For example: * Everything just prints out through the magic of duck typing, no class cast exceptions * [] IS an instance of an array * If I want the class or methods of this Array instance, I just ask it * If I want to sort the resulting array, I just call #sort * The - (subtract) operator does the logical thing, which is subtract the elements of one array from another. So, [].methods.sort - Object.methods gives me just the methods for Arrays Now, I tried to do this same thing in Groovy (with groovysh), and I failed frustratingly and miserably. I could get to the point of println'ing the methods of an Array (which is really an ArrayList in lipstick), but could see no way to do the nifty array subtraction to get rid of Object's methods. Not to mention the numerous exceptions when groovysh evaluates something that is not a string, and I have to println to get anything shown. Overall, confusion and NOT happiness. As a challenge, why don't the Groovy fans attempt this same thing and post it? I'll wager you write a lot more (ugly) code, and as William says, this is because Groovy is just too close to Java. Now for the unsubstantiated uninformed rant (couldn't get by without one of those): As for Grails, why use a substandard Rails clone built on a substandard Ruby clone? Check out Merb, that's the latest shiznit in Web Frameworks, and it is pretty sweet: http://merbivore.com/ It is similar to Rails, except they are doing all the things right that Rails does wrong. And for the ORM fans, check out DataMapper from the same crew: http://datamapper.org/ Sorry I'll miss the meeting, but I'll make it to another one soon to wax pedantic and give you Java guys grief ;) -- Chad [1] http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/11/29/ruby.html [2] http://www.artima.com/intv/rubyP.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next month's meeting
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In preparation for the upcoming No Fluff Just Stuff Jay Zimmerman has graciously offered us a speaker, Brian Sam-Bodden. He has volunteered to speak on either Groovy Metaprogramming talk or JRuby DSLs for Java APIs. I thought I would do an informal poll and see who was interested in either one of these. I'd vote for JRuby if I were going to be there. But I'm not :( -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Startup Drinks - Tucson
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Andrew Lenards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. - I didn't know if I should pass this along to the jug-announce list or what, so if this is seen as unwanted mail I'll offer my apologies here. Personally, I am fine with announcing new (but not necessarily ongoing) Tucson geek-oriented social groups here. It is good for the community, regardless of whether is it Java or not. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Scala thoughts
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:56 PM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the problem with adding static typing rules is one of diminishing returns. Abstractly speaking, imagine that a body of rules that can be described in one page of text eliminates 50% of common errors. Ten more pages of rules eliminate the next 25% of common errors. How many pages of rules would it take to get to 90%? Would you choose to use a language that eliminates 99.9% of errors if its static typing mechanisms took 500 pages to describe? A good testing framework can eliminate 90%+ of programming errors, and only takes a couple dozen pages of API docs to describe. Plus, you don't have to use a compiler if you are writing in an interpreted language ;) -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [4/8] Introduction to Scala
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This coming Tuesday Tom Hicks and Randy Kahle will be presenting on the new JVM language Scala. Sorry, will be at work in San Francisco. Codin' Ruby ;) I really think it is a great goal to learn new languages frequently, but at this point in my life, it's not happening for me. Spare time is spent hacking open source in a language I already know and like (Ruby). I'm going to have enough trouble learning all the other things besides my language that change on a daily basis (like the SVN to Git paradigm shift for open source). Hope the talk goes well! -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Meeting tomorrow [tonight!]
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 11:36 AM, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm game for this but how about a quick show of hands -- who's planning on coming? Sorry, couldn't make it this week (and obviously behind on email too). I'll try for next month, if I'm in town. Did anybody show, and do lightning talks? If so, how did it go? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Great Meeting
On Feb 13, 2008 10:29 AM, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also would love to hear stuff on Python/Ruby as well, they are welcome to join us, present, whatever. I'd like to hear a little of this but, for several reasons, I would be much more interested in hearing about things which are more closely connected to Java and would allow us to build on our huge investment in Java; such as Groovy, GRAILS, or Scala. Perhaps Chad could tell us about JRuby instead? Well, I remember that we decided (and semi-formally voted, if I recall) a while back that introducing a non-exclusively-java focus to the group would be accepted, and even productive. And, to be honest, I am going to be prone to proselytizing, because I am enjoying Ruby much more than I ever did Java. I also like Tucson, and would like to help build the Ruby community here, and find/convert people. As for jRuby, I did try it last week. I don't think it's quite ready for prime time (hacking and patches required to get one of our projects to work on it, and still not done). However, I think it is very promising, especially with Sun's commitment to running non-Java languages on the JVM, with JIT compilation and other improvements. The JIT stuff, of which they've just released some really cool sounding stuff recently, is huge IMHO. Java is dead, long live the JVM! Here's a some relevant blog posts to this thread and the meeting. First, here's Zed's rant that we were discussing at the meeting: http://www.zedshaw.com/rants/rails_is_a_ghetto.html Here is Rick's response to Zed's rant. It's clear he's not a Ruby convert. I don't really agree - even though I'm not an MIT CS language bigot type, I have worked with a lot of different stuff from JCL and COBOL on up, and I like Ruby a lot :) http://www.jroller.com/RickHigh/entry/thanks_zed_btw_syntax_matters And, here is a post from one of my co-workers at Pivotal, a very experienced developer with many years of Java under his belt, who is working with Java after being on Ruby projects for a couple of years. http://pivots.pivotallabs.com/users/alex/blog/articles/402-java-stink Anyway, good to see you guys again, and I'm hoping to keep it up. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Great Meeting
Good to see you all there. Thanks for the preso Warner, I enjoyed having a discussion with everyone about the flash world and related topics. And greetings to our first time guest - if you are on the list. Sorry, I'm terrible with names. Hey - what do you all think about trying Pecha Kucha [1] or Lightning Talk [2] format for an upcoming meeting? It can be anything - , a few bullet points or slides with a minute or so each, just show something cool you worked with recently. You do have something like that, right?!? Also, I've made a couple of Ruby/Python friends here in Tucson, and we were talking about starting a get together. Haven't asked them, but they might want to show some stuff and take advantage of the primo VMS digs ;) We also are planning to hit the Ruby/Rails group in Phoenix next month, I'm going to try out my rubyconf preso. Let me know what you think. Thanks, -- Chad [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecha_Kucha [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Podcast on Ruby, jRuby, Groovy, and Polyglot Programming
http://www.javaworld.com/podcasts/jtech/2007/112007jtech006.html This great podcast covers a lot of topics: * Why Ruby is more fun * Why Ruby is going to keep gaining ground in the enterprise (because of jRuby) * The differences between jRuby and Groovy * Why Groovy, cool though it is, will always be hobbled by its Java legacy (JavaBeans) * Why Ruby won't be (it's not Java, it's Ruby) * The futility of hiring mediocre programmers * How the JVM platform lets you use the right language for the right job (and never have tell the Ops team that it isn't all Java) -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] professional degree programs
Man I haven't seen this many big responses on the list in a long time :) My .02 - many of the smartest developers I've worked with in recent years have had non-tech degrees like English, Sociology, etc. On a related note: IMHO, quality companies who get it with regards to quality programmers don't care too much about degrees if you have street cred. For example, my company's interview process involves pair-programming with the CEO technical lead, and pairing on real-live projects. I think suggesting this approach to potential employees is a great way to distinguish yourself, and find out a lot about the company in the process. -- Chad On 8/23/07, Craig Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey All, I'm going on the 3rd year of my full-time career in software development now. Probably not unlike many others out there I was enticed away from completing my undergraduate degree for full-time work at a software development startup, and now Im looking into finishing up my degree. Unfortunately I've discovered that the UofA's CS program isn't really practical for professionals such as myself, as most of their CS courses are only offered during core business hours. I was wondering if any of you out there have experience and/or opinions on the quality of some of the programs out there tailored for professionals. For example, I've been researching the University of Phoenix. They have an online program which offers a BS tailored for software engineering: http://www.phoenix.edu/ online_and_campus_programs/degree_programs/ degree_programs_description.aspx?progversion=5locationid=-1 For you employers and/or educators out there: Which programs do you consider reputable and of good quality? Which programs would you recommend staying away from? How do you measure up a potential employee who has a degree from a program like this compared to a traditional university? Any feedback is welcome. -Craig Barber - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] professional degree programs
Don't blame him. He didn't send it from his iPhone... On 8/24/07, Aaron Rubin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you like to use question mark statements.? :P - Aaron.? --- Steve Shucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - I agree with Jon and Rob that a degree is not a prerequisite to asuccessful career and doesn't say as much about your abilities as yourexperience.� The
[jug-discussion] Re: Delivery Status Notification(Failure)
Does everyone else get this when responding to messages? If so, can whoever is responsible kill this subscription? On 8/24/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: has not been delivered to the recipient's BlackBerry Handheld. The returned error status is DB_USER_SUSPENDED_MODE - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [8/14] Part 1 of Flex/Laszlo smackdown
I'm unable to attend because I'm at Agile 2007 [1], but I'll be there in spirit... -- Chad [1] - http://agile2007.com/agile2007/index.php?page=sub/id=610 On 8/13/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This tuesday James Smith will be presenting part 1 of the Adobe Flex/ OpenLaszlo smackdown. In this presentation he will cover: 1) Communication between Java and Flex 2) How to build a simple Flex application that does event posting Warner will be presenting the Laszlo side of this next month (Sept. 11th). Starting this month we are going to be in a new location at the UofA's Student Union, the Tubac Room. The Tubac room is on the 4th (top) floor of the Student Union: http://www.union.arizona.edu/infodesk/maps/sumc_maps.php?level=level4 There is plenty of parking near to the Student Union all Lot 1s are free to park in after 5 pm. You can also park in the second street garage for $2. The parking lot that we have been parking at is not that far from the union if you still want to park there. All parking can be found on the UofA's Web site here: http://iiewww.ccit.arizona.edu//uamap/staticLarge/17.html Once the Web site is back up I'll add all of this to it. As usual we will start the meet and greet at 6:30, with the presentation at 7. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Hi guys.... Crank Crud Intro... JPA/JSF Crud tool
On 8/13/07, Rick Hightower [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel the productivety gain while using dynamic langauges is not as good as the productivty gain by using a good Java IDE. I'd rather have a good IDE then less lines of code. I realize that this may put me in the minority on this list but I am use to it. The lack of a ruby refactoring IDE does really suck, but you learn to deal with it :) They are working on it, though - Jruby+netbeans, and Ruby in Steel [1] on Visual Studio are two that I keep hearing about. Also, some lightweight editors like TextMate do pretty well with the idiom- and code-completion stuff. I actually prefer TextMate nowadays, which is a big conversion for a prior Eclipse devotee. Less chrome is nice :) I'd switch in a second though if something could give me foolproof project-wide method/Class renaming and such. -- Chad [1] http://www.sapphiresteel.com/spip.php?page=feature-list - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Hi guys.... Crank Crud Intro... JPA/JSF Crud tool
More OT-ness, sorry Rick... I also find many (but far from all) things in Ruby/Rails follow the Principle of Least Surprise. As for Scaffolding, I actually don't use it a lot. Since we do Test-Driven Development, I often just start from scratch. Unless you are doing straight-up CRUD or REST scaffolds, there often isn't a lot of useful stuff in the scaffold; you end up deleting more than you use. The standard-generated tests certainly suck, and are worse than none at all in some cases, IMHO, because they give people the idea that minimal, cookie-cutter tests are OK. Maybe that's what Venkat was talking about. Rails still has a lot of warts, and is downright buggy in a lot of areas, but the power of Ruby lets you fix these fairly elegantly [1] in many cases. Warts aside, Rails got a lot of things right. Migrations is one of these, as well as Capistrano. The ActiveRecord implementation is another - it's very powerful, flexible, and succinct, as illustrated here: [2]. I'm not sure what Grails is doing different that is class-first, or why AR would be considered table-first in contrast? Do you have to explicitly define all columns in Grails model classes? I'd consider that a downside. Regardless, once you start getting ActiveRecord and Embrace the Conventions, it feels nice and cohesive. There are numerious gotchas of course, but once you know your way around (which I'm still working on), you can quickly, easily, and elegantly do all sorts of useful stuff in your Model layer. You even start doing crazy things like pushing everything you can down into your Model [3]. It works out well, especially in RESTful architectures. As a pre-emptive strike against the performance naysayers, I can point to real world evidence [4] that with creative caching [5], you can make the interpreted-language slowness a relative non-issue for many sites. Rails isn't for anyone, it would be nice if it didn't have warts, and I can't conceive of attempting to write real Rails apps without a disciplined and sophisticated testing approach, but I certainly like it. YMMV. -- Chad [1] http://viewvc.rubyforge.mmmultiworks.com/cgi/viewvc.cgi/desert/trunk/lib/desert/rails/?root=pivotalrb [2] http://www.pivotalblabs.com/articles/2007/08/08/advanced-proxy-usage-part-i [3] http://www.pivotalblabs.com/articles/2007/07/26/access-control-permissions-in-rails-access-control-permissions-in-rails [4] http://www.pivotalblabs.com/articles/2007/06/27/rails-slashdotted-no-problem [5] http://www.pivotalblabs.com/articles/2007/08/08/cacheable-flash On 8/10/07, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't recall the name of the Rails adjunct that provided Grails-like scaffolding. I have to say that I like Grails' class-first approach better than Rails' table-first approach but it'll be interesting to see what the Grails guys come up with for migrations. (At NFJS Jeff Brown said they're working on it...) A little OT...I've been working through Groovy in Action and hardly a session with Groovy goes by without an unpleasant surprise or two. When learning Ruby there were numerous times when my intuition was correct about how two pieces would fit together. With Groovy it seems like I'm constantly out of step. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
On 6/20/07, eric biesterfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm putting in a second for Erlang. I looked at it a bit back, but I'm still waiting for a time to take it further. (I really want a proof of concept on something at work, but I think I'll wait for a few more months to present it...) Just rewrite your PBX. Didn't you see the video? It's easy! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
On 6/19/07, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erlang - You should at least work through the tutorial for it (and if you haven't seen it watch the video where they do live updates to the system). I think you mean this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5830318882717959520 It's hilarious - like programming meets Monty Python. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
Since processors will be multiplying instead of speeding up in the future, I think erlang or something similar has got a lot of potential. Having the language handle multithreading for you is huge, given how hard it is in other languages. On 6/19/07, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:08 AM 6/19/2007, you wrote: On 6/19/07, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erlang - You should at least work through the tutorial for it (and if you haven't seen it watch the video where they do live updates to the system). I think you mean this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5830318882717959520 It's hilarious - like programming meets Monty Python. Oh, my gawd!this has got to be a deliberate jokeit couldn't be this bad by accidentcould it? The production values are atrocious; the dialog is horrible; everyone is speaking in slow motion, stuttering, screwing up their lines; but, worst of all, you learn next-to-nothing about Erlang! It's not a collision with Monty Pythonit's a collision with those educational filmstripes from the 50's. -t - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
If your goal is to get a marketable skill, I'd say Ruby/Rails. Lots of Rails jobs out there, and more every day - especially if you want to move to the Bay Area :) On 6/17/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've posted up a little thing on my blog about what should be my next language, feel free to chime in (there or here). http://www.warneronstine.com/blog/articles/2007/06/17/next-language- to-learn -warner Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book on Tapestry 4! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Google Gears - in case you hadn't seen it elsewhere
It's Arial. You can't get much more generic than that, can you? I think my problem is that I'm using the Takahashi presentation method, and I have huge fonts. They are just slightly huger on Linux. I'm sure it's just an edge case that never got tested somewhere, fonts or not. This is the type of thing that a browser-based platform solves. Javascript under Firefox works pretty much the same on all platforms. -- Chad On 6/3/07, Dennis Sosnoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chad Woolley wrote: I can't wait until they get Google docs offline. I don't care about features, all I want is a consistent cross-platform office suite. NO, OpenOffice is not it, I just created a presentation on my Mac, standard fonts, text only, no background, and it formats like crap on Linux. I suspect your problem is fonts. I've never tried Mac, but OpenOffice certainly does a very good job on keeping presentations compatible across Linux and Windows providing you only use fonts which are available on both. Which pretty much makes sense - it can't magically create fonts that aren't present on the platform, so it just uses whatever is available of the same general type. Ironically, this generally means staying with the Windows core fonts which were accidentally released for unrestricted use back in the '90s. They're available for Linux distributions, so I assume they're also available on Mac. - Dennis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Google Gears - in case you hadn't seen it elsewhere
On 5/31/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This I think is pretty slick, offline Web apps through a browser plugin (firefox, IE, windows, mac, and linux). I think it's slick too. http://gears.google.com They provide an API that lets you run your Web application in offline mode. Now some people don't get this: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/347-youre-not-on-a-fucking-plane- and-if-you-are-it-doesnt-matter Yeah, some people don't get it. I'm sure he has a cellphone dongle thingy for his Macbook, but not everyone is the D to the H H.I sure don't have one... If the world makes One Laptop Per Child widespread, then I'm positive that everyone won't have one. Where does everyone see this thing going? I can't wait until they get Google docs offline. I don't care about features, all I want is a consistent cross-platform office suite. NO, OpenOffice is not it, I just created a presentation on my Mac, standard fonts, text only, no background, and it formats like crap on Linux. -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] tasks that developers do when learning a new language?
I knew there was some AOP library for Ruby but hadn't looked at it. It looks like AspectR is rather limited, I think this is the control-flow feature I'd want in order to only do something in the context of a view, but it doesn't seem to have it: control-flow based crosscutting Anyway, I'd be hesitant to recommend dumping something like this in a production app. Seems like it would have the possibility of being buggy and non-performant. Much of the stuff it does do you could probably design on your own with test coverage, and feel much more at ease. -- Chad On 4/23/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 23, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: How OO is it? In Ruby, for better or for worse, everything is an object. Even classes themselves are objects. This makes it possible (if not prudent) to do pretty much anything. How does it support cross-cutting concerns? Lately, I have been missing the ability to do Aspect-oriented programming in Ruby. For example, I want to HTML-escape the return value of any model getter which is in the call stack of a view. We ended up doing it manually, for every field in every view. When I started rambling about how you could do that sort of thing with 5 lines in AspectJ (and never have to worry about forgetting it for future fields), I just got blank stares... What about AspectR? Or metaprogramming? I'll be honest I haven't looked too much at Ruby's metaprogramming model, but the HigherOrderMessaging stuff I posted a while ago looked like it might be able to handle something like that. -warner -- Chad On 4/21/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was just curious, when you start learning a new language, what do try and do first? Here are some of the ones that I look at: - looping (how do I do a for loop) - if, then, else - switches (do they exist?) - object and array creation (what types are there and how do I do it) In a sense this goes beyond just syntax and assumes that you (the developer) already have some knowledge of how to program and are familiar with OO. -warner Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/ tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/ tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] tasks that developers do when learning a new language?
How OO is it? In Ruby, for better or for worse, everything is an object. Even classes themselves are objects. This makes it possible (if not prudent) to do pretty much anything. How does it support cross-cutting concerns? Lately, I have been missing the ability to do Aspect-oriented programming in Ruby. For example, I want to HTML-escape the return value of any model getter which is in the call stack of a view. We ended up doing it manually, for every field in every view. When I started rambling about how you could do that sort of thing with 5 lines in AspectJ (and never have to worry about forgetting it for future fields), I just got blank stares... -- Chad On 4/21/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was just curious, when you start learning a new language, what do try and do first? Here are some of the ones that I look at: - looping (how do I do a for loop) - if, then, else - switches (do they exist?) - object and array creation (what types are there and how do I do it) In a sense this goes beyond just syntax and assumes that you (the developer) already have some knowledge of how to program and are familiar with OO. -warner Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/ tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] OFF-TOPIC: Great Sysadmin?
Sorry if this breaks the no-job-offer taboo, but it's not like I'm a headhunter, I just want to stop doing so much sysadmin at work :) Does anyone know a GREAT senior unix sysadmin type? By GREAT, I mean mature, organized, experienced, responsible, hardworking, detail-oriented, and *open-minded* - someone you would personally vouch for. This would be for remote work w/travel or relocation to the Bay Area. You can respond off-line to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [2/13] Andrew Petro and Duffy Gillman on Single Sign-On Solutions
Thanks! On 3/19/07, Andrew William Petro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite belatedly, I have the CAS presentation materials posted in the wiki. Andrew Chad, I hope it was good. I'll have materials and links into the wiki this week but probably not today. Andrew - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [2/13] Andrew Petro and Duffy Gillman on Single Sign-On Solutions
I couldn't make this one, unfortunately. Was it good? Any materials to put on the wiki? On 2/10/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Join us this coming Tuesday for Andrew Petro and Duffy Gillman who will be presenting on SSO. Specifically CAS (for SSO management) and Shibboleth (Federated SSO with authorization, and multiple authentication providers). As usual meet and greet starts at 6:30 at our normal meeting spot (please note that we are not in the Gould Simpson building, but in CCIT). Meeting begins promptly at 7. I have also moved our web-page to point at the confluence site - http://tucson-jug.org/display/TJUG/Home Directions to our meeting can be found here - http://tucson-jug.org/ display/TJUG/Meetings I added everyone who put their names in the hat for the last meeting so if you find that you don't want to be subscribed to this list you can follow the directions here for unsubscribing - http://tucson- jug.org/display/TJUG/Mailing+Lists Unfortunately I will be out of town this week so I will not be in attendance. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [2/13] Andrew Petro and Duffy Gillman on Single Sign-On Solutions
Thanks for getting the homepage updated and moved, Warner... On 2/10/07, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Join us this coming Tuesday for Andrew Petro and Duffy Gillman who will be presenting on SSO. Specifically CAS (for SSO management) and Shibboleth (Federated SSO with authorization, and multiple authentication providers). As usual meet and greet starts at 6:30 at our normal meeting spot (please note that we are not in the Gould Simpson building, but in CCIT). Meeting begins promptly at 7. I have also moved our web-page to point at the confluence site - http://tucson-jug.org/display/TJUG/Home Directions to our meeting can be found here - http://tucson-jug.org/ display/TJUG/Meetings I added everyone who put their names in the hat for the last meeting so if you find that you don't want to be subscribed to this list you can follow the directions here for unsubscribing - http://tucson- jug.org/display/TJUG/Mailing+Lists Unfortunately I will be out of town this week so I will not be in attendance. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] volunteers needed
I'll pitch in for the domain fees, but I won't be in town for the next two meetings. Paypal or tell me where to send a check. On 12/19/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Some updates first, this holiday break I will be migrating the confluence page to be our home page and finish moving any old content over to the new system. This means that we need to keep our content on the confluence page up- to-date which currently isn't the case as we don't have any of our most recent presentations on the site. To this end I would like to ask for one or two volunteers to step forward to help in maintaining our wiki. This will mean periodically checking the site to make sure that we don't become victims of spam attacks or malicious re-working of our site. I will also be adding a Jobs page that will make it easier for people to find out what jobs are out there for us programmers, this will also need to be periodically updated by someone (I really don't have time to deal with the jobs stuff anymore unfortunately). Whomever volunteers for this will get admin privileges on the Confluence wiki to change the layout and move pages around as necessary so they will need to learn a little bit about confluence so we get our home page looking less like a confluence site (I will try and help with this as much as possible). Also, our domain registration is coming up this march as well so if we can do another donation pool for this that would be great. And finally my box has finally got enough running on it that I need to upgrade my Ram, I will hopefully get this together soon, but bills have to come first :-(. -warner Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book! Tapestry 101 available at sourcebeat.com/books/ tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] presentation for january
I'll be in San Francisco for the next two meetings, but hopefully after that I can attend (or present). -- Chad On 12/13/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If enough of you weren't bored to tears hearing me yack about DSLs last night I'd be glad to put together a real preso on them with some real examples that I've found. Here is some info on DSLs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_specific_languages -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] presentations for 2007
Sounds interesting. On 12/13/06, Andrew Petro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I give a decent talk on the Central Authentication Service. http://www.ja-sig.org/products/cas/ I figure I should eventually do something to earn my holiday dinner, which was wonderful, thanks TR. I'm not sure I can make the January date, though. Andrew - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] A JUG xmas party
The second Tuesday of the month is the regular meeting date, IIRC. On 12/11/06, Andrew Petro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also have not been to a meeting as of yet. In fact, I'm such a newbie that I don't even know what date this holiday gathering is happening. Might I join you all as well, and if so, could you let me know the date? Thanks, Andrew -Original Message- From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:33 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] A JUG xmas party Definitely! -warner On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:41 PM, Villegas, Regina wrote: Hello, Would it be too much to ask if I came for the meeting/dinner to meet with you all? I have not been to a meeting as of yet but would love to meet with you. Warm regards, Regina Villegas Recruiter 6245 E Broadway Blvd., Tucson, AZ 85711 888.247.3571 T 520.745.4704 F 520.745.4730 www.teksystems.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] A JUG xmas party
I should be able to make it. -- Chad On 12/5/06, TR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tucson Jugger Next week would be the regular meeting but it is close to christmas and there is nothing scheduled. Warner, Rene and I are inviting all to join us for dinner. We'll be at Feast on Speedway around 6pm and all are welcome. RSVP so we can know to save room for you. Hope to see you there TR - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] book is published!
congrats! On 12/4/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If for nothing else, this will kill all those jokes - So, when is the book gonna be done?. Yes, that's right, it's out. Here's my blog entry on it - http://jroller.com/page/warneronstine . You can buy it here - http://sourcebeat.com/books/tapestrylive.html . Thanks everyone for all of your support! -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] open laslo
Yes, true OO nature of Ruby is nice - everything is an object - operators, classes, class and instance methods. I'd be interested to see how Groovy compares in this area. For example, how easy is it to open up an existing third party class and add/override class methods. Having done this in both Java and Ruby, there is no comparison. Ruby == a few lines of code and a require statement. Java == use Aspect-Oriented Programming, custom AOP classloader/compiler, etc. Groovy == ??? On 11/10/06, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually prefer Ruby the language and I think it handles things like meta-objects in a much better way. It just seems that Groovy is closer than Java making it an easier sell and less training. On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Chad Woolley wrote: I'm not sure that Groovy is a better java integration choice. Assuming that both can be made to work equally well when compiling to bytecode and working with native java 3rd party libs, why not choose a fairly mature language that has widespread and growing popularity , rather than something relatively obscure and not as mature? -- Chad On 11/10/06, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I'd say sun is endoring jruby more since they have hired the two main developers to work on it. Kinda funny since Groovy seems like a better java integration choice. Now if they would just fix the major bugs and get a 1.0 out. On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Warner Onstine wrote: On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:29 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Why groovy vs. Jruby, other than the fact that Sun is endorsing Groovy? We all know that Sun only endorses usable and technically viable solutions (like J2EE). Not necessarily groovy vs. anything, I want to learn alot of different techs and I have a specific project in mind for groovy ;-). -warner OpenLazlo looks pretty cool, especially if it compiles to DHTML. Haven't used it myself. -- Chad On 11/9/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would very much like to, but that project hasn't bubbled up to the top yet, next on my list is groovy ;-). -warner On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Randolph Kahle wrote: Is anyone using or thinking about using open laslo? -- Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] open laslo
I'm not sure that Groovy is a better java integration choice. Assuming that both can be made to work equally well when compiling to bytecode and working with native java 3rd party libs, why not choose a fairly mature language that has widespread and growing popularity , rather than something relatively obscure and not as mature? -- Chad On 11/10/06, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I'd say sun is endoring jruby more since they have hired the two main developers to work on it. Kinda funny since Groovy seems like a better java integration choice. Now if they would just fix the major bugs and get a 1.0 out. On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Warner Onstine wrote: On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:29 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Why groovy vs. Jruby, other than the fact that Sun is endorsing Groovy? We all know that Sun only endorses usable and technically viable solutions (like J2EE). Not necessarily groovy vs. anything, I want to learn alot of different techs and I have a specific project in mind for groovy ;-). -warner OpenLazlo looks pretty cool, especially if it compiles to DHTML. Haven't used it myself. -- Chad On 11/9/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would very much like to, but that project hasn't bubbled up to the top yet, next on my list is groovy ;-). -warner On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Randolph Kahle wrote: Is anyone using or thinking about using open laslo? -- Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] open laslo
Why groovy vs. Jruby, other than the fact that Sun is endorsing Groovy? We all know that Sun only endorses usable and technically viable solutions (like J2EE). OpenLazlo looks pretty cool, especially if it compiles to DHTML. Haven't used it myself. -- Chad On 11/9/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would very much like to, but that project hasn't bubbled up to the top yet, next on my list is groovy ;-). -warner On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Randolph Kahle wrote: Is anyone using or thinking about using open laslo? -- Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [10/10] Meeting next week - Tom Hicks on Enterprise Service Bus (ESB)
Sorry I can't make this. I have to have at least one free evening this week. I'll be there in spirit, though! -- Chad On 10/5/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Next week Tom will be presenting on ESBs using FUSE and Apache ServiceMix. Time: 6:30 meet and greet Where: CCIT building, LTC on the UofA Campus (map and parking on Web site) Topic: An Introduction to ESBs using FUSE and Apache ServiceMix Speaker: Tom Hicks, Tohono Consulting LLC The Enterprise Service Bus (ESB) is a hot buzzword in the web services world and companies like Sun, Fiorano, Software AG, Iona, Sonic, and BEA are investing heavily in building ESB products. In this talk, I will share my exploration of the ESB space using LogicBlaze's open source FUSE product, which incorporates the open source Apache ServiceMix ESB which, in turn, is built upon the Java Business Integration (JBI) technology (JSR 208). I will present a brief introduction to the concepts of ESB and SOA (Service Oriented Architecture), followed by an overview of FUSE, Apache ServiceMix, and JBI. A working demonstration will examine some example components running in the ServiceMix ESB and what it took to develop them. Finally, I will share some lessons I have learned from the experience. Map and other fun facts can be found at: http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Meetings -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
On 9/21/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JUGs will likely degrade in relevance( a process already in effect ) Huh-Huh. Huh-Huh. He said jugs. Dunno about you, but jugs are still very high in relevance to me. Sorry, just doing my part to keep the quality of discussions on this group high... -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
Actually, in one of the in-person meetings recently, I believe we officially decided to allow a wider-than-just-java focus for the group. We even took minutes, and I think there's a screenshot or notes somewhere on the confluence wiki. I'm don't have time to find it now, but it doesn't matter. Since that was the the consensus at the in-person meeting, I would think that applies to the lurkers and out-of-towners too. It's fine for the group to get off topic sometimes, and definitely OK to discuss non-java technical stuff. If anyone disagrees with this, please speak up now, since you didn't at the in-person meeting (or at least weren't in the majority who did, there may have been a dissenter or two). Personally, I don't even do much Java anymore, except hacking on open source tools I use to do my Ruby work. However, I still am a member of this group, though, AND still attend most of the in-person meetings, AND occasionally present to the 2-6 other people who show up, just because I like the people and diversity, occasional insightful post, and beer. -- Chad On 9/21/06, Michael Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by some, let's get serious. Call it govern themselves or sensorship or standards or regulations, etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a discussion thread starts off on AJAX relative to Java and someone interjects some .NET code examples, is that off topic enough? Who decides? If someone is talking Apple Battery recalls and speaks of their Dell or an Airport travel problem, is that off topic or not Java enough to warrant expulsion? Who decides? If someone is just cranky and finds too much idle chatter clogging up their inbox and uses an obviously offensive sentence to illustrate a point, is that enough to sensor it? Who decides? If someone calls someone else a jackass but managed to veil it somewhat, is that enough? Who decides? Every list I am on has had some obnoxious person try to hijack the list for their own agenda and most times they get flamed enough to get pissed off and leave without having to bar them, which doesn't work BTW because a new email address is 30 seconds away. I think Warner is right on target, and I don't know of any degrading user that has needed to be banned or even heavily chastized, so if someone, including me gets too off topic to the point of degrading the list, somebody please just say so. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: josh zeidner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:37 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo I guess its some kind of coincidence that I am noticing a high degree of informal commentary on UG lists lately. You do realize that this kind of thing reflects badly on customer and employer appeal? For instance, I could say some kind of offhand comment like they'll give a greencard to just about any slob who scraped up enough money to bribe the DOL!. Obviously, some may be deeply offended by such a statement. Although it is certainly the prerogative of a group to govern themselves the way they see fit, in the case of a JUG, there is the issue of the exploitation of the legitimacy that the JUG term provides. I'm wondering if there are any regulations that deal with this issue in the JCP or whether the JUG term is an entirely public-domain all-purpose term that can be utilized by any party. I would assume that if there are no such regulations then either 1) JUGs will likely degrade in relevance( a process already in effect ), 2) such regulations will be imposed in the future. The problems of such exploitation extend to all members of a local area. Thanks, Josh Zeidner --- Nick Lesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To Tim and Jon: I nearly fell out of my freaking chair at White and Nerdy. To the rest of you: If you haven't seen it, it's a must see. Back to Tim: Even Google hasn't solved the problem of how to migrate all of your friends and relatives from your old address. Besides, this way I can spy on their new UI! FWIW: I couldn't survive without GMail for my work account. Only Gmail can handle the volume of internal mail I get. Back to the group: Oh, and anyone who's in the area for Hackday's welcome to come and visit the 'plex. Dunno what Yahoo has planned for HackDay, but I guarantee our cafe food is better on the average Tuesday than it is at Yahoo's special event. That's right. I went there. Nick On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: Lol... am I the only one laughing that Nick sent this from his yahoo.com email? Hojillion -- number of hos you can fit in your car ... hmm, in my two-seater that'd only be one and she'd have to sit on the wife's lap...which would
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
On 9/20/06, Nick Lesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and anyone who's in the area for Hackday's welcome to come and visit the 'plex. Dunno what Yahoo has planned for HackDay, but I guarantee our cafe food is better on the average Tuesday than it is at Yahoo's special event. He's right. The quantity and quality of food at google would ALMOST justify the 500% cost of living increase to relocate to Silicon Valley, or to relocate to the vast suburban hellhole that is called Phoenix. Almost, but not quite... -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Is this Web 2.0?
Finally watched this (it's what Warner was talking about last night). It's really fascinating and really funny. I don't think it has much to do with Web2.0 in the, er, traditional, sense, but it's still fascinating. -- Chad On 9/2/06, Steven Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to share with the jug a wonderful presentation on Human Computation which presents Web2.0 concepts in a very useful light. Not really specific to Java but since many of us work with the broader concepts of web technologies I thought you would find it of interest not to mention that Luis von Ahn is a very smart guy. http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8246463980976635143amp;hl=en enjoy, Steven PS: This presentation format is what I was suggesting (many months ago) which could greatly benefit long distance juggers like myself. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Is this Web 2.0?
Cool on the Jruby. I think I saw that guy talk at RubyConf '05. This is a great thing for the future viability of Java (or at least the JVM). Nice to see Sun making some smart decisions ;) They will need a lot of smart decisions to compete effectively against flash and other client-side technologies in the long haul. The ubiquitous and portable JVM is their advantage here, and they should leverage it. On the Web 2.0, I'd heard it was a trademark, but I forgot. Can I just say Web 2006? -- Chad On 9/13/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chad, I posted this to Phoenix refresh lately. Sun has invested some resources in supporting Ruby( a headline technology in Web 2.0 ) in the JVM. I like to point this fact to people: 'Web 2.0' is registered trademark of CMP Media, LLC. a major media corporation. http://headius.blogspot.com/2006/09/jruby-steps-into-sun.html The primary goal is to give JRuby the attention it really needs. The potential for Ruby on the JVM has not escaped notice at Sun, and so we'll be focusing on making JRuby as complete, performant, and solid as possible. We'll then proceed on to help build out broader tool support for Ruby, answering calls by many in the industry for a better or smarter Ruby development experience. I'm also making it a personal priority to continue growing the JRuby community, foster greater cooperation between the Java and Ruby worlds, and work toward a whole-platform Ruby-on-JVM strategy for Sun. -jmz --- Chad Woolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally watched this (it's what Warner was talking about last night). It's really fascinating and really funny. I don't think it has much to do with Web2.0 in the, er, traditional, sense, but it's still fascinating. -- Chad On 9/2/06, Steven Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to share with the jug a wonderful presentation on Human Computation which presents Web2.0 concepts in a very useful light. Not really specific to Java but since many of us work with the broader concepts of web technologies I thought you would find it of interest not to mention that Luis von Ahn is a very smart guy. http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8246463980976635143hl=en enjoy, Steven PS: This presentation format is what I was suggesting (many months ago) which could greatly benefit long distance juggers like myself. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] meeting tonight!
http://www.seanastin.com/images/9998m.jpg On 9/12/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgot to send this out last night - sorry all. Yes, we are having a meeting tonight, Scott Segal from VMS will be presenting on their transition from Waterfall to XP and back again and what the challenges and changes were that went into the move. We will be meeting at the same spot as usual at the CCIT building at the UofA campus. Directions here: http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Meetings Meeting starts at 7, meet and greet at 6:30. Hope to see you there! -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Interesting blog on ORM-less (or not)
This is an interesting contrast to Ruby on Rails. In Rails, you get ActiveRecord. No choices required :) There's probably some other framework ORM-ish Gems out there, but nobody that I know ever uses them. The thing is, it works fine for most Rails-sized apps. The only real point that can cause pain is that Rails only supports Single-Table Inheritance for mapping class hierarchies. This can bother you if you're obsessive about normalization, or have a big app, I guess. It tends to drive you towards shallower hierarchies, but that may not be a bad thing... However, ActiveRecord Migrations more than makes up for that pain, in my opinion. Migrations are the coolest thing about Rails. Too bad there's nothing like it in Java. Is there? Don't any of these ORM tools have something like that built in yet? Last time I checked (going on a couple years ago, granted), there were just some NANT scripts somebody posted on the Agile Databases list. -- Chad On 8/15/06, William H. Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today's ServerSide newsletter has a link for a better-than-usual blog on to ORM or not to ORM. (Executive summary: Can't live with them; can't live without them!) Here's the link: http://www.theserverside.com/blogs/thread.tss?thread_id=41715asrc=EM_NNL_452368 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Re: failure notice
Hmm, my mail to the list bounced??? On 8 Aug 2006 16:45:32 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mailman.proroom.net. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ezmlm-store: fatal: I'm sorry, you are not allowed to post messages to this list (#5.7.2) --- Enclosed is a copy of the message. -- Forwarded message -- From: Chad Woolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:45:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] [8/8] meeting tonight, Rene on outsourcing I'm out of town too. Sorry to miss it, Rene! -- Chad On 8/8/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rene Stone will be giving a presentation on Outsourcing to India: Everything you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask. Basically taking a look at outsourcing from someone who is doing it and what it means. Same bat channel, same bat time, UofA CCIT building at 6:30 for meet and greet, 7 for presentation. Directions and map are here at the bottom of the page: http://tucson-jug.org/contact.html#location Unfortunately I'm out of town for the week, but will see you wall next month! -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] [8/8] meeting tonight, Rene on outsourcing
I'm out of town too. Sorry to miss it, Rene! -- Chad On 8/8/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rene Stone will be giving a presentation on Outsourcing to India: Everything you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask. Basically taking a look at outsourcing from someone who is doing it and what it means. Same bat channel, same bat time, UofA CCIT building at 6:30 for meet and greet, 7 for presentation. Directions and map are here at the bottom of the page: http://tucson-jug.org/contact.html#location Unfortunately I'm out of town for the week, but will see you wall next month! -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] MS Access / Filemaker like front-end for MySQL/Oracle?
Just out of curiosity, why isn't dabbledb a contender? On 7/27/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You guessed it, this probably has nothing to do with Java. Go ahead, ban me from the list. :-P I'm looking for something that smells like MS Access (or better) Filemaker that enables a nitwit (i.e. end user) to flip data around, edit it, import/export it... solution must be multi-user, and can't be web-based. The tool must be ridiculously snappy because it will compete for mindshare with Excel...even though we all know Excel is for flippin' calculations... not manipulating tables of data...but that's how people use it...they filter, they sort, they copy/paste, they fill-down. It is what it is. Excel is a better mousetrap for most folks. You might say, Well...then just flippin' use MS Access + SQL Server...and go away from this Java User Group list, ya foolhardy nitwit! B. SQL Server isn't an option. There's gotta be some desktop app that does some of the neat trickery that the http://www.dabbledb.com folks do in a webapp... something that will run cross-platform and connect to Oracle or MySQL for data. Yes...I realize what I'm asking about is a 4GL Client/Server app. Go ahead and tell me why that's stupid you must...and I'll ignore it with as much aplomb as I can muster. grin Cheers, Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] how many people are going saturday?
I was planning on going, and bringing my son. I think I also said I'd bring some food, but I'll have to check my sent mail to remember what :) -- Chad On 7/12/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious who all is going Saturday to Mt. Lemmon. I plan on going. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices
Well, lets be empirical. Here's a real Rails site: http://communitywalk.com communitywalk.com is a RoR site that was developed at my current employer, usually by one or two pairs at a time, with most of the work done by the site owner (who is an employee too). I didn't work on it much (was mostly done when I came on), but I'd say they probably spent about 2-3 pair months of the total dev time optimizing performance. Maybe a lot less. It's a cool site, and it performs pretty well. I guess you'd call it Web 2.0, there's Google maps and lots of Javascript, but I wouldn't call it sleazy :) We're currently running it (MySql DB and Lighty/Rails) on a single Xen virtual machine on a new Xeon box. I think it's about in the 30-40 Gig/month bandwidth range - not sure on hits. Not huge traffic, but not tiny, considering it's all on one box. How would you quantify an impressive load for a site to handle and still have good performance? -- Chad On 6/24/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Erik, After having worked with countless web frameworks and dozens of languages I will say this: What you gain in development effort and 'syntactic sugar' you lose in performance. As all these sites prop up I just give it a year or two before people start marketing themselves as experts in 'optimizing' RoR, so they can sell the solutions to the performance problems that the 'peace and contentment' caused. Very similar with EJB and CMP. EJB offered a simplistic layer of abstaction that made data management simpler, but also caused a huge expense in the management of the EJB container! Secondly, if Ruby can offer more to the client, then the RoR programmer will charge more! Aren't labor economics fun? EJB in the end, didnt save anyone a cent. There is nothing new under the sun, but there is a never ending supply of idiots and people willing to pay them. Having witnessed the Web 2.0 sleaziness first hand, I do not trust anything that is associated with that world. If you want to deliver something really good to your client, give them standards that are unencumbered by licenscing constraints( where it is affordable of course ). I still do respect Java as a language because the semantics are well established. The changes that it introduced to C++ syntax were well accounted for. sincerely, jmz --- Erik Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 21, 2006, at 9:08 PM, josh zeidner wrote: RoR: Why? because its Web 2.0( see CMP Media scandal ). The whole Web 2.0 thing( which RoR is invariably linked to ) has turned out to be a very stupid multi-level marketing scheme starring Tim O'Reilly. RoR offers no technological advantages over existing scripting languages, despite the magical claims of its proponents. My good (virtual) friend, Brent Ashley told me recently if Jesse James Garret is the father of AJAX, then you and I are the mailmen that all the kids look like. Back in the Tucson days, between getting .bombed by Running Start and starting at eBlox I wrote an article about Remote Scripting for developerWorks which was my first foray into technical writing. No technological advantage? I disagree. The brevity and readability... let's just say succintness most definitely is advantageous. For example, to wire up a Google-Suggest-like drop- down box I put this in my template: %= text_field_with_auto_complete :agent, :name, :size = 20 % And there is a controller method that generates the ul that gets rendered. There is a lot of convention, over configuration, and sometimes that is a bit too magical even for my tastes. But I can confidently say that RoR will be my preferred front-end technology for the foreseeable future and with loosely coupled back- end technologies, such as Solr, it's trivial to tie the best of breed pieces together, Java (or otherwise). Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices
On 6/24/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is it that every Ruby expert that I run into has absolutely nothing to show? I'm definitely not an expert, but I just showed you http://communitywalk.com in another post. http://zubio.com is another one we have done. There are a couple of others that are mostly complete, but not released publicly yet, as well as an internal agile project-management app. There's also this page: http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/RealWorldUsage -- Chad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices
On 6/22/06, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Ralph Griswold (creator or SNOBOL and Icon programming languages) used to say that there's really nothing new under the sun in CS, it's all recycled. Yep, you certainly can get a lot of mileage out of just 1's and 0's... I have to note that this statement form you admire so much comes directly from Smalltalk of 20 years ago! So why hasn't anyone come up with Smalltalk On RailS (SOReS)? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices
Erik, lowercase web services? What do you use to talk XML on the RoR side? One of the Ruby SOAP implementations, something homegrown, or something else? I work for a Rails shop, and we've done SOAP in one app. The one thing I noticed it had in common with Java (Axis) was that it NEVER just works, especially if you are talking to Microsoft on the other end. Even though it's a platform independent protocol, you always end up having to work around bugs or write some hacks to deal with type/array mismatches or something. -- Chad On 6/21/06, Erik Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, but what about Ruby on Rails?! ;) My current projects (yes, more than one) consist of a RoR front-end and a Solr (http://incubator.apache.org/solr) as a major backend piece via XML over HTTP (lowercase web services). Erik On Jun 20, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Rick Hightower wrote: H I find Tapestry to be powerful and robust. It seems to handle resources better than JSF. It is also really easy to create Tapestry components (out of other Tapestry components no less). JSF component creation (true components not composition components ala Facelets) is lacking. Many things in Tapestry just work the way they should. Many things in JSF don't just work the way they should. For example, in Tapestry when you get an error with a field, that field is automatically highlighted, in JSF you have to do it yourself. There is not reason why h:form could not do it for you. It just doesn't. However Tapestry takes a lot more effort to grasp and it takes a lot more effort to learn. It is complicated. It did not get simpler in Tapestry 4. Injection via an abstract getter, anyone? Shudder? I think I have grasped it (but I enjoy complex stuff), but to use it on a large team... YIKES! There is going to be a lot of developer body bags. JSF is far easier to learn and grasp. Back to your original question: When would you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets? I don't get to pick. The pick is usually done before I get there and I merely assist with the choice. I am thankful for this. Both have their issues. However as I breathe, I have an opinion: I think JSF is far superior for internal apps where the look and feel is not extremely important. The main criterion is developer productivity. I think Tapestry is far superior for external apps where the look and feel is critical. The main criterion is look and feel. Also if you are going to create a lot of custom components, Tapestry is a better choice as well. Facelets closes the gap (quite a bit) between Tapestry and JSF, but Tapestry is still a better platform for building components. On the other hand, there are more OTS components available for JSF. The docs for Tapestry are lacking. The amount of information about Tapestry pails in comparison to JSF I feel I am qualified to make the above statements having used both. I have not bias towards either. I can make money doing either. I enjoy working with both. Rick helped us to get our arms around Tapestry, Hibernate, and Spring. We are implementing all new J2EE applications in these technologies. Rick showed us how to pull all of these things together. Wayne Having taught both JSF and Tapestry workshops, I can tell you this. Developers get JSF quickly. Developers stumble with Tapestry. It takes twice as long to do the equiv CRUD lab in Tapestry versus the other. (It takes another two times as long to do it in classic Struts so...). Granted Tapestry is very powerful however that power begets complexity. Tapestry 5 should focus on developer productivity. Well you asked. -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:29 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices Hopefully not. I didn't ask which app framework is better? I asked a specific question of Rick (and others) from his experience When would you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets? I was hoping for a summary based on his experiences with various frameworks. cheers, -tom At 12:16 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: you may have just started the next religious war On Jun 20, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Hicks wrote: Hey Rick, You raise an issue I've been looking at lately: the pros cons of various web app dev frameworks. I was motivated by my lack of knowledge about what's out there and inspired by Matt Raible's comparison presentation (http://www.virtuas.com/articles/ webframework-sweetspots.html). In the snippet below you mention JSF/Facelets and Tapestry. When do you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets (or vice versa)? (Anyone else with experience in the frameworks area, please chime in). regards, -tom At 11:00 AM 6/20/2006, Rick wrote: . Nick, I was up your way working on a Tapestry
Re: [jug-discussion] Net Neutrality (techno-political)
Took me about 2 minutes to call McCain and Kyl - because I had the numbers right in the email. Never underestimate the power of big money, soulless corporate entities, and their lobbyists to spread corruption and evil. I for one definitely don't mind getting stuff like this on the list. We need information, cooperation and action to fight the widespread ignorance in America and make a change. -- Chad On 6/15/06, Andrew Lenards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I spoked with Senator Kyl's office and left a message for Senator McCain. Took all of 5 minutes to do. I hope others are calling. I'm quite shocked this made it out of the House. Andy On 6/14/06, Nick Lesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heed Tom's words, get educated, and please let your senators know how you feel! Those of us living in the bay area can usually count on our representatives to be pro-sensible-internet-policy. It would help if Arizona's senators also knew that their constituents care. Keep in mind that ability to pay may not be the only criteria that these big companies use when deciding who gets advanced service and who gets molasses service. Nick On Jun 14, 2006, at 12:59 PM, Thomas Hicks wrote: Dear Fellow JUG members, As technologists, we often have the luxury of avoiding political issues. Unfortunately, however, one of the founding principles of the Internet, Network Neutrality, is currently under seige by lawmakers. Big telecomm and ISP companies like ATT, Verizon, and Comcast are spending millions to lobby lawmakers to let them prioritize network traffic based on the sender's ability to pay. Possible problems and actual abuses under such a system are listed at: http://www.savetheinternet.com/=threat#abuse The fear that gutting Network Neutrality will pose serious problems for small, non-profit organizations (such as the Tucson JUG), has lead a huge diversity of organizations to support renewing the principle as law: http://www.savetheinternet.com/=coalition Last Thursday, the House, including our representative Jim Kolbe, voted to kill Network Neutrality. He and a majority of others in the house also voted against the (pro-neutrality) Markey Net Neutrality Amendment . Hopes now turn to the Senate where our senators: Senator John McCain Phone: 202-224-2235 Senator Jon Kyl Phone: 202-224-4521 will have the chance to consider this question and the chance to protect Net Neutrality by supporting the bipartisan Snowe-Dorgan Internet Freedom Preservation Act (S. 2917). Should you feel that this issue is of importance to your job, your blog, your JUG, your favorite causes, or merely your sanity, you may find these additional links helpful: summary of the issue: http://www.savetheinternet.com/=faq find out more: http://www.savetheinternet.com/ petition your representatives: http://civic.moveon.org/save_the_internet/ regards, -tom hicks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] JUG Anniversary Celebration
The 8th and 15th work for me. On 6/12/06, Rene Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, For the JUG's anniversary celebration, since it's in the middle of the hot summer, TR and I were thinking that a pot luck picnic would be fun. Everyone can bring family friends and we can all get outside for a bit. We need to figure out when, where and who's bringing what. Below are some suggestions on all 3. I vote for July 8 or July 15. I also think our best bets would be one of the Mt. Lemmon picnic areas. Perhaps someone who knows Mt Lemmon better than I can suggest which area might be best. TR and I will bring some water and probably a bucket of Eegee's for drinks. We'll also bring some hot dogs and buns. Also, we may need a propane grill, if there are fire restrictions, so if anyone has one that we can use, that would be great. Thanks, Rene When? Upcoming possible Saturdays: June 24 July 1 July 8 July 15 July 22 July 29 Where--other suggestions? http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coronado/forest/recreation/camping/picnic-guide.shtml http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coronado/forest/recreation/camping/picnic-guide.shtml All the following have some fees associated except Agua Caliente: Catalina State Park? Alder Picnic Area (Mt Lemmon) Sykes Knob Picnic Area (Mt Lemmon) Inspiration Rock Picnic Area (Mt Lemmon) Agua Caliente Sabino Canyon Items for picnic everyone BYO beverages (we'll bring water or lemonade in a big container) paper plates paper cups plasticware napkins hot dogs hot dog buns hamburgers hamburger buns pickles/onions/tomatoes ketchup/mustard/relish chips/dip salads side dishes (cole slaw, beans, veggies,etc) desserts (cookies, brownies, etc) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?
Python would be fun... On 4/13/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i guess what i'm shooting for is, what topics are people interested in doing? i've listed a few of mine, but feel free to chime in or pipe up if what i've mentioned interests you. -warner On Apr 13, 2006, at 8:53 AM, Chad Woolley wrote: I might, depending on the topic, the time, and my availability... On 4/12/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Awhile ago I tried to get a little code sprint going on for people interested in learning Tapestry and maybe creating something useful. I would like to remold these into strictly learning sessions that we do maybe every other month or every 3 months and keep the sessions closer to 3-4 hours. The goal of these sessions is to learn from each other, in fact none of us may be familiar with the technologies at hand, but its an opportunity to beat your head against a wall with a group of people grin /. With that said here are some of the things that I have an interest in: Lucene - http://lucene.apache.org Ruby on Rails - http://rubyonrails.com Ruby - http://ruby.org Python - http://python.org TurboGears (python web framework gaining some mindshare) - http:// www.turbogears.org/ Ajax - uhh, all over the place SOA - kinda general Web Services stuff, not sure exactly what we would investigate C# Objective-C Flex - http://labs.macromedia.com/ Laszlo - http://openlaszlo.org Again, this would be for learning something not necessarily making something. So, that being said, who is interested? I'm thinking that we might be able to have our first one in a couple of weeks if people are interested in devoting a Sat/Sun afternoon to geeking out and then grabbing a beer afterwards (and yes laptops would probably be required as we don't have extra computers here - but that's what pair programming is all about, sharing ;-). -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?
If we are going to do more stuff on the wiki now, it would be good to put a link to it on the main JUG home page. And maybe link to the meeting list on the wiki too, instead of the outdated one on the home page? -- Chad On 4/13/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems like a good topic to continue on the wiki. ;-) http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Home http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Code+Camp+Discussion Speaking of wiki -- it would help tremendously if a mail server was available. Warner -- you mentioned the SMTP server requires a login. I think if you create a [EMAIL PROTECTED] acccount, Confluence will login and email will work. Worth a try. -Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Code Camps .... RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?
Lack of IDE support does suck in Ruby, but there are many other things to (almost?) make up for it :) As for the non-Java focus, this is something we discussed in the last few meetings. Kind of branching out an attempt to give a little more life to the group, and make it easier to come up with interesting presos/presenters. -- Chad On 4/13/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created a framework called Presto that is similar in concept to RoR, but it is all Java. It makes heavy use of Spring AOP/Introductions, Hibernate and Facelets composition components. It is similar in concept to Trails but for JSF. IMHO, it is far more practical, more flexible and less obtrusive than Trails. Then again, what would you expect me to say It uses Hibernate, Spring, Maven 2, Tomahawk, AspectJ, Acegi, JSF and Facelets. (Trails uses Hibernate, Ant and Spring). It also does a lot of heavy Spring/JSF integration as well. If anyone is interested, I'd like to offer it up as a code camp discussion. This will be good practice as we are creating a video at some point. Personally, I have a strong distaste for Ruby and Python. I think scripting languages are a step backwards because of their lack of IDE support. Scripting has its place for sure, but I was a very large Python fan at one point. I still love the language but... I am still hoping that Groovy will hit the sweet spot of tool support and great Java integration. I have my doubts. Also someone has to add Rife to the list. Rife continuations are the bomb. (This is something I plan on adding to Presto/JSF). BTW Since this is a JUG and there is so much Java stuff going on why the focus on inferior platforms. Why not Rife (continuations and metaprogramming) Spring 2.0 (new features) Avatar (Ajax JSF support at the component level) Facelets (Composition components) etc. -Original Message- From: Tim Colson (tcolson) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:51 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps? I think that would be great. Volunteers to help set up? (I have absolutely no idea on how to make confluence look less confluency and more like a regular site). It is more import to have current information than a site that doesn't look confluency, in my opinion. ;-) -T - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Desert Code Camp
Thanks Warner, that looks pretty cool. Anything with a session entitled Behold my Bouncing Balls has to be a winner! -- Chad On 4/4/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sending this because it looks interesting enough to share with everyone else. I know it's in Phoenix, but at least it's in Arizona ;-). - Code Camp comes to the desert May 6 at University of Advancing Technology (Phoenix, AZ)! Register now: http:// www.desertcodecamp.com Please forward to your developer contacts. What is a Code Camp? In short, it is a free developer conference. Who is welcome? Anyone! To get a better understanding, here's the Code Camp Manifesto: By and For the Developer Community Code Camps are about the developer community at large. They are meant to be a place for developers to come and learn from their peers. Topics are always based on community interest and never determined by anyone other than the community. Always Free Code Camps are always free for attendees. Community Developed Material The success of the Code Camps is that they are based on community content. All content that is delivered is original. All presentation content must be provided completely (including code) without any restriction. If you have content you don't want to share or provide to attendees then the Code Camp is not the place for you. No Fluff only Code Code Camps are about showing the code. Refer to rule #1 if you have any questions on this. Community Ownership The most important element of the Code Camp is always the developer community. All are welcome to attend and speak and do so without expectation of payment or any other compensation other than their participation in the community. Never occur during work hours We need to understand that many times people can't leave work for a day or two to attend training or even seminars. The beauty of the Code Camp is that they always occur on weekends. The community leaders in the desert have worked together to arrange this venue for our software developer communities. It's not a one- technology event. There will be sessions on Java, Flash, open source, Microsoft, database, and all other technologies. Nothing is off limits. Call to Action Register now at http://www.desertcodecamp.com Suggest Sessions at http://www.desertcodecamp.com SPREAD THE WORD about it to any and all communities, colleagues, etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] RE: online presentations
I agree here. Comments are valuable, but especially if we are recording a preso, dissertations from the peanut gallery should be saved until after the preso and question session is complete. We all know how geeks love to spout their wisdom, even if they don't want to step up and do it in the capacity of a presenter :) On 2/4/06, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW I not only value a good presentation but consider just as valuable the audience participation, QA. Hmmm...maybe afterwards. In my experience the questions and participation quickly gets out of hand and interrupts the flow of a good presentation. regards, -tom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
