[LUTE] Email Change
How do I go about changing the email address I have registered with the Lute List? Thanks in advance, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Blocked Emails Was : To Chris Goodwin
Apologies for the tardy response, I had a similar event happen when my website was hosted on an ISP called Simple Helix. Other websites hosted on that server were spamming, and the entire host ISP, including MY site, was blacklisted by a company called SORBS. I had problems multiple times. The problems happened at the most inconvenient times, such as when I needed to communicate with musicians in my Messiah orchestra! There are other blacklist databases, also. AOL probably subscribes to one or more of these databases. So, Rainer, you MAY need to do what I ended up doing: Change to a different web host! My site, www.heartistry.com, is now hosted on Pair Networks: www.pair.com I have never had a problem with this since. All the best, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music www.heartistry.com 715-682-9362 On 13.04.2015 07:36, gary wrote: Some servers block emails from servers they (the servers) judge have too many pop ups and spam without the clients knowledge. The client needs to access their settings to allow blocked emails. I know. However, t-online never attaches anything like that, Rainer Gary On 2015-04-12 07:43, Rainer wrote: I have tried with a different account (mine, not his) and now it seems to work. Apparently AOL seems to believe that I or all users at t-online are spammers. These are real professionals, As I already said, I am surprised AOL still exists ;) Rainer On 12.04.2015 14:17, Rainer wrote: Chris I can't send an email to you. AOL doesn't like me or whatever. I didn't even know AOL still exists :) Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: how to amplify lute?
I've been lurking on this list for a while.. time to contribute! Soundboard transducer type pickups could be an option, i.e. Fishman: [1]http://www.fishman.com/products/filter/type:pickups The link you gave would seem to be a simple type of soundboard pickup or contact microphone (I'm not certain). As Tobiah said, the drawback with this type of system is that the amplified tone quality might not seem natural, but it could work in a pinch. Note that pickups that attach to the soundboard will also be sensitive to knocks and other movements. A little OT and probably overkill for a single performance, but I've often wondered if the DPA miniature omnidirectional lavalier microphones would work well for lute sound reinforcement: [2]http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Itemcategory8item $039 Some kind of custom amount would probably be necessary for mic'ing a lute in this way, as attaching a lavaliere type microphone directly to the soundboard would over-emphasize the low end/bass response. But as long as mechanical transmission of sound/vibration was accounted for, a close mounted, high quality omnidirectional mic such as this should give good sound quality. [Note that miniature/lavaliere microphones are usually designed to pick up speech, sometimes while mounted under clothing, so they tend to have artificially boosted high end - not ideal for instrumental pickup.] On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Tobiah [3]t...@tobiah.org wrote: On 01/27/2015 01:06 PM, Omer Katzir wrote: Not permanently, just for one night. Which option do you think will be the best? Using a mic didn't worked out with my guitar (performing in the same place, same setting, only with lute this time) I predict that the pickup that you linked to is going to sound 'tinny', emphasizing the midrange and sounding something like playing over the telephone. What was it about the microphone that didn't work out for you in the past?A Was it feedback problems?A You will want to use a decent cardioid condenser rather close to the instrument. I can't imagine an omni or dynamic mic doing the job, but a good condenser is the best I've found for classical guitar where natural sound is the goal. If feedback is the problem you could try mixing the mic with a contact pickup for some of the best of both worlds. Tobiah I have an option to buy those pickups with a clip, but I'm not sure they'll work. (link attached) Ideas are recommendations are welcome. [4]http://www.music-center.co.il/p/1125/%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A7-%D7%90%D7 %A4-%D7%9C%D7%A7%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%AA-power-beat-pu-35 To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.fishman.com/products/filter/type:pickups 2. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Itemcategory8item$039 3. mailto:t...@tobiah.org 4. http://www.music-center.co.il/p/1125/%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A7-%D7%90%D7%A4-%D7%9C%D7%A7%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%AA-power-beat-pu-35 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning
Thanks Martyn and Martin, The physics is very interesting. The issue of downbearing seems to play less of a role than in other instruments. It is very important in pianos, which I tune and repair. (There is side-bearing at play here also.) It is also a factor in banjos, which I play. On banjos with adjustable tailpieces more downbearing gives a louder but shorter sustained tone while minimal downbearing does the opposite. Is it plausable to assume that the same effect might be found in other string instruments where the strings are attached to a hitch-pin then float over the bridge? (i.e. Violin family, Arch-top Guitar ... ) I have found that, on my steel-string guitars with bridge pins, (i.e. Martin D18 etc.) a higher saddle (thus more downbearing?) creates a similar result. (It also throws off intonation!) Thanks again for these great explanations! Tom Date sent: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 12:02:34 +0100 To: Lute Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Send reply to: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Subject:[LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Sent: Friday, 1 August 2014, 10:40 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning Dear Martin, Thanks for this. I mentioned string slide in the context of modern guitar bridges with a straight top to the saddle (ie no notches). The notches on the nut of a lute (and modern guitar) avoid the problem of such slide (provided they're not made too wide of course). As you'll know, citterns (like some modern guitars) do generally have a 'zero' fret just before the nut but since the maximum amplitude of the pluck is at closer to the bridge end the displacement (slide) at the nut is minimal. regards Martyn _ _ From: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Friday, 1 August 2014, 8:11 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning Dear Martyn, Thanks for this clear explanation. It seems there must be a tradeoff between bridge height and mass, in the sense that a higher bridge would presumably increase the volume of sound but the greater mass would decrease it. I've often wondered about the issue of bridge flexibility, entertaining suspicions that a bridge which is too stiff may have a damping effect, but this is only intuitive. I'm interested that you raise the issue of string slide - it occurs to me that this can't happen at the nut on a lute because of the extreme angle of the pegbox, but could happen on baroque guitar/vihuela nuts and theorbo lower nuts? Best wishes, Martin On 01/08/2014 08:29, Martyn Hodgson wrote: In fact both lute and guitar bridges function in the same way. In short, a horizontal force (imposed by the string) is momentarily increased when the string is displaced (plucked); this in turn increases the turning moment of the bridge (ie force x height of string above belly at take-off point) which in turn causes the belly to vibrate with mostly a wave action (tho' some vertical pumping action too) and thus amplifying the sound by varying the air pressure within the soundbox. Whether the vibrating string leads from a loop (lute) or from over a saddle (later guitars) is immaterial - it is the height of the string at take-off which is relevant. Vibration patterns have, in fact, been studied: eg the Galpin Society Journal (Hellwig I recall) which contains relevant papers. Differences in timbre between instruments may well be due to many other factors rather than the way the physics of the bridge works, including: mass of bridge (size and density), surface area of base of bridge, stiffness of bridge, barring, internal shape of soundbox and its volume, etc. An illustrative example: many years ago I made a 5 course guitar after Sellas and fitted an ebony bridge (thinking the original had one). The sound was quiet and muffled (tho' with considerable sustain). I had a rethink and after further investigation decided to remove it and fit a fruitwood (actually pear) black stained bridge to precisely the same design: the resulting sound was considerably freer and increased the output ie volume. In fact the much greater mass of the ebony bridge was acting as a considerable dampener requiring more of the vibrational energy of the string to set it in motion than that of the fruitwood bridge which had a mass less than half that of the ebony. On the other hand, the ebony bridge's greater mass meant
[LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning
Thanks Bruno! So far, yours is the only response. I hope to hear some more also : ) Tom Date sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:57:28 -0300 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com Subject:[LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning Very nice question! Hope to hear some responses on this topic. 2014-07-26 11:20 GMT-03:00 [1]t...@heartistrymusic.com: Dear List, A I have always assumed that a lute bridge moves / vibrates in a different manner than a guitar bridge, and that this, plus the bracing, etc. mainly account for the difference in timbre between the two different instruments - that the strings of a lute exert force in a plane parallel to the belly, while the saddle of a guitar bridge creates downbearing or force perpendicular to the belly, causing more of a rocking motion. A Following this line of reasoning anything on top of a lute bridge would be primarily decorative. A But - could a luthier angle the string holes in a lute bridge at about 30 degrees to create a downbearing-like function? A Would that have any positive or negative impact on lute tone or projection? A Am I correct in this assumption, or way out in left field? BTW, has anybody done vibration pattern imaging on lute bellies similar to the what has been done in violin research? A Looking forward to your responses, A A Thanks, Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [2]http://www.heartistry.com Date sent: A A A A A A A Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:27:26 +0200 To: A A A A A A A A A A [3]lute-cs.dartmouth.edu [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: A A A A A A A A A Anthony Hind [5]agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: A A A A A A A A [LUTE] Re: Lute bridge Dear Bruno Looking at the instruments of the CitA(c) de la Musique seems to show that ivory or bone on the bridge goes together with the same decorations on the fingerboard and elsewhere, [6]http://tinyurl.com/nlvpy32 Thus unlikely to be acoustic in intention. Regards Anthony Sent from my iPhone On 26 juil. 2014, at 00:32, Bruno Correia [7]bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Daniel, This thin slice of bone is precisely what I was referring to. I'm sure you have seen many lutes with these cap. All the best. 2014-07-25 18:44 GMT-03:00 Dan Winheld [1][8]dwinh...@lmi.net: A Never had a bone on any of my lute bridges (except the guitar A saddle bone on my first guitary-semi-lute). I have never seen a A bone on any lute bridge either. A thin slice of bone, ivory, or A hard wood seems like a good idea to limit string wear on the top A edges of a bridge, so long as it does not increase mass to the A extent of degrading the sound. Of course, as a player not a A luthier I'm sure I haven't all the lutes out there. Maybe some A Tielke extravaganza has bone or ivory bridge decoration. What A particular lutes have you seen with this feature? Any pictures? A Dan -- Bruno Figueiredo A Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:[9]dwinh...@lmi.net To get on or off this list see list information at [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [11]http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 A 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI A 54806 [12]715-682-9362 -- Bruno Figueiredo A Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:t...@heartistrymusic.com 2. http://www.heartistry.com/ 3. http://lute-cs.dartmouth.edu/ 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://tinyurl.com/nlvpy32 7. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 8. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 9. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 12. tel:715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Lute Bridge vs Guitar Bridge Functioning
Dear List, I have always assumed that a lute bridge moves / vibrates in a different manner than a guitar bridge, and that this, plus the bracing, etc. mainly account for the difference in timbre between the two different instruments - that the strings of a lute exert force in a plane parallel to the belly, while the saddle of a guitar bridge creates downbearing or force perpendicular to the belly, causing more of a rocking motion. Following this line of reasoning anything on top of a lute bridge would be primarily decorative. But - could a luthier angle the string holes in a lute bridge at about 30 degrees to create a downbearing-like function? Would that have any positive or negative impact on lute tone or projection? Am I correct in this assumption, or way out in left field? BTW, has anybody done vibration pattern imaging on lute bellies similar to the what has been done in violin research? Looking forward to your responses, Thanks, Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com Date sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:27:26 +0200 To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject:[LUTE] Re: Lute bridge Dear Bruno Looking at the instruments of the Cité de la Musique seems to show that ivory or bone on the bridge goes together with the same decorations on the fingerboard and elsewhere, http://tinyurl.com/nlvpy32 Thus unlikely to be acoustic in intention. Regards Anthony Sent from my iPhone On 26 juil. 2014, at 00:32, Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Daniel, This thin slice of bone is precisely what I was referring to. I'm sure you have seen many lutes with these cap. All the best. 2014-07-25 18:44 GMT-03:00 Dan Winheld [1]dwinh...@lmi.net: Never had a bone on any of my lute bridges (except the guitar saddle bone on my first guitary-semi-lute). I have never seen a bone on any lute bridge either. A thin slice of bone, ivory, or hard wood seems like a good idea to limit string wear on the top edges of a bridge, so long as it does not increase mass to the extent of degrading the sound. Of course, as a player not a luthier I'm sure I haven't all the lutes out there. Maybe some Tielke extravaganza has bone or ivory bridge decoration. What particular lutes have you seen with this feature? Any pictures? Dan -- Bruno Figueiredo A Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba. Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Hieronymus Bosch's Ass Music
Whodathunkit?!! Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com Sent from my iPhone 715-682-9362 On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Franz Mechsner franz.mechs...@gmx.de wrote: Maybe of (some) interest...:-) [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3SunLc8zU Hieronymus Bosch's Ass Music from The Garden of Earthly Delights References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3SunLc8zU To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: How to cut fret shims.
Wow! Somehow, I feel a lot better now! Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com Sent from my iPhone 715-682-9362 On Feb 9, 2014, at 9:44 PM, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate changing frets with an abhorrence that defies all reason. My wife knows to get out of the house as fast as possible when she sees me getting out a new set of frets, because she's learned that a few moments later a flurry of frothy-mouthed, red-faced, apoplectic cursing will ensue. I've just never been able to get the hang of fretting. After years of putting frets on multiple instruments, I still usually need to put on every fret two or more times. As I repeatedly clip off unsatisfactory attempts and try again, I watch my supply of available fret gut slowly dwindling and begin to feel a little like James Bond in that scene in Goldfinger when the laser beam is inching up slowly between his legs. (Do you expect me to settle for buzzing notes!? I ask Gutfinger defiantly. No, Mr Wilke, responds Gutfinger with a surplus of glee, I expect you to cancel your concerts because you won't be able to practice properly for weeks without that missing 6th fret gauge you ineptly used up due to your utter incompetence in the Most Skillful Art of Frettery!!! Wow. That was dramatic.) In the I end content myself with frets that bow, sag and wiggle under my fingers like earthworms. I shim even the new ones, but still end up buzzing like a bee and dealing with surprise temperaments. Yes, I know. I'm pathetic. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com On Sun, 2/9/14, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: How to cut fret shims. To: alexander voka...@verizon.net, Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, February 9, 2014, 6:35 PM I could whittle with a utility knife, but that would be wasteful and time consuming. I find that a surgical saw, something like what one can find even on Amazon (Satterlee Bone Saw 13) is an ideal tool. A very thin blade with sharp teeth. Just make sure you do not cut yourself in the process... It is actually ideal for many uses with wood, bone and plastics. Guys, Why would either of you go to all that bother, rather than merely replacing the fret? Of course, an emergency situation (5 minutes before show time, during rehearsal, or stuck out somewhere beyond easy reach of the postal service no spare gut) is another story. I could remove replace 10 gut frets in the time it would take you to whittle a single proper shim out of a 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch by 10 inches ( 1cm x 1cm x 20cm) piece of anything. That is, single frets. The more traditional doubles (still routinely used by the viol players) would take a little more time. Fret changing is not hard at all, once you've done a few and get into the rhythm of it. Soon you will be getting them so tight that you will have to back off to keep from breaking the thinner ones, and even that big, bad 1st fret will only take the slightest more aggression to make as tight as necessary. Thomas Mace has a pretty good tutorial on frets, as I remember. So does Dan Larson on his website, and no doubt there are others easily available. Catch me at the right time I'll do it for you, and show you how. A cigarette lighter, fingernail clippers, and maybe (strictly optional) a small pliers for the 1st fret. The business with the surgical saw is what I paid a professional luthier to do recently when I had bone body frets put on my lute- frets 10 up. He messed up my 9th 8th frets leveling the new bone frets, and it took me 3 minutes or less to replace them practically under his nose in the shop. Happy fretting! (It almost gets fun) Dan I could whittle with a utility knife, butthat would be wasteful and time consuming. alexander r. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mace
This thread reminds me of what my music theory professor once told me about composition: If it sounds good, it's good. Given that no two lutes and no two lutenists are the same, it is entirely possible that what works for one player on their instrument may not work for a different player on their instrument. Plus, there is the difference between playing for yourself or family in a small room, and trying to be heard solo or amongst other instruments in a large space. As Mace says, one may have to sacrifice sweetness for projection - nails and plectra probably producing more high frequencies and white noise which carry farther, provide articulation, and are more easily heard. There is also the matter of personal taste: what sounds good to me may not sound good to another. There can be more than one correct way to do anything. One person's trash is another's treasure. Personally, I am always my own worst critic and am still working on getting results that please me on my lute instead of hellish, jarring sounds. Thanks everybody for all of your insights. It's good to be able to learn form others' knowledge and experience. All the best, Tom Date sent: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 15:10:03 + From: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu However, once again, Mace offers this advice in acknowledging the antecedent: strike . . . your strings with your nails, as some do, who maintain it the best way to play. Mace's implication is that nail play was also commonplace and that tastes on this topic varied. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Correia Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:40 PM To: List LUTELIST Subject: [LUTE] Mace The reason, why the nails are not so good to draw sounds with, as the flesh. But on doing of this, take notice, that you strike not your strings with your nails, as some do, who maintain it the best way to play, but I do not; and for this reason; because the nail cannot draw so sweet a sound from a lute, as the nibble end of the flesh can do. I confess in a consort, it might do well enough, where the mellowness (which is the most excellent satisfaction from a lute) is lost in the crowd; but alone, I could never receive so good content from the nail, as from the flesh; (however, this being my opinion) let others do, what seems best to themselves. Thomas Mace (London, 1676). Pretty good advice from the English master. -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
With Viagra he may have had more! Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com Sent from my iPhone 715-682-9362 On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:36 PM, Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote: Well, with our lifestyle they wouldn't have produced any lute music at all. With a big screen tv and an internet connection, Bach would have had far less kids around too... 2013/12/10 [1]guitarandl...@earthlink.net I like nails, the sound of nails. I like nylon strings. Who knows what they would have used if they had modern strings, 600 sandpaper, and diamond files, not to mention super glue. I always think the point is to make pleasing music and have fun. It doesn't matter to me how anyone plays. Do what makes you happy and have fun. Allan -Original Message- From: Mayes, Joseph [2]ma...@rowan.edu Sent: Dec 10, 2013 11:23 AM To: Bruno Correia [3]bruno.l...@gmail.com, List LUTELIST [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed I play the lute, archlute and vihuela with nails for the same reason that I play the classical guitar with nails: because it sounds better! Of course, by that I mean it sounds better to me. Nails give the attack a precision that flesh does not. It also comes closer, IMHO to the sound usually described in historical sources as desirable on lute - silvery, tinkling, etc. Many sources tell us not to use nails - which they wouldn't have bothered to do if people were not doing it that way. I don't play with flesh, I don't ride my horse to the gig, and I don't attend any bear-bating. My $.02 Joseph mayes On 12/10/13 11:05 AM, Bruno Correia [5]bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote: Here we go again with the nails issue. There are many sources describing the use of flesh as the best way to sound upon the lute, however, the use of nails was certainly a possibility. But only because three cats used it doesn't mean it was the general taste of those times. Just because Jimi Hendrix played with his teeth doesn't mean that everyone does it today. I could only justify the nails if I still played the classical guitar, otherwise what benefit would it bring? 2013/12/10 Martin Shepherd [1][6]mar...@luteshop.co.uk Well, there's Piccinini, who recommends playing with nails, and Mace, who says that some people do it and think it's the best way, but he says it might be OK in an ensemble but doesn't like it for solo playing. There may be others - Weiss? Vihuela references? I'm sure others can help. Martin -- References 1. mailto:[7]mar...@luteshop.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:guitarandl...@earthlink.net 2. mailto:ma...@rowan.edu 3. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 6. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 7. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 2A, lutes noise, what is possible, what isn't
Thanks David for sharing these insights with us. Having just manufactured a CD with lute recording on it, I really appreciate all that you are saying here. I think I got lucky and made a good recording, at least I'm very happy with it. A few noises here and there, but overall very clean. Looking forward to the next installment of your article. Thanks again, Tom http://www.heartistry.com/artists_tom.html Part 2: noise. Rest assured dear reader, that I have done my Maths. You will find many opinions on sample rates, and presumably for all the rest of these posts, and that is a good thing. Part 2A: noise. noisy lutes. too much noise, Dude. If you listen to a few hundred lute recordings, you will see that almost all of them are too noisy. This post will talk briefly about the noise from the lute, and how to make your recordings less noisy. The other parts of this post will go into the noise that comes from microphones and other parts of the recording process. [sidebar: the reason we are working backwards is because we need to arrive at the result--no amount of theory will be good unless the result is good, and science can only help for part of the task] Lute recording noise has several components. There is the noise from the recording gear, the noise from the lute, the noise from the player, and the noise from outside. In dealing with the noise, we must make a musical, interesting recording. It is not enough to simply remove the noise. And here, we must, again working backwards from the nice, low-noise musical recording, start with the lute. In starting with the lute it is important to understand what can be fixed right now, what can be fixed in the next few years, and figuring out what the recording is for. In the previous post, I talk about how the traditional sample rate is not ideal for the new marketing and aesthetic considerations of the internet, and down the line we will see how that connects to video. But first, we have to separate out the sounds that the lute makes that are problematic for noise. And here, the considerations are technique, stringing, and the setup. There are three parts to the lute as far as noise: setup, paired string technique, and tone. As long as the player can play every note in a composition, even one note at a time, it is possible to assemble those notes into an edited sequence. So there really is very little difference between a highly skilled player and one who isn't, as far as the notes are concerned. But the real difference is the tone and the noise. The highly skilled player has figured out how to strike the string and set up the lute. So the first key here is that the lute must be set up properly to make a beautiful sound, and, once it is set up, the players must learn the simple method of striking the paired strings so that they vibrate together, and then the player must be able to produce a sequence of good tones. Obviously, there is more to playing the lute, this is just about the recording. NB: The fact is, unless these three criteria are met, no microphone, no Zoom, no gear, no reverb or anything else will remove the noise and make a good recording. You could buy a truckload of zooms and they would all sound pretty much the same (but not exactly the same). It would be a complete waste of time. And, unless the lute is set up properly, the player will only be able to progress to certain point, but that's a subject for another day. You can easily reduce the amount of noise your instrument makes. Using pairs of strings under controlled conditions, it is possible to measure interference patterns that the strings create. It turns out that the strings must be in a certain phase relationship to make a good sound. You can see this phase with a high speed camera, and you can measure, in different ways, what happens when the pairs vibrate. That's not to say you can quantify a good sound, but most lute players know intuitively when the pair of strings seems to just pop out of the lute. That's when they are in phase, and that's why double strings are seriously cool. So step one is to get the setup right, and learn how to hit both strings so they vibrate together--the majority of players will hit one of the pairs before the other. If the strings are struck in sequence, instead of together, they clash, they interfere with each other. If the spacing and the setup is not right, it won't work. Most lutes simply have too little space between the pairs, or too much space. A narrow, roughly parallel pair can vibrate in phase, as well as a pair that is for example about 5.2 mm wide at the bridge. Most lutes fall in between these two workable dimensions, and they clash. Unless the strings can vibrate as pairs, the recording will always be noisy
[LUTE] Re: My tiny little Hendrix ...
.. just in case there is any interest, my just a tiny little modest try in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFN2nc9B0lcfeature=youtu.be best, Arto Well ... obviously not HIP ... but i like it anyway! How about Renard-like Lady? T Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] New Christmas CD
Hello Luters, I'm very excited to announce the release of my latest CD, seasonal music with Renaissance Lute, Celtic Harp, Hammered Dulcimer and more. This is NOT HIP!Rather, it is Folk / Early Music crossover. If you like(ed) John Renbourn's The Lady and the Unicorn or some of Pentangle's recordings, I think you'll appreciate what we've done. I'm very critical of my own recordings, and I'm very happy with this one. I'd love to hear your comments, warts and all. You can hear sound samples here: http://www.heartistry.com/catalog_season.html Compliments of the season early, and All the best, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments
From: Mayes, Joseph ma...@rowan.edu Subject:RE: [LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Well...as long as you used authentic 16th Century hair-ties I just went with my gut feeling ... :) Tom Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Hello All, and thanks for this discussion. I have an 8 course Renaissance lute which I recently used to play and record a piece a whole step higher. Instead of arduously fingered transposing, I strapped a nickel-silver section of a candle holder across the fingerboard at the 2nd fret with thick hair ties. This is no joke - it worked quite well. While it probably would have been better to acquire an instrument designed to be pitched higher, I don't have that kind of expendable income, so I improvised. A 1/4 x 5 or 6 machine screw with a solid shaft would probably work just as well. All the best, Tom From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net Subject:[LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Another good point- the only lute for which I built my own capo (pain in the butt piece of fussy work) was a 72 cm SL Division bass lute that worked very well as an E lute (a-415 or 440) with a generous 10 fret neck, and narrow-ish sloping shoulders at the neck-body joint. But, in order to work, required equal tempered frets. Great instrument for accompaniment as well as a substantial amount of solo work. But a 58 - 62 cm SL, 8-fret neck tenor lute with meantone fretting? forget the damn capo! Dan On 9/25/2013 4:13 PM, R. Mattes wrote: He makes the point that they did it in this way because the vihuela had only 10 frets and a capo on the fingerboard would have reduced this to 9. and lutes only had 7 or 8 frets ... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Capos and Lutes
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com Subject:[LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Tom, Nice thinking. On a recording, I doubt few, if any people would notice that you capo-ized. Just to keep your early music street cred, be sure to make up data for your new lute on the liner notes, i.e. alto lute after Gerlenbrucher by S. Kubrick, 2001. ;-)Chris I like it, Chris. So let it be written ... so let it be done! I have been working non-stop for the past three days on final mixes and mastering for the recording it's on - a new Christmas CD with Celtic Harp, Lute, Hammered Dulcimer, Voice, Recorders, Guitars ... Ancient songs and two original instrumentals. Sort of folk - early music crossover. http://www.heartistry.com/xmas.html It's titled Season of Delight, and we're doing a series of concerts in our area in November and December. I used the capo on The Bird Carol. Thanks, Tom On Fri, 10/11/13, t...@heartistrymusic.com t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net Cc: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Gary R. Boye boy...@appstate.edu, Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, October 11, 2013, 12:08 AM Hello All, and thanks for this discussion. I have an 8 course Renaissance lute which I recently used to play and record a piece a whole step higher. Instead of arduously fingered transposing, I strapped a nickel-silver section of a candle holder across the fingerboard at the 2nd fret with thick hair ties. This is no joke - it worked quite well. While it probably would have been better to acquire an instrument designed to be pitched higher, I don't have that kind of expendable income, so I improvised. A 1/4 x 5 or 6 machine screw with a solid shaft would probably work just as well. All the best, Tom From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Another good point- the only lute for which I built my own capo (pain in the butt piece of fussy work) was a 72 cm SL Division bass lute that worked very well as an E lute (a-415 or 440) with a generous 10 fret neck, and narrow-ish sloping shoulders at the neck-body joint. But, in order to work, required equal tempered frets. Great instrument for accompaniment as well as a substantial amount of solo work. But a 58 - 62 cm SL, 8-fret neck tenor lute with meantone fretting? forget the damn capo! Dan On 9/25/2013 4:13 PM, R. Mattes wrote: He makes the point that they did it in this way because the vihuela had only 10 frets and a capo on the fingerboard would have reduced this to 9. and lutes only had 7 or 8 frets ... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] help on tuning
I posted this to the lutening group but thought it wouldn't hurt to try here, also. Hello everyone, I have what is probably a newbie question. I am unable to tune the 5th, 6th, and to a lesser degree the 7th and 8th courses to my satisfaction. When tuned so that the octaves have no beats between the two strings, the strings are out of tune when fretted. The octave course is invariably sharp, or at least sharp enough to drive me batty (although there are those who would argue that it's a drive...more like a putt). My ears are pretty good to within 5 cents of a tone. I've tried lowering the fundamental by a few cents, but it doesn't seem to help until the the two strings of a course are out of tune when open. Help!!! (please) -- Sincerely, Tom -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re;: help on tuning
Thanks for the suggestions. Here is the info David asked me to include: The strings are about a week old NNG52 - 8 course lute 5th octave c' NNG100 - 8 course lute 5th c NNG68 - 8 course lute 6th octave g KFG121 - 8 course lute 6th G NNG76 - 8 course lute 7th octave f KFG132 - 8 course lute 7th F NNG88 - 8 course lute 8th octave d KFG160 - 8 course lute 8th D As you can see, the srings are either New Nylgut and KFG -- Sincerely, Tom -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: help on tuning
David, I forgot to mention the lute is 63 cm. Thanks for your suggestions. I have had Chris at [1]catlines.com help calculate the tensions, but as I've only had a lute for 3 months, the tension is a bit of a mystery at this time. -- Sincerely, Tom -- References 1. http://catlines.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments
Hello All, and thanks for this discussion. I have an 8 course Renaissance lute which I recently used to play and record a piece a whole step higher. Instead of arduously fingered transposing, I strapped a nickel-silver section of a candle holder across the fingerboard at the 2nd fret with thick hair ties. This is no joke - it worked quite well. While it probably would have been better to acquire an instrument designed to be pitched higher, I don't have that kind of expendable income, so I improvised. A 1/4 x 5 or 6 machine screw with a solid shaft would probably work just as well. All the best, Tom From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net Subject:[LUTE] Re: Capo use on early instruments Another good point- the only lute for which I built my own capo (pain in the butt piece of fussy work) was a 72 cm SL Division bass lute that worked very well as an E lute (a-415 or 440) with a generous 10 fret neck, and narrow-ish sloping shoulders at the neck-body joint. But, in order to work, required equal tempered frets. Great instrument for accompaniment as well as a substantial amount of solo work. But a 58 - 62 cm SL, 8-fret neck tenor lute with meantone fretting? forget the damn capo! Dan On 9/25/2013 4:13 PM, R. Mattes wrote: He makes the point that they did it in this way because the vihuela had only 10 frets and a capo on the fingerboard would have reduced this to 9. and lutes only had 7 or 8 frets ... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: strategies to acquire more general public Lute awareness
Thanks Ernesto, I think you just organized it! At least, it's a good start. I'll see what I can do with these ideas soon, but won't have any time 'til next week. I'll re-visit it then. Thanks again, Tom I agree to the out-reach being needed. Would someone organize the thread-suggested strategies? The thread has put forth: Playing in town outskirts to raise attendance for a central concert. Doing house concerts with CD sales. Using internet and e-mail tools such as fanbridge. Joining period-interested people and their activities (role-playing-, theater, food and other events). Calling concert series organizers and agents. Selling CDs, DVDs, (and why not t-shirts and books) whenever you play somewhere. All these are common tools and ways to make one's music heard, and are based on hard work and organic growth. Nothing new under the sun, then? Ernesto Ett 11-99 242120 4 11-28376692 On 12.08.2013, at 22:30, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: The lute world needs to reach out to the non-traditional audience. Thanks Stephen. I agree. Tom [Stephen] There is an interesting book by Phyllis Tickle entitled The Great Emergence. It deals with modern Christianity and how it is evolving. I think her main theme applies to the lute world as well. The 'traditionalist' or 'fundamentalist' lute group will decline, and a rise of a 'hybrid' (Phyllis had another term for this, but I've forgotten what it was) lute group will occur. If not, the lute will slowly fade away. The lute world needs to reach out to the non-traditional audience. The SCA and the followers of Sting are a prime resource that should be cultivated and encouraged. For What It's Worth The Other Stephen Stubbs Champaign, IL USA Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer, and Inventor. 1706-1790) -Original Message- [Tom] Are we trying creatively to increase general audience for lute music here, or are we practicing exclusivity? I'm looking at SCA and Ren Faires solely as a group of potential music buyers. Why not encourage the interest and point it in the right direction? Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists_tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
The lute world needs to reach out to the non-traditional audience. Thanks Stephen. I agree. Tom [Stephen] There is an interesting book by Phyllis Tickle entitled The Great Emergence. It deals with modern Christianity and how it is evolving. I think her main theme applies to the lute world as well. The 'traditionalist' or 'fundamentalist' lute group will decline, and a rise of a 'hybrid' (Phyllis had another term for this, but I've forgotten what it was) lute group will occur. If not, the lute will slowly fade away. The lute world needs to reach out to the non-traditional audience. The SCA and the followers of Sting are a prime resource that should be cultivated and encouraged. For What It's Worth The Other Stephen Stubbs Champaign, IL USA Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer, and Inventor. 1706-1790) -Original Message- [Tom] Are we trying creatively to increase general audience for lute music here, or are we practicing exclusivity? I'm looking at SCA and Ren Faires solely as a group of potential music buyers. Why not encourage the interest and point it in the right direction? Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Thanks for these insights Chris. Well said, and I understand where these ideas come from. I'm just saying that pie makers aren't picky about who buys and eats their wares. They are probably happy for anybody to buy and consume their pies. And a lot of those pie consumers may not have the faintest idea how to make a good pie, and the pie makers probably don't want them to bother trying to make a pie correctly. Still, it benefits the pie makers to have these people buying and consuming their pies. Tom Tom, I am by no means opposed to the idea of reaching out to other groups, but I have to say I am very skeptical about the SCA. By including the word anachronism in the title of the organization, they say quite openly that they are all about intentional historical inaccuracy. Meanwhile, we are about being historically informed. Despite some (very) superficial similarities, then, our groups are really after two diametrically opposed goals. Then there's the double issue of the word Creative in their name. Lordy, we've got people expostulating on the size of the proper theorbo, what stringing one is permitted to use on a baroque guitar, and how all competent musicians must be able to sight read plainchant neumes backwards and upside down on the tromba marina while transposing accurately by within 2 cents and simultaneously gargling the contra tenor from the Sanctus of DuFay's Missa L'homme Arme in augmentation. So, in other words, creativity is most unwelcome here. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com On Sun, 8/11/13, t...@heartistrymusic.com t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, August 11, 2013, 11:58 AM NYC Medieval Festival at Fort Tryon was originally run by the history department of Hunter College of CUNY, very nicely too. Until SCA took over.. RT Are we trying creatively to increase general audience for lute music here, or are we practicing exclusivity? I'm looking at SCA and Ren Faires solely as a group of potential music buyers. Why not encourage the interest and point it in the right direction? Tom On 8/11/2013 11:08 AM, Geoff Gaherty wrote: On 11/08/13 9:41 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: My main point is that true historical re-enactment is not fantasy, but a desire to generate public awareness of our great heritage. For a number of years, I was music director for Poculi Ludiquae Societas, the medieval drama society at the University of Toronto's Institute of Medieval Studies during the 1980s: http://groups.chass.utoronto.ca/plspls/ We were committed to meticulous historical research as well as lively performances. My job was to select music appropriate to the time and culture of the plays being performed, and to provide suitable musicians to perform it. We worked in very close association with the professional early music performers in Toronto, to everyone's mutual benefit. We used to cringe whenever anyone mentioned the Society for Creative Anachronism! Geoff To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
If we want more audience we need to be inclusive and not exclusive... Very well said David. I too remember Julian Bream as an early introduction ... For me it was walking into a record store just before my senior year in college and finding Musik fur 2 3 Lauten. Archiv Produktion - 2533 323 I now know that modern lutenists don't like Ragossnig's playing with nails, but I still think it's a fine album. As someone said in an earlier comment about Bream, the artistry and musical content were there. It also featured Juergen Huebscher and Dieter Kirsch as ensemble partners. Wonderful music! Tom If we want more audience we need to be inclusive and not exclusive. A number of comments on this thread appear exclusive; almost a parody of the attitude that has been attributed to main stream classical musicians. Stephen, I heartily agree with your comments. The lute community is and will continue to evolve. The challenge is to embrace people with wide variety of interest and background while continuing to explore and disseminate what was. I too remember Julian Bream as an early introduction and seeing my first lute in college. I joined the collegium and within 2 years had built my first lute. David Sent from my iPhone On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:24 AM, Stephen Stubbs fartrea...@gmail.com wrote: [Stephen] There is an interesting book by Phyllis Tickle entitled The Great Emergence. It deals with modern Christianity and how it is evolving. I think her main theme applies to the lute world as well. The 'traditionalist' or 'fundamentalist' lute group will decline, and a rise of a 'hybrid' (Phyllis had another term for this, but I've forgotten what it was) lute group will occur. If not, the lute will slowly fade away. The lute world needs to reach out to the non-traditional audience. The SCA and the followers of Sting are a prime resource that should be cultivated and encouraged. For What It's Worth The Other Stephen Stubbs Champaign, IL USA Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer, and Inventor. 1706-1790) -Original Message- [Tom] Are we trying creatively to increase general audience for lute music here, or are we practicing exclusivity? I'm looking at SCA and Ren Faires solely as a group of potential music buyers. Why not encourage the interest and point it in the right direction? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Thanks for these comments. I didn't mean to infer that reenactors are playing like children. Yes - they have a genuine interest in the history. Some even go a little overboard - I met one Civil War reenactor who felt he was more historically accurate than others because he actually had fleas. BTW - I am the guitarist on several recording projects of Civil War era music. One is The Civil War Collection (volume 1) by Jim Taylor. http://www.amazon.com/music/dp/B05C28 The other is Unsung Stories of the Civil War by Bruce Burnside. http://www.amazon.com/Bruce-Burnsides-Unsung-Stories-Civil/dp/B000V6MF4C http://bruceburnside.com/civil-war.html Tom OK - I'll agree that a lot of folks who get into SCA and go to Renaissance Festivals have a very non-HIP viewpoint on what it's all about. For them it's basically play-acting, in the same way as those who attend Civil War Re-enactments, or Rendezvous Re-enactments. It creates for them warm-fuzzy feelings and an escape from every day hum-drum. BUT - I think these are people whose hearts are in the right place, and who could be enticed to concerts, and who could be willing open books to learn what life and music REALLY was like. And they spend money like fiends! I may have missed some of this thread but this comment deserves some correction. I have looked at the SCA website in the past and had simmilar views that participants have a non HIP viewpoint and dress up to have a 'warm fuzzy-feeling' was another comment. It looked closer to Disney fantasy than any historical facts. The American Civil War on the other hand, should be spot-on having taken place on American soil and, having many written records, as well as photographs enabling true re-enactments to take place. Here in the UK, I have taken part in English Civil War re-enactments with a group that researches the local history of every place we went. This enables a fair portrayal of events as an educational as well as entertaining spectacle. We did not see it as dressing-up and playing like children. The only way anyone can educate, is by studying the many books on the period (350 years ago). Paintings, woodcuts, models etc. etc. to enable every piece of clothing to be made as accurately as possible. Natural materials only and hand-sewn during the winter months, The men fashion artefacts in wood, pottery and metals in readiness for the next season. Nothing modern must be visible. (Wristwatches, spectacles etc.)even foodstuff that was not authentic to the period. We have known people to live 17thC all year round. But most are regular people with a keen interest on 17thC history. They study and learn, even the language of the time, attend plays and concerts, museums etc. For most, it is not about dressing-up, but dressing-down. Yes, it is escapism from the hum-drum of life. My main point is that true historical re-enactment is not fantasy, but a desire to generate public awareness of our great heritage. - and spend money with friends in order to do so! Ron (UK) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
NYC Medieval Festival at Fort Tryon was originally run by the history department of Hunter College of CUNY, very nicely too. Until SCA took over.. RT Are we trying creatively to increase general audience for lute music here, or are we practicing exclusivity? I'm looking at SCA and Ren Faires solely as a group of potential music buyers. Why not encourage the interest and point it in the right direction? Tom On 8/11/2013 11:08 AM, Geoff Gaherty wrote: On 11/08/13 9:41 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: My main point is that true historical re-enactment is not fantasy, but a desire to generate public awareness of our great heritage. For a number of years, I was music director for Poculi Ludiquae Societas, the medieval drama society at the University of Toronto's Institute of Medieval Studies during the 1980s: http://groups.chass.utoronto.ca/plspls/ We were committed to meticulous historical research as well as lively performances. My job was to select music appropriate to the time and culture of the plays being performed, and to provide suitable musicians to perform it. We worked in very close association with the professional early music performers in Toronto, to everyone's mutual benefit. We used to cringe whenever anyone mentioned the Society for Creative Anachronism! Geoff To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
. .. nebulous middle between amateur and big-name status. I have turned down offers simply because the fee wouldn't ... the Names make ... exponentially more than what I get offered. I wish these organizations might budget for something between their legitimate and no name fees that would make touring at least feasible for people who have not reached the top tier yet. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke This is a problem for non-classical performers as well. A venue in my neighborhood that routinely hires very expensive big names had tha gall to ask me and one of my performance groups to play for $50 each. And this was for a statewide radio broadcast on Public Radio. Insulting. One is never appreciated on their home turf, unless you have already achieved the big-name recognition. A good strategy is to set a rock-bottom fee that you will not compromise. Use that as a negotiation point. If they won't pay what you feel you're worth, it's their loss. Play for nothing and be treated like nothing. Play for a king's sum, and get treated like a king. Tom _ _ From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 9, 2013 6:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness The point I am making about fees is that any society around here at that time (Dundee, Scotland, 1980) has a fixed budget for performers. The usual practice (even now, I believe) is to use local amateur performers to fill most of the slots at minimal expense so that the money can be husbanded to pay for a few big names, each year, who usually have to travel a considerable distance (from London, for example) to perform. As for equal fees, I think not - Is Bill Samson worth as much as Nigel North for a gig of equal duration? Of course not. The annual budget is fixed, so the bulk of it should go to the best performers. Do support bands earn as much as headline bands . . .? I think you'll agree that this is quite different from selling a photograph for publication (which I have also done) at the standard rate set by the publisher. As with your own situation, there were no professional early musicians living nearby who's gigs we were stealing - Even so, the fun was the thing, and if by saving money the organisers were able to attract somebody really outstanding at another time in the season, so much the better for all concerned. Bill From: Geoff Gaherty [1]ge...@gaherty.ca To: William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Friday, 9 August 2013, 22:53 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness On 09/08/13 4:55 PM, William Samson wrote: As amateurs we only accepted travelling expenses and any hospitality that was on offer, but we politely declined any fee. I am of the opinion that for an amateur musician accept a fee is to take what is due to those who depend on performing fees to make a living. As well as being an amateur lutenist, I am also an amateur photographer. One of my photography teachers made the point that anyone who sells a photograph for publication, amateur or professional, should expect the same fee. By allowing our photographs to sell for less, we are undercutting the professionals, and depriving them of a livelihood. If it's good enough to publish, it's worth the same fee, no matter who took it. I myself do a lot of performing for free, but I do it because it's fun. Besides, there are no professional early musicians in my community, so I'm not stealing anyone's gigs, and I am (hopefully) increasing the audience for early music. Geoff -- Geoff Gaherty Foxmead Observatory Coldwater, Ontario, Canada [1][3]http://www.gaherty.ca/ [2][4]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ -- References 1. [5]http://www.gaherty.ca/ 2. [6]http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:ge...@gaherty.ca 2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 3. http://www.gaherty.ca/ 4. http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ 5. http://www.gaherty.ca/ 6. http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/ 7. http
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Yes - unfortunately, Renaissance Faires have been rife with guys in running shoes and a smock playing Stan Rogers songs on Guild guitars. But this does not mean that things can't change. My son worked Ren Faires for awhile, and there was quite a lot of interest amongst the participants in Paul Odette's CDs. I think the Ren Faire folks would actually love to have some real lute players, but Ren Faires don't pay anything. Most entertainers who work them make their income selling CDs and DVDs. Back to the part about interest: the interest is there. I'm not suggesting that anybody on this list would want to try playing at a Ren Faire. I AM suggesting that there are potential audience members and recorded music consumers in this crowd. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if my audience members like to hurl large weapons at each other in their spare time, as long as they aren't hurling them at me. I would rather have a large audience full of prople who simply think that what I do is cool, than to have a miniscule audience of highly opinionated academics waiting to pounce on my first mistake and tear me apart in a bad review. Riverdance brought attention to Celtic music. And many celtic bands capitalized on riding that wave of success. O Brother Where Art Thou brought attention to Appalachian Traditional music, and ultimately resulted in success for musicians like Alison Krauss, who, even though they are great musicians, might be unheard of today if not for that movie. Similarly, those who love movies like Robin Hood and Lord of the Rings, or Sting's Dowland project, I think, are potential audience for lute recordings and concerts. How to get the word out to them that these recordings and concerts exist is an issue. Also, how to make an Early Music concert an occasion that's not dry, pedantic and stuffy might be another issue. One VERY good way of increasing awareness is school outreach. Any time you are performing in a community see if the presenters can partner with the school system. Kids will be impressed by the instruments, and it will leave a good lasting impression. I was able to get Jacques Ogg and members of Lyra Baroque into our elementary school. How cool is that! Tom I must extend my sincerest thanks to ye olde SCA. I once went to a Renaissance Faire with a fellow modern musician (it was his suggestion). He said, I'll bet you're happy. This is one place you'll see plenty of lutes in action. I wagered him a very hefty sum that we would not see or hear any lutes there. It was a most profitable day for me. Thanks again, SCA! Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com _ _ From: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 6:12 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness . . . Many (certainly not all) somehow believing that assuming a bad cockney accent; whacking each other with wooden weapons while feigning the inability to use struck limbs; and listening to modern Irish, Scottish, or English folk songs strummed by steel-strung acoustic instruments somehow relates to late-medieval/early-renaissance life. If that's your thing, go for it. Myself, I kinda prefer music. -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of [3]r.turov...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 5:37 PM To: Stephen Fryer Cc: [4]t...@heartistrymusic.com; Nancy Carlin; [5]erne...@aquila.mus.br; R. Mattes; [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness For those who don't speak American, and don't know American mores: SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism, and it has nothing to do with NYSCA, which is the New York State Council on the Arts. The latter is a venerable institution that funds arts here, and the former is group of uncultured boors in silly costumes who managed to completely destroy the NY Medieval Festival at Cloisters. RT On 8/8/2013 5:25 PM, [7]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's just the stench that is insufferable. RTOn 8/8/2013 5:23 PM, Stephen Fryer wrote: Well if you're afraid to get that close, you must be pretty scared of them. Stephen Fryer On 08/08/2013 2:00 PM, [8]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't, but I don't have any poles over 10' here. RT On 8/8/2013 4:55 PM, Stephen Fryer wrote: Why does it frighten you? Stephen Fryer On 07/08/2013 11:15 PM, [9]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: That's one scary thought. RTOn 8/7/2013 10:28 PM, [10]t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Why not lutes? Get the SCA involved!To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Regarding Society for Creative Anacronism (SCA): I see, and resonate with, your sentiments here. BUT - It's MARKETING! AND - it's raising awareness amongst the less educated, but INTERESTED miniscule fraction of the public who COULD be attracted to attend YOUR concerts. OK - I'll agree that a lot of folks who get into SCA and go to Renaissance Festivals have a very non-HIP viewpoint on what it's all about. For them it's basically play-acting, in the same way as those who attend Civil War Re-enactments, or Rendezvous Re-enactments. It creates for them warm-fuzzy feelings and an escape from every day hum-drum. BUT - I think these are people whose hearts are in the right place, and who could be enticed to concerts, and who could be willing open books to learn what life and music REALLY was like. And they spend money like fiends! These are people who would buy Sting's Songs From The Labyrinth. And don't diss the guy - he introduced this music to a HUGE cross-section of listeners who otherwise would never have given it the time of day. Thank him, and Edin for helping draw attention to the music you play. Just because a person has a warped view of reality, If they had ultimate respect for what you do, would you not want to see them as an audience member at your next concert? BTW - don't ALL of us have slightly warped views of reality? (Except for me, of course ... ) Tom My sentiment exactly. RT On 8/8/2013 6:12 PM, Braig, Eugene wrote: . . . Many (certainly not all) somehow believing that assuming a bad cockney accent; whacking each other with wooden weapons while feigning the inability to use struck limbs; and listening to modern Irish, Scottish, or English folk songs strummed by steel-strung acoustic instruments somehow relates to late-medieval/early-renaissance life. If that's your thing, go for it. Myself, I kinda prefer music. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of r.turov...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 5:37 PM To: Stephen Fryer Cc: t...@heartistrymusic.com; Nancy Carlin; erne...@aquila.mus.br; R. Mattes; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness For those who don't speak American, and don't know American mores: SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism, and it has nothing to do with NYSCA, which is the New York State Council on the Arts. The latter is a venerable institution that funds arts here, and the former is group of uncultured boors in silly costumes who managed to completely destroy the NY Medieval Festival at Cloisters. RT On 8/8/2013 5:25 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: No, it's just the stench that is insufferable. RT On 8/8/2013 5:23 PM, Stephen Fryer wrote: Well if you're afraid to get that close, you must be pretty scared of them. Stephen Fryer On 08/08/2013 2:00 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't, but I don't have any poles over 10' here. RT On 8/8/2013 4:55 PM, Stephen Fryer wrote: Why does it frighten you? Stephen Fryer On 07/08/2013 11:15 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: That's one scary thought. RT On 8/7/2013 10:28 PM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Why not lutes? Get the SCA involved! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: colonel public Lute awareness
I hope nobody thinks I was trashing Brahms. On the contrary, I have great respect for his music. My point was that there are people who are so focused on one genre of music that they seem to disdain all others. I am definitely not one of those people. Thanks, Tom Date sent: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 16:20:51 -0700 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com Subject:[LUTE] Re: colonel public Lute awareness On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com wrote: Disdain for either early or later music is foolish. Duke Ellington is reputed to have said: There are only two kinds of music; good music and bad music. And since no two persons will ever agree on which is which in every case, this might be the most useless comment ever made on any subject. While I think Ellington was (reputedly) talking gibberish, I second Edward's point. In particular, I don't know why anyone who's heard three minutes of his music would want to trash Brahms -- who, by the way, was one of the great early music pioneers of his age. He was a collector of pre-Baroque music, directed public performances of music by Gabrieli and Schütz with his choir, and published an edition of Couperin. He was also a genius, whose music has benefited, I think, from the attentions of HIP performers. If you're a diehard HIP/period instrument person (and hey, who isn't?), there are a good number of HIP Brahms recordings: for starters, the symphonies and German Requiem by Norrington and Gardiner, the serenades by Spering/Capella Augustina, the string sextets by Monica Huggett's Hausmusik, the piano music by Hardy Rittner and Jan Michels, and the violin sonatas and horn trio by Isabelle and Alexander Melnikov. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
I think the pop world calls it paying your dues. Brahms used to play in seedy waterfront bars. Why not lutes? Get the SCA involved! Date sent: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 06:13:40 -0300 To: Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com Copies to: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: erne...@aquila.mus.br erne...@aquila.mus.br Subject:[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness Talking to a friend recently arrived from The Hague I heard an interesting planned strategy put into use by a recorder duo: doing a lot of small gigs in a city (small local churches, libraries, museums, community gathering spots) for a very small or no fee to collect e-mail addresses from potential concert-goers and drawing all these people to a major concert in the city center. Makes sense, and is a organized and planned mirror of how a pro pop band gets to make it. Ernesto Ett 11-99 242120 4 11-28376692 On 06.08.2013, at 18:49, Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com wrote: On 8/6/2013 2:07 PM, R. Mattes wrote: I never meant to say that the web page would get the gig for any musician, but it is the place where people go to look up an email address to offer the concert. Also the savy presenters will be looking there to check on what kind of promo materials will be available to them (pictures that can be down loaded or linked to, a well written bio for their publicity, etc.). Actually more of the bookings come from hammering away and name recognition and connections. Here is the US a lot of that is done at some very expensive conferences such as APAP - now called Arts Presenters. We do have a number of American groups running their own concert series and some of them invite others to play in their series. Mostly I see a lot of energy going into putting on 3-4 of their own group's concerts and very little back and forth concert opportunities. You are right about the concert presenter having many options to choose between. So how can we encourage them to hire more lutes and early music? They have to know it's out there and available (and many in the US do not). And they need to be reassured that they will get an audience and not loose money. Nancy Here I have to strongly object. I think that web-pages are totally over-rated (and I _do_ have some experience with the World Wide Web). Of all the musicians I know, only one, once, got a concert because of his web page. Maybe it's totally different in the states but the idea that a concert organizer googles for a Lute player (or any other kind of musician) is absurd. You get concerts because you _know_ people (and contact them at least twice a year!). You build up networks - invite other musicians to concert series you organize and hopefuly you get invited back (oh, and you need to have at least a small concert series :-) The problem of most organizers/comitees is not having to few groups to play (and hence having to find some) - it's more often having too many I have yet to see a paper out at a lute concert where the players is collecting emails for his own mailing list. Concert promoters have a hard time getting audiences out and need all the help they can get. Musicians who help them fill the seats get booked. - the lute world seems to be made up of players of all levels, but completely empty of people who are just fans. Yes, that's sadly a phenomen the lute world shares with the guitar world. Player-only-audiences. I think it correlates with the fact that guitar-/lute players often _only_ listen to Lute/Guitar music (have a look at your lute/guitar player friends CD shelves). I prefer to dwell in the early music world where ensembles do have fan audiences. Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Nancy Carlin Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org PO Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA 925 / 686-5800 www.groundsanddivisions.info www.nancycarlinassociates.com Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Thanks RalfD, Yes - I NEVER play for free. And I don't do open mics, etc. I find that if venues pay little or nothing you get treated like trash, while if they pay well you get treated well. I do play for good benefit causes sometimes, but I am very careful about it. Otherwise you get lots of people calling you because they think you'll play for free. Tom On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:23:07 +, Ron Andrico wrote Briefly, playing for free (or worse, paying to play) doesn't really do any lasting good. It only makes the potential audience think that your music should be free. We only play for free for children and for worthy causes aimed at people who are more disadvantaged than us. Yes, I just wanted to send the same remarks. Ask yourself a simple question: Am I professional? Which professional of any other profession would work for free? The plumber who repaired all bathrooms in town for free so people will pay him when they need a plumber ... oh, wait. I'm shocked at what stupid marketing tricks people believe in. Please, remember - marketing techniques do not scale (down). What might be a brilliant campaign for a large company will not work out for the small business. Keep in mind: large companies usually don't need to _create_ a market, their campaigns usually fight for market share. It's not: can we sell Bonzos to the public, it's about: Will the public buy our Bonzos or the ones from our competitor. A concert you play for free is a concert you will not play for fee ;-) Sometimes your market will be small, no matter what you do (outdoor pools in Greenland come to mind) - let's face it, playing sophisticated, rather intellectual lute music isn't for everyone. Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
Back to the original premise: The problem is lack of support - if not outright hostility - from the mainstream classical music establishment. While my perception of what I and other early music performers do is that we play classical music, many, many official classical musicians do not share this view. I have run into this dilemma trying to program early music as a board member for a small-town local non-profit that presents a series of classical music concerts. The attitude of violinists, etc. who prefer Brahms seems to be one of disdain for EM. While concert attendance in our community is totally unpredictable, these board members are all too ready to point to lutes as an example of low numbers, even though there have been lower numbers for 19th and 20th century concerts. ( ... never mind the blizzard or sub-zero temperatures that probably had an impact! ) Some on this board have even put forth the notion that duos don't draw audience, but trios or more will. There is absolutely no hard data to support this, but they believe it anyway, even though one of their pet performers (that happens to play a lot of Brahms) consistently draws well and is - a duo! Absurd, and one reason that I stepped down from that board. How can the early music community begin to change these perceptions? Tom Draughon Heartistry Music www.heartistry.com Chris Wilke wrote: In America, I haven't found any lack of interest in lute or early music from the broader public. Many people who are intimidated by perceived ritual and stuffy atmosphere of standard classical concerts are drawn in by the look and sound of early instruments. Some marketers have recognized this: early music is quite well represented in classical music station playlists. (I've just been invited to give a one hour interview/lute performance on our local public radio station here in Rochester, for example.) My own solo concerts and performances by the student early music ensembles I've directed have drawn healthy crowds. This is good, but there are larger issues. The problem is lack of support - if not outright hostility - from the mainstream classical music establishment. While my perception of what I and other early music performers do is that we play classical music, many, many official classical musicians do not share this view. Indeed, at colleges where I was employed, significant public response was ultimately detrimental as it drew the flagrant ire of at least two tenured professors with great influence in the departments. Both of these professors actively petitioned against having any early music performance activities at their respective colleges, ostensibly on the grounds that it distracted students from giving full attention to the real program of instruction. (One of the professors had the gaul to tell me to my face, You're not a real ensemble because you don't play in parts. WTF? The majority of what we performed was renaissance polyphony!) I think they were afraid we were making them look bad. Concerts were not free to the public; box office receipts showed that we were bringing in actual revenue. And maybe, just maybe, my esteemed senior colleagues were jealous also of the fact that students were learning and having fun. Oh well, those professors are still there doing the same old thing and I am still struggling very much to find work years later. Good for them. Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com - Original Message - From: gary magg...@sonic.net To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 4:06 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness I got into early music 'cause I hate crowds. My jazz performances were attracting too many people. Of course, you heard about the lutenist who won the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with his winnings, he said, I'm going to work 'til they run out. Early music, like jazz and chamber music, is a niche market. Upon being asked how one can make money in music, Henry Mancini said, If you want to make money in music, go into band uniforms. Gary On 2013-08-02 05:17, [1]erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: I have done the same for a small baroque orchestra at the University of Sao Paulo, USP, with little gain as well. The group has a lute and a theorbo in it. Any hints are welcome. We have thought everything from flash-mobs to pairing music with food, theater, baroque dance, text, whatever... So far our biggest
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness Dear Tom, I play mostly solo and in duo, that's not just because I like it but above all for financial reasons. Sure, a big ensemble will appeal to more people, however, who's going to pay the bill? Well said Bruno! Thanks, Tom Some on this board have even put forth the notion that duos don't draw audience, but trios or more will. 2013/8/5 [1]t...@heartistrymusic.com Back to the original premise: The problem is lack of support - if not outright hostility - from the mainstream classical music establishment. While my perception of what I and other early music performers do is that we play classical music, many, many official classical musicians do not share this view. I have run into this dilemma trying to program early music as a board member for a small-town local non-profit that presents a series of classical music concerts. The attitude of violinists, etc. who prefer Brahms seems to be one of disdain for EM. While concert attendance in our community is totally unpredictable, these board members are all too ready to point to lutes as an example of low numbers, even though there have been lower numbers for 19th and 20th century concerts. ( ... never mind the blizzard or sub-zero temperatures that probably had an impact! ) Some on this board have even put forth the notion that duos don't draw audience, but trios or more will. There is absolutely no hard data to support this, but they believe it anyway, even though one of their pet performers (that happens to play a lot of Brahms) consistently draws well and is - a duo! Absurd, and one reason that I stepped down from that board. How can the early music community begin to change these perceptions? Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [2]www.heartistry.com Chris Wilke wrote: In America, I haven't found any lack of interest in lute or early music from the broader public. Many people who are intimidated by perceived ritual and stuffy atmosphere of standard classical concerts are drawn in by the look and sound of early instruments. Some marketers have recognized this: early music is quite well represented in classical music station playlists. (I've just been invited to give a one hour interview/lute performance on our local public radio station here in Rochester, for example.) My own solo concerts and performances by the student early music ensembles I've directed have drawn healthy crowds. This is good, but there are larger issues. The problem is lack of support - if not outright hostility - from the mainstream classical music establishment. While my perception of what I and other early music performers do is that we play classical music, many, many official classical musicians do not share this view. Indeed, at colleges where I was employed, significant public response was ultimately detrimental as it drew the flagrant ire of at least two tenured professors with great influence in the departments. Both of these professors actively petitioned against having any early music performance activities at their respective colleges, ostensibly on the grounds that it distracted students from giving full attention to the real program of instruction. (One of the professors had the gaul to tell me to my face, You're not a real ensemble because you don't play in parts. WTF? The majority of what we performed was renaissance polyphony!) I think they were afraid we were making them look bad. Concerts were not free to the public; box office receipts showed that we were bringing in actual revenue. And maybe, just maybe, my
[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness Disdain for either early or later music is foolish... I agree! I like and play many kinds of music. There have been times when I listened to something TRYING to like it, and I could not. But, I find that there is good material in most all genres. While I love Dowland, I perform mostly American traditional music. Beethoven is one of my favorites, but as I drive down the road to a bluegrass festival I might be listening to Paul Winter Consort Icarus, or the Beatles' White Album (not my fav, but it's on my SD card ... ) I also like Dvorak (I've even sung some of his art songs), and I think he, like Mendelssohn, drew much inspiration from the man Haydn referred to as the great mogul ;) In short - It's ALL good! Thanks, Tom Duke Ellington is reputed to have said: There are only two kinds of music; good music and bad music. Playing early music on recorders and later music on the cello, I feel fortunate to have playing access to both Dufay and Dvorak. Ned To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: Lutes and amps
Haven't been lurking, but just checked my lute email for the 1st time in a month! Interesting thread. I have a friend who wants to amp an old Hoffner lute-bodied guitar, and I'm looking into possibilities. Because it has a rose internal mounting is not an option. I would highly recommend getting rid of cables, etc. by going wireless with Line 6 G30 Relay. http://line6.com/relay/ I have been using them on my guitars and find that they are very natural sounding. They work very well for upright bass, also. I am sure that it would not alter the tonal character of a Schertler contact pickup. The transmitter unit is quite small, and be concealed very easily. BTW, I use both Fishman and LR Baggs under-the-saddle pick-ups with an outboard Paracoustic DI preamp connected after the receiver. The Hoffner may have a saddle that is too narrow for a thinline, so the contact-mic idea is one possible solution. I have also been using Samson Airline Micro wireless mics for voice, and I love them! If I could figure out a way to mount one unobtrusively on the Gui-lute I would go with that. VERY natural sound! Tom Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com On 25 May 2013 17:45, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks to all for the detailed advice so far. A summary for those who are listening in but don't get all the off-list replies: Some more off-list info digested for the lurkers in this list: Consider Schertler Giulia Amp (50W) Pro: cheaper than AER. Practically same weight: 6,3kg. Con: one input only (might be enough for your needs). No send/return for external effect loop (one day you might want to play with effects) If weight/size is the main issue, and you don't care about reverb, think of the Mackie SRM150 (50W) Pro: lighter (3,4kg) and smaller. Cheaper than AER. Con: no reverb, Internet reviews report reliability issues DPA4099 mic comes with different XLR-adaptors. The guitar variety (first choice perhaps?) has a 80Hz Low cut filter in the adaptor. A low E-string on a guitar is 82Hz, but some lutes go lower ... The Universal variety has an adaptor without low cut filter. Tomorrow I'll test a friend's DPA4099 with the guitar adaptor. David Mic. DPA is good, but also consider AKG and a Schertler stick-on mic. I happen to like the sound of a good mic in front of the instrument better than a stick-on mic, but tastes may differ. Also, fly fishing with the cables/amp when standing up/moving is not appealing to me, and changing instruments in concert can be a hassle with the sticky things. The DPA4099 comes in some 'dedicated' varieties. That means, with different holders. The guitar version, perhaps a first choice, comes with a holder that fits a, you guessed it, guitar but not a lute. I was thinking of the universal version/holder, which can be strapped onto a music stand: unobtrusive. Amp The AER Alpha has phantom power, for those who were wondering. A good competitor was the Trace Elliot TA100. Twice as expensive, many more buttons/dials/lights/effects. Half a kilo lighter! (6kg) Weight is an issue, as I have many lutes but no car ... Roland is mentioned often. But they're twice as heavy. Consider a feedback cancelling function on the amp. Keep the advice and experience coming, much appreciated. David Does anyone have experience with amplifying a lute? I am thinking of a set-up with a DPA 4099 mic and an AER Alpha amp. Insights welcome. David *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] New Year's Greetings
Happy New Year ALL !! Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Fun with Fronimo
To learn to use this program I have been experimenting with transcribing some of Dowland's 1st Booke. With Fronimo, and the help of my graphics program, I have made a PDF of (one could speculate) what Dowland and his printer might have wanted to see if they'd had the technology. Apologies in advance for modernizing the spelling. In table format - 2 printable 11 x 17s Since I can't do an attachment for the list, just email me if you want a copy. Tom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Best Body Frets?
That short fret recalls me of an African instrument, the Malagasy Kabosy. See here: http://www.boutique.laterit.fr/img/p/69-279-thickbox.jpg I think have seen this sort of fret arrangement also on Tamburitza. Tom Paolo Busato lute-maker www.busatolutes.com e-mail: paolo.busatoatbusatolutes.com __ ___ Il contenuto di questa e-mail e dei file allegati è RISERVATO e da considerarsi utilizzabile solamente dalla persona o dall'ente cui è indirizzato. Se avete ricevuto questa e-mail per errore, siete pregati di eliminarla e di contattare il mittente (Legge italiana 196/2003). The content of this e-mail and any files is CONFIDENTIAL and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email and any attachments and contact the sender. (Italian Law 196/2003) __ ___ - Original Message - From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net To: Paolo Busato pa.bus...@tiscali.it Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Best Body Frets? I know- that's bothered me for years. Diatonic fretting for the 1st course? -But that would only make sense going from 10-f to 12-g. The last fret that I broke- which prompted me to start this whole thread- was a piece off the end of the 11th, permitting only such diatonic fretting at that spot. Shame that I require the f# as well. The frets in Costa's painting look entirely too elegant symmetrical to be a broken fret such as mine. Dan On 9/26/2012 11:35 AM, Paolo Busato wrote: Strangely enough the lute in the Costa's painting has eleven frets (instead of twelve) and the tenth fret covers only the 2nd, 3rd and 4th course. Paolo Busato lute-maker www.busatolutes.com e-mail: paolo.busatoatbusatolutes.com ___ __ Il contenuto di questa e-mail e dei file allegati è RISERVATO e da considerarsi utilizzabile solamente dalla persona o dall'ente cui è indirizzato. Se avete ricevuto questa e-mail per errore, siete pregati di eliminarla e di contattare il mittente (Legge italiana 196/2003). The content of this e-mail and any files is CONFIDENTIAL and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email and any attachments and contact the sender. (Italian Law 196/2003) ___ __ - Original Message - From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:53 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Best Body Frets? William, While body frets were certainly not standard (Francesco was just one player known for going above the frets, as not doubt was Pietro Bono and others) , they were an option going as far back as the late 15 Century- see Lorenzo Costa's Concert, ca. 1485-95, National Gallery, London. 3 ebony looking frets right there on the 5 course lute. Anyway, Not quite the point of my question. Been there, done that. My six course lute was body fretless for decades, and I had zero trouble nailing the notes with perfect intonation, after some practice. In fact, I have a new student who is a violinist. He almost can't stand ANY of the frets- neck and body- interfering with his ability to get the perfect intonation he is used to, and accomplishes very easily by touch/hearing. At least as beginner, he finds them very difficult. But the necessity of clear, defined singing tone for those last 3, 4, or more semitones takes precedence in the music I am playing on these days. Which is why I put them on my eight course lute, which I was playing without body frets for the first 6 months after I got it- and yes, it is great practice. But the freedom to get really get accurate intonation was trumped but the need for more clearly defined tone. A pity, really, as the 12th fret requires some tricky slanting to get the octave n in perfect tune from the first down to the 4th course, then others take their position cues from that fret. And they are not all perfect- compromising happens. 17th century French practice is not 18th century German practice. While Dowland mentions ten tied frets in addition to body frets, 9 seems to have been standard and sufficient for the French virtuosos, but Weiss has you going right up to the octave, and there seem to be quite a number of late swan neck lutes with 14 total frets. Sam- I wouldn't use that double sticky tape for more than temporary position exploring. I thought it was the cat's pajamas myself for a few weeks, then they started getting knocked around, and the sound (on my lute, of course
[LUTE] Consort Suggestions Please
I have some friends who have had a recorder ensemble for many years. Formerly 4 players. They lost one of their main players some years ago, and they would like to re-group as a trio with me playing Renaissance lute. They inherited a fine collection of Renaissance and Baroque recorders, in all sizes including Bass, crumhorns, zincs, and even a sakpipa and a cornemuse from the founder of the ensemble. Does anybody have suggestions for composers and / or specific pieces that would fit well with 3 recorders, etc. and lute? Dowland's Lachrimae, perhaps? (I know that's 5 parts - but ... leave one out maybe ... ? ) Thanks in advance, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute and guitar
I play primarily steel string guitars, a little classical, classical piano, 5 string banjo, and now working on Ren lute. Not long ago friends were encouraging me to use acrylic reinforcement on nails, but I never liked the tone quality. One day I picked up something heavy and the acrylics popped off, taking the top layers of nail with them and leaving a very flimsy remnant. I gave up nails for good after that. I use metal finger picks and a plastic thumb pick when playing steel strings. Nails no longer get in the way of my piano or lute. I can even frail banjo without a nail. I don't get a bright honky sound on classical, but I never liked that anyway.BTW, I believe Tarrega didn't use nails. Bets of luck, Tom Dear Christopher, (and dear lute wisdom), I just see that you are playing and teaching the guitar as well as the lute. How do you manage to play both instruments regarding nails (and maybe other problems)? I am juggling between having the nails long when focusing on the guitar, thereby neglecting the lute, having intermediate nails while playing both instruments and short nails while playing the lute and vihuela, thereby now and then playing my guitar with finger tips. I would be interested how other people manage the problem(s) of loving instruments of both types. Best Franz -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Consort Suggestions Please
There's a saying somewhere that if there's a bagpipe in the same room with a lute, you can't hear the lute being played, even if the bagpipe is not. Same thing probably applies to the krumhorn! Al Yes. I played guitar in a Celtic group with a Northumbrian Smallpiper. He also had a sakpipa. I used to refer to it as the sack-o-(insert-your-favorite-disparaging-term-here)-a. BTW - who's vacuuming??!! T -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Mast Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 3:34 PM To: t...@heartistrymusic.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Consort Suggestions Please Not an answer to your question, but perhaps relevant if playing part music. When I got back to the lute a few years ago, I went to our local recorder society meetings to play ensemble music. What I found is that recorders generally read an octave higher then notated, so that playing the lute on a top or middle line put me an octave lower than the recorders, and thus out of place harmonically. So, I generally ended up on the bottom, or bass line, which is not the most comfortable area on the lute. Also, when playing music with longer not values, the lack of sustain of the lute compared to the recorders bothered me a bit. My solution was to learn to play the recorder. It sounds as if they could loan you an instrument or two to learn, and if you learn the fingering for the alto and tenor you can also play the bass and the soprano. I draw the line at the crumhorn, however! On Sep 9, 2012, at 1:12 PM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: I have some friends who have had a recorder ensemble for many years. Formerly 4 players. They lost one of their main players some years ago, and they would like to re-group as a trio with me playing Renaissance lute. They inherited a fine collection of Renaissance and Baroque recorders, in all sizes including Bass, crumhorns, zincs, and even a sakpipa and a cornemuse from the founder of the ensemble. Does anybody have suggestions for composers and / or specific pieces that would fit well with 3 recorders, etc. and lute? Dowland's Lachrimae, perhaps? (I know that's 5 parts - but ... leave one out maybe ... ? ) Thanks in advance, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
That title isn't quite PC these days, is it ... ? Tom .. well, more Balcarres ... the piece is beautiful. Could of course be played more cleanly. Just in case somebody is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/48826023 Best, Arto On 02/09/12 21:55, Arto Wikla wrote: Dear lutenists, my weekend project was to play some Scottish, Celtic sounding small pieces by Mr. Beck of the Balcarres manuscript. In a way mostly the music is not technically very difficult, but on the other hand, musically it certainly is not easy! In case someone is interested, the three pieces of my weekend are Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/48612640 Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/48655228 The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/48698296 The period and place are very interesting: little by little the tonality is creeping into the modal, and even more or less pentatonic music! That was a fruitful mixture! All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: What's the historical reason for the bent down peg box?
I mentioned this to a friend who is not a musician, but a brilliant scientist. His immediate reaction was that the sharp angle of the string going over the nut to a right angle pegbox would have the same effect as a pulley in reducing the amount of pressure in lbs per square inch on the pegs - thereby making it much easier to tune and reducing stress on the whole pegbox. This makes great sense to me. Glued joints can, of course, fail for a variety of reasons: including a poorly made joint and the glue gelling before the joint being held firm/clamped. Interestingly, as an indication of the stress on the long extensions of theorboes and archlutes: they bend and rise after a time and some remedial action is often necessary to return them to a reasonable playable state; but in my experience the joint itself rarely fails... MH --- On Mon, 3/9/12, Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com wrote: From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What's the historical reason for the bent down peg box? To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk Date: Monday, 3 September, 2012, 14:48 Well, so much for assumptions. Thank you, Martyn. I would only add that, having had the peg box come loose three times on my 8 course instrument, I still feel more confidence in the glue joint with the peg box being angled than I would in a straight neck-peg box glue joint. On Sep 3, 2012, at 3:23 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: The neck and peghead of the theorbo is in two seperate pieces and are, indeed, glued together at the join. MH -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Folksong (2of 2)
Thanks Arthur. Interesting to me that some of the ancient ballads Sharp collected in the Appalachians are supposed to be older versions than those collected in the UK. The premise for this is that passing folksongs down through family tradition persisted until industrialization. When country folks moved into factory jobs and aspired to a more affluent lifestyle, they often discarded their folk culture. As one commentator put it, They're trying to act rich before they have any money. So they wanted to embrace opera and other high-brow music styles and disassociate themselves from their commoner past. This had an effect on the ballad tradition. In parts of the Appalachians the descendants of British Isles ancestors who settled there sometimes lived pre-industrial lifestyles even into the 1940s. Sharp and Kerpeales were there in 1916. Most residents of the UK were affected by industrialization at a much earlier date. This is the theory, at least. Thanks again, Tom Here's the other one from Appalachia by Sharp. Some other interesting folksong collections. - Original Message - From: nore...@ur.rochester.edu To: arthurjn...@verizon.net Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 2:03 AM Subject: New UR Research Publications for dates: 03/01/2012 - 03/02/2012 New publications are available in the UR Research collections you have subscribed to New publications in Musical Scores: 23 Publication Name: Southern war songs: camp-fire, patriotic and sentimental URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18819versionNumber=1 Composer:Fagan, W, L (1838 - 1914) Publication Name: War songs of the blue and the gray, as sung by the brave soldiers of the Union and Confederate armies in camp, on the march, and in garrison URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18818versionNumber=1 Publication Name: Sheherazade : trois poemes pour chant orchestre URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18817versionNumber=1 Composer:Ravel, Maurice (1875 - 1937) Editor:Klingsor, Tristan (1874 - 1966) Publication Name: Alte franzosische volkslieder URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18816versionNumber=1 Composer:Bartsch, Karl (1832 - 1888) Publication Name: Rondes de printemps : Images pour orchestre no. 3 URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18815versionNumber=1 Composer:Debussy, Claude (1862 - 1918) Publication Name: Gigues. Images pour orchestre, no. 1 URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18814versionNumber=1 Composer:Debussy, Claude (1862 - 1918) Publication Name: Songs, from the published writings of Alfred Tennyson. Set to music by various composers. Edited by W.G. Cusins, with a portrait and original illus. by Winslow Homer [and others]. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18811versionNumber=1 Editor:Cusins, W, G (1833 - 1893) Author:Tennyson, Alfred, Tennyson, Baron (1809 - 1892) Publication Name: Songs and masques, with Observations in the art of English poesy, ed. by A.H. Bullen. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18810versionNumber=1 Composer:Campion, Thomas (1567 - 1620) Editor:Bullen, A, H (1857 - 1920) Publication Name: The songs of Robert Burns : now first printed with the melodies for which they were written : a study in tone-poetry with bibliography, historical notes, and glossary / by James C. Dick. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18809versionNumber=1 Author:Burns, Robert (1759 - 1796) Editor:Dick, James, C (1838 - 1907) Publication Name: Folk songs of the American negro / edited by Frederick J. Work ; introduction by John W. Work, Jr. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18808versionNumber=1 Editor:Work, Frederick, J (1871 - 1925) Editor:Work, John, Wesley (1873 - 1925) Publication Name: American Indian melodies / harmonized by Arthur Farwell. URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18807versionNumber=1 Arranger:Farwell, Arthur (1872 - 1952) Publication Name: Stimmen der Volker in Liedern, Tanzen und Charakterstucken. I. Abteilung: Die Volksmusik der Kreolen Amerikas URL: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.ac tion?institutionalItemId=18806versionNumber=1 Compiler:Friedenthal, Albert (1862 - 1921) Publication Name: Folk-songs
[LUTE] Re: folksongs
Thanks Ed - you beat me to the punch. Yes, Bronson is an excellent reference. A good example (IMHO) is Child no. 39, Tam Lin. Bronson refers to the air as the ancient tune. Indeed, the story line of the ballad has its origins in ancient Greece. The collected ballad, Thomas the Rhymer, Child 37, is based on a real person who lived at the time of William Wallace. Thomas was a well-known seer who foretold the future in terms of the weather. He accurately forecast the death of Alexander III, which led directly to the wars of Scottish Independence. (1286 - 1305). The song tells of how he received his powers by spending 7 years with the Queen of Faerie. It strikes me that we may well be debating two different things here: 1) Is there true folk music that was incorporated into lute settings and preserved via written tablature and mensural notation? 2) Is there true folk music which still exists in some form today? I'm talking about option 2. And, yes, the version a rural singer sang in 1887 is undoubtedly going to be different than what a singer sang in 1632. That's a given. It's referred to as the folk process. It's a living, breathing tradition where songs and stories ARE changed by the same mechanism as the school game of gossip or telephone. And, yes, Woody Guthrie's This Land Is Your Land has entered the realm of traditional folk song. How many people realize that it was written by a known real person? When oral tradition songs are written down and somebody says, You have to sing it exactly this way, the song becomes static, dead ... People who devote intense study to the body of folk ballads that we know analyze things like iambs and other rhyme schemes to see if they were from the troubadour tradition or not. Other clues to antiquity come from lyrics such as: :Le fils du roy s'en va chassant (en roulant ma boule) avec son grand fusil d'argent. The prince went hunting with his big silver matchlock. Matchlocks predate flintlocks. We're looking at 16th or 15th century. Barbeau published a small treatise exclusively on this song: Trois Beaux Canards (92 versions Canadiennes) Laval, Canada: Editions Fides, Extrait des Archives de Folklore, Publications de l'Universite Laval, Vol. 2, 1947 Note 92 versions from Canada alone. The older the song, the more likely one is to find many variants. These are just a few of the tools folklorists use to date a song. So, No. I don't expect to find too many true folk tunes written down for lute from the time period. I would expect some few composed tunes to to have found their way into the popular culture - more in the music hall era than the Renaissance. But let's remember that it works both ways: many a composer has used a common folk tune without overtly crediting it. I think that between folk musicology and Renaissance musicology, there may be much valuable information to be gleaned from each other on both sides. Thanks, Tom Dear list: True, it's difficult to date folk music. But one would be wise to consult Bertrand Bronson's monumental collection in 4 vols., Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads (Princeton UP, 1959-72). Bronson is aware of such things as ground bass patterns that underlie such tunes as Greensleeves, and is especially good on identifying tune families. Ed Doughtie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: Survival of folk music from 1400-1650.
Thanks Herbert for this question, and thanks Alain for this information. I'd like to add that a lot of true folk music, at least in the English and French languages, IS preserved. It was transmitted via oral tradition and recorded and transcribed by collectors in the later 19th and early 20th centuries. In English, Francis Child and Cecil Sharp saved much valuable material from oblivion. In French Canada, Marius Barbeau, E. Z. Massicote and others did the same. Many of these songs originated with jongleurs and often date back to the early Renaissance and Medieval times. Although it is all but gone now, the oral tradition was still very much alive in rural areas into the 20th century, and many source singers were recorded by Barbeau, Sharp and others as early as 1916 on Edison cylinders. I'll be happy to share some bibliographies if anybody is interested. Tom Herbert, If you mean popular music rather than 'folk' (which I believe is a 1960s concept, so not yet relevant in the 1560s), Thomas Ravenscroft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Ravenscroft) made his fame collecting and publishing it with the express aim to preserve it from oblivion. Another very important source for the 16th century are the single sheet ballads -- a lot (1000s of those) have survived and most are available in facsimile formats. The University of Santa Barbara is hosting a project to make those ballads more digitally available (see http://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/). Very few of those single sheets have printed music but they usually carry a mention of the tune they should be sung to, so they give a good idea of what tunes were popular: most of those exist in one or several solo lute version of some kind - Packington's pound being an example among dozens. I mention the Robert ap Huw manuscript as an effort to preserve very early harp music at http://musickshandmade.com/lute/collections/view/50 . Attaingnant's publications for the lute in France covered the type of material that we might identify today as 'folk': popular and even regional. I think it even preserves the tunes used by tradesmen to get attention and sell their goods in the streets, les cris de Paris. Many folk tunes have their origin in good old 'classical' music, i.e. compositions by highly educated and professionally trained musicians. Gabriel Bataille's publications of the 'Airs de cour' for instance would have provided much material for provincial folks to emulate. In the 17th and 18th century in England, much if not all of the theater songs were published and popularized. You might find it interesting to compare those 2 versions of the same French popular tune on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXiY2A8nAM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJZu_Bz6Yofeature=related. I heard that the beautiful italian tune Vestiva i colli is still sung in some areas of Italy as a favorite folk tune making it one of the longest lasting melody in Europe - whether Palestrina actually composed the melody or arranged it from a popular source. My 2 cents on this rather complex and fascinating subject, Alain On 08/08/2012 08:40 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: I've always assumed that little of the folk music from 1400-1650 has survived, except for that preserved as lute arrangements (Go From My Window, Fortune My Foe, etc.), because of the low literacy and the high cost of paper. Is this accurate? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: A Gig gone bad
Thanks C! Exactly why my contracts read, Payment will be made immediately prior to performance. Tom Thought the lute listers might enjoy this glimpse into the life of working musicians in 1790's Virginia. No Lutes involved, just some unpaid loot. C.Etter http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/2012/07/25/the-peop le-her e-seem-very-fond-of-musick/ A chair maker, musician, and dancing master make a very strange trio, but 1790 judgment papers found in the Richmond (City) court records show how a concert brought the three together and eventually brought two of them to blows. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far?
They're really fishing. I don't know whay's happening with non-US royalty / licensing issues, but in the US, copyright law has been amended such that performing rights agencies like ASCAP, BMI, Harry Fox, SESAC are now basically legally abusing the law. For instance - ASCAP is claiming rights to all traditional Irish music! Their stance is, It's up to YOU to prove that it's not in our database of several million songs, and by the way, we'll sell you that database for a few thousand dollars. It's ridiculous, but the threat of litigation (ASCAP has NEVER lost a case) has everybody cowering. Even American Civil Liberties Union won't touch this stuff. ASCAP and BMI have web-crawlers looking for every little club that has music and, even if it's all original, they're demanding that these venuse pay a blanlet license fee to cover licensing. That's about $1000 times how many hundred-thousand clubs and restaurants? BIG money! They even sent letters to our chamber music society. It's killing live music. And who gets a royalty check? Beyonce, Sir Paul, etc. The rest goes into ASCAP / BMI coffers. It's no wonder they're pursuing this. It's like the rackets in Chicago in the 1920s, and the current copyright law is allowing them to do it with impunity. There DOES need to be a class-action lawsuit! How can I help? Tom They're really fishing. Our first flagged video was for an unaccompanied 5th century Gallican Chant, with a text written by St. Thomas Aquinas, who died in 1274. I think my comment to them was something like you're kidding, right?. They've since flagged virtually everything, and have withdrawn every claim when we tell them, as David did, that they're Ron's own copyrighted editions from ms sources. I imagine we'll be pleased one of these days when someone else uses our recordings as backup music to a video, but what a nuisance. -Donna Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:51:26 -0400 To: davidvanooi...@gmail.com CC: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: kidneykut...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far? I posted 8 private videos (to let the performer evaluate them) and every single one was tagged as being owned by a licensing agency. I contested every one, throwing in a comment about the need for a class action law suite against Harry Fox and youtube, and every claim has been withdrawn. Danny On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:46 PM, David van Ooijen wrote:After an earlier enquiry I told YouTube I had made my own arrangement from the original ms. No editions, all my own work. Then YouTube tells me this (about my Guitar channel: MeesterDavidGitaar): Your video Greensleeves (guitar), may have content that is owned or licensed by One or more music publishing rights collecting societies, rumblefish and The Harry Fox Agency, Inc. (HFA), but it's still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it. This claim is not penalising your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video.Is this too far, or what? Reminds me of the story that you cannot get a copy from the ms in library because Minkoff printed the ms (clenaed up version ...) even though the Minkoff print is out of print and will never be in print again. What's next? For me this is already too far and there is no next ... David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far?
From: Adam Olsen arol...@gmail.com They probably want to air on the safe side and expect you to dispute it, because it's much less of a problem to go that route rather than ending up with a lawsuit. Yes - a lawsuit from ASCAP ... Tom On Jul 4, 2012 4:39 PM, Ron Andrico [1]praelu...@hotmail.com wrote: They're really fishing. Our first flagged video was for an unaccompanied 5th century Gallican Chant, with a text written by St. Thomas Aquinas, who died in 1274. I think my comment to them was something like you're kidding, right?. They've since flagged virtually everything, and have withdrawn every claim when we tell them, as David did, that they're Ron's own copyrighted editions from ms sources. I imagine we'll be pleased one of these days when someone else uses our recordings as backup music to a video, but what a nuisance. -Donna Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:51:26 -0400 To: [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com CC: [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [4]kidneykut...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far? I posted 8 private videos (to let the performer evaluate them) and every single one was tagged as being owned by a licensing agency. I contested every one, throwing in a comment about the need for a class action law suite against Harry Fox and youtube, and every claim has been withdrawn. Danny On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:46 PM, David van Ooijen wrote: After an earlier enquiry I told YouTube I had made my own arrangement from the original ms. No editions, all my own work. Then YouTube tells me this (about my Guitar channel: MeesterDavidGitaar): Your video Greensleeves (guitar), may have content that is owned or licensed by One or more music publishing rights collecting societies, rumblefish and The Harry Fox Agency, Inc. (HFA), but it's still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it. This claim is not penalising your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video. Is this too far, or what? Reminds me of the story that you cannot get a copy from the ms in library because Minkoff printed the ms (clenaed up version ...) even though the Minkoff print is out of print and will never be in print again. What's next? For me this is already too far and there is no next ... David -- *** David van Ooijen [5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [6]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com 5. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 6. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
As we said many times when I was in college, pluck it! T Ron, I love your comment on this subject! :-) Arto On 25/06/12 16:13, Ron Andrico wrote: I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM,willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. Bill On 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butlerakbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: New post
Many, if not all CD replication companies are offering digital download cards. (They see the writing on the wall.) Here is just one example: http://www.noiseland.com/download_cards/ With these cards there is the option of routing the buyer directly to your own website. So, one can remain independent of CD Baby, iTunes, etc. if they want to. Tom The main CDBaby website seems to have disappeared, though the music download page seems to work. Martin On 28/06/2012 00:45, Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: I think I see. So the buyer goes to CDBaby, types in the code and they can get their goodies. Clever. On Jun 27, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: http://members.cdbaby.com/music-download-cards.aspx On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:52 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:51 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: we've begun to offer download cards for souvenir-seeking audience members What does a download card look like and how does it work? Naively, Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp -- Martin Eastwell Lute, Theorbo Guitar Website: www.martineastwell.com Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: New post
I'm really enjoying this discussion and the varying viewpoints. I must say that, even at age 55, I still like to have physical media. Interesting point, though, about the longevity of CDs and CDrs. I had archived an out-of-print LP to CD for myself approximately 10 years ago, went to play the CD a few weeks ago, and it was un-playable. Fortunately I had made extra copies, and one was good enough to be able to extract the tracks in SoundForge and re-burn the CD. But, who wants to have to do that on a regular basis? I've been told that the motion picture industry, which stores movies on hard - drives, re-archives these drives every year to prevent data loss. We DO already have a fairly reliable archival medium with some built in copy protection: it's called the LP. But, except for a few purists, I don't see that being the media of the future. Will it be DVD? MP3? FLAC? 24bit 96KHz ? Who knows? One thing is for sure: the BIG music companies would rather not have to manufacture hunks of plastic and ship them by rail and truck to sales outlets They would much rather simply control the content and sell online. I think the death knell for cassettes was when the big auto-makers stopped putting cassette players in vehicles. Ford has announced that they are phasing out CD players in cars. They will be superceded by XM / FM radios with an iPod dock and / or USB port for a flash drive. So, while I and other luddites will hold on dearly to their CDs, I think the writing is on the wall. Will my grandchildren stare in wonder at them like I did 78s? Still, the big question in MY mind is, what will THEY be listening to? Thanks all, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 It's a shame that there are a lot of people, mostly over 60, who haven't the faintest idea about downloads, ipods, docks and suchlike. This business of getting a download on their computer (- many don't possess a computer - ) is bemusing to them. I have a good friend (a luthier in his 80s) who, when his virus checker comes up for renewal, refuses to download the latest version, but goes to the shop and buys it on a CD, which leads to all kinds of clashes in his account - but he understandably wants something he can hold and put on a shelf rather than a thing that apparently springs from the ether and could just a easily spring back again. Talk about a 'lost generation'? Bill From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com To: Karl Wohlwend kwoh...@gmail.com Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2012, 20:37 Subject: [LUTE] Re: New post As long as I can go on line and find the CDs I want, I consider the medium still alive (but it is ironic that CDs may ultimately pre-decease vinyl). I prefer having my music stored on discs (or records) that I can browse, and including notes that I can read away from a computer. Of course, this being my preference means nothing in terms of which way the industry will go. But at least I have a substantial library that will sustain me musically for years to come. Ned On Jun 26, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Karl Wohlwend wrote: CDs still have a place in the world for those of us who play concerts. The digital revolution hasn't yet found a way to satisfy those audience members who want to take a souvenir home with them, and performers always need gas and food money. They also make fine business cards. Now, profit is another story altogether... Karl Wohlwend 503 E Weber Rd Columbus OH 43202 614.405.2300 Classical Guitar Performance and Instruction www.columbusclassicalguitar.com To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning
Back in the '70s I remember reading in a book about historical tuning theory that, at least according to that author (whose name I can't recall), people in all likelihood used theories like Just Intonation and Meantone as a starting point, then adjusted things until they sounded good to them. Since there is no such thing as a perfect string generating a perfect overtone series, this makes perfect sense to me. I'm loving reading this discussion, though. My college Theory professor said, If it sounds good, it's good. She was referring to composition, but the same can be said for tuning. Tom I have to say, I'm always amused by these discussions that broadly outline the imprint of theoretical measurements on the phenomenon of sound. If we look at all the factors, including thickness and stiffness of string material, variability in trueness of dimension, interference of temperature and humidity (and probably barometric pressure) on the transmission of sound, proximate acoustical deflections, damping caused by skin oils, distortion caused by finger pressure, variability caused by thickness of fret material, wave interference from nut, bridge, soundboard materials, etc. Then there is the phenomenon that different ears hear the pitch differently. Where do we stop? I say train your ears and tune to the best of your ability. RA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:24:40 +0100 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: akbut...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tuning with apologies to those who aren't interested ;-) For a plucked instrument the finger on the node is removed from the string just after the pluck. (otherwise the sound is damped) Indeed, having sharp harmonics is a property of all strings outside the physics lesson, as any piano tuner knows. Also, if you use an oscilloscope to view the waveform, and hit the harmonic partially so that some of the fundamental also sounds, you can see the waveform of the harmonic moving against that of the fundamental. For a bowed instrument, I suspect the harmonics are in tune as long as the bow is driving the string. andy Philip Brown wrote: That may be true, but a more obvious cause would be that the total length of vibrating string is reduced by the width of the area of contact of the finger. Cheers Philip Brown On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:00 AM, willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: They would be for a perfectly thin flexible string - but string stiffness sharpens the higher harmonics. BillOn 25 June 2012 09:39, andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Harmonics on a plucked string are a little bit sharp, Isn't it the case that harmonics are pure by definition? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: New post
Ron and Donna, thanks for this post. Although it is about recorded music in general, I don't consider it to be off topic, because professional lute players must make and sell recordings. Although sales of early music are probably not affected as much now as, say, Cold Play, by what is happening in the Free Culture generation, it is only a matter of time. It certainly has already affected contemporary instrumental guitarists and other acoustic and folk genres. Inspired by a comment in one of David Tayler's posts ... CDs are dead ..., I posted a question to the list some time ago, asking peoples' opinion as to the fate of CDs. I was a little surprised that NOBODY responded. Maybe it is considered too off topic. Although it's not as lute specific as Kapsberger or 4060 or Nylgut, it will definitely affect all music, even lute music, and the ability of professional players to make a living. How will we be buying our recordings 10 years from now? Or WILL we be buying them? I hope everybody on the list will take the time to read the articles linked in your post - especially the one by Emily White of NPR's All Songs Considered. It is a very telling confession about how an entire generation demographic between 20 and 40 years of age views buying (or NOT buying) recorded music. And she's working for National Public Radio!! Thanks again, Tom This may seem off-topic it isn't really. We have a blog post discussing a crisis in the viability of recorded music: Free music? [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-qJ Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-qJ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Portqble recorders
Be Warned: I have been using Tascam DR100. Less than 2 years, maybe in action about 10 times. Treated with kid gloves. After charging last week it will not power up. Good batteries, good charger/ AC adapter. Nothing. So far Tascam's service communication is miserable. I am in limbo. I can say after this, that I probably won't buy another Tascam product. Good luck with all the rest, and all the best, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 I am using the ZOOM H4n , together with an AKG SE 300B. Regards Gilbert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: David Smith Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 6:58 PM To: 'Roman Turovsky' ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portqble recorders I have a Blue Snowball that works pretty well with my iPhone/iPad and works well with a MAC/PC. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Roman Turovsky Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:30 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portqble recorders For a few days I've been a proud owner of a Tascam stereo mic for iPhone. To be tested in the next few! RT On 6/16/2012 11:22 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: I use a Tascam DR-08 and am very happy with it. The little microphones built in give pretty decent sound reproduction, but I have tried several higher quality plug in mics with better results, (Or, if there is a sound man at a concert, I have had him plug the unit directly into the soundboard through the headphone output using a 1/4 to 1/8 inch stereo converter). I have a friend with a Sony who loves it as well. As with digital encoding, the process of encoding a signal is the same, regardless of what unit. WHat matter most is the fidelity of the microphone, and so the smaller units (like the Tascam) do best with a higher quality mic. -Original Message- From: andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portqble recorders i've used the Zoom H2 quite a lot. It depends on how much you want to spend, and what you mean by CD quality. .and how portable. The Zoom certain gets excellent results considering that it fits in the pocket alongside plenty of left over cash. If you're going to be recording your own cd then you'll really benefit from studio quality condenser mics, and good preamps. If you already have a laptop it's possible to work out an excellent portable system without frightening expense. (more info if that's the way you want to go). andy Anthony Hart wrote: Has anyone had any experience of CD quality portable recorders for recording live performances (legally)? I have seen specs for several including ZOOM, Tascam Grateful for any help To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: greetings with saman and ballard
Absolutely lovely! Tom Dear all, I am new on the list and instead of introduction I am sending you a link to the short video from the concert in Toronto with Toronto Continuo Collective. My solo was just a small part of a concert. Both courantes (by Saman and Ballard) are from the Gdansk lute tablature 4022. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqk0nuBEM-I from the same concert there is also fun French Dialogue: [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_4M2KDtpIfeature=relmfu best, Magdalena PS. Ron, I enjoyed your version of Ravenscroft very much! -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqk0nuBEM-I 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_4M2KDtpIfeature=relmfu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Calatas
If it really was a dance it seems strange that the tunes would be in different time signatures. It would be very difficult to dance a structured dance to common time if the dance was designed for 3/4 and vice versa. I'm interested to know what the rhythm is supposed to be. Thanks, Tom Montesardo and Costanza include pieces with the title Calata. Montesardo's seems to be in common time and just repeats the formula I IV V. Costanza's is actually described as di Fiorenza and is 6/4 time and has a rather odd harmonic scheme - it starts in a major key and ends in a minor key. Millioni (1627) also has a Calata in D major and 3/4 time. According to my rather out of date Harvard dictionary the Calata is a 16th century dance and Dalza is the only source of examples. Does anyone know of any other sources of Calatas in the intervening period. It seems strange that it should suddenly have resurfaced after such a long period. regards Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: how to make a good tone
Thank You David! This is a very cool tidbit of information. I have tried it, and it immediately changed my thinking on how to strike the strings of a lute. I am having to undo many years of Leo Kottke style steel-string guitar technique when trying to play Renaissance lute. Pluck too hard, or in the wrong place, and one gets hellish jarring sounds. When striking strings laterally it is very easy to strike with too much force, resulting in string movement where the strings collide with each other and the fretboard. I have long known that pressing a string towards the fingerboard, then releasing, gives a tone where there is no fret buzz, since the string cannot rebound any further than originally pressed. Your video seems a combination of verticle pressing plus a small amount of lateral movement to set the course in motion. I have been applying this idea to my playing of songs from John Dowland's First Booke of Ayres (and the second) with good results. It is a very different tactile feeling to come at the strings vertically, then brush sideways, but the results speak for themselves. Thanks again! Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 I made a video of an exercise I like: just making a good tone. Not as in focus as it should be, but I think the point does get across: http://youtu.be/eAiLytW3Dzs David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Making Fronimo Files Into EPS
Thanks Nancy, Rocky, and Jose for your helpful suggestions. When I re-PDF a graphics file that I imported a PDF to is when things get fuzzy - even in printing! So, I tried saving PDF as a TIFF and this looks awful on-screen but seems to print OK. Haven't tried making a PDF out of that, yet. I am also a Finale user, and I usually just export a TIFF graphics file at 600dpi. These work well, but I want the diamond-shaped noteheads, etc. like Fronimo can provide, and I don't know of a way to do this convincingly in Finale. Is there a font for Finale that will do this? Thanks, Tom I use InDesign a lot and one of the problems with bringing any pdf into it is that what you see on the screen is quite fuzzy. It always prints out beautifully, but it's sometimes hard to add things on top of the pdf because of the lack of resultion. I have done the imports from Fronimo into Photshop and you can see the result in 2 of the LSA's past Quarterlies: the songs by Ed Durbrow about a year ago and more recently the theorbo music that accompanied Francesca Torelli's article. Nancy You might try printing to PDF and importing them into Quark (at least it works for InDesign). Still, I have had some issues with that, and worked around them by generating a PDF from my original program (Finale), then opening that in a Photoshop-type program (with a 600 or 1200 ppi resolution) to convert it to a bitmap TIFF file which imports fine into page layout programs. -- R On May 16, 2012, at 10:05 AM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: I want to import a Fronimo .ft3 file into a graphics program such as QuarkExpress or CorelDraw (I am a registered user of all 3 programs). I have tried printing .eps to a generic postscript printer, but no success. PDF files look fuzzy. Is there any way to generate .eps or .tiff or any other graphics format in Fronimo ? Thanks, Tom To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - [2]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [3]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 3. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Making Fronimo Files Into EPS
I want to import a Fronimo .ft3 file into a graphics program such as QuarkExpress or CorelDraw (I am a registered user of all 3 programs). I have tried printing .eps to a generic postscript printer, but no success. PDF files look fuzzy. Is there any way to generate .eps or .tiff or any other graphics format in Fronimo ? Thanks, Tom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Android app for recording lute
Several companies are now making good quality microphones specifically for iOS: Tascam iM2 $79 (has its own precision preamp and A/D converter) Blue Mikey Digital $99 and Spark Digital $199 IK Multimedia iRig Mic $59 and iRig Mic Cast $39 Apogee MiC $199 I'm sure any of these would blow the doors off your phone's mic. A big part of the sound problem could be preamp / converter in your android. Tom Is there a good app for recording yourself on Android? I tried a few apps, but the sound came out very distorted and blown out. I know the phone's microphone is better than that, because if I use the video camera app it sounds fine. Any suggestions? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Zamboni re-tubed...
Arto, I think you do a fantastic job of driving a zamboni ! ( ... http://www.zamboni.com/ ) Really very nice music and very nicely played. Thanks, Tom Dear lutenists, just in case our List will come alive again: I re-recorded some Zamboni when warming up my 10-course Vieil Accord playing - a tiny gig is coming. My tube explanation of the Preludio, Sarabanda Largo and Gavotta Allegro is: These pieces of the Sonata 9 by Giovanni Zamboni Romano come from his printed book Sonate d'intavolatura di Leuto, Opera Prima (Lucca 1718). The book is an example of a very late use of the old renaissance tuning, the Vieil Accord. The instrument is 10-course renaissance lute made by Stephen Barber 1986. If interested, the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/41204447 All the best, and I hope our List will be back some day! Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
... It's obviously a bit of popular-press fluff, not even quite gray literature, but that stuff tends to reach much more of the general public than scholarly literature ever will. Eugene I agree. The interesting thing to me on this topic is the response it is getting from the Lute list. Yes, you lutenists who have been at it for 20 - 30 years already know this, but I think that in all likelihood, the rest of the music world does not. An article like this on a guitar site (nose upturned?) will probably reach a lot more people, and therefore could be a good thing, bringing more attention to lutes from other musical disciplines. Something I have noticed in reading liner notes to CDs / LPs is that, for example, keyboard afficianodos sometimes seem to be unaware that a Bach piece was also arranged by the man himself for other instruments. The same is true for violin, etc. Any press is good press - even bad press. I personally think that the more people write about these things, the better. And if you have pertinent info that this writer doesn't seem to have, maybe they would like to know about it? Knowledge, especially accurate knowledge, is best shared with the world. And anything done to place the word Lute in front of a wider audience is going to be good for lutes and lutenists. I'll look forward to future responses. Tom However, there is at least a fair amount of reference to primary source material (the manuscripts themselves). It's obviously a bit of popular-press fluff, not even quite gray literature, but that stuff tends to reach much more of the general public than scholarly literature ever will. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stephan Olbertz Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:35 AM Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Re: Bach´s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted Am 25.04.2012, 22:27 Uhr, schrieb Daniel Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net: The article was aimed at the guitar crowd, And that's probably why the article is a bit superficial. ;-) A real contribution would need to be in scholarly style. No references here, no mentioning of newer literature (e.g. by Negwer, Dierksen, Hofmann, Ledbetter), lots of statements without evidence. Regards Stephan still clinging to illusions of lute. It's tough letting go. But he put it all together very nicely, I thought. On Apr 25, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Braig, Eugene wrote: While I enjoyed this read, I didn't see anything particularly new here. For example, Hopkinson Smith specifically named all the sources of Bach's original lute music in the liner notes he drafted for his recording of this music around 30 years ago. He also stated their evident non-lute provenance. I have heard Paul O'Dette unequivocally state on more than one occasion something like Sorry, Bach did not write for the lute. Etc. I suspect that anybody who is still clinging to the notion that Bach knowingly composed lute music after having had some exposure to some reference of the source material either really, really wants to believe so to somehow legitimize the lute or is a fan of modern classical guitar who wants to somehow legitimize the perceived ancestor of his/her own instrument. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:58 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Luca Manassero Subject: [LUTE] [LUTE] Bach´s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted A very interesting article. I can't wait to see the responses from the rest of the list! I am reminded that Walther Gerwig did an arrangement of Bach's Cello Suite No.1 in G major, BWV1007. Very nice and beautifully played - in Renaissance tuning! Tom -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
A very interesting article. I can't wait to see the responses from the rest of the list! I am reminded that Walther Gerwig did an arrangement of Bach's Cello Suite No.1 in G major, BWV1007. Very nice and beautifully played - in Renaissance tuning! Tom An interesting post: [1]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-th is-m yth-is-busted-part-i/ Luca References 1. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this- myth-is-busted-part-i/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Lundberg's contribution to lutemaking in the age of Galileo
$119.95 from the following: http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=79067124aid=bkfndr Tom Dear List, I just discovered what it seems a very interesting book: Victor Coehlo (ed.), Music and Science in the Age of Galileo, Kluwer Academic Publishers 1992 Preview here: [1]http://books.google.it/books?id=yjH_c3KQ3yMC Robert Lundberg's contribution (The physics and metaphysics of Galileo's lute) looks very interesting, but again the preview on Google books is rather limited and the book horribly expensive (US$ 239 on Amazon.com). Does anybody have a copy of Lunberg's article which could be shared in some way? Thank you in advance, Luca References 1. http://books.google.it/books?id=yjH_c3KQ3yMC To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes
Well stated Ron. Here in Wisconsin we are seeing this first-hand as our (not so noble) governor Walker strips equal pay for women, collective bargaining rights for public workers, and generally takes steps to transfer wealth from the working class to the elite. The Republican party has designs to do similar things nationwide, and they are holding up Walker and his actions as a shining beacon for their paradigm of what our nation should be. Add to this that our US supreme court has ruled that corporations are now people, and in Wisconsin Republicans can now intentionally enter elections as Democrats to blatantly thwart fair election processes, and one can easily see that we have taken some giant steps backwards, and our nation is poised to continue this trend. Crack open the history books indeed!! Unless you're a major corporation, the average person is powerless to stop what's happening now. Tom We have contributed our Saturday quotes, this week placing the lute song in its noble context. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-ni Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-ni To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes
The connection would be Saturday Quotes. Excuse me, Tom. Since my vision isn't what it used to be and these glasses are a bit smeared at the moment, would you kindly point out the lute content of your post? I seem to be having a hard time spotting it. On 4/21/2012 10:18 AM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Well stated Ron. Here in Wisconsin we are seeing this first-hand as our (not so noble) governor Walker strips equal pay for women, collective bargaining rights for public workers, and generally takes steps to transfer wealth from the working class to the elite. The Republican party has designs to do similar things nationwide, and they are holding up Walker and his actions as a shining beacon for their paradigm of what our nation should be. Add to this that our US supreme court has ruled that corporations are now people, and in Wisconsin Republicans can now intentionally enter elections as Democrats to blatantly thwart fair election processes, and one can easily see that we have taken some giant steps backwards, and our nation is poised to continue this trend. Crack open the history books indeed!! Unless you're a major corporation, the average person is powerless to stop what's happening now. Tom We have contributed our Saturday quotes, this week placing the lute song in its noble context. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-ni Ron Donna -- References 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-ni To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: New vihuela
VERY nice on all levels! Tom D Hello, I'm happy to present my new vihuela, made by Didier Jarny... Rosewood and maple back and sides, maple neck and head, snakewood fretboard. Probably not an historical model (but iconographical inspiration), we choose, with Didier the woods and decoration and he did a fantastic job, and the instrument is nice looking, nice sounding, and very well set up, so easy to play. So here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htHj3pACSKc Valéry ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] CD Viability was Miking a lute/theorbo
CDs are dead and 48KHz sounds better. Thanks for these tips on recording! I have been asking colleagues and random friends this question for years: How long do YOU think it will be before CDs go the way of the Cassette? I did a recording with my Celtic band, Way Up North in 1994 - 5. At the time cassettes were still holding their sales power against CDs at about 50%. The trend was obvious, though. We had an equal number of Cassettes and CDs printed. I still have Cassettes left over. (Anybody want one? - FREE!) Similarly, my newest acoustic folk trio, Take 3, has completed a recording project, and one of our members insisted on getting 1000 CDs printed. I have a feeling that I may still have some of these in a closet 20 years from now ... I wanted to go with digital download cards and print-on-demand CDs, but agreed to printing 1000 CDs to keep the peace. The real death-knell for cassettes came when automobile makers stopped putting cassette players in vehicles. Automaker Ford has said that they will stop putting CD players in their cars: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/car-cd-players-obsolete/ ( Or, from Television Station CBS 2 in Los Angeles ) - Ford will soon stop installing CD players in its new vehicles. The automaker is scrapping CD players in its new vehicle models and opting to instead install USB sockets for iPods and other digital music players. Ford says all of its new cars will have a computer hub, which will allow drivers to access their music libraries from the Internet. So, as recording artists trying to sell recorded music, where do we go from here? How long will MP3 last? Will FLAC become the format of choice? What do YOU think will be the next long-term viable media format for music sales? Or is there one? I'll look forward to all of your opinions. Tom Draughon http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net The dynamic range of digital exceeds the background noise in your room. For example, if your DR is 110 dB, and your background is 45 dB, you have only 65 dB range. A typical lute has DR of maybe 40 dB. Recording in 24 bits, each bit is worth 6dB. So when recording, set your levels high, but not at the very highest, becasue your end result will be 16 bit or less. USe that extra resolution to downsample and normalize at exactly the time of output for the best result. Use 48 kH, not 44.1: CDs are dead and 48 sounds better. Consider AAC 24 bit/48kHz for output--best kept secret in audio. Most people not only throw away the bits, they use a cheapo encoder that chops off all the high frequencies, even though free or inexpensive ones are available and need only to be set up once. dt _ _ From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp To: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com; LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 3:48:35 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Miking a lute/theorbo On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Anthony Hind wrote: Ed Do I understand that you record in mono? I have often found that mono recordings are more relaxing than stereo, and analog more relaxing than digital; so mono analog is sometimes the easiest to listen to. It is as though the brain has lesswork to do recreating the sound image (trying to make the two sound images coincide). Although you no longer have indications of instrument position. No, I record in stereo if it is solo. Sometimes I record the lute in mono if there is a voice or other instrument because I have just one very expensive Neumann mic and I like to use it on the lute if I can. What I was saying is that if you record in a coincident pattern, there will be NO problems with phasing in mono playback. I don't know who listens in mono anymore, but it could happen. My main reason for using a coincident pattern though is that I can get a consistent sound on different days and even in different locations. I'm essentially lazy. It used to be true that mono tape had far more dynamic space than stereo (mono analog with Nagra whole track, instead of stereo halftrack; although I suppose with two Nagras synchronized for stereo, you would have the same dynamic space); but is this still applicable with the newest digital recording medium with various lossless compressing algorythms? No, I'm pretty sure the dynamic range is the same for mono or stereo in the digital domain. You choose the bit rate, after all. Personally, I feel the recording capabilities today far exceed the playback systems most people listen on. If I record at 24 bits 48k or 44.1k (some record at double or quadruple that sample rate) with nice mics, the advantages are more in the manipulation/effect/processing domain than
[LUTE] Re: All about micing...redux
From: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu Subject:[LUTE] Re: All about micing...redux I'm assuming it's still pronounced 'mike' but maybe it's 'mick'? Perhaps we should be talking about 'micking'? I think Jagger has a copyright on that term ... T To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Quality vs Quantity
The problem with ALL self-publishing: there are no editors. At the current increasing rate of low quality product uploaded onto the web (in all media), I wonder what the web will look like in 10 years. Will it even be possible to find quality? Agreed, although I think the lute videos are much higher quality than many others. I pity young people who are trying to sift through it all (am I sounding OLD, or what?). How can one develop a filter for what is good art, or music, or film, or TV, when there is so much junk to wade through? Tom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Quality vs Quantity
You raise some valid points, David. I agree that editing in the process of making CDs, going into 1000 edits, IS fake. It's not a performance. However, I don't think that video is the answer. How can we keep the bar high? Personally, I think video, which came to the fore in the early '1980's, was the WORST thing that ever happened to popular music. It shifted the focus from sound to images. Music became secondary. I have actually had people say to me, Well the song's not all that great, BUT YOU SHOULD SEE THE VIDEO! Now, everybody with GarageBand thinks they'll be the next rock star, and everybody with a camcorder thinks they'll be the next viral youtube star. There are no producers to say, Not good enough, lads (or lasses). Go back and polish it some more. Serious amateurs have no excuses: the technology is astoundingly cheap and leaps and bounds above what the Beatles had to use. What serious amateurs DON'T have is a producer and record label money and marketing power to help them get to the next level. I don't think CDs push people out of the talent pool. No, I think they contribute to the already overwhelming amount of bad recordings that exist because everybody thinks they're a recording tech because they have a computer and a condenser microphone from Musician's Friend. More mediocre videos will simply translate over time to a lot more mediocre videos. Good video is over 90% audio... I would agree that you are right: there IS the opportunity for artists to work to the highest possible standard and hit a homerun with their video. But, will anybody be able to sift it out and watch it? Hopefully artists WILL continue to pursue a grand slam. Like you, I retain hope that people will find quality live performance of lute and other early music, and see how cool it really is. It's amazing what one can find on YouTube. But there's even another component: unless you're an audiophile, why buy music when you can hear and watch it on YouTube for free? We live in a very strange world! All the best, Tom CDs are fake; YouTube is relatively real (with caveats) My take on this, FWIW, is that CDs do tremendous harm to the music world. The editing, the processing, the compression, that is all bad enough. But the real evil is that it prevents the serious amateur from taking the next steps, by creating an imaginary hurdle that is too high. CDs push people out of the talent pool before they even start. Oh, so you want to learn to run? Come back when you can run a ten second mile. Also, really talented people who are looking for a real challenge, can now try to hit a home run without being able to walk to the 360 foot centerfield wall and drop the ball over. They can climb the mountain without a magical transporter beam. They will go for it. We need a bigger base to keep music, early music, classical music afloat. And here it comes. People should feel free to share whatever they want on the internet, and the viewers will watch, or not watch. More videos means a larger audience, which will set the stage for the next generation of players drawn from outside the traditional, tiny circles of Early Music. Makers of CDs--and I number myself among them--will decide whether they want to show people what they really sound like, and be held up to the standard of their recorded works. I am now much more comfortable releasing material that has a few mistakes in it. Now, anything I do is compared to other real videos, instead of fake CDs with 2,000 edits. Millions--millions--of people who have never seen a lute before are joining us on our musical adventure. I have to believe, I hope, that one of the reasons that they like it, and are watching in record numbers, is because they prefer a real apple to a plastic one, real cheese to Velveeta, and the sound of wood and strings instead of compression, EQ and reverb. Quality vs Quantity? The quality is there; and it will rapidly get even better. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Folk Process was: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P
Actually RT, you're right - I mis-spoke. JJN actually authored things he tried to pass off as collected, authentic folk material. He probably did this because of pressure from his publisher. Later on he actually tried to sue somebody for royalties, but lost because he had claimed in print that the song was traditional. For a very interesting thread on this topic see http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12983 Thanks, Tom JJNiles didn't take credit where he should have, as I recall. For authoring folk material. RT - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de Cc: t...@heartistrymusic.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Folk Process was: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P I think in the case of a lot of folk songs published at this time they are more than often completely new and composed in the style of or often even a complete invention of a tradition. I won't dispute this, but I would add to it: There have been many during the course of the 20th century who took credit for something which pre-dates their existence - John Jacob Niles and Carl Sandberg to name just two. The desire to make money from a melody or a song seems to be a corrupting influence. ( BTW, how can there actually be a copyright on Happy Birthday? ) But then, there is something called the folk process: genuine folk music, passed on by oral tradition instead of written note, is like a game of gossip or telephone where the original seed is modified by the mis-understanding or imperfect memory of the receiver. Over time this evolves into myriad different versions of a song or tune - ever changing. Writing this down and saying, I composed this (even if I orchestrated or arranged it) is not fair to the process. The viewpoint that we have to sing something exactly like Doc Watson sang it or it's not authentic also kills the folk process. Likewise, writing it down and leading people to believe that they must perform it the way it is written also kills the folk process and the spirit of the music. I play American Old Time fiddle. I don't consider myself to be good, or even all that knowledgable, but I love the challenge. I prefer to learn tunes from participating in fiddle jams. I know I don't end up playing the tune exactly like the master played it, but to me that's OK - it's the folk process at work. I have two good friends, Bruce Greene and Don Pedi who are fiddle tune virtuosos. Only Don is a lap dulcimer player! I have learned tunes from Don that Don learned from Bruce, then compared. They're the same tune alright, but how different! Usually in a good way, too. Don captures the genuineness and energy of the tune, whereas Bruce plays it exactly like the 80 year-old Kentucky fiddler he learned it from. Both are great, and both deserve a place in the repertoire, but the folk process is more alive in Don's playing and my catching it, and there's stuff in there that just cannot be written on paper. Tom D Thanks, Tom and Mark. Forgive the off-topic nature of this but we actually saw the credit to Herbert Hughes many years ago, and understand that Hughes was a collector and assembler of anthologies who was rather aggressive about taking credit for whatever he could. In the US folk music realm, we have something of an equivalent in AP Carter, who collected and copyrighted, and recorded a massive number of folk songs. Veering back to topic, I suppose we have historical 'anthologizers' in the lute realm as well, Phalese, Besard, Mertel to name a few. I wonder if the staff lutenist-arranger who did all the work for Phalese would object that the publisher got all the credit for his work? RA Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:09:49 -0500 To: magg...@sonic.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; praelu...@hotmail.com From: t...@heartistrymusic.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P We offer a video of Donna singing an Irish ballad that may or may not be old. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-lK RD Beautiful! Published by Boosey Hawkes, 1909. Irish Country Songs Collected in Donegal by poet Padraic Colum and Herbert Hughes Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Folk Process was: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P
Yes - the Fritz Kreisler of Appalachian folk music ... No, he often found interesting ballad texts, but the tunes were inadequate. So he composed some from scrach, like BLACK IS THE COLOR for example. RT From: t...@heartistrymusic.com Actually RT, you're right - I mis-spoke. JJN actually authored things he tried to pass off as collected, authentic folk material. He probably did this because of pressure from his publisher. Later on he actually tried to sue somebody for royalties, but lost because he had claimed in print that the song was traditional. For a very interesting thread on this topic see http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12983 Thanks, Tom JJNiles didn't take credit where he should have, as I recall. For authoring folk material. RT - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com; Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de Cc: t...@heartistrymusic.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Folk Process was: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P I think in the case of a lot of folk songs published at this time they are more than often completely new and composed in the style of or often even a complete invention of a tradition. I won't dispute this, but I would add to it: There have been many during the course of the 20th century who took credit for something which pre-dates their existence - John Jacob Niles and Carl Sandberg to name just two. The desire to make money from a melody or a song seems to be a corrupting influence. ( BTW, how can there actually be a copyright on Happy Birthday? ) But then, there is something called the folk process: genuine folk music, passed on by oral tradition instead of written note, is like a game of gossip or telephone where the original seed is modified by the mis-understanding or imperfect memory of the receiver. Over time this evolves into myriad different versions of a song or tune - ever changing. Writing this down and saying, I composed this (even if I orchestrated or arranged it) is not fair to the process. The viewpoint that we have to sing something exactly like Doc Watson sang it or it's not authentic also kills the folk process. Likewise, writing it down and leading people to believe that they must perform it the way it is written also kills the folk process and the spirit of the music. I play American Old Time fiddle. I don't consider myself to be good, or even all that knowledgable, but I love the challenge. I prefer to learn tunes from participating in fiddle jams. I know I don't end up playing the tune exactly like the master played it, but to me that's OK - it's the folk process at work. I have two good friends, Bruce Greene and Don Pedi who are fiddle tune virtuosos. Only Don is a lap dulcimer player! I have learned tunes from Don that Don learned from Bruce, then compared. They're the same tune alright, but how different! Usually in a good way, too. Don captures the genuineness and energy of the tune, whereas Bruce plays it exactly like the 80 year-old Kentucky fiddler he learned it from. Both are great, and both deserve a place in the repertoire, but the folk process is more alive in Don's playing and my catching it, and there's stuff in there that just cannot be written on paper. Tom D Thanks, Tom and Mark. Forgive the off-topic nature of this but we actually saw the credit to Herbert Hughes many years ago, and understand that Hughes was a collector and assembler of anthologies who was rather aggressive about taking credit for whatever he could. In the US folk music realm, we have something of an equivalent in AP Carter, who collected and copyrighted, and recorded a massive number of folk songs. Veering back to topic, I suppose we have historical 'anthologizers' in the lute realm as well, Phalese, Besard, Mertel to name a few. I wonder if the staff lutenist-arranger who did all the work for Phalese would object that the publisher got all the credit for his work? RA Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:09:49 -0500 To: magg...@sonic.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; praelu...@hotmail.com From: t...@heartistrymusic.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P We offer a video of Donna singing an Irish ballad that may or may not be old. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-lK RD Beautiful! Published by Boosey Hawkes, 1909. Irish Country Songs Collected in Donegal by poet Padraic Colum and Herbert Hughes Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P
We offer a video of Donna singing an Irish ballad that may or may not be old. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-lK RD Beautiful! Published by Boosey Hawkes, 1909. Irish Country Songs Collected in Donegal by poet Padraic Colum and Herbert Hughes Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE]Folk Process was: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P
I think in the case of a lot of folk songs published at this time they are more than often completely new and composed in the style of or often even a complete invention of a tradition. I won't dispute this, but I would add to it: There have been many during the course of the 20th century who took credit for something which pre-dates their existence - John Jacob Niles and Carl Sandberg to name just two. The desire to make money from a melody or a song seems to be a corrupting influence. ( BTW, how can there actually be a copyright on Happy Birthday? ) But then, there is something called the folk process: genuine folk music, passed on by oral tradition instead of written note, is like a game of gossip or telephone where the original seed is modified by the mis-understanding or imperfect memory of the receiver. Over time this evolves into myriad different versions of a song or tune - ever changing. Writing this down and saying, I composed this (even if I orchestrated or arranged it) is not fair to the process. The viewpoint that we have to sing something exactly like Doc Watson sang it or it's not authentic also kills the folk process. Likewise, writing it down and leading people to believe that they must perform it the way it is written also kills the folk process and the spirit of the music. I play American Old Time fiddle. I don't consider myself to be good, or even all that knowledgable, but I love the challenge. I prefer to learn tunes from participating in fiddle jams. I know I don't end up playing the tune exactly like the master played it, but to me that's OK - it's the folk process at work. I have two good friends, Bruce Greene and Don Pedi who are fiddle tune virtuosos. Only Don is a lap dulcimer player! I have learned tunes from Don that Don learned from Bruce, then compared. They're the same tune alright, but how different! Usually in a good way, too. Don captures the genuineness and energy of the tune, whereas Bruce plays it exactly like the 80 year-old Kentucky fiddler he learned it from. Both are great, and both deserve a place in the repertoire, but the folk process is more alive in Don's playing and my catching it, and there's stuff in there that just cannot be written on paper. Tom D Thanks, Tom and Mark. Forgive the off-topic nature of this but we actually saw the credit to Herbert Hughes many years ago, and understand that Hughes was a collector and assembler of anthologies who was rather aggressive about taking credit for whatever he could. In the US folk music realm, we have something of an equivalent in AP Carter, who collected and copyrighted, and recorded a massive number of folk songs. Veering back to topic, I suppose we have historical 'anthologizers' in the lute realm as well, Phalese, Besard, Mertel to name a few. I wonder if the staff lutenist-arranger who did all the work for Phalese would object that the publisher got all the credit for his work? RA Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:09:49 -0500 To: magg...@sonic.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; praelu...@hotmail.com From: t...@heartistrymusic.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday quote: Sean nos for St. P We offer a video of Donna singing an Irish ballad that may or may not be old. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-lK RD Beautiful! Published by Boosey Hawkes, 1909. Irish Country Songs Collected in Donegal by poet Padraic Colum and Herbert Hughes Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Ban the lute
On Mar 14, 2012, at 10:21 AM, Monica Hall wrote: There is a paradox at the heart of the Early Music Movement - we like the music but we don't like the way the people who created it lived their lives. But you can't separate the two. You have to try and understand the world in which they lived if you want to understand the music. True, but it's so tiresome having to drop acid every time I listen to Hendrix. -- I only had to do it once ... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Violin strings out of spider's thread (objective blind test?)
Thanks Anthony for that link about old violins - excellent!! Yes, testing a string is not easy if you can't make a direct comparison with some other known value (see my report on the synthetic loaded bass). A change of room could make more difference than a change of string or instrument. Then of course with a recording, the mics and recorder all have their own tone. As you imply, probably, you can abstract from the recording quality if the string you hear is immediately compared with a known string on the same instrument, and recorded in exactly the same conditions. However, blind tests of Strads (etc) against modern violins seem to show that perception can also be strongly effected by a musicians expectation or prior knowledge. If you hope an instrument (or string) should be good, you will possibly hear it as such. Apparently, a blind test can cancel some bias, and give quite different results than expected. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/science/in-play-off-between-old-and- new-violins-stradivarius- lags.html Indeed, when I spoke to two lutensists about the new synthetic loaded strings: a lutenist who uses loaded gut and another who uses wirewounds, their expectations immediately became apparent; the loaded gut player expressed his fears that the synthetic loaded bass would probably sound plasticky, and the wirewounds player asked me whether the new string was as true as wirewounds, or a little false like loaded gut strings. This fear or expectancy would no doubt bias their judgement of the new string. Blind testing would possibly counteract this. I can't pretend to be less biassed, I think we are all biassed by the strings we are most used to, which become our norm from which all else is compared. Regards Anthony De: t...@heartistrymusic.com t...@heartistrymusic.com À: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoyé le : Mercredi 7 mars 2012 8h08 Objet: [LUTE] Re: Violin strings out of spider's thread I saw this two days ago on BBC, and after listening to the sound bite I thought, There's no way to compare. Give me a sample sound bite of a good violin with Thomastik strings, and the SAME violin with spider silk strings. Then I will have a basis for comparison.With their current sound sample I can't tell if it's the violin that's responsible for the overall sound and tone, or the string(s). Still, very cool. Tom D Yes- I got the news from one of my lute students yesterday. I heard a sample sound bite on the radio on the way home from work today, somewhat strange sounding- reedy, webby, a touch ethereal otherworldly in a nice way. How the hell did they harvest and process it? About 12 years ago some archery folks tried to gather spider silk for bow strings (apparently the strength to mass/weight ratio is unbelievable) but they got tangled up in a sticky, nasty web mess and abandoned the project. Dan On Mar 6, 2012, at 12:41 PM, Anthony Hind wrote: Violin strings out of spider's thread: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17232058 Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Physiology of playing fast.
The older I go, the slower I gets ... A description of how muscles contract is here http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/musc le3.htm The complexity of the process makes me wonder whether differences in physiology (say, heavily gated sarcoplasmic reticuli) from person to person enable some musicians to play faster than others, or (alternatively) whether fast playing results exclusively from practice and technique. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Violin strings out of spider's thread
I saw this two days ago on BBC, and after listening to the sound bite I thought, There's no way to compare. Give me a sample sound bite of a good violin with Thomastik strings, and the SAME violin with spider silk strings. Then I will have a basis for comparison. With their current sound sample I can't tell if it's the violin that's responsible for the overall sound and tone, or the string(s). Still, very cool. Tom D Yes- I got the news from one of my lute students yesterday. I heard a sample sound bite on the radio on the way home from work today, somewhat strange sounding- reedy, webby, a touch ethereal otherworldly in a nice way. How the hell did they harvest and process it? About 12 years ago some archery folks tried to gather spider silk for bow strings (apparently the strength to mass/weight ratio is unbelievable) but they got tangled up in a sticky, nasty web mess and abandoned the project. Dan On Mar 6, 2012, at 12:41 PM, Anthony Hind wrote: Violin strings out of spider's thread: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17232058 Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Ford Airs de Coeur
To whit: the French style which Ford's songs probably do not represent are airs de cour, songs of the court, not airs de coeur, songs of the heart. Just sayin', that's all. What a difference one little letter can make! Yes, I see that now. My bad. (Don't you just hate this modern slang?) Thanks everybody! Best to all, and keep playing, Ditto! Tom Chris. On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Sean Smith [1]lutesm...@mac.com wrote: Hi Tom, I don't see any replies to your question --Have you driven a Ford discussion lately?-- so here's what I know. He certainly doesn't figure prominently in the first string of late Elizabethan or Jacobean composers but one book of his survives: Musicke of Sundrie Kindes Set forth in two Bookes. The First Whereof Are Aries [sic] for 4 Voices to the Lute, Orphorion, or Basse Viol, with a Dialogue for two Voices, and two Basse Viols in parts, tunde the Lute way. The Second are Pavens, Galiards, Almaines, Toies, Iigges, Thumpes and suchlike, for two Basse-Viols, the Lieraway, so made as the greatest number may serve to play alone, very easie to be performde. Composed by Thomas Ford ... John Windet ... Fleetstreet 1607. I wrote out the entire title to give an idea of what was where in his books. They were printed together and reprinted by Scolar Press in 1978. The pieces you mentioned are in the 2nd Booke and are set for two bass viols written in lute tablature much like the Tobias Hume books (1605, 1607). He was no doubt familiar with at least the first TH book since he also gives the wide option of almost any combination (or solo). Both are printed by John Windet. Hume takes it one further by setting his second book for trios, also for viols or nearly any combination of lutes, viols and/or orpharions. The 'lira-way' tuning is similar to bandora tuning. You should be able to transcribe the bandora pieces for lute (something Nancy Carlin has been doing from the Holmes lutebooks, btw). I haven't tried Fnord's but Hume's viol music sounds very nice on lute(s) and wires. Two other English composers included lira-way viol pieces (Corkine, Maynard) so the solo viol was apparently enjoying a relative popularity at the time. I'm not sure these would join the Airs de Coeur club as the songs he wrote are very English in composition (at least the ones I know --I could be mistaken since it's been a while). I don't know of an on-line source for these so if you can't find them, let me know and I'll send you some scans. best wishes, Sean On Feb 24, 2012, at 10:07 AM, [2]t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Dear Lute Friends, A student of mine heard some Thomas Ford airs de coeur on public radio performed by Godelieve Monden and Narcisso Yepes. The selections are: Allemande Forget Me Not A Pavan A Galliard The Bagpipes The Wild Goose Chase Are these available anywhere in Fronimo or PDF? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music [3]http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 [4]715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lutesm...@mac.com 2. mailto:t...@heartistrymusic.com 3. http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 4. tel:715-682-9362 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Ford Airs de Coeur
Dear Lute Friends, A student of mine heard some Thomas Ford airs de coeur on public radio performed by Godelieve Monden and Narcisso Yepes. The selections are: Allemande Forget Me Not A Pavan A Galliard The Bagpipes The Wild Goose Chase Are these available anywhere in Fronimo or PDF? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger
Absolutely beautiful! What a wonderful way to begin my day. Thanks David! Tom Yet another Kapsberger video :) enjoy http://youtu.be/CpQw0UH-YV4 dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Dumps and Downes
Is this possibly the origin of the verbal expression, Downe in ye dompes? T Bernd sent me the following (I don't think it got to the whole list): -- Forwarded Message From: Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:38:51 +0100 To: Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes I have only 2 dumps and thought them to be quite humpty-dumpty, but read this: ** Dump. A type of instrumental piece occurring in English sources between about 1540 and 1640. Some 20 examples are known, more than half of them for lute and most of the remainder for keyboard. The word is of uncertain derivation. In the 16th century it denoted mental perplexity or a state of melancholy. The musical dump was variously described as 'solemn and still', 'deploring' and 'doleful'; there is some evidence to suggest that it was the English equivalent of the French déploration or tombeau, a piece composed in memory of a recently deceased person. 16 dumps are listed in Ward (1951): all are anonymous except for two by John Johnson. A few more are included in the catalogue in Lumsden, among them a relatively ambitious work in the Marsh Lutebook (IRL-Dm Z.3.2.13) labelled 'Dump philli' (ed. in Ward, 1992, ii, no.4; the piece is unlikely to be by either Philip van Wilder or Peter Philips as was formerly thought). The earliest known dump, My Lady Careys Dompe (in GB-Lbl Roy.App.58; MB, lxvi, 1995, no.37), is familiar as an early example of idiomatic keyboard writing. It is written over an ostinato bass, a simple alternation of tonic and dominant (TTDD). Most other dumps share this type of construction, using similar bass patterns (DTDT, TTDT) or standard grounds such as the bergamasca, passamezzo antico and romanesca. Some later examples have different formal schemes, such as The Irishe Dumpe in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (ed. J.A. Fuller Maitland and W.B. Squire, Leipzig, 1899/R, rev. 2/1979-80 by B. Winogron, no.179), which is a simply harmonized melody of three strains. An isolated late example is An Irish Dump, an instrumental tune printed in Smollet Holden's A Collection of Old Established Irish Slow and Quick Tunes (Dublin, c1807) and reproduced in Grove5; Beethoven arranged it for voice and piano trio, to words by Joanna Baillie, in his collection of 25 Irish songs woo152 no.8 (London and Edinburgh, 1814). Bibliography J.M. Ward: 'The Dolfull Domps', JAMS, iv (1951), 111-21 D. Lumsden: The Sources of English Lute Music, 1540-1620 (diss., U. of Cambridge, 1955) J. Caldwell: English Keyboard Music Before the Nineteenth Century (Oxford, 1973) J.(M.) Ward: Commentary to The Dublin Virginal Manuscript (London, 1983) J.M. Ward: Music for Elizabethan Lutes (Oxford, 1992) Alan Brown *** best wishes Bernd - Original Message - From: Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net To: Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes Bernd-- Nothing from Grove's--or else I didn't notice the citation. Leonard On 2/8/12 3:43 PM, Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de wrote: Dear Leonard, I suppose someone sent you the article from Grove's dictionary? best wishes Bernd - Original Message - From: Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:49 AM Subject: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes What can the collective wisdom share about a style of composition called down(e) or dump? I have four of these: two from Holmes (ff. 12, 94) and two from Marsh (ff. 124, 426). Questions: Are they basically divisions on a ground? Does one follow a strict rhythm with them? I enjoy playing (in some cases simply attempting) these. Are there others, perhaps by different names/titles? Thanks and regards, Leonard Williams To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- End of Forwarded Message Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Saturday quotes
IMHO I think it is important to keep in mind that one critic's
viewpoint
is just that: one person's OPINION. Yes, maybe they are right, but
sometimes there is no black and white viewpoint. One person's trash
is another person's treasure, so to speak. I think we should feel free
to
enjoy what we want to enjoy, despite somebody else's (sometimes VERY
narrow and limited) focus. ( Remember - THEY KNOW MORE than you do,
because THEY HAVE A DEGREE! {or do they?} [ I bought mine online
from Indonesia... ] )
Personally, I don't let anybody tell me what music not to like / buy
and
vice versa: something I learned in high school. In Don Campbell's
book,
The Roar of Silence he talks about sitting in Carnegie Hall as a
music critic,
having an absolutely miserable time because he was listening for the
slightest
mistake, while the person next to him was having a religeous
experience.
If you like Karajan's Brandenburgs buy them, listen to them, love
them,
bask in their lush soundscapes, and to e11 with the critics!
ENJOY Music!
Tom
On Feb 5, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
While I am also a great admirer of Page's work, I am a little
incensed
that a reviewer admits to deliberately panning commercial
recordings with the intent to advance one point of view. Ethics?
Would you be incensed by a reviewer who panned Herbert von Karajan's
recordings of Bach because the critic's one point of view was that
Bach should be played with attention to historical performance
practice? Or a reviewer who admitted that in the 1970's he had
deliberately conveyed the message to buy the period-instrument
recordings of Bach's cantatas by Harnoncourt and Leonhardt and leave
the rest (modern-instrument performances by Richter and Rilling and
whoever)?
Or, closer to home on this list, is it wrong for a critic to opine
that lute recordings on instruments built like modern guitars are not
the ones to buy?
Critics are paid to convey information and make judgments. If a
critic writing for a publication about early music has reached a
conclusion that voices-only performance is correct, and that any
instruments make it as wrong as Karajan's Brandenburgs, it isn't
unethical for that viewpoint to inform his writing--indeed, how could
he possibly put it aside and pretend he didn't think the performances
with instruments are historically wrong (just as you might conclude,
if the instruments were saxophones)? You might find his viewpoint
wrong or overly limited, and maybe you're right. But it isn't
unethical for a critic to approach his work with his own ideas.
The potential ethical problems stem from the small-world nature of
the
early music community, where the prominent performers and scholars
all
know each other, and cronyism, or the reverse, is always a problem.
When I was review editor for the LSA quarterly, I told some folks
(all
of them on this list, I think) that there were ethical problems
because they were performers writing about other performers or
publishers writing about other publishers (competition in common
parlance), making for inherent conflict of interest. I don't think
anyone had ever brought it up before, and while the (soon-to-be
former) reviewers themselves seemed to understand, or at least
accepted, my insistence on avoiding systemic conflict of interest,
the responses I got from the LSA officialdom was much the same
response I would have gotten if I'd said only Martians could write
reviews for the Q. And maybe they were right: perhaps if the
community is small enough, you have to put up with conflic!
t of interest if you want a pool of reviewers.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Tom Draughon
Heartistry Music
http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html
714 9th Avenue West
Ashland, WI 54806
715-682-9362
--
[LUTE] Re: Some history questions
Interesting discussion. For me it ties in with the question of whether a dance suite by J.S. Bach was meant to be danced to: Those dance forms were very old by 1700 - 1750. Were courtly dances such as courante or chaconne still in fashion during the height of the Baroque era, or were they considered antiques that nobody cool would be seen trying? Take this one step further and ask if Bach was merely using the old dance rhythms as a vehicle for artistic expression, to be played at any varying tempo the performer feels comfortable with, or were they meant to be danced to - implying strict meter and appropriate tempo for social dancing? BTW, it seems to me that lutes just don't fit in with the image of country dancing in the 1700s. Not impossible, but it feels more like the domain of fiddles and pipes to me. Perhaps some paintings from the era could shed some light? Looking forward to your responses. Thanks, Tom I don't know about the scholarship, but from personal experience, I can say that in a small room a lute can produce enough sound for a few people to dance. Especially if you aren't competing with post-industrial white noise from traffic, refrigerators, central heating and cooling, etc. Best to all, and keep playing. Chris. On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Anthony Hind [1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote: According to David v. O there is a Tablature for baroque lute: dance tunes. Written by Kaempfer. [2]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/kaempfer_f.html but I will leave David to comment on that. [3]http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/kaempfer_f.html Of course that is puritan England in 1670 - Who knows what things were like in other places and at other times? William Samson I believe during the commonwealth, courtly dances were forbidden, but not country dancing (see Playford's English Dancing Master); and at his daughter's wedding, Cromwell is said to have danced all night. Perhaps the gamba (or other bowed intrument) tended to take over from the lute among the Cromwellians, at least for dance music? Although, as others have said, where there was only a lute in a household, surely that could have been used? - Mail original - De : Ed Durbrow [4]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp A : LuteNet list [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc : Envoye le : Jeudi 2 fevrier 2012 6h08 Objet : [LUTE] Re: Some history questions A recent Lute News had an article about this very issue. They looked into some statistics about how many instruments households had and made the proposition that if there was only a lute available and people wanted to dance, they would have danced to the lute. I think trends change over time. It is hard to imagine dancing dying out immediately with the advent of Dm tuning when dance manuals had been written in lute tab around 1600, but it is also doesn't seem to fit the image of the kind of music that was being played in the time of Baron and Weiss on the Baroque lute. On the other hand, if you expand the definition of what a Baroque lute is, clearly some kinds of lutes (theorbo, archlute, theorboized dm lute) were used in orchestras that played dance music. Interesting question. I wish some musicologists would chime in. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1][6]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [2][7]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [3][8]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. [9]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 2. [10]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 3. [11]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com 2. http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/kaempfer_f.html 3. http://home.planet.nl/~ooije006/david/writings/kaempfer_f.html 4. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 7. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 8. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 9. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 10. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 11. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Facsimile Dimensions
Hello Luters, I recently purchased a new facsimile edition of John Dowland's First Booke of Songes Or Ayres. (Peter Short - 1597) ($13.85 via Amazon). It is print-on-demand from EBBO (Early English Books Online). Probably from microfilm, it says it is a reproduction of an original in the Henry E. Huntington Library. It measures 7.5 x 9.75 inches. The cantus and lute tablature are on the left-hand page, with the tenor, alto, and bass on the right-hand page. It appears to be an accurate study facsimile edition, but would be difficult to read from on a table. Was the original larger? And were all the parts for a song printed on one sheet of paper? What was the original format? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Facsimile Dimensions
Thanks Sean, Mine measures 19cm (7.5) by 13.5cm (5 3/8) actual print on the page. Roughly 75% + of your edition. Fine for sitting in a chair and perusing. And the price was very reasonable. Thanks again, Tom Tom, I just looked at my old Scolar Press facsimile and measured the height of the first page of music (Unquiet thoughts). From top of the I to the bottom of the extra stanzas measures 24.7cm (10 5/8) --this is the verticle boundry of the printed area; not the page size. The publisher's Note at the beginning states that it is reproduced at the original size. This one is reprinted from the British Library. I've always found this series and those printed at the original size to be fairly legible on the table or music stand. There are other facsimiles that are shot down where it becomes pointless to sightread. For example, there is an edition of Tobias Hume that recently circulated around local viola da gambists that I consider way too small for practical play. If this too small go with Scolar Press if you can find them or Performer's Facsimiles. Sean On Jan 20, 2012, at 9:30 AM, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Hello Luters, I recently purchased a new facsimile edition of John Dowland's First Booke of Songes Or Ayres. (Peter Short - 1597) ($13.85 via Amazon). It is print-on-demand from EBBO (Early English Books Online). Probably from microfilm, it says it is a reproduction of an original in the Henry E. Huntington Library. It measures 7.5 x 9.75 inches. The cantus and lute tablature are on the left-hand page, with the tenor, alto, and bass on the right-hand page. It appears to be an accurate study facsimile edition, but would be difficult to read from on a table. Was the original larger? And were all the parts for a song printed on one sheet of paper? What was the original format? Thanks, Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: tuning fork at 433Hz?
Thanks Anthony, although it would indeed seem difficult to explain why 433 might be the harmonic frequency of the universe. BTW - they think it's 432 - one vibe-per-second less than your fork. These people have elaborate and mathematical explanations on their websites. I haven't critically read these explanations yet, so I can offer no opinion on whether I think they have any merit. I am not currently a supporter of the theory, I just know that it exists. Perhaps a piece played at 433 may therefore somehow sound more relaxed (and just as interesting on harmonically rich period instruments), when on compared to 440modern instruments (or period instruments that have been altered tosupport modern string tensions); It seems to me that if one were seriously going to assess sound at a different tuning frequency, then the instrument should be designed and / or set up with the correct string tensions for that frequency. I think that simply taking an instrument designed and strung for 440Hz and lowering the string tension will obviously result in different tonal characteristics. Less tension = less down-bearing on the bridge (of a violin, or a guitar for example - slightly different on a lute where there is no saddle). Less down-bearing would have the effect of less overall volume plus slightly longer sustain. Without embracing scientific method and having a control group in a well designed comparison all this 432 stuff is pure speculation and personal preference, not fact. ... how those Baroque Strads must have suffered over the years from this almost Darwinian striving to be better heard than your neighbour. Yes, they have almost all been altered for higher string tensions: thicker bass bar and soundpost to support the extra pressure, different tailpiece, longer neck set at an angle to allow more playing in high positions, and thicker, higher bridge for more down - bearing. Not only are the strings higher tension, they are also longer. Vuillaume was one of the first makers to start effecting these alterations for players like Pagannini. Interesting thread. Thanks again, Tom Thank you all for your responses, and your detailed explanations, Tom. I agree that In fact, that's one reason pitch has risen over the past few hundred years - more string tension = higher volume and brighter sound. Even today some orchestras tune to 442 - 444, to take advantage of this effect. and this search for brightness, also partly explains the change from gut strung instruments to metal strung ones (while of course the fragility of gut stringing might perhaps have kept pitch down to save string breakage). I recently heard a performance of Stravinsky's Pulcinella on period brass instruments and a gut strung bowed section by the Musiciens du Louvre-Grenoble (Mark Minkowski director); MM argued that even in 1905 gut stringing was fairly standard. He did not say at which pitch they were playing, however, I presume it may have been at 433 Hz. The performance was in no way unsatisfactory, as the modern brightness was replaced by more harmonic texturing, coming both from the gut strings, and from the warmer but also rougher sounding period brass instruments. While the threads of the music remained exceptionally clear, as no instrument type seemed to be covering the other. In relation to tuning over high, I seem to remember that in an article on tuning, Gordon Gregory suggested that relaxed people tend to tune too low, while tense people would tend to tune too high (I certainly read that somewhere, but not certain it was in Gordon's article). However, this coincides well with my own experience, as I always tend to tune too high, if I tune by ear (I would certainly not classify myself as relaxed). Relative brightness would be associated with increased emotional tension, which by some, might be felt as somehow a more exciting sound. Tuning too high, as Ed says, does result in out-of-tuneness, but it can also be considered as an over-bright tonal aberration. In relation to this (and the above), it is recorded in many hifi sites that a change from over bright distorting resistors and capacitors to better noise performance ones, initially results in the hifi enthusiasts feeling that the sound is less exciting (something is missing), before they finally realize they are suffering less listener's fatigue (could be the same with the change to better mics). Perhaps a piece played at 433 may therefore
[LUTE] Re: tuning fork at 433Hz?
This is very interesting to me, because an old friend recently alerted me to a new line of thinking claiming that 432Hz OUGHT to be true concert pitch. There are websites devoting a lot of space to articles and discussions about this. http://www.omega432.com/music.html http://www.solfeggiotones.com/432-hz/ http://radicalfilms.co.uk/2007/12/26/a-432hz-vs-a-440hz-a-sonic-experiment-fascinating/ People claim things like it FEELS better, or it's the harmonic frequency of the universe ... (New Age / Airy-Fairey ...) As a piano technician with perfect pitch, I'm pretty locked into 440. But it's fun to experiment with other pitches and temperments. Plus, I am human and cannot say that I'm ALWAYS spot on standard pitch, although I'm usually so close it doesn't matter. I still use a fork to set A4. But when it comes to tuning my lute or guitar I just ear it. I tune my lute low. Sometimes I tune my guitar a smidge higher when playing solo to get a brighter sound. In fact, that's one reason pitch has risen over the past few hundred years - more string tension = higher volume and brighter sound. Even today some orchestras tune to 442 -444, to take advantage of this effect. Anthony, if you ever decide you'd like to part with your 433 fork I'd be interested in having it. Then maybe I, too, can be in harmony with the universe! (Or close to it?) Tom Dear luthenists A friend gave me an amusing tuning fork, which is clearly of some age. I am not (here) in a position to be able to load a photo of it, but it fits into a tight wooden case, and at the end of this there is a hollow metal peg. I quickly realized that if you place the case on a table, and set the tuning fork ringing while holding it in the metal peg's hollow, the resonance is amplified. I measure the resonance as 433Hz. Would this be the London Philharmonic Orchestra pitch of 1826? This is what I read at http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-84975.html In 1939, an International Conference met in London and unanimously adopted 440 Hz as the standard frequency for the pitch A4, and that is the almost universal standard at present. Previously, the standard was A=435 (fixed, Paris Academy, 1859, as diapason normal; and confirmed, Vienna conference, 1885, as international pitch). The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) broadcasts a precise 440 Hz reference tone on its short wave radio station WWV (Along with time data). In the 1800's there was also Philharmonic Pitch, that of the London Philharmonic Orchestra. It varied from 1826, were A=433 Hz, and in 1845, was raised to A=455 Hz. Historically it has ranged from A=403 Hz to 567 Hz. !!! What do you think. The fork is unfortunately not perfect, having been effected by some rust, but I don't think this would explain the 433HZ. I was not intending to use it, but it is an entertaining looking (if no doubt useless) object. Regards Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: 2 Christmas Tunes
Fleece Navidad! I love it! Thanks David, Tom All right then, spirit of the season, or season of the spirit, never seem to get that one right. Here's what I have my pupils play this year: lots of strings involved, steel as well as gut, and with a bit of patience you will even see even a vihuela and baroque guitar (mindless strumming alert!) cross the road. No or historical evidence, I know, but harmless fun. Check out Rudolph for the antlers. http://youtu.be/Ne87errunrw David On 24 December 2011 07:53, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone! Uploaded to youtube 2 arrangements of Christmas Carols. Apologies for playing these on steel string guitar. I am working on adapting my arrangements for Renaissance lute. Soon I hope to intabulate and record them. I have 38 Christmas tunes arranged for guitar. Hope you like these: [1]http://youtu.be/pGUP-Moim9c [2]http://youtu.be/SB6wWLNjH-Q Compliments of the season! Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- References 1. http://youtu.be/pGUP-Moim9c 2. http://youtu.be/SB6wWLNjH-Q To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] 2 Christmas Tunes
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone! Uploaded to youtube 2 arrangements of Christmas Carols. Apologies for playing these on steel string guitar. I am working on adapting my arrangements for Renaissance lute. Soon I hope to intabulate and record them. I have 38 Christmas tunes arranged for guitar. Hope you like these: [1]http://youtu.be/pGUP-Moim9c [2]http://youtu.be/SB6wWLNjH-Q Compliments of the season! Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 -- References 1. http://youtu.be/pGUP-Moim9c 2. http://youtu.be/SB6wWLNjH-Q To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: English Folksongs in Appalachia
Thanks You Very Much Arthur! It is great to have this in PDF format. I am originally from North Carolina and I sing a lot of these ballads and songs. I have been studying English and Scottish Popular (Child) Ballads since 1978 and have recorded some of them on my CDs. Another of my artists on my label, Laura Berlage is also very interested in these, and we have recorded several on her CDs as well. We are currently working on a version of the Half Hitch. Given that we aren't book collectors - we just want the information for research - and that volumes like this are often priced beyond the means of normal musicians, this is very welcome. Thanks again! Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Tom Date sent: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:55:39 -0500 To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: A. J. Ness arthurjn...@verizon.net Subject:[LUTE] English Folksongs in Appalachia [1]https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicV iew. action?institutionalItemId=17076versionNumber=1 Some of you may be interested in this famous, large collection of Engflish folksongs collected ca. 1900 in Appalachia by Cecil Sharp. Sometimes the songs in America are purer than current versions in the British Isles. ajn -- References 1. https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView .action?institutionalItemId=17076versionNumber=1 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] English Ballads French Ballad and Song Equivalent
Many French folksongs found their way to North America with the early explorers and settlers of Canada and the northern US. Many of these have their origins in songs of jongleurs and date to the early Renaissance and the Middle Ages. Some of these found their way into canoes paddled by voyageurs during the North American fur trade era. http://www.heartistrymusic.com/catalog_items/canot.html I am compiling what I hope will be an exhaustive book on songs of the voyageurs. If I'm lucky, I will receive an NEH Stipends Grant to work on this in March or April. Cecil Sharp, Francis Child and Bertrand Bronson published authoratative research on English and Scottish ballads and songs. In Canada, Marius Barbeau began collecting with a cylinder recorder in 1916 and published the French-Canadian equivalent of Sharp's work on Appalachian collection. Is there a comprehensive work on ancient French ballads and songs from continental Europe? Title and author(s)? And are there such works for other European languages also? Many thanks in advance! Tom -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: strumming Gervaise
I think the comment about looking for the correct tempo by knowing how it was danced is spot-on. There are now quite a few Renaissance dances filmed and available on YouTube. Assuming that these troups are performing the dances correctly, an average tempo for a dance like #s 39 40, Bransle IIIand Bransle IV, would be somewhere between quarter note = 196 and 212 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNe-6EdsBo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnlfigRQlw As for MHO on strumming: four part arrangements for different voices / instruments lend themselves to chord changes on every beat when the arranger desires it. But this is not practical for chordophones. For actual dancers, the correct rhythm and tempo are paramount. Trying to strum a different chord on every beat at these tempos would be distracting in most dance situations and potentially ruinous. Better to accommodate the chord structure to the limitations of the instrument, and the harmonic rhythm to the rhythm of the dance. Playford is alright, but for these dances Thoinot Arbeau's Orchesography, published in 1589, may be even more enlightening. It shows how to dance bransles and gives reccomendations on tempos. (Available cheap from Amazon). No matter what, if you're actually playing for dancers, the rhythm and a rock-solid correct tempo are THE most important aspects. Everything else is secondary (yes- even the melody ;) Good dance players would have known particular dance melodies by memory, and would have known from experience how to strum to facilitate the dance. Like Ron Andrico said in his post - it ain't rocket science. It's a matter of really knowing the dance and what fits musically. Hope this helps, Tom Draughon How would a strummer strum chords to these tunes composed (arranged?) by Gervaise in the 1550s? http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/ They are strong melodies (Poulenc arranged some Gervaise dances for piano - but not these particular tunes). Maybe you just strum a chord according to the bass line. It's easy enough to work out what each chord would be. But playing at speed it would be formidably difficult to actually play them unless you were a Freddy Green-type professional. These Gervaise arrangements are in four parts and, as it stands, the bass is very easy to play as a single note. But really not so easy at all when the chords are changing very quickly. But it's often said that strummers strummed in these, and even earlier, times. And, if so, surely they would have strummed to accompany tunes like this. Would they have strummed a chord for each note as dictated by the rules of four part harmony? Or something simpler - but potentially more rhythmic? Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: Robert Dowland - Nolde thesis
On 27 July 2011 13:53, Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de wrote: It appears Robert had a brother, as his name is spelled Rogert Dowland on the title page of the thesis. ;-) Yes, in fact two brothers, Rogert and Over, I think they became pilots later..Copy that! David Make that THREE brothers - Rogert, Over and Out (the black sheep of the family). Tom -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Tres bon!! Very cool! Those pieces lie well on the uke. And are those your paintings in the background? Thanks Valérie! Tom P.S. I can easily envision those tunes being played on a medieval great pipe or a musette, or even scottish pipes. 6 notes and dorian melody - perfectly suited to diatonic instruments with a fixed range. I do love the trotto and saltarello too (many of us were invited to early music by Renbourn, even if he was far from HIP ;- My own NON hip version : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMvx8Szq2HY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT20LWwV0N4 Ukeval ;-) -Message d'origine- De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part de G. Crona Envoyé : mardi 12 juillet 2011 23:59 À : Lutelist Who of us players just couldn't just love his trotto suite and the dump? G. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
The idea that, to take one composer at random, JS Bach would have preferred a modern Bechstein grand is, of course, not new and this sort of case was used from the earliest days of the revival of interest in his music in the mid 19th century... True. Obviously, Bach, and all other composers of their respective eras, used the available resources of their times, and the best exploited all of the tonal possibilities of their instruments. I would not venture to say that Bach would have preferred a Bechstein (I've seen it written that he actually preferred the clavichord to harpsichord because it could play a range of dynamics). But I do think that, IF he had access to one AND IF he decided to write for it, he would have have exploited a Bechstein's tonal capabilities unlike anybody else. Tom --- On Tue, 12/7/11, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound' To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 12 July, 2011, 15:13 On 12 July 2011 04:15, [1]t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: I think that, if the old masters had possessed effects, they would have used them. .. and would have written different music which would have utilised these effects. Which is the whole point about HIP: using the means the old had at their disposal to create a sound that could have been in their ears when they wre writing their music. David -- *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=t...@heartistrymusic.co m 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooijen@gmail.c om 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Thanks! Yes, I've been a Renbourn fan since I was in high school (37 years ago!!). I've had the opportunity to watch him play in very small venues. His technique is impeccable. Trotto / Saltarello from his Lady and the Unicorn LP was the first thing I ever heard from him. I had been strumming Beatles and Cat Stevens songs for 9 years, and my older brother came home from college with the LP and a brotherly, Let's see you do that. OMG! My jaw dropped. I'm still trying to play like that - trying ... BTW, is it synchronicity ? Tom Hey Tom, its so strange that you should mention that particular Sarabande. Just the other day I watched a movie where it was the main musical theme, and I've been playing that one (in Segovia's arrangement) for as long as I can remember on the guitar. Its a highly evocative piece. I've been searching my mind the whole day for the correct name for such an ocurrence, (where something you have just experienced or said or thought about pops up simultaneously somewhere completely else. But the term evades me.help anyone?) And I'm definitely a dedicated Renbourne fan. He has done wonders for the appreciation of olde muzac. Who of us players just couldn't just love his trotto suite and the dump? G. - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound' This makes me think of a wonderful recording by John Renbourn of the famous Sarabande by J.S. Bach from Partita No.1 BWV 1002 for Unaccompanied Violin. He played it on an Epiphone Casino hollowbody electric guitar with tremelo and reverb. http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Unicorn-John-Renbourn/dp/B00E9F (The entire LP is wonderful.) Renbourn states on the liner notes that he was in no way trying to be historic, but to bsaically breathe new life into some ancient pieces. I think he succeeded. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362
[LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Hi Nancy, Thanks for the email. I'd love a copy of the interview. I should also talk with you about formally joining LSA : ) Tom I am also a big Renbourn fan and agree that he has great technique.Those early records of his were a big inspiration years ago. We published a nice interview with him in the LSA Quarterly a while back. I anyone does not have it email me and I can send you a copy. Nancy At 03:35 PM 7/12/2011, t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote: Thanks! Yes, I've been a Renbourn fan since I was in high school (37 years ago!!). I've had the opportunity to watch him play in very small venues. His technique is impeccable. Trotto / Saltarello from his Lady and the Unicorn LP was the first thing I ever heard from him. I had been strumming Beatles and Cat Stevens songs for 9 years, and my older brother came home from college with the LP and a brotherly, Let's see you do that. OMG! My jaw dropped.I'm still trying to play like that - trying ... BTW, is it synchronicity ? Tom Hey Tom, its so strange that you should mention that particular Sarabande. Just the other day I watched a movie where it was the main musical theme, and I've been playing that one (in Segovia's arrangement) for as long as I can remember on the guitar. Its a highly evocative piece. I've been searching my mind the whole day for the correct name for such an ocurrence, (where something you have just experienced or said or thought about pops up simultaneously somewhere completely else. But the term evades me.help anyone?) And I'm definitely a dedicated Renbourne fan. He has done wonders for the appreciation of olde muzac. Who of us players just couldn't just love his trotto suite and the dump? G. - Original Message - From: t...@heartistrymusic.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; G. Cronakalei...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound' This makes me think of a wonderful recording by John Renbourn of the famous Sarabande by J.S. Bach from Partita No.1 BWV 1002 for Unaccompanied Violin. He played it on an Epiphone Casino hollowbody electric guitar with tremelo and reverb. http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Unicorn-John-Renbourn/dp/B00E9F (The entire LP is wonderful.) Renbourn states on the liner notes that he was in no way trying to be historic, but to bsaically breathe new life into some ancient pieces. I think he succeeded. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - www.nancycarlinassociates.com www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe Jez Lowe The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths Morrongiello Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
