Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yeah, the watch thing is big for me.  I'm planning to get the new Apple Watch 
when it comes out, and as we all know, that speaks to continuing to use an 
iPhone.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Try Android at least before you judge.
> I sometimes am a bit tired as there seem to be no good accessible watch for 
> me using android ware.
> /A
> 
>> 2 sep. 2018 kl. 03:15 skrev 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Anders,
>> 
>> That was my experience back in 2010.  I would have hoped that things would 
>> have improved.  Part of what I'm wrestling with is whether to try a new OS, 
>> or just live with Apple.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
>>> To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
>>> I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
>>> computers.
>>> BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
>>> One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
>>> screenReader and its commands.
>>> Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
>>> But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
>>> Talkback are into Android.
>>> If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>>> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
>>>> 
>>>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>>>> 
>>>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>>>> 
>>>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>>>> 
>>>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>>>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type 
>>>> apps on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 
>>>> 9.
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> 
>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do 
>>>>> the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate 
>>>>> how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's 
>>>>> their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available 
>>>>> for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new 
>>>>> flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home 
>>>>> button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
>>>>> power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
>>>>> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I 
>>>>> feel it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, 
>>>>> or at least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they 
>>>>> are not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/31/

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
The Bloatware can be easily removed with an adb hack.
At least that’s what i have read.
Nokia is a good phone but the screen acts a bit strange upon touble tapping 
with talkback.
You have to be quite smooth with the finger when you do that.
/A

> 3 sep. 2018 kl. 11:08 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Hi donna 
> 
> Yes Samsung make great phones / tablets,
> 
> However they have a mass amount of bloatware in their phones 
> I'd suggest having a look at the nexus range, google and lg have done good 
> things with those,
> 
> I'm not sure about the nokia devices but hey who knows they do sound 
> interesting.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Monday, 3 September 2018 4:54 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> I agree.  I think if I go Android Samsung would be my first choice.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:57 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I would go samsung if I was doing android but that's just me. they 
>> have three finger gestures and all. the magic tap to stop and play 
>> music works just fine. So my Iphone 7plus will go nicely with my s10 
>> next year.
>> 
>> On 9/1/18, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>>> I tried Android a year ago, using the latest, greatest, phone by 
>>> Google! The Pixel phone, the most pure Android experience ever! And it 
>>> still sucked.
>>> TalkBack is a lackluster screen reader, created by the Android 
>>> Accessibility team, who can't do much because no one else on the Android 
>>> team cares.
>>> Really, you should see the eyes-free list, and Victor's comments on 
>>> feature requests. "We cannot at this point do that, because the 
>>> accessibility API's won't allow that." This is what is said about 
>>> multifinger gestures and all kinds of other things that TalkBack 
>>> doesn't have, like the ability to start and stop music and such. 
>>> Then, you have people with low vision that use Talkback that are fine 
>>> with how poor it is right now because they don't need it, always 
>>> drowning out any messages asking for progress, because they don't 
>>> want Braille, multifinger gestures would mess with their magnifier 
>>> app, and Android is just perfectly fine the way it is. Oh and no more 
>>> editing commands because we don't need JAWS for Android because it's 
>>> so big and slow. And if anyone asks for a new feature, the android 
>>> fans don't want it because it should be a toggle but Talkback 
>>> developers aren't good at making toggles so my goodness just don't do 
>>> it and leave my TalkBack alone and go back to the fruitveil and the iphone! 
>>> Yes, the Android blind users are quite a crew.
>>> Oh, and you know how Android is so great for choice? Now, many on the 
>>> Eyes-free list only suggest "pure" android, which means getting the 
>>> overpriced Google Pixel. Yes, all those other phones? Nah, they're 
>>> probably inaccessible because stupid phone makers have to use their 
>>> freedom with Android to put all kinds of crap on it. So yeah just get 
>>> a Pixel or whatever. So yeah, all that choice, and its nearly no 
>>> choice at all. Also, you hear that you can use any screen reader on 
>>> Android you want. Lol Shine-plus, the only alternative that has been 
>>> updated in the last few years, hasn't been updated in a year or more.
>>> Finally, my favorite, braille! If you love braille as much as I do, 
>>> don't get Android. BrailleBack, which must be downloaded and 
>>> installed, has poor support for Android controls and app usage, 
>>> doesn't support many braille displays unless you have one of the beta 
>>> builds floating around, released by a Google employee who does care 
>>> but isn't able to make things better regarding braille, and since it 
>>> relies on TalkBack for everything, you can't just have silent, 
>>> peaceful braille... Unless you do the totally inelegant process of 
>>> turning down your phone, turning off the vibration feedback, and 
>>> hoping you don't miss an important phone call because you were too 
>>> busy turning up your volume then trying to slide up with two fingers 
>>> in the right position to answer the call because TalkBack forces the 
>>> blind to try to conform with sighted users on things like answering 
>>> calls, dismissing notifications, and anything a tap can't do, which 
>>> is increasingly a lot of things. Darn Android accessibil

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I think that VoiceOver is more implemented into the system and that’s why it is 
better and easier to use.
You can’t even remove VoiceOver from your Phone even though you ry so hard.
Talkback can be removed quite easy .
/A

> 3 sep. 2018 kl. 11:00 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Es Yes this is my feelings as well.
> 
> Android still has a way to go but lets face it apple aren't makin a lot of 
> changes currently but I still find IOS more usable for myself than the 
> android platform.
> 
> Although I keep trying to learn but it's not easy trying to forget.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 10:50 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> I agree with your caution, Donna.  I’ve been tentatively trying out Android 
> for a couple of years now but never have I thought yet I’d move entirely to 
> Android because I find the gestures in TalkBack much less responsive, and 
> tasks take longer to accomplish too.  Most of all, I don’t feel as 
> sure-footed using Android as I do iPhone.  It may well be due to the fact 
> that I’ve not tried hard enough yet.  But I think it’s good for me to learn 
> another OS slowly, trying it on cheaper Android running smart phones, and one 
> can get a decent Android phone for about £200 or less, especially in the US.  
> VoiceOver is in my opinion far superior at the moment.  there are for example 
> still issues about activating TalkBack for the first time when setting up a 
> new phone, which we do not have with VoiceOver.  I guess since Android is 
> much less controlled in terms of software and hardware, there are bound to be 
> differences.  For multilingual users, for instance, iphone automatic language 
> switching and the features that rotor offers are unparalleled.  On Android 
> one has at the moment to utilise a piece of software Auto TTS to accomplish 
> this.  I just feel that at present Voiceover is much more nimble and its 
> responses quite steady and predictable.  But Google is slowly catching up and 
> Android may well become a very serious rival as far as visually impaired 
> users go.
> 
> Andrew
>> On Sep 2, 2018, at 2:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
>> serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching 
>> OSes.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> 
>>> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s 
>>> moved on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love 
>>> with it slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>>>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>>>> then.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>>>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>>> form of ID verification.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase 
>>>>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big 
>>>>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> [mai

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi donna 

Yes Samsung make great phones / tablets,

 However they have a mass amount of bloatware in their phones 
I'd suggest having a look at the nexus range, google and lg have done good 
things with those,

I'm not sure about the nokia devices but hey who knows they do sound 
interesting.

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2018 4:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I agree.  I think if I go Android Samsung would be my first choice.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:57 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> I would go samsung if I was doing android but that's just me. they 
> have three finger gestures and all. the magic tap to stop and play 
> music works just fine. So my Iphone 7plus will go nicely with my s10 
> next year.
> 
> On 9/1/18, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
>> I tried Android a year ago, using the latest, greatest, phone by 
>> Google! The Pixel phone, the most pure Android experience ever! And it still 
>> sucked.
>> TalkBack is a lackluster screen reader, created by the Android 
>> Accessibility team, who can't do much because no one else on the Android 
>> team cares.
>> Really, you should see the eyes-free list, and Victor's comments on 
>> feature requests. "We cannot at this point do that, because the 
>> accessibility API's won't allow that." This is what is said about 
>> multifinger gestures and all kinds of other things that TalkBack 
>> doesn't have, like the ability to start and stop music and such. 
>> Then, you have people with low vision that use Talkback that are fine 
>> with how poor it is right now because they don't need it, always 
>> drowning out any messages asking for progress, because they don't 
>> want Braille, multifinger gestures would mess with their magnifier 
>> app, and Android is just perfectly fine the way it is. Oh and no more 
>> editing commands because we don't need JAWS for Android because it's 
>> so big and slow. And if anyone asks for a new feature, the android 
>> fans don't want it because it should be a toggle but Talkback 
>> developers aren't good at making toggles so my goodness just don't do 
>> it and leave my TalkBack alone and go back to the fruitveil and the iphone! 
>> Yes, the Android blind users are quite a crew.
>> Oh, and you know how Android is so great for choice? Now, many on the 
>> Eyes-free list only suggest "pure" android, which means getting the 
>> overpriced Google Pixel. Yes, all those other phones? Nah, they're 
>> probably inaccessible because stupid phone makers have to use their 
>> freedom with Android to put all kinds of crap on it. So yeah just get 
>> a Pixel or whatever. So yeah, all that choice, and its nearly no 
>> choice at all. Also, you hear that you can use any screen reader on 
>> Android you want. Lol Shine-plus, the only alternative that has been 
>> updated in the last few years, hasn't been updated in a year or more.
>> Finally, my favorite, braille! If you love braille as much as I do, 
>> don't get Android. BrailleBack, which must be downloaded and 
>> installed, has poor support for Android controls and app usage, 
>> doesn't support many braille displays unless you have one of the beta 
>> builds floating around, released by a Google employee who does care 
>> but isn't able to make things better regarding braille, and since it 
>> relies on TalkBack for everything, you can't just have silent, 
>> peaceful braille... Unless you do the totally inelegant process of 
>> turning down your phone, turning off the vibration feedback, and 
>> hoping you don't miss an important phone call because you were too 
>> busy turning up your volume then trying to slide up with two fingers 
>> in the right position to answer the call because TalkBack forces the 
>> blind to try to conform with sighted users on things like answering 
>> calls, dismissing notifications, and anything a tap can't do, which 
>> is increasingly a lot of things. Darn Android accessibility API's, 
>> which the Android accessibility team don't seem to have much control over. 
>> Ah well, just get a Pixel and like it. Love it, even. Because it's Google.
>> There are a  few things that I do like about Android phones, ... Oh, 
>> just the Samsung ones, right. Google definitely won't like hearing 
>> that. But, the current Samsung phones, the S9 I am sure, have Dolby 
>> Atmos support, meaning that you can use 3D, surround, audio when listening 
>> to movies or music.
>> Apple does not have this yet, of course, but they will have it in 
>> their apple TV

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Tim,

Yeah it was odd as an increase in volum wouldn’t get it back either.

Strange what ever they did.

Yeah I’ve had it told to me by an apple tech that they removed the tone at the 
firmware level so it’s not possible at this point to reenable it.

Shame really they’ve taken away a great accessibility feature

From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2018 3:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi Simon,

In those cases, the user wasn't specifically muting the startup chime.  What 
they were doing was muting or decreasing the system volume which inadvertently 
affected the chime for you.  The level of the system volume is stored in the 
nvRAM, or pRAM in oder models, along with some other system settings.  So, if 
the level was at 0 or muted by the user prior to shutdown, the system would 
keep it at that level after restart.  I'm wondering if the chime generator has 
been removed totally and that's why the previous software modification no 
longer works.  There is potential though, if I think about it as messing with 
the nvRAM is actually doable, whereas firmware is extremely difficult.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 22:34, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi Tim,

Like donna I’d rather have the option to turn it on / off, and that doesn’t 
need to be a firmware feature surely?

I know in previous devices it could be muted and unmuted.

From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 1:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna



On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net<mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.



On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna



On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown 
mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.



On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
wrote:
Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature rem

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

And it’s a firmware change not an os change.



From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2018 2:55 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi Shawn,

That's probably only a temporary solution and not necessarily practical.  The 
silent startup is slowly migrating across Mac models.  The iMac no longer has 
the startup chime as well as the MacBook Pro.  If a hardware upgrade is in the 
works for the MBA at all, it's entirely possible that it also could lose the 
chime.  In addition, the MacBook Air isn't necessarily powerful enough for 
certain users and use cases, so choosing to purchase an Air just to have a 
startup chime may present other problems that are more difficult or impossible 
to work around.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 2, 2018, at 02:43, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Simple solution here people. If you want the startup chime back, get an Air. 
It's still there.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>


On Sep 1, 2018, at 11:41 PM, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

The start up chime is not an accessibility feature,

It is a company feature.

It has slightly changed over the years,
And has been used in movies
I believe that apple didn't  take it in to account at how we used it as a 
notification feature that he machine was coming on.
I'm guessing that if we contacted them enough about it they would start looking 
at it again once we all started explaining what it was good for.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 3:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick that 
Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup process..

I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.

It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to provide 
some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but to remove 
the startup chime from the computers as well?

Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are they 
doing?

You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that brings 
me.

I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime issue, 
as an accessibility feature, to https://www.apple.com/feedback

Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?

I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll be 
delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, they 
do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove Touch ID 
from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really do love 
this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be sold for 
those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.

Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be ready 
for Apple primetime.

Just my opinion, of course.

Mark


From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi,

With

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Es Yes this is my feelings as well.

 Android still has a way to go but lets face it apple aren't makin a lot of 
changes currently but I still find IOS more usable for myself than the android 
platform.

Although I keep trying to learn but it's not easy trying to forget.

-Original Message-
From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 10:50 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I agree with your caution, Donna.  I’ve been tentatively trying out Android for 
a couple of years now but never have I thought yet I’d move entirely to Android 
because I find the gestures in TalkBack much less responsive, and tasks take 
longer to accomplish too.  Most of all, I don’t feel as sure-footed using 
Android as I do iPhone.  It may well be due to the fact that I’ve not tried 
hard enough yet.  But I think it’s good for me to learn another OS slowly, 
trying it on cheaper Android running smart phones, and one can get a decent 
Android phone for about £200 or less, especially in the US.  VoiceOver is in my 
opinion far superior at the moment.  there are for example still issues about 
activating TalkBack for the first time when setting up a new phone, which we do 
not have with VoiceOver.  I guess since Android is much less controlled in 
terms of software and hardware, there are bound to be differences.  For 
multilingual users, for instance, iphone automatic language switching and the 
features that rotor offers are unparalleled.  On Android one has at the moment 
to utilise a piece of software Auto TTS to accomplish this.  I just feel that 
at present Voiceover is much more nimble and its responses quite steady and 
predictable.  But Google is slowly catching up and Android may well become a 
very serious rival as far as visually impaired users go.

Andrew
> On Sep 2, 2018, at 2:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
> serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching 
> OSes.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> 
>> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s 
>> moved on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love 
>> with it slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>>> then.
>>> 
>>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Donna,
>>>> 
>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>> form of ID verification.  
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>>> 
>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>>> 
>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase 
>>>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big 
>>>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>> tried, and do not lik

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

drive.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
>> your point, but just asking.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user 
>>> specific.  That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be 
>>> modified by the enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security 
>>> thing and is partially why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  
>>> Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending them as I would much prefer 
>>> that the chime remain active, just need to make things clear.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Simon,
>>> 
>>> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could 
>>> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the 
>>> decision for themselves.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty >>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>> Yes I agree,
>>>> 
>>>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then 
>>>> tell us what we want.
>>>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. 
>>>> I’d like to know why they stopped it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Simon Fogarty
>>>> Dunedin, NZ
>>>> 
>>>> Em: si...@fogarty.net <mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do 
>>>>> the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate 
>>>>> how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's 
>>>>> their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available 
>>>>> for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new 
>>>>> flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home 
>>>>> button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
>>>>> power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
>>>>> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I 
>>>>> feel it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, 
>>>>> or at least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they 
>>>>> are not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown >>>>> <mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>&

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Try Android at least before you judge.
I sometimes am a bit tired as there seem to be no good accessible watch for me 
using android ware.
/A

> 2 sep. 2018 kl. 03:15 skrev 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Hi Anders,
> 
> That was my experience back in 2010.  I would have hoped that things would 
> have improved.  Part of what I'm wrestling with is whether to try a new OS, 
> or just live with Apple.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
>> To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
>> I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
>> computers.
>> BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
>> One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
>> screenReader and its commands.
>> Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
>> But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
>> Talkback are into Android.
>> If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>>> 
>>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>>> 
>>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>>> 
>>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
>>> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up 
>>>> for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be 
>>>> it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small 
>>>> though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my 
>>>> next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>> 
>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   I am going to chime in. (smiles) Yes, finances permitting, one has 
options. But


   Emotions take over rather than reason. What about advocacy? Remember 
the iPhone headphone jack? The reaction to that news was unreasonable. 
The startup chime is different, it can be restored. Start a write in 
campaign. Leave the emotional diatribes out of it. Reason can save the day.


   Now if someone disagrees, why then, jump the fence and give me that 
new chime-less MBP. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/2/2018 11:09 AM, M. Taylor wrote:

I want to make it clear that in no way am I suggesting that anyone switch to or 
from Android.

I was merely stating that I believe that one should always keep as many options 
open as possible.  When it comes to Smartphones, for me, an extremely viable 
option is Android or rather, the Samsung flagship phones using Samsung's 
built-in screen reader.

As I have always stated, I see no reason why one should choose one or the 
other; instead, finances permitting, use both platforms in order to enjoy the 
best of both worlds.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 9:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I agree.  I think if I go Android Samsung would be my first choice.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:57 PM, lenron brown  wrote:

I would go samsung if I was doing android but that's just me. they
have three finger gestures and all. the magic tap to stop and play
music works just fine. So my Iphone 7plus will go nicely with my s10
next year.

On 9/1/18, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:

I tried Android a year ago, using the latest, greatest, phone by
Google! The Pixel phone, the most pure Android experience ever! And it still 
sucked.
TalkBack is a lackluster screen reader, created by the Android
Accessibility team, who can't do much because no one else on the Android team 
cares.
Really, you should see the eyes-free list, and Victor's comments on
feature requests. "We cannot at this point do that, because the
accessibility API's won't allow that." This is what is said about
multifinger gestures and all kinds of other things that TalkBack
doesn't have, like the ability to start and stop music and such.
Then, you have people with low vision that use Talkback that are fine
with how poor it is right now because they don't need it, always
drowning out any messages asking for progress, because they don't
want Braille, multifinger gestures would mess with their magnifier
app, and Android is just perfectly fine the way it is. Oh and no more
editing commands because we don't need JAWS for Android because it's
so big and slow. And if anyone asks for a new feature, the android
fans don't want it because it should be a toggle but Talkback
developers aren't good at making toggles so my goodness just don't do
it and leave my TalkBack alone and go back to the fruitveil and the iphone! 
Yes, the Android blind users are quite a crew.
Oh, and you know how Android is so great for choice? Now, many on the
Eyes-free list only suggest "pure" android, which means getting the
overpriced Google Pixel. Yes, all those other phones? Nah, they're
probably inaccessible because stupid phone makers have to use their
freedom with Android to put all kinds of crap on it. So yeah just get
a Pixel or whatever. So yeah, all that choice, and its nearly no
choice at all. Also, you hear that you can use any screen reader on
Android you want. Lol Shine-plus, the only alternative that has been
updated in the last few years, hasn't been updated in a year or more.
Finally, my favorite, braille! If you love braille as much as I do,
don't get Android. BrailleBack, which must be downloaded and
installed, has poor support for Android controls and app usage,
doesn't support many braille displays unless you have one of the beta
builds floating around, released by a Google employee who does care
but isn't able to make things better regarding braille, and since it
relies on TalkBack for everything, you can't just have silent,
peaceful braille... Unless you do the totally inelegant process of
turning down your phone, turning off the vibration feedback, and
hoping you don't miss an important phone call because you were too
busy turning up your volume then trying to slide up with two fingers
in the right position to answer the call because TalkBack forces the
blind to try to conform with sighted users on things like answering
calls, dismissing notifications, and anything a tap can't do, which
is increasingly a lot of things. Darn Android accessibility API's,
which the Android accessibility team don't seem to have much control over. Ah 
well, just get a Pixel and like it. Love it, even. Because it's Google.
There are a  few things that I d

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[M. Taylor]

I want to make it clear that in no way am I suggesting that anyone switch to or 
from Android.  

I was merely stating that I believe that one should always keep as many options 
open as possible.  When it comes to Smartphones, for me, an extremely viable 
option is Android or rather, the Samsung flagship phones using Samsung's 
built-in screen reader.  

As I have always stated, I see no reason why one should choose one or the 
other; instead, finances permitting, use both platforms in order to enjoy the 
best of both worlds.  

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 9:54 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I agree.  I think if I go Android Samsung would be my first choice.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:57 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> I would go samsung if I was doing android but that's just me. they 
> have three finger gestures and all. the magic tap to stop and play 
> music works just fine. So my Iphone 7plus will go nicely with my s10 
> next year.
> 
> On 9/1/18, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
>> I tried Android a year ago, using the latest, greatest, phone by 
>> Google! The Pixel phone, the most pure Android experience ever! And it still 
>> sucked.
>> TalkBack is a lackluster screen reader, created by the Android 
>> Accessibility team, who can't do much because no one else on the Android 
>> team cares.
>> Really, you should see the eyes-free list, and Victor's comments on 
>> feature requests. "We cannot at this point do that, because the 
>> accessibility API's won't allow that." This is what is said about 
>> multifinger gestures and all kinds of other things that TalkBack 
>> doesn't have, like the ability to start and stop music and such. 
>> Then, you have people with low vision that use Talkback that are fine 
>> with how poor it is right now because they don't need it, always 
>> drowning out any messages asking for progress, because they don't 
>> want Braille, multifinger gestures would mess with their magnifier 
>> app, and Android is just perfectly fine the way it is. Oh and no more 
>> editing commands because we don't need JAWS for Android because it's 
>> so big and slow. And if anyone asks for a new feature, the android 
>> fans don't want it because it should be a toggle but Talkback 
>> developers aren't good at making toggles so my goodness just don't do 
>> it and leave my TalkBack alone and go back to the fruitveil and the iphone! 
>> Yes, the Android blind users are quite a crew.
>> Oh, and you know how Android is so great for choice? Now, many on the 
>> Eyes-free list only suggest "pure" android, which means getting the 
>> overpriced Google Pixel. Yes, all those other phones? Nah, they're 
>> probably inaccessible because stupid phone makers have to use their 
>> freedom with Android to put all kinds of crap on it. So yeah just get 
>> a Pixel or whatever. So yeah, all that choice, and its nearly no 
>> choice at all. Also, you hear that you can use any screen reader on 
>> Android you want. Lol Shine-plus, the only alternative that has been 
>> updated in the last few years, hasn't been updated in a year or more.
>> Finally, my favorite, braille! If you love braille as much as I do, 
>> don't get Android. BrailleBack, which must be downloaded and 
>> installed, has poor support for Android controls and app usage, 
>> doesn't support many braille displays unless you have one of the beta 
>> builds floating around, released by a Google employee who does care 
>> but isn't able to make things better regarding braille, and since it 
>> relies on TalkBack for everything, you can't just have silent, 
>> peaceful braille... Unless you do the totally inelegant process of 
>> turning down your phone, turning off the vibration feedback, and 
>> hoping you don't miss an important phone call because you were too 
>> busy turning up your volume then trying to slide up with two fingers 
>> in the right position to answer the call because TalkBack forces the 
>> blind to try to conform with sighted users on things like answering 
>> calls, dismissing notifications, and anything a tap can't do, which 
>> is increasingly a lot of things. Darn Android accessibility API's, 
>> which the Android accessibility team don't seem to have much control over. 
>> Ah well, just get a Pixel and like it. Love it, even. Because it's Google.
>> There are a  few things that I do like about Android phones, ... Oh, 
>> just the Samsung ones, right. Google definitely won't like he

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[M. Taylor]

Hello Karen,

Yes, the startup and shutdown vibratory feedback is built into all Android 
phones.  The feedback is a function of Android.

This thread is kind of going beyond its original scope but I will add here that 
I have owned several different brands of Android devices since 2010 and my 
favorite company is Samsung and my favorite screen reader for Android is the 
native Samsung screen reader, not Google Talkback. 

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 9:03 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi Mark, Tim, and others.
Finally decided to read some of this thread.
Apple has done what?
Besides the start up sound being an accessibility feature, it is part of 
Apple's popular culture presence.
I cannot tell you how often  in a production studio, music and radio where 
engineers have sung with the start up tone...I am serious!
Then there is the peace of mind that tone gives, to everyone, that all is well 
with the machine, as in you can work on other stuff without checking the 
monitor, knowing that after your Mac sings to you,  its getting ready as well. 
Speaking only for myself, it is one of the only reasons I have ever considered 
getting a mac at all.  I never use windows, partly for this reason, there is no 
way to know when things are ready for my attention, being used to DOS that 
matters a great deal.
So, I stand with Mark here, not only file accessibility feedback, but call them!
sometimes a human voice can make a true difference.
If you have a good relationship with our local store, call them or visit them 
too.
May I ask the last Mac, either desktop or laptop that comes with the sound?
Further Mark, your peace of mind comment  regarding Android phones.  does it  
extend to all of them?
I echo dona's  comment  well Tim's as well.  Android may b everywhere, but it 
is by no means consistent, especially where Accessibility is concerned.
Not everyone needing access is going to join a list like this, we still fall  
rather short of projecting that different access is not tied with disabled.
Lots will visit a store and ask about the accessibility...and get any number of 
stories about its existence, its function, its ability to enhance  a lifestyle.
I do not use a smart phone for this reason to this day.  Well technically one 
of mine is sort of smart, but it has buttons, not a touch screen.
almost got one, an Android  Motorola phone, because Motorola used to bend over 
backwards sharing accessibility information.
Then google bought Motorola, broke, it, and sold it.
Speaking only for myself, because choosing a safe voice  must be done first, I 
cannot even consider an android phone because  unlike with Apple I cannot walk 
into a store after making an appointment,  sit down with a reasonably aware 
person, and test drive the voices before i even consider the rest.
Anyway, count me in  contacting apple about the start up tone.
Karen




On Sat, 1 Sep 2018, M. Taylor wrote:

> Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick 
> that Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup 
> process..
>
> I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
> seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
> moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.
>
> It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to 
> provide some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but 
> to remove the startup chime from the computers as well?
>
> Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are 
> they doing?
>
> You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
> receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that 
> brings me.
>
> I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup 
> chime issue, as an accessibility feature, to 
> https://www.apple.com/feedback
>
> Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?
>
> I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
> reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll 
> be delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, 
> they do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove 
> Touch ID from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really 
> do love this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be 
> sold for those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.
>
> Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be 
> ready for Apple primetime.
>
> Just my opinion, of course.
>
> Mark
>
>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Could be, but it also may be that things just haven't changed that much.  I 
think Devon's comments are probably on target.  I don't think Talk Back is as 
much of a priority for Google, and I think the blind user group is pretty 
fragmented.  At least it was when last I was paying attention.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 2, 2018, at 5:49 AM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I agree with your caution, Donna.  I’ve been tentatively trying out Android 
> for a couple of years now but never have I thought yet I’d move entirely to 
> Android because I find the gestures in TalkBack much less responsive, and 
> tasks take longer to accomplish too.  Most of all, I don’t feel as 
> sure-footed using Android as I do iPhone.  It may well be due to the fact 
> that I’ve not tried hard enough yet.  But I think it’s good for me to learn 
> another OS slowly, trying it on cheaper Android running smart phones, and one 
> can get a decent Android phone for about £200 or less, especially in the US.  
> VoiceOver is in my opinion far superior at the moment.  there are for example 
> still issues about activating TalkBack for the first time when setting up a 
> new phone, which we do not have with VoiceOver.  I guess since Android is 
> much less controlled in terms of software and hardware, there are bound to be 
> differences.  For multilingual users, for instance, iphone automatic language 
> switching and the features that rotor offers are unparalleled.  On Android 
> one has at the moment to utilise a piece of software Auto TTS to accomplish 
> this.  I just feel that at present Voiceover is much more nimble and its 
> responses quite steady and predictable.  But Google is slowly catching up and 
> Android may well become a very serious rival as far as visually impaired 
> users go.
> 
> Andrew
>> On Sep 2, 2018, at 2:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
>> serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching 
>> OSes.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> 
>>> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s 
>>> moved on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love 
>>> with it slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>>>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>>>> then.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>>>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>>> form of ID verification.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase 
>>>>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big 
>>>>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models woul

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I know, Leo.  Not saying I'd definitely go Android, just that I'm thinking 
about it more than I used to.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 2, 2018, at 5:27 AM, Leo Bado  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I would say this shortly, I really wish You the best experience with android,
> 
> but android platform and ios platform are two diferent galaxys.
> 
> Believe me, I agree with You in some aspects about what You said before about 
> apple but switch to android because of this will bring You what I believe 
> will be waste of money and time.
> 
> Sorry if anyone is offended, this is my particular point of view when I 
> compare these two platforms.
> 
> In order to master an android device You will need to take a deep breath, be 
> really patient, have a lot of free time and finally being really really 
> curious to find tweaks and tricks that are not in any written manual.
> 
> Just my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Leo Bado
> 
> El 01/09/2018 a las 19:21, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries escribió:
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
>> serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching 
>> OSes.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> 
>>> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s 
>>> moved on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love 
>>> with it slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>>>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>>>> then.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>>>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>>> form of ID verification.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase 
>>>>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big 
>>>>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do 
>>>>> the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate 
>>>>> how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's 
>>>>> their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available 
>>&g

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

gt;>>> 
>>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor >>>>>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Donna,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.
>>>>>>> I just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a
>>>>>>> trusted form of ID verification.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and
>>>>>>> we all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to
>>>>>>> purchase and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes
>>>>>>> this big brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated
>>>>>>> with Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would
>>>>>>> include an option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes
>>>>>>> significantly longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.
>>>>>>> I'm feeling resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a
>>>>>>> technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.
>>>>>>> I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three
>>>>>>> cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy
>>>>>>> that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't
>>>>>>> want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If
>>>>>>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion
>>>>>>> of more convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they
>>>>>>> should have kept a touch option available for those of us who tried
>>>>>>> face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It
>>>>>>> sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it actual
>>>>>>> or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it
>>>>>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next
>>>>>>> phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I
>>>>>>> feel it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime
>>>>>>> enabled, or at least make it an option for those who want it?  Why
>>>>>>> should Apple be deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an
>>>>>>> argument that they are not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no
>>>>>>> better than the rest.
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown >>>>>>> <mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty >>>>>>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi sh

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

> up with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup
>>> process.  Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to
>>> hold down special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is
>>> accessed right away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific
>>> items are accessed after the OS begins loading from the drive.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I
>>> take your point, but just asking.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user
>>>> specific.  That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be
>>>> modified by the enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security
>>>> thing and is partially why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.
>>>> Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending them as I would much prefer
>>>> that the chime remain active, just need to make things clear.
>>>> 
>>>> Later...
>>>> 
>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hey Simon,
>>>> 
>>>> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could
>>>> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the
>>>> decision for themselves.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>>> Yes I agree,
>>>>> 
>>>>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then
>>>>> tell us what we want.
>>>>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years.
>>>>> I’d like to know why they stopped it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simon Fogarty
>>>>> Dunedin, NZ
>>>>> 
>>>>> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated
>>>>>> with Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would
>>>>>> include an option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes
>>>>>> significantly longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.
>>>>>> I'm feeling resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a
>>>>>> technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.
>>>>>> I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three
>>>>>> cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy that
>>>>>> makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want
>>>>>> some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple
>>>>>> wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more
>>>>>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should
>>>>>> have kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID
>>>>>> and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks,
>>>>>> too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it actual or
>>>>>> virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it may
>>>>>> be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone
>>>>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I
>>>>>> feel it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled,
>>>>>> or at least make it an option 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown >>>> <mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty >>>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that 
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com><mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se><mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se 
>>>>>> <mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>> Found this link.
>>>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> <https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/>
>>>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>>>> /A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com><mailto:si...@blinky-net.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Listers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book 
>>>>>> Pro
>>>>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>>>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>>>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us 
>>>>>> all,
>>>>>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to 
>>>>>> explain
>>>>>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight 
>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>>>>>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on 
>>>>>> mains
>>>>>> power when I don't need to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns ab

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Karen Lewellen]

Simon is totally correct.
The start up sound is a major major part of  Apple's place in popular 
culture.

Steve Jobs would never have had it removed for this reason.
Remember the very first Apple super bowl commercial used "start me up," by 
the Rolling Stones, calling attention  to what happens when you turn on a

 Mac.
Kare



On Sun, 2 Sep 2018, Simon Fogarty wrote:


The start up chime is not an accessibility feature,

It is a company feature.

It has slightly changed over the years,
And has been used in movies
I believe that apple didn't  take it in to account at how we used it as a 
notification feature that he machine was coming on.
I'm guessing that if we contacted them enough about it they would start looking 
at it again once we all started explaining what it was good for.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 3:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick that 
Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup process..

I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.

It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to provide 
some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but to remove 
the startup chime from the computers as well?

Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are they 
doing?

You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that brings 
me.

I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime issue, 
as an accessibility feature, to https://www.apple.com/feedback

Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?

I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll be 
delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, they 
do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove Touch ID 
from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really do love 
this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be sold for 
those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.

Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be ready 
for Apple primetime.

Just my opinion, of course.

Mark


From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net.


On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was rea

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Mark, Tim, and others.
Finally decided to read some of this thread.
Apple has done what?
Besides the start up sound being an accessibility feature, it is part of 
Apple's popular culture presence.
I cannot tell you how often  in a production studio, music and radio where 
engineers have sung with the start up tone...I am serious!
Then there is the peace of mind that tone gives, to everyone, that all is 
well with the machine, as in you can work on other stuff without checking 
the monitor, knowing that after your Mac sings to you,  its getting ready 
as well. Speaking only for myself, it is one of the only reasons I have 
ever 
considered getting a mac at all.  I never use windows, partly for this 
reason, there is no way to know when things are ready for my attention, 
being used to DOS that matters a great deal.
So, I stand with Mark here, not only file accessibility feedback, but call 
them!

sometimes a human voice can make a true difference.
If you have a good relationship with our local store, call them or visit 
them too.
May I ask the last Mac, either desktop or laptop that comes with the 
sound?
Further Mark, your peace of mind comment  regarding Android phones.  does 
it  extend to all of them?
I echo dona's  comment  well Tim's as well.  Android may b everywhere, 
but it is by no means consistent, especially where Accessibility is 
concerned.
Not everyone needing access is going to join a list like this, we still 
fall  rather short of projecting that different access is not tied with 
disabled.
Lots will visit a store and ask about the accessibility...and get any 
number of stories about its existence, its function, its ability to 
enhance  a lifestyle.
I do not use a smart phone for this reason to this day.  Well technically 
one of mine is sort of smart, but it has buttons, not a touch screen.
almost got one, an Android  Motorola phone, because Motorola used to bend 
over backwards sharing accessibility information.

Then google bought Motorola, broke, it, and sold it.
Speaking only for myself, because choosing a safe voice  must be done 
first, I cannot even consider an android phone because  unlike with Apple 
I cannot walk into a store after making an appointment,  sit down with a 
reasonably aware person, and test drive the voices before i even consider 
the rest.

Anyway, count me in  contacting apple about the start up tone.
Karen




On Sat, 1 Sep 2018, M. Taylor wrote:


Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick that 
Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup process..

I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.

It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to provide 
some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but to remove 
the startup chime from the computers as well?

Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are they 
doing?

You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that brings 
me.

I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime issue, 
as an accessibility feature, to
https://www.apple.com/feedback

Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?

I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll be 
delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, they 
do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove Touch ID 
from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really do love 
this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be sold for 
those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.

Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be ready 
for Apple primetime.

Just my opinion, of course.

Mark


From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Simon,

In those cases, the user wasn't specifically muting the startup chime.  What 
they were doing was muting or decreasing the system volume which inadvertently 
affected the chime for you.  The level of the system volume is stored in the 
nvRAM, or pRAM in oder models, along with some other system settings.  So, if 
the level was at 0 or muted by the user prior to shutdown, the system would 
keep it at that level after restart.  I'm wondering if the chime generator has 
been removed totally and that's why the previous software modification no 
longer works.  There is potential though, if I think about it as messing with 
the nvRAM is actually doable, whereas firmware is extremely difficult.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 22:34, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Tim,
 
Like donna I’d rather have the option to turn it on / off, and that doesn’t 
need to be a firmware feature surely?
 
I know in previous devices it could be muted and unmuted.
 
From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 1:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
 
Hi,
 
With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:
 
Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net <mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.


On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna


On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.


On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
wrote:
Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.

Oh well, other people can keep trying.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasni

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Shawn,

That's probably only a temporary solution and not necessarily practical.  The 
silent startup is slowly migrating across Mac models.  The iMac no longer has 
the startup chime as well as the MacBook Pro.  If a hardware upgrade is in the 
works for the MBA at all, it's entirely possible that it also could lose the 
chime.  In addition, the MacBook Air isn't necessarily powerful enough for 
certain users and use cases, so choosing to purchase an Air just to have a 
startup chime may present other problems that are more difficult or impossible 
to work around.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 2, 2018, at 02:43, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Simple solution here people. If you want the startup chime back, get an Air. 
It's still there.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 11:41 PM, Simon Fogarty  <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
> 
> The start up chime is not an accessibility feature,
> 
> It is a company feature.
> 
> It has slightly changed over the years,
> And has been used in movies 
> I believe that apple didn't  take it in to account at how we used it as a 
> notification feature that he machine was coming on.
> I'm guessing that if we contacted them enough about it they would start 
> looking at it again once we all started explaining what it was good for.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of M. Taylor
> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 3:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick 
> that Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup 
> process..  
> 
> I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
> seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
> moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line. 
>  
> 
> It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to 
> provide some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but 
> to remove the startup chime from the computers as well?
> 
> Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are 
> they doing?  
> 
> You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
> receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that 
> brings me.  
> 
> I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime 
> issue, as an accessibility feature, to https://www.apple.com/feedback 
> <https://www.apple.com/feedback>
> 
> Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?  
> 
> I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
> reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll 
> be delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, 
> they do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove 
> Touch ID from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really 
> do love this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be 
> sold for those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.
> 
> Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be 
> ready for Apple primetime.  
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
> with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup 
> process.  Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to 
> hold down special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is 
> accessed right away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific 
> items are accessed after the OS begins loading from the drive.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
&g

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

ow it sucks.  And as for the new flick up 
>>>> for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be 
>>>> it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small 
>>>> though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my 
>>>> next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>> 
>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that 
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>> Found this link.
>>>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>>>> /A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Listers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book 
>>>>>> Pro
>>>>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>>>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>>>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us 
>>>>>> all,
>>>>>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to 
>>>>>> explain
>>>>>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight 
>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>>>>>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on 
>>>>>> mains
>>>>>> power when I don't need to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

I agree with your caution, Donna.  I’ve been tentatively trying out Android for 
a couple of years now but never have I thought yet I’d move entirely to Android 
because I find the gestures in TalkBack much less responsive, and tasks take 
longer to accomplish too.  Most of all, I don’t feel as sure-footed using 
Android as I do iPhone.  It may well be due to the fact that I’ve not tried 
hard enough yet.  But I think it’s good for me to learn another OS slowly, 
trying it on cheaper Android running smart phones, and one can get a decent 
Android phone for about £200 or less, especially in the US.  VoiceOver is in my 
opinion far superior at the moment.  there are for example still issues about 
activating TalkBack for the first time when setting up a new phone, which we do 
not have with VoiceOver.  I guess since Android is much less controlled in 
terms of software and hardware, there are bound to be differences.  For 
multilingual users, for instance, iphone automatic language switching and the 
features that rotor offers are unparalleled.  On Android one has at the moment 
to utilise a piece of software Auto TTS to accomplish this.  I just feel that 
at present Voiceover is much more nimble and its responses quite steady and 
predictable.  But Google is slowly catching up and Android may well become a 
very serious rival as far as visually impaired users go.

Andrew
> On Sep 2, 2018, at 2:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
> serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching 
> OSes.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> 
>> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s 
>> moved on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love 
>> with it slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
>> 
>> Andrew
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>>> then.
>>> 
>>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Donna,
>>>> 
>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>> form of ID verification.  
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>>> 
>>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>>> 
>>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase 
>>>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big 
>>>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>> recognition to the exclusion of mor

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, you are right: the gestures on Android phones are harder to implement.  
For this reason iPhone is still my primary phone and VoiceOver is superior to 
TalkBack.  But Google is catching up I feel so it’s good to have one foot in 
their camp too.

Andrew
> On Sep 2, 2018, at 1:13 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
> To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
> I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
> computers.
> BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
> One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
> screenReader and its commands.
> Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
> But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
> Talkback are into Android.
> If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
> /A
> 
>> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>> 
>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>> 
>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>> 
>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
>> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>> 
>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>> 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Leo Bado]

Hi Donna,

I would say this shortly, I really wish You the best experience with 
android,


but android platform and ios platform are two diferent galaxys.

Believe me, I agree with You in some aspects about what You said before 
about apple but switch to android because of this will bring You what I 
believe will be waste of money and time.


Sorry if anyone is offended, this is my particular point of view when I 
compare these two platforms.


In order to master an android device You will need to take a deep 
breath, be really patient, have a lot of free time and finally being 
really really curious to find tweaks and tricks that are not in any 
written manual.


Just my thoughts.



Leo Bado

El 01/09/2018 a las 19:21, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries escribió:

Hi Andrew,

I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching OSes.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Donna,

I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s moved 
on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love with it 
slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.

Andrew

On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back in 
2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since then.

I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it will 
be preserved is the iPhone SE.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Donna,

I couldn't agree with you more.

I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
verification.

Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
know how that turned out (smile).

Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.

Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?

By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and use 
Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother thing, a 
little too far for my tastes (smile).

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna


On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.

On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.

Oh well, other people can keep trying.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries

Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries

Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts
that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>


On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
mail

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

Simple solution here people. If you want the startup chime back, get an Air. 
It's still there.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 11:41 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> The start up chime is not an accessibility feature,
> 
> It is a company feature.
> 
> It has slightly changed over the years,
> And has been used in movies 
> I believe that apple didn't  take it in to account at how we used it as a 
> notification feature that he machine was coming on.
> I'm guessing that if we contacted them enough about it they would start 
> looking at it again once we all started explaining what it was good for.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of M. Taylor
> Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 3:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick 
> that Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup 
> process..  
> 
> I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
> seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
> moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line. 
>  
> 
> It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to 
> provide some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but 
> to remove the startup chime from the computers as well?
> 
> Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are 
> they doing?  
> 
> You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
> receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that 
> brings me.  
> 
> I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime 
> issue, as an accessibility feature, to https://www.apple.com/feedback
> 
> Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?  
> 
> I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
> reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll 
> be delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, 
> they do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove 
> Touch ID from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really 
> do love this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be 
> sold for those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.
> 
> Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be 
> ready for Apple primetime.  
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
> with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup 
> process.  Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to 
> hold down special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is 
> accessed right away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific 
> items are accessed after the OS begins loading from the drive.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
> your point, but just asking.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
> That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
> enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
> why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
> I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
> just need to make things clear.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Simon,
> 
> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could 
> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[gerrycook]

I’ve tried to put in feedback about the start up chime however i suggested that 
it should be in system preferences so you could toggle it on and off for those 
who have MacBook pro with touch bar, hopefully they might listen so people 
don’t turn off apple products. that feature is good if sometimes you may have 
to set the p ram instead of having to count 20 seconds or so. Thanks 
cheers gerry have a nice day
Email: gerryc...@optusnet.com.au
Skype: gerry.cook1 
Twitter: @gerrycook52

> On 2 Sep 2018, at 4:12 am, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> This has been the eternal knock against Apple, whether it comes from
> accessibility or somewhere else in the user community.
> 
> The prevailing ethos at 1 Infinite Loop is: "We know what you need
> better than you do." That was Steve Jobbs for you, and the ethos still
> persists.
> 
> I'm not saying here anything I hhaven't publically said elsewhere many
> times. For better and for worse, Apple keeps a very tight rein on its
> products from hardware design, to firmware, to OS design, and on to apps
> and the U-I.
> 
> If you want flexibility, Apple isn't for you. It never really has been.
> They just managed to build a really compelling blind friendly phone when
> no one else was doing so. And for that little service the blind
> community committed its undyeing loyality. Well, that was then and this
> is now. It's reasonable to ask: "What have you done for me lately?"
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

The start up chime is not an accessibility feature,

It is a company feature.

 It has slightly changed over the years,
And has been used in movies 
I believe that apple didn't  take it in to account at how we used it as a 
notification feature that he machine was coming on.
I'm guessing that if we contacted them enough about it they would start looking 
at it again once we all started explaining what it was good for.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 3:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick that 
Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup 
process..  

I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.  

It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to provide 
some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but to remove 
the startup chime from the computers as well?

Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are they 
doing?  

You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that brings 
me.  

I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime issue, 
as an accessibility feature, to https://www.apple.com/feedback

Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?  

I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll be 
delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, they 
do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove Touch ID 
from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really do love 
this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be sold for 
those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.

Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be ready 
for Apple primetime.  

Just my opinion, of course.

Mark


From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net.


On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Tim,

Like donna I’d rather have the option to turn it on / off, and that doesn’t 
need to be a firmware feature surely?

I know in previous devices it could be muted and unmuted.

From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 1:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net<mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.


On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna


On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown 
mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.


On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
wrote:
Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.

Oh well, other people can keep trying.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: 
bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com><mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>


On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se><mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>>
 wrote:

Hi!
Found this link.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
Try that and see if it helps.
/A

29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com%3cmailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>>:

Hi Listers

Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
long before I started using Mac products.

I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I 

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

I thought about that myself,
And I know for a fact that can be done on the older model mac computers,

You can turn the alert tones off and if you wan to hear them turn them back on,

I've had to do that a number of times at work.
-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2018 1:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> Yes I agree,
> 
> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
> us what we want.
> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
> like to know why they stopped it.
> 
> 
> Simon Fogarty
> Dunedin, NZ
> 
> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
> 
>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-
>>>> new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Listers
>>>> 
>>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac 
>>>> Book Pro

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[M. Taylor]

Well, speaking only for myself, as silly as it may sound, I am heart-sick that 
Apple has removed the startup chime from its computer firmware startup 
process..  

I don't understand how a company that is supposed to take accessibility 
seriously, can remove one of the most basic accessibility features; and, 
moreover, one that has been available from the virtual beginning of the line.  

It's bad enough that, despite countless requests, Apple has refused to provide 
some kind of vibratory feedback for iphone startup and shutdown but to remove 
the startup chime from the computers as well?

Where are all of these Apple in-house accessibility specialists?  What are they 
doing?  

You know, each and every time I power on and shut down my Android phones, I 
receive vibratory feedback.  It is really amazing how much comfort that brings 
me.  

I think we should all submit some kind of feedback on this startup chime issue, 
as an accessibility feature, to 
https://www.apple.com/feedback

Okay, as for the upcoming iOS devices?  

I think that many companies will be adopting under-the-screen fingerprint 
reading technology.  If Apple adds this feature to this year's phones, I'll be 
delighted and will probably buy one.  However, if, as I strongly suspect, they 
do not include the new finger print technology and completely remove Touch ID 
from the new devices, then I'll stay pat with my 8 Plus as I really do love 
this phone.  I strongly suspect that the 8 series will continue to be sold for 
those who are not ready/willing to abandon Touch ID.

Perhaps, next year, then, the new finger print reading technology will be ready 
for Apple primetime.  

Just my opinion, of course.

Mark


From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2018 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna


On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net.


On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[lenron brown]

That is a pretty good idea. I am pretty sure you could find a good
deal right about now.

On 9/1/18, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> Fair point, ET.  Like I said, with the new phones coming out, I may just see
> if I can pick up a used one.  That way I keep all my options open.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 10:46 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Donna,
>>   I got the 8 plus after  5 years with the 5. Its truly s major step up. I
>> would not concern myself with what might happen down the road. Get the 8
>> and take it one day at a time. There is simply too much going on in the
>> world, we should not spend time worrying about the future.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>
>> On 9/1/2018 5:04 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi Shawn,
>>> You know, getting an iPhone 8 is one of the options I've been
>>> considering.  My fear is that it will just become too slow to use within
>>> a year or so.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:32 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries
>>>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the
>>>> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently
>>>> purchased an iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone,
>>>> I'm going to keep this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm
>>>> also reluctant to switch to Face ID but not because of what's been said
>>>> on here. I have no problems swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to
>>>> unlock the phone. What's really deterring me is the method to use Apple
>>>> Pay. I use Apple Pay almost everywhere except for Walmart of course who
>>>> still uses old and obsolete methods for payment. It's nice to just point
>>>> my phone at the debit machine and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor
>>>> to make my purchase. With face ID it sounds like you have to point the
>>>> phone at the machine, point it at your face, then point it back at the
>>>> machine and double press the side button It would be nice if Apple could
>>>> eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they stop supporting the
>>>> iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is now. If not, I
>>>> guess I'll just have to persevere.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how
>>>> they discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden >>>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the
>>>>> new devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all
>>>>> buttons, switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these
>>>>> rumours are accurate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new
>>>>> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded
>>>>> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be
>>>>> experimenting with last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture
>>>>> matching Face ID.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor >>>>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Donna,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>&

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[lenron brown]

; Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>>
>> So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I
>> take your point, but just asking.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user
>>> specific.  That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be
>>> modified by the enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security
>>> thing and is partially why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.
>>> Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending them as I would much prefer
>>> that the chime remain active, just need to make things clear.
>>>
>>> Later...
>>>
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Simon,
>>>
>>> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could
>>> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the
>>> decision for themselves.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>>
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Donna,
>>>> Yes I agree,
>>>>
>>>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then
>>>> tell us what we want.
>>>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years.
>>>> I’d like to know why they stopped it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simon Fogarty
>>>> Dunedin, NZ
>>>>
>>>> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated
>>>>> with Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would
>>>>> include an option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes
>>>>> significantly longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.
>>>>> I'm feeling resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a
>>>>> technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.
>>>>> I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three
>>>>> cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy that
>>>>> makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want
>>>>> some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple
>>>>> wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more
>>>>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should
>>>>> have kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID
>>>>> and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks,
>>>>> too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it actual or
>>>>> virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it may
>>>>> be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone
>>>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I
>>>>> feel it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled,
>>>>> or at least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple
>>>>> be deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that
>>>>> they are not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the
>>>>> rest.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>>> Kind of says 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

>  That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
>> enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is 
>> partially why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me 
>> wrong though, I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime 
>> remain active, just need to make things clear.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Simon,
>> 
>> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could 
>> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the 
>> decision for themselves.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> Yes I agree,
>>> 
>>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
>>> us what we want.
>>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
>>> like to know why they stopped it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Simon Fogarty
>>> Dunedin, NZ
>>> 
>>> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
>>> 
>>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up 
>>>> for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be 
>>>> it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small 
>>>> though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my 
>>>> next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>> 
>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that 
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>>> Twitte

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Not if you want the chime in the same time frame.  I've seen people come up 
with startup scripts that make noise, but it's later on in the startup process. 
 Thus, you would not be able to use it as an indicator of when to hold down 
special keys.  Just for clarification purposes, the firmware is accessed right 
away after power up or restart, whereas any user specific items are accessed 
after the OS begins loading from the drive.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
> That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
> enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
> why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
> I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
> just need to make things clear.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hey Simon,
> 
> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could 
> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the 
> decision for themselves.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty > <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> Yes I agree,
>> 
>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
>> us what we want.
>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
>> like to know why they stopped it.
>> 
>> 
>> Simon Fogarty
>> Dunedin, NZ
>> 
>> Em: si...@fogarty.net <mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.
>> 
>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown >>> <mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty >>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anym

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

-is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my 
>>>> next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>>> 
>>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that 
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>> Found this link.
>>>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>>>> /A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Listers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book 
>>>>>> Pro
>>>>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>>>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>>>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us 
>>>>>> all,
>>>>>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to 
>>>>>> explain
>>>>>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight 
>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>>>>>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on 
>>>>>> mains
>>>>>> power when I don't need to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>>>> owners or
>>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Janina,

The difference between Steve Jobs and now is that Jobs was a genius who was 
truly innovative.  That doesn't mean that what he did was for everyone, but it 
was a lot cooler than the stuff Apple's coming out with lately.  I get that 
some of that is due to the fact that we seem to have hit sort of a technology 
plateau, but I still think the point is valid.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:12 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> This has been the eternal knock against Apple, whether it comes from
> accessibility or somewhere else in the user community.
> 
> The prevailing ethos at 1 Infinite Loop is: "We know what you need
> better than you do." That was Steve Jobbs for you, and the ethos still
> persists.
> 
> I'm not saying here anything I hhaven't publically said elsewhere many
> times. For better and for worse, Apple keeps a very tight rein on its
> products from hardware design, to firmware, to OS design, and on to apps
> and the U-I.
> 
> If you want flexibility, Apple isn't for you. It never really has been.
> They just managed to build a really compelling blind friendly phone when
> no one else was doing so. And for that little service the blind
> community committed its undyeing loyality. Well, that was then and this
> is now. It's reasonable to ask: "What have you done for me lately?"
> 
> Janina
> 
> 
> 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

The issue I have with Android has to do with the differing hardware that the 
many manufacturers release.  This makes it so that the OS is not always exactly 
the same for each device.  Some features will work on one device, but may not 
work on another.  I've mostly experienced this with Android tablets at work, so 
can't really confidently say that this will be the same in the various Android 
phones, but I suspect it will.  Always staying with Samsung, or whatever other 
Android device you choose will minimize this as you can get used to how that 
manufacturer delivers the Android OS on their device.  If someone has more 
definitive answers, I welcome their insight.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:15, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Anders,

That was my experience back in 2010.  I would have hoped that things would have 
improved.  Part of what I'm wrestling with is whether to try a new OS, or just 
live with Apple.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
> To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
> I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
> computers.
> BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
> One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
> screenReader and its commands.
> Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
> But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
> Talkback are into Android.
> If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
> /A
> 
>> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>> 
>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>> 
>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>> 
>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
>> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me tha

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Fair point, ET.  Like I said, with the new phones coming out, I may just see if 
I can pick up a used one.  That way I keep all my options open.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 10:46 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
>   I got the 8 plus after  5 years with the 5. Its truly s major step up. I 
> would not concern myself with what might happen down the road. Get the 8 and 
> take it one day at a time. There is simply too much going on in the world, we 
> should not spend time worrying about the future.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 9/1/2018 5:04 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi Shawn,
>> You know, getting an iPhone 8 is one of the options I've been considering.  
>> My fear is that it will just become too slow to use within a year or so.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:32 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
>>> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased 
>>> an iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to 
>>> keep this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to 
>>> switch to Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no 
>>> problems swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. 
>>> What's really deterring me is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay 
>>> almost everywhere except for Walmart of course who still uses old and 
>>> obsolete methods for payment. It's nice to just point my phone at the debit 
>>> machine and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With 
>>> face ID it sounds like you have to point the phone at the machine, point it 
>>> at your face, then point it back at the machine and double press the side 
>>> button It would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe 
>>> when they stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker 
>>> than it is now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
>>> discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden >>> <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
>>>> devices.
>>>> 
>>>> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
>>>> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
>>>> accurate.
>>>> 
>>>> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new 
>>>> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded 
>>>> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting 
>>>> with last year.
>>>> 
>>>> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture 
>>>> matching Face ID.
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> 
>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor >>>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donna,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted 
>>>>> form of ID verification.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally, I have a

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Andrew,

I'll be curious about your experiences.  I think I'll start taking a more 
serious look at Android phones, but I'll be slow about actually switching OSes.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:16 PM, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s moved 
> on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love with it 
> slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.
> 
> Andrew
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back 
>> in 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since 
>> then.
>> 
>> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
>> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> 
>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>> 
>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form 
>>> of ID verification.  
>>> 
>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>> 
>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>> 
>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>> 
>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Ch

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

So can they build it in as something other than a firmware setting?  I take 
your point, but just asking.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
> That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
> enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
> why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
> I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
> just need to make things clear.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hey Simon,
> 
> I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could 
> preserve it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the 
> decision for themselves.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty > <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> Yes I agree,
>> 
>> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
>> us what we want.
>> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
>> like to know why they stopped it.
>> 
>> 
>> Simon Fogarty
>> Dunedin, NZ
>> 
>> Em: si...@fogarty.net <mailto:si...@fogarty.net>.
>> 
>>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown >>> <mailto:lenro...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty >>>> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from exper

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hey Lenron,

One thing I'm thinking about--among many--is picking up a used 8 and then just 
waiting things out for a couple of years.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:42 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> You say with in a year getting slow nah it should be fine. I know
> people using the 6s with no issues. I am using the 7plus and it's
> running just fine. You don't need the latest and greatest these days.
> Took me a long time to realize that when it came to phones, I use to
> upgrade every year. I will upgrade next year for sure but that will be
> to get the 5g technology.
> 
> On 9/1/18, Maria Reyes  wrote:
>> You have to keep in mind that Face ID is a first gen product like Touch ID
>> was when it was first released. I love my iPhone X and Face ID works for
>> me.
>> 
>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 4:33 AM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the
>> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an
>> iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to
>> keep this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to
>> switch to Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no
>> problems swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's
>> really deterring me is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost
>> everywhere except for Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete
>> methods for payment. It's nice to just point my phone at the debit machine
>> and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID
>> it sounds like you have to point the phone at the machine, point it at your
>> face, then point it back at the machine and double press the side button It
>> would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they
>> stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is
>> now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Shawn,
>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>> 
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they
>> discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden
>> mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new
>> devices.
>> 
>> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons,
>> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are
>> accurate.
>> 
>> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new
>> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded
>> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting
>> with last year.
>> 
>> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture
>> matching Face ID.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>> 
>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just
>> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID
>> verification.
>> 
>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we
>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>> 
>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.
>> 
>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?
>> 
>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and
>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother
>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

With it being a firmware item, it's not something that can be user specific.  
That is, settings within the firmware are not able to be modified by the 
enduser, just by Apple themselves.  This is a security thing and is partially 
why the Mac is a more secure system than Windows.  Don't get me wrong though, 
I'm not defending them as I would much prefer that the chime remain active, 
just need to make things clear.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 19:10, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> Yes I agree,
> 
> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
> us what we want.
> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
> like to know why they stopped it.
> 
> 
> Simon Fogarty
> Dunedin, NZ
> 
> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
> 
>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Listers
>>>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Anders,

That was my experience back in 2010.  I would have hoped that things would have 
improved.  Part of what I'm wrestling with is whether to try a new OS, or just 
live with Apple.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
> To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
> I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
> computers.
> BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
> One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
> screenReader and its commands.
> Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
> But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
> Talkback are into Android.
> If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
> /A
> 
>> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>> 
>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>> 
>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>> 
>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
>> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>> 
>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>>> Sky

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hey Simon,

I get that sighted users may not want it, but it seems like they could preserve 
it as an option so that anyone, sighted or not, could make the decision for 
themselves.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> Yes I agree,
> 
> They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell 
> us what we want.
> The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
> like to know why they stopped it.
> 
> 
> Simon Fogarty
> Dunedin, NZ
> 
> Em: si...@fogarty.net.
> 
>> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Listers
>>>> 
>>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book 
>>>> Pro
>>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>>> 
>>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
>>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>>> me,
>>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I am kind of half android and half Apple user.
To be honest i don’t know what way to go.
I have both the old Iphone Se, an Ipad mini 3 and an Ipad mini 4 plus 2 mac 
computers.
BUt i also have an android phone which is a Nokia 8.
One thing i don’t like about android is that for me it is harder to use the 
screenReader and its commands.
Maybe its because i am more used to use the apple products.
But to me it seems that VoiceOver is better implemented into the Ios than 
Talkback are into Android.
If i said this on the eyes-free list they’ll cut my Head *lol*.
/A

> 1 sep. 2018 kl. 04:16 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
> 
> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
> 
> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
> 
> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,
Yes I agree,

 They should all to the users about what they are looking for rate then tell us 
what we want.
The start up come is something that apple have had for years and years. I’d 
like to know why they stopped it.


Simon Fogarty
Dunedin, NZ

Em: si...@fogarty.net.

> On 1/09/2018, at 1:47 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>> 
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>> 
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Listers
>>> 
>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>> 
>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>> me,
>>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
>>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
>>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
>>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
>>> power when I don't need to.
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

For me, I shut down the computer instead of restarting it.  Thus if it is 
powered down, I press the power button to turn it on, wait a second or two then 
hold down the necessary keys.  Not ideal, but it does the job.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 1, 2018, at 15:17, Cara Quinn  wrote:

Apologies if this has been asked already; how are we supposed to know when to 
hold keystrokes such as command r which need to be held at the startup chime?

Cheers!

Cara

On Aug 31, 2018, at 6:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.

On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Hi shaun,
> 
> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
> 
> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
> 
> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Found this link.
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
> Try that and see if it helps.
> /A
> 
> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
> 
> Hi Listers
> 
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
> long before I started using Mac products.
> 
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
> me,
> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
> to know when / if our machines are starting up
> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
> power when I don't need to.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> You received this message because you are subscribed t

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Cara Quinn]

Apologies if this has been asked already; how are we supposed to know when to 
hold keystrokes such as command r which need to be held at the startup chime?

Cheers!

Cara

On Aug 31, 2018, at 6:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.

On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Hi shaun,
> 
> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
> 
> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
> 
> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Found this link.
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
> Try that and see if it helps.
> /A
> 
> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
> 
> Hi Listers
> 
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
> long before I started using Mac products.
> 
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
> me,
> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
> to know when / if our machines are starting up
> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
> power when I don't need to.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to
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> To post to this group, send email to
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
>

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[lenron brown]

You say with in a year getting slow nah it should be fine. I know
people using the 6s with no issues. I am using the 7plus and it's
running just fine. You don't need the latest and greatest these days.
Took me a long time to realize that when it came to phones, I use to
upgrade every year. I will upgrade next year for sure but that will be
to get the 5g technology.

On 9/1/18, Maria Reyes  wrote:
> You have to keep in mind that Face ID is a first gen product like Touch ID
> was when it was first released. I love my iPhone X and Face ID works for
> me.
>
> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 4:33 AM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>
> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the
> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an
> iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to
> keep this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to
> switch to Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no
> problems swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's
> really deterring me is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost
> everywhere except for Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete
> methods for payment. It's nice to just point my phone at the debit machine
> and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID
> it sounds like you have to point the phone at the machine, point it at your
> face, then point it back at the machine and double press the side button It
> would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they
> stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is
> now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.
>
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they
> discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden
> mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new
> devices.
>
> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons,
> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are
> accurate.
>
> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new
> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded
> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting
> with last year.
>
> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture
> matching Face ID.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> Donna,
>
> I couldn't agree with you more.
>
> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just
> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID
> verification.
>
> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we
> all know how that turned out (smile).
>
> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.
>
> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?
>
> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and
> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother
> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).
>
> Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm st

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Donna,

I too have just started experimenting with Android.  It seems that it’s moved 
on quite a bit with TalkBack, and I feel I’m going to fall in love with it 
slowly given the number of phones one can choose from.

Andrew
> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:45 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back in 
> 2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since then.
> 
> I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it 
> will be preserved is the iPhone SE.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>> 
>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
>> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
>> verification.  
>> 
>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>> 
>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>> 
>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>> 
>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>&g

RE: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Maria Reyes]

You have to keep in mind that Face ID is a first gen product like Touch ID was 
when it was first released. I love my iPhone X and Face ID works for me.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 4:33 AM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an 
iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to keep 
this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to switch to 
Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no problems swiping 
up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really deterring me 
is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost everywhere except for 
Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete methods for payment. It's 
nice to just point my phone at the debit machine and hold my finger on the 
Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID it sounds like you have to 
point the phone at the machine, point it at your face, then point it back at 
the machine and double press the side button It would be nice if Apple could 
eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they stop supporting the iPhone 8 
hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is now. If not, I guess I'll just 
have to persevere.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
discontinued it for one computer and not on another.


On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden 
mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,

According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
devices.

It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
accurate.

I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new flagship 
phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded fingerprint sensor 
which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting with last year.

All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture matching 
Face ID.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> 
wrote:

Donna,

I couldn't agree with you more.

I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
verification.

Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
know how that turned out (smile).

Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.

Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?

By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and use 
Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother thing, a 
little too far for my tastes (smile).

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the c

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

This has been the eternal knock against Apple, whether it comes from
accessibility or somewhere else in the user community.

The prevailing ethos at 1 Infinite Loop is: "We know what you need
better than you do." That was Steve Jobbs for you, and the ethos still
persists.

I'm not saying here anything I hhaven't publically said elsewhere many
times. For better and for worse, Apple keeps a very tight rein on its
products from hardware design, to firmware, to OS design, and on to apps
and the U-I.

If you want flexibility, Apple isn't for you. It never really has been.
They just managed to build a really compelling blind friendly phone when
no one else was doing so. And for that little service the blind
community committed its undyeing loyality. Well, that was then and this
is now. It's reasonable to ask: "What have you done for me lately?"

Janina


'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
> > On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> > 
> > Stupid that they removed it.
> > 
> > On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> >> Hi shaun,
> >> 
> >> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
> >> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
> >> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
> >> 
> >> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
> >> 
> >> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
> >> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
> >> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> >> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> >> 
> >> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
> >> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Shawn,
> >> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> >> 
> >> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> >> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> >> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> >> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
> >> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi!
> >> Found this link.
> >> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
> >> Try that and see if it helps.
> >> /A
> >> 
> >> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
> >> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
> >> 
> >> Hi Listers
> >> 
> >> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book 
> >> Pro
> >> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
> >> long before I started using Mac products.
> >> 
> >> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
> >> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
> >> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
> >> me,
> >> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

There's seems to be a very high premium favoring silent boot in the
sighted world.

We had this fight several times over on Linux. Fortunately, we were able
to add configuration options both to the grub bootloader and to the GDM
graphical desktop display manager to allow for making sound. But, there
was significant and persistent opposition to making something sonic the
default. They even objected to a simple beep. I kid you not.

So, I can understand why Apple would want to disable the chime. What I
can't understand is why it's unavailable to be turned on for those of us
that rely on it, especially as how the boot menu times out. On Linux we
are at least able to add sound back in in our configurations.

Janina

lenron brown writes:
> Stupid that they removed it.
> 
> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> > Hi shaun,
> >
> > Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
> > Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
> > Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
> >
> > Oh well, other people can keep trying.
> >
> > From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
> > Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
> > To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> > Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> >
> > There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
> > doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shawn,
> > Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> >
> > Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> > Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> > Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> > Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> >
> >
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
> > mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> > Found this link.
> > https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
> > Try that and see if it helps.
> > /A
> >
> > 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
> > mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
> >
> > Hi Listers
> >
> > Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
> >  doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
> > long before I started using Mac products.
> >
> > I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
> > restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
> > the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
> > me,
> > If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> > But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
> > that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
> > to know when / if our machines are starting up
> > Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
> > power when I don't need to.
> >
> > Any thoughts appreciated.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> > Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >
> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> > mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> > reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> > "MacVisionaries" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> > To post to this group, send email to
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> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> > Visionaries list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
&g

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

Donna,
   I got the 8 plus after  5 years with the 5. Its truly s major step 
up. I would not concern myself with what might happen down the road. Get 
the 8 and take it one day at a time. There is simply too much going on 
in the world, we should not spend time worrying about the future.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/1/2018 5:04 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi Shawn,

You know, getting an iPhone 8 is one of the options I've been 
considering.  My fear is that it will just become too slow to use within 
a year or so.

Cheers,
Donna

On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:32 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:


Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently 
purchased an iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the 
iPhone, I'm going to keep this 8 until they decide to stop supporting 
it. I'm also reluctant to switch to Face ID but not because of what's 
been said on here. I have no problems swiping up to go home or to use 
Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really deterring me is the method 
to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost everywhere except for Walmart 
of course who still uses old and obsolete methods for payment. It's 
nice to just point my phone at the debit machine and hold my finger on 
the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID it sounds like 
you have to point the phone at the machine, point it at your face, 
then point it back at the machine and double press the side button It 
would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when 
they stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker 
than it is now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.


Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how 
they discontinued it for one computer and not on another.


On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Hi all,

According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all 
the new devices.


It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all 
buttons, switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these 
rumours are accurate.


I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new 
flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded 
fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be 
experimenting with last year.


All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture 
matching Face ID.


Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:


Donna,

I couldn't agree with you more.

I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID. 
 I just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a 
trusted form of ID verification.


Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack 
and we all know how that turned out (smile).


Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.

Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?

By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to 
purchase and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes 
this big brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).


Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated 
with Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would 
include an option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes 
significantly longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky. 
 I'm feeling resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a 
technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face 
ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't need 
three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a 
cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use 
technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition 
to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for 
those of us who tried face ID and know it 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[David Chittenden]

It converts between a laptop and a tablet PC.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Sep 2018, at 22:00, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Just curious, what is a Windows convertible?
> 
> Face ID seemed good in theory, but in practice, it drives me crazy.  With 
> Touch ID, when picking up my phone or getting it out of my purse, I could 
> have it unlocked by the time I had it in front of me.  With touch ID I can't 
> even start the unlock process till it's in front of my face, and then, at 
> least several times daily it takes multiple tries to get it unlocked.  I 
> suppose if one had the fingerprint sensor as an alternative, that would be 
> OK, but it doesn't sound like that's even going to happen.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:16 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
>> 
>> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
>> 
>> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
>> 
>> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
>> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
>> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I 
>>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face 
>>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their 
>>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those 
>>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up for 
>>> home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be it 
>>> actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small though it 
>>> may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my next phone 
>>> will be a non-Apple product.
>>> 
>>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be 
>>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are 
>>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Shawn,
>>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>>> 
>>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>>&g

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi David,

That's interesting,

I don't mind face id, but it has it's moments,

 As for the windows convertible, 
I still prefer the mac book due to needing both mac os and widnows, running 
windows in boot camp allows a quick flick between them both.

I'm hoping the earpods 2 are released soon and I'm definitely waiting to see 
what's in the watch 4.

 I'm also hoping the  wireless charging pad is released soon to as that was 
rumoured out 6 months ago but still not out yet.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2018 2:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.

I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.

I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.

I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps on 
the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>> 
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>> 
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-n
>>> ew-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Listers
>>> 
>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac 
>>> Book Pro doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers 
>>> have done since long before I started u

RE: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Having spent the past 9 months using face id
I don’t mind it but it does have it’s moments.

I’d like to see both options available on the devices or on the higher end 
devices and then one or the other on the entry level.

That’s what Samsung seem to have done with their s8 and s9 models.

They have both finger print and face scanning.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2018 8:33 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an 
iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to keep 
this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to switch to 
Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no problems swiping 
up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really deterring me 
is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost everywhere except for 
Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete methods for payment. It's 
nice to just point my phone at the debit machine and hold my finger on the 
Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID it sounds like you have to 
point the phone at the machine, point it at your face, then point it back at 
the machine and double press the side button It would be nice if Apple could 
eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they stop supporting the iPhone 8 
hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is now. If not, I guess I'll just 
have to persevere.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
discontinued it for one computer and not on another.


On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden 
mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,

According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
devices.

It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
accurate.

I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new flagship 
phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded fingerprint sensor 
which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting with last year.

All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture matching 
Face ID.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com<mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> 
wrote:

Donna,

I couldn't agree with you more.

I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
verification.

Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
know how that turned out (smile).

Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.

Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?

By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and use 
Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother thing, a 
little too far for my tastes (smile).

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

But leo,
How do you know?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Leo Bado
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2018 9:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

I don't need a big screen either,

and surely I don't need three cameras...


Leo Bado

El 31/08/2018 a las 19:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries escribió:
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
>
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>
>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>>
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-n
>>> ew-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>> /A
>>>
>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>>
>>> Hi Listers
>>>
>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac 
>>> Book Pro doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers 
>>> have done since long before I started using Mac products.
>>>
>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to 
>>> force restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to 
>>> turn off / on the machine I never know when it's restarting until it 
>>> starts talking to me, If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be 
>>> talking.I know this effects us all, But have we ever or has anyone 
>>> ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain that this chime at 
>>> start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired to know 
>>> when / if our machines are starting up Or do in my case I just keep 
>>> thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains power when I don't 
>>> need to.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>>>
>

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Shawn,

You know, getting an iPhone 8 is one of the options I've been considering.  My 
fear is that it will just become too slow to use within a year or so.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 3:32 AM, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an 
> iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to keep 
> this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to switch 
> to Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no problems 
> swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really 
> deterring me is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost 
> everywhere except for Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete 
> methods for payment. It's nice to just point my phone at the debit machine 
> and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID 
> it sounds like you have to point the phone at the machine, point it at your 
> face, then point it back at the machine and double press the side button It 
> would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they 
> stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is 
> now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com <mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
> discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden > <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
>> devices.
>> 
>> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
>> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
>> accurate.
>> 
>> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new 
>> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded 
>> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting 
>> with last year.
>> 
>> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture 
>> matching Face ID.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> 
>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>> 
>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form 
>>> of ID verification.  
>>> 
>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>> 
>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>> 
>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>> 
>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech com

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks for this, David.  I agree with your assessment about the rumors probably 
being right.  That fits with what Apple seems to have been doing for a while 
now.  But, sounds like there might be a possibility of getting the fingerprint 
sensor too, which would help.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
> devices.
> 
> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
> accurate.
> 
> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new flagship 
> phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded fingerprint sensor 
> which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting with last year.
> 
> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture matching 
> Face ID.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>> 
>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
>> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
>> verification.  
>> 
>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>> 
>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>> 
>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>> 
>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi David,

Just curious, what is a Windows convertible?

Face ID seemed good in theory, but in practice, it drives me crazy.  With Touch 
ID, when picking up my phone or getting it out of my purse, I could have it 
unlocked by the time I had it in front of me.  With touch ID I can't even start 
the unlock process till it's in front of my face, and then, at least several 
times daily it takes multiple tries to get it unlocked.  I suppose if one had 
the fingerprint sensor as an alternative, that would be OK, but it doesn't 
sound like that's even going to happen.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:16 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.
> 
> I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.
> 
> I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.
> 
> I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
> watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps 
> on the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
>> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
>> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>> 
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>> 
>>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shawn,
>>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>>> 
>>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Found this link.
>>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>>> /A
>>>> 
>>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yeah, I may start experimenting with Android.  I had an Android phone back in 
2010 and hated it, but the experience has probably changed a bit since then.

I hope you're right about touch ID, but my guess is that the only place it will 
be preserved is the iPhone SE.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 12:24 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more.
> 
> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
> verification.  
> 
> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
> know how that turned out (smile).
> 
> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
> 
> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
> 
> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>> 
>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>> 
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>> 
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-ne
>>> w-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Listers
>>> 
>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac 
>>> Book Pro doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers 
>>

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Leo Bado]

I don't need a big screen either,

and surely I don't need three cameras...


Leo Bado

El 31/08/2018 a las 19:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries escribió:

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna


On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:

Stupid that they removed it.

On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.

Oh well, other people can keep trying.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>


On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Found this link.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
Try that and see if it helps.
/A

29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:

Hi Listers

Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
long before I started using Mac products.

I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
me,
If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
to know when / if our machines are starting up
Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
power when I don't need to.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Regards

Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.

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The following information is i

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[lenron brown]

I must say I completely agree. I feel like they are trying to force us
to use face id. Touch id was adopted a few years ago and it just
works. It doesn't matter where my phone is when I need to unlock it
and I like that. I will gladly keep my mac book around until it
breaks, and this IPhone probably has another year or two, but I am
thinking it might be time for a change.

On 9/1/18, David Chittenden  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new
> devices.
>
> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons,
> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are
> accurate.
>
> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new
> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded
> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting
> with last year.
>
> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture
> matching Face ID.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>
>> Donna,
>>
>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>
>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I
>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted
>> form of ID verification.
>>
>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we
>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>
>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.
>>
>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?
>>
>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase
>> and use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big
>> brother thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly
>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling
>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have
>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous
>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder
>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the
>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I
>> will use technology.  If Apple wants to continue to promote face
>> recognition to the exclusion of more convenient technologies, that's their
>> prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch option available for those
>> of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as for the new flick up
>> for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a home button--be
>> it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only power--small
>> though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really wondering if my
>> next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>>
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at
>> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be
>> deciding this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are
>> not big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
>> Donna
>>
>>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Stupid that they removed it.
>>>
>>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>> Hi shaun,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>>>
>>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>>>
>>>> There is

Re: Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[David Chittenden]

For Face ID on the iPhone X, double press the power button. Activate Face ID, 
then put the iPhone near the reader.

That said, I usually use my Apple Watch because it is more convenient.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Sep 2018, at 18:32, 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
> darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an 
> iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to keep 
> this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to switch 
> to Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no problems 
> swiping up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really 
> deterring me is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost 
> everywhere except for Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete 
> methods for payment. It's nice to just point my phone at the debit machine 
> and hold my finger on the Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID 
> it sounds like you have to point the phone at the machine, point it at your 
> face, then point it back at the machine and double press the side button It 
> would be nice if Apple could eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they 
> stop supporting the iPhone 8 hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is 
> now. If not, I guess I'll just have to persevere.
> 
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
> 
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
> discontinued it for one computer and not on another.
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
>> devices.
>> 
>> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
>> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
>> accurate.
>> 
>> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new 
>> flagship phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded 
>> fingerprint sensor which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting 
>> with last year.
>> 
>> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture 
>> matching Face ID.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> 
>>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>>> 
>>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I 
>>> just can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form 
>>> of ID verification.  
>>> 
>>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>>> 
>>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>>> 
>>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>>> 
>>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly 
>>> longer to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling 
>>> resentful that Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have 
>>> tried, and do not like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous 
>>> screen.  I sure as h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder 
>>> if my next phone will be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the 
>>> rest from my Mac.  I don't want some giant t

Apple Annoyances Was Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

Well I for one am not about to give up my Apple products and go to the 
darkside. I bought my new Mac this past March and just recently purchased an 
iPhone 8 and they're both working great. As for the iPhone, I'm going to keep 
this 8 until they decide to stop supporting it. I'm also reluctant to switch to 
Face ID but not because of what's been said on here. I have no problems swiping 
up to go home or to use Face ID to unlock the phone. What's really deterring me 
is the method to use Apple Pay. I use Apple Pay almost everywhere except for 
Walmart of course who still uses old and obsolete methods for payment. It's 
nice to just point my phone at the debit machine and hold my finger on the 
Touch ID sensor to make my purchase. With face ID it sounds like you have to 
point the phone at the machine, point it at your face, then point it back at 
the machine and double press the side button It would be nice if Apple could 
eliminate some of these steps. Maybe when they stop supporting the iPhone 8 
hopefully Apple Pay will be quicker than it is now. If not, I guess I'll just 
have to persevere.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
P.S. On the 2017 MacBook Air, there's still a startup chime. Weird how they 
discontinued it for one computer and not on another.

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 1:15 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
> devices.
> 
> It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
> switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
> accurate.
> 
> I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new flagship 
> phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded fingerprint sensor 
> which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting with last year.
> 
> All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture matching 
> Face ID.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> I couldn't agree with you more.
>> 
>> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
>> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
>> verification.  
>> 
>> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we 
>> all know how that turned out (smile).
>> 
>> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
>> 
>> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
>> 
>> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
>> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
>> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
>> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
>> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
>> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
>> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
>> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
>> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
>> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
>> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
>> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
>> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have 
>> kept a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it 
>> sucks.  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to 
>> quickly press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more 
>> efficient.  My only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  
>> And I am really wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
>> 
>> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
>> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[David Chittenden]

Hi all,

According to the rumours, Apple will be removing touch ID from all the new 
devices.

It is important to note: Apple has been on a quest to remove all buttons, 
switches, and so forth for several years, so I expect these rumours are 
accurate.

I do not remember the spelling of the Chinese company, but their new flagship 
phone has Apple's 3D Face ID, and the touchscreen embedded fingerprint sensor 
which Apple was reportedly rumoured to be experimenting with last year.

All the other Android Face ID systems are currently using 2D picture matching 
Face ID.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Sep 2018, at 15:24, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more.
> 
> I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
> can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
> verification.  
> 
> Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
> know how that turned out (smile).
> 
> Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  
> 
> Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  
> 
> By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and 
> use Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother 
> thing, a little too far for my tastes (smile).  
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
> 
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>> 
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>> 
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-ne
>>> w-macb

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[M. Taylor]

Donna,

I couldn't agree with you more.

I’m hoping that Apple will, in fact, maintain some form of Touch ID.  I just 
can't imagine that they would completely eliminate such a trusted form of ID 
verification.  

Of course, I said the same thing about removing the headphone jack and we all 
know how that turned out (smile).

Personally, I have absolutely no desire to use Face ID.  

Let's just wait and see what happens on September 12th, okay?  

By the way, it is for this and other reasons why I continue to purchase and use 
Android devices; you know, just in case Apple takes this big brother thing, a 
little too far for my tastes (smile).  

Mark

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna

> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> Stupid that they removed it.
> 
> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> Hi shaun,
>> 
>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>> 
>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>> 
>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts 
>> that it doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Shawn,
>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>> 
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Found this link.
>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-ne
>> w-macbook-pros.2011044/
>> Try that and see if it helps.
>> /A
>> 
>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>> 
>> Hi Listers
>> 
>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac 
>> Book Pro doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers 
>> have done since long before I started using Mac products.
>> 
>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to 
>> force restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to 
>> turn off / on the machine I never know when it's restarting until it 
>> starts talking to me, If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be 
>> talking.I know this effects us all, But have we ever or has anyone 
>> ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain that this chime at 
>> start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired to know when 
>> / if our machines are starting up Or do in my case I just keep 
>> thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains power when I don't 
>> need to.
>> 
>> Any t

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[David Chittenden]

I am waiting to see what Apple shows in two weeks.

I have already switched to a touchscreen windows convertible.

I actually do like face ID. But, I also want the fingerprint sensor.

I love the Apple Watch and the AirPods. That said, I am much more closely 
watching Android devices. I have found a few Braille Screen input type apps on 
the Google Play store which I will soon be testing on my old Nexus 9.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Sep 2018, at 11:46, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
> Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an 
> option for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer 
> to unlock your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that 
> Apple is trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not 
> like.  I don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as 
> h*** don't need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will 
> be a cheapy that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I 
> don't want some giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If 
> Apple wants to continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more 
> convenient technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept 
> a touch option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks. 
>  And as for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly 
> press a home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My 
> only power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
> wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.
> 
> I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel 
> it's all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at 
> least make it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding 
> this for us?  They seem to want to make an argument that they are not 
> big-brotherish, but actually, they're no better than the rest.
> Donna
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Stupid that they removed it.
>> 
>>> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Hi shaun,
>>> 
>>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>>> 
>>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>>> 
>>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>>> 
>>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Shawn,
>>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>>> 
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Found this link.
>>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>>> Try that and see if it helps.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Listers
>>> 
>>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
>>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>>> long before I started using Mac products.
>>> 
>>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
>>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>>> me,
>>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
>>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
>>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
>>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
>>> power 

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling frustrated with 
Apple.  I was really hoping that the new iPhone models would include an option 
for a faster iPhone 8.  Face ID sucks.  It takes significantly longer to unlock 
your phone, and is much more finicky.  I'm feeling resentful that Apple is 
trying to force me into a technology that I have tried, and do not like.  I 
don't want Face ID.  I don't need a ginormous screen.  I sure as h*** don't 
need three cameras.  I'm starting to wonder if my next phone will be a cheapy 
that makes calls and texts, and I do the rest from my Mac.  I don't want some 
giant tech company to dictate how I will use technology.  If Apple wants to 
continue to promote face recognition to the exclusion of more convenient 
technologies, that's their prerogative.  But they should have kept a touch 
option available for those of us who tried face ID and know it sucks.  And as 
for the new flick up for home?  It sucks, too.  Being able to quickly press a 
home button--be it actual or virtual--was much more efficient.  My only 
power--small though it may be--is my purchasing power.  And I am really 
wondering if my next phone will be a non-Apple product.

I know this is only tangentially related to the start-up chime, but I feel it's 
all part of the same thing.  Why not leave the chime enabled, or at least make 
it an option for those who want it?  Why should Apple be deciding this for us?  
They seem to want to make an argument that they are not big-brotherish, but 
actually, they're no better than the rest.
Donna

> On Aug 31, 2018, at 7:51 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> Stupid that they removed it.
> 
> On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> Hi shaun,
>> 
>> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
>> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
>> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>> 
>> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>> 
>> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
>> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>> 
>> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
>> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Shawn,
>> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>> 
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
>> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Found this link.
>> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>> Try that and see if it helps.
>> /A
>> 
>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
>> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>> 
>> Hi Listers
>> 
>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
>> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
>> long before I started using Mac products.
>> 
>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
>> me,
>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
>> to know when / if our machines are starting up
>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
>> power when I don't need to.
>> 
>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> Yo

Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[lenron brown]

Stupid that they removed it.

On 8/31/18, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Hi shaun,
>
> Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
> Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
> Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.
>
> Oh well, other people can keep trying.
>
> From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
> Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes
>
> There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it
> doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.
>
> Regards,
> Shawn,
> Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air
>
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg
> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> Found this link.
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
> Try that and see if it helps.
> /A
>
> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty
> mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:
>
> Hi Listers
>
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro
>  doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since
> long before I started using Mac products.
>
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force
> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on
> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to
> me,
> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain
> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired
> to know when / if our machines are starting up
> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains
> power when I don't need to.
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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>
>
> --
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> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
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>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
> mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
&

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi shaun,

Yeah the line in the web page details that say:
Feature removed by apple on latest firmware, doesn't work anymore.”
Kind of says to me that this doesn’t work anymore.

Oh well, other people can keep trying.

From: 'Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Friday, 31 August 2018 6:03 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it 
doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com<mailto:bbssh...@icloud.com>


On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:

Hi!
Found this link.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
Try that and see if it helps.
/A

29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>>:

Hi Listers

Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro  
doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since long 
before I started using Mac products.

I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force restart 
for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on the machine 
I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to me,
If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain 
that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired to 
know when / if our machines are starting up
Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains 
power when I don't need to.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Regards

Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

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reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>

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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
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You received this me

RE: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah from what I've researched it's a firmware issue.

They removed it in the firmware therefore the only way to get it back is to 
change the firmware back to allow the sounds to be played.


Shame it's a pain to not have it 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2018 11:04 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

Hi!
>From what i have understand its disabled so there is no startup chime on the 
>later macbook pros.
I can check to see if you can get it back.
/A

> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Hi Listers
> 
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro  
> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since 
> long before I started using Mac products.
> 
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to 
> force restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to 
> turn off / on the machine I never know when it's restarting until it 
> starts talking to me, If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know 
> this effects us all, But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple 
> accessibility to explain that this chime at start up would be really useful 
> to us the sight impaired to know when / if our machines are starting up Or do 
> in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains power 
> when I don't need to.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

['Shawn Krasniuk' via MacVisionaries]

There is no proof that this command works. I've heard from experts that it 
doesn't but go ahead and try it yourself.

Regards,
Shawn,
Sent from Sophia, the MacBook Air

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Found this link.
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
>  
> 
> Try that and see if it helps.
> /A
>> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty > >:
>> 
>> Hi Listers 
>> 
>> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro 
>>  doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since 
>> long before I started using Mac products.
>> 
>> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force 
>> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on 
>> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to me,
>> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
>> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain 
>> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired 
>> to know when / if our machines are starting up 
>> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains 
>> power when I don't need to.
>> 
>> Any thoughts appreciated.
>> 
>> Regards 
>> 
>> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
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Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Found this link.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tutorial-disable-auto-boot-on-new-macbook-pros.2011044/
 

Try that and see if it helps.
/A
> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Hi Listers 
> 
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro  
> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since 
> long before I started using Mac products.
> 
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force 
> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on 
> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to me,
> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain 
> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired 
> to know when / if our machines are starting up 
> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains 
> power when I don't need to.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> 
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Re: Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
>From what i have understand its disabled so there is no startup chime on the 
>later macbook pros.
I can check to see if you can get it back.
/A

> 29 aug. 2018 kl. 11:32 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Hi Listers 
> 
> Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro  
> doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since 
> long before I started using Mac products.
> 
> I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force 
> restart for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on 
> the machine I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to me,
> If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
> But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain 
> that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired 
> to know when / if our machines are starting up 
> Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains 
> power when I don't need to.
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated.
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.
> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Mac OS Start up Chimes

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Listers 

Ok so I'm kind of getting  hacked off with the fact my new work Mac Book Pro  
doesn't do the start up chimes that Apple / mac computers have done since long 
before I started using Mac products.

I've got VO starting at log in but when for some reason I need to force restart 
for some unknown reason, if I use the power button to turn off / on the machine 
I never know when it's restarting until it starts talking to me,
If I'm lucky enough for vo to still be talking.I know this effects us all,
But have we ever or has anyone ever contacted Apple accessibility to explain 
that this chime at start up would be really useful to us the sight impaired to 
know when / if our machines are starting up 
Or do in my case I just keep thinking the batteries dead and put it on mains 
power when I don't need to.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Regards 

Slightly P'd off mac book pro user.

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