Re: ncurses-bin package (was: Fun crashes on OS2008)

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 07 January 2008 01:08:11 Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> > On Wednesday 02 January 2008 03:13:41 you wrote:
> >> ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> >>> On Saturday 29 December 2007 03:29:05 pm Marius Gedminas wrote:
> >>>> Two shell crashes on OS2008.  One is reproducible but mostly
> >>>> harmless:
> >>>>
> >>>>   $ type
> >>>>
> >>>> /bin/sh segfaults and your session ends.
> >>>>
> >>>> The other is not reproducible: while hitting the  key to
> >>>> go back in history I suddenly got this:
> >>>>
> >>>>   ~ $ pidof *** glibc detected *** -sh: double free or
> >>>> corruption (!prev): 0x0004ed40 ***
> >>>>
> >>>> /bin/sh aborts and your session ends.  Scary.
> >>>>
> >>>> Marius Gedminas
> >>>
> >>> Marius.   I can't get the first one to crash mine.  it instead
> >>> lists out the busybox info.  As for the second ... I get random
> >>> crashes form the current xterm (less advanced) version that I
> >>> can't repeat. More often than not with more than one window
> >>> open. But the  one you can get to work regularly doesn't seem
> >>> to happen.
> >>>
> >>> Also just curious but does anyone know why the clear command
> >>> wasn't compiled into busybox?  Was up until 2008.  Perhaps an
> >>> oversite?
> >>
> >> Why you need it?
> >
> > it is used in scripts to clear the term window when switching for
> > example in and out of VI.
> >
> >> "clear" command comes from ncurses-bin package on Debian along
> >> with e.g. terminfo database manipulation programs. ncurses-bin
> >> is a Debian essential and "clear" is also in posix standard so
> >> it would probably be  good if it would be in the device by
> >> default.
> >
> > Up until now clear was a compiled "applet" in busybox Not
> > supplied by ncurses-bin Unfortunately ... ncurses-bin  is
> > installed ... and it doesn't have the command (in the maemo
> > version) as in the past it would have conflicted with the busy
> > box version of clear.
> >
> >> Busybox package doesn't provide ncurses-bin and from the
> >> binaries included into that package Busybox binary could be
> >> configured to provided only clear and reset.   I'm not sure how
> >> nice it would be to have that limited ncurses-bin package in the
> >> device... The terminfo database tools shouldn't be necessary
> >> there. :-)
> >
> > Your right one package isn't expected to supply the another.  But
> > here again.  check OS2007 OS2006 and OS2005 busybox in all of
> > them supplied clear on maemo.
>
> If only clear and reset from the ncurses-bin package would be
> needed, busybox could include both and declared that it provides
> ncurses-bin.

Actually prior to os2008 that is what it did.


>
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Re: OS2008 Damn ugly!!!

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 02 January 2008 02:55:39 Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-12-27 at 21:59 -0300, ext Alfredo J. Fabretti wrote:
> > Designers need constructive criticism, comments like the original
> > post only hurts their feelings.
>
> It's not that much about feelings really - we develop a pretty
> thick skin sooner than later :-) Anyhow, constructive criticism is
> of course useful.
>
> It's a lot more about practical thinking: resources are limited
> (even in a large corporation - time being one of the more scarce
> resources usually) and it makes sense to focus on certain scenarios
> and try to cover them well, rather than trying to do everything at
> once. Then you test it and see if it works, and if not, you repeat
> until it does, given the timeframe you have. It's not like we wear
> a beret and moustache and sip red wine* to come up with "The
> Design" and reveal it to the programmers from under a red velvet
> cloth in a ceremony.. But you probably knew that already ;)
>
> This results in a product that cannot please everyone, but
> hopefully does work for the target group. The challenge of course
> is to aim at the correct target in the first place, but this is
> getting way offtopic already ;^)
>
> Have a good 2008 everyone, and thanks for all the good feedback on
> the new OS release! :)
>
> //Tuomas

Toumas,

   The only thing you can do is make it "damn configurable"  The only 
WM I've ever seen that it out of the box drop dead beautiful is 
IMHO 'e' but hey...that's me.   Each of us goes our own way.  

James
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Re: Missing OS2008 cmdline apps (was Re: how to install OS2007?)

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 02 January 2008 06:07:47 Marius Gedminas wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 11:42:01PM -0800, James Sparenberg wrote:
> > Hendrik,
> >
> >   Actually ping requires root on all systems.   Since in order to
> > do icmp you need to put the nic into a different mode than it
> > runs in normally.  The way it is normally done on every other
> > linux distro is to do (as root)
> >
> > chmod u+s /usr/bin/ping   (or /bin/ping on busybox enabled
> > systems)
> >
> > This will, yes, set ping as setuid root.  If you look at any
> > other Linux you see that they all run ping setuid root.
>
> If you do that with /bin/ping on busybox-enabled systems, it will
> set *all* busybox utils (including /bin/sh) setuid root.
>
> Gun. Foot. Safety off.
>
> Good luck,
> Marius Gedminas

Marius,

   Yes it would seem so, and I expected it to happen,  but if you do 
chmod u+s /bin/ping ... a normal user can run ping.  But then if you 
turn around and do  (after the chmod) 

cat /etc/sudoers 

As an unprivileged user ... it will give you a permission denied. 
(normal reaction) Then I walk over to my debian system and run 

chmod u+s /bin/cat 

Now on my debian system cat allows me to cat /etc/sudoers  Normally an 
unprivileged user cannot cat /etc/sudoers.   Running through the 
entire list of apps in /bin linked to busybox shows the same result.  
Only ping is setuid root.  Conversly if I do 

chmod u-s /bin/ping (removing setuid)
chmod u+s /bin/cat (setting setuid)

cat can cat /etc/sudoers and a normal user cannot ping.  

James 
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Re: Fun crashes on OS2008

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 02 January 2008 03:13:41 you wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> > On Saturday 29 December 2007 03:29:05 pm Marius Gedminas wrote:
> >> Two shell crashes on OS2008.  One is reproducible but mostly
> >> harmless:
> >>
> >>   $ type
> >>
> >> /bin/sh segfaults and your session ends.
> >>
> >> The other is not reproducible: while hitting the  key to go
> >> back in history I suddenly got this:
> >>
> >>   ~ $ pidof *** glibc detected *** -sh: double free or
> >> corruption (!prev): 0x0004ed40 ***
> >>
> >> /bin/sh aborts and your session ends.  Scary.
> >>
> >> Marius Gedminas
> >
> > Marius.   I can't get the first one to crash mine.  it instead
> > lists out the busybox info.  As for the second ... I get random
> > crashes form the current xterm (less advanced) version that I
> > can't repeat. More often than not with more than one window open.
> >  But the  one you can get to work regularly doesn't seem to
> > happen.
> >
> > Also just curious but does anyone know why the clear command
> > wasn't compiled into busybox?  Was up until 2008.  Perhaps an
> > oversite?
>
> Why you need it?
>

it is used in scripts to clear the term window when switching for 
example in and out of VI.


> "clear" command comes from ncurses-bin package on Debian along with
> e.g. terminfo database manipulation programs. ncurses-bin is a
> Debian essential and "clear" is also in posix standard so it would
> probably be  good if it would be in the device by default.

Up until now clear was a compiled "applet" in busybox Not supplied by 
ncurses-bin Unfortunately ... ncurses-bin  is installed ... and it 
doesn't have the command (in the maemo version) as in the past it 
would have conflicted with the busy box version of clear.
>
> Busybox package doesn't provide ncurses-bin and from the binaries
> included into that package Busybox binary could be configured
> to provided only clear and reset.   I'm not sure how nice it would
> be to have that limited ncurses-bin package in the device...
> The terminfo database tools shouldn't be necessary there. :-)

Your right one package isn't expected to supply the another.  But here 
again.  check OS2007 OS2006 and OS2005 busybox in all of them 
supplied clear on maemo.
>
>
>   - Eero


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Re: Missing OS2008 cmdline apps (was Re: how to install OS2007?)

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 30 December 2007 08:10:39 am Peter Flynn wrote:
> Tuomas Kulve wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> That's bizarre.  What security implications are there in ping
> >> that would mean it has to be run only by root?  Forcing people
> >> to use root when not necessary is itself a security problem.
> >
> > Ping seems to be setuid root on my debian. So it's run as root
> > here too.
>
> That's because 'debianite' is an anagram of 'anal-retentive'
> (well, it's not, but it ought to be :-)
>
> A Debian contributor once told me that all utilities which access
> the network should be root-privileged because otherwise they would
> allow ordinary users to know of (or detect) the existence of other
> machines, which might be a security breach.
>
> ///Peter

Peter don't believe everything they tell you.  They tend to blow their 
fair share of sunshine *grin*  But seriously.  Even Debian has to run 
it setuid root.  As in order to ping you have to modify the nic's run 
mode.  

James
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Re: Missing OS2008 cmdline apps (was Re: how to install OS2007?)

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 30 December 2007 06:50:05 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2007 at 07:23:15PM -0500, James Knott wrote:
> > Peter Flynn wrote:
> > > Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > >> On Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 04:43:51PM +0100, Zoran Kolic wrote:
> >  If you're a new user, I'd forget O7 and go directly to
> >  08.  There's enough 08 stuff for a new user that you'll
> >  spend a week or more exploring all that's available, and by
> >  then, even more stuff will be available.
> > >>>
> > >>> A lot of useful command line tools have gone to the mist.
> > >>> Hope the same will not get perl, python, ruby...
> > >>
> > >> So, what command-line tools do you miss?  I've got an idle
> > >> scratchbox here.
> > >
> > > ping and traceroute would be useful.
> >
> > Ping is there, but you have to be root to use it.
>
> That's bizarre.  What security implications are there in ping that
> would mean it has to be run only by root?  Forcing people to use
> root when not necessary is itself a security problem.
>
> -- hendrik

Hendrik,  

  Actually ping requires root on all systems.   Since in order to do 
icmp you need to put the nic into a different mode than it runs in  
normally.  The way it is normally done on every other linux distro is 
to do (as root)

chmod u+s /usr/bin/ping   (or /bin/ping on busybox enabled systems)

This will, yes, set ping as setuid root.  If you look at any other 
Linux you see that they all run ping setuid root.

James
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Re: Fun crashes on OS2008

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 29 December 2007 03:29:05 pm Marius Gedminas wrote:
> Two shell crashes on OS2008.  One is reproducible but mostly
> harmless:
>
>   $ type
>
> /bin/sh segfaults and your session ends.
>
> The other is not reproducible: while hitting the  key to go
> back in history I suddenly got this:
>
>   ~ $ pidof *** glibc detected *** -sh: double free or corruption
> (!prev): 0x0004ed40 ***
>
> /bin/sh aborts and your session ends.  Scary.
>
> Marius Gedminas

Marius.   I can't get the first one to crash mine.  it instead lists 
out the busybox info.  As for the second ... I get random crashes 
form the current xterm (less advanced) version that I can't repeat.  
More often than not with more than one window open.  But the  one you 
can get to work regularly doesn't seem to happen. 

Also just curious but does anyone know why the clear command wasn't 
compiled into busybox?  Was up until 2008.  Perhaps an oversite?

James

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Re: GIMP on n800?

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 28 December 2007 04:36:16 am Danilo Cesar DP wrote:
> It can be "ssh -x", can't it?
>
> []'s
>
> Danilo

http://net9.blogspot.com/2007/04/gimp-running-on-n800.html

 a video from long ago that might interest you.

james

>
> On Dec 28, 2007 9:10 AM, Thomas Armagost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > http://kalle.vahlman.googlepages.com/gimp-on-n800.png
> >
> > Is this screenshot a fake?
> >
> > Tallyho,
> > Thomas Armagost
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://sillyblog.net
> >
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users


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Re: ATARASHI - n800 optimized ezine is out!

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 19 December 2007 03:20:54 pm Fred Chittenden wrote:
>   Spam Status: Spamassassin 0% probability of being spam.
>
> Full report:
> No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham 
> version=3.1.7-deb   On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:06:51 +0100
> "Carlos Pinto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yes, and given the fun with the sites of late... I dare you to 
download it *grin*

James

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Re: DO NOT RESTORE FROM A BETA BACKUP

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 20 December 2007 11:51:58 am Mike Morrison wrote:
> I had no such issues restoring from the beta backup.
>
> On Dec 20, 2007 7:06 AM, Jonathan Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > http://www.maemoapps.com/2007/12/19/n800-updated-to-os2008-wheres
> >-the-stylus-input/
> >
> > I know I'm not alone with issues following a restore.  Tread
> > lightly. A fresh install fixes you right back up.
> >
> > --
> 

I'm with Mike on this.  Due to problems totally unrelated to the Beta 
I restored from backup a total of 5 or 6 times during the beta phase.  
Thank god too.   Kept me down to 30 minutes a re-install.

James
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Re: starting up - ruggedizing

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 19 December 2007 09:13:43 am Fred Chittenden wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:55:00 -0500
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I've just ordered my first N800, and it should arrive in a few
> > days. I've read this list enough to know that it will do the
> > things I want it to do (and more) once I write a few minor
> > applications for it... Is it possible to ruggedize the N800? 
> > I've already destroyed several Nokia cell phones and a Palm pilot
> > by letting them drop out of my pocket onto the floor when I bend
> > over.  (My Palm is still limping along with gratuitous blobs of
> > orange pixels and uneven backlighting after several falls.  Kudos
> > to the manufacturer!)
>
> My ruggedizing solution finding  a smallish zippered $6 day planner
> like deal at Target by Franklin-Coveys #365.  Fits in a large
> pocket. Finds a easy home in my brief case/day pack.
>
> * It holds the n800 real snuggly, with cushioning in every
> dimension, comes with a small pen, a pad of paper which I divided
> in half to make a little more room, and a few slots for
> business/credit cards and some $.
>
> * It cushions drops quite well.
> * Google up some screen protectors.  The case protects the screen
> well if you put the screen on the paper pad side of the case, but
> you'll want to protect the screen from stylus scratches.
> * You can open the zipper on one end to charge the device in the
> case. * The case is snug enough of a fit to not
> allow the n800 to slip out an unzipped end.
> * There's just enough spare room for the ear piece.
> * For quick access, when you put the n800 in the case, lock the
> touch screen and keys.  Unlocking is much quicker than booting up
> and saves battery time over just leaving it on.
>
> Any who, that's worked for me.  I'm sure there's other solutions to
> ruggedizing use.

I've been using a Nintendo DS Lite case.  (got it on sale too!) has 
lots of extra "pockets".  

Also I noted the first line... "I just ordered my FIRST n800.  Sounds 
like someone has plans ;)

James
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Re: What is "2nd" piece in N800 FIASCO image?

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 18 December 2007 12:22:45 pm digger vermont wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Because I have a powerpc with linux I need to use 0x to flash
> images.
>
> 0x doesn't yet have the ability to flash the entire image but
> it can unpack the image and then install the individual pieces. 
> The pieces are: 2nd, initfs, kernel, rootfs, secondary, and
> xloader.
>
> I can successfully flash all the pieces except "2nd"  The N800
> seems to operate fine without it. However, hat does that piece do
> and what am I missing?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> digger

Though it is binary a bit of poking at it leads me to believe it is 
some kind of control file for fiasco images (the .bin file you have 
to open up) that tells the flash installers how to handle all the 
parts and in what order.

James
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Re: Disappearing Widgets.

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 18 December 2007 12:37:11 am Tapani Pälli wrote:
> ext Martin Grimme wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have seen the same on my N800 with OS 2008 beta. It happens
> > when dialog windows popup. The dialogs still work fine but are
> > plain white without anything in it. The device might be low on
> > memory in this situation. Maybe Cairo simply refuses to render
> > widgets if it's low on memory?
>
> Do these dialog's still have borders or is it just a white
> rectangle on screen?

Best example is the lock screen when starting up.  black background 
with numbers on a white square.

James

>
> > Cheers,
> > Martin
> >
> > 2007/12/18, Tuomas Kuosmanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 18:26 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> >>> Nope right now just running the stock 0S2008 BAF themes (Big
> >>> A** Font) the 2007 ones wouldn't even install if I tried as
> >>> dependencies don't match.
> >>>
> >>> You just go along for hours ... and have to restart to switch
> >>> batteries for example or any other reason and suddenly sans
> >>> widgets. Visual only the function remains.
> >>
> >> Yeah, like Eero said, this sounds really strange. I have not
> >> seen this ever lately (and I have seen quite a few interesting
> >> effects while we were hacking on the theme config stuff when
> >> developing it)
> >>
> >> If the theme configuration file contains some errors, this will
> >> cause nasty breakage, but it would most likely require that you
> >> installed something that touched the theme files.
> >>
> >> You mean it just comes up with blank widgets after a reboot, or
> >> does it happen while it runs? I guess the only way to figure
> >> this out is to try to narrow down the cases when it happens..?
> >>
> >> The only idea I have right now is that you reflash the device,
> >> and note down *everything* you install and see if it happens
> >> again.
> >>
> >> //Tuomas
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> maemo-users mailing list
> >> maemo-users@maemo.org
> >> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
> // Tapani Pälli


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Re: help!? my N810 seems dead(ish)

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 18 December 2007 12:08:38 am Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 09:54 +0200, Igor Stoppa wrote:
> > That's weird - N800 and 770 have practically the same chargin
> > interface - HW, SW and battery - and when doing idle chargin
> > their current is comparable.
> >
> > Unless the N800 sw recognises the fake charger and simply refuses
> > to use it :-)
> >
> > Does it show any message, like "Not Charging", when you plug in
> > the fake charger?
>
> Yeah, it said "not charging".
>
> It *could be* that I remember wrong. And of course I have thrown
> that one away already since I lost the converter cable from large
> to small plug, and the charger was cheaper than a new one :) -
> would have been useful to check the specs on the label.
>
> //T
>
>
That may be it, as some large plug Nokia chargers had a lower 
voltage/MA rating than the small plug ones do.  (We've owned more 
than one Nokia phone in our family...)

James
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Re: Disappearing Widgets.

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 18 December 2007 12:00:15 am Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 18:26 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> > Nope right now just running the stock 0S2008 BAF themes (Big A**
> > Font) the 2007 ones wouldn't even install if I tried as
> > dependencies don't match.
> >
> > You just go along for hours ... and have to restart to switch
> > batteries for example or any other reason and suddenly sans
> > widgets. Visual only the function remains.
>
> Yeah, like Eero said, this sounds really strange. I have not seen
> this ever lately (and I have seen quite a few interesting effects
> while we were hacking on the theme config stuff when developing it)
>
> If the theme configuration file contains some errors, this will
> cause nasty breakage, but it would most likely require that you
> installed something that touched the theme files.
>
> You mean it just comes up with blank widgets after a reboot, or
> does it happen while it runs? I guess the only way to figure this
> out is to try to narrow down the cases when it happens..?
>
> The only idea I have right now is that you reflash the device, and
> note down *everything* you install and see if it happens again.
>
> //Tuomas
>

Agreed on all of the above.  If it hadn't happened 3 times I wouldn't 
have worried.  One thing though hasn't happened since Sunday and the 
last install I did I intentionally left OMWeather and Xournal off.  

It is blanking after a reboot and the first sign of problem is that 
the lock panel coms up as a white square with numbers. (nobuttons no 
colors) Then when it starts the left panel is gone (but icons are 
there) colors are all wonky in the menu as the highlight doesn't work 
right.  Added to that all internal borders/buttons and progress bars 
are MIA.  

James




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Re: help!? my N810 seems dead(ish)

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 17 December 2007 08:56:21 pm Joshua Layne wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:56:43 +, Peter Flynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > 
> >
> > I have the identical problem, and some poking around revealed
> > that the wire from the charger to the unit is internally broken
> > close to (or within) the rat-tail that comes out of the charger
> > plug.
> >
> > These chargers seem to be very fragile, which is disappointing
> > for something that cannot be replaced easily (not in stores), and
> > the closest (N95 charger) costs €25.  They also cannot be opened
> > for a simple rewiring repair, even after removing the two
> > retaining screws, as they appear to be sealed.
> >
> > How do I buy a replacement charger (or 3 or 4 of them if they are
> > fragile)?
>
> having gotten a full charge by leaving my N810 in the car for a few
> hours (my DC adapters stayed powered with the car off, thankfully),
> I can say with a fair assurance that I have the same problem as
> Peter.  I will be getting the power adapter replaced under warranty
> if at all possible.  If nothing else, Nokia is more likely to
> acknowledge it as an actual issue if they have had warranty issues
> on it.  However, a brief search on google shows some fly-by-night
> places that have it for really cheap (like a few dollars), so I may
> just pick up a replacement and a spare for the office./;
>
> My power cord had not moved from where it had been originally
> plugged in when I bought the unit, so it shouldn't have failed.
>
> Apologies for my panicked initial post - I was worried I would be
> without my baby ;P


IF the n810 uses the same power supply/charger as the n800 then one 
way to get 'official' Nokia chargers is buy going to t-maobile or 
other phone dealer and buying a charger designed to fit a Nokia 6103 
phone.  

I have that phone and the chargers for my 770 n800 and phone are all 
the same.  

James
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Re: OS2008: .bashrc or .bash_profile?

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 17 December 2007 03:33:02 pm Marius Gedminas wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2007 at 03:44:33PM +0200, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > > ash for me is fine.  I just miss vim right now
> >
> > There will be vim for OS2008 eventually.  If you've got a
> > Scratchbox with chinook, you can build it from the source package
> > I convinced mud-builder to produce for me.  It's at
> > http://mg.pov.lt/770/dists/bora/user/source/
>
> I built vim for OS2008, but since I haven't upgraded my N800, I
> haven't actually tested the package yet.  You can find it at
> http://mg.pov.lt/770/dists/chinook/experimental/binary-armel/
>
> I'd appreciate feedback (does it work or not?).
>
> Marius Gedminas
>
> P.S. Many thanks to inz for the scratchbox setup HOWTO at
> http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/

Marius, I'll be installing it in a bit and will give you as much 
useful feedback as I can.  Probably some useless feedback as well ;)

James

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Re: Disappearing Widgets.

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 17 December 2007 03:27:41 am Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 12:43 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> > OK,
> >
> >First, Yes I understand 2008 is a beta.  So please don't
> > anyone get defensive.  But I think I have a case somehow of
> > application vs 2008 and I'm trying to track it down. Can't file a
> > bug until I can say "do this and that happens" or at least say
> > what is happening.
> >
> >   I'm about to do a 3rd re-install this weekend.   Each one is
> > promted by the same thing.  After a restart (last on promted by a
> > need to change battery for a charged one while out)  I loose all
> > visible widgets. No buttons (I've the text) no progress or scroll
> > bars, nothing.  Now the functionality is still there.  If I guess
> > the location of a scroll button it will scroll, Buttons though
> > only defined by the text that was on them still push.
> >
> >   I seem to recall someone having this kind of event in the past
> > and a cure existing.  Though for the life of me I can't remember
> > what it was.
> >
> >   Any suggestions would be appreciated as this is #3 event in 3
> > days. Though the "remember what was installed" feature of 2008 is
> > working well.
>
> What theme are you using? Did you install something theme-related?
>
> This sounds like you have a broken theme that messes things up..
> Like, if you have os2007 themes, those *do not work* on OS2008
> since there are changes, and things might likely get broken.
>
> Or something else is corrupting the files..?
>
> //Tuomas

Nope right now just running the stock 0S2008 BAF themes (Big A** Font) 
the 2007 ones wouldn't even install if I tried as dependencies don't 
match.  

You just go along for hours ... and have to restart to switch 
batteries for example or any other reason and suddenly sans widgets.  
Visual only the function remains.

James
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Re: OS2008: .bashrc or .bash_profile?

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 17 December 2007 03:23:55 am Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 15:44 +0200, ext Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > > curious.  Does the IT do colors?
> >
> > You mean the terminal emulator?  Yes, it does.  It does many
> > things, including, e.g., vim's mouse support.
>
> Yep, it's using the "vte" terminal widget  that is the same as
> gnome-terminal
>
> Irssi + screen via ssh to my home server work nicely and are my
> main use case of the terminal :-)
>
> //T

Hmmm I'll have to look into vte.  I'm only familiar with the dircolors 
command and I haven't found that yet for the IT.

James
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Review of the automated update feature of 0S2008

[James Sparenberg]

All,

   Since I've been using it so much figured I'd give it a review.  

On 2008-beta it doesn't quite go automagic.. this IMHO is good.  You 
do a normal Flash install.  Then as expected it notices your backup 
(the backup HAS to be done under 2008 for all of this to work.)  
completes a restore, reboots and asks if you want to now restore 
software. 

At this point it opens the Applications Manager for you.  Then 
nothing.   This is a bit un-expected as it had already asked if you 
wanted to begin.  So I connect to my WiFi and then traverse the menu 
to Tools > Application Restore 

Boom, it takes off immediately it updates the apt-get lists, 
calculates a list of all the "missing" applications. (not versions 
btw) and presents you with a list of what it thinks it needs to 
install (this list is dumbed up in that it only includes apps not 
their dependencies. )  

Installation from there procedes as normal.  There are interuptions 
for configuration related questions (just as it would happen if you 
installed the app as a singlet.) but otherwise no other human input 
is needed.

One big  plus is how it handles the non installable ( Bad file ... not 
in any of the repositories etc) it asks if you want to skip... and 
does so without a problem.  Additionally if you have to stop in the 
middle for any reason it will allow you to run it over and over each 
time calculating anew what is missing. 

Problems:

Minor but there.  

1.  If at any time for any reason it can't install a file the 
last "screen" is a popup that says "Operation Failed"  This rather 
ominous alert is inaccurate.  Actually the overall program succeeded 
but the install of a single deb failed.  

2.  The dead spot when the Application Manager is first opened.  If I 
hadn't been nosy I never would have found the link I needed to click 
to get it all going.

3.  Pidgin config files still don't make it into a backup for some 
reason.

Overview.

Overall a big 4.5 out of 5 stars and a very useful app.

James
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Disappearing Widgets.

[James Sparenberg]

OK,

   First, Yes I understand 2008 is a beta.  So please don't anyone get 
defensive.  But I think I have a case somehow of application vs 2008  
and I'm trying to track it down. Can't file a bug until I can say "do 
this and that happens" or at least say what is happening.  

  I'm about to do a 3rd re-install this weekend.   Each one is promted 
by the same thing.  After a restart (last on promted by a need to 
change battery for a charged one while out)  I loose all visible 
widgets. No buttons (I've the text) no progress or scroll bars, 
nothing.  Now the functionality is still there.  If I guess the 
location of a scroll button it will scroll, Buttons though only 
defined by the text that was on them still push.  

  I seem to recall someone having this kind of event in the past and a 
cure existing.  Though for the life of me I can't remember what it 
was.  

  Any suggestions would be appreciated as this is #3 event in 3 days.  
Though the "remember what was installed" feature of 2008 is working 
well.

James
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Re: OS2008: .bashrc or .bash_profile?

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 16 December 2007 07:55:55 am Peter Flynn wrote:
> Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> > Laurent MARTIN wrote:
> >> Any idea on how I could simulate .bashrc, specially 'alias'
> >> command? TIA.
> >
> > Busybox shell (ash) is pretty good, you need bash only for
> > bash-isms.
>
> My problem is that only ever having used bash (since I got out from
> under csh :-) is that I don't know what's a bash-ism and what's not
> :-)
>
> ///Peter
>

Peter, I know that feeling for sure.  Even more fun for me is when I 
get a fresh Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Debian install and sh is a soft link to 
Dash.  Dash is to Bash what a Hyundai Sonata is to a Mercedes.  The 
look is similar but it just isn't the same thing.  

James
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Re: OS2008: .bashrc or .bash_profile?

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 13 December 2007 01:04:48 am Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> Laurent MARTIN wrote:
> > Any idea on how I could simulate .bashrc, specially 'alias'
> > command? TIA.
>
> Busybox shell (ash) is pretty good, you need bash only for
> bash-isms. From you post it looks like you don't need bash at all.
> Maybe most people wanting bash on device don't realize busybox ash
> is good enough (and possibly faster and less memory hungry).
> Aliases work too of course, it is standard Bourne shell. There is
> also tab completion and 'normal' line editing.
>
> As for .bashrc you can have it working with ash too. Just create
> ~/.profile with something like:
>
> # ~/.profile: executed by Bourne-compatible login shells.
>
> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
>. ~/.bashrc
> fi
>
> PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/
>usr/bin/X11 export PATH
>
> mesg n
>
>
> and ~/.bashrc
>
> # ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for non-login shells.
>
> export PS1='\h:\w\$ '
> umask 022
>
> # You may uncomment the following lines if you want `ls' to be
> colorized: # export LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto'
> # eval "`dircolors`"
> # alias ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS'
> # alias ll='ls $LS_OPTIONS -l'
> alias l='ls $LS_OPTIONS -lA'
>
>
> and it works. You can also set ENV to ~/.bashrc to have it read for
> every shell (not just login shell from .profile)
> export ENV=~/.bashrc
>
> Frantisek

ash for me is fine.  I just miss vim right now *grin*  but you do 
bring up a point to remember.  Don't forget the .profile.  Just 
curious.  Does the IT do colors?

James 

PS.  


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Re: 15 dec Release n810?

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 15 December 2007 04:05:31 pm Peter Flynn wrote:
> Antonio Di Cello wrote:
> > Dear ,Alessandro , in italy we are always the last in everything
> >
> :-)
>
> Not true: we're always last in Ireland -- companies think we're
> part of the UK because we speak English, and they are often shocked
> to hear we're a separate state.
>
> ///Peter
> ___
>

My greatest shocker in that part of the world came one night in Korea 
with both Irish and UK friends on a pub crawl.  We found out later 
that everything that our drunk Scotsman said was in English... who 
woulda thunk it ;)  

But seriously.  It's equally weird in the US.  We do and we don't get 
stuff.  Generally I was surprised that the 770 was available in the 
US as "small" usually doesn't make it here.  A 15Kg laptop, no 
problem.  The latest micro laptop from Fujitsu or Sony... Only way to 
get it is to go to Japan, buy it and bring it home to pay taxes on.  
That for me was why the 770 caught my eye, and wallet.  (My Libretto 
was bought over seas and man did I love that little sucker.) 

James
 
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Re: OS2008: beta version of Modest e-mail client available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 11 December 2007 04:48:21 pm James Sparenberg wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 December 2007 03:26:50 pm Jose Antonio Vacas Martinez
>
> wrote:
> > Grande
> >
> > On Dec 11, 2007 11:24 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> > > I really love it!
> > > So fast even on gprs!
> > >
> > > The way mail reading was meant to be.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for this gem. It deserves a place in the next os
> > > release.
> > >
> > > - Original message -
> > >
> > > > Dear Maemo-Users,
> > > >
> > > > If you're using OS2008 (Chinook), you might be interested in
> > > > the Modest email program (http://modest.garage.maemo.org)
> > > >
> > > > [ Scroll down for the install file (but please read this mail
> > > > first!). ]
> > > >
> > > > We've been working on "Modest" for a while now, with great
> > > > contributions from Igalia
> > > > (http://www.igalia.com/news/modest), Philip Van Hoof
> > > > (Tinymail), Openismus and others. And while it's not finished
> > > > or bugfree yet, you might want to give it a try. We'll be
> > > > blogging on Planet Maemo with news and updates.
> > > >
> > > > Some highlights:
> > > > - the basics: POP/IMAP/SMTP (normal/secure);
> > > > - IMAP folders support, and IMAP-IDLE ("push-email")
> > > > - easy setup of new accounts
> > > > - send and receive of rich text-emails
> > > > - managing mail with your fingers
> > > > - 100% open-source with a BSD-like license
> > > >
> > > > Some important notes:
> > > > - modest will *not* replace the official e-mail program
> > > > - it does have the same name/icon in the menus, so don't
> > > > get confused!
> > > > - modest uses English, regardless of your settings
> > > > - modest works great with Gmail; don't forget to use
> > > > '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' as your username, not just 'user'.
> > > >
> > > > You can find an install file here:
> > > > http://modest.garage.maemo.org/repos/modest-chinook.install
> > > >
> > > > This is for OS2008 (Chinook), and will *not* work on OS2007.
> > > > It's bèta release, not for production use, so use at your own
> > > > risk!
> > > >
> > > > If you do, please let us know what you think of modest.
> > > > Please refer to our webpage to see the various communication
> > > > channels that are available -- thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes,
> > > > The Modest Team.
> > > > ___
>
> Looks great... tried it out with IMAP and SSL connectiing to an
> exchange server.
>
> not fun
>
> Seems that MS has the deleted pile ... the really deleted pile the
> "I know you said to delete it but I'm keeping it anyway pile" and
> the "Just in case you lied the 1st 3 times" pile.  (Ok the last one
> I haven't found yet.)
>
> Seems  that modest mail is trying now to download every mail I've
> received in the last 6 months or so, including all  of my
> previously discarded junk etc.  All 29,938 mails.   Not cool.
>
> Any idea how I can get it to stop doing this without pissing off
> the win-admin and shooting the exchange server?  ;)
>
> On the up side.  everything else works like a charm.. Beta's
> should always be this smooth.
>
> James
>

Ok Jonathan was kind enough to point out where the setting was to set 
a limit on the number of e-mails it will grab.  This is progress.  

James
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Re: OS2008: beta version of Modest e-mail client available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 11 December 2007 03:26:50 pm Jose Antonio Vacas Martinez 
wrote:
> Grande
>
> On Dec 11, 2007 11:24 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > I really love it!
> > So fast even on gprs!
> >
> > The way mail reading was meant to be.
> >
> > Thanks a lot for this gem. It deserves a place in the next os
> > release.
> >
> > - Original message -
> >
> > > Dear Maemo-Users,
> > >
> > > If you're using OS2008 (Chinook), you might be interested in
> > > the Modest email program (http://modest.garage.maemo.org)
> > >
> > > [ Scroll down for the install file (but please read this mail
> > > first!). ]
> > >
> > > We've been working on "Modest" for a while now, with great
> > > contributions from Igalia (http://www.igalia.com/news/modest),
> > > Philip Van Hoof (Tinymail), Openismus and others. And while
> > > it's not finished or bugfree yet, you might want to give
> > > it a try. We'll be blogging on Planet Maemo with news and
> > > updates.
> > >
> > > Some highlights:
> > > - the basics: POP/IMAP/SMTP (normal/secure);
> > > - IMAP folders support, and IMAP-IDLE ("push-email")
> > > - easy setup of new accounts
> > > - send and receive of rich text-emails
> > > - managing mail with your fingers
> > > - 100% open-source with a BSD-like license
> > >
> > > Some important notes:
> > > - modest will *not* replace the official e-mail program
> > > - it does have the same name/icon in the menus, so don't
> > > get confused!
> > > - modest uses English, regardless of your settings
> > > - modest works great with Gmail; don't forget to use
> > > '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' as your username, not just 'user'.
> > >
> > > You can find an install file here:
> > > http://modest.garage.maemo.org/repos/modest-chinook.install
> > >
> > > This is for OS2008 (Chinook), and will *not* work on OS2007.
> > > It's bèta release, not for production use, so use at your own
> > > risk!
> > >
> > > If you do, please let us know what you think of modest. Please
> > > refer to our webpage to see the various communication
> > > channels that are available -- thanks.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > The Modest Team.
> > > ___

Looks great... tried it out with IMAP and SSL connectiing to an 
exchange server.  

not fun

Seems that MS has the deleted pile ... the really deleted pile the "I 
know you said to delete it but I'm keeping it anyway pile" and 
the "Just in case you lied the 1st 3 times" pile.  (Ok the last one I 
haven't found yet.) 

Seems  that modest mail is trying now to download every mail I've 
received in the last 6 months or so, including all  of my previously 
discarded junk etc.  All 29,938 mails.   Not cool.  

Any idea how I can get it to stop doing this without pissing off the 
win-admin and shooting the exchange server?  ;)

On the up side.  everything else works like a charm.. Beta's 
should always be this smooth.

James



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Re: Keyboard for N800

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 11 December 2007 02:02:08 pm Peter Flynn wrote:
> Ryan Pavlik wrote:
> > Except for the "Visible" checkbox (which is _not_ necessary -
> > that's if you want the N800 to show up as a device on other
> > peoples' Bluetooth-capable devices), what you described is
> > exactly what I have, except I don't need to do that every time. 
> > I'd remove the device from the list on the N800, remove the
> > battery from the keyboard (so it forgets its pairings), then put
> > the battery back in.  Now, push and hold the little white button
> > on the keyboard until the light blinks.  You should be able to
> > "add" the device in the bluetooth control panel devices screen -
> > accept the PIN the Nokia gives you (that is, click OK on that
> > screen after making sure "trusted" is checked), type the PIN on
> > the keyboard while it is waiting and press enter on the keyboard.
> >  It should fiddle about for a few seconds, then your bluetooth
> > icon should turn blue and you should be good to go.
>
> That's pretty much what I did when I got it, to set it up first
> time.
>
> > From then on, just don't turn off Bluetooth on the N800
>
>=

Actually there isn't  a big difference between turning BT off  and 
having BT on but not connected to any device.  When connected yes 
there is a drain.  When it's on but not connected to anything it's no 
more of a drain than having WiFi available but not connected.  

James
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Re: Noob Questions

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 07 December 2007 07:45:52 am Kalle Valo wrote:
> "ext Urivan Saaib" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> question is I'm wondering if it's possible to setup DNS suffix?
> >> I don't want to type the long domain every time I try to go to a
> >> box on my company's network.
>
> Yes, this is a missing feature in N800/N810. The problem is the
> usage of dnsmasq, we can't easily add support for search domains. I
> don't remember the details anymore, but I think the only way solve
> is to change dnsmasq to something else.
>
>

Just so I can understand more clearly what you are saying, is the 
problem you are talking about the way dnsmasq is used or the fact 
that dnsmasq is used at all?

James

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Re: OS2008 on N800: probable bugs

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 07 December 2007 01:17:12 am Neil MacLeod wrote:
> Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> > - I've had three times after selecting "lock touch screen in
> > keys" where after pressing power and seeing "now press HOME" the
> > HOME button was inactive and I had to remove the battery or
> > shutdown through remote ssh. This is with unmodified
> > systemui.xml.
> >
> > I'll open bugzilla if I'm not alone in seeing this.
>
> You're not alone, check bug 2311[1] - "N800 running OS2008 forgets
> it has any hardware buttons". Rather than pop the battery and
> reboot, a workaround which works for some people is to pop out the
> camera which sometimes reactivates the disabled buttons.
>
> 1. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2311
>
>
Why am I suddenly reminded of a Rat in a Skinner box back in my 
College days.  He had 'learned' that when his lever stopped giving 
food to pee on it, so it would start giving him food again.   

(just found this humorous is all, sorry.)

James
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Re: Flashing from powerpc and linux

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 06 December 2007 07:56:02 pm Jonathan Jesse wrote:
> Where is the 2008 Beta available at?  At maemo.org I saw something
> asking for a serial number which I didn't have.  Am I looking
> someplace incorrectly?
>
> On 12/6/07, Bob Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > digger vermont wrote:
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > Just got an N800 today. :)
> > >
> > > It looks like the only way to flash it from a powerpc and linux
> > > is to use 0x.  Is that correct?
> > >
> > > It doesn't look like it can yet flash the image as a whole. 
> > > But it can unpack the it into pieces as:
> > >
> > > 2nd, kernel, rootfs, xloader, initfs, secondary
> > >
> > > Will it work for me to then install the individual pieces?  Or
> > > will I be missing something?


The "serial" number is also you mac address either look under the 
battery cover or on the label on the box you n800 came in.  In both 
cases it will look something like

WLAN xxx

James

> >
> > I've flashed from linux several times onto my 770s and now my
> > 810, and have never needed to unpack components first...
> > just download the flasher and the image, run the flasher with the
> > command line from the howto on the maemo.org site.
> > I can see the flasher breaking out the various components as it
> > installs them one by one onto the tablet.
> > Can't imagine it'd be different on PPC...
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
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Re: libraries for running os2007 apps under os2008

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 05 December 2007 08:35:25 am Fred Chittenden wrote:
> Seems like a waste of time since it's likely that many of the 2007
> apps are likely to be ported over to 8OS pretty soon.  IMHO,
> there's other stuff to look at and work on.  Although perhaps
> providing  buggy old version on 8os may push the process along so
> their  namesake code does not get a bad rap.  That kind of stuff
> can be hard to over come.


Yes but first ... it is his time and his choice what to do with it.  
Second aspect.  If you have run Linux for long (I am assuming you 
have btw) you know that all of the distro's run "compat" libs.  If 
Austin is able to create such a creature for maemo this can only help 
the people at Nokia as it gives them greater freedom to innovate with 
less fear of the problems associated with legacy.  

On the other hand  something still isn't right for me as I'm still 
getting the refusal to install due to version.  Onward and upward.  

James

>
> > I made a script to allow me to run OS2007 apps directly under
> > OS2008 by installing the appropriate libraries.
> > http://austinche.name/maemo/compat-os2007.sh
> >
> > I hand picked the compatibility libraries to install mainly
> > from just testing various apps to see what they needed, so it's
> > quite possible more libraries are needed.
> >
> > I've tested and successfully run several bora compiled
> > programs including osso-xterm (the old, more usable version),
> > fmradio, and aisleriot. There are some noticeable bugs in many
> > apps but most seem usable at least and seems to me to be a good
> > solution until more apps are ported. Of course, all os2008 apps
> > should still run normally.
> >
> > Works for me but use at your own risk. Your deb packages and
> > dependencies could be seriously screwed up.
> 
Ye
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Re: libraries for running os2007 apps under os2008

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 09:20:59 pm Austin Che wrote:
> I made a script to allow me to run OS2007 apps directly under
> OS2008 by installing the appropriate libraries.
> http://austinche.name/maemo/compat-os2007.sh
>
> I hand picked the compatibility libraries to install mainly
> from just testing various apps to see what they needed, so it's
> quite possible more libraries are needed.
>
> I've tested and successfully run several bora compiled programs
> including osso-xterm (the old, more usable version), fmradio,
> and aisleriot. There are some noticeable bugs in many apps but most
> seem usable at least and seems to me to be a good solution until
> more apps are ported. Of course, all os2008 apps should still run
> normally.
>
> Works for me but use at your own risk. Your deb packages and
> dependencies could be seriously screwed up.

Austin,
  
   After a recent "ooops" with my n800 and a fresh install (I was 
alpha testing an app with an unanticipated Easter egg.)   Once 
maemo.org and it's children are back up (seems they had some server 
maintenance at their ISP that was announced.)  I'll take it for a 
spin and see what else I can break *grin*

James
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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 01:32:43 am Jussi Kukkonen wrote:
> James Sparenberg wrote:
> >>> But I find a relatively common use case for terminal involves
> >>> switching terminals when in fullscreen mode - more so than
> >>> switching apps. And in full screen mode (maximising terminal
> >>> space), tabs really help this.
> >>
> >> Press Home key and thumb the terminal you want from the window
> >> list.  (it would be nice if the terminal would e.g. show the
> >> current directory name in the window title though)
> >
> > Not very practical actually.  If the screen updates (which if say
> > I'm compiling remotely it's constantly doing) then as soon as the
> > home widget pops up it closes and you can't use it.
>
>   [clip]
>
> No, it does not close. The menu stays on top while Xterm updates
> below it (OS v1.2007.44-4).
>
> > 1.  close the keyboard
> > 2.  put away the stylus
> > 3.  change hand position and minimize the screen
> > 4.  use home key open the list
> > 5.  change windows
> > 6.  re-maximize
>
> No offence, but it's really starting to sound like you're
> complaining before giving the "home key method" a chance... That
> list is quite far from reality.

Actually the above was there and now that window does stay up... now 
it stays up no matter what I do sometimes *sigh*.
>
>  All solutions to this problem are compromises, but as far as I'm
> concerned, the compromise in OS2008 is a damn good one: For the
> price of one additional key press we get maximal screen estate. As
> an added bonus the problem is solved platform wide, not just for
> one program.

The one thing you haven't heard me or others say is. the question "why 
did you fix something that wasn't broken."   I've actually lost 
screen real-estate (when the bar moved to the bottom.) I've never had 
to do left-right scrolling unless I turned my font up to 14+ in point 
size.   Yet instead of saying "we hear you and let us check with 
other users" I'm getting what to me sounds like "shut-up we know what 
you really need".  

Originally all I wanted to know was why the changes were made.  I 
didn't ask for arguments and put downs.  I wanted to know why since 
this tool is so integral to why I own an n800/770 (both) in the first 
place.  If I wanted "shut-up and like it" I'd own a mobile win 
device.  I apologize if my questions annoy you in any way.

James


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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 03 December 2007 11:18:52 pm Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2007 11:58 PM, James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > On Monday 03 December 2007 01:27:22 am Eero Tamminen wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > ext Paul Dundas wrote:
> > > >>> Why did they remove the useful tabs and replace it with
> > > >>> multiple windows?   Given that there is no WM in the
> > > >>> traditional sense you can't resize and move between them
> > > >>> easily.  Tabs afforded the ability to quickly manage
> > > >>> multiple term windows (my record on the IT is 10 tabs.)
> > > >>> Windows bring this to a grinding halt.
> > > >>
> > > >> Because the platform style is multiple windows. And tabs
> > > >> wasted quite a lot of *terminal window* space.
> > > >
> > > > But I find a relatively common use case for terminal involves
> > > > switching terminals when in fullscreen mode - more so than
> > > > switching apps. And in full screen mode (maximising terminal
> > > > space), tabs really help this.
> > >
> > > Press Home key and thumb the terminal you want from the window
> > > list.  (it would be nice if the terminal would e.g. show the
> > > current directory name in the window title though)
> >
> > Not very practical actually.  If the screen updates (which if say
> > I'm compiling remotely it's constantly doing) then as soon as the
> > home widget pops up it closes and you can't use it.  (in full
> > screen mode) plus to do this also requires that you
>
> I just tried this in OS2008 and it doesn't work as you say. Looks
> like they've fixed it.
> The home widget stays there until you explicitly tell it to go
> away.
>
>
> Perhaps allowing people to turn the feature on and off might be
> good.
>
> > On the other hand I never heard anyone complaining about the
> > tabs, or the bar on the right.  One size doesn't fit all you
> > know.
>
> I support customization.  You can put as many as you want into the
> Terminal application: is not intended for the end user anyway.

If the software isn't intended to be used by Nokia's customers who is 
supposed to use it?

James
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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 12:25:54 am Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> >> Press Home key and thumb the terminal you want from the window
> >> list.  (it would be nice if the terminal would e.g. show the
> >> current directory name in the window title though)
> >
> > Not very practical actually.  If the screen updates (which if say
> > I'm compiling remotely it's constantly doing) then as soon as the
> > home widget pops up it closes and you can't use it.  (in full
> > screen mode) plus to do this also requires that you
> >
> > 1.  close the keyboard
> > 2.  put away the stylus
> > 3.  change hand position and minimize the screen
>
> The above steps are not needed.
>
> > 4.  use home key open the list
> > 5.  change windows
>
> If you have the full screen finger keyboard open, you need
> to press Home key twice (first press closes FKBD), otherwise
> one Home key press is enough.
>
> > 6.  re-maximize
>
> This step is not needed either.


This is what I think you don't understand.  Using the thumkeyboard in 
Xterm is a royal problem.  It just doesn't work right, period, 
because you can't use it and see/read the screen at the same time.  
No cut and paste, and heaven help you if you are doing e-macs or 
vi ... because... depending on the remote system it often causes 
problems in that data previously entered gets lost due to focus 
change.  

James
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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 03 December 2007 01:27:22 am Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ext Paul Dundas wrote:
> >>> Why did they remove the useful tabs and replace it with
> >>> multiple windows?   Given that there is no WM in the
> >>> traditional sense you can't resize and move between them
> >>> easily.  Tabs afforded the ability to quickly manage multiple
> >>> term windows (my record on the IT is 10 tabs.) Windows bring
> >>> this to a grinding halt.
> >>
> >> Because the platform style is multiple windows. And tabs wasted
> >> quite a lot of *terminal window* space.
> >
> > But I find a relatively common use case for terminal involves
> > switching terminals when in fullscreen mode - more so than
> > switching apps. And in full screen mode (maximising terminal
> > space), tabs really help this.
>
> Press Home key and thumb the terminal you want from the window
> list.  (it would be nice if the terminal would e.g. show the
> current directory name in the window title though)
>
>
Not very practical actually.  If the screen updates (which if say I'm 
compiling remotely it's constantly doing) then as soon as the home 
widget pops up it closes and you can't use it.  (in full screen mode)  
plus to do this also requires that you 

1.  close the keyboard
2.  put away the stylus
3.  change hand position and minimize the screen 
4.  use home key open the list
5.  change windows 
6.  re-maximize

The thumb keyboard in xterm is a problem because it takes focus away 
from the term window, when it does it makes it conceptually, if 
nothing else, harder to use.,  so for me I stick with the pop-up 
keyboard.  Honestly for me the keys (home/menu/) and the D-Pad aren't 
used much at all.  

Perhaps allowing people to turn the feature on and off might be good.  
On the other hand I never heard anyone complaining about the tabs, or 
the bar on the right.  One size doesn't fit all you know.

James
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Re: OS2008 on n800 - Nice Job

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 29 November 2007 01:42:19 pm Frédéric Crozat wrote:
> Le jeudi 29 novembre 2007 à 21:28 +0100, Laurent GUERBY a écrit :
> > On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 23:43 +0100, Frédéric Crozat wrote:
> > > > https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667
> > >
> > > Well, documentation for enabling A2DP is extremely scarce atm,
> > > even in this bug report.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if I'll keep my BT headset or ask for a refund.
> >
> > On IRC I was told there was work done on it, I suggest
> > adding a comment with your model and problem on the
> > above bugzilla.
>
> Well, I've spend part of this afternoon at Mandriva office into
> fixing / enabling Audio bluetooth on Mandriva cooker and I've been
> successful into directing using ALSA output to headset (either in
> HSP or A2DP) or using gstreamer a2dp sink (from bluez-utils).
>
> Some dbus queries are needed to enable a2dp, which is why it can't
> work out of the box on IT2008.
>
> I'll do more test on n800 this week-end and report here.

Fredric, 
   I had my stereo phones working on OS2007 but with kagu only.  Here 
kagu won't yet install.  I'll be on mine as well over the weekend and 
If I get any kind of success I'll send you info.

  As near as I can tell the key is getting ESD to work sending sound 
to a "device" created in the .asoundrc file.  Alsa seems to be where 
most of the docs apply information.  

  Like I said I owe you enough from my past life with Mandrake that 
I'm hoping I can help you out here.

James

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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 29 November 2007 01:11:28 pm Thomas Armagost wrote:
>  Martin Grimme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I'm still wondering why Nokia now includes an X Terminal by
>  > default. Or is it just there in the beta releases?
>
> Mac OS X installs Terminal.app by default.  This is a Good Thing.
> Please continue installing xterm by default in OS2008, and thank
> you for improving the n800.
>
> Tallyho,
> Thomas Armagost

Thomas I will agree it's usually my #1 install until now.  

James
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Re: further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 29 November 2007 06:37:43 am Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 01:49 -0800, ext James Sparenberg wrote:
> > Why did they remove the useful tabs and replace it with multiple
> > windows?   Given that there is no WM in the traditional sense you
> > can't resize and move between them easily.  Tabs afforded the
> > ability to quickly manage multiple term windows (my record on the
> > IT is 10 tabs.) Windows bring this to a grinding halt.
>
> Because the platform style is multiple windows. And tabs wasted
> quite a lot of *terminal window* space. Also if you have 10 tabs,
> you cannot see pretty much anything relevant from the tab titles.
> Sure your case of 10 tabs is a bit special too - maybe you could
> just use "screen" instead?
>
> Multiple windows is consistent with the rest of the platform. I
> also think it makes sense for the same reason the browser does not
> have tabs: Tabs work a lot better in a large desktop where you can
> drag windows around and group some of them together. Since
> everything is fullscreen, tabs would just duplicate the function of
> the window switcher. You probably won't have *that* many apps open
> at once in a tablet anyway compared to a desktop computer anyway.
>
> > Why did they move the "button" bar to the bottom.  Down there is
> > steals valuable screen real-estate from you.
>
> It steals screen estate no matter where it is. The bottom-one is
> (again) consistent with the rest of the device, and it is easier to
> reach with fingers (remember the N810 has the keyboard so you hold
> it a bit differently in your hands!)

Note.  You tell tabs are no good because the use up screen space then 
put a large bar on the bottom   Also I'm using the n800 which 
needs the bar.  With the n810 ... you always have a keyboard,  You 
don't need the bar at all.  
>
> You can also hide the whole toolbar if you want.

good on the n810 not on the n800
>
> > Why is it that they split the adjust background color and font
> > color into two different locations in the settings gui?
>
> This is in the "we'll laugh over this when we are old" -category.
> ;)

And be glad that Jeff Raskin isn't around to blast you on that UI 
decision ;)


>
> > Why did they increase the steps to use the ctrl key in the button
> > bar? Before to do cntrl-c it was 2 clicks one on cntrl one on c
> > ... now it's 5.  cntrl - text box - c - ok - screen  during this
> > time the keyboard closes 2 or 3 times.  This can make vi a real
> > PITA too.
>
> Because a lot of stuff works differently with the physical
> keyboard. And because I have no clue if the input method works
> differently on the N800 with N810 OS release shoehorned into it?
> :-)

So now if I'm understanding you correct  Nokia is saying pox on 
the n800 user we are off on a different bend once again.


>
> > Perhaps I'm just using the IT differently from most, I don't view
> > it as sterility a muti-media toy.  To me it's my #1 tool for
> > doing my job, so perhaps I'm a bit sensitive.  Sorry if I sound
> > ranty I don't mean to be but I am wondering why so may drastic
> > changes were made to a really good app.
>
> The bottom line is: there is still the old one you can just rebuild
> for os2008 if it hasnt been built yet, and use that. We just made a
> version that could be shipped with the N810 for convenience.

No this is not a solution for a consumer product.  You and I both know 
this.  I guess I'm really going to have to find a viable replacement 
for the n800 I can't be switching hardware every year on a whim.  

>
> Also, the source is in garage as osso-xterm, so go and tweak it to
> your liking if you wish. I think all this "new" UI stuff is in the
> "ui-rework"-branch.

It doesn't build.  The whole library structure is different from a -to 
b and I'm not a C programmer.  


>
> //Tuomas
>
>
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further beating on OS2008 beta

[James Sparenberg]

All,

   So far a large part of my problems are sitting around apps that 
aren't yet ported to 2008.  unzip, radio, mplayer, nmap, omweather 
are a few that are  in the repository but don't install.  For now 
there are some things I don't understand.  I'm not trying to step on 
toes.  I just don't understand.

1.  Why did Nokia decide to change the industry defacto standard term 
plugin and change it to component?  tools > components shows you the 
browser plugins.  

2.  Why oh Why did someone take something as useful as xterm and 
improve to the point of being almost unusable?  I can't file bugs, as 
it is apparently doing what it is supposed to.   However, what it 
does really drives me nuts.  Maybe it's just me.  

 Why did they remove the useful tabs and replace it with multiple 
windows?   Given that there is no WM in the traditional sense you 
can't resize and move between them easily.  Tabs afforded the ability 
to quickly manage multiple term windows (my record on the IT is 10 
tabs.) Windows bring this to a grinding halt. 

Why did they move the "button" bar to the bottom.  Down there is 
steals valuable screen real-estate from you.  

Why is it that they split the adjust background color and font color 
into two different locations in the settings gui?

Why did they increase the steps to use the ctrl key in the button bar?  
Before to do cntrl-c it was 2 clicks one on cntrl one on c ... now 
it's 5.  cntrl - text box - c - ok - screen  during this time the 
keyboard closes 2 or 3 times.  This can make vi a real PITA too. 

Perhaps I'm just using the IT differently from most, I don't view it 
as sterility a muti-media toy.  To me it's my #1 tool for doing my 
job, so perhaps I'm a bit sensitive.  Sorry if I sound ranty I don't 
mean to be but I am wondering why so may drastic changes were made to 
a really good app.

James




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Re: Problem in 2008 and looking for duplicate

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 28 November 2007 08:33:10 pm James Sparenberg wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:54:23 pm Austin Che wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:32:20 pm James Sparenberg 
wrote:
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>OK.  Since I installed 2008 If experienced a marked
> > >> decrease in batter life.  As in total IDLE time is around 1
> > >> hour.  This is of course not good.  So I started looking and
> > >> I've found that even after a reboot something called
> > >> metaplayer-crawl is running my cpu constantly at around 94-98%
> > >> ...However if i do something else like say hit a key on the
> > >> keyboard.  It will play nice  release cpu and then climb
> > >> right back up again.  I can't kill it it comes right back at
> > >> the same high levels.  In short.  my n800 is all but useless
> > >> because of this.
> > >>
> > >>   Is anyone else seeing this?
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >
> > > my bad that is metalayer not metaplayer.  sorry.
> >
> > Ah ha. Thanks! I've been seeing the same thing all day with
> > the device being unresponsive and not much battery life. Now I
> > remember that I had disabled the bad metalayer-crawler daemon on
> > os2007 as it really takes over when you have lots of media. I've
> > just killed it again and the difference in usability of the
> > interface is markedly increased:
> > update-rc.d -f metalayer-crawler0 remove
>
> YOWZER I wasn't complaining before about the speed of the
> system But doing the above then a reboot and it's down right
> snappy!!
>
> Now ... off to bug land... filing time.
>
> James
>
Someone had beaten me to the punch on filing a bug.  So I voted for 
and added my comments to bug 1842.  If any one else sees this, first 
run the work around Austin provided (thanks) and then please vote for 
#1842

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1842

James
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Re: Problem in 2008 and looking for duplicate

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:54:23 pm Austin Che wrote:
> > On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:32:20 pm James Sparenberg wrote:
> >> All,
> >>
> >>
> >>OK.  Since I installed 2008 If experienced a marked decrease
> >> in batter life.  As in total IDLE time is around 1 hour.  This
> >> is of course not good.  So I started looking and I've found that
> >> even after a reboot something called metaplayer-crawl is running
> >> my cpu constantly at around 94-98% ...However if i do something
> >> else like say hit a key on the keyboard.  It will play nice 
> >> release cpu and then climb right back up again.  I can't kill it
> >> it comes right back at the same high levels.  In short.  my n800
> >> is all but useless because of this.
> >>
> >>   Is anyone else seeing this?
> >>
> >> James
> >
> > my bad that is metalayer not metaplayer.  sorry.
>
> Ah ha. Thanks! I've been seeing the same thing all day with the
> device being unresponsive and not much battery life. Now I
> remember that I had disabled the bad metalayer-crawler daemon
> on os2007 as it really takes over when you have lots of media. I've
> just killed it again and the difference in usability of the
> interface is markedly increased:
> update-rc.d -f metalayer-crawler0 remove

YOWZER I wasn't complaining before about the speed of the system  
But doing the above then a reboot and it's down right snappy!!

Now ... off to bug land... filing time.

James


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Re: Problem in 2008 and looking for duplicate

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 28 November 2007 07:32:20 pm James Sparenberg wrote:
> All,
>
>
>OK.  Since I installed 2008 If experienced a marked decrease in
> batter life.  As in total IDLE time is around 1 hour.  This is of
> course not good.  So I started looking and I've found that even
> after a reboot something called metaplayer-crawl is running my cpu
> constantly at around 94-98% ...However if i do something else like
> say hit a key on the keyboard.  It will play nice  release cpu
> and then climb right back up again.  I can't kill it it comes right
> back at the same high levels.  In short.  my n800 is all but
> useless because of this.
>
>   Is anyone else seeing this?
>
> James

my bad that is metalayer not metaplayer.  sorry.
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Problem in 2008 and looking for duplicate

[James Sparenberg]

All,  


   OK.  Since I installed 2008 If experienced a marked decrease in 
batter life.  As in total IDLE time is around 1 hour.  This is of 
course not good.  So I started looking and I've found that even after 
a reboot something called metaplayer-crawl is running my cpu 
constantly at around 94-98% ...However if i do something else like 
say hit a key on the keyboard.  It will play nice  release cpu 
and then climb right back up again.  I can't kill it it comes right 
back at the same high levels.  In short.  my n800 is all but useless 
because of this.  

  Is anyone else seeing this?

James
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I have USB host!

[James Sparenberg]

Ok.  On OS2008 I did the following.

1.  Got a femail to femail connector so I can attach keyboard cable to 
the IT USB cable.

2.  ran this command in a term window (where # is teh command prompt) 
as root.

   # echo "host" > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode

3.  plugged in the keyboard.

4.  Ignored complaints about unsupported device and began to type and 
giggle like a madman *grin*.


NOTE:  I'm in R&D mode not sure if this works outside of this mode 
yet.


James


PS.  I also connected  a pen drive... It claimed the device was 
ussuported then ... it opened the file manager mounted the device and 
showed me the files

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Re: OS2008 on n800 - Nice Job

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 27 November 2007 03:26:48 pm Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> Real nice job indeed! Everything feels smooth on my N800 with
> RX-34_2008SE_1.2007.44-4 even scrolling graphic heavy photoblog
> entries like:
>
> http://www.mamicha.org/blog/index.php?post/2007/11/13/La-rigole-de-
>la-montagne
>
> Thumb can be used consistently everywhere to navigate without going
> to the stylus and that's really great. The PDF reader also benefits
> from this with easy thumb next and previous page in full screen
> mode.
>
> I tested my SU-8W bluetooth keyboard and it worked like for
> all other previous versions. My globalsat BT-359 bluetooth GPS too
> with the experimental port of maemo mapper 2 from here:
>
> http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/
>
> (Gnuite will do an official OS2008 port in the coming weeks)
>
> The real news for me is that my Logitech Bluetooth Mobile Freedom
> headset did pair with my N800 (which said profile: HSP) and both
> sound/music AND recording with maemo recorder worked. Gizmo/SIP
> worked with the bluetooth headset too. I don't use Skype but I
> don't see a reason why it should not work too :).
>
> Thanks Nokia!
>
> Laurent
>
> PS: headset support request bugzilla
> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474
>

Laurent,  Stereo headphones?

James
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OS2008-beta1

[James Sparenberg]

The only gotcha's I'm finding are,

1.  xterm is kinda borked.  You can only change background color via 
the gui now and they moved the "text buttons"  from the right to the 
bottom which means that if you are using the keyboard and editing a 
file it's barely usable in that 60% of the screen is now taken up by 
something other than the term window. 

2.  There are a lot of programs that are in the repositories but can't 
install due to missing libs.  Still tracking down the repository 
chain of events (for example vncviewer, rdesktop etc)

Still working my way through all of this so that I can be sure that a 
bug is a bug before filing.

James
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Re: Bug in Maps application

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 27 November 2007 02:31:20 pm Frédéric Crozat wrote:
> Le mardi 27 novembre 2007 à 22:46 +0100, Frédéric Crozat a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > according to Wayfinder website
> > http://www.wayfinder.com/?id=5365&lang=en-US Nokia is supposed to
> > support "Maps" application shipped with IT2008.
> >
> > Unfortunately, there is no such component in Maemo bugzilla ATM.
> >
> > Until this is fixed, here is a nice bug report for Maps
> > application : -this application saves its maps data downloaded to
> > the internal memory card (I'm speaking about n800) but it does
> > check if there is enough free space on it while downloading,
> > which cause the download progress bar to get stuck at one value
> > and never go beyond (and of course, there is no "no space
> > available" warning.
> > -you can't change the default memory card used by this
> > application. This is problematic : for instance, I have a 128MB
> > internal memory card and a 2GB external memory card and I can't
> > download France maps (300MB), unless I use symlinks from one card
> > to another.
>
> Correction, since I did more tests :
> - you can't use symlinks from one card to another

You can.. IF you change the file system on the cards (and adjust fstab 
accordingly) to something other than dos.

> - fortunately, you can move the "map" directory from the internal
> card to the external card and Maps application will use external
> card by default.
>
> Unfortunately, even with this change, there seems to be a problem
> on the server side which is unable to sent the entire data (or
> something like that).


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Re: New, renamed version of 770-encode video converter now available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 20 November 2007 01:30:51 pm Peter Flynn wrote:
> Andrew Flegg wrote:
> > Many of you use my script 770-encode to transcode videos for your
> > Nokia Internet Tablet. This name is obviously an anachronism, so
> > to go along with the imminent availability of the N810, it's now
> > been renamed "tablet-encode" and moved to a Garage project:
>
> This looks really excellent, many thanks.
>
> One small query, however, from someone who knows absolutely zilch
> about video files...if I insert a DVD into my Ubuntu Gutsy laptop,
> how do I know *which* file[s] to give as arguments to
> tablet-encode? The listing of /media/cdrom0 says there's an
> AUDIO_TS directory (empty) and a VIDEO_TS directory (full):
>
> $ ls -l /media/cdrom0/VIDEO_TS/
> total 7430712
> -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295  12288 2002-03-20 11:23
> VIDEO_TS.BUP -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295  12288
> 2002-03-20 11:23 VIDEO_TS.IFO -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295  
> 10364928 2002-03-20 11:23 VIDEO_TS.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295
> 4294967295  88064 2002-03-20 11:23 VTS_01_0.BUP -r--r--r-- 1
> 4294967295 4294967295  88064 2002-03-20 11:23 VTS_01_0.IFO
> -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295  379172864 2002-03-20 11:25
> VTS_01_0.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295 1073725440
> 2002-03-20 11:32 VTS_01_1.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295
> 1073266688 2002-03-20 11:40 VTS_01_2.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295
> 4294967295 1073688576 2002-03-20 11:47 VTS_01_3.VOB -r--r--r-- 1
> 4294967295 4294967295 1073670144 2002-03-20 11:54 VTS_01_4.VOB
> -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295 1073338368 2002-03-20 12:02
> VTS_01_5.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295 1073418240
> 2002-03-20 12:09 VTS_01_6.VOB -r--r--r-- 1 4294967295 4294967295 
> 778203136 2002-03-20 12:14 VTS_01_7.VOB $
>
> What do I need to list as arguments? VOB files? BUP files? IFO
> files?
>
> (By the same token, although unrelated here, for the --copy-audio
> option, how would one know if the audio track is already MP3 or
> not)
>
> Is there some way a self-detecting shell can be built around
> table-encode that will sniff at the mounted DVD and see what files
> are needed?
>
> ///Peter


Peter,

   The VOB files are the ones.  VOB stands for DVD Video OBject. The 
VOB file is one of the core files found on DVD-Video discs and 
contains multiplexed Dolby Digital audio.

James



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Re: N810 on a N800?

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 15 November 2007 09:55:09 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
> Hmm – I think I would rather wait until the “official” release!
>
>

I understand your position,  But I'm in a fix pickle myself.  I've got 
some serious problems with my current install.  So do I update, with 
some loss of function, re-install with the knowledge that as soon as 
tomorrow, I'll be doing it again, or wait it out.  

I don't care when but it really would be nice to be able to plan.

James

>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Nicholas
> Shaw
> Sent: 15 November 2007 14:35
> To: 'José Luís'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: maemo-users@maemo.org
> Subject: RE: N810 on a N800?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Allan! I just started the download so that part of the
> instructions works! J
>
>
>
> Nick.
>
>
>
>   _
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of José Luís
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: maemo-users@maemo.org
> Subject: Re: N810 on a N800?
>
>
>
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> I try and works.
>
> Thanks for the tip. This new OS version is more fast and usable
> than the later versions.
>
> On 11/15/07, Alan Williamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9816300-7.html?tag=nefd.only
>
> Anyone tried this?
>
> --
> Alan Williamson
>   "a wiki -and- a blog" @ http://www.Blog-City.com/


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Re: bora3.2 sdk ...

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 06 November 2007 07:49:21 pm James Sparenberg wrote:
> Ok,  Running through the SDK I've gotten 3.1 installed N/P.  I've
> gotten Armel to update N/P. However when I get to the x86 SDK what
> happens is that I'm suddenly stuck on the most basic of debs.
> Literally the base files.
>
> (Reading database ... 14668 files and directories currently
> installed.)
> Preparing qto replace base-files 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7 (using
> base-files_3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7_i386.deb) ...
> Unpacking replacement base-files ...
> Setting up base-files (3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7) ...
> /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/run/utmp':
> Operation not permitted
> /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/wtmp':
> Operation not permitted
> /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/btmp':
> Operation not permitted
> /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of
> `/var/log/lastlog': Operation not permitted
> dpkg: error processing base-files (--install):
>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  base-files
>
> Just for grins I chmoded the above files 777 (they are owned by my
> user.) and it still couldn't chown them.. Nor does it tell me what
> it wants to chown them to.
>
> James

Probably should include all the words.. 3.1 is installed now I'm 
updating it IAW the install.txt for 3.2.. and getting the above 
problem.

James
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bora3.2 sdk ...

[James Sparenberg]

Ok,  Running through the SDK I've gotten 3.1 installed N/P.  I've 
gotten Armel to update N/P. However when I get to the x86 SDK what 
happens is that I'm suddenly stuck on the most basic of debs.  
Literally the base files. 
 
(Reading database ... 14668 files and directories currently 
installed.)
Preparing to replace base-files 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7 (using 
base-files_3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7_i386.deb) ...
Unpacking replacement base-files ...
Setting up base-files (3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso7) ...
/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/run/utmp': 
Operation not permitted
/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/wtmp': 
Operation not permitted
/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/btmp': 
Operation not permitted
/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/lastlog': 
Operation not permitted
dpkg: error processing base-files (--install):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
 base-files

Just for grins I chmoded the above files 777 (they are owned by my 
user.) and it still couldn't chown them.. Nor does it tell me what it 
wants to chown them to.  

James

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Re: N800 headphone

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 03 November 2007 01:44:24 am Kemal Hadimli wrote:
> afaik nokia's cell phone headphones have a 2.5mm jack, the tablet
> headphones have a 3.5mm jack. at least it's like this with 6120c and
> 6300. check before buying. ie. the HS-47 is 2.5mm whilst HS-48 is
> 3.5mm.
> (which sucks imo, wish they all had the same 3.5mm jack)
>
> On 11/3/07, James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 November 2007 06:18:05 pm Peter Flynn wrote:
> > > Looks like the guy on Ebay who sold me the N800 left out the headphone
> > > and can't find it. Duuh.
> > >
> > > I can't locate a replacement (perhaps unsurprisingly) and the Nokia
> > > dealers here (Ireland) seem to be phone-only people and haven't come
> > > across the N800.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a place to buy a replacement? The Nokia web site is
> > > all Flash about phones and doesn't seem to deal with spares.
> > >
> > > ///Peter
> > > ___
> > > maemo-users mailing list
> > > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> > The headphone for the 6103 nokia cell phone is nearly identical as like
> > the n800 it has a radio.  (I lost my n800 phones so I use ones for my
> > phone) just make sure you get the stereo ones not the mono.
> >
> > But just for listening I've a set of labtech noise reduction cans that
> > work fine.
> >
> >
> > James
>

Like I said.  My 6103 fits fine ... as do a standard set of labtech cans. 

James
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Re: N800 headphone

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 01 November 2007 06:18:05 pm Peter Flynn wrote:
> Looks like the guy on Ebay who sold me the N800 left out the headphone
> and can't find it. Duuh.
>
> I can't locate a replacement (perhaps unsurprisingly) and the Nokia
> dealers here (Ireland) seem to be phone-only people and haven't come
> across the N800.
>
> Does anyone know of a place to buy a replacement? The Nokia web site is
> all Flash about phones and doesn't seem to deal with spares.
>
> ///Peter
> ___
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The headphone for the 6103 nokia cell phone is nearly identical as like the 
n800 it has a radio.  (I lost my n800 phones so I use ones for my phone) just 
make sure you get the stereo ones not the mono.

But just for listening I've a set of labtech noise reduction cans that work 
fine.


James

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Re: need a community board?

[James Sparenberg]

On Monday 29 October 2007 07:53:54 Berhan SOYLU wrote:
> I think we need a community message board. Nowadays, there comes nearly 20
> mails per a day...mail group is so primitive for this..Is there anyone who
> knows why we don't have o message board like phpbb, smf or something like
> etc...?

The volume here IMHO is low.  I just miss threading.  Advantage mail lists is 
offline access IMHO.

James

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Re: kphone on N800

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 22:04:54 Jonathan Greene wrote:
> In OS2008, you can just add a SIP account just as you would Jabber or
> GTalk.  This will work on the N800 and the N810 and even support
> bluetooth headset profile for maximum VOIPing!  It looks as this also
> supports the built-in presence features as well, but I've only just
> scratched the surface on my N810 in this regard.
>
> 
Are you enjoying rubbing ouor noses in what you have but we don't yet. *grin* 
(I'm saying this very tongue in cheeck btw) 

On a serious note.  does the new kernel in 2008 have MPPE built in?  Some of 
us are forced to connect to WinNets on occasion and this is a sticking point.  
On the other hand I've gotten my buns registered for the seminar Nokia is 
giving at Stanford on Nov 6th, so I can start building kernel images that I 
can flash and that actually work.  (novel idea I think.)

James
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Re: N800 Disk Full? Erratic Behavior SOLVED

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 21:35:38 you wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 20:41 -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
> > On Sunday 28 October 2007 10:04:02 Peter Bart wrote:
> >
> > Ok rundown one section at a time.
>
> 
>
>   Thank you for going through one at a time. It has helped me to
> understand.
>
> > Alright.  The following might go a long way to improving things for you.
> >
> > 1.  Don't save files in /home/user  if all they are is "data" (if it
> > isn't a lib/driver or executable it's data)
>
>   That seemed to be a large part of my problem. I moved all data files
> onto the memory cards. I had deleted all included pictures, videos, and
> users guides save the one I use at the time I flashed the device.
>
> > 2.  Make a decission on what software you actually use.  I've got a ton
> > of programs installed and I'm no where near 80% on /  I also use every
> > one of the programs I have installed.  Daily.  It's just to easy to
> > install on the fly if I need something to worry about what I might need.
>
>   I did just that and uninstalled a lot of software. I'm afraid I'm
> somewhat of a virtual packrat as well.
>
> >  Also this is *nix
> > if you have installed on another box just run it from there.  No need to
> > have it all local (same thing for data)
>
>   I would do this except for a large part of the day I'm out of wifi
> range. So I need that data and programs locally.
>
> > 3.  go into your (what is that windows word. oh yeah) control panel
> > and click memory and enable swap.  Life will be better.  Running as heavy
> > as you are with installed apps and files, it's likely that the OS really
> > could stand a memory boost.  That's what this will provide.
>
>   I do that right after flashing a new image.
>
> > The IT is a small foot print device and a Linux system.  Both of which
> > shift the way non *nix users think about computers.
>
>   All of the things mentioned above have reduced "disk" usage
> significantly. Thank you to all who have replied!
>
> Best Regards,

As for going through it one line at a time.  Hey I'm just paying it forward a 
bit here.  Sooner or later it will be your turn to add to the mix.  

Some things that would help  get larger, or more  SD cards.  Then you can 
swap them out for the sake of data access.  (the outside card is hot 
swapable.)   

James 

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Re: N800 won't connect via WPA2...says "network does not support"

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 10:09:24 Mike Klein wrote:
> Thanks for help all.
>
> I managed to unbrick my wrt54gl (tftp via orig. linksys firmware at
> reboot of unit...whew!) and got onto v24RC4 (was on rc1). This and a
> reboot after configuring for "WPA2Mixed/TKIP+AES" yields the following
> results:
>
> 8525 (WM5): Connect via WPA2/AES (at least it says so)
> N800: Connect only via WPA (wpa2 still yields network msg)...not sure
> whether tkip or aes.
> ST5111 (WinXP): Now (After router reboot) uses WPA/AES and not
> tkip...but still no wpa2.
> Tried Msoft and Athereos...only atheros had wpa2 option...but it
> falls back to wpa.
> Inspiron (WinXP): WPA-PSK/AES (not even option for wpa2)
>
> So firmware upgrade only yielded ability to use AES whereas before all
> clients were tkip. The router reboot after making settings changes may
> have done this actually. dd-wrt seems to get a little confused when
> you're in the ui going and forth between ssid hidden/visible and making
> security changes.
>
> I will start looking for dd-wrt bug/changelist (they don't bundle with
> firmware downloads?!?) and am of belief now that (perhaps) WM5 is
> "falling back" to WPA...although I do have it explicitly set to WPA2 and
> not WPA. I wouldn't think fallback would NOT occur in this case as there
> is specific selection for wpa2. Oddly enough my tablet pc (st5111) only
> has WPA2/WPA option...wpa2 cannot be forced.
>
> [side note]
> dd-wrt is so flexible now. I could setup virtual ssid (all are hidden)
> for my wife's old WEP-only laptop and further restrict access by macid.
> I am even restricting by macid on wpa2 ssid as well. N800 is in these
> lists although it's hostname doesn't show up in wifi list.
>
> What was I thinking reflashing my primary AP first and not my backup
> unit...that's what it's there for...doh!
> [/side note]
>
>
> mike

Mike I like to think of doing this kind of thing as a desire to live 
dagerously and an inward urge to really chew my own a$$ out.  *grin*

James
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Re: N800 Disk Full? Erratic Behavior

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 10:04:02 Peter Bart wrote:

Ok rundown one section at a time. 
>
> /home/user # cd /
> / # df -h
> FilesystemSize  Used Available Use% Mounted on
> /dev/mtdblock42.0M  2.0M 0 100% /mnt/initfs
this will always be at 100% as it's a compressed FS that you don't write too. 
(it's what is flashed) No matter how large/small initfs is it's by design 
always 100% since it's both a file and a file system.  
> none512.0k 68.0k444.0k  13% /mnt/initfs/tmp
tmp is a little heavy but OK . No real problem.  this is again part of the 
initfs so it's actuall the same as /tmp  confusing perhaps but it's 
related to this being an embeded device not a standard computer. 
> /dev/mtdblock4  251.5M202.2M 49.3M  80% /
Well you've almost filled the on board memory in your root witch means most 
likely that you really could stand deleting all of the default video's and 
the multiple languaged PDF's maemo comes with.  But still there is a fairly 
large about of space left.No real need to panic until you are above 95% 
but close enough to bother to keep your eye on it. 
> none512.0k 68.0k444.0k  13% /tmp
this is your temp dir.  Normal 
> none  1.0M 60.0k964.0k   6% /dev
Ok /dev (or devices) is good.  This is actually a "virtual" partition in that 
it's dynamic in nature.  
> /dev/mmcblk1p1  120.0M784.0k119.3M   1% /media/mmc1
Ok no sweat.  you seem to not even use this card.
> /dev/mmcblk0p1  979.2M389.5M589.6M  40% /media/mmc2
no problem here either.

Alright.  The following might go a long way to improving things for you.

1.  Don't save files in /home/user  if all they are is "data" (if it isn't a 
lib/driver or executable it's data) 
2.  Make a decission on what software you actually use.  I've got a ton of 
programs installed and I'm no where near 80% on /  I also use every one of 
the programs I have installed.  Daily.  It's just to easy to install on the 
fly if I need something to worry about what I might need. Also this is *nix 
if you have installed on another box just run it from there.  No need to have 
it all local (same thing for data)
3.  go into your (what is that windows word. oh yeah) control panel and 
click memory and enable swap.  Life will be better.  Running as heavy as you 
are with installed apps and files, it's likely that the OS really could stand 
a memory boost.  That's what this will provide.  

The IT is a small foot print device and a Linux system.  Both of which shift 
the way non *nix users think about computers.  

>
> Best Regards,


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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 05:52:24 Peter Flynn wrote:
> James Sparenberg wrote:
> [me]
>
> >> filetree: texmf
> >> default-install-location: /usr/share
> >> alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share
> >> alternate-install-location: /mnt/*
> >> alternate-install-location: /media/*
> >>
> >> (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating
> >> a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large
> >> data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable.
> >
> > But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS.
>
> Sure...so do it with a soft link /media/whatever/texmf /usr/share/texmf
> It's not important *how* it's done, merely to provide for its doing.
> Otherwise it makes the package more hardware-dependent than it need be.
>
What makes the package HW dependent is the arch it's compiled for.  (unless 
it's a driver) Not the location of the install.  That's why the FHS.  all 
*nix's have nearly the same file structure.

James
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Interesting "Bug" in the garage UI.

[James Sparenberg]

Quim and others. 

   Not really complaining but did notice somethin while posting feedback on a 
project in the garage.  

   If you click on the forums link it takes you to the forums page.  Expected.  
Forums work.  no problem there . BUT if you first read an annoucement and 
post a reply there.  It isn't the same forum as the forum page.  The two 
aren't connected.  Shouldn't the forum for the announcement be a top level 
topic of the forum for the project itself?

James
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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Sunday 28 October 2007 02:12:19 James Sparenberg wrote:
> On Saturday 27 October 2007 06:58:19 Peter Flynn wrote:
> > James Sparenberg wrote:
> > [alternate install location]
> >
> > > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb
> > > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has
> > > enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't.
> >
> > That'll do nicely.
> >
> > > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation
> > > (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.)  but no
> > > easy way I know of.
> >
> > That's not a problem. I'm accustomed to passing dead chickens over the
> > keyboard, and I know the "right" directory structure (TDS) and where to
> > put it.
>
> Then look into  google and methods for cracking open a deb.   It's pretty
> straight forward BUT you loss all install scripts.
>
> > > Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally
> > > pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the
> > > greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone
> > > ritual are on our own.
> >
> > Absolutely. It's the one area where the otherwise intolerable Windows
> > installation nov^H^H^Hwizards score: they *ask* where you want it put,
> > which is precisely what most Unix users *don't* want to have to bother
> > with. The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted
> > internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially
> > large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest
> > that .debs could provide installation parameters like
> >
> > filetree: texmf
> > default-install-location: /usr/share
> > alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share
> > alternate-install-location: /mnt/*
> > alternate-install-location: /media/*
> >
> > (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating
> > a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large
> > data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable.
>
> But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS.  and there is the
> nasty little problem of removal.  Even in windows land if you put it in
> the "wrong" place you pay a removal tax.  Linux doesn't (unless you a a
> gnomey) have a registry ... (thank god) and so when we remove things they
> are really gone not just removing a letter in a file name.
>
> The other option is to not use debs.  Build it from source and tarball it
> over.  then you get it where you want.  (I do ti all the time. on my
> laptop.)
>
> > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either.
> > > File system mount thing.
> >
> > Ah. But presumably you can
> > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/
> > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus).
>
> Hence the word default It was meant as a heads up.  By defautl the
> dosFS is mounted ro not rw.
>
> 
And I'm tired that should have been noexec not exec.  They are mounted rw 
*sigh*  Sorry for the error there. 

James
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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 27 October 2007 11:09:39 Steve Greenland wrote:
> According to Peter Flynn  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either.
> > >  File system mount thing.
> >
> > Ah. But presumably you can
> > $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/
> > (it certainly worked on the Zaurus).
>
> You can link, but if the card is mounted with the noexec option, it
> doesn't matter. The good news is that a simple
>
>   mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1
>
> (as root) should fix it. Automating that I leave as an excercise for the
> reader (translateion: I don't know).
>
> Steve

edit fstab and remove the word noexec.  

James

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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 27 October 2007 06:58:19 Peter Flynn wrote:
> James Sparenberg wrote:
> [alternate install location]
>
> > No easy method no. On the other hand one of the first things a deb
> > installer does is check to see if it can install. (meaning it has
> > enough space) and then bomb out if it doesn't.
>
> That'll do nicely.
>
> > I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation
> > (also involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.)  but no
> > easy way I know of.
>
> That's not a problem. I'm accustomed to passing dead chickens over the
> keyboard, and I know the "right" directory structure (TDS) and where to
> put it.

Then look into  google and methods for cracking open a deb.   It's pretty 
straight forward BUT you loss all install scripts.

>
> > Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally
> > pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the
> > greatest number of users. Those of us who dare try the chicken bone
> > ritual are on our own.
>
> Absolutely. It's the one area where the otherwise intolerable Windows
> installation nov^H^H^Hwizards score: they *ask* where you want it put,
> which is precisely what most Unix users *don't* want to have to bother
> with. The problem only really arises on systems with very restricted
> internal (/usr/share, /usr/local) space (PDAs) but with potentially
> large volumes off to one side like /media. Perhaps it's time to suggest
> that .debs could provide installation parameters like
>
> filetree: texmf
> default-install-location: /usr/share
> alternate-install-location: /usr/local/share
> alternate-install-location: /mnt/*
> alternate-install-location: /media/*
>
> (the * meaning "prompt user"). Purists will hate the idea of initiating
> a dialog during an install, but for applications which have a very large
> data footprint like TeX, I think it's justifiable.

But allowing files all over the place violates the FHS.  and there is the 
nasty little problem of removal.  Even in windows land if you put it in 
the "wrong" place you pay a removal tax.  Linux doesn't (unless you a a 
gnomey) have a registry ... (thank god) and so when we remove things they are 
really gone not just removing a letter in a file name.  

The other option is to not use debs.  Build it from source and tarball it 
over.  then you get it where you want.  (I do ti all the time. on my laptop.)


>
> > oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. 
> > File system mount thing.
>
> Ah. But presumably you can
> $ ln -s /media/disk1/texmf/bin/latex /usr/local/bin/
> (it certainly worked on the Zaurus).
>
Hence the word default It was meant as a heads up.  By defautl the dosFS 
is mounted ro not rw.  

James
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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 26 October 2007 17:37:24 James Sparenberg wrote:
> On Friday 26 October 2007 17:12:26 Peter Flynn wrote:
> > Thanks Jonathan and James for pointing out Application manager to do
> > this (far too easy for my tortured mind :-)
> >
> > It's always surprising and pleased to find that someone has taken the
> > trouble to include this kind of functionality in an application.
> >
> > Any thoughts on how to force a large .deb to use a different directory
> > for installing its files? I don't want to start installing it only to
> > find it doesn't allow the install directory to be changed, and then just
> > goes ahead and hangs the system because it's used up all available disk
> > space in /
> >
> > ///Peter
>
> No easy method no.  On the other hand one of the first things a deb
> installer does is check to see if it can install.  (meaning it has enough
> space) and then bomb out if it doesn't.
>
> I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation (also
> involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.)  but no easy way I
> know of.  Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved
> intentionally pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for
> the greatest number of users.  Those of us who dare try the chicken bone
> ritual are on our own.
>
> oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either. 
> File system mount thing.
>
> James
>
That should have been "No easy method I know of, no" sorry forget to typ ALL 
the words.

James
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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 26 October 2007 17:12:26 Peter Flynn wrote:
> Thanks Jonathan and James for pointing out Application manager to do
> this (far too easy for my tortured mind :-)
>
> It's always surprising and pleased to find that someone has taken the
> trouble to include this kind of functionality in an application.
>
> Any thoughts on how to force a large .deb to use a different directory
> for installing its files? I don't want to start installing it only to
> find it doesn't allow the install directory to be changed, and then just
> goes ahead and hangs the system because it's used up all available disk
> space in /
>
> ///Peter

No easy method no.  On the other hand one of the first things a deb installer 
does is check to see if it can install.  (meaning it has enough space) and 
then bomb out if it doesn't. 

I might be possible to unpack the deb and do some hand manipulation (also 
involves a chicken bone and eye of newt at midnight.)  but no easy way I know 
of.  Problem here is that the creators of deb/rpm/etc haved intentionally 
pushed this function to the side to maintain ease of use for the greatest 
number of users.  Those of us who dare try the chicken bone ritual are on our 
own. 

oh and you can't execute a binary from the mmc cards by default either.  File 
system mount thing.

James
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Re: Installing apps when there's no installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 26 October 2007 15:39:40 Peter Flynn wrote:
> A large number of the apps listed at http://maemo.org/downloads have a
> greyed out button labelled "missing install". The link to these apps'
> homepages eventually takes you to the downloads, including a .deb, but
> I'm not an apt-get expert: how do I make it install from a .deb that
> I've already downloaded, without using a repository? The apt-get man
> page is silent on this.
>
> For very large apps, eg MaemoTeX, I will want to ensure that it goes
> onto my external SD card (rather than wherever it thinks it ought to
> go), and then soft-link the binaries to /usr/local/bin. Is there a way
> to override the default install paths, or will I need to unzip the .deb
> and do it manually?
>
> ///Peter
>
Peter, open your Application manager then click on the words "Application 
Manager" at the top of the screen, or press the "menu" key on the IT. This 
willl open a menu where you click "Application" and "Install from file" This 
will allow you to navigate to where you saved the .deb and install it.

James
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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 09:44:53 Steve Greenland wrote:
> According to James Sparenberg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I fully understand what it's doing  but not why it's doing it.  Since
> > the act of doing the first update is the equivalent of "apt-get update" 
> > However if you use Adept/Synaptic/dpkg etc the act of the update
> > accumulates all of this information in one act.
>
> No, they don't.
>
> Every time you start aptitude, it has to read the dpkg and apt database
> files and load its internal data structures, even if you haven't done
> an update. Every time you run an install, after it completes, aptitude
> has to re-read the files/caches and reload its internal data structures.
> The AM is doing the same, reading the dpkg database and loading its GUI
> list structures. What makes it painful is that you can only act on one
> package at time.
>
> Regards,
> Steve

I'll concede that it could be a perceptual point more than anything.  But some 
aspects are in one act.  When I do an apt-get update  not only does it check 
for changes to the DB but it also adjust them IAW my existing DB.  Or am I 
making myself as clear as mud.  ( I know what I want to say and most likely 
I'm to tired to say it. Creating a new installer for my companies production 
environments.)

And yes the one at a time is painful and IMHO leads to frustration and me 
using apt.

James

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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support and the repository question

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 09:30:50 Steve Greenland wrote:
> According to Krischan Keitsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > The optimum may be between the two - meaning we need some kind of
> > a quality management for the community efforts. To approve that
> > just verified and checked apps are in the official and universe
> > repositories. So that Jill Random and ourselves can benefit from rock
> > solid high quality apps. What do you think?
>
> Who is going to do the testing and certification? It's a lot of work,
> and not particularly rewarding. And I can guarantee that sooner or later
> some developers will feel personally maltreated by any such group.
>
> Probably the easiest workable solution is something like the Debian
> unstable/testing process, whereby packages are uploaded to unstable, and
> migrate to testing after meeting certain criteria (no new serious bugs,
> installs with only other testing packages, etc.)
>
> But I'd settle for just getting people to use one repo, rather than
> setting up there own.
>
> Regards,
> Steve

Heck I'm hoping for an agreement on how to spell "Utilities"  (Ok cheap shot 
meant to be humorous not mean.)  But case sensitive does yield fun in this 
area.

James



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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 09:26:07 Steve Greenland wrote:
> According to James Sparenberg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Thursday 18 October 2007 11:30:34 Marius Gedminas wrote:
> > > I sincerely hope Maemo Extras rejects sourceless packages.
> > >
> > > Marius Gedminas
> >
> > Marius,
> >
> >I would hope that they reject binary packages period, in that like
> > every distro I've worked with you submit a src (rpm deb tgz etc) and the
> > distro builds from that file so that at least some assurance can be made
> > that it's build from the correct environment.
>
> Actually, Debian requires a binary upload of at least one architecture.
> Then the autobuilders build for all the other architectures.
>
> About once a year someone proposes source-only uploads. The argument
> against is that with a binary upload, you have at least some hope that
> the developer has installed and tested the package. With source-only
> uploads, there the temptation to make "just one little change" and
> upload without building and testing.
>
> Maintaining an auto-build system is non-trivial.
>
> Regards,
> Steve

Steve,

I can agree that maintaining an auto-build will drive you nuts. I maintain 
part of the one we have at our company.  (what do you mean it lost a file?)  
I know what had to be done at Mandrake both for new releases and for back 
ports.  Here though there is the "Apple Advantage" in that the environments 
are tightly controlled by Nokia.  All 770's match hardware.  No two x86 
systems are alike.  

On the binary vs source uploads I guess it's obvious where I stand.  I'm a 
lot more paranoid than I should be most likely.

James



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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 08:35:51 dave wrote:
> > It should stay online for days, not hours. Something is wrong with
> > your setup. I would guess that the AP is somehow broken regards to
> > WLAN Power Save Mode. Can you try with some other AP to see if it
> > helps? Also make sure that N800 isn't transmitting anything extra, for
> > example transmitting a packet every second would kill the battery
> > quite quickly.
> >
> > Alternatively you could use a wireless sniffer to take a dump of WLAN
> > level traffic and send it to me. I could take a look and see if
> > there's something strange.
> >
> > It's a shame that there are so many broken APs on the market. I see
> > lots of them when dealing with bug reports :( I guess WLAN Power Save
> > Mode was really rare earlier, but fortunately nowadays it's getting
> > more popular and AP manufactures have noticed the problem.
>
> hmmm. My N800 recently  began running the battery dry in only a half day or
> so; as you mention, it used to go days between charges. This began suddenly
> with no change in habits or new packages having been installed. Since I
> really only use the device at home and at work, I ruled out anything to do
> with the whether or not the APs support WLAN Power Save Mode. As I said, it
> all worked great until recently.
>
> It is frustrating. Even if I charge overnight, I'm sure to hear the N800's
> plaintive wail for the power adapter just after lunchtime. Could my battery
> simply be dying? Is there any way to check?
>
>
Thinking out load here. But I wonder if a phone store that sells Nokia phones 
would be able to test the battery?  

James
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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 05:02:26 Frederic Crozat wrote:

> Just curious : is the n800 really supposed to last "days" when connected
> via Wifi (with full WLAN Power Save mode enabled), without any
> disconnect timeout and anything doing network access on the wifi link ?
>
> When I check battery applet (which is really great btw), I'm never sure
> if the "in use" time is applicable when being idle AND wifi connected.
>
> I know I disable network auto-connect and set disconnect timeout to 5min
> because I had bad experience with first IT2007 version (before full WLAN
> Power Save mode gconf key were given here). Maybe I should try it
> again..

One note.  If you (like I) move around a lot, as in driving down the highway.  
Your poor IT can go nuts trying to find a connection. *grin*  When I first 
got my 800  I noticed that when I left work, and drove home down the freeway 
by the time I got home (1 hour later) my battery had dropped 50%  so I 
disable the auto connect and no problem.  

The 800 isn't too good at searches done at 80mph  

Other thing I learned.  Don't put it on phone autoconnect.  Kills your phone 
battery.

James



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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 19 October 2007 03:51:29 Marius Vollmer wrote:
> "ext Marius Gedminas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation
> > dialogs.
>
> Yeah, and there will be more in the future...  There should be at
> least one before starting the operation, and we can't get rid of the
> legal "Notice" dialog for non-certified software.

(misc grumbling about lawyers and baby boomers) *grin*
>
> When using the AM to install system software updates, there will be
> lots more: "please take a backup", "all applications will be closed,
> continue?", "device will reboot, continue?", "don't touch me while I
> do scary things to the kernel", maybe even more.  We should try to
> combine these messages.

As long as the message doesn't say "Do you really mean you really want to do 
what you just said you really wanted to do"  I can live with them.   Info is 
good,  however where you can the little "don't ask me again box" is good 
practice IMHO.

James


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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 18 October 2007 20:01:36 Steve Greenland wrote:
> According to James Sparenberg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > a.  open AM
> > b.  get asked if I want to update package lists.
> > c.  click to browse installable packages.
> > d.  wait for update packages (why it just did an update.)
>
> Actually, the "update" here is updating the soon-to-be-displayed list
> of uninstalled packages; it's not re-doing the download of the Packages
> files.
>
> Steve

I fully understand what it's doing  but not why it's doing it.  Since the 
act of doing the first update is the equivalent of "apt-get update"  However 
if you use Adept/Synaptic/dpkg etc the act of the update accumulates all of 
this information in one act.  

James
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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 18 October 2007 11:30:34 Marius Gedminas wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 04:48:35PM +, Steve Greenland wrote:

>
> My other pet peeve is that this encourages binary-only debs which you
> can't then fix/port to a different SDK version.
>
> I sincerely hope Maemo Extras rejects sourceless packages.
>
> Marius Gedminas

Marius, 

   I would hope that they reject binary packages period, in that like every 
distro I've worked with you submit a src (rpm deb tgz etc) and the distro 
builds from that file so that at least some assurance can be made that it's 
build from the correct environment.  

   You then have 3 levels of packages.  1. Nokia produced and vetted.  2.  
Packages created by "Authorized" developers (ones know and trusted by Nokia) 
aka Extra's then contrib.  Various users/packagers/developers not as well 
know can contribute src packages here for a contribs section.  This last 
section of course, having a much lower guarantee of functional quality. 

James
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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 18 October 2007 10:16:51 Marius Vollmer wrote:
> "ext Steve Greenland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > According to Marius Vollmer  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get?
> >> Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task
> >> done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and
> >> installed the packages?

The frustrations I have with AM are.

1.  the "update packages" event.  Every action requires that a full on rescan 
of the system be done.  Each one taking between 30 to 60 seconds to complete.

2.  Searches that return me to the wrong screen.  If for example I want to 
install pidgin.  I search for pidgin and rightfully get a number of packages 
(many I need to install some I don't want period) I have to do the following.

a.  open AM
b.  get asked if I want to update package lists.
c.  click to browse installable packages.
d.  wait for update packages (why it just did an update.)
c.  search for pidgin.
d.  chose to install 1st package.
e.  click yes I want to install
d.  Click yes I know it doesn't come from Nokia
e.  Click OK for the install
f.  package gets installed
g.  click for placement of icon in menu
h.  wait for update packages.
i.  search for pidgin.
j.  etc etc etc etc until all 6 or 7 packages are installed.

Now from a command line apt-cache search {app name) apt-get [list of packages] 
then open CP and move icon.  Equally as easy on my desktop is open  
Adept-Manager (kubuntu) search for app, click check boxes, OK dependencies if 
any and done.  In truth Adept Manager and synaptic are often easier than 
command line (even though I prefer command line.)

James
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Found out why BT sound is choppy.

[James Sparenberg]

Not sure where to go next on this.  (beyond bug filing) Kagu is definitely the 
culprit. in that something about updating the screen causes BT sound to cut 
out. If you shrink the screen and open for example the browser scrolling and 
surfing has no affect on sound.  But if you are doing anything with the kagu 
UI  sound cuts out.
BTW anyone gotten any of the other apps to play sound over BT?

James
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Re: maemo-users Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 12 October 2007 08:59:28 Drew Baker wrote:
> This is one thing I really like about my Zaurus 5500.  Granted it's
> dated now, but nice little reset button if need be.  I've had similar
> issues with my 770.  Sudo works well.
>
> >IMO, the N800 _REALLY_ needs:
>
> 1) a hardware reset button, probably next to the battery (so, it's
> almost as desperate a situation as pulling the battery, but you don't
> have to actually pull the battery).  Obviously this can't/wont be done
> for the N800, but maybe for the WiMax version, and/or the next
> generation IT.
>
> 2) a means of actually invoking the unix "reboot" command without having
> to break into root.  I can probably make "reboot" be setuid root, and
> add it to the status bar graph menu ... but I think that'd be a little
> too easy.  Maybe something you can invoke from the control panel
> application menu: "hard reboot now".
>

Be careful what you wish for.  Don't have my nokia in front of me but if you 
are at all VI savy there is a way.  (Cautions the usual caveats about how you 
can if you so desire really mess things up.)

cd /etc/ on the IT
vi the systemui.xml file

look for a small section that is currently commented out (using html 
commenting of  

Comment that section back in.  save the file and restart your IT.

Now when you short press the power button the menu will include Reboot and 
Soft Shutdown (suspend like the 770 did when you put the cover on.)

James
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Re: Improvements in the browser (was Re: 4.2007.38-2 available)

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 09 October 2007 01:32:01 Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> Il 5-10-2007 19:25, "Steve Yelvington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:
> > I thought the browser tab thing was an urban legend, but it turns out
> > they're there, and probably agnostic to the HTML engine.
> >
> > Last item in the dropdown menu is "Advanced,"where you choose the
> > browser engine, and among its (new?) entries is "View" with options for
> > tab, box and window. However, in tab mode the tabs are placed on the
> > left side of the screen, eating valuable layout space.
> >
> > There also is a "policy" choice that lets you control Javascript for
> > Google separately from the global settings.
>
> OOPS I've replied only to Steve Yelvington, here's it again:
>
> I confirm this, but I think that this menu was not intented to be
> "released" to the users. I believe it's an internal/testing menu entry
> that, somehow, appears when you flash the new firmware (probably if, in the
> process, you also restore the settings/data from a previous backup).
>
> In fact, the Tabs are, as you also noticed, very poorly implemented. Same
> for the remaining "views".

I agree on your analysis  however even though they weren't pretty they were so 
freaking useful it wasn't funny.  I rue the day I lost mine for sure.

My mission it seems to to figure out how to get them back ;)

James 

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Re: Improvements in the browser (was Re: 4.2007.38-2 available)

[James Sparenberg]

On Saturday 06 October 2007 06:46:08 Luca Olivetti wrote:
> El Sat, 6 Oct 2007 01:04:19 -0700
>
> James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> > On Friday 05 October 2007 12:35:08 Luca Olivetti wrote:
> > > El Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:25:54 -0400
> > >
> > > Steve Yelvington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> > > > I thought the browser tab thing was an urban legend, but it turns
> > > > out they're there, and probably agnostic to the HTML engine.
> > >
> > > Nope, the advanced menu option disappears as soon as you install
> > > microb.
> >
> > Luca interesting ... didn't on mine.
>
> Yes, I lost the option after installing microb, and according to
> internettsalettalk forums I'm not the only one. Now, if is there a way
> to get it back I'd be glad to try ;-)
>
> Bye


Yeah I ran into an "update" that actually regressed me.   Now working on the 
process of deletion to unfix the unwanted help.

James
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Re: Improvements in the browser (was Re: 4.2007.38-2 available)

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 05 October 2007 12:35:08 Luca Olivetti wrote:
> El Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:25:54 -0400
>
> Steve Yelvington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> > I thought the browser tab thing was an urban legend, but it turns out
> > they're there, and probably agnostic to the HTML engine.
>
> Nope, the advanced menu option disappears as soon as you install microb.

Luca interesting ... didn't on mine.  Also intresting is the greyed out engine 
choice for Webcore.

James
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 05 October 2007 12:04:16 Frédéric Crozat wrote:
> Le vendredi 05 octobre 2007 à 18:56 +0300, Marius Vollmer a écrit :
> > "ext James Sparenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > Marius, In reply to the space constraint and upgrade done to the
> > > entire OS.  This was first solved in URPMI for Mandrake around 8.1
> > > (Now called Mandriva) and AFAIK it has been ported into the
> > > dist-upgrade feature for dpkg/apt.
> >
> > I don't know what you are referring to excatly, but I too think that
> > there is no fundamental problem to be solved here.
> >
> > Apt doesn't do the trick of splitting the update into pieces so that
> > you don't need to download all package before unpacking the first one.
> > I think that in theory it should be possible to only download a
> > package immediately before it is unpacked and delete the archive file
> > afterwards again.
> >
> > This approach would make the update much less reliable, tho, since a
> > download failure can interrupt it.
>
> Well,  urpmi supports this, but it is really difficult to
> implement, mostly on big distributions where package names can change,
> packages conflicts, etc.. And it become even more difficult when you try
> to upgrade from two distro releases in the past to the current one. We
> usually need to implement some heuristic to handle such case and not
> fallback to "huge transaction which download more than 1GB of packages
> before starting upgrade". 
>
> I guess it will be easier for Maemo since the device has a small space
> capacity and less possible packages to install than a desktop distro.

Frederic if I'd known you were here I would have deferred to the more intimate 
knowledge.  Yes I never dared go more than one "release" level at a time. But 
more than once I used to across the country (in my case USA) to update a box 
without a problem.   Nice to see you again!

James
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Re: Improvements in the browser (was Re: 4.2007.38-2 available)

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 05 October 2007 10:25:54 Steve Yelvington wrote:
> I thought the browser tab thing was an urban legend, but it turns out
> they're there, and probably agnostic to the HTML engine.
>
> Last item in the dropdown menu is "Advanced,"where you choose the
> browser engine, and among its (new?) entries is "View" with options for
> tab, box and window. However, in tab mode the tabs are placed on the
> left side of the screen, eating valuable layout space.

Yes but next to the "globe" for your bookmarks there is now a new icon for 
showing/hiding the tab bar, you can pull it out when you need it (like to 
close a view) and hide ti when viewing the web page..

James

>
> There also is a "policy" choice that lets you control Javascript for
> Google separately from the global settings.
>
>
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Friday 05 October 2007 09:37:56 Acadia Secure Networks wrote:
> James,
>
> re:
> > PS  I'm finding a lot of things working much nicer in the new update
> > beyond the documented updates.  Like tabs in the browser!  Then again I'm
> > just glad I decided to wait recently.   I'd done a number of "fixes" that
> > I unfixed and I needed a clean install almost did it the day before the
> > release!  *whew*
>
> Tabs in the browser? Is that the Opera Browser or the Mozilla browser
> beta?  I seem to recall an earlier authoritative post in this thread
> that asserted that this firmware release was ONLY a bug fix release, not
> a new features release. Can someone from please state clearly what are
> the new features in this release if there are any?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> John Holmblad

Both actually Since it comes with Opera and you have to install microB.  Menu 
button => Advaced => View to see the 'changes"

James
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Tangent topic..... ARM CPU info

[James Sparenberg]

Multi core arm proc now out.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2917028234.html

Linux friendly Hypervisor on ARM multi core

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2917028234.html

ARM form Linux initiative.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8620895791.html


N1000 could be a real killer *grin*

James
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Re: problem after re-flash

[James Sparenberg]

On Thursday 04 October 2007 15:10:55 Luca Olivetti wrote:
> En/na James Sparenberg ha escrit:
> > Which brings up the question.  Where do I file this kind of bug?
> > James
>
> it's already filed, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2063
>
> Bye


Thanks!

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Re: OpenSSH

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 14:52:09 Gary Baribault wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>   I am trying to install OpenSSH after re-flashing the latest version of
> our OS. maemo.org has links to once click installs that no longer work
> .. Anyone have a recent link that works? I've done the google thing with
> no success..
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary Baribault
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http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free/o/openssh/

If you go to 

https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=330&release_id=832 for the project page 
they were kind enough to provide a link to the above.  I d/ld the debs ran 
dpkg -i and they all installed N/P  

James
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Re: problem after re-flash

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 12:28:23 Luca Olivetti wrote:
> El Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:00:31 -0700
>
> John Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> > I re-flashed my N800 last night, because it wouldn't boot (not sure
> > how/why that happened, it just did).  Today I was trying to install
> > various packages, including openssh.  But, when I try to install
> > openssh, it gets down to the last step and then says it can't find
> > the file.
> >
> > I looked in application manager's logs, and it says it's getting GPG
> > errors (typing, and not pasting, so please excuse errors here):
> >
> >
> > W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com bora Release: The
> > following signatures were invalid: BADSIG [some key stuff] Nokia
> > Internet Tablet Atomatic Signing Key <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org bora Release: The following
> > signatures were couldn't be verified because the public key is not
> > available: NO_PUBKEY [some key stuff]
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone have thoughts/ideas/information about what's going on and how
> > to fix it?
>
> I could install ssh, but that is the last package I could install. I
> cannot install python (missing libfii4) or the microb engine. Since I'm
> not the only one, while others had no problems installing those
> packages, I suspect a problem with the repositories, and I hope it gets
> fixed soon.

On the libfli4 issue.  Seems that this package is missing from  the pkg gz so 
dpkg/apt/application manager can't find it.  

I ran wget on this url 

http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/3.2/free/libf/libffi4/libffi4_4.1.0-1osso1_armel.deb

then did a dpkg -i libffi4_4.1.0-1osso1_armel.deb

from there I was able to install python etc without a problem.  

Which brings up the question.  Where do I file this kind of bug?  
James
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 08:12:02 Fred C wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:36:10 -0700
>
> Thomas Leavitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What I'm not understanding here is that the tablet is a debian Linux
> > system, in it's essence... what's the issue with just making the
> > updated packages available, for the power users and tweakers willing
> > to go through the work of a manual update?
>
> What I'm not understanding is the big rush to update for a few minor
> fixes, especially if there's the known potential of extra user overhead
> getting the update and apps all sorted out.   If it aint broke, ...

It was broke.  It tended to brick SD cards.  Want some?  They make fair guitar 
pics now.

>
> Or put another way, my Clinc's software runs over 1000 per year for
> updates and support.  A couple month's ago the released a major
> update/upgrade which I've still not installed.  It takes months to
> sort out the bugs in this sort of stuff, plus the staff has to be
> brought up to speed overnight.  So I'm sitting back and waiting for the
> dust to settle so when I do the install (10 stations), it's rock solid
> so I don't have to hassle of training the staff how do deal with a lot
> of kludge workarounds to get work done, or (worse case) data crash
> which would caase everything to come to a halt. I'm paying decent bucks
> (along with 3 other clinics) for this update 'service', which I'm
> choosing to go slow on.  Ditto for the megabuck software running my
> dental cad/cam system.

Wow I have the luxury of running 4 data centers that I watch update 
themselves.  Note, none of them are windows.  I don't have the luxury of 
waiting for security updates etc.  That would be for me, suicide.  

>
> It's laughable that a bunch of whiner techno geeks fully  expect their
> newly released, reasonably functional, internet tablet to be provided
> with instant FREE updates tto match their every whim.  As far as I can
> tell (by clinical software standards), the OS that most of us are
> currently using is really a modestly stable early beta version of the
> final stable OS.

This is linux.  That's how we work, release early and often.  No one is 
complaining about the idea of the fix.  Just the way in which updates are 
managed.  It's how we work.  We not only complain we also discuss and solve.  
The whining you so fondly mention is for us a part of the process.  
Communication is the key.  
>
>
> We're the guinea pigs of this project/product,
> complete with a  significant segment of this user population who insist
> on running on their damn noisey treadmill all night, who then
> spend their days complaining about all the work they 'have' to do at
> night. It's seriously funny stuff guys...

I stopped being a guinea ping in 1996 when I removed my last MS install and 
went Unix/Linux.   I'm not at all a guinea pig now.  I lost guinea pig status 
because  I chose to be a partner in the development of the products future.  
I've already seen a number of changes made just because of others who chose 
to join in on this effort.  (Note, I need to contribute more, I know).  Once 
is  a guinea pig only if you allow yourself to be experimented on.  One is 
never the guinea pig if you are helping to run the experiment.

James

PS  I'm finding a lot of things working much nicer in the new update 
beyond the documented updates.  Like tabs in the browser!  Then again I'm 
just glad I decided to wait recently.   I'd done a number of "fixes" that I 
unfixed and I needed a clean install almost did it the day before the 
release!  *whew*


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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 03:14:48 Marius Vollmer wrote:

>
> Likewise we can easily afford Debian style package management.  The
> one serious constraint we might run into is that there is not enough
> storage space to carry out an update of the whole OS.  But even that
> should not be that serious happen since even on the tablets, the OS
> itself is almost always small compared to the available storage (100
> to 150 MiB compared to a couple of GiBs).
>


Marius,  In reply to the space constraint and upgrade done to the entire OS.  
This was first solved in URPMI for Mandrake around 8.1 (Now called Mandriva) 
and AFAIK it has been ported into the dist-upgrade feature for dpkg/apt.  

One thing that would help IMHO is to break out the debs for the scratchbox 
environment away from the 'user' repository.  That way the temptation to 
install would not exist.  BUT they are still accessable by other means 

Synaptic will run on the Nokia if you need a gui.  Heck I've got in on my 
blackdog and that was even more constrained than the Nokia is.

James
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 02 October 2007 19:03:56 Brad Midgley wrote:
> guys
>
> It takes longer to read this thread than it does to reinstall my apps.
> At least it's improving... I used to have to restore sources.list
> too...
>
> brad

Ya don't have to read every post every time ya know *cheesy grin* 

James
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 02 October 2007 18:45:59 Fred C wrote:
> I don't consider my n800 a toy.  I've been in and out of computers and
> prrogramming since 1968.  The N800 is a new device of extremely
> limited power, but very nice utility, if used within reasonable
> limits.
>
> Those expecting more need a reality check if they expect to push the
> envelope of a small handheld device without putting in a
> significant amount of effort AND time negotiating the back and
> forth world of fringe.
>
> Been there, done that over twenty years ago, and still doing it, only I
> carefully pick my battles. The N800 ain't one of those battles -- for
> me.  I use it to be able to reply to this email while hanging out in my
> kitchen while my dinner is nuked, amongst it's other uses.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:04:42 -0400
>
> Gary Baribault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yep, that's exactly what I mean, some people have put down 430$ (in
> > Canada) for a nice toy, and they can flash and restore in 20 minutes,
> > but most people (I think, and I may be wrong) have put down 430$ for a
> > fully customised device .. I'm not looking to be skewing information,
> > if i'm wrong, then I'm wrong, no prob, then Nokia is right!
> >
> >
> > Gary Baribault
> > Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > GPG Key: 0x4346F013
> > GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> I'm sure that some of the N800 owners can backup/flash/restore in
> > >> 20 minutes, but I would really be curious how many people take
> > >> over 90 minutes.
> > >
> > >   If you limit your curiosity to those over 90 minutes, you'll
> > > purposefully skew the results, which really isn't appropriate.
> > >
> > >   I'm a 20 minute flash and restore kind of guy, back in August
> > > when I got the unit back from warranty service due to it's brick
> > > like behavior.  Most of that time was spent watching TV while the
> > > unit and laptop did their work.
> > >
> > >   However, it's possible that it's easy and short for me because
> > > I've kept things relatively simple on my N800 with a couple games,
> > > Gizmo Project, Quiver photo viewer and Claws mail being just about
> > > the only additions.  I've configured about 20 RSS feeds and 4
> > > weather stations. I've tested a fair amount of other stuff from
> > > Maemo, but then when I find it of limited value or unfunctional, I
> > > remove it to keep the clutter down.   It seems to speed boot up
> > > keeping things simple.  I gather it may also help the restore
> > > process...
> > >
> > >I guess the fine print is I've only recently started messing
> > > around getting Claws Mail up to full speed with filters and stuff,
> > > so it might be possible that I might have to spend some time
> > > fussing with restoring some Claws settings there from a restore,
> > > but then again, perhaps not.

The only thing I "question" (and I use that term loosly) is calling it 
underpowered.  I tend to view it as if I am saying. "What could I do on a 
desktop in 1999?"  This little handheld is as powerful as my 300Mhz K-6 was 
with more storage room (I only had a 6G drive on that box.) as such no.  I 
don't expect 3D graphics or high end gaming.  But if I could do it on that 
box back then, I can surely do it here and now.  Baring of course instruction 
set differences.

When looked at in that light.  It's really awsome how much power is in my 
hand.  

James

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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 02 October 2007 14:43:34 Gary Baribault wrote:
> I'm sure that some of the N800 owners can backup/flash/restore in 20
> minutes, but I would really be curious how many people take over 90
> minutes. I'm near there and have only had the toy for about 20 days. By
> the time I'm finished customizing the application load, configurations,
> ssh keys, and assorted other things, I will be well over that 90
> minutes, and I'm sure many other owners are even more customized!
>
> Anyone care to host a survey of all applications that we load and how
> much time it takes to reflash/customize/restore? (Not to mention re-test
> the restore!)
>
>
> Gary Baribault
> Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> GPG Key: 0x4346F013
> GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013
>
> Jac Kersing wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Michael Wiktowy wrote:
> >> Reality is that they are much closer to the resource constrains of a
> >> cell phone and I don't know of a single cell phone that doesn't just
> >> wipe everything that isn't on the SIM or external memory card on a
> >> firmware update ...
> >
> > Sorry, not true. All (recent) S60 devices are firmware upgradable, backup
> > before, flash new firmware, restore and all applications are available.
> > (Somehow they forget to save/restore the bluetooth pairing information,
> > but everything works just fine)
> >
> >> All that being said, I am not sure how many apps you have but reloading
> >> my IT after a firmware update has never taken me 2-4 hours.
> >
> > Having to reinstall is a pain. Enabling blue pill mode for some packages.
> > Resetting the root password after install of sshd. It is not cool to have
> > to do every OS upgrade.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jac

Actually I've found that doing it the Linux way for the rebuild helps  
however it still takes more than 6 hours of my time to get it all back 
together.  A tone of small tweaks etc.  Where some of the problem lies is 
that Nokia is a phone company, hardware wise.  I think a lot of things (like 
users wanting to keep the older version more than a year).  Really caught 
them off guard.  

Again though if this is a kernel level patch couldn't this be rolled into a 
kernel flash?  Also if it is a kernel patch.  Is the source up yet (need to 
get mppe in)

James
 
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Re: 4.2007.38-2 available

[James Sparenberg]

On Tuesday 02 October 2007 12:19:49 Andrew Flegg wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Acadia Secure Networks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Also it would be helpful if Nokia would clearly specify ALL of the
> > changes in this release. Is there any reason not to?
>
> The fact that the initial digit (i.e. the revision number) is the same
> suggests that the changes are minor. How do you know that it's *not*
> just the SDHC card fix?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew


If it is just the SDHC card fix, and that would be kernel level.  Could a 
Kernel image accomplish the same thing?

James
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Re: Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 26 September 2007 10:57:03 Simon Pickering wrote:
> >> Do you know if the headsets have some priority between the devices, so
> >> that I will hear the person calling in my headphones and not the music,
> >> or will I hear both?
> >>
> >> > I think you need to look for the feature known as "multipoint". This
> >> > allows the headphones to pair and be actively connected to two devices
> >> > at the same time - your N800/mp3 player and your phone. These are a
> >> > bit more expensive than the normal Bluetooth stereo headphones, which
> >> > can only connect with one device at a time.
> >
> > The Jabra bt620 headphones I have work like you are asking.  I can pair
> > with both my nokia and my cell phone at the same time.  The phone takes
> > priority when a call comes in, then I drop back to music.
> >
> > Some phones ring only in the headphone, mine (nokia 6103) rings both
> > places in
> > case I am headphone enabled but not stuck in my ear.
>
> I've never used one of these multipoint headsets so see the reply
> above. I imagine it may also be possible with some headsets that you
> need to click a button to confirm that you want to take the call.
>
> Does the music pause while you're on the call? Again this would be
> implementation dependent (implementation of the headset) but should
> work as these a2dp headsets support AVRCP too (Audio/Video Remote
> Control Profile).
>
> With that said, I'm not sure whether the N800's a2dp implementation
> implements/supports AVRCP so it may not pause the music. Anyone noticed?
>
>
> Simon

It mutes the sound but I'm not seeing that it pauses the sound.  I hear 
the "ring" of the phone ... click to p/u and I hear the call not the music.  
Then when I terminate the call music is back.  So far haven't run a real call 
of any length.   

AVRCP does work otherwise. FF volume controls etc are all there. 


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Re: Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 26 September 2007 06:01:38 Brad Midgley wrote:
> James
>
> > Severe drop out problem.
> > Almost as if the dang thing was constantly buffering.
>
> it helped in at least one case to make the n800 prefer to be bluetooth
> master. in hcid.conf:
>
> lm accept,master;
> lp hold,sniff,park;
>
> let us know if that impacts the quality.
>
> Brad

Brad,

   This really seemed to work.. finally.  It was a bit of a stutter start.  
But now I've got it up.  Also seems to be affected by how these headphones 
are 'multi-ipoint' (if I have the term correct) and can connect to both phone 
and Nokia at the same time.  Need to read up on BT and the rswitch feature it 
seems.  

  At this point I would say however that it's a 10 on a 10 scale.  I also can 
see how the input feed to the BT headphones works essentially it seems that 
alsa output is redirected to a2dpd.  

  Lots of thoughts to play with.  Oh and on the battery front.  Wanna watch it 
really drain.  Try being ssh'd in (wifi) and BT connected at the same time!  

  Additional info for others out there the AVRCP (The protocol that allows you 
to remote control software over BT) seems to all function as it's supposed to 
using the controls on my headphones, and doing the the tap,press, hold tongue 
left then right dance I can skip songs, raise and lower volume etc.  

James


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Re: Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 26 September 2007 02:38:11 Lars Persson Fink wrote:
> Thanks Simon,
>
> Do you know if the headsets have some priority between the devices, so
> that I will hear the person calling in my headphones and not the music,
> or will I hear both?
>
> Best regards,
> Lars Persson Fink
>
> ons 2007-09-26 klockan 10:15 +0100 skrev Simon Pickering:
> > > I would like to listen to music on my N800 using my phones headset and
> > > when the phone rings it interrupts my music and I can take the phone
> > > call.
> >
> > I think you need to look for the feature known as "multipoint". This
> > allows the headphones to pair and be actively connected to two devices
> > at the same time - your N800/mp3 player and your phone. These are a bit
> > more expensive than the normal Bluetooth stereo headphones, which can
> > only connect with one device at a time.
> >
> >
> > Simon

Simon,

The Jabra bt620 headphones I have work like you are asking.  I can pair with 
both my nokia and my cell phone at the same time.  The phone takes priority 
when a call comes in, then I drop back to music.  

Some phones ring only in the headphone, mine (nokia 6103) rings both places in 
case I am headphone enabled but not stuck in my ear.

James


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Re: Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 26 September 2007 04:54:17 Berhan SOYLU wrote:
> James;
> Thanks for your funny explanation :)
>
> I'm using Nokia e60 that I think its sound quality is one of the best. I
> speak nearly 30 mins, when I hold phone in my right hand, right side of my
> brain afflicts, and vice versa... There is no headache with head set.. When
> I argue with my girlfriend on the phone, i feel all off my brain is gonna
> explode :)
>
> Berhan..

Wait until you are talking to your wife!  (as in girlfriend becomes wife!)  
But I digress.  

Does anyone know of a utility I can use to monitor the output levels of the BT 
radio?  Not for headache study but for looking into the dropouts.  

James

>
> On 9/26/07, James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Berhan SOYLU wrote:
> > > One of my friends sad to me who is a Electronics and Communications
> > > Engineer.
> > > I googled..
> > > According to SAR limit it is harmful for brain. But governments do not
> > > allow illegal SAR limits to produce.
> > >
> > > i.e
> >
> > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2005/tc20050427_5651.ht
> >m
> >
> > > I am confused to believe my engineer friend or the businessweek...
> > > Real world have lots of lies for consumption maddness... May be this
> > > may have been a lie, not harmfull for brain.
> >
> > Risk is dependent on exposure level.  The more power involved, the
> > greater the risk.  An excellent comparison is microwave ovens vs WiFi or
> > Bluetooth.  The power levels used in the ovens are without a doubt
> > harmful.  The levels in WiFi and Bluetooth are below what's considered
> > safe.  Please remember you can never prove anything is safe.  You can
> > only fail to show risk.  Also, the risk from microwaves is not cancer,
> > as that is non-ionizing radiation, unlike ultraviolet and X-ray
> > radiation. There may be problems caused by heating etc.
> >
> > > For instance they say the cellular phone is not harmful but when I
> > > speak to much with mobile phone, there comes a headache...
> >
> > That may be due to who you're talking to.  ;-)
> > Actually, some phones have very poor audio quality, which may trigger
> > headaches.
> >
> > --
> > Use OpenOffice.org 
> > ___
> > maemo-users mailing list
> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users



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Re: Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

On Wednesday 26 September 2007 00:00:07 Berhan SOYLU wrote:
> Another Cons: Bluetooth fries the brain, its very very harmful for the
> health... And needs more energy than wi-fi that means less stand-by time..

Conjecture on the frying of brains.  Largely as reliable as the word organic 
on the side of something I buy in the store.  (Define Organic.  Carbon based.  
All food consumable by humans is carbon based.)

On the second.  Yes when I'm using the n800 it does last less time than when 
I'm not using it.  (bluetooth VS standby.)  However WiFi phones don't exist. 

Still need to work on the dropouts though.

James

>
> On 9/26/07, James Sparenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > OK,
> >
> >Got them in today.  One set Jabra stereo headphones.  Installed a2dp.
> > Installed kagu.  Have music!
> >
> > Pros:  No wires! works with phone and Nokia at the same time.  Did I
> > mention
> > no wires.
> >
> > Cons:  Until I figure out out to start things from the command line
> > routing
> > sound to a2dp kagu is the only app that works.  Severe drop out problem.
> > Almost as if the dang thing was constantly buffering.  Not yet sure of
> > what
> > the best way to trace it all out is.  Working on that one.
> >
> > Right now.. I'd give it a 3 on as scale of 10 (mostly due to the
> > dropouts) with visible upward motion possible.
> >
> > James
> > ___
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> > maemo-users@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users



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Bluetooth headphones and mp3's

[James Sparenberg]

OK, 

   Got them in today.  One set Jabra stereo headphones.  Installed a2dp.  
Installed kagu.  Have music!  

Pros:  No wires! works with phone and Nokia at the same time.  Did I mention 
no wires.

Cons:  Until I figure out out to start things from the command line routing 
sound to a2dp kagu is the only app that works.  Severe drop out problem.  
Almost as if the dang thing was constantly buffering.  Not yet sure of what 
the best way to trace it all out is.  Working on that one.  

Right now.. I'd give it a 3 on as scale of 10 (mostly due to the dropouts)  
with visible upward motion possible.

James
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