Re: iPad
The thing is, Maemo is only necessary on small devices with limited screen real estate and non-X86-compatible processors. In a tablet of the iPad's size, there's no reason not to use an Atom and full-blown desktop Linux. Mark On Jan 28, 2010 6:51 AM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Thursday 28 January 2010 11:53:31 Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: The Macbook Air ? if you own it, you... They still could have opted for a Macbook Air variant with a swivel screen. Covers everything the iPad does but retains the abilities of a full blown notebook. But then again, with the Apple price premium, that would cost an arm and a leg, so I guess this was the compromise to fill the gap between the iPod Touch and the MacBooks... We'll see in time if it comes across as a best or worst of both worlds :) I still think a Maemo tablet would have a much bigger appeal to me (where easy porting of desktop apps to it would really be a killer feature) than this, regardless of Nokia's current (non-)stance on tablets :) Regards, Attila ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Thursday 28 January 2010 16:36:16 Mark wrote: The thing is, Maemo is only necessary on small devices with limited screen real estate and non-X86-compatible processors. In a tablet of the iPad's size, there's no reason not to use an Atom and full-blown desktop Linux. Mark Finger based keyboardless input. That killed full-blown desktop Linux and apps right there. In fact, that is one of , if not the most important reason why the original TabletPC was a flop. I don't see any rationale in (current-gen) embedded X86 if you want linux on it, either, but that's just me (ARM is cheaper, is far more power efficient, allows always-on, and, with A9-MPcores, *at least* on par performance-wise). Regards, Attila Huh? Desktop Linux (Ubuntu/kUbuntu, anyway) has a built-in onscreen keyboard, and all you need is a touchscreen for finger based keyboardless input. Many touchscreen hardware implementations work just fine with generic mouse drivers. There are exactly *no* hurdles for keyboardless input on desktop Linux. Multitouch is only a driver away; it's hardly a big deal at this point. I personally don't like multitouch anyway, it's just more opportunities for accidental incorrect input. Using full-blown desktop Linux on x86 processors solves all kinds of problems: all applications are available and usable without even the most elementary porting or conversion, people can use almost any OS they wish, etc. And the gap in power efficiency between the Atom and ARM is rapidly dwindling. Instead of increasing the speed and raw power, Intel is increasing the power efficiency with every iteration. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Kate Alhola kate.alh...@nokia.com wrote: ext Attila Csipa wrote: On Thursday 28 January 2010 16:36:16 Mark wrote: The thing is, Maemo is only necessary on small devices with limited screen real estate and non-X86-compatible processors. In a tablet of the iPad's size, there's no reason not to use an Atom and full-blown desktop Linux. Mark Finger based keyboardless input. That killed full-blown desktop Linux and apps right there. In fact, that is one of , if not the most important reason why the original TabletPC was a flop. I don't see any rationale in (current-gen) embedded X86 if you want linux on it, either, but that's just me (ARM is cheaper, is far more power efficient, allows always-on, and, with A9-MPcores, *at least* on par performance-wise). I agree, the thing that has been reason why no tablet-PC has ever made any success was that they always were running desktop operating system, mostly Windows from original manufacturer. I had my first tablet PC, Dialogue Flybook several years ago. It came with Windows and of course I installed Linux to it immediately. Flybook was with touch screen twist display so that it was possible to twist as tablet. With desktop OS, stylus is just mouse replacement and not even good on that. Total use experience was nonexistent and device become just mini laptop To be usable as tablet, all UI need to be redesigned to be usable with finger. Maemo 5 is good example of excellent finger optimized UI. I have not used stylus at all. It is no so much issue of screen real estate but how UI elements are designed. Many things work different way like no scroll bars but scrolling from content pane, UI elements must be enough large for finger, there is no right click, no altctrlclick etc It is not just issue of virtual keyboard. Taking desktop applications and desktop OS, you wont get any good user experience, just an other laptop where stylus is needed to be mouse replacement and user experience is worse than normal laptop. You will get lot of application with as bad uer experience. Kate Fine, put a customized UI on top, but most if not all of that could be solved with only a custom touchscreen driver, just like all the fancy things you can do with Logitech's mouse/trackball drivers (not that I ever install them any more). But it's VERY important to keep the underlying OS a full desktop version, complete with *all* the apps in the standard repositories with no porting necessary. Anything else will result in a massive fail. That's Maemo's #1 failing: there are too many little details required when porting, standard repositories do NOT work, and the app base just isn't there. The Nokia ITs have been out far longer than even the iPhone, and yet the apps number in the few hundreds, compared with 100,000 iPhone apps and over 10,000 for Android even though it is by far the youngest. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: iPad
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Alberto Garcia agar...@igalia.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:27:18AM -0700, Mark wrote: But it's VERY important to keep the underlying OS a full desktop version, complete with *all* the apps in the standard repositories with no porting necessary. Anything else will result in a massive fail. That's Maemo's #1 failing: there are too many little details required when porting, standard repositories do NOT work, and the app base just isn't there. The Nokia ITs have been out far longer than even the iPhone, and yet the apps number in the few hundreds, compared with 100,000 iPhone apps and over 10,000 for Android even though it is by far the youngest. That's contradictory to say the least. Many desktop apps could be ported to the Internet Tablets with little effort. That's a lie. If it were that easy, there would be thousands of Maemo apps. The dependencies alone are a nightmare, nevermind the hardware limitations. When you're dealing with an extremely stripped-down OS, everything becomes much more difficult. However iPhone apps were written specifically for the device from scratch. IMHO Kate's comment is completely right. Berto Yeah, that's why *everybody* knows what an iPhone/iPod is, but *nobody* on the street has ever heard of Maemo or Nokia Internet Tablets (or the N900)... I give up. If you're that determined to fail, be my guest. Meanwhile, my Nexus One does everything I hoped, right out of the box. I can open Word and Excel documents, (and with a $15.00 upgrade I can now create and edit them as well as PDFs and powerpoints). The navigation is far better than any standalone GPSr I've tried, never mind the joke that Nokia is now providing free. The PIM features work better than anything else I've ever seen or used. In short, it's way beyond anything I ever thought possible, given my experience with *any* other OS or hardware. I was going to post an objective comparison table with the iPhone 3GS, N900, Nexus One, and Droid, but now I don't see the point. Facts don't seem to be important to you people. Goodbye and good riddance. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
iPad
The Apple iPad: Yawn... a huge iPod Touch/iPhone that can't possibly fit in anyone's pocket. Really? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: iPad
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Brad Midgley bmidg...@gmail.com wrote: Mark The Apple iPad: Yawn... a huge iPod Touch/iPhone that can't possibly fit in anyone's pocket. Really? It should set a decent baseline for a good looking tablet with nice battery life. We know android and maemo could move into this space and deliver a great experience with something that is more generally useful than iPad (multitasking apps, background processes, no need to jailbreak, usb host, etc.) -- Brad Midgley Nobody has yet been able to successfully market anything with that form factor. They've been trying for many years now. The problem is that it's _far_ too much of a compromise; they don't have the power of a laptop (or even a netbook), and they don't have the portability of a smartphone. Battery life is far from the most crucial issue. It's just never going to happen. Sure, just because it's an Apple there are a lot of fanboys who will buy it initially, but it will never have the compelling attraction of the iPhone in the overall market. So _let_ apple dominate a market that nobody wants, and let Maemo and Android concentrate on what they do well, not a market that will never be very profitable. ...Although there was one similar product at CES that shows a little promise: stuff a full netbook into a keyboardless tablet form factor, then give it a clamshell housing with keyboard that turns it into an actual netbook. Then if you _really_ only need the tablet form factor for a given situation that's all you would have to take, but if you need to actually type and/or have a full netbook you can have that too. I guess someone could come up with an aftermarket product that would do the same thing for the iPad, except it would still be crippled by its smartphone-equivalent innards and couldn't compete with the real thing. I can't imagine that there will be a huge market for that either, but it seems more realistic than the iPad alone to me. (I realize that the Apple bluetooth keyboards are very svelte and usable, but transporting separate pieces is always a hassle, not to mention having to replace or recharge a second set of batteries.) IMO the upcoming crop of slim netbooks with convertible touchscreens have a much better chance of success. They aren't giving up anything while actually adding functionality/usability. Whatever feel free to pursue the cumbersome tablet market, but I think it's better to master the current project before striking out in a new direction. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
2010/1/5 Kimmo Hämäläinen kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com: Hi, On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 18:36 +0100, ext Alessio Stella wrote: I tried N900 at a Nokia Point and I found a possible bug (resellers solved it by switching off and on the device): I opened on the top left the page with all main applications icons then I clicked to the right bottom Other (that was Altre in Italian but i guess it's other or Other Applications in English) which opened a second page of scrollable icons (like Chess for instance..) then i played a little around and closed windows and went back to the page with a second list of icons and I found out that this second list of icons was on top of the first list, causing an annoying justapposition where the first icons were not clicckable, and we couldn't find a way to solve it except switching off the devic This is one of our oldest bugs, several months old. The reasons why it's not fixed is that it hasn't been systematically reproducable and so the fixes have been verified just because it happens so rarely. Some of these fixes might help to your case, but we still don't know if the problem is completely fixed. However, the problem will become unrelevant at some point because the second level is being removed from the UI. -Kimmo Beautiful. :-/ The solution to a bug is to just remove the feature involved. As if no one will miss the feature... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Johas jo...@gawab.com wrote: Am Dienstag 05 Januar 2010 17:34:53 schrieb Mark: Beautiful. :-/ The solution to a bug is to just remove the feature involved. As if no one will miss the feature... Mark The not configurable Symbian-like application menu is certainly not one of maemo's features, and replacing the annoying second level by a better usable menu solution is one of the bugfixes I am eagerly waiting for. So it is more the other way around... ;) Johas Oh... so it's just another case of Nokia's OS (never mind the shipped apps) not being ready for release, well after the device has started shipping to clueless consumers... Yeah, that's better :-( But the Nexus One is shipping today. Sayonara, Nokia!! http://www.google.com/phone Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andre Klapper aklap...@openismus.com wrote: Am Dienstag 05 Januar 2010 17:34:53 schrieb Mark: Beautiful. :-/ The solution to a bug is to just remove the feature involved. As if no one will miss the feature... Many people don't understand why there is a second application menu level instead of just scrolling down in the first one. Me neither. Enjoy being probably the only person missing it. Because some people appreciate organization more than others. However, since it apparently isn't configurable, that makes the point moot. Maemo4 has a second level in the application menus and it works beautifully. I very much prefer two levels of menu over having to scroll for days to find the app I want. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Timo Pelkonen pelt...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, why are you in this mailing list anyway? I have seen only _very_ negative comments from you. Most of them inappropiate... Because I keep hoping that Nokia is going to wake up and do the right thing, and that I'll finally actually be able to use my tablet the way they said it could be used. After two years of frustration following a few days of initial excitement, I'm giving up once and for all. There is now concrete proof that I've been right all along, and that I have *NOT* been asking too much. Is there a way to ignore people within maemo mailing lists? Ossipena / Timo Elementary. Have the messages sent to your regular email and create a filter. (Further proof that you people aren't very bright...) But you won't have to bother on my account, because I just ordered a Nexus One and will be leaving this mailing list forever in short order. Sayonara suckers! Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Aldon Hynes aldon.hy...@orient-lodge.com wrote: I'm with Timo on this. If you don't like the N900, there is a better site to be posting on. It is called eBay. When you post your N900 there, let us know, some of us might respond more favorably there. Aldon I wasn't stupid enough to buy an N900 after being ripped off with my N800. The N800 will get thrown in a drawer tomorrow when my Nexus One arrives. I'll probably tinker with it now and then, but since the only thing it does really well is browse the Web, I'm not going to put any more major effort into it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Henrik Madsen h...@imm.dtu.dk wrote: Dear Timo, As ordinary users of the N900/N810 systems we are also woundering what the purpose of all Marks non-appropriate and very negative comments are. Looks mostly like he is hirred by another company just to spread negative (and wrong) impressions about the Maemo development etc. BR Henrik The purpose - as I've stated over and over again - is to wake Nokia up and get then moving in the right direction. But don't worry, that's clearly a lost cause and I'm jumping ship. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Matan Ziv-Av ma...@svgalib.org wrote: On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, Mark wrote: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andre Klapper aklap...@openismus.com wrote: Am Dienstag 05 Januar 2010 17:34:53 schrieb Mark: Beautiful. :-/ The solution to a bug is to just remove the feature involved. As if no one will miss the feature... Many people don't understand why there is a second application menu level instead of just scrolling down in the first one. Me neither. Enjoy being probably the only person missing it. Because some people appreciate organization more than others. However, since it apparently isn't configurable, that makes the point moot. It is about as configurable as can be, only not using a GUI. See here for details: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=442281postcount=5 -- Matan. Oh, yeah, that's really user-friendly. :-( I've pulled my hair out for the last time trying to make sense of config files that are hundreds of lines long and poorly commented/documented. Navit has so much potential, but the configuration is worse than pulling teeth, and inexplicable gaping holes in the map data make it all but useless. Wake up, people! GUI config just isn't that hard, especially when compared to manually editing config files, and it also prevents a single mistyped character from screwing everything up. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: possible bug in N900 Maemo 5 desktop ??
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Curious. I like my N800 since I finally got everything I wanted running. However, the N900 clearly has some way to go before it would interest me. I'm unclear why it was necessary to break so much that was working in OS2008 in order to make Maemo5, although I'm sure the developers had their reasons. Maemo5 is clearly an experimental platform, whereas OS2008 is (now) a usable tool -- in its turn the N800 platform was to some extent an experiment when it came out. Maemo5 does not seem to have learned as much from the N800 experience, though, which is a pity. Maybe in a few years I'll be able to afford an N900... ///Peter Maemo4 is fine as long as you don't want to do anything serious or are capable of writing your own apps. All of the apps that work really well are things that you can do with pretty much *any* device (games and other fluff). The more critical apps have too many bugs and miss too much functionality; e.g. mapping apps don't navigate (contrary to one of the main selling points of the NITs), PIMs don't import/export worth a flip and/or don't support enough fields (vCard just doesn't cut it), getting root access (which is critical in any *nix system) is a PITA and never works the same way twice (meaning getting it to work again after an OS reflash -- which is periodically mandatory), and on and on. The truth is that they never really finished OS2008 before giving up on it completely and concentrating on Maemo5. Mer *might* be an option someday if it doesn't fragment and get abandoned like most other such projects. With so many more interesting devices coming along, I'm not holding my breath. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: newbie question: out of space on n810
On 1/3/10, ScottW sc...@sw41.com wrote: I am having issues with my n810: - can not update the weather - can not update maemo mapper maps - open application manager and it is blank, no catalogs showing at all - can not add bookmarks The bookmark told me it was out of space and I need to make more room. What gui application is good for figuring out where I am out of space, what I can delete, and have it delete it for me? I am not good at navigating the command line yet (big fingers on small keyboard) nor do I understand the linux folder structure to know what can be deleted safely. Thanks in advance! Happy New Year to all!! Diskusage is great for showing you what space you're using, where it is and how the partitions are mounted. As for file management, emelFM2 is fifty times better than the default file manager and lets you see and work with the entire file system, not just the removable card(s) and a few folders in your home directory. Just be careful... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: cannot download LCARS themes
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Mark wrote: [...] Actually, it wasn't LCARS that was broken, it was GPE that disregarded some of the system colors. Thank you for the correction. I tried for nearly a year to get any kind of response from either author, but got nothing, so I assumed neither of them was interested in making it all work. (Sometimes it's better just to lash out with an accusation, and hope that someone in the know will come back with a correction :-) Have the GPE people fixed this? Or do they still regard themselves as right and everyone else as wrong? If you tried any of the other dark themes, they all had the same issue. The problem comes from apps observing the system font colors but disregarding all the other system colors, specifically backgrounds. If those apps would at least let you pick your own colors, it would help. It sounds as if they need this explaining to them. ///Peter That particular issue probably just wasn't on their radar. I don't think the dark themes were even available when they were working on their apps. Plus, they had bigger fish to fry - GPE are supposedly working on better import/export, which is a much more important issue IMO. While colors ought to be easy to fix, major functionality issues outweigh minor cosmetic issues. Although I love the LCARS themes, ultimately I got a little tired of them anyway, and I found a darkish theme that uses dark fonts and doesn't interfere with gpe or maemoweather. Developers really ought to consider that many people's portable device use cases include situations where dark themes are very useful and appropriate and all apps should support _all_ the system colors _all the time_. But if they're not going to do that then they should ignore _all_ the system colors so readability doesn't suffer from themes other than the default. That's far from ideal, but far better than partial support. Dark themes are good for use in vehicles at night (so as not to destroy one's night vision or disturb others) and actually can make text easier to read in really bright situations (like sunlight) when the screen is not transflective (N770/800). Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: cannot download LCARS themes
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Timo Pelkonen wrote: 2009/12/24 Kevin Kempter ke...@kevinkempterllc.com mailto:ke...@kevinkempterllc.com Hi All; I just got a new N900 - it rocks. However I cannot download any of the lcars theme's. On my N900, I browse to maemo.org http://maemo.org then select Downloads and I select OS2008. In the Desktop Environment category I find the lcars-complete and click on it's download link. my device then automatically takes me to the app manager, then I see a 'preparing for installation message', then after that's done I see this message: Unable to download 'lcars-complete' Application package not found. I've tried downloading the file and browsing to it via the file manager and I get the same results. Same thing happens for all the start trek themes Anyone know how to fix this? Thanks in advance Well, first thing could be that you don't try to install packages that belong to older OS to your device? OS2008 is an os that can be found in n8xx models, n900 has maemo5. And secondly, the LCARS themes were broken and never fixed, in respect of colour compatibility with other apps for OS2008 such as the GPE desktop stuff. Which is a great pity, as otherwise they were quite good. ///Peter Actually, it wasn't LCARS that was broken, it was GPE that disregarded some of the system colors. If you tried any of the other dark themes, they all had the same issue. The problem comes from apps observing the system font colors but disregarding all the other system colors, specifically backgrounds. If those apps would at least let you pick your own colors, it would help. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
how to get bluetooth pc105 keyboards to work with N900
In case anybody is interested, I figured out how to get bluetooth keyboards to work with the N900. I.e. how to get the pc105 xkb layout. First, copy the /usr/share/X11/xkb/ directory from chinook to the N900. (I put it in /usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook/. Be careful not to overwrite /usr/share/X11/xkb/.) Then do: % setxkbmap -device 4 -I -I/usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook -rules base -model pc105 -layout us It may take a little while for it to take effect. And you may need to coax it a bit by typing a bit on the internal keyboard after doing the setxkbmap. You need to redo the setxkbmap after each reboot. So far I only tried this with the iGo Stowaway. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
bluetooth keyboards and N900
As is now well known, the N900 removed many layouts, including pc105, from the xkb system. See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6685 This prevents using bluetooth keyboards. Has anybody found a workaround? I know that the eventual plan, as per the above, is to merge the Nokia-specific layouts with the full set of upstream layouts. But meanwhile, I'd like to get just pc105 with us layout working. I'm willing to try experimenting if someone can give me some pointers as to what are the minimal set of changes necessary just to get an iGo Stowaway or Freedom Universal working. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: email use cases on N900
Also, I have all email forked to both my desktop and N900 (with procmail). I usually read on my desktop and only read on my N900 when away from my desktop. But if I don't clean out the inbox, email can accumulate. After a few days I can get several hundre emails. As I have read them all on my desktop, I want to quickly discard them on my N900. On Chinook, I could easily select all email and click delete. I see no such easy way on Maemo5. Is there an easy way that I am missing? The lack of such a capability would destroy my use case. If you tap the title bar in the application, you will trigger the main menu. There is a Delete option there. If you choose it, you can click on all of the emails you want to delete (multi-select) from the current folder and then tap the Delete button at the top of the screen. On chinook there was a menu item Mark All. (I could mark all and then unmark the few messages that I wanted to keep, if any). Here it seems that I have to click on each message to select it. That can be tedious if there are hundreds. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: X Server Keyboard not working
I can't be certain but my guess is that this is the the X input focus issue. Apparently, Nokia changed the window manager in maemo5 so that it doesn't set input focus on windows as they are exposed. So that apps need to call XSetInputFocus() if they want input focus. Apparently most window managers don't exhibit this behavior and many apps were written assuming that they did not need to call XSetInputFocus(). There is some debate as to what the spec requires. But in any case many apps, such as emacs, and apparently also kmail, don't work with the maemo5 window manager, even when run remotely. There have been many threads on this, among them see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31696page=2 http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-mapping_the_n900_keyboard-001/ http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127 http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-develop...@maemo.org/msg22253.html http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/enlightenment-de...@lists.sourceforge.net/13111286.html http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/x_keyboard_input_focus_on_n900/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36952highlight=input+focus My feeling is that while this may have been technically allowed by the spec (I don't know, I haven't read the spec) it definitely is the case that many very long-standing programs are broken by this so it was not a good idea. It is important to adhere to informal accepted practises as well as formal standards. Nokia did this for reasonable engineering reasons. It saves power on mobile devices. And apparently they felt that the majority of users would use apps specifically designed and compiled for the device. But there is a large community of users who use this device as a Linux computer, running standard Linux/Unix apps either ported to run natively in maemo, run in a chroot, or run remotely over X. And it is not reasonable to modify and recompile the huge base of Linux/Unix code to be compatible with the N900. I hope Nokia patches this, at least to make it a user-configurable option. In the short term, I almost have working a workaround, a shell script that runs in the background, detecting when windows get exposed and calling XSetInputFocus() on them. It works but is currently power hungry and specific to emacs. I'm working on making it more power efficient and more general. I'll post it when I'm done. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
email use cases on N900
When an email arrives and I click on the orange email notification it goes directly to the email but trash is greyed out and I can't delete the message after reading it. To delete the message I need to click back|user|inbox|message to get back to the message, this time with the trash not greyed out. This is tedious. Is there a faster way? I get tons of spam and need a quick easy way to delete such. What is the mountain landscape icon? Why is it greyed out when I get to the message by clcking user|inbox|message but not greyed out when I get to the message by clicking on the notification. But what does it do? Even when it is not greyed out, the wait icon swirled for a few seconds but nothing noticible happened. Also, I have all email forked to both my desktop and N900 (with procmail). I usually read on my desktop and only read on my N900 when away from my desktop. But if I don't clean out the inbox, email can accumulate. After a few days I can get several hundre emails. As I have read them all on my desktop, I want to quickly discard them on my N900. On Chinook, I could easily select all email and click delete. I see no such easy way on Maemo5. Is there an easy way that I am missing? The lack of such a capability would destroy my use case. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
leftmost icon on X terminal in maemo5
What does the leftmost icon on the X terminal in maemo5 do? The one that is a leftward-upward arrow that toggles with and without a red crossout line? Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 features
sebastian maemo wrote: Hi everybody: One of my clients has recently asked me about the possibility to get a portable computer like my N770... :-) I've talked him about the N900, and despite the price of the unlocked device, he has asked me to check whether its features would satisfy his needs... I know how N770 works... but I have almost no idea about N900... I have read the full specs at the Nokia website http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications, though I'd like to know whether there's any application that enables a user to open a M$ Office file, (doc or xls type, for example). I think that the answer is no, though that wouldn't be a problem if the PDF reader works well enough... -- Salut, Sebas OpenOffice.org is available for the N8x0 through Easy Debian, but I don't know if it will work with the N900 yet. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/easy-deb-chroot/ Maybe it will be available for the N900 soon? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 features
Peter Flynn wrote: sebastian maemo wrote: Hi everybody: One of my clients has recently asked me about the possibility to get a portable computer like my N770... :-) I've talked him about the N900, and despite the price of the unlocked device, he has asked me to check whether its features would satisfy his needs... I know how N770 works... but I have almost no idea about N900... I have read the full specs at the Nokia website http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications, though I'd like to know whether there's any application that enables a user to open a M$ Office file, (doc or xls type, for example). I think that the answer is no, though that wouldn't be a problem if the PDF reader works well enough... I don't know about the N900, but AbiWord on the N800 has no problem opening .doc and .docx files. And the PDF reader works fine. Abiword doesn't work for me. I can't get it to open anything other than its native proprietary format. I've tried the maemo version, the linux version and the Windows version, all with the same results. Maybe your experience will be different. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
where can I get a complete list of UI gestures, keystrokes, etc.
Where can I get complete user documentation for all of the UI gestures, keystrokes, etc. for the N900? Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
patch to (re)add support for bluetooth keyboards on N900
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6685 has a recent post that contains a patch to xkb-data to (re)add support for bluetooth keyboards. I would like to apply the patch but to build the patch you need scratchbox and I don't have scratchbox set up (and don't know how to set it up). If someone has scratchbox set up, can you build the patch and send me the resulting .deb to install? Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
X keyboard input focus on N900
When I run emacs23-lucid on an N900, I can't get the emacs window to get keyboard input focus. This happens two different ways: - running emacs23-lucid in a Debian sid chroot - running a remote emacs23-lucid on Debian lenny via ssh in maemo5 Any ideas on how to fix this? (I do both of these under maemo4 on an N810 without problem.) Thanks, Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
N900 $510
N900 $510 http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n900-unlocked-maemo-internet-tablet-3g-phone-panoramic-desktop/q/loc/12435/212003401.html?adid=17582 Note that there is no mention of the fact that 3.5G is network dependent and NOT quadband. Even at this very discounted price, it's still way too expensive for most people. If they get it below $200 locked and $300 unlocked it might have a chance, but at these prices it's going to sell very poorly. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 $510
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Erik Hovland e...@hovland.org wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: N900 $510 http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n900-unlocked-maemo-internet-tablet-3g-phone-panoramic-desktop/q/loc/12435/212003401.html?adid=17582 Note that there is no mention of the fact that 3.5G is network dependent and NOT quadband. Even at this very discounted price, it's still way too expensive for most people. If they get it below $200 locked and $300 unlocked it might have a chance, but at these prices it's going to sell very poorly. You mean like the N95 through N97 selling poorly in the US? Agreed. But at least the N8x0 showed that they could go down in price over time. E -- Erik Hovland e...@hovland.org http://hovland.org/ But not enough, and certainly not quickly enough. The N8x0s only came down to a palatable price well after production had stopped and they were already getting scarce. That's not the way to sell lots of units. Mark Ogden Nash - The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat. - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 $510
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:17 PM, David Greaves da...@dgreaves.com wrote: Mark wrote: N900 $510 http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n900-unlocked-maemo-internet-tablet-3g-phone-panoramic-desktop/q/loc/12435/212003401.html?adid=17582 Note that there is no mention of the fact that 3.5G is network dependent and NOT quadband. Hey, Mark, you mistyped https://ssl.buy.com/ac/contact/contactlogin.aspx as maemo-users@maemo.org Easy mistake. Simply supplying the only info I've yet seen on the availability of the N900 in the USA. Do you know of a better/cheaper source? If so, let's have it! Even at this very discounted price, it's still way too expensive for most people. Would you please give me your opinion on the price of Ferrari's too. They're expensive and they break down a lot. I guess they've got no chance of commercial success. That's called a straw man fallacy. I'm not going to bother to respond. If they get it below $200 locked and $300 unlocked it might have a chance, but at these prices it's going to sell very poorly. Amazing insight into economic theory there. But don't you think they'd sell even more at $50 each unlocked? David Sarcasm noted, but I'm simply quoting iPhone territory. There are only two possibilities: either the N900 is intended to compete with the iPhone, which means it must come in at an equivalent price point; or it isn't intended to compete with the iPhone, in which case it must be cheaper than the iPhone. More expensive is simply not an option if they want it to be a success. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 $510
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Ralph Angenendt ralph.angene...@gmail.com wrote: Am 09.12.09 23:19, schrieb Mark: You can complain about reality all you want, but that's not going to change it. The reality is that NO ONE is paying $900 for an unlocked iPhone, and the unlocked price for an iPhone is far, far below what it will be for an N900 if when they make a deal with a carrier. Erm. Everybody is paying that price for an *UNLOCKED* iPhone. Subsidized ones seem cheaper, but probably aren't (depending on contract). Baloney. They are either paying far less than that or are jailbreaking a locked one. No one smart enough to demand an unlocked phone is stupid enough to pay that much for one. So the iPhone *is* more expensive than the N900 *when* you buy an *UNLOCKED* one and don't want to be bound to a carrier. Patently untrue. *IF* you want to buy a subsidized N900, well go complain to your carrier. Ralph Yeah, it's always somebody else's fault, isn't it? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 $510
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote: The price of an unlocked iPhone 3GS is $900: How can nearly half that price for similar hardware be way too expensive?! What magic wand can you wave to reduce the price of materials and RD costs to make these devices palatably priced in the marketplace? (Obviously high price is the barrier which makes Apple so successful and Nokia less so, in the US at least. Oh, no - hang on...) Cheers, Andrew Apple's hardware is no less expensive to produce, and probably more so because of the compactness (specifically referring to the iPhone). And Apple is NOT all that successful with anything besides the iPhone. If they hadn't come out with the iPod when they did, and subsequently the iPhone, they wouldn't still be with us. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
Timo Pelkonen wrote: 2009/12/2 Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie mailto:peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie Timo Pelkonen wrote: Then let the markets decide it instead of your speculation, markets are always right unlike persons. And the Tooth Fairy will still visit you. Markets are easily swayed and perverted. People -- especially experts with good judgment -- are right much more often than markets. ///Peter But even when perverted, markets are still right. Can you buy something at a price that is opposite to market prices(without fraud)? Or does somebody force you to buy overpriced goods against your own will? Didn't you ever notice that people == markets? ps. I'd like to have some sources to your claim that experts are right much more than markets... So you mean that a group of people (experts with good judgement) doesn't make a single mistake in couple years? Lets stop here, this will go straight from maemo-users into economics in 2 seconds. Ossipena / Timo So, if markets are right, you're saying that Windows is far, far better than any other OS out there? That iPhones are by far the best smartphone? Give me a break. The sheep that are the buying public will buy anything that is cool and has the best marketing strategy, regardless of whether it's actually worth anything. The markets are NOT right. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
Marius Vollmer wrote: ext Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. I would change that to Maemo devices. Linux, the kernel, is certainly not to blame for a clogged up user land, and Maemo is so different from any other existing GNU-or-not-GNU/Linux distribution that it is solely responsible for all its shortcomings. (In other words, I only ever reinstall my Debian GNU/Linux OSes when the hardware get replaced, and I run 'unstable' on everything.) Unfortunately, Maemo hasn't had a chance yet to gain real long-term stability. The life-cycle of a Maemo version is too short for that, and there is no continuity between versions. Again, I'm guilty of not being clear enough. I was referring to Linux on handheld devices. Every Linux handheld device that I've been interested in and followed has *required* periodic re-flashes of the OS, either to fix growing instability or to flash a new image that increases stability and/or hardware or software functionality. As for desktop OSs, I would say Linux is on par with Windows: Windows may be slightly (but only slightly) less stable, but has much better hardware support. I haven't had to reinstall Windows (any version) any more than I've had to reinstall Linux. ...And nobody has answered my question: is it even possible to flash updated Windows Mobile images to those devices? Is it done routinely as with Maemo/OpenMoko/etc.? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
Dan Ritter wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 04:17:57PM -0700, Mark wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Henrik Madsen h...@imm.dtu.dk wrote: If you have never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile you are the blind person. Almost all producers of mobile phones are now leaving Windows Mobile and considering Linux devices instead. Are you hired by Microsoft?? Yeah, I'm a Micro$oft fanboy, that's why I run Linux on all my machines... I've never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile because I've never had a Windows Mobile device. What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. That also goes for PalmOS devices, Symbian devices, SX0 devices, etc... PalmOS was patched with ROM reflashes at least twice during the times I was using a Palm Pro, III, IIIx, and at least once when I was using a Treo 700P. -dsr- There was a minor PalmOS patch for my Visor, but it was just an added patch that resided in the user space, not an OS reflash. Flashing the OS on Visors wasn't possible - it was strictly ROM. I didn't notice any difference resulting from the patch, either, so it couldn't have been anything major. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Thomas Waelti twae...@gmail.com wrote: snip I would say the Maemo pattern has followed the Symbian pattern quite well, including the maturity of the released software (first initial firmwares with some bugs, more mature releases with additional features later on: see Chinook Diablo). snip I'm afraid you are giving the wrong example there, as Diablo is several steps backward from Chinook. Chinook supports the (N800) hardware better than and is every bit as stable as Diablo, at least for me. I'm going back to Chinook ASAP. Symbian evolved from Epoch, which is the OS on my Psion Series 5. Psion first dropped hardware production and became a software-only company (renaming Epoch to Symbian and developing it far past the original capabilities of Epoch and licensing it to companies producing smartphones and PDAs), then sold off the OS to somebody else (Nokia?), and now has become Psion Teklogix (presumably by acquiring Teklogix) and is producing niche handhelds running Windows CE, of all things. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Igor Stoppa igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: ext Timo Pelkonen wrote: Then let the markets decide it instead of your speculation, markets are always right unlike persons. Ossipena/Timo Especially when the speculations are offensive without even bringing any evidence pointing to whose fault it is. igor Yeah, I guess you don't consider market statistics that Nokia is continually losing share to be facts, because they don't fit with your fanboy views. Just to make it clear that when I said developers I was referring to those paid by Nokia, not the volunteers. Nokia is the one who is taking advantage of people who desperately want the open source community to grow and repeatedly ripping them off, both volunteer developers and consumers. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:49 AM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: Yeah, I guess you don't consider market statistics that Nokia is continually losing share to be facts, because they don't fit with your fanboy views. In case you had not realized it yet (hint: read my email address) i'm not a fanboy, i'm just an employee. And market statistics are irrelevant here. Exactly, because they prove my point, not yours. The point is that releasing devices with incomplete and buggy OS and software, missing functionality that may seem irrelevant to designers or developers but is critical to consumers, and shirking the responsibility of support are not any better for Nokia than they are for those who are buying their products. You don't have a clue when you attribute decisions to developers and _this_ is a fact, because you are not part with our internal processes. Just to make it clear that when I said developers I was referring to those paid by Nokia, not the volunteers. Again, where did you get that Nokia developers decide about product features? Okay, further clarification: there are hardware developers as well as software developers, and designers who specify what features will be included as well as people above them who are making specific decisions about the product. I'm lumping them all together, because a developer/designer who doesn't stand up and be heard when somebody above is telling him to do something stupid is just as guilty as the person making the decision. Regardless, whatever specific individuals are making the decisions is irrelevant, because they're all in the same company. That is the point I'm making: it's Nokia in general that is at fault. The community (maemo, and now mer) then has to try to make up for Nokia's irresponsibility, but by then it's already too late. Nokia's resources are _far_ greater than those of the community, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. In other words, it would cost Nokia a tiny fraction of the time and effort required of the community after the fact if Nokia would put serious effort into getting it right in the first place. Instead, they make a token effort and slough the serious work off onto the community. They want something for nothing, and up until now they're getting it. Nokia is the one who is taking advantage of people who desperately want the open source community to grow and repeatedly ripping them off, both volunteer developers and consumers. This is your opinion, which is, as usual, totally irrelevant to previous my comment: you don't have a clue about Nokia internal processes Because Nokia's specific internal processes are irrelevant to the discussion. What's relevant is the result of those processes. I also have to point out that actions (and inactions) speak louder than words, and there's a very significant and clear history here. Now, please, go ahead and write again something that is irrelevant to the discussion. Possibly hinting to some conspiration or exploiting. igor How's this for relevance: I will never buy another Nokia product. I'm committed to making the most out of what I've got, which is why I'm still here. It's clear that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: what profile does Apple's BT keyboard use? I have a Nokia SU-8W that I bought when it came out but am surprised to hear that they're expensive. Are they no longer manufactured? -Gary I'm not certain about the profile (it seems to be HID), but many people have reported that the Apple BT keyboards work out of the box with the tablets, at least the N8x0s. N770s apparently require more effort (see http://test.maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard). Bonus: they work with Windows, too! The Nokia SU-8W probably has been discontinued. You can still find them online (see http://tinyurl.com/y93umcf), but not through Nokia's online store. The demand for and availability of folding keyboards seems to be waning. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: thank you for satisfying so quickly my request Cheers, Igor Sigh... I guess potential customers leaving in droves isn't relevant to you... exactly why Nokia is headed for self-destruction... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 1:22 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: From: ext Mark [wolfm...@gmail.com] Sigh... I guess potential customers leaving in droves isn't relevant to you... exactly why Nokia is headed for self-destruction... The only relevant reply that you should - but obviously are phisically unable to - give is on the line of: yes, I am not aware of how things go inside Nokia and it is unfair to blame developers because i have no ground to assume that they are responsible for all the design decisions Then you can have your rants about Nokia, droves of cheated, unsatisfied, angered customers flocking to Android, iPhone, you name it. But that's a different thread. igor Except for the not so insignificant detail that the developers (in narrow sense that you mean, as in software developers) are the ones who say when they have finished their job - when they haven't... Other people may make the decisions as to what features are to be included, but the developers themselves are the ones whose responsibility it is to ensure that 1) all of the specified features are in fact present and accounted for and 2) bugs have been eliminated. And thanks for clearing up the fact that you are the one who is going off on an irrelevant tangent. I only started posting because someone mentioned a showstopper and he was blasted for it. Along the way I happened to use the word developer meaning anyone connected with developing a finished product - not some specific part of it (and admittedly with too little clarity) and you took offense as a software developer, which is only a small part of the product development picture. Ah, the joys of industry jargon... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:32 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: From: ext Mark [wolfm...@gmail.com] Except for the not so insignificant detail that the developers (in narrow sense that you mean, as in software developers) are the ones who say when they have finished their job - when they haven't... Other people may make the decisions as to what features are to be included, but the developers themselves are the ones whose responsibility it is to ensure that 1) all of the specified features are in fact present and accounted for and 2) bugs have been eliminated. Man, you really don't know what you are talking about ... igor I know enough about software development to know that you know whether you've finished your work or not. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:32 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: From: ext Mark [wolfm...@gmail.com] Except for the not so insignificant detail that the developers (in narrow sense that you mean, as in software developers) are the ones who say when they have finished their job - when they haven't... Other people may make the decisions as to what features are to be included, but the developers themselves are the ones whose responsibility it is to ensure that 1) all of the specified features are in fact present and accounted for and 2) bugs have been eliminated. Man, you really don't know what you are talking about ... igor Oh, sorry, I should have said If you're *competent* you know whether you've finished your work or not... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia developers - WAS: bluetooth keyboards and N900
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Henrik Madsen h...@imm.dtu.dk wrote: Hi Mark, As on ordinary user I have newer posted something before here. We are mostly just a group of users of ther Nokia Internet Tables who are now also looking forward to receive the N900. I have followed several of your postings, and I would kindly ask you just to stay away for this thread; you seem to be unhappy, so why don't you just find your preferred device and stop spreading this very non-informative and selected negative posts. We enjoy meamo.org, our internet tablets at our university, so, please, find another forum -- where you also might feel more happy and positive. Best regards, Henrik Because, darn it all, the N800 *is* exactly the hardware I want. I'm frustrated because the OS and software have never been finished, even years after its release, and rather than finish it, or even the N810, they're coming out with yet another device they're never going to finish. Maybe you should open your eyes and be a little less happy. If you're not finding my posts informative it's because you've got your blinders on. I recently was forced to reflash my tablet because it had become unusably unstable (I've never heard of that being an issue with Windows Mobile or any other mobile OS...), so I decided to try Diablo. Big mistake. Just like kubuntu 9.10, they took several steps backward in stability and compatibility. I'm going to have to reflash back to Chinook, just like I had to reinstall kubuntu 9.04, in order to get all the hardware working again. (I traced some of the problems to the Linux kernel itself, so Canonical and KDE are't alone in culpability.) So yeah, I'm very unhappy with the Linux community in general. I want them to wake up and make some real progress in the world. It's all within reach, if they would just wise up and do the right thing. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: OS Stability
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Henrik Madsen h...@imm.dtu.dk wrote: If you have never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile you are the blind person. Almost all producers of mobile phones are now leaving Windows Mobile and considering Linux devices instead. Are you hired by Microsoft?? Yeah, I'm a Micro$oft fanboy, that's why I run Linux on all my machines... I've never had an issue with stability on Windows Mobile because I've never had a Windows Mobile device. What I said was that I've never _heard_ of Windows Mobile devices being reflashed like Linux devices. That also goes for PalmOS devices, Symbian devices, SX0 devices, etc... (In)stability is one thing, being forced to periodically replace your OS is quite another. So you tell me: do Windows Mobile devices get constantly reflashed? With new versions of the OS? Even if they do, the fact that Linux devices do means that Linux is no better or more stable than Windows... I know for a fact that Linux is far less stable than PalmOS and Epoch. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
Qole wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Jeffrey Mark Siskind q...@purdue.edu mailto:q...@purdue.edu wrote: This could be a showstopper for me as it would break my central use case. And I would need to cancel my order and consider buying something else (like a Pandora, Netwalker, or M1/M2). I too would like to see full keyboard support in Maemo 5. But why the threats to buy a competing device? Are you hoping to scare someone into fixing this? It's merely a reminder that consumers need devices that work, and work the way _they_ want them to, not the way that some narrow-minded developer thinks they should work. Consumers are going to go elsewhere in droves if the major shortcomings of the N900 are not addressed. Of course, a few of those are hardware, so you've lost a bunch already... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
bluetooth keyboards and N900
I have an N810 and use it with a variety of bluetooth keyboards as a pocket laptop (running a Debian chroot with Emacs, Scheme-C, and LaTeX). I was planning on upgrading to an N900 and have one on order. But the crucial use case for me is to continue using it with a bluetooth keyboard as a pocket laptop. A thread on talk reports that there are issues with doing this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34872highlight=bluetooth+keyboard and various bugzilla entries report bluetooth issues in general and bluetooth keyboard issues in particular as wontfix. This could be a showstopper for me as it would break my central use case. And I would need to cancel my order and consider buying something else (like a Pandora, Netwalker, or M1/M2). My question is this: how difficult would this be for a user or the community to fix without support from Nokia? Is it simply a matter of doing some xmodmap calls or modifying some keymap file (like /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/... in Debian)? Will it require recompiling a kernel module? (Does the community have the necessary header files to do that?) Or is it impossible for a user or the community to fix? Thanks, Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: bluetooth keyboards and N900
I have an N810 and use it with a variety of bluetooth keyboards My question is this: how difficult would this be for a user or the community to fix without support from Nokia? Please see http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles andre Please read my post. That is not what I am talking about. I am familiar with the above. My OP contained a URL for a thread that discussed the issue being particular keys not working. The problem is that the generic pc-105 layout was removed from Maemo5, Yes, this appears to be the problem. My question is, how easy is it to fix. As I asked in my OP: My question is this: how difficult would this be for a user or the community to fix without support from Nokia? Is it simply a matter of doing some xmodmap calls or modifying some keymap file (like /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/... in Debian)? Will it require recompiling a kernel module? (Does the community have the necessary header files to do that?) Or is it impossible for a user or the community to fix? Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 5:58 AM, Frantisek Dufka duf...@seznam.cz wrote: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: The issue was (abstract) if a reboot would consume more energy than a night-long idle. As I said - by Matan's equation in the forum post, one reboot is 16 hours of standby. So at least with wi-fi off, keeping it idle looks better. I was thinking about testing with wi-fi but my router cannot keep connection for so long so it would be a bit mor complex than just keeping it in the drawer. you should be able to squeeze up to 44 nights out of a charged battery. I guess with 30 full days I could do 60 nights ;-) But I somehow need to keep it powered off during daytime. Maybe I could shut it down in the morning and boot it in the evening to save power ;-) Frantisek The absurdity knows know bounds. You're saying a battery will last longer with a device turned on in sleep mode than it is even capable keeping a charge sitting all by itself out of the device on a counter. Give me a break. We're talking real-world usage here. If you actually *use* the device, rather than just letting it sit idle doing nothing (in which case why do you even own the thing?!?!?!), you're not going to get anything like that kind of battery duration. I've tried putting my N800 in offline sleep mode at night, and never got more than 3 days out of it, even with very little usage during the day. If I turn it off when I'm not using it and turn it on and back off 2-4 times a day, I can get 1 to 2 weeks out of it. Even if the N810s are better, there are too many variables to defend such outrageous claims, especially if you (again) actually use the thing and install any apps that run in the background. Let's leave theory to the theorists and take a dose of reality, okay? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Tuomas Kulve tuo...@kulve.fi wrote: Eero Tamminen wrote: (You may remember that e.g. N8x0 use less battery if it's put to offline-mode instead of being shut down for the night.) How's that possible? Offline mode shuts down the wireless stuff but still runs the cpu. And, afaik, shutting down the device shuts down the cpu etc. as well (not sure what happens if you have alarms there). Do you happen to have a pointer to some old discussions or wherever this has been explained? -- Tuomas This is just one of many myths regarding the tablets. What is true is that if you turn your tablet off and on *many* times during a day, you will experience shorter battery duration than if you just put it to sleep. The reasons are as stated: when starting up and shutting down you are running the machine at full blast for a significant length of time, which rarely happens otherwise. However, if you only turn it on once or twice a day, your battery will last many more days if you shut it down than if you leave it on, even at maximum power savings. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn
Apparently many think that Ovi Maps is just as bad as the tablet version... http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/10/ovi-maps-really-is-this-best-we-can-do.html On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Ovi Maps uses Navteq maps. The engine is different from the mapping application on the N8x0 series tablets. On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple years with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first is excellent, the latter very promising. I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900. Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch? K The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a favorite and use that for your destination the directions are pretty good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths of the standalone devices. All of the other navigation apps for the tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing. Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do navigation... Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app exactly like waze. I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2 or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr. The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely ktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple years with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first is excellent, the latter very promising. I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900. Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch? K The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a favorite and use that for your destination the directions are pretty good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths of the standalone devices. All of the other navigation apps for the tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing. Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do navigation... Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app exactly like waze. I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2 or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr. The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-10384544-265.html?tag=nl.e703 Finally, a navigation solution for handhelds that really works. As soon as T-Mobile comes out with an Android 2.0 phone that I like, it's sayonara to the piece of crap TomTom I bought a couple of months ago (I'm on the third unit with a defective battery and am not going to bother sending this one in - I'll replace the battery myself - but that's just scratching the surface of all the horrible design problems. I incorrectly assumed that TomTom had been around long enough to figure out how to make a gpsr, but I should have stuck with Garmin) as well as my Nokia tablet that never really did anything well and is now dying an ugly death due to corrupt and probably failing internal flash memory. Maybe this will force the standalone gps manufacturers to bring the map update prices down to something approaching reasonable. Or even run them all out of business, which they so richly deserve after all these years of highway robbery. 95% of the map data they get for free from governments and other free and public sources, at least 4% of it is corrections from their own consumers who have paid dearly for maps, and _maybe_ 1% of it is obtained in-house. And since at least 95% of any given map update is identical to the old map, it's absurd to assert that they have any real financial investment in it. It's a racket very like the printer manufacturers who sell some printers near and sometimes even below cost, but make such extremely high profit margins on the ink and toner that they could give the printers away for free and it wouldn't make any difference. Can you say at least 6000% profit?!?!? (Except the GPS manufacturers are making a very healthy profit on the hardware as well.) Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: VS: Re: N900 Delayed
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Timo Pelkonen pelt...@gmail.com wrote: Aihe: Re: N900 Delayed Lähettäjä: Nicolau Werneck nwern...@gmail.com Päivämäärä: 25.10.2009 22:23 On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 08:49:58AM -0600, Mark wrote: The overwhelming majority of the Linux desktop apps I've tried are far from finished, (aside from games and other fluff). Long before an app is finished, the developers split their efforts and you end up with a dozen competing apps, none of which will ever be finished. They're all too busy arguing about design details/philosophy to actually complete critical functionality. That goes for Linux as an OS as well. Can you list some specific examples of Linux programs that compete with each other when they should merge into less projects? Mapping/navigation programs, email/calendar/PIM suites, media players, office suites/apps, and the list goes on and on and on. Any time there are several apps that are trying to do the same thing. Here are some programs I use. mozilla, emacs, mutt, inkscape, pdflatex, awesome (window manager). They do have competitors, like konqueror, vim, pine and xfig, but I think it's fair to say all these classic programs deserve their places. And I know these are not the avarage user's applications... So what kind of applications are you refering to? Email and RSS readers? Spreadsheet, text editor, twitter client, media player?... xmms should merge with amarok? I did start my own small and crappy twitter client the other day, and I've been using it in my N800. Would you suggest me to drop my project and instead devote myself to enhance another existing competitor? Am I just thinking about what is best for me instead of what is best for the community? The point is that you're not doing what's best for you, never mind the community. You're expending your energy creating something from scratch that already exists in some form elsewhere, but instead of taking advantage of what already exists, you choose to strike off on your own. (See http://www.fsckin.com/2008/03/31/twitter-clients-for-linux/ or http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/new_twitter_client/ or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mauku/ ). You could use existing apps, port something to maemo or make an existing app better. Then everybody would benefit, and it would be less work for you. ++nicolau The point is to find balance between opposites. This is a myth perpetuated by people who think the world is black and white and that compromise is in and of itself bad. When you say opposite, the actual fact is that you mean different. By definition, no Twitter (for example) app can be the opposite of another, because they are trying to do the same thing. They may be different in appearance or feature set, but the fundamental goal is the same. The truth is that an app that is flexible and offers many more options is far better than a slew of competing apps, none of which have the exact mix of features that anybody wants. The result is that people usually have to install multiple apps for the same thing, because no one app does everything they need. That wastes time, space, effort and energy. No competition is very bad and wrong kind of competition is very bad. But competition is really needed to change things to better. Lame iPhone - argument: web surfing is what it is. If you dont like it there is nothing to do (because no competition cant exist because of app store rules). N900 has webkit AND mozilla... snip Stifling freedom has nothing to do with competition. Apple isn't stifling competition (there's plenty of that within the app store) but they are attempting to stifle innovation itself. They want everything to fit their own narrow view of how things should be (which is what causes the counterproductive competition in the OSS and Linux worlds), but the fundamental motive is profit. The major error that people are making is in insisting that competition and cooperation are mutually exclusive terms, which is far from the truth. In actuality, cooperation *is* competition to make things better. There is no one perfect example user who represents 5M mobile phone users, there are only groups that prefer different things at random. Ossipena Exactly. Which is why flexibility is key and why deliberately inflexible competing apps that don't fully meet anyone's needs are bad. A modular approach is best. For those who don't like fluff, the basic app does the basic stuff. Plugins do everything else. Let people skin and change the UI if they like that stuff and don't mind the bloat. The truth is that good design really can allow everybody to get what they want. Somebody recently was accusing Firefox of being bloated. They were completely ignoring the fact that firefox allows you to get down to the nitty gritty and control nearly everything it does. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to install dozens of plugins, and even a lot
Re: N900 Delayed
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Andrea Grandi a.gra...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/25 Mark Haury wolfm...@gmail.com: John B. Holmblad wrote: All, I just happened to find some news from the last day or so concerning delay in the N900 product availability. Here is the url to the Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023?feedType=RSSfeedName=technologyNews Now, does this mean a developer's November, that is, November 30 or a marketing department's November, that is, November 1? ...or a Linux/Maemo November, meaning some time in December you might get the hardware, and about a year later, long before the software is completed, they'll abandon it and introduce a new model... If I only could have a cent for all the FUD I read :D -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc My statement is based on fact concerning all three of Nokia's tablets so far, not to mention all other supposedly OSS Linux devices of which I'm aware to date. 2 years after it was supposed to be released as a consumer device, the FreeRunner still is far from reality. The overwhelming majority of the Linux desktop apps I've tried are far from finished, (aside from games and other fluff). Long before an app is finished, the developers split their efforts and you end up with a dozen competing apps, none of which will ever be finished. They're all too busy arguing about design details/philosophy to actually complete critical functionality. That goes for Linux as an OS as well. The only ones that approach anything like day-to-day usability are the ones that have a commercial aspect and a business model that brings in money. Not that commercial products don't have their problems, but at least they have to complete the critical functionality in order to have a chance. If OSS developers would come to their senses and realize that 1) Compromise (over philosophy, not functionality) is an integral part of existence and 2) A little cooperation will take you ten times as far as a whole bunch of competition, they could take over the world. But that will never happen... Contrary to moronic opinion, competition is NOT good. The problem with competition is that it isn't about innovation, and it's not positive. It's about getting one over on the other guy, regardless of any actual value. It's about negative energy. Competition says, your idea is fine, but my idea is better. It's *cooperation* that says, okay, let's take this idea and see what we can do with it and how far we can go with it. Competition is what kills really good ideas, while others that are far inferior are successful, not because they are good but because competition rewards the killer instinct and status-quo thinking and penalizes original thought. Remember when you could identify the make, model and year of an automobile just from a photo of a 4-inch square of lines anywhere on the vehicle? Now you have to find a badge just to determine the make, never mind the model or year. And within a make, different models were completely different and attractive in their own, very different ways. Within a model lineup there would be some you really liked and others that left you cold, but there was always something you would consider. Now, the idiotic brand image paradigm that makes all models from a manufacturer have the same styling cues means that when they make a stupid decision it isn't just one or two models that are fugly, but the whole line. It's ironic that it's competition that has resulted in all cars looking alike. Somebody puts out a model that is attractive and well-received, and everybody else has to copy styling cues from it, unfortunately almost always with a bad result, but they keep doing it anyway. ...but I digress. The N900 adds some important functionality, but it also removes some critical functionality, and the price is so far beyond what is reasonable for such a device that it's not likely to be very successful. Even if they eventually are subsidized by the carriers, they will still cost as much or more than the competition when totally unlocked and open. I certainly can't afford one. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 Delayed
John B. Holmblad wrote: All, I just happened to find some news from the last day or so concerning delay in the N900 product availability. Here is the url to the Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023?feedType=RSSfeedName=technologyNews Now, does this mean a developer's November, that is, November 30 or a marketing department's November, that is, November 1? ...or a Linux/Maemo November, meaning some time in December you might get the hardware, and about a year later, long before the software is completed, they'll abandon it and introduce a new model... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: How many of you are using mer on N810?
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Henrik Frisk fris...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:42 PM, sean tech.j...@myfairpoint.net wrote: Henrik Frisk wrote: Hi all, I'm considering moving from Diablo to Mer. How stable is it? Anyone using it already? best, /Henrik I tried Mer a release ago, it might of been .15. To many small problems that when added together really annoyed me. Sound was dead, some windows would not close, and web support was just not in place yet. When I read more comments about it being in a more useful state, and more apps listed, I will likely try again. What really put me into the mindset to go back to Diablo was the lack of applications in the software catalog management app. I know you can apt-get some apps from Ubuntu repositories, but I wanted to see the ready made already in its own application management package, like it is in Diablo. Hardware support needs to improve, at least I think so, as well as a larger list of applications listed. If enough applications are listed to make it useful, I think it would go a long way to users testing Mer, putting up with and reporting the problems. Thanks for the report Sean. Unfortunately, the way you describe Mer is the way Diablo works for me (or does not work I should say). The latest problem is the bug described here (http://n2.nabble.com/Modest-complaining-about-wrong-user-name-password-td3768229.html#a3768229) and makes Modest unusable. I've been using Claws, but I like to navigate with my fingers which is very difficult in its UI. Since Diablo I find it virtually impossible to visit any Web2.0 intense sites (maybe it's just JS). I used to be able to go to GoogleDocs before Diablo (slow but possible). Since Diablo it's simply not possible. Maybe I have a hardware or memory problem? Another annoying thing is that I have to reset the language setting for my BT keyboard every time I connect it. I admit to not having been very good at adressing (some of) these issues here on the list, so if anyone has any suggestions for work-arounds I'd be happy. But my basic needs (email, web browser and simple text editor with BT keyboard) are no longer satisfied by my N810 with Diablo. Would it help to flash it and reinstall the system? Any other experiences with Mer would also be of interest to me. best, /Henrik I'm still using the final version of Chinook and have almost no issues with bugs or reliability. I could use more built-in memory for apps, but that's another matter. I saw early on that Diablo had too many issues to risk the upgrade. When 32GB SDHC Class 6 cards come down to where I can afford one, I'll probably try running Chinook, Diablo, Mer and EasyDebian all off one card (if that's possible) so I can compare them side-by-side. (Only after a comprehensive multiple-method backup...) My current 8GB cards are nearly full, and a fair comparison can only take place if all my data etc. is identically available to each OS. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 Cases
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM, sean tech.j...@myfairpoint.net wrote: Is anyone able to recommend a case for the N800? I would like one that protects the unit, perhaps has built in slots for space memory cards, and allows easy use of the unit. Thanks Sean I've been really happy with this one: http://www.pdair.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1010_190_1189products_id=6346 but you can't open the stand or access the USB port or SD slot with it on. That isn't an issue for me because even though it fits snugly and perfectly it's really easy to slip on and off. They have different types of leather cases as well. I also have an Invisible Shield from http://www.zagg.com/ , and between the two my N800 is still looking pristine after nearly two years of hard use and being knocked around in my pack. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Maemo SDK
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Claudio Saavedra csaave...@igalia.com wrote: El jue, 01-10-2009 a las 08:23 -0400, Dan Ritter escribió: On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:14:33PM +0200, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 01.10.2009, 14:00 +0200 schrieb Alexander Schröter: Yes sure I understand but wouldn't it be nice to have a look at the current progress by looking at your very own N900 virtual machine to see some of the programs do their thing. I mean how would I know what needs development if I cannot see them peforming. That will be possible for the apps provided by Nokia when the N900 is available, but making some applications (and their features) available earlier probably isn't good from a marketing point of view. I bought my first PDA, a Palm Pro, after trying out an emulator way back in 1997 or so. It's an excellent marketing move, if you have a good product. Did you try that emulator before the product was in the market? Claudio That's utterly irrelevant. If you can't run your applications in an emulator, you can't get a reasonable idea of how well they are working. And if the product isn't something you're ashamed of, there's no reason not to let anybody who wants to try your product to download and use the emulator. If they like what they see, they're going to buy the real thing. But there's always a lot of resistance to releasing emulators when the product is both 1) Way overpriced and 2) Not very good... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: How to best partition the external memory card
2009/9/27 Alejandro López listas@googlemail.com: Hi all, some time ago I replaced in my N810 my old 1Gb SanDisk memory card by a new 4Gb Class-4 Micro-SDHC (with an adaptor) Kingston memory card and partitioned it to have just one big partition which I formated in FAT32 (standard maemo tools). Since then I find my tablet a bit slow (slower than before), specially when writing; and some things do not work as expected (i.e. the media player starts updating the media library but will never end). Since I read in this list that Class 4 should be enough for the N810, I was wondering if it could be the way I partitioned the memory card that is posing the problem. Should I have partitioned it in several smaller partitions? Which is the recommended size for a partition? Any Ideas? Thanks. Alejandro I've had an 8Gb Class 6 SDHC (actually two) in my N800 since shortly after I got it. They are FAT32 formatted. I have had zero trouble with them. However, I finally disabled metalayer-crawler because it completely takes over the system for several minutes on bootup. If you've added lots of media files on your new card that may be your problem, in other words there's not really anything wrong other than bad programming and you probably can't do much about it. I'm using YouAmp and mplayer instead of the worthless built-in media player (which becomes unresponsive in a short time - it keeps playing but trying to click any controls is an exercise in extreme frustration). Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: best way to get a n900 in Belgium?
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Laurent Léonard wrote: I'm also interested in that piece of information. I contacted the 2 official Nokia resellers in Brussels, but I got an answer only from one and he has no information at all about the N900, its price or availability in Belgium. I asked three Nokia stores in Ireland (and two in the UK on a recent visit) and none of them had ever heard of the N900. I showed them my N800 and they'd never seen or heard of one before. One guy asked if it was an iPhone...he was impressed; he'd never seen a pocket computer before... Someone in Nokia Marketing needs to send out some info to someone... ///Peter Actually, that's the way they like it. They aren't interested in making a consumer device, only developer's toys that will never be complete or polished to the level that the average consumer can make good use of it. I am often asked about my N800 too. I tell them what it is, but I'm careful not to recommend it to people that I know wouldn't be able to make the best of it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Some buttons not working properly on N800
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:39 PM, João Marcelojmarcelo.alen...@gmail.com wrote: Helo Community, I've just bought a brand new nokia n800 tablet. It comes loaded with a old version of Maemo so I followed the instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware . I updated to the latest version, RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin using flasher-3.0. Everything worked just fine, the device rebooted. The problem happens when I single click the power button, the device mode menu appears and choose 'Lock touch screen and keys'. The screen is locked and I just can't unlock. When I click the power button again, a message asking me to press the central button appears. I click it, but the device doesn't unlock. The button seems to work with other applications, but it isn't something reliable, sometimes it doesn't work. The same can be said about all the other buttons, including the directional buttons, the return, menu and home buttons. Is it a hardware problem or by any chance is it related with software? I suspect that there is a software issue. I don't usually have any trouble unlocking the touch screen and keys, but I have a devil of a time unlocking the device with the numeric code if I shut it down while locked. I think that may be related to the piece of crap metalayer-crawler hogging 100% of the system resources for several minutes on bootup. Whose brilliant idea was it to design that process to run on startup with top priority, anyway? It should only run with a very low priority and allow other processes to run first. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Some buttons not working properly on N800
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 3:30 PM, João Marcelojmarcelo.alen...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Markwolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 6:39 PM, João Marcelojmarcelo.alen...@gmail.com wrote: Helo Community, I've just bought a brand new nokia n800 tablet. It comes loaded with a old version of Maemo so I followed the instructions on http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware . I updated to the latest version, RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin using flasher-3.0. Everything worked just fine, the device rebooted. The problem happens when I single click the power button, the device mode menu appears and choose 'Lock touch screen and keys'. The screen is locked and I just can't unlock. When I click the power button again, a message asking me to press the central button appears. I click it, but the device doesn't unlock. The button seems to work with other applications, but it isn't something reliable, sometimes it doesn't work. The same can be said about all the other buttons, including the directional buttons, the return, menu and home buttons. Is it a hardware problem or by any chance is it related with software? I suspect that there is a software issue. I don't usually have any trouble unlocking the touch screen and keys, but I have a devil of a time unlocking the device with the numeric code if I shut it down while locked. I think that may be related to the piece of crap metalayer-crawler hogging 100% of the system resources for several minutes on bootup. Whose brilliant idea was it to design that process to run on startup with top priority, anyway? It should only run with a very low priority and allow other processes to run first. suppose this is the reason. is there a way to edit the init scripts and change this process priority? this is a good explanation and also explains other strange behaviors. i'm starting to consider the idea that i'll have to learn with this. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=978 I haven't tried the solution yet myself - the details are pretty sketchy. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Some buttons not working properly on N800
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:26 PM, João Marcelojmarcelo.alen...@gmail.com wrote: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=978 I haven't tried the solution yet myself - the details are pretty sketchy. Mark the system does performs slightly better after the crawler patch. but the problem persists, cannot unlock the keys. the other buttons are more responsive while using another applications. but not i configured the ssh-server and i'm checking the dmesg while i click the button. i get a lot of these: EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled is it somehow related or a completely different beast? -- __ João Marcelo Uchôa de Alencar Computer Science BSc. jmarcelo.alencar(at)gmail.com http://simetriade.blogspot.com Linux User 398939 __ So I tried the CRAWLPATH variable patch and it didn't make any difference at all for me. After some digging I finally figured out that to keep the crawler from starting all you need to do is add exit 0 to the beginning of the file. That finally fixed the crawler problem for me. I sure wish somebody who understands all the implications would write a better and more explicit set of instructions. Back to your problem, though: I can't say that I really know what's going on, but it sure sounds to me like you've got a recorder app running in the background that's hijacking the button input and has some other problem that is preventing proper operation - maybe it isn't even fully loading properly. I would try looking through your process list and/or system logs for any obvious suspects. And with that I'll shut up. I'm trying to be helpful but I have to admit I'm in over my head. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application
I think the codes you are referring to are only available from a phone. Even if the N900 has full phone features, there are still likely to be different formats for each carrier as well as the codes and the information would have to be parsed from text messages, so it probably wouldn't be any simpler. In a way, using the Web pages might be better. It would probably allow for more features and more information than you could get from the codes. Mark On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Samer Azmysamer.a...@gmail.com wrote: I dont have a complete list of all of them I used to use it with Vodafone , it was *886# I think you need to digg and find them Sorry Good Luck Samer Azmy On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Andrea Grandi a.gra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, 2009/9/4 Samer Azmy samer.a...@gmail.com: hmmm there are some Carrier command that you can know the 3G consumption , credit reaming and so on why a login to carrier web, why dont you use those codes directly, I think that is easier I really didn't know about those codes. Could you please tell me where I can find modont have a come informations? Thanks! -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc -- __ http://geek2live.blogspot.com/ http://www.siteheed.com - You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha- - Meditate. Live purely. Be quiet. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. -- Buddha - There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man. The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self.-- Hindu proverb - Live Free or Die-Kernel The Canine- - Without music, life would be a mistake.- Nietzsche - He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is more than a king.-- John Milton - The best portion of a good man's life is the little, nameless,unremembered acts of kindness and love.-- William Wordsworth (1770-1850) English poet -- - The higher type of man clings to virtue, the lower type of man clings to material comfort. The higher type of man cherishes justice, the lower type of man cherishes the hope of favors to be received.-- Confucius (551-479 BC) Chinese Philosopher ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On 8/31/09, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: So, why are Visor PDAs dead then ? They're no more dead than the Commodore 64, the Amiga, BeOS, OS/2, OpenVMS, etc. So long as there's a niche user base, there will be niche developers. But don't expect there to be any huge advances in technology for any of those platforms -- though there are now several ethernet cards for the C64 that didn't exist 10-27 years ago. -Gary ...And even if you do consider them dead at this point, they still were produced and supported *far* longer by Handspring/Palm than the pitiful year or so that Nokia has produced and supported each of its tablets. That is even more inexcusable because the tablets are *much* closer to a desktop in power than the Visor and first several generations of Palms ever were, and the hardware has at least an order of magnitude more potential. A device that is only produced and supported for a year should be a tip-off to users, especially after the third occurrence. My N800 was only the second iteration and it hadn't yet stopped production when I bought mine, so I didn't have that history to consult. At this point, I've learned far too much about Nokia and their tablets to jump on the N9x0 bandwagon until at least 18 months after they come to market... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N800 etc.
On 8/29/09, Andre Klapper aklap...@openismus.com wrote: In contrast to you, some companies out there might not have unlimited human and financial resources to officially support every single computer language (like Java) that you currently favor. It's even their right to make such decisions (if this means losing some customers is another question). However, some companies (like Nokia) are kind enough to give interested third parties the freedom to port and install virtual machines for any other computer languages on their platform, while others aren't. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) Sigh... if you're not a fanboy, then any post is a rant or troll... It's utterly absurd to refer to Java in any form as an irrelevant and transient language. On the contrary, it is quite mature, and unlike *any* other language is as close to being cross-platform as possible. There is no valid excuse for not supporting it, and Nokia sticking their head in the sand and ignoring it would be a very serious mistake. As time goes on, we are headed for cloud computing and other technologies which require interoperability and exclude proprietary technology. Java is the future, and companies that ignore it sooner or later are going to find themselves ignored... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re:Java
On 8/30/09, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: No, you´re wrong. It´s a platform AND a language. Actually the truth is somewhere in between. It is technically just a language, but in order to achieve the goal of platform-independence (notice the terminology there?) it requires an appropriate VM to be installed on the target machine. It's really just a much more powerful version of the old high-level languages that required run-time interpreters like BASIC or the Windows scripting language. Technically, a platform is comprised of both hardware and hardware-specific OS software, so Java isn't really a platform, especially since the interpreter is necessarily different for each target machine hardware OS, making it impossible to point to any one setup and say that's the Java platform. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: I don't understand why that's such a big deal. all hardware gets tossed aside eventually. You could not be more wrong. I'm still using my Handspring Visor Deluxe every day because it does things that *no* other device can do, even 10 years after it came out. I'm still using my 12-year-old Garmin GPS III because it still works great, is totally waterproof, has ultra-long battery life, the display is very plain and clear regardless of lighting conditions and it does some things that some newer devices don't. The devices that get tossed aside are the ones that don't have any outstanding features and so the next thing that comes along easily displaces them. The issue with the Nokia tablets is that they have so much potential, but are only living up to a tiny fraction of it because Nokia isn't giving them the attention they deserve. If Nokia would get their heads out of their behinds and *finish* the OS and software, they would blow the iPhone and all other competition out of the water for years to come. But their half-hearted attempts (and the obvious me-too OS features of Freemantle instead of concentrating on the unique strengths of the tablets) just don't cut it. Mobile just happens more often than others because the development space is so fast. No, it's because most of the manufacturers are so busy trying to copy each other instead of making truly awesome devices that the market is flooded with mediocre, interchangeable devices instead of real competition. It's become a competition of style rather than features, so of course it's subject to fads and transient trends. If you want something that you can keep around for a while, get a big desktop. That probably has the longest shelf-life. Actually, desktops probably get replaced about as often as anything else, even though they are easiest to upgrade. It's really not economically sound to upgrade (or build your own) anymore because new ones are so cheap. Still, the N900 will be more-or-less open and hackable hardware just like the N800, so continued development of other platforms will be based upon hobbyist interest, just like everything else. K And, no offense to the hobbyist developers, but the fundamental platform never gets finished, never mind the software feature set. Hobbyists only have a certain amount of time and resources to contribute, and they have far less access to the fundamental hardware and OS features than the manufacturer. It's not reasonable, as either a manufacturer or user, to expect hobbyists to finish the product for you. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Not at all. The complaint I responded to was that Nokia would drop software updates for the N900 as soon as the next hardware came out, which it may or may not do. But it doesn't really matter because the tech moves so fast, older hardware just isn't useful anymore. Maybe the Visor is fine for you, but I no longer live in 1998 and require a bit more functionality from the portable electronics I carry around. That statement is patently untrue. The counterarguments are so obvious and plentiful that I'm not even going to start listing them. This is yet another classic example of Mark taking one comment and then turning it in a different direction to prove his point. Slinging mud is an obvious sign of someone who knows he's on the losing end of an argument. You can't defeat the facts or the logic, so you attack the character. Unfortunately, my character is irrelevant; my logic holds. Which you didn't because both my phone and my N800 can do everything the handspring visor can do. K Wrong. Neither your phone nor your N800 can be used as a consumer learning IR remote, with unlimited devices and commands, completely customizable screens, sophisticated macros and unlimited timers. (Frankly, not even the commercially available $2500.00 remotes can do any better.) Neither have the full PIM functionality, especially the tablet. Neither can be nearly as easily read outdoors in direct sunlight, or even in some artificial light. Neither has anything like the battery life, or cheap, universally available and easily replaceable batteries. Neither can be expanded with hardware modules. Certainly there are lots of things that your phone and tablet can do that the Visor can't, and their hardware's speed and power are much greater (but not more flexible), but the point here is that neither your phone nor your tablet has approached anything but a tiny portion of their potential, whereas the Visor's capability has been exploited to the nth degree. That's what makes your phone and tablet so easily replaceable (which you even said yourself). Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Kenneth Loafmankenn...@loafman.com wrote: booiiing wrote: 2009/8/25 Gary g...@eyetraxx.net: I wonder why they chose Windows over Linux. And suggesting that Sony is weak in the mobile device market is not only unprofessional, it's simply untrue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/technology/8219005.stm i say at most 3 months and maemo will be available for it :) that would be awesome! Wonder if Nokia will honor a refund if you swap to Maemo from Windows? ...Ken On a netbook you would be better off skipping both Windows and Maemo and going straight to Ubuntu (or kubuntu as I have). You get the full range of ubuntu apps with no interface issues and can set up the GUI any way you want: Gnome, KDE, Netbook Remix, and all the customizeability you could want. You also would have zero issues with development environment, etc. For me, the WiFi, bluetooth, webcam etc. all worked out of the box, as do the most important function keys. Don't bother with the special netbook kernel, it causes a lot more problems than it solves. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: There's a lot of talk that Nokia should release a Maemo netbook. Is there a working port of Maemo to Intel-based chips? I only know of the ARM version for the tablets. This was partially mentioned above, but I don't think enough weight has been given to the fact that Nokia has just within the past three months announced major partnerships with both Intel and Microsoft. I don't see it as surprising that a corporate-focused booklet would choose this platform. And remember, the N900 is coming out. The OS/2 comparison is interesting, and it may well be that Maemo stays firmly in the hobbyist arena. But i think we will see Maemo take a bigger role as the laptop and phone continue to merge into a new hybrid device (of which netbooks and internet tablets are early forays into this class of device. K If they put Maemo on a netbook then there's really no excuse for not backporting Freemantle to the N8x0 series. At least with the tablets the interface doesn't have to be completely replaced, only a few hardware drivers. And no, what works on a 4 screen is NOT appropriate for a 7 or larger screen and vice-versa. Frankly, I don't like the direction that GUIs are taking in general. Everybody is hopping on the Apple bandwagon of having to scroll through miles or pages of random icons instead of much quicker and more functional nested lists. Style over substance... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. It would be different in the same ways the Win7 booklet is different from other windows netbooks, basically styling and the GSM SIM card slot. not that that is unique, but it is distinguishable from most. K But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I wasn't even suggesting Nokia offer Linux as a purchase option, just as an after-purchase option for someone that wants it. Actually, they don't even need to install an OS on it. Just give it to me with an empty HDD and a more attractive price and I'll run with it. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: My N810 wont start anymore
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Keywan Najafi Tonekabonili...@prometoys.net wrote: Hi, few days ago I was working on my N810 with Diablo. The battery was low (1 hour) but the battery icon wasn't red yet. I had a problem with Connection Manager, so I decide to restart the device. I choose Switch off from the Power-Button-Menu. After the device was off I switched it on again. The Nokia-Logo appeared and the device start to boot, but after ca. 60% of the progress bar the display turned off and on again and it start to boot from beginning. This happened a few times and the reboot was on the exact same position of the progress bar. I couldn't turn it off. The power button didn't react. So I opened the cover and removed the battery and put it in again. I try to start, but there was the same behaviour again. I decide to wait, until I am at home. There I tried to charge the battery and put the power cord in the N810. The blue Nokia logo appeared. Then the device turned off again. Then on with the Nokia logo, off, on ... Sometimes the battery symbol appeared, but there was no animation or text about charging. It wasn't possible to try to boot anymore (from now no progress bar). I tried to put out the battery for the whole night and try it next morning again. Same behaviour. I tried the battery from a friends N810, but it didn't boot with this battery. I tried my battery in my friends N810, there was no problem. It seems that my N810 won't boot and won't charge. Any ideas what I can try? Thanks, Keywan -- Keywan Najafi Tonekaboni li...@prometoys.net I suspect that your internal flash is full. I think there's also at least one serious bug in the OS that causes this, but there's not much we can do about that. I've recently experienced these same issues with my N800, but was lucky enough to be able to get it to boot long enough to delete Navit, which was taking up a huge amount of space and wouldn't update because there wasn't enough room to download the update and have enough room to process it. Now that I have some room back on the internal flash, the tablet seems to be working much better. If you don't have a recent backup and don't want to risk losing data or go through the PITA of reinstalling everything from scratch after a reflash, try some patience. Start by removing the battery for at least 15 minutes, then reinstall it and plug in the charger. It might immediately start booting before you even touch the power button. Leave it alone, and even if it seems like it's frozen just wait. If it hasn't successfully booted in a couple of hours, start over. If you do eventually get a successful boot, try removing a few of the larger apps that you don't really need and see if that helps. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Cassio Gomesgome...@gmail.com wrote: I´m worried about the elder versions, like N8x0, that became very popular in Brazil. Will Maemo 5 support 'em and bring us more development teams, doin' basic useful stuff like a text editor and makin' N8x0 better? Now, I see it as a great gadget, but it´s too limited due the lack of softwares made especially for Maemo's. ___ Cássio Gomes de Alencar Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. No, and when Maemo X comes along, they'll be abandoning N900 owners just like they _already_ have N770 and N8x0 owners. Once they leave the factory, any further software development for the tablets is left up to the community... And The community is already abandoning Maemo in faver of Mer... The problem with FOSS (and especially open hardware) developers is that they can never make up their minds and stick with one thing long enough to actually finish it. The next great thing comes along and everybody jumps on that bandwagon. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Andrew Fleggand...@bleb.org wrote: Well, since Mer's based on Ubuntu, thousands of packags are only an apt-get away... This is propaganda and a myth. Sure, you may be able to _install_ apps from the Ubuntu repository, but whether they'll be usable on the device (or even run) is another story entirely. There are many reasons why porting is not a trivial process, and a program that works great on a PC monitor may not be usable at all on a tiny touchscreen, never mind the fundamental hardware issues. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: Looks very exciting. I remember telling on this very same list that what killed the Nxx tablet series was basically that it lacked a GSM radio, in other words, a phone. Hence the device didn't fit Nokia's product line, as the phone guys saw it as an odd device not a real phone and comparisons with UMPC were unfair. No, what killed the Nxx tablet series was the total lack of support, and some critical missing out-of-the-box software functionality. (Much of which I have to point out is being addressed with Maemo 5, but they are *very pointedly* not backporting it to the current tablets.) And I'm still hoping to see Java / JavaFX on these devices sooner rather than later, despite's Nokia's dealings with the Evil Empire of Redmondia... FC Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Andre Klapperaklap...@openismus.com wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 20.08.2009, 13:28 -0600 schrieb Mark: No, and when Maemo X comes along, they'll be abandoning N900 owners just like they _already_ have N770 and N8x0 owners. Once they leave the factory, any further software development for the tablets is left up to the community... What if Nokia is part of the community? andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) That's called a token. They may provide the servers and allow the use of their name, but that's not by any means a critical contribution, and most of their contributions to the community consist of you can't have that or we won't do that or you can't do that. They certainly haven't contributed any meaningful apps other than what comes in the box. Merely being a member of the community doesn't mean anything at all. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. This is a myth. I've run Java apps on ARM CPUs since I first used the HomePod internet radio/mp3 player FIVE YEARS ago. Heck, PalmOS on my Palm Centro with the IBM J9 VM runs Java ME apps just fine, including the GMail Java client. The Centro runs a ~ 300Mhz ARM9 based CPU. FC As with anything, it depends on the app. Sure, small, light apps designed for cellphones will run on anything. But real Java apps are quite different. I can assure you that the Java apps that run sluggishly on my current desktop workstation will not even begin to run on your Centro. That also goes for a lot of general Web content that is not specifically designed for phones. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Mark wrote: That's an excuse (and a poor one), not a reason. When they never get around to actually finishing the OS or software for the N9X0, you'll be hearing I told you so... Mobile processors are is going through upgrade cycles much faster than the desktop and server processor market. 1st and 2nd gen iPhone users can't record videos like the 3 GS -- why? It's probably a matter of changing a config file to allow it on older hardware but can it handle the workload well enough that it won't furstrate a few million end users? I can run Windows 7 on a seven year old DELL notebook but do you think can play the latest video games on it? Or even games from 5-7 years ago? Probably not. So if you'd like to develop your own Freemantle port for N8X0 and N700 tablets we can all help you QA your efforts and file lots of bugs for modern software that can't run efficiently on legacy hardware. -Gary ___ That's a straw-man fallacy. If an N800 can run real Debian (and it definitely can), then leaving it out of Freemantle is inexcusable. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Attila Csipama...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2009 23:23:16 Mark wrote: I personally am growing very weary of non-hot-swappable slots in devices. There really is no justification for that PITA. It's just one of many reasons I'll never give up my N800 for an N810. The N810 has a fully hot swappable slot, it will even automatically (un)mount the device if you open/close the microSD card lid. Let's see... one miniSDHC (not micro, meaning you need a micro- to miniSD adapter for it to really be useful) compared to - count 'em - two full-sized SDHC slots, both accessible without removing the battery... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking Java ME and JavaFX Mobile. Both of which are designed to run on smartphones. FC Yes, because they are lite versions, not real Java, and will only run the tiny apps written especially for them. But if you're happy with that limitation in a tablet, great. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Mark wrote: That's a straw-man fallacy. Have I somehow misrepresented your position? If not, then it's not a straw man argument or an informal fallacy. If you throw enough swap at an OS you can run anything but an I/O bound device is still bound whether it's portable or not. Unfortunately, virtual memory doesn't help much when it comes to graphics rendering. -Gary Any OS worth its salt works on _completely_ different graphics processors in the same machine. When I install a new graphics card in my PC, I don't have to install a completely new OS, I just install the new graphics driver. If the OS _requires_ sophisticated 3D just to do basic stuff, then it's _extremely_ poorly designed. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Attila Csipama...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Friday 21 August 2009 00:33:54 Mark wrote: Let's see... one miniSDHC (not micro, meaning you need a micro- to miniSD adapter for it to really be useful) compared to - count 'em - two full-sized SDHC slots, both accessible without removing the battery... Don't change subjects. You said one of the reasons you'll never give up your N800 for a N810 is because of its non-hot-swappable slot(s). The N810 has a fully hot-swappable slot, and it does not need the battery removed (or it's cover, for that matter) to swap cards. Say you prefer 2 slots over 1+1, full SD over micro/mini, that's OK, but don't imply or spread misinformation. I said _one_ reason. I never said the N810 wasn't hot-swappable (I knew perfectly well that it is), but because it is that uncommon and rapidly-fading miniSD format and only 1 slot, that alone is enough for me to give it a pass. I guess it wasn't clear the way I said it, because I started off talking about non-hot-swappable devices then went on to say why the N810 isn't an option for me. I didn't mean for it to seem like I was lumping the N810 in with that particular category. Another angle is that even if it is technically hot-swappable, if the slot isn't externally accessible without opening a major panel it's still a PITA. Yes, the N810 is still externally accessible and from the photos it appears so with the N900 as well, but many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Igor Stoppaigor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 01:38 +0200, ext Mark wrote: many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... for the very same reason why the SIM is located there in the vast majority (all?) of phones: to prevent hot swap and simplify its management. If you were to connect the battery somehow (wires?) so that the SIM could be swapped with the phone on, interesting things would happen. It also means that the products can be cheaper since there is no need for the extra sensor to detect the swap. Cheers, Igor Preventing SIM hot-swap is reasonable: how many people actually have a need to *ever* swap their SIM. The only time I've ever removed the SIM from my phone is when I've got a new phone and transferred the SIM. There's also a significant security aspect to SIM cards. But generic memory cards are an entirely different matter, especially with devices that can take and view photos and other media. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: spontaneous reboot while charging
Thanks Frantisek Mark. I'm cc'ing Rainer from the thread on maemo developers
since I'm not able to post there. (Rainer: see my post on maemo users for
context.) Any help, especially from Nokia devs, would be appreciated.
Charging is possible when device is booted normally to desktop {i.e. you
use it and then plug the charger in while it is on) or there is special
charging only mode when you plug in the charge when device is off. I'm
not sure which of those two ways of charging you use.
I guess those reboots happen in charging only mode but I am not sure. If
this is so, try to plug the charger in only when the device is turned on
to avoid that special charging only mode. If battery is low and device
turns itself off before fully booted, turn it on via power button and
plug the charger in immediatelly after screen lights up.
With the original factory battery, I usually charge when booted to the
desktop. It is in that mode that I see spontaneous reboots. The reboots happen
when the device is fully booted and happen approximately every few minutes
(a reboot takes maybe 20 to 30 seconds) and each reboot succeeds in getting
back to the desktop.
The reboots don't always happen. And I haven't figured out what situations
they happen in. I have a hunch that it might be related to email. I have a
WiFi access point at home and about the time the reboots started happening I
changed my setup to configure the N810 to automatically connect and
periodially fetch email (with the standard Chinook software from the standard
Chinook menus).
With the original battery, I sometimes, but rarely, charge when the device is
off (with the green LED and the white battery icon and the word Charging on
the black screen). That is usually successful but sometimes (but not always
and quite rarely) I have observed that the device will spontaneously boot when
in that device off charging mode.
With the newly purchased non-Nokia battery (Cameron Sino Technology Model No.
CS-NK4LSL Part No. BP-4L) , I have never been able to boot. I remove the
original factory battery, let charge drain for a minutes or so, insert the new
battery, and plug in the charger. The device does not go into charging
mode. The green LED does not come on and the white battery icon does not show
up. Instead, I get a white screen with a little grey 770 icon, the blue word
Nokia, and a grey wrench. That appears for a few seconds and then disappears
and then reappears. It flashes on and off at about a 1 or 2 second duty cycle
ten times and then eventually stops. (When I charge the original factory
battery in device off mode, after the white screen with the little grey 770
icon, the blue word Nokia, and the grey wrench appears for a second or two,
some green text appears with version numbers, and a blue progress indicator
appears along the bottom of the screen. It then switches to the blank screen,
with the small white battery icon and charging logo. With the non-Nokia
battery, I never get either, i.e. I never get beyond the first white screen
with the grey 770 icon and the grey wrench and it repeatedly flashes that
screen ten times before stopping.) When it stops, the screen is blank (no
white charging icon), it does not respond to any button presses (even the
power button), and there is no green LED. I have let it sit in that mode
overnight and it doesn't charge the battery.
I'd guess it is a software problem (and reflashing may help as a last
resort). Same problem was also discussed in thread N800 Power cycles
last month in maemo-developers.
Does this give any indication as to what is happening?
u...@oguguisicat /proc/bootreason
pwr_key
u...@oguguisils /var/lib/dsme/stats
32wd_to lifeguard_resetslifeguard_restarts sw_rst
u...@oguguisicat /var/lib/dsme/stats/32wd_to
5
u...@oguguisicat /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets
/usr/bin/Xomap -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 -wr -nolisten tcp : 1
/usr/bin/bme_RX-44 : 107 *
u...@oguguisicat /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts
/usr/bin/hildon-desktop : 8
/usr/bin/osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs : 1
/usr/bin/hildon-input-method : 5
/usr/sbin/ke-recv : 4 *
/usr/bin/esd : 6
/usr/sbin/multimediad : 6
/usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf : 6
/usr/bin/metalayer-crawler -F : 1
/usr/bin/matchbox-window-manager -theme default -use_titlebar yes
-use_desktop_mode plain -use_lowlight no -use_cursor yes -use_dialog_mode
static -use_super_modal yes : 1
/usr/bin/clipboard-manager : 1
u...@oguguisicat /var/lib/dsme/stats/sw_rst
128
u...@oguguisi
I've been having battery and charging issues with my N800 for a while
now, and have experienced the same symptoms you describe. I bought a
new genuine Nokia battery but it didn't make any difference. The most
annoying thing is that it stopped charging from anything but the
factory charger. I can't charge in the car (unless I use an inverter
with the factory charger
spontaneous reboot while charging
A few months ago, my N810 started spontaneously rebooting when it is plugged into the charger. I haven't updated any software on it in over a year and made no major configuration changes to it in over a year. It doesn't spontaneously reboot when not plugged in. When plugged in, it sometimes does and sometimes doesn't spontaneously reboot. When it does, it will go through several (about a half dozen) reboot cycles and then stop. It sometimes stops in a powered on state and sometimes stops in a powered off state. Separate from this, I have noticed some strange behavior of the battery charge indicator on the home screen. Often, it will indicate a full, or almost full charge, and then after a very brief period of use, switch to indicating a very low level of charge. Sometimes so low that it switches off. Then I plug it in and reboot and unplug and it indicates a full charge again after being plugged in only briefly. But this means that I can't reliably take it with me in my pocket and use it for several hours a day as I have done for much of the past year and a half. I thought that the battery might need replacement since it is the original battery from when I bought the N810 a year and a half ago. I purchased a non-Nokia battery that claimed to be compatible (BP-4L I think). When I put it in and plug the charger in, it always power cycles and begins a reboot about a half dozen times in a row (it doesn't finish the reboot before spontaneously power cycling) then eventually stops in a powered off state. The battery never charges. Any ideas? Should I try a new Nokia battery? Should I try a new charger? Is it likely a software problem or a hardware problem? Except for the charging/battery problem, it works as reliably as it has since I purchased it. I rely on my N810 as a pocketable laptop (with a bluetooth keyboard) on almost a daily basis. But I don't want to purchase a new one since I plan to purchase the N900/Rover when it comes out. Jeff (http://www.ece.purdue.edu/~qobi) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Android device coming soon from Nokia?
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Didier Courtauddidier.court...@cea.fr wrote: Jamie Bennett a écrit : On 7 Jul 2009, at 09:06, Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: Andrea Grandi a.gra...@gmail.com writes: I really would buy a Nokia phone with Android... Why Android and not Maemo? Maemo is better. Better in what sense? Android is just an encaptulation of Linux with Java To resume Android : No third party applications available Maemo : all Linux applications available DC Regards, Jamie. -- http://www.linuxuk.org That is a huge oversimplification of the situation, and your conclusion is absolutely false. There are lots of third party applications available for Android, and they are already opening up Android with SDK access to the underlying OS, not just java. ...And all Linux applications available is a flat-out lie. The overwhelming majority of them have to be ported - with considerable effort - in order to work on the small touchscreens, and *all* of them have to be recompiled for the architecture at the very least. It's not a matter of being able to just pick any random Linux application and immediately install it on your tablet. Plug and play it is NOT. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Android device coming soon from Nokia?
Yeah, well, Nokia has been denying a lot of things lately, and if they are really relying on Symbian for their smartphones they are guaranteeing failure in the long run. Symbian just doesn't have the flexibility or power necessary to be really competitive. Like PalmOS, it was great in its day, but the fundamental limitations are just too great. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Jonathan Greeneatmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: Nokia's denial - http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706 On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: This should be interesting... http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sqrya-hNKEmn5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=120437tid=34cat=technology ___ http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Android device coming soon from Nokia?
...which is exactly the worst attitude they could possibly have. It's that proprietary layer that's holding them back and making things difficult for the users of their devices as well as the developers. If they could get it through their thick heads that flexibility always wins over proprietary, they would get a lot closer to their goals. And if they really are trying to become a services company, that doesn't bode well for support for *any* Nokia devices, or even their services. Can you say, Psion?.. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Greeneatmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: I think Nokia would have to seriously differentiate if they went Android ... without a substantial custom layer, they risk being a hardware only player which goes against their desired evolution into a services company ... that said extending services onto other platforms would be a great idea. On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Andrea Grandia.gra...@gmail.com wrote: I really would buy a Nokia phone with Android... 2009/7/6 Mark wolfm...@gmail.com: Yeah, well, Nokia has been denying a lot of things lately, and if they are really relying on Symbian for their smartphones they are guaranteeing failure in the long run. Symbian just doesn't have the flexibility or power necessary to be really competitive. Like PalmOS, it was great in its day, but the fundamental limitations are just too great. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Jonathan Greeneatmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: Nokia's denial - http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706 On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: This should be interesting... http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sqrya-hNKEmn5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=120437tid=34cat=technology ___ http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Android device coming soon from Nokia?
Actually, Maemo is more likely than Android. For the previously stated reasons, Nokia wants to keep it proprietary. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Chris Vailchrisbv...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe Nokia's collaboration with Intel will run Android? --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Jonathan Greene atmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: From: Jonathan Greene atmasph...@atmasphere.net Subject: Re: Android device coming soon from Nokia? To: Mark wolfm...@gmail.com Cc: Maemo users maemo-users@maemo.org Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 8:23 AM preaching to the choir ... Look at how FriendView works - Nokia Only. Vs. Google Latitude - all platforms (iphone soon) and built into google maps. On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Markwolfm...@gmail.com wrote: ...which is exactly the worst attitude they could possibly have. It's that proprietary layer that's holding them back and making things difficult for the users of their devices as well as the developers. If they could get it through their thick heads that flexibility always wins over proprietary, they would get a lot closer to their goals. And if they really are trying to become a services company, that doesn't bode well for support for *any* Nokia devices, or even their services. Can you say, Psion?.. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Jonathan Greeneatmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: I think Nokia would have to seriously differentiate if they went Android ... without a substantial custom layer, they risk being a hardware only player which goes against their desired evolution into a services company ... that said extending services onto other platforms would be a great idea. On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Andrea Grandia.gra...@gmail.com wrote: I really would buy a Nokia phone with Android... 2009/7/6 Mark wolfm...@gmail.com: Yeah, well, Nokia has been denying a lot of things lately, and if they are really relying on Symbian for their smartphones they are guaranteeing failure in the long run. Symbian just doesn't have the flexibility or power necessary to be really competitive. Like PalmOS, it was great in its day, but the fundamental limitations are just too great. Mark On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Jonathan Greeneatmasph...@atmasphere.net wrote: Nokia's denial - http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706 On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: This should be interesting... http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sqrya-hNKEmn5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=120437tid=34cat=technology ___ http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- http://jonathangreene.tel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Rumor mill: Maemo 5 device
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Dr. Nicholas Shawd...@docharley.com wrote: I didn't write that. I believe that was in response to what I did write. :-) Nick. Sorry, in editing the quote in the interest of clarity and brevity I deleted the wrong line. Proper attribution would have been: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jean-Christian de Rivazj...@eclis.ch wrote: ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Rumor mill: Maemo 5 device
On 6/25/09, Jean-Christian de Rivaz j...@eclis.ch wrote: Dr. Nicholas Shaw a écrit : and a new task switching schema that allow the applications the be all the time full screen is also a very good point to efficiently use the screen. Actually, that already exists: press the Home button (bottom button on the front left side on the N800) while any application is full screen and a list of open apps pops up. Just click on the one you want to switch to. You can also close any of the apps in the list by clicking its X. I just tested with 6 open apps and it works fine, it just adds scroll buttons. Mark (Written on my N800 2500 miles from home.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Rumor mill: Maemo 5 device
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Quim Gilquim@nokia.com wrote: Hi, Maemo users interested in this thread will surely be interested in Intel and Nokia agreement on New tablets collaboration http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29825 and even Nokia launches a Netbook in 2011 ? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29816 -- Quim Gil open source advocate Maemo Devices @ Nokia One of the threads mentions an N900, which somebody has mentioned on this list before. I was curious, so I googled it. I would actually reconsider my previous stance and maybe even buy the N900 if the specs in these links are accurate: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/05/25/nokia-n900-rover-tablet-gets-pictured-specd/ http://www.craveonline.com/lifestyle/article/nokia-n900-79259 http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/05/24/exclusive-everything-there-is-to-know-about-nokias-next-tablet/ http://www.nokian900.com/nokia-n900-internet-tablet-rumors/#more-15 http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n900-rover-internet-tablet-details-leak-2644704/ However, $750 and and/or a smaller screen would be showstoppers for me. Also, at this point regular cellular voice would be a requirement for me. If they can't get the price to netbook levels or less, it's highly unlikely that a single soul will buy them. I think that's been the major issue with the tablets in the past: considering the features, the price is way above everybody's threshold until about the time the new model comes out, making the old one (depending on one's viewpoint) obsolete. ...but I strongly suspect that those leaked specs are all somebody's fantasy. And I think it's highly unlikely that it will be released in the next few weeks (they're saying July 2009), or even this summer. Next spring would be much easier to believe. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Rumor mill: Maemo 5 device
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Qoleqole.tab...@gmail.com wrote: Feel free to add your thoughts about the N900 rumours to the 1325+ posts on the N900 specs revealed thread over on talk.maemo.org. Every tiny detail about the leak has been discussed for pages and pages, including possible price, screen size, dpad (or lack thereof), keyboard, phone capability (or lack thereof), interspersed with hundreds of posts saying, Wow, Nokia! It's about time! or How could you, Nokia! I'll never buy one! There's even a couple cameo appearances by Nokia employees! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29151 So can somebody just answer one reasonable question: When will a Maemo 5 device be announced? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Rumor mill: Maemo 5 device
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Peter Flynn peter.fl...@mars.ucc.ie wrote: Mark wrote: Also, at this point regular cellular voice would be a requirement for me. I'd rather not. I already have a perfectly working phone, and I don't want to combine phone and PDA: you look such a prat trying to work a Many of the points made are good ones, but to each his own on this one. Personally, I am 100% behind convergence for my pocket devices. I don't want to carry more than one. I may look like a prat with my microphone-equipped earbuds plugged into my phone, but no more than any other person listening to music, or really anyone walking down the street with one hand held against their head. These days, those people look stranger to me than ones that have their hands free. I'm going to backpedal: I could live without voice if the price were reasonable enough. However, I probably will only be able to afford a subsidized model. Hopefully once the contract was over it could be unlocked. Regardless, as long as it could be tethered to a(nother) phone it's probably not much of an issue for me. ...but I strongly suspect that those leaked specs are all somebody's fantasy. I think the GPS and accelerometer probably are. I doubt it. The N810 already has GPS in it, and Nokia is shipping both of these items (and more) with devices that are fully subsidized. Those are actually the features most likely to be real. Voice is probably the least likely, along with the 5 MP camera. I wouldn't want the N900 to only come as a subsidized option, but I would like to see it in both subsdized (carrier-tied) models and fully open ones. Choice is always good. K -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info Hope springs eternal, I guess. I'm just hoping the IT form factor isn't dead and that new devices will mostly be more powerful along with only a couple of added features. I still prefer the two full-sized SD slots over the physical keyboard, but I suppose I'm enough in the minority that there will never be an actual N800 replacement. I guess the reason I found this so interesting is because the previous talk led me to believe that there would be no more actual IT devices from Nokia, only smartphones and iPod Touch-like devices. Sorry for wasting bandwidth on something that has apparently been overly-well discussed on talk.maemo.org. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
