Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Was typing mine before I read this Paul, maybe respond later, brain hurts. Sent from my iPhone On 27 Jun 2015, at 13:50, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Rich, With the pressbook I was thinking more of the distributor name on the pressbook itself. Poster images may help as well, but as you say, more of a guideline, since they might not have finalised every single detail before compiling the pressbook, and it might not be an exact copy anyway. Ref Sound Barrier quad. I’m trying to avoid muddying the issue by including quads, as the domestic and international distributors are often different. Who produced and distributed what and where within the UK is a whole different thread! My argument is that British One Sheets do at least seem consistent with their display of the London logo. And of course we already have an example of a Third Man one sheet with a London logo – the “domestic” one. I’m wary of calling it “domestic”, as I wouldn’t rule it out being for both domestic and international use. Yes, the censor rating led me to think first of all it could well be a domestic-only variant, but there are plenty of examples of British posters with a censor rating being used abroad. Again, that’s probably another controversial thread! Ultimately, though, yes I agree with your point - the issue is of any sort of credit, whether logo or written. If I weren’t expecting to see the London logo on the contested poster, I’d expect “London Films International” not “Lion International”! Which poster are you linking to Bob Brooks? I think the answer is no anyway, unless it came to me via someone else. Rolled British one sheets from that era. I avoided mentioning that in my “evidence” deliberately. Bruce is right to bring it up as a red flag in combination with everything else, but there are examples of rolled one sheets from the 40s and early 50s, as well as other formats: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19036/lot/22 My Gone To Earth is also rolled, so if I’ve got one, the chances are there are others for various titles in private collections. Canada. Who cares about Canada? :) Seriously though, maybe they operated through their New York office for the whole of North America? That’s just wild speculation though, so I’ll leave that for you to investigate! Woolf / African Queen. I’m not terribly convinced by what I can make out of Harris and Threadgall’s books if you’re referring back to the reply you sent me earlier. I think you’re right that Harris may have “borrowed” from Threadgall’s book – both sentences are very similar. Harris writes: “John and James Woolf formed Romulus Films as a holding company for a new distribution company called Independent Film Distributors (IFD), which distributed its films through British Lion and Lion International overseas.” Threadgall writes: “In 1948 he left to form Romulus Films as a holding company for a new film distribution company, Independent Film Distributors (IFD), which distributed its films through British Lion and Lion International overseas.” I think Threadgall may just have been generalising based on future events, though, as he later says “Then in September 1955 Lion International Films was formed under the joint ownership of British Lion Films and Independent Film Distributors Ltd, to handle overseas distribution of those companies’ films.” Why no Lion International credit on the African Queen GB one sheet? I have to admit I’m trying to read those books via Google Books snippets and extracts, though, so it might help to look at the whole thing! Also I’m aiming to concentrate on contemporary (to the 1950s) documents to avoid errors due to the vagaries of time. As for print quality on original vs re-release, how about these two likely contenders? http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=14918764 http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=4489657 I’m just kidding of course… Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 26/06/2015 20:22:35 GMT Daylight Time, evan...@me.com writes: Downloading Criterion Third Man, though someone may well have it here before it comes down the pipe. Observation on press books, images of the posters aren’t always accurate for detail, more of a ballpark. (No London logo on press book image of Sound Barrier quad.) Actual Tales of Hoffman quad no logo, but more importantly, written credit. Isn’t that more the issue, no credit at all, rather than lack of logo? Paul, is your copy the one Bob Brooks sold by any chance? Wondering about numbers. As far as the issue of these being rolled, weren’t posters shipped abroad in tubes? Thought that the reason why the Peeping Tom quad cache are lacking the usual number of folds. Sent rolled and subsequently folded. Talking about Canada, where’s that on
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Exactly. As has been proved in this thread, there was a public announcement when 'Lion Films International' was formed in September 1955. To me, it is entirely out of the question that this name could've been used anytime before this date. Helmut I think Threadgall may just have been generalising based on future events, though, as he later says “Then in September 1955 Lion International Films was formed under the joint ownership of British Lion Films and Independent Film Distributors Ltd, to handle overseas distribution of those companies’ films.” Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Rich, With the pressbook I was thinking more of the distributor name on the pressbook itself. Poster images may help as well, but as you say, more of a guideline, since they might not have finalised every single detail before compiling the pressbook, and it might not be an exact copy anyway. Ref Sound Barrier quad. I’m trying to avoid muddying the issue by including quads, as the domestic and international distributors are often different. Who produced and distributed what and where within the UK is a whole different thread! My argument is that British One Sheets do at least seem consistent with their display of the London logo. And of course we already have an example of a Third Man one sheet with a London logo – the “domestic” one. I’m wary of calling it “domestic”, as I wouldn’t rule it out being for both domestic and international use. Yes, the censor rating led me to think first of all it could well be a domestic-only variant, but there are plenty of examples of British posters with a censor rating being used abroad. Again, that’s probably another controversial thread! Ultimately, though, yes I agree with your point - the issue is of any sort of credit, whether logo or written. If I weren’t expecting to see the London logo on the contested poster, I’d expect “London Films International” not “Lion International” ! Which poster are you linking to Bob Brooks? I think the answer is no anyway, unless it came to me via someone else. Rolled British one sheets from that era. I avoided mentioning that in my “ evidence” deliberately. Bruce is right to bring it up as a red flag in combination with everything else, but there are examples of rolled one sheets from the 40s and early 50s, as well as other formats: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19036/lot/22 My Gone To Earth is also rolled, so if I’ve got one, the chances are there are others for various titles in private collections. Canada. Who cares about Canada? :) Seriously though, maybe they operated through their New York office for the whole of North America? That’s just wild speculation though, so I’ll leave that for you to investigate! Woolf / African Queen. I’m not terribly convinced by what I can make out of Harris and Threadgall’s books if you’re referring back to the reply you sent me earlier. I think you’re right that Harris may have “borrowed” from Threadgall’s book – both sentences are very similar. Harris writes: “John and James Woolf formed Romulus Films as a holding company for a new distribution company called Independent Film Distributors (IFD), which distributed its films through British Lion and Lion International overseas.” Threadgall writes: “In 1948 he left to form Romulus Films as a holding company for a new film distribution company, Independent Film Distributors (IFD), which distributed its films through British Lion and Lion International overseas.” I think Threadgall may just have been generalising based on future events, though, as he later says “Then in September 1955 Lion International Films was formed under the joint ownership of British Lion Films and Independent Film Distributors Ltd, to handle overseas distribution of those companies’ films.” Why no Lion International credit on the African Queen GB one sheet? I have to admit I’m trying to read those books via Google Books snippets and extracts, though, so it might help to look at the whole thing! Also I’m aiming to concentrate on contemporary (to the 1950s) documents to avoid errors due to the vagaries of time. As for print quality on original vs re-release, how about these two likely contenders? http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=14918764 http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=4489657 I’m just kidding of course… Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 26/06/2015 20:22:35 GMT Daylight Time, evan...@me.com writes: Downloading Criterion Third Man, though someone may well have it here before it comes down the pipe. Observation on press books, images of the posters aren’t always accurate for detail, more of a ballpark. (No London logo on press book image of Sound Barrier quad.) Actual Tales of Hoffman quad no logo, but more importantly, written credit. Isn’t that more the issue, no credit at all, rather than lack of logo? Paul, is your copy the one Bob Brooks sold by any chance? Wondering about numbers. As far as the issue of these being rolled, weren’t posters shipped abroad in tubes? Thought that the reason why the Peeping Tom quad cache are lacking the usual number of folds. Sent rolled and subsequently folded. Talking about Canada, where’s that on the list in that Sound Barrier pressbook? I love this kind of hardcore poster mystery, sick. I’m stuck on print quality and similarity to domestic first
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Neither the quad, 3-sht, domestic 1-sht or International are offset, they're
hand drawn/stone litho.
The disputed International is different plates to domestic 1-sht.
My understanding is they reused those plates (for different posters.)
So if saved (for 6+ years) what were created for originally?
Nothing proved as yet.
Finding no proof that a Lion International didn't exist in 49-50 doesn't amount
to proving it didn't exist.
If IFD using Lion International for African Queen is false then who did they
use? Lion's network though it wasn't using the name Lion International anywhere
for its international network?
The usage of London films logo issue are theories. I can't see how this is set
in stone ('scuise the pun), without allowance for printer error or
International issues. (Obviously no mention of London Films on US paper).
Besides logo doesn't always appear on quads.
Greg Edwards put a serious question mark over it being a RR, too much to be
dismissed in my opinion.
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Jun 2015, at 12:58, Helmut Hamm texasmu...@web.de wrote:
David,
just curious: At this point, do you have any doubt that this poster was
printed in 1955 or later? In my view, it has been proven beyond a reasonable
doubt that the production company listed on the Bidll poster did not exist
before 1955.
Also, back in the days, rent was cheap, but the plates, films and everything
else required for offset printing was very expensive, so these things
would've most likely been saved, at least as long as the movie was still in
distribution.
Helmut
I know the owner (who has followed this thread closely) has been extremely
appreciative of everyone's input (and I can't emphasise that enough) as am
I, it has been a remarkable journey and most have participated simply with a
desire to seek the true facts rather than tear holes and criticise and for
that I thank you - personally, I remain in the camp of an original release
for overseas distribution.
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Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
David, just curious: At this point, do you have any doubt that this poster was printed in 1955 or later? In my view, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the production company listed on the Bidll poster did not exist before 1955. Also, back in the days, rent was cheap, but the plates, films and everything else required for offset printing was very expensive, so these things would've most likely been saved, at least as long as the movie was still in distribution. Helmut I know the owner (who has followed this thread closely) has been extremely appreciative of everyone's input (and I can't emphasise that enough) as am I, it has been a remarkable journey and most have participated simply with a desire to seek the true facts rather than tear holes and criticise and for that I thank you - personally, I remain in the camp of an original release for overseas distribution. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I’d just like to say I’m impressed by the research capabilities of MOPO as a group. Fun to see folks working together on something they love. It unleashes genius. Alan Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Indeed, it's been a blast, it never ceases to amaze me the depth of knowledge of so many who are willing to share it too. That said, it will be good when it is all over and we can go back to the adverts. :P regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Alan Adler wrote on 28/06/2015 9:16 AM: I’d just like to say I’m impressed by the research capabilities of MOPO as a group. Fun to see folks working together on something they love. It unleashes genius. Alan To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
The same number B.L. 838 can be seen on the domestic onesheet sold by Heritage. Fact remains that the distributor of the Bidll poster did not exist before 1955, so it seems that the original plates were edited and re-used for this poster. IF the Bidll poster had indeed been printed in 1949, it would have to show a different number, no? Helmut www.filmposter.net The number at the bottom of this The Third Man UK poster currently listed on BIDLL http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 is B.L. 838 regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com http://bidll.com/ for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll https://twitter.com/bidll http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com/ evan...@mac.com mailto:evan...@mac.com wrote on 26/06/2015 1:28 AM: Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/1108/rare-english-one-sheet-the-third-man/p1) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'. he also said: The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering). I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com http://bidll.com/ for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll https://twitter.com/bidll http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com/ To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I'm pretty certain they didn't reuse the original plates. While obviously very similar, it's a different rendering. Other than changes to text, if you look at the detail the images are illustrated differently throughout. Subtle, but the variances can't be down to differences caused by separate print runs. On 26 Jun 2015, at 15:31, Helmut Hamm wrote: The same number B.L. 838 can be seen on the domestic onesheet sold by Heritage. Fact remains that the distributor of the Bidll poster did not exist before 1955, so it seems that the original plates were edited and re-used for this poster. IF the Bidll poster had indeed been printed in 1949, it would have to show a different number, no? Helmut www.filmposter.net The number at the bottom of this The Third Man UK poster currently listed on BIDLL is B.L. 838 regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors evan...@mac.com wrote on 26/06/2015 1:28 AM: Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'. he also said: The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering). I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Did Greg give any indication of what the number might look like if it were a re-release? Would Stafford Co issue a new one (or blank it out)? I hate to differ from Greg, as he obviously has a load of experience in this area. I bought some of my first posters from him all those years ago, and he has virtually god-like status in my eyes, but the more I look into this, the more I’m sure it’s a re-release. With him not being on the forum, it’s difficult to know whether he’s studied this in any detail or is just trying to help out with guidelines. To show how relentlessly objective I’m trying to be, I do actually have one of these posters in my personal collection. It came from Christies in 1997 back in the days when I had a proper job, money … and life outside the house! It may not end up being in my own best interests, but I’d prefer to nail down the true history behind it. It’s a great poster for a great film regardless of release date and I can’t see myself ever parting with it. OK that’s the sanctimonious bit out of the way and here’s the poster: http://s811.photobucket.com/user/movieposterstudio/media/ThirdManGB1.jpg.htm l?sort=3o=0 (I’ve added Clanger toy propping up business card so you know I’m not bluffing and didn’t just lift a random image from somewhere else!) I was originally hoping this topic would be resolved long ago without having to wheel the poster out and extract it from its frame, but here we go. In the cause of pseudo-science, I’ve compared it to other British one sheets from the period. Unusually, I found that the three I own from 1950 or before (End of River/Elusive Pimpernel/Gone To Earth), all printed by Stafford, all have rough fronts and smooth backs. I also have a Tales Of Hoffmann from 1951, which appears to have a rough front too, but is linenbacked so I can’t be sure it’s not due to the backing process. Can you tell I’m a Powell Pressburger fan? The Third Man on the other hand has a smooth front and rough back, as do two later Staffords from 1956 (Green Man/Three Men In A Boat). Five other British one sheets dating from 1952 to 1957 printed by WE Berry all have a smooth front and rough back. Make of that what you will. It’s not going to be definitive, since I’ll never have a full run of Stafford one sheets and it might be a coincidence down to different printer plants etc. By contrast all the Stafford quads I have over the entire period in question all have a smooth front and rough back. As you know, the real sticking point for me is Lion International apparently replacing the London logo. The evidence seems overwhelming, at least to me: 1. A company called Lion International was formed in 1955. 2. I can’t find a single contemporary reference to a company with the name Lion International BEFORE 1955 on posters, pressbooks, trade advertising, film archives, or searches. Only London Films International. And I’ve LOOKED. (BTW a large number of emovie’s UK pressbooks seem to be export/international ones.) 3. Lion International only seems to appear on posters after 1955. 4. The Third Man was distributed in Australia by London Films International, according to David’s 1950 Sydney Morning Herald clipping. 5. The Kinematograph UK trade yearbook for 1950 lists a director for London Films International. Nothing for Lion International. 6. The London logo appears on all British One Sheets I can find for London productions (I think as international distributor rather than producer, as they also distributed other companies' productions). Except our mysterious Third Man one. 7. My brain hurts. Anyway, this is my opinion. This subject has been very lively and has probably distracted attention away from things like Morris Everett’s auction – an absolute must-see with some unbelievable items - so I’ll leave it there. I have to say David that the way you’ve handled this matter has been exemplary and very good-natured, and I hope you don’t feel like a battered ping pong ball by now! Almost forgot – DOES ANYBODY OUT THERE HAVE A CRITERION 2-DISC THIRD MAN DVD OR BLU-RAY? If so, one of the extras is apparently a slideshow of the original UK pressbook. If it’s an export/international pressbook similar to this http://www.emovieposter.com/gallery/inc/archive_image.php?id=9865400 (spot the odd poster out) or a combined one, it might just provide a conclusive answer. Unless it’s a re-release pressbook of course… (; Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com/) In a message dated 25/06/2015 11:45:09 GMT Daylight Time, da...@bidll.com writes: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on _Vintage Movie Posters Forum_ (http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/1108/rare-english-one-sheet-the-third-man/p1) ) -
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Indeed, Richard. As was discussed prior, the art of the bidll piece is not the same as the HA '49 copy. The are 2 different critters. On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Richard C Evans wrote: I'm pretty certain they didn't reuse the original plates. While obviously very similar, it's a different rendering. Other than changes to text, if you look at the detail the images are illustrated differently throughout. Subtle, but the variances can't be down to differences caused by separate print runs. On 26 Jun 2015, at 15:31, Helmut Hamm wrote: The same number B.L. 838 can be seen on the domestic onesheet sold by Heritage. Fact remains that the distributor of the Bidll poster did not exist before 1955, so it seems that the original plates were edited and re-used for this poster. IF the Bidll poster had indeed been printed in 1949, it would have to show a different number, no? Helmut www.filmposter.net The number at the bottom of this The Third Man UK poster currently listed on BIDLL is B.L. 838 regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors evan...@mac.com wrote on 26/06/2015 1:28 AM: Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'. he also said: The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering). I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Unfortunately I have not heard back from Greg as yet to my follow up email where I asked about the (actual) number on this poster or his opinion on the re-release question, I do not know him at all so could not be too forward in chasing him up. I did provide him with a link to the MoPo conversation in my original email, I can only presume he read (some of) it. I think ultimately this poster (and those others _exactly_ like it) will leave two camps completely divided, and certainly on the face of it there is logic for both sides. What has been great(?!) is we all now know there are three (UK1SH) posters for this title whereas previously we lead to believe there was two; obviously I am saddened for those who have now discovered their original is now not so original, but try being a daybill collector, we walk that path almost daily! I know the owner (who has followed this thread closely) has been extremely appreciative of everyone's input (and I can't emphasise that enough) as am I, it has been a remarkable journey and most have participated simply with a desire to seek the true facts rather than tear holes and criticise and for that I thank you - personally, I remain in the camp of an original release for overseas distribution. But unless anything new is uncovered I guess we are all talked out. The owner has decided to leave the poster as is on BIDLL http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 and after all this if it doesn't sell he will frame it and put it on his wall where it will take pride of place and come with a quite remarkable story. Either way, it's a hell of a rare poster. kind regards to all *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Paul Gerrard wrote on 27/06/2015 4:01 AM: Did Greg give any indication of what the number might look like if it were a re-release? Would Stafford Co issue a new one (or blank it out)? I hate to differ from Greg, as he obviously has a load of experience in this area. I bought some of my first posters from him all those years ago, and he has virtually god-like status in my eyes, but the more I look into this, the more I’m sure it’s a re-release. With him not being on the forum, it’s difficult to know whether he’s studied this in any detail or is just trying to help out with guidelines. To show how relentlessly objective I’m trying to be, I do actually have one of these posters in my personal collection. It came from Christies in 1997 back in the days when I had a proper job, money … and life outside the house! It may not end up being in my own best interests, but I’d prefer to nail down the true history behind it. It’s a great poster for a great film regardless of release date and I can’t see myself ever parting with it. OK that’s the sanctimonious bit out of the way and here’s the poster: http://s811.photobucket.com/user/movieposterstudio/media/ThirdManGB1.jpg.html?sort=3o=0 (I’ve added Clanger toy propping up business card so you know I’m not bluffing and didn’t just lift a random image from somewhere else!) I was originally hoping this topic would be resolved long ago without having to wheel the poster out and extract it from its frame, but here we go. In the cause of pseudo-science, I’ve compared it to other British one sheets from the period. Unusually, I found that the three I own from 1950 or before (End of River/Elusive Pimpernel/Gone To Earth), all printed by Stafford, all have rough fronts and smooth backs. I also have a Tales Of Hoffmann from 1951, which appears to have a rough front too, but is linenbacked so I can’t be sure it’s not due to the backing process. Can you tell I’m a Powell Pressburger fan? The Third Man on the other hand has a smooth front and rough back, as do two later Staffords from 1956 (Green Man/Three Men In A Boat). Five other British one sheets dating from 1952 to 1957 printed by WE Berryall have a smooth front and rough back. Make of that what you will. It’s not going to be definitive, since I’ll never have a full run of Staffordone sheets and it might be a coincidence down to different printer plants etc. By contrast all the Staffordquads I have over the entire period in question all have a smooth front and rough back. As you know, the real sticking point for me is Lion International apparently replacing the Londonlogo. The evidence seems overwhelming, at least to me: 1. A company called Lion International was formed in 1955. 2. I can’t find a single contemporary reference to a company with the name Lion International BEFORE 1955 on posters, pressbooks, trade advertising, film archives, or searches. Only LondonFilms International. And I’ve LOOKED. (BTW a large number of emovie’s UKpressbooks seem to be export/international ones.) 3. Lion
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Well said, Helmut. Points are worth pondering. And the omitted (deleted) production /London Film Co, logo and name (the text at the top of the poster) still makes no sense, were it from the 1st release --- international / territory release or not. Questions, questions, that's for sure. Jeff On Jun 26, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Helmut Hamm wrote: The same number B.L. 838 can be seen on the domestic onesheet sold by Heritage. Fact remains that the distributor of the Bidll poster did not exist before 1955, so it seems that the original plates were edited and re-used for this poster. IF the Bidll poster had indeed been printed in 1949, it would have to show a different number, no? Helmut www.filmposter.net The number at the bottom of this The Third Man UK poster currently listed on BIDLL is B.L. 838 regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors evan...@mac.com wrote on 26/06/2015 1:28 AM: Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'. he also said: The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering). I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/1108/rare-english-one-sheet-the-third-man/p1) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: /As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'.// / he also said: /The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering)./ I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Is there a like button for this post:)SimonSentfrommyBlackBerry10smartphone.From: David RewSent: Thursday, 25 June 2015 11:45To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUReply To: David RewSubject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: "As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'." he also said: "The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering)." I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'. he also said: The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering). I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Well said, David K. As was noted prior, also,.. the missing London Films logo in the lower right corner, is also a potential real indicator/flag that the bidll copy is a later RR. There would be no reason to remove the logo of the production company that produced/made the film, and replace it with a distributor's name. This, tho, has been seen on many a RR poster, COO notwithstanding. (Realart's later distribution of many of Universal's horror titles being but one example of this). On Jun 24, 2015, at 11:13 PM, David Kusumoto wrote: I just read the string of posts since I posted mine two days ago. Thanks for the public comments from Jeff Potokar and Phillipp Kainbacher - (and from Bruce H. via Jeff) - and from others who privately wrote me about this. And Phillipp, congratulations for getting a happy resolution from Grey. He's a good man. -d. P.S. - As for the rolled Third Man poster being offered at Bidll - what stands out in Bruce H.'s comments - is his opinion that a rolled (vs. folded) 1949 international one-sheet - seems unusual. I will say the colors and detail in the Bidll poster are more vivid than the re-issue 1950s poster I bought in 2003 that was mistakenly represented as original. I think if a buyer likes the image and can live with everything else about it, it's still a fine poster from a great movie. (See web-hosted images again below to compare.) The Third Man 1950s international re-issue one-sheet, Heritage, November 2003: The Third Man (?) international one-sheet, Bidll, June 2015: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:39:11 PST From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Yes Jeff from today's conversation. Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:56:35 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Was that offered refund a result of this 2015 conversation, Phillipp? Good for you, if so. That's what discussion and collecting is all about. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 20:41:38 -0700 From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I would like to inform that Grey has immediately offered to refund the money for the Third Man poster. I have been dealing with Grey since day one of his auctions buying and selling posters. Philipp Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:45:54 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution. There is also re-release one-sheet which is very similar to the African Queen one (no printing on the bottom), and I would think both that and the African Queen are from the late 1950s or early 1960s. The reason the poster was entered incorrectly in our database was that we never auctioned it. It is one of the tens of thousands of posters that Richard Allen owned
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
No discounting at all... all are parts/pieces of the same puzzle. On Jun 25, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Richard C Evans wrote: You're completely discounting Greg Edwards' input based on perceived logic and patterns of behaviour? I think you'd need to explain why the number is right for first release (even if counter to reason) when it should from your standpoint be a post 55 code. Sent from my iPhone On 25 Jun 2015, at 18:34, Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com wrote: Well said, David K. As was noted prior, also,.. the missing London Films logo in the lower right corner, is also a potential real indicator/flag that the bidll copy is a later RR. There would be no reason to remove the logo of the production company that produced/made the film, and replace it with a distributor's name. This, tho, has been seen on many a RR poster, COO notwithstanding. (Realart's later distribution of many of Universal's horror titles being but one example of this). On Jun 24, 2015, at 11:13 PM, David Kusumoto wrote: I just read the string of posts since I posted mine two days ago. Thanks for the public comments from Jeff Potokar and Phillipp Kainbacher - (and from Bruce H. via Jeff) - and from others who privately wrote me about this. And Phillipp, congratulations for getting a happy resolution from Grey. He's a good man. -d. P.S. - As for the rolled Third Man poster being offered at Bidll - what stands out in Bruce H.'s comments - is his opinion that a rolled (vs. folded) 1949 international one-sheet - seems unusual. I will say the colors and detail in the Bidll poster are more vivid than the re-issue 1950s poster I bought in 2003 that was mistakenly represented as original. I think if a buyer likes the image and can live with everything else about it, it's still a fine poster from a great movie. (See web-hosted images again below to compare.) The Third Man 1950s international re-issue one-sheet, Heritage, November 2003: The Third Man (?) international one-sheet, Bidll, June 2015: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:39:11 PST From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Yes Jeff from today's conversation. Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:56:35 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Was that offered refund a result of this 2015 conversation, Phillipp? Good for you, if so. That's what discussion and collecting is all about. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 20:41:38 -0700 From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I would like to inform that Grey has immediately offered to refund the money for the Third Man poster. I have been dealing with Grey since day one of his auctions buying and selling posters. Philipp Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:45:54 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
You're completely discounting Greg Edwards' input based on perceived logic and patterns of behaviour? I think you'd need to explain why the number is right for first release (even if counter to reason) when it should from your standpoint be a post 55 code. Sent from my iPhone On 25 Jun 2015, at 18:34, Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com wrote: Well said, David K. As was noted prior, also,.. the missing London Films logo in the lower right corner, is also a potential real indicator/flag that the bidll copy is a later RR. There would be no reason to remove the logo of the production company that produced/made the film, and replace it with a distributor's name. This, tho, has been seen on many a RR poster, COO notwithstanding. (Realart's later distribution of many of Universal's horror titles being but one example of this). On Jun 24, 2015, at 11:13 PM, David Kusumoto wrote: I just read the string of posts since I posted mine two days ago. Thanks for the public comments from Jeff Potokar and Phillipp Kainbacher - (and from Bruce H. via Jeff) - and from others who privately wrote me about this. And Phillipp, congratulations for getting a happy resolution from Grey. He's a good man. -d. P.S. - As for the rolled Third Man poster being offered at Bidll - what stands out in Bruce H.'s comments - is his opinion that a rolled (vs. folded) 1949 international one-sheet - seems unusual. I will say the colors and detail in the Bidll poster are more vivid than the re-issue 1950s poster I bought in 2003 that was mistakenly represented as original. I think if a buyer likes the image and can live with everything else about it, it's still a fine poster from a great movie. (See web-hosted images again below to compare.) The Third Man 1950s international re-issue one-sheet, Heritage, November 2003: The Third Man (?) international one-sheet, Bidll, June 2015: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:39:11 PST From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Yes Jeff from today's conversation. Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:56:35 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Was that offered refund a result of this 2015 conversation, Phillipp? Good for you, if so. That's what discussion and collecting is all about. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 20:41:38 -0700 From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I would like to inform that Grey has immediately offered to refund the money for the Third Man poster. I have been dealing with Grey since day one of his auctions buying and selling posters. Philipp Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:45:54 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
The number at the bottom of this The Third Man UK poster currently listed on BIDLL http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 is *B.L. 838* regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com evan...@mac.com wrote on 26/06/2015 1:28 AM: Phew, the cavalry arrived. Quad is B.L. 833. I believe rather than 49, release year for Third Man was 50. BIDL looks to be B.L. (three figures). Game still on. Phew, almost waved the white flag last night after the Big Bruce email. On 25 Jun 2015, at 11:44, David Rew wrote: Just had an email back from Greg Edwards in the UK (Rare Film Posters), who I asked after a suggestion from John Reid and Vesna (from the thread on Vintage Movie Posters Forum http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/1108/rare-english-one-sheet-the-third-man/p1) - I told him the queries and pointed him to the MoPo thread. He kindly proved an answer very quickly, and I quote: /As the film was released in 1949 any original poster would have a 4 figure number in the bottom right corner which should start with a '9' and end in an 'A'. If the poster is from 1950-51 it would have a 3 figure number but with no 'A'. From some time in 1952 onwards it would be a 4 figure number, also with no 'A'.// / he also said: /The artwork is identical to the British quad. The British Film Institute have a copy which I have attached for you (unfortunately not big enough to check the numbering)./ I bet you are all rushing off to see what the BIDLL one says, I know and...whoops, it's my dinner time. Talk soon. ;) regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com/ To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Davidthanks my friend...Grey is a great man I agree. We had some funny interesting times looking back! Philipp Sent from my iPhone On Jun 24, 2015, at 11:13 PM, David Kusumoto davidmkusum...@hotmail.com wrote: I just read the string of posts since I posted mine two days ago. Thanks for the public comments from Jeff Potokar and Phillipp Kainbacher - (and from Bruce H. via Jeff) - and from others who privately wrote me about this. And Phillipp, congratulations for getting a happy resolution from Grey. He's a good man. -d. P.S. - As for the rolled Third Man poster being offered at Bidll - what stands out in Bruce H.'s comments - is his opinion that a rolled (vs. folded) 1949 international one-sheet - seems unusual. I will say the colors and detail in the Bidll poster are more vivid than the re-issue 1950s poster I bought in 2003 that was mistakenly represented as original. I think if a buyer likes the image and can live with everything else about it, it's still a fine poster from a great movie. (See web-hosted images again below to compare.) The Third Man 1950s international re-issue one-sheet, Heritage, November 2003: The Third Man (?) international one-sheet, Bidll, June 2015: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:39:11 PST From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Yes Jeff from today's conversation. Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:56:35 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Was that offered refund a result of this 2015 conversation, Phillipp? Good for you, if so. That's what discussion and collecting is all about. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 20:41:38 -0700 From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I would like to inform that Grey has immediately offered to refund the money for the Third Man poster. I have been dealing with Grey since day one of his auctions buying and selling posters. Philipp Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:45:54 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution. There is also re-release one-sheet which is very similar to the African Queen one (no printing on the bottom), and I would think both that and the African Queen are from the late 1950s or early 1960s. The reason the poster was entered incorrectly in our database was that we never auctioned it. It is one of the tens of thousands of posters that Richard Allen owned and photographed when amassing his archive. When those were put online, some mistakes crept in, and this is one of them. I have corrected it to match what I wrote above. Finally, as David Kusumoto noted, we DID incorrectly auction a late 1950s re-release as original in one of our Christie's auctions. It does
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I just read the string of posts since I posted mine two days ago. Thanks for the public comments from Jeff Potokar and Phillipp Kainbacher - (and from Bruce H. via Jeff) - and from others who privately wrote me about this. And Phillipp, congratulations for getting a happy resolution from Grey. He's a good man. -d. P.S. - As for the rolled Third Man poster being offered at Bidll - what stands out in Bruce H.'s comments - is his opinion that a rolled (vs. folded) 1949 international one-sheet - seems unusual. I will say the colors and detail in the Bidll poster are more vivid than the re-issue 1950s poster I bought in 2003 that was mistakenly represented as original. I think if a buyer likes the image and can live with everything else about it, it's still a fine poster from a great movie. (See web-hosted images again below to compare.) The Third Man 1950s international re-issue one-sheet, Heritage, November 2003: The Third Man (?) international one-sheet, Bidll, June 2015: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:39:11 PST From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Yes Jeff from today's conversation. Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 21:56:35 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Was that offered refund a result of this 2015 conversation, Phillipp? Good for you, if so. That's what discussion and collecting is all about. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 20:41:38 -0700 From: 0015e579331a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu Subject: Re: My history of bad luck chasing an original Third Man (1949). To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I would like to inform that Grey has immediately offered to refund the money for the Third Man poster. I have been dealing with Grey since day one of his auctions buying and selling posters. Philipp Sent from my iPhone Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 12:45:54 -0700 From: jpotok...@ca.rr.com Subject: Re: [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution. There is also re-release one-sheet which is very similar to the African Queen one (no printing on the bottom), and I would think both that and the African Queen are from the late 1950s or early 1960s. The reason the poster was entered incorrectly in our database was that we never auctioned it. It is one of the tens of thousands of posters that Richard Allen owned and photographed when amassing his archive. When those were put online, some mistakes crept in, and this is one of them. I have corrected it to match what I wrote above. Finally, as David Kusumoto noted, we DID incorrectly auction a late 1950s re-release as original in one of our Christie's auctions. It does NOT appear in our database at all. WHY? Because the buyer contacted us ten years later and complained that we made a mistake, and we fully refunded him, so it can't be in our database, because it was not original, and we do not want to mislead people into thinking a reissue sold for that price. We took
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I wrote to Bruce to ask his thoughts on this poster and discussion. He wrote me back and also said I could post his reply to MOPO: Jeff I personally think it is very likely that it is from 1955 or so. Here is why: IMDb only lists a handful of films from Lion International. But because we have auctioned a zillion English one-sheets, WE know that there are at least 92 from 1955 on. There is not ONE that is from before 1955 other than the disputed Third Man poster. 36 of the 92 are from exactly 1955 to 1959. When you combine this with the stuff MoPo members found online, I think that is pretty definitive. In addition, there is the issue of the poster being unfolded. Again, I have sold a zillion English one-sheets, and the ONLY other one that was unfolded was the African Queen re-release, which is surprisingly similar to the Third Man re-release, because it has a very similar image to the English original, except it is not as finely detailed, and it has been found unfolded, but it has no printer information on it (unlike the Third Man poster in question). I think I would have an even more definite opinion if I saw this poster in person. I know that studios used the same type paper for a number of years, and when they changed, they changed for all their printing. That is how you can pinpoint a poster to a specific handful of years, or a decade. The English one-sheets I have handled have remarkably similar paper. If this poster had paper that was at all different, that would be even more reason to be sure it was not from the same year. Put it all together, and I think you certainly have far more than a reasonable doubt, and I would certainly auction this poster as undated, likely a mid-1950s re-release, likely for the international distribution. There is also re-release one-sheet which is very similar to the African Queen one (no printing on the bottom), and I would think both that and the African Queen are from the late 1950s or early 1960s. The reason the poster was entered incorrectly in our database was that we never auctioned it. It is one of the tens of thousands of posters that Richard Allen owned and photographed when amassing his archive. When those were put online, some mistakes crept in, and this is one of them. I have corrected it to match what I wrote above. Finally, as David Kusumoto noted, we DID incorrectly auction a late 1950s re-release as original in one of our Christie's auctions. It does NOT appear in our database at all. WHY? Because the buyer contacted us ten years later and complained that we made a mistake, and we fully refunded him, so it can't be in our database, because it was not original, and we do not want to mislead people into thinking a reissue sold for that price. We took a huge loss on that, but that is just part of our lifetime guarantee. Feel free to post this on MoPo. Thanks, Bruce Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Now ... this is what I refer to as a hi-res' pic of a poster. ad On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:58 AM, David Rew da...@bidll.com wrote: Just wanted to offer this follow-up. As you know I had written to Mr Peter Snell owner of CEO of British Lion Film in the hope he might be able to help with the puzzle of the poster. Although he did not respond directly to me he did kindly pass on my email to Studio Canal to respond. For those who do not know, Studio Canal actually have just restored The Third Man and it has (just) been released as well as available to purchase from all the usual online re-sellers; watch the (restored) trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yyDEDGlr0. Mr. Massimo Moretti who is the UK Library Commercial Development Manager for StudioCanal answered as follows [some edits]: *... Our company controls the rights to most of the historical British Lion catalogue. It is a library with a fascinating history, but this is history is also quite complicated. Please accept my apologies for the generalizations, but, in essence:* *Studiocanal acquired the catalogue as part of the purchase of the Lumiere Films catalogue in 1994-6. * *Originally the British Lion assets were acquired by EMI Films around 1973. What makes it complicated is that British Lion acted both as a financier and as a straightforward distributor and the rights situations are sometimes complex. However, around 1949, British Lion was owned by Sir Alexander Korda who used the studio facilities at Shepperton and the distribution arm for his films produced under ‘London Films’. This is where The Third Man comes into place. At the time The Selznick Organization acquired North American distribution rights (the title was spelled The 3rd Man and the poster is very different), while British Lion distributed internationally.* I also asked if it might be possible if he would know the international re-release history for the film, to which he replied: *I am afraid our records on the International distribution arm are pretty much non-existent, we end up relying on the BFI library and imdb.com http://imdb.com (which is far from reliable sometimes). It does not help that when producing artwork British Lion often relied on National Screen Services and they have also long gone.*** He also kindly (as I did ask), a couple of lo-res images of the quads...thought you might like to see them...I'm assuming the US (Selznick) one would have been part of the *USA 1956/57** re-releases* (BTW - the US poster sucks ass). ;) Here are the confirmations of those USA reissues http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/2up http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai80unse#page/n347/mode/2up/search/%22third+man%22+AND+%22reissue%22 That is all I have thus far, as you know I had written to someone I know at BFI but as yet I have not heard back. Either way, I think the poster on BIDLL is a special and rare one http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 - good luck if you are bidding. regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll [image: Follow us] https://twitter.com/bidll [image: Follow us] http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
All this has been very interesting, but I wonder how it affects the question of value. In general, however, is a rare re-release poster worth more than an original release poster which is fairly easily obtainable? Tommy On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Helmut Hamm texasmu...@web.de wrote: I must admit that I have somewhat lost track about the back and forth around this poster. However, the information that Paul has dug up can hardly be contradicted: http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n481/mode/2up/search/%27lion+international+films%27 Motion Picture Daily from September 21, 1955 announces the foundation Lion Films International. Thus, the poster in question must be from 1955 or later and I stand corrected. Well, live and learn... Helmut www.filmposter.net Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I must admit that I have somewhat lost track about the back and forth around this poster. However, the information that Paul has dug up can hardly be contradicted: http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n481/mode/2up/search/%27lion+international+films%27 Motion Picture Daily from September 21, 1955 announces the foundation Lion Films International. Thus, the poster in question must be from 1955 or later and I stand corrected. Well, live and learn... Helmut www.filmposter.net Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
According to chap at Canal relating to Third Man, British Lion distributed internationally. (Under what name?) And accounts of Woolf's IFD have them utilising Lion International from 1950. Since Lion didn't distribute in the USA prior to 55, then presumably, once they started to in 55 after the reformation of the company, they would have to form a new company there to do so. I'm not convinced that when the company was reformed, and they launched distribution in the US they couldn't have reused a previously used name, one never used in the US. Unless of course there's evidence of their prior international distribution being done under a different name. On 23 Jun 2015, at 14:56, Helmut Hamm wrote: I must admit that I have somewhat lost track about the back and forth around this poster. However, the information that Paul has dug up can hardly be contradicted: http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n481/mode/2up/search/%27lion+international+films%27 Motion Picture Daily from September 21, 1955 announces the foundation Lion Films International. Thus, the poster in question must be from 1955 or later and I stand corrected. Well, live and learn... Helmut www.filmposter.net Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Richard, THE THIRD MAN was originally released in Germany by 'Deutsche London Film' in 1950. The first re-release must've been around 1956, and the poster still shows this company as distributor. By the end of 1956, they either changed names or went out of business. It would make sense that all international distribution was then handled by 'Lion Films International'. Helmut I'm not convinced that when the company was reformed, and they launched distribution in the US they couldn't have reused a previously used name, one never used in the US. Unless of course there's evidence of their prior international distribution being done under a different name. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
And shot thru some nice, soft diffusion, too. :) On Jun 23, 2015, at 5:46 AM, allen day wrote: Now ... this is what I refer to as a hi-res' pic of a poster. ad On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:58 AM, David Rew da...@bidll.com wrote: Just wanted to offer this follow-up. As you know I had written to Mr Peter Snell owner of CEO of British Lion Film in the hope he might be able to help with the puzzle of the poster. Although he did not respond directly to me he did kindly pass on my email to Studio Canal to respond. For those who do not know, Studio Canal actually have just restored The Third Man and it has (just) been released as well as available to purchase from all the usual online re-sellers; watch the (restored) trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yyDEDGlr0. Mr. Massimo Moretti who is the UK Library Commercial Development Manager for StudioCanal answered as follows [some edits]: ... Our company controls the rights to most of the historical British Lion catalogue. It is a library with a fascinating history, but this is history is also quite complicated. Please accept my apologies for the generalizations, but, in essence: Studiocanal acquired the catalogue as part of the purchase of the Lumiere Films catalogue in 1994-6. Originally the British Lion assets were acquired by EMI Films around 1973. What makes it complicated is that British Lion acted both as a financier and as a straightforward distributor and the rights situations are sometimes complex. However, around 1949, British Lion was owned by Sir Alexander Korda who used the studio facilities at Shepperton and the distribution arm for his films produced under ‘London Films’. This is where The Third Man comes into place. At the time The Selznick Organization acquired North American distribution rights (the title was spelled The 3rd Man and the poster is very different), while British Lion distributed internationally. I also asked if it might be possible if he would know the international re-release history for the film, to which he replied: I am afraid our records on the International distribution arm are pretty much non-existent, we end up relying on the BFI library and imdb.com (which is far from reliable sometimes). It does not help that when producing artwork British Lion often relied on National Screen Services and they have also long gone. He also kindly (as I did ask), a couple of lo-res images of the quads...thought you might like to see them...I'm assuming the US (Selznick) one would have been part of the USA 1956/57 re-releases (BTW - the US poster sucks ass). ;) Here are the confirmations of those USA reissues http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/ 2up http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai80unse#page/n347/mode/ 2up/search/%22third+man%22+AND+%22reissue%22 That is all I have thus far, as you know I had written to someone I know at BFI but as yet I have not heard back. Either way, I think the poster on BIDLL is a special and rare one - good luck if you are bidding. regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
That’s why I think the Lion International is relevant, but not as relevant as the absence of the London Film logo. To use another rule that is not applicable all of the time: on original release the info of the production company is always there, while on rereleases the distributor info is always there (realArt for example). London Film was the production company of The Third Man, Korda bought British Lion solely for expansion (extra studio, extra distribution channel). It’s not inconceivable that IFD made use of British Lion before 1955, though I have not sen evidence of that so far. However Lion International was set up just as a distribution company in 1955, while British Lion also produced. I think the printer info Nottingham and or London is quite significant. Op 23 jun. 2015, om 18:14 heeft Richard C Evans evan...@mac.com het volgende geschreven: According to chap at Canal relating to Third Man, British Lion distributed internationally. (Under what name?) And accounts of Woolf's IFD have them utilising Lion International from 1950. Since Lion didn't distribute in the USA prior to 55, then presumably, once they started to in 55 after the reformation of the company, they would have to form a new company there to do so. I'm not convinced that when the company was reformed, and they launched distribution in the US they couldn't have reused a previously used name, one never used in the US. Unless of course there's evidence of their prior international distribution being done under a different name. On 23 Jun 2015, at 14:56, Helmut Hamm wrote: I must admit that I have somewhat lost track about the back and forth around this poster. However, the information that Paul has dug up can hardly be contradicted: http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n481/mode/2up/search/%27lion+international+films%27 Motion Picture Daily from September 21, 1955 announces the foundation Lion Films International. Thus, the poster in question must be from 1955 or later and I stand corrected. Well, live and learn... Helmut www.filmposter.net Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Under London Films International for the 1st release (an offshoot of London Films who owned British Lion), according to the Sydney Herald article that David posted. I originally had the same sort of doubts as you, and that’s why I researched backwards to try and find if the Lion International name had been used before 1955 (not just in US). After all, if British Lion could be re-born, why not a company called Lion International? That's also why I only had *slight* reservations at the beginning – I knew The Third Man was distributed by British Lion in the UK, so it was more than reasonable there might be a similarly-named company called Lion International (or even British Lion International) for international distribution. BUT, as I said previously, I could find no trace of that name, only London Films International. As Wim says, I think the absence of the London logo is also significant in this case. You were right about credits on posters seemingly not always conforming to logic, but the London Films logo on British one sheets does seem ruthlessly consistent. Helmut is quite right, Korda set up Deutsche London Film for distribution in Germany … which may reveal his naming preferences for international companies! Having said all this, I’m obviously very happy to be proved wrong if the evidence is there! What accounts of IFD appear to have them utilising Lion International from 1950? Anything that looks contemporary? Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 23/06/2015 17:14:32 GMT Daylight Time, evan...@mac.com writes: According to chap at Canal relating to Third Man, British Lion distributed internationally. (Under what name?) And accounts of Woolf's IFD have them utilising Lion International from 1950. Since Lion didn't distribute in the USA prior to 55, then presumably, once they started to in 55 after the reformation of the company, they would have to form a new company there to do so. I'm not convinced that when the company was reformed, and they launched distribution in the US they couldn't have reused a previously used name, one never used in the US. Unless of course there's evidence of their prior international distribution being done under a different name. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I don't know, is the original UK release easily obtainable? HA is the only one on record who has sold the original back in 2006 for US$5,750 in comparison the BIDLL one http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 has a starting bid of just USD$2,750 David Tommy Barr wrote on 24/06/2015 12:32 AM: All this has been very interesting, but I wonder how it affects the question of value. In general, however, is a rare re-release poster worth more than an original release poster which is fairly easily obtainable? Tommy On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Helmut Hamm texasmu...@web.de mailto:texasmu...@web.de wrote: I must admit that I have somewhat lost track about the back and forth around this poster. However, the information that Paul has dug up can hardly be contradicted: http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n481/mode/2up/search/%27lion+international+films%27 Motion Picture Daily from September 21, 1955 announces the foundation Lion Films International. Thus, the poster in question must be from 1955 or later and I stand corrected. Well, live and learn... Helmut www.filmposter.net http://www.filmposter.net Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com http://www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu mailto:lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Just wanted to offer this follow-up. As you know I had written to Mr Peter Snell owner of CEO of British Lion Film in the hope he might be able to help with the puzzle of the poster. Although he did not respond directly to me he did kindly pass on my email to Studio Canal to respond. For those who do not know, Studio Canal actually have just restored The Third Man and it has (just) been released as well as available to purchase from all the usual online re-sellers; watch the (restored) trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yyDEDGlr0. Mr. Massimo Moretti who is the UK Library Commercial Development Manager for StudioCanal answered as follows [some edits]: /... Our company controls the rights to most of the historical British Lion catalogue. It is a library with a fascinating history, but this is history is also quite complicated. Please accept my apologies for the generalizations, but, in essence:// // //Studiocanal acquired the catalogue as part of the purchase of the Lumiere Films catalogue in 1994-6. // // //Originally the British Lion assets were acquired by EMI Films around 1973. What makes it complicated is that British Lion acted both as a financier and as a straightforward distributor and the rights situations are sometimes complex. However, around 1949, British Lion was owned by Sir Alexander Korda who used the studio facilities at Shepperton and the distribution arm for his films produced under ‘London Films’. This is where The Third Man comes into place. At the time The Selznick Organization acquired North American distribution rights (the title was spelled The 3rd Man and the poster is very different), while British Lion distributed internationally./ I also asked if it might be possible if he would know the international re-release history for the film, to which he replied: /I am afraid our records on the International distribution arm are pretty much non-existent, we end up relying on the BFI library and imdb.com (which is far from reliable sometimes). It does not help that when producing artwork British Lion often relied on National Screen Services and they have also long gone./// He also kindly (as I did ask), a couple of lo-res images of the quads...thought you might like to see them...I'm assuming the US (Selznick) one would have been part of the _*USA 1956/57*_*_re-releases_* (BTW - the US poster sucks ass). ;) Here are the confirmations of those USA reissues http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/2up http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai80unse#page/n347/mode/2up/search/%22third+man%22+AND+%22reissue%22 That is all I have thus far, as you know I had written to someone I know at BFI but as yet I have not heard back. Either way, I think the poster on BIDLL is a special and rare one http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 - good luck if you are bidding. regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Hi All Well as you know our NZ based collector and seller of this rare poster on BIDLL http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722has been following the conversations on MoPo with much interest, and although he did not ask me to pass on this message I felt I would let you know that he said: / ...a big thank you to yourself and your collecting community for putting in so much effort into finding out the origins of this poster./ regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com David wrote on 23/06/2015 7:57 AM: Good Morning all! Once again my beauty sleep has worked wonders for my skin, the wrinkles have fallen to one side, which has made me a little blind in one eye as I see I have a lot of reading. Well if nothing else I have enjoyed the hunt and the excellent resources that have been used and posted for more information on this poster - thanks to all. I think many have enjoyed some of the what has been revealed. The link to http://mediahistoryproject.org/ from Paul Gerrard (via Uncle Phil some years ago) is excellent, I've been trawling through it, what a superb resource! Here's something interesting, (apologies if others have already seen it): http://archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/2up specifically perhaps note what films were up for immediate re-release, although it doesn't specifically help date the poster because we do have those other R-50s posters in the mix. Anyway, back to the reading, fantastic and fascinating stuff and the most animated membership has been in a while, one could almost hear all the coffin lids creaking and the capes being thrown back over the shoulders... David Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
It's really good of them to reply so quickly. However, I should point out that the 1st image you attached is not a quad, but (most of) a first release US Half Sheet style B. The 2nd image is a really nice one of the original quad though. Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 23/06/2015 10:58:51 GMT Daylight Time, da...@bidll.com writes: Just wanted to offer this follow-up. As you know I had written to Mr Peter Snell owner of CEO of British Lion Film in the hope he might be able to help with the puzzle of the poster. Although he did not respond directly to me he did kindly pass on my email to Studio Canal to respond. For those who do not know, Studio Canal actually have just restored The Third Man and it has (just) been released as well as available to purchase from all the usual online re-sellers; watch the (restored) trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yyDEDGlr0. Mr. Massimo Moretti who is the UK Library Commercial Development Manager for StudioCanal answered as follows [some edits]: ... Our company controls the rights to most of the historical British Lion catalogue. It is a library with a fascinating history, but this is history is also quite complicated. Please accept my apologies for the generalizations, but, in essence: Studiocanal acquired the catalogue as part of the purchase of the Lumiere Films catalogue in 1994-6. Originally the British Lion assets were acquired by EMI Films around 1973. What makes it complicated is that British Lion acted both as a financier and as a straightforward distributor and the rights situations are sometimes complex. However, around 1949, British Lion was owned by Sir Alexander Korda who used the studio facilities at Shepperton and the distribution arm for his films produced under ‘London Films’. This is where The Third Man comes into place. At the time The Selznick Organization acquired North American distribution rights (the title was spelled The 3rd Man and the poster is very different), while British Lion distributed internationally. I also asked if it might be possible if he would know the international re-release history for the film, to which he replied: I am afraid our records on the International distribution arm are pretty much non-existent, we end up relying on the BFI library and imdb.com (which is far from reliable sometimes). It does not help that when producing artwork British Lion often relied on National Screen Services and they have also long gone. He also kindly (as I did ask), a couple of lo-res images of the quads...thought you might like to see them...I'm assuming the US (Selznick) one would have been part of the USA 1956/57 re-releases (BTW - the US poster sucks ass). ;) Here are the confirmations of those USA reissues http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/2up _http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai80unse#page/n347/mode/2up/sea rch/%22third+man%22+AND+%22reissue%22_ (http://www.archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai80unse#page/n347/mode/2up/search/third+man+AND+reissue;) That is all I have thus far, as you know I had written to someone I know at BFI but as yet I have not heard back. Either way, I think the poster on _BIDLL is a special and rare one_ (http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722) - good luck if you are bidding. regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors (https://www.facebook.com/bidll) (https://twitter.com/bidll) (http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/) (http://www.bidll.com/) To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
It’s in Ed Harris’ Britain’s Forgotten Film Factory: The Story Of Isleworth Studios. 2012. And also Derek Threadgall’s 1994 British Film Institute publication, Shepperton studios: an independent view. Which Ed Harris may have got it from. Just spotted, thanks to that humongous Third Man quad image, that it does show a censor rating in the tiny disc on the right. Whether or not I knew it and forgot, the recognised Brit 1-sht also has it, as does the 3-sheet. You can see why they replaced that way of doing it. Once you see it. Got the one I consigned to Heritage off Choko in France, I think sometime mid to late 90s. He also had a 3-sht, as did Reel Poster Gallery at the same time. Bob Brooks was selling a copy of the disputed International back in 2004. He's in Canada, whether or not that's where he found it. Never seen quad for sale, only had an image of it on a BFI postcard. I need to read through everything again, I just have serious difficulty believing a post 55 RR International 1-sht would have that quality of printing and be so close to the 49 domestic 1-sht. Though I suppose there are instances, like that Invaders From Mars 1-sht. Sent from my iPhone On 23 Jun 2015, at 19:27, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Under London Films International for the 1st release (an offshoot of London Films who owned British Lion), according to the Sydney Herald article that David posted. I originally had the same sort of doubts as you, and that’s why I researched backwards to try and find if the Lion International name had been used before 1955 (not just in US). After all, if British Lion could be re-born, why not a company called Lion International? That's also why I only had *slight* reservations at the beginning – I knew The Third Man was distributed by British Lion in the UK, so it was more than reasonable there might be a similarly-named company called Lion International (or even British Lion International) for international distribution. BUT, as I said previously, I could find no trace of that name, only London Films International. As Wim says, I think the absence of the London logo is also significant in this case. You were right about credits on posters seemingly not always conforming to logic, but the London Films logo on British one sheets does seem ruthlessly consistent. Helmut is quite right, Korda set up Deutsche London Film for distribution in Germany … which may reveal his naming preferences for international companies! Having said all this, I’m obviously very happy to be proved wrong if the evidence is there! What accounts of IFD appear to have them utilising Lion International from 1950? Anything that looks contemporary? Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 23/06/2015 17:14:32 GMT Daylight Time, evan...@mac.com writes: According to chap at Canal relating to Third Man, British Lion distributed internationally. (Under what name?) And accounts of Woolf's IFD have them utilising Lion International from 1950. Since Lion didn't distribute in the USA prior to 55, then presumably, once they started to in 55 after the reformation of the company, they would have to form a new company there to do so. I'm not convinced that when the company was reformed, and they launched distribution in the US they couldn't have reused a previously used name, one never used in the US. Unless of course there's evidence of their prior international distribution being done under a different name. To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Rich, Without looking at these in detail, you also have to take domestic distributors into account. For example, British Lion distributed Third Man and Fallen Idol (produced by London Films) domestically, hence Lion logo on quads. It's all very complicated when British Lion are owned by London Films anyway, but that's how it worked domestically. As far as I can see, British 1 sheets and 3 sheets were printed as international posters, so could have different distributors (e.g. London Films International - same logo if also produced by London Films?). The sporadic domestic censor rating on British 1 and 3 sheets FOR SPECIFIC TITLES is still a bit of a mystery to me. Too common to be accidental, too rare to mean that they were used commonly in the UK. Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 22/06/2015 14:31:00 GMT Daylight Time, evan...@mac.com writes: Think this is a lesson for not putting too much faith in the logic of what's printed on posters. Quads for Third Man, Fallen Idol, and Small Back Room, have London and Lion logos. Lion logo not on Third Man 1 and 3 sheet. Likewise, Fallen Idol 1-sheet, 6 sheet just the London Films logo. Tales Of Hoffmann quad, no use of London Films logo. Domestic Third Man paper, (recognised domestic 1 sheet, 3-sheet and quad) no censor rating (?) Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Good Morning all! Once again my beauty sleep has worked wonders for my skin, the wrinkles have fallen to one side, which has made me a little blind in one eye as I see I have a lot of reading. Well if nothing else I have enjoyed the hunt and the excellent resources that have been used and posted for more information on this poster - thanks to all. I think many have enjoyed some of the what has been revealed. The link to http://mediahistoryproject.org/ from Paul Gerrard (via Uncle Phil some years ago) is excellent, I've been trawling through it, what a superb resource! Here's something interesting, (apologies if others have already seen it): http://archive.org/stream/motionpicturedai78unse#page/n383/mode/2up specifically perhaps note what films were up for immediate re-release, although it doesn't specifically help date the poster because we do have those other R-50s posters in the mix. Anyway, back to the reading, fantastic and fascinating stuff and the most animated membership has been in a while, one could almost hear all the coffin lids creaking and the capes being thrown back over the shoulders... David Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “ lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
As i noted earlier about the start of Lion International: You can find it here: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/457344/ and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Lion_Films. Granted it does not say that Lion Internantional Flms started then, but it's clear that the receivership of London Films aka Alexander Korda, who bought British Lion for the Shepperton studios, is a turning point where several producers found an outlet for their films. The article mention the Boulting brothers and Launder Gilliatt. Makes perfect sense that the National Film Finance Corporation wanted the IFD also to use the new distribution channel. Op 22 jun 2015, om 15:15 heeft Richard C Evans het volgende geschreven: If this is accurate then IFD (Independent Film Distributors) was using Lion International from 1950. (IFD apparently existed 50-59.) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E1ioAwAAQBAJpg=PP174lpg=PP174dq=ifd+woolfsource=blots=ehI2myI7tFsig=oCAsIlRVdncbJvlm8vm6HtXz4oghl=ensa=Xved=0CCMQ6AEwAmoVChMI0fb5mrCjxgIVLCrbCh0YNAix #v=onepageq=ifd%20woolff=false Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2015, at 13:08, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Sure there's room for margin/error there, but then again the London Film logo is on the one vetted original British onseheet. Op 22 jun 2015, om 15:30 heeft Richard C Evans het volgende geschreven: Think this is a lesson for not putting too much faith in the logic of what's printed on posters. Quads for Third Man, Fallen Idol, and Small Back Room, have London and Lion logos. Lion logo not on Third Man 1 and 3 sheet. Likewise, Fallen Idol 1-sheet, 6 sheet just the London Films logo. Tales Of Hoffmann quad, no use of London Films logo. Domestic Third Man paper, (recognised domestic 1 sheet, 3-sheet and quad) no censor rating (?) Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2015, at 13:08, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
If this is accurate then IFD (Independent Film Distributors) was using Lion International from 1950. (IFD apparently existed 50-59.) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E1ioAwAAQBAJpg=PP174lpg=PP174dq=ifd+woolfsource=blots=ehI2myI7tFsig=oCAsIlRVdncbJvlm8vm6HtXz4oghl=ensa=Xved=0CCMQ6AEwAmoVChMI0fb5mrCjxgIVLCrbCh0YNAix#v=onepageq=ifd%20woolff=false Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2015, at 13:08, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Think this is a lesson for not putting too much faith in the logic of what's printed on posters. Quads for Third Man, Fallen Idol, and Small Back Room, have London and Lion logos. Lion logo not on Third Man 1 and 3 sheet. Likewise, Fallen Idol 1-sheet, 6 sheet just the London Films logo. Tales Of Hoffmann quad, no use of London Films logo. Domestic Third Man paper, (recognised domestic 1 sheet, 3-sheet and quad) no censor rating (?) Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2015, at 13:08, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
That is why I think it is telling that the London Film logo, basically Alexander Korda's signature, is not on the poster in question whilst it is on the few posters I resarched up and until Korda's last production Richard III. I must admit though that the info on the several depots of Stafford and Co. has thrown me a bit. However I believe that the Netherfield Nottingham and London info indicates a later printing than the original. I must get my hands on the book on the histoty of Stafford and Co. Op 22 jun 2015, om 15:30 heeft bqjansen het volgende geschreven: As i noted earlier about the start of Lion International: You can find it here: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/ 457344/ and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Lion_Films. Granted it does not say that Lion Internantional Flms started then, but it's clear that the receivership of London Films aka Alexander Korda, who bought British Lion for the Shepperton studios, is a turning point where several producers found an outlet for their films. The article mention the Boulting brothers and Launder Gilliatt. Makes perfect sense that the National Film Finance Corporation wanted the IFD also to use the new distribution channel. Op 22 jun 2015, om 15:15 heeft Richard C Evans het volgende geschreven: If this is accurate then IFD (Independent Film Distributors) was using Lion International from 1950. (IFD apparently existed 50-59.) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E1ioAwAAQBAJpg=PP174lpg=PP174dq=ifd+woolfsource=blots=ehI2myI7tFsig=oCAsIlRVdncbJvlm8vm6HtXz4oghl=ensa=Xved=0CCMQ6AEwAmoVChMI0fb5mrCjxgIVLCrbCh0YNAix #v=onepageq=ifd%20woolff=false Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jun 2015, at 13:08, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: David, It appears Lion International was indeed created in 1955, just after the old British Lion collapsed with Korda’s London Films and was resurrected under new ownership. Some brief columns in the Sept 21, Nov 15 and Dec 2 editions of Motion Picture Daily 1955 describe the set-up of the new firm. These can be accessed via http://mediahistoryproject.org/ and searching for “lion international” 1955. There’s also a snippet from the Economist Newspaper 1966 on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/pe7bbce that seems to be tracing the history of those related companies. I can’t find any reference to the name Lion International being used prior to that point either in the Media History database, in the BFI database, search engines, or on posters, advertising material etc. The Kinematograph Yearbooks for 1949/1950 (also in the database) only mention British Lion, London Films and London Films International. This would explain the absence of the London Films logo, which was by then defunct. The poster must be from a later release then, perhaps corresponding with the US 1956 release. Despite my slight reservations about Lion International initially, this still surprised me, as I have to admit I was still leaning more towards first release purely because of litho number, print quality, and the Heritage version possibly being a domestic exception only. Whatever the case, I think it’s worth reiterating that any early British material for The Third Man is exceedingly rare! Will be interesting to see if the BFI or British Lion can provide more info on releases. Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 21:46:09 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
The other idea, too, is this. What if this poster is sold as a first release and is later found to be a later RR? This seller is asking for a good amount of coinage for it, as a BIN. Would this seller refund the winning bidder or buyer, if it was worth much less than he sold it for, because it was found (some time down the road) to be a later RR? EMP would offer that option, by contacting the new owner and offering his/her $$ back; ebay has buyer protection, where a buyer/winning bidder could get a full refund if an item isn't as described. At the end of the day, it's more about protecting both seller and buyer, Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 7:46 PM, David wrote: So if that is NOT a 1949 original UK1SH for foreign distribution but perhaps a 1955 first release foreign 1SH (and I am not saying one way or another), it does lead down the dark path to the next most obvious question: what are and what date are these sold by EMP and the same question for these ones sold by HA (who have sold the same poster both as an original 1949 and as an R-50s) all of which look like poor quality productions of this BIDLL one and this EMP one and none include the printer's details nor the litho details etc etc. I guess when Jeff you said More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think it seems obvious the seller did exactly that by and referred to the two biggest databases around, taken the information as presented and understandably has now put his piece up for auction based on all that information. Obviously there are a few stones to look under before we get there. David Jeff Potokar wrote on 21/06/2015 8:17 AM: It does. And Bruce may be mistaken, as well. Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 3:01 PM, David wrote: Question to all... Doesn't the BIDLL one look a whole lot like this 1949 version? http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html David Wim Jansen wrote on 21/06/2015 5:07 AM: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948 onesheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN�S PARADISE 53 halfsheet London Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International probably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logo printer not visible RICHARD III 1955 onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logoNott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT 1956 six sheet Lion International, no London Film printer not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion Internationalprobably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logoprinter not visible RICHARD III1955onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logoNott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT1956 six sheetLion International, no London Filmprinter not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com mailto:jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *Richard C Evans *Sent: *Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 *To: *MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU *Reply To: *evan...@mac.com mailto:evan...@mac.com *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu mailto:0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com/ In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and_reissues of__David O. Selznick_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick_films�._ Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http:// movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick- r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film- noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27- x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original- for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re- release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com mailto:shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com mailto:shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
- shading, detail, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http:// movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick- r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film- noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27- x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original- for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re- release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http:// movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick- r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/ the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here- is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/ 633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com mailto:shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com http://bidll.com/ for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll https://twitter.com/bidll http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com/ To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Apparently, British Lion Films Ltd. was formed in January 1955, after the owners of London Films encountered some financial troubles. I believe that 'Lion International Films' as a division of London Films existed before that. Helmut The only slight question mark in my mind is whether Lion International existed in 1949/1950. Apart from IMDb, which may itself have been updated as a result of the poster, the earliest reference to the company I can find is 1955, although this of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist before then. This is where a good collection of trade mags would come in useful! Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
That's so odd, isn't it? With all the internetsites available, we can't say categorically when a subsidiary of an important company started. Wim Op 20 jun 2015, om 17:40 heeft Paul Gerrard het volgende geschreven: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon From: David Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 9:40 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) Thanks Paul Some incredibly valuable insight I appreciate you sharing, I've learned something. So, essentially the dig is on to find out about Lion International. Hopefully Richard Evans can share more, unless the send button on his phone get in the way again. ;) cheers David speedys...@aol.com wrote on 20/06/2015 1:44 AM: Hi David, This actually popped up in a previous thread several years ago: http://www.mail-archive.com/mopo-l%40listserv.american.edu/msg29685.html Like Rich Evans said, on face value the version with the A rating – which is clearly part of the design not an overstamp - is a domestic UK version (albeit very unusual for the 1940s!), and the Lion International one an international equivalent. I used to think post-war British one sheets were only intended for overseas use too, but there are other titles with BBFC ratings that seem to contradict this. Possibly helping to back up this argument, both have the same litho number B.L. 838, although with very slight differences in the artwork detail. (“B.L.” stands for production/distribution company British Lion which was absorbed by London Films in the mid-40s.) Interestingly, on one poster the printer is credited as “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM”, and on the other “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM and London”. However, this is inconclusive, as both credits appear on British posters from that time. Maybe the additional London credit indicates which ones were printed for the London branch. The only slight question mark in my mind is whether Lion International existed in 1949/1950. Apart from IMDb, which may itself have been updated as a result of the poster, the earliest reference to the company I can find is 1955, although this of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist before then. This is where a good collection of trade mags would come in useful! Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 19/06/2015 11:58:57 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
, detail, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Helmut, Not sure what you intended with this follow-up message, but just to avoid confusion: You're right that British Lion Films Ltd was (re-)created in 1955 as a new limited company when Korda went bust, but as you said in your previous message British Lion as a company existed long before that. After it was taken over by Korda's London Films in 1946, it still operated as a separate company and in fact their logo appears on 1940s quads after that time in addition to London Films. The Third Man quad being one example (though not the apparently domestic Heritage one sheet just to be awkward!!) Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:04:21 GMT Daylight Time, texasmu...@web.de writes: Apparently, British Lion Films Ltd. was formed in January 1955, after the owners of London Films encountered some financial troubles. I believe that 'Lion International Films' as a division of London Films existed before that. Helmut Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
True, but information like this proves to be so important. And there so much more info on lots of older stuff available. By the way wikipedia states that a controlling share of British Lion was bought in 1946 by London Films. Then in 1955 LF went into receivership and British Lion Films Lt.d started as a distribution company. Op 20 jun 2015, om 17:56 heeft Paul Gerrard het volgende geschreven: Unfortunately the internet wasn't around in the 1940s ;) Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 16:52:33 GMT Daylight Time, w...@bqjansen.demon.nl writes: That's so odd, isn't it? With all the internetsites available, we can't say categorically when a subsidiary of an important company started. Wim To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
What about the British Film Institute - worth a call to them don’t you think - given their trade papers, info and resources. Alan Please Visit Our New Website: WWW.MUSEUMOFMOMANDPOPCULTURE.COM And Our Ebay Store: http://stores.ebay.com/Museum-Store-Gifts On Jun 20, 2015, at 8:52 AM, bqjansen w...@bqjansen.demon.nl wrote: That's so odd, isn't it? With all the internetsites available, we can't say categorically when a subsidiary of an important company started. Wim Op 20 jun 2015, om 17:40 heeft Paul Gerrard het volgende geschreven: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com/ In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Unfortunately the internet wasn't around in the 1940s ;) Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 20/06/2015 16:52:33 GMT Daylight Time, w...@bqjansen.demon.nl writes: That's so odd, isn't it? With all the internetsites available, we can't say categorically when a subsidiary of an important company started. Wim Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of _Arthur Krim_ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krim) who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of _David O. Selznick_ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick) films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Just my silly joke. Yes, you're right there's a lot of information out there - perhaps too much sometimes - it's just the tracking down, the collating, and filtering out the misinformation. Not always easy - especially with the speed of my broadband connection! Paul In a message dated 20/06/2015 17:06:08 GMT Daylight Time, w...@bqjansen.demon.nl writes: True, but information like this proves to be so important. And there so much more info on lots of older stuff available. By the way wikipedia states that a controlling share of British Lion was bought in 1946 by London Films. Then in 1955 LF went into receivership and British Lion Films Lt.d started as a distribution company. Op 20 jun 2015, om 17:56 heeft Paul Gerrard het volgende geschreven: Unfortunately the internet wasn't around in the 1940s ;) Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com/) Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way.SimonSentfrommyBlackBerry10smartphone.From: Richard C EvansSent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUReply To: evan...@mac.comSubject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR?(Prior to that horrible "RR" which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.)Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic).Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense.One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not.A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?)Sent from my iPhoneOn 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; butLion International waspart of London Films/British Lion. It's just thatwecan't be 100% surewhen Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues ofDavid O. Selznickfilms”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L=1
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Entirely possible Wim. It’s just another conjecture. Personally though I’d lay more money out for the one that appeared at HA. Simon From: Wim Jansen Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:04 PM To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I’m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I’m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way.Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Great info. And sure seems to support your research, Wim, that this may be a later RR. Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Wim Jansen wrote: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948 onesheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN’S PARADISE 53 halfsheet London Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON’s CHOIce 1954 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International probably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logo printer not visible RICHARD III 1955 onesheet „distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logo Nott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT 1956 six sheet Lion International, no London Filmprinter not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it’s a rerelease, I’d say after 1955. There’s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there’s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I’m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I’m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc- requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948onesheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN’S PARADISE 53 halfsheetLondon Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON’s CHOIce 1954 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International probably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logo printer not visible RICHARD III 1955onesheet „distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logo Nott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT 1956 six sheet Lion International, no London Film printer not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it’s a rerelease, I’d say after 1955. There’s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there’s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I’m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I’m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Seems very sound, based on that information (if the wiki info is correct, that is). And as mentioned before.. why would a second plate/ art be done for an international release OS? The art is very similar to the HA copy, but it is NOT the same. Why go to that added creative trouble and added cost, to simply create and print a poster for overseas use, during the film's initial release? Or has that been done before, too? As well as the pertinent textual info missing from this copy (again, compared to the HA 49 copy). Seems to raise questions, indeed. On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: As London Films went bust in 1955 and Lion International Films was set up as a distribution company in January 1955 (surely wikipedia is right on this one) I am sorry to say it’s almost sure to be a re- release. Why should London Films take off their logo for an international issue? Or are there any other examples of that? Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:05 heeft Richard C Evans evan...@mac.com het volgende geschreven: The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc- requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I wrote to one of the people I know at the BFI a day or so ago asking if they could help shed some light, I am waiting to hear back - as an aside, they own a Quad for the film, not a UK1SH I also wrote to Peter Snell, CEO of British Lion (yes, I used Google to find him/the company) but sadly his email bounced back, I do have another option and have written to him there. David Alan Adler wrote on 21/06/2015 1:56 AM: What about the British Film Institute - worth a call to them don�t you think - given their trade papers, info and resources. Alan Please Visit Our New Website: WWW.MUSEUMOFMOMANDPOPCULTURE.COM http://WWW.MUSEUMOFMOMANDPOPCULTURE.COM And Our Ebay Store: http://stores.ebay.com/Museum-Store-Gifts On Jun 20, 2015, at 8:52 AM, bqjansen w...@bqjansen.demon.nl mailto:w...@bqjansen.demon.nl wrote: That's so odd, isn't it? With all the internetsites available, we can't say categorically when a subsidiary of an important company started. Wim Op 20 jun 2015, om 17:40 heeft Paul Gerrard het volgende geschreven: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com/ In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and_reissues of__David O. Selznick_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick_films�._ Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I’m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I’m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I’m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I’m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc- requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
As London Films went bust in 1955 and Lion International Films was set up as a distribution company in January 1955 (surely wikipedia is right on this one) I am sorry to say it’s almost sure to be a re-release. Why should London Films take off their logo for an international issue? Or are there any other examples of that? Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:05 heeft Richard C Evans evan...@mac.com het volgende geschreven: The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films”. Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
So if that is NOT a 1949 original UK1SH for foreign distribution but perhaps a 1955 first release foreign 1SH (and I am not saying one way or another), it does lead down the dark path to the next most obvious question: what are and what date are these sold by EMP http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/search/third%2520man/tag/nation%253AU.K./type/English%25201sh/style/R50s/archive.html and the same question for these ones sold by HA http://movieposters.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=54+790+231+232chkNotSold=1Ne=230Ntk=SI_TitlesNty=1Ntt=third+man+british+one+sheet (who have sold the /same/ poster both as an original 1949 and as an R-50s) all of which look like poor quality productions of this BIDLL one http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 and this EMP one http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html and none include the printer's details nor the litho details etc etc. I guess when Jeff you said /More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think/ it seems obvious the seller did /exactly/ that by and referred to the two biggest databases around, taken the information as presented and understandably has now put his piece up for auction based on all that information. Obviously there are a few stones to look under before we get there. David Jeff Potokar wrote on 21/06/2015 8:17 AM: It does. And Bruce may be mistaken, as well. Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 3:01 PM, David wrote: Question to all... Doesn't the BIDLL one look a whole lot like this 1949 version? http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html David Wim Jansen wrote on 21/06/2015 5:07 AM: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948onesheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953one sheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN�S PARADISE 53 halfsheetLondon Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion Internationalprobably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logoprinter not visible RICHARD III1955onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logoNott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT1956 six sheetLion International, no London Filmprinter not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com mailto:jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *Richard C Evans *Sent: *Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 *To: *MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU *Reply To: *evan...@mac.com mailto:evan...@mac.com *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Question to all... Doesn't the BIDLL one look a whole lot like this 1949 version? http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html David Wim Jansen wrote on 21/06/2015 5:07 AM: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948onesheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953one sheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN�S PARADISE 53 halfsheetLondon Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheetLondon Film logo, nothing on Lion Internationalprobably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logoprinter not visible RICHARD III1955onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logoNott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT1956 six sheetLion International, no London Filmprinter not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com mailto:jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *Richard C Evans *Sent: *Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 *To: *MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU *Reply To: *evan...@mac.com mailto:evan...@mac.com *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu mailto:0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com/ In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and_reissues of__David O. Selznick_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
It does. And Bruce may be mistaken, as well. Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 3:01 PM, David wrote: Question to all... Doesn't the BIDLL one look a whole lot like this 1949 version? http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html David Wim Jansen wrote on 21/06/2015 5:07 AM: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948 onesheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN�S PARADISE 53 halfsheet London Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International probably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logo printer not visible RICHARD III 1955 onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logo Nott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT 1956 six sheet Lion International, no London Film printer not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc- requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films�. Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Bruce should be sent a copy of the known HA '49 poster, as a comparison. I would be curious as to his take on this, as well. Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 3:01 PM, David wrote: Question to all... Doesn't the BIDLL one look a whole lot like this 1949 version? http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/archiveitem/12681291.html David Wim Jansen wrote on 21/06/2015 5:07 AM: Okay this is bugging me, I have done a quick reference search based on pics of Heritage (nice details!) and Emovie (aaargh not enough detail) of London Films productions from Imdb. Here we go: FALLEN IDOL 1948 onesheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International Nottingham only MAN BETWEEN 1953 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International printer not visible CAPTAIN�S PARADISE 53 halfsheet London Film credits no logo, British Lion logo (actual lion) Nott.ham only HOBSON�s CHOIce 1954 one sheet London Film logo, nothing on Lion International probably just Nottingham - unclear BELLES OF ST.TRINIANS 1954 3sheet London Films International and logo printer not visible RICHARD III 1955 onesheet �distribution controlled by London Films International, no logo Nottingham and London Kid FOR TWO FARTHINGS 1955 one sheet London Film logo Nott.ham and London IRON PETTICOAT 1956 six sheet Lion International, no London Film printer not visible I think I have solid ground for my position that it�s a rerelease, I�d say after 1955. There�s a book on the history of the Stafford Company by a local heritage writer, but there�s not a copy available on the net. Grrr, I want that. However I would not be at all surprised the Biddll one is printed in London in late 1955 the earliest. Wim Op 20 jun. 2015, om 20:22 heeft Jeff Potokar jpotok...@ca.rr.com het volgende geschreven: From the British Lion website. A brief history of the company, also mentioning that BL became a distribution company in 1955, after it fell into receivership. http://www.britishlion.com/british-lion-history.shtml Jeff On Jun 20, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Wim Jansen wrote: I disagree, I think the absence off the London Film logo is pretty crucial. Anyway I�m gonna find my Carol Reed book, maybe that has some more details on the release schedule, probably not though. Looking at the re-release posters on Heritage and emovie I�m wondering how sure are we that those are not international releases and the Biddl one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc- requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films�. Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c- dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/ British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films�. Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I too think it is an *original UK1SH for its first release in one of the colonies*, the similarities to the UK1SH domestic poster are too hard to ignore, and it leaves the R-50s posters for dead. The hard question is WHEN was the first release in some of the colonies that this poster was used? I can't trust the IMDB info as like wiki it is self edited by the public - the only entry they have for Australia is a re-release in 1999 and they don't even have it released in New Zealand! So I'd need better proof for instance than seeing a 1951 Hong Kong (UK colony) release date date on IMDB. However, I have been able to uncover a little more to discount it being from the first release in Australia in 1950, here's an article I found which clearly shows London Films International Ltd was the distributor in this country. That said, there were a LOT of other colonies and Dominions it could have been first released to. Enjoy the read, apologies in advance for the poor quality of the Cyd Charisse bathing suit pic elsewhere on the page. David Simon Oram wrote on 21/06/2015 3:49 AM: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *Richard C Evans *Sent: *Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 *To: *MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU *Reply To: *evan...@mac.com *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu mailto:0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part “From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and_reissues of__David O. Selznick_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick_films”._ Obviously I’m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
: Richard C Evans Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Reply To: evan...@mac.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control of Arthur Krim who in addition to releasing films by Rank and reissues of David O. Selznick films�. Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
one is the real English rerelease. That would also explain the differences in the printer information. W Op 20 jun. 2015, om 19:49 heeft Simon Oram fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com het volgende geschreven: I'm more in the thinking that it's a International UK 1 sheet for the first release in one of the colonies. Due to its obvious closeness and decent printing standard it's very close to the original release date. David said that The Third Man was released in Australia March 1950. OK the poster is in New Zealand but I think with that sort of info that sways me into thinking that way. Simon Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *Richard C Evans *Sent: *Saturday, 20 June 2015 18:06 *To: *MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU *Reply To: *evan...@mac.com mailto:evan...@mac.com *Subject: *Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) The unfavourable scenario (presumably no one is thinking fake), is that it could be an International RR? (Prior to that horrible RR which is based on it. I think based on the actual printed poster, and no connection to original plates.) Would they bother doing it for International RR? Especially with decent quality printing, (as good as the domestic). Everything points to it being contemporary to the domestic printed version, and any variances between the posters make sense. One print run for domestic version, one run for international. Whether done at the same branch of the printers or not. A different version would require a different set of plates to be made up, hence any minor differences with illustration along with required changes. (?) Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jun 2015, at 16:40, Paul Gerrard 0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu mailto:0060c3f9be9c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.american.edu wrote: Different companies! Eagle-Lion was Rank as you correctly say; but Lion International was part of London Films/British Lion. It's just that we can't be 100% sure when Lion International started... Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com/ In a message dated 20/06/2015 15:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, fab5fre...@btinternet.com mailto:fab5fre...@btinternet.com writes: Hi David, I would presume Lion International was part of Eagle-Lion owned by J. Arthur Rank. Eagle Lion were founded in 1946. This is interesting from Wikipedia, especially the last part �From 1946-1949 Eagle-Lion was under the control ofArthur Krim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Krimwho in addition to releasing films by Rank and_reissues of__David O. Selznick_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_O._Selznick_films�._ Obviously I�m not saying the poster on Bidll is definitely a reissue/re-release but I think it would be worth checking on more. Regards Simon To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
The point about more research should have been done - I'll let the seller know, or feel free to log on to BIDLL and drop the seller a note just as you would on eBay, the seller would appreciate the advice. regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Jeff Potokar wrote on 20/06/2015 2:21 AM: * The bidll copy also has the same text at the top (as the 50RR), wherein A LONDON FILMS PRODUCTION has been omitted before Korda and Selznick's name. * The bidll copy is missing the London Films logo in the lower right (as is also missing from the 50s RR). * Distributed by Lion International Films is present on the bidll copy and 50s RR copy, lower left corner, and is present at all on the '49 copy. * And when one looks closely at the artwork (the details on the man, and the orange cityscape behind, the large cloud in the sky) the artwork is NOT identical; but 2 lightly different versions- shading, detail, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com mailto:shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Thanks Paul Some incredibly valuable insight I appreciate you sharing, I've learned something. So, essentially the dig is on to find out about Lion International. Hopefully Richard Evans can share more, unless the send button on his phone get in the way again. ;) cheers David speedys...@aol.com wrote on 20/06/2015 1:44 AM: Hi David, This actually popped up in a previous thread several years ago: http://www.mail-archive.com/mopo-l%40listserv.american.edu/msg29685.html Like Rich Evans said, on face value the version with the A rating – which is clearly part of the design not an overstamp - is a domestic UKversion (albeit very unusual for the 1940s!), and the Lion International one an international equivalent. I used to think post-war British one sheets were only intended for overseas use too, but there are other titles with BBFC ratings that seem to contradict this. Possibly helping to back up this argument, both have the same litho number B.L. 838, although with very slight differences in the artwork detail. (“B.L.” stands for production/distribution company British Lion which was absorbed by London Films in the mid-40s.) Interestingly, on one poster the printer is credited as “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM”, and on the other “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM and London”. However, this is inconclusive, as both credits appear on British posters from that time. Maybe the additional Londoncredit indicates which ones were printed for the Londonbranch. The only slight question mark in my mind is whether Lion International existed in 1949/1950. Apart from IMDb, which may itself have been updated as a result of the poster, the earliest reference to the company I can find is 1955, although this of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist before then. This is where a good collection of trade mags would come in useful! Paul www.movieposterstudio.com http://www.movieposterstudio.com In a message dated 19/06/2015 11:58:57 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Sure thing, Dave. Better to err on the side of caution, when this kind of asking price is involved. All may not be as it seems. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 1:32 PM, David Rew wrote: The point about more research should have been done - I'll let the seller know, or feel free to log on to BIDLL and drop the seller a note just as you would on eBay, the seller would appreciate the advice. regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors Jeff Potokar wrote on 20/06/2015 2:21 AM: * The bidll copy also has the same text at the top (as the 50RR), wherein A LONDON FILMS PRODUCTION has been omitted before Korda and Selznick's name. * The bidll copy is missing the London Films logo in the lower right (as is also missing from the 50s RR). * Distributed by Lion International Films is present on the bidll copy and 50s RR copy, lower left corner, and is present at all on the '49 copy. * And when one looks closely at the artwork (the details on the man, and the orange cityscape behind, the large cloud in the sky) the artwork is NOT identical; but 2 lightly different versions- shading, detail, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http:// movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s- british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/ the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here- is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe? SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com mailto:shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com http://bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag -- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *the currency is in NZ$* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll [image: Follow us] https://twitter.com/bidll [image: Follow us] http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 -- To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
No harm no foul as you Americans say. The life of a poster collector, trawling the net until all hours cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:55 PM: You're right! I stand corrected. My apologies! I guess that's what happens when you're looking at posters at 4 am!! I did see Martin Scorsese's beautiful British three sheet today at MoMA. Very similar to the one sheet except that did have a black background.\ Again, sorry for the mistake. Best, Todd Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:45:50 +1000 From: shadow@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a-real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com mailto:da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
Hi David, This actually popped up in a previous thread several years ago: _http://www.mail-archive.com/mopo-l%40listserv.american.edu/msg29685.html_ (http://www.mail-archive.com/mopo-l@listserv.american.edu/msg29685.html) Like Rich Evans said, on face value the version with the A rating – which is clearly part of the design not an overstamp - is a domestic UK version (albeit very unusual for the 1940s!), and the Lion International one an international equivalent. I used to think post-war British one sheets were only intended for overseas use too, but there are other titles with BBFC ratings that seem to contradict this. Possibly helping to back up this argument, both have the same litho number B.L. 838, although with very slight differences in the artwork detail. (“ B.L.” stands for production/distribution company British Lion which was absorbed by London Films in the mid-40s.) Interestingly, on one poster the printer is credited as “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM”, and on the other “STAFFORD CO LTD NETHERFIELD NOTTINGHAM and London”. However, this is inconclusive, as both credits appear on British posters from that time. Maybe the additional London credit indicates which ones were printed for the London branch. The only slight question mark in my mind is whether Lion International existed in 1949/1950. Apart from IMDb, which may itself have been updated as a result of the poster, the earliest reference to the company I can find is 1955, although this of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist before then. This is where a good collection of trade mags would come in useful! Paul _www.movieposterstudio.com_ (http://www.movieposterstudio.com) In a message dated 19/06/2015 11:58:57 GMT Daylight Time, shadow@gmail.com writes: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Re: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
* The bidll copy also has the same text at the top (as the 50RR), wherein A LONDON FILMS PRODUCTION has been omitted before Korda and Selznick's name. * The bidll copy is missing the London Films logo in the lower right (as is also missing from the 50s RR). * Distributed by Lion International Films is present on the bidll copy and 50s RR copy, lower left corner, and is present at all on the '49 copy. * And when one looks closely at the artwork (the details on the man, and the orange cityscape behind, the large cloud in the sky) the artwork is NOT identical; but 2 lightly different versions- shading, detail, placements of shadows, etc. * And lastly, the placement of the printer's info, lower right border is not printed in the exact same location as on the 49 copy (it is shifted more to the left, beginning under the first leg of the N of MAN, along with the bidll copy also having the added and London after the name of NOTTINGHAM. Too many variations... and even if done for colonies, why would all of the above being missing/different/changed? It's a different piece entirely than the known HA '49 copy. More research should be done on this before calling it a for certain '49 original release OS, one would think. 'Tis curious indeed. Jeff On Jun 19, 2015, at 3:58 AM, David wrote: I guess the question for someone more knowledgeable on the Brit stuff is why is there (on the HA '49) a British Censor's stamp on a poster that was never designed to be used in the UK - as I understand it 1shts and 3shts were printed for the colonies not used in the UK, so no reason to print UK data on it is there? Anyone? allen day wrote on 19/06/2015 8:10 PM: Geez fellas ... looks like a hybrid (in a 10 second comparison). Logos at bottom left / right on HA's '49 example are on neither of the other examples, however, the overall colors appear similar to bidll example and HA '49. ad On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:45 AM, David shadow@gmail.com wrote: Looks nothing like the 50s re-release here: http:// movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the-third-man-selznick-r-1950s- british-one-sheet-27-x-40-/a/693-64326.s Looks like this here: http://movieposters.ha.com/itm/film-noir/the- third-man-london-films-1949-british-one-sheet-27-x-40-here-is-a- real-rarity-a-london-films-british-original-for/a/633-28253.s cheers David Todd wrote on 19/06/2015 5:35 PM: Isn't this the early 1950's re-release? I thought the original release had a black background and also had more color. I know the last time Heritage sold this poster which was five years ago, they listed it as an early 1950's re-release and it sold for $900. Todd Feiertag Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:38:07 +1000 From: da...@bidll.com Subject: [MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949) To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - the currency is in NZ$ - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158 bidll.com for serious collectors To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link: https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo- LA=1 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
[MOPO] [FA] ULTRA Rare English One Sheet - The Third Man (1949)
An exciting find has just been listed on BIDLL by a known New Zealand based collector. For overseas buyers please note - *_the currency is in NZ$_* - that's almost chicken feed in most other countries! Good luck to the all bidders! Or buy now and save yourself the stress! http://bidll.com/Listing/Details/420722 -- regards, *David Rew [mob] 0402 925 158* bidll.com for serious collectors https://www.facebook.com/bidll Follow us https://twitter.com/bidll Follow us http://www.pinterest.com/bidll/bidll-for-the-collector/ http://www.bidll.com Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
