Re: [Mpls] Study: Metro Smoking Bans Haven't Hurt Sales
I find it fascinating that pro-smoking advocates cannot live with investigations that prove them wrong. This tirade has no evidentiary basis whatsoever. The evidence is piled up all over this country that smoking bans have had only one,, negative effect: a temporary drop in liquor sales. For a select few. Every other business indicator in every major city and state where smoking bans remain in effect have seen increases in revenue and a significant drop in alcohol and tobacco-related diseases. The loss of liquor profits is no loss at all when put up against the health issues, which will be the next shoe to drop around here when some data can be assembled. Given the incredible social and legal problems arising out of alcohol use., a drop in liquor revenues can only be a good thing. Live with this. It's over. A matter of time. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul -- on 12/8/05 12:35 AM, Dan McGrath wrote: > This study was entirely flawed, and biased, however. It lumps Hennepin and > Ramsey Counties together, does not distinguish between food and alcohol > sales, nor does it distinguish between bar and liquor store sales. > > Liquor stores have seen an increase in business since the smoking bans went > into effect, while Minneapolis bars report losses, and many have closed. St. > Paul bars which have exemptions have enjoyed *huge increases* in their > sales, while Minneapolis bars and other St. Paul establishments without > exemptions are going under. St. Paul has shuffled the money around > benefiting some bars to the detriment of others, and Minneapolis has > exported it's revenue to St. Paul. This doesn't matter to the state, which > gets it's cut of the money whether it's spent in St. Paul, or Minneapolis. > > Were the much championed cause of a state-wide ban to emerge victorious, St. > Paul would lose it's edge, and liquor stores would likely benefit, as > smokers would largely stay home. Revenues to the state would then drop (and > a new tax imposed on bottles purchased at liquor stores would be > inevitable). > > The reported number of metro liquor-serving establishments which have closed > since March 31st is a flat lie. > > Dan O'Gara's quote in the article is one of the most significant statements: > "The blue-collar, working man's bar, which is a big thing in the Twin > Cities, is probably going to be a thing of the past if this continues." > > The smoking ban is one more front in the assault on the middle class in the > urban core. > > Dan McGrath > Longfellow > http://www.smokeoutgary.org > http://www.subversivepictures.com > > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If > you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Study: Metro Smoking Bans Haven't Hurt Sales
This study was entirely flawed, and biased, however. It lumps Hennepin and Ramsey Counties together, does not distinguish between food and alcohol sales, nor does it distinguish between bar and liquor store sales. Liquor stores have seen an increase in business since the smoking bans went into effect, while Minneapolis bars report losses, and many have closed. St. Paul bars which have exemptions have enjoyed *huge increases* in their sales, while Minneapolis bars and other St. Paul establishments without exemptions are going under. St. Paul has shuffled the money around benefiting some bars to the detriment of others, and Minneapolis has exported it's revenue to St. Paul. This doesn't matter to the state, which gets it's cut of the money whether it's spent in St. Paul, or Minneapolis. Were the much championed cause of a state-wide ban to emerge victorious, St. Paul would lose it's edge, and liquor stores would likely benefit, as smokers would largely stay home. Revenues to the state would then drop (and a new tax imposed on bottles purchased at liquor stores would be inevitable). The reported number of metro liquor-serving establishments which have closed since March 31st is a flat lie. Dan O'Gara's quote in the article is one of the most significant statements: "The blue-collar, working man's bar, which is a big thing in the Twin Cities, is probably going to be a thing of the past if this continues." The smoking ban is one more front in the assault on the middle class in the urban core. Dan McGrath Longfellow http://www.smokeoutgary.org http://www.subversivepictures.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Hiawatha Flats
On 12/5/05 4:27 PM, "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > While I'm not intimately familiar with Hiawatha's development plan, in > general, I support greater density in transportation corridors, though > that's not a blank check since the devil is so often in the details. > > However, my views aren't that important in the current discussion; I think > the views of the neighbors and elected and appointed officials matter much > more. > > One thing I know from my time in journalism is that the current Planning > Commission is strongly pro-density and hardly anti-development. That makes > it more significant that six of them voted against the Klodt project in > committee, with only Carol Kummer voting for it. I agree. And my understanding is that the Planning Commission's decision was appealed to City Council and that a committee vote should take place next week. It will be interesting to see how that plays out since there are several council members who have Klodt contributions on record in their campaign finance reports. > Greg Abbott writes, of Wendy Wilde's suggestion for mandatory recusal when > an official receives a direct or indirect political contribution: > > There are non-trivial First Amendment problems with this proposal, not the > least of which is defining what an interest group is. Should someone who > takes support from, say Progressive Minnesota, be banned from voting on the > whole range of public issues that PM has taken a position on? > > Me again: > > I think this is a red herring. PM is a broad-based group with broad-based > interests. To me, that differs significantly from a single developer with a > single significant interest. > > However, I agree generally with Greg, which is why I proposed voluntary > recusal rather than mandatory. I'm not sure exactly where to draw the line, > but I feel Ms. Kummer's vote was clearly on the wrong side of it. I agree also with the idea of voluntary recusal. Which brings up the question - if Kummer should have voluntarily recused herself because of the Klodt contribution to PIP that reportedly was spent on getting her re-elected, than what does that say for Sandy Colvin Roy, whose campaign received a significant chunk of it's financing from contractors from another Klodt Development project in Ward 12 (Hiawatha Oaks)? > Also, a member of Park Watch informed me offlist that Billy Weisman's > contribution was $5,000, not $10,000 as I earlier stated. My apologies for > the error. There was some additional analysis that Weisman's share of the > reform effort's money was far lower than that of Klodt's for the Board > majority; I hope the details are shared with the list. I looked at the two Citizens for Park Board Reform finance reports and between them, about $20,000 was raised. There were two $5000 contributions, Weisman's and one from Friends for Lisa Goodman. There was one $3500 contribution from someone named Cyrille DeCasse (sp?) and a bunch of contributions ranging from $100-$275 to go along with about $4500 in non-itemized contributions. Compare that now to PIP - $25,000 total. $10,000 from Klodt, $10,000 from Vance Opperman, $2000 from Art Petrie, three contributions between $150-$250 and about $800 in non-itemized contributions. Seems pretty clear that without Klodt and Opperman, PIP would not have been a factor. Mark Snyder Windom Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Keith Ellison- a visionary African American leader
Michelle Hill said: "...we elected Keith Ellison and he hasn't done anything for us either. What is the difference?" Michelle Hill Cleveland Keith Ellison is a visionary African American leader who has promoted the interest of his constituency and raised the consciousness of African communities, including the Somali community in Minnesota. He has influence and experience in political institutions, he's worked with the community in various roles and he knows how to work with people. Michelle Hill is entitled to his opinion of course, but it behooves him to appreciate Keith's leadership in advancing relationship and collaboration between African Americans and other diverse communities. Leadership means your community, your nation, and, yes, your world. Mohamed Jibrell Minneapolis REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Opportunities for Mpls Parent involvement
Subject: FW: RE: Parent opportunities Greetings: There are often threads on this list that express concern for the curricula in the Minneapolis Schools, express strong views and opinions on Minneapolis schools staff development, and express concerns regarding special programs. Below are opportunities to put your time, and opinions, where your e-posts are!!! I hope that several of you will take advantage of these opportunities. Your knowledge and opinions are even more powerful when shared "in" the programs you wish to change! As a Minneapolis Public School parent, I know that finding time to be on committees in the school is difficultbut VERY important and rewarding. In the interests of disclosure, I am on the Pillsbury Site Council, the PTO, and I volunteer in the school. I also participate in the PEN group as often as possible. This weekend, I'm looking forward to the GEMS competitions.and looking for some Minneapolis Public School kids to shine against some suburban LEGO competition teams. Susan Young Minneapolis Trash Lady by day Exurban Elected Official by night Proud Pillsbury Parent! Subject: RE: Parent opportunities The following is a request for parents/guardians of students which attend Minneapolis Public Schools. Please share this with other interested parents/guardians. Minneapolis Public Schools has several advisory councils that are being assembled for the 2005-06 school year. If you are interested in any of these, please indicate your interest by filing a volunteer form with the Office of Volunteers. You can reach them through the district website, or call Robyn Cousins at the Volunteer Services office 612-668-3880. Because these are School Board Advisory Councils, School Board policy controls the means of volunteering and selection. (See Board Policies 1300, 1320 also available on the website). Current openings: 1. Curriculum and Instruction: Proposed Curriculum is assessed by this group consisting of parent/guardians, teachers, principals and students. Proposed meeting times: evenings. Number of meetings proposed: 3-4. 2. Staff Development: Review and suggest staff development plans for district wide staff development days. Committee includes teachers, parents and administrators. Proposed meeting times, Late afternoon/early evening. Number of meetings proposed 3-4. 3. Gifted and Talented Advisory: Advise on the district's program and delivery system for gifted and talented youth. Committee includes teachers, parents and administrators. Proposed meeting times: in development. Number of meetings proposed: in development. 4. Wellness Policy Advisory: Coming soon. The District is required to have a Wellness Policy established by the end of this school year. Details will follow, but applications can be submitted now. (Wellness Policy is regarding nutrition and physical activity of students) If you have questions about parental involvement in these committees please contact me. Sincerely, Nan Miller Coordinator Office of Family Involvement [EMAIL PROTECTED] 612-668-4158 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] International Human Rights Day Event at St. Joan of Arc
Members of this list might be interested in this event this Sat. at St. Joan of Arc in recognition of International Human Rights Day. David Strand Loring Park December 10, 2005 - International Human Rights Day Forum / Organizing on Righting Human Wrongs Where are US tax dollars really going? WHEN: Saturday, Dec. 10th TIME: 5:30 - 8:30 WHERE : St. Joan of Arc's 4537 3rd Ave. So. Minneapolis, MN WHAT: A panel of speakers followed by workshops on HOW to organize around Human Rights violations, locally and internationa. . . And where are they needed? PANEL INCLUDES: * Audrey Thayer: organizer and member of the White Earth Reservation, works with the Minnesota ACLU as part of the Greater Minnesota Racial Justice Project. * Father Campo Elías: from Colombia, is the former director of the Social Ministries office of the Diocese in Putumayo, Colombia. He is in the US on asylum due to threats on his life. * Keith Ellison: State Representative for District 58B and a strong voice in favor of basic Human Rights, from North Minneapolis to hurricane survivors in New Orleans. * Gerardo Cajamarca: also in exile in the US, a former worker for SINALTRAINAL (Coca- Cola union in Colombia), currently works on the Steelworker's Global Justice Campaign. Enjoy pre-panel performance by: Danza Mexica Cuautehmoc, Jack Nelson Pallmeyer is an Assistant Professor of Justice and Peace Studies at the University of St.Thomas will be host for the evening, connecting the dots between local and international Human Rights, as presented by the speakers on the panel. and the talent of local Spoken-Word Artists! Patrick: (612) 360-1965 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
REP. PHYLLIS KAHN WROTE: The difference is that Keith has been incredibly effective both in the community and in the Legislature. He almost singlehandedly started EJAM (Environmental Justice Association of MN),bringing together the most incredible collection of diverse activists. He has worked on (and passed through committee) the important issue of getting the right to vote back for felons as soon as they are out of jail and has been a consistently good vote on just about every liberal issue before the House. He is highly respected by his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. MICHELLE HILL RESPONDS: This I will agree with. I too attended the environmental meetings held at the Urban League. He is quite sincere in his efforts to help us breathe better. So for that I will say thanks. However, there are many other areas that he is silent on that has nothing to environment. Since I am a Democrat and a citizen in North Minneapolis, I can and will express my opinion of a democrat. I can understand why Keith is respected on all sides of the aisle, where his colleagues are concerned, his views more in line with your and that's OK. However, his constituency needs his representation in more areas than environment. As to Randy Staten, people can change. I hope you have Rev. Staten. Keith has been a leader in far more areas than the environment. So much so that MAPA (Minnesota Alliance for Progressive Action) a group representing a broad spectrum of progressive interests throughout the state--most of those issues directly impacting our North Minneapolis neighborhoods--awarded him their Progressive Legislator of the Year Award in 2003. I am proud to be represented by Keith Ellison. And I like Randy Staten. Having lived in his precinct for 20 years and attended caucuses and meetings with him for much of that time I know his heart is in the right place. But for the moment Keith is doing a great job and I see no need to offer any one up in his place UNLESS Linda Higgins moves to the county position and Keith moves up to Linda's senate seat leaving his seat open. Steve Nelson Willard Hay REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
And I am one of those people. Keith actually was a host of a Fundraiser for my Park Board campaign and profusely endorsed my candidacy this year regardless of my being in another political party. He has also taken time to attend a couple of Green Party meetings because he was curious about what we were up to. He is a true Rainbow Coalition person not matter your political ilk. And as far as EJAM is concerned he has moved mountains forward in regards to interest, concerns and direction of the Environmental Justice Movement here in Minnesota . Another supporter of Keith for whatever future direction he seeks, Annie Young East Phillips -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Ritchie Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 12:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Subject: RE: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison AMEN, AMEN, AMEN -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 12:06 PM To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: Re: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison Keith Ellison has probably been defended enough, but I am jumping on an opportunity to agree with Phyllis Kahn, Keith Reitman and Ken Bradley. Here is another thing I like about Rep. Ellison. He is the kind of elected official that is very supportive of other candidates and the party in general. He is willing to lend his time and his endorsement to people and causes he believes in, without excessive concern about whether or not it will benefit his political career, and I appreciate that. Nikki Carlson Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 12:06 PM To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: Re: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison Keith Ellison has probably been defended enough, but I am jumping on an opportunity to agree with Phyllis Kahn, Keith Reitman and Ken Bradley. Here is another thing I like about Rep. Ellison. He is the kind of elected official that is very supportive of other candidates and the party in general. He is willing to lend his time and his endorsement to people and causes he believes in, without excessive concern about whether or not it will benefit his political career, and I appreciate that. Nikki Carlson Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
Keith Ellison has probably been defended enough, but I am jumping on an opportunity to agree with Phyllis Kahn, Keith Reitman and Ken Bradley. Here is another thing I like about Rep. Ellison. He is the kind of elected official that is very supportive of other candidates and the party in general. He is willing to lend his time and his endorsement to people and causes he believes in, without excessive concern about whether or not it will benefit his political career, and I appreciate that. Nikki Carlson Linden Hills REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Hiawatha flats and campaign contributions
I suspect most big givers give big because they expect to get back big. Records show they often succeed. Most of the money for higher offices comes in big batches from the richest 1% of the population, and records show they usually get it back at least 100 to 1. Paid for by the official out of our public resources. There is in fact little motive for them to give just to the ideology of their choice - they give to the *individual* of their choice, who is then indebted to them. Less important than getting him/her elected is having him/her know just who put them there, and will help or hurt them next time around. Many big givers give to members of both parties in a race, just so they will be indebted. The elite will fight against blind trusts just as much as they would low limits on campaign giving. Both would end bought officials, the last thing they want to see. If we want to own our officials, WE have to buy them, all of us together, in lots of tiny contributions, and/or public financing out of progressive taxes. The last is the way to make the rich pay for a system they don't like but we do, and so I'm for it. --David Shove Roseville On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, c lee wrote: > Has anyone ever pushed for a blind trust idea for campaign contributions > over a certain amount? > Elected officials often set up blind trusts in personal investments/estates > ... sure some very creative people could get around it (conversations at > cocktail fundraisers, a whisper in the ear of the candidates' treasurer) > but... > > Just throwing that out there...any other ideas for LOCAL campaign > reforms...keep it clean and creative. > > Happy Winter Solstice and a Joyous HolidayTannenbaum (does holiday come from > Holy Day?) > cheryl Luger > > _ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. > If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Progressive taxes: Income vs Wealth
Last Sunday, Greg Cavanagh had an opinion piece, "Why punish the rich for good choices?" in the Star Tribune. I was outraged at the way he ascribed all good attributes to the wealthy and all negative ones to the poor. I wrote the following piece in response, which was not published. It bears on the discussion of income vs. wealth, so I thought I would share it here: Mr. Cavanagh's Counterpoint "Why punish the rich for good choices?" is a simplistic piece of writing that divides society into two categories: (1) wealthy, well-educated, generous, hard-working people, and (2) poor, lazy, uneducated people on welfare. It has some major errors. Mr. Cavanagh says that wealthy people are less likely to take up the time of police officers, prosecutors, public defenders, judges and prison guards. Yet when wealthy people commit crimes or take advantage of the system, the magnitude and impact tends to be far greater than what the poor can accomplish. Think, for example, about Enron, WorldCom, Haliburton and others who have bilked citizens of billions of dollars in savings and retirement investments. The guy on the corner dealing drugs can't compare. The wealthy can indeed accomplish great things with their wealth, and society often benefits. At the same time, they frequently take from the very poorest for their own gain. As reported in Business Week about the 365 largest companies in the U.S.: The ratio of CEO pay to factory worker pay was 44 to 1 in 1965. In 1997, it was 326 to 1. The magnitude of this is hard to see in percentages, so let's look at real numbers: In 1965, minimum wage was $1.25 per hour and average CEO pay at these companies averaged $55 an hour. In 1997, minimum wage was up to $5.15 per hour and CEO pay at these companies averaged $1,679 an hour. In other words, the worker at the low end of the pay scale today is making a little more than 4 times what he would have made in 1965 while the CEO is making more than 30 times the salary he would have made in 1965. We have seen a huge increase in American jobs being sent overseas. We are told that it is because wage costs are lower overseas. Here's an interesting tidbit: If the pay proportion from 1965 had remained the same, today's CEO would be earning $227 an hour and the extra $1,452 per hour of CEO pay could have funded another 282 jobs at the low end of the scale. Multiply that by the 365 companies in the study, and that money would have kept almost 103,000 jobs here in the U.S. Yes, 103,000 jobs saved by just 365 CEOs getting no more than 44 times the increase in pay given to the lowest paid workers in their companies. In truth, the job savings would have been far larger because all of the jobs in between the lowest paid and the CEO have also gone up faster than the minimum wage increases. When CEO salaries climb so disproportionately to what the average worker gets, then yes, I believe taxing the wealthy at a higher level is warranted. After all, their income is going up at a much faster rate; why shouldn't their taxes? Today, the wealthy pay a much smaller percentage of their income in taxes than those at the lower end of the economic scale. Paying 10% of a $50,000,000 income is far less painful than paying 10% of $20,000 for the person trying to hang on to a home and keep up with rising property taxes (8-24% rise per year), rising fuel costs (30-50% per year) and all the new "fees" that have been implemented in the past few years. But then, only those of us in the middle or low end of the scale actually pay 10% of their income in taxes. For the wealthy, it is substantially less. Dottie Titus, Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Study: Metro Smoking Bans Haven't Hurt Sales
AP) St. Paul Despite fears that a patchwork of smoking restrictions would devastate the metro area's bar and restaurant industry, a newspaper analysis shows overall industry sales in the area increased in the second quarter of 2005. In cities and counties with the smoking bans, the St. Paul Pioneer Press analysis of taxable sales reported to the state Revenue Department found no significant decline in food and liquor sales. Destinations including downtown Minneapolis, Uptown, Dinkytown and parts of St. Paul did better after the bans went into effect than they did the year before. And despite claims of widespread bar and restaurant closures in Minneapolis, there now are more liquor establishments there than there were before the ban went into effect March 31. With more than 670 establishments selling liquor in Minneapolis, 11 closed and 14 have opened, according to the city's division of licenses and consumer services. It appears the industry is not losing its customers. "It's what we hoped would happen," said St. Paul Council Member Dave Thune, who is pushing to toughen St. Paul's restrictions and said he will lobby for a statewide law. "It's way more expensive to have people in the hospital with emphysema and off of work and suffering from lung cancer," he said. Ahmed Abdelaal, an adjunct marketing professor at the University of St. Thomas, said the numbers mirror what's happened in other cities with smoking bans. "I'm not surprised," Abdelaal said. "If we take New York as a model, it did not affect sales." But some places were affected. Several Hennepin County suburbs saw their bar and restaurant sales slow or decline in 2005, especially the Maple Grove area. Sales in other Hennepin County areas increased. Tom Day, vice president for government affairs for Hospitality Minnesota, said the smoking ban, coupled with an increase in the minimum wage, has affected the industry beyond the normal ebb and flow of business. "The restaurant industry is a volatile industry," Day acknowledged. "The problem is, there are some prominent, successful businesses that we see closing." Some people claim the Hennepin County ban has forced some restaurant and bar workers out of jobs. But in the six months after the ban took effect, hospitality industry employees filed fewer unemployment claims than in the same period last year, according to the state Department of Employment and Economic Development. And in Washington and Anoka counties, where there are no smoking restrictions, the number of jobless claims increased over a year ago. Jim Farrell, executive director of the Minnesota Licensed Beverage Association, said bars and nightclubs could be hurting, even if the restaurant industry thrives. Mike Jennings, owner of Rosen's City Tavern near the Target Center, fears that once patrons walk outside to smoke, they may not come back. "Now they walk outside, and their barstool and their car door are equal distances away. And it could go either way," Jennings said. The Minneapolis Hospitality Association said that compared with last year, revenue from charitable gambling such as pull tabs declined nearly $3.5 million in Minneapolis in the five months after the ban. President Carol Lynn Miller said that indicates people aren't going to bars anymore. Dan O'Gara, owner of the St. Paul bar and music venue O'Gara's Bar and Grill, said he's benefited from the Hennepin County ban because he allows smoking. But he worries he will lose customers if St. Paul goes smoke-free. He said neighborhood bars would be devastated. "The blue-collar, working man's bar, which is a big thing in the Twin Cities, is probably going to be a thing of the past if this continues," O'Gara said. A St. Paul ban, which has the support of a majority on the City Council and mayor-elect Chris Coleman, would likely take effect March 31, 2006. If that happens, Thune said he wants to help neighborhood bars. "The smaller, older bars fare the worst, I would suspect," Thune said. "The little neighborhood bar, we want to make sure that they stay healthy. We want to talk about how we can put some kind of package together to help them." Todd Heintz Jordan - Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc.
[Mpls] Minneapolis holds Truth in Taxation Hearing
Have a complaint about taxes, then let your voice be heard!! Minneapolis residents and property owners have an opportunity to comment on the 2006 tax level and City budget at the Truth in Taxation hearing on Dec. 12, 2005. The hearing will be held: 5:05 p.m., Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 City Council Chambers (Room 317), Minneapolis City Hall, 350 S 5th St. The hearing is being held by the Minneapolis City Council, Board of Estimate and Taxation, Library, and Park and Recreation Boards. The City Council is schedule vote on the adoption of the budget on Dec. 19, 2005. Todd Heintz, Jordan - Yahoo! Personals Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Yahoo! Personals for free REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] SW Journal seeks submissions for the annual Thank You issue!
Southwest Journal seeks submissions for the annual Thank You issue! A neighbor who shovels your walk? A butcher who knows your name? A neighborhood group that actively represents your interests? In our annual Thank You issue, coming January 2, your stories will help fill in the faces and places that make Southwest Minneapolis and its many neighborhoods the special places that they are. Send your thank yous to the Southwest Journal by December 16. Please keep submissions to 250 words or less. Include your contact information and send a picture of your thank-ee if you can. Southwest Journal 1115 Hennepin Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN 55403 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Robyn Robyn Repya Assistant Editor Southwest Journal Downtown Journal (612) 436-4368 Fax (612) 825-0929 [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
REP. PHYLLIS KAHN WROTE: The difference is that Keith has been incredibly effective both in the community and in the Legislature. He almost singlehandedly started EJAM (Environmental Justice Association of MN),bringing together the most incredible collection of diverse activists. He has worked on (and passed through committee) the important issue of getting the right to vote back for felons as soon as they are out of jail and has been a consistently good vote on just about every liberal issue before the House. He is highly respected by his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. MICHELLE HILL RESPONDS: This I will agree with. I too attended the environmental meetings held at the Urban League. He is quite sincere in his efforts to help us breathe better. So for that I will say thanks. However, there are many other areas that he is silent on that has nothing to environment. Since I am a Democrat and a citizen in North Minneapolis, I can and will express my opinion of a democrat. I can understand why Keith is respected on all sides of the aisle, where his colleagues are concerned, his views more in line with your and that's OK. However, his constituency needs his representation in more areas than environment. As to Randy Staten, people can change. I hope you have Rev. Staten. Michelle Hill Cleveland REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Arts Action Needed Now
While I was out delivering a major metropolitan daily to parts of the Lynnhurst neighborhood this morning, I heard a story that included a discussion of mortgage rates – I think. The reporter used something he called the Anderson Report, which was a survey of mortgage rates. I often hear reports on gas prices quoting the Lundberg Report that surveys gas prices nationwide. I decided right there, in front of 4936 & 4940 Newton to start the Riese Report, a survey of public art across the nation. I'm thinking of starting with questioning builders and developers about their expenditures on art for their projects. I'm also considering using public art resources like Forecast here in the Twin Cities to gather information. What is public art? I make and circulate porcelain money – coins with values incised on each side. A coin may have "work" on one side "play" on the other. ( You can view these coins and my functional pottery at: http://www.mnartists.org/Erik_Riese) I think of this attempt to redirect our value system as public art. Over 28,000 pieces of coin are now in circulation. My coins have reached every corner of the earth, below the ocean surface and into low earth orbit. I don't solicit funding for my project although my customers have paid me for coin. The coins have become a new value that stimulate trades, inspire conversation and debate & even changed the course of peoples' lives. Are they public art? Does public art have to be for everyone. Can a piece in a public place become a private monument? What about architecture? Is good design public art? When the City Council's Ways & Means Committee votes to remove $200,000 from one line "Public Art" and put it into another "Public Works" does this reduce the arts in Minneapolis? Does the city have a role to play in developing and supporting art or arts organizations? While I've been a supporter of the Mayor, I haven't been so impressed with the his arts work. It seems to me to be a cronies' game. If you are "in" you are asked to participate, if you are "out" your involvement is not only unwanted, it's actively thwarted. What does the Mayor's budget do for arts in the city? Why should we contact our CouncilMembers on this issue? -Erik On Dec 6, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Connie Beckers wrote: Talking Points: Support the Mayor’s proposed 2% for public art, as this is consistent with the strategies outlined in the approved cultural plan. The proposed strategy of moving half of the public art budget into Public Works, would be contrary to the Cultural Plan and current public art policy and would be an inefficient way to develop and maintain public art projects. In cooperation, Erik Riese Seward US@: A great place to live, work, learn, create and play. Santa Erik available for holiday parties, events and happenings. (612) 724-3217 ~~~ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] and a thankyou to Keith Ellison
Keith Ellison was instrumental in getting the State Vagrancy Statute Repealed and funding for an outreach pilot project to persons experiencing long term homelessness ...along with Senator Ranum. He was passionate about helping on the effort to decriminalize homelessness and certainly understands the correlation between racism and poverty/homelessness. His complete openeness to our efforts came at a time when our work was just starting to gain a bit of traction. Margaret Hastings Mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Outrageous or ignorant blast at Keith Ellison
Michelle Hill's statement is outline, outrageous, and amazingly inaccurate comparison and conclusion of Representative Ellison as a person and his work. Representative Ellison is a person of great character, who works extremely hard for the public good. We are all lucky to have him serving us at the legislature. Representative Kahn and everyone else should be outraged! Ken Bradley Kenny Neighborhood Phyllis Kahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can't believe the statement I just read from Michelle Hill, IE, "I also question why he has to be compared to Marion Berry. Why not elect him to office, we elected Keith Ellison and he hasn't done anything for us either. What is the difference?" - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: My Rep. Ellison Post
I may have inadvertently misinformed with my last post. "Poison in the Hood" was a phrase I, not Rep. Ellison, created and utilized for the Post Thank you, Keith Reitman NearNorth I had said: Among other efforts, his interest, research, action and activism against >environmental racism, "Pois(on) in the Hood", will have a positive outcome >for >residents here. I will literally breathe easier during Rep. Ellison's >watch. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Progressive taxes: Income vs Wealth
Forbes Magazine reports that Carl Pohlad has $2.8 billion. I'm willing to take that figure. 2.8 billion is 2800 million. I propose the state take 10% of that, or 280 million, every year, until poor Carl is down to 100 million. Then we cut back to $10 million a year, until he is down to 5 million, which should be more than enough to keep him in razor blades and breakfast food. In addition, we revive and strengthen estate taxes. The value of the estate is known or comes to be known, and clearly can be taxed. Rather than passing billions down to descendents who never earned a dime of it, each could have a few million, and the rest go for schools, parks, libraries, etc. The main problem with huge piles of money it that the never-satisfied owner usually invests some of it in buying government out from under the people, and then getting public resources at bargain basement prices (a real steal). Enough of this, and democracy is bought out, and we're back with a few fabulously wealthy parasites, and everyone else better off dead. The way to stop the rich from buying government is to take away all the surplus money they might have to buy it. Let them have the money, and some will buy, and some officials will sell, and soon we're back with the obscene class structure we have today. Big money is the root of all big evil. -David Shove Roseville On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Carol Becker wrote: > Mark Anderson wrote: > > > The tax incidence report only discusses income. That is one > > of the problems with the constant focus on income; it doesn't take wealth > > into account at all. I think that a major benefit of a progressive tax is > > it reduces the wealth gap between people. > > Mark Anderson brings up some good points about the tax system. > > We talk about the progressively of taxes based on income because the > government has a system of measuring income while it doesn't really have a > system measuring wealth. If own say a diamond mine, the government doesn't > have a system for valuing that diamond mine to determine your wealth. All > it can really measure is the income that you derive from that asset. That > is why progressivity of taxes is usually related to income. > > I would agree with Mark about being able to talk about taxation in > relationship to wealth as a much better approach. How progressive a tax is > should be discussed in terms of wealth if it is at all possible. The > problem comes about from getting data. > > Carol Becker > Longfellow > Geek > Future Member, Board of Estimate and Taxation > > > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. > If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Progressive taxes: Income vs Wealth
Carol Becker wrote: > We talk about the progressively of taxes based on income because the > government has a system of measuring income while it doesn't really have a > system measuring wealth. If own say a diamond mine, the government doesn't > have a system for valuing that diamond mine to determine your wealth. All > it can really measure is the income that you derive from that asset. That > is why progressivity of taxes is usually related to income. > I would agree with Mark about being able to talk about taxation in > relationship to wealth as a much better approach. How progressive a tax is > should be discussed in terms of wealth if it is at all possible. The > problem comes about from getting data. So, you would advocate taxing *potential* earnings first, then tax the actual earnings, and then tax the earnings again as wealth when you put it in the bank, or buy somthing with your earnings (never mind sales and luxury taxes)? OK. Let's look at this. I have $12,500,000 (I wish). I spend $10,000,000 on a diamond mine. Now, I own a $10,000,000 mine. I also still have 2.5 million dollars. It's all wealth. I pay a tax on the wealth, on a progressive scale, of course. Since it's a bunch of wealth, it will be a BIG percentage. Say, 25%. Well, 25% of my 10 million dollar mine is 2.5 million. Lucky I set that money aside... except, that 2.5 million I set aside is wealth, and taxed too!!! Oh no! I'm short $625,000 to pay my taxes. OK. Well, maybe I earned $625,000 that year. Taxed at roughly 50% as income, that leaves me $312,500. Oops. Not enough to pay my wealth tax. Now that's in the bank, and oh no! It's wealth! 25% of that goes too! Alright. So, maybe I earned double that. That makes more sense, right? Millionaires have to make at least a million dollars a year, don't they? OK. So I earned $1,250,000 that year (becasue it's just that easy to increase your income when your taxes go up). Let's see. Half goes to income tax, leaves me $625,000 in the bank. Wealth tax... CRAP! I'm still short to pay my wealth tax on the other wealth I have. Man. I probably have a house too. CRAP! If I'm making 1.6 million a year, I probably bought a nice mansion by lake Calhoun for about $3 million. My house payment is $212,000 for the year. My tax on the house comes in at $750,000 (next year it will be more)! My total wealth is now 16,125,000. 25% wealth tax = $4,031,250 I have $3,125,000 cash. Alright. I'm still in the hole $1,118,250. I better start mining some diamonds quick! A really good investment will double your money in 10 years, I'm told. So, I hope that diamond mine I bought in Eden Prairie pays off! I need the dough! Let's see here... Ten million dollars becomes 20 million in ten years. I should make about $2 million a year from the diamond mine. Good. Now we're talking. I pay income tax (50%) on my mine income, leaves me $1 million there. Hmmm. This isn't looking so good after all. I pay my wealth tax on the cash I banked from the mine. Leaves me $750,000. Dang it! I'm still in the hole $368,250. Oh well. I'm rich. The bank will extend me a loan to float that. I've got a diamond mine that's earning 2 million a year now. Next year should be looking better. My tax on the diamond mine will only be... uh... 3.75 million??? Um. Does anybody here know how to set up an off-shore corporation? Dan McGrath Longfellow REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
