Re: [Mpls] Re: Don Samuels/ 1993: God called him/ 2005: Darwin called him
On Mon, November 7, 2005 1:48 pm, megan goodmundson said: [...] > I want a city council person who does not verbally oppose the growth of > the adult entertainment industry, but then turns around to collect > donations from these same businesses. > http://skywaynews.net/articles/2004/03/01/news/news01.txt [...] Another way of looking at this is that a moratorium on new adult businesses would protect existing adult businesses (some of whom are supporters of NJL's campaign) from new competition. I think this puts her in a difficult positition -- which is why (among many other reasons) it would have been wiser to decline those contributions in the first place. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Re [Mpls] City Pages: 8th Ward white
On Wed, October 12, 2005 11:56 am, Loki Anderson said: > My apologies to Wizard for attributing her remarks to the wrong > neighborhood. Precincts 8-5 and 8-10 are the portions of the Ward, east of > I-35, south of Sabathani going all the way down to the creek . Not King > Field. The City Pages was responsible for bringing King Field into the > conversation, not Wizard. [...] Can anyone provide (or direct me to) a nutshell description of the political history of the various precincts in Ward 8? I am new to the area (I live in 8-8) and don't yet have a grasp on its politics. FWIW, I didn't have any experience with doorknockers, but my roommate told me that Marie Hauser stopped by at least once. She also had many more signs in our neighborhood than the other candidates. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lawn Signs
On Tue, August 30, 2005 8:06 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Excuse me, Dan. the City owns those boulevards with easements to the > Park Board who maintains all the trees in the Boulevards. How do we learn who is right? And in either case, what are the terms of the easements? > There are both city and Park Board ordinances that govern those > boulevards and those ordinances say "no signs". What are the terms of these ordinances? Mike Skoglund // Bancroft [...] > Quoting Dan McGrath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> Annie, >> No. The boulevards belong to the home owner, in 99% of situations. The >> boulevard, and sidewalk are easements across private property. >> >> Dan McGrath >> Communications, Dave Shegstad for City Council >> http://www.shegstad.us REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lawn Signs, Campaign Literature, etc
On Fri, August 19, 2005 5:40 pm, James Bush said: > I take umberage with Jason Stone's inference that the voters in the > Minneapolis Park and Recreation 5th District lack the ability to > distinguish between DFL and DFL-Endorsed. [...] I think you may want to doublecheck your position an attorney. I initially thought the distinction between DFL and DFLer seemed sort of silly, but I am appending the apposite section from a MN Supreme Court decision, Schmitt v. McLaughlin, 275 N.W.2d 587 (1979), that held the use of "DFL" can, indeed be confusing. From what I understand, subsequent cases have applied this reasoning. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft --- The crucial issue in this appeal is whether contestee's use of the initials "DFL" in his advertisements and on his lawn signs violated Minn.St. 210A.02 by implying that he had the support or endorsement of a political party. Without explaining the basis for its finding, the trial court found that contestant did not prove such a violation. Contestant's witness, a local journalist, inferred from the contestee's advertisements and lawn signs that he was endorsed by the DFL party and so indicated in an editorial shortly after the election. In contrast, contestee's witnesses, his brother and a supporter, both of whom are active in local DFL politics, testified that the use of the initials indicated nothing more to them than that contestee was identifying himself as a member of the DFL party. Exhibits submitted by both parties indicate that the advertising of endorsed candidates in this election campaign may have included the words "endorsed by" or may have simply included the name or initials of the party. Given such campaign advertising by endorsed candidates, contestant's use of the initials "DFL" would imply to the average voter that contestee had the endorsement or, at the very least, the support of the DFL party. To hold otherwise would render the word "imply" meaningless. Such a result could not have been intended by the Legislature. Moon v. Halverson, 206 Minn. 331, 288 N.W. 579 (1939), cited by contestee, is not in point. Although election to the office of abstract clerk is on a nonpartisan basis, contestee could have informed the voters of his political affiliation, had he done so clearly by the use of such words as "member of" or "affiliated with" in conjunction with the initials "DFL." Furthermore, any political party could have endorsed a candidate for this office and informed the voters of that endorsement. Minn. St. 210A.02 only prohibits implying that one has endorsement or support of a political party when in fact he does not have it. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] From Candidates Library Board Forum
I have absolutely no problem with selling naming rights. It happens all the time with university buildings -- including libraries -- and I never felt repulsed (for example) by borrowing books from the DeWitt Wallace Library at Macalester or studying in any of the sundry named reading rooms at the U of M. If these donations can improve the libraries, and if there are no accompanying restrictions on library collections, it seems like a reasonable way of responding to tough financial times. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft On Wed, August 17, 2005 4:46 pm, wmmarks said: > Much worse than the naming rights, which were repulsive on the face of > it [...] > David Strand wrote: > >>I thought that the most controversial and distressing >>idea to be presented at last nights forum was when >>Alan Hooker expressed much enthusiasm for the idea of >>selling naming rights to various libraries and >>subsections to raise funds. [...] REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Five Mpls Children hit by crossfire!
On Fri, August 12, 2005 11:34 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I have another idea to reduce crime. Let's invest in our kids and give > them something else to do so they don't turn to guns and violence. The > Minneapolis Public Schools is a great place to start, and the Minneapolis > Parks. DeLaSalle High School has offered to build a playing field > completely at their own expense that will help not only their own > students, many of whom are at risk for dangerous choices, but also all the > kids of Minneapolis who participate in park league sports. It won't solve > the problem entirely, but it will help. Aha. I did not know the recent gunfire involved kids who were denied access to the DLS Stadium, and returned from the future to exact revenge. Clearly this stadium should be built ASAP, to minimize future bloodshed. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] DeLaSalle Alumni
On Tue, August 9, 2005 9:58 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Wizard: > > I'm going to stop posting on this...after I respond to your comment :) > Neither side is going to change their position, and I've just become too > frustrated with those opposed to building the field changing their tactics > and arguments daily from: (1) its bad for the island and the park should > remain an open space (a good argument, one I disagree with but hey, I hear > ya) to (2) any park commissioner that votes for this plan is voting for > "patronage, special interests and cronyism"...i.e. they are corrupt > (personal attacks with no support or basis save that a few of the > Commissioners have or have had personal ties to DLS); to (3) separation of > church and state (it was argued a lng time ago and now resurfaces > with no explanation as to how this would constitute an endorsement or > establishment.) People can reach a common conclusion for multiple reasons. 2 + 2 = 4, 3 + 1 = 4, and so on. Now, I haven't followed the debate very closely, but the more I read about this, the more I find myself agreeing with positions 1 and 2, above. First, I just can't wrap my head around why the Park Board would be interested in helping a high school to build an astroturfed stadium on such a unique area of Minneapolis. (I am more than willing to be educated on the proposal. It doesn't make sense to me, but I have an open mind.) I can understand the need for recreational facilities in general, but I don't see any need for a stadium of that sort at that location -- unless it's to benefit one particular group of constituents. That brings up the second issue, which is that the Park Board appears to have a majority that favors backroom deals and application of park resources to favored friends and constituents. I think you saw that in the peculiar selection of Jon Gurban. I think you saw that in the outrageous attempt to limit free speech on park property. I even think you see that in Marie Hauser's campaign lit, which (if I remember correctly) boasts of planting more trees in the Eighth Ward than any other ward. So the fact that the proponents of this plan have ties to DLS and are vague on the details is bound to raise much more skepticism than if another government body had taken up the issue. I think that the combination of (1) a peculiar proposal; and (2) a park board majority with severe credibility problems adds up to a lot of the suspicion of this deal. Mike Skoglund // Bancroft // Non-DLS Grad. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Park Hours
On Fri, July 29, 2005 5:08 pm, Diane Wiley said: > I agree with you wholeheartedly that the parks should be open at all > times, and that the same rules that apply in other places -- not I saw the drinking issue raised in the first message in the thread, and it didn't quite sound right so I did some research. The Park Board website indicates that it's okay to drink in the parks, as long as it's canned beer of less than 3.2% alcohol. http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=132#alcohol That said, the information is printed on a picnic-FAQ page. I've never been sure whether one needs a picnic license to sit on a bench (or the grass) and eat a sandwich, let alone to sit on the beach and drink a can of (gasp) Bud. Any permitting, picnicing, or canned-beer-drinking experts on the list? Mike Skoglund // Ward 8 // Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Yellow Water + Recycling Containers
On Thu, July 21, 2005 8:35 am, gemgram said: [...] > But does anyone have an explanation for the yellow water coming out of > the tap of the houses on my block yesterday? My teeth still feel > gritty and I am going to use bottled water to brush them this morning. > I can live with ring around the body, but water the color of urine is > not at all appetizing to run over the old sonicare brush before > putting it in your mouth. This happened to us last Sunday morning, in the Bancroft neighborhood. We called the city, and they told us it happens when someone opens a fire hydrant. It could have been the fire department, or it could have been people trying to beat the heat. It went away after 2 or 3 hours, and our water has been okay since. On a completely different note, does anyone on the list have a suggestion for backup recycling containers? The teeny-tiny one we got from the city is completely inadequate for all the stuff we accumulate every two weeks, and paper bags inevitably lead to clutter. The city's website says we can use our own large container, provided it is less than 30 gallons. Have any of you found a good replacement/backup? I'd like to buy a separate container for each material we recycle. Reagrds, Mike Skoglund // Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Mpls Somali activist found guilty of immigration fraud
I am really confused about this. On 1/8/05 8:10 PM, "Barbara Lickness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Omar Jamal and his wife and children will be paying a > VERY high price for the crimes he committed. It will > deny them U.S. immigration and eventual citizenship. > This situation will throw their immediate future into > chaos for awhile. According to the Pioneer Press, his wife and children are U.S. Citizens, so they won't face deportation. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/10594906.htm > I think it is pretty obvious that gaining immigrant or > citizen status in the United States is now and has > always been very important to many people around the > world. I think when you add to that scenario the fact > that they come from a country that has been destroyed > by tribal infighting, war and rebels the stakes are > that much higher. If you don't gain immigration to the > United States and are forced to go back to or remain > in the war torn country you are trying to leave, it is > unspeakably frightful. In some cases, it means you > will be killed just for trying. Omar is not the first > immigrant to meet this fate. See, this is what I don't get -- he had already been granted asylum by CANADA in 1991, so apparently he'd already been out of danger for seven years when he made these misstatements on his U.S. Immigration papers. If he'd already been granted asylum in a safe place, why would he lie? So he could attend college in Memphis? Or was something threatening his Canadian status? I'm having a hard time connecting the dots. [...] > I think it's very sad that he will pay such a high > price for choices he made when the United States was > in a much different place than it is now. I feel sorry > that he and his family will be deported or worse that > he will be incarcerated here. It's easy for us who > sit in nice warm toasty houses in one of the > wealthiest countries in the world to condemn Omar for > what he did, but none of us are standing in his shoes. [...] The Pioneer Press story indicates he isn't looking at jail time -- if he's deported, he would be sent to Canada. They have nice warm toasty houses there, too. Mike Skoglund // Financial District, New York // Bancroft, Minneapolis REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Cool transit idea
I would suspect that one problem with increasing ridership on mass transit is the apparent unreliability of bus schedules. I've had great experiences with some routes, but have also had occasional bad experience with an early, late, or missing bus. It seems like there may soon be a technological way to reassure potential riders that their bus is on its way: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3812897.stm [...] > Mobile technology has proved a surprising success story for the public sector > in its bid to make services available electronically. [...] > And in Leicestershire mobile phone users can send a text message containing a > six-digit code unique to their bus stop to a local bus company. > > Within 30 seconds a text message is sent back giving the location of the bus. [...] It would be great to be able to send a message to the MTC with my station and bus and receive a response estimating how long I have to wait. This would be particularly cool in circumstances where I could catch another bus (e.g., wait for the 50 or 94, or jump on a 16?) or hoof it to a different stop (e.g., if you live between Franklin and Riverside and want to catch a 2). If the technology is feasible, this would be a great way to market mass transit. Mike Skoglund // MPLS (near the 7) and NYNY (near the A,C,2,3,4,5, and J,M) REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Text of Smoking Ban?
Does anyone have the proposed language of the Minneapolis smoking ban? I am curious to know what it covers (e.g., indoor vs. outdoor spaces) and whether there will be any exceptions (e.g., cigar bars, hookah bars, bars owned by employees). I noticed that the proposed Saint Paul ordinance would allow smoking outside, which seems fair to me -- especially given some of the comments here about how second-hand smoke poses a smaller threat outside. This seems similar to the New York smoking ban. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4769433.html I am a nonsmoker, but I would probably go out of my way to patronize bars and restaurants with patios so my smoking friends could enjoy themselves. Regards, Mike Skoglund // Bancroft MPLS // Financial District NYNY REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Smoking ban in Minneapolis
Quoting Laura Waterman Wittstock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 04:12 PM, WizardMarks wrote: > > > Jeremy Wieland wrote: > > > >> Given that there are smokers, and that smokers seek out smoking > >> environments, why not either pass an "all or nothing" ordinance, or > >> provide > >> for a finite number of "smoking establishments." > > > > WM: What about established restaurants whose business, built up over a > > couple of generations from virtually nothing to a restaurant that > > supports a family and provides 50+ jobs to the community. > > > WizardMarks, Central > > All smoking or some smoking in places where the public is served both > expose workers to environmental smoke, a liability for the owner and a > health risk for the workers. [...] Is anyone aware of law or precedent in Minnesota suggesting business owners are liable for injuries to employees or patrons caused by second- hand smoke? This seems like a pretty significant consideration. For that matter, given all the arguments that are flying around, are there definitive answers on (1) health risks of second-hand smoke; or (2) the effect of a smoking ban on various businesses. I've always assumed that second-hand smoke has some sort of dangerous effect, but I don't know for sure. I'd feel more comfortable advocating a change in law based on cancer risks than stinky overcoats. Regarding the second point, there seems to be a lot of controversy about this. Living in NYNY, the Mayor has argued that business is up since the ban went into effect, but others have responded that business in bars and restaurants is down. E.g.: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/public/press04/pr031-0329.html http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/18109.htm http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-23/view/columns/smokescreen.cfm http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/ny-bc-ct--smokingban0429apr28,0,1561558.story?coll=nyc-regionhome-headlines If the health problems are that serious (which should go to the liability issue) that would obviously outweigh the economic harm. But if these issues are murky, I think there should be much more discussion before the city considers a ban. Regards, Mike Skoglund // Financial District NYNY // Bancroft MPLS REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Secondary effects of smoking bans
Proponents of a smoking ban should visit cities with smoking regulations to see how they effect other quality-of-life issues. I live in New York, where the smoking ban has moved the smokers out of the neighborhood bars and into the neighborhood streets. Imagine the sights and sounds of "bar close" for an additional 5 or 6 hours a day! If Minneapolis bans smoking in bars and restaurants, but doesn't regulate smoking on sidewalks, don't be surprised by the crowded, noisy, polluted sidewalks until 2am. The city won't be banning smoking -- it will only be moving the smokers outdoors. Mike Skoglund // Financial District NY // Bancroft Minneapolis REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Court rules in favor of Homeless Person re- free speech related to begging
Quoting Neal Krasnoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Mar 31, 2004, at 10:20 PM, mike skoglund wrote: > > > On 3/31/04 9:45 PM, "Neal Krasnoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> This is exactly why I trust the Judiciary. I thought > >> soliciting money for personal gain is commercial speech. > > > > Regardless whether it's commercial speech -- an argument the city > > attorney > > doesn't appear to have made -- commercial speech still falls under the > > First > > Amendment unless the government asserts a substantial interest, the > > regulation directly advances that asserted interest, and the > > regulation is > > not more extensive than is necessary to serve that interest. > > The government is the People - most of whom are not in the judicial > caste. Regardless of who acts in government or the social contract ostensibly creating such government -- and Minneapolis was created by law, not by some sort of Lockean meeting of the minds -- if the city wants to regulate speech, it needs to assert an interest that justfies such a regulation. > Let's deposit some hustlers from downtown in neighborhood > and see what happens to substantial government interest. What does that have to do with anything? Is the First Amendment trumped by NIMBY in your neighborhood? > Time to enact an Aggressive Panhandling statute. Do you understand that the Minneapolis ordinance was *not* an aggressive pandhandling statute? According to the Pioneer Press, here's the Minneapolis ordinance: "No person, in any public or private place, shall beg from strangers for money or other property, other than solicitation for recognized charities." Compare this to the model Agressive Panhandling Statute, which concentrates not on SPEECH but on aggressive, intimidating, or harassing CONDUCT: http://www.communityinterest.org/backgrounders/panhandling.htm # Section 1. Definitions # For purpose of this section: # A. "Aggressive manner" shall mean: # 1. Approaching or speaking to a person, or following a person before, # during or after soliciting if that conduct is intended or is likely to # cause a reasonable person to fear bodily harm to oneself or to another, # or damage to or loss of property or otherwise be intimidated into giving # money or other thing of value; # 2. Continuing to solicit from a person after the person has given a # negative response to such soliciting; # 3. Intentionally touching or causing physical contact with another person # without that person's consent in the course of soliciting; # 4. Intentionally blocking or interfering with the safe or free passage # of a pedestrian or vehicle by any means, including unreasonably causing # a pedestrian or vehicle operator to take evasive action to avoid physical # contact; # 5. Using violent or threatening gestures toward a person solicited; # 6. Following the person being solicited, with the intent of asking that # person for money or other things of value; # 7. Speaking in a volume unreasonably loud under the circumstances; # 8. Soliciting money from anyone who is waiting in line for entry to a # building or for another purpose. > >> If the New York case she cited is the same I'm thinking of, her > >> "panhandling as protected speech" theory was laughingly overturned on > >> appeal. > > > > What's the cite? > > > > I was thinking of the subway case: Young v. New York City Transit > Authority, 903 F. 2d 146 (CA2 1990). You realize the analysis of that case turned on the fact the panhandling was being done on subways, whereas the Minneapolis statute reaches public streets and private spaces? It *certainly* doesn't support your claim that panhandling is not protected speech. Mike Skoglund New York NY (where there are subways) // Minneapolis (where there are not) REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Court rules in favor of Homeless Person re- free speech related to begging
On 3/31/04 9:45 PM, "Neal Krasnoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is exactly why I trust the Judiciary. I thought > soliciting money for personal gain is commercial speech. Regardless whether it's commercial speech -- an argument the city attorney doesn't appear to have made -- commercial speech still falls under the First Amendment unless the government asserts a substantial interest, the regulation directly advances that asserted interest, and the regulation is not more extensive than is necessary to serve that interest. Remember the Crazy Horse Malt Liquor brouhaha? I don't think this judge came up with anything new in this opinion. http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctappub/9609/c0952710.htm > If the New York case she cited is the same I'm thinking of, her > "panhandling as protected speech" theory was laughingly overturned on > appeal. What's the cite? Mike Skoglund // Bancroft MPLS // Financial District NYNY REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Taxpayer's League: Taxpayers should subsidize used car business by buying clunkers for poor people during the strike
Quoting Steve Sumner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: [...] > Why is it a Bush recession when it started during the Clinton > administration? You better get back to you history and basic economics > books and study better. [...] According to page 31 of the 2004 Economic Report of the President, "monthly GDP reached a high point in February 2001." Hence, the recession began in March 2001. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/pdf/2004_erp.pdf The Bush Administration has been trying to spread a meme that it started under Clinton, but once they "get back to ... history and basic economics books" they'll learn that slow growth does not equal a recession. Regards, Mike Skoglund // New York (Financial District) // Minneapolis (Bancroft) REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Get Me to the Church on Time
On 2/23/04 1:10 AM, "Neal Krasnoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > If the Hon. Rybak or other local official issues marriage licenses to > same sex couples, it would be a direct and absolute violation of the > Minnesota Statutes: [...] > His Honor, the Mayor - or other public official - would be prosecuted: [...] > Don't get any ideas about suing the Mr. Rybak or any other official for > denial of rights under subdivision three: there is no pre-existing > statutory or common law right for same sex marriage. > > You have been so advised, be guided accordingly. If Minnesota's marriage statutes are unconstitutional, there's no reason why Mayor Rybak couldn't challenge them. For example, there are still sodomy statutes on the books in this state, but that doesn't mean they're enforceable. E.g., http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/609/293.html >> 609.293 Sodomy. >> >> Subdivision 1. Definition. "Sodomy" means carnally knowing any person by the >> anus or by or with the mouth. [...] >> Subd. 5. Consensual acts. Whoever, in cases not coming within the provisions >> of sections 609.342 or 609.344, voluntarily engages in or submits to an act >> of sodomy with another may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one >> year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both. The SCOTUS decision that emphasized the unconstitutionality of those statutes is apposite to this discussion. Just because a law is on the books doesn't mean it's constitutional. Mayor Newsom's strategy is risky and confrontational, but there's no reason a Minneapolis city attorney couldn't go into court on Monday morning and file a claim for a declaratory judgment. My guess is the issue will be settled in the SCOTUS before too long. In any case, it's only a matter of time. The polls are divided, but the young people support same-sex marriage. It may take a year or five or twenty, but progress is inevitable. Mike Skoglund // New York NY // Minneapolis MN // Sodom // Gomorrah REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Get Me to the Church on Time
On 2/22/04 5:22 PM, "Bill Cullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This morning Gov. Schwarzenegger was on Meet The Press. Tim Russert (the
> host) asked the Governor about the issue of gay marriages. Without taking a
> stand on the issue, he made an excellent point. The Gov said a mayor cannot
> decide to break state law. He then asked a rhetorical question: What
> should be done if a Mayor decides to hand out drugs or guns.
What would happen if a state enacted a statute proscribing interracial
marriage? Could the mayor order city institutions to continue allowing
interracial marriage, based on the state and federal constitutions -- both
of which trump state law? I think so -- I think that should have happened
during the civil rights movement.
> It is a valid analogy. Some people think more guns are better and others
> think legalizing drugs is ok too.
Interestingly, pro-lifers are doing something analogous in South Dakota,
w/r/t abortion. I haven't seen many people reconcile the two, but I support
Mayor Newsom and am critical of the South Dakota legislature because I think
the same-sex marriage issue is (unlike abortion) still unresolved. Even so,
I wouldn't take any of the hyperbolic responses to SF ("Civil Anarchy!") and
cart them out to SD.
Except this issue implicates constitutional rights, whereas drug
legalization / decriminalization is typically considered a policy issue.
> I agree with M. G. Stinnett. We should not encourage out leaders to break
> the law. I also like the ideas out here on civil unions for gay couples.
> Are there drawbacks to civil unions that have not been outlined on this
> forum?
I think civil unions are a good idea, and they should also be available to
opposite-sex couples. However, if one institution is available only to
straight people and another is available to gay people, you wind up with
another "separate but equal" situation, like in the early days of the civil
rights movement. As long as the institutions are separate, there will be a
temptation to favor one over the other.
On 2/22/04 5:59 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bill Cullen writes:
[...]
> The mayor of San Francisco is being civilly disobedient, in effect sitting
> in at the lunch counter of this nation's double standard for homosexuals.
[...]
Actually, I don't think Mayor Newcom is being civilly disobedient at this
point, because the issue of law is unclear under both the state and federal
constitutions. Remember, it was no less a conservative figure than Justice
Scalia who predicted the SCOTUS's decision in _Lawrence_v_Texas_ set the
nation down the path to same-sex marriage. As long as that issue is open,
Mayor Newcom is still acting within the law.
Mike Skoglund // Bancroft and Financial District neighborhoods (MPLS, NYNY)
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html
For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy
Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] criticizing journalism (for criticizing RT)-- the journalis ts response
Sorry, I meant to paste in the link to the statute: Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > I regret to inform Mr. Snyder that he is, unfortunately, indeed incorrect. > In his own words he stated: "It's actually a use restriction (not a complete > ban because there are exceptions for new lawns, etc.)." > > My specific point on phosphorus lawn chemicals has been that there is no ban > on them, just a use restriction & ban on city sales -- which can be avoided > by those who wish to. But we do digress...my intention was never to get > caught up in the details of examples, but to express that Mayor R.T. Rybak > has simply not been the "people's champion" he campaigned as. [...] So it isn't a ban because the use restrictions "can be avoided by those who wish to" (1) syphon all of the nutrients from their soil, so that "the level of available phosphorus in the soil is insufficient to support healthy turf growth"; (2) dig up their yard, and replant or lay new sod; or (3) build a golf course on their property? Is this likely? (http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/18C/60.html) I have to admit, I thought I'd beaten the system by building a mini-golf course on my front yard. It was going to be a phosphorrific summer -- and the neighbor kids would have loved the windmill I've been building in the basement -- but the Pulse of the Twin Cities has seen right through this ruse. Dang. Mike Skoglund // New York NY // Bancroft MPLS REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] criticizing journalism (for criticizing RT)-- the journalis ts response
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > I regret to inform Mr. Snyder that he is, unfortunately, indeed incorrect. > In his own words he stated: "It's actually a use restriction (not a complete > ban because there are exceptions for new lawns, etc.)." > > My specific point on phosphorus lawn chemicals has been that there is no ban > on them, just a use restriction & ban on city sales -- which can be avoided > by those who wish to. But we do digress...my intention was never to get > caught up in the details of examples, but to express that Mayor R.T. Rybak > has simply not been the "people's champion" he campaigned as. [...] So it isn't a ban because someone can circumvent the use restrictions "can be avoided by those who wish to" (1) syphon all of the nutrients from their soil, so that "the level of available phosphorus in the soil is insufficient to support healthy turf growth"; (2) dig up their yard, and replant or lay new sod; or (3) build a golf course on their property? Is this likely? I have to admit, I thought I'd beaten the system by building a mini-golf course on my front yard. It was going to be a phosphorrific summer -- and the neighbor kids would have loved the windmill I've been building in the basement -- but the Pulse of the Twin Cities has seen right through this ruse. Dang. Mike Skoglund // New York NY // Bancroft MPLS REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] vacancy does not mean affordable
On 1/24/04 1:00 PM, "Mark Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 1/24/04 11:05 AM, "Bill Cullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> Margaret wrote: Vacancy increasing does not equal affordability. >> >> Is $599 affordable? Well, according to HUD, 30% of the area median income >> is $22,590. That means (using the 30% of income can go towards housing >> rule) this household can afford $564.75. A tad under what I am charging >> right now. > > This suggests to me that HUD may be part of the problem. If 30% of the area > median income (I'm assuming this is for a household) is $22,590, then that > would mean that the area median income for a household is about $75,000. > It's been a long time since I took statistics, but that number seems skewed > a bit high to me. I took that to mean that 30% of one's income can go to housing. I.e., the median renter (for lack of a better word) earns $22,590 a year, so it can spend 30% of that, or $6777, on housing each year -- or $564.75 per month $22,590 is $434.42 per week; roughly 43 hours a week at $10 per hour. That's a lot of work (and a decent job) for one person, but it's about 31 hours a week for two people earning $7 an hour. For what it's worth, the entire time I rented in the Twin Cities (until 10-2002), I never paid more than $400 a month -- let alone $599! -- in rent. I always had roommates, so my rent would consistently be between $200 and $300 a month. Mike Skoglund // Lower Manhattan NYNY // Bancroft MPLS REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Higher Ground
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > Any time the reality of what has happened to those who have few resources > but still make the effort to struggle for democracy and fairness is pointed > out > those who protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful cry out--- > Not Nice, Not Fair. Maybe I missed something, but what does this discussion have to do with "the reality of those who have few resources"? I thought it was all about one well-to-do person clucking over seeing other well-to-do people at a basketball game. Did someone throw up the barricades at center court to defend democracy and fairness? Are the people rushing out to protect this democratic and fair stretch of Highway 35W? > Our last Mayor did resort to the police on more than one occasion and > the police and National Guard regarding Hi-Way 55. Is it too late to claim the democratic and fair stretch of Highway 35W is also sacred? We could all go live in the Highway 35W Spiritual Encampment (which was created by the Vikings on their way back from dropping off the Kensington Rune Stone) and wait for the National Guard? Mike Skoglund // Bancroft MPLS // Financial District NY REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Mpls School competition
On 11/9/03 9:48 PM, "Tim Bonham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Tim, the term "Breeder" is very derogatory. It is not very different from >> the ones that were once used on gay people. Some people are flaming >> heterosexual and darn proud of it, but "breeder" is about as insulting a >> word as I can think of. >Well, I'm sorry if people found this insulting. I would have left > that word out, if I had realized it would distract people from my comments. > > My dictionary doesn't say anything about it being derogatory; I thought it > was just descriptive. And not indicative of sexual orientation either; I > have many gay & lesbian friends who have produced kids. FWIW, I didn't read Tim's use of the word "breeder" to mean "heterosexual." That wouldn't make sense, since he used it as counterpoint to single people without kids. This isn't the 1850s or 1950s. There's no reason to believe that only heterosexuals have children or that children are a necessary result of heterosexual relationships. Besides, even if it might feel like a potentially derogatory term, what does it mean? Is there any sort of negative connotation? Have heterosexuals been struggling under the weight of gay oppression? Frankly, I find it sort of funny. (Caveat: I actually use the term, infrequently, to describe my friends who want to have kids and move to the 'burbs; and/or people who bring annoying children into theaters, restaurants, and public transit. Maybe that's just some sort of pomo attempt to recapture a word that has been integral in the subjugation of heterosexuals? Rad.) Mike Skoglund -- Loring Park / Financial District NYNY REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Taxpayer Funded Bullying: Smith Parker Again?
Quoting Dave Piehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Looks like Peter Mclaughlin and Tom Johnson might be > doing their best to censor Ken Avidor's > comicscheck out some of the discussion on another > forum: > > http://www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006103.html Where Mr. Avidor writes: "The Editor/Publisher told me to keep 'The B.E.E.E.P.' out of Roadkill Bill. I don't know if the 'Excess Project' has anything to do with it." I don't get it -- where's all the "taxpayer funded bullying"? If Mr. Avidor doesn't know, and Ed Felein isn't explaining his decision, what's all the hysteria? Mike Skoglund -- Financial District NYNY / Loring Park MPLS REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Wi-Fi
Funny, you'd think the plaintiffs would be protected by their tinfoil hats. Mike Skoglund -- Loring Park / Lower Manhattan On 10/10/03 8:19 AM, "Michelle Gross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's been a lot of talk on the list about adding Wi-Fi capacity through > the Minneapolis Parks Board. Here's an interesting article regarding a > school district that is using the technology now. > > Michelle Gross > Bryn Mawr > * > Parents Sue School Over Wireless Network > Thu Oct 9, 2:13 PM ET > By Daniel Sorid > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=1&u=/nm/20031 > 009/us_nm/tech_wifi_lawsuit_dc > > SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A pioneering elementary school district outside > Chicago has been sued for installing a wireless (news - web sites) computer > network by parents worried that exposure to the network's radio waves could > harm their children. [...] REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Overprosecution- Overconviction- Racist- Prove It- okay.
On 9/1/03 10:26 PM, "Wendy Introwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> That specific racial groups are appearing in court disproportionate to >>> their numbers in the general population is a result of a >>> disproportionate crime commission rate among those specific racial groups. >> >> Prove it. > [...] > > This is least interesting for starters, Mike: > > http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:LRMKyEm3JLUJ:https://www.patrick.af.mil > /deomi/Library/EOReadFile/Racial%2520Profiling/RP_Spring02/Study%2520Suggest > s%2520Racial%2520Gap%2520in%2520Speeding%2520in%2520New%2520Jersey.pdf+new+j > ersey+speed+blacks&hl=en&start=5&ie=UTF-8 Except it's from 2002. And New Jersey. And it involves speeding, which is hardly the sort of crime we've been discussing. And it hardly seems unbiased. And the studies' shortcomings are not hard to find. It's still interesting -- it just doesn't get us very far. > Less scientific a study, but more fodder for discussion... tell me why my > scrawny white teen son has 3 times been beaten up by different black kids in > different situations... twice robbed... once left unconscious... but never > beaten or robbed by white kids? Our house has been broken into and robbed 4 > times... 3 of the 4 times by blacks... once by a white guy... yet our area > of town is 49% white, roughly 24% black and 23% hispanic. If the population > percentages were true to crime stats, my son should have been beaten up more > often by white thugs, and our house should have been robbed by whites twice, > blacks once and Hispanics once. Disproportionate numbers again. This doesn't get us anywhere, though. My experiences in the Twin Cities were totally different: 1 car theft (white guy); 1 attempted car theft / pathetic carjacking (white folks); 1 burglary (white guys). There's no way to quantify this. Plus, my "prove it" comment was a softball, because most of us assume that many crimes tend to correlate with income. E.g., if it turns out that almost all burglaries are committed by people below a certain income, how do the prosecutions and convictions compare w/r/t ethnic populations in that income? And so on and so on. I just don't see any way that these generalizations can be supported, and nothing very productive comes out of discussing generalizations. Regards, Mike Skoglund - NYC / MSP / 123 / Etc. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Is the Startribune still the Johannesburg Times?,Double Standard, Restorative Justice--Reality Check
On 9/1/03 02:28 AM, "N.I. Krasnov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > mike skoglund wrote: > >> On 9/1/03 01:32 AM, "N.I. Krasnov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> "Overprosecution" and "overconviction" denotes purposely prosecuting and >>> convicting members of a specific group at a higher rate than another >>> group. It is also a new concept to somehow label the criminal justice >>> system as an inherently racist entity. >>> >>> That specific racial groups are appearing in court disproportionate to >>> their numbers in the general population is a result of a >>> disproportionate crime commission rate among those specific racial groups. >> >> Prove it. >> >> Mike Skoglund >> Loring Park / New York > > http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/citywork/police/stats/ucr/index.asp > http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/01cius.htm > http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/01crime4.pdf Which are supposed to show what, exactly? Remember, we're talking about commission here; prosecution and conviction are not necessarily correlated with commission. > BTW, I grew up in New York. I can give you anecdotal evidence of > muggings and at least one race riot, > if it's anecdotes you want. Whether it's New York, Minneapolis, or > Gadsden County, Florida, it's the same sad story. I grew up in Hastings, MN. I can give you anecdotal evidence of bizarre, random white-on-white violence that was (literally) splashed across newspapers (and the tabloids) from coast to coast. [...] Mike Loring Park / New York / Etc. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Is the Startribune still the Johannesburg Times?,Double Standard, Restorative Justice--Reality Check
On 9/1/03 01:32 AM, "N.I. Krasnov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Overprosecution" and "overconviction" denotes purposely prosecuting and > convicting members of a specific group at a higher rate than another > group. It is also a new concept to somehow label the criminal justice > system as an inherently racist entity. > > That specific racial groups are appearing in court disproportionate to > their numbers in the general population is a result of a > disproportionate crime commission rate among those specific racial groups. Prove it. Mike Skoglund Loring Park / New York TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Judiciary and Crime
I've seen comments like this a couple of times, but it's hard to figure out where the system is breaking down. Are you talking about cases where someone has been convicted and the judge refuses to impose a long sentence? Cases where a judge doesn't impose long sentences because of the sentencing guidelines? Cases where the judge accepts a plea agreement presented by the parties? Or cases where someone is arrested and not charged, or suspected but not arrested? Also, based on some other comments in this thread, is the problem perceived throughout Hennepin County, or only in the Drug Court? Mike Skoglund Loring Park / NYC On 8/18/03 03:56 PM, "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > An honest question regarding something that has bugged me since I became > aware of its existence - why is it necessary for community members to > fill-out "impact statements" for habitual offenders to FINALLY get them to > repay a debt to society? Is this to show judges that the members of society > living in that particular neighborhood are really, really sick of > anti-social behaviour? Why should a community member have to fill-out an > "impact statement" to ensure that someone that has transgressed pay their > debt to society? I understand I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but > I'd really appreciate it if the majority could point-out the wisdom in this. [...] TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bathrooms
Someone might have mentioned this, but there are a few colleges with co-ed bathrooms, and no one seems to freak out. Back at Dear Old Macalester, for example, the floors or sections of the residence halls would often decide to go co-ed. It was sort of a culture shock for me, initially, but after a few days it was totally unremarkable. It was also a good way to confront and overcome prejudices. Coming from small-town Minnesota, I had a pretty narrow perspective on what was normal. When I went to college in '91, I'd never met anyone who was openly gay. All of a sudden, I was in a situation where I would regularly wind up sharing a communal shower with people who were gay or bi. Again, sort of a culture shock, but not such a big deal. I believe Carleton had the same setup, albeit for a much uglier student body. Regards, Mike Skoglund Loring Park / New York City -- now with electricity! On 8/15/03 04:41 PM, "phaedrus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > When society has reached a point where there is no > discrimination on gender or sexuality, there will be > no need for separate restrooms (or showers). Frankly, > I'd like to see that happen now. Let us divide the > country at the Mississippi. The west goes to those who > are into open mindedness, the east can go to those who > want to live in a culture based on religious or > cultural fundamentalism. You might be more "righteous" > and we might have more flakes, but we won't stone > women for adultery or crucify men for kissing other > men. Sound fair? [...] TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Best Book Stores
On 7/15/03 12:06 AM, "Rosalind Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wouldn't want to forget list member Don Blyly's fine shop, Uncle Hugo's, > or its rival, Dreamhaven. [...] Or, on a related note, the incredible Big Brain Comics. Between Big Brain, Cheapo, the Electric Fetus, and Fifth Element, every trip to Mpls is an expensive one Mike Skoglund NYC / Loring Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
