[NSP] Re: Pipemaking thread from NPS group
I have always given advice on pipemaking matters freely since and before I turned professional in 1978. You can give advice as much as you like but that does not mean that makes any one a better pipemaker as that depends on the individuals skill, aesthetic and business ability whether they take work away from you if you are confident in your own ability. This old attitude of secrecy holds back the development of particular skills especially in a traditional activity like pipemaking where making fortunes through patenting ideas is not likely to happen as in other industries. As Technical Adviser to the NPS until I retired I frequently gave out information on materials and techniques in the aim of improving the standard of pipemaking generally. My own income never suffered as a result. Colin R -Original Message- From: Bob Salter bob.sal...@blueyonder.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:05 Subject: [NSP] Pipemaking thread from NPS group I have been an amateur pipemaker for most of my adult life(quite a long time now). My problem has always, without exception, been lack of good information. Pipemakers are, a LITTLE understandably, a secretive bunch. I started out with the cocks and bryan book and the wilbert garvin book. Anyone I asked advice from was suddenly too busy to be able to chat. I have given up and gone back to this hobby a great many times. Only now, a great number of years later, can I comfortably go out and make the wooden parts I need well. Keymaking is still a lost art to me although Im working on that. The arrival of a nice old myford lathe in my workshop I can turn the metal parts I need as well as the wood. There will be no giving this up now whether anyone is prepared to help me now or not. I dont mean this to be about the nsp in particular, its about pipemakers in general. They wish to protect their income I suppose. Some sort of information should be recorded for posterity and to encourage more amateurs to have a go. Mike Nelsons site is very good but is sadly incomplete. Its a fun and rewarding hobby which will stay with me for the rest of my life Bob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipemaking query
This method was used in my Pipemaking class for milling out slots for the keys although I now use a router in the tool post for my own work. Coliun R -Original Message- From: Bob Salter bob.sal...@blueyonder.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:31 Subject: [NSP] Pipemaking query Hi everyone, Im Bob, an amateur pipemaker from Scotland. I wondered if I was allowed to ask pipemaking questions on this list? I first tried to make nsp about twenty years ago. The drones and reeds came out ok But I have never managed to successfully make a chanter as cutting the key slots is always disastrous. I recently bought a myford metal lathe for reamer making for other pipes and was thinking about a flex drive system mounted in the cross slide for slot cutting. How do you do yours and is my idea workable? Thanks ( and apologies if questions of this type are not allowed) Bob Salter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
Been there ,done that. Colin R -Original Message- From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 9:35 Subject: [NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags Wow! And quite apart from an illustration of an interesting bag position, (which is where we came in), even more interesting bellows with angled attitude, I'm impressed by his using the lower 4th finger as the accompaniment on the harmony half of the double chanter while the rest of the same hand works with his left hand to produce the tune. Now there's a challenge to all you makers - double chanter nsp's? - not just musettes with extra notes on second chanter, but actual double chanter (Hastily takes cover.) Richard. Anita Evans wrote: Julia Say wrote: Why have I suddenly (and inexplicably?) become even more grateful to Jackie Boyce.. and to those fates that decreed I was going to play a different type!! indeed - at least with the 'standard' bag you can pretend it was never an animal... I picked this at random on youtube, but it illustrates the bag origins very nicely I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eob8pDcXhV4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
The bags that Jackie makes are based on my sending him the shape of Burleigh bags which by the 1960's had proved to a good practical shape and size i.e. 21 in length, 9 deep with the bag approx. 12x9 with the neck curving up steeply to avoid pressing against the left arm or wrist. I make the neck length 9 from where the drone stock is tied into the bag. Colin R -Original Message- From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk CC: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 8:33 Subject: [NSP] Re: bag shape Hello Richard, Many NSP bags can be slightly rectangular in aspect and the 'corner' near the blowpipe has the potential to annoy some players. If you find that experimentation in managing the bag differently does not help, a good solution would be to order a bag with the profile of that edge smoothed into a broader curve. Enough to make this more comfortable without significantly disturbing the position of the blowpipe stock. Jackie Boyce will make you anything you like. His bags are excellent: http://pipebagmaker.com/ Francis On 26 Jan 2010, at 18:18, Richard York wrote: I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: blowpipe
Dear Tim, You clearly show your ignorance in these matters which is not a criticism but just shows the continuing problem of new folk coming into piping who have not sought advice from experienced players and pipemakers like myself. I could have explained all this to you if you had tried not to be so independant as others with the right level of experince and skill could have done. Colin R -Original Message- From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Sent: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:55 Subject: [NSP] blowpipe I think bellows blowpipe length is an are well worth looking at. In three years playing I haven't actually owned a set of pipes (although I am now close to a purchase) but have relied on the kindness of others who have lent me sets. Because they were borrowed I felt unable to adjust the pipes to suit my shape. As a result I have played regularly on five different sets, and on three of these I have had problems with the blow pipe separating, sometimes at the designed point, sometimes at another joint. I put this down to having learned a particular comfortable position with my first set, and then failing to adjust to each new set. When I did make such changes to the position of the bag as were necessary for me to play without loss of bellows, I found the new position quite awkward, and as has been said, more effort to play as I could no longer just use the weight of my arm. Unfortunately I didn't take measurements of any of the sets. Although I have observed the necessary shape for a gentleman piper, and I am working towards it, I would still not yet say that I require a massively long blowpipe. What work has been done on blowpipe length, is it purely maker's preference? How many makers measure up a customer before making the pipes? Tim - Original Message - From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: bag shape Thanks greatly to one and all for these - great food for thought here. I'm interested that everyone's addressed the matter of how to make the existing bag shape comfortable, but no-one has offered experience of the tear-drop shape - are they very rare, or just deeply heretical? Meanwhile I shall try every position from armpit downwards for my existing bag, and seriously examine the matter of neck length. Its neck, not mine. (Thanks too, Mike S, for the off-list advice on position photo's - I'll try that.) I imagine, Barry, that bellows blowpipe length also came into your shifts of bag position? Interesting too the matter of which way the seam goes. I was convinced at first that it was the seam which was getting to me, but now think it's the bulge of the square bag shape - as suggested earlier in this string. Thanks Francis too for pointing up the pics on my own website... in fairness in have to say that while the Jon Swayne huge Flemish set and renaissance-type smaller set (both all brown) are comfortable, Jon does make the seam the modern way round. In the case of the massive Flemish set I've had to mend the protective strip on the outside of the seam more than once, as it's stuck rather than stitched in place. The Jim Parr medieval gaita-type ones (black bag, light boxwood) and the little hummelschen both have the seams on the inside and are very comfortable indeed. I've never had problems with the seasoning in them. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads
I found that the liquid paraffin was the best despite what some folk have said who probably did not clean off any old oil that had been used previously. LP does not go sticky. Test oils by putting a drop of oil on a brass strip and leaving out for some time to see what happens over time to the oils and to the metal. Old Bill Hedworth used to try any oil to hand on his pipes and it was interesting to see the effect some had on the leather in particular which in some cases became like blotting paper and could be torn easily. Key pads would stick and verdigris was rife over most of the metal keys and ferrules. By all means try linseed oil and all the vegetable oils to see what happens over time. Animal oils should not be ignored such as neatsfoot oil or whale oil if you can get it which used to be used on bellows. I would suggest that the post of Technical Advisor should be withdrawn at the AGM this Saturday as a rotating post would lead to further confusion and as nobody takes any notice of what is said as in my own case with over forty seven years experience what is the point. Colin R -Original Message- From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: julia@nspipes.co.uk; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Sent: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:50 Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP oil for pipes and key pads Interesting comments. As I said, I've used a few oils (usually flavour of the month on this list) over the past 38 years (since I got my set of pipes) and almond oil was always my favourite followed by pure lavender oil (both medicinal quality) although the latter resulted in some odd looks when I opened the case. I had no problems with either but used the almond oil for at least 25 years without any problems at all. As the years passed and ill-health made playing more difficult and therefore not as regular, I started having the problem of the (leather) pads sticking to the chanter when pressing the keys . The keys lifted, the pads stayed stuck to the chanter. I needed an alternative to almond oil. Using the liquid paraffin, I found that, even after a few months in the box untouched, the pads no longer stick and the pipes still glisten nicely. My pipes are lignum which may make a difference. Neatsfoot oil seemed to form a crust around the edges of the keys quite quickly (as it does around the neck of an opened bottle of the same when it dries out). I suppose that nothing will give perfect results if regular maintenance of the set isn't carried out. Maybe the answer lies in how often the set is played/maintained as suggested by others rather than a simple which oil is best. Colin Hill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: musette
Hi Phlip, The recital was fine and I think the tuning that Francis was complaing about was due to the last pieces being played in the tonic minor where the tuning can go off unless mean tuning has been attempted on the chanter. The final groans were possibly meant to be a humorous indication of the piper collapsing after drinking too much at the wedding. Colin R -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com CC: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:53 Subject: [NSP] Re: musette Hi Francis The musette seems fairly out of tune. By 5.45 the pitch is rapidly losing altitude, finally crashing at 6.30. I didn't listen that far! As I said, all those Hotteterre pieces tend to sound the same, and yes, hard driven is just the phrase for it - which is another reason I didn't stick it out all the way to 5.45, let alone 6.30. A more delicate touch on musette and harpsichord, plus a bass viol to balance the bass line and it would have been so much better. I listened to a couple of clips of the Loibner recording and have to say I prefer the Palladians for sheer verve and fun. Loibner and co. sound very refined which although probably what the original players might have aimed for, does lose a lot of the rustic joie-de-vivre. Without that, one might as well have a straight baroque rendering of the original Vivaldi - or even a non-straight rendering, as so brilliantly done by Red Priest. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: An enquiry - Pallister family of Cambo - 3 xi 2009
Jimmy was a farrier who fixed machinery not just horse shoes. I played fiddle with him on one or two occasions in the snug at the Bird in Bush in Elsdon. He was a neighbour of Ned Pearson, the fiddler, who I remember coming out to play the Morpeth Rant at his garden gate when the Monkseaton Morrismen were dancing at Wallington when I was playing fiddle for them at the time. Colin R -Original Message- From: Ian Lawther irlawt...@comcast.net To: marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:03 Subject: [NSP] Re: An enquiry - Pallister family of Cambo - 3 xi 2009 marga...@wyngarth7.fsnet.co.uk wrote: My guess is that it may have been Jimmy Pallister There are recordings of him playing three or four tracks on 'Morpeth Rant' - Sounds like it was him from the Morpeth Rant notes A retired blacksmith, living in Cambo, Jimmy Pallister started to learn the fiddle at the age of 21. He says he just bred music and played by ear almost everything I had touched. Ian www.bagpipediscs.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html =
[NSP] Re: Route to piping
For information to folk who may have thought that the 'Ray' you mention was Sloan it was in fact my wife Ray Fisher the singer who took up the post of Secretary of the NPS.in the early days : the 'Mrs Roff' of Ian's Route to Piping. This all shows how we all refer back to certain individuals as being important in the development of our interest in piping and how they all deservt to be given recognition for the part they have played. They are all cogs in the piping machine and does anyone deserve to be called the main spring. Colin R -Original Message- From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 0:57 Subject: [NSP] Re: Route to piping Oh dear, I feel really boring now. I had always like he sound of the Irish pipes but, in 1968, I heard Billy Pigg playing the NSP on the Corries TV show and was hooked. I found a copy of the (vinyl) Wild Hills record and was even more determined to learn to play them. There was a convenient address on the LP cover (yes, NPS c/o Ray. I contacted them and they put me in touch with Bill Hedworth and I had a simple set very quickly as he was just completing one. He sent me the set (all of £36 - a huge sum back in 1972) together with his copy of how to play them (I forget the author but I copied it out longhand - no computers then or scanners and photocopiers were expensive) and started playing. Unfortunately the reed had come a little loose so there was a little correspondence on how to re-seat it and, of course, the inevitable dangling chanter happened and he sent me a new reed. I soon needed something better so he made me a 7 key chanter and added and extra drone (although he forgot to drill the hole under the metal bit - I had to do that). I attempted to play it for the next 20-odd years with mixed results . I also joined the NPS with a life membership (another huge sum in those days). I made the effort to get to the next AGM and was a little overpowered by those there - Colin Ross, Forster Charlton and others and finally realised who Ray was as well. I also heard Colin playing the border pipes (well, he was just having a try at them) - wow. what a sound. For the millennium, I sent it back to Colin R who altered the holes a wee bit and made a new reed. They played beautifully - so it wasn't me after all. Alas, age caught up with me so I can't play much now (bad joints and a hernia that doesn't like getting pushed from side to side). If the NPS hadn't existed, I doubt I would ever have played them at all so yes, I'm one who owes them a lot. I have never met or played with another piper in my life (other than seen three play at a folk club and maybe passed a few comments with them - one who I can't remember, Alistair Anderson and Gerry Murphy - when I saw Colin T with the HLR, he didn't play them) and I'm too old and feeble to make it to Manchester now to the local meetings. Thanks NPS. You gave me a lot of enjoyment for over 30 years. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com To: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com; 'Ian Lawther' irlawt...@comcast.net Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:25 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Route to piping Sorry, I obviously meant Lance ROBSON, not Armstrong below. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dally, John Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:14 PM To: 'Ian Lawther' Cc: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Route to piping IF you think Ian was long winded, press delete now. This is just for the record. Here's a bit more detail about NSPiping in the Pacific Northwest. Sandy Ross was my close friend, fellow Highland piper and neighbor here on Vashon Island in the early '70s. His father was from Newcastle, so Sandy introduced me to the NSP via a recording of Billy Pigg. Sandy lived in a Hippie commune in an old farm down the road. We sat around the pot belly stove playing practice chanters and listening to LPs, drinking tea or beer while partially dressed Hippies went about their tasks. I often worked on the farm cutting wood, building fences and taking care of the animals. It was quite an education for a Vicar's son. NSP will forever be associated in my mind with naked Hippies and a little wooden table in a kitchen smelling of goat's milk, garlic and drying herbs. Sandy eventually got a set of pipes from Colin Ross, who turns out to be distantly related to him. I hope I can be candid without starting a fire storm. I too sent letters to Colin Ross asking to order a set of pipes and more information about them. When I finally received a reply it was to say he was too busy to help. I was completely unaware of the NPS. In 1979 I went to the University of Edinburgh to study Scottish Literature. I again attempted to make contact with Colin Ross while in Edinburgh. I don't
[NSP] Re: Respringing a key
Dear Ian, It seems that you have become another victim of the chrome or nickel plated keys syndrome. What I mean by that is to do with the hardness of the plating compared to the spring material which even if it is nickel is much softer that the nickel deposited by plating. If the bending of the spring causes a crack in the nickel or chrome plating the springs tends to pivot at that point and with constant use weakens and snaps. Standard metal fatigue. What needs to be done is to file off the top of the rivet over the spring and the remove the remaining piece of spring. File down the stub of rivet left which cannot be used to re-rivet a new spring and drill a new 1mm hole adjacent to it. The new spring can then be fitted although the rivet will be seen on the top of the key. I always plate my keys with sterling silver now as it is much softer and does not create the problem with the springs. The alternative solution is to send the key to the original maker to get him to fix it. Much easier in fact. Colin R -Original Message- From: Ian Lawther irlawt...@comcast.net To: nsp nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 2:51 Subject: [NSP] Respringing a key One of the springs on my chanter has become very weak and is, I fear, about to break. I have the choice of returning it to the maker for respringing (a trans Atlantic posting job), getting a maker here in the US to do it (a couple of options - more if I consider other local folk woodwind makers) or trying to do it myself. In considering doing it myself I have Cocks and Bryan and Mike Nelson's website as guides but both are aimed at making keys not refitting them. Mine is chrome plated and I don't particularly want to drill through to put a new rivet in. How do people usually do itis it feasible to use the stub of the original rivet to mount the spring? Any thoughts and advice welcome Ian www.bagpipediscs.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html =
[NSP] Re: NPS competition results
I see that you are already taking over the role of Chairman in pre-empting the Secretary's report on the Competitions. You should have checked this with the Secretary before making a report which could have been left to be included in the Newsletter along with other views on the Comps that other members may wish to write. Colin R -Original Message- From: Malcolm Craven malc...@northumbriansandpipers.com To: julia@nspipes.co.uk; 'nsp' nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:05 Subject: [NSP] Re: NPS competition results Hi, Just to add to Julia's bald facts. We played tracks by the winning overseas competitors, which were very warmly recieved by the audiance. Well done to all of the overseas entrants ( several of whom were with us last year and are fondly remembered) We had several visitors during the course of the day; and had pipers from Germany, France, Canada, and the USA at the event. All the comments I received were very positive. The whole day was very pleasant, with much support for the competitors. I hope that this very positive atmosphere will continue to next year's comps. I'd like to thank all those who organised the day, the venue, the judges, the competitors themselves and the many pipers who attended the day. A very pleasant day which concluded with a play around both at the Chantry and later at Newbiggin. Malcolm Craven To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone
If you are travelling abroad you must get an Exemption Certificate from DEFRA at the Endangers Species Dept. You can download a form on the internet to fill in with details of where and when you or the maker obtained the ivory with details of the invoice with importation invoice number,or if it is 'antique' ivory to verify it was obtained from ivory obtained pre 1945 I think. If the pipes were made before that date no problem as long as you have the filled in form stamped and signed by someone at the Endangered Secies Dept of DEFRA. Colin R -Original Message- From: cal...@aol.com To: rosspi...@aol.com; john.da...@hmhpub.com CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone Besides saving on elephants--a highly worthy goal--it would also allow you to travel with your pipes. Get caught at an international border with your ivory chanter and life becomes very complicated. Highland pipers struggle with this quite often. Alec MacLean In a message dated 9/27/2009 8:54:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rosspi...@aol.com writes: Dear John, Julia has responded re a blind test I carried out with blackwood and ivory which was inconclusive but depended on treating the blackwood or any other hardwood with impregnated oil to increase the density to match as far as possible the density of the ivory. It never has the same effect as the ivory has on the tone which is rich in harmonics that have been absorbed by the softer wood even if it has been impregnated. The nearest equivalent in tone to ivory is acetal which seems to have the same effect in not absorbing high harmonics so giving a rich clear and loud tone. Having said that it is worthwhile trying various woods (the sorts that would make good xylophones) that have been treated with oil to see what effect is produced that may match the ivory or be preferred. That would save on elephants. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone
I have worked with some impregnated maple which was from a highland pipe that somone wanted converting into a common stock border pipe and it was ideal for the purpose and better that my rather primitive oil impregnating process. The wood is as dense as the plastic and works like plastic while looking exactly as it was prior to impregnation with the acrylic. The tone is better that the original untreated wood and I would use it if a UK supplier could be found. Once again better than killing elephants. Colin R -Original Message- From: David Cockey dcoc...@comcast.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:38 Subject: [NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone A possible alternative is acrylic impregnated wood. I haven't seen any reports of it used in a musical instrument although the second website below has a speculative quote from Woodwind Quarterly, August 1993. It is becoming popular for higher end woodworking tool and knife handles. Reports are it can be worked with conventional woodworking tools. http://www.woodsure.com/ http://www.stabilizedwood.com/ - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: john.da...@hmhpub.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:53 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone Dear John, Julia has responded re a blind test I carried out with blackwood and ivory which was inconclusive b ut depended on treating the blackwood or any other hardwood with impregnated oil to increase the density to match as far as possible the density of the ivory. It never has the same effect as the ivory has on the tone which is rich in harmonics that have been absorbed by the softer wood even if it has been impregnated. The nearest equivalent in tone to ivory is acetal which seems to have the same effect in not absorbing high harmonics so giving a rich clear and loud tone. Having said that it is worthwhile trying various woods (the sorts that would make good xylophones) that have been treated with oil to see what effect is produced that may match the ivory or be preferred. That would save on elephants. Colin R -Original Message- From: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:36 Subject: [NSP] ivory pipe tone Does ivory deliver a different tone than ABW or other woods traditionally used for NSP? Don't get the wrong idea, I'm all for elephants, even invisible ones. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone
There should be no problem of sticking drone slides if the proper degree of tolerance is observed and the wrappings are at least three threads deep. Colin R -Original Message- From: Ian Carol Bartlett (home account) i...@ihug.co.nz To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:50 Subject: [NSP] Re: ivory pipe tone I have a set of Brian Gumm pipes made from permali. They have a good tone and require little maintenance beyond a quick oiling of the pads and 'dedusting' of the chanter drones. The material is robust and basically non absorbent as far as moisture goes. It does expand when heated so expect jammed joints and sliding parts [on the pipes!!! };o) ] as well as dislodged reeds when left in the sun or near a heat source. From the look of the workmanship on my pipes the material can be machined to very fine tolerances. Asethetically the material has the appearance of nicely grained wood and not in that 'faux walnut dasboard' look seen on many cars. Cheers Ian Bartlett Auckland - Original Message - From: Ian Lawther irlawt...@comcast.net ] Re: ivory pipe tone Would Permali ( http://www.permalideho.co.uk/permali.html ) fall into this category? This is the material my border pipes are made from, and I believe the maker, Brian Gumm, pioneered the use of it for pipes, though some others experimented after him. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re chanter material.
Dear Peter, Tradition is the name of the game in instrument making where makers are sticking to well tried materials that they know will last two or three generations and will be an investment as with string instruments. When you start to mention computer aided design it is a mistake to think that this will produce perfect instruments especially in repect to NSP's. The input for any programs being used has to come from someone who has had a lifetime's experience to start with and then variables such as the reeds, the type of bag being used and the ambient playing conditions can all knock things sideways. Colin R -Original Message- From: P DUNN p.dun...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:41 Subject: [NSP] re chanter material. I've been following with interest, the string regarding chanters/drones made from non-wood materials. My first clarinet, a 'cheapish' Boosey and Hawkes was made from a plastic material. My second, and much more expensive, was made from African Blackwood. I notice the positive remarks that ivory seems to get with regard to tone. Am I completely wrong to assume that the very qualities that ivory possesses, e.g. hardness and impermeability, are shared by some of the man-made materials that have been mentioned? Interesting that the more expensive woodwind instruments seem to shun such materials. At some time in the future, might this mean that chanters and drones could be produced using computer-aided programs (I believe someone has or could produce such a program) and would this mean an end to tuning problems, whether caused by some of the holes being slightly mis-placed or by temperature fluctuations, and other such-like problems associated with a naturally made product? I suppose the downside (or upside, depending on one's point of view)) would be instruments which didn't display any maker's idiosyncrasies. Just a thought! Peter Dunn __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4462 (20090927) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. [1]http://www.eset.com -- References 1. http://www.eset.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] antiphons
Thanks to all those who responded to my enquiry concerning the musical form in an antiphonal way. I suspected it was an old form and the Wikipedia article that Matt referred to went back to biblical days which was further back than my pre-industrial revolution idea. It seems to have been a forn used in singing rather than instrumental so it was curious to have those one or two piping examples in our repertoire. Colin R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: curious pipes on ebay
I was unable to download the electronic pipes reference you posted so I have no idea what it is about: I certainly have had nothing to do with electronic pipes. I used to sort out pipes from different makers to get them playing well and in tune if the original maker was deceased or seemingly unable to satisfy the customer when having been taken back to the maker. I used to do this with Bill Hedworths pipes until I gave Bill the 'correct' hole positions which improved things and for which he was quite grateful. With David's pipes I was unable to make a similar arrangement but knew what to do mainly with the chanter tuning to get his sets working very well indeed. However I called a moritorium on these adjustments some years ago now as it was stopping my own work from being produced. It is possble that the set John Dally refers to was one of the earlier sets I did fettle and would be playing well as long as the reeds are OK. Colin R -Original Message- From: tim rolls BT tim.ro...@btconnect.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com Sent: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:06 Subject: [NSP] Re: curious pipes on ebay Is there no end to Colin's talents :-) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ross-Electronic-Bagpipes_ These are in Ontario, Canada Tim - Original Message - From: Dally, John john.da...@hmhpub.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent:=2 0Friday, September 18, 2009 5:27 PM Subject: [NSP] curious Burleigh pipes on ebay There is a curious set of Burleigh pipes on ebay. It's not so curious to see Burleigh pipes on ebay, but it's very curious to see a set of Burleigh pipes anywhere that have been fettled by Colin Ross. Or, at least, that's the impression I've gotten watching the scene from afar. I'd gotten the impression that Colin wouldn't go near a set of Burleigh pipes. Of course, if Colin did fettle these pipes they would be more valuable than if he hadn't. Anyone know anything about them? They're in Fife. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/17/09 15:55:00
[NSP] Re: D set keys (was Looking for players..)
What the player wants the player gets. In my case I have made D chanters with the top G and A in the place of the nominal Bb and G# keys on the standard F chanter and also put the top G and A on the front and back of the chanter for those that want the chromatic D# and Fnat keys that go alongside the E and F#keys. There is no standard system so it is up to the pipemaker to invent his own in co-operation with the player. Cr -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:32 Subject: [NSP] D set keys (was Looking for players..) Dick wrote My D set has a high C, and if pipemakers are interested in my opinion, I don't think D sets should be made without a high C. It's just too useful, and allows much more concert pitch playing. Probably too obvious to mention, but I guess we are to assume this means virtual high C, which on a D set actually sounds concert-pitch G. As I pipe-maker, I take the advice on board. It seems very sensible, there is easily room for it on a D chanter, and I'll always be interested in Dick's opinion (flattery is never out of place, and this is sincere anyway :-)) Which side is the key on, Dick? and where should the key go if all D chanters are to have a high C as standard? The usual solution with a standard-pitch F set is to put a high C on the left, paired with the A in place of the seldom-used high A#/B flat, but on a D chanter that little-used B flat becomes a useful F natural, while on the right side the useful g# of a standard set turns into d# - maybe not so useful if playing at concert pitch, so perhaps a high C could go there instead? And what if there are already two keys on each side? A triple slot on the left is what I used for John Clifford's chanter, but there may be better solutions - any input, Colin and other makers? Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Dear Colin, There is no difference between a course run by an individual as a private event and one run for the Society by the same individual. The point I am trying to make is that the individual concerned would have been doing more for piping in general by running it as a Society event.There was never going to be any money made out of running the event but there would have been the advantage of having free publicity and also helpn from the Committe and and underwriting of any losses. As I have said the week-long course was in the planning stage by the Society when it was taken over by Susan when she made the 'Great Escape North'. There was no discussion,it was a 'fait accompli'. Do you wonder why I am bringing to everyone's attention? CR -Original Message- From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com; rosspi...@aol.com CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:39 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Can someone please enlighten me on something as I am obviously too old and doddering to understand. Is this particular list an open list for matters pertaining to piping in general or only as it concerns the Society? For the life of me, I can't see the problem with self-advertising provided that it is to do with piping. Presumably, If I had heard of a piping course and then written a post h ey pipers, there's a course being held at That would be piping news surely and quite acceptable? Please explain the difference to me between a course held by the Society and one held by an individual as far as this (open) list is concerned (if it is open). Many people on this list are not members of the Society (hence the opening of the dirty laundry alternative list). Please inform us as to whether this list is to discuss piping in all it's aspects or only those aspects that the Society have a hand in. I think we need this clarification. If it is, indeed, NOT an open list but one being run for and on behalf of the Society, I think that needs pointing out notwithstanding the fact that the Society runs it and benefits from it (by spreading the word that it exists). If it IS a Society bases list only, maybe a change of name should be considered. Again, if it's an open list, maybe we shouldn't have details of the Society's contributions either (to make it fair). You can't have it both ways. An open list or a NPS list? That would, I think, help many of us to understand what is acceptable and what is not. If it IS a specific NPS list, maybe it should be restricted to members. Maybe a truly open list (such as the English Bagpipes list on Yahoo) should be started as an alternative to those who wish to discuss ALL aspect s of piping and where the news of a course on piping would be accepted as news regardless of who was running it? Colin Hill (Life Member of NPS since around 1972/3) - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: neiltaver...@btinternet.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor neiltaver...@btinternet.com To: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners)
[NSP] Re: the piping course
Dear Sheila, It is a pity you can't take advantage of the course after being the most persistent in asking for it. With Susan moving up to the NE it would have been perfect if she had taken it on for the Society but she decided for her own reasons to do it as a private event. It disappoints me that she did not take advantage of the Society's financial and advertising support. Colin -Original Message- From: bri...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:20 Subject: [NSP] the piping course I really hate to prolong this discussion, but just want to point out that in the mid '90s I persistently begged and pleaded, in person, by e-mail and?by snail mail, ?with the NPS chairman and committee members to organize a week-long piping course such as Susan is now doing, and was told it was quite out of the question, for numerous reasons.? For the two (?) years that the Northumberland (Northumbria?) Festival took place, it would have been an ideal?combination.??? As it was, there were all manner of wonderfully interesting events taking place in the evenings, but absolutely nothing during the day.??Dave Burleigh and Maureen Davison could not have been more helpful with suggestions for places to visit and things to do to make valuable use of the time, and for?most generous hospitality.???No one was interested in playing ?a couple of duets - probably fair enough - you don't just welcome with open arms every stray who lands on you doorstep,?but finally I was put in contact w! ith Lance Robson, who could not have been friendlier.? And Colin Ross was most helpful in fettling the drone reeds he had installed a few years previously and which by then needed some further TLC. At that point in time there were no other pipers in Western Pennsylvania, and there were fairly cheap, direct flights from USA to England.??And now, ironically, over a decade later,? there is this course, which by all accounts is excellent, but air fares are much more expensive, there are no direct flights to UK from our local airport, and I have become so involved with musical activities in this area this autumn that I can't leave.? Good luck, Susan.?? It is great that you have this course, now in its 2nd year.?? Long may it continue.?? Hopefully I'll be better organized?another year and be able to join in.? And how would we all know about it if it were not mentioned on the Dartmouth NSP list?? Keep on smiling and keep on piping, (and, yes, there are now a couple of good pipers living close by, and I do play the pipes with lots of other instruments) Sheila??? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor neiltaver...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @aol.com To: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, NE2land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
I have never directly advertised my business through the NPS or any other medium. All my activity in piping has been for the Society in terms of running events. I never advertised when I was taking the Pipemaking class I did at Killingworth although I must confess that I did mention on the Pipers List that I had a G chanter for sale. The thing that bugs me is that the Pipers'Week would have been an ideal event for the NPS to run at the time of the Concert and Competitions and would have strengthened the work of the Society and its image to fulfill the aims of the Society to encourage the playing of the pipes. CR -Original Message- From: Di Jevons d...@picklewood.info To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rosspi...@aol.com Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:23 Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available What about some 'give and take' here? What of the business I imagine inevitably generated over the years via the NPS for a professional pipemaker through holding the positions of Chairman of and Technical Adviser to, the Society? Di Jevons - Original Message - From: rosspi...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. Th is is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefis...@aol.com To: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, N’land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. - --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.51/2297 - Release Date: 08/11/09 18:27:00 AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Flaming right, I do have strong views on this matter but this is what these lists generate. I try not to be insulting in my postings only to express my views which are at odds with other folk with less information to hand in expressing their views. CR -Original Message- From: Simon James si...@simonjames.net To: NSP List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:38 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available From Wikipedia: Flaming is a [1]hostile and [2]insulting [3]interaction between [4]Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a [5]discussion board, [6]Internet Relay Chat (IRC) or even through [7]e-mail. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and such a response is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others. Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority over other users. Other times, a flamer is simply an individual who believes he or she carries the only valid opinion. This leads him or her to [8]personally attack those who disagree. In some cases, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case t hey can be called [9]trolls. Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Di Jevons [10...@picklewood.info wrote: What about some 'give and take' here? What of the business I imagine inevitably generated over the years via the NPS for a professional pipemaker through holding the positions of Chairman of and Technical Adviser to, the Society? Di Jevons - Original Message - From: [11]rosspi...@aol.com To: [12]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: [13]suzefis...@aol.com To: [14]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attend ing or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee -L-230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation BB -L-140 - -L-245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, Nland NE24 3JA 07764 483595 [15]suzefis...@aol.com ___ _ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html =2 0 ___ _ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [17]www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.51/2297 - Release Date: 08/11/09 18:27:00 -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulting 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interaction 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_board 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail 8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_attacks 9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) 10. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 11. mailto:rosspi...@aol.com 12.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Agreed. CR -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:13 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Well said colin (Hill, of course) I have been reading this list (both lists) over the past month with a growing sense of detatchment and loss of interest. I wonder if I can really be bothered to open any new message, and very likely read yet more griping and point-scoring, or whether just to hit the delete button, and send NPS and NSP alike to join all the other spam. We have had the endless what is proper piping? debate yet again (have the Taliban got an internet discussion list about true Islam, I wonder? If so it must be very similar), continuing point-scoring about the presidency, about the society rules or lack of them, pipe-makers and pipe-making books and what the society has/hasn't/should/shouldn't have done about them, and now this latest extraordinary outburst. The suggested distinction between NPS discussion and NSP (Dartmouth) list isn't really being observed, often because the subject matter applies to both. Personally, I don't bother to look closely at the acronym to see what list a posting is meant for, I still read them all - and I'm sure most of us who have subscribed to both do the same. I used to follow the discussions with interest, and often contribute to20 them, but the level of debate recently (with a few honourable exceptions) has sunk so low I'm tempted to unsubscribe from both lists. Letting my Society subsciption lapse sometimes seems like a good idea too. Please can we have a Summer recess, or a moratorium or something, and all come back refreshed and nicer people, ready to discuss piping and its music tolerantly and positively? Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the Society's internal battles. Just fight it out among yourselves and let us know the result by old-fashioned snail-mail newsletter when all the blood has been cleaned up. Philip - Original Message - From: colin cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available I'm, glad someone else aid it first. I wasn't aware that this particular list was only for NPS events and news. I thought it was a general list for anyone interested in any aspect of the pipes. So, if a course is being run and ISN'T held by the NPS we can't read it/post it etc? This puerile twaddle has got to stop before we all leave the list and, the way it's going, the Society too. Please put personal feeling aside and talk pipes and piping. If non-society events can't be discussed, what's the point of us non-Northeasteners bothering to belong to the list. I certainly can't get to Newcastle for an event (too far, too expensive, too ill to travel that distance). OK, if them's the rules How about starting a NEW list where we can discuss ANYTHING to do with piping then? I would agree, however, that this topic would not be permitted in the discussion list (which is for members only). I fail to see how a general, public list (not linked to the NPS as such) can disallow private courses, tutoring, pipe sales etc. I know that certain society members consider themselves a bit of a clique. Most of us don't. We love the pipes (whether we play or not) and enjoy talking about them. I would be most interested to read about, say, KT doing a concert here. Apoplectic fits from many members I suppose. Very sad. This list used to be very open (and I've been here for a long time as well) and honest. Now it's a point-scoring forum. I no longer look forward to reading the mails as I know what's coming. Sorry but I'm really getting fed up with reading the snide remarks these days (plus most is lost on me as I don't know the people concerned). Bah, Humbug... Colin Hill - --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.51/2297 - Release Date: 08/11/09 18:27:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefis...@aol.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, N’land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
Yes, for goodness sake. If Susan had come up here and run the course as a Society event that would have been the sensible, non ego- tripping, thing to do especially as she was taking advantage of running it between the Society events of the Competitions and the Concert. A lot of folk beleive it is a Society event because of its position in the calender when it is not. CR -Original Message- From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:56 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefis...@aol.com To: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please conta ct me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th – Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee – £230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation – BB £140 - £245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants’ expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, N’land NE24 3JA 07764 483595 suzefis...@aol.com AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available
The difference is that this is a course run by an individual for profit and not an organisation. CR -Original Message- From: Simon James si...@simonjames.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:01 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available The Halsway Course has regularly been advertised here Colin with many of the same tutors ( including yourself) - what's the difference? On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:41 PM, [1]rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: [2]suzefis...@aol.com To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24 Subject: [NSP] Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available There are still a few places left on this course, if anyone is interested in attending or would like some more information please contact me offlist. Thanks Susan. 2nd NORTHUMBRIA PIPING WEEK Sunday 11th Friday 16th October 2009 A residential piping course suitable for all playing levels (except absolute beginners) based in a licensed hotel in Whitley Bay. Tutors for the week include Andy May, Chris Ormston, Chris Evans. Plus other guest tutors and performers. Limited accommodation for non-playing partners. Some non-residential playing places will be available. Costs: Tuition (over 5 days), events, outings etc. Includes lunch, tea and coffee -L-230 per player (individual lessons may be available at extra cost) Accommodation BB -L-140 - -L-245 for 7 nights (depending on level of facilities chosen) Evening meals at participants expense Part-week bookings will be considered. For further details and an application form contact: Susan Craven 166 Plessey Road, BLYTH, Nland NE24 3JA 07764 483595 [4]suzefis...@aol.com ___ _ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ _ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- References 1. mailto:rosspi...@aol.com 2. mailto:suzefis...@aol.com 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:suzefis...@aol.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: 7 key Evans set for sale
I think that anyone in UK who may buy the pipes will still have to pay duty on them as exemption from duty only applies to pipes being sent back to the maker for adjustment and then to be sent back to the sender. CR -Original Message- From: Patrick Jones irishflutest...@gmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 2:48 Subject: [NSP] 7 key Evans set for sale Greetings NSPers, I am (still) selling my personal set of Evans pipes. It's a lovely 7-key set with no issues at all. I will ship free worldwide. There are pictures and more information here: [1]https://www.irishflutestore.com/newsite/products.php?c1=107 There will be no customs to pay for anyone purchasing in Great Britain as the pipes were manufactured there. This beautiful set deserves to be played and I just don't get it done (far too many irons in the fire). All offers will be considered. As I am also (when not being a veterinarian) in the intrument business, most instruments are the same as cash to me. So feel free to make an offer or trades or dough as you wish. :) -- Best, Doc Irishflutestore.com -- References 1. https://www.irishflutestore.com/newsite/products.php?c1=107 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
In the original reprint of the Peacock Tunes I did not indicate metronome markings and I am not sure if I was involved in setting them for the current reprint. I had felt it was useful to indicate something for new players not familiar with the idiom and generally erred on the slower side of the playing speed as there was a tendency to play the tunes and particularly the airs with variations too fast encouraged by the appearance of all those semi-quavers as the variations developed. I know of one player who is still convinced they should be played at break-neck speed but as I got to know the tunes I realised that a steady march tempo was all that was needed as long as you got the pulse right. The 120 marking for 'All the Night' is a little too fast I agree but it depends how you are feeling and what time of day you are playing the tune. With all the metronome markings a small percentage either way will get you where you want to be and the markings are useful in that respect. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
I am pleased to read about the respect given to Jimmy Little up at Alnwick. The group of pipers at Morpeth who mostly play from music and sound as 'flat as the paper the music is printed on' are not interested in any input from people like myself. They seem to be more concerned about all starting together and playing at a speed the slowest can manage which is nothing to do with 'life and bounce' in the music. Style comes second or maybe as a result of getting life into the music. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: New NPS president
Julia has stated the rules re the election of a new President as they are and the Committee decided to stick to this and the secrecy involved when in my opinion it did need to be opened up to the membership and from a selection made by the Committee a small group from the executive officers to make the decision who to ask to take over the role. This was an exceptional circumstance with the death of Jim Bryan just into his new term of office and I think the selection procedure needed to be looked at but the committee decided not to which was one of the reasons why I had to resign since there was no understanding on their part as to to my opinion. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: New NPS president
Dear Paul, You show exactly what is wrong with the Society at the moment with two groups at each others throats due to basic misunderstandings of what thet think is the right thing to do. The main problem is that we have two groups within the Society with all the negative things being said about a number of things that are very often not here in fact but is just part of group dynamics. The reason I retired was that certain folk could not see this happening and my ideas to unify the membership were not being understood. I am afraid that postings like yours are just likely to inflame the situation further and lead to increased polarisation of opinions instead of trying to understand what is going on and trying to rectify it. Let us all try to work out a positive way to get together and beware of individuals who have their own personal antagonisms influencing those around them to say the things that are being flung around at the moment. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NPS Presidency etc
Just about my own sentiments on the present situation. I was reading Machiavelli's 'The Prince' recently and he was writing about 'malcontents' and ways of dealing with them. I am not suggesting we should resort to his methods but the problem with the Society have started with similar malcontents or dissadents who have spread their influence over the last four years or so to create the present unpleasantness in the Society. Yes, the solution is to get on with playing the pipes and not piping politics. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Tommy Breckons' funeral
Tommy was one of the last pipers to have known the Clough's and it was a sense of the end of an era when I heard he had died last Wednesday. For those of you who live locally the funeral service is at St. Cuthbert's in Bellingham at 2pm. Colin R AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut Dry Dolly
Dear Richard, A corn dolly is something to do with the harvest that is made with corn stalks. All sorts of original and traditional designs have been made either as fertility symbols or to be worn on the lapel to show you were available for hire as a farm worker or were hired. The term 'cut and dry' obviously had more meaning in the 18th Cent or earlier when the tune was written and named but it just simply refers to the corn stalks and what they were used to make, apart from musical instruments blown in the mouth with holes burnt into the stalk and the end chewed to make a double beating reed like a direct forerunner to our own NSP chanter with its parallel bore. Cheers, Colin R -Original Message- From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 9:37 Subject: [NSP] Cut Dry Dolly To reveal myself as a Softie Southerner who probably pronounces Bath as Barth and thinks there are only wolves polar bears North of Watford ;-) ...please, what is a Cut Dry Dolly? It suggests corn stooks to me, but this might be the wrong tree entirely. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Re:
Beware of the press. The same article had Katherine pictured in her usual langorous pose which even she might be getting a bit sick of by now. Whatever might be said of her and her style of piping you cannot deny she has ability in her fingering and compositional talents and if she keeps it up will be an asset to Northumbrian piping even if she does lift off more than one finger at a time and plays flat fingered. With Alice Burns she is providing the sound of the NPS on the Folk orchestra at a high level of performance. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: i...@gretton-willems.com; pipers list nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:40 Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: No I do not - curiousity sattisfied? My thoughts and concerns lie with the ridicule facing Northumbrian piping and the child herself as a consequence of publicity and unheeded advice. Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:05:00 +0200 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: i...@gretton-willems.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Just a tiny question, Lisa. You don't happen to have a child of your own who enters NSP competitions, do you? Just curious. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [mailto:lisaridley6...@hotmail.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 11:45 To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets it from - Jessicas mum Catherine Lamb, 42, a nursery nurse, said: As soon as Jessica picked up the Northumbrian pipes she was a little genius. She could play a tune straight away. We just knew she was going to be fantastic at it, she was a natural. The absurdity of the whole article is summed up by the papers suggestion that the northumbrian pipes were an unknown instrument until K Tickell came on the scene..sums up their naiivety really! [1]http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/ schoolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ LR __ Share your photos
[NSP] Re: Jack Armstrong and Pat Jennings
This came to me but I can't help. Anyone out there able to. Colin Ross Dear Mr Ross I have just found in my collection of folk music The Rout of the Blues – Robin and Barry Dransfield. One of the pieces of music is The Waters of Tyne; unbelievable beautiful music. On the sleeve Barry says he heard Jack Armstrong and Pat Jennings’ recording of this piece of music recorded at a Festival Hall concert; many years ago of course. Is it possible you would know where I can buy this recording, or indeed any recording of this piece of music played on the Northumbrian pipes? I should be most grateful to hear from you. Many thanks Lilian Dell I found your society on the website – I googled it! -Original Message- From: Lilian Dell lj.d...@btinternet.com To: chair...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk Sent: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:18 Subject: Jack Armstrong and Pat Jennings Dear Mr Ross I have just found in my collection of folk music The Rout of the Blues – Robin and Barry Dransfield. One of the pieces of music is The Waters of Tyne; unbelievable beautiful music. On the sleeve Barry says he heard Jack Armstrong and Pat Jennings’ recording of this piece of music recorded at a Festival20 Hall concert; many years ago of course. Is it possible you would know where I can buy this recording, or indeed any recording of this piece of music played on the Northumbrian pipes? I should be most grateful to hear from you. Many thanks Lilian Dell I found your society on the website – I googled it! AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: J Allen
Here,here! Colin R -Original Message- From: Barry Say barr...@nspipes.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:00 Subject: [NSP] J Allen On 12 Mar 2009 at 0:46, Anthony Robb wrote. Hi All, I have sent Anthony Robb a copy of my e-mail suggesting the genesis of the tune Jimmy Allen. The tune first appearred in print in an EFDSS publication in the early 1960s. Since then it has passed into the wider English musical tradition under the name Jimmy Allen. The tune was rieved from Scotland. It apparently has 3 tenths of nothing to do with any Northumbrian tradition except the one of stealing and changing other people's tunes which we do very well. It also has no relation to the piper, horse thief and multiple military deserter, J Allen Esq (late of Durham workhouse). If the NPS were to try and change the title of such a widespread tune, it would look like ridiculous pedantry. Like it or not, the tune Jimmy Allen is now part of the English musical heritage. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Tradition and dance forms
Thanks Paul for injecting a bit of commonsense into all this purist debate of the Wonderful World of Ranting and its exponents belonging to the Dead Ranters Society when all they were doing were playing tunes that they had not been to lessons to learn how to play but just liked playing or even composing the tunes. This was our approach with the High Level Ranters- ask Ali Anderson about that- but obviously it didn't work as we don't feature in the Great Debate. Sorry for calling Alistair 'Ali' but if we are to get things right in our NPS tune titiles maybe we should get back to basics and call 'wor Jimmy, Jacobus Allan. I was going to say 'here,here' again to Paul's message but I realised my previous mistake in registering my approval where aurally it may be correct but not in fact. An example of where following the oral picking up of the House of Commons expression of approval by MP's has gone wrong in the hands of a member of the NPS who are accused of being illiterate. Colon Ros Paul Gretton (Schimmert, Holland) -Original Message- From: Paul Gretton i...@gretton-willems.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:59 Subject: [NSP] Tradition and dance forms One thing that might be worth considering in the context of the debate here over the past few days is that in at least one another tradition, the way a dance-based genre was originally danced need not determine how it later came to be played. I'm referring to classical music (or Western art music, mainstream music... whatever you care to call it). Bach made great use of dance forms, for both harpsichord and other instruments, but not with a view to his music being danced to. The minuets in Mozart's symphonies are well away from the social dance from which they derive. Wagner called Beethoven's 7th Symphony the apotheosis of the dance, but he didn't mean that it was actually music for dancing. The Strauss family's waltzes can (perhaps) be danced to but are in fact subtle concert pieces. Mahler makes much use of marches and dances but how the Austro-Hungarian armies actually marched or danced in the pub is only relevant in that it underlies Mahler's ironical use of these forms. My point would be that traditions develop in all kinds of ways under all kinds of influences - they go their own way. What they were like originally may come to be irrelevant. That said, returning to the roots may well be valuable and refreshing: thank God for historically informed performance of Baroque music, for example, and for Allan MacDonald's approach to piobaireachd. But we are not likely to want to hear the Blue Danube played as if it were a Laendler, the folk dance from which it derives. Sorry to rant on about posh stuff like this. I shall reel off to the pub for a quick clog dance. Paul Gretton (Schimmert, Holland) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Chanter hole spacings
Just to mention that Mike nelson used my hole spacings on his chanters which he graciously acknowledged on a diagram of chanter hole spacings he produced in the early days. Colin R -Original Message- From: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 8:14 Subject: [NSP] Chanter hole spacings Hello Folks Peter Ashby mentioned this forum at last night's Caedmon Piping class and I thought I'd sign up. I believe there has been recent discussion re hole spacings on chanters with a request for pipers to submit the measurements of their own instruments in order find an average. This sounds to me like a rather pointless exercise as so much work has been put into this in the past. If the aim is to standardise hole spacings to play near concert F with a good bright reed then Mike Nelson has done this to near perfection. I have seen similar spacings used by Colin Ross. Both of these offer a range of good-toned pitch from concert F (A = 440Hz) to F + 25 (A=446Hz) depending on reed dimensions. Philip Gruar also uses spacings very close to these with similar beautiful results. These spacings are readily availble from Colin or Mike. Then, of course, we have the chanter spacings which Robert Reid used and are used as a model by David Burleigh. These spacings look similar to those mentioned above at the top of the chanter but are 5mm shorter by the time we reach bottom D. Standard reeds moved in towards the chanter to bring it in tune moves the pitch to a range from F + 25 (A = 446Hz) to F+ 50 (A = 453Hz). As David has made over 3,000 sets to this pattern I find that aiming for F = + 25 (A = 446Hz) is a good compromise for teaching groups and was the pitch I asked pipers to aim for on The Cool Breath Tour of New Zealand in January. I have heard that this strategy worked well even in my absence (for family reasons, Heather I returned home prematurely) and resulted in a good sounding CD of massed pipes playing (21 sets). You can judge for yourselves when it is released shortly. I own beautiful chanters made by all of the above makers and know them intimately. They all sound tuneful and sweet. At the moment I use F chanters at 440, 446, 452 and 456 for individual teaching. (Squeezing harder / easing off to get a 6Hz shift will always compromise tone). Finally, it should be remembered that hole spacings themselves are not the end of the story. Hole size also makes a fair contribution to pitch as does the bore. I hope I've managed to add something useful to the discussion. Anthony Robb -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Measureing Tips
Dear Malcom, I wish you could ask pipemakers about your ideas before putting it on the List. The idea of measuring from the shoulder was the original way of marking the hole centres and I used it in my class for some time before discovering that pupils' ideas of what was 5/8 varied from an 1/8 either way. This is the length of the tenon that fits into the chanter stock. The result was that when it came to tuning the chanter there was a wide variation in the pitch of the notes from top to bottom. I then decided to measure from the top of the chanter which was much more reliable. The variation causing trouble after that was to do with the exact taper and length of the reed seating tool to get the reed seating the same for subsequent chanters and of course getting a standard reed made. I am not sure what you are referring to in connection with the bore. This should not be reamed or drilled out but by all means make a bore cleaner/polisher from a lenght of 1/8 welding rod with thread wrapped around the end for about a couple of inches so that it fits the bore nicely and can be used to seal and polish the bore lining. As Technical Advisor to the NPS I am not intending to discourage folk from offering constructive tips but check these out first from someone with more experience. Cheers, Colin R -Original Message- From: malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:15 Subject: [NSP] Measureing Tips Dear Pipers; thank you to those already responding to my request for tone hole measurements especially pipe makers whom so very kindly have taken this survey in the spirit of good faith that it is meant to be. I am acutely aware that some of us don't want to upset a good playing chanter by messing about with a reed that has taken years to set up and play as you want it to so here is a compromise measureing method that can be used as long as it is made idiod proof (especially to me) where you have measured it from. Take measurements from the shoulder where it meets the chanter stock ferrule. Also some may be having trouble in measureing the bore of the chanter. If you have no drill bits of the size to produce a snug fit at around 11/64 (please don't force anything into the bore) A rolled up piece of writing paper may be inserted into the bottom of the chanter after first removing the wad of cotton wool and the diameter can then be measured of the writing paper as close to the woodwork as possible before it starts to flare out. Make sure to replace the cotton wool or cotton bud which ever has been taken out. Please excuse the intrusion onto your PC once more and now I'll bog off Thank you Malcolm. -- This message was sent on behalf of malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/topic.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] plastic pipes
The best person to comment on this would be Richard Johnstone who has been using them in schools on loan from the Sage, Gateshead who had them made from a grant awarded some years ago where they had £25,000 to make 100 sets which obviously limited what could be done with £250 per set. What turned out were simple chanter three drone sets that one the face of it would have been suitable for beginners to get started on. However the children that Richard gave the sets to wanted to get on to 'real' pipes as quickly as possible. Difficult to know their reasons but may have been due to the feel of the pipes, the reeding, the tone or the appearance. I kow that the appearance was marred by a clumsy drone switch at the end of the drone instead of the traditional system which no doubt worked out as being an expensive feature. The finger holes were not smoothed off which was mentioned by the children as it caused squeaking and felt uncomfortable. Richard asked if I could supply 'real' sets made from wood to get over the problem which I did and they have four sets to help in the transition to the keyed sets he provides as thet get on to the extended range of more advanced tunes. There is nothing wrong with plastic as a material for pipes as I have made an NSP, an SSP and a Border pipe which are all being played in Canada with no trouble at all and in fact suiting the more variable 0Aclimate out there compared to UK. Looking at the sets they look as though they are made from ebony or blackwood and tonewise they are no different from wood and in fact better in some respects. It all depends on how the plastic sets are made with real leather bags and a good set of reeds. Colin R -Original Message- From: pipe...@tiscali.co.uk pipe...@tiscali.co.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 20:23 Subject: [NSP] Re: malcom's final solution Colin, Some four to five years ago Mike Nelson devoted a great deal of time and effort to producing a set of pipes suitable for use in schools. The chanter was made from a plastic composite material so were parts of the drones. The idea was that the pipes should be produced as cheaply as could be consistent with sounding as close to normal pipes as possible. The pipes had to be made to stand the knocks and pressures put on them by the children. I remember Mike saying that there were several problems with actually getting the chanters etc. into production but these were overcome and a protoyype set was produced for evaluation. Anthony Robb became involved and I remember him playing a set at the Rothbury weekend course. I have not been involved closely with piping for 2or 3 years now so can someone update us on how the sets progressed and has the scheme been a sucess in schools? Prehps there is a20place for beginners sets, or part sets, to be made from composite materials as there must be those who are put off taking up the pipes because of the relativly high initial cost. Dicuss!!! Regards to all, Guy Tindale Original Message From: cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk Date: 07/03/2009 18:31 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subj: [NSP] Re: malcom#39;s final solution Excuse my ignorance on this but, many years ago (and I do mean MANY - possibly back in the 70's or 80's), there was a discussion regarding making plastic chanters for NSP as an aid to teaching in schools (thus swapping the pipes for the ever present recorder for music lessons etc). I notice quite a few Scottish smallpipes now have the plastic option but I haven't seen plastic NSPs. Plastic, of course, encompassing a number of man-made materials - as with clarinets etc. Obviously, production of plastic pipes would be quite useless if the chanters have to be tuned on an individual basis (and probably take more time - plastic not being as amiable to work with as wood). Is this one of the reasons why it never happened - that, even in plastic, each chanter would have to be tuned by hand? Just wondering. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: Malcolm Sargeant malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: mal com's final solution Dear Malcolm, Yes of course - I read your post more carefully after sending mine, and see that you were in fact referring to an old chanter rather than something one of our current pipemakers had done. Sorry to have reacted over-hastily! I agree that some research and collating of measurements may be interesting and useful, though of course finger hole positioning is, and always has been with all wind instruments, a compromise between theoretical calculated positions and positions where the player's fingers can move most easily, and then undercut and adjusted for accurate tuning - making compromises and decisions to accomodate the balance between pure and tempered intevals. I do drill my fingerholes in the same
[NSP] first 30 tunes
The NPS has just published a small tune book inpsired by the Boulting brothers who found they couldn't join in at a session I was leading at the North American Pipers' Convention at Killington in 2007. They asked a number of pipers to contribute their collection of 30 tunes that they thought should be essential basic repertoire that everyone should know, to help themselves and other pipers from different airts and parts when they got together and could all join in. The book is now printed and available from the NPS. At the time they wanted a CD to accompany the book to help folk who found it difficult to pick iup a tune from the dots. Unfortunately we could not find any one to mastermind that part of the exercise and it has not been produced yet. If any one out there is willing to collect recordings of the tunes and is then able to produce a CD please contact Julia Say the Secretary of the NPS to arrange this. It has already attracted criticism from one of our pipers who is 'deeply disappointed' that the CD is not with the book as originally planned and who thinks that it will do real damage to what is essentially an oral tradition. He quotes the late Tom Anderson of Shetland who 'rightly' said 'Never try to learn a tune you don't already know'. This of course is a matter of debate,i.e. oral v learning from printed music. It is interesting that the same piper never found any course to complain that I had taken most of the music for the Cut Dry#1 LP from printed souces as there was no one alive who had those old tunes in their repertoire that they had learnt from a previous generation. This narrow view in my mind would prevent any advantage to be taken from Matt's recent publication of the 1777 Vicker's MS. I have my own views on presenting recordings of tunes with tune books as the style of playing from the various players would be imprinted on learners which could be a bad thing in some ways as suggesting that this was the 'right' way to play the tunes. Maybe a neutral instrument should be used to just demonstrate the way the tune may be played. Colin R AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Am I tone deaf?
-Original Message- From: rosspi...@aol.com To: muse...@tiscali.co.uk CC: n...@csdartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:06 Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Am I tone deaf? I haven't tried the test yet but as far as I am concerned the tuning I do is always in relation to a fixed drone when the beat comes in to help you with unison or harmonies as well. The business of the 20cents# standard is to do with the 'Canute syndrome'. In the 60's and 70's when I was making pipes as a beginner I was trying to establish concert F natural as the pitch of the pipes rather than F# which was the pitch that some of the older pipers were playing at. It seemed to be an easier pitch to aim for bearing in mind the reeds that were being made at the time and also bearing in mind that F natural would be easier for other musicians to play along with.HOWEVER I was up against David Burleigh who was turning out pipes at a rate I could not compete against and the pitch he chose was 20cents sharp on F natural. I could not fight against this and like Canute had to back off and go with the sharper pitch. It is possible nevertheless to reed my chanters or David's down to concert pitch F. Lamentable or not this is the reason. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: Francis Wood muse...@tiscali.co.uk To: rob@milecastle27.co.uk CC: n...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:16 Subject: [NSP] Re: Am I tone deaf? Thanks for pointing out this resource, Rob. Interesting, enjoyable and, I think, useful. This issue of pitch sensitivity prompts a couple of q uestions which always bother me. How often do you hear a group of NSP players establishing an achievable common pitch before starting to play? And what's with this lamentable F + 20 cents pitch 'standard' which has no relevance to anything else in the musical world? Francis On 2 Mar 2009, at 10:42, rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: .. Or rather How good is my differentiation of tones? A friend pointed this site out to me the other day: http://tonometric.com/adaptivepitch/ It measures how you differentiate between two tones and whether you can hear which is higher and lower. If you have ever described yourself as tone deaf, have a go .. then really concentrate and have another go .. The test is adaptive so the better you are the harder it gets. Once you're into the realm if 2 or 3 Hz, that means being able to tell the difference betweeen different tempered scales. There are a bunch of other related things on rhythm and musical memory but ths one struck me as being particularly relevent to piper's. If you lack confidence in tuning or don't know where to start, it's a very simple way of understanding (and improving) what you can hear. cheers Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http ://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: Reel of Tullochgorum
Hi Colin, Pete asked me to make left handed chanter for him and I have made one or two since I have been making pipes including tying the stocks in the other side of the bag. Colin R -Original Message- From: colin lt;cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.ukgt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:59 Subject: [NSP] Re: Reel of Tullochgorum Interesting.? I learned tin whistle by ear back in the 60's and play left handed - right hand nearest mouth purely because that seemed right for me (I am right handed).? When I got my first set of pipes (simple chanter), I played that left handed as well which caused some fun when I had my 7-key chanter made and couldn't figure out how to reach the keys.? There were few resources on playing the pipes back then (although Bill Hedworth loaned me a copy of a booklet which I forget the title of now - and which I had to copy longhand as it was out of print).? It took a while to reverse things (still play the whistle left handed though).? Am I right in thinking that my old friend (while he lived in Liverpool) the late Pete Rowley made his own left-handed set?? Colin Hill? - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar lt;phi...@gruar.clara.netgt;? To: lt;nsp@cs.dartmouth.edugt;? Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:21 AM? Subject: [NSP] Re: Reel of Tullochgorum? ? gt;? gt; Chris wrote:? gt;? gt;? gt;gt; More puzzling is the painting (Dutch 17th C) of a bellowspiper in gt;gt; Carbisdale Castle / Yoof Hostel, which is normal except that the piper gt;gt; has his right hand on the top end of the chanter and left on the bottom gt;gt; IIRR.? gt;gt; chirs? gt;? gt; Before standardised music lessons and printed tutors, wind instruments gt; were quite often played right hand at the top, even in the world of art gt; music. Where there is an off-set finger hole or a key for the bottom gt; little finger, as on the recorder, two holes were drilled so the player gt; could do it either way round and fill the redundant hole with wax, or the gt; key was made with a swallow-tail touch.? gt; More recently, it seems to have been quite a fashion for Irish flute gt; players to hold the flute the wrong way round too - shows they are gt; proper traditional musicians unaffected by classical training; of course gt; you can do that with a wooden open-holed flute but not with an gt; orchestral-style one.? gt;? gt;? gt;? gt; To get on or off this list see list information at? gt; http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html? gt;? gt; ? ? AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Jimmy Allan traditional (?)
I think this business of expressing rhythms in terms of word s or word groupings is fraught with difficulty as it depends on the emphasis with which you say the words. Any actor will tell you it is possible to say words or groups of words in many different ways and although it may be fun to use words to express rhythms especially with children you need to be there to hear the teacher making the point as when it is written down it can be misleading. The other point I want to make to non dancers is that the rant step can be appled in many situations in a basic 2/4 rhythm tune so that there is no defintive rant tune to search out. The recordings of the Cheviot Ranters and even the High Level Ranters contain a good number of tunes that can be ranted to so no need to look out the essential rant tune. If you want to look one out then start with Forster Charlton's, Harry's Rant or even Jimmy Allan. If you want to use that ugly term 'gobstopper' to a tune then I suppose Tullochgorum or New Highland Laddie aka Rachael Rae and Tail Toddle aka Little Wot ye Wha's Coming would come under that description. Left handed pipers have been around?from the very beginning with right hands being on top of the chanter whether left or right handed in relation to if the bag is under the left or right arm. Colin R -Original Message- From: john_da...@hmco.com To: Barry asic 2/4Say lt;barr...@nspipes.co.ukgt; CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:07 Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allan traditional (?) Barry Say wrote: Referring back to the earlier thread, I think Anthony Robb's point in the magazine was that it is possible to play some tunes as either a rant or a reel and he thought it important to choose the appropriate rhythm when playing in competition. If we have determined anything in this thread it's that there are varying opinions, even among judges, as to what is a rant and what is a reel, and that the title of a tune doesn't necessarily tell you what it is. There must be some tunes that can be played appropriately with the to-MAto soup rhythm (the light went on when it was pointed out where the down beat falls--thank you) or the GOB stopper rhythm. If someone could point out a definitive recording of a rant in the discography of NSP music, I would greatly appreciate it. As for Jamie Allen, it seems natural that the names of tunes and the way they are played would change over time, especially in ! a musical culture where ear-playing is common. Joe Hutton didn't play The Cameron Highlanders, which is also known as Henderson's March (I think), the way Highland pipers do, but it's the same tune and it's still a march. I once heard a busker near Seattle playing old time American music suddenly jump into Jimmy Allen. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to ask him where he learned it. Perhaps it appears on an old A.L. Lloyd or Ewen MacColl recording. Once again, Barry, thanks for a great edition of the NPS Magazine. I didn't have to play the usual drinking game to get through it, and the last few pages of email humor had me laughing out loud. all the best, John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Jimmy Allan traditional (?)
I have had it brought to my attention that it was the REEL of Tullochgorum?that was in question. The renaming of tunes of tunes due to ignorance or wilfulness has been something that has gone on for hundreds of years. Just look at our Peacock Follows the Hen, known as Mad Moll,etc, since Elizabethan times. I am sure that Matt could fill a book with examples he has found in his researches. To find the original composer of the tune that is known as Jimmy Allan would be of real interest which may come thru finding out who it was that re-named it. I admit to misunderstanding the point being raised but lets face it even the title REEL of Tullochgorum is misleading as a title as the tune is a RANT and not a reel so he mustn't have been a bright spark to have called it that, but there again a Scots hornpipe is not a hornpipe as we know it in Northumberland. Colin R -Original Message- From: Barry Say lt;barr...@nspipes.co.ukgt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:41 Subject: [NSP] Re: Jimmy Allan traditional (?) I quote from my original posting,--The Reel of Tullochgorum is almost certainly the same tune but is reckoned to be in D. It was published by Ian Powrie, apparently in the late 1950s and it seems that he claimed that it was a traditional tune which he had collected. Ian lived in Perthshire - so that is the first place we would suspect. --- The Reel of Tullochgorum is nothing like the tune Tulloch Goram which appears in the Peacock Collection, nor is it the reel of Tulloch. I never suggested it was. It seems probable that some Northumbrian musician heard it, stole it and renamed it to disguise its origins. These are techniques handed down to us by the Border Riever. Peter Kennedy collected tunes in the North East of England in the 1940s '50s and '60s and I would suggest that this was the route into the wider English Folk Culture. Since he did not include it in the first two volumes of! the Fiddler's Tune Book, I venture to suggest he was unaware of it when he compiled these.Barry On 12 Jan 2009 at 11:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote:gt; Er, excuse me but am I being a bit thick here or maybe intellectually gt; challenged in not finding any connection between the tune Jimmy Allan gt; and Tullochgorum. First of all they are a different rhythm and gt; secondly the chord structure is different and then basically they do gt; not even sound similar. I would have said that Winster Gallop is gt; nearer but is still different. Is it a case of the emperor's new gt; clothes where you have to agree with the hypothesis to be seen to be gt; with it in finding the similarity even though it is against common gt; sense? gt; gt; gt; I would agree that the origin of the tune is shrouded in mystery and gt; it does seem to be a 'modern' tune and not? contemporanious with the gt; subject. Now there is something that would be worth inv! estigating. gt; gt; gt; Colin R gt; gt; gt; ! gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; -Original Message- gt; gt; From: Barry Say lt;barr...@nspipes.co.ukgt; gt; gt; To: nsp lt;nsp@cs.dartmouth.edugt; gt; gt; Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:17 gt; gt; Subject: [NSP] Jimmy Allan traditional (?) gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; gt; Hi All,This is a follow-up to an earlier e-mail.As editor of gt; the NPS Magazine, I was well aware of the content of Chris Ormston's gt; article well before the NPS membership or the wider piping gt; community. I refrained from commenting on it or saying anything gt; related to it until the magazine was published. However, it set me gt; thinking. As an exercise, I tried to think of old tunes which would gt; serve as initial targets for beginner pipers.In the course of gt; this, Jimmy Allan sprang to mind, but I found that it did not appear gt; in the Peacock Collection, Bewick Book, or the Vickers collection gt; and! to my surprise, it did not appear in the first edition of the gt; Northumbrian Pipers' Tunebook (1936) nor in the Fiddler's gt; Tunebook(1951/54) edited by Peter Kennedy.Peter Kennedy was a gt; pivotal figure in the traditional music scene in the 1950s and 60s gt; and worked extensively in the North-East and is probably the person gt; most responsible for making the music of the ! gt;North-East of England available to the whole of England in thatgt;period. I do not intend this as either praise or criticism.I gt;had always assumed from its name that it was part of thegt;Northumbrian tradition, but I am beginning to suspect that we have gt; been deceived by our own willingness to believe that which seemsgt;convenient.The tune as we know it appears in the EFDSS gt;Community dance manual volume 6 on
[NSP] Re: re music for a funeral
Although Derwentwater's Farewell is an excellent to play as the mourners are coming in or going out at a funeral as well as playing for the committal, it is fraught with danger of squeaks when playing the lower notes on the chanter. Much safer to play The Rowan Tree which does not use the keys and is a good tune?for the occasion. Colin R -Original Message- From: P DUNN lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:51 Subject: [NSP] re music for a funeral re Colin's request, I have found that Derwentwater's Farewell works well. It is in Pauline Cato's Northumbrian Choice book, p. 21. However, it is always worthwhile talking to the persons concerned to get their feel for the occasion. Peter Dunn -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Correct grade of oi l?
It looks as though I have been missing a dot in trying to send messages to the List. Here goes again with dot. CR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:21 Subject: Fwd: Re: [NSP] Re: Correct grade of oi l? It looks as though this message was not sent earlier today so here is a copy of it. Apologies if you have received it already. I noticed that Barry has posted his opinion on oils which may well be right as far as he goes but my experience over forty years or so is otherwise. Let's see whose pipes are the first to disintegrate. Colin R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:13 Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Correct grade of oi l? The main constituent of Baby oil is liqud paraffin (?NOT paraffin oil )?and the Gel version does not evaporate away quite so quickly as the ordinary liquid paraffin ( mineral oil ). It does have a slight smell which can be associated with babies which us fellas may not have such fond memories of as the lady/girl/female pipers. Mike gave a good summary of the advantages of this oil which is used extensively in skin and beauty treatments. I now use the liquid paraffin with beeswax as my bag and bellows dressing as it does not cause tarnishing of the metalwork from evaporation when pipes are left enclosed in their cases for any length of time. I have no adverse comments on its use since I have been recommending it An additional benefit of using it is that my fingers have been in much better condition bearing n mind the contact they have with exotic wood dust and brass filings in my pipemaking work. Colin R -Original Message- From: colin lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: NSP Mailing List lt;nsp@cs.dartmouth.edugt; Sent: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:30 Subject: [NSP] Re: Correct grade of oi l? Having tried most of the oils recommended over the last 30-odd years (including almond, neatsfoot, lavender, etc) I took Colin Ross's advice after reading about all the trouble he had been through repairing sets when the oils had hardened (especially when not played on a regular basis) - including my own set.? I've used mineral oil (liquid paraffin - as sold by a chemist/pharmacy for use as a laxative) and I have found it excellent with no problems or ill-effects.? Due to health problems, my pipes often remain in their case for several months at a time but they haven't had any problems since I started using it (before this, the keys would be stiff, pads leaking etc and occasionally have to have lumps of hardened oil removed from various parts.? I'm a convert to it and also don't like the smell of baby oils!? Colin Hill? - Original Message - From: Mike Sharp lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;? To: NSP Mailing List lt;nsp@cs.dartmouth.edugt;? Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:16 AM? Subject: [NSP] Re: Correct grade of oi l?? ? gt;? gt; Graham Wright writes:? gt; ... I get a bit confused about the right type of oil for the pipes ? gt; Here we go again. :-)? gt; As I recall from the last time this came up:? gt; Neatsfoot oil works but will cause verdigris on the keywork if the? gt; pipes are allowed to sit unmaintained.? gt; Olive oil works but will build up a residue over time and it will get? gt; quite sticky if the pipes are allowed to sit unmaintained.? gt; Mineral oil (liquid paraffin) works well, leaves no residue, and? gt; doesn't effect the metal ferrules or keywork. There are no apparent? gt; side-effects if you have a serious lapse in the maintenance of your? gt; pipes. It was the recommended oil by the NPS technical director and is? gt; what I'm currently using. Various experimentation occurred with? gt; mixing this and Vaseline (a less-liquid paraffin) to yeild a thicker? gt; mixture. I'm not 100% certain but Johnson's Baby Oil Gel may be the? gt; current recommended product; its a slightly thicker version of liquid? gt; paraffin which doesn't dry out quite as quickly but it comes with a? gt; scent. Personally, I have enough things in my life that smell like? gt; babies, including a real baby. I don't feel the need to make my pipes? gt; smell like a baby too. :-)? gt; --Mike? gt;? gt; --? gt;? gt;? gt; To get on or off this list see list information at? gt; http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html? gt;? gt; ? ? AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited
[NSP] Re: Solo playing
Dear Margaret, I went along with Barry's idea on trying to encourage more playing by oneself only to get knocked down by him but it is something I will be trying out at our meetings in future if people want it and in an atmosphere of encouragement as you recalled at the earlier meetings. I hadn't seen your e-mail before last night otherwise I might have had a word with you about it?bit as it was I was rushed off my feet and didn't have a chance to speak to a lot of folk I wanted to. I am taking today nice and easily in an effort to recover from last night which was a monumental event the like of which we may not see again. Best wishes, Colin -Original Message- From: M Moyes lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:05 Subject: [NSP] Solo playing As I remember it, when we played solo at the Saturday meetings at the Sallyport in the 70's the atmosphere was one of encouragement rather than criticsm. The ordeal was the fact that you were playing in front of fellow pipers not that your performance would be judged. The many pipers who attended, me included, would not have continued to do so if they had felt in any way put down. The only time my playing was remarked upon was when I developed a leaky finger and consequent squeak. I had been tiling and grouting round the bath and there was some discussion as to whether this could have affected my fingertips! The help and encouragement given by Colin, Ida Davison and others more than made up for the trauma of playing. I also remember being inspired by the playing of Jim Hall, Anthony Robb and others so I agree we lose something if we restrict ourselves to group playing at meetings. Having read the comment from someone who! actually attended the Monday meeting recently, Colin's experiment seems to have been a success. I intend to encourage more solo playing at the Cleveland meetings so I'll have to b brave and lead by example! Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: solo vs. group playing
OK Barry, At our regular Monday meeting last night in Morpeth at our temporary venue in the Methodist Hall I thought I would try out the solo piping idea with every one present and of the nine who were there only a couple said they would rather not play solo. There was no crticism of their individual playing unless they asked for it and as MC I restricted my comments to remarking on the tone of the pipes and a little bit about posture and bellows technique. After doing their solo they chose a tune that we could all play together so they could relax. With a lot of chat we had a good ' celidh ' in the original meaning of the word that took us up to 10 o'clock when a few of us adjourned to the pub to finish off the night. The Monday meetings were started by myself when I was the original curator of the Bagpipe Museum when it was in Newcastle with a view to mixing social piping with advice and comments on playing from everyone present so it would be an instructional as well as sociable occasion. The mixing of the solo piping with group playing worked better that I thought it would so we will be doing it again. Thanks for the reminder. Colin R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:52 Subject: [NSP] solo vs. group playing In historic times (before 1990) I am told that there was a fair proportion of solo playing at NPS meetings, and presumably elsewhere. Some pipers found the prospect of playing on there own before their peers a daunting and nerve-wracking prospect. Since that time we have come to a point where large numbers of pipers can play relatively in tune with one another, and to a great extent solo playing has taken a back seat except for the top-class pipers and competitors.I will not condemn playarounds or sessions or performance groups. Playing pipes 'tout ensemble' can a very sociable activity and undoubtedly can give those with less experience an opportunity to stretch their playing without feeling unduly exposed. However, playing in a herd does not allow the piper to develop their own style, nor to hear the style and manner of playing of their peers. It also seems to generate a reluctance for pipers to play in front of their peers.I think that! we should reintroduce some solo piping performance into the life of the NSP community. We should encourage pipers of all abilities to demonstrate their capabilities at the level to which they have progressed. Those of us who have more experience should lead by example, praise should be given where it is due and criticism should be withheld (both at the time and in the pub afterwards). As well as developing the courage to perform we should have the patience to listen to others and support their endeavours.There is my pebble in the pond. Any ripples?Barry SayTo get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP]
HI Julia, This is the e-mail he sent me under his 'what me' address. I assume it was Adrian? Just read your long reply to the detached note debate with that quote from Clough which was right on. There is always something to be learnt from other folk in whatever field they are working which has been what I have been doing in reed and pipe making as well as playing. The bit about what folk were trying to do was exactly what drew me to Billy Pigg's playing despite all his 'mistakes'. My idea that that there should be an extended spot for players on courses who are booked as tutors is borne out by what has been said about Adrian and Pauline at Manchester whoe seem to have done their usual high performance double act there. Not all tutors can do this,e.g. myself, but for those who can there is probably more done to teach piping in those spots than in the tutorial room. This debate about detached notes is almost pointless as the nature of playing closed fingering produces that effect anyway and we all instinctively know that this is the essential feature of playing the small pipes. The debaite should be more about how we can vary it with associated gracings and vibrato to bring out the variation in interpretation that makes the music interesting to play and listen to. Colin R -Original Message- From: what.me lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 0:33 Subject: Re: [NSP] George Atkinson Mr Ross,? have you competed in any piping competitions? (I do not think so)? I have.? What are you trying to say?? I am playing, now, in a most 'proper' form and you are trying to change it.? The correct method is closed fingering; if you cannot do it, give up; or at least try.? Mr Schofield ? AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Choyting again (was [Etymology of the 'C' word - 2)
Dear Paul, I think you have made the right distinction between 'gracing' and 'cutting' but it is the cuttings which are not neccessary on the small pipe which are the 'choytes'. The gracings, if done neatlyand discretely, are a part of playing any instrument which includes the NSP. Colin R ? -Original Message- From: Paul Gretton lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:41 Subject: [NSP] Choyting again (was [Etymology of the 'C' word - 2) I would like to suggest that if we are going to discuss choyting again and want to refer to bagpipes with an open-ended chanter, we distinguish between - cuttings, i.e. the obligatory super-short notes that are necessary on an open-ended chanter in order to articulate at all; - grace notes (or gracings), i.e. twiddly bits that are not necessary for articulation but are put in because the composer or player thinks they sound good. Choyting on the NSP would fall into the latter category. Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] George Atkinson
George Atkinson used to attend the NPS meetings when I was there in the early days and he used to be the only fluent piper that came to our meetings. I remember him playing Athole Highlanders and the Remember Me hornpipe in a very clear and articulated style that we knew was what we had to aim for in our playing no matter how long it took us. Nothing was said about how he did it we just had to listen and copy his style. This is a far cry from the present day obsession for teaching the pipes and getting your milliseconds of separation between your notes as though that was the only criterion to be aimed for. Yes, let's get separation between notes but be prepared to slide one note into the other to get the musical shaping plus the discrete grace note to make up for the lack of dynamic in the instrument when interpreting tunes and not just playing a succesion of detached notes. Colin R AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nps saturday meeting
For those of us who live locally and were thinking of coming to the Chantry?this Saturday,?Maureen Davison has offered to host us for this meeting at least. Her address is in the Handbook. Colin R AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away
Dear Matt, I agree with you about the 'slipshod editing' except I would say it was ignorance of the pipes and how to write out the music that came into it as well. Examples being one of the tunes being printed upside down and The Hen's March being printed in the wrong key and of course the first bar of Keelman Ower the Land having that triplet in it that caused a lot of difficulty in execution if it was really meant to be there. I confess here that Barry and I in 1998 were a little too deferential towards the music and did not edit as thoroughly as we should have done leaving in a good number of mistakes that we have since corrected. My copy of the NPS reprint is heavily annotated as a result. Even with all these corrections I still think the Minstrelsy pipe tunes did a service to piping in bringing these tunes which were hidden away in MSS to the attention of pipers and have enabled us to seek out the originals to see the fuller versions of the tunes possibly more accurately rendered as in your work on the Vicker's tunes. I think that this means that musical commonsense has to be applied to reading from music to make the tune make sense to you as a player in regard to timing,keys and alternative notes other than those written down. The writing down of 'folk' music has been an inexact art as Julia Say and I have found out in editing the NPS publications where we have been learning over the years to get to a definitive version of tunes as far as that is possible. Trained classical musicians using tools like Sibelius no doubt make a much better fist of it but in the meantime we amateurs are getting there if we use our musical intelligence to seek out what is there in the dots and don't defer too much to what may have been written down by previous players with less ability than ourselves. There are no semantics in music other than what sounds right when played. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: Matt Seattle lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:59 Subject: [NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away I agree with you on that, John, likelier, more characteristic of the idiom, and more musical. The error is typical (I've probably exceeded my quota of complaints about NM - I feel its slipshod editing did a lot of damage - so, enough).On 9/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote: gt;There is something similar in the 1st half bar of Keelman Ower Land. gt; gt;There it is dc/B/A/G, with the NM version putting a triplet on the gt;c/B/A/, to get the time right, but making it harder to play. I feel gt;dc/B/A/G/ is likelier. gt; gt;It would be easy in a MS to not quite take the second beam on the gt;semiquavers far enough. So such typos are common.To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away
Dear Richard, The Peacock Collection was printed in facsimile 'warts and all' so there were some of the original mistakes on the page.That was in 1980, but in the reprint (1999)?the music was reset and corrections were made so that particular bar in Wylam Away was altered to scan properly. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: Richard York lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: NSP group lt;nsp@cs.dartmouth.edugt; Sent: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 9:46 Subject: [NSP] Re: Peacock's Wylam Away Thanks, both John Barry, for confirming what seemed logically right! I didn't have the FARNE link, so that's a bonus. Best wishes, Richard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those without the facsimile handy, the relevant page in FARNE is [2]http://www.asaplive.com/archive/detail.asp?id=K0101303 My reading of the suspect half bar is also dB/c/d/B/ analogously to 2 bars before. It looks like a mistake by the engraver to me. I'd like to add my thanks to the Chantry rescuers as well - a heroic job! John -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.asaplive.com/archive/detail.asp?id=K0101303 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: tchuning
Dear Chris, The tuning of the low E I find is most effectively tuned also against the A drone as a fifth or its inversion. This is also an octave to the top E so it can be checked both ways. The 'third' way is to use the tuning meter which I find to be the quickest way to tune most of the notes before putting them to the test against the appropriate ?drone. Colin R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 8:49 Subject: RE: [NSP] tchuning Ah, sorry, I had misread you to mean if you try to use the B you've already got (from tuning for G major) against a drone in tune with the E you've already got (from the A) it won't work. Because, as you explain, the B would need to be sharper.?It is strange, I find, that Mike Nelson explains?his lower tuning for the bottom E as being for the sake of G major rather than for permitting E minor. I have my low E?a bit flat relative to the top E and this permits me to play in E minor quite successfully (it was tuned this way by the maker). The middle E even tho it is tuned as a perfect fifth against the A drone does not sound too sharp against the G and D drones strangely enough.? ? The interval C-E?can sound a bit odd tho, at least to my lugs. chirs? AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
Dear Sam, The 'lugs' are a pair of devices situated on either side of the head as in ' If yi divent shurrup aal giv yi a belt across the lugs.'?You may need to look it up in a Geordie Dictionary. I am afraid that NSP's come with a bit of local jargon known as 'Geordie' since they were developed in Northumberland and Durham. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:05 Subject: Re: [NSP] tchuning Hi Colin,What is the 'lug'?Samgt; If you can be bothered to read this after all that has been going on it gt; concerns the use of the 'lug' to tune the chanter and little theory. gt; gt; gt; The notes to be tuned are the three that make up the Major Triad or gt; Doh,MeSo,or Tonic,major Third and Fifth intervals. gt; gt; gt; Start with the G drone on and do the G,B and D notes. gt; gt; gt; With the D drone on and the G switched off, tune in D, F# and A. gt; gt; gt; With the A drone switched on ( tuning bead on G drone) and the rest off, gt; tune in A,C# and E. gt; gt; gt; This leaves you with the middle C which is tuned as? fourth interval gt; against the original G drone. gt; gt; gt; That is the limit to which you can tune the chanter as if you try to tune gt; against E for those E minor tunes you will find the middle B too sharp for gt; the rest. Strangely enough the E note does not seem to be too sharp for gt; ! the D an A drones to play against. This is called Mean tuning and any gt; tuning issues can be corrected by means of bag pressure. Jack Armstrong gt; was adept at this as I found out when I was asked to service his pipes gt; where the chanter needed coaxing to play in tune. gt; gt; gt; If you want a tune to test your chanter try Carnaval of Venice which gt; covers all those middle notes. gt; gt; gt; Cheers, gt; gt; gt; Colin gt; gt; gt; ? gt; gt; gt; gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the gt; move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. gt; gt; -- gt; gt; To get on or off this list see list information at gt; http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html gt; AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Drones and tuning
Dear Ross, I have just had a set of drone reeds I tongued with plastic returned to me for re-tongueing with cane. The player had compared the tone against a cane tongued set and did not like the tone. There are a good number of folk out there with educated ears (lugs) that can hear the difference so I do not think there will be a major shift to plastic tongues for small pipes. Maybe for the Highland pipes for practical pitch stability reasons in the band scene but I think the solo pipers will put up with a faily long tuning in period for the sake of the better tone in their opinion. Cheers, Colin -Original Message- From: Ross Anderson lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:45 Subject: [NSP] Re: Drones and tuning Barrygt; I would like to be able to make drone reeds which give a constant gt; pitch from 12 to 20 of water gauge.The masters at this are the people who make union pipes. Robert Reid, of course, make both union pipes and Northumbrian pipes.gt; With such reeds, the problems beginners have in getting steady gt; drones would be much reduced.The rest of the world's come to the conclusion that beginners, at least, should use plastic drone reeds. Most Highland pipers (other than the top soloists) now use Ezeedrones: rather than tuning for 20 minutes you just get the pipes out of the box, stick them on your shoulder and play them. It's a no-brainer unless you're a purist. In the border piping world, Nigel Richards and Jon Swayne pipes use plastic reeds. So do Julian Goodacre's. In the uilleann world, plastic is gaining ground - it's just the longevity of the existing reeds that keeps most people playing cane. And now that some Northumbrian pipema! kers offer a brass-with-plastic option we may see the same gradual changeover here too.OK, so I spoke heresy. Flame away!RossTo get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: Choyting - possible source of word and Plaid
As one who is married to a Scot and being half Scotch myself I am familiar with the 'choocter' (teuchter) word which I was told referred to sound of the Gaelic language spoken in Glasgow by all the Highlanders and Islanders who came looking for work. It was thought to sound like chooky birds (hens) making a noise. I liked the idea that some one had that Clough thought that some players of the small pipes sounded like pit canaries used to test for firedamp. The sound is more like 'oi' than 'oo' hence 'choyte' rather than 'chook' comparing canaries with chickens. The Ovingham pipers in blue and white could be adapted to the blue suit with white silk scarf as a modern take on the costume. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:32 Subject: [NSP] Choyting - possible source of word and Plaid Hi all, For several years my father was at sea with a mixed crew of Hebridean Islanders and other Scots. Apparently the scots refered to the Islander as 'choochters' (chew- k-ters) not sure of spelling; this is an aural history. The name described the babbling nature of the island Gaelic speech. It seems likely therefore that either lowland scots dialect or urban scots slang would be a likely source of the word.I do not believe that it was a term of endearment!Perhaps some one married to a Scot could seek enlightenment. In a book referring to the Ovingham goose fair (early 19th century) reference is made to the Duke's pipers playing in blue with a white sash. Perhaps we can adopt the Carlisle strip as traditional garb?Malcolm AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.--! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Plaid, by gad, sad or bad?
I was reprimanded quite rightly by Matt for saying that Linlithgow was in the Borders in a recent e-mail when I meant Innerleithen which is on the Tweed in between Galashiels and Peebles. This was where I bought a length of black and white plaid at the mill which had been specially woven to commemorate Sir Walter Scott's birthday I think. It has been used to make waistcoats for pipers,Ranters and pipebag covers to identify with Northumberland and seemed a better alternative to using red and yellow striped material as in the Northumberland flag. Of course if you want a uniform what better than the navy blue suit with white silk scarf that was?worn in my famliy by my grand father who was a miner like the Cloughs. Colin AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Rusty Gulley
For all of you who read Anthony's letter in the NPS Newsletter can I correct what he said about the title Rusty Gulley where he said it should read Busty Gulley because of confusion over the lower loop on the letter R as it occurs in the original MS of the Vickers Tune Book. It is not the clearest MS to read and it seemed a reasonable assumption to make that the R should be read as a B. However in the photocopy I have have of the original MS that Jim Hall and I made in 1977 it definitely reads as Rusty Gulley as can be seen in the original index to the collection where the tune title appears between Room for Beauty and Roger a Coverdille under the general heading of R. The distinction between the B and the R that Vickers makes is that the lower curve of the letter makes a distinct curve upwards outwards in the R compared to the B where it tails off downwards or comes upwards internally. Admittedly the tune title where it occurs in the book has the first letter looking like a B, but this is associated with a mark that may be a slip of the quill. The tune above it called Risty Gulley has the R clearly marked and elsewhere?in the collection the R's are not to be confused with the B's. If we are to look for tunes to be discovered with the alternating 3/4 and 6/8 rhythms then we need go no further than the next tune along from Rusty Gulley called The Dusty Miller where Matt has it in 3/4 compared to Vicker's 6/8 and can be easily be played in alternating bars of 3/4 to begin with and then 6/8. An example of where Matt has exceeded his task of editorship in going totally against Vickers original time signature. I hope that Matt and and Anthony will not take this as an attack on all the work they have done and still are doing in the cause of Northern music making on the pipes and fiddle. Just trying to balance opinion where Mr. Vickers cannot speak up for himself. Colin Ross Chairman NPS AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: reeds
Dear David, It is not that I am too busy to make reeds fro you it is just that I do not make reeds for other makers sets especially if they are still alive. I had to call a moritorium on reeding Burleigh pipes some years ago now because of the demand on my own reedmaking and pipemaking activities. Each pipemaker should have the responsibilty to supply reeds to their own make sets as I do for my own whether they were bought directly from me or not. My own reedmaking booklet was an attempt to help the reed situation to encourage folk to attempt to make their own reeds and I think that pipers need to at least try to make their own reeds as the situation is not getting any better as we all get older. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: DAVID KORALYNN BOISVERT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:17 Subject: [NSP] reeds Greetings, For some odd reason I've had the most difficult time getting ahold of reeds for my NSP's. Mr. Burleigh, Mr. Ross, the Evans family have all informed me they are far too busy to make reeds right now. I tried emailing Ms. Say a few times but there has been no reply. Is there anyone else capable of and/or willing to make some reeds for my 2 sets? I have 2 Burleigh 14 key sets that are in bad need of chanter and drone reeds. I've been suffering from traumatic hand injuries this last year and a half and cannot strain my hands making them myself. Any help that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated! All the best, David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. --
[NSP] Re: Finger spacing
Dear Richard, Sound reasoning re the bores but at 4mm bore (5/32) it could be a little quiet altho I have found it sound the same tone and volume as the regular 4.4mm (11/64). The sharpening effect does work at 3,8mm (3/16) but can sound a little too loud altho once again I have found it OK as my first chanter that I got from Forster Charlton was that bore and it never bothered me. I did try to widen the hole spacing for the G chanter some years ago now by boring out the bore to 3/16 and drilling to F# spacings which was in-between the F and G spacings. I drilled two chanters and found that one was perfect in playing in G but the other would not move a fraction above the F#. I think that John Liiestman had the same problem.?I did not pursue that any further as I could not afford to make chanters that would not reliably play in the key I wanted and therefore waste my time. Despite what I said last time about drilling the finger holes at an angle to widen the spacing I have not consistently tried it although I know it works. Colin -Original Message- From: Richard Shuttleworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 22:09 Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Finger spacing Dear Colin and everyone,? ? This is a quest for knowledge and not a suggestion, but would it be possible to lower the pitch of a chanter by narrowing the bore and, conversly, raise the pitch by widening the bore? If so, would it be possible to make a longer F chanter (with correspondingly wider finger positions) by widening the bore (but countering this by lengthening the chanter to maintain the pitch?? ? I may have got the whole thing backwards but Helen's question has set me thinking along these lines.? ? Cheers,? ? Richard? ? Dear Helen,? I actually made a D set for someone with larger fingers which was comfortable for him and didn't worry him as he was not intending to play with other F pipers and to be realistic might be the only way to fix him up with a playing set he can manage.? However if the finger holes are drilled at 45 degrees downward from the top and upward from the bottom of the chanter he may be able to spread the holes to make it possible for him to play in F.? The holes on a bassoon are drilled this way to make it possible to cover the holes but in the other way,i.e. upwards for the top holes and downwards for the bottom holes.? Cheers,? Colin? ? ? ? -Original Message-? From: Helen Capes [EMAIL PROTECTED]? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 8:29? Subject: [NSP] Finger spacing? ? ? Ok this is a bit technical, for those who understand the link between bore width and finger spacing.?? I have been approached by a man who would like to learn to play the NSP but he really cannot squash his fingers onto an F chanter.?? One solution would be a D chanter, but that doesn't give him the future of social playing with other pipers that he was looking for.?? He has made some very nice practice chanters for the GHP and wondered if anyone could supply some ideas on how to make a keyless F chanter for the NSP with wider fingers spacing.?? Helen ?? ?? To get on or off this list see list information at?? http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html?? ? ? ? AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now.? ? -- ? AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. --
[NSP] Re: Cotton and the end plug
The original remedy to correct tuning and excessive vibrato on the top notes was to insert a small cane G reed into the end of the chanter and move it in and out until an optimum position was found. It was then cut off at that point and the end piece replaced. This would satisfy Chris's complaint of the deadening of the tone effect of the cotton wool. The cotton wool plug was someting I got from Colin Caisley who may have got it from Tom Clough as a cure all remedy providing it was a teased out piece of cottong wool and not just a cotton bud pushed in at any old length. The end of an un-reconstructed cotton bud is in effect a reflecting surface and would have to be as carefully placed as the cane. The oily cotton wool would have the same effect and would need careful placing or better still replacing with a soft piece to stop the interfering standing waves being set up in the lower end of the chanter. Colin Ross Tech adviser NPS -Original Message- From: Jack Rawlins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dartmouth N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:25 Subject: [NSP] Cotton and the end plug I am new to northumbrian small pipes and am self taught.? ? My question is about the end plug. Is this to be adjusted in some manner to affect tuning and tone quality? Mine has no cotton in the bottom. I realize this could be a long response, but any help would be appreciated.? ? Also, there are no teachers around this neck of the woods - anyone give lessons over the internet? I do have a very strong musical background so the basics of reading music, fingerings etc are not an issue. I am looking for some help with basic setup on the maintenance side and tune expression.? ? Thanks? Jack Rawlins? Ponca City, Ok USA? ? ? To get on or off this list see list information at? http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html? AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. --
[NSP] Re: Finger spacing
Dear Helen, I actually made a D set for someone with larger fingers which was comfortable for him and didn't worry him as he was not intending to play with other F pipers and to be realistic might be the only way to fix him up with a playing set he can manage. However if the finger holes are drilled at 45 degrees downward from the top and upward from the bottom of the chanter he may be able to spread the holes to make it possible for him to play in F. The holes on a bassoon are drilled this way to make it possible to cover the holes but in the other way,i.e. upwards for the top holes and downwards for the bottom holes. Cheers, Colin -Original Message- From: Helen Capes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 8:29 Subject: [NSP] Finger spacing Ok this is a bit technical, for those who understand the link between bore width and finger spacing.? I have been approached by a man who would like to learn to play the NSP but he really cannot squash his fingers onto an F chanter.? One solution would be a D chanter, but that doesn't give him the future of social playing with other pipers that he was looking for.? He has made some very nice practice chanters for the GHP and wondered if anyone could supply some ideas on how to make a keyless F chanter for the NSP with wider fingers spacing.? Helen ? ? To get on or off this list see list information at? http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html? AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now. --
[NSP] Re: c# crow
The way I approached developing the G and D chanters was as you say to scale the chanters in proportion and then try them out and adjust the hole positions to get the chanters in tune. I also made the decision to use the same reed for the chanters for simplicity in providing reeds to cover the various pitches which worked well enough for the D chanter and subsequent C and other chanters that I was experimenting with without any detioration of tone and volume. However this did not work with the G chanter as the position of the top B hole meant I had to shorten the reed more than a proportional shortening. This has lead to the ongoing problems of making a nice sounding reed playing at the 'normal' pressure which is 15 water guage. However I have found that a well made reed made from the best cane plays very sweetly and at normal pressure as I heard just this week at one of our sessions when Maureen Davidson played a solo on her G pipes. The secret of the pressure and the tone depends on the 'crow' or seagull break in sound that is acheived by careful scraping of the sides of the reed as described in my Reedmaking booklet or on Utube that was posted by Steve Douglass. Colin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 1.07PM Subject: [NSP] Re: c# crow As an ex-physicist, my starting point for designing a G chanter would be to reduce every linear dimension (bore, hole spacing, reed length, reed thickness) of an F chanter by 10%, or for a D chanter, to increase by 20%. I would aim to raise the crow pitch by just under a tone or just over a minor third. Other solutions would be possible, but they would sound different. My G chanter works fine, but it has a very different tone from the F chanter, as do most G chanters I have heard. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] suppliers
I had a call from Mr Scott of Scotts Leathers this morning to let me know they were still in the business of supplying leather for bags and bellows. This was in response to a call I made to the firm last week wondering if they were still operating. He said they had rented out the majority of their factory space as rented lots for storing furniture,etc. but still had a part that they used to keep a stock of leather. The main point of this posting is to say to those of us who make pipes that we need to keep firms like Scoots going by buying the good quality leather they supply or they may eventually go out of business. I did make the point with him that we are never going to buy in the quantity that say Highland pipemakers buy in setting up pipebands as we are dealing with single pipers most of the time. If we buy a skin for pipebags we may get half a dozen bags out of it which may represent more than a years work which is fine for us but he as the supplier is not going to make a living from selling it to us. I am not advertising for Scotts but I can say that the Stormforce leather they sell is absolutely airtight and soft enough to make the ideal small pipe bag, and the Scawfell leather is also airtight and the right thickness for bellows leather. The survival of pipemaking is in the hands not only of us makers but also in the hands of the suppliers of the materials we need. If any one wants any details of how to contact Scotts let me know and I will give you his address. Colin Ross Technical adviser NPS -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] peacock pipes
The three drone, plain chanter set was one of the first sets I made and I enjoyed playing it for the same reasons as Paul. It was so light and easy to play and of course ideally suited to playing most of the tunes in the Peacock Collection which is why I called them the Peacock Pipes and even had an idea of forming a Peacock piper's group although that never materialised. Maybe now is the time to do something about it? Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Which way should drone reed tongues face?
Face the reeds with the tongues towards the centre of the stock to avoid the tongues beating against the inner wall of the stock:there is a fair degree of movement on the large drone tongue for example. If the stock just has holes drilled thru a solid piece of wood then it is still advisable to face the tongues toward the centre as regular practice so you can withdraw the reeds safely without messing up the tongues by sliding them out on the backside of the reed. Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag holes
Try putting a spot of super glue into the hole as this will set in the presence of oil. I have found it works very well. Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: boring discovery
If you wish to extend the bore depth of the cotton bud you could glue it on to a thin knitting needle or a length of 1/16 welding rod. I wrap the end of a 1/8 welding rod with cotton that I seal with shellac varnish to stop it from un-wrapping and use this for oiling and also french polishing the bore to get a really good smooth shiny bore that improves the tone enormously. Colin R. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] to choyte or not to choyte
My interpretation of the word 'choyte' is that it refers to gratuitous gracings applied on the small pipe chanter in the manner of the highland pipes. It is interesting that the word 'teuchter' (pronounced chookter), that is applied to Highlanders speaking in the Gaelic in Glasgow, referred to their speech sounding like chickens clucking. Is it possible that Clough had this in mind that when he used the term to choyte he was thinking of the Glasgow derisory term in speaking of pipers playing in that same clucking manner? I think that Chris is dead right in saying that the main theme of New Highland Laddie should be played like slow march and not like the reel Rachel Rae that it is the same as. Colin Ross -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Query from Gerrit re List
Dear Gerrit, I have no idea why you are not on the List or rather not getting information from it. I have copied this to the Pipers List to see if anyone has any ideas. Colin -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
