[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi, the idea of the keywords is very nice... in http://wiki.tcl.tk you can search for a specific page using the url http://wiki.tcl.tk/file even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in: http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu* But this is not a pure keyword serach. This is just a fulltext search. perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki... No, different software. But this is not the point, since you can search though all pages with the instiki software that I use. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi, Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!) Go ahead and put it in the wiki! Its up to us all to put content in there. - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?) It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License (GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.) Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Le 23 juin 04, à 16:54, Patrick Gundlach a écrit : Hi Maurice, texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 Not accessible! Perhaps because I'm behind a firewall? I should try at home. I just double checked that the services both run ok. If there is any problem that could be on my side, please tell me. It does work from home, So I cried to our system administaters, and now it does work at work too :-) Thank you very much. OK, It is open source But about the documentation. The easiest way to finf this file is by looking for mreadme.pdf pragma in google! I did 'locate mreadme'. Yes, but I think the top 10 documents should directly be accessible from the reference url. and mreadme.pdf is one of these files *before* installing context ! ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Le 22 juin 04, à 19:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : the idea of the keywords is very nice... in http://wiki.tcl.tk you can search for a specific page using the url yes! it's the best exemple I know about! No need to define a strict hierchical structure. Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!) - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?) - which/where is the reference documentation (don't reply with some recursive answer!) - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference ConTeXt book? I know these questions has been answered somewhere, and some days ago, But I know that because I have followed this mailing list for months. But I'm not sure I'm able to find these without asking to this list! like in http://wiki.tcl.tk/file even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in: http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu* perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some advice. Just some thoughts. Cheers, Jose Ignacio -- Maurice Diamantini http://www.ensta.fr/~diam ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hello, Maurice Diamantin wrote: - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?) Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource. The last time I read the licence it looked pretty free. In how far do you think should ConTeXt become more open source? BSD licence without advertising clause? LGPL? Note that teTeX comes with this licence statement by Thomas Esser (doc/context/base/LICENSE.teTeX): I have taken great care to ensure that teTeX is free software. When speaking about free software, I always refer to the definition of the Free Software Foundation, given as http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html. To my understanding, ConTeXt with the mreadme.pdf-license already classifies as free software (as defined by the FSF). To be 100% sure of this fact, I hereby make ConTeXt free software by definition by adding the following clause to ConTeXt's license: If ConTeXt is not free software by the license in mreadme.pdf, the following terms replace the licence for ConTeXt given in mreadme.pdf: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.[...] - which/where is the reference documentation (don't reply with some recursive answer!) Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated and incomplete. But I think the ConTeXt - the manual is rather good though incomplete. * - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference ConTeXt book? You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced ConTeXt - a manual? Regards, Tobias ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi, the idea of the keywords is very nice... in http://wiki.tcl.tk you can search for a specific page using the url http://wiki.tcl.tk/file even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in: http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu* But this is not a pure keyword serach. This is just a fulltext search. perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki... No, different software. But this is not the point, since you can search though all pages with the instiki software that I use. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi, Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!) Go ahead and put it in the wiki! Its up to us all to put content in there. - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?) It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License (GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.) Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Le 23 juin 04, à 10:51, Tobias Burnus a écrit : Maurice Diamantin wrote: - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?) Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource. OK, probably I looked at this file too long ago. I agree ConTeXt is now Open source. But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet from which: - an **unique** starting URL. - dated version would be available, - current official documentation (I didn't mean documentationsss) - access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...) - which/where is the reference documentation (don't reply with some recursive answer!) Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated and incomplete. But I think the ConTeXt - the manual is rather good though incomplete. * Yes I agree that ConTeXt - the manual is **the** currently reference manual. As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate (but not as other said uptodate context documents :-) version. - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference ConTeXt book? You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced ConTeXt - a manual? Yes! I know that it's a big work to maintain such a documentation, and probably (?), even Hans should eat some food (and sleep) from time to time! So if this work could be sell as a ConTeXt book. I think it could make a great difference for peoples who hesitate to switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt : no book available for now! This book could be reedited perhaps every 2 years, and updates (and perhaps the book itself ?) could be made available on the web. I agree there is much less ConText user than LaTeX user, but: - this book whould be the only ConTeXt book available, so it should be easy to sell, - the fact that there is a ConTeXt book should make ConTeXt more attractive (as for a SourceForge projet) -- Maurice ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi Maurice, texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 Not accessible! Perhaps because I'm behind a firewall? I should try at home. I just double checked that the services both run ok. If there is any problem that could be on my side, please tell me. OK, It is open source But about the documentation. The easiest way to finf this file is by looking for mreadme.pdf pragma in google! I did 'locate mreadme'. That was quick I didn't even have to download the file, it is shipped with ConTeXt... :-) And for the rest of the documentation, goto http://www.pragma-ade.com/overview.htm and you will find almost all available documentation that is available in pdf. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi, But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet from which: - an **unique** starting URL. www.pragma-ade.com - dated version would be available, http://www.pragma-ade.com/download.htm - current official documentation (I didn't mean documentationsss) Well, ConTeXt is too complicated to have all aspects in one book. - access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...) http://www.pragma-ade.com/links.htm - which/where is the reference documentation (don't reply with some recursive answer!) Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated and incomplete. But I think the ConTeXt - the manual is rather good though incomplete. Yes I agree that ConTeXt - the manual is **the** currently reference manual. As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate (but not as other said uptodate context documents :-) version. I agree with you there. The documentation should be updated a bit and put togehter. The uptodate manuals should go into different manuals and vanish, since they are not uptodate anymore (perhaps they are uptodate, but the date is behind). [...] Talking about a sourceforge project. I guess that Hans would still keep his ConTeXt distribution private (at PRAGMA ADE [btw. what is the correct way to write your company's name?]) and not care very much about any other SF project (as long as it does not get into his way), but would be very reluctant giving support for the different project. Once an tool is necessary for your everyday work, it is a bad thing to give it out of your control. If you need a SF project, make one (actually, there is one as I have been told). But keep in mind that you should follow the license restrictions in mreadme.pdf *and* you have to do all by yourself, since most people here (I guess) are happy the way it is now. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hello, On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote: [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/ What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code included? I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. What were the difficulties you ran into? One problem was on how to create a header with a different height for just one page for a letter template ... I needed some trickery (I don't recall it exactly, now) to make it work, and tried many things on the way. Another was the anchoring of layers, although for that I found some very helpful documentation (thanks, Hans, for the Details). And, as I'm no wizard in TeX, I had some problems with redefining in macros; I still do not know, whether these work for all cases now. Arguments for a collection could be: 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents could spare others such time consuming trials. a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents. There are too many faces ConTeXt has. Okay, but it would be nice to have a starting point, instead of starting all projects from scratch. Didn't anybody write a letter for window-envelopes yet? b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities: 1) layout trickery macro hacking itemize weirdness crazy table fun or 2) letters articles poems magazines/newspaper Any other? Which one makes sense? You are right. But from my perspective, the latter would make more sense. At least, I thought about such a collection being useful when I start a new project (e.g. a letter ...). Then I could look up, whether there is anything I can build on. For the trickery and stuff, there is the documentation (okay, these are not editable by everyone), and one could build a second hierarchy in the Wiki which contains simply links to helpful trickery in the other parts ... -- Holger F. Schoener TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/ Rooms FR2525Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121 Office FR 2-1 Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hello Holger, [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/ What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code included? I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. What were the difficulties you ran into? Arguments for a collection could be: 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents could spare others such time consuming trials. a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents. There are too many faces ConTeXt has. b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities: 1) layout trickery macro hacking itemize weirdness crazy table fun or 2) letters articles poems magazines/newspaper Any other? Which one makes sense? 2) On the other hand, my template could for sure be further improved (beyond the level, I am capable of), so by putting it on a WIKI, I may get hints and feedback by others. Yes, that would be a great thing. This is actually the reason why I started this wiki (and texshow-web). What was your motivation for mentioning such a collection on the WIKI? Every 4 months this question arises on this mailinglist. (Not really true). Another advantage of the WIKI would be the following: I am often lost, when I try to remember, where I found a certain hint/trick/technique I am remembering. If there is a place where everyone can edit pages and include hints or links to information, then there would be no need to create more and more separate web sites about ConTeXt, because the content could be placed in the WIKI, or it could at least be linked from there. And (the best part!) there is a search field in the wiki. So if you have important information there, get it in a few seconds. But it is up to every user to add things to the wiki. Patrick ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 05:55:24PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote: Arguments for a collection could be: 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents could spare others such time consuming trials. a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents. There are too many faces ConTeXt has. b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities: Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those phrases or browse a keyword index. Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing metadata. And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect collection would be more helpful than none. And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their own. Isn't that what the Web is all about? -- Matt Gushee When a nation follows the Way, Englewood, Colorado, USAHorses bear manure through [EMAIL PROTECTED] its fields; http://www.havenrock.com/ When a nation ignores the Way, Horses bear soldiers through its streets. --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.) ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi Matt, b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities: Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start... But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those phrases or browse a keyword index. Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing metadata. As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages could help. And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect collection would be more helpful than none. Probably true. And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their own. Isn't that what the Web is all about? Right. Easy to change everything. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hi all, the idea of the keywords is very nice... in http://wiki.tcl.tk you can search for a specific page using the url like in http://wiki.tcl.tk/file even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in: http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu* perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some advice. Just some thoughts. Cheers, Jose Ignacio Hi Matt, b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities: Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start... But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those phrases or browse a keyword index. Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing metadata. As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages could help. And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect collection would be more helpful than none. Probably true. And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their own. Isn't that what the Web is all about? Right. Easy to change everything. Patrick -- texshow-web: http://members.ping.de:8061 ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062 ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
[NTG-context] Re: ConTeXt-Wiki
Hello Holger and everybody, [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/ Finde ich eine gute Idee! Was mir (neben der Hilfe auf auf der Liste für neue Probleme) am meisten bringt, und ich bisher etwas vermisse, sind Beispiel-Dokumente (genauer: deren Quellcode). [missing example documents and sources] What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code included? Patrick ___ ntg-context mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
