Re: What to look for in STATSPACK report
Hi Tim, Are you sure it's still owned by Veritas? Doesn't look that way when I checked it just now. Mogens Tim Gorman wrote: Helmut, Register with http://www.oraperf.com; and run those STATSPACK reports through the YAPP analyzer, which will reformat them in such a way that they make sense. All of the ratio stuff on the STATSPACK report is ignored by the YAPP analyzer, and instead the reformatting looks at things from the standpoint of response-time analysis, as described in the white papers at http://www.oraperf.com/whitepapers.html;. Yes, I know OraPerf is now owned by Veritas and the real URLs are different, but it'll always be just good old oraperf.com hopefully, no matter who Anjo works for... :-) Hope this helps... -Tim on 1/18/04 11:24 PM, Daiminger, Helmut at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! We want to introduce a performance monitoring policy here. We are using the STATSPACK utility. What are sections in statspack reports to look for? What are threshold numbers for these values? Does anybody have any power points or papers about it? This is 9.2 on HP-UX. Thanks, Helmut -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: What to look for in STATSPACK report
Hi Helmut, There are so many opinions about this that it's hard to point at one specific document or recommendation. If anything, start with stuff written by Graham Wood (who has done a good deal of the work on it), Bjorn Engsig (ditto), or such guys. Also, Tom Kyte has something about it in his new book, so go look on asktom.oracle.com for his opinions about it. If you hope to find threshold numbers for certain values, etc then someone would have automated it a lng time ago. There can be two reasons for this not having happened: It depends on the installation, situation, etc. - or a lot of system-level measurements are in reality useless. That's pretty much my opinion, but thankfully a lot of much smarter people disagree with me. Best regards, Mogens Daiminger, Helmut wrote: Hi! We want to introduce a performance monitoring policy here. We are using the STATSPACK utility. What are sections in statspack reports to look for? What are threshold numbers for these values? Does anybody have any power points or papers about it? This is 9.2 on HP-UX. Thanks, Helmut -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Who is Melanie Craft?
Yeah, you might not be able to open it, but you can nearly always mount it. Rachel Carmichael wrote: as opposed to the ever-present Oracle kernel which is arbitrary, gobbles up all resources in sight and costs the earth to maintain? --- Noyce, Robert A SITI-ITPSIE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently to celebrate his new marriage, Larry is releasing the new Oracle 10G Marriage Builder product, it requires plenty of tuning and costs an absolute fortune. Other features include Parallel nagging, a new wifemon process that never clears anything up and after 3 months the whole product becomes totally unreliable. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, at least he didn't marry Lara Croft. That would do him in faster then Bill Gates. On 01/15/2004 09:19:26 AM, KENNETH JANUSZ wrote: Melanie Craft is a romance novelist and the fourth woman to be known as Mrs. Larry Ellison. This is from an article is today's WSJ print edition page B4. Mrs. Ellison also has a web site although I don't know the address. Mrs. Ellison is 34 years old and Larry is 59. My $0.02 worth, Ken Janusz, CPIM -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Noyce, Robert A SITI-ITPSIE INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: oaktable people
Can I also do what you did from the Tree House - in your garden, that is? Mogens Gary Goodman wrote: I'm going to make Mogens clean my garage ... I'm sorry, I meant further team building ... when he visits for the Symposium in March! Gary (817)424-3443 Office (817)296-8000 Cell -Original Message- Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lies, lies and viscious rumors. It was only the loft of the Garage, and the idea was to create a new, exciting space for the Oracle Museum, complete with webcams. I had planned the Miracle Master Class Teambuilding Exercise as follows: 1. On Sunday evening we would (slowly!) move the stuff from the loft downstairs and stack it carefully. 2. On Monday evening we would put in the new flooring. 3. On Tuesday evening we would put the stacked stuff back up on the loft. As it turned out, it ended up a bit different from the original plan: 1. On Sunday it took the Oakies about 42 minutes to remove everything from the loft. Most of it was thrown out, and Peter Gram even had to rent a new trailer for the junk. 2. Lex and Carel-Jan and Gary Goodman and James Morle and Jon (from Miracle Iceland) were un-stopable and made 80% of the flooring on Sunday. 3. On Monday Lex got the bright idea of doing some heavy changes to the whole construction of the Garage. Which he and Carel-Jan and helpers then did. 4. On Tuesday evening nobody did anything except participate in the Gala Dinner and visit the famous hotdog stand Bjarne's Poelser. 5. I don't know when the stuff is going up there again. I'm afraid. Mogens PS: The Oakies rock. Nothing beats having 18 of them in your house. Gudmundur Josepsson wrote: Onkel Mogens wrote: All to stay in my house (except Gaja - don't know what he's up to). Rock'n'roll. And none of them know what I meant when I asked them to bring some old clothes for some unusual teambuilding... You're not having them do construction work on your house again, are you? Gaja is probably the smart one, he knows what you're up to! My guess is that 'teambuilding' is Danish for 'dig me a 12 x 25 m swimming pool in my back yard and paint my house while you're at it.' Gummi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: oaktable people
Lies, lies and viscious rumors. It was only the loft of the Garage, and the idea was to create a new, exciting space for the Oracle Museum, complete with webcams. I had planned the Miracle Master Class Teambuilding Exercise as follows: 1. On Sunday evening we would (slowly!) move the stuff from the loft downstairs and stack it carefully. 2. On Monday evening we would put in the new flooring. 3. On Tuesday evening we would put the stacked stuff back up on the loft. As it turned out, it ended up a bit different from the original plan: 1. On Sunday it took the Oakies about 42 minutes to remove everything from the loft. Most of it was thrown out, and Peter Gram even had to rent a new trailer for the junk. 2. Lex and Carel-Jan and Gary Goodman and James Morle and Jon (from Miracle Iceland) were un-stopable and made 80% of the flooring on Sunday. 3. On Monday Lex got the bright idea of doing some heavy changes to the whole construction of the Garage. Which he and Carel-Jan and helpers then did. 4. On Tuesday evening nobody did anything except participate in the Gala Dinner and visit the famous hotdog stand Bjarne's Poelser. 5. I don't know when the stuff is going up there again. I'm afraid. Mogens PS: The Oakies rock. Nothing beats having 18 of them in your house. Gudmundur Josepsson wrote: Onkel Mogens wrote: All to stay in my house (except Gaja - don't know what he's up to). Rock'n'roll. And none of them know what I meant when I asked them to bring some old clothes for some unusual teambuilding... You're not having them do construction work on your house again, are you? Gaja is probably the smart one, he knows what you're up to! My guess is that 'teambuilding' is Danish for 'dig me a 12 x 25 m swimming pool in my back yard and paint my house while you're at it.' Gummi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: another OCP question -- help me guys
I demand to know who the other one is! Mogens Rachel Carmichael wrote: you leave me such straight lines :) which part is qualified as an accountant? you volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb? Hm, masochist? Before Jared tries to send everyone over to my list on this topic, I'll try to bring it at least slightly back on topic. I really don't care if someone has a degree or has completed the OCP exams. I want to see what they have done in practice, or if they are interviewing for a truly junior position, I want to know how they learn, what they've played with on their own. Two of the smartest men I have ever known never finished college. --- Niall Litchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rachel writes Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and hire an art history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb (and dartboard while we are at it) Hey I have an *economics* degree, *and* am a part-qualified accountant. I claim that sacrificial lamb position as my own. Nothing so useful as Art in my background, just graphs with the axes befuddled. Niall P.S. I can work powerpoint too. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: oaktable people
Heh-heh. It should be said in all fairness that we don't really spend much time with our website (keeping it updated, for instance - just to mention one minor detail), so we certainly understand if people are asking for directions there :). One very un-serious question: Is it actually possible to do a revoke all from grant;? Mogens Grant Allen wrote: D'oh ... just spotted the link to Oaktable - hidden, of all places, under Links. Who'd a thought ... Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- The contents of this post are my opinions only If swallowed seek medical advice -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Book (was) oaktable people
And since my topic at the Hotsos Symposium is /The DBA is Dead, the Database is Dying... But Our Future Looks Bright/ //there just MIGHT be a need for me to use a few, chosen, Danish bad words. I shall try, of course, to keep it in Danish. Shouldn't offend too many. Can I suggest, Gary, that we also do a Profanity Class 101 for the speakers during the event? I could teach some of it. Mogens Gary Goodman wrote: We may have to add a 'Mogens Nørgaard' profanity clause to the Symposium speaker agreement. I will admit that profanity from Connor does not carry the same impact as profanity from Mogens! Gary -Original Message- Connor McDonald Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm saving that for the Hotsos symposium --- Daniel W. Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who cares about the profanity Do you a) pound nails in a squirrel and b) force David Kurtz to consume massive amounts of gin whilst lobbing Fosters at the audience? Connor McDonald wrote: I have to admit I like this stuff about Connor's book especially since I'm only a co-author for the thing :-) (And unlike my presentations, I promise that there is no profanity in the book...) Cheers Connor --- Niall Litchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't read it yet, but I'd be amazed if Connor's book wasn't excellent. He is a great communicator, despite being an aussie and all. Mogens and Tony from apress are probably pretty busy with the Miracle db forum right now (work gloves and stuff were mentioned euurgh), but there are plans that exist in more than Mogens' head for an OakTable press sequence of books, with apress as publishers. Someone has to write the buggers though. Some of us have work to do. Niall Not american, but not big and not clever either. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 05 January 2004 22:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: oaktable people Conner McDonald's book just came out and it looks to be pretty good. Any more books in the pipeline? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk web: http://www.oaktable.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command
Re: ORA-01578 data block corrupted
If the restore/recovery thing from backup doesn't work (it usually does), it's time to panic in a controlled fashion... Dump the block to see if it's a hard or soft corruption. A hard corruption is when some kind of stray write has hit the block, causing one of many checks against eg the rows to fail. A soft corruption happens when Oracle decides it doesn't have faith in the block anymore, so better corrupt it by zero'ing out part of the footer field. There's no easy way to tell whether it's a hard or soft corruption. You can dump the block and study the header and footer fields to see if they match. If not, it's probably a soft corruption. Or get Peter Gram to look at such stuff. He's crazy. Mogens Nguyen, David M wrote: I got ORA-01578 error while querrying info for below table. How do I fix this error? SQLSelect count(*) from GATEWAYCALLSTATS; * ERROR at line 2: ORA-01578: ORACLE* data block corrupted* (file # 3, block # 2683299) ORA-01110: data file 3: '/apps/oracle/oradata/SIDB/rtesvr01.dbf' Thanks, David -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Should we stop analyzing?
Friends, I'd like to start a debate, which perhaps has already taken place, but if so I don't recall it: Should we stop analyzing tables and indexes? Let me clarify: I've always told people that using the 'monitoring' option (alter table X monitoring in 8i, plus alter index I monitoring in 9i) was a good thing, because they would make sure that after a certain amound of data changes you got fresh stats (after, of course, using dbms_stats.gather_stale_statistics, etc. on the collected objects). We can always discuss whether the 10% threshold that gather_stale_statistics is based on is sound or not, but it can be as good as any other number. Except 42 :). But then I listened to Dave Ensor at the UKOUG conference, and he said roughly this: * Stop analyzing after the first analyze. It's the new stats that cause the optimizer to change execution plans. * I know that big tables tend to stay big. Small tables stay small. Unique indexes stay unique and non-unique indexes stay non-unique... * If the data changes A LOT you should of course re-analyze. It made terrific sense in one respect to let the stats stay the same, thus letting the optimizer have access to the same information, thus choosing the same execution plan instead of changing it constantly. On the other hand it was irritating, because I had always beleived (and said) the opposite. Even more frustrating was Anjo's grin afterwards and his Yeah, of course you shouldn't analyze all the time remark. Hrmf. So everybody else knew but me. Typical. Looking back, I can recall several places where they analyzed every weekend, and on Monday the system could very well behave differently. Makes sense if the optimizer has some new/different information to consider. On the other hand, it feels so intuitively right to constantly have up-to-date stats, doesn't it? I'd like to know what practical and philosofical ideas you guys have on this topic. Best regards - and Happy New Year, Mogens -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
OT: Re: 10g new features question for beta testers
Oh yes, the RDD story is good. Carel-Jan and I were in Paris for Oracle World, sharing the horrendous costs of a hotel room, and having one final beer when the phone rang at 2 am. It was a Dane, and it was also one of Miracle's support customers. Since our motto for Miracle Support is Call us anytime about anything I of course answered the phone. He was slightly drunk after the big Oracle party, he was lost in a deserted area with no roads, couldn't remember the name of his hotel or the street or the Metro station near it, and he had just been robbed by six guys. Initially they had been two, and he fought like a real Dane, but when the four others came around he went down, and they took his wallet. So we asked him several times if he could describe anything he could see, and he finally told us I can zee the Raifel Tover. Is it close? we asked. Noo, it's weeery far awaaay he answered. So now we knew he was in Paris. Finally, after much talking and him walking around for a while, he managed to stop a taxi, who then spoke French to Carel-Jan. Carel-Jan directed the taxi to our hotel, paid it, and led the good Dane to our room. There we washed off the blood mud on him, gave him a beer, and put him to sleep on the floor. He thought he had received splendid support :-). I'm sure this could become a textbook case in some future book by Tom Peters and other management gurus. Mogens Carel-Jan Engel wrote: -Original Message- Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It's the Best of Breed versus One Vendor debate, and there are pros and cons galore. The perfect scenario, of course, is when they combine, so one vendor delivers the best of everything. That's what we have with Microsoft, isn't it? ;-) : Office stuff, OS, Database, ERP, CRM, video player, what have you... Then on the Support side of things, it's indeed good to be able to call One Vendor Only... if that vendor is good at Support. If he isn't, you might be better off if you have more than one option for calling. Mogens Or, when you happen to be a RDD (Robbed Drunk Dane) in Paris, and you're able to call a particular Danish non-Vendor. That might be even better ;-) Regards, Carel-Jan === If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok) === -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Correct way to accuse BCHR tuning method (Was: Hit ratio)
And I think it's important to realise that ratios are useless as a starting point in the tuning process on any system, not only Oracle. Most OS'es and databases use not instrumented correctly to deal with response time measurements (makes you wonder: If response TIME is what matters, how can you then not measure exactly that - time?) - so in the other worlds (Unix, VMS, Windows, SQL Server, MySQL, DB2) people still beleive in the ratios because they have nothing better. Mogens Anjo Kolk wrote: BCHR tuning is useless as a starting point in the tuning process. Anjo. -Original Message- Yong Huang Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [This message is not technical, but educational. Readers interested in technical info only may want to skip] Hi, Cary and Gopal, My last message is misunderstood. Nowadays most DBAs that still use buffer cache hit ratio as a primary performance tuning method are those that rarely browse public forums. When we convince them that's a wrong method, we should not say Look. I can bump up BCHR to an arbitrary value. If he doesn't think, he'll say Indeed. If I can get any value, it must be rubbish. But if he's a logical person and thinks for a few minutes, he'll say It's unfair to run that choose_a_hit_ratio program to get an arbitrary hit ratio and say the method is wrong, because you can use the same logic to write a program to get an arbitrary library cache hit ratio, OS in-core inode cache hit ratio or directory name cache hit... My last message is not meant to revive the outdated and probably never correct tuning method. Instead it's meant to let oracle-l members know that when you need to convince those DBAs that still use that method, you need to accuse the BCHR method for correct reason, namely, BCHR does not contain sufficient information for tuning, not because you can raise its value by constantly scanning a table in Oracle; you won't be able to convince some stubbon DBAs who enjoy thinking in a quiet place. I agree that It's not the ratio that needs condemning, it's the advice about... What I disagree is the wrong educational tool people on public forums have recently used again and again to show the inadequacy of the BCHR tuning method. Yong Huang __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Correct way to accuse BCHR tuning method (Was: Hit ratio)
I think Dave Ensor, at the recent UKOUG conference, called it his portable tuning kit: select elapsed_time, cpu_time from v$sql order by elapsed_time; Mogens Connor McDonald wrote: Yep. Simple example: Even though it seems to be sometimes a little on the 'random' side, the ELAPSED_TIME column on V$SQL in v9 is an absolute god send... Cheers Connor --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I think it's important to realise that ratios are useless as a starting point in the tuning process on any system, not only Oracle. Most OS'es and databases use not instrumented correctly to deal with response time measurements (makes you wonder: If response TIME is what matters, how can you then not measure exactly that - time?) - so in the other worlds (Unix, VMS, Windows, SQL Server, MySQL, DB2) people still beleive in the ratios because they have nothing better. Mogens Anjo Kolk wrote: BCHR tuning is useless as a starting point in the tuning process. Anjo. -Original Message- Yong Huang Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [This message is not technical, but educational. Readers interested in technical info only may want to skip] Hi, Cary and Gopal, My last message is misunderstood. Nowadays most DBAs that still use buffer cache hit ratio as a primary performance tuning method are those that rarely browse public forums. When we convince them that's a wrong method, we should not say Look. I can bump up BCHR to an arbitrary value. If he doesn't think, he'll say Indeed. If I can get any value, it must be rubbish. But if he's a logical person and thinks for a few minutes, he'll say It's unfair to run that choose_a_hit_ratio program to get an arbitrary hit ratio and say the method is wrong, because you can use the same logic to write a program to get an arbitrary library cache hit ratio, OS in-core inode cache hit ratio or directory name cache hit... My last message is not meant to revive the outdated and probably never correct tuning method. Instead it's meant to let oracle-l members know that when you need to convince those DBAs that still use that method, you need to accuse the BCHR method for correct reason, namely, BCHR does not contain sufficient information for tuning, not because you can raise its value by constantly scanning a table in Oracle; you won't be able to convince some stubbon DBAs who enjoy thinking in a quiet place. I agree that It's not the ratio that needs condemning, it's the advice about... What I disagree is the wrong educational tool people on public forums have recently used again and again to show the inadequacy of the BCHR tuning method. Yong Huang __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk web: http://www.oaktable.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g new features question for beta testers
Imagine the banner text: Miracle A/S. The Legacy Support of Tomorrow. Filling the Gap (jeans) like nobody else. Thanks to Tim Gorman for inspiration. I don't recall the text completely anymore, but he used to have this one about Building tomorrow's legacy systems - one crisis at a time. Or something to that effect. Mogens Pete Sharman wrote: But I thought this was the perfect opportunity for Miracle to fill any perceived gap in support? :) Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It's the Best of Breed versus One Vendor debate, and there are pros and cons galore. The perfect scenario, of course, is when they combine, so one vendor delivers the best of everything. That's what we have with Microsoft, isn't it? ;-) : Office stuff, OS, Database, ERP, CRM, video player, what have you... Then on the Support side of things, it's indeed good to be able to call One Vendor Only... if that vendor is good at Support. If he isn't, you might be better off if you have more than one option for calling. Mogens Pete Sharman wrote: Just a couple of comments on this which hopefully won't go down the Marketing track too far. :) 1. I'm pretty sure Steve Adams agrees with you, since he co-presented on ASM at OracleWorld in San Fran. Not sure if he monitors this group actively or not, but I believe the presentation he did is loaded with all the other OracleWorld 2003 presentations so you can see what he said. 2. One point which makes a lot of sense to me, and it happens in a variety of places in 10g such as ASM and the RAC clusterware. If you have one vendor to raise an issue with (not that you'd need to do that with Oracle of course!), it's a lot easier to get an answer without the finger pointing that can go on between vendors. Take the clusterware example - if you run into a problem running RAC on Sun with the Sun Cluster technology and Veritas owning the disk side, who you gonna call? GhostBusters, maybe! But if you're running RAC on Sun with Oracle's clusterware and ASM, it's a lot easier to determine who to call. Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Connor McDonald Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 2:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As with anything I suppose, if a single vendor can be in control of more of the stack between application and physical server structure then there is a greater opportunity for benefits. For example, ASM offers the ability to add disks to a stripe without needing to redistribute(reload) the entire stripeset. A (bug-free) ASM product looks very very impressive to me. Time will tell how close Oracle are to achieving it. hth connor --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no ASMs are considerably different. Its supposed to manage everything. You dont give it a file, you give it entire disks and oracle does everything. Sets up files, manages, I/O, everything. you only look at the tablespace level. you dont even install any software on it. If your on SAN, you dont install SAN software on it. From: Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/12/19 Fri AM 09:14:27 EST To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers That is not exactly a new feature. Oracle 9i has Oracle Managed Files where you give it a directory and then just build tablespaces. The database picks the filenames for you. Now mind you it does work, but I'll be damned if I use it in anything other than a development environment. For some reason Oracle has never gotten over that DUMB SAME (Stripe And Mirror Everything) idea. The concept is great in theory, but in practice it's absolutely abysmal at best. Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new features last night in Reston,VA. I know atleast one other person from the list was there. Since Oracle is releasing details and its going to be released(in theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you guys could talk about it. 1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I always wonder about first generation features... takes most software vendors a couple of generations to get it right(takes any project Im on just as long). This is a radical departure. for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that they will manage your disks for you. All you do
Re: 10g new features question for beta testers
It's the Best of Breed versus One Vendor debate, and there are pros and cons galore. The perfect scenario, of course, is when they combine, so one vendor delivers the best of everything. That's what we have with Microsoft, isn't it? ;-) : Office stuff, OS, Database, ERP, CRM, video player, what have you... Then on the Support side of things, it's indeed good to be able to call One Vendor Only... if that vendor is good at Support. If he isn't, you might be better off if you have more than one option for calling. Mogens Pete Sharman wrote: Just a couple of comments on this which hopefully won't go down the Marketing track too far. :) 1. I'm pretty sure Steve Adams agrees with you, since he co-presented on ASM at OracleWorld in San Fran. Not sure if he monitors this group actively or not, but I believe the presentation he did is loaded with all the other OracleWorld 2003 presentations so you can see what he said. 2. One point which makes a lot of sense to me, and it happens in a variety of places in 10g such as ASM and the RAC clusterware. If you have one vendor to raise an issue with (not that you'd need to do that with Oracle of course!), it's a lot easier to get an answer without the finger pointing that can go on between vendors. Take the clusterware example - if you run into a problem running RAC on Sun with the Sun Cluster technology and Veritas owning the disk side, who you gonna call? GhostBusters, maybe! But if you're running RAC on Sun with Oracle's clusterware and ASM, it's a lot easier to determine who to call. Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Connor McDonald Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 2:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As with anything I suppose, if a single vendor can be in control of more of the stack between application and physical server structure then there is a greater opportunity for benefits. For example, ASM offers the ability to add disks to a stripe without needing to redistribute(reload) the entire stripeset. A (bug-free) ASM product looks very very impressive to me. Time will tell how close Oracle are to achieving it. hth connor --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no ASMs are considerably different. Its supposed to manage everything. You dont give it a file, you give it entire disks and oracle does everything. Sets up files, manages, I/O, everything. you only look at the tablespace level. you dont even install any software on it. If your on SAN, you dont install SAN software on it. From: Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/12/19 Fri AM 09:14:27 EST To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers That is not exactly a new feature. Oracle 9i has Oracle Managed Files where you give it a directory and then just build tablespaces. The database picks the filenames for you. Now mind you it does work, but I'll be damned if I use it in anything other than a development environment. For some reason Oracle has never gotten over that DUMB SAME (Stripe And Mirror Everything) idea. The concept is great in theory, but in practice it's absolutely abysmal at best. Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new features last night in Reston,VA. I know atleast one other person from the list was there. Since Oracle is releasing details and its going to be released(in theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you guys could talk about it. 1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I always wonder about first generation features... takes most software vendors a couple of generations to get it right(takes any project Im on just as long). This is a radical departure. for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that they will manage your disks for you. All you do is give Oracle some Raw Disks and Oracle will set up, and handle all your datafiles. All you do is look at logical tablespaces. It will also handle I/O balancing. How well does this work? Anyone test it with a SAN? 2. RAC Load Balancing. Oracle claims that you only need Oracle software from now on. They also claim that you can load balance multiple applications. Lets say you have One application that runs batch loads over night and a transactional application during the day oracle will automatically steal resources from the other when its not busy... anyone test this? 3. Flashback database. Kyte was the presenter and he said that you can keep massive undo areas, so that if you have a failure or delete data you shouldnt have you can have oracle automatically write the DML necessary to bring it
Re: ANSI join syntax and Oracle 8i
I don't, but perhaps Lex does? He's crazy about that Join stuff and even has a whole one-day class on mathematical methods in SQL. Also, he has written a book on SQL, that still sells well - but it's in Dutch, so you'd have to learn that language first :). Lex - welcome to the Oracle-L list :). I hope you can help Grant with his question? Best regards, Mogens Grant Allen wrote: Does anyone know if the ANSI join syntax (LEFT OUTER JOIN, RIGHT OUTER JOIN, instead of (+) =, etc.) was backported to 8i? Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- The contents of this post are my opinions only If swallowed seek medical advice -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: New TPC benchmarks
Matthew, SAN's incur (much?) more codepath. If that makes things run faster that's excellent and fantastic. If removing a bunch of code and 8 or 9 layers between a server and a disk plate makes things slower there's something else wrong. Time and again we see how a laptop or desktop PC disk can outperform some fancy disk arrangement. That might be because the disk arrangement is not set up correctly, but that again requires a lot of effort and thought - and expensive consultants, which is very cool for me :). Before SAN's there were still some very high performance systems out there. After SAN's there are still some very poor performance systems out there. I work with some of them in the Terabyte range, and - oh lord - they become so expensive that they become political. And then you have the RAID-F's and/or the poorly configured monsteres that no-one can understand or handle anymore. What I think doesn't really matter, because SAN's promise - by adding 8-9 layers of complexity - to simplify the world and automate a lot of things. They do to some extent. But is it always worth the money? With small and medium businesses a number of things have become clear to me (and this is of course different from the monster systems): 1. They end up spending a large proportion of their IT budgets on disk technology. They didn't do that before. 2. They end up having a few servers attached to relatively many disks. Those disks are much more expensive than the ones you can put in, say, products from IFT. 3. They complain that no technician can handle the whole SAN stack. They end up blaming the previous technician. 4. When we do our SANity check - how many reads and writes are actually requested from the servers towards the disks - the picture is often one of far too many disks. The TPC benchmark is useful for comparing what? The TCO is useless precisely because every vendor can prove - using TCO - that they're the best solution. Too many things can be tweaked and twisted - just look at the way they calculate licensing stuff in the TPC benchmarks - it's kind of hard to find out how they arrived at those prices, isn't it? When Oracle puts out features that are excellent and useful for UPS or Amazon, that's nice. It's usually not useful for the rest of the world :). Of course, everything I've said only applies to Denmark. Mogens Matthew Zito wrote: Mogens, I wanted to clear something up - I keep seeing you post that SANs are slower than direct attached - I've said it before and I'll say it again: simply not true. There is zero, zero, zero reason why a SAN must be slower than a direct attached. In fact, in the fastest benchmark described in these results, the 10g on Itanium one, they're using a SAN. The only reason to direct-attach is to keep the cost down when you have a situation where you can run multiple I/O paths from a single node. There is a fixed limit on the number of direct paths you can run to an array - usually 2-4 - which makes things hard if you want an 8-node cluster. In general, the TPC benchmark is not a perfect process. However, having dealt with it in great detail, it is vastly superior to any of its predecessors in terms of simulating a real-world environment. While configurations like 2400 disks seem absurd to those of us in the field, the fact alone that you are required to include the total cost of the solution, plus disclose the complete configuration, and are not allowed to use any hidden or secret functionality is a huge step forward from previous benchmarks. Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 5:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: New TPC benchmarks I love to read the Full Disclosure Reports: There were 672 x 18GB15krpm HDD Ultra320 HP, 1344 x 36GB15krpm HDD Ultra320 HP and 224 x 146GB 10krpm HDD Ultra320 HP in the benchmarked configuration. FYI: 672+1344+224 = 2240. IBM is considering a 1.6M benchmark, and the only problem these days is to find a sponsor for all the hardware you need. It might require 4000 disks - maybe mirrored to a total of 8000? The number of disks involved is becoming a problem for two reasons: One of them will probably fail. And since they're directly attached (for performance, SAN's in general suck compared to direct attach, as you know) it could take three hours to boot the machine. So they're considering going 1+0 aka MASE, not the inferior 0+1 or SAME, of course :). Simply to avoid the reboot time... Today it's only a question of finding a sponsor for the benchmark. Then you can break any report. All the database vendors run their software in special debug modes during benchmarking - in case they hit something nasty :). Notice
Re: SAN Comparison Question
I would go for the one that promises to have a RAID-5 implementation that doesn't suffer from the usual RAID-5 problems. Heh-heh. Mogens Jay Hostetter wrote: One of our hardware guys is seeking an opinion on SANs. He is comparing the Hitachi Thunder 9500 to the HP EVA 5000. Does anybody have any pros or cons to offer for either one? Good or bad experiences? Thank you, Jay **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: for security patches - going to 9.2.0.4
We've had to set the _optimizer_features_enabled or whatever back to 8.1.7 and/or _new_initial_join_order (which defaults to true in 9.2.0.4, at least) to false after seeing a lot of problems going from 8.1.7 to 9.2.0.4. It's happened a couple of times, but I'm not sure if it's a trend or not. Mogens Paul Drake wrote: if you have compatible set to 8.1.7, I'll bet that optimizer features from 9.2.0 aren't available. you would have to decide if you want to use the 9.2 CBO or the 8.1.7 CBO. The only reason that I can think of that you'd want to use the 8.1.7 CBO is if your code ran well in 8.1.7 and some statements never finish (or run orders of magnitude slower) in 9.2. Pd */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I was just wondering if setting compatible back to 8.1.7 for the CBO reasons was still necessary? -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Paul Drake *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2003 4:49 PM *To:* Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject:* RE: for security patches - going to 9.2.0.4 Paula, since you use the export utility - patch to 9.2.0.4. a full export will throw an error in 9.2.0.3, on W2K and on RH 8.0. regarding security, I haven't yet applied the 8.1.7.4.13 patchset (its not yet available) or the SSL-related issues in Oracle Security Alert #62. but the patchset 9.2.0.4.0 is still a pre-requisite for this, as the one-off patchset for 9.2.0.3.0 is not yet available. As far as setting compatible back to 8.1.7, the key thing is not whether you have locally managed tablespaces, but a locally managed _SYSTEM_ tablespace. just wanted to make that clear. Paul */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: That is the case. I do have tablespaces that are locally managed - I did the migrate with compatible set to 8.1.7. I did startup the database. However, my system tablespace is dictionary managed - all others are not. The migration worked. I have large databases and have been using Oracle's migration utility from 7 - 8 and 8 - 9. Yes, it is quirky and tricky but better than export/import on large databases. -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Paul Drake *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:04 PM *To:* Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject:* RE: for security patches - going to 9.2.0.4 Paula, I hope that you are just confused. AFAIK, if you have created a database with a locally managed system tablespace, that you cannot set compatible to anything lower than 9.0.1. Ok, you can set it, but oracle will complain during instance startup and you won't have a database instance to attach to. But this might be a myth of mine, its awhile since I last read the upgrade/migration guide. I can see setting the init.ora parameter optimizer_features_enable = 8.1.7 if the 9.2 CBO acts quite differently from its older brother did, back in 8.1.7. But compatible? I seriously doubt it. If you migrated your db from 8.1.7 to 9.2 and the system tablespace is still dictionary managed - that is a completely different matter. I've been lucky enough that most dbs were small enough to just use exp/imp and move data into a clean, newly created db. Paul */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Guys, I saved all of your writing including Todd Boxx, Richard Foote, Wolfgang... about issues with 9.2.0.4. We are currently on 9.2.0.3 and I understand (although have not hit it yet) that in this version we could get locks when building indexes. Also, that basically you need to set your compatible parameter to 8.1.7. On some databases we have compatible set to 9.2.0.0. Question: -any bugs/problems going to 9.2.0.4 and... -should we really change compatible from 9.X to 8.1.7? We are currently migrating a large database to 9.X and I want to know if I should use the latest
Re: Windows clustering???
And the plans for this, I was informed from a manager at HP last week, are: - It's beta on VMS on Itanium now - It can run in a cluster with an Alpha box - Possible release in 3rd quarter of 2004 Mogens Tanel Poder wrote: Maybe you all already know that, but HP is planning to support OpenVMS on their Itanium servers :) Tanel. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:14 PM I'm guessing they're not running Oracle on this VMS cluster. I really liked the part about the most difficult part was explaining to managers why it was unnecessary to shut systems down, even during the physical relocation. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13002 Imagine if DEC had any marketing... Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: New TPC benchmarks
I love to read the Full Disclosure Reports: There were 672 x 18GB15krpm HDD Ultra320 HP, 1344 x 36GB15krpm HDD Ultra320 HP and 224 x 146GB 10krpm HDD Ultra320 HP in the benchmarked configuration. FYI: 672+1344+224 = 2240. IBM is considering a 1.6M benchmark, and the only problem these days is to find a sponsor for all the hardware you need. It might require 4000 disks - maybe mirrored to a total of 8000? The number of disks involved is becoming a problem for two reasons: One of them will probably fail. And since they're directly attached (for performance, SAN's in general suck compared to direct attach, as you know) it could take three hours to boot the machine. So they're considering going 1+0 aka MASE, not the inferior 0+1 or SAME, of course :). Simply to avoid the reboot time... Today it's only a question of finding a sponsor for the benchmark. Then you can break any report. All the database vendors run their software in special debug modes during benchmarking - in case they hit something nasty :). Notice that they never use anything but shutdown abort in their scripts (Connor - you'll love this). IBM (with DB2) uses a slightly different technique: They take the power. Very fast, they say. Mogens Michael Boligan wrote: http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp Finally, Oracle reclaims the lead! That Sqlserver isn't as scalable argument doesn't work too well when Sqlserver has a higher TPC benchmark. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: New TPC benchmarks
Yes, both DB2, SQL Server and Oracle arrive in special editions for these benchmarks. Note also that no indexes are used - Oracle uses hash clusters, for instance. No indexes in sight. Just like certain large customers are running special versions of the Oracle RDBMS, by the way. So it's all about benchmarks fighting benchmarkers, always on the lookout for a sponsor, and nobody caring anymore about their results. Traditional marketing just doesn't work anymore. It's over. Mogens Paul Drake wrote: what's really helpful about these, are the server tweaks made (if you deploy on win32). check out http://www.tpc.org/results/FDR/TPCC/dell_2650_261103_fdr.pdf Pg 170 - there's a list of all of the services that are disabled/stopped - 24 in all. Pg 224 - the section of the MS diagnostics report lists that provides a detail list of the services. lots of unneccesary features. Pd */Paul Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Nuno, The whole thing is an extravagant waste. I beg to differ. When I ask for 2 external storage units of 14 drives apiece (DAS), and they look at me like I obviously have no clue about their intentions of a 3 drive RAID something other than 10 config, a configuration that they can download just by showing them a link to http://www.tpc.org/results/FDR/TPCC/dell_2650_261103_fdr.pdf is most helpful. But a nice, fat, multipathed slice off of their SAN is fine by me too, just as long as I have enough internal storage to keep an entire hot backup set on disk, along with a member for each redo log, and a controlfile, just in case. Pd */Nuno Pinto do Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Mogens Nørgaard wrote: Today it's only a question of finding a sponsor for the benchmark. Then you can break any report. It's not only today... It's been like that for the last 8 years or so. Basically: Have $$$? Will win is the entire philosophy of all this TPC crap. It's not worth the paper it's printed on. Bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever, no matter how much extrapolation is done to justify it. The whole thing is an extravagant waste. Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21260/*http://photos.yahoo.com Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://us.rd.yahoo.com/slv/mailtag/*http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: rebuilding indexes - sure to cause a ruckus
How about: Keep re-analyzing your tables and indexes. Run gather_statistics (or whatever) all the time. Bobak, Mark wrote: I think this subject has been done to death. We should talk about less contentious issues such as: - The buffer cache hit ratio, your friend in expert Oracle tuning! - Rebuild your tables regularly to reduce the number of extents and improve performance! - Disk access is at least 10,000x slower than memory, to tune your database, eliminate physical I/O! Anyone else got and good ones? ;-) -Mark -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L BTW, does anyone know what a rocket scientist refers to when they say Hey, this is all quite easy, it sure ain't ? ? Cheers ;) Richard Surely the Rocket Scientist version must be Hey, this is all quite easy, it sure ain't index rebuilding very evil grin Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what happened to baarf.net?
It's on www.baarf.com and there are some pretty good articles there. Best regards, Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone got the articles about why raid 5 is bad for databases? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ETAGON...
Good stuff. Thanks. So what you're saying below is this: Before: 2 16-cpu Sun's: $600K for HW and OS plus 32 x $40K for Oracle, ie a total of $1.680K? Is that correct? After: 5 4-cpu Intel boxes: $100K for HW and OS plus 20 x $60K for Oracle, ie a total of 1.300K? What confuses me, I think, is the difference in number of CPU's mentioned when only the additonal RAC price tag of $20K was mentioned. Is it possible to move from 32 Sparc CPU's to 20 Intel CPU's? Mogens Yechiel Adar wrote: I concur about the software prices on big machines. We work with IBM mainframes and the last upgrade cost us a lot in SOFTWARE licenses, since we moved into a higher performance group. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:49 PM Well, I'm going to get involved here saying upfront that my company is a competitor of Etagon's, so I'm certainly biased, both about us vs. Etagon and RAC in general. However, the financial savings of RAC can be significant - we do cost analyses all the time of RAC for potential customers, and its often as simple as: 2 mid-size sun servers (we'll say 16 processors) - $300,000 each = $600,000 a cluster of 5 4-way servers = $100,000 Cost of RAC per processor (list, even!) - $20,000 x 20 = $400,000 So, not taking into account the cost of clustering software for the two big sun boxes, the cost of downtime due to hardware failure, sun platinum support, discounted RAC licenses, forklift upgrades, and more expensive backup and other software licenses for larger servers - basically the simplest analysis you can do, RAC is still $100k cheaper. If we do add in those other factors, RAC becomes even more cost-effective. Where some of those cost savings get eaten up, though is in additional complexity and administration cost - which is where companies like mine and Etagon find a market. RAC is hard, there's no question. The financial savings in RAC generally don't come from the license costs (I can show how you can save on license costs, but we're straying into an advertisement for our product at that point), they come from improved availability and reduced hardware costs. Big SMP servers are exponentially more expensive than small ones, and the software that runs on them is correspondingly exponentially expensive. Thanks, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: ETAGON... Etagon invited me to come and visit them at their stand at the UKOUG conference in Birmingham next week. Don't know if I'll have time or not, but in general I'm still looking for hard evidence of financial savings using RAC, ie a real comparison where switching to RAC (on whatever platform) meant lower license costs in total. I've only seen calculations where the price of RAC was omitted or hugely discounted. I'm even willing to ignore the increase in complexity that follows from clustering and RAC'ing... One thing, though, that I will not accept, is this notion of TCO. It seems that anybody can use that thing to prove any point, so it becomes hard to compare :). If RAC is cheaper for you than non-RAC it must be because you save the $20K per CPU somewhere else. Or? Mogens Gunnar Berglund wrote: Hi all, I would like to hear, if you have any experience concering Etagon... Short review: Etagon is an Israeli company and their product is Data Center Automation SW focussing initially on Oracle 9i RAC clustering SW. Etagon claims that their SW can produce fundamental savings in 9i RAC installation and lifecycle management. Please see their web site; www.etagon.com http://www.etagon.com I'd be interested to hear if you know Etagon already and in any case what is your take on their value proposition. Is 9i RAC installation maintenance a real pain point to you? And could Etagon SW possibly ease that pain? -- -- Download Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_messenger/*http://downloa d.yahoo.com/dl/intl/ymsgruk.exe now for a chance to WIN http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_messenger/*http://messenger.promotions. yahoo.com/rwuk Robbie Williams Live At Knebworth DVD -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself
Re: ETAGON...
Etagon invited me to come and visit them at their stand at the UKOUG conference in Birmingham next week. Don't know if I'll have time or not, but in general I'm still looking for hard evidence of financial savings using RAC, ie a real comparison where switching to RAC (on whatever platform) meant lower license costs in total. I've only seen calculations where the price of RAC was omitted or hugely discounted. I'm even willing to ignore the increase in complexity that follows from clustering and RAC'ing... One thing, though, that I will not accept, is this notion of TCO. It seems that anybody can use that thing to prove any point, so it becomes hard to compare :). If RAC is cheaper for you than non-RAC it must be because you save the $20K per CPU somewhere else. Or? Mogens Gunnar Berglund wrote: Hi all, I would like to hear, if you have any experience concering Etagon... Short review: Etagon is an Israeli company and their product is Data Center Automation SW focussing initially on Oracle 9i RAC clustering SW. Etagon claims that their SW can produce fundamental savings in 9i RAC installation and lifecycle management. Please see their web site; www.etagon.com http://www.etagon.com I'd be interested to hear if you know Etagon already and in any case what is your take on their value proposition. Is 9i RAC installation maintenance a real pain point to you? And could Etagon SW possibly ease that pain? Download Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_messenger/*http://download.yahoo.com/dl/intl/ymsgruk.exe now for a chance to WIN http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_messenger/*http://messenger.promotions.yahoo.com/rwuk Robbie Williams Live At Knebworth DVD -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Which storage solution is good or you will recommend
Just wait till we post Jesper Haure's RAID-4/5 simulator, where a home-written XOR function plus a table with column A = disk A, etc... It should be ready RSN. Mogens Carel-Jan Engel wrote: Hi Jack, Any BAARF-compliant solution will do. Look at www.baarf.com At 12:34 2-12-03 -0800, you wrote: Hi, We need storage solution for Oracle database because we store a lot of tiff images and pdf files with the database, which storage solution are you using or which one you will recommend? Thanks, Jack Regards, Carel-Jan -- There will allwasy be another 10 last bugs -- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Copying stats between/amongst schemas
dbms_stats is the only sanctioned way to do it. Orr, Steve wrote: 1 database instance, 2 nearly identical schemas. What's the best sanctioned way to copy stats, (including histograms), from one schema to another? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is oracle rdb?
Oh yes, even Lego complained about the price increase of support, upgrade rights and software. It was very steep. But they all accepted that the real price of their software had been covered up by Digital selling other things like hardware... Oracle just sells software. Still it was a problem for many small Rdb shops here. Thanks for reminding me. Mogens PS: And that #¤#/ enormous hit rate on Metalink searches has GOT to have a good explanation. It's been there for five or six years at least. I've BCC'ed David Ruthven, who helped invent the WebIV stuff. David - why the constant Rdb hits when searching? Jesse, Rich wrote: Brilliant, as always. Well deserved award, IMHO. No Academy(R) nomination on the way just yet, though. ;) BTW, the largest RDB customers seems like they've had a different experience than the littler ones. When Oracle bought RDB, they came to our parent company with a huge increase in the price tag for maintenance. I don't remember exactly, but it was either 100% or 200% *increase* for no added benefits and a drawback (perceived or real) of diminished service. So, our VP at the time gave Larry the finger and went with Sybase, which is now migrating into DB2 for a multi-billion dollar company. Oracle could have had a nice fat contract if they hadn't screwed us over like that. I still miss RDB...except when it constantly pops up in Metalink searches. :) Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As the AWE (Award-Winning Educator) of the year, I have a huge responsibility placed on my shoulders: I have to answer questions regarding Rdb truthfully. So here we go... Back in the year 1994, Digital very discreetly asked their three biggest customers (including Lego) what they thought of the idea of Digital selling Rdb and other stuff to Oracle. This was before Oracle was asked, mind you. At the time, Lego had 700+ Rdb databases running. The three big ones answered back that if Oracle was the safe bet for securing their product for the next five to ten years, then fine. Then Digital went to Oracle and sold the stuff for at cheap price. I remember the Digital CEO asking the Oracle folks kindly to please treat their old, beloved customers nicely. It was - Goddamn it! - actually a quite touching moment, if you had any ideas back then about the level of integrity and support in the Digital community. That's how I came to deliver the first-ever course at Lego in their HQ in Denmark (in a town called Billund, but certainly not named after The Bill). Why did I deliver an Oracle course there, when they had Rdb already (and working like a charm, mind you)? Because all of the Rdb customers concluded this: We'll run all our old systems on Rdb for many years to come, but we'll base all our new systems on Oracle. Oracle has done the right things about Rdb again and again and again after taking over the shop from Digital. They kept the bearded, bitter, old, twisted, spec-writing folks of the New England Development team. They let them get on with what they did best: Write new features for Rdb. They borrowed good ideas from them and fed it into Oracle. They let them use good Oracle ideas in Rdb. I have never, ever, seen any take-over work so well in the IT industry. Ask the Rdb customers (Lego, Novo, etc.) and they will tell you they still trust Oracle and Rdb. Incredibly well done. Respect. Oh, and many years later my guys in Premium Services were among the first five people to know about Lego's desire to change from SAP to Apps. Those were the days: We had so much Lego Mindstorm stuff (for the very cheap company price) available we didn't know what to do. Of course the whole thing failed, and they went back to SAP, but the guys still talk about the Lego sets... but not about the project itself. I think that Lego today is moving as fast as possible towards SQL Server and a general Windows strategy. These days, you don't get fired from choosing Microsoft. Jesse - was this what you wished for, or did it suck? Mogens Jesse, Rich wrote: Where's our Award-Winning Educator and former Lego DBA, Mogens? If there is one dream job for me, it would be an Oracle DBA at Lego. And I was upset to find that someone took my legoman username from my ISP at home. :( Rich -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message
Re: what is oracle rdb?
Yeah, why did they do the right thing here, but not in other places? Very good question. Oracle has bought many, many companies and products over the years... One splendid thought I just had: Because it never became something to handle high up in the organisation, hence it never became a political issue, and therefor most of the BS has been avoided. Nothing - nothing - beats leaving the folks alone to do the job. That's why the bearded fellows have kept working at the NEDC (New England Development Center), as I think it's called. Mogens Thater, William wrote: Mogens Nørgaard scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: That's how I came to deliver the first-ever course at Lego in their HQ in Denmark (in a town called Billund, but certainly not named after The Bill). yes i'm sure it's not named after me... oh you meant the other bill.;-) Oracle has done the right things about Rdb again and again and again after taking over the shop from Digital. They kept the bearded, bitter, old, twisted, spec-writing folks of the New England Development team. They let them get on with what they did best: Write new features for Rdb. They borrowed good ideas from them and fed it into Oracle. They let them use good Oracle ideas in Rdb. I have never, ever, seen any take-over work so well in the IT industry. Ask the Rdb customers (Lego, Novo, etc.) and they will tell you they still trust Oracle and Rdb. Incredibly well done. Respect. i wonder why this one worked and the other's haven't? what made this one different? i can't say the Oracle has exhibited this kind of integrity in other places. Jesse - was this what you wished for, or did it suck? well, i don't know about him, but i found it interesting. -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song [EMAIL PROTECTED] SCCS, the source motel! Programs check in and never check out! - Ken Thompson -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is oracle rdb?
As the AWE (Award-Winning Educator) of the year, I have a huge responsibility placed on my shoulders: I have to answer questions regarding Rdb truthfully. So here we go... Back in the year 1994, Digital very discreetly asked their three biggest customers (including Lego) what they thought of the idea of Digital selling Rdb and other stuff to Oracle. This was before Oracle was asked, mind you. At the time, Lego had 700+ Rdb databases running. The three big ones answered back that if Oracle was the safe bet for securing their product for the next five to ten years, then fine. Then Digital went to Oracle and sold the stuff for at cheap price. I remember the Digital CEO asking the Oracle folks kindly to please treat their old, beloved customers nicely. It was - Goddamn it! - actually a quite touching moment, if you had any ideas back then about the level of integrity and support in the Digital community. That's how I came to deliver the first-ever course at Lego in their HQ in Denmark (in a town called Billund, but certainly not named after The Bill). Why did I deliver an Oracle course there, when they had Rdb already (and working like a charm, mind you)? Because all of the Rdb customers concluded this: We'll run all our old systems on Rdb for many years to come, but we'll base all our new systems on Oracle. Oracle has done the right things about Rdb again and again and again after taking over the shop from Digital. They kept the bearded, bitter, old, twisted, spec-writing folks of the New England Development team. They let them get on with what they did best: Write new features for Rdb. They borrowed good ideas from them and fed it into Oracle. They let them use good Oracle ideas in Rdb. I have never, ever, seen any take-over work so well in the IT industry. Ask the Rdb customers (Lego, Novo, etc.) and they will tell you they still trust Oracle and Rdb. Incredibly well done. Respect. Oh, and many years later my guys in Premium Services were among the first five people to know about Lego's desire to change from SAP to Apps. Those were the days: We had so much Lego Mindstorm stuff (for the very cheap company price) available we didn't know what to do. Of course the whole thing failed, and they went back to SAP, but the guys still talk about the Lego sets... but not about the project itself. I think that Lego today is moving as fast as possible towards SQL Server and a general Windows strategy. These days, you don't get fired from choosing Microsoft. Jesse - was this what you wished for, or did it suck? Mogens Jesse, Rich wrote: Where's our Award-Winning Educator and former Lego DBA, Mogens? If there is one dream job for me, it would be an Oracle DBA at Lego. And I was upset to find that someone took my legoman username from my ISP at home. :( Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 7:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tuesday, November 25, 2003, 7:04:25 AM, Boivin, Patrice J ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: BPJ I heard that Lego is one a big user of RDB. Don't know if it's true. As in Lego blocks? Cool. Heh, I just spent the better part of my Sunday afternoon buying compartmentized boxes and helping my son sort all his legos. When I was a kid, back when the dinasaurs roamed, I had perhaps a dozen distinct Lego shapes to worry about. Now there are so many that I'm sometimes at a loss as to how to categorize and sort them. The worst is when my son pulls out instructions for some Lego toy he bought a year ago, points to his bin with a full Gigablock of Legosgrin, and wants me to help him put together whatever it is. Hence, I've decided to help him sort things out a bit. He might even have a Terablock, I'm afraid to count. Best regards, Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is oracle rdb?
It's still on the price list. Download the latest price list from Oracle and search for rdb - it's on page 4 out of 9. $40K per cpu - just like Oracle EE. Trusted Oracle, to my knowledge, had nothing to do with Rdb. Lots of useful stuff came into the Oracle code from the Digital guys. Bellow, Bambi wrote: I believe it *is* still sold; it is certainly still supported. As to why you would buy it, I don't know why anyone would have bought it when Digital was at its prime. I've never liked it. But, it is secure. As of 1993, it was rated B1, when no other database was higher than C2 (they were bound to the operating system to provide security). I think Oracle ingested Rdb's internals and it became Trusted Oracle; but, if you want the Real McCoy, you want Rdb. Of course, if you *really* want the Real McCoy, you need VMS, too (which is rated in the A's with the duplicate password and the generate password and the min password length features). Due to a sudden reversal of earth and sky, VMS is available exclusively from HP. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L does oracle still sell it? why would you buy it over the rdbms? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 3:59 PM RDB was bought from Digital Corporation many years ago. Supposedly a lot of the CBO was lifted from it. -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it referred to on metalink alot. I know its seperate from the rdbms. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tony Johnson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: FW: SAN configuration for Banner
Oh well, even though we're not talking about RAID-F anymore, let's break the rule now and then :-). It's funny to see how the technical guys say the correct things, the vendor guy says some rubbish, and the manager guy decides to do as the vendor says. Maybe that sort of interesting decision process always happens when managers have to make decisions about expensive stuff. Maybe there's a law about big amounts. But we should rejoice: We have said the right things, and they didn't listen. We have therefor, without any loss of integrity, created a wonderful area of future work. In these times where companies are looking for RAIA-I and RAIA-C (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Asians - India/China) solutions, anything that creates future performance and availability problems in our home countries should be welcomed. Here's a useless fact: When looking yesterday at Full Disclosure Reports for various tpc-c benchmarks at www.tpc.org, I found that all of them use striping, but of course not RAID-5 (hey, benchmarks are for performance). And they never use a SAN, of course. Nobody wants all the codepath of 8-9 layers of distraction (or was it abstraction) between the OS and the disk plates. Too much overhead, and it's not needed. So I had a chat with a friend of mine who's done real benchmarks. I was commenting on the fact, that for the 1million tpc-c benchmark Oracle did recently, they used 120 73GB disks plus 2100 36GB disks. Microsoft with their 80 tpc-c benchmark only used 1754 disks or so (60 for the log, 2 for the OS, the rest for data). My friend then told me that he always believed that you should never use a SAN for a high-performance system. Always direct attach. When doing benchmarks, though, they would run into the problem that with 1000s of disks attached it could take several hours to boot the system (and you need to do that regularly when doing benchmarks!). So in the benchmark world they're moving into RAID-10 now in order to be able to sustain disk losses (they happen frequently when using 1000s of disks) without having to boot the server. We also discussed availability of standalone versus clustered nodes. I have, based on the discussion, devised the following simple formula: A = (100 - Nc)% where A is Availability and Nc is number of Nodes in a cluster. Consolidations mean future work near you! So let's support SAN's, clusters, database consolidation, and all such things. Let's increase chaos. It's our only chance of survival. Mogens Paul Baumgartel wrote: Oh boy. I'd first challenge the I disagree..RAID 5 is a proven technology. Ask him for credible research and/or statistics that support his position. Sure, RAID 5 is a proven technology...so are floppy disks, and so what? Second: clustered systems with failover mitigate disk array performance considerations? Just how does THAT work? Good luck! Paul --- Sam Bootsma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, We are approaching the cusp of a decision on how to store Oracle data files on our SAN. We don't have the SAN yet, but it is due to arrive any week (if not any day). I passed Cary's Is RAID 5 Really a Bargain? paper to our Sys Admin, which he read and succinctly summarized for the Technical Manager here. I have also read through a couple of papers referenced in the BAARF site. The Sys Admin comments were: Dell would like to know what RAID mode we want configured on the SAN for the B80 and 6C4 computers. Sam has told me that, in the Oracle community, mirroring (RAID1) is preferred over RAID 5 for various reasons (RAID5 is: more costly for write-intensive applications, 3 times more likely to incur data loss, suffers from massive performance degradation during partial outages). RAID1 will be more costly per unit of usable storage. Mirroring seems to be the best choice. Let me know what you think. Here is the Manager's response: Any suggestions on how I can counter points 4 and 5 - and the last point before his Thanks line? Currently we have two B80's (AIX 4.3.3) set up in a HA configuration. They share an external disk array. So if a hardware component in the primary box fails, then it will automatically failover to the secondary box (and at the same time, the secondary box takes control of the external disk array). I think the clustering term in point (4) is referring to this setup. Thanks for any suggestions. Sam. Sent: November 18, 2003 5:08 PM All the points are valid...however..my thought processes were as follows: 1. The System Core Application disks are resident on the disks within the CPU and Mirrorred (Everyone OK with that I think) 2. The Databases are Resident on the SAN 3. The SAN disks are RAID 5 as the provide more usable space for the cost as compared to mirrorring 4. As the IBM Systems (B80's 6C4's) are clusterd thus effectivley Mirrors the RAID 5 Arrays mitigating the issues Sam raises re preformance degradation
Re: Does anything run on RAC? paper
I didn't think there were other clustered databases?! Mogens Pete Sharman wrote: If you're a member of the UKOUG (probably unlikely, but worth a try!) it's on their web site I believe. I still haven't managed to get Jonathan to add my editorial but every example you give would wreck ANY clustered database, Oracle's or not to his presentation. Oh, well! :) Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA. -Original Message- Rognes, Sten Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've been looking for a copy of Jonathan Lewis' Does Anything Run on RAC? paper/presentation without luck. If anyone has a url to where it can be downloaded from or could send me a copy it is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sten -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Uncle Larry, wake up!!!
Amen. In Miracle we'll do nicely in the years to come by being able to support VMS, PL/SQL (the COBOL of the databases - widely used, very efficient, not in vogue anymore for new projects), perhaps Oracle (if it goes the way we could fear), UNIX (which is certainly dead now - if you had any doubts before, it's obvious by now. It's over.), and other legacy products and systems. It might not be a growth area, but it will be around for many years. There are so many good ideas out there from the various database vendors. The whole MySQL thing seems very smart (and will win over PostgreSQL of course, because the marketing is better). Microsoft's idea of allowing you to write stored procedures in .Net compliant languages (I wish Oracle would make PL/SQL .Net compliant - that would be very cool indeed) which makes it possible to get rid of that #¤% TransactSQL crap. Oracle's new-found emphasis on the right performance stuff in 10g. But I wonder if databases will be something special at all in a few years time? Why not just do Google-things for selects and some not-yet-invented Google-DML on all sorts of data sources? Microsoft will make SQL Server a part of the file system in 2005, I think. Then what? It's Linux and Windows and nothing else then. Mogens Melanie Caffrey wrote: This is true, Tom. Some technologies never die ... Personally, COBOL and CICS are not my favorite skillsets, *but* knock wood if it ever comes down to going back to coding in COBOL or being unemployed then --- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's a quiet little secret in consultant-land right now that the older technologies are in play. as the older-folks retire, there is a need for cobol-based support. especially in NY state agencies. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Goulet, Dick scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: OH, ANCIENT History!! u... do i admit to getting a job hit last week because i know CICS?;-) it's still out there and still being used. -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song [EMAIL PROTECTED] A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labours of others. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle /db2
At the Database Forum here in Denmark recently we had one presentation comparing stuff between Oracle, SQL Server and DB2: The Heterogeneous DBA by Chuck Sodowsky from Quest. It seemed to me like he knew what he was talking about. Maybe he can help? I don't have his email present. Mogens *//* Pete Sharman wrote: Joe Not sure if it's that specific, but there has been material put up on searchDatabase.com that does some of this. I can dig out the URL for you if you haven't already seen that. Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Testa Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 12:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well i've been tasked to do some crosstraining of db2 DBAs to teach them oracle(dark side, ok more expensive side). Does anyone know of a white paper, document, book, etc that would do DBA tasks comparisons? looking for something like alter database datafile 'filename' resize 1000m; command in oracle is equivalent to that in db2/udb. Does something like that exist? thanks, joe -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
You had everybody convinced by your speach down there in South Africa! I think actually SQL Server SE is 1/3, not 2/3, of Oracle SE and 1/2 of EE as you state. DB2 is about the same as SQL Server. No idea about Sybase. I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), and include all the other options at no extra price in EE. I always wondered how much extra revenue these options really generated compared to all the extra work required to convince people and manage separate options, etc. The OLAP thing, for instance, is included in SQL Server EE, but not in Oracle EE. But Oracle has other unique options (the security stuff, etc.) that would make it a good bargain then. I think you're right: Oracle is too expensive at the moment for most uses and users. Mogens Niall Litchfield wrote: Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Your new book
I think Cary has put performance tuning on a solid math foundation, not just the Oracle one. I'm writing a little paper (not much yet) on why you can not optimise any other system right than the MVS environment and the Oracle database. The MySQL people are currently reading Cary's book and learning that they should not put in all those things we got in Oracle6 for ratios and stuff, but instead instrument the code right and allow the optimisers, the tools and the users to view session-based measurements of what went on. Windows, Linux, Unix, and all the other databases can't do that. That's my happy claim :). Mogens DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: I think Cary deserves a vote of appreciation for Part II of his book. I feel (based on the comments of others, haven't waded through it myself yet) that he has put Oracle performance tuning on a solid mathematical foundation. My first education was engineering and I learned was that a practice that rests on a solid mathematical foundation is not easily overturned. A great example for we DBAs is relational database theory, which rests on relational algebra. Fads come and go that threaten to obsolete the relational database, but since none of them has a solid mathematical foundation, they soon fade. If you gave me a quiz on relational algebra today, I'd probably flunk it, like many people that daily work with relational databases. But that doesn't stop us from making use of the fruits of the theory. Similarly, I don't think we need to understand Part II in detail to successfully use Cary's methods to tune an Oracle database. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I also am not Cary . I have however read Cary's book from cover to cover (including spending rather too long on a romantic weekend in paris with my wife contemplating a 10046 trace parsing project :(). I Am rereading and intend to require my fellow DBAs and sysadmins to read it. However to attempt to answer your questions. Yes it is different from every other tuning book out there (though there is *some* overlap with Christpher Lawson's 'the art and science of oracle performance tuning'). The difference is exactly in the approach - the central thesis of the book is (something like) that by utilizing well specified and targeted extended sqltrace data for problem user actions the Oracle performance analyst can quickly and efficiently resolve Oracle performance problems that debilitate the business performance of Oracle based systems. This approach - to target problem business processes, find out why they run slowly and optimize them, is exactly what the RDBMS world needs (IMO). In addition the method Cary and Jeff describe predicts when it will (and more importantly) won't be of use. Is it more readable than others? Here I do have some reservations. The first and last third of the book are extremely readable, and the character and humour of the authors shines through. The formal central section will put off some (maybe a significant number) of readers though. Stephen Hawking in 'A Brief History of Time' writes Someone told me that each equation I put in the book would halve the sales. I therefore resolved not to have any equations at all. In the end, however, I did put in one equation, Einstein's famous equation E=mc². Cary and Jeff have either not been given this advice, or ignored it in the interests of accuracy. The advantage that this gives is that the book has a formal methodology that puts others to shame - the disadvantage is that folk look at pages filled with equations full of queueing theory and Greek symbols and react badly. I hope that the advice is wrong, but fear that it may not be. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Michael Milligan Sent: 21 October 2003 17:49 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Your new book Cary, I don't mean to ask you to brag, but can you please tell me if your new book, of which I've heard good things, is different in any way than other Oracle Performance Tuning books out. Does it take a different approach? Does it teach different methodologies? Is it more readable? I'd be very interested in your own assessment. What did you try to accomplish with this book? TIA, Michael Milligan Oracle DBA Ingenix, Inc. 2525 Lake Park Blvd. Salt Lake City, Utah 84120 wrk 801-982-3081 mbl 801-628-6058 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this
Re: Your new book
What's wrong with having a Scandinavian accent?!? :-). I remember taking a class by Andre Bakker, a Dutch genius, who at one point was VP of Support in Oracle, when I joined Oracle. I couldn't figure out why on Earth you would want Oracle version 6 to run on a fax... until I realised a few hours into the presentation that he meant VAX. I felt sort of silly. April Wells wrote: I took a discrete structures for computer science math class as an undergrad. It was great, once I got past the Swedish accent of the instructor and figured out that contraposite was the contra opposite. Yes, a highly recommended class, even if you don't do well in it. It changes how you approach things. April Wells Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA Corporate Systems Amarillo Texas /\ / \ / \ \ / \/ \ \ \ \ Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite Adam Wells age 11 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Your new book i took a discrete math class last summer at a state university. Id recommend for all technical people. I hadnt had math in 10 years and found it extremely difficult(half the class failed). the problem solving skills you get out of doing are incredible. No you dont learn new oracle commands but your able to solve problems easier. I found that understanding data modelling and general algorithm writing is easier now as well. It also blends well with undergraduate computer science classes(which I found to be more difficult than actually doing my job, btw). Im planning on taking more math over the next few years. Just not sure what to take. I dont really like it. Its one of those things that sucks to do while you learn it,but when your done your glad you did it. thanks for the in depth posts Carrie. From: Thater, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 09:39:24 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Your new book -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Niall, This is a very kind, and I believe (maybe it's only hopeful belief) a very accurate depiction of what the book is. I have read Hawking's note to which you refer. Honestly, I included the formulas for two reasons: 1) To communicate the relationships of trace lines to each other would have been virtually impossible to do economically with words. I really don't know how I would have done it, since there are so many necessary references to the central e ~ c + sum(ela) equation. 2) In the queueing chapter, I believe I needed to show people my work. Otherwise, I don't know how they could have confirmed or refuted my statements... [Shrek] oh how the last one brings back memories of teachers yelling at me yes that's the right answer, but you have to show your work! and me saying but that's the only answer that fits!... i lost every time.;-) and i got bad math grades too.;-) not having read the book yet, i for one, am glad you did show the work even if it is hard to follow. i like authors who don't think the reader has the lights on but no one's home.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law: Murphy was an optimist. The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
Re: Separate Indexes and Data
A fine response, Richard. Thank you. One of the guys coding the index stuff was/is Jonathan Klein, and I remember asking him some years ago about reuse of index blocks, and he - at that point - said that he was pretty sure he put the reuse of leaf blocks into 7.1, but that branch blocks didn't get reused. That was then, and I think it has changed since. Not that it matters that much - there are few branch blocks compared to leaf blocks, and it's not often a branch blocks is completely emtied anyway :). Mogens Richard Foote wrote: Hi All, I'm having all sorts of problems getting these emails in a logical order (if at all). This is the first post on this subject I've received since I posted to Rachael, I haven't even received my own post yet !! Anyways, going back in order First to John, no, not all monotonically here today, gone tomorrow indexes require rebuilding. Note that fully emptied index blocks get placed on the freelist and are fully reusable by subsequent index splits. Therefore if you perform batch deletes over a specific period whereby most deleted entries fully empty a range of index nodes, then frequent rebuilding is highly questionable. Yes, Index Scans/Fast Full Index Scans etc. could be impacted in the interim, it kinda depends on *when* the same volume of data is to be reinserted. Jared, please do write your article (the more solid articles out there the better)!! However note that Jonathan Lewis has written a couple of nice articles over at www.dbazine.com regarding some truths about indexes and index rebuilding. Unfortunately the same site hosts truly awful articles by John Weeg and Mike Hordila who both promote some shocking untruths/myths regarding indexes (that Oracle indexes become unbalanced, that deleted space is never reused, that 4 extents is sufficient for an index, etc. etc.) so one needs to exercise caution when reading stuff from there. Jay, note that indexes generally *do* release space from deleted entries !! Deleted space from a index node within the current index structure can be totally reused by subsequent inserts. And as mentioned earlier, fully emptied blocks can be reused by subsequent index block splits. The requirement to rebuild an index is *extremely rare*. This subject has been raised a number of times recently on the Oracle newgroups (eg. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl4040185351ddq=hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8selm=QPThb.146517%24bo1.128474%40news-server.bigpond.net.au http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl4040185351ddq=hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8selm=QPThb.146517%24bo1.128474%40news-server.bigpond.net.au ). It feels like fighting a lossing battle but one can only try. Yes bulk deletes without subsequent re-inserts or without re-inserts within a reasonable period requires both table and hence index rebuilds (to reset HWMs). Yes *sparse* deleting of *monotonically* increasing index entries might require index rebuilds (or coalescing) to compact index structure for both range scan and fast full index scans. But these are generally *exceptions*, not the norm. Hope this mail makes it ?? Cheers Richard - Original Message - *From:* John Kanagaraj mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:44 AM *Subject:* RE: RE: Separate Indexes and Data Jared, Any indexes supporting a In-Today; Gone-Tomorrow status table will require index rebuilds. Most of them have monotonically increasing numbers which lends itself to a 'holey' index... (I have a bunch of them with Oracle Apps Concurrent Manager and Workflow tables) John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional! ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2003 11:39 AM *To:* Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject:* RE: RE: Separate Indexes and Data hmmm... fodder for an article I've been contemplating. Indexes: to rebuild or not to rebuild - that is the question There's no need to reclaim space, except in special circumstances. As Kirti pointed out once, a sequentially incrementing numeric key is possibly one of those circumstances. Not much point in rebuilding indexes in most cases. If anyone cares to submit test cases for validation of the need of an index rebuild, you may do so here. Give me some test fodder! Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/13/2003 08:59 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple
Re: Where can I download 10g ?
At least I would then die with a broad smile on my face, knowing that that version was delayed, too... Pete Sharman wrote: Sure, I've got an accurate rumour. Of course, I'd have to kill you if I told you. Do you really want to know that much? :) Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Hately, Mike (LogicaCMG) Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 3:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Best plan at the moment is : 1) Wait patiently for between 3 and 10 months (anyone got an accurate rumour for a release date?). 2) Download from Technet. Regards, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 16 October 2003 16:49 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Is RBO there in 10g?
We had a question recently on the list about RBO still physically being there in 10g or not. I asked Graham Wood in Development, and here's his reply: == RBO is still there. De-supported means that if you find a bug, such as wrong results, in RBO it will not be fixed, and you will be told to use CBO instead. Bugs such as poor performing plans haven't been fixed in RBO for a long time. Additionally the default optimizer mode will be all_rows, rather than choose. There was a paper by George Lumpkin at OW called RBO R.I.P. which had this stuff in it. == Best regards, Mogens -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OW Paris get-together, was : Re: where is Tanel ?
I'll be in Paris. Have to receive my Oracle Magazine reward and admire La Defense - or vice versa. Mogens Stephane Faroult wrote: I have just received an e-mail from Tanel saying he had not had the time to participate recently and enquiring about any list get-together at Oracle World Paris. I won't attend OW myself but I'll happen to be in the very same area, invoicing happily, on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday till I leave to catch a plane for the Chris Date seminar in Edinburgh. For those of you who don't know La Defense, where it takes place, and have a romantic vision of Paris, brace yourself for a cruel disappointment, since La Defense is the business district, also known as Manhattan-sur-Seine (although in truth buildings are a modest 40 floors at most) and technically speaking isn't in Paris proper. Places to have a drink are nevertheless numerous. I guess that as a native I am designated to be the coordinator, so please e-mail me directly so that we try to arrange something. SF M Rafiq wrote: I am missing his presence too? It looks he became angry because of some personal remarks by our some fellow listers. Tanel, where are you? We already lost active participation of Steve Adam too. Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:19:52 -0800 Looks like Tanel Podar is hiding some where or restraining from answering ? Missing his highly sophisticated answers ;) -ak _ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: M Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SUPPRESS SQL STATEMENTS
Start the script from another script? Johan Muller wrote: A script dumps out table info. (sqlplus on aix 4.3.3 and oracle 8.1.7). I cannot suppress the PROMPT@path/scriptname and PROMPT spool off statements from the report output. The script contains both set heading off and set feedback off as part of the formatting. Posssible solutions? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: A funny thing happened today on the way to OraPerf.com ...
Gaja, Anjo - The question was: Is the data that users have uploaded to OraPerf now available to Veritas? It's a fair question that deserves more than a no need for any concern answer :-).. Perhaps it would be good if Anjo explained why and how this happened. You know I love you, Gaja, but why the Hell should I suddenly contact you about Anjo's pet? Mogens Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha wrote: Hi Paul, Long time no talk/see. Hope things are well with you. I personally don't think there is any need for concern here. OraPerf still remains as a free analyzer, just the way it did when it was Anjo's site. OraPerf is now provided as a service, as part of the Veritas Architect Network. The same old good stuff, with more resources supporting the site. If you have any further concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Gaja --- Paul Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and I ended up here: http://oraperf.veritas.com/index.html Hmm. so now Veritas has the statspack reports that I uploaded previously. I don't know what to think. Maybe they'll see the source code, and the sales staff will think - too far gone for any of our utils and leave me alone? Pd - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search = Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha Principal Technical Product Manager, Application Performance Management, Veritas Corporation E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (650)-527-3180 Website: http://www.veritas.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Desupport of RBO
I'm pretty sure that RBO is still there in 10g :-), but that it will not be enhanced, P2 and beyond issues won't be fixed, etc. But to be certain, I have asked Graham Wood. Mogens Cary Millsap wrote: I'm pretty sure that RBO is *gone* in 10g. If I understood correctly what I learned this week, there will be no more RBO, just one optimizer code path called the Oracle Query Optimizer. Also, if I understand correctly, the RULE hint will have exactly the same functionality as the HEY, DUDE hint: none. ...But I haven't tested it. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L i dont think they are totally removing the RBO from 10g. Ive seen conflicting reports. I think tom kyte hinted that it is gone, then I read somewhere else that its still going to be there. RBO is necessary if you use layered complex views. CBO often times doesnt hold up. Its a pretty bad design. But some people use it. I see it mostly with cross-platform apps. They tell you to always use RBO. if the RBO is totally gone they will need to totally re-architecture their products. So I dont know if Oracle will do this. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/10/07 Tue PM 02:04:31 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Desupport of RBO OK, dumb question. Does this mean the rule hint won't be possible? Application I support mostly uses CBO but there have been cases where we had to resort to RBO hint. 'course it'll be some time before we can consider v10... Kip |Hi Jared, |haven't seen it, too. But the fact |was spreaded over the newsgroups. |We still have some 3rd party apps that don't use |*any* feature above Oracle 7 (well, almost). Queries with |the RULE hint where it's not necessary. |But if we change a thing, support will be lost. |So we decided to rewrite the whole app. |Lucky me: enough work for the next years. |Greetings, |Guido | [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07.10.2003 01.34 Uhr |First time I've seen this note: 189702.1 |Jared |-- |Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net |-- |Author: Guido Konsolke | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com |San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services |- |To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message |to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in |the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L |(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may |also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Using ' in Update statement
Tom has a small staff to help him answer the questions. I find the comment from Raj to be less than fair and intelligent - or we all misunderstood what he meant (including me). Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know whether Tom does all of the asktom site on his own time, but I doubt it. His website doesn't do much to hurt sales of his book, so he also has a greater financial interest. Money is a good motivator. Tom is also a VP at Oracle, and does some pretty good PR for his employer via his web site. I imagine he is able to spend more time on the job answering questions than what would be practical for most people on this list. Many of us answer questions here for a variety of reasons. Here's my list of reasons: * it's an interesting topic * it's a topic that covers something I need to do * it's a topic that is not easily answered from the manuals, and the person posing the question could use some help. * it's a topic regarding something I have already learned to solve * I will learn something by participating The last one covers many more threads than I could possibly be involved in, so I try to limit it to those that will be of use to me somehow. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/10/2003 12:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Using ' in Update statement You guys are mean !! Tom Kyte would have given me 10 ways of writing the statement, would have traced every one of them under different versions and on different platforms, pointed out the number of logical reads, elapsed time, et all, and told me which one is better. Regards Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] disys.comTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Using ' in Update statement ity.com 10/10/2003 01:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L What he said. Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:Multiple recipients of Sent by: list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Using ' in Update statement 10/10/2003 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Here is the reason for that: this list would not be useful to me if it was devoted to answering beginner's questions. List would get flooded, I would stop reading as would many other people. It has already happened. This list is a very valuable resource to me and I would hate to lose it to the people asking things like how to set prompt in sqlplus. Usenet groups are the proper place for that. People can learn the basics by reading books and manuals and I don't have much sympathy for the people who don't want to read but post their questions to this list instead. I am trying to help when I think that help is needed, but I am also trying to discourage trivial questions asked for 10th time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for my actions, I'm just explaining them. This is my last reply in this thread because I don't intend to create a flame war on this list.
Re: FW: Oracle Performance Software from Veritas
It went very well. Gaja was flying, and it was good to see 15 members of the OakTable playing air guitar at the same time on stage. The girls were crazy with Gaja, and for good reasons. I have decided to make a musical next year, too. This massive mass of talent must not be wasted. Mogens PS: The whole thing was videoed, but I'm waiting for the stuff from the guy that did it. Rachel Carmichael wrote: and how WAS the musical? jgps, mp3 files please --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I just add that his real name is Gaja Vahatneyhatneyhatney. That is what I called him in BAARF. The Musical.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our good friend Gaja Vaidyanatha is now with Veritas, so this isn't really too surprising. :) Jared *David Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/06/2003 01:59 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:FW: Oracle Performance Software from Veritas Just got this email from Veritas...apparently they are getting into the database performance business for Oracle (and SQL Server too I think). Best regards, *David B. Wagoner* Database Administrator Arsenal Digital Solutions the most trusted source for STORAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES The contents of this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this message or any attachment by you is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone (919-466-6700), and please delete this message and all attachments from your system. Thank you. -Original Message-* From:* VERITAS Software [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2003 3:40 PM* To:* David Wagoner* Subject:* Trial Software for Oracle environment /# *Do something about it.* *_Download_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851* a free trial of VERITAS Indepth(tm) for Oracle.* Easier said than done. Usually it's difficult, if not impossible, to pinpoint the root cause of performance slowdowns. Countless hours are spent troubleshooting and analyzing applications with few results to show for it. *That's about to change. *With VERITAS Indepth for Oracle, you can identify specific application bottlenecks, resolve them faster, and maintain promised service levels to users. Download VERITAS Indepth for Oracle to see how you can: * *Monitor* the Oracle environment continuously and capture performance data for current, short term, and long-term performance analysis. * *Drill down and identify* a performance problem caused by a resource bottleneck or a poorly written SQL statement. * *Resolve performance problems* faster with detailed steps and displays statistics relevant to each step in the Oracle access path. *_Download Now_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851 Why we contacted you and how to opt-out: We know your time is valuable and that we (and others) are placing increasing demands on it. We contacted you about this news because we believe that the content of this message would be interesting and valuable to you. If you do not wish to receive future VERITAS notifications, please click on the link below, and send us the e-mail: _mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Please review our online _Privacy Policy_ http://www.veritas.com/privacypolicy/PolicyHome.jhtml and _Terms of Use_ http://www.veritas.com/privacypolicy/TermsOfUseHome.jhtml. © Copyright 2003 VERITAS Software. All rights reserved. VERITAS Software, 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States. We welcome your comments. Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author:
Re: SAN-Eva3000 experiences
Check out www.baarf.com regarding RAID levels. Check especially the Sane SAN paper by James Morle as to do's and dont's. EVA stuff is expensive, and some of our customers have had to spend much time and money on spare parts and consultants. Others have been happy with it. Mogens Jeroen van Sluisdam wrote: Hi, We're in the middle of buying a storage solution that will probably be an eva3000. Because I'm new with these kind of storages and I will get implementation advice from consultants I would like to have some background with experiences in implementing an oracle database on an eva3000. Any do's and don'ts ?? Any advice on raid-levels to use? Thanks in advance, Jeroen -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: FW: Oracle Performance Software from Veritas
May I just add that his real name is Gaja Vahatneyhatneyhatney. That is what I called him in BAARF. The Musical.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our good friend Gaja Vaidyanatha is now with Veritas, so this isn't really too surprising. :) Jared *David Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/06/2003 01:59 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:FW: Oracle Performance Software from Veritas Just got this email from Veritas...apparently they are getting into the database performance business for Oracle (and SQL Server too I think). Best regards, *David B. Wagoner* Database Administrator Arsenal Digital Solutions the most trusted source for STORAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES The contents of this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this message or any attachment by you is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone (919-466-6700), and please delete this message and all attachments from your system. Thank you. -Original Message-* From:* VERITAS Software [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2003 3:40 PM* To:* David Wagoner* Subject:* Trial Software for Oracle environment /# *Do something about it.* *_Download_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851* a free trial of VERITAS Indepth(tm) for Oracle.* Easier said than done. Usually it's difficult, if not impossible, to pinpoint the root cause of performance slowdowns. Countless hours are spent troubleshooting and analyzing applications with few results to show for it. *That's about to change. *With VERITAS Indepth for Oracle, you can identify specific application bottlenecks, resolve them faster, and maintain promised service levels to users. Download VERITAS Indepth for Oracle to see how you can: * *Monitor* the Oracle environment continuously and capture performance data for current, short term, and long-term performance analysis. * *Drill down and identify* a performance problem caused by a resource bottleneck or a poorly written SQL statement. * *Resolve performance problems* faster with detailed steps and displays statistics relevant to each step in the Oracle access path. *_Download Now_* http://www.veritas.com/offer?a_id=3851 Why we contacted you and how to opt-out: We know your time is valuable and that we (and others) are placing increasing demands on it. We contacted you about this news because we believe that the content of this message would be interesting and valuable to you. If you do not wish to receive future VERITAS notifications, please click on the link below, and send us the e-mail: _mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Please review our online _Privacy Policy_ http://www.veritas.com/privacypolicy/PolicyHome.jhtml and _Terms of Use_ http://www.veritas.com/privacypolicy/TermsOfUseHome.jhtml. © Copyright 2003 VERITAS Software. All rights reserved. VERITAS Software, 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States. We welcome your comments. Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Compress Option
Not at all, Chris - here you go. Chris Stephens wrote: Hey Mogens... Would you mind sending me a copy of that paper? Thanks either way!! chris -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Compress to impress? by Julian Dyke is a good presentation on this topic (see for instance http://www.ukoug.org/calendar/jan03/jan30ab.htm). I do have the article - 202 K with no compression, 147 K with compression :). Let me know if you're interested, and I'll email it directly to you. Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody has any experience with Oracle 9I compression option. I did some test on 9202 with a table of more 14 million rows. Table has total 7 indexes. Surprising both table and indexes are using more space after compression. Before compression space used is 13064MB and after compression 13184MB. In both the cases I did export from source table and stored in two different tablespaces. Any insight on that and any disadvantages of using that. Thanks DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the sole use of the individual to whom it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.vhttp://www.ukoug.org/calendar/jan03/jan30ab.htm Julian Dyke DataSegmentCompression.zip Description: Zip compressed data
Re: Storage Frust....
Sir Visser - The honour is mine. We shall BAARF around the world in the years to come. Mogens Piet de Visser wrote: Sir Norgaard, Group, Accepted, I think #43 is rather cool, as in: life, the universe and everyting++ I'll have to postpone review/critque/shredding of any text, statement or documents to the weekend. Too Busy Fighting non-baarf-ers... Will have meeting with commercial-of-the-shellf (COTS) hw vendor again tomorrow. (for the dutch-speaking: Cots, Baarf hint) Regards, PdV -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Fwd: RE: RAC for download -- re RAC Pricing and Partitioning
They are indeed, and their prices are (in the order you list them) in addition to the EE price: $20K, $20K, $10K, $10K, $10K. Mogens Hemant K Chitale wrote: oops, I forgot to mention Partitioning pricing. Partitioning is also listed seperately under Enterprise Edition options. This is 25% of the EE price. Thus, EE is US$40K per CPU. RAC is US$60K per CPU [40K + 20K]. Partitioning is US$50K per CPU [40K + 10K] and RAC with Partitioning would be US$70K per CPU ! Data Mining, OLAP, Advanced Security, Spatial and Label Security are also seperately priced options. Hemant Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:46:40 +0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Hemant K Chitale [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: RAC for download -- re RAC Pricing Check oraclestore.com. The default page just shows you the pricing for the DB EE, true. However, when you click on Database under Products in the left panel, you can see Oracle Enterprise Edition Options listed seperately from Oracle Database. RAC is under Enterprise Edition Options while EE is under Database and the RAC price is 50% of the EE price. Thus, an RAC price is 150% of an EE price. Hemant At 11:44 AM 24-09-03 -0800, you wrote: My dear friend, you're wrong. That practice has stopped with 8i. Partitioning option *is* an integral part of 9iEE without an additional check to sign. I got a verbal confirmation from my oracle sales rep and I'll try getting a written (email) one as well. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RAC for download I've seen the same kind of confusion with respect to the partitioning option, where people have been informed by their sales rep that partitioning option is part of EE. Well, yes, if you pay extra for it. Mogens Hemant K Chitale wrote: If the question is about price [referring to oraclestore], remember that RAC is an option and is generally at a 50% premium on the EE cost. However, Mladen is right in that RAC is on the same CDs as the Enterprise Edition. If your servers are cluster-ready, the OUI automatically includes RAC as an installation option, else, RAC does not apear in the Oracle product list when you run the Installer. Hemant At 06:54 AM 24-09-03 -0800, you wrote: RAC is a part of the EE version, for whichever OS you have. You will still need to purchase the hardware. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of quriyat Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RAC for download Hello all Where can i get RAC for download? I don't see one in OTN. Oracle store puts a high tag? Thanks -- -- No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com http://hkchital.tripod.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network
Re: 10g: SQL Plus
Indeed. It's SO cool to run the version 5 thing again. Will you be at the UKOUG conference in Birmingham in December by any chance? Robson, Peter wrote: Ah-a - NOW I see why you want my old version 5 manuals!! peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: 10g: SQL Plus Well, we have a good, working 5.25 floppy drive installed on our Oracle Museum PC (486, 25 MHz) now, and we're planning on installing WordPerfect 4.2, Lotus 1-2-3 (with the plug-in for Oracle, which Cary will bring over for the Database Forum next week), and other goodies. We have 5.1 running, and it's very, very fast to start up. Oh, and exports from 5.1 are fine to import in 9i. We haven't tested 10g yet. We're showcasing this wonder - and the rest of the Oracle Museum for which some of you have so generously helped - at the 10g launch days next week here in Denmark. Now, Mladen, would it be possible somehow to get hold of eg a zip of those 4.1 floppies? We have of course ordered another 486 PC, and we intend to give it all of 4 MB of RAM like the other one. The guy that sells all these things has a shop called Dinotech, and he still has about 9 new 5.25 drives from way back then. He'll sell for about 100 kroner each. We paid 200 kroner for the IBM DOS 5 in its original wrap. Mogens Mladen Gogala wrote: Will they have UFI in 10g? I'm sort of nostalgic. I cannot install my 3 360k 5.25 floppies with oracle 4.1 on any PC. How about oralink? Remarkably, it all used to run in 512k of RAM, which is less then the L3 cache size on any decent P4 system. How many hundreds of megabytes of RAM will I need for 10g? Don't tell me that RAM is cheap. EDO capable SDRAM for PCI/233 is NOT cheap. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Metelsky Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: 10g: SQL Plus Losing the pseudo-GUI version would be a a drag, because it's so easy to copy and paste text in it (not so easy in a Windows command prompt). Try right click - paste or click the upper left icon and choose paste To copy - choose mark then enter -its then in the clipboard Ive actually began to like sqlplus (opposed to sqlplusw). One good feature is you have your command history using the up arrow like regular shell bob -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bob Metelsky INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). * This e-mail message, and any files
Re: any else try trace analyzer?
And of course the Trace File Repository thing that Torben Holm from Miracle made. Not half bad either. And free. But nothing beats the Hotsos profiler in completeness and ability to interpret the complex situations in these 10046 traces correct. And the whole notion of not-accounted-for is cool. Torben has been CC'ed on this. Mogens K Gopalakrishnan wrote: Dan: Have you tried the itfprof at www.ubtools.com , which also gives lots of meaningful info from the 10046 trace. It is free, online, web based and what else you need ? = Have a nice day !! Best Regards, K Gopalakrishnan, Bangalore, INDIA. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: SQL AREA and LIBARARY CACHE size?
Was it not Dave Ensor that once concluded that x$ tables actually change
less than v$ tables?
Tanel Poder wrote:
I'd suggest, when possible, not to use any x$ views, but stich with plain
old documented ways. That way you'll probably avoid a lot of confusion,
especially when database versions might change..
Tanel.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 1:19 PM
Hi Prem,
I Think you are also doing the same mistake that I have done yesterday,
that was causing so much confusion.
I had earlier calculated the library cache and sql area size from X$ksmsp.
Please check the size of these component in x$ksmss.
WHat is difference in both x$ view is little bit confusing.
ORACLE try to calcluate SGASTAT from V$SGASTAT based on below mentioned
query:
===
select inst_id,
'',
ksmssnam,
ksmsslen
from x$ksmfs
where ksmsslen1
union all
select inst_id,
'shared pool',
ksmssnam,
sum(ksmsslen)
from x$ksmss
where ksmsslen1
group by inst_id, 'shared pool', ksmssnam
union all
select inst_id,
'large pool',
ksmssnam,
sum(ksmsslen)
from x$ksmls
where ksmsslen1
group by inst_id, 'large pool', ksmssnam
union all
select inst_id,
'java pool',
ksmssnam,
ksmsslen
from x$ksmjs
where ksmsslen1
=
You can see the library cache and sql area size from :
select inst_id,
'shared pool',
ksmssnam,
sum(ksmsslen)
from x$ksmss
where ksmsslen1
group by inst_id, 'shared pool', ksmssnam
===
However at same time when when you you calculate these component from the
x$ksmsp using below mentioned SQL:
get different result:
SQL l
select
ksmchcom contents,
sum(ksmchsiz) total
from
sys.x$ksmsp
where
inst_id = userenv('Instance')
group by ksmchcom
With Regards,
Manoj Kumar Jha
C-56 , Phase-2
NOIDA -201305, UP(INDIA)
Tata Consultancy Services
Ph No: (+91-120) 4461001 ext : 1037 (Off.)
Mobile No : 9810090974
--
--
A transcendentalist engaged in auspicious activities does not meet with
destruction either in this world or in the spiritual world; one who does
good,
is never overcome by evil.
--
--
Prem Khanna J
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
.co.jp cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: RE: SQL AREA
and LIBARARY CACHE size?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
city.com
09/26/03
01:39 PM
Please
respond to
ORACLE-L
Hi Manoj,
this is the statistics i got from one of my instance.
sql area 225 MB
library cache 112 MB
I was also confused as u were [ i didn't notice this so far ].
but reading the replies of Tanel Steve once again:
tanel
But what Steve meant (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that operations
on
sql areas are managed by library cache structures (library cache latch,
KGL
manager, lib cache hash table, etc), so sql area is dependent on library
cache, despite the fact they both have memory allocated directly from
shared pool.
/tanel
from this (and as per the docs) i understand that sql area is a subset of
library cache.
perhaps,what subset means is:
in terms of the control library cache has over sql area and not in terms
of memory allocated.
is my understanding correct, Tanel ?
steve
My best guess at the moment is that when new recreatable chunks are first
unpinned,
they go onto the transient list, and then when they have been reused, they
go back
onto the recurrent list.
/steve
..and reading this post by Steve,i feel there is something more(a lot)
that
we need to
know/understand to discuss about this.
Can Steve/Tanel/List explain me what is transient chunk recurrent chunk
?
Regards,
Jp.
P.S.Thanx Naveen.
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Prem Khanna J
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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solely for the addressed
Re: RAC for download
I've seen the same kind of confusion with respect to the partitioning option, where people have been informed by their sales rep that partitioning option is part of EE. Well, yes, if you pay extra for it. Mogens Hemant K Chitale wrote: If the question is about price [referring to oraclestore], remember that RAC is an option and is generally at a 50% premium on the EE cost. However, Mladen is right in that RAC is on the same CDs as the Enterprise Edition. If your servers are cluster-ready, the OUI automatically includes RAC as an installation option, else, RAC does not apear in the Oracle product list when you run the Installer. Hemant At 06:54 AM 24-09-03 -0800, you wrote: RAC is a part of the EE version, for whichever OS you have. You will still need to purchase the hardware. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of quriyat Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RAC for download Hello all Where can i get RAC for download? I don't see one in OTN. Oracle store puts a high tag? Thanks No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com http://hkchital.tripod.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g: SQL Plus
Well, we have a good, working 5.25 floppy drive installed on our Oracle Museum PC (486, 25 MHz) now, and we're planning on installing WordPerfect 4.2, Lotus 1-2-3 (with the plug-in for Oracle, which Cary will bring over for the Database Forum next week), and other goodies. We have 5.1 running, and it's very, very fast to start up. Oh, and exports from 5.1 are fine to import in 9i. We haven't tested 10g yet. We're showcasing this wonder - and the rest of the Oracle Museum for which some of you have so generously helped - at the 10g launch days next week here in Denmark. Now, Mladen, would it be possible somehow to get hold of eg a zip of those 4.1 floppies? We have of course ordered another 486 PC, and we intend to give it all of 4 MB of RAM like the other one. The guy that sells all these things has a shop called Dinotech, and he still has about 9 new 5.25 drives from way back then. He'll sell for about 100 kroner each. We paid 200 kroner for the IBM DOS 5 in its original wrap. Mogens Mladen Gogala wrote: Will they have UFI in 10g? I'm sort of nostalgic. I cannot install my 3 360k 5.25 floppies with oracle 4.1 on any PC. How about oralink? Remarkably, it all used to run in 512k of RAM, which is less then the L3 cache size on any decent P4 system. How many hundreds of megabytes of RAM will I need for 10g? Don't tell me that RAM is cheap. EDO capable SDRAM for PCI/233 is NOT cheap. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Metelsky Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: 10g: SQL Plus Losing the pseudo-GUI version would be a a drag, because it's so easy to copy and paste text in it (not so easy in a Windows command prompt). Try right click - paste or click the upper left icon and choose paste To copy - choose mark then enter -its then in the clipboard Ive actually began to like sqlplus (opposed to sqlplusw). One good feature is you have your command history using the up arrow like regular shell bob -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bob Metelsky INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Storage Frust....
Sir Visser, It would be my honour to enroll you in the BAARF party as party member # 43 if you like. Also, if you enroll, I'll send you the whole BAARF.zip file (33 K) which contains the story, the dialogues, and the song texts of the BAARF musical which we'll do at the Database Forum Gala Dinner on Friday night. But only if you promise me to give me harsh critique in return! And that goes for all you other members (or possible members) of the BAARF Party, too. Except, of course, the ones going to the Database Forum. They'll have to wait. Mogens Piet de Visser wrote: Group, After another run-in with Storage, need to Vent Some frustrations: BAARF Thank you. While I'm at it, let me add some other RAD ideas: Frustrated by vendors and manuals, we were about to turn BAARF into: battle against any Raw Filesystems (Yes, Yes, I know, a raw-dev is not a FS). But, not wanting to thread on other ppls turf, we thought CCCP: for Compulsory use of a Clustered Computing Platform, whose mission should be to elimiate all usage of Mulitple, In-duh-vidual, ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs and to enforce the use of single-installed Oracle software on Clustered file systems. And to stay in the same retro-atmosphere, we looked at: USSR: for Usage of Single System Rollout: to proclaim the use of sinle-installed ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs, partly inspired by OpenSSI.org More ideas anyone ? Don't start me on: the RAC party : Ridiculous Acronym Creators followed by the RAW devices: Ridiculous Acronym Worshippers or just plain: FAD : Funny Acronym Department ? No harm, no offence intended anywhere (except for some storage ppl, maybe) Getting Late... Tomorrow is 10G lanch-Europe, and all these ideas will be legacy. Regards, PdV -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ROW CACHE HIGH - Priority 1
I HAVE to ask this question: Is it possible for you to turn off RAC and thereby completely avoiding this issue? Yeah, that's kind of funny. Except it isn't, really. Invalidations of objects, drops, in general breaking of breakable parse locks - they will all need to be communicated to all the other instances. But this kind of activity is often forgotten in lieu of the normal buffer cache activity. Undskyld. But the best optimisation is not to do it :-). Mogens Mladen Gogala wrote: General answer: upgrade to 9.2.0.4 and hope that the bug has been fixed. Row cache locks are data dictionary locks. You can see the contents of row cache by inspecting v$rowcache. You may need to increase shared pool. Last but not least, how fast is your private network connection between the two nodes? 100mbit/sec is not nearly fast enough. You need at least a gigabit switch. Also check your SQL for hard parsing (see the executions and invalidations in v$sqlarea), ad-hoc DDL and that kind of stuff. And no, it's not my priority 1. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Muqthar Ahmed Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 3:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: ROW CACHE HIGH - Priority 1 Hi, I have Oracle 9.2.0.2.0 RAC (two nodes) on IBM AIX. Currently I am seeing very high number for ROW CACHE LOCK in statspack. Top 5 Timed Events ~~ % Total Event Waits Time (s) Ela Time --- row cache lock11,310 5,441 86.97 CPU time 522 8.34 global cache cr request32,513 71 1.14 global cache null to x 21,507 57 91 log file sync22,689 49 .78 - Get Spin Latch Name Requests Misses SleepsSleeps 1-4 -- -- --- --- library cache 7,094,208 31,499 1,480 30031/1456/12/0/0 shared pool 2,385,408 6,739 5276212/527/0/0/0 ges enqueue table freelist 1,492,275 1,903 1241780/122/1/0 /0 library cache pin 3,201,008 1,437 1301307/130/0/0/0 row cache objects1,400,498 1,020 56 964/56/0/0/0 row cache enqueue latch 1,292,843 715 19 696/19/0/0/0 It is holding row cache lock (v$session_wait), other sessions are in the queuedue to this, number of concurrent sessions will increase from 100 to 350 sessions on each node. In less than one minute everything will be cleared ( OLTP database) I have already opened a TAR with Priority 1. Do you have any suggestions. Thanks Muqthar Ahmed DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Muqthar Ahmed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author:
Re: guidance
Just talked to Jonathan Lewis from Helsinki. He went through some of the examples given in the latest issue of Oracle Magazine, and they were just plain wrong. I can't recall them in detail, but I think one of the questions were which parameter to set in order to let a user do large sorts. In 9i you shouldn't set sort_area_size, but that was the correct answer. And so on, and so forth. So the important advise is to do what you think they would like to hear :). Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List , I am planning to give my 9i performance tuning exam on the first . Any advice you all want to give me ? Pretty nervous about it. Sure would appreciate your guidance. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RAC for download
Mladen, you old respected warrior you're wrong, I'm sad to inform you. Another way to get to Tim's place is this: Go to http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/content.html Hit Price lists on the left hand side. Hit US Commercial Price List Undskyld. There have been no changes - none - to the pricing structure of this. Mogens Johnston, Tim wrote: Um... I'd definitely get that in writing... I just looked at the oracle store and it looks like partitioning is still an extra cost item... I also checked the price guide... http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/ePLext.PDF This also listed partitioning as an Enterprise Edition Option... Tim -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 3:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My dear friend, you're wrong. That practice has stopped with 8i. Partitioning option *is* an integral part of 9iEE without an additional check to sign. I got a verbal confirmation from my oracle sales rep and I'll try getting a written (email) one as well. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 2:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RAC for download I've seen the same kind of confusion with respect to the partitioning option, where people have been informed by their sales rep that partitioning option is part of EE. Well, yes, if you pay extra for it. Mogens Hemant K Chitale wrote: If the question is about price [referring to oraclestore], remember that RAC is an option and is generally at a 50% premium on the EE cost. However, Mladen is right in that RAC is on the same CDs as the Enterprise Edition. If your servers are cluster-ready, the OUI automatically includes RAC as an installation option, else, RAC does not apear in the Oracle product list when you run the Installer. Hemant At 06:54 AM 24-09-03 -0800, you wrote: RAC is a part of the EE version, for whichever OS you have. You will still need to purchase the hardware. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of quriyat Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 10:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RAC for download Hello all Where can i get RAC for download? I don't see one in OTN. Oracle store puts a high tag? Thanks -- -- No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. Hemant K Chitale Oracle 9i Database Administrator Certified Professional My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com http://hkchital.tripod.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
Re: Oracle Compress Option
Compress to impress? by Julian Dyke is a good presentation on this topic (see for instance http://www.ukoug.org/calendar/jan03/jan30ab.htm). I do have the article - 202 K with no compression, 147 K with compression :). Let me know if you're interested, and I'll email it directly to you. Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody has any experience with Oracle 9I compression option. I did some test on 9202 with a table of more 14 million rows. Table has total 7 indexes. Surprising both table and indexes are using more space after compression. Before compression space used is 13064MB and after compression 13184MB. In both the cases I did export from source table and stored in two different tablespaces. Any insight on that and any disadvantages of using that. Thanks DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the sole use of the individual to whom it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.vhttp://www.ukoug.org/calendar/jan03/jan30ab.htm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Storage Frust....
Oh man, that would be cool. He can choose any membership number above 44...for instance 10046 :-). PS Would you like to be a member yourself? Mogens MacGregor, Ian A. wrote: Garth Gibson, one of the original inventors of RAID (http://www.panasas.com/bio_gibson.html), and currently CTO of Panasas Inc, will be here [at SLAC] tomorrow to talk about his research into Object file systems. The talk will be Thursday (tomorrow) at 10:30 in the SCS conference room. I wonder if he's heard of BAARF, and what a coup if he would join. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sir Visser, It would be my honour to enroll you in the BAARF party as party member # 43 if you like. Also, if you enroll, I'll send you the whole BAARF.zip file (33 K) which contains the story, the dialogues, and the song texts of the BAARF musical which we'll do at the Database Forum Gala Dinner on Friday night. But only if you promise me to give me harsh critique in return! And that goes for all you other members (or possible members) of the BAARF Party, too. Except, of course, the ones going to the Database Forum. They'll have to wait. Mogens Piet de Visser wrote: Group, After another run-in with Storage, need to Vent Some frustrations: BAARF Thank you. While I'm at it, let me add some other RAD ideas: Frustrated by vendors and manuals, we were about to turn BAARF into: battle against any Raw Filesystems (Yes, Yes, I know, a raw-dev is not a FS). But, not wanting to thread on other ppls turf, we thought CCCP: for Compulsory use of a Clustered Computing Platform, whose mission should be to elimiate all usage of Mulitple, In-duh-vidual, ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs and to enforce the use of single-installed Oracle software on Clustered file systems. And to stay in the same retro-atmosphere, we looked at: USSR: for Usage of Single System Rollout: to proclaim the use of sinle-installed ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs, partly inspired by OpenSSI.org More ideas anyone ? Don't start me on: the RAC party : Ridiculous Acronym Creators followed by the RAW devices: Ridiculous Acronym Worshippers or just plain: FAD : Funny Acronym Department ? No harm, no offence intended anywhere (except for some storage ppl, maybe) Getting Late... Tomorrow is 10G lanch-Europe, and all these ideas will be legacy. Regards, PdV -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Storage Frust....
Well, Sir Tim - congratulations with your BAARF party membership # 44. The BAARF.zip file will be shipped in a second. Mogens Johnston, Tim wrote: Hey... I'm jealous!!! BAARF! BAARF! BAARF! Tim -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sir Visser, It would be my honour to enroll you in the BAARF party as party member # 43 if you like. Also, if you enroll, I'll send you the whole BAARF.zip file (33 K) which contains the story, the dialogues, and the song texts of the BAARF musical which we'll do at the Database Forum Gala Dinner on Friday night. But only if you promise me to give me harsh critique in return! And that goes for all you other members (or possible members) of the BAARF Party, too. Except, of course, the ones going to the Database Forum. They'll have to wait. Mogens Piet de Visser wrote: Group, After another run-in with Storage, need to Vent Some frustrations: BAARF Thank you. While I'm at it, let me add some other RAD ideas: Frustrated by vendors and manuals, we were about to turn BAARF into: battle against any Raw Filesystems (Yes, Yes, I know, a raw-dev is not a FS). But, not wanting to thread on other ppls turf, we thought CCCP: for Compulsory use of a Clustered Computing Platform, whose mission should be to elimiate all usage of Mulitple, In-duh-vidual, ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs and to enforce the use of single-installed Oracle software on Clustered file systems. And to stay in the same retro-atmosphere, we looked at: USSR: for Usage of Single System Rollout: to proclaim the use of sinle-installed ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs, partly inspired by OpenSSI.org More ideas anyone ? Don't start me on: the RAC party : Ridiculous Acronym Creators followed by the RAW devices: Ridiculous Acronym Worshippers or just plain: FAD : Funny Acronym Department ? No harm, no offence intended anywhere (except for some storage ppl, maybe) Getting Late... Tomorrow is 10G lanch-Europe, and all these ideas will be legacy. Regards, PdV -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Storage Frust....
Can't deny you such a good and simple wish. Welcome as BAARF Party member # 69. Mogens Joe Testa wrote: I figure I have to wait for a while to get BAARF party membership #69, bwahahahahahha i'll go back to programming php against mysql :) joe Mogens Nørgaard wrote: Well, Sir Tim - congratulations with your BAARF party membership # 44. The BAARF.zip file will be shipped in a second. Mogens Johnston, Tim wrote: Hey... I'm jealous!!! BAARF! BAARF! BAARF! Tim -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sir Visser, It would be my honour to enroll you in the BAARF party as party member # 43 if you like. Also, if you enroll, I'll send you the whole BAARF.zip file (33 K) which contains the story, the dialogues, and the song texts of the BAARF musical which we'll do at the Database Forum Gala Dinner on Friday night. But only if you promise me to give me harsh critique in return! And that goes for all you other members (or possible members) of the BAARF Party, too. Except, of course, the ones going to the Database Forum. They'll have to wait. Mogens Piet de Visser wrote: Group, After another run-in with Storage, need to Vent Some frustrations: BAARF Thank you. While I'm at it, let me add some other RAD ideas: Frustrated by vendors and manuals, we were about to turn BAARF into: battle against any Raw Filesystems (Yes, Yes, I know, a raw-dev is not a FS). But, not wanting to thread on other ppls turf, we thought CCCP: for Compulsory use of a Clustered Computing Platform, whose mission should be to elimiate all usage of Mulitple, In-duh-vidual, ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs and to enforce the use of single-installed Oracle software on Clustered file systems. And to stay in the same retro-atmosphere, we looked at: USSR: for Usage of Single System Rollout: to proclaim the use of sinle-installed ORACLE_BASE/HOMEs, partly inspired by OpenSSI.org More ideas anyone ? Don't start me on: the RAC party : Ridiculous Acronym Creators followed by the RAW devices: Ridiculous Acronym Worshippers or just plain: FAD : Funny Acronym Department ? No harm, no offence intended anywhere (except for some storage ppl, maybe) Getting Late... Tomorrow is 10G lanch-Europe, and all these ideas will be legacy. Regards, PdV -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: oraperf.com is now Veritas
Pity not the tree. Pity the twig. Thank God he didn't use too many colors. Wolfgang Breitling wrote: Download it for yourself from https://www.oracleworld2003.com/published/36849/36849_Kolk.ppt and see for yourself. But you better have a high speed connection. At 05:19 AM 9/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: was there much (in that paper) ?? Raj Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art ! -Original Message- From: Niall Litchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: oraperf.com is now Veritas All of it? how did you plough through all the detail? Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamadagni, Rajendra Sent: 18 September 2003 17:40 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: oraperf.com is now Veritas I noticed that when I read Anjo's paper at OOW . Raj -Original Message- From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: oraperf.com is now Veritas Sort of OT, but it is Oracle information related: Veritas has taken over http://oraperf.comhttp://oraperf.com I don't know if this is good, bad, or indifferent, but it's a change that I thought some might find interesting. Or not. Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.nethttp://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comhttp://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Wolfgang Breitling Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA Centrex Consulting Corporation http://www.centrexcc.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OFA and Shared Storage
I'm way beyond the simple RAID-F systems these days. I now want mirrored RAID-F systems! We could call them RAID-F1, and they're unique. You might waste parity disks in the first place ... but then you mirror them. Mladen Gogala wrote: Files are kept safe simply by RAID-5 mechanism. RAID-5 protects against any single disk failure (double disk failure can wipe it all out) and that is precisely why Mogens is such a zealous proponent of RAID-5 systems. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: OFA and Shared Storage I read some posts on here with shared storage such as SAN and Network Appliances its no longer necessary to multiplex datafiles on different disks, since the storage array handles that for you. How do you ensure that control files and redo log files are kept safely apart so that no one disk failure in the shared storage can take them all out? According to the OFA(well the abbreviated version I have in front of me) 4-5 disks is optimal for multiplexing. Does this no longer apply with shared storage? How do you ensure database available with shared storage? if your not multiplexing datafiles? I may have read some peoples posts incorrectly. Im just digging into backup and recovery. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: oraperf.com is now Veritas
Yeah, I was reading and reading for hours studying the fine print of his presentation :-). Niall Litchfield wrote: All of it? how did you plough through all the detail? Niall -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jamadagni, Rajendra *Sent:* 18 September 2003 17:40 *To:* Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject:* RE: oraperf.com is now Veritas I noticed that when I read Anjo's paper at OOW . Raj -Original Message- From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: oraperf.com is now Veritas Sort of OT, but it is Oracle information related: Veritas has taken over http://oraperf.com I don't know if this is good, bad, or indifferent, but it's a change that I thought some might find interesting. Or not. Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Anyone have a copy of DUL ??
Bernard of Oracle Holland made DUL (Direct UnLoader) several years ago. I took the very last internals class conducted by Oracle Support EMEA Vice President Andre Bakker (the only VP to conduct internals classes, I think. I also think he quit Support in disgust some time later :-) ), and we talked about a severe case we had in Denmark at that time. Basically, a company that made technical specs (including drawings) for some very advanced, high-speed transportation things, had not taken a backup of their system tablespace for 18 months. Then the system01.dbf file did its own thing, and their database didn't really feel good. Andre told me that he had a guy who was working on a tool that might be able to help us out. But it was in beta, etc., etc. So I went back to Denmark, called Bernhard, and we agreed that he would fix the bugs as we encountered them. I sent one of my guys - Christian Fabricius - online, and he was gone for three days, but got all the technical drawings out of the datafiles (Bernhard had to fix two or three things as we went along - a tribute to his coding skills). All that time, practially, Bernhard was online. Rock'n'roll. We were very proud. First time in history. Blah blah blah. When my manager went to a meeting with the customer a week later we were all expecting joy and happiness and perhaps some gratefullness from the customer. But no. He was furious. Why hadn't we told him that it was neccessary to take a backup of the system tablespace? Where in the documentation did it clearly state that that was required? It was all our fault. And we didn't even charge them more than normal hourly rates. I never tried the other suggestion Andre had (and which he had used many times himself): Create a dummy database that has the same datafiles as the problem database. Then take the file headers from the dummy database and patch on top of the real database. Then you can start up, since the information in the file headers match. Andre was one cool guy. He's enjoying early retirement, he claims. Mogens Rachel Carmichael wrote: Kevin Loney tells the story of making a call to the data center from the CIO's office and asking them to make a copy of the backup tapes and leave them at reception. since the call came from the CIO's office, they made the copy --- Pete Finnigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter Glad to hear that there are controls in Oracle for use of DUL, I was thinking of a case where i heard that one guy rang up the backup storage company for a large company and requested a set of backup tapes be left at reception at the company and he just walked in off the street and took them. Mitnik tells similar stories in his book. Thanks for the internal Oracle insight Peter, kind regards Pete In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Gram [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Pete I have used Dul many times at customer sites when I was employed by Oracle Denmark. Every time the customer management had to verify by phone and fax that they understood the full impact of using Dul. Oracle have disclaimer that explains the problems with missing transaction consistency of the data saved by Dul and the security issues. The customer has to sign and fax the disclaimer back to Oracle before we came on site .-) After I left Oracle several people ask me if would write a Dul and I declined. I'm of the opinion that Dul should stay behind the Oracle firewall. /peter Pete Finnigan wrote: Hi Mark I agree with you Mark, even if its supplied by Oracle technicians - it is as you say possible to by-pass security completely. Does anyone in Oracle check that the field support personnel dispatched to a site ( in urgency ) are dumping data for the owner of it? - I covered the issue of DUL with regards to security is the SANS Oracle security step-by-step book - action 6.5.1 kind regards Pete In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes One problem I see with giving this away free is that you will be supplying a tool that allows you to extract data from the database, bypassing all inbuilt security. A BIG no no. I suppose that also applies to this kind of tool even under a paid license structure. -- Pete Finnigan email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.petefinnigan.com - Oracle security audit specialists Book:Oracle security step-by-step Guide - see http://store.sans.org for details. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Pete Finnigan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Cary's new book shipping now?
Lies, all lies. I've heard myself snoring. Pete Sharman wrote: I can guarantee that won't happen, since Cary's singing is pretty much akin to Mogens's snoring! :) Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA -Original Message- Mladen Gogala Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 4:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Will there be an MP3 version, with Cary singing? -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Is Cary's new book shipping now? the big question is when will the .pdf be available for download on kazaa? (Im kidding and Im buying a copy). From: Jesse, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/16 Tue PM 01:44:35 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is Cary's new book shipping now? Preordered: Qty 1 :) Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Raj, The book will be in the O'Reilly warehouses tomorrow (9/17), presumably outbound to stores on the same or next day. I'd expect preorders to arrive at customers' homes on or near this weekend. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RAC Parallel Query Issues
I'm not sure I understand. Is this a query that should access a 470 record table and which uses Parallel Query in a RAC environment? And when it works, it executes in less than a second? If yes, have you tested this query without Parallel Query? If no, where did I misunderstand you? Best regards, Mogens Ravi Kulkarni wrote: We are on 2-Node Rac 9204/Solaris8. We are having intermittent issues with parallel queries (The table has only 470 records, executes 1sec otherwise): SQL / select count(*)from eod * ERROR at line 1: ORA-12805: parallel query server died unexpectedly Trace File has: kxfp_send_callback Send timed out to slave 65535 inst 1 (qref 0x63f85fd0) *** 2003-09-15 18:33:25.034 *** SESSION ID:(63.533) 2003-09-15 18:33:25.034 kxfp_send_callback Send timed out to slave 65535 inst 1 (qref 0x63fc2004) kxfplsig Could not signal error 10388 in server P032 with serial 371201 dp 0x61a822d0, q 0x60f286b0, pr 0x5f457168, cqr 0x63f97584, err 10387 Interrupt Info top=1 size=8 top err=-2147473260 Query May be hanging.Check V$PX_SESSION OPIRIP: Uncaught error 12800. Error stack: ORA-12800: system appears too busy for parallel query execution ORA-10387: parallel query server interrupt (normal) v$px_session : has number of Slave Processes hanging. Truss for process on Instance 1: door_return(0x, 0, 0x, 0) (sleeping...) lwp_cond_wait(0xFE7F5548, 0xFE7F5558, 0xFE7EEDB0) (sleeping...) lwp_cond_wait(0xFE7F5548, 0xFE7F5558, 0xFE7EEDB0) Err#62 ETIME read(0, 0xFE6C35E4, 1024) (sleeping...) signotifywait() (sleeping...) door_return(0x, 0, 0x, 0) (sleeping...) lwp_cond_wait(0xFE7F5548, 0xFE7F5558, 0xFE7EEDB0) (sleeping...) Instance 2: poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) (sleeping...) poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) = 0 poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 0) = 0 poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) (sleeping...) poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) = 0 poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 0) = 0 poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) (sleeping...) poll(0x02FF15CC, 2, 2500) = 0 Any inputs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ravi. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ora 1575?
I'm very sorry. By some error I never got this message sent. So here it is, over a month too late. Fantastic... Mogens == Ah, good to be back online with Tim Gorman on the old and wonderful 1575. 1575 was introduced in 7.1. Not as an error, because the code that creates this error has been around for many years before that. 1575 was introduced to signal an unpleasant wait situation for the ST lock/enqueue - a warning to the DBA. Used extents (in UET$) and free extents (in FET$) are managed together, meaning that 1) if you want to delete a record in UET$ and insert it in FET$ (that means an extent has been dropped/freed), 2) delete a record in FET$ and insert it in UET$ (extent has been allocated) or 3) delete a bunch of records in FET$ and inserting only one with the summary information in the same FET$ (coalescing extents) - you have to make sure that nobody else is messing with UET$/FET$ at the same time. So Oracle takes out the massive ST enqueue on both UET$ and FET$ while it performs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above (and probably some other things I don't recall). If somebody else tries to get the ST enqueue while it's still being held by another session, you'll get the 1575 signalled in the alert log - in order to simply notify you that there has been queueing on the ST lock. As long as you have DMTs you risk getting 1575. It might be possible to get it with LMTs, too, but I haven't seen it personally (which is information without value - there are so many things I haven't seen yet, like lizards playing chess or Cary taking a quick shower). Temporary tablespaces (in 7.3?) replaced the ST enqueue with a latch per temp tablespace (this helped a lot in OPS environments). Management manouvres of various kind, like having standard sizes of extents, not coalescing ever (hence the 7.1 change whereby a tablespace with pctincrease=0 didn't get coalesced), etc. also helped. But it was LMTs that finally solved it. I thought. Until this thread. So now I'm curious as to what is happening here. Mogens Tim Gorman wrote: Tanel hit the nail on the head. In the past, ORA-01575 was usually associated with temporary tablespaces that were DMT and not tablespace type TEMPORARY (which started in Oracle7.3). First and foremost, please make sure you are using a TEMPORARY tablespace which is locally-managed and uses TEMPFILEs... It might be interesting to monitor V$LOCK for TYPE = 'ST' to see what sessions are holding this enqueue. If the activity is too transient, perhaps querying V$SESSION_EVENT where EVENT = 'enqueue' might indirectly imply which sessions have waited on an enqueue (not necessarily ST, thought!) sometime in the past... on 8/13/03 7:04 AM, Tanel Poder at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! You can always schedule alter tablespace coalesce's during low usage time. But you should check whether you have adjacent free extents in your tablespaces at all? If you're not doing lot's of dropping or truncating objects, then you shouldn't have. Thus no need for coalesce either. Just check that all of your sort segments go to the temp tablespace (which should be in temporary mode, preferrably LMT as well). Tanel. thanks for the info. We do have a number of DMTS in the database. Three of them have pct_increase of 50%, the rest - 0. Should I consider changing the pct_increase to 0 in all tablespaces in order to get rid of this ora 1575? Wouldn't I want to have an automatic coalesce process for the DMTS though? thank you Gene --- Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't seen this error since Oracle7... If the message is hitting the alert.log, then chances are good it is coming from SMON. SMON is attempting to acquire the ST (a.k.a. Space transaction) enqueue in preparation for coalescing free space in some tablespaces. However, if it is unable to acquire ST after a couple seconds, it times out and issues ORA-01575 to the alert.log. So, based on experiences from 6-7 years ago: * do you have a lot of dictionary-managed tablespaces? * do these DMT's have default PCTINCREASE non-zero, thus attacting SMON to do coalescing? If so, I'd suggest going to locally-managed tablespaces if at all possible... on 8/12/03 12:44 PM, Gurelei at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all: I'm seeing the ora-01575 error in the alert logfile. The article on the metalink refers to the parameter which I think is obsolete in the ORacle version we are running (8.1.7). What does this error refer to? Any thoughts? references? thanks gene __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
Re: db_file_multiblock_read_count
Connor rules. Tim Gorman wrote: I've performed nm -o oracle and strings -a oracle on the Oracle executable, searching for the phrase sstiomax to no avail. To me, that implies that SSTIOMAX is not a variable in the C program that is Oracle. Instead, by C programmer conventions, any name expressed in all upper-case would most likely be a #define constant and not a variable, which is impossible to display without source code or the ability to read object code. Without source code access, of course, this is just a guess, as conventions can be ignored. You can likely deduce SSTIOMAX by setting DBFMBRC to some insanely high value then performing a FULL table scan under SQL trace level-8 as specified in http://www.oracledba.co.uk/tips/mbrc.htm;. Of course, this web page was found by searching Google using the search phrase sstiomax... on 9/13/03 1:04 PM, Ravi Kulkarni at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can we find the value of SSTIOMAX ?(What is it for 9i ?) Thanks, Ravi. --- Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a MetaLink article #131530.1 on the constant SSTIOMAX which may provide some interesting reading on this topic surround max I/O size and the setting of DBFMRC. The article is over 2 years old -- not sure if it pertains to 9i or above... Wolfgang, please let us know how those 8-byte database blocks work for you, OK? on 9/11/03 8:44 PM, Wolfgang Breitling at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: db_block_size=8, db_file_multiblock_read_count = 32 That is a Peoplesoft ERP system, a hybrid of oltp and dss with heavy reporting activity at month end. The dfmrc value was established through trial and 10053 trace analysis. Some report sql still require use_hash hints in order to avoid silly NL joins. Was looking forward to upgrading to Oracle 9 with system statistics so that I could jack up dfmrc to the max without nasty side-effect for the oltp part, but I'm essentially out of that account now. As for finding the max operating system I/O size on windows (or any other), just set dfmrc to some insanely high number and let Oracle figure out what the OS wil bear. At 01:59 PM 9/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hello list, seeking your personal opinions and experiences about db_file_multiblock_read_count. What do you all set your db_block_size and db_file_multiblock_read_count to? How did you all come to decide that those values would suit your systems ? Any windoze user here who can tell me how can one find out the max operating system I/O size (on windows) in order to set db_file_multiblock_read_count ? Wolfgang Breitling Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA Centrex Consulting Corporation http://www.centrexcc.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Hesin e-postur er kannaður fyri virus av Føroya Tele. This e-mail was virus scanned by Faroese Telecom. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ora 1575?
Well, no I haven't seen him actually take a shower, but one must hope that the sound of running water for 42 minutes followed by silence for another 21 minutes must mean that water has run down Cary and not just down the drain. And although I haven't seen him take the shower, we're many OakTable members who have seen him go into the bathroom and come out of bathroom - because we were all waiting for him to finish so the other 15 people could get their 42 seconds showers that they were entitled to. Cary is, indeed, a clean guy. Mogens Rachel Carmichael wrote: information without value - there are so many things I haven't seen yet, like lizards playing chess or Cary taking a quick shower). oh the questions and thoughts this brings to mind! as in: has Mogens SEEN Cary taking a shower? or does he infer that Cary takes long showers by the amount of time Cary is absent from a room and the degree of wetness of Cary's hair when he returns? How quick is a quick shower? and, Cary is so definitely the epitome of the cute American boy next door -- too bad that I've met his wife and like her, the thoughts of him taking a shower could be interesting! --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm very sorry. By some error I never got this message sent. So here it is, over a month too late. Fantastic... Mogens == Ah, good to be back online with Tim Gorman on the old and wonderful 1575. 1575 was introduced in 7.1. Not as an error, because the code that creates this error has been around for many years before that. 1575 was introduced to signal an unpleasant wait situation for the ST lock/enqueue - a warning to the DBA. Used extents (in UET$) and free extents (in FET$) are managed together, meaning that 1) if you want to delete a record in UET$ and insert it in FET$ (that means an extent has been dropped/freed), 2) delete a record in FET$ and insert it in UET$ (extent has been allocated) or 3) delete a bunch of records in FET$ and inserting only one with the summary information in the same FET$ (coalescing extents) - you have to make sure that nobody else is messing with UET$/FET$ at the same time. So Oracle takes out the massive ST enqueue on both UET$ and FET$ while it performs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above (and probably some other things I don't recall). If somebody else tries to get the ST enqueue while it's still being held by another session, you'll get the 1575 signalled in the alert log - in order to simply notify you that there has been queueing on the ST lock. As long as you have DMTs you risk getting 1575. It might be possible to get it with LMTs, too, but I haven't seen it personally (which is information without value - there are so many things I haven't seen yet, like lizards playing chess or Cary taking a quick shower). Temporary tablespaces (in 7.3?) replaced the ST enqueue with a latch per temp tablespace (this helped a lot in OPS environments). Management manouvres of various kind, like having standard sizes of extents, not coalescing ever (hence the 7.1 change whereby a tablespace with pctincrease=0 didn't get coalesced), etc. also helped. But it was LMTs that finally solved it. I thought. Until this thread. So now I'm curious as to what is happening here. Mogens __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: what is BAARF?
Well, we've begun to put good stuff about RAID-F on www.BAARF.com, including the good writing by Art Kagel mentioned below. One of the fantastic gems that just arrived today from a good source is the one from Sun where they describe a very unique way of implementing RAID-10 that actually makes it slower than RAID-5. Yes, sir. They succeed where noone has succeeded before ;-). There's of course also the original RAID paper plus Cary's Is RAID-5 really a bargain? plus Sane SAN. We're probably missing a lot of good writings on this topic on the list - if you know of a good article or pointer, just let us know. Mogens Bob Lofstrand wrote: It is good to see Oracle and Informix DBAs agree on something once in a while. Art Kagel and many others from the Informix list have been fighting the good fight for a long time. http://www.smooth1.demon.co.uk/ifaq06.htm#6.58 I sent this baarf link to a former co-worker still in the Informix world. I got this response: Bob, That is impeccable timing. I was in Dallas last week with Victor and James looking at SAN systems from Hitachi and IBM. Both vendors were heavily pushing RAID-5 and treated me like a leper when I objected. Troy. My question is what to do from a practical point of view. How have others approached convincing management that RAID 5 is the devil. I guess what I want is a list of the most effective questions and facts that will make these vendors look like idiots when they refuse to give up on RAID 5. -Original Message- From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: what is BAARF? See www.baarf.com. Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Denver, Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it here all the time. Any articles on it? Im assuming its some kind of storage system right? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. Hesin e-postur er kannaður fyri virus av Føroya Tele. This e-mail was virus scanned by Faroese Telecom. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing:
Re: 10g
Correct. You can follow his announcement on www.Oracle.com at 2PM PDT. Babette Turner-Underwood wrote: Yes, but then all the listers who have been DYING to fill us in, will be allowed to finally spill their guts, no? - Babette -Original Message- Mogens Norgaard Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, Larry will announce it tomorrow. The software will not be available to customers for a while, though. Boivin, Patrice J wrote: The release date and the shipping dates may be different, not sure. They also may not have it ready for all platforms at the same time, see OCS Release 2, there still is no version for Windows. Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 3:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I keep reading all the marketing material on 10g, is Tuesday the release date? (Larry Ellison Enabling the Grid -- The Power of 10 The Launch of Oracle's Next Version Database keynote) Thanks in advance, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g
It's also called Graham in a Box internally in Development because Graham Wood put some effort into it. It's Statspack on steroids plus more, but it will of course still be as useless as Statspack wrt system-wide measurement data. It does contain the SQL stuff if you ask it to, and that's useful. It will even - in EM - highlight if an execution plan hash value changed. The execution plan hash value was put into Statspack by Graham in 9i, but now it gets highlighted if it changed. Mogens Tanel Poder wrote: Oracle's Kumar likens ADDM to 'a genie in your database-if you have a performance problem, you just ask the database what the problem is and it automatically analyzes the complete database system and comes up with recommendations.' If this works like Oracle Expert, then it's recommendations are worthless. Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g
ADDM (pronouned Adam) is - as I wrote a minute ago - Statspack++ - for what it's worth. Of course you can't tell a damned thing about performance problems from system-data. Unless there's only one and the same user on the system in the observation internval. Active Session History (ASH), however, is a different story. Here they collect (down to every second) data about each session and what it spent its time doing. That's 10046 stuff being sampled in memory structures and stored in the repository in the SYSAUX tablespace. Very cool. Gaja will talk about it at our Database Forum - probably the day after he stars in BAARF. The Musical. Jesse, Rich wrote: Sweet! Oracle's Kumar likens ADDM to 'a genie in your database-if you have a performance problem, you just ask the database what the problem is and it automatically analyzes the complete database system and comes up with recommendations.' sarcasmNo more SQL tuning! No more STATSPACK! No more OEM/DBMS jobs! Wait a minute...no more DBA? Uh-oh./sarcasm I'm sorry Dave. I can't close the pod bay instance. Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: 10g Correct. You can follow his announcement on www.Oracle.com at 2PM PDT. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: offshoring article
Makes sense. Peter Barnett wrote: Let's see if I have this straight, the US is nearly a half trillion dollars in debt. It is going to add at least another 87 billion to that number. It has just reduced taxes on its citizens. And, now it is good for the country to send its best paying jobs overseas. Looks to me like the US is determined to become a third world country at warp speed. Can't blame anyone overseas since the decisions are made in the US. --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They're hired by the people who came out of those very same universities. Most often McKinsey et al are hired to OK decisions that management have a hard time OK'ing themselves for various reasons. To be fair, of all the consulting companies that make money out of telling people that water runs downhill, McKinsey are among the very best. Ryan wrote: Here is a link to an article from McKinsey Co. My favorite positive is that offshoring IT jobs frees Americans up to do other jobs. Now they dont say 'what' jobs, but we are free to do them. If you dont know these are the guys who payed Chelsea Clinton 100k/year right out of college with no experience. If you explore their website they are more interested in where you went to school than anything else(notice how university comes before experience). who hires these guys? http://www.mckinsey.com/knowledge/mgi/offshore/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Pete Barnett Lead Database Administrator The Regence Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g
I attended a week of Beta Select training at HQ. But yeah, the docs are there along with the Beta software. That's how the guys learn it. As a director I didn't read anything - I just took at plane to California ;-). Hey, another cool feature is v$garbage_bin or whatever it's called, so you can undo stuff like a drop table. Not to mention the patch management stuff, which could be rather cool. Mogens Ryan wrote: did oracle provide you with documentation on these tools or just the 10g database and you had to find it all yourself? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:39 PM ADDM (pronouned Adam) is - as I wrote a minute ago - Statspack++ - for what it's worth. Of course you can't tell a damned thing about performance problems from system-data. Unless there's only one and the same user on the system in the observation internval. Active Session History (ASH), however, is a different story. Here they collect (down to every second) data about each session and what it spent its time doing. That's 10046 stuff being sampled in memory structures and stored in the repository in the SYSAUX tablespace. Very cool. Gaja will talk about it at our Database Forum - probably the day after he stars in BAARF. The Musical. Jesse, Rich wrote: Sweet! Oracle's Kumar likens ADDM to 'a genie in your database-if you have a performance problem, you just ask the database what the problem is and it automatically analyzes the complete database system and comes up with recommendations.' sarcasmNo more SQL tuning! No more STATSPACK! No more OEM/DBMS jobs! Wait a minute...no more DBA? Uh-oh./sarcasm I'm sorry Dave. I can't close the pod bay instance. Rich Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: 10g Correct. You can follow his announcement on www.Oracle.com at 2PM PDT. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 10g
Yes, Larry will announce it tomorrow. The software will not be available to customers for a while, though. Boivin, Patrice J wrote: The release date and the shipping dates may be different, not sure. They also may not have it ready for all platforms at the same time, see OCS Release 2, there still is no version for Windows. Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 3:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I keep reading all the marketing material on 10g, is Tuesday the release date? (Larry Ellison Enabling the Grid -- The Power of 10 The Launch of Oracle's Next Version Database keynote) Thanks in advance, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: DB2 has a foot in the door
Yeah, it's rather cool to read. I think it was Connor who originally forwarded them to the OakTable list. But we ran into one example where it made sense: A customer needed to move an application from Sybase to either Oracle og SQL Server. Well, it was way easier to move the Transact SQL (or whatever their PL/SQL-like thing is called) from Sybase to SQL Server because of their common heritage. Moving it to Oracle would have meant a good deal of re-coding. DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Mogens wrote from IBM whitepapers: If you want to have a portable application, you should probably choose one of the category II databases . . . I nearly fell off my chair laughing. There are some political leaders that could use a marketing person with that finesse. Thanks for brightening a Monday morning. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 12:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Cost is the easy one. They run comparable to Microsoft or thereabout. They have various options I haven't looked at yet, that might make them more expensive than that. The DB2 on mainframes and the DB2 on Unix, for instance, were written by different teams. Which might explain why they didn't port the time-based instrumentation from the mainframe environment to the Unix port. So yeah, you probably can't just take code and move it. They have a pretty good porting tool between Oracle and DB2, though. We thought that was rather neat when we ran it against one of our customer's database definitions. The PL/SQL conversion came out alright, too, although there of course are things they can't do and vice versa. Broadly speaking, I think you can divide the databases of the world into three categories: 1. Oracle, with very good locking strategies, very good read consistency model, very good performance measurement instrumentation (time-based). 2. Other relational databases such as DB2, Sybase, SQL Server, Informix, etc. where they all share the same (to us Oracle-techies) strange locking philosophy, the same consistency model where you have to code more, and no wait-interface. 3. The rest. re 2: The locking philosophy difference means that you can still have readers block writers and writers block readers, unless you specifically handle how to do it on the transactional level. This explains why cloning databases for reporting purposes is so popular with other databases compared to the Oracle world :). IBM has pointed out in various whitepapers something which to us doesn't make sense, but which might make sense to others: If you want to have a portable application, you should probably choose one of the category II databases, since they're all pretty much alike in their behaviour on the important aspects of locking and read consistency. If you have to go to or from Oracle to or from another database, you'd have to change code a good deal or live with non-optimal conditions after the migration. Mogens Tom Ryan wrote: have you used DB2? How does it compare to Oracle? Ive seen tom kyte write that each platform that DB2 runs on is in essence a different database and you cant take code from one platform and move it to another. are the features comparable? what about cost? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 8:54 AM VERY interesting. They refused to do site licensing at a 2 installation here. Thank you for this tip. Rachel Carmichael wrote: Oracle does site licensing... but only if you are a very very large corporation. Citibank (when I worked there) had one. The company I work for now has one. So I don't ask do we have a license when I want to install a new version of Oracle, even if it is a new platform One of the few things that is easier working in a rigid corporate environment --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's one thing that IBM can do, which Microsoft and Oracle can't offer: They do site licenses as well as cpu and user licensing. That just gives them an incredible advantage to management and others who can stop thinking about whether they should buy another server, move stuff from one server to the other, etc. I can't believe Oracle and Microsoft are not doing it (I think I can guess, but it's still not good). Mladen Gogala wrote: I believe that the answer to Stephane's question is obvious: Oracle 10g will cost 10 grands/ CPU. That's where the letter g is coming from. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Stephane We've been very excited about Oracle Standard Edition. Helped stave off the interest in MS SQL. Given the budget pressures at many
Re: Urgent INFO needed. - OFF TOPIC
Yeah, well, when all the American IT companies conquered (spelling?) the world and ran the Danish HW-vendors in the ground, as well as a lot of small and medium sized SW-shops, I think - but I could be awfully wrong here :-) - most Americans thought that was because we were too expensive, too lazy, too lesbian, too something, and that we could just go out and compete, or find some new cheese. Otherwise, I think they called us a bunch of bad losers. I think - but, again, I'm probably very wrong here - the same happened with our esteemed weapons industry. Who can ever forget the wonderful Madsen machinegun, for instance? I know for a fact it has happened a lot in agriculture... So yes, jobs are moved around, and it's not funny anymore when it's our jobs. But there's only one thing to do about it: Go out and find some new cheese. It's hopefully past those days where the Danish Government would forbid the Danish Military to buy American weapons, or we would have import controls on American software and hardware in order to stimulate domestic production of some Unix compute like the excellent NUMA architecture of DDE... Mogens Longballs Nogood VIVEK_SHARMA wrote: Well-Spoken Indeed -Original Message- Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 10:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, in your experience...and maybe most of the other lister's experience...majority of the time its true... That's because you people are the best DBAs I've seen... Your experiences...10...15 years...some of you have a little over 3 years and are already experts... Of course a lot of other people are less skilled than you are... But I am not sure if you represent the rest of the US DBAs...or if I represent the rest of the 3rd world DBAs... Again, as I have said...some peopler are just better than others...that's my opinion...obviously, yours is a lot different than mine... I don't know you, Joe, well enough to judge you. So I won't call you names. Joe Testa wrote: Fact of the matter is the majority of the time its true, like it or not. Those of you who know me, know I DON'T do politically correct, I call a spade a spade. Its true at the officer level in a company(and I'm there in the company I'm in now), its all about dollars and cents, especially today. Thats why you see it as much as you do. My example: I worked for an online training company, they were paying me $25/hr to do online tutoring or web based oracle DBA classes., I was with them from the beginning just like alot of other tutors from around th world. We were told in early/mid 2002, we've decided to outsource all tutoring to India, so if you're interested in teaching your replacements, we'll keep you on board for a little extra time. The end was near and someone had asked me how long I'd been doing it, how long I was a DBA and how long did I plan on doing it, i gave them the truthful answer, about 4 yrs, 10 years as a DBA and not much longer since it was all being outsourced to India, got my a$$ fired from the job before my time was up. Basically the concept was: we can go to India and pay $2.50, 10% of what we pay you and we really dont care about the quality because they will pick up their English language from previous answers you and others have submitted to students throughout the years.. You tell me I shouldn't have an attitude, you're as full of garbage as them. Joe PS: for those who want to know the company, email me direct, i'll be glad to share. Maria Aurora de la Vega wrote: Its quite unfair for DBAs to blame their job loss/fear of job loss to DBAs in India or some other countries with cheaper labor. And to say that you get what you pay for or insinuating that cheaper labor means less quality...is definitely out of line... some people are just better than others...that's it...it has nothing to do with geography or nationality... some of the best DBAs...or IT professionals in general...are in fact indians... Point is its not the indians' fault jobs just come knocking at their doors... we all want better jobs and better pay...if it comes to me i'll grab it no doubt... would I think about other DBAs who were taken off to accomodate me? of course not. I have nothing to do with their decision to outsource...and even if I stress myself worrying about it...can I do anything about it? no...so, what do I do...I'd take advantage of course... I've come to believe no one is indispensable...even if you've served 5, 10, 15 years in a company...there's always a reason to take you out no matter how good you are... And sometimes companies think...do I really need someone that good and costs a lot more? or can we do with someone quite average but can get the job done and costs a lot less? Tony Johnson wrote: All I know about it is that for every new job in India one more DBA is out of work here in the United States. -Original Message- *From:* Ora DBA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday,
Re: test
No, no, no, no. You just live on the wrong side of the world, these days. TestG is old, gone, dead. It's Test/g/ now. Has been for a couple of weeks. Notice the italics. Don't make users more ten'se than neccessary. The first one who sees a production version of Tense/g /will forever be known as the g-spotter. Connor McDonald wrote: I would not bother to use Test, because TestG is coming out very shortly. A lot of the Test programs have not been Test'd on version TestG which tends to make users a little testy :-) --- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also need to test. Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Search the web by email! mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] adding your search to the subject line like this: search summer vacations test -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk web: http://www.oaktable.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: No more Oracle development here
It's not easy, because IBM has about 42 versions of DB2, but in general their SE/EE prices are similar to SQL Server, ie a third and half of Oracle's. It's a good point about support costs. Microsoft runs at 25%, Oracle at 22%. Comparing is hard, of course, since you can often get Server-licenses (not cpu or named user, but server) on SQL Server, which might make many installations way cheaper. IBM often bundle in Support for free these days. One difference I've noticed is that Microsoft will bundle in OLAP stuff in the EE version, while it's a 50% extra price option with Oracle. It depends. Mogens Ryan wrote: how do oracle costs compare to DB2? Anyone use that? I dont have any experience in pricing. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 10:24 AM Ryan Comparing the costs are very difficult. You must carefully verify you have included all the costs, such as support. Oracle has Standard Edition and Enterprise Edition. Microsoft has Standard Edition and Enterprise Edition. From my analysis, they are not comparable (SE to SE or EE to EE). If you are considering MS SQL, you have probably decided you don't need the features of Oracle EE. If you feel you don't need the features in Microsoft EE you should probably consider MySQL. Therefore I feel that for most sites the comparison comes down to Oracle SE vs. MS SQL EE. If you factor in all the support costs, I found that Oracle SE was actually a little cheaper than MS SQL EE. I did that comparison over a year ago, so the prices may be slightly different today. And in your situation one or both vendors may be willing to reduce their price. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 6:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L what is the difference in cost between sql server and oracle? oracle claims its similiar due to sql server needing more hard ware. now that is probably bull in low end system, but is it accurate in high end systems? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 6:24 PM My company it's moving all the development efforts to SQL Server because the customers don't want to pay Oracle licenses anymore.. Gabriel __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gabriel Aragon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
Re: Oracle World - Listers get together (proposed Tuesday Sep 9)
Wish I could be there, but I can't. It will be Paris for me this year, and of course an award-winner lunch with the editor of Oracle Magazine and others :-). I wish I could be there with you guys, though. Cary - could you have a Margarita for me, please? Double, lots of salt? Mogens Steve McClure wrote: I will try to be there as well. Possibly two of us, Alec Macdonell who lurks about this list as well. Steve McClure -Original Message- John Kanagaraj Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, We talked about this earlier and I wanted to get this mail out before everyone participating departs for OOW. I would propose a Lister's get-together on the evening of Tuesday Sep 9. Monday is the first day, Wed has the 'OracleWorld Appreciation day' in the evening and I am assuming there will be felicatations for Arup and Mogens at this time... (and Thu ends it all). I have the following that have responded (in no particular order): Arup Nanda, Jonathan Gennick, Matthew Adams, Brian McGraw, Ari Kaplan, Cary Millsap (+ other Gurus - Cary brought along Tom Kyte and Kyle Hailey last time?), Connor McDonald (all the way from Down under!), Greg Loughmiller, Matthew Zito, Molina Gerardo and self. We will meet over Dinner at a restaurant across the street from Moscone Center - probably from about 6:30PM? The address is: Chevy's 201 3rd Street (corner of 3rd and Howard) San Francisco, CA 94105 415-543-8060 I will send out a reminder email closer to that time (like Monday :) Let me know if there are additional numbers... John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional! ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: offshoring article
They're hired by the people who came out of those very same universities. Most often McKinsey et al are hired to OK decisions that management have a hard time OK'ing themselves for various reasons. To be fair, of all the consulting companies that make money out of telling people that water runs downhill, McKinsey are among the very best. Ryan wrote: Here is a link to an article from McKinsey Co. My favorite positive is that offshoring IT jobs frees Americans up to do other jobs. Now they dont say 'what' jobs, but we are free to do them. If you dont know these are the guys who payed Chelsea Clinton 100k/year right out of college with no experience. If you explore their website they are more interested in where you went to school than anything else(notice how university comes before experience). who hires these guys? http://www.mckinsey.com/knowledge/mgi/offshore/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: DB2 has a foot in the door
There's one thing that IBM can do, which Microsoft and Oracle can't offer: They do site licenses as well as cpu and user licensing. That just gives them an incredible advantage to management and others who can stop thinking about whether they should buy another server, move stuff from one server to the other, etc. I can't believe Oracle and Microsoft are not doing it (I think I can guess, but it's still not good). Mladen Gogala wrote: I believe that the answer to Stephane's question is obvious: Oracle 10g will cost 10 grands/ CPU. That's where the letter g is coming from. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Stephane We've been very excited about Oracle Standard Edition. Helped stave off the interest in MS SQL. Given the budget pressures at many organizations, I'm surprised we don't hear more about this alternative. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 4:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, We're an Oracle shop, over 140 Oracle instances. Today, architecture has chosen IBM DB2 for BI projects. The next step I guessed will be to choose DB2 for the new transactionnal applications also. IBM offers DB2 at 25% less than Oracle. I wonder if Oracle 10G will come with a new pricing structure ? Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Masters exam
As another shareholder of Oracle (worth about $1.42 as I recall it), I think it's worth noticing that the richest guy in the universe at first thought this Internet thing wasn't really going to take off. When it did, he moved his company around very, very fast to embrace it. Perhaps not intellectually stimulating, but pretty good for his shareholders and employees. Most of Oracle's shareholders are employees or former ones, and they tend not to tell Larry what to do or not. The problem I see is how Oracle treats its stakeholders - the DBAs, techies, developers, and other fans who have supported The Good Database for so many years. Is the new Support model any way to treat your friends? ;-). It might be market driven, but there are flaws in the mechanism. I think if Larry really asked his shareholders what kind of future they see for the company he might be in for a surprise. If the Politburo thing (complete with the dream of one centralised body having ALL data required to make informed dedicsions) didn't work in Mladen's former country, why do we think it'll work for global companies? Just because they now have faster computers? Mogens Freeman Robert - IL wrote: With respect to all of you out there... I hear so many complaints about greedy Oracle, and about having to take a class to get certified and the dollar cost of that. I remind you folks that Oracle is a for profit venture. It's not Oracle's responsibility to make anything affordable. It's the responsibility of Oracle to generate revenue, it is the expectation of Oracle shareholders (of which I am one) that Oracle will do such a thing. I don't care if Larry is the 6th richest guy in the universe, so what? Why does that compel him to give you anything? It's all pure market driven. If people stop signing up for classes or OCP exams, Oracle will in quick fashion figure out why and change things. If people keep signing up for classes and taking the OCP, then viola, they have hit the sweet spot and will generate some revenue too. Socialism doesn't work folks, let's face it. If the OCP Masters credentials are worth the money, then spend it. If they are not, don't spend it. If enough people don't spend the money, then something will happen. Thats how a market driven economy works. RF -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year)
Oracle thinks the combined readership of Oracle Magazine and Profit Magazine is about 1 million. Sounds plausible to me. Of those 1 million, about 10 will see the ugly pictures of me in the November issue. Two of them will remember it. The other one will be my financee Anette, who also works in Miracle. But only because she can use it for business purposes, I think. Tim Gorman wrote: I think that it is Oracle Magazine that is actually awarding this, isn't it? That provides a clue to the source and methods... Does anyone pay for a subscription to Oracle Magazine? Probably not -- the price of subscription is generally to fill out a real or virtual subscription card, on which Job Title is queried. From that, they probably get their number of a quarter-million DBAs worldwide. Just my guess. Either that, or they do what I do and just pull the numbers out of my...er...thin air... I believe that Arup was awarded this honor and distinction for activities that have come to the attention of Oracle Magazine, namely articles written and published, work performed for Open World, IOUG-A, and SELECT magazine, local Oracle Users Groups, and (possibly?) exposure on this list from the excellent advice and explanations he's provided... ...and possibly from review of TARs opened, processed, and closed... :-) Of course it seems unlikely that #1 DBA can be chosen by any scientific method, but however they did it I think they made an excellent choice regardless! I've always appreciated Arup's contributions to this list and had the pleasure of seeing his presentation at NYOUG last December. --- And congratulations to Mogens for being named Educator of the Year! The leader of the junta which runs the Oak Table Forum has probably forgotten (or drowned?) more information than the rest of us have ever learned, but he's quite generous with the information he has resident. I've always learned something whenever he says anything! In fact, just recently he related the method of milking a nanny goat who has mastitis (yes, carefully and gently for starters, watch the horns...) :-) on 8/28/03 2:34 PM, Pete Sharman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And did you really think we DON'T monitor tars raised??? :) Pete Controlling developers is like herding cats. Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that! Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA. -Original Message- Hallas, John, Tech Dev Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 2:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Not being a party pooper but what does DBA of the Year actually mean. What criteria was used. How can Oracle know about a quarter of a million DBA's unless it monitors tars raised. John -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 August 2003 15:54 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Just came to know from CTOUG news that Oracle has chosen Arup Nanda(our List member) as DBA of the Year. Congratulations Arup. thought I will share this news with the group. CTOUG Board Member, Arup Nanda, Chosen as DBA of the Year Oracle has chosen our very own CTOUG board member, Arup Nanda, as the DBA of the Year, out of some quarter million DBAs worldwide. There will be a felicitation ceremony at OracleWorld and the award recipients will be featured in Nov-Dec issue of Oracle Magazine. Thought you would like to know, as a part of the CTOUG community. In his interview, he has mentioned CTOUG, so watch for it. Arup is President of Proligence (http://www.proligence.com/). Thanks. Best Regards, Prasad -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year)
Well, the title is You PROBABLY don't need RAC, and I did actually (but just for fun to see his reaction) propose to Cary that I would do a You Probably Don't Need Oracle presentation at the Hotsos Symposium. He didn't reply to that. So instead I'll do You probably don't need a goat. The reason - according to Jeff Spicer, the editor of Oracle Magazine - that I got an award was because of some stuff we've been doing here in Denmark together with Oracle Denmark. They include Specials and the DBA Nightschool. We call them Specials, but they're nothing else than targeted, special days where a certain topic (usually narrow, eg Partitioning, MVs, etc.) are covered by guys who both know the stuff theoretically and from real work. Many moons ago Oracle's own Lex de Haan started up something called Technical Seminars whereby I and others would travel the world and teach specialised topics for a day or two. I just copied Lex' ideas from back then and teamed up with Oracle Denmark's Education Director Henrik Wegge. It doesn't take away business from the normal classes, since this is for experienced participants, and it's a good way of keeping in touch with the experienced folks out there. The DBA Nightschool is something we did back in the Premium Services days in Oracle: DBAs will meet every Tuesday from 1700 to 2000 and go through a number of advanced topics and get to mix with other DBAs over the quick dinner or during the short breaks. We've taken it up again this year, and the topics include 8.1.7 New Features (there were certain things in 8.1.7 that were never covered in the 8i or 9i New Features classes because of timings), 10046, 10053, Throw-Away of rows, 10104, maybe some 10g stuff :). It was the guys at the Danish Oracle User Group (OUGDK) board that set me up for this award thing, and I'm very grateful for that, by the way. I got the call from Jeff Spicer during dinner at the DBA Nightschool, so it was kind of cool. I've always teased Cary with the fact that anything in America is award-winning these days. Well, suddenly I see it in a completely different light! Or maybe not. Mogens Tanel Poder wrote: RE: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year) hmmm... award to Mogens maybe for writing 'You Don't Need RAC' paper I think his next paper will 'You don't need Grid Computing' ... g I certainly hope it won't be You don't need Oracle or something similar ;) Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year)
And Tom Kyte is Author of the Year, by the way. Man, I feel honored and humble at being in company with Arup and Tom on this stuff. At least they do real work. All directors do is talk to other directors on the mobile or have lunch with other directors. Niall Litchfield wrote: Congratulations indeed Arup. Well deserved. I believe that Mogens is also named Educator of the Year. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 August 2003 15:54 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year) Just came to know from CTOUG news that Oracle has chosen Arup Nanda(our List member) as DBA of the Year. Congratulations Arup. thought I will share this news with the group. CTOUG Board Member, Arup Nanda, Chosen as DBA of the Year Oracle has chosen our very own CTOUG board member, Arup Nanda, as the DBA of the Year, out of some quarter million DBAs worldwide. There will be a felicitation ceremony at OracleWorld and the award recipients will be featured in Nov-Dec issue of Oracle Magazine. Thought you would like to know, as a part of the CTOUG community. In his interview, he has mentioned CTOUG, so watch for it. Arup is President of Proligence (http://www.proligence.com/). Thanks. Best Regards, Prasad -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: 32 or 64?
Yep. If you benefit from using more memory than what 32 bit stuff can handle, then of course 64 bit will help. If you don't benefit from more memory (that's likely to be the case for most), then 64 will just add overhead. But if the vendors are pushing 64 bit, then management will buy it. It has to be better, since the number is bigger (Law Of Bigger Numbers - LOBN). One could speculate that the next version of Oracle might only be available on 64 bit platforms, except of course on Intel. Mogens PS: And Anjo will do a presentation about this 64 bit stuff at the Database Forum here RSN. Karniotis, Stephen wrote: The added benefit comes with technology's ability to address/reference disk/memory/etc. in the 64-bit address space. Additionally straight 64-bit computing offers some added performance versus the concatenation of two 32-bit words. Tim is correct in that some performance degradation can be experienced if not implemented properly. Now, several vendors, as Joe Testa indicated, are converting all binaries to 64-bit and will not support 32-bit any longer. HP, Oracle, Sun, etc. are some prime examples. Expect the conversion/migration to take some time as 32-bit apps are still out there and will not be changed for several years. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (313) 227-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 12:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: 32 or 64? There are no performance benefits from the software change; in fact, anecdotal evidence is that there might even be a hit, since we're now moving more data about (i.e. 64-bit integers instead of 32-bit integers), but that is certainly debatable. Some very simple testing with C programs on dedicated servers should be able to lay that to rest... Bigger SGA and PGA along with access to the latest and greatest (?) software *probably* falls into the category of a benefit, right? The reason it may not be a benefit is that then folks see the ability to add more RAM as an all-round panacea. There's something purifying about having to make do within limitations... Not aware of any specific bugs related to wordsize. By the way, switching between wordsize isn't that hard. Check out the script ?/rdbms/admin/utlirp.sql and the package UTL_RP and some related MetaLink notes... on 8/18/03 9:14 AM, Daniel Fink at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a technical and business perspective, what are the reasons to migrate from 32-bit to 64-bit Oracle? Are there known bugs/problems with one version that are not present in the other? Daniel Fink -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: latch free wait event
Can instead of Will is probably only in the case where there's only one user on the system :-))). Cary Millsap wrote: Yes. Even with TIMED_STATISTICS=TRUE, relying on *any* statistic with system-wide scope can waste your time. For a 34-page introduction to the rationale behind this proposition, see: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/optoraclep/chapter/ch01.pdf Cary Millsap Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.hotsos.com Upcoming events: - Hotsos Clinic 101 in Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004, March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details... -Original Message- Wolfgang Breitling Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The number of waits is irrelevant. What matters is the time waited which in your case shows 0, but I assume that is because you have not set timed_statistics to true. Without that the data from v$system_event are worthless. Cary will probably step in here and tell you that even with timed_statistics that data is at best of dubious worth. At 02:49 PM 9/4/2003 -0800, you wrote: System-wide Wait Analysis for current wait events Average Event Total SecondsTotal Wait NameWaits Waiting Timeouts (in secs) - - - - --- latch free1,4590 1,393 .000 After querying v$system_event my biggest concern is the latch free wait event. I understand that latch free is the process waits for a latch that is currently busy ( held by another process).How can I drill down and find the cause of this? I have a feeling it is about rollback or redo logs. thanks, David Ehresmann -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ehresmann, David INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Wolfgang Breitling Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA Centrex Consulting Corporation http://www.centrexcc.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Offshore threat
While I was still in Oracle, thieves broke into the offices of Oracle in Oslo, Norway, and removed two HP cpu's from the main computer there. They ignored all the nice laptops on the tables around them. Now, that is weird. Mladen Gogala wrote: Two IBM mainframes stolen? Boy, the times are changing! To steal only a single 3090 600J, one would need a whole infantry division, not just two guys with a dolly. I bet they'll end up running Linux and having a ton of Jared's perl scripts on them. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- Wolfe Stephen S GS-11 6 MDSS/SGSI Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 11:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548967124.html A - This is social engineering at its finest. B - There is no security without PHYSICAL security C - If you don't check up on your outsourcer, then you can apparently get the shirt stolen off your back... v/r Stephen S. Wolfe, GS-11, DAFC Data Services Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] (813) 827-9974 DSN 651-9974 -Original Message- From: Stephane Paquette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore threat When working at International Air Transport Association (IATA), the company moved around 60 jobs from Geneva and London to Montreal because it was cheaper here. This is all business as usual. Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Mercadante, Thomas F Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all very funny and interesting. Anybody read the story in yesterday's NY times? Mexica has a concern that their textile industry is being stolen by China because it is cheaper to make products there than in Mexico. Sound familiar? This is the business we have chosen to be into Himen Roth (and I know spelled his first name wrong). -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L It doesn't work in only one direction. While jobs are bieng lost to cheaper labor markets, Indian companies now have to compete with frighteningly efficient giants like Nike, Coca Cola, IBM, Microsoft, GM, Union Carbide and others. Local companies are losing the market and have to reduce their workforce, driving the cost of labor further down and closing the vicious circle. What is scary is the fact that we are an order of magnitude more efficient then the rest of the world, even with all our PHB's and damagement. How messed up is everybody else? The only difference between a US DBA and a cleaning leady, which has also been replaced by an immigrant a long time ago, is the fact that the DBA has easier access to the DBA mailing lists. If we weren't crying foul then, there is no need to do it now. We will simply have to adjust and do something else. The first thing that comes to mind is becoming a lawyer. When I want to sue somebody, I'd like to be represented by a cutthroat yankee lawyer, not by a very polite and non-aggressive gentleman from India. Lawyers do need a killer instinct, DBAs do not. For those of us who have it, it's more of a hindrance then a useful tool. Lawyers and politicians, fortunately for Indians, will never be outsourced to India. Here is our chance. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- Souto Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L LOL! Funny how this globalisation bull only works in one direction, eh? Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - ** Another programmer who lost his job to an Indian outsourcer is willing to relocate in India. But Indian officials have told him they don't hire Americans. Read about another politicized IT worker in No Americans Need Apply. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error,
Re: Congratulations Arup (DBA of the Year)
Nope, no Bill O'Reilly isn't available here. What is it and how can I learn more about him? As for the pictures, you won't believe how fat I look. In other words, it was a good photographer who managed to capture me as I am. Here in this country we consider anyone weighing less than 100 kilos feminine. If you're not a member of Club 100, you're not a real man, in other words. For Cary's information, 100 Kilograms is about 4TB Pounds rounded to the nearest SquareGallon. Mladen Gogala wrote: On 2003.09.07 04:19, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: Oracle thinks the combined readership of Oracle Magazine and Profit Magazine is about 1 million. Sounds plausible to me. Of those 1 million, about 10 will see the ugly pictures of me in the November issue. Two of them will remember it. The other one will be my financee Anette, who also works in Miracle. But only because she can use it for business purposes, I think. Mogens, we will never forget your picture, how could we? The fact that Oracle Magazine is going to publish your picture proves beyond reasonable doubt that the magazine is fair and balanced, just like the Fox News. Just a private question: can you enjoy Mr. Bill O'Reilly in Danemark? Bill O'Reilly is not to be confused with Tim O'Reilly, the publisher of Cary's book, among other things. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Future demand for DBAs
By the time of the UKOUG conference in December we should have Miracle Breweries up and running. Capacity will not exceed two batches per week. However, each batch will be 400 liters each. For Cary's information, that's about 0.42 gallons. Niall Litchfield wrote: Jesse wrote Put down the Bud Light and drink a REAL beer like Three Floyds Alpha King, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Guinness, or Goose Island Honkers Ale. There's gotta be an Oracle hook here somehere...Drink REAL beer at OracleWorld! Real Ale Clusters... Flashback Query - you know the morning after you ask Did I really..? Grant under any table to... Errm in a desperate attempt to keep this vaguely on topic, those going to the UK for UKOUG in December who might be interested in a Real Ale evening drop us a line and I'll see if we can't organize something. Niall Stupid offers 'R' Us. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: more questions
Another fun fact about the OS390 port: If you set max dumb ( :) ) file size to 50 MB, then the session will write 50MB, close the file, open another one, and continue writing trace data to this one, and so one, until the session is done. Tim Gorman wrote: As an interesting side note, Oracle on MVS/OS390 offers multiplexing of datafiles, since at least Oracle v6, I believe. It's just something that never made the jump to other ports, I guess... on 9/1/03 9:09 PM, Sinardy Xing at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how to startup oracle after machine is bootup? you must configure your /etc/oratab Ans: add this line your_sid:your_oracle_home:AUTO(auto is keyword) how to shutdown oracle before Unix is shutdown? Ans: I don't think that Oracle provide such feature, but you can write OS script add to your in your init.d or simpler way replace your init binary file with your own for example # init 6 your new init /where is my shutdown script/shutdown oracle.sh /or perhaps you want to shutdown listener too or other application do it here/bla.sh sync sync original_init $1 It seems to me that I cannot multiplex data files. Is that true? Ans: Yes Oracle only allow you to multiplex your control files and redolog files but not your data files, however Oracle do recommend you to do RAID 0 + 1 if you have the $$$. Sinardy -Original Message- Sent: 02 September 2003 11:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Greetings, We are using solaris. I wonder how to startup oracle after machine is bootup and how to shutdown oracle before unix is shutdown? I know how to multiplex control files and redo files. It seems to me that I cannot multiplex data files. Is that true? Thanks! Jin -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: system tablespace at 50 pct_increase in 9i?
His name was Magnus Lönnroth or Lonnrott or something. He moved to the US after coming out with the WOW stuff, and help bring out the OWA or whatever it was called. Mladen Gogala wrote: Mogens, do you happen to know the name of the Swedish or Norwegian guy who wrote WOW gateway? He used to be a member of this list. WOW was the first thing to be able to access the oracle database through the CGI interface. That guy was phenomenal, I believe that he has had a part in WebIV as well. On 2003.09.07 04:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: When I was hired as a DBA by a bank here in 1987 I used 1200 baud modems to dial up and manage the 5.1.22 thing. Of course we used Kermit and set host/ x25 - very cool stuff back in those days. And free. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
