Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, hi all, Err... about CDash, is there any preference of type (nightly, continuous, experimental)? I'm not used to CDash and don't really know the differences (if there is any). And are there things I should know about it, or about sumbitting a build? Thanks. Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:39:43 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Guys, please stop pontificating about bug tracking/ticketing etc. Leave this type of long winded discussion until after we've got OSG-2.8 out the door. Learning and introducing new schemes is not what you do when you have an immenient release, instead you get on with job of testing and debugging and readying packaging. Sometimes this community is far more capable of talking than doing... Lets just go the job done. Things that need doing are: 1) Testing of build + runtime against real client apps across as many platforms as possible. 2) Fixing bugs 3) Completing the packaging support 4) Working out how we can better fit into distro packaging systems, liasing with package maintainers. 5) Submitting builds to the CDash dashboard : http://www.cdash.org/CDashPublic/viewConfigure.php?buildid=7682 6) Updating docs/wiki/news items for the OSG-2.8 Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Sukender, El Jueves 29 Enero 2009ES 13:58:49 Sukender escribió: Err... about CDash, is there any preference of type (nightly, continuous, experimental)? I'm not used to CDash and don't really know the differences (if there is any). And are there things I should know about it, or about sumbitting a build? Any (nightly or continuous) would do. Nightly will compile SVN once a day. If you set continuous build you can specify how many times you are willing to build the SVN a day, it's your preference. There isn't really any more things to know than the instructions at http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Build/CDash Regards, Alberto ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Thanks! However, I do compile manually (no scheduled tasks). I think nightly will do it. :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:14:10 +0100, Alberto Luaces alua...@udc.es a écrit: Hi Sukender, El Jueves 29 Enero 2009ES 13:58:49 Sukender escribió: Err... about CDash, is there any preference of type (nightly, continuous, experimental)? I'm not used to CDash and don't really know the differences (if there is any). And are there things I should know about it, or about sumbitting a build? Any (nightly or continuous) would do. Nightly will compile SVN once a day. If you set continuous build you can specify how many times you are willing to build the SVN a day, it's your preference. There isn't really any more things to know than the instructions at http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Build/CDash Regards, Alberto ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Actually, experimental should be better since it is said that It can be usefull, but maybe only for testing purposes or reporting specific issues maybe... which is what I do: I complile just for a specific test. Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:54:19 +0100, Sukender suky0...@free.fr a écrit: Thanks! However, I do compile manually (no scheduled tasks). I think nightly will do it. :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:14:10 +0100, Alberto Luaces alua...@udc.es a écrit: Hi Sukender, El Jueves 29 Enero 2009ES 13:58:49 Sukender escribió: Err... about CDash, is there any preference of type (nightly, continuous, experimental)? I'm not used to CDash and don't really know the differences (if there is any). And are there things I should know about it, or about sumbitting a build? Any (nightly or continuous) would do. Nightly will compile SVN once a day. If you set continuous build you can specify how many times you are willing to build the SVN a day, it's your preference. There isn't really any more things to know than the instructions at http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Build/CDash Regards, Alberto ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert -- As we approach 2.8, do you have a list of new features added post-2.6? This would help direct my testing at recently-modified or recently-added functionality. Thanks, Paul Martz Skew Matrix Software LLC http://www.skew-matrix.com +1 303 859 9466 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Paul, On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Paul Martz pma...@skew-matrix.com wrote: Hi Robert -- As we approach 2.8, do you have a list of new features added post-2.6? This would help direct my testing at recently-modified or recently-added functionality. I don't have a list yet, once 2.7.9 is out and we start working on the 2.8 branch I'll start writing the NEWS.txt entry. The are big features are osgAnimation and osgVolume, but there are dozens of other improvements. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
--- On Fri, 23/1/09, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com wrote: snip I would very much like for us to get the OSG binaries sorted out for this OSG-2.8, both for platforms like Windows and OSX, and for linux, in particular knocking on the Linux distro doors to get OSG-2.8 in the up coming linux releases. I greatly appreciate any assistance you can provide in terms or testing or helping out on the coordinating with packaging of the final release. Hi, I'm currently teaching myself how to build rpms. Would that be of any use for you? I know they are typically targeted at specific distributions but I have a large hard drive and could try to make then up for any distribtions I can get my hands on! From what I've read so far it seems that it would be better to create a source rpm first and then I can build the actual binary rpm on the target platform. Or maybe it's only the source rpm itself that should be made available? Of course this would be my first project at building rpms which might be a bit ambitious but you have to learn somewhere and it would be great to give something back! Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Paul, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Paul Fotheringham osg_u...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I'm currently teaching myself how to build rpms. Would that be of any use for you? It would. There is a message of Mattias, on the thread about LIB_POSTFIX, which mentions how to create rpms using CPack, so this would be a good place to start. I know they are typically targeted at specific distributions but I have a large hard drive and could try to make then up for any distributions I can get my hands on! Will you have to install the various distros? I'd guess that that the main rpm based Distro's would be RedHat, Fedora and Mandriva. Do you have any these right now? The first step would be to get rpm's built for the upcoming 2.7.9 on your present platform then get others to test these out. Of course this would be my first project at building rpms which might be a bit ambitious but you have to learn somewhere and it would be great to give something back! That's the attitude! We would get much done if we were only ever tackle things we knew 100% about. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
--- On Tue, 27/1/09, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8 To: osg_u...@yahoo.co.uk, OpenSceneGraph Users osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org Date: Tuesday, 27 January, 2009, 9:24 AM Hi Paul, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Paul Fotheringham osg_u...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I'm currently teaching myself how to build rpms. Would that be of any use for you? It would. There is a message of Mattias, on the thread about LIB_POSTFIX, which mentions how to create rpms using CPack, so this would be a good place to start. Thanks, I'll check that out. I know they are typically targeted at specific distributions but I have a large hard drive and could try to make then up for any distributions I can get my hands on! Will you have to install the various distros? I thought so but perhaps there's an easier way? I'll investigate this further. I'd guess that that the main rpm based Distro's would be RedHat, Fedora and Mandriva. Do you have any these right now? I use Fedora at work and Mandriva at home so that should help. I think SuSE is rpm-based too or at least it was the last time I used it years ago. The first step would be to get rpm's built for the upcoming 2.7.9 on your present platform then get others to test these out. I'll start with that then. Can't promise how quickly it'll happen of course but I'll do my best :) Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi All, I've just updated the BugResolution page on the wiki for the work on getting ready for 2.8. The page can be found at: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Tasks/BugResolution If have have bugs that exist in svn trunk + 2.7.x then please added them into this page, and include details on how to help to reproduce them. Also post to the osg-users list to help coordinate this work, as it's osg-users will be where all the dialogue happens - its the dialogue that typically gets these problems resolved so don't please don't hesitate to engage on these topics. When populating the BugResolution page it's good to add links to the osg-users archives on the topic to enable other engineers to follow discussions. Also providing examples that reproduce the problems is useful. The key to success is working together to resolve bugs, remember we are all in the same boat, all users/developers, we all have the source code so are all empowered to help track down the source of bugs as well as fix them. If you don't feel you have the knowledge to fix bugs, then work to make it easier for others with this knowledge to quickly reproduce and home in on the problems. For those who have time and skills they can put to good use on the packaging front please note we have a page for this, which needs updating with latest info on cpack etc. http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Packaging Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, why making the life harder than it already is :) I mean making Wiki for Bug resolutions, which can be done with the Ticket system as well. I think using tickets will be an easier way than using the wiki. You only have to connect the ticket system with the mailing list and acitvate it, then we all will recieve a bug message as soon as somebody create a new ticket. Even more, I could catch up tickets sent to the mailing list and represent them in the forum marked in a certain way. This will make even the life of forum users easier, because they could directly see what happens with new bugs without checking the Wiki-Page. Thus we will have everything in one place, without loosing any new bugs/resolutions. cheers, art -- Read this topic online here: http://osgforum.tevs.eu/viewtopic.php?p=5231#5231 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Art, I must admit I'm not familiar with the Ticket system. I use Tracs in a very basic way. Perhaps it's time to learn... I am rather wary of using instigating a bug tracking system as sometimes they can be misused for feature request, and can create a barrier in direct communication. I got burned by bug tracking systems in the past, where is caused far more work than it helped so have avoided them since. The Ticket system may well avoid the pitfalls. Robert. On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Art Tevs stud_in...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi Robert, why making the life harder than it already is :) I mean making Wiki for Bug resolutions, which can be done with the Ticket system as well. I think using tickets will be an easier way than using the wiki. You only have to connect the ticket system with the mailing list and acitvate it, then we all will recieve a bug message as soon as somebody create a new ticket. Even more, I could catch up tickets sent to the mailing list and represent them in the forum marked in a certain way. This will make even the life of forum users easier, because they could directly see what happens with new bugs without checking the Wiki-Page. Thus we will have everything in one place, without loosing any new bugs/resolutions. cheers, art -- Read this topic online here: http://osgforum.tevs.eu/viewtopic.php?p=5231#5231 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, I've just updated the BugResolution page on the wiki for the work on getting ready for 2.8. The page can be found at: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Tasks/BugResolution Just wondering, I noticed you placed the osgShadow circular reference issue in the Recently Fixed bugs category, but the fix has not been checked in yet. Should it be moved back to Should resolve until you've had time to review it? Thanks, J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Robert Osfield wrote: I must admit I'm not familiar with the Ticket system. I use Tracs in a very basic way. Perhaps it's time to learn... I don't think there is much difference between Trac's tickets and what you find in a regular (bug) tracking system, such as Bugzilla or Roundup. The advantage of Trac is that everything (wiki, sources, tickets) is integrated, so you can easily refer to a source revision from a ticket or wiki page, or refer to a ticket from a FAQ page. I am rather wary of using instigating a bug tracking system as sometimes they can be misused for feature request, and can create a barrier in direct communication. I got burned by bug tracking systems in the past, where is caused far more work than it helped so have avoided them since. The Ticket system may well avoid the pitfalls. It seems the things you describe above are mostly social problems, e.g. users putting large amounts of feature requests in a system meant for tracking bugs. This might be out of lack of experience with software development (not being able to recognize when something is a bug), lack of OpenGL experience (thinking OSG screws up while the user is misusing OpenGL) or just plain ignorance. There may be some social solution to these, such as not allowing just everyone to enter tickets, but only a small number of experienced OSG users that can validate each requests/bugs merits (after these get posted to osg-users, or even a dedicated list). That way the advantages of having a central bug list are not lost. Currently, I think there isn't anybody (not even Robert) that has a complete overview of all outstanding issues with OSG. Having them in a central location for everybody to see might not immediately help them get resolved, but my feeling is that NOT having a central list isn't helping in that respect. Regards, Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, Just wondering, I noticed you placed the osgShadow circular reference issue in the Recently Fixed bugs category, but the fix has not been checked in yet. Sorry about that, just got your other message. J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi JS, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote: Just wondering, I noticed you placed the osgShadow circular reference issue in the Recently Fixed bugs category, but the fix has not been checked in yet. Should it be moved back to Should resolve until you've had time to review it? I had a fix waiting to apply when I added the entry, I didn't see a need to list it as a unresolved bug otherwise others might end up trying to fix something that already has a fix. Now I've actually applied by own changes to fix this bug, inspired by your fix, and this is now checked in, so the web page is now fully correct (hopefully :-) Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Robert Osfield wrote: Hi JS, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote: Just wondering, I noticed you placed the osgShadow circular reference issue in the Recently Fixed bugs category, but the fix has not been checked in yet. Should it be moved back to Should resolve until you've had time to review it? I had a fix waiting to apply when I added the entry, I didn't see a need to list it as a unresolved bug otherwise others might end up trying to fix something that already has a fix. Now I've actually applied by own changes to fix this bug, inspired by your fix, and this is now checked in, so the web page is now fully correct (hopefully :-) I added the revision numbers for the fixed bugs. Trac at its finest :) Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Paul, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Paul Melis p...@science.uva.nl wrote: I am rather wary of using instigating a bug tracking system as sometimes they can be misused for feature request, and can create a barrier in direct communication. I got burned by bug tracking systems in the past, where is caused far more work than it helped so have avoided them since. The Ticket system may well avoid the pitfalls. It seems the things you describe above are mostly social problems, e.g. users putting large amounts of feature requests in a system meant for tracking bugs. This might be out of lack of experience with software development (not being able to recognize when something is a bug), lack of OpenGL experience (thinking OSG screws up while the user is misusing OpenGL) or just plain ignorance. My experiences were from nearly 10 years ago now.. But issues are the same. Fixing bugs is very much a social activity, in as much as it's the fixing bugs almost always requires a two way dialogue between the people able to reproduce the bug and those engaged in try to fix it. Facilitating the two way dialogue is absolutely the most important part of any bug resolution scheme - which is why I've always focused on osg-users as the route for bug resolution. There may be some social solution to these, such as not allowing just everyone to enter tickets, but only a small number of experienced OSG users that can validate each requests/bugs merits (after these get posted to osg-users, or even a dedicated list). That way the advantages of having a central bug list are not lost. Currently, I think there isn't anybody (not even Robert) that has a complete overview of all outstanding issues with OSG. Having them in a central location for everybody to see might not immediately help them get resolved, but my feeling is that NOT having a central list isn't helping in that respect. I can certainly see value in having a properly maintained issue tracking system, but this requires active management which in turn means that it takes time to engage in - time that could be spent actually fixing bugs. One only gains once such as system helps resolve more bugs than would have otherwise been fixed. Learning an maintaining a new system is something takes time for me and others in the community. Perhaps after 2.8 is out the door we can properly explore this possibility. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Osfield wrote: Hi Art, I must admit I'm not familiar with the Ticket system. I use Tracs in a very basic way. Perhaps it's time to learn... I am rather wary of using instigating a bug tracking system as sometimes they can be misused for feature request, and can create a barrier in direct communication. The usual way to deal with this is that a bug tracker has categories and severities for bugs. E.g Mandriva's Bugzilla has a severity wishlist for a new feature request - it makes it easy to track these as well and things will not fall through the cracks. They are not bugs in the original sense of the word, but the system works well for them too. Certainly beats keeping track of all that manually in some file, where noone else can see it or some kind of unstructured Wiki page. Regarding the direct communication - I do not see where the barrier could be. Just send an e-mail to the reporter. If you mean the discussion that can occur (and frequently does) under the individual items in the bug tracker instead on a mailing list, I think that is valuable info for whoever tries to fix the bug - everything is in one place. Mandriva usually does both - the bug gets described on Bugzilla, then people comment and discuss it on the list and additional info is added to the bug description, sometimes with links to the list archives when mails are referenced. That is why it is important to have a link between the bug tracker and a mailing list, where new bug reports are cc-d - so that people are kept aware of new things being reported without having to search for them. I got burned by bug tracking systems in the past, where is caused far more work than it helped so have avoided them since. The Ticket system may well avoid the pitfalls. I think it comes down to the way the tool is used - set some rules and policies (like with the patch submission protocol) and it will work. Regards, Jan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mandriva - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJfxisn11XseNj94gRAuTrAKDhvlda4MUAn6z81JfYqOkt5kOyiwCffjXI vc9M1M/aDfKfhZw+lJUngZk= =2VFX -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Paul, I added the revision numbers for the fixed bugs. Trac at its finest :) Yep, very nice :-) J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Robert Osfield wrote: Hi All, I've just updated the BugResolution page on the wiki for the work on getting ready for 2.8. The page can be found at: http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Tasks/BugResolution If have have bugs that exist in svn trunk + 2.7.x then please added them into this page, and include details on how to help to reproduce them. Also post to the osg-users list to help coordinate this work, I added a small issue where the statistics are not shown in a very readable way. Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Paul Melis p...@science.uva.nl wrote: I added a small issue where the statistics are not shown in a very readable way. I noted these problems when I was refactoring the internals to fix the threading issues. Fixing the sizes of the rectangles is trivial. Extra labels are needed as well. Feel free to go fix these while I go chase some other bugs :-) Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, Robert Osfield wrote: My experiences were from nearly 10 years ago now.. But issues are the same. Fixing bugs is very much a social activity, in as much as it's the fixing bugs almost always requires a two way dialogue between the people able to reproduce the bug and those engaged in try to fix it. Facilitating the two way dialogue is absolutely the most important part of any bug resolution scheme - which is why I've always focused on osg-users as the route for bug resolution. I think using a ticket system as already providid by the trac enviornment you are using for the project is the way one should go to make the project more flexible and younger. Look, the osg project is not a small project anymore and the community is continuosly growing. Using mailing lists only doesn't make all the users happy. And I still think that this kind of support/community is outdated. There exists a lot of capabilities to handle big projects well. Forums, Tickets and Wikis are such systems. We are happy to have a Wiki and a Forum now and ticket system would just make the whole project more flexible and better supported than now. It could even reduce your workload, because users could assigned tickets to themself and help other users without your intronvention. I understand that it is hard to give away a control to more dezentralized way, however for a such big project as osg it is the way to go in the future, I think. Come on, you will still stay the big boss/president of the osg community ;) Users/Developers/Contributors could register on the trac system with their own usernames. Then whenever a new ticket or feature request is posted somebody who thinks he is able to manage the bug, could assign the current ticket to himself. Peoples visiting the ticket system are able then to trace the bug resolution process and could see who is currently responsible for writing a solution. Even more as we have discussed in another thread (Ideas for osg 3.0) ticket system/trac environment could be setted up in a hierarchical way, so that there will be a hierarchy of contributors/maintainers of the project. When we split up osg to main core and node kit suites, there could be categories in the ticket system handling only about the node kits and the maintainer responsible for his node kit will do the managing work. I think this is the way we have to go, instead of managing bugs on a wiki page. Wiki pages would produce more work because of persistent mirroring of real osg state on the wiki page. Best regards, art -- Read this topic online here: http://osgforum.tevs.eu/viewtopic.php?p=5264#5264 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Guys, please stop pontificating about bug tracking/ticketing etc. Leave this type of long winded discussion until after we've got OSG-2.8 out the door. Learning and introducing new schemes is not what you do when you have an immenient release, instead you get on with job of testing and debugging and readying packaging. Sometimes this community is far more capable of talking than doing... Lets just go the job done. Things that need doing are: 1) Testing of build + runtime against real client apps across as many platforms as possible. 2) Fixing bugs 3) Completing the packaging support 4) Working out how we can better fit into distro packaging systems, liasing with package maintainers. 5) Submitting builds to the CDash dashboard : http://www.cdash.org/CDashPublic/viewConfigure.php?buildid=7682 6) Updating docs/wiki/news items for the OSG-2.8 Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 15:16 +, Art Tevs wrote: Hi Robert, Robert Osfield wrote: My experiences were from nearly 10 years ago now.. But issues are the same. Fixing bugs is very much a social activity, in as much as it's the fixing bugs almost always requires a two way dialogue between the people able to reproduce the bug and those engaged in try to fix it. Facilitating the two way dialogue is absolutely the most important part of any bug resolution scheme - which is why I've always focused on osg-users as the route for bug resolution. I think using a ticket system as already providid by the trac enviornment you are using for the project is the way one should go to make the project more flexible and younger. Look, the osg project is not a small project anymore and the community is continuosly growing. Using mailing lists only doesn't make all the users happy. And I still think that this kind of support/community is outdated. There exists a lot of capabilities to handle big projects well. Forums, Tickets and Wikis are such systems. We are happy to have a Wiki and a Forum now and ticket system would just make the whole project more flexible and better supported than now. I'm confused by this thread somewhat--what exactly is going on? Is OSG adopting some external management software for bug tracking and what not, or are we discussing the possibility thereof? It could even reduce your workload, because users would assigned tickets to themself and help other users without your intronvention. I understand that it is hard to give away a control to more dezentralized way, however for a such big project as osg it is the way to go in the future, I think. Come on, you will still stay the big boss/president of the osg community ;) Users/Developers/Contributors could register on the trac system with their own usernames. Then whenever a new ticket or feature request is posted somebody who thinks he is able to manage the bug, could assign the current ticket to himself. Peoples visiting the ticket system are able then to trace the bug resolution process and could see who is currently responsible for writing a solution. Even more as we have discussed in another thread (Ideas for osg 3.0) ticket system/trac environment could be setted up in a hierarchical way, so that there will be a hierarchy of contributors/maintainers of the project. When we split up osg to main core and node kit suites, there could be categories in the ticket system handling only about the node kits and the maintainer responsible for his node kit will do the managing work. I think this is the way we have to go, instead of managing bugs on a wiki page. Wiki pages would produce more work because of persistent mirroring of real osg state on the wiki page. Best regards, art -- Read this topic online here: http://osgforum.tevs.eu/viewtopic.php?p=5264#5264 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Jeremy, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote: I'm confused by this thread somewhat--what exactly is going on? Is OSG adopting some external management software for bug tracking and what not, or are we discussing the possibility thereof? It's just ended up being another me-too thread... lots of suggestions, little action... Nothing is happening on introducing new systems. For OSG-2.8 we'll stick with osg-users for reporting bugs and resolve them as usual, and posting details on these bugs and their resolution on the usual BugResolution page. Once OSG-2.8 we can discuss the possibility of introducing an formal system for issue tracking. Job now is to getting everything ready for OSG-2.8 and make it as best we can. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Robert Osfield wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Paul Melis p...@science.uva.nl wrote: I added a small issue where the statistics are not shown in a very readable way. I noted these problems when I was refactoring the internals to fix the threading issues. Fixing the sizes of the rectangles is trivial. Extra labels are needed as well. Feel free to go fix these while I go chase some other bugs :-) It's being worked on (by me) Paul ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 15:51 +, Robert Osfield wrote: Hi Jeremy, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote: I'm confused by this thread somewhat--what exactly is going on? Is OSG adopting some external management software for bug tracking and what not, or are we discussing the possibility thereof? It's just ended up being another me-too thread... lots of suggestions, little action... Nothing is happening on introducing new systems. For OSG-2.8 we'll stick with osg-users for reporting bugs and resolve them as usual, and posting details on these bugs and their resolution on the usual BugResolution page. Once OSG-2.8 we can discuss the possibility of introducing an formal system for issue tracking. Job now is to getting everything ready for OSG-2.8 and make it as best we can. Okay, cool. :) I get about 1000 lines worth of warnings when I build OSG with: -W -Wall ...which is troublesome, because it prevents me from using those arguments in my own projects because of the warnings in OSG headers. I'd like to fix this (and have brought it up in the past), but it doesn't make sense to submit 50 or 60 full files for one-line fixes. Any ideas on this? Again, I can fix it myself--the question is, do you trust me to do it? :) Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Jeremy, On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote: I get about 1000 lines worth of warnings when I build OSG with: -W -Wall ...which is troublesome, because it prevents me from using those arguments in my own projects because of the warnings in OSG headers. I'd like to fix this (and have brought it up in the past), but it doesn't make sense to submit 50 or 60 full files for one-line fixes. Any ideas on this? Again, I can fix it myself--the question is, do you trust me to do it? :) I've spent quite a bit of time on doing a warnings purge, and pretty well all the sensible/fixable warnings have been fixed now. By default the OSG now builds with aggressive warnings enabled, so I kinda surprised that you are still seeing warnings. Could you post me the compile output you are seeing. What compiler are you using? Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Sukender, On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: That's a nice idea, and I may help for building/testing... But binaries may take much disk space, especially if dev releases are uploaded, and SVN is meant to keep all revisions (even if real deleting is still possible, yet not very clean, I think). Won't this make your hard disks explode? :) IMHO, a simple FTP/SFTP/SCP/HTTPS/Whatever upload would be enough. You would then be able to do some cleanup when needed. Anyway, when writing access will be possible, I'd be glad to help (when possible!). I feel that binary releases for dev release is not appropriate, only stable releases need binaries. The current webserver has support for ftp and webdav which is a possible route. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Development plan for imminent stable OSG-2.8
Hi Robert, If svn/trunk is looking near perfect for the release we may even be able to get OSG-2.8.0 out this month, but probably we'll be talking about a release in the first week of February. Regarding this, I just did a build of current SVN and it went well, with the latest warning fixes and suppressions it's pretty much warning free (didn't pay close attention, I will next time I do a build). I would very much like for us to get the OSG binaries sorted out for this OSG-2.8, both for platforms like Windows [...] On Windows making packages is a no-brainer now, thanks to the recent work. Great work Mattias! All we need is a submission mechanism. If I want my binaries to be available, where do I upload them? Some FTP site could perhaps be set up with an /incoming directory... Do we want some testing by the community before they're made available on the Downloads page? I can take care of packages for VC8, debug and release, if we can sort these questions out. Possibly VC7.1 and VC9 too, but if someone else could do those it would be better for my work schedule :-) Thanks, and looking forward to 2.8! J-S -- __ Jean-Sebastien Guayjean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com http://www.cm-labs.com/ http://whitestar02.webhop.org/ ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
