RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: help needed
As far as I know, fluid levels dropping can also mean that the baby is just getting ready to be born. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cath nolan Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: help needed resending this and hoping it gets to the list. - Original Message - From: cath nolan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: help needed I have a good friend from Kununurra who has gone to Perth who is 9 days post dates and wishing desperately for a vbac. She is seeing the clinic at Osborne park and has had a show and periods of niggling and sporadic contractions for the past few days. Has been told today to come in for c/section tomorrow at 0630 and the staff are refusing to to a sweep and stretch ( even though the Reg said to have one 1 week ago) I have advised castor oil and to question why tomorrow. They have mentioned fluid levels dropping, but haven't done anything about that- sounds like scary medical tactics to me. Has anyone got any ideas, I would like to be there to do a sweep but I'm in Victoria. Thanks Cath
RE: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception
Radical is a good word :-) and doesn't imply crimes against humanity. For example, the Association of Radical Midwives gives this explanation: Why Radical? In the mid 70s, the majority of pregnant women in UK had labour induced by artificial rupture of membranes (ARM) around the date they were due. These initials were used when the group needed a name, using the dictionary definition of radical, (roots, origins, basics, etc.) which aptly described the basic midwifery skills which they hoped to revive. Happy holidays! Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jayne/jesse Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception Sorry :) Sometimes I'm at a loss for words. I'm been called one of those numerous times for my views on births/babies/breastfeeding. It doesn't offend me though. It's how I feel/live/believe. I'd never call a breastfeeding counsellor or midwive one! The ones I've met are far too good at what they do in getting the message across to have to resort to the way I blatantly state things at time. Guess that's why I'll never be able to be either one of those and instead spend my life getting my fix on list like ozmid! Here's to getting the message out there that there that breast is absolutely perfect. Jayne - Original Message - From: Barbara Glare Chris Bright mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception Hi, I'm being far more bah humbug than I really should be for christmas! Sorry. Jayne, I appreciate your sentiments, and realise we are on the same side. But could we please not use Nazi in relation to passionate supporters of breastfeeding? Most on this list put their heart and soul into birth and breastfeeding. The term nazi offends me to the core. I just can't bear it, and I just don't see the funny side about it. If breastfeeding supporters use it, even in jest, how can we expect others not to? (usually to deride the fantastic work done by breastfeeding counsellors and midwives) What new mother would want to speak to a Nazi? It turns people away from getting sound advice. Off my soapbox now! Barb
FW: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception
Trying once again :-) My experience is two years of lactational amenorrhea (one and only child). I did breastfeed very often in the first year, every hour or so and very often during the night (for a long time every two hours or even more often), co-sleeped, no dummies, was there with him all day long. In the second year I went back to work and didn't breastfeed for 9 hours, but he made it up when we were together. I think it was also every two hours or so during the night. I'm thin and weight-loss was a problem for me after giving birth, I kept losing weight without wanting to. But this is all anecdotal evidence. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jayne/jesse Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:43 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception Being 100% pro breastfeeding Barb, I'd like to go along with your 98%. I have to agree with Janet though. There are very real reasons why the 98% does not apply to all in our culture particularly. Having 100% fully breastfed three babies from periods of 6 months to 11 months, not used bottles or dummies but did indeed co-sleep, sling baby and suckle on demand for the whole periods of time indicated, I became fertile at 4 months pp, 5 months pp and the last one was the shocker.6 weeks pp! I was fully aware of mucous signs before fertility returned and pinpointed them exactly except with the last one, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me and I didn't believe it until it happened. So because of my experiences, I'm reluctant to spout 98% success rates re breastfeeding as contraception I have also heard that maternal fat levels can play a part - higher levels. Mine was actually average to low at the times when fertility returned. There was one thing that I feel triggered fertility returning and that was the point when my babies started to sleep for periods of 4 to 6 hours at a stretch through the night. Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception I don't think it's risky or tricky, or silly for that matter. I was trying to be thorough in my reply and not make sweeping statements. Recently one of my moderators did some research on achieving fertility again while breastfeeding so she came up with a list which could equally be applied to Kylie's article. Obviously LA works a treat if you look at cultures which pursue child-led weaning but western culture just doesn't and therein can lie the problems for many people. Most people don't understand anything about bf in the first place, as we all know ; ) Here's the list in case you're interested, Kylie. It was for a member with a 2 year old who'd like to ttc but hasn't bled in 2 years and with no signs of bfing slowing. It's a very mixed bag of refs but some great ones : ) * Feeding EBM by bottle (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:1ilEf4An7dMJ:www.bfmed.org/ace-files/protocol/finalcontraceptionprotocolsent2.pdf+lactational+am enorrhea+fertilityhl=engl=auct=clnkcd=30 http://www.bfmed.org/ace-files/protocol/finalcontraceptionprotocolsent2.pdf+lactational+amenorrhea+fertilityhl=engl=auct=clnkcd=30 ) * Supplementing feeds (formula or solids) * Increased use of pacifiers * Feeding on schedule instead of on demand * Increased intervals between feeds (4hrs during day, 6hrs at night) * Waiting until bub is 6mths or older * Reduce time at the breast during a feed (shorter feeds, no comfort sucking) * Reduce total time at the breast per day to 65 min or less (McNeilly AS, Glasier AF, Howie PW, Houston MJ, Cook A,Boyle H. Fertility after childbirth: pregnancy associated with breast feeding. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1983 Aug;19(2):167-73., http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/faq/lam.html http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/faq/lam.html ) * Reduce night time feeds (Heinig MJ, Nommsen-Rivers LA, Peerson JM, Dewey KG. Factors related to duration of postpartum amenorrhoea among USA women with prolonged lactation. J Biosoc Sci. 1994 Oct;26(4):517-27., http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/faq/lam.html http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/faq/lam.html ) * Stop co-sleeping, including no naps with your child during the day (Kippley, Sheila. Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing: How Ecological Breastfeeding Spaces Babies. Cincinnati: Couple to Couple League International, 1999, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_Amenorrhea_Method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_Amenorrhea_Method ) * Be separated from your child for more than 3 hours a day (Kippley, Sheila. Breastfeeding and Natural
RE: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception
You might want to search for ecological breastfeeding. This is what I found: Exclusive breastfeeding means giving your baby nothing but milk from your breast; frequent nursing (including at night); pacifying the baby at your breast, rather than with a rubber pacifier; and feeding without a schedule. These behaviors will likely dry up your cervical mucus and also keep you from ovulating or menstruating. Sheila Kippley, co-founder of the Couple to Couple League, a Catholic organization that promotes Natural Family Planning, calls these behaviors ecological breastfeeding when the mother also takes a daily nap with the baby, and sleeps with the baby for easy night nursings. but I'm sure there is more. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kylie Carberry Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception I am doing a story on contraception for a pareting magazine. I want to state that the WHO confirmed breastfeeding as 98 per cent effective means of birth control for the first six months provided the baby was fully breasfed and periods have not commenced. So as far as the 'fully' part goes, how is that interpreted. My friend thought she was fully breastfeeding, however, her twin boys were sleeping 8 hours at night and thus she became pregnant when they were four months old. So does fully mean no less than four-hourly feeds. Or should women just take added precautions if they are not up for any little surprises. thanks in advance Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception
I have a friend who also wanted to get pregnant while breastfeeding so she gradually stopped nursing at night, got her period, got pregnant, gave birth and continued to breastfeed them both. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helen and Graham Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception I have recently met a woman who specifically gave up breastfeeding her six month old so she could get pregnant. That seemed like a real shame but she was very keen to get pregnant ASAP. What would ABA's advice be on this one? Helen - Original Message - From: Barbara Glare Chris Bright mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception Hi, I don't think Lactational Amenorrhea is as risky or tricky as Janet said. From Breastfeeding Management (Brodribb)In 1988 the World Health Organisation and other interested parties formulated a concensus statement about the conditions under which Lactation provides an effective and safe form of contraception. Known as the Bellagio Concensus, it states that if a woman is fully or nearly fully breastfeeding, is amenorrhoeic and is less than 6 mnths postpartum she is 98% protected from pregnancy. Since that time, studies in Australia, Chile, the Phillippines, Pakistan and the USA have confirmed this concensus, often showing failure rates of lower than the two percent quoted. Thus, this applies in the developed as well as developing countries and in well nourished women. A further conference in Bellagio in 1995 confirmed the original findings and concluded that. Wheras amenorrheoea is an absolute requirement for ensuring a low risk of pregnancy, it might be possible to relax or break the requirement of full or nearly full breastfeeding. It may also be possible to extend the duration of use beyond 6 mnths. Kylie, please don't write an article that makes breastfeeding as a form or contraception seem unreliable, silly or so difficult to comply with that it would be impossible to use. (not that it sounds in any way like you would - but that is the tone often in such articles.) While the 2% are very vocal when they become pregnant, my observances are that Lactational Amenhorrea is extremely reliable. The thing to remember is that once your period is back all bets are off. (if under 6 mnths.) While this whole story demonstrates that the plural of stories is not data I returned to full time work when my son was 6 weeks old, and remained amenhorreac until he was 15mths, whereupon I had one period and then got pregnant with my 2nd. Barb - Original Message - From: Kylie Carberry mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception if one isn't sure has got to be a good thing, hey? Absolutely. thanks for that, Janet. Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747 From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding as contraception Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:56:35 +1100 It's a complex list of stuff, not just bfing, that creates lactational ammenorhea, Kylie. Cosleeping, no dummies, no bottles of ebm, no being away from your child/ren longer than about 3 hours, and having a nap in the daytime with them among other things. And then ultimately each woman is different in her experience of menstruation recommencing. Women who use bfing in conjunction with knowing their own fertile signs are doubly covered and a barrier method now and then if one isn't sure has got to be a good thing, hey? J - Original Message - From: Kylie Carberry mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:09 AM
RE: [ozmidwifery] A giggle for Christmas
:D This is great!!! Wish I could have seen it :-)! Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:47 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] A giggle for Christmas This came through on my email today and I thought a giggle at this crazy time of year would help keep you all sane. warm regards Di Gardner Went to Abigail's school Christmas concert (no proper Nativity this year Sad ). Each class did a little something followed by a song or 2. Anyway, Ab's class did a Nativity scene, with Ab as Mary ( Grin How proud was I?). A few mins into their bit Ab promptly lifted her dress shoved baby Jesus up it. The script then wandered away from what they'd learnt goes as follows Joseph: What are you doing? Mary: I'm feeding our baby Shepherd: Have you got a bottle up there then? Mary: Don't be silly he's having milk from my booby Joseph: That's disgusting Mary: No, that baby milk they have in Tescos is disgusting. My baby's having proper milk Shepherd: What's a booby? Mary: Those sticky out bits ladies have Shepherd: They're not boobies, they're nipples Mary: No they're not, they're boobies Joseph: So why can't Jesus have milk from a bottle then? Mary: Because I haven't got a breast pump with me - you forgot to put it on the donkey Shepherd: Can't you ask the teacher for a bottle to feed Jesus with? Mary: No because this is the best way to feed Jesus. Anyway bottles haven't been invented yet even if they were I've just had a baby so if you think I'm faffing around Tescos to buy baby milk when I make proper milk in my boobies you can think again I felt a teeny bit sorry for their class teacher - she did try her best to steer them back towards their proper lines but she was laughing so much she didn't really stand a chance. The line about Joseph forgetting the breast pump finished her off - she slid to the floor couldn't get up for laughing
RE: [ozmidwifery] testing
You can always check at http://www.mail-archive.com/ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/maillist.html to see if there was any mail you didnt get. I was wondering are there any statistics for planned unassisted birth in low-risk pregnancies published anywhere? Since midwives are not qualified enough to be independent in Croatia (education at high-school level), and obstetricians are not allowed to practice outside of where they work, some women choose to birth at home, unassisted. I wonder if they are putting themselves and their children more at risk then if they choose to birth in hospitals with high intervention rates. Its not black and white, I know, but it would be interesting to see the research. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] testing I was thinking the same thing Mary, it must just be quiet. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] testing No mail for days. Is it just quiet? MM
[ozmidwifery] High-risk Lovemaking
Hillarious (on the line of Monty Python and the machine that goes ping): http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/HighRiskLovemaking.htm :D Vedrana
RE: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth...
Why is it that animals birth alone and the common opinion for women is that they NEED support during birth? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Honey Acharya Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:18 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth... Maybe we should start hiring Vets rather than Obstetricians as seems to be the norm in our culture right now ;) LOL at the thougth of telling them that you will be hiring your vet as your caregiver when booking in at the hospital. - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth... My kids are watching the ABC pet show tonightQuestion so, whats the greatest risk when your pet is giving birth? Straight from the spunky vets mouthTHE THING THAT PUTS YOUR PET AT THE GREATEST RISK IS THAT PEOPLE TRY AND INTERFERE TOO MUCH Sighand we cant see that fantastic wood for those dastardly trees Tania x -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - Release Date: 18/10/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Very interesting, thank you! Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 4:18 AM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Dear All Further to our discussion on risk The Australian bureau of Statistics has a Mortality Atlas It is not available free but below is a snapshot Compare this with the Australian Mortality data for childbirth (1997-99) Yes that is the latest data. As usual they sit on this report (quite telling as to the importance of birthing women) The 19971999maternal mortality ratio (MMR) was 8.2deaths per 10confinements, compared with 9.1per 10in 19941996. JC Mortality Atlas from the ABS Age Standardised Death Rates (average 1997-2000) Cause Males (deaths per 100,000 persons) Females (deaths per 100,000 persons) Malignant Neoplasms 237.8 146.7 Ischaemic Heart Disease 190.0 119.9 Cerebrovascular diseases 65.8 65.8 Chronic lower respiratory diseases 46.6 23.2 Diabetes mellitus 18.8 13.6 Influenza and pneumonia 13.4 11.4 Accidents 35.6 17.7 Motor vehicle traffic accidents 13.1 5.5 Intentional self harm (suicide) 21.9 5.5 Organic, including symptomatic, mental disorders (includes dementia) 9.3 10.8
RE: [ozmidwifery] risk
I downloaded it from http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/327/7417/745.pdf. It is great, thank you. Puts things into perspective. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:20 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] risk Visit BMJ2003;327:745-748(27September), doi:10.1136/bmj.327.7417.745 Strategies to help patients understand risks. J Paling. I have found his Palings Perspective Scale and P P Palette very useful in explaining the degree of risk to women re screening tests and possible outcomes of various actions. MM Off the top of my head and without philosophical musings, I read thousands of words in dozens of references (just try googling health risk management) and this was the only thing I saw about doing no harm to the patient. Most of it was all about being blamed for harm that might be done and how to minimize being taken to the cleaners. It was not contained in the body of the quoted article by paul bellarmy whose article is interesting. I forget which one it was in, but could probably find it again if needed. Thanks for the compliment. MM What strikes you as particularly interesting about that Mary? I'm very interested in your perspective as you are one of the wisest women I know. warmly, Carolyn
RE: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long)
With bf it's also all the propaganda women are subjected to in their life. Just look at the wording in formula ads. Hypnotic as well, I'd say. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:30 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] We can make a difference (long) MOST of the women I look after postnatally just don't listen or don't believe the advice they recieve - they don't trust their bodies. It's like the birth experience has been owned by someone else, and now they are being asked to trust their body, and that baby knows what he's doing, wanting to be on the breast every hour, for example to get the milk in - and they just don't believe it. I utterly agree, Jo. The entire process of childbearing and rearing no longer belongs to women, we're bystanders at our own births a lot of the time and tested out of our wits throughout pregnancy. The assumption in medical birth is that pregnancy is dangerous and risky so why should bf be any different? Bodies are measured, sampled, quantified from the moment women step in the door and almost all without any evidence of usefulness. I see exactly what you're saying!!! We somehow expect women will go from being virtual science experiments in labour to bfing a baby without problems. If we tell women their bodies don't work to birth then we're also telling them they don't work to bf. It starts way back in the whole process, even when we're children and our faulty female bodies are disgusting in the eyes of most people. I struggle sometimes to find a time and place when a woman has trusted and believed in her body to relate to the ability to birth and bf. I often resort to talking about pooing and breathing which happen really well without a lot of attention being paid to them. Unhindered pooing is a popular theme in my life atm ; ) I even said VAGINA on the radio yesterday which caused the interviewer to do a quick intake of breath hahahaha. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk No luck with Jeff Richardson L. I found this at http://www.deh.gov.au/education/publications/epa/modules/module5.html: Risks Associated with Common Activities the annual chance of dying in a car crash if you drive the average number of kilometres is 1 in 4,000 a cyclist faces an annual risk of dying from pedalling of 1 in 30,000 smokers who commenced smoking at age 15 and smoke one pack a day face a risk of death from lung cancer of 1 in 800 lifetime risk of developing cancer in the USA is 1 in 5 the chance of developing skin cancer in Australia is (women) 1 in 33000 and (men) 1 in 2 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 7:42 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Any chance of something more specific Justine? I cant seem to find him. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2006 9:23 PM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Hi Vedrana and All I think you are referring to the work of Jeff Richardson from Monash University in Melbourne. Yes it is very good stuff. Interestingly I spoke to him (some time ago) and one of his colleagues from the Health research unit at Monash. He understood my links between his work and obstetrics and yet would not do anything, fearful of maintaining his funding (I despair!!). I then spoke to a female colleague at his suggestion and she attacked me for saying childbirth was essentially safe (!!!) And then all but cried about her experience (!!). This is what we come up against when lobbying politicians and decision makers. You should find Jeffs work at www.monash.edu.au and then search for him Kind regards Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Then there is this, along with interesting references: http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7470/849 From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:49 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk No luck with Jeff Richardson L. I found this at http://www.deh.gov.au/education/publications/epa/modules/module5.html: Risks Associated with Common Activities the annual chance of dying in a car crash if you drive the average number of kilometres is 1 in 4,000 a cyclist faces an annual risk of dying from pedalling of 1 in 30,000 smokers who commenced smoking at age 15 and smoke one pack a day face a risk of death from lung cancer of 1 in 800 lifetime risk of developing cancer in the USA is 1 in 5 the chance of developing skin cancer in Australia is (women) 1 in 33000 and (men) 1 in 2 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 7:42 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Any chance of something more specific Justine? I cant seem to find him. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2006 9:23 PM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: Risk Hi Vedrana and All I think you are referring to the work of Jeff Richardson from Monash University in Melbourne. Yes it is very good stuff. Interestingly I spoke to him (some time ago) and one of his colleagues from the Health research unit at Monash. He understood my links between his work and obstetrics and yet would not do anything, fearful of maintaining his funding (I despair!!). I then spoke to a female colleague at his suggestion and she attacked me for saying childbirth was essentially safe (!!!) And then all but cried about her experience (!!). This is what we come up against when lobbying politicians and decision makers. You should find Jeffs work at www.monash.edu.au and then search for him Kind regards Justine
[ozmidwifery] RE: Risk
Once again J: From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:57 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: Risk Once I found an infosheet (I think it was on some Australian web site) with great info on relative risk. It gave a list of everyday risks (car accidents, plane accidents, thunder strike and similar things) in order for consumers to better perceive a risk of some medical procedure. I cant find it anywhere anymore, however. Does anyone know where I could find it? Vedrana
RE: [ozmidwifery] term breech trial - ECV option
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: term breech trial I like this article J: http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/andrea13.html From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] term breech trial - ECV option resending this message as it didn't seem to appear the last time I posted it Lisa Barrett From: Lisa Barrett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] term breech trial - ECV option Well I birthed with a woman on the weekend (and asked her permission before posting this) She had a breech birth in the water. As far as I'm concerned it is a normal vaginal birth and although it was a compound presentation it was very straight forward indeed. Maybe if the attitude of more people is that it's just a variation of normal (and it is) then women wouldn't be so scared. Ultimately it's not up to Obs to do it or not it's up to the women. The thought of using ECV to put the baby into the correct position just a choice. Just as breech position maybe the baby's choice. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Honey Acharya To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] term breech trial - ECV option Here in Townsville Qld some of the Ob's in the Townsville Hospital perform ECV's. David Watson is particulary successful at this and I have seen him perform a few and he seems to have the right touch and technique, the women who had other Ob's try on them firstand then himsaid he was much more gentle and it looked that way too. He has the woman lie on her side slightly and rests his knee behind their back, and using ultrasound on and off to monitor baby's position, then pushes the baby around getting them to either do a forward somersault or backward one. The private Ob's here refuse to do it all together. I noticed they are also performing the EECV trial (EarlyECV) around 33-34 weeks? One of the women I was with was being offerred this optionbut declined preferring to give her baby further time to turn and then at 37-38 weeks when baby was still in the breech position had a successful ECV and went on to have a straightforward normal vaginal birth at 41 weeks. Honey
RE: [ozmidwifery] Inexperiened?
Would the ROTFL reaction to the word inexperienced be appropriate here? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:56 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Inexperiened? First time mother - the inexperienced uterus and vagina may cause a difficult or prolonged delivery. This is one of the causes listed for Congenital Hip dysplasia on the Victoria better health site. MM
RE: [ozmidwifery] intact peri
A little off-topic when you dont do directed pushing you do not tell a woman when to push, but do you tell her when not to push? Or another way to put it does directed pushing only include telling a woman when to push, or telling her when not to push as well? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:59 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] intact peri Hi Paivi, I cannot give you statistics of homebirth as I do not have immediate access to them. I will see if we have any stats on our service that I can access. Just in general, the main way to protect the perineum is not to tell the woman to push, but to allow her to use her natural open glottis pushing, an keep hands off. At home we do not do directed pushing. I cannot speak for birth centres, but their philosophy is much the same. Each midwife does different things, but it is not usual to use compresses or perineal massage during birth. Is that what you have found Jan? I wouldnt put too much weight on the Bastian research as not all of us completed her surveys. I personally have done 3 episiotomies in 24 yrs, but would do one if I thought necessary. Hospital midwives will have to answer the one about epidurals. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Päivi Sent: Monday, 2 October 2006 4:54 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] intact peri Hi all, I am writing an article on episiotomy. I need to know what is the % of intact perineum among homemidwifes or birth centres? This is when the mother is having a natural birth. Does this change if the mother has an epidural and is having the baby in a hospital? What I mean is that how much can the hospital midwife do to save the perineum if the mother has opted for epidural? Is it still mainly to do with the skills of the midwife? Or is it a harder job with a medicated mom? Do you all practise hot compresses, perineal massage with oil (during birth) / perineal support? What is the % of intact peri in a waterbirth? Many questions... Thank you for any ideas or comments. Päivi
RE: [ozmidwifery] Contacting Caroline Flint
Thank you, Andrea! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 6:05 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Contacting Caroline Flint Hi everyone, I've been travelling frantically around the UK this past week and have not had time to read all the ozmid emails. However, I did pick up that some people were trying to reach Caroline Flint. I am sitting here with her now, and she says to tell you all that she has been having enormous trouble with her internet connections and has been living without email on and off for months. However, she can be reached on these email address (vie her office): [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know she would love to hear from you and will be willing to help in whatever way she can. Am just off to the airport now - back in my office on Monday. Regards Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Marketing the Midwife the Doula
I share Päivis opinion, Kelly J. If I could go, Id want to know about effective ways to counter myths and prejudices which originally came from people with authority and which cause people to have serious doubts about the whole deal. From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Päivi Laukkanen Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:43 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Marketing the Midwife the Doula Hi Kelly, Sounds like a great idea, wish I could go... If I would be able to make it would like to know how to do the lobbying for a good cause! One thing I have noticed, that many midwifes or birth centres don't have a professional looking website or a brochure to give out. This is something, what I find essential in today's world. I have thought, that I could use my skills and work with my sister, who is a graphic designer to come up with a template for a birthrelated website and a template for a brochure and a business card. You could also use your own photoes with the template. This would make it so much easier for someone to get all the good looking material even if they don't have the skills for that part of the business. Well, it would take me a while to get it done, but this is just an idea I have had. Päivi - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:57 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Marketing the Midwife the Doula Dear all, As you may have read in my previous emails, I have spoken to some high profile business people of late in regards to the situation with maternity services, particularly with lobbying to government and also marketing the midwife and Doula to sell the idea to the public. The reason I spoke to these people is because I am interested in holding a conference / workshop over a weekend for midwives and Doulas to learn about effectively marketing themselves, improving their networking skills, communication skills and to learn some other essential business skills which I think is badly needed. I would also like to hold a separate session perhaps towards the end of the conference (which wont be of interest to everyone) on lobbying to government and other authoritative bodies in order to get effective recognition for the things that have been lobbied for, for so long. While these business professionals I have spoken to wont have the passion and understanding of what we do, for example the idea of homebirth may not be something they would do, promote or feel safe with, their business skills are very valid and even their views are a wake-up call as to what the public do think when presented with such an idea, no matter how educated they might be. Its time to get out the comfort zone and operate a basic sales rule you were given two ears and one mouth and they need to be used in that ratio. I would now like to do some market research and ask you who would be interested in attending, and also, what you would like to learn about most perhaps even if you wouldnt be able to make it, you could offer three top things you would like to know about how you can get yourselves out there or what you can do. I have had a great response from the few people I have already mentioned this to, so now I would like to put this out and ask you if you would come along and be open to some advice from some amazing, successful business people, and look outside the square to get a fresh insight on things that need to change, need to be improved and things that are on the right track. I anticipate this will either be a full day or two days, perhaps a weekend in Melbourne in the CBD (with a possibility in Brisbane) so those with children can attend. I can strike up a deal with a hotel to get a discount for those coming from interstate. Thoughts? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, but I dont know if there is something more detailed. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. We should copy her marketing strategies. MM Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home thats just a fact which we have to work on.
RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
Thank you J! Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:31 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article Maybe contact Caroline herself through that site? Good luck. She is a very generous person. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, but I dont know if there is something more detailed. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. We should copy her marketing strategies. MM Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home thats just a fact which we have to work on.
RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
Thanks for the other link! I havent contacted Carolin Flint, the politician, luckily J. I just forwarded info to our midwives and I doubt that they were that expedient. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:27 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article Importance: High The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife. Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same name. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, but I dont know if there is something more detailed. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. We should copy her marketing strategies. MM Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home thats just a fact which we have to work on.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Nestle - take note of the last line -
Polman said it will take time to get baby milk sales in China back to the previous level after the collapse that followed Nestle's recall last year because the product exceeded government limits on iodine content. Ouch. I hope theyll never succeed and I hope it will be because more mothers will get a chance to successfully breastfeed. Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:58 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Nestle - take note of the last line - Yes Amy same thing happened to me had to forward it or hit reply to get the full story weird - but I am glad you eventually found the last line J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of adamnamy Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 12:41 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Nestle - take note of the last line - This is a bit odd. I could only read 3 paragraphs in both your emails until I clicked reply to respond when the whole article appearedbelow. Anywayarent they shameless with their aggressive marketing of a second rate product. Amy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:39 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Nestle - take note of the last line - Nestle increases first-half profits Source: VEVEY AP Date: 2006-Aug-24 07:01 AM Nestle SA, the world's biggest food and drink company, has reported an 11 per cent rise in first-half net profit thanks to cost cutting and internal growth despite higher raw material prices. The company, which has brands such as Nescafe, Perrier and Dreyer's, said net profit increased to 4.15 billion Swiss francs ($A4.44 billion) from 3.73 billion francs in 2005, exceeding analyst expectations of about 4.09 billion francs. Nestle, which does not report quarterly earnings figures, said slow demand in Europe was widely offset by a strong performance in emerging markets and the United States. During the first half of 2006 the group delivered excellent levels of growth and profit margin, said Chairman and Chief Executive Peter Brabeck-Letmathe. This was made possible by the strong performance of our food, beverage and nutrition business which generated 6 per cent organic growth. Organic growth is one of the company's main performance yardsticks. This measure, which includes price increases but not the effects of acquisitions, rose to 6.4 per cent, compared with 5.6 per cent in 2005. Analysts had expected 6.3 per cent. Nestle shares closed up 2.3 per cent at 417.75 francs on the Zurich stock exchange. It's the first time in the past few quarters Nestle has clearly surpassed consensus estimates in terms of organic growth and operating margin, Zuercher Kantonalbank analyst Patrik Schwendimann said. The company reiterated that it aims to improve the operating profit margin for the full year at constant currencies. It slightly upgraded its organic growth estimate for the full year, saying it now expects that figure to be on the higher end of its long-standing 5 per cent to 6 per cent target range. Sales grew 11 per cent to 47.14 billion francs from 42.47 billion francs, the company said. Analysts had expected 47.05 billion francs. Earnings before interest and taxes rose 14.5 per cent to 6.05 billion francs from 5.29 billion francs. The company is considering another share buyback after the current 3 billion franc program, which is almost finished, Chief Financial Officer Paul Polman said in a conference call. If nothing extraordinary happens, there is no reason why we couldn't continue with buybacks, he said. Polman said that Nestle was not looking at major acquisitions at the moment. He said the company will pay more than 1 billion francs later this year for several small-sized acquisitions that were arranged in the last six months. Included is the purchase of the US-based weight-management company Jenny Craig for around $US600 million. Polman said it will take time to get baby milk sales in China back to the previous level after the collapse that followed Nestle's recall last year because the product exceeded government limits on iodine content.
[ozmidwifery] transition
Does anyone know of any good articles or books on transition? Ive been asked for this info by one midwife in Croatia, for their Midwifery News magazine. Thanks in advance! Vedrana
RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage
No fundal pressure, no lithotomy position, no rushing. From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ken Ward Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:30 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage Nice slow stretching as the head descends. Good nutrition -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Päivi Laukkanen Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 7:37 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage Hi everyone, In my store we sell an organic oil by Weleda for perineal massage. ( almond oil, wheat germ oil, natural essential oils.) Many women seem to think, that if they simply apply this oil, it will prevent tears. I am planning to add some info on perineal massage on our website and also prepare a handout to give with the oil. I would appreciate any good links on this subject and answers to these questions: What do you consider the main factors, when preventing tears and episiotomies? (other than perineal massage) Where can I find research on this subject or effectiveness of perineal massage? Päivi
RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage
As for research, I dont know if this is still relevant: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=PubMedlist_uids=10076134dopt=Abstract Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Mar;180(3 Pt 1):593-600. Related Articles, Links Randomized controlled trial of prevention of perineal trauma by perineal massage during pregnancy. Labrecque M, Eason E, Marcoux S, Lemieux F, Pinault JJ, Feldman P, Laperriere L. Department of Family Medicine, Laval University, Quebec City, Canada. OBJECTIVE: The aim of the study was to evaluate the effectiveness of perineal massage during pregnancy for the prevention of perineal trauma at birth.Study Design: Pregnant women with (n = 493) and without (n = 1034) a previous vaginal birth from 5 hospitals in the province of Quebec, Canada, participated in this single-blind, randomized, controlled trial. All participants received oral and written information on the prevention of perineal trauma. Women in the experimental groups were requested to perform a 10-minute perineal massage daily from the 34th or 35th week of pregnancy until delivery. RESULTS: Among participants without a previous vaginal birth, 24.3% (100/411) from the perineal massage group and 15.1% (63/417) from the control group were delivered vaginally with an intact perineum, for a 9.2% absolute difference (95% confidence interval 3.8%-14.6%). The incidence of delivery with an intact perineum increased with compliance with regular practice of perineal massage (chi2 for trend 13.2, P = 0.0003). Among women with a previous vaginal birth, 34.9% (82/235) and 32.4% (78/241) in the massage and control groups, respectively, were delivered with an intact perineum, for an absolute difference of 2.5% (95% confidence interval -6.0% to 11.0%). There were no differences between the groups in the frequency of sutured vulvar and vaginal tears, women's sense of control, and satisfaction with the delivery experience. CONCLUSION: Perineal massage is an effective approach to increasing the chance of delivery with an intact perineum for women with a first vaginal delivery but not for women with a previous vaginal birth. Publication Types: Clinical Trial Multicenter Study Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 10076134 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of jo Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:48 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage As she feels the burning sensation on the peri encourage her to stop pushing and pant ha ha ha haor blow to allow the uterus to expel the baby without added her own force to it - usually saying stop pushing isnt enough and can be confusing - so to start panting or blowing yourself will give her the cue to follow. jo From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ken Ward Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 6:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage Nice slow stretching as the head descends. Good nutrition -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Päivi Laukkanen Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 7:37 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage Hi everyone, In my store we sell an organic oil by Weleda for perineal massage. ( almond oil, wheat germ oil, natural essential oils.) Many women seem to think, that if they simply apply this oil, it will prevent tears. I am planning to add some info on perineal massage on our website and also prepare a handout to give with the oil. I would appreciate any good links on this subject and answers to these questions: What do you consider the main factors, when preventing tears and episiotomies? (other than perineal massage) Where can I find research on this subject or effectiveness of perineal massage? Päivi
RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage
Then there are these: http://www.update-software.com/Abstracts/AB005123.htm http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1121301 http://www.childbirth.org/articles/massageref.html http://www.intermid.co.uk/cgi-bin/go.pl/library/contents.html?uid=870journal_uid=12 Antenatal perineal massage: Part 1 (64kb) Clare Gomme , Mary Sheridan , Susan Bewley British Journal of Midwifery, Vol. 11, Iss. 12, 04 Dec 2003, pp 707 - 711 Randomized controlled trials have provided evidence that antenatal perineal massage is effective in reducing perineal trauma. The provision of information on antenatal perineal massage was introduced as a new service for women and a series of training sessions were held to teach perineal massage to midwives working in antenatal clinics. This article includes a literature review on perineal massage and an evaluation of the massage training. Midwives views on perineal massage and the training they received were obtained through questionnaires and focus group discussions. The response to perineal massage was varied, with some midwives actively promoting the service while others had no interest in the project and did not give information on antenatal perineal massage to their women. Although just under half of all eligible women received information on perineal massage, an audit of perineal trauma rates found a 6% reduction in perineal trauma since the introduction of the new service. You can try Google and type in: perineal massage trauma. From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:13 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage As for research, I dont know if this is still relevant: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=PubMedlist_uids=10076134dopt=Abstract Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Mar;180(3 Pt 1):593-600. Related Articles, Links Randomized controlled trial of prevention of perineal trauma by perineal massage during pregnancy. Labrecque M, Eason E, Marcoux S, Lemieux F, Pinault JJ, Feldman P, Laperriere L. Department of Family Medicine, Laval University, Quebec City, Canada. OBJECTIVE: The aim of the study was to evaluate the effectiveness of perineal massage during pregnancy for the prevention of perineal trauma at birth.Study Design: Pregnant women with (n = 493) and without (n = 1034) a previous vaginal birth from 5 hospitals in the province of Quebec, Canada, participated in this single-blind, randomized, controlled trial. All participants received oral and written information on the prevention of perineal trauma. Women in the experimental groups were requested to perform a 10-minute perineal massage daily from the 34th or 35th week of pregnancy until delivery. RESULTS: Among participants without a previous vaginal birth, 24.3% (100/411) from the perineal massage group and 15.1% (63/417) from the control group were delivered vaginally with an intact perineum, for a 9.2% absolute difference (95% confidence interval 3.8%-14.6%). The incidence of delivery with an intact perineum increased with compliance with regular practice of perineal massage (chi2 for trend 13.2, P = 0.0003). Among women with a previous vaginal birth, 34.9% (82/235) and 32.4% (78/241) in the massage and control groups, respectively, were delivered with an intact perineum, for an absolute difference of 2.5% (95% confidence interval -6.0% to 11.0%). There were no differences between the groups in the frequency of sutured vulvar and vaginal tears, women's sense of control, and satisfaction with the delivery experience. CONCLUSION: Perineal massage is an effective approach to increasing the chance of delivery with an intact perineum for women with a first vaginal delivery but not for women with a previous vaginal birth. Publication Types: Clinical Trial Multicenter Study Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 10076134 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of jo Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:48 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage As she feels the burning sensation on the peri encourage her to stop pushing and pant ha ha ha haor blow to allow the uterus to expel the baby without added her own force to it - usually saying stop pushing isnt enough and can be confusing - so to start panting or blowing yourself will give her the cue to follow. jo From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ken Ward Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 6:30 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] perineal massage Nice slow stretching as the head descends. Good nutrition -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Päivi Laukkanen Sent: Wednesday, 17 May
RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question
Could you mail me the link to the article, please? I'm surprised that such advice didn't come with all the extra info you just provided. I didn't know about the 7% and 14% birth weight loss, never researched it. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Ward Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:12 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question Got onto 'kellymom'. They are suggesting you wake baby 2/24 during the day and 4/24 at night. This does not sit well with me. Babies need a minium of 6 feeds in 24hrs, and can feed hourly if they want, but I don't believe waking them is such a good idea, unless there is a reason such as poor weight gain, jaundice, lack of wet nappies. Kellymom also states babies loose 7% of birth weight. They can loose double this, and one should look at output and baby's behaviour and mum's supply before jumping in. I didn't bother further with this site. Maureen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2006 3:24 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question Could it be that you came down with both mastitis and some other infection, which your son caught? www.kellymom.com is a great site on breastfeeding, if you want to research further. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question My episodes of mastitis got less frequent after the first 3 months but I probably averaged at least one mastitis every 6 months for the entire time I was feeding (2.5yrs). Though my later mastitis were generally breast injury induced rather than infection and easily treated with homeopathics. At 12:36 PM +1000 25/4/06, Nicole Carver wrote: Hi, Normally you should breastfeed from both breasts with mastitis. The only exception, and I may stand corrected, is strep infection. The breast is very red, not your typical mastitis. It is very painful and you feel quite ill. I have not seen mastitis at 22 months. It might be precipitated by something else, as usually the feeding would be fairly trouble free at that stage, I would imagine. When a woman has mastitis the milk needs to be kept moving. Babies are best for that! Expressing is really just the tip of the ice berg. A little blood does not hurt. If the baby vomits a little blood there is no harm done. Obviously if there is a lot it would be best to discontinue for 24 hours or so. The breast must be emptied though, or you run the risk of abscess formation. Sometimes the antibiotics taken by mum will upset the babies stomach. However, I suppose they are also protecting them to some extent. Regards, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:24 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question where i work we encourage women to express on the side that they are infected and continue feeding on the other side until the infection clears, the infection should be treated by antibiotics and if severe admission to hospital for iv antibugs. if the breastmilk has blood in it we discourage any breastfeeding whatsoever and get the mother to express all feeds until the infection passes she then can resume b/feeding when she feels better but ensure that the breast is always empty after feeding. regards sharon - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Megan Larry To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question Can a mother pass on her infecton to her breastfeeding child when she has mastitis? Its just that I had what to me was obvious mastitis on Sat, quite a decent case of it, very sore breast, redness, fever, vomiting, quite ill. Still recovering on Monday when my breastfeeding 22 mth old developed a fever and vomiting. This morning he is quite recovered but no doubt will need a very quiet day still. So, is this a coincidence, or can the child become infected too? We were both rundown form a busy few weeks, so the rest was well needed, just wanted it without the misery. Thanks in advance Megan -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question
Could it be that you came down with both mastitis and some other infection, which your son caught? www.kellymom.com is a great site on breastfeeding, if you want to research further. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question My episodes of mastitis got less frequent after the first 3 months but I probably averaged at least one mastitis every 6 months for the entire time I was feeding (2.5yrs). Though my later mastitis were generally breast injury induced rather than infection and easily treated with homeopathics. At 12:36 PM +1000 25/4/06, Nicole Carver wrote: Hi, Normally you should breastfeed from both breasts with mastitis. The only exception, and I may stand corrected, is strep infection. The breast is very red, not your typical mastitis. It is very painful and you feel quite ill. I have not seen mastitis at 22 months. It might be precipitated by something else, as usually the feeding would be fairly trouble free at that stage, I would imagine. When a woman has mastitis the milk needs to be kept moving. Babies are best for that! Expressing is really just the tip of the ice berg. A little blood does not hurt. If the baby vomits a little blood there is no harm done. Obviously if there is a lot it would be best to discontinue for 24 hours or so. The breast must be emptied though, or you run the risk of abscess formation. Sometimes the antibiotics taken by mum will upset the babies stomach. However, I suppose they are also protecting them to some extent. Regards, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:24 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question where i work we encourage women to express on the side that they are infected and continue feeding on the other side until the infection clears, the infection should be treated by antibiotics and if severe admission to hospital for iv antibugs. if the breastmilk has blood in it we discourage any breastfeeding whatsoever and get the mother to express all feeds until the infection passes she then can resume b/feeding when she feels better but ensure that the breast is always empty after feeding. regards sharon - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Megan Larry To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mastitis question Can a mother pass on her infecton to her breastfeeding child when she has mastitis? Its just that I had what to me was obvious mastitis on Sat, quite a decent case of it, very sore breast, redness, fever, vomiting, quite ill. Still recovering on Monday when my breastfeeding 22 mth old developed a fever and vomiting. This morning he is quite recovered but no doubt will need a very quiet day still. So, is this a coincidence, or can the child become infected too? We were both rundown form a busy few weeks, so the rest was well needed, just wanted it without the misery. Thanks in advance Megan -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] meconium staining
Title: Lactate: Creatinine ratio in babies with thin meconium staining of amniotic fluid Could someone please interpret this for those of us without medical background? Babies that where not full term (36-38) were also included in this study, and I though meconium staining for them more indicative of perinatal asphyxia than for babies at term? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 8:34 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] meconium staining Interesting article which just showa how confused we are about the meaning of mec stained liquor. MM . Lactate: Creatinine ratio in babies with thin meconium staining of amniotic fluid Rishi KANT Ojha , Saroj K Singh , Sanjay Batra , V Sreenivas and Jacob M Puliyel BMC Pediatrics 2006, 6:13doi:10.1186/1471-2431-6-13 Published 20April2006 Abstract (provisional) Background ACOG states meconium stained amniotic fluid (MSAF) as one of the historical indicators of perinatal asphyxia. Thick meconium along with other indicators is used to identify babies with severe intrapartum asphyxia. Lactate creatinine ratio (L: C ratio) of 0.64 or higher in first passed urine of babies suffering severe intrapartum asphyxia has been shown to predict Hypoxic Ischaemic Encephalopathy (HIE). Literature review shows that meconium is passed in distress and thin meconium results from mixing and dilution over time, which may be hours to days. Thin meconium may thus be used as an indicator of antepartum asphyxia. We tested L: C ratios in a group of babies born through thin and thick meconium, and for comparison, in a group of babies without meconium at birth. Methods 86 consecutive newborns, 36 to 42 weeks of gestation, with meconium staining of liquor, were recruited for the study. 52 voided urine within 6 hours of birth; of these 27 had thick meconium and 25 had thin meconium at birth. 42 others, who did not have meconium or any other signs of asphyxia at birth provided controls. Lactate and creatinine levels in urine were tested by standard enzymatic methods in the three groups. Results Lactate values are highest in the thin MSAF group followed by the thick MSAF and controls. Creatinine was lowest in the thin MSAF, followed by thick MSAF and controls. Normal babies had an average L: C ratio of 0.13 (+/- 0.09). L: C ratio was more among thin MSAF babies (4.3 +/- 11.94) than thick MSAF babies (0.35 +/- 0.35). Median L: C ratio was also higher in the thin MSAF group. Variation in the values of these parameters is observed to be high in the thin MSAF group as compared to other groups. L: C ratio was above the cutoff of 0.64 of Huang et al in 40% of those with thin meconium. 2 of these developed signs of HIE with convulsions (HIE Sarnat and Sarnat Stage II) during hospital stay. One had L: C Ratio of 93 and the other of 58.6. A smaller proportion (20%) of those with thick meconium had levels above the cutoff and 2 developed HIE and convulsions with L: C ratio of 1.25 and 1.1 respectively. Conclusion In evolving a cutoff of L: C ratios that would be highly sensitive and specific (0.64), Huang et al studied it in a series of babies with severe intrapartum asphyxia. Our study shows that the specificity may not be as good if babies born through thin meconium are also included. L: C ratios are much higher in babies with thin meconium. It may be that meconium alone is not a good indicator of asphyxia and the risk of HIE. However, if the presence of meconium implies asphyxia then perhaps a higher cut-off than 0.64 is needed. L: C ratios should be tested in a larger sample that includes babies with thin meconium, before L: C ratios can be applied universally. (my emphasis. mm)
RE: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push
Miriam, To another Carolyn, from the mail below. Sorry if I confused you. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of safetsleep international Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:40 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push vedrana did you intend to send this to me or another carolyn somewhere else? rgds miriam - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Dear Carolyn, I'd like to copy your mail to one web forum (mainly about pregnancy, birth, childhood) in Croatia. Its address is www.roda.hr/rodaphpBB2. Would that be OK? Warm regards, Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of safetsleep international Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:12 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push wow...'special lady'in my humble experience there are not many who have grown to grasp this level of intellectual and experiential awareness and intelligence ...i will be saving this email and reading it and the references for some time...thankyou warm regards miram - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Hello Kristen, From the literature, uncontrollable urges to push before full dilatation of the woman's cervix and descent of the baby's head are certainly associated with babies who are in a posterior position, that is back of the baby's head, the bone called the occiput, pressing against the woman's sacrum and putting pressure on her bowel 'prematurely'. That is the accepted, physical version of events. Physical interventions to change the baby's position include, but are not limited to: *position changes of all kinds mostly during labour surges, *such as leaning forward, *leaning backward, *opening the ischial spines with various strategies such *as assisting with inwards pressure on the alae of the sacrum; * lifting the trochanters when the woman is squatting (that takes some doing but is a wonderful opener) *lunges with one leg raised on a chair, squatting etc; *the flapping fish (yoga) position which is lying down on the side the baby's back is on, with leg and arm behind, so the person is more on their abdomen - also called the recovery position; lunging as before, but with the woman's body leaning posteriorally into the side the baby is on to reduce space and encourage baby to rotate to the front. *Another excellent strategy is (the midwife or doctor) using the fingers of one hand in the woman's vagina to construct an artificial pelvic floor to help the baby rotate to the front. This is most useful with a greater degree of dilatation as the person needs to have their hand directly on the baby's head to put the counter pressure on (gently and firmly) for increased flexion and rotation of the baby's head. Of course, the woman needs to be informed and agree and be in a position (birth stool is great for this) to enable the midwife/doctor to do this. As we know, we are not merely physical, a bit of material, like a brick or plank of timber, we are a breathing, feeling, moving, social entity. We are more, much more than that which can be cut or fashioned into an article of usefulness. From another point of view, examining our human self, we are an amazing brain and nervous system network, whose function is predominately based on a lifetime collection of learned patterns, concepts and expressions overlaying a genetic intelligence of predetermined processes and capabilites, such as giving birth. Neuroscience. neuropsychology and endocrinology now tells us that emotions (chemicals) are what fires the feeling/vibratory/electrical brain/nervous system into action (which affects/is expressed in the muscular etc reactions/behaviour of the whole body) and the conscious (spiritual) self, that bit of us that thinks in the moment and is untouchable and invisible, is the thinking director of the whole brain/body mind and action, This director is located in the prefrontal cortex of the brain. From my observation and experiences, an uncontrolled urge to push is often associated with thought patterns such as 'wanting it over' and the associated emotional response (through the amygdala) is a release of a chemical flooding, that matchs that pattern of thought. The brain and nervous system gets the chemical and electrical message, for example 'to get it over' and the body starts the pressure before it is really ready to do so. Doing physical things can help move the woman's focus and attention from what is wrong to what she wants to happen. In this instance, moving from
RE: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix
You might want to check these out: http://www.mail-archive.com/ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/msg21645.html, http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/cervixlearning.html and http://www.mail-archive.com/ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/msg21659.html Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sadie Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:49 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix Hi, Does anyone still have the link that was on Ozmidwifery recently about feeling for your own cervix? I thought I'd saved it - but I hadn't. Thanks, Sadie
RE: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push
Dear Carolyn, I'd like to copy your mail to one web forum (mainly about pregnancy, birth, childhood) in Croatia. Its address is www.roda.hr/rodaphpBB2. Would that be OK? Warm regards, Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of safetsleep international Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:12 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push wow...'special lady'in my humble experience there are not many who have grown to grasp this level of intellectual and experiential awareness and intelligence ...i will be saving this email and reading it and the references for some time...thankyou warm regards miram - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Hello Kristen, From the literature, uncontrollable urges to push before full dilatation of the woman's cervix and descent of the baby's head are certainly associated with babies who are in a posterior position, that is back of the baby's head, the bone called the occiput, pressing against the woman's sacrum and putting pressure on her bowel 'prematurely'. That is the accepted, physical version of events. Physical interventions to change the baby's position include, but are not limited to: *position changes of all kinds mostly during labour surges, *such as leaning forward, *leaning backward, *opening the ischial spines with various strategies such *as assisting with inwards pressure on the alae of the sacrum; * lifting the trochanters when the woman is squatting (that takes some doing but is a wonderful opener) *lunges with one leg raised on a chair, squatting etc; *the flapping fish (yoga) position which is lying down on the side the baby's back is on, with leg and arm behind, so the person is more on their abdomen - also called the recovery position; lunging as before, but with the woman's body leaning posteriorally into the side the baby is on to reduce space and encourage baby to rotate to the front. *Another excellent strategy is (the midwife or doctor) using the fingers of one hand in the woman's vagina to construct an artificial pelvic floor to help the baby rotate to the front. This is most useful with a greater degree of dilatation as the person needs to have their hand directly on the baby's head to put the counter pressure on (gently and firmly) for increased flexion and rotation of the baby's head. Of course, the woman needs to be informed and agree and be in a position (birth stool is great for this) to enable the midwife/doctor to do this. As we know, we are not merely physical, a bit of material, like a brick or plank of timber, we are a breathing, feeling, moving, social entity. We are more, much more than that which can be cut or fashioned into an article of usefulness. From another point of view, examining our human self, we are an amazing brain and nervous system network, whose function is predominately based on a lifetime collection of learned patterns, concepts and expressions overlaying a genetic intelligence of predetermined processes and capabilites, such as giving birth. Neuroscience. neuropsychology and endocrinology now tells us that emotions (chemicals) are what fires the feeling/vibratory/electrical brain/nervous system into action (which affects/is expressed in the muscular etc reactions/behaviour of the whole body) and the conscious (spiritual) self, that bit of us that thinks in the moment and is untouchable and invisible, is the thinking director of the whole brain/body mind and action, This director is located in the prefrontal cortex of the brain. From my observation and experiences, an uncontrolled urge to push is often associated with thought patterns such as 'wanting it over' and the associated emotional response (through the amygdala) is a release of a chemical flooding, that matchs that pattern of thought. The brain and nervous system gets the chemical and electrical message, for example 'to get it over' and the body starts the pressure before it is really ready to do so. Doing physical things can help move the woman's focus and attention from what is wrong to what she wants to happen. In this instance, moving from 'wanting it over' to turning the baby or the baby being born. To help the physical actions, (which, because of the neural networks throughout the body, also changes the mind) the woman can be helped to say and focus on what will actually help labour progress appropriately at the right time. Concerted and repeated efforts are necessary to change the thought patterns and emotional response, especially when we are in challenging situations and labour is one of the most challenging. If the woman can be helped to change her focus and attention from pain or
RE: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push
Thank you :)! I opened a new topic at http://www.roda.hr/rodaphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23139highlight=, under the section Birth. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heartlogic Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:25 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Absolutely Vedrana, if you think it would be helpful. I am delighted to be asked. Thanks, :-) If you find after putting it up on the webforum, anyone would like to ask questions or if anything is not clear, I'm more than happy for people to contact me and see if I can help further. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] My phone number is 0418 428 430 I'm co editing a book about Birth Territory - my chapter is all about mother (plus father, family, midwives/other health professionals, culture etc) as 'territory' of the fetus. so I'm doing lots of thinking/reading/pondering etc about all these aspects/ideas/concepts etc. I'm actually on time off to write as I haven't been able to get it to it with the work/processes/development involved with setting up and the first year (will be on 4th July!) of the wonderful, spectacular, normal, healthy physiologically enhancing birthspace of Belmont Birthing Service. What joy that is/has been. So good to be able to prove/demonstrate that if a woman understands and welcomes the process of birth and has had an opportunity to explore what it all means to her; you leave the woman and her process alone, while providing a loving, kind and supportive, individualised environment, birth happens and happens beautifully, joyfully and with the woman in charge of her process. What a difference that makes. The midwives are ecstatic, the women are happy and intact and the babies are smiling and relaxed. warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Dear Carolyn, I'd like to copy your mail to one web forum (mainly about pregnancy, birth, childhood) in Croatia. Its address is www.roda.hr/rodaphpBB2. Would that be OK? Warm regards, Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of safetsleep international Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:12 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push wow...'special lady'in my humble experience there are not many who have grown to grasp this level of intellectual and experiential awareness and intelligence ...i will be saving this email and reading it and the references for some time...thankyou warm regards miram - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] premature urge to push Hello Kristen, From the literature, uncontrollable urges to push before full dilatation of the woman's cervix and descent of the baby's head are certainly associated with babies who are in a posterior position, that is back of the baby's head, the bone called the occiput, pressing against the woman's sacrum and putting pressure on her bowel 'prematurely'. That is the accepted, physical version of events. Physical interventions to change the baby's position include, but are not limited to: *position changes of all kinds mostly during labour surges, *such as leaning forward, *leaning backward, *opening the ischial spines with various strategies such *as assisting with inwards pressure on the alae of the sacrum; * lifting the trochanters when the woman is squatting (that takes some doing but is a wonderful opener) *lunges with one leg raised on a chair, squatting etc; *the flapping fish (yoga) position which is lying down on the side the baby's back is on, with leg and arm behind, so the person is more on their abdomen - also called the recovery position; lunging as before, but with the woman's body leaning posteriorally into the side the baby is on to reduce space and encourage baby to rotate to the front. *Another excellent strategy is (the midwife or doctor) using the fingers of one hand in the woman's vagina to construct an artificial pelvic floor to help the baby rotate to the front. This is most useful with a greater degree of dilatation as the person needs to have their hand directly on the baby's head to put the counter pressure on (gently and firmly) for increased flexion and rotation of the baby's head. Of course, the woman needs to be informed and agree and be in a position (birth stool is great for this) to enable the midwife/doctor to do this. As we know, we are not merely physical, a bit of material, like a brick or plank of timber, we are a breathing, feeling, moving, social entity. We are more, much more than that which can be cut or fashioned
[ozmidwifery] protest
Dear listers, I vaguely remember reading (or hearing?) about protests in some maternity hospitals where people went into a hospital and sat there until the hospital policy was changed. I think it was about support persons at birth. Can anyone point me in the right direction for more information? A couple of us got really frustrated recently when a friend of ours gave birth, her baby developed jaundice, had to get phototherapy and she was not allowed to breastfeed because of a hospital policy. When she insisted and complained that expressing breastmilk is devastating her nipples, she got an answer that, since she is so adamant about breastfeeding and they highly appreciate that, she would be allowed to go in and breastfeed. And she was. Other babies were not that lucky, they get to get donated formula, obviously their mothers where not adamant enough (duh?). So an idea of a protest came up, so that all babies are allowed to breastfeed and that all mothers are informed of benefits of breastfeeding jaundiced babies, and now were looking for more info. While Im at it, you might be interested in reading what midwives think about giving birth in Croatia at http://www.udrugaprimalja.hr/content/view/73/49/. Vedrana
[ozmidwifery] vazno
http://www.nmc-uk.org/aFrameDisplay.aspx?DocumentID=1446
RE: [ozmidwifery] vazno
Sorry about this, I wanted to forward it, not to mail it back. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:52 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] vazno http://www.nmc-uk.org/aFrameDisplay.aspx?DocumentID=1446
FW: [ozmidwifery] Water for BF babies
Maybe it will work this time: From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:32 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Water for BF babies 1. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends breastfeeding According to the AAP, Human milk is species-specific, and all substitute feeding preparations differ markedly from it, making human milk uniquely superior for infant feeding. Exclusive breastfeeding is the reference or normative model against which all alternative feeding methods must be measured with regard to growth, health, development, and all other short- and long-term outcomes. In addition, human milk-fed premature infants receive significant benefits with respect to host protection and improved developmental outcomes compared with formula-fed premature infants... Pediatricians and parents should be aware that exclusive breastfeeding is sufficient to support optimal growth and development for approximately the first 6 months of life and provides continuing protection against diarrhea and respiratory tract infection. Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child. A.A.P. Breastfeeding Policy Statement: Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk Pediatrics Vol. 115 No. 2 February 2005 (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496) 2. http://rehydrate.org/breastfeed/faq-exclusive-breastfeeding.htm FAQ SHEET 5 Reprinted June 2004 Healthy newborns enter the world well hydrated and remain so if breastfed exclusively, day and night, even in the hottest, driest climates. Nevertheless, the practice of giving infants water during the first six months-the recommended period for exclusive breastfeeding-persists in many parts of the world, with dire nutritional and health consequences. This FAQ discusses these consequences and the role of breastfeeding in meeting an infant's water requirements. Why is exclusive breastfeeding recommended for the first six months? International guidelines recommend exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months based on scientific evidence of the benefits for infant survival, growth, and development. Breastmilk provides all the energy and nutrients that an infant needs during the first six months. Exclusive breastfeeding reduces infant deaths caused by common childhood illnesses such as diarrhea and pneumonia, hastens recovery during illness, and helps space births. Is early supplementation with water a common practice? And if so, why? The practice of giving water and other liquids such as teas, sugar water, and juices to breastfed infants in the first months is widespread throughout the world, as illustrated in Figure 1. This practice often begins in the first month of life. Research conducted in the outskirts of Lima, Peru showed that 83 percent of infants received water and teas in the first month. Studies in several communities of the Gambia, the Philippines, Egypt, and Guatemala reported that over 60 percent of newborns were given sugar water and/or teas. The reasons given for water supplementation of infants vary across cultures. Some of the most common reasons are: * necessary for life * quenches thirst * relieves pain (from colic or earache) * prevents and treats colds and constipation * soothes fretfulness Cultural and religious beliefs also influence water supplementation in early infancy. Proverbs passed down from generation to generation advise mothers to give babies water. Water may be viewed as the source of life-a spiritual and physiological necessity. Some cultures regard the act of offering water to the newborn as a way of welcoming the child into the world. The advice of health care providers also influences the use of water in many communities and hospitals. For example, a study in a Ghanaian city found that 93 percent of midwives thought that water should be given to all infants beginning on the first day of life. In Egypt many nurses advised mothers to give sugar water after delivery. How do breastfed babies get enough water? Depending on temperature, humidity, and the infant's weight and level of activity, the average daily fluid requirement for healthy infants ranges from 80-100 ml/kg in the first week of life to 140-160 ml/kg between 3-6 months. These amounts are available from breastmilk alone if breastfeeding is exclusive and unrestricted (on-demand day and night) for two reasons: Breastmilk is 88 percent water. The water content of breastmilk consumed by an exclusively breastfed baby meets the water requirements for infants and provides a considerable margin of safety. Even though a newborn gets little water in the thick yellowish first milk (colostrum), no additional water is necessary because a baby is born with extra water. Milk with higher water content usually comes
RE: [ozmidwifery] the Devine Response!
concerned primarily for the health of mother and baby and less concerned about whether or not the mother has a fulfilling experience in childbirth Yeah. If baby is alive, and mommy is alive, what else in the world could they want? Nothing else matters. Talk about holistic care. Just forget what you wanted, all that matters is that you and your child are alive. Youll forget about the rest the minute your child is born. Heard all those things (I dont want to be rude and use another word) before. From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of diane Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:21 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] the Devine Response! Hi All, Here is Miranda's response to my letter!! Im thinking about mine... Cant really swear at her can I? Dear Diane: As you know Prof Tracey is not an impartial observer and I am not the only person who does not consider her research to be proof of anything except the perfectly obvious proposition that you get better outcomes from low-risk births. RE a) No one is talking about rushing to RNS, just not duplicating resources at Gosford and Wyong. Ideally every woman would have a natural delivery with midwives but when things go wrong or she is desperate for pain relief, she and her child are entitled to the very best medical intervention possible. I want women and their babies to have that choice, and I don't like to see the state giovernment get off the hook on their responsibiliy to provide that care, as happened with Camden. I have written on this topic for ten years. I have done my research. I have approached the issue as an independent observer, concerned primarily for the health of mother and baby and less concerned about whether or not the mother has a fulfilling experience in childbirth or whether the supposedly patriarchal medical establishment has too much power. Miranda Devine The Sydney Morning Herald The Sun-Herald 201 Sussex Street Sydney 2000 02 9282-1102
[ozmidwifery] RE: I told you so!
Now it comes to breastfeeding: http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=215 This story is just too sad and s common, around the world, I think L. Vedrana From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:34 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: I told you so! http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=214 Someone: Well, I remember what you told me, Have a homebirth but I was too scared So I had a hospital birth anyway. Im really glad because if I hadnt been at the hospital my baby wouldnt have survived. Hathor the Cowgoddess: Oh? Howd it go? Someone: They had to induce me two weeks early. They were worried about stuff. I ended up needing an epidural and my labor just stopped! So I had a c-section Im just so grateful that my baby was okay. You know the weird part? The baby was fine, weight: fine, fluid: fine. I dont know why they wanted to induce in the first place. Hathor the Cowgoddess: Gulp. Remind me again, what was your due date? Someone: Thanksgiving. Why? Hathor the Cowgoddess: Um No reason.
RE: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf
Yes, I searched the net for some info and found out that placenta produces estrogen. After birth, high levels of estrogen inhibit milk production. Your question is quite interesting. Really, would such an operation be advisable on post menopausal women? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:47 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf Actually my understanding is that estrogen levels would be FAR higher at birth (and presumably soon after) than once breastfeeding is established. Certainly my own estrogen level was post menopausal during breastfeeding. That said surely post menopausal women have surgery too? At 2:57 PM +0100 21/2/06, Vedrana Valãiç wrote: How come episiotomies heal then? Are oestrogen levels then higher than later on? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:43 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf I'd definitely go to a plastic surgeon... an ob does baby and mum stuff... this seems to me like something more cosmetic ( not saying it like she's only getting it done for looks!!) Jo On 21/02/2006, at 7:21 PM, Janet Fraser wrote: She's been told by several Obs that the lower oestrogen in her system mean her vagina won't heal. It sounds like a crock to me. I've seen bf blamed for most things wrong with babies and mothers but this was a new one to me. :( - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf Maybe I am being daft but what effect do lactational hormones have on surgery? I would also suggest another opinion or 2 - perhaps to a plastic surgeon also. Maxine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] pelvic floor information
I think there was some research that c-section does not prevent incontinence, as previously thought. Would that be of any help, Kylie? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Chapman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:25 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] pelvic floor information Skipping isn't bad either if you don't have a trampoline on tap. cheers Judy --- Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ideally we all can benefit from pelvis floor excercises, including men. My dad had his prostate removed recently for cancer and I told him to start and excercise his pelvic floor pre-surgery to help with his recovery. He told his specialist what I said and he thought it was an excellent idea. Interestingly my Dad noticed improvement with his weeing just from this and did have a good recovery. Anyway, just my two bits, Megan PS trampolines are an excellent way to find out how strong your pelvic floor is, or isn't as you may find out. Hehehehe _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kylie Carberry Sent: Wednesday, 22 February 2006 4:03 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] pelvic floor information Hi All, I was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction with some research I am doing for a story on the importance of pelvic floor exercises. A lot of women are led to believe - I guess, by scalpel-happy OB's - that a weakened pelvic floor can be avoided a by having a c-section. I recall, some time last year, reading an article disproving this theory, but, of course cannot remember where I read it. If there is anyone who can help me out here, I would greatly appreciate if you could let me know. Any other thoughts on the topic would be welcomed also. Best wishes Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health: Dedicated to providing current health news and information http://au.health.yahoo.com/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] I told you so!
http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=214 Someone: Well, I remember what you told me, Have a homebirth but I was too scared So I had a hospital birth anyway. Im really glad because if I hadnt been at the hospital my baby wouldnt have survived. Hathor the Cowgoddess: Oh? Howd it go? Someone: They had to induce me two weeks early. They were worried about stuff. I ended up needing an epidural and my labor just stopped! So I had a c-section Im just so grateful that my baby was okay. You know the weird part? The baby was fine, weight: fine, fluid: fine. I dont know why they wanted to induce in the first place. Hathor the Cowgoddess: Gulp. Remind me again, what was your due date? Someone: Thanksgiving. Why? Hathor the Cowgoddess: Um No reason.
RE: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf
How come episiotomies heal then? Are oestrogen levels then higher than later on? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:43 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf I'd definitely go to a plastic surgeon... an ob does baby and mum stuff... this seems to me like something more cosmetic ( not saying it like she's only getting it done for looks!!) Jo On 21/02/2006, at 7:21 PM, Janet Fraser wrote: She's been told by several Obs that the lower oestrogen in her system mean her vagina won't heal. It sounds like a crock to me. I've seen bf blamed for most things wrong with babies and mothers but this was a new one to me. :( - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] repair surgery and bf Maybe I am being daft but what effect do lactational hormones have on surgery? I would also suggest another opinion or 2 - perhaps to a plastic surgeon also. Maxine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] High babies
Sorry to bother you again, but what do OFP and HTH mean? (English is not my mother language, and I am not of a medical profession) Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:25 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Yes, that's it. I've also known a number of freebirthing mamas whose babies were transverse at the start of labour and between cx and OFP the babies moved down beautifully and were safely born at home. I'm always uncomfortable with surgeons recommending surgery. Often OFP helps transverse babies move quite perfectly. HTH. Bicycle shorts sound weird but they seem to work! J - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:21 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] High babies I have a friend whose baby is transverse (she's 32 weeks now) and as I was searching the mail archives for some advice, I came up to this message. What do you do with bicycle shorts? Just wear them and the baby turns? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:31 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Bicycle shorts! Cheap, simple and hugely effective! J - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Surely if this baby is truly stuck in a transverse position at term (and there has been no mention of gestation) a C/S would be necessary? Is she a primip or multi? How long has the baby been transverse and has any attempt been made to encourage it to a more favourable position? sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Dear Megan If it were not such a sad situation you could laugh at the patronising ignorance or is that arrogance and obsurdity of this Obs! Sounds like the next step is C/s for babies who have the nerve to turn around completely as that also stretches the uterus! And of caourse he has not talk of the risks to mother and baby of elective C/s on an arbitary date!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Megan Woodman-Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Dear Sally, I am an independant midwife in Melbourne. could you please contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a friend of a friend who is in need of a professional further opinion in regards to a transverse baby and apparently a LUSCS is definitely needed (according to her OB) because the uterus has been stretched in an abnormal way and she is at risk of uterine rupture!! Thanks Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] High babies
I have a friend whose baby is transverse (she's 32 weeks now) and as I was searching the mail archives for some advice, I came up to this message. What do you do with bicycle shorts? Just wear them and the baby turns? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:31 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Bicycle shorts! Cheap, simple and hugely effective! J - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Surely if this baby is truly stuck in a transverse position at term (and there has been no mention of gestation) a C/S would be necessary? Is she a primip or multi? How long has the baby been transverse and has any attempt been made to encourage it to a more favourable position? sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Dear Megan If it were not such a sad situation you could laugh at the patronising ignorance or is that arrogance and obsurdity of this Obs! Sounds like the next step is C/s for babies who have the nerve to turn around completely as that also stretches the uterus! And of caourse he has not talk of the risks to mother and baby of elective C/s on an arbitary date!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Megan Woodman-Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] High babies Dear Sally, I am an independant midwife in Melbourne. could you please contact me [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a friend of a friend who is in need of a professional further opinion in regards to a transverse baby and apparently a LUSCS is definitely needed (according to her OB) because the uterus has been stretched in an abnormal way and she is at risk of uterine rupture!! Thanks Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] fear
I think its not so much a matter of verbalizing the fear, I think it has more to do with asking the question. When you ask a question, a woman asks herself that question, maybe for the first time, or at least for the first time in that situation. The right question at the right time, followed by reassurance, or by something different to what a woman believed until then, can lead to a crucial insight. My 2 cents J. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ceri Katrina Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:44 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fear On 05/02/2006, at 12:36 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: What is your biggest fear right now? She didn't answer for a couple of contractions then suddenly burst out My biggest fear is that I won't be able to birth the baby What do you know - lip went and baby started to appear! This fascinates me too. Is is just a matter of verbalising that fear??? I know it sounds dumb, but most women when questioned say that they fear the pain.no denying that it is going to hurt, so is it a matter of just verbalising it?? On a similar matter the last couple of weks, I have had 2 women simply stump me. One with an epidural, one without. Both reached 9 then 10 cms dilation, and decided they did not want to push. They were adament they did not want to push, that they wanted the baby pulled out!!! Despite reasurrance that they could do it, and that unless they were unwell or the baby distressed, they baby would NOT be pulled out and they certainly would not be taken for a LSCS, they continued to say No I dont want to push, I'm not going to push it is going to hurt too much! They eventually had the baby when the next shift took over, but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this before??
RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management
My favourite is this one: The length of uncomplicated human gestation. Mittendorf R, Williams MA, Berkey CS, Cotter PF. Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts. By retrospective exclusion of gestations with known obstetric complications, maternal diseases, or unreliable menstrual histories, we found that uncomplicated, spontaneous-labor pregnancy in private-care white mothers is longer than Naegele's rule predicts. For primiparas, the median duration of gestation from assumed ovulation to delivery was 274 days, significantly longer than the predicted 266 days (P = .0003). For multiparas, the median duration of pregnancy was 269 days, also significantly longer than the prediction (P = .019). Moreover, the median length of pregnancy in primiparas proved to be significantly longer than that for multiparas (P = .0032). Thus, this study suggests that when estimating a due date for private-care white patients, one should count back 3 months from the first day of the last menses, then add 15 days for primiparas or 10 days for multiparas, instead of using the common algorithm for Naegele's rule. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Perhaps we need to get away from due dates altogether. Instead of giving women an edd, maybe saying that if your baby has not arrived by x date we can discuss various options. I agree, that when we give women a particular date they fix on it. As do their family and friends = lots of pressure as the date comes and goes. Doesn't matter how much we tell them the 38-42wk thing - they are aiming for that 40wk due date. From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +1100 It really does and the overwhelming focus on the 40 week mark means that women are freaking out by 40+3 convinced they'll never go into labour and really upset and angry. There's no point saying term is 38-42, you're quite ok because they have the fear of god in them about the mythical 40+10 which means induction. Bloody terrible! It was so different planning a home birth and just floating about high on endorphins knowing no one was going to hassle me. Too many women, ie the majority, really miss out on this. We need that ridiculous compulsory induction before 42 weeks to just end. I'm so tired of giving postdates info to women at 39 weeks who are already being pressured by their hospital because If you don't go into labour by x date we will induce you! Who can labour with that hanging over them? J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management The issue faced by women when they go post dates has a huge impact on things. I wonder if women were to celebrate and cherish the last few days of being pregnant instead of feeling 'fed up' - if women did not hear from anyone (and usually everyone) the comment of are you still here love? or the best one: You still here, my gawd you are huge! If women were told they look beautiful, if women were given social 'approval' to be pampered; to internalize; to value the last few days then perhaps more women would go into labour without that desperate fed up notion that makes induction more appealing. The last few weeks of a pregnancy I think are the most challenging for many women. We as a society need to allow them and encourage them to value the last few days of holding their child close. Birth blessings, women circles (where a group of females get together and celebrate the birthing women or even do something helpful like a cooking afternoon with meals for the freezer, or housework bee to do all those jobs that bother expectant mums); massages; pedicures; hair appointments WHATEVER! Anything that says to the woman 'take your time, feel comfortable within yourself think positive and baby will come.' *sigh* but instead women are fed phrases that enforce they should be doing something to get baby out. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 1/27/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management
And this one: The current due-date predictor -- Naegele's Rule -- was devised in 1838 by Franz Carl Naegele and has been used by obstetricians around the world for more than 150 years. Naegele's Rule is based on the belief that human gestation is 10 lunar cycles (nine months plus seven days), not on empirical data. http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/961107/pregnancy.shtml Vedrana -Original Message- From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:13 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management My favourite is this one: The length of uncomplicated human gestation. Mittendorf R, Williams MA, Berkey CS, Cotter PF. Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts. By retrospective exclusion of gestations with known obstetric complications, maternal diseases, or unreliable menstrual histories, we found that uncomplicated, spontaneous-labor pregnancy in private-care white mothers is longer than Naegele's rule predicts. For primiparas, the median duration of gestation from assumed ovulation to delivery was 274 days, significantly longer than the predicted 266 days (P = .0003). For multiparas, the median duration of pregnancy was 269 days, also significantly longer than the prediction (P = .019). Moreover, the median length of pregnancy in primiparas proved to be significantly longer than that for multiparas (P = .0032). Thus, this study suggests that when estimating a due date for private-care white patients, one should count back 3 months from the first day of the last menses, then add 15 days for primiparas or 10 days for multiparas, instead of using the common algorithm for Naegele's rule. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Perhaps we need to get away from due dates altogether. Instead of giving women an edd, maybe saying that if your baby has not arrived by x date we can discuss various options. I agree, that when we give women a particular date they fix on it. As do their family and friends = lots of pressure as the date comes and goes. Doesn't matter how much we tell them the 38-42wk thing - they are aiming for that 40wk due date. From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +1100 It really does and the overwhelming focus on the 40 week mark means that women are freaking out by 40+3 convinced they'll never go into labour and really upset and angry. There's no point saying term is 38-42, you're quite ok because they have the fear of god in them about the mythical 40+10 which means induction. Bloody terrible! It was so different planning a home birth and just floating about high on endorphins knowing no one was going to hassle me. Too many women, ie the majority, really miss out on this. We need that ridiculous compulsory induction before 42 weeks to just end. I'm so tired of giving postdates info to women at 39 weeks who are already being pressured by their hospital because If you don't go into labour by x date we will induce you! Who can labour with that hanging over them? J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management The issue faced by women when they go post dates has a huge impact on things. I wonder if women were to celebrate and cherish the last few days of being pregnant instead of feeling 'fed up' - if women did not hear from anyone (and usually everyone) the comment of are you still here love? or the best one: You still here, my gawd you are huge! If women were told they look beautiful, if women were given social 'approval' to be pampered; to internalize; to value the last few days then perhaps more women would go into labour without that desperate fed up notion that makes induction more appealing. The last few weeks of a pregnancy I think are the most challenging for many women. We as a society need to allow them and encourage them to value the last few days of holding their child close. Birth blessings, women circles (where a group of females get together and celebrate the birthing women or even do something helpful like a cooking afternoon with meals for the freezer, or housework bee to do all those jobs that bother expectant mums); massages; pedicures; hair appointments WHATEVER! Anything that says to the woman 'take your time, feel comfortable within yourself think positive and baby will come.' *sigh* but instead women are fed
RE: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms
Yes, shes quite a woman, isnt she? And this is what was happening before she came home: http://www.nandu.hu/Magyar/Szules/HU_MW.htm Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 10:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms I had a look at this web site and found her story at http://www.nandu.hu/Magyar/Szules/HU_MW3.htm absolutely amazing and well worth the read Andrea Q On 21/01/2006, at 4:23 AM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: Paivi, you might want to ask Andrea Noll, a Hungarian midwife, for photos of her homebirth. You can see them at http://www.nandu.hu/English/Childbirth/chbmain.htm Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of pinky mckay Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Paivi, here are two beauiful birth centres I visited while in New Zealand last year. Any woman is funded to go there with her own midwife. River-ridge is a beautiful building desgned by a steiner/ anthroposophical' architect - lovely scultures in small private gardens that can be entered from the rooms and Waterford is more 'corporate'. Both are freestanding/ not attached to hospitals. http://www.riverridgeeastbc.co.nz/ http://www.waterfordbc.co.nz/waterford/index.php?ctnt=about.php Best wishes with your project, Pinky - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Wow, It would be more than terrific to get their story in a local magazine. Is there any way you could hook me up with them? Päivi - Original Message - From: jesse/jayne To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Paivi (sorry, I can't do the accents!) I am some friends (sisters) from Finland living in Australia that birthed at home - in Australia though. Isn't that strange?! Cheers, Jayne - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Absolutely! I plan to show hospital rooms, birthing centre rooms and home. Unfortunately the Birthing Centre consept is not even known about in Finland and we only have some 20 homebirths a year but I am trying to awaken some interest by showing pictures of something we don't really associate with birth over here... Päivi - Original Message - From: jesse/jayne To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Can I suggest some pictures of the most mother/baby friendly? That would have to be ~home~ :) Cheers Jayne - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Hi everyone, I am putting together a photo gallery to display some of the most beautiful birthing rooms in contrast of the most uncomfortable hospital delivery rooms, with some description of where they are from.The photo gallery will be presented in Tampere Finland later this spring. If you work in an environment, where the birthing rooms are really mother friendly and comfortable, or if you know some places where I could contact to get pictures, please contact me.Unfortunately I will not be able to go and take photoes, since I am back here in Finland. It would be great to get some pictures from many different countries. Paivi Laukkanen Childbirth Educator Finland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] Web resources for keeping boys intact
My favourite: http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/ - Normal development of the prepuce: Birth through age 18 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:52 PM To: undisclosed-recipients; undisclosed-recipients; undisclosed-recipients; undisclosed-recipients; @uniserve.com Subject: [ozmidwifery] Web resources for keeping boys intact A few neutral medical website: http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm (Canadian Paediatric Society) A summary of worldwide Medical association position papers http://www.nocirc.org/position/ http://aappolicy.aappublications.or...trics;103/3/686 Breastfeeding/Maternal Bond http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/ (links to medical articles and positional papers) http://www.birthpsychology.com/birthscene/circ.html Other resources: www.cirp.org www.nocirc.org http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/ http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/ http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_lost.html http://doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/ Mothering.com also has many articles against circumcision, most recently in the September/October 2005 issue
RE: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms
Paivi, you might want to ask Andrea Noll, a Hungarian midwife, for photos of her homebirth. You can see them at http://www.nandu.hu/English/Childbirth/chbmain.htm Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of pinky mckay Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:50 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Paivi, here are two beauiful birth centres I visited while in New Zealand last year. Any woman is funded to go there with her own midwife. River-ridge is a beautiful building desgned by a steiner/ anthroposophical' architect - lovely scultures in small private gardens that can be entered from the rooms and Waterford is more 'corporate'. Both are freestanding/ not attached to hospitals. http://www.riverridgeeastbc.co.nz/ http://www.waterfordbc.co.nz/waterford/index.php?ctnt=about.php Best wishes with your project, Pinky - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Wow, It would be more than terrific to get their story in a local magazine. Is there any way you could hook me up with them? Päivi - Original Message - From: jesse/jayne To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Paivi (sorry, I can't do the accents!) I am some friends (sisters) from Finland living in Australia that birthed at home - in Australia though. Isn't that strange?! Cheers, Jayne - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Absolutely! I plan to show hospital rooms, birthing centre rooms and home. Unfortunately the Birthing Centre consept is not even known about in Finland and we only have some 20 homebirths a year but I am trying to awaken some interest by showing pictures of something we don't really associate with birth over here... Päivi - Original Message - From: jesse/jayne To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Can I suggest some pictures of the most mother/baby friendly? That would have to be ~home~ :) Cheers Jayne - Original Message - From: Päivi Laukkanen To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms Hi everyone, I am putting together a photo gallery to display some of the most beautiful birthing rooms in contrast of the most uncomfortable hospital delivery rooms, with some description of where they are from.The photo gallery will be presented in Tampere Finland later this spring. If you work in an environment, where the birthing rooms are really mother friendly and comfortable, or if you know some places where I could contact to get pictures, please contact me.Unfortunately I will not be able to go and take photoes, since I am back here in Finland. It would be great to get some pictures from many different countries. Paivi Laukkanen Childbirth Educator Finland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] Peaceful birth
The photo is beautiful! Congratulations! Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:42 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Peaceful birth Congratulations to you all, Mum, Dad, Kids, midwives etc Andrea Q On 06/12/2005, at 11:05 PM, Justine Caines wrote: Dear All Heres the news and even a little pic! Thank you all so much for your lovely wishes! JC xx http://au.geocities.com/homebirthau/twins.html
RE: [ozmidwifery] CF screening
True. But you get false positives or false negatives, correct? So there is a chance that you get prepared for a CF child, and get a healthy one, or prepare for a healthy child and give birth to a sick baby. But of course, theres a greater chance that a test is correct. Anyway, the test is out there, if the country can afford it they might as well make it routine as long as women are not pressured into taking it and are the last ones to make an informed decision. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Robyn Dempsey Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 7:29 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] CF screening Who says that because testing is available, that you have to terminate? The testing allows choice. My sister has made friends who have children with CF, they knew they carried the gene and took the attitude I know what to do with CF kids, it doesn't bother me. Once again, I read judgment. Testing allows choice.the choice to terminate, or the choice to prepare for a child with extra needs. Robyn D
RE: [ozmidwifery] CF screening
If it was me who triggered your responses I dont have a problem with anyone who choses to have an abortion for whatever reason and I live my life trying not to judge anyone or anyones choices. I was just trying to imagine how I would feel if I was a sick child who read an article about how a test is available, which wasnt there at the time I was born. Im sure Id be thinking about how miserable my parents actually are because of me, since some would take the test and have an abortion because of a child just like myself and would wonder whether my mom would have had an abortion with me had she lived in a time when a test was available. But this is just me and my thoughts. On the other side, Im also aware that caring for a sick child usually means giving your life as it was away, that it requires a huge commitment as you said and that its not something anyone would wish for, either for him/herself, or for a child. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Susan Cudlipp Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CF screening I agree - please don't make judgements in the case of inherited disorders. I too carry a faulty gene (not CF)which has affected all 3 of my children. While I love them all dearly and do not regret their lives, I do know that I would NOT have chosen this path willingly. I was not able to test for the first 2, did test for the 3rd, but was informed (wrongly as it turns out) that females are not affected. Knowing several families with CF and the battles they face both in testing issues and in raising affected children I could not judge anyone who did not feel that they wanted to continue with a pregnancy if the child were to have a serious problem. It is true that all lives are meaningful and that all children should be valued, sadly society still has a very long way to go before that ideal is commonplace practice. I have met with much ignorance and discrimination regarding my kids, their lives are compromised, they will always require care. They have taught me much and have touched many lives, those who take the time to know them value them deeply, however, not everyone does. I have met many angels and many ogres! Raising such children takes a huge commitment physically, emotionally and financially,and you fight battles every day to make their world a better place. I have often cared for women who have chosen to terminate a child with a genetic fault, as part of my job, and I pride myself on giving them the best care I can, without judgement on their decision. I figure they have had a hard enough time coming to that place without that. I have also had the great joy of caring for women who have chosen to continue regardless. With all of these I share some of my own experience so that they will know that others have found themselves in similar circumstances. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer in such situations. People have to come to their own choice according to their own circumstances, beliefs and consciences, then they have to find peace with that choice, either way it is not easy. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Robyn Dempsey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] CF screening My niece has cystic fibrosis. She has had over 10 hospitalizations in her 3 years of life. Her mum ( my sister) does the physiotherapy for her every day and night. My niece has to take many preparations as she doesn't absorb fats, which means vitamin deficiencies are common. My niece has a permanent pseudo infection in her lungs, this flares up if she gets a cold, which results in a hospital stay. My sister avoids gatherings ( family), if someone is sick. My sister has had so much time off work because she needed to care for my niece, that she gave up work to look after her. My sister has decided not to have any more children, as she feels 2 with CF would be too hard. ( being able to give to both the attention they need). I'm sure she would opt for the testingdon't judge unless you've been in the situation. Robyn Dempsey No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
RE: [ozmidwifery] Comments re Scotland's BF law
Hathor the Cowgoddess has a great comic on that one, I can look it up if you want. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 12:24 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Comments re Scotland's BF law I found a website where people can post comments about breastfeeding in public - ie., should it be allowed?!!! If any one is interested, there are some pretty way out ideas, some even questioning that BF is natural... :( http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1threadID=377start=0tstart=0edition=2ttl=20051124230930#paginator Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Comments re Scotland's BF law
Here it is: http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=186 Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 7:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Comments re Scotland's BF law Hathor the Cowgoddess has a great comic on that one, I can look it up if you want. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 12:24 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Comments re Scotland's BF law I found a website where people can post comments about breastfeeding in public - ie., should it be allowed?!!! If any one is interested, there are some pretty way out ideas, some even questioning that BF is natural... :( http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=1threadID=377start=0tstart=0edition=2ttl=20051124230930#paginator Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Breeched baby
My baby was breech and I believe it happened for a number of reasons. First, my posture was pretty bad. Second, my lifestyle was mainly sedentiary. Third, I had this lovely chair in which I could lean back and relax, so I hardly spent any time leaning forward while awake. Fourth, we were always taught to tuck put stomacks in and straighten our backs, so my stomach was rarely relaxed and when it was, it was in the wrong direction :). Only after giving birth did I come up to the great advice for relaxing those muscles during birth and that was to imagine that youre 10 months pregnant. I often remember this advice when I have a period and it really takes away the pain. And last, I was afraid not of the birth, but of the after birth I didnt know if I was going to be able to be a good mother and this was really important to me to be a good mother. Anyway, I had an ECV (shining light to the baby, talking to it and lifting my pelvis didnt do it) and it was the less of two evils in my opinion the only other alternative offered was CS. I heard later on about the moxa sticks. That would be something Id try before ECV if I were in the same situation again. Probably also hypnosis if it were available. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:26 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breeched baby Hi Madelaine In my experience I have found that the mothers of babies who are breech usually have something going on in their lives or fear of something in relation to birth. The babies have their heads close to the mum's heart for comfort knowing that something is not right with her. We have successfully turned many babies with hypnosis. A study done in the USA on 2 groups of 100 women where inthe 1st group where nothing was done 26% of the babies turned while in the hypnosis group 84% turned. Babies know when you talk to them and also maybe the mum needs some further reassurance that all is OK in her world. I have had them commence to turn while in my office and certainly many where arms and legs are going everyehere. I personally do not agree with the hands on approach. Babies are breech for a reason andI believe that ifthey don't turn by thermselves then don't mess with nature. regards Diane Gardner - Original Message - From: Madelaine Akras To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breeched baby Sonja, the lady who currently has a breech baby does have a OB or a referal to someone who will preform and ECV. Madelaine - Original Message - From: Sonja Barry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breeched baby do you live near an Ob who will perform an ECV? ' Sonja
RE: [ozmidwifery] question from Year 10 student
The fluid and equal pressure theory and the fetal circulatory system which is different to ours both sound logical to me. Other ideas occurred to me as well - if you look at the size of baby's head in comparison to the body, the proportion is so different than it is in an adult, all that extra blood which rushes to baby's head in theory is nowhere near extra blood which rushes to adult's head (in proportion). Also, even as an adult (who practises yoga for example :) ), you can do a headstand and stay in the position for a long time without problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 5:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] question from Year 10 student I have searched through Maternal, Fetal and Neonatal Physiology (Blackburn Loper) and cant find anything helpful Andrea Q On 08/11/2005, at 9:54 AM, wump fish wrote: This made me laugh. It is just the kind of question my son (year 9) would come up with. I haven't even thought about it! I would go with the fluid and equal pressure theory. Being upside down in water at an adult (try it) does not result in the same pressure as being upside down outside water. However, if we go with this theory - what happens when women rupture their membranes. We know it has a variety of effects on labour and the baby. But, does it also make it less comfortable for baby due to being upside down? Just thinking aloud. I would love someone to find some evidence on this. Rachel From: Bowman Family [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] question from Year 10 student Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:10:21 +1100 I am involved in the CoreOf Life Program for Year 10 students. It is a fun and interactive program run over a double period and is about the journey through pregnancy, labour birth and parenting. Last week when I was demonstrating positioning with doll pelvis one of the boys asked how come the blood doesn't rush to the baby's head like it does for us if we are upside down I didn't know the correct answer and said I would get back to him. It possibly is obvious but I have asked a few peers and no-one is definite they have the correct answer. I thought I would throw it open to OzMidwifery for discussion. Linda _ The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Strep B screening
Here I go with links again :) : http://www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/group-b.html and some comments at: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_123/ai_114242270 Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:22 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Strep B screening Here in Belgium is the same rule, with unknown status they start AB in labour. When labour goes to fast they will preventive give ab to the baby. Also with a positive test the mother has no choice and will have AB in labour. When the profylaxy is not compleet, the baby goes to neonatal ward and gets AB. A few weeks ago I had a discussion with a pediatrician. Mother laboured at home and wanted to give birth in hospital. Last visit the gyn told her she was pos on GBS and she would have AB in labour. She discussed it with the GP who is also homeopath and he said she could refuse the AB. She asked me in early labour and I said yes, you can, but then your baby will be under attack :-) I adviced her to call the pediatrician to ask for the protocols. I left them to decide what to do and went home. Within half an hour I had a very angry pediatrician on the line. She didn't want to discuss the thing but just to push her view on us. I told her that she could find the info I gave to the mother on their own website of obs and gyns. Her heaviest argument was that she studied in a university hospital (Leuven) and therefor she knew :-) The mother gave birth at home greetings Lieve - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: vrijdag, november 4, 2005 10:17 AM Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: [ozmidwifery] Strep B screening I have been told by a pregnant woman that she was reluctant to have a strep B test at 35-37 weeks. She was informed by a doctor in the A/N clinic of our public tertiary hospital, that if she went into labour with an unknown status and attended the delivery suite , her baby would have to be given IMI antibiotics until the baby's screening swabs came back 48hrs later. She felt that to protect the baby, she had to consent to A/N screening. Those who recognize the description of this hospital, is that true? Or has this lady been unintentionally misled? Does this happen in any other hospitals? Feel free to email me off line if you don't want to speak publicly. Thanks, MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] group b strep in breastmilk
Since GBS is not passed through breast milk, patients should be advised that breast-feeding can give the baby important antibodies and other factors to help protect the baby from infection. Additionally, routine hand washing is always advised in handling any newborn to reduce the number of germs. http://oblink.com/display.asp?page=articles_pretermlabor_gbs_part1 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth and Mark Bryant Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 12:58 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] group b strep in breastmilk Dear All, I am a long time reader first time writer... I am a student midwife currently working in special care nursery. We have had an 34 week boy with us for some time, quite unwell on and off despite antibiotic cover and cultures negative so far. Mum is keen breastfeeder and has been doing her utmost to get as much breastmilk into him as possible, however after exploring lots of options we cultured her breastmilk and it came back positive for group b strep. Just wondering if anyone had had any experience with this, or knew what the chances of long term breastfeeding were like??? Liz -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil
You might want to check these three sites: http://www.birthingnaturally.net/birthplan/intervention/cervidil.html http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/midwivescytotec.asp http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/midwivescytotec.asp Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Alesa Koziol Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:18 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil Lisa We (Midwives) currently use prostin but there is a move afoot for us to commence using cervidil. For lots of reasons, we are not keen to go down this track and I am seeking info on what is currently in use around oz so am fully armed in time for our next meeting.and I must thank everyone who has answered this thread so far you have been most helpful. More info always gratefully accepted:) Cheers Alesa - Original Message - From: Lisa Barrett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil Midwives insert the cervidil there are no MO's. Ashford is the biggest private hospital in South Australia. Induction rate is also about 70% maybe more, for all the wrong reasons. What sort of results do you get with it? Lisa - Original Message - From: Alesa Koziol To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil Thanks Lisa... do the midwives use it or is it inserted by MO?? And which state are you in? Cheers Alesa - Original Message - From: Lisa Barrett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil They use Cervidil at Ashford, It has quite an aggressive action provided it's inserted correctly. It's not easy to put in however being extremely awkward. It's almost impossible to place it in the posterior fornix. One Ob described it to a patient as a tampon. I found this very amusing as it's Barbie sized! Lisa - Original Message - From: Larissa Inns To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:58 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:cervidil I only know of a couple of private OB's who use it at one of our local private hospitals. Most choose not to use it because of the cost. Hugs,Larissa. My next question for the list is to ask of any sites where Midwives are using cervidil. Cheers Alesa
[ozmidwifery] aspiration syndrome and poor technique
Andrea, in your diary (http://birthinternational.com.au/diary/archives/2005_10.html) you wrote: It is the anaesthetists who impose the restrictions about eating and drinking in labour, even though there is no evidence to support their rules. The research clearly states that limiting access to food and fluids increases the likelihood of caesarean birth, and that the few anaesthetic accidents that have occurred (aspiration syndrome) during prepping for caesarean surgery, are due to poor technique. These few emergencies, the result of incompetent practise, have resulted in millions of women worldwide being denied nutrition in labour, to their detriment. Where can I find more on this? Vedrana
RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Study: Pacifiers Reduce SIDS
Read what Hathor the Cowgoddess has to say about it: http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=181 and http://www.thecowgoddess.com/archshow.asp?var=180 Vedrana (still laughing) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 2:36 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Study: Pacifiers Reduce SIDS Eeek!! Another article we wish hadnt been published, it also condemns co-sleeping published on the ninemsn news site Pacifiers reduce SIDS: study Thursday Oct 13 09:06 AEST Infants should be put to sleep on their backs only, not their sides, and pacifiers can be used to help prevent sudden infant death syndrome, US pediatricians said. Revised guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatrics issued on Monday also discourage parents from sleeping with their infants at all, saying babies are safer in their own cribs. SIDS, the sudden, unexplained death of an infant in the first year of life, is the third leading cause of infant mortality in the United States, causing the deaths of 2,500 infants each year. Campaigns to encourage parents and other caregivers to put babies to sleep on their backs instead of their tummies slashed the death rates from SIDS, also known as crib death or cot death, in countries such as Britain and the United States in the 1980s and 1990s. Studies have found that the side sleep position is unstable and increases the chances of the infant rolling onto his or her stomach. Every caregiver should use the back sleep position during every sleep period, the academy said in a statement. Infants may be brought into bed for nursing or comforting, but should be returned to their own crib or bassinet when the parent is ready to return to sleep. However, there is growing evidence that room sharing (infant sleeping in a crib in parent's bedroom) is associated with a reduced risk of SIDS. About the often controversial use of pacifiers, also known as dummies, the pediatricians' group said: Research now indicates an association between pacifier use and a reduced risk of SIDS, which is why the revised statement recommends the use of pacifiers at nap time and bedtime throughout the first year of life, the statement said. No one is entirely sure what causes SIDS. But lying prone, or face-down, sleeping on a soft surface, smoking during pregnancy, overheating, late or no prenatal care, having a young mother, being born pre-term or at a low weight all greatly raise a baby's risk. So the Academy recommends that babies be laid to sleep on their backs, without a pillow, quilt, stuffed toys or other items that could interfere with breathing. Mothers should not smoke while pregnant or afterward, rooms should not be too hot or stuffy and if a baby likes a pacifier, let him or her have it. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists
RE: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep
My advice - think hard about what is happening in his life, listen hard to what YOU feel is right and remember that things change with time. This will pass. Waking up often won't hurt him. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:24 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep Jo, I hear you!!! My first born was a very wakeful sleeper and my second has been waking often from four months - every time he is teething (i.e. now!) he gets worse. I know lots of mums that have wakeful babies at four months of age - so please don't feel alone! You've really got to follow what works for you and ignore all the conflicting advice - adopt only the bits which work for you, because as you will know, what works for one won't necessarily work for the other. A friend of mine desperately wanted to co-sleep with her baby but to this day at nearly four years of age, she still wants to sleep on her own, in her bedroom, with the light off and door shut! Much to mums dismay! Pinky will no doubt have some great advice for you but I can recommend her book, 100 Ways to Calm the Crying and also a fantastic book recommended to me by my birth teacher, Rhea Dempsey, The Wonder Weeks by Frans X. Plooij Hetty Vanderijt - two paeds. Here is the book blurb: In The Wonder Weeks, you'll discover the specific dates during their first 14 months when all babies take eight major developmental leaps. And you'll learn how to help your baby through the eight great fussy phases that mark these leaps within a week or two. Wonder week by wonder week, you'll see how your baby's mind is developing. Now you will know which games and toys are best for your baby during each key week and how to encourage each leap forward. Calendars, charts, and checklists help you track your baby's progress - and finally make sense of his fussy behavior. This is a baby book like no other. It will be your indispensable guide to the crucial wonder weeks of your baby's first year. Remember... this too will pass... :) Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz Sent: Monday, 17 October 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Infant Sleep Hi All... Just wondering if any of you have any thoughts on this Q/A: http://www.awareparenting.com/answer13.htm The question seems to relate strongly to our situation at the moment. Will is waking VERY often over night. He only seems to need feeding twice, as the other times he just semi-wakes and cries, and needs rewrapping, and dummy back in. I counted 18 awakenings the other night, and I think the number came close last night. This happens whether co-sleeping or puting him in his cot in our room. He seems to go to sleep quite easily, but doesn't stay asleep. The answer suggests not giving the dummy for sleep, but letting baby cry-it-out, only in your arms. It says that babies need this crying time to release stress of the day and once it's gone, they will sleep well (until they're hungry, of course). If they don't get this crying time, because the parents use rocking, dummy, wrapping, whatever to calm them, then they need to wake often to cry, and try to release the stress. It's all so confusing! I hate the idea of letting him cry, whether I'm holding him or not, especially when it's so easily fixed! Thanks for listening! Jo (Mum to Will, 4.5 months old) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Convenience
I guess the attachment is missing? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FIONA AND CRAIG RUMBLE Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:24 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Convenience Have I missed something/??? Regards Fiona Rumble - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Convenience Oh yeah! Can we take out full colour pages in all the major dailies with this on it? I'd like to add a PS Bottlefeeding IS NOT more convenient than breastfeeding and has dire consequences when it goes wrong! J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Convenience
I kind of think that thats because they dont have enough information, that their attitude was formed by what the society thinks about birth and bf in general and that it is influenced by many myths we hear while were pregnant or with a small baby. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Convenience I often think that, Maxine. When I meet mamas who don't want to give birth and don't want to bf, I kinda wonder why they want children...? I didn't realise birth was optional, yk? Apparently the old elective c-sec under a general is pretty popular in some quarters. J - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmid Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Convenience I have a friend who is a breastfeeding counsellor and I always remember her exasperation when after some frustrating interaction with someone who wanted a convenient baby she said .. I don't know why they just didn't get a puppy! Maxine
RE: [ozmidwifery] Induction and third stage labour
Neither primative man nor any other contemporary mammal :). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Chapman Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:45 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Induction and third stage labour I think I would be tempted to say that mild jaundice is normal. I can't see primative man cutting the cord so quickly as we do and somehow he managed to survive and even proliferate. Where I work we do a lot of physiological third stages, late cord clamping and early breastfeeding and many babies have a bit of jaundice colour but it is not pathological. We do very few SBR blood tests. Probably helps that we don't have onsite pathology, it has to go to the tertiary hospital so it makes one think if one really needs to. Haven't had to use the phototherapy for ages. Cheers Judy --- Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are some who believe the higher levels of antioxidants caused by jaundice may be protective of babies, and mild jaundice 'may' be normal. Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of lisa chalmers Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:48 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Induction and third stage labour My experience of this, is that if the cords are not cut until they have finished pulsing, babies seem to develop jaundice for longer..(that the usual standards) . That makes complete sense to me, since they get more blood than babes that had cords clamped and cut quickley. I'm sure I read somewhere that babies are deprived of as much as 25% of their blood volume by cutting the cord. Nearly everyone I know that did not cut the cord, had babies that developed Jaundice. Nothing serious just yellowing. - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Induction and third stage labour There are many reasons that influence whether a baby gets jaundiced or not Two of these are 1. prematurity ( of the liver as well as dates, some babies livers take ages to be efficient enough to clear the jaundice. 2. Not passing mec soon after birth. The longer the mec stays inside the more bilirubin is reabsorbed increasing the workload of the immature system. This is usually influenced by how quickly the baby is able to feed. The thing about synt is that it is often used to augment labour in a woman who has been labouring for hours or to induce labour in a woman who is not yet ready to go into labour and the result is a tired mother and baby who often dont come together well to feed without good assistance. This is often not forthcoming in the hurry to get things cleaned up, the move to the postnatal ward and paper work to be done. Ask your friend and she will probably not have seen jaundice in a woman who has had synt but had a quick labour. Most women who birth in hospitals have synt in some form or other for 3rd stage and the level of jaundice in some settings is very low. I would suggest it may be in direct relationship to the length of time until feeding is established. I think the whole reason synt is being used is the concern rather than blaming the synt for jaundice alone. Andrea Q On 06/10/2005, at 2:03 AM, Belinda wrote: I have a friend who has been a ipm for many years and she believes that babies are more likely to get jaundiced when the mother has had synto, it makes sense of they get that extra unneccessary boost of blood. Belinda -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 4/10/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Messenger 7.0: Free worldwide PC to PC calls http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Janet, After reading your story I feel so many things... To send you some more love across a couple of oceans is all I can think of right now... Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:28 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
I remember I was reading somewhere about how 40 weeks is not the mean duration of pregnancy, it is more, and it is different for first and subsequent pregnancies. I can't seem to find that article anywhere. This might be of interest to her, if I could just find it somewhere... It was pretty old, I think from the sixties last centry. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 3:58 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Thank-you so much for this, have forwarded it to her... She's still going at 40w3d with no signs of anything happening as yet, appointment with the high risk Ob tomorrow where I know there will be talk of induction / caesar... Can you please tell me more about this balloon induction - not heard of it before? Want to be armed with info for what's to come with the challenge tomorrow... Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy McCarthy-Bushby Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 5:49 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Hi Kelly, The website www.birthrites.org has a page on natural induction including information on EPO doses either orally or vaginally, nipple stimulation, accupressure (4 fingers above the inner aspect of the ankle bone). EPO, is great for women planning a vbac for ripening the cervix, but if she doesn't get into labour naturally, EPO can make the cervix ripe for ARM and the balloon induction has been safely used for vbac women with an unripe cervix. kathy - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Hello everyone, I know it's probably a bit late to try this, but I have a mum who's hoping for a VBAC, EDD today but in order to beat a caesar (they wont induce her of course) we're thinking of giving EPO a go to help with ripening her cervix. I have read somewhere that 500mg tid is often used - can anyone confirm or recommend dosage they have used? She'll ask a herbalist none the less, but often I find they aren't well versed on specifics for preg baby like this. Also her BP is creeping up a little, she had pre-eclampsia with the first but obviously done well with this pregnancy - will this still be okay with EPO or is there something else I could recommend? I think she's actually quite frightened having had a previous caesar hence the blood pressure (she's had a great BP otherwise) so I am going to meet with her tomorrow to hopefully relax her about a vaginal birth. She's told me in fewer words she's frightened but I think she's keeping it in - will have a big chat tomorrow. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 13/09/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 16/09/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
Found it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=PubMedlist_uids=2342739dopt=Citation Obstet Gynecol. 1990 Jun;75(6):929-32. Related Articles, Links Comment in: Obstet Gynecol. 1990 Oct;76(4):732-4. The length of uncomplicated human gestation. Mittendorf R, Williams MA, Berkey CS, Cotter PF. Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts. By retrospective exclusion of gestations with known obstetric complications, maternal diseases, or unreliable menstrual histories, we found that uncomplicated, spontaneous-labor pregnancy in private-care white mothers is longer than Naegele's rule predicts. For primiparas, the median duration of gestation from assumed ovulation to delivery was 274 days, significantly longer than the predicted 266 days (P = .0003). For multiparas, the median duration of pregnancy was 269 days, also significantly longer than the prediction (P = .019). Moreover, the median length of pregnancy in primiparas proved to be significantly longer than that for multiparas (P = .0032). Thus, this study suggests that when estimating a due date for private-care white patients, one should count back 3 months from the first day of the last menses, then add 15 days for primiparas or 10 days for multiparas, instead of using the common algorithm for Naegele's rule. MeSH Terms: Female Humans Parity Pregnancy* Private Practice Retrospective Studies Time Factors PMID: 2342739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? I remember I was reading somewhere about how 40 weeks is not the mean duration of pregnancy, it is more, and it is different for first and subsequent pregnancies. I can't seem to find that article anywhere. This might be of interest to her, if I could just find it somewhere... It was pretty old, I think from the sixties last centry. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 3:58 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Thank-you so much for this, have forwarded it to her... She's still going at 40w3d with no signs of anything happening as yet, appointment with the high risk Ob tomorrow where I know there will be talk of induction / caesar... Can you please tell me more about this balloon induction - not heard of it before? Want to be armed with info for what's to come with the challenge tomorrow... Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy McCarthy-Bushby Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 5:49 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Hi Kelly, The website www.birthrites.org has a page on natural induction including information on EPO doses either orally or vaginally, nipple stimulation, accupressure (4 fingers above the inner aspect of the ankle bone). EPO, is great for women planning a vbac for ripening the cervix, but if she doesn't get into labour naturally, EPO can make the cervix ripe for ARM and the balloon induction has been safely used for vbac women with an unripe cervix. kathy - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix? Hello everyone, I know it's probably a bit late to try this, but I have a mum who's hoping for a VBAC, EDD today but in order to beat a caesar (they wont induce her of course) we're thinking of giving EPO a go to help with ripening her cervix. I have read somewhere that 500mg tid is often used - can anyone confirm or recommend dosage they have used? She'll ask a herbalist none the less, but often I find they aren't well versed on specifics for preg baby like this. Also her BP is creeping up a little, she had pre-eclampsia with the first but obviously done well with this pregnancy - will this still be okay with EPO or is there something else I could recommend? I think she's actually quite frightened having had a previous caesar hence the blood pressure (she's had a great BP otherwise) so I am going to meet with her tomorrow to hopefully relax her about a vaginal birth. She's told me in fewer words she's frightened but I think she's keeping it in - will have a big chat tomorrow. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au www.toys4tikes.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby Australian Little Tikes Specialists
RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery-led units - warning, a bit of a rave!
Kind of like mother friendly childbirth
initiative (http://www.motherfriendly.org/MFCI/steps/),
except mother becomes woman to include a midwife.
Sounds nice.
-Original Message-
From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Jennifairy
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005
5:25 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery-led
units - warning, a bit of a rave!
ok, bear with me while I think out loud
in your general direction
well we have the 'baby friendly
hospital initiative', so how about the 'woman friendly birth centre'? I mean,
better still, 'the community' (representatives of) should really be heavily
involved in this kind of primary care health structure (physical as well as
intellectual), then it could be 'community-led birth centre'. I think
(right now this minute, subject to change without notice) that as long as we
are identifying the structure (ie the physical space, not the governing body)
with the politics of care provision (ie, who is the 'primary carer') then we
are going to have confusion. I had a bit of a look at what constitutes
'midwifery-led care' 'continuity of carer' etc, for an assignment at uni,
these terms encompass a whole range of different models of care - its not
as clear cut as it seems!
The definitions would seem to be
consistent, but how it works out in practice 'on the coalface' (now theres a
term that seriously needs an overhaul!) varies enormously.
As I said, Im guessing that what
we'd mostly like to see is the idea of a 'woman-led' birthing culture actually
happening that requires a shift in perception not only for Mr
Mrs Joe Average (boy, Im just piling up the dodgy metaphors arent I?) but for
the PTB's within the 'health culture' . because that means moving away from
the whole 'doctor as God' thing that goes with relinquishing responsibility =
litigation etc, to actually believing that 'ordinary people' can take
responsibility for thier health/care... as long as the 'ordinary people' wont
or cant do that, there will be others who do, where there is
responsibility there is power, where there is power there are invariably
individuals who are drawn to it.
Starhawk in her book Truth or Dare
identifies 3 kinds of power in society - power-over ( backed by force or some
other kind of control, deeply embedded in heirarchical structures, enables one
individual to make decisions that affect others..); power-within ('empowerment',
a sense of personal control 'mindfullness'..); power-with
(influence, the power not to command, but to suggest be listened to or
not, to work with others for a common goal..)
Im bringing this up because
what I see is a clash of cultures, where midwives are 'traditionally' allied
with women their self-identified needs (power-with) rather than that of
the institution which is all about heirarchy control (power-over) because
it was spawned from a militaristic culture
So really we are talking different
languages - the language of 'power-over' is very different to that of
'power-with' to come back circuitously to my point (its there
somewhere!), the terms that keep being used ('midwifery-led care',
'medical-based model', even 'free-standing birthing unit') come from the
language of 'power-over' because they all identify who is 'in control', who
is in the 'power-over' position...
um, Ive just looked at the time
Ive gotta run, thanx for bearing with me while I ramble incontinently,
I will leave you with one of my favorite definitions - madness is when you
froth at the mouth; insanity is when you froth at the brain (sorry, has
absolutely no bearing on this conversation, completely irrelevant, but for some
reason I remembered it now - Im just a sharing kinda gal) jennifairy
As I watched the 7.30 Report
last night, that dreadful term midwifery led unit kept
springing up. I have a real problem with this term, as you can read on
My Diary:
http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html
Can't we do better than this?
Thinking caps on please!
Andrea
-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE
Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led units
Nick, I've had 30 years of experience and the disaster can come out of the clear blue sky in a patient who's been assessed as low risk and they happen in a heartbeat. They happen so rapidly that they are stunning. This is what we hear in Croatia as well. To my knowledge, this is true when there was a previous intervention, which interfered with the natural process. What is your opinion? What can one say to this? -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Honey Acharya Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:33 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led units Here's the transcript if anyone missed it http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1463815.htm Cheers Honey - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led units As I watched the 7.30 Report last night, that dreadful term midwifery led unit kept springing up. I have a real problem with this term, as you can read on My Diary: http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html Can't we do better than this? Thinking caps on please! Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Research mailing from the Baby Friendly Initiative
Title: Research update from the UNICEF UK Baby Friendly Initiative Is the loophole in British legislation or where? Because the International Code (http://www.who.int/nut/documents/code_english.PDF) clearly defines its scope: The Code applies to the marketing, and practices related thereto, of the following products: breast-milk substitutes, including infant formula; other milk products, foods and beverages, including bottlefed complementary foods, when marketed or otherwise represented to be suitable, with or without modification, for use as a partial or total replacement of breast milk; feeding bottles and teasts. It also applies to their quality and availability, and to information concerning their use.. Breast-milk substitute means any food being marketed or otherwise presented as a partial or total replacement for breast milk, whether or not suitable for that purpose. Complementary food means any food whether manufactured or locally prepared, suitable as a complement to breast milk or to infant formula, when either become insufficient to satisfy the nutritional requirements of the infant. Such food is also commonly called weaning food or breast-milk supplement. Infant formula means a breast-milk substitute formulated industrially in accordance with applicable Codex Alimentarius standards, to satisfy the normal nutritional requirements of infants up to between four and six months of age, and adapted to their physiological characteristics. Infant formula may also be prepared at home, in which case it is described as home-prepared. From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:29 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Research mailing from the Baby Friendly Initiative - Original Message - From: Baby Friendly News To: Denise Hynd Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:59 AM Subject: Research mailing from the Baby Friendly Initiative 19 September 2005 Legal loophole allows banned formula advertising to mothers and babies Pregnant women and new mothers are being pressured to bottle feed their babies by advertising which was thought to have been outlawed ten years ago. A MORI survey of 1,000 new mothers and pregnant women published today by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF UK) and the National Childbirth Trust (NCT) suggests that manufacturers are exploiting loopholes in a law banning the promotion of infant formula for babies. Two thirds (60%) of those surveyed said they had seen or heard advertising for infant formula in the past year. Advertising of infant formula has been banned in the UK since 1995 in recognition of the importance of breastfeeding. The letter of the law banning adverts for infant formula - milk powder for babies which can be used from birth - has been broadly observed by manufacturers, say UNICEF and the NCT, but adverts for other products such as follow-on formula for older babies appear to be causing confusion. When the advertising ban was introduced, it didn't cover follow-on formula, said Andrew Radford, Director of UNICEF UK's Baby Friendly Initiative. The manufacturers have since changed the way they package and promote their follow-on formulas so that they're almost identical to the regular infant formula. This means that a supposedly legal TV or magazine advert for a follow-on formula will also promote a company's infant formula. More than a third of women who had seen formula advertising said that the message conveyed was that infant formula is 'as good as' or 'better than' breastmilk. This is despite the overwhelming evidence that bottle-feeding carries significant health risks. The UK's Health Departments recommend that babies have nothing other than breastmilk for their first six months of life. In England, the Government has committed to seeking stricter controls on advertising in its delivery plans for the 'Choosing Health' white paper [see report]. UNICEF UK and the NCT are now calling for the European Commission to allow the UK to protect mothers and babies from all promotion of formula milks. Along with other members of the Baby Feeding Law Group, they are urging the EC to give all EU governments the flexibility to extend the advertising ban so the law does what it was originally intended to do. The survey also reveals that many mothers are unclear about the distinction between the different types of formula milk. Of the mothers who had used follow-on milk, nearly one in five said they started before their baby was three months old, despite the product's higher mineral content, which is unsuitable before six months. Although some mothers may be referring to
RE: [ozmidwifery] baby poo
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/04enough_milk.html Handout #4. Is My Baby Getting Enough Milk? Revised January 2005 Written by Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC. 2005 Breastfeeding mothers frequently ask how to know their babies are getting enough milk. The breast is not the bottle, and it is not possible to hold the breast up to the light to see how many ounces or millilitres of milk the baby drank. Our number obsessed society makes it difficult for some mothers to accept not seeing exactly how much milk the baby receives. However, there are ways of knowing that the baby is getting enough. In the long run, weight gain is the best indication whether the baby is getting enough, but rules about weight gain appropriate for bottle fed babies may not be appropriate for breastfed babies. Ways of Knowing 1. Baby's nursing is characteristic. A baby who is obtaining good amounts of milk at the breast sucks in a very characteristic way. When a baby is getting milk (he is not getting milk just because he has the breast in his mouth and is making sucking movements), you will see a pause at the point of his chin after he opens to the maximum and before he closes his mouth, so that one suck is (open mouth wide--pause--close mouth). If you wish to demonstrate this to yourself, put your index or other finger in your mouth and suck as if you were sucking on a straw. As you draw in, your chin drops and stays down as long as you are drawing in. When you stop drawing in, your chin comes back up. This same pause that is visible at the baby's chin represents a mouthful of milk when the baby does it at the breast. The longer the pause, the more the baby got. Once you know about the pause you can cut through so much of the nonsense breastfeeding mothers are being toldlike feed the baby twenty minutes on each side. A baby who does this type of sucking (with the pauses) for twenty minutes straight might not even take the second side. A baby who nibbles (doesn't drink) for 20 hours will come off the breast hungry. The website www.thebirthden.com/Newman.html has videos that show this pause in the babys chin. 2. Baby's bowel movements. For the first few days after delivery, the baby passes meconium, a dark green, almost black, substance. Meconium accumulates in the baby's gut during pregnancy. It is passed during the first few days, and by the third day, the bowel movements start becoming lighter, as more breastmilk is taken. Usually by the fifth day, the bowel movements have taken on the appearance of the normal breastmilk stool. The normal breastmilk stool is pasty to watery, mustard coloured, and usually has little odour. However, bowel movements may vary considerably from this description. They may be green or orange, may contain curds or mucus, or may resemble shaving cream in consistency (from air bubbles). The variations in colour do not mean something is wrong. A baby who is breastfeeding only, and is starting to have bowel movements that are becoming lighter by day 3 of life, is doing well. Without becoming obsessive about it, monitoring the frequency and quantity of bowel motions is one of the best ways, next to observing the babys drinking, (see above, and videos at www.thebirthden.com/Newman.html) of knowing if the baby is getting enough milk. After the first three to four days, the baby should have increasing bowel movements so that by the end of the first week he should be passing at least two to three substantial yellow stools each day. In addition, many infants have a stained diaper with almost each feeding. A baby who is still passing meconium on the fourth or fifth day of life, should be seen at the clinic the same day. A baby who is passing only brown bowel movements is probably not getting enough, but this is not very reliable. Some breastfed babies, after the first three to four weeks of life, may suddenly change their stool pattern from many each day, to one every three days or even less. Some babies have gone as long as 15 days or more without a bowel movement. As long as the baby is otherwise well, and the stool is the usual pasty or soft, yellow movement, this is not constipation and is of no concern. No treatment is necessary or desirable, because no treatment is necessary or desirable for something that is normal. Any baby between five and 21 days of age who does not pass at least one substantial bowel movement within a 24 hour period should be seen at the breastfeeding clinic the same day. Generally, small, infrequent bowel movements during this time period mean insufficient intake. There are definitely some exceptions and everything may be fine, but it is better to check. 3. Urination. With six soaking wet (not just wet) diapers in a 24 hours hour period, after about 4-5 days of life, you can be reasonably sure that the baby is getting a lot of milk (if he is breastfeeding only). Unfortunately, the new super dry disposable diapers often do indeed feel dry even when full of urine, but when soaked
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Wow, thank you! Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of G Lemay Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. There ARE some important things with breech. This is where your anatomy and physiology of the newborn is very important. Understanding the circulatory system of the baby, the way the bones in the head fold over each other and the concept of creating an airway are some important considerations. The main rule is HANDS OFF, however, that is not all there is to it. With breech births it's important to have a period of 45 mins from the time the woman feels like pushing till when she actively pushes, in order to prevent the head being caught on an undilated cervix. Once the baby is born to the umbilicus, you have 7 mins to complete the birth. You want to avoid rushed handling but you also don't want to sit there like a lump. The baby can be provoked to draw breath or shoot his/her arms above the head by meddlesome handling. The body hanging (and I especially like the all 4's position for this) is Nature's way of bringing the back hairline to the introitus of the vulva. Sometimes, even without stim. the arms will be up and it's important to turn the babe's hips using a cloth and not touching the delicate organs in the belly (you can rupture organs with your pointy little fingers when the baby's abdomen is engorged and your adrenal is running) so that the shoulders are antero-post diameter in the pelvis, then reaching in and gently sweeping them down. sometimes this requires a second demi rotation for the second arm. Once the babe's hairline is visible, then, it's important NOT to let the crown of the head POP. Popping can result in a fatal tear to the cerebral tentorum---a drumlike membrane over the brain. So, at this point, you reach a finger in, get the baby's lower jaw and gently pull the mouth and nose into sight. Once there, the mother is told Stop all pushing. Then she can stay like this for a very long time and all is well. You want her to easy, easy, easy get the top of the head born so there is no pop and you know you have an airway to that baby. One of the guidelines that Michel Odent stresses is to watch the first stage to tell you how the second stage will go with a breech. If you have a smooth, progressive first stage, the second stage will follow that way. If you're having a breech birth where the progress gets hung up or stuck and the butt doesn't come down to the vulva on its own, you want to consider cesarean as a safer option. Gloria Vedrana Valèiæ wrote: Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than I'm getting. Because if there isn't, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] RE: Problems with Ozmid List or not??
Well :), I forwarded all messages from the list from past 3 days to you when you said you weren't getting anything. There were 31 of them. I think you're not getting any messages from the list, I don't know why. The messages you are sending to the list are coming through. Vedrana -Original Message- From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:36 PM To: Vedrana Valčić Cc: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Problems with Ozmid List or not?? Nothing for several days and suddenly 31 from you Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and nothing from the list not even my question What is happening ?? Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:56 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 3:53 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s... Hi Tania I too have been checking out the facts on inductions after listening to the same Obstetrician. The Nice guidelines say that the mortality rate is 1 in 3000 at 37 weeks 3 in 3000 at 41 weeks and 6 in 3000 at 43 weeks. at 40wks 58% of women have delivered at 41wks 74% of women have delivered at 42wks 82% of women have delivered. Due to all of the above the conclusion they make is induction prior to 41 wks increases work load without significantly lowering perinatal mortality. The whole document can be read on www.nice.org.uk Also there are some interesting figures on the birthlove site below. These figures do show the risk for primip section is doubled with induction but the over all section rate doesn't seem to be altered. Unless I've misinterpreted it. http://www.birthlove.com/free/induction.html#first Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s... Hi Belinda, Is this stat published anywhere, or just anecdotal? A 60% section rate is twice the rate for the state, and I think twice the average for that hospital too, and having just heard a leading obstetrician there tell women that there is NO risk of an increase in c/s as a result of induction, I'm trying to get my head around it... Tania x -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Tuesday, 13 September 2005 12:06 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IOL and C/s... Tania, at the wch the stats are - for primip women indcued before 41 weeks there is a 60% cs rate. Belinda Tania Smallwood wrote: Just wondering if there are any good quality trials about IOL and increase of c/s? Have just re-read Enkin, and it does state that IOL is not associated with an increase in caesarean section rate (but given that most states here are up around the 30% mark, you have to wonder what they are comparing that to?), but I thought something came out of the Uk not long ago disputing this? Anyone? Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:34 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Following the post from Lynne Staff, and others who talk of supportive (might even say sensible) obstetricians who do practice woman friendly care. Wouldn't it be good if some of these rare creatures came out and spoke to their less supportive colleagues about their methods, beliefs and results. I feel conflicted about this because they have access to the same information as the rest of us but are obviously motivated by different things (money perhaps???) in the decisions they make for their clients. I think we will have much more chance of educating women to reject their dangerous practices. Women are sometimes more open to reflection on this stuff after a poor experience. I doubt very much that the Obs I hear about whose standard lines are Do this or your baby will die. have very much invested in providing appropriate social care, yk? Of course anything that works has got to be good! Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
What I meant was: Is delivering a breech that complicated that it can be called art? From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:48 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
Thank you, Andrea! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Hello Vedrana, Marsden has written many articles -we have some on our website that you will find interesting. His book Pursuing the Birth Machine describes how the WHO came around to thinking that the obstetric model of care needed to be changed and the consensus meeting that established the standards of care set down by the WHO. His conversion to midwifery came about primarily through personal contact with midwives, mainly in Europe. As an epidemiologist he could see the sense in what they were saying and he set out to prove this through research etc. It is a great read, and has all the references etc that underpin the recommendations. As the publisher of Pursuing the Birth Machine (it is 10 years old now) we have a few copies left at a very good price. it is a book that everyone should have on their shelf, not only because of its now historical importance but also because the arguments are very eloquently put - a good example of how to tackle these arguments yourselves. More details are available here: http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/ace/bk200.html Regards, Andrea At 07:52 PM 9/09/2005, you wrote: Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than Im getting. Because if there isnt, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:23 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Don't know if this has been posted before but one of my favourite midwives on Planet Earth is Mary Cronk of Britain. She teaches breech courses to mws all over the British Isles. Here's a link to an article by her on the things you need to know about this art http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories
RE: [ozmidwifery] US-Sad situation for maternity caregiver
Does anyone know what happened to dr. Murphy in the end? Vedrana -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valčić Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:27 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] US-Sad situation for maternity caregiver There is some more info at http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6713890p-6601036c.html. -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Honey Acharya Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:07 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] US-Sad situation for maternity caregiver This is a story in the US where a doctor has had her obstetric and gynae license suspended and is in front of the medical review board because her 8% c-sec rate is too low and she is practicing unsafe medicine!. You get about $700 more than the vaginal birth. So you actually get paid more to do the quickest, easiest thing, compared to sitting at the bedside or being in the hospital with the patient, said Murphy. http://www.ktuu.com/CMS/anmviewer.asp?a=14312z=4 Of course it is only a short article and we don't know all the details but I find it a scary situation. Maybe she should practice as a midwife instead. A doula on another list I am on posted it today. Honey -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies
A very interesting discussion on breech births and midwives: http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miriam Hannay Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:10 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Breech Babies I totally understand, Susan about the whole fear of breech birth. We have a couple of OBs who will 'let' women birth a breech babe vaginally, but fully managed, IOL, 16 gauge bores in both arms, hartmann's up, McRoberts, episi, full extraction. To me this seems torture. I am a second year Bmid student and intending to go into independent practice, so am availing myself of every extra learning opportunity available. A fellow student and I (my lovely partner in crime), attended Maggie Banks' emergency skills workshop in Melbourne recently which was SO valuable, and we feel much more comfortable about the possibility now. I have a dear friend whose first 'catch' as an RM was an undiagnosed breech at home, so it does happen. We need to be prepared and develop the skills to handle this situation. What a shame and potential danger it is if these skills fall by the way. Everyone who can should hear Maggie Banks speak, she dispells fears and demystifies like no-one else. Regards, Miriam (FUSA) --- Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it was Brenda who wrote that, but I have also been a midwife long enough to have seen many breech births - back in the UK, and delivered a few myself. Not all good, mostly quite 'managed' but at least they were mostly seen as being manageable vaginally! My own elective C/S (nearly 21 years old now!) was for primip breech, although I was given the choice of vaginal birth, I knew just what that would entail within the large unit that I was obliged to attend - epidural, forceps, episiotomy, and I chose not to go there, however at that time there was no question that I would not be able to have VBAC with the next - nowadays that is not so. A year or so back we had a multi with a breech who was lucky enough to see a less interventionist OB (as you so rightly guessed Melissa :-)) and she chose to have a vaginal birth. Of course it had to be induced on the 'right' day, but was very straight forward. Apart from that we really don't see them anymore, and at least one of the few docs who does do them does such a horrendous job that I would personally prefer a C/S rather than submit to his handling.( you can probably guess that one too Mel!) It is sad that student midwives today will not learn these essential skills within the hospital system. Personally I feel confident that I can handle an unexpected breech, but cannot see how the next generation are going to cope with this, there is so much fear of what is really only a different variety of birth, in the same way that any 'different' presentation is. Anyone who has had the pleasure of hearing Maggie Banks speak, watched her video, or that of Michel Odent's work in Pithiers will know that this is true Rachel, I totally empathise with how you are feeling having just come to Australia from the UK (been here 15 years myself). It was a real shock to me to see how much all births are seen as being the doctor's property. One of my first births here was in a small hospital and I called the GP as per protocol. He arrived as I had the head in my hands and proceeded to rush in, without even washing his hands and virtually pushed me out of the way! I looked at him with horror and said quietly I think I may as well finish the job now don't you? He did step back and let me finish. Some years later he admitted that he had learned a few things from me - one of which was to wait for restitution before trying to deliver the shoulders! They were always in such a goddamn hurry to drag the baby out, it drove me mad. When they are faced with an 'expert' obstetrician (often a male authority figure) telling them their baby is in danger - they will chose to protect their child because as a mother that is their instinct. An example of this happened to me just this week - the head was well and truly crowned (primip, long labour, NO fetal distress) but OB insisted on listening to FH immediately ctx ended - it was about 100, and he took over from me to apply forceps. I was not concerned for the baby as I knew there had been no compromise throughout and that he would be born within minutes, but within the system I am obliged to defer to the doctor's judgement, whether or not I agree with it. Believe me, I know well what happens when one tries to argue!! I hope you maintain your own integrity and autonomy - it is very different here to what we knew in UK, but we do need to keep pushing for midwifery led care. I feel that much of the problem lies with how we are
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
OK, I found it: Its a combination of gob, mouth, and smacked. It means utterly astonished, astounded. These stories makes me so sad. How nice that they can get some support. Vedrana From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:02 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births What does gobsmacked mean? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I wonder if anyone does these or similar in Melbourne specifically for men On the Joyous Birth forums there is a private section specifically for fathers who have been present at births which were traumatic. We also support them in planning, with their partners,for subsequent births in a more empowered and informed way. We have dads at Joyous Birth meetings in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney where they have access to all our books, videos and the like. Many men who attend home births, especially after experiencing how unnecessary they often are in the hospital hierarchy, become great advocates of woman centred birth. When I ran that article past the dad who moderatesthat forum,he was gobsmacked that anyone could find the normal, natural processes of birth anything other than wondrous. He sat like a deaf mute, through fear,watching his wife scream through repeated unwanted VEs, with the staff demanding that he help hold her still. He was sent home at one point as her induced labour ramped up because the hospital was having building done and she was forced to labour in one large room with other unsupported labouring women. He saw her repeatedly jabbed in the leg with pethidine without her knowledge or consent - it was done in the middle of a cx and she would ask what had been given to her when she came out of the pain. Eventually all this led to caesarean and the staff refusing both him and his wife the chance to hold their baby for many many hours. She is still recovering from PTSD 3 years later and after a great deal of work, they have reclaimed their marriage and are planning a home birth. He can't wait to actually be involved and be able to support his wife. And she can't wait to hold her own baby as soon as it's born. I think the pathologising of even normal, physiological birth has led us to this sad situation. We have at least one couple who have divorced partly over the husband supporting the hospital to pressure the wife into an unnecessary (and second!)elective caesarean. The physical injury she sustained from that operation was terrible, not to mention the PTSD, and she says in retrospect she didn't realise how much his attitude would impact negatively on their marriage, let alone her birth experience. So now she's single and dreaming of a HBA2C for her future. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
What does gobsmacked mean? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Men at births I wonder if anyone does these or similar in Melbourne specifically for men On the Joyous Birth forums there is a private section specifically for fathers who have been present at births which were traumatic. We also support them in planning, with their partners,for subsequent births in a more empowered and informed way. We have dads at Joyous Birth meetings in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney where they have access to all our books, videos and the like. Many men who attend home births, especially after experiencing how unnecessary they often are in the hospital hierarchy, become great advocates of woman centred birth. When I ran that article past the dad who moderatesthat forum,he was gobsmacked that anyone could find the normal, natural processes of birth anything other than wondrous. He sat like a deaf mute, through fear,watching his wife scream through repeated unwanted VEs, with the staff demanding that he help hold her still. He was sent home at one point as her induced labour ramped up because the hospital was having building done and she was forced to labour in one large room with other unsupported labouring women. He saw her repeatedly jabbed in the leg with pethidine without her knowledge or consent - it was done in the middle of a cx and she would ask what had been given to her when she came out of the pain. Eventually all this led to caesarean and the staff refusing both him and his wife the chance to hold their baby for many many hours. She is still recovering from PTSD 3 years later and after a great deal of work, they have reclaimed their marriage and are planning a home birth. He can't wait to actually be involved and be able to support his wife. And she can't wait to hold her own baby as soon as it's born. I think the pathologising of even normal, physiological birth has led us to this sad situation. We have at least one couple who have divorced partly over the husband supporting the hospital to pressure the wife into an unnecessary (and second!)elective caesarean. The physical injury she sustained from that operation was terrible, not to mention the PTSD, and she says in retrospect she didn't realise how much his attitude would impact negatively on their marriage, let alone her birth experience. So now she's single and dreaming of a HBA2C for her future. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report)
Thank you for this, Rachel. I am very interested in this subject because in Croatia, you become a midwife after graduating from a high school for midwives. There is no university-level education afterwards and I was under an impression that if we (women and midwives together) manage to convince our Ministry of Health to start educating midwives at that, higher level, a major step would be accomplished. Now I realize that there is much more to it. So midwives working in the public health system in Australia don't have the same autonomy as do independent midwives? How about training? Is it all self-study after graduating from college? Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:32 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) Even if it is the same curriculum in Australia - it is set within a different context. Correct me if I am wrong (still getting to grips with the system here). A student midwife in Australia is 'mentored' by midwives working in the public health system. Because these midwives are limited in their autonomy and skills, the student will also be limited. Students are also subject to the cultural and social perceptions of midwifery where they train. If most people perceive midwives as nurses working in maternity - it is difficult to develop an identity as a midwife (I am struggling to maintain my own professional identity). In the UK the midwives I trained with were 'midwives', they did not also work as nurses, nor refer to themselves as nurses. Women in the UK called us midwives and had an understanding and respect for our role. During my practice as a team midwife - women would ring us to tell us they were pregnant. We would send a letter to their GP to let them know (out of courtesy), then provide all the woman's care until 6wks postnatal. Women refer to midwives as 'my midwife' and ask each other 'who is your midwife'. Are Australian students exposed to this kind of reciprocal relationship with women? Midwifery is not just about clinical skills - it is about philosophy, culture, experience, politics etc etc. Rachel From: Vedrana ValÄ?iÄ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:13:18 +0200 This is the minimum of what European midwives have to learn, either in 3 years of practical and theoretical studies (after 10 years of general school education) or in 18 months (for qualified nurses responsible for general care): TRAINING PROGRAMME FOR MIDWIVES The training programme for obtaining a diploma, certificate or other evidence of formal qualifications in midwifery consists of the following two parts: A. THEORETICAL AND TECHNICAL INSTRUCTION (a) General subjects 1. Basic anatomy and physiology 2. Basic pathology 3. Basic bacteriology, virology and parasitology 4. Basic biophysics, biochemistry and radiology 5. Paediatrics, with particular reference to new-born infants 6. Hygiene, health education, preventive medicine, early diagnosis of diseases 7. Nutrition and dietetics, with particular reference to women, new-born and young babies 8. Basic sociology and socio-medical questions 9. Basic pharmacology 10. Psychology 11. Principles and methods of teaching 12. Health and social legislation and health organization 13. Professional ethics and professional legislation 14. Sex education and family planning 15. Legal protection of mother and infant (b) Subjects specific to the activities of midwives 1. Anatomy and physiology 2. Embryology and development of the foetus 3. Pregnancy, childbirth and puerperium 4. Gynaecological and obstetrical pathology 5. Preparation for childbirth and parenthood, including psychological aspects 6. Preparation for delivery (including knowledge and use of technical equipment in obstetrics) 7. Analgesia, anaesthesia and resuscitation 8. Physiology and pathology of the new-born infant 9. Care and supervision of the new-born infant 10. Psychological and social factors B. PRACTICAL AND CLINICAL TRAINING This training is to be dispensed under appropriate supervision: 1. Advising of pregnant women, involving at least 100 pre-natal examinations. 2. Supervision and care of at least 40 women in labour. 3. The student should personally carry out at least 40 deliveries; where this number cannot be reached owing to the lack of available women in labour, it may be reduced to a minimum of 30, provided that the student participates actively in 20 further deliveries. 4. Active participation with breech deliveries. Where this is not possible because of lack of breech deliveries practice may be in a simulated situation. 5. Performance of episiotomy and initiation into
RE: [ozmidwifery] BF video
I've sent it to you for Judy, because of her slow line. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Price Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:45 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Judy, I've just got back from holidays and would love to be sent a copy of the breastfeeding video cheers Jenni ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) *** This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is prohibited. It may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone or by return email. You should also delete this email and destroy any hard copies produced. *** -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births
My husband was traumatized by my birth (and so was I). After the ob decided to use vaccuum extraction, he was sent out of the room and just listened to all what was happening. When our son (Vid) was born, he was called back into the room and was shocked with all the blood (they did an episiotomy), so I can understand the part in the article where the author writes about stress related to a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others. On top of that, we didn't know if Vid was going to be OK (he was). I remember consciously postponing analyzing what happened for about two months, when I finally started feeling less overwhelmed with taking care of my new baby and had some time to think about everything and talk about it with my husband. I was able to get over it, talking about it with my friends who had natural births helped very much, but my husband still feels uneasy when we talk about my birth. The ob told him right after birth to get me to listen to them more the next time (hahaha). Anyway, I haven't noticed any sexual problems :), then again, he didn't get to see the bulging vagina ;), but I think that the reason why some men might feel traumatized is because women's bodies are so sexualized - just as we lost the link between breasts and brestfeeding and it's disturbing for some to see a woman's breast in a baby's mouth, maybe the link between vagina and giving birth is also lost. But that's what they are for, when you really think about it. I am so grateful for my breasts now, I see them in a totally different way, it is just amazing what they can do. I suppose women who had a natural birth feel the same way about their reproductive organs and the whole body. Plus, the nature never intended for women to birth in a litothomy position. I mean, when a woman gives birth in a different position, I guess it's not that easy to see the bulging part :), or is it? I agree with what everyone else wrote about the setting, interventions, being an observer, energy and so on. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:51 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Men at births Personally Andrea, my hubby was far more traumatized by my second birth -my episiotomies vbac- than my horrific cs of my first. It wasn't until I had my third did he truly understand what I was on about. He was mute with the first. Scared sh*tless with the second. He laughed and cried with our last. The energy in the room really influenced how he interpreted the event. I also, in my role of a doula, I find dads looking for some kind of reassurance that everything is okay. I often say, isn't it amazing what your partners body can do? I never say anything in the negative about bulging vulvas or the stretched peris...just how brilliant women's bodies are. As a woman, I would love to expereince a birth of one of my children in the company of just other women. I think it would be amazing. Amazing amazing ...why is it I use that word so often when talking about birth!? jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Men at births This is an interesting report in today's Sydney Morning Herald. I remember Michel Odent talking about research done in the US that explored the effect on a couple's sexual relationship when the man had been exposed to the birth process. Michel was advocating that women might want to retain some of their sexual mystery by excluding men from the birth room. I have been at births where I wondered how the father was taking the sight of a practitioner cutting an episiotomy. What does everyone think about this? http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/08/30/1125302566185.html Regards, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report)
Obviously scary rubbish makes better news than truthful lovely births. I think you are SO right there. It seems to me that viewing birth as a disaster just waiting to happen, even if it is a normal birth, is Dr Giltrap's problem. Plus, I'm still trying to understand what he meant by: Dr Giltrap claimed Australian midwives were not as well trained as their European counterparts and Australian standards were often higher than those in Europe. There is a resolution by EU which states how many hours of what midwives have to have, and I doubt that it is more than you have in Australia. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) Rachel (welcome btw!) I hear everything you're saying and I concur. It's so transparently about a professional monopoly but their own brilliant misinformation campaign is so entwined with our current cultural fears around normal physiological birth that very little gets into the media to contradict it. Of course what I really want is for them to have to answer how all the guff they spout really stands up against the research but the seven second soundbite only allows long enough for scare tactics, not evidence. It's interesting to me that in many years of writing letters to SMH and The Age, I have never had one published on birth issues. I've got quite a track record on political issues of other kinds, but not even the most benign letter on home birth or midwifery has made it into their publications. Obs and midwives get published a bit but very rarely consumers. I sent letters to every major paper plus regionals for Home Birth Awareness Week last year, and not one was published. That's a lot of editors making the same decision. Obviously scary rubbish makes better news than truthful lovely births. Food for thought! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report)
Once again, sent the last mail before it was finished, sorry. Obviously scary rubbish makes better news than truthful lovely births. I think you are SO right there. It seems to me that viewing birth as a disaster just waiting to happen, even if it is a normal birth, is Dr Giltrap's problem. Plus, I'm still trying to understand what he meant by: Dr Giltrap claimed Australian midwives were not as well trained as their European counterparts and Australian standards were often higher than those in Europe. There are a couple of directives by EU which address midwives, and I doubt that it is more than you have in Australia. Aah, but then higher standards come into effect, right? Anyway: Directive 80/154/EEC concerning the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications in midwifery and including measures to facilitate the effective exercise of the right of establishment and freedom to provide services Directive 80/155/EEC concerning the coordination of provisions laid down by Law, Regulation or Administrative Action relating to the taking up and pursuit of the activities of midwives Decision 80/156/EEC setting up an Advisory Committee on the Training of Midwives Directive 89/594/EEC amending Directives 75/362/EEC, 77/452/EEC, 78/686/EEC, 78/1026/EEC and 80/154/EEC relating to the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications as doctors, nurses responsible for general care, dental practitioners, veterinary surgeons and midwives, together with Directives 75/363/EEC, 78/1027/EEC and 80/155/EEC concerning the coordination of provisions laid down by Law, Regulation or Administrative Action relating to the activities of doctors, veterinary surgeons and midwives Directive 2001/19/EC amending Council Directives 77/452/EEC, 77/453/EEC, 78/686/EEC, 78/687/EEC, 78/1026/EEC, 78/1027/EEC, 80/154/EEC, 80/155/EEC, 85/384/EEC, 85/432/EEC, 85/433/EEC and 93/16/EEC As for dr Pesce, even if midwife care did offer just minimal benefits, I'm sure women would like to make the choice for themselves. And comparing lacerations with episiotomies, where everything, skin, muscles, nerves are cut, left me with my mouth open. As did the statement that there is a higher risk of perinatal deaths in birth centres. Vedrana -Original Message- From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:54 AM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) Obviously scary rubbish makes better news than truthful lovely births. I think you are SO right there. It seems to me that viewing birth as a disaster just waiting to happen, even if it is a normal birth, is Dr Giltrap's problem. Plus, I'm still trying to understand what he meant by: Dr Giltrap claimed Australian midwives were not as well trained as their European counterparts and Australian standards were often higher than those in Europe. There is a resolution by EU which states how many hours of what midwives have to have, and I doubt that it is more than you have in Australia. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) Rachel (welcome btw!) I hear everything you're saying and I concur. It's so transparently about a professional monopoly but their own brilliant misinformation campaign is so entwined with our current cultural fears around normal physiological birth that very little gets into the media to contradict it. Of course what I really want is for them to have to answer how all the guff they spout really stands up against the research but the seven second soundbite only allows long enough for scare tactics, not evidence. It's interesting to me that in many years of writing letters to SMH and The Age, I have never had one published on birth issues. I've got quite a track record on political issues of other kinds, but not even the most benign letter on home birth or midwifery has made it into their publications. Obs and midwives get published a bit but very rarely consumers. I sent letters to every major paper plus regionals for Home Birth Awareness Week last year, and not one was published. That's a lot of editors making the same decision. Obviously scary rubbish makes better news than truthful lovely births. Food for thought! J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report)
This is the minimum of what European midwives have to learn, either in 3 years of practical and theoretical studies (after 10 years of general school education) or in 18 months (for qualified nurses responsible for general care): TRAINING PROGRAMME FOR MIDWIVES The training programme for obtaining a diploma, certificate or other evidence of formal qualifications in midwifery consists of the following two parts: A. THEORETICAL AND TECHNICAL INSTRUCTION (a) General subjects 1. Basic anatomy and physiology 2. Basic pathology 3. Basic bacteriology, virology and parasitology 4. Basic biophysics, biochemistry and radiology 5. Paediatrics, with particular reference to new-born infants 6. Hygiene, health education, preventive medicine, early diagnosis of diseases 7. Nutrition and dietetics, with particular reference to women, new-born and young babies 8. Basic sociology and socio-medical questions 9. Basic pharmacology 10. Psychology 11. Principles and methods of teaching 12. Health and social legislation and health organization 13. Professional ethics and professional legislation 14. Sex education and family planning 15. Legal protection of mother and infant (b) Subjects specific to the activities of midwives 1. Anatomy and physiology 2. Embryology and development of the foetus 3. Pregnancy, childbirth and puerperium 4. Gynaecological and obstetrical pathology 5. Preparation for childbirth and parenthood, including psychological aspects 6. Preparation for delivery (including knowledge and use of technical equipment in obstetrics) 7. Analgesia, anaesthesia and resuscitation 8. Physiology and pathology of the new-born infant 9. Care and supervision of the new-born infant 10. Psychological and social factors B. PRACTICAL AND CLINICAL TRAINING This training is to be dispensed under appropriate supervision: 1. Advising of pregnant women, involving at least 100 pre-natal examinations. 2. Supervision and care of at least 40 women in labour. 3. The student should personally carry out at least 40 deliveries; where this number cannot be reached owing to the lack of available women in labour, it may be reduced to a minimum of 30, provided that the student participates actively in 20 further deliveries. 4. Active participation with breech deliveries. Where this is not possible because of lack of breech deliveries practice may be in a simulated situation. 5. Performance of episiotomy and initiation into suturing. Initiation shall include theoretical instruction and clinical practice. The practice of suturing includes suturing of the wound following an episiotomy and a simple perineal laceration. This may be in a simulated situation if absolutely necessary. 6. Supervision and care of 40 women at risk in pregnancy, or labour or postnatal period. 7. Supervision and care (including examination) of at least 100 post-natal women and healthy new-born infants. 8. Observation and care of the new-born requiring special care including those born pre-term, post-term, underweight or ill. 9. Care of women with pathological conditions in the fields of gynaecology and obstetrics. 10. Initiation into care in the field of medicine and surgery. Initiation shall include theoretical instruction and clinical practice. Is it different in Australia? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Chapman Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:14 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: 'Higher risk' in midwife deliveries (http://theaustralian.com.au report) You are so right about many Australian Midwives being prevented from gaining the full spectrum of skills necessary for total care of well women. As you said the answer is to give midwives the opportunity to learn what they should not just want OB's want them to learn. Those midwives who work independently, in birth centres and some in hospitals have had to actively chase the knowledge and experience necessary to do their work properly. It is hard work sometimes. All worth it though when you have a satisfying birth with a woman who you have developed a relationship with antenatally. Cheers Judy --- wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there is a difference between the training and skills of Australian mw and UK mw. But, this largely exists due to the different maternity systems and the blocks placed on practice by the obs. Your mw training is reliant on the experiences you are able to access. For example, as a direct entry mw in the UK my training began in the community with a community midwife providing midwifery-led care with a family focus. By the end of our course we were expected to be able to provide total care for 'normal' women (including suturing). I realise that I have a limited viewpoint at present, but I have noticed that the mainstream perception of midwives is that we are nurses with a mid specialisation, and even refer to each other as nurses. People are getting a
RE: [ozmidwifery] transition
This is what I found and liked: http://www.birthingnaturally.net/birth/transition.html What is Transition Like? Not all women have a transition, in fact 1/3 of women dont seem to have a specific time of transition. Another 1/3 of women claim that transition was not any more difficult than the rest of labor, and 1/3 claim it was the worst part of labor. Transition is the time that your body is completing dilation and preparing to push your baby out. It is generally very intense with contractions right on top of each other, and sometimes with double peaks. But it is also the shortest part of labor, generally lasting 15 minutes to half an hour. You will recognize transition by the desire to give up. This is when women claim they just cant do it anymore. Most women begin to doubt their ability to go on, and may seem to forget that they are in labor to give birth to a baby. This is also the time in labor when most women ask for something to help them with the pain. Transition is also recognizable by various physical signs, which may or may not be present at your labor. Some women get hot and cold flashes, cold sweats, nausea or vomiting, shivering or shaking, hiccups, burping and a general inability to feel comfortable in any position. This is the most common time for the bag of waters to break naturally. When you begin to show these signs, it does not matter if you are dilated to 1 or 10 centimeters, it means you are very close to pushing your baby out. Many women find that when vaginal exams are done to access cervical dilation progress, their dilation is not uniform. Rather than dilating a centimeter every hour or two, they will dilate to 4 or 6 or 7 and seem to stop for a few hours. This does not mean that labor has stalled, as long as your contractions continue to get more intense, closer together and longer simply prepare yourself. Generally what happens is the body gets itself ready and then suddenly dilates the rest of the way in two or three contractions! Even if your caregiver is convinced that you have hours to go, do not listen. Instead pay attention for the signs of transition. When you see them be assured that you are nearly ready to push. Transition can happen at any point of the cervical dilation chart. Do not depend on vaginal exams to tell you how long you will labor; they simply are not accurate. Even if you have been given medication to stimulate contractions, do not expect your body to conform to a standard of dilation. You may also find yourself suddenly in transition before your caregiver expected. Copyright 2000-2004 Jennifer VanderLaan and Birthing Naturally Last Update December 2003 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxine Wilson Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 2:35 PM To: ozmid Subject: [ozmidwifery] transition Vedrana I vaguely remember reading something that I found meaningful in Julia Sundin's Face to Face with Childbirth. Hope I have the author and title correct - does anyone know? I haven't got it on the bookshelf as it is on loan at the moment. Does anyone else remember a transition description from it? I may be getting it confused with other material but I thought she went into the fear and darkness elements of transition. Maxine
RE: [ozmidwifery] transition
Maxine the title and author are correct Face to Face with childbirth by Julia Sundin. Vedrana From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 2:52 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] transition This is what I found and liked: http://www.birthingnaturally.net/birth/transition.html What is Transition Like? Not all women have a transition, in fact 1/3 of women dont seem to have a specific time of transition. Another 1/3 of women claim that transition was not any more difficult than the rest of labor, and 1/3 claim it was the worst part of labor. Transition is the time that your body is completing dilation and preparing to push your baby out. It is generally very intense with contractions right on top of each other, and sometimes with double peaks. But it is also the shortest part of labor, generally lasting 15 minutes to half an hour. You will recognize transition by the desire to give up. This is when women claim they just cant do it anymore. Most women begin to doubt their ability to go on, and may seem to forget that they are in labor to give birth to a baby. This is also the time in labor when most women ask for something to help them with the pain. Transition is also recognizable by various physical signs, which may or may not be present at your labor. Some women get hot and cold flashes, cold sweats, nausea or vomiting, shivering or shaking, hiccups, burping and a general inability to feel comfortable in any position. This is the most common time for the bag of waters to break naturally. When you begin to show these signs, it does not matter if you are dilated to 1 or 10 centimeters, it means you are very close to pushing your baby out. Many women find that when vaginal exams are done to access cervical dilation progress, their dilation is not uniform. Rather than dilating a centimeter every hour or two, they will dilate to 4 or 6 or 7 and seem to stop for a few hours. This does not mean that labor has stalled, as long as your contractions continue to get more intense, closer together and longer simply prepare yourself. Generally what happens is the body gets itself ready and then suddenly dilates the rest of the way in two or three contractions! Even if your caregiver is convinced that you have hours to go, do not listen. Instead pay attention for the signs of transition. When you see them be assured that you are nearly ready to push. Transition can happen at any point of the cervical dilation chart. Do not depend on vaginal exams to tell you how long you will labor; they simply are not accurate. Even if you have been given medication to stimulate contractions, do not expect your body to conform to a standard of dilation. You may also find yourself suddenly in transition before your caregiver expected. Copyright 2000-2004 Jennifer VanderLaan and Birthing Naturally Last Update December 2003 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxine Wilson Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 2:35 PM To: ozmid Subject: [ozmidwifery] transition Vedrana I vaguely remember reading something that I found meaningful in Julia Sundin's Face to Face with Childbirth. Hope I have the author and title correct - does anyone know? I haven't got it on the bookshelf as it is on loan at the moment. Does anyone else remember a transition description from it? I may be getting it confused with other material but I thought she went into the fear and darkness elements of transition. Maxine
[ozmidwifery] transition
Does anyone know where I can find a good explanation of transition during childbirth? What do you usually tell women about transition in childbirth education classes (or when asked)? Vedrana -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re:BF video
You're welcome! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joy Cocks Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:20 AM To: Ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:BF video Dear Vedrana, Thanks so much for the video...I love it!! Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLC BRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] BF video
Barb, can I mail you off the list about breastfeeding an adopted child? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Glare Chris Bright Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:50 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Hi, I have to add my cute toddler BF story. Last night I was invited to a meeting with a senator. Had to take the contingent - dh working away. Guan, 2.5 pipes up Titty, mum, I want titty I had to oblige. After I finished I pulled down my top, and got a mum, put your bra on properly She's Chinese, and I'm Anglo. It's always interesting to see people rearranging their faces so as not to notice an adopted child breastfeeding. Barb - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] BF video I have just been senta hilarious video (2MB). Mum doing a yoga handstand, baby crawling and knows where the good stuff comes from... Need I say more. What a laugh. On a par with one of my bellydance mates who is still BF a 2 yr old. 10 min prior to performance it was a loud Titta, Mum, Titta and when side one was finished Other side Mum, other side. God love 'em. Cheers Judy Do you Yahoo!? Messenger 7.0: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. You could win a holiday to see them!
RE: [ozmidwifery] BF video
Judy I have the video and can send it, my line is quite fast. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Chapman Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:42 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Any more takers for this one??? It will take a while for me on my slow line to upload. I will try to get on line about lunch time tomorrow to send to those who say. Cheers Judy --- Kate /or Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto please Kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Judy can you send it to me? Thank you [EMAIL PROTECTED] Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] BF video I have just been sent a hilarious video (2MB). Mum doing a yoga handstand, baby crawling and knows where the good stuff comes from... Need I say more. What a laugh. On a par with one of my bellydance mates who is still BF a 2 yr old. 10 min prior to performance it was a loud Titta, Mum, Titta and when side one was finished Other side Mum, other side. God love 'em. Cheers Judy Do you Yahoo!? Messenger 7.0: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. You could win a holiday to see them! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/2005 Do you Yahoo!? Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. You could win a holiday to see them! http://au.docs.yahoo.com/promotions/messenger/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
