Re: Japan
On 14/03/2011 02:51, Brian Walters wrote: On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:39 +1100, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 March 2011 08:32, mike wilsonm.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Control+shift+C doesn't work. Didn't want to pin it but started the process and cped from the box. 37°25'24.80N 141° 1'59.50E Interesting, I'm running GE 6.0.1.2032 (beta) on several machines and it works on every one Looks as if it's a new feature. I was using 5.2.1.1588 and Ctrl-Shift-C didn't work, but I've now updated to 6.0.1.2032 and it does. Mine's a much older version. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 14/03/2011 06:22, Boris Liberman wrote: On 3/13/2011 9:49 PM, Bob W wrote: Journalists are paid to write clearly. B Are they really? (purely rhetoric question) Anyway, this certainly deserves a Mark! From the look of the second explosion (much larger, directed upwards, obvious chunks of heavy debris) it appears moot anyway. I will be very suprised if we do not have a breach on our hands. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Japan
The situation in Japan looks dire. My heart goes out to the Japanese people. And it looks like two nuclear reactors are in trouble. CNN here had somebody reporting cesium released. Not good at all - melting fuel rods... Regards, Bob S. There's an article about it on the BBC site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12723092. This is the paragraph that puzzles me: To keep things in perspective, no nuclear accident has caused anything approaching the 1,000 short-term fatalities stemming from Friday's earthquake and tsunami. What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 3/13/2011 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B May be it has to do with radiation sickness??? When the effect, such as cancer or even mutations of the children of those affected by the radiation are not immediate (as in 'short-term'). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
2011/3/13 Bob W p...@web-options.com: This is the paragraph that puzzles me: To keep things in perspective, no nuclear accident has caused anything approaching the 1,000 short-term fatalities stemming from Friday's earthquake and tsunami. that is so disgustingly cynical. if you care to know what severe nuclear contamination does, point your google fu to fallujah depleted uranium - the faint hearted may not want to do an image search... makes you wonder what payroll the author is on... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 10:28, Bob W wrote: The situation in Japan looks dire. My heart goes out to the Japanese people. And it looks like two nuclear reactors are in trouble. CNN here had somebody reporting cesium released. Not good at all - melting fuel rods... Regards, Bob S. There's an article about it on the BBC site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12723092. This is the paragraph that puzzles me: To keep things in perspective, no nuclear accident has caused anything approaching the 1,000 short-term fatalities stemming from Friday's earthquake and tsunami. I suspect he means known. Not the only poorly-concocted (in fact, downright wrong) sentence in that article. It falls sadly short of the usual BBC standards. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Japan
On 3/13/2011 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B May be it has to do with radiation sickness??? When the effect, such as cancer or even mutations of the children of those affected by the radiation are not immediate (as in 'short-term'). a fatality is a death. A short-term fatality is therefore a short-term death. I've always been under the impression that death was one of those long-term things. It's a sloppily-written article that hasn't been well edited either. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
The plants look decidedly different on Googly earth, compared to the pictures on the BBC website. Only one chimney stack, for starters. Of course, the only photo available is: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23556015.jpg -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 3/13/2011 12:25 PM, Bob W wrote: a fatality is a death. A short-term fatality is therefore a short-term death. I've always been under the impression that death was one of those long-term things. It's a sloppily-written article that hasn't been well edited either. Oh, I see your point now, Bob. Well, I am not as sensitive to this kind of sloppiness as you are. Evidently, this could have been worded in a way that wouldn't allow for more than one way of understanding the author's intent. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 10:43, mike wilson wrote: The plants look decidedly different on Googly earth, compared to the pictures on the BBC website. Only one chimney stack, for starters. Of course, the only photo available is: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23556015.jpg My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
I think short term fatality means you die fairly quickly, like when you are in a collapsing building. This is distinguished from the cancer/leukemia/enhanced heath risks that can be caused from exposure to radiation. Radiation may shorten your life by 10-20 years, but falling bricks will end it quickly. I think this is the distinction he is making. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:02 AM, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 13/03/2011 10:43, mike wilson wrote: The plants look decidedly different on Googly earth, compared to the pictures on the BBC website. Only one chimney stack, for starters. Of course, the only photo available is: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23556015.jpg My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 3/13/2011 5:25 AM, Bob W wrote: On 3/13/2011 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B May be it has to do with radiation sickness??? When the effect, such as cancer or even mutations of the children of those affected by the radiation are not immediate (as in 'short-term'). a fatality is a death. A short-term fatality is therefore a short-term death. I've always been under the impression that death was one of those long-term things. It's a sloppily-written article that hasn't been well edited either. B I think the word they were looking for but failed utterly to find, was /immediate/ . But immediate death is such an awful phrase to use that well a* euphemism seemed to be called for and the author chose poorly... *Yes, proper English would have called for an euphemism, but that just sounds wrong to my ear. -- Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom! --Marvin the Martian. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
Possibly near-term as opposed to latent. -- Walt On 3/13/2011 11:40 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: On 3/13/2011 5:25 AM, Bob W wrote: On 3/13/2011 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B May be it has to do with radiation sickness??? When the effect, such as cancer or even mutations of the children of those affected by the radiation are not immediate (as in 'short-term'). a fatality is a death. A short-term fatality is therefore a short-term death. I've always been under the impression that death was one of those long-term things. It's a sloppily-written article that hasn't been well edited either. B I think the word they were looking for but failed utterly to find, was /immediate/ . But immediate death is such an awful phrase to use that well a* euphemism seemed to be called for and the author chose poorly... *Yes, proper English would have called for an euphemism, but that just sounds wrong to my ear. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
That's what I read it to mean. I think all this angst about a poor choice of words obscures the message. Concentrate on the underlying story, not the way it is being told. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 08:52:02AM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: I think short term fatality means you die fairly quickly, like when you are in a collapsing building. This is distinguished from the cancer/leukemia/enhanced heath risks that can be caused from exposure to radiation. Radiation may shorten your life by 10-20 years, but falling bricks will end it quickly. I think this is the distinction he is making. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:02 AM, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 13/03/2011 10:43, mike wilson wrote: The plants look decidedly different on Googly earth, compared to the pictures on the BBC website. Only one chimney stack, for starters. Of course, the only photo available is: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23556015.jpg My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. ?I found the big bang one. ?Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:56:53AM +0100, eckinator wrote: 2011/3/13 Bob W p...@web-options.com: This is the paragraph that puzzles me: To keep things in perspective, no nuclear accident has caused anything approaching the 1,000 short-term fatalities stemming from Friday's earthquake and tsunami. that is so disgustingly cynical. if you care to know what severe nuclear contamination does, point your google fu to fallujah depleted uranium - the faint hearted may not want to do an image search... makes you wonder what payroll the author is on... Really? Should we also wonder if you are on the payroll of a coal or oil company, because you produce a one-sided condemnation of nuclear power? You might want to take a look at a short science fiction story from 1954, On the Feasibility of Coal Driven Power Stations, written by O.R. Frisch. That might put some things into perspective. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
2011/3/13 John Francis jo...@panix.com: that is so disgustingly cynical. if you care to know what severe nuclear contamination does, point your google fu to fallujah depleted uranium - the faint hearted may not want to do an image search... makes you wonder what payroll the author is on... Really? Should we also wonder if you are on the payroll of a coal or oil company, because you produce a one-sided condemnation of nuclear power? John, IMO it is a valid question to ask - almost all media pursue a political agenda of some kind and almost all political powers try to control the media in some way, either by ownership or other direct/indirect influence or by censorship. my statement on the other hand was an expression of my disbelief of the statement quoted and my puzzlement at what the author was trying to say. I'm still not sure but the impression on me is he is trying to make it look not all that bad... what would be the point of that? I can't think of anything else but to convince people that nuclear contamination to the point of potentially causing 200K+ people to lose their homes isn't such a big deal. but I am open to another explanation if you feel I misread that paragraph. but there was nothing in my statement to make oil or coal look better. I prefer sustainable energy and I even more prefer reducing my consumption. You might want to take a look at a short science fiction story from 1954, On the Feasibility of Coal Driven Power Stations, written by O.R. Frisch. That might put some things into perspective. I will. Even though I am not a coal man at all. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Japan
That's what I read it to mean. I think all this angst about a poor choice of words obscures the message. Concentrate on the underlying story, not the way it is being told. it's not possible. When the choice of words obscures the message you can only guess at what the message is. Journalists are paid to write clearly. When they don't they deserve criticism. B On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 08:52:02AM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: I think short term fatality means you die fairly quickly, like when you are in a collapsing building. This is distinguished from the cancer/leukemia/enhanced heath risks that can be caused from exposure to radiation. Radiation may shorten your life by 10-20 years, but falling bricks will end it quickly. I think this is the distinction he is making. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:02 AM, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 13/03/2011 10:43, mike wilson wrote: The plants look decidedly different on Googly earth, compared to the pictures on the BBC website. Only one chimney stack, for starters. Of course, the only photo available is: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23556015.jpg My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. ?I found the big bang one. ?Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 08:27:28PM +0100, eckinator wrote: 2011/3/13 John Francis jo...@panix.com: that is so disgustingly cynical. if you care to know what severe nuclear contamination does, point your google fu to fallujah depleted uranium - the faint hearted may not want to do an image search... makes you wonder what payroll the author is on... Really? ? Should we also wonder if you are on the payroll of a coal or oil company, because you produce a one-sided condemnation of nuclear power? John, IMO it is a valid question to ask - almost all media pursue a political agenda of some kind and almost all political powers try to control the media in some way, either by ownership or other direct/indirect influence or by censorship. my statement on the other hand was an expression of my disbelief of the statement quoted and my puzzlement at what the author was trying to say. I'm still not sure but the impression on me is he is trying to make it look not all that bad... what would be the point of that? I can't think of anything else but to convince people that nuclear contamination to the point of potentially causing 200K+ people to lose their homes isn't such a big deal. but I am open to another explanation if you feel I misread that paragraph. Try reading that part of the argument as saying: Don't lose perspective. There's a whole lot more disruption and death caused by other aspects of these natural disasters; focussing too much attention on the nuclear power plant will only cause attention to shift from more pressing problems. I'm not sure that's the whole message (or even part of the message) that the author was trying to push. But I think it's at least as plausible a reading as shifting blame away from nuclear power. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
2011/3/13 John Francis jo...@panix.com: Try reading that part of the argument as saying: Don't lose perspective. There's a whole lot more disruption and death caused by other aspects of these natural disasters; focussing too much attention on the nuclear power plant will only cause attention to shift from more pressing problems. I'm not sure that's the whole message (or even part of the message) that the author was trying to push. But I think it's at least as plausible a reading as shifting blame away from nuclear power. OK I'm prepared to blame that on my being a non native speaker but I fail to read any of that in the paragraph - how do others feel about this? And does being that ambivalent/ambiguous make it poor writing? Thanks Ecke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. There may be sites out there that allow you to do it easily. I've been thinking of writing a simple javascript page to do so myself because I need to get coordinates quite often. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 22:39, David Mann wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. In that case, I'll pass. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
I don't know, Bob. I've been considering whether to take a year off dead for tax purposes. Of course, seeing me taxables for 2010, I might as well have. On Sunday, March 13, 2011, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: On 3/13/2011 11:28 AM, Bob W wrote: What is a short-term fatality? Is it anything to do with the approach of Easter? B May be it has to do with radiation sickness??? When the effect, such as cancer or even mutations of the children of those affected by the radiation are not immediate (as in 'short-term'). a fatality is a death. A short-term fatality is therefore a short-term death. I've always been under the impression that death was one of those long-term things. It's a sloppily-written article that hasn't been well edited either. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 14 March 2011 08:39, David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. There may be sites out there that allow you to do it easily. I've been thinking of writing a simple javascript page to do so myself because I need to get coordinates quite often. Google earth coordinates are generally displayed at the base of the map and CLRL+shift+C will copy coordinates to the clipboard. If that;s too hard drop a place-mark and copy the coordinates from that or if all else fails open the map on-line in Google maps CTLR+alt+M and then on the web page right click and select what's here from the menu, the coordinates will then appear in the search window. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 21:35, eckinator wrote: 2011/3/13 John Francisjo...@panix.com: Try reading that part of the argument as saying: Don't lose perspective. There's a whole lot more disruption and death caused by other aspects of these natural disasters; focussing too much attention on the nuclear power plant will only cause attention to shift from more pressing problems. I'm not sure that's the whole message (or even part of the message) that the author was trying to push. But I think it's at least as plausible a reading as shifting blame away from nuclear power. OK I'm prepared to blame that on my being a non native speaker but I fail to read any of that in the paragraph - how do others feel about this? And does being that ambivalent/ambiguous make it poor writing? Thanks Ecke I'm with Bob in that the article is so ambiguous as well as riddled with inaccuracies that it is not possible to divine the intentions of the writer. Which should have been to merely provide clear and precise information. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 23:17, Rob Studdert wrote: On 14 March 2011 08:39, David Mannd...@multisport.net.nz wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. There may be sites out there that allow you to do it easily. I've been thinking of writing a simple javascript page to do so myself because I need to get coordinates quite often. Google earth coordinates are generally displayed at the base of the map and CLRL+shift+C will copy coordinates to the clipboard. If that;s too hard drop a place-mark and copy the coordinates from that or if all else fails open the map on-line in Google maps CTLR+alt+M and then on the web page right click and select what's here from the menu, the coordinates will then appear in the search window. Control+shift+C doesn't work. Didn't want to pin it but started the process and cped from the box. 37°25'24.80N 141° 1'59.50E -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Japan
-Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of mike wilson Sent: 13 March 2011 21:14 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Japan On 13/03/2011 22:39, David Mann wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. In that case, I'll pass. not entirely sure what you're after, but you can get waypoints and so on from gmaps-pedometer, which doesn't measure how much of a pedo you are, but helps plot routes. You can download them as text files which I think use UTM coordinates. http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 13/03/2011 23:37, Bob W wrote: -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of mike wilson Sent: 13 March 2011 21:14 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Japan On 13/03/2011 22:39, David Mann wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. In that case, I'll pass. not entirely sure what you're after, but you can get waypoints and so on from gmaps-pedometer, which doesn't measure how much of a pedo you are, but helps plot routes. You can download them as text files which I think use UTM coordinates. http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ I just wanted to send the co-ordinates of a place I was looking at to someone but there didn't seem to be an easy way to extract them from Google Earth. And there isn't. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On Mar 14, 2011, at 10:14 AM, mike wilson wrote: On 13/03/2011 22:39, David Mann wrote: On Mar 13, 2011, at 11:02 PM, mike wilson wrote: My mistake: there are at least three nuclear plants on that coast plus at least one coal fired one. I found the big bang one. Anyone know how to capture coordinates from GE? Yes. It's a pain in the arse. In that case, I'll pass. Ah, I misread and thought you were using Google Maps, not Google Earth. Sorry about that. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 14 March 2011 08:32, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Control+shift+C doesn't work. Didn't want to pin it but started the process and cped from the box. 37°25'24.80N 141° 1'59.50E Interesting, I'm running GE 6.0.1.2032 (beta) on several machines and it works on every one -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
It works on GE 6.1.7600.0...just put the cursor over the spot you want to locate and see the lat/long at the bottom of the window. On 3/13/2011 7:39 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 14 March 2011 08:32, mike wilsonm.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Control+shift+C doesn't work. Didn't want to pin it but started the process and cped from the box. 37°25'24.80N 141° 1'59.50E Interesting, I'm running GE 6.0.1.2032 (beta) on several machines and it works on every one -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:39 +1100, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 March 2011 08:32, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Control+shift+C doesn't work. Didn't want to pin it but started the process and cped from the box. 37°25'24.80N 141° 1'59.50E Interesting, I'm running GE 6.0.1.2032 (beta) on several machines and it works on every one Looks as if it's a new feature. I was using 5.2.1.1588 and Ctrl-Shift-C didn't work, but I've now updated to 6.0.1.2032 and it does. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Japan
On 3/13/2011 9:49 PM, Bob W wrote: Journalists are paid to write clearly. B Are they really? (purely rhetoric question) Anyway, this certainly deserves a Mark! Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Japan has spoken
Probably not. I suppose what they are saying is, that they will put in the best sensor available (best in regard to the number of pixels) at any time. The hardware/firmware will allow this - and is not restricted to a certain size of the sensor. I doubt that Pentax will offer such upgrades to customers, who own earlier models. But if they did - it would be a sensation. Giving us back one of the advantages of film. Perhaps camera manufacturers will some day even make user changeable sensors - so we could all have three lenses, three viewfinders and three sensors in the camera bag??!! Dust cleaning might be easier - and more often necessary. Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Digital Image Studio Sendt: 21. september 2006 02:14 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: Japan has spoken On 21/09/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not entirely certain that I understand what that means. Does it mean that there will be updates available as new sensors come about for existing bodies? or that there will be follow on bodies? or ... ? I think the rough translation is that; they think it's a great idea, it's in the labs but it's no where near being an actual product in the near future. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 09/19/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 09/21/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
Op Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:48:07 +0200 schreef Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Probably not. I suppose what they are saying is, that they will put in the best sensor available (best in regard to the number of pixels) at any time. The hardware/firmware will allow this - and is not restricted to a certain size of the sensor. Actually, I think they say: We'll start with a model with the KAF18000 sensor. If money market permit, a model with the KAF31600 sensor will follow shortly. Note that these two sensors have the same physical dimensions. If size were not a problem, Pentax could claim to go up to 39Mp in the near future (with the larger KAF39000), and they didn't... See http://www.kodak.com/US/en/dpq/site/SENSORS/name/ISSFullFrameProductFamily for details. I doubt that Pentax will offer such upgrades to customers, who own earlier models. But if they did - it would be a sensation. Giving us back one of the advantages of film. I have been wondering what Pentax is doing with all the room where the film holder used to sit. But I seriously doubt that they used it to make the sensor exchangeable... -- Regards, Lucas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Japan has spoken
Lucas wrote: I have been wondering what Pentax is doing with all the room where the film holder used to sit. But I seriously doubt that they used it to make the sensor exchangeable... So do I, but its a nice idea - for consumers - being able to upgrade without ditching the whole camera. Perhaps upgrades can be done as part of a factory/service shop CLA? I guess a digital camera with a changeable back (Hassie, Rolleiflex) would be a better choise, then. But these are considered compeditors to the D645, right? Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Lucas Rijnders Sendt: 22. september 2006 09:21 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: Japan has spoken Op Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:48:07 +0200 schreef Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Probably not. I suppose what they are saying is, that they will put in the best sensor available (best in regard to the number of pixels) at any time. The hardware/firmware will allow this - and is not restricted to a certain size of the sensor. Actually, I think they say: We'll start with a model with the KAF18000 sensor. If money market permit, a model with the KAF31600 sensor will follow shortly. Note that these two sensors have the same physical dimensions. If size were not a problem, Pentax could claim to go up to 39Mp in the near future (with the larger KAF39000), and they didn't... See http://www.kodak.com/US/en/dpq/site/SENSORS/name/ISSFullFrameProductFamily for details. I doubt that Pentax will offer such upgrades to customers, who own earlier models. But if they did - it would be a sensation. Giving us back one of the advantages of film. I have been wondering what Pentax is doing with all the room where the film holder used to sit. But I seriously doubt that they used it to make the sensor exchangeable... -- Regards, Lucas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 09/22/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 09/22/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Japan has spoken
Forgot to say DA* 16-50 expected march 2007 DA* 50-135 ditto DA* 60-250 during 2007 Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Øsleby Sent: 21. september 2006 01:02 To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: Japan has spoken http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200646.html The three expected zoom lenses (sure looking cool), And the 645D. Very vague press release. Babaelfish translated It is the plan that this product, in the future, modifies the image pickup element, raises the number of effective pixels in 30M pixel class. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
english version is here: http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/news/2006/200646.html On 9/20/06, Tim Øsleby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgot to say DA* 16-50 expected march 2007 DA* 50-135 ditto DA* 60-250 during 2007 Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Øsleby Sent: 21. september 2006 01:02 To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: Japan has spoken http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200646.html The three expected zoom lenses (sure looking cool), And the 645D. Very vague press release. Babaelfish translated It is the plan that this product, in the future, modifies the image pickup element, raises the number of effective pixels in 30M pixel class. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Perry Pellechia Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On Sep 20, 2006, at 4:12 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200646.html The three expected zoom lenses (sure looking cool), And the 645D. Very vague press release. Babaelfish translated It is the plan that this product, in the future, modifies the image pickup element, raises the number of effective pixels in 30M pixel class. In the English version of the press release, it says: This product will be continuously upgraded by incorporating newly developed image sensors, with its final effective megapixels expected to reach a 30-megapixel level. I'm not entirely certain that I understand what that means. Does it mean that there will be updates available as new sensors come about for existing bodies? or that there will be follow on bodies? or ... ? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On 9/20/06 7:12 PM, Tim Øsleby, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DA* 16-50 expected march 2007 DA* 50-135 ditto For the fast zoom, their size look very comfortable, particularly the 16-50. If one of the larger companies made them, it's going to be huge. Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On 21/09/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not entirely certain that I understand what that means. Does it mean that there will be updates available as new sensors come about for existing bodies? or that there will be follow on bodies? or ... ? I think the rough translation is that; they think it's a great idea, it's in the labs but it's no where near being an actual product in the near future. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
Either way it could be good news. I might even prefer that it means follow up bodies. That will make the early ones affordable. On Sep 20, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 20, 2006, at 4:12 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200646.html The three expected zoom lenses (sure looking cool), And the 645D. Very vague press release. Babaelfish translated It is the plan that this product, in the future, modifies the image pickup element, raises the number of effective pixels in 30M pixel class. In the English version of the press release, it says: This product will be continuously upgraded by incorporating newly developed image sensors, with its final effective megapixels expected to reach a 30-megapixel level. I'm not entirely certain that I understand what that means. Does it mean that there will be updates available as new sensors come about for existing bodies? or that there will be follow on bodies? or ... ? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote: I think the rough translation is that; they think it's a great idea, it's in the labs but it's no where near being an actual product in the near future. What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On 21/09/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. Where did you read that? -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
I'm not really at liberty to say. The press release is embargoed. Paul On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:40 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote: On 21/09/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. Where did you read that? -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
At 08:35 AM 21/09/2006, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote: I think the rough translation is that; they think it's a great idea, it's in the labs but it's no where near being an actual product in the near future. What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. Obviously? What makes you say that? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
See my reply to Rob. On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:41 PM, David Savage wrote: At 08:35 AM 21/09/2006, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote: I think the rough translation is that; they think it's a great idea, it's in the labs but it's no where near being an actual product in the near future. What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. Obviously? What makes you say that? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
Tim Øsleby wrote: http://www.pentax.co.jp/japan/news/2006/200646.html The three expected zoom lenses (sure looking cool), Luckily, by the time these babies ship, my finances will have had a chance to recover from the hit they're about to take rebuilding the engine, brakes, and clutch on our RX-7 race car. ;-) I'll definitely get the 60-250/4 if I can afford it. Might even get rid of the FA* 200/2.8, F* 300/4.5, and Sigma 400/5.6 if it's good enough. Naah, the Sigma might go, but the Pentaxes stay. :-) It /could/ be really expensive. OTOH, it might not. Less glass than an 80-200/2.8, for example. Makes me wonder if it might even come in under US$ 1000. The last time I looked, the 80-200/2.8, if you could find one, was running north of US$ 1,200, IIRC. Very high probability I'll get the 16-50/2.8 if (a) I can afford it after buying the K10D and the 60-250/4, and (b) it provides better image quality than the 16-45/4 that I have. The speed isn't as big a deal for me in this case, though it would surely be nice. The 50-135/2.8 doesn't do much for me on paper, but I'll reserve judgement until it's out and we've given it some tests. And I see how much it costs. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
Can you tell us if it has that killer feature that would make you give up medium format??? :-) Tom C. From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan has spoken Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:50:49 -0400 I'm not really at liberty to say. The press release is embargoed. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
K.Takeshita wrote: On 9/20/06 7:12 PM, Tim Øsleby, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DA* 16-50 expected march 2007 DA* 50-135 ditto For the fast zoom, their size look very comfortable, particularly the 16-50. If one of the larger companies made them, it's going to be huge. Ken And indestructible, which is the main reason for the size and weight of the Canikon 2.8 zooms. Compare the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 to the other options. The difference is while the Tamron is well put together, it won't survive bashing about. Personally, I'm willing to give up a bit of build for the ability to carry more in my bag (or conversely, travel lighter). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
Yes, it might. But I really can't say:-; On Sep 20, 2006, at 9:55 PM, Tom C wrote: Can you tell us if it has that killer feature that would make you give up medium format??? :-) Tom C. From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan has spoken Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:50:49 -0400 I'm not really at liberty to say. The press release is embargoed. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
On 21/09/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not really at liberty to say. The press release is embargoed. LOL. You've made my day :-) -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan has spoken
OK. I have. That's not obvious ;-) Dave At 08:53 AM 21/09/2006, Paul Stenquist wrote: See my reply to Rob. On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:41 PM, David Savage wrote: At 08:35 AM 21/09/2006, Paul Stenquist wrote: What it are you referring to? Obviously the 645D is close to production. Obviously? What makes you say that? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On 8/25/06, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the first time since I've been using Pentax on a regular basis, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. That's the train grin -- Best regards, Alex Sarbu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Jack Davis wrote: Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. Hah -- you'll feel pretty silly for saying that once the camera is announced. Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Get hold of yourself, Paul. Certainly didn't mean to offend. I happened to have been thinking of Pentax when I read the article. (I wouldn't have thought that too surprising). I'm not necessarily a Pentax worshiper, I do have a number of their lenses which have been generally equal to my needs. I'd find it convenient to stay with Pentax, but a brand jump is not precluded. Tech evolution will be the determining factor. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I think you've expressed a shared feeling that has just not been given a voice. Expressing frustration with the manufacturer is not bashing the product. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Well, I never would have bought a D, but the DS2 had me at hello. Stupid enough to get the sale. The K100D's anti-shake is a pretty big deal, and the price difference between it and the ten MP body will likely continue to fuel sales of the 100. None of these, aside from the original D, tanked. Had they not made them, how could they have sold them? -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 1:53 pm Size: 1K To: pdml@pdml.net That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I think you're looking in the wrong place if you want innovation. The most innovative thing that Pentax is doing is their in camera AS which looks to use an entirely different system than the Sony-KM system. Other than that, look for tried and true technology from Pentax. This means that they will probably be at least half a generation behind the other manufactures but probably with higher quality for a slightly lower price. Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I'm not sure the original D tanked exactly. It was priced as a semi pro model with semi pro accessories. It was a stopgap camera in many ways. The Mirror box looks to be a variation on the MZ-ZX cameras mirror box, you could fit a full frame sensor in it, and it's mirror seems to be the same as that in the MZ/ZX series. The Ds/Ds2/DL/DL2 have a new mirror and mirror box suited to the APS format. Aaron Reynolds wrote: Well, I never would have bought a D, but the DS2 had me at hello. Stupid enough to get the sale. The K100D's anti-shake is a pretty big deal, and the price difference between it and the ten MP body will likely continue to fuel sales of the 100. None of these, aside from the original D, tanked. Had they not made them, how could they have sold them? -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 1:53 pm Size: 1K To: pdml@pdml.net That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Innovation in the sense that they would have produced a more competitive product as opposed to variations of the same old thing. It actually strikes me as very very odd, that if Pentax has some earth-shattering 'secret up it's sleeve' with the K10D, that they have not pre-announced it to the world in the hopes of grabbing some of those Sony sales. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:37:24 -0400 I think you're looking in the wrong place if you want innovation. The most innovative thing that Pentax is doing is their in camera AS which looks to use an entirely different system than the Sony-KM system. Other than that, look for tried and true technology from Pentax. This means that they will probably be at least half a generation behind the other manufactures but probably with higher quality for a slightly lower price. Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? By interpreting what I read on this list. It's my opinion: I can form whatever opinion I want from the evidence in front of me. You may disagree with that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that this is how it sounds to me from reading all these bs postings and rants. I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. If you can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday what does it matter that Pentax should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner? They've built a fine set of cameras with modest variations on a theme, continuing to tune and improve on the technology along the way and relying upon a well-proven sensor (which they don't manufacture). All of them work well and take as much advantage of what went before as possible. To me, as someone who also can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday, this is a good thing as it points to an orientation towards conservative, developmental product strategy as opposed to an every-nine-months-a-new-thing-that- obsoletes-everything-that-came-before strategy based on riskier new component developments. I like cameras that work well and stick around a while, unchanged, and don't give a damn about new innovative products once a model is achieved which basically does what I need. The DS body does what I need ... it's fast enough and high enough resolution to suffice for my work now ... and I'm looking forward to the K10D body as I feel that the improvements it should offer (greater resolution, image stabilization, etc) will add another measure of capability to expand that work. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 11:53:25AM -0600, Tom C wrote: It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Pentax appear to have been (successfully) concentrating on growing their customer base - it's hard to argue that they've been wrong in doing this. As a result, their position in the marketplace is far, far better than it was a year ago. To have done anything different (such as, for example, spend more of the limited resources on creating an upgrade model for their small installed base of existing Pentax DSLR owners), would, if you ask me, have been far more stupid than creating yet more (and ever cheaper) variations on the 6MP sensor. The cameras they have produced seem to be selling very well. Personally, I'd have liked a replacement for my aging *ist-D some time ago. But I'd rather wait a year while Pentax take the one-time opportunity to grab more of the first-time DSLR purchasers than have a K1D now, and see Pentax follow Minolta into history. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Tanked in the sense that they had them in stock long after production ceased. -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 2:44 pm Size: 3K To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net I'm not sure the original D tanked exactly. It was priced as a semi pro model with semi pro accessories. It was a stopgap camera in many ways. The Mirror box looks to be a variation on the MZ-ZX cameras mirror box, you could fit a full frame sensor in it, and it's mirror seems to be the same as that in the MZ/ZX series. The Ds/Ds2/DL/DL2 have a new mirror and mirror box suited to the APS format. Aaron Reynolds wrote: Well, I never would have bought a D, but the DS2 had me at hello. Stupid enough to get the sale. The K100D's anti-shake is a pretty big deal, and the price difference between it and the ten MP body will likely continue to fuel sales of the 100. None of these, aside from the original D, tanked. Had they not made them, how could they have sold them? -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 1:53 pm Size: 1K To: pdml@pdml.net That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
For all practical purposes, the original D sold out as well. It certainly didn't tank. I still prefer it over the other D cameras. But that's mainly because the dual dials and the battery grip make it a better choice for most of the work I do. Sales were relatively brisk for quite a while. I think BH is the only seller that has some left, and they reportedly have just a few. Used prices are okay as well. One went for $700 just the other day. It will be interesting to see what mine brings. It's at $400 now on ebay, so it's going to sell, only the amount is in doubt. Paul -- Original message -- From: Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I never would have bought a D, but the DS2 had me at hello. Stupid enough to get the sale. The K100D's anti-shake is a pretty big deal, and the price difference between it and the ten MP body will likely continue to fuel sales of the 100. None of these, aside from the original D, tanked. Had they not made them, how could they have sold them? -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 1:53 pm Size: 1K To: pdml@pdml.net That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:40:46 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? By interpreting what I read on this list. It's my opinion: I can form whatever opinion I want from the evidence in front of me. So now you know your formed opinion may be wrong. :-) And by your logic, what's wrong with other's evaluating the evidence and stating their opinion? You may disagree with that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that this is how it sounds to me from reading all these bs postings and rants. I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. If you can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday what does it matter that Pentax should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner? Because if they had a higher spec'd body it wouldn't be a whole new system, and maybe I can afford that. Yes I realize you don't consider camera gear an investment, but some of us may buy 5 DLSR's, some 2, some only 1. So making the choice that's right for us individually is important. They've built a fine set of cameras with modest variations on a theme, continuing to tune and improve on the technology along the way and relying upon a well-proven sensor (which they don't manufacture). All of them work well and take as much advantage of what went before as possible. To me, as someone who also can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday, this is a good thing as it points to an orientation towards conservative, developmental product strategy as opposed to an every-nine-months-a-new-thing-that- obsoletes-everything-that-came-before strategy based on riskier new component developments. I like cameras that work well and stick around a while, unchanged, and don't give a damn about new innovative products once a model is achieved which basically does what I need. The DS body does what I need ... it's fast enough and high enough resolution to suffice for my work now ... and I'm looking forward to the K10D body as I feel that the improvements it should offer (greater resolution, image stabilization, etc) will add another measure of capability to expand that work. G As Jack Davis adeptly realized and pointed out, I'm not bashing the physical Pentax product. I'm commenting on Pentax's strategy and marketing. I'm wondering how their decisions of the past and present will affect their future. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Define competition. Pentax has produced very competitive products. They've used them to build a user base and generate buzz. They haven't had a lot in the Photographic press compared to Canon or Nikon, but it's been steady, and more than I remember seeing in years. The *ist-D[x] models are often mentioned as a good or great alternative to the latest mid to low end offerings from the big two, and when Pentax's products are reviewed they often get raves. (The DA fisheye zoom is a good example, I've seen a couple of very complementary reviews of it, and what were you going to mount in on, a Nikon?) I haven't been that happy about the lack of *ist-D replacement either, but it's been fairly smart on Pentax's part for the last couple of years. Tom C wrote: Innovation in the sense that they would have produced a more competitive product as opposed to variations of the same old thing. It actually strikes me as very very odd, that if Pentax has some earth-shattering 'secret up it's sleeve' with the K10D, that they have not pre-announced it to the world in the hopes of grabbing some of those Sony sales. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:37:24 -0400 I think you're looking in the wrong place if you want innovation. The most innovative thing that Pentax is doing is their in camera AS which looks to use an entirely different system than the Sony-KM system. Other than that, look for tried and true technology from Pentax. This means that they will probably be at least half a generation behind the other manufactures but probably with higher quality for a slightly lower price. Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Since they maintained a list price well above it's capabilities, I think that is was a calculation. The *ist-D had a semi pro build and controls. They needed it in the line to maintain a product in the range that the K10 will inhabit. I think it's telling that the *ist-D disappeared from the Official Pentax sites, (at least the ones I pay attention to and my conversational French is exhausted ordering an egg sandwich, we won't talk about my German, especially in German), within a week of the K10 announcement. In other words they didn't want to sell out until they had a real replacement ready. Aaron Reynolds wrote: Tanked in the sense that they had them in stock long after production ceased. -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 2:44 pm Size: 3K To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net I'm not sure the original D tanked exactly. It was priced as a semi pro model with semi pro accessories. It was a stopgap camera in many ways. The Mirror box looks to be a variation on the MZ-ZX cameras mirror box, you could fit a full frame sensor in it, and it's mirror seems to be the same as that in the MZ/ZX series. The Ds/Ds2/DL/DL2 have a new mirror and mirror box suited to the APS format. Aaron Reynolds wrote: Well, I never would have bought a D, but the DS2 had me at hello. Stupid enough to get the sale. The K100D's anti-shake is a pretty big deal, and the price difference between it and the ten MP body will likely continue to fuel sales of the 100. None of these, aside from the original D, tanked. Had they not made them, how could they have sold them? -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 1:53 pm Size: 1K To: pdml@pdml.net That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:52:57 + For all practical purposes, the original D sold out as well. It certainly didn't tank. I still prefer it over the other D cameras. But that's mainly because the dual dials and the battery grip make it a better choice for most of the work I do. Sales were relatively brisk for quite a while. I think BH is the only seller that has some left, and they reportedly have just a few. Used prices are okay as well. One went for $700 just the other day. It will be interesting to see what mine brings. It's at $400 now on ebay, so it's going to sell, only the amount is in doubt. Paul Not disagreeing here, especially about the dual dials and Hyp. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Tom C wrote: On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? By interpreting what I read on this list. It's my opinion: I can form whatever opinion I want from the evidence in front of me. So now you know your formed opinion may be wrong. :-) And by your logic, what's wrong with other's evaluating the evidence and stating their opinion? You may disagree with that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that this is how it sounds to me from reading all these bs postings and rants. As I said, directly above. An opinion is an opinion. If you can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday what does it matter that Pentax should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner? Because if they had a higher spec'd body it wouldn't be a whole new system, and maybe I can afford that. Yes I realize you don't consider camera gear an investment, but some of us may buy 5 DLSR's, some 2, some only 1. So making the choice that's right for us individually is important. And evidently you feel that what you bought was not the right choice? or perhaps I'm reading too much into your negativity. As Jack Davis adeptly realized and pointed out, I'm not bashing the physical Pentax product. I'm commenting on Pentax's strategy and marketing. I'm wondering how their decisions of the past and present will affect their future. As I've said, I like their developmental strategy. I have no opinion about their marketing. Neither do I care about any other camera manufacturers' marketing. That's their business. I hope Pentax is successful and stay in business as I do like their products, but they're success has nothing whatever to do with whether their equipment does the job I want when I buy it. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
That's probably true, but it was money that Pentax was probably not going to get much of anyway. They're still the affordable alternative. One of the problems with having to react to markets instead of making them is that you become a follower. Pentax's last attempt to make a market was the MZ-D, and we saw how that turned out. Tom C wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
They haven't had a wide product offering. They have, for the most part, (not all specs) produced *ist D derivatives that have been downgrades of the original. Even Canon's entry level model for the last year is generally recognized as being superior in many ways to Pentax's top of the line. Wait, does Pentax actually have a top of the line? If they wanted to produce a downgraded D model, just one (2 at most) was all that was needed. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:26:16 -0400 Define competition. Pentax has produced very competitive products. They've used them to build a user base and generate buzz. They haven't had a lot in the Photographic press compared to Canon or Nikon, but it's been steady, and more than I remember seeing in years. The *ist-D[x] models are often mentioned as a good or great alternative to the latest mid to low end offerings from the big two, and when Pentax's products are reviewed they often get raves. (The DA fisheye zoom is a good example, I've seen a couple of very complementary reviews of it, and what were you going to mount in on, a Nikon?) I haven't been that happy about the lack of *ist-D replacement either, but it's been fairly smart on Pentax's part for the last couple of years. Tom C wrote: Innovation in the sense that they would have produced a more competitive product as opposed to variations of the same old thing. It actually strikes me as very very odd, that if Pentax has some earth-shattering 'secret up it's sleeve' with the K10D, that they have not pre-announced it to the world in the hopes of grabbing some of those Sony sales. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:37:24 -0400 I think you're looking in the wrong place if you want innovation. The most innovative thing that Pentax is doing is their in camera AS which looks to use an entirely different system than the Sony-KM system. Other than that, look for tried and true technology from Pentax. This means that they will probably be at least half a generation behind the other manufactures but probably with higher quality for a slightly lower price. Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? I really don't give a rat's ass about what people think about the camera I carry. I do care about how I spend the limited amount of money I have because I can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday. It's also of interest because Pentax's position in the marketplace has a bearing on how quickly and slowly they bring new products to market. So far I think their stupid *ist D variations and now two more K100 6MP variations were a waste of resources when they should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:52 AM, Aaron Reynolds wrote: ... Why are people so obsessed with whether or not Pentax are in first place? Because they have nothing better to occupy their time. To people who think this way, the Pentax badge is emblematic, a matter of status in ownership. Me, I don't give a damn about Pentax other than that they have made a very nice set of lenses and good cameras to use them with. I make photographs. Having someone say That's a nice picture! or even, heaven forfend, buy one of my photos is far far more rewarding to me than having someone say, Wow, you must have a great camera! Pentax is doing really great now, eh? G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
No what *you* say is rubblish and implication. I did not imply they lost it. I stated they didn't get it. You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:27:44 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] And evidently you feel that what you bought was not the right choice? or perhaps I'm reading too much into your negativity. I'm not unhappy in general with my *ist D. There was actually no choice at that point because of the existing lens collection. The question is, will it be the right choice in the future? As Jack Davis adeptly realized and pointed out, I'm not bashing the physical Pentax product. I'm commenting on Pentax's strategy and marketing. I'm wondering how their decisions of the past and present will affect their future. As I've said, I like their developmental strategy. I have no opinion about their marketing. Neither do I care about any other camera manufacturers' marketing. That's their business. I hope Pentax is successful and stay in business as I do like their products, but they're success has nothing whatever to do with whether their equipment does the job I want when I buy it. G I know we, as a group, go round and round. probably unprofitably. The DSLR market is of course evolving and no once can tell for sure where's it heading. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Did you get your analysis skills out a box of Cracker Jack or what? What do you think it means? I didn't write the article. I just made people aware of it. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:22:29 +0200 Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. Tom C, If this is really what you think/understood (it may be simple understandable rant) then you might: 1/ Think again harder or open your eyes 2/ If you're so much unhappy with Pentax, why don't you move to Canon or whatever might suit you beter than Pentax? -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote: I'm not unhappy in general with my *ist D. There was actually no choice at that point because of the existing lens collection. The question is, will it be the right choice in the future? Why is this a question? If the camera you have is sufficient for your needs at present, and you're not certain yet that you need anything different, then I don't understand the desire to discuss these things that are of no significance, like Pentax marketing strategies. You might as well just enjoy using what is working well. Deliberate on the question of the future when it is salient and significant because you need new equipment. Otherwise, your interest in the discussion is, indeed, more emblematic or theoretical than practical ... to return to my original thesis. I know we, as a group, go round and round. probably unprofitably. The DSLR market is of course evolving and no once can tell for sure where's it heading. Nor is 'where it is heading' of any particular significance. I am interested in and buy camera equipment to do photography with, not to worry about where the development of equipment is headed. What I require of the equipment is that it performs the function I expected of it when I purchased it. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Sony's offering is however a lightly warmed-over KM 5D with a sensor Sony manufactures in it. Pentax is actually doing an all-new body, albeit with some common parts (AF, metering) and some distinctly unique stuff. Unsurprisingly, the Pentax will hit the market later. Pentax has more work to do than Sony did. -Adam Tom C wrote: No what *you* say is rubblish and implication. I did not imply they lost it. I stated they didn't get it. You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:27:44 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:29:16 -0700 On Aug 24, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote: I'm not unhappy in general with my *ist D. There was actually no choice at that point because of the existing lens collection. The question is, will it be the right choice in the future? Why is this a question? If the camera you have is sufficient for your needs at present, and you're not certain yet that you need anything different, then I don't understand the desire to discuss these things that are of no significance, like Pentax marketing strategies. You might as well just enjoy using what is working well. Deliberate on the question of the future when it is salient and significant because you need new equipment. Otherwise, your interest in the discussion is, indeed, more emblematic or theoretical than practical ... to return to my original thesis. There's always a matter of needs and wants. No one that pursues photography as a hobby NEEDS a DLSR, so it being sufficent for what one needs is not really the issue. I don't need lots of things that I purchase. Of those items purchased, many features I don't need, but I purchase a given model because I want those features. By way of example, you just purchased a vehicle, not because you needed those features, not because you didn't already have a vehicle, that all things considered, met likely 99+% of the reasons one has a vehicle to begin with. I know we, as a group, go round and round. probably unprofitably. The DSLR market is of course evolving and no once can tell for sure where's it heading. Nor is 'where it is heading' of any particular significance. I am interested in and buy camera equipment to do photography with, not to worry about where the development of equipment is headed. What I require of the equipment is that it performs the function I expected of it when I purchased it. Godfrey It's significant when one has a limited amount of funds and is planning a future purchase. Where a company is heading has a bearing on whether I put that money in their pockets or in that of their competitors., or just keep it in my own pocket. Talking about the future, speculating on it, and making predictions correct or incorrect, seems to be part of human nature in just about any circle of human endeavor. Stop being such a Vulcan. :-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
What is the point of saying they didn't get it, if you weren't suggesting that they could have got it? John On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:43:33 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No what *you* say is rubblish and implication. I did not imply they lost it. I stated they didn't get it. You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:27:44 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Well, John. :-) Are you suggesting they couldn't or wouldn't have gotten some portion of it, had they a 10MP DLSR on the market in the same time frame? Given that you would answer No, that's my point. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:49:29 +0100 What is the point of saying they didn't get it, if you weren't suggesting that they could have got it? John On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:43:33 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No what *you* say is rubblish and implication. I did not imply they lost it. I stated they didn't get it. You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:27:44 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:22 -0400 Sony didn't exactly grab 20% market share, Sony bought it, or at least bought the potential, when it bought Konica-Minolta. Sony just built an improved-upgraded KM DSLR which with the Sony name gave them a short time blip. Will it last I can't say. Tom C wrote: Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. It means price wars are going to escalate resulting in lower profits for all, but the bottom feeders will likely have the hardest time. When there's little or no profit left, incentive to make product A will wain. When there's little or no incentive for camera maker X to compete in the market, they will stop producing those products. It doesn't say anything about Pentax directly. I actually hope Pentax does well. What is rosy? Pentax is not Olympus. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:35:25 + I don't know what you're huffing and puffing about. The article doesn't say anything about Pentax. It merely recounts Sony's success. I think Pentax can expect much of the same. The K10D looks like it go head-to-head with the Sony and may well prove superior. Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article depicting market events that, unfortunately, will likely suppress the level of success Pentax might have otherwise realized had they not sat on the pot for so long. Makes me want to skip the K10D 'til I get a feel for the rate at which they are falling behind the curve. (Just venting a little). Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another article about Japan DSLR sales... pretty interesting. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101sid=aLpc_JK1YEwsrefer=japan Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Yep, no argument over how they did it. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:12:32 -0400 Sony's offering is however a lightly warmed-over KM 5D with a sensor Sony manufactures in it. Pentax is actually doing an all-new body, albeit with some common parts (AF, metering) and some distinctly unique stuff. Unsurprisingly, the Pentax will hit the market later. Pentax has more work to do than Sony did. -Adam Tom C wrote: No what *you* say is rubblish and implication. I did not imply they lost it. I stated they didn't get it. You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:27:44 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:03:03 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No market share is permanent. Let's just say the sales that represented that 20% were not money in Pentax's pocket. I feel fairly safe in the accuracy of that analysis. :-) Total rubbish, I'm afraid. If that money hadn't gone to Sony it wouldn't neccessarily have gone to Pentax, so you can't claim that they have lost it, which is the proposition implicit in your statement. John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Tom C wrote: Even Canon's entry level model for the last year is generally recognized as being superior in many ways to Pentax's top of the line. Wait, does Pentax actually have a top of the line? Not one that is anywhere close to current. By that same measurement, Pentax's own entry level model for the last year is generally recognized as being superior in many ways to their old, outdated top of the line camera that was only still around because of slow sales. Compare -- the *istD went out of production a significant period of time ago, yet brand new bodies were still available from Pentax a month ago. The DS2 went out of production and brand new bodies were available for two weeks after production ceased. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Among other things it's bad when Sony breaks into the DLSR market and immediately grabs over 20% market share when Pentax has been in the market for 3 years and has a much smaller share. Tom C, If this is really what you think/understood (it may be simple understandable rant) then you might: 1/ Think again harder or open your eyes 2/ If you're so much unhappy with Pentax, why don't you move to Canon or whatever might suit you beter than Pentax? -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I find it difficult to watch the competition usurp Pentax in satisfying market after market while they seem to be suffering from product constipation. If I didn't care about they're success, I wouldn't give a damn either. Jack --- Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Tom C wrote: On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Tom C wrote: That's not true at all. How can you make a judgement like that? By interpreting what I read on this list. It's my opinion: I can form whatever opinion I want from the evidence in front of me. So now you know your formed opinion may be wrong. :-) And by your logic, what's wrong with other's evaluating the evidence and stating their opinion? You may disagree with that opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that this is how it sounds to me from reading all these bs postings and rants. As I said, directly above. An opinion is an opinion. If you can't afford to run out and buy a new camera system everyday what does it matter that Pentax should have been concentrating on getting more innovative products to market sooner? Because if they had a higher spec'd body it wouldn't be a whole new system, and maybe I can afford that. Yes I realize you don't consider camera gear an investment, but some of us may buy 5 DLSR's, some 2, some only 1. So making the choice that's right for us individually is important. And evidently you feel that what you bought was not the right choice? or perhaps I'm reading too much into your negativity. As Jack Davis adeptly realized and pointed out, I'm not bashing the physical Pentax product. I'm commenting on Pentax's strategy and marketing. I'm wondering how their decisions of the past and present will affect their future. As I've said, I like their developmental strategy. I have no opinion about their marketing. Neither do I care about any other camera manufacturers' marketing. That's their business. I hope Pentax is successful and stay in business as I do like their products, but they're success has nothing whatever to do with whether their equipment does the job I want when I buy it. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
I only thinks you either do keep your eyes close or are not serious at all. Well I hope so, anyway... -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
You're not making a wit of sense to me that's for sure. If you read the article and my original post you'd see that I made no statement regarding the article other than it was interesting. In a subsequent post regarding the article I only stated what the article said with reference to Sony and market share. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:07:41 +0200 I only thinks you either do keep your eyes close or are not serious at all. Well I hope so, anyway... -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Tom C wrote: You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Doesn't matter Tom, you are happy with Canon, don't fret. You got there before any of us. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
On Aug 24, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Tom C wrote: There's always a matter of needs and wants. No one that pursues photography as a hobby NEEDS a DLSR, so it being sufficent for what one needs is not really the issue. I don't pursue photography as a hobby, but even when I did I often needed a systems camera to enable me to do the photography work that was my goal. I don't need lots of things that I purchase. Of those items purchased, many features I don't need, but I purchase a given model because I want those features. By way of example, you just purchased a vehicle, not because you needed those features, not because you didn't already have a vehicle, that all things considered, met likely 99+% of the reasons one has a vehicle to begin with. I purchased a new vehicle because the projections of its use vs the vehicle I was driving before would save me a substantial amount of money relative to my monthly expenses. The deal I transacted also took me out of the previous vehicle in an advantageous way, financially, so that it was overall a win-win situation. Is this want or need? Well, I need to be able to pay the rent, and I want to do it while enjoying the experience of my daily life ... LOL ... Stop being such a Vulcan. :-) Impossible. I was born Vulcan. Ask my mother. I would much rather discuss photography and photographs in the context of using Pentax equipment than speculate endlessly about whether Pentax has a marketing wit or not, whether the Fabulous Secret Feature of the K10D is a new whatchamacallit or finnegan pin attached to the tamper shaft, etc. It seems a much more worthwhile pursuit amongst both professional and hobbyist photographers for a Pentax camera forum, rather than making believe we're sage business strategists and more knowledgeable than marketing weenies. Godfrey Oh yeah, film is still dead. And all that. ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
No what I'm commenting on (maybe I should have been more clear) is that you compare the Sony market share to the Pentax one directly. This is what is IMO pointless. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
To get somewhere before somebody else presupposes that the other person is headed for the same place. That's rather a large assumption to make. Most of us here are quite happy to be here, and have no interest in following Tom's lead to nowhere land. John On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:13:45 +0100, Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Tom C wrote: You're right maybe they would not have gotten much of it anyway. In any case, Sony brought a 10MP DSLR to market before Pentax even tells us what the specs are on their 10MP offering. Doesn't matter Tom, you are happy with Canon, don't fret. You got there before any of us. Kostas -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
You are being disingenuous. Just because you haven't said a specific thing in this thread doesn't mean you haven't done so in other recent threads. You're a wind-up merchant, constantly wearing us all down. John On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:11:28 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're not making a wit of sense to me that's for sure. If you read the article and my original post you'd see that I made no statement regarding the article other than it was interesting. In a subsequent post regarding the article I only stated what the article said with reference to Sony and market share. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:07:41 +0200 I only thinks you either do keep your eyes close or are not serious at all. Well I hope so, anyway... -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
You think there's no comparison? I don't get your point. Please take this little test. Circle the correct answer for each question. Your score will be kept confidential. 1. There is a DSLR market. (Yes / No) 2. There is a DSLR market in Japan. (Yes / No) 3. At a given point in time a mfrs. market share can be estimated based on reported sales. (Yes / No) 4. That market share can be expressed in terms of percentage of the whole by the formula: Rate (market share) = ( Part / (Base ) * 100. (Yes / No) 5. If a mfrs. market share is Y and the entire market is Z, then the remaining market share left to be divided among the remaining mfrs. is calculated by the formula X = Z - Y. (Yes / No) 6. General mathematics are an accepted fact and the results of a formula are empirical. (Yes / No) Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:18:06 +0200 No what I'm commenting on (maybe I should have been more clear) is that you compare the Sony market share to the Pentax one directly. This is what is IMO pointless. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Japan DSLR Stats
Did I offend your gentile sensibilties? :-) Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:34:44 +0100 You are being disingenuous. Just because you haven't said a specific thing in this thread doesn't mean you haven't done so in other recent threads. You're a wind-up merchant, constantly wearing us all down. John On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:11:28 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're not making a wit of sense to me that's for sure. If you read the article and my original post you'd see that I made no statement regarding the article other than it was interesting. In a subsequent post regarding the article I only stated what the article said with reference to Sony and market share. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Japan DSLR Stats Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:07:41 +0200 I only thinks you either do keep your eyes close or are not serious at all. Well I hope so, anyway... -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
