Re: Bad mail habits... (was: 480x320 on Clie UX50)
On 2003-09-19 17:26:52 +0100 Michael Nordstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And to make things worse the mail also includes *everything* from previous messages in the thread. How about removing most of the old Top-posters and over-quoters on lists are routinely deleted by many (hey, it's our time), so http://remember.to/edit_messages if you want to be read by more people. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: MemoURL extension for viewer
Dave Maddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be cool to be able save urls in the pdbs metadata database which a conduit could grab at hotsync time and add to an inclusion list for that channel. If Plucker were to save URLs to memopad with a particular category, that may be sufficient for this. I have no idea how realistic that is, though, as I don't program the PalmOS viewer. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Changeset algebra is really difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: MemoURL extension for viewer
Chris Hawks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It all ready does this. URLs and Hardcopy both write to the memopad with a catagory of 'Plucker' (if there is is one, Unfiled if not). I missed that in the documentation. For archive searchers, it's in 3.1.2 The Main Screen. BTW: Mike released a program (many years ago), that grabs these memos and plucks tham into a Plucker document. (pluckerlinks.c) I can't see this in the distribution or CVS. Where is it? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Changeset algebra is really difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: MemoURL extension for viewer
masakazu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are conduits for windows and macintosh. MemoURL application and conduit for windows is available from: http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/6737/ This is not free software, which is annoying. Can you persuade them to relicence? More worrying, did your memourl.c and .h files come from it? If so, it would be difficult for it to be included in plucker legally. For people who wish to read plucker's URLs that are copied to memo pad from plucker, there is a short shell script called homesync on my web site (URL below then Software, Palm, I think). -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Changeset algebra is really difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: www.plkr.org: Plucker vs. AvantGo
Alan Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: take http://nelson.oit.unc.edu/~alanh/tmp/plucker-feature-matrix.html to use on their site, I've added a Creative Commons license to it. Or would You are discriminating against commercial use, so I think this licence is not very nice. Plucker can be used legally for commercial use, so why not its documentation? Also, it cannot be relicensed to allow it to merge with other material. the GNU FDL be more appropriate? http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html I think that something like the Design Science Licence, or GPL with clear specification of source form, would be more appropriate. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Changeset algebra is really difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: strike-thru in libraryform
Michael Nordstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 02, 2003, Alexander R. Pruss wrote: I assume you can turn this off? ARP Yes, and it is off by default. Argh! Another option! Why not use bold in the library to indicate unread documents instead? MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: getting changes in (and UTF-8)
Alexander R. Pruss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I myself don't need full UTF-8. I just need to make some quick-and-dirty substitutions for quote marks, apostrophes and long dashes. So if someone Look for unknown_charref in TextParser.py -- I wonder if this can be done in a more general way with a lookup table in helper? -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Thought: Changeset algebra is really difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Desktop: Follow only links that are sub-folders of the root source paths checkbox
Ken Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any objections to such a feature, or any technical obstacles in implementing it in Plucker Desktop? I think there's already a --stay-below=path option to plucker-build, so if Plucker Desktop uses that, it should even not be too hard to implement. It may be worth having a --stay-below-home flag added to plucker-build. What do others think? -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The important thing is that if you change the _source_ to the project, that those changes be available to the community, so they can benefit from them. [...] Note that while the above is the expressed wish of the maintainer (and therefore A Good Idea), the GPL only requires you to share with your users. This may be the same thing, though. -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: robots.txt
Blake Winton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wondered if Plucker wanted to start being a good web-citizen and honouring robots.txt. Plucker is not necessarily a robot, although it can operate as one. It should support robots.txt only when it is recursing into a site, not when downloading a single page, IMO. It should always support the robots meta. If that is acceptable and no-one beats me to it, I will try to code this into the main plucker-build parser later this week and send a patch. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: http://sourceforge.net/projects/plucker/
David Starks-Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Is it an intentional placeholder or forgotten or ... ? I don't think Sourceforge allows you to delete projects. You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: robustness of html error handling and plucker
Blake Winton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You say that as if it's an either/or choice. If Eugene wants to work on making plucker more robust, who are we to stop him? [...] Oh yes, plucker's Free Software, so if any new developer wants to concentrate on that, then go ahead. I just didn't want anyone having illusions about the difficulty. Tidy is not a new project and still is nowhere near fixing 100% of the crap out there. It's already possible to use tidy before plucker, so I also wonder how itchy the task is. I agree that calling tidy as a filter is probably the right way to do it with the least effort. I'd be disappointed if existing (very busy, as far as I can tell) developers stopped working on the wonderful things we're seeing and started with that, though. Just my opinion as a counterweight to the original request, that's all. On the point from lower down the thread: emailing webmasters of dud pages is probably worth an option. I don't really believe in options, but that would be a useful trick, but you wouldn't always want to do it. -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: robustness of html error handling and plucker
Eugene Y. Vasserman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] how feasable it is to have plucker handle obvious html errors intelligently. [...] It's rather difficult to detect how to handle these obvious errors. Normally, it means that the site authors' are depending on some display logic error of particular (groups of) browser(s). It is possible to locally mirror pages with a tool like wget and then use tidy to correct some errors, but even that is not infallible and they've put a lot of time into how to do it, so Plucker probably won't exceed that. It will still fail on some sites. It's a compromise: I'd rather Plucker developers spent time on improving functionality for real web sites (ie ones that are valid and follow guidelines) than tried to square the circle and understand the unintelligible. Wouldn't you? -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Tables!!!
Chris Hawks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: my IIIx. I may be the only person on the web without a homepage, so, I have nowhere to post them. Free hosting services abound. Please use. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Non-HTML (was Re: Back/foward/home function code)
Chris Combs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: s/\![^]*//g; Won't that catch valid things like CDATA? -- MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Back/foward/home function code
Laurens M. Fridael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] The Adobe SVG plug-in, for instance, is still way too heavy compared to Flash and there aren't enough good SVG authoring tools for designers, nothing that can compare with Flash MX, that is. [...] There's a conversation just started on [EMAIL PROTECTED] and it seems that SVG may not be in a happy place for free software either, because of patents held on some of its core methods. [...] It may not be your goal, but people see Plucker as an AvantGo replacement. And if you go the extra mile in supporting some of AvantGo's features that are relatively easy to implement in the Viewer - like the back function - you will ease over the transition. [...] Please, get your hands dirty and start work if you're convinced people will want this. It may well be the case that you have to maintain a PluckNGo branch so as not to load the main code with a lot of unnecessary baggage, but it should be doable. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Back/foward/home function code
Laurens M. Fridael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it seems that SVG may not be in a happy place for free software either, because of patents held on some of its core methods. Akin to the LZW patent used by GIF? I'll take a look. Actually, I think they're far more pervasive than that. With the GIF patent, there was only one and a better format that avoided the patent was possible anyway. Please, get your hands dirty and start work if you're convinced people will want this. It may well be the case that you have to maintain a PluckNGo branch so as not to load the main code with a lot of unnecessary baggage, but it should be doable. Right now, JPluck takes up all my programming time and there's still a lot to cover there. Maybe later. Indeed, I understand that, but I don't think any of the current core have the right time+willing available to do this for you now, so pleading will have little effect. Maybe it will encourage someone new to start contributing to plucker? Failing that, it will just have to wait. MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Bulletin Board instead of Mailing List?
Fringe Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find a mailing list nearly ideal. The only detriments to it are that the= odd message is flagged as spam by my filters and I haven't determined why,= You need to add the lists to your whitelist or scorefile. and that threads I care nothing about still show in my in box. You need to improve your mail filters. HTH, HAND. ;-) -- MJR| v ---|--[ Something else will appear here eventually, I guess... ]-| `--[ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ ]-[ slef at jabber.at ]-' ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Non-HTML (was Re: Back/foward/home function code)
Robert O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Others: maybe the marquee tag from MSIE 3.x days, and all the other non- standard crap that has come and gone over the years. Yes! We want blink in Plucker now! Seriously, has anyone who asks for support for standards-breaking actually thought the effect of it through to a conclusion? I think Plucker should be praised for taking a reasonably pure-standards approach on this. It's the only way that you can hope to keep things sane *and* moving forwards. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Re[2]: new manual in TexInfo format?
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't find any SGML format to be a particularly tractable source format. Reasonable for generated output, though. Or are there some good WYSIWYG SGML editors that I've just missed out on? qemacs can *edit* DocBook WYSIWYGish, although adding tags when writing new parts requires one to fall back to editing the code. I suspect extending it to do some tags without dropping back to text wouldn't be *too* difficult. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Table rendering problem
David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way I can build a table in LaTeX which will be rendered correctly once it goes through the LaTeX-latex2html-plucker-build cycle? Correctly in which way? I'd suggest a quick fix of making the table six rows of numbers countin up, which will mean the plucked doc is in the correct order at least. The same will also apply for some screen-readers, but I'm not sure that can be relied upon. MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Intellectual property (was: owner_id_build vs. copyprevention_bit)
Dennis McCunney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not entirely a myth, unfortunately. Show me the numbers. Real numbers, not the abstract estimates of publishers associations. Find a particular piece of restricted work and detect a disturbance in the sales series at the point where an illegally derestricted electronic version hit the net. [...] But in the case of Baen (and other success stories for the freely shared model) one important bit of my argument is common: the creators _gave permission_ for it to happen. It was done with thier knowledge and consent. Indeed. My point is that content creators will do well to authorise their fans to promote them to their friends in this way. If they don't, they are ultimately harming their own revenue and playing into the hands of the large corporations. Breaking a law is breaking a law, even if it is unjust. It should not be taken lightly, but this is an illegality that should not even exist. Creators, help yourselves by inviting others to help themselves! MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Intellectual property (was: owner_id_build vs. copyprevention_bit)
Terence Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why I disagree with the GPL as well as any DRM schemes, because it forces authors down a certain path. [...] You misunderstand the GPL's effect on author's rights. The GPL is only concerned with guaranteeing all future users the same rights as the original users. Please go read the GPL FAQ on the gnu.org site, but feel free to email me off-list if you can't see why you're wrong. MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Intellectual property (was: owner_id_build vs. copyprevention_bit)
Dennis McCunney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But most of the folks I know at the moment are writers, artists, and musicians trying to make a living out of what is essentially intellectual property, who are _directly_ hurt by unrestricted sharing of thier copyrighted work. I'm not concerned about loss of revenue by large corporations. I _am_ concerend about the welfare of my friends. This is an old myth peddled by the people who make money from restricting sharing of creative works. In the DRM world, the people who make the most money are the gatekeepers, the large corporations. Why does an artist want to cooperate with large corporations and make criminals out of people who appreciate their work? It doesn't grow their audience and just leaves people feeling bad. Experiences of authors who *welcome* their works being shared are documented in articles such as http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm (OK, so that's a widget frosting or related services model, but it still shows what a good way it is to become known. There are probably others, but that was the first I grabbed from my bookmarks). Personally, I'd go further and start looking for a way to provide work as copyleft, but then you knew that anyway. I'm concerned about the welfare of *all* my friends, but both producers and consumers. MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: owner_id_build vs. copyprevention_bit
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry, Richard, but I can't pass up pointing out inconsistent philosophy. the GNU GPL is exactly Digital Restrictions Management. I repeat: the GPL is enforced by the courts, not by software. Surely it is not even digital? MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: OT: Intellectual property (was: owner_id_build vs. copyprevention_bit)
Guylhem Aznar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Governments should not bother preserving outdated business models. Consumers should not encourage outdated business models. Go buy some copyleft work today. -- MJR| v ---|--[ Luminas internet applications http://www.luminas.co.uk/ ]-| `--[ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ ]-[ slef at jabber.at ]-' ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Plucker Desktop - Suggestions
Ken Findlay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Include the RTF2HTML program with the distribution (it's freeware) and It's an executable for Windows only and its licence is not free enough to allow it to be ported. Maybe a better idea would be to either provide hooks for it, and maybe other similar tools like antiword or plucker-oebps. 2. Provide an option for the user to specify the automatic generation of bookmarks form HTML or RTF headings. [...] Or a jump list based on id or name attributes in the xhtml. Not sure which is better. MJR ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: wipeout img (was Re: Thanks all)
Brian: It would be a bad standard if it required everyone to change all their old pages every time the standard changed. Where did I say it was required? I just said that pages that are that old probably have other problems... however, I suspect that the problem here is badly written HTML, rather than merely old. is what to do in that case? You've got a completely free hand for rendering illegal HTML, so you might as well pick something useful. There should be something to mark that an image existed, in my opinion. Maybe a command line option which defaults to [img] is the way to go, but dropping [img] markers is nasty. -- MJR
Re: wipeout img (was Re: Thanks all)
Kjetil: _I_ know that, but some of the people who create content I'm interested in, don't. I guess I could run everything through tidy or similar before giving it to Plucker, but it seems a bit overkill and inconvenient. Better than that, if some recalcitrant web authors are still using such tricks *and* not setting alt tags, why not send them an email? alt tags -- required for new pages since 1997... -- MJR
Re: wipeout img (was Re: Thanks all)
Dirk: Me too. I just commented out the following lines in /usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/PyPlucker/PluckerDocs.py: Argh! You're fixing the wrong problem! The real problem is not plucker generating img, but the document you are converting not specifying the contents of the alt attribute, which I believe is mandatory, even if it is set to null . Fix the HTML to actually be HTML (rather than this bastard not-quite-HTML) and Plucker will happily do what you want. -- MJR
Re: Virus issues (solution?)
David: Not a really good idea, since we send attachments to the list in various formats. We just need to probably de-fang Windows DOC/pif formats for the interim. Mark? We do? I see some patches and so on drift past here, but not much else. Why not just have these troublesome windows types to a blacklist? Other lists I know actually reject anything that isn't text/plain, but maybe that's too harsh for here. -- MJR
Re: Question regarding your Plucker product
[...] Instead, there could be
an additional program that the user runs manually which would read
the Memo database that has been hotsynced to the PC, would pull
out all the Memo records that were saved from the Plucker viewer,
create a temporary HTML file from them. The new program would then
call the parser to fetch all links in that HTML file.
I currently do something like this with the following command:
jpilot-dump -M | sed -e
'/^Plucker/,/^$/{;s/^Plucker.*$/h4\/h4/;s/^.*:\/\/.*$/a
href=\/abr \//;};/^[^]/d' home.html
(remove the line breaks), but it would be very good to have the Plucker
viewer write a bit more home.html-format-like links to the memo database
instead of just the URLs, then I could just replace this with:
jpilot-dump -M | sed -e
'/^Plucker/,/^$/{;s/^Plucker.*$/h4\/h4/;};/^[^]/d' home.html
and get more functionality to boot. I quite understand that providing the
full range of plucker options on the copy url screen isn't viable. Is there
another way to read the memo db?
--
MJR
Re: Suggestion: Copy to Clipboard
I'm wondering if you plan to include an option to copy selected text to the clipboard in a future version of Plucker? iSilo 2.58 does this, and it's the *only* reason I haven't deleted it from my Palm yet. =) I should have an auto-responder answer these =) What happened to the patch that could copy the screen to memo? -- MJR
Re: So about that 6000 dollars
Robert: This is a nice example of what David was discussing in regards to the heavy tolls being tossed onto the small independent content providers. So where are the people promoting Plucker in that thread? I only read my local palmtops group, as I don't have that much time or a particularly big stake in palms at the moment, but I often promote it there. -- MJR
Re: So about that 6000 dollars
David wrote: I've got a guy volunteering already to help with the php-based front end for Wucker (ok, I couldn't think of a name, Web Plucker), which is [snip] OK, I'll bite: php? Dear God, nooo! Is plucker going for a record number of languages used, or something? ;-) -- MJR
Re: So about that 6000 dollars
David: OK, I'll bite: php? Dear God, nooo! Is plucker going for a record number of languages used, or something? ;-) You forget whose house is right up the road, and whose house the Plucker server is currently colocated within... Rasmus Lerdorf, author of php. If I hammer the server hard enough, can I make it catch fire? (OK, poor joke, I'm sorry... I've just seen enough bad php to last me many lifetimes.) Seriously though, php is ideal for this over perl as much as I hate to admit it. It does lend itself well to session handling and form processing and very fast database access. All of which will be required attributes for this system to work. [...] PHP programmers should all make sure they read and *understand* Study in scarlet before being allowed to start work. I don't see that your comments make a decisive case. Libraries exist for many other languages, including perl, to do what you want and most of those languages are more powerful and elegant than PHP. Besides, I have a volunteer that knows php, and that's less work I have to do actually coding it. I can get onto other things taking up my time and burn through them. Yes, that's good, but are they going to help maintain it? I make it a point never to turn down a contribution or contributor. That is not a healthy statement. Again, I know that's politically incorrect, but that's the way it is. -- MJR
Re: So about that 6000 dollars
David: The language doesn't make bad code, programmers make bad code. Some languages make it easier to write bad code, however, but I think that's also dependant on the programmer's level of understanding of the actual code and the objective. TMTOWTDI. Language influences the way the programmer thinks, though. A programmer who has no concept of macros, closures or continuations probably won't miss them. One who is used to getting work done faster with them will be at least unhappy. If the language is chaotic, like php, then many of the programmers will write chaotically. Ones who know (and think in) other languages may be safe, as will ones who have learnt good programming, but most php coders seem to be self-taught. [...] I make it a point never to turn down a contribution or contributor. That is not a healthy statement. Again, I know that's politically incorrect, but that's the way it is. I meant 'turn down' from a morale and future contribution perspective, not from a Hey, we'll just toss this code in there and see what happens perspective. If you turn them down now, they won't be inclined to learn more, help you further in the future, or contribute. If you teach them to fish... Ah, I see turn down as more or less a synonym for reject, as in the contribution. Two countries divided by a common language, again. -- MJR
Re: Change the Palm OS requirement
I guess the number of devices running 2.0 are less than 1% and it would make more sense to strip out all the 3.x stuff from the viewer to create a Lite version for those devices (they are already low on memory). Anyone using 3.0 can upgrade to 3.3. Are you sure on that? I'm fairly sure certain Palm 3s are non-flashable and stuck on 3.1, while I know of some people using older Palm Pros which have had memory upgrades added. Is it possible to support multiple OS versions with #ifdefs, or is that going to cause a lot of pain? -- MJR
Re: wxPerl! YEAH!
David wrote: I'll see if I can get Robert's gui or parts of it working in this, just something to tinker with. You all know how I feel about Python. ...and you all know how most of us feel about *spit* Perl ;-) -- MJR
Re: I cannot delete one article
Gary: I use sitescooper to create about a dozen plucker files each day. I usually want to delete a file after reading it. I understand your logic though. I don't. I sync quite a few pages most times (when my Palm isn't ill like it seems to be at the moment -- that's the last time I use hacks on it!), but I usually go commandL and then delete the doc I just had open. Why shouldn't there be something to do that sequence for me and leave me in the library screen? -- MJR
Re: behavior of missing tag?
http://foo.bar.com/bletch.html#tag but there's no tag in bletch.html) is handled is to point the link to the beginning of the page which presumably would have contained the link (in the above example, to paragraph 0 of bletch.html). [...] change the parser to treat such URLs as excluded, just as with any other URL which doesn't exist. I have to support the other message which said that we should support current (bad) practice, rather than taking a hardline on semantic bugs. I'm all for excluding browser-specific features, but using the page instead of avoiding it for a missing id is probably arguably in the spirit of the spec, if not the letter. -- MJR
Re: debug.c
David: Oh, you mean you block browsers which don't adhere to the Microsoft standards... not the w3c standards... I see... ...and as I've just been saying elsewhere, manufacturer-controlled standards are no standards at all. Incidentally, I'm thinking of converting the basic README/FAQ/etc. text files in the CVS into an easily parsable format (XML, likely), so that I can pull them directly from the cvs to the website for viewing Can I quietly suggest using structured text (STX)? I believe there are modules for a few languages to render it as HTML, but definitely python... I think there's a guide on http://www.zope.org/ somewhere. MJR --
Re: Rookie questions
Brian: (1) Is there a way to look at archived traffic from this list? The Related question: how do I move to a digest subscription? (2) Does Plucker support horizontal layout of tables? The problem is finding a good algorithm for handling tables that don't fit on the palm screen, I believe. --
Re: move to Python 2.x?
There is an excuses or reasons file or similar which you can check to find out. MJ, can you please provide a URL for that file, so we could check on the reason? I'll look it up and get back to you. In theory, it should be readily available on the Debian site... in practice, as the testing branch is a relatively new development, it might not be. But my point was that Python 2.x for Debian is available. Depends how you define available. There exists a debian package in the bleeding-edge development branch, but you can't just install it on a system running the current debian release. I don't think that's available to most users. As to the I compile things from source people: well, that's fine and I used to do that myself, as an ex-slackware user, but I now value my system's integrity, so even if I compile it myself, it gets made into a package before it gets allowed into /usr. MJR
Re: move to Python 2.x?
2.0 is available in debian-unstable, but for some reason isn't in debian-testing. [...] There is an excuses or reasons file or similar which you can check to find out. The most common causes are not building on one of the debian core platforms, or something which it depends on has an unsolved critical bug. Python fans who use debian should probably take a look and see if they can lend a hand to fixing it. Having Python 2.0 in Debian 3.0 would be a very good thing, but if no-one who knows the python build process helps out, it sounds like it might not happen. MJR
newsrc files
Hi, I'm writing a tool to pluck news. Do any non-Unix newsreaders hold articles in a spool-like structure and use newsrc files? If they do, I'll try to write the one shell script currently controlling the build of the HTML tree in python instead. If not, I'll just document and publish, I guess. Thanks, MJR
Re: newsrc files
David: I'm writing a tool to pluck news. Do any non-Unix newsreaders hold articles in a spool-like structure and use newsrc files? There was a perl script out there awhile back that someone specifically wrote to put news directly into Sitescooper and Plucker. I know I posted it here in the list, but I can't recall when or what the tool's name was. DOH! 10lbs of potatoes in a 5lb bucket (my brain). It was on a .nl site IIRC. I'll search around and see if I can find something. OK, thanks, but I have this working from spool now (apart from a slight problem with the mailto) and it should be fairly easy to make it run straight off NNTP if desired. I've written it mostly in python because all systems using plucker should have python installed, right? MJR
Re: character sets in HTML files?
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As soon as we add an XML component to the parser... It's on my list. Should plucker just parse XML and feed non-xml stuff to tidy to reformat? Just an idea to simplify things. I think it simplifies things, at least. Actually, if you read the XHTML specs, you'll see that they refer you back to the HTML specs for many, even most, things. Indeed, but I thought XML was in unicode? Or did I dream that? Probably did, as I'm sure I've seen encoding=iso-8859-1 in some files, actually. -- MJR
Re: character sets in HTML files?
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been reading the HTTP and HTML specs about character sets. Shouldn't you be using the xhtml specs now? -- MJR
Re: Plucker Desktop GUI Manager
Andy Rabagliati [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I see more perl interpreters around than python. To install plucker on a shared BSD box, I had to install a private copy of python 2.0. perl has usually 'just worked' when I needed it. perl is more common would be a better way of phrasing it. I'm always amazed that perl continues to keep its foothold given some of the abominations and lack of standardisation which it permits. I'm equally amazed that people dismiss my preferred language (scheme) as a minority, when I think it's on about as many systems as python. Then again, this is going miles off-topic now. Let's take this bit off-list if you want to continue it. The plucker project combines 3 totally separate things :- 1. Fetch content 2. Convert / pack data for viewer. 3. View. Item 3 is outstanding. Yip Yip - Hooray. Sitescooper, IMHO, does a good job of 1, and needs some plucker help for item 2 (for the plucker backend only). Well, from what I remember of sitescooper, wouldn't it require yet another interpreter? Has it been ported to Windows yet? Maybe it is better to split the plucker-build into -fetch and -convert instead, though? However, since I am not in the position to contribute code at the moment, [...] I should just shut up.. Yes, I probably should too. -- MJR
Re: Plucker Desktop GUI Manager
Andy Rabagliati [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, from what I remember of sitescooper, wouldn't it require yet another interpreter? It needs perl. It leverages off plucker code to generate the DB - though historically plucker had a perl transcoder too. Well, we all make mistakes! ;-) Seriously, it would mean non-unix users having to download both of them, wouldn't it? I'm assuming they're not common yet. In that case, I think it would be a bad thing. -fetch is wget, sitescooper, any number of others. Now, using wget is an interesting idea, although it might require quite a bit of scratch disk space to get a site. -convert we do need. The intermediate form should be a file (files ?) with links relativised. This is interesting. If it was just encoding all files it found, it would open the possibility of including multiple sites in one plucker db. I'm not sure if such a thing is possible or desirable, though. -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.
Re: mailto links update
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This may be in Chris' court, and if he doesn't have time to look at it, I'll poke around in emailform.c, but.. subject and mailto modifiers are ignored when they're parsed into Plucker. Example: I'm mixed about this. Those modifiers are distinctly non-standard and I'm unsure that they're used in any consistent manner by the world at large. On an semi-related point, is anyone else seeing plucker occasionally goof when presented with a long URL to copy to memo? -- MJR
Re: Plucker Desktop GUI Manager
Robert O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: wxWindows is a cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit. Makes small footprint, fast apps for Linux, Windows, and Mac using widgets for the appropriate OS. I believe it uses GTK+ widgets on Unix, doesn't it? Examples of existing programs are Audacity (wav editor), and Mahogany (high-powered email client). Never heard of them. I'll go look them up now. The PLT Scheme system uses wxWindows, I think, although I suspect it is its own customisation of it :-/ I finished the initial draft this week. The 10 screenshots are here: http://www.rob.md/projects/plucker/2001_10_13/ (windows widgets shown). I'll go take a look. One thing that would be very useful is the ability to execute some command after a successful pluck, so that the plucked file will appear in the list of files to be transferred at the next sync. required. It is designed to be compact enough (~350 KB)to be left running in the background and update the channels on its own when the due time is up. Does it have to be running to do timed plucks correctly, or will it notice when it's next started that it's time to do some plucking? -- MJR Do you need advice about the Internet or particular net services? Why not talk to my employers? See http://www.luminas.co.uk/ for details.
Re: Plucker Desktop GUI Manager
Robert O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am certainly open to what to call the things other than channels; it is easier to specify the term now than more time spent rewriting things. [...] I vote for a pluckable (site), rather than a channel. To me, channel implies that you're going to be distributing lists of recommended sites with the application, which would be a definite misfeature IMO. Failing that, Plucked Document is probably the next best :-/ -- MJR
Re: Microsoft Word to Plucker convertor, 1.0
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any ideas on how I should go about this? Or should I just dump the idea and move onto other things? The output from Word to Plucker is fairly impressive. Much more impressive than Abiword's output or even the Microsoft native Save As HTML output. Ideas? Comments? Why not release the script for download? -- MJR
Re: CVS question
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cvs -z9 up -dP Which will add maxumum compression (probably overkill, but I'm in close proximity to the box anyway =) [...] What, so you can hear it catch fire when everyone follows this advice? ;-) -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =- http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ -- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer == http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Re: CVS question
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Is there some magic switch that has to be thrown to get a full update? -d I think. -- MJR Thesis watch: 30% This is my personal web site =- http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ -- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer == http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Re: Colour images and Unix
Kjetil Torgrim Homme [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Versions: ppmtoTbmp 1.1 from http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/pilot/ plucker 1.1.12 (tar.bz2) You'll doubtless be told: use netpbm not ppmtoTbmp. There is pnmtopalm in netpbm now. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =- http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ -- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer == http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Re: Colour images and Unix
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Compile and install that version and then do the following, *Please* suggest that people build or install packages for their distribution in preference, where possible. I'd hate plucker to be suggesting that people break their systems unnecessarily. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =- http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ -- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer == http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Re: Daily Dose
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The question becomes.. should we make this type of information available on the website? Or should we leave it off, because of the potential transcoding concerns? I think I know Mike's opinion on this one, but I'd like to hear from others. Maybe just having configuration file sections which we can download in some simple way is good enough? That way, we'd always get the latest info, whenever we sync. If anyone hasn't noticed, I'm trying to brush up on my perl a bit more because there's a whole bunch of new things coming soon... but I'd like to do something a bit more interactive on the site to keep people coming back. Not interested in a more modern language like Ruby, then? ;-) -- MJR This is my personal web site =- http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ -- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer == http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Re: This Program....
I'm sorry, but is this meant to be a request for help or a general rant? It's very hard to read. If you have specific problems understanding the documentation for the Windows plucker, I'm sure that someone who knows will help. Plucker is still under heavy development and not ready for world domination yet, I'm afraid. If you send useful help (eg specific questions) or money or hardware to the developers, it will improve faster. That's the way these things work. It's an end to spoon-feeding and the start of a partnership.
Re: Autoscroll MarkII
Dirk Heiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The first time i open the DB and see the new autoscroll control at the toolbar i was a little bit confused. I expected that if i see the run symbol (the right arrow) the autoscroll are on and if i see the stop symbol (the filled black square) the autoscroll is off and taping this button change the state. It depends whether you think of it as an indicator (showing the current state) or a control (showing the intended state). Showing the intended action is consistent with the other controls, I think. The other thing. In settings you could set the Autoscroll delay in Ticks, i guess many users with no programing experience are confused by the Ticks. Maybe give this setting in seconds a better? Do Ticks vary between machines?
Re: Modest patch proposal: Pixel tweaks to icons, autoscroll, narrow fixed font
Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: autoscrolling, a la CSpotRun. The default speed for scrolling is too fast for me, and I can't seem to slow it down enough (or speed up my reading :-) to make it usable. Seconded. Using large text, it's nearly usable, but it's just too fast otherwise.
Re: Modest patch proposal: Pixel tweaks to icons, autoscroll, narrow fixed font
Robert O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: as pressing down on scrollbar), but a double pixel scroll, (plus an overclocker like Afterburner) works quite nicely. Or can think about adding Ow! Eat my batteries with an overclocker just to scroll Plucker documents?
Bad manuals
After prompting on the newsgroups, I've noticed that I can't build the plucker manuals. This is because they are in latex but use some packages that aren't in tetex, most notably html, but also because they want to use latex2html instead of tex4ht (ht latex). Briefly, tetex is the largest standard tex distribution, so I'm slightly surprised that it's using things not found there. Also, tex4ht uses the latex formatting engine to generate html while latex2html reimplements a subset of it in another language. I suggest that the manuals are moved to use tex4ht and hopefully remain compatible with building with latex2html. If no-one is able, I will make a start, but it may be some time. But first I wanted to ask, is there a strong reason why latex2html is used? -- MJR
Re: Bad manuals
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alexander, can you comment? Alexander has emailed me off-list to say that it was because tex4ht doesn't exist for OS/2 at the time it was written. He also gave me lots of other useful comments. Can someone tell me what tex4ht availability is like on other platforms now? Also, is the hyperref package available on other platforms and tex distributions? Most importantly, miktex on windows, emTeX on OS/2, OzTeX (or whatever is the standard now) on Mac and 4allTex on DOS. Thanks, -- MJR
Re: From comp.sys.palmtops.pilot
David A. Desrosiers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike fixed strikeout and put a package on the ftp site: So I saw. It's started some argument over whether this is a good thing, as strike-through is deprecated. -- MJR
From comp.sys.palmtops.pilot
There have been some messages in comp.sys.palmtops.pilot about plucker recently. One regarding Plucker not supporting strikethrough (s isn't it?) which shouldn't be too hard to add? The other is reproduced below -- is there a problem with the mailing list? From: Peter W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [patch] plucker-build fails on HREF/IMG without full HTTP URL Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:27:51 -0400 MJ Ray wrote: Peter W [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have cobbled together a quick workaround which is attached below, but there really ought to be a better solution, right? Is this that problem with RedHat's python packages, mentioned in the Plucker FAQ? Could be. The FAQ blames Red hat 7.[01], but I'm using 6.2. Maybe it's not only RH 7.x that stinks, though I'm curious about the suggestion to install Python 2.0... perhaps Plucker doesn't work with older versions? You'd be much better asking this on the plucker mailing lists... I'd rather ask on the Plucker mailing list, but the subscription information doesn't seem to work; I got no response at all from my signup attempt. -Peter -- MJR
Re: Plucker Spider.py - stay OFF host option
Alys [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone have suggestions for sites I could test it on? I'm looking for sites that have two related domain names, like www.wired.com and images.wired.com, as David used in his example, I think http://icewm.themes.org/ uses http://images.themes.org/ but that might have changed in the recent re-organisation. Comments anyone? (I'm subscribed to the list now so you don't need to CC me specifically.) That's good. This list has reply-to set to the list which means wide reply doesn't work as it should by default. -- MJR
Re: Comments on plucker
Chris Hawks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, it _will_ add the URL to the end of the memo, if you don't exit plucker between 'Copys'. Time to update my copy of Plucker on the Palm side, I guess. Or do power downs count as exit to Palm apps? -- MJR
[comp.sys.palmtops.pilot] Re: Great new Reader with innovative scroll
I've seen the following program in the newsgroups and its method of auto-scrolling does seem quite smart, eliminating the LCD flicker we all know and love. Can I make this a feature request, please? ;-) Thanks. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot Subject: Re: Great new Reader with innovative scroll Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:34:48 GMT You have to try it to really understand. Basically it fills the screen with a page. As that page fills, the next page fills in behind it. If you have the scanning rate set right you are reading ahead of the fill and when you hit the bottom, you return to the top of the page and continue to read the subsequent page as another fills in behind that. The effect is much like reading a regular book. Instead of switching to the top of the next page, or worse yet, turning a page, you just flick your eyes back to the top. I like the idea of incorporating this in CSpotRun. However, from the developers point of view, even though he made this freeware, he may not want to give his code away. I think if he developed it within GNU, he would have to also post the code. END QUOTE -- MJR
