RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Of course I would have stayed there if the marriage had > worked out, but > it didn't, and I could support my kids (via the child support) living > there, so it was out of genuine necessity that I had to leave > that town. > I regret not having my kids with me now and pray that someway they > come to be with me eventually (hopefully sooner rather than > later) but I > leave it in the good Lord's hands. (Or fate for you non-believers.) Whatever you do, please be sure to keep seeing your kids on a regular basis. Once you lose that frequent connection it doesn't come back. You get shunted into a once or twice a year obligation. We learned that with Steve's daughters and are having a lot of trouble fitting back into their lives. My son has pretty much come around, as has one of Steve's daughters. The other daughter has been a tougher customer, though. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Then you're doing exactly what you need to be doing...reworking the > plan. I meant no disrespect, as I'm sure you know. > > I'm all for living in your dream house/area, provided you can find > gainful employment to meet the needs/expenses. When that's not > possible, you must move on. That's a big reason why Pine Grove never > worked out for meno tech jobs (for VFP!) anywhere near > there. I had > one that ended in 2002 but we all know it's been a "rare breed" tool > that we love. (Another reason to expand your toolset!) I am not offended by what you said. I'm 51 and my life savings is sunk into this property. If it doesn't work, I will be losing a lot. I've faced that fact that it might not go the way I want... But I'm certainly not at the giving up point yet. The new company will be Emryld Advantage. I'm still working on getting it all going the way I want it to go. McStyles Software, LLC is still responsible for all of the consulting jobs and the web sites. Emryld is everything else -- insurance, pre-paid legal, and so forth. I'll be licensed as a mortgage broker soon too. This is me picking up stuff that I'm interested in for online services. The market won't be depressed forever. We felt our property was worth far more than we have in it right now. That's a good thing since we are probably on the hook for around $1.3 million on it. Either way, if it goes down the toilet we'll be living on Steve's pension in a trailer park for a while. Obviously, I'll work as hard as I can to avoid that... But no matter what happens we'll survive it. I don't kill easily, and money isn't the sole definition of my self-worth. If it does go OK, we'll be doing well financially as well as having the property we really wanted. The trees and streams and views are really difficult to duplicate. I truly love it here. I'll go through a lot to keep it. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote: > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: >> Michael, >> >>> Sounds like you should move. >> The reason I've been reworking my business model is because I don't want to >> move. I honestly don't want to return to doing contract jobs for hourly pay. > > Then you're doing exactly what you need to be doing...reworking the > plan. I meant no disrespect, as I'm sure you know. > > I'm all for living in your dream house/area, provided you can find > gainful employment to meet the needs/expenses. When that's not > possible, you must move on. That's a big reason why Pine Grove never > worked out for meno tech jobs (for VFP!) anywhere near there. I had > one that ended in 2002 but we all know it's been a "rare breed" tool > that we love. (Another reason to expand your toolset!) > > >> I may set up an executive office deal somewhere that I can go one day a week >> so I can deal with clients in the city, but I won't be moving if I can help >> it. > > > I hope more and more companies embrace telecommuting instead of > demanding that you physically be in the office. I know my boss back in > 2002 responded to my request for telecommuting with this: "well, how do > we know you'd be working?" I was floored. I had just hit home runs > with my work at that place for 3 years, and he throws that shit at me. > Talk about small minded. He was (and still is) a great man, but I lost > a lot of respect for his leadership skills that day. That whole company > was using the East German handbook of leadership skillsvery outdated > /archaic. > > I hope it works out for you. I know I sure didn't want to give up > software development to do regular laborand that's all that Pine > Grove hadno skilled jobs whatsoever. God I'm glad to be here in > Baltimore. Of course I would have stayed there if the marriage had worked out, but it didn't, and I could support my kids (via the child support) living there, so it was out of genuine necessity that I had to leave that town. I regret not having my kids with me now and pray that someway they come to be with me eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later) but I leave it in the good Lord's hands. (Or fate for you non-believers.) ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Michael, > >> Sounds like you should move. > > The reason I've been reworking my business model is because I don't want to > move. I honestly don't want to return to doing contract jobs for hourly pay. Then you're doing exactly what you need to be doing...reworking the plan. I meant no disrespect, as I'm sure you know. I'm all for living in your dream house/area, provided you can find gainful employment to meet the needs/expenses. When that's not possible, you must move on. That's a big reason why Pine Grove never worked out for meno tech jobs (for VFP!) anywhere near there. I had one that ended in 2002 but we all know it's been a "rare breed" tool that we love. (Another reason to expand your toolset!) > > I may set up an executive office deal somewhere that I can go one day a week > so I can deal with clients in the city, but I won't be moving if I can help > it. I hope more and more companies embrace telecommuting instead of demanding that you physically be in the office. I know my boss back in 2002 responded to my request for telecommuting with this: "well, how do we know you'd be working?" I was floored. I had just hit home runs with my work at that place for 3 years, and he throws that shit at me. Talk about small minded. He was (and still is) a great man, but I lost a lot of respect for his leadership skills that day. That whole company was using the East German handbook of leadership skillsvery outdated /archaic. I hope it works out for you. I know I sure didn't want to give up software development to do regular laborand that's all that Pine Grove hadno skilled jobs whatsoever. God I'm glad to be here in Baltimore. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Sounds like you should move. The reason I've been reworking my business model is because I don't want to move. I honestly don't want to return to doing contract jobs for hourly pay. I may set up an executive office deal somewhere that I can go one day a week so I can deal with clients in the city, but I won't be moving if I can help it. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> > Business is business, and personal is personal. It's not rude when you > kindly reject his offer to use your services because you don't feel > right about the deal. > > Agreed. I have a company that called me this past week. Two years ago they asked me to provide my commercial automated DataExtraction and Translation services for their company. I already had a fine solution in hand, and I offered to do the work at $55/month/dealer. They were all excited, I spent some money on a contract, sent it to them, and suddenly things got real quiet. I called one of their programmers a few days after we were supposed to get client contact info, and he told me the owners had selected a different company to use for the data processing service. I called these owners to see what went wrong. "Nothing, we love your solution, but these other folks offered 'the same thing' for a lot less, about $10/month." Okay, no problem, I told them to call me if they needed my help later on. Lesson learned. From now on I secure a Letter Of Intent and insist on getting 50% of the funds needed to have a contract drawn up in case anything goes wrong. Well, the Great Day Of Reckoning came this past week. This cheaper vendor (not necessarily less expensive) just could not get the job done. They provide inconsistent file uploads, and often the translations are not correctly done. Turns out that for almost the past 2 years this other vendor has been using dial-up modem connectivity to get the source data to translate, and the source data is often corrupted. Also, for the $10/month fee they can't afford to do anything about harnessing newer technology. So my prospective client asked me if I could do the job. "Sure, and the price would remain unchanged from before. When does your contract with this other vendor end?". "The contract ends this November 1st. Okay, so you can match the $10/month then? Good, because we can't charge our customers more than we already are.", came the response. "No, that is not what I said. Let me clarify, the previous quote of $55/month will be unchanged. There is no way I could provide the level of service you need for even $40/month. But rather than bump my previous price because you are in a pinch, I am keeping it at the same level although my own operational costs have gone up a bit." Well, they griped and bitched a bit. So I said, "Here is the deal. I gave you a fair price the other year. You slithered off somewhere else after I paid an attorney to draft a contract. You were supposed to get me the client contact info so I could put all this in motion, but I only heard you changed your minds when I called your lead programmer for the client info. This cheaper vendor is not getting the job done, and you are losing customers. I can get the job done right, and you know it from our past dealings together. But it makes no sense for me to provide this service at a money losing cost to myself just to help bail you out of your mistakes. If you want my services you will either need to bump your customer pricing, or kick in the difference in the fees paid to me out of your profits. I am not able to subsidize your costs. And I can't do it because we are friends, because as a friend of mine I know you would not want to hurt me any more than I would want to hurt you. Had you opted to follow through with me the other year you could have priced your services with my higher cost and you would be in good shape now. Your decision to not discuss the lower price from the cheap vendor is what really got you in trouble. None of this is my doing or my responsibility. But I can still help, but not if I am going to lose money on the deal." So that is where we left it. I like these guys, a lot, as we have done business in the past together. But, I do not like them enough to take a hit on my chin to their benefit and get nothing in return. They went cheap, and deserve everything they get if they try going cheap again. Failure to properly plan on their part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Step up or step out. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MB Software > Solutions,LLC > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:06 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > Stephen, > > > >> Run Kristyne, run very fast and far away. > > > > I have a problem with feeling like I'm being "mean" to > people... You'd think > > that by now I'd have gotten over that, but so far not so much. > > > Business is business, and personal is personal. It's not rude when you > kindly reject his offer to use your services because you don't feel > right about th
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> Sounds like you should move. > > If you only knew what their piece of land is like you would not have said that. She and her husband told me a few years ago, over a nice dinner in SoCal, about their view, and where they were located. It sounds awesome. And solar power is a nice way to go. I would like to start using solar power at our place, even though I could not use it to completely offset all the electrical consumption for all my computers. At least I could reduce the net use. Alas, it is not yet cost effective enough, and I have other things to handle before I try going down that road. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MB Software > Solutions,LLC > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:05 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > FWIW, I did go back to my prospective client and tell him the > same thing I > > started out with... Which is to recommend that he purchase a Henzenwerke > > book, read the chapters that are applicable, and work with me via > > telecommute if he would like to continue. > > > > You guys already know that I work from a 30' solar powered > trailer that is > > half office, half sleeping space. I don't have room for client meetings > > here, and the house doesn't have electricity or an internet connection. > > > > I guess the whole thing boils down to concentrating on my > current main line > > of business. I really don't want to work with small clients > where I have to > > spend half a day traveling for a meeting that produces only 2-4 hours of > > paid work. > > > > That's just not a productive use of my time or their money. > > > Sounds like you should move. > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Stephen, > >> Run Kristyne, run very fast and far away. > > I have a problem with feeling like I'm being "mean" to people... You'd think > that by now I'd have gotten over that, but so far not so much. Business is business, and personal is personal. It's not rude when you kindly reject his offer to use your services because you don't feel right about the deal. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > FWIW, I did go back to my prospective client and tell him the same thing I > started out with... Which is to recommend that he purchase a Henzenwerke > book, read the chapters that are applicable, and work with me via > telecommute if he would like to continue. > > You guys already know that I work from a 30' solar powered trailer that is > half office, half sleeping space. I don't have room for client meetings > here, and the house doesn't have electricity or an internet connection. > > I guess the whole thing boils down to concentrating on my current main line > of business. I really don't want to work with small clients where I have to > spend half a day traveling for a meeting that produces only 2-4 hours of > paid work. > > That's just not a productive use of my time or their money. Sounds like you should move. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
To avoid jury duty I just put on shoe polish and an afro wig. Works every time. "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of Democrats." - Sarah Palin, Sept 4, 2008 Right Wing Mike http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 2:40 PM > Stephen, > > > Run Kristyne, run very fast and far away. > > I have a problem with feeling like I'm being > "mean" to people... You'd think > that by now I'd have gotten over that, but so far not > so much. > > I did cancel today's appointment, and none too soon. > Steve has been on the > jury list all week, and got called in today. We had hoped > he would escape > jury duty. > > I'm guessing he must be in court answering questions or > something because he > hasn't called yet and it is almost noon. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Stephen, > Run Kristyne, run very fast and far away. I have a problem with feeling like I'm being "mean" to people... You'd think that by now I'd have gotten over that, but so far not so much. I did cancel today's appointment, and none too soon. Steve has been on the jury list all week, and got called in today. We had hoped he would escape jury duty. I'm guessing he must be in court answering questions or something because he hasn't called yet and it is almost noon. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
I have a client who still runs a multi-user Foxpro for Windows 2.6 system. He insisted on buying all new computers for his office. I tried to tell him that he isn't going to see a performance increase because all his system does is work on one record at a time. He only uses those systems for the foxpro program, nothing else. So money he could have used for advertising or adding more bells and wistles to the program was blown on new computers and installation. Crazy. "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of Democrats." - Sarah Palin, Sept 4, 2008 Right Wing Mike http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 2:08 PM > Madigan, > > > That's true, it has kept me out of jail, but I was > talking > > about legal unethical behavior, like selling a client > new > > hardware or software they don't need, that kind of > stuff. > > Whether a client needs new hardware or software is a very > subjective thing. > Nobody NEEDS a new car, for example. Sometimes we just want > one. Selling > something that a client wants but may not truly need is not > unethical unless > there is undue pressure or misrepresentation involved. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Run Kristyne, run very fast and far away. v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager 6th MDG Information System Security Officer Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... Everybody, I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP support in person at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet with me. I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours away, each way, I wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the commute time, and mileage. He's been arguing with me about how much my travel costs are, and wants to pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get there instead of paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent this was going to be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other plans for the time slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather than the amount I requested. Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding his deposit. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Madigan, > That's true, it has kept me out of jail, but I was talking > about legal unethical behavior, like selling a client new > hardware or software they don't need, that kind of stuff. Whether a client needs new hardware or software is a very subjective thing. Nobody NEEDS a new car, for example. Sometimes we just want one. Selling something that a client wants but may not truly need is not unethical unless there is undue pressure or misrepresentation involved. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
FWIW, I did go back to my prospective client and tell him the same thing I started out with... Which is to recommend that he purchase a Henzenwerke book, read the chapters that are applicable, and work with me via telecommute if he would like to continue. You guys already know that I work from a 30' solar powered trailer that is half office, half sleeping space. I don't have room for client meetings here, and the house doesn't have electricity or an internet connection. I guess the whole thing boils down to concentrating on my current main line of business. I really don't want to work with small clients where I have to spend half a day traveling for a meeting that produces only 2-4 hours of paid work. That's just not a productive use of my time or their money. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
That's true, it has kept me out of jail, but I was talking about legal unethical behavior, like selling a client new hardware or software they don't need, that kind of stuff. --- On Fri, 9/26/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: profox@leafe.com > Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 8:57 AM > >> We all make choices in our lives. I'm sure > ethical behavior has cost me a ton > >>of money over the years, but that's my own > choice. > > >The high road is always the better road...especially in > the end. > > But it has also kept you out of jail, avoided lawsuits and > maintained your reputation. OJ is about the only person who > looks good in an orange jump suit. > > -- > Larry Miller > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > message/rfc822 > --- > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
>> We all make choices in our lives. I'm sure ethical behavior has cost me a >> ton >>of money over the years, but that's my own choice. >The high road is always the better road...especially in the end. But it has also kept you out of jail, avoided lawsuits and maintained your reputation. OJ is about the only person who looks good in an orange jump suit. -- Larry Miller --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael Madigan wrote: > It's unethical because these girls have mostly been sexually or emotionally > abused. I would be OK doing a bikini, lingerie, or classic nudes websire, > but girls sitting on traffic cones makes me queasy. > > Another friend of mine worked for a porno site that featured live girls on > camera. He said the girls would come in with black eyes, would be high as a > kite, would be driven to work by their 40yo "boyfriends", and were as dumb as > dirt. He got so sick of the scene that he quit the business. The > receptionist was told to answer the phone "Office" so that the girls could > get a message from their mom or dad without revealing the nature of their > work. This was pre-cheap-cellphone days. > Sad. Very sad. > We all make choices in our lives. I'm sure ethical behavior has cost me a > ton of money over the years, but that's my own choice. The high road is always the better road...especially in the end. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
The performance would be lackluster. LOL --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... To: "ProFox Email List" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 8:34 PM Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Good regulatory oversight of the industry would go a long way towards > helping people behave better and still make a profit. > > Govt. regulated porn? These people can't even balance a budget. I'd hate to see what porn looked like once it got past committee. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Good regulatory oversight of the industry would go a long way towards > helping people behave better and still make a profit. > > Govt. regulated porn? These people can't even balance a budget. I'd hate to see what porn looked like once it got past committee. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
MB Software Solutions General Account wrote: > Michael Madigan wrote: > >> I'm telling you Vince, If I had pro-Obama stuff or pornography, I would >> > be making money hand-over-fist. It sucks to be ethical. > >> I know this guy who is making $86,000 a month with his on-line porno >> > business. That's net, not gross. That's more a month than I make a > year. > > > Is porn unethical if the models are all of legal age and consent? > It's unethical if you feel it's wrong, but you do it anyway, just to make money. So for Mike, it's unethical. For someone who feels there is nothing really wrong with porn, it would be ethical. I sometimes read these wacky new age mags (they're cheaper then comics), and kick myself, because I KNOW I could make a fortune writing Astrology, or Name of Your Angel Guide software. But for me, it would be unethical. I have a cousin who really believes that stuff is true, and they quite ethically make a living selling that kind of stuff on their website. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
So, we come down to some fundamental issues here. We could go on for a year about basic porn v filth and pot is safer than alcohol, etc,etc According to WHO My rule of thumb is "am I comfortable with this" This applies to WHO I work for, WHAT am I asked to do, and WHERE do I do it. The financial benefit is secondary to all. Unlike some others here, I prefer to go without the bread and starve if necessary. I turned down a very lucrative project for a snooker hall It wasn't the "who" or the what", it was the fact that everytime I went there I felt depressed. Virtually everyone in the hall was on a social security benefit, smoking and drinking. It is not for me to make judgement on their lifestyle. But, for as long as I have the choice, I will choose MY environment where and for whom I work. Sytze On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Madigan, > > > Certain drugs could be legalized, but certain drugs are just > > too damaging. Crack cocaine and Crystal Meth are two examples. > > If pot and coke were legal they'd be cheaper and less harmful. Crack and > crystal would not have the same market if a safer, cheaper alternative was > available. > > I'm all for using safer stuff. Pot is safer than alcohol, for example... > > But that's an OT discussion that I don't care to start on this thread. > > When it comes to clients, I want to work with ethical people doing a legal > business that does not offend my own sensibilities. There are programmers > that would rather work for a porn maker than a telemarketer, for example... > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Madigan, > Certain drugs could be legalized, but certain drugs are just > too damaging. Crack cocaine and Crystal Meth are two examples. If pot and coke were legal they'd be cheaper and less harmful. Crack and crystal would not have the same market if a safer, cheaper alternative was available. I'm all for using safer stuff. Pot is safer than alcohol, for example... But that's an OT discussion that I don't care to start on this thread. When it comes to clients, I want to work with ethical people doing a legal business that does not offend my own sensibilities. There are programmers that would rather work for a porn maker than a telemarketer, for example... Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Certain drugs could be legalized, but certain drugs are just too damaging. Crack cocaine and Crystal Meth are two examples. "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of Democrats." - Sarah Palin, Sept 4, 2008 Right Wing Mike http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:06 PM > Madigan, > > > It's unethical because these girls have mostly > been sexually > > or emotionally abused. I would be OK doing a bikini, > > lingerie, or classic nudes websire, but girls sitting > on > > traffic cones makes me queasy. > > I'm sure that when a woman thinks that's what she > needs to make a buck she's > got a reason. However, I don't think the job > description itself is the > problem. I think the real problem is how the girls behave, > how their bosses > treat them, whether they're doing basic porn or if it > is abusive filth. > > Good regulatory oversight of the industry would go a long > way towards > helping people behave better and still make a profit. > > But then again, I'm one of those folks that things > recreational drugs > should be regulated, taxed, and legal. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Madigan, > It's unethical because these girls have mostly been sexually > or emotionally abused. I would be OK doing a bikini, > lingerie, or classic nudes websire, but girls sitting on > traffic cones makes me queasy. I'm sure that when a woman thinks that's what she needs to make a buck she's got a reason. However, I don't think the job description itself is the problem. I think the real problem is how the girls behave, how their bosses treat them, whether they're doing basic porn or if it is abusive filth. Good regulatory oversight of the industry would go a long way towards helping people behave better and still make a profit. But then again, I'm one of those folks that things recreational drugs should be regulated, taxed, and legal. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
It's not the sex that is unethical, it's the taking advantage of damaged people. I would feel the same paying a retarded person a dollar an hour just because I could. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 5:59 PM > Michael, > > > Is porn unethical if the models are all of legal age > and consent? > > A lot of people consider it immoral, but I think > there's a lot of question > about whether it is unethical or not. I don't > personally feel it is > unethical as long as it is operated within the law and with > clear consent > and standard good business behavior. > > I don't care at all for defining "ethics" > with a "morality" standard. Some > people think I'm immoral if I leave home with no head > covering or no bra > under my shirt. But there is no ethical issue for that > case. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Perhaps others like yourself here like TRoche would advise > you on what works best for them. Plenty of ISVs here to > lend such advice. For me, I keep the standard rate > more/less, and offer PERHAPS a discount on larger > projectsbidding by the project instead of by the hour. That's more or less what I was thinking about. Starting with the highest rate for half days down through a discounted contract rate for longer contracts. The longest contracts also need a "notice" or "buyout" for early cancellation, too, because it takes time to ramp back up after a long commitment. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Is porn unethical if the models are all of legal age and consent? A lot of people consider it immoral, but I think there's a lot of question about whether it is unethical or not. I don't personally feel it is unethical as long as it is operated within the law and with clear consent and standard good business behavior. I don't care at all for defining "ethics" with a "morality" standard. Some people think I'm immoral if I leave home with no head covering or no bra under my shirt. But there is no ethical issue for that case. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
It's unethical because these girls have mostly been sexually or emotionally abused. I would be OK doing a bikini, lingerie, or classic nudes websire, but girls sitting on traffic cones makes me queasy. Another friend of mine worked for a porno site that featured live girls on camera. He said the girls would come in with black eyes, would be high as a kite, would be driven to work by their 40yo "boyfriends", and were as dumb as dirt. He got so sick of the scene that he quit the business. The receptionist was told to answer the phone "Office" so that the girls could get a message from their mom or dad without revealing the nature of their work. This was pre-cheap-cellphone days. We all make choices in our lives. I'm sure ethical behavior has cost me a ton of money over the years, but that's my own choice. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, MB Software Solutions General Account <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: MB Software Solutions General Account <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 5:52 PM > Michael Madigan wrote: > > I'm telling you Vince, If I had pro-Obama stuff or > pornography, I would > be making money hand-over-fist. It sucks to be ethical. > > > > I know this guy who is making $86,000 a month with his > on-line porno > business. That's net, not gross. That's more a > month than I make a > year. > > > Is porn unethical if the models are all of legal age and > consent? > > > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > My last position was that I would require 20 hours of fees as an initial > deposit. That doesn't work at all for the 4 hour jobs, though. If I'm going > to take any more of those at all I need to think up a reasonable policy so I > don't sweat it. > > These types of requests are rare enough that I have not worked up a standard > policy I feel good about. Hi Kristyne! You could say you only do work on a minimum contract commitment of 20 hours. That is five 4 hr jobs, they would need that in, say, a year. It *should* work. By the time you have done the 20 hours they will *love* you. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Madigan, > >> If it's less than 6 years ago, you can still put him into collections. > > That one was actually more than 6 years ago. I've managed to not repeat that > mistake in quite some time. > > Honestly, I just don't like to do short-term support. I don't seem to be > able to handle it well. By the time you figure out what they are asking for > the problem is solved in 5 minutes and they only want to pay for the 5 > minutes. I like larger contracts rather than a bunch of small ones. Things > like 2 hours of work with a 4 hour commute burn most of an entire day for > not much money. > > Perhaps I could handle it better by jacking up the short term rate because > it is always such a huge hassle compared to longer contracts. > > My last position was that I would require 20 hours of fees as an initial > deposit. That doesn't work at all for the 4 hour jobs, though. If I'm going > to take any more of those at all I need to think up a reasonable policy so I > don't sweat it. > > These types of requests are rare enough that I have not worked up a standard > policy I feel good about. Perhaps others like yourself here like TRoche would advise you on what works best for them. Plenty of ISVs here to lend such advice. For me, I keep the standard rate more/less, and offer PERHAPS a discount on larger projectsbidding by the project instead of by the hour. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael Madigan wrote: > I'm telling you Vince, If I had pro-Obama stuff or pornography, I would be making money hand-over-fist. It sucks to be ethical. > > I know this guy who is making $86,000 a month with his on-line porno business. That's net, not gross. That's more a month than I make a year. Is porn unethical if the models are all of legal age and consent? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Madigan, > If it's less than 6 years ago, you can still put him into collections. That one was actually more than 6 years ago. I've managed to not repeat that mistake in quite some time. Honestly, I just don't like to do short-term support. I don't seem to be able to handle it well. By the time you figure out what they are asking for the problem is solved in 5 minutes and they only want to pay for the 5 minutes. I like larger contracts rather than a bunch of small ones. Things like 2 hours of work with a 4 hour commute burn most of an entire day for not much money. Perhaps I could handle it better by jacking up the short term rate because it is always such a huge hassle compared to longer contracts. My last position was that I would require 20 hours of fees as an initial deposit. That doesn't work at all for the 4 hour jobs, though. If I'm going to take any more of those at all I need to think up a reasonable policy so I don't sweat it. These types of requests are rare enough that I have not worked up a standard policy I feel good about. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
If it's less than 6 years ago, you can still put him into collections. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 4:22 PM > Michael, > > > Did he give a reason for stopping the check? > > He said that he tried to page me the next day and I > didn't call him back. I > didn't use a pager at that time. > > Regardless, I couldn't see what that had to do with the > 6 hours of time I > spent in his office. > > I know I should have taken him to small claims court but I > didn't feel like > going through that hassle and I wrote it off instead. These > days I would > have turned it over to collections, now that one of my > associations has > collectors available. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
I'm telling you Vince, If I had pro-Obama stuff or pornography, I would be making money hand-over-fist. It sucks to be ethical. I know this guy who is making $86,000 a month with his on-line porno business. That's net, not gross. That's more a month than I make a year. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Vince Teachout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "ProFox Email List" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 4:19 PM > Michael Madigan wrote: > > I'd love to see your sites and see what you've > done. > > > > > > Well, her most popular one is "Left Wing > Michelle". :-) > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> Well, her most popular one is "Left Wing Michelle". :-) Hahaha Actually, my most popular site is still the Siberian Husky site. I make very little on that site in ad revenue, so getting paid links would be nice. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael, > Did he give a reason for stopping the check? He said that he tried to page me the next day and I didn't call him back. I didn't use a pager at that time. Regardless, I couldn't see what that had to do with the 6 hours of time I spent in his office. I know I should have taken him to small claims court but I didn't feel like going through that hassle and I wrote it off instead. These days I would have turned it over to collections, now that one of my associations has collectors available. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Michael Madigan wrote: > I'd love to see your sites and see what you've done. > > Well, her most popular one is "Left Wing Michelle". :-) ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> The ad > revenue is > my new revenue source. Cool! I am glad to hear it is working out for you, even if not yet as much as you may want. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:36 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Madigan, > > > 1. I agree he sounds like a jerk > > I don't know that he's a jerk. He could just think this is a negotiation. > I'm guessing he's every bit as frustrated as I am that I am not budging on > the price. > > > 2. I see no reason why you can't do this over the internet. > > I originally tried to just look at his code and help him that > way. He's not > so hot at sending files over. He sent me a VFP form without the > classes, and > when I asked to see the classes he insisted that I was going to > need to come > in person instead. > > > 3. I would send him back the paypal payment. > > Already done. > > Your point in the other message was about taking something > because you were > broke. With all the crap going on concerning the house and the > lawsuit with > the general contractor, I'm pretty broke too. But I can make more > money NOT > seeing someone under these circumstances than I can going there, so > traveling to a site for so little work makes no sense at all. > > I have been developing roughly 15 web sites per month now. The ad > revenue is > my new revenue source. I still write a lot of Fox code, but > almost all of it > is to support my own web sites these days. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
I'd love to see your sites and see what you've done. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 3:52 PM > Gil, > > > it could happen again, to any of us. And it would not > be > > beneath me to stoop low to generate revenue in an > > environment I would otherwise not have considered > > wrking within if it meant the difference between bread > on > > the table and not. > > Exactly. I have been working very hard on my web sites, and > thought I was > making good progress. Then I realized how much time I was > burning by not > having better tools and started writing the tools I could > not buy. > > Right now I'm working pretty cheap while I put in the > time to get my > internet marketing business going strong. > > Lately, I've started getting requests from folks that > want paid placements > on some of my more popular sites. That's a new thing > for me, and I consider > it a good indicator. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
"No good deed goes unpunished" Clare Boothe Luce --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 3:29 PM > Sytze, > > > You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you > have to > > stoop so low. > > Point taken. I think these sorts of deals tug on my > heartstrings so I try to > give them a break, and then I wind up irritated when the > guy on the other > side thinks he's getting gouged no matter what I do > with my fees. > > I tend to get talked into things too easily. > > Another little story from a long time ago -- I once did > about 40 hours of > pro bono work setting up a nonprofit with a FPD package to > do their > mailings. A year later I got a call from a newly hired > administrator wanting > me to go back to their site and help them convert the > system over to Access. > When I wasn't able to dash right over she actually > chewed me out for not > supporting my system. > > It seems like the smaller the client the more grief they > are. But I hate > even thinking that. I've been a small client that has > hired help for only a > few hours at a time for network support, wiring, stuff that > I wasn't that > good at. I don't recall being a pain in the butt > towards them. I paid their > office visit fee and hourly rates without complaining about > it. Even the guy > that fixes the dryer gets a fee just for showing up. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > FWIW, the last time I drove out to a little client like this one, I spent 6 > hours on site working with three people looking over my shoulder being > "trained". At the end, the guy wrote me a business check. Then he stopped > payment on the check. > > I need that kind of client like I need another hole in my head. Did he give a reason for stopping the check? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> Point taken. I think these sorts of deals tug on my heartstrings > so I try to > give them a break, and then I wind up irritated when the guy on the other > side thinks he's getting gouged no matter what I do with my fees. > Remember this, my dear friend... No Good Deed Ever Goes Unpunished... Except for with me (so far) I gladly do pro bono work for a medical center that can clearly afford to pay me. Why? I like what the owning physician does with his community outreach work for elderly patients. Is it self serving of him to do what he does? Perhaps, it does bring in business. But he still does not have to do it. I see my pro bono work as my way of paying into society through his services. And they never abuse me. I did the same thing for a dentist in downtown Baltimore who provided his services for the poor, allowing folks to make no interest payments over extended periods of time. I liked what he was doing for his community. When I was out there I overheard one mother tell the receptionist that she could only afford money for food, but she could pay double next week. "No, there is no double payment here. Pay as you can, we trust you will do the best you can." That damn near drove me to tears. The dentist insisted on paying me when I was done - he knew nothing of me, I was referred to him by a patient of his. I told him what I had overheard, and admired him for what he was trying to do, and asked him to take what he felt the value was for my work and apply it to help a family in need of his services. He was a 45ish old man, and his eyes welled up with tears. He later called me to tell me who he provided service for. By coincidence it was the son of a gal who used to work for a company I used to be a Marketing Director for, and she had been laid off I felt real good about that decision to work on a pro bono basis. I also do pro bono work for the church where Lynda and I got married. I was there this morning. In their case I cover labor, parts and license fees for them - and their DSL service (all tax deductible, but still not free to us). I get nothing but expressions of appreciation when I do these kind deeds. I could not imagine what I would do if any person from either group were to turn on me. The few other pro bono jobs I have done for families with students in school, and without the money to pay for AntiVirus subscriptions, or MS Office, are another story. I used to handle all the costs and let it go as trying to Pay It Forward. Now, however, these folks get Linux and OpenOffice from me . And no labor charge. Just another way of paying back into society. For me it has been a good experience when I do help where I can, and where it makes sense. I guess if anyone who received work from me for free were to gripe, back-bite or complain (not report addition or persistent issues, there is a difference) I would have a hard time wanting to do anything more for them. Luckily I have never had that happen. That said, I have learned by watching others that not everybody is appreciative of a little help when it is needed. So I am very careful re: who I do pro bono work for. I have my favorites, and for the most part limit it to a few places now. I am okay with where I am in that respect. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:29 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Sytze, > > > You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you have to > > stoop so low. > > Point taken. I think these sorts of deals tug on my heartstrings > so I try to > give them a break, and then I wind up irritated when the guy on the other > side thinks he's getting gouged no matter what I do with my fees. > > I tend to get talked into things too easily. > > Another little story from a long time ago -- I once did about 40 hours of > pro bono work setting up a nonprofit with a FPD package to do their > mailings. A year later I got a call from a newly hired > administrator wanting > me to go back to their site and help them convert the system over > to Access. > When I wasn't able to dash right over she actually chewed me out for not > supporting my system. > > It seems like the smaller the client the more grief they are. But I hate > even thinking that. I've been a small client that has hired help > for only a > few hours at a time for network support, wiring, stuff that I wasn't that > good at. I don't recall being a pain in the butt towards them. I > paid their > office visit fee and hourly rates without complaining about it. > Even the guy > that fixes the dryer gets a fee just for showing up. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdan
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Gil, > it could happen again, to any of us. And it would not be > beneath me to stoop low to generate revenue in an > environment I would otherwise not have considered > wrking within if it meant the difference between bread on > the table and not. Exactly. I have been working very hard on my web sites, and thought I was making good progress. Then I realized how much time I was burning by not having better tools and started writing the tools I could not buy. Right now I'm working pretty cheap while I put in the time to get my internet marketing business going strong. Lately, I've started getting requests from folks that want paid placements on some of my more popular sites. That's a new thing for me, and I consider it a good indicator. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Madigan, > 1. I agree he sounds like a jerk I don't know that he's a jerk. He could just think this is a negotiation. I'm guessing he's every bit as frustrated as I am that I am not budging on the price. > 2. I see no reason why you can't do this over the internet. I originally tried to just look at his code and help him that way. He's not so hot at sending files over. He sent me a VFP form without the classes, and when I asked to see the classes he insisted that I was going to need to come in person instead. > 3. I would send him back the paypal payment. Already done. Your point in the other message was about taking something because you were broke. With all the crap going on concerning the house and the lawsuit with the general contractor, I'm pretty broke too. But I can make more money NOT seeing someone under these circumstances than I can going there, so traveling to a site for so little work makes no sense at all. I have been developing roughly 15 web sites per month now. The ad revenue is my new revenue source. I still write a lot of Fox code, but almost all of it is to support my own web sites these days. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you have to stoop so low. > I understand and totally agree with the first statement. Krystine is indeed an esteemed member of the Fox community. But I do not understand the 2nd statement/question/comment, and I would like to think I misunderstood its meaning. I see nothing she Krystine did that causes me to think she stooped low on any count. As I see things she merely ran into a situation, had a gut instinct, and called on her fellow FoxHeads to help provide their thoughts. Even if she were to go ahead and work for this person I would not throw a rock at her. I remember all too well when I would take any kind of work at all just to get my foot into the game in the early days, and a few times after that when things got so tight I was happy to have anything - even if it meant I was working for a net $5.00/hour after all the, "Oh, by the way, since you are already here..." issues. It was more money than I had before, and prospects in my early days were few and far between. That said, it could happen again, to any of us. And it would not be beneath me to stoop low to generate revenue in an environment I would otherwise not have considered wrking within if it meant the difference between bread on the table and not. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sytze de Boer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:15 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > A very good friend of mine asked me if I wanted to quote for the supply of > IT equipment. > The quote was in excess of $100,000 > He then showed me the quotes from other companies with comment like 'I > really want you to have the business'. > I revised my quote because I really wanted the business. > He came back and showed me their revised quotes, because "I > really want you > to have the business." > I told him I wanted to withdraw both quotes. > He queried why > I told him it was because he did not understand why I wanted to withdraw > both quotes. > > Krystine > You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you have to stoop so low. > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Gil Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. > > > > I respectfully beg to differ. I do not feel the money has > anything to do > > with the situation any longer. It is his attitude. I hate to suggest > > anyone turn work away, but it seems to me there is no respect > or trust on > > both sides of this fence. Sure, trust must be earned, but to > dictate what > > will be paid, when and how? Take it or leave it? Perhaps I am reading > > more > > into the situation than I should with the info at hand. But my > gut tells > > me > > it is best to simply state "I do not feel I can meet your > needs.", and let > > it go at that. For that matter, even at double the regular > billing rate I > > would consider letting him go elsewhere. > > > > > > Gil > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pete Theisen > > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:40 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > > > > > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold > > > there's a PayPal > > > > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to > > > pay rather > > > > than the amount I requested. > > > > > > > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this > > > guy. I just > > > > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of > > > course refunding > > > > his deposit. > > > > > > Hi Kristyne! > > > > > > You could try telling him that you have learned from long experience > > > that you have to charge what you charge. Since he is > obviously unwilling > > > to let you make your costs and simple wages you think it best that he > > > find someone who has lesser costs and wages than you have. > > > > > > You could just send a note to this effect if you think you > might pop off > > > at him on the phone. If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Gil Hale wrote: >> If he relents and pays your rate, however, you >> would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. > > I respectfully beg to differ. I do not feel the money has anything to do > with the situation any longer. It is his attitude. I hate to suggest > anyone turn work away, but it seems to me there is no respect or trust on > both sides of this fence. Sure, trust must be earned, but to dictate what > will be paid, when and how? Take it or leave it? Perhaps I am reading more > into the situation than I should with the info at hand. But my gut tells me > it is best to simply state "I do not feel I can meet your needs.", and let > it go at that. For that matter, even at double the regular billing rate I > would consider letting him go elsewhere. Hi Gil! You are right if she can afford to blow off someone who ultimately agrees to pay her rate, which he might. However, they had gotten to the point of discussing money and she has been complaining about not having enough money so, perhaps, if he pays her rate . . . -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Sytze, > You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you have to > stoop so low. Point taken. I think these sorts of deals tug on my heartstrings so I try to give them a break, and then I wind up irritated when the guy on the other side thinks he's getting gouged no matter what I do with my fees. I tend to get talked into things too easily. Another little story from a long time ago -- I once did about 40 hours of pro bono work setting up a nonprofit with a FPD package to do their mailings. A year later I got a call from a newly hired administrator wanting me to go back to their site and help them convert the system over to Access. When I wasn't able to dash right over she actually chewed me out for not supporting my system. It seems like the smaller the client the more grief they are. But I hate even thinking that. I've been a small client that has hired help for only a few hours at a time for network support, wiring, stuff that I wasn't that good at. I don't recall being a pain in the butt towards them. I paid their office visit fee and hourly rates without complaining about it. Even the guy that fixes the dryer gets a fee just for showing up. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
I agree with Gil. I took the last work because I was broke and it was the worst gig I ever had. --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Gil Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Gil Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: profox@leafe.com > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 2:54 PM > > If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your > reason. > > I respectfully beg to differ. I do not feel the money has > anything to do > with the situation any longer. It is his attitude. I hate > to suggest > anyone turn work away, but it seems to me there is no > respect or trust on > both sides of this fence. Sure, trust must be earned, but > to dictate what > will be paid, when and how? Take it or leave it? Perhaps > I am reading more > into the situation than I should with the info at hand. > But my gut tells me > it is best to simply state "I do not feel I can meet > your needs.", and let > it go at that. For that matter, even at double the regular > billing rate I > would consider letting him go elsewhere. > > > Gil > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pete > Theisen > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:40 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > > > > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo > and behold > > there's a PayPal > > > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount > he wanted to > > pay rather > > > than the amount I requested. > > > > > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to > work for this > > guy. I just > > > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal > with him. I'm of > > course refunding > > > his deposit. > > > > Hi Kristyne! > > > > You could try telling him that you have learned from > long experience > > that you have to charge what you charge. Since he is > obviously unwilling > > to let you make your costs and simple wages you think > it best that he > > find someone who has lesser costs and wages than you > have. > > > > You could just send a note to this effect if you think > you might pop off > > at him on the phone. If he relents and pays your rate, > however, you > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your > reason. > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > http://pete-theisen.com/ > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
1. I agree he sounds like a jerk 2. I see no reason why you can't do this over the internet. 3. I would send him back the paypal payment. "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of Democrats." - Sarah Palin, Sept 4, 2008 Right Wing Mike http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > To: "'ProFox Email List'" > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 2:12 PM > Everybody, > > I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP > support in person > at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet > with me. > > I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours > away, each way, I > wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the > commute time, > and mileage. > > He's been arguing with me about how much my travel > costs are, and wants to > pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get > there instead of > paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent > this was going to > be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other > plans for the time > slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold > there's a PayPal > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted > to pay rather > than the amount I requested. > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for > this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. > I'm of course refunding > his deposit. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't > you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
A very good friend of mine asked me if I wanted to quote for the supply of IT equipment. The quote was in excess of $100,000 He then showed me the quotes from other companies with comment like 'I really want you to have the business'. I revised my quote because I really wanted the business. He came back and showed me their revised quotes, because "I really want you to have the business." I told him I wanted to withdraw both quotes. He queried why I told him it was because he did not understand why I wanted to withdraw both quotes. Krystine You are a highly respected Foxer. Since when do you have to stoop so low. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Gil Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. > > I respectfully beg to differ. I do not feel the money has anything to do > with the situation any longer. It is his attitude. I hate to suggest > anyone turn work away, but it seems to me there is no respect or trust on > both sides of this fence. Sure, trust must be earned, but to dictate what > will be paid, when and how? Take it or leave it? Perhaps I am reading > more > into the situation than I should with the info at hand. But my gut tells > me > it is best to simply state "I do not feel I can meet your needs.", and let > it go at that. For that matter, even at double the regular billing rate I > would consider letting him go elsewhere. > > > Gil > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pete Theisen > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:40 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > > > > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold > > there's a PayPal > > > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to > > pay rather > > > than the amount I requested. > > > > > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this > > guy. I just > > > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of > > course refunding > > > his deposit. > > > > Hi Kristyne! > > > > You could try telling him that you have learned from long experience > > that you have to charge what you charge. Since he is obviously unwilling > > to let you make your costs and simple wages you think it best that he > > find someone who has lesser costs and wages than you have. > > > > You could just send a note to this effect if you think you might pop off > > at him on the phone. If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > http://pete-theisen.com/ > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Good girl, good move. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:11 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Guys, > > Thanks very much for telling me what I thought you would tell me. I had > already given him a break on the fees and terms because he has a > small shop > and I don't have a full work load. I told him to pay 1/2 my > hourly rate plus > miles for the commute, and he didn't like the fact that the travel costs > were more than the costs for 2 hours of actual work... > > Well, the expense of travel is the entire point. That's why I don't do a 4 > hour commute for 2-4 hours worth of work. D'OH. Telecommuting is the only > thing that makes any sense. > > My reason for refusing his work isn't the money. It is the grief of having > to argue about the fees for a teeny bit of work. Who knows what > else we'd be > arguing about once I actually got there? Life is too short. > > FWIW, the last time I drove out to a little client like this one, > I spent 6 > hours on site working with three people looking over my shoulder being > "trained". At the end, the guy wrote me a business check. Then he stopped > payment on the check. > > I need that kind of client like I need another hole in my head. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Guys, Thanks very much for telling me what I thought you would tell me. I had already given him a break on the fees and terms because he has a small shop and I don't have a full work load. I told him to pay 1/2 my hourly rate plus miles for the commute, and he didn't like the fact that the travel costs were more than the costs for 2 hours of actual work... Well, the expense of travel is the entire point. That's why I don't do a 4 hour commute for 2-4 hours worth of work. D'OH. Telecommuting is the only thing that makes any sense. My reason for refusing his work isn't the money. It is the grief of having to argue about the fees for a teeny bit of work. Who knows what else we'd be arguing about once I actually got there? Life is too short. FWIW, the last time I drove out to a little client like this one, I spent 6 hours on site working with three people looking over my shoulder being "trained". At the end, the guy wrote me a business check. Then he stopped payment on the check. I need that kind of client like I need another hole in my head. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding > his deposit. It is wise. It does smell. Paul ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding > his deposit. Ok, it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. But you already know that. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
> If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. I respectfully beg to differ. I do not feel the money has anything to do with the situation any longer. It is his attitude. I hate to suggest anyone turn work away, but it seems to me there is no respect or trust on both sides of this fence. Sure, trust must be earned, but to dictate what will be paid, when and how? Take it or leave it? Perhaps I am reading more into the situation than I should with the info at hand. But my gut tells me it is best to simply state "I do not feel I can meet your needs.", and let it go at that. For that matter, even at double the regular billing rate I would consider letting him go elsewhere. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pete Theisen > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > > > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold > there's a PayPal > > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to > pay rather > > than the amount I requested. > > > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this > guy. I just > > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of > course refunding > > his deposit. > > Hi Kristyne! > > You could try telling him that you have learned from long experience > that you have to charge what you charge. Since he is obviously unwilling > to let you make your costs and simple wages you think it best that he > find someone who has lesser costs and wages than you have. > > You could just send a note to this effect if you think you might pop off > at him on the phone. If he relents and pays your rate, however, you > would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://pete-theisen.com/ > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather > than the amount I requested. > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding > his deposit. Hi Kristyne! You could try telling him that you have learned from long experience that you have to charge what you charge. Since he is obviously unwilling to let you make your costs and simple wages you think it best that he find someone who has lesser costs and wages than you have. You could just send a note to this effect if you think you might pop off at him on the phone. If he relents and pays your rate, however, you would have to take the job if you use rate as your reason. -- Regards, Pete http://pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
It is one thing for a client to tell me if he/she is in a pinch, and tries to work with me. It is quite another thing for a client to tell me I am going to do things his/her way - including deciding what my compensation is going to be (for). I do not accept mandates from others very well, it runs counter to my "work with" approach in business. From what you have told me he has either been burned before, or he is expecting you to co-invest in his business with none of the benefit. For 2 - 4 hours of work he has shown his colors as being a potential PITA. I would simply advise I do not think I can meet his needs. Period. Gil > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristyne McDaniel > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:12 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms... > > > Everybody, > > I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP support in person > at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet with me. > > I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours away, each way, I > wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the commute time, > and mileage. > > He's been arguing with me about how much my travel costs are, and wants to > pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get there instead of > paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent this > was going to > be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other plans > for the time > slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather > than the amount I requested. > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this > guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course > refunding > his deposit. > > Kristyne McDaniel > http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog > http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ > http://www.mcstyles.com/ > > Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. > -- Henry Ford > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Kristyne McDaniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Everybody, > > I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP support in person > at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet with me. > > I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours away, each way, I > wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the commute time, > and mileage. > > He's been arguing with me about how much my travel costs are, and wants to > pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get there instead of > paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent this was going to > be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other plans for the time > slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather > than the amount I requested. > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding > his deposit. Send an invoice for telecommute style support for his records. -- Stephen Russell Sr. Production Systems Programmer Mimeo.com Memphis TN 901.246-0159 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Kristyne McDaniel wrote: > Everybody, > > I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP support in person > at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet with me. > > I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours away, each way, I > wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the commute time, > and mileage. > > He's been arguing with me about how much my travel costs are, and wants to > pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get there instead of > paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent this was going to > be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other plans for the time > slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. > > I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal > deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather > than the amount I requested. > > Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just > smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding > his deposit. I'd run away from this guy. He's going to be a PITA. Kindly call him and politely say that you've changed your mind and wish him a good day and that you've already refunded his deposit. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] Clients naming their own terms...
Everybody, I had a request from someone that wants 2-4 hours of VFP support in person at his office. He's unwilling to work over the internet with me. I told him that I could do that, but since he is 2 hours away, each way, I wanted a deposit from him to cover the 2 hours of time, the commute time, and mileage. He's been arguing with me about how much my travel costs are, and wants to pay me less money, wants to give me a check when I get there instead of paying in advance via PayPal, etc. When it became apparent this was going to be a lot of grief, I canceled the appointment, made other plans for the time slot, and told him to find someone else to help him. I got back from a court status meeting, and lo and behold there's a PayPal deposit in my account -- but it is for the amount he wanted to pay rather than the amount I requested. Guys, please tell me that it is wise to refuse to work for this guy. I just smell a rat and I don't want to even deal with him. I'm of course refunding his deposit. Kristyne McDaniel http://www.kristynemcdaniel.com/blog http://www.militarydraftissues.com/ http://www.mcstyles.com/ Whether you think you can, or you think you can't you are right. -- Henry Ford ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
