Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
I actually made a J C, but was never able to locate it. However, With the help I got I was able to fix the problem thanks to all who took the time to respond. M. Wahab * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
I have had a library update cause a part to go haywire when the origin of the library part was way off from the center of the part. This was due to the library being imported from another package if I remember correctly. I have had a component move off the viewable area, and found a way to fix it relatively quickly. First I output a pick and place the assembly. Next I find the part in question in the pick and place and I change it's x,y location to a good location Now I go back to the PCB and I select Tools Autoplacer Place from file and I use the changed PIK file to place the part in a good location. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
All, Do you find these components (in the negative quadrant) in the gerber or pick and place outputs? jmc Ian Wilson wrote: > > At 10:09 AM 25/10/01 +1000, you wrote: > >Ian, it's actually pretty easy to "loose parts". > >We recently have had a situation where a group of components have been > >unknowingly moved into the negative region of the database as part of a > >move selection process early in the placement stage. It turns out that the > >syncroniser matches the parts and the pins for the netstherefore no > >missing components.The netlist exists in the database but the physical > >ratsnest does not (I assume the physical ratsnest is only valid for the > >database extents). The DRC was 100% ok. It would appear that the DRC makes > >the assumption that if there is a valid net but no ratsnest then the net > >must be connected. (ie no broken net) (also no clearance errors either) > > > >I would be interested if anyone else has had this problem. > >We use SP6, W98 > > > >We only found it by noticing an associated text string on the left hand edge > >of the database area when zoomed right out. > > I too have seen the moving components (not for a long time though), for me > at least, they have always existed in the netlist and the component > report. I had not noticed what happens to the ratsnest when a component is > off in ga-ga land but it still exists in the database, the netlist, the > component report, the ASCII PCB version and even component browser. I have > not checked if they exist in an exported spreadsheet. > > Thanks for the info on the ratsnets not showing for the "gone-ape" > components (technical term), > Ian Wilson -- >>> >John M. Cardone Electro-Mechanical Dsgn. Engr. Grp. >M/S 278-100 Mechanical Engineering Section, 352 >4800 Oak Grove Dr.NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory >Pasadena, Ca 91109 >Tel: 818.354.5407 MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Fax: 818.393.4860 >>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
At 10:09 AM 25/10/01 +1000, you wrote: >Ian, it's actually pretty easy to "loose parts". >We recently have had a situation where a group of components have been >unknowingly moved into the negative region of the database as part of a >move selection process early in the placement stage. It turns out that the >syncroniser matches the parts and the pins for the netstherefore no >missing components.The netlist exists in the database but the physical >ratsnest does not (I assume the physical ratsnest is only valid for the >database extents). The DRC was 100% ok. It would appear that the DRC makes >the assumption that if there is a valid net but no ratsnest then the net >must be connected. (ie no broken net) (also no clearance errors either) > >I would be interested if anyone else has had this problem. >We use SP6, W98 > >We only found it by noticing an associated text string on the left hand edge >of the database area when zoomed right out. I too have seen the moving components (not for a long time though), for me at least, they have always existed in the netlist and the component report. I had not noticed what happens to the ratsnest when a component is off in ga-ga land but it still exists in the database, the netlist, the component report, the ASCII PCB version and even component browser. I have not checked if they exist in an exported spreadsheet. Thanks for the info on the ratsnets not showing for the "gone-ape" components (technical term), Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
Ian, it's actually pretty easy to "loose parts". We recently have had a situation where a group of components have been unknowingly moved into the negative region of the database as part of a move selection process early in the placement stage. It turns out that the syncroniser matches the parts and the pins for the netstherefore no missing components.The netlist exists in the database but the physical ratsnest does not (I assume the physical ratsnest is only valid for the database extents). The DRC was 100% ok. It would appear that the DRC makes the assumption that if there is a valid net but no ratsnest then the net must be connected. (ie no broken net) (also no clearance errors either) I would be interested if anyone else has had this problem. We use SP6, W98 We only found it by noticing an associated text string on the left hand edge of the database area when zoomed right out. -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2001 8:36 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed On 03:07 PM 24/10/2001 -0700, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said: >At 07:52 AM 10/24/01 +0200, Emanuel Zimmermann wrote: >>Maybe that the reference point for the .lib part moved for whatever reason. >>This can cause the component to be placed out of the working area after >>update >>PCB operation. > >Good thinking. > >Yes, that would do it, and it is not a terribly uncommon error. Move >Component, clicked onto an empty space, will pull up a list of components, >which will allow picking the component up. One will be able to tell >immediately what its extents are when it is being moved. Editing it from >the panel is another possibility, just change the XY coordinates by adding >or subtracting appropriate values (remember, Protel will think that the >component is at the reference position, which in this case will *not* be >where the primitives are located. This is exactly why I suggested that the netlist or component report should be checked or even just use J-C to see if the component is still around somewhere. Though I suspect that this is not happening in this case as it would be pretty hard to loose a large BGA package due to a shift - you would think you would notice it sitting around somewhere. The ratsnest would certainly show something interesting. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
On 03:07 PM 24/10/2001 -0700, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said: >At 07:52 AM 10/24/01 +0200, Emanuel Zimmermann wrote: >>Maybe that the reference point for the .lib part moved for whatever reason. >>This can cause the component to be placed out of the working area after >>update >>PCB operation. > >Good thinking. > >Yes, that would do it, and it is not a terribly uncommon error. Move >Component, clicked onto an empty space, will pull up a list of components, >which will allow picking the component up. One will be able to tell >immediately what its extents are when it is being moved. Editing it from >the panel is another possibility, just change the XY coordinates by adding >or subtracting appropriate values (remember, Protel will think that the >component is at the reference position, which in this case will *not* be >where the primitives are located. This is exactly why I suggested that the netlist or component report should be checked or even just use J-C to see if the component is still around somewhere. Though I suspect that this is not happening in this case as it would be pretty hard to loose a large BGA package due to a shift - you would think you would notice it sitting around somewhere. The ratsnest would certainly show something interesting. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
At 07:52 AM 10/24/01 +0200, Emanuel Zimmermann wrote: >Maybe that the reference point for the .lib part moved for whatever reason. >This can cause the component to be placed out of the working area after update >PCB operation. Good thinking. Yes, that would do it, and it is not a terribly uncommon error. Move Component, clicked onto an empty space, will pull up a list of components, which will allow picking the component up. One will be able to tell immediately what its extents are when it is being moved. Editing it from the panel is another possibility, just change the XY coordinates by adding or subtracting appropriate values (remember, Protel will think that the component is at the reference position, which in this case will *not* be where the primitives are located. Modifying the library part to put the reference on pin 1 or on the centroid and then running update component should also do it, probably the easiest and best solution. I'd look at the library part first and see where the reference is living [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > > (1) I don't know what happened. Maybe that the reference point for the .lib part moved for whatever reason. This can cause the component to be placed out of the working area after update PCB operation. > (3) (Good practice leaves track ends > coincident with pad centers.) Really good advise! Regards, Emanuel * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
At 02:06 PM 10/23/01 -0400, M. Wahab wrote: > I was updating from a pcb library a footprint of >a BGA component, however, the component disappeared >completely. >What went wrong? is there anyway to recover? It doesn't accept >undo, and it's very difficult to position a new BGA footprint >in place of the disappeared one. Back up is affected as well. (1) I don't know what happened. (2) You should have backups for all the files involved (your library and your PCB), and there are normally, assuming you have autoback enabled -- ask if you do not know how to do that, two different backups, one in the backup directory for autobackups, plus two (Backup of ... and Previous Backup of ...) in the directory where the ddb lives. You'll need to import the latter. Note that autoback can fail to operate if one constantly keeps the program in a state where there is a pending operation. Protel allows pending operations to be stacked, so occasionally one should back up through the stack with the Escape key. But the other backups are created whenever you overwrite a file in the .ddb, if this is an option, I haven't noticed. Some users don't like them, but they are easy to generically delete because of the really distinctive names. (3) To replace a routed component accurately, select the component, use Move Block, and pick up the component at a pad center that corresponds to a now-hanging track end. The current layer should be set to that track's layer. Snap will now place the component *exactly* as it was when the track was completed, assuming it was on grid. (Good practice leaves track ends coincident with pad centers.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
On 02:06 PM 23/10/2001 -0400, M. Wahab said: >Hi, > > I was updating from a pcb library a footprint of >a BGA component, however, the component disappeared >completely. This sounds odd. Was there anything unusual about the footprint? How did you do the update, by pressing Update PCB from within the PCBLIb editor? If you produce a netlist or a component report is the component designator still listed? Can you jump to the component designator (with J-C)? >What went wrong? is there anyway to recover? It doesn't accept >undo, and it's very difficult to position a new BGA footprint >in place of the disappeared one. Back up is affected as well. If your backups are affected then I assume you are not using the auto-save server to regularly save open files? What about the backed up DDB (*.DBK is it)? here are at least three forms of backups produced by Protel (including the auto-saved files) - have you checked all of these? Older versions of the file? Your regular back-ups? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Urgent help needed
Wahab: If you check in your Protel backup directory on your harddisk, you will likely find a backup of the library where your BGA footprint existed. Rename the backup file to a .LIB name and open in Protel to see if your old footprint is there. Daniel -Original Message- From: M. Wahab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 11:06 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Urgent help needed Hi, I was updating from a pcb library a footprint of a BGA component, however, the component disappeared completely. What went wrong? is there anyway to recover? It doesn't accept undo, and it's very difficult to position a new BGA footprint in place of the disappeared one. Back up is affected as well. Help is grately appreciated. Thanks M. Wahab * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Urgent help needed
Hi, I was updating from a pcb library a footprint of a BGA component, however, the component disappeared completely. What went wrong? is there anyway to recover? It doesn't accept undo, and it's very difficult to position a new BGA footprint in place of the disappeared one. Back up is affected as well. Help is grately appreciated. Thanks M. Wahab * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
