[RBW] FS: Paul Minimoto Brakes $225

[Ben Adrian]

Paul Minimoto Silver Set. Non-polished. Two brakes. One bike's worth.

These stop so well, but the setup and cable pull is just a little fiddly 
for me.

$225 shipped in the US.

Thanks!
(cutting board not included)
https://flic.kr/p/2psqz2m
https://flic.kr/p/2psveze
https://flic.kr/p/2psxptT

Also, looking for a the following:
9 speed RD that can handle a 36t rear cassette.
Rim brake wheelset that isn't too race-oriented, but also not too 
overbuilt, and has tubeless potential.
Cheers!
Ben in L.A.

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[RBW] Re: First turns of the pedals on my new Platypus

[Joe Bernard]

That's a nice bike! I totally agree about trigger shifters, they work and I 
love them. The derailleur my trigger works with on my Clem (SRAM) is also 
pretty ugly but I can't see it while it's working fabulously on a ride. No 
problem! 

Joe Bernard 

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 11:28:40 AM UTC-8 Tim Bantham wrote:

> We had a rare 41 and sunny day here in upstate NY so I decided to take my 
> new Platypus for a quick spin. Here are my observations on the complete in 
> Sergio Green.
>
> *Color *- The color looks amazing in the sunlight. Nice little gold hue 
> to the green. 
> *Shifters* - I thought I would want to swap the trigger shifter out right 
> away. On the contrary. The shifting is nice and crisp on the rear SunRace 
> derailleur. Aesthetically I don't love the way the derailleurs look 
> (especially the front) but it just shifts so well! I might just leave it 
> alone. 
> *Drive train* - The 42/30 Silver crankset is perfect. I usually ride a 
> 175 crankarms on all my bikes. I don't even notice that this one is a 173. 
> *Geometry *- My first experience riding a mixte. I got to say my initial 
> impression is two thumbs up. Rides great and feels surprisingly zippy. The 
> slack head tube make for a great handling mellow ride. 
> *Wheels* - The stock wheelset is pretty darn nice! Alex 21's laced to 
> Novatec hubs. The rear Novetec is dead silent. Folks pay $450 for a Onyx to 
> get that silent drive. These are pretty nice wheels although I'll probably 
> build up some Velocity Quills so I can have a dyno hub. 
> *Bars *- Swapping out the Tosco bars for the Billies was the right choice 
> for me. I've had good experience with these bars and they will be great! 
> *Stem* - I thought I wanted a 13cm stem to accommodate my long arms. 
> Honestly I don't think I would notice much of a difference going from the 
> 11cm stem that came with it. 
>
> I still need to add grips and install my front rack. This bike is pure joy 
> so far! 
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[John Rinker]

May each of you reach and fully enjoy reaching each of your SMART goals 
throughout the upcoming year! 

Steve, I really align with your goal of enjoying each ride, and this will 
continue to be a goal for me. I find the crux of the matter lies in being 
*present* during each of my rides; the more present I am the more I seem to 
enjoy the ride. Being present means I listen to my tires roll over the 
trail, smell the cedars, and glimpse the birds, fish, and other wildlife or 
flowers and fungi that adorn our forest and river trails. I feel the 
vibrations and textures of the landscape, and I appreciate the working of 
my legs, lungs, and heart in concert to keep me moving. I often find that 
my mind has a mind of its own and wants to wander to places and times other 
than the here and now. It's so easy to be distracted by other cares only to 
snap to some time later and realize that I haven't taken in any of the 
things that make riding so wonderful. It is a long-standing goal to try and 
practice this in all I do, and especially when I do that which I love- 
riding a bike.

Cheers, John

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:16:00 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I like the Wandrer goals especially because it forces one to explore their 
> surroundings thoroughly. I haven't set a goal specific to this, but I 
> should consider it. It's probably my top pick for things that are magical 
> about riding a bike.  It's my kind of competitive. 
>
> The only goal I've explicitly set for myself is to bike-commute at least 
> once every week for the year, excluding vacation weeks. I only need to go 
> in twice a week, otherwise i'm wfh. It's about an hour's ride each way; not 
> too long but long enough it takes a bit of commitment.  I typically end up 
> in the 6000 - 7500 km range for the year. 
>
> Another, less explicit goal is to get out for at least a few overnighter 
> campouts on the bike. Three to six nights is reasonable. We have two dogs, 
> one of which is quite reactive and a stress-ball, so we can't get 
> dog-sitters nor take him with; this means I have to leave my partner to 
> take care of both dogs (which need to be walked separately) so being away 
> is a bit of an ask; hence the modest goal here. It's a balance. 
>
> On Friday 12 January 2024 at 18:32:41 UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My goals for 2024 are to enjoy every ride I take and to break for coffee 
>> outdoors on any ride over one hour in duration. We'll see if I can achieve 
>> them. 
>>
>> Steve in Asheville
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 8:19:54 PM UTC-5 ttoshi wrote:
>>
>>> I'm planning on completing a 200k, 300k and 400k randonee in preparation 
>>> for the SRCC Terrible Two (TT), where I am hoping to finish with at least 
>>> an hour of time to spare.  I've only completed the TT with under 30 minutes 
>>> to spare and am trying to pick up the pace for "fun", why not?
>>>
>>> Toshi
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Ron Mc]

What makes a bike joyous is not 1 mph, 15 mph, or 23 mph, but the dynamic 
changes between those velocities.  

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 7:25:57 PM UTC-6 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Chris made some good points.   I am not justifying a heavy bike, merely 
> pointing out what you can expect if you take that trip & 'go down the 
> rabbit hole' wrt to reducing frame weight and overall weight including the 
> rims/tires.  You may not get your kicks on Rt 66 ('when you take that CA 
> trip...")
>
> Good point on wheels.   If you maintain a constant speed, you minimize the 
> acceleration and reduce the effect wheels have.   But real world riding has 
> a lot of acceleration , so lighter wheels help.  The biggest effect was 
> probably the change from STEEL RIMS to AL RIMS in rotational inertial.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 08:05:11 PM EST, Chris Fly <
> four...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> if you just look at the numbers, you can go down a long rabbit hole and 
> certainly justify a heavy bike.. I agree 1mph isn't anything.. what you 
> can't justify with numbers is what a heavy bike *feels* like when 
> riding.. some heavier bikes certainly can "ride light", but many don't in 
> my experience.. same with heavier wheels or tires, my 650b Hilsen with 
> Rich-built wheels and 42mm Compass tires do NOT feel like they spin up as 
> well as my Serotta with HED Belgium tires with 28mm Vittoria Corsas on it.. 
>
> I would never begrudge someone riding what they want to ride, but often, 
> heavy is just that.. heavy..
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:49:18 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
> During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
> following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 
> mph, given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
> 
> It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
> practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but 
> I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light 
> already though. 
>
> I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the 
> drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that 
> all that money would only save me a third of a pound.
>
> On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
> Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big 
> gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up 
> fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will 
> sure help shave some grams.
>
>
> When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight 
> off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine 
> so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the 
> bike. :)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: Roadini 54 Sergio Green

[Doug H.]

My message was poorly worded. I like the Sergio Green. In fact, I've liked 
all of the green Rivendells I've seen. Orange isn't my favorite though so 
my hesitation on buying the like new Orange frameset that is now on 
Craigslist. Thanks all for you help and tips. I'll let this thread roll on 
down the list.
Doug

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:21:51 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Doug -
> Maybe the lighting in the photos are not true to the color of Sergio green 
> despite the wording being so ? ... or ? 
>
> At any rate, I hope you find what you are looking for in less time than 
> you anticipate. Maybe it will be a serendipity experience, like it was with 
> and my blue Clem. 
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:57:40 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Hi Kim,
>> Yeah they do! The price is higher but if I really want green then that is 
>> my only option. Orange is available used for less money. Decisions, 
>> decisions... :-)
>> Doug
>>
>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Blue Lug has a Rivendell 54 Roadini Framset in Sergio Green in stock !
>>>
>>> https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-roadini-frame-set-sergio-green.html
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 1:17:36 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 The first run used mid-reach (47-57mm) brakes, the current model uses 
 long-reach like Tektro R559. 

 On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 12:58:57 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Does the orange one have a different spec than the new ones? The 
> dropouts are perhaps different? Perhaps tire clearance as well? Just 
> asking. The Roaduno changed my mind. I have a tigged Riv (Clem) and a 
> fillet brazed one (Gus). So if I am to have a (completely unnecessary) 
> third Riv I decided it should be fully lugged.:)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 13, 2024, at 3:39 PM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> I did and have exchanged emails with him. Nice guy and that is a good 
> price. I'm hoping for one of the green framesets but if one doesn't come 
> along I may buy that orange one if it's still available. Thank you for 
> the 
> heads up!
>
> Doug
>
> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 3:18:51 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Doug, did you happen to see the 54 for sale on Craigslist, 
>> Cincinnati? I have talked to the guy & the price was down from $1,200 to 
>> just $950. It’s NOS or new never built or whatever. Looks new & is 
>> orange 
>> so from a previous batch? I seriously considered it as I could drive to 
>> pick it up but decided I did not need it.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2024, at 12:24 PM, Doug H.  wrote:
>>
>> I wanted to bump this up one time to see if anyone has a 54 for 
>> sale. I could buy a 50 from Riv but the saddle would be higher than I 
>> prefer on that size.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Doug
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 1:04:50 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> That is helpful Brian. Thank you. And, nice job on the sand-stand!
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 12:51:05 PM UTC-5 Brian 
>>> Cunningham wrote:
>>>
 Here's a visual, if it helps, of what a 54 looks like with approx. 
 74cm saddle height. If it's not instructive in terms of sizing, at 
 least it 
 can show you the possibilities of creating a quasi-kickstand out of 
 sand.

 Brian


 On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:18:35 AM UTC-8 Johnny Alien 
 wrote:

> It generally fits. He would be at the very top of what they 
> suggest for that size but if going for a road fit with drops being at 
> the 
> top is preferable to being at the bottom. Most of their "size up" 
> philosophy is based on upright relaxed riding.
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:55:30 AM UTC-5 
> rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> This is somewhat surprising as it does not seem to align with 
>> Riv’s published size suggestions? I too am 5’10” & ride with a 72cm 
>> saddle 
>> height. 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2023, at 10:14 AM, Doug H.  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had an email exchange with Will at Rivendell and he suggested 
>> a size 50 Roadini for me. I'm 5'10" with an 83 PBH and 71.5" saddle 
>> height. 
>> Since that size is in stock I'll probably get a frameset to build 
>> up. 
>> Thanks all.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:18:39 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 5:28:34 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 Chris made some good points.   I am not justifying a heavy bike, merely 
pointing out what you can expect if you take that trip & 'go down the rabbit 
hole' wrt to reducing frame weight and overall weight including the rims/tires. 
 You may not get your kicks on Rt 66 ('when you take that CA trip...")
Good point on wheels.   If you maintain a constant speed, you minimize the 
acceleration and reduce the effect wheels have.   But real world riding has a 
lot of acceleration , so lighter wheels help.  The biggest effect was probably 
the change from STEEL RIMS to AL RIMS in rotational inertial.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ
On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 08:05:11 PM EST, Chris Fly 
 wrote:  
 
 if you just look at the numbers, you can go down a long rabbit hole and 
certainly justify a heavy bike.. I agree 1mph isn't anything.. what you can't 
justify with numbers is what a heavy bike feels like when riding.. some heavier 
bikes certainly can "ride light", but many don't in my experience.. same with 
heavier wheels or tires, my 650b Hilsen with Rich-built wheels and 42mm Compass 
tires do NOT feel like they spin up as well as my Serotta with HED Belgium 
tires with 28mm Vittoria Corsas on it.. 
I would never begrudge someone riding what they want to ride, but often, heavy 
is just that.. heavy..

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:49:18 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 mph, 
given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.    
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but I’m 
glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light already 
though. 
I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the drivetrain 
stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that all that money 
would only save me a third of a pound.

On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:



Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big gain 
as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up fairly 
light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will sure help 
shave some grams.


When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight off 
the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine so I 
feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the bike. :)





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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 Yes, that is what I remember.  I dont know if the lady still has the podcast.  
 She had a shop in Cleveland, so if someone is from the area, maybe they can 
chime in.   
She also said if you feel like you want to push yourself back on the saddle, 
your distance to the bars is too great.  Counterintuitive, but I found it to be 
true, at least for drop bars.   
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ
On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 08:02:48 PM EST, Richard Rose 
 wrote:  
 
 12 pounds?
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2024, at 7:49 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch 
 wrote:



During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 mph, 
given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.    
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but I’m 
glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light already 
though. 
I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the drivetrain 
stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that all that money 
would only save me a third of a pound.

On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:



Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big gain 
as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up fairly 
light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will sure help 
shave some grams.


When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight off 
the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine so I 
feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the bike. :)





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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Chris Fly]

if you just look at the numbers, you can go down a long rabbit hole and 
certainly justify a heavy bike.. I agree 1mph isn't anything.. what you 
can't justify with numbers is what a heavy bike *feels* like when riding.. 
some heavier bikes certainly can "ride light", but many don't in my 
experience.. same with heavier wheels or tires, my 650b Hilsen with 
Rich-built wheels and 42mm Compass tires do NOT feel like they spin up as 
well as my Serotta with HED Belgium tires with 28mm Vittoria Corsas on it.. 

I would never begrudge someone riding what they want to ride, but often, 
heavy is just that.. heavy..

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:49:18 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
> following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 
> mph, given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
>> practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but 
>> I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light 
>> already though. 
>>
>> I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the 
>> drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that 
>> all that money would only save me a third of a pound.
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>> Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a 
>> big gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it 
>> set up fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components 
>> will sure help shave some grams.
>>
>>
>> When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight 
>> off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine 
>> so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the 
>> bike. :)
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Richard Rose]

12 pounds?Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 14, 2024, at 7:49 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 mph, given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.    John HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light already though. I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that all that money would only save me a third of a pound.On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will sure help shave some grams.When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the bike. :)



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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

During a appearance on The Opiniated Cyclist, Richard Schwinn stated the 
following:  Reducing the bike weight by 12 lbm, increases your speed by 1 
mph, given the same power input from testing Schwinn did.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:11:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> 
> It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of 
> practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but 
> I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light 
> already though. 
>
> I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the 
> drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that 
> all that money would only save me a third of a pound.
>
> On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
> Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big 
> gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up 
> fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will 
> sure help shave some grams.
>
>
> When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight 
> off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine 
> so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the 
> bike. :)
>
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>
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Re: [RBW] FS; SP Dyno wheel bundle

[Richard Rose]

Columbus, Ohio?Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 14, 2024, at 3:19 PM, 'joe kelly' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Sold almost everything from the quickbeam even kept a few things to put on my old Bridgestone. What is left is the Sp dyno wheel and the Jack brown green tires.So I’m gonna try selling them as a bundle. Wheel is a SP dyno hub laced to a Velocity Twin Hollow rim. I bought the parts from Rivendell and had the wheel built here in Columbus at Baer Wheels. I’m pretty sure the spokes are double butted but I can’t remember so assume they aren’t and be pleasantly if they are. It was the last thing I added to the quickbeam before cycling faded out for me so very probably less than 500 miles. The tires are in good shape, the one from the front has more tread than the other but both still have the checkerboard intact with lots of life left.Asking $250 for the bundle. Asking buyer to pay half the shipping as a separate payment once it is determined.Thank you Joe



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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: Roadini 54 Sergio Green

[Kim H.]

@Doug -
Maybe the lighting in the photos are not true to the color of Sergio green 
despite the wording being so ? ... or ? 

At any rate, I hope you find what you are looking for in less time than you 
anticipate. Maybe it will be a serendipity experience, like it was with and 
my blue Clem. 

Kim Hetzel.

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:57:40 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Hi Kim,
> Yeah they do! The price is higher but if I really want green then that is 
> my only option. Orange is available used for less money. Decisions, 
> decisions... :-)
> Doug
>
> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Blue Lug has a Rivendell 54 Roadini Framset in Sergio Green in stock !
>>
>> https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-roadini-frame-set-sergio-green.html
>>
>> Kim Hetzel.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 1:17:36 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> The first run used mid-reach (47-57mm) brakes, the current model uses 
>>> long-reach like Tektro R559. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 12:58:57 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Does the orange one have a different spec than the new ones? The 
 dropouts are perhaps different? Perhaps tire clearance as well? Just 
 asking. The Roaduno changed my mind. I have a tigged Riv (Clem) and a 
 fillet brazed one (Gus). So if I am to have a (completely unnecessary) 
 third Riv I decided it should be fully lugged.:)
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 13, 2024, at 3:39 PM, Doug H.  wrote:

 I did and have exchanged emails with him. Nice guy and that is a good 
 price. I'm hoping for one of the green framesets but if one doesn't come 
 along I may buy that orange one if it's still available. Thank you for the 
 heads up!

 Doug

 On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 3:18:51 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Doug, did you happen to see the 54 for sale on Craigslist, Cincinnati? 
> I have talked to the guy & the price was down from $1,200 to just $950. 
> It’s NOS or new never built or whatever. Looks new & is orange so from a 
> previous batch? I seriously considered it as I could drive to pick it up 
> but decided I did not need it.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 13, 2024, at 12:24 PM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> I wanted to bump this up one time to see if anyone has a 54 for sale. 
> I could buy a 50 from Riv but the saddle would be higher than I prefer on 
> that size.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 1:04:50 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> That is helpful Brian. Thank you. And, nice job on the sand-stand!
>> Doug
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 12:51:05 PM UTC-5 Brian Cunningham 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a visual, if it helps, of what a 54 looks like with approx. 
>>> 74cm saddle height. If it's not instructive in terms of sizing, at 
>>> least it 
>>> can show you the possibilities of creating a quasi-kickstand out of 
>>> sand.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:18:35 AM UTC-8 Johnny Alien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It generally fits. He would be at the very top of what they suggest 
 for that size but if going for a road fit with drops being at the top 
 is 
 preferable to being at the bottom. Most of their "size up" philosophy 
 is 
 based on upright relaxed riding.

 On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:55:30 AM UTC-5 
 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> This is somewhat surprising as it does not seem to align with 
> Riv’s published size suggestions? I too am 5’10” & ride with a 72cm 
> saddle 
> height. 
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 12, 2023, at 10:14 AM, Doug H.  wrote:
>
> I had an email exchange with Will at Rivendell and he suggested a 
> size 50 Roadini for me. I'm 5'10" with an 83 PBH and 71.5" saddle 
> height. 
> Since that size is in stock I'll probably get a frameset to build up. 
> Thanks all.
>
> Doug
>
> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:18:39 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 5:28:34 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> Frameset or complete would work. 
>> Doug Hansford
>> Athens, Ga
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 The discussion made me think about the various factors., especially Bill L's 
undergearing comments
In my case, I went from a touring style frame with 7 speeds wide range gearing 
(13-34) to a thin wall frame with 9 speeds wide range gearing (12-36).   While 
the 2 extra gears dont seem like much, they do you give you a gear where you 
did not have one, and if the new gear is just a little bit higher and you can 
use it, the 9 speed bike might 'seem' faster.  
Maybe I was undergeared on the 7 speed, because the next gear up was too high, 
while the 9 speed had a gear just a little bit higher than the 7 speed and I 
was comfortable in that gear.  So I seem faster.
Here is the gearing (gear inches) for the top 4 cogs in each.  Both used a 46T 
chainring
7sp    13T    15T    17T    20T    24T  97        84      74     63 
  52
9sp    12T    14T    16T    18T    21T 101      86      76      68      
58
My cruising range is 55 to 77, and the riding was predominately flat with small 
hills.  The 9 speed does have slightly higher gears in the cruising range and 
since the rides were predominately cruising, then being able to use the 
slightly higher gears could feel like the 9 speed 'seemed' faster.. Did do one 
(1) 10M time trail in the 9 speed thin wall and was not faster than in the 7 
speed.  Fitness could be a big variable, but I was a little disappointed the 
thin wall did not go much faster.   It sure seems like it wants 'to go" much 
better than the tourer.
So maybe Bill has something with 'undergearing' as a cause.  I think I'll say 
that, and just enjoy riding the thin wall 9 speed
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ





On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 05:13:15 PM EST, Patrick Moore 
 wrote:  
 
 Actually, "not really" is not true. Others have raised old issues in new ways 
that clarified them to some extent; for example, enumerating all the factors 
that might play a part in such a feeling, and the elaborations on the 
phenomenon rightly or wrongly called "planing"
On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 10:14 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

Not really, but it's fun rehashing old stories.
On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 8:07 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

In this year's revisiting of this topic, have you picked up anything new?
Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CA





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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be very interested in hearing more about your experiences with the 2
build kits. Please be sure to itemize the individual components and
describe how much you think each affected your riding experience. Also,
I'll be interested to learn how light you can get a Platypus (what size?)
with a top-end, presumably stripped down build.

My funnest bike is the lightest one, but I have and have had some almost as
fun that are, or were, much heavier.

"Balleur." Am I right in thinking that this is a facetious
francophon-ization of a common slang word for "all out"?

On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 1:21 PM Armand Kizirian 
wrote:

> The key here is to avoid the numbers, and focus on what the threshold is
> for *experience. *Let's investigate.
>
> Weight is traditionally discussed for going faster, but we are all
> "enlightened" enough to know to not spoil our riding experience with such
> matters. However, there are merits to the *pleasure* of the riding
> experience being improved, as it relates to weight.
>
> IF one routinely rides longer distances, particularly with lots of
> elevation gain, weight should be *considered*, but not *fraught* over.
> For shorter rides, particularly with minimal elevation change, weight has
> significantly less *potential* to interfere with the pleasure of our
> rides. So far, these examples are equating pleasure with reduced effort.
>
> However, the merits of a lightweight bicycle *can *be thoroughly enjoyed
> even within a ride as short as a few miles, with zero elevation change.
> This may depend on how much we care to *engage* with the bicycle, through
> spirited riding. All these factors depend on where we ride, how we ride,
> and where are thresholds lie for what is considered a "long" ride or one
> with "lots of climbing" (read: mental/physical fitness).
>
> I will say that our intuition for what things weigh, is naturally, quite
> terrible. It is far too easy to unnecessarily weigh a bicycle down when you
> have convenient means of carrying personal items. When it comes to the
> bicycle itself, most are not technically minded enough to consider the *net
> effects* of choosing various (beautiful) parts in a system, that may or
> may not result in a bicycle weighing over 30, 35, or 40 pounds.  Lastly,
> the gyroscopic forces of wheels are a worthy consideration, in the pursuit
> and *feel* of a well-riding bicycle. Sensibly lightweight rims, tires,
> and tubes (yes, tubes) will make the most difference. Note that I have not
> listed hubs there, as they do not participate in the gryoscopic forces of
> wheels.
>
> I am currently conducting an experiment with my recently acquired
> Platypus. I have purchased it as a complete, which I'll be enjoying for
> some time. I will then strip it down and put an incredibly "balleur" build
> kit onto it, with significant weight reduction in nearly every component.
> For example, as it relates to this thread, I will be maintaining a
> 110/74bcd triple crankset, but will be saving half a pound even compared to
> the Silver cranks.
>
> My experiment is for the following reasons:
>
> 1. To discover to what extent my Platypus can replace my drop-bar bicycle
> for longer distance riding.
> 2. The value of a $750 build kit vs a $2500+ build kit as a matter of
> *experience.*
> 2. A fun experiment in seeing how light a commuter can be (no compromise
> to functionality by the way, front and rear racks w/ dynamo lighting and
> kickstand will be present)
> 3. Lightweight parts happen to also be incredibly beautiful, well made,
> and in many circumstances, more durable and resilient.
>
> Thanks for reading.
> Armand
> Santa Monica, CA
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-8 Ron Mc wrote:
>
>> The scalar involved here, 6 lbs, and 15 lbs, hardly fits into weight
>> weenie discussion.
>> But I do remember a thread about why some bikes feel faster.  Less energy
>> going into changing the rotational speed of components means more energy
>> going directly into drive.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:31:30 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am not a weight weenie. I will take the beauty over the weight. I have
>>> enough low gears to not even think about.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> ...loving my beautiful retirement bicycle.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this
 list!  expect Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely
 to avoid breakage and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess.


 But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is
 built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile
 and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem
 some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising
 number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not
 mainstream but 

Re: [RBW] Re: Why do some bikes just feel consistently faster?

[Patrick Moore]

Actually, "not really" is not true. Others have raised old issues in new
ways that clarified them to some extent; for example, enumerating all the
factors that might play a part in such a feeling, and the elaborations on
the phenomenon rightly or wrongly called "planing"

On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 10:14 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Not really, but it's fun rehashing old stories.
>
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 8:07 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> In this year's revisiting of this topic, have you picked up anything new?
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>
>

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services

---

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[RBW] Re: New Jewelry for my Platypus

[Josh C]

Love it!

On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 4:10:31 PM UTC-5 Dorothy C wrote:

> Congratulations Leah. Now you have a one of a kind brake set on a custom 
> color Platy. 
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:10:51 PM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @Leah -
>>
>> I am certain with your new anodized bicycle parts will make you smile 
>> loudly with a lot of joy making you go faster than ever before.
>>
>> Enjoy !
>>
>> Kim Hetzel enjoying my blue 52cm Clem with a lot of joy and smiles. 
>>
>> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 3:40:37 PM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:
>>
>>> I had the pleasure to meet and converse with Paul at the Philly Bike 
>>> Expo. His approachability, perspective and overall friendliness adds to the 
>>> MUSA points and makes me a fan of his parts any time I can use them. I 
>>> think I'm dearly holding on to my orange Rambouillet because of the center 
>>> bolt Racer brakes I added years ago to make room for more fender and tire.
>>>
>>> Name that bike "Varod". 
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham 
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 8:28:30 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I have never had Paul anything. I’ve had whatever brakes and levers 
 came with my bikes and didn’t think any more about it. I did get my VO 
 brake levers anodized, but that batch of rose pink ano faded freakishly 
 fast and everything was silver 4 months later. 

 But I’m giving it another chance. Everyone talks about Paul, and Paul 
 sometimes offers their parts in pretty, anodized colors, but currently, 
 they do not. I emailed the company, asking if they happened to have any of 
 their pink levers laying around that they would be willing to sell me. I 
 got an email back from Paul, like THE Paul, who directed me to an employee 
 I won’t name here. He and I got in contact and he was so fun, right from 
 the start. We chatted and he looked at my bikes (I sent him my pics via 
 email) and we made a plan. 

 We colored it all. 

 The bolts, the brake body, the levers, the barrel adjustors ALL of it. 

 The parts came in 3 boxes, plus one extra little envelope. The envelope 
 had a small personalized gift from my new friend at Paul, just because, 
 with a handwritten note in the prettiest handwriting I’ve ever seen. 
 Swoon! 
 I opened the first box and it was wrapped like origami inside. I uncovered 
 the first gorgeous pieces and the breath left my body. So beautiful. 
 Quality even a novice can’t miss. Just what I wanted. Rich, rose color. 

 I would need to be with bike people to get the full joy out of this 
 experience. My bike shop knows about Paul Components. A blizzard is on its 
 way to Michigan and I knew my shop would not be busy. I put the pieces 
 back 
 in the box, loaded the boxes and my bike in the van and drove to the shop. 
 I came in and there were 4 mechanics and zero customers. “Guys!” I said, 
 “I 
 have a fun project for us to do, and I can’t do it without you! Who wants 
 to see what is in these boxes?” 

 So there we were on company time, hovering over these immaculate little 
 parcels, oohing and aahhing. There was extra swag in there, stuff I had 
 never seen. 

 “What’s this?” I asked, holding up a flat, wooden thing with Paul 
 emblems. 

 “It’s a carpenter’s pencil,” said the mechanic. I gave it to him.

 I left the bike with them and I should have it in the next couple/few 
 days, depending on how long the blizzard rages for. Not that I’ll get to 
 ride and try those beautiful Paul parts out; we are getting up to a foot 
 of 
 snow! For now they are only a visual treat. I can’t even imagine how 
 enamored I will be when I get to actually USE the brakes. 

 And what nice people. I was not expecting them to be so personable! I 
 have heard they are a small operation, but they *are* famous in their 
 own right - celebrity machinists, really - yet so kind to a layperson like 
 me.

 Here’s the photo I got before the parts shipped. “Whatcha think?” he 
 asked. 

 Oh, he knew. He knew he knocked it straight outta the park.

 Leah

  

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 Adam
You might want to verify with VO about the actual Q of their 50.4 crank.  They 
list a 144mm Q with a 118mm BB.  I exchanged emails with one member on the iBob 
list using the VO 50.4 crank and measured a 141.5mm Q with a 110mm BB.   This 
would indicated the Q stated by VO for their 50.4mm crank is lower than actual 
5mm  141.5 + (118-110) = 149.5 vs a VO claim of 144.   A 149.5mm Double is not 
quite low Q.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ
On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 03:15:52 PM EST, Adam 
 wrote:  
 
 Thanks for all the help everyone!
I definitely appreciate the V.O. cranks more now that I've seen the 
alternatives. I am still mulling it all over, but it seems like buying those 
and swapping the rings may be the thing for me.
FWIW, I've come to prefer more compact cassettes for the FLAT riding around 
Chicago. I replaced a 11-32 with a 12-27 and much prefer the new setup, mostly 
because wind is so constant. Realistically, I'll never use the smaller 
chainring here, but want it for potential travel.
Thanks!
Adam

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:58:45 AM UTC-6 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

On 10 Jan Adam asked:   " I'm thinking about moving away from a triple to a 
double in order to get a lower Q." 
One option is a 1980's Sugino AT (110/74mm BCD) set for a double, say 46-33, 
sicne 33T is the smallest 110mm BCD ring out there,  e.g. TA Zephyr on Peter 
White's site.  The AT was designed as a low Q triple.*  I have achieved 152mm Q 
with a Tange 127 cartridge BB and 2mm drive side spacer for a total asymmetry 
of 6mm, very close to the D-3U Sugino recommended.  The Outer ring FCL is 45mm 
and the Inner ring FCL is 37mm with a 43.5mm RCL.*  Others on the I-Bob list 
have stated 147mm Q. 
The AT Inner 74mm BCD ring uses very very low posts cast in the spider & 5mm 
spacers instead of higher cast posts using no spacer.  The Middle 110mm DCB 
ring protrudes further inward than the 74mm holes.  Therefore, removing the 
74mm Inner ring and spacers creates a double with the Inner ring chainbolt head 
being the limiting clearance to the chainstay.
The double has a Q of about 145mm with a 46-36.    The only problem with a 
110mm double is the smallest 110BCD ring in 33T.   However, with a 12-36 9 
speed cassette, a 46-33 is 1 gear higher than a 46-30 for a No Load low gear 
(24.1gi vs 20.4gi with 584x38).  
EBay seems to have a decent supply of AT's, I bought 2 a year ago, a 1980 and 
1984 one.
So unless you need the very lowest No Load low, a Sugino AT as a double may 
work. 
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:06 AM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

Hi all,
Adjacent to the triples thread, I'm thinking about moving away from a triple to 
a double in order to get a lower Q.
What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so? I think that 
would be doable with the Rene Herse cranks, but too much $$$ for me. Are there 
any cheaper options that will do that and give me a q in the 140s?
Second, drivetrain stuff is a little new to me. What determines how small a q 
factor a specific bike can have? I'm assuming chainstays play a role here? This 
hypothetical project is for a Hillborne, so I'd be curious what folks have used 
to get low q on their Hillbornes. I'm assuming I may have to change the BB as 
well.
Thanks!
Adam



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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Richard Rose]

Armand, yes, yes & yes! Your documentation will no doubt be very interesting. Let’s start with which triple crank will save you a full 1/2 pound?Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 14, 2024, at 3:21 PM, Armand Kizirian  wrote:The key here is to avoid the numbers, and focus on what the threshold is for experience. Let's investigate.Weight is traditionally discussed for going faster, but we are all "enlightened" enough to know to not spoil our riding experience with such matters. However, there are merits to the pleasure of the riding experience being improved, as it relates to weight. IF one routinely rides longer distances, particularly with lots of elevation gain, weight should be considered, but not fraught over. For shorter rides, particularly with minimal elevation change, weight has significantly less potential to interfere with the pleasure of our rides. So far, these examples are equating pleasure with reduced effort. However, the merits of a lightweight bicycle can be thoroughly enjoyed even within a ride as short as a few miles, with zero elevation change. This may depend on how much we care to engage with the bicycle, through spirited riding. All these factors depend on where we ride, how we ride, and where are thresholds lie for what is considered a "long" ride or one with "lots of climbing" (read: mental/physical fitness). I will say that our intuition for what things weigh, is naturally, quite terrible. It is far too easy to unnecessarily weigh a bicycle down when you have convenient means of carrying personal items. When it comes to the bicycle itself, most are not technically minded enough to consider the net effects of choosing various (beautiful) parts in a system, that may or may not result in a bicycle weighing over 30, 35, or 40 pounds.  Lastly, the gyroscopic forces of wheels are a worthy consideration, in the pursuit and feel of a well-riding bicycle. Sensibly lightweight rims, tires, and tubes (yes, tubes) will make the most difference. Note that I have not listed hubs there, as they do not participate in the gryoscopic forces of wheels. I am currently conducting an experiment with my recently acquired Platypus. I have purchased it as a complete, which I'll be enjoying for some time. I will then strip it down and put an incredibly "balleur" build kit onto it, with significant weight reduction in nearly every component. For example, as it relates to this thread, I will be maintaining a 110/74bcd triple crankset, but will be saving half a pound even compared to the Silver cranks. My experiment is for the following reasons: 1. To discover to what extent my Platypus can replace my drop-bar bicycle for longer distance riding. 2. The value of a $750 build kit vs a $2500+ build kit as a matter of experience.2. A fun experiment in seeing how light a commuter can be (no compromise to functionality by the way, front and rear racks w/ dynamo lighting and kickstand will be present) 3. Lightweight parts happen to also be incredibly beautiful, well made, and in many circumstances, more durable and resilient. Thanks for reading. ArmandSanta Monica, CAOn Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-8 Ron Mc wrote:The scalar involved here, 6 lbs, and 15 lbs, hardly fits into weight weenie discussion.  But I do remember a thread about why some bikes feel faster.  Less energy going into changing the rotational speed of components means more energy going directly into drive.  On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:31:30 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:I am not a weight weenie. I will take the beauty over the weight. I have enough low gears to not even think about. Kim Hetzel...loving my beautiful retirement bicycle. On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this list!  expect Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely to avoid breakage and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess. But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not mainstream but certainly not RBW-list media.I do think weight matters to how fast (or to put the same thing another way, how easy to pedal) a bike feels, but IME it's not the only or even the most determining factor, as some of the fastest "feeling" bikes I've owned have been relative tanks, and even had rather heavy wheels, tho' none had f+f+wheels. weighing 18 lb.But I've certainly owned frames much lighter than Rivendells that seemed as able to carry loads and be durable and, in some cases, consistently feel faster than the Rivs they replaced - tho' I've owned heavy frames that also felt faster than comparable Rivendells.On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 10:19 AM Chris Fly 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno

[Richard Rose]

Dang. I thought / hoped it would cost a bit less than those other frames. Certainly cost less to manufacture than a Platypus? More than a Clem but…If offered as a complete the build kit should be less than either the Clem or Platy. On second thought the Platy kit is just $525.00 so..?I know, just have to wait.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 8, 2024, at 2:47 PM, Edwin W  wrote:I heard from Riv HQ that they will come as frames ($1750 like other lugged frames) and completes (price and build list not released yet). Looking forward to seeing the colors and build list!EdwinOn Monday, January 8, 2024 at 8:06:52 AM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Well, the indication was a small adjustment but still long. I am guessing they will be shortened less than the length of the dropout slot. As a Clem & Gus owner the long stays are the main attraction of this particular single speed. That and it being fully lugged. I cannot answer the question of when are they too long but I think Riv figured out the sweet spot on their current models. Your results may vary.:)Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 8, 2024, at 8:51 AM, Doug H.  wrote:I too saw that they are planning to shorten the chainstays on the production Roaduno. At what point are the stays too long and how does too long affect ride quality?DougOn Monday, January 8, 2024 at 12:10:07 AM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:On Sunday, January 7, 2024 at 9:32:33 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:Speaking of Roaduno, I read in one of the earlier updates that the new bike is very similar to a Homer geometrically.  It's hard to keep up with changes, and I think we just need to wait until the end to know for sure what it'll be.  After that "just like a Homer" update, it seemed to get really long chainstays - much longer than the Homer.   Buy now they do say they're going to get shorter again.   



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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Armand Kizirian]

The key here is to avoid the numbers, and focus on what the threshold is 
for *experience. *Let's investigate.

Weight is traditionally discussed for going faster, but we are all 
"enlightened" enough to know to not spoil our riding experience with such 
matters. However, there are merits to the *pleasure* of the riding 
experience being improved, as it relates to weight. 

IF one routinely rides longer distances, particularly with lots of 
elevation gain, weight should be *considered*, but not *fraught* over. For 
shorter rides, particularly with minimal elevation change, weight has 
significantly less *potential* to interfere with the pleasure of our rides. 
So far, these examples are equating pleasure with reduced effort. 

However, the merits of a lightweight bicycle *can *be thoroughly enjoyed 
even within a ride as short as a few miles, with zero elevation change. 
This may depend on how much we care to *engage* with the bicycle, through 
spirited riding. All these factors depend on where we ride, how we ride, 
and where are thresholds lie for what is considered a "long" ride or one 
with "lots of climbing" (read: mental/physical fitness). 

I will say that our intuition for what things weigh, is naturally, quite 
terrible. It is far too easy to unnecessarily weigh a bicycle down when you 
have convenient means of carrying personal items. When it comes to the 
bicycle itself, most are not technically minded enough to consider the *net 
effects* of choosing various (beautiful) parts in a system, that may or may 
not result in a bicycle weighing over 30, 35, or 40 pounds.  Lastly, the 
gyroscopic forces of wheels are a worthy consideration, in the pursuit and 
*feel* of a well-riding bicycle. Sensibly lightweight rims, tires, and 
tubes (yes, tubes) will make the most difference. Note that I have not 
listed hubs there, as they do not participate in the gryoscopic forces of 
wheels. 

I am currently conducting an experiment with my recently acquired Platypus. 
I have purchased it as a complete, which I'll be enjoying for some time. I 
will then strip it down and put an incredibly "balleur" build kit onto it, 
with significant weight reduction in nearly every component. For example, 
as it relates to this thread, I will be maintaining a 110/74bcd triple 
crankset, but will be saving half a pound even compared to the Silver 
cranks. 

My experiment is for the following reasons: 

1. To discover to what extent my Platypus can replace my drop-bar bicycle 
for longer distance riding. 
2. The value of a $750 build kit vs a $2500+ build kit as a matter of 
*experience.*
2. A fun experiment in seeing how light a commuter can be (no compromise to 
functionality by the way, front and rear racks w/ dynamo lighting and 
kickstand will be present) 
3. Lightweight parts happen to also be incredibly beautiful, well made, and 
in many circumstances, more durable and resilient. 

Thanks for reading. 
Armand
Santa Monica, CA

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-8 Ron Mc wrote:

> The scalar involved here, 6 lbs, and 15 lbs, hardly fits into weight 
> weenie discussion.  
> But I do remember a thread about why some bikes feel faster.  Less energy 
> going into changing the rotational speed of components means more energy 
> going directly into drive.  
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:31:30 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am not a weight weenie. I will take the beauty over the weight. I have 
>> enough low gears to not even think about. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> ...loving my beautiful retirement bicycle. 
>>
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this list! 
>>>  expect Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely to 
>>> avoid breakage and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess.
>>>  
>>>
>>> But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is 
>>> built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile 
>>> and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem 
>>> some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising 
>>> number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not 
>>> mainstream but certainly not RBW-list media.
>>>
>>> I do think weight matters to how fast (or to put the same thing another 
>>> way, how easy to pedal) a bike *feels,* but IME it's not the only or 
>>> even the most determining factor, as some of the fastest "feeling" bikes 
>>> I've owned have been relative tanks, and even had rather heavy wheels, tho' 
>>> none had f+f+wheels. weighing 18 lb.
>>>
>>> But I've certainly owned frames much lighter than Rivendells that seemed 
>>> as able to carry loads and be durable and, in some cases, consistently feel 
>>> faster than the Rivs they replaced - tho' I've owned heavy frames that also 
>>> felt faster than comparable Rivendells.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 

[RBW] FS; SP Dyno wheel bundle

['joe kelly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Sold almost everything from the quickbeam even kept a few things to put on 
my old Bridgestone. What is left is the Sp dyno wheel and the Jack brown 
green tires.
So I’m gonna try selling them as a bundle. Wheel is a SP dyno hub laced to 
a Velocity Twin Hollow rim. I bought the parts from Rivendell and had the 
wheel built here in Columbus at Baer Wheels. I’m pretty sure the spokes are 
double butted but I can’t remember so assume they aren’t and be pleasantly 
if they are. It was the last thing I added to the quickbeam before cycling 
faded out for me so very probably less than 500 miles. The tires are in 
good shape, the one from the front has more tread than the other but both 
still have the checkerboard intact with lots of life left.
Asking $250 for the bundle. Asking buyer to pay half the shipping as a 
separate payment once it is determined.
Thank you 
Joe

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[RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

[Adam]

Thanks for all the help everyone!

I definitely appreciate the V.O. cranks more now that I've seen the 
alternatives. I am still mulling it all over, but it seems like buying 
those and swapping the rings may be the thing for me.

FWIW, I've come to prefer more compact cassettes for the FLAT riding around 
Chicago. I replaced a 11-32 with a 12-27 and much prefer the new setup, 
mostly because wind is so constant. Realistically, I'll never use the 
smaller chainring here, but want it for potential travel.

Thanks!

Adam

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 11:58:45 AM UTC-6 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
NJ wrote:

> On 10 Jan Adam asked:   "  I'm thinking about moving away from a triple to 
> a double in order to get a lower Q." 
>
> One option is a 1980's Sugino AT (110/74mm BCD) set for a double, say 
> 46-33, sicne 33T is the smallest 110mm BCD ring out there,  e.g. TA Zephyr 
> on Peter White's site.  The AT was designed as a low Q triple.
> *  I have achieved 152mm Q with a Tange 127 cartridge BB and 2mm drive 
> side spacer for a total asymmetry of 6mm, very close to the D-3U Sugino 
> recommended.  The Outer ring FCL is 45mm and the Inner ring FCL is 37mm 
> with a 43.5mm RCL.
> *  Others on the I-Bob list have stated 147mm Q. 
>
> The AT Inner 74mm BCD ring uses very very low posts cast in the spider & 
> 5mm spacers instead of higher cast posts using no spacer.  The Middle 110mm 
> DCB ring protrudes further inward than the 74mm holes.  Therefore, removing 
> the 74mm Inner ring and spacers creates a double with the Inner ring 
> chainbolt head being the limiting clearance to the chainstay.
>
> The double has a Q of about 145mm with a 46-36.The only problem with a 
> 110mm double is the smallest 110BCD ring in 33T.   However, with a 12-36 9 
> speed cassette, a 46-33 is 1 gear higher than a 46-30 for a No Load low 
> gear (24.1gi vs 20.4gi with 584x38).  
>
> EBay seems to have a decent supply of AT's, I bought 2 a year ago, a 1980 
> and 1984 one.
>
> So unless you need the very lowest No Load low, a Sugino AT as a double 
> may work. 
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:06 AM UTC-5 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Adjacent to the triples thread, I'm thinking about moving away from a 
>> triple to a double in order to get a lower Q.
>>
>> What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so? I 
>> think that would be doable with the Rene Herse cranks, but too much $$$ for 
>> me. Are there any cheaper options that will do that and give me a q in the 
>> 140s?
>>
>> Second, drivetrain stuff is a little new to me. What determines how small 
>> a q factor a specific bike can have? I'm assuming chainstays play a role 
>> here? This hypothetical project is for a Hillborne, so I'd be curious what 
>> folks have used to get low q on their Hillbornes. I'm assuming I may have 
>> to change the BB as well.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS; Pile o’ parts! Dyno wheel, lights, brooks, nitto etc

['joe kelly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Shifters sold.

On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 10:12:39 AM UTC-5 joe kelly wrote:

> Update
> The Quickbeam ff/hs/bb has sold along with the crank, the original wheels, 
> post and the 5sp rear wheel. This leaves me with a pile o’ parts! 
> I have sks fenders, downtube shifters on bar end pods, albatross bars, 
> technomic stem, campee front rack, two wald baskets lg and sm, eyc front 
> light, Bm rear light, brooks b.17, randi jo cover, Mks sneaker pedals, Jack 
> brown green tires and the front dyno wheel.
> For pricing I’m asking half of what Rivendell sells the item for new. 
> Everything is in good used condition. On the dyno wheel I used my best 
> guess got what a hand built wheel is worth.
> For shipping I would ask that buyer and I split the actual cost. I would 
> ask for payment of items then a second payment that would be half of 
> shipping. Clunky perhaps but I think it’s at least a fair way to do it. 
> I’ll attach a pic of the price list.
> Thanks
> Joe
>

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[RBW] Re: First turns of the pedals on my new Platypus

[Doug H.]

That Sergio Green is on par with Lime Olive, maybe better. Wow, that saddle 
is way up there! The bike looks great already even without grips.
Doug

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 4:05:22 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Another happy Platypus owner. I’m so happy you’re enjoying it; it will be 
> fun to see what customizations you arrive at as you discover how you’d like 
> the setup to be. Starting with new Paul brakes, so I hear!
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 2:28:40 PM UTC-5 Tim Bantham wrote:
>
>> We had a rare 41 and sunny day here in upstate NY so I decided to take my 
>> new Platypus for a quick spin. Here are my observations on the complete in 
>> Sergio Green.
>>
>> *Color *- The color looks amazing in the sunlight. Nice little gold hue 
>> to the green. 
>> *Shifters* - I thought I would want to swap the trigger shifter out 
>> right away. On the contrary. The shifting is nice and crisp on the rear 
>> SunRace derailleur. Aesthetically I don't love the way the derailleurs look 
>> (especially the front) but it just shifts so well! I might just leave it 
>> alone. 
>> *Drive train* - The 42/30 Silver crankset is perfect. I usually ride a 
>> 175 crankarms on all my bikes. I don't even notice that this one is a 173. 
>> *Geometry *- My first experience riding a mixte. I got to say my initial 
>> impression is two thumbs up. Rides great and feels surprisingly zippy. The 
>> slack head tube make for a great handling mellow ride. 
>> *Wheels* - The stock wheelset is pretty darn nice! Alex 21's laced to 
>> Novatec hubs. The rear Novetec is dead silent. Folks pay $450 for a Onyx to 
>> get that silent drive. These are pretty nice wheels although I'll probably 
>> build up some Velocity Quills so I can have a dyno hub. 
>> *Bars *- Swapping out the Tosco bars for the Billies was the right 
>> choice for me. I've had good experience with these bars and they will be 
>> great! 
>> *Stem* - I thought I wanted a 13cm stem to accommodate my long arms. 
>> Honestly I don't think I would notice much of a difference going from the 
>> 11cm stem that came with it. 
>>
>> I still need to add grips and install my front rack. This bike is pure 
>> joy so far! 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO: Roadini 54 Sergio Green

[Doug H.]

Hi Kim,
Yeah they do! The price is higher but if I really want green then that is 
my only option. Orange is available used for less money. Decisions, 
decisions... :-)
Doug

On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 11:08:26 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Blue Lug has a Rivendell 54 Roadini Framset in Sergio Green in stock !
>
> https://global.bluelug.com/rivendell-roadini-frame-set-sergio-green.html
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 1:17:36 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> The first run used mid-reach (47-57mm) brakes, the current model uses 
>> long-reach like Tektro R559. 
>>
>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 12:58:57 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does the orange one have a different spec than the new ones? The 
>>> dropouts are perhaps different? Perhaps tire clearance as well? Just 
>>> asking. The Roaduno changed my mind. I have a tigged Riv (Clem) and a 
>>> fillet brazed one (Gus). So if I am to have a (completely unnecessary) 
>>> third Riv I decided it should be fully lugged.:)
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 13, 2024, at 3:39 PM, Doug H.  wrote:
>>>
>>> I did and have exchanged emails with him. Nice guy and that is a good 
>>> price. I'm hoping for one of the green framesets but if one doesn't come 
>>> along I may buy that orange one if it's still available. Thank you for the 
>>> heads up!
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 3:18:51 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Doug, did you happen to see the 54 for sale on Craigslist, Cincinnati? 
 I have talked to the guy & the price was down from $1,200 to just $950. 
 It’s NOS or new never built or whatever. Looks new & is orange so from a 
 previous batch? I seriously considered it as I could drive to pick it up 
 but decided I did not need it.
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 13, 2024, at 12:24 PM, Doug H.  wrote:

 I wanted to bump this up one time to see if anyone has a 54 for sale. 
 I could buy a 50 from Riv but the saddle would be higher than I prefer on 
 that size.

 Thanks,
 Doug

 On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 1:04:50 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> That is helpful Brian. Thank you. And, nice job on the sand-stand!
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 12:51:05 PM UTC-5 Brian Cunningham 
> wrote:
>
>> Here's a visual, if it helps, of what a 54 looks like with approx. 
>> 74cm saddle height. If it's not instructive in terms of sizing, at least 
>> it 
>> can show you the possibilities of creating a quasi-kickstand out of sand.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:18:35 AM UTC-8 Johnny Alien 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It generally fits. He would be at the very top of what they suggest 
>>> for that size but if going for a road fit with drops being at the top 
>>> is 
>>> preferable to being at the bottom. Most of their "size up" philosophy 
>>> is 
>>> based on upright relaxed riding.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 9:55:30 AM UTC-5 
>>> rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 This is somewhat surprising as it does not seem to align with Riv’s 
 published size suggestions? I too am 5’10” & ride with a 72cm saddle 
 height. 
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 12, 2023, at 10:14 AM, Doug H.  wrote:

 I had an email exchange with Will at Rivendell and he suggested a 
 size 50 Roadini for me. I'm 5'10" with an 83 PBH and 71.5" saddle 
 height. 
 Since that size is in stock I'll probably get a frameset to build up. 
 Thanks all.

 Doug

 On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 12:18:39 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 5:28:34 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
> Frameset or complete would work. 
> Doug Hansford
> Athens, Ga
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Ron Mc]

The scalar involved here, 6 lbs, and 15 lbs, hardly fits into weight weenie 
discussion.  
But I do remember a thread about why some bikes feel faster.  Less energy 
going into changing the rotational speed of components means more energy 
going directly into drive.  

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:31:30 PM UTC-6 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am not a weight weenie. I will take the beauty over the weight. I have 
> enough low gears to not even think about. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> ...loving my beautiful retirement bicycle. 
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this list! 
>>  expect Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely to 
>> avoid breakage and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess. 
>>
>> But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is 
>> built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile 
>> and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem 
>> some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising 
>> number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not 
>> mainstream but certainly not RBW-list media.
>>
>> I do think weight matters to how fast (or to put the same thing another 
>> way, how easy to pedal) a bike *feels,* but IME it's not the only or 
>> even the most determining factor, as some of the fastest "feeling" bikes 
>> I've owned have been relative tanks, and even had rather heavy wheels, tho' 
>> none had f+f+wheels. weighing 18 lb.
>>
>> But I've certainly owned frames much lighter than Rivendells that seemed 
>> as able to carry loads and be durable and, in some cases, consistently feel 
>> faster than the Rivs they replaced - tho' I've owned heavy frames that also 
>> felt faster than comparable Rivendells.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 10:19 AM Chris Fly  wrote:
>>
>>> ... I fully believe a 15# weight difference WILL make a fairly big 
>>> difference on a ride, esp one with hills.. at least for how I like to ride. 
>>> I got my first Riv back in 2008ish and Grant certainly wasn't worrying 
>>> about weight then as my Bleriot I had was certainly overbuilt for sure, but 
>>> it wasn't too crazy.. 
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, I'm certain I'm the outlier here in my thinking and that's ok, I 
>>> still love looking at the classic Rivs and enjoy riding my Dad's AHH. 
>>>
>>> Chris in Sonoma County 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Kim H.]

I am not a weight weenie. I will take the beauty over the weight. I have 
enough low gears to not even think about. 

Kim Hetzel
...loving my beautiful retirement bicycle. 

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this list!  
> expect 
> Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely to avoid breakage 
> and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess. 
>
> But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is 
> built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile 
> and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem 
> some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising 
> number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not 
> mainstream but certainly not RBW-list media.
>
> I do think weight matters to how fast (or to put the same thing another 
> way, how easy to pedal) a bike *feels,* but IME it's not the only or even 
> the most determining factor, as some of the fastest "feeling" bikes I've 
> owned have been relative tanks, and even had rather heavy wheels, tho' none 
> had f+f+wheels. weighing 18 lb.
>
> But I've certainly owned frames much lighter than Rivendells that seemed 
> as able to carry loads and be durable and, in some cases, consistently feel 
> faster than the Rivs they replaced - tho' I've owned heavy frames that also 
> felt faster than comparable Rivendells.
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 10:19 AM Chris Fly  wrote:
>
>> ... I fully believe a 15# weight difference WILL make a fairly big 
>> difference on a ride, esp one with hills.. at least for how I like to ride. 
>> I got my first Riv back in 2008ish and Grant certainly wasn't worrying 
>> about weight then as my Bleriot I had was certainly overbuilt for sure, but 
>> it wasn't too crazy.. 
>
>
>> Anyway, I'm certain I'm the outlier here in my thinking and that's ok, I 
>> still love looking at the classic Rivs and enjoy riding my Dad's AHH. 
>>
>> Chris in Sonoma County 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Low q, low range 2x cranks

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On 10 Jan Adam asked:   "  I'm thinking about moving away from a triple to 
a double in order to get a lower Q." 

One option is a 1980's Sugino AT (110/74mm BCD) set for a double, say 
46-33, sicne 33T is the smallest 110mm BCD ring out there,  e.g. TA Zephyr 
on Peter White's site.  The AT was designed as a low Q triple.
*  I have achieved 152mm Q with a Tange 127 cartridge BB and 2mm drive side 
spacer for a total asymmetry of 6mm, very close to the D-3U Sugino 
recommended.  The Outer ring FCL is 45mm and the Inner ring FCL is 37mm 
with a 43.5mm RCL.
*  Others on the I-Bob list have stated 147mm Q. 

The AT Inner 74mm BCD ring uses very very low posts cast in the spider & 
5mm spacers instead of higher cast posts using no spacer.  The Middle 110mm 
DCB ring protrudes further inward than the 74mm holes.  Therefore, removing 
the 74mm Inner ring and spacers creates a double with the Inner ring 
chainbolt head being the limiting clearance to the chainstay.

The double has a Q of about 145mm with a 46-36.The only problem with a 
110mm double is the smallest 110BCD ring in 33T.   However, with a 12-36 9 
speed cassette, a 46-33 is 1 gear higher than a 46-30 for a No Load low 
gear (24.1gi vs 20.4gi with 584x38).  

EBay seems to have a decent supply of AT's, I bought 2 a year ago, a 1980 
and 1984 one.

So unless you need the very lowest No Load low, a Sugino AT as a double may 
work. 

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 11:15:06 AM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Adjacent to the triples thread, I'm thinking about moving away from a 
> triple to a double in order to get a lower Q.
>
> What are options for double cranksets that are around 40/26 or so? I think 
> that would be doable with the Rene Herse cranks, but too much $$$ for me. 
> Are there any cheaper options that will do that and give me a q in the 140s?
>
> Second, drivetrain stuff is a little new to me. What determines how small 
> a q factor a specific bike can have? I'm assuming chainstays play a role 
> here? This hypothetical project is for a Hillborne, so I'd be curious what 
> folks have used to get low q on their Hillbornes. I'm assuming I may have 
> to change the BB as well.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Adam
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Patrick Moore]

It's interesting to view a moderately weight weenie thread on this
list!  expect
Rivendell make their frames as heavy as they are largely to avoid breakage
and resulting costs of return or repairs; that's a guess.

But reviewers of even the Clem, which I gather from list discussions is
built with heavier tubing than the Platypus, describe it as feeling agile
and fast; I recall Patrick O'Grady's very favorable review of his new Clem
some years ago I can't find it right now but I did come across a surprising
number of positive reviews of the Clem in the -- well, perhaps not
mainstream but certainly not RBW-list media.

I do think weight matters to how fast (or to put the same thing another
way, how easy to pedal) a bike *feels,* but IME it's not the only or even
the most determining factor, as some of the fastest "feeling" bikes I've
owned have been relative tanks, and even had rather heavy wheels, tho' none
had f+f+wheels. weighing 18 lb.

But I've certainly owned frames much lighter than Rivendells that seemed as
able to carry loads and be durable and, in some cases, consistently feel
faster than the Rivs they replaced - tho' I've owned heavy frames that also
felt faster than comparable Rivendells.

On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 10:19 AM Chris Fly  wrote:

> ... I fully believe a 15# weight difference WILL make a fairly big
> difference on a ride, esp one with hills.. at least for how I like to ride.
> I got my first Riv back in 2008ish and Grant certainly wasn't worrying
> about weight then as my Bleriot I had was certainly overbuilt for sure, but
> it wasn't too crazy..
>
> Anyway, I'm certain I'm the outlier here in my thinking and that's ok, I
> still love looking at the classic Rivs and enjoy riding my Dad's AHH.
>
> Chris in Sonoma County
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Chris Fly]

I think weight matters and one of the main reasons I LOVE looking at the 
Riv site and Riv bikes. but currently only own my Dad's AHH that was given 
to me when he passed.. I would never quibble over a couple pounds here or 
there, but reading through this thread and seeing the OP's 
frame/fork/wheels weigh 18# (if I read it correctly) is insane to me.. I 
fully believe a 15# weight difference WILL make a fairly big difference on 
a ride, esp one with hills.. at least for how I like to ride. I got my 
first Riv back in 2008ish and Grant certainly wasn't worrying about weight 
then as my Bleriot I had was certainly overbuilt for sure, but it wasn't 
too crazy.. 

Anyway, I'm certain I'm the outlier here in my thinking and that's ok, I 
still love looking at the classic Rivs and enjoy riding my Dad's AHH. 

Chris in Sonoma County 

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 7:49:52 AM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Which circles back to original post. Having disassembled my Silver crank I 
> have a new appreciation for it. It’s quite beautifully manufactured and now 
> lighter thanks to the aluminum chainring. White Industries square taper 
> crank in comparison is also beautiful & MUSA. But, complete with chainrings 
> weighs 624 grams & cost $521.00. Silver crank complete with chainguard 
> weighs 781 grams & cost $280.00. So for your extra $241.00 you save 157 
> grams or .346 lb.
> At the end of the day (kind of hate that phrase, not sure why?) as Riv 
> owners our frames are heavy especially in my case (Clem & Gus) as are our 
> wheels particularly if you are running larger tires & dynamo hubs. That 
> leaves the remainder of the components where any marginal gains are 
> expensive.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 14, 2024, at 9:09 AM, Sarah Carlson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Leah,  now you will probably chime in with me and Joe on the conversations 
> when we discuss how a crank can also be beautiful. Because once you 
> recognize it you won't be able to unsee it!
>
> Sarah
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> You guys are going to make me want to fall down the rabbit hole again and 
>> find little ways to lighten up my raspberry Platypus. And I have now just 
>> practically sent an invitation for people to tell me that weight doesn’t 
>> matter and I should think about the engine (me) and so on  but not even 
>> they can discourage me! I can have one bike to be irrational about.
>>
>> I did do a version of this of the Formerly Mine Clem. I got aluminum bars 
>> and new wheels and tires, got rid of the basket rack and it did make a 
>> difference. I was riding that thing for all purposes, including for fast 
>> exercise kind of rides. Dumb, but whatever. 
>>
>> I don’t know about this White Industries stuff but I suppose I’ll go read 
>> about them now.
>> Thanks a lot you guys. Yikes.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:13:09 AM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. 
>>> which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but 
>>> currently doesn't have front rack and basket.
>>> There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight 
>>> guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 
>>> 800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...
>>> Oh dear...
>>>
>> -- 
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Leah Peterson]

It will always have a dyno hub. I just can’t give up that kind of practicality. I didn’t know Paul components would save me any weight but I’m glad if they do. My Velo Orange levers were pretty feather-light already though. I probably do have the Platy set up as light as I dare, save the drivetrain stuff from White Industries. And Richard has a good point that all that money would only save me a third of a pound.On Jan 14, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will sure help shave some grams.When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the bike. :)



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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Richard Rose]

Which circles back to original post. Having disassembled my Silver crank I have a new appreciation for it. It’s quite beautifully manufactured and now lighter thanks to the aluminum chainring. White Industries square taper crank in comparison is also beautiful & MUSA. But, complete with chainrings weighs 624 grams & cost $521.00. Silver crank complete with chainguard weighs 781 grams & cost $280.00. So for your extra $241.00 you save 157 grams or .346 lb.At the end of the day (kind of hate that phrase, not sure why?) as Riv owners our frames are heavy especially in my case (Clem & Gus) as are our wheels particularly if you are running larger tires & dynamo hubs. That leaves the remainder of the components where any marginal gains are expensive.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 14, 2024, at 9:09 AM, Sarah Carlson  wrote:Leah,  now you will probably chime in with me and Joe on the conversations when we discuss how a crank can also be beautiful. Because once you recognize it you won't be able to unsee it!SarahOn Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:You guys are going to make me want to fall down the rabbit hole again and find little ways to lighten up my raspberry Platypus. And I have now just practically sent an invitation for people to tell me that weight doesn’t matter and I should think about the engine (me) and so on  but not even they can discourage me! I can have one bike to be irrational about.I did do a version of this of the Formerly Mine Clem. I got aluminum bars and new wheels and tires, got rid of the basket rack and it did make a difference. I was riding that thing for all purposes, including for fast exercise kind of rides. Dumb, but whatever. I don’t know about this White Industries stuff but I suppose I’ll go read about them now.Thanks a lot you guys. Yikes.LeahOn Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:13:09 AM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but currently doesn't have front rack and basket.There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...Oh dear...



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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Sarah Carlson]

Leah,  now you will probably chime in with me and Joe on the conversations 
when we discuss how a crank can also be beautiful. Because once you 
recognize it you won't be able to unsee it!

Sarah

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> You guys are going to make me want to fall down the rabbit hole again and 
> find little ways to lighten up my raspberry Platypus. And I have now just 
> practically sent an invitation for people to tell me that weight doesn’t 
> matter and I should think about the engine (me) and so on  but not even 
> they can discourage me! I can have one bike to be irrational about.
>
> I did do a version of this of the Formerly Mine Clem. I got aluminum bars 
> and new wheels and tires, got rid of the basket rack and it did make a 
> difference. I was riding that thing for all purposes, including for fast 
> exercise kind of rides. Dumb, but whatever. 
>
> I don’t know about this White Industries stuff but I suppose I’ll go read 
> about them now.
> Thanks a lot you guys. Yikes.
> Leah
>
> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:13:09 AM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. 
>> which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but 
>> currently doesn't have front rack and basket.
>> There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight 
>> guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 
>> 800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...
>> Oh dear...
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Johnny Alien]

Does the raspberry Platy still have a dyno hub? If so that would be a big 
gain as far as weight loss and lessening drag. Otherwise you have it set up 
fairly light from what I remember about your posts. Paul components will 
sure help shave some grams.

When weight is brought up the first thing Grant would say is take weight 
off the engine. Well I just took a massive amount of weight off the engine 
so I feel that I am now free and clear to be a weight weenie about the 
bike. :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

You guys are going to make me want to fall down the rabbit hole again and 
find little ways to lighten up my raspberry Platypus. And I have now just 
practically sent an invitation for people to tell me that weight doesn’t 
matter and I should think about the engine (me) and so on  but not even 
they can discourage me! I can have one bike to be irrational about.

I did do a version of this of the Formerly Mine Clem. I got aluminum bars 
and new wheels and tires, got rid of the basket rack and it did make a 
difference. I was riding that thing for all purposes, including for fast 
exercise kind of rides. Dumb, but whatever. 

I don’t know about this White Industries stuff but I suppose I’ll go read 
about them now.
Thanks a lot you guys. Yikes.
Leah

On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 6:13:09 AM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:

> This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. 
> which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but 
> currently doesn't have front rack and basket.
> There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight 
> guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 
> 800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...
> Oh dear...
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver crank surprise and the weight of things

[brendonoid]

This thread made me finally weigh my 59cm Susie and it came in 15.9kg. 
which is more than I thought tbh. It would be 17kg normally I guess but 
currently doesn't have front rack and basket.
There are a lot of places I could save weight I suppose. I have straight 
guage spokes, and b17 flyer, dyno with rear light. The R14 weighs over 
800grams, the old M565 LX hub is hefty...
Oh dear...

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