Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Michael McArthur]

I experienced the 'third design flaw' Max cites here whilst using Touring 
canti's and found it very frustrating. It limited my pad choice to very 
thin non-cartridge pads and choice of rims wider than 17mm inner width. I 
nearly ground off the extra lip that creates the pad/brake arm interference 
but instead just sold them. I've been much happier with the modern Shimano 
CX50/CX70 design and find it much more practical in every way. 

On Sunday, 15 October 2023 at 14:11:00 UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> I'll also chime in to say that Paul brakes have some advantageous features 
> (e.g., continuous spring tension adjustability), but also some features 
> that I find infuriating in actual use, and a few instances of downright 
> poor mechanical design. 
> One design flaw is the fully threaded mounting bolt on the Racer, which I 
> discussed in a slightly geeky thread on iBOB / with Mark Bulgier. It places 
> a stress riser precisely at the root, front of fork crown, where it should 
> be avoided at all costs. Perhaps the grade of the steel is above and beyond 
> what's been used in the past, but it would fail scrutiny in a basic 
> mechanical design class. 
> Another flaw has to do with using a separate steel sleeve fitting over the 
> canti stud. It puts the brake further out than it needs to, and the problem 
> it's presumably attempting to solve (warped studs, bearing corrosion?..) 
> creates problems with mounting in the first place, and is avoided entirely 
> by brass bushings on the majority of other brakes. I've encountered 
> problems mounting them on two frames, and a third frame I bought had one 
> VERY firmly stuck on the stud... Haven't had this issue with any of the 
> nearly two dozen conventional canti / V brakes I've used. 
> A third design flaw, IME, is the extra lip on the brake arm, forward of 
> and at 90% to the brake pad mounting hole, which limits how close the pad 
> can sit in the outboard direction. When trying to use this brake on bikes 
> with slightly narrower canti stud placement (which are good, from the 
> standpoint of minimizing pad dive), this extra lip creates rim clearance 
> problems. 
> But hey, you can get them in lots of colors, and they're US-made, and 
> they're made by an independent small shop, and they're a way to show you 
> care about your bike, which I do in plenty of other ways myself... And the 
> vast majority of us will not use them to the limit anyway. 
>
> I do like their brake levers, though! 
>
> - Max 
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:12:22 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Cost was a significant part of my argument, for sure.  Also, Zestes will 
>> work with the normal spring anchors on most posts.  I am not a fan of 
>> Paul's spring solution - it's tidy but I found it finicky to adjust (and 
>> keep adjusted) on the one set of minimotos I owned.  That said, the Zeste 
>> brakes are non-trivial to install.  Took me an hour to do the first but was 
>> slightly quicker with the second set.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> And!!! Zests are half the price of Pauls!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 2:05 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the 
 sloppy pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed 
 and juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal 
 at all or judder as much.

 On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used 
 but their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged 
 single pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per 
 amount 
 of hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or 
 the 
 Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots, 
 centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.

 I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they 
 would have been more powerful.

 Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and 
 perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that 
 elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.

 BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests 
 with Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.

 On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke  
 wrote:

> It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I 
> know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand 
> why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by 
> Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  
>
> I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo 
> Orange Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous 
> even.  Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.
>
> Will
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Max S]

I'll also chime in to say that Paul brakes have some advantageous features 
(e.g., continuous spring tension adjustability), but also some features 
that I find infuriating in actual use, and a few instances of downright 
poor mechanical design. 
One design flaw is the fully threaded mounting bolt on the Racer, which I 
discussed in a slightly geeky thread on iBOB / with Mark Bulgier. It places 
a stress riser precisely at the root, front of fork crown, where it should 
be avoided at all costs. Perhaps the grade of the steel is above and beyond 
what's been used in the past, but it would fail scrutiny in a basic 
mechanical design class. 
Another flaw has to do with using a separate steel sleeve fitting over the 
canti stud. It puts the brake further out than it needs to, and the problem 
it's presumably attempting to solve (warped studs, bearing corrosion?..) 
creates problems with mounting in the first place, and is avoided entirely 
by brass bushings on the majority of other brakes. I've encountered 
problems mounting them on two frames, and a third frame I bought had one 
VERY firmly stuck on the stud... Haven't had this issue with any of the 
nearly two dozen conventional canti / V brakes I've used. 
A third design flaw, IME, is the extra lip on the brake arm, forward of and 
at 90% to the brake pad mounting hole, which limits how close the pad can 
sit in the outboard direction. When trying to use this brake on bikes with 
slightly narrower canti stud placement (which are good, from the standpoint 
of minimizing pad dive), this extra lip creates rim clearance problems. 
But hey, you can get them in lots of colors, and they're US-made, and 
they're made by an independent small shop, and they're a way to show you 
care about your bike, which I do in plenty of other ways myself... And the 
vast majority of us will not use them to the limit anyway. 

I do like their brake levers, though! 

- Max 

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:12:22 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Cost was a significant part of my argument, for sure.  Also, Zestes will 
> work with the normal spring anchors on most posts.  I am not a fan of 
> Paul's spring solution - it's tidy but I found it finicky to adjust (and 
> keep adjusted) on the one set of minimotos I owned.  That said, the Zeste 
> brakes are non-trivial to install.  Took me an hour to do the first but was 
> slightly quicker with the second set.
>
> Will
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> And!!! Zests are half the price of Pauls!
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 2:05 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the 
>>> sloppy pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed 
>>> and juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal 
>>> at all or judder as much.
>>>
>>> On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used 
>>> but their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged 
>>> single pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per amount 
>>> of hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or the 
>>> Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots, 
>>> centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.
>>>
>>> I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they 
>>> would have been more powerful.
>>>
>>> Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and 
>>> perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that 
>>> elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.
>>>
>>> BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests 
>>> with Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I 
 know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand 
 why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by 
 Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  

 I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo 
 Orange Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous 
 even.  Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.

 Will

 On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo 
> Retro in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front 
> with the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 
> mm 
> bsd wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>
> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an 
> absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit 
> better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive 
> whisper. And 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Will Boericke]

Cost was a significant part of my argument, for sure.  Also, Zestes will 
work with the normal spring anchors on most posts.  I am not a fan of 
Paul's spring solution - it's tidy but I found it finicky to adjust (and 
keep adjusted) on the one set of minimotos I owned.  That said, the Zeste 
brakes are non-trivial to install.  Took me an hour to do the first but was 
slightly quicker with the second set.

Will

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> And!!! Zests are half the price of Pauls!
>
> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 2:05 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the sloppy 
>> pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed and 
>> juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal at 
>> all or judder as much.
>>
>> On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used 
>> but their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged 
>> single pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per amount 
>> of hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or the 
>> Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots, 
>> centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.
>>
>> I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they 
>> would have been more powerful.
>>
>> Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and 
>> perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that 
>> elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.
>>
>> BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests 
>> with Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke  wrote:
>>
>>> It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I 
>>> know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand 
>>> why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by 
>>> Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  
>>>
>>> I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo 
>>> Orange Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous 
>>> even.  Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo Retro 
 in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front with 
 the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 mm bsd 
 wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.

 I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an 
 absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit 
 better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive 
 whisper. And of course the Pauls are so easy to set up.

 Are the Pauls worth 5X the Tektros? IMO, the Tektros look better -- 
 more svelte, more shiny, at least when you remove the logo (tho' the 
 careful engineering and quality materials of the Pauls have their own 
 aesthetic merits) -- and are lighter (for what *that's* worth, but 
 Bill would approve) and in most situations I'd choose the Tektros over the 
 Pauls simply for looks and function, leaving aside price.

 But for a situation like mine, where the more precise machining 
 eliminates squeal and minimizes judder, I willingly paid 500% more for 
 Pauls.

 Note that I found both with Tektros and Pauls that I had to use them 
 for ~ 1K miles before the pads bedded in and I got maximum braking.

 -- 

 -
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 -

 Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
 services.


 -

 *When thou didst not, savage,*

 *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

 *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

 *With words that made them known.*

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/002dadd0-06e6-448d-a449-3c91f952c7aan%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Ryan]

those zeste cantilever brakes have a Meccano set vibe that I rather like
I have experience with the grand cru road. it wouldn't surprise me that 
these work well too.
I think velo orange is a great company

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 1:21:38 PM UTC-5 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I 
> know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand 
> why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by 
> Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  
>
> I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo Orange 
> Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous even.  
> Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.
>
> Will
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo Retro 
>> in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front with 
>> the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 mm bsd 
>> wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>>
>> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an 
>> absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit 
>> better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive 
>> whisper. And of course the Pauls are so easy to set up.
>>
>> Are the Pauls worth 5X the Tektros? IMO, the Tektros look better -- more 
>> svelte, more shiny, at least when you remove the logo (tho' the careful 
>> engineering and quality materials of the Pauls have their own aesthetic 
>> merits) -- and are lighter (for what *that's* worth, but Bill would 
>> approve) and in most situations I'd choose the Tektros over the Pauls 
>> simply for looks and function, leaving aside price.
>>
>> But for a situation like mine, where the more precise machining 
>> eliminates squeal and minimizes judder, I willingly paid 500% more for 
>> Pauls.
>>
>> Note that I found both with Tektros and Pauls that I had to use them for 
>> ~ 1K miles before the pads bedded in and I got maximum braking.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8db6481c-9039-495c-8919-bd63822ec687n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

And!!! Zests are half the price of Pauls!

On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 2:05 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the sloppy
> pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed and
> juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal at
> all or judder as much.
>
> On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used but
> their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged single
> pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per amount of
> hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or the
> Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots,
> centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.
>
> I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they would
> have been more powerful.
>
> Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and
> perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that
> elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.
>
> BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests
> with Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.
>
> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke 
> wrote:
>
>> It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I
>> know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand
>> why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by
>> Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.
>>
>> I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo
>> Orange Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous
>> even.  Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo Retro
>>> in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front with
>>> the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 mm bsd
>>> wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>>>
>>> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an
>>> absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit
>>> better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive
>>> whisper. And of course the Pauls are so easy to set up.
>>>
>>> Are the Pauls worth 5X the Tektros? IMO, the Tektros look better -- more
>>> svelte, more shiny, at least when you remove the logo (tho' the careful
>>> engineering and quality materials of the Pauls have their own aesthetic
>>> merits) -- and are lighter (for what *that's* worth, but Bill would
>>> approve) and in most situations I'd choose the Tektros over the Pauls
>>> simply for looks and function, leaving aside price.
>>>
>>> But for a situation like mine, where the more precise machining
>>> eliminates squeal and minimizes judder, I willingly paid 500% more for
>>> Pauls.
>>>
>>> Note that I found both with Tektros and Pauls that I had to use them for
>>> ~ 1K miles before the pads bedded in and I got maximum braking.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>>
>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>>
>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>>
>>> *With words that made them known.*
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/002dadd0-06e6-448d-a449-3c91f952c7aan%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the sloppy
pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed and
juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal at
all or judder as much.

On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used but
their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged single
pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per amount of
hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or the
Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots,
centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.

I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they would
have been more powerful.

Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and
perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that
elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.

BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests with
Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.

On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke  wrote:

> It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I
> know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand
> why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by
> Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.
>
> I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo Orange
> Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous even.
> Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.
>
> Will
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo Retro
>> in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front with
>> the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 mm bsd
>> wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>>
>> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an
>> absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit
>> better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive
>> whisper. And of course the Pauls are so easy to set up.
>>
>> Are the Pauls worth 5X the Tektros? IMO, the Tektros look better -- more
>> svelte, more shiny, at least when you remove the logo (tho' the careful
>> engineering and quality materials of the Pauls have their own aesthetic
>> merits) -- and are lighter (for what *that's* worth, but Bill would
>> approve) and in most situations I'd choose the Tektros over the Pauls
>> simply for looks and function, leaving aside price.
>>
>> But for a situation like mine, where the more precise machining
>> eliminates squeal and minimizes judder, I willingly paid 500% more for
>> Pauls.
>>
>> Note that I found both with Tektros and Pauls that I had to use them for
>> ~ 1K miles before the pads bedded in and I got maximum braking.
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/002dadd0-06e6-448d-a449-3c91f952c7aan%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services.

-

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Will Boericke]

It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I know 
they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand why.  In 
my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by Shimano 
CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  

I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo Orange 
Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous even.  
Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.

Will

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo Retro in 
> front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front with the 
> Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 mm bsd 
> wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>
> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an absurd 
> angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit better, 
> with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive whisper. 
> And of course the Pauls are so easy to set up.
>
> Are the Pauls worth 5X the Tektros? IMO, the Tektros look better -- more 
> svelte, more shiny, at least when you remove the logo (tho' the careful 
> engineering and quality materials of the Pauls have their own aesthetic 
> merits) -- and are lighter (for what *that's* worth, but Bill would 
> approve) and in most situations I'd choose the Tektros over the Pauls 
> simply for looks and function, leaving aside price.
>
> But for a situation like mine, where the more precise machining eliminates 
> squeal and minimizes judder, I willingly paid 500% more for Pauls.
>
> Note that I found both with Tektros and Pauls that I had to use them for ~ 
> 1K miles before the pads bedded in and I got maximum braking.
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/002dadd0-06e6-448d-a449-3c91f952c7aan%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Chris L]

I had the same issue and fixed it by going back to Deore V-brakes.  Haven't 
had a single issue with brake squeal since. 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
>> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
>> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
>> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
>> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret 
>> my purchases at all.
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>>
>>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>>> close to what you paid!
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>>
 PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
 They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
 opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.


 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:

> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
> ol' 
> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, good to know.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock 
>>> on new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on 
>>> the 
>>> road but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable 
>>> Pauls. 
>>> Your results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
 Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
 just 
 talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
 would 
 be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

 The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
 philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
> woot!). 
>

> Philip 
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Will Boericke]

After some wear, brake pads need to be re-toed in, because they will wear
flat to the rim surface.  I suspect that will solve your problems.

Will

On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 9:04 AM Kim H.  wrote:

> I would enjoy hearing the feedback from those folks, who have used
> Yokozuna brake pads verses Salmon Koolstop pads. Are they any better ? or ?
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:45:43 AM UTC-7 Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Salmon Koolstop pads stop well, but can be noisy, especially if they hit
>> the rim flat or slightly toed out. It is possible/probable that after 5
>> months the pads have worn enough to change the way they hit the rim, and
>> need to be adjusted a bit to be slightly toe-in.
>>
>> Julia Westerhout
>> Bloomington, IL
>>
>> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 5:50:35 AM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> The brakes are cantilever with salmon pads. I assume that the are
>>> properly mounted. The squawking began after about five months of riding. In
>>> the beginning there was no noise.
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:50:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes.
 salmon pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes
 and different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise
 no matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in
 particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing
 brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid
 mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate
 more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its
 unique front end geometry.

 My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re
 beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical
 v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism
 is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a
 bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the
 basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice
 accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they
 can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as
 well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa
 just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show
 bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the
 farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of
 stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week.
 It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature.
 The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it
 that way.

 On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout 
 wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly
> slightly toed in?
>
> Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking
> is due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or 
> setup.
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL
>
> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now,
>> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded 
>> the
>> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t
>> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking
>> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>>
>>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both
>>> purchased used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both 
>>> sets
>>> is how easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables 
>>> making
>>> wheel removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay
>>> full retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I 
>>> don't
>>> regret my purchases at all.
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>> San Diego
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Paul brakes are worth it.

 If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them
 for close to what you paid!

 On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:

> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn
> bike.  They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking
> loads, as opposed to braking 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Kim H.]

I would enjoy hearing the feedback from those folks, who have used Yokozuna 
brake pads verses Salmon Koolstop pads. Are they any better ? or ?

Kim Hetzel.

On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:45:43 AM UTC-7 Julian Westerhout wrote:

> Bill, 
>
> Salmon Koolstop pads stop well, but can be noisy, especially if they hit 
> the rim flat or slightly toed out. It is possible/probable that after 5 
> months the pads have worn enough to change the way they hit the rim, and 
> need to be adjusted a bit to be slightly toe-in. 
>
> Julia Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>
> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 5:50:35 AM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> The brakes are cantilever with salmon pads. I assume that the are 
>> properly mounted. The squawking began after about five months of riding. In 
>> the beginning there was no noise.
>>
>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:50:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes. 
>>> salmon pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes 
>>> and different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise 
>>> no matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in 
>>> particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing 
>>> brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid 
>>> mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate 
>>> more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its 
>>> unique front end geometry.
>>>
>>> My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re 
>>> beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical 
>>> v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism 
>>> is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a 
>>> bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the 
>>> basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice 
>>> accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they 
>>> can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as 
>>> well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa 
>>> just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show 
>>> bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the 
>>> farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of 
>>> stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week. 
>>> It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature. 
>>> The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it 
>>> that way.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Bill, 

 Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly 
 slightly toed in? 

 Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is 
 due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup. 

 Julian Westerhout
 Bloomington, IL 

 On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded 
> the 
> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
>> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
>> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
>> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
>> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't 
>> regret 
>> my purchases at all.
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>>
>>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>>> close to what you paid!
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>>
 PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
 They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, 
 as 
 opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.


 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:

> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Schairer]

Bill, double check to make sure the mounting bolts haven't loosened.

Bill S
San Diego

On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 3:50:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> The brakes are cantilever with salmon pads. I assume that the are properly 
> mounted. The squawking began after about five months of riding. In the 
> beginning there was no noise.
>
> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:50:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes. 
>> salmon pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes 
>> and different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise 
>> no matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in 
>> particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing 
>> brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid 
>> mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate 
>> more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its 
>> unique front end geometry.
>>
>> My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re 
>> beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical 
>> v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism 
>> is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a 
>> bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the 
>> basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice 
>> accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they 
>> can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as 
>> well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa 
>> just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show 
>> bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the 
>> farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of 
>> stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week. 
>> It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature. 
>> The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it 
>> that way.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, 
>>>
>>> Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly 
>>> slightly toed in? 
>>>
>>> Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is 
>>> due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup. 
>>>
>>> Julian Westerhout
>>> Bloomington, IL 
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
 however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
 pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
 think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
 for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill

 On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't 
> regret 
> my purchases at all.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>
>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>> close to what you paid!
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>
>>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, 
>>> as 
>>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>>
 "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent 
 me back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in 
 hilly and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with 
 moderate loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way 
 faster 
 than ol' fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to 
 squeeze 
 and modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still 
 stop 
 just fine w'cable brakes.  

 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Julian Westerhout]

Bill, 

Salmon Koolstop pads stop well, but can be noisy, especially if they hit 
the rim flat or slightly toed out. It is possible/probable that after 5 
months the pads have worn enough to change the way they hit the rim, and 
need to be adjusted a bit to be slightly toe-in. 

Julia Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 5:50:35 AM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:

> The brakes are cantilever with salmon pads. I assume that the are properly 
> mounted. The squawking began after about five months of riding. In the 
> beginning there was no noise.
>
> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:50:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes. 
>> salmon pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes 
>> and different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise 
>> no matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in 
>> particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing 
>> brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid 
>> mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate 
>> more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its 
>> unique front end geometry.
>>
>> My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re 
>> beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical 
>> v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism 
>> is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a 
>> bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the 
>> basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice 
>> accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they 
>> can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as 
>> well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa 
>> just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show 
>> bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the 
>> farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of 
>> stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week. 
>> It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature. 
>> The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it 
>> that way.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, 
>>>
>>> Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly 
>>> slightly toed in? 
>>>
>>> Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is 
>>> due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup. 
>>>
>>> Julian Westerhout
>>> Bloomington, IL 
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
 however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
 pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
 think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
 for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill

 On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't 
> regret 
> my purchases at all.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>
>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>> close to what you paid!
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>
>>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, 
>>> as 
>>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>>
 "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent 
 me back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in 
 hilly and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with 
 moderate loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way 
 faster 
 than ol' fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Fulford]

The brakes are cantilever with salmon pads. I assume that the are properly 
mounted. The squawking began after about five months of riding. In the 
beginning there was no noise.

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 10:50:09 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes. salmon 
> pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes and 
> different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise no 
> matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in 
> particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing 
> brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid 
> mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate 
> more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its 
> unique front end geometry.
>
> My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re 
> beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical 
> v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism 
> is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a 
> bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the 
> basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice 
> accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they 
> can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as 
> well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa 
> just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show 
> bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the 
> farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of 
> stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week. 
> It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature. 
> The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it 
> that way.
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout  
> wrote:
>
>> Bill, 
>>
>> Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly 
>> slightly toed in? 
>>
>> Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is 
>> due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup. 
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, IL 
>>
>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
>>> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
>>> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
>>> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
>>> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>>>
 I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
 used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
 easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
 removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
 retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't 
 regret 
 my purchases at all.

 Bill S
 San Diego

 On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>
> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
> close to what you paid!
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>
>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>
>>> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
>>> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in 
>>> hilly 
>>> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with 
>>> moderate 
>>> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
>>> ol' 
>>> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
>>> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
>>> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  
 wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Ted W]

That noise is typical of a he salmon pads that ship on Paul brakes. salmon
pads stop really well but I’ve had several pair on different bikes and
different brake styles and after a bit they all started to make noise no
matter how I adjusted them. I’ve also found that Paul Motolites in
particular do not like having racks mounted to them. This made any existing
brake noise multiples worse I assume due to the two sides being more rigid
mounted together allowing for different resonance to occur and generate
more noise. This was particularly apparent on my Gus I assume due to its
unique front end geometry.

My opinion on the Paul Motolites is mixed. On the one hand, they’re
beautiful and the quick release mechanism is nice compared to typical
v-brakes with the noodle holding it all together. The adjustment mechanism
is also a work of arm and does make adjusting for different when sizes a
bit nicer. However, I’m not sure they’re worth the money purely on the
basis of function. To me they’re like a designer handbag. They make a nice
accessory when paired with other nice accessories and a good outfit they
can be stunning. But at the end of the day, a $5 handbag holds stuff as
well as a $300 handbag. My $30 Shimano Alivio v-brakes stop my Appaloosa
just as well as the $300 Motolites on my Gus. But my Gus is my pretty show
bike that I take out on the town on a Sunny Saturday to get things at the
farmer’s market. My Appaloosa is my daily driver. I lock it up outside of
stores and restaurants and ride it, rain or shine, to work 5 days a week.
It’s still a nice bike but the parts on it are more utilitarian in nature.
The frame is the flashiest piece of kit on the whole bike and I like it
that way.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 10:24 PM Julian Westerhout 
wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly
> slightly toed in?
>
> Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is
> due to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup.
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL
>
> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now,
>> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the
>> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t
>> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking
>> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>>
>>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased
>>> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how
>>> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel
>>> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full
>>> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret
>>> my purchases at all.
>>>
>>> Bill S
>>> San Diego
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Paul brakes are worth it.

 If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for
 close to what you paid!

 On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:

> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.
> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as
> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>
>> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me
>> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly
>> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate
>> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
>> ol'
>> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and
>> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop
>> just fine w'cable brakes.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, good to know.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock
 on new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on 
 the
 road but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable 
 Pauls.
 Your results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.

 Joe Bernard

 On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore
 wrote:

> Philip: Can you (or can anyone 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Julian Westerhout]

Bill, 

Which brakes are they?  Which pads are you using? Are they properly 
slightly toed in? 

Photos would help in making a diagnosis -- but I doubt the squawking is due 
to the brakes themselves -- more likely to be pad type and/or setup. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 7:54:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
> however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
> pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
> think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
> for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased 
>> used off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how 
>> easy it is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel 
>> removal and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full 
>> retail they were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret 
>> my purchases at all.
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>>
>>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>>> close to what you paid!
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>>
 PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
 They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
 opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.


 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:

> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
> ol' 
> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, good to know.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock 
>>> on new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on 
>>> the 
>>> road but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable 
>>> Pauls. 
>>> Your results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
 Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
 just 
 talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
 would 
 be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

 The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
 philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
> woot!). 
>

> Philip 
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Fulford]

I bought Paul brakes for my Atlantis and initially loved them. Now, 
however, they squawk like a stuck goose. I’ve cleaned the rims, sanded the 
pads but with no success. They were installed by a bike shop so I don’t 
think that’s the problem. It’s embarrassing to ride at times. I’m looking 
for suggestions to ease the noise. Thanks in advance. Bill

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:58:13 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased used 
> off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how easy it 
> is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel removal 
> and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full retail they 
> were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret my 
> purchases at all.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>>
>> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for 
>> close to what you paid!
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>>
>>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
>>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>>
 "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
 back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
 and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
 loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than 
 ol' 
 fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
 modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
 just fine w'cable brakes.  

 Jay

 Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, good to know.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
>> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
>> road 
>> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
>> Your 
>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>>> just 
>>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>>> would 
>>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>>
>>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
 around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
 woot!). 

>>>
 Philip 
 Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
>  
> 
> .
>


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Schairer]

I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased used 
off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how easy it 
is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel removal 
and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full retail they 
were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret my 
purchases at all.

Bill S
San Diego

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>
> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for close 
> to what you paid!
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>
>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>
>>> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
>>> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
>>> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
>>> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than ol' 
>>> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
>>> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
>>> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
> road 
> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
> Your 
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>> just 
>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>> would 
>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>>> woot!). 
>>>
>>
>>> Philip 
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>>
>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
  
 
 .

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/990dca63-599e-4141-b8a4-d825f08260f0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Eric Marth]

Paul brakes are worth it. 

If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for close 
to what you paid!

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:

> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>
>> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me back 
>> to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly and 
>> mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate loads 
>> (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than ol' 
>> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
>> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
>> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, good to know.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
 new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
 road 
 but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your 
 results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 

 Joe Bernard 

 On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just 
> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would 
> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>
> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>> woot!). 
>>
>
>> Philip 
>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>
> -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0b8900ec-fb76-49ed-b888-f6ebf8d22fa0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jamie Kaplan]

Are Paul’s worth it?? Yes. But, maybe not. Depends. As Pam Murray reminded me, our bikes should be a source of joy and satisfaction. So if spending incrementally more dollars is a stresser, then maybe don’t go there. By contrast, we’ve all seen basic set ups on Riv’s site. We all know that they work splendidly. At the end of the day, our ‘curated’ bicycles are a balancing act between our personal choices and our constraints. We all have constraints. I own one ‘forever’ Clem L. Works for me b/c my range of riding needs is relatively narrow. I spent many pandemic months researching a bike of choice. The Riv Clem L checked all my boxes. I made sure I had the money set aside. I made certain to obtain spousal dispensation. Once I found it I pounced sight unseen. Yikes. I then had nine months from down payment to pick up to research and procure parts and components. I wanted to do it once and do it right. Today, I have zero regrets. Even my wife loves the bike and how it has expanded my universe. I love the look and ride of my Riv. For me it wasn’t my mid-life crisis European convertible, it’s was just…a bike. Enjoy the process and the outcome. Cause if we’re when we’re riding our Rivs life is inherently good. Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 7, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Brian McDermott  wrote:I've had the Racers, Mini-Motos, and the touring cantis. The Racers worked well, but I prefer a canti or V brake. The Mini-Motos are fantastic and provide excellent power and modulation, and the added bonus of working with road levers without a problem. Now for the touring cantis, I bought a set used on ebay, but when installing them on my Sam, I noticed I was missing a pivot. So, I installed one pair on the front, and a pair of Tektro TR720s on the rear while I waited for a new pivot. I ran this setup for many months, and I've gotta say, the difference between the Pauls and the Tektros was minimal. Of course, the Pauls were on the front so that is a factor, but...pound for pound, I think as far as cantis go, the Pauls aren't really worth it; aside from looks and maybe slightly improved modulation, being MUSA is the biggest selling point. On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 11:01:17 PM UTC-5 rus...@gmail.com wrote:In my opinion, Paul brakes are definitely worth it, and they’re MUSA.I installed a pair of Mini Motos on my Surly Cross x Check with Campagnolo Ergo levers, which is the a great go most anywhere setup. The Mini Motos worked well enough with the Campy levers, but they worked perfectly with Travel Agents installed. I love how they function, with great modulation and no squeal. I’d recommend them to anyone wanting to use an Ergo system.Russell DuncanLeverett, MA USAOn Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:14:39 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:Eliot: I did use one of these long, long ago, and looks ideal, elegant (= both not-bulky-looking and minimum-means-to-desired-end).I see that one -- NIP -- sold for $8 with $5 shipping back in October. But I fear that the beefy threaded fender mount boss in the underside of the crown will interfere with this device; must take a look. And next, must learn if it's safe to drill holes in forward and rearward fore/aft crown walls; the fork was built for cantis and fenders, thus with no holes.On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 7:08 PM Eliot Balogh  wrote:Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:Thanks, good to know.On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. Joe Bernard On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson  wrote:... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!). Philip Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com.
-- ---Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nuevo 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jay Riley]

"the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me back
to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly and
mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate loads
(35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than ol'
fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and
modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop
just fine w'cable brakes.

Jay

Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199


On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, good to know.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on new
>> bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road but
>> not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your
>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the
>>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just
>>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would
>>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>>
>>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike
 around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!).

>>>
 Philip
 Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)

>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAMamPd7cNGTicpNSViezT%3DVzoXwVYKNfAT%2BVC7_v6mCg1m2%2BOg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jay Riley]

PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  They're
cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as opposed to
braking loads on a road or touring bike.

Jay

Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199


On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:

> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me back
> to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly and
> mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate loads
> (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than ol'
> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and
> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop
> just fine w'cable brakes.
>
> Jay
>
> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, good to know.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on
>>> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road
>>> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your
>>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the
 Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just
 talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would
 be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

 The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson 
 wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike
> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!).
>

> Philip
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)
>
 --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAMamPd5wkkX3Cu%3D8tJjLHT%2B0rTztEyHMOHcxL0D8SZLDDRHUtg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Brian McDermott]

I've had the Racers, Mini-Motos, and the touring cantis. The Racers worked 
well, but I prefer a canti or V brake. The Mini-Motos are fantastic and 
provide excellent power and modulation, and the added bonus of working with 
road levers without a problem. 

Now for the touring cantis, I bought a set used on ebay, but when 
installing them on my Sam, I noticed I was missing a pivot. So, I installed 
one pair on the front, and a pair of Tektro TR720s on the rear while I 
waited for a new pivot. I ran this setup for many months, and I've gotta 
say, the difference between the Pauls and the Tektros was minimal. Of 
course, the Pauls were on the front so that is a factor, but...pound for 
pound, I think as far as cantis go, the Pauls aren't really worth it; aside 
from looks and maybe slightly improved modulation, being MUSA is the 
biggest selling point. 

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 11:01:17 PM UTC-5 rus...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 24D7252C-D7C0-4D27-A5EF-3EF791511B96.jpeg][image: 
> A5D48AC9-A2DC-4B09-9CD1-D39C927720E0.jpeg]
>
> In my opinion, Paul brakes are definitely worth it, and they’re MUSA.
>
> I installed a pair of Mini Motos on my Surly Cross x Check with Campagnolo 
> Ergo levers, which is the a great go most anywhere setup. The Mini Motos 
> worked well enough with the Campy levers, but they worked perfectly with 
> Travel Agents installed. I love how they function, with great modulation 
> and no squeal. I’d recommend them to anyone wanting to use an Ergo system.
>
> Russell Duncan
> Leverett, MA USA
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:14:39 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Eliot: I did use one of these long, long ago, and looks ideal, elegant (= 
>> both not-bulky-looking and minimum-means-to-desired-end).
>>
>> I see that one -- NIP -- sold for $8 with $5 shipping back in October. 
>>
>> But I fear that the beefy threaded fender mount boss in the underside of 
>> the crown will interfere with this device; must take a look. And next, must 
>> learn if it's safe to drill holes in forward and rearward fore/aft crown 
>> walls; the fork was built for cantis and fenders, thus with no holes.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 7:08 PM Eliot Balogh  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
> road 
> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
> Your 
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>> just 
>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>> would 
>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>>> woot!). 
>>>
>>
>>> Philip 
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>>
>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
  
 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[esoterica etc]

> On Jan 5, 2023, at 21:38, J G  wrote:
> 
> Setup is the most important thing with brakes and good compassionless housing.

This is true- the less sympathy your housing feels, the better it will be able 
to do its job. 

~Mark
Raleigh, NC

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6902670E-5D81-49F9-B78A-71219246560D%40gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

Paul brakes work as well as any others of similar style.
Are they worth the money? Depends on you I guess.
To me Paul brakes are works of art and absolutely worth the money.
Was having this exact convo at a group ride last week when someone pointed
out my Steamroller to someone else and was talking about the brake setup.

My orange quickbeam has Paul Touring on the rear, Tektro on the front( will
get replaced in time with Paul Nero-Retro. Paul Canti Levers. One moon unit
and one Jubilee black Heart straddle cable carrier
My 2017 Surly Steamroller is setup with a single Racer on the front, and
Canti Lever w/ Funky Monkey hanger and a Jubilee black Heart straddle cable
carrier.

--ben in KC


On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:38 PM J G  wrote:

> The Paul Motolites do also have the best quick release mechanism of the
> bunch.
>
> The Paul brake that stands out the most to me is the Racer and Racer M.
> Even better in post mount.  That is the kind of brake you build a bike
> around.
>
> I run the gamut of Pauls and like them all just fine, but I am also ok
> with DXR, BB7s etc. when I want to keep costs in check.  Setup is the most
> important thing with brakes and good compassionless housing.
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:26:26 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I would not agree that the only difference between most well-functioning
>> v-brakes and Paul Motolites is the name. On my Riv Custom that started with
>> Shimano DXR brakes the Pauls are notably nicer to modulate. Are they worth
>> the money? That's a different question I answered for myself, they do work
>> better.
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:23:02 PM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>>
>>> For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the
>>> level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys
>>> you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from
>>> maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one
>>> set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I
>>> still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.
>>> Not going to spend $500 on them, though.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.



 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, good to know.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on
>> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
>> road
>> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
>> Your
>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the
>>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>>> just
>>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>>> would
>>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>>
>>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike
 around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
 woot!).

>>>
 Philip
 Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)

>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
 To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Ryan]

I had Riv build my mixte with Racers with the post mounts brazed on to the 
seat stays...but I cheaped out and used the very nice (and reasonably 
priced) Dia-Compe SS6 levers, which are elegant, work well, and are an 
outlier example of those  things that look good and work well but aren't 
eye-wateringly expensive. 

Another high-quality low-cost thing I got from Riv in the early 2000's and 
wished I'd ordered several were those beautiful Suntour XC9000 front hubs 
for like...$20.00. Some of you long-time Riv fans may remember those hubs. 
I had a local wheelbuilder friend of mine lace it to an Araya RM20 26" 
front wheel for my X0-1 and had to settle for a Shimano 105 for the rear 
wheel - no XC9000 rear hub, unfortunately. Damn!

The rest of the bike was mostly equipped as appropriate for a custom 
Rivendell. It was ordered a couple of years before I retired and as a 
senior software developer , I was quite well-paid and felt I deserved it. 
Bikes , to me are worth splashing out on. A lot of the fun I had with my 
custom Rivs was curating the parts.



On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:38:25 PM UTC-6 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Paul Motolites do also have the best quick release mechanism of the 
> bunch.
>
> The Paul brake that stands out the most to me is the Racer and Racer M. 
>  Even better in post mount.  That is the kind of brake you build a bike 
> around.  
>
> I run the gamut of Pauls and like them all just fine, but I am also ok 
> with DXR, BB7s etc. when I want to keep costs in check.  Setup is the most 
> important thing with brakes and good compassionless housing.
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:26:26 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I would not agree that the only difference between most well-functioning 
>> v-brakes and Paul Motolites is the name. On my Riv Custom that started with 
>> Shimano DXR brakes the Pauls are notably nicer to modulate. Are they worth 
>> the money? That's a different question I answered for myself, they do work 
>> better. 
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:23:02 PM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>>
>>> For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the 
>>> level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys 
>>> you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from 
>>> maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one 
>>> set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I 
>>> still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.  
>>> Not going to spend $500 on them, though.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.



 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, good to know.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
>> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
>> road 
>> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
>> Your 
>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>>> just 
>>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>>> would 
>>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>>
>>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
 around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
 woot!). 

>>>
 Philip 
 Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -- 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J G]

The Paul Motolites do also have the best quick release mechanism of the 
bunch.

The Paul brake that stands out the most to me is the Racer and Racer M. 
 Even better in post mount.  That is the kind of brake you build a bike 
around.  

I run the gamut of Pauls and like them all just fine, but I am also ok with 
DXR, BB7s etc. when I want to keep costs in check.  Setup is the most 
important thing with brakes and good compassionless housing.
On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:26:26 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I would not agree that the only difference between most well-functioning 
> v-brakes and Paul Motolites is the name. On my Riv Custom that started with 
> Shimano DXR brakes the Pauls are notably nicer to modulate. Are they worth 
> the money? That's a different question I answered for myself, they do work 
> better. 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:23:02 PM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:
>
>> For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the 
>> level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys 
>> you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from 
>> maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one 
>> set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I 
>> still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.  
>> Not going to spend $500 on them, though.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
> road 
> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
> Your 
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>> just 
>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>> would 
>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>>> woot!). 
>>>
>>
>>> Philip 
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>>
>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
  
 
 .

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bf8a8722-2088-4acf-9f01-b9c2069ba37an%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

I would not agree that the only difference between most well-functioning 
v-brakes and Paul Motolites is the name. On my Riv Custom that started with 
Shimano DXR brakes the Pauls are notably nicer to modulate. Are they worth 
the money? That's a different question I answered for myself, they do work 
better. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 6:23:02 PM UTC-8 Will Boericke wrote:

> For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the 
> level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys 
> you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from 
> maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one 
> set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I 
> still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.  
> Not going to spend $500 on them, though.
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, good to know.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
 new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
 road 
 but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your 
 results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 

 Joe Bernard 

 On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just 
> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would 
> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>
> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>> woot!). 
>>
>
>> Philip 
>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>
> -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d54c06b-25fe-4c11-a4f6-70ece5aa3443n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Will Boericke]

For me, Paul brakes are not worth the retail price.  Good V-brakes (the 
level above department store) are universally well-functioning.  Paul buys 
you the name on the brake arm and probably some more freedom from 
maintenance.  Now, I think it's important to point out that I've owned one 
set of mini-motos.  I found them finicky.  TRP mini-Vs were better.  Will I 
still probably buy a set of Paul's if they're a good used deal?  Probably.  
Not going to spend $500 on them, though.


On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 9:08:23 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, good to know.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
>>> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road 
>>> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your 
>>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
 Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just 
 talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would 
 be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

 The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson  
 wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
> woot!). 
>

> Philip 
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ceebf6b6-edd0-41bb-8ad8-a56e58cfa1een%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Eliot Balogh]

Patrick, can you use a Suntour power hanger ? I loved mine.



On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 5:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, good to know.
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on new
>> bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road but
>> not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your
>> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the
>>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just
>>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would
>>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>>
>>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike
 around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!).

>>>
 Philip
 Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)

>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAALGE1VGN2stG0YqChULdEbJr6f6JKcah1iqoipzLr2DpPe4cg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, good to know.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on new
> bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road but
> not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the Klampers
>> perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just talking to
>> my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would be as
>> powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around,
>>> but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!).
>>>
>>
>>> Philip
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvUg9TvC1mzhcQMKq%3Dk-caNOQaQpph7khyFt9gwFNjMjw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on new 
bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the road but 
not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. Your 
results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 

Joe Bernard 

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the Klampers 
> perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just talking to 
> my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would be as 
> powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>
> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around, 
>> but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!). 
>>
>
>> Philip 
>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d8f39d12-2c9a-41d1-8a4b-d18763a33202n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Eric Marth]

Huston reminds me that while Paul sells replacement parts for all their 
breaks the o-ring prices are criminal. Criminal I say! They're $2/each from 
Paul. At my local hardware store, Earl's Tru Value, they're 10¢ each. 

A box of 100 #012 o-rings from McMaster-Carr is $3.26. That's 3¢ per ring 
(and maybe even where Paul's ordering 'em from). Now I have beef with Paul *and 
*Earl. 

Forgive me if I've ranted about this before. I understand they have to make 
it worth their while and if they're paying someone to find, pack and ship 
the o-rings they can't do it at 10¢ apiece. But check out your local 
hardware store for those 012 and 013 o-rings. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 7:46:22 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the Klampers 
> perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just talking to 
> my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would be as 
> powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>
> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around, 
>> but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!). 
>>
>
>> Philip 
>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/89091087-bde1-4543-96ba-0c6c59c7db35n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the Klampers
perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was just talking to
my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers would be as
powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.

The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?

On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around,
> but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!).
>
> Philip
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?)
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguGoQMXCfTfoMiPotk0-Xz58K2J7o4sZ4U%2B4mn--qwtyw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Patrick Moore]

I use Paul cantis. I don't know if they're worth the premium over every
other cantilever brake -- the IRDs on my 2010 Sam set up by Riv staff
worked better than the Paul's on my 2020 Matthews and IMO looked as good;
but I certainly didn't mind paying the premium to get decent braking, good
looks, even more the easy adjustment, and above all the freedom from the
squeal and chatter that I experienced with the Tektro 720s that they
replaced on the 2020 Matthews, which has mile-long steerer and head tubes.
I daresay I could have drilled a hole in the fork crown and mounted a
housing stop there to stop the squeal and chatter, and I may eventually do
that, but I don't regret paying for the Paul's, again for the other
qualities listed. This Matthews is a "nice bike."

And Huston's experience with service and parts just adds yet another reason
for the Paul's.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 1:16 PM Huston  wrote:

> I was recently reminded of this thread when completing an overhaul of my
> Paul touring cantis.  After years of four-season commuting, the arms and
> spring adjuster nuts still look great; however, the springs (corrosion) and
> one o-ring (split) needed to be replaced.  Plus, it was time for some fresh
> straddle cables.  All of these tiny bits were readily available, both
> directly from Paul and from retailers.  Furthermore, upon submission of a
> question via the Paul website, I received a prompt response from the man
> himself.  IMO, these are just a couple of more reasons why these brakes are
> indeed "worth the money."
>
> Huston
> Lexington, KY
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/349bde9b-db0e-4eaa-afca-26f3498dd0fcn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvtsLen-t81aPrZ1WN%3D8%3DZgNcOy05vkk_-%3DvBN7nQWxhA%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

It really DID just stop raining, right after I used my trusty Motolites 
with Paul Levers on wet rims a few times. You're going to love those 
Klampers, I'm not much of a disc guy but they're amazing. Better that 
Motos? Nah, but just as good if you're building a disc bike. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:35:57 PM UTC-8 Philip Williamson wrote:

> I just read through the thread with interest - I didn't realize it was 
> from Sept 2022 until the last post!
>
> I've used Paul cantis, a Neo-retro /Touring setup, and Minimotos. 
> Minimotos were the only brake that worked on two bikes to eliminate judder. 
> Absolutely worth it for that alone. I sold one pair when I parted out the 
> Pinarello cross bike, and the other set will probably stay on the Frances 
> forever. 
> I've never used the Paul levers, but now I'd consider it if I ever build a 
> flat-bar bike again. Paul drop bar levers would be AMAZING, in both long 
> and short pull. 
> I have Moon Units on the Quickbeam, since the special green anodizing 
> looks good with the bike (it clashed with the Frances green). I mimicked 
> the straddle height from the CX-50 stock setup, and they work great.  
>
> I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around, but 
> went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!). 
>
> Philip 
> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 12:16:18 PM UTC-8 Huston wrote:
>
>> I was recently reminded of this thread when completing an overhaul of my 
>> Paul touring cantis.  After years of four-season commuting, the arms and 
>> spring adjuster nuts still look great; however, the springs (corrosion) and 
>> one o-ring (split) needed to be replaced.  Plus, it was time for some fresh 
>> straddle cables.  All of these tiny bits were readily available, both 
>> directly from Paul and from retailers.  Furthermore, upon submission of a 
>> question via the Paul website, I received a prompt response from the man 
>> himself.  IMO, these are just a couple of more reasons why these brakes are 
>> indeed "worth the money."
>>
>> Huston
>> Lexington, KY
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/171b7a71-c0b3-4553-a558-3f3063f11142n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Philip Williamson]

I just read through the thread with interest - I didn't realize it was from 
Sept 2022 until the last post!

I've used Paul cantis, a Neo-retro /Touring setup, and Minimotos. Minimotos 
were the only brake that worked on two bikes to eliminate judder. 
Absolutely worth it for that alone. I sold one pair when I parted out the 
Pinarello cross bike, and the other set will probably stay on the Frances 
forever. 
I've never used the Paul levers, but now I'd consider it if I ever build a 
flat-bar bike again. Paul drop bar levers would be AMAZING, in both long 
and short pull. 
I have Moon Units on the Quickbeam, since the special green anodizing looks 
good with the bike (it clashed with the Frances green). I mimicked the 
straddle height from the CX-50 stock setup, and they work great.  

I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike around, but 
went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, woot!). 

Philip 
Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 12:16:18 PM UTC-8 Huston wrote:

> I was recently reminded of this thread when completing an overhaul of my 
> Paul touring cantis.  After years of four-season commuting, the arms and 
> spring adjuster nuts still look great; however, the springs (corrosion) and 
> one o-ring (split) needed to be replaced.  Plus, it was time for some fresh 
> straddle cables.  All of these tiny bits were readily available, both 
> directly from Paul and from retailers.  Furthermore, upon submission of a 
> question via the Paul website, I received a prompt response from the man 
> himself.  IMO, these are just a couple of more reasons why these brakes are 
> indeed "worth the money."
>
> Huston
> Lexington, KY
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b11baacd-23ed-4216-a37b-5476855b1da9n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Huston]

I was recently reminded of this thread when completing an overhaul of my 
Paul touring cantis.  After years of four-season commuting, the arms and 
spring adjuster nuts still look great; however, the springs (corrosion) and 
one o-ring (split) needed to be replaced.  Plus, it was time for some fresh 
straddle cables.  All of these tiny bits were readily available, both 
directly from Paul and from retailers.  Furthermore, upon submission of a 
question via the Paul website, I received a prompt response from the man 
himself.  IMO, these are just a couple of more reasons why these brakes are 
indeed "worth the money."

Huston
Lexington, KY

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/349bde9b-db0e-4eaa-afca-26f3498dd0fcn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Kim Hetzel]

I remember very clearly back in the 70's before the craze of wanting a 
touring bicycle to travel across the United States,  owning a racing bike 
with full Campagnolo Nuevo Record componetry on it was a huge fade. 

When I bought my 1973 Cilo Sprintx bicycle, it had very thing Campagnolo 
Nuevo Record on it, except for the brakes, of which were Weimann 610 
centerpulls and levers. I wanted a pair of those Campy sidepulls. However, 
they were priced at $125.00 +.  They were out of my price range. Over time, 
it got put on the back burner.  Until, one day, I walked into this 
particular bicycle shop to buy something for my bicycle. I looked down in 
the showcase. There was a NEW full set of Campagnolo Nuevo Record breaks 
and levers in the factory box gleaming up a me with a price tag of $75.00 ! 
! !  I could not walk out of there without buying them. I was so happy, 
very happy. 

I assembled them onto my Cilo, of which I turned into a sports touring 
bike. Now, I was in style. Confidence reigned through my head and body 
riding downhill with some mighty fine sidepull brakes/levers in the day.  I 
still have them to this today with the Scott Mathauser pad inserts. 
Beautiful shiny and silver brakes.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 10:33:32 AM UTC-7 John Phillips wrote:

> I have used Paul Racers, Touring & Neo-Retro Cantilevers and Moto-lites. I 
> like them all. I found them to be easy to set up & easy to adjust, and 
> that's without much experience at all, just watched some Youtube videos and 
> read the information & advice given & shared here by much more experienced 
> and wizened mechanics.
>
> I love the look of Paul components and have never regretted buying any of 
> their brakes, brake levers, skewers or stems.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/869f9355-0c42-428e-aa03-3adbf9cc2b1bn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have used Paul Racers, Touring & Neo-Retro Cantilevers and Moto-lites. I 
like them all. I found them to be easy to set up & easy to adjust, and 
that's without much experience at all, just watched some Youtube videos and 
read the information & advice given & shared here by much more experienced 
and wizened mechanics.

I love the look of Paul components and have never regretted buying any of 
their brakes, brake levers, skewers or stems.

Just my $0.02,

John

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/54c56d83-4ce2-46c6-883e-5a3019f14badn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[greenteadrinkers]

IMO Paul brake levers are 100% worth the cost. On a bike, the brake lever 
is a high human touchpoint. For me the user experience with the PL is so 
high, no matter the build, if I can afford it, I would always spec PL's.

Scott

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 7:22:28 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> They are to me but that asks me to explore non-linear scalars to defend. 
> Spreadsheets might produce answers that differ from mine, I tend to value 
> the non-linear observations about things also.
>
> I like bike things, I enjoy riding them, the interactions with and company 
> of others who do so as well. I had the opportunity to meet and talk to Paul 
> Price at the Philly Bike Expo a few years ago. I complimented him on the 
> center mount Racers I bought for my Rambouillet and he asked if I had a 
> picture on my phone. Not that Shimano or (fill in a component or brake 
> manufacturer of your choice) don't care about you, but back in my shop days 
> I seldom had the opportunity to speak to the person behind a product like 
> Paul (or Grant Peterson) at trade show. 
>
> My sample is this set of center mount Racers I put on my Rambouillet to 
> replace the groupless Shimano calipers that were the only option when I 
> bought the Ram as a full bike from Rivendell. My years of riding this bike 
> brought to focus several issues with the original brakes that the Paul 
> Racers more than adequately resolved. Since then I've had comments from 
> riders about the bike and the Racer brakes. I gained fender clearance, tire 
> clearance and brake performance.  
>
> "Cool Shimano dual pivot calipers!" 
> -No one.
>
> What I like about bikes, bike parts, bike people and my experience riding 
> supports my favorable impression of Paul Component Engineering brake 
> options. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/52cac700-4fb5-4387-8486-5fee433efd97n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[ascpgh]

They are to me but that asks me to explore non-linear scalars to defend. 
Spreadsheets might produce answers that differ from mine, I tend to value 
the non-linear observations about things also.

I like bike things, I enjoy riding them, the interactions with and company 
of others who do so as well. I had the opportunity to meet and talk to Paul 
Price at the Philly Bike Expo a few years ago. I complimented him on the 
center mount Racers I bought for my Rambouillet and he asked if I had a 
picture on my phone. Not that Shimano or (fill in a component or brake 
manufacturer of your choice) don't care about you, but back in my shop days 
I seldom had the opportunity to speak to the person behind a product like 
Paul (or Grant Peterson) at trade show. 

My sample is this set of center mount Racers I put on my Rambouillet to 
replace the groupless Shimano calipers that were the only option when I 
bought the Ram as a full bike from Rivendell. My years of riding this bike 
brought to focus several issues with the original brakes that the Paul 
Racers more than adequately resolved. Since then I've had comments from 
riders about the bike and the Racer brakes. I gained fender clearance, tire 
clearance and brake performance.  

"Cool Shimano dual pivot calipers!" 
-No one.

What I like about bikes, bike parts, bike people and my experience riding 
supports my favorable impression of Paul Component Engineering brake 
options. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ce38b556-de25-4153-a2e1-f2dab1c2c649n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J.C. Bryant]

As someone who likes to fiddle, I find the adjustability (read: fiddliness) 
enjoyable. I like supporting small businesses, especially in this industry 
and despite the bling factor, I do think Paul Components has some great 
ideas. Designing all their brakes to run the same V-brake pads is nice, as 
I'd only have to stock one type of pad for all my bikes. No return springs 
in levers = a simpler mechanism, one less thing to break down, and one 
fewer variable in adjusting brake feel or "snappiness". Once you get a hang 
of their coil spring setup, you're good to go. Cool colors are fun. I could 
also add readily-available replacement parts/fully-serviceable components 
as another plus, but a full "rebuild kit" for one brake is often times more 
expensive than a full set of new off-the-shelf V brakes or Cantis, but it's 
at least good to know you'll always be able to repair them, even if it 
costs a bit. I've got no doubt that my Paul brakes will surely outlast me, 
barring availability of replacement bits here and there.

This part is more aimed at the constantly-fiddling tinkerers like myself, 
but there's also resale-factor. You can get nearly a 100% return on your 
investment on the secondhand market, especially if you pick them up used. 
You can always pick up boutique parts to try them out and hock them for 
little-to-no-loss if they're not quite what you're looking for. That 
doesn't matter to everyone, but it's a plus for me.

The brakes and levers are great. The thumbies are cool if that's your cup 
of tea. Never tried the seatposts or stems, but I am happy with regular 
forged posts and quill stems and I usually look to Nitto for that sort of 
thing. At the end of the day, boutique components are only "worth it" if 
you like them and feel good about your purchase. Cheaper brakes will stop 
your bike just fine, just like a cheaper bike will still get you from point 
A to point B, but many folks willing to shell out for a Riv also don't mind 
paying the "Paul tax" to support a small brand and get a cool, shiny piece 
of gear to add to their bike. I say give it a go and if you ultimately 
can't cope with the expense, there's surely someone here who will happily 
take them off your hands.

-J.C.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:06:03 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Tire clearance is a thing, too, if you're looking at v-brakes. My 
> Motolites are quite tall and clear a 650B x 47 "gravel" tire with room left 
> for fenders. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:00:19 PM UTC-7 Ryan M. wrote:
>
>> I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
>> sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 
>>
>> I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul 
>> brakes at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. 
>> They work even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I 
>> think the combination really makes the system work quite well and the 
>> levers are just strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, 
>> Klampers, and the canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does 
>> take a little time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are 
>> great. 
>>
>> Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
>> brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
>> are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
>> industry best disconnection system. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, 
>>> have them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
>>> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>>>
>>> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
>>> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
>>> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
>>> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
>>> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>>>
>>> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
>>> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>>>
>>> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
>>> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
>>> those I do regret it. 
>>>
>>> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
>>> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>>>
>>> This video  is about the 
>>> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
>>> quite interesting. 
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>>
 Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in 
 your value calculation for a particular set of 

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Dan Leahul]

I'm going on my ninth year of owning my Paul Racers. I have no doubts that
they'll last me my cycling lifetime. They are clever, overbuilt, beautiful
brakes. Using these in their long reach context, they offer many times over
more braking power and braking feel than anything else out there (r559, Dia
Compe, etc). A few hundred dollars for decades of blissful braking doesn't
seem like that bad of a deal, unless you're working with a extreme budget.

Seems odd to have to convince a Rivendell owner the value of Paul
Components! The two companies seem very similar in terms of offerings and
ethos.

I say buy them and never look back.

Dan in Canada 

On Sun., Sep. 25, 2022, 5:51 p.m. Joe Bernard,  wrote:

> Yes he should buy what he wants, my answer is my experience and how I feel
> about it. It's also based on the budget I was working with a couple years
> ago, I'm not currently operating with Paul money! 螺
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:20:51 PM UTC-7 Minh wrote:
>
>> you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group,
>> as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside
>> $$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are
>> more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the
>> difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the
>> levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them
>> and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.
>>
>> there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels
>> right to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>>
>>> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and
>>> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes,
>>> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are
>>> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that
>>> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti
>>> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind)
>>> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the
>>> same way.
>>> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to
>>> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam
>>> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
>>> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool
>>> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
>>> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone
>>> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really
>>> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with
 love levers. Are they worth it?
>>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9d0cc1ca-0043-4dd7-a5ad-d416edccedd1n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANpnGsiniHxkCR8VU-rdX%2BqUB2PGQS_N6oohRvmt5OG%3DULfLtw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Jay Lonner]

I like Paul brakes for all the reasons stated above. “Worth” is hard to pin 
down, but I like the Gene Berg quote from upthread. (OT: it’s been a while 
since I’ve heard that name!) I’ve tried different types and prefer the 
Motolites over the cantilever versions. Once the Racers are back in production 
I’ll be giving those a try as well, as an upgrade for my wife’s Cheviot.

Bill (or anybody else, really) I’ve got two sets of gently used Paul 
cantilevers for sale, one set of of Neo-Retros and one set of Tourings, along 
with one set of Canti levers. All of it is in anodized silver. I’d be happy to 
pass this stuff along for half off retail, with shipping on me.

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 5:29 PM, Bill Fulford  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses. I certainly believe that Paul 
> brakes are excellent and worth the price. I guess that I was surprised that 
> the price wasn’t for a full brake set. But that is me being out of touch with 
> high quality components. Most likely I’m going to cancel the order and save 
> Paul brakes for my dream bike, whatever that may be. Thank you for your 
> responses.
> 
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:10:24 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>> Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
>> reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
>> use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
>> pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. The 
>> guys @Riv will understand that.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/47b13e18-66ca-412d-9486-98f7608d0406n%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1A4E9345-4EFF-46C8-8740-80E60951F6D1%40gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Fulford]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses. I certainly believe that Paul 
brakes are excellent and worth the price. I guess that I was surprised that 
the price wasn’t for a full brake set. But that is me being out of touch 
with high quality components. Most likely I’m going to cancel the order and 
save Paul brakes for my dream bike, whatever that may be. Thank you for 
your responses.

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 8:10:24 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
> reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
> use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
> pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. 
> The guys @Riv will understand that.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/47b13e18-66ca-412d-9486-98f7608d0406n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Garth]

Bill, Since you asked, no , they're not worth it. I could give you my 
reasons, but they would be no less a rationalization of why I don't buy or 
use them as those that do. So you're right back to where you are, with a 
pending order for what you thought was for a complete set but only half. 
The guys @Riv will understand that.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b80c4879-c7d9-49aa-83b5-184dfc5ea425n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes he should buy what he wants, my answer is my experience and how I feel 
about it. It's also based on the budget I was working with a couple years 
ago, I'm not currently operating with Paul money! 螺

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:20:51 PM UTC-7 Minh wrote:

> you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group, 
> as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside 
> $$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are 
> more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the 
> difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the 
> levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them 
> and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.  
>
> there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels right 
> to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>
>> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
>> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
>> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
>> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
>> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
>> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
>> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
>> same way. 
>> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to 
>> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam 
>> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
>> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool 
>> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
>> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
>> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
>> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9d0cc1ca-0043-4dd7-a5ad-d416edccedd1n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Minh]

you're responses are going to be a little skewed by asking on this group, 
as most of us have decided that 'worth it' are based on other things beside 
$$ value.   from a functional standpoint you can get other brakes that are 
more affordable and function nearly the same.   if you want to split the 
difference consider forgoing the brakes and treating yourself to the 
levers, they will bring you a little bit of joy everytime you touch them 
and remind you about the person that gave you the gift.  

there's no wrong decision here, its really personal so do what feels right 
to you regardless of what others may say, welcome and enjoy!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:08:52 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:

> They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
> supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
> and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
> absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
> they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
> brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
> intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
> same way. 
> And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to 
> (within reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam 
> Hillborne no problem (except removing the fenders.)
> I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener tool 
> https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
> Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
> wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
> helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.
>
> Mike M
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ab196476-d584-4adf-9eac-d0efe68b2bd3n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[velomann]

They are absolutely worth the money in terms of quality, function, and 
supporting a great company. I own and use every type of brake Paul makes, 
and lots of others and the Motolites combined with the Paul levers are 
absolutely the best rim brakes I have ever used. And yes I disagree that 
they are difficult to set up, especially compared to many older canti 
brakes out there. The two-nut system all Paul brakes use is (to my mind) 
intuitive and once you get it, all Paul rim brakes set up basically the 
same way. 
And the Motolites are one of the only rim brakes that allows you to (within 
reason) swap wheel sizes. I can run 700c wheels on my 650b Sam Hillborne no 
problem (except removing the fenders.)
I do recommend purchasing the Paul Bottle Opener 
tool https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/service-parts/tools/bottle-opener/
Yes you can adjust Paul brake tension with a 15mm box wrench or cone 
wrench, but the angle and width that matches the Paul brake nut is really 
helpful and it's a nice tool to keep in you on-bike kit.

Mike M

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/750deed4-c87a-44c8-99ad-2335885a7f13n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

Tire clearance is a thing, too, if you're looking at v-brakes. My Motolites 
are quite tall and clear a 650B x 47 "gravel" tire with room left for 
fenders. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:00:19 PM UTC-7 Ryan M. wrote:

> I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
> sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 
>
> I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul brakes 
> at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. They work 
> even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I think the 
> combination really makes the system work quite well and the levers are just 
> strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, Klampers, and the 
> canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does take a little 
> time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are great. 
>
> Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
> brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
> are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
> industry best disconnection system. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, 
>> have them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
>> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>>
>> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
>> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
>> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
>> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
>> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>>
>> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
>> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>>
>> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
>> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
>> those I do regret it. 
>>
>> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
>> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>>
>> This video  is about the 
>> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
>> quite interesting. 
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
>>> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>>>
>>> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back 
>>> in production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
>>> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>>>
>>> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
>>> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
>>> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
>>> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
>>> really subjective. 
>>>
>>> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying 
>>> serious money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk 
>>> heavily at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for 
>>> example, $xxx on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that 
>>> works “98 to 100 percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? 
>>> Well, I got a fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper 
>>> brakes. 
>>>
>>> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
>>> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
>>> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
>>> amusing. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
 Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
 superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
 arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
 the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
 shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
 and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a 
 chunk 
 of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad 
 I 
 did it. 

 Joe Bernard 

 On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 
> 2007 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to 
> read 
> later that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I 

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Ryan M.]

I really do think they are worth the money and when/if you ever decide to 
sell them you can recoup a lot of the cost back. 

I've had the fortunate experience of using most of the current Paul brakes 
at one time or another and I do think they all work really well. They work 
even better when you pair them with a set of Paul levers too. I think the 
combination really makes the system work quite well and the levers are just 
strong and smooth. I'm a huge fan of the moto lites, Klampers, and the 
canti brakes, either the touring or retro models. It does take a little 
time to set up those cantis, but once dialed in they are great. 

Worth it for you...well, that depends on the money. A set of Shimano xt v 
brakes and levers just isn't that much money and they will work fine. Pauls 
are just better and IMHO, easier to setup...and the motolites have an 
industry best disconnection system. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:34:47 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, have 
> them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
> Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 
>
> I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
> weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
> expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
> that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
> levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 
>
> I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
> springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 
>
> In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
> touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
> those I do regret it. 
>
> For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
> about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 
>
> This video  is about the 
> coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
> quite interesting. 
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
>> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>>
>> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
>> production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
>> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>>
>> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
>> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
>> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
>> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
>> really subjective. 
>>
>> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
>> money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
>> at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
>> on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
>> percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
>> fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 
>>
>> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
>> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
>> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
>> amusing. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
>>> Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
>>> superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
>>> arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
>>> the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
>>> shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
>>> and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk 
>>> of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I 
>>> did it. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read 
 later 
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. 
 So 
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
 love levers. Are they worth it?
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To 

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Eric Marth]

Only speaking for myself, here: I love my Paul cantis and moto lites, have 
them currently installed on two Rivs, had them on another bike and, as 
Laing mentioned, pulled them off before I sold it. 

I love that there is a small machine shop in Northern California making 
weird bike parts and I am happy to support them. They are certainly 
expensive. A lot of people will tell you they're downright ugly, I won't go 
that far. I do like the look of the cantis and the "canti lever" brake 
levers. Dig their barrel adjusters, too. 

I believe you can purchase replacement parts for all of their brakes, 
springs, spring adjusters, pivots, o-rings, etc. 

In the past I've sold a set of their thumb shifter mounts and one set of 
touring cantilevers and while I don't have an immediate need or use for 
those I do regret it. 

For more about Paul Comp check out their YouTube channel, lots of vids 
about their shop, installation how-to videos and other funky stuff! 

This video  is about the 
coolant recycling system that Paul installed in the shop which I found 
quite interesting. 
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 3:56:00 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
> value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 
>
> I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
> production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
> justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 
>
> In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
> bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
> Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
> sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
> really subjective. 
>
> I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
> money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
> at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
> on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
> percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
> fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 
>
> Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
> figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
> but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
> amusing. 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my 
>> Rivendell Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably 
>> superior to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the 
>> arms is miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, 
>> the very slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and 
>> shifters, I love the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), 
>> and they're made 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk 
>> of cash but they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I 
>> did it. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>>
>>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0a59d01-6281-4d0f-905f-40f6b6868192n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[J J]

Echoing Bill and Joe, it depends on which criteria are important in your 
value calculation for a particular set of circumstances. 

I went to great lengths to find (out of production but soon to be back in 
production) Paul brakes for one of our bikes. It felt appropriate and 
justifiable, even “necessary”. And they’re great. No regrets. 

In contrast, I was going to install a new set of Paul cantis on another 
bike but instead, I sold them, telling myself that my relatively cheap 
Shimano cantis were just fine, and that the Pauls weren’t worth it. So I 
sold the Paul cantis at a slight loss to lighten my parts hoard. It’s 
really subjective. 

I chuckle at myself when I consider that I have no problem paying serious 
money for Rivendell frames (they’re worth it!) yet I sometimes balk heavily 
at the cost of components. After all, why should I spend, for example, $xxx 
on a fancy rear derailer when I can buy a $25 Altus that works “98 to 100 
percent” as well as the fancier ones, according to Grant? Well, I got a 
fancy RD for the same bike on which I retained the cheaper brakes. 

Ultimately I don’t have a consistent algorithm or a set decision tree to 
figure these choices out. The Pauls were more than worth it for one Riv, 
but for another Riv they didn’t seem to be. Kinda whacky of me, and 
amusing. 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> "Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my Rivendell 
> Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably superior 
> to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the arms is 
> miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, the very 
> slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and shifters, I love 
> the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), and they're made 
> 95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk of cash but 
> they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I did it. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:
>
>> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
>> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
>> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
>> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
>> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
>> love levers. Are they worth it?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e09328f4-2d5b-4a27-a812-6cb3331ec23fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[lconley]

Years ago I used to buy what some people considered overpriced VW parts 
from Gene Berg. His motto was "Buy the best and cry once". I basically 
subscribe to that point of view, but I more or less have the money to do 
it. That is why I buy so many Rivendells. Made in USA is a plus with me. I 
generally do not like the look of the non-disc Paul brakes, but I do have a 
quite a few parts from Paul including hubs, Klamper disc brakes, V-brakes, 
cantilever brakes, moon units, brake levers, thumbies, and several sets of 
skewers. The quality is undeniable. The brake levers are magnificent and 
even good looking. I have the V-brakes on the Hubbuhubbuh and the 
cantilevers on the Bombadil touring bike, basically the two heaviest bikes 
that I own. Bulletproof braking has is own beauty and I think that they are 
worth it. The discs are on my VO Neutrino. If you want new, high quality, 
internal cam skewers, Paul is basically the only game in town.

If you like them and can afford it, I say buy the Paul components. They are 
the type of components that you remove from a bike when you sell it to use 
on your next build.

Laing

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/240497e1-84d6-4932-9dc2-f03b71ae92bbn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Joe Bernard]

"Worth it" is of course subjective but I have these brakes on my Rivendell 
Custom and they're worth it to me. The feel and power is notably superior 
to the Shimano v-brakes I started with, the qr function on the arms is 
miles better, the adjusting springs are very easy to fiddle with, the very 
slim clamp on the levers stays out of the way of hands and shifters, I love 
the slightly industrial look (some folks aren't into it), and they're made 
95 miles from where I'm typing right now. Yes it's a chunk of cash but 
they're on a very nice bike I ride almost every day. I'm glad I did it. 

Joe Bernard 

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f4f288e0-30b3-493a-835b-3401200dd6b5n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Lindsay]

There is no objective answer to that question.  For lots of people, the 
answer is unequivocally yes.  For many others, the answer is no.  

Many who love them love the adjust-ability.  Many who dislike them call 
them "fiddly", since they are so adjustable, one has to be a pretty good 
wrench to dial them in.  Even though I say that one has to be a pretty good 
wrench, I bet a dollar somebody will respond "I'm not a good wrench and I 
was able to set up my Paul brakes perfectly".  

Lots of people are delighted to pay a premium for something MUSA, and/or 
made in California.  Lots of people are willing to pay a premium out of 
gratitude to the company for the vast amount of free entertainment they put 
out on Instagram.  

It already sounds like you don't want to pay $600 for brakes, so for you as 
an individual, they probably are not "worth it".  Similarly a $1200 Joe 
Bell paint job probably wouldn't be "worth it".  The moment you decide you 
want to buy them, then they are worth it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 10:52:35 AM UTC-7 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/90622d59-74c5-4792-8b60-7afe95319cc7n%40googlegroups.com.