Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Brett Callahan]

PSA:  Looks like those longer reach dia compe are in stock at Soma Fab.  

 They're 
not cheap.

My experience with 559 vs. Paul centerpulls on a caliper brake Hillborne 
model was that the CP's stopped a little better than 559's  in the dry, and 
'felt' better, probably because less flex. However, braking in the dry from 
both was satisfactory with Kool Stop pads.  In the wet, (actively raining, 
hard) neither brake stopped worth a damn. 
Caveats: I'm a big guy at 250+ and really well set up cantis don't stop me 
in the wet all that well either.  For wet weather braking, a bike with 
discs or to a lesser extent V-brakes are the way to go, I think. 

Brett

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 7:15:23 AM UTC-7 Patch T wrote:

> Hey Patrick - this diagram with measurements is from the Grand Bois 
> website.  https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/gb_ch_m.html
> Hope it's helpful!
>
> I highly recommend going through Jitensha Studio. I live in NYC and they 
> made this transaction super easy, the parts got to me quickly, shipping was 
> better than it would have been from Japan. And I like that when I want 
> parts from the likes of Peter White or Hiroshi-san, I have to call and 
> speak with a human :)
>
> [image: Screen Shot 2022-07-19 at 10.00.00 AM.png]
>
> Patch
> On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 2:12:00 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I'm glad you mentioned these, as I'd not heard of them. They look nice, 
>> and if they stop as you say, then they are very good deals at half the 
>> price -- or less -- of Paul's. 
>>
>> The website does not say; how long a reach do they have? And: Will the 
>> wider ones fit 42s and fenders? If so, I almost wish I'd had my 2020 
>> Matthews built for these instead of cantilevers (also Paul's).
>>
>> I must get a pair of those lovely non-aero levers; besides, it would be 
>> an opportunity to finally by a HP 20 pump chuck. 
>>
>> Curious: Besides calling Jitensha, can you order the DC levers online 
>> anywhere? A quick Google (v,t) did not help. 
>>
>> Also, unrelated except by the Jitensha site: Has anyone used these 650 
>> latex tubes? 58 grams??? Those are lighter than the Schwalbe XL 559 X 42s I 
>> use on the Matthews, which are a burdensome 90 grams and cost a plebian $15 
>> each.
>>
>> 650 X 36-42B, latex super lightweight, made by Soyo, 34mm valve stem, 58g 
>>  $35.00 ea
>>
>> How neat would it be to have tubes that weigh the less than my extralight 
>> 571/559 X 23 mm (60 gr advertised, 70 grams actual) and cost more than some 
>> tires I've used?
>>
>> And I see that they still offer their wool-mix knickers and socks; 
>> wonderful. Since Rick Risemberg's store is long gone, it's good to know 
>> that really nice cycling knickers and socks are still available -- the Riv, 
>> Swrv, etc knickers I've used simply don't fit as well as the old fashioned 
>> type like these that are cut like regular street pants in waist and hips.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 6:27 PM Patch T  wrote:
>>
>>> I've used a set of these Grand Bois "Chouette" long reach centerpulls 
>>> for a conversion, using a backing plate:
>>> https://www.jitensha.com/eng/brakes.html
>>>
>>> Decent value, great looks, maybe finicky to set up, but fantastic 
>>> braking power. I love my MiniMotos and love these, too. They have very 
>>> different feels, but are both very effective.
>>>
>>> Patch in NYC
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:37:19 AM UTC-4 Pierre wrote:
>>>
 Hi bunch - 

 Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
 (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).

 Looking for an upgrade but looks like long reach Paul racer are no 
 longer produced. What are my options lately? Anyone tried Rene Herse 
 center 
 pulls?

 (Even toying with idea of sending frame to Bilenky to add canti studs 
 so I can run mini-motos but maybe a bit extreme...).

 Thanks.

 Pierre

>>> -- 
>>>
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b8688386-958d-4e43-a8a7-6f8f6328f52cn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Patrick Moore]

I'm glad you mentioned these, as I'd not heard of them. They look nice, and
if they stop as you say, then they are very good deals at half the price --
or less -- of Paul's.

The website does not say; how long a reach do they have? And: Will the
wider ones fit 42s and fenders? If so, I almost wish I'd had my 2020
Matthews built for these instead of cantilevers (also Paul's).

I must get a pair of those lovely non-aero levers; besides, it would be an
opportunity to finally by a HP 20 pump chuck.

Curious: Besides calling Jitensha, can you order the DC levers online
anywhere? A quick Google (v,t) did not help.

Also, unrelated except by the Jitensha site: Has anyone used these 650
latex tubes? 58 grams??? Those are lighter than the Schwalbe XL 559 X 42s I
use on the Matthews, which are a burdensome 90 grams and cost a plebian $15
each.

650 X 36-42B, latex super lightweight, made by Soyo, 34mm valve stem, 58g
 $35.00 ea

How neat would it be to have tubes that weigh the less than my extralight
571/559 X 23 mm (60 gr advertised, 70 grams actual) and cost more than some
tires I've used?

And I see that they still offer their wool-mix knickers and socks;
wonderful. Since Rick Risemberg's store is long gone, it's good to know
that really nice cycling knickers and socks are still available -- the Riv,
Swrv, etc knickers I've used simply don't fit as well as the old fashioned
type like these that are cut like regular street pants in waist and hips.



On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 6:27 PM Patch T  wrote:

> I've used a set of these Grand Bois "Chouette" long reach centerpulls for
> a conversion, using a backing plate:
> https://www.jitensha.com/eng/brakes.html
>
> Decent value, great looks, maybe finicky to set up, but fantastic braking
> power. I love my MiniMotos and love these, too. They have very different
> feels, but are both very effective.
>
> Patch in NYC
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:37:19 AM UTC-4 Pierre wrote:
>
>> Hi bunch -
>>
>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power
>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>>
>> Looking for an upgrade but looks like long reach Paul racer are no longer
>> produced. What are my options lately? Anyone tried Rene Herse center pulls?
>>
>> (Even toying with idea of sending frame to Bilenky to add canti studs so
>> I can run mini-motos but maybe a bit extreme...).
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Pierre
>>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b8688386-958d-4e43-a8a7-6f8f6328f52cn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[amillhench]

Has anyone used the Dia Compe BRS202? How does it compare to the R559? 

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

On Jul 13, 2022, at 10:12, Daniel MacPherson  wrote:


Thanks for the review. I remember seeing them a while back on the QBP website 
and thought to myself that I should snag the last two. I regret not doing that 
now. 

Sincerely, 

Daniel M
Tallahassee, FL 

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 9:46 PM esoterica etc  wrote:
> 
> Hey Daniel,
> 
> I have a set of Paul Racers with TRP RRL levers on my Soma San Marcos 
> (Riv-made and very similar to an AHH), and a set of the Tektro 559s with 
> Shimano 600 non-aero levers on my Schwinn World Voyageur set up as a double 
> single-speed bike. 
> 
> I've taken the Schwinn on roads where I've gotten right around 30 mph (~72 
> gear inches), as well as some singletrack (~49 gear inches), and the Tektros 
> slow and stop just fine for me. I am running 700c wheels on the Schwinn and 
> the brake pads are just about halfway down in the slots, so I do have a bit 
> more mechanical advantage than someone running 650b wheels with the pads at 
> the very bottom of the slots. 
> 
> Having said that, the Paul Racers are much better in my opinion. Even though 
> the Racers are almost maxed out at the bottom of the slots on the San Marcos 
> (650b wheels), they have much more power than the Tektros at mid-slot. The 
> Racers also have a solidity to them when engaging, and for me they're very 
> confidence-inspiring. I'm extremely happy with my Racers and would highly 
> recommend them (if you can find them). All the best,
> 
> ~Mark
> Raleigh, NC
> 
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 4:55 PM Daniel MacPherson  
> wrote:
>> 
>> Are the Paul Racer brakes better? I’m tempted to buy the latest Crust road 
>> bike in the near future but I don’t want to run 559s or Mafacs.
>> 
>> I know they’ve been discontinued but I’m sure over the next 6 months, a 
>> couple will pop-up on Ebay or the ibob community. 
>> 
>> Daniel M
>> Tallahassee Fl
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:23 PM Josiah Anderson  
>> wrote:
>>> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power. 
>>> They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so 
>>> much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike 
>>> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with 
>>> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the 
>>> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from 
>>> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went 
>>> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn 
>>> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't 
>>> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off 
>>> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so 
>>> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice, 
>>> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>>> 
>>> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
>>> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
>>> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
>>> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
>>> pattern.
>>> 
>>> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but 
>>> not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>>> 
>>> Josiah Anderson
>>> Missoula, MT 
>>> 
>>> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a 
>>> écrit :
 I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had 
 any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano 
 Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a 
 set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel 
 will skid. 
 
 http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
 
 - Jim
 
 On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? 
> What sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c 
> for a drop-bar bike. 
> 
> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
> Classic 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Corwin Zechar]

Those Shimano drop-bar levers are still available! Buy them at rivbike.com, 
amazon.com, ebay.com and several other places.

Regards,


Corwin

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:52:46 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had 
> any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano 
> Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a set 
> of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel will 
> skid. 
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>
> - Jim
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What 
>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a 
>> drop-bar bike. 
>>
>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>
>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work 
>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are 
>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful 
>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly, 
>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high 
>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the 
>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
>>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
>>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
>>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
>>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long 
>>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
>>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
>>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
>>> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull 
>>> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so 
>>> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are 
>>> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or 
>>> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>>>
>>> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except 
>>> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at 
>>> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original 
>>> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>>>
 I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on 
 them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be 
 rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look 
 odd 
 to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell 
 should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes. 


 Daniel M 

 Tallahassee Fl

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is 
> Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely 
> associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't 
> think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it 
> was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road 
> frame. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Daniel MacPherson]

Thanks for the review. I remember seeing them a while back on the QBP
website and thought to myself that I should snag the last two. I regret not
doing that now.

Sincerely,

Daniel M
Tallahassee, FL

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 9:46 PM esoterica etc 
wrote:

>
> Hey Daniel,
>
> I have a set of Paul Racers with TRP RRL levers on my Soma San Marcos
> (Riv-made and very similar to an AHH), and a set of the Tektro 559s with
> Shimano 600 non-aero levers on my Schwinn World Voyageur set up as a double
> single-speed bike.
>
> I've taken the Schwinn on roads where I've gotten right around 30 mph (~72
> gear inches), as well as some singletrack (~49 gear inches), and the
> Tektros slow and stop just fine for me. I am running 700c wheels on the
> Schwinn and the brake pads are just about halfway down in the slots, so I
> do have a bit more mechanical advantage than someone running 650b wheels
> with the pads at the very bottom of the slots.
>
> Having said that, the Paul Racers are much better in my opinion. Even
> though the Racers are almost maxed out at the bottom of the slots on the
> San Marcos (650b wheels), they have much more power than the Tektros
> at mid-slot. The Racers also have a solidity to them when engaging, and for
> me they're very confidence-inspiring. I'm extremely happy with my Racers
> and would highly recommend them (if you can find them). All the best,
>
> ~Mark
> Raleigh, NC
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 4:55 PM Daniel MacPherson 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Are the Paul Racer brakes better? I’m tempted to buy the latest Crust
>> road bike in the near future but I don’t want to run 559s or Mafacs.
>>
>> I know they’ve been discontinued but I’m sure over the next 6 months, a
>> couple will pop-up on Ebay or the ibob community.
>>
>> Daniel M
>> Tallahassee Fl
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:23 PM Josiah Anderson <
>> andersonjosi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping
>>> power. They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet,
>>> not so much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike
>>> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with
>>> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the
>>> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from
>>> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went
>>> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn
>>> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't
>>> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off
>>> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so
>>> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice,
>>> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>>>
>>> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s
>>> ride in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet
>>> and freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on
>>> the wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB
>>> but not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>>>
>>> Josiah Anderson
>>> Missoula, MT
>>>
>>> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a
>>> écrit :
>>>
 I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never
 had any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard
 Shimano Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued)
 on a set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the
 wheel will skid.

 http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html

 - Jim

 On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
> drop-bar bike.
>
> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>
> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
> appropriate 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Scott Marriott]

My dumb question is why not u-brakes with a backing plate.  (Fender 
clearance?)

https://www.porkchopbmx.com/dia-compe-br-990-boomerang-bmx-u-brake-adapter-pla.html
https://www.porkchopbmx.com/dia-compe-ad-990-fs-990-bmx-u-brake-bicyc-46160865.html

Really just curious to know if anyone has tried this.

Scott M
Chicago, IL (Hyde Park)
On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 4:25:04 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-5 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
>> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
>> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
>> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
>> pattern. 
>>
>
> Well, sample n=1, I did many a winter commute in Wisconsin with them and 
> never had a problem.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[esoterica etc]

Hey Daniel,

I have a set of Paul Racers with TRP RRL levers on my Soma San Marcos
(Riv-made and very similar to an AHH), and a set of the Tektro 559s with
Shimano 600 non-aero levers on my Schwinn World Voyageur set up as a double
single-speed bike.

I've taken the Schwinn on roads where I've gotten right around 30 mph (~72
gear inches), as well as some singletrack (~49 gear inches), and the
Tektros slow and stop just fine for me. I am running 700c wheels on the
Schwinn and the brake pads are just about halfway down in the slots, so I
do have a bit more mechanical advantage than someone running 650b wheels
with the pads at the very bottom of the slots.

Having said that, the Paul Racers are much better in my opinion. Even
though the Racers are almost maxed out at the bottom of the slots on the
San Marcos (650b wheels), they have much more power than the Tektros
at mid-slot. The Racers also have a solidity to them when engaging, and for
me they're very confidence-inspiring. I'm extremely happy with my Racers
and would highly recommend them (if you can find them). All the best,

~Mark
Raleigh, NC

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 4:55 PM Daniel MacPherson 
wrote:

>
> Are the Paul Racer brakes better? I’m tempted to buy the latest Crust road
> bike in the near future but I don’t want to run 559s or Mafacs.
>
> I know they’ve been discontinued but I’m sure over the next 6 months, a
> couple will pop-up on Ebay or the ibob community.
>
> Daniel M
> Tallahassee Fl
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:23 PM Josiah Anderson 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power.
>> They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so
>> much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike
>> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with
>> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the
>> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from
>> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went
>> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn
>> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't
>> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off
>> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so
>> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice,
>> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>>
>> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride
>> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and
>> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the
>> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this
>> pattern.
>>
>> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but
>> not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula, MT
>>
>> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never
>>> had any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard
>>> Shimano Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued)
>>> on a set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the
>>> wheel will skid.
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>>>
>>> - Jim
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
 delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
 sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
 drop-bar bike.

 To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
 effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
 prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
 to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
 reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
 high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
 brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
 Classic Lightweights UK websites.

 IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
 decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
 appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful
 second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly,
 even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high
 end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the
 same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.

 On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[David Person]

I have 559s (with salmon Yokozuna pads) on my Hillborne.  When I built up a 
second bike for wetter conditions I went with a Surly Disc Trucker with 
Yokozuna Ultimo hybrid disc brakes.  I have to say that the difference in 
braking feel and performance, even in dry conditions, is quite noticeable.  
I wasn't sure about disc brakes, but I'm a convert.  I do notice that rims 
with machined sidewalls (like Velocity Quill or Dyad rims) do improve the 
performance of the 559s vs non-machined like Velo Orange Voyager rims.  I'm 
using the same brake lever on both bikes, what Riv used to sell as the 
Tektro Mtn Lever (FL540).

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 2:25:04 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-5 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
>> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
>> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
>> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
>> pattern. 
>>
>
> Well, sample n=1, I did many a winter commute in Wisconsin with them and 
> never had a problem.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-5 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
> pattern. 
>

Well, sample n=1, I did many a winter commute in Wisconsin with them and 
never had a problem.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Daniel MacPherson]

Are the Paul Racer brakes better? I’m tempted to buy the latest Crust road
bike in the near future but I don’t want to run 559s or Mafacs.

I know they’ve been discontinued but I’m sure over the next 6 months, a
couple will pop-up on Ebay or the ibob community.

Daniel M
Tallahassee Fl


On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:23 PM Josiah Anderson 
wrote:

> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power.
> They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so
> much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike
> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with
> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the
> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from
> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went
> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn
> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't
> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off
> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so
> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice,
> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>
> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride
> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and
> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the
> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this
> pattern.
>
> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but
> not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT
>
> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a
> écrit :
>
>> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never
>> had any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard
>> Shimano Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued)
>> on a set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the
>> wheel will skid.
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
>>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
>>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
>>> drop-bar bike.
>>>
>>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
>>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
>>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
>>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
>>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
>>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
>>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
>>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>>
>>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
>>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
>>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful
>>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly,
>>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high
>>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the
>>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene
 Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended
 as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no
 braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain
 stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long
 chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4
 ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they
 dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they
 still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull
 braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so
 they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are
 located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or
 plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.

 I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls
 except in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have
 considered at times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount
 for the original Weinmann 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha. Yeah. Good point. 
Definitely SF Bay Area where things are reasonably dry and dusty.

I will say that have run that through some fairly wet brevets and did use 
those when I used the AHH for CX.
We had some muddy days - https://flic.kr/p/61iVgT


On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power. 
> They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so 
> much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike 
> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with 
> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the 
> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from 
> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went 
> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn 
> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't 
> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off 
> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so 
> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice, 
> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>
> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
> pattern.
>
> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but 
> not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT 
>
> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a 
> écrit :
>
>> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never 
>> had any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard 
>> Shimano Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) 
>> on a set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the 
>> wheel will skid. 
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
>>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What 
>>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a 
>>> drop-bar bike. 
>>>
>>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
>>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
>>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
>>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
>>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
>>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
>>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
>>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>>
>>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work 
>>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are 
>>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful 
>>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly, 
>>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high 
>>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the 
>>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
 Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
 as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
 braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
 stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The 
 long 
 chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
 ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
 dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
 still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull 
 braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so 
 they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are 
 located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or 
 plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.

 I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls 
 except in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have 
 considered at times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Josiah Anderson]

I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power.
They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so
much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike
experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with
salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the
bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from
Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went
through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn
and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't
seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off
wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so
they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice,
although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.

I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride
in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and
freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the
wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this
pattern.

(Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but
not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).

Josiah Anderson
Missoula, MT

Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a
écrit :

> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had
> any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano
> Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a set
> of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel will
> skid.
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>
> - Jim
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
>> drop-bar bike.
>>
>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>
>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful
>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly,
>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high
>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the
>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene
>>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended
>>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no
>>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain
>>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long
>>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4
>>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they
>>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they
>>> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull
>>> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so
>>> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are
>>> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or
>>> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>>>
>>> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except
>>> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at
>>> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original
>>> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>>>
 I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on
 them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be
 rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd
 to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell
 should develop some kick-ass 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Eric Daume]

To everyone who is satisfied with their long reach brakes, how do they work
*in the wet*? For instance, after riding across a short section of wet
grass, my long reach brakes literally can't stop my bike until the wheels
have rotated several times. I almost went into a cross street because of
this when I was trying to slow for a car at an intersection.

V brakes are so much better.

Eric

On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:52 PM Cyclofiend Jim  wrote:

> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had
> any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano
> Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a set
> of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel will
> skid.
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>
> - Jim
>
> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
>> drop-bar bike.
>>
>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>
>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful
>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly,
>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high
>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the
>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene
>>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended
>>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no
>>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain
>>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long
>>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4
>>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they
>>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they
>>> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull
>>> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so
>>> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are
>>> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or
>>> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>>>
>>> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except
>>> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at
>>> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original
>>> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>>>
 I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on
 them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be
 rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd
 to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell
 should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes.


 Daniel M

 Tallahassee Fl

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is
> Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely
> associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't
> think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it
> was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road
> frame.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had 
any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano 
Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a set 
of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel will 
skid. 

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html

- Jim

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What 
> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a 
> drop-bar bike. 
>
> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>
> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work 
> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are 
> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful 
> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly, 
> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high 
> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the 
> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>
>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long 
>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
>> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull 
>> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so 
>> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are 
>> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or 
>> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>>
>> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except 
>> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at 
>> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original 
>> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on 
>>> them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be 
>>> rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd 
>>> to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell 
>>> should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel M 
>>>
>>> Tallahassee Fl
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is 
 Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely 
 associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't 
 think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it 
 was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road 
 frame. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Patrick Moore]

Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be
delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What
sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a
drop-bar bike.

To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking
effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would
prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear
to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium
reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or
high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever
brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and
Classic Lightweights UK websites.

IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work
decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are
appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful
second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly,
even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high
end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the
same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:

> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene
> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended
> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no
> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain
> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long
> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4
> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they
> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they
> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull
> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so
> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are
> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or
> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>
> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except
> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at
> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original
> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>
> Laing
>
> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>
>> I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on
>> them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be
>> rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd
>> to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell
>> should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes.
>>
>>
>> Daniel M
>>
>> Tallahassee Fl
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is
>>> Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely
>>> associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't
>>> think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it
>>> was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road
>>> frame.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[David Hallerman]

Maybe kick-ass long reach caliper brakes are inherently unlikely because
the needed length alone - no matter what great brake pads are installed -
makes the brake arms less forceful than, say, medium reach brakes (like on
my Ram).

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 7:50 AM Daniel MacPherson 
wrote:

> I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on
> them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be
> rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd
> to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell
> should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes.
>
>
> Daniel M
>
> Tallahassee Fl
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is
>> Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely
>> associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't
>> think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it
>> was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road
>> frame.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:24:33 PM UTC-7 A. D. M. wrote:
>>
>>> I assume the folks at Rivendell find them adequate. I’ve used the 559s
>>> (with kook stop pads) on a fixed gear with a front brake only in the
>>> mountains and found it worked fine. I’ve actually done this on multiple
>>> 650b fixed conversions. I’ve even used DC750s in this setup.
>>>
>>> I’ve also used the Mafac Raids and thought they were fine (but finicky
>>> to set up sans squealing).
>>>
>>> I like v brakes the most for ease of setup and stopping power but many
>>> people find them “grabby.” I have yet to find a brake I find inadequate
>>> (with kool stop pads).
>>>
>>> I think brake performance expectations vary quite a bit.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Aaron in El Paso
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 18:52, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long
>>> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been
>>> something for mid-reach brakes.
>>>
>>> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there
>>> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are
>>> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like
 the VO.

 My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad
 (Tektro, DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims,
 there is no stopping power at all.

 I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes.

 Eric
 Plain City, OH
 where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current
 Trek,either

 On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:

> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv
> bikes require longer reach.
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso
>
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>
> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power;
> they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Forgot the link.
>>
>>
>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I
>>> would have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long 
>>> reach
>>> that is as strong.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:

> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping
> power (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other 
> bikes).
>

 I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot
 brakes. On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were 
 brilliant.
 On other bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had 
 something
 to do with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled
 experiment. The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I 
 also can
 suggest that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.

 That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which
 replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say
 they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to 
 get to
 max.

 I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[amillhench]

I’m with you, Joe. Still cracks me up when I see a bike with cantilevers and 
clearance for 700x28. That was a huge “road” tire at the time, and I remember 
Grant excitedly teasing the larger clearance caliper. 

I’m beginning to think there’s something wrong with my acceptance of Tektro 559 
performance. Should I be dissatisfied?!

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 


On Jul 9, 2022, at 20:31, Joe Bernard  wrote:

Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is Grant had 
them made back in the days when road bikes were closely associated with 
calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't think anything of it 
now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it was a tourer or mtb, you 
couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road frame. 

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:24:33 PM UTC-7 A. D. M. wrote:
> I assume the folks at Rivendell find them adequate. I’ve used the 559s (with 
> kook stop pads) on a fixed gear with a front brake only in the mountains and 
> found it worked fine. I’ve actually done this on multiple 650b fixed 
> conversions. I’ve even used DC750s in this setup. 
> 
> I’ve also used the Mafac Raids and thought they were fine (but finicky to set 
> up sans squealing).
> 
> I like v brakes the most for ease of setup and stopping power but many people 
> find them “grabby.” I have yet to find a brake I find inadequate (with kool 
> stop pads).
> 
> I think brake performance expectations vary quite a bit. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Aaron in El Paso 
> 
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 18:52, Johnny Alien  wrote:
> 
> 
> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long reach. 
> I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been something 
> for mid-reach brakes.
> 
> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there are 
> no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are so many 
> nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
> 
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the VO.
>> 
>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, DC 
>> centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is no 
>> stopping power at all.
>> 
>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>> 
>> Eric 
>> Plain City, OH
>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>> Trek,either
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
>>> require longer reach. 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; they 
>>> seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
 Forgot the link.
 
 https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
 
 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
> that is as strong.
> 
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
>>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>> 
>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. On 
>> my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On other 
>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do 
>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>> experiment. The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also 
>> can suggest that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>> 
>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get 
>> to max.
>> 
>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a 
>> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
>> and stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
>> power than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>> 
>> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with the 
>> long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>> 
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Eric Daume]

The CHG change is especially frustrating to me, because the frame checked
so many boxes for me with the canti brakes. But now it's a non-starter.

Eric

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:49 PM iamkeith  wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:16:35 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Johnny, I believe that's how the long-reach-caliper Cheviot became the
>> v-brake Platypus. V-brakes just work and I spec'd them on my light duty
>> mostly-pavement custom as well.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>>
>
> But this doesn't explain how the Charlie Gallop went from cantis to
> long-reach calipers before it even went into production.  Especially when
> you consider that the cable routing actually worked quite well with caliper
> brakes on the Cheviott, but is kind of awkward for cantis on the Platypus.
> (Or any mixte, really.)
>
> My own total guess is that part of the reason that Riv still builds bikes
> around these brakes is out of a a sense of "obligation."  As Eric noted,
> both the Tektros and the Paul's came into existence explicitly at the
> behest of Rivendell.  So it is appropriate that they continue the market if
> we/they want such options to continue to exist.
>
> I have the Tektros on a RB-1 650b conversion and must say I don't hate
> them.  But it's a fair-weather, occasional bike, so maybe I haven't tested
> them like some have.  If you really like everything else about the A Homer
> Hilsen and can imagine it being a lifetime bike, I think a canti conversion
> is a great way to go. Get it over and done and don't look back.  (Do check
> vertical clearance at the seatstay bridge while you're at it though.  If
> you don't also raise it and it subsequently becomes the thing that prevents
> you from fitting fenders over your desired tire, you'll kick yourself.)
>
> It's interesting to remember that originally, when it was called the
> Saluki, the AHH had the option of either brake type.  It was then described
> as a cross between a mountain bike and a road bike, so I guess that
> accommodated everyone, depending on which direction they leaned.
>
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 5:52:03 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long
>>> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been
>>> something for mid-reach brakes.
>>>
>>> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there
>>> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are
>>> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like
 the VO.

 My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad
 (Tektro, DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims,
 there is no stopping power at all.

 I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes.

 Eric
 Plain City, OH
 where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current
 Trek,either

 On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:

> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv
> bikes require longer reach.
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso
>
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>
> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power;
> they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Forgot the link.
>>
>>
>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I
>>> would have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long 
>>> reach
>>> that is as strong.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:

> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping
> power (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other 
> bikes).
>

 I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot
 brakes. On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were 
 brilliant.
 On other bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had 
 something
 to do with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled
 experiment. The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I 
 also can
 suggest that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.

 That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which
 replaced the Bleriot) are a very different 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[iamkeith]

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:16:35 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Johnny, I believe that's how the long-reach-caliper Cheviot became the 
> v-brake Platypus. V-brakes just work and I spec'd them on my light duty 
> mostly-pavement custom as well. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
>

But this doesn't explain how the Charlie Gallop went from cantis to 
long-reach calipers before it even went into production.  Especially when 
you consider that the cable routing actually worked quite well with caliper 
brakes on the Cheviott, but is kind of awkward for cantis on the Platypus.  
(Or any mixte, really.)  

My own total guess is that part of the reason that Riv still builds bikes 
around these brakes is out of a a sense of "obligation."  As Eric noted, 
both the Tektros and the Paul's came into existence explicitly at the 
behest of Rivendell.  So it is appropriate that they continue the market if 
we/they want such options to continue to exist.

I have the Tektros on a RB-1 650b conversion and must say I don't hate 
them.  But it's a fair-weather, occasional bike, so maybe I haven't tested 
them like some have.  If you really like everything else about the A Homer 
Hilsen and can imagine it being a lifetime bike, I think a canti conversion 
is a great way to go. Get it over and done and don't look back.  (Do check 
vertical clearance at the seatstay bridge while you're at it though.  If 
you don't also raise it and it subsequently becomes the thing that prevents 
you from fitting fenders over your desired tire, you'll kick yourself.)

It's interesting to remember that originally, when it was called the 
Saluki, the AHH had the option of either brake type.  It was then described 
as a cross between a mountain bike and a road bike, so I guess that 
accommodated everyone, depending on which direction they leaned.


On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 5:52:03 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
>> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
>> something for mid-reach brakes.
>>
>> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
>> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
>> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like 
>>> the VO.
>>>
>>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
>>> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
>>> no stopping power at all.
>>>
>>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>> Plain City, OH
>>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>>> Trek,either
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>>
 The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
 require longer reach. 

 Best,

 Aaron in El Paso 

 On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:

 Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
 they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Forgot the link.
>
>
> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
>> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
>> that 
>> is as strong.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>>
 Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping 
 power (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other 
 bikes).

>>>
>>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
>>> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
>>> other 
>>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to 
>>> do 
>>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>>> experiment. 
>>> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
>>> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>>
>>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to 
>>> get to 
>>> max.
>>>
>>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[lconley]

Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long 
chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull 
braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so 
they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are 
located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or 
plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.

I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except in 
pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at times 
having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original 
Weinmann centerpull brakes.

Laing

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:

> I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on 
> them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be 
> rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd 
> to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell 
> should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes. 
>
>
> Daniel M 
>
> Tallahassee Fl
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is 
>> Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely 
>> associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't 
>> think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it 
>> was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road 
>> frame. 
>>
>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Daniel MacPherson]

I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on 
them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be 
rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd 
to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell 
should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes. 


Daniel M 

Tallahassee Fl

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is Grant 
> had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely associated with 
> calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't think anything of 
> it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it was a tourer or mtb, 
> you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road frame. 
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:24:33 PM UTC-7 A. D. M. wrote:
>
>> I assume the folks at Rivendell find them adequate. I’ve used the 559s 
>> (with kook stop pads) on a fixed gear with a front brake only in the 
>> mountains and found it worked fine. I’ve actually done this on multiple 
>> 650b fixed conversions. I’ve even used DC750s in this setup. 
>>
>> I’ve also used the Mafac Raids and thought they were fine (but finicky to 
>> set up sans squealing).
>>
>> I like v brakes the most for ease of setup and stopping power but many 
>> people find them “grabby.” I have yet to find a brake I find inadequate 
>> (with kool stop pads).
>>
>> I think brake performance expectations vary quite a bit. 
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 18:52, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
>> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
>> something for mid-reach brakes.
>>
>> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
>> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
>> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like 
>>> the VO.
>>>
>>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
>>> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
>>> no stopping power at all.
>>>
>>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>> Plain City, OH
>>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>>> Trek,either
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>>
 The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
 require longer reach. 

 Best,

 Aaron in El Paso 

 On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:

 Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
 they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Forgot the link.
>
>
> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
>> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
>> that 
>> is as strong.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>>
 Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping 
 power (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other 
 bikes).

>>>
>>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
>>> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
>>> other 
>>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to 
>>> do 
>>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>>> experiment. 
>>> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
>>> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>>
>>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to 
>>> get to 
>>> max.
>>>
>>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and 
>>> a 
>>> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
>>> and 
>>> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
>>> power 
>>> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Joe Bernard]

Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is Grant 
had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely associated with 
calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't think anything of 
it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it was a tourer or mtb, 
you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road frame. 

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:24:33 PM UTC-7 A. D. M. wrote:

> I assume the folks at Rivendell find them adequate. I’ve used the 559s 
> (with kook stop pads) on a fixed gear with a front brake only in the 
> mountains and found it worked fine. I’ve actually done this on multiple 
> 650b fixed conversions. I’ve even used DC750s in this setup. 
>
> I’ve also used the Mafac Raids and thought they were fine (but finicky to 
> set up sans squealing).
>
> I like v brakes the most for ease of setup and stopping power but many 
> people find them “grabby.” I have yet to find a brake I find inadequate 
> (with kool stop pads).
>
> I think brake performance expectations vary quite a bit. 
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso 
>
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 18:52, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
> 
> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
> something for mid-reach brakes.
>
> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the 
>> VO.
>>
>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
>> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
>> no stopping power at all.
>>
>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>>
>> Eric 
>> Plain City, OH
>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>> Trek,either
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
>>> require longer reach. 
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>>>
>>> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
>>> they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Forgot the link.


 https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
> that 
> is as strong.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>
>>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
>>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>>>
>>
>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
>> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
>> other 
>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do 
>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>> experiment. 
>> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
>> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>
>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get 
>> to 
>> max.
>>
>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a 
>> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
>> and 
>> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
>> power 
>> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>>
>> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with 
>> the long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[amillhench]

I assume the folks at Rivendell find them adequate. I’ve used the 559s (with 
kook stop pads) on a fixed gear with a front brake only in the mountains and 
found it worked fine. I’ve actually done this on multiple 650b fixed 
conversions. I’ve even used DC750s in this setup. 

I’ve also used the Mafac Raids and thought they were fine (but finicky to set 
up sans squealing).

I like v brakes the most for ease of setup and stopping power but many people 
find them “grabby.” I have yet to find a brake I find inadequate (with kool 
stop pads).

I think brake performance expectations vary quite a bit. 

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

On Jul 9, 2022, at 18:52, Johnny Alien  wrote:


I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long reach. I 
can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been something for 
mid-reach brakes.

IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there are no 
great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are so many nice 
V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the VO.
> 
> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, DC 
> centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is no 
> stopping power at all.
> 
> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
> 
> Eric 
> Plain City, OH
> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
> Trek,either
> 
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
>> require longer reach. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Aaron in El Paso 
>> 
>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>> 
>> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; they 
>> seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 
>> 
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>> Forgot the link.
>>> 
>>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
 If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
 have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach that 
 is as strong.
 
 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
> 
> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. On 
> my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On other 
> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do 
> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
> experiment. The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also 
> can suggest that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
> 
> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get 
> to max.
> 
> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and they 
> proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a car 
> turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground and 
> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
> power than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
> 
> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with the 
> long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
> 
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/17a50cf7-9c0c-4570-8a65-b56a073637f2n%40googlegroups.com.
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/DF02B9CE-5260-4A6B-AC48-78B9E232EB86%40gmail.com.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Daniel MacPherson]

I once installed Tektro R559 brakes on a friends 27” to 700 road bike 
conversion. She mentions to this day that she could never stop adequately 
on that bike. Personally, I don’t understand bikes that need long reach 
calipers. Either go canti/v-brake or disc brakes for these type of bikes.


Daniel M 

Tallahassee Fl
On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:16:35 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Johnny, I believe that's how the long-reach-caliper Cheviot became the 
> v-brake Platypus. V-brakes just work and I spec'd them on my light duty 
> mostly-pavement custom as well. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 5:52:03 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
>> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
>> something for mid-reach brakes.
>>
>> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
>> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
>> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like 
>>> the VO.
>>>
>>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
>>> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
>>> no stopping power at all.
>>>
>>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>> Plain City, OH
>>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>>> Trek,either
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>>
 The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
 require longer reach. 

 Best,

 Aaron in El Paso 

 On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:

 Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
 they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Forgot the link.
>
>
> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
>> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
>> that 
>> is as strong.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>>
 Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping 
 power (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other 
 bikes).

>>>
>>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
>>> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
>>> other 
>>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to 
>>> do 
>>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>>> experiment. 
>>> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
>>> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>>
>>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to 
>>> get to 
>>> max.
>>>
>>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and 
>>> a 
>>> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
>>> and 
>>> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
>>> power 
>>> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>>>
>>> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with 
>>> the long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>>>
>>> Ted Durant
>>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>>
>> -- 
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 .

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Joe Bernard]

Johnny, I believe that's how the long-reach-caliper Cheviot became the 
v-brake Platypus. V-brakes just work and I spec'd them on my light duty 
mostly-pavement custom as well. 

Joe Bernard 

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 5:52:03 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
> reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
> something for mid-reach brakes.
>
> IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
> are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
> so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the 
>> VO.
>>
>> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
>> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
>> no stopping power at all.
>>
>> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>>
>> Eric 
>> Plain City, OH
>> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
>> Trek,either
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
>>> require longer reach. 
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>>>
>>> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
>>> they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 Forgot the link.


 https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach 
> that 
> is as strong.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>>
>>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
>>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>>>
>>
>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
>> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
>> other 
>> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do 
>> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
>> experiment. 
>> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
>> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>
>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get 
>> to 
>> max.
>>
>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
>> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a 
>> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
>> and 
>> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
>> power 
>> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>>
>> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with 
>> the long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/17a50cf7-9c0c-4570-8a65-b56a073637f2n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/DF02B9CE-5260-4A6B-AC48-78B9E232EB86%40gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Johnny Alien]

I didn't realize those brakes would not work. They were marked as long 
reach. I can't remember what I used them on before but it must have been 
something for mid-reach brakes.

IMO I am just baffled they keep making bikes for those brakes when there 
are no great options with great stopping power. Especially when there are 
so many nice V, mini-V and canti brakes out there.

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:28:16 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the 
> VO.
>
> My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, 
> DC centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is 
> no stopping power at all.
>
> I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes. 
>
> Eric 
> Plain City, OH
> where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current 
> Trek,either
>
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:
>
>> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes 
>> require longer reach. 
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Aaron in El Paso 
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>>
>> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; 
>> they seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> Forgot the link.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would 
 have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach that 
 is as strong.

 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
>
>> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
>> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>>
>
> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. 
> On my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On 
> other 
> bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do 
> with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled 
> experiment. 
> The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest 
> that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>
> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get 
> to 
> max.
>
> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and 
> they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a 
> car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground 
> and 
> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand 
> power 
> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>
> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with 
> the long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Eric Daume]

Yes, the AHH in question uses long reach calipers, not mid reach like the
VO.

My experience with long reach calipers has been universally bad (Tektro, DC
centerpulls). They're adequate in the dry, but with wet rims, there is no
stopping power at all.

I like a lot about the AHH, but I wouldn't get it due to the brakes.

Eric
Plain City, OH
where I'm not really satisfied with the mid reach Tektros on my current
Trek,either

On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 8:21 PM  wrote:

> The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes
> require longer reach.
>
> Best,
>
> Aaron in El Paso
>
> On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:
>
> Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; they
> seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls.
>
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Forgot the link.
>>
>>
>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would
>>> have. I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach that
>>> is as strong.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
 On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:

> Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power
> (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>

 I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. On
 my Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On other
 bikes I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do
 with the levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled experiment.
 The levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest
 that low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.

 That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which
 replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say
 they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get to
 max.

 I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and
 they proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a
 car turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground and
 stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand power
 than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot.

 My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with the
 long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.

 Ted Durant
 Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[amillhench]

The issue with the VO is they are only midreach (47-57). Many Riv bikes require 
longer reach. 

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

On Jul 9, 2022, at 17:55, Forrest  wrote:

Johnny, I had those brakes on a bike once. Very good stopping power; they 
seemed a little stouter than other sidepulls. 

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:43:41 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
> Forgot the link.
> 
> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
> 
> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 7:43:25 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>> If I had a bike that needed long sidepulls these are the ones I would have. 
>> I have used them before and I don't think there is a long reach that is as 
>> strong.
>> 
>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 6:58:27 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:37:19 AM UTC-5 Pierre wrote:
 Not super happy with the original Silver calipers raw stopping power 
 (admittedly quite spoiled by excellent hydro discs on other bikes).
>>> 
>>> I had mixed results with Silver/Tektro long-reach dual-pivot brakes. On my 
>>> Bleriot, with some dual-compound pads, they were brilliant. On other bikes 
>>> I had less brilliant experiences. I suspect it had something to do with the 
>>> levers I was using, but I never did a full, controlled experiment. The 
>>> levers on my Bleriot were older Aero Gran Compe. I also can suggest that 
>>> low-compression cable housing made a difference for me.
>>> 
>>> That said, the Yokozuna hybrid disc brakes on my newest bike (which 
>>> replaced the Bleriot) are a very different feel. I can't definitely say 
>>> they have more ultimate power, but it takes a lot less hand power to get to 
>>> max.
>>> 
>>> I have the Dia Compe 610-N calipers (not on braze-ons) on a bike and they 
>>> proved to be excellent stoppers when I was riding pretty fast and a car 
>>> turned left in front of me. Had the back wheel well off the ground and 
>>> stopped with about a foot to spare. Again, they need a bit more hand power 
>>> than the disc brakes to get to that point, but not a lot. 
>>> 
>>> My experience with cantilevers is considerably more mixed than with the 
>>> long-reach dual-pivots. Everywhere from sublime to frightening.
>>> 
>>> Ted Durant
>>> Milwaukee, WI USA

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