Re: [RE-wrenches] Wanted: AC centrifugal pump with soft start
Hello Dave, Do you know the stand by load for the Scala2 is when the pump is not pumping? I am curious what the brain and LED’s draw is. Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. > On Aug 11, 2017, at 1:14 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > <offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > > Quite happy here with the Grundfos Scala2. > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > > >> Happy Friday, Mechanix~ Sometimes I encounter "off the grid clients" who >> pressurize their household plumbing using an AC centrifugal pump. When the >> pump starts, the batteries pucker & the lights flicker. >> >> I'm on the quest for surface mounted pressurizing pumps that are fitted >> with AC soft start motors. Shouldn't this be an idea whose time has come? >> 1/3 hp or 1/2 hp should suffice, which could be handled at either 120vAC >> or >> 240vAC. The technology is already available in submersible pumps such as >> "Grundfos SQ"...now we just need it ported over to a surface mounted >> centrifugal. >> >> Thanks in advance for any leads that might help me find a supplier for >> this >> type of pump. The Wrench List is the Bomb~ >> >> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >> www.abrahamsolar.com >> >> Landline: 970-731-4675 >> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >> ᧠>> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging
Hi Tump, The battery charge rate is set to limit the overall charge of the batteries to less than .02C (20% overall AH’s) and while the AC1 is set to 60 amps Max input the AC2 is set to 12 Amps max per inverter. I’m not so much concerned with the 18 kw generator disconnecting, that can be dealt with, but the battery charger not regulating during the absorption cycle is really what worries me. Thanks much, Jason > On May 4, 2017, at 3:05 PM, Tump <t...@swnl.net> wrote: > > Its a pretty small battery bank what do you have the charge rate set to > 10%?100%? how large is your generator? I will usually start with a lower set > point, w 3 inverters charging at even 15% thats quite a bit of charging for > that BB. Make sure your AC input priority is set for AC2 and the Max current > is what your get can reasonably can handle. but if you are seeing brief > disconnects then these settings should be checked. Is there a load unknown to > you after the genre connects say additional loads on the generator feeding > somewhere else? > I would not swap the AC1 as the settings while are adjustable, there are some > differences in AC1 & AC2. > T >> On May 4, 2017, at 4:57 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> <offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote: >> >> On Schneider gear if you program the bat capacity to zero, the unit will >> run the full absorb time. If you had a 1000 AH bank programmed, at 2% of >> the 1000 ah or 20 amps into the battery the unit will go to float. I do >> not see this as your problem though! >> --Dave >> >>> Hello Kevin, >>> >>> I have actual battery capacity of 670 ahâs programmed in. Do you have >>> any theories on why 0 ahâs was helpful?? >>> >>> Swapping AC1 and AC2 is a really good idea. The only problem is since I >>> put in a micro SD card to the Combox, to do extended logging, I have not >>> been able to reproduce the problem that was easy to reproduce a month ago. >>> Only thing that has changed is the weather has warmed up. >>> >>> Schneider tech support has been helpful with suggestions, but they will >>> not pay to replace the battery bankâ¦.. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>>> On May 4, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Kevin Pegg <kp...@energyalternatives.ca >>>> <mailto:kp...@energyalternatives.ca>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is a good one. What battery capacity have you programmed into the >>>> XW system? We have had a few issues, though not this one specifically, >>>> but similar head-scratchers that were resolved by setting the battery >>>> capacity to 0 Ah. >>>> >>>> Have you tried swapping AC1 and AC2 and does the problem follow the >>>> source or the input? >>>> >>>> I recently had an odd issue with generator automation on AC1 on an XW+ >>>> and Schneider tech support was helpful in replicating the issue in their >>>> lab and issuing a fix. Might be worth engaging them if you haven't >>>> already. >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On >>>> Behalf Of Jason Lerner >>>> Sent: May-03-17 3:18 PM >>>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> >>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging >>>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> Iâm working on a system with 3 Xantrex XW 6048âs that has grid on >>>> AC1 and a 20 kw generator on AC2. When charging from grid it regulates >>>> during an absorption charge at 58.2 where it should. When charging from >>>> AC 2 - generator, the battery Voltage rises above 62 VDC, but not every >>>> single time. All the settings are correct, EQ is turned off, and if it >>>> accidentally got turned on is set at the same Voltage as the absorption >>>> setting. Customer has a brand new 33 kWh AGM battery bank, that I >>>> would rather not fry. This is a battery backup system with no PV. >>>> >>>> I have checked all the temperature sensors (they seem good) and tried >>>> charging with them plugged in, and with them unplugged and it doesnât >>>> seem to change the situation. >>>> >>>> Has anybody else se
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging
Hello Dave, No it is not three phase, but yes Bulk and Absorb are the same set points. Generator is staying connected and is qualified mostly, but will disconnect briefly under load surges…. Weird huh? Thanks Jason > On May 3, 2017, at 4:20 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > <offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > > Hmm. This does not sound good! Three phase power correct? You could try > connecting a different inverter to the generator. > Are you sure the generator is staying connected and outputting qualifying AC? > There are set-points for bulk and absorb and they are the same right? > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > >> Hello All, >> >> Iâm working on a system with 3 Xantrex XW 6048âs that has grid on AC1 >> and a 20 kw generator on AC2. When charging from grid it regulates during >> an absorption charge at 58.2 where it should. When charging from AC 2 - >> generator, the battery Voltage rises above 62 VDC, but not every single >> time. All the settings are correct, EQ is turned off, and if it >> accidentally got turned on is set at the same Voltage as the absorption >> setting. Customer has a brand new 33 kWh AGM battery bank, that I would >> rather not fry. This is a battery backup system with no PV. >> >> I have checked all the temperature sensors (they seem good) and tried >> charging with them plugged in, and with them unplugged and it doesnât >> seem to change the situation. >> >> Has anybody else seen this happen before? Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks very much, >> >> Jason Lerner >> Waldron Power and Light Co. >> (888) 927-2526 >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging
Hello Kevin, I have actual battery capacity of 670 ah’s programmed in. Do you have any theories on why 0 ah’s was helpful?? Swapping AC1 and AC2 is a really good idea. The only problem is since I put in a micro SD card to the Combox, to do extended logging, I have not been able to reproduce the problem that was easy to reproduce a month ago. Only thing that has changed is the weather has warmed up. Schneider tech support has been helpful with suggestions, but they will not pay to replace the battery bank….. Jason > On May 4, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Kevin Pegg <kp...@energyalternatives.ca> wrote: > > This is a good one. What battery capacity have you programmed into the XW > system? We have had a few issues, though not this one specifically, but > similar head-scratchers that were resolved by setting the battery capacity to > 0 Ah. > > Have you tried swapping AC1 and AC2 and does the problem follow the source or > the input? > > I recently had an odd issue with generator automation on AC1 on an XW+ and > Schneider tech support was helpful in replicating the issue in their lab and > issuing a fix. Might be worth engaging them if you haven't already. > > Kevin > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Jason Lerner > Sent: May-03-17 3:18 PM > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging > > Hello All, > > I’m working on a system with 3 Xantrex XW 6048’s that has grid on AC1 and a > 20 kw generator on AC2. When charging from grid it regulates during an > absorption charge at 58.2 where it should. When charging from AC 2 - > generator, the battery Voltage rises above 62 VDC, but not every single > time. All the settings are correct, EQ is turned off, and if it accidentally > got turned on is set at the same Voltage as the absorption setting. Customer > has a brand new 33 kWh AGM battery bank, that I would rather not fry. This > is a battery backup system with no PV. > > I have checked all the temperature sensors (they seem good) and tried > charging with them plugged in, and with them unplugged and it doesn’t seem > to change the situation. > > Has anybody else seen this happen before? Any suggestions? > > Thanks very much, > > Jason Lerner > Waldron Power and Light Co. > (888) 927-2526 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW 6048A unregulated during charging
Hello All, I’m working on a system with 3 Xantrex XW 6048’s that has grid on AC1 and a 20 kw generator on AC2. When charging from grid it regulates during an absorption charge at 58.2 where it should. When charging from AC 2 - generator, the battery Voltage rises above 62 VDC, but not every single time. All the settings are correct, EQ is turned off, and if it accidentally got turned on is set at the same Voltage as the absorption setting. Customer has a brand new 33 kWh AGM battery bank, that I would rather not fry. This is a battery backup system with no PV. I have checked all the temperature sensors (they seem good) and tried charging with them plugged in, and with them unplugged and it doesn’t seem to change the situation. Has anybody else seen this happen before? Any suggestions? Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. (888) 927-2526 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner
Hello William, How about using an Outback Flexware 500/1000 AC circuit breaker box with DC rated DIN rail mounted breakers? The Main breaker might need to live in the GSLC though….. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. > On Oct 10, 2016, at 2:55 PM, William Miller <will...@millersolar.com> wrote: > > Friends: > > I am looking for a PV recombiner. I need to accept the outputs from 3 remote > PV Combiners, send those outputs through GFP circuit breakers, into charge > controllers, back thorough breaker, into a bus bar, through a main breaker > and onto a large battery bank. > > I am using 2 Outback Radian inverters, but I refuse to install DC breakers on > their dead-front because wiring to studs facing away from the front is an > inferior design. Furthermore, I see no need to run PV circuits through the > GSLC cabinets. > > I looked at the Midnite MNDC15 but again, these use panel mounted breakers > with studs on the back. > > Anyone know of a more thoughtfully designed PV recombiner? > > Thanks in advance, > > William Miller > > > > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> > 805-438-5600 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AGS eq
Hi All, It’s my understanding that that yes the EQ on the inverter/charger needs to be started manually, but if the gen is running for an EQ cycle and it turns off (say runs out of fuel) before the EQ cycle is complete, the Outback charge controllers can still be in EQ mode. This happened to a few customers, and they were doing an EQ from the sun without knowing it. This was a while ago, so maybe there has been a firmware revision?? Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:47 AM, will...@millersolar.com wrote: Friends: I understood the generator had to be started and stopped manually. I have a client who was using the sequence below to stop the generator automatically. To have the generator stop automatically has a convenience factor, but I do like my clients to verify the cycle has accomplished the prescribed regimen, and walking away from the process does not accomplish that. I spoke with Outback regarding the procedure of engaging the auto mode prior to completion of the EQ and the reply was that the system had not been engineered to operate this way so the results could not be guaranteed. William From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AGS eq Hi Mac I don't think there is a global eq function. Eq continues to be manual on inverters. Gen to manual on Initiate EQ Gen to auto Done Jay Peltz power. On Feb 12, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hello wrenches, I have a question about how the global equalization function works with the Auto Gen Start on the Mate-2. Is there a way to set up a global equalization that will ensure that the generator will shutdown after the equalization has occurred? If so, how do you set it up? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Modified sine deterioration
Hi Dan, I still have 4 Trace U series inverters in the field and have told these customers that they should be saving up for a new inverter for the last 10 years. Is there some preventive troubleshooting I could do before they potentially have the problem Drake is describing, or just die of old age? I have an O scope, but have never actually used it on Modified Sine Wave Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On May 20, 2014, at 7:54 AM, Exeltech wrote: Hello Drake, As a professional electrial design engineer in the solar energy industry, I can say without hesitation, the simple answer to your question is Yes. Waveforms can deterioriate as components age. Lower-quality capacitors will dry out in 20 years' use (or less!), and this in turn can indeed alter the waveform. You'd need at a minimum a good oscilloscope to observe the waveform. If it's really ragged, and no longer stair-stepped, the inverter is clearly suspect. If it resembles a Pyramid, there may be another issue afoot. Motors connected to modified square wave power turn at lower RPM and operate [sometimes much] hotter than their sine-fed bretheren. Over time, the increased heat takes its toll on the wire insulation in the motor, causing an eventual breakdown of the insulation and a short-circuit of the windings. Presto! Motor BBQ (sometimes inverter too). By the way .. to use quality in context with reference to a modified square wave is quite an oxymoron .. but in this case, it fits. Dan On Tue, 5/20/14, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Subject: [RE-wrenches] Modified sine deterioration To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2014, 9:24 AM Hello Wrenches, We are diagnosing a system with a 20 year old Trace DR 1512 inverter. Recently a motor burned out that had been running on the system. I do understand that modified sine (modified square) wave inverters are hard on motors in general. My question is, does the quality of the Mayan Pyramid sine wave deteriorate with time as the capacitors dry up, or for any other reason? Would the power quality be expected to have declined on an old unit like this? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified Solar PV 740-448-7328 http://athens-electric.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] On demand WH
Hello Brian, I am running one of these older French models at home as well. Do you happen to have a source for parts? Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Sep 30, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote: Hi Bill, I'm still running an Aquastar 125BS (original French model, before Bosch bought them) that I installed in 1990. I've had to rebuild the water valve once (after a freeze up; it's in an unheated outside closet on the north side of my house), the high-temp sensor once, and I needed to replace the thermocouple a few times when I was just using a small propane tank to run it. I installed a 250 gallon propane tank in the late nineties and haven't had to replace the thermocouple since. The Aquastar still works great, even when my incoming water temp is near freezing. I just have to use less cold-water mix during the winter. Are you finding the new Bosch models to be this reliable? Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Loesch Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:00 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] On demand WH Hi Bill, et al, There are two major categories of tankless water heaters-natural draft (which work very similar in control aspect to a conventional tank i.e.. no electric required, some form of pilot light) and power vented (all power vented machines have need for at least a fan, most a computer with some form of display included - if your own body is incapable of telling you if the water is sufficiently hot). Of the Big Five (major players in the tankless market) all manufacture one or more models of power vented tankless. Today, only Bosch markets a natural draft tankless. Bosch offers more than one model of natural draft tankless, standing pilot and intermittent pilot. If you like simple, trouble free, and low life cycle cost, you have but one choice. http://www.bosch-climate.us/files/201304181918370.520PN_English_06.2011.pdf What must be properly addressed with _any_ tankless is intake and exhaust venting, gas line sizing, and water quality. Since this isn't a tank, the pilot flame does almost nothing in terms of freeze prevention. Some manufacturers state flow rate for their heaters without also providing temp rise. Flow rate without temp rise is meaningless. The above is a 117,000 BTU/h machine. Sometimes winter ground water temperatures are significantly colder than summertime temps. If you want hot water in the winter, too, make sure you use the appropriate temp rise. Hardness is the biggest issue with water quality, if you scale the heat exchanger you won't get the performance advertised. If you have hard water, a water softener or descaling _as required_ is necessary. I am a big fan of tankless and have been since '89 when I was first introduced to them as a user. Today, I install and troubleshoot all five major manufacturers. Co-located with the load, tankless provides you not only endless hot water but also instant hot water. Good luck, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:19 PM, frenergy wrote: Off-grid Wrenches, I'm working on a load sheet and am having a hard time finding standby and while firing electrical usage for a propane-fired on demand water heater. Do they some/all have standing pilots, glow bars, something else? I'm guessing the standby power needs are very low but we all know how even 10-15 watts adds up over 24 hrs when you're off-grid. If any body has some actual numbers rather than just pdf.specs (though manus specs might help some), I would be most grateful. Thanks in advance. Bill Feather River Solar Electric -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC, or not DC, Dat is Da question (Two Load Questions)
Hello Larry, I still install DC fridge/freezers in off grid systems for efficiency, but also so that when the owners leave for the weekend/week/month they can turn off the inverter and all the associated phantom AC loads, but the DC freezer is still on. When they come back, the meat in the freezer is still frozen. Recently for a new off grid cabin we compared a Subzero 23 Cu. ft. fridge/freezer to a Sundanzer chest freezer and Sunfrost all fridge which is 51 cu ft.combined. Using nameplate yearly KWH's, retail price tags and putting the freezer in an outbuilding we found the sunfrost/sundanzer has 2.22 times more cu ft at 60% of the subzero's energy consumptionat 66% of the cost of the Subzero. Adding additional PV/wiring/CC/racking to run the Subzero was going to cost an additional $2500. The contractor building the cabin brought up the point that the Sunfrost does stick out farther into the kitchen then an average fridge and there was going to be a cost associated with custom cabinets to match that depth, possibly the same amount as adding extra PV's... Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Dec 11, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Why would one specify DC voltage appliances or lighting for off grid systems today when we have sub-buck-a-Watt PV solar power? If you have space, you can make the added power that conventional AC appliances draw for very low cost. It could even be argued that the cost for DC items, wiring, distribution gear and labor will cost much more than simply adding more PV solar and staying all AC. I don't like wasting resources and I understand old school thinking when PV modules were very expensive, but with high efficiency AC appliances and low cost inverters and PV modules, does it still make any sense? Shine some light on my thinking. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, We still try to encourage prospective off grid customers to do a full load analysis as an initial step in the system design process. To the point: 1) What is a good watt-hours/day figure to use for a typical, modern, new, carefully chosen, fairly large conventional AC chest freezer, if kept in a heated indoor location? Assume 65 degrees and seldom opened. I will encourage that the freezer be located in a shaded, protected outdoor location, in order to greatly reduce winter energy consumption, but I need a good base figure to work with. The proposed system will most likely be 48Vnom, so a Sundanzer or similar DC freezer is out. 2) Same question for a ceiling fan, for general slow circulation of winter heat. The energystar.gov list gives relative cfm efficiency but not wattages. Is 55W still a good figure to use as a default? I have attached a condensed energystar.gov list for the freezers, but wonder what other off grid Wrenches typically use. Also, I'm not sure that Wrenches posts allow attachments, so this may not appear with my message. Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com Freezers Product List.xlsx___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC relay
Hi Mac, I don't know how their prices compare but the folks at http://power-io.com/ have been great for us. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Aug 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, mac Lewis wrote: Hi Wrenches, Does anyone have a recommendation for robust relay that has a 12VDC coil rated 200mA and contact rating of 20A at 48VDC? Thanks in advance. -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] American modcos
Could anybody comment on the quality of Suniva or Mage Solar PV's, both based in Georgia, and how well established these companies are? Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jul 23, 2012, at 12:01 PM, Solarguy wrote: 1Soltech, like many PV mfgrs use mono-crystalline cells made somewhere else. They formerly used, among others, Qcells wafers but have moved away from those presumably because of potential availability problems due to Qcells financial issues. The last pallet load I picked up at their facility about 2 weeks ago, I was told, contained Sanyo cells. 1Soltech also assembles and rebrands modules for other companies. Those company will spec whatever grade of components meet their standards which are not necessarily the same as 1Soltech. And like Dan I have observed their hand-assembling process being completely in house, with the exception of the cell production. And hand-built, in my opinion, is superior to fully automated robotics; the robots only account for faster production and not necessarily higher quality products. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc www.ntrei.com NABCEP PV 031310-57 TECL-27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf ofpenobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 6:49 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] American modcos We have our first order in for Helios 250 watt modules. I have been reticent to sell Chinese modules while my surrounding competition is selling them regularly. I am not against the principle of a world market, but I do not like the lack of environmental regulation in many countries. It does seem that Helios are truly made in America. We sized a very large off grid system with 1SolTech modules as well, but the customer did not go aheadwith the installation. I dealt directly with them in Texas, but never got confirmation that they are made completely in America. Thatdoesn't mean they aren't, just that I didn't ask for confirmationmy bad I am currently designing a 500 kw system using Helios modules. Our first (previously mentioned) installation using them will be in late August-early Sept. and will comment more then. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
Hi Larry, I am not talking about doing a discharge to 90% DOD, I was talking about doing a discharge to 20% DOD. Let's say summer folk come up for 1 month a year, and discharge to 20% DOD daily, then fully recharge with a 2 hour absorb charge and then float until the sun goes down. This systems charge controller is set to auto EQ every 30 days to stir up the electrolyte, and all loads are turned off when nobody is there. Let's say there is 4 FLA golf cart batteries and 500 watts of PV. Four average sun hours a day. How long would you expect these batteries to last? Thanks very much, Jason Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jul 13, 2012, at 9:18 AM, la...@starlightsolar.com la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Jason, Forcing a lead acid battery to deeply discharge does not increase capacity or life of the battery. It only shortens battery life and may damage the battery. This is one of many battery myths. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience From: Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com Date: Fri, July 13, 2012 7:28 am To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hello John, This time of year I service off grid summer cabins where people come up once a year for a few weeks. The batteries in these systems generally do not die from over cycling, but from over/under watering, acid stratification, corrosion, and generally being ignored. The more savvy customers I will recommend they turn off the PV's when they are there to get a deep discharge in. Could you recommend any thing else they could do to lengthen their battery bank lifespan? These systems generally have a small PV charging capability, and float charge 350 days a year. It seems ironic that these systems that really never get used, and my battery bank at home that gets used (but not abused) and cycled daily, will last the same number of years. Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
Hello John, Thank you for your helpful explanation. I wonder if there should be a six life, that being time. Lets use the small summer cabin analogy that gets used for one month a year. Let's say the system has Four T105 -RE's, 500 watts of PV, 4 average daily sun hours. They do one discharge/charge cycle down to 20% DOD and then fully charge again the same day for a 2 hour absorb. That would be 30 discharge cycles a year x 8 years = 240 discharge/charge cycles. If one was to design and instal a proper battery based system using the guidelines presented in this email thread with plenty of PV for daily charging, periodic EQ's, 20% or less DOD, no electrolyte on the battery tops to cause corrosion, never letting the plates go dry from low electrolyte level and having them at a cool 60º F year round would you expect this summer cabin system to last 4000 cycles? In a perfect world would that be 4000 cycles ÷ summer cabin 30 discharge/charge cycles a year = 133 years ?? Of course I am not expecting that, but am just trying to squeeze the longest life span possible out of batteries that mostly just sit. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:33 AM, John DeBoever wrote: Wrenches, Forcing a lead acid battery to cycle for the fun of it reduces its cycle life. In a nutshell, lead acid batteries have “five lives”, each varying depending their specific intrinsic technology attributes developed by the battery OEM: o Cycle life o Corrosion life o Stratification life o Shorting life o And… Temperature life These lives are all inter-connected and temperature is the one that is the most influent to all of them. The interesting part is that all of these “5 lives” are 90% of the time exacerbated by the system sizing (cyclic/non-cyclic, loads, insollation, PV array, battery bank size, wiring and power conditioning losses, etc.), the install, the setting points commissioning, the maintenance, not to forget the load patterns (perceived vs. reality dynamics and growth of the load). Cycling for cycling does not increase the battery life. Adequate cycling based on adequate full recharge keep the battery in good health. John John F. DeBoever Global Technical Projects Director – Renewable Energy Trojan Battery Company 12380 Clark Street Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139 Cell: +1-845-514-7600 – NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5) Skype: john.f.deboever Fax: +1-562-236-3239 jdeboe...@trojanbattery.com www.trojanbattery.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of la...@starlightsolar.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience Jason, Forcing a lead acid battery to deeply discharge does not increase capacity or life of the battery. It only shortens battery life and may damage the battery. This is one of many battery myths. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience From: Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com Date: Fri, July 13, 2012 7:28 am To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hello John, This time of year I service off grid summer cabins where people come up once a year for a few weeks. The batteries in these systems generally do not die from over cycling, but from over/under watering, acid stratification, corrosion, and generally being ignored. The more savvy customers I will recommend they turn off the PV's when they are there to get a deep discharge in. Could you recommend any thing else they could do to lengthen their battery bank lifespan? These systems generally have a small PV charging capability, and float charge 350 days a year. It seems ironic that these systems that really never get used, and my battery bank at home that gets used (but not abused) and cycled daily, will last the same number of years. Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. This e-mail message and any attachments that accompany it may contain information that is confidential, privileged, or protected from disclosure. It is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it was intended to be addressed. If you have received this e-mail by mistake, or you are not the intended recipient, any reading, disclosure, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately advise the sender at their phone number listed above, or by electronic mail, and also permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and any attachments from all locations. Thank you. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
Hi Ray, With no inverter in the system and all the loads turned off do you think the batteries are really cycling that much? Yes your scenario's sound familiar. My favorite is a load is left on, the charge controller turns off most, but maybe not all the loads with the LVD, but the battery keeps discharging until the battery Voltage gets to low so that Charge controller turns itself off so that now no PV charging can occur. Speaking of battery cell explosions, this spring I had my first. A customer with 8 L16's and 600 watts of PV came to his vacation cabin and found one cell had blown up, with scorch marks on the inside lid of the battery box. There is plenty of ventilation in there, the owner was meticulous about maintaing this 5 year old battery bank. All cables were bright and tight with no sign of corrosion or electrolyte sheen on top of the batteries. I took it back to the manufacturer who shrugged their shoulders and said, internal short, it happens Have I been lucky not to experience this before? They made it sound like it happens fairly often. Thanks, Jason On Jul 14, 2012, at 10:33 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: The batteries in your scenario are actually being cycled daily probably somewhere in the 2 to 5% range. Looking at a chart for # of cycles vs. DOD, you see the most efficient use of the battery is usually from 20% to 80% DOD, an FLA battery in perpetual float just doesn't last as long you might think. Depending on the brand of golf car battery, I would give this system a maximum life span of 10 years. Maintenance will eventually be the issue; sometime in the battery's life, it will be over charged, left for weeks under charged, or let the water go dry. A typical scenario I've seen many times: charge controller fails because of lightning, small load is left on, and the battery gets fully discharged. Since no one is there, it sits for weeks and becomes permanently damaged. Scenario 2 is similar: a load is left on (light in a closet) fridge or pump stays on and malfunctions, and the system crashes. Scenario 3 no temp compensation, battery gets over charged in the heat, boils its H20 off a couple of cells, the dead cells pull the rest of the bank down in spiraling failure that can actually do damage to the house: acid spills, corrosion, and exploding cells. I find my off grid systems that fare the best are well designed full time use with one or two people who are very consistent in their use, and maintenance. I've replaced batteries every couple of years on some part time systems, because simple problems are not caught for weeks or months. I have a couple of higher end part time systems that the owner can monitor and contact us, if for instance the power goes out. This keeps it from leading to permanent damage. Ray Walters On Jul 14, 2012, at 8:58 AM, Jason Lerner wrote: Hello John, Thank you for your helpful explanation. I wonder if there should be a six life, that being time. Lets use the small summer cabin analogy that gets used for one month a year. Let's say the system has Four T105 -RE's, 500 watts of PV, 4 average daily sun hours. They do one discharge/charge cycle down to 20% DOD and then fully charge again the same day for a 2 hour absorb. That would be 30 discharge cycles a year x 8 years = 240 discharge/charge cycles. If one was to design and instal a proper battery based system using the guidelines presented in this email thread with plenty of PV for daily charging, periodic EQ's, 20% or less DOD, no electrolyte on the battery tops to cause corrosion, never letting the plates go dry from low electrolyte level and having them at a cool 60º F year round would you expect this summer cabin system to last 4000 cycles? In a perfect world would that be 4000 cycles ÷ summer cabin 30 discharge/charge cycles a year = 133 years ?? Of course I am not expecting that, but am just trying to squeeze the longest life span possible out of batteries that mostly just sit. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:33 AM, John DeBoever wrote: Wrenches, Forcing a lead acid battery to cycle for the fun of it reduces its cycle life. In a nutshell, lead acid batteries have “five lives”, each varying depending their specific intrinsic technology attributes developed by the battery OEM: o Cycle life o Corrosion life o Stratification life o Shorting life o And… Temperature life These lives are all inter-connected and temperature is the one that is the most influent to all of them. The interesting part is that all of these “5 lives” are 90% of the time exacerbated by the system sizing (cyclic/non-cyclic, loads, insollation, PV array, battery bank size, wiring and power conditioning losses, etc.), the install, the setting points commissioning, the maintenance, not to forget the load patterns
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
Hello John, This time of year I service off grid summer cabins where people come up once a year for a few weeks. The batteries in these systems generally do not die from over cycling, but from over/under watering, acid stratification, corrosion, and generally being ignored. The more savvy customers I will recommend they turn off the PV's when they are there to get a deep discharge in. Could you recommend any thing else they could do to lengthen their battery bank lifespan? These systems generally have a small PV charging capability, and float charge 350 days a year. It seems ironic that these systems that really never get used, and my battery bank at home that gets used (but not abused) and cycled daily, will last the same number of years. Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jul 9, 2012, at 12:53 PM, John DeBoever wrote: Jason, Wrenches, Thank you for your patience and positive statements on Trojan Battery Company. Last week was a busy and I was away from my desk most of the time with limited access to Internet. Both the Premium ”RE” versions L16RE-A and L16RE-B, and, the Signature L16P L16H are great deep-cycles lead acid batteries for solar applications. The key differences between them are: ü The grid is thicker for the Premium “RE” L16RE-A and L16RE-B, which effectively reinforces further the frame strength which results into a greater corrosion resistance; ü There is relatively more electrolyte in contact with the plates in the Premium “RE” L16RE-A and L16REB, which enhances the electrochemical reaction, particularly during PSOC; ü The rubber-based multi-rib geometry separator is approx. 30% thicker for the Premium “RE” L16RE-A and L16RE-B, which translates into a longer life of the separator. The thicker multi-ribs geometry keeps over time the acid channels open longer, promoting the flow of the electrolyte . As a result, the thicker separator is reducing the risk of stratification and enhancing electrochemical processing throughout the plates, resulting into longer continuous performance of the battery. ü In the approx. same form factor (except the height), this results into more lead per Ah capacity on the L16-RE units nameplate. As a consequence, the cycling performances of the Premium “RE” is 1,600 cycles @ 50% DOD and 4,000 cycles @ 20% DOD. Respectively 1,200 cycles # 50% DOD, and, 3,000 cycles @ 20% DOD @ 20% DOD, for the L16-P L16-H. I hope this helps. Let me know if I can shed further light on other attributes of lead acid batteries. Sunniest regards, John John F. DeBoever Global Technical Projects Director – Renewable Energy Trojan Battery Company 12380 Clark Street Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 Tel: +1-562-236-3000 Ext. 3139 Cell: +1-845-514-7600 – NY office time zone: USA EST (GMT-5) Skype: john.f.deboever Fax: +1-562-236-3239 jdeboe...@trojanbattery.com www.trojanbattery.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Lerner Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 11:26 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience I am back to using Trojan's after 12 years of trying others, none seem to last as long for the L16's. Could anybody explain the technical differences between the Trojan L16 and the L16RE-B's. I have read all the brochures but would like to understand what is going on in there instead of getting the marketing of DuraGrid™, MaxGuard® XL separator and Alpha Plus. Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light and Co. On Jun 29, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Jonathan Hill wrote: Over 20 years experience with them says you can't go wring with Trojan! Jonathan Hill, senior system engineer and founder Sierra Solar Systems 563C Idaho Maryland Road Grass Valley, CA 95945 Celebrating our 32nd year in solar! tech info and foreign orders: (530) 273-6754 order line: (888) ON-SOLAR (US only) FAX: (530) 273-1760 e-mail: mailto:solar...@sierrasolar.com world wide web: http://www.sierrasolar.com Check out our 2 minute video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-0UuabPEk On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: We have had less than stellar performance out of the Crown L-16’s that we installed 4 to 5 years ago. Premature failure is my experience. About 60% of the cycle life compared to Trojan L-16’s and also Surrette/Rolls. I’ve been using those since 1985. Back to using Trojan. Specifically RE-B’s either L-16, or T-105. And have used Trojan Industrial IND 13-6V on one system with good success with another set ordered. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SunHarvest Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:56 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience Just got talked
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience
I am back to using Trojan's after 12 years of trying others, none seem to last as long for the L16's. Could anybody explain the technical differences between the Trojan L16 and the L16RE-B's. I have read all the brochures but would like to understand what is going on in there instead of getting the marketing of DuraGrid™, MaxGuard® XL separator and Alpha Plus. Thanks very much, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light and Co. On Jun 29, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Jonathan Hill wrote: Over 20 years experience with them says you can't go wring with Trojan! Jonathan Hill, senior system engineer and founder Sierra Solar Systems 563C Idaho Maryland Road Grass Valley, CA 95945 Celebrating our 32nd year in solar! tech info and foreign orders: (530) 273-6754 order line: (888) ON-SOLAR (US only) FAX: (530) 273-1760 e-mail: mailto:solar...@sierrasolar.com world wide web: http://www.sierrasolar.com Check out our 2 minute video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-0UuabPEk On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: We have had less than stellar performance out of the Crown L-16’s that we installed 4 to 5 years ago. Premature failure is my experience. About 60% of the cycle life compared to Trojan L-16’s and also Surrette/Rolls. I’ve been using those since 1985. Back to using Trojan. Specifically RE-B’s either L-16, or T-105. And have used Trojan Industrial IND 13-6V on one system with good success with another set ordered. Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SunHarvest Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:56 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Experience Just got talked into buying Crown (395Ah@20Hr) as my local rep, the battery expert, was persuasive in his testimony to their reliability. Should've consulted wrenches first. Should I be worried?? Eric Stikes SunHarvest Solar +1 (530) 798 - 3738 www.harvesthesun.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wind Turbines killing birds and bats
Hello August, Would you be willing to post the website URL for the vertical axis wind turbines to the list when it becomes available? It would be great for potential vertical axis owners (and installers) to see. Thank you, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:01 AM, August Goers wrote: Hi All Wind Wrenches, We have 5 turbines recently installed in the Golden Gate National park land in San Francisco. They are small 1 kW vertical axis units - I was not happy about installing vertical axis but that was what the client wanted. The good news is that each turbine is being monitored for output versus wind speed so we can see how they're really performing. Anyway, the point of this post is to mention that they are doing an official National Parks-sponsored bird kill study on the site. Someone walks out with a clipboard every day to check for birds or other animals. So far we've only had two stuck kites (it's a very public location!). If you're interested here's a brief video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DzdW34z3iA There will also be a website going live hopefully soon where you can see the live monitored output of each turbine. We also have 28 kWs of PV on the building. I can tell you all right now that in terms of cost per Watt-hr generated that PV is WAY cheaper. With PV prices going down the way they have I think small wind of any type is going to have a hard time competing unless it is in a very special location. Best, August -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of r...@four-winds-energy.com Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 7:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wind Turbines killing birds and bats And for more fact sheets on small and distributed wind, check out the Distributed Wind Energy Association at: www.distributedwind.org It is definitely just another talking point against wind energy. Of course large wind developments should be aware of migratory patterns. AWEA and DWEA both have good resources for debunking the myths. For those of you interested: Great Fact Sheet, by Mick Sagrillo http://www.renewwisconsin.org/wind/Toolbox-Fact%20Sheets/birds/Birds-F oE%20fact%20sheet%202007.pdf Small Wind Toolbox for debunking other myths http://www.renewwisconsin.org/wind/windtoolbox.htm From AWEA (American Wind Energy Assoc.): Birds and wind turbines: While birds do collide with wind turbines at some sites, modern wind power plants are collectively far less harmful to birds than are radio towers, tall buildings, airplanes, vehicles and numerous other manmade objects. The National Academy of Sciences estimated in 2006 that wind power is responsible for less than 0.003% (3 of every 100,000) of bird deaths caused by humans and pets. Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: 608-712-7862 ryan.hark...@energycraft.com www.energycraft.com On Jun 21, 2012, at 10:29 PM, Solarguy wrote: By some estimates, outdoor cats in the United States kill more than 1 million birds every day on average. Other studies suggest the death toll is as high as 1 billion per year. http://blog.nwf.org/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-c ats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/ Jim Duncan From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wind Turbines killing birds and bats Hello Wrenches, A very knowledgeable friend has concern about wind turbines killing birds and bats, and sent me these links. From previous posts on this list and information I've heard elsewhere, I thought this really wasn't much of an issue, more of a red herring by those who are opposed to wind energy. http://www.batsandwind.org/pdf/baerwald%20et%20al%20current%20biology %202008.pdf http://coalicionventanasverraco.org/files/horn_et_al_2008.pdf http://www.batsandwind.org/main.asp?page=researchsub=operational http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090928095347.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/collisions/pdf/wind_rulema king_petition.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_wind_power How much of an issue is this really? Can we put the danger into perspective? Does this kill more bats and birds than the pollution it displaces? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive
Re: [RE-wrenches] non-vertigo safety sun-glasses
Hello Nick, I wear these glass lens safety glasses that don't scratch and are not curved http://www.phillips-safety.com/store/index.php?cPath=46_82?osCsid=1b15k027lnasfvcplvo2fvemt2 and then can pop out the clear lens and put in green for welding or a day at the beach. Cheers, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Nick Vida wrote: Hi wrenches, I am having the hardest time finding rated safety glasses that don't cause vertigo when you get tired. Most of them are curved, and I find that it distorts your vision a bit, and hits you like crazy when you start getting on toward exhausted. Anyone have any luck finding a reasonable brand you actually wear that doesn't make you dizzy? Nick Vida ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Metal roof w/o standing seams.
Hi Jesse, I never did scab, having similar concerns of not doing it right, and use blocking. Best, Jason On May 7, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: Jason, If you scab onto a truss, is there a certain length the scab board should be? I have never heard of this practice. I worked on a lot of roofs back in my carpenter days! Thanks for the advice! Jesse Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com wrote: Hello Jesse, There is one truss manufacturer we work with who will not let us lag into the truss, and they require blocking or scabbing on another rafter to attach to. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On May 4, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: Wrenches, I will be installing system on a metal roof this summer and I am looking for some advice. The roof is metal with 2x4 wood trusses. There is no standing seam to attach to, so I am looking at a Ejot type attachment system. The modules are Silicon-energy cascade series. Any tips or advice on mounting to this roof type or mounting this type module would be greatly appreciated. Jesse Dahl Sent from my iPad!!! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] FX inverter shutting itself off
Hi John, What is the error code on the Mate when you show up, or is there none? As far as turning on the inverter remotely, I think you would need internet on site from a DC source to let any data monitoring software remotely control when the inverter is off. Is there a back up generator? What does the data monitoring show for battery Voltage around that time period? Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Feb 6, 2011, at 8:21 PM, john wrote: Wrenches, I have a mountaintop transmitter site with an FX3524, Flex Max 60, some PV and 12 L16 Bateries. They are set up in a small building used for the ski patrol at a ski area. There is a 25' freestanding lattice tower on the roof with high speed wireless internet transmitter and receiver antennas. It is a relay site and direct signals to customers. We have a problem with the inverter shutting off (off indicating on the mate ) somewhat randomly as far as # of days apart but strangely all the shutoffs have happened between 10:08 PM and 10:30 PM. We thought it might be an inverter or mate problem so we replaced both with new units. The problem continued with the new equipment. We then suspected the data logging connection may be sending a stray signal so we removed the data connection from the FX (removed the connection from the mate). I then also removed the connection from the FM 60 to the HUB, connected another MATE directly to the FM 60 and connected this new mate to our data aquisition so that we could still monitor battery voltage. The only common connection now is the batteries and also our data system is being powered from the AC out on the inverter. Now. after almost 3 days of operation, the inverter has shut off again at 10:15 PM yesterday. We know this as the data stopped coming in due to the loss of AC power at the site. My take is that the data monitoring equipment has nothing to do with the problem... also reinforced from several similar setups working flawlessly. The only thought I have is that the nearby cell tower is sending out some interference. Does anyone have a clue as to what this problem could be. My customer is really MAD. All their brand new high speed internet customers are having regular long outages. We have to trailer a snowmobile to the mountain almost an hour away and go to the top to push the ON button. Also, any comments on other data systems which could turn the inverter on remotely. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SunSaver failures; MPPT controller reliability (1A Charge/Load controller)
Larry, Thanks for the info. I also have had good luck with Morningstar Tri Star and Tri Star MPPT charge controllers. A few weeks ago I had a bunch of failures in the same week (on both models). They sent me new ones promptly, I went on vacation and now everything is fine... Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jan 23, 2011, at 7:58 AM, la...@starlightsolar.com la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: Jason, Not much to elaborate on. A single 200 watt Sanyo module, about 25' of 8 gauge wire, lowest temperature 20 degrees. When the SunSaver controllers fail, they cause a short circuit at the battery terminals. Morningstar handled the warranty as they do all SunSaver warranty's, quickly sending replacements with return postage for the defective unit. We have had 4 SunSaver failures since November 1. I sell 150+ charge controllers at our retail store each season (Nov. ~ Dec.), most of which are MPPT. Reliability is critical to me and I pay very close attention to failures. Most of my customers are mobile and not able to return to our store if a product fails. I have tested and sold many MPPT models. The Phocos MPPT controller I was evaluating failed and we have had our share of Outback and BZ controller failures. Blue Sky Energy has had a few bad controllers but compared to the volume of BSE products we sell (over 1100) they have been the most reliable. I have not yet tested Steca, TriStar, or Xantrex MPPT controllers. Larry Starlight Solar Power Systems Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 10A Charge / load controller From: Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com Date: Sat, January 22, 2011 11:56 am To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi Larry, I am curious about the failures you have had, could you elaborate? Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jan 21, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote: I have had failures with the Sunsaver MPPT. I have used them with a single Sanyo module in small battery systems. Perhaps they just can't handle the 50.9 Voc. Larry Starlight Solar Power Systems ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including battery banks?
Hi Dan, A far as off grid system data monitoring, especially with Outback gear, I really like the products from Julie Haugh at greenHouse computers. http://www.greenhousepc.com/greenMonitor.html The technical support is incredible. The software is highly programmable, reliable, and keeps power consumption to a minimum. The data gathered can be viewed in spreadsheets, graphs, plots, mobile browser, email notifications, etc. without all the more flashy CO2 offset numbers like a fat spaniel readout. Out of all the products she offers, the gmMate which allows an Outback mate to be viewed on a computer off site, and the gmLite, which is a little data monitor that runs off the AUX output from an Outback FX/VFX are my favorite. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 27, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Dan Fink wrote: In addition to the excellent information being posted here on monitoring grid-tied systems, I would be curious to know what products Wrenches have used and would recommend (or not) -- and why -- for web-based monitoring of systems that include battery banks, whether grid-tied islanding or off-grid. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including batterybanks?
Hi Carl, If using an Outback FNDC or a Bogart engineering pentametric meter, and they are set up correctly, then yes it can provide state of charge. best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 30, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Carl Emerson wrote: Jason, Is this system capable of reporting accurate state of charge? Fatspaniel could not deliver this feature... Carl Emerson Free Power Co. Land line +64 9 473 4286 Mobile +64 22 630 9689 Email emer...@freepower.co.nz Web www.freepower.co.nz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Lerner Sent: 1 December 2010 7:12 a.m. To: Dan Fink; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including batterybanks? Hi Dan, A far as off grid system data monitoring, especially with Outback gear, I really like the products from Julie Haugh at greenHouse computers. http://www.greenhousepc.com/greenMonitor.html The technical support is incredible. The software is highly programmable, reliable, and keeps power consumption to a minimum. The data gathered can be viewed in spreadsheets, graphs, plots, mobile browser, email notifications, etc. without all the more flashy CO2 offset numbers like a fat spaniel readout. Out of all the products she offers, the gmMate which allows an Outback mate to be viewed on a computer off site, and the gmLite, which is a little data monitor that runs off the AUX output from an Outback FX/VFX are my favorite. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 27, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Dan Fink wrote: In addition to the excellent information being posted here on monitoring grid-tied systems, I would be curious to know what products Wrenches have used and would recommend (or not) -- and why -- for web-based monitoring of systems that include battery banks, whether grid-tied islanding or off-grid. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback manuals in German or French
Hi Ron, Outback has many manuals on their website: resources/documents/ manuals/inverters written is Spanish. There is even an MX60 manual in Dutch, BEWAHREN SIE DIESE ANLEITUNG AUF Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jan 27, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Ron Young wrote: Hi Wrenches, Does anyone know of a source for Outback manuals (Mate VFX) in German or French? I have a customer who is having a great deal of difficulty comprehending the operation of her system and has asked. I checked with Outback and much to my surprise they don't even publish in Spanish but I thought there might be some third party info out there. Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products 1-877-925-2929 email: sa...@solareagle.com http://www.solareagle.com 79F North Third Ave Williams Lake, BC V2G 2A3 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Battery Charger Question
Hello Bob, Yes I have deep cycled the batteries. I only mentioned the 12.7 because above that voltage it will skip the absorb charge. Interstate batteries, and all the connections are good and tight, specific gravity all good as well. I was thinking maybe it is an intermittent internal connection, but I put an external charger on the same battery bank and it charges just like it should Thanks for the hints, Jason On Sep 26, 2009, at 8:11 PM, robert ellison wrote: Have you deep cycled the batteries? Normally you would be way below 12.7 when you had to use a generator to charge,12.7 is fully charged for a 12 volt pack. . Cycle them down to 10.5 to 11 volts or so a few times and charge them back up. See if it charges better when cycled. What brand of batteries are these? The magnum chargers are great, and if shorted it goes to 14.4 volts the charger is fine. Any chance you have bad connection somewhere? If you have one try using a infared pyrometer to look for a warm connection somewhere. But it has to be after you charge for a while, give it time to heat up. Bob On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com wrote: Hello All, Have a question on a Magnum 1212MM-AE. The battery charger will not get above 13.8 Volts. The system worked fine for the first three weeks with Voltage rising to 14.4 volts for the absorb cycle, but now it will not. The battery size and type setting are correct, and using the custom charging profile set to 15 Volts does not work. We have tried unplugging the BTS, while also making sure the battery Voltage is below 12.7 when starting the generator. The remote control is attached and there is 35 amps going into the battery with a 2KW honda. It will sit at 13.8 Volts and do an absorb cycle for 2 hours and then go into float. There are 4 golf cart batteries in the system and all cells check out good, no dead cells, and connection are all bright and tight. Turning the main DC disconnect off while the gen is running shows 14.8 Volts at the battery terminals of the inverter, but the batteries will not rise above 13.8. Magnum says the battery charger is fine since it goes up to 14.8 when the batteries are disconnected, but that doesn't make for a very efficient charger if it is not connected to the batteries.. I am not familiar with these chargers, did I miss something, any ideas? Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. (888) 927-2526 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Battery Charger Question
Hello Darryl, Yes the battery charger is going to absorb for a full cycle then to float, but the problem is the battery charger is set to 14.4, but the battery bank only gets to 13.8 for the absorb cycle then goes to float. I unplugged the BTS thinking that was bringing the Voltage down, but that did not change anything. I tried changing the absorb voltage using the custom setting to 15.2 Volts to try to trick a higher voltage absorb but that did not help. Specific Gravity shows appropriate for each cell. I connected an external battery charger to the same battery bank and it charges just fine, so my question is about the Magnum battery charger. Thanks for your help, Jason On Sep 27, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Darryl Thayer wrote: I am a little confused, is it the batteries or the charger that is giving you problems. Perform a charge cycle and measure the charge current and charge voltage. Check the specific gravity, resting voltage before starting, perhaps the charger is going to absorb volts and droping to float? Just a thought Darryl --- On Sat, 9/26/09, robert ellison reelli...@gmail.com wrote: From: robert ellison reelli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Battery Charger Question To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 10:11 PM Have you deep cycled the batteries? Normally you would be way below 12.7 when you had to use a generator to charge,12.7 is fully charged for a 12 volt pack. . Cycle them down to 10.5 to 11 volts or so a few times and charge them back up. See if it charges better when cycled. What brand of batteries are these? The magnum chargers are great, and if shorted it goes to 14.4 volts the charger is fine. Any chance you have bad connection somewhere? If you have one try using a infared pyrometer to look for a warm connection somewhere. But it has to be after you charge for a while, give it time to heat up. Bob On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Jason Lerner wapa...@rockisland.com wrote: Hello All, Have a question on a Magnum 1212MM-AE. The battery charger will not get above 13.8 Volts. The system worked fine for the first three weeks with Voltage rising to 14.4 volts for the absorb cycle, but now it will not. The battery size and type setting are correct, and using the custom charging profile set to 15 Volts does not work. We have tried unplugging the BTS, while also making sure the battery Voltage is below 12.7 when starting the generator. The remote control is attached and there is 35 amps going into the battery with a 2KW honda. It will sit at 13.8 Volts and do an absorb cycle for 2 hours and then go into float. There are 4 golf cart batteries in the system and all cells check out good, no dead cells, and connection are all bright and tight. Turning the main DC disconnect off while the gen is running shows 14.8 Volts at the battery terminals of the inverter, but the batteries will not rise above 13.8. Magnum says the battery charger is fine since it goes up to 14.8 when the batteries are disconnected, but that doesn't make for a very efficient charger if it is not connected to the batteries.. I am not familiar with these chargers, did I miss something, any ideas? Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. (888) 927-2526 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Magnum Battery Charger Question
Hello All, Have a question on a Magnum 1212MM-AE. The battery charger will not get above 13.8 Volts. The system worked fine for the first three weeks with Voltage rising to 14.4 volts for the absorb cycle, but now it will not. The battery size and type setting are correct, and using the custom charging profile set to 15 Volts does not work. We have tried unplugging the BTS, while also making sure the battery Voltage is below 12.7 when starting the generator. The remote control is attached and there is 35 amps going into the battery with a 2KW honda. It will sit at 13.8 Volts and do an absorb cycle for 2 hours and then go into float. There are 4 golf cart batteries in the system and all cells check out good, no dead cells, and connection are all bright and tight. Turning the main DC disconnect off while the gen is running shows 14.8 Volts at the battery terminals of the inverter, but the batteries will not rise above 13.8. Magnum says the battery charger is fine since it goes up to 14.8 when the batteries are disconnected, but that doesn't make for a very efficient charger if it is not connected to the batteries.. I am not familiar with these chargers, did I miss something, any ideas? Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. (888) 927-2526 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fisher Paykal on a MAGNASINE
Hi Dana, I have run the Fisher-Paykal washer on a DR, SW, SW+, PS, Outback, Prosine 1000 and Magnum MMS1012 with no problems. I stuffed a huge load in, and tried running it on a Morningstar SureSine 300 watt (surge to 600 for 10 minutes), which has a quick blow 40 amp fused input inside the inverter. I installed a 30 amp circuit breaker on the DC input which tripped in the very last cycle, it very well may had finished the load with just the 40 amp fuse. The hot/cold mixing valve has a low spot spot in the plastic casing, and we have had them freeze and crack in low temperatures. The tech guys in New Zealand got a kick out of that since it was over 95º F the day we called. I have not tried the Magna sine inverter though. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and LIght Co. On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Dana wrote: Has anyone run a Fisher-Paykal washer on the Magna sine modified sine wave 1200 watt inverter? Good to do or not? Thanks Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 “I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.” —Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?
Hi Jeff, I have a Db-25 male to male 4' long connector that I think is what you are looking for. I have always thought it was a stacking connector but it's been in the van for a while If someone had a pinout I could test it to make sure, and send out if it is the right one. Best, jason -- Jason Lerner Waldron Power and LIght Co. (888) wapalco office/fax (360) 588-6194 On Mar 30, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Jeff Clearwater, Village Power Design wrote: Hi All, I need to track down a '98 vintage Trace SW stacking cable. Anyone have or know where I might find one? Thanks, Jeff C. -- ~ Jeff Clearwater Senior Design Engineer NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer http://www.nabcep.org/ Village Power Design/NorthEast Solar Design Turnkey Solar Design Installation for the Commercial Sector http://www.villagepower.com goso...@villagepower.com Voice: 413-259-3750 Fax: 413-825-0703 65 Schoolhouse Rd Amherst, MA 01002 ~ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Low Voltage Alarm Based on cell phone text message
Hello Peter, Is there good cell coverage or Internet access on the site? What Inverter are you using? Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Jan 31, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: We have sold an off grid system delivering 24 volts DC. The application is “mission important”. We have built in a LVD and alarm, but the client wants an early warning system based on sending text message to a cell phone number. So we need to program a LCD around 20% residual capacity (easier part) and a cell phone interface. I know the PPA community has a solution: high-end comm link and big bucks. Is there something simple and cheap that we can implement? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] outback off grid monitoring
Hi Jay, I have been using Wattplot for a few years and have seen it grow into a great product for remote Outback systems. http://www.wattplot.com/wattplot.htm You need to have a computer on site or use a $100 RS-232 (from Mate) to IP converter. This IP converter draws about 5 watts and allows data collection every second from the Mate to any place off site with an Internet connection. I monitor 4 remote systems on my office PC (not for Macs though). It can provide email notifications, daily kwh's, aux usage, etc, Pen plots are great to pin point when some event occurred, and all warnings and error codes are recorded, and can be emailed. All files can be exported and read in Excel. Every port gets it's own screen line showing all important info such as Battery Voltage, AC In/Out charging modes, battery temp etc. It has become a great tool on my laptop to calibrate the voltages from every FX or FM's on large systems. My experience with satellite Internet is between the FAP (fair access policy) restricting bandwidth and what they charge to get a static IP, it might be better to have a laptop on site and install the Wattplot on it, and have it do email reports whenever you would like. The Asus Eee PC with a 10 screen is the most efficient laptop I have found for this type of setup, but it needs to have Windows and not Linux. Feel free to contact me off list. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and LIght Co. (888) 927-2526 On Dec 14, 2008, at 3:20 PM, jay peltz wrote: Hi All, I'm looking into my options about monitoring and control of a large remote Outback off-grid system. System will already have satellite internet wireless access. Wondering what my options are and who likes what. The ones I've found are Righthand Engineering Fat Spaniel thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
