Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Marshall Dudley]

Rachel Smithies wrote:

Hello,
I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't 
mind if I ask a couple of questions...
 
Please can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal 
and ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which 
is safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, 
in terms of preventing agyria problems?
 
Many thanks

Rachel


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Most silver solutions, what we call EIS, are a combination of both ionic 
silver and colloidal silver. The colloidal part is made up of small 
silver particles of a few nanometers each held into suspension by 
browning movement and charge. The ionic part is made up of ionized 
silver atoms, which are linked to either oxygen or the oh radical in the 
water.  Pure ionic silver will cause argyria, colloidal portion is 
believe by me to prevent argyria, thus a combination of the two is 
generally safe was well.


Marshall


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Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Ode Coyote]

At 04:09 PM 5/3/2009 +, you wrote:

Hello,
I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind 
if I ask a couple of questions...


Please can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and 
ionic silver?


 Colloidal suspension:  Particles small enough to stay suspended in water.
Ionic solution: One atom plus or minus an electron, dissolved in water.

 Both are safe to ingest.
 Neither will cause Argyria unless enough silver is RETAINED in the body.
 Either can cause Agyria..except..ionic silver has a maximum concentration 
before it becomes colloidal when the solubility limits of the water are 
exceeded...unless the silver is in a more highly soluble compound such as 
Silver Citrate..also considered an ionic solution.
 Having an abnormal metals elimination system is almost a requirement for 
Smurfdom at virtually any exposure level and duration.


 Agyria is a **combination** of problems that include silver, therefore, 
silver doesn't **cause** it...it's the combination that does.
 The Agyria rate for those who work silver...miners, refiners etc that are 
exposed to massive amounts daily for decades is around 1 in 2,000.


Normally, Oral doses of Silver [in any form] are eliminated at the rate of 
around 97% within 48 hours and inhaled DUST at 94% within 30 days.
 You can imagine how hard it is to find blue people to head up the Smurf 
parade of horrors?
..they'll keep sifting though the millions and find one now and then...and 
often doctor up the photo shoots.


All production methods that use electricity and water make nothing BUT 
ionic silver.
 Particles come later as solubility limits of water are exceeded, often 
in high concentration zones near the electrodes [Nernst Diffusion layer] 
and consist of varying ratios of Silver Hydroxide, Silver Oxide and 
metallic silver with generally between 85 to 97% remaining ionic over all.


Particle sizes and  numbers determined by a TEM [electron microscope] are 
completely bogus.
 Those are photos of silver oxide particles made OUT OF Ions by preparing 
the sample for testing and were never in the water
 With 85 to 97% being ionic, that being as small as it can be and still be 
silver and anything bigger is not an Ionparticle size  is virtually 
irrelevant.

 That's like 3 specks of pepper in a spoon of salt.
 If you turn all the salt INTO pepper, then you get a TEM photo of particles

If it's small enough to get in, it's small enough to get out.
Too big to get in?  Doesn't need to get out. [Free pass..through]
 Membranes in the body  make pretty darned good Osmosis filters.
 Those filters are even ion selective by virtue of what's behind them.

Worry is what gives ya the Blues, way beyond the capabilit-EIS of Silver.

Ode

 Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest 
for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing 
agyria problems?


Many thanks
Rachel


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CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Rachel Smithies]

Hello,

I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't mind if I 
ask a couple of questions...

 

Please can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and ionic 
silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is safer to ingest 
for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in terms of preventing 
agyria problems?

 

Many thanks

Rachel

_
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Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[M. G. Devour]

Greetings and welcome, Rachel!

 I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't
 mind if I ask a couple of questions... 

Please do...

 ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and
 ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is
 safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in
 terms of preventing agyria problems?

Good questions, all.

Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a 
suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a 
liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the 
liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid 
due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our 
planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that!

Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale, consisting 
of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they don't settle 
out after a long time then they're small enough for the suspension to 
be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not.

Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll 
stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out.

An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of 
atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an 
electrical charge. 

Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of:

Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge
Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge

Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few 
hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water 
molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel each 
other out, and form again, indefinitely.

Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing-
speak:

What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass 
every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle.

Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call 
it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out in 
the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder

Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one 
of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent versions 
of these that are not so crudely made...)

Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with 
another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to 
precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the 
chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some 
of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores.

Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it with 
water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product that, 
while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also been 
linked more than once to cases of argyria.

Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver 
generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low 
voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will 
produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive 
charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit (about 
13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water. 

(Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation 
EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.)

Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration can 
be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally and 
clumping together to make particles. These particles might or might not 
still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small enough to stay 
in suspension. 

If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become 
crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just 
by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms can 
grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even longer 
and you'll end up with mud. grin

Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both 
the ionic and colloidal forms.

Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that 
will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions. 
From a few ppm to about 10ppm is easy to do, safe, stable, and 
generally effective. Exactly what proportion you produce isn't all that 
important. It just works.

Back to marketing hype: People will claim that either ionic or 
particulate (colloidal) silver is the part that's effective, and that 
the other is less or not effective. 

They'll say it's only because of the few percent of colloid that forms 
that our simple EIS works at all.

Others will say the particulate part doesn't work and that it's the 
ions that do the job...

A little thought will 

Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[M. G. Devour]

Hey Arnold, it's not plagiarism if you put it in quotes and credit it 
to the source in the footnotes! grin

Mike D.

 Hi  Mike,
 As usual, a great explanation.  Tell me,  how do you feel about
 plagiarism? I am usually strongly against it and would not indulge in
 it, probably from fear of being discovered.  In this case I have a
 strong urge to just do a copy and paste. - Original Message -
 From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic
 silver
 
 
  Greetings and welcome, Rachel!
 
  I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't
  mind if I ask a couple of questions...
 
  Please do...
 
  ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and
  ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is
  safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in
  terms of preventing agyria problems?
 
  Good questions, all.
 
  Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a
  suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a
  liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the
  liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid
  due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our
  planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that!
 
  Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale,
  consisting of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they
  don't settle out after a long time then they're small enough for the
  suspension to be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not.
 
  Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll
  stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out.
 
  An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of
  atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an
  electrical charge.
 
  Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of:
 
  Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge
  Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge
 
  Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few
  hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water
  molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel
  each other out, and form again, indefinitely.
 
  Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing-
  speak:
 
  What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass
  every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle.
 
  Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call
  it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out
  in the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder
 
  Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one
  of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent
  versions of these that are not so crudely made...)
 
  Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with
  another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to
  precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the
  chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some
  of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores.
 
  Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it
  with water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product
  that, while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also
  been linked more than once to cases of argyria.
 
  Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver
  generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low
  voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will
  produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive
  charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit
  (about 13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water.
 
  (Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation
  EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.)
 
  Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration
  can be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally
  and clumping together to make particles. These particles might or
  might not still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small
  enough to stay in suspension.
 
  If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become
  crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just
  by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms
  can grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even
  longer and you'll end up with mud. grin
 
  Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both
  the ionic and colloidal forms.
 
  Most of us try to make a relatively low

RE: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Neville Munn]

 

 From: mdev...@eskimo.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:06:38 -0500
 Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver
 
 Greetings and welcome, Rachel!
 
  I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't
  mind if I ask a couple of questions... 
 
 Please do...
 
  ... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and
  ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is
  safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in
  terms of preventing agyria problems?
 
Mike's severely snipped quote:

 

[What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass 
every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle.]

-I recommend you read this part over and over till it is well understood.


[Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver 
generator]
-This would be the best way, you'll know exactly what EIS you have then.


[Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both 
the ionic and colloidal forms.]

-Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


[Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that 
will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions.]

-This is generally true, but in my experience if you build your own generator 
this 'ratio' could differ slightly, depending on how the generator is 
constructed, and possibly in combination with the methods used to produce EIS.

 

In my experience, using my own equipment and production methods, I have gotten 
this ratio closer to 50/50.

 

My experimentation and observations have led me to consider which particular 
type of solution to use for any given situation, best of both worlds if you 
like, ions for internal use, particles for external use, or vise versa 
depending on an individuals interpretation of which is 'best', or what 'works', 
this assists me in deciding what type of solution to use at the time, and this 
incorporates 'colour' for me also.


[Back to marketing hype: People will claim that either ionic or 
particulate (colloidal) silver is the part that's effective, and that 
the other is less or not effective. 
Others will say the particulate part doesn't work and that it's the 
ions that do the job...]

-This sort of ties in with what I explained as a personal observation in the 
above few lines.  Perhaps I could suggest you read The Body Electric by 
Robert O Becker and Colloids in Health and Disease by Alfred B. Searle, I 
feel sure you won't regret doing so.

[Every case of argyria we know of has involved higher concentrations and 
chemical salts or other compounds or protein-based preparations, if the 
cause is known precisely at all.]

-I recommend you read this one over and over till it is fully understood also.


[In any case, we're all guinea pigs and lab rats, experimenting on 
ourselves with little or no guidance from proper authorities. In 
other words, we're all on our own.]

-Never truer words were spoken!!  I'm using myself as a, 'case study' if you 
like, ingesting a quantity of EIS every morning before breakfast, and have been 
doing so for several years.  You will need to be careful of who you consider 
the proper authorities would be Mike speaks of here, I suggest it would be 
prudent not to stray too far from this site though. g

 

[I'm sure if I've left anything out or made any mistakes others will 
dive in with their corrections and additions. That's the way this place 
works! grin]

-Snap!


Neville.

_
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Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Arnold Beland]

Hi  Mike,
As usual, a great explanation.  Tell me,  how do you feel about plagiarism? 
I am usually strongly against it and would not indulge in it, probably from 
fear of being discovered.  In this case I have a strong urge to just do a 
copy and paste.
- Original Message - 
From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver



Greetings and welcome, Rachel!


I am new to the list. Your archives are down and so I hope you don't
mind if I ask a couple of questions...


Please do...


... can somebody tell me what the difference is between colloidal and
ionic silver? Is it particle size and method of production? Which is
safer to ingest for medicinal purposes, colloidal or ionic silver, in
terms of preventing agyria problems?


Good questions, all.

Speaking in technical, rather than marketing terms, a colloid is a
suspension of particles that are small enough to stay dispersed in a
liquid just by the random mixing caused by Brownian motion within the
liquid. That's just the normal movement of the molecules of the liquid
due to the latent heat energy they posess due to the fact that our
planet isn't a dark, frozen rock in space. Thank the sun for that!

Colloidal particles could be pretty big, on an atomic scale, consisting
of 10's or 100's of atoms of a substance, or more. If they don't settle
out after a long time then they're small enough for the suspension to
be called a colloid; if they do settle out, they're not.

Fine clay in water can form a colloidal suspension, for example. It'll
stay cloudy indefinitely and not settle out.

An ion is a particle, too, but specifically an atom or small group of
atoms that has gained or lost at least one electron and thus has an
electrical charge.

Common table salt in water breaks apart into equal numbers of:

Na(+) sodium ions with a missing electron and a positive charge
Cl(-) chlorine ions with an extra electron and a negative charge

Even in plain water, random movement will cause there to be a few
hydrogen, H(+) ions and hydroxyl, OH(-) ions floating about, as water
molecules sponaneously break apart. They will recombine and cancel each
other out, and form again, indefinitely.

Now, talking about silver, including some translation of marketing-
speak:

What's generically been called colloidal silver seems to encompass
every damn thing anybody has ever bothered to put in a bottle.

Grind up silver metal into a powder, toss it in some liquid, and call
it colloidal silver... You'd be right, at least until it settles out in
the bottom of the bottle. Shake before use, no doubt! shudder

Put it in a protein gel to keep it suspended better and you'd have one
of the early silver protein products. (There are some recent versions
of these that are not so crudely made...)

Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound, mix it with
another chemical, causing the compound to break up and the silver to
precipitate out as tiny particles... and you'll have one of the
chemically derived products calling themselves colloidal silver. Some
of these are bottled and sold by health-food stores.

Take a concentrated solution of some silver compound and dilute it with
water and sell it directly... and you'll have yet another product that,
while it might be effective and safe if used sparingly, has also been
linked more than once to cases of argyria.

Do what most of us do, and buy or build a basic colloidal silver
generator, and you'll put silver into pure distilled water by low
voltage direct current electricity. At low concentrations, this will
produce mostly ions (single atoms) of silver, each bearing a positive
charge, floating around in the water. Up to the solubility limit (about
13ppm, isn't it?) these will mostly stay isolated in the water.

(Which has led to some of our members calling this kind of preparation
EIS, for Electrically Isolated Silver.)

Near the positive silver electrode, though, the local concentration can
be pretty high, leading to atoms hitting each other occasionally and
clumping together to make particles. These particles might or might not
still have a charge on them, but they're certainly small enough to stay
in suspension.

If you run the CS maker long enough, the ions of silver will become
crowded enough in the water to find each other and clump together just
by random motion. After running it long enough, the clumps of atoms can
grow big enough to start falling out of suspension. Go on even longer
and you'll end up with mud. grin

Thus, any product made this way is going to end up with some of both
the ionic and colloidal forms.

Most of us try to make a relatively low concentration CS or EIS that
will generally turn out to be 10 to 30% particles and 70 to 90% ions.
From a few ppm to about 10ppm is easy to do, safe, stable, and
generally effective. Exactly what proportion you produce isn't all that
important. It just works.

Back to marketing

Re: CScolloidal vs. ionic silver

[Jonathan B. Britten]

One interesting claim by Ode:  that some studies show that even lower 
concentrations -- 3% I think -- are dramatically more effective than 
higher.   He once sent me a link to the information that resolved to a 
page describing a very interesting outdoor/ survival mult-tool  with an 
axe, knife, compass, etc.   (I would like to have one, actually, but 
lost the link.)Back on track:  any links to data about the lower 
concentrations would be helpful.Why spend time (many hours for a 
good constant current unit) to make a ppm that is less effective?







On Monday, May 4, 2009, at 03:11 Asia/Tokyo, M. G. Devour wrote:


A low concentration (~5-10 ppm), mixed ionic/colloidal silver
preparation like we advocate, will drown you from excessive water
intake long before you can ingest enough silver to cause argyria, at
least as far as experience has shown so far.



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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic

[Marshall Dudley]

Mary Ellen Murphy wrote:


Here is some research I have done on this topic.  Any comments would 
be helpful


http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

 


Thanks

Mary Ellen

The page does a pretty good job of describing the differences between 
ionic, colloidal and MSP silver.  It also indicated that most colloidal 
silver is around 80 to 90% (actually he just says 90%) ionic, and his is 
10 to 50% ionic.  He calls one ionic and one colloidal, but fact is they 
are both a mixture of ionic and colloidal, ours is just MORE ionic and 
his is MORE colloidal.  They are both mixtures of ionic and colloidal.  
There is no real argument there as far as composition goes, but the big 
question is which is more effective.  The ionic portion causes the 
reversion to stem cells, very very helpful for healing injuries, and 
preventing scarring.. It is also an effective germicide. The colloidal 
portion is also an effective germicide, possibly the effectiveness of 
each is better or worse depending on the type of germ.  The colloidal 
portion is necessary to prevent argyria.  So which is better. Not sure 
one is better than the other across the board.  Ours is likely better 
for burns, which respond to silver ions best, and to prevent scarring. 
His might be best against some pathogens, but don't know which ones if 
it is.


Marshall


 




*From:* Dee [mailto:d...@deetroy.org]
*Sent:* Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:19 PM
*To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
*Subject:* RE: CSGlandular fever

 


Thanks Dan.  Dee

 


/---Original Message---/

 


*/From:/* Dan Nave mailto:dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com

*/Date:/* 06/19/08 14:30:05

*/To:/* silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com

*/Subject:/* RE: CSGlandular fever

 

I would take 1 to 2 teaspoons every half hour, or 1 Tablespoon (1/2 
ounce) every hour, at least for the first day or two.  Then taper 
off.   If doing the smaller amount, do it at the more frequent rate.


 

 

 




 

 





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CSColloidal vs Ionic

[Mary Ellen Murphy]

Here is some research I have done on this topic.  Any comments would be
helpful

http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

 

Thanks 

Mary Ellen

 

  _  

From: Dee [mailto:d...@deetroy.org] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:19 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSGlandular fever

 


Thanks Dan.  Dee 

 

---Original Message---

 

From: Dan mailto:dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com  Nave

Date: 06/19/08 14:30:05

To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Subject: RE: CSGlandular fever

 

I would take 1 to 2 teaspoons every half hour, or 1 Tablespoon (1/2 ounce)
every hour, at least for the first day or two.  Then taper off.   If doing
the smaller amount, do it at the more frequent rate.

 

 



 

 

 

Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic

[Dee]

Seems pretty comprehensive and self explanatory.  Dee 

---Original Message---
 
From: Mary Ellen Murphy
Date: 06/19/08 19:26:43
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CSColloidal vs Ionic
 
Here is some research I have done on this topic.  Any comments would be
helpful
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html
 
Thanks 
Mary Ellen
 

Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic

[Clayton Family]

This has already been answered here. This site is Frank Key's site. He 
makes a colloidal silver, not an ionic silver.  I assume his stuff 
works, it all works, but there are some that are better than others, 
and some that are definitely cheaper than others, and as good.


There are many people waving their arms and insisting they are right 
and everyone else is wrong. The ionic silver works very well, and there 
are lab results backing it up, and maybe thousands of people who have 
become well.


You are finding out that there is some disagreement about whether an 
ion or a colloidal particle is the best. The short answer is that they 
all work, but the ionic homemade stuff is perhaps the best, most low 
cost asnwer available today.


kathryn

On Jun 19, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Mary Ellen Murphy wrote:

   Here is some research I have done on this topic.  Any comments 
would be helpful


http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html

 
Thanks   Mary Ellen


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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Dee]

Well done Malcom; I will keep this in case anyone else needs to know!  Dee 

---Original Message---
 
From: Malcolm
Date: 18/06/2008 06:12:40
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver
 
Hi Mary Ellen,
Ok, here we go, without all the  . . . . ; first off, some things
dissolve easily in water - salt, sugar, alcohol (think vodka), even
oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide out of the air though some of
these not very much. Some things don't dissolve - though you can get an
argument about that, but for now; uh . . . no.
 

RE: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Mary Ellen Murphy]

Thanksfor your help

-Original Message-
From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:08 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

Lots of questions answered here:
http://silver-lightning.com/theory.html

By our esteemed gurus

Chuck
If you are in a car travelling at the speed of light in reverse and
turn on the headlights, what happens?


On 6/17/2008 10:10:10 PM, Mary Ellen Murphy
(maryelle...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
 I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal
 silver.  Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a
 newcomer all it is is jibber jabber.  I still
 don't have clue what the
 difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal.  I
 would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I
 guess arguing.  Could someone help.  I have read and read and you guys
just
 have me lost.
 
 I appreciate the info but I don't
 think anyone has said which is ionic and
 which is colloidal.
 
 Thanks
 Mary Ellen
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial
 
 Frank
 Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his
 statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and
 particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective.
 That's
 the key point.
 
 The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest
 about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives.  That puts him high on


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Marshall Dudley]

Mary Ellen Murphy wrote:

I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal
silver.  Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a
newcomer all it is is jibber jabber.  I still don't have clue what the
difference
 is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal.  I
would love
 just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I
guess
 arguing.  Could someone help.  I have read and read and you guys just
have me
 lost.

I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic
 and
which is colloidal.
  

Atoms can present themselves in 4 forms.

1. As single atoms, such as neon does.
2. As a compound, in which the atoms are loosely associated via electric 
field due to losing or gaining an electron. An atom which has gained or 
lost an electron (or more) is referred to as an ion.  Ionic compounds 
typically disassociate when dissolved in water, which is an ionic 
solvent.  That is the positive ion and negative ions will move about in 
the solution independent of each other. Salt is a good example of this.
3. Covalent bonding. This is when two or more atoms combine by sharing 
one or more electrons.  These compounds typically do not dissolve in 
water, but there are exceptions, such as sugar.  Hydrocarbons, plastics 
and even molecules of most gases are in this form.  A diamond is one 
huge covalently bonded group of carbon atoms.
4. Particle, held together not by electrons or charge but by Van der 
Waals force.  An example of this would be a salt crystal, the salt 
compound is ionically bonded sodium and chlorine, but all those 
molecules stick together due to the Van der Waals force.


Thus when one is speaking of ionic silver, they are speaking of silver 
atoms which have lost an electron and are positively charged.  In the 
EIS we typically make these silver ions give their electron to a water 
molecule, and cause either a negatively charged O, or negatively charged 
OH as the opposite ion. Thus for the ionic portion of the mix, we have a 
mixture of silver oxide and silver hydroxide.  Each of these compounds 
have a solubility limit of about 13 ppm.  If you add a small amount of 
salt to EIS, then it will cloud up due to this portion reacting with 
salt, and forming near insoluble silver chloride.  Shining a laser into 
this will not product any Tyndall effect.  This is the portion which is 
capable of causing injured cells to revert back to stem cells. It is 
also effective in killing pathogens.


For the particulate portion, which is the colloidal part, we have clumps 
of silver atoms, which have no charge  They may range from 2 atoms to 
thousands of atoms each. The more atoms in the particle, the larger it 
becomes, and the less stable they are.  Adding salt to this will cause 
no change. Using a laser though will give Tyndall effect.  This part is 
believed to be very effective in killing pathogens.


I hope this helps.

Marshall

Thanks
Mary Ellen

-Original
 Message-
From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp] 
Sent:

 Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FW:
 CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial

Frank Key's wonderful
 contributions to this list have included his 
statement that he believes
 home-made EIS contains both ionic and 
particulate silver, mostly the former, and
 that it is effective.  
That's the key point.


The gentleman has a
 product for sale, but is quite direct and honest 
about the efficacy of low-cost
 alternatives.  That puts him high on my 
list of honest people, and though
 I've not purchased his product, more 
inclined to believe that it is
 efficacious and arguably worth the 
higher cost, as some on this list have

 claimed.

As for the ionic/particulate debate, some of the best-informed
 experts 
here have never resolved the matter well enough for me to draw solid 
conclusions.   Again, the bottom line:  Mr. Key will vouch for the 
efficacy
 of the product most of us make using low-cost electrolytic 
devices.




On Monday, Jun 16, 2008, at 23:07 Asia/Tokyo, Jim Meissner yahoo wrote:

  
 I have been a member of this group for over 9 years and have learned a 
  
 lot
  

of very useful information by just lurking.  There is a collection of

 
  

great
minds here.  I have not been active for a few years now, but I

 
  

remember the
ion, particle wars with Frank Key on one side and

 seemingly everyone 
  

else on
the other side.  I have visited Frank Key's

 testing laboratory on 
  

several
occasions.  He has purchased the very

 best, money no object, test 
  

equipment.
I would guess that he has more

 that a million dollars sitting in one 
  

room.
I remember that the people


 who criticized Frank the loudest had no test
  

equipment at all, just pet


 theories.  He even offered to test anybody's
  

colloidal silver for free to

 do a comparison.  I am an engineer and I 
  

CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Mary Ellen Murphy]

I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal
silver.  Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a
newcomer all it is is jibber jabber.  I still don't have clue what the
difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal.  I
would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I
guess arguing.  Could someone help.  I have read and read and you guys just
have me lost.

I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and
which is colloidal.

Thanks
Mary Ellen

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial

Frank Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his 
statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and 
particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective.  
That's the key point.

The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest 
about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives.  That puts him high on my 
list of honest people, and though I've not purchased his product, more 
inclined to believe that it is efficacious and arguably worth the 
higher cost, as some on this list have claimed.

As for the ionic/particulate debate, some of the best-informed experts 
here have never resolved the matter well enough for me to draw solid 
conclusions.   Again, the bottom line:  Mr. Key will vouch for the 
efficacy of the product most of us make using low-cost electrolytic 
devices.



On Monday, Jun 16, 2008, at 23:07 Asia/Tokyo, Jim Meissner yahoo wrote:

 I have been a member of this group for over 9 years and have learned a 
 lot
 of very useful information by just lurking.  There is a collection of 
 great
 minds here.  I have not been active for a few years now, but I 
 remember the
 ion, particle wars with Frank Key on one side and seemingly everyone 
 else on
 the other side.  I have visited Frank Key's testing laboratory on 
 several
 occasions.  He has purchased the very best, money no object, test 
 equipment.
 I would guess that he has more that a million dollars sitting in one 
 room.
 I remember that the people who criticized Frank the loudest had no test
 equipment at all, just pet theories.  He even offered to test anybody's
 colloidal silver for free to do a comparison.  I am an engineer and I 
 like
 the idea of measuring something rather than just guessing.


--
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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Craig Chamberlin]

Mary Ellen,

They all make some of both, usually 75-90% ionic, the balance
colloidal...Except Frank Key's product which isn't going to interest
you but it is about 80% colloidal, 20% ionic.

The generators so far suggested to you are all going to give the former
combination...mostly ionic and less colloidal...BUT both work just fine.

I can vouch for the silverpuppy, but I know the others are fine too...I
just happen to like that one.

I hope this helps clear it up for you.

Kind regards,

Craig





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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[cking001]

Lots of questions answered here:
http://silver-lightning.com/theory.html

By our esteemed gurus

Chuck
If you are in a car travelling at the speed of light in reverse and
turn on the headlights, what happens?


On 6/17/2008 10:10:10 PM, Mary Ellen Murphy
(maryelle...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
 I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal
 silver.  Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a
 newcomer all it is is jibber jabber.  I still
 don't have clue what the
 difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal.  I
 would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I
 guess arguing.  Could someone help.  I have read and read and you guys just
 have me lost.
 
 I appreciate the info but I don't
 think anyone has said which is ionic and
 which is colloidal.
 
 Thanks
 Mary Ellen
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Jonathan B. Britten [mailto:jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: FW: CSInfo about the best generatrorfor collodial
 
 Frank
 Key's wonderful contributions to this list have included his
 statement that he believes home-made EIS contains both ionic and
 particulate silver, mostly the former, and that it is effective.
 That's
 the key point.
 
 The gentleman has a product for sale, but is quite direct and honest
 about the efficacy of low-cost alternatives.  That puts him high on
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20 
AM

Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic Silver

[Malcolm]

Hi Mary Ellen,
Ok, here we go, without all the  . . . . ; first off, some things
dissolve easily in water - salt, sugar, alcohol (think vodka), even
oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide out of the air though some of
these not very much. Some things don't dissolve - though you can get an
argument about that, but for now; uh . . . no.

So next, strange as it may seem, there are two ways things dissolve in
water; they either stay themselves and their molecules just get totally
swirled into and around with the water molecules - like alcohol - or
they get split into two parts, a positive part and a negative. The
positive and negative descriptions of the parts are there because
the whatever - let's say good ol' salt - when it dissolves in water -
gets torn in two so a very little extra + (plus) electric charge ends up
on one piece and a matching opposite - (minus) electric charge on the
other: Those are ions, a positive ion, and a negative ion, from what was
salt.  Neither one alone is still salt . . . I know salty water tastes
like salt, it has salt in it, salt crystals in your hand taste like
salt.

I'm not making this stuff up; you asked, and I enjoy explaining it, but
you can't get a whole chemistry class in a couple of notes so take it a
bit at a time.  An ion is a tiny bit of something that dissolved in
water by splitting off a bit of itself, often a tiny - electric charge,
an electron.  So, would you believe silver will dissolve in water?  

Well, with a little help we can do it; basically a colloidal silver
generator takes some electric charges and runs them out into a silver
wire stuck into some water.  There's another silver wire with the
opposite kind of electric charges in the water too, but the one with the
positive charges attracts one of a silver molecule's negative charges
and somehow convinces that Ion of silver to leave the wire.  Of course
it's not all so simple, sometimes the silver ion turns right around and
sticks back on, sometimes a few of them get out there, get together and
steal some charges from some water and turn back into plain, but very
very small particles of silver.  Those particles are what make the
colloidal part of the deal.

The generators discussed on this list are mostly of the kind that do
this with electricity; it seems to be the best way, and the colloidal
silver made with them is actually part Ionic - silver ions - and part
particulate.  And if the particles are small, and most of them are, they
are said to be colloidal which means they are SO small they won't even
settle out to the bottom in the water.  

Generally you get about eighty percent ionic silver and twenty percent
colloidal silver in a batch.  Both are just fine!

All for now, remember to take care of yourself!
Malcolm



On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 21:10 -0500, Mary Ellen Murphy wrote:
 I still do not understand yet the difference between Ionic and collodal
 silver.  Between all the people who know what they are talking about to a
 newcomer all it is is jibber jabber.  I still don't have clue what the
 difference is and which machine make ionics and which make colloidal.  I
 would love just someone to give to me in laymans terms without all the...I
 guess arguing.  Could someone help.  I have read and read and you guys just
 have me lost.
 
 I appreciate the info but I don't think anyone has said which is ionic and
 which is colloidal.
 
 Thanks
 Mary Ellen



--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com

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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic

[Ode Coyote]

  Ionic silver is what comes off the electrodes in EVERY generator that 
uses electrodes in water.
After that forms a mix of colloids made *from* those ions [and inevitable 
anions ] consisting of silver oxides, silver hydroxide and  metallic silver 
in varying somewhat tweekable proportionsalong with, the ionic silver 
that remains ionic.


The only difference between this generator and that generator is how the 
process is tweeked to favor this something over something else forming 
later and where.  Bricks are bricks, it's how they get stacked that makes 
buildings look different.
If nothing has a control to control it, that's just that much less tweeking 
that can be done.


PS  I went from having 1-3 cavities a year to 2 repairs in 9 years.
In fact, 3 watch spots simply stopped progressing for 3 years before the 
dentist got tired of watching them do nothing and filled them on GP


I've given much CS to people who have chronic plaque problems...er..make 
that had plaque problems.

 Within 2 weeksGONE, without exception.
 Add to that Several people who just don't get cold sores... any more.
 My very first generator sale went to one of those people who got cold 
sores all the time..and..unsolicited amazement.
 Not only did they heal faster than when anything else was used, not only 
did timely application prevent emergence...after a while they became a 
thing of vague memory.
 Neither of us had any idea how well CS worked for that, reconfirmed over 
and over again in times hence as others tried it.


Ode

Ode


At 08:33 AM 12/23/2007 -0800, you wrote:
Hi there... I've been a member of the list for several years now, but I 
must admit I don't read many of the posts. I have been brewing CS for many 
years with my SG7 and I have been offering to my friends mason jars full 
of my brew as a token of our friendship. The funny thing is people keep on 
coming back with amazing stories- especially dental related. Anyway, 
although I have been making this stuff for years, I am not sure what I am 
making. Can someone fess up and tell me if the small CS makers (SG7) are 
actually making Colloidal Silver or Ionic Silver??


According to all the small CS device manufacturers, it is colloidal, but 
you go to the people who are selling proprietary mixtures, they state that 
the home units only make Ionic. I have never found any information that 
conclusively states what I am making. Whatever it is it works, but again, 
I'd like some (financially) disinterested parties to rectify whether it is 
CS or IS. and possilbly explain the difference. And while you are at 
it, can you also explain what Mild Silver Protein is and how it is related.



Thanks


Rick


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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic- mold illness cold sores

[Clayton Family]

On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:53 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:




I've given much CS to people who have chronic plaque 
problems...er..make that had plaque problems.

 Within 2 weeksGONE, without exception.
 Add to that Several people who just don't get cold sores... any more.
 My very first generator sale went to one of those people who got cold 
sores all the time..and..unsolicited amazement.
 Not only did they heal faster than when anything else was used, not 
only did timely application prevent emergence...after a while they 
became a thing of vague memory.   Neither of us had any idea how well 
CS worked for that, reconfirmed over and over again in times hence as 
others tried it.


Ode




I was getting cold sores again that would not go away with cs, and I 
had worked up to maybe 1/2 cup or more a day. Then I found the water 
leak and consequent mold under the sink. I stopped the cs (down to a 
tiny amount in the evening), started some other supplements, and began 
some detoxing. The cold sores have gone away, and stayed away, which 
indicates I am not being exposed to the mold directly.


With mold induced illnesses, the cold sores just do not go away, but 
you will not get a cold or the flu.


Since I have just started to catch a cold, I am one happy camper!  That 
means I am throwing off the mold illness, and that there is probably 
not more hiding. I hope not.  I have again started to up my CS intake.


There has been some recent news that my neighborhood has VOC's 
percolating up through the ground and accumulating in basements. The 
EPA even came in and tested the 2 schools nearby.  That may be an issue 
with my house and health too. I do have chemical sensitivities which 
are known to be caused by over exposure to chemicals and can go along 
with mold illness, so I have been told.




--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic- mold illness cold sores

[Dan Nave]

I think you should get one of those sodium chlorite and clay 
bags called Mildew Odor Controller bags and put one under 
your sink.  They are activated by moisture, and the cupboard 
should keep the chlorine dioxide contained in that space and 
kill the mold and oxidize the toxins.


Dan

Clayton Family wrote:


On Dec 24, 2007, at 5:53 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:




I've given much CS to people who have chronic plaque 
problems...er..make that had plaque problems.

 Within 2 weeksGONE, without exception.
 Add to that Several people who just don't get cold sores... any more.
 My very first generator sale went to one of those people who got cold 
sores all the time..and..unsolicited amazement.
 Not only did they heal faster than when anything else was used, not 
only did timely application prevent emergence...after a while they 
became a thing of vague memory.   Neither of us had any idea how well 
CS worked for that, reconfirmed over and over again in times hence as 
others tried it.


Ode




I was getting cold sores again that would not go away with cs, and I had 
worked up to maybe 1/2 cup or more a day. Then I found the water leak 
and consequent mold under the sink. I stopped the cs (down to a tiny 
amount in the evening), started some other supplements, and began some 
detoxing. The cold sores have gone away, and stayed away, which 
indicates I am not being exposed to the mold directly.


With mold induced illnesses, the cold sores just do not go away, but you 
will not get a cold or the flu.


Since I have just started to catch a cold, I am one happy camper!  That 
means I am throwing off the mold illness, and that there is probably not 
more hiding. I hope not.  I have again started to up my CS intake.


There has been some recent news that my neighborhood has VOC's 
percolating up through the ground and accumulating in basements. The EPA 
even came in and tested the 2 schools nearby.  That may be an issue with 
my house and health too. I do have chemical sensitivities which are 
known to be caused by over exposure to chemicals and can go along with 
mold illness, so I have been told.




--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

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Re: CSColloidal vs Ionic- mold illness cold sores

[Clayton Family]

Well, the cabinet has been removed, so there is no more mold there, at 
least that I have been able to find.


Does it smell like chlorine? If it does, I wil not be able to tolerate 
it. I do not do well with bleach.  It might work, if it was tolerated.


On Dec 24, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Dan Nave wrote:

I think you should get one of those sodium chlorite and clay bags 
called Mildew Odor Controller bags and put one under your sink.  They 
are activated by moisture, and the cupboard should keep the chlorine 
dioxide contained in that space and kill the mold and oxidize the 
toxins.


Dan

Clayton Family wrote:



--
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CSColloidal vs Ionic

[lightson]

Hi there... I've been a member of the list for several years now, but I 
must admit I don't read many of the posts. I have been brewing CS for 
many years with my SG7 and I have been offering to my friends mason jars 
full of my brew as a token of our friendship. The funny thing is people 
keep on coming back with amazing stories- especially dental related. 
Anyway, although I have been making this stuff for years, I am not sure 
what I am making. Can someone fess up and tell me if the small CS makers 
(SG7) are actually making Colloidal Silver or Ionic Silver??


According to all the small CS device manufacturers, it is colloidal, but 
you go to the people who are selling proprietary mixtures, they state 
that the home units only make Ionic. I have never found any information 
that conclusively states what I am making. Whatever it is it works, but 
again, I'd like some (financially) disinterested parties to rectify 
whether it is CS or IS. and possilbly explain the difference. And 
while you are at it, can you also explain what Mild Silver Protein is 
and how it is related.



Thanks


Rick


--
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RE: CSColloidal vs Ionic

[bob Larson]

...from the usual EIS/CS generators it's usually about 85% ionic, the rest
particulate.  the particulate part is what some call the colloidal.  others
say the ions are the smallest possible particles, and by definition it's all
colloidal.

mild silver protein is a carrier other than water used to keep particles
suspended in solution and not fall to the bottom and collect.  it allows a
much higher PPM of particles to stay in suspension, but also is known to be
capable of growing bacteria in the solution if contaminated even while the
silver is in it, probably because the silver is dispersed so there's room
for the bacteria to feed on the protein stuff without being in contact with
the silver.  that's what i recall from what i've read anyway.

 -Original Message-
 From: light...@ltol.com [mailto:light...@ltol.com]
 Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 11:34 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: CSColloidal vs Ionic


 Hi there... I've been a member of the list for several years now, but I
 must admit I don't read many of the posts. I have been brewing CS for
 many years with my SG7 and I have been offering to my friends mason jars
 full of my brew as a token of our friendship. The funny thing is people
 keep on coming back with amazing stories- especially dental related.
 Anyway, although I have been making this stuff for years, I am not sure
 what I am making. Can someone fess up and tell me if the small CS makers
 (SG7) are actually making Colloidal Silver or Ionic Silver??

 According to all the small CS device manufacturers, it is colloidal, but
 you go to the people who are selling proprietary mixtures, they state
 that the home units only make Ionic. I have never found any information
 that conclusively states what I am making. Whatever it is it works, but
 again, I'd like some (financially) disinterested parties to rectify
 whether it is CS or IS. and possilbly explain the difference. And
 while you are at it, can you also explain what Mild Silver Protein is
 and how it is related.


 Thanks


 Rick


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