[Sursound] ffmpeg 7.0 and Ambisonic how to use ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/blob/master/libavutil/channel_layout.h

There is a mention of Ambisonics in this file in several places.

I have had succes to encode ambisonic files without the LFE channel in AAC,
this for FOA and TOA,.
Now i want to also do it for SOA 9 and also for mixed format with 10 and 12
channels AAC.

I have done it with Opus but it is not supported on all common platforms.

Is there any ffmpeg guru out there who can help?

BR
Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm

Https://www.ohti.xyz
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20240506/54f95e25/attachment.htm>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] [Proposal] for HOA web-streaming-format

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

If interested you can take quick look at what can be done with a
modified version of omnitone for playback in a browser with different
encodings.
Headtracking is possible.

The decoder setup for each file decoding is controlled by a json file.

I apologize in advance for the left right error ( to be corrected).

Different encodings and codecs to try to find the optimum combination.

No channel names are used, and care has to  be taken to avoid LFE bandwidth
cut when encoding.

The implementation has somtimes buffering issues, but take your time to
fill the cache for a few of the files.

The software still needs a bit of work,
Dash and HLS can be added.

This supports foa,soa and toa with the addition of mixed formats.

https://www.ohti.xyz

BR
Bosse




On Tue, 2 May 2023, 14:12 Steven Boardman, 
wrote:

> I agree that ATMOS delivery is more efficient, (stream size wise) but as
> mentioned, it isn't great for anything other than theatres, despite what
> Dolby and the rest of the bandwagon would like you to believe.
> There is no below after all.
> For non visual ATMOS delivery I purposely make separate static binaural
> mixes, that are derived from native ambisonic/SPS mixes (rather than the
> ATMOS binaural downmix).
> So when an ATMOS decoder isn't present, the native binaural mix is served
> up instead.
> These are generally preferred(I also do my stereo mix from the original
> rather than an ATMOS downmix).
> And as for audio mastering of the object based delivery, you can't, so most
> separate stereo mixes i have heard sound better.
> If a spatial 'scene' delivery is required, then maybe just use SPS, as that
> should be more tolerant of compression ratios than Ambisonics..
>
> Just my $0.01
>
> Steven
>
>
> On Mon, 1 May 2023, 22:05 Fons Adriaensen,  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, May 01, 2023 at 06:03:09PM +, Thorsten Michels wrote:
> >
> > > If a lower order is streamed, the other channels will be left empty,
> with
> > > digital "0", meaning absolutely NO signal. So the decoders can
> recognize
> > it
> > > and provide the correct decoding.
> >
> > That is in-band signalling, and a bad idea for many reasons.
> >
> > > The order of the channels will be as follows:
> >
> > Why define speakers positions if the format is Ambisonic ?
> > It's up to the receiver to decode it, using whatever speaker
> > positions it has available.
> >
> > The speaker positions you propose would not even support
> > a full third order decode.
> >
> > Apart from that, high order ambisonics is not an efficient
> > delivery format. It's OK for up to 2nd order or so, maybe
> > 3rd, but above that an object based format (e.g. Atmos)
> > can provide much better performance for the same channel
> > count.
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > --
> > FA
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20230502/541df563/attachment.htm
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] FLAC and max number of channels

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

We use webaudio api and a modified omnitone.
We use up to third order and can play wav, aac-lc and opus on most
platforms.

We have thought to use multitrack mp4/m4a with 2 × 8 channels with libfdk
heAAC which is the best available AAC-He codec for private persons , but it
also have a 8 channel limit.

The fetch and audio buffer is handled as they are in the mp4 container.

But we do not have the knowledge to write the code to use WAAPI transport
functions, and feed them into the decoder.

We use the built in os codecs for all platforms.

IOS has the most limitations.

Bosse




On Mon, 1 May 2023, 03:03 Panos Kouvelis,  wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> So, FLAC cannot support more than eight channels, even in an Ogg container.
>
> Bosse, if you want to play back HOA through the web, wouldn't you use the
> Web Audio API or an ambisonics library based on the Web Audio API?
> Something like the JSAmbisonics?
>
> If that is the case, you are lucky because you can fetch multiple
> 8-channel FLAC files, sync them with the WAAPI transport functions, and
> feed them into your decoder.
>
> After all, streaming more than eight audio channels is generally not
> readily accepted in browsers. Splitting the material into multiple
> 8-channel files synchronized on the playback engine is the logical thing to
> do.
>
> Is that helpful?
>
> Cheers!
>
> *Pan Athen*
> SoundFellas , *MediaFlake Ltd
> *
> Digital Media Services, Content, and Tools
>
>
> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 2:44 AM Marc Lavallée  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gabriel,
>>
>> Le 2023-04-30 à 19 h 04, Gabriel Wolf a écrit :
>> > Hi Panos, Hi Marc,
>> >
>> > just a side note... some years ago read of the *.caf format.
>> >
>> > Its no smaller than wav, but aside of this fact - wouldn't it be a
>> > perfect choice for (long) ambiX content?
>> >
>> > Back then it wasn't possible to use it outside of the appleversum.
>>
>> CAF is a container, not a codec.
>>
>> AmbiX adopted CAF. So you are correct, it's a good choice.
>>
>> > In the meantime things changed and it can be read by FFMPEG and
>> Reaper...
>>
>> WavPack can also also be read and written by FFMPEG and Reaper.
>>
>> I also got tired of waiting for the inclusion of WavPack to libsndfile,
>> so I rebased an old pull request and I use it for personal projects:
>>
>> https://github.com/marclava/libsndfile/tree/wavpack-rebase
>>
>> I made a pull request too, hoping that the libsndfile team will care:
>> https://github.com/libsndfile/libsndfile/pull/928
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> > Best,
>> > Gabriel
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] FLAC and max number of channels

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Can someone comment on the double message i think i find in the spec?

There is a the specification of max number of channels in stream info
chapter 8.2

u(3)   | (number of channels)-1.  FLAC supports from 1 to  |
  || 8 channels.


In chapter 8.6.2

A WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MASK field of 0x0 can be used to
   indicate that none of the audio channels of a file correlate with
   speaker positions.  This is the case when audio needs to be decoded
   into speaker positions (e.g.  Ambisonics B-format audio) or when a
   multitrack recording is contained.


.

What does this mean?

Is it that ambisonics cannot be streamed in second or third order with flac?


In todays widebandwith internet this feels a bit too restrictive, is
it a Dolby business thing?


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-flac/

Any information or ideas about this?

Bosse Sandholm
Ambisonics hobbyist.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The   problem for us with ambisonics is in most cases we do not have any
visual reference to confirm or adjust the acoustic  cues to any reference.

There exists papers showing that the we humans locks in to visual cues and
our experience and allows vision to win.

Bo-Erik



Den lör 31 dec. 2022 16:04Chris Woolf  skrev:

>
> On 30/12/2022 18:33, brian.k...@sorbonne-universite.fr wrote:
> >  It must be repeated that our auditory system adapts to our own
> local changes, in clothing, hair style, etc. and we are not significantly
> thrown off by such things (at least after adaptive listening for a bit).
> ions, view archives and so on.
>
> Great to see that mentioned.
>
> It has always struck me that we can indeed adapt remarkably quickly to
> local changes in our personal HTRF, and that therefore this needs to be
> considered as a dynamic affair, rather than a purely static one.
>
> If you suffer a temporarily blocked ear - after swimming, say - your
> stereo perception may be bent out of accuracy for a few minutes, but the
> (extreme gain/frequency  inaccuracy gets accounted for within our brains
> and we soon find visual and aural alignment back more or less correctly.
>
> Likewise putting on wooly hat, a coat with a thick collar, or a heavy
> scarf - all objects that should wreck the accuracy of a static HTRF -
> have only the most limited of effects on positional accuracy.
>
> So how much precision is really needed for an HRTF? And how inaccurate
> can it be for our normal correction ability to deal with it?
>
> Chris Woolf
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF? (Joseph Anderson)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As a amateur I had a idea that I could use a CIPIC HRTF but I did not find
an easy way to select one that had any chance to be a a good fit for me.

In my naivity I hoped for at least skull diameter and som pictures of ear
shape.

But maybe it is much harder than that.

Bo-Erik / Bosse

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 23:24 Sampo Syreeni,  wrote:

> On 2022-07-14, Braxton Boren wrote:
>
> > Also, a reminder that the CIPIC HRTFs are all available (in SOFA
> > format) on the SOFA Conventions website:
> >
> > https://www.sofaconventions.org/mediawiki/index.php/Files
>
> For once something beyond the age old KEMAR thingies. Thank you.
> Profusely!
> --
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
> +358-40-3751464 , 025E D175
> ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Hi Lorenzo
I have FOA recordings of sweeps from a very good listening room that i want
to use as a virtual binaural listening room for commersial music.

I have responses for stereo, virtual center and back channels for 5.1

Is it possible to use your VSTs for such a setup?
Any tips on how to do it if so.

Bosse

On Sun, 18 Sept 2022, 11:11 Picinali, Lorenzo, 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I can advertise our binaural 3D Tune-In Toolkit, which exists also in the
> form of VST plugin (as well as standalone application, Unity and Javascript
> wrappers). You can just create one instance of the plugin for every output
> track, and spatialise that in the position where the loudspeaker should be.
> We have a version of the plugin with reverb, which is easy to use but
> rather heavy from the computational point of view, or an anechoic version,
> with a bus reverb, which is definitely more efficient - in the downloads
> you will be able to find a template Reaper project which shows how to setup
> the anechoic and bus reverb plugins.
>
> An example of the functionalities of the Test Application can be found in
> this video (use headphones when listening) - the VST plugin creates of
> course the same spatialisation effect.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osJQ0Kxv1P0
>
> The Test Application (the one you see in the video above) is available for
> MacOS, Windows and Linux at the following link:
>
> https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/releases/latest
>
> At the link above, you can also download the VST plugin, both for MacOS
> and Windows, as well as the Unity wrapper.
>
> If interested, you can find some details about the 3DTI Toolkit spatial
> audio implementation in this paper:
>
> https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0211899
>
> And the open source code is available from the GitHub account:
>
> https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit
>
> If you have a chance to come around in the London area, we can measure
> your HRTF so that you can use that for your mixes - just get in touch!
>
> best
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Lorenzo Picinali
> Reader in Audio Experience Design
> Dyson School of Design Engineering
> Imperial College London
> Dyson Building
> Imperial College Road
> South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
> E: l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk
>
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali
> https://www.axdesign.co.uk/
> 
> From: Sursound  on behalf of Ralph Jones <
> rjonesth...@comcast.net>
> Sent: 18 September 2022 01:51
> To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to binaural
>
>
> ***
> This email originates from outside Imperial. Do not click on links and
> attachments unless you recognise the sender.
> If you trust the sender, add them to your safe senders list
> https://spam.ic.ac.uk/SpamConsole/Senders.aspx to disable email stamping
> for this address.
> ***
> I’m a composer, not a mathematician, so while I try, I don’t get very far
> at understanding discussions like this. But the subject is of real concern
> for me, because I am currently working in 5.1.4 surround format
> (channel-based, not Atmos) and I would dearly love to find a mac-compatible
> VST plugin that would convincingly render my work in binaural. So, is there
> a plugin that does what Fons describes here? (i.e., given azimuth and
> elevation for each channel, render the signals to binaural convincingly,
> including an impression of elevation for height channels.)
>
> Ralph Jones
>
> > On Sep 13, 2022, at 9:00 AM,Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:59:49 +0200
> > From: Fons Adriaensen 
> > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] about principled rendering of ambisonic to
> >binaural
> > Message-ID:
> ><20220913135949.ugwflytibwa7p...@mail1.linuxaudio.cyso.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >
>
> [Snip]
>
> > Another question is if for high quality binaural rendering, starting from
> > Ambisonic content is a good idea at all.
> >
> > Simple fact is that if you want really good results you need very high
> > order, and
> >
> > 1. such content isn't available from direct recordings (we don't have
> even
> > 10th order microphpones), so it has to be synthetic,
> >
> > 2. rendering it from an Ambisonic format would be very inefficient. For
> > example for order 20 you'd need 441 convolutions if you assume L/R head
> > symmetry, twice that number if you don't.
> >
> > Compare this to rendering from object encoded content (i.e. mono signals
> > plus directional metadata). You need only two convolutions per object.
> > Starting from a sufficiently dense HRIR set, you can easily generate a
> > new set on a regular grid with a few thousand points, and interpolate
> > them (VBAP style) in real time. This can give you the same resolution
> > as e.g. order 40 Ambisonics at fraction 

Re: [Sursound] Which microphone system to choose?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Try to borrow a Zylia ZM-1 or any other higher order ambisonic mic, this
gives you third order b-format.

Converting to other formats works better than first order.

When I feel comitted to be sure and get it right I record tetracycline foa
and spaced omnis on a 6 track tascam dr-680 recorder and a Zylia ZM-1 for
my laptop.


Bo-Erik




Den mån 8 aug. 2022 23:54Thorsten Michels  skrev:

> Hi all!
>
> At the end of August I will be in the IBM Mainframe research lab and I
> was granted the great honor and permission to do some recordings of the
> following devices:
>
> Mainframes: IBM Z 14, IBM Z 15 and the brandnew Z16. As this wouldn't be
> enough, I will get a few minutes to record the IBM Quantum computer. (no
> joke!)
> So this is a "one-shot-only-single-chance" and I would like to make as
> much as possible out of it.
>
> My first idea was to use my native Ambix-B-format microphone setup. This
> would give me the greatest flexibility, right?
> But a few weeks ago I did a recording on a historical marketplace with
> it and additionally with my "real-head-binaural" (Roland CS-10EM)
> in-ears microphones.
>
> The blackbirds in the tree above I can very clearly and precisely
> localize with the Rolands, but not with the AmbiX-B-format. What a
> disappointment!
> So, this is a "checked" for the realhead-binaural system.
>
> But what would you choose to record these machines?
> a) native AmbiX-B-format microphone system
> b) double M/S
> c) regular ORTF
> d) regular XY
> e) some combinations? (please choose)
>
> I just bought some contact microphones, just for fun. Let's see where
> this will get us. :-)
>
> But what would you choose? And always be aware of this is a unique and
> real "once-in-a-lifetime" chance
>
> Any oppinion, advice, dos or donts, hints ... please be frankly and
> open. I hearitly appreciate ANY of your support; as I am running in
> circles and can't get to a decision.
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance!
>
> Cheers
>
> Thorsten
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics with AirPods head tracking

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As long as you can get the headphones directions via OSC you can use it to
control a webpage with a ambisonic played decoder and rotation via osc.

In worst case you could need a osc to osc plugin to parse the syntax.

ww.ohti.xyz has a osc controlled player for local or web based ambisonic
files.

http://www.ohti.xyz/2021/original.html is a work in progress, we hope to
change
the decoder from omnitone.

Bo-Erik


Den ons 5 jan. 2022 17:33Dylan Marcus  skrev:

> > On Jan 5, 2022, at 1:26 AM, Hannes Helmholz 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-01-04 20:49, Dylan Marcus wrote:
> >> Here is an example app we made when this was introduced:
> https://github.com/Mach1Studios/M1-AirPodOSC <
> https://github.com/Mach1Studios/M1-AirPodOSC>
> >> This app just shows how to access the orientation and send it to any
> host via OSC, feel free to use and fork however you like.
> >> We also have some iOS examples of this being applied to spatial audio
> playback via our SDK: https://github.com/Mach1Studios/Pod-Mach1SpatialAPI
> 
> >> You could even modify our “mach1-transcode-example” to playback FOA
> (transcoding to our Mach1 Spatial vector channel based format and using
> Mach1Decode to play it back).
> >>
> https://github.com/Mach1Studios/Pod-Mach1SpatialAPI/tree/master/Examples/mach1-transcode-example/mach1-transcode-example
> <
> https://github.com/Mach1Studios/Pod-Mach1SpatialAPI/tree/master/Examples/mach1-transcode-example/mach1-transcode-example
> >
> >> ——
> >> When it comes to using the orientation from AirPods, we are happy with
> the performance and access via the CMHeadphoneMotionManager, however this
> is limited when distributing an app that uses it (read below). As it comes
> to how the orientation is used in “Apple’s Spatial Audio” we are EXTREMELY
> unhappy, you can read about that in detail here:
> >> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/feedback-on-apple-spatial-audio/ <
> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/feedback-on-apple-spatial-audio/>
> >> And
> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/observations-and-limitations-of-apple-spatial-playback-implementation/
> <
> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/observations-and-limitations-of-apple-spatial-playback-implementation/
> >
> >> It should be noted that we have been doing tests of creating open
> source example codebases to allow artists/labels distribute spatial music
> via an iOS app until common music services support more spatial audio
> playback. We have been met with a lot of pushback from Apple which we have
> been tracking here:
> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/submitting-spatial-music-apps-to-ios-app-store/
> <
> https://research.mach1.tech/posts/submitting-spatial-music-apps-to-ios-app-store/
> >
> >
> > Hey Dylan, thanks a lot for your helpful answer here, as well as the
> code contributions and nice documentation on your research blog.
> > BTW, it would be even nicer to have the publishing / update dates of the
> individual posts made visible in the blog. :)
>
> Adding the dates and last modified dates as we speak! Thank you for the
> feedback!
>
> > It's awesome to see the industry contribute to the community some
> detailed development insights as well as your practical experience with
> comparing the different currently available ways to achieve "spatial audio".
> > Keep up the fight for the customer ... apparently against Apple! ;)
>
> Thank you! We have spent so much time demystifying “spatial audio” from
> creation to development that we decided it would benefit everyone to share
> all our experiences so that we can get stronger uses and creative content
> for all kinds of “spatial audio” faster, in the end we are users just as
> much as developers and have been so excited about what we have been able to
> do in “spatial audio” that we want to hear what others do too!
>
> Feel free to reach out anytime with any questions or suggestions, we are
> working hard on an SDK and tools that make multichannel audio more
> approachable and simpler.
>
> All the best,
> Dylan
>
>   340.29 m / s
>
>   Dylan Marcus
>   Technical Director
>   A Sound Technology Company.
>   New York New York
>   The United States of America.
>   www.mach1.tech
>
>   Defenders of the Audio Realm™
>
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220105/bfe3336d/attachment.htm
> >
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: M1_EmailLogo_transparent_300w.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 6857 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220105/bfe3336d/attachment.png
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>

Re: [Sursound] the facebook group

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Search functions in facebook groups is useless, at least in my opinion.
I have great problems to find info that I remember having seen earlier on
facebook.

Discussion forums are much better if they they have a good search function.

Bo-Erik


On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 15:46 Marc Lavallée,  wrote:

> A sursound FB group would be sad news.
> I'm against social medias since 2004;
> reading their fine prints before registration
> should enough to scare away any decent soul.
>
> Marc
>
> Le 2022-01-01 à 23 h 19, Sampo Syreeni a écrit :
> > Hi. How about if you all also join the Facebook-group, corresponding
> > to this one? Because it'd be nice as always... ;)
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220102/2acc951f/attachment.htm
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Matroska (was: ALAC (was Re: WavPack (was: Re: Ambix files)))

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

 SN3D  against N3D

As I  am a naive user and do not remember all intricate details of
Ambisonics file formats I recently made the mistake to increase the gain
for a recording when converting from 24 bit floats to 16 bit samples to
minimize file size for web distribution.

This made for a bad experience when listening to the file with Omnitone,
bad clipping distortion.

I had about 6 dB headroom in b format file but that is not enough珞

Bo-Erik
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] WavPack (was: Re: Ambix files)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

That was a lot of information, I  was only thinking of distribution to
end-users on the web.

It would save a bit of volume in comparison to wav.


This is the current state of ohti,
We are to add more buttons for routing of mixed order Ambisonics, the
channel routing can be edited before playback.
I am waiting for Roger to fix it, but he has just bought a new condinium...

http://www.ohti.xyz/2021/original.html



Den sön 23 maj 2021 12:38Fons Adriaensen  skrev:

> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:15:48PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>
> > In the document, "Universal Ambisonic" is described to work with WavPack.
>
> "Universal Ambisonic" is as dead as can be, and that's probable the
> best that could happen to it. It was precisely a desire to get rid
> of ill-conceived 'standards' like this that motivated the design of
> the Ambix format. Which is also what everybody uses today.
>
> As an audio file format Wavpack is rather primitive. It could be
> useful as a format for content delivery to the end user, but for
> production it is pretty useless.
>
> AFAIK, you can convert .wav, .caf and others to Wavpack and back
> again, but only the audio data is preserved. Both WAVEX and CAF
> support a lot of other data as well.
>
> Wavpack was considered by the Ambix designers as a way to cater
> for unused channels (like for horizontal-only AMB). These would
> simply be set to all zeros and compressed to only a few bytes.
>
> But the matrix based method was chosen in the end as a better
> alternative that also offered other functionality.
>
> The reason why CAF was chosen was that it was (and still is) the
> cleanest and most versatile format available.
>
> CAF has several advantages:
>
> * 64-bit filesize, no problem with long multichannel files exceeding
>   the size limit.
>
> * Support of 'user' extensions. CAF is a 'chunked format' (like WAVEX),
>   and it also supports UUID [1] chunks, extensions that are identified
>   using a 128-bit unique identifier. These can be used without needing
>   approval or registration by Apple. Any software that doesn't know
>   how to interpret a particular UUID chunk should just ignore it.
>   Thus users can extend the format in a way that is future proof and
>   that will never be in conflict with other extensions. This is how
>   the Ambix 'extended format' is implemented and why it requires CAF.
>
> * No history of unofficial variations and extensions with all the
>   resulting fragility.
>
> Now compare that to what happened with the WAV format. The original
> WAV specs where quite ambiguous in some respects, and also lacked
> functionality. So various unofficial and mutually incompatible
> vendor extensions started to appear, and pretty soon a .wav file
> created by software X could not be used by software Y.
> More than 20 years ago Microsoft decided the clean up the resulting
> mess and created the WAVEX format. Since then, every .wav file that
> has more than 2 channels or uses more then 16 bit resolution has to
> use the WAVEX format. But there are still a lot of defective WAV
> files around, and WAVEX has no way to add UUID chunks as in the
> CAF format (they could be added easily, but that has not happened).
>
>
> Ciao,
>
>
> [1] 
>
> --
> FA
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] WavPack (was: Re: Ambix files)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=119143.0

Quick google gives me a the impression it could be made to work on many
platforms.
It is better than flac for Ambisonics due to the 8 channel limit in flac.

Bosse

Den sön 23 maj 2021 00:16Marc Lavallée  skrev:

> Le 21-05-22 à 06 h 21, Fons Adriaensen a écrit :
> > So all you need is a library to read/write .wav and/or .caf files,
> > e.g. libsndfile.
> Maybe WavPack could be promoted for Ambisonics (and Ambix)? There's
> preliminary support for (lossless) WavPack in libsndfile, not yet merged
> in the official repo; I successfully tried it yesterday evening. There's
> already support in FFMPEG and Gstreamer.
>
> > A document describing this can be found at
> > <
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266602800_AMBIX_-A_SUGGESTED_AMBISONICS_FORMAT
> >
> In the document, "Universal Ambisonic" is described to work with WavPack.
> For more info:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20131219123618/http://soundofspace.com/static/make_ua_file
> http://decoy.iki.fi/dsound/ambisonic/motherlode/source/ua09.pdf
>
> Marc
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Suitable headphones for monitoring binaural (Gernot von Schultzendorff)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Good loudspeakers for stereo do not have the same response curve as a
monospeaker, as the sum of the 2 stereo speakers need to produce the stereo
image that should have a linear psycho acoustic frequency response.

Den tor 25 juni 2020 11:34Augustine Leudar 
skrev:

> That's nice to hear seeing as that is what I am using and they are very
> accurate measuring very flat and fast spectral decay at all frequencies
> more neutral than the HD650 or HD800. They are certainly my first choice of
> headphones for mixing normal audio. However I guess the requirements of
> binaural may be slightly different to normal stereo mixing and certainly
> hifi listening. At least that's what I'm trying to assess at the moment. So
> for mixing stereo you might choose Ns10m ((definately not flat) Genelec,
> Atc whatever for mixing but for mastering you would choose Bowers and
> Wilkins, Dunlavy, larger speakers generally. The applications for mixing
> and mastering being slightly different. So I wonder if it's the same for
> headphones. A listening test which assessed subject localisation in 3d
> space comparing the same audio over various headphones would seem to be the
> best way to resolve this. A large enough sample size should override the
> differences between individual HRTFs. What you say about diffusivity is
> interesting though I don't know how you could test for that.
>
>
> On Thursday, 25 June 2020, Gernot von Schultzendorff <
> g.schultzendo...@saalakustik.de> wrote:
>
> > The spatial reproduction of localization cues as they are used in common
> > perception tests is only one aspect when it comes to the question of how
> > well headphones are able to represent 3-dimensional spatiality. From my
> > point of view it is even more important how headphones are able to
> > reproduce diffusivity, because appropriate and meaningful diffusivity
> > recognized by the perceptual system of the listener directly influences
> the
> > overall quality of what is perceived. What is meant is the perceptual
> > phenomenon that makes the listening experience in very good concert
> halls a
> > very special one. This is a matter of holistic diffusivity, not local
> > diffusivity, the latter making a single sound source appear less sharply
> > defined. Holistic diffusivity can be experienced directly in good concert
> > halls by switching between a place that is cut off from the diffusivity
> > field (most often under the balconies) and a "good" listening place
> during
> > the interval - sometimes it is already enough and makes t
> >  he comparison especially striking to simply sit down 2 rows further
> > ahead. There are worlds between the two listening experiences.
> >
> > Such holistic diffusivity which is not uniform but highly structured
> seems
> > to be largely under the radar of acoustic and perceptual sciences, and,
> as
> > far as I know, it is also hardly ever discussed in the audio field.
> >
> > Already with stereo music recordings, it is usually an essential sound
> > aesthetic goal for me to make this kind of diffusivity effective to the
> > listener even within the highly limited context of the stereo format.
> These
> > recordings are mixed over loudspeakers, but with the occasional use of
> > headphones I always choose the Sennheiser HD600. Also and especially with
> > binaural mixes (HOA 3rd order) I haven't listened to any better suited
> > headphones so far. Without wanting to judge what the technical background
> > for this is, the described "holistic" spatial reproduction of these
> > headphones has been extremely successful. It is the main reason why it
> > seems to be the most common tool used by audio professionals involved in
> > binaural mixing (it was also used, besides the entries here in the forum,
> > for the binaural remixes of old Kraftwerk recordings).
> >
> > Best
> > Gernot
> >
> >
> > > Am 24.06.2020 um 18:00 schrieb sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu:
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:48:53 +0200 (CEST)
> > > From: Brian KATZ 
> > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Suitable headphones for monitoring binaural
> > >   compositions
> > > Message-ID:
> > >   <969745703.37859639.1592992133215.JavaMail.zimbra@
> > sorbonne-universite.fr>
> > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > >
> > >   "it would interesting to see if there are any papers/listening
> > tests which have
> > > tested lovcalisation with HRTFs and different types of headphones - are
> > > there any ?"
> > >
> > > Here is at lest 1 study that I am familiar with:
> > >
> > > D. Sch?nstein, L. Ferr?, and B. Katz, ?Comparison of headphones and
> > equalization for virtual auditory source localization,? in Acoustics?08.
> 9e
> > Congres Fran?ais d?Acoustique of the SFA. Paru dans : JASA, Vol 123, n?5,
> > (Paris), pp. 1?5, 2008, (
> http://webistem.com/acoustics2008/acoustics2008/
> > cd1/data/articles/001080.pdf).
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian FG Katz, Research Director, CNRS

Re: [Sursound] Release of the Spatial_Audio_Framework

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The webpage is unreadable in chrome on Android, have to read it later on a
computer
Bo-Erik

Den ons 27 maj 2020 13:59McCormack Leo  skrev:

> Dear Sursounders,
>
> I am happy to announce the first official release of the
> Spatial_Audio_Framework!
>
> The framework is written in C, (with cross-platform development in mind),
> and features modules for higher-order Ambisonics encoding/decoding
> (loudspeakers+binaural), VBAP, spherical array processing, sound-field
> visualisation, loading HRIR data from SOFA files, and a number of useful
> utility functions (including: vectorised linear algebra routines, IIR/FIR
> filters/filterbanks, FFT/STFT, matrix convolver); among others.
>
> We initially approached the framework's development from more of a
> research-oriented point-of-view just over 2 years ago. However, recent
> developments have steered it more towards being a general-purpose toolbox
> for developing real-time spatial-audio related applications. (Although, it
> should be noted that we still endeavour to keep-up with recent research and
> aim to incorporate new state-of-the-art methods into the framework as they
> arise).
>
> At Aalto University, we have been using this framework to develop the
> freely available SPARTA and COMPASS VST audio-plugin suites, and also for a
> number of internal projects. However, we are also aware of serval other
> research institutions who are using the framework. Therefore, also given
> the many recent improvements, the addition of comprehensive online
> documentation, (and the increase in the amount of spare time we all seem to
> be experiencing!), we believed that now might be a good time to raise
> awareness of the project with this first official release :- )
>
> The source code can be found here:
> https://github.com/leomccormack/Spatial_Audio_Framework
> While the online documentation can be found here:
> http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/spatial_audio_framework/index.html
>
>
> Enjoy!
> Leo
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20200527/4175b949/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] analog planner

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The Question is it the feel of the controller or no computer involved most
important?

Create a controller or reuse an old one.

Connect an imu to a mechanical controller of our choice :-)

ohti https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI  can be a starting point.

Bno055 as imu.
Using Arduino nano v3 gives usb serial connection.
Esp32 / 8266 can give Wi-Fi, usb or ble connection.

From wish or aliexpress hw cost can be less than 25 £ € very little
soldering is required.

Bosse





Connection device

Den sön 16 feb. 2020 09:07Dan Yotz  skrev:

> I recall once seeing what i think was an eight channel board with quad
> joysticks on each channel ... in the road case it was around 3’x4’x18” and
> weighed 2-300 lbs...   sold for cheap... couldn’t bring myself to buy it
> and carry it around...
>
> Otherwise I’d recommend getting a heavy duty joystick and replacing the
> pots with dual analog tapers
>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Audio - Interactive Installation

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The ohti Projects for a open headtracker has been slow but will hopefully
be updated soon.
It is only for so called 9 degrees of freedom, no position data only
directional info with 2 degrees precision.

Data is currently quaternions over serial communication to control the
omnitone binaural decoder.
The host software written in JavaScript could with a bit of help have the
added functionality to send OSC.
There already exists a library to send OSC for JavaScript.

Den tis 1 okt. 2019 13:11Hector Centeno  skrev:

> Hi Jack,
>
> Yes, I saw those Bose but inertial sensors won't work for precise tracking.
> I've done a lot of arkit/arcore with phones and tablets and it works great
> but I don't want to be looking through a screen with a 2D representation of
> the world while experiencing a sound only environment (unless you strap the
> device to headphones with the camera facing forward, but that would be not
> very convenient).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hector
>
> On Tue., Oct. 1, 2019, 4:18 a.m. jack reynolds,  >
> wrote:
>
> > The new Bose headphones have 6dof tracking, but the accelerometers are
> not
> > terribly accurate, so they are more 3dof really, unless you implement
> ARKit
> > or similar.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 15:29, Hector Centeno  wrote:
> >
> > > I've been wanting to create work in this way for a while now (6DOF
> > > audio-only augmented reality). This audio augmentation is what I found
> > > appealing when I tried the Magic Leap AR headset for the first time
> since
> > > it's very well implemented there (as opposed to the disappointing
> visual
> > > quality). I wish someone will soon produce headphones with 6DOF
> tracking
> > > (will require cameras to perform SLAM). In the meantime, I'm also
> waiting
> > > for Intel to add Android support to their RealSense Tracking Camera
> T265
> > [
> > > https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265 ] which they claim
> > is
> > > on the works. This would allow strapping one of those sensors to a pair
> > of
> > > headphones and running an Android app that does the spatialization (I
> > > agree with Przemyslaw that using a game engine such as Unity or Unreal
> > > would make things very easy, even in this scenario or in a sever based
> > > one).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Hector
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 3:31 AM Przemysław Danowski <
> > > przemyslaw.danow...@chopin.edu.pl> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Michelle,
> > > >
> > > > You could look at game engines like Unreal or Unity, and if you can
> get
> > > > headtrackers send OSC to the engine you will get coordinates for the
> > > > position of the players head. You can use native multiplayer feature
> of
> > > the
> > > > engines. You could employ Kinect camera to trace position of the
> > players
> > > in
> > > > the room.
> > > >
> > > > It would be very easy to implement using VR/AR 6DoF headsets, where
> you
> > > > have room position tracking and headtracking combined and the SDK
> ready
> > > to
> > > > use.
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Przemyslaw Danowski
> > > > Sound Engineering Department
> > > > Fryderyk Chopin University of Music
> > > > mob.+48603700626
> > > > www.chopin.edu.pl 
> > > >
> > > > UMFC VR : virtual exhibition
> > > > http://fb.me/umfcvr 
> > > > > Wiadomość napisana przez Michelle Irving <
> > > > michelle.irv...@soleilsound.com  > michelle.irv...@soleilsound.com
> > > >>
> > > > w dniu 27.09.2019, o godz. 19:22:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm working with an artist who wants to explore Ambisonic Audio
> > > > > and use the Audeze Mobius headphones in an audio installation.
> > > > > The soundscape will consist of recordings of various individual
> > vocals
> > > > > spatialized
> > > > > throughout the "room". There is a video projection overhead. Hard
> > sync
> > > is
> > > > > not required.
> > > > >
> > > > > Questions:
> > > > > 1.Is it possible to exploit the headtracking of the Mobius
> headphones
> > > to
> > > > > give each person and individualized experience of the audio
> > > composition.
> > > > > ie. Person A is in the far left front corner and hearing a
> particular
> > > > voice
> > > > > in close proximity while Person B is in the far back right corner
> > > barely
> > > > > hearing what Person A is hearing?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.If the Answer to 1. is YES - would you recommend using Max/Msp or
> > > > Arduino
> > > > > for configuring hte individual playbacks (mappings between
> headphones
> > > and
> > > > > some sort of player)
> > > > >
> > > > > 3.I've looked at the Waves NX toolkit and I don't see a feature to
> > > > > determine virtual room size?Am I missing something or is there
> other
> > > tech
> > > > > that could allow me to map the headtracker to a specific roomsize?
> > > > >
> > > > > 4.Open to better ideas how to achieve an interactive Ambisonic
> audio
> > > > > soundscape that works with multiple headsets.
> > > > >
> > > > > 

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Audio - Interactive Installation

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://proximi.io/accurate-indoor-positioning-bluetooth-beacons/

Principles and solution för ble localization.

Den sön 29 sep. 2019 16:37Marc Lavallée  skrev:

> Hi Michelle,
>
> A master computer could remotely control portable computers (probably
> phones) to render the sounds using either a customized embedded version
> of the SSR software (http://spatialaudio.net/ssr/), or to play
> personalized binaural streams rendered in real time from the master
> computer using either SSR, Panoramix (from IRCAM) or some other software
> solution (as described in previous answers).
>
> Then there's the question of tracking... For interactive installations,
> the easiest I used was a Kinect (and now there's alternative products).
> The unknown part is how to link one portable computer to a detected
> person; maybe Bluetooth beacons and triangulation could be used to
> detect the computers and report their approximate positions.
>
> Marc
>
>
> Le 19-09-29 à 08 h 45, Daniel Rudrich a écrit :
> > Hi there,
> >
> > it’s indeed very cpu intense. Especially, as each source has to be
> encoded with their reflections.
> >
> > I wrote a VST plug-in called RoomEncoder, which renders a source in a
> shoebox-room, and adds reflections which are also filtered depending on the
> wall absorption and image source degree. Source and listener can be freely
> placed within the room, and the source can also have a directivity which
> can be frequency dependent. The output is higher order Ambisonics. So to be
> played back, all sources for one listener have to be summed up, rotated
> (head-tracking), and binaurally decoded.
> >
> > Several instances of the plug-in can be linked, so if you change the
> room properties in one of them, all of them change. The plug-in renders up
> to 236 reflections, however, a hand full (or two) of them are enough to
> give a convincing room impression. Especially when combined with a FDN
> network. The good thing is, that you’ll need only one FDN network for all
> listeners and sources, so at least this one is not so cpu demanding. The
> FdnReverb plug-in also has a fade-in feature, which helps to not get in the
> way of the early reflections of the RoomEncoder.
> >
> > We used this setup in an interactive audio game, tracked with an optical
> tracking system, logic implemented in PD and rendered with Reaper.
> >
> > Both plug-ins can be found in the IEM Plug-in Suite:
> https://plugins.iem.at . As they are open-source
> you could compile them yourself, to get the most out of your CPU
> architecture you are using e.g. AVX512 SIMD extensions.
> >
> > Best
> > Daniel
> >
> >> Am 29.09.2019 um 14:06 schrieb Dave Hunt  >:
> >>
> >> Hi Michelle,
> >>
> >> I believe that what you want to do is possible, but not easy.
> >>
> >> It is possible to move the listener in a totally synthetic ambisonic
> sound field. You have to build in “distance modelling’, as well as
> differing direction of each source, as the listener moves. Adding room
> simulation or reverberation brings an extra layer of complexity, as the
> nature of the reflected, delayed and diffused sound from each source is
> different at every listening position.
> >>
> >> This soon becomes rather processor intensive. I have made Max patches
> that take this approach, and they do “work”, but there are problems.
> Although basic ambisonic source encoding is mathematically relatively
> simple multiple sources, with multiple reflections, each of which have to
> be encoded, becomes appreciably more involved. Moving sources require
> multiple constant recalculation, preferably at near audio sampling rate.
> Even with just first order ambisonics, this gets pretty demanding to do
> well.
> >>
> >> For what you are proposing, you would have to deliver a unique audio
> stream to each pair of headphones, binaurally encoded to match the position
> of the headphones in the “room”. Thus you need spatial tracking of each
> pair, as well as the head movement data for each. This could control the
> ambisonic encoding and decoding to binaural of each individual headphone
> signal.
> >>
> >> For one listener this already involves a lot of data and processing,
> and at least two wireless transmission channels. For several listeners the
> technology and resources required becomes uneconomic. Currently you would
> probably require a computer for each listener, or possibly a very powerful
> computer or two. Then a lot of programming, engineering and material
> expense.
> >>
> >> Perhaps you would be better considering a loudspeaker based approach ??
> >>
> >> For this it may also be better to consider an amplitude/delay based
> approach (Delta stereophony, or basic wave field synthesis), rather than
> ambisonics.. This is what it appears TiMax, L-ISA, d’s Soundscape, and
> Astro and other similar systems are based on. Again, not easy to do well.
> Not perfect for everything, but then no algorithm is.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ciao,
> >>
> >> Dave Hunt
> >>
> 

Re: [Sursound] Pan Law Irregular Speaker Array

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I suspect that for a slow moving person among stationary sound subjects,
you really have to have perfect pitch to notice the pitch change.
If you have high speed moving objects like cars or trains... the listener
probably can be considered standing still in comparison to the object.

Dependant on where the person is listening from the object might have a
strange movement/sound image.

Bo-Erik

Den ons 28 aug. 2019 14:31Sean Devonport  skrev:

> Sorry, just to expand on that. I think it's interesting to note that the
> doppler shift implies there is a listener that is experienced the effect.
>
> In this setup, using DBAP with delays, we're implying that the loudspeaker
> is acting as a sort of 'listener': i.e, the pitch shift at each speaker
> would be quite different, some speakers possibly dropping in frequency
> whilst others rise.
>
> I'm not sure exactly how this would affect the perception of the moving
> sources or if it would confuse listeners in the space. Something to ponder
> though, and probably requires some rigorous testing. I think it would
> depend largely on the actual loudspeaker setup.
>
> If the resources are available, I'd say a crossfading delay line would be a
> more consistent method of doing the delay changes with DBAP.
>
> --
> Sean Devonport
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190828/103f0527/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Software Oscillator

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

http://tolvan.com/
Look at Tone
A simple Tone generator with a few Good features, also other Good Free
audio program.

Den tor 22 aug. 2019 22:42Jack Reynolds  skrev:

> Or REW is always a good one.
>
> https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 22 Aug 2019, at 21:27, Bill de Garis  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the replies for portable telephones but how about good old
> Win10?
> >
> > Bill (Billy d) de Garis
> > Sound etc
> > d...@shaw.ca
> > 604 469-6015
> >
> > Do not go gentle into that good night,
> > Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
> > Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
> > Dylan Thomas
> >
> >> On 22/8/19 8:22 am, Bill de Garis wrote:
> >> Would someone recommend a free software oscillator for me?
> >> I would like to calibrate my playback system (6.0 flat) cobbled
> together from odds and ends.
> >> I have a high zoot Radioshack sound level meter.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> Do not go gentle into that good night,
> >> Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
> >> Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
> >> Dylan Thomas
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190822/a53fb427/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR: new Facebook users' group

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

A real forum is better than facebook to follow subjects also to search in
and find previous discussions.

At least in my opinion.

I personally find it hard to go back/search and find previous seen messages
in the ambisonics sound related  facebook groups.

I think facebook is most suitable for instant gratification.

Bo-Erik




Den tor 22 aug. 2019 00:16Peter P.  skrev:

> * Jack Reynolds  [2019-08-22 00:02]:
> > Where else?
> On the world wide web with access and archival for everyone without
> sacrificing privacy and possible even democracy [1][2][3][4]. Eg. web
> forums,
> mailing lists, etc. See https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/list for
> examples.
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
> Excellent!
>
> Good luck!
> Peter
>
> [1]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections#Social_media_and_Internet_trolls
> [2]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Privacy
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Political_manipulation
>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Hand Controller

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As long as the hosting server is a  local host websocket server chrome can
open a connection to the server.
At least the version available a month ago.

Den fre 2 aug. 2019 10:28Richard Foss  skrev:

> Hi Justin,
>
> I have described the use of a mobile device controller in the following
> paper that is in the AES e-library:
>
> http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19714
>
> Its a client server system, where the server is a node.js server and a
> browser is used to run client code. This means I can use the Web API
> device orientation capabilities. One frustrating issue is that Chrome
> has recently stopped allowing device orientation access unless the
> server is secure.
>
> Richard Foss.
>
> On 2019/07/26 9:01 PM, Justin Kuhn wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I am looking into making a controller in which I harness roll, pitch, and
> > yaw from my phone or a vr controller for real-time control of the
> > orientation of a soundfield.  I want to hook it up using OSC to Reaper or
> > Supercollider either wirelessly (preferred) or through USB (if I have
> to).
> > I have a few reasons I want to do this.
> >
> >   - I want to do real-time encoding and decoding with a controller that
> can
> > add expressive qualities with my hands for 4.0 performance purposes
> >   - I want to better calibrate binaural playback through traditional
> > headphones for production purposes
> >   - I hope to avoid using a headset for ambisonic production entirely.
> It's
> > so much easier to turn my hand around very quickly than it is to use my
> > head.
> >   - Would make a cool pairing with Wekinator.
> >
> > Has anyone done this, or seen it done?  I'd love some tips and
> suggestions
> > before I get started.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > *Justin Kuhn*
> > 360/VR Video and Audio Production
> > justinkuhnmedia.com
> > Cell  |  828-403-3171
> > He, Him, His
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190726/4239fe96/attachment.html
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> --
> Professor Richard Foss
> Computer Science Department
> Rhodes University
> Grahamstown 6140
> South Africa
>
> Tel: +27 46 6038294
> Cell: +27 83 288 9354
> email: r.f...@ru.ac.za
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] practical HOA encoding

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Sadly, l expect the majority of the spherical video crowd not to notice
anything wrong.

Natural ambience recordings are so rare in todays sound landscape that they
probably think it sounds as it should.

Bo-Erik

Den lör 15 juni 2019 00:07Len Moskowitz  skrev:

> The incredibly wise Richard Lee wrote:
>
> > The 2nd type of source/object are artificial.  HOA is most useful for
> > shoot-them-up games and other virtual reality stuff.  You pan the
> > (mono) bad guy to someplace in your HOA space
> >
> > BUT THIS STUFF CAN USUALLY BE SET AT AN INFINITE DISTANCE SO NO NFC IS
> > REQUIRED
>
>
> This morning, I watched & listened to a Facebook video where the
> designer recorded a large jazz orchestra in a very large concert hall
> (floor seats and two levels of balconies) with a whole bunch of spot
> mics. He then assembled a third-order ambisonic recording. In a way,
> these spot mics are artificial sources. They're mono and panned to
> someplace in HOA space.
>
>
>
> (I'd love to post a link to the video, but the author removed it.)
>
>
> There was a large ~20-piece jazz orchestra on the stage in three rows.
> Two soloists stood at the front of the stage. And a choir sang from the
> second balcony at the left of the stage. As you panned around, it
> sounded great, except...
>
>
> ... the rear row of musicians on the stage (bass guitar, drummer,
> trumpets) all sounded like they were in the front row. The choir in the
> balcony sounded like they were standing behind one of the soloists.
>
> This sounded even more un-natural as you panned around.
>
>
>
> There was no distance compensation at all. And it sounded very, very
> strange. I kept looking for instruments only to find that they weren't
> where I expected them - they were way out there, instead of where I was
> hearing them (which was very close by).
>
>
> I suspect that a big part of the problem was due to the lack of ambience
> in the spot mics. The ambience is a really important cue for distant
> sources.
>
>
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (moskow...@core-sound.com)
>
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of OctoMic and TetraMic
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>

Den lör 15 juni 2019 00:07Len Moskowitz  skrev:

> The incredibly wise Richard Lee wrote:
>
> > The 2nd type of source/object are artificial.  HOA is most useful for
> > shoot-them-up games and other virtual reality stuff.  You pan the
> > (mono) bad guy to someplace in your HOA space
> >
> > BUT THIS STUFF CAN USUALLY BE SET AT AN INFINITE DISTANCE SO NO NFC IS
> > REQUIRED
>
>
> This morning, I watched & listened to a Facebook video where the
> designer recorded a large jazz orchestra in a very large concert hall
> (floor seats and two levels of balconies) with a whole bunch of spot
> mics. He then assembled a third-order ambisonic recording. In a way,
> these spot mics are artificial sources. They're mono and panned to
> someplace in HOA space.
>
>
>
> (I'd love to post a link to the video, but the author removed it.)
>
>
> There was a large ~20-piece jazz orchestra on the stage in three rows.
> Two soloists stood at the front of the stage. And a choir sang from the
> second balcony at the left of the stage. As you panned around, it
> sounded great, except...
>
>
> ... the rear row of musicians on the stage (bass guitar, drummer,
> trumpets) all sounded like they were in the front row. The choir in the
> balcony sounded like they were standing behind one of the soloists.
>
> This sounded even more un-natural as you panned around.
>
>
>
> There was no distance compensation at all. And it sounded very, very
> strange. I kept looking for instruments only to find that they weren't
> where I expected them - they were way out there, instead of where I was
> hearing them (which was very close by).
>
>
> I suspect that a big part of the problem was due to the lack of ambience
> in the spot mics. The ambience is a really important cue for distant
> sources.
>
>
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (moskow...@core-sound.com)
>
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of OctoMic and TetraMic
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Tetracal - calibrating A->B conversion for Røde NT-SF1 mic?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Could it be  TLS encryption? not working?

Den ons 5 juni 2019 kl 14:09 skrev David Pickett :

> Here is what I got. This one comes from Norway. I
> have had others recently from France.
>
> D
>
> >Delivered-To: d...@fugato.com
> >Received: from river.yodns.com
> > by river.yodns.com with LMTP id ONGdKweB91xA9wIAk8KXXg
> > for ; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 01:44:55 -0700
> >Return-path: 
> >Envelope-to: d...@fugato.com
> >Delivery-date: Wed, 05 Jun 2019 01:44:55 -0700
> >Received: from mx1.yodns.com ([209.73.133.132]:54468)
> > by river.yodns.com with esmtps
> > (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256)
> > (Exim 4.91)
> > (envelope-from )
> > id 1hYRXT-000oYt-LV
> > for d...@fugato.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 01:44:55 -0700
> >Received: from [128.173.232.139] (helo=mail.music.vt.edu)
> > by mx1.yodns.com with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1)
> > (envelope-from )
> > id 1hYRZf-000F8B-Rx
> > for d...@fugato.com; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 01:47:14 -0700
> >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> > by mail.music.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA749D3D4C5;
> > Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:55 -0400 (EDT)
> >X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mydomain = music.vt.edu
> >Received: from mail.music.vt.edu ([127.0.0.1])
> > by localhost (server.music.vt.edu
> > [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
> > with ESMTP id PfSQmhUlXvjd; Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:54 -0400 (EDT)
> >Received: from server.music.vt.edu (localhost [IPv6:::1])
> > by mail.music.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0729D3D4AA;
> > Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:52 -0400 (EDT)
> >X-Original-To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >Delivered-To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> >  by mail.music.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C332E9D3D483
> >  for ; Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:50 -0400 (EDT)
> >X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mydomain = music.vt.edu
> >Received: from mail.music.vt.edu ([127.0.0.1])
> >  by localhost (server.music.vt.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port
> 10024)
> >  with ESMTP id A-BoVCnAKLQC for ;
> >  Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
> >Received: from blaine.gmane.org (unknown [195.159.176.226])
> >  by mail.music.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8894E9D3D47C
> >  for ; Wed,  5 Jun 2019 04:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
> >Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89)
> >  (envelope-from ) id 1hYRZA-I9-L0
> >  for sursound@music.vt.edu; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 10:46:40 +0200
> >X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
> >To: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >From: anders.vin...@bek.no
> >Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2019 10:46:32 +0200
> >Message-ID: <87woi0l8rb@bek.no>
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux)
> >Cancel-Lock: sha1:6pv36RAF+4qpC84V3/Ndd0g33vU=
> >Subject: [Sursound] Tetracal - calibrating A->B conversion for
> >   Røde  NT-SF1 mic?
> >X-BeenThere: sursound@music.vt.edu
> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1
> >Precedence: list
> >List-Id: Surround Sound discussion group 
> >List-Unsubscribe: ,
> >  
> >List-Archive: 
> >List-Post: 
> >List-Help: 
> >List-Subscribe: ,
> >  
> >Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >Errors-To: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu
> >Sender: "Sursound" 
> >X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you
> >should still use an Antivirus (209.73.133.132)
> >X-Exiscan-SA-Score: -2.4 (--) (209.73.133.132)
> >X-Exiscan-SA-Report: SpamAssassin 3.3.2, running on 209.73.133.132
> >  -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED  RBL: Sender listed at
> https://www.dnswl.org/,
> >  medium trust
> >  [128.173.232.139 listed in list.dnswl.org]
> >  -0.9 BAYES_00   BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
> >  [score: 0.]
> >   0.0 SPF_NONE   SPF: sender does not publish an SPF Record
> >   0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE  SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record
> >  -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list
> >  manager
> >   0.8 RDNS_NONE  Delivered to
> > internal network by a host with no rDNS
> >   0.0 RCVD_NOT_IN_IPREPDNS   Sender not listed at
> >  http://www.chaosreigns.com/iprep/
> >   1.0 KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY Sending domain does not have any
> >  anti-forgery methods
> >
> >here]
> >
> >!ÖÞŠ{^­ë-yÛhrœ’Ø^µëkiÆ¥²‡íÁªÞ¶‹¶ê_Š[^®Æ§v¢žÇè®ëŠpr‰ïz»"¢z¶¬Š
> >Ú•ú虤xuãSH]f‰Ì…«Þ…êÞ!Ƨµø§u7­­§•©hž"¶az‹az·hÂyhiÛ¶J$’)âÎ+Z­)îÅ«
> ŠŠ+€‹"µ«ÚŠV›•ë(™ì!z·€Ÿ*'yélyÚ'zØb³­†Ø^Šº0 

Re: [Sursound] Speaker array advice

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

What about a listening platform so your head height is at 2.5 meter.
Then 3 rings with 8   12   8 speakers?
And the middle ring at 2,5 meter?

Couldn't be a closer to a ideal?



Den mån 3 juni 2019 15:00Augustine Leudar  skrev:

> I guess you could have 12 first ring, 8 second, 4 third and one eye of god.
> We localise worse directly ove rour heads anyway so to many speakers at the
> very top are a biut of a waste.
> Also it depends if you only want to use ambisonics or not.
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 11:35, Tom Slater  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I’m looking for some advice on speaker speaker set ups as we’re moving
> > studio so have the perfect opportunity to rethink our current array.
> >
> > At the moment we have 25 x Genelec 8030s and 2 x Genelec 7050 subs.
> >
> > Our current array is 3 x rings of 8 speakers. First ring at floor level,
> > second at head height, third at 4 meters. The 25th speaker is in the
> center
> > of the ceiling. The two subs are at opposite ends of the room.
> >
> > Our new space measures 6.5m X 7.5m X 5m high.
> >
> > We plan to place our workstation in the centre of the space. And we use
> > Blue Ripple Rapture 3D Advanced as our primary decoder.
> >
> > Any thoughts or advice on alternative arrays with this amount of speakers
> > will be greatly appreciated. Especially if anyone has any experience in
> > using more speakers on horizontal plane and fewer for elevation?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Tom
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190603/205e14ac/attachment.html
> > >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
> +44(0)7555784775
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190603/74a15b65/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Ready to buy ... Li-Fi for outdoor data communications

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/leds-ssl-design/article/16701732/forget-lighting-this-lifi-is-for-outdoor-data-communications-only
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hyunchae_Chun/publication/259889506_A_3-Gbs_single-LED_OFDM-based_wireless_VLC_link_using_a_gallium_nitride_m_LED/links/577cd2f708ae355e74f2b06d/A-3-Gb-s-single-LED-OFDM-based-wireless-VLC-link-using-a-gallium-nitride-m-LED.pdf

3 Gb/s on common led...
I Don't get the hu?

Li-Fi is a coming standard for high bandwidth local light based network.

Bo-Erik


Den lör 1 juni 2019 19:11David Pickett  skrev:

> Eh?
>
> D :)
>
> At 19:01 01-06-19, you wrote:
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64Optical digital
> >bandwidth using LED as a transmitter is without problem 1+
> >Mbit/s.
> >
> >Different designs have differet limits.
> >
> >B
> >
> >Den lör 1 juni 2019 13:49David Pickett  skrev:
> >
> > > At 11:14 01-06-19, Chris Woolf wrote:
> > ˆ•Ú[H[™K[Ù‹\ÚYÚ\ÈH[Z]][ÛˆH]™H™Y[€ impressed by how
> > > Ù[ÛÛ™™\™[˜ÙH˜[œÛ][ÛˆÞ\Ý[\Èusing IR headphones have worked
> >š[ˆ˜XÝXÙK[™Ø[ˆ@magine that a little planning and elevation
> >˜ÛÝ[Ý™\€come this issue.
> > ˆY\Ë ]Û ›Ü™Ù]\È\ÈÜYXÚ. THough probably better than
> > > 400-4kHz bandwidth it is usually compressed.
> > ˆ]\ÚXÈÛˆHÝ\ˆ[™‚ ‚ ˆH\Àed to have some expensive
> >IR headphones made by Sennheiser and
> > > they were terrible. That was, however, at least 25 years ago. Does
> > > anyone know of high quality IR linked headphones without compression?
> > > I would find them very useful when I am editing audio, as I always
> > > tripping over my headphone cable.
> > >
> >]šY ‚ ˆ××À
> >Ý\œÛÝ[™XZ[[™È\Ý‚7prso...@music.vt.edu
> >΋ËÛXZ[›]\ÚXË  ™YKÛXZ[X[‹Ûistinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >‹KH™^\€t --
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL:
> ><
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190601/9811751a/attachment.html
> >
> >___
> >Sursound mailing list
> >Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
> >- unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Optical digital bandwidth using LED as a transmitter is without problem 1+
Mbit/s.

Different designs have differet limits.

B

Den lör 1 juni 2019 13:49David Pickett  skrev:

> At 11:14 01-06-19, Chris Woolf wrote:
>
> >While line-of-sight is a limitation I have been impressed by how
> >well conference translation systems using IR headphones have worked
> >in practice, and can imagine that a little planning and elevation
> >could overcome this issue.
>
> Yes, but dont forget, this is speech. THough probably better than
> 400-4kHz bandwidth it is usually compressed.
>
> Music on the other hand.
>
> I used to have some expensive IR headphones made by Sennheiser and
> they were terrible. That was, however, at least 25 years ago. Does
> anyone know of high quality IR linked headphones without compression?
> I would find them very useful when I am editing audio, as I always
> tripping over my headphone cable.
>
> David
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://fmarques.org/ronja-diy-optical-data/
If you want to diy instead of buying, seems like a complete design.

Optical distribution of data/digital sound.



Den fre 31 maj 2019 21:22Bo-Erik Sandholm  skrev:

> Line of sight is necessary, but there is no bandwidth issues.
> 10 years ago I  built a simple IR link kit for 16bit 44.1 kHz.
>
>
>
> Den fre 31 maj 2019 15:30Chris Woolf  skrev:
>
>>
>> On 28/05/2019 13:34, David Pickett wrote:
>> > ...
>> > I tell myself that it should not be too difficult to make decent
>> > hi-res transmit and receive modules. I could use these for links from
>> > spot mikes in concerts where these have to pass the audience to get to
>> > the recorder, and also between my monitor output and the four speakers
>> > I use. Getting rid of cables from the ground would be terrific in both
>> > situations; but I am not prepared to accept any degradation of the
>> > signal, particularly not any modification of the dynamic range.
>> >
>> Has anyone looked into IR distribution systems? I know Shure has one
>> that is multichannel capable, and as far as I can see can handle full
>> bandwidth (uncompressed) audio. Being able to avoid the crowded RF
>> spectrum allows considerably greater freedom. The only spec I can find
>> doesn't mention dynamic range or latency but there's no reason to
>> suppose that either are compromised.
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Line of sight is necessary, but there is no bandwidth issues.
10 years ago I  built a simple IR link kit for 16bit 44.1 kHz.



Den fre 31 maj 2019 15:30Chris Woolf  skrev:

>
> On 28/05/2019 13:34, David Pickett wrote:
> > ...
> > I tell myself that it should not be too difficult to make decent
> > hi-res transmit and receive modules. I could use these for links from
> > spot mikes in concerts where these have to pass the audience to get to
> > the recorder, and also between my monitor output and the four speakers
> > I use. Getting rid of cables from the ground would be terrific in both
> > situations; but I am not prepared to accept any degradation of the
> > signal, particularly not any modification of the dynamic range.
> >
> Has anyone looked into IR distribution systems? I know Shure has one
> that is multichannel capable, and as far as I can see can handle full
> bandwidth (uncompressed) audio. Being able to avoid the crowded RF
> spectrum allows considerably greater freedom. The only spec I can find
> doesn't mention dynamic range or latency but there's no reason to
> suppose that either are compromised.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] wifi audio (was Re: Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Distribution to speakers using UDP multicast of a multichannel stream could
possibly make the only time difference between channels be eventual
receiver buffering.

Just speculation...

Bo-Erik

Den ons 29 maj 2019 22:32Paul Hodges  skrev:

> --On 29 May 2019 19:53 + "mgraves mstvp.com" 
> wrote:
>
> > But for a signal sent by such a link, latency hardly matters if the
> > signal is to be mixed later with other microphones (perhaps the
> > ambisonic mic) that are fed directly, as the tracks can easily be
> > aligned in the DAW!
>
> This discussion started with loudspeakers, though.  My concern with
> wi-fi latency when multiple links are required to multiple speakers
> would be that the latency will not be consistent between channels.
> Although buffering will keep the data flow going, there is no way to
> ensure that the buffering in each data stream is near-enough the same
> as required for phase accuracy.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul Hodges
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301482315_Improving_Indoor_Localization_Using_Bluetooth_Low_Energy_Beacons

This is from 2016 , I belive there have been progress since then...
So we can get localisation info, next step ?

Bo-Erik

Den tis 28 maj 2019 kl 10:56 skrev Richard Dobson :

>
>
> On 28/05/2019 08:49, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> > wow :
> >
> .. It would be great if someone could
> > just invent bluetooth quad (or more)  then you could happily just deposit
> > four cable free bluetooth speakers around the room and be done with all
> > this nonsense.
> >
> ...
> Slightly a propos to this: in his 2000 "Millennium" article in JAES,
> Andy Moorer proposed "In 20 years, loudspeakers and microphones will
> know where they are". How are we doing with that, with one year to go?
>
> Richard Dobson
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Deconstructing soundbar marketing B.S.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The Speakers won't be wireless as you probably want them to be powered.

But it should be easy with bluetooth 4.0 or Wi-Fi direct to create a
solution.

Normal Wi-Fi could be used.
The low cost esp8266 makes this possible in a diy setup...

Stream a 4 channel audiostream to the 4 speakers.
Have a switch on each speaker to select which channel it will playback.

Could possibly be solved by streaming 2 stereo channels on 2 different ip
ports over WiFi instead. 

Bo-Erik



Den tis 28 maj 2019 09:50Augustine Leudar  skrev:

> wow :
>
> https://youtu.be/KrVGTqRftKY
>
> Problem is as most engineers know the result of room reflections is
> generally comb filtering not increased spatialisation. Even if you could
> somehow get this to work the time of the reflections would depend on room
> size, the materials on the wall etc etc. It would be great if someone could
> just invent bluetooth quad (or more)  then you could happily just deposit
> four cable free bluetooth speakers around the room and be done with all
> this nonsense.
>
> On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 08:38, Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
> > Thats interesting - ive always wanted to hear transaural actually working
> > - I've only tried Spat. However this would require the content producers
> > (sound designers) to actually add HRTFs and use software to render
> > trnasaural filters the same as binaural - and most d not , genrally its
> > just the same stereo content used on two speakers produced over a
> soundbar.
> > Even a soundbar isnt intelligent enough to decide which sounds should
> > appear where, marvelous though they are.
> >
> > On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 01:55, Aaron Heller  wrote:
> >
> >> The soundbars I've heard sound like they use crosstalk cancellation (aka
> >> transaural stereo) to achieve surround effects. I believe the work of
> >> Edgar
> >> Choueiri and his students at Princeton represents the state of the art
> in
> >> that area.
> >>https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/index.html
> >>
> >> Also Ralph Glasgal, an occasional poster on sursound --
> >> http://www.ambiophonics.org
> >>
> >> Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com)
> >> Menlo Park, CA  US
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 4:43 PM Augustine Leudar <
> >> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Douglas -
> >> > I dont think he was referring to Atmos soundbars just Atmos in
> general .
> >> > Atmos will of course work nicely being a 9.1 (or is it 11.1 ?) bed
> with
> >> > objects operating  within that over an unlimited number of speakers
> (or
> >> is
> >> > it 128 max)  - as such its true surround (in that the speakers od
> >> actually
> >> > surround the litener);  .
> >> > However its not particularily innovative in that it combines stuff
> thats
> >> > been around for years -  (ambisonics can decode to different speaker
> >> arrays
> >> > from one file for example and I assume the objects move around using
> >> > amplitude panning). Then youve got things like DBAP which have the
> >> > potential to create far more convincing 3D audio scenes that ATMOS and
> >> > thats been around a lot longer.
> >> > But no here we just refer to soundbars in general I think. I find it
> >> very
> >> > unlikely though that an "ATMOS" soundbar would give the impression of
> a
> >> > sound being behind the listener than a basical quad setup where there
> >> > actually are two speakers behind the listener.
> >> > I agree  placebo definately plays a role in a lot of spatial audio.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, 27 May 2019 at 22:00, Douglas Murray 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > > On May 27, 2019, at 12:09 PM, mgraves mstvp.com <
> mgra...@mstvp.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > See also Dolby Atmos. Yet another triumph of marketing over
> reality.
> >> > > Dolby is especially good in that arena.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Michael Graves
> >> > >
> >> > > Michael,
> >> > >
> >> > > Are you referring to the Dolby Atmos sound bars and ceiling bouncing
> >> > > speakers? If so I agree. But as a film sound designer, I don’t
> believe
> >> I am
> >> > > succumbing to marketing hype when I say that Dolby Atmos in a cinema
> >> > > setting, with its full range surrounds and speakers in what were
> gaps
> >> near
> >> > > the screen, is a real improvement over other earlier surround
> formats
> >> for
> >> > > cinema. Clearly Dolby is trying to generate profits from the mass
> home
> >> > > market rather than only from the small cinema world. It’s probable
> >> that
> >> any
> >> > > sound bar, whether “Atmos” or not, will be an upgrade for whomever
> >> buys
> >> it,
> >> > > so happy customers, even if the hype is not lived up to. Maybe it’s
> >> the
> >> > > placebo effect that makes these things work?
> >> > >
> >> > > Doug Murray
> >> > > ___
> >> > > Sursound mailing list
> >> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> >> here,
> >> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Decoding first order ambisonics on higher order decoders?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Which decoder configuration for FOA and TOA in to binaural is the best?
Any references?

Bo-Erik

Den ons 15 maj 2019 07:20Fernando Lopez-Lezcano 
skrev:

> On 5/14/19 6:56 PM, Aaron Heller wrote:
> > Hi Sean,
> > The problem with feeding first-order program material into a third-order
> > decoder is that the per-degree max_rE gains will be wrong.
> >  For 2D: 1, 0.707 vs. 1, 0.924 (, 0.707, 0.383)
> >  For 3D: 1, 0.577 vs. 1, 0.861 (, 0.612, 0.305)
>
> Maybe you could expand on what perceptual effect that has? [*]
>
> Even better would be graphs that show how the soundfield is distorted by
> doing that. I don't remember seeing something like that, but maybe you
> have a reference...
>
> > I'll also point out that for first-order program material, listening
> tests
> > show that dual-band decoding and NFC filters make a substantial
> difference.
> > Still important at third-order, less so for fifth-order and above.  See
> > http://www.ai.sri.com/~heller/ for further details.
> >
> > We're planning a new set of HOA listening tests on CCRMA's new 56-speaker
> > array.
>
> Party party!
> -- Fernando
>
> [*] in my experience piping first order through a third order decoder
> sounds "reasonable" (I have done it, mea culpa), that is, until you use
> a proper first order decoder for the same speaker array with the same
> materials - then it sounds better.
>
>
>
> > On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM Sean Devonport <
> rsdevonport1...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey there everyone,
> >>
> >> Want to ask if anyone has any thoughts on decoding first order
> ambisonics
> >> to higher order decoders?
> >>
> >> I've been experimenting with decoding first order on third order
> decoders
> >> and I still feel like they work relatively well in my setting (a
> >> hemispherical dome-like configuration of 14 speakers using AllRAD maxRE
> >> decoders).
> >>
> >> I do know there is some upmixing software in the works (
> >> http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/compass_vsts/), but so far,
> >> unfortunately, I haven't been too happy with the quality of it (however
> I
> >> do really like the other plugins in SPARTA). Maybe I'm not using it
> >> correctly but I find the upmix generally comes out too sharp.
> >>
> >> I'm hoping someone may have experimented a bit more with this and could
> >> give me their opinions, tips, tricks, or point me in the direction of
> some
> >> research that could give me a solid answer.
> >>
> >> Many thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sean Devonport
> >> -- next part --
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190514/ee0e2bde/attachment.html
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190514/38c97712/attachment.html
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Waves NX5

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have bought the waves head tracker and software, I am unable to install
the software on my most powerful pc, support was not helpful.

The headtracker protocol is secret so headtracker is useless for other
software.

So I have not used it...

Not recommended 


Bosse

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:09 Eero Aro  Hi All
>
> I haven't noticed if there has been discussion in Sursound about the
> Waves NX5
> virtual room plugin.
>
> I happened to bump up with the NX 5 last week when I was teaching a
> group of artists
> to use surround sound in their works. They were all using laptops and
> headphones.
> We could provide 5.1 loudspeaker monitoring just for a few people at the
> same time.
>
> https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx#introducing-nx-virtual-mix-room
>
> I had never tried NX 5 before. I downloaded and installed it and used it
> for the five days
> trial period. I have always been pretty sceptical about virtual room
> listening through
> headphones, but the NX 5 kinda works for me. It worked so well, that I
> actually made
> a three minutes test mix with it in 5.1 surround sound for video.
>
> I always have difficulties in localizing any phantom images in the front
> sector, the same
> happened with the NX 5. Having said that, the sound image does localize
> outside the
> head and on the sides and behind the directional localization is quite
> good.
>
> NX 5 has head tracking, and surprisingly it works quite well even with a
> built-in laptop
> camera or a simple USB camera. Waves is also selling a Bluetooth head
> tracker,
> which costs as much as the software.
>
> You cannot use your personal HRTF curve set, but you can feed in two
> strategic head
> measurements. You can also select a headphone EQ from a short list of
> some studio
> class headphones. It is possible to tailor the virtual speaker layout.
>
> The head tracking is a bit slow, but if you accept that, it works quite
> well.
>
> I noticed that I had more use of the virtual listening for 5.1 than for
> a two channel
> stereo. In both of these I think that it is better to have the head
> tracking on than to have
> it disabled.
>
> I didn't have time to try NX 5 with Ambisonics. There is software for
> that also.
>
> Anyone else have experience about this plugin?
>
> Eero
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I converted / rendered files in Reaper, In to  Opus, but a lot of other
media formats are available.

What file format do you have in the caf container?

Bosse



Den mån 14 jan. 2019 03:11 skrev Marc Lavallée :

> Le 2019-01-13 à 8:20 p.m., Stefan Schreiber a écrit :
> > Spatial media metadata not only for Youtube:
> >
> > https://github.com/google/spatial-media
> >
> >
> https://github.com/google/spatial-media/blob/master/docs/spatial-audio-rfc.md
> >
> >
> > However, what is the source for HOA metadata? I am not sure that there
> > is anything “official” around here...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> Thanks, but the injector doesn't work on caf files:
>
> python2 spatialmedia ~/Music/AJH_eight-positions.caf
> Processing: /home/marc/Music/AJH_eight-positions.caf
> Unknown file type
>
> The question remains: how to convert amb files to ambix files with the
> required metatada for VLC3?
>
> Marc
>
> > - - -
> >
> > Citando Politis Archontis :
> >
> >>> On 13 Jan 2019, at 22:08, Bo-Erik Sandholm 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Angelo Farina has created a metadata "injector" to make ambisonic
> >>> work in
> >>>
> >>>  VLC.
> >>>
> >>>  I think he described it it a posting in the ambisonic 360 VR audio
> >>> facebook
> >>>
> >>>  group
> >>
> >> Actually, the standard “spatial media metadata” injector provided by
> >> Google (the one for preparing Youtube 360 videos) worked for me with
> >> FOA ambiX in VLC.
> >>
> >>  For 3rd-order files however there is a modified version of Google’s
> >> one around, which I’m pretty sure Prof. Farina has.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Archontis
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190114/d8cfb1e2/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Angelo Farina has created a metadata "injector" to make ambisonic work in
VLC.
I think he described it it a posting in the ambisonic 360 VR audio facebook
group

Bo


Den sön 13 jan. 2019 19:27 skrev Politis Archontis <
archontis.poli...@aalto.fi>:

> Hi Marc,
>
> I believe it expects the “spatial media” metadata to be written in the
> file for VLC to interpret it as ambisonic.
> It worked for me in the past. Yes, it’s a shame that it is completely
> undocumented, especially since it was advertised as one of the cool new
> features of VLC 3.
>
> The decoder is also possible to playback 3rd-order AmbiX files, with a
> more convoluted process. With a bit of digging I realized VLC uses a fixed
> decoder with 27 loudspeakers, the 20 on the vertices of a dodecahedron, and
> 7 more on the horizontal plane. I was able to replace the stock HRTF
> filters for these directions coming with VLC, with a hand-crafted SOFA file
> of own HRTFs, with good results.
>
> Archontis Politis
>
>
> On 13 Jan 2019, at 20:00, Marc Lavallée  m...@hacklava.net>> wrote:
>
> Le 2019-01-13 à 12:58 p.m., Marc Lavallée a écrit :
>
> I installed VLC (3.0.6 Veritani) on my Linux laptop
>
> Oops, I meant "Vetinari"...
>
> Marc
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190113/9b5c6593/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/AudioDestinationNode

Destination channel numbers can be as many as soundcard outputs !
So yes there is nothing stopping us from having multichannel outputs from a
web audio implemented in JavaScript..

Bosse


On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 09:58 Bo-Erik Sandholm 
> As far as I understand there is nothing stopping us to access a
> multichannel soundcard from the browser.
>
> To Marc, there is nothing else than the html competence and time that
> stops us from using Omnitone or JSAmbisonics to produce websites with
> Ambisonic content.
>
> I think with the www.ohti.xyz, this is produced with faint memories of a
> html course in the end of the eighties and googling shows this.
>
> The thing that I have not been able to figure out is how to create a
> interface for creating playlist or a GUI for a directory at files for click
> and play.
>
> The VLC supports ambix coded soundfield, there is somwhere a multimedia
> version in the works that will make it possible to use headtracking
> according to the VLC main developer.
>
> Bosse
>
>
>
>
>> - -
>>
>> > Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural
>> > listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple
>> > with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> Why would you not be able to decode ambisonics to a speaker array (for
>> example 4.0 or 5.1), <  from a browser >?
>>
>>
>> Maybe this is no common option yet today, but why not in the future?
>>
>> If a browser is able to support 5.1 (stereophonic surround), decoding
>> of ambisonics to some 5.1 system should actually be no problem. (via
>> WebAudio)
>>
>> The usual way to support decoding of ambisonics (only) to binaural is
>> because the normal application case of ambisonics is nowadays to be
>> some “ audio track” for VR or 360° video.
>>
>> Right?!
>>
>> I don’t think this is just an abstract discussion, by the way. Maybe
>> such decoding functions could added to Omnitone, for example?
>>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190113/31a26327/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As far as I understand there is nothing stopping us to access a
multichannel soundcard from the browser.

To Marc, there is nothing else than the html competence and time that stops
us from using Omnitone or JSAmbisonics to produce websites with Ambisonic
content.

I think with the www.ohti.xyz, this is produced with faint memories of a
html course in the end of the eighties and googling shows this.

The thing that I have not been able to figure out is how to create a
interface for creating playlist or a GUI for a directory at files for click
and play.

The VLC supports ambix coded soundfield, there is somwhere a multimedia
version in the works that will make it possible to use headtracking
according to the VLC main developer.

Bosse




On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:01 Stefan Schreiber  Citando Marc Lavallée :
>
> > Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :
> >
> >> At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:
> >>
> >>> What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a
> >>> "standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player
> >>> could play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio
> >>> streaming web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something
> >>> similar to what audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take
> >>> for granted. What went wrong with surround sound in general is
> >>> still a mystery to me... But there's hope.
> >>
> .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  But I am always ready to be corrected!
>
> - -
>
> > Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural
> > listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple
> > with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).
>
> - - -
>
> Why would you not be able to decode ambisonics to a speaker array (for
> example 4.0 or 5.1), <  from a browser >?
>
>
> Maybe this is no common option yet today, but why not in the future?
>
> If a browser is able to support 5.1 (stereophonic surround), decoding
> of ambisonics to some 5.1 system should actually be no problem. (via
> WebAudio)
>
> The usual way to support decoding of ambisonics (only) to binaural is
> because the normal application case of ambisonics is nowadays to be
> some “ audio track” for VR or 360° video.
>
> Right?!
>
> I don’t think this is just an abstract discussion, by the way. Maybe
> such decoding functions could added to Omnitone, for example?
>
> There are strong indications that support for surround sound is
> getting stronger, finally. We might be able to help a bit, via feature
> request and own solutions.
>
> Best regards
>
> Stefan
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190113/928ddd8e/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

These are links to the videos I have taken the sounds simple from, Angelo
Farina has published many videos with TOA soundtracks.

They are interested only in the jump-videos directory.


http://www.angelofarina.it/Public/Jump-Videos/Corde-Vocali/Jump-3rd-order/

http://www.angelofarina.it/Public/Jump-Videos/Choir-Cathedral-June2017/Jump-Inspector-TOA/

Bosse
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I improved my test / demo site www.ohti.xyz today.

I added the demo for Omnitone SOA and TOA playback, with drag and drop an
rotation, local file playback.

It works in Chrome on my 3 year old Lenovo yoga tablet 2.

The examples I have there is 16 channel 24 bit TOA encoded in opus.

The server is somwhere in Germany  I think.

By the way VLC supports Ambisonics in the Facebook format (I think).

Bosse



On 12 Jan 2019 21:52, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:

Le 2019-01-12 à 3:03 p.m., David Pickett a écrit :

> At 20:33 12-01-19, Marc wrote:
>
>> What seems to be still missing (but I could be wrong), is a
>> "standard" standalone ambisonics audio player. If such a player could
>> play and decode ambisonics audio streams (hosted on a audio streaming
>> web site), then it'd be an excellent start. Something similar to what
>> audio streaming is for stereo, and that we take for granted. What
>> went wrong with surround sound in general is still a mystery to me...
>> But there's hope.
>
> If I understand you correctly, the idea is to stream WXY (to keep it
> simple) and have this decoded in the browser, rather than 4.0
> directly. This seems to me to be akin to using M files rather than
> L It involves a further layer of complication at the client end,
> and I am not sure of the advantage, other than it reduces data
> bandwith by 25%; but bandwidth is surely not a problem these days.
>
> But I am always ready to be corrected!

Decoding in the browser would be for casual use, mostly for binaural
listening, but decoding to speaker arrays would be nice, for exemple
with 5.1 system (as a 4.1 system with a square or rectangular setup).
Decoding from a desktop (or mobile) app would be a better start, like in
the good old days of "helper apps" for the first web browsers. I guess
that ambisonics support could be added to VLC or Volumio, or a custom
multi-platform app. Internet radio stations exists because stereo
streams can be played on any audio player that can connect to the
Internet, so the same could be done for ambisonics. Is it just wishful
thinking?


Marc


___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://m.facebook.com/groups/930534953740795?view=permalink=1822239041237044


In the above Facebook link, discussion there is links to ffmpeg binaries to
use for aac encoding, also parameters needed for making 8 fullbandwidth
encoded channels.

Bevare of channel ordering, I guess the resulting order is LRC   as
standard instead of LCR in the first 3 channels.

Bosse



On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:54 Paul Hodges  --On 10 January 2019 22:44 +0100 David Pickett  wrote:
>
> > I agree. But it seems that the only way I have of making aac mp4
> > files is to make them 5.1.
>
> I use Wavelab, but that's expensive. Richard Dobson's MCTools suite pf
> programs would enable one to remove the unneeded channels and set an
> appropriate channel mask.
>
>
> > Which browsers have you tested, Paul? How does one set up a browser
> > to recognise 4.0?
>
> In Windows: IE, Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Opera.  The point is that they
> all use the Windows default audio output, which can be set up to be
> multichannel with a range of layouts - and Windows will do the most
> appropriate mixing to match the channels between the input and the
> available speakers.  Once set up it all just works.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Paul Hodges
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Publishing music in ambisonics

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

If your take a look at www.ohti.xyz you can listen to  toa files played
back in chrome browsers.

The conversion is done in chrome or a some other brovsers.

The binaural conversion is done by Omnitone and JSAmbisonics.

Both projects can be found on github.

I have not done much more than taking their code and adapting it slightly
with new demo examples.

My  goal is to present an open solution with headtracker hw and player for
FOA,soa and toa Ambisonics.

If anyone has JavaScript expertise in creating media players and something
like 10 to 20 hours to offer we could be done.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm

The so


Den tor 10 jan. 2019 22:45 skrev David Pickett :

> At 21:47 10-01-19, Paul wrote:
>
> >I replace a stereo file with a four-channel file (why waste bandwidth
> >on empty channels?).
>
> I agree. But it seems that the only way I have of making aac mp4
> files is to make them 5.1.
>
> >   My files are decoded to a square ("quad") speaker
> >layout, and play just fine in any browser on a system with correctly
> >set up multichannel audio.
>
> Which browsers have you tested, Paul? How does one set up a browser
> to recognise 4.0?
>
> With 5.1 Firefox and Chrome need no setting up for 5.1, and I assume
> that non-technological people wanting to listen to the files would prefer
> that.
>
> David
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190111/eb37090a/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Passive small speaker advice

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Second hand KEF eggs, It should be possible to get sets of 5 for around 100
- 200 pounds.

Search for KEF egg speakers on eBay.co.uk

Bosse

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:41 Bruce Wiggins  ..just looked at the price of the Genelec Ones...definitely
> wouldn't be able to get many of them! ;-)
>
> KEF LS50s look very promising :-)
>
> PCMs (we actually got hold of the flying moles, years ago, as we knew PMC
> used them..they are good, too!) - not sure these are flyable very
> easily..
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> cheers
>
> Bruce
>
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 19:34, Steven Boardman 
> wrote:
>
> > I second any Genelecs too!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > On 9 Jan 2019, at 19:04, Jack Reynolds 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Genelec The Ones if you can stretch to it.
> > > Jack
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190109/d65dafa5/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>

On 9 Jan 2019 20:41, "Bruce Wiggins"  wrote:

..just looked at the price of the Genelec Ones...definitely
wouldn't be able to get many of them! ;-)

KEF LS50s look very promising :-)

PCMs (we actually got hold of the flying moles, years ago, as we knew PMC
used them..they are good, too!) - not sure these are flyable very
easily..

Any other suggestions?

cheers

Bruce

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 19:34, Steven Boardman 
wrote:


> I second any Genelecs too!
>
> Steve
>
> > On 9 Jan 2019, at 19:04, Jack Reynolds 
> wrote:
> >
> > Genelec The Ones if you can stretch to it.
> > Jack
> >
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190109/d65dafa5/attachment.html
>

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://rawgit.com/GoogleChrome/omnitone/exp-opus-multichannel/examples/hoa-player.html
you can use this experimental player to test if local HOA AmbiX files can
be played on a RPi3 !
If it works, the OHTI headtracker should also work.

Bo-Erik

Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 20:57 skrev Bo-Erik Sandholm :

> Our OHTI should work on a RPi 3, I think very little additional work is
> needed on our project to get/verify streaming to work.
>
> Hope you can work with us, we want our project to be fully open.
>
> Bo-Erik
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 20:11 Jörn Nettingsmeier, 
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
>> > Hi Sursounders
>> >
>> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>> >
>> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
>> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
>> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
>> > experience.
>> >
>> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
>> head
>> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>> >
>> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
>> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
>> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested
>> headtracking
>> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>>
>> My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
>> Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
>> stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
>> (using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
>> from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
>> software yet.
>> Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
>> January...
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier
>> Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
>> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>>
>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
>> http://stackingdwarves.net
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181102/1ef4b4c4/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The project on https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI with headtracker HW + SW
might be of interest.

The Host application is running in a browser, and can play FOA or HOA files
from the local file system or from the local webserver server on the device.

I will upload a newer software version today or tomorrow.

Currently the software can play local files from the device OR files from
the local web server that publishes the application.

The headtracker is currently BLE connected but I will revive the software
for the USB version that has a lower HW cost.

Developement is aiming  to change the Headtracker to use Web ble function
to read the local headtracker then playing streaming ambisonics with local
headtracking will be possible.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik


Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 11:06 skrev Simon Connor :

> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> Thanks in advance
> Simon
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181101/172db4c7/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Any Second and Third order Demo files available ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I want to thank for the links to Ambix HOA files on the web.
To John Leonard, of course more second orders recordings are welcome,
Either privately or publicaly published on any webpage.

The more different types of recordings from different acoustic environments
and sound types are welcome,
So far the Octomic recordings of the female choir in a room with a low
ceiling and the  full orchestra playing America... are 2 types of
recordings with different acoustics.

Bo-Erik



Den tors 27 sep. 2018 kl 04:59 skrev Steven Backer :

> > One source of HOA files are the Eigenmike demos:
> https://www.mhacoustics.com/demos
> > The raw files can be converted to B-format using the EigenStudio
> software: https://www.mhacoustics.com/download
> The files on the site ending in _16ch_ACN_SN3D are already 3rd-order
> ambiX.  You can use those without any conversion required.
>
> -Steven
>
> > On Sep 26, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> >
> > One source of HOA files are the Eigenmike demos:
> https://www.mhacoustics.com/demos
> >
> > The raw files can be converted to B-format using the EigenStudio
> software: https://www.mhacoustics.com/download
> >
> > It's a bit tedious, but it should work.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > Le 26/09/2018 à 17:09, Bo-Erik Sandholm a écrit :
> >> Almost everybody is talking about using second or third order
> Ambisonics.
> >>
> >> Is there any Audio only files available to test a headtracking higher
> order
> >> binaural player?
> >>
> >> I have the octomic examples
> >> Best Regards
> >> Bo-Erik
> >> -- next part --
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180926/f622ec15/attachment.html
> >
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180926/457cee70/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181008/0ba9e7b7/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Any Second and Third order Demo files available ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Thank you for the pointers to these HOA files, It is good to find a at
least few .

So in one way its on the leading edge and in another way a sad state of
affairs.
That spherical  VR video with FOA ambisonics or even TOA sound ar easy to
find, but good Ambisonic
 sound only recordings are harder to find in higher order.

I know the state of the market for higher order microphones...  a chicken
and egg situation but it is clear that Sound only is not getting as much
attention as VR Video .

Bo-Erik



Den tors 27 sep. 2018 kl 04:59 skrev Steven Backer :

> > One source of HOA files are the Eigenmike demos:
> https://www.mhacoustics.com/demos
> > The raw files can be converted to B-format using the EigenStudio
> software: https://www.mhacoustics.com/download
> The files on the site ending in _16ch_ACN_SN3D are already 3rd-order
> ambiX.  You can use those without any conversion required.
>
> -Steven
>
> > On Sep 26, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Marc Lavallée  wrote:
> >
> > One source of HOA files are the Eigenmike demos:
> https://www.mhacoustics.com/demos
> >
> > The raw files can be converted to B-format using the EigenStudio
> software: https://www.mhacoustics.com/download
> >
> > It's a bit tedious, but it should work.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > Le 26/09/2018 à 17:09, Bo-Erik Sandholm a écrit :
> >> Almost everybody is talking about using second or third order
> Ambisonics.
> >>
> >> Is there any Audio only files available to test a headtracking higher
> order
> >> binaural player?
> >>
> >> I have the octomic examples
> >> Best Regards
> >> Bo-Erik
> >> -- next part --
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180926/f622ec15/attachment.html
> >
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180926/457cee70/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180927/efe116a2/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Any Second and Third order Demo files available ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Almost everybody is talking about using second or third order Ambisonics.

Is there any Audio only files available to test a headtracking higher order
binaural player?

I have the octomic examples
Best Regards
Bo-Erik
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Zoom H3-VR

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Not to be a sour puss, but doing open source stuff and not updating the
documention is something a lot of us are guilty off...

This is a really a sad state off affairs, and many man hours can be saved
of we guilty ones made the effort :-)

In some cases the code is updated but you can only find information on how
the first feature starved version worked.

So take your time and make the effort to do the documentation...

My only github project OHTI, open headtracker will soon be updated due to
information I have recently found out.
The fixes I have searched for have actually been implemented for quite a
while, but info about that has been impossible to find using Google
searches.
So I had to get the info directly from the developer.


Bo-Erik


On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:17 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, 
wrote:

> On 09/15/2018 05:59 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
> > Le 15/09/2018 à 06:19, Eero Aro a écrit :
> >
> >> David Pickett wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is a welcome price, but unfortunately, for that kind of money
> >>> you dont get any numerical specifications, graphs, or guarantee of
> >>> capsule matching, repeatability or variance between examples, all of
> >>> which determine its potential value as a professional tool.
> >>
> >> For about thirty years I have been waiting for an Ambisonic microphone
> >> for a non-professional user. I welcome Zoom's new product with pleasure!
> >
> > What I'm still waiting for is a free (as in speech) Ambisonics
> > microphone like the ones being developed by the SpHEAR project:
> > https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
> >
> > I want something affordable, that I can build, fix and calibrate myself,
> > without two PhDs and access to a nuclear-powered anechoic chamber. I
> > want a modest gear and enough knowledge.
>
> Yup, what I wanted as well, and one of the reasons I started the
> project. The current generation of microphones in the SpHEAR world (four
> and eight capsule designs so far) is sort of "feature complete",
> including a fairly decent calibration procedure (or so I think).
>
> The current status of the project is reflected in this recent paper
> (AES, not public, sorry, contact me if you don't have access):
>
> The *SpHEAR Project Update: The TinySpHEAR and Octathingy Soundfield
> Microphones
> http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19682
>
> (the actual SpHEAR project git repository web front page is very
> outdated, sorry, and I have not had time to push the latest updates)
>
> >In the meanwhile, I could get
> > an H3 (or some other affordable "solution"), but like David I want the
> > numbers. So its a call to all experts who are still reading Sursound;
> > collaborate to the SpHEAR project and make us capable of building a
> > decent Ambisonics microphone. I know it will happen, ...
>
> It is possible to do that now. But as I say in another post of this
> thread, building one is not "cheap", if you count labor[*], and (not
> enough time as always) the instructions are not complete. On the other
> hand, the knowledge gained in building and understanding one is
> something you cannot buy...
>
> -- Fernando
>
> [*] find and buy all components, 3d print all parts, make or order PCBs,
> assemble printed circuit boards (you need pretty good soldering skills),
> connect everything together (again, good manual dexterity), find a space
> for doing the calibration measurements, make _good_ calibration
> measurements (not trivial, needs skill, good speaker and reference
> microphone), run the calibration software and check results for sanity,
> etc, etc... Not what you would call "cheap", but the end result is
> pretty good.
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: mics_alone_s.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 281885 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/fa7b8e81/attachment.jpg
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] MEMS SNR Specifications

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

My last comment on MEMS performance.

One piece price from Mouser 1.80 Euro.

Complete data sheet here with graphs...

https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Infineon/IM69D130V01XTSA1/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduj4xwaVFOJc2igDZAeL7qWZE4cyVm2vU0DkFu5Rl9gaWnMlZsUg39Pw_source=octopart_medium=aggregator_campaign=726-IM69D130V01XTSA1_content=Infineon

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 19:08 Stefan Schreiber,  wrote:

> Many thanks, the information below was very helpful. (At least
> speaking for myself.)
>
> So I suspect that there are some performance issues involved.
> (However, the ZM-1 prototype specs  are certainly not that
> “amateurish” as some have suggested...)
>
> In the end the ZM-1 is not really on the market yet. All we have is
> some “anecdotical evidence” about the microphone’s prototype
> performance.
>
> Current product state:
> http://www.zylia.co/purchase.html
>
> (“ZYLIA is available in a pre-order”)
>
> Otherwise this microphone and its sw has been reviewed in many places.
>
> Just one link:
>
> https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/zylia-zm-1
>
> A fair review (as cited) would take note of the microphone’s many uses
> and high flexibility.
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan Schreiber
>
> - - -
>
> Citando Chris Woolf :
>
> > I think there is indeed some confusion in this discussion between
> > the signal-to-noise ratio of these mics, and dynamic range.
> >
> > The first is conventionally related to 1Pa/94dB SPL, and one then
> > needs to add in a Max SPL figure to get the dynamic range.
> >
> > We need both bits of information to understand the practicality of any
> mic.
> >
> > A noise floor of 24dBA (related to 1Pa) is about par for a small
> > personal electret mic. A dynamic range of >115dB is what one would
> > wish for in decent professional mics - that would be a noise floor
> > of 15dBA and a max SPL of >130dB (with a distortion figure of 3 or
> > 5%).
> >
> > Chris Woolf (ex editor of Microphone Data)
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180818/f02eaeef/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] MEMS SNR Specifications

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

According to the document linked to below that relates self noise values to
real world applications 110 SNR cannot be related to the commonly used
reference sound level.
110 dBA SNR would be 16 dB below absolute quiet.

If the value 70dBA that I found for the infineon dual membrane MEMS mic is
related to 1 Pascal, then it's self noise is around 24 dB which is not
strictly studio quality.
But not really horrible.
If it is related to max 10% distortion which is at 135 dBA thats not a
realistic comparison value as the result is a self noise of 65 dBA.

That would be a noise source not a microphone :-) !

So a bit of apples and oranges comparison is going on 


http://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/what-is-self-noise-or-equivalent-noise-level

SIGNAL-TO-NOISE RATIO
Another way to document the noise performance is to specify the
signal-to-noise ratio. But relative to what signal? The reference sound
pressure level for noise measurements is 94 dB (which equals a sound
pressure of 1 pascal). So you can simply calculate:

Signal-to-noise (db-A) = 94 dB – self-noise (dB-A)



The actual signal-to-noise ratio in use, of course, depends on the sound
pressure level of your sound source.


Bo-Erik

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 01:37 Jack Reynolds,  wrote:

> Are you sure the Ambeo has 110dB SNR?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 17 Aug 2018, at 23:56, Paul Hodges  wrote:
> >
> > --On 17 August 2018 14:55 -0700 Ralph Jones 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Some folks posting here have seemed to suggest that this level of
> >> noise might possibly be acceptable.
> >
> > Well, firstly we don't know the actual specification of the devices
> > used by Zylia.  And secondly, using an array of nineteen to generate an
> > output gives the possibility of significant improvement, because the
> > sound source signals are correlated and the noise is uncorrelated.
> >
> > How this holds up in practice at higher orders and higher frequencies I
> > will attempt to judge when I get my hands on the ZM-1 rather than just
> > predicting failure in advance (which is not consistent with the reviews
> > I've seen heard and read).
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --
> > Paul Hodges
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

That is nearly 2 year old info, I found when reading one of the links.

I suspect there have been some Zylia product developement up to now.
Possibly also on the USB interface implementation.

If the MEMS noise level is acceptable and the stated MEMS advantages - long
term stability and very low difference between individual samples of MEMS
elements that they may have made an exellent choise of mic elements for a
ambisonic array.

But Listening to recording samples and mesurements will show the resulting
implementation quality, MEMS seems to be Electret microphones implemented
with a semiconductor process.
I found this very interesting, at least some MEMS have mechanical membrance
resonances at around 15 kHz. Older mems implentations referenced here

https://nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/3832EB0E-2297-4CF5-B58AC8FC54DF9705/Seattle%20Presentation.ppt

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4032405/

MEMS can be constructed using optical readout of data, then getting below
23dBA self noise - Electrostatic MEMS have appearently higher values, I
have not found how much And dont know what MEMS Zylia uses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4032405/

This indicate that SNR values around 64 to 65 dBA might be typical of a
conventional MEMS microphone.
https://www.ama-science.org/proceedings/getFile/ZwZ2Zt==

Here is aRECENT summer 2017 press release from Infineon about their 2017
MEMS mic elements.  Seems there is a difference.
I am not a Mic designer so I do not know what a 70dB SNR ratio means in the
real world for performance.

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/about-infineon/press/market-news/2017/INFPMM201707-064.html
extract below:
Current MEMS microphone technology uses a sound wave actuated membrane and
a static backplate.
Infineon’s dual backplate MEMS technology uses a membrane embedded within
two backplates thus generating a truly differential signal.
This allows improved high frequency immunity for better audio signal
processing and increases the acoustic overload point of 10 percent Total
Harmonic Distortion (THD) to 135 dB SPL.
The SNR of 70 dB is an improvement of 6 dB compared to a conventional MEMS
microphone.
This improvement is equivalent to doubling the distance from which a user
can give a voice command that is captured by the microphone.

Additionally, the analog and digital microphones have excellent
microphone-to-microphone matching (±1 dB sensitivity matching and ± 2°
phase matching) which is ideal for implementing in arrays.

Bo-Erik: I dont think this will be good enough for not having matched
elements in production if only a single standard A to B conversion is used?

Showing how to mount MEMS microphones for best performance!
https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN557_MEMS_microphone_mechanical_and_acoustical_implementation-AN-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d4626102d35a01612d1e3bf96add

Any comments for further speculation welcome :-)

Bo-Erik

2018-08-16 23:03 GMT+02:00 Wim :

> I seem to remember the Zylia uses Primo electret capsules. And this post on
> the Prorecording list seems to confirm it:
> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/prorecordingworkshop/
> zylia-microphone-t19409070.html
>
> And this AES publication confirms at least the electret part:
> http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17902
> "Zamojski, Jakub Affiliation: Zylia sp. z o.o ... a spherical microphone
> based on inexpensive electret capsules"
>
>
> Op do 16 aug. 2018 om 20:33 schreef Stefan Schreiber <
> st...@mail.telepac.pt
> >:
>
> > I don’t believe at all that they (Zylia) are using MEMS clusters...
> >
> > Otherwise very interesting thoughts in the cited mail below...
> >
> >   I also believe that noise of different capsules doesn’t add up (so I
> > agree with Bo-Erik, at least at first sight), but we can’t get below
> > the noise floor of a single capsule. MEMS type or not...
> >
> > Typical specifications (High performance MEMS audio sensor):
> >
> > https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/mp23ab01dh.pdf
> >
> > (SNR: 65dB)
> >
> > I personally would be very interested in a PRO version of the Zylia
> > ZM-1 microphone, especially since even the current version seems to be
> > (quite? very?) nice. According to various personal reports
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> > - - - -
> >
> > Citando Bo-Erik Sandholm :
> >
> > > I agree with Len, we have not seen any technical spec of self noise
> level
> > >
> > >  of the MEMS (clusters?)  that are used in Zylia.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Only text saying that in normal musical recording situations self
> noise
> > is
> > >
> > >  not disturbing :-).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  I have a personal theo

Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I agree with Len, we have not seen any technical spec of self noise level
of the MEMS (clusters?)  that are used in Zylia.

Only text saying that in normal musical recording situations self noise is
not disturbing :-).

I have a personal theory that self noise of physical elements in an
ambisonic mic array is not directly additive.
The basis for my theory is that as we convert to B-format the noise from
all the physical elements are distributed over a spherical surface,
and the noise level for a virtual microphone in decoding do not have the
full sum of the added microphone noise levels.
Only coherent noise within the take up volume of the virtual microphone is
relevant in that directional microphones response.

But I am can be totally wrong in this mental visualization of the decoding
process. I have not done any mathematical research of this...

Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm

2018-08-16 19:04 GMT+02:00 Len Moskowitz :

> Justin wrote:
>
>
> it's
>> http://www.zylia.co/
>>
>
>
> Thanks, but I still can't seem to find a web page with its basic
> specifications. Perhaps I'm missing an obvious link.
>
>
>
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com
> Home of OctoMic and TetraMic
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180816/0e6716ca/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Jack, binaural and surround sound

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The software playing the Soundfile needs to be able to play and process
more than 2 channels, at a minimum four.

The soundcard only need 2 channels for the resulting binaural sound.

Best regards
Bo-Erik


On Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:39 Bearcat M. Şándor, 
wrote:

> Since I listen through the headphone jack on my 7 channel sound card I have
> Jack and also configured for 2 channels.  When I'm listening to surround
> material via a binaural [like] processing should I have also set for 7
> channels?
>
> In other words, is the number of channels only relevant to the physical
> speaker outputs on my card, or does that effect the number of channels in
> the softwares processing to binaural?
>
> Thank you
>
> Bearcat M. Şándor
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180812/434b52bc/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have "test" a recording of birds in a Nordic summer night.
Recorded with core-sound tetra mic using Tascam dr680

Bo-Erik

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:37 Søren Bendixen,  wrote:

> Hi
> I´m in the same situation, want to record nature (and other things) in
> ambisonics. and I have no experience - and waiting for the new Røde(Rode)
> NT- SF1 - I will be just below 1000 USD
> Røde took over Soundfield and then bought some knowledge about Ambisonics
> equipment and this microphone would be the result ... In Denmark, for
> example, Sennheiser ambeo costs around 1900 usd
> They announced the NT - SF1 almost 6 months ago - so..
>
> BR
> Søren Bendixen
> > Den 10. aug. 2018 kl. 20.22 skrev Drew Kirkland :
> >
> > Hi guys
> >
> > We have recently decided to record nature in ambisonic format with a
> > additional specific mono and stereo recordings added in at edit stage.
> >
> > I would be interested in current ambisonic mic choice, we don't have
> loads
> > of cash but want to get as transparent a sound field as possible.
> >
> > We have all had experience over the last 30 years or so of using standard
> > mics and have our favourites for particular situations but have never had
> > experience of usi g ambisonic mics and relevant field recorders.
> >
> > Advice welcome
> >
> > Drew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Drew Kirkland
> > 1 campbleton cottage
> > Hunterston Estate
> > KA23 9QF
> >
> > 07876238608
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180810/3ceb1f7b/attachment.html
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
>
> Søren Bendixen
> Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
>
> Company: Audiotect
>
> New Exhibition sound design " På Djengis Khans stepper - Mongoliets
> Nomader",
> - Moesgaard Museum, 19 june 2018 - 7 april 2019
> - National Museum of Denmark: From june  2019
>
> Jyllandsposten: 5 (out of 6) Stars: “The illusion of a railroad journey is
> underpinned by the sceneries that stand outside the windows. Sound and
> image are in exemplary harmony, which is just as consistent
> completed when you attend the exhibition. the room is generally enhanced
> by a rather fascinating sound design” (22 juni 2018)
>
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180810/8f5743a1/attachment.html
> >
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: IMG_4363.jpeg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 20401 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180810/8f5743a1/attachment.jpeg
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Open HeadTracking Initiative OHTI - Release announcement

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Here is the current verified hw list:
github.com/bossesand/OHTI/blob/master/OHTI-build-Hardware/Parts%20and%20build%20instructions.rtf

I have bought a few smaller modules, on mobile only now.
Will be back...
Bo-Erik

This is what I have bought,

Den fre 18 maj 2018 16:29Hector Centeno <hcen...@gmail.com> skrev:

> This is great Bo-Erik! I will definitively look into adding support to
> AmbiExplorer for this tracker. I found a couple of sources online where to
> buy the components but I was wondering if there's any particular breakout
> boards for those ICs that you would recommend (both for the F52832 BT/SoC
> and the BNO055 IMU). I would like to also look into designing a 3D
> printable enclosure for it.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Hector
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 8:56 AM Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I want to present OHTI, a combination of open Software, Firmware and HW
> for
> > listening to Ambisonic recordings in Ambix format and with a plan for
> > listening to channel based Audio in the future,
>
> > The Manifesto at
> > https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI/blob/master/OHTI%20v.14.doc describe
> the
> > current status and the plans for the future on a technical level soutable
> > for sursound members.
>
>
> > All the software and descriptions of needed HW is available at
> > https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI
>
> > The Headtracker is using BLE for communication with the host software and
> > is built with  nrf52832 and BNO055 for drift free headtracking.
> >   All of the host software is JS/node.js or JS/HTML5 based to allow it to
> > work on many different platforms.
>
> > We have in this alpha release Ambisonic 2 players implementations with
> > headtracking activated using Omnitone or JSAmbisonics.
>
> > We also describe how to convert a personal HRTF SOFA file for use with
> each
> > of the players.
>
> > We have tested the implementations on Linux (Ubuntu), OSX and Win10  with
> > HTML5 capable Browsers like Chrome and Firefox.
>
> > We have received support or assistance from a number  of members on the
> > sursound list since the slow start in 2014.
>
>
> > We hope for continued support and assistance in this effort to make
> > headphone sound more realistic ( out of the head )  and promote surround
> > sound for music and not only in VR context.
>
> > We also hope that you can make it possible to use this headtracker with
> > other Ambisonic Soundfield Binaural decodes.
> > We do of course also appreciate any corrections or further assistance in
> > development of this concept.
>
>
> > Best Regards
>
> > Open Headtracking Initiative for Audio (OHTI)
>
> > Bo-Erik Sandholm, Stockholm
>
> > Roger Sandholm, Stockholm
>
> > Stefan Schreiber, Lisbon
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180518/a16afeb3/attachment.html
>
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180520/7a1c3ab0/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Open HeadTracking Initiative OHTI - Release announcement

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Any assistance in creating JS code to interface to reaper rotational vst's
from our host module  would be a great bonus : -)

I will try to update my earlieriest USB version based on bno055 and
arduino328p which is 3,3volt with a usb serial interface.


Bo-Erik

On 18 May 2018 16:41, "Bruce Wiggins" <bruce.wigg...@gmail.com> wrote:

We've been using Mr Head Tracker here at Derby, for use with Reaper (with
the same gyro).  Your project looks like a great addition to the head
tracking landscape :-)
https://git.iem.at/DIY/MrHeadTracker

cheers

Bruce Wiggins


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 3:29 PM Hector Centeno <hcen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is great Bo-Erik! I will definitively look into adding support to
> AmbiExplorer for this tracker. I found a couple of sources online where to
> buy the components but I was wondering if there's any particular breakout
> boards for those ICs that you would recommend (both for the F52832 BT/SoC
> and the BNO055 IMU). I would like to also look into designing a 3D
> printable enclosure for it.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Hector
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 8:56 AM Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I want to present OHTI, a combination of open Software, Firmware and HW
> for
> > listening to Ambisonic recordings in Ambix format and with a plan for
> > listening to channel based Audio in the future,
>
> > The Manifesto at
> > https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI/blob/master/OHTI%20v.14.doc describe
> the
> > current status and the plans for the future on a technical level
soutable
> > for sursound members.
>
>
> > All the software and descriptions of needed HW is available at
> > https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI
>
> > The Headtracker is using BLE for communication with the host software
and
> > is built with  nrf52832 and BNO055 for drift free headtracking.
> >   All of the host software is JS/node.js or JS/HTML5 based to allow it
to
> > work on many different platforms.
>
> > We have in this alpha release Ambisonic 2 players implementations with
> > headtracking activated using Omnitone or JSAmbisonics.
>
> > We also describe how to convert a personal HRTF SOFA file for use with
> each
> > of the players.
>
> > We have tested the implementations on Linux (Ubuntu), OSX and Win10
with
> > HTML5 capable Browsers like Chrome and Firefox.
>
> > We have received support or assistance from a number  of members on the
> > sursound list since the slow start in 2014.
>
>
> > We hope for continued support and assistance in this effort to make
> > headphone sound more realistic ( out of the head )  and promote surround
> > sound for music and not only in VR context.
>
> > We also hope that you can make it possible to use this headtracker with
> > other Ambisonic Soundfield Binaural decodes.
> > We do of course also appreciate any corrections or further assistance in
> > development of this concept.
>
>
> > Best Regards
>
> > Open Headtracking Initiative for Audio (OHTI)
>
> > Bo-Erik Sandholm, Stockholm
>
> > Roger Sandholm, Stockholm
>
> > Stefan Schreiber, Lisbon
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
>
>
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180518/a16afeb3/attachment.html
>
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180518/53cfaf27/attachment.html
>

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180518/a1bb4733/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Open HeadTracking Initiative OHTI - Release announcement

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I want to present OHTI, a combination of open Software, Firmware and HW for
listening to Ambisonic recordings in Ambix format and with a plan for
listening to channel based Audio in the future,

The Manifesto at
https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI/blob/master/OHTI%20v.14.doc describe the
current status and the plans for the future on a technical level soutable
for sursound members.


All the software and descriptions of needed HW is available at
https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI

The Headtracker is using BLE for communication with the host software and
is built with  nrf52832 and BNO055 for drift free headtracking.
 All of the host software is JS/node.js or JS/HTML5 based to allow it to
work on many different platforms.

We have in this alpha release Ambisonic 2 players implementations with
headtracking activated using Omnitone or JSAmbisonics.

We also describe how to convert a personal HRTF SOFA file for use with each
of the players.

We have tested the implementations on Linux (Ubuntu), OSX and Win10  with
HTML5 capable Browsers like Chrome and Firefox.

We have received support or assistance from a number  of members on the
sursound list since the slow start in 2014.


We hope for continued support and assistance in this effort to make
headphone sound more realistic ( out of the head )  and promote surround
sound for music and not only in VR context.

We also hope that you can make it possible to use this headtracker with
other Ambisonic Soundfield Binaural decodes.
We do of course also appreciate any corrections or further assistance in
development of this concept.


Best Regards

Open Headtracking Initiative for Audio (OHTI)

Bo-Erik Sandholm, Stockholm

Roger Sandholm, Stockholm

Stefan Schreiber, Lisbon
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180518/a16afeb3/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Strange 'buzz' in Ambisonic recording

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I suspect that depending of chosen virtual mic configuration there is so
much low frequency gain added that you boost the level of the nearly always
existing 50Hz hum so much that you actually hear it.
It has sometimes happened to me that I need to lower the input level of the
signal to the ambisonic decoder otherwise i got signal clipping in the
processing stage.

BR Bo-Erik

2018-05-07 18:30 GMT+02:00 Gerard Lardner :

> I'm very much an amateur here, so please forgive what might be a stupid
> question!
>
> I recorded a concert on Saturday (John Rutter's /Gloria /and Karl Jenkins'
> /The Peacemakers/) using an Ambisonic mic and some others. I'm encoding the
> A-format to B-format using VVEncode in Reaper, and panning in the extra
> mics using Wigware Ambipan. The result is then decoded to surround sound or
> to stereo using VVDecode; all in the same Reaper set-up. I've used this
> approach before, usually successfully.
>
> I find that, when the organ and brass are playing at full volume (I mean
> in the orchestra, not just in playback), there is a 'buzzing' sound in the
> playback. It sounds harsh, pitched at about 50 Hz. But if I listen to the
> A-format files alone in Reaper or in VLC Media Player, there is no buzz.
> Similarly, there is no buzz if I encode the A-format using the stand-alone
> version of VVMic. The buzz is present both in the B-format from the
> Ambisonic mic and, less strongly, in the panned B-format from the soloists
> mic. It appears to be an artefact of my editing configuration; but it
> didn't happen in a recording I made, using the same configuration, last
> month. The only difference since then has been that my old hard disc, which
> had developed some faults, was cloned onto a new SSD.
>
> Does this description suggest a specific problem/remedy to anyone? I know
> I can produce a decent CD using the stand-alone VVMic route and panning in
> the soloists into the stereo mix; but I'd like to get to the bottom of why
> my Ambisonic configuration is doing this now.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  nts/20180507/fffd5727/attachment.html>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Thank you all, for your answers.
I received a lot of information.

I will start with FOA RIRs from my tetramic , it seems my ideas for
measuring higher orders are not realistic without a higher order microphone.

And FOA is probably good enough for my proof of concept.



Best Regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 03:59 umashankar manthravadi, <umasha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I have been using a stepper motor (of the kind used in 3d printer ) driven
> by a low cost Arduino and motor control board. I 3d print a snug fitting
> fixture for the microphone with the motor shaft  aligned to the array
> centre. It is low cost so I design a fitting for each mic I test, including
> the Brahma-in-Zoom. A small Arduino script rotates the stepper 25 steps
> each time I press a button (for 16 positions) and 50 steps (for 8
> positions). I was worried about the stepper skipping with the weight of the
> microphone, but that is not happening, even with a five volt supply. I was
> ready with a thrust bearing between the motor housing and the microphone
> housing but it was not necessary. I plan to get rid of the switch and use a
> pulse on the right channel instead, though I generally do not like to
> automate things too much.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> 
> From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Fernando
> Lopez-Lezcano <na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 1:40:56 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order
> Ambisonic room responce?
>
> On 04/23/2018 12:42 PM, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
> >> I can do the 4 measurements with 45 degrees rotation of my tetramic,
> that
> >> is not so difficult,  the next step to create a second order ambisonic
> >> RIR
> >>
> >> that is where I will fail :-).
>
> You would need to "calibrate" the created 8 capsule array. That is,
> record impulse responses all around it in a big space or anechoic room
> (enough to accurately sample the spherical harmonics you want), and then
> derive an A to B converter from that. I have some preliminary code in my
> SpHEAR project that tries to do that, but it is not a "push a button and
> you are done" thing at all...
>
> For Fons's code, and to do this the "right way"...
> On 03/27/2018 01:18 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> > ...  you'll have to sell your soul :-)
>
> :-P
>
> > I believe you might need a quite high precision to be successful even at
> > the first step...
> >
> > (A SF mike has narrowly spaced capsules, and needs calibrationThe
> > mechanical precision you need to measure 2nd order with a FOA mike is
> > IMHO high.)
>
> Based on my experience with the Octathingy's I have built I would agree,
> you would need to be very precise (and repeatable).
>
> In my case to get good calibration data I need to rotate the microphone
> with no wobble and at different orientations (or if it is not _exactly_
> perfect, try to get away with calibrating out the average delays to all
> capsules).
>
> BTW, I cannot move the speaker around which would probably be a better
> solution because of space constraints... I can barely get 4.5mSecs of IR
> data in the spaces I can use.
>
> > So the mathematical methods (based on FOA but improving the RIR
> > resolution, as suggested by Archontis) should be a better way to go
> > on... Especially since you could receive even higher resolutions/orders,
> > and in practice.
> >
> > So the presented ideas to capture 2nd order RIRs via a 1st order mike
> > are brilliant, but are they practical?
>
> Probably not practical IMHO.
>
> > And even if somebody could succeed in a very careful process: this does
> > not look to be a robust measurement method. ..
> >
> > We always talk about the 1st reflections, in this case. Not reverb,
> > which is kind of statistical.
> >
> > Of course you can try, but how much precision is really needed? (Should
> > be clarified before...)
>
> I would have to go to my data to get some numbers... I definitely can
> see effects at high frequencies when the data capture is not precise
> (I'm in the process of trying to build a better measuring rig).
>
> -- Fernando
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsursound=02%7C01%7C%7Cd2d37994bf824

Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I can do the 4 measurements with 45 degrees rotation of my tetramic, that
is not so difficult,  the next step to create a second order ambisonic RIR
that is where I will fail :-).

I will need a more detailed step by step instruction to reach my goal :-).

Bo-Erik
Stockholm

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:02 jack reynolds,  wrote:

> you are right fons.
>
> it is an octohedron with the top four rotated 45 degrees.
>
> but i would have thought two tetramic IRs at 90 rotated 90 degress from
> each other would give you quite good coverage.
>
> rotated 45, 90 and 135 would be even better! Plus another couple for up and
> down?
>
> J
>
>
>
> On 23 April 2018 at 19:50, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 07:18:33PM +0100, jack reynolds wrote:
> >
> > > indeed. apologies, it is 90 degrees.
> >
> > Again no. To cover all the directions of the Octomic capsules
> > with a Tetramic you need 4 orientations of the Tetramic (and
> > you get another 8 directions as a bonus).
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > --
> > FA
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> 07889727365
>
> 02036861372
>
> 3 Swimmers Lane
> Haggerston
> London
> E2 8FR
>
>
> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
>
> www.sohovr.co.uk
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180423/f1a5166f/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

As I see it to capture the signals for the upper layers of octomic with a
tetra mic you rotate the mic 90 degrees between the takes..
To capture the lower octomic  elements layer go back to initial position,
then rotate Tetra mic 45 degrees and then 90 degrees for 2  recordings.

So 4 rotation direction to place the tetra mic elements in same positions
as the 8 Octomic capsules.

select the 8 A signals that corresponds to the octomic positions...

Then get our hands on the octomic software if possible and hopefully
translate the tetramic calibration file in to a octomic calibration file,
might be possible.

This has only a chance to work for IR measurements and if the rotation of
the tetramic is done without moving the center point of the mic head.

I hope this is possible, it should be a great new use of a tetramic to be
able with a little work to create second order room Impulse responses.

 Bo-Erik

2018-04-23 19:10 GMT+02:00 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
:

> On 04/23/2018 04:24 AM, jack reynolds wrote:
>
>> The new coresound octomic is based on two tetramics, with one rotated 45
>> degrees from the other,
>>
>
> Hmm, does not look like that to me. If you, for example, take any two
> opposite capsules in the upper ring as part of one tetrahedral microphone,
> there are no capsules in the lower ring that would match the lower half of
> that microphone (they are rotated 45 degrees from where they should be).
>
> -- Fernando
>
>
> so if you could work out how the second order
>> B-format is extracted from the octomic array, you could potentially take
>> an
>> A-format reponse with your tetramic, rotate the mic 45 degrees and capture
>> another, then process all eight channels?
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On 23 April 2018 at 11:51, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Have never used Max, I need just 2, but probably 4 sound source positions
>>> and one listening position.
>>> But the listening position should have full spherical  ambisonic
>>> soundfield.
>>> But the result should be ambisonic IR's for these 4 sources.
>>>
>>> The question is could upsampling be used ?
>>>
>>> BR Bo-Erik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-04-23 10:47 GMT+02:00 Hyunkook Lee <h@hud.ac.uk>:
>>>
>>> Indeed HIRT is the best IR capture package for Max.  There is also HAART,
>>>> which is a standalone Max application we developed using HIRT. This
>>>> software is all in one box for multichannel IR capture (24 mics x 24
>>>> sources), acoustic parameter analysis and binauralisation. The analysis
>>>> part is still under development, but the IR capture and binauralisation
>>>> parts are fully working. You can download it here
>>>>
>>>> http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/24579/
>>>>
>>>> Also as Pierre mentioned, we captured over 2000 IRs of 39 multichannel
>>>>
>>> mic
>>>
>>>> array configurations from stereo to 9ch 3D using HAART. The library
>>>> comes
>>>> with a Max renderer where you can convolve dry sources or signals fed
>>>>
>>> from
>>>
>>>> DAW with the mic array IRs for simultaneous comparisons between
>>>>
>>> techniques.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/APL-Huddersfield/MAIR-Library-and-Renderer
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Hyunkook
>>>> =
>>>> Dr Hyunkook Lee, BMus(Tonmeister), PhD, MAES, FHEA
>>>> Senior Lecturer in Music Technology
>>>> Leader of the Applied Psychoacoustics Laboratory (APL)
>>>> http://www.hud.ac.uk/apl
>>>> http://www.hyunkooklee.com
>>>> Phone: +44 (0)1484 471893
>>>> Email: h@hud.ac.uk
>>>> Office: CE 2 /14a
>>>> School of Computing and Engineering
>>>> University of Huddersfield
>>>> Huddersfield
>>>> HD1 3DH
>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] on behalf of Pierre
>>>> Alexandre Tremblay [tremb...@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 23 April 2018 09:29
>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group
>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order
>>>> Ambisonic room responce?
>>>>
>>>> If you use Max, try the very versatile HIRT.
>>>>
>>>> 2nd order with a tetramic is 

Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Have never used Max, I need just 2, but probably 4 sound source positions
and one listening position.
But the listening position should have full spherical  ambisonic soundfield.
But the result should be ambisonic IR's for these 4 sources.

The question is could upsampling be used ?

BR Bo-Erik



2018-04-23 10:47 GMT+02:00 Hyunkook Lee <h@hud.ac.uk>:

> Indeed HIRT is the best IR capture package for Max.  There is also HAART,
> which is a standalone Max application we developed using HIRT. This
> software is all in one box for multichannel IR capture (24 mics x 24
> sources), acoustic parameter analysis and binauralisation. The analysis
> part is still under development, but the IR capture and binauralisation
> parts are fully working. You can download it here
>
> http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/24579/
>
> Also as Pierre mentioned, we captured over 2000 IRs of 39 multichannel mic
> array configurations from stereo to 9ch 3D using HAART. The library comes
> with a Max renderer where you can convolve dry sources or signals fed from
> DAW with the mic array IRs for simultaneous comparisons between techniques.
>
> https://github.com/APL-Huddersfield/MAIR-Library-and-Renderer
>
> Best,
> Hyunkook
> =
> Dr Hyunkook Lee, BMus(Tonmeister), PhD, MAES, FHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Music Technology
> Leader of the Applied Psychoacoustics Laboratory (APL)
> http://www.hud.ac.uk/apl
> http://www.hyunkooklee.com
> Phone: +44 (0)1484 471893
> Email: h@hud.ac.uk
> Office: CE 2 /14a
> School of Computing and Engineering
> University of Huddersfield
> Huddersfield
> HD1 3DH
> United Kingdom
>
> 
> From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] on behalf of Pierre
> Alexandre Tremblay [tremb...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 23 April 2018 09:29
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order
> Ambisonic room responce?
>
> If you use Max, try the very versatile HIRT.
>
> 2nd order with a tetramic is not possible as far as I am aware through… we
> have done (mega)multimic IRs (24 channels of inputs, of which a 1st order
> ambisonic) of 3 different spaces with our kit, and it was fun and
> productive to train the ear on difference of multichannel mic techniques
> (Hyunkook Lee has a cool setup and papers on them, and I was mostly
> interested in DPA LCR omni vs coincident vs MS)
>
> We did many stage positions too. I can investigate if I can share the
> files if that interests anyone.
>
> p
>
>
> > On 23 Apr 2018, at 08:37, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I want to measure the RIR of a medium size good listening room at least
> up
> > to second order Ambisonic RIR.
> >
> > The IR result is to incorporate the responce and reflections of the
> > speakers and their positions.
> >
> > I have a tetramic.
> >
> > Can several measurements and rotation of the tetra mic between them be
> > combined to create the measurements that comes closer to a second order
> mic?
> >
> > I know the basics of using Audacity, and a audio sweep and creating a IR
> > from this.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bo-Erik Sandholm
> > Stockholm
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20180423/ee496094/attachment.html>
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> University of Huddersfield inspiring tomorrow's professionals.
> [http://marketing.hud.ac.uk/_HOSTED/EmailSig2014/EmailSigFooter.jpg]
>
> This transmission is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you
> receive it in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and remove it
> from your system. If the content of this e-mail does not relate to the
> business of the University of Huddersfield, then we do not endorse it and
> will accept no liability.
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180423/3de17520/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] RIR measuring, how to capture a higher order Ambisonic room responce?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I want to measure the RIR of a medium size good listening room at least up
to second order Ambisonic RIR.

The IR result is to incorporate the responce and reflections of the
speakers and their positions.

I have a tetramic.

Can several measurements and rotation of the tetra mic between them be
combined to create the measurements that comes closer to a second order mic?

I know the basics of using Audacity, and a audio sweep and creating a IR
from this.



Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180423/ee496094/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Mosca: GUI assisted ambisonics quark v0.2 for SuperCollider

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Looks very nice.
I have looked through the video
Seems like I have to start learning SuperCollider :-)

I do have a headtracker design and Javascript code currently generating
quaternions over BLE presenting the result in a websocket.  The design will
released in the near future.

As I understand it there is no support for individul SOFA files in ATK ?
Could "someone" take on the effort to do this?
As I am not a programmer on the level to do something like this, but I
wonder if
 https://www.npmjs.com/package/ambisonics#sofa  might not be of great help
in that effort?

Or is there a simple way to send a  output stream of bformat sound from
SuperCollider to an external instance of the SOFA capable decoder written
in JavaScript??

I currently have a personal SOFA file created for me by Antti Pulkki's
company.

Best Regards

 Bo-Erik Sandholm
 Stockholm, Sweden


2018-02-12 13:39 GMT+01:00 Iain Mott <m...@escuta.org>:

> Hello list,
>
> For users of SuperCollider:
>
> A new and much improved "Mosca" quark for GUI assisted ambisonics is
> available in the quark repository. It has been tested with the ATK 4.0.1
> and SC 3.9.0.
>
> Version 0.2 includes optional head-tracking, streaming from disk, non-GUI
> operation, a code interface and many other changes and bug fixes.
>
> The home page for the project is here: http://escuta.org/mosca
>
> A video tutorial is available here: http://escuta.org/moscavideo
>
> The git source is here: https://github.com/escuta/mosca
>
> All the best!
>
> Iain Mott
>
> --
> _
> Iain Mott
> http://escuta.org
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180214/014a9c6e/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Simple Software to Play a 6-channel WAV File (Windows)?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Wavosaur seems really neat as it has VST support, maybe to use on windows
to listen to a b-format file and use a vst for decoding to binaural

On 26 Oct 2017 03:43, "Augustine Leudar"  wrote:

> quicktime player does I hink
>
> On 25 October 2017 at 19:14, Eero Aro  wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > Wavosaur plays multichannel files and all channels can be routed through
> > a multichannel interface.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ydemrofs
> >
> > But I understood that Len didn't want to use too complicated software?
> >
> > Do you need/want to use a computer at all?
> > How about a standalone SD card or HD player?
> >
> > Eero
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20171026/60b35f9d/attachment.html>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] How to find best fit of SOFA files from CIPRIC?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I am looking for information on how to find the best fit from public/Free
SOFA databases.

I think one criteria could be the inter ear distance?
How would I for example find the best fit in the CIPRIC SOFA database for
my headwith.

I do not really want to test all available SOFA files by listening with
them.

And for me the process of getting a personal SOFA seems still to be too
expensive or at least hard to do.

Bo-Erik
Stockholm Sweden
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Video + multichannel audio playback

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Ambdec works via jack

Den 14 sep. 2017 10:35 skrev "David Stalling" :

> Thank you Marc and Jörn for your responses. Plenty of food for thought. I
> needed a quick solution and what worked for me in the end with the
> Raspberry Pi was VLC player (compiled with HW acceleration) connecting via
> JACK to my USB soundcard. The next time I will try mpv.
>
> Jörn, are there any particular decoders you can recommend that would work
> via JACK?
>
> Best,
> David
>
>
>
> --
> >
> >
> > Also, consider using JACK to connect a decoder after the player, so that
> > you can store your media in portable Ambisonics format rather than
> > rendered to a particular layout.
> >
> > Greetings on the way home from https://vdt-icsa.de,
> >
> >
> > J?rn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > J?rn Nettingsmeier
> > De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
> > Tel. +49 177 7937487
> >
> > Meister f?r Veranstaltungstechnik (B?hne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
> > http://stackingdwarves.net
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > About mpv; the audio routing syntax is slightly different than for
> > mplayer, and is well documented:
> > https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/blob/master/DOCS/man/af.rst <
> > https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/blob/master/DOCS/man/af.rst>
> >
> > Off topic:
> > Looking at https://vdt-icsa.de , I see that IRCAM
> > have a new tool (not that new, but still worth mentioning): panoramix.
> > It looks like the perfect spatial audio companion for live sound, and the
> > Linux version is free (as in beer):
> > http://forumnet.ircam.fr/product/panoramix-en/
> >
> > ?
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:  attachments/20170914/0d963e45/attachment.html>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Help: what am I doing wrong?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

https://ambisonic.info/info/ricardo/decoder.html

Good info compiled to refresh the basics for foa decoding

On 7 Jul 2017 19:20, "Sampo Syreeni"  wrote:

> On 2017-07-06, Aaron Heller wrote:
>
> The decoders produced by my toolbox in FAUST (the ".dsp" files) have
>> distance, level, and near-field compensation up to 5th-order (and more
>> soon). Those can be compiled to a large number of plugin types, including
>> VST, AU, MaxMSP, ...
>>
>
> ...and we like it. ;)
> --
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
> +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Help: what am I doing wrong?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I remember a thread discussing  decoding and listening tests from a number
of years back.

For foa and dual band decoding the best results was with not too many
speakers in the array.

My memory of the result and my interpretation of the discussion is that,
6 speakers in the horizontal ring and 4 speakers in + and - 60 degrees
rings would be ideal for foa.
That is 14 channels total. More speakers gave a more diffuse result.

Bo-Erik

On 6 Jul 2017 03:16, "Aaron Heller"  wrote:

Forgot the URL...

http://www.ai.sri.com/~heller/ambisonics/index.html#test-files

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Aaron Heller  wrote:

> I have some first-order test files that you can try. They're FuMa
> order/normalization. There's "eight directions" and some pink noise pans.
> With a good decoder, localization should be pretty good with these --
> better in the front than the back in my experience.
>
> Aaron
>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Aaron Heller  wrote:
>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> A few things...
>>
>> 1. You should use a first-order decoder to play first-order sources.
>> That's not the same as playing a first-order file into the first-order
>> inputs of a third-order decoder.
>>
>> 2. 1st-order periphonic (3D) ambisonics on a full 3D loudspeaker array
>> gets the energy correct, and hence the sense of envelopment; localization
>> is not that precise.  The magnitude of the energy localization vector,
rE,
>> in this situation is only sqrt(3)/3, which Gerzon noted is “perilously
>> close to being unsatisfactory." [1]
>>
>> 3. The decoders in the AmbiX plugins are single-band rE_max decoders, a
>> dual-band decoder will improve localization for central listeners a bit.
>> Both Ambdec and the FAUST decoders produced by the ADT (the ".dsp" files)
>> support 2-band decoding.
>>
>> 4. If you really want more precise localization, consider parametric
>> decoding using Harpex or the Harpex-based upmixer plugin from Blue Ripple
>> Sound. In my experience, it works very well with panned sources and
>> acoustic recordings in dry environments (outdoors, dry hall). For
>> recordings in very reverberant halls (like my recordings), the
improvement
>> is not that great.
>>
>> Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com)
>> Menlo Park, CA  US
>>
>>
>> [1]  Michael A. Gerzon. Practical Periphony: The Reproduction of
>> Full-Sphere Sound. Preprint 1571
>> from the 65th Audio Engineering Society Convention, London, February
>> 1980. AES E-lib http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3794.
>>
>>1.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Martin Dupras 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've deployed a 21-speaker near spherical array a few days ago, which
>>> I think is working ok, but I'm having difficulty with playing back
>>> some first order A-format recordings on it. They sound really very
>>> diffuse and not very localised at all. I figured that some of you good
>>> people on here might have some idea of where I might be going wrong or
>>> what is not right.
>>>
>>> At the moment I'm using Reaper, and for decoding I'm using Matthias
>>> Kronlachner's Ambix decoder plug-in, with a configuration that I've
>>> calculated with Aaron Heller's Ambisonics Decoder Toolbox. I think the
>>> decoder configuration is right. I've calculated it with ambix ordering
>>> and scaling, and third order in H and V.  The speaker array has six
>>> speakers at floor level (-22 degrees elevation), eight at ear level at
>>> 1m70 (0 degrees elevation), six at 45 degrees elevation and one at the
>>> apex.
>>>
>>> Now: if I pan monophonic sources using a panner (e.g. o3a panner, 3rd
>>> order), the localisation is pretty good. I've tested that with several
>>> people by panning to random places and asking to blindly point out to
>>> where they hear the source. Generally, they're in about the right
>>> place (say within 45 degrees on average.)
>>>
>>> On the other hand, if I play 1st order A-format recordings (mostly
>>> that I've made using our Core TetraMic), the localisation of sources
>>> is pretty poor. I also tried with the "xyz.wav" example file from Core
>>> (https://www.vvaudio.com/downloads) with the same results. To convert
>>> from A-format to B-format, I've tried using Core's VVtetraVST plugin
>>> with the calibration files for the mic (followed by the o3a FuMa to
>>> Ambix converter), and the Senneheiser Ambeo plugin (which does the
>>> same job, but in Ambix form already.)
>>>
>>> So what am I doing wrong? I've spent the last couple of days checking
>>> everything thoroughly. I've calibrated all the speakers to within 1dB
>>> SPL for the same signal received with an omni mic at the centre of the
>>> sphere. I've triple-checked that the encoder is in the right channel
>>> numbering:
>>>
>>> //--- decoder information ---
>>> // decoder file =
>>> ../decoders/BSU_Array_6861_RAE1_3h3v_allrad_5200_rE_max_2_band.config
>>> // speaker array name = BSU_Array_6861_RAE1
>>> // horizontal order   = 3

Re: [Sursound] summary of everything (in the guise of a Sennheiser Ambeo mic critical/comparative review)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The comparison was discussed in the Facebook group
Spatial Audio in VR/AR/MR

Best regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm

On 26 Apr 2017 07:57, "Dave Malham" <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:

> Welcome back, mate, always a pleasure!
>
>Dave
>
> On 25 April 2017 at 23:00, David Worrall <worr...@avatar.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> >
> >
> > (I’ve survived moving continents twice since last posting. Now holed up
> > mit Family in Chicago).
> >
> > I’m about 3-4 years behind on ambsionic research and now I’m introducing
> > it to a largely ignorant cohort here.
> >
> >
> >
> > My trusty TetraMic is working well, as long as ambient RF is not too bad.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am interested to see the latest product scrutiny by members of this
> > esteemed group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was initially looking for a review of the Sennheiser Ambeo mic but I
> > must admit to being defeated by the seeming lack of a search function in
> > the surround archives.
> >
> > Is there anywhere/anyone maintaining a searchable version?
> >
> > Failing that, can someone please point me to a decent critical –even
> > comparative-review of this machine?
> >
> >
> >
> > I’d also like to read the list’s latest thoughts on current (3rd order
> > etc) mics.
> >
> >
> >
> > And lastly, (as if that’s not enough) could you all post (or email me)
> > your sites and list what’s special about them?
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry to be a pest, but I have to being the evangelizing process here!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards to you all,
> >
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> > David Worrall, PhD
> >
> > Professor and Chair
> >
> > Audio Arts and Acoustics Department
> >
> > School of Media Arts
> >
> > Columbia College Chicago
> >
> > dworr...@colum.edu
> >
> > 33 E Congress Pkwy Room 601N
> >
> > Chicago, ILLINOIS, USA 60605
> >
> > Tel: (1)312.369.8821 Fax: (1)312.369.8427
> >
> > President, International Community for Auditory Display icad.org
> >
> > personal research/creative practice website: avatar.com.au
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20170425/71597f2f/attachment.html>
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170426/d1d92f94/attachment.html>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170426/8d822846/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] The BBC & Quadrophony in 1973

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

They are "Boutique Speaker" you have to listen at The designers place in
stockholm before ordering. Ingvar Öhman is The designer.
If you want to resurect your swedish IÖ speakers are discussions Here:
http://www.faktiskt.se/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=20=fe0a25f7ffd1b73fb42e330e84150f30

A pair PI-60 Cost around 3000 euro/Usd.
The commercial version is The
http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/guru-qm60-floorstanding-loudspeaker

Bo-Erik

Den 10 jan. 2017 10:47 skrev "Sampo Syreeni" <de...@iki.fi>:

> On 2017-01-10, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>
> For UHJ I have experienced about +20 degrees outside of the speakers.
>>
>
> I've only heard well-decoded UHJ or the "super-stereo" effect once (thanks
> to Eero Aro). But even then I can confirm that even the undecoded stereo
> goes well beyond the speaker positions.
>
> Then the question becomes, why. I like to believe I'm reasonably well-read
> in physical acoustics, psychoacoustics, and ambisonic theory. But somehow I
> *still* don't understand what's *really* going on with the super-stereo
> effect. It has to have something to do with how BHJ was optimized to retain
> LF velocity cues, yes. But that you can reproduce those outside of a
> frontal stereo setup baffles me as well.
>
> But then my speakers are a bit unusual, they are phase linear, if I play
>> back square waves I get recognisable square waves if using a small diameter
>> Omni microphone :-)
>>
>
> Oh. My. God. What speaker do you speak of? How much does it cost? I mean,
> for my native techno-land, that sort of thing would be well ideal. 8)
> --
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front
> +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170110/6b6bd385/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] The BBC & Quadrophony in 1973

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

For UHJ I have experienced about +20 degrees outside of the speakers.
But then my speakers are a bit unusual, they are phase linear, if I play
back square waves I get recognisable square waves if using a small diameter
Omni microphone :-)
Bo-Erik

On 9 Jan 2017 22:18, "Augustine Leudar"  wrote:

Not really simply because binaural is meant for headphones -  transaural is
meant to be the binaural equivalent for loudspeakers. If you think about it
- our ears have their own transfer function - the filter would have to be
tailored to our own HRTFs to remove our HRTF filtering. I suppose you could
try some sort of phase cancellation stuff to stop cross talk - but I really
cant see it working . These guys claim binaural makes good stereo
recordings but you lose the binuaral spatialisation effect :

http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html#anchor720852

For artistic purposes I have long sort to find something that would get
sounds to fly round the back of my head (or even 180 degrees) with just two
loudspeakers but alas I have found nothing yet just many audacious claims
and no results - I would love to be proved wrong ...


>>>
>Å



--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] The BBC & Quadrophony in 1973

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have head from guys at swedish radio that the Finland radio corporation
have done a lot of Ambisonic recordings and still continued to do so.

http://labs.plan8.se/ambisonics-webplayer/
Here is a FOA binaural Web based player that you can use in chrome on most
platforms.
If a number of things falls into placering I hope it will support
Headtracking with a bluetooth connected sensor with this year.

Bo-Erik


Den 9 jan. 2017 12:09 em skrev "Stefan Schreiber" :

> Sampo Syreeni wrote:
>
> On 2017-01-09, Stefan Schreiber wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, correction:
>>>
>>> "I must again ask: What does "vbap" actually mean in your question?" etc.

>>>
>>>
>> It refers to Ville Pulkki's dissertation at Aalto University (then
>> Helsinki University of Technology, fi: Teknillinen korkeakoulu).
>> http://lib.tkk.fi/Diss/2001/isbn9512255324/isbn9512255324.pdf
>>
>> Basically VBAP (vector base amplitude panning) is a form of equal power
>> weighted amplitude panning. Just as your normal stereo panning law would
>> be, only it's in 3D, over widely varying speaker geometry.
>>
>
> Yes, I basically wrote the same, even linking to some Helsinki source
> below dissertation level... :-)
>
>
>> Even if the idea is rather simple, nobody for some reason did it before
>> Ville, really. Definitely didn't take up the task of psychoacoustic
>> evaluation of the idea.
>>
>
> Yep.
>
>
>> By Ville's work, it seems to work out better than expected. I wouldn't be
>> surprised if the likes of Dolby Atmos actually used precisely the VBAP
>> panning law in order to place their discrete sources.
>>
>
>
> Probably! Mpeg-H 3DA certainly makes heavy use of VBAP.
>
>
>> The critique I'd have for such panning laws is that they don't really
>> respect the ambisonic/Gerzon theory, especially at the low frequencies.
>>
>
> Stereophonic panning laws are based on Blumlein's stereo theory, which in
> Wittek's opinion is pretty close to sound fields anyway.
>
> In essence, they work, and necessarily would *have* to work in the high
>> frequency, (ambisonically speaking) high order,sparse array limit. Which is
>> why they mostly work for common music and speech signals.
>>
>
> Disagreed! ILD panning leads to ITD differences at LF. (According to
> Blumlein, not me.)
>
> http://www.hauptmikrofon.de/HW/Wittek_thesis_201207.pdf
>
> In contrast, Blumlein (1933) aimed at a proportional reproduction of the
>> directional image of
>> the recorded scene by recreating the original physical auditory cues. He
>> found that in a
>> stereophonic setup, the intensity5 differences between the loudspeakers
>> are converted into
>> phase differences at the listener’s ears below a certain limit frequency.
>> Above this frequency,
>> intensity differences between the loudspeakers would translate to similar
>> differences between
>> the ears. Thus both important cues for source localisation would be
>> synthesised correctly: the
>> low frequency phase differences and the high frequency intensity
>> differences.
>> Blumlein’s ideas are the basis of the summing localisation theory, see
>> section 3.6.1. They lead
>> to a computable stereophonic reproduction between the loudspeakers. He
>> proposed a coincident
>> microphone setup for capturing intensity differences, consisting of two
>> bidirectional
>> microphones at an angle of 90°, which nowadays is known as the ‘Blumlein
>> pair’.
>>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>> However, they fail to work general speaker arrays fully. Especially at
>> the lower frequencies. Ambisonically speaking, where we'd go with a
>> holistic, whole array, directionally averaged velocity decode.
>>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

To get a good calibration, I expect I will need at least one
known/reference source or sensor?

The reference for me will probably be my coresound Tetramic.

I will probably use Kef eggs as speakers as they are coaxial transducers.
Only at low frequency will The port be offerter.

Have I understood The basics?
I will probably measure outside a calibration Day orborrow a anechoic room
at swedish radio.

Bo-Erik

Den 5 jan. 2017 11:53 fm skrev "umashankar manthravadi" <
umasha...@hotmail.com>:

> Dear fernando
>
>
>
> I forwarded your link to marc Lavallée when you first posted them. My
> intent is that we should have multiple compatible systems for calibrating A
> format mics
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
>
>
> From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano<mailto:na...@ccrma.stanford.edu>
> Sent: 05 January 2017 00:28
> To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:sursound@music.vt.edu>;
> glard...@iol.ie<mailto:glard...@iol.ie>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] brahma
>
>
>
> On 01/02/2017 09:59 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
> > Good luck in your continued effekt.
> >
> > By the way, i have accuired one of your Tetra mic 3d shapeway for 14 mm
> > capsules.
> > I have not yet assembler it.
> > I Wonder is there any software package and description on How to create
> > calibration files for The mic?
> > I will probably have The possibility to get temporary access to a
> anechoic
> > room.
>
> Hi Bo-Erik,
> You could take a look at my project here (I posted about this a while
> back):
>
> https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
> (there is mailing list with 0 posts so far, ha ha..)
>
> See paper here (been working on this for over a year):
> https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/publications/sphear.pdf
>
> The project includes free software (open source, GPL) that runs in
> Matlab and derives a calibration matrix (4x4 matrix of FIR filters) that
> can be used directly with TetraProc (by Fons Adriansen) - or any other
> software that can run the filters.
>
> Just a few days ago I _finally_ managed to get the software into
> somewhat usable shape in that I think (and I'm pretty much wrong every
> time I say this, so...) it is working correctly. The calibration relies
> on having 16 measurements (could be 8) in the horizontal plane around
> the Ambisonics microphone plus one more of a calibration microphone in
> the same exact location. Aliki is used to capture the IRs and edit (trim
> and window) them. DRC (Digital Room Correction) is used to equalize the
> excitation speaker. Then the software I wrote processes those IRs and
> outputs a 4x4 matrix of filters. Many parameters can be tuned. I'll post
> a couple of pictures later...
>
> Documentation (surprise!) is mostly lacking. I hope to remedy that
> somewhat soon (at least a list of the sequence of octave function calls
> you need to get the job done).
>
> My latest prototype with 10mm capsules was hastily measured before I
> left for "vacation" and the plotted results of the calibration are
> looking good. A re-calibration with the latest software of my first
> prototype which captured a full concert also sounds fairly decent.
>
> Anyway,
> Good luck!
> -- Fernando
>
>
>
> > In worst case i Will use the generic calibration from sennheiser :-)
> >
> > The mechanical size of The tetraeder is about right.
> > Bo-Erik
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 2 jan. 2017 9:01 em skrev "Gerard Lardner" <glard...@iol.ie>:
> >
> >> Sorry to hear of the falling-out. I have had some issues with the
> >> build-quality of my Brahma, which was made by Embrace Video, but
> >> nevertheless it remains my 'go-to' mic for choral recording.
> >>
> >> With best wishes for 2017, and for your ongoing Ambisonic microphone
> >> projects,
> >>
> >> Gerard
> >>
> >>
> >> On 02/01/2017 06:57, umashankar manthravadi wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is just an announcement that Nakul Sood and Embrace video will no
> >>> longer be manufacturing or selling Brahma ambisonic microphones. Our
> very
> >>> informal arrangement has come to an end as Nakul Sood demanded 1)I hand
> >>> over complete technology and manufacturing protocols, 2) sign a
> >>> non-disclosure agreement and 3) sign a non-compete agreement. (there
> were
> >>> other demands) I have always worked on Brahma as a shared project, with
> >>> help from many people and I have no desire to sign a non-disclosure
> >>> agreement.
>

Re: [Sursound] Sennheiser Ambeo + compare sound quality.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

If you want to see in the form of graphs why the LP sounds better, you can
try this software recording analyser.

http://www.lts.a.se/lts/masvis

It shows you in graphs how the recording engineer and mostly the mastering
engineers have done their job.
It's interesting to compare different releases of famous and well known
recordings, and what's happened over time.

Bo-Erik

On 15 Sep 2016 10:13, "David Pickett"  wrote:

What we are seeing is that large companies, who in the past would not have
paid royalties to make a Soundfield type of microphone, which might have
supported development of Ambisonics, are now jumping on the band-waggon of
VR because they hope that there may be big money in it.  I suppose also
that the people in those companies who had a "not invented here and
therefore a waste of time" attitude have now retired and corporate memory
has forgotten the 1970s.

One does not need to be a conspiracy theorist to see that "big audio
business" ensured that Ambisonics went to the wall, and is now trying to
make money out of it.  With hindsight, one can see that it was the same
with the analog/digital transition.  In 1982, aided by poor quality control
of LP manufacturing, the CD was supposed to provide "perfect sound
forever"; and nowadays companies are trying to sell punters yet another
incarnation of "Kind of Blue" and other classics in both hi-res AND
expensive vinyl formats.

It has been a salutary experience for me in the past year to buy
musty-smelling LPs, manufactured in the 1960s, from second hand record
stores at knock down prices of around 2 pounds (or 3 EUR) and to discover
that they play on my old Thorens TD124 WITHOUT pops, clicks and crackles,
and with a sound quality that is as good as, and in some cases, audibly
better than the CD or Bluray-Audio reissues of the same recordings.

David


At 09:17 15-09-16, Dave Malham wrote:
>Looks like this is going to be pushed at the AES LA show in a couple of
>weeks - they have a nice picture of it in an advert in the newsletter
>that's come out about the show. So, that means (at least) four commercial
>sources of soundfield type mics now - only 41 years after I saw my very
>first one at the London AES in 1975.
>
> Dave
>
>
>--
>
>As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
>These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
>Dave Malham
>Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
>The University of York
>York YO10 5DD
>UK
>
>'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL:
>15/739f611f/attachment.html>
>___
>Sursound mailing list
>Sursound@music.vt.edu
>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Merging impulse responces, is it workable?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I want to introduce the impulse responce of a real room to a foa or toa
file with panned mono sources in fixed positions.
I have a few questions about how to create the best result in the simplest
way.

If I have the recorded bformat impulse responces of several sources placed
in the same positions where the panned sources will be located.

Questions on how to get most natural result:

Should each positioned sound source be convolved with positional specific
mono room impulse responce or a positional specific bformat RIR?

Can all separately measured bformat positional RIRs be merged as one
bformat RIR in any way, if so how?

Can the convolving be done in bformat after mixing to a single bformat file
or should it be done for each before mixing to bformat?
Should that be done with mono or bformat RIR.

How many convoling instances would be best to use in a setup?

Bo-Erik Sandholm
Stockholm
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160811/4e8d149d/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Conversion from FOA to TOA ? How to and why or not?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I am not convinced of the need for this when having only my own FOA
recordings in my library but...
As most of the discussions are about higher order tools the idea comes to
mind,
What is the simplest or best way to upscale FOA to FOA.

Bo-Erik
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Small multichannel speakers setup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Secondhand hand Kef eggs from online auction sites is my source for
speakers.

Around 300 usd have given me 5 eggs som sometimes even included a sub.

Bo-Erik
Den 13 maj 2016 21:02 skrev "Eric Benjamin" :

> This is all good stuff. I'd like to add some info about the system aspects.
>
> Speaker mounting. This can be nontrivial. I know of one professional
> periphonic installation where the cost of the stands was more than the
> speakers. And mounting speakers at height can be very difficult. If the
> speakers are heavy then it can be difficult and dangerous. I'm right in the
> middle of mounting several 50 lb speakers on the ceiling of my listening
> room. I couldn't find a suitable manufactured mount so I'm fabricating my
> own. My felling is plywood just to be able to support the speakers.
>
> Passive vs powered
> When I built my first system there were very few inexpensive multichannel
> power amplifiers, so powers speakers seamed like the way to go. But powered
> speakers require that you run two cables instead of just one to each
> speaker. I'm still doing that. Now there are (relatively) inexpensive
> amplifiers like the Dayton 1240 that give lots of channels. And Marc's
> suggestion of very inexpensive amplifier modules is tempting. Too bad no
> one makes something like 8 x 15 watts in a 1u package.
>
> Coaxial speakers vs conventional 2-way
> I'm including full-range in with coax. Enthusiasts of coax tout the fact
> that coax speakers are effectively point sources. My belief is that the
> primary advantage is in the off-axis responses. Two way speakers are
> designed to have flat on-axis response, but off axis there are nulls in the
> response which appear above and below the principle axis. But there are
> relatively few coaxial speakers from which to choose.
>
> That's it for now.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 13, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Marc Lavallee  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 13 May 2016 09:44:58 -0700, mgra...@mstvp.com wrote:
> >>> From: "Emanuele Costantini":
> >>> Gallo A'Diva and ORB audio, I think they need an amplfier in order
> >>> to work, which is not an option due to lack of room space.
> >>
> >> I would bet that the spherical speakers and the requisite amplifier
> >> take up not more space than most powered speakers.
> >> If you're going cost conscious you can use the small digital amps
> >> from the likes of SMSL & Parts Express. I have one that delivers
> >> 50w/c in 1/4 of 1 RU. That is, you can fit 4 into a 1 RU space.
> >
> > I use a few identical amp modules, with 2 or more channels per amp:
> >
> http://store3.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board?dir=asc=price
> > In a small room, with small speakers, 15 watts per channel is enough.
> > The same store have a selection of power supplies. My solution is to
> > use the power supply of a dedicated PC, where I installed all the amp
> > modules in the drive bays. The 450W power supply is completely silent,
> > as well as the rest of the PC (no fans at all, only passive cooling).
> > --
> > Marc
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Storage - how do you do yours?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have a freenas ZFS  instance based on low-cost components and ecc memory
and old 2 TB drives.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132097  MB 38usd

AMD Athlon 5350   2.05 GHz Quad core - 44usd

Memory 2*8GB ECC RAM

*http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239370_re=8gb_ecc_ddr3-_-20-239-370-_-Product

  2 * 44usd   *

*LSI controller from ebay*


*http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252167113040?hlpht=true=true=1&_trkparms=clkid%3D4753282283497783251&_qi=RTM1763577

 around 100 usd  LSI disk contoller flashed to non raid v20 bios*

*Cabeling from aliexpress or ebay *

*SFF-8087* connectors, also known as *internal mini SAS*, or even
*iPASS* connectors.
Up to 4 SATA drives can be connected to such a connector with an SFF-8087
to 4xSATA *forward breakout cable*

*450 W power supply *

*And reuse of an old deskside enclosure.*

*Usb stick for the system to boot from, I will change to 32 gb low cost ssd
disk.*

*I use 8 * 2TB disks, but the disk controller support larger than 2 TB
disks. I think a new system using 4 or 5 larger disks might be more optimal
than the 8   2TBytes disks. *

*I will activate this server on crashplan for backup to the cloud
 - 
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/crashplan-update-failing-due-to-old-java-version.42300/
*
 Bo-Erik
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Are mems a good choice for ambisonic microphones?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

The equivalent noise for a single mems mic is 31 dba, the example using 16
mems would give an improvement of 12 dB getting to 19dBa  which is equal to
the Tetramic spec.

i have had a idea that have never gone any where, that is to create a true
b-format mic and using a number of "normal"  mic capsules.

Using mems might even be better`?
we need a omni and 3 eights to get full FOA.

But to create a horizontal b mic we only need a omni and 2 figure 8's.

That could be created using a lot  (16 or 32) of mems on a single circuit
board in one dimension :-)
And a number of the mems signals could be reused to create the needed
signals,

The mems pool signals could be used as insignals to 4 separate beam forming
processing channels to create 4 cardoids ( or should we aim for just 2
figure 8ights instead)  and one omni channel at the same physical point in
space.

Maybe we could even use different diameter mic pools for different
frequency ranges? i think that using a larger diameter pool of mems would
work better in low frequency bands.
In addition the virtual mics created would always be centered at the exact
same physical location.


I am not so certain about the actual mathematics about it, but what would
be the result of having the mems distributed along straight lines in a 3
dimensional cross on thin "sticks" instead of a circular flat pool?

I think this could be  very interesting ways to create mic for different
directionality.

Bo-Erik



2016-04-13 16:25 GMT+02:00 Marc Lavallee :

>
> I'm looking at this product here:
> http://www.invensense.com/products/analog/ics-40300-3/
>
> I wonder if mems are good for building an ambisonic microphone... The
> document named "Low-Noise Directional Studio Microphone Reference
> Design" shows an array of 32 mems.
>
> --
> Marc
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Anyone know anything about this?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Multi direction binaurals?s?

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/T-H-E-Audio/BS-3D

Or beamforming ?
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp==5346535=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D5346535

http://www.mhacoustics.com/products

Bo-Erik
On 8 Apr 2016 16:06, "David Pickett"  wrote:

> At 15:13 08-04-16, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>
> They might have very pragmatic reasons: if they know their equivalent
>> input noise is at 30 dB SPL and their capsules barf at 120, then
>> restricting the word length to 96 dB is a perfectly reasonable decision,
>> given the extremely cramped space and the thermal challenges inside the
>> sphere. It does not leave much room for error though, so they better get
>> their analog gains right.
>>
>
> It is not clear to me what exactly they are aiming to record with this
> device.
>
> David
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] OT Stereo stage width - Was: Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I believe the first effort to work around this with loudspeaker design
called was the BBC dip.
In sweden the stereo error compensation in speaker design is a well known
factor, at least the readers of the forum www.faktiskt.as :-)
and I believe not many of the better loudspeakers in the world are designed
with the target of a linear frequency responce in a anechoic space today.

Bot still a lot of loudspeakers are designed to have specific
characteristic and not to be way to recreate the sound that was recorded.

Bo-Erik

On 30 Mar 2016 21:13, "David Pickett"  wrote:
>
> At 20:44 30-03-16, Eric Benjamin wrote:
>
> >I have two observations from my own research. The first is that the
> >ear signals resulting from equal signals at the loudspeakers is not
> >the same as for a real source located between the loudspeakers. The
> >second is that, if I measure the ear signals for a real listener for
> >the equal loudspeaker signal case, the two ears are different. Why?
> >Because the summation of the signals at the ears is so sensitive that
> >a condition of balance is never achieved. The loudspeakers don't have
> >the same sensitivity, they are not precisely the same distance from
> >the ears, and the listener's head itself isn't precisely symmetrical,
> >isn't located precisely on the centerline, and isn't pointed precisely
> >directly ahead.
>
> What kind of signal were you using when you made these observations,
please?
>
> David
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I will use foa in b-format, as far as i remember ambix is Only Chanel order
different in  for Higher order b-format ..
Den 26 mar 2016 17:49 skrev "Stefan Schreiber" <st...@mail.telepac.pt>:

> Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>
>
>> Rotate foa possibilites - I want headtracker support
>> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015   -  ambix can support
>> headtracker, dont know if possible on vst host - might need reaper
>>
>>
> I don't quite understand. Does it make sense to use the AmbiX convention
> at 1st order? This means you have to bring your B format recordings into
> AmbiX format, in real-time or "offline".
>
> Or do the ambiX plug-ins do the format adjustment in a transparent way?
>
> AmbiX is actually an HOA format, as we know. I see that AmbiX includes 1st
> order, but no SF mike (+ usual FOA software) seems to support this.
>
> So if you use AmbiX software, the best way seems to be to enable some
> transparent B format ---> AmbiX (format) conversion. (And not to transcode
> all your FOA recordings...)
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
>
> http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?page_id=78  -  VST plugins for rotation
>> of FOA - headtracker ?
>>
>>
>
> You see? B format... ;-)
>
> Aternatives for FOA to binaural
>> http://www.noisemakers.fr/  for foa to binaural - support SOFA
>> Ambix
>>
>>
>
> B format...
>
> Have so far not tested the chain :-( - need to have it working on thursday
>> morning :-)
>>
>> One alternative is to use
>> Player (VLC) - ASIO Bridge - Reaper with Ambix and headtracker -
>> Earphones
>>
>>
>> Is there any issues with channel ordering?
>>
>> I also want to compare the different binaural conversion,
>> and the feasability of stereo to binaural conversion with headtracking
>> using foa.
>>
>> Bo-Erik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/7192747a/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

About the virtual speakers in FOA for stereo.
And the ideal listening angle  is real life os +- 23 degrees
The best way to listen to stereo loudspeakers is not with totally linear
speakers :-)
There need to be some modfication to direct sound from the speakers if the
sound to the ears is to be the when listening to a centered sound as when
listening to a mono sound source in the centerr.
This is called the stereo sytem error.

http://www.faktiskt.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=291133

some knowlede might be borrowed from here ?
http://www.ambiophonics.org/

Bo-Erik

2016-03-26 13:36 GMT+01:00 Eero Aro :

> Hi
>
> When you use two channel stereo in the 360 soundfield, pay attention to two
> things.
>
> If you pan the Left and the Right channel of the stereo into directly
> opposite directions,
> say + 90 and - 90 degrees (to left and right), you basicly lose the
> directional cues.
> What you hear is a very spacious sound image. You cannot detect the
> directions of individual phantom sources. If this is what you need, do it.
> It's about
> the same which directions you use, as rotating the opposite panned stereo
> doesn't
> change the illusion practically at all. This technique has been used with
> dummy head
> recordings, and yes, it is spacey, but no good sense of directions.
>
> If you wish that a stereo image is located somewhere around you, it is
> better to pan the
> Left and the Right channel to some certain angle from each other. Try first
> panning the stereo channels to + 30 and - 30 degrees in front, as in a
> normal two
> loudspeaker stereo. You will notice that it sounds a little bit like two
> channel stereo,
> but with worse localization, at least in first order Ambisonics. You can
> then rotate this
> "sector" to some other direction. At the back and at the sides the
> localization is
> not as good as in the front, and it is usually better to narrow down the
> sector.
> This is not because of Ambisonics, it's because our hearing localizes
> phantom sources
> from loudspeaker playback in that way.
>
> I have used this technique in "smearing" the localization of a panned mono
> signal.
> The mono is panned into some direction and the stereo reverb or delays of
> that
> mono signal panned into both sides of the mono image.
>
> if this is the equivalent of fitting a square peg into a round hole...
>>
>
> Or "drilling a square hole with a triangular drill"?   :-)
>
> Not at all. I think your question is very relevant and welcomed. I wish
> there would
> be more discussion about how the soundfield is used in real life.
>
> Eero
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Here is the media flow i will try:

Multichannel player - VLC or other, I want playlist support

http://vbaudio.jcedeveloppement.com/   vbaudio  asio bridge

one or severat :-) out of this list
http://www.sonicprojects.ch/obx/freevsthost.html

Rotate foa possibilites - I want headtracker support
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015   -  ambix can support
headtracker, dont know if possible on vst host - might need reaper
http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?page_id=78  -  VST plugins for rotation
of FOA - headtracker ?

Aternatives for FOA to binaural
http://www.noisemakers.fr/  for foa to binaural - support SOFA
Ambix

Have so far not tested the chain :-( - need to have it working on thursday
morning :-)

One alternative is to use
Player (VLC) - ASIO Bridge - Reaper with Ambix and headtracker -  Earphones


Is there any issues with channel ordering?

I also want to compare the different binaural conversion,
and the feasability of stereo to binaural conversion with headtracking
using foa.

Bo-Erik


2016-03-26 0:29 GMT+01:00 Aaron Heller <hel...@ai.sri.com>:

> From an existing AMB file, any of these will work
>
> .  flac --channel-map=none AJH_eight-positions.amb
>
> .  sox AJH_eight-positions.amb AJH_eight-positions.flac
>
> .  open AMB file in Audacity and then export selecting FLAC format
>
> Note that FLAC is limited to eight channels, so this will work for
> first-order files only.
>
> I'm curious, how do you use VLC Player with VST plugins?
>
> Best...
>
> Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com)
> Menlo Park, CA  US
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone a procedure or description on how to create 4 channel
> > Flac flac files?
> >
> > I want to use VLC as a player on windows to start a vst chain for FOA to
> > binaural processing.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Bo-Erik
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160325/9ec3ef68/attachment.html
> >
> > ___
> > Sursound mailing list
> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160325/c3def004/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/8c76002b/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Has anyone a procedure or description on how to create 4 channel
Flac flac files?

I want to use VLC as a player on windows to start a vst chain for FOA to
binaural processing.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] 3D7.1 speaker setup

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have found that kef kht 2005 eggs are very good value when found second
hand.
The subs have problems with the power supply in the amps.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
On 22 Mar 2016 08:58, "Augustine Leudar"  wrote:

> For basic sound design me the most sensible and basic peripheral array is a
> cube, quad around the listener and quad at height, perhaps with one in the
> middle behind the screen for film dialogue.
>
> On 22 March 2016 at 07:50, Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
> > LS3s are good option and Earl Geddes himself rates them quite highly (as
> > he did the behringer truth) .  I wouldn't limit yourself to ambisonics ,
> > just normal  3d amplitude panning can get you equally good results.It
> also
> > depends why you are mixing in 3D audio - is it for your own listening
> > pleasure ? or is it to create content for games / film etc ?
> >
> > On 22 March 2016 at 03:24, Albert Leusink 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe this got stuck in the haystack, but still would love to know if
> >> there
> >> are any opinions? Thanks !
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> >> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160322/ed9f7708/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Acoustic properties of round rooms ?

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

In the forbidden city in Beijing there is 2 monuments that are round an
have interesting acoustic properties.

The first is a round marble covered area enclosed with a marble balustrade.
When you stand in the centre an speak out loud you hear your own voice in a
way you have not done before. You voice feel like it carries a long way.
You feel like and emperor :-)

The second is an round outside area enlosed with smooth walls, if you
wisper close to the wall the sound of your voice is spread along the wall.

BR Bo-Erik
On 6 Mar 2016 12:53, "Dave Hunt"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Such rooms tend to focus sound in various ways e.g the Whispering Gallery
> in St Paul's Cathedral in London. Two people, widely spaced across the
> diameter, can hold a quiet conversation which is inaudible to others at
> different locations.
>
> I also have the impression that it becomes difficult to perceive the
> locations of sounds from different sources in such spaces.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>
> On 5 Mar 2016, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
>
>>1. Acoustic properties of round rooms ? (Augustine Leudar)
>>2. Re: Acoustic properties of round rooms ? (David Pickett)
>>
>> From: Augustine Leudar 
>> Date: 5 March 2016 14:35:54 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> Subject: [Sursound] Acoustic properties of round rooms ?
>>
>>
>> Ive had a search online but cant really find much literature about this.
>> Can anyone tell me anything about the acoustics of circular rooms/spaces ?
>> How to standing waves behave in circular spaces ?
>>
>> --
>> www.augustineleudar.com
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160305/8f39f7d0/attachment.html
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> From: David Pickett 
>> Date: 5 March 2016 15:04:06 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Acoustic properties of round rooms ?
>>
>>
>> At 15:35 05-03-16, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>
>> >Ive had a search online but cant really find much literature about this.
>> >Can anyone tell me anything about the acoustics of circular rooms/spaces
>> ?
>> >How to standing waves behave in circular spaces ?
>>
>> There is a strong standing wave at f = n/2D, where n = 1, 2, 3, 4, etc,
>> and D is the diameter.  This is most apparent at the sweet spot in the
>> centre!
>>
>> David
>>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160306/5e7951c9/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Wireless Solutions for Binaural Event

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

IF you assume everyone has a smartphone, create a WiFi network and set up a
real-time broadcast to listen to.
That is probably the simplest way.
Bosse
On 23 Feb 2016 03:59, "Chris Timpson" <christimp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the thoughts guys - i'm going to go back through the thread
> and do some further research on all the suggestions :)
>
> Best
> Chris
>
> On 22 February 2016 at 08:52, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > More thoughts - if you are only concerned with all the players
> starting
> > at the same point and can tolerate a small amount of error at the end
> > points (would have to be checked but should be of the order of no more
> than
> > a second or two at the end of half an hour), then I would go down the
> > smartphone route. Avoids a lot of problems with rf signals. Again, the
> guys
> > at Hannah Bruce and Company have done something like it - see
> > http://www.hannahbruce.org/tlott-app.html Note that I am connected with
> > them so am not totally unbiased - tho' I did not do any of the work on
> that
> > project.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 21 February 2016 at 13:59, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Thinking a bit more about this, the Raspberry Pi solution may not, in
> > this
> > > case, be the right one because of power consumption/battery life
> > > considerations, though new "Zero" version may be better in this respect
> > - I
> > > can't find data on this yet, unfortunately.
> > >
> > >
> > > The FM solution with distributed antennas should also work though
> > > licensing would need checking against local regs.
> > >
> > >Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21 February 2016 at 09:37, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Yep, I'm definitely inclined to think that wireless is not the way to
> go
> > >> because of the walls. I'm sure you could work something up with a
> > Rasberry
> > >> Pi as a player with an rf trigger signal to start playing - or even a
> > >> modified mp3 player. If they were all identical (mp3 or Pi player) the
> > xtal
> > >> clocks should easily keep playback within less than a second at the
> end
> > of
> > >> 30 minutes, something that might be problematic with playback off
> mobile
> > >> phones which is another alternative. Note that we've done something
> > similar
> > >> at Hoxton Hall using BLE beacons to lock playback to place rather than
> > time
> > >> (http://www.hannahbruce.org/small-choices.html)
> > >>
> > >> Dave
> > >>
> > >> On 21 February 2016 at 09:23, Augustine Leudar <
> > augustineleu...@gmail.com
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> thinking about it you'll be lucky to get through thick medieval
> prison
> > >>> walls with anything without expensive booster units etc. Your best be
> > >>> might
> > >>> be a bit of fun - make it a bit theatrical and at the begining get
> > >>> everyone
> > >>> to press "play" on their mp3 player at exactly the same time - not
> the
> > >>> most
> > >>> elegant solution - but possibly the best ! Otherwise try the
> > Seinheizers
> > >>> or
> > >>> get the licence for a local fm frequency and hire a transmitter 
> > >>>
> > >>> On 21 February 2016 at 09:11, Augustine Leudar <
> > >>> augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > Seinheizer in ear monitor units are about the best. Youd need to
> test
> > >>> one
> > >>> > pair first though with walls etc
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On 21 February 2016 at 07:32, Bo-Erik Sandholm <
> bosses...@gmail.com>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> Maybe a FM receiver on the earphones and one or more low power FM
> > >>> >> transmitters? Or maybe
> > >>> >> Just search for FM transmitter with google.
> > >>> >> You could use several on same frequency maybe, or just connect
> > several
> > >>> >> external antennas antennas to the device.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Solut

Re: [Sursound] Wireless Solutions for Binaural Event

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstereo+fm+transmitter.TRS0&_nkw=stereo+fm+transmitter&_sacat=0

Use a number of these transmitters, place them where needed for coverage.

Receivers like this ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AM-FM-Portable-2-Band-Digital-Tuning-FM-Radio-Stereo-Receiver-Earphone-DC-5V-/371361019544?hash=item5676d77698:g:c1cAAOSwLVZVgjFU

Headphones of own choice, maybe a low cost solution or all in one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-Stereo-Headphone-Headset-MP3-SD-Card-Music-Player-FM-Radio-LCD-Display-/361193831802?hash=item5418d47d7a:g:fKoAAOSwYGFUwK7U

Bosse
On 21 Feb 2016 10:24, "Augustine Leudar" <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> thinking about it you'll be lucky to get through thick medieval prison
> walls with anything without expensive booster units etc. Your best be might
> be a bit of fun - make it a bit theatrical and at the begining get everyone
> to press "play" on their mp3 player at exactly the same time - not the most
> elegant solution - but possibly the best ! Otherwise try the Seinheizers or
> get the licence for a local fm frequency and hire a transmitter 
>
> On 21 February 2016 at 09:11, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Seinheizer in ear monitor units are about the best. Youd need to test one
> > pair first though with walls etc
> >
> >
> > On 21 February 2016 at 07:32, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe a FM receiver on the earphones and one or more low power FM
> >> transmitters? Or maybe
> >> Just search for FM transmitter with google.
> >> You could use several on same frequency maybe, or just connect several
> >> external antennas antennas to the device.
> >>
> >> Solution depends on your prison :-)
> >>
> >> BR Bo-Erik
> >> On 21 Feb 2016 03:32, "Chris Timpson" <christimp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all
> >> >
> >> > Wondering if anyone has suggestions for a wireless headphone solution?
> >> I'm
> >> > working on a live event that will be a 30mins binaural sound
> experience
> >> in
> >> > a medieval prison for 24 audience members at a time. We need the audio
> >> to
> >> > begin simultaneously for all audience members and they will be walking
> >> > around between 3 locations. The distances aren't huge but quite a few
> >> walls
> >> > etc.
> >> >
> >> > I've been looking at silent disco type headphones but have concerns
> >> about
> >> > the quality and also that the signal apparently is converted to mono
> >> then
> >> > back to stereo during RF transmission. Anyone tested these?
> >> >
> >> > It could be that we use wired headphones with some kind of small
> >> playback
> >> > device that can somehow be remotely triggered to play. There will just
> >> be a
> >> > single audio file that plays from start to finish. Wondering if anyone
> >> has
> >> > tried to build something similar, or perhaps theres an existing
> solution
> >> > i've completely overlooked !?
> >> >
> >> > Many thanks,
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Chris Timpson
> >> > *Director*
> >> > EarFilms
> >> > T: +44 (0)7888 695770
> >> > E: ch...@earfilms.com
> >> >
> >> > www.earfilms.com
> >> > -- next part --
> >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> > URL: <
> >> >
> >>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160220/4b8ebefc/attachment.html
> >> > >
> >> > ___
> >> > Sursound mailing list
> >> > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> >> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >> >
> >> -- next part --
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160221/1265fb9e/attachment.html
> >> >
> >> ___
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> >> edit ac

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Decoder Design Resources

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.sursound/1969/focus=1972
This is a good mail from 2011 from our guru Fons, 6 speakers for horizontal
FOA.
Bosse
On 21 Feb 2016 08:55, "Bo-Erik Sandholm" <bosses...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://search.gmane.org/?query=number+of+speakers+=Fons=gmane.comp.audio.sursound=relevance=and=Znumber%09Zspeaker=Gcomp.audio.sursound-Asandholm---A
>
> The years was 2011 or 2012, hit 2 in this search link gives a indication
> of the subject of the discussion.
> BR Bosse
> On 20 Feb 2016 20:55, "David Pickett" <d...@fugato.com> wrote:
>
>> At 19:53 20-02-16, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>>
>> >It has been verified by listening test that for FOA it is optimal to not
>> >have too many speakers in the horizontal ring. Look at old mails in the
>> >list.
>>
>> This is a tall order: could you specify approx dates, subject lines, or
>> keywords to search on?  Alternatively, please repeat the information here,
>> as it could be of interest.
>>
>> David
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160221/0fb57b9c/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Decoder Design Resources

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

http://search.gmane.org/?query=number+of+speakers+=Fons=gmane.comp.audio.sursound=relevance=and=Znumber%09Zspeaker=Gcomp.audio.sursound-Asandholm---A

The years was 2011 or 2012, hit 2 in this search link gives a indication of
the subject of the discussion.
BR Bosse
On 20 Feb 2016 20:55, "David Pickett" <d...@fugato.com> wrote:

> At 19:53 20-02-16, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:
>
> >It has been verified by listening test that for FOA it is optimal to not
> >have too many speakers in the horizontal ring. Look at old mails in the
> >list.
>
> This is a tall order: could you specify approx dates, subject lines, or
> keywords to search on?  Alternatively, please repeat the information here,
> as it could be of interest.
>
> David
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160221/b3c3e44e/attachment.html>
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Wireless Solutions for Binaural Event

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Maybe a FM receiver on the earphones and one or more low power FM
transmitters? Or maybe
Just search for FM transmitter with google.
You could use several on same frequency maybe, or just connect several
external antennas antennas to the device.

Solution depends on your prison :-)

BR Bo-Erik
On 21 Feb 2016 03:32, "Chris Timpson"  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Wondering if anyone has suggestions for a wireless headphone solution? I'm
> working on a live event that will be a 30mins binaural sound experience in
> a medieval prison for 24 audience members at a time. We need the audio to
> begin simultaneously for all audience members and they will be walking
> around between 3 locations. The distances aren't huge but quite a few walls
> etc.
>
> I've been looking at silent disco type headphones but have concerns about
> the quality and also that the signal apparently is converted to mono then
> back to stereo during RF transmission. Anyone tested these?
>
> It could be that we use wired headphones with some kind of small playback
> device that can somehow be remotely triggered to play. There will just be a
> single audio file that plays from start to finish. Wondering if anyone has
> tried to build something similar, or perhaps theres an existing solution
> i've completely overlooked !?
>
> Many thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> Chris Timpson
> *Director*
> EarFilms
> T: +44 (0)7888 695770
> E: ch...@earfilms.com
>
> www.earfilms.com
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160220/4b8ebefc/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Decoder Design Resources

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Fons calculated a 2 - 6 - 2 (floor - horisontal - roof) for me that might
be even better
as a 4-6-4 when used for FOA.

It has been verified by listening test that for FOA it is optimal to not
have too many speakers in the horizontal ring. Look at old mails in the
list.

I only have FOA to listen to as I use only tetramic to create material for
listening.

Bo-Erik
On 20 Feb 2016 18:23, "Richard Graham"  wrote:

> Hi Archontis,
>
> I would like to design decoders for 2d and 3d arrays, 1st through 3rd
> order (at least), both regular and irregular arrays. C code examples would
> be incredibly helpful as I plan to develop decoders for Pd and Max.
>
> I have already developed some basic ambisonic externals for Pd (
> http://rickygraham.net/?p=176401730 )
> based on encoding and decoding technical notes from Blue Ripple Sound (
> http://www.blueripplesound.com/decoding <
> http://www.blueripplesound.com/decoding>), which provides coefficients
> for basic array set-ups.
>
> Most importantly, I’d like to figure out how to calculate these
> coefficients myself and I am having trouble finding literature on how to do
> that. I have reached out to a few folks who used their own programs to
> calculate coefficients. Essentially, I’d like to build my own program in
> the C programming language.
>
> Shortly, I will have access to a 16-channel ring on the horizontal plane
> and a b-format cube. This system will be modular and configurable into
> irregular setups, too.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ricky
>
> > On Feb 20, 2016, at 12:00 PM, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > there are numerous articles, do you intend to use anything more
> specific? 2D or 3D decoding? regular or irregular setups? Or you are
> looking for the most general case?
> > (when you say in C, do you mean published code examples?)
> > And by low-orders do you mean first-order systems mainly (b-format)?
> Most practical systems at the moment target up to 3rd-order, which are not
> very high orders either, but it makes a difference.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Archontis
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160220/0d8e9399/attachment.html
> >
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Standard aliexpress Bluetooth module v2.0+edr have a data rate of 2.1 Mbit/s
It is not so bad if you can get the sensors UART to push data near that
speed.

- Bo-Erik
On 1 Feb 2016 20:33, "David McGriffy" <da...@mcgriffy.com> wrote:

> Right, 10DOF is with altitude. I'm building a drone controller out of piece
> parts as a demonstration.
>
> Yes, there are certainly ways to achieve low latency convolution, but all
> at the expense of CPU, which is already at a premium when running on
> phones.
>
> I first heard the 20ms figure from some folks working in the VR biz.
> Admittedly, they are more camera and content producers and not headset
> makers, so perhaps this is just a dream goal of theirs. It does make some
> sense to me as that's 50Hz, or the same as some TV refresh rates. Being one
> frame off there can certainly be noticeable, especially with speech vs
> moving lips.
>
> It does seem quite reasonable to me that an audio only app would not be as
> critical. And, of course, the video and audio frame rates don't really
> match anyway, or we'd be getting 882 or 960 sample blocks instead of 128 or
> 512.
>
> I got a GearVR recently and it does work better than Google Cardboard. Much
> of this is just comfort, I think, but I understand that it has its own
> gyros, mostly because they are faster. 'Heresay' is that the Oculus Rift
> samples at least 1000Hz. I have actually written an audio rate rotate that
> could handle this, but it does seem like overkill. At normal head turning
> rates, I find interpolating the rotation within each block to be enough.
>
> Any modern gyro and processor will run fast enough. My little 8-bit
> controllers run their complete flight control loop in under 2ms. The limit
> on update rate, and latency for that matter, will be the wireless link.
> Wifi will be fastest but highest power. Bluetooth lower power but lower
> bandwidth and still wireless. Wired would not only be very fast but could
> provide power.
>
> If you are thinking wireless headphones, remember the latency that that
> introduces. I find my everyday bluetooth headset, built for music, is
> useless for VR because of latency. And if you headphones are going to be
> wired, then running that extra USB might not be too bad.
>
> David McGriffy
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Apperently there exists a head tracking specialized version of the bno055
> > called bno070 - but I cannot find a place to buy this.
> > you can get up to 250 samples / second from that version.
> >
> > Matthias did not complain about the update rate with the DIY headtracker
> > http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
> >
> >
> >
> http://electronicspurchasingstrategies.com/2014/03/06/hillcrest-bosch-sensortec-collaborate-sensor-hub-solution/
> >
> > http://docsfiles.com/pdf_bno070.html
> >
> >
> >
> http://ae-bst.resource.bosch.com/media/_tech/media/product_flyer/Mobile-Hillcrest-Labs-Sensor-Hub-Product-Brief-BNO0701.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_uploads/5c881a2f6eaaa90ed3f3d30fb20852db_Newsflash_BNO077.pdf
> >
> >
> > maybe it is better to not think about that and try and use what I have ?
> >
> > It is easy to find videos about using the bno055 in different projects
> but
> > i do not want videos... have not found links to the software used...
> >
> >
> >
> > Better luck when google github bno055 :-)
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/3faq11/why_we_need_to_move_to_ambisonic_sound_in_the/
> >
> > http://vriscoming.com/daydream-vr/
> >
> > Bo-Erik
> >
> > 2016-02-01 18:56 GMT+01:00 Marc Lavallee <m...@hacklava.net>:
> >
> > > On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 17:46:47 +
> > > Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
> > > > What is a 10 DOF motion sensor??? (Didn't you mean 9DOF?)
> > >
> > > It's 9DOF + barometric pressure, so 9DOF is enough. For more info:
> > >
> >
> http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/WhatIsDegreesOfFreedom6DOF9DOF10DOF11DOF
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marc
> > > ___
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > Sursound@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/ftdi-drivers-break-fake-chips-again/
In the near future serial over USB with windows might be flaky.

Bo-Erik
On 1 Feb 2016 21:53, "Bo-Erik Sandholm" <bosses...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Standard aliexpress Bluetooth module v2.0+edr have a data rate of 2.1
> Mbit/s
> It is not so bad if you can get the sensors UART to push data near that
> speed.
>
> - Bo-Erik
> On 1 Feb 2016 20:33, "David McGriffy" <da...@mcgriffy.com> wrote:
>
>> Right, 10DOF is with altitude. I'm building a drone controller out of
>> piece
>> parts as a demonstration.
>>
>> Yes, there are certainly ways to achieve low latency convolution, but all
>> at the expense of CPU, which is already at a premium when running on
>> phones.
>>
>> I first heard the 20ms figure from some folks working in the VR biz.
>> Admittedly, they are more camera and content producers and not headset
>> makers, so perhaps this is just a dream goal of theirs. It does make some
>> sense to me as that's 50Hz, or the same as some TV refresh rates. Being
>> one
>> frame off there can certainly be noticeable, especially with speech vs
>> moving lips.
>>
>> It does seem quite reasonable to me that an audio only app would not be as
>> critical. And, of course, the video and audio frame rates don't really
>> match anyway, or we'd be getting 882 or 960 sample blocks instead of 128
>> or
>> 512.
>>
>> I got a GearVR recently and it does work better than Google Cardboard.
>> Much
>> of this is just comfort, I think, but I understand that it has its own
>> gyros, mostly because they are faster. 'Heresay' is that the Oculus Rift
>> samples at least 1000Hz. I have actually written an audio rate rotate that
>> could handle this, but it does seem like overkill. At normal head turning
>> rates, I find interpolating the rotation within each block to be enough.
>>
>> Any modern gyro and processor will run fast enough. My little 8-bit
>> controllers run their complete flight control loop in under 2ms. The limit
>> on update rate, and latency for that matter, will be the wireless link.
>> Wifi will be fastest but highest power. Bluetooth lower power but lower
>> bandwidth and still wireless. Wired would not only be very fast but could
>> provide power.
>>
>> If you are thinking wireless headphones, remember the latency that that
>> introduces. I find my everyday bluetooth headset, built for music, is
>> useless for VR because of latency. And if you headphones are going to be
>> wired, then running that extra USB might not be too bad.
>>
>> David McGriffy
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Apperently there exists a head tracking specialized version of the
>> bno055
>> > called bno070 - but I cannot find a place to buy this.
>> > you can get up to 250 samples / second from that version.
>> >
>> > Matthias did not complain about the update rate with the DIY headtracker
>> > http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://electronicspurchasingstrategies.com/2014/03/06/hillcrest-bosch-sensortec-collaborate-sensor-hub-solution/
>> >
>> > http://docsfiles.com/pdf_bno070.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://ae-bst.resource.bosch.com/media/_tech/media/product_flyer/Mobile-Hillcrest-Labs-Sensor-Hub-Product-Brief-BNO0701.pdf
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_uploads/5c881a2f6eaaa90ed3f3d30fb20852db_Newsflash_BNO077.pdf
>> >
>> >
>> > maybe it is better to not think about that and try and use what I have ?
>> >
>> > It is easy to find videos about using the bno055 in different projects
>> but
>> > i do not want videos... have not found links to the software used...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Better luck when google github bno055 :-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/3faq11/why_we_need_to_move_to_ambisonic_sound_in_the/
>> >
>> > http://vriscoming.com/daydream-vr/
>> >
>> > Bo-Erik
>> >
>> > 2016-02-01 18:56 GMT+01:00 Marc Lavallee <m...@hacklava.net>:
>> >
>> > > On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 17:46:47 +
>> > > Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>> > > > What is a 10 DOF motion sensor??? (Didn't you mean 9DOF?)
>> > >
>> > > It's 9DOF + barometric 

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

Apperently there exists a head tracking specialized version of the bno055
called bno070 - but I cannot find a place to buy this.
you can get up to 250 samples / second from that version.

Matthias did not complain about the update rate with the DIY headtracker
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559

http://electronicspurchasingstrategies.com/2014/03/06/hillcrest-bosch-sensortec-collaborate-sensor-hub-solution/

http://docsfiles.com/pdf_bno070.html

http://ae-bst.resource.bosch.com/media/_tech/media/product_flyer/Mobile-Hillcrest-Labs-Sensor-Hub-Product-Brief-BNO0701.pdf

https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_uploads/5c881a2f6eaaa90ed3f3d30fb20852db_Newsflash_BNO077.pdf


maybe it is better to not think about that and try and use what I have ?

It is easy to find videos about using the bno055 in different projects but
i do not want videos... have not found links to the software used...



Better luck when google github bno055 :-)

https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/3faq11/why_we_need_to_move_to_ambisonic_sound_in_the/

http://vriscoming.com/daydream-vr/

Bo-Erik

2016-02-01 18:56 GMT+01:00 Marc Lavallee :

> On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 17:46:47 +
> Stefan Schreiber  wrote:
> > What is a 10 DOF motion sensor??? (Didn't you mean 9DOF?)
>
> It's 9DOF + barometric pressure, so 9DOF is enough. For more info:
> http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/WhatIsDegreesOfFreedom6DOF9DOF10DOF11DOF
>
> --
> Marc
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I copied the wrong link, touch interface is not always good :-)

I was involved in getting Matthias to support the diy head tracker with the
gy-85 an a aurdino nano with USB connectivity, in the current setup we need
a initial calibration and a pd plugin to convert to OSC to talk to Reaper
daw.

Now I saw this module, neat and small no calibration needed.
https://www.tindie.com/products/FabLab/pico-platinchen/

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor/overview

http://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/tree/ide-org-1.6.1.x/libraries/NAxesMotion

Maybe it overkill and have one processor too much in the chain...
Currently the plan is convert to OSC high speed serial in the
pico-platinchen.

I will add a esp-01 esp8266 to connect the serial port and send the OSC
data with UDP WiFi to the PC running Reaper. The WiFi setup will be done in
esp-01 code.

Probably a esp8266 and the BNO055 directly connected could manage it
without the ATmega328P on the pico platinchen.
But currently the cost of for example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adafruit-9-DOF-Absolute-Orientation-IMU-Fusion-Breakout-BNO055-PID-2472-/171821750983?hash=item28015fdac7:g:-wYAAOSwBLlVTrbI
is not cheaper than the pico...

A naked bno055 is 13 usd on ali express but needs a circuit board and be
built to combine with the esp-01.

So 2 small modules and a battery is the system, and be mounted on the
headband of a headset.

I am definitely open for all possible forms of cooperation.
Bo-Erik
On 31 Jan 2016 16:58, "Marc Lavallée" <m...@hacklava.net> wrote:

>
> Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)
>
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
> Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com> wrote :
>
> > I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> > setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> > need initial calibration.
> > This is the new sensor module:
> > https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview
>
> The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?
>
> I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
> This is a good starting point.
>
> > It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> > connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> > http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> >
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html
>
> Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
> direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would be
> desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their usb port
> for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast udp.
>
> Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/
>
> > Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours of
> > operations:
> >
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html
>
> Nice!
>
> > I will send OSC (open sound control
> > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from the
> > sensor.
>
> OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could be
> designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.
>
> > This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor, reducing
> > the soldering need.
>
> There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
> micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply. Going
> usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.
>
> A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have GPIOs,
> so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
>
> http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/
>
> If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
> the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
> It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
> provide 3.2 volts for other boards.
>
> > This should simplify the setup of playback using
> > http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
> > And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?
>
> It could even be used with a browser (chrome) based player.
>
> In the end, the first problem to avoid is latency, and it can invalidate
> many potential solutions.
>
> > This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Bo-Erik