Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Mike, Very good analysis and it describes the situation. The problem is the currency base, which before was stable with the gold standard. Now the currency base is the collective wealth of the society. Rising debts and deficits should in theory mean some adjustments downwards of the currency, but it is more complex than that, because it now has many emotional and political factors. No one can afford a wholesale collapse of the US economy and it takes time to diversify currency dependence. The best for the world economy, would be stable Euro, dollar and yen, with little movement between them. The loss of prosperity in the world, if the dollar fail, would be enormous, but the current evaluation is based on wishful thinking rather than fundamentals. The world is waiting out the current US administration and hope for something better in the future. If that does not happen, then US and the world will be in serious problems. It will also mean that Russia and China would play much more important parts in the world economy. Hakan At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: I don't see a wholesale collapse of the US economy. I do think the dollar will continue to slide until the country elects some Republicans or Democrats. I am not sure what to call the gang in power now; they are most certainly NOT Republicans. I'm also not sure how successful the Iranian oil bourse will be - so they'll get Euros. Big whoop. All major markets are still denominated in dollars. Maybe they can buy nuclear thechnology from France. Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economic system perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have an effect. And whose to say China and the other Asian countries holding out debt won't decide to trim our sails a bit. A very small sell off would devastating. From Safehaven: The US Dollar has been the reserve currency of the world since the end of WW2 and the Bretton Woods Agreement (July 1944). Bretton Woods signalled the end of the British Pound as the worlds reserve currency. The Pound was the principal currency of the world for over 100 years from 1816 to 1933 and it was backed by gold. But at the outset of WW1 Britain and other European countries came off the gold standard because of the financial dislocations caused by the war. The US$ still backed by gold slowly began to replace the faltering British Pound but by 1933 the US joined them in coming off the gold standard due to the deteriorating deflationary conditions of the Great Depression. The period was also marked by the collapse in international trade and financial flows prior To WW2. With Britain and Europe in ruins after WW2 the way was clear for the US, who emerged unscathed by war to assume the role as the world's reserve currency and the king of the international financial markets. And backing the US Dollar was once again convertibility into gold. The Bretton Woods Agreement saw other key features such as fixed but adjustable exchange rates against the US Dollar and the birth of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank. **What will happen to the US as it is flat on its back engaged in Afganistan, Iraq and Iran? With Europe, China and India wait politely as we sort it out? I doubt it. I don't think China is playing for second place. But by the early 1970's growing structural imbalances amongst the world's leading economies led to increased currency speculation, the floating of the Pound Sterling followed by others, and deteriorating confidence in the US Dollar. The gold standard and Bretton Woods collapsed in 1971 and by 1973 the floating exchange rate system took hold. Since then we have been through a roller coaster ride for the US Dollar and numerous other currencies. The US Dollar after falling precipitously through the 1970's regained strength in the 1980's particularly following the election of the Reagan administration in 1980. That ended in 1985 with the Plaza Accord as the strong US Dollar was causing structural imbalances with the growing US twin deficits of budget and trade (sound familiar). In less then two years the US Dollar lost half its value. The 1990's was the decade of currency crises. The British Pound (1992), the Mexican Peso (1994), the Asian contagion (1997) followed by Asian Contagion II in 1998 along with the collapse of the Russian Ruble. This led to the collapse of the giant hedge fund Long Term Capital Management (LTCM) that required the Federal Reserve to bail the banks that were threatened with collapse. To a lesser degree we also had the Turkish Lira crisis and numerous currency and financial woes in Latin America especially Argentina. And least we forget, the Canadian Dollar also fell to new multi year lows although it was never described
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar/question??
There was a post from another list that has me confused. I trust the source so I pay attention but can not understand any possible reasoning here. There are several old/closed gold mines in the U.S. that still have good veins with rich to very rich ore in these veins .. and the veins are substantial and could be easily mined. Apparently they are plentiful enough. These areas with closed mines are not available for purchase and/or lease unless the purchase reason is altered .. which is being done. When a property is obtained and gold has been mined .. and mining activities have become known .. the owners are visited by federals (unidentified) telling them they need to close down because their activity threatens the economy. This plus enough scare tactics seems to have caused this whole thing to become a bit more quietly approached. I have no other information I would be willing to offer other than, because of the source, I believe this is actually happening. .. any other information I have is extremely limited. And, while I believe it's true, I find it beyond my reasoning and/or ability to understand. I know I'm missing massive chunks of information here so I have no information links to connect it. So, pretending that's it's true .. Is there anyone who could possibly shed some light on this. What possible reason could there be? Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Republican / Conservative ??
Not sure where the link came from but it suggested doing some research into the EXACT meaning of the term Neo-Conservative. The White House does refer to themselves as Neo-Conservative and I .. for one .. never bothered to try to understand exactly what that was. I have been reading everything google has to offer .. plus a few other search engines .. and it's not very pretty. .. in reality .. George W. Bush has never lied to us. He told us up front what he was. The noise you hear is my hand slapping my head!! Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on. But it it better than the systems in most of the world, except Western Europe. There is a functioning legal system, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim about China and to some degree India. Our corruption is better managed and on a grander scale - Halliburton. But you don't have to pay a bribe to get driver's license or cross a bridge or open a business. Would you rather own stock in Exxon or Cnooc? Well, figuratively, I wouldn't own oil stocks personally, but one has reasonably open books, and putatively complies with Sarbanes-Oxley, and one can be manipulated at the will of the government. Despite the best efforts of the current administration, our pollution levels are nothing like that of China or India, and the days of major ecological disasters like the Three Gorges Dam are passed. Transparency has suffered mightily under Bush, but Transparency International still rates the US well above China and India. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HHO for welding running your car
If it's all true, it's going to be interesting to see how fast this guy disappears from the face of the planet!"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another water powered car, this oneby Denny Klein in Florida. 100 miles on 4 oz of water, he says. He is developing a Hummer for the Pentagon that'll run on either water or gasoline, according to the newscast on Faux 26 TV.http://youtube.com/watch?v=HF__Qlhtnwssearch=water%20power___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Wildbill Sutton.VT Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
I'd call it Magical Thinking. We're still pretty much the only country in the world that can print money to pay its debts. Gotta wonder if that temptation will rise... Our economic policy is nuts. I personally don't mind a *little* foreign debt, in fact I think it's good; keeps our neighbors invested in keeping the counrty in good shape. Would you blow up the business of someone who owed you money? But I think borrowing a billion dollars a month to finance a war we can't win is crazy. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, Very good analysis and it describes the situation. The problem is the currency base, which before was stable with the gold standard. Now the currency base is the collective wealth of the society. Rising debts and deficits should in theory mean some adjustments downwards of the currency, but it is more complex than that, because it now has many emotional and political factors. No one can afford a wholesale collapse of the US economy and it takes time to diversify currency dependence. The best for the world economy, would be stable Euro, dollar and yen, with little movement between them. The loss of prosperity in the world, if the dollar fail, would be enormous, but the current evaluation is based on wishful thinking rather than fundamentals. The world is waiting out the current US administration and hope for something better in the future. If that does not happen, then US and the world will be in serious problems. It will also mean that Russia and China would play much more important parts in the world economy. Hakan At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: I don't see a wholesale collapse of the US economy. I do think the dollar will continue to slide until the country elects some Republicans or Democrats. I am not sure what to call the gang in power now; they are most certainly NOT Republicans. I'm also not sure how successful the Iranian oil bourse will be - so they'll get Euros. Big whoop. All major markets are still denominated in dollars. Maybe they can buy nuclear thechnology from France. Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economic system perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have an effect. And whose to say China and the other Asian countries holding out debt won't decide to trim our sails a bit. A very small sell off would devastating. From Safehaven: The US Dollar has been the reserve currency of the world since the end of WW2 and the Bretton Woods Agreement (July 1944). Bretton Woods signalled the end of the British Pound as the worlds reserve currency. The Pound was the principal currency of the world for over 100 years from 1816 to 1933 and it was backed by gold. But at the outset of WW1 Britain and other European countries came off the gold standard because of the financial dislocations caused by the war. The US$ still backed by gold slowly began to replace the faltering British Pound but by 1933 the US joined them in coming off the gold standard due to the deteriorating deflationary conditions of the Great Depression. The period was also marked by the collapse in international trade and financial flows prior To WW2. With Britain and Europe in ruins after WW2 the way was clear for the US, who emerged unscathed by war to assume the role as the world's reserve currency and the king of the international financial markets. And backing the US Dollar was once again convertibility into gold. The Bretton Woods Agreement saw other key features such as fixed but adjustable exchange rates against the US Dollar and the birth of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank. **What will happen to the US as it is flat on its back engaged in Afganistan, Iraq and Iran? With Europe, China and India wait politely as we sort it out? I doubt it. I don't think China is playing for second place. But by the early 1970's growing structural imbalances amongst the world's leading economies led to increased currency speculation, the floating of the Pound Sterling followed by others, and deteriorating confidence in the US Dollar. The gold standard and Bretton Woods collapsed in 1971 and by 1973 the floating exchange rate system took hold. Since then we have been through a roller coaster ride for the US Dollar and numerous other currencies. The US Dollar after falling precipitously through the 1970's regained strength in the 1980's particularly following the election of the Reagan administration in 1980. That ended in 1985 with the Plaza Accord as the strong US Dollar was causing structural imbalances with the growing US twin deficits of budget and trade (sound familiar). In less then two years the US Dollar lost half its value. The 1990's was the decade of currency crises. The British Pound (1992), the Mexican Peso
Re: [Biofuel] Republican / Conservative ??
Well, Conservative USED to mean: Pro state's rights - for instance the states were vested with the responsibility to manage education, MARRIAGE, policing and so on. A fiscally sound economy - no debts, and minimal spending on social programs. A strong defense, or, not having your armed forces stretched to the breaking point. Little foreign entanglements. I can't tell you what it means now... Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Not sure where the link came from but it suggested doing some research into the EXACT meaning of the term Neo-Conservative. The White House does refer to themselves as Neo-Conservative and I .. for one .. never bothered to try to understand exactly what that was. I have been reading everything google has to offer .. plus a few other search engines .. and it's not very pretty. .. in reality .. George W. Bush has never lied to us. He told us up front what he was. The noise you hear is my hand slapping my head!! Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
(editorial note; I hate word-wrap) MK DuPree wrote: Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc. Or better, don't waste your time. Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how do you believe the average Joe should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer. Might not like the answer, but I'd like to SNIP how do you believe the average Joe should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? A simple note; I'm 50 years old. I've heard about the pending collapse/failure of the US system my whole life. It's inevitable, and right around the corner. That mindset is just simply part of me. Yet, it doesn't happen, Sure, it's going to happen tomorrow, but we said that yesterday, and the day before. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar/question??
I'm not sure I believe that - there is quite a bit of gold mining going on in the US. Newmont Mining: At the heart of Newmont’s Eastern Nevada operations is the Carlin mine. The mine traces its origins to 1961, when geologists began probing the high desert area around the Tuscarora Mountains in search of finely disseminated gold. By the summer of 1963, drilling had identified a 3-million-ounce deposit, sufficient to justify a mine even at the then prevailing gold price of $35 an ounce. Newmont’s first open pit mine and oxide mill began production in 1965. As additional gold was discovered and new mines opened, the faulted terrain running northwest to southeast from the town of Carlin became known as the Carlin Trend, a 50-mile (80 kilometer) long, 5-mile (8 kilometer) wide belt that contains more than 20 major gold deposits and is the most prolific goldfield in the Western Hemisphere. Newmont’s Carlin Trend operations include several surface and underground mines that supply ore to a variety of Nevada processing facilities. Most of the 1,600 employees reside in Elko, Spring Creek and Carlin, where Newmont is the largest private employer. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: There was a post from another list that has me confused. I trust the source so I pay attention but can not understand any possible reasoning here. There are several old/closed gold mines in the U.S. that still have good veins with rich to very rich ore in these veins .. and the veins are substantial and could be easily mined. Apparently they are plentiful enough. These areas with closed mines are not available for purchase and/or lease unless the purchase reason is altered .. which is being done. When a property is obtained and gold has been mined .. and mining activities have become known .. the owners are visited by federals (unidentified) telling them they need to close down because their activity threatens the economy. This plus enough scare tactics seems to have caused this whole thing to become a bit more quietly approached. I have no other information I would be willing to offer other than, because of the source, I believe this is actually happening. .. any other information I have is extremely limited. And, while I believe it's true, I find it beyond my reasoning and/or ability to understand. I know I'm missing massive chunks of information here so I have no information links to connect it. So, pretending that's it's true .. Is there anyone who could possibly shed some light on this. What possible reason could there be? Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc. Or better, don't waste your time. Or better still, stop killing people so casually and go home, like everybody's telling you to. If you really want to go bombing the hell out of Iran just to fiddle with the Federal Reserve or something you might at least ask them first, it's only polite, it's their collateral after all. Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how do you believe the average Joe should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? I don't think it's inevitable. Or at least I don't think an economic collapse is inevitable. Or not because of the dollar anyway. Energy is a more threatening issue, IMHO. I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer. Might not like the answer, but I'd like to hear. Also, Keith, how will Japan be affected? Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt. Mike DuPree Well, you see, there's this economic crisis here that the Japanese have been struggling to survive in recent years. I guess it will grow even more severe. It's a strange kind of economic crisis, at first glance. For one thing it's not characterised by any shortage of money at any level, if you can picture that. Actually it seems to be impossible to picture it, at least in newspaper articles about the severity of the crisis, which usually show photographs of the stock exchange. No images of suffering or blighted inner cities or rust belts of dead factories rotting away. It's not that they hide it, it's just that there aren't any such things here. When interviewed, ordinary people say they're deeply worried that their retirement income might not be as much as they'd thought. It still won't leave them poor though. There is evidence of the crisis at street level, if you know where to look. In the financial district in Tokyo there are coffee shops that are filled each day with displaced sararimen who've been retrenched. They get up in the morning, grab their suit and attache case and rush off to work as usual even though they don't have a job to go to anymore, because if the truth came out in the neighbourhood the sheer loss of social status would destroy the wife. They're not suffering though except existentially, they get really good pay-offs. Another street-level indicator is how empty the shops are. There's an instant cure available for the sheer burden of hopelessness and depression that comes with trying to live through an economic crisis such as this one. You go shopping. It helps take your mind off things. When it's really serious the shops are full. I guess they'll just go shopping Mike. Sorry... I'm not really joking though. Sweden also has this kind of economic crisis sometimes, that's the envy of the world. They just can't see how rich they are. I laugh at Swedes about it, and they say yes they know, but THIS time it's real. Right. Maybe Switzerland has them too. I'm not sure what Japan's economic policy is. Maybe they haven't got one, it's kind of hard to find an actual policy on anything in Japan. It doesn't seem to be how they do things here. Henry Ford invented the Just In Time inventory strategy of stock keeping, but it was Toyota who put it on the map. It's very Japanese! Maybe it describes Japanese economics quite well too, JIT economics. It might look like they haven't seen something creeping up on them but I wouldn't bank on it. Japan has the world's fifth largest military budget but the military is just about invisible here, and they pay for it without arms exports. I don't think anyone else can manage that, or not easily. Japan is strangely invisible in many ways, but it's one of the three great economic powers in the world, its technological base is the equal of any, and whatever the economic future holds Japan is sure to play a major role in it. They're capable of things the West wouldn't imagine, they have different depths of experience to draw on, they keep proving it. They have a great deal to contribute. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) Joe AltEnergyNetwork wrote: http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951http://www.vheadline.c om/readnews.asp?id=58951 Threat against the US$ comes from countries such as Iran and Venezuela... Former Nordland University (Norway) associate professor, Dr. Abbas Bakhtiar writes: On Wednesday, May 17, the Dow Jones plunged 214 points to
Re: [Biofuel] Republican / Conservative ??
Hello Mary Lynn http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Neo-conservative Neo-conservative - SourceWatch 1 Origins of the neo-conservative movement 2 Neoconservative forums and advocates 2.1 The neoconservatives and the Bush administrations 3 Criticisms of neoconservatives from within the conservative movement 4 Neocon influence in the US media 5 SourceWatch resources 6 Integral External Links 7 Books 7.1 The history of Neoconservatism 8 Incidental Neo-conservative External Links Best Keith Not sure where the link came from but it suggested doing some research into the EXACT meaning of the term Neo-Conservative. The White House does refer to themselves as Neo-Conservative and I .. for one .. never bothered to try to understand exactly what that was. I have been reading everything google has to offer .. plus a few other search engines .. and it's not very pretty. .. in reality .. George W. Bush has never lied to us. He told us up front what he was. The noise you hear is my hand slapping my head!! Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions
Jason Katie, I'm not sure what you mean when you say clean the glycerine for compost. Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD these days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which 70%, by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like to control how much is added to my garden which has done just fine on pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for the other components of the mix. I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as muriatic acid) before I was able to locate phosphoric. I did a few small test batches and got good separation. The difference will be the type of mineral salt that will precipitate out. Ex: Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water HCl + NaOH NaCL (table salt) + H2O The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top and the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom layer. The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of soil nutrients, but I have found that they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ... not only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate . valuable as fertilizer. The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt produced would have more value. ***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water and add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good use. Sorry to get so wordy, but your goofy question is part of a subject that is of great interest to me. The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have called waste products is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. Best of luck to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to clean glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant find any experiments or documentation. am i not looking in the right places? has anyone tried using vinegar? this is really bothering me. any ideas? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Hi Robert, Hakan You are correct, but there is a belief over here that engaging in war is GOOD for the economy, and further, that we're strong enough to sustain ongoing warfare. There's the kind of economics that can't distinguish between swords and ploughshares, and the kind that can. The first is a thing of the past with a hangover, the second is of the future, and the present. Eco-economics has been on the table since Maggie Thatcher put it there by mistake in 1988. It's not going to go away, it's been gaining ground steadily. It's not just we Americans who need to do this--though we are certainly among the most gluttonous energy users on the planet--but the entire economic structure upon which society has been built needs reconsideration. It's a casino, and a casino mentality. The only bit of reality in a casino is the fact that the game's loaded in favour of the house, but I don't think the guys who own Las Vegas think you could run the world that way. Or maybe they do, if it's the Mafia that owns Las Vegas, considering the grey areas you always find everywhere between government, big business and organised crime. The other bit of reality is that it's sucking up the whole world like a vacuum cleaner and vanishing it. Time for real economics. The work of the economist Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen is real economics: http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/georgescu.htm Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, 1906-1994 There's some of his work here, in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30418.html [biofuel] Energy and Economic Myths Selections from Energy and Economic Myths by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen His inheritors are the ecological economists, Herman Daly, Robert Costanza, Michael T. Klare, Joshua Farley and many others. More: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34131.html [biofuel] From Here to Economy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30417.html [biofuel] How Much Is Nature Worth? For You, $33 Trillion http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34130.html [biofuel] At What Cost? - Costanza http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34129.html [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34207.html Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature That's a good read. It has to go that way, and it has been doing so, though it's not centre-screen. It's no more centre-screen that the growth of backyard biodiesel brewing round the world in the last six years, spreading like a weed and suitably out of control for several years now, IMHO. It's a fair comparison because of what you say about energy. If we're going to have an economic collapse I think it might be an energy collapse more than a currency collapse. But I don't think there'll be an economic collapse. If you can't get yourself in shape for localised energy production and supply then you're headed for an economic collapse, but that's your problem, not everyone else's. Not any more, we're leaving that behind. No room for dinosaurs. Even the US army thinks that way these days - they think they'll have to use localised biofuel and bioenergy sources to fight their wars to protect the fossil-fuel supplies. A dinosaur trying on some sheep's clothing. The eco-economic view applies to a lot of areas now. Jules Pretty takes a conservative look at industrialised agriculture in terms of real cost accounting and it turns out to be costing more than it's worth. There's no way of putting it in the black, we'll just have to dump most of it. Pretty also charts a worldwide growth of sustainable farming, small-scale and local. Food miles and fuel miles aren't just talk, the days are numbered for that kind of trade system, with carbon costs hot on its heels, real carbon costs, not the casino stuff they're playing with now. Actually eco-economics does reach centre-screen. It highlights the externalisations of business-as-usual instead of hiding them. A lot of people started to see things that way after Hurricane Katrina. The military's hardly an answer. It can do damage but it can't *win* anything, it's not a sword at all, just a shovel to dig your own grave with. And other people's too. It's hard for Americans to see it that way, it's all been glorified from birth. Glorified to death. Best Keith Hakan Falk wrote: Robert, Now we are starting to get somewhere and thank you for posting a good and fuller description of the problem. You're welcome! There are many problems with the US economy, one is the belief that they could export services to balance the lack of production. The markets for US services have failed to materialize. As pointed out, the cost of engaging in war, only worsen the situation. You are correct, but there is a belief over here that engaging in war is GOOD for the economy, and further, that we're strong enough to
Re: [Biofuel] bio diesel burners
Hi R. I did burn biodiesel in my multifuel backpacking stove and it works beautifully once it gets lit but I had to heat the generator tube with a propane torch to get it hot enough to vaporize the methyl esters. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am considering making a bio diesel burner to fit into a 50 gallon gas water heater that will act as my WVO drying / preheat tank. Has anybody done this? I wonder if a small version of the mother earth waste oil burner will work. I also thought i read somewhere on the JTF website or on the mailing list that somebody burned biodiesel thru a camp stove. Can anybody give me some input on this idea? r. allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Mike, I would not take issue on pollution per facility, but pollution per nation. US is very much larger polluter per capita than both China and India together. US is also larger polluter in absolute terms,so it is not surprising that US did not sign Kyoto. Even Bush said that it would be too expensive to meet the Kyoto targets, which means that US is way above them, otherwise it would not be that costly. Looking at GDP levels, if anyone could afford a clean up, it is US. I also think that the US glass house is damaged beyond repair, with all the stone throwing that it suffered. As usual, it is more about image, than practical realities. Hakan At 13:56 31/05/2006, you wrote: I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on. But it it better than the systems in most of the world, except Western Europe. There is a functioning legal system, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim about China and to some degree India. Our corruption is better managed and on a grander scale - Halliburton. But you don't have to pay a bribe to get driver's license or cross a bridge or open a business. Would you rather own stock in Exxon or Cnooc? Well, figuratively, I wouldn't own oil stocks personally, but one has reasonably open books, and putatively complies with Sarbanes-Oxley, and one can be manipulated at the will of the government. Despite the best efforts of the current administration, our pollution levels are nothing like that of China or India, and the days of major ecological disasters like the Three Gorges Dam are passed. Transparency has suffered mightily under Bush, but Transparency International still rates the US well above China and India. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Hi Mike; Well there is considerable uncertainty and debate about what form the restructuring will take but little argument that it is going to happen sooner or later. The best strategy is therefore also unknown but I think one can still plan for some general conditions which may be present in any scenario. In times of hyper inflation things are valued more in terms of what they are and the potentialities that they represent in terms of basic needs than they are in our society in present times. Therefore anyone who can provide for themselves in areas of basic needs may be considered rich in some regards. The ability to provide for your own food requirements can be very important. The ability to obtain and render water safe for consumption ranks right up there if you are independant with it. The ability to produce some energy may be an extravagance depending on the severity of the situation or it may mean the difference between living totally hand to mouth and having some extra wealth which can be used for special needs that have to be obtained from some external source. Therefore converting cash to assets that have these intrinsic value now before the hyperinflation hits ( if that is what is going to happen) may be a very wise investment. It may be impossible to obtain these items during hard times due to radical changes in supply and demand. So land, water and energy figure pretty highly in my mind in any doomsday scenario. I remember in 1998 when a massive ice storm left my parents and a huge section of eastern Ontario and Quebec without electricity for 14 days in the cold of January just how things changed in surprising ways. I managed to buy the second last generator that was available to be bought in the eastern half of this country and it had to be shipped to me from Winnipeg Manitoba (probably 2000 km away). There was no electricity anywhere, and neighborhoods were eerily silent. There was no trafic since gas stations were down and gas could only be pumped by hand but cash registers weren't working so many places would not even sell anything. A running generator could be heard for blocks and some were stolen by thieves. In Walkerton Ontario when the municipal water supply became tainted with e. Coli there was a different form of pandemonium. Anyone who had a UV sterilizer and R.O. membrane like me didn't even have to bat an eye but some folks died and many suffer health problems ever since. Depending on how bad things get, having some valuable assets like these may mean a need to defend them as in the example of the generator. I am starting to sound like a whacko survivalist as you sometimes see depicted that way. I don't have a fallout shelter or anything like that but I am definitely working towards ideas that will be of value in situations where I have to be self reliant. I want to get a methane digester going and some passive solar as well as PV on the roof as soon as I can. I plan to do these things modestly just as I have with my BD setup. I don't aspire to be able to get off the grid with my current needs but to be able to have some small amount of power for special needs if the power goes out and for now it can just be a supplement to reduce my environmental footprint. This post is getting long so I am going to cut it off here. Best regards; Joe Cheers Joe MK DuPree wrote: Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc. Or better, don't waste your time. Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how do you believe the average Joe should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer. Might not like the answer, but I'd like to hear. Also, Keith, how will Japan be affected? Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) Joe AltEnergyNetwork wrote: snip But how long can this continue before the world loose faith in the greenback, sending it crashing to unimaginable levels. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Keith, After I finished the last email on this issue, I went to take a coffee and turned on CNN. When CNN came on, I learned that Bush had decided to devaluate the dollar by letting it float downwards without any support. I had no idea about that this was happening, but I had not followed the news for a day or so. It confirms however that our discussions on this issue is very actual and now it is only to see at what level the dollar will stabilize. Fortunes will be lost, mostly by foreigners, and Bush managed to hurt his country once more, but it was long overdue anyway. In reality he make the world pay for his war in Iraq. I had no dollar based assets, but I guess that there are many who are very upset. Hakan At 14:10 31/05/2006, you wrote: Hi Robert, Hakan You are correct, but there is a belief over here that engaging in war is GOOD for the economy, and further, that we're strong enough to sustain ongoing warfare. There's the kind of economics that can't distinguish between swords and ploughshares, and the kind that can. The first is a thing of the past with a hangover, the second is of the future, and the present. Eco-economics has been on the table since Maggie Thatcher put it there by mistake in 1988. It's not going to go away, it's been gaining ground steadily. It's not just we Americans who need to do this--though we are certainly among the most gluttonous energy users on the planet--but the entire economic structure upon which society has been built needs reconsideration. It's a casino, and a casino mentality. The only bit of reality in a casino is the fact that the game's loaded in favour of the house, but I don't think the guys who own Las Vegas think you could run the world that way. Or maybe they do, if it's the Mafia that owns Las Vegas, considering the grey areas you always find everywhere between government, big business and organised crime. The other bit of reality is that it's sucking up the whole world like a vacuum cleaner and vanishing it. Time for real economics. The work of the economist Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen is real economics: http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/georgescu.htm Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, 1906-1994 There's some of his work here, in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30418.html [biofuel] Energy and Economic Myths Selections from Energy and Economic Myths by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen His inheritors are the ecological economists, Herman Daly, Robert Costanza, Michael T. Klare, Joshua Farley and many others. More: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34131.html [biofuel] From Here to Economy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30417.html [biofuel] How Much Is Nature Worth? For You, $33 Trillion http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34130.html [biofuel] At What Cost? - Costanza http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34129.html [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34207.html Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature That's a good read. It has to go that way, and it has been doing so, though it's not centre-screen. It's no more centre-screen that the growth of backyard biodiesel brewing round the world in the last six years, spreading like a weed and suitably out of control for several years now, IMHO. It's a fair comparison because of what you say about energy. If we're going to have an economic collapse I think it might be an energy collapse more than a currency collapse. But I don't think there'll be an economic collapse. If you can't get yourself in shape for localised energy production and supply then you're headed for an economic collapse, but that's your problem, not everyone else's. Not any more, we're leaving that behind. No room for dinosaurs. Even the US army thinks that way these days - they think they'll have to use localised biofuel and bioenergy sources to fight their wars to protect the fossil-fuel supplies. A dinosaur trying on some sheep's clothing. The eco-economic view applies to a lot of areas now. Jules Pretty takes a conservative look at industrialised agriculture in terms of real cost accounting and it turns out to be costing more than it's worth. There's no way of putting it in the black, we'll just have to dump most of it. Pretty also charts a worldwide growth of sustainable farming, small-scale and local. Food miles and fuel miles aren't just talk, the days are numbered for that kind of trade system, with carbon costs hot on its heels, real carbon costs, not the casino stuff they're playing with now. Actually eco-economics does reach centre-screen. It highlights the externalisations of business-as-usual instead of hiding them. A lot of people started to see things that way after Hurricane Katrina. The military's hardly an answer. It can do damage but it can't *win* anything, it's not a sword at all, just a shovel
[Biofuel] tropical regions expanding, climatologist say
Tropical Regions Expanding, Climatologists Say http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1149035378.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed
They changed the name toThe Nohomers so they are a little harder to kept track of. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of John BealeSent: May 30, 2006 1:27 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed See, now I was taught that it was the Stonecutters who held back the electric car.What about that?-JohnOn May 28, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Kirk McLoren wrote: Something even bigger than automobiles (solar thermal)was also killed. Mike MacCormack the senator from the state of Washington and former research scientist at Hanford got the "Solar Energy Demonstration Act" passed and I believe the aformentioned senator, also known by the nickname "Mr Atomic Energy", was very active in SEDAs implementation. The act basically placed such burdensome tests on solar products that only multimegadollar corporations could afford to enter the marketplace. Mr AtomicEnergy put an icepick into the heart of solar and to this date the industry has not recovered.KirkAltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who Killed The Electric Car? Hint: It Was Gassed http://www.telluridewatch.com/052606/electric.htm It was among the fastest, most efficient production cars everbuilt. It ran on electricity, produced no emissions andcatapulted American technology to the forefront of theautomotive industry. The lucky few who drove it neverwanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crushits fleet of EV1 electric vehicles in the Arizona desert?Local director Chris Pain’s film Who Killed The Electric Car?chronicles the life and mysterious death of the GM EV1,examining its cultural and economic ripple effects and howthey reverberated through the halls of government and bigbusiness. Inspired by his own experience with the EV1 in 1997, Pain set out to solve the mystery of the car’sdisappearance from the American marketplace. His firstfeature documentary as a director, Chris Paine’s 90-minutefilm will be screened at Mountainfilm on Sunday at the PalmTheatre at 9 p.m., followed by a question and answer session.The year is 1990. California is in a pollution crisis. Smogthreatens public health. Desperate for a solution, theCalifornia Air Resources Board targets the source of itsproblem: auto exhaust. Inspired by a recent announcementfrom General Motors about an electric vehicle prototype,the Zero Emissions Mandate was born. It required 2 percentof new vehicles sold in California to be emission-free by1998, 10 percent by 2003. It is the most radical smog-fightingmandate since the catalytic converter.With a jump on the competition thanks to its speed-record-breakingelectric concept car, GM launched its EV1 electric vehicle in1996. It was a revolutionary modern car, requiring no gas, nooil changes, no mufflers, and rare brake maintenance(a billion-dollar industry unto itself). A typical maintenancecheckup for the EV1 consisted of replenishing the windshieldwasher fluid and a tire rotation.But the fanfare surrounding the EV1’s launch disappeared andthe cars followed. Was it lack of consumer demand as carmakersclaimed, or were other persuasive forces at work?Fast forward to six years later... The fleet is gone. EV chargingstations dot the California landscape like tombstones,collecting dust and spider webs. How could this happen? Didanyone bother to examine the evidence? Yes, in fact, someonedid. And it was murder.The electric car threatened the status quo. The truth behindits demise resembles the climactic outcome of AgathaChristie’s Murder on the Orient Express: multiple suspects,each taking their turn with the knife.Who Killed The Electric Car? interviews and investigatesautomakers, legislators, engineers, consumers and carenthusiasts from Los Angeles to Detroit, to work throughmotives and alibis, and to piece the complex puzzle together.The film is not just about the EV1. It’s about how thisallegory for failure – reflected in today’s oil pricesand air quality – can also be a shining symbol of society’spotential to better itself and the world around it. Whilethere’s plenty of outrage for lost time, there’s also timefor renewal as technology is reborn inWho Killed The Electric Car?Get your daily alternative energy newsAlternate Energy Resource Network1000+ news sources-resourcesupdated dailyhttp://www.alternate-energy.netNext Generation Gridhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/Tomorrow-energyhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/Alternative Energy
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
I think the 5/30/06 post and attached article from AltEnergyNetwork did a excellent job explaining the administration's decision making process, the U.S. economy and how it compares to similar situations in other countries. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63309.html I also think it's possible that the weakening of the U.S. Dollar is the result of a concerted effort by foreign entities (governments and NGO's) and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of Hegemony or Survival. For the first time, concrete alliances have been taking shape at the grassroots level . These are impressive developments, rich in opportunity. And they have had effects, in rhetorical and sometimes policy changes. When he says policy changes, I read it to mean within the United States. However, I think that a popular movement to identify the U.S. government as the single biggest threat to our survival as a species, is coalescing in foreign policy decisions around the world. The result is an indication of US economic isolation with hopes of slowing military buildup and globalization. (IMO) this adds to Mike Weaver's position: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63345.html Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economic system perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have an effect. White House policy is both self destructive and antagonistic, attracting the attention of others to attack. Military spending/use, energy, the environment, you name it, the U.S. government is enormously wasteful and destructive (not that I need to tell anyone in this forum) and people are taking notice. Like Keith wrote: Eco-economics has been on the table since Maggie Thatcher put it there by mistake in 1988. It's not going to go away, it's been gaining ground steadily. It's about holding back the most destructive empire in human history - destructive for what it does and doesn't do. Re: WMD's - how U.S. policy threatens our survival. In addition to U.S. engagement in continuous military conflicts since WWII, the Bush administration has vetoed or avoided discussion on nearly every international effort to limit nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, has militarized space in violation of past nuclear weapons treatise and has prompted other countries to react and build more arms. U.S. spending on nuclear weapons has surpassed the entire state department budget. The U.S. Pharmaceutical industry is helping develop vaccine resistant Anthrax (for example) and an arms race for biological weapons is already underway. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, I would not take issue on pollution per facility, but pollution per nation. US is very much larger polluter per capita than both China and India together. US is also larger polluter in absolute terms,so it is not surprising that US did not sign Kyoto. Even Bush said that it would be too expensive to meet the Kyoto targets, which means that US is way above them, otherwise it would not be that costly. Looking at GDP levels, if anyone could afford a clean up, it is US. I also think that the US glass house is damaged beyond repair, with all the stone throwing that it suffered. As usual, it is more about image, than practical realities. Hakan At 13:56 31/05/2006, you wrote: I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on. But it it better than the systems in most of the world, except Western Europe. There is a functioning legal system, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim about China and to some degree India. Our corruption is better managed and on a grander scale - Halliburton. But you don't have to pay a bribe to get driver's license or cross a bridge or open a business. Would you rather own stock in Exxon or Cnooc? Well, figuratively, I wouldn't own oil stocks personally, but one has reasonably open books, and putatively complies with Sarbanes-Oxley, and one can be manipulated at the will of the government. Despite the best efforts of the current administration, our pollution levels are nothing like that of China or India, and the days of major ecological disasters like the Three Gorges Dam are passed. Transparency has suffered mightily under Bush, but Transparency International still rates the US well above China and India. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL ___ Biofuel
[Biofuel] The motorcycle of the future?
http://snipurl.com/qr29 Planx Norton Waddya mean it doesn't work? Don't be blinded by such mere details, the point is it doesn't use any fuel. Actually the mere detail is fantastic, you can spend a long time looking at that. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Hello Mike R. I think the 5/30/06 post and attached article from AltEnergyNetwork did a excellent job explaining the administration's decision making process, the U.S. economy and how it compares to similar situations in other countries. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63309.html Yes it does, but there's been a lot more about it previously, especially in comments on the implications of Iran's new oil bourse, there are other points of view, and I think they all have to be assessed. I also think it's possible that the weakening of the U.S. Dollar is the result of a concerted effort by foreign entities (governments and NGO's) and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of Hegemony or Survival. For the first time, concrete alliances have been taking shape at the grassroots level . These are impressive developments, rich in opportunity. And they have had effects, in rhetorical and sometimes policy changes. When he says policy changes, I read it to mean within the United States. However, I think that a popular movement to identify the U.S. government as the single biggest threat to our survival as a species, is coalescing in foreign policy decisions around the world. The result is an indication of US economic isolation with hopes of slowing military buildup and globalization. I think you credit them with more strategy than they deserve. I don't think Chomsky is talking about the same thing. He also said this, with the same sentence in it: The harmful effects of the corporate globalisation project have led to mass popular protest and activism in the South, later joined by major sectors of the rich industrial societies, hence becoming harder to ignore. For the first time concrete alliances have been taking shape at a grassroots level. It is fair to say, I think, that the future of our endangered species may be determined in no small measure by how these popular forces evolve. He means the other superpower, the Social Forum in Porto Alegre for example, and I'm sure the policy changes have more to do with the World Bank/IMF/WTO than with the US government or other governments. (IMO) this adds to Mike Weaver's position: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63345.html Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economic system perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have an effect. I think it adds to Gabriel Kolko's position and mine 18 months ago, and since - Vote Bush! LOL! ... But a Kerry win would still have left you with the duopoly party, followed by business-as-usual, especially on the foreign policy front. There's not much essential difference between the two parties' foreign policy, eg between Clinton's and Bush's, it's mostly just the Bushies' outrageous in-your-face style of it that's different. I agreed with Gabriel Kolko at the time, that Bush might be the lesser of two evils, but while Kolko was thinking of other nations and international alliances I was thinking of the Other Superpower. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg38234.html [Biofuel] The Coming Elections and the Future of American Global Power 16 Sep 2004 Also this: Gabriel Kolko -- in this writer's estimation, our most indispensable historian -- argues in a recent piece on the Counterpunch website that because a second Bush term would possibly intensify the international enmity elicited by its bumbling unilateralism, it could be preferable to a Kerry Administration: 'Kerry is neither articulate nor impressive as a candidate or as someone who is likely to formulate an alternative to Bush's foreign and defense policies, which have much more in common with Clinton's than they have differences. To be critical of Bush is scarcely justification for wishful thinking about Kerry. Since 1947, the foreign policies of the Democrats and Republicans have been essentially consensual on crucial issues -- bipartisan as both parties phrase it -- but they often utilize quite different rhetoric. 'Critics of the existing foreign or domestic order will not take over Washington this November. As dangerous as it is, Bush's reelection may be a lesser evil because he is much more likely to continue the destruction of the alliance system that is so crucial to American power...' It is becoming clear that all-too-many Kerry supporters view November's plebiscite as an end in itself. That, if Kerry should prevail, the reaction of a too-large proportion of his voters will be overwhelming relief -- Whew! That was a close one! -- followed by a repeat of Clinton-era apathy and apologetics. Whereas, a Bush victory couldn't but propagate the amazingly diverse and widespread lobbying and protest movement which saw the New York Times declare public political involvement the World's second superpower. From the unprecedented pre-war protest mobilisations, to the hundred-plus official municipal renunciations of the PATRIOT
Re: [Biofuel] Castorbean supply
if you start growing castor beans, look out for the you may be put on a terrorist watch list. Ricin is made from castor beans. As I recall one of the early claims of the discovery of a WMD cache in Iraq was a warehouse full of castor beans. Never mind that the oil has numerous non-lethal commercial uses. Jason Katie wrote: i have here in my grubby little mitt, twenty castor beans, ready to grow. i recieved them from a flower supplier who professes to grow everything organically in compost and topsoil. (www.dianesseeds.com) she deals mostly in flowers, but castor plants are considered decorative so while not exactly cost effective initially, 20 plants can easily offer up scores of seeds. does anyone see a problem with my logic pattern? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Mike, The weakening of the dollar is not a result of any concerted foreign effort. The dollar is amazingly strong, considering that US breaks all fundamentals. It is probably the opposite, it is a concerted effort to try to hold the value of the dollar high, when it according to all financial rules and fundamentals should be much lower. I find it a little bit amazing that in the text below is an attempt to blame other countries for allowing US to break all the rules. I would not surprised to hear such things from children mom/dad said we could do it and maybe I am not that surprised to hear it from US. It is however wrong to try to find any to blame other then US itself. I do not see that US is under any attack, it is only taking the consequences of its own doing. I see no reason to develop any mental feelings like being pursued over it. It is not any background for see what they are doing to us when it should be see what we are doing to ourselves. On the other hand, conspiration theories are favorite themes for Americans and they will soon find someone who is making it to the Americans, so the Americans will make it to themselves. Do not misunderstand me, I like Americans very much and I also like children very much. I wonder if there are any connections in this. How they could elect Bush is beyond me, but he is there. Hakan At 17:05 31/05/2006, you wrote: I think the 5/30/06 post and attached article from AltEnergyNetwork did a excellent job explaining the administration's decision making process, the U.S. economy and how it compares to similar situations in other countries. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63309.html I also think it's possible that the weakening of the U.S. Dollar is the result of a concerted effort by foreign entities (governments and NGO's) and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of Hegemony or Survival. For the first time, concrete alliances have been taking shape at the grassroots level . These are impressive developments, rich in opportunity. And they have had effects, in rhetorical and sometimes policy changes. When he says policy changes, I read it to mean within the United States. However, I think that a popular movement to identify the U.S. government as the single biggest threat to our survival as a species, is coalescing in foreign policy decisions around the world. The result is an indication of US economic isolation with hopes of slowing military buildup and globalization. (IMO) this adds to Mike Weaver's position: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63345.html Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economic system perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have an effect. White House policy is both self destructive and antagonistic, attracting the attention of others to attack. Military spending/use, energy, the environment, you name it, the U.S. government is enormously wasteful and destructive (not that I need to tell anyone in this forum) and people are taking notice. Like Keith wrote: Eco-economics has been on the table since Maggie Thatcher put it there by mistake in 1988. It's not going to go away, it's been gaining ground steadily. It's about holding back the most destructive empire in human history - destructive for what it does and doesn't do. Re: WMD's - how U.S. policy threatens our survival. In addition to U.S. engagement in continuous military conflicts since WWII, the Bush administration has vetoed or avoided discussion on nearly every international effort to limit nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, has militarized space in violation of past nuclear weapons treatise and has prompted other countries to react and build more arms. U.S. spending on nuclear weapons has surpassed the entire state department budget. The U.S. Pharmaceutical industry is helping develop vaccine resistant Anthrax (for example) and an arms race for biological weapons is already underway. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, I would not take issue on pollution per facility, but pollution per nation. US is very much larger polluter per capita than both China and India together. US is also larger polluter in absolute terms,so it is not surprising that US did not sign Kyoto. Even Bush said that it would be too expensive to meet the Kyoto targets, which means that US is way above them, otherwise it would not be that costly. Looking at GDP levels, if anyone could afford a clean up, it is US. I also think that the US glass house is damaged beyond repair, with all the stone throwing that it suffered. As usual, it is more about image, than practical realities. Hakan At 13:56 31/05/2006, you wrote: I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on.
[Biofuel] was ...who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed
Hi all, Here are a couple of responses to who killed the electric car, one from an ex GM employee revealing some interesting insights into the workings of GM, regards tallex From: laura belin [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Marc Franke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun May 28, 2006 9:15 am Subject: RE: [irenew] who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed I worked for GM for 17 years. I got my engineering degree from their own corporately owned, private but fully accredited college; General Motors Institute (GMI). The problem at GM runs deep and can be somewhat subtle. As a student, I alternated work in my home division (Delco Products; made shock absorbers and electric motors) and school at GMI in Flint, Mi. I would spend 6 weeks in a work assignment in the plant (Dayton, Oh) and 6 weeks in school in Flint. I then worked a 5th year Practicum entirely in the plant before getting my degree. My 6 weeks in the plant would always be in a different department. It might be Personnel, then Manufacturing, then Product Engineering, etc. In my 4 years I basically did 16 internships traveling through every department in my division. By the time a student graduated from GMI they were schooled not only in the theory of Engineering, they also had a complete education in the practice of how GM conducted its business and accomplished its goals. GMI grads were almost always made an offer of permanent employment and the conventional wisdom was that you were set for life. Many of GMs managers came from the ranks of these GMI students. That, was/is part of the problem. There is a GM way of doing things that each GMI grad learns. Taking risks is discouraged. There is a lot of emphasis on business, management and engineering competence, but very little on leadership or vision. Fitting in with GM group think is highly encouraged. So much so that it is hard to get ahead any other way than to fit in. GM is not unique in that regard. Large corporations often fit this mold. How does this impact the EV1 electric car experience? The EV1 would have been a startling new direction for GM. It was only pursued at all because it was the brain child of the GM Chairman of the Board; Roger Smith. When a top GM executive pushes something new, it gets done. If that executive stops pushing, the fact that it is new, means that corporate inertia will begin to resist the change. See this auto industry trade journal (Wards Auto World) for a discussion of Roger: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_n7_v26/ai_10395219 In the article, Roger says that most people underestimate the opportunities for such a vehicle referring to the EV1; how true and how prophetic. By most people I think that Roger was referring all of those carefully schooled GM executives and managers that were all encouraged to think the same. There is book called The Car That Could that chronicles the development of the EV1. It is a very interesting read. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067942105X/102-3430365-2309706?v=glancen=283155 In the end, I believe that GM simply could not make the mental shift to a world of electric vehicles. Many within GM probably felt threatened by the EV1. Low maintenance electric vehicles (no spark plugs, mufflers, oil changes, tune ups, minimal brake pad wear, etc.) means existing business lines and profits are threatened all over GM. Once Roger Smith retired, the vast momentum of GM direction began to assert itself leading eventually to the intentional destruction of the EV1; even so far as to the crushing of all of the existing vehicles. Some company will eventually mass produce an electric vehicle and we will all wonder why it took so long. It will not likely be GM. It could have been. It is a terrible shame for our country, our economy and the many GM employees that now have to sit by and see their once mighty corporation be slowly dismantled. As a former GM employee, I feel that sadness. A few years following the Arab Oil Embargo of the early 70s I submitted a sketch of a gas/hybrid electric power train design to my manager. It would have used electric motors that our division built. After a few days, my manager came back to me and kindly counseled me not to do that again for it could hurt my career opportunities. You see, my engineering job was to make factory processes more efficient not to lead product design in some new direction. So, now, I no longer work for GM. I do drive a diesel car (designed in Germany) and most of my miles are fueled by 100% American-made BioDiesel. I can buy no such car from my former company. Marc. Marc Franke Renewable energy advocate Ely, Iowa Date: Sun May 28, 2006 12:32 am Subject: Re: [irenew] who killed the electric car? hint: it was gassed laurabelin My husband had a high school friend who was working for GM in the early 1990s on this
[Biofuel] Bush cut energy efficiency budgets
So, I quess this is all part of Bush's master plan to wean the country off of oil (strong sarcasm intended) Cutting energy efficiency programs has got to be one of the most stupid, short sighted actions this administration could take. Unbelievable! http://www.postchronicle.com/news/science/article_21220975.shtml Bush administration cuts energy plan Bush Administration Cuts Energy Plans by UPI Wire May 31, 2006 WASHINGTON, May 31, 2006 (UPI) -- Conservationists are reportedly upset by a Bush administration plan to reduce the budgets of several energy-efficiency research programs. Included is a U.S. Energy Department program that in 2004 saved 122 million barrels of oil, worth about $9 billion, The Christian Science Monitor reported Wednesday. Also being subject to spending cuts is the government's Industrial Technologies Program that saves the United States $7 worth of energy for each dollar it spends, ITP proponents told the newspaper. Those projects are among about a dozen Energy Department efforts that will be trimmed or eliminated in a $115 million cost-saving move. The reductions, designed to help the government's budget problems, are being implemented despite the administration's stated eagerness to fund research into alternative energy sources such as wind, solar, nuclear and hydrogen power. This is the worst time to be cutting these programs, William Prindle, deputy director of the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, a Washington think tank, told the Monitor. At this point in time, with high energy prices and pressures, you'd think maybe we'd want to invest in a suite of energy-efficiency programs that make a dent right away. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel to the rescue
A tire on my wife's car has a slow leak. I got the lug nuts off, but the wheel was frozen. No WD40. No penetrating oil. Biodiesel to the rescue. Spray it, wait, a few gentle taps viola ... wheel breaks free. Another happy customer. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Thanks Keith...I agree with youthat energyis"a more threatening issue" regarding any possiblecollapse of the US $.The devaluating US dollar can only exacerbate this issue. Very informative...very helpful...info on Japanese life generally. In everyone's own way, sounds like we're all very much alike. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :)I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc. Or better, don't waste your time. Or better still, stop killing people so casually and go home, like everybody's telling you to. If you really want to go bombing the hell out of Iran just to fiddle with the Federal Reserve or something you might at least ask them first, it's only polite, it's their collateral after all. Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? I don't think it's inevitable. Or at least I don't think an economic collapse is inevitable. Or not because of the dollar anyway. Energy is a more threatening issue, IMHO. I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer. Might not like the answer, but I'd like to hear. Also, Keith, how will Japan be affected? Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt. Mike DuPree Well, you see, there's this economic crisis here that the Japanese have been struggling to survive in recent years. I guess it will grow even more severe. It's a strange kind of economic crisis, at first glance. For one thing it's not characterised by any shortage of money at any level, if you can picture that. Actually it seems to be impossible to picture it, at least in newspaper articles about the severity of the crisis, which usually show photographs of the stock exchange. No images of suffering or blighted inner cities or rust belts of dead factories rotting away. It's not that they hide it, it's just that there aren't any such things here. When interviewed, ordinary people say they're deeply worried that their retirement income might not be as much as they'd thought. It still won't leave them poor though. There is evidence of the crisis at street level, if you know where to look. In the financial district in Tokyo there are coffee shops that are filled each day with displaced sararimen who've been retrenched. They get up in the morning, grab their suit and attache case and rush off to work as usual even though they don't have a job to go to anymore, because if the truth came out in the neighbourhood the sheer loss of social status would destroy the wife. They're not suffering though except existentially, they get really good pay-offs. Another street-level indicator is how empty the shops are. There's an instant cure available for the sheer burden of hopelessness and depression that comes with trying to live through an economic crisis such as this one. You go shopping. It helps take your mind off things. When it's really serious the shops are full. I guess they'll just go shopping Mike. Sorry... I'm not really joking though. Sweden also has this kind of economic crisis sometimes, that's the envy of the world. They just can't see how rich they are. I laugh at Swedes about it, and they say yes they know, but THIS time it's real. Right. Maybe Switzerland has them too. I'm not sure what Japan's economic policy is. Maybe they haven't got one, it's kind of hard to find an actual policy on anything in Japan. It doesn't seem to be how they do things here. Henry Ford invented the "Just In Time" inventory strategy of stock keeping, but it was Toyota who put it on the map. It's very Japanese! Maybe it describes Japanese economics quite well too, JIT economics. It might look like they haven't seen something creeping up on them but I wouldn't bank on it. Japan has the world's fifth largest military budget but the military is just about invisible here, and they pay for it without arms exports. I don't think anyone else can manage that, or not easily. Japan is strangely invisible in many ways, but it's one of the three great economic powers in the world, its technological base is the equal of any, and whatever the economic future holds Japan is sure to play a major role in it. They're capable of things the West wouldn't imagine, they have different depths of experience to draw on, they keep proving it. They have a great deal to contribute. Best Keith - Original Message -From: "Joe Street" mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Thanks Joe...can I move in??? Oh, and can I bring...??? Very helpful. Amazing how complicated simplifying our lives has become. Good to have some guidelines. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Hi Mike; Well there is considerable uncertainty and debate about what form the restructuring will take but little argument that it is going to happen sooner or later. The best strategy is therefore also unknown but I think one can still plan for some general conditions which may be present in any scenario. In times of hyper inflation things are valued more in terms of what they are and the potentialities that they represent in terms of basic needs than they are in our society in present times. Therefore anyone who can provide for themselves in areas of basic needs may be considered rich in some regards. The ability to provide for your own food requirements can be very important. The ability to obtain and render water safe for consumption ranks right up there if you are independant with it. The ability to produce some energy may be an extravagance depending on the severity of the situation or it may mean the difference between living totally hand to mouth and having some extra wealth which can be used for special needs that have to be obtained from some external source. Therefore converting cash to assets that have these intrinsic value now before the hyperinflation hits ( if that is what is going to happen) may be a very wise investment. It may be impossible to obtain these items during hard times due to radical changes in supply and demand. So land, water and energy figure pretty highly in my mind in any doomsday scenario. I remember in 1998 when a massive ice storm left my parents and a huge section of eastern Ontario and Quebec without electricity for 14 days in the cold of January just how things changed in surprising ways. I managed to buy the second last generator that was available to be bought in the eastern half of this country and it had to be shipped to me from Winnipeg Manitoba (probably 2000 km away). There was no electricity anywhere, and neighborhoods were eerily silent. There was no trafic since gas stations were down and gas could only be pumped by hand but cash registers weren't working so many places would not even sell anything. A running generator could be heard for blocks and some were stolen by thieves. In Walkerton Ontario when the municipal water supply became tainted with e. Coli there was a different form of pandemonium. Anyone who had a UV sterilizer and R.O. membrane like me didn't even have to bat an eye but some folks died and many suffer health problems ever since. Depending on how bad things get, having some valuable assets like these may mean a need to defend them as in the example of the generator. I am starting to sound like a whacko survivalist as you sometimes see depicted that way. I don't have a fallout shelter or anything like that but I am definitely working towards ideas that will be of value in situations where I have to be self reliant. I want to get a methane digester going and some passive solar as well as PV on the roof as soon as I can. I plan to do these things modestly just as I have with my BD setup. I don't aspire to be able to get off the grid with my current needs but to be able to have some small amount of power for special needs if the power goes out and for now it can just be a supplement to reduce my environmental footprint. This post is getting long so I am going to cut it off here. Best regards; Joe Cheers Joe MK DuPree wrote: Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc. Or better, don't waste your time. Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how do you believe the average Joe should prepare for the inevitable demise of the US dollar??? I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer. Might not like the answer, but I'd like to hear. Also, Keith, how will Japan be affected? Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :) Joe AltEnergyNetwork wrote: snip But how long can this continue before the world loose faith in the greenback, sending it crashing to unimaginable levels.
Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
Hakan...I've looked on the CNN website, thinking I might find some mention of this story there, but found nothing. What day did you see this? What time (Central Standard Time, USA)??? Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar Keith, After I finished the last email on this issue, I went to take a coffee and turned on CNN. When CNN came on, I learned that Bush had decided to devaluate the dollar by letting it float downwards without any support. I had no idea about that this was happening, but I had not followed the news for a day or so. It confirms however that our discussions on this issue is very actual and now it is only to see at what level the dollar will stabilize. Fortunes will be lost, mostly by foreigners, and Bush managed to hurt his country once more, but it was long overdue anyway. In reality he make the world pay for his war in Iraq. I had no dollar based assets, but I guess that there are many who are very upset. Hakan At 14:10 31/05/2006, you wrote: Hi Robert, Hakan You are correct, but there is a belief over here that engaging in war is GOOD for the economy, and further, that we're strong enough to sustain ongoing warfare. There's the kind of economics that can't distinguish between swords and ploughshares, and the kind that can. The first is a thing of the past with a hangover, the second is of the future, and the present. Eco-economics has been on the table since Maggie Thatcher put it there by mistake in 1988. It's not going to go away, it's been gaining ground steadily. It's not just we Americans who need to do this--though we are certainly among the most gluttonous energy users on the planet--but the entire economic structure upon which society has been built needs reconsideration. It's a casino, and a casino mentality. The only bit of reality in a casino is the fact that the game's loaded in favour of the house, but I don't think the guys who own Las Vegas think you could run the world that way. Or maybe they do, if it's the Mafia that owns Las Vegas, considering the grey areas you always find everywhere between government, big business and organised crime. The other bit of reality is that it's sucking up the whole world like a vacuum cleaner and vanishing it. Time for real economics. The work of the economist Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen is real economics: http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/georgescu.htm Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, 1906-1994 There's some of his work here, in the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30418.html [biofuel] Energy and Economic Myths Selections from Energy and Economic Myths by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen His inheritors are the ecological economists, Herman Daly, Robert Costanza, Michael T. Klare, Joshua Farley and many others. More: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34131.html [biofuel] From Here to Economy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30417.html [biofuel] How Much Is Nature Worth? For You, $33 Trillion http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34130.html [biofuel] At What Cost? - Costanza http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34129.html [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34207.html Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature That's a good read. It has to go that way, and it has been doing so, though it's not centre-screen. It's no more centre-screen that the growth of backyard biodiesel brewing round the world in the last six years, spreading like a weed and suitably out of control for several years now, IMHO. It's a fair comparison because of what you say about energy. If we're going to have an economic collapse I think it might be an energy collapse more than a currency collapse. But I don't think there'll be an economic collapse. If you can't get yourself in shape for localised energy production and supply then you're headed for an economic collapse, but that's your problem, not everyone else's. Not any more, we're leaving that behind. No room for dinosaurs. Even the US army thinks that way these days - they think they'll have to use localised biofuel and bioenergy sources to fight their wars to protect the fossil-fuel supplies. A dinosaur trying on some sheep's clothing. The eco-economic view applies to a lot of areas now. Jules Pretty takes a conservative look at industrialised agriculture in terms of real cost accounting and it turns out to be costing more than it's worth. There's no way of putting it in the black, we'll just have to dump most of it. Pretty also charts a worldwide growth of sustainable farming, small-scale and local. Food miles and fuel miles aren't just talk, the days are numbered for that kind of trade system, with carbon costs hot
Re: [Biofuel] Castorbean supply
hah, let 'em. ;P - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Castorbean supply if you start growing castor beans, look out for the you may be put on a terrorist watch list. Ricin is made from castor beans. As I recall one of the early claims of the discovery of a WMD cache in Iraq was a warehouse full of castor beans. Never mind that the oil has numerous non-lethal commercial uses. Jason Katie wrote: i have here in my grubby little mitt, twenty castor beans, ready to grow. i recieved them from a flower supplier who professes to grow everything organically in compost and topsoil. (www.dianesseeds.com) she deals mostly in flowers, but castor plants are considered decorative so while not exactly cost effective initially, 20 plants can easily offer up scores of seeds. does anyone see a problem with my logic pattern? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 5/31/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar/question??
Marylynn; By way of explanation, one word: control. For clarification, add one more word: corporate control. And to refine that to bring in reality, tweak that: corporatocracy -- the system we live under. The same notion driving NAIS, and NSA databases, and ANWAR drilling, and a massively unpopular war, etc., etc.. Not massive chunks, unless you pursue the implications. Follow the money. Regards, Allen (E. Allen C.) --- Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a post from another list that has me confused. I trust the source so I pay attention but can not understand any possible reasoning here. There are several old/closed gold mines in the U.S. that still have good veins with rich to very rich ore in these veins .. and the veins are substantial and could be easily mined. Apparently they are plentiful enough. These areas with closed mines are not available for purchase and/or lease unless the purchase reason is altered .. which is being done. When a property is obtained and gold has been mined .. and mining activities have become known .. the owners are visited by federals (unidentified) telling them they need to close down because their activity threatens the economy. This plus enough scare tactics seems to have caused this whole thing to become a bit more quietly approached. I have no other information I would be willing to offer other than, because of the source, I believe this is actually happening. .. any other information I have is extremely limited. And, while I believe it's true, I find it beyond my reasoning and/or ability to understand. I know I'm missing massive chunks of information here so I have no information links to connect it. So, pretending that's it's true .. Is there anyone who could possibly shed some light on this. What possible reason could there be? Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Republican / Conservative ??
Marylynn; Hooray! You got it -- and get it! :-)~ Now look up PNAC, see where that takes you. :-(~ Namaste, Allen --- Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure where the link came from but it suggested doing some research into the EXACT meaning of the term Neo-Conservative. The White House does refer to themselves as Neo-Conservative and I .. for one .. never bothered to try to understand exactly what that was. I have been reading everything google has to offer .. plus a few other search engines .. and it's not very pretty. .. in reality .. George W. Bush has never lied to us. He told us up front what he was. The noise you hear is my hand slapping my head!! Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Hey Mike; What Katrina did to New Orleans wasn't an ecological disaster? The Corps. saw that coming 30 years ago, but it suited the suits in Big Oil corp. suites to let it happen, for the good of the dynamic economy -- as we're finally beginning to realise, there's more to dynamism than bottom lines. As for our once-vaunted legal system, who besides hapless grunts has paid the price for Abu Graibe, what about the latest Supreme Court ruling its effect on journalists -- predictable since the addition of Roberts Alito ?? -- the challenge to Roe v. Wade is wending its way their way. Ahhh, but for the spin of it, we can take a Terry Schiavo case all the way (not to mention a national election!) Regards, Allen (E. Allen C.) --- Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on. But it it better than the systems in most of the world, except Western Europe. There is a functioning legal system, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim about China and to some degree India. Our corruption is better managed and on a grander scale - Halliburton. But you don't have to pay a bribe to get driver's license or cross a bridge or open a business. Would you rather own stock in Exxon or Cnooc? Well, figuratively, I wouldn't own oil stocks personally, but one has reasonably open books, and putatively complies with Sarbanes-Oxley, and one can be manipulated at the will of the government. Despite the best efforts of the current administration, our pollution levels are nothing like that of China or India, and the days of major ecological disasters like the Three Gorges Dam are passed. Transparency has suffered mightily under Bush, but Transparency International still rates the US well above China and India. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
I was specifically addressing pollution, not ecological disaster, althoug arguably Katrina is similar to Three Gorges Dam. Both were (largely) avoidable, with Katrina especially. 1. I think there is a good argument to be made that global warming contributed to the severity. And that to FEMA, Army Corps failures and you've got a catastophe. But I think 3 Gorges was completely preventable, and I think Lousiana would have still been hit a major storm. I haven't heard anything that Big Oil somehow planned to let a major storm flatten NO. I think that was incompetence, racism and classism. Well, Kenny Boy and Skilling got sent away, even a presidential nickname couldn't save them. It's flawed, I don't deny that, but it often works. It's legal to start a business in the US. It's not in other countries. Try Guinea - Conakry. Heck try France, if your business fails, and many startups do, then you have an immediate law for fraud. It's assumed you are a crook if your business fails. How many people want to take that on? Not a good way to keep the clever young people at home. They all go to Britain. Sciavo is over. They're trying again with gay marriage. I'm getting bored. I'm going to email my Republican Senators and ask why they are allowing the federal goverment to take away power from our fair and sovereign state - which always regulated marriage. Why is it now a Federal issue? E. C. wrote: Hey Mike; What Katrina did to New Orleans wasn't an ecological disaster? The Corps. saw that coming 30 years ago, but it suited the suits in Big Oil corp. suites to let it happen, for the good of the dynamic economy -- as we're finally beginning to realise, there's more to dynamism than bottom lines. As for our once-vaunted legal system, who besides hapless grunts has paid the price for Abu Graibe, what about the latest Supreme Court ruling its effect on journalists -- predictable since the addition of Roberts Alito ?? -- the challenge to Roe v. Wade is wending its way their way. Ahhh, but for the spin of it, we can take a Terry Schiavo case all the way (not to mention a national election!) Regards, Allen (E. Allen C.) --- Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't say that. Nor would I. I said the US has a dynamic economy. Our infrastructure is beginning to fall apart; the highway system is crumbling; the electrical grid is shaky; we have no energy policy...the list goes on. But it it better than the systems in most of the world, except Western Europe. There is a functioning legal system, something I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim about China and to some degree India. Our corruption is better managed and on a grander scale - Halliburton. But you don't have to pay a bribe to get driver's license or cross a bridge or open a business. Would you rather own stock in Exxon or Cnooc? Well, figuratively, I wouldn't own oil stocks personally, but one has reasonably open books, and putatively complies with Sarbanes-Oxley, and one can be manipulated at the will of the government. Despite the best efforts of the current administration, our pollution levels are nothing like that of China or India, and the days of major ecological disasters like the Three Gorges Dam are passed. Transparency has suffered mightily under Bush, but Transparency International still rates the US well above China and India. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 04:16 31/05/2006, you wrote: snip Also, say what you want about the US but it is still by far the most dynamic economy in the world. China and India still have significant infrastructure, corruption, pollution and transparency issues to overcome. snip And US have none of those problems? LOL Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions
i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the same as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons, and for food preparation(probably a preservative,yeech). is this an acceptible byproduct or should i keep looking? - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions Jason Katie, I'm not sure what you mean when you say clean the glycerine for compost. Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD these days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which 70%, by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like to control how much is added to my garden which has done just fine on pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for the other components of the mix. I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as muriatic acid) before I was able to locate phosphoric. I did a few small test batches and got good separation. The difference will be the type of mineral salt that will precipitate out. Ex: Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water HCl + NaOH NaCL (table salt) + H2O The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top and the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom layer. The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of soil nutrients, but I have found that they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ... not only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate . valuable as fertilizer. The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt produced would have more value. ***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water and add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good use. Sorry to get so wordy, but your goofy question is part of a subject that is of great interest to me. The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have called waste products is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. Best of luck to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to clean glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant find any experiments or documentation. am i not looking in the right places? has anyone tried using vinegar? this is really bothering me. any ideas? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 5/31/2006
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Keith,You wrote: "He means the other superpower, the Social Forum in Porto Alegre for example, and I'm sure the "policy changes" have more to do with the World Bank/IMF/WTO than with the US government or other governments."It's hard to misunderstand his meaning - especially since he actually uses the term "second superpower".I wrote: "...and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of 'Hegemony or Survival'."What I'm saying is that events like the Social Forum mightactuallyeffectpublic policy outside (and perhaps inside) the U.S.. I wasn't trying to interpret his quote but rather, speculate and widen the scope where Chomsky'sobservation might also be true.They may "have more to do with the World Bank/IMF/WTO than with the US government or other governments." as you say. However, to what extent is that true? Does that mean that it doesn't effectgovernments to any meaningful degree? If so, I think I would disagree with your assessment. In fact, there are times when I cannot distinguish between the motives of the World Bank/IMF/WTO and the US government or other governments. More importantly, a successful campaign against one would certainly effect the other.Although quantifying that effect is debatable, I feel it is worth mentioning.Finally, I offer this as a contribution to thediscussion. I'm not an expert and if I were asked for an expert opinion, I would defer most economic and foreign policy matters to you. If (as you say) it's been mentioned in your previous contributions, I apologize for being redundant.Mike R.Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mike R.I think the 5/30/06 post and attached article from AltEnergyNetwork dida excellent job explaining the administration's decision making process,the U.S. economy and how it compares to similar situations in othercountries.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63309.htmlYes it does, but there's been a lot more about it previously, especially in comments on the implications of Iran's new oil bourse, there are other points of view, and I think they all have to be assessed.I also think it's possible that the weakening of the U.S. Dollar is theresult of a concerted effort by foreign entities (governments and NGO's)and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of"Hegemony or Survival"."For the first time, concrete alliances have been taking shape at thegrassroots level . These are impressive developments, rich inopportunity. And they have had effects, in rhetorical and sometimespolicy changes."When he says "policy changes", I read it to mean within the UnitedStates. However, I think that a popular movement to identify the U.S.government as the single biggest threat to our survival as a species, iscoalescing in foreign policy decisions around the world. The result isan indication of US economic isolation with hopes of slowing militarybuildup and globalization.I think you credit them with more strategy than they deserve. I don't think Chomsky is talking about the same thing. He also said this, with the same sentence in it:"The harmful effects of the corporate globalisation project have led to mass popular protest and activism in the South, later joined by major sectors of the rich industrial societies, hence becoming harder to ignore. For the first time concrete alliances have been taking shape at a grassroots level. It is fair to say, I think, that the future of our endangered species may be determined in no small measure by how these popular forces evolve."He means the other superpower, the Social Forum in Porto Alegre for example, and I'm sure the "policy changes" have more to do with the World Bank/IMF/WTO than with the US government or other governments.(IMO) this adds to Mike Weaver's position:http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63345.html"Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economicsystem perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have aneffect."I think it adds to Gabriel Kolko's position and mine 18 months ago, and since - Vote Bush! LOL!... But a Kerry win would still have left you with the "duopoly" party,followed by business-as-usual, especially on the foreign policyfront. There's not much essential difference between the two parties'foreign policy, eg between Clinton's and Bush's, it's mostly just theBushies' outrageous in-your-face style of it that's different.I agreed with Gabriel Kolko at the time, that Bush might be thelesser of two evils, but while Kolko was thinking of other nationsand international alliances I was thinking of the Other Superpower.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg38234.html[Biofuel] The Coming Elections and the Future of American Global Power16 Sep 2004Also this:"Gabriel Kolko -- in this writer's estimation, our most indispensablehistorian -- argues in a recent piece on the Counterpunch websitethat because a second Bush term would possibly intensify
Re: [Biofuel] U.S. dollar
Hakan,You wrote: "...it is a concerted effort to try to hold the value of the dollar high, when it according to all financial rules and fundamentals should be much lower."So, there are no organizations or governments attempting to defend themselves from U.S. Hegemony by trying to increase the value of currenciesother thanthe Dollar? Who's the child Hakan?You said: "I find it a little bit amazing that in the text below is an attempt toblame other countries for allowing US to break all the rules."I find it amazing too - since I didn't "blame" other countries for anything.I find itamazing that (according to you) I can "blame" someone without using the word blame, or:culpabilityfaultguiltrapresponsibility for wrongdoing or failure I didn't say any related words like:regretremorseself-reproachshameaccountabilityliabilitycomplicityblameworthinessreprehensiblenesssinfulnesscensurecondemnationdenunciation(courtesy: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/blame)I didn't try toexcuse the U.S. frombreaking "all the rules". However, I did say "White House policy is both self destructive and antagonistic, attracting the attention of others to attack."You also said: "I do not see that US is under any attack"That one stands on it's own merit (or lack thereof). The U.S. has so broadly alienated countries on every continent, what strategy of attack do you think is being spared - irrespective of whether or not you can "see" it?My observation/speculation was related toa growing and justifiable popular dissent against the U.S. government, occurring both inside and outside the U.S. and how it may be effecting policy decisions in countries around the world.It would be a ray of sunshine if you could save the small-minded personal attacks, address a specific observation (accurately) and express dissent with at least a thimble full of objectivity. I'm not even asking for respect (although it would be nice).Othersmight find ituseful to the conversation and you might find it helpful to your own credibility.Mike Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike,The weakening of the dollar is not a result of any concerted foreigneffort. The dollar is amazingly strong, considering that US breaksall fundamentals. It is probably the opposite, it is a concertedeffort to try to hold the value of the dollar high, when it accordingto all financial rules and fundamentals should be much lower.I find it a little bit amazing that in the text below is an attempt toblame other countries for allowing US to break all the rules. I wouldnot surprised to hear such things from children "mom/dad said wecould do it" and maybe I am not that surprised to hear it from US.It is however wrong to try to find any to blame other then US itself.I do not see that US is under any attack, it is only taking theconsequences of its own doing. I see no reason to develop anymental feelings like "being pursued" over it. It is not any backgroundfor "see what they are doing to us" when it should be "see what weare doing to ourselves". On the other hand, conspiration theoriesare favorite themes for Americans and they will soon find someonewho is "making it to the Americans, so the Americans will makeit to themselves".Do not misunderstand me, I like Americans very much and I alsolike children very much. I wonder if there are any connections inthis. How they could elect Bush is beyond me, but he is there.HakanAt 17:05 31/05/2006, you wrote:I think the 5/30/06 post and attached article from AltEnergyNetwork dida excellent job explaining the administration's decision making process,the U.S. economy and how it compares to similar situations in othercountries.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63309.htmlI also think it's possible that the weakening of the U.S. Dollar is theresult of a concerted effort by foreign entities (governments and NGO's)and might be related to what Noam Chomsky describes on the last page of"Hegemony or Survival"."For the first time, concrete alliances have been taking shape at thegrassroots level . These are impressive developments, rich inopportunity. And they have had effects, in rhetorical and sometimespolicy changes."When he says "policy changes", I read it to mean within the UnitedStates. However, I think that a popular movement to identify the U.S.government as the single biggest threat to our survival as a species, iscoalescing in foreign policy decisions around the world. The result isan indication of US economic isolation with hopes of slowing militarybuildup and globalization.(IMO) this adds to Mike Weaver's position:http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63345.html"Don't get me wrong - the concerted effort to destroy our economicsystem perpetuated by the Bush Administration will (and has) have aneffect."White House policy is both self destructive and antagonistic, attractingthe attention of others to attack.Military spending/use, energy, the environment, you name it, the U.S.government is
Re: [Biofuel] HHO for welding running your car
Indeed, that would be truly interesting. Keep us posted.Bill Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's all true, it's going to be interesting to see how fast this guy disappears from the face of the planet!"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another water powered car, this oneby Denny Klein in Florida. 100 miles on 4 oz of water, he says. He is developing a Hummer for the Pentagon that'll run on either water or gasoline, according to the newscast on Faux 26 TV.http://youtube.com/watch?v=HF__Qlhtnwssearch=water%20power___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Wildbill Sutton.VT Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Acutus ad Serviendum Sharpened to Serve __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions
Hi Jason, Tom KCl is muriate of potash, it's used as a fertiliser but it kills the soil life, very harsh form of potassium. Potassium phosphate is milder and has the double benefit of adding phosphorus. Quite what happens when you put that in the soil isn't quite so simple either. Fertilisers don't fertilise the soil, they're not really fertilisers, they're just nutrients. It's an attempt to feed the plant direct instead of via the soil life, a bit like being on a drip-feed rather than eating food and letting your intestines do the job (the soil has often been described as an inside-out intestine). Fertilisers aren't worth buying. But a by-product of a separate process that contains soil and plant nutrients can be a beneficial addition to a compost pile, to make real fertiliser. As Tom is showing. You can use HCl to separate the by-product and add the salts to a compost pile with benefit, though not as much benefit as if you used phosphoric acid for separation. i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the same as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons, and for food preparation(probably a preservative,yeech). is this an acceptible byproduct or should i keep looking? - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions Jason Katie, I'm not sure what you mean when you say clean the glycerine for compost. Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD these days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which 70%, by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like to control how much is added to my garden Too much potassium is a no-no. More about that here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg47892.html [biofuels-biz] KOH vs NaOH But compost buffers everything, the margins for error are much wider when you use compost. Best Keith which has done just fine on pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for the other components of the mix. I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as muriatic acid) before I was able to locate phosphoric. I did a few small test batches and got good separation. The difference will be the type of mineral salt that will precipitate out. Ex: Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water HCl + NaOH NaCL (table salt) + H2O The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top and the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom layer. The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of soil nutrients, but I have found that they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ... not only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate . valuable as fertilizer. The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt produced would have more value. ***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water and add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good use. Sorry to get so wordy, but your goofy question is part of a subject that is of great interest to me. The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have called waste products is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. Best of luck to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel]
