[biofuel] Re: Circulation with pump washing.
Kevin; Thanks for that input. Now I will have to study that carefully to see how I can incorporate it in my system. I have very limited head room over the wash tank, although I can get in there with a drill and paint stirrer and have done so several times. It works but is very difficult to hold manually over the edge. I have my reactor/wash tank combo set up in a cabinet that sits only 6ft high incluidng storage for pails,casters ect... It was originally built to go inside a heated garage and that is the head room that was available and so now it is located elsewhere but the cabinet was already built and easy to transport without dissembly, so it stayed that way. I also use a natural colour poly drum (200 liter)as a wash tank but I have it set up with the standpipe design. Anyway, I am off for the next ten days and will have time to ponder these things. Thanks again for your input. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi bioveging, Todd spoke words of wisdom to me and helped me save about four days, so I went back and found the post. I had spent time and $$$ on the bubble wash method, but thought it to take too long for my liking. Since then, I drain my separation (after reaction ) to a secondary 55 gal white poly drum and where it settles for 18-24hrs. My secondary drum has two side bulkhead valves installed about 6-10 apart from another , with 1/2 ballvalves. I'll simply drain the Glycerin-level just below the top ballvalve, using the lower valve. Then drain the BD the top layer into another secondary wash drum that has the same bulkhead setup. Yeah, I could have used the standpipe design, but decided on see-through poly. After following Todd's rules, I'll add 5-10 gal of water gently (I put the garden hose just below the BD, so not to create emulsion) and mix with the same mixer I used in my reactor tank for 3-5 min., wait 30min - 1 hour for settling and repeat twice, before draining the murky water and starting the process over until satisfied. So my original post had to do with saving time! However, I was introduced to a better way to wash BD without any pumps or bubble stones etc. Hope it helps..No emulsion! * *** *** Kevin, Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: . 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1-2 of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process time down to 24 hours. Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash fuel from incomplete reactions. That's the primary reason why they were invented and have achieved such wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that their reactions are complete. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel Hello, Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a- week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to shake past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While
[biofuel] Re: Use for wash water
My thinks the lye in the water as well as the methanol would not fair well on the paint :) Although if you have any defoliating of such things as Poison Ivy it works greeat for that. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I live in a large building with a car park, the cars there are washed almost every day, and the person washing then usually has a bucket full of water detergent. Could I use the wash water for washing cars? Or would there be any nasty residue or other chemical that could stein or harm the car? I'd first have to let it sit for a week or two to make sure that the methanol evaporates from it. Teoman -Original Message- From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 September 2004 04:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Circulation with pump washing. Hi bioveging, Todd spoke words of wisdom to me and helped me save about four days, so I went back and found the post. I had spent time and $$$ on the bubble wash method, but thought it to take too long for my liking. Since then, I drain my separation (after reaction ) to a secondary 55 gal white poly drum and where it settles for 18-24hrs. My secondary drum has two side bulkhead valves installed about 6-10 apart from another , with 1/2 ballvalves. I'll simply drain the Glycerin-level just below the top ballvalve, using the lower valve. Then drain the BD the top layer into another secondary wash drum that has the same bulkhead setup. Yeah, I could have used the standpipe design, but decided on see-through poly. After following Todd's rules, I'll add 5-10 gal of water gently (I put the garden hose just below the BD, so not to create emulsion) and mix with the same mixer I used in my reactor tank for 3-5 min., wait 30min - 1 hour for settling and repeat twice, before draining the murky water and starting the process over until satisfied. So my original post had to do with saving time! However, I was introduced to a better way to wash BD without any pumps or bubble stones etc. Hope it helps..No emulsion! * *** *** Kevin, Yes. You can speed up the process considerably. It involves the following: . 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1-2 of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Depending upon the volume of oil in your batch, the hp/size of your reactor tank and wash tank motors/impellers, you could get your entire batch process time down to 24 hours. Most people avoid mechanical mixing of the fuel at the wash stages, thinking that it will create emulsion problems. And they're right if they try to wash fuel from incomplete reactions. That's the primary reason why they were invented and have achieved such wide acceptance - too many people aren't meticulous about making sure that their reactions are complete. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Questions Speed-up washing biodiesel Hello, Is there a way to speed-up the water-biodiesel wash during the settling of washing the fuel? I've read the bubble washing techniques understand it, but for the best quality of biodiesel, it can take up-to-a- week, with several washes. One person mentioned a centrifuge, which I never used know nothing about that equipment. I imagine it to be a very expensive machine, takes up a large amount of space, and may not be available to the average homebrewer. Could vibration assist in aiding water to help filter water to shake past the biodiesel to the bottom water level in a shorter amount of time? Has anyone tried to experiment using vibration? Also, -In order to understand the process better, does anyone have a mpeg simulation illustrating the (Molecular model) cleansing of biodiesel in the wash stage process or something similar? I am curious to see the what exactly is happening in the batch? While I'm at it, how about a simulation of the transesterification process in a mpeg
[biofuel] Re: a connection to society
As in Iraq, where women under Saddam made up over 50% of the daily work force in all walks of the social structure; teachers, doctors, architechs ect... but as soon as they got liberated these same women under the US occupation now cannot leave home without an escort and NEVER go out at night, and needless to say cannot hold any form of gainful employment. What a difference democracy makes huh? L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, John Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a shame it is you are so narrow minded. You try to connect several unrelated circumstances under the umbrella of placing blame on our society for the ills of the world. What a crock... Up until World War II, women were some what second class citizens in western society, not quite to the degree they were at the turn of the last century and before. They were paraded around as chattel, a piece of property. Then came suffrage and women slowly gained equality. They were needed to work because the men were away. From your description, women in the third world are living in the dark ages children aren't any better off. These so called Black Widows are a product of the society they live under controlled by people exercising unrighteous dominion. Here in the states widows are taken care of. You are wrong to place their type of society problems on us. Women in that part of the world have been under an iron fist for centuries. It is NOT a result of western aggression. As for the low life and predators in the states, it is a product of the choices they made in their life. The government has poured tax dollars into programs trying to lift those who lacked opportunity. Everybody has the choice to accept or reject the schooling and training available. But in today's world, those who have not think they have to have everything those who have. And they want it instantly, without working for it. They want and expect a hand out. They want something for nothing! They are the parasites in our society. This is a country where you have to be accountable for yourself. If you choose not to support yourself and family, then you are going to live in the lowest of habitations, all because you chose to do so. I agree, there are times when a helping hand is needed, and there isn't anything degrading about it. But when you choose to make it a life style, then the hand out ends and you are going to starve. I have no sympathy for the leaches and low life in this world. It isn't society's responsibility As for this war we are engaged in, hopefully it will liberate the oppressed that live under less than ideal circumstances. You need to get your facts straight before you try to miss lead others. Otherwise it appears you are being deceitful and have an agenda you are trying to push on me. jcg -Original Message- From: Ross Cannon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 9:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [biofuel] a connection to society What happened in the Russian schoolhouse was terrible. this morning i was speaking to a young, local kid about that mess in Chechnia. i mentioned that just last week two passenger planes in Russia were blown out of the sky by two Chechian women. These women were a part of a group called the black widows because their husbands and many times children have been killed in the war with the Russians and in many Muslim cultures when your husband dies...the wife's life also grinds to a halt. i tried to point out that when any part of a society has no stake in that society then they have no reason to promote the general well being of the society. i mentioned that i thought that we were so lucky that Martin Luther King and Lyndon Johnson and the Kennedys and so many others had moved the civil rights movement forward in the 50's and 60's because if they had not we would have people of dark skin color here today with no stake in this society...their children would not have the opportunity to succeed and many would be working actively to bring our society to a halt. as we were driving we passed several of those gas trucks that i never used to notice until they began being blown up all over Iraq by the people who have no stake in what we are doing in their country. In some upscale communities in Chicago there have been a rash of attacks by groups of young people on single, vulnerable men apparently just for the fun of beating the hell out of them. i believe that lack of hope and belief that they have no stake in the future of their society is the cause of all of these desperate acts. until we have leadership and a large number of citizens that understand and accept that we are all the same and work for the good of everyone then we will have the desperate,
[biofuel] Re: Fuel Taxes
Rand McNally is a good source,and if you subscribe to the Flying J free Newsletter they do occasionally put out a comparative chart that has all States listed individually. Of course their goal is to show how they are better than anyone else, but they do list the costs ect... on an easy to read chart. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Rand McNally motor carriers edition of the USA Atlas 2004 has all states / federal fuel taxes listed. This map costs $9.99 at Flying J truck stops. --- Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember see the Fed tax posted on the pumps a while ago, but not lately. Colorado, USA Greg H. - Original Message - From: dickboyd To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 23:10 Subject: [biofuel] Fuel Taxes Have you ever seen fuel taxes posted at the pump? Which state or County? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --- --- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = Patrick Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home: 201.345.4133 Mobile: 201.693.5950 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: ready to go rquipment in the uk
As has been stated many times here on the list, those ready-made processors are not recommended for various safety and quality reasons. Better yet, build your own set up. 5,000lt/mth??? Running a fleet of landscapers are we, or pehpas a full sized lorry ? That's a lot of fuel for one person to use personally. You might to look at one of those stainless steel dairy tanks they use for holding the milk in as a processor for those kind of volumes. They already have a stirring mechanism installed and drains ect in the right places.Being stainless is s plus. You may have to put on extra sealant so fumes do not escape during processing and the tank could be used as a wash tank once the glycerine has been removed as the same stirring mechanism would work for wash also. They drain cleanly at the bottom so make a good processor for large volumes like what you are looking at. Of course you will need lots of room for it, but then that you already know. How are you planning on doing the pick up of 5,000 liters of WVO ? Here's a idea, if you have a truck with a flatbed or dump box or even a dual rear wheel pick up that has a compressor set up on it. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html Just a thought, or two :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, shaun horwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you Know of any Individuals or companies who sells the equipment ready to make bio diesel in the Uk, I am in the South (Swindon) .I can get plenty of used cooking oil and wish to manufacture approx 5000lts per month for personal use. regards Shaun [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Circulation with pump washing.
OK, I tried the drill pump via the standpipe and returned it via the water drain and that didn't give satisfactory results. I then tried to hook up a Pony Pump and do the same thing with essentially the same unresults, so I then had the brilliant idea of hooking up the Pony Pump to the water drain and have it splash into the BD from the top and that gave about the same results as the former two methods, unsatisfactory. Now, before I waste more of my time there has to be someone that does this successfully and that has been having quite a yarn at my trial and error stuff, so how's about sharing how you do it My next attempt will be to draw from the water drain and have it return via a tube to a T section in the center top of the tank and the cross members will have holes drilled into them so that it will esentially give me a hard rain, which I am pretty sure will work. Like mist washing, but on steroids, HA! Of course another way would be to load a bunch of water into the reactor after draining the glycerine and having a go at it that way, but I do not want to have water residue in the works when I get ready to do another batch, so same tank for all uses doesn't work for me. Any comments? L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fuel Taxes
In Canada, the percentage of taxes allotted to the fuel you are buying is posted at the bottom of the pump's window. Not that it helps aleviate the fact that they are ripping us off, they just let you know by how much. I once saw a site where they had all States posted with the tax percenatges, or actual per-gallon amount and NY and Hawaii were amongst the highest, but that was some time ago. I am sure that if you were to do a search on the net something could be found. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dickboyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you ever seen fuel taxes posted at the pump? Which state or County? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: pump size
The one many people here use, and is also the one I use, is found at Northern Tools: www.northerntool.com Item# 109955 It is 110V and 1/2HP. This is my primary reactor pump. I am going to try out a Pony Pump from the same place, Item# 109730, that I just got tonight as a wash pump and filter pump (the one I use to get the BD from the wash tank through the filters after it's final wash) 1/3HP should work fine, IMHO, and the 1 inch connections are the same as the Clear Water Pump mentioned above.Just do the necessary plumbing and have at it. The only problem you will have to be aware of is if you use NaOH as a catalyst as it may want to harden as it cools and this can be a problem in pumps and the lines. I have done away with the potential of this happening, after reading comments from Todd and G-Mark about isolating the pump and draining the lines once processing is complete. I have successfully done this with my unit and as an unexpected bonus it also provided me with a sample for quality testing while the main mix settles. There should be pics and explanations available as soon as the schedule permits. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Between all the exchange between some of our members, I lost sight of the ideal pump size strength for mixing a 45 gallon drum of home brew (filled to 30 gal) Right now I have a 1/3 horse 1 pump. I am about to connect to my reactor. Is this in-/overly/perfectly adequate? Pierre Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Diesel and biodeisel
I believe you will find even though diesel may smoke somewhat more than petrol that the actual emmissions are less toxic with standard diesel than there are with petrol. That said, yes there is a source near you where biodiesel can easily be found, it is in your garage :) Learn to make your own, it is not that difficult, although it requires some dedication to the task and determination to do it right. All the information you need can be had via http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html and the members of this list are always happy to offer any technical help when you run into snags (and there will be some), so check out the procedure, have at a test batch to get a feel for it and select the type of reactor you want to make and go to it. Don't try to cut corners but rather keep at it methodiccally and you will be able to do it. I did, and am VERY happy that I did at that. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, J Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future. I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of the Liberty. My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true? Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
Good catch Andrew. If memory serves me properly that is exactly the way it is done with the 90 liter at JtF. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html I have mine set up to be gradually introduced with air assist should the check valve get finicky about opening. I have incorporated the 20 liter carboy gravity feed system with the 90 liter air to the vent hole method. This way I don't get any reluctance in the check valve and I can still do it all in one shot. I do 80 liter batches and 16 liters with catalyst fits nicely in one carboy and does not leak out when it is tipped onto it's side for delivery. I believe the important factor, other than getting all measurements acurate, is to process at the right temp (55C/130F) and long enough so that there will be a complete reaction (1-2 hours depending on the volume) and then settling should not see the temps drop below 120F (49C)so that when you show up to drain the glycerine the job will have been completed. I am using NaOH still at the moment and it is still warm coming out after settling for two days and still quite liquid, but then my reactor is pretty well insulated also.(Two days is overkill, it just seems to be way my schedule works) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg Harbican wrote: What I was thinking, is instead of stirring the mix, using a pump to pump from the bottom of the tank into the top of the tank.If oil / methoxide mix is coming in at a slight angle so that it gets the entire tank of oil to moving around the tank, that would be just like stirring it. In a way, you would be moving more mix faster that by stirring alone. So after a few hours it should truly be well mixed. Granted at first all the methoxide would be at the top, but, as the oil circulates ( from bottom to top ), the methoxide should blend in. Why not take things a step further by switching on the pump before the methoxide is added and then you have a slow gravity feed of the methoxide, so that it drips in as the oil is circulated? Is that not the basis for mixing for some of the reactors at the JtF web site? Greg H. Andrew Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
I have done this very thing with a 40 liter batch and washed it in a poly drum (200liter) using a standard paint stirrer on the end of a standard drill and got excellent fuel from it (it's all gone now thanks to the Benz) :) Tonight I am going to acquire a Pony Pump and once that gets set up I will let you know how it worked (or didn't). The drill-pumps are not doing very well, they keep burning out. I have one that draws water and is still operational but the two I was using, one for wash and the other for transfer of BD through filters crapped on me, so it's $ and Pony Pump time. Stir mixing works well, but be very cautious of the methanol fumes. Make it fumeless (closed) if possible. If not do it outside in a cross wind. Washing with a paint mixer works very well and allows for longer settling after washing than bubble or mist washing does as well as it's other advantages. L. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everybody for the replies. I mixed the methoxide with the wvo by gradually letting the pump suck it from a carboy as the wvo was being pumped through the processor. I'm fairly happy that there was good mixing because of the tests I did after I made the biodiesel. Remember that I reprocessed the biodiesel a second time and got no glycerine fall out indicating that all the product had reacted. I also did the share test and got a clear separation. I'm fairly sure at this stage that my problem is that too vigorous pumping produces mayonnaise even if the biodiesel has reacted fully. I am going to try another 50 litre batch and I will use a motorised stirrer this time. Has anybody got any idea about the diameter of impellor I should use and what rpm to use? I'm going to use a 200 litre plastic barrel to do the washing. Thanks everybody again for the help/suggestions. Dermot -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 September 2004 10:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel But isnt the mixing period long enough? Say you mix for a whole day would it still be uneven? What im really asking is this caused because of mechanical factors or because a chemical reaction takes place, too much methroxide exposed to too little oil... Just trying to get a better understanding of things. Thanks for your time -- original message -- Subject:[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 01st September 2004 7:9:3 The idea of methoxide mixing is to introduce it at a rythm that will ensure even distribution throughout, so if you jet it all in at once it might not get evenly distributed and that might leave some oil unreacted, IMO. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about when you first mix the methoxide with the veggie oil, is there such a thing as mixing them to violently because of having to powerful a pump? Greg H. - Original Message - From: dermot To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 07:03 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel I think, as you rightly suggest, that my pump is too powerful and that the mixing is too violent. Thanks for you input. Regards Dermot -Original Message- From: bioveging [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 September 2004 02:46 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. Why bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp would have confirmed it one way or the other. I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred out OK. The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off the methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp should not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor end product.( I know, I've done it) 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too much for such a small amount though, although someone else will have to comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been talk of a 1/2 HP pump for 200gal (757liter) going for half an hour and oing the job. Are you using a good scale? How about PH measuring method? All potential variables that can cause trouble. I am thinking though that your biggest problem had to do with the processing temperature being too high causing a loss of methanol. Anyway, that is only mytake on it, maybe someone with more experience can be more helpful L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL
[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. Why bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp would have confirmed it one way or the other. I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred out OK. The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off the methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp should not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor end product.( I know, I've done it) 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too much for such a small amount though, although someone else will have to comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been talk of a 1/2 HP pump for 200gal (757liter) going for half an hour and oing the job. Are you using a good scale? How about PH measuring method? All potential variables that can cause trouble. I am thinking though that your biggest problem had to do with the processing temperature being too high causing a loss of methanol. Anyway, that is only mytake on it, maybe someone with more experience can be more helpful L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would appreciate any suggestions or help from people who have experience with washing biodiesel by using a pump. I have tried unsuccessfully to do it and have ended up with about 50% mayonnaise. Here's what I did: I heated the used oil, which was over a year old, to 130 degrees centigrade for over an hour to make sure there was no water present. I then took a sample and allowed it to cool before titrating it. I got a titration reading of around 2.7. I did the titration three times and it was always around this figure. I added 4 grams to this figure and made a few one litre test batches mixing 6.7 grams of lye to the methanol. I used 22% methanol (220 ml) in order to ensure a complete reaction. I made sure that the lye mixed completely with the methanol. When I mixed the methoxide with the wvo I got a very good separation and everything seemed fine. I then siphoned off the top layer of biodiesel and added an equal amount of water to it. I shook it about 15 times and I got a good separation within seconds and after maybe an hour I had almost completely clean biodiesel on top and white coloured water underneath. There was no middle layer. After a few days I siphoned off the washed biodiesel and washed it a few more times. Same result, perfect separation after a few hours and it separated quite quickly initially. I will call this sample A. I then took another litre sample of the unwashed biodiesel and ran it through the whole process again to see if I had a complete reaction. I titrated it but it immediately turned purple so I used the figure of 4 grams of lye to mix with the 220 ml of methanol. I mixed the methoxide and biodiesel thoroughly and was pleased to see that I got no separation, indicating that there had been a complete reaction the first time. I washed it again and got good separation very quickly. So far so good. I felt confident enough now to do my first large batch in my processor. By large I mean 50 litres. My processor is an old discarded plastic tractor mounted spray tank. It is rectangular in shape but has a slight cone shaped bottom. I use a pump mixer to pump the contents from the bottom of the tank to the top where I have a three quarter inch pipe connected to a wand which has about 40 small holes drilled to enable good mixing. This wand is submerged near he bottom of the tank. The pump is a sliding vane type and is powered by a 2 horsepower motor running at 1750 rpm. I heated the wvo in a separate heater tank using a butane burner and brought it up to 65 degrees centigrade. I then transferred it by pump to the reaction vessel and turned on my pump. I then gradually added the methoxide mixture (at room temp) to the pump inlet and mixed away for about an hour to ensure good mixing. I have the reactor tank well insulated so the temperature didn't drop below 55 degrees centigrade during the reaction time of one hour. Next morning I saw that everything went very well. I had good separation and the glycerine had fallen to the bottom and was liquid, just as the trial batches had been, so it was easy to draw off the glycerine. I drew off a pint of biodiesel and did the wash test by shaking it vigorously for about ten shakes. I got good separation almost immediately and it cleared to lovely biodiesel and milky water in a few minutes. I drained off the water and let the biodiesel air dry for a few days when it turned the nice clear straw yellow. Call this sample B. I was happy that I had made good biodiesel so I decided to pump wash the biodiesel in the reaction vessel. I added to the approximately 50 litres
[biofuel] Re: NEED INFO ON BIODIESEL
OK, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html information, tutorials, processor examples ect... Knock yourself out, there's plenty to go through. Helps people with zero knowledge learn to make top rate fuel in a matter of days. Have fun. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, memimurillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello every body! I'm new in this group. I'm finishing my Master's Degree right now and I'm requiered to make a proyect of a Biodiesel Plant. Maybe somebody can give me some info on contract manufacturing services and biodiesel production technology. Thanks for your help!! Marcela Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Old propane tanks
Now I have to find out just what it is going to take to get the valve cover off the non-empty tank, with out turning my self into a fireball. In my case it would be a plumber with professinal knowledge of gas :) This stuff scares me; it's great for the BBQ but can go boom way too easily. Let a pro do it. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/30/2004 10:52:34 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, The 100 lb tank is 100 lb of LPG with no consideration for the 70 lb tare weight of the container . I believe the true weight of contents is closer to 30 lb or 7 gallons of LPG Paul Ok, $38 later, I have 3 100 lb tanks, 1 30 lb tank, and 1 20 lb tank. The kicker is that one of the 100 lb tanks, weighs in at 92 lbs., which tells me it's almost full - I think that the reason that it was sold to me, is that the valve cover is rusted into place, and I half to remove it.Can we say TRICKY? The other 2 100 lb tanks, also have the valve covers rusted on them, but, they are empty. The 20 lb tank is standard BBQ grill tank, and the 30 lb tank has 2 threaded holes at the top. For the most part, they have just a light surface rusting, so they are steel, and not aluminum. Even saw some 250 gal tanks, but, I just would not be able fit them, into the back of my Land Cruiser Now I have to find out just what it is going to take to get the valve cover off the non-empty tank, with out turning my self into a fireball.Does anyone have any ideas? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 08:21 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Old propane tanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
The idea of methoxide mixing is to introduce it at a rythm that will ensure even distribution throughout, so if you jet it all in at once it might not get evenly distributed and that might leave some oil unreacted, IMO. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about when you first mix the methoxide with the veggie oil, is there such a thing as mixing them to violently because of having to powerful a pump? Greg H. - Original Message - From: dermot To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 07:03 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel I think, as you rightly suggest, that my pump is too powerful and that the mixing is too violent. Thanks for you input. Regards Dermot -Original Message- From: bioveging [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 September 2004 02:46 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. Why bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp would have confirmed it one way or the other. I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred out OK. The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off the methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp should not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor end product.( I know, I've done it) 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too much for such a small amount though, although someone else will have to comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been talk of a 1/2 HP pump for 200gal (757liter) going for half an hour and oing the job. Are you using a good scale? How about PH measuring method? All potential variables that can cause trouble. I am thinking though that your biggest problem had to do with the processing temperature being too high causing a loss of methanol. Anyway, that is only mytake on it, maybe someone with more experience can be more helpful L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would appreciate any suggestions or help from people who have experience with washing biodiesel by using a pump. I have tried unsuccessfully to do it and have ended up with about 50% mayonnaise. Here's what I did: I heated the used oil, which was over a year old, to 130 degrees centigrade for over an hour to make sure there was no water present. I then took a sample and allowed it to cool before titrating it. I got a titration reading of around 2.7. I did the titration three times and it was always around this figure. I added 4 grams to this figure and made a few one litre test batches mixing 6.7 grams of lye to the methanol. I used 22% methanol (220 ml) in order to ensure a complete reaction. I made sure that the lye mixed completely with the methanol. When I mixed the methoxide with the wvo I got a very good separation and everything seemed fine. I then siphoned off the top layer of biodiesel and added an equal amount of water to it. I shook it about 15 times and I got a good separation within seconds and after maybe an hour I had almost completely clean biodiesel on top and white coloured water underneath. There was no middle layer. After a few days I siphoned off the washed biodiesel and washed it a few more times. Same result, perfect separation after a few hours and it separated quite quickly initially. I will call this sample A. I then took another litre sample of the unwashed biodiesel and ran it through the whole process again to see if I had a complete reaction. I titrated it but it immediately turned purple so I used the figure of 4 grams of lye to mix with the 220 ml of methanol. I mixed the methoxide and biodiesel thoroughly and was pleased to see that I got no separation, indicating that there had been a complete reaction the first time. I washed it again and got good separation very quickly. So far so good. I felt confident enough now to do my first large batch in my processor. By large I mean 50 litres. My processor is an old discarded plastic tractor mounted spray tank. It is rectangular in shape but has a slight cone shaped bottom. I use a pump mixer to pump the contents from the bottom of the tank to the top where I have a three quarter inch pipe connected to a wand which has about 40 small holes drilled to enable good mixing. This wand is submerged near he bottom of the tank. The pump is a sliding
[biofuel] Ohhh, what a feeling !
That used to be for a Toyota ad, but it is now for how it feels when you first tank up your vehicle with B100 and run it down the road with that special knowledge that not only are you not poluting the air and peoples' lungs but you are actually contributing to the disposal of a nasty product(WVO)all the while doing your vehicle's engine nothing but good. An all around win/win situation. The Benz is now running B100 and has been so the last few days, before which it was B85 and next week it will be B100 and so on and so forth until the cold weather forces me to blend again ;(. The new processor works well as does the standpipe wash tank http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333), however the drill-pump should be replaced with a Pony Pump as it does not quite have enough juice to get it circulating properly without a little assistance. That is the next upgrade, a Pony Pump www.northerntool.com - productId=16818. Once that is done I'll post my comments about performance. I had one before for water drawing from a well but it overheated easily, however it was another maker and I now have a better one scoped out for trial as soon as the $ permits. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pre-heat tank up date
Ok, girls and guys here it is. When I first set up a pre-heat tank I did something stupid, I made the drain 1/2inch to accomodate the already aquired garden hose tap. That was really dumb. The inside of those taps are about 1/4inch and a 90* elbow at that, so if you have even the slightest viscosity it wil plug up tight (as happened on my second go around), so, I now have changed that to a straight in-line 1/2 (if you do it make it 3/4)inch and then a 1/2 inch ball valve whose inside diameter is roughly the same 1/2 inch that opens to start with. Then I immediately have it open to 3/4 with a hose barb fitted to the 3/4 braded hose I have gravity feeding the pump. I just did a batch today and it works GREAT ! My tank is only 38 liter so I have to load it twice and a snich for 80 liters which is what I have determined is the volume I want to process. The 16 liters of methoxide fits well in one carboy so no mid-stream chnages needed. But that is me, your needs may be different. The idea of using the pre-heat is to make life easier on the 1 clear water pump and also gravity feeding hot oil will negate the need to prime the thing as the oil will rise in the sight tube after having filled the pump cavity. The pre-heat does not do a very good job of reaching processing temperatures though (even if the thermometer says so)and the reactor's heater will still have to be used to get everything up to speed before adding the methoxide, but at least it gets things started on the right foot. I suppose a stronger pump would negate the need for the pre-heat altogether, but gravity feeding would still be a good idea. Why make the pump fight for it ? Making the feed at least 3/4 inch to match the plumbing is the way to go, but bigger and then reduce to 3/4 inch would probably work even better. Well, that pretty well wraps up this bit on my ups and downs with the pre-heat tank. Thanks for reading. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Environment
First off, it wasn't personal, unless you count yourself as being in the crowd of those so-called christians who have laboured hard and far and wide to enable war, then yes, it is personal. And as for the cop-out way judge not that ye be not juged was used I can only add what the Apostle Paul said about us juging angels , how much more things that pertain to this life, like so-called phoney christians enabling wars that slaughter the innocent. mpst of whom are children and the elderly. It wasn't and isn't a pissing contest to see who is and who is not a better anything, it is however an outright condemnation of all thiose who profess to follow a doctrine of truth and peace when the very behaviour that they demonstrate belies the whole hypocricy of their existance. It is a matter of Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them - Jesus said that too. Actions that belie the nature of words spoken deserve to be exposed for the hypocricy they hide, don't you think? Is not this the purpose of truth, to expose the lie ? But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. (Eph 5:13) Meaningthat whatever it is that exposes the lie is of necessity truth. Now there is one thing my Bible teacher kept telling us when we were learning and that was it is only the hit dog that howls, so perhaps if you's a howling then you's a hit dog, otherwise it doesn't concern you personally even if it does apply to numerous others. It's little like if the shoe fits ect... L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear L, Wow! Judge not that ye be not judged. I don't think this is the appropriate forum for us to debate who is the better Christian. You don't know me and I don't know you. I only pray that you have the peace that passes understanding. Sincerely, Dave Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Grease
As the owner of one of those old Mercedes, I can only say that anyone who would treat their Benz with so much disrespect as to plop SVO or filtered WVO into the tank doesn't understand the quality of the machine nor do they deserve to have one. Reputed as bullet proof, the MB is touted as one of the best for the application of B100 biodiesel, and as such should not have to prove it can take whatever garbage the disrespectful throw at it. Of course, when it does finally drop dead from abuse these pundits will scream that they are just like any other car, which is true. Any car will collapse if it is mistreated enough. Rather than trying to find the break point of whatever vehicle, why don't we concentrate on producing the highest quality product possible given our collective experience and knowledge thereby extending the life of ALL engines, that being a testimony of the value of the product it is required to use one way or the other ? I have succesfully made good fuel with REALLY crappy WVO (10gr/liter) with a net loss of over 30%, and have confidently poured it my Benz's tank. Would I have even considered plopping that crap directly into the car ? Not in a month of crappy Mondays. I will leave such half measures to the fryer to the fuel tank crowd, as for me and my MB, ONLY top rated quality fuel goes in that car. I would rather toss out 40-50 liters of badly made fuel than to just wash it and pour it in anyway, and I have done just that. The result is that I now know the difference, thanks to short and to the point quips such as found here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality I processed my first 80 liter batch on Wednesday morning from WVO I got from a better source than the crappy one and using the sample I took after isolating the plumbing on my reactor I let it settle at home for a day and a half (I work overnight out of town) Tonight I did the quality test and got clean seperation of water and BD inside of 30 seconds, good fuel. I can now drain the glycerine and wash it with confidence for use soon in my 1983 240D Mercedes which I plan on having with me for a very long time. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, There seems to be a fairly cavalier attitude emerging on various lists about SVO use, especially in Mercedes up to 1985 (the OM617 engines), lately (we I see it mostly in July and August every year, then it disappears again in September and the cries for help start going out - it's like the story of the fox and the squirrel!) In summary, the Hubris Song of the Lazy/Cheap Mercedes Owner in Summer goes like this... Yoo -hoo!! Yoo-hoo!! get an old Merc and dump used fryer grease in the tank - they love it! Well, they don't love it. They're very tolerant of abuse, more like, for a while, but don't push it, is my advice. Old Mercedes, the Masochist of Engines? Um, no, not quite. There are limits, folks... As someone who has researched this whole SVO topic for some time (since 1999), and has owned and operated Mercedes cars of this vintage, has done experiments in warm and cold weather on various engines, has followed the work of many others over the last number of years, has pioneered the use of SVO in North America, and, yes, has operated a company that supplies SVO kits and components (the formation of the company followed the conclusions of the academic work, not the other way around!), I would state the following: - Preheating and two tank (start/stop on diesel) works best for all engines, and results in lowest overall emissions with least cost and complexity. *Cold starts are where emissions are worst, for any engine, and cold starting on single tank SVO with anything less than ideal conditions for fuel, ambient temperature, engine and starting system, etc., will most likely result in higher than usual or achievable emissions...so, why push it, at all? Single tank SVO can be used on these engines, but only with quite good, thin oil, preheating of the SVO, and in warm weather. Only do single tank systems when you have the right conditions for it. Medium term results, for SVO use, in general, seem to be very good. Although not well documented (a task for another academic researcher's project...hint, hint!), it seems from anecdotal evidence and lack of failure reports that two-tank preheating approach to the use of SVO, is working well on thousands of engines, over a period of several years and into the tens of thousands of kilometers. Coking is the enemy - coking of injectors leads to poor atomisation (poor spray pattern), and positive feedback loop is created, with negative results. Sometimes very negative, over time. SVO users must do all they can to minimize coking potential, on any engine, and yes, even on the
[biofuel] Re: measuring lye
As Keith does, so do I. I use plastic zip lock type bags. Your concern about the indoor humidity can be overcome if you have a decent air conditioner set with the outside air trap closed. In a few hours the ambient air is fairly dry (drier in any case) as the air conditioner wrings out the humidity as it cools. I did a bunch of 350gr bags, using an electronic scale, and then stuffed them into air tight containers which I take out when needed. Right now I am using NaOH as it is what I have, although down the road I plan on going the KOH route and eventually the acid base process. As is now I am not having any trouble with hardening of the glycerine, but then I have only processed a few batches in my newly built reactor which I extra insulated and it seems to be working fine, although when the colder temps roll in that may change as the building I have the processor in is not protected from the cold and I cannot afford the insulation at the moment, so more adventure on the horizon :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Todd G. Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's really humid around this time of the year and I know that Lye really absorbs moisture fast. How do I measure the lye quickly without it becoming saturated? It also sticks to whatever it's being weighed with and it's difficult to put it all into the blender without scraping it off with a spoon or gloves. Thanks, Todd This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pre-Heat Tank Mods
Bonjour BD'ers. -that just popped into my head so I wrote it:) Anyway, after having just completed my first ever 80 liter batch, which, thanks to the in-built sample recovery mechanism, told me I have good fuel via the quality test (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality) I ran into a small hick loading the WVO into the reactor. Those who have read my previous posts will remember that I used a regular 1/2 in garden hose tap at the bottom of the pre-heat tank and garvity fed it to the pump, negating the need to prime it. Ok, the problem is that the garden hose tap is too small (1/2in)and should there be any really thick stuff it won't go through and the pump isn't strong enough to suck it through either. So, were I to redo the tap I would make it 3/4in and use a ball valve staright in-line rather than a garden hose tap which is essentially a 90* elbow with an even smaller opening inside, so I scrapped the garden tap and went with an in-line ball valve (still 1/2in) but had it open to 3/4in. Tomorow is it's maiden voyage on another 80 liter batch, and I will post the results. Same source for WVO, so processing should be similar; titration will tell the story for sure. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Environment
I am Christian, I do not support war, nor does Jesus support wars. I do not support financially or morally any criminal national interests at the cost of the lives and health of the world's innocents. If the flag of country clashes with the banner of love that flies over the kingdom of God, the national flag takes a powder. THAT is true Christian patriotism, dedication to the love of God and each other, not the nationalistic, warmongering, so-called patriotic blindness of enabling serial war upon the poor of the world. Suffer the little children to come unto me, for OF SUCH is the kingdom of God is what Jesus taught, not make the little children suffer. The Apostle Paul taught that we are to become all things to all men, which means to blend in and participate in whatever country or situation we find ourselves in, not to fabricate the situations to what we THINK it should be and make a financial profit from it. It is the so-called christian that makes the worthy name of Jesus to be despised through bad example and America is at the top of that list. From what people have been exposed to, and considering the absolutely UN-christian behaviour of those who profess to be follwers of Christ's teachings (but don't) it is not difficult to understand why Christianity has been so degraded. Had the damn warmongers claimed to be Budists everyone would have not derided Budda, but looked upon the criminals as an aberation, but because these child killers profess and pretend to be christians it falls on Christ to bear the weight. And so it will be, although YOU who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus but do not are going to have a boat load of expalining to do. Why call ye me Lord Lord and DO NOT the things that I ask? Jesus said that. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Jake: You sure nailed me. I'm one of those of fossils who is a Christian, Conservative, and hopefully a Patriot. I am the guy you all despise and ridicule at every opportunity. Flame on people. If you get a chance you might take the opportunity to have a discussion without all the vitriol. I have always had an interest in alternative energy resources and at one time owned virtually every copy of Mother Earth News. I read all those articles about how the world was coming to an end. Is Paul Erlichman still around? Remember how we were all going to starve as a result of the population explosion? You may not believe this but I also consider myself a conservationist. Abusing your resources is not only stupid but its bad business. Being a conservative, I think about such things. :)) The people on this forum have provided a remarkable amount of very valuable information concerning Biofuels. You are to be commended. I have tried many of the systems you have presented and am very impressed. Your council works. Todd Swearingen is without a doubt very knowledgeable and gives simple and precise answers to the questions asked by those on the forum with questions. Now, I would like to make a suggestion that some of you entrepreneurs might consider. I believe there is an opportunity for many people to earn real good money. This might be a thumb nail bus. plan. Assume your able to collect 1000 gals. of WVO per week. Seems like a reasonable task. That amount should yield 1000 gals. of Biofuel. It should also yield 750# of glycerin. Please don't take it to the grass clippings pile. Glycerin as you all know is valuable. Learn how to Purify it and then assign your wife the task of making a very high value soap. Sell it on the Internet @ $1.50 per 3.5 oz. bar. If she can't make that much soap, pour the glycerin in 2# blocks and again sell it for 2-3 bucks a pound. Let's see what you accomplished. Gross Income BioD $2,200.00 Soap 200# at app. $1,000.00 and the balance of glycerin 500# @ 2.50 /#. Let's see now that's about $4,400.00 in gross income. You might have a Grand in expenses and that seems to me to be a pretty good part time business. Both liberals and conservatives may be able to agree on some things. Biod is Good, Glycerin soap is high quality soap, and I hope all of you have a wonderful day and life.Now go out there all you greedy capitalist and do good. :)) Sincerely, Dave Hannah [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email
[biofuel] Re: plastic pails
Yup, only make it an HDPE-2 pail. see http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics for what that means. Bubble washing might be more difficult than stir washing, so if you have a drill and a paint stirrer have at it and let it settle out and do it again a couple more times until the wash water is clear. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Don Faulkner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If one uses a 5 gallon metal pail, to do the initial mixing of the methoxide and WVO, once the product has separated into the glycerines and methylesters, and the glycerine is drained off, can one then transfer to a plastic pail, for bubble washing? It would seem to me that the bulk of the corrosive lye has been removed with the glycerines and should be safe, but being prudent, I thought I'd ask. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Love Those one inch Clear Water Pumps -G-Mark
All this came about by following your recommendations and hints, G- Mark. The gravity feed from the pre-heat is done via a braded tube that U-loops over the pump's intake and that gives it enough prerssure to prime the pump and send the heated WVO up the sight tube. This, of course, is governed by a ball valve. The entire pump can be isolated, when I need it to be, so once the processing is done I close the bottom drain valve right at the exit point just after the automotive thermometer and that stops anything coming from the reactor to the lines. I then open a top valve, usually tghe one that leads to the wash tank so air can fill the lines and then open up the glycerine drain tube situated after the cut-off valave at the bottom and the other ball valve leading to the pump. What this does is to completely drain the line and pump of ALL oil and provides me with a quality test sample at the same time (neat huh?) which I take home and allow to settle out and run a quality test on to see if I am going to have a problem to deal with or not. When the time comes to drain off the glycerine, I simply leave the isolation valve leading to the pump closed and open an air intake (again, usually the line leading to the wash tank)and then open the cut-off at the bottom of the reactor and then the glycerine drain tube. I get zero backwash into the pump, the glycerine drains clean and when I need to transfer the BD to the wash tank I simply close off the glycerine drain tube and reopen the isolation valve which again re-primes the pump and away I go, only this time leaving the main return valve closed and opening the one to the wash tank and it gets transfered hands-free. I just love the way this system works, and I don't have any problems with glycerine hardening in the pump or lines as it has all been drain off IMMEDIATELY after the processing is done while it is plenty hot to run smoothly. Like I said, I built this on your design and added a couple of tweeks from further posts and from what I could deduct would be the best course to take. If I really want to I can use the pre-heat drum (38 liter cap) as a small processor for small batches (min 20 liters to clear the heater) but it is just as much work if not more than using the full processor so I only did that once as a learning curve. Washed in the same drum using a stirrer, like Keith mentioned he does with his. What I have tried to do is to incorporate the best of what I learned from your and others' experience and designs given my (very)limited knowledge of this whole process, but I am coming along. Having started at the beginning (very much recommended) gives one the opportunity to get familiar with how it works so that when problems arise, and they will, you can troubleshoot them much better. I suspect this is one of the reasons that the two stage process is best left until after proper experience is had with the one stage method; get the idea and the why-for's understood and then move on. Thanks for all you all have done in getting your experience and ideas where newbies like me can access them and hopefully make you glow at knowing you have done a good job. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, skillshare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you read the original long www.veggieavenger.com/media thread on the Appleseed (keith please link this thread from the journeytoforever article it's derived from), you will find an even cooler discovery that someone else made: the Pathtofreedom.com folks use their carboys to prime the processor for the first time (stick a 3/4 hose barb on the carboy lid and plug that into the fill/drain tube). But having a separate preheat tank like you have, is even nicer, as it lets you deal with completely goopy thick oil, and expands your production capacity. mark www.localB100.com --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all; Something happened, somewhat by accident (comes with being forgetful) that resolves the problem of the non-self priming Clear Water Pump that many of us are using. As has been mentioned numerous, times they kinda suck, or actually don't very well :), but that problem is now solved. How? God's own gravity. Instead of having the pump suck from a pail or bucket or whatever below it's position one needs to only gravity feed the WVO into the pump and no priming is necesssary. I do not know if this will work with cold WVO, but it does for sure work with pre-heated WVO, which I discoverd completely by accident having forgotten to prime it when I was ready to load the reactor after having heated my WVO to a little over 55C. As I opened the valve on my pre-heat tank (38 liter capapcity)and the intake valve to the pump I noticed that the sight tube registered oil in the lines, so I simply flipped on the switch to the pump and voila! pumped away like it is supposed
[biofuel] Re: Heating element
First off your 1 inch bushing won't seal it completely without a whack of plumbing tape (the white stuff). Wherever they sell water heaters they usualy also have conversion flnges for those who have a square element and want to install a round screw in type, which is what I did, twice, once for the processor and then I had the second flange welded into the side of my pre-heat tank, and both are 110V. There are two screws on each element and you simply attach one wire to one screw and the other wire to the other. The flange package come with a rubber grommet tha fits well over the whole electrical thing and protects it from electrical shorts. A note of caution however, if you have a square element in your water heater and want to convert it, like I did. Once you make the conversion the cover will no longer fit over the whole thing without touching the electrical contacts so what I did was to thouroughly insulate the INSIDE of the cover with pink insulation and duct taped it down so it wouldn't move and then I only tightened the one screw on the outside of the cover before insulating the whole processor yet further with pink and then followed that with a thermal balnket that they use for heating ducts. It seems to work well. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, josephputzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I've just begun to build a processor out of two 55 gallon drums. I am having a 1 bushing welded to the drum so that I can put a screw- in heating element into the processor. I wanted the bushing so that I can take out the element for cleaning and whatnot. My trouble is that I'm not much for electrical components. I have a 4.5 kw 240 v element. How do I safely attach a power cord with the given wattage and voltage? Is 4.5 kw to high? Should I find a 1.5 or 2.0 kw element instead? Any help would be great! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Handy all Measurement Conversion Tool
This is an .exe file that installs on your desktop or you can have it open in a directory/folder. Someone posted it here a while ago and I find that it is very useful when I need to convey to people in the US volumes that I only have in metric measurements. http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/ Other conversion tools are : http://convert.french-property.co.uk/ http://www.teaching-english-in-japan.net/conversion/celsius With all of these there is no way that anyone will not be able to make any volume conversion in,or from either imperial,US or metric back to either of the above. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Need help on setup of processor
Hey Al; Welcome to the list. There are many models of procesors that all do the job, it all depends on what your particular needs are. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html is where you can several examples. Personally I have opted for the Appleseed fumeless type processor, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html except that I have adapted it for my personal needs. Mine is a 135 liter (30impGal) water heater and a 200 liter polyeurethane wash tank (both approx the same dimensions)paterned after Sean Park's Standpipe design found here: http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) Due to space limitation I enclosed it in a mobile cabinet and use the Harbor Freight/Northern Tools 1 clear water pump for mixing. (it works very well). I adapted a system of methoxide delivery combining the information found at JtF called Methoxide the Easy Way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth and the air assisted delivery of JtF's 90 liter processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html to get past the check valve resistance. I use a pre-heat tank, like the 90 liter, only I have it set up above the level of the pump so that gravity feeds it thereby by- passing the need to prime the non-self priming water pump and the WVO already being at near processing temps of 55C (130F) is easier on the pump to handle. Also mine uses an immersion heater from a 110V water heater element welded into the sie at just a few inches from the bottom of the metal drum, off-centerd to the garden hose drain spout also welded into the very bottom of the small drum (38liter) for complete draining. All electricals pass through a control panel that has the pump, the pre-heat and the reactor all connected via breaker switches which act as on/off switches and twist-lock connections limiting the possibility of sparking should the wires get partly pulled out and creating a potential fire hazzard. There is also one regular 110V double plug for the bubbler and cabinet lights and the whole control panel has an emergency mushroom type kill switch that cuts all electrical power to the unit. The entire unit is wired to a 110V cable that plugs into any 15A wall socket. It measures 3ft wide, 6ft high and 8 1/2 ft long with the fold out table extended out the side. This later can be retracted if not needed or can also serve as a work table in a pinch. Between the reactor and wash tanks is sufficient room for shelves that hold the methoxide delivery carboy and other peripheral stuff. The underside has room to accomodate 10, 22 liter pails (19 inches high) and it is all mounted on casters for mobility. This beast can sit in a spare bedroom and with the doors closed can be fitted with a decorative blanket and no one will be the wiser (except for the odor of WVO) I originally put it together for use in an underground garage but that didn't pan out so now it is still in a compact space so the design is perfect for the task. So, as you can immagine by now, it really all depends on what your personal needs are and the amount of free space you have and whether or not discretion is an issue. Study all the models at JtF and consider what I have just described and put something together that will suit your demands.Just make it safe (fumeless). L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, pcambulance2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am a newbie to this site. I am located in Louisiana and looking for lots of guidance on setting up my own system. I have been on several sites. Initially I wanted to purchase the fuelmiester system but looking at several posts, I am convinced that I need to setup my own system. I am hoping that I have someone close that I can look at their system. Maybe someone is looking to build a bigger processor and wants to sell their smaller unit. http://www.utahbiodiesel.org/~jack/ http://www.veggieavenger.com/ http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html Right now I am leaning towards the hot water heater based system. Is that the best system for doing this? I am a little concerned about safety issues with the system. I really would like a self contained application so don't have to worry about spillage. I also needs groups recommendation on the following pump. Is it worth the money or is their a better solution out there? Dispensing bio-diesel http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/12vobifupu.html Retrieving waste out from pickup locations http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/12vodupu.html Not intended to advertise, just want feedback. Also I don't see a way to filter the fluids being picked up and dispensed. I have read that you need to prefilter the waste oil on pickup so it does not clog your filter. Thanks for any help and feedback, Al Johnson www.goscoot.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names
[biofuel] Re: Methanol suppliers??
Hi Kellen; Some folks here have asked that same question a few times and it seems that some people are having success with racetracks for bulk methanol. You might also want to check out paint stores or the Home/Lowes type hardwares as well. $40 for 5gal (18.9liters) is a bit on the high end. I am paying $35Cnd for 20 liters all taxes included and that is still abit high but I don't have a way of hauling a 200 liter (55galUS)drum away so it's a compromise until I can locate it cheeper and more transportable supply. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kellen Springer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alright, so I'm pretty new to this game and have made one batch of biodiesel using the 2 stage acid/base process. Everything went very well! I've built a vacuum processor out of a hot water tank and am very pleased by the performance of the fuel in my Dodge Ram 24 valve cummins. Here's the question: Where do I get cheap, bulk methanol?? My first batch I spent 40 bucks on 5 gallons of methanol. I would imagine there is a cheaper source. I'm going to be moving to Logan Utah in 2 weeks, anywhere down there for good methanol prices? Thanks -Kellen - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Love Those one inch Clear Water Pumps
Hi all; Something happened, somewhat by accident (comes with being forgetful) that resolves the problem of the non-self priming Clear Water Pump that many of us are using. As has been mentioned numerous, times they kinda suck, or actually don't very well :), but that problem is now solved. How? God's own gravity. Instead of having the pump suck from a pail or bucket or whatever below it's position one needs to only gravity feed the WVO into the pump and no priming is necesssary. I do not know if this will work with cold WVO, but it does for sure work with pre-heated WVO, which I discoverd completely by accident having forgotten to prime it when I was ready to load the reactor after having heated my WVO to a little over 55C. As I opened the valve on my pre-heat tank (38 liter capapcity)and the intake valve to the pump I noticed that the sight tube registered oil in the lines, so I simply flipped on the switch to the pump and voila! pumped away like it is supposed to, so move those pails/tanks/drums ect... above the level of the pump and never have to prime again. Have a nice day. L. PS: I now have 40 liters in the wash tank and another 40 in the reactor settling for me this PM once I quality test the later. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: GMC Diesel
If you really want a bullet proof diesel engine, look into getting a Mercedes. I did, and I love it. :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill wrote: I am concidering the purchase of a 1983 GMC Suburban Diesel. I'm not excactly sure of the motor but I think it's a 5L. The 5.7 liter GM diesel has a poor, and perhaps undeserved, reputation. If you buy the truck, check out the following link: http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/newmain.html Has anyone had any experiance with these running on biofuel. I have read that the best motors to run bio are the indirect injection versions. I know the Ford powerstroke is one but I'm not sure about the Chevy/GMC of this vintage. The 5.7, 6.2 and 6.5 GM engines are all indirect injection engines. I have heard cautions from the experienced people in this forum about using straight vegetable oil with a Roosa Master rotary injection pump. Biodiesel should be ok. If you really want a bullet proof diesel engine, look into getting a Mercedes. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Immersion Heaters
Home Hardware most probably has them. If you are setting up a water heater based processor you might want to check to see if the element used is a square one or a screw-in round one. I believe the 110V ones are all round screw-in(I could be wrong on that) and if so then there is also a conversion flange available at the same place you get the heaters. It literally bolts onto the one existing only has a screw-in section to accomodate the round 110V heater. This same flange will be necessary if you plan on having the heater mounted via welding into the side of a metal drum as the screw is a special thread made for water heaters only and cannot be successfully mounted into regular thread, although some have done it using LOTS of plumbing tape (the white stuff) so it won't leak, but you mess up the thread when you do. That said there are also other sources if you are in the US: http://doityourself.com/store/camco_vp02.htm Canadians can go to Home Depot, Rona Wharehouse or order on-line: http://www.process-controls.com/ASB_Heat/ http://www.omega.ca/shop/pptsc_fr.asp?ref=RIN_HEATERNav= although the Home/Rona route is the best and least expensive (around $15CND) I have two, one for my pre-heat tank and the other for the main processor that required the flange conversion. Should you want to use a flange conversion on the heater itself remember that when you put the cover back over the electricals it will rub against the new wiring and will short out the unit, so insulate the inside of the electricalas cover very well so that it will not conduct electricity. I used standard pink insulation for this with some duct tape to keep it in place and left the bottom screw off so as not to stress it. Then I covered the whole thing with extra insulation to keep heat in longer. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, mark johnson II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: where do can you find those immersion heaters.? _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Correcting an Incomplete Reaction
I processed a 40 liter batch after having made a successful test batch and quality test http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality and the result I got from the 40 liter batch was incomplete reaction due to insufficient heat. It was the maiden voyage of my newly built reactor and I hadn't completely understood it's ins and outs yet. I figured that I would simply just throw on the heater and recycle it for an hour via the pump and so that is what I did and same thing, bad completion, so after a couple days (BD still in the reactor) I got the brilliant idea of re-processing the batch as new oil, so off I went and intended, methoxide in hand, to re-process the batch, but not yet being too familiar with my new reactor's temp gauge (automotive heavy duty) I turned the heat on and off while giving the mix a mix with the pump a few times and then on the last time out the gauge read 150F *%^$$! too hot and I remembered that methanol boils at 148.5F so I figured that I was getting some pressure build up (bright huh?) so I reklived it via the pressure release valve which I have plumbed away from the unit. All in all, I was not able to re-mix with methopxide as I had planned, time constaints forbidding, so I just let the pump go for another 40 minutes at 150F and let it all settle. Before leaving I took a sample of the new mix in a Masson jar home to do a new quality test on it as soon as time permitted and so that is what I did and the result ? GOOD FUEL ! Complete seperation within a minute with milky white water on the bottom and amber BD on top, and a slight middle layer. After 5 minutes no more middle layer and a clear cut seperated milk and BD. I am pleased :) L. PS: Saturday was the first 15 liters that the Benz got from the batch I had processed previously whcih made it about a 50/50 blend. Onwards and upwards. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Small batch in large processor
If you have not yet mounted the immersion heater, then why not just mount it low enough right from the start? (heat rises)Only thing to watch out for there is not to mount it so low that it will burn the bottom of your poly tank, then a better solution would be to get a metal one (about the same size if space is a factor) and then have someone competent (you?) weld a flange into the side and then simply screw in your heater into it. This later is what I have done for my pre-heat tank and it works very well. I also have a spout at the very bottom for draining. Converting this pre-heat tank to a small batch processor is also do- able by locating a suitable top for it and making the required holes for the drill/paint stirrer and the thermometer. A riskier way to do it (due to the methanol) is to do it in an open can although that should never be undertaken indoors as the fumes are dangerous and could cause serious harm, but it will do as little as 20 liters (I have done it). You then can wash in the same tank using the paint stirrer as a pump after you have drained off the glycerine. I did the small batch as a learning curve thing and was happy that I did, although for the time involved I won't be doing that again, opting rather for full batches in the large processor and then washing via pump in a Standpipe tank; http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) The hose coming out of the water side gets attached to the pump and the return is either a hose clamped to the side of the tank or flanged through the side of it. The other exit from the standpipe is for BD only after it's final wash and can also be hooked up to a drill-pump to fascilitate draining. Thr drill-pumps I have work well with processed BD once the glycerine is removed. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does one need to watch out for when trying a small batch in a large processor? The things that i can think of are: 1. The resistance, heater should never get in contact with air, or it will over heat, explosion. One has to calculate the volume in the pump and hoses aswell. 2. The pump has to have liquid up to its entry, or it will not work because it cant suck air. The resistance is a washing machine resistance, and the pump is also a 60w washing machine pump. The processor is a 110 l plastic drum. I havent built the processor yet. I have just gathered all the parts. I have 2 heaters, maby i could mount one lower for smaller batches and the other at the normal level for full capacity. Or am i being dangerously lazy. Am i missing something? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Isolating Reactor Pump Benefits
G'day. I processed a 40 liter batch using my newly completed (minus methanol recovery condenser) reactor based upon the Appleseed design, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html. I added isolation of the reactor pump by installing a couple extra valves, one right after the exit and another just before the pump and another valve in between that acts as a glycerine drain whereby I can open the one closest to the reactor and leave the other one closed so as not to get any backwash from the settled BD. Once the mixing is complete I turn off the pump and then immediately isolate the reactor by closing the valve closest to it and the other one on top nearest the intake (that isolates everything inside the reactor and should I then want to recover the methanol I can then use the valve I have where the anode used to be and send it to a condenser. Ok, the benefits part: By isolating the reacted material immediately inside the reactor I am left with some processed material in the pump and tubes and by opening the glycerine drain valve and one of the ones on top it completely drains all of these into a Masson jar and this material is then left to settle and it becomes test material for quality testing my BD (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality) BEFORE having to wash it or remove it from the reactor. Now I have a question: I did what I have just described and ended up with a tripple layer,unreacted oil I suspect due to not enough heat during processing, so the question is: Can I simply turn on the heat in the reactor to 55C (130F) and then fire up the pump again and cycle it for about an additional 30 minutes and let it settle again to get rid of the unreacted oil so I can have good fuel? My titration was good (I did it twice with the same results both times) and the test batch was also OK. The processed oil has not seen light of day at tis point so I am figuring that it would probably work, but then perhaps someone with a little more experience (most I assume :))could enlighten me on it. Thanks L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Titration Marvels
Well, I have acquired a fairly decent electronic PH meter and re-did my titration for what I believed to be better oil than my 10 gr/liter sludge, but to no avail. It seems my first readings with the pocket meter were good. 10 gr/liter again ! Only this stuff doesn't have lumps in it. No wonder I was told I could have as much of it as I wanted ,Ha! On the more positive side I was tonight authorized to take as much as I could handle from a Chinese restaurant, so I took a sample home and titrated it and it comes out to 4.63gr/liter, nuch better than 10, huh? So I now have a new WVO supplier. That makes three altogether should I need so much, although I ma going to stick with the lowest need for catalyst for now. Question: I was told the Chinese oil is lard although I believe it to be vegetable shortening.Am I correct in believing that this will produce quality BD if processed as other WVO's ? How about the gel point? Thanks. L. PS: I am VERY happy with the new meter, a PinPoint PH monitor from American Marine designed for continuous use on battery or 110V adapter. Esay to calibrate with the supplied buffer solutions and easy to read how-to instructions for care and maintenance (a must for me) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Miles and miles and miles
Hense the need to support local small family farmers who can produce sustainable crops in an earth friendly way (organic farming being prefered here) reducing all those polutants and helping to support sustainable farming at the same time. Here, we buy from the organic farm first and foremost and then, and only then, if we cannot get what we need there we will go and buy from the organic counter at the big store. It's fresher, it has retained most of it's nutrients and it has helped the local economy by supporting a small family farm, win win. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The global food trade - the vital numbers - For every calorie of carrot flown into the UK from South Africa, we use 66 calories of fuel. - Of every 100 fruits consumed in the UK, only five will now have been produced domestically. - One shopping basket of organic products could have travelled 241,000 kilometres and released as much CO2 into the atmosphere as an average four-bedroom house does through cooking meals over eight months. - In 1998 the UK imported 61,400 tonnes of poultry meat from the Netherlands. In the same year it exported 33,100 tonnes of poultry meat back to the Netherlands. - In 1997 126 million litres of milk were imported into the UK, while 270 million litres were exported at the same time. - In 1999 the EU imported 44,000 tonnes of live bovines from Argentina, 11,000 tonnes from Botswana, 40,000 tonnes from Poland and over 70,000 from Brazil. In the same year the EU exported 874,211 tonnes of live bovines to the rest of the world. From: Local Food, Global Solution The Ecologist http://www.theecologist.co.uk/article.html?article=313 Taking the Pith A glass of orange juice can use up 1000 glasses of irrigation water, 22 glasses of processing water and 2 glasses of diesel. We need plenty of fruit in our diet but we don't need to destroy the environment in the process. The report also finds evidence of child labour in the orange picking industry in Brazil and Mexico and worrying levels of pesticide residues on crops. The alternatives, such as fairtrade and organic, are also analysed. (PDF 476 Kb) http://www.sustainweb.org/publications/downloads/ff_pith.pdf See also: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30573/ Soft Energy Paths -- http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/focus/story/0,13296,951962,00.html Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Miles and miles and miles How far has your basket of food travelled? Research by Robyn Lewis, Felicity Lawrence, and Andy Jones Saturday May 10, 2003 It can be summer all year round now, as we buy fresh vegetables from Africa, potatoes from the Middle East or fruit from Latin America. Today retailers can source food from wherever it is cheapest around the globe at the touch of a computer key. But to meet this demand, our food is transported further than ever before, often by air. That makes it a major contributor to greenhouse emissions and climate change. It also means a heavy dependence on a resource that is not only finite but also highly politically- charged: oil. So our food supply is more vulnerable than before. By blockading a few depots during the fuel strike in the autum of 2000, protesters were able to bring the system perilously close to collapse. There is another price to pay: despite the appearance of near perfection in imported fresh fruit and vegetables, new research has found that the further they have travelled, the more their vitamin and mineral content deteriorates. Local or sometimes frozen food are more likely to have preserved their goodness. We bought a basket of 20 fresh foods from the major retailers on one day last month and tracked the food miles it had clocked up. We found apples from America; pears from Argentina; fish from the Indian ocean; lettuce from Spain; tomatoes from Saudi Arabia; broccoli from Spain; baby carrots from South Africa; salad potatoes from Israel; sugar snap peas from Guatemala; asparagus from Peru, garden peas from South Africa; red wine from Chile; Brussels sprouts from Australia; prawns from Indonesia; chicken from Thailand; red peppers from Holland; grapes from Chile; strawberries from Spain and beef from Britain. Our total basket had travelled 100,943 miles. 1 Apples From the USA, a journey of 10,133 miles. 76% of apples consumed in the UK are from overseas. A Friends of the Earth survey of supermarkets found that at the height of the British season, the majority of apples on sale were imported, many from outside the EU. Over 60% of the UK's apple orchards have been destroyed in the last 30 years. 2 Sugar snap peas From Guatemala, a journey of 5,457 miles. Guatemalan sugar snap peas are flown to the UK. Air freight is the most polluting form of transport. Their journey releases more than 4,500g of
[biofuel] Re: Information on getting started
Hola Jose; Como dise Sr Keith, Uds puede encontrar toda la informacion que quieres sobre la producion de biodiesel en el sitio http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html. Mismo si mi Espanol no esta perfecto y si Uds tiene problemas a comprender Ingles, talbez yo puedo intentar ayudarle a traves de esta lista. Si no, favor utilisar las informaciones, impiesa a la primera lecion y continua despues. (not too bad for a Canadian eh?) English: As Keith mentioned, you can find all the info you want at JTF. Even if my Spanish is not perfect and if you have trouble understanding English perhaps I could help through this list. If not , then please use the information starting at the first lesson and then progressing. L. PS: It also gives me an opportunity to practice the Spanish I learned :) --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jose Arevalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Biofuel Group: I am interested in begining my own biofuel production. There is a lack of technology in how to go about doing this here, Central America, so all your advice and guidance will be key for me to get started on my way to making my own biodiesel first and then sharing this information with others around me to help make others more concious as well. As I mentioned, there is a serioius lack of environmental conciousness here so this is a first step for me personally in that direction. As you may know this is a very beautiful part of the world and it is a shame to see how people are not helping to protect their own patrimony. Can you please send me or tell me where to find the easiest recipe or guide to getting started so I can begin on this new venture. I have some people identified as potential Waste Vegetable Oil providers but first things first... I want to test making my own first batch to get my feet wet. Hopefully, I will be able to produce enough to show that this is a valuable way to make alternative energy Thanks in advance for your valuable help and guidance. Best Regards, Jose Arevalo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: proper titration level?
Hi Rob: Don't know how you got those numbers, although the method is best described here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate and scroll down to the Better Titration as well. A sample of WVO (4ml)is placed in Isopropyl alcohol (40ml)and then drops of 1% lye solution is added slowly to PH 8.5. The number of ml of 1% solution it takes to get to 8.5 is the number of gr/liter of oil you add to the basic 3.5/liter when using NaOH (sodium Hydroxide/Red Devil). Unless you have extraordinarily poor oil (like I had recently at 10gr/liter) you should not be getting these numbers. Something along the lines of 1-3gr/liter on top of the 3.5 is where most will reside. Another aspect is the calibration of the PH meter, which was just deal with a couple of days ago. This is extremely important as it will throw off your PH reading and you will end up making glop soap instead of biodiesel :( I also use an elctronic scale accurate to .01 gram and has a calibration weight with it so tha I can check it regularly. With these scales it is also important to zero off the container before adding lye for weight measurement, otherwise you don't get a good reading and won't put in enough lye and end up with an incomplete reaction. Re-check your process. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Rob Crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, I did my first titration on WVO today, and I have a question. I used the basic process outlined at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html . I used a digital scale to measure the Red Devil lye and a calibrated digital pH meter. I noticed that the pH changed rapidly, leveled off around 8 for a while, then rose rapidly again to more than 12. I repeated the titration and made notes of the change with each drop (83 drops total!). The pH started at 5.6 for the WVO alcohol solution. The pH crossed 8.0 at about 0.7 mL and stayed flat to about pH 8.2 at 1.4 mL, then rose gradually to pH 9.0 at 2.2 mL. After that it shot up to pH 12 by 2.4 mL. My questions is where is the proper titration level to use for calculating the amount of lye required? Is it when it crosses 8, 8.5, 9.0 or does it not matter? I made a chart of the change in pH with each drop, It is quite interesting. http://www.robertcrowley.com/biodiesel/titration.html Should I err on the side of more lye, say 2.2 mL plus the 3.5 mL, to ensure a complete reaction? Comments appreciated. Thanks, Rob Crowley Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: From Sludge Oil to BD
I don't know how that would work or not, but that is not what I did. I processed the oil with a dill and paint stirrer, but as for the methoxide it wa done via the Methoxide the Easy way described here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth and then this mixture was added to the oil as it was being stirred slowly through controlled release via a partly opened valve. I have it all set up for use in a full blown reactor using a water heater closed system, this 20 liter batch was a large test batch of sorts. This weekend will be the first full 80 liter batch I will be attempting, and now that my PH meter is well calibrated it should go well (should being the operative word, not a guarentee, ha!) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To avoid accidents, using a drill to prepare your methoxide, you could cover your drill with a clamp (is that the right english word ? ) cloth or towel. Be carefull please. Vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: [biofuel] From Sludge Oil to BD Well, I have completed my first batch other than a small test batch. It was done with horrible oil, titrated to 10gr/liter and the batch started life as a 20 liter batch and is now about a 15-16 liter batch, maybe a little less. Loads of by-product which I will turn into a degreasing soap, I hope. After washing and allowing to settle a pumped it through a couple of filters and it is now drying until the next time I need to fuel the Benz, at which point in it goes. The tank used is the one I have set up as a pre-heat tank with an immersion heater welded into the side of it and I did the methoxide mix in an out-of-doors concept (as I didn't have a cover for it) using a drill and paint stirrer and then after draining the glycerine I then washed it using the same stirrer and about 30% water to BD ratio. The next batch will be an 80 liter batch using my newly built reactor/wash tank unit and this one is 100% closed (except for the wash tank)to fumes escaping and therefore much safer than the open can concept. Had I not been able to do the methoxide mix literally outside then I would not have done it until able to securely close off the fume potential, nor do I foresee doing it that way again as a spark from the drill motor and, well, L. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ??
HI Peter; I am one of those guys that only needs to understand that if I want light I just have to flip on the switch, I leave the electrical engineering stuff to the professionals, and so it is with a scientific explanation of water in my case, I get lost, although I am certain that there are some who actually do understnd it all and that is a good thing as we need the professionals to teach us non- pros how it works. As for your English, don't worry about it, you are doing very well. I guarentee you that if I were to attemp Dutch then we would all understand what the term terrible means :) Having had to learn a language that I was not brought up with I can understand that it is at times a little intimidating, in my case it was Spanish and it si still not perfect but it is functional and that is what I was aiming at, but not to worry, practice will help you improve what little needs to be done, so like I said, don't worry about it, no one here is going to critize you about it as we are all in the same boat when it comes to dealing with languages that are not our native tongues. Have a nice day. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A little bit difficult to explain in english, but I'll give it a try. pH means potential of H+ ions. In pure water you will find this balance : H2O + H2O OH- + H3O+ , where the balance is very much on the left side, but a little bit of protolyse is measured in pure water. At 25¡ C one will measure 1.0 x 10-7 [OH-] and of course also 1.0 x 10-7 [H3O+] When you take the negative logarithm of 10-7 (10 exponent -7) you find 7 and that is what we call pH = 7. So when for example [OH-] goes to 1.0 x 10-5, the other one [H3O+] has to go to 1.0 x 10-9 H3O+ is often called H+. In this case pH = 9. When H+ is 1.0 x 10-9 ( pH = 9 and pOH = 5 ) your solution is more basic. I hope you can understand my terrible english. Vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] Why is the pH of pure water 7.0 ?? Hi all list members ; While we are on the subject of pH, can anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why the pH of pure water is 7.0?? And I don't mean because it is in the middle of the range. Peter G. Thailand --- bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And THAT is one of great benefits of this list, the mountainous combined experience of it's members ! Thank you very much for your answer as it helps me a great deal knowing that I was not having a twilight zone moment with my PH meter. Yes, mine does have the little adjustment knobs and I have purchased two seperate solutions, one a PH-7 and the other a PH-10 and will be doing the calibration today so I can properly titrate my WVO for the next batch. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi L ; pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily. The bulb which senses the pH is very delicate. It can be easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb. Long periods of exposure to air (in other words, drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb. More expensive meters have calibration buttons to compensate for this. With these better meters, you buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly adjust the meter to read the correct value. If you are using a cheap meter which does not have calibration, here are some tips for longest life : 1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or bases. 2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every reading. 3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not expensive. 4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions. If your meter is off a little, you can mentally compensate, but this is not a true calibration. To do a true calibration you need two points to establish slope and offset. Hope
[biofuel] Re: Adjusting PH Meters
Yup ! My meter is whacked. I calibrated it with the solutions and it seemed ok, so I put it away and this morning tried to titrate my WVO again but to no avail so I re-tested it in the solution again and it wouldn't calibrate to 10 anymore so I think the bulb is shot. Mine is one of thos ethat is rigid one-piece and din't com eiwth a neat little bottle to store it in, so now I got to go out and get another one that does. No sense in getting another one of the same or just replacing the bulb as it will be the same old same old all over again soon, so it is one with an extended electrode that is easily removed and stored in PH solution. At least that way I will have somewhat eliminated that as a variable :) Any other possible solutions to my dilema? I am not adroit enough to go the phenolphthaline route and strips aren't doing it either. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Philip B. Bechtel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello pH Meter Owners! Calibrate them with standard pH solutions regularly is what my meter's manual says. And they provided me with more little foil packs of 4.01, 7.00, and 10.00 pH solution than would fit in the carrying case. They're called pH Singles, or 20 ml pouches of fresh pH calibration buffer and are certified traceable to NIST Standard Reference Material. Also, did you know that you need to either keep the probe wet in de-ionized water between uses or wet the probe for a few minutes before use in de-ionized water? One source of de-ionized water is distilled water from the grocery store. I have never had a problem with mine, but it's not like I have lots of experience yet and I have always rinsed the probe after use and stored it in the little screw-tight bottle that my probe came with when new. Phil Bechtel bioveging wrote: My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this happen on any kind of regular basis? The new WVO I have is clearly better than the other lot I did and it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch and I do not think this is possible so I acquired some PH solution from the aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and haven't tested them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else has had trouble with PH meters going out of sink. I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than the sludge I did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher than 10gr/liter so something is amiss I am sure. I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post any results, but in the mean time any comments? L. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- - Philip B, Bechtel The earth is but one country- - AARDSYS,LLC and mankind it's citizens. - - (716) 510-6362 -- Baha'u'llah- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.us.bahai.org - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] From Sludge Oil to BD
Well, I have completed my first batch other than a small test batch. It was done with horrible oil, titrated to 10gr/liter and the batch started life as a 20 liter batch and is now about a 15-16 liter batch, maybe a little less. Loads of by-product which I will turn into a degreasing soap, I hope. After washing and allowing to settle a pumped it through a couple of filters and it is now drying until the next time I need to fuel the Benz, at which point in it goes. The tank used is the one I have set up as a pre-heat tank with an immersion heater welded into the side of it and I did the methoxide mix in an out-of-doors concept (as I didn't have a cover for it) using a drill and paint stirrer and then after draining the glycerine I then washed it using the same stirrer and about 30% water to BD ratio. The next batch will be an 80 liter batch using my newly built reactor/wash tank unit and this one is 100% closed (except for the wash tank)to fumes escaping and therefore much safer than the open can concept. Had I not been able to do the methoxide mix literally outside then I would not have done it until able to securely close off the fume potential, nor do I foresee doing it that way again as a spark from the drill motor and, well, L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Follow up to wash pump
OK, I went ahead and attached a drill-pump to the wash tank apparatus and will be using it as soon as I can get my first full batch processed (80 liters). I already have one hooked up to the drain of the Sean Park's Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) on the BD drain side opposite the one for the washing and water drain side and will giving that a go also as soon as the 80 liter batch is ready to process. I figure that spending $10.00 on a drill pump and testing it out for this application is far better than spending $100.00 for a pump (if I can FIND one) that may or may not do what I want and at $10.00 I can afford to have one or two or three burn out, not so with the $100.00 type. Drill-pumps may not be any worth from WVO pumpping, but the lighter BD and/or water/BD mix should not cause any breakdown problems although that is still a theory that needs testing and proving. I'll post what happens, good or bad. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Adjusting PH Meters
And THAT is one of great benefits of this list, the mountainous combined experience of it's members ! Thank you very much for your answer as it helps me a great deal knowing that I was not having a twilight zone moment with my PH meter. Yes, mine does have the little adjustment knobs and I have purchased two seperate solutions, one a PH-7 and the other a PH-10 and will be doing the calibration today so I can properly titrate my WVO for the next batch. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi L ; pH meters go out of calibration VERY easily. The bulb which senses the pH is very delicate. It can be easily affected by strong acids or bases, particularly if these solutions are allowed to dry on the bulb. Long periods of exposure to air (in other words, drying out) is not a good thing either for the bulb. More expensive meters have calibration buttons to compensate for this. With these better meters, you buy some calibrated solutions and then regularly adjust the meter to read the correct value. If you are using a cheap meter which does not have calibration, here are some tips for longest life : 1) These cheap meters are not designed for strong acids and bases, so don't use in strong acids or bases. 2) Rinse the bulb well with neutral water after every reading. 3) When not in use, store in a manner such that the bulb is in a pH 7.0 buffer solution. This can be readily purchased from a lab supply company, and not expensive. 4) Check calibration with pH standard solutions. If your meter is off a little, you can mentally compensate, but this is not a true calibration. To do a true calibration you need two points to establish slope and offset. Hope this helps.. Peter G. Thailand --- bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My PH meter seems to be out of whack. Does this happen on any kind of regular basis? The new WVO I have is clearly better than the other lot I did and it is titrating even worse than the 10gr/liter batch and I do not think this is possible so I acquired some PH solution from the aquarium store (one a 7 and another one a 10) and haven't tested them yet, although I was wondering if anyone else has had trouble with PH meters going out of sink. I checked two seperate lots of WVO, both better than the sludge I did my 20 liter with, and they BOTH titrated higher than 10gr/liter so something is amiss I am sure. I plan on checking my PH meter ASAP and will post any results, but in the mean time any comments? L. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Colour of latest batch
Quality testing is explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality The first wash water SHOUL be milky white as that is where the greatest amount or residuals come out and then it gets clearer on the second and should be clear by the third or fourth at the most. That is the WASH WATER not the BD. It (the BD) may remain a bit cloudy at first but additional settling for a few days (depending on the volume) should yield a shiny amber result. Filter and use. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am also in the process of washing my first batch. It has had one wash so far. When it came in contact with water it turned completely milky white. And did not separate for about 15 minutes. And I think some chemical reaction took place as the quantity of gas in the container (2.5l cocacola bottle) diminished. Is there anythin wrong here? I am a bit confused about the shake test, do you apply it to unwashed or washed biodiesel. Thank you, Teoman Naskali [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event.
Haven't had the time to check out this site yet, but it was on the radio and I thought I would have a snoop. The URL is http://www.greenfuels.org/ for a Canadian Biofuels thing. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Josephine Wee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. Keith As a matter of curiosity, why is it that with oil prices so high today, there is not more concerted effort on the part of the big oil companies to look into this biodiesel? It would seem from reading the email coming my way from the biofuel group, that all such efforts in North America are concentrated in independent individuals. Is it because that the raw material for such production, i.e. WVO, and pure vegetable oil, are not in sufficient viable supply? Is the flash point of biodiesel very low as to be dangerous to handle for the general public to use? Is it because the production process still makes it quite expensive still vis a vis the usual diesel being used today in vehicles? Are there not big time commercial makers and sellers and exporters of such biofuel or biodiesel today in North America? Is the biodiesel still not economically viable for the big corporations to get into it. Many thanks for your enlightenment. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event. Hello Josephine, welcome When you joined you were sent a Welcome message listing a whole bunch of useful resources which will tell you everything you need to know and more. If you've lost it, you can find the same resources listed here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel Or just go to the links at the end of every message you receive - to Journey to Forever and the list's archives. please pardon my ignorance. I am a new member. What is WVO Waste Vegetable Oil. It's not a very good name because it usually contains residues of animal fats, fish oils etc from what's been cooked in it, but the name has stuck, everybody uses it now. Opposite is SVO - Straight Vegetable Oil, uncooked, new, virgin. In Europe SVO is usually called PPO - Pure Plant Oil. Crude oils are as they come from the plant, unrefined, such as Crude Palm Oil - CPO. I don't like acronyms, but these are in common usage now. and who is NBB? The National Biodiesel Board in the US, which was formed by soy interests and largely controlled by the big corporations involved in industrialised soy production. I suppose you can regard the NBB as the trade association of the big, centralised commercial biodiesel producers in the US. They're not very popular with small-scale producers and home-scale producers, for good reason. There's a good database of biodiesel information at their website though. What is feedstock? The raw material you use in any production process. In producing biodiesel, the feedstock is the type of oil used, whether WVO or SVO, from soy, sunflower, rapeseed, or whatever. Thanks for the enlightenment. You're welcome, hope it helps. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:01 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: My view on diesel cars, and a notable event. Hello Pierre Keith, I am looking for reports comparing emissions from virgin vegoil biodiesel and watse oil biodiesel. I have left a couple of messages here and there. Do you have any leads? No I don't. The EPA accepted the NBB's data on virgin soy biodiesel as equivalent to all the rest, whatever the feedstock, including WVO. Big-time European producers commonly use WVO, the standards are strict there. Why would there be a difference? Unless it's badly made, not washed properly. Best wishes Keith Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this is interesting: The UC Davis biodiesel study -- Chemical and Bioassay Analyses of Diesel and Biodiesel Particulate Matter: Pilot Study -- Final Report by Norman Y. Kado, Robert A. Okamoto and Paul A. Kuzmicky, Department of Environmental Toxicology, University of California, Davis, California, November 1996. This U.S. Department of Energy study found that the use of pure biodiesel instead of petroleum- based diesel fuel could offer a 93.6% reduction in cancer risks from exhaust emissions exposure. Acrobat file, 3.1Mb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/UCDavisBiodiesel.pdf UC Davis biodiesel study -- summary: the Summary, Results and Discussion sections of the report, in html format.
[biofuel] Wash Pumps
OK, I am having no end of trouble locating a self-priming, non- submersible pump that works for drawing water and doubling as a wash pump for the BD, so the question is, Has anyone tried using a drill- pump for washing a batch of BD , and if so how did it do ? I read in one of Keith's posts that the drill-pump kinda sucks for WVO, so that angle is convered, and I have one set up to pull/push the finished BD from the wash tank through a couple of filters and that seems to work like a charm, but then I have only tried it with 20 liters so far and that is not really indicative yet, but it shows promise, BD being much more maleable than WVO is viscosity. So, now it would be nice to know if anyone has given the venerable drill-pump a go at washing. Any takers ? Thanks L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] In Line WVO Strainer
I am sure that certain folks could put a product such as this to good use. It is an in-line strainer for used oils to get the chunks out, so if anyone is using a pump to get at their used oil this seems to be something useful.Cheap too. US distributor reputed to be bad with international orders though. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf? itemnumber=46184 L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: pneumatic exhaust silencers / final filtering of biodiesel
G'day Greg; http://www.mscdirect.com/MSCCatLookup2.process?MSCProdID=60526142 has the pneumatics you are looking for. They are in the US, so if that is where you are you can easily order them. As far as filtering goes, and I could need a little guidance here also, what I am going to do is, after the final wash, run it through a home heating furnace filter (it has a felt insert)as well as a clear in-line fuel filter effectively filtering it twice and then let it set for a week or to to see if anything else settles (which it shouldn't but...) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, gregg2560 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I was wondering where I could purchase the pneumatic exhaust silencers that Ian uses. A few years ago, we used something very similar to them in an early oil/grease extraction test in our wastewater lab, which I was able to scrounge up. If what I have is what Ian uses, then he's right, they don't dissolve in BD, hexane, or acetone. Also, my latest batch of biodiesel is nearly finished I was wondering what type of final filter I need to use, ie 20 micron, 10, etc.I searched the archives didn't find anything, but perhaps I did not look in the right spot. As always,any help,suggestions, or advice is greatly appreciated. Sincerely Gregg Davidson Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mayo style BD, was Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
When I was having this problem it came back to titration. I use a PH meter as I have found that solutions and papers aren't doing it for me, and so it takes a bit of getting used to but it works well. Another important factor is the scale you are using. Does it zero off the container you are putting the catalyst in so that the only numbers you get are the actual weight of the lye and not that of the container also? Improper titration will give unreacted oil as you will under estimate your need and, in my case, I got mayo that wouldn't break. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate is the titration method I use and to test to see if what I have made is good fuel or just shiny unreacted oil, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality It works very well. You have to be a bit patient with PH meters, or at least in my case that is the way it is, as they tend to settle and if you have jumped the gun you will underevaluate your need for catalyst, which I did several times before getting it right. As far as the quality percentage of the methanol, it SHOULD be on the bottle somewhere, but if not, the company just has to have a website or toll free number you can call or visit or email or something. Of course you could simply change brand and see what gives. When I make a test batch I first titrate using the above mentioned method and divide by 4 like it says, but then I further divide by two as I only do 500ml batches further reducing the margin for error. I also use only lab graduated cylendars for measurements and a lab electronic scale too as I am completely innept at guesstimating or attempting to figure out which of the variables screwed up (when I do) so I wanted to eliminate as many of those variables as possible, hense all the lab grade stuff :) so now when something does go awry I can usually understand close to TDC (Top Dead Center)what happened, and then there is always the brave and patient folk here if I am still not too sure :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pieter, Seems I'm pretty good at making mayonaise but BD is another story. As I've done a step by step analysis of all concerned parts of the proces the only unknown is the quality of my methanol. The bottle doesn't say what the percentage of Methanol is May I ask where you get your methanol or who is the producing company? Mny thx, Pieter From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:13:15 +0200 The number is 06 2049 38 58 (Jan de Jong). Mention my name if you wish, and maybe you'll even get it a little cheaper. I have a small factory and Jan is my supplier. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re:
[biofuel] More on Lumpy BD
I have just completed another test batch with the re-titrated oil and got a thin layer of by-product glycerine at the bottom of the Masson jar. Of course this may be attributed to the supplement of WVO I tossed into the frey or it is residual from the first process or a combination of both. Had I been a little more foresoughtful I would have simply re-processed the original lot as Todd suggested once to see if any glyc remained, but I wanted to have a round number (!) so now I will let that settle until tomorow and continue with the quality shake test. That should do it. In the kitchen I can control the heat and mixing easily, so now I have to translate that to the larger volumes. Friday will tell if I got it right or not when I re-process the entire 2o liter batch using the new titration numbers. The NaOH is disolving in the methanol as we speak and should be ready for when I am ready to use it. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Lumpy BD
Actually the one I used for this test was open, but for what all purposes is, outside. My full blown processor is completely closed and fumeless, this is the pre-heat drum which had it's immersion heater welded too high on the wall and I had to use a hotplate (electric) and the heat died off way too soon, which is what leaves me to think it was heat related, not process related. In any case I am redoing the batch again this Friday only this time I am having the heater on the drum MiG welded lower so that I can better control the heat all throughout the process, again for all practical purposes, outside. The unit is housed in a pump house and I redid the doors into a barn door configuration so that they open wide right in front of where I am working. Now if I can find one of those ring closures between now and Friday I will install that as an added precaution. The methoxide is being injected via a combination of Methoxide the Easy Way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth and JtF's use of an aquarium air pump to pump in some pressure to the carboy's vent inlet which I have rigged with a delrin sleeve in the cap. A delrin sleeve is a copper tube about an inch or so long (2- 2.5cm) that is flarred at the one end so I drilled out a hole through the cap and vent inlet area just big enough to not allow the flanged part to go through and then I screw down the cap with this sleeve between it. It is just the right size for an aquarium air line to attach and once the cap is firmly screwed down it is air tight too (no fumes). Up until now it was not a simple matter to get hold of KOH that was reliably pure or whose purity was easily attainable (the numbers aren't on the container, go figure)so I went with the NaOH instead, but then I was offered some lab grade (99.9%) KOH after having bought the sodium so I have yet to have a go using that.. Another reason,I believe, it solidified so much is that, as I said, it is in a pump house, and the temps at night went down to 13C and it being in an open drum didn't help nor did the fact that it is pretty crappy oil (titrated to 10gr/liter)so there was A LOT of by- product :). Anyway, I am having another whack at it this weekend toping off the processed oil with some fresh WVO, only better quality this time, to make 20 liters again (I like round numbers)and re-titrating it to 4.75gr/liter and we shall see what the results will bring. De-gunking the lower plumbing in a water heater style processor requires applying heat from the tank's immersion heater carefully so as not to stir up the mixture again and having to have it re-settle. In order to not have the pum[p and exterior plumbing get gunked up I have installed two isolation valves that will allow me to completely drain the pump and plumbing once the processing is complete, yet retain the settling inside the tank. Once it has settled, I can drain the glycerine via a hose BEFORE it gets to the pump and then the BD can be pumped into the wash bin using the clear pump afterwards.(Also washing out any possible small residues en route) OR I have it set up so that I can easily incorporate a second settling tank a la JtF 90 liter processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html using a secondary tube to send it there again using the same pump where it can settle while I do another batch and simply let it settle in the processor itself. I have a seperate wash tank adjacent to the processor so I can wash two batches at once, the one with a bubbler and the other with a pump or whatever and use up the bubbler one first and use the other one later. I don't think I can get away with 160 liters in a 200 liter wash/settling tank with the water needed to properly wash it or with the by-product that will accompany the two 80 liter batches, so then I may just do a 100 liter batch and toss it in the extra settling tank and then do another smaller one (80 liters) and let it settle in the processor, or another 1oo liter for the main processor to handle.(it's flexible)The wvo is no problem as I have two suppliers that told me I can help myself to as much as I want, so that end is covered. Thanks for your input. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good day; I made a test batch of 20 liters the other day and when I checked it for quality using the method described at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality it returned good fuel with clear and distinct seperation of unwashed fuel in less than 30 seconds. The problem is that when I poured out the BD into a bucket (as the glycerine had solidified at the bottom of the drum)it was lumpy, as if gelatine clumps were floating around in it. Is this due to the temp having dropped off during processing or perhaps incomplete reaction even though the quality test came back positive ? Any input ? Wash it and see. Let
[biofuel] Re: Extending storage life of biodiesel
Is this a known factor and what are the volumes involved using citric acid as a stabiliser? (I am one of those granola types) Would a standard 20 or 60 liter tight head drum (poly)/carboy work for storage using the citric? And we are refering to B100 right ? thanks L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most effective antioxidants for biodiesel are the same you find in breakfast cereal packaging, namely BHA and BHT. A mixture of the two works even better. Now you can buy premixed antioxidants from companies such as Kodak. It only takes a few ppm to make a dramatic impact on shelf life of biodiesel. For you natural granola types, citric acid can easily double the shelf life of biodiesel. The most effective method is to keep it in an airtight container. Also, dry biodiesel is far more stable. If this is not possible, such as being in a standard fuel tank somewhere which must be vented, then the NBB recommends using the biodiesel within 6 months. These preservatives will make this last two to four times as long without serious oxidation. You should also know that biodiesel made from recycled yellow grease lasts approximately twice as long as biodiesel made from virgin soy oil. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 5:09:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone had any experience using some inert gas such as nitrogen to prevent oxidation of stored biodiesel? Perhaps some sort of oxygen absorber? If there isn't any oxygen in contact with the biodiesel perhaps it would increase storage life.How might this affect algae growth? Lurch - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fords biodiesel
Zac; All of those questions and more are listed at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html. As an added bonus it will instruct you in how to make your own, the ins, and outs, what to and what not to do when brewing your own biodiesel from either SVO (straight vegetable oil) or WVO (watse vegetable oil) You will find that all diesel vehicles made after the mid eighties did not use real rubber for theri pumps, fuel lines ect... and you will also learn that even some of those vehicles made prior to that date did not all necessarily suffer any degradation of fuel return lines predominantly. Is your Ford 350 diesel compatible with well made (emphasis on well) biodiesel without engine modification ? Yes ! Methanol that is still in biodiesel is NOT well made, it should have been washed out at the end of the process, check the info at the link provided and should you have further questions on anything related to alternative energies this is the place. So, go learn how to make quality fuel and change your truck's diet for better health :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Zac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I own a 1990 Ford 350 diesel van with a 7.3 liter engine, and I'm wondering if it can be run on biodiesel. I thought I had read someplace that Ford engines use rubber in their injectors and injector pumps, which the methanol in biodiesel would dissolve. My questions are: 1. Is this true? 2. If it is true, if I distill most of the methanol out of it, would I avoid this problem? 3. Is there anyone on this list who owns a Ford diesel who is running it on either biodiesel of veggie oil? Thanks for your help, Zac Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Lumpy BD
Good day; I made a test batch of 20 liters the other day and when I checked it for quality using the method described at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality it returned good fuel with clear and distinct seperation of unwashed fuel in less than 30 seconds. The problem is that when I poured out the BD into a bucket (as the glycerine had solidified at the bottom of the drum)it was lumpy, as if gelatine clumps were floating around in it. Is this due to the temp having dropped off during processing or perhaps incomplete reaction even though the quality test came back positive ? Any input ? Thanks L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Check Valves
Does anyone know if check valves have to be mounted horizontaly or can they be plumbed vertically with the flow going downwards ? It is for the methoxide delivery for the processor I built based upon G- Mark's Appleseed Fumeless Processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html Once I have completed a 20 liter batch successfully I am now ready to have a go at a 80 liter batch for my processor's maiden voyage, although this one aspect of it nags me. Thanks L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: please help...
Actually, in the US, Flying J truck stops HQ'd in Ogden Utah makes it a pleasure to make available their pricing as compared to all other competitors and if you send them an email they would most welcome it, I am sure. They are known to make this data available through their monthly send out newsletter, I can't remember the name but they know it :) That should give you a fairly decent cross section of diesel prices cross-US, although I am not certain if it reflective of consumer pricing or truck fleet pricing, you'd have to ask as their stations offer pumps for both the big rigs as well as cars using diesel fuel. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, rico suavae [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,as of this morning in NW Indiana Diesel is going for 1.63 per us gal.Across the state line it varies but is generally .20 per us gal higher due to state and county taxes. Rico baketampangetko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: does anyone knows literature/published articles about comparative prices of biodiesel and petroleum diesel? need it for my school research.. thank you very much beng p.s. the more recent/latest prices the better.. :) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
And THAT is the reason why the Oz government taxes backyard BD brewers. 0.93/liter ? Someone is making a bundle, wonder who THAT could be ? There is no valid reason that dino diesel would be more expensive than regular petrol as it costs less to produce, although with all those lories needing fuel and the economy being ripped off with high transport fees should give you an idea. John the coward Howard's gov have their priorities in big business's profit line, just like the US and UK, at the expense of the people of their respective countries. Of course there is alwasy the school of tghought that says that one could just as easily make one's own BD and if anyone should ask what you need the methanol (methyl hydrate) for and the lye (sodium or potassium hydroxide) one could quite truthfully say that one is making soap. It's a bit of a catch me if you can approach and if that peson were to be discreet and not go shooting their mouth off one could most likely get away with it. The methanol, other than the original start up costs, is what will kick up the expense, but if you recover and reuse the meth your costs go WAY down. SHould one be a little concerned about the tell tale smell one could always mix it with 10-20% dino to camouflage it :) I am not one for excessive government meddling in things that are for all intents and purposes beneficial when it hurts no one (but big oil) and is actually good for the environment, good for the consumer, good for the business that has to pay to have the stuff carted off. It's total win-win (except for Rockerfeller ect...) The pitance that they don't get in road use taxes is more than offset by all the thievery they have been up to, as in spending MILLIONS on illegal wars ect..., so no guilt trip either. But it IS rocking the boat and going against the system du jour and if that same system finds you they will do what they do best, oppress, but the moral victory still stands and the publicity will only serve to highten interest (not to say that being a martyr is something to wish upon one's self but if it happens make the best of it). And that is my tupence. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, NEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Keith? Jake? Donald, I have no idea who's post I'm responding to, but I managed to read some of it, I was confused by what may have been responses inserted in the main text. need to change the fonts for that I reckon. Anyhow, I live in oz oztralia and the current price for diesel here in a major city is $1.04 centsau per litre and we have 4.54 litres to the gall. I think your gallon in the usa is 4litres. diesel here is dearer than unleaded petrol why? nobody knows. I have found a biodiesel outlet here in Newcastle NSW. it's the factory that makes it for farmers in another state and they will sell me all I want at get this $0.93 cents litre. The fact that it is not cancerous ought to make people with cruisers that have diesel fumes coming over the transom be a very good reason to change over. I wont comment on the Iraqi invasion as I'm very left wing and think the white house and the nearest insane asylum need to change places, the world would be a better place and thirty thousand iraqi's would still have their lives. Anyway im takin my truck up to this place with a few (44gal) drums you callem 50 gal over there. and fill up with the bio.. Cheers Neil. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Finished Fuel Colour
I have re-reading the information at journeytoforever.org about making quality fuel ect... as a refresher before setting out to make my first 20 liter batch on the weekend. The methoxide is mixing as we speak in a closed carboy sitting in a cool dry place. It is the same oil I titrated for before so the precentages are a known factor. I quality tested it using the shake test and it came up great, so now on to better things (?) The question I am having relates to BD colour in the finished product. It seems that the finished BD should be something like straw yellow? Is this even with WVO ? I got that with fresh canola but not with any of the tests I have done with WVO, so am I fretting over nothing ? My main processor/wash tank unit is 99% done and I hope to finish it off too on the weekend and should this 2o liter batch go well I will then attempt a 100 liter batch using the Appleseed processor (with a couple mods) I made. And since pump washing gives a better result (it seems) I shall endeavour to do that as well, although the 0 liter batch will be stir washed with the same paint stirrer as I am going to use for the processing. I figure if it can take a pump it can handle a paint stirrer :) The test batches I am getting an amber colour to and all the other factors seem OK, so what is with the straw yellow thingy ? Thanks L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Water Heater Warning
Good day; Having just finished installing the electricals on my reactor (water heater) this weekend I thought I would pass along a potential risk when converting these to 120V from their 240V original. I don't know about most but the one I got had a square flanged heating element and the 120V conversion element is screw in round. This in and of itself is not a major problem, although a word of warning is in order. The conversion flange can be bought wherever they sell the heaters, just ask. What happems though is that once you have disabled the upper element and installed the conversion flange to be able to screw in your 120V element the lower one now sticks out further than it did originally with the flat square flange so that you are not able to put the metal plate back on the lower part without getting contact of the poles and shorting out the unit. A work around would be to use a ball pean hammer and dent out a space for the protruding element or simply not replace the lower plate and cover the lot with insulation, duct tape itin place and then proceed to complete the extra insulation required by this sort of design that enables it to hold in it's heat better for a more complete reaction and settling of the glycerine layer. Mine is also equiped with an emergency overheat cut off similar to a fuel cut off in a car or electrical breaker switch should things get too hot. To reset all one has to do is push the button back in, something like the breaker switch, but the problem is that you have installed all that extra insulation around the body of the water heater/reactor, so it would be very helpful when wrapping the extra insulation to cut out a flap type door in it so that you have access to the lower control area of the immersion heater element should you want to use it for methanol recovery or should the emergency cut off reset pop out and you need to get at it. This week I am installing the insulation on my unit now that the electricals are all done. I now have a really neat electrical control box that my brother-in-law made (he's an electrician)that has breakers as on/off switches and corresponding twist-lock entries for my pre-heat tank (equiped with a 120V immersion heater element), my 1 clear water pump, and another for my reactor. Also included is a regular double entry electrical outlet for things such as the lights,the bubbler should I choose to use one, the hot plate for use during titration so I can have warm water to keep all that iso warm, the blender for test batches ect... The whole unit is 120V so it can be plugged in anywhere 120V is available. The breakers are all 15A so as to not overload the system. The control box also has an emergency kill switch that cuts ALL power to everything should I need to make an emergency halt for whatever reason. My first attempts will be to use the 30 liter pre-heat tank as larger test batches before foraging into full 100 liter processing. The pre-heat tank is also equiped with a standard garden hose drain and once I get a paint stirring attachment for the drill I can use the pre-heat tank to both process and then subsequently wash the BD after draining the glycerine via the garden hose drain at the very bottom. This pre-heat tank, of course, is not 100% necessary, although it assures that when I do load the reactor it will be with hot oil so that the pump won't have to work quite so hard to get it flowing and I have it set up at a hgher level so the il will be gravity fed into the pump. Another neat idea that the bro-in-law came up with ( that is not yet tested) is to attach a small ball valve with tube into the priming port of the pump and that way fresh canola oil can be loaded via this tube to prime the pump instead of opening the screw down cap, filling and then replacing the cap and hoping that you did it right. With the attachment you open the fresh oil feed/primer and it keeps on coming until you can see that the pump is doing it's things properly and you then simply close the ball valve. So far this all sounds great in theory but the real test will come when I actually try it out in the real world, I'll post a result even if it is embarrassing :) L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[biofuel] Re: please help...
[biofuel] Re: SCHOOL BUS
You might want to look into a Detroit series 60 engine. They are not recommended for buses in general because they are essentially a big truck motor and a little more noisy, but the noise factor is really the only consideration when they state that they are recommended. The Detroit series 60 is a very good motor, many highway buses use them as well as a good many trucks. Might be worth having a look around for one, just a thought. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Joshua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Without much trouble, huh? Well, will the motor mounts match up? When we put in a tranny that matches that engine will the drive fit? I'm looking for which DIESEL engine will be LEAST trouble to put in. I would have thought that a GMC (Detroit) Diesel engine would be the most likely candidate, being made by the same company and all. As for chassis, school buses have what, like 5 ton suspentions? It's not a truck, although perhaps a truck engine would work great... power is not the big concern in a hippie school bus. ;) Cheers, Joshua --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What size chasse is the bus?If one ton,you can put in a 5.9 cummins out of a dodge without much trouble and it is a far superior engine to what ford or gm offered in their pickups.If your bus is on a two ton undercarriage,you have more options because you have more space and probably will need more torque than the earlier 5.9 engines had.Another route may be mating a 472-500 cadillac or big buick to a multi-speed trans.These gas engines in 1970 versions put out 510 lb.ft. torque at nearly idle and got much better mileage than chevy engines;they did not break and they are still setting around with not too much mileage after the power seats and power windows quit;if you can get a turbo somewhere cheap,you can get 800 lb.ft. torque or more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy
First off I know NOTHING about such things, although the idea of going into a store that deals with kero stoves is good and you would more than likely be able to simply buy a spare element and then adapt it to your application, no ? Problemo solvo'd :) Like I said, I know nothing about it but thought I'd take a whack at it. Aren't most of those things aluminium or an aluminium/magnesium mix ? L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beats me exactly as to what type of steel composition the pre- heater is. Don't think it so much matters as much as the mechanical design. Walk into a store that distributes those ventless kerosene heaters and you'll have more than ample opportunity to see exactly what the general dimensions/design is. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Go Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 2248 Thanks Todd I have made 2 turk type burners and I am just getting into a 3rd mini version and they all use forced (fan air) but I was thinking that if I could put something like that cylindrical thing in maybe it would help to maintain the high heat so I could switch off the fan and leave it go on draught instead. Do you have any ideas as to how I could make one and what out of or is it just 'steel'? Thanks You'll find a smilar device in any ventless kerosene heater. It's a steel radiator, cylindrical with multiple holes, heated by the combusted fuel to the point of red hot, which in turn better atomizes/vaporizes the fuel creating greater efficiency. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Go Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil Stove thingy About half way down the page at http://www.kumastoves.com/oil_stoves.html there is a picture of the burning centre of the stove looking very much like a Turk burner but at the very centre there is a cylindrical mesh feature - does anyone know what it is, what it does and what its made of? (I have asked them but no reply has been forthcoming). Thanks Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fw: Smuggled message to the people of France
Ah mais Robert, c'est formidable comment un message d'importance peut etre dissimuler dans une etiquette, et tres apropos aussi. (It's worderful how an important message can be camouflaged in a label, and very timely also) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can see the tag at http://www.lepow.com/tag/ or http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_anti_bush_label.htm On Jul 15, 2004, at 15:09, Jennifer Doty wrote: Sorry about sending an attachment, but you have got to see this!Ê It's great.Ê Promise no bugs. Ê The attached picture shows a label from a nylon laptop travel bag that Ê is made by a small company here in the USA to be sold in France. Notice Ê the English text.Ê Then note the longer French text, which translates: Ê Wash with warm water. Use mild soap. Dry flat. Do not use bleach. Do Ê not dry in the dryer. Do not iron. We are sorry that our President is an Ê idiot. We did not vote for him. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT lrec_companion_043004.gif l.gif Yahoo! Groups Links ð To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ Ê ðTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ê ðYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: My Last Post
Bad Gustl, bad bad bad. Whack you with a feather, Ha! Not to worry we all do stuff like that and worse. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Please excuse my last post. It was meant to be a private mail and I had decided not to send it and was deleting it when I hit the wrong button in my mailer. I had been sitting on this trying to make up my mind whether or not to send it when I had to take care of some personal business and when I got back I saw that the matter was addressed and the mail unneeded. My apologies to the list. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fw: Smuggled message to the people of France
Don't remember who it was but there are also T-shirts out there with similar appologies for the government of the US in several languages for the American who finds him/herself traveling outside the Empire. Although, I for one, cannot see any applologies that can rightly do the subject justice, but that will be for another day (maybe not). L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Doty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry about sending an attachment, but you have got to see this! It's great. Promise no bugs. The attached picture shows a label from a nylon laptop travel bag that is made by a small company here in the USA to be sold in France. Notice the English text. Then note the longer French text, which translates: Wash with warm water. Use mild soap. Dry flat. Do not use bleach. Do not dry in the dryer. Do not iron. We are sorry that our President is an idiot. We did not vote for him. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Recovering Methanol from Biodiesel ?
Am I understanding the idea here correctly ? Prior to washing the BD, after removing theglycerine layer, I can heat the BD to 150F and recover the methanol from it ? I know I can do this with the glyc layer, but I was not aware that it was possible with the BD itself. Thanks (the things one can learn here) :) L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Newbie Question
Murky is normal. Chicken soup looking huh? It will break. The emulsion is not good, probably incomplete reaction (as I have myself been finding out). It seems, and Todd or Keith or others in know please correct me if I didn't get it, that titration is the key to the one stage process. That is what did it for me. I was not aloowing the proper amount of tinme for the Ph meter to settle on the reading and that caused me to jump the gun (being impatient and wanting to do BD yesterday) but jumping the gun has only made it more difficult as I now have to re- learn what I should've learned in the first place, and that is, how to do it right the first time. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, bigsimpleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks: I have been trying my hand at making biodiesel using Josh Tickells recipe. Then I found JtF and you guys, and learned there was much more to the story! I hope my poor 1982 VW Rabbit will forgive me for what I have poured in it's tank. My qustions are these, if anyone would be so kind to shine light on my perplexion: I have made a batch of biodiesel that reacts this way to the water and shake test: After about 15 minutes, I have a layer of opaque, yellow biodiesel (I am assuming) on top and some milky, turbid water on the bottom. In between is a layer (5% of total volume?) of what I am assuming to be emulsification. 1) Why is the biodiesel opaque? 2) Is this normal? Even in nearly complete biodiesel reactions? 3) I need to work on my titration/process, yes? Related to the washing if biodiesel: 1) If I am understanding what is being said here, if you have an incomplete biodiesel reaction, it will cause soaps. If you wash it gently, you can turn this marginal batch of biodiesel into something that will not harm your engine. True or False? This has not yet been clearly defined, as far as harming the engine goes, but how's about just not having to gentle wash at all and complete the reaction? 2) The great washing debate centers on folks who say you shouldn't have to be careful washing, as well-made biodiesel won't emulsify anyway. True or False? From what I understand from what Keith said about it is that the actual wash technique is not as critical as the completed reaction to start with. Then should on ewish to use pump or bubble the end result is still good fuel, although the controversy seems to be in oxidisation in long term storage using the air in bubbling, whereas this does not occur with pump washing. (Todd ?) 3)Mist washing is more gentle than bubble washing, which is more gently that agitation and/or recirculating pumps? Have I got that one right? Again, this subject had been covered before and it goes to camouflage an incomplete reaction if it needs to be handled with such kid gloves, or so that is the way I understand it. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out with some advice and insight. I do what I can with the limited knowledge I have :) Stay Safe, You too. Matt L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: why someone doesn't make a small processor for sale??
Keith, you should know that you are never a sucker for putting something out that can help someone else, even though there is no commercial profit in it for you. Only those whose life is centered around profit see others who help people for selfless gain as suckers' and needless to say these same profit people are usually deprived of any true value themselves being too enamoured of the currency du jour to stoop to helping another. When the crash happended in the 30's all that cash wasn't worth spit in hell but those who were'nt all that attached to it used it to light fires that could heat and cook for people in need. Depends where a person's sense of priorities are at. On that other part, about buying ready made. Ain't that like settling for instant coffee when a little time invested and you could have organically grown, equitable coffee beans that you could make yourself into some of the best coffee you have ever had, or maybe good coffee (fuel) isn't that important, in which case buy a FuelMiester and settle for much much less than the best. There is something very validating in making your own first test batches and having them come out well, and it is also extrememly validating to think, pray (if you do that), and ponder the ins and outs of building your own personalised reactor and wash system. It takes time, it takes not being afraid to fail or be set back, it takes dedication to the end result, and it takes the drive to get there without anyone's support if need be, although the people here are VERY helpful and straight about what works and what doesn't. Please indulge me in a comparison. Those who have been following Tickell's book's method have to be unlearned of bad habits that the uninitiated don't have as a hang up, and the comparison is something that my Bible teacher told us; it is easier to teach someone who knows nothing about the Bible than to take a person who's mind and heart have been poluted by church doctrines and try to do something with them. Simply put, if you learn it right the first time you won't have to go back later and unlearn the bad stuuf and then learn it right. The process of doing right the first time is much less time consuming and much less frustrating. Take a year, if that is what time you have, and make your own processor and wash system, you won't regret it. Questions about what is what ? Check the archives and if you still can't find it come here and post. Someone will know the answer. Thanks for your indulgeance. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mac Hey guys: I wish I can buy a 10+/- gallons processor made using the journey toforever directions, you know using scrap metal jar or someting like that, if some one spend 50 dollars to make one he/she can sell it for 150 dollars to make some profit. I there is one I like to buy it. Would you? For $150? Well, I don't know... You don't have much time? If we at Journey to Forever can spare the time (we can't, really) to develop something good and useful like this that meets a need and works well, and make it freely available on the Web for anybody, you'd rather reward someone who took advantage of that for their own commercial gain? We get ripped off all the time like this (though not with the 20-litre processor, yet), but we go on doing it anyway. Why? Because we're such nice guys/suckers? Maybe the biodiesel itself might not be as important as the fact that you can make it yourself. You can see people here saying that - their first batch, and they're thrilled to bits. If they can actually make their own fuel, and it's BETTER, then what else might they be capable of? That's the point, we reckon - it's a revolution, not just a shop. Same applies to processors, and to a lot of things. On the other hand, you said three days ago that you want to build a Mother Earth News waste oil heater, also from Journey to Forever, and that's a lot less simple than a 20-litre bucket and will take you much more time. And you want to buy Joshua Tickell's long outdated book, From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, which wasn't much good in the first place, with fresher and better information right here and at Journey to Forever. Why not just do it? Please read this previous message to the list about From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/31729/ The cheapest one I found was over 25,000 the is too much, if you have a vw Beatle, you don't need more than 30 gallons a week. You drive too much. Anyway, maybe I can forestall you a bit and save you a bit of time, so you don't come and tell us that, hey, you've found the answer and it's called a FuelMeister, and it's even endorsed by Joshua Tickell. NOT!!! Do a search for FuelMeister here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ I'll save you the trouble - read this:
[biofuel] Quality Testing BD
OK,so I redid the titration and made another test batch of 500ml. The seperation was alomost instant (under 30 minutes), and then I let it settle for 13 hours (the glyc stayed semi liquid,Ha!) and then I took a sample of unwashed BD and the same amount of water in a masson jar and gave it the heave-ho for about 10-15 seconds. In the past (with another oil source) this would have resulted in emulsion big time that wouldn't break for over a day or so, not good. This time however I got seperation of water and BD almost instantly with white milky water on the bottom and the murky BD on top with no third layer of nothing. One can only suppose that this is what Todd and Keith are on about ? Kinda sounds like a rerun of what is posted at journeytoforever about quality testing huh? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality. Anyway, all that to say that it works out exactly the way described in the link, so no need to compromise on good fuel when it can be had with a little tweak of the process huh? In my case I believe it had more to do with improper titration than anything else. I believe that I was a little too impatient with the PH meter and ended up putting in less NaOH than I needed to. Everything was to the letter; good temp (55C), processing time (18 minutes), NaOH fully disloved in the methanol safely tucked away in my Grolsch bottle and added slowly as the mixing occured, good settling time (13 hours) so now the next step is to do it with a larger batch. My processor is being completed and moved to it's new home next week so then I will be able to get at it. My preheat tank allows me to do smaller batches easily and the collection pails I used measure out to 20 liters each at the inner rim (I used a lab tube and measured it one liter at a time). The one major question I have right now goes back to washing, :). Seeing as how it appears that I now get it as far as good fuel goes (I hope, please confirm) from what I understand bubble washing is good for fuel that will be used soon, but if I plan on storing for any length of time I am better served with a rotating pump to wash after allowing for extended settling time ? Both methods are fine with me as I am now set up to handled either, the bubble wash being more set up that the rotating pump though. That one still needs some brain power, so if you all smell smoke you know what it is, me going short circuit, Ha! Anyway, hopefully I am now on track and can get on with it. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor
Well, isn't that special. I get all set up to do the bubble wash as it is the most touted and lauded way of doing things and NOW along comes agitation and pumps. Goes to show that there really isn't any right way of doing it huh? Otherwise all of this would have been CLEARLY explained before in the simple to follow site details of how-to huh? One overly positive factor is that I have not yet completed the work on the processor/wash assembly and can still do a couple of mods to come back into line with the knowns-to-work-best. Please forgive my being a liitle curt, as you all have put so much time and energy into this and other projects that my complaints are not really pertinent, it is just that to have know this BEFORE commencing to put together a BD unit would have been very helpful. At least those coming after will now know huh? Ever changing, ever advancing; I just want to get it right. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Todd, Ardis I agree with Todd, it's confirmed by what we've found and what we do and what the people we work with have found. Ardis, You will find, after enough experimentation and out of pocket costs, that mechanical agitation in a wash tank is the least expensive, consumes the least energy, requires the least amount of time and leaves you with a finished product as good as or better than mist- or bubble-washing. Plain, pure and simple, mist- and bubble-washing have become institutionalized amongst home-brewers primarily due to the frequency of incomplete reactions that lend to washing problems. I'm afraid that's right. In short, they are both methods of treating incomplete reactions with little kid's gloves in the hopes that any resulting emulsion won't be too bad or too noticeable. The fact of the matter is that no wash method should be used on any batch unless it is known for certain that the reaction has completed. Unfortunately, many people fail to guarantee this for themselves, opting to just go ahead and wash it gently. The method of guarantee is extremely simple. Put one ounce of what is believed to be finished fuel in a baby food jar (or similar) with an equal amount of water. Seal the jar and shake violently for 15 seconds. Completed fuel should begin to separate instantly and there should be two distinct layers in less than ~30 seconds. If it takes longer than this or if an emulsion layer forms any thicker than the normal paper thin interface layer between oil and water, you've got a batch that has not completed. The degree of incompletion can vary. If the fuel/water separate slowly but are by-and-large complete in a matter of 1-2 minutes and there is no emulsion layer other than the interface, there's no great need to retreat the reaction if the fuel is intended for personal use. If you have an emulsion beyond the thin interface layer the batch needs to be retreated. No amount of light mist- or bubble-washing can change this - unless, of course, you don't care what grade of fuel you run through your engine. The wash test and mechanical washing (motor, prop and shaft) work well no matter what method you use - acid/base or straight base, single or double stage. We use all methods that can be called methods and then some, and that's the case. Some concern has been expressed in the past over the use of air to dry fuel, the concern being fuel oxidation. It's beyond me why those who express such concern (and rightfully so) don't say word one about bubble washing doing the exact same thing. Indeed. For my part, I didn't say anything about air-drying but I did say something about bubble-washing and oxidation: Meeting the German or Austrian standard isn't difficult, but the Euro standard might be, especially if we think bubblewashing is a great idea. Might have to drop bubblewashing, go for simple stirring instead (and making the stuff properly in the first place). Might have to use an additive as well. And, might have to drop soy too. Something tells me the ASTM standard isn't about to adopt these Euro oxidation limits any time soon. Bubble-washing certainly promotes oxidation. I've been sent some lab test results on that, or rather a precis of them. Those folks are no longer doing bubble-washing or air-drying. They use pumps and stirrers to wash. Others express concern with pump- or prop-washed fuel not clearing as quickly as mist- or bubble-washed. There's sound reason for this, all things being equal. Pumps and propellers have the ability of better mixing the fuel and water (atomizing it), bringing both in more frequent contact with each other. This means greater surface to surface contact between water molecules and all suspended/dissolved impurities. Fifteen minutes with a 1/2 hp motor and 4 - 6 prop in a 200 gallon wash tank or bigger will achieve the same thing or more as an all-day-affair with a mist- or bubble-washer.
[biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor
I KNEW I read that PH 7 thing somewhere and I wasn't halucinating; it's in Mike Pelley's method; http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#testbatch ...fill up with the biodiesel to be washed. After a gentle stirring (keep it gentle, you don't want to agitate up soaps) followed by 12- 24 hours of settling, the oil and water will separate, the cleaned oil can be decanted out the valve, leaving the denser soapy water to be drained out the bottom (#5). This process might have to be repeated two or three times to remove close to 100% of soaps. The second and third washings can be done with water alone. After the third washing any remaining water gets removed by re-heating the oil slowly (Figure 8), the water and other impurities sink to bottom. The finished product should be pH 7, checked with litmus paper or with a digital pH tester. Actually it would be a whole whack better if the glyc didn't solidify and I do not measure anything that way, but when I get conflicting reports from people who are in the know and have been at this for awhile I get confused; call me dumb. Bubble wash was the revolution in washing fuel (or so it seems) and now it is better to agitate or use a pump 'cause it gets all the element in better contact ect and shortens the wash times allowing for more settling times, great but that ain't what is posted on the site. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's beyond me why everyone wants to put so much emphasis on whether the glyc cocktail is solid or not, or amber or pink with polka dots. It's been said before that the primary constituent of that layer is soap. It should surprise no one when soap solidifies. That generally means that the oils/fats that comprised the feedstock were a high percentage saturated, such as palm, coconut and tallow. As for the pH of the fuel? That's a non-starter as far as indicating reaction completion. Sure. It might be an indicator that some of the original FFAs were pulled from the feedstock and are now soap in the glyc cocktail layer. But it's not of any value as an indication of a complete reaction. Remove 250 ml of what you think is fuel. Retreat it with the standard rate of caustic and alcohol. Sit back and watch as more glyc drops. The fact that you're getting an emulsion that won't break upon washing should be your first hint that the reaction didn't complete. Shiny and/or beautiful are not indicators of completed reactions. Adjectives of emotional satisfaction, but not reaction completion. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor Well, it must be some other problem then as I let it settle for about 24 hours and at times the glycerine is almost solid when I decant the BD. Maybe it's the oil samples I have been using, perkaps I shall give it a go with another source feed and see what develops (hopefully good BD). The PH I was refering to was not the water but the finished BD being at 7.0 or slightly one way or the other(.2+/-) from neutral. From what I remember that issupposed to be good fuel, but now I aain't too sure due to this emulsion thing. Evrything else seems OK, the titration works well, although the oil never completely disolves to clear in the ISopropyl even though I run a hot water bath under it through the whole process, and stir faithfully all the way and every time I add a drop of the 1% solution. I gotta be doing something not right, but then what is the question ain't it? The NaOH is measured via electronic scale, the iso and methanol are measured via graded lab grade tubes, the methoxide is well disolved via my Grolsch bottle mixer before I add it. I get clear and distinct seperation within 30 minutes with a dark layer on the bottom and a lighter layer on top of that, no other layers. Then I take out 150ml each of unwashed BD and water and shake rattle and roll for about 10 seconds and get emulsion that won't break, even after a day, so if I take the same stuff, gently wash it the first time, then replace the water and wash it again more vigorously and repeat a coupl more times and let settle (air dry) I get a very beautiful shiny product, but now it seems that it ain't necessarily so, so I got to figure what it is that I am not doing right if this is the acid test for BD then I have failed miserably in spite of all the other indicators being good. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, now I am confused. If I were to take the clear water pump for mixing the reaction with and plumb it to circulate the wash, or use another similar pump to do that I end up with better fuel ? No. The fuel will only be as good as you
[biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor
The squeeky wheel gets the grease :) Thanks for the unraveling of my confusion. I gotta do more work on the conversion process, although I did follow everything to the letter; newbie not wanting to screw up and all that, so I need to have a rethink about some of the variables. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello L Maybe you're hallucinating just a little bit. :-) Never mind, chill out, sit back and enjoy the movie! I KNEW I read that PH 7 thing somewhere and I wasn't halucinating; it's in Mike Pelley's method; http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#testbatch ...fill up with the biodiesel to be washed. After a gentle stirring (keep it gentle, you don't want to agitate up soaps) followed by 12- 24 hours of settling, the oil and water will separate, the cleaned oil can be decanted out the valve, leaving the denser soapy water to be drained out the bottom (#5). This process might have to be repeated two or three times to remove close to 100% of soaps. The second and third washings can be done with water alone. After the third washing any remaining water gets removed by re-heating the oil slowly (Figure 8), the water and other impurities sink to bottom. The finished product should be pH 7, checked with litmus paper or with a digital pH tester. If you search around a bit, you'll also find that Mike's presuming your wash-water was pH7 in the first place when it came out of the tap, which might not be the case, and also that it's probably a better idea to measure the pH of the final wash-water than of the biodiesel itself. Whatever, what that pH measurement is telling you is whether the WASH is finished, not whether the biodiesel was completed before you started washing it. So why not put it all in Mike's article? But I've got no business doing that, I didn't write it, he did, I can't just change it. And what he says isn't exactly wrong. It could use a bit more explanation, and the explanation is there, elsewhere in the Biofuels section, and in the obvious place too - see Bubble-washing. Actually it would be a whole whack better if the glyc didn't solidify That is easily arranged. It depends on several factors, but it's much less likely to solidify if you use KOH. Please see: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc and I do not measure anything that way, but when I get conflicting reports from people who are in the know and have been at this for awhile I get confused; call me dumb. You ain't dumb. Conflicting reports? Well, you'll always have those. Bubble wash was the revolution in washing fuel (or so it seems) and now it is better to agitate or use a pump 'cause it gets all the element in better contact ect and shortens the wash times allowing for more settling times, great but that ain't what is posted on the site. The site? The Journey to Forever website is not just an adjunct to this list, there's more to it than that. The Biofuel section of it (not the most important part of it, in our view - important of course, but just a part) has close links with the list, there's a lot of synergy and they're very useful to each other, but they're nonetheless independent entities; there's quite a lot of user overlap, but most of the people who visit the Biofuels section at JtF are not list members. So you shouldn't expect the two always to be in lockstep. Your other message: Well, isn't that special. I get all set up to do the bubble wash as it is the most touted and lauded way of doing things and NOW along comes agitation and pumps. Goes to show that there really isn't any right way of doing it huh? Otherwise all of this would have been CLEARLY explained before in the simple to follow site details of how-to huh? One overly positive factor is that I have not yet completed the work on the processor/wash assembly and can still do a couple of mods to come back into line with the knowns-to-work-best. Please forgive my being a liitle curt, as you all have put so much time and energy into this and other projects that my complaints are not really pertinent, it is just that to have know this BEFORE commencing to put together a BD unit would have been very helpful. At least those coming after will now know huh? Ever changing, ever advancing; I just want to get it right. L. As far as the washing information at JtF and what's being discussed here now are concerned, you've fallen into what at first seems to be a gap between what the list does and what JtF does. But not really. If you look at my earlier post, you'll see this paragraph from a yet earlier post: Meeting the German or Austrian standard isn't difficult, but the Euro standard might be, especially if we think bubblewashing is a great idea. Might have to drop bubblewashing, go for simple stirring instead (and
[biofuel] Re: Ok Since I Stirred the Pot Some...
Gustl, you hit the nail on the head.Don't wait for anyone, expect anything from anyone, and be prepared to be the only Martian on your block :), but keep an eye out for other martians as they are out there and you just might run into one or two or maybe not. Do it because you know it's right, and hold your head up high while at it. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Phil, Friday, 09 July, 2004, 17:45:36, you wrote: PD How about some ideas to get some activism going. Or to address the PD question in more understandable way, how does one become active in PD the biodiesel movement on a local level. I live in Pennsylvania and PD am in contact with a few folks who are making for their own use. PD Who should I be contacting to find out if there is a larger group of PD folks who are being vocal on a local and state level? Any ideas? Perhaps not much of an idea from me but it is all I have. Work on your own, expect nothing from anyone, talk as much as you can to as many people as you are able about biofuels, etc. Talk up the cooperative idea. Hide and watch. My experience has been, unfortunately, is that people are generally too busy to do it. For busy read apathetic or lazy. Be prepared to be patient and work on your own. Do not get discouraged. Sooner or later someone will realize what is what and you will find someone with like interests and values. If you start sounding your horn you might get others sounding theirs back. As far back as the late sixties and early seventies I used to listen to people complaining about the high price and poor quality of food. I got to talking with a bunch of people at lunch at work and told them what my monthly food bill came to. They all wanted to know where I shopped. When it turned out to be a food co-op and they found out that I baked my own bread and soaked my beans, etc. instead of eating from a can they lost interest. Too much effort. But they didn't stop complaining. In general peoples priorities are skewed. Get your biodiesel processor going and contact a local newspaper. Show them what you are doing. Advertise in local newspapers and magazines for like minded people. Talk to people at your workplace or church or whatever clubs or organizations to which you belong. You may hit the jackpot but be prepared to go it alone and to introduce one person at a time to biofuels. Whatever you do don't get discouraged or angry. Neither help. Just remember that if something catastrophic happens it will be people like us who will be sought out to help those who were too busy before. Some folks just have to take a blow to the head before they understand something. Not much help from me I am afraid. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: IBC PROCESSOR
Mark, Try to find some used tractor trailer fuel tanks. They generally hold about 2-300 gals per side and probaby have the right holes at the right places, are designed to hold fuel oil and are not likely to rot out. Or should a smaller version be desired there is always used refer (refridgerated trailer) fuel tanks. Some are small (25gal) and most are larger (50gals) but occasionally they also have 100gal ones that run the sidth of the trailer for long time storage of refridgerated freight. California being such a stickler for details in that area there must be some that can be had cheaply or even free once they know what you want to do with them. Just a thought. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, skillshare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They make good wash tanks for really large processors. AT the Berkeley Biodiesel Coop we also used two of them to store several batches before washing- we'd make several batches and put them into the first IBC, let them settle for a couple of weeks while we filled the second IBC (settling helps us have easier washing as glycerol and soap settles more with a long wait time like this) and then wash. But they don't drain as well as you might like, plus they're not really designed for heat. I have several of these and was using one for oil storage last year- it was in the sun, and it's not all that hot here- and the plastic started to bulge out through the cage a little pretty quickly (ie I don't think that UV was the problem that quickly, it really looked like heat). I had the EMT conduit type cage with relatively large squares. There are other types with smaller wire squares as the cage, or sheet metal support sides instead of a cage made out of tubing like mine had. Dale Scroggins who invented the first water heater reactor we all heard about (the touchless on journeytoforever) is now making fuel in an IBC as he's fueling a bunch of family members. IBC's are the perfect size tank in the US for large batches as they'll let you do a 200 gallons of oil and one 55 gallon drum of methanol batches. But the usual problems of plastics apply- and although I can get many of these for free, I'm planning instead on using a 300 gallon steel diesel storage tank (the cylinder on it's side type of tank) and simply washing in an IBC. The other problem is that large batches like this are more difficult to mix well, so you might need to really work on the quality control. I'm still looking for an appropriate pump to mix mine- there are a few of them at biodieselgear.com and you might be able to find used ones of those on eBay- and I'm also planning on using a static baffle mixer to help get the initial mix to be very even (www.mcmaster.com has several for sale) Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, BEN ROBERTS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the advice on the caustic soda Keith now my next question to everyone is Has anyone successfully made a processor from an IBC (1000litre) . Just an idea I've had since they are cheap and readily available with draining taps already fitted. All thoughts welcome. Best regards Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Benz question...sorry,not biofuel related
A forum for all things Benz by category and year, experts on every aspect of Benz mechanics ect... http://www.benzworld.org/forums/default.asp L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, CHRISTY BLAKELEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DUDE IT'S THE VACCUME PUMP. DO YOUR DOORS LOCK?--- Steven Pfaff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an '83 Benz 300D. Five cylinder IDI. IT WON'T SHUT OFF!!! Help me please, I have been reading the wiring diagram in my Haynes manual but I can't find whatever it is that shut off the fuel supply. I figure I have a solinoid or relay that's stuck in the on position but I can't find anything. Sorry to post on this board but I know there are a few Benz guys in here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steven - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor
Ok, now I am confused. If I were to take the clear water pump for mixing the reaction with and plumb it to circulate the wash, or use another similar pump to do that I end up with better fuel ? Whenever I have done the quality test after having followed the procedure to the letter I always get emultion that takes some time to clarify and sometimes it doesn't at all, but then by gently washing it a few times, each time more vigorous I end up with a nice sparkly amber clear fuel which PH's to 7-7.2 (neutral) so I now don't get it. I don't want to go into full batch production (in a couple weeks) and find out that I am making crappy fuel if I can develop a better way beforehand, so is not the end result the same if the ph and other elements match the descriptions given about making BD at home? I have tried phenolphthaline and it did NOTHING, I tried ph strips and got 7 on everything I tested them on, so again NOTHING, so I am sticking with an electronic PH meter which does seem to work well in the titration stage and for measuring the final PH of the end product. Any (more) thoughts? L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ardis, You will find, after enough experimentation and out of pocket costs, that mechanical agitation in a wash tank is the least expensive, consumes the least energy, requires the least amount of time and leaves you with a finished product as good as or better than mist- or bubble-washing. Plain, pure and simple, mist- and bubble-washing have become institutionalized amongst home-brewers primarily due to the frequency of incomplete reactions that lend to washing problems. In short, they are both methods of treating incomplete reactions with little kid's gloves in the hopes that any resulting emulsion won't be too bad or too noticeable. The fact of the matter is that no wash method should be used on any batch unless it is known for certain that the reaction has completed. Unfortunately, many people fail to guarantee this for themselves, opting to just go ahead and wash it gently. The method of guarantee is extremely simple. Put one ounce of what is believed to be finished fuel in a baby food jar (or similar) with an equal amount of water. Seal the jar and shake violently for 15 seconds. Completed fuel should begin to separate instantly and there should be two distinct layers in less than ~30 seconds. If it takes longer than this or if an emulsion layer forms any thicker than the normal paper thin interface layer between oil and water, you've got a batch that has not completed. The degree of incompletion can vary. If the fuel/water separate slowly but are by-and-large complete in a matter of 1-2 minutes and there is no emulsion layer other than the interface, there's no great need to retreat the reaction if the fuel is intended for personal use. If you have an emulsion beyond the thin interface layer the batch needs to be retreated. No amount of light mist- or bubble-washing can change this - unless, of course, you don't care what grade of fuel you run through your engine. The wash test and mechanical washing (motor, prop and shaft) work well no matter what method you use - acid/base or straight base, single or double stage. Some concern has been expressed in the past over the use of air to dry fuel, the concern being fuel oxidation. It's beyond me why those who express such concern (and rightfully so) don't say word one about bubble washing doing the exact same thing. Others express concern with pump- or prop-washed fuel not clearing as quickly as mist- or bubble-washed. There's sound reason for this, all things being equal. Pumps and propellers have the ability of better mixing the fuel and water (atomizing it), bringing both in more frequent contact with each other. This means greater surface to surface contact between water molecules and all suspended/dissolved impurities. Fifteen minutes with a 1/2 hp motor and 4 - 6 prop in a 200 gallon wash tank or bigger will achieve the same thing or more as an all-day-affair with a mist- or bubble-washer. This allows for hours of washing time to be converted to settling time, in turn hastening the entire wash process. Anyway, when all is said and done and no matter what wash method you choose, you'll best serve your own interests if you make sure that your reaction is complete before attempting any type of wash. All bubble- and mist-washing tend to do is offer brewers the opportunity to wash an incompletely reacted batch with one eye closed and sometimes the other eye squinted. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: ardis streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor Hi,all ' I was wondering if anyone could tell me which way might be best for washing large batches of biodiesel??My
[biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor
Well, it must be some other problem then as I let it settle for about 24 hours and at times the glycerine is almost solid when I decant the BD. Maybe it's the oil samples I have been using, perkaps I shall give it a go with another source feed and see what develops (hopefully good BD). The PH I was refering to was not the water but the finished BD being at 7.0 or slightly one way or the other(.2+/-) from neutral. From what I remember that issupposed to be good fuel, but now I aain't too sure due to this emulsion thing. Evrything else seems OK, the titration works well, although the oil never completely disolves to clear in the ISopropyl even though I run a hot water bath under it through the whole process, and stir faithfully all the way and every time I add a drop of the 1% solution. I gotta be doing something not right, but then what is the question ain't it? The NaOH is measured via electronic scale, the iso and methanol are measured via graded lab grade tubes, the methoxide is well disolved via my Grolsch bottle mixer before I add it. I get clear and distinct seperation within 30 minutes with a dark layer on the bottom and a lighter layer on top of that, no other layers. Then I take out 150ml each of unwashed BD and water and shake rattle and roll for about 10 seconds and get emulsion that won't break, even after a day, so if I take the same stuff, gently wash it the first time, then replace the water and wash it again more vigorously and repeat a coupl more times and let settle (air dry) I get a very beautiful shiny product, but now it seems that it ain't necessarily so, so I got to figure what it is that I am not doing right if this is the acid test for BD then I have failed miserably in spite of all the other indicators being good. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, now I am confused. If I were to take the clear water pump for mixing the reaction with and plumb it to circulate the wash, or use another similar pump to do that I end up with better fuel ? No. The fuel will only be as good as you make it prior to washing (to be read complete or incomplete reaction). What I said was that mechanical agitation can put more fuel/impurities in contact with more water more quickly than other wash methods, in turn lending to a better washed finished product. A vigorous pump that can keep the contents thoroughly mixed can effectively achieve the same thing a prop and motor (which is what a pump essentially is) The problem you're having with the wash test may be due to failing to let the glycerin cocktail settle out fully. You can't rush batch production of biodiesel. Let the reaction settle 12-24 hours before decanting off the fuel and attempting to wash. If you're still getting emulsions, the problem stems from less than complete reactions, not the vigorousness of the agitation. The beauty of the frog in a blender sample wash test is that there are no variables as there are in chemical/pH testing. Either the fuel separates, indicating reaction completion, or it hesitates, or it doesn't separate properly at all. Also, you will find that the pH of your wash water or finished fuel means essentially nothing relative to the simple agitation test. Fresh water can vary in pH from house to house and faucet to faucet - which also means that final wash water can vary as well. You cannot expect that a specific finished pH number indicates a perfectly washed fuel. Chemical/pH testing only adds confusion - unle Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: washing biodiesel in large processor Ok, now I am confused. If I were to take the clear water pump for mixing the reaction with and plumb it to circulate the wash, or use another similar pump to do that I end up with better fuel ? Whenever I have done the quality test after having followed the procedure to the letter I always get emultion that takes some time to clarify and sometimes it doesn't at all, but then by gently washing it a few times, each time more vigorous I end up with a nice sparkly amber clear fuel which PH's to 7-7.2 (neutral) so I now don't get it. I don't want to go into full batch production (in a couple weeks) and find out that I am making crappy fuel if I can develop a better way beforehand, so is not the end result the same if the ph and other elements match the descriptions given about making BD at home? I have tried phenolphthaline and it did NOTHING, I tried ph strips and got 7 on everything I tested them on, so again NOTHING, so I am sticking with an electronic PH meter which does seem to work well in the titration stage and for measuring the final PH of the end product. Any (more) thoughts? L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ardis, You
[biofuel] Re: Double Batching
Hmmm, 160 into 204 doesn't leave much room for the H2O huh? Good catch, and thanks. Not being a whiz at much of anything, I appreciate it when someone comes along and stops me from being my own wost ennemy, so now I need to rethink my double batching thing and perhaps stick to a single 100 liter or 2-60's but that's a whole heaping lot of trouble for just 20 liters more, although a secondary, smaller settling tank would do it, but a second wash tank would to do alot better; amazing what comes out when you put some brain power into it:) So, I can still do two batches but wash them seperately and that way I can do two 100 liter batches and not have to worry about not having enough water to wash properly. I process two batches, one I settle in a seperate tank, the other in the reactor, then fire each into a different wash tank and voila! But then I would need two air pumps to bubble with. I already have two timers, so maybe that is an option. To start though it is going to be one single batch of about 80 liters, settled in the reactor and then sent to the one wash tank I have set up. Start simple and complicate your life after, Ha! Isn't tha the way life is though? You are born with simple needs and simple tastes and as you get the hang of it you complicate the hell out of it for no other reason than to try to get it to be simple. People are REALLY weird. L. PS: I got caught on that methanol question too.But it did give me an opportunity to share the lovely conversion tables I found, and those were the best until someone, please forgive me I don't remember who, posted a downloadable .executable file converter and it is quite interesting to use.Has all the converts you can need too, great tool. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day L G'day; Having pretty much completed my processor and also having found a nice home for it, I have a question for those in the know. I am set up for a single batch lot or with a spare drum I can send tghe finished process to a settling tank and straight away fire up another one. The question is, can I pop one batch on top of the first one even though it may be a couple hours (2-3) between processing the first batch and the second and just have them settle together until I am ready to sent them together to the wash tank? My batches can either be 100 liter sigle or 80 liter when doubled. The wash tank determining the size of double batching. (160 liters plus water in the wash tank is going to about top it off I think). Do I still bubble 4-5 hours, change water and then wash twice more 10 hours each, or do I have to make the wash longer due to increased volume? Ok, that's two questions. So you want half-price or what? :-) I'm not sure I grok your numbers aright - hey, that reminds me, you STILL didn't get that other one right! Sheesh! How much lye per litre of methanol, remember? (Or was it hogsheads?) He'd asked the wrong question anyway. Have to go back and dig it up... Anyway, numbers permitting, I see no reason you can't dump one batch on top of another one, then they'll both have settled out together the next day and proceed as if it's a single batch. That said, if one of the batches is good and the other's iffy, different oil or different something or other, you're perhaps going to be a little hard put to find out just what went wrong and where and why once they're all mixed up. With that in mind, it might be an idea to do small-size test- batches in parallel with each batch, at least at first until you get the hang of doing it that way. You're going to wash 160 litres in a 200-litre tank? Needs some headroom too, doesn't leave much space for the water. Try it and see, maybe it'll be worth it even if it takes more washes and more time. Or make somewhat smaller batches. Thanks for any input. HIH. Best Keith L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: IBC PROCESSOR
Problem with those http://www.joslebel.com/indiv_product_info.php?id=53catid=3 is that they are not completely air tight and the configuration might cause uneven heat distribution which is why most processors are slim rather than wide, as in the 90 liter one at journeytoforever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html or G-Mark's Appleseed processor; http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html However, that said, the IBC's would make for fantastic storage bins. I would be using them myself in my plans for BD except that they are too large to fit in the area I have available, so I will be using 60 liter carboys instead for storage http://www.joslebel.com/indiv_product_info.php?id=83catid=9 Enjoy. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, BEN ROBERTS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the advice on the caustic soda Keith now my next question to everyone is Has anyone successfully made a processor from an IBC (1000litre) . Just an idea I've had since they are cheap and readily available with draining taps already fitted. All thoughts welcome. Best regards Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Preserving the harvest
Tomatoes, unlike most vegetables (they are actually a fruit) increase in nutritional value as you cook them, so if you want a simple solution that will help preserve their taste and nutritional value try freezing UNWASHED overnight in the deep freeze, then remove them and run them under tepid water and the skin just peels right off which you can then toss into the compost. The remaining tomatoes can now be canned quite effectively and you can even add a little oregano in the process for an added taste boost. DO NOT USE BASIL, as it is toxic, as is black pepper. If you want them a little spicy try tossing in a Habanero pepper while canning, butr be careful, the habanero isn't called the world's hottest pepper for nothing. Cayennes will do nicely and are quite a bit milder. You then only use the electricity for the initial freezing part and then you can turn it off, which is economical on the genset, if that is what you are using for producing the electricity. Or, should you want to preserve the initial several hours it takes to get a freezer to cold enough temps, once you get it there, you can turn the power off and on with a timer. A well insulated deep freezer will retain it's cold for a couple days if you don't open it or if it is not stored in an exceptionally warm room, so perhaps a programable electronic timer could be useful. Just a couple pence worth :) As for other vegies, can them. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking yesterday, while I prepare 4 gallons of tomatoes for the freezer, what it the best way to preserve the harvest. For now I am still on the grid and I am mostly alone doing the work so I tend to use electricity. While I only have tomatoes to do this year, the rest of the garden drowned, but most years I have lots of stuff to put up. I know most people can tomatoes, but I don't like peeling them, as this wastes food value. I run mine through the meat grinder, skin and all, then bag them for the freezer. This also retains the fresh tomato taste better. While I do have a hand crank meat grinder, the freezer does require electricity. I wonder if it is best to take this vegetable by vegetable or is there a better solution as to how to decide what is the most Earth/nutrition friendly method of preserving the harvest? Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Saudi Oil Fields in the Crosshairs
http://www.irmep.org/essays/ksa.htm L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE
Far beit for me to wizzle in your corn flakes, BUT, there is documented proof that the US government had contemplated the use of aircraft as bombs a long time ago. http://www.newsmakingnews.com/shockedcloak6,3,02.htm http://www.geraldplessner.com/articles/article.cgi?doc=20040422165204 4th paragraph. While being informed of the second aircraft hitting the WTC Bush showed absolutely NO surprise or shock or anything, he just sat there. By then he, or at least the Secret Service, KNEW that aircraft were hijacked and were beginning to crash into buildings, so the Reganesque I didn't know ploy just doesn't hold water. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lillie, Yes, it is a mystery for anyone with flight experience, even more that our points are not on official investigation and records. It is absolutely clear that they knew that the four planes were hijacked long before any of them had hit anything. Hijacking is also something that should be reported to the president immediately. Since it was no experiences about using planes as projectiles, it is understandable that they could not predict what was going to happen. However, to claim that the chain of awareness was like it is officially described, must be either an enormous incompetence by all involved, or attempts to hide something else, maybe hiding of the presidents incompetence to give instructions. Even for a normal hijacking, the fighters should have been shadowing the planes within minutes after they changed course and have done so before. Who says that this did not happen in this case and maybe the 45 minutes are a scam. This is standard procedures and here we have four break of the procedures at the same time. I do not want to think about conspiracy in the actual events, but for sure it must be conspiracy to save the presidents a-s. Hakan At 18:24 04/07/2004, you wrote: That's right Hakan. There is no doubt due to the flight regulations that ATC knew these were hijackings minutes after the aircraft changed course. One of the regulations specifies to transponder code 7500 (hijack code). Also, for a commercial airliner to change course without explanation spells a hijacking. They never, ever change course without ATC approval! These are instrument flight rules, the aircraft and ATC are in constant contact. The mystery then remains how long did it take for the information to reach the president, why were fighter jets scrambled 45 minutes after? Why did the president even play a lead role, jets should have been scrambled to receive instructions in flight. Washington DC has the most restricted airspace, yet penetration was allowed. I think the possibility that the US let this happen is quite HIGH but also the fat, lazy government bureaucrats have more blame than Bush but there is no responsibility there or anywhere in government, they all remain blameless. The movie is a good blessing if nothing more than to stir up the fat, lazy US citizens into questioning the behavior of their governments. Kerry will not bring any meaningful changes, no president can. It's time for revolt but that is unlikely since even the poor and homeless in the US are comfortable. We'll just have to sit back and watch the whole thing collapse under it's own weight. my 2 cents of opinion, Lillie - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE Greg, You are right in general terms, but to claim that it would be possible that any of the planes could crash where they crashed, because of any health problem, is still an impossibility. I have been sitting in the front seat and have a pilot license, even if it is for small planes. Had my own plane for 5 years, a Cessna 177 Cardinal, fully equipped. My PPL is history now, since I lost my right eye and will not pass medical or be able to do PFT. Remember that the crash sites are far away from where air liners were supposed to be and only that will immediately tell you that it could not be accidents. Air liners are flying under controlled conditions in assigned airways and are not allowed to leave them under almost any condition and certainly not without permission. All the planes in 911 were so far away from the airways, that it must have been deliberate and could not be accidents of any kind. So already the first plane that crashed into the twin tower, told the air control that it was a deliberate attack. I have a night rating and the second time after I got it, I was going from Falun in Sweden to Bromma airport during night. In my flight plan, I was flying under non controlled condition and would pass 1 km outside the control zone of
[biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE
Also, it is true that NORAD had standing orders to intercept all wayward aircraft and that that had been Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) since the 70's rash of skyjackings; The FEMA Intercept Regs about scambling within minutes of an off course airliner: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0506.html BUT it seems that Rummy had the rules changed just before 9-11, so that it took his personal approval to get NORAD to intercept, which had been standard operating procedure (SOP)up to that point. http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen09.html The more one looks at this the more the whole thing stinks. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lillie, Yes, it is a mystery for anyone with flight experience, even more that our points are not on official investigation and records. It is absolutely clear that they knew that the four planes were hijacked long before any of them had hit anything. Hijacking is also something that should be reported to the president immediately. Since it was no experiences about using planes as projectiles, it is understandable that they could not predict what was going to happen. However, to claim that the chain of awareness was like it is officially described, must be either an enormous incompetence by all involved, or attempts to hide something else, maybe hiding of the presidents incompetence to give instructions. Even for a normal hijacking, the fighters should have been shadowing the planes within minutes after they changed course and have done so before. Who says that this did not happen in this case and maybe the 45 minutes are a scam. This is standard procedures and here we have four break of the procedures at the same time. I do not want to think about conspiracy in the actual events, but for sure it must be conspiracy to save the presidents a-s. Hakan At 18:24 04/07/2004, you wrote: That's right Hakan. There is no doubt due to the flight regulations that ATC knew these were hijackings minutes after the aircraft changed course. One of the regulations specifies to transponder code 7500 (hijack code). Also, for a commercial airliner to change course without explanation spells a hijacking. They never, ever change course without ATC approval! These are instrument flight rules, the aircraft and ATC are in constant contact. The mystery then remains how long did it take for the information to reach the president, why were fighter jets scrambled 45 minutes after? Why did the president even play a lead role, jets should have been scrambled to receive instructions in flight. Washington DC has the most restricted airspace, yet penetration was allowed. I think the possibility that the US let this happen is quite HIGH but also the fat, lazy government bureaucrats have more blame than Bush but there is no responsibility there or anywhere in government, they all remain blameless. The movie is a good blessing if nothing more than to stir up the fat, lazy US citizens into questioning the behavior of their governments. Kerry will not bring any meaningful changes, no president can. It's time for revolt but that is unlikely since even the poor and homeless in the US are comfortable. We'll just have to sit back and watch the whole thing collapse under it's own weight. my 2 cents of opinion, Lillie - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE Greg, You are right in general terms, but to claim that it would be possible that any of the planes could crash where they crashed, because of any health problem, is still an impossibility. I have been sitting in the front seat and have a pilot license, even if it is for small planes. Had my own plane for 5 years, a Cessna 177 Cardinal, fully equipped. My PPL is history now, since I lost my right eye and will not pass medical or be able to do PFT. Remember that the crash sites are far away from where air liners were supposed to be and only that will immediately tell you that it could not be accidents. Air liners are flying under controlled conditions in assigned airways and are not allowed to leave them under almost any condition and certainly not without permission. All the planes in 911 were so far away from the airways, that it must have been deliberate and could not be accidents of any kind. So already the first plane that crashed into the twin tower, told the air control that it was a deliberate attack. I have a night rating and the second time after I got it, I was going from Falun in Sweden to Bromma airport during night. In my flight plan, I was flying under non controlled condition and would pass 1 km outside the control zone of Arlanda airport ,
[biofuel] Double Batching
G'day; Having pretty much completed my processor and also having found a nice home for it, I have a question for those in the know. I am set up for a single batch lot or with a spare drum I can send tghe finished process to a settling tank and straight away fire up another one. The question is, can I pop one batch on top of the first one even though it may be a couple hours (2-3) between processing the first batch and the second and just have them settle together until I am ready to sent them together to the wash tank? My batches can either be 100 liter sigle or 80 liter when doubled. The wash tank determining the size of double batching. (160 liters plus water in the wash tank is going to about top it off I think). Do I still bubble 4-5 hours, change water and then wash twice more 10 hours each, or do I have to make the wash longer due to increased volume? Ok, that's two questions. Thanks for any input. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: A quick question!
Good day Colin, and welcome to the list. You will find all the information you need to make BD in small or large quantities at http://www.journeytoforever.org , the site attached to this list. There are numerous very competent people here that can help you with any further questions you will have along the way, so once you have studied the material at JTF and have any questions you can post them here and someone will get back to you with an answer. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Colin Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys, I'm new to this group and, as you might imagine, to the whole process of making Biodiesel! I'm planning on creating this fuel to benefit the educational facilities of our community and to promote alternative fuel usage in the community, thus creating a community that is more self-sufficient and environmentally conscious. However, the process of making Biodiesel is still confusing to me (not so much the chemical process, as much as what I need for hardware and how I would set it up). Any notes or bits of advice you could pass along to me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys! People are like rugs: Hang them out a window and shake them a couple of times, and you'll be surprised how much dirt comes out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: How's Come Berkely is the Hot Bed of Forward Thinking.
Well Phil, don't feel too too left out, or too singled out either. When I went around getting contacts for my soon to be BD production and I asked if I could have some of their waste oil it was as though the concept was not just foreign but downright alien. They did authorise me to help myself whenever I wanted though and that makes me happy. Sooner or later someone is going to clue in to the idea that there's money to be made form the BD crowd in selling WVO instead of them paying to have it carted off, so promotion of a reuseable resource (WVO) is laudable but it is also a two edged sword that could come back and bite us on the butt as well, capitalists being what they are (anything for a buck). Although for the moment we are at the spearhead of something good for all concerned and unless someone decides to fix what ain't broke we shall continue and thrive in the areas of renewable and reuseable energy, so plug on mon ami and smile as they wonder where the smell of fries is comming from :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Phil Dodd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sitting here in my south-central pennsylvania funk lamenting the fact that when I talk biodiesel I am looked at like I have 2 heads. Though there is a couple of seminars coming to the Washington D.C. area next week and again in september. Are there any folks out here in the hinterlands of the Mid-Atlantic states that are actually making, using and spreading the word? Help save me from this desert of forward thinking before my mind starts to atrophy here in the land of the closed mind. Phil Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Well, Todd, it seems that some folks don't understand, or don't want to understand, that if a house is built on silt and quicksand it will soon crumble. Duh. So it is apparent that any information used as foundation for an argument or testative point and that that foundation information is flawed then it only stands to reason that anything emminating from that flawed foundational work will in itself also be flawed. One cannot gat figs from a cherry tree no matter how hard one tries, and that is a simple and obvious fact to all who care to not walk about with their eyes wide shut. L. Have a nice day. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You moved so quickly to find error with the sources that you completely disregarded the argument itself. Nah, nah, nah, nah homey. If the foundation is rotten the roof quickly collapses. Again, there is no valid argument than can be constructed on faulty data. You can try all you like, but all you'll end up doing is spending a lifetime shoring up walls and buttressing the ceilings to keep everything from caving in on you. Try firm ground for a change. It will save you and everyone boatloads of effort and grief. Happy Happy... Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Randall Sanborn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 You moved so quickly to find error with the sources that you completely disregarded the argument itself. I'll readily admit that there are some seriously flawed pieces on that site, but if you look through the two examples I mentioned you'll see a few perfect examples of disinformation. The pictures were the important part on those specific pages and for the most part the write up is spot on. I'll give Moore credit, he is one of the best I've seen at using facts to lie. wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. They aren't falsehoods, if you look at the quote I dropped in from Michael Moore he actually admitted to at least one of those incidents and the rest are very well documented. He's doesn't make documentaries, he makes political propaganda. I don't have a problem with political propaganda even, just as long as its honest and presented as such. He lies, and presents his work as documentary which it isn't. I'm sitting here reading numerous posts of people saying this is the best thing they've seen, etc, and I'd simply like them to at the very least exercise a little more judgment. Randall Sanborn On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:10, Appal Energy wrote: Mr. Sanborn, Let's try a little honesty for a moment. I know that it might pain you. But give it a go just once. First of all, yes, you're correct. I do make point of discredit[ing] the source[s], especially when the sources you use are ripe with error. Second, when a person utilizes sources chucked full of error and disinformation as their foundation for argument, there is essentially no argument and no point or purpose in going 'round and 'round the mulberry bush as you would apparently like effect. Third, based upon the sources that you draw your information from, it is rather apparent that you're either an aspiring disinformatinalist or someone who siimply enjoys creating an atmosphere of argument. Fourth, in light of that, I'm afraid that you presume far too much in your expectancy that everyone (or anyone) drop everything that they're doing, wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. To what end? Certainly not in search of any truth. Or if so, only the truth as you care to interpret it. Do you really think that a book such as Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars that tell them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right would have made it out of the batter's box if it was as full of liable and untruths as your sources claim? And in all honesty, anyone who deliberately assesses judgement on a present issue and/or film based upon an unrelated past issue is someone who is far more set upon a distorted conclusion than upon any conclusion predicated upon reality. Come to think of it, that practice is exactly what you're accusing another of. One can only presume, based upon your operating on such a double standard, that the rules that you would care to apply to others simply don't apply to you? Perahaps now you can see why you are so easily discounted? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday,
[biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE
The most daming piece of evidence in the reading-about-goats video is, as was pointed out on an alternative news site, the fact that the Secret Service did NOTHING. Never mind what Bush's twisted sense of what the media have passed off as christianity is, it is the express raison-d'etre of the Secret Service to see to the President's security at ALL times and with the amount of unknowns when the planes started crashing into the WTC should have been more than enough for them to spring into action and take him out of there as his agenda was well knopwn at least 24 hrs in advance so if terrorists were to be giving it the end-all the Secret Service had no way of knowing this as should have acted IMMEDIATELY in getting him out of there protestations be damned, and little kids' sensitivities be damned as well. IT IS THEIR JOB ! Their ONLY job, at that. So, when Bush just sat there, even after Andrew Card told him of a plane crashing he was not alarmed, nor were the Secret Service alarmed. Andrew Card SHOULD have waited for a responswe from Bush, as he was annoucing a terrorist attack on America and Bush,as commander in chief, should have been expected to give some sort of directions just before the SS wisked him away to a place unknown, but none of this took place, insteead he just sat there with no more than a passive look as if being given a progress report. His statement about having seen the first plane crash is false as NO ONE had broadcast that, the only photo broadcast at that point was the second tower being hit. Card didn't wait for an answer, but stepped back after making the annoucement; that is weird. The President continuing to read about goats after learning that the country was under attack; that is weird. The Secret Service NOT forcibly dragging Bush off to a secure place is not weird, it is danming. Everybody didn't react as they should have. Remember when Regan was shot? What happened? A whack of SS grabbed him and physically shoved him in a car and they were gone in a matter of seconds while the others were apprehending the shooter. How did the Secret Service know that Booker elementary wasn't a traget ? They, by this time, did know the WTC were hit, and the President's agenda was public knowledge, so why not physically grab him and drag him off, as that is what they are SUPPOSED to do in a crisis like that? Why is the only piece of physical evidence found that links Arabs are paper passports found on the street on NYC that supposedly survived the crashes even though the planes themselves and the buildings were completely destroyed, and who Robert Mueller, head of the FBI has even admitted to the passports being fakes, professional forgeries? Why are several of the identified terrorists still alive today when they were supposedly flying a suicide plane into a building ? We know who we are supposed to blame, but there really isn't any real evidence that points in that direction, but we have forged passports and a foreign and domestic controlled media who have been working overtime to see to it that those nasty Arabs are the ones that get the finger pointed at them though. Why did the Bush admin do everything posible to put a monkey wrench into the investigation of 9-11? You would think that the biggest crime of the century would warrent the White HOuse's undevided attention and cooperation until ALL the FACTS were clearly out in the open, but instead we have all the physical evidence removed in a manner of days and shipped off overseas to get converted into scrap metal as soon as possible. That steel and iron from the WTC was crime scene evidence, why was it removed and shipped out of country ? Maybe someone might have found traces of thermite? Why did the WTC come down simetrically into their respective footprints and not fall over if the building was poorly supported by truces as the official FEMA report says? Had truces suported the floors then the tops that were hit would've fallen over like a chopped down tree, but the tops followed everything right into the footprints, just like WTC 7 which wasn't hit at all and that Larry Silverstein (the new owner of the WTC)later admitted was pulled, a term used meaning controlled demolition? Why did all three buildings come down in exactly the same manner when one was pulled and the others suffered diesel fires only in the upper floors? Ect, ect, ect... There are hundreds if not thousands of sites that have structural and logistical analysis of the official story and the one thing they all agree on is that the official story stinks and is not plausible. I am Christian and there is no way that anyone who reads Biblical prophecy, and I have extensively, can conclude anything closely resembling the madness of king George. This man is about as Christian as Judas Iscariot (the traitor) was a disciple. Calling yourself something doesn't of you that make. Jesus said by their fruits ye
[biofuel] Re: THE HOT MOVIE
Wrong! The plane that Bush was told about was the SECOND plane, and not the first, so by then it was a known that the country was under attack. The aircraft had been off course for over an hour at this point and it is ONLY the President who can give a shoot down order, so he was at the very least aware that planes had been hijacked within the US at this point. It was no surprise as witnessed by his non-reaction. At the poing when Andrew Card told him about the second plane hitting the WTC it was a know fact that at least three planes were off course and that they had been hijacked. The hole in the donut is, why didn't the Secret Service DO anything? As a matter of perecautionary security they should have been all over Bush and getting him out of a known place he would be in. When the first plane hit it was assumed it was a terrible accident as that is the auto reaction it would draw with most thinking people who have a modicum of morality, but by the time plane two hit that theory was long gone and it was the second plane Bush was told about not the first, so surprise or accident was NOT an option the SS could afford at this poing but they did NOTHING, ergo, it weren't a surprise. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 17:43 Subject: Re: [biofuel] THE HOT MOVIE Richard, Don't you think that there is something problematic with a president who sits for 7 minutes and continues to read about goats to children when bombs (or airplanes) are exploding within his country? What if those two planes had only been the first of an entire wave? Think that those wasted seven minutes could have been used in a more efficient manner? Hell. He had no way of knowing that they weren't the beginning of the end of the world. Let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. It wasn't until he was finally on they back in Air Force One that there was confirmation that it was a deliberate attack, and not an accident as most of the country thought it was. How was he to know at the time he was reading to the children, that it was an attack upon the country, when he was first told that an A large aircraft has crashed into on of the World trade towers . If it was me, and I was told those words, I would have finished reading to the kids, then left ASAP to cover the accident from the White House. As it was his visit to the school was to be at least 1/2 an hour longer, and some sources have said that it was supposed to be a full hour longer. Remember he was in Air Force One, and flying back to Washington D.C. ( not when he was reading to the kids ), when they finally figured out it was a terrorist attack and that is why it was diverted and he spent all that time in a secret location. Remember, everyone first thought it was a freak, but, terrible accident, and under those conditions, I can understand, why he continued to read to the kids, to show the children some normalcy, and not scare the kids, by leaving in a huff, in the middle of a book he was reading. I would have done the same. Yes hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, conditions, and with the best information everyone had, everyone was operating was operating the best they could.Sure, had he 20 minutes of information or warning, that the world trade center, was the target, of mad men, at the controls of a airliners, then yes, he would have moved allot faster, but given the information he had, I don't blame him one bit for doing what he did. Like I said before, given the same information, about it being an accident, I would have done the same. Come to think of it, I did much the same, my sister called and told me about the accident, and it was another 5-10 minutes before I finished what I was doing, and then got around to turning on the TV. Greg H. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Perhaps my post # 36427 can shed some light of it. :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall, I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. That goes ditto for me as well, especially when folks such as yourself point an entire list to spin sights dedicated solely to fragging those who present factual informatioin or reasonably supported perspectives contrary to the conservative party line. I was appreciably amused with the pro-Bill Oh-Really? bits found at one of your sources. Forget Oh-Really's snotty mouth and bad manners. That sight conjours up distortions for every deceipt that he's practiced on the public for decades. And sadly, as long as he's got people similar to yourself defending him he'll never have to speak truthfully. Must be nice. Doubtful that you're getting paid for your efforts either. What a shamI mean shame. Again, thanks for the chuckles. I have this sneakin' suspicion that you have a few more of these gems up your sleeve just itchin' to slip out. Ohone other thing. Relative to your poker skills, or in this case your lack thereof, there's this little beaut... A large number of civilians died in Iraq during the war and occupation. I'm willing to bet that a very large portion of those deaths were not inflicted by Americans though. Me thinks that you might want to get a grip on the numbers before you initiate your practices of dispersion, much less start laying money down on your peculiar beliefs. Ten to twelve thousand civilian deaths during the initial weeks of the invasion If the bombs hadn't dropped they wouldn't be dead, now would they? Those were American/Coalition bombs, now weren't they? And they were dropped because America's favourite antagonist decided to show everyone his full depth and breadth of ineptitude. But it's their fault that they're dead, huh? So how about quantifying what you call a very large portion? Go ahead, take your time. But when you're finished, I'll give you 10:1 odds that you're completely in error. But hell, it's your money - bet what you want. Seems to me that you've got a sad knack of placing responsibility in places where it doesn't belong. Doesn't speak well for your powers of discernment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. Firstly, the gun from the bank. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, 48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting
[biofuel] Problem w/ F 911
In spite of all the positive reviews about Farenheit 911, there is one or two major flaws in it. First off, the positive is that it exposes the Bush regime and is any-war, although it points tghe finger at Saudi as the main culprits behind 9-11, and there is NO verifiable evidence to make that assumption. The danger here is that in toeing the official story line Michael Moore has set up Saudi as the next sucker for the ficticious war on terror, either willingly or unwitingly, so when the next fake terror happens it won't take much for the American public, having been prepared via F911, to fault Saudi and then that opens the door for the next oil grab. Also the fact that there is evidence of a foreign government's involvement in 9-11 but that information has been classified by the Bushies to protect their handlers has gone completely ignored. F911 is a mixed bag at best. Iy condemns an unjust war, and that is good. It sets up Saudi for the next part of the war on terror as soon as those responsible for 9-11 commit another act of mass murder and make sure there are more fake passports, like the first time, that lead stright to who they want to see, and thatnks to Mr Moore that path will lead to Saudi. There is no factual evidence that Saudi had anything whatsoever to do with 9-11. Robert Muller of the FBI stated publicly that the pristine passports (while the planes disintegrated) found on the streets of NYC after the towers fell were professional forgeries, so we know who we are SUPPOSED to blame but there isn't any real hard evidence to actually back up the allegation. F911 is a step, but it leaves wide gapping holes that the spin doctors can drive trucks through come the next fake terror attack. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More on Weights and Measures
Being 50 this year and having only learned the British imperial measurement system at school it was a challenge when I first shipped over to Australia where the metric system was already in place (at home they were just starting to convert), so I had to learn it or run around in the dark. Everything is divisible by ten is the rule, or so I was told, and it seems to work well that way. Then when I came to N.America after several years and I was then faced with learning a whole new system of weights and measures, the US system, based on well, the US. So I learned that, sort of. When I think of a US gal I automatically think 3.785 liters and then coordiante it to just over 3/4 of an imperial gal to get the right idea. Yup,the US gal is a USquart shy of the imperial galon. Sure is one heaping pile of numbers huh? Metric evens it all out. Why can't everyone use pounds, inches and galons? I believe was the original question. It's simple, EVERYONE uses metric, it is ONLY the US that doesn't. So why does the entire planet have to convert to US standards (and of late those are of toilet quality) when the US won't assimilate into the world community ? Going it alone, slapping the world in the face, with their British lap dog in Iraq didn't help foster any closing of relations now did it? So Americans can either learn the metric system and know what the rest of the planet is talking about or not and stay ignorant (in the educational sense) inside their own superior nation. (yes, American arrogance has run short on the patience meter of late) L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Biodiesel Performance
I think you will find Marko, that the best method isone that you feek comfortable with, but as far as getting a good, reliable education on how to go about it journeytoforever.org's site is there just for that, as well as this list. Many people, over a period of time, have put together their experiences, most from trial and error, into what is a comprehensive and easy tofollow how-to in making biodiesel; no shortcuts, no hurry- ups, just plain good methodology that ensures a quality end product that will not harm but will rather benefit your engine. There are links at the bottom of every post, please avail yourself of their contant. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Marko Lavrencic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anybody been using a home-made bio-diesel for a long time (several years) and noticed any negative changes in engine performance? I'm just starting with my bio-diesel production and I would like to know which method is best for making home-made bio-diesel and which side effects are connected with a particular method. Sincerely, Marko [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Methanol purification
Methanol comes with numerous names attached.Perhpas looking for one of the other synonyms may yield better results. http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.html Under General is the list of all the synonyms that methanol can be found under. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Teoman, welcome Hi, im a beginner in biodiesel and have some questions. I am at the stage where im checking feasability and availability of materials. The methanol i have found is very expensive about 4.68 euros + tax per liter (99.5) which makes biodiesel more expensive than normal diesel. There is a cheaper from purity form 90 to 95 which is much cheaper about 1.60 usd per liter. How can i purify that? And what does not pure mean exactly? That it has water in it? I am supposing that since it has water in it it ruins the lye. Or does it have some other substances in it? Is this methanol any good to me? Can you find out the exact composition? What exactly is in it? It could be methylated spirits, for instance, which is not methanol, or not mostly, and doesn't work for making biodiesel. Best wishes Keith Or should i look elsewhere Thanks Teoman Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Disinfecting PC's
G'day; Although no computer is 100% secure while connected to the information highway, which was designed to allow FREE FLOW of information until the anti-free-flow people got involved, it is possible to reduce the risks. In the case of Windows which is stil the most widely used, a good anti-virus/anti-hacking program with a decent firewall such as Norton Internet Security from Symantec combined with Lavasoft's Ad- Aware 6.0 (freeware) http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html? part=69274subj=dlpagetag=button and SpyBot Search and Destroy (freeware) http://www.safer-networking.org/ The later two getting rid of dropped tracking cookies and undesireable spy programs and the Norton for first line defence. Now if your machine is being ISP'd by a responsible provider it will be doubly protected. Trend Micro also has an free on-line scan for viruses at their site called House Call.http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ Clean 'em up and head 'em out ! L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coming Soon
Having come to nearing the completion of my processor, based upon G- Mark's Fumeless design, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html Sean Park's Standpipe Wash Tank http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) and a couple of personal mods all enclosed in a cabinet on casters similar to Dale Scoggins design http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html except mine uses a seperate wash tank still enclosed in the cabinet with storage space under the processing area for pails and the pre- heat tank. Today I received very good news; I now have confirmation of a new home for my setup, an independant free standing cabana sort of building that already has electricity and water (it's a pump house) that I can use at will thanks to the organic farmer I have been dealing with. I met a guy from reap-canada.com, Roger Samson, who does research into energy solutions for third world countries, told me that as soon as I am ready that he will get a diesel vehicle to test the BD I make. I told him that I didn't have a permit to sell it but that I could be hired to manage a batch or two for him :). Another couple of weeks and the first BD should be coming out of theory land an into the real world. I have been successful with test batches and understand titration so now all that is left is some hands on experience at actually making the stuff and giving my Benz a present. I am also thinking now that I have more space (the original was designed for limited space considerations) of incorporating a seperate settling tank as used in the 90 litre processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html which will effectively turn my 100 litre processor into a 200 liter processor, having to make two batches instead of just one and settling both at the same time. I can retain the same wash tank as it a poly tank that can easily handle the volume. This week was also very encouraging. I finally was able to locate the proper type of 20 liter carboys with threaded caps as well as all the drums/pails ect... that I can use and all close to home too. I love it when a plan comes together, to coin a phrase. Once again, I would like to thank Keith, Todd, G-Mark and many others who have contributed in sharing their invaluable experience and ideas into making this project a reality, I REALLY could not have fathomed such a thing without your help, and the ripple effect is already being felt and I have not even got it going yet. I would like more info on using BD as a gas-car additive should anyone care to share more on that. I got me tis idea that could work out pretty well in that department reducing harmful emissions for many. thanks again. L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Sacred Animal and biofuel group
You could try sanctimonious idols :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gustl, Pan and all You're right Gustl, English in a global forum is a minefield, and the language translation sites don't help much. Anyway, you're not the only one - I used the term sacred cows the other day and then wished I hadn't, for just this reason. I told someone I didn't agree with him because he had too many of them. Finding the message now the search turned up five other instances, all in mainstream news articles I'd posted previously. It's common English usage. But that doesn't make it acceptable, certainly not here, for the reasons you state. I was trying to find an alternative expression and couldn't. Taboos doesn't work very well, somewhat different meaning (and for all I know it might be offensive to Polynesians). Journalists say without fear or favour, also doesn't work so well, eh? I don't know the original context of the expression sacred cow - in India obviously, colonial I suppose, first used by British colonials I'd guess, and I'd also guess it was used patronisingly. Anyway, Pan presents a possible answer - unsacred cows! So change it to false sacred cows, does that work? I think it would work in your original message Gustl, and when I used it. What do English-speaking Indians say when they want to refer to a subject one does not or is not allowed to discuss openly (but should)? Anyway, Pan, I don't think you and Gustl have anything to disagree about in these two messages of yours, you should make it 100%. (And thankyou very much, but you're much too kind to me, once again you make me blush.) Excellent messages, I really enjoyed them, bravo to you both. Biofuel for the mind, the biodiversity of the list membership, great! More, this is not at all a bad time to be examining just what it is that we're all doing here and how we can best move forward together. Pan's idea of a big ecological biofuel network is the sort of framework we need, and indeed the list has developed along those lines. Within such a framework we can do the subject full justice, and I don't see any conflict with the interests of members who aren't concerned with ecology or environment but only want to know how to make biodiesel for their motor. The archives proves that there is no such conflict, there's room for both, and indeed they're complementary. Years ago, when this question of What's all this off-topic political [EMAIL PROTECTED] have to do with biofuels? first came up, it emerged that a large portion of the membership valued such discussions and thought it had a great deal to do with biofuels. So it was decided not to limit the discussions - limiting it would satisfy a very small minority at the expense of the rest, while not limiting it would deprive nobody, and that's been the policy since then. Maybe we could take this further now, redefine it and improve on it, to make the list a better and more effective tool to help all the different interests here achieve their goals, and the overall goals of the list as a whole. Pan, I agree with just about everything you say - every animal sacred sustainable, yes indeed, I've just said something like that to Robert, only unfortunately it came out in pseudo-Shakespearean or something (Robert knows it very well anyway, he doesn't need me to tell him so, and Gustl also knows it very well). It is relevant to biofuels issues - you give one example of how it's relevant, and there are many others. Biofuels has a very wide context. Part of that context is energy in general, and it's a little difficult to find a more political issue than energy. And so people of different (biodiverse!) backgrounds will disagree. Again, it's hard to understand energy issues without a good understanding of the very complex situation(s) in the Middle East, where there's so much overlap between energy issues, political and geopolitical issues, and, yes, religious issues. Similarly, the upcoming election in the US is crucial to future energy use and to progress with biofuels, but it's fraught with both politics and religion. If we keep clear of all this we'll end up with at best a superficial view that won't serve us well, at worst with downright wrong views that might do more harm than good. If we don't keep clear of it we have not only disagreement but furious arguments, anger, resentment, accusations and worse. (Much worse!) Somehow we have to steer a course through all this towards, hopefully, some clarity on the other side. So far we seem to have succeeded, and survived somehow. We don't have much choice Pan. If the list is to have the focus you describe, which I think most of us here probably agree with (I certainly do), then we just have to take whatever comes our way and deal with it as
[biofuel] Re: List Discussions As Biofuels
Ah, but Robert (French accent required), you do the subject so much justice. Indeed, how does one seperate the motivating power of one's beliefs into a mere philosophy or obscure opinion? Most of the world's great religious beliefs teach caring for others as for one's self, and this overflows onto the overall care for the world around us. When afflicted by hubris and/or narcissism the person is much to much involved with his/her own little restricted, as-it-relates-to- me world, to actually take time away from their busy schedule (of self importance) to actually care about anyone or anything else. We may not be able to stop all the evil in the world, although we can certainly do our part to make our corner of it a little more pleasant for ourselves and those who surround us. Big fires all require a small spark to get going.(the natural kind anyway, mushroon clouds are another subject) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Friends, There is sometimes a comment on the list, usually from a newcomer, that this is a biofuel list and that we ought to be discussing biofuels rather than politics or religion or whatever. I've been pulling a lot of what Keith calls deep rooting herbs in my garden lately. There is very little lawn on my property, as a ratio of land to grass, so I spend a fair amount of my free time working with plants. I don't use chemical sprays. The pests that are currently trying to kill my cherry tree get a soap and water bath instead. I hose the leaves vigorously, then douse them in soapy water. I watch my trees closely and try to interpret what they need from their condition. I am a terrible gardener at present, but I'm learning, and fortunately, plants are remarkably patient. My trees provide some of the fuel that sustains life for me and my children, so I try to be careful about how my trees get treated. There's a religious reason for this. I could easily do what everyone else in the neighborhood does and simply kill all the parasites, molds, rots and other nasty afflictions with some chemical concoction that would also kill me if I ingested enough of it. But I'm a devout Christian. I believe that God made man to manage the earth and care for it. Like any administrator, I'm accountable for the welfare of everything under my control. How can I separate religious conviction from my behavior? When people ask me why I bother with a garden, I tell them that it puts me in touch with my God ordained destiny and reminds me of my position in the order of all created things. Growing a garden is also a political act. The vegetables sprouting in my planter boxes are likely more expensive than those I can buy from the supermarket, if I factor my time into the equation. Many of the younger people in my neighborhood believe they are too busy to tend a garden. (But the old folk are nearly unanimous in their approval!) The time I spend watering and removing those deep rooting herbs from the soil by hand is a political statement that everyone driving by should recognize: I repudiate the principle of bringing food in from afar that I can grow myself. I might be able to buy my lettuce, conveniently grown, harvested, transported and packaged for my benefit in any season, but I have to accept that there is a significant energy cost to doing so. So, I pull my weeds and note, out of the corner of my eye, the disapproving glances flung in my direction by people who think I'm an eccentric fool. (Did you see all that manure Robert unloaded the other day? Hasn't he ever heard of Miracle Grow?) I hear what they say, but I refuse to spray my property. I WILL learn how to be a gardener one day; even though my hands throb with arthritis and my knees ache from all the bending. If the complainers were hungry, I would share my fruit and salad with them. I've read a holy book that advises me to maintain such an attitude toward other people, and if those words have no influence on my thinking, there is no power in them. But the scriptures DO influence my thinking. As a result, working in my garden is a powerful religious AND political act. snip The sustenance of this list has been the love of ones fellow human beings, the ethic of care and the desire to serve others. The underlying commonality of this list is not the desire to make biofuels and put more money in the pocketbook but the humanity of the list members. This is not a list to aid individuals but a list of cooperation to aid everyone, particularly those of little means. It also, and in no lesser manner I think, aids the planet on which we live remain healthier. This is why I like it here. snip
