Re: [Talk-transit] What's going on with Öpnvkarte ?
On 11/12/2010 08:45 PM, Michael von Glasow wrote: Hello list, For those of you who don't already know me from other lists I participate in, my name is Michael and, among others, I map public transportation in Milan. Up to now I have relied on Öpnvkarte (aka openbusmap.org) for representing bus, tram and other routes. However, as some of you may have noticed, the site appears somewhat deserted - the last update is reportedly from early September (without specifying a date; the site used to be updated multiple times a week with a precise date on the main page) and tiles in the higher zoom levels are broken. Does anybody know what's going on? I sincerely hope the project has not been abandoned and the outage is only temporary... up to now, this has been the definitive site for public transportation mapping, and I'd be really sad to see it go... Michael In the meantime, I have found a posting by Melchior Moos, the maintainer of Öpnvkarte, to talk-de (in German). Basically, the load has gotten too much for his server to handle, and at the moment he does not have the time to fix it. So we'll have to wait and see... ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] What's going on with Öpnvkarte ?
Hi all, a backgrounder.. The raw data is available from gtfs (i think) which holds the 'official' data on a central holding place. The route relations that are currently in osm are a mix of both, hand-drawn (manually attached to osm ways and nodes) and imported with manual tweeking. The licence on the manual tweeking is of ccBYsa, where the raw data is public domain or ccBY. So edits in osm cant go back to the official source. Ideally, the gtfs data should be listed as a separate layer and hosted on geocommons.com as eact dataset source can be it's own layer. Ideally, potlatch2 can show this data as a background .shp file so it can be used to enhance osm. And to give back to each transit authority, it needs to be done on an individual basis. (or on a separate combined map with a different licence) FYI, cheers, sam On 11/16/10, Michael von Glasow mich...@vonglasow.com wrote: On 11/12/2010 08:45 PM, Michael von Glasow wrote: Hello list, For those of you who don't already know me from other lists I participate in, my name is Michael and, among others, I map public transportation in Milan. Up to now I have relied on Öpnvkarte (aka openbusmap.org) for representing bus, tram and other routes. However, as some of you may have noticed, the site appears somewhat deserted - the last update is reportedly from early September (without specifying a date; the site used to be updated multiple times a week with a precise date on the main page) and tiles in the higher zoom levels are broken. Does anybody know what's going on? I sincerely hope the project has not been abandoned and the outage is only temporary... up to now, this has been the definitive site for public transportation mapping, and I'd be really sad to see it go... Michael In the meantime, I have found a posting by Melchior Moos, the maintainer of Öpnvkarte, to talk-de (in German). Basically, the load has gotten too much for his server to handle, and at the moment he does not have the time to fix it. So we'll have to wait and see... ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [talk-ph] Interesting changeset: Should we coordinate with DOH?
I suspect the following are in the same workshop DOH training: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6389845 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6389848 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6389900 If NEC stands for: - National Engineering Center of UP Diliman, I'm not surprised that the Geodetic Engineering Department is involved here. - National Epidemiology Center which is closely linked to RITM, then they could be some of the people involved in the Bohol data import. In any case, I am happy that gov.ph are getting more involved in our project. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Check out this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6389149 The comment is DOH training GPS activity. The attribution is DOH GIS training group. And the editor used (for a brand new account) is: JOSM/1.5 (3592 en) While the data added (all POIs) are not really DOH-specific and seems to be an exercise, maybe we need to talk to DOH (Region 3)? Eugene ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
[follow-ups to legal-talk, where this thread really should have started] Kevin Peat wrote: Personally I don't care if the current license is weak as most organisations will respect its spirit and if a few don't who cares, it doesn't devalue our efforts one cent. I can't see how changing to an unproven license can possibly be worth fragmenting the project. There'll be some fragmentation whatever happens. I've no doubt that, as you suggest, some people will leave if OSM moves to ODbL. Conversely, if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA then I'd leave as would several others. There is no let's just carry on as at present option. Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
But isn't the bit that's causing the bulk of the discussion a limited part of the CTs, not ODbL per se? It strikes me as two issues - changing to ODbL and, separately, the inclusion of a clause in the CTs allowing a future unspecified relicensing by the OSMF. The two aren't, necessarily, interlinked. I haven't heard any fundamental objection to moving to ODbL, but lots of objections to the CTs. Unfortunately the two seem to be being treated as one. Kevin --Original Message-- From: Richard Fairhurst Sender: legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: t...@openstreetmap.org Cc: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org ReplyTo: Licensing and other legal discussions. Sent: 16 Nov 2010 10:45 Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change [follow-ups to legal-talk, where this thread really should have started] Kevin Peat wrote: Personally I don't care if the current license is weak as most organisations will respect its spirit and if a few don't who cares, it doesn't devalue our efforts one cent. I can't see how changing to an unproven license can possibly be worth fragmenting the project. There'll be some fragmentation whatever happens. I've no doubt that, as you suggest, some people will leave if OSM moves to ODbL. Conversely, if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA then I'd leave as would several others. There is no let's just carry on as at present option. Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change
Kevin Peat wrote: But isn't the bit that's causing the bulk of the discussion a limited part of the CTs, not ODbL per se? For most people, yes, though there are a few people for whom ODbL per se is unpalatable (I think 80n is one, but he can correct me if I'm wrong). Personally I don't have an opinion either way on the CTs but would be very, very disappointed if an adverse reaction to the CTs meant we lost ODbL. The 1.2 revision of the CTs does, however, seem to be moving in the right direction. LWG are good guys and they do listen. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-OSM-legal-talk-talk-New-site-about-the-license-change-tp5743322p5743486.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODBL Coverage
On 16/11/10 12:29, Craig Loftus wrote: I don't really want to raise the issue again but I found the new map of ODBL coverage (http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/) interesting as it literally highlights the effect the new license and terms will have on map coverage in the UK. No it doesn't. It highlights what might happen if we went ahead now without approaching anybody and asking them to relicense. It says absolutely nothing about what the map might look like after we have approached contributors and asked them to relicense. Tom The town I currently map in, Oxford, would be wiped off the ODBL map, with the exception of a few minor roads. Interestingly, looking at those minor roads, they are only there because a user as incorrectly accepted the new contributor terms (they have made use of OS material). Does any one have an objective update on how the OS issue stands with regard to the new CTs? Now you're assuming that the CTs are not compatible with OpenData, a question which has yet to be resolved - some people believe that they are compatible. Now please, take the legal debates back to legal-talk and stop trying to move them around. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODBL Coverage
On 11/16/2010 12:39 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: On 16/11/10 12:29, Craig Loftus wrote: I don't really want to raise the issue again but I found the new map of ODBL coverage (http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/) interesting as it literally highlights the effect the new license and terms will have on map coverage in the UK. No it doesn't. It highlights what might happen if we went ahead now without approaching anybody and asking them to relicense. It says absolutely nothing about what the map might look like after we have approached contributors and asked them to relicense. Rather than viewing it as a very misleading bit of scaremongering, I like to view it as a useful tool for tracking how the relicencing is going. ;-) - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I release all my OSM work as public domain anyway and believe that CC-BY-SA is a deeply inequitable licence when applied to data. I really don't get this. What is inequitable about CC-BY-SA? The requirement to share-alike? I thought the problem with CC-BY-SA was supposed to be that it didn't protect enough. The reason I support ODbL is that it's a more equitable licence that fixes issues with CC-BY-SA and that the community can get behind. Can you be specific about that? What is more equitable about it? What issues does it fix? I'd personally rather have PD, but the community consensus is not there for that; and if the community wishes to have a share-alike licence, I'm not comfortable with recommending a leaky licence whose share-alike provisions can be trivially circumvented. What makes you believe that the ODbLs provisions cannot also be trvially circumvented? Just because of the contract law provisions? That's the most trivially circumvented part of the ODbL. You just don't agree to the contract. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:23 AM, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: It strikes me as two issues - changing to ODbL and, separately, the inclusion of a clause in the CTs allowing a future unspecified relicensing by the OSMF. The two aren't, necessarily, interlinked. And for some reason the part about the DbCL gets swept under the rug and ignored. The clause in the CTs which is now causing so much trouble is: You hereby grant to OSMF a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. These rights explicitly include commercial use, and do not exclude any field of endeavour. These rights include, without limitation, the right to sublicense the work through multiple tiers of sublicensees. And yet the DbCL, which isn't even mentioned, contains a clause which reads: The Licensor grants to You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable copyright license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. These rights explicitly include commercial use, and do not exclude any field of endeavour. These rights include, without limitation, the right to sublicense the work. I haven't heard any fundamental objection to moving to ODbL ODbL does have a couple fundamental flaws compared to CC-BY-SA. It requires distribution of the underlying database when distributing a work produced from the database, and it allows proprietary maps to be produced from ODbL databases. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
The difference in my mind between the CTs and the ODbL is the provision that allows the license to be changed at a later date, potentially without further approval of the license. I don't believe this in ODbL. Without getting into any consideration of the need for the clause, my purely legal concern is that this is a hugely broad rights grant and it's far from clear to me how any data, other than completely newly sourced and never before licenced can comply with it. Kevin Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Sender: dipie...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:33:02 To: ke...@cordina.org.uk; Licensing and other legal discussions.legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:23 AM, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: It strikes me as two issues - changing to ODbL and, separately, the inclusion of a clause in the CTs allowing a future unspecified relicensing by the OSMF. The two aren't, necessarily, interlinked. And for some reason the part about the DbCL gets swept under the rug and ignored. The clause in the CTs which is now causing so much trouble is: You hereby grant to OSMF a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. These rights explicitly include commercial use, and do not exclude any field of endeavour. These rights include, without limitation, the right to sublicense the work through multiple tiers of sublicensees. And yet the DbCL, which isn't even mentioned, contains a clause which reads: The Licensor grants to You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable copyright license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. These rights explicitly include commercial use, and do not exclude any field of endeavour. These rights include, without limitation, the right to sublicense the work. I haven't heard any fundamental objection to moving to ODbL ODbL does have a couple fundamental flaws compared to CC-BY-SA. It requires distribution of the underlying database when distributing a work produced from the database, and it allows proprietary maps to be produced from ODbL databases. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change
Ed Avis wrote: I feel the same way but I come to different conclusions because of different starting assumptions. Sure. YMMV and no two people come at this with the same philosophy. My strongly-held belief is that, just as it's generally accepted that to discriminate against fields of endeavour with a non-commercial licence is not open (e.g. see http://blog.okfn.org/2010/06/24/why-share-alike-licenses-are-open-but-non-commercial-ones-arent/), the application of a creative works licence to a data project creates similar discrimination against fields of endeavour: traditional 'creative works' built on the data are required to be shared-alike, but other works (including even data) aren't. My view is that an artistic cartographic map using OSM data is as independent a creation as a routing application using OSM data, and the same rules should apply to the cartographic art as to the source code of the routing app. You don't have to agree. :) If the current licence can be trivially circumvented, people would be doing so by now and we'd see Google or Tele Atlas copying the OSM data with impunity; yet there are no such examples. Oh, there are plenty of infringements: yet another one whizzed by on #osm today and no doubt there'll be another later this week. Those who have to care about their PR (Google, Waze) will abide by the spirit of the licence, albeit in retrospect; the cost of the negative PR outweighs the minimal saving in geodata licensing. For some the equation balances the other way, so they won't attribute or share-alike. But I'm not really talking about infringements per se; I'm talking about circumventing the spirit of CC-BY-SA within the letter of CC-BY-SA. The computer-generated derivative previously discussed here and on cc-community is the obvious example; you can avoid having to share if you combine on the client rather than the server. (That could also be seen as a discrimination against a field of endeavour: you can practically use the loophole on computer cartography, but not on paper cartography.) As for PD, I'm not sure that the 'community consensus' on that has ever really been measured. Not formally, no. Certainly I based my decision to actively support a move to ODbL rather than a move to PD (or attribution-only) on the grounds that every time anyone even tentatively suggested the latter, the mailing list storm was so vast that I could never see it being remotely realistic. Of course, I hadn't realised that a storm would be provoked when anyone tried to suggest _anything_. :( cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-OSM-legal-talk-talk-New-site-about-the-license-change-tp5743322p5745029.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change
Anthony wrote: I really don't get this. We have been through this before. I have no interest in engaging with you - the sole person about whom I'll say that after six years in this project - as a result of the ad hominem you resorted to last time round. I will happily talk to Etienne, John, Liz, Ed, anyone else who I may disagree with on some issues, but I refuse any more to sink to your level. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-OSM-legal-talk-talk-New-site-about-the-license-change-tp5743322p5745042.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Anthony wrote: I really don't get this. We have been through this before. I have no interest in engaging with you Why would you send an email to the list explaining that? By doing so aren't you engaging with me? On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: as a result of the ad hominem you resorted to last time round. What ad hominem? I don't think I engaged in an ad hominem last time around, but you show me where I did, then I'll apologize. I certainly have in the past pointed out your inconsistencies. That is, in fact, what I was doing just now. You say you want PD, then you criticize CC-BY-SA for being too PD-like, then you criticize it again for not forcing people to share. If I've questioned you as an individual, it's because I'm trying to understand your motives. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
Kevin, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: The difference in my mind between the CTs and the ODbL is the provision that allows the license to be changed at a later date, potentially without further approval of the license. I don't believe this in ODbL. The CT allow the changeover to any other free and open license under the conditions that (clause 3) * the OSMF decides to do it * a 2/3 majority of active mappers are in favour. That's quite a lot of further approval I should think. ODbL in itself has an upgrade clause, too; it allows derived databases (including of course a complete copy) to be licensed under (section 4.4) * ODbL 1.0, * a later version of ODbL similar in spirit to ODbL 1.0, * a license compatible to ODbL 1.0. Now who exactly decides when to issue a later version of ODbL or what makes a license compatible isn't made explicit, but I think it is safe to say that an upgrade along that path would be possible with a lot less eyes watching than an upgrade under the upgrade per clause 3 of the CT! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
Hi, Rob Myers wrote: As does OSM's existing CC-BY-SA 2.0 licence. I believe such an upgrade path was how Wikipedia changed from GFDL to CC-BY-SA, wasn't it? They got the makers of GFDL to release a newer version of GFDL that would provide an upgrade window. If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1; alas they had their own plans (and saying to them You guys have more money than God, and I think you want to own this space, and I think you're trying to stop dissent from your Vision. when they popped up here to discuss probably didn't help). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On 11/16/2010 10:08 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Rob Myers wrote: As does OSM's existing CC-BY-SA 2.0 licence. I believe such an upgrade path was how Wikipedia changed from GFDL to CC-BY-SA, wasn't it? They got the makers of GFDL to release a newer version of GFDL that would provide an upgrade window. It was a different upgrade path from the one in BY-SA but basically yes. BY-SA 2.0 and above state that you can relicence derivatives (adaptations) under a later licence or a licence from a different jurisdiction: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/legalcode 4.b: You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License, or a Creative Commons iCommons license that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g. Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Japan) With Wikipedia, the FSF released a special point version of the FDL that would allow large wiki projects (hint, hint ;-) ) to vote to relicence to BY-SA for a limited time period. If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical Sure. It might still be worth asking them about this if people haven't already. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1 If Creative Commons wanted to support the export of sui generis database protection, there wouldn't have been a need for ODbL in the first place. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
Hi, Anthony wrote: If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1 If Creative Commons wanted to support the export of sui generis database protection, there wouldn't have been a need for ODbL in the first place. It was Creative Commons who started the process of looking for a license that led to ODbL. It's just that Creative Commons left that process along the way. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Use Case
Hi Andrzej, Thank you for your previous answer ! Case A Let us suppose (as you mentioned) that the addresses are published. I think that some users of the web site might consider that there is a privacy issue. At least, I think that there is a privacy issue when a user provides his own address. Case B Let us suppose now (as you mentioned) that a piece of code is published instead of the addresses. I understand from the 4.6 section (quoted below) of the ODbL that the addresses can be retrieved anyway. Therefore, in any case (A or B), I think that there is a privacy issue. 4.6 Access to Derivative Databases. If You Publicly Use a Derivative Database or a Produced Work from a Derivative Database, You must also offer to recipients of the Derivative Database or Produced Work a copy in a machine readable form of: a. The entire Derivative Database; or b. A file containing all of the alterations made to the Database or the method of making the alterations to the Database (such as an algorithm), including any additional Contents, that make up all the differences between the Database and the Derivative Database. Summary Here is my current understanding: - If the CC-BY-SA license is used, then there is not any privacy issue since the addresses do not have to be published, - If the ODbL license is used instead, then there is a privacy issue since the addresses have to be published. Is my understanding correct ? Or is there any solution to protect the privacy while complying with the ODbL license ? Thank you very much for your help. Xavier ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Nearmap vs CTs: any progress?
It's a summaryhttp://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chromeie=UTF-8q=define:+summary, which means that it omits some of the detail. The actual licence is at http://www.nearmap.com/products/community-licence http://www.nearmap.com/products/community-licenceRegards Ben On 17 November 2010 01:56, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: In order to derive data from nearmap.com PhotoMaps, you must agree to our community licence, which says: If you derive information from observing our PhotoMaps, and include that information in a work, you will own that work, and may distribute it to others under a Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike (CC-BY-SA) licence. In other words, you're constrained in what you can do with that derived work. What you quote is a summary of the license terms. What the actual license terms say is that: you may only distribute Derived Works to others on the terms of a Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike (CC-BY-SA) licence (and you may use any version of that licence you wish, whether localised for a particular country or not) The inclusion of that word only in the actual license terms (as opposed to the summary), makes all the difference in the world. I'd suggest you get your lawyers to add the word only to the summary you just quoted, after may and before distribute, as the summary is very misleading otherwise. Alternatively, you could take the word only out of the actual license terms, in which case Nearmap's license terms and CT 1.2 might very well be compatible. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Ben Last Development Manager nearmap.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On 16 November 2010 23:08, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1; They could probably make ODbL a compatible license but that wouldn't satisfy those wanting the ability to upgrade to another free and open license, let alone all the rights granted in the current Contributor Terms. These people would still want everything that is used by OSM under ODbL to be re-mapped from scratch. Of course Creative Commons could in theory make PDDL a compatible license, or something else that supposedly satisfies the CT, but that would hurt so many other projects, authors, artists, who used a CC license. Cheers ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] [DRAFT] Contributor Terms 1.2
There have been several revisions to a new draft of the Contributor Terms from the LWG over the last few meetings. https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_933xs7nvfb Various draft versions have been around for a while. I think we've improved the CT with each revision. LWG have had some wonderful suggestions from members of the community that are incorporated in the current draft. On the other hand it feels like there have been more folks with criticisms of CT v1.0 than there are folks who have taken the time to offer a patch. So I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who criticize CT v1.0. What do you think of the current draft of the contributor terms? Is this an improvement? What aspects address your concerns regarding previous versions? What aspects could be further improved and how? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Anthony wrote: If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1 If Creative Commons wanted to support the export of sui generis database protection, there wouldn't have been a need for ODbL in the first place. It was Creative Commons who started the process of looking for a license that led to ODbL. It's just that Creative Commons left that process along the way. They left what process? The goal of the process was not to find a license like the ODbL. The goal of the process was to address the sui generis database right within the CC framework. CC chose to address the right by including it in the definition of work and unconditionally waiving it. They did this because including the right otherwise might have the effect of exporting sui generis database protection to countries without it. It's a little more complicated than that. CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported, the one that most people use, is silent on sui generis restrictions. I don't believe they were seriously discussed (this would have been ~late 2006), but I haven't reviewed 3.0 discussions in a long time. There was a policy decision (summer 2007) to waive license requirements for sui generis restrictions in EU ports of 3.0, effectively conditional on compliance with the license requirements, unless there's a work in which only sui generis, not copyright, applies. I realize this is confusing, as well as the possibility that I'm confused. I work for CC at present, but am not a lawyer, just wanted to mention it is fairly nuanced, and note that CC is watching this and other data[base] discussions. In the fullness of time we'll begin planning for 4.0, and I believe it will be incumbent on CC to review how all of the difficult issues are addressed, not limited to sui generis, moral right^w^wimmoral restrictions ;-), scope of derivatives and noncommercial (obviously irrelevant here), porting, etc, etc. The folks at ODC took the exact opposite position, and created a license for the explicit purpose of trying to export the sui generis database right to countries which did not have it. On this issue I actually think CC-BY-SA made the wrong decision, and that they should have allowed the sui generis database right to be exported (in the updated version of CC-BY-SA). I'd hope for something between exporting bad policy and not dealing effectively with it (what are public copyright licenses but an attempt to deal effectively with bad policy!?), but I'm sure it is difficult. This would have made the ODbL unnecessary, at least for OSM's purposes, and would have not opened the door to all the *other* changes that came along with the addition of the sui generis database right (i.e. the ability to make proprietary maps from OSM data, the requirement to offer the Derivative Database or an alteration file along with Produced Works, the DbCL, the contributor terms, incompatibility with Nearmap, data loss, etc.) But regardless of whether they were right or wrong, I can't imagine them supporting the sui generis database right on one hand (by facilitating OSM's switch to a license which relies on it), and refusing to support it on the other (by only recognizing the right in their licenses long enough to waive it). A bigger problem, in my mind, would be facilitating a fracturing of the copyleft universe. I realize that there's an argument that data and content are separate magisteria, but I'm pretty skeptical. Non-offi(cc)iously, Mike -- https://creativecommons.net/ml ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
Hi, On 11/17/10 04:26, Anthony wrote: They left what process? The goal of the process was not to find a license like the ODbL. The goal of the process was to address the sui generis database right within the CC framework. This is not a contradiction. The ODbL could well have been the way to address data in the CC framework. I'd avoid talking specifically of the sui generis database right because that was clearly not an issue in the beginning; the issue they tried to solve was that no one understood the legal aspects of data very clearly, no one could figure out an algorithm for when copyright applied and when it didn't, and everyone wanted a solution. I'm not a CC insider; I have my knowledge mainly from stuff that John Wilbanks has published. The above quote is from http://blogs.nature.com/wilbanks/2007/12/ which tells a story that starts in October 2006. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] tracking deletions
Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? I've noticed a couple features missing in Kibera, and paging through changesets for a while didn't turn up anything. Looking at ItoMapper, deleted features aren't being visualized. Any ideas? Thanks-Mikel == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
On 16 November 2010 02:19, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: I've been a little selective in quoting your message but I think you have correctly identified the split. Germany and the UK with high mapper density are probably for the new license and dumping the older data other parts of the world that don't have the luxury of such a high density of mappers and rely on partnerships with government agencies etc and importing data are finding it much more difficult. Outside the main urban areas mapper density in the UK doesn't seem that high to me. Certainly in the SW I see the same few people active over a large area. The decision to change the license was made a long time ago when the project was much more about geeks on bikes. Like it or not this has changed over time so that external data is now important to a lot of mappers. I agree with Ed that there are plenty of people in the UK both for and against the change. Personally I don't care if the current license is weak as most organisations will respect its spirit and if a few don't who cares, it doesn't devalue our efforts one cent. I can't see how changing to an unproven license can possibly be worth fragmenting the project. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com wrote: Personally I don't care if the current license is weak as most organisations will respect its spirit and if a few don't who cares, it doesn't devalue our efforts one cent. I think if there is any case of people stealing data from osm they will get hung from a tree by the community. the community is the most important part of osm or of any project and this license issue is really not very productive in that regards. the other side effect of the license change means that some people will be able to make more commercial maps from the data and will benefit from the change, this minority will benefit a lot from the change, it is questionable if it is worth the effort and stress. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com wrote: Personally I don't care if the current license is weak as most organisations will respect its spirit and if a few don't who cares, it doesn't devalue our efforts one cent. I think if there is any case of people stealing data from osm they will get hung from a tree by the community. the community is the most important part of osm or of any project and this license issue is really not very productive in that regards. the other side effect of the license change means that some people will be able to make more commercial maps from the data and will benefit from the change, this minority will benefit a lot from the change, it is questionable if it is worth the effort and stress. It's clear that the current license is sufficient in most cases. In recent months Google, Nike, Waze have all responded quickly and appropriately when it has been pointed out that they've, probably inadvertently, violated the attribution clause. And those that wouldn't care are also those who wouldn't take any notice of ODbL either. The license change process was based on the premise, some two or three years ago, that the current license doesn't work for OSM. There's never been any evidence to back that up and our experiences so far suggest that *in practice* it actually does the job pretty well. Two years on it's hard to see what problems the license change would actually fix. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
On 16 November 2010 09:00, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? I've noticed a couple features missing in Kibera, and paging through changesets for a while didn't turn up anything. Looking at ItoMapper, deleted features aren't being visualized. Any ideas? OWL has some functionality to track history. That's how I tracked some deletion in my area (Thanks Matt). Emily Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
Mikel Maron wrote: Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? When editing the area in Potlatch, you can press 'U' (for undelete) to find deleted ways, and recover them if you desire. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/tracking-deletions-tp5743084p5743447.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
that works great, thanks how does potlatch recover this information? is there an API method I haven't noticed? == Mikel Maron == +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron http://mapkibera.org/ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti From: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 2:27:01 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions Mikel Maron wrote: Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? When editing the area in Potlatch, you can press 'U' (for undelete) to find deleted ways, and recover them if you desire. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/tracking-deletions-tp5743084p5743447.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
Mikel Maron wrote: that works great, thanks how does potlatch recover this information? is there an API method I haven't noticed? Only in Potlatch 1's AMF API at present, but you can call this from Perl, Python or Ruby if you're feeling brave: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/amf/ cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Announce search box with result suggestions
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi all, The lack of auto-complete or search suggestions like you see in for example Google (maps) and the OSM wiki search box has been bugging me for a Works ok for simple city names, but try typing Llanfairpwllgwyngyll. Since Nominatim doesn't do substring matches autocomplete doesn't work for long/tricky names or streetnames. It looks cool though, and a lot better than the one that is on the site right now. http://trac.openstreetmap.org/query?status=acceptedstatus=assignedstatus=newstatus=reopenedgroup=typecomponent=nominatimorder=idcol=idcol=summarycol=typecol=milestonecol=timekeywords=!~desc=1type=enhancement ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
2010/11/16 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au: Maybe I missed something, but when were the decisions made? back in 2008 That works great where youve got tiles full of lots of data, but what about in regional areas? If a mapper wants to contribute data, is OSM not interested in that data, because the person doesnt wish to accept a licence? yes, the same as before: if you want to contribute data you have to accept the current license. Otherwise it can't work out. I dont think there is interest in doing that, from the powers-that-be. Many 'users of our data' have been expressing concerns for many months, I think it is obvious that the license cannot be decided by the users of our data, but has to be decided by the contributors. While its great that some small parts of the world have a density of mappers adequate enough to map local regions extensively, in large parts of the world, this is simply not really practical. I doubt this. It may take longer, but without an active community imported data in these areas would anyway be useless. I think you are missing the point when you see OSM as a dumping place for imported data. This was never the project idea and neither it should be in the future. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] license change map
Hello Fabian, Can you make the legend text you have written down here available from http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/ I think a little explaination would be good. Maybe a simple about page will already do. 2010/11/11 Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de: As the license thermometer[1] turns greener I was interested in how far this already effects the map data. So using the planet history I took a closer look on the ways. So far 3700 mappers agreed to the new license. Out of 68 million ways 46% are created and edited only by people who did accept the ODBL. 42% were not edited by a proponent of ODBL, the remaining 12% of the ways have a mixed history. You will find a map of the ways colored according to their license (red = CCBYSA, green = ODBL, yellow = partly ODBL) at http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/ Fabian. [1] http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/treemap.png ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Milo van der Linden Open Source Geospatial consultant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Conversely, if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA then I'd leave as would several others. You'd leave if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA? Why? When did you decide that CC-BY-SA was so horrible, and why do you continue to contribute under it? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, 2010-11-16 at 14:18 +0100, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/11/16 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au: Maybe I missed something, but when were the decisions made? back in 2008 Maybe thats the problem then. Ive been a mapper since 2007 but only actively involved in ths communication process since possibly after the decision was made. I wonder how many people are like me, more interested in the mapping and only became aware of this whole licence problem, because everyone seems to disagree and the process has taken so long, without taking much time to work on the dissenters. I dont think there is interest in doing that, from the powers-that-be. Many 'users of our data' have been expressing concerns for many months, I think it is obvious that the license cannot be decided by the users of our data, but has to be decided by the contributors. Maybe Ive been reading different mailing lists to you, but the opinion of 'the contributors' expressed on here, seems to be split between yes and no, with some saying 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' and another group who seem set on following through with the changes, apparently with disregard for the users and/or data that will be lost to the project, not just because they disagree with the licence, but because they disagree with the technique and time taken to implement it. While its great that some small parts of the world have a density of mappers adequate enough to map local regions extensively, in large parts of the world, this is simply not really practical. I doubt this. It may take longer, but without an active community imported data in these areas would anyway be useless. I think you are missing the point when you see OSM as a dumping place for imported data. This was never the project idea and neither it should be in the future. Ive just returned from an 8000km trip across the country. Almost the entire trip, I was navigating by OSM data. Thankfully, there was a bit of imported data out there, as for a stretch of about 1800km of highway, there is basically *nothing* but dirt, trees and roads for almost 3 days of driving. There are a few remote fuel stops and roadhouses, and a myriad of trails along the way (Id easily guess over 1 million km of tracks). In these remote areas, youre lucky to have a mapper travel throguh the area once, better known having several people travelling through to upgrade and improve the data, the way it can be done in the city. That is my interest, as a user and a contributor. You look at areas like capital cities, and see a few items being removed, but still a lot of nodes within a square mile. I look at areas, where half the area of the country will be removed. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:06 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: back in 2008 Maybe thats the problem then. Ive been a mapper since 2007 but only actively involved in ths communication process since possibly after the decision was made. I wholeheartedly agree that the process has taken far, far too long and the right answer would have been to switch earlier. I still think we could accelerate the process and we'd be able to move on as a community. The reason we've moved so slow has been partially not to upset people, but instead it's done the opposite. The other reason this is complicated, though, is that OSM started with a faulty process of not requiring copyright assignment, which meant that every contributor had to be handled separately. That's being fixed now with the new CT. I wonder how many people are like me, more interested in the mapping and only became aware of this whole licence problem, because everyone seems to disagree and the process has taken so long, without taking much time to work on the dissenters. If you honestly feel this way, explain in clear steps what the OSMF could do to work with dissenters that doesn't include stopping the current process of migrating to a new license. Maybe Ive been reading different mailing lists to you, but the opinion of 'the contributors' expressed on here, seems to be split between yes and no Whenever there's an actual poll done, there's a large group who say to change license, a small group who says they don't want to change, and a huge group who doesn't care. The group who says to change was, if not 3x bigger, then 2x bigger. This is a non-issue other than some vocal dissenters who seem larger in numbers than they are because they're loud and disruptive. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change
I think that the problems and implications of the change were not well explained or even understood at the time. I'm not even sure they are today by many people. My training in computer system design suggests that listing the requirements and concerns of the various users might be a useful starting point and this should include non mappers to determine what is useful to them. Perhaps the wiki might be an appropriate place? Only when you have these concerns and requirements can you determine how they will be met. You may decide that the requirement of some Canadian mappers who wish to feed map data back into CANVEC but feel they can't under the current licence can either be accommodated in some way or you take the conscious decision to ignore the requirement as being not important. Concerns are being raised and essentially being totally ignored at the moment and I think that is where the frustration is coming from. I don't think its a desire to overthrow the OSM organisation but would like to feel that whoever planned this license change thought about these issues beforehand and has acceptable answers to the concerns. I must confess there is a confidence issue here, if the process was well thought out and which is demonstrated by an FAQ that addresses the concerns then every one is happy and its been a communication issue. At the extreme if the concerns cannot be addressed other than by saying in a confrontational way we don't like imports so just map everything from scratch. Then perhaps the correct thing to do is to recognise there are different sets of requirements in different parts of the world that cannot be reconciled and essentially split off those who wish to do something differently. Cheerio John I wonder how many people are like me, more interested in the mapping and only became aware of this whole licence problem, because everyone seems to disagree and the process has taken so long, without taking much time to work on the dissenters. If you honestly feel this way, explain in clear steps what the OSMF could do to work with dissenters that doesn't include stopping the current process of migrating to a new license. Maybe Ive been reading different mailing lists to you, but the opinion of 'the contributors' expressed on here, seems to be split between yes and no Whenever there's an actual poll done, there's a large group who say to change license, a small group who says they don't want to change, and a huge group who doesn't care. The group who says to change was, if not 3x bigger, then 2x bigger. This is a non-issue other than some vocal dissenters who seem larger in numbers than they are because they're loud and disruptive. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tracking deletions
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 November 2010 09:00, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Is there an easy way to track deletions only in a particular area? I've noticed a couple features missing in Kibera, and paging through changesets for a while didn't turn up anything. Looking at ItoMapper, deleted features aren't being visualized. Any ideas? OWL has some functionality to track history. That's how I tracked some deletion in my area (Thanks Matt). thanks for the plug, emily. ;-) mikel, if you want to track changes occurring in Kibera, including deletions, here's an RSS feed of the changesets in that approximate area: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/feed/2541202888-2541202879.rss if you prefer to inspect the data, you can see the most recent changes here: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/weeklymap?zoom=16lon=36.78725lat=-1.31272layers=BT or changes since OWL started running here: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/map?zoom=16lon=36.78725lat=-1.31272layers=BT hope that's helpful, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Slow?
Is it just me, or are the website and API wicked slow right now? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Slow?
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 21:23:58 -0500, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Is it just me, or are the website and API wicked slow right now? It's not just you. I've had waits for minutes uploading 10-part chunks. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Announce search box with result suggestions
Hey Martijn, I hope I can give some constructive criticism: The idea is perfect but it does not help for me (at this alpha stage). It even is worse to be honest then without suggestions. I'll explain why. When you type a word and at the first characters you see already results. These results don't give any good options, yes they match the typed characters but not the result you like to have. Try Amsterdam. Only at Amsterda then it suggested that you want Amsterdam. But in Holland you'd like already with Amst that it suggest Amsterdam and Amstelveen etc. 99% sure you don't want Grove Ct, Lisletown, Fayette, Kentucky, United States of America. :) So IMHO we need the following: [brainstorm mode] - Give points for each search on a string which gives an result. Give suggestions based on all that has more then 1 point sorted on points descending. (life time of a point is smth like 60 days) - Give suggestions based on your country. So IMO make a formula for search points of foreign countries vs your current country (based on your IP). Smth like: search_suggestions = max ( descending ( current country suggestions + surrounding_country suggestions / 2 + other countries / 5 ) ; 10) [/brainstorm mode] In this way the system then will work is that the good best top results in your country are shown with the best top ones in the surrounding countries and only the top ones in the world. This is most likely the result you like. Now you see very nice towns in China but for sure you will never want these _here_ in the Netherlands as a result but for sure if you are in (the right part of) China. Regards, Frenzel 2010/11/5 Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Hi all, The lack of auto-complete or search suggestions like you see in for example Google (maps) and the OSM wiki search box has been bugging me for a while. So I created a prototype based on the Nominatim API and the Google Closure JS framework. There's a lot of things it won't do yet, but it's a decent first step. Give it a try, I will put the source in SVN if you want to get your hands dirty with this. http://lima.schaaltreinen.nl/mvexel/nominatim/ Best, Martijn martijn van exel +++ m...@rtijn.org laziness - impatience - hubris http://schaaltreinen.nl/ twitter / skype: mvexel flickr: rhodes ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[Talk-br] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] Re: Importa ção do Autocad
Podemos reverter. Início da mensagem encaminhada *De:* sodeiro m-144840-31b...@messages.openstreetmap.org *Data:* 16 de novembro de 2010 08h18min11s BRST *Para:* vitor.geo...@gmail.com *Assunto:* *[OpenStreetMap] Re: Importação do Autocad* Olá vgeorge, sodeiro enviou uma mensagem pelo OpenStreetMap para você com o assunto Re: Importação do Autocad: == olá, pode removela, subi com erro nas cordenadas. att. n 2010-11-12 22:14:13 UTC vgeorge wrote: Olá, Vimos que você fez uma importação que parece estar incorreta: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6234414 Os dados estão no meio do mar. Podemos reverter esta edição? Se precisar de ajuda, acesse a lista de discussão talk-br: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br Saudações, Vitor == Você pode ser a mensagem em http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/144840 e pode respondê-la em http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/144840 ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-is] Kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap
Sæll Stefán. Í framhaldi af spjallinu okkar í gær sendi ég hér formlega beiðni um kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap. Gögnin sem við óskum eftir eru þau sem eru aðgengileg á heimasíðu Snertils ( http://www.infrapath.is/mapguide/fusion/templates/mapguide/Seltjarnarnes/). Þessum gögnum yrði bætt í OpenStreetMap gagnagrunninn og yrðu þar með aðgengileg öllum sem hann vilja nota. OpenStreetMap grunnurinn er gefin út undir opnu og frjálsu hugbúnaðar/gagna leyfi sem gerir hverjum sem er kleift að nýta hann í hvaða tilgangi sem er. Nánar má lesa um leyfis mál á þessari síðu og undirsíðum hennar: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Licence Á Snertils síðunni er hægt að skoða þessi gögn en ekki virðist vera hægt að hlaða þeim niður, þyrftum við því að geta nálgast þessi gögn með einhverjum öðrum leiðum ef þessu verður. Kort teiknað upp úr þessum kortagrunni má sjá á heimasíðu OpenStreetMap: http://www.openstreetmap.org og til gamans þá er hér hlekkur beint á Seltjarnarnes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=64.1545mlon=-21.995zoom=14 Ég sendi þennan póst líka á íslenska OpenStreetMap póstlistann ( talk-is@openstreetmap.org), og best væri ef öll frekari tölvupóstsamskipti færu í gegnum hann. Annars er hægt að ná í mig persónulega á thorir...@gmail.com eða í síma 698 6314. Bestu kveðjur, Þórir Már ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
Re: [Talk-is] Kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap
Gott hjá þér, Þórir. Það minnir mig á að ég fór í dag á bæjarskrifstofuna í Garðabæ en gat því miður ekki fengið hnitagögn. Hins vegar er möguleiki að ég fái PDF með gögnum sem gætu gagnast fyrir húsnúmer og svoleiðis. Sú sem ég var í sambandi við var að fara út og ætlar að kíkja á þetta á morgun. Hugmyndin var að ég fengi þetta á geisladisk en sjáum til hvort einhver skilyrði verði fyrir notkun þeirra. Hins vegar var mér bent á fyrirtækin Efla og Hnit upp á að fá hnitin sjálf. Hef enn ekki náð sambandi við neinn þar sem getur veitt mér bjargfastar upplýsingar um kostnað og leyfismál. Ef einhver vill taka það að sér, væri það frábært. Með kveðju / With regards, Svavar Kjarrval (sva...@kjarrval.is) s. 863-9900 On 16.11.2010 23:08, Thorir Jonsson wrote: Sæll Stefán. Í framhaldi af spjallinu okkar í gær sendi ég hér formlega beiðni um kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap. Gögnin sem við óskum eftir eru þau sem eru aðgengileg á heimasíðu Snertils (http://www.infrapath.is/mapguide/fusion/templates/mapguide/Seltjarnarnes/). Þessum gögnum yrði bætt í OpenStreetMap gagnagrunninn og yrðu þar með aðgengileg öllum sem hann vilja nota. OpenStreetMap grunnurinn er gefin út undir opnu og frjálsu hugbúnaðar/gagna leyfi sem gerir hverjum sem er kleift að nýta hann í hvaða tilgangi sem er. Nánar má lesa um leyfis mál á þessari síðu og undirsíðum hennar: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Licence Á Snertils síðunni er hægt að skoða þessi gögn en ekki virðist vera hægt að hlaða þeim niður, þyrftum við því að geta nálgast þessi gögn með einhverjum öðrum leiðum ef þessu verður. Kort teiknað upp úr þessum kortagrunni má sjá á heimasíðu OpenStreetMap: http://www.openstreetmap.org og til gamans þá er hér hlekkur beint á Seltjarnarnes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=64.1545mlon=-21.995zoom=14 http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=64.1545mlon=-21.995zoom=14 Ég sendi þennan póst líka á íslenska OpenStreetMap póstlistann (talk-is@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk-is@openstreetmap.org), og best væri ef öll frekari tölvupóstsamskipti færu í gegnum hann. Annars er hægt að ná í mig persónulega á thorir...@gmail.com mailto:thorir...@gmail.com eða í síma 698 6314. Bestu kveðjur, Þórir Már ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
Re: [Talk-is] Kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap
Ég átti erindi út á bæjarskrifstofuna hérna á Nesinu og ákvað að athuga með þetta í leiðinni. Stefán er umsjónarmaður kortagagna hjá bænum, en hann gat ekki svarað því hvernig leyfismálin stæðu og bað mig því um að senda sér tölvupóst með formlegri beiðni svo hann gæti tekið þetta upp fyrir bæjarstjórn. Hann sagðist persónulega ekki sjá neitt þessu til fyrirstöðu, þannig að ég er hóflega bjartsýnn á að þetta gangi. Kv. Þórir Már 2010/11/16 Svavar Kjarrval sva...@kjarrval.is Gott hjá þér, Þórir. Það minnir mig á að ég fór í dag á bæjarskrifstofuna í Garðabæ en gat því miður ekki fengið hnitagögn. Hins vegar er möguleiki að ég fái PDF með gögnum sem gætu gagnast fyrir húsnúmer og svoleiðis. Sú sem ég var í sambandi við var að fara út og ætlar að kíkja á þetta á morgun. Hugmyndin var að ég fengi þetta á geisladisk en sjáum til hvort einhver skilyrði verði fyrir notkun þeirra. Hins vegar var mér bent á fyrirtækin Efla og Hnit upp á að fá hnitin sjálf. Hef enn ekki náð sambandi við neinn þar sem getur veitt mér bjargfastar upplýsingar um kostnað og leyfismál. Ef einhver vill taka það að sér, væri það frábært. Með kveðju / With regards, Svavar Kjarrval (sva...@kjarrval.is) s. 863-9900 On 16.11.2010 23:08, Thorir Jonsson wrote: Sæll Stefán. Í framhaldi af spjallinu okkar í gær sendi ég hér formlega beiðni um kortagögn fyrir OpenStreetMap. Gögnin sem við óskum eftir eru þau sem eru aðgengileg á heimasíðu Snertils ( http://www.infrapath.is/mapguide/fusion/templates/mapguide/Seltjarnarnes/). Þessum gögnum yrði bætt í OpenStreetMap gagnagrunninn og yrðu þar með aðgengileg öllum sem hann vilja nota. OpenStreetMap grunnurinn er gefin út undir opnu og frjálsu hugbúnaðar/gagna leyfi sem gerir hverjum sem er kleift að nýta hann í hvaða tilgangi sem er. Nánar má lesa um leyfis mál á þessari síðu og undirsíðum hennar: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Licence Á Snertils síðunni er hægt að skoða þessi gögn en ekki virðist vera hægt að hlaða þeim niður, þyrftum við því að geta nálgast þessi gögn með einhverjum öðrum leiðum ef þessu verður. Kort teiknað upp úr þessum kortagrunni má sjá á heimasíðu OpenStreetMap: http://www.openstreetmap.org og til gamans þá er hér hlekkur beint á Seltjarnarnes: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=64.1545mlon=-21.995zoom=14 http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=64.1545mlon=-21.995zoom=14 Ég sendi þennan póst líka á íslenska OpenStreetMap póstlistann ( talk-is@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk-is@openstreetmap.org), og best væri ef öll frekari tölvupóstsamskipti færu í gegnum hann. Annars er hægt að ná í mig persónulega á thorir...@gmail.com mailto:thorir...@gmail.com eða í síma 698 6314. Bestu kveðjur, Þórir Már ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:53:41 +0100, Andreas Labres l...@lab.at wrote: On 16.11.10 08:14, Guenther Meyer wrote: type = sewer Ich bin jetzt im Englischen auch nicht sooo fit, aber für mein Gefühl ist sewer eher das einzelne Abflussrohr, der Abwasserkanal, während das Abwasser (als Kategorie) IMO eher sewage heißt. Das ist richtig. Allerdings würde ich mich eher für wastewater entscheiden, da es man_made=wastewater_plant ja schon gibt. Man könnte das Ganze auch man_made=wastewater_pumpstation nennen. Matthias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
Am 16.11.2010 09:06, schrieb Matthias Julius: On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:53:41 +0100, Andreas Labresl...@lab.at wrote: On 16.11.10 08:14, Guenther Meyer wrote: type = sewer Ich bin jetzt im Englischen auch nicht sooo fit, aber für mein Gefühl ist sewer eher das einzelne Abflussrohr, der Abwasserkanal, während das Abwasser (als Kategorie) IMO eher sewage heißt. Das ist richtig. Allerdings würde ich mich eher für wastewater entscheiden, da es man_made=wastewater_plant ja schon gibt. Man könnte das Ganze auch man_made=wastewater_pumpstation nennen. Ich würde eine Pumpstation von der Art her parallel zu Pipeline sehen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dpipeline Ob die einzelnen Subtags dort besonders schlau gemacht sind lasse ich mal dahingestellt, aber die Ähnlichkeit zwischen einer Pumpstation und einer Pipeline sind in der Realität so frappierend, das die dort verwendeten Subtags auch hier verwendet werden sollten. Also sowas wie: man_made=pump_station type=sewer Gruß, ULFL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 10:28:59PM +0100, Ulf Lamping wrote: Am 15.11.2010 22:04, schrieb Jochen Topf: Warum XML-Schemata? Mein Plan ist, dass der regelmäßige Import nach Taginfo so abläuft: * Konfigfiles des entsprechenden Programms aus SVN/Git auschecken. * DTD oder XML-Schema aus dem Repository mit lokaler Kopie vergleichen. Wenn sich was geändert hat, abbrechen und manuell überprüfen, ob Taginfo angepasst werden muss. * Konfig-Files gegen DTD oder XML-Schema checken, wenn die Files nicht valid sind, dann abbrechen. * Import der Daten nach Taginfo Auf diese Art und Weise kann ich sicher sein, dass ich merke, wenn in einer Quelle wichtige Änderungen vorgenommen werden. Nimm's mir nicht übel, aber das halte ich (zumindest aktuell) für eine Illusion ;-) Was genau ist da die Illusion? Notfalls schreibe ich die DTDs oder XML-Schema selbst, wenns kein anderer macht. Dauert dann halt länger. Aber mir fällt kein besserer Weg ein, wie ich mit Änderungen, die nicht unter meiner Kontrolle sind, zurecht kommen kann. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Hallo, welche Möglichkeiten gibt es, mit einen GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten nachträglich (rückwirkend) zu verbessern? Welche dieser Möglichkeiten lassen sich auf mit einem Consumer-GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten verwenden? Gern auch mit unorthodoxen Klimmzügen.. Soweit ich weiß, muss das Gerät dafür die GPS Rohdaten speichern können, was die meisten Consumergeräte nicht machen. Also kannst du das ohne Rohdaten nachträglich nicht per DGPS korrigieren. Liebe Grüße Benni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
Hallo, On 11/16/10 09:11, Jochen Topf wrote: Was genau ist da die Illusion? Notfalls schreibe ich die DTDs oder XML-Schema selbst, wenns kein anderer macht. Dauert dann halt länger. Aber mir fällt kein besserer Weg ein, wie ich mit Änderungen, die nicht unter meiner Kontrolle sind, zurecht kommen kann. Das Prinzip Google: Noch ein bisschen warten, bis niemand mehr ohne Tagstat auskommt, und dann sagen: Leute, wenn ihr wollt, dass euer cooler Editor hier eine Spalte in diesem coolen Tagwatch bekommt, dann stellt Eure Daten bitte in genau diesem Interchange-Format zur Verfuegung und macht einen Link von dieser Wikiseite und mein Crawler frisst das automatisch. In Nullkommanix haben wir jeden obskuren Editor mit aktiver Fangemeinde drin ;) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net wrote: wie der eine oder andere mitbekommen hat habe ich jetzt Ubuntu 10.10 installiert und dann auch JOSM was aber 20 Monate alt ist ! Das möchte ich jetzt updaten bin allerdings immer noch ein Linux-Greenhorn. josm aus der Distri verwenden ist lame. Ich verwende dieses Shellscript: --schnipp-- #!/bin/sh TARGETDIR=$HOME/bin/jar SUITE=latest #SUITE=tested pushd . cd $TARGETDIR wget -N http://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm-$SUITE.jar popd /dev/null m=1024M java -Xmx$m -jar $HOME/bin/jar/josm-$SUITE.jar $* --schnapp-- Gruss Sven -- If you can spend five minutes on the Internet and do not run Linux, you're a genius. (Dirk Hohndel) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:20:50 +0100, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 16.11.2010 09:06, schrieb Matthias Julius: On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:53:41 +0100, Andreas Labresl...@lab.at wrote: On 16.11.10 08:14, Guenther Meyer wrote: type = sewer Ich bin jetzt im Englischen auch nicht sooo fit, aber für mein Gefühl ist sewer eher das einzelne Abflussrohr, der Abwasserkanal, während das Abwasser (als Kategorie) IMO eher sewage heißt. Das ist richtig. Allerdings würde ich mich eher für wastewater entscheiden, da es man_made=wastewater_plant ja schon gibt. Man könnte das Ganze auch man_made=wastewater_pumpstation nennen. Ich würde eine Pumpstation von der Art her parallel zu Pipeline sehen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dpipeline Ob die einzelnen Subtags dort besonders schlau gemacht sind lasse ich mal dahingestellt, aber die Ähnlichkeit zwischen einer Pumpstation und einer Pipeline sind in der Realität so frappierend, das die dort verwendeten Subtags auch hier verwendet werden sollten. Also sowas wie: man_made=pump_station type=sewer OK, wenn es die Tags da schon gibt, ist das Kind ja schon in den Brunnen gefallen. Allerdings gibt es auch 25x type=sewage in OSM (type=sewer gibt es nur 24x). Das steht zwar nicht im Wiki, ist aber m.M.n. vorzuziehen. Die Wikiseite kann man ja anpassen. Matthias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Ich bin weit entfernt davon ein Spezialist zu sein, aber so wie ich es verstehe, braucht man für die nachträgliche Verbesserung ein Gerät, dass die Rohdaten loggt. Das können die meisten (alle?) Consumergeräte nicht (Ausnahme alte Garmin Phasetrackemfänger), es gibt aber diverse, im guten Sinne, Bastellösungen. Am besten mal hier lesen http://www.kowoma.de/gpsforum/viewforum.php?f=4sid=5d6699f66a2558843534d6610750aff7 Aktuell dürfte wohl der u-blox Evaluationskit http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=392p=productdetailsku=113 keine schlechte Lösung sein (braucht aber wohl auch Gebastel um portabel zu sein). Simon - Original Message - From: Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de To: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:51 AM Subject: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur Liebe GPS-Spezialisten, welche Möglichkeiten gibt es, mit einen GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten nachträglich (rückwirkend) zu verbessern? Welche dieser Möglichkeiten lassen sich auf mit einem Consumer-GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten verwenden? Gern auch mit unorthodoxen Klimmzügen... Stichworte: DGPS, Referenzstation, Korrektursignal, ... Mit herzlichem Gruss, Markus http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_Global_Positioning_System ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 07:23:01AM +0100, Marten Karl wrote: Hallo. Am 16.11.2010 00:04, schrieb Matthias Julius: Hat eigentlich irgend jemand mal das Debian-Paket ausprobiert? Ich fahre ganz glücklich mit dem Debian-Paket aus dem Unstable-Bereich (sid). Laut dpkg ist da ist die Version 3592 enthalten. Wenn es sich um einen Anfänger handelt, sollte man aber wohl noch dazusagen, wie er das Paket sinnvoll installiert und aktualisiert bekommt. Ich kenn mich mit Ubuntu nicht aus, aber unter Debian wäre es sinnvoll, hier folgendes zu tun: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/josm.list anlegen mit dem Inhalt: deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ sid main /etc/apt/preferences.d/josm.pref anlegen mit dem Inhalt Package: josm Pin: release a=sid Pin-Priority: 600 Das setzt voraus, daß die Preferences für Ubuntu 10.10 irgendwo auf 500 oder ähnlich gesetzt sind. Es sollte unbedingt geprüft werden, daß ein /etc/apt/preferences file existiert und sowas wie Package: * Pin: release a=ubuntu-release-name-wie-in-sources.list Pin-Priority: 500 steht - sonst handelt man sich ein Upgrade auf Debian unstable ein. Achtung: Das ganze ist wie gesagt ungetestet, da ich noch nie an einer Ubuntu-Maschine gesessen habe - aber so würde es unter Debian funktionieren. Viele Grüße Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am 15.11.2010 21:56, schrieb Guido Scholz: Am Mon, 15. Nov 2010 um 21:26:28 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: hi! Hi Jan, so das greenhorn hat sich jetzt die datei als verknüpfung auf den desktop gelegt und in den eigenschaften steht unter öffnen mit . archivmanager - aber dann wird immer das jar-archiv geöffnet. wenn Du Liebhaber von Icons auf dem Desktop bist, dann bietet sich noch eine andere Lösung an: Rechter Mausklick auf den Desktop, dann in dem Menü Starter anlegen ... wählen. In dem erscheinenden Fenster gibst Du unter Name meinetwegen JOSM ein und unter Befehl das Kommando: java -jar /home/benutzername/pfad/josm-tested.jar Wobeipfad z.B. Downloads sein könnte. Ja nach dem, wo Du das Original abgelegt hast. Gruß Guido ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de hi ! habe das gemacht - aber auf einen Doppelklick reagiert das gar nicht! Als Icon wird eine Symbol jetzt angezeigt was ich gar nicht haben will - in den Eigenschaften unter Embleme wird mir aber keine Möglichkeit geboten um ein eigenes zuzuweisen. Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
Am 16.11.2010 09:11, schrieb Jochen Topf: Was genau ist da die Illusion? Notfalls schreibe ich die DTDs oder XML-Schema selbst, wenns kein anderer macht. Dauert dann halt länger. Aber mir fällt kein besserer Weg ein, wie ich mit Änderungen, die nicht unter meiner Kontrolle sind, zurecht kommen kann. Über den klassischen OSM Weg: einfach so einbauen wie es gerade ist, wenn es später nicht mehr geht und jemand mault nochmal hinschauen ;-) Mit Illusion meinte ich nur, das du halt nicht drauf warten solltest, das es jemand anderes macht. Wenn du das selber in die Hand nehmen willst spricht natürlich nichts dagegen. Gruß, ULFL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Sebastian Klein wrote: Am bequemsten wäre natürlich ein eigenes Repository, dass man in sources.list hinzufügen kann. :) Ich habe eine PPA auf Launchpad entdeckt.[1] Leider ist diese nicht mehr aktiv. Daher werde ich mal versuchen, sie zu reaktivieren und dort aktuellen Content einzuspielen. Dann würde ein einfaches $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:openstreetmap/ppa $ sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install josm reichen, um den aktuellen JOSM zu installieren. Habe noch wenig Erfahrung mit der Erstellung von deb-Paketen, aber das ist ne Gelegenheit, sich das mal anzusehen. Dann haben viele wget-Scriptereien ausgedient und der Server wird auch nicht mehr so belastet. Gruß, Philip [1]: https://launchpad.net/~openstreetmap/+archive/ppa -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-Update-bei-Ubuntu-tp5739774p5743324.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Sebastian Klein basti...@googlemail.com wrote: Bei jedem Start die Datei herunter zu laden, verursacht unnötige Serverlast. Du hast das script nicht verstanden. wget lädt bei VErwendung des -N Schalters die Datei nur dann runter wenn sie neuer ist als meine lokale. Gruss Sven -- Das allgemeine Persönlichkeitsrecht (Art. 2 Abs.1 i.V.m. Art.1 Abs. 1GG) umfasst das Grundrecht auf Gewährleistung der Vertraulichkeit und Integrität informationstechnischer Systeme. (BVerfG, 1BvR 370/07) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Moin Jan,
hast du jetzt schon eine funktionsfähige Lösung? Wenn nicht, hier noch ein
meine Vorgehensweise ;)
Mein JOSM-Skript befindet sich unter /home/USER/bin/josm mit dem Inhalt
[1]. Wenn bei dir der Ordner bin noch nicht existiert, musst du _nach_ dem
Anlegen noch
source ~/.profile
aufrufen. Das ist nötig, damit die dort enthaltenen Einstellungen erneut
überprüft bzw. angewandt werden. Zudem muss der Ordner /home/USER/josm
existieren (mkdir ~/josm). Das neue Skript muss noch ausführbar gemacht
werden mit
chmod +x /home/USER/bin/josm
und kann dann von der Konsole aus gestartet werden mit
josm (dann wird die latest geladen und ein Backup gemacht)
oder
josm -t (dann wird die tested geladen + Backup)
Falls die aktuelle heruntergeladene Version dann mal nicht funktioniert,
kann man manuell immer noch eine ältere Version starten.
Gruß, Markus
[1]
#!/bin/bash
backup() {
[[ -f $1 ]] cp $1 $1.tmp
wget -N http://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/$1;
[[ -f $1 ]] || return
if diff $1 $1.tmp /dev/null
then
echo Creating backup...
mv $1.tmp $1.bak
else
rm $1.tmp
fi
}
cd ~/josm
if [[ ! $1 = -t ]];
then
backup josm-latest.jar
java -jar -Xmx512M josm-latest.jar
else
backup josm-tested.jar
java -jar -Xmx512M josm-tested.jar
fi
___
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Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 08:53:41AM +0100, Andreas Labres wrote: On 16.11.10 08:14, Guenther Meyer wrote: type = sewer Ich bin jetzt im Englischen auch nicht sooo fit, aber für mein Gefühl ist sewer eher das einzelne Abflussrohr, der Abwasserkanal, während das Abwasser (als Kategorie) IMO eher sewage heißt. Haette ich eigentlich auch gesagt. Da aber fuer pipeline wohl bereits sewer benutzt wird, hatte ich das vorgeschlagen. Man muss ja nicht alles neu erfinden... signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am Montag, den 15.11.2010, 13:48 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: wie der eine oder andere mitbekommen hat habe ich jetzt Ubuntu 10.10 installiert und dann auch JOSM was aber 20 Monate alt ist ! Eine Frage an die Experten: Wäre es viel Aufwand einen eigenen APT-Server aufzustellen und dort dann regelmäßig die josm-Versionen zu aktualisieren? Es verwenden ja doch einige hier *ubuntu etc, von da her würde es sich vielleicht lohnen. Beste Grüße, Simon ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Eine Frage an die Experten: Wäre es viel Aufwand einen eigenen APT-Server aufzustellen und dort dann regelmäßig die josm-Versionen zu aktualisieren? nette idee, viel aufwand und viel verantwortung. ich zieh mir ab und zu - wenn ich im log gesehen habe, dass etwas für mich relevantes passiert ist- ne neue josm-version per browser rüber und das wars. ne ältere version aus der reserve hab ich bisher 1x gebraucht. natürlich hab ich mir einmal den script angesehen und auch ein icon dafür gezaubert, aber das ist ja tagesgeschäft. gruss walter - Der Usus von Xenologismen ist auf ein Minimum zu reduzieren. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-Update-bei-Ubuntu-tp5739774p5743609.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Simon Kokolakis wrote: Am Montag, den 15.11.2010, 13:48 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Eine Frage an die Experten: Wäre es viel Aufwand einen eigenen APT-Server aufzustellen und dort dann regelmäßig die josm-Versionen zu aktualisieren? Es verwenden ja doch einige hier *ubuntu etc, von da her würde es sich vielleicht lohnen. Ist nicht nötig, einen eigenen APT-Server aufzusetzen. Eine PPA, wie ich zuvor schon vorgeschlagen habe, ist die abgespeckte Version einer Paketquelle (Personal Package Archive). Diese wäre zwar nur für Ubuntu verfügbar, aber das ist zumindest etwas. Ich werde heute abend mal schauen, ob ich ein gültiges DEB-Paket schnüren kann, denn dann wäre die Möglichkeit da, die o.g. PPA zu nutzen. Gruß, Philip -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-Update-bei-Ubuntu-tp5739774p5743628.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 04:31:49AM -0800, Philip Gillißen wrote: Diese wäre zwar nur für Ubuntu verfügbar, aber das ist zumindest etwas. Ich werde heute abend mal schauen, ob ich ein gültiges DEB-Paket schnüren kann, denn dann wäre die Möglichkeit da, die o.g. PPA zu nutzen. IMHO sollte eine Kopie des Debian unstable Pakets genügen, wenn nicht wäre es IMHO das Mittel der Wahl, die Quellen des Debian unstable Pakets neu zu bauen. Immer daran denken: Da hat schon mal jemand gute Arbeit geleistet und das muß man doch nicht noch mal machen, oder? Wenn was nicht funktionieren sollte - ich kenne den Maintainer, der ist Verbesserungsvorschlägen gegenüber sehr aufgeschlossen. Viele Grüße Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
Am 16. November 2010 09:06 schrieb Matthias Julius li...@julius-net.net: Das ist richtig. Allerdings würde ich mich eher für wastewater entscheiden, da es man_made=wastewater_plant ja schon gibt. +1 Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Andreas Tille-3 wrote: IMHO sollte eine Kopie des Debian unstable Pakets genügen, wenn nicht wäre es IMHO das Mittel der Wahl, die Quellen des Debian unstable Pakets neu zu bauen. Oh, das wäre vielleicht sogar noch besser und einfacher zu handeln. Dafür könnte ich einen cron einrichten, der das jeweils in die PPA schiebt. Andreas Tille-3 wrote: Wenn was nicht funktionieren sollte - ich kenne den Maintainer, der ist Verbesserungsvorschlägen gegenüber sehr aufgeschlossen. Das ist natürlich wunderbar, solche Beziehungen zu haben! Ich hoffe, wir müssen nicht darauf zurückkommen... :) Gruß, Philip -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-Update-bei-Ubuntu-tp5739774p5743759.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
Ulf Lamping schrieb am 16.11.2010 09:20: Ich würde eine Pumpstation von der Art her parallel zu Pipeline sehen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dpipeline Ob die einzelnen Subtags dort besonders schlau gemacht sind lasse ich mal dahingestellt, aber die Ähnlichkeit zwischen einer Pumpstation und einer Pipeline sind in der Realität so frappierend, das die dort verwendeten Subtags auch hier verwendet werden sollten. (Mal abgesehen davon, dass wir bei der urspruenglichen Fragestellung nicht mal genau wissen, wer da was pumpt.) Die Frage hier ist doch mal wieder, aus welchem Blickwinkel man ein Objekt betrachtet: A) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um ein Objekt der Abwasserentsorgung. Und wenn man das genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass es sich dabei um eine Pumpstation handelt. oder B) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um eine Pumpstation. Und wenn man sich diese genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass diese Abwaesser pumpt. Die eine Sichtweise ist genauso gut/schlecht richtig/falsch sinnvoll/unsinnig wie die andere. Und da wir bei OSM nun mal keine festen Vorgaben machen, kann man davon ausgehen, dass auch beide Sichtweisen ihre Anhaenger haben werden und dementsprechend auch beide irgendwann in der Datenbank auftauchen werden. Ein Glueck, dass es fuer die meisten Anwendungen (Karten) sowieso egal ist. Und wenn sich eine Anwendung speziell diesem Thema widmen will, dann wird sie sich halt mit den verschiedenen Spezialfaellen und Sichtweisen rumschlagen muessen. Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Hiho, wer sich damit beschäftigen will sein eigenes deb zu bauen der möge sich mal folgenden Videovortrag anschauen: MP4 - http://ftp.stw-bonn.de/froscon/2010/hs3/h264/hs3_-_2010-08-22_11:15_-_de_-_automatisiertes_bauen_von_deb-paketen_aus_vcs-snapshots_-_axel_beckert.mp4 OGV - http://ftp.stw-bonn.de/froscon/2010/hs3/theora/hs3_-_2010-08-22_11:15_-_de_-_automatisiertes_bauen_von_deb-paketen_aus_vcs-snapshots_-_axel_beckert.ogv Ist nicht s schwer wenn man sich das Originalpaket aus Debian anschaut und entsprechend den Ausführungen aus dem Video erweitert. Und ist letztendlich egal ob man ein Ubuntu fährt oder Debian nativ. Ansonsten schiebt man mal was ins Wiki. Die prinzipiellen Schritte wurden ja schon genannt. 1. Prüfen ob sich die Versionsnummer erhöht hat, bzw. der lokale Download älter wie die Datei online ist wenn ja 2. Buildprozess anstoßen 3. Paket installieren Ist schon fast ne schöne Übungsaufgabe für fortgeschrittene Einsteiger im Bash/Phyton Scripting :) Gruß Carsten Am 16.11.2010 13:31, schrieb Philip Gillißen: Simon Kokolakis wrote: Am Montag, den 15.11.2010, 13:48 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Eine Frage an die Experten: Wäre es viel Aufwand einen eigenen APT-Server aufzustellen und dort dann regelmäßig die josm-Versionen zu aktualisieren? Es verwenden ja doch einige hier *ubuntu etc, von da her würde es sich vielleicht lohnen. Ist nicht nötig, einen eigenen APT-Server aufzusetzen. Eine PPA, wie ich zuvor schon vorgeschlagen habe, ist die abgespeckte Version einer Paketquelle (Personal Package Archive). Diese wäre zwar nur für Ubuntu verfügbar, aber das ist zumindest etwas. Ich werde heute abend mal schauen, ob ich ein gültiges DEB-Paket schnüren kann, denn dann wäre die Möglichkeit da, die o.g. PPA zu nutzen. Gruß, Philip ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:49:36 +0100, Torsten Leistikow de_m...@gmx.de wrote: Die Frage hier ist doch mal wieder, aus welchem Blickwinkel man ein Objekt betrachtet: A) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um ein Objekt der Abwasserentsorgung. Und wenn man das genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass es sich dabei um eine Pumpstation handelt. oder B) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um eine Pumpstation. Und wenn man sich diese genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass diese Abwaesser pumpt. Die eine Sichtweise ist genauso gut/schlecht richtig/falsch sinnvoll/unsinnig wie die andere. Dann bietet sich vielleicht noch die Verwendung des utility-Tags an. Das gibt es ja auch schon 200x in OSM. Dann könnte man die obigen Fälle wie folgt behandeln: A) utility=sewage (oder wastewater) man_made=pumping_station oder B) man_made=pumping_station utility=sewage (oder wastewater) ;-) Matthias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
Am 15.11.2010 09:44, schrieb Sven Geggus: Meine Frage zielte daher gerade darauf welche Defizite ihr bei taginfo noch seht, die ein abschalten von tagwatch immer noch verhindern. Taginfo-Seiten kann man nicht wirklich brauchbar ausdrucken oder auch nur offline speichern. Da sind die Old-School-HTML-Tabellen von Tagwatch doch wesentlich leichter handhabbar. Da ich in der Vergangenheit schon z.B. bei Studienarbeiten tagwatch als Datengrundlage für bestimmte Entscheidungen verwendet habe (und der zu dem Zeitpunkt aktuelle Stand wegen der Flüchtigkeit der Seiten auch dauerhaft dokumentiert werden sollte), schätze ich, dass der Bedarf noch hin und wieder bestehen wird. Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am Tue, 16. Nov 2010 um 10:34:47 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de hi ! Hallo Jan, mal am Rande: Du solltest _dringend_ an Deinem Zitierstil arbeiten. habe das gemacht - aber auf einen Doppelklick reagiert das gar nicht! Das kann an zwei Fehlern liegen: 1) Java ist nicht mehr installiert, weil Du josm deinstalliert hast und kein anderes Java-Programm mehr installiert ist (das Sammeln von nicht mehr benötigter Software wird unter Umständen vom Paketsystem aktiv verhindert). 2) Deine Befehlszeile stimmt nicht, so dass die jar-Datei nicht gefunden wird. Das halte ich hier für das Wahrscheinlichere. Auf beide Fehler kann man leicht mit Hilfe eines Terminalfensters testen: Anwendungen/Zubehör/Terminal. 1) Eingabe which java Ausgabe /usr/bin/java Im Fehlerfall keine Ausgabe Maßnahme für den Fehlerfall: java über das Paketmanagement installieren (openjdk-6-jre). 2) Test auf die Existenz der Datei. Eingabe ls /home/benutzername/pfad/josm-tested.jar Ausgabe ls /home/benutzername/pfad/josm-tested.jar Im Fehlerfall ls: Zugriff auf /home/.../josm-tested.jar nicht möglich Maßnahme für den Fehlerfall: Richtigen Pfad heraussuchen z.B. mit Hilfe des Kommandos locate josm-tested.jar Als Icon wird eine Symbol jetzt angezeigt was ich gar nicht haben will - in den Eigenschaften unter Embleme wird mir aber keine Möglichkeit geboten um ein eigenes zuzuweisen. Ja das ist nicht besonders intuitiv; ich muß zugeben, dass ich mir hier schon mal von meinem Sohn helfen lassen musste. Wie an anderer Stelle schon erklärt, muss man hier auf das angebotene Symbol selbst klicken. Weiterhin viel Erfolg. Kompliment übrigens, Du hast ja einen richtigen Schneeball ins rollen gebracht. Gruß Guido -- http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am Tue, 16. Nov 2010 um 00:04:53 +0100 schrieb Matthias Julius: ... und wenn es Ubuntu in den Sinn kommen sollte, deren JOSM-Paket zu aktualisieren, wird die händisch installierte Version kurzerhand wieder überschrieben. Das ist prinzipiell möglich, wegen der Update Policy aber nur für den Katastrophenfall vorgesehen und damit extrem unwahrscheinlich. Das könnte irgendwann mal für Überraschungen sorgen. Die einzige Überraschung wäre, dass der Bediener dann unter Umständen eine alte Version vor sich hätte. Dann kopiert er die letzte Version wieder drüber und fertig. Gruß Guido -- http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am Tue, 16. Nov 2010 um 02:48:08 -0800 schrieb guerda: Ich habe eine PPA auf Launchpad entdeckt.[1] Leider ist diese nicht mehr aktiv. Ja traurig, die Gruppe hat 67 Mitlglieder und der letzte josm Upload ist von April 2009. Habe noch wenig Erfahrung mit der Erstellung von deb-Paketen, aber das ist ne Gelegenheit, sich das mal anzusehen. Zur Not kann ich aushelfen. Gib mal einen Zwischenstand, wenn Du was von der Gruppe hörst. Gruß Guido -- http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLayers offline programmieren
Christian Knorr wrote:
Wiso 3mal?
var url = [
map/${z}/${x}/${y}.png
];
sollte doch reichen (?).
Hast völlig recht, es reicht ein Mal, aber drei Mal schadet auch nichts!
--
View this message in context:
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Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am 16.11.2010 18:39, schrieb Guido Scholz: Das ist prinzipiell möglich, wegen der Update Policy aber nur für den Katastrophenfall vorgesehen und damit extrem unwahrscheinlich. Seit wann ist ein Update ein Katastrophenfall?? Wie der Paketverlauf in einem Debian basierenden System ist Dir aber schon bekannt? Ubuntu ist da nicht viel anders. Die einzige Überraschung wäre, dass der Bediener dann unter Umständen eine alte Version vor sich hätte. Und dann kommt die Frage Warum das den jetzt ... Der normale Einsteiger wird (besonders bei Ubuntu, da per default kein verbose Modus eingeschaltet ist) gar nicht sehen was im Detail für Updates auf das System installiert worden sind. Aber Paketverwaltungssysteme sind ja was für Anfänger. Und man bastelt mit Gewalt an Paketen rum und wundert sich das dieses oder jenes plötzlich nicht (mehr) funktioniert. Dann erkläre dies mal einen Anfänger, der ist dann für alle Zeit von Linux und dem eigentlich besseren Softwareverwaltungsystem geheilt und wird zwangsläufig in den Chor unter Windows ist alles besser mit einstimmen! Wunderbar, Ziel erreicht. Aber gut, unter Windows kann man ja in der Registry auch selber Hand anlegen, macht ja auch jeder Anfänger weil es ja Spaß macht. :-) Dann kopiert er die letzte Version wieder drüber und fertig. Sehr sinnig! Wo bitte steckt hier der tiefere Sinn? Dann doch bitte direkt der richtige Weg über ein aktuelleres Paket. Apt und Aptitude können sich schon seit einiger Zeit die Version eines Paketes merken. Das ist ein Feature kein Bug. Dann gibt es auch keine Überraschungen bei Updates. Dein gedachter Weg ist zwar theoretisch möglich, widerspricht aber nun mal dem Sinn eines Paketverwaltungssystems. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechler
Hallo Fabian, vielleicht hab ich es nur übersehen. Wie oft renderst du die Karte? Bzw. wie lange dauert es vom Zeitpunkt der Zustimmung zur neuen Lizenz bis zur Darstellung auf deiner Karte? Die übrigens super ist. Hab schon 2 Leute zum Lizenzwechsel bewegt, die davon bisher noch nix mitbekommen hatten. -- schönen Gruß Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM-Update bei Ubuntu
Am Tue, 16. Nov 2010 um 18:56:59 +0100 schrieb Carsten Schönert: Hallo Carsten, Am 16.11.2010 18:39, schrieb Guido Scholz: Das ist prinzipiell möglich, wegen der Update Policy aber nur für den Katastrophenfall vorgesehen und damit extrem unwahrscheinlich. Seit wann ist ein Update ein Katastrophenfall?? diese Interpretation meines Textes finde ich sehr verwirrend. Ich habe nicht geschrieben, dass ein Update ein Katastrophenfall ist, sondern, dass es ein Update nur im Katastrophenfall gibt. Gut, ich gebe zu, dass der Ausdruck Katastrophenfall sehr pointiert ist und ich ihn möglicherweise besser gleich in Anführungsstriche hätte setzen sollen (was ich hiermit nachgeholt habe), andererseits ist das kein Grund den Sinn zu verstellen. Um Dir den Hintergrund des Themas näherzubringen, habe ich Dir extra eine passende Literaturstelle herausgesucht, bitte studiere speziell den Abschnitt When: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates Wie der Paketverlauf in einem Debian basierenden System ist Dir aber schon bekannt? Ubuntu ist da nicht viel anders. Ja sicher, siehe die Literaturstelle oben. Die einzige Überraschung wäre, dass der Bediener dann unter Umständen eine alte Version vor sich hätte. Und dann kommt die Frage Warum das den jetzt ... Nun, ich denke da unterschätzt Du den Benutzer, der aufgrund meiner Beschreibung aktiv die Standardversion überschrieben hat. Der normale Einsteiger wird (besonders bei Ubuntu, da per default kein verbose Modus eingeschaltet ist) gar nicht sehen was im Detail für Updates auf das System installiert worden sind. Auch hier setzt Du Deine Unterschätzung fort. Ich bin aber froh, dass Du dem Benutzer wenigstens gestattest, zu bemerken, dass überhaupt eine Aktualisierung stattgefunden hat. Aber Paketverwaltungssysteme sind ja was für Anfänger. Und man bastelt mit Gewalt an Paketen rum und wundert sich das dieses oder jenes plötzlich nicht (mehr) funktioniert. Dann erkläre dies mal einen Anfänger, der ist dann für alle Zeit von Linux und dem eigentlich besseren Softwareverwaltungsystem geheilt und wird zwangsläufig in den Chor unter Windows ist alles besser mit einstimmen! Wunderbar, Ziel erreicht. Aber gut, unter Windows kann man ja in der Registry auch selber Hand anlegen, macht ja auch jeder Anfänger weil es ja Spaß macht. :-) Danke für diesen sehr engagierten Beitrag, allerdings pauschalisierst Du hier wieder sehr stark. Dann kopiert er die letzte Version wieder drüber und fertig. Sehr sinnig! Wo bitte steckt hier der tiefere Sinn? Ich darf hier auf meinen ersten Beitrag zu diesem Thema verweisen; dieser geht explizit auf diese Fragestellung ein. Dann doch bitte direkt der richtige Weg über ein aktuelleres Paket. Ich erlaube mir zu korrigieren: ... über ein aktuelles Paket..., denn darum dreht sich ja der ganze Diskussionsfaden. Apt und Aptitude können sich schon seit einiger Zeit die Version eines Paketes merken. Das ist ein Feature kein Bug. Dann gibt es auch keine Überraschungen bei Updates. Ich nehme an, Du meinst damit das, was man zu Neudeutsch mit apt-pinning bezeichnet (für interessierte Mitleser: [1])? Mal abgesehen davon, dass Du damit Deinem eben noch sehr unbedarften Anfänger nun recht viel zumutest, ist eine Grundvoraussetzung, dass überhaupt ein aktuelles Paket aus einer kompatiblen Quelle verfügbar ist. Damit sind wir dann fast schon wieder beim Anfang dieses Diskussionsfadens angelangt. Dein gedachter Weg ist zwar theoretisch möglich, Nicht theoretisch sondern praktisch problemlos... widerspricht aber nun mal dem Sinn eines Paketverwaltungssystems. Nein nicht ganz, denn es nutzt nach wie vor die Vorteile des Paketverwaltungssystems, ohne ihm irgendwelchen Schaden zuzufügen. Gruß Guido [1]: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/apt-pinning -- http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Umgang mit problematischen Dateneingaben
Am 14.11.2010 18:25, schrieb Schorschi: Diese sind (vermutlich) alle verzerrt, Windschief, als wenn er in einer falschen Projektion versucht, rechtwinklig zu malen (geogr. statt UTM oder sowas) ein Projekt im Planungsstadium, Leider hat er auch nie etwas zu seinen Quellen geschrieben, Bebauungspläne evtl.? -- evtl. als amtl. Bekanntmachungen nach UrhG interpretiert? Gruß Mueck ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
Hallo, Tobias Knerr wrote: Da ich in der Vergangenheit schon z.B. bei Studienarbeiten tagwatch als Datengrundlage für bestimmte Entscheidungen verwendet habe (und der zu dem Zeitpunkt aktuelle Stand wegen der Flüchtigkeit der Seiten auch dauerhaft dokumentiert werden sollte), schätze ich, dass der Bedarf noch hin und wieder bestehen wird. Wobei ich da aber sagen muss: Die Tagwatch-Skripte kann man ohne grosse Installation auch lokal auf einen Extrakt loslassen, also wer das ganze gerade eben nicht fluechtig und staendig aktuell, sondern nur mal eben einmal braucht, der kann sich das auch flugs selber rechnen, oder? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
Am 16.11.2010 21:23, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Tobias Knerr wrote: Da ich in der Vergangenheit schon z.B. bei Studienarbeiten tagwatch als Datengrundlage für bestimmte Entscheidungen verwendet habe (und der zu dem Zeitpunkt aktuelle Stand wegen der Flüchtigkeit der Seiten auch dauerhaft dokumentiert werden sollte), schätze ich, dass der Bedarf noch hin und wieder bestehen wird. Wobei ich da aber sagen muss: Die Tagwatch-Skripte kann man ohne grosse Installation auch lokal auf einen Extrakt loslassen, also wer das ganze gerade eben nicht fluechtig und staendig aktuell, sondern nur mal eben einmal braucht, der kann sich das auch flugs selber rechnen, oder? Das geht natürlich und ist in manchen Fällen ohnehin die bessere Lösung: Gerade dort, wo die Statistiken einen inhaltlichen Kernbestandteil und nicht nur eine Randnotiz darstellen. Du wirst aber vermutlich zugeben, dass es noch einen Unterschied im Aufwand zwischen diesem Vorschlag und Strg+S bzw. Strg+P gibt. ;) Es ist kein Killerfeature, und deswegen muss Tagwatch sicher nicht extra am Leben erhalten werden. Ein Vorteil von Tagwatch ist es aber in meinen Augen schon, und deshalb wollte ich es mal erwähnt haben. Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Pumpwerk der Entsorgung
Am 16. November 2010 17:48 schrieb Matthias Julius li...@julius-net.net: On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:49:36 +0100, Torsten Leistikow de_m...@gmx.de wrote: Die Frage hier ist doch mal wieder, aus welchem Blickwinkel man ein Objekt betrachtet: A) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um ein Objekt der Abwasserentsorgung. Und wenn man das genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass es sich dabei um eine Pumpstation handelt. oder B) Es handelt sich hierbei grob gesagt um eine Pumpstation. Und wenn man sich diese genauer betrachtet, sieht man, dass diese Abwaesser pumpt. genau, das ist der Punkt. Nur dass man mit den bisherigen Vorschlägen die beiden Ansätze nicht unter einen Hut bekommt: sie sind beide man_made. Dann bietet sich vielleicht noch die Verwendung des utility-Tags an. Das gibt es ja auch schon 200x in OSM. Dann könnte man die obigen Fälle wie folgt behandeln: A) utility=sewage (oder wastewater) man_made=pumping_station B) man_made=pumping_station utility=sewage (oder wastewater) dasselbe Problem. M.E. wäre ein Key Entsorgung nicht schlecht, da könnte man den Abwasseraspekt einbauen, während man_made für den Pumpenaspekt zuständig wäre. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Am 16.11.2010 15:01, schrieb Benjamin Lebsanft: 10 Jahre alt und ich hab die immer mit drin. Mit meinem Vista HCx schaff ich +-2m was für OSM meiner Meinung nach mehr als ausreichend ist. Ich vergleiche meine eingetragenen Straßen und Gebiete dann oft auf sautter und bin oft sehr erstaunt, wie genau das Garmin Gerät eigentlich ist. Das nehme ich Dir nicht ganz ab... Mag sein dass Du einzelne Aufzeichnungsabschnitte hast in denen alle aufgezeichneten Punkte in dieser Toleranz drin liegen, aber es würde mich sehr wundern wenn Du nicht auch eine markante Anzahl an Punkten hast die deutlich ausserhalb dieser Toleranz liegen. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Am 16.11.2010 08:51, schrieb Markus: Liebe GPS-Spezialisten, welche Möglichkeiten gibt es, mit einen GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten nachträglich (rückwirkend) zu verbessern? Welche dieser Möglichkeiten lassen sich auf mit einem Consumer-GPS-Gerät erfasste Daten verwenden? Gern auch mit unorthodoxen Klimmzügen... Stichworte: DGPS, Referenzstation, Korrektursignal, ... Selbst wenn es Dir gelingt Deine Daten sehr genau aufzuzeichnen nützt es Dir in OSM wenig wenn das die anderen nicht auch können. Oder wie willst Du verhindern dass ein anderer Deine Daten wieder verschiebt weil es sonst komisch aussieht wenn z.B, in einer schnurgeraden Strasse plötzlich ein Knick ist weil genau Daten in ungenauere übergehen? Gruss Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
N'Abend Garry, Selbst wenn es Dir gelingt Deine Daten sehr genau aufzuzeichnen Es geht um eher theoretische Überlegungen... Ziel ist hochgenaue Höhenmessung. Beispielsweise für Wasserspiegel/Tide: Benutzer liefert Log, daraus mit Postprocessing Höhe rechnen... Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Am 16.11.2010 23:43, schrieb Markus: N'Abend Garry, Selbst wenn es Dir gelingt Deine Daten sehr genau aufzuzeichnen Es geht um eher theoretische Überlegungen... Ziel ist hochgenaue Höhenmessung. Beispielsweise für Wasserspiegel/Tide: Benutzer liefert Log, daraus mit Postprocessing Höhe rechnen... Mhm - Ob man da nicht per Luftdruck-Referenzmessung das bessere Ergebniss erhält? Höhenmessung in dem Messbereich per GPS ist ja noch mal eine Stufe schwieriger. Geht es Dir dabei um die Messung an einem festen Ort (Boje) oder Mobil auf dem Schiff? Bei letzterem geht ja auch noch die Position mit in die Höhenberechnung ein, d.h. abhängig von der Position hast Du einen zusätzlichen Offset zwischen Meeresspiegel und GPS-Höhe bei konstanter Tide. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Am Dienstag, den 16.11.2010, 23:02 +0100 schrieb Garry: Das nehme ich Dir nicht ganz ab... Mag sein dass Du einzelne Aufzeichnungsabschnitte hast in denen alle aufgezeichneten Punkte in dieser Toleranz drin liegen, aber es würde mich sehr wundern wenn Du nicht auch eine markante Anzahl an Punkten hast die deutlich ausserhalb dieser Toleranz liegen. Natürlich war das mit den +-2m der Optimalfall, der manchmal erreicht wird. Es gibt auch genug Aufzeichnungen wo das nicht der Fall ist. Tut mir Leid, dass ich das nicht komplett richtig dargestellt habe, als Physiker sollte man es eigentlich besser wissen ;) Liebe Grüße Benni signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Moin Garry, Geht es Dir dabei um die Messung Mobil Ja. abhängig von der Position hast Du einen zusätzlichen Offset zwischen Meeresspiegel und GPS-Höhe Ja. Ich suche: Aktuelle Höhe des Meeresspiegels an veränderlicher Position, bezogen auf WGS84 Ellipsoid. Im Log habe ich Höhe (über Geoid? welchen?). Dafür suche ich Möglichkeiten für ein Postprocessing. Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS - Datenkorrektur
Am 17.11.10 07:51, schrieb Markus: Ja. Ich suche: Aktuelle Höhe des Meeresspiegels an veränderlicher Position, bezogen auf WGS84 Ellipsoid. Im Log habe ich Höhe (über Geoid? welchen?). Dafür suche ich Möglichkeiten für ein Postprocessing. Tobias Wendorff hat sich da eingehend mit befasst, ist aber derzeit studienmäßig eingespannt. Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tagwatch vs. tagstat
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 09:23:20PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Tobias Knerr wrote: Da ich in der Vergangenheit schon z.B. bei Studienarbeiten tagwatch als Datengrundlage für bestimmte Entscheidungen verwendet habe (und der zu dem Zeitpunkt aktuelle Stand wegen der Flüchtigkeit der Seiten auch dauerhaft dokumentiert werden sollte), schätze ich, dass der Bedarf noch hin und wieder bestehen wird. Wobei ich da aber sagen muss: Die Tagwatch-Skripte kann man ohne grosse Installation auch lokal auf einen Extrakt loslassen, also wer das ganze gerade eben nicht fluechtig und staendig aktuell, sondern nur mal eben einmal braucht, der kann sich das auch flugs selber rechnen, oder? Oder man benutzt die API von Taginfo und schreibt sich einen Miniwrapper drumrum, der die Daten ins gewünschte Format bringt. Vielleicht komme ich ja sogar mal dazu, die API zu dokumentieren. :-) Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
2010/11/15 Paolo Molaro lu...@oddwiz.org: Boh, i changeset che ho fatto tramite script saranno una dozzina, probabilmente meno, indicativamente un paio d'anni fa. lupus Se non ho sbagliato nulla, soo questi: http://repo.grimp.eu/osm/PaoloMolaroBot.html -- Fabio Alessandro Locati Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) Phone: +39-328-3799681 MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
Michael von Glasow piše: On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Fabio Alessandro Locati wrote: Penso che per 'entrambe' tu intenda sia l'ODbL sia il PD. Se non accetti l'ODbL, i dati da te inseriti verranno persi (quindi hai fatto bene ad accettarla, imho), 'accettare' il PD, in realtà è irrilevante, perchè un informazione raccolta solo a fini statistici ;) Secondo me è più di solo un'informazione statistica: l'utente che accetta il PD dà il consenso all'utilizzo libero dei suoi contributi - anche in forma mista con dati proprietari e facendo parte di un prodotto proprietario - insomma ha un effetto legale, anche se OSM a questo punto non se ne avvale. ciao Michael Tra tutte le discussioni e quello che ho letto anche io ho capito che si trattava solamente di una cosa statistica: per tentare di capire cosa ne pensano gli utenti del PD. Quindi nessun effetto legale. Ciao Damjan ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
2010/11/16 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net: Tra tutte le discussioni e quello che ho letto anche io ho capito che si trattava solamente di una cosa statistica: per tentare di capire cosa ne pensano gli utenti del PD. Quindi nessun effetto legale. Si, questo è quello che si è detto (anche perchè se no si sarebbe rilasciata una bella lista di persone che hanno 'accettato' il PD, no? ;)) -- Fabio Alessandro Locati Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) Phone: +39-328-3799681 MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Perche' non creiamo dei video-tutorials del progetto OpenStreetMap per i nuovi mappatori e per i mappatori avanzati?
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 05:43:57PM +0100, Infoweblan di Roberto Vito Gerardo wrote: Gli argomenti che possono essere sviluppati nei tutorials del progetto OpenStreeMap possono essere: 1. Cosa serve ad un utente per diventare membro della comunità OpenStreetMap 2. Primi passi con JOSM 3. Primi passi con POTLACH 4. Come inserire ed utilizzare le mappe del progetto OpenStreetMap nei sistemi GIS (open source) ecc. ecc. I tutorials devono essere tutti rilasciati sotto licenza Creative Commons o simili. Idea fantastica. Potreste collaborare con il famoso Antonio Cantaro ... ha fatto un mucchio di cose simili... http://www.istitutomajorana.it/ -- Marco Ciampa ++ | Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Perche' non creiamo dei video-tutorials del progetto OpenStreetMap per i nuovi mappatori e per i mappatori avanzati?
2010/11/16 Marco Ciampa ciam...@libero.it: Idea fantastica. Potreste collaborare con il famoso Antonio Cantaro ... ha fatto un mucchio di cose simili... http://www.istitutomajorana.it/ anche biasco.ch si era reso disponibile... -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
2010/11/16 marcram marcr...@email.it: Ad esempio, mi pare di aver visto che la lettera con cui Simone chiedeva l'autorizzazione per l'utilizzo della CTR del Veneto e del Friuli faceva riferimento ad una licenza CC. FVG è stato contattato e sono ok con la nuova licenza OSM. Questo vuol dire che non possono più essere utilizzate? E il consenso che diamo sul passaggio a ODbL dei nostri precedenti apporti (e quindi anche importazioni da ctr) non viola dunque l'autorizzazione a noi concessa? Scusate se per caso la risposta fosse banale, ma io di legalese non c'ho mai capito un'h... PCN ha dato autorizzazione al progetto, quindi non c'e' problema al cambio di licenza. -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
Fabio ho sistemato un attimo gli script e ho trovato un paio di errori.
Mi scuso per la lunghezza della mail, ma non sapevo come altro inviarti
le correzioni.
in check_uids.py hai un errore nel controllo dei nuovi user: a riga 24
-if uid 286581:
+if int(uid) 286581:
come anche in check_not_accepted.py alla riga 30.
e poi ci sono errori nello script di lettura degli uid, ti ho scritto
uno semplice script in python che dovrebbe correggere l'errore:
--
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
f = open(italy.osm, r)
users = {}
for line in f:
start = line.find(uid=')
if start != -1:
end = line.find(',start+5)
uid = line[start+5:end]
start = line.find(user=')
end = line.find(',start+6)
users[uid] = line[start+6:end]
print line[start+6:end] + + uid
--
che va inserito per il file ita-initial.sh:
--
#!/bin/bash
# Download the planet
rm italy.osm
wget http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/italy.osm.bz2
bunzip2 italy.osm.bz2
# Get all the people from nodes
rm italy_uids
rm italy_uids_sorted
python parser.py italy_uids
sort italy_uids | uniq -c | sort -rn italy_uids_sorted
--
per il resto mi sembra tutto ok.
Ciao a tutti
--
Francesco
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Re: [Talk-it] cambio licenza - mappa colorata
Ho fatto tutte le modifiche... ma il parser non funziona come dovrebbe
(mi ritorna un file vuoto). Al momento ho lasciato sia il vecchio
script che usavo sia quello nuovo nel repo ;)
2010/11/16 Francesco Vezzoli vezz...@gmail.com:
Fabio ho sistemato un attimo gli script e ho trovato un paio di errori.
Mi scuso per la lunghezza della mail, ma non sapevo come altro inviarti
le correzioni.
in check_uids.py hai un errore nel controllo dei nuovi user: a riga 24
- if uid 286581:
+ if int(uid) 286581:
come anche in check_not_accepted.py alla riga 30.
e poi ci sono errori nello script di lettura degli uid, ti ho scritto
uno semplice script in python che dovrebbe correggere l'errore:
--
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
f = open(italy.osm, r)
users = {}
for line in f:
start = line.find(uid=')
if start != -1:
end = line.find(',start+5)
uid = line[start+5:end]
start = line.find(user=')
end = line.find(',start+6)
users[uid] = line[start+6:end]
print line[start+6:end] + + uid
--
che va inserito per il file ita-initial.sh:
--
#!/bin/bash
# Download the planet
rm italy.osm
wget http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/italy.osm.bz2
bunzip2 italy.osm.bz2
# Get all the people from nodes
rm italy_uids
rm italy_uids_sorted
python parser.py italy_uids
sort italy_uids | uniq -c | sort -rn italy_uids_sorted
--
per il resto mi sembra tutto ok.
Ciao a tutti
--
Francesco
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--
Fabio Alessandro Locati
Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1)
Phone: +39-328-3799681
MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com
PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61
Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia
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