Re: [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
Gentlemen, Quit bringing your extreme nationalism to the discussion. The map should be useful to the local people. There are two official languages in Kosovo, Albanian and Serbian. Other languages can be used locally when at least 5% of the population uses them. I hope you stick to this. Regards from Kosovo, Arianit On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Dragutin Cvetkovic dra...@maildrome.com wrote: Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been able to figure this out yet. there is a user : http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits who is busy changing all the names: Serbs live there = Serb naming what do do about this? mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ Talk-rs mailing list Talk-rs@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs ___ Talk-rs mailing list Talk-rs@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs
[talk-ph] Fwd: towns and inter-town roads
Forwarding this mail to the list for further discussion. -- Forwarded message -- From: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:00 PM Subject: Re: towns and inter-town roads Dear Ed and everyone, I actually proposed this naming scheme for national roads without names [0], so far, no consensus. But I fully agree on your proposal to do this. Regarding the the whole Trunk in Northern Luzon is simply named R-9, would it be better to use a relation for the ref=R-9? [0] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2011-October/003555.html On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, I have just been on a road trip to the north and have been extensively using the OSM Garmin Map and experimented in how it can help me find my way through inter-town sidetrip travel especially in Northern Pangasinan. I came up with some nice-to-implement' things on the map. For starters, it was, and it would really be nice to have those inter-town roads be named with the town names that they link. Example: Urdaneta - San Jacinto, or San Jacinto - San Fabian road This is very useful as I found out that this helps a lot in showing the traveler whether they are on the right route when traveling from town to town. Like, it happened so when I was trying to find my way back from Manaoag to Urdaneta yesterday. I tried following the streets signs at Manaoag that say to Manila and was already on the road leaving Manaoag behind when I saw on the GPS telling me: Driving along Manaoag - Mapandan when I should be along Urdaneta - Manaoag! Now, if the road had no appropriate name on the GPS, I would have ended up in the wrong town. I have already named a number of inter-town roads with the above naming convention on OSM. Especially those that do not have any names yet. This works well for primary inter-town roads. But, I have a slight problem with Trunk roads ... the whole Trunk in Northern Luzon is simply named R-9 ... How can we nicely incorporate the town-to-town info on trunks? Anyway, the whole idea on the above is to give the GPS user a good idea on what inter-town road they are driving on, and an idea on what the next town is down the road, and better even on how far down the road is the next town. It would have been easy to navigate so if the GPS had the town names as waypoints so the gps user would simply do a find or where to to the next town. But problem is, the GPS (or the GPS map) does not always have the town names available for searching. The towns cannot be found in Cities, well, because they are not really Cities. They can sometimes be found under Points of Interest and by doing a Spell Name. We must somehow have a Town category. At the moment, on my next road trip on Dec 23, I will try to compile as much towns as I can and put them on a POI list that is uploadable to the Garmin via POI Loader so I can do a where to by pointing to the extras. I will experiment with custom route uploads too. yun lang po, cheers! -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like - How to reassign shortcut keys - How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks - How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) - How to assemble the names of objects from their tags - How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) - How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping - How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) - How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like - How to reassign shortcut keys - How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks - How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) - How to assemble the names of objects from their tags - How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) - How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping - How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) - How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
I won't be able to make it. The exams will be rather close on January 6. But would it be possible to make a little report on it? Certainly on the license change things? Regards, Sander Op 14 dec. 2011 10:53 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com het volgende: I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like - How to reassign shortcut keys - How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks - How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) - How to assemble the names of objects from their tags - How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) - How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping - How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) - How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
At least one week later would also be better for me, as I'm away for Christmas. Cheers, Jw On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:47, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: What about one week later? The date is not set in stone. Jo 2011/12/14 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Now that Sander mentions it I checked my own exams and I have one on the 8th so I will not be able to make it either! Sorry! Stupid! On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: I won't be able to make it. The exams will be rather close on January 6. But would it be possible to make a little report on it? Certainly on the license change things? Regards, Sander Op 14 dec. 2011 10:53 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com het volgende: I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like How to reassign shortcut keys How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) How to assemble the names of objects from their tags How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
I have exams until February 3 I believe, so one week would not be enough for me. But I don't mind if you do it without me. Op 14 dec. 2011 11:47 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: What about one week later? The date is not set in stone. Jo 2011/12/14 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Now that Sander mentions it I checked my own exams and I have one on the 8th so I will not be able to make it either! Sorry! Stupid! On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.comwrote: I won't be able to make it. The exams will be rather close on January 6. But would it be possible to make a little report on it? Certainly on the license change things? Regards, Sander Op 14 dec. 2011 10:53 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com het volgende: I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like - How to reassign shortcut keys - How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks - How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) - How to assemble the names of objects from their tags - How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) - How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping - How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) - How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
Hello, new user here. How can I accept the new license? Thanks a lot. No exams here, so the date does not matter. WB Op 14-dec.-2011 om 12:59 heeft Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: We can have a meeting like this every month anyway, but I'm going to postpone it one week. I'm awaiting Julien's reaction first though. Jo 2011/12/14 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com I have exams until February 3 I believe, so one week would not be enough for me. But I don't mind if you do it without me. Op 14 dec. 2011 11:47 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: What about one week later? The date is not set in stone. Jo 2011/12/14 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Now that Sander mentions it I checked my own exams and I have one on the 8th so I will not be able to make it either! Sorry! Stupid! On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: I won't be able to make it. The exams will be rather close on January 6. But would it be possible to make a little report on it? Certainly on the license change things? Regards, Sander Op 14 dec. 2011 10:53 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com het volgende: I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like How to reassign shortcut keys How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) How to assemble the names of objects from their tags How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th
Depends how you define new but recent users should already have accepted when creating their account. You can see the status on your 'user' page under *Contributor terms* Here is mine: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ben Abelshausen oh and welcome to OSM! :-) On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Peter Verschueren peter.verschue...@me.com wrote: Hello, new user here. How can I accept the new license? Thanks a lot. No exams here, so the date does not matter. WB Op 14-dec.-2011 om 12:59 heeft Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: We can have a meeting like this every month anyway, but I'm going to postpone it one week. I'm awaiting Julien's reaction first though. Jo 2011/12/14 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com I have exams until February 3 I believe, so one week would not be enough for me. But I don't mind if you do it without me. Op 14 dec. 2011 11:47 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: What about one week later? The date is not set in stone. Jo 2011/12/14 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Now that Sander mentions it I checked my own exams and I have one on the 8th so I will not be able to make it either! Sorry! Stupid! On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: I won't be able to make it. The exams will be rather close on January 6. But would it be possible to make a little report on it? Certainly on the license change things? Regards, Sander Op 14 dec. 2011 10:53 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com het volgende: I will try to make it to Leuven this time! Maybe the licence change and how to handle it in an organized manner could be dicussed as well? Does someone have an idea of the (inactive)users that still need to be contacted regarding the licence change? There are a few users with a huge amount of contributions that will be deleted on the 1st of April. Do we start re-mapping or first try and contact the user(s) again? I think this requires maybe a more coordinated effort no? Regards, Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I want to announce another informal meeting in STUK Leuven on January 6th 2012. Topics we might discuss: JOSM, introduction (for newbies) and advanced uses like - How to reassign shortcut keys - How to work with photos in combination with GPX tracks - How to put emphasis on the objects/properties that really interest you (mapcss) - How to assemble the names of objects from their tags - How to easily trace from Bing imagery and add housenumbers (associatedStreet and Terracer plugins) - How to script JOSM with Python and use it for quality control on cycle node networks License change and remapping - How to put another kind of imagery than Bing in the background on JOSM, more specifically one which highlights all the objects that may be affected by the license change and which may disappear/go back to a previous version on the 1st of April 2012. Toerisme Vlaanderen semi-automated import of accomodation facilities Maybe its counterpart of the province of Namur (depending on the presence of the person involved with talking with them) - How do we go about this? Quality control (is an edit after the 'import' valid) and swiftly applying regular updates from upstream are important issues Maybe it won't be that informal, after all :-) Will STUK be OK, or would it be better to get a quieter room with a projector? I know of one, which is also nearer to the station of Leuven, but I would still have to go and ask whether it's available on Friday evening. Polyglot ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st
Sorry but Frederik and my numbers (odbl.poole.ch) are compatible (odbl.de naturally not, RTFM). Just because some areas look like a big red blob, doesn't mean that are lot of useful (ie non-imported) data is being lost, look at Spain for example. Simon Am 14.12.2011 02:12, schrieb Jo: The numbers come from Frederik's map and some areas really look dramatic. odbl.poole.ch http://odbl.poole.ch and http://odbl.de come to very optimistic conclusions. Possibly because they only consider the last contributor to an object or another metric which doesn't hold water. Jo 2011/12/14 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch mailto:si...@poole.ch David I'm not quite sure where you got your numbers from, but it is clear that in terms of outright deletions we are talking of less than 5%. See odbl.poole.ch http://odbl.poole.ch Simon David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com mailto:da...@frankieandshadow.com schrieb: On Tuesday, December 13, 2011, Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Critical mass is there, at a ratio of more than a 100/1 and that is of the people who had to speak out their opinion. That's not the point. Since not making a decision is the same as declining for the purposes of data survival, deleting a quarter to a third of the map seems to me to be the project committing suicide. It will improve no doubt as time goes on, but I was seriously expecting the threshold to be in the 90+% of data survival to proceed. Yes, the 100/1 means that only a tiny fraction of the red and orange is ideological, it's surely mostly about people who have moved on, in interests, email addresses or mortality who we'll just never hear from. If it were just their edits, I'd be much less concerned, but it's the way it kills everyone else afterwards. It's even more galling when they deleted the original data to make their edit, so they've effectively taken the earlier work away too. I'll certainly be contacting people now Frederick has provided an easy means to evaluate the data, but I'm not overly optimistic about people replying - I run a membership database and find maybe 10% of people change their email addresses each year, and half of those don't tell me, and that's when they've paid an annual sub to belong. Is anyone going to answer the question about the threshold? I'm not being rhetorical, I really would like to know. David -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail gesendet. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mails to undecided mappers (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
I suggest the OSM heat map http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/ for personalizing your message. I also tried looking for their nick on Google, because many people use the same nick on several services. Janko Mihelić 2011/12/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de David Earl wrote: When writing the mails, I put some effort into personalizing the mail for the recipient by looking at their user and edits page on osm.org. YMMV, Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mails to undecided mappers
On 14/12/2011 02:49, Tobias Knerr wrote: When writing the mails, I put some effort into personalizing the mail for the recipient by looking at their user and edits page on osm.org. Writing in the user's native language also helps a lot. When the user has no personal page on the wiki, looking at the locations of his edits and comments on his change sets may hint at his preferred language. Using that language will increase the probability of response - the user's undecision may just be caused by his lack of interest in reminders written in English... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions
I was looking at the map that showed contributions from those who hadn't agreed to the new terms. One section I found interesting since I knew I'd mapped it first from a GPS trace I'd made but looking through the history I noticed another name before mine who hadn't agreed to the new terms. I suspect that I'd extended some existing work to save reentering the highway tags etc. and the history on the existing work was carried forward to my new work. Could anyone confirm my hypothesis? Thanks John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector
Frederik Ramm frederik at remote.org writes: Hi, apologies if this is the 2nd or 3rd time you're reading this, I have posted to dev and legal-talk yesterday in the hope that any major bugs could be ironed out before I announce this to a wider audience. I have added a world-wide license change map to OSM Inspector: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=-1.80469lat=35.88371zoom=2 I’ve changed the ‘ODBL coverage’ link on wiki project pages to use your map instead of the less thorough Leipzig map. -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions
Yes. There are a large number of situations were depending on - sequence of edit operations - intermediate upload and generation of new object ids you will get different owners of objects. This is why it is highly likely that split and mergers will not be taken in to account in any automatic cleaning of the database on the switch over. Essentially we will have some symmetrical collateral damage. But obviously if you mapped the way, you can go back and fix the problem -now-. Simon Am 14.12.2011 13:31, schrieb john whelan: I was looking at the map that showed contributions from those who hadn't agreed to the new terms. One section I found interesting since I knew I'd mapped it first from a GPS trace I'd made but looking through the history I noticed another name before mine who hadn't agreed to the new terms. I suspect that I'd extended some existing work to save reentering the highway tags etc. and the history on the existing work was carried forward to my new work. Could anyone confirm my hypothesis? Thanks John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
Two requests to help us prioritize our work: When I receive e-mail via the OSM e-mail system, I also receive a message from my real e-mail account (my ISP) that a message has arrived at my OSM account. When the effort was made to contact all users who had not (as of that time) agreed to the new CT, was any record kept of the attempts that generated bounced messages (mail not deliverable, account no longer exists, etc.)? These mappers now are essentially unreachable, unless someone knows who is behind which mapper name. It would be helpful to know who can't be reached before deciding what data to try to re-map, and whom to try to contact, since some work is involved in doing either. If a record was not kept, it should be possible to generate one (only the undecideds need to be checked in this way). Of course, there is no guarantee that those whose messages don't bounce are in fact reachable, but the bounces would let us know which ones have such a low probability of being contacted that we can reasonably assume their data will disappear in the spring. Just flag them as not reachable via the OSM mail system and let active mappers act as they choose on the information. Also, we mappers need a definitive list/map/tool to identify features that, based on current CT acceptance, will disappear, revert, or remain intact this spring. Comments made yesterday indicate that OSM Inspector is not definitive; that the average mapper cannot determine a record's status without understanding a secret decloaking device; that Potlatch does not highlight everything that even the OSM Inspector designates as being at risk of removal or reversion (giving false positives and false negatives; I have identified one of each in the area I map); and that some other tools that have been shared do not look far enough back in a record's history. It would be very helpful, as soon as possible, to have a definitive tool which shows what stays, what goes when the license changes, and what is uncertain (because the pivotal mappers(s) has/have not yet said yes or no), and which updates as the undecided mappers are contacted or as objects are remapped and the originals are removed. It is obvious that such a tool has to be developed in order to target and remove the data. If it takes until April 1 to come up with the tool, then the deletions really should be postponed until a few months afterward (yes, on a fixed schedule) so that the rest of us have time to make effective use of the tool. Right now we are remapping and contacting in the dark. Bad customer service is We are changing things, you deal with it. Good customer service is We need to make some changes, we understand that this is disruptive, we want to make this as easy as possible for you, here is what we are doing to help you during the change, and although we definitely are going to make the change, we are open to suggestions about how to make the transition less onerous. I am hoping that the work that Mikal Maron mentioned to respond to comments made yesterday will lead to making better information available. Ed Hillsman ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
Am 14.12.2011 14:08, schrieb Hillsman, Edward: Two requests to help us prioritize our work: . Right now we are remapping and contacting in the dark. Bad customer service is We are changing things, you deal with it. Good customer service is We need to make some changes, we understand that this is disruptive, we want to make this as easy as possible for you, here is what we are doing to help you during the change, and although we definitely are going to make the change, we are open to suggestions about how to make the transition less onerous. I am hoping that the work that Mikal Maron mentioned to respond to comments made yesterday will lead to making better information available. There is no we and you, while at some time in the future the LWG may give its official seal of approval to whatever the rules are, it is up to the community to actually come up with that set of rules. And while we are not quite there yet, outside of some corner cases what we have on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/What_is_clean%3F seems to be very close. Frederiks tool and others are in any case very near to what will happen. BUT both decliners and non-responders can still accept the CTs so the actually underlying data is still in flux and it is up to -you- to decide what to remap and what not in your area. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
Edward Hillsman wrote: that Potlatch does not highlight everything that even the OSM Inspector designates as being at risk of removal or reversion (giving false positives and false negatives; I have identified one of each in the area I map) Potlatch 2 uses exactly the same source as OSM Inspector - Frederik's Quick History Service (http://wtfe.gryph.de/). The difference is only in the colour-coding: Potlatch 2 draws a distinction between those who have declined the CTs and those who have not responded yet, so that mappers can prioritise remapping the areas affected by the former, and contacting the latter. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/tools-for-the-transition-was-Editing-of-content-that-will-be-deleted-on-April-1st-tp7093456p7093516.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 14.12.2011 14:08, schrieb Hillsman, Edward: Two requests to help us prioritize our work: . Right now we are remapping and contacting in the dark. Bad customer service is We are changing things, you deal with it. Good customer service is We need to make some changes, we understand that this is disruptive, we want to make this as easy as possible for you, here is what we are doing to help you during the change, and although we definitely are going to make the change, we are open to suggestions about how to make the transition less onerous. I am hoping that the work that Mikal Maron mentioned to respond to comments made yesterday will lead to making better information available. There is no we and you, while at some time in the future the LWG may give its official seal of approval to whatever the rules are, it is up to the community to actually come up with that set of rules. Perhaps I'm not the only one that has been confused, but this is what I've discovered from the last few LWG minutes [1] and the wiki: * This wiki page will be the official list of rules for cleaning the database, but it is still under discussion: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/What_is_clean%3F * Richard Weait will draft sub-phases to get us to the April 1st cleaning; this will presumably include a date to have a solid list of rules in place I would hope that we can have a date for a solid set of rules at least three months before the database cleaning begins. -Josh [1]: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Licensing_Working_Group ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions
Doesn't make any difference to the CTs, but I've noticed but I'm not the first named author of a few ways which I'm 99.99% sure that I created: the ways with the ID 2232-2235. I still remember the surveying/editing session in which I created the ways. These were very early ways (spring 2006) so I'm guessing that recording the history of who created/edited ways only came in after that? However, ways with even lower IDs (e.g. 223) do have myself as original author. Curious as to why my involvement with the 223x ways appears to have been lost... Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Doesn't make any difference to the CTs, but I've noticed but I'm not the first named author of a few ways which I'm 99.99% sure that I created: the ways with the ID 2232-2235. I still remember the surveying/editing session in which I created the ways. These were very early ways (spring 2006) so I'm guessing that recording the history of who created/edited ways only came in after that? However, ways with even lower IDs (e.g. 223) do have myself as original author. Curious as to why my involvement with the 223x ways appears to have been lost... All history prior to 7th October 2007 was lost when the API was upgraded from 0.4 to 0.5. An email from that date confirms this[1]: 4. History cleared. History will continue to be written as before, but we have removed past history data from the database today. When accessing existing objects you can still see the person who last modified them (even if that modification was before the switch), but no details about any previous modifications. Everything that was not version 1 on 7th October 2007 has an incomplete history and ought to be considered to be unsafe. 80n [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018638.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions
Thank you, its nice to know these things. Fun stuff. Cheerio John On 14 December 2011 11:31, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Doesn't make any difference to the CTs, but I've noticed but I'm not the first named author of a few ways which I'm 99.99% sure that I created: the ways with the ID 2232-2235. I still remember the surveying/editing session in which I created the ways. These were very early ways (spring 2006) so I'm guessing that recording the history of who created/edited ways only came in after that? However, ways with even lower IDs (e.g. 223) do have myself as original author. Curious as to why my involvement with the 223x ways appears to have been lost... All history prior to 7th October 2007 was lost when the API was upgraded from 0.4 to 0.5. An email from that date confirms this[1]: 4. History cleared. History will continue to be written as before, but we have removed past history data from the database today. When accessing existing objects you can still see the person who last modified them (even if that modification was before the switch), but no details about any previous modifications. Everything that was not version 1 on 7th October 2007 has an incomplete history and ought to be considered to be unsafe. 80n [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018638.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
So essentially all data that existed on this date will need to be deleted since we can't be sure who entered or edited it or if they have agreed to the new license if the .odbl database is to be clean. Cheerio John On 14 December 2011 11:31, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Doesn't make any difference to the CTs, but I've noticed but I'm not the first named author of a few ways which I'm 99.99% sure that I created: the ways with the ID 2232-2235. I still remember the surveying/editing session in which I created the ways. These were very early ways (spring 2006) so I'm guessing that recording the history of who created/edited ways only came in after that? However, ways with even lower IDs (e.g. 223) do have myself as original author. Curious as to why my involvement with the 223x ways appears to have been lost... All history prior to 7th October 2007 was lost when the API was upgraded from 0.4 to 0.5. An email from that date confirms this[1]: 4. History cleared. History will continue to be written as before, but we have removed past history data from the database today. When accessing existing objects you can still see the person who last modified them (even if that modification was before the switch), but no details about any previous modifications. Everything that was not version 1 on 7th October 2007 has an incomplete history and ought to be considered to be unsafe. 80n [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018638.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: So essentially all data that existed on this date will need to be deleted since we can't be sure who entered or edited it or if they have agreed to the new license if the .odbl database is to be clean. That's quite a conclusion that you are jumping to there, John. Of responding accounts registered by then, more than 98.5% have accepted CT/ODbL. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
- Original Message - From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: So essentially all data that existed on this date will need to be deleted since we can't be sure who entered or edited it or if they have agreed to the new license if the .odbl database is to be clean. That's quite a conclusion that you are jumping to there, John. Of responding accounts registered by then, more than 98.5% have accepted CT/ODbL. Richard if you are saying that that conclusion is incorrect then could you tell us what will happen ? Regards David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)
The other thing that's needed is a way to mark an object as clean. For example, if a red mapper added name=Citgo to an existing gas station, and I verify that it's Citgo (and maybe add other tags such as address), how do I prevent the OSMF from reverting it? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
On 14-12-2011 19:32, Richard Weait wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM, john whelanjwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: So essentially all data that existed on this date will need to be deleted since we can't be sure who entered or edited it or if they have agreed to the new license if the .odbl database is to be clean. That's quite a conclusion that you are jumping to there, John. Of responding accounts registered by then, more than 98.5% have accepted CT/ODbL. Well, since all history of that data before API v0.5 is lost, and the oldest history known is of the last person editing it, you don't know who created it. Therefore you don't know if this data is created by someone who agrees to the CT and/or the license move. Isn't the conclusion then that that data should be deleted? Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
Maarten Deen wrote: Well, since all history of that data before API v0.5 is lost Hey hey hey. Slow down. Data before API 0.5 is _not_ lost. It is archived. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Who-mapped-it-first-with-ref-to-forth-coming-deletions-implication-tp7094472p7094769.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
On 14 December 2011 20:14, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 14-12-2011 19:32, Richard Weait wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM, john whelanjwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: So essentially all data that existed on this date will need to be deleted since we can't be sure who entered or edited it or if they have agreed to the new license if the .odbl database is to be clean. That's quite a conclusion that you are jumping to there, John. Of responding accounts registered by then, more than 98.5% have accepted CT/ODbL. Well, since all history of that data before API v0.5 is lost, and the oldest history known is of the last person editing it, you don't know who created it. Therefore you don't know if this data is created by someone who agrees to the CT and/or the license move. Isn't the conclusion then that that data should be deleted? The conclusion should probably be that it needs to be treated as if v1 was not ODbL compatible. With a clever enough algorithm this may not always be the same thing. However http://planet.osm.org/history/ contains daily diffs starting from 2004-07-01. But, it looks like only the last edit of each day is kept which means that there may be edits by other users in between these edits (?). Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
I didn't even know that GMM had introduced peer reviewed edits, apparently they did so a while ago. 'Review some contributions and get yours reviewed faster' is what it told me when I logged in. And now they overhauled the UI to make it that much easier to contribute. We're definitely losing (potential) mappers to GMM. I don't have to tell you that's a shame -- all that effort going into creating non-free data. But how do we divert some of that energy to OSM? http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2011/12/mapping-made-easier-with-new-google-map.html https://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_maps_opens_editing_process_to_everyone.php -- martijn van exel geospatial omnivore 1109 1st ave #2 salt lake city, ut 84103 801-550-5815 http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
On 14-12-2011 20:32, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: Well, since all history of that data before API v0.5 is lost Hey hey hey. Slow down. Data before API 0.5 is _not_ lost. It is archived. That is something different than what 80n said earlier, quoting a message from Frederik Ramm: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2011-December/061087.html An email from that date confirms this[1]: 4. History cleared. History will continue to be written as before, but we have removed past history data from the database today. When accessing existing objects you can still see the person who last modified them (even if that modification was before the switch), but no details about any previous modifications. [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018638.html So, which is it? Cleared and no details about any previous modifications or archived and earlier details available? You have to excuse the confusion, because these are conflicting messages. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Who mapped it first with ref to forth coming deletions - implication
Maarten Deen wrote: That is something different than what 80n said earlier 80n, not for the first time, is wrong. So, which is it? Cleared and no details about any previous modifications or archived and earlier details available? You have to excuse the confusion, because these are conflicting messages. We have the full history of every OSM object ever created. Post-0.5, the history is stored in the main database, as you know. The API 0.5 changeover involved a very significant change to the data model (we dropped the segment datatype, and changed the definition of a way to be an ordered list of nodes rather than an unordered collection of segments). It therefore wasn't possible to directly keep an equivalent object history _in_ _the_ _database_. Hence Frederik's message: we have removed past history data from the database today. However, it was, of course, archived, and is sitting on a server somewhere. I don't believe this data has yet been analysed or republished; and I'm sure that analysing it will not be a simple task; but no doubt finer minds than mine are thinking about it. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Who-mapped-it-first-with-ref-to-forth-coming-deletions-implication-tp7094472p7094981.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] JOSM error in downloading?
I recently updated JOSM to the latest tested (though it still has the sluggishness issues I reported a few months ago) and can no longer download from the Overpass API. When I try to download http://www.overpass-api.de/api/xapi?*[@meta][ref=*][highway=*][bbox=-82.7991486,28.1688752,-82.0520782,28.4819700] it tells me Cannot open URL because no suitable download task is available. But if I download the file and open it in JOSM, it works. Has something changed, or is this a bug? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data
On 12/14/2011 4:13 PM, Stefan de Konink wrote: Could you point on the wiki which problems will arise by not changing at all - or posing a future transition to a next version of the Creative Commons license? I've read through many discussions, and the only reasons I've seen for changing the license ASAP are based on the fear of someone ripping off our work and our being powerless to do anything. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
Martijn van Exel wrote: We're definitely losing (potential) mappers to GMM. I don't have to tell you that's a shame -- all that effort going into creating non-free data. But how do we divert some of that energy to OSM? Well, let's ask a Map Maker user: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=14666 I'm under the impression that a large part of Google's attractiveness is due to their *really* high-quality applications and services. We have nice maps, but they have a search function that works, routing, aerial imagery, the ability to make your own map overlays, official smartphone apps with vector rendering, and so on. For people who are primarily motivated by applications they can use today, rather than the potential for future applications, we're just not that attractive - at least as far as mainstream applications are concerned. Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote: Martijn van Exel wrote: We're definitely losing (potential) mappers to GMM. I don't have to tell you that's a shame -- all that effort going into creating non-free data. But how do we divert some of that energy to OSM? Well, let's ask a Map Maker user: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=14666 I'm under the impression that a large part of Google's attractiveness is due to their *really* high-quality applications and services. We have nice maps, but they have a search function that works, routing, aerial imagery, the ability to make your own map overlays, official smartphone apps with vector rendering, and so on. For people who are primarily motivated by applications they can use today, rather than the potential for future applications, we're just not that attractive - at least as far as mainstream applications are concerned. I think we'll see this start to change, and soon. All I can provide is anecdata, but I have been seeing a slow but consistent upward trend in new map clients asking specifically for OpenStreetMap cartography and mapping projects even if they don't know what that actually *means*, because they believe that they're about to be taken to the cleaners for their GMaps API usage. GMM is improving its story but they're also 100% on the hook for providing those high-quality applications and services. They can accept no help in this regard, except by appropriating the terminology of free and open data. -mike. michal migurski- m...@stamen.com 415.558.1610 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways
I will look at a single suburban roadway: Westwood Boulevard in the International Drive tourist area south of Orlando. This started out as a TIGER way: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/11197961/history 80n (orange) and kyrbyboy (red) have made some improvements to alignment, but have apparently not changed the tags on the ways. More recently, JuxTPosition (green) created a dual carriageway, including the moving of at least some of the older nodes, and I split the ways to add sidewalk tags and bus route relations. What this means is that, as far as I know, the tags on the ways were all added by green users. Some of the nodes have been created by orange or red users, but most were later moved by green users. Because of the splitting, out of the 28 ways that comprise Westwood, only http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23166942 has tainted history, even though all have orange or red users in their complete history (going back to the ways they were split from). 55 of the 189 nodes are also tainted, although only one - http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/250413743 - is still in the position an orange or red user placed it in. So what here will be reverted by the OSMF? Obviously node 250413743 needs to be replaced by another node in the same general location. But other than that, is everything tainted because it was split from a tainted way? Or is nothing else tainted because no data from the orange or red users remains? If the latter, do I need to do anything special to ensure that the OSMF does not delete it? If the former, exactly what needs to be remapped to prevent deletion? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways
Hi, On 12/15/2011 02:58 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: So what here will be reverted by the OSMF? Obviously node 250413743 needs to be replaced by another node in the same general location. But other than that, is everything tainted because it was split from a tainted way? Or is nothing else tainted because no data from the orange or red users remains? If the latter, do I need to do anything special to ensure that the OSMF does not delete it? If the former, exactly what needs to be remapped to prevent deletion? There are several aspects to this. One is the real legal situation (assuming that a legal truth exists - most lawyers will probably laugh at the assumption). The second is what OSMF believes the legal situation is, and what amount of risk they are willing to take. (We can never be absolutely totally clean because people might make absurd-sounding claims like that road is really a derived work of the pub I placed there... or so.) The third is what I believe OSMF to be likely to do, and what I therefore display on the OSM Inspector layer. Of course the Inspector layer is most useful if it resembles as closely as possible the future OSMF decision. It has been explained already but I'll repeat it - OSMF/LWG has not yet decided what they will do with regards to the finer points of complex object relicensing. This means that none of your questions above has an answer. And OSMF is not going to decide this behind closed doors without looking out; they'll take a cue or two from what we do. And they are not going to decide it within the next few days either so don't hold your breath. Personally I believe that complex situations like the one you describe above will have to be investigated by a community member - like you did -, and that person should (if possible) take the necessary steps to clean up the situation and then vouch for it (saying, effectively, these objects are OK, I've checked them, believe me). OSMF could then concentrate on producing some advice for the community members doing that kind of work, and making some spot checks to see if thy do it with the diligence required of the job. Ideally, those community members would not be the same people that proclaim the use of loop holes on the mailing lists ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:21 PM, pec...@gmail.com pec...@gmail.com wrote: 2011. gada 14. decembris 21:57 Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org rakstīja: I didn't even know that GMM had introduced peer reviewed edits, apparently they did so a while ago. 'Review some contributions and get yours reviewed faster' is what it told me when I logged in. And now they overhauled the UI to make it that much easier to contribute. We're definitely losing (potential) mappers to GMM. I don't have to tell you that's a shame -- all that effort going into creating non-free data. But how do we divert some of that energy to OSM? You have numbers to confirm these fears? I don't know a single living being who would map for Google. I don't, and I am not trying to approach this with scientific scrutiny. GMM is here, it's innovating, it's super user friendly, and it allows people to do pretty much the same things that we do here at OSM -- to a certain and in many ways very limited extent, that is. I'm willing to bet an OSM cheat mug on it - there's bound to be people slave-mapping for GMM that would contribute to OSM instead if 1) they knew about it or 2) it were easier to get started. We can improve things, for sure, but that's already happening. Peer review comes naturally, but if you wish you can create at least some mockups for similar service for OSM. Peer review is at the core of what OSM is, and yet its power can be leveraged in many more ways than we currently do. I know there's a lot of resistance to gamification (GMM has 'superstar mappers' I believe) but there I think we can learn a thing or two from online knowledge communities that leverage the undeniable fact that there's (local) experts who can 1) guide newcomers and 2) oversee the quality of the (local) data and contributions. It's just not trivial to implement. -- martijn van exel geospatial omnivore 1109 1st ave #2 salt lake city, ut 84103 801-550-5815 http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Friends
From: Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Friends One thing I have thought might not be too hard to code up and provide some use would be to have a Recent edits by my friends page that just accumulates recent edits by your friends onto one page and displays it with bboxes like the single user edit history page. Right now you can only see the changeset comments from the last edit your friends have made. To see more is at least 2 clicks for each friend. Yup, sounded cool and simple. Pull request made! https://github.com/mikelmaron/openstreetmap-website/commit/db497585b41a68278883ab8dbd3f2c56179b28a8 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways
On 12/14/2011 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: It has been explained already but I'll repeat it - OSMF/LWG has not yet decided what they will do with regards to the finer points of complex object relicensing. This means that none of your questions above has an answer. And OSMF is not going to decide this behind closed doors without looking out; they'll take a cue or two from what we do. And they are not going to decide it within the next few days either so don't hold your breath. So why have people been recommending for months that we remap tainted objects when we still don't know what needs to be remapped? This isn't a rare case, but happens frequently across the U.S. Maybe it's different in places where mappers have not been able to take advantage of road network imports, but most tainted roads I have seen have started out from TIGER. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
Tobias Knerr writes: For people who are primarily motivated by applications they can use today, rather than the potential for future applications, we're just not that attractive - at least as far as mainstream applications are concerned. OSMAnd. Offline vector maps. Google Maps can't touch that. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data
Nathan Edgars II writes: I've read through many discussions, and the only reasons I've seen for changing the license ASAP are based on the fear of someone ripping off our work and our being powerless to do anything. That is my understanding as well. I've been against relicensing from the very beginning. It's simply not possible for OSM to be ripped off, because OSM is not the data; it's the community. Currently, we are harming the community to preserve the data, which is exactly bass-ackwards. I think I'm going to say this once every six months or thereabouts. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways
Yeah, a healthy chunk of the interstates in Kansas are the same way. I didn't go quite as deep as Nathan but this way is a relevant example: http://osm.mapki.com/history/way.php?id=33576021 User moonwashed created this way by splitting it from a TIGER way. He made several more edits to it but the last 20 versions have been by agreeing users (including both NE2 and myself) and while that page doesn't show node position changes, I have verified that every single node has been moved since moonwashed last touched it. So in my mind there is no information left in that way that is attributable to the declining user. I would have absolutely no misgivings doing a straight copy/paste to replace that way with an identical duplicate. But I would rather not do so out of respect to the other CT-accepting users who have contributed to that object. Saying that it is up to the community to decide individual objects is nice but I don't think there is enough time for me to evaluate every tainted object in Kansas before April 1 and there sure as hell isn't enough of a community here to help me with such a thankless task. There are a few mappers in the area but if I asked them to deal with this kind of stuff, I'm pretty sure they would run away screaming. I doubt I can expect much outside help either since pretty much everyone is affected and will be working in their own area first. And as long as there is no official word from the foundation about exactly how this change will be technically executed, we can't really proceed in a meaningful way anyway except from trying to contact non-responsive users, which I am doing. So as much as I really don't really care about the license and am happy to relicense under ODbL and even think it might be a good move, I do have some serious doubts about the ambiguity of the process this late in the process... Toby On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/14/2011 10:25 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/15/2011 04:11 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: So why have people been recommending for months that we remap tainted objects when we still don't know what needs to be remapped? If you prefer to wait until the exact rules are laid out for you, that's your choice. Yes, I prefer only doing a make-work task once. Personally I'd rather make a few educated guesses and get to work now. By my educated reasoning, anything from one node to the entire road is tainted, so it's a little hard to make a guess. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Harming the community
It seems every six months or so, a new set of license troll discussions come up. It's the same people. I can name names if necessary, but I think the old timers mostly know who the trolls are by now. They suck energy from the lists, they suck energy from the projects. They criticize the process, they say moving forward is harming the community. They bitch, they moan, they are helpful, they throw up procedural roadblocks. And they get old timers involved, and newbies confused/scared, and I'm sick of it. OSMF- stop being wimps and start standing up for the project. Stop hiding behind procedure, and start working toward cohesion and momentum. Free discussion is important, but allowing a community to do its work is also important, and when the same trolls infect the lists over and over, it's time to say no, and to confront their nonsense with clear facts, clear communication, and clear action. I suggest that, for the immediate situation, a few things happen: 1. The LWG appoint a single person to speak for the LWG/OSMF on this matter. That one person can make definitive statements, and not be stiffled with committee talk. 2. The LWG put out clear guidelines on what's happening, when, and how. What data will be removed, how we can identify it, when it's going away, and how we can fix it. 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but inflammatory language and lies are not. I'm feeling quite frustrated. I care about this project and I'm needing to be able to be productive, and this stuff seriously detracts from being able to accomplish that. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community
How do I +1 a mailing list post?? On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: It seems every six months or so, a new set of license troll discussions come up. It's the same people. I can name names if necessary, but I think the old timers mostly know who the trolls are by now. They suck energy from the lists, they suck energy from the projects. They criticize the process, they say moving forward is harming the community. They bitch, they moan, they are helpful, they throw up procedural roadblocks. And they get old timers involved, and newbies confused/scared, and I'm sick of it. OSMF- stop being wimps and start standing up for the project. Stop hiding behind procedure, and start working toward cohesion and momentum. Free discussion is important, but allowing a community to do its work is also important, and when the same trolls infect the lists over and over, it's time to say no, and to confront their nonsense with clear facts, clear communication, and clear action. I suggest that, for the immediate situation, a few things happen: 1. The LWG appoint a single person to speak for the LWG/OSMF on this matter. That one person can make definitive statements, and not be stiffled with committee talk. 2. The LWG put out clear guidelines on what's happening, when, and how. What data will be removed, how we can identify it, when it's going away, and how we can fix it. 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but inflammatory language and lies are not. I'm feeling quite frustrated. I care about this project and I'm needing to be able to be productive, and this stuff seriously detracts from being able to accomplish that. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community
On 12/14/2011 11:56 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but inflammatory language and lies are not. Could you have made a more inflammatory post? (Well, sure, you could have, but it's a rhetorical question. Heal thyself.) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 23:56:01 -0500 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: It seems every six months or so, a new set of license troll discussions come up. It's the same people. I can name names if necessary, but I think the old timers mostly know who the trolls are by now. They suck energy from the lists, they suck energy from the projects. They criticize the process, they say moving forward is harming the community. They bitch, they moan, they are helpful, they throw up procedural roadblocks. And they get old timers involved, and newbies confused/scared, and I'm sick of it. OSMF- stop being wimps and start standing up for the project. Stop hiding behind procedure, and start working toward cohesion and momentum. Free discussion is important, but allowing a community to do its work is also important, and when the same trolls infect the lists over and over, it's time to say no, and to confront their nonsense with clear facts, clear communication, and clear action. I suggest that, for the immediate situation, a few things happen: 1. The LWG appoint a single person to speak for the LWG/OSMF on this matter. That one person can make definitive statements, and not be stiffled with committee talk. 2. The LWG put out clear guidelines on what's happening, when, and how. What data will be removed, how we can identify it, when it's going away, and how we can fix it. 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but inflammatory language and lies are not. I'm feeling quite frustrated. I care about this project and I'm needing to be able to be productive, and this stuff seriously detracts from being able to accomplish that. - Serge Well said mick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community
Serge Wroclawski writes: It seems every six months or so, a new set of license troll discussions come up. I wasn't trolling. You are. Stop it. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: OSMAnd. Offline vector maps. Google Maps can't touch that. +1 Especially with the OsmAnd update I got from the Android market a few days ago. Offline vector rendering was functional before. Now it's downright beautiful. On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:21 PM, pec...@gmail.com pec...@gmail.com wrote: 2011. gada 14. decembris 21:57 Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org rakstīja: We're definitely losing (potential) mappers to GMM. I don't have to tell you that's a shame -- all that effort going into creating non-free data. But how do we divert some of that energy to OSM? You have numbers to confirm these fears? I don't know a single living being who would map for Google. I don't, and I am not trying to approach this with scientific scrutiny. I can say that enough people in my city were interested in adding data to the map that they duplicated much of the detail that I have entered into OSM over the last 1.5 within about a month after GMM launched in the US. It was rather depressing to me personally. I'm convinced that it is mostly just a publicity problem. Everyone knows google. They truly are ubiquitous. OSM is lucky to get any kind of mention on slashdot. If google would put out a blog post and an ad campaign telling people about OSM, I'm pretty sure the API servers would instantly light on fire from the resulting load. When google says anything, millions of people hear it. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
The Google maps app, via a labs add on, allows you to download offline vector maps! Okay they are only 10sq mi each and you are limited to 10 of them but its still possible. Kev On Dec 15, 2011 3:39 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Tobias Knerr writes: For people who are primarily motivated by applications they can use today, rather than the potential for future applications, we're just not that attractive - at least as far as mainstream applications are concerned. OSMAnd. Offline vector maps. Google Maps can't touch that. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Map Maker gets a UI overhaul
Hi, On 12/15/2011 03:45 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote: innovating leveraged gamification (GMM has 'superstar mappers' I believe) leverage I think you're reading too much off the blurby stuff ;) Thing is: Google has a gazillion more $$$ than we do, and they can buy all of Peru to do UI work for them if they please. They can, if they so desire, buy millions of hardware devices and ship them across the world for mapping, or they can set up a helpdesk in India where every single GMM contributor gets personalised support around the clock. They can do all this and more, and trying to compete with them on such a level won't work. (Someone said we should aim to be #1 online map provider but if people were to request from us even a fraction of the tiles that Google serves we'd blow several fuses.) I think it is inevitable that there *will* be more GMM contributors than there are OSM contributors and it would be foolish to fight that (and foolish to even set oneself the goal). In the long run, at least if Google doesn't lose interest or produces major cock-ups, OSM *will not* be the easier to use collaborative map. It will have a very hard time to be as easy to use as Google, and even that would mean to continuously bind our resources by chasing them rather than doing something of our own design. I know it sounds old-school, and not at all hip and trendy, but the distinguishing factor between us and them is our free license and what you can do with our data as a result. The quirky; the unexpected uses; the interesting things that people try out if they get their hands on our data. It's no use running after Google. We need to get the message across that we're the free alternative, and people will have to accept that we're not as polished as Google are. We are the project for those that understand free and open. Those for whom ease of use is more important than the licensing of the result are not our clientele and we'll never be able to win them over, except by making them understand the importance of free and open. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] Tile server problemen
Hallo, Weet iemand wat er aan de hand is met de server http://tile.openstreetmap.nl vanaf zoom 12 worden de tiles op de achtergrond gerenderd. Alvast bedankt voor het kijken naar het probleem. Groeten, Peter ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Tile server problemen
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, Peter Peterse wrote: Weet iemand wat er aan de hand is met de server http://tile.openstreetmap.nl vanaf zoom 12 worden de tiles op de achtergrond gerenderd. Alvast bedankt voor het kijken naar het probleem. Ik kan alvast vertellen dat renderd niet meer draait. Stefan Hallo Stefan, bedankt, wie kan hier naar kijken. Enige tijd geleden was dit ook al het geval. Is het een onstabiel proces dat renderd? Peter ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Tile server problemen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-12-11 16:21, Peter Peterse schreef: bedankt, wie kan hier naar kijken. Enige tijd geleden was dit ook al het geval. Is het een onstabiel proces dat renderd? Mapnik lekt geheugen, en zover ik kon zien stond het al in een automatisch herstart script. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk7o4bwACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn39ugCffQNU07fxvC55xJtLqry2+8jS iPwAniDNu8k+ifd52RjetSOKhxNR+1TF =vDpo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Wat gaan we met Openbaar Vervoer data doen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Het onderwerp draagt deze hele e-mail. Zoals jullie inmiddels weten is er een bron van 'open data' dat van vervoerders afkomt, maar niet in een staat is van 'alwetend' en zeker fouten bevat. Wat zouden jullie het liefste willen, iets wat kan hinten op plekken waar nog geen haltes zijn in OpenStreetMap? Of iets wat haltes bijhoudt op basis van input van vervoerders? (Dus een automatisch proces.) openOV is zelf bezig met een halte beheer systeem. Ik kan me goed voorstellen dat we dat uitbreiden naar routes, je zou dan ook kunnen denken aan het semiautomatisch inladen van de routes. Maar is dat bijvoorbeeld nodig? En waarom zou je dat willen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk7o/jgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1WOACghs5NEooKssS5NsuuDY4bEjxC 9PUAnR0WwhFzQhZLXLXu327czOc5/DWV =kL+n -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] uitspraak rechtzaak NWB
de rechter staat vrijgave van het NWB toe en wijst niet alleen het spoedeisende belang af (dat was makkelijk geweest) maar legt ook uit waarom het inhoudelijk niet waarschijnlijk is dat het vrijgeven van het NWB verboden is: http://zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/ResultPage.aspx?snelzoeken=tsearchtype=ljnljn=BU8010 Nu afwachten onder welke licentie het NWB wordt vrijgegeven. Rechtstreekse import in OSM zou onzin zijn gezien de kwaliteit van OSM gemiddeld veel beter is. Wat ik wel wil doen is een applicatie maken die inzichtelijk maakt waar wij in OSM hele wijken of verbindingen missen en omgekeerd. Op de OSM kant kan ik me een WMS-onderlegger in JOSM voorstellen waar deze wegen initieel worden overgetrokken (bij gebrek aan beter) en van een tag hier moet nog iemand langs kunnen worden voorzien. RWS zal onze wegen vanwege licentie niet zomaar kunnen overnemen maar de melding dat er iets mist wel als aanleiding nemen om de informatie bij de wegbeheerde op te vragen. Zo kunnen we wederzijds van elkaar profiteren. Met vriendelijke groet, Dirk Bussche Senior Adviseur Geografische Toepassingen T +31 (0)570 666 830 ▪ E dbuss...@goudappel.nl (aanwezig op kantoor: maandag, dinsdag en woensdag) Goudappel Coffeng ▪ Snipperlingsdijk 4 ▪ 7417 BJ Deventer ▪ Postbus 161 ▪ 7400 AD Deventer ▪ The Netherlands ▪ www.goudappel.nl Goudappel Coffeng BV is gevestigd in Deventer, Den Haag, Eindhoven, Leeuwarden en Amsterdam __ Disclaimer De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren. De afzender sluit iedere aansprakelijkheid uit die voortvloeit uit elektronische verzending. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] uitspraak rechtzaak NWB
2011/12/15 dbuss...@goudappel.nl: de rechter staat vrijgave van het NWB toe en wijst niet alleen het spoedeisende belang af (dat was makkelijk geweest) maar legt ook uit waarom het inhoudelijk niet waarschijnlijk is dat het vrijgeven van het NWB verboden is: Dat is goed nieuws! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Bushaltes en GSM antennes
Collega's, Floris schreef: Stefan is niet akkoord met de CT en ik verwacht ook niet dat dat nog gaat gebeuren :) Onder andere door het importeren van data op z'n eigen account is dit waarschijnlijk niet eens een optie. Ik heb nog eens in een PM wat vragen aan Stefan gesteld. Hier mijn conclusie: 1) Volgens mij kan Stefan WEL instemmen met de nieuwe licentie. Natuurlijk zag hij liever dat het PD werd. Maar ja, life sucks, en ook hij kan niet altijd alles krijgen zoals hij graag zou willen. 2) Stefan heeft in het verleden enorm veel en op innovatieve manier data verzameld en ingebracht in OSM. Hij heeft deze gegevens met bronvermelding steeds met zijn eigen account gedaan. Hier heeft hij achteraf wel spijt van/ Toestemmen in de vraag van de Foundation zou een goedkeuring zijn over alle ingebrachte data. 3) Niet alle data van alle bronnen zijn compatibel met de nieuwe licentie. Zie hier het begin van Stefans Probleem. Oplossing voor deze impasse: 1) Stefan geeft een overzicht van zijn ChangeSets welke naar zijn mening NIET onder de nieuwe licentie kunnen/mogen vallen. 2) Stefan/anderen neemt contact op met de eigenaren van deze changesets om toestemming te geven voor het transformeren van deze data naar de nieuwe licentie. Ik ga er van uit dat ook deze organisaties in de afgelopen jaren op dit punt ontwikkelingen hebben meegemaakt. Niet helder is of hun licentie nog steeds de licentie wijziging van OSM in de weg staan. 3) De foundation zet zich actief in om op korte termijn resources te vinden om de overgebleven changesets uit de data te verwijderen. 4) Na verwijdering stemt Stefan als nog toe met de Licence Change. Voordelen: 1) Er wordt recht gedaan aan de licenties van betrokken externe dataleveranciers. 2) We behouden een enthousiaste mapper (Stefan) binnen boord. 3) We respecteren het werk van pioniers uit het verleden. Graag een aankondiging voor een volgende constructieve stap om dit punt uit de weg te helpen. Mvrgr Robert Elsenaar -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Floris Looijesteijn Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:50 PM To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] Bushaltes en GSM antennes Hoi allen en vooral Stefan, Ik heb de discussie op talk@osm over de licentieverandering weer flink aangezwengeld, dus laat ik dat hier nog eens dunnetjes over doen :) Inmiddels zijn er veel gebruikers akkoord gegaan [1], ik had nog niet eens gemerkt dat 3dshapes en AND dat inmiddels ook hebben gedaan. Super! Met de OSM inspector van Geofabrik [2] kun je makkelijk zien waar de probleemgevallen nu nog zitten. Bij mij in de buurt zijn dat voornamelijk bushaltes en gsm antennes, geïmporteerd op het account van Stefan. Stefan is niet akkoord met de CT en ik verwacht ook niet dat dat nog gaat gebeuren :) Onder andere door het importeren van data op z'n eigen account is dit waarschijnlijk niet eens een optie. Nu vroeg ik me af of die data wellicht nog ergens te verkrijgen is zodat we het opnieuw in kunnen lezen, en het ook meteen een update kunnen geven. Groet, Floris [1] http://odbl.de/netherlands.html [2] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl --- Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2012: Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_56SPAM=truepath=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202012\AntiSpam --- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On 10/12/11 21:11, Sam Couter wrote: Many urban residential roads have speed limits of 60 or maybe 70km/h. I think rural roads with moderately dense residential acre blocks and 80km/h speed limits are still residential, unless they're also the main route to a neighbouring town, in which case they're tertiary. This is my rule-of-thumb also. Another aspect is the classification applied by local councils for rate purposes. If we followed this, I think more rural unclassified roads would be tagged as residential. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Residential Roads
On 11/12/11 08:35, Sam Couter wrote: In the ACT 50km/h is the default if there are no signs. I know that's what the road signs say as you enter the ACT. It's also repeated on official ACT government web sites. But it's an over-simplification. The ACT version of the Australian Road Rules tells the real story. The default 50 km/h limit applies only in built-up areas. The default speed limit elsewhere in the ACT is 100 km/h. A built-up area is defined as: built-up area, in relation to a length of road, means an area in which either of the following is present for a distance of at least 500 metres or, if the length of road is shorter than 500 metres, for the whole road: (a) buildings, not over 100 metres apart, on land next to the road; (b) street lights not over 100 metres apart. See http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/2010-113/current/pdf/2010-113.pdf rule 25 and dictionary of terms. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
As time and opportunity arises, I've started re-entering rural roads where it's clear that the original is scheduled for deletion. I'm deleting the old way completely, and re-entering it from GPS data I'm gathering. JOSM now has a License Check plugin to identify potential deletions, bringing up the way's history and looking at the mapper's details shows whether the original ways (and significant edits) were mapped by somebody who's declined the new contributor terms. Similar functionality seems to be available in Potlatch. Are others doing this? Is there a better way of maintaining OSM's integrity given the situation we find ourselves in? John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
That's fine so long as you are not transferring any tags from the original way. See Frederik's comments to NE2 re this, on the osm-talk list. Mind you, you've got a lot to do in AU. Cheers Ross On 14/12/11 13:56, John Henderson wrote: As time and opportunity arises, I've started re-entering rural roads where it's clear that the original is scheduled for deletion. I'm deleting the old way completely, and re-entering it from GPS data I'm gathering. JOSM now has a License Check plugin to identify potential deletions, bringing up the way's history and looking at the mapper's details shows whether the original ways (and significant edits) were mapped by somebody who's declined the new contributor terms. Similar functionality seems to be available in Potlatch. Are others doing this? Is there a better way of maintaining OSM's integrity given the situation we find ourselves in? John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] another badly mapped junction
around -37.932622, 145.1560615 can somebody familiar with the area make this into a sensible junction? Frank ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
On 15/12/11 02:15, Ross Scanlon wrote: That's fine so long as you are not transferring any tags from the original way. Yes, and that's why I'm trying not to reuse any original nodes. I imagine a lot of corners and other detail is going to disappear from some ways which remain (as I interpret the influence of individual mappers on the cleansing process). I see it's perfectly feasible to cautiously remap from historical GPS traces. The caution relates to having local knowledge about realignments resulting from road works. Is source=survey the correct attribution for using others' GPS traces? It seems the most appropriate of the established values. Much of Australia's major highway network is going to be removed without such action. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
Hi John, For towns that I have completely suryeyed, I will be remapping roads, as necessary to ensure that my survey work is not lost to the project. These roads will be completely replaced by my original data, maybe with some help from Bing imagery where it will help improve the accuracy of my GPS traces. Other things (like power lines etc) will need to be remapped at some time. I'm not sure I can complete this by the cutover date but that is no great problem for a long term project. From memory, these towns include, but are not limited to. Canberra Queanbeyan Yass Murrumbateman Goulburn Marulan Gunning Bowning Binalong Harden Cootamnundra Junee Jugiong Tumut Cooma Batemans Bay Moruya Mogo Narooma Merimbula Eden Tuross Heads Hervey Bay Aldgate Striling Crafers Harndorf Mylor Durras Ulladulla Braidwood Bungandore Tarago Tin Can Bay Bega Bredbo Delegate Bombala Rainbow Beach Majors Creek Captain's Flat Michaelago Sutton Gundaroo Potato Point Bodalla Narracoorte Bridgewater Nelligan Bemboka Nimmitabel Cunningar Heathfield Picadilly Uradlia Summertown Yeppoon Coolooa Cove Malua Bay Broulee Beramgui Tathra Pambula Bibbenluke Talbingo Adelong ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
Hi. I think it's clear we need an automated way to remove non-new-ct-accepting edits from ways where v1 was by an acceptor. Even assuming the trace data is in OSM there is still an immense amount of work needed to cleanse these ways. - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
Problem with this is that you are breaching copyright. This is the same as what the user did with the data in Sydney and it was removed by the data working group. It's also what Frederik was discussing on the talk list in regards to NE2. You are not resolving the issue of the original data being provided by a non valid source. You can only do this if you remove the non compliant data and remap with totally new source, gps, bing, etc. Cheers Ross On 15/12/11 12:34, Ian Sergeant wrote: Certainly it is astoundingly clear to me. For a couple of objects, I've just copied the v1 object, deleted the current object, and reloaded into OSM with an attribution tag for the v1 author. It isn't too many clicks to do this in JOSM, but tidying up around the edges (linking the object) is a little time consuming. If there is no interest from anyone with db rights to do this, there would be potential to develop this method further via the API. Ian. On 15 December 2011 15:12, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com mailto:ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I think it's clear we need an automated way to remove non-new-ct-accepting edits from ways where v1 was by an acceptor. Even assuming the trace data is in OSM there is still an immense amount of work needed to cleanse these ways. - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
No I'm not. I think you may be misunderstanding what I am doing. If the v1 object author has agreed to the CTs, but the v2 author has not, I simply delete the object, load the v1 object directly, make my changes, link the object and attribute the v1 author using the attribution tag. No copyright breach. I'm only using CT compliant data, I'm not even looking at the non compliant object, and I'm attributing as is polite and required. Ian On Dec 15, 2011 5:16 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Re-entering data to avoid licensing failure
Only if v1 is from a non-acceptor. I assumed from Ian's post that v1 is from an acceptor. (Or have I read that wrong?) Quoting Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: Problem with this is that you are breaching copyright. Cheers Ross On 15/12/11 12:34, Ian Sergeant wrote: For a couple of objects, I've just copied the v1 object, deleted the current object, and reloaded into OSM with an attribution tag for the v1 author. Ian. On 15 December 2011 15:12, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com mailto:ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's clear we need an automated way to remove non-new-ct-accepting edits from ways where v1 was by an acceptor. - Ben Kelley. Mark P. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] Nutzung OpenData der Vermessungsverwaltung Bayern
Manuel Reimer Manuel.Spam at nurfuerspam.de writes: Mittlerweile habe ich Antwort erhalten. Die E-Mail hängt im Original an diesem Posting. Aus irgendeinem Grund hat gmane nicht nur mein Attachment sondern auch meine zweite Mail (hatte den Mailinhalt der Mail von der Vermessungsverwaltung in den Content der Mail gepackt) irgendwo verschluckt... Ich lade die Mail später auf Webspace und poste hier eine URL... Wer kann http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright editieren? Frage bleibt nach wie vor aktuell! Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS Tracks vereinfacht hochladen?
Wenn dein GPS Device intelligent loggen kann, dann mach es. Ein Punkt pro Sekunde ist meist vom Ergebnis deutlich schlechter wie ein intelligentes vermeiden zu vielen Punkte - vor allem da dein Device dann da die internen Qualitätsdaten noch vorhanden sind, Outlier rausschmeißen kann. Ausserdem braucht es auf einer Geraden nicht einen Punkt pro Sekunde, in Kurven wären evtl aber sogar 2 Punkte pro Sekunde besser (gibt aber nur sehr wenige PNA/PDA die ein kleineres Intervall als 1s aufnehmen können). Genauso macht natürlich auch 1 Punkt / Meter keinen Sinn. Gerade wer ein Garmin hat (weil weit verbreitet) errreicht mit Aufzeichnungsintervall automatisch / Datendichte am höchsten deutlich bessere Ergebnisse wie bei 1point/sec oder 1point/m. Dazu macht es auch Sinn am Anfang die ersten Punkte zu löschen - da es dauert bis der GPS Fix halbwegs stabil wird (Almanachdaten) , und natürlich auch vor dem hochladen den Track anschauen um evtl große Fehlerstellen (etwa Punktwolken oder großes Zickzack, oder noch schlimmer - eine Gerade zum Punkt des letzten ausschalten über lange Distanz) zu entfernen. On 13.12.2011 18:07, Manuel Reimer wrote: Hallo, ich logge generell einen Punkt pro Sekunde. Bisher lade ich das Resultat auch so bei OSM hoch. Gerade habe ich gesehen, dass gpsbabel auch Tracks vereinfachen kann. Sollte man Tracks vor dem Hochladen so bearbeiten oder werden unveränderte Tracks lieber gesehen? Ist es sogar sinnvoll die Tracks zu vereinfachen, um Speicherplatz zu sparen? Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Guten Tag zusammen! Ich habe drei Fragen an die OSM-Community: 1. Kann man eine Aussage darüber treffen, wie vollständig die Straßendaten für die Stadt Köln zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt sind? Mich interessiert vor allem, inwieweit alle Straßen grundsätzlich vorhanden sind. Eine aufs Prozent genaue Angabe benötige ich nicht, Nachvollziehbarkeit wäre aber von Vorteil. 2. Ich möchte zu einer gegebenen Position (Adresse oder Lat/Long) ermitteln, welche Straßen sich in einem bestimmten Umkreis (z.B. Radius=500m) befinden. Dabei soll es gleichgültig sein, ob die Straße vollständig oder nur teilweise im Umkreis liegt. Gibt es hierfür irgendwo eine beschriebene (oder in Code vorhandene) Lösung? Das Problem, das ich hier vor allem sehe, ist dass Straßen, wenn sie durch den Kreis führen, nicht zwangsläufig einen Knoten in dem Kreis haben müssen. Es genügt also nicht, die Knoten zu betrachten. 3. Wie finde ich in den OSM-Daten heraus, welche Straßen im Stadtgebiet von Köln liegen? Ich habe mir den OWM-Download für Köln von geofabrik.de angesehen. Der deckt offensichtlich weit mehr als nur die Stadt Köln ab - vermutlich den ganzen Regierungsbezirk. Wenn ich darin eine mir bekannte Straße Köln suche, finde ich viele Treffer außerhalb Kölns. Muss ich auch hierbei den Verlauf der Straßen im Verhältnis zum Stadtgrenzen-Polygon anschauen, oder lässt sich das anhand von Metadaten beantworten? Vielen Dank im Voraus! Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Hi. Beim Key weiß ichs nicht, beim value bin ich mir nicht sicher. Mir fielen die Öffnungszeiten etc. ein: Tu durch Th ersetzt = inhaltliche Änderung und Werk(?) Wr durch We ersetzt = Tippfehlerkorrektur und kein Werk(?) Bei den Tags könnte man überlegen, ob man solche Ähnlichkeiten testweise anderweitig markiert und dann überprüft, ob es sich um unterschiedliche Tags handelt oder nicht. Problematisch sind aber vermutlich vor allem sowas wie die Abkürzungen, die momentan im Bereich der Eisenbahn-Bremssysteme hier diskutiert werden. Gruß Peter Am 14.12.2011 00:22, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, On 12/13/2011 09:56 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Argh, Tomaten auf den Augen. Du hattest als Erstautor ein tag cusine gesetzt, und Ulf hat das auf cuisine verbessert! Ich hab mein was sind harmlose Aenderungen-Skript mal dahingehend ergaenzt, dass es simple Aenderungen an einem Key als harmlos einstuft. Ich bin aber nicht sicher, ob das tragfaehig ist, und habe es daher mal noch nicht fuer die grosse Karte eingeschaltet. Der hier diskutierte Node wuerde dadurch gelb statt orange: http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/node/315330552 Auch die emergency=fire_hydrant-Spielchen von JohnSmith werden hierdurch nicht mehr als wichtig bewertet: http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/node/775733979 Fallen Euch Beispiele ein, bei dem das Austauschen eines Keys ein echtes Werk sein koennte? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Wie steht es mit Objekten, die vom Benutzer 0 angelegt wurden (z.B. hier http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/way/5200472)? Dieser Benutzer wird ja als ct denier geführt. Gruß, Andreas On 13.12.2011 17:28, Frederik Ramm wrote: (...) Sieht mir nach einem Fehler aus. Solche Aenderungen sollten als banal erkannt und nicht gewertet werden. Der was ist banal-Algorithmus kann hier ausprobiert werden: http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/node/315330552 (...) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Verkehrsfluss-Analysen War: GPS Tracks vereinfacht hochladen?
Am 14.12.2011 08:22, schrieb Georg Feddern: Die von Martin angesprochenen bestimmten Anwendungsfälle erfordern allerdings auch unter entsprechenden Anwendungsfällen aufgezeichnete Tracks - meine Mapping-Praxis weicht dazu doch zu sehr vom Verkehrsfluss ab, mehr als ich war mal da bieten sie nicht an sinnvoller Information. Allein aus dem Grund lade ich sie auch als Privat hoch, damit sie nicht irrtümlich Verkehrsfluss-Analysen Gibt es anhand der hochgeladenen GPX Tracks Verkehrsfluss-Analysen? wenn ja wie werden denn die einzelnen Forstbewegungsmittel Bahn/bus/auto/motorrad/fahrrad/zur fuß getrennt? Gruß Tobi verfälschen. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Das dürfte wohl ein anonymer Mapper gewesen sein. Frederik hat eine Liste der Changesets solcher Benutzer bekommen (anonym natürlich) die OK sind und anscheinend auch solche die abgelehnt haben (nur Spekulation meinerseits). Simon Am 14.12.2011 10:56, schrieb Andreas Braunmiller: Wie steht es mit Objekten, die vom Benutzer 0 angelegt wurden (z.B. hier http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/way/5200472)? Dieser Benutzer wird ja als ct denier geführt. Gruß, Andreas On 13.12.2011 17:28, Frederik Ramm wrote: (...) Sieht mir nach einem Fehler aus. Solche Aenderungen sollten als banal erkannt und nicht gewertet werden. Der was ist banal-Algorithmus kann hier ausprobiert werden: http://wtfe.gryph.de/harmless/node/315330552 (...) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS Tracks vereinfacht hochladen?
Felix Hartmann extremecarver at gmail.com writes: Wenn dein GPS Device intelligent loggen kann, dann mach es. Kann es nicht. Gerade wer ein Garmin hat (weil weit verbreitet) errreicht mit Aufzeichnungsintervall automatisch / Datendichte am höchsten deutlich bessere Ergebnisse wie bei 1point/sec oder 1point/m. Ich verwende einen Wintec WBT-201 GPS-Logger. Allerdings wäre ein zweiter, etwas besserer, Logger kein Fehler. Wäre aber dann ein eigenes Thema. Dazu macht es auch Sinn am Anfang die ersten Punkte zu löschen - da es dauert bis der GPS Fix halbwegs stabil wird (Almanachdaten) , und natürlich auch vor dem hochladen den Track anschauen um evtl große Fehlerstellen (etwa Punktwolken oder großes Zickzack [...] Ich bearbeite die Tracks immer vor, bevor ich sie hochlade. Dazu gehört auch das Löschen von Punktwolken oder groben Ausreißern. Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo Marian, zu 1. Köln konkret. in meiner Straßenlistenauswertung habe ich leider nur Bonn und Leverkusen [1]. Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Wenn Du z.B. die Stadt Köln anschreiben würdest und eine Straßenliste bekommst, kann ich Dir die Straßenlistenabdeckung innerhalb eines Tages geben. zu 2. und 3. Die Abfragen mache ich in der Straßenlistenausertung über eine postgresql-Datenbank, in die ich einen Geofabrik OSM-Datenextrakt importiere. Für postgresql gibt es eine postgis Erweiterung. Darin sind dann jede Menge Funktionen enthalten, mit denen Deine Anfragen gelöst werden können. Du machst um Deine Koordinate einen Buffer mit Deiner gewünschten Größe und erhälst dann die Straßen. Die Abgrenzung auf das reine Stadtgebiet Kölns kannst Du auch vor dem DB-Import bereits z.b. mit dem Programm osmosis vornehmen. Aber insgesamt ist da schon etwas Aufwand notwendig. Grüße Dietmar aka okilimu [1] http://toolserver.org/~okilimu/listofstreets/Bundesrepublik+Deutschland/Nord rhein-Westfalen/Regierungsbezirk+Koeln/index.html -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Marian Steinbach [mailto:mar...@sendung.de] Gesendet am: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2011 09:32 An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden Guten Tag zusammen! Ich habe drei Fragen an die OSM-Community: 1. Kann man eine Aussage darüber treffen, wie vollständig die Straßendaten für die Stadt Köln zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt sind? Mich interessiert vor allem, inwieweit alle Straßen grundsätzlich vorhanden sind. Eine aufs Prozent genaue Angabe benötige ich nicht, Nachvollziehbarkeit wäre aber von Vorteil. 2. Ich möchte zu einer gegebenen Position (Adresse oder Lat/Long) ermitteln, welche Straßen sich in einem bestimmten Umkreis (z.B. Radius=500m) befinden. Dabei soll es gleichgültig sein, ob die Straße vollständig oder nur teilweise im Umkreis liegt. Gibt es hierfür irgendwo eine beschriebene (oder in Code vorhandene) Lösung? Das Problem, das ich hier vor allem sehe, ist dass Straßen, wenn sie durch den Kreis führen, nicht zwangsläufig einen Knoten in dem Kreis haben müssen. Es genügt also nicht, die Knoten zu betrachten. 3. Wie finde ich in den OSM-Daten heraus, welche Straßen im Stadtgebiet von Köln liegen? Ich habe mir den OWM-Download für Köln von geofabrik.de angesehen. Der deckt offensichtlich weit mehr als nur die Stadt Köln ab - vermutlich den ganzen Regierungsbezirk. Wenn ich darin eine mir bekannte Straße Köln suche, finde ich viele Treffer außerhalb Kölns. Muss ich auch hierbei den Verlauf der Straßen im Verhältnis zum Stadtgrenzen-Polygon anschauen, oder lässt sich das anhand von Metadaten beantworten? Vielen Dank im Voraus! Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo, Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Hat er dir damals nicht die Daten versprochen? Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt keine feine Art, da viele inklusive mir sehr viel Aufwand hatten, die Straßenlisten erstmal überhaupt von den Gemeinden zu bekommen und sie dann auch noch ein zu pflegen. Dass die Daten dabei irgendwann verloren gehen, kann nicht im Sinne des Erfinders gewesen sein. Liebe Grüße Benni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Am 14.12.2011 00:22, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Fallen Euch Beispiele ein, bei dem das Austauschen eines Keys ein echtes Werk sein koennte? Bei highway=* und andere main tags auf jeden Fall. Wenn z.B. highway=unclassified (vom Luftbild abgemalt) in highway=residential geändert wurde (weil inzwischen jemand Ortskenntnis hat), halte ich das schon für ein Werk. Andererseits sehe ich nicht ein, dass alle Edits nach einem nicht trivialen Edit eines Nichtzustimmers wegfallen sollen. Attribute eines Objektes sind imo grundsätzlich vom Objekt an sich abgeleitete Werke und keine von anderen Attributen des Objektes abgeleiteten Werke. Man muss also den Ersteller eines Attributes nicht um Einverständnis fragen, damit man ein weiteres Attribut dem Objekt hinzufügen darf, dessen Autor bereits zugestimmt hat. Beispiel: version 1: user1 (Zustimmer) erste Version higway=residental version 2: user2 (Ablehner) oneway=yes version 3: user3 (Zustimmer) name=Ortsstraße version 4: user4 (Zustimmer) surface=paved version 5: user5 (Zustimmer) width=6 version 6: user6 (Zustimmer) maxspeed=30 Ohne Zweifel ist Version 1 von user1 das Hauptwerk von dem alle anderen abgeleitet sind. Version 2: oneway=yes von user 2 ist ein abgeleitetes Werk von Version 1. Die Versionen 3 bis 6 sind alle samt abgeleitete Werke von Version 1 und nicht von Version 2!!! Bei der Umstellung muss also prinzipiell nur oneway=yes gelöscht werden. Anders sieht aus, wenn Punkte verschoben oder hinzugefügt wurden, oder die tags voneinander abhängen (oneway=yes und oneway:bicycle=no). Ich habe aber bisher keine Vorstellung, wie man das alles halbwegs allgemeingültig abbilden könnte. Gibt es in der Hinsicht schon Ideen? Gruß Burkhard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Hallo, On 12/14/11 11:17, Simon Poole wrote: Das dürfte wohl ein anonymer Mapper gewesen sein. Frederik hat eine Liste der Changesets solcher Benutzer bekommen (anonym natürlich) die OK sind und anscheinend auch solche die abgelehnt haben (nur Spekulation meinerseits). Nur die, die OK sind; alle anderen behandle ich einfach als abgelehnt. Es gibt aber ein Problem mit Benutzern, die erst in den letzten Monaten ihre Anonymitaet aufgegeben haben, die fehlen mir u.U.; muss ich noch dran arbeiten. Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] GPS Tracks vereinfacht hochladen?
Georg Feddern osm at bavarianmallet.de writes: Ich bereinige mit RouteConverter grundsätzlich auf 1 m Abstand, um die angesprochenen Punktwolken zu beseitigen. Punktewolken lösche ich manuell raus. Die von Martin angesprochenen bestimmten Anwendungsfälle erfordern allerdings auch unter entsprechenden Anwendungsfällen aufgezeichnete Tracks - meine Mapping-Praxis weicht dazu doch zu sehr vom Verkehrsfluss ab, mehr als ich war mal da bieten sie nicht an sinnvoller Information. Allein aus dem Grund lade ich sie auch als Privat hoch, damit sie nicht irrtümlich Verkehrsfluss-Analysen verfälschen. Schade eigentlich. Ich lade Tracks ganz bewusst als Identifizierbar hoch. Wenn es damit Probleme gibt, dann will ich auch, dass mir jemand dazu eine Nachricht schicken kann. Ich unterstelle einfach mal, dass die wenigsten Tracks sich für irgendwelche Auswertungen eignen. Die Tracks, die ich hochlade, sind allesamt speziell für den Zweck angefertigt worden, um damit die OSM zu verbessern oder zu erweitern. Es gibt von mir nicht einen einzigen Track, der durch eine normale Fahrt entstanden ist. Mit dem Auto logge ich zudem grundsätzlich garnicht. Nur mit dem GPS am Fahrradlenker. Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Beispiel: version 1: user1 (Zustimmer) erste Version higway=residental version 2: user2 (Ablehner) oneway=yes version 3: user3 (Zustimmer) name=Ortsstraße version 4: user4 (Zustimmer) surface=paved version 5: user5 (Zustimmer) width=6 version 6: user6 (Zustimmer) maxspeed=30 Ohne Zweifel ist Version 1 von user1 das Hauptwerk von dem alle anderen abgeleitet sind. Version 2: oneway=yes von user 2 ist ein abgeleitetes Werk von Version 1. Ich muss grad grinsen. Ob das wirklich ein Werk im juristischen Sinne darstellt wenn jemand zu einem Way ein oneyway=yes hinzufügt !? Aber gut, die Telekom durfte das magenta-T auch als Ihr Eigentum schützen lassen. ;-) Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Am 13.12.2011 16:35, schrieb Frederik Ramm: In einem Fall, in dem Nichtzustimmer A einen Way mit 50 Nodes anlegt und Zustimmer B den dann aufsplittet in zwei, wird der OSMI nur die eine Haelfte des Ways rot einmalen und die andere fuer sauber halten; in diesem Fall erkennt man aber an den Nodes, die ja dann alle rot sind, dass da etwas faul ist, und man wuerde vermutlich ohnehin den Way komplett neu erfassen. afaik wird die ID der einen Haelfte des Weges beibehalten und die andere Haelfte bekommt erst mal die ID -1 und beim Hochladen dann eine nagelneue ID. Die Punkte bleiben erst mal die alten. Wenn dann noch jemand alten Punkte ersetzt, gibt es keine Referenz mehr auf die ursprünglichen Autoren. Liege ich da richtig? Gruß Burkhard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Ich muss grad grinsen. Ob das wirklich ein Werk im juristischen Sinne darstellt wenn jemand zu einem Way ein oneyway=yes hinzufügt !? Aber gut, die Telekom durfte das magenta-T auch als Ihr Eigentum schützen lassen. ;-) Muss auch grinsen, wenn ich das schreibe. Komme mir schon vor, wie einer der Erbsen zählt :-) Aber die Diskussion um die Lizenzumstellung bewegt sich auf diesem Level an Detailliertheit. Das muss sie wahrscheinlich auch. Gruß Burkhard ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo Benni, ja, hat er versprochen, aber es kam dann nichts von ihm. Ich habe ihm 4 oder 5mal eine Mail geschrieben. Keine Antwort von ihm. Die Mailadresse ist wohl noch aktiv, er postet ab und zu damit und frühere hatte ich über diese auch Kontakt zu ihm. Danach habe ich die Sache mit einem OSM-ler per Mail besprochen und anschließend einen anderen OSM-ler angemailt, der Florian persönlich kennt. Der hat ihm eine Mail mit meinem (und dem von vielen anderen OSM-lern, hoffe ich mal ) Anliegen geschrieben, das war vor ca. 3 Wochen. Seitdem ist immer noch nichts passiert. Also wird das wohl auch nichts mehr. Viele Grüße Dietmar -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Benjamin Lebsanft [mailto:benja...@lebsanft.org] Gesendet am: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2011 11:33 An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden Hallo, Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Hat er dir damals nicht die Daten versprochen? Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt keine feine Art, da viele inklusive mir sehr viel Aufwand hatten, die Straßenlisten erstmal überhaupt von den Gemeinden zu bekommen und sie dann auch noch ein zu pflegen. Dass die Daten dabei irgendwann verloren gehen, kann nicht im Sinne des Erfinders gewesen sein. Liebe Grüße Benni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Erst mal Danke für die Antwort! Kommentare siehe inline. Am 14. Dezember 2011 11:25 schrieb Dietmar ostr...@diesei.de: Hallo Marian, zu 1. Köln konkret. in meiner Straßenlistenauswertung habe ich leider nur Bonn und Leverkusen [1]. Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Wenn Du z.B. die Stadt Köln anschreiben würdest und eine Straßenliste bekommst, kann ich Dir die Straßenlistenabdeckung innerhalb eines Tages geben. Heißt das, du wärst auch an dieser Liste interessiert? Das wäre ein Stück mehr Motivation, mich darum zu bemühen. zu 2. und 3. ... Die Abgrenzung auf das reine Stadtgebiet Kölns kannst Du auch vor dem DB-Import bereits z.b. mit dem Programm osmosis vornehmen. Danke für den Tipp zu osmosis! Inzwischen habe ich auch die Kreisgrenze (die mit der Stadtgrenze identisch sein sollte) unter relation id=62578 gefunden. Damit sollte ich in der Lage sein, die OSM-Daten auf den Kreis/die Stadt zu begrenzen. Die Postgres GEO-Funktionen werde ich mir wohl auch mal näher ansehen. Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Verkehrsfluss-Analysen War: GPS Tracks vereinfacht hochladen?
Tobias Hobmeier writes: Am 14.12.2011 08:22, schrieb Georg Feddern: Verkehrsfluss ab, mehr als ich war mal da bieten sie nicht an sinnvoller Information. Allein aus dem Grund lade ich sie auch als Privat hoch, damit sie nicht irrtümlich Verkehrsfluss-Analysen Vorsicht! Es gibt keine privaten Uploads. Alles was ihr hochladet kommt aus der API wieder raus. Das privat bedeutet nur, dass der GPS-Track keine Zeitstempel hat und nicht mit dem Benutzernamen verknüpft wird. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Visibility_of_GPS_traces Also wirklich nur das hochladen was andere auch brauchen können. Punktewolken weil der Logger im Restaurant beim Essen noch lief sollten nicht hochgeladen werden. Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo Marian, Marian Steinbach schrieb am: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2011 12:07 Heißt das, du wärst auch an dieser Liste interessiert? Das wäre ein Stück mehr Motivation, mich darum zu bemühen. Klar, immer her damit. Du kannst soviele Straßenlisten aus Deiner Gegend anbringen, wie Du willst, ich importiere sie alle ;). Ich finde, das die Straßenlistenabdeckung in OSM schon eine wichtige Sache ist. Danke für den Tipp zu osmosis! Gerne. Frag nach, wenn Du Probleme hast. Vielleicht gibt es OSM-ler, die Programme haben, damit Du ohne eigene DB die Auswertungen hinbekommst. Aber der Aufwand für die DB hält sich in Grenzen und damit bekommst Du viele Auswertemögichkeiten. Mit dem osmosis kannst Du auch die Daten in die postgres-DB bringen [1]. Die osmosis DB-Strukturen sind für Deine Auswertungen sinnvoller als das sonst auch verwendete osm2pgsql DB-Schema (Vergleich siehe [2]. Letzteres ist für Karten-rendern optimiert. Die Postgres GEO-Funktionen werde ich mir wohl auch mal näher ansehen. z.B. hier ein guter Anfang [3] und fragt einfach dann nochmal konkret nach. Viel Erfolg und Grüße Dietmar [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/Detailed_Usage [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Database_schema#Database_Schemas [3] http://postgis.org/documentation/manual-svn/reference.html ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Frederik Ramm writes: On 12/14/11 11:17, Simon Poole wrote: Das dürfte wohl ein anonymer Mapper gewesen sein. Frederik hat eine Liste der Changesets solcher Benutzer bekommen (anonym natürlich) die OK sind und anscheinend auch solche die abgelehnt haben (nur Spekulation meinerseits). Nur die, die OK sind; alle anderen behandle ich einfach als abgelehnt. Es gibt aber ein Problem mit Benutzern, die erst in den letzten Monaten ihre Anonymitaet aufgegeben haben, die fehlen mir u.U.; muss ich noch dran arbeiten. Könnte das nicht über die API abgebildet werden? Anonyme Ablehner und Nichtreagierer bleiben bei der uid=0. Alle anderen bekommen eine neue uid zugewiesen (eine für alle) . Damit könnten deutlich mehr Tools den wirklichen Status visualisieren. Ich mache ab und zu eine Statistik über den ODbL Status und habe so keine Möglichkeit die sauberen anonymen edits zu erkennen. Wäre es möglich eine Liste der node/way/relation IDs zu bekommen die anonym und sauber sind? Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Moin Ich schick Dir mal das poly-file von Köln, dann kannst Du Köln mit Osmosis ausschneiden. osmosis --read-xml file=koeln.osm --bp file=koeln.poly --write-xml file=koeln_stadt.osm -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Klaus PGP-Key: E7701DCF Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2011, 09:32 +0100 schrieb Marian Steinbach: Guten Tag zusammen! Ich habe drei Fragen an die OSM-Community: 1. Kann man eine Aussage darüber treffen, wie vollständig die Straßendaten für die Stadt Köln zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt sind? Mich interessiert vor allem, inwieweit alle Straßen grundsätzlich vorhanden sind. Eine aufs Prozent genaue Angabe benötige ich nicht, Nachvollziehbarkeit wäre aber von Vorteil. 2. Ich möchte zu einer gegebenen Position (Adresse oder Lat/Long) ermitteln, welche Straßen sich in einem bestimmten Umkreis (z.B. Radius=500m) befinden. Dabei soll es gleichgültig sein, ob die Straße vollständig oder nur teilweise im Umkreis liegt. Gibt es hierfür irgendwo eine beschriebene (oder in Code vorhandene) Lösung? Das Problem, das ich hier vor allem sehe, ist dass Straßen, wenn sie durch den Kreis führen, nicht zwangsläufig einen Knoten in dem Kreis haben müssen. Es genügt also nicht, die Knoten zu betrachten. 3. Wie finde ich in den OSM-Daten heraus, welche Straßen im Stadtgebiet von Köln liegen? Ich habe mir den OWM-Download für Köln von geofabrik.de angesehen. Der deckt offensichtlich weit mehr als nur die Stadt Köln ab - vermutlich den ganzen Regierungsbezirk. Wenn ich darin eine mir bekannte Straße Köln suche, finde ich viele Treffer außerhalb Kölns. Muss ich auch hierbei den Verlauf der Straßen im Verhältnis zum Stadtgrenzen-Polygon anschauen, oder lässt sich das anhand von Metadaten beantworten? Vielen Dank im Voraus! Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Am 14. Dezember 2011 12:43 schrieb Klaus-Hermann Otto Stanislaus Plöger k.ploe...@gastradata.de: ** Moin Ich schick Dir mal das poly-file von Köln, dann kannst Du Köln mit Osmosis ausschneiden. osmosis --read-xml file=koeln.osm --bp file=koeln.poly --write-xml file=koeln_stadt.osm Ja sehr gerne! Dann spare ich mir die Mühe dafür schon mal. Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Am 14.12.2011 11:43, schrieb Chris66: Ich muss grad grinsen. Ob das wirklich ein Werk im juristischen Sinne darstellt wenn jemand zu einem Way ein oneyway=yes hinzufügt !? Aber gut, die Telekom durfte das magenta-T auch als Ihr Eigentum schützen lassen. ;-) Der Scherz ist mir schon klar, aber nur so das keine Missverständnisse aufkommen: Markenrecht (magenta-T) und Urheberrecht sind 2 verschiedene paar Schuhe. Und auch die Voraussetzungen für den Schutz sind ganz anders gelagert. Simon ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector
Stephan ... habe die Lösung schon vor Wochen vorgeschlagen (als die ganze Problematik überhaupt hochkam). Die Begeisterung hielt sich (sehr) in Grenzen. Die Liste der changesets die OK sind findest du hier: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/users_agreed/ Simon Am 14.12.2011 12:37, schrieb Stephan Knauss: Frederik Ramm writes: On 12/14/11 11:17, Simon Poole wrote: Das dürfte wohl ein anonymer Mapper gewesen sein. Frederik hat eine Liste der Changesets solcher Benutzer bekommen (anonym natürlich) die OK sind und anscheinend auch solche die abgelehnt haben (nur Spekulation meinerseits). Nur die, die OK sind; alle anderen behandle ich einfach als abgelehnt. Es gibt aber ein Problem mit Benutzern, die erst in den letzten Monaten ihre Anonymitaet aufgegeben haben, die fehlen mir u.U.; muss ich noch dran arbeiten. Könnte das nicht über die API abgebildet werden? Anonyme Ablehner und Nichtreagierer bleiben bei der uid=0. Alle anderen bekommen eine neue uid zugewiesen (eine für alle) . Damit könnten deutlich mehr Tools den wirklichen Status visualisieren. Ich mache ab und zu eine Statistik über den ODbL Status und habe so keine Möglichkeit die sauberen anonymen edits zu erkennen. Wäre es möglich eine Liste der node/way/relation IDs zu bekommen die anonym und sauber sind? Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hi, On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:32:41AM +0100, Benjamin Lebsanft wrote: Hallo, Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Hat er dir damals nicht die Daten versprochen? Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt keine feine Art, da viele inklusive mir sehr viel Aufwand hatten, die Straßenlisten erstmal überhaupt von den Gemeinden zu bekommen und sie dann auch noch ein zu pflegen. Dass die Daten dabei irgendwann verloren gehen, kann nicht im Sinne des Erfinders gewesen sein. Es gibt da eine gewisse vielschichtigkeit - Ich musste das zeugs Abbauen weil mein damaliger Arbeitgeber die Telefonica den Standort Verl geschlossen hat und wir mit ~400 Leuten auf der Straße gestanden haben. Seit dem ist mein ganzer Krams eingelagert weil das etwa 3 19 Schraenke voll mit Technik war fuer dich ich aktuell kein Platz habe. Dazu kommt das ich dieses Jahr auch noch umgezogen bin und reichlich zu tun hatte das Haus bewohnbar zu machen und den Krams rueberzutragen. Dazu kommt noch das ich die Lizenzentscheidungen von OSM gelinde gesagt zum Kotzen finde - OSM vom Gedanken ist nach wie vor ein super projekt nur leider hapert es in meinen Augen massiv an der Basisdemokratie. Es scheint eine kleine nicht naeher definierbare Gruppe innerhalb OSM bzw der OSMF zu geben die einfach entschieden hat das ein Lizenzwechsel noetig ist und die auch noch gleich die neue Lizenz in Beton gegossen hat. Das hat dazu gefuehrt das ich seit dem mein Kram abgebaut ist micht nicht weiter mit OSM beschaeftigt habe, bzw einfach mein Interesse daran verloren habe. Das war ja bei dem angestrebten Lizenzwechsel auch ein bewusst in Kauf genommener Kollateralschaden. Jetzt bin ich bei einer neuen Firma und wir haben in den Letzten Monaten wieder ein neues Netz gebaut in dem sicherlich auch wieder Platz waere fuer meinen kram - Aber wofuer soll ich das wieder aufbauen? Die OSMF hat gesagt das meine contributions unter der CC-BY-SA contributions 2ter Klasse sind und man sie nicht mehr moechte. Ich denke aus den paar Zeilen ergibt sich warum hier nichts mehr passiert ist - und ich denke mein Frust ueber den OSM Lizenzwechsel kommt darin auch durch ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo Flo, Ich denke aus den paar Zeilen ergibt sich warum hier nichts mehr passiert ist - und ich denke mein Frust ueber den OSM Lizenzwechsel kommt darin auch durch ... Ich kann deinen Unmut verstehen. Ich denke auch, dass niemand von dir verlangt, die ganzen Services wieder laufen zu lassen. Was wichtig wäre, wären eben die Straßenlisten. Kannst du die Platte oder Datenbank nicht mal auslesen wenn du Zeit hast und die Daten dann Dietmar zukommen lassen? Das wäre völlig ausreichend so wie ich das verstanden habe. Liebe Grüße Benni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Moin Marian Ich hoffe, Du kennst Dich auf der Konsole aus. osmfilter stadt-koeln.osm --keep=highway=primary =secondary =tertiary =residental =unclassified =road =living-street strassen-koeln.osm osmconvert strassen-koeln.osm --drop-nodes koeln_ways.osm grep 'tag k=name' koeln_ways.osm str.txt sort -u str.txt str-nam-koeln.txt Danach hast Du in str-nam-koeln.txt eine sortierte Liste mit den in OSM vorhandenen Straßennamen. Auf der Seite der Stadt Köln findest Du eine Liste der Straßen. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Klaus PGP-Key: E7701DCF Am Mittwoch, den 14.12.2011, 09:32 +0100 schrieb Marian Steinbach: Guten Tag zusammen! Ich habe drei Fragen an die OSM-Community: 1. Kann man eine Aussage darüber treffen, wie vollständig die Straßendaten für die Stadt Köln zum aktuellen Zeitpunkt sind? Mich interessiert vor allem, inwieweit alle Straßen grundsätzlich vorhanden sind. Eine aufs Prozent genaue Angabe benötige ich nicht, Nachvollziehbarkeit wäre aber von Vorteil. 2. Ich möchte zu einer gegebenen Position (Adresse oder Lat/Long) ermitteln, welche Straßen sich in einem bestimmten Umkreis (z.B. Radius=500m) befinden. Dabei soll es gleichgültig sein, ob die Straße vollständig oder nur teilweise im Umkreis liegt. Gibt es hierfür irgendwo eine beschriebene (oder in Code vorhandene) Lösung? Das Problem, das ich hier vor allem sehe, ist dass Straßen, wenn sie durch den Kreis führen, nicht zwangsläufig einen Knoten in dem Kreis haben müssen. Es genügt also nicht, die Knoten zu betrachten. 3. Wie finde ich in den OSM-Daten heraus, welche Straßen im Stadtgebiet von Köln liegen? Ich habe mir den OWM-Download für Köln von geofabrik.de angesehen. Der deckt offensichtlich weit mehr als nur die Stadt Köln ab - vermutlich den ganzen Regierungsbezirk. Wenn ich darin eine mir bekannte Straße Köln suche, finde ich viele Treffer außerhalb Kölns. Muss ich auch hierbei den Verlauf der Straßen im Verhältnis zum Stadtgrenzen-Polygon anschauen, oder lässt sich das anhand von Metadaten beantworten? Vielen Dank im Voraus! Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Am 14. Dezember 2011 14:59 schrieb Klaus-Hermann Otto Stanislaus Plöger k.ploe...@gastradata.de: Moin Marian Ich hoffe, Du kennst Dich auf der Konsole aus. Ja, kein Problem. osmfilter stadt-koeln.osm --keep=highway=primary =secondary =tertiary =residental =unclassified =road =living-street strassen-koeln.osm osmconvert strassen-koeln.osm --drop-nodes koeln_ways.osm grep 'tag k=name' koeln_ways.osm str.txt sort -u str.txt str-nam-koeln.txt Danach hast Du in str-nam-koeln.txt eine sortierte Liste mit den in OSM vorhandenen Straßennamen. Auf der Seite der Stadt Köln findest Du eine Liste der Straßen. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Klaus Danke für die explizite Hilfe! Marian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden
Hallo Florian, ich freue mich, dass Du jetzt hier Stellung nimmst! Auch ich kann Deinen Unmut und Unwillen zur ODBL-Lizenz verstehen, das ist jedermanns eigene Sache. Viel wichtiger: viele OSM-ler haben ihre Straßenlisten eingestellt und vor allem aktiv gepflegt, so auch ich. So habe ich z.B. auch nur noch lokal die Ursprungslisten, aber nicht eingepflegte Änderungen. Du behinderst nicht das OSMF-Gremium oder sonstwelche höheren OSM-Mächte, sondern einzelne OSM-ler, die sich in ihrem lokalen Umfeld für eine ordentliche Straßenabdeckung. Ich fände es toll, wenn Du Dir die Zeit nehmen würdest, mir die Straßenlisten zuzusenden, damit ich Deine großartige Arbeit einigermaßen fortsetzen kann. Viele Grüße Dietmar aka okilimu -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Florian Lohoff [mailto:f...@zz.de] Gesendet am: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2011 14:49 An: Benjamin Lebsanft Cc: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de]Datenqualität Köln, Straßen im Umkreis finden, Straßen in Stadtgebiet finden Hi, On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:32:41AM +0100, Benjamin Lebsanft wrote: Hallo, Der frühere Straßenlistenauswerter, Florian Lohoff, hatte alle Gemeinden und Städte NRWs, hat mir die Daten aber leider nicht übergeben, obwohl von ihm und anderen für OSM zusammengetragen. Hat er dir damals nicht die Daten versprochen? Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt keine feine Art, da viele inklusive mir sehr viel Aufwand hatten, die Straßenlisten erstmal überhaupt von den Gemeinden zu bekommen und sie dann auch noch ein zu pflegen. Dass die Daten dabei irgendwann verloren gehen, kann nicht im Sinne des Erfinders gewesen sein. Es gibt da eine gewisse vielschichtigkeit - Ich musste das zeugs Abbauen weil mein damaliger Arbeitgeber die Telefonica den Standort Verl geschlossen hat und wir mit ~400 Leuten auf der Straße gestanden haben. Seit dem ist mein ganzer Krams eingelagert weil das etwa 3 19 Schraenke voll mit Technik war fuer dich ich aktuell kein Platz habe. Dazu kommt das ich dieses Jahr auch noch umgezogen bin und reichlich zu tun hatte das Haus bewohnbar zu machen und den Krams rueberzutragen. Dazu kommt noch das ich die Lizenzentscheidungen von OSM gelinde gesagt zum Kotzen finde - OSM vom Gedanken ist nach wie vor ein super projekt nur leider hapert es in meinen Augen massiv an der Basisdemokratie. Es scheint eine kleine nicht naeher definierbare Gruppe innerhalb OSM bzw der OSMF zu geben die einfach entschieden hat das ein Lizenzwechsel noetig ist und die auch noch gleich die neue Lizenz in Beton gegossen hat. Das hat dazu gefuehrt das ich seit dem mein Kram abgebaut ist micht nicht weiter mit OSM beschaeftigt habe, bzw einfach mein Interesse daran verloren habe. Das war ja bei dem angestrebten Lizenzwechsel auch ein bewusst in Kauf genommener Kollateralschaden. Jetzt bin ich bei einer neuen Firma und wir haben in den Letzten Monaten wieder ein neues Netz gebaut in dem sicherlich auch wieder Platz waere fuer meinen kram - Aber wofuer soll ich das wieder aufbauen? Die OSMF hat gesagt das meine contributions unter der CC-BY-SA contributions 2ter Klasse sind und man sie nicht mehr moechte. Ich denke aus den paar Zeilen ergibt sich warum hier nichts mehr passiert ist - und ich denke mein Frust ueber den OSM Lizenzwechsel kommt darin auch durch ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
