[Talk-hr] Sobe
Kako tagirati sobe? Vidio sam da postoji tag za hotel, hostel, apartman i bedbreakfast, ali nisam vidio tag za sobe (bedbreakfast bez doručka :D; sa ili bez zasebnog wc-a). Svaka preporuka je dobrodošla. -- Tomislav Parčina ime.prez...@gmail.com ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Collective database
Thanks, Henk! Kirill On 07.06.2011 4:37, Henk Hoff wrote: Hi Kirill, If you want to clarify as deep as possible you might also want to check with OpenDataCommons (ODC), the authors of the license. Their mailinglist can be found here: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/odc-discuss cheers, Henk Op 06-06-11 13:46, Kirill Bestoujev schreef: Frederik, thanks for the reply. Do we have somewhere a more detailed description of collective database relating to OSM situation? May be some lawyers opinion or something else? Previously we were looking at the situation in a different way and suddenly understood that our positions is not very clear, so we would like to clarify the situation as deep as possible. Kirill On 06.06.2011 15:40, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 06/06/11 12:56, Kirill Bestoujev wrote: The resulting map (a single file) contains data from both sources. Can this resulting map (which is a database by its inside structure) treated as a collective database? I believe so. In my opinion, a derived database would result if you were to mix other data with OSM data in a way that actually looks at the OSM data - for example, if you have an OSM database of streets, and then add to that streets from another dataset but only where OSM had nothing. That would be a derived database. But if you have two datasets that live side-by-side in the same physical database, I would say that is a collective database. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Frederik Ramm frederik@... writes: 3. OSMF to choose a new license that is free and open, present it to OSM community for vote, and get 2/3 of active mappers to agree with the new license. This is the only bit that is new, and the 2/3 of mappers hurdle can hardly be called allow the board to tweak the license. The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Of course the OSMF would never do anything like that... -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Hi, On 06/07/11 10:35, Ed Avis wrote: The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Yes, and you can have a happy and thriving project ever after, with your two contributors. OSM is first a community, and second the data. If you are only after the data and don't mind losing the community then there are other, easier ways; all morally more than questionable but legally defendable. The license change, however, is not driven by the idea that OSMF is the enemy. If OSMF were (the enemy) then we would have a whole lot of different problems. The license change is mainly driven by the idea of making share-alike work better, i.e. the enemy are those who would want to circumvent that. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On Tuesday, 7 June 2011, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote A lot of thought and consultation went into the proposed licence and polls were taken to back up the conclusions. Of course, the fact that the process took years has led to plenty of mappers who can claim not to have been asked. They've all been asked now, though, and the results speak for themselves. - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence Indeed. Asking people seems like an excellent way to address your no vote concern. - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Such an approach could possibly work, albeit at the cost of losing the community if the community held the process to be unfair. The fact is, though, that people who said no have not yet been blocked from contributing and the 2/3 majority has already been reached. The wrong kind of majority, perhaps? I'm reminded of an argument I was drawn into at the Munich Oktoberfest last year. Smoking is now banned indoors in Bavaria, and one chap, who claimed to be a lawyer, was intent on having a smoke regardless. He considered the law undemocratic. It had been brought in by a referendum forced on the government by a citizen's petition. The referendum was carried. This guy reasoned that lots of smokers abstained from voting because the result was a foregone conclusion, therefore a non-democratic result. How shall we define democracy in OSM? I'm heavily drawn to a model where the course of action endorsed by 99% of those voting can be deemed legitimate. Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On 7 June 2011 09:35, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Frederik Ramm frederik@... writes: 3. OSMF to choose a new license that is free and open, present it to OSM community for vote, and get 2/3 of active mappers to agree with the new license. This is the only bit that is new, and the 2/3 of mappers hurdle can hardly be called allow the board to tweak the license. The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Of course the OSMF would never do anything like that... Reality check... So to steal all our precious data and kick the majority of the contributors the stupid evil OSMF you propose would have to shut down people contributing and joining OSM for 9 MONTHS before they could run such a rigged system. The sysadmin team and community would have long jumped ship and started another project. Additionally the door would be open to taking legal action against said stupid evil OSMF and their data would be tainted. Grant Part of OSM Sysadmin Team. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Grant Slater openstreetmap@... writes: - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Reality check... So to steal all our precious data and kick the majority of the contributors the stupid evil OSMF you propose would have to shut down people contributing and joining OSM for 9 MONTHS before they could run such a rigged system. You're right, it is a fanciful and unrealistic example, at least from the point of view of keeping a running OSM project with contributors. It would be a way to get a static copy of the map under any terms wanted. However, what I hope people realize is that these 'evil conspiracy theory' arguments are the same ones used to assert that CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, any company could just copy it, and so on, despite not a shred of evidence that this has happened. I wish people would apply a more realistic perspective and 'assume good faith' a little bit more in these matters too. All I intended to demonstrate is that no amount of legalese and boilerplate in the licence or contributor terms will block out all possible abuses, so we should lighten up a bit. But you're right and I apologize for the unwarranted snarkiness. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Grant Slater openstreetmap@... writes: - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. Reality check... So to steal all our precious data and kick the majority of the contributors the stupid evil OSMF you propose would have to shut down people contributing and joining OSM for 9 MONTHS before they could run such a rigged system. You're right, it is a fanciful and unrealistic example, at least from the point of view of keeping a running OSM project with contributors. It would be a way to get a static copy of the map under any terms wanted. However, what I hope people realize is that these 'evil conspiracy theory' arguments are the same ones used to assert that CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, any company could just copy it, and so on, despite not a shred of evidence that this has happened. funny thing is, i don't see these 'evil conspiracy theory' arguments coming from lawyers, whereas i've heard the 'CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data' argument coming not only from lawyers, but also from Creative Commons itself! I wish people would apply a more realistic perspective and 'assume good faith' a little bit more in these matters too. as do i. everyone serving on OSMF working groups, including LWG, cares deeply about the state and future of OSM, and they spend a great deal of their time trying to ensure that future. (small plug for the OSMF workshop, Sunday 12th - come along and chat with the board members and other interested OSMF members [1]) All I intended to demonstrate is that no amount of legalese and boilerplate in the licence or contributor terms will block out all possible abuses, so we should lighten up a bit. you're absolutely right. no matter what the license we have, or the terms that are offered to contributors, there will always be people and companies using the data without complying with the license, or contributors (possibly companies) uploading data which can't be safely used as part of OSM. i do believe that the new license and contributor terms better define what is acceptable, and that if/when it becomes necessary to take action in the future, we'll be in a better place. cheers, matt [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Board_Meeting_June_2011 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Matt Amos zerebubuth@... writes: i've heard the 'CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data' argument coming not only from lawyers, but also from Creative Commons itself! I would be interested to read that. My understanding is that Creative Commons have affirmed what has demonstrably been the case all along - that CC-BY-SA certainly can be used for data, as OSM is doing now. They noted that it would not magically extend copyright to things not covered by copyright. That is quite true, but it does not mean that map data is not covered by copyright. If we have a legal opinion stating that, it would be wonderful to publish it now and clean up the whole mess. (It would also greatly help with people using external data sources, if we knew that copyright does not apply.) -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On 07/06/11 12:37, Ed Avis wrote: Matt Amos zerebubuth@... writes: i've heard the 'CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data' argument coming not only from lawyers, but also from Creative Commons itself! I would be interested to read that. Science Commons certainly used to say that the licences *shouldn't* be used for data. My understanding is that Creative Commons have affirmed what has demonstrably been the case all along - that CC-BY-SA certainly can be used for data, as OSM is doing now. They are going to look at improving use of the licences for data in the next revision. BY-SA can indeed be used for data(base) copyright to the extent that you can claim copyright on data(bases). And that's the problem. Copyright in this area is uneven internationally, irregular even within jurisdictions like the US, and not the only restriction on the use of data(bases). They noted that it would not magically extend copyright to things not covered by copyright. Such as data(bases), depending on where you live and which cases you look at. That is quite true, but it does not mean that map data is not covered by copyright. Nor does it mean that it is, for the reasons I have given. - Rob. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On 7 June 2011 14:35, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: A 2/3 majority of what? When was a poll held? Your next paragraph suggests that you know when. Do you really think it's a valid poll where, for months, you're only allowed to say yes, and then even after you're allowed to say no, you can switch your mind until the answer is yes (at which point you can't change it back)? Yes, I do. And the numbers suggest that most people agree with me. This is besides the fact that the question being asked is not the right question in the first place. It is up to those asking the question to determine what question they would like to have answered. In this case, the people asking for a mandate to change the licence/copyright terms of the database we host are those directly involved in the hosting of said database. They have a right and duty to consider these issues and the mandate they seek will not prevent any of us from making use of today's data set in any way we were already permitted to do so. And besides the fact that I haven't been allowed to vote. In the old days they might have been plucking chickens and boiling up the tar. These days antisocial behaviour just gets you banned. There was no vote. Over 32000 mappers have agreed to a proposal. 387 have disagreed. If you choose not to consider this a vote, fair enough, but any longtime readers have had plenty of chances to form an opinion of your brand of logic. Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
2011/6/7 Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com: very probably that wasn't the official creative commons line, and he wasn't a lawyer, but neither have i seen his comments officially refuted by anyone at CC. .. or even disavowed :-) Even in the European Union, where there is considerably more harmony, this is not at all a settled question. The CJEU will be looking at at least one question referred from the UK on exactly what has happened to database copyright. The best, and most accurate thing, one can likely say is: some contributors may have intellectual property rights over some aspects of their contribution in some countries and some of those rights might be copyright and therefore fall under CC-BY-SA. -- Francis Davey ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Matt Amos zerebubuth@... writes: also the VP of science commons did say [2]: I'm going to be a little provocative here and say that your data is already unprotected [under CC-BY-SA], and you cannot slap a license on it and protect it. ... That means I'm free to ignore any kind of share-alike you apply to your data. I've got a download of the OSM data dump. I can repost it, right now, as public domain. Thanks, that's interesting. Although he didn't in fact carry out his threat... -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On 7 June 2011 15:20, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Of 8,402,321 people eligible to vote, 8,357,560, or 99.5%, cast ballots--8,348,700 of which favored Hussein, the government said. There were 5,808 spoiled ballots. Luckily our licence vote is more transparent. Details on who said yes and no are available, so any irregularities will easily be found. Happy hunting! Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Am i missing something ? Dermot is answering messages that are not on this list. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Dermot McNally [mailto:derm...@gmail.com] Verzonden: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:53 PM Aan: Anthony CC: Licensing and other legal discussions. Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment On 7 June 2011 15:20, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Of 8,402,321 people eligible to vote, 8,357,560, or 99.5%, cast ballots--8,348,700 of which favored Hussein, the government said. There were 5,808 spoiled ballots. Luckily our licence vote is more transparent. Details on who said yes and no are available, so any irregularities will easily be found. Happy hunting! Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
2011/6/7 Anthony o...@inbox.org: And what's the best, most accurate thing one can say under the ODbL/DbCL? Some contributors may have intellectual property rights over some aspects of their contribution in some places and some of those rights might be copyright and/or database rights. The ODbL might apply to some of that. The DbCL might apply to some of it. Additionally, some places might recognize clickwrap license agreements, which might mean that the ODbL might cover some aspects of some contributions of some contributors. That's a fair summary. It probably doesn't even need the qualification relative to clickwrap licence agreements. Starting the last sentence at The ODbL... The difference is - and I am not taking a position for or against - that more is caught by the ODbL worldwide than is caught by CC and, in particular, in the European Union and other places with the sui generis database right. That means that, where I am sitting ODbL may make a much bigger difference than it might do elsewhere. I say may because its just possible that UK database copyright with a low standard of originality survived the directive, which would make quite a difference. The CJEU has been asked. -- Francis Davey ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Yup, I said this: I'm going to be a little provocative here and say that your data is already unprotected [under CC-BY-SA], and you cannot slap a license on it and protect it. ... That means I'm free to ignore any kind of share-alike you apply to your data. I've got a download of the OSM data dump. I can repost it, right now, as public domain. Said Matt Amos: very probably that wasn't the official creative commons line, and he wasn't a lawyer, but neither have i seen his comments officially refuted by anyone at CC. Nope, wasn't an official line. It was a point about how easy it is to extract and republish data if you want do do so, because of the inexact reaches of copyright, database rights, and contract. The point was to be provocative, not to make a threat. I'm not ever going to republish a copy of the OSM data dump, because that would be an asshole maneuver (which, as an American, is I believe the King's English phrasing). But someone who didn't care about being an asshole could do so, and the remedies are a lot less clear than they are in software and culture. If the asshole isn't in the EU, and didn't get a copy under contract, what do you do? That was my point - to make people think about that. CC also isn't Science Commons. We got absorbed last year by CC, and CC's a lot more about providing choices, not about being normative. Our job at SC was to be normative, to push for more open uses of the tools inside the CC suite of tools. That's why we didn't *recommend* the use of the licenses on data in the sciences, and I was kind of naive in jumping over into your community and yelling about those terms here. I apologize for that. This isn't a science community. It's not publicly funded. And I'm not part of it. I shouldn't have gotten onto the list and ranted without spending time getting to know the community. Indeed, i've done a little mapping since then even. So I backed out, and let you guys hash it out, and I worked out my differences with OKF via the Panton Principles (http://pantonprinciples.org)- public science data should be in the public domain - while I let CC take over the conversation about data licensing generally. I remain an advocate for the public domain for data, and a skeptic as to the ability to magically port the tools of free culture and free software to free data. But I'm a lot less stressed about it than I used to be. Part of that is that the capacity to create data is so great - data that doesn't get licensed well won't get well used, whatever the tools chosen - and part of that is the result of talking to a lot more people who are in open data outside the sciences. Keep on posting old text that I cited, as I won't run from my own words. We all own what we say on lists. As I said, I shouldn't have gotten on here and posted so rashly, but it is what it is. But also keep watching the CC site and blog for information, because CC is the only one that speaks for CC. Science Commons ain't the voice of CC for data, and never was, and it's our collective fault in both parts of the organization that we allowed that to happen (as Mike Linksvayer pointed out in a post earlier this year at http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26283). Back to lurking. jtw -- John Wilbanks VP for Science Creative Commons web: http://creativecommons.org/science blog: http://scienceblogs.com/commonknowledge twitter: @wilbanks ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:59 PM, john wilbanks wilba...@creativecommons.org wrote: Yup, I said this: I'm going to be a little provocative here and say that your data is already unprotected [under CC-BY-SA], and you cannot slap a license on it and protect it. ... That means I'm free to ignore any kind of share-alike you apply to your data. I've got a download of the OSM data dump. I can repost it, right now, as public domain. Dear Mike and John, I understand that Creative Commons declined to participate in drafting ODbL when invited. Why is that? Why the sudden interest in data now, after having declined the opportunity earlier? Best regards, Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Remapping before license change (was Re: CTs are not full copyright assignment)
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 4:08 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: We're planning to have most things remapped by CT supporters before we make the switch, so it will hardly be noticeable. How do you plan to achieve that in areas where there are not (m)any mappers on the ground? Not everything can be done through arm-chair mapping. My main concern with the license change process is the inevitable and unnecessary data loss for an uncertain and unnecessary improvement. Thanks, N. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Remapping before license change (was Re: CTs are not full copyright assignment)
Hi, Nakor Osm wrote: How do you plan to achieve that in areas where there are not (m)any mappers on the ground? Not everything can be done through arm-chair mapping. Yes, I'm sure that there will be problem areas. An area with little or no mappers on the ground is a problem area *even today*, but the problem will be pronounced if the single person who mapped something chooses to decline. My main concern with the license change process is the inevitable and unnecessary data loss for an uncertain and unnecessary improvement. Well if I were of the opinion that the improvement were unnecessary, I'd certainly not waste my time on this list. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Private negotiations
I'm led to believe that people have been issuing LWG with private lists of demands that they want met before they will consent to ODbL+CT. Could I ask that said people have the courtesy to post their demands here, too? It would be a shame if the suspicion arose that the process is being swayed by closed demands. LWG does of course publish minutes, as is right and proper, but there is currently no requirement for those writing to it to disclose their own demands. cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Richard said: I understand that Creative Commons declined to participate in drafting ODbL when invited. Why is that? Why the sudden interest in data now, after having declined the opportunity earlier? I don't speak for CC here, I speak for SC, which was far less integrated into CC than you might have imagined. It's why we eliminated the division and moved west. But we had our own Board, our own lawyers, our own staff, and we lived three time zones away from CC. And we didn't do a great job of being integrated. As for SC, we were involved in the first go round of what became ODBL. We were able to convince all involved to write a public domain tool instead (PDDL) and then the SC protocol on data came out around the same time. CC also decided as a result, in part from what integration we did have between science and headquarters, to rebuild its public domain dedication as two tools - one a legal waiver (CC0) and one as a public domain mark. Here's some background that I am at liberty to share. I wasn't the only one working in and around here, so I am only going to talk about the stuff I was involved in. First, there were differences in the European versions of the licenses that integrated database rights from other jurisdictions. After lengthy conversations in 2007 everyone agreed to turn those into waivers of the DB rights, so that if you use a jurisdiction specific EU 3.0 license, it should waive the DB rights. After that process, which was formally agreed to in 2007 at the Dubrovnik iSummit, we had to implement. That ate up a lot of what bandwidth we had for data rights. Second, in late 2007, a key SC employee who would have been essential to any work on any ODBL became gravely ill and was basically out of action for six months. When that employee was finally back, we were way behind on day to day work and didn't have a ton of bandwidth for projects that weren't funded, like our biological materials transfer and patent licensing projects. Third, after coming out with a strong statement against licensing data in the sciences, because our goal was interoperability, it would have been pretty hypocritical to then engage when people hired Jordan to start working on the revisions that became the ODBL (I believe that was actually OSM). I continue to think that the addition of a contract breaks interoperability - it certainly did so in the case of some core genomic databases - and that the creation and promotion of such a tool poses real risks in the sciences. I would rather work on getting OKF to discourage its use in the sciences, which is what Panton was all about for me. Panton basically says don't use licenses on publicly funded science data, including ODBL - or BY-SA. So it's not like we have a sudden interest in data. CC's had an interest from day 1, from MusicBrains to Freebase to Encyclopedia of Life. SC's had an interest from day 1. It's just that to this community in particular we managed to conflate those interests. It wasn't like we sat around and said hey, let's figure out ways not to work with the ODBL folks. We had very little time, lots of projects, not a lot of staff, and a lot of choices to make. We chose to put our time and effort at Science Commons elsewhere, and we weren't very well integrated with CC at that point either. When I was in a previous job, I heard an aphorism that stuck with me. Never assume malice when you can assume conference calls. That about sums it up. jtw -- John Wilbanks VP for Science Creative Commons web: http://creativecommons.org/science blog: http://scienceblogs.com/commonknowledge twitter: @wilbanks ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
- Original Message - From: Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment On 2011-06-07 10:35, Ed Avis wrote: Frederik Rammfrederik@... writes: 3. OSMF to choose a new license that is free and open, present it to OSM community for vote, and get 2/3 of active mappers to agree with the new license. This is the only bit that is new, and the 2/3 of mappers hurdle can hardly be called allow the board to tweak the license. The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence Why do you and some others think that the majority of the contributors are dumb sheeps who will sign everything? 1) Because I've seen postings to various OSM emailing lists along the lines of: (i) I trust OSM to get it right and so I just agreed to the CT;s (ii) I don't like the CT's but I want my data preserved in OSM so I felt I had to agree to the CT;s (iii) I'm not interested in legalities I just want to get mapping, so I agreed to the CT's; 2) Because there is very definite evidence that even though Nearmap derived data is not compatible with the CT's, many mappers who have used Neapmap in the past have agreed to the CT's So, Andreas what evidence do you have, that the majority of those who have agreed to the CT's, have given along a thoughtful consideration of all the issues involved, and having done so have come to a reasoned decision on whether or not they can agree to the CT's? Regards David OTOH if everyone agrees to a new CT it can't be that bad, can it? Bye, Andreas ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bandwidth limit/IP blocking - Error 303 on the OSM API?
I'd also like to add that people get more excited about OpenStreetMap when they see their changes instantly added. I've trained people in both Potlatch, Potlatch2 and JOSM. I pick the tool depending on specific class. Areas with bad/no internet access we use JOSM and changes are immediately seen (people never seem that excited). -Kate On Jun 6, 2011, at 12:41 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: On 05.06.2011 22:18, Serge Wroclawski wrote: For doing test edits: Why not use the dev api? Then you won't have to worry about uploads breaking something. When I've done this kind of training, it's been for a disaster, and we need the real data, and the real api. In what way does the dev API differ from the real one that is affecting your training? Or is it just that there is not enough data available? You can upload an extract of the area you are using into dev in advance to have data to play with. Maybe my comment wasn't clear. When I've done training for OSM, it's been in the context of a crisis event when we had 20-40 people using areal imagery to examine an area and map it. They would classify roads, detect destroyed buildings, identify tent cities, etc. The point wasn't just to train them in some abstract way, but to make real change. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
Essentially what I'm looking for is the ability to produce a Thomas-Guide style maps book where a city is broken into printable pages (e.g. A6) and at the back would be an index of streets with corresponding page and x/y axis information. As mentioned before it would be ideal if this could be automated so that all it would need is a city and it would produce the pages. Anybody interested in helping create such a system? -Samuel On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Dane Springmeyer d...@dbsgeo.com wrote: Samuel, It seems to me like rendering the actual pages would be easier (than actually rendering a large image, then chopping). This should also give better results because the scales of things like text and lines would look better. So, the way I would approach this would be to determine the size and extents of each map for each page (ideally automatically). Then render each one with Mapnik. So, your ingredients would be a width and height in pixels, and bounding box for each page. Then write a python script to loop over every page and render a map using an OSM stylesheet. If you don't have python scripts skills then we can think of alternatives, but that would be my first recommendation. Mike Migurski, also author of safety maps, has done this with Mapnik for printed bike maps of SF, so he could likely advise. On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Mikel Maron wrote: Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books? Making mapbooks easier to script, via python, with Mapnik has long been a goal of mine. But I've not really gotten past proof of concept. One usecase is making a map of every feature in a dataset that meets some criteria. I wrote a script a while ago that demonstrates how to do that with mapnik by querying all countries over a given population and them rendering a map for each, while painting a special outline over their border. Code is here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/example_code/map_sequences/ and an animated gif to demonstrate what is done is here: http://dbsgeo.com/tmp/mapnik_animated.gif Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales? It can be done but I've found that hacking around in MapOsMatic requires a lot of patience and pretty high python/cairo skill level. http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar. I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it useful. safety-maps are awesome. == Mikel Maron == +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron - Forwarded Message *From:* Richard Weait rich...@weait.com *To:* Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote: I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community for disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local area so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to specific areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help). OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed (1:4800) of an entire city I haven't been able to use the export tool since it seems to have some built in limits to how large of an image it will generate (which makes sense). For Mountain View, CA the image size we'd want to generate is around 9409 x 11310 with a 1:4800 scale, in other words, very large. We would then cut this into smaller squares and print it out in a booklet with attribution to OpenStreetMap for the data and visuals. What's the best way for us to generate these detailed maps of the various cities? Well that sounds awesome. You might try downloading an extract of OSM data for that area. You should be able to find an extract that deals with California, or the US West. That way you don't have to deal with an entire planet full of data. Then use Mapnik or one of the other rendering tools to generate your map. You'll likely want to adjust the style sheet to make it just right for emergency awareness. There is a company in SF area experienced in printing high resolution maps from OSM data. Perhaps they'll do it for you for free since it is such a worthy project? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
Hi, we have this recurring topic in various parts of OSM - airspace mapping. I'm strictly against it. (For those not familiar with airspace, here's an example of a VFR airspace map: http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/artikel_02/art_02-0001/ICAO-Karte-Ausschnitt-Bild2.jpg) My arguments against airspace mapping are: 1. Imports of un-observable things that are defined by other people should be kept to an absolute minimum in OSM. Airspace definitions change regularly and the only way to have them in OSM is to import them again and again. 2. Airspace (since it only rarely has any connection to features on the ground) is perfectly suited for an overlay; very little would be gained by having it in OSM rather than in a parallel system maintained by a flying enthusiast. 3. For the same reason, airspace boundaries cut right across the country, through cities, and so on, and provide an unnecessary distraction to mappers. 4. 99% of Airspace is of almost no significance to non-pilots. Arguments like one would like to know if the house one intends to buy is within some kind of airspace are fantasy. 5. Pilots would not use a crowdsourced airspace map; they are legally required to have a current official map anyway when they fly somewhere. It seems to me that people who would like to have airspace in OSM are mostly flight simulator aficionados, and while I find that an interesting pastime, one has to be honest about it: Flight simulators are computer games. 6. The usual form in which airspace is published is on printed, copyrighted maps; it is difficult, if not impossible, to actually get your hands on airspace descriptions that are official and not copyright encumbered. There was limited discussion here recently: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/3684/mapping-for-aviation although this question was a little broader, concerning not only airspace but also other aviation-related items such as beacons. My position in that discussion was: If a feature is observable on the ground and doubles as an aviation reporting point - no problem, tag it. But if something is defined just by its coordinates or a mark on an airspace map - don't. The beast rears its head in this proposed feature from 2009 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Airspace and in its German counterpart, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Luftraum and on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aeroways the topic is briefly referenced. Also there was discussion about aviation tracks on help.osm last year: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/297/does-it-make-sense-to-upload-aviation-tracks-to-osm There are currently 21 airspace objects in OSM. I would like to end this discussion once and for all, or at least for the near future, and create a wiki page named Aviation, to which I would link from the Aeroways page and from Airspace, and I would also close the Proposed Feature with a link to that page. On the Aviation page, I would write up the reasons against airspace mapping, basically as given above and on the mapping-for-aviation help page, concluding that mapping for aviation is discouraged On that page I would also suggest that someone who is reasonably interested should set up a rails port instance of their own, complete with a rendering chain to generate half-transparent tiles that can be overlaid over a standard map. And I would even offer them my help in doing that. But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? Or do you think that airspace should have a place in OSM after all? Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 07/06/11 08:41, Frederik Ramm wrote: But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? +100 Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
Hi all, Lots of time was spent in late Feburary early March in NZ to produce printable maps from OSM/Ushahidi for Christchurch residents without power. It would be great to recycle this energy. Tim McNamara Professional \\ paperlessprojects.com Personal \\ @timClicks http://twitter.com/timClicks | timmcnamara.co.nz On 7 June 2011 10:03, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books? Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales? http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar. I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it useful. == Mikel Maron == +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron - Forwarded Message *From:* Richard Weait rich...@weait.com *To:* Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote: I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community for disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local area so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to specific areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help). OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed (1:4800) of an entire city I haven't been able to use the export tool since it seems to have some built in limits to how large of an image it will generate (which makes sense). For Mountain View, CA the image size we'd want to generate is around 9409 x 11310 with a 1:4800 scale, in other words, very large. We would then cut this into smaller squares and print it out in a booklet with attribution to OpenStreetMap for the data and visuals. What's the best way for us to generate these detailed maps of the various cities? Well that sounds awesome. You might try downloading an extract of OSM data for that area. You should be able to find an extract that deals with California, or the US West. That way you don't have to deal with an entire planet full of data. Then use Mapnik or one of the other rendering tools to generate your map. You'll likely want to adjust the style sheet to make it just right for emergency awareness. There is a company in SF area experienced in printing high resolution maps from OSM data. Perhaps they'll do it for you for free since it is such a worthy project? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
Tom Hughes wrote: But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? +100 Perfect example of something that should be possible to implement as a completely separate database, but which can overlay any other OSM data? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
Frederik, On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, we have this recurring topic in various parts of OSM - airspace mapping. I'm strictly against it. [...] But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? Or do you think that airspace should have a place in OSM after all? I do, but what more can you do than dissuade people from doing it and laying down your arguments? (And have a secret 'feature' in JOSM that sends all airspace-related edits to /dev/null of course :) -- martijn van exel schaaltreinen.nl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 09:41:29AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? Or do you think that airspace should have a place in OSM after all? I agree to strongly discourage airspace tagging. Its nice that OSM has this open tagging structure and all. But at some point we have to draw the line, otherwise OSM will devolve into a total mess that nobody can understand and handle any more. I would like OSM to be open do all these things, but with the current data structure and tools we simply have to limit ourselves. I'd love to have a more powerful data structure in OSM with some kind of layering and better tools to handle the amount of data. But currently we don't have that and I don't see it appearing anytime soon. So I think its better to voluntarily limit OSM a little bit. I don't know where the line is, between what we, as a community want, and what we don't want. We will have to discuss that again and again. But I am pretty sure that airspaces are very far on the other side of that line. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 2011-06-07 09:41, Frederik Ramm wrote: ... Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? I fully agree with all of your points. Bye, Andreas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
On 2011-06-07 10:35, Ed Avis wrote: Frederik Rammfrederik@... writes: 3. OSMF to choose a new license that is free and open, present it to OSM community for vote, and get 2/3 of active mappers to agree with the new license. This is the only bit that is new, and the 2/3 of mappers hurdle can hardly be called allow the board to tweak the license. The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence Why do you and some others think that the majority of the contributors are dumb sheeps who will sign everything? OTOH if everyone agrees to a new CT it can't be that bad, can it? Bye, Andreas ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
Hi, After the recent flood in Haut-Richelieu, Québec, and the request to use MapOSMatic in this context, it happens that I met Thomas, one of the developers of MapOSMatic. When I had asked about this functionality of map booklet, he had told me that they had started working on this (or on features that would make this easier, I don't remember exactly) during the Hackfest last August. Maybe coordinating efforts on this would be the best way to move forward? By the way, he also told me that he had sent an email reply, that apparently was moderated on lists he is not a member of, and that I have not seen. He explained that there was still a lag in the database updates (after the MapOSMatic database had been down). About the mapping of a specific area defined by a relation (not necessarily a city), it might be not be too far from what is done with administrative boundary ways, but would require a mean to transmit or specify the desired area. Anyway Samuel, I invite you to have a look at http://www.maposmatic.org if you have not already (there seems to be a problem at the moment with a job over Berlin, hopefully not for long). Best regards, Jean-Guilhem Le 07/06/2011 08:51, Samuel Mandell a écrit : Essentially what I'm looking for is the ability to produce a Thomas-Guide style maps book where a city is broken into printable pages (e.g. A6) and at the back would be an index of streets with corresponding page and x/y axis information. As mentioned before it would be ideal if this could be automated so that all it would need is a city and it would produce the pages. Anybody interested in helping create such a system? -Samuel On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Dane Springmeyer d...@dbsgeo.com mailto:d...@dbsgeo.com wrote: Samuel, It seems to me like rendering the actual pages would be easier (than actually rendering a large image, then chopping). This should also give better results because the scales of things like text and lines would look better. So, the way I would approach this would be to determine the size and extents of each map for each page (ideally automatically). Then render each one with Mapnik. So, your ingredients would be a width and height in pixels, and bounding box for each page. Then write a python script to loop over every page and render a map using an OSM stylesheet. If you don't have python scripts skills then we can think of alternatives, but that would be my first recommendation. Mike Migurski, also author of safety maps, has done this with Mapnik for printed bike maps of SF, so he could likely advise. On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Mikel Maron wrote: Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books? Making mapbooks easier to script, via python, with Mapnik has long been a goal of mine. But I've not really gotten past proof of concept. One usecase is making a map of every feature in a dataset that meets some criteria. I wrote a script a while ago that demonstrates how to do that with mapnik by querying all countries over a given population and them rendering a map for each, while painting a special outline over their border. Code is here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/example_code/map_sequences/ and an animated gif to demonstrate what is done is here: http://dbsgeo.com/tmp/mapnik_animated.gif Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales? It can be done but I've found that hacking around in MapOsMatic requires a lot of patience and pretty high python/cairo skill level. http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar. I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it useful. safety-maps are awesome. == Mikel Maron == +14152835207 tel:%2B14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron - Forwarded Message *From:* Richard Weait rich...@weait.com mailto:rich...@weait.com *To:* Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com mailto:shmand...@gmail.com *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com mailto:shmand...@gmail.com wrote: I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community for disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local area so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to specific areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help). OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 07/06/11 11:15, Ed Avis wrote: I think the important question is whether mapping airspace causes any harm to people who don't care about airspace. I believe Frederik covered that when he mentioned the problems of having lots of objects criss-crossing areas that people are trying to work on and how the pollution of the airspace things make that hard. If not, best to let the people who are interested get on with it, however misguided they may be. That way lies madness - there are already far too many people that think we're some kind of storehouse for any data that happens to have coordinates attached, rather than a database of map data. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:15:59 + (UTC), Ed Avis wrote: I think the important question is whether mapping airspace causes any harm to people who don't care about airspace. If not, best to let the people who are interested get on with it, however misguided they may be. IMHO this is already the case. The import of 3dshapes in the Netherlands, useful as it is, does cause a lot of clutter if you only want to edit roads. In the same way airspace information will clutter the editor and will be annoying if you're not editing that. If on top of that, airspace information is not something you want in the map (because it apparently is not useful for people using such data), then it causes harm. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
Tom Hughes tom at compton.nu writes: I think the important question is whether mapping airspace causes any harm to people who don't care about airspace. I believe Frederik covered that when he mentioned the problems of having lots of objects criss-crossing areas that people are trying to work on and how the pollution of the airspace things make that hard. That is a good point. I experience the same thing with underground railways and other miscellany. The proliferation of extra nodes and ways makes editing difficult. However, I would suggest that this is not a particularly hard problem to solve; the editor can hide all nodes with a certain tag or put them in a different layer. Currently, available editors don't do that. The question is whether to forbid tagging airspace (or water pipes, or contour lines, or whatever) for the time being until editor support is available for keeping the work separate - or whether to let it be for now and wait for editors to catch up in due course. Telling other people to stop mapping something which they are interested in needs a very good reason and a high burden of proof. And while airspace does seem a bit pointless to you and me, no doubt the people mapping it have good reasons. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 07/06/11 11:46, Ed Avis wrote: However, I would suggest that this is not a particularly hard problem to solve; the editor can hide all nodes with a certain tag or put them in a different layer. Currently, available editors don't do that. The question is whether to forbid tagging airspace (or water pipes, or contour lines, or whatever) for the time being until editor support is available for keeping the work separate - or whether to let it be for now and wait for editors to catch up in due course. Why only those two options? Why not just decide that we're not interested in airspace, or water pipes, or contour lines? Contour lines certainly are, like airspace, something that we're always said we don't think is appropriate. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
However, I would suggest that this is not a particularly hard problem to solve; the editor can hide all nodes with a certain tag or put them in a different layer. Currently, available editors don't do that. JOSM does that. Particularly well, too. Have a look at the Filter stuff. Can't speak at all about Merkaartor. Potlatch doesn't do it, but it seems it's a feature just waiting for a developer. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 6/7/2011 7:04 AM, Lennard wrote: However, I would suggest that this is not a particularly hard problem to solve; the editor can hide all nodes with a certain tag or put them in a different layer. Currently, available editors don't do that. JOSM does that. Particularly well, too. Have a look at the Filter stuff. I've not done much with JOSM filters, even when working with messy landuse or administrative boundaries. This is because they often share nodes with a road (or whatever) that I need to edit. Hiding the underlying object can easily result in a self-crossing polygon. So actually, that's an argument for having such things to a separate data space where the data consumer can mash them up. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: we have this recurring topic in various parts of OSM - airspace mapping. I'm strictly against it. I'm not 100% for it, and my feeling when reading this mail was that you are too categorically against this type of mapping. I will first comment on you action plan that you hid on the bottom: I would like to end this discussion once and for all, or at least for the near future, and create a wiki page named Aviation, to which I would link from the Aeroways page and from Airspace, and I would also close the Proposed Feature with a link to that page. Yes, but can I add docs about it on Key:airpace=* On the Aviation page, I would write up the reasons against airspace mapping, basically as given above and on the mapping-for-aviation help page, concluding that mapping for aviation is discouraged Yes, but I think the most important question is about the copyright and the discouragement of too large and unhandleable imports. (neither which seems to be a problem atm.) On that page I would also suggest that someone who is reasonably interested should set up a rails port instance of their own, complete with a rendering chain to generate half-transparent tiles that can be overlaid over a standard map. And I would even offer them my help in doing that. Considering how vital the OSM sysadmin team is I'm sure that is going to be a bit of a problem.. ;-) If it is a standard procedure that the OSM-F will host other free geographic data on their servers then sure this is a good idea. Here is what I think: First of all, years ago I was dead set against cluttering OSM data[1], but things change. Are you sure you guys are argumenting for OSM instead of just wanting to keep your data unecessarily clean, considering that Openstreetmap strives to provide free geographic data. The only valid arguments against would be as someone said, I think it ws JRA, the *import* of Corine Landcoverage and other huge easily accesible datasets into Openstreetmap database is troublesome. 1. Imports of un-observable things that are defined by other people should be kept to an absolute minimum in OSM. [paraphrase] But let say 0.1% of them are observable can I map that? Adding flight paths for my local airport most certainly would be a usefull thing to have, since it really is very noticeable that planes fly by every ~15min every morning and evening. That seems to be a very valid type of free geographic data. And I thought the idea about crowdsourcing was good enough. 2. Airspace data should be in a parallel system maintained by a flying enthusiast.[paraphrase] To me that just seems like a very subtle way to blow people off, 3. Airspace boundaries cut right across the country, and clutters [paraphrase] Clutter in the database is also very subjective, there are several things that clutter the DB.. e.g. * 3dShapes * bus routes * turn restriction * landuse * buildings * abutters=residential * boundaries But since Openstreetmap strives to provide free geographic data, not specifically a map, they are included. Hence it is already a storehouse for stuff with coordinated that change a lot by external parties.. It really is a pain to edit OSM when all these cluttering features are there on the map. I don't see a problem with adding another layer of clutter just because you guys are used to it doesn't mean it's easy. 4. 99% of Airspace is of almost no significance to non-pilots. [paraphrase] But then that 1% (or 0.1%)is what is causing the concern, it's that 0.1% that actually is mappable. 5. Pilots would not use a crowdsourced airspace map;[paraphrase] Bad argument, same goes for many things in OSM. 6. airspace is published is on printed, copyrighted maps [paraphrase] Big problem. [1] I thought adding abutters=residential was cluttering the data ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: 4. 99% of Airspace is of almost no significance to non-pilots. Arguments like one would like to know if the house one intends to buy is within some kind of airspace are fantasy. I agree with all the rest. I would say here that it might be ok to have *some* limited airspace (or more specifically, flight path) objects that have broader relevance. It is not unknown, to mark flight paths near airports on street maps (street-directory.com.au does this - sorry direct links don't seem to work well). The best long term solution to this, and other problems, would be to have better facilities for creating and integrating overlays. Just like Wikipedia solved some of its scoping problems by telling people to stick it all on Wikia, it would be easier if we had another solution: don't put airspaces in OSM, put it in storage solution and then overlay it with overlay solution. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Addressing System in OSM
Who can help me with Addressing System in OpenStreetMap, I need like a tutorial for that because I am trying to figure out some problems in Kosovo, but I need help to do that ?... -- Regards Besfort Guri +377 44 49 88 91 www.besiguri.wordpress.com http://besfortp.posterous.com/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
OT, I know, but I would love to see the same thing available as Kindle friendly pdf (or native ebook format) download. I recently drove around France for a weekend wishing that my atlas was Open, offline and on my ebook reader. Cheers, Joseph On 7 June 2011 07:51, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote: Essentially what I'm looking for is the ability to produce a Thomas-Guide style maps book where a city is broken into printable pages (e.g. A6) and at the back would be an index of streets with corresponding page and x/y axis information. As mentioned before it would be ideal if this could be automated so that all it would need is a city and it would produce the pages. Anybody interested in helping create such a system? -Samuel On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Dane Springmeyer d...@dbsgeo.com wrote: Samuel, It seems to me like rendering the actual pages would be easier (than actually rendering a large image, then chopping). This should also give better results because the scales of things like text and lines would look better. So, the way I would approach this would be to determine the size and extents of each map for each page (ideally automatically). Then render each one with Mapnik. So, your ingredients would be a width and height in pixels, and bounding box for each page. Then write a python script to loop over every page and render a map using an OSM stylesheet. If you don't have python scripts skills then we can think of alternatives, but that would be my first recommendation. Mike Migurski, also author of safety maps, has done this with Mapnik for printed bike maps of SF, so he could likely advise. On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Mikel Maron wrote: Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books? Making mapbooks easier to script, via python, with Mapnik has long been a goal of mine. But I've not really gotten past proof of concept. One usecase is making a map of every feature in a dataset that meets some criteria. I wrote a script a while ago that demonstrates how to do that with mapnik by querying all countries over a given population and them rendering a map for each, while painting a special outline over their border. Code is here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/example_code/map_sequences/ and an animated gif to demonstrate what is done is here: http://dbsgeo.com/tmp/mapnik_animated.gif Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales? It can be done but I've found that hacking around in MapOsMatic requires a lot of patience and pretty high python/cairo skill level. http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar. I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it useful. safety-maps are awesome. == Mikel Maron == +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron - Forwarded Message From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com To: Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote: I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community for disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local area so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to specific areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help). OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed (1:4800) of an entire city I haven't been able to use the export tool since it seems to have some built in limits to how large of an image it will generate (which makes sense). For Mountain View, CA the image size we'd want to generate is around 9409 x 11310 with a 1:4800 scale, in other words, very large. We would then cut this into smaller squares and print it out in a booklet with attribution to OpenStreetMap for the data and visuals. What's the best way for us to generate these detailed maps of the various cities? Well that sounds awesome. You might try downloading an extract of OSM data for that area. You should be able to find an extract that deals with California, or the US West. That way you don't have to deal with an entire planet full of data. Then use Mapnik or one of the other rendering tools to generate your map. You'll likely want to adjust the style sheet to make it just right for emergency awareness. There is a company in SF area experienced in printing high resolution maps from OSM data. Perhaps they'll do it for you for free since it is such a worthy project? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ HOT
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
On 2011-06-07, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote After the recent flood in Haut-Richelieu, Québec, and the request to use MapOSMatic in this context, it happens that I met Thomas, one of the developers of MapOSMatic. When I had asked about this functionality of map booklet, he had told me that they had started working on this (or on features that would make this easier, I don't remember exactly) during the Hackfest last August. Maybe coordinating efforts on this would be the best way to move forward? Because of the lag in MapOSMatic database update, it was not possible to use it for Haut-Richelieu street maps. I agree that we should coordinate efforts to move forward and shorten delays to produce such maps. Boundary relations are an easy way to define areas to work on the field and, obviously, Map tools should permit to produce a map from these relations. regards Pierre Béland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing System in OSM
Start here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address Generally you just need the addr:housenumber and addr:street tags, but if you're more specific with your question we can do a better job answering. Nominatim can also be useful for debugging purposes, go here: http://open.mapquestapi.com/nominatim/v1/ Search for a place, then view details to see some useful information. -Josh On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Besfort Guri besig...@gmail.com wrote: Who can help me with Addressing System in OpenStreetMap, I need like a tutorial for that because I am trying to figure out some problems in Kosovo, but I need help to do that ?... -- Regards Besfort Guri +377 44 49 88 91 www.besiguri.wordpress.com http://besfortp.posterous.com/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Phase 4 and what it means
Maarten Deen schrieb: It gains the right to exploit the data in the database. If it would exploit the database in a manner where this word legally applies, it would break the rules the Foundation has and therefore break the law, AFAIK. Exploit is what (according to a IIRC legally back statement) someone residing in e.g. the US can do with the database under the current license, by downloading it as a whole and use or make it available under PD or any other terms he likes. Robert Kaiser ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
On 7 June 2011 13:58, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: The best long term solution to this, and other problems, would be to have better facilities for creating and integrating overlays. Just like Wikipedia solved some of its scoping problems by telling people to stick it all on Wikia, it would be easier if we had another solution: don't put airspaces in OSM, put it in storage solution and then overlay it with overlay solution. Or maybe put it in OSM airspace db or historic db. I can imagine a set of OSM api servers for different purposes all under the name of OSM. You could then have the editor's Download dialog have a dropdown list right there instead of hidden inside the Preferences dialog, with an (editable) list like the imagery sources list. Would it be confusing? I don't think so, while it could make OSM reacher and useful in more specific mapping projects. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
2011/6/7 Anthony o...@inbox.org: It's not even clear that more is caught by the ODbL worldwide, in part because the ODbL explicitly states that it does not cover the copyright over the Contents independent of this Database, and it is unclear what the Contents independent of this Database means (and this too might vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, even though in theory it shouldn't). [see below] Also, ODbL is explicitly a contract, and not a license, which might mean that in some jurisdictions (I'm thinking the United States) violations will be governed by contract law and not copyright law. This would mean no injunctions and no punitive damages. Right, so remedies may vary. Injunctions are available for breach of contract (well orders for specific performance anyway) in England, but not punitive damages. Some civil law jurisdictions won't allow punitive damages even for breach of copyright. How *effective* ODbL (or CC for that matter) might be is a separate and equally vexed question to the question of what is caught. -- Francis Davey ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Mike Dupont schrieb: The people are not being asked to agree to a license in general, but to give up an allow the board to tweak the license for them. If the board consists of 2/3 of the active contributors, then yes. If the board consists of fewer or different people than in this definition, then no. Robert Kaiser ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
2011/6/7 Anthony o...@inbox.org: I could certainly see an argument that someone who changes the structure of the database, rearranges the contents, changes the field names, and reorganizes the indexes, has successfully extracted the Contents independent of the Database, and gets to use the whole thing under the DbCL. As a matter of EU law that act would require permission of the owner of the database right (since it would amount to a re-utilisation of the database) which would be covered by 2.2(b). Database copyright (to the extent it exists) I haven't thought about at all for anywhere other than the UK, where its sufficiently complicated to use up my time so far. You may well be right elsewhere in the world. Something for me to think about. -- Francis Davey ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs are not full copyright assignment
Ed Avis schrieb: Frederik Rammfrederik@... writes: 3. OSMF to choose a new license that is free and open, present it to OSM community for vote, and get 2/3 of active mappers to agree with the new license. This is the only bit that is new, and the 2/3 of mappers hurdle can hardly be called allow the board to tweak the license. The process is pretty simple really: - decide what licence you want without bothering to hold a vote - get everyone to sign up to new contributor terms allowing that licence - block anyone who says no from contributing and presto! you have your 2/3 majority of active contributors. That only works as long as there are no CTs the people have agreed to and that define a different process... Robert Kaiser ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Are you coming to London on Sunday?
or saturday night http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Board_Meeting_June_2011 Would be awesome to see you there Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
2011/6/7 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: Perfect example of something that should be possible to implement as a completely separate database, but which can overlay any other OSM data? +1 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project
Jean-Guilhem, It sounds like there could be a lot of demand for the ability to generate these map booklets. *Thomas* - are there any updates on this effort from the MapOSMatic side of things? I am working with a group of designers on the disaster prepardness project so we can definitely contribute design resources. -Samuel On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Jean-Guilhem Cailton j...@arkemie.comwrote: Hi, After the recent flood in Haut-Richelieu, Québec, and the request to use MapOSMatic in this context, it happens that I met Thomas, one of the developers of MapOSMatic. When I had asked about this functionality of map booklet, he had told me that they had started working on this (or on features that would make this easier, I don't remember exactly) during the Hackfest last August. Maybe coordinating efforts on this would be the best way to move forward? By the way, he also told me that he had sent an email reply, that apparently was moderated on lists he is not a member of, and that I have not seen. He explained that there was still a lag in the database updates (after the MapOSMatic database had been down). About the mapping of a specific area defined by a relation (not necessarily a city), it might be not be too far from what is done with administrative boundary ways, but would require a mean to transmit or specify the desired area. Anyway Samuel, I invite you to have a look at http://www.maposmatic.org if you have not already (there seems to be a problem at the moment with a job over Berlin, hopefully not for long). Best regards, Jean-Guilhem Le 07/06/2011 08:51, Samuel Mandell a écrit : Essentially what I'm looking for is the ability to produce a Thomas-Guide style maps book where a city is broken into printable pages (e.g. A6) and at the back would be an index of streets with corresponding page and x/y axis information. As mentioned before it would be ideal if this could be automated so that all it would need is a city and it would produce the pages. Anybody interested in helping create such a system? -Samuel On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Dane Springmeyer d...@dbsgeo.comwrote: Samuel, It seems to me like rendering the actual pages would be easier (than actually rendering a large image, then chopping). This should also give better results because the scales of things like text and lines would look better. So, the way I would approach this would be to determine the size and extents of each map for each page (ideally automatically). Then render each one with Mapnik. So, your ingredients would be a width and height in pixels, and bounding box for each page. Then write a python script to loop over every page and render a map using an OSM stylesheet. If you don't have python scripts skills then we can think of alternatives, but that would be my first recommendation. Mike Migurski, also author of safety maps, has done this with Mapnik for printed bike maps of SF, so he could likely advise. On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Mikel Maron wrote: Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books? Making mapbooks easier to script, via python, with Mapnik has long been a goal of mine. But I've not really gotten past proof of concept. One usecase is making a map of every feature in a dataset that meets some criteria. I wrote a script a while ago that demonstrates how to do that with mapnik by querying all countries over a given population and them rendering a map for each, while painting a special outline over their border. Code is here: http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/example_code/map_sequences/ and an animated gif to demonstrate what is done is here: http://dbsgeo.com/tmp/mapnik_animated.gif Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales? It can be done but I've found that hacking around in MapOsMatic requires a lot of patience and pretty high python/cairo skill level. http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar. I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it useful. safety-maps are awesome. == Mikel Maron == +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron - Forwarded Message *From:* Richard Weait rich...@weait.com *To:* Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell shmand...@gmail.com wrote: I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community for disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local area so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to specific areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help). OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various cities to
Re: [OSM-talk] Airspace Co.
Tom Hughes writes: On 07/06/11 08:41, Frederik Ramm wrote: But before I do all that, I would like to hear from the community at large - you - whether you share my view. Do you agree that airspace should be elsewhere but not in OSM? +100 It should go on http://openairspace.org, which would be edited using JOSM, with mapnik tiles as a background layer. The only real disadvantage is that there would be no database-level connection between the end of the runway and the beginning of the airspace. I wonder ... what about tagging the node at the end of the runway in OSM with a pointer to the node number on OAS.org? And vice-versa. It would be straightforward to do a merge of the two databases if/when you needed to treat them as one. Or you could just follow them as if they were a symlink. You could do the same thing with subway lines and pipelines. But there I go, reinventing layers. Maybe we finally need them? -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe gecombineerde bruggen te mappen?
2011/6/1 Oliver Heesakkers o...@heesakkers.info: Er is een methode (proposal) met met relaties, alleen wordt die niet door Mapnik ondersteund, alleen door Osmarender. Hierdoor lijkt de populariteit nog ver te zoeken. Vergelijk hier de bruggen in het midden met de bruggen iets erboven en -onder: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.43488lon=5.50438zoom=17layers=O http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels Zoals een collega van me al zei, ways zouden een relatie met een brug moeten hebben, zodat dingen als 'de brug is dicht' ook invloed kunnen hebben op de wegen er overheen. Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe gecombineerde bruggen te mappen?
Zoals een collega van me al zei, ways zouden een relatie met een brug moeten hebben, zodat dingen als 'de brug is dicht' ook invloed kunnen hebben op de wegen er overheen. Die relatie is er al. Behoorlijk sterk ook. 'Brug' is namelijk een eigenschap die we direct op wegen zetten. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] omtagging motorway_links door It's so funny
Allereerst.Don't shoot the messenger... Hij (of zij?) heeft een de ref's op verbindingsbogen nu aangepast; de ref=* is de snelweg waar de verbinding naartoe leidt. Persoonlijk vind ik dit praktisch omdat de manier waarop het doorkomt in kaarten op de Garmin overeenkomt met de borden boven de weg. Dit is wel in strijd met de officiele rijbaanaanduidingen op de hectometerpaaltjes (m.a.w. wat het nummer van de weg feitelijk IS, naar de mening van de wegbeheerder). Ik heb in de UK rijbanen gezien die getagd waren met carriageway_ref=A etc. Dit zouden we in NL ook kunnen gaan gebruiken, mocht men behoeft hebben aan het taggen van de officiele rijbaanbenamingen. T.a.v. motorway_link op parallelbanen met doorgaande functie (bijvoorbeeld op de A2 langs Utrecht) heeft hij/zij de praktijk omgedraaid. Vroeger stond in de wiki dat parallelbanen (niet zijnde op- en afritten en verbindingsbogen) ook gewoon motorway waren. Voortaan zijn dat dus motorway_links. Zie: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Map_Features#Wegen Tot nu toe is het mij niet gelukt om hem/haar te laten deelnemen aan een openbare discussie over zijn acties en de rationale erachter. Colin On 30/05/2011 14:03, Martien Scheepens wrote: Ik ben nu eigenlijk benieuwd wat er nu met de aanpassingen van 'It's so funny' gaat gebeuren. Gaan de incorrecte ref-tags aangepast worden en wat gebeurd er met de name-tags op afritten? Groeten, Martien 2011/5/27 Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu mailto:o...@floris.nu 2011/5/27 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl mailto:colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: On 27/05/2011 00:12, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: ik snap het nog steeds niet. in dat voorbeeld is het toch ook een secondary_link? hij verbindt toch een secondary (Park Forum) met een andere secondary (Flight Forum)? Het voorbeeld zat toevallig op mijn klembord omdat een andere offline reactie die bevatte. Zoals ik het zie is het een segment van een doorgaande secondary. Als je naar de tags kijkt lees je ook: note=secondary_link ivm verbeterde gesproken navigatie in Garmin Volgens mij heb ik m'n punt nog niet duidelijk gemaakt. Dit hoort toch ook gewoon een secondary_link te zijn? Leuk dat het een gunstig side-effect heeft bij Garmin maar dit is in mijn ogen gewoon 'normaal' getagged zo... Groet, Floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] omtagging motorway_links door It's so funny
On 7-6-2011 21:17, Colin Smale wrote: T.a.v. motorway_link op parallelbanen met doorgaande functie (bijvoorbeeld op de A2 langs Utrecht) heeft hij/zij de praktijk omgedraaid. Vroeger stond in de wiki dat parallelbanen (niet zijnde op- en afritten en verbindingsbogen) ook gewoon motorway waren. Voortaan zijn dat dus motorway_links. Zie: Say's who? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Map_Features#Wegen Ah, hij is zèlf degene die deze wijziging in de wiki heeft gezet. Ik zie ook geen basis voor deze wijziging in de engelstalige pagina's. Tot nu toe is het mij niet gelukt om hem/haar te laten deelnemen aan een openbare discussie over zijn acties en de rationale erachter. En dat is jammer, want ik ben persoonlijk niet zo gecharmeerd van het taggen van parallelwegen met motorway_link. Dat is misschien goed en wel als die parallelwegen maar over een korte afstand bestaan om daarna bij de hoofdrijbaan te komen, maar wanneer dit vele kilometers duurt, vind ik het in ieder geval gewoon een motorway. Deze persoon zit wel (en nog niet zolang) op het forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/profile.php?id=9578 -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[talk-au] Free ebooks
Earlier this week 4000 academic books were released for free, apparently there is quite a lot of GIS books in the mix: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/slashgeo/~3/j318KMk-yGU/Hundreds-Free-Geospatial-PDF-Books-National-Academies-Press ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Atualização do Brasil 5500
Oi Pessoal, A tabela do Projeto Brasil 5500 foi atualizada: http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html Esperem atualizações mais frequentes deste projeto. Para saber mais: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_5500 Abs, Vitor ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Projektidee: Segmentierung von OSM-Daten
Hallo Frederik, On 07.06.2011 01:29, Frederik Ramm wrote: gerecht würden, und die Verteilung von OSM-Daten über Bittorrent und Co. würde möglich werden, Naja, fuer sich staendig aendernde Daten (selbst wenn sie sich nur taeglich aendern) ist das nicht gerade der beste Verbreitungsweg. Vorallem, wenn man verschiedene Quadrate (nicht unbedingt die ideale Aufteilung) hat, die unterschiedlich alt sind ;) Klar, ich würde erstmal den wöchentlichen Planeten anvisieren und dann mal sehen, ob sich da in Sachen Updates was Schlaues implementieren lässt... Ich möchte mich näher mit dieser Problemstellung auseinandersetzen und meine Frage ist nun: Arbeitet schon irgendjemand daran? Was Du mal studieren koenntest, ist TRAPI, da werden die OSM-Daten auf der Platte in solchen Segmenten abgelegt, so dass man sehr schnell ein bestimmtes Rechteck runterladen kann. Der Knackpunkt bei TRAPI ist, dass auch ein differentielles Update auf diese verteilte Plattenstruktur aufgespielt werden kann, d.h. man kann praktisch minutenaktuelle Rechtecke anbieten und muss nicht einmal am Tag den kompletten Planeten zerhacken. Danke für den Hinweis, werde ich mir anschauen! Grüße ant ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Workshop hart an der Grenze = im Kleverland am Niederrhein
Hallo Welt, bei uns am unteren Niederrhein, wo Vater Rhein Deutschland verlässt, starten wir einen Workshop zum Thema Einsteigen in die OpenStreetMap. Wir haben uns als enge Gruppe Anfang des letzten Jahres zusammengefunden, es wurden GPS-Geräte gesponsert und im engen Kontakt zum Stadtmarketing Kleve gearbeitet. Jetzt, zum schönen Wetter, starten wir einen zweiten Workshop. Teilnehmen kann jeder, aber eine kurze Hallo-Mail wird gewünscht (am besten an mich oder an die Liste *openstreetmap_kleverl...@googlegroups.com*). Ziel soll es sein, erstmal mit dem GPS zurechtzukommen und anschließend mit einfachem Editieren zu beginnen. Später sollen auch weitere Themen angefasst werden, dazu suchen wir auch gerne Gastreferenten. Die Termine sind bis jetzt festgelegt auf: 21. Juni | 20:00 Uhr | Mit dem GPS durch die Schwanenstadt » Vor dem Kolpinghaus - http://osm.org/go/0GFmsfCFs-- 05. Juli | 20:00 Uhr | Editieren von einfachen Tracks » Ort wird nachgereicht ;) Ich würde mich freuen, den einen oder anderen Neuling, Erfahrenen oder Profi kennen zulernen. Auch Kritiken zum Programm sind immer gut und helfen bei der Verbesserung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] [OT] Markierung bestimmter Punkte / Bereiche auf einer Karte
Hallo, gibt es ein geeignetes Tool, mit dem man lokale Ereignisse (z.B. Ausbrüche von Krankheiten) auf der OpenStreetMap Karte darstellen kann? Es geht um sowas in der Art: Sehr viele Fälle in Region A, weniger Fälle in Region B, einige wenige Fälle in Region C. Das ganze sollte dann auch noch durch Leute bedienbar sein, die mit GeoInformationssystemen noch nichts getan haben. Viele Grüße Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hallo Welt, nach einem Jahr Stillschweigen im Bereich Feuerwehr möchte ich das Thema nochmal auffrischen, und zwar aus aktuellem Anlass. Kurz zu mir: Ich studiere E-Government und bin Feuerwehrmann, eine Kombi die Quasi nach einer VERNÜNFTIGEN Lösung zum finden von Hydranten schreit. Zwar haben wir Karten vom Wasserversorger, diese sind aber schon bei Drucklegung veraltet und enden an der Kommunengrenze. Und Papier ist geduldig, die Übersicht ist schwer, in Eile quais unmöglich. Wir haben bei uns in der Löschgruppe im Mai des vergangen Jahres begonnen, alle Hydranten manuell zu erfassen, Änderungen zu pflegen und und und... http://openfiremap.org/?zoom=15lat=51.76313lon=6.16315layers=BTTT (nebenbei Danke an Thomas [User:T-i] für die OpenFireMap ;) ). Zum einen habe ich einen Prototypen gebaut, als Mobilversion, jedoch noch ohne anzeige von Hydranten. Abrufbar hier: http://hydrantenkarte.bplaced.net/. Wir haben uns dabei gedacht, dass Tablets mit GUTEM GPS-Chip als Hardware eingesetzt werden soll, aber noch kein Gerät gefunden, das einen guten Chip hat :( Tablets deshalb, weil auch andere Anwedungen drauf laufen können (UN-Nummern, Rettungskarte, usw.). Eine Sache habe ich allerdings noch. Gerne würde ich das bei uns an der Hochschule voranbringen und als Forschungsprojekt etablieren. Doch suchen wir da noch ein Unternehmen - und da sich hier viele innovative Unternehmen tummeln frage ich mal offen in die Runde. Es gibt Förderungen! Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- Am 3. Juni 2010 16:32 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de: Hallo, Am Freitag 28 Mai 2010 22:05:36 schrieb Sven Geggus: André Reichelt andr...@online.de wrote: Da hast Du etwas missverstanden. Es ist nicht NICHT änderbar sondern Änderungen müssen zunächst freigeschaltet werden. Im Prinzip wird also so lange weiterhin der alte Versionsstand ausgegeben bis der neue Versionsstand von genügend anderen Mitgliedern bestätigt wurde. Um Gottes willen nicht diesen Unfug den es in der Wikipedia seit neuestem gibt. Manche Leute sind gleicher als andere... Nein danke! +1 Als Alternative und Lösung auch für andere Fälle könnte man vielleicht überlegen, ob man einen Node nicht mit absoluter, sondern mit relativer Position zu vorhandenen Daten, Bsp. Straßenachse, angeben könnte. Verschiebe ich eine Straße um ein paar Meter, weil ich das inzwischen besser messen kann als früher, müssen alle Bushaltestellen, Müllcontainer, ... manuell verschoben werden. Die Info, dass der Hydrant oder weiß ich was 8m von der Ecke A/B-Straße und 6m aus der Achse liegt, beschreibt seine Lage sowieso besser und kann benutzt werden, um die neue Position automatisch zu berechnen. Vielleicht ist er dann immer noch absolut um 4m verkehrt, aber der Feuerwehrhäuptling wird seinen Wasserspender kaum nach absoluten UTM- Koordinaten suchen, sondern in der Regel vor Hausnummer xy. Wir hätten dann eine innere Genauigkeit, die wir mit unseren Methoden wesentlich genauer hinkriegen als die absolute, und die für den Benutzer draußen genau das ist, was er braucht. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hallo Elmar, www.openfiremap.org Sieht hübsch aus in Klewe! an der Hochschule voranbringen und als Forschungsprojekt etablieren Von den Wehren wird gewünscht: - PDF-Export - Unterscheidung Oberflur/Unterflur/Saugstelle - offline auf Android Von den Mappern wird gewünscht: - Übersicht wo Hydranten erfasst sind (z=9..12) Finanzielle/idelle Förderung ist sicher über die Stadt möglich. Gemeinsam mit der Uni würden sie ja auch die Lorbeeren ernten :-) Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hey Markus, danke für deine Antwort, aber es heißt Kleve :) In der Tat. du hast die Anforderungen auf den Kopf getroffen. Wobei ob Android, iOS oder Win7 noch nicht klar ist. Das hängt an der Hardware. Und das ist das Problem. Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau, haben leider keine EGNOS-Unterstützung. Und zur Förderung. Die Förderung ist leider nur von Unternehmen, nicht aber von Kommunen beantragbar - leider. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- Am 7. Juni 2011 11:38 schrieb Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: Hallo Elmar, www.openfiremap.org Sieht hübsch aus in Klewe! an der Hochschule voranbringen und als Forschungsprojekt etablieren Von den Wehren wird gewünscht: - PDF-Export - Unterscheidung Oberflur/Unterflur/Saugstelle - offline auf Android Von den Mappern wird gewünscht: - Übersicht wo Hydranten erfasst sind (z=9..12) Finanzielle/idelle Förderung ist sicher über die Stadt möglich. Gemeinsam mit der Uni würden sie ja auch die Lorbeeren ernten :-) Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Kandidaten fuer weitere tile layer auf osm.org?
Am 03.06.2011 08:20, schrieb Sarah Hoffmann: Hallo, On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 07:49:32PM +, Sven Geggus wrote: Kai Kruegerkakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Die Frage ist nun kennt jemand / betreibt jemand einen Karten-layer der diese Kriteren erfuellen wuerde und somit auf osm.org aufgenommen werden koennte? Es waere schoen wenn wir dort eine groessere Vielfahlt erreichen koennten und das grosse Potential von OSM besser zu verdeutlichen. Der Wanderrouten Overlay von Lonvia über den weiter unten diskutiert wird fällt mir spontan ein. Prinzipiell hätte ich da nichts dagegen. Ob der Server den zusätzlichen Load aushält, müsste man sehen. Aber er muss ja einfach nur statische Dateien ausliefern. Allerdings ist das ganze natürlich nur ein Overlay und ich glaube, die TWG hat eher nach vollständigen Karten gesucht. Wenn das der Fall sein sollte, würde ich das doch zu überdenken geben. Gerade die Möglichkeit, Karten eben auch als Overlay rendern zu können, ist eine zusätzliche Möglichkeit, die man anhand von OSM demonstrieren kann. Insofern sehe ich nicht, was ernsthaft dagegen spräche. Gruß Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hallo Elmar, ich weiß, das die Firma Logiball auch in etwa die gleiche Richtung arbeitet. http://www.logiball.de/bn-bos.html Gleichzeitig sind sie als Sponsoren bei OSM Veranstaltungen aktiv: http://stateofthemap.org/ Vielleicht gibt es dort einen Ansprechpartner für Dich... (oder aber Sie sehen Dich als konkurrenz, das weiß ich nicht...) Auf jeden Fall viel Erfolg für Dein Projekt! mit freundlichen Grüßen Dominik Wegerle -- Dominik Wegerle fortunequest o...@dwegerle.eu Am 07.06.2011 12:16, schrieb Elmar Burke: Hey Markus, danke für deine Antwort, aber es heißt Kleve :) In der Tat. du hast die Anforderungen auf den Kopf getroffen. Wobei ob Android, iOS oder Win7 noch nicht klar ist. Das hängt an der Hardware. Und das ist das Problem. Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau, haben leider keine EGNOS-Unterstützung. Und zur Förderung. Die Förderung ist leider nur von Unternehmen, nicht aber von Kommunen beantragbar - leider. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- Am 7. Juni 2011 11:38 schrieb Markusliste12a4...@gmx.de: Hallo Elmar, www.openfiremap.org Sieht hübsch aus in Klewe! an der Hochschule voranbringen und als Forschungsprojekt etablieren Von den Wehren wird gewünscht: - PDF-Export - Unterscheidung Oberflur/Unterflur/Saugstelle - offline auf Android Von den Mappern wird gewünscht: - Übersicht wo Hydranten erfasst sind (z=9..12) Finanzielle/idelle Förderung ist sicher über die Stadt möglich. Gemeinsam mit der Uni würden sie ja auch die Lorbeeren ernten :-) Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hallo Elmar, Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau Die Genauigkeit liegt bei ~10m. Damit lässt sich das Hydrantenschild sicher finden? EGNOS-Unterstützung Da sind wir dran - ich werde berichten (Herbst). Die Förderung ist leider nur von Unternehmen beantragbar. Klewe betreibt sicher auch eigene kommunnale Unternehmen. Wenn der Bürgermeister will gibts da bestimmt einen Workaround. Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Am 07.06.2011 12:50, schrieb Markus: Klewe ich meinte natürlich *Kleve* Sorry, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projektidee: Segmentierung von OSM-Daten
Hallo, mit TileStache und Polymaps gibt es einen Ansatz zum Browser-basierten Rendering von GeoJSON Tiles. mapsforge für Android ist ein Projekt der FU Berlin, hat wohl ein in Tiles unterteiltes Dateiformat [1] und bestimmt schon einige damit verbundene Fragestellungen bezüglich Rendering und Routing gelöst. Links hierzu und weitere im Forum Thread Rendering auf dem Clientrechner [2]. Ich finde das ein sehr spannendes Thema. Meine Idealvorstellung wäre ein Service, der vollständige Vektordaten live für eine Slippy Map ausliefert, die im Client on-the-fly gerendert werden, und alles was man zum Rendern einer eigenen Karte benötigt, wäre ein CSS-basiertes Stylesheet wie z.B. Cascadenik oder Carto. Das würde auch interaktive Karten ermöglichen, z.B. Anzeige aller Tags eines Objekts oder das Ein-/Ausblenden einzelner Elemente wie z.B. Grenzen, Stromleitungen oder POIs. [1] http://code.google.com/p/mapsforge/wiki/ConceptualDesignMapFileFormat [2] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12496 Gruß, ikonor ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hey hey, unser Ziel ist es ja, die Hydranten zu finden. Die Hydrantenschilder sind oft defekt, falsch. Die Hydranten liegen bei uns auf'n Land zu oft im Graben, der mit Gras zugewuchert ist. Und dann den Hydranten - analog zum Geocachen - direkt zu finden, quasi zu wissen, wo der Spaten ansetzen muss (also einen Quadratmeter zu untersuchen geht deutlich schneller als einen Durchmesser von 10m zu untersuchen. Aber Markus, jetzt bin ich neugierig! Sind evtl. auch andere Korrektur-Signale möglich? Kann ich dich evtl. mal Off-List kontaktieren? Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- Am 7. Juni 2011 12:50 schrieb Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: Hallo Elmar, Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau Die Genauigkeit liegt bei ~10m. Damit lässt sich das Hydrantenschild sicher finden? EGNOS-Unterstützung Da sind wir dran - ich werde berichten (Herbst). Die Förderung ist leider nur von Unternehmen beantragbar. Klewe betreibt sicher auch eigene kommunnale Unternehmen. Wenn der Bürgermeister will gibts da bestimmt einen Workaround. Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] [OT] Markierung bestimmter Punkte / Bereiche auf einer Karte
Hallo, evtl. passt da Ushahidi: http://www.ushahidi.com/products/ushahidi-platform Gruß, ikonor ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] osmandcreator ... Erfahrungen
Moin ! hat einer von Euch schon einmal eigene Konfigurationen für OSMAND mit osmandcreator erstellt und Erfahrungen sammeln können? Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Am 07.06.2011 12:50, schrieb Markus: Hallo Elmar, Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau Die Genauigkeit liegt bei ~10m. Damit lässt sich das Hydrantenschild sicher finden? Gegebenfalls lässt sich da ja auch noch eine Bilddatenbank mit dranhängen die das Auffinden deutlich erleichtert (Foto vom Hydranten in der realen Umgebung, notfalls noch mit einem Marker ins Bild gepinselt...). Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Am 07.06.2011 13:03, schrieb Elmar Burke: Hey hey, unser Ziel ist es ja, die Hydranten zu finden. Die Hydrantenschilder sind oft defekt, falsch. Die Hydranten liegen bei uns auf'n Land zu oft im Graben, der mit Gras zugewuchert ist. Und dann den Hydranten - analog zum Geocachen - direkt zu finden, quasi zu wissen, wo der Spaten ansetzen muss (also einen Quadratmeter zu untersuchen geht deutlich schneller als einen Durchmesser von 10m zu untersuchen. Erstaunlich bei den ganzen Brandschutzvorschriften dass man noch keine Lösung gefunden hat Hydranten einsatzfähig und auffindbar zu pflegen... Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Naja, sie werden ja jährlich kontrolliert, eigentlich läuft alles ganz gut - bis jetzt ist jedes Feuer ausgegangen :) Aber es kommt halt auf Minuten, wenn sogar auf Sekunden an... Mit freundlichen Grüßen Elmar Burke -- Tel.: 0 28 21 - 59 080 89 Mobil: 01 512 35 45 513(t-mobile) Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/elmarburke Twitter: http://twitter.com/elmarburke -- Am 7. Juni 2011 15:20 schrieb Garry garr...@gmx.de: Am 07.06.2011 13:03, schrieb Elmar Burke: Hey hey, unser Ziel ist es ja, die Hydranten zu finden. Die Hydrantenschilder sind oft defekt, falsch. Die Hydranten liegen bei uns auf'n Land zu oft im Graben, der mit Gras zugewuchert ist. Und dann den Hydranten - analog zum Geocachen - direkt zu finden, quasi zu wissen, wo der Spaten ansetzen muss (also einen Quadratmeter zu untersuchen geht deutlich schneller als einen Durchmesser von 10m zu untersuchen. Erstaunlich bei den ganzen Brandschutzvorschriften dass man noch keine Lösung gefunden hat Hydranten einsatzfähig und auffindbar zu pflegen... Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Am 03.06.2010 16:32, schrieb Wolfgang: Als Alternative und Lösung auch für andere Fälle könnte man vielleicht überlegen, ob man einen Node nicht mit absoluter, sondern mit relativer Position zu vorhandenen Daten, Bsp. Straßenachse, angeben könnte. Verschiebe ich eine Straße um ein paar Meter, weil ich das inzwischen besser messen kann als früher, müssen alle Bushaltestellen, Müllcontainer, ... manuell verschoben werden. Die Info, dass der Hydrant oder weiß ich was 8m von der Ecke A/B-Straße und 6m aus der Achse liegt, beschreibt seine Lage sowieso besser und kann benutzt werden, um die neue Position automatisch zu berechnen. Vielleicht ist er dann immer noch absolut um 4m verkehrt, aber der Feuerwehrhäuptling wird seinen Wasserspender kaum nach absoluten UTM- Koordinaten suchen, sondern in der Regel vor Hausnummer xy. Wir hätten dann eine innere Genauigkeit, die wir mit unseren Methoden wesentlich genauer hinkriegen als die absolute, und die für den Benutzer draußen genau das ist, was er braucht. Du vergisst dabei dass Strassen nicht nur in OSM sondern auch in der Realität im Rahmen von Verkehrsberuhigungen etc. Ihre Position verändern. Da helfen die relativen Positionen dann auch nicht weiter. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Zwischen Forest und Scrub
Am 06.06.2011 18:04, schrieb Torsten Leistikow: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer schrieb am 06.06.2011 17:42: Du müsstest irgendwie das Alter (Pflanzdatum, auch ungefähr) der Bäume unterbringen (bzw. die durchschnittliche Wuchshöhe - nicht gerade ein dauerhaftes Attribut allerdings). Naja, wenn man keinen Zaubertrank hat, wachsen Baeume nicht so schnell. Problematisch sehe ich eher, dass man das nur sehr schwer abschaetzen kann und dass das abhaengig von Baumart, Dichte des Bewuchses, Dichte des Unterholzes und was weiss ich nicht noch alles, auch nicht wirklich aussagekraeftig ist. Mit objektiven Kriterien wird man das also kaum brauchbar erfassen und auswerten koennen. Bliebe noch eine abstrakte Einschaetzung wie forest_type=gradeX, aber auch da wuerde ich keine wirklich brauchbaren Daten erwarten. Warum soll dort nicht funktionieren was bei highway funktioniert? OK, die Bereitschaft das zu mappen wird geringer sein.. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Am 07.06.2011 15:15, schrieb Garry: Am 07.06.2011 12:50, schrieb Markus: Die Geräte sind noch zu ungenau Die Genauigkeit liegt bei ~10m. Damit lässt sich das Hydrantenschild sicher finden? Gegebenfalls lässt sich da ja auch noch eine Bilddatenbank mit dranhängen die das Auffinden deutlich erleichtert (Foto vom Hydranten in der realen Umgebung, notfalls noch mit einem Marker ins Bild gepinselt...). +1 image=openfiremap.org/img/12345 evtl. mehrere Bilder Allerdings klang das nach plattem Land, 100km gerade Landstraße ohne Abwechslung:-) Da sehen die Bilder dann alle gleich aus. Man könnte da ganz unbürokratisch, wenn die Schilder fehlen, einfach mal einen Holzpfosten in der Nähe einschlagen und dann knippsen? Ach nee ist ja Deutschland. Aber ein Baum im Bild, Schuppen, Hausecke, Leitplanke,... reicht schon zur Orientierung. Beim knipsen Stock ins Bild halten wie die Vermesser, oder einfach Typ der auf die Stelle zeigt. Da schreibe man kurzen Text und gebe das denen mit die die Bilder machen damit die wissen worauf es ankommt. Dazu nimmt man 2x im Jahr die Lehrlinge, freiwillige FW oder so. Lässt die nach der OSM Karte eine Wanderung machen, schönes Wetter aussuchen, Bier im Rucksack (alkfrei) Spaten in der Hand. Dann die Deckel freimachen, neu Rot anstreichen, im Tablett markieren wenn ein Schild neu aufgestellt werden muß (kann man auch mit osm machen). Am Tagesende treffen sich die Teams beim vorgeheizten Grill und vorgekühltem Bier. Da sollte man nach paar Tagen, langem WE, oder so eine Gegend doch so halbwegs in Ordnung gebracht haben, mit etwas Spaß. Ein enthusiastischer Mapper kann dann auch noch die anderen Dinge auf der Tour notieren, aber man nerve die anderen nicht damit Hausnummern zu erfassen. Es werden die Daten doch hoffentlich auch offline auf den Handgeräten vorgehalten? Keinen single point of failure einbauen. Was würde man denn machen wenn mal doch Netz/Technik ausfällt? Warten bis es regnet? Die Wasserentnahmestellen sollte man auch ohne Technik finden^Wsehen können. Wenn es mit der Technik superschnell geht ist es ein nettes extra. Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Hallo Elmar, Hydrantenschilder defekt, falsch Hydranten im Graben, mit Gras zugewuchert Da bin ich ja froh nicht in Kleve zu wohnen - ich dachte, Hydranten sind sicherheitsrelevante Brandschutzeinrichtungen ;-) Bei solchen Bedingungen könnte vielleicht ein DGPS helfen? Kostet zwar - aber gemessen am vielleicht verhinderten Schaden...? Wäre m.E. eine Investition wert... Vielleicht weiss einer der DGPS-Profis hier genaueres? Gruss, Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für Daten, Karte und Renderer
Am 06.06.2011 17:42, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hallo, M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: das verstehe ich jetzt nicht, inwiefern man durch genauere Grenzen Dass eine als einzelne Linie gezeichnete Grenze genauer ist als die Verwendung der Strassengeometrie, ist mitnichten erwiesen. behindert werden kann, wo Flächen nicht mit Straßengraphen verbunden sind. Hättest Du da mal ein Beispiel? Nein, aber ich habe Leute sagen hoeren, was ich in meinem vorigen Posting schrieb: Dass jemand keine Lust hat, eine Strassengeometrie zu verfeinern, wenn sich dadurch tonnenweise Ueberschneidungen mit dem angrenzenden Wald ergeben und er die von Hand zusaetzlich korrigieren muss. Entweder es gibt solche Mapper, die sich behindert fuehlen. Dann sollen die von mir aus gern die Gegend so (um)mappen, dass sie gut damit arbeiten koennen. Oder es gibt sie nicht. Dann ist es auch recht. kann), da erfordert es der Respekt vor der Arbeit der anderen, dass man den persönlichen Stil etwas an das anpasst, was man schon vorfindet (solange es nur um Stil und nicht um Verbesserungen geht). Ja, das kommt sicher auf den Umfang der Aenderungen an. Einem Gebiet seinen persoenlichen Stil aufdruecken, weil man gerade mal im Vorbeifahren einen Briefkasten mappt, ist natuerlich nicht ok. andere Karten nutzen OSM probeweise sogar bis Z.21) , sehe ich nicht, inwiefern man einer Reduktion der Detaillierung Ich glaube, Du hast da eine etwas verkorkste Perspektive. Du scheinst anzunehmen, dass alles, was jemand vom Luftbild abmalt, automatisch hochgenau und detailliert ist. Ich wage mal die Behauptung: Der Fehler, in Metern, den ich einbaue, wenn ich den Strassen-Way als Begrenzung meines Waldes nehme, ist im Durchschnitt geringer als der Fehler, den ich einbaue, wenn ich das (Bing-)Luftbild nicht vorher ordentlich an GPS-Tracks justiere. Ja, das wird oft behauptet, aber je nach Art des weiteren Verfeinerns, dass man im Sinn hat, kann es eben auch genau andersrum sein. wenn man die Straßen zusätzlich als Flächen eintragen will, ist die Lage sicher eindeutig. Das ist eine ganz andere Baustelle. Aus meiner Sicht wird das in Städten auf jeden Fall kommen, weil man anders ein sauberes Rendering, das auch Informationen zur realen Form transportiert, nicht erhalten kann. Informationen zur realen Form zu transportieren, ist unter Umstaenden aber etwas anderes als sauberes Rendering. Und sauberes Rendering bekommt man ganz bestimmt auch ohne Strassen als Flaechen hin. Aber das ist, wie gesagt, wieder eine andere Geschichte. Eine Karte ist kein Luftbild. Auch eine sehr gute Karte nicht. da der Wald nichts mit der Straße zu tun hat, muss ich den auch nicht verfeinern, wenn ich an der Straße schraube. Andere muessen das vielleicht schon (wenn, wie oben geschildert, die verfeinerte Strasse sonst zuweilen den Wald ueberschneidet, was ja eher selten ist.) Klar, ein Zaun der an der Straße langläuft müsste evtl. verfeinert werden Wenn wir es mit einem Zaun zu tun haben, dann hoert das natuerlich auf, dass man die Strasse als Waldrand benutzen kann. Aber dann haben wir das gleiche Ding mit dem Zaun; man koennte dann einfach den Zaun als Waldrand benutzen, oder man koennte argumentieren, dies sei ungenau und der Zaun stehe ja ausserhalb des Waldes.. Ja, das behauptest Du immer wieder, aber das ist halt eine Beurteilung, die Du fuer Dich treffen kannst, aber nicht fuer andere Mapper; die werden eventuell davon eben nicht gebremst, sondern denen geht die Arbeit schneller von der Hand. sicher gehen einem manche Bearbeitungen schneller von der Hand, wenn man sie ungenau macht. Du behauptest immer wieder, dass es ungenauer sei, den Strassen-Way als Waldrand zu verwenden, aber das ist eine unzulaessige Verallgemeinerung. Oder sagen wir: Es ist vielleicht genauer, aber nicht richtiger - genauso wie eine Loesung mit fuenf Nachkommastellen in der Matheklausur genauer ist, aber nicht richtiger. Strassen werden potentiell genauer erfasst als Waldränder. Die Wälder haben in den Daten für die meisten einen ehr dekorativen Charakter während die Strassen- und Wegedaten intensiv genutzt werden. Wenn Du schon mit Deiner Matheklausur kommst - die Grundlagen des technischen Zeichen dass man ein genaues Mass nicht mit einem ungenauen Mass verkettet wenn man ein genaues Ergebniss haben möchte sind Dir bekannt? Wer die Strasse bearbeiten möchte soll die Strasse bearbeiten können und wer die Waldgrenze bearbeiten möchte eben die Waldgrenze. Er sollte nicht genötigt werden beides anfassen zu müssen was er dann im Zweifelsfalls lassen wird - keine Verbesserung der Daten. Garry ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr
Moin, Elmar Burke schrieb: Naja, sie werden ja jährlich kontrolliert, eigentlich läuft alles ganz gut - bis jetzt ist jedes Feuer ausgegangen :) Aber es kommt halt auf Minuten, wenn sogar auf Sekunden an... nix für ungut - aber da beißen sich ein wenig die Zeitangaben von Pflege/Kontrolle und erwarteter Einsatzbereitschaft! ;-) Sucht man sich halt für jede Übung einen anderen Hydranten aus. Oder macht bei kleiner Besetzung (unter 'ner Staffel) mal 'ne Hydrantenkontrollrunde bei der Bewegungsfahrt - kann man ja sogar mit Koordinatenfahren verbinden. :-) Ist schließlich auch sinnvoller Dienst. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Zwischen Forest und Scrub
Garry schrieb am 07.06.2011 15:46: Warum soll dort nicht funktionieren was bei highway funktioniert? In erster Linie, weil es beim highway mit dem tracktype auch nicht wirklich funktioniert, was ja auch regelmaessig wieder Thema in den Diskussionen ist. OK, die Bereitschaft das zu mappen wird geringer sein.. Das kommt erschwerend hinzu. Selbst hier in Deutschland sind auf dem platten Land genug Waldstuecke noch ueberhaupt nicht (woraus man natuerlich schliessen kann, dass da auch keiner lang kommt, den eine genauere Unterteilung interessieren koennte). Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für Daten, Karte und Renderer
Garry schrieb am 07.06.2011 16:03: Wer die Strasse bearbeiten möchte soll die Strasse bearbeiten können und wer die Waldgrenze bearbeiten möchte eben die Waldgrenze. Noch mal zur Erinnerung: Wir reden hier von dem Fall, wo ein Wald bis an eine Strasse heran reicht. = Waldgrenze = Strasse Es macht also keinerlei Sinn, ein Objekt genauer und ein Objekt weniger genau in der Datenbank haben zu wollen. Gruss Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für Daten, Karte und Renderer
Hallo, On 06/07/11 16:03, Garry wrote: Wer die Strasse bearbeiten möchte soll die Strasse bearbeiten können und wer die Waldgrenze bearbeiten möchte eben die Waldgrenze. Er sollte nicht genötigt werden beides anfassen zu müssen was er dann im Zweifelsfalls lassen wird - keine Verbesserung der Daten. Das ist jetzt mein allerletztes Statement zu diesem Thema, weil ich mich zu wiederholen beginne. Bitte lies das folgende aufmerksam durch, ich habe es Martin schon geschrieben, aber Du hast das offenbar nicht gelesen. Es ist eine Situation denkbar, in der die Strasse und der Waldrand als separate Linien nebeneinander gemappt sind, beide relativ grob, und in der eine Verfeinerung der Strasse dann dazu fuehrt, dass die Strasse den - immer noch grob gezeichneten - Wald stueckweise ueberlappt. Der Mapper waere hier also genoetigt, um der Topologie Rechnung zu tragen, den Wald ebenfalls zu verfeinern; waere hingegen die Strasse zugleich der Waldrand, bliebe im diese Mehrarbeit erspart. Das, was Du schreibst, kann also je nach Situation mal als Argument fuer die eine und mal als Argument fuer die andere Art zu mappen dienen. Keine von beiden Arten ist besser; es kommt auf die Gesamtsituation und auf den Mapper und auf die Umstaende an. Alles andere ist eine unzulaessige Vereinfachung und der Versuch, anderen aufzudiktieren, wie sie ihre Arbeit machen sollen. Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Projektidee: Segmentierung von OSM-Daten
Hallo ant, On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 23:43 +0200, ant wrote: Die Idee, OSM-Daten in Chunks - oder Segmente, wie ich es nennen würde - aufzuteilen, ist großartig. Mit den Segmenten ließen sich Extrakte zusammenbasteln, die den verschiedenen Anforderungen an Größe und Umfang gerecht würden, und die Verteilung von OSM-Daten über Bittorrent und Co. würde möglich werden, ohne dass irgendjemand dafür den gesamten Planeten herunterladen müsste. Voraussetzung dafür ist natürlich ein reibungsloses Splitten und Zusammensetzen der Quadrate. Ich möchte mich näher mit dieser Problemstellung auseinandersetzen und meine Frage ist nun: Arbeitet schon irgendjemand daran? Neben den schon genannten Projekten fällt mir noch Tiledata2 ein: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_data_server http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tiledata2 und Rana als entsprechende Client-Anwendung: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rana Gruß Mitja ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Zwischen Forest und Scrub
hi Jan, ... kann mir einer sagen wie man so ein Zwischending zwischen landuse=forest und natural=scrub taggen würde?? Konkret geht es um eine Fläche auf dem Darß (Zingst) im Bereich http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.43426lon=12.7108zoom=17 sieht für mich nach einem Grünland (Brach- bzw. Ruderalfläche o. ggf. junges Gebüsch) - mit ein paar Bauminseln aus. Ich sehe das so: Gebüsche sind etwa 3(-5)m hoch und mind. 5m breit und stehen solo, ohne Wald, sonst sind sie Waldrand, also Wald. Charakteristisch ist, das Wald oder Gebüsch eine eigenes Klima bilden kann, sprich: der Wind da nicht durchpfeifen kann, daher eine Mindestbreite beim Gebüsch. Entsprechend sind ein paar Bäume kein Wald und man könnte sie hier einzeln mappen. Mindestflächen für Wald können z.B. 1ha sein (nach Kartieranleitungen und Landesforstgesetzen). Bei 3(-5)m durchschn. Höhe kann man Gebüsche mit Gebüscharten ruhig Gebüsch nennen (Holunder, Hasel,...). Wenn da allerdings viele junge Baumarten drin stehen, würde ich bei 4-5m schon zu einem Wald tendieren. Was gemappt wird, soll ja 4-5 Jahre Bestand haben etc. Insofern: nach Zwischendingen würde ich nicht Ausschau halten. Ggf. einzeln mappen. Grüße, t. ... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Zwischen Forest und Scrub
Am 7. Juni 2011 23:42 schrieb tshrub my-email-confirmat...@online.de: Charakteristisch ist, das Wald oder Gebüsch eine eigenes Klima bilden kann, sprich: der Wind da nicht durchpfeifen kann, daher eine Mindestbreite beim Gebüsch. ein Gebüsch ist bei jeder Größe ein Orientierungspunkt. Entsprechend sind ein paar Bäume kein Wald und man könnte sie hier einzeln mappen. Mindestflächen für Wald können z.B. 1ha sein (nach Kartieranleitungen und Landesforstgesetzen). ja, kleinere Baumflächen sind kein Wald, aber einzeln mappen ist bei mehr als ein paar Bäumen m.E. auch nicht sinnvoll (bzw. wer das tun will, kann das ruhig machen, aber das werden die wenigsten sein) dazu kommt, dass, wenn die Bäume dicht stehen, sie teilweise auch nicht auseinanderzuhalten sind. landcover=trees ist in jedem Fall richtig, ob man landuse=forest nur für echten Wald benutzt, oder für alle Arten von Baumbestand, finde ich nicht so wichtig, die Größe hat man bei Polygonen ja und kann anhand dessen beurteilen, ob es ein echter Wald ist, oder nur ein paar Bäume. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Problematik der Ortsnamenzusätze
Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net writes: Nun habe ich bei OSMAND [1] kürzlich festgestellt das dieses Programm z.b. immer bei der Ortsnamensuche die Namen von vorne durchsucht. Wenn man jetzt aber z.b. Zingst sucht, dann findet das Programm diesen Ort nicht, da im Tag name der Wert Ostseebad Zingst steht. Ja, diese zusätze sind im haupttag unsinn. Leider setzen sich bei solchen fragen langfristig stets die verwaltungsfuzzis oder heimathirsche durch... Merkbefreit sind nur die Schildas wie Wittenberg... -- Karl Eichwalder ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [osm-ve] vandalismo en Caracas?
Gracias daniel. Veré como se hace para recuperar data. A la fecha el usuario no ha respondido. El 07/06/2011 04:03, dan...@web.de escribió: Am 07.06.2011 00:25, schrieb J. Hernán Ramírez R.: 2011/6/6 dan...@web.de Hola gente! Hoy ya pregunté en el foro, ahora acá: cu... http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12576 Por casualidad encontré un changeset en Caracas con el comentario I removed arrows fro... No, no puedo. vivo a unos cuantos miles de kilometros. Parece que el usuario borró el tag oneway=yes en un montón de calles. Y en otro... Creo que no quiso sabotear. Escribio que quiso lograr un mapa sin las flechas (oneway=yes) - y se imaginó que borrando los tags es la mejor idea. No entendio nada de OSM, esto si; pero no creo que nos quiso molestar. Por ahi habría que revertir sus cambios, pero primero quise saber qué dice la comunid... Lo de revertir un changeset tan grande no es cosa facil. Si se decide revertir, pienso que seria lo mejor pedir ayuda a gente que haya hecho esto ya muchas veces. Ya me había pasado con un usuario en mérida, éste me comentó que estaba novato y que tendría ... Geogast Yo mismo busqué en mis ediciones y no encontré. En los changesets de movilistica no aparece. Capaz me acuerde mal, no más. Saludos desde lejos, Daniel Gracias por el reporte... Saludos, Daniel ___ Talk-ve mailing list Talk-ve@open... ___ Talk-ve mailing list Talk-ve@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ve ___ Talk-ve mailing list Talk-ve@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ve
Re: [Talk-it] mapping party montagna
Il 07 giugno 2011 00:00, Matteo matservi...@yahoo.it ha scritto: Allora Luciano, il mio amico, mi consiglia Prato Selva[1] (piccola stazione sciistica), in quanto c'è un albergo per dormire e ci sono diversi sentieri Mi sembra una buona zona da mappare con dei paesi come Fano Adriano, Pietracamela, Intermesoli che sono da fare completamente su OSM. Ciao Robi ps Giusto per la cronaca in zona c'è già passato Mr. street view ... :-| ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] maneggio
Quali tag usare? Se possibile 2 soluzioni: - temporanea, indicazione puntuale della presenza dello stesso - definitiva, con indicazione dell'area occupata dallo stesso. grazie maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Fwd: Nautical lights in Sardinia
I've received this email, and thus forwarding it to you on the italian list. CCing the original sender. -- Forwarded message -- From: Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de Date: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 13:04 Subject: Fwd: Nautical lights in Sardinia To: talk-it-ow...@openstreetmap.org Dear list-owner, please can you forward my mail to talk-it? (I'm not a member there) Thanks, Markus Original-Nachricht Betreff: Nautical lights in Sardinia Datum: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 12:06:28 +0200 Von: Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de An: talk...@openstreetmap.org Dear mappers and sailors, we import some nautical lights around Sardinia. The tags will follow to the official data. The position is approximately (max diff 180m). So it would be nice if you can help to move it to the exact position. If there is a existing man_made=lighthouse please merge it. Here you find a illustrated How-To: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:seamark:fixme Thanks for help! Markus PS: if somebody can translate the HowTo to French - that would be great! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:seamark:fixme http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/it:Key:seamark:fixme -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: Nautical lights in Sardinia
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote: So it would be nice if you can help to move it to the exact position. If there is a existing man_made=lighthouse please merge it. Moving them to their exact position is easy with Italian aerial photos. However we need their approximate coordinates. Can you send us a GPX file / OSM extract? Thanks, Federico ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] [OT] Problema GPX su Dakota 20
ciao a tutti, ho provato a trovare una soluzione...ma niente... ho un Garmin Dakota 20 che memorizza le tracce GPX spezzandole ogni tot, quindi per varie ore di registrazione avrò varie tracce salvate nella cartella archived sulla memoria interna. Temo sia un limite di punti immagazzinabile (ho impostato la registrazione a 1 secondo). Non sono riuscito a impostare la registrazione su scheda micro SD (non trovo l'opzione) come sul vecchio Garmin Etrex Legend Hcx che salvava sulla micro SD una sola traccia per ogni giorno. Strano che un modello più recente come il Dakota non abbia la medesima funzionalità dell'Etrex!! La cosa è particolarmente irritante in quanto non riesco ad ottenere una traccia utilizzabile immediatamente su JOSM o da caricare su qualche sito tipo GPSies :( qualcuno saprebbe aiutarmi a svelare l'arcano? grazie ciao Tiziano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] [OT] Problema GPX su Dakota 20
Rassegnati :-) funziona proprio cosi' Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 07 giugno 2011 17:48, Tiziano D'Angelo tiziano.dang...@gmail.comha scritto: ciao a tutti, ho provato a trovare una soluzione...ma niente... ho un Garmin Dakota 20 che memorizza le tracce GPX spezzandole ogni tot, quindi per varie ore di registrazione avrò varie tracce salvate nella cartella archived sulla memoria interna. Temo sia un limite di punti immagazzinabile (ho impostato la registrazione a 1 secondo). Non sono riuscito a impostare la registrazione su scheda micro SD (non trovo l'opzione) come sul vecchio Garmin Etrex Legend Hcx che salvava sulla micro SD una sola traccia per ogni giorno. Strano che un modello più recente come il Dakota non abbia la medesima funzionalità dell'Etrex!! La cosa è particolarmente irritante in quanto non riesco ad ottenere una traccia utilizzabile immediatamente su JOSM o da caricare su qualche sito tipo GPSies :( qualcuno saprebbe aiutarmi a svelare l'arcano? grazie ciao Tiziano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] mapping party montagna
La ricerca fatta dal buon Ale è stata veramente buona la zona sembra ottima... leggete sotto. Inoltre ecco qui anche un bella mappa [0] (64 MB) [0] http://marcelatebag.googlecode.com/files/Emap.mappe.carta.sentieri.cai.Gran.Sasso.d-Italia.completo.by.Valerio99.tif -- Messaggio inoltrato -- Da: ale_z...@libero.it ale_z...@libero.it Date: 07 giugno 2011 16:23 Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] mapping party montagna A: lucadel...@gmail.com Ciao, ho dato un'occhiata alla mappa, se l'hai scaricata anche te ti darò la posizione dei luoghi in coordinate dei pixel (basta che la apri con Gimp). Come zona vedrei bene il Monte Corvo (ovviamente non essendoci mai stato giudico solo guardando la mappa), le coordinate in pixel sono: (3935, 1565). Rifugi in zona c'è il Rifugio Fioretti a Stazzo di Solagno (3425, 1760 px) che è raggiungibile parcheggiando l'auto su a San Martino (2690, 1125px) CIT.: Dalla S.S. 80, nei pressi della frazione di Ortolano, si attraversa la diga del lago di Provvidenza e si continua sulla sterrata, che inizialmente costeggia il lago e poi risale la Valle del Chiarino in +/- 4,5 km, fino a raggiungere la restaurata Masseria Cappelli (1262 mt) dove è possibile parcheggiare. La chiesetta di San Martino, poco oltre, segna la fine della carrareccia percorribile durante la buona stagione qui inizia infatti il divieto di transito. Altri rifugi in zona sono: Rifugio Del Monte (4020, 925px) e un altro qui (3015, 2170px). Facendo base al Fioretti siamo relativamente vicini alla macchina, così non dobbiamo camallare troppo i viveri, inoltre ci sono veramente tanti sentieri in zona. Come link interessanti ho trovato: http://www.lagagransasso.it/gs/escursioni_gs.htm http://www.ilgransasso.com/itinerari.html http://www.provincia.teramo.it/agenzia-giovani/viaggi-vacanze/i-rifugi-del- gran-sasso Guarda cosa ti sembra che poi chiediamo in lista. Ale -- ciao Luca http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/ www.lucadelu.org ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
