from:"Gregory"

Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

2020-11-08 Thread Gregory Williams

On Sun, 2020-11-08 at 15:17 +, Jeremy Harris wrote:
> On 19/10/2020 20:14, Gregory Williams wrote:
> > I've now got round to updating the code on my solar comparison site
> Suggestion for further improvement:  When a building is identifiable
> associated with a set of generators, only count one for comparison
> against the FIT data.  Then (say) a house with panels on two
> different
> roof-faces will not over-count for the geographical region.
> 
> (I just found an LSOA with 4 of 13 mapped.  But 2 were on one home.
> A terrace too, so now I must split it, so the 1 on another home in
> the block is really distinct)

Jeremy,

That certainly is one reason why the "completeness" figure is just a
guide, rather than an absolute. Perhaps you've seen that there are, for
example, some regions that have greater than 100% "completeness", and
I'm sure that multiple installations on a property does contribute to
this. Comparison with the FiT register will always never be perfect,
since as external observers we don't really know whether the multiple
sets of modules on a property are part of the same or separate FiT
contracts.

If the multiple instances on property have the same roof orientation
then you could use a multipolygon to collate those instances together.
Obviously this wouldn't be suitable for the multiple-roof scenario that
you describe, though.

You've also, pointed towards one of the gotchas that only counting a
single installation per property would currently have in many places.
We've got plenty of places where a terrace of houses have only been
mapped as a single building. Thus several installations, each on
separate properties, would only appear to be one installation when on a
single terrace building. It does, of course, give an incentive to go
out and map the addresses individually, of course! :-)

I'll consider how implementing this may be done in the code, but I
think it'll need some general tidying of it first; so wouldn't
necessarily be available straight away.

BTW, the code does actually do something similar already wrt solar
farms, to avoid overcounting the individual lines of modules in a
plant.

Cheers,

Gregory
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

2020-10-19 Thread Gregory Williams

I've now got round to updating the code on my solar comparison site to
cater for these different ways of tagging the orientation. It considers
these tags in this order:

- generator:orientation=*
- direction=*
- tilted=no

Regular users of the site may have noticed that I also recently added
counts of mapped orientations and module counts to the chart on the
summary page. A noticeable jump in the counts for orientation should be
seen in tomorrow morning's update.

Cheers,

Gregory

On Tue, 2020-10-06 at 20:44 +0100, Dan S wrote:
> Let's officially change over to "direction" then. I've edited the
> wiki
> page to reflect that.
> 
> Best
> Dan
> 
> Op di 6 okt. 2020 om 19:40 schreef Jeremy Harris :
> > On 06/10/2020 16:44, Russ Garrett wrote:
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_Kingdom/Rooftop_Solar_PV
> > 
> > One difference I make vs. that is "direction" rather than
> > "generator:orientation".  In iD, at least, you get a nice visual
> > of the view-angle then.
> > 
> > I use a point and a module-count.  If it's flat, I use "tilted:no"
> > rather than a direction.
> > 
> > https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/YLx  is my current "look for missing
> > tags" hunter.  Pick your area then hit the Run button.
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >   Jeremy
> > 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar tagging app

2020-10-05 Thread Gregory Williams

Thanks Russ!

I was only thinking of a similar idea just the other day. I've already
gone through probably a couple of hundred installations. Perhaps a
future extensions could allow:
- A "Are you sure that's a PV system?" option -- I've seen perhaps a
couple where I'm not sure whether it's actually a PV system. Perhaps a
check from another imagery source, or a ground survey, could clear
things up?
- Click twice to measure the orientation (although perhaps more suited
to using on a computer, rather than a mobile / tablet?)

Cheers,

Gregory

On Sun, 2020-10-04 at 15:41 +0100, Russ Garrett wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I got annoyed with tagging the number of modules in solar generators,
> so I put together a quick crowdsourcing app to collect this data:
> 
> https://solartagger.ru.dev/
> 
> It's definitely a lot quicker than trying to do this in an editor!
> 
> Once we have panel counts that multiple people have agreed on, I'll
> batch insert the data into OSM using a new account - I will update
> this list once that is happening.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging of solar panels - number of modules

2020-08-29 Thread gregory

  
  
  
IIRC the code for my site only picks up "generator:solar:modules". It also 
picks up "generator:orientation" and "location".
  

  
Incidentally, I think that we've been a bit inconsistent with the latter of 
these. I think that the recommendation is for "roof" and "surface", but I know 
that I've managed to map many as "ground" too, when I've intended the same 
meaning as "surface". I've gradually changed the ones I've mapped over to 
"surface" as and when I've stumbled upon them.
  

  
  
  
  
  
>   
> On 29 Aug 2020 at 19:02, Dan Swrote:
>   
> 
>   
> Hi Donald,
>   
>
>   
> If I remember right, we started off last year tagging it as 
> "generator:modules" but then fairly early on changed to 
> "generator:solar:modules" to make the tag clearer. The latter's been the 
> recommendation on this wiki page, for a good while:
>   
>  
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_Kingdom/Rooftop_Solar_PV
>   
>
>   
> I don't know which tag(s) Gregory's page picks up, but in my (separate) 
> processing I've been handling both tag variants.
>   
>
>   
> Cheers
>   
> Dan
> 
>   
>   
> Op za 29 aug. 2020 om 18:47 schreef Donald Noble  :
>   
> >   
> > Hi,  
> >
> >   
> > I have a query regarding tagging of   solar panels, and specifically the 
> > number of modules for (domestic) rooftops. I have been tagging these with 
> > just generator:modules, but I see that generator:solar:modules is a lot 
> > more popular   on TagInfo [1], although I don't seem to find specific 
> > documentation on the   solar mapping page.   
> >   
> >
> >   
> > This issue came up as I was surprised   by the low percentage for Edinburgh 
> > with a number of modules on Gregory William's excellent   Solar Mapping 
> > stats page [2].
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> > If there is a clear consensus, I will re-tag those I have added (which is 
> > possibly a significant number of the 1161)
> >   
> >
> >   
> > Cheers, Donald
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> > [1]   https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=modules
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  Count
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  Key
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  13 906
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   generator:solar:modules
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  1 161
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   generator:modules
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  2
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   plant:solar:modules
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >  1
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   modules
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> > [2]   http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar/index.html
> >  --
> >   
> > Donald Noble
> >   http://drnoble.co.uk  -  http://flickr.com/photos/drnoble  
> > ___
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>   
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar Power mapping update Q2 2020

2020-07-02 Thread Gregory Williams

Thanks Jerry, and thanks to everyone that's continued to contribute
more coverage.

The next quarter's update to the FiT register should be published in
the next few days. So I hope to find time to update the site to use
that soon.

I continue to be amazed at the steady progress in the coverage. Though,
as you say, there are quite a few areas where the imagery either just
isn't clear enough to untangle the ambiguities, or is clear but isn't
recent enough.

Personally, I've recently been trying to concentrate on a mixture of
areas with less than 10% coverage, and on the lightly-mapped LSOA
hotspots that my tool picked out.

Cheers,

Gregory

On Thu, 2020-07-02 at 18:56 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> We passed a couple of milestones a few days ago:
> 20% of FIT totals
> 170k individual panels mapped (excluding those in solar farms)
> In terms of coverage there are now well over 50 LAs (all in England &
> Wales) with more than 50% of solar installations mapped, with around
> 10 exceeding 80%. Areas with good coverage are:
> Scottish Central Belt: helped no doubt by more atomic data much of
> the Central Belt is around 20% mapped.
> North-East (former Tyne & Wear): Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland and
> North & South Tyne.
> North Wales: Conwy, Flint, Denbigh & Wrexham. Most panels in the
> first three are in the coastal resort towns, but reasonable rural
> coverage.
> North West: recent activity has been around Preston, Blackburn Wigan
> and Chorley.
> East Midlands: mainly Leics & Notts. Improved & recent imagery for
> Leicester made a huge difference.
> West Midlands: Warwickshire, Worcestershire & Herefordshire are
> roughly in the 20-30% zone. ALso extending into the South Wales
> valleys. brianboru's detailed mapping in the latter is another good
> index of rural coverage. 
> South Coast: Bournemouth area & Southampton, all at over 50%
> More rural areas continue to be challenging: older imagery which is
> often difficult to interpret doesn't help. I've experimented in
> places where every building is already mapped by stepping through
> each building, but still one may only find 20% of the number in FIT.
> 
> London and immediately adjacent areas also have relatively little
> mapped. Imagery can be a problem, but also finding panels in older
> and/or larger housing with more complex roof shapes is hard.
> 
> One thing I'm continually amazed at is how many places have buildings
> mapped, which is very helpful for this task. However in a couple of
> places: Ribble Valley & Leicester - it is clear that better imagery
> would allow existing building outlines to be improved, but also that
> plenty of buildings have been extended, demolished or replaced. This
> type of activity lends itself to combined work using tools such as
> Tasking Manager or MapRoulette and might be worth considering in the
> future for a quarterly project.
> 
> There's still no shortage of places where a lot of panels can be
> mapped quickly, although more systematic mapping of a single LA often
> requires a couple of passes over imagery. 
> 
> Looking forward to achieving the next milestones of 200k & 25%.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Personally, I'm concentrating on areas adjacent to the existing well-
> mapped (50%+) areas with the aim of extending these areas.
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] SotM shirts to the UK

2020-06-23 Thread Gregory Marler

Now available to order!!! *£11 including delivery*

I spent too long trying to navigate the options for setting up a site.
Streetshirts ended up being the best to go with amongst all the conditions,
there's links to various options on the wiki here...
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Tshirt_shop_organization#Europe
*Deadline is 29th June*, hopefully to get to you before the conference.

I'm going to look elsewhere at buying a run of stickers and organise it on
the basis of: send me a nice message, I'll put some in the post.
Watch this space for confirmation of that.

Gregory.



On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 at 12:40, Dan S  wrote:

> Hi Gregory
>
> Aha, thanks for checking it out! I would be one happy customer.
>
> (FWIW, I used Teemill for one design* - expensive print-on-demand £19
> but with good ethical credentials.)
>
> Cheers
> Dan
>
> * https://digitalcommoner.teemill.com/
>
>
>
>
> Op ma 22 jun. 2020 om 11:16 schreef Gregory Marler  >:
>
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > This year State of the Map (SotM) conference is virtual, so you don't
> need to travel to attend! Instead of getting a shirt at the registration
> desk, volunteers are being asked to setup regional online shops[1].
> >
> > I did contact the SotM 2013 Birmingham supplier[2]. However to do them
> well we'd need a minimum of 25, and it would cost about £8 + £6 postage per
> shirt. Deadline to place orders would be the end of this weekend if you
> want them in time to watch the conference. We concluded the postage cost
> and the rush makes this not the best deal for OSMers.
> >
> > I'll see if someone sets up a section in one of the big custom-print
> sites for Europe (that covers the UK), or I might look at helping with that
> myself.
> >
> > Watch this space!
> >
> >
> > Gregory (LivingWithDragons)
> >
> > [1] T-shirt shop organisation
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Tshirt_shop_organization
> > [2] https://www.movingforwardsports.co.uk/
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[Talk-GB] SotM shirts to the UK

2020-06-22 Thread Gregory Marler

Hello everyone,

This year State of the Map (SotM) conference is virtual, so you don't need
to travel to attend! Instead of getting a shirt at the registration desk,
volunteers are being asked to setup regional online shops[1].

I did contact the SotM 2013 Birmingham supplier[2]. However to do them well
we'd need a minimum of 25, and it would cost about £8 + £6 postage per
shirt. Deadline to place orders would be the end of this weekend if you
want them in time to watch the conference. We concluded the postage cost
and the rush makes this not the best deal for OSMers.

I'll see if someone sets up a section in one of the big custom-print sites
for Europe (that covers the UK), or I might look at helping with that
myself.

Watch this space!


Gregory (LivingWithDragons)

[1] T-shirt shop organisation
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Tshirt_shop_organization

[2] https://www.movingforwardsports.co.uk/
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Re: [Talk-GB] COVID road changes

2020-06-12 Thread Gregory Marler

Has anyone been adding any tagging to designate these as Covid-19 temporary
blocks?

It would make it interesting to see the amount of change, but also allow us
to check which ones haven't been reverted when able.

Gregory.

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020, 01:23 Robert Skedgell,  wrote:

> On 11/06/2020 23:35, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> > Hi,
> > It seems that COVID is likely to result in some rapid changes to road
> > networks, which OSM will need to capture.
> >
> > I saw a tweet today of the area around the Bank of England, and a road
> > is now one way with a cycle lane the other way. Obviously I can't
> > survey that right now, but Google Maps traffic layer is showing it.
> > Really it needs someone to do a survey (unless we can use the City of
> > London documentation).
> >
> > More generally, I guess we will all need to keep an eye on proposals
> > from each council. For example, here is a tweet from last month about
> > 50 modal filters (road closures) in just Croydon and Lambeth:
> > https://twitter.com/MeristemDesign/status/1260339305261785088 showing
> > the scale of the task here.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> I'm following a feed from The Gazette for traffic orders in London which
> need to be mapped. When MacLondon doesn't get there first, I've either
> been adding notes, putting in changes using the proposed: namespace, or
> setting a reminder in my calendar for the start date, as appropriate.
> The data are released under OGL v3.0 and can sometimes be used for
> updates without a survey being essential.
>
> This will show notices for "Cycle tracks, bus lanes & tramways" and
> "Road restrictions":
>
> https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?results-page-size=50=1=1=latest-date=G408040001+G408040004=all-notices
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels 150k up

2020-05-12 Thread Gregory Williams

On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:08 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> Just would like to point out that we passed the 150,000 mark of solar
> panels mapped in the UK. Dan & Jez are best informed about solar
> farms, so the rest of this update is on small domestic rooftop
> installations.
> 
> A number of us continue to spend time mapping rooftop panels, and,
> although progress is not at the heady rate of last Summer, this has
> resulted in improved coverage of a number of local authorities. These
> are the activities of which I'm aware, there are no doubt others I've
> missed:
> I mainly aim to push reasonably well-mapped LAs over various
> thresholds (50%, 60% & 80% are the ones I find most useful), and to
> try & create a contiguous band of well-mapped (>50%) across England &
> Wales. Recently I've worked on Flintshire, Hinckley & Bosworth and
> Vale Royal.
> gurglypipe continues to spread out beyond Lancaster into South Lakes
> to the N & Ribbledale and to the S
> brianboru continues to pick up a significant number of installations
> across Herefordshire & the Welsh Valleys as part of general mapping
> work
> Gregory Williams continues to focus on hotspot unmapped LSOAs
> MapRoulette users make a steady contribution by converting panels
> mapped as nodes to areas
> Gregory has recently updated the FIT data to March which added
> perhaps 20,000 additional installations. To deal with these he had to
> change the LA boundaries used to incorporate unitary authorities
> (affecting Cheshire, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Shropshire, Northumberland
> & perhaps others). One consequence is that some well-mapped districts
> dropped below thresholds, so I've been working over the last few days
> to restore them if possible (Ashford, Hart & Rugby still to be hauled
> back over 50%). Very kindly, he agreed to retain the original
> district boundaries on a distinct web page, because I found working
> with the old districts of large rural counties more useful than the
> new boundaries.

The distinct web page is at:
http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar_2001/

I also hope to soon have LSOA-level detail on the Scottish pages, which
should help with locating PV installations from aerial imagery more
easily -- I'm conscious that it's a bit difficult at the moment, with
the areas being so physically large.

> 
> As well as adding new panels here's still plenty to do with the ones
> already mapped: adding buildings under mapped panels, adjusting
> position, adding number of panels and orientation. 
> 
> Thanks to all who have contributed.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jerry
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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon pickup lockers - how to represent (if at all)?

2020-01-01 Thread Gregory Marler

Remember that features in OpenStreetMap are not only useful for finding
those features.

If you know a region has the pickup lockers all mapped, you could do
analysis such as density of their locations (do they favour more expensive
neighbourhoods, or how accessible are they by traffic-free cycle routes,
and so forth). You could even start looking at history of where they've
been removed or how they've increased in number. This is not so possible by
the list you select from when making a purchase.

Gregory.

On Wed, 1 Jan 2020, 12:43 Philip Barnes,  wrote:

> They are certainly not post boxes, I have used amenity=vending_machine,
> vending=parcel_pickup which is a combination that probably came from
> asking on #osm.
>
>
> For example my local one https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5978482863
>
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Pna indicates the taging has a fair amount
> of useage.
>
> HTH
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2020-01-01 at 12:18 +, Dan Glover wrote:
> > Please forgive me if this is has been debated previously - I'm new
> > here
> > and having trouble finding a searchable archive for this list.
> >
> > A local mapper has added an Amazon "Hub Locker", tagged as
> > amenity=post_box.  This causes it to flag as an anomaly when
> > comparing
> > against Royal Mail data.  My view is this is not a "post box" since
> > it
> > forms part of delivery rather than collection arrangements.
> >
> > However I can see there may be some benefit in mapping such
> > facilities,
> > albeit anyone wanting to use it will need to make advance
> > arrangements
> > with Amazon and chose from a list of locations.  This is a different
> > situation to Royal Mail where there is no official "post box finder"
> > and
> > one is at liberty to use any convenient box at any time.  Searching
> > the
> > OSM Wiki doesn't seem to provide any specific guidance but hints
> > that
> > Amazon might be persuaded to contribute the locations directly,
> > since
> > they are apparently both consumers and contributors to OSM.
> >
> > Arguably parcel drop-off points for Hermes and so forth might be
> > suitable for inclusion, though they're not a stand-alone feature but
> > part of facilities at a premises and again require advance action by
> > the
> > user to select .
> >
> > Is there existing policy/guidance/consensus and if not, what is the
> > best
> > way to proceed?
> >
> >
> > Dan
> >
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tintagel bridge

2019-08-08 Thread Gregory Marler

I think the most active Cornwall mappers are further South (around Falmouth
and The Lizard). Some of them are focused are lot on foreign humanitarian
mapping but also do some mapping locally. There are also some mappers who
travel to Cornwall regularly but don't live there.

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 12:14, ael  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 08, 2019 at 07:23:00AM +0100, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > Has anyone prepared Tintagel bridge? Opening on Sunday.
>
> As far as I can see, we don't have any local mappers. Perhaps I may
> have missed some.
>
> I am in Cornwall just now, and *might* be able to do a proper survey
> but it is fair distance and it probably won't happen. Anyone in that
> area?
>
> ael
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping at Moira, NW Leicestershire.

2019-08-07 Thread Gregory Marler

Not being completely shameless, it seems appropriate to plug the "Mapper
Diaries" I've been doing...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOzESllbuA8MvERQYiO0KuA/videos
Many of the videos are me talking as if someone has tagged along to my
mapping. I'm slowly getting used to doing that in public, but you also get
to see me editing when back home. Possibly helpful for people that don't
find a local mapping community.

Both the West Midlands group and Nottingham pub meets move around. They may
be open to doing a meetup closer if you get in touch with them.

All the best,
Gregory.


On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 12:12, Gareth L  wrote:

> Hi Graham,
>
> There’s a couple local Osm mapping groups which also do meet ups. They are
> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/ (slightly West Midlands focussed but you’re
> not far!) and also a meet-up in derby/Nottingham that is more East Midlands
> focussed. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nottingham/Pub_Meetup
>
> Anything you’re unsure of how to do you can  leave map notes on the map
> with details and/or contribute data through street level imagery services
> like mapillary.
>
> Also,  I use https://tyrasd.github.io/latest-changes/#13/52.7481/-1.5156 to
> see who has been contributing near me, and what. It can give me ideas on
> what to do next.
>
> Welcome
> Gareth
>
> On 27 Jul 2019, at 08:16, Graham Bowers  wrote:
>
> Is anybody local mapping here that I could tag along with to learn the
> ropes please?
> My activity thus far has been editing the cycling infrastructure to allow
> routing websites to route correctly.
> There is construction activity in the area that does need mapping and does
> have cycling infrastructure impact but it's more than I's wish to tackle
> without knowing quite a bit more than I do now.
> Thanks
> Graham
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels quarterly project progress

2019-07-31 Thread Gregory Williams

Last night I updated my solar mapping comparison tool to include coverage of 
Scotland. Unfortunately it had only covered England and Wales up until now 
because my comparison with the FiT register data was performed at the LSOA 
level. For Scotland, the comparison is being performed just at the local 
authority level. The tool is here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar/index.html<https://link.getmailspring.com/link/738c3486-39b3-4d57-83cd-50e6ae3ee...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fosm.gregorywilliams.me.uk%2Fsolar%2Findex.html=dGFsay1nYkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D>
Some other recent additions that I've made to the tool are:

  *
A "Last updated" column -- showing the date of the last addition / change to a 
solar panel object here;
  *
A "FiT" layer, showing the relative number of PV installations that the FiT 
register has for this area, regardless of whether we've mapped them yet in OSM. 
I.e. a way to seek out where installations are situated, such that a survey can 
be planned;
  *
An "OSM objects" layer, that shows the location of each OSM-mapped PV 
installation, to help keep track of progress in systematically surveying for PV 
installations.

I'm hoping to find time to add further functionality over the coming weeks.

Gregory

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On Jul 30 2019, at 9:05 pm, Dan S  wrote:
Hi all,

The current quarterly project is: solar panels. The good news: we've hit 25,000!
(From a baseline of fewer than 5,000 at the start of the year.)
https://twitter.com/mclduk/status/1156274870625472513

Great work folks. It'd be great to find a way to get other people to
help spot solar panels in their own neck of the woods. But we're on
our way!

Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

2019-07-29 Thread Gregory Marler

I've exchanged a number of messages with the Amazon mappers and their team
lead Jothirnadh. First of all, if anything isn't quite right then I would
encourage the person who spots it to...
a) contact the editor about it (or better if you post a comment on the
changeset)
b) add tags yourself to further clarify the way (OSM is a wiki).
c) a combination of the above.

Amazon are using OpenStreetMap (great) and they are putting in some work to
improve it (great).
They've been a bit behind on widely communicating with the community, but
they are slowly getting better. They're also working in a number of
countries, where similar concerns are coming up, and they're replying in
similar ways. They are keen to learn and do better.

Communication certainly helps people get better. Most (all?) of us have had
something we've learnt from other mappers. Often we don't know a tag is
used, or we don't know the map data is used in a certain way.

Amazon obviously have their specific interests in mapping, but so do all of
us. You're unlikely to see me adding tags for voltage of an electricity
line, but you may see me add the pylon.


Happy mapping everyone,
Gregory.



On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 at 13:10, Dave F via Talk-GB 
wrote:

> I'm aware how construction sites work.
>
> Trades will occasionally have small items delivered, especially if
> specialized or in an emergency.  A foreman I know had his kid's
> Christmas present sent to site to keep the surprise.
>
> Please provide an OSM link to the site.
>
> DaveF
>
> On 29/07/2019 12:25, ael via Talk-GB wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 11:39:11AM +0100, Dave F wrote:
> >> Construction areas aren't inaccessible. They have constant traffic of
> >> deliveries.
> > This construction area is inaccesible for anything but large specialist
> > vehicles with all-terrain tyres. The construction workers are all
> > instructed to ask visitors to leave. There are locked gates, only
> > unlocked for construction vehicles to get through. It is a Health and
> > Safety issue, I suspect, and probably required by their insurance
> > company.  No doubt there are deliveries to the peripheral areas, but
> > that is nearly always by specialist building supplies companies with
> > suitable vehicles. I spoke informally in context, so it seems a bit
> > picky to question this. The particular roads that they marked
> > (residential, as I recall) were at that time bare ground tracks, fenced
> > off and were being used for access to other parts by the construction
> > vehicles.  Those details could not be seen on the satelite imagery which
> > happened to have very recent updates in this area.  Later they will
> > presumably be surfaced and become proper roads: the developers gave me a
> > copy of their plans.  As I recall, they are now tagged corrected as
> > construction roads.  As far as I am concerned, I don't think an access
> > tag on construction roads makes sense in any normal situation.
> > Construction implies that the access will vary over time.
> >
> >> Please provide a link.
> > The link is my personal knowledge and my regular visits on bicycle with
> > gps. I occasionally do enter such areas to get a gps trace in advance of
> > the completion of the roads, but only with great care and caution, and
> > always leave if and when asked to do so. Sometimes site-managers give me
> > permission to collect a trace when I explain what I am doing.
> >
> > Are you telling me that Amazon have driven a large non-construction
> > vehicle on these unfinished roads with locked gates and construction
> > workers around in working hours?
> >
> > ael
> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK coastline data

2019-07-12 Thread Gregory Marler

I have been seeing a lot of flooded tiles over the last week. Of course
doing a Cntrl+F5 on my browser refreshes the old tiles, so it's not
terrible.
Hopefully the current work now is avoiding that happening, as the country
"flooded" can look bad to new viewers. It was also annoying when I was out
of signal and OsmAnd seemed to have some tiles flooded.

For river coastlines, I believe The Thames is tidal as up as Teddington
lock. That would be even more excessive/impractical than Totnes, and have
all of central London be "by the sea".

For oddities with tidal marks, I don't know if the "Loe Bar" provides
anything interesting. It's a sand bar, on one side is the coast and on the
other is "The Loe" freshwater lake.

Thanks for your detailed help.
Gregory.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 07:46, Devonshire  wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Borbus wrote:
>
>
> The Dart cuts the coastline off right at the mouth, which doesn't seem
> right...
>
>
> I think the main reason I did that back in the day is that mapping
> coastline all the way up to Totnes seems extremely non-intuitive. Someone
> standing on Totnes quay (10 miles inland) is not standing on the coast in
> any meaningful way.
>
> I don't really care either way but what would be the benefit of changing
> it to coastline (and slavishly copying the OS is not a benefit) ?
>
> Kevin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

2019-06-24 Thread Gregory Williams

I was thinking the same thing on the "hot-spots" functionality the other day.
I've just added that now. There's now a layer chooser, allowing choice between
"Comparison" (as before) and "FiT", which colours between the least and most
installations according to the FiT register in that local authority.

I'll try to address the other points as I get time -- all good points.

Updated version should appear online over the next few minutes.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 7:52 pm, SK53 wrote:
A few other things:

*
In practice we have relatively little mapped, so identifying 'hot-spot' LSOAs
quickly would be very useful. I just had a browse around and found a few with
around 50 FIT installations around the village of Selston (Ashfield District).
I haven't got them all, but am pleased to have added 125 quickly. I still only
managed to find 32 in one LSOA when the fit installation count is 51: I suspect
this is related to imagery date, rather than me missing obvious ones. The 50
installation threshold is a pretty high percentage of properties and represents
good bang for buck.
*
For the same reason sortable listings would be nice (also true on Robert's
various pages).
*
Cornwall has a large number (17k+), finding hotspots in a big county is very
useful.
*
From a QA viewpoint a count of location=roof or generator:location=roof might
be useful as well. All the FIT installs are likely to be of this type.

Jerry

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 19:41, Gregory Williams
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
Thanks Jerry. I've spotted the bug and am regenerating the output now.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 3:28 pm, SK53
mailto:sk53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Gregory,

I suspect this does not currently take account of roof-top solar power mapped
as nodes. My last tally for Nottingham is a total of 4,385 solar PV generators
(3,760 mapped as nodes, 625 as ways), compared with your total of 621. I added
solar panels on 3 houses on Saturday (one with 2 .generators because they face
in different directions). It would be massively helpful if nodes could be added.

In general it is much, much easier to map roof top solar as nodes, perhaps with
an estimate of the number of modules in the panel(currently we use
generator:solar:modules for this). Once one has one's eye in for a particular
area and sets of imagery it's best to capture the data as quickly as possible.
Mapping panels as areas is more complex, for relatively small gain. I did this
for a single area initially, and now tend to do it in two cases: a) larger
panels on schools, commercial buildings etc; and b) newly observed panels
noticed as part of general surveying or just casually. The choice of which to
do will depend on panel density in a neighbourhood, and whether buildings are
already mapped.

Regards,

Jerry

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 21:20, Gregory Williams
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar<https://link.getmailspring.com/link/9144b288-8b95-41e3-89bb-577401924...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fosm.gregorywilliams.me.uk%2Fsolar=dGFsay1nYkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D>
My version compares at LLSOA level and then aggregates them up to their local
authorities and the whole country. It's been pretty much inspired by Robert
Whittaker and Greg RS's ever-useful comparison tools. It's functional, but
still needs some polish. Known issues include:

*
Currently updated manually. I currently hope to update every few days, and
eventually daily;
*
The tool differentiates between solar plants and generators, and avoids
counting individual generators in a plant. Currently, though, it counts plants
towards completeness, even though it's likely that these are solar farms in
excess of the size used in the FiT register;
*
Only the number of installations is used for comparison at present, not the
electricity output;
*
There are only maps on the local authority pages at the moment, not on the
country summary page.

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

2019-06-24 Thread Gregory Williams

Thanks Jerry. I've spotted the bug and am regenerating the output now.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 24 2019, at 3:28 pm, SK53 wrote:
Hi Gregory,

Regards,

Jerry

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 21:20, Gregory Williams
mailto:greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk>> wrote:
All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

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On Jun 10 2019, at 8:37 pm, Dan S
mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

Following up on this thread about tools to support solar mapping -
just to say that thanks to Sylwia Mielnicka there's a map of
completeness-per-postcode-district:
https://bl.ocks.org/SylwiaOliwia2/cf0d679e81a7c8bfee189ec364bb
I think this is going to get set up to run daily updates or similar.
Discussion forum:
<http://openclimatefix.discourse.group/t/plot-solar-panels-not-added-to-osm-yet/56/3>

There's also a chance that we can get this at higher granularity (for
England and Wales) at least, by using LSOAs rather than postcode
districts. Another person has said they'll have a go at merging the
two granularities.

Best
Dan

Op do 23 mei 2019 om 08:57 schreef Dan S
mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com>>:

Related to the idea of solar panel mapping, I've had a request for
info about what sort of software tools might help support this work.
We might be using some of the familiar tools (e.g. streetcomplete,
openinframap, ... even tasking manager?).

It'd be useful to have something like
completeness-by-postcode-district. Unlike Robert's postbox tools, we
don't have any official ID numbers for the items-to-map, we just have
some official stats (to be taken with a pinch of salt) about how many
are in each postcode district - but still, that could be a start.

I'd also be interested in some tool that predicts where to look, which
might be based on analysing imagery, but perhaps more realistically
based on some mix of heuristics and official data.

Any thoughts?

Best
Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

2019-06-23 Thread Gregory Williams

All,

I've also been working on a comparison tool for OSM solar mapping, as compared
with the FiT register. I've just placed an initial version here:

I aim to add some more functionality to the site over the next few days and
weeks.

Regards,

Gregory

Best
Dan

Op do 23 mei 2019 om 08:57 schreef Dan S :

I'd also be interested in some tool that predicts where to look, which
might be based on analysing imagery, but perhaps more realistically
based on some mix of heuristics and official data.

Any thoughts?

Best
Dan

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMUK

2019-06-12 Thread Gregory Marler

Is anyone planning on doing some mapping as part of this?

So far I've only seen minor edits from Amazon Logistics staff.
They weren't aware of the Mapathon until I sent them a message with some
links, so there's been no deliberate focus. Previously I invited them to
the OSM UK event, which they don't intend to go to but will be at Stat of
the Map in Germany.

>From Durham,
Gregory.

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 09:21, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> With a fairly low-key start, OSMUK are beginning a series of
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons today, 12 June
> 2019.
>
> Similar to the Quarterly Project we aren't forcing this in a particular
> direction by lots of planning upfront. The process will evolve over time.
> In fact, you could discuss that on the 'talk' pages, or here (and then
> write up?).
>
> Regards,
>   Jez
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[Talk-GB] Farmland (crop or animals)?

2019-05-24 Thread Gregory Marler

What is going on with landuse=farmland, and what are we going to do?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dfarmland

It had a classic "map for the renderer" and "no blank spots on the map"
problem. Armchair mappers found it important to map large swathes of
farmland, which I don't think added much. The default style helped by
making it a very subtle colour.
It was always land that is used for tillage(crops) or pasture(animals).
There was some thought to add tagging of crop=yes or animal=* to be more
specific if desired.

I have then started seeing people map a lot of landuse=meadow. I disagreed,
but it seems the wiki page was changed in November. I don't think there was
any discussion, and Harry even clarified the wording in December.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Alanduse%3Dfarmland=revision=1689614=1663478

To me, meadow is a different to the common farm fields that have animals
in. A meadow is likely longer grass, or encouraged to get long. It might be
for flowers/wildlife rather than animals.

Most importantly, this is going to cause confusion and disparity over what
is being mapped and how/why.

>From Durham,
Gregory.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tools to support solar panel mapping?

2019-05-24 Thread Gregory Williams

I note that the FiT register data does have the LLSOA for each entry. So I
think that could be used as a means of measuring completeness in a more
granular manner than local authority or the first half of the postcode. The OSM
data can also be determined per LLSOA. Both the number of installations and the
total generating capacity could be used. It'd never be perfect, but would help
to identify areas to survey on the ground.

Gregory

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On May 23 2019, at 11:57 pm, Dan S wrote:
Thanks Rob - we're using the FiT register already, but please note
that it doesn't disclose any official IDs (for privacy reasons, I
presume) so there's no "primary key", no definitive way to join the
dots e.g. across different versions of the FiT data. The REPD has a
primary key but it only covers larger installations. Most
installations, even if we can find metadata for them, we can't find an
official ID, AFAIK?

Dan

Op do 23 mei 2019 om 23:03 schreef Rob Nickerson :

we don't have any official ID numbers for the items-to-map

I'm almost certain I have pointed it out here already, but in case not: any
solar PV installation which is receiving a subsidy will be registered and will
therefore have an ID. Larger installations are installed in the Renewable
Obligations register. Smaller sites are in the Feed In Tariff register.

The FiT register can be downloaded (in 3 parts) from:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/feed-tariff-installation-report-31-march-2019

The RO register can be obtained from the following site. You need to click
"view public reports", then "Accredited Stations", Next set the page size to 25
and view the report. Once loaded you can then click the export drop down (the
save icon/floppy disk) and export the full register to a CSV.
https://www.renewablesandchp.ofgem.gov.uk/

P.S. this is good for almost all sites built up to now. Going forward then
other sources will need to be found* as the subsidy schemes have come to an end.

* there are none.

Best regards,
Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] London venues

2019-03-18 Thread Gregory Marler

I (somewhat in the capacity as an OSM UK director) have been invited to
visit Geovation, and I don't think there is much of a hatchet left to bury.
I could ask our contacts if an event at Geovation would be suitable and
possible.

For the Queen's birthday I don't think there would be a lot of added issue,
apart from certain parts of London (like Victoria, Green Park, etc). The
8th was partially to avoid following the bank holiday weekend, as that
might more of you and cheap train tickets unavailable.
We also thought London might be good for it's central location in the South
of the UK. Last year we spent a lot of time voting and considering the best
city.

>From up North,
Gregory.



On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 13:10,  wrote:

> It could make reasonably priced trains hard to come by.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> On Thursday, 14 March 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
> > FYI
> >
> > Saturday 8 June is the Queens Birthday - Trooping the Colour occurs.
> > Don't know London well enough to know if this could be disruptive.
> >
> > TonyS
> >
> > On 13/03/2019 23:14, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > For the next OSM UK annual general meeting we thought we would try
> > > London as a possible location. Does anyone know of good (and cheap)
> > > venues that we can use? We have 100 members but would expect the
> > > number to actually attend would be in the region of 20-30 unless
> > > paired with a significant other event.
> > >
> > > Dates: We are thinking Saturday 8 June as a starting point but can
> > > move to other Saturdays if venue availability is better.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > *Rob*
> > >
> > > P.S. Plans for a Bristol event are still in the works. This has taken
> > > longer than we had hoped as it is a joint event. Hopefully some news
> > > on it shortly.
> > >
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> >
>
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[Talk-GB] Checking UK Towns

2019-01-30 Thread Gregory Marler

You might spot my recent map edits with a changeset such as...
"*Checking data and relations for towns in Lincolnshire. This changeset
forms part of paid work to improve OpenStreetMap data. #UKTownCheck
#OrganisedEditing*"

A small amount of my time has been funded by Open Cage Data to check towns
in the UK. Ideally it should be possible to get a town as both a node and a
relation.
I've been going through a list of towns where this isn't the case. I've
been doing a single county per changeset to avoid it being a mess to follow.


In a lot of cases the towns nicely relate to parish wards (admin_level=10).
Sometimes I just need to add the town node as an admin_centre member of the
relation. Other times the "outer" parts of the relation are not in order.
In some cases, the town has a distinct area but not a simple parish ward
(the previous parish might have ceased to be). I have created some
relations with boundary=place, place=town, admin_level=11.
I've even found some town nodes that are complete tagging for the renderer.
They should have been something like place=suburb.


So far it's been very insightful to do this for several areas around the
UK. I don't think I'll manage the whole country within the funded time. I
intended to properly report on what i've done and what I've found.

Gregory.


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Re: [Talk-GB] account disabled due to bounces

2019-01-14 Thread Gregory Marler

If this is a regular question then it would be good to also explain it on
the wiki
Either https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists or the discussion
page of that.

Gregory.

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 10:24, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Could you give us  at least one of the five hundred links?
>
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 10:14, Tom Hughes  wrote:
>
>> Not really, it's gmail obeying the insane instructions (via DMARC etc)
>> of other ISPs like Yahoo.
>>
>> See the five hundred previous times when I have explained it in detail.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On 14/01/2019 10:03, Tony Shield wrote:
>> > Me Too.  On Sunday night. I assume its Gmail.
>> >
>> > Looking on internet its the GMail server 'bouncing'  traffic, this is
>> > almost certainly a GMail setting which causes the bounce which causes
>> > the OSM mail program to disconnect 'bounced' e-mail addresses.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 14/01/2019 09:50, Chris Fleming wrote:
>> >> Yup same here. Although I had assumed that it was because I forward my
>> >> mail to gmail.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 09:16 Dan S > >> <mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It happened to me too today, FWIW.
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >> Op ma 14 jan. 2019 om 09:10 schreef Jez Nicholson
>> >> mailto:jez.nichol...@gmail.com>>:
>> >> >
>> >> > I get the occasional email from Talk-GB telling me that my email
>> >> address has excessive bounces. I'm using gmail. Am I the only one
>> >> with problems? Is there something I need to change?
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >  Jez
>> >> > ___
>> >> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> >> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org>
>> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-GB mailing list
>> >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org>
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-GB mailing list
>> >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
>> http://compton.nu/
>>
>> ___
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>>
> ___
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>


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[Talk-GB] Govt should pressure Google to release data

2018-11-26 Thread Gregory Marler

The ODI have called on the government to pressure Google, Uber, Apple into
releaseing "mapping data"
https://theodi.org/article/we-call-on-the-government-to-work-with-google-apple-and-uber-to-publish-more-map-data-and-support-the-uks-emerging-technologies/

This got a fair amount of media attention last week in the Financial Times
and other places.

My reaction was a bit confused...

Mapping data = location of things? Don't need it, as Sir Tim Bernes-Lee
(ODI co-founder) already sings the praises of OpenStreetMap. Open data at
Ordnance Survey is also getting better (I thought we/ODI we focusing on
improving that, we all know govt could do better).

Mapping data = user data, like current traffic locations or insights into
journeys people take? This would be amazing to get. But the companies won't
give it away if you ask nicely, it's potentially their most valuable asset
besides giving away the actual users. The govt can't control that, unless
it was part of an existing agreement (i.e. bike share schemes, or taxis).


The article/press release disappoints me, it feels like a waste of media
attention. It possibly even dilutes the other messages of the ODI and it's
founders.

What do the rest of you think?


-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Documenting prow_ref formats (Was: MapthePaths & Lancashire)

2018-07-18 Thread Gregory Williams

I think it's Non-Civil Parish.

Sent from Mailspring 
(https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/0?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fgetmailspring.com%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D),
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On Jul 19 2018, at 2:14 am, Andrew Black  wrote:
>
> Surrey seems ot have a format of " Banstead NCP 123A". But existing entries 
> in OSM are "FP 37".
>
> What does NCP mean. I will enter then as f " Banstead FP 37" unless told 
> otherwise!
>
>
>
>
> On 14 July 2018 at 17:27, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>  (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/1?redirect=mailto%3Arobert.whittaker%2Bosm%40gmail.com=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)>
>  wrote:
> > On 13 July 2018 at 19:26, Andrew Black  > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/2?redirect=mailto%3Aandrewdblack%40googlemail.com=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)>
> >  wrote:
> > > I am pondering a similar but simpler question. I would like to add a table
> > > listing each authority at 
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:prow_ref 
> > > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/3?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FKey%3Aprow_ref=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > > describing the conventions used.
> >
> > I've been working on something like this already as part of my PRoW
> > Progress/Comparison tool at
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/4?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fprogress%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> >  . The tool needs to know
> > the format that's used in each area in order to correctly parse the
> > prow_ref values use in OSM, and to generate Right of Way numbers to
> > display. The formats are stored in my database as a regular expression
> > for parsing and a sprinf format string for generating the output. I've
> > been displaying the formats on the county and parish pages for some
> > time, but I've now added a page showing the formats for each county
> > where one is defined:
> >
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/ref-formats/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/5?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fref-formats%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > These are the formats currently used by my tool. They may not always
> > be the best one, as sometimes there didn't seem to be a consistent
> > format in use (either by the Council or in OSM), and so sometimes I've
> > just opted for my default "[Parish Name] [Type] [Number]" style. I can
> > add other counties on request. I'm also more than happy to amend any
> > of the formats already there if there's a consensus amongst local
> > mappers to use something different.
> >
> > One thing to be aware of though, is that the GIS data provided by the
> > councils is usually not the official Definitive Map, but just a
> > working representation of it. Often the council will assign reference
> > numbers to parishes, and segment numbers to the ways that are just for
> > internal convenience, and don't form part of the official PRoW number
> > as defined in the Definitive Map and Statement. My philosophy in the
> > above is to try to stick to the official numbering as used in the
> > Definitive Map and Statement.
> >
> > I plan to add a download of the data at
> > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/ref-formats/ 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/6?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Frobert.mathmos.net%2Fosm%2Fprow%2Fref-formats%2F=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> >  (probably in JSON
> > format) at some point so anyone else who wants to can make us of this
> > data more easily. I also have CSV files containing parish IDs and
> > names for the counties where it's necessary to do this translation,
> > which I can make available. For those using rowmaps data, sometimes
> > you'll find the parish name in the INFO field, but the presence and
> > format of this varies from county to county.
> >
> > Robert.
> > --
> > Robert Whittaker
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
> > (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/1531978742.local-ca768658-9c97-v1.2.2-96fb3...@getmailspring.com/7?redirect=mailto%3ATalk-GB%40openstreetmap.org=VGFsay1HQkBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZw%3D%3D)
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb 
> >

Re: [Talk-GB] Edits in Wales

2018-03-26 Thread Gregory

The OpenStreetMap rule for all time has been "what's on the ground is what
we use", in the case of names that would be what's on the road signs.

I was in Wales last week and saw a mix of road names (I didn't focus on
place names, but it should still stand):
1) Welsh on top line, English below.
2) English on top line, Welsh below.
3) Welsh only.
It seemed consistent for areas, maybe relating to how old the streets were
or politics - I think this is interesting enough.

I would tag it the streets always with 2-3 name tags...
A) name:cy and name:en used whenever they are present on a sign. Do not
transliterate. When we have a complete map, this then provides insight into
the areas (where and % of roads) actually have Bilingual names.
B) You should additionally add a "name" value. My preference is for the
name on the top line. I can see the argument for putting both/all names in,
but I think this gets messy as OpenStreetMap doesn't have the concept of a
separator.

The "name" tag is a used as a fallback (what a German-language map would
show, what a Welsh-language map would show if no name:cy, etc). You should
think of it as a fallback name, rather than a default name.
This can then provide us with insight, what streets have Welsh as the
primary name (name:cy = name)?

While in Wales, I did do some filming so I could demonstrate how to map
bilingual names/places. I've not finished the editing yet, but can share a
link when it's published.

>From England,
Gregory.

On 25 March 2018 at 23:13, ajt1...@gmail.com <ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25/03/2018 21:49, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo wrote:
>
> ...
> Sorry to insist but you will undermine, especially, Welsh names, for a
> generic rendering that uses "name" tags. Think about that.
>
>
> Can you give a specific example of that?  Are you saying that "it's
> important to pretend that Welsh names are displayed even where they aren't
> used very often" by sticking them on the end of the more commonly used
> name?  The other way around (using Welsh in "name" because it is the most
> used name) presumably wouldn't "undermine ... Welsh names".  It could be
> that I'm completely misunderstanding what you're saying here but I really
> don't follow the argument at all.
>
>
> Of course, for me, it's a must to fill "name:cy" and "name:en" too.
>
>
> That's great news - it'll allow maps like https://openstreetmap.cymru/
> (and mine!) to render appropriate names in appropriate areas.
>
>
> On 25 March 2018 at 20:30, Curon Davies <cur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>- The fundamental problem is that there is no "name" which is
>>>correct. In the medium term, as long as the name:cy and name:en are 
>>> correct
>>>then the value of "name" should become less significant. Then it can be 
>>> up
>>>to the user to decide if they want to display English, Welsh or both (and
>>>if both which language taking priority).
>>>
>>> The problem currently, is that display choice isn't available.
>>
>
> I don't think that that's actually true - I can think of at least 3
> choices right now:
>
>
>- OSM "Standard map" (and a number of others), which just use the
>"name" tag:
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.88362/-5.26565
>
>
>- Openstreetmap.cymru, which uses "name:cy":
>
>
> https://openstreetmap.cymru?h=51.88397494833407=-5.
> 264972448348999=17
>
>
>- Mine, that show one of "name:cy", "name:en", "name:ga" or "name"
>depending on location:
>
>
> http://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=
> 51.883531=-5.264898
>
> and of course anyone making their own maps (Garmin etc.) can do whatever
> they want.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> PS: Apologies to Curon if his message wasn't meant for the list - I'm
> guessing that it was but that he's actually not subscribed yet and his
> reply went both to that and Miguel.
>
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>
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission

2017-12-04 Thread Gregory

Sorry I'm late to this thread.

OSM UK CIC, we posted this statement:
https://osmuk.org/pinned/uk-set-to-benefit-from-the-release-of-more-geospatial-data/
Although it gives a viewpoint on the budget, the OSM UK community is not
limited to the aims of the CIC.


Is the £80m even to free up OSMM?
I read it as...
a) £80m for the Geospatial Commission (for sandwiches during their
meetings?)
b) it's *first* task is to establish *how to* open up MM, not part of the
task to actually do that.


Some say this could be a victory for OSM UK, or...
It could be a victory for OS, and they pack up and go home, because now OSM
will keep MM up-to-date?


>From Newcastle,
Gregory.

On 24 November 2017 at 14:06, Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> wrote:

> A note on the side (and maybe an angle to divert some of those funds to
> something really useful): what has always struck me very weird about open
> geo data in the UK, compared to practically every other Western European
> country (even those with far, far less open data), is the, in general,
> dismal aerial imagery quality. It is not unusual to have at least nominal
> resolution 25cm/px imagery if not 10cm and better in lots of places for
> larger areas.
>
> In my experience (which is fairly extensive in this regard) freeing up
> imagery is much easier than actual datasets and our use case is rather
> exotic in any case so typically not seen as a competitive danger.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 24.11.2017 um 12:22 schrieb Andy Robinson:
>
> Indeed Bob’s may be the best case scenario and I note perhaps the more
> cynical view taken by the likes of Ed Parkes.
>
>
>
> I let out a little wee in my pants when I heard the budget announcement.
> Geospatial doesn’t get mentioned much on the floor of the house! So it’s an
> encouraging further nipping at the heels of the giant.
>
>
>
> Each time I hear a welcome apparently positive announcement like this it
> makes me pause and wonder whether the tail is wagging the dog. The
> chancellor might be making funds available but the campaigning to get it is
> not done by the politicians but by those who feel it’s a worthwhile cause,
> they needed to sell it. So what influences drives like this? It’s easy to
> dismiss the role of OSM, in fact OSM may have never figured in the
> discussion about this new money, however I like to think we have influenced
> the marketplace for geospatial data in the UK and will continue to think we
> are (in our little world) the tail.
>
>
>
> So that brings me on to the what next for OSM. Could it indeed have the
> potential to be the end of contribution to OSM in the UK?  Fortunately I
> think not. We are unique in the marketplace that we can react to new cheap
> technology much quicker than the giants like the OS. Around the corner is
> the prospect of the L1/L5 GNSS dual frequency exploitation to bring us sub
> metre positional accuracy with a standard smart phone. While the claimed
> 300mm accuracy is still a long way short of the OS’s 30mm surveying target
> for MasterMap products its getting us closer to being able to verify the
> near precise position of objects, better local rectification of the imagery
> we trace from and I’m sure lots of other things I’m just not thinking of
> right now. If we combine this with where technology is leading us –
> driverless devices, autonomous drones, improved remote sensing from
> satellites etc – we can expect the tools we use today to add to and
> maintain OSM in the UK to be every improving.
>
>
>
> I believe there is another important point too. MasterMap may be a great
> product today but I’m not convinced its fit for even the next 10 years.
> Some of the industries that uses MasterMap in the UK, engineering and the
> building industry to name just two, are rapidly moving to a 3 & 4
> dimensional BIM approach. The 2D MasterMap looks more like an NPE sheet in
> the BIM field.
>
>
>
> But, I hear you say, OSM is mostly a 2D product! Right! While we may be
> winning the battle on getting the OS to open up its data we may be losing
> the war if OSM doesn’t react to the future direction of geospatial data. In
> an increasingly 3D and 4D geospatial world OSM is starting to look like a
> rather clunky model. If a new Steve Coast starts a 4D mapping project and
> it gains initial traction would we jump ship?
>
>
>
> I’ll leave that one with you for the weekend J
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com <sk53@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* 23 November 2017 19:14
> *To:* Gervase Markham
> *Cc:* Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission
>
>
>
> The twitterverse has been talking of nothing else.
>
> Personally, I will be very

Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetCam or Mapillary?

2017-09-22 Thread Gregory

The relevant background/motives as I understand them...

Both currently aren't too limited on funds & I licensing might allow all
photos/data to be taken for OSM if they did close down.

Mapillary is a startup for the street-level photo viewing technology.
Seemingly other things now like 3D models from point clouds made from photo
pixels. Free for us is good for them because it creates mass data to
demonstrate the tech, or helps find UI needs/desires. It could all turn off
if it's

OpenStreetCam is from Telenav. Free for us is good for them because we then
improve OpenStreetMap which they use. They might be less interested in
keeping historic versions of photos, and less interested in UI (except UI
concerning uploading photos or viewing to edit OSM).


I think I've  given up contributing atm, because I don't know which one I
care about more & I haven't set up an easy process to do both in one go. I
also had issues with Mapillary viewer only supporting the most recent
browsers.

Gregory (LivingWithDragons)

On 22 Sep 2017 8:28 am, "Marc Gemis" <marc.ge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (Second try, the first one went only to Neil)
>
> Slightly off-topic, but answering Neil's questions:
>
> I use a DSLR to take pictures, then georeference them, and then upload
> them via a Jython script to OpenStreetCam. I use the Mapilary website
> to upload them there as well. They have scripts to upload pictures as
> well.
>
> Recently I started using OruxMap and use their photo way points in the
> way you describe for OSM tracker.
>
> back on topic:
> Mapillary is more advanced in the type of objects they can extract
> from a photo. OSC can only do traffic signs. OSC's unblurring
> functionality still does not work. So some signs might be unreadable
> due to that
>
> For walking I still prefer a method that takes less pictures, but
> better framed pictures. I do not have the time to wade through
> hundreds of "useless" pictures of paths.
>
> I'll agree with Simon that the Mapillary-Here deal is something to think
> about.
>
> regards
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM, Neil Matthews <ndmatth...@plus.net>
> wrote:
> > I've tried Mapillary -- not tried OpenStreetCam yet.
> >
> > Comments mostly relate to the Mapillary Android app:
> >
> > Mapillary App drove me nuts until I worked out how to take photos
> > individually when walking, rather than as a continuous sequence - more
> car
> > oriented?
> > Seems to be moderately "fussy" about getting a GPS lock.
> > Takes a long while to upload images over WiFi.
> > Images are removed after loading on WiFi - so can't keep a backup, e.g.
> to
> > upload to a second site.
> > Battery life may be impacted severely.
> > Mapillary has a JOSM plugin.
> >
> > Personally, I think something like running OSM tracker (or a real GPS)
> > and/or using naive Android photo GPS tagging might be good.
> > Find a good scripting mechanism to upload - without using the App?
> Upload to
> > either Mapillary / OpenStreetCam / both?
> > Maybe a battery pack?
> >
> > There's also a thought that you might even want to pick the least
> well-used
> > site -- so that it's easier to find "your own" pictures -- you may find a
> > lot of less relevant shots on popular roads from others (motorists).
> > It may be worth seeing how easy it is to filter them by user or
> time/date on
> > each site.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > On 21/09/2017 19:09, Brian Prangle wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > I'm in discussions with Transport for West Midlands to use their
> inspection
> > teams'  time on the street to assist us by taking photos with
> smartphones,
> > which will also help them with their asset management and not have to
> rely
> > on outdated data from Google StreetView.
> >
> > Which one of the above is better for us? Or just plain better?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

2017-09-14 Thread Gregory

Hi Zoe,
Thank you for having an interest in OpenStreetMap and letting us know on
this mailing list!

I hope you're aware of the big selection-bias by asking the demographics of
users that read the talk-gb mailing list. Others have tried to look at OSM
diversity in the past, and I'd (personally) be more interested in how
diversity results vary depending on how you get the information (e.g. who
you ask) or if they've been changing over time.

I'm also interested in what initial preparation you have done for
researching OpenStreetMap. I have 4 starting points I would recommend
(others my disagree or have others):
* Take a look at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Research and add your
name/focus to the list (go back again if/when you have a publication to
link to). I'm surprised Nottingham has nothing listed.
* Attend an OSM meetup or Missing Maps event (maybe both) to meet some of
the community in person. We don't bite, and many of us like to meet over
beer and/or cake.
* Edit the map, help out and make an improvement. Even if it's only adding
one missing shop or 5 house numbers. How can you study something with
millions of users if you don't look at how easy it is to join.
* Read Steve Coasts' The Book of OSM, and look for other sources or ask if
you think you need to know anything that gets mentioned but isn't explained.

I look forward to hearing how you get on and reading about some of your
outcomes.

All the best from Durham,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons).

On 4 September 2017 at 11:38, Zoe Gardner <zoegardn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dear OSM talk-gb subscriber
>
>
>
> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
> University of Nottingham, interested in participation biases in geospatial
> crowdsourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered Geographical
> Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is concerned with
> the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially affect the
> usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is available
> to location based service providers which use OSM as their primary
> geospatial database.
>
> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
> map. However, the actual consequences of this bias remain little explored
> or reported. By collecting information about contributors to OSM, which can
> then be analyzed along with their editing patterns, the impacts of this
> bias might begin to be measured and therefore better understood. I have
> therefore published an online survey designed to collect information
> directly from OSM editors and I would like to invite as many of you as
> possible to participate. The survey is anonymous and takes a couple of
> minutes to complete.
>
> If you are an OSM contributor and are interested in or would like to
> participate in the study, please click on the link below, which will take
> you to the Bristol Online Survey website where you will find more
> information and an opportunity to participate in the survey. As a small
> incentive, at the close of the survey in a few weeks’ time, 60 respondents
> will be drawn at random to receive a £15 Amazon voucher.
>
>
>
> To participate in the survey, click on the link below:
>
>
>
> https://nottingham.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/osm-user-profiles
>
>
>
> Please do think about participating. It is hoped that knowledge about the
> way participation biases impact on crowdsourced maps will enable new
> strategies to be developed to address any resulting voids in the geospatial
> information provided by amateur mappers. In turn this could strengthen the
> role played by platforms such as OSM in urban planning and sustainability
> and raise the profile of the important mapping work that you all do.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, if you would like to know more about me, my research
> activities or the project, please visit my University webpage (link below)
> and do not hesitate to get in touch directly or via the OSM messaging
> service.
>
>
>
> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/people/zoe.gardner
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
> message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
>
> Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
> message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the
> author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
> University of Nottingham.
>
> This message ha

Re: [Talk-GB] Teaching OSM

2017-09-12 Thread Gregory

My belief is that OSM-UK should have readily available teaching materials
that are easy to do adapt to various conferences and meetups so that we can
spread the word.

That could be good, although each person has a different style of
presenting so probably builds up their own deck of slide decks.

I should at least share more of my slide decks online. It's helpful to have
certain images/screenshots. E.g. some before & after maps of UK places, and
photos of maps being used in humanitarian settings.

>From Newcastle,
Gregory.

On 11 Sep 2017 2:04 pm, "Jez Nicholson" <jez.nichol...@gmail.com> wrote:

I particularly enjoyed the bit at 1:10...about Open Plaques :D

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 at 13:37 Jez Nicholson <jez.nichol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Andy.
>
> I have 1.5hrs in total. I was splitting it 30mins talk + 1hr practical but
> can easily change the proportions.
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 at 13:26 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10 September 2017 at 11:13, Jez Nicholson <jez.nichol...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I have volunteered to teach a session on OSM at the Data Visualisation
>> > Brighton Meetup next month.
>> >
>> > My plan is to combine a short talk on visualising OSM data with a
>> practical
>> > session.
>> >
>> > Is http://learnosm.org/en/ the best resource for a 1-hour beginners'
>> > introduction?
>>
>> Is one hour all you have? I think you'll be pushed to do a talk and a
>> meaningful practical session in that time.
>>
>> This talk:
>>
>>https://youtu.be/D5GKyKujsnM?t=2608
>>
>> which I gave in 2014 (feel free to borrow from it) lasted one hour.
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM feature density vs edits per features

2017-09-01 Thread Gregory

Disclaimer: I suppose I'm a former member of the London OSM community, and
now only visit occasionally.

I'd add that it's worth noting OSM in London has history similar to the
city it's self. It's not a typical city/town, but many small villages that
expanded & grew with centres that then merged into each other. This is why
London has lots of different highstreets/market squares/"downtowns".

OpenStreetMappers in London worked on their local areas from a blank
canvas, and started expanding the distance from home/work that they mapped.
The mapping distance/radius continues to expand for as long as OSM interest
is maintained, or until they think it's reached/met other map areas. If
interest is maintained, it might be that they return/reset to 0-distance
and start adding different features/detail. The result can be fuzzy halos
of data/detail between different mapper's patches. It's hard to casually
spot those boundaries of detailed data, particularly because the existing
mappers are not regularly visiting the areas (due to the reasons that
created the anomalies).

A previous replier referred to "City of London" when I think they meant
"Central London". Be careful, because "City of London" is a very specific
place and isn't the center or downtown for most people/uses.

As for "Visiting OSMers" and their impact on data maintenance, there are
other cities I would pick to look into that. It would be good to look at,
and also to see if it can be measured how well a city/community has dealt
with it.

>From the center of Newcastle,
Gregory.

On 1 Sep 2017 12:29 pm, "Dan S" <danstowell+...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

One specific possibility: I know that at least a handful of people have
been deliberately filling out London's buildings, and in un-surveyed areas
this is often by tracing building shapes from aerial views. This is
motivated by London's "patchy" coverage: areas where mappers live, plus
tourist/popular streets, are well-mapped, while other (residential etc)
areas sometimes looked blank. Maybe worth checking if the difference you
see is due to a specific object type (in particular, building=*).

Best
Dan

2017-09-01 12:01 GMT+03:00 De Sabbata, Stefano (Dr.) <
s.desabb...@leicester.ac.uk>:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> my name is Stefano, and I am a lecturer in geography at the University of
> Leicester. Volunteered geographic information and OSM have been one of my
> research interests for a few years now. I have also done some very minor
> contributions to OSM myself, but never in London and I am not very familiar
> with the London OSM community.
>
>
>
> As I have been recently looking at some aspects data production and
> quality of OSM in London, and I was wondering whether any of you might have
> some time to help me out in interpreting some of the data… I have a couple
> of maps that can use some local expertise to make sense of them. :)
>
>
>
> In particular, I am looking at the relationship between feature density
> and number of edits per features (among other things). It looks like there
> are areas of London with consistently high density but low average number
> of edits per features. I was wondering whether this might be the result of
> local projects or mapathons organised by the community? Or might there be
> (and most probably there are) other reasons I am overlooking?
>
>
>
> If you are interested, please contact me: at s.desabb...@le.ac.uk
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Stefano.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dr Stefano De Sabbata*
>
> *Lecturer in Quantitative Geography*
>
> Department of Geography,
>
> University of Leicester, University Road, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK
>
> *t: *+44 (0)116 252 3812 <+44%20116%20252%203812>
>
> *e:* s.desabb...@le.ac.uk
>
> *w: *le.ac.uk/departments/geography/people/stefano-de-sabbata
> <http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/geography/people/stefano-de-sabbata>
>
> *twitter: *@maps4thought <https://twitter.com/maps4thought>
>
>
>
> *Research Associate*
>
> Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford
>
> *oii.ox.ac.uk/people/desabbata <http://oii.ox.ac.uk/people/desabbata>*
>
> Information Geographies <http://geography.oii.ox.ac.uk/>
>
> Connectivity, Inclusion, and Inequality <http://cii.oii.ox.ac.uk/>
>
>
> [image: id:77B79125-D80D-4E72-9F70-791C2419DE28@home]
>
> Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/uniofleicester> or visit our
> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/UniofLeicester/> page
>
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Osmf-talk] Live OSM discussion in ~45 minutes (7.30pm UK time)

2017-07-27 Thread Gregory

Good to focus on the takeaways Mikel, thanks.

Topics of research has come up too, and we could also be welcoming/helping
academics more. I had already proposed a session for SotM, if anyone wants
to join me.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2017/Breakout_sessions#Academic_Research_.2F_Gregory_Marler.28LivingWithDragons.29

At SotM 2016 hackday, some work was done to see where our attendance
diversity (gender & home location) was. I should be able to share data
again if someone wants to compare. Warning: it might show nothing changed,
other than us talking about diversity.

>From the western world,
Gregory.

On 27 Jul 2017 1:44 pm, "Mikel Maron" <mikel.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Takeaways
> * Everyone understands gender diversity is a problem
> * Some of us think it's very important to address, others think other
> issues are more important at this moment
> * The dudes arguing here among themselves about what's more important and
> dissecting arguments are not doing much to address the issue.
> * The volume of discussion and overly sensitive responses to details,
> beating drums about our pet peeves, only shows that the key issue of gender
> diversity is not something some of us want to put energy into.
> * The discussion here doesn't matter. If we want to work on gender
> diversity, let's go away from here and support the women and men who have
> started good work on strategies at last year's SotM.
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 <(415)%20283-5207> @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
> On Thursday, July 27, 2017 7:54 AM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On 26.07.2017 23:58, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> > While I was dismissive of her arguments four years ago, now I see that
> > all of her points were valid, and are still valid.
>
> I think that it is possible for an insider of OpenStreetMap to look at
> Monica's work and see some valid points in there. But try to switch off
> your background knowledge and look at her work. What sticks with you is
> something like (quoting from a 3rd party web site that introduces the
> talk):
>
> "She looks specifically at the case of how "childcare" was not approved
> as map category within OpenStreetMap."
>
> This comes from her work massively exaggerating the issue for effect,
> and being extremely sloppy with OSM background research.
>
> Reviewing her talk, the OSM part begins with her showing group photos of
> past SotM conferences claiming "these are all men". Which clearly isn't
> true (you just have to zoom in on the picture). Maybe I'm putting the
> bar to high by measuring this with the "science" yardstick, but it feels
> wrong to me. Do you want future scientific papers to quote "according to
> , no women have attended large OSM gatherings before 2013"?
> Because that's what she says.
>
> She then goes on to equate the number of different values in the
> "amenity" key space with the importance of something (arguing that
> because you have different amenity values for bars and pubs it is clear
> that this is an important distinction); this is not tenable as just
> slightly more research would have shown, there is no correlation between
> the importance of something and the number of different key values in
> the amenity space.
>
> She then claims that "amenity=swingerclub" was the (1) most recently (2)
> accepted (3) voted on (4) approved amenity - not a single one of the
> numbered points is correct as far as I can see from the Wiki history
> (but I invite readers to double check, I might have missed some page
> renamings?).
>
> Going forward, she gives listeners the impression that a successful tag
> proposal was a requirement for being able to tag features, which is
> plain wrong. At the very least, a non-misleading, non-sensationalist
> presentation would have to mention that
>
> (a) anyone can tag anything they find important,
> (b) this *may* be influenced by editor presets (which didn't feature
> swingerclubs at the time and don't now)
> (c) what appears on the *map* is a different issue again, and
> swingerclubs weren't on the map then and aren't now.
>
> (As a tiny nod towards the actual subject of this thread, point "b" was
> addressed in Andrew Hall'S "Wikimedia Research Showcase" presentation.)
>
> She then goes on to discuss the amenity=childcare proposal, which had
> been voted down in 2011. As you can see from
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_
> features/childcare=789581
> the proposal itself had been framed sloppily; it claimed to be
> applicable to all age groups ("Example: 0-6") but didn't explain in how
> far i

Re: [Talk-GB] Museums in Berwick-upon-Tweed

2017-05-30 Thread Gregory

Thanks for adding the note Chris.

I'm not far away by train, and was equally tempted to make a trip. I'd be
happy to meet with the person who referred it to OSMF, or others, and do a
small OSM demo/talk/chat/meetup.

>From NZ2463,
Gregory.

On 30 May 2017 5:09 p.m., <m...@chrisfleming.org> wrote:

> On 28/05/17 at 11:54am, David Woolley wrote:
> > On 28/05/17 10:24, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > > "The two Museum symbols at NU 00023 52563 and NT 99988 52538 are no
> > > longer relevant as the museums closed several years ago and the area is
> > > now private housing."
> > >
> > > I'll leave it to you to figure out what these coordinates mean and
> which
> > > museums may need to be checked
> >
> >
> > Longitude: -2.00120135375
> >
> > Latitude: 55.76641149
> >
> > and
> >
> > Longitude: -2.00175915259
> >
> > Latitude: 55.7661868566
> >
> > according to
> > <http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/webservices/convertForm.cfm#convertToLatLng>.
> >
> > However, I would suggest that 10 figure OS national grid references could
> > only have come from a council database based on OS data, so may not be
> > usable.  They are precise to 1 square metre.
> >
> > The objects that best match are:
> > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1792339093> and
> > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1792339349>.
>
> For now I've added a note.
>
> I'm thinking about a long bike ride, so might might check it out myself.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Birmingham Tree Import

2017-05-09 Thread Gregory

The height issue is something I see as problematic, but the proposed
solution is suitable.
A lot of data outputs are doing 3D but would treat the height values as
unknown units. Give something they can accept (eg maximum height), and
provide more detail (ie height:range) for those systems that know to deal
with it (eg something looking at natural objects!).

>From Newcastle,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons).

On 9 May 2017 8:29 a.m., "Paul Norman" <penor...@mac.com> wrote:

> On 4/27/2017 12:26 PM, Brian Prangle wrote:
>
> Apart from some posts  about the problems with email notifications of
> changeset discussions, there has been nothing to indicate where I take this
> import. I guess that's because the initative is really down to me.
>
> I've annotated Harry's Import wiki page
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council_trees_data>
> with some comments and ideas. I've copied below what I think are the
> relevant bits from the wiki page and I look forward to resolving the issues
> as I'm keen to complete the import.
>
>
> Don't forget the need to consult with imports@ as part of the
> consultation with the community.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

2017-05-09 Thread Gregory

For UK project ideas see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Project

There's benefits to being more local than the UK. You can pick a project
that works better, or UK-wide can be inspired by a local challenge that
went well.
Please consider working insync too, it can be encouraging to be part of the
bigger picture that makes OSM work. I.e. we'll fix our patch, while they
improve their patch.
Discuss on talk-gb when there's a project/challenge that you think will
work further afield.

Also, I'm really glad to see you trying a new format. I do miss being able
to join you all in London.

>From way up North,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons).

On 9 May 2017 8:30 a.m., "Stuart Reynolds" <stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk>
wrote:

> Yes.
>
> For info, stations are regarded as “national” and so have their own 910
> prefix. So 9100LHONSEA is Leigh-on-sea (OK, it’s not in London but that’s
> the one I know). The alpha code on the end is a match to the rail industry
> TIPLOC codes, which throws up some oddities (such as London Victoria and
> London Bridge having two TIPLOCs each, and Clapham Junction having four).
>
> Metro stations are also regarded as national, and so have 940 prefixes. In
> the cases I mentioned before, 9400ZZLUBNK is Bank, and 9400ZZLUTWH is Tower
> Hill. In both rail and metro cases, these codes represent the entire
> station.
>
> Then, each rail station or metro station has one or more entrances. These,
> for historical reasons, are always defined locally and have local codes. So
> they have the local prefix (490 for London) instead of the national prefix,
> but use the same identifier for the station. There is then a numbered
> suffix to distinguish between different entrances, although Bank has so
> many that it needs alpha as well.
>
> So:
>
>- 4900ZZLUBNK7 is Bank Station, Entrance 9, on the corner of
>Threadneedle Street (there isn’t necessarily any direct correlation between
>the suffix and the entrance number)
>- 4900ZZLUOXC7 is Oxford Circus, Entrance 7, on Argyll Street
>- etc
>
>
> The final oddity is that there is a hierarchy. So rail stations can
> contain metro stations, but not the other way around. But each different
> entity is expected to have its own entrances. So at Blackfriars, for
> example, the rail station has two entrances, north and south, and the
> nominal “entrance” to the underground is actually set on the gateline
> inside the station building.
>
> So there are some things to be aware of, but positionally the entrances
> are all in the right places (more or less) and you can get a “big bang”
> from the NaPTAN data even if you later on wish to refine the entrances by
> survey.
>
> Regards,
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
> On 9 May 2017, at 07:14, Andrew Hain <andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Does it include stations belonging to Network Rail?
>
> --
> Andrew
> --
> *From:* Stuart Reynolds <stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk>
> *Sent:* 08 May 2017 23:44:56
> *To:* Derick Rethans
> *Cc:* Bjoern Hassler; talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org; osm-gb
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite
>
> Hi All,
>
> For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the
> London NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the data
> that begins with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin 4909ZZLU
> followed by a three letter code for the station plus a digit to distinguish
> between different entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be an entrance
> to Bank, while 4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.
>
> While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all
> maintained by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.
>
> Regards
> Stuart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans <o...@derickrethans.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
> local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
> this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
> Election that is).
>
> cheers,
> Derick
>
> On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:
>
> Dear Grant, dear all,
>
>
> thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
>
> meeting last night, and god to have met you all.
>
>
> Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
>
> some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
>
> be a nice community building activity, and provide some cont

Re: [Talk-GB] Import Progress

2017-03-22 Thread Gregory

I've been roughly following this thread, and feel I should add some balance.

*As a director of OpenStreetMap UK,*
If you have a point/discussion to make on that organisation or the
collective of OSMers in the UK, please make another thread for it. Someone
said it's not a good way to treat a respected/dedicated member of the
community, and that may be right, in the same way some comments haven't
been a good way to treat a new member of the community who hasn't any
knowledge of import attitudes.

*As an individual,*
I've not been to West Midlands pub meetups but had heard on some list about
the NaPTAN update-import. I feel that a well-accepted import needs
slightly-less process followed before an update, but it's still good to do
some. As for the tree import, I've only heard in passing in chats. It would
be important for that to go through the full import guidelines.

Neil, thanks for offering a next steps suggestion to keep this moving on..,
> A (non-)apology that "other mappers' expectations haven't been met", and
some retrospective mailing list notification, etc. is probably the safest
way to go without opening the floodgates to future arbitrary imports.

I'm sure Brian understands the importance of keeping the community aware.
It's difficult because it's such a big community with so many mediums.
People who dislike the mailing lists are often good at informing the other
mediums, but that's no reason for mailing lists to be completely ignored,
especially as they can form a more permanent record of announcements. The
import mailing list tends to have less of the negative comments/arguments
people have come to associate with OSM mailing lists. I usually glance over
it very briefly as most imports don't geographically-concern or
subject-interest me.

Besides notification, shall we now focus on actual concerns/comments on the
imports taking place?

>From the North East,
Gregory.

On 21 March 2017 at 22:01, Neil Matthews <ndmatth...@plus.net> wrote:

> On 21/03/2017 11:20, Andy Allan wrote (more than this):
>
> I feel this is a politely phrased way of saying "we will continue to
>> ignore everyone and carry on what we're doing already".
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andy
>>
>
> My take from previous mails is that all you need to do to import data now
> is go to the pub and discuss it with local regularly active mappers.
> For some values of local/regular/active (possibly even at a county-wide
> level) this just might involve me mumbling to myself in the corner of my
> local -- and bingo I've met the requirements.
>
> I think it's a bad precedent to set.
>
> A (non-)apology that "other mappers' expectations haven't been met", and
> some retrospective mailing list notification, etc. is probably the safest
> way to go without opening the floodgates to future arbitrary imports.
>
> Cheers,
> Neil
>
>
>
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-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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[Talk-GB] State of the Map 2017: Japan

2017-03-08 Thread Gregory

It may be a little further than last year, but I'm super excited about
State of the Map 2017 being hosted by Japan.

We're a little low on talks at the moment, you can propose a session before
April:
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/02/16/propose-your-session-to-state-of-the-map-2017/


Need some financial support in order to attend? Scholarships open until
22nd March 2017:
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/02/22/apply-for-a-scholarship-to-state-of-the-map-2017/


As always, I look forward to seeing some familiar and new faces there.

Gregory (LivingWithDragons)
SotM WG
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Re: [Talk-GB] Ipswich data

2017-02-23 Thread Gregory

It's been about 6 years since Gail asked where public toilets were.
At which time, OpenStreetMap had locations of about 260. Source:
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2011/01/i-need-to-go

By summer 2014, she was starting to get somewhere (or at least, people like
Geomob/ODI were listening), and she launched a new version of her
map/website.
My comments at that time:
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2014/09/flushing-a-website-away


>From Newcastle,
Gregory.




On 23 February 2017 at 12:35, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> It took Gail Ramster <https://twitter.com/gaillyk> getting on for 3 years
> to get public loo data released from many councils, and from what I recall
> several were very resistant. However, for the most part councils were
> willing to participate, not just because there was some kind of incentive,
> but most could see the value of having this as open data.
>
> It must be over 2 years since she talked about this at Geomob & the ODI.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On 23 February 2017 at 12:11, Andy Robinson <ajrli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The dataset you have all be waiting for ;-)
>>
>> https://data.gov.uk/dataset/public-toilets5
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andy
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcode Error Reports

2016-11-16 Thread Gregory Williams


I think that most of the reduction was due to me going through the obvious 
formatting issues last weekend. I used an import from the Geofabrik GB extract 
into an osm2pgsql database looking at the addr:postcode and postal_code tags. 
The database enabled me to easily get the appropriate OSM object IDs such that 
I could download and fix each in turn using JOSM after using some judgement.

I've also fixed a few way-off postcodes when compared to the distances to that 
which OS OpenData CodePoint thought that their centroids were at -- things like 
postcodes in Edinburgh (EH) mistakenly typed in with an Enfield (EN) postcode 
-- also identified using my import into PostGIS. Cases which were less clear 
I've added notes for, to have local mappers review.

Gregory
⁣

Sent from BlueMail



On 16 Nov 2016 20:36, at 20:36, "Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)" 
<robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>My daily report of addr:postcode value errors at
>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/osm-errors.html seems to be
>being used by at least one other person, since the numbers of errors
>showing there has dropped significantly now. The page is regenerated
>daily, but unfortunately the data hasn't been refreshed for a few days
>now because the source data on which it relies (The Geofrabrik GB
>extract via the GB Taginfo instance) hasn't been updated in that time.
>
>I've also starting playing with a second report that lists location
>discrepancies of postcode-tagged OSM objects compared with the
>postcode centroid locations in Code-Point Open. This is less of an
>exact science, since postcodes will not all be located at the centroid
>for that postcode unit, and the allowable deviations vary depending on
>the unit. However, you can find an initial list of postcodes that are
>more than 1km from their official centroid at
>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/location-errors.cgi -- there
>are about 1500 of them, although quite a few are in groups where the
>same postcode is on multiple neighbouring objects. Presumably most of
>the 1500 will be cases of a typo being made by an editor or in the
>data source they used, so they'll need manual checking and updating.
>
>If anyone fancies looking at any of these please feel free to dive in.
>If you find any false positives (i.e. errors in the processing, or
>postcodes that genuinely are that far from their centroid), please let
>me know, and I'll see if there's anything that can be improved in the
>tool, or if they need to be marked manually as ok.
>
>Robert.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Technical Help

2016-11-03 Thread Gregory

Brian,

Are you looking to actually setup hardware somewhere and configure this
yourself(as a group)?
Or would you want someone to provide an OpenStreetMap hosted service that
you can put your own style or other customisations on?

Unless it was for personal learning purposes, I would consider the latter
option and have a chat with Andy Allan.
I would say it's the whole economies of scale with technical support. If
there's a problem with the server, or with some update needed, Andy's going
to be fixing it for his other servers/customers anyway.
https://www.thunderforest.com/pricing/

>From Newcastle,
Greg.

On 2 November 2016 at 08:32, Brian Prangle <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Still looking for assistance in sizing a tile server
>
> On 28 Oct 2016 1:28 p.m., "Brian Prangle" <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> We're about to start an exciting project together with Birmingham City
>> Council, Amey, Transport for West Midlands, Innovation Birmingham, OpenData
>> Institute and Birmingham City University.  More details to follow once it's
>> officially launched.
>>
>> There's a small amount of seed funding and we need to size a server and
>> storage that will serve OSM tiles for the West Midlands (Geofabrik's
>> download is 37MB for an osm.pbf file). We would need a production server
>> with an initial guesstimate hit rate of 5000 per day and a dev server, and
>> a backup for both.
>>
>> I've no idea how to do this but I'm hoping there's someone who can help
>> me.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
>
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[Talk-GB] Bonus winter project: Christmas?

2016-11-01 Thread Gregory

Apparently mapping of Christmas features is more established...
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:xmas:feature

and being used...
http://osmand.net/blog?id=christmas_map

but the UK only has Birmingham market mapped
anyone excited enough to try mapping the Christmas features in their
city/town?

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Re: [Talk-GB] access:psv

2016-10-13 Thread Gregory

I agree with what Chris says.

I continue mapping with the tagging scheme I use until someone messages me
as a discussion. By ignoring current usage (regarded with more reverence
than the wiki) your consumption will potentially miss new data that mapper
adds, they will likely be unaware of your mass manual edit.

As an occasional data consumer, I have also used tags on non-public
projects because I once looked at a local area (or did mapping of it
myself) and saw what was used. Why is it fair that you break my system
without even contacting people who mapped with those tags?

>From the east coast main line,
Gregory.

On Oct 13, 2016 6:53 PM, "Chris Hill" <o...@raggedred.net> wrote:

> Stuart, You explained your idea (thanks for emailing first) and you added
> 'in case anyone has any violent objections'. I voiced my objection. I'm not
> in charge nor am I the OSM Police, you should proceed as you see fit and so
> will I.
>
> I have written about this process more than once in the past, for example
> http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/homogenised-data-no-thanks.html
>
> Cheers, Chris (chillly)
>
> On 13/10/16 18:33, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
>
>> Dave, yes - sorry. Mistyped what I had been sent. It is only 127, two of
>> which are one single instance of access:psv:bus, which surely ought to be
>> just bus=*, and one single instance of access:psv:maxweight
>>
>> Chris - I will quite happily build in different tagging schemes if I feel
>> that the tagging is correct and likely to be repeated elsewhere. But I
>> don’t believe that this is. It is unexpected, and it is undocumented. I
>> haven’t looked to see if it is one user, or 127 different users. But either
>> way it is at most 127 out of the 40,000 contributors that we apparently had
>> last month according to a different thread today. And the whole purpose of
>> me asking was, anyway, to find out if people had a real need to tag in this
>> unusual way before I changed it, rather than to be told that if you found
>> me doing it, you’d /insist/ [my italics] on it being reverted.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Stuart Reynolds
>> for traveline south east & anglia
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Oct 2016, at 18:07, Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com >> davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>> I'm only returning 127 (Worldwide) & 29 (UK, 24 Nottingham)
>>> Compared with 77857 for psv=*
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> If they're to signify different entries, what are those differences.
>>> If they're for the same entity what is the advantage of access:psv. If
>>> there is none, they should be change as clearly more users are expecting
>>> psv=*
>>>
>>> If the changes are to a more popular or useful tag, then there's no
>>> harm. With fewer tags, it makes it easier for a consumer to validate the
>>> data.
>>>
>>> DaveF.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/10/2016 17:38, Chris Hill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please don't change the tags to suit your application. If every data
>>>> consumer changed the tags they don't like it would be mayhem. If you edit
>>>> tags and by doing that you upset a single mapper, that is a disaster -
>>>> mappers are our most precious resource.
>>>>
>>>> Change your processing to include both types of tagging. It is not hard
>>>> to do, you write the code once and use it whenever you need to in the
>>>> future.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Chris (chillly)
>>>>
>>>> On 13 October 2016 17:12:21 BST, Stuart Reynolds <
>>>> stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings all!
>>>>
>>>> In Nottingham in particular there are a number of roads marked
>>>> with access:psv tags. This is unusual, in that I would normally
>>>> expect to see simply psv=* on these roads - and more importantly
>>>> (to me) so would my contractor who is importing the data. I’ve
>>>> checked the wiki for “access” and it seems to agree with the
>>>> contractor that psv=* is the preferred tagging scheme.
>>>>
>>>> There are only 275 instances of access:psv worldwide, and I
>>>> propose to change those (manually) in the areas that I am
>>>> concerned about in the UK. This is just to let you know, in case
>>>> anyone has any violent objections or wonders what I am up to.
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] River Severn riverbank not redering

2016-10-07 Thread Gregory

Is the issue/bug reported to Mapnik?

>From the base of Newcastle "Monument",
Greg.

On Oct 7, 2016 12:02 PM, "Dave F"  wrote:

> On 07/10/2016 11:54, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
>> because it's the only *riverbank* section with a name?
>>
>
> Not true.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

2016-05-27 Thread Gregory

I have a reply from the North East Ambulance Service.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/locations_of_defibulators#incoming-818141

2nd and 3rd PDFs (CPADS and STATICS) contain a table of locations. Statics
not being 24/7 access, but I think it's still good to include (with
suitable tagging).


Ben, you could try Yorkshire Ambulance Service, and refer to that website.
Maybe "request additional information about our services" is the most
appropriate on http://www.yas.nhs.uk/TalktoUs/Contact_Us.html


>From Newcastle,
Gregory.

On 23 May 2016 at 22:50, Ben Pollinger <benpollinger+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> There's a project started for Yorkshire and Humber, which seems to be run
> by Yorkshire Ambulance Service, BHF and others:
> https://www.mapmydefib.com
>
> No actual map there, just a form asking for people to register new defibs.
>
> I'm not sure how to approach them but willing to give something a go.
>
> Ben
>
> On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
>> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
>> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
>> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
>> where one might be useful.
>>
>> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
>> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
>> list (
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm
>> )
>> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
>> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
>> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
>> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
>> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
>> wasting time in an emergency.
>>
>> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
>> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
>> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
>> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
>> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
>> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>>
>> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
>> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
>> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
>> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
>> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
>> like that in a location=* key.
>>
>> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
>> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
>> line they take...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

2016-05-27 Thread Gregory

I spotted a more interesting case in the pharmacy register: "HMP Durham"
(i.e. the prison).

I agree with mapping the pharmacy location in a hospital. Not only good for
finding which building it is, but also human reverse geocoding, e.g. "I'm
somewhere outside the hospital, by the pharmacy... okay, I'll pick you on
the road right outside that entrance".

How about the prison? I guess I can't get/order a prescription there, but
is it worth mapping just to aid cross checking? Should be something that
will avoid it being counted in pharmacy=yes. pharmacy=private... or
pharmacy=customers_only ;)

>From the North East,
Gregory.

On 24 May 2016 at 10:09, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> Given the size of larger district & regional teaching hospitals I think it
> will always be sensible to map the location of the pharmacy. For instance
> I've only recently discovered where decent coffee shops are in one my Mum
> was an in-patient for 2 weeks, and I have no idea where the pharmacy is
> located in the same hospital.
>
> I have friends who are consultants in the main teaching hospital in
> Nottingham: it is not unusual for newish members of the medical staff to
> get lost in the place. The front desk is never quite sure where the Day
> Case unit is & so on.
>
> Hospitals, along with shopping centres, are the two prime use cases for
> doing some more sophistcated indoor mapping.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 24 May 2016 at 08:29, Mark Goodge <m...@good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20/05/2016 16:42, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/05/2016 16:29, SK53 wrote:
>>>
>>>> In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get
>>>> fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed - and in the case of the one I'm familiar with it's not a stock
>>> issue but a bureacracy one - anything written "upstairs" by a doctor
>>> apparently has to be fulfilled by the (outsourced) hospital pharmacy.
>>> I've never tried to redeem a "regular" prescription there, but they do
>>> sell the normal high-street pharmacist add-ons, so they don't just rely
>>> on the closed shop of hospital-written prescriptions.
>>>
>>
>> All pharmacists offering the standard FP10 ("green form") prescription
>> service have to be able to dispense all drugs that can be prescribed via
>> it. That is a licence requirement. That doesn't mean holding a stock of
>> every drug - for the more esoteric ones, obtaining them to order is
>> acceptable - but it is good practice to hold stocks of all those that are
>> likely to be requested regularly. It's unlikely that a hospital FP10
>> pharmacy would have a stock policy that's significantly more limited than a
>> high street pharmacy.
>>
>> However, not all hospital pharmacies are FP10. This, for example, is not:
>>
>>
>> http://www.yorkhospitals.nhs.uk/our_hospitals/_the_york_hospital/facilities/
>>
>> As a rule of thumb, if the pharmacy provision is outsourced to one of the
>> regular High Street names (Stewart Pharmacy and Lloyds seem to be the most
>> common), then it's likely that it will offer an FP10 service. If it's
>> in-house, however, or run by a hospital pharmacy specialist, then it
>> probably won't.
>>
>> If you were going to map them, then you would need to now the difference.
>> But, personally, I don't think it is worth it. All hospitals have a
>> pharmacy of some sort, so mapping them separately is pointless.
>>
>> Mark
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Pebble Core for mapping?

2016-05-25 Thread Gregory

Steven,
I tried "audio mapping" many years ago. I didn't find the workflow
comfortable, but I believe the tools have improved since then. See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Audio_mapping for lots of thoughts and
onward links.

Jez,
GPS tracks were helpful in the early/dragon-filled years of OSM but I don't
think they are as relevant. We have sources like aerial imagery, OS open
data, and our own existing data. E.g. I don't need a GPS trace to map a new
street halfway down an existing street in town or to map that there is a
telephone box at the intersection of two roads. Of course lots of GPS can
be used to find missing roads, or improve accuracy, but you need context.
Is it a new tarmaced road, or do all cyclists cross a muddy field? See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strava for data availble.

Mapillary has more potential. One person can collect lots of GPS
information, with contextual information(the photos), and a second person
(who is limited in how far they can go outside, or prefer to sit and edit
OSM than survey) can use this information.
Of course the second person still needs to be cautious if their local
knowledge is limited.
I tried to find a specific/suitable use case: mapping highstreet shops
(lots of detail, I like whizzing past them but don't like data-entry). It's
been almost 2 years, and just this week I got a message that someone had
tried to step up to the challenge. The success from my Mapillary photos was
limited, but they were also able to use Steven's Mapillary photos too!
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2014/09/maps-now-with-added-photos

On 25 May 2016 at 08:59, Jez Nicholson <jez.nichol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A low-cost easy to use GPS tracker has potential for increasing the volume
> of gps track uploading. Plenty of people happily upload tracks to Strava so
> I wonder what needs doing to get similar donations to OSMperhaps an
> open exercise app that also donates to OSM at the same time?
>
> As to devices, I'm thinking about the Garmin Virb GPS action camera for
> collecting Mapillary photos and OSM info.
>
> On Tue, 24 May 2016 22:13 Steven Horner, <ste...@stevenhorner.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe not quite the correct place but thought other OSM mappers may have
>> similar thoughts?
>>
>> The new Pebble Core looks like it could be useful for surveying. It has
>> GPS, voice input as well as Bluetooth and an API. It could be useful for
>> recording voice notes with GPS coordinates if the API allows. It does have
>> a sim card slot but think that's of less interest. Anyone else see the
>> potential?
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK chapter

2016-04-28 Thread Gregory

The details I have (from previous calls) is...

phone: 0800 229 0900
password: 332249

I started a document for collaborative/live minuting, here:
https://hackpad.com/2016-04-28-OSM-UK-Meeting-1G7GMcJ26O7
My WiFi connection hass been a bit funny lately, so hoping I stay able to
take minutes.

Gregory.

On 28 April 2016 at 18:11, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> I presume it is the same as previous conference calls. See older mails on
> this list.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 28 April 2016 at 17:16, Dennis Bauszus <dbaus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have the number and password for the conference call this evening already
>> been passed out?
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

2016-04-28 Thread Gregory

Is healthcare going to be our Q2 project?
It would be good to get a co-ordination list on a wiki page somewhere.

I've made a request to the North East Ambulance Service. However they're
aware not everyone informs them, so I'll probably contact some other
organisations I know.
They've previously responded to a request about Sunderland.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillators_5#incoming-536749

Gregory.

On 23 April 2016 at 12:37, Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Announced yesterday: Tesco is set to introduce defibrillators in over 900
> of its largest stores
>
> http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=17=1350
>
> Dave F.
>
>
> On 22/04/2016 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>
>> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
>> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
>> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
>> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
>> where one might be useful.
>>
>> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
>> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
>> list (
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm
>> )
>> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
>> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
>> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
>> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
>> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
>> wasting time in an emergency.
>>
>> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
>> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
>> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
>> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
>> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
>> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>>
>> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
>> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
>> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
>> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
>> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
>> like that in a location=* key.
>>
>> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
>> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
>> line they take...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Chapter Directors' Powers

2016-04-27 Thread Gregory

Sorry for replying to the other director-power thread before seeing this
more recent one.

The decision made in the meeting seems like a sensible one, and goes with
Richard's advise to make the AoA very permissive.

To help the member-led intention, we should perhaps be aiming to treat the
directors more as trustees and the ones that can "sign the cheque book" or
pass the cheque book to others as needed.

Gregory.

On 25 April 2016 at 14:51, Richard Fairhurst <rich...@systemed.net> wrote:

> Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > The poll we did last year (?) suggested that the OpenStreetMap UK
> > community want to be involved in decision making. My suggestion is
> > that, if this is the culture we want to breed then the Articles should
> > reflect this.
>
> I'm the chairman of a community-owned non-profit[1] limited company here in
> Charlbury. We have recently changed our Articles (for entirely unavoidable
> reasons). It was a glorious pain in the arse.
>
> I would strongly recommend that the articles should be the most permissive
> possible. Unless you have paid admin staff, this sort of thing is horrid to
> sort out. If you've got to the stage of resorting to the articles to
> resolve
> member/director conflict, then something went very wrong months ago and you
> should have dealt with it then.
>
> Besides, there are much more impactful things people could be doing to
> advance the state of OSM in the UK than faffing around with companies
> legislation, right?
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
> [1] not deliberately, we just don't make any money
>
>
>
> --
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> Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK chapter

2016-04-27 Thread Gregory

Apologies for not making the conference call last week, and I forgot to
send my apologies (was busy leading a Missing Maps event).

I should be able to make the one tomorrow evening.

I'm surprised we've got such a short list of members, are people waiting
for the first GM to happen when fees are to be set? You won't be
"auto-charged/enrolled" once we're established, so I don't see it as being
a commitment.
E-mail osmuk at nomoregrapes.com with your full name and postal address and
I'll add you onto the list.

Gregory.


On 22 April 2016 at 11:38, Brian Prangle <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> Last night's concall made some good progress: there are no minutes (Greg
> we missed you!), but here is a summary of decisions and contentions
>
> 1. Name to appear on incorporation documents will be OpenStreetMap United
> Kingdom Community Interest Company. No doubt in everyday use this will get
> shortened to OpenStreetMap UK, but our legal name will be the full monty
> 2. Drafting needed to ensure that co-option of Directors is subject to the
> same maximum (15) as elected Directors
> 3.Drafting needed for Directors election timetable
> 4. Removed all clauses (para 40) relating to member organisations ( these
> will be covered by Associate Members)
> 5. Can't remember what we decided on natural persons being Associate
> Members
> 6. After the meeting thought: do we need to insert a clause with an
> obligation to keep a register of Associate Members ( as OSMF has in its
> AoA)?
> 7. AGMs were agreed - timing as per draft
> 8. Incorporation Document CIC36 Community Interest Statementneeds drafting
> - Brian to prepare a draft
> 9. Founding members - more are needed urgently - there's no subscription
> set at this time. Remember that the first General Meeting will be held soon
> after incorporation where the Directors listed for incorporation will all
> resign for new ones to be appointed by the membership and various matters
> will be discussed and agreed which aren't appropriate in incorporation
> documents(e.g subscription rates). If you're not a founding member I guess
> legally you can't participate. Send your full name and address to osmuk at
> nomoregrapes.com (this is Greg Marler )
> 9. Powers of Directors. This was a contentious issue and took up most of
> the meeting. We agreed a way forward but there was considerabe discomfort
> about the outcome. It's fundamental to the organisation so deserves a wider
> discussion: expect a separate email and discussion shortly.
> 10 Next concall Thursday 28 April 8pm
>
> Anyone who was present at the concall please add or correct
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMUK AoA Directors Powers

2016-04-27 Thread Gregory

Jerry,

Is it possible to reference powers needed to fulfill the objectives of the
company (i.e. article 5 of the AoA) rather than(or in addition to)
"obligations & resolution of the members"? Or is already effectively what
option 6 is?

It would seem more sensible/normal to me.
E.g. With the objective to promote use of OSM in the UK, the directors
could decide they need a website and pay fees for hosting (in turn, decide
they need a bank account, etc), and they can just get that done.
If the membership disagree with having a website, they can call for the AOA
to be changed/amended "promote ... excluding through the use of a website"
without that process seeming like such a direct attack of trusting the
directors.
*Actually, thinking about it this all seems like option 3?*

*Key points though...*
1) Hopefully the majority of directors will be sensible and will stop money
being spent on "Uncle Geoff's Money Laundering Web Host Inc.".
2) Ultimately the directors spend/power is limited by funds. Funds are
limited by membership & open donations/sponsorship, so members could make
public statements/contact "Stop giving money to that OSM UK bunch, they
don't represent the me/us and they're dodgy". Any behind the scenes funds
or lack of budget/spend reporting, and we have other/bigger problems to
worry about.

Gregory.

On 21 April 2016 at 22:49, Jez Nicholson <jez.nichol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I had never considered that a pony may be in the offing...
>
> And the web site example is good. There needs to be a balance between
> getting things done by paying a reasonable amount and Directors going crazy
> with the cash. Checks and balances.
>
> How do we choose between the options?
>
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:00 SK53, <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A small document setting out a range of options for the Directors
>> Authority clause.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> Directors Powers Options
>>
>>
>> The basic boilerplate text of the Articles of Association provides that
>> Directors can exercise all the powers of the Company. In initial
>> discussions there was a strong consensus that OSM UK should be member led:
>> broadly that most or all iniatives should orginate with the membership,
>> with the Directors doing necessary work to facilitate such things.
>>
>>
>> To take a simple example: I would presume OSMUK would want a website.
>> Agreeing that a website is wanted & needed, then the Directors would need
>> to have powers to agree a contract & pay the fees, which in turn implies a
>> bank account etc. Allowing Directors full powers may mean that OSM UK
>> follows the interests & desires of the Directors rather than those of the
>> Members. In Rob Nickerson's original survey they were a range of things
>> suggested and different levels of approval for them.
>>
>>
>> The problem of restricting Directors' powers is that it is not always
>> clear what powers they may need to perform various tasks.
>>
>>
>> We can split powers into a number of different categories:
>>
>>
>>
>>-
>>
>>Basic powers needed to run the company as a going concern: ability to
>>have a bank account, pay bills etc.
>>-
>>
>>Entering into contracts. Necessary for many routine activities of a
>>company, but others may not be routine.
>>-
>>
>>Initiating projects.
>>
>>
>> So far I have conceived of a number of different ways we can express this
>> in the AoA:
>>
>>
>>
>>1.
>>
>>*Full powers*. Standard boilerplate text. Easy to do. Downside is
>>that removing powers may require alterations to AoA, and furthermore
>>restricting Directors' powers is quite likely to end up being contentious.
>>Any such process will appear to be a group of members not trusting the
>>Directors.
>>2.
>>
>>*No powers*. Powers need to be conferred explicitly by the Members.
>>This is the current draft. Downside is that it is likely to limit 
>> Directors
>>far too much. Such limitation is likely to be particularly troublesome at
>>the outset.
>>3.
>>
>>*No powers except those needed for Directors to fulfill legal &
>>fiduciary duties*. Basically an additional clause added to current
>>draft. This is an attempt to allow Directors to do necessary things but 
>> not
>>unnecessary ones. Likely to readily twisted for any purpose.
>>4.
>>
>>*Full powers limited for a term*. As current draft but Directors
>>given full powers until the f

Re: [Talk-GB] UK chapter

2016-04-04 Thread Gregory

I now have a spreadsheet with 6 founding members on. I've replied to each
person to confirm I received their e-mail.

Anyone future e-mails to [osmuk at nomoregrapes.com] with full name and
postal address, I'll also add as founding members and reply to confirm.
I'll do this in batches though, so it might be 2 weeks before you get a
reply.

>From Durham,
Gregory.

On 22 March 2016 at 17:02, Brian Prangle <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> Anyone wishing to be listed as a founder member on the incorporation
> documents to be registered at Companies House please send your full name
> and address to "osmuk at nomoregrapes.com" . In case anyone wonders whose
> address this is: it's Gregory Marler's
>
> I guess legally that entitles you to attend the first meeting (probably
> online) where various setting-up things have to be done - like electing
> officers, confirming the directors, opening a bank account and setting the
> membership subscriptions.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

2016-03-20 Thread Gregory

This isn't a description/blurb for the website/marketing.

This is for the AoA which is a legal document and needs to state what it
means when it refers to "OpenStreetMap". Reading the document (or searching
it for "OpenStreetMap") will help you understand the relevance. As Jerry
said on the call, it needs to be a proper legal definition (not using words
that need further definition) and it shouldn't matter too much to us (our
branding/slogan can change any time).


>From the land of the prince bishops,
Gregory.

On 20 March 2016 at 17:55, Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap) <map...@minoa.li>
wrote:

> Dang, wrong sender email and wrong destination email again!
>
> Maybe try:
>
> “A free map service where users don’t need to pay elephant-sized fees to
> reuse the data.”
>
> or
>
> “Maps without borders, literally.”
>
> —Amaroussi
>
> On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:36, Gregory <nomoregra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition of
> "OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.
>
> For me, I think it is important that OSM is not controlled by a single
> entity, and the ability to fork and/or replicate it is essential. Some folk
> may feel more strong about me. I am actually happy with the OSMF
> protecting/guarding the data and infrastructure at the moment. It may not
> ever happen or be needed, but I think it's good to keep possible if two
> foundations existed. Technology is possible, and will get better with the
> ability of duplicate databases that communicate to keep up-to-date without
> you noticing. This already happens within OSMF having two DB servers, and I
> think France had a DB server with a read/write API.
>
> Anyway, I also understand a clear/simple definition is needed.
>
> Currently...
> "Open Data and services managed by the OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd."
>
> Able to make it less exclusive?, so we're not fixed to the OSMF.
> "An open dataset and connected services which are available from
> OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd, and other/mirror providers."
>
> Possible?
> "A free geographic database created by a number of people, along with
> initiatives and services to promote it's maintenance"
>
> Just thought, how often do the draft AoAs mention "OpenStreetMap"?
> Answer: 9 times
> References: 5.1 (to OSM community), 5.2 & 5.3 (to OSM data), 6.6(actually
> a reference to OSMF), the CIC name(3 times), and the definition is 2
> occurrences.
>
> We talked about OSM community needing it's own definition.
> I still defend that the data on OSMF's servers is only one copy of it, it
> just happens that at the moment that copy gets accepted as the most recent.
> However, it seems defining the community is more important than defining
> OSM itself. :)
>
>
> From a 100-year-old terrace house,
> Gregory.
>
> [1] Notes of our meeting
> https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb
> [2] OSMF website has a (non-legal) description
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> P.S. I sent this on Thursday night, just from the wrong e-mail address so
> it didn't go through.
>
> --
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Re: [Talk-GB] Current Draft of OSM-UK Articles of Association

2016-03-18 Thread Gregory

I didn't see an e-mail with details for tonight's meeting.

Details I have are
Phone: 0800 229 0900
Code: 33224

I created a document for minutes/notes
https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb

Could we start using a consistent tag in the e-mail subjects? This will
help people like me set filters so I see messages stand out from the
general Talk-GB list.
How about adding [GB Chapter] to the subject of every e-mail?

>From Durham,
Greg.

On 17 March 2016 at 19:35, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just a few notes to help identify areas of the draft AoA which need
> discussion.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4m314mq1y1fs5j/OSMUK%20AOA%20Notes.pdf?dl=0
>
> Thanks to Rob, Andy, Robert & Brian for comments so far.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jerry
>
> On 15 March 2016 at 16:43, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> In order to provide everyone a chance to read the draft AoA before
>> Thursday's conference call, here is a link to the *current version *on
>> Google Docs:
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NbHiUcQjz0SHKlt6BzGp2z_Lo1YH1RmdEZ2kMkpNI04/edit?usp=sharing
>> .
>>
>> The link should allow comments, so corrections to typos, paragraph
>> numbering should be added directly on the document.
>>
>> I'll produce some guidance notes before the call as to the intention of
>> specific parts of the AoA. However for now. Articles 2-6, 8, 9 , 23, 26,
>> 27, 28 & 50 + the definitions are the parts worth checking over: much of
>> the rest is fairly standard boilerplate.
>>
>> I'm still trying to get my head around providing alternatives for various
>> membership scenarios (specifically allowing organisations as ordinary
>> members or not), So please bear in mind that the first three articles under
>> Members are subject to change.
>>
>> My earlier notes
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhcc87s9ee31md5/OSMUK_Governing_Papers.pdf?dl=0>
>> are still relevant: and I may well not have covered everything I intended
>> as working with the detailed text is very much "missing the wood for the
>> trees". Also working things in from the model articles is rather
>> reminiscent of creating spaghetti code.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM with Wikidata: now covers UK and Ireland

2016-03-11 Thread Gregory

I particularly want to echo Brian's advice to request permission from a
mapper in each county. Use the OSM wiki to find local mappers/groups for
that consultation.

A summary table would be helpful if it includes: county name, when the
mechanical edit was done, the status (done, refused, not yet consulted),
and the local representative's username).

Similar to the Naptan import.

>From a railway junction South of Newcastle,
Gregory.
On Mar 11, 2016 7:57 AM, "Colin Smale" <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Thanks Edward, that has removed the uncertainty and looks much better know.
>
> //colin
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-03-11 08:48, Edward Betts wrote:
>
> I've updated the category names in the database to remove " by country"
> from
> the end.
>
> Edward Betts <edw...@4angle.com> wrote:
>
> The category names are from Wikipedia. I start with the "Airports by
> country"
> category and just grab the subcategories for United Kingdom and Ireland.
> In a
> previous version I had code to strip the ' by country' from the end. I'll
> try
> and restore it to reduce the confusion.
> --
> Edward.
>
> Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi Edward,
>
> I took a look at the result pages and I noticed a small, but pervasive
> typo. All the listings of a category per county are actually titled per
> countRy on all the pages. For example on the Greater London page
> http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/gb-ie/region/Greater_London you see
> under the "categories" heading "Airports by country" instead of
> "Airports by county". From the content it is clear that you mean county.
>
>
> Only one letter, but a huge difference in meaning...
>
> Thanks
>
> Colin
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] (no subject)

2016-03-07 Thread Gregory

Could I float the idea of individuals & corporates being distinguished more
in name. Members (individuals) & corporate supporters/partners.

>From Newcastle,
Gregory.
On Mar 6, 2016 7:00 PM, "Brian Prangle" <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> I'll be scheduling a concall shortly where we can progress the Articles of
> Association and also hopefully finalise the objectives and name of the
> chapter.
>
> Membership options: the following is offered as a summary of what we might
> do:
>
> 1.Standard membership £5 per year
> Pros: affordable and inclusive
> Cons: doesn't give us a lot of revenue to do things
> 2.Discounts for multiple years purchase e.g. £40 for 12 years
> Pros: front loads income
> Cons: Accounting years complications
> 3. Life Membership  £100
> Pros and cons as for 2 above
> 4. Corporate membership
> SMEs with turnover <£1m, charities and public organisations £25
> Businesses with turnover > £1m  £250
> Pros: gives us revenue and a network of contacts.
> Cons: None I can think of except the amounts might be wrong; and there is
> some opinion we should wait before we invite corporate membership
>
> The controversial question is whether corporate members get a vote - still
> to be decided
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] New users and P2

2016-02-25 Thread Gregory

Probably a side-effect of being more recently created, but I've got the
impression iD is easier to make coded adjustments to & specialised
implementations of (certainly these exist).

That's just another small sales point for iD. But also provides the
argument: if you can't get improvements added, fork it and add them
yourself (could apply to Potlatch too).

Anyway, I use JOSM mainly. I agree with Jerry(SK53) in that we should be
supporting multiple editors and even specialised ones (for data-types or
entry-device).

>From "Durham Ridge",
Gregory.

On 25 February 2016 at 15:13, SK53 <sk53@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apart from other factors a very strong reason for favouring iD over P2 is
> that the latter is Flash-based, It therefore has a degree of in-built
> obsolescence, and may not be allowed for security reasons in some
> organisations.
>
> iD has been the default editor for a number of years now (just under 3
> IIRC), and the bulk of additional code for on-line editors is added to iD,
> mainly by MapBox. There have been enhancements to P2 too, but these are
> many fewer. So the latter is neither obsolete, nor in an end-of-life stage.
> However, when it's end comes it's likely to be swift as flash gets
> eliminated by major browsers.
>
> There's still plenty of space for on-line editors (for instance one which
> deals with highways, buildings etc as primitive objects rather than OSM
> elements as the current ones do): but whether anyone is willing to take on
> the odium of maintaining an OSM editor is moot.
>
> Furthermore, editors on mobile devices are much less mature, and there are
> substantial potential benefits in reducing or even eliminating the
> survey-edit-update cycle.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 25 February 2016 at 13:15, Dave F <davefoxfa...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> What's wrong with with suggesting users use P2 over iD?
>>
>> P2 has a few advantages over other editors. The only real benefit I've
>> noticed in iD is it prevents loading of data if user is zoomed too far out.
>> Something that Richard Fairhurst might be able to implement fairly easily
>> into P2.
>>
>> I'm even less encouraged to use iD after a couple of conversations with
>> two of the developers (the only two?). They appear resentful to many of the
>> suggestions for improvement.
>>
>> From memory Richard F. was a developer in the start up of iD, Is he still
>> involved?
>>
>> Dave F.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25/02/2016 09:30, Philip Barnes wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu Feb 25 06:43:23 2016 GMT, Andy Robinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I noticed that too Rob. Day before yesterday they all seemed to start
>>>> at the same time so I assumed it was uni students.
>>>>
>>>> We spotted them as new users from the bot that reports in  #osm-gb.
>>>
>>> They were spread over the country,  I assume the lecturer hasn't updated
>>> his notes, the default if you hit the edit button as a new user is iD.
>>>
>>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>>
>>>> From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 25 February 2016 00:24
>>>> To: Talk-GB
>>>> Subject: [Talk-GB] New users and P2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone aware of any recent OSM press - we've seen a lot of new OSM
>>>> mappers in the Midlands in the last 2 days :-)
>>>>
>>>> Also is Potlatch 2 still the default for new mappers as they all seem
>>>> to be using that? I though we'd switched to iD as the default across all
>>>> browsers now (although I don't remember where I read that!).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---
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>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UK group: Community Interest Company

2016-02-18 Thread Gregory

I had a chat with my friend who has set up a CIC. As we know, it's very
similar to a LTD in terms or fill in some forms and you're done, just an
extra form to do.
Her CIC isn't membership based/accountable, so the 2 directors can run it
as any other business.

>From the land of the prince bishops,
Gregory.

On 18 February 2016 at 07:27, Brian Prangle <bpran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob
>
> I've already contacted Frederik alerting him to the potential benefits of
> CIC to the OSMF and he's replied that they'll investigate it.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On 17 February 2016 at 22:57, Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> One of the outstanding actions for the UK group is should we set up as a
>> regular Limited Company or a Limited Company with Community Interest
>> Company (CIC) special features. The special features (e.g. Asset Lock)
>> sends a clear message of our intention to support the community rather than
>> personal gain.
>>
>> The two main questions are:
>>
>> Question 1: How much annual overhead?
>> It would require an extra annual form (CIC34) but as Brian noted during
>> the last meeting this is straightforward. Worked example:
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/454007/example-form-cic34-short-version2.doc
>>
>> Question 2: What if we end up dissolving the group?
>> In this case we need to find another CIC or a Charity to transfer any
>> remaining assets to. We cannot transfer to a plain Limited Company such as
>> the OSMF.
>>
>> In my view the annual overhead is minimal yet being a CIC brings clear
>> benefits from a transparency point of view. I would recommend that an OSMF
>> member raise the question of becoming a CIC to the OSMF Board as the
>> transparency would benefit them too (and should we ever dissolve the UK
>> group it would make things much simpler). If the OSMF were to "upgrade" to
>> CIC status it would cost them just GBP 25. They should consider what impact
>> the asset lock will have on their regular activities (e.g. cannot transfer
>> assets at less than full market value).
>>
>> Best,
>> *Rob*
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] place=village/town/city

2016-02-15 Thread Gregory

It might not have gone actually, my e-mailing doesn't always do the right
thing for the lists.

I quoted it in my last e-mail though.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-February/018474.html

On 15 February 2016 at 13:48, Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> I can't find Gregory's suggestion in my mailbox... did it go to the list?
>
> Is the suggestion to put place:designation=city on the place node? Or on
> an admin boundary, or on a landuse=residential or what? Why is
> place:designation needed, and not simply designation? And would this mean
> that St Davids is place=town, place:designation=city or the other way round?
>
>
> //colin
>
> On 2016-02-15 14:21, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
> On 15/02/2016 12:35, Gregory wrote:
>
> What did people think of my place:designation=* suggestion?
>
>
> Sounds good to me.  No uses yet (obviously), but would allow a more sane
> "place" tagging for e.g. St David's, which isn't a really city in any
> normal sense.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] place=village/town/city

2016-02-15 Thread Gregory

What did people think of my place:designation=* suggestion?

>From the "historic cathedral city of Durham",
Gregory.

>Should place:designation=* be a thing, so that we can save the legal
definition somewhere.
>
>You could then say we are tagging place=* for the renderer. But population
is not appropriate to be stored in OSM, and it seems a lot to ask of a
renderer to lookup population data for every city so it can order which
ones are most important to show (avoiding label collision). Renderers could
even use place=city|town on low zooms, but on high zooms use
place:designation=city to overlay a transparent label.
>
>In the UK a city was traditionally a place with a cathedral, legally it's
recognition from the queen. Lately she's make a few towns into cities for
giggles(or maybe something more serious/political, I don't follow it). I've
noticed every non-native English speaker (including Americans) seems to
struggle with the word "city" and even uses it for what I might consider a
village!
>
>From a very small city that has a magnificent cathedral,
>Gregory.

On 15 February 2016 at 12:22, Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Agreed...
>
>
> FWIW I have been using council_style=city or council_style=town on admin
> boundary relations (mostly civil parishes) to indicate non-default
> situations.
>
> This works where the status is held by a local authority, but where
> Charter Trustees are involved I don't have a solution in mind but Bath
> might be a good example to look at.
>
> --colin
>
> On 2016-02-15 12:08, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> On 12/02/2016 17:18, Colin Smale wrote:
>
> Several attempts have been made to "correct" the tagging from city to
> village/town... each time it was changed back to city...
>
>
> This, I think, illustrates why we really could do with a "legal_status"
> tag or similar for populated places. People, particularly those living in
> small (by population size) cities (in the legal sense) tend to be very
> protective of their city status, and dislike any attempt to override it.
> And saying that it's a global OSM policy isn't going to persuade them.
> Their argument (and to be fair, it's a very good argument) is that for a UK
> location, UK law takes precedence over the policy of a self-appointed
> voluntary group (which, ultimately, is all that OSM is). It's an argument
> that you won't win, short of banning people who disagree.
>
> The only way to reconcile this, in the long run, is to have two separate
> tags for populated places, one describing the size according to global OSM
> guidelines, and one describing the legal status according to local law.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Changeset #36985172 revert request - Deal area, Kent

2016-02-04 Thread Gregory Williams

The JOSM reverter doesn't seem to be working at the moment, so I've 
used Frederick Ramm's perl reverter script [1] to perform the revert. A 
few relations seem to have been edited since (presumably the 
coastline). I've taken a cursory glance through the boundaries and 
route relations and they seem to be OK, but I'll try to sanity check 
the data in more depth after work tonight.


Gregory

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Revert_scripts

On Thu, 4 Feb, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Colin Smale <colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> 
wrote:

Thanks Gregory. The epicentre seems to be Ringwould village.


Colin

On 2016-02-04 17:50, Gregory Williams wrote:

I did the original mapping of Deal, so I'll take a look later, when 
I can get to a PC.


Gregory

Sent from my FairPhoneOn 4 Feb 2016 16:13, Andy Townsend 
<ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:


On 04/02/2016 15:49, Colin Smale wrote:


Actually, this user has done a lot more damage, in many other 
changesets over the past few weeks... Methinks a candidate for a 
block pending contact... Anyone with an interest in the Deal area 
is recommended to check the area...ent



I'd suggest that a friendly "hello and welcome and by the way 
something seems to have gone a bit wrong" message would be more 
helpful at this time - it's technically much easier to sort out the 
data than it is to get a keen mapper back who was scared off 
because they don't understand what they've done wrong.  Currently I 
can see only 2 comments in changeset discussions (saying 
essentially "you broke stuff and I fixed it"; not offering to help).


Obviously any help and assistance would be better coming from 
someone in the local area; 
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?zoom=9=51.19266=1.54631=B00 
may be useful here to try and get someone local involved.


Cheers,

Andy (SomeoneElse)



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Re: [Talk-GB] Changeset #36985172 revert request - Deal area, Kent

2016-02-04 Thread Gregory Williams

I did the original mapping of Deal, so I'll take a look later, when I can get 
to a PC.

Gregory

Sent from my FairPhoneOn 4 Feb 2016 16:13, Andy Townsend <ajt1...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
>
> On 04/02/2016 15:49, Colin Smale wrote:
>>
>> Actually, this user has done a lot more damage, in many other changesets 
>> over the past few weeks... Methinks a candidate for a block pending 
>> contact... Anyone with an interest in the Deal area is recommended to check 
>> the area...ent
>
>
> I'd suggest that a friendly "hello and welcome and by the way something seems 
> to have gone a bit wrong" message would be more helpful at this time - it's 
> technically much easier to sort out the data than it is to get a keen mapper 
> back who was scared off because they don't understand what they've done 
> wrong.  Currently I can see only 2 comments in changeset discussions (saying 
> essentially "you broke stuff and I fixed it"; not offering to help).
>
> Obviously any help and assistance would be better coming from someone in the 
> local area; 
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?zoom=9=51.19266=1.54631=B00
>  may be useful here to try and get someone local involved.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy (SomeoneElse)
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] School mapping - Who's involved

2016-02-01 Thread Gregory

Hello,

1) I think isced:level is really helpful, as I've known people wanting a
list of "all primary schools nearby" for various jobs. Is there a map/list
that shows schools with that tag or not? Maybe something like ITO World's
maps?
1b) Ah, they have one for name/no-name, might be good to request
isced:level there too (or if it has the ID).
http://product.itoworld.com/map/6
1c) I'm being silly and forgetting how easy Overpass API is now. But it
doesn't allow two queries at once and to visually compare the difference.
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/e7o

2a) What tag are people using for the ID?
2b) Presumably the only way to get the/an ID is from the gov.uk data? It's
copyright doesn't allow use, but perhaps using it for the ID is okay? So
far this quarter I have been using OS StreetView or googling for a website
as a name source. As a result, all the schools I've edited/added in the
last month have a "website" tag.

Btw, County Durham is very annoying. Since maybe 3 years ago they have been
combining schools (juniors & infants into primary, or two villages now
having 1 school to share, plus all the academy-type name & management
changes). Probably a good time for this enjoyable project then! Meanwhile
my landlady's job involves visiting schools all over the county. Anyone got
a long lasting camera & a GPS logger I can secretly strap to her car/bag?

>From Durham,
Gregory.

On 1 February 2016 at 14:47, Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
> We've a few of way's of counting how many people are involved with the
> quarterly project to map schools. As such I have updated the wiki to focus
> on comments rather than the raw numbers (e.g. which areas are you mapping,
> how else are you helping). Feel free to update.
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Projects#Who.27s_involved.3F
>
> Latest data from the #OSMschools tag is here:
>
> http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2016/02/whos-involved-edits-to-openstreetmap.html
>
> Harry's tracker is great as it counts edits to amenity=school features:
>
> http://harrywood.dev.openstreetmap.org/diffreader/schools/index.php?filter=uk
>
> By features we've mapped nearly 1250 schools as ways, removed nearly 1000
> schools mapped as nodes (either converted to a way or removed duplication).
> Overall that is 250 "new" schools mapped. This is a minimum as I don't know
> how many of the 1000 nodes removed were duplicates.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G9KXfp4Ho3fVROO9MxotcYTydl9CEXB_fi5ko2pM5Kc/edit#gid=1336142515
>
> Happy mapping
> *Rob*
>
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[Talk-gb-thenorth] Maptime Durham

2015-09-08 Thread Gregory

Hello North GB!

I've started a Maptime chapter in Durham, if you're nearby then pop along
and join us.
http://maptime.io/durham/

Maptime isn't specifically OpenStreetMap, but it could be a great place to
discuss the mapping we do and meet the usernames improving the map
together. Welcome to all that like talking about or hearing about maps.

Any questions or thoughts, send me a message.

>From a wet and drizzly Durham,
Gregory.

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Re: [Talk-gb-thenorth] ?

2014-09-09 Thread Gregory

Oh,
I was considering requesting a North East mailing list and then found
this one already exists (I was subscribed too).

I might encourage people to join so events can be announced through the
list. I'm also looking to organise event(s) in Durham or Sunderland in the
future.

We could do with some increased activity, addresses show just one aspect
that is lacking.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/15108130686/in/photostream/

Gregory (LivingWithDragons).
P.S. Apologies to Tim moderating the list, I struggled to remember which of
my e-mail addresses I had registered with.

On 7 April 2012 14:47, Graham Heyes grahamhe...@hotmail.com wrote:

   Hello

 Is anyone else on this mailing list besides me prepared to keep this going?

 Graham

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Re: [Talk-GB] SOTM-EU in Karlsruhe in June / Early Bird ending soon

2014-04-29 Thread Gregory

Thanks for the reminders Frederik,

I've booked my SotM-EU ticket just in time to be classed an early-bird,
still time for others to join me!

I'm looking forward to visiting Germany again and enjoying some train
travel, but not the trip you mention. I'll be getting the train from
Amsterdam, and leaving via Brussels/London after a little bit of
friend-visiting in towns near Karlsruhe. I'm yet to book accommodation, but
it seems there is some good information on the SotM-EU website.

Greg.


On 23 April 2014 19:51, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Dear UK mappers,

this is just a quick reminder that the Early Bird discount for buying
 SOTM-EU tickets will end in a week. Tickets are EUR 55 now, and EUR 80
 from 1st May (or if you prefer, £45 now and £66 later).

 So get your tickets now and have more money left for beers and souvenirs ;)

 At http://www.sotm-eu.org/ we've already got the speaker line-up, as
 well as accommodation recommendations and a nice page with suggestions
 for short trips should you want to combine your conference visit with a
 bit of tourism - the money you save if you get the Early Bird ticket
 will already pay for this Black Forest train ride
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9789#map=13/48.1568/8.2535 for
 example ;)

 Bye
 Frederik

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Re: [Talk-GB] One for Post Box obsessives

2014-03-26 Thread Gregory


- Around Maidenhead a wall post box mounted in a brick pillar is a
fairly common type. I'm at a loss as to how these might be tagged using
post_box:type. A good example is SL6 4, which is tagged as a pillar, but
according to Post Hoc is a wall box
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postboxes/boxinfo.cgi?ref=SL6+4. See
this box on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oxfordshirechurches/2558826678/

 They're wall boxes but have had a brick post built for the purpose of
hosing them, right?
Maybe map the post as a short wall then! With a central node for the post
box.

I suppose the question is how would someone find these types of posts/post
boxes, and having to search post_box:type=wall get ways that node is in see
if way is barrier=wall check length of wall is less than 3m, is a bit too
harsh. But I think you're needing to describe the housing not the postbox.
Is a really generic key like site_type=purpose_built or
site_type=brick_post the right idea?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Possible vandalism? New Forth Road Bridge being changed to motorway from construction

2014-03-12 Thread Gregory

Often friendly messages are the best way to sort things out. But once it's
discussed in a group (e. g. mailing list) make it clear to others that
you're messaging the user, this stops everyone else bombarding their inbox.

If anybody is wanting a place to play with OSM tools, take a look at
http://opengeofiction.net
Beware if using JOSM, its not easy to flick between live/fictional servers.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Metropolitan counties and other boundaries

2014-02-27 Thread Gregory

It might be good to look at how My Society's MapIt api handles the levels.
I had to use that very quickly and then found myself writing lots of edge
queries to get the right level in the heirachy.
On 20 Feb 2014 19:53, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:

  Hi Robert,

 On 2014-02-20 20:17, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

 On 20 February 2014 11:34, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 one thing I noticed is that there are two schools of thought regarding
 Metropolitan Districts. These are a subdivision of Metropolitan Counties,
 of which there are six: Greater Manchester, Merseyside, South Yorkshire,
 Tyne and Wear, West Midlands and West Yorkshire.

 I would like to normalise this tagging, and looking at the current usage
 above and the wiki[1], propose that the Metropolitan Counties become
 boundary=ceremonial, and the Metropolitan Districts become
 boundary=administrative, admin_level=8.

 If the Metropolitan Districts have essentially the same
 administrative powers/functions as a unitary authority, then I think
 they should be tagged with the same admin_level (i.e. 6) to reflect
 that fact. We'd then be consistently using admin_level=6 for the
 highest tier of local government. If they are slighty different (i.e.
 some powers rest elsewhere) then maybe we could consider using
 admin_level=7 instead. As far as I can tell, they're definitely not
 similar to the district councils under a normal county council, so iI
 think it would be better to avoid using admin_level=8.

  Sounds reasonable to me. They are missing various powers of a true UA,
 which are organised at a Metropolitan County level in joint boards. So
 admin_level=7 would reflect that intermediate level.

 Ceremonial counties are a completely separate division of the country into
 Lord Lieutenancy areas -- see
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_counties_of_England . So in OSM
 I'd expect to find these in existence over the whole country, not just for
 the Metropolitan Counties. Since they have no administrative
 local-government function, I wouldn't expect them to need or have an
 admin_level tag. Sometimes they'll be coterminous with a normal county
 (i.e. the area controlled by a County Council). In which case, I'd expect
 to see two different relations in OSM, one for each entity.

 That is how lieutenancies/ceremonial counties are currently tagged -
 boundary=ceremonial, no admin_level. Indeed, if coterminous with an
 administrative county, then two relations are needed. I believe many
 already exist like this. See:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/English_Counties (which I have tried
 to keep up-to-date) for an overview. It looks like there are still a few
 missing - I will work on that.

 To further complicate things, it seems that in a relatively recent
 development, there is now a Greater Manchester Statutory City Region with
 a Greater Manchester Combined Authority that does have some significant
 administrative functions. See
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Manchester_Statutory_City_Region .
 This region is coterminous with the Greater Manchester Ceremonial County,
 but is a different entity. As above, I'd expect the two identical
 boundaries to have separate OSM relations. One with boundary=ceremonial and
 no admin_level tag, and the other with boundary=administrative and an
 appropriate admin_level. The admin_level value needs to be greater than 5
 (English Regions) and less than the value we've used for the individual
 borough/city areas. So presumably we wouldn't be able to use admin_level=6
 for the Metropolitan Districts within Greater Manchester, so 6 can be
 used by the Combined Authority.

 Hmm, I didn't realise that... Wikipedia suggests it may be modelled on the
 Greater London Authority, which limited, well-defined powers. There doesn't
 seem to be a relation for the GLA - but there is one (65606) at
 admin_level=6 called London.

 Whether we should use 7 rather than 8 for the Metropolitan Districts
 would, I think, depend on how much their powers/responsibility are similar
 to a normal districts within a normal county, and how much they retain more
 of the character of a Unitary Authority or other Metropolitan Districts.
 Robert.

  Colin

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Re: [Talk-GB] Warwickshire County Council releases aerial imagery

2014-02-27 Thread Gregory

I keep thinking it would also be good to have a list of councils  their
relationship with OSM.
e. g.  Warwrickshire County, released imagery, staff attend meetups, get in
touch via OSM user Jonathan for more info/queries.
On 8 Feb 2014 11:48, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 On 14 January 2014 14:15, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:

 On 14 January 2014 14:06, Jonathan Harley j...@spiffymap.net wrote:
  Jonathan Moules of Warwickshire County Council came to a midlands
  OSM meet on Saturday and told us about it, and subsequently confirmed in
  email to several of us that it is OGL v2.0.

 That's great but I guess we're going to need at least that email put
 somewhere on the wiki so it's documented or maybe an email from him to
 this list?


 Could this information be documented somewhere? I'd like to approach some
 other councils to see if they would follow suit, but it's not helped by the
 fact that the Warwickshire council web site still says this aerial imagery
 is copyrighted. It would be good to have something to send to other council
 officers to show Warwickshire have opened theirs up.

 Regards,
 Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Open Government Licence

2014-02-04 Thread Gregory

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_local_councils
Any path not on these documents by 2026 will no longer be a right of way.
We are hoping to get some of these released under a compatible license so
that we can help identify missing paths.

If we can get the data under an OpenData license...
What tagging should/is being done to identify which ones are in the
council's map (or not in it)?

Quickly looking at Durham city, there are several footpaths and alleyways
that are in OSM but not in the Council map, and vice-versa. I could do a
lot with memory from my armchair.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Bitcoin business listings

2014-01-22 Thread Gregory

The CoinMap creator is on the talk mailing list and a discussion took place
in December.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-December/068758.html

Some suggestions and some improvements were made, such as improving the
text on the website.
http://coinmap.org/

There is also a git hub repository now.
https://github.com/prusnak/coinmap




On 22 January 2014 12:13, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote:

 This is advertising pure  simple. It needs to be deleted.


 On 22 January 2014 11:49, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 Hello,

 A little while ago Amaroussi posted a diary entry about people adding
 bitcoin payment info to OSM objects:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Amaroussi/diary/20772

 I've just spotted somebody adding a node that looks like it's solely for
 the purpose of showing up on listings like CoinMap:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2631585539

 In this case, it looks like it's just a business listing for a carpenter
 who happens to live in this tower block, not a physical workshop (which
 could conceivably be added as building=yes and craft=carpenter).

 Has anyone else noticed these? I'm inclined to contact the user
 explaining why I think he/she should delete the node. I wouldn't want to
 see OSM fill up with pointless info like this.

 Regards,
 Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM in Linux Format magazine

2014-01-21 Thread Gregory

Can someone add the details to the Media page please.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_in_the_media

I think each article should have it's own entry/line.


On 17 January 2014 14:17, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:


 OK just read it properly... turns out they're not particularly sanctioning
 us as it happens - just having a go at the Guardian which I suppose is par
 for the course for the likes of the Adam Smith Institute.

 -Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: -
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 From: Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
 Date: 17/01/2014 02:15PM

 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OSM in Linux Format magazine


 Not sure that having a right-wing think tank sanction us is particularly
 good though! ;-)

 Nick

 -Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: -
 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 From: Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com
 Date: 17/01/2014 01:07PM
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OSM in Linux Format magazine

 On 17/01/2014 08:17, Bob Kerr wrote:
  Also in the Guardian an article
 
 
 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/14/why-the-world-needs-openstreetmap
 

 See also Adam Smith Institute reaction here:

 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/regulation-industry/why-are-the-concepts-of-competition-and-monopoly-so-difficult-for-people-to

 --
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Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail Parcelforce delivery offices

2014-01-14 Thread Gregory

I think amenity=post_office has a specific meaning in the UK and we
shouldn't be mapping the Royal Mail depots as offices.

There are always some confusing cases.
I've gone past a Royal Mail depot and Post Office that are attached. I'm
guessing most town centre depots have been closed down and only Post
Offices exist now. The sorting office has a separate entrance (I suspect
only open in the morning while most people are at work). I haven't mapped
the amenity=post_depot as my battery has usually died from earlier mapping
from the bus trip (eventually I'll get there), feel free to do so from
aerial imagery.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/54.84322/-1.47110

Greg.


On 12 January 2014 21:49, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:


 On 12 Jan 2014, at 13:03, Borbus bor...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 12/01/14 12:30, Andy Street wrote:
  On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:52:02 +
  John Aldridge j...@jjdash.demon.co.uk wrote:
 
  Is there a consensus on how to tag Royal Mail  Parcel Force delivery
  offices?
 
  Are these amenity=post_office, or something else?
 
  If there is a facility that allows the general public access to collect
  or send mail then I'd consider amenity=post_office to be appropriate.
 
 
 
  They're not Post Offices, though.  Post Office (capitalised) has a very
 specific meaning in the UK, with more services than just posting letters.
  It depends what we want amenity=post_office to mean but I'd say at a
 minimum without further tags it should mean you can actually post
 something.  If someone goes to a Local Delivery Office with a parcel to
 post they will be in for a surprise.
 

 I agree, we need a different tag for delivery offices compared to post
 offices which are significantly different. If a lay person searches for a
 post office they need to get what they expect to be a post office. I’ve
 recently come across someone who was essentially saying OSM is confusing
 due to the problems with the located in parts of the Nominatim search
 results being wrong. A similar thing will happen here.

 Delivery Offices will pretty much only accept prearranged parcels and
 pickups.

 The pickup of parcels from Post Offices is a fairly recent change.

 Companies such as Collect Plus and myHermes operate through newsagents and
 smaller supermarkets, thus I’d say it’s a property of the shop rather than
 being an amenity itself within the shop as it’s the same counter that you
 buy stuff from where you drop off and collect the parcels.

 Shaun


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Re: [Talk-GB] Schools and OSM

2014-01-03 Thread Gregory

Oddly as it seems (if you've been in OSM +3 years), Ordnance Survey might
offer help/partnering. At the FOSS4G conference they gave a workshop on
QGIS and the instructions told how to load in OSM data before getting near
OS(Open) Data.

There is this wiki page, although it may be dated or university-aimed, it
should be a place to continue coordinating documentation/resources.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Education
The see also and external links at the bottom seem to be most useful,
at quick glance.

Greg.

On 1 January 2014 13:16, Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com wrote:

Well fwiw, the curriculum here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-geography-programmes-of-study
mentions GIS but doesn't give much detail...

Dan

2013/12/31 Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net:
Well spotted! Getting a hold of the curriculum materials would be a good
place to start, so we could look for opportunities for them to learn
about
OSM.

Regards,
Tom

On 31 December 2013 11:05, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone

I've just read in a magazine that GIS is now specified in the new
geography curriculum from Key Stage 3 through to A levels, which means
3.5
milllion 11-18 year olds ned to learn about GIS. ESRI already have a
Schools
programme in place to take advantage of this.

Is this an opportunity for OpenStreetMap? How would we start?

Regards

Brian

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[Talk-GB] Fwd: [OSM-talk] SotM-EU 2014 in Karlsruhe, Germany

2013-12-06 Thread Gregory

Hello all,
See the message below regarding SotM-EU in June.
http://www.sotm-eu.org/

From past experience you can get cheap flights to Stuttgart, although I
might get the train again if I have time (the journey is a holiday in
itself).

Greg.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
Date: 5 December 2013 14:33
Subject: [OSM-talk] SotM-EU 2014 in Karlsruhe, Germany
To: Talk Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org, d...@openstreetmap.org 
d...@openstreetmap.org


Hi,

   today I have the pleasure to announce that we'll be holding SotM-EU
2014 in Karlsruhe, on 13-15 June. We've set up the web page at
www.sotm-eu.org and we'll be posting news there and on @sotmeu on Twitter.

We'll be trying to emulate the success of the 2011 Vienna conference,
bringing together everyone who does anything interesting in  with
OpenStreetMap in Europe.

The call for papers will be out soon, with registration to open early
2014. We already have a good international programme committee preparing
that but if you'd like to join the programme committee or otherwise help
organising the conference (or aspects of it), don't be shy and write to
i...@sotm-eu.org. Same if you have any ideas that you'd like the
organisers to consider.

We'll be distributing this announcement to the dev and talk lists
as well as to talk-fr and talk-de. If you are on one of the other
regional European lists, we would be grateful if you could forward
the announcement.

I'm looking forward to seeing you in Karlsruhe next year!

Bye
Frederik

PS: we = the local Karlsruhe team  everyone involved

--
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Re: [Talk-GB] cycle.travel - new OSM-powered cycling site

2013-12-04 Thread Gregory

Ooo interesting and quite exciting to have another UK cycle route planner.
Some initial comments:

* The cartography is surprisingly different. I've been less-accustomed to
pale maps that I associate more with paper.
* Did I see a grid line on the cartography? I think the zoom levels for
that might need to be adjusted, as I only saw one thick horizantal line
that made no sense.
* Love the mile markers.
* I'm not used to dragging the route OSRM-style. I normally do this
mentally (or physically when I forget the route on-the-road), but I might
try it out over time.
* Can I not drag the route on circular routes? This would be helpful to
iron out a long double-back stretch at the start.
* Wow, was just about to close the page when I clicked the elevation
profile button.

I'll definitely be wanting to try this out next time I have somewhere to
go. Thanks Richard.



On 2 December 2013 21:46, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh, I forget to say that I like the way you are using the OS Open Data to
 add the built up landuse areas. Hopefully it will also encourage more
 people to map buildings to help improve the OSM data.

 Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] cycle.travel - new OSM-powered cycling site

2013-12-04 Thread Gregory

Hmm, I think the gridline must be a glitch in the data.
Roughly across Hadrian's Wall (i.e. through Newcastle)
http://cycle.travel/map?lat=54.7868lon=-1.7674zoom=10
My lunch break is over so I can't investigate/fix the issue now. As some
zoom levels are fine, I suspect the data has been fixed.

But it leads me to the questions:
* Are the tiles available for others to use?
* What is the data refresh rate (near-live or a regular import of some
amount)?


On 4 December 2013 13:14, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Ooo interesting and quite exciting to have another UK cycle route planner.
 Some initial comments:

 * The cartography is surprisingly different. I've been less-accustomed to
 pale maps that I associate more with paper.
 * Did I see a grid line on the cartography? I think the zoom levels for
 that might need to be adjusted, as I only saw one thick horizantal line
 that made no sense.
 * Love the mile markers.
 * I'm not used to dragging the route OSRM-style. I normally do this
 mentally (or physically when I forget the route on-the-road), but I might
 try it out over time.
 * Can I not drag the route on circular routes? This would be helpful to
 iron out a long double-back stretch at the start.
 * Wow, was just about to close the page when I clicked the elevation
 profile button.

 I'll definitely be wanting to try this out next time I have somewhere to
 go. Thanks Richard.



 On 2 December 2013 21:46, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh, I forget to say that I like the way you are using the OS Open Data to
 add the built up landuse areas. Hopefully it will also encourage more
 people to map buildings to help improve the OSM data.

 Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] London LOOP

2013-10-31 Thread Gregory

I had wondered about that but I didn't know how official the section
dividing was (there could be several routes guides suggesting different
break points) and what copyright implications there are as the sections
aren't marked on the ground.

I hope it's mapped okay through Bushy Park and Crane Park, I think I did
some of those bits with my mum.

Greg.


On 30 October 2013 11:44, Derick Rethans o...@derickrethans.nl wrote:

 Hey!

 I've recently started walking the London LOOP[1]. It's a 24 section
 walking tour around London which seems mostly fully mapped (yay!).
 However, it is mapped as one route which is rather large (245km). I
 wonder whether it would be a good idea to actually split it up in each
 of the sections and use a relation to combine them into the LOOP? Right
 now, it is really not possible to see where each section starts and
 ends. I'm more than happy to do this when I go around - and of course at
 the same time update the route where it has changed.

 cheers,
 Derick

 [1] http://derickrethans.nl/the-loop-part1.html

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Re: [Talk-GB] SOTM 2013 - Final programme and end of mates rates

2013-08-29 Thread Gregory

Confirmed the programme worked on:
Linux: Chrome (incognito mode so logged out) and Firefox.

The box does flicker with some message (loading Google Drive I think)
first though.

It looks like Friday's schedule has been added to Lanyrd already, check
back in another day or two and the guys might have got added the rest of
the schedule added. http://lanyrd.com/2013/sotm/


On 29 August 2013 23:17, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hmm, that's odd as I seem to see it fine with and without my google
 account. Anyone else able to confirm this for me please?

 The programme will be making it's way onto Lanyrd soon so you should be
 able to view it there. Lanyrd has a great website designed for mobile
 devices (and a dedicated app) so this will be ideal for conference
 delegates wanting to check the schedule.

 Regards,
 Rob



 On 29 August 2013 18:36, Sam Larsen samlars...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 Rob,

 This only seems to load if you are signed into Google.  I try my best not
 to be signed in these days ;)  You might want to look into that.

 Sam


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Re: [Talk-GB] State of the Map Scotland 2013 October 11-12 - Speakers

2013-08-28 Thread Gregory

Hi Bob,

When and where?
Okay, I eventually found
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Scotland_2013 (I don't
think it was mentioned on the Scotland page).
Friday 11th and Saturday 12th October 2012 10am-4pm, Edinburgh.

I might be interested (need to work out if I could make it). I've started
mulling over some talk ideas, but too late for the main SotM.
Are you coming to Birmingham for SotM13?

Greg.


On 28 August 2013 11:03, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 Hi,

 We are starting to organise speakers for State of the map Scotland. I know
 everyone will be busy with SOTM2013 but if there are people that would like
 to give talks at our event please let me know

 Cheers

 Bob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Building in space

2013-08-25 Thread Gregory

It's quite complicated(conceptually and technically) and that level of
detail is not done by many people yet.

There is information in the wiki though, and several people are thinking a
lot about it. I think there will be a few talks about mapping for
disabilities at this year's State of the Map.

A quick search threw up these pages for me:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Levels
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IndoorOSM#Modeling_the_different_levels_.28floors.29

Greg.


On 25 August 2013 12:57, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:

 I have a multi-story car park which I need to add a 'shopmobility' hire
 store on the top level and correctly link to the footpaths and roads so
 that routing works for disabled users. The only road access is on the base
 level, and disabled bays are on the top level next to the shop. Footpaths
 all come of the top level and the road access slopes steeply away from the
 car park. Just to add to the fun, there is a car valeting business 3
 stories below, as well which is also not mapped currently. I'm not seeing
 anything in the wiki as a guide to handle this.

 --
 Lester Caine - G8HFL
 -
 Contact - 
 http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=**contacthttp://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
 L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
 EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
 Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
 Rainbow Digital Media - 
 http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.**ukhttp://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Probation offices

2013-08-07 Thread Gregory

I like the use of the 'office' tag. It feels like a good extension of
tagging a building with something like building=office (I don't know how
much that is used, I map building=residential a lot more).

I don't think that the (now blocked) passage between HMP Durham and the
holding cells under Durham Crown Court is mapped. But osm.org is currently
down so I can't check and that's another story anyway (along with why I
know it).


On 7 August 2013 15:53, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 I will add an entry on the Wiki as mentioned and update the existing tags
 where appropriate.

 Thanks
 Steven


 On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 You could also have a look at, and perhaps update, other probation
 offices. There are a few scattered about:

 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=probation#values

 If you search for the names on the main OSM page you can find them to
 inspect the tagging.

 Tom


 On 7 August 2013 14:11, Jonathan Bennett jonobenn...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 07/08/2013 13:47, Steven Horner wrote:
  Thanks I will go with office=probation unless others disagree.

 No disagreement, but *please* document what you've used the tag for on
 the wiki. Don't bother with the approval process, but do give a brief
 description of what a probation office does and why you'd want to visit
 one, so people have an idea when to use the tag.


 J.

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Re: [Talk-GB] BBC News - Google Map Maker edit tools extended to cover the UK

2013-04-11 Thread Gregory

I've noticed this page has a description of the difference:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_map_maker


On 11 April 2013 12:51, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 Sorry, that should, of course, been the closed nature of Google data.


 On 11/04/13 12:49, Chris Hill wrote:

 I've just had an email from Leo, who wrote the piece and it seems he may
 add to it including a reference to the closed nature of OSM and
 acknowledging OSM. I also pointed him to RichardF's tweet describing
 crowd-serfing 
 https://twitter.com/richardf/**status/296244090415239168https://twitter.com/richardf/status/296244090415239168



 --
 Cheers, Chris
 user: chillly


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Re: [Talk-GB] Railway bridge numbers

2013-04-09 Thread Gregory Williams

Yes, this is what I do. In fact the example which Chris picked out was done by 
me a few years ago when I cycled through the area. I’ve tagged quite a few 
bridges like this in Kent. You’ll also notice that I’ve included the operator, 
operator’s phone number, bridge name, etc. on the relation too when they’re 
included on the sign.

 

Railway structure numbers seem to have a letter portion, which denotes the 
line, and a sequential numeric portion. Occasionally there are places where an 
extra bridge has been added and these have a letter suffix, just like extra 
motorway junctions.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net] 
Sent: 09 April 2013 14:55
To: Andy Mabbett; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Railway bridge numbers

 

Some railway bridges near me have already been added to a bridge relation, not 
by me, that includes the reference. See 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/446579 as an example. I don't know 
if this a good idea or not, nor if the number is what you have in mind.

Cheers, Chris
OSM User chillly

Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk  
wrote:

All railway bridges (over- and under-) in the UK have a unique number.
often carried on a metal (more recently plastic) identification plate,
or painted on:

http://www.semgonline.com/structures/numbering.html

Among other things, these are used to speedily identify the bridge in
case of a vehicle strike which may pose a danger to trains or other
traffic:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3563.aspx

Do we have a scheme for tagging UK railway bridges with their numbers?
I have looked on Wiki, and can't find anything, and my local bridges
are either not tagged; or tagged (for example) ref = B4124:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/103233329

which does not identify that number as being a NetworkRail reference
(if indeed it is, being on a road overbridge maintained by the local
authority).

If we do not have something more specific, I'm happy to draft
something for discussion.

--
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk


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[Talk-GB] OSM on BBC TV

2013-04-08 Thread Gregory

Hello,

My house mate was watching Man Lab while I was cooking dinner and heard
we've armed ourselves with the latest in mapping technology.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rsk2w/James_Mays_Man_Lab_Series_3_Episode_2/?t=50m30s
A closer look at 55:20, but his hand covering the attribution!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rsk2w/James_Mays_Man_Lab_Series_3_Episode_2/?t=54m25s

I look over his shoulder and what do I see, none other than the
OpenStreetMap base map being used by James May.
I think it was this website:
http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=


Nothing in the credits. Is it worth looking into this?

I think it would be nice to have a wiki page OSM spotted in the wild or
notable OSM use, probably categorised by countries and medium.

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM on BBC TV

2013-04-08 Thread Gregory

Yep, I think I worded my e-mail a bit too strongly on the attribution.
I think it would be fun to keep a list of such sightings. But perhaps I
haven't caught up with the current OSM state in which uses of it are
becoming really frequent.


On 8 April 2013 19:49, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I must admit I am hoping that SOTM being in the UK this year will give us
 some good media coverage.

 Dudley

 --
 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 14:41:04 +0100
 From: k...@k3v.eu
 To: nomoregra...@googlemail.com
 CC: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OSM on BBC TV



 On 8 April 2013 12:13, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:

 ...I think it was this website:
 http://www.netweather.tv/indeI think it would be nice to have a wiki page
 OSM spotted in the wild or notable OSM use, 
 x.cgi?action=lightning;sess=http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning%3bsess=


 Nothing in the credits. Is it worth looking into this?


 I also noticed this, probably because I have been using the netweather.tvsite 
 for quite a while. Free weather radar on an OSM basemap is pretty
 cool. The website attributes OSM which I think is all that could be
 expected. I don't think TV would ever be expected to attribute things which
 appear fairly incidentally and if anything they should have credited
 netweather rather than OSM.

 Kevin

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Easter Weekend

2013-03-28 Thread Gregory

Hmm, a shame it's short notice and the one weekend I'm busy travelling.
I'm partially thinking I could be in Brum for Saturday evening, it would be
good to meet the folk I don't know.

Durham to Nottingham via Birmingham is a strange route, but the detour
makes it cheaper if I hitch a lift from Birmingham way with my brother.

Greg.

On 27 March 2013 17:20, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone

 Henk and Floris are coming over from the Netherlands this weekend to do
 some scouting and videoing for the conference. They've suggested a
 pub/curry get together for either Sat or Sun evening.  Anyone around?
 Anyone want to meet Henk and Floris?

 Regards

 Brian

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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

2013-01-03 Thread Gregory Williams

One feature that I've found that I now use quite frequently to help with the
problems associated with increasingly detailed mapping is the Filter panel
in JOSM. Now that, for example, there's lots of landuse, buildings, and
highways all in fairly close proximity I have filters to pick out, for
example, just the highways. That enables me to avoid accidentally selecting
an adjacent woodland to a highway when adding a maxspeed for example.

 

One of the levels of detail that I've been collecting recently is the
maxspeed of all the roads in my area. I have a filter set up such that roads
with a maxspeed are dimmed, such that I can easily see the places that I
still need to gather the data, and such that I don't miss tagging those
small portions of roads, like turning heads and bridges.

 

From: Nick Allen [mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 January 2013 22:24
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

 

Steve,

Putting another perspective on this, one of my other hobbies is Scouting,
where I try to teach young people about maps  navigation. In this country
there is a tendency to assume that any navigation must involve OS maps,  I
try to widen their knowledge  get them to question the accuracy of anything
they are using for navigation. I've put in quite a few boundaries 
barriers, to OSM, and I produce paper maps for my Scouts to navigate by,
before I introduce them to compasses, GPS's  anything else that aids
navigation.

As a mapper, I do find that it is getting more  more difficult to alter or
add to data because we've added so much detail. I would like someone (sorry,
don't have any skills in the software department) to produce something that
aids in editing densely compacted data - certainly I've made my share of
mistakes in the past  then spent twice as long trying to correct them. 

I don't know about anyone else, but every so often I need a break from
walking residential streets collating address details, and a walk in the
countryside works for me.

Regards

Nick (Tallguy)

On 02/01/13 15:50, Steven Horner wrote:

I guess it depends on your uses for OSM, I come from a walking
backgroundwith GIS use in my day job, I have completed Mountain Leader
Training and I am interested in the possibilities of replacing Explorer maps
(one day) with OSM. For this to happen boundaries would be  useful although
not essential and their would be lot of other hurdles like Grids but that's
a different topic. 

 

I set this discussion away and expected different view points for and
against. My take on all this is if you are happy to go out and map them,
then do so. If someone else isn't interested in doing that then that's no
problem and if a user doesn't want that information shown on map it could be
removed from their rendering in the same way I wish it was available at
lower zoom levels.

 

OSM is different things to different people and that is part of the beauty
of it, in my mind the more detail the better the ability to view it our own
ways is available although I wish their was a way to turn some things on and
off more easily from Openstreetmap.org without rendering my own version.

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com
mailto:dave...@madasafish.com  wrote:

On 31/12/2012 21:17, Steven Horner wrote:

Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
make this up marked on OSM ...


I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit of a party pooper.

Whilst having all the boundary data in OSM would be nice, I'd hardly call it
essential. I do a lot of rural walking  always record  map any barriers
that are relevant to the path I'm on, but, personally,  I consider mapping
all hedges etc. a waste of time. Why bother if no one is ever going to use
that information by walking there?

I consider farmland as the base layer  therefore rarely map it as fields.

Cheers
Dave F.





 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=

2013-01-02 Thread Gregory Williams

 -Original Message-
 From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 [mailto:robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 02 January 2013 11:23
 To: talk-gb
 Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM: prow_ref=

 On 31 December 2012 16:38, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote:
  Not that I'm overly bothered, but since the wiki was only changed a
  few hours ago, and tag info statistics seem to show a greater usage of
  prow:ref, I'd have thought standardising on that (and changing the
  wiki) would have been the better option.

 Do you remember what figures were you looking at?

 The taginfo data I'm looking at today at
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=prow_ref is dated as
 2013-01-02 00:58 UTC and shows 670 uses of prow_ref, versus only 361 of
 prow:ref. Have things changed that much in a couple of days?

Sorry that's probably mainly down to me, but I never got round to emailing
this list. After reading the email the other day pointing out that prow_ref
is more in keeping with things like old_ref and int_ref and that prow:ref
implied a prow namespace I was inclined to agree. As somebody that's put in
quite a few prow:ref tags I went and changed them to prow_ref, but got
interrupted before I could send a quick email to the list.

Gregory

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Re: [Talk-GB] Yorkshire Dales or Forest of Bowland - unmapped areas?

2012-12-18 Thread Gregory

+0.5.
I'm back at work by then, but might head over from Durham for the Saturday.
Possibly even the Sunday.

So I'm in favour of it being close to Durham by public transport. Or maybe
I'll go and visit a friend on the West coast.
My experience of West and South of Durham is quite bare mapping or armchair
mapping(e.g. round Middlesborough). Occasionally you get a long line of
paths where Mike has been years ago, or you get a pocket of intense data
where I've been on a weekend retreat.

Greg.

On 17 December 2012 15:29, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 +1

 ** **

 *From:* Michael Collinson [mailto:m...@ayeltd.biz]
 *Sent:* 17 December 2012 13:54
 *To:* Nick Whitelegg
 *Cc:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Yorkshire Dales or Forest of Bowland - unmapped
 areas?

 ** **

 Well, the scenery around Malham and upper Wharfedale, Nidderdale,
 Swaledale is simply the best in the world ... Though I do admit to a slight
 bias. The beer int half bad neether.

 ** **

 I have very extensively mapped and cross-referenced  Wharfedale+ paths and
 tracks from Npe, os25k and Bing but the area is crying out for extensive
 ground truthing, in particular adding modern official designations (hallo
 Freemap!) Perhaps only 20 - 40% is done? I only get to do one or two walks
 per year.

 ** **

 Mike


 On 17 Dec 2012, at 14:31, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
 wrote:

 ** **

 Hi,

 ** **

 Am thinking of getting away for 2 or 3 days early in the new year (1st-4th
 Jan) to somewhere hilly in the north of England within easy reach (by
 train/bus) of the Manchester area I haven't been to very often before,
 which would mean the Dales or the Forest of Bowland. Anyone from that area
 familiar with any areas which have good scenery and haven't had much in the
 way of footpath mapping?

 ** **

 Looking round the area on OSM it seems fairly well covered but then I
 don't know it too well.

 ** **

 If I decide on somewhere likely I can always organise a mapping party.

 ** **

 Thanks,
 Nick

 ** **

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Re: [Talk-GB] The Monsal Trail in Derbyshire

2012-12-17 Thread Gregory

Should it not be highway=track, access:motorcar=no (access:foot=yes, etc if
desired).
That lets me know I can cycle 2-abreast, it is fairly firm (track grade
could also be specified), and if I fall off then an ambulance driver can
follow his specialised satnav to get to me. I have had a situation a few
years ago where OSM  some adrenalin helped me get an ambulance on the C2C,
the printed cycle map we had was unhelpful.

I'd also make a point about route relations, but that has been done already.

Greg.


On 16 December 2012 08:26, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 A trail such as Monsal (and many others that follow disused rail lines) is
 normally accessible by vehicle for maintenance purposes. It's not open to
 the general public as it's a leisure route for walkers, cyclists and horse
 riders (though I can't recall ever seeing a horse on there in all the times
 I've visited).

 Cheers
 Andy

  -Original Message-
  From: Dave F. [mailto:dave...@madasafish.com]
  Sent: 16 December 2012 01:07
  Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] The Monsal Trail in Derbyshire
 
  On 15/12/2012 18:44, SomeoneElse wrote:
   A couple of weeks ago I spent a very cold day walking up and down part
   of the Monsal Trail - essentially from Little Longstone to the A6.
  
   It has been remapped since the tunnels reopened, but is in places a
   bit of a hodge-podge, so I propose to standardise it a bit as follows:
  
   o Instead of the mixture of highway=cycleway, highway=path and
   highway=track that exists currently, replace with highway=track
   throughout (it's all wide enough for the trail maintenance folks' Land
   Rovers), but with appropriate access tags (which is I think* foot and
   bicycle=yes or permissive, and probably horse=yes or permissive,
   vehicle=no) and also surface and lit tags.
 
  I don't know this route; do motorised vehicles have access to all of it?
  If not I don't think highway=track should be used throughout. According
 to
  the wiki it is accessible to all vehicles.
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Track.
 
  
   o Where the name tag incorporates both a tunnel name and a trail name
   (like with way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/116465140)
  move
   the tunnel name to some other tag.  Although I'm normally sqeamish
   about having paths labelled after the most well-known trail that uses
   them, in the case of the Monsal Trail I'm tempted to leave the
   name=Monsal Trail labelling, because that's what the locals would
   refer to it as.
 
  Route relations were invented to specifically solve this problem. The
 Monsal
  Trail is a route that uses these ways. Other named routes could also use
  them, now or in the future. Putting the route in a relation avoids naming
  clashes. See the numerous NCN routes as examples.
 
  
   o Some of the ways that formed the old Monsal Trail before the tunnels
   reopened are still present in OSM (and in some cases far from obvious
   on the ground).  Where these are tagged as bicycle-appropriate but
   clearly aren't I'll remove that tagging;
 
  Again, I don't know the specifics, but just because the route has be
 moved
  does that mean you can't cycle on the old ways?
 
 
  Cheers
  Dave F.
 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Unfit for motors - tagging for routing

2012-12-10 Thread Gregory Williams

motor_vehicle=no says that motor vehicles aren't legally allowed along the
road. That's not the case as Aidan has pointed out that these are the
blue-backed advisory signs. If going with the commonly-used tags then I
think that, whilst it's still technically not right,
motor_vehicle=destination would be a better hack. However I don't like
hacks.

 

There are several roads near me marked Unsuitable for HGVs, a similar
blue-backed advisory sign, which I've tagged with hgv=unsuitable. I don't
know whether any of the routers actually do anything with this at the
moment, but I think that the best tagging for the Unfit for motors would
be the equivalent motor_vehicle=unfit or motor_vehicle=unsuitable.
Personally I can't see any difference between saying unfit or
unsuitable, so I'd be tempted to go with the one that's currently got the
greatest number of uses, motor_vehicle=unsuitable (though with only 11
uses according to taginfo it's hardly high!; 0 instances of
motor_vehicle=unfit).

 

I think that changing the class of the road to service isn't the best way of
recording the data. These roads will quite often legally be an unclassified
highway and changing the class away from that just isn't accurate. In my
view it'd be better for the routers to start taking into account the
x=unsuitable style of tagging, though I realise that it's the usual
chicken and egg situation here when the use of such tags is currently very
sparse.

 

From: Aidan McGinley [mailto:aidmcgin+openstreet...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 10 December 2012 14:30
To: cotswolds mapper
Cc: talk-gb
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Unfit for motors - tagging for routing

 

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:motor_vehicle motor_vehicle=no
should suffice I would have thought?

On 10 December 2012 13:36, cotswolds mapper osmcotswo...@gmail.com
mailto:osmcotswo...@gmail.com  wrote:

There are lots of roads where I map which have Unfit for motors signs
(blue/white advisory) but are normal maintained roads in limited but regular
use. Typically they are narrowish, with lots of bends and often steep. In
general anything up to maybe the size of a skip lorry can get through
(though some are too narrow), but what makes them unfit for motors is very
long stretches without passing places,so if you meet something coming the
other way, one of you has a very long, difficult reverse.

 

They are currently tagged in OSM as minor roads, which of course means they
are eligible for routing. As an example, most (all?) routing services (not
just OSM-based, Google Maps has the same problem) will route Chalford Hill
to Stroud along Dark Lane, but Dark Lane has an Unfit for motors sign.
It's the shortest and most direct route from the A419 to most of Chalford
Hill, but very few locals use it. 

 

I'd like to tag these roads so that routing services will avoid them, but
can't find any direct way of doing this. I've seen elsewhere that one mapper
has tagged similar roads as Service roads. This has two advantages: routing
services will ignore them(?); and service roads render differently so anyone
using the map visually will be less likely to use these roads. It's pushing
the current definition of service road rather a lot, but if you consider a
service road to be a road that should only be used to access locations
connected to the service road, then it seems within the spirit of the
definition.

 

There's a specific issue with Chalford Hill at the moment. Road closures
(due to collapsed retaining walls) mean that the popular routes to the
valley (Old Neighbourhood and to a lesser extent Coppice Hill) are closed
and likely to remain so for over a month. My local source (a parish
councilor) says that most locals are using a long diversion and avoiding
Dark Lane. (Traffic on Dark Lane has increased, and there was recently a
fist fight when two cars met and neither driver would reverse. Locals want
to make it temporarily one way, which would massively increase its
usefulness, but there's no quick way of doing this.)

 

My two questions:

 

1) Should OSM data discourage use of routes that locals -  who are likely to
be better than outsiders at coping with narrow lanes - avoid as too
problematic;

 

2) Is tagging usable but 'Unfit for motors' roads as service roads an
acceptable way of doing this or is there a better method (that is recognised
by current renderers and routing engines).

 

As my opinion on (1) is yes, I've tagged Dark Lane and a couple of even more
difficult roads as service roads, at least for the duration of the road
closures, but will happily revert the tag if there's a better way.

 

Rob


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Re: [Talk-GB] Surrey social meetup?

2012-12-05 Thread Gregory

I'm only making a brief visit to the parents this winter. 24th-27th I'll be
near Kingston.

On 4 December 2012 19:09, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:

 Hi,

 Anyone from Surrey, Hampshire and vaguely nearby areas of southern England
 interested in a (joint OSM/FOSM) social meetup before Christmas? (suggested
 venue The Sovereigns, Woking)

 If so please add your name to the poll:

 http://www.doodle.com/cxih6ng2u7ws5768

 Nick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Sittingbourne

2012-11-30 Thread Gregory Williams

Chris,

 

I fully agree with these points. I've done a reasonable amount of mapping in
Sittingbourne, but my mapping tends to be centred around highways rather
than landuse or buildings. I have updated some similar tagging to what you
describe on schools in the past such that the buildings are tagged with
building=school and the extent of their grounds is tagged with
amenity=school, rather than the previous building=yes + amenity=school on
the same buildings.

 

I believe that lots of the buildings have been derived from automated
OS_OpenData_StreetView tracing by OSM user SemanticTourist. That probably
explains why they appear to cover multiple actual buildings in reality and
that they shape doesn't always correspond terribly well to the crisper
buildings you can see in the Bing imagery there. You may have noticed that
the building coverage actually spreads beyond just Sittingbourne to quite a
sizable chunk of Swale borough centred on the town.

 

Thanks for the work you've done here so far. As far as I'm concerned as a
local mapper feel free to update the problematic tagging as you've
described. I'll probably be able to help out eventually, but am currently
concentrating on getting widespread maxspeed coverage in the eastern half of
Kent and would prefer to get this essentially complete before starting
another large mapping challenge.

 

Gregory

 

From: Chris Baines [mailto:cbain...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 29 November 2012 20:59
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Sittingbourne

 

I was looking at the OSM Inspector, and happened to notice a large red bit
over Sittingbourne [1], on closer inspection, there seems to loads of good
data for Sittingbourne in OSM. However in my opinion, its not presented
(tagged, ...) in the best way. 

The three issues that I have seen are:
 - landuse=residential building=yes tags on the buildings
   - in most cases this should just be building=house
 - building footprints are too big and often cover many houses
   - just need spiting up, one house, one building way
 - addr data separate from the building outlines
   - merge data per [3]

So, if anyone is having problems finding places to map... Also, if anyone
disagrees with the above assessment, please shout. I have already done a bit
of improvement here [2].

1: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresses
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresseslon=0.73599lat=51.34400zoo
m=14overlays=buildings,buildings_with_addresses,postal_code,nodes_with_addr
esses_defined,nodes_with_addresses_interpolated,no_addr_street,street_not_fo
und,interpolation,interpolation_errors,connection_lines,nearest_points,neare
st_roads
lon=0.73599lat=51.34400zoom=14overlays=buildings,buildings_with_addresse
s,postal_code,nodes_with_addresses_defined,nodes_with_addresses_interpolated
,no_addr_street,street_not_found,interpolation,interpolation_errors,connecti
on_lines,nearest_points,nearest_roads
2: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.335704
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.335704lon=0.73662zoom=18layers=M
lon=0.73662zoom=18layers=M
3: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element

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Re: [Talk-GB] Telegraph releases Green Belt data

2012-11-29 Thread Gregory

On 28 November 2012 19:40, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

  Also although it’s called Green Belt it includes many areas that also
 have other designations, such as Country Parks, Golf Courses Recreation
 Grounds, etc etc etc.

 **

Would you map all the items and then tag their green_beltness (e.g.
leisure=golf_course + protected_area=green_belt), or would you just map an
area around all of them for protected_area=green_belt?

You can tell when it changes.
1) If people stop playing golf and 200 houses are built on the land, it's
probably lost it's green belt status.
2) If you read all the planning notices/applications in your area, and one
is to de-designate the green belt status.

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Re: [Talk-GB] SotM 2013

2012-10-11 Thread Gregory

What's the youngest mapper to go to SotM?
I did a bit of mass-messaging yesterday (under the guise of informing about
SotM, but also as an excuse to get chatting to mappers in the North East).
I didn't expect to get this rather cool reply.

I would be thrilled if the OSM conference came to the UK, and even better
if it came to Durham! I wouldn't have even thought of Durham, but its such
a nice place. At my age (15) its very difficult to travel, or even afford
to travel to some of the places it has been held...


Thanks to the people adding to the wiki page on SotM13/UK.
If you missed it, there is the addition of a Birmingham Bid forming and
they have a very strong local community and team for the conference.
I'd have liked to see the breath of the UK pulled together a bit more for a
conference, but I'm starting to think with such a strong effort from
Birmingham, we should focus on supporting that. Any thoughts?

Greg.


On 2 October 2012 12:54, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Ah, I forgot the link...
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2013/Bids/UK


 On 1 October 2012 15:09, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:


 I have started a wiki page. NOT as a bid yet, but as a place for us to
 document what comes out of mailing list discussion.

 Most importantly, it would be great to fill out the Team list.
 Remember there will be a variety of tasks that you don't need to be
 around for, like preparing the programme, website, and phoning/getting
 sponsors, etc.

 I might try and drum up some more support. One of the reasons for
 creating the wiki page is a central reference, as not everyone is on the
 mailing list and it can be hard to follow.

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 o...@livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

2012-10-09 Thread Gregory Williams

Richard,

 

It looks good and useful. On the OSM side of things it looks like you've
missed handling cycleway=opposite_lane, since a place where I had that in
the data wasn't being rendered. I have since changed this to be
cycleway:right=opposite_lane though to be more accurate.

 

Cheers,

 

Gregory

 

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 16:15
To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
Subject: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

 

As you may recall, DfT has made available a lot of cycle facility data. This
was processed and snapped to OSM geometry, and has been available for some
months for importing (subject to local review) using the Snapshot tool.
Further details here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project

 

I've reconciled the data for my area, but I found it a bit hard going.
Progress in other areas has been variable.

 

I'm particularly interested in cycle lane data, so I've produced a rendering
that compares DfT (Red) with OSM (Blue) data. Note that the DfT data is not
clear which side of the road cycle lanes are on. 

http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/

 

Quite a lot still missing.

 

So I've also generated tiles of the DfT cycle lane data (down to z17), for
use as a background in editors. In Potlatch, you can create a new background
by clicking on the Background drop-down, then Edit, then Add. The URL for
the tiles is:

http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png

 

If any of you care to add cycle lanes in your area, that'd be most welcome.
It will also be interesting to see whether providing a background proves to
be an effective way of getting data reviewed and into OSM. If it's
successful, a similar approach can be used for other parts of the data.

 

Feedback welcome.

 

Richard

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Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

2012-10-09 Thread Gregory Williams

I've seen contraflow cycle lanes on the left and the right side of the road
in the UK, so thought I ought to just clarify the tagging - better to be
explicit rather than ambiguous.

From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 17:35
To: Gregory Williams
Cc: 'Richard Mann'; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

Gregory,

I thought that cycleway=opposite_lane was the equivalent of
cycleway:right=lane.

And if it was a lane only on the left then it would be cycleway:left=lane.

Shaun

On 9 Oct 2012, at 17:28, Gregory Williams greg...@gregorywilliams.me.uk
wrote:

Richard,

It looks good and useful. On the OSM side of things it looks like you've
missed handling cycleway=opposite_lane, since a place where I had that in
the data wasn't being rendered. I have since changed this to be
cycleway:right=opposite_lane though to be more accurate.

Cheers,

Gregory

From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 October 2012 16:15
To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
Subject: [Talk-GB] DfT Cycling data - cycle lanes

As you may recall, DfT has made available a lot of cycle facility data. This
was processed and snapped to OSM geometry, and has been available for some
months for importing (subject to local review) using the Snapshot tool.
Further details here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project

I've reconciled the data for my area, but I found it a bit hard going.
Progress in other areas has been variable.

I'm particularly interested in cycle lane data, so I've produced a rendering
that compares DfT (Red) with OSM (Blue) data. Note that the DfT data is not
clear which side of the road cycle lanes are on.

 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/
http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/

Quite a lot still missing.

So I've also generated tiles of the DfT cycle lane data (down to z17), for
use as a background in editors. In Potlatch, you can create a new background
by clicking on the Background drop-down, then Edit, then Add. The URL for
the tiles is:

 http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png
http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/dftcyclelanes/tilesDfT/$z/$x/$y.png

If any of you care to add cycle lanes in your area, that'd be most welcome.
It will also be interesting to see whether providing a background proves to
be an effective way of getting data reviewed and into OSM. If it's
successful, a similar approach can be used for other parts of the data.

Feedback welcome.

Richard

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