Re: [Talk-us] Contacting local mappers or posting a note to "mappers in area". How to. Etiquette. Horseshoe Bend, ID,

[Bryce Nesbitt]

The Mozilla service is fine for general location requests, such as ensuring
you're searching the right area for Yelp!.

Actually mapping towers is much harder.  Many rural Verizon towers
broadcast correct latitude and longitude.  For the rest
there's no location data, or fake location data.  A single physical tower
may support 1-4 carriers, and then for each
carrier 3-36 distinct radio signals on various bands.  The OpenCell and
Mozilla databases, along with OpenSignal and Sensorly, are rife with bonus
towers that don't really exist, and they're often not even close to the
proper location.  Collected data may skew
outside the center of the tower's actual footprint, or the footprint may be
uneven due to terrain or antenna strength tuning by the carrier (many tower
coverage areas are asymmetric on purpose).

To point a cell repeater or booster correctly, you want the exact location
of the target tower. That's where https://www.cellmapper.net/ comes in. The
other tools don't cut it.



Now the question at hand was not about cell towers. but rather "is there a
way to contact or post a message seen by mappers active in a certain
region".  Is there anything out there?  Would the OSM project benefit from
having such a mechanism?




On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Tod Fitch  wrote:

> Mozilla Location services and open cell ID share data. You can down load
> the Mozilla database as a CSV file. That will have the lat/lon and
> identification of every cell tower they know about.
>
> You can also download it from open cell I'd but you need an api key for
> them.
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Contacting local mappers or posting a note to "mappers in area". How to. Etiquette. Horseshoe Bend, ID,

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I know about map notes.

Are there other ways I could post a bulletin message mappers in a given
region might see and react to?

Here it is not directly an OSM mapping task, so a map note seems
inappropriate.
But it's a task a local mapper would be perfect for, and it's no big deal.
Is there such a mechanism?

   -Bryce


NB: In particular I'm hoping to find someone willing to verify if tower SID
4881 of a certain Verizon cellular tower is coming from *Packer Joe
Overlook* near *Horseshoe Bend, ID,* or if that tower ID is coming from
above *Sweet, ID*.   It's a horribly specific request, but might be like
ten seconds for someone with
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cellmapper.net.cellmapper=en
(CellMapper ) or a similar tool.

Cell Mapper is a tool for locating cell phone towers for a variety of
purposes including tuning a cell repeater for weak signal areas.  OSM maps
are supported within the tool, but there's no data sharing with OSM that
I'm aware of.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Does your small city have a GIS system, or GIS specialist?  Best to
coordinate with what they're doing if possible.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Adam Old  wrote:

> Hello all, I am a fairly novice mapper, although I am learning quickly.
> This is my first post to talk-us, so let me know if this is the wrong place
> to ask these questions.
>
> I am currently sitting on a "Tree Board" in a small city in South Florida.
> One mandate of the board is to survey the existing tree canopy in an
> ongoing fashion and to provide recommendations for trimming, removal, or
> new plantings, to note diseases and damage, and to collect species
> information.
>
> I am a proponent of OpenStreetMap and crowdsourcing as much of the data
> collection as possible, as we are without much of a budget or staff. But I
> wonder whether this is an appropriate use for OSM, and if so, whether there
> are caveats or special things we should be thinking of. One of the other
> members of the board is an experienced GIS user, and he also likes the idea
> of using OSM.
>
> For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
> devices and an app like Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/
> id592990211?mt=8 or a paper survey form that we could then update OSM
> with. Hopefully this would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as
> mappers and/or users. We also were hoping to add some datapoints for the
> diameter_crown and height using LiDAR and aerial data. Any suggestions on
> this?
>
> There is some information that isn't standard for Tag:natural=tree that
> would be useful for us in this pursuit, for example whether the trees are
> damaged, need trimming, date of last trimming, etc. Maybe that is too
> specific to map and we shouldn't add that kind of data? If I were to add
> it, would I simply add my own tags? I would like to do this right.
>
> Also, is there a map view with diameter_crown displayed as the actual
> size?
>
> Also also, is there any thinking on differentiating between palm trees and
> other broadleaved trees? Seems like a worthwhile distinction, here in the
> tropics.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Maxweight in the USA

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I feel that all measurements recorded in OSM should include units.
And that measurements should be in local units.



A while back the Carter administration tried to force the metric system on
the USA,
which resulted in signs like:

elevation
4000 feet
1219.20 meters

Teaching people of course that the metric system is hard.
Of course in a real metric environment you'd have signs at:

1000 meters
1500 meters
2000 meters

or perhaps:

1000 feet
500 meters
2000 feet
1000 meters


All that faded, including the signs, and its really clear in the USA it's
feet for elevation and mph for speed limits.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Martijn's recent diary post "How can we double the number of active
> mappers in the US in a year?"
>

"Bigger tent" by "adding rooms".
Make it easier for specialist communities to find the map, and bring
mappers.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
> Paul and Kevin say I should fix them. Easily said, but there are are too many 
> and there are whole towns needing alignment, and endless roads connecting 
> them that don't remotely resemble reality. No data is better than wrong data.
>>
>>  Scrambling someone else's work for your own comfort is generally
> considered harmful.
>

Bad TIGER data: that of random correspondence to the air photos, should not
be confused with "someone else's work".
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 10:33 PM, Tom Bloom  wrote:

> I've been deleting them if wildly wrong, and would like to delete all I
> encounter. Any ideas?
>

When an area of tiger data has dozens of such driveways, which bear
basically random correspondence with air photos,
I'll delete them also.

They're not good data.  If someone wants to map driveways, fine, they can
start from scratch and be ahead.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette challenge - fix railway crossings

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I too tried this task, and it marked as complete tasks that I was not able
to finish.  The moment I
pressed the key to load in JOSM, the task was marked as done.  It never
loaded in JOSM either.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER

[Bryce Nesbitt]

 In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as
 highway=residential
 tiger:reviewed=no


Most of the well reviewed Tiger I see still has this tag.
People don't know to delete it.  The automatic delete on edit does not
apply to tiger:reviewed (it applies to a Tiger tag I wish was kept
instead!).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] README tag with editor support

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:

 The readme tag is more of a bandaid. A better way might be to capture the
 image date as a tag. The editor could then issue a warning message if the
 image date is older than the feature being modified.


The readme is more flexible.  Out of date imagery is an important cause of
an armchair mapper
undoing a local mapper's work, but not the only cause.

The image date will often be older than the feature, when using Bing
imagery.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] National Forest nature_reserve?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_areas_of_the_United_States


Keep in mind that BLM, National Forest and National Parks can all have
*wilderness* areas that are have
stricter limits than the wider reserve.

National lands are rarely monolithic: neither landcover nor conservation
status are likely to be constant
over the entire relation or polygon.


Resource extraction is a strong distinction, and it comes in shades of
gray.  Some areas are given over
almost completely to extraction, others are reserved primarily for natural
processes.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Truck stop gas stations as caravan_site

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:34 AM, Jack Burke burke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi folks,

 I was wondering if it is appropriate to tag truck stops with
 tourism=caravan_site. I've noticed a lot of them tagged this way,
 presumably because many of the truck stop chains allow overnight parking of
 RVs, some have dump stations, etc.

 The wiki on caravan_site seems to imply a more specialized place like a
 real RV campsite, which wouldn't include a truck stop.



The original intent of  caravan_site seems to be exactly for that: parking
lots for 1 or 2 night stays of caravans.
If the place was actually nice enough to stay for days, it would be a
camp_site.

Either way the truck stop might have amenities of sanitary_dump_station
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Toilet_Holding_Tank_Disposal,
water_point, and perhaps amenity=toilets for humans.
If it has a sanitary dump station, but you don't know the exact location,
tag sanitary_dump_station=yes.
Tag sanitary_dump_station=no is important information here also.


In Europe there are hundreds of gravel parking lots marked caravan_site:
the sites consist sorely of a parking and (perhaps) water and toilet
facilities.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Strange changeset found

[Bryce Nesbitt]

The mapper in question is still active, with reasonable edits.
So it looks like a mistake, or a newbie mistake.
Revert anyway.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Peculiar values for natural key in California

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:17 AM, Jerry Clough - OSM sk53_...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

 I have just been looking through the long tail of natural values and
 natural=K2156 stuck out like a sore thumb. These seem all to be nodes
 imported around 2009 roughly around Salinas :
 http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9hM.


That's a Tiger feature class of Government Center.
http://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/data/tiger/tgrshp2009/TGRSHP09AF.pdf
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.com/search?q=K2165#values

It's a bad import, but a small one.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] More bicycle tool stands

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I've uploaded more bicycle tool stands under:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair

Each of these comes from a vendor dataset, collected via cell phone gps.
A note has been added asking local mappers to help position the pins
exactly.

Hundreds of these have been field checked at this point: most were fine.
Two so far were not found on the ground and deemed false contributions, and
removed.

---

This feature is not yet rendered.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge: Website Mismatch: Give it a try

[Bryce Nesbitt]

This is a website keyword matcher.

For example a website associated with name=Cafe Fanny/phone=555-1212
would be expected to have at least the words Cafe, Fanny, or a matching
phone number.

The match is fuzzy. Any website with no match is flagged for human review.
These are often:

   - Spam websites.
   - Hijacked domains.
   - Business that have changed focus.
   - Out of business businesses.
   - Website has moved.

There are false positives also:

   - Redirects with error codes in the 300 range.
   - Flash based websites with no text whatsoever.
   - Chain stores and schools that frequently reorganize their pages.
   - Small regional chains where the store page is either non-existent, or
   a URL that's sure to chance in the future.  The root URL is better, but
   won't match the name on the node.

If you work on the challenge you'll appreciated crafting a future proof
URL.
The best URL for osm is the simplest one if possible (no
http://example.org/a/b/q?q=50505 ).

The challenge shows how quickly restaurants in particular come and go.



-
The challenge works regionally so you don't have to save after every node.
Right now it's set for the Northwest USA:

http://maproulette.org/#t=webtegrity/www-osmid-1723639413
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge: Website Mismatch: Give it a try

[Bryce Nesbitt]

This is a website keyword matcher.

For example a website associated with name=Cafe Fanny/phone=555-1212
would be expected to have at least the words Cafe, Fanny, or a matching
phone number.

The match is fuzzy. Any website with no match is flagged for human review.
These are often:

   - Spam websites.
   - Hijacked domains.
   - Business that have changed focus.
   - Out of business businesses.
   - Website has moved.

There are false positives also:

   - Redirects with error codes in the 300 range.
   - Flash based websites with no text whatsoever.
   - Chain stores and schools that frequently reorganize their pages.
   - Small regional chains where the store page is either non-existent, or
   a URL that's sure to change in the future.

If you work on the challenge you'll appreciate well crafted and future
proof URLs.
The challenge shows how quickly restaurants in particular come and go.


-
The challenge works regionally so you don't have to save after every node.
Right now it's set for the Northwest USA:

http://maproulette.org/#t=webtegrity/
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] USA Rail: Amtrak Northeast Regional to Norfolk?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

My experience with Amtrak is they don't always know.
I remember a conductor having a series of phone calls with dispatch about
routing,
and seeing him relay new routes up to the engineer.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] perceptions of OHM and other similar projects

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
 The problem, as I see it, is that railroads are a contiguous
 whole. Yet some people seem to think that a railroad should be shopped
 up along its length, with part of it appearing in OSM (where you can
 see it on the ground), and part of it appearing in OHM (where it has
 been bulldozed away)

 Relations are completely broken.

+10 on all this.

It seems the deletion argument is related to clutter.  I prefer to
see the entire railroad
in context.



 Michael DuPont wrote
I still dont understand why we dont support multiple layers. It would seem to 
be the most logical thing to do and the api could support that so simple 
clients could download a different layers each time.

There are editor solutions to this, short of layers.

Nothing says an editor can't hide all boundary relations or abandoned
railways, in order to ease editing.
The razed sections of the abandoned railway need not confuse anybody.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org
wrote:

 On Monday, April 13, 2015 05:01:39 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
  You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has
  only a low chance of getting a response.

 what department do you suggest I contact?


Call up the main number, ask to speak with the legal department.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org
wrote:

 I'll see those in the changesets I produce.


No, as you've described your process, you won't see those OSM mapper
changes at all, because
they won't show up in your overpass query.


You're jumping into an area with some history in OSM, but not seeming to
listen or look for that history.
Synchronizing data sets can be done safely, but you have to consider the
realities of an open source
data set anyone can edit.  You're not the first to go down this road!
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org
wrote:


 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Keith Winkler keith.wink...@redshiftsoft.com
 To: Charles Samuels char...@derkarl.org
 Cc:
 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:00:52 -0500
 Subject: Re: Importing into OpenStreetMap
 Greetings Charles.

 Sure, no problem.

 I indeed have no objections to the to geodata derived in part from
 http://supercharge.info/service/supercharge/allSites being incorporated
 into the OpenStreetMap project geodata database and released under a free
 and open
 license.

 It is ok to make public my statement to this affect.


 Cheers,
 Keith
 Creator/Owner/Maintainer of superchare.info


Charles,

To determine if something is licence compatible,  you can't just go one
level deep.
Where did supercharge.info get it's data? Did everyone who contributed
do so under a compatible licence?  Was anything imported?

--

You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has
only a low chance of getting a response.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] North Carolina Outer Banks

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Eric Christensen e...@christensenplace.us
wrote:

 I suspect the requester is looking specifically for something called Outer
 Banks on the map.  As someone who grew up down in that area I can tell you
 that there is no such place.  The Outer Banks, or OBX, is largely a
 marketing
 term and refers to much of the peninsula, Hatteras Island, and Ocracoke
 Island
 but isn't a town or county.


So... how would one tag a marketing name for a region?  There are lots.
I'm headed up
to a place called Summit Valley... but go ahead and try to find it on a
map.

A marketing name is verifiable and useful in way-finding, but not findable
on the ground.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I feel the OSM project is missing a major opportunity to find mappers, by
focusing on finding mappers.
Instead find enthusiasts for .  It
could be RV toilets, street art,
abandoned railways (ahem), free book stands, fairy houses, whatever.

OSM is far behind Google in transportation routing via any mode (from
walking to airline/train travel) that that won't work right now.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 5:23 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 But if you can't discover them while on the ground, eg if there's been
 a building placed over it, if the area has been paved over, or is now
 used as a field, then I see two problems:

 1. It's not possible to validate
 2.The railroad is no longer present, by definition

Such railroads are definitely possible to locate, precisely because of
their linear nature.
Sometimes the signs are the curve of a wall, or a strange row of trees.
Sometimes the signs are subtle, such as a series of gas pipeline markers.
But they can be validated.

Disused railroads are different than playgrounds or demolished buildings.
The boundary between inactive and active is somewhat subtle: some lines
linger on with one train per year for decades.
The boundary between abandoned and razed is subtle: it often happens in
bits and chunks.



But the linear nature of a railroad is not subtle.

To understand what remains, you want to understand the linear nature:
railroads (almost always) connect to other railroads. * Making sense of a
remaining railroad feature (e.g. a tunnel) requires understanding where the
tracks went.* The process of trail building, for example, is reclaiming all
of those legal right of ways, or negotiating alternative routes.

I oppose deletion of a railroad until all of it is gone.  As long as bits
remain, the connecting context is important.  It's minimally verifiable as
well, as a boots on the ground mapper can visit the visible parts, and
infer the connections.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am much more worried about imports for a completely different reason,
 and that is data maintenance
 If the external data were not imported, but kept in a separate
 external-data layer, the situation could be different, because you would
 have the option to refresh the external data form time to time. But this is
 not the data model of OSM.


*Not necessarily true*:
I run several ongoing synchronization scripts.  These keep OSM in sync with
a commercial dataset.  The longest running is for car sharing: data from
the reservation system is compared to OSM. OSM mapper additions are
respected.  But if the car is removed by the operator, it's deleted from
OSM.

And this is a two way ongoing import:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair
Improvements on either side flow to the other (except in the UK, due to
community preferences regarding imports).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:
On the ground, meanwhile,
 you'd tend to find no trespassing signs on railbanked ROWs, no?

In general, no.

Trespassing signs tend to appear on encroachments (where neighbours
are using the railroad right of way without formal permission).  But
the corridors themselves tend to be completely unmaintained.  The
railroad companies are profit driven, and don't spend time on
corridors of no current utility.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 On 03/31/2015 08:04 AM, Natfoot wrote:
 There is so many situations where to his naked eye on the ground he may
 not be able to see it.  To a person like myself I can still find the
 signs on the earth of where the railroad once was.

 Then map the signs that *are*, but not the railroad which - as you
 correctly say - once *was*.
 Bye
 Frederik

For background, in the USA there is an intermediate step to
abandonment.  A corridor can be railbanked,
meaning the easements don't expire.  It's not an active railway, but
it can be returned to rail service
via an administrative procedure.  And in fact, that's happened.
Usually however these become trails,
a process that can take decades.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 2:27 AM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:

 I'd imagine that most railbanked rights of way would be mapped with
 railway=disused (inactive tracks, possibly overgrown) or railway=abandoned
 (no tracks but an embankment, greenway, or clearing still present), as
 opposed to something like railway=razed. [1] The tags' definitions
 acknowledge physical characteristics rather than ownership.


Depending on the climate, a corridor can become all but invisible on an air
photo long before even the tracks are removed.
There is no firm line between OSM's definition of physical characteristics
on the ground.

I've followed hundreds of miles of such corridors, and only those still
active enough to be candidates for trail development,
yet faced severe challenges staying on track as it were.  These railbanked
corridors are in a legal sense still active: they're still
registered with the Surface Transportation Board, yet they can take a real
eye and skill to actually find.

Armchair deleting them because you can't find them on an air photo seems to
go too far.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tesla Supercharger import

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org
wrote:


 I am not subscribed to imports, please CC me directly.


To engage in the process fully, you'll need to subscribe.



 I have not yet asked Tesla Motors for their permission, I have a hard time
 believing it'd be refused.


Let us know when that process is complete.


My software is capable of recurring up-to-datenings based on a new tag:
 tesla:ref


Experience among the other up-to-datenings used with OSM is that a single
conflation key is not enough.
You'll need a proximity search as well: fortunately easy in your case as
these stations almost by definition are
not close to each other.

You'll also want to read up on import procedure for OSM.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote:

 I happened to be near one of these today, and I had to move it about 8
 meters.  REVERT!  (not really, just kidding)
 ...
   My only comment about this import would be that I don't think that it is
 useful to accompany an import with mass notes or FIXMEs.   If someone
 notices that the position is off, they'll correct it or leave a note. In
 this case it wasn't too serious because the number of data points is low,
 but would be more of a problem with a larger dataset.


From what I've seen the notes have worked really well: better than I could
have hoped.

Every few days someone finds one of those notes, hunts down the tool stand,
and closes the note.  A number of note closers have been beginning
mappers as well: perhaps these notes represent a mapping task that's both
in their area and accessible at their level of mapping comfort.
If the notes have brought a modest number of mappers out of the glow of
their computer screens, and out into the community, that's great.

--
Most of the nodes were pretty close: but the occasional one has moved
pretty far (at least 40 meters).

Every station searched for on the ground has been found, with one
exception.  That station was subsequently deleted from both OSM and the
vendor database at Dero corporation.  The on the ground mapper took
multiple visits to the site, after the company provided more details.  But
it's just not there.


--
Perhaps the notes that remain after a set period (maybe a year) should be
bulk deleted.
The notes in the USA are getting resolved at a steady pace.  The notes in
the UK (which were imported without nodes) have not attracted much interest.

I am concerned that some mappers will fix a tool stand location, but never
notice the corresponding note.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Elevation in local units

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Lars Ahlzen l...@ahlzen.com wrote:

 By the way, I thought that the wiki page for ele *used* to say that other
 units than m were acceptable (if explicitly specified) but I may be
 confusing it with something else, like width?

FYI: There's a wiki template that could be extended to give consistency to
unit rules, wiki wide.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Boundaries and verifiability (was Re: Retagging hamlets in the US)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:00 AM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:

 I've taken quite a few imported municipal boundaries, lined them up with
 road easements or hedges between farms _when that is obviously the intent_,
 and deleted extra nodes. These borders become far more accurate and precise
 in OSM than in commercial maps, which regurgitate TIGER boundaries verbatim.

 The most authoritative source for most U.S. land borders, going all the
 way down to the parcel level, is a legal prose definition in conjunction
 with any number of monuments on the ground.


Ah, another sticky wicket.

There are many defacto boundaries created by roads, hedges, powerlines,
ridges or bodies of water.

I argue the most appropriate boundary in OSM is indeed the defacto
boundary.  If people are using, paving, weeding
and farming the boundary, that's the one we can map.

The legal boundary is not something OSM can adjudicate.  Finding that
boundary is a complex process involving survey points, land descriptions,
and often handwritten records stored in dark basements.  It also hardy ever
matters, at least to a mapper or map reader.



Note that in the USA boundaries are determined by reference to written
deeds, and subject to challenge in court.  Various non-registered rights,
including right of passage, may exist.  It's a huge mess.

In Australia, as I understand, land ownership is a matter of public record,
and all ownership changes must be registered. The government records are,
by definition, correct.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Elevation in local units

[Bryce Nesbitt]

   - I feel that osm convention should encourage all mappers to specify
   units (e.g. 22 m).
   - That whitespace should be allowed (e.g. 22m, 22 m, or even 22 meters).
   - And that local units should be encouraged (e.g. 22 feet, or 22' 0).

The wiki templates, if spruced up, could define the rules uniformly for all
keys that take a measurement unit
(e.g. height, width, ele, max_height, etc).
--
Parsers are cheap.  Any parser worth using can convert 22m, 22 m, 22 feet
or a variety of reasonable variants.
Humans are messy.  Forcing them into boxes generally goes badly.

---
Specific to the USA:
If I'm mapping a 6000 foot sign I sure don't want to enter 1828.8m or
worse yet 1828.8.

The same goes for anything that takes a unit.  maxspeed=88mph is better
than maxspeed=88.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 2015-03-22 4:00 GMT+01:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us:

 At its most basic, OSM is a geospatial database. We have countries,
 states, counties, and cities. Why not neighborhoods. OSM tells where a
 feature is located. Points can only tell us how close a feature is to a
 node. Using nodes to represent neighborhoods doesn't allow with any
 certainty where a feature is located while a polygon can.


Points are too general.
Polygons are too specific.

Jeeze.  One could invent something in between: an approximate radius point
or a fuzzy polygon.



Please don't assume because your particular neighborhood has (insert one:
fuzzy boundaries, exact legal boundaries,
well understood boundaries, an edit war about the boundary, a name used
only for a railroad outhouse building in 1850)
that there is only One True Solution.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Boundaries and verifiability (was Re: Retagging hamlets in the US)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

The nice thing about mapping a neighborhood name as a point feature is:

a) It helps people locate the neighborhood
b) it completely sidesteps the question of the exact, possibly fuzzy,
boundaries.

For 10% of the hassle you map 90% of the benefit.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Boundaries and verifiability (was Re: Retagging hamlets in the US)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:

 Except when it reports you are in a different neighborhood than you
 actually are.


A point feature does not imply a radius.

A governmental defined neighborhood boundary is totally mappable at the
right admin level, and you would
not need point features in such a case.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 9:23 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now OSM is the only map where you cannot locate Bender's Corner.  It looks
 like it might be a nice area.

 http://berkeley-heights-real-estate.com/home-sales-berkeley-heights-nj-new-jersey/
 110 Diamond Hill Rd Benders Corner $299,000 $295,000 63 01/02/2013


 http://www.tripmondo.com/united-states/new-jersey/benders-corner/attractions-in-benders-corner/
 http://www.city-data.com/nbmaps/neigh-Berkeley-Heights-New-Jersey.html

 http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/benders-corner-nj/07974/weather-forecast/2174854

 http://www.weichert.com/search/realestate/SearchResults.aspx?hood=16925view=map


Yeah, but ALL of those are sploggy results, created to attract search
engines, using the same original dataset.
It's all mindless spam created from GNIS data.  Had the GNIS accepted
Happy Puppy Land, that would appear
the same way.

  Yes!  Bender's Corner is worth a name search to someone.

I don't think a human would have cared enough to add Bender's Corner.  It's
only the GNIS import that brought it to OSM.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Would you put bender's corner on a map today?

If the barrier to cleaning is too great, not enough cleaning will happen.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging (in general)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

 My initial reaction to any automated edit is to break out in a rash.


 I don't have the same reaction.  A long time ago I added building=entrance
 to buildings.  That tag was deprecated in favor of entrance=* at some point.
 A mapper comes along and changes building=entrance to entrance=main with a
 script.  I was about to send the mapper a thank you because he saved me a
 bunch of time, when his work was backed out.  So there I am left making the
 same changes manually that the script had already made.  My manual edits
 added no additional value to what the script had already accomplished other
 than wasting my time.  I could have worked on other more important issues.

+1 on this.
I see a strong benefit to careful mechanical tag gardening.

The argument gets hauled out that this will impact data consumers.  That's
short sighted.  Over longer periods of time data consumers benefit
from consistent
tagging.

Instead we could create a low volume
data-evolution-ale...@openstreetmap.org mailing
list, where tag changes could be announced in advance.  Data consumers could
do what they are doing now, or register for alerts regarding the tags
they care about.

building=entrance to entrance=main is  particularly easy case because
there is no semantic change.
type and wood to leaf_type and leaf_cycle is harder, because of a
(probably beneficial) semantic change.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

  I don't see a problem with access=private as this could be handy for
 micromapping a property.  access=public should probably be access=yes.


The tagging proposal to date imagined only the shared dump stations of
the type that would (in years past) have appeared on AAA maps.
If it's to be used for backyard or per-site hookups, the proposal needs
adjustment.

---

Mapping a hookup in someone's backyard offers* the same pitfalls as mapping
their home toilet and recycling bin.*
The next level of private is guests only, which I called destination.

*The cases seem to be:*
per-site hookup, available only to registered guests at the particular site
shared dump station, available only to guests of the destination
shared dump station, available for drive up
shared dump station, free

*Tagged as:*
Way/node or
As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel
station), without a specific position.
As a tagged property of a numbered camp slot (e.g. sites 1-22 offer
per-site hookups).


A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups to
be rendered at the same level as the central dump station.
Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are
even mapped at all.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com
 wrote:

 A caravan site might have 200 private hookups. We don't want the hookups
 to be rendered at the same level as the central dump station.
 Backyard dump stations should render even less prominently, if they are
 even mapped at all.


 Let's not forget that tagging isn't the renderer.  If a renderer can't dim
 or hide access=private on such a POI when it's not desirable to display a
 private sanidump, it's the renderer, not the tagging, that's broken.


Let's not forget that humans are mappers.  The shared sanidump at the local
caravan site might well get tagged access=private.
Or maybe access=private will be used for the per site hookups.


*The cases seem to be:*
private backyard dump stations.
per-site hookup, available only to registered residents (at a long term
residential trailer park or dock).
per-site hookup, available only to registered guests at a leisure
destination
shared dump station, available only to guests of the destination
shared dump station, available for drive up/boat up use.
shared dump station, free.

*Tagged on:*
Way/node
As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel
station), without a specific position.
As a tagged property of a numbered slot (e.g. sites 1-22 offer per-site
hookups).



Each of those cases needs clear tags if we hope mappers to use them
consistently.  Your suggestions?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:04 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 As a tagged property of a mapped place (e.g. campground, store, fuel
 station), without a specific position.


 Probably not as this is almost certainly too vague.


There are already hundreds of those, mostly in New Zealand, that seem to
work fine.   When looking at a list of
campgrounds, it's helpful to know which ones have a sanitary dump station,
even if those campgrounds are only
mapped as nodes.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Bryan Housel br...@7thposition.com wrote:

 Brand new anonymous users come to the map every day and are confused by
 what these hamlets are.
 proof: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/163246
 I kind of doubt this person is going to stick around and improve the map.
 To them, it just looks like vandalism.
 (IMO the “Bender’s Corner” hamlet should probably just be deleted
 outright.  I live near it and there really is no such thing.)


Illustrating: it's easy to add junk to OSM, it takes a lot of courage to
remove junk.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

 My initial reaction to any automated edit is to break out in a rash.
 Can we use that image to promote mapping best practices?  :-)

 Goal: A new local mapper in each BadHamlet


Here's what I did with bike repair stations:

1) Import the data *
2) Import a note at the same spot saying this needs local input to finish
the mapping.

So the map got the basic data right away, plus a start on the processes of
engaging a local mapper to finalize things.
At the scale I used it for, it worked.  Real local mappers found the things
on the ground and finished the job.

---
With hamlets, the automated edit is a form of improvement.  Add local input
and you've got a great map.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:07 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com
wrote:

   Are there any rendering packages that can be set to render private
 objects for only a preset list of operator tag values? So, if an
 association of recreational vehicle owners has waste disposal stations only
 for registered users, a map generated by that association could show dump
 stations open to the general public, plus dump stations open to their
 members, while not showing dump stations open only to members of competing
 organizations?

Yes, that can be be done in almost any of the OSM rendering sytems.


Note the tagging proposal on the table uses network= for regional
networks of dump stations.

A good RV dump station map would use colors or some such:
  Free == Green
  Paid, drive up == Blue
  Plan ahead (join the network first) == Purple
  Destination only == Gold
  Backyard Dump Stations == Black

A given recreational vehicle owners association could filter the map and
eliminate non-matching network locations.

See also:
http://www.sanidumps.com/maps/index.php?id=18
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 I'm in favor of a bulk edit for US hamlets within city boundaries to be
 retagged as place=neighbourhood


I generally agree with this, as a first step.
Especially if there's a followup challenge of some sort to improve the
tagging with local knowledge.

Many many of the hamlets in the USA data are for towns that no longer
exist.  Some of those names
linger on as informal neighborhood names, but many don't.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Also present near the USA mexican border are immigration check stations,
where
border patrol agents profile passengers and drivers based on race, and may
ask for identification.
In some places these are mobile stations, others have mappable fixed
infrastructure.

Typically all vehicles must stop.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 Problem is, as we've observed on what's starting to feel like a weekly
 basis here, there are no rational national assumptions, when in doubt, tag
 it anyway.


I think we've also observed that more people map than fix: and

*any such rules embedded in the tagging will quickly become *
*inconsistent to the point of useless.*


 Everywhere else I've been, it either reverts to a highway parking area
 (midwest) or a public access scale (northwest) when trucks aren't required
 to stop, and when trucks are required to stop, access is still generally
 granted to the public to use the amenities available


There are three access cases for non-hgv's:  prohibited by sign, unstated
probably permissive, permitted by sign.  All three exist.
The common unstaffed weigh station in the American west has everything
locked up, it's either a rest area or the rest area is separate.
It's pretty useless to stop.

If it's a permissive rest area,* I argue it should be mapped as a rest
area.*
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

While one could get into access tags for weigh stations, it seems like it
would create as many problems as it solves.

--

A weigh station in the USA is a mandatory stop for heavy goods vehicles,
and prohibited entry for everyone else.
Heavy goods vehicles with special equipment can bypass the station, if
given a bypass signal.
Stations are often staffed only during limited hours (many stations are
physically present, but open only sporadically).

A station, if stopping is required, will add travel time to a hgv.



I think you tag it as is is, and let routing software determine the
applicable national laws for who it stops.  The tagging should
relate to a given way, perhaps with addr:street, or a more fiddly
relation.

--
A related concept is a hunter check station, and a boat check station
(checking hunting permits and checking for invasive weeds respectively).
California USA has agricultural check stations, mandatory for all vehicles,
looking for invasive pests.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

To be clear, I encourage people to get involved in all open proposals, not
just the one:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_features_%22Voting%22
The voting process helps to refine tagging proposals: they often get better
during the process.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Wählen / Voting - Sanitary Dump Station

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Please consider participating in the wiki voting for:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sanitary_Dump_Station
These sites have various names including dump station, dump point, caravan
dump station, sanitary station, Elsan disposal point (UK), pumpout, and
chemical dump point (CDP).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:34 PM, an UK mapper wrote wrote:
 Way back when, Bryce wrote:
  The locations need local mapping to get the location perfect.

 Are you intending to feed these local changes back to the data source?
 Will the import involve deleting any repair stations in OSM not in the data 
 source - this doesn't seem like a good idea.

A qualified yes to that.

This import uses a script meant for synchronizing a commercial data
set (like a list of ATM's, radar stations, or chain stores)
to OSM.  It prepares a changelist file describing any differences for
human review.

If an item drops out of the company's dataset, the OSM mapper sees
that closure.  Here if Dero racks removes a location it's because the
property owner, their client, told them the site was removed on the
ground.  The human running the script can decide how to react  (e.g.
mirror the deletion in OSM, take no action, move the item to Open
Historical Map, or tag disused:, or fly to the location and check).

In the ATM or radar station case: it's the same thing.  For well run
corporate data sets the list of open stores, ATMs, or whatever is
quite good.  If an item drops out of that data it's because the
location has closed.  But, the human can review it, checking yelp or
seeking other secondary sources or local sources for information.

For this bike tool data set, OSM changes in the USA have already been
sent back to the corporate source:  mostly duplicate data points and
more
precise positioning.  In general at the next sync this causes no
trouble, the fuzzy match is simply less fuzzy, and no action is taken.
Similarly if an item is deleted from the OSM set, a flag will be
raised.  Here the Dero company would be notified.  This has not
happened yet.

The script was built for a one way synchronization, but seems to work
reasonably well for this two way sync.

---
The main challenge is that detecting duplicates is hard, because some
proper stations are literally 60 or so meters apart,
and some positioning errors are of the same magnitude.  Thus the local
mapper who can visit the site and work it all out.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:


 2) Given the audience at DC, I'd say you'll need a beginners track.
 So many people I met there had no understanding of how to do a foot
 survey, and no understanding of why that is the most valuable and
 interesting data in the OpenStreetMap database.  So, yeah.  Some
 really fundamental basics. Why and how to survey.


And a real hands on session...  flashmob micromap something nearby.
Flashmob audit some other area nearby for errors/updates.
Send people on a race with different mobile tools performing similar
mapping tasks.

Step away from the air photo and map the world from the ground!
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Mechanically Cleaning Up FIXME Tags

[Bryce Nesbitt]

To make this simpler, for now I propose to mechanically delete the tags:

fixme=stream␣attibutes␣missing
stream=fixme

From several stream imports in the USA.   Does anyone have comment or
considerations for that proposal (beyond the usual mechanical edit policy)?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Why does the USA currently lag in OSM map quality?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Here's an example of a specific feature type bringing a new mapper to OSM:
https://bicycletrax.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/campuses-with-the-most-bike-repair-stations/


 A modicum of guerrilla mapping can have a huge effect. A few athletic
 fields and building outlines can quickly snowball into almost every
building
 and driveway in town. [2]

 Try this:
 In the course of your everyday life, when you describe a meeting place to
 someone via email, send them a link the OSM node.
 Hey Fred,
 Lets meet at the Courthouse (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/35176305
 )
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

1) Import complete for USA Washington, Oregon, Idaho

2) I've noted a somewhat unfortunate trend: hand mappers have added
several bicycle shops with the tag
bicycle_repair_station and no other tags.  The new tag was intended
for 27/4 unattended stations, shops
have existing tagging.


On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 I'm ready to start this import: the input to date has been carefully
 considered and adjustments made.

 I'm intending to add notes for locations where the press releases are
 insufficiently specific to correctly position the node

 I'm aware of one private station, which I will map with access=private.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I'm ready to start this import: the input to date has been carefully
considered and adjustments made.

I'm intending to add notes for locations where the press releases are
insufficiently specific to correctly position the node.
Often, the press releases are specific enough, but not always.  The notes
interface seems like the most practical method of attracting
a very local mapper to go and kick the node into the exact right spot.

I'm aware of one private station, which I will map with access=private.  I
considered leaving it out, but suspect if I do
it will cause trouble in the future.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Why does the USA currently lag in OSM map quality?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Here are two examples of mapping communities NOT in OSM:

http://labyrinthlocator.com/
http://www.sanidumps.com/



To help find USA http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/148838 mappers:
I've resolved to start including links to OSM in any location related email
I send :-).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Why does the USA currently lag in OSM map quality?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

 A modicum of guerrilla mapping can have a huge effect. A few athletic
 fields and building outlines can quickly snowball into almost every
 building and driveway in town. [2]


Try this:

In the course of your everyday life, when you describe a meeting place to
someone via email, send them a link the OSM node.

Hey Fred,
Lets meet at the Courthouse (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/35176305
).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Why does the USA currently lag in OSM map quality?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:


 Indeed, Mapillary is great. I wonder if there's room to get
 GoPro+Mapillary to donate a few units to put together a rig that we could
 ship around to people in the US that could collect data for the US
 community...


Mapilariy is fun... but collecting more data is not necessarily the avenue
to a better map.

Instead, consider how many people use the map.
Consider how many people garden a particular area of the map.
Consider how many people enthusiastically map a given feature (e.g. RV Dump
Stations, Dog Parks, Smoking Zones, Bike Repair Stations, Bear Boxes).

A pile of automatically imported or collected data is really not all that
interesting or complete.
I think in the USA the way forward involves finding user communities not
served by other maps (e.g. Bear Boxes, above).
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
  On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   Thanks for sharing your mapping project.
   Regards,
   Greg
 
  Greg;
  There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe campus.
  Could you ground truth those?

 I'll find an excuse to get out that way over the weekend.   One is way out 
 there at the Polytechnic campus.

I uploaded the Arizona State University points to get you hunting :-).

Note that at the Tempe campus, my data shows four stations, the map shows three:
http://www.asu.edu/parking/pdf/bike-map.pdf
I added a matching map note at:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/315164

The odd thing about mapping bike repair stations is that a huge
fraction of them are findable via google in the form of press
releases(!).  Often there's no map, just a list of places in the text
of the press release, and perhaps the name of the Boy Scout who
organized the project ;-).

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Bryce Nesbitt]

How about this:  particularly in the case of two businesses within one
building polygon,
create non-building area's for the business tags.  Then you get the sense
of scale of the business,
and preserve the free tagging of the building polygon.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for sharing your mapping project.
 Regards,
 Greg


Greg;
There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe campus.
Could you ground truth those?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I'd like to start with California and Arizona (70 nodes),
and add notes where on-site survey is needed to exactly align to the OSM
base layer.

What's different about this import is that armchair mappers can get only so
far, verifying press releases and such.  The features are too small to spot
even on the best available air photos (e.g. better than the Bing ones).
Even the street cameras are not generally enough: this really takes in
person spotting.

Any more comment / objection?



On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The
  database is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data
 quality is spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with
 the pins generally in the right area.   The stations are too small to
 find on an air photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be
 found with a search engine.

 The vendor uses OSM as a base map:
 http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
 The discussion is on the imports list.
 The data is at:
 http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
 Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations.


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Bryce Nesbitt]

 This seems to be tagging for the renderer which is not a good idea.  If
 the only thing occupying the building is a single POI, then put the POI
 tags on the closed Way for the building outline.  By adding a new object
 (Node) for the POI, you are also going against the One feature, one OSM
 element idea.  There are renderers in existence that will display both the
 house number and the name of a restaurant with food icon.



  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element

  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice


There are two features here:  the building, and the business.
The building and business may well have different owners.
In some cases a business will sell it's building but lease back the space.

The address is generally an attribute of the building and does not change
as tenants come and go.
The business inherits the address for the time they are in the building.
They may have a website= that keeps working even if they move.

---

Thus one could argue that the one feature one osm element rule would want:
* Attach an address to the building outline.  Tag the owner if that is
known (e.g. the leasing company).
* Add POI nodes for one or more businesses inside that building.  These may
have website/phone tags.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Dero does not happen to have a ref or primary key for their data.  Some
other vendor or site may have an actual value here Much as emergency
phones or some institutional assets.

How accurate was the pin?  Good enough to find the station? Are there more
nearby?

The charging tag needs work: what style of charger? Is the charging free? I
left that in from others work but feel it should be a separate node.

On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh!  How soon I forget:
 key key=ref value=none /  change to
 key key=ref value=lt;nonegt; / and that parses OK.

 Regards,
 Greg


 On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com
 javascript:; wrote:
  On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com
 javascript:; wrote:
  To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The
 database
  is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality
 is
  spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with the
 pins
  generally in the right area.   The stations are too small to find on an
 air
  photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a
  search engine.
 
  The vendor uses OSM as a base map:
  http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
  The discussion is on the imports list.
  The data is at:
  http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
  Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations.
 
  I've been meaning to go see one of these since you introduced the
  topic back in January.  Curiosity fosters most of my mapping. I was in
  the area and surveyed the actual location.  In my case the bicycle
  repair station was on the south side of the Cronkite building but on
  the north side of the parking garage.  That makes sense because it was
  by the bike lockers.  I have a bunch of pictures that I can include on
  your import page or add some US flair to the bicycle_repair_station
  tag page for the main article if you would like.  Please let me know.
 
  Here's some questions and notes:
 
  I don't see the need to limit the tool list to the one listed in the
  bicycle_repair_station wiki page. I added service:bicycle:screwdriver
  to the POI that I added.  That would be handy to know for other people
  than just bicycle people.  I did not look at all the other available
  tools on the stand.
 
  In a note tag I added a reference to your import page.  That would be
  useful for other mappers to know why and how.
 
  I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page.  There's a
  few electric bicycle shops around downtown.
 
  I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map.
 
  I added source_alt = survey.  I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero
  is part of you conflation process.  If so, then you might want to make
  that clear on you import page
  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair
 
  I dutifully added ref=none but did not understand the point.  Will
  this be part of the conflation magic?  If so, then you might want to
  make that clear on you import page.
 
  There is a problem with ref=none if you are going to create a one
  touch preset.  Please see the preset below.  I had to change the
  preset to key key=ref value=.none. /.  The none generates
  this error during Josm startup,  Error parsing ...az_preset.xml: The
  value of attribute value associated with an element type null must
  not contain the character.  That was way off in left field if you ask
  me.  must generate an xml error.
 
  item name=Dero POI
  icon=images/../styles/standard/vehicle/rental/bicycle.png
  type=node preset_name_label=true
key key=amenity value=bicycle_repair_station /
key key=brand value=Dero /
key key=opening_hours value=24/7 /
key key=operator value=Arizona State University /
key key=note
  value=https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair; /
key key=ref value=.none. /
key key=service:bicycle:chaintool value=no /
key key=service:bicycle:charging value=no /
key key=service:bicycle:pump value=yes /
key key=service:bicycle:screwdriver value=yes /
key key=source value=osmsync:dero /
key key=source_alt value=survey /
key key=website value=
 http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html; /
  /item
 
  Here's my change information.
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28718833
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3339010296
 
  I don't know if this will render but I think it would be useful to on
  the bicycle map.
 
  Regards,
  Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Bryce Nesbitt]

To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The
 database is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data
quality is spot on in many cases, and geocoding level in other cases with
the pins generally in the right area.   The stations are too small to find
on an air photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found
with a search engine.

The vendor uses OSM as a base map:
http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
The discussion is on the imports list.
The data is at:
http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Proposed import: Bicycle Repair Stations, Mostly in the USA

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Head over to imports-us for the discussion.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair
is the proposal page.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] access road routing - two real world cases

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I would tag *access=destination* here, and hope routers don't use that route
unless the way is within the bounding box (or at least near) to my
destination.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Misspelled names

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Note that for shops with a website,
KeepRight loads the website and matches the name.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Beaver dam? Wrecked bridge? Hallucinatory roads in TIGER?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I've frequently wanted to map the trails that peter out for exactly the
reason you state.

The choices as a mapper seem wrong:
1) Map the trail : thus encouraging use of a flawed route.
2) Don't map the trail.  The casual map reader thinks OSM is missing
something.


Possible solutions include a node type of becomes indistinct, or dead
end.
How to mark the way is trickier.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging a seasonally closed roads with uncertain spring opening

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Paper maps handle this with Closed in winter. access=seasonal seems
the tagging equivalent.

Then, perhaps, if actual dates are announced they could be coded:
access:announced_opening=20140501

A router may key off access=seasonal to warn people that a closure
date needs to be checked for.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Help with revert : Drag moved street in Denver

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I did a partial revert of:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25206929#map=18/39.75833/-105.03600layers=D
Using JOSM.
Would someone take a peek at this: it's my first revert, and a second set
of eyes would be nice.


The original edit dragged a road, disconnecting at multiple points.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Help with revert : Drag moved street in Denver

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:

 usually disconnections shouldn't happen by a simple drag. At least in JOSM
 (but I believe also in the other editors), you'd have to actively
 disconnect the nodes.


What I found was a road that remained straight, but had been disconnected
on both sides.
Does the revert look proper?  What might have caused the original issue?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Dirt Roads (formerly: Abandoned railway)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 1:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:



  Il giorno 06/set/2014, alle ore 07:24, Bryce Nesbitt 
 bry...@obviously.com ha scritto:
 
  BUT ANY OF THESE can be primary, secondary, tertiary or residential.

 No, the ones that are too narrow (motorcycle) can only be path in osm

 Cheers,
 Martin


I'll take that bait.

Forget OSM for a moment.  Imagine a spiderweb of hiking trails on a
conventional map.
Chances are, some of the trunk trails will be more primary, and drawn using
a heavier line.
It's useful to map viewers, and thus is done.

The *concept* of hierarchy still exists for hiking trails, motorcycle
routes, paths, stairs, walkways.
Now we need to figure out how to consistently tag that concept in OSM, so
rendering engines
can start using it.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Dirt Roads (formerly: Abandoned railway)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I see rural roads breaking down fairly neatly:

   - Paved
   - Unpaved improved
   - Track
  - ATV/Narrow vehicle only (the United States Forest Service defines
  this as 50 body width or less)
  - Single track (e.g. Motorcycle)
   - Trail
  - Closed to some combination of ATV/Bicycles/Stock/Motorcycles/etc.

Unpaved improved roads are suitable for general vehicle travel.
Tracks have exceptions, perhaps seasonally.


BUT ANY OF THESE can be primary, secondary, tertiary or residential.  Try
to tell an Alaskan resident that a gravel road can't be a primary highway,
and see what kind of reaction you get.   A primary challenge in using OSM
maps in the rural USA is that they're all classified as residential and
look like a spaghetti monster.  And that's misleading: there are rural main
roads, main tracks, and main paved roads.


And the term 4WD never need come into it.  Tracks degrade primarily in
these ways.  And here there is no good tagging yet:

   - High clearance required
   - Limited traction when dry (e.g. sand)
   - Limited traction when wet (e.g. mud)
   - Narrow (e.g. must vehicles yield to cross in opposite directions)
   - Unusual conditions so noted (e.g. winch section).

The above are needed to determine if a given road is potentially suitable
for 2WD travel by a skilled driver.

One data source in the USA is the yearly MUVM maps (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Use_Map ) published by the USDA
under 36 CFR 212.56. See
http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/ohv_maps.shtml
These also specify closure dates for roads, or closure conditions.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] [Imports] fleet manager speed limit import proposal (Canada, USA)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Keep in mind when collecting fleet speed limits:

in many places HGV's have a different limit than other traffic.
For example the Interstates in California USA are generally 65 mph
general/55 mph trucks.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Why we really don't get new users

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote:


 I'm going to just point out the elephant in the room here. I don't think
 any
 normal user cares about the license at all. I think the actual reason its
 hard
 to get new mappers, especially those that are not nerdy and obsessive like
 myself is that *the ontology sucks*. There, I said it, so you don't have
 to.


I think the real reason is that there's just one model: *mapping as an end
to itself.*
Just look at the outreach material: it talks about mapping as an end, and
encourages
people to get involved in this nebulous thing called mapping, as if that
was enough.

Map geeks?  Check.
This map geek and his son? Check.
Other people?  Hmm.



*How about map all the pubs in your area?  Or Find the world's best map
of hiking trailsand help keep the map strong by editing if needed?  Or
contribute to the world's best map of speed cameras?  Or Map free
library locations (e.g. *
*http://littlefreelibrary.org/ http://littlefreelibrary.org/ and clones)?*
Maybe the pool of obsessive mappers is drawing thin.
The pool of pub enthusiasts, however, is as strong as ever.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Merging a GNIS node with a TIGER way - for a town

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Sebastian Arcus s.ar...@open-t.co.uk wrote:
 All of that doesn't really exist in the US, if my knowledge serves me right.
 Even the smallest of settlements (bigger than a farm) seemed to have started
 in the US around a group of facilities, such as shops, entertainment venues,
 trading facilities etc. - which would directly correspond functionally to a
 town.

In the developing USA, a major milestone was the opening of a post
office.   Thus it was not a real named town until the post office
moved in.

These days in California the creation of dissolution of a municipal
entity is controlled Local Agency Formation Commissions or LAFCOS
(Under Title 5, Division 3 of California Government Code the
Cortese-Knox-Hertzberg Act).  A new community requires 500 people
represented.  But an older community can wither down to nothing as
long as it continues to meet all other obligations.  Similarly a town
can loose it's post office without loosing status as a municipal
entity.  And it can keep it's name (Town or City) no matter how small
it goes.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Merging a GNIS node with a TIGER way - for a town

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I generally copy the tags to the boundary (in JOSM copy the node, then
paste tags into the way).
The tiger and gnis tags do not overlap.  The GNISID is a particularly
useful tag to preserve.

Town vs. City is a matter of opinion.  You can visit the municipal website
and use whatever term they use more often.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Merging a GNIS node with a TIGER way - for a town

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 terms like town and city generally have specific legal meanings in
 the US, and those meanings vary from state to state. this is one where
 in all likelyhood you should leave it to a local mapper, or consult with
 a knowledgeable CA mapper about the situation there.

As a California mapper and mapping geek:
Fortuna calls itself a city at http://friendlyfortuna.com/ , no other level
of CA government will contradict that.


 most of the tags from the GNIS import aren't terribly interesting.

The gnis:id=277520 and perhaps gnis:Class= and ele= tags are interesting,
as is census:population=.  Note the ele= in this case is meters.

Tag gnis:id=277520 is the main one to preserve, however, as the rest can be
derived.  You can also do cool lookups like:
http://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=136:3:0::NO:3:P3_FID,P3_TITLE:277520,Fortuna
And learn the present placename was adopted in the year 1888, the town was
also known as Fortune, Friendly City, Slide and (yet again) Springfield.

Every US Federal agency is required... required... to use GNIS, so the
gnis:id is a non-fuzzy key to a wealth of interesting data.  The non-fuzzy
part is important.


*The [gnis] database assigns a unique, permanent feature identifier, the
 Feature ID, as the only standard Federal key for accessing, integrating, or
 reconciling feature data from multiple data sets.*
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Merging a GNIS node with a TIGER way - for a town

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
wrote:

 terms like town and city generally have specific legal meanings in
 the US, and those meanings vary from state to state. this is one where
 in all likelyhood you should leave it to a local mapper, or consult with
 a knowledgeable CA mapper about the situation there.

As a California mapper and mapping geek:
Fortuna calls itself a city at http://friendlyfortuna.com/ , no other level
of CA government will contradict that.


 most of the tags from the GNIS import aren't terribly interesting.

The gnis:id=277520 and perhaps gnis:Class= and ele= tags are interesting,
as is census:population=.  Note the ele= in this case is meters.

Tag gnis:id=277520 is the main one to preserve, however, as the rest can be
derived.  You can also do cool lookups like:
http://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=136:3:0::NO:3:P3_FID,P3_TITLE:277520,Fortuna
And learn the present placename was adopted in the year 1888, the town was
also known as Fortune, Friendly City, Slide and (yet again) Springfield.

Every US Federal agency is required... required... to use GNIS, so the
gnis:id is a non-fuzzy key to a wealth of interesting data.  The non-fuzzy
part is important.


*The [gnis] database assigns a unique, permanent feature identifier, the
 Feature ID, as the only standard Federal key for accessing, integrating, or
 reconciling feature data from multiple data sets.*
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Any foursquare/OSM editing update? How about Craigslist?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Thanks for that  Randy.

Echoing your themes: the global home page, and especially the US home page,
do seem to assume people will jump right into general purpose mapping.  The
underlying assumption seems to be 'if *they* only had known OSM exists,
they'd become dedicated mappers'.

I think there is more potential in pulling people in via interest areas.
 Maybe it's specific POI types ( http://www.poi-factory.com/ ), or social
goals, or clubbing, or Realtors, surfing spots, mosques, environment,
amusement parks, or whatever.  I know I've brought in a few on water
fountain mapping, who would not otherwise have seen a meaning in mapping
via osm.

There are plenty of organizations that could contribute users in narrow
areas.  Rails to Trails Conservancy springs to mind, as do The Nature
Conservancy and Ducks Unlimited.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Semi-spammy sorta-helpful edit: how to handle

[Bryce Nesbitt]

 I ran into something similar:  a note tag entered a week ago by user Noram
 (near a new node with name= Noram Auto Repair) which simply listed Repair
 and service of Japanese, and American made automobiles and trucks.


Let's do better than that at http://www.noramautorepairservices.com/

But the bigger issues remain.  As OSM gains, it will become a target both
for the Mom  Pops looking to get
the word out and the less ethical. Axel's Mom was I assume just clumsy.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Quick intro and request to contribute

[Bryce Nesbitt]

And I encourage you to ask is this a one time import or an ongoing
import?
For your speed data a one time import might be OK.
For something like store locations, which change all the time, the data
might just get stale in OSM.

The proper term for matching up data like this is 'conflation', and that
sometimes involves one or more identifiers
you'd call conflation keys or match targets.  These could be database
primary keys, road names, or route numbers.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] GNIS updating

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote:


 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 If you
 find a problematic GNIS node (especially natural feature), you should
 consider sending an email to gnis_mana...@usgs.gov as another QA point
 for OSM, rather than just deleting it.


 Great advise. Can you add this to the gnis wiki?


And if you find a notable feature in OSM that's not in GNIS, and are
willing to provide some
documentation beyond OSM itself, there's a form for that.

Example: I found Exclamation Point Point (7702ft) in OSM and finding the
name so neat,
dragged up the documentation on it, and it's now in GNIS.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] SPUI mapping

[Bryce Nesbitt]

 I am looking for opinions on how to map these complex interchanges.
 Could a few of you have a look at what I did and comment? Thanks.


Thinking out loud:  A SPUI is conceptually simple from a routing
perspective: from all input roads you can turn left, right or go straight.
The complexity comes in drafting every travel path and slip road, as you
admirably did.

Could you map the logical connections simply, then map a decorative overlay
of the SPUI with some form of area, which
won't itself apply routing metrics?  Sort of a large funny shaped
connecting node?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] GNIS tag removal proposal

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

   I would like to suggest that the editors remove the following tags
  entirely:
 
  gnis:ST_num
  gnis:ST_alpha
  gnis:feature_type...
 Unless there are serious objections I plan to open a pull request adding
 listed tags to the discard list.


As the discard list gets bigger, I think there are some ways the list could
be better. My main discomfort is the notion that we want humans to review
the tag list, yet the editors don't quite do that.

I'll look into creating a patch for JOSM that would at least warn an editor
working on a node that
some of the tags are about to disappear:  Before I learned about the
discard list I spent a lot of time deleting tiger:upload_uuid, not
knowing that it would disappear anyway.  And I carefully preserved
tiger:tlid, thinking it was useful.

My Java's rusty but I'll try...



After that is there a way to put the discard list into a central format
used by all editors?  Where is the discard list kept?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] GNIS tag removal proposal

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Here's a patch to JOSM to warn the human editor about tags that are about
to disappear.  What do you think?


--- src/org/openstreetmap/josm/gui/dialogs/properties/PropertiesDialog.java
(revision
6232)
+++ src/org/openstreetmap/josm/gui/dialogs/properties/PropertiesDialog.java
(working
copy)
@@ -280,6 +276,26 @@

 propertyTable.setSelectionMode(ListSelectionModel.MULTIPLE_INTERVAL_SELECTION);
 propertyTable.getTableHeader().setReorderingAllowed(false);

+// Style the key column
+propertyTable.getColumnModel().getColumn(0).setCellRenderer(new
DefaultTableCellRenderer(){
+@Override public Component
getTableCellRendererComponent(JTable table, Object value,
+
boolean isSelected, boolean hasFocus, int row, int column) {
+Component cc = super.getTableCellRendererComponent(table,
value, isSelected, false, row, column);
+if (value == null)
+return this;
+String myvalue = (String)value;
+if (OsmPrimitive.getDiscardableKeys().contains(myvalue) ) {
+cc.setFont(cc.getFont().deriveFont(Font.ITALIC));
+cc.setBackground(Color.RED);
+} else {
+cc.setFont(cc.getFont().deriveFont(Font.PLAIN));
+cc.setBackground(Color.WHITE);
+}
+return cc;
+}
+});
+
+// Style the value column
 propertyTable.getColumnModel().getColumn(1).setCellRenderer(new
DefaultTableCellRenderer(){
 @Override public Component
getTableCellRendererComponent(JTable table, Object value,
 boolean isSelected, boolean hasFocus, int row, int
column) {
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] map data error page at gps.gov

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote:

 If anyone is inclined to agitate, it would be cool if this page:
   http://www.gps.gov/support/user/mapfix/
 acknowledged OSM as a provider of map data, and had a pointer of how to
 report errors in OSM somehow.

Success, perhaps:

--
From: Jason Y. Kim jason.kim++gps.gov
Thanks for the suggestion.  We'll add that link when we update the page.
Jason Y. Kim
Webmaster, www.gps.gov

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 At http://www.gps.gov/support/user/mapfix/ your website offers links
 to two major commercial map providers for GPS devices.  There's another
 major provider, a non-profit at http://www.openstreetmap.org/.
 Would you consider linking there as well?
Bryce Nesbitt
Berkeley, CA USA
--

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] map data error page at gps.gov

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Well, maybe with a little encouragement with Jason Y. Kim is in order.  If
someone
edited the page and sent him text, for example...
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Postal Code Extract (zip vs zcta)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote:

 On 9/4/13 7:16 AM, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote:

 From the page which Bryce referred to in http://lists.openstreetmap.**
 org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-**September/011738.htmlhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-September/011738.htmlcomes
  the following passage:

 The term ZCTA was created to differentiate between this entity and true
 USPS ZIP Codes.
 ZCTA is a trademark of the U.S. Census Bureau; ZIP Code is a trademark of
 the U.S. Postal Service.

 Therefore, ZCTA information _approximates_ ZIP information for census
 purposes.  If you want to map/use ZIP code information, don't use the ZCTA
 information to do it, I would infer.--ceyockey

  any area-oriented representation of zip data will be an approximation.
 it's the nature of the beast.


+1 on that.  ZIP codes are not as simple as they seem.
For a great *animation* of what a ZCTA is, see:
http://www.census.gov/geo/ZCTA/zcta_delineation_animation.html
The census bureau was compelled to build an alternative to pure ZIP codes
for all the reasons cited so far and more.

Note that ZIP codes change also: a few thousand a year are adjusted
according to USPS.  Some zip codes even cross state boundaries.  They
frequently cross county and city lines.

See http://www.carrierroutes.com/more-zip-code-faqs.html#zipcodemapping
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Putting businesses on OSM with onosm.org

[Bryce Nesbitt]

I found when accepting water fountain data from non-mappers that... most
of it was good... but I really had to flip through each node to find the
newbie mistakes.

I think onosm would produce a lot of good data that would be better hand
curated
as it enters osm proper.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Seeking 3 volunteers (to send their votes down on toilets).

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Would three kind souls take the time to vote at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:amenity%3Dtoilets
To bring the total to 15 voters?
Thanks!

(I welcome anyone interested in counting the seated capacity of toilets to
then make a subsequent proposal)
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Shining example of OSM use, tarnished.

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Dear US OSM enthusiasts:

Out Whitehouse is using OpenStreetMap:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/change
Uses CloudMade tiles and OpenLayers to display a... broken map... with
broken images.

I've emailed the whitehouse webmaster without effect.  Is anyone aware of
how this
map came to be placed here, and who we might contact to get it fixed up as
a positive
example of OSM, rather than a negative one?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Cemeteries in OSM?

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:

 Are there Smartphone apps that can do this with the help of their
  accelerometer?  Some other type of hardware?


I could point you to the professional equipment that can do this.
On the cheap though, consider using a laser measuring device.  Set a base
control point and measure relative to it.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Spammy-sounding survey sent to my OSM inbox today.

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 **

 I might be the nicest person you have ever met, I hope I am a good OSM
 mapper, and I am kind to children and animals.  However, I vehemently
 oppose OSM collecting any additional personally-identifiable data.  My
 birth year, employment status, gender and other such data are nobody's
 business but mine.


Any such collection should (as prior discussion has been headed)be provided
voluntarily with a privacy choice:

Birth year __  [-] visible to public.
   [-] shared in full, for qualified research
projects.
   [*] shared in aggregate form only, for qualified
research projects.
Languages Spoken  [English-Fluent][German-Rudimentary]
I am willing to be contact up to once ever 6 months for research surveys [X]


Understanding who is mapping is a useful thing for a wide variety of
purposes.   OSM is a community of mappers: many will chose to share who
they are and their motivations for participating. We're mapping verifiable
objects and defined boundaries that exist in the world: this is not
wikileaks.

An opt-out should mostly keep the data clean: removing the incentive to
provide fake data (e.g. Birth year 1/1/1900, with apologies to anyone
actually born on that day
[1http://www.theglobaledition.com/study-finds-all-internet-users-born-on-jan-1-1900/]).
 The cost of collecting demographics is low.  The disruption to those
seeking anonymity is slight.

  -Bryce


[1] SAN FRANCISCO (AP) – A recent analysis of unencrypted user data from
the nation’s top ten most visited websites by a subsidiary of Cisco Systems
has revealed the average age of internet users to be 112 with over 35% of
people having a birthday falling on January 1st 1900.
http://www.theglobaledition.com/study-finds-all-internet-users-born-on-jan-1-1900/
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Spammy-sounding survey sent to my OSM inbox today.

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


 I don't know which OSM board but the OSMF board certainly didn't. The
 contrary is the case:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user_blocks/369http://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/369
 I think it is time to follow this up with the student's superiors.



I think it is *also* time to create a supportable sustainable strategy for
future researchers or grad students.  While padeshahekhoban's survey was
poorly designed, the next one could be better.

A great first step could be collecting demographic information on mappers:

Birth year  [make public] [share in aggregate with researchers
only] [share with OSM admins  researchers]
Gender [make public] [share in aggregate with researchers only]
[share with OSM admins  researchers]
Employment Status [prisoner, pensioner, student, employedhours]


A second step then could be taken: granting question access to well
designed surveys under a well defined set of rules.  Such surveys would be
official, and come from an administrative account, and be sent to a *
representative* sample of mappers.

A base criteria should be knowing who the asker is.  User padeshahekhoban
school, adviser, and research project were not identified.  We can't even
necessarily contact his adviser.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Spammy-sounding survey sent to my OSM inbox today.

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:


 2013/7/27 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com

 I think it is *also* time to create a supportable sustainable strategy
 for future researchers or grad students.


 IMHO our data including all history is public, our wiki including the
 history is public, our MLs and forums are mostly public, there is loads of
 stuff to analyze and study for probably hundreds or even thousands of
 scientists / students ;-)
 no need to bother the mappers every x months with a new questionnaire.


Editing logs are there.  But demographic information (the bulk of *
padeshahekhoban's* survey) is not recorded by OSM.  We have no idea who
most mappers are.  For example: people doing gender analysis of OSM users
use name analysis (e.g. Jane is female).   Education level is relevant,
but not recoverable.  Home country (for expats) is not recoverable either,
but of interest in marking the participation level of local residents.
 Human languages spoken would also be of interest.

If osmf collects just a bit more demographic data, the vast bulk of public
data becomes more useful to research.


There are privacy issues, for those accounts who provide demographics only
to researchers.
If demographics are included with editing stats, it becomes probable
someone could work the data in reverse to reveal the member ID.


Beyond that I think it reasonable to ask more of mappers.  Wikipedia has a
good argument for anonymous editing.  OpenStreetMap?  I think not so much.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us