Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Ira, Hello Gleason, Monday, July 15, 2019, 10:55:48 AM, you wrote: Gleason> So give The Bat a fair chance. It is the best out there relatively. I do give it a fair chance and I always upgrade, but that doesn't mean it's not broken. Personally, not one piece of software I've written has any known bugs. I'm embarrassed when bugs get reported in my software and so I make them go away. Sometimes for my embedded stuff that pays bills, at my expense, I jump on an airplane to visit a customer or make new PC boards with a bunch of LEDs so the customer can tell me where the problem happens. I'm not so generous for my freeware, but I rarely let bugs last past the next day. I just couldn't live with myself. So when bugs in a program I pay for don't get resolved I tend to think the either people at the top don't care or the people writing the code aren't up to the task. But the Bat seem to be the best there is, so I tolerate it's foibles. But that makes it difficult to recommend. Understood. As you say, it is the best there is. There is nothing else to recommend, so don't prejudice potential users. Email clients seem to be different from other kinds of software. It takes 10 years or so to get a fairly decent client more or less done. I say that because it seems to take that long. For some, resources have run out and they had to go away. Mulberry was one of those. As far as an imap design concept, I count it as the best there is (was). But the author couldn't sell enough to pay for what it would take to work out problems on the code side. I don't think he lacked for skill, since he was in on the imap 4 development team. Beyond that, email clients are falling into disuse. Webmail, textmail on phones, forums, etc are the new way. And it was always difficult to charge a fair price for the work done, because for one thing, you are competing against all the free clients. Another thing is that email clients developed by a lone worker seem to do less well than those managed by a team. The complexity demanded seems to require that, and teams are a lot more expensive to maintain and less willing to stick it through the lean times. You do embedded work. I bet you are paid well, and you can afford the luxury of jumping on an airplane to fix somebody's problem. -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Title: Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) Hello Gleason, Monday, July 15, 2019, 10:55:48 AM, you wrote: Gleason> So give The Bat a fair chance. It is the best out there relatively. I do give it a fair chance and I always upgrade, but that doesn't mean it's not broken. Personally, not one piece of software I've written has any known bugs. I'm embarrassed when bugs get reported in my software and so I make them go away. Sometimes for my embedded stuff that pays bills, at my expense, I jump on an airplane to visit a customer or make new PC boards with a bunch of LEDs so the customer can tell me where the problem happens. I'm not so generous for my freeware, but I rarely let bugs last past the next day. I just couldn't live with myself. So when bugs in a program I pay for don't get resolved I tend to think the either people at the top don't care or the people writing the code aren't up to the task. But the Bat seem to be the best there is, so I tolerate it's foibles. But that makes it difficult to recommend. -- Ira 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
NetVicious,
> lunes, 15 jul. 2019 at 19:55, it seems you wrote:
>> The Bat - poor support for identities
> What do you need?
> I use a lot of email aliases, and with macros in the templates I use
> each aliases without any problem. I set one folder to receive all the
> messages sent or received with one alias. And when I create a new mail
> from that folder the aliases are used.
> At this moment I'm writing you from one alias with that setup.
> %IF:"%-
> %TOLIST%CCLIST%BCCLIST"="":'%TO="tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com"'
> %QT="tb_netvicious.com"
Yes, that allows you to tie a specific set of macros to a specific email
address. Better
would be to be able to specify a set of identities with different email
addresses, etc.
Then when I prepare a new email/reply, I should be able to simply choose the
identity I
want from a drop down list.
It is true that a certain send to address would probably always get the same
identity, but
since I work with a lot of often changing correspondents, it becomes
overwhelming to be
constantly adding new, removing old, especially since few identities would have
only one
correspondent.
The other thing is that The Bat has been known to throw away all my defined
QT's, message templates, etc.
when using a new installer. It is best to not have many, I think. Even so, it
is a nuisance for me when
I must reenter all I have.
> That QT has:
> %FROM="NetVicious "
> %REPLYTO="NetVicious "
> %SETHEADER("X-Rogue",":netvicious:")
> With macros you can set all the identities you new.
> Obviously this can be made more simple adding options to TB! to do it
> without the need of using macros. But it works for me from a long long
> long time.
> Regards,
--
Gleason
'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
lunes, 15 jul. 2019 at 19:55, it seems you wrote:
> The Bat - poor support for identities
What do you need?
I use a lot of email aliases, and with macros in the templates I use
each aliases without any problem. I set one folder to receive all the
messages sent or received with one alias. And when I create a new mail
from that folder the aliases are used.
At this moment I'm writing you from one alias with that setup.
%IF:"%-
%TOLIST%CCLIST%BCCLIST"="":'%TO="tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com"'
%QT="tb_netvicious.com"
That QT has:
%FROM="NetVicious "
%REPLYTO="NetVicious "
%SETHEADER("X-Rogue",":netvicious:")
With macros you can set all the identities you new.
Obviously this can be made more simple adding options to TB! to do it
without the need of using macros. But it works for me from a long long
long time.
Regards,
--
/\/ Using The Bat! 8.8.9 Professional OTFE with
iKey1000
/ \ / \ / Windows (10.0.18362 )
/\/ e t \/ i c i o u s Plugins: AntiSpamSniper 3.3.3.9 and
Spanish Translator of The Bat!
'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
7/15/2019 2:08 PM Hi Gleason, On 7/15/2019 The you wrote: G> So give The Bat a fair chance. It is the best out there relatively. Agreed! - -- Paul 32bit TB 8.8.2.8 (BETA) Windows 7 Pro 7600 No IMAP No OTFE 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Ira, > Hello Maxim, > Monday, July 15, 2019, 9:04:21 AM, you wrote: Maxim>> We are still committed to compatibility with Windows XP > How many customers still use XP? I bet it's in the single digit > percent and you're better off leaving them behind. No one who has > any inkling of security will still be using XP on an internet > connected computer. Decisions like that are probably what will end up killing > the product. > Personally I like the Bat, but I just wish you'd fix the bugs and > not worry about new features. I'd guess that involves a lot of > rewriting sections from scratch given the number of times seeming > unrelated bugs pop up after what should have been simple fixes. That's the trade off. New features and new ideas attract new users. Fixes make old users smile more. > I refuse to use online mail and I use the Bat and have just had to > accept that you'll never fix the bugs and I just have to put up with > the annoyances, but it's not a way to make sure your customer base > expands. When people ask me about email programs , I tell them about > the Bat, but I always have to include cautions about the weirdness > of how it works and the bugs that never get fixed. Actually, not one client in the list I keep has reached that level of completion. When you say that about The Bat, and fail to say that every client out there has weirdnesses of their own and things that don't get fixed, you essentially don't give The Bat a fair chance. For instance here is my short list of weirdnesses: Becky - many functions don't work for imap, like message filters Pegasus - no automatic mail check for imap, no message flag eMclient - no template macros, signature shows at top of reply The Bat - poor support for identities Thunderbird - Must assign bcc by identity. Quote bar doesn't show on other clients. Postbox - TBird + no templates Maiilbird - no filters, no templates, no quote previous inscribe - Can't quote previous message in reply, loading large messagebase is inefficient So give The Bat a fair chance. It is the best out there relatively. > Give what it is > capable of, it should be considered the best and most flexible, but > the apparent inability of the programming staff to finish it, keeps > it far from being the best choice for quite large percentages of the > population. > -- Ira -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Title: Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) Hello Maxim, Monday, July 15, 2019, 9:04:21 AM, you wrote: Maxim> We are still committed to compatibility with Windows XP How many customers still use XP? I bet it's in the single digit percent and you're better off leaving them behind. No one who has any inkling of security will still be using XP on an internet connected computer. Decisions like that are probably what will end up killing the product. Personally I like the Bat, but I just wish you'd fix the bugs and not worry about new features. I'd guess that involves a lot of rewriting sections from scratch given the number of times seeming unrelated bugs pop up after what should have been simple fixes. I refuse to use online mail and I use the Bat and have just had to accept that you'll never fix the bugs and I just have to put up with the annoyances, but it's not a way to make sure your customer base expands. When people ask me about email programs , I tell them about the Bat, but I always have to include cautions about the weirdness of how it works and the bugs that never get fixed. Give what it is capable of, it should be considered the best and most flexible, but the apparent inability of the programming staff to finish it, keeps it far from being the best choice for quite large percentages of the population. -- Ira 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Hello Lüko, We are replacing TB2K/TBX/SpTBX toolbars and menus to DevExpress ribbon controls. Window elements like buttons, checkboxes, radiobuttons, status bars, etc. will have consistent look according to a currently selected theme provided by the DevExpress library. PGP internal implementation will be removed. Third-party libraries like PngLib, JpegLib, PCRE, etc. will be updated to most recent versions. Many thread-related bugs will be fixed. These bugs, for example, caused abnormalities on The Bat! exit, i.e. The Bat! Process could stay in the task manager after the user have exited the application. We are also remove lot of legacy code and replace it with new leaner one without sacrificing functionality of The Bat!. The new code is smaller, faster and easier to manage by the developers. However, the addition of DevExpress will likely increase the executable size of The Bat! significantly. We are still committed to compatibility with Windows XP. We will unlikely fix the BLOCKQUOTE issues alongside the changes above mentioned. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutin 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)
Hello Marck, Friday, July 12, 2019, 3:50:46 AM, you wrote: > Interesting! Delphi certainly has issues. We will try to make a small isolated piece of code that reproduces the issue and if we succeed will submit it to the developers of Delphi. We have submitted several bugs them already during past years, most of them now fixed. At the moment, their bug tracker https://qc.embarcadero.com/ does not seem to work. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutin 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
OT Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented?
Am 15.07.19 um 12:57 schrieb Lüko Willms: don't throw stones into areas which are beyond your horizon and which you obviously do not understand. Cheers, Why are you so offending? And why don't you respect list rules e.g. plain text posting and signature delimiters? Cheers, Feli 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Lüko, Hello Gleason, hello everybody, on Montag, 15. Juli 2019 at 00:59 Gleason wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) >> So stop talking nonsense about things which are beyond your >> horizon, and stay put in your little box. > Perhaps you know nothing at all about me. I understand that you are using nothing but content-type=text/plain, and I tell you that when you think that HTML tags like have anything to do with that, then I have to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. Bother about text/plain (but why do you use UTF-8, then?) and don't throw stones into areas which are beyond your horizon and which you obviously do not understand. I guess html is ok in this list now. Here is what my reply to you outside of this list would look like. Better? And this universally accepted quoting is what I don't want to loose. Mozilla can go their own way, but the world has not followed. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)
Hello Maxim , > So the 32-bit version of The Bat! did not have the bug with OpenPGP > signed messages. We have re-writted relevant code in The Bat! to > mitigate the compiler bug. However, we are now working on version 9 > and will unlikely publish a new beta or release soon. So I'd suggest > to use 32-bit version of The Bat! in the meanwhile. Well, then I am very curious which new features are planned in v9. :-) In contrast to some others here, I don't have problems at the moment with The Bat, which runs in a live situation. Admittedly, I may not use the program onto its limits - in my daily situation I've no need for that. -- Kind regards, Gunivortus Goos The Bat! Professional 64 bit, version 8.8.9 Windows Pro 64 bit version 10, build nr. 17134 NordVPN vs. 6.22.6.0 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Lüko, > Hello Gleason, hello everybody, > on Montag, 15. Juli 2019 at 00:59 Gleason wrote > re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? > (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) > >>> So stop talking nonsense about things which are beyond your >>> horizon, and stay put in your little box. >> Perhaps you know nothing at all about me. > I understand that you are using nothing but > content-type=text/plain, and I tell you that when you think that > HTML tags like have anything to do > with that, then I have to tell you that you don't know what you are talking > about. > > Bother about text/plain (but why do you use UTF-8, then?) and > don't throw stones into areas which are beyond your horizon and > which you obviously do not understand. I use plain text/microed when replying to this list. In every other case, I use html. You know nothing about what I understand.It might be that the list no longer requires plain text. I don't see the moderator stepping in to tell you about it. > Cheers, > Lüko Willms > Frankfurt am Main > Germany > using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) > OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) > CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ > MEM: 4097 MB -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Hello everybody, on Montag, 15. Juli 2019 at 03:41 Thomas Fernandez wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) I don't know about blockquotes but what annoys me tremendously is that some HTML messages are simply not displayed: https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1479 I remember that problem. I believe to have commented on it in this mailing list. But obviously not in Ritlabs's Mantis bug tracker. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt))
Hello Gleason, hello everybody, on Montag, 15. Juli 2019 at 00:59 Gleason wrote re ...working on version 9 — will essential changes be implemented? (was: The Bat! v8.8.9 MSI (3rd attempt)) >> So stop talking nonsense about things which are beyond your >> horizon, and stay put in your little box. > Perhaps you know nothing at all about me. I understand that you are using nothing but content-type=text/plain, and I tell you that when you think that HTML tags like have anything to do with that, then I have to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. Bother about text/plain (but why do you use UTF-8, then?) and don't throw stones into areas which are beyond your horizon and which you obviously do not understand. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.8 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
