[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

@Lin that sounds great!

I tried a few things (basic, since I'm not really a coder), but no success.


On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 7:21:34 AM UTC+1 Lin Onetwo wrote:

> I'm always planning to make w WYSIWYG editor for tw, I think it can be 
> done by:
>
> 1. single click to edit style only text like //this//, right-click and 
> choose "edit" in the context menu to edit macro or widget
> 2. this means we are editing things in "block level", we can know how to 
> group similar things into "block" by traversing AST of parsed wikitext
> 3. we may have to hijack the rendered tiddler, replace DOM of the block we 
> click on, with an input textfield, and that small text editor will change 
> tiddler's text.
>
> I'm pretty interested in this. There still are lots of things to 
> experiment.
>
> But I'm recently working on a Git-based TiddlyWiki Desktop variant, so I'm 
> not working on this topic.
>
> Lin Onetwo
>
>
> 在2020年6月28日星期日 UTC+8 上午8:54:02 写道：
>
>> @BJ Thanks for that! How did I miss this... 
>> I might be googling this wrong things. Where could I have found this? 
>>
>> @Saq Thanks! I'll check it out!
>>
>> On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 10:31:17 PM UTC+1 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> @ognsya you might save yourself some work by adapting the editing 
>>> technique from:
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/tiddlywiki/lQ1N1t-0Gtw
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

@BJ Thanks for that! How did I miss this... 
I might be googling this wrong things. Where could I have found this? 

@Saq Thanks! I'll check it out!

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 10:31:17 PM UTC+1 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> @ognsya you might save yourself some work by adapting the editing 
> technique from:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/tiddlywiki/lQ1N1t-0Gtw
>

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[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

Could be (well, probably is) what you said.

But (I think) I'm trying something a bit different (and probably stupid).
The way I'm doing it, I'd never (or rarely) actually open a tiddler in Edit 
mode.
I'd always open an instance of a Temporary Tiddler template, which would 
grab all relevant info from the tiddler I actually want to edit.
So, for example, if I want to edit Tiddler A, I'd click on it, but in the 
background I'd actually get a new Temporary Tiddler, which would have text 
fields that connect to the ones in the actual tiddler (ie., most of the 
time I'd be in View mode in that Temporary Tiddler, but really editing the 
data in the target tiddler).

I'm trying to put together a demo for this. Maybe that will make more clear 
what I'm saying (and probably why it's wrong).

Right now my challenge is making the aforementioned CK visual editor work 
in the text fields in the Temporary Tiddler.

I had this:
<$edit-text tiddler="Name of Tiddler currently being edited" field="text"  
/>

Which works fine. But doesn't play well with the CKEditor.

I thought I could use the correct editor just by adding this:
<$edit-text tiddler="Name of Tiddler currently being edited" 
field="text"  type="text/x-htmlp"   />  

But no luck ..

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 9:15:24 PM UTC+1 Mat wrote:

> OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> I would like to be able to edit my tiddlers directly, from View mode. 
>>
>
> Well, there is still a visual difference between when you edit something 
> and when you only view it - even if the visual difference is the only the 
> display of an editor toolbar. This means there are still two "modes". What 
> I think people mean when they (including you) request "edit in view mode" 
> is that view mode and edit mode are more *visually similar* and to avoid 
> the very "explicit" actions of going up to an edit button and click it. 
> What could be done is to e.g make the editor use the same white background 
> colour and the same font and have the entering of edit mode be different 
> from the edit button; e.g clicking the text itself could be the button 
> (...but then, how do you click a link?) Just as we speak, some of the big 
> boys are creating some mechanism to trigger actions when clicking in the 
> editor. Such a thing could perhaps be used to trigger something in the 
> editor so it goes back to view mode.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: field value selector

[OGNSYA]

Works like a beauty! Thanks Mat and Saq.

This definitely seems like it should be part of TW by default... 
I'm not sure how to go about suggesting that though.
I'm not really a coder and don't use github... Should I add it as an 
"Issue" request there?

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:50:35 PM UTC+1 Mat wrote:

> Yeah, OGNSYA, that code from Saq is good. Instead of Saq's interesting 
> recipes, you can try it on tiddlyiki.com using e.g
>
> <>
>
> my-field:{{!!my-field}}
>
> also, to be safe, the single quote characters should be replaced with 
> triple quotes if you have any tiddler titles that contain quote characters.
>
> To use this inside e.g TiddlyTables you'll have to modify TiddlyTables to 
> make this macrocall instead of the edittext widget call.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

I'm thinking my use of the word "tag" in my previous message could be 
confusing, since it's different that the way the word tag is used in TW .
What I meant is to tag in the sense of defining a block. Something like 
 

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:53:45 PM UTC+1 OGNSYA wrote:

> Yep. My mistake! I'm using TiddlyDesktop and thought a reload was enough. 
> I had to close and reopen, now it works! 
>
> @Mat: Please don't shut up! 
> I understand what you explained, that things like that would need to be 
> solved...
> Maybe have a special tag for such codes (something akin to the "red text" 
> in LyX, for those familiar with that).
> In the editor, any content generated from code wouldn't be editable - it 
> would behave like a block, that when double(or right)-clicked, would reveal 
> the code for editing.
>
> Now I need to figure out a way to make it work for what I'm trying to do.
> I would like to be able to edit my tiddlers directly, from View mode. 
> I set it up so that I use a Temporary Tiddler, which allows editing the 
> text and other fields from the desired tiddler.
> I'm not sure if this makes sense (or if it might bring up any issues). But 
> I like the fact that it is direct (no changing between modes), and that 
> update happens instantaneously (no need to Save when done editing).
> This is working.
> However now I'm trying to make that text field (in the Temporary Tiddler) 
> use the visual editor. No luck yet (it shows the html output instead). Any 
> ideas?
> Will try hacking at it some more meanwhile!
> On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:35:36 PM UTC+1 Mat wrote:
>
>> Mat wrote:
>>>
>>> So, no, TW5 doesn't really offer any WYSIWYG editor as far as I know...
>>>
>>
>> Or, evidently, maybe I should just shut up. 
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

Yep. My mistake! I'm using TiddlyDesktop and thought a reload was enough. I 
had to close and reopen, now it works! 

@Mat: Please don't shut up! 
I understand what you explained, that things like that would need to be 
solved...
Maybe have a special tag for such codes (something akin to the "red text" 
in LyX, for those familiar with that).
In the editor, any content generated from code wouldn't be editable - it 
would behave like a block, that when double(or right)-clicked, would reveal 
the code for editing.

Now I need to figure out a way to make it work for what I'm trying to do.
I would like to be able to edit my tiddlers directly, from View mode. 
I set it up so that I use a Temporary Tiddler, which allows editing the 
text and other fields from the desired tiddler.
I'm not sure if this makes sense (or if it might bring up any issues). But 
I like the fact that it is direct (no changing between modes), and that 
update happens instantaneously (no need to Save when done editing).
This is working.
However now I'm trying to make that text field (in the Temporary Tiddler) 
use the visual editor. No luck yet (it shows the html output instead). Any 
ideas?
Will try hacking at it some more meanwhile!
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:35:36 PM UTC+1 Mat wrote:

> Mat wrote:
>>
>> So, no, TW5 doesn't really offer any WYSIWYG editor as far as I know...
>>
>
> Or, evidently, maybe I should just shut up. 
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: WYSIWYG editor for TW5

[OGNSYA]

Is TW5 able to offer a wysiwyg editor at the moment?

In this 2019  gh 
thread Jermolene suggests it could be doable, due to recent developments.

Other than that, the only solution I've found for this is CKEditor (in this 
2017 thread - which is why I'm reviving it). However, I followed the steps 
above and it didn't work in my TW.  I get the message "loading ckeditor" 
where the editor should be. I tried both - downloading the latest version 
in the ckeditor website, and using the online js library. Same thing. 

Anyone has/had any luck making wysiwyg work (with CK or anything else)?

I understand that this is not a priority for many of TW hardcore users, but 
for many of us it's very important.
I'm not much of a coder, but could try making this work if I got some 
pointers from more expert users...


On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 3:01:47 AM UTC+1 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

> Goto http://bjtools.tiddlyspot.com 
> . 
> Drag the plugin to your own tiddlywiki. Save and refresh your TW. From the 
> plugin tiddlers open $:/plugin/bj/visualeditor/includelib an insert the 
> library:https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/ckeditor/4.6.2/ckeditor.js
>
> When you want to use it you have to change the tiddlers type to 
> text/x-htmlp. When the plugin is installed, you will find it in the 
> selectbox.
>
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: field value selector

[OGNSYA]

Cool, I'll do a request.

I'm not a coder, and not familiar with github. 
I just created an account and found TW5 there.
Should I add this under "Issues" or "Pull requests"?
(first one seems inaccurate, second seems a bit too serious :D)



On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 3:36:04 PM UTC+1 Mat wrote:

> OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> I tend to do a lot of field editing from other tiddlers though (for 
>> example, using TiddlyTables, directly in the cells).
>> Would love for values to be suggested there as well...
>>
>> Any chance this can be implemented to work in any place where that field 
>> can be edited?
>>
>
> Hm. I guess it could be made so that instead of calling the 
> EditTextWidget, you called a custom macro that simply contains the 
> EditTextWidget but also a call to the fieldvalueselector. But if 
> TiddlyTables allows direct editing of cells, I assume this is done by 
> calling the EditTextWidget... i.e you'd have to remake TiddlyTables so that 
> it instead called this custom macro. Definitely doable but TiddlyTables is 
> not my plugin - and you only mention TiddlyTables as one example, 
> indicating additional contexts.
>
> Maybe you should make a gh request that the EditTextWidget can natively 
> show used values. There could be some flag in the widget. I think it makes 
> sense.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: field value selector

[OGNSYA]

That's so useful!

I tend to do a lot of field editing from other tiddlers though (for 
example, using TiddlyTables, directly in the cells).
Would love for values to be suggested there as well...

Any chance this can be implemented to work in any place where that field 
can be edited?


On Saturday, September 23, 2017 at 5:53:55 PM UTC+1, Mat wrote:
>
> *TWaddle Global Enterprises Incorporated Limited International Multisuper* 
> presents 
> the...
>
> field value selector 
>
> a drop down to select *field value* when creating new field
>
>
> This is just a *small* tool for *wikitext developers*. Not very sexy for 
> the general user.
>
> Similar to the "new field name" dropdown, this shows a dropdown listing 
> existing *field values* for that field name.
>
> The incentive to create this was the *list-before* and *list-after* 
> fields - it is frustratingly impossible to remember the title names to fill 
> in. In the process of solving this, I made the dropdown general to handle 
> values for all fields.
>
> This does NOT overwrite any shadow tids - but the cost is that the little 
> arrow appears below the "new field" area, rather than integrated into it.
>
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Tones, since the idea is to reach broader audiences, I still feel that it 
makes more sense to use much simpler names/descriptions (instead of 
mathematical formulas). Having said that, I really like your ideas and 
reasoning behind it all!

Going through the thread one more time, I feel that all the ideas and 
arguments presented fit together nicely, if we consider how flexible TW can 
be. In one end there is the coder, able to manipulate/develop; on the other 
end, the most casual user, that only has access to the content. Then there 
is the whole spectrum in-between.

What I (and some others) are talking about is making sure this full scope 
is always available, but never imposed.

As mentioned before, the idea of bringing in more casual users is not about 
diminishing TW's potential. On the contrary, making the top level more 
user-friendly wouldn't change the experience to experienced users. But it 
would make a huge difference in making it less daunting for new users. Even 
if these new users use just 1% of TW's potential, that's already much more 
than most comercial software out there. 

On top of that, as people get comfortable with TW, they would be able to 
gradually get more into it. The DIY analogy Tones made works well here. On 
one end, we have people who have workshops and professional tools, and can 
build any furniture from scratch. On the other end, Ikea people, who just 
want a table. Here is what TW could be: a table, ready for use, but which 
also comes with a box of tools, which the user is free to ignore. Then one 
day they'll notice the table is a bit wobbly due to the floor being 
slanted. They'll ask in the forum how to fix that. People will explain: 
"Open the toolbox, get tool A and just do this simple operation X". The 
user will feel very empowered (despite it being such a basic operation). 
Gradually they'll explore more of these options/tools. The one day they'll 
feel the need to have a little drawer under the table, and they'll realize 
they know how to use the tools to do it. Suddenly they're building their 
own furniture. 

But most people will never reach that point if they feel overwhelmed to 
start using TW in the first place..

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:44:03 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and 
> what type of people the project wants to reach?
>
> I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
> that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
> UI/workflow redesign. 
>
> In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
> estimate:
> (I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):
>
>- *What type of people uses TW? *(considering only those who 
>create/develop)
>(49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
>- *How do they use TW?* (considering only those who create/develop)
>(50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
>hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
>- *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2% 
>edit/view, 3% as viewers only?)
>- *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
>   - Non-coders (98.5%?)
>   - Casual coders (0.5%?)
>   - Coders (1%?)
>
> This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
> questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
> community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
> a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
> guesses, I partly used some data found online. )
>
> *Edit (2020/06/18): to account for view-only users*
>

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[tw5] Re: Reference another tiddler's field by using a value in a custom field

[OGNSYA]

Thank you for the explanations!

They all make sense to me, though it will probably be a while until I fully 
"get it"...

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 12:20:19 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I want to transclude a custom field (let's call it myfield) of a tiddler 
> (let's call it Source Tiddler) into another one (let's call it Target 
> Tiddler).
>
> I know I can just do this in Target Tiddler (assuming the Source Tiddler's 
> name is "Source Tiddler"): {{Source Tiddler!!myfield}}
>
> However, what if I want the name of that Source Tiddler to be dynamic, and 
> come from a field in target Tiddler (let's call that field sourcename)?
>
> Doing this, of course, shows me the name (just a string) of that source 
> tiddler: {{!!sourcename}}
>
> However it seems that I can't simply substitute that into the code above.
> In other words, this doesn't work: !!sourcename}}!!myfield}}
>
> I understand this is probably a very basic question. I suppose it has to 
> do with the number of brackets, and how to communicate the fact that 
> sourcename is something in the current tiddler, and myfield is something in 
> another tiddler... However I can't figure out how to solve it.  I'm still 
> very much a beginner in TW. Thanks in advance!
>

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[tw5] Re: Reference another tiddler's field by using a value in a custom field

[OGNSYA]

Thanks all for the help! This worked.

Just so I can learn with my mistakes, what was wrong about my thinking when 
I did this\?:
!!sourcename}}!!myfield}}


On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 1:53:52 PM UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 4:56:52 AM UTC-7, Michael Manti wrote:
>>
>> When trying to use information that's stashed in a field, I often find it 
>> easiest to use the widget syntax. In your case, I would use the transclude 
>> widget  in the target tiddler.
>> <$transclude tiddler={{!!sourcename}} field="myfield"/>
>>
>
> You can also write it this way:
> <$view tiddler={{!!sourcename}} field="myfield" />
>
> or even this way:
> <$tiddler tiddler={{!!sourcename}}>{{!!myfield}}
>
> -e
>

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[tw5] Reference another tiddler's field by using a value in a custom field

[OGNSYA]

I want to transclude a custom field (let's call it myfield) of a tiddler 
(let's call it Source Tiddler) into another one (let's call it Target 
Tiddler).

I know I can just do this in Target Tiddler (assuming the Source Tiddler's 
name is "Source Tiddler"): {{Source Tiddler!!myfield}}

However, what if I want the name of that Source Tiddler to be dynamic, and 
come from a field in target Tiddler (let's call that field sourcename)?

Doing this, of course, shows me the name (just a string) of that source 
tiddler: {{!!sourcename}}

However it seems that I can't simply substitute that into the code above.
In other words, this doesn't work: !!sourcename}}!!myfield}}

I understand this is probably a very basic question. I suppose it has to do 
with the number of brackets, and how to communicate the fact that 
sourcename is something in the current tiddler, and myfield is something in 
another tiddler... However I can't figure out how to solve it.  I'm still 
very much a beginner in TW. Thanks in advance!

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

I think he meant dragging in "non-Stream" tiddlers.

This is also something I miss in Stream. Alongside the option to have a 
node appear in multiple different places, not just as a transclusion.

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 7:33:34 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Can you confirm that just dragging and dropping in isn't working? 
>
> That feature was there since the start. If it isn't working now let me 
> know, there must have been a regression when I did the big refactoring a 
> while back. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 7:50:30 PM UTC+2, _Phi / hpx1 wrote:
>>
>> is there a way to insert an existing tiddler (one that is not part of any 
>> stream) into an existing stream by drag-n-dropping it in the tree ? I 
>> currently edit the child list/parent list of the tiddlers manually, but I 
>> guess there is a better way.
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Love what Tones wrote about democratization. 

It would be great if TiddlyWiki could be something that not only 
technically-minded people feel they can get into, but also the more general 
audice (since I see myself in between those two groups, much closer to the 
second). Which is why I have been asking these questions...

I'd be careful about presenting all those (amazing) ideas all at once to a 
new user though. 
If the idea is to reach a wider audience, maybe it makes more sense to go 
step by step.

   1. Present TW as a free, lightweight, simple, flexible tool for taking 
   notes and organize content of all shapes and sizes. 
   (Definitely mention that it is infinitely extensible, but not in a way 
   that would make it seem like it's a requirement to get into that.)
   2. The user should then be able to use TW to do *a lot* without going 
   under the hood
   3. However the option to go further/deeper is always there, available to 
   the user, as menus items. Ready for when they feel confident to try it out.

I think TW is already very close to that as it is.

I like the discussion about the tagline. It definitely helps in 
understanding a broader strategy.

"Private/Public Content Management System" might be a bit too heavy... 
"Powerful Portable Programmable Platform for People" sounds cool, but maybe 
too vague. I liked Tones' use of the term "DIY" in this context (I never 
realized how DIY tends to always refer to physical/material stuff, as 
opposed to digital).

As I explained above, I'd suggest avoiding overwhelming people.
Maybe something with a lighter tone, like:

   - TiddlyWiki: make sense of your information, in a way that makes sense 
   to you

I also like the metaphor of a garden, which I see a lot in discussions 
about granular approaches to content management. But maybe not as a 
tagline... It does tend to sound a bit to hippy for those who don't get it.


On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:44:03 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and 
> what type of people the project wants to reach?
>
> I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
> that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
> UI/workflow redesign. 
>
> In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
> estimate:
> (I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):
>
>- *What type of people uses TW? *(considering only those who 
>create/develop)
>(49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
>- *How do they use TW?* (considering only those who create/develop)
>(50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
>hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
>- *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2% 
>edit/view, 3% as viewers only?)
>- *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
>   - Non-coders (98.5%?)
>   - Casual coders (0.5%?)
>   - Coders (1%?)
>
> This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
> questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
> community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
> a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
> guesses, I partly used some data found online. )
>
> *Edit (2020/06/18): to account for view-only users*
>

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[tw5] Re: "You have unsaved changes..." - where?

[OGNSYA]

Cool! Good to know. 

Yeah the save icon was red.

I think it happened due to how the Stream plugin works (it allows editing a 
tiddler in View mode, then just closing it -  the changes are applied, but 
for some reason TW still needs a Save)

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 6:11:10 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm running my TW locally via TiddlyDesktop.
>
> I tried closing it, but got the "You have unsaved changes..." message.
> However I don't know what it refers to (I have no tiddlers open...).
>
> Is there some way I can check what are the unsaved changes?
>
> (I know I can just click Save on the sidebar. But I'd like to now what was 
> pending...)
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Deep stuff!

I like those ideas, how TW appeals to the "odd intellectual", and how 
open/free it is.

Though I'm not sure I understand the implications of bringing this up in 
this thread: do you mean that the TW community is not interested in having 
a more accessible layer (in addition to - not instead of - the existing 
"odd" one)?

About TiddlyWiki's description: "a non-linear personal web notebook"
Indeed, this is often the first thing a new user will read/consider.

I like that it starts with "non-linear", as this is a very user-friendly 
way to hint at how TW is fundamentally unique. 
I understand Tones' concern that this might end up covering the fact that 
TW can also be used in more linear ways...

Other parts of that description seem more problematic to me.
"personal" suggests it only supports single-user usage;
"web" suggests it's web-based (and requires an internet connection);
"notebook" might suggest it's just for note-taking (rather than more robust 
uses).

I know this is all explained in the Getting Started tiddler, but for 
someone who is considering dozens of software alternatives, if the short 
description already describes what they don't want, this might be enough 
for them to not continue further. Maybe a better starting point would 
be the description shown in the Getting Started tiddler: "a unique 
non-linear notebook for capturing, organising and sharing complex 
information". A shorter version could be: "*a unique non-linear fully 
customizable notebook*"


On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:44:03 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and 
> what type of people the project wants to reach?
>
> I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
> that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
> UI/workflow redesign. 
>
> In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
> estimate:
> (I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):
>
>- *What type of people uses TW? *(considering only those who 
>create/develop)
>(49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
>- *How do they use TW?* (considering only those who create/develop)
>(50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
>hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
>- *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2% 
>edit/view, 3% as viewers only?)
>- *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
>   - Non-coders (98.5%?)
>   - Casual coders (0.5%?)
>   - Coders (1%?)
>
> This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
> questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
> community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
> a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
> guesses, I partly used some data found online. )
>
> *Edit (2020/06/18): to account for view-only users*
>

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[tw5] "You have unsaved changes..." - where?

[OGNSYA]

I'm running my TW locally via TiddlyDesktop.

I tried closing it, but got the "You have unsaved changes..." message.
However I don't know what it refers to (I have no tiddlers open...).

Is there some way I can check what are the unsaved changes?

(I know I can just click Save on the sidebar. But I'd like to now what was 
pending...)

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Re: [tw5] Re: Tiddly Desktop bug

[OGNSYA]

I'm on Windows 10.

What happens to me is exactly what happens with Jake (OP).

The reason I did that a couple times is because I didn't understand how the 
TD taskbar icon worked. Clicking or double-clicking didn't work, which is 
why I just tried opening the application again. Now that I learned that 
right-click allows selecting the Wiki List, I don't get that anymore.

I did manage to Remove the "glitched" TW instance from my Wiki List. Not 
sure how (I think I just clicked Remove - though it doesn't always work).

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 12:11:19 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi OGNSYA, Jake,
>
> What operating system are you using?
>
> To be clear, are you both experiencing the same problem: that double 
> clicking the tray icon when TiddlyDesktop is running causes the wiki list 
> to become corrupted?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jeremy
>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com 
> https://jermolene.com
>
> On 17 Jun 2020, at 15:52, OGNSYA > 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I got the same thing a few times before.
>
> The way I've been avoiding it is to never try to open TD by 
> double-clicking the icon on the tray; Always right-click and select Wiki 
> List
>
> In mine I could remove that bugged out instance just by clicking Remove...
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:39:00 PM UTC+1, Jake wrote:
>>
>> [image: 2020-06-17_17-32-05.png]
>> I accidently pushed an icon to launch TiddlyDesktop application while one 
>> TiddlyDesktop was already running. The application freezed. I closed it, 
>> but after that I got "that" (pic related). I still can open other wikis, 
>> but I can not remove this thing. I tried deleting TiddlyDesktop folder 
>> completeley and start it from a newly unzipped directory, but this thing 
>> remains. How to clean it?
>>
> -- 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6153656f-2143-46cd-b796-3d9837145190o%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6153656f-2143-46cd-b796-3d9837145190o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Not arrogant at all! I'm learning :)

I understand TW isn't an entity on itself - I was just trying to simplify 
things.

Though I agree it makes sense to take one step back then, and perhaps ask:

Does the TW community have some sort of formal shared high-level roadmap?

(Of course, I'd imagine this existing *in parallel* to all the existing 
organic individual efforts, as these are extremely valuable)


On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 4:57:09 PM UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Breaking that up into two simpler questions:
>>
>  
>
>> *1. What are the things TW is trying to achieve?*
>>
>
> I doubt a TW can think! :-) 
>
> Beware of wrapping complex issues in simple imperatives! 
> There is NO TW trying to do anything. Only many variant users with uses.
>
> Actually I think opening up WHAT you imply in that sentence is a start of 
> a research project.
> IMO you not seeing that clearly enough!
>
> My arrogant 2 cents.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
 

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[tw5] Re: [preview] UI tweaks and doodads

[OGNSYA]

Nice! That does look much slicker than the default editing experience in TW.

Is the title field also directly editable?
This is one thing I miss in TW - to have more flexibility in editing the 
title of a tiddler.
I understand that this is due to the role Title has as a tiddler's unique 
identifier.

Still, from the user's perspective, I'd like to be able to edit/adjust 
title as easily as I can any other field in a tiddler.

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 3:16:14 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Over the last couple of years, I have accumulated a fair few UI tweaks and 
> changes that are in use in different wikis according to my requirements. A 
> lot of it is tightly integrated with the theme and other features, and thus 
> difficult to separate and share. However, there is a subset related to 
> editing that is easier to isolate and might prove interesting for others.
>
> Here is a preview. ( all editing happens via the view template. )
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VAQ6MeLQr3VQrVDd0kzaFJHigSYZC_Wl/view
>
> This consists of a series of distinct ad hoc changes over time, rather 
> than being driven by a considered and unified vision. So there are some 
> rough edges, a few known bugs and a lot of room for improvement. 
>
> If it is of interest, I'll separate it out and document the different 
> parts and post a file. It wont be something I would recommend for others to 
> start using in anger, but rather something to build upon or be inspired by.
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Hi all!

Tones:
My idea is to get a really broad idea of the demographics. Nothing as 
precise as pet types :)
If we did find that most TW's are about turtles, maybe that would help 
understanding how to make TW more flexible.

About trying to actually measure users/usage:
It seems very realistic to simply have some sort of permanent poll online, 
and link to it from TW's download page (so people see it when first 
downloading, and periodically as they update it). Most TW users tend to be 
passionate about it, and would probably be happy to share how they use it. 

Mark: 
Good insight regarding Linux use. I agree it suggests techy-ness
In general, I think its safe to say that most TW users are somewhat tech 
inclined.

Which brings me to the next question: what is TW's goal?

Breaking that up into two simpler questions:
*1. What are the things TW is trying to achieve?*
*2. What is the priority of each of these things?*

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did find some hints here and there 
about what these could be (from reading the website, articles/posts, 
watching videos etc.), but nothing too solid (and certainly nothing too 
recent). 

>From what I could gather (as a relative newbie) is that TW's objective is, 
first and foremost, to provide a flexible and powerful platform for 
note-taking and knowledge management. There also seems to be a desire to 
make this accessible to a broader audience (for example, by offering a less 
overwhelming initial experience for new users, and making the whole UI/UX 
more intuitive and modern), however this seems to be much lower in the 
agenda.

Would love to know answers from the more experienced TW on the questions 
above  (or at least comments on my guess above)

To be clear, my goal in asking these things is to understand TW. If any of 
my questions/comments sound critical in any way, I apologize. I certainly 
have my own opinions/wishes of what TW is and could be, but these are all 
still very raw and uninformed.

I also think having these things clearly defined (and publicly stated) 
could help the community (and newcomers) better understand what TW is (and 
wants to be) all about.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:44:03 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and 
> what type of people the project wants to reach?
>
> I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
> that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
> UI/workflow redesign. 
>
> In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
> estimate:
> (I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):
>
>- *What type of people uses TW? *(considering only those who 
>create/develop)
>(49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
>- *How do they use TW?* (considering only those who create/develop)
>(50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
>hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
>- *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2% 
>edit/view, 3% as viewers only?)
>- *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
>   - Non-coders (98.5%?)
>   - Casual coders (0.5%?)
>   - Coders (1%?)
>
> This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
> questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
> community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
> a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
> guesses, I partly used some data found online. )
>
> *Edit (2020/06/18): to account for view-only users*
>

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[tw5] Re: What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

Thank you for all the replies - very informative and helpful stuff!

I appreciate the amazing individual examples/cases Alex shared. I also 
agree with Tones that the project could greatly benefit from having an 
opt-in centralized directory of public TW's.

What I'm suggesting in this thread is a bit different from that though. I'm 
suggesting to look at the big picture instead - numbers and statistics.

Indeed, TW doesn't lend itself well for analytics. A poll could be helpful. 
About analytics, I agree with TT that this should be kept separate from the 
software itself, to make it very clear for all users that TW has no "online 
component" (unless this is explicitly set up).

This is not the focus of this thread though. I think that, for the purpose 
of getting a general idea of TW usage, an informal discussion/poll within 
the existing TW community could suffice (stats like the ones shared by 
PMario should definitely be considered as well).

As I mentioned, the point of doing this would be mainly to better (though 
not accurately) inform next steps in bringing TW to a wider audience, such 
as the discussions going on about the website, and the UI. (By the way, I 
agree with Birthe that this should never mean removing functionality).

For example, if we find that most TW users are tech-savvy, and see no need 
to expand to a more general audience, then the Getting Started page is fine 
as it is (and this thread can be abandoned). On the other hand, if there is 
desire to attract a broader audience, then that should be dealt with, as 
well as improvements in the UI, and a more modern editing experience (and 
this thread can be helpful for understanding who to target, and how).

I updated my original post based on Tone's suggestion, to consider 
view-only users (and reworded parts of it to make it clear it refers only 
to users who create/develop). All numbers there are just my initial 
estimates, so please suggest changes. If enough people contribute and/or 
think these stats can be useful, I'd by happy to turn them into some nice 
graphs to help visualize them better.


On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:44:03 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and 
> what type of people the project wants to reach?
>
> I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
> that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
> UI/workflow redesign. 
>
> In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
> estimate:
> (I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):
>
>- *What type of people uses TW? *(considering only those who 
>create/develop)
>(49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
>- *How do they use TW?* (considering only those who create/develop)
>(50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
>hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
>- *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2% 
>edit/view, 3% as viewers only?)
>- *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
>   - Non-coders (98.5%?)
>   - Casual coders (0.5%?)
>   - Coders (1%?)
>
> This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
> questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
> community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
> a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
> guesses, I partly used some data found online. )
>
> *Edit (2020/06/18): to account for view-only users*
>

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[tw5] Re: Improvements to "GettingStarted"

[OGNSYA]

I started this discussion, which I think would be helpful to figure out who 
is TW's audience (current and potential).
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/X3op3S7apYk

That could then inform the UX for newcomers

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 12:01:46 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Rizwan Ishak has recently submitted some improvements to the appearance 
> and usability of the “GettingStarted” tiddler:
>
> * Conventional checkboxes for filtering by operating system or browser
> * Clearer styling of each panel
> * More prominent download button
> * Panels now operate as links, instead of transcluding the target tiddler 
> within the GettingStarted tiddler
>
> See below for a screenshot.
>
> The changes are now live at https://tiddlywiki.com/
>
> In the GitHub ticket we’ve also discussed some possible further 
> improvements:
>
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/4640
>
> Feedback and suggestions welcome,
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>

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[tw5] What is TiddlyWiki's demographic, both current and intended?

[OGNSYA]

I'm curious to know what type of people uses TiddlyWiki currently, and what 
type of people the project wants to reach?

I believe that discussing this might help inform many of the conversations 
that have been going on, such as the Getting Started page, and the 
UI/workflow redesign. 

In case this is not known, here are a few possible guide questions to help 
estimate:
(I included an initial answer in all of them, just as a starting point):

   - *What type of people uses TW?* 
   (49% coders, 49% casual coders, 2% non-coders?)
   - *How do they use TW?* (compared to TW's full potential)
   (50% very basic usage, 30% uses several features/plugins, 15% 
   hack/develop plugins, 5% experts?)
   - *What proportion of internet users use TW on a frequent basis?* (2-5%?)
   - *How many internet users are coders? *(in general, regardless of TW)
  - Non-coders (98.5%?)
  - Casual coders (0.5%?)
  - Coders (1%?)
   
This is intentionally very simplified, especially because most of these 
questions can't be answered objectively. Regardless, knowing the 
community's perception of them is already very useful. This is meant to be 
a first draft. Please feel free to correct/suggest changes. (For the 
guesses, I partly used some data found online. )

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[tw5] Re: Tiddly Desktop bug

[OGNSYA]

I got the same thing a few times before.

The way I've been avoiding it is to never try to open TD by double-clicking 
the icon on the tray; Always right-click and select Wiki List

In mine I could remove that bugged out instance just by clicking Remove...


On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:39:00 PM UTC+1, Jake wrote:
>
> [image: 2020-06-17_17-32-05.png]
> I accidently pushed an icon to launch TiddlyDesktop application while one 
> TiddlyDesktop was already running. The application freezed. I closed it, 
> but after that I got "that" (pic related). I still can open other wikis, 
> but I can not remove this thing. I tried deleting TiddlyDesktop folder 
> completeley and start it from a newly unzipped directory, but this thing 
> remains. How to clean it?
>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Thanks @saq 

I just realized we sent almost the same thing at the same time :)


On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 12:40:32 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> If importance is in the range 0-10 and whole numbers only, the following 
> will do what you want though it is not very elegant:
>
> [importance[5]] [importance[6]] [importance[7]] [importance[8]] 
> [importance[9]] [importance[10]]
>
> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 1:11:20 PM UTC+2, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> This is usually done with nested lists.
>>
>> What is the numerical range for importance? With a limited set of values 
>> there are other ways to approach this
>>
>> Is it 0-10 and whole numbers only?
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

The range is quite limited indeed (0-10, whole), so adding this to my 
filter works:
+[importance[5]] [importance[6]] [importance[7]] [importance[8]] [importance
[9]] [importance[10]]

It just feels very messy. Also, I'll probably want to do more complex 
comparisons in the future...

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 12:11:20 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> This is usually done with nested lists.
>
> What is the numerical range for importance? With a limited set of values 
> there are other ways to approach this
>
> Is it 0-10 and whole numbers only?
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Funny thing is that in the process of figuring that out I managed to 
implement by myself a cool real-time filter for my table.
I thought this would take ages to do.

Meanwhile, I can't figure out how to implement this thing I thought would 
be very simple (have a filter that outputs only tiddlers where a field is 
within a certain numerical range).

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:47:58 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> That works, thanks!
>
> Could it be all done within the filter?
> I want to use it as a filter for a TiddlyTables table. I think I can only 
> configure a filter there. (see image attached)
>
> Thanks for explaining things to me. I did read Eric's email. But I'm a 
> beginner in TW , and not a strong coder (I can do very simple JS/HTML), so 
> the language is still quite overwhelming to me.
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:06:04 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> <$list filter="[has[importance]]">
>>
>> {{{ [{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]then{!!title}] }}}
>>
>> 
>>
>> I also recommend you re-read what Eric has explained above regarding 
>> brackets in filters.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:41:26 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Saq.
>>>
>>> I tried your suggestion and it did the filtering, however the output 
>>> doesn't seem to be the actual tiddler list.
>>>
>>> First, here's a simpler example that works for me:
>>> <$list filter="[importance[5]]"><$view field="title"/>
>>>
>>> This correctly outputs a list of all tiddlers with *importance* field 
>>> equal to 5.
>>> Tiddler A
>>> Tiddler B
>>> Tiddler D
>>> Tiddler G
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Below, my attempt to show all tiddlers with *importance* equal or 
>>> greater than 5, based on the code you suggested:
>>> <$list filter="[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]"><$view 
>>> field="title"/>
>>>
>>> This returns a list of numbers, corresponding to the importance field, 
>>> for each tiddler.
>>> 8
>>> 10
>>> 6
>>> 5
>>> 8
>>> (etc...)
>>>
>>> That is actually correct, considering it's only showing numbers 5 and 
>>> above. However I'd like the output to be the tiddlers themselves (as in my 
>>> simple example).
>>> I'm probably doing something wrong. I just don't know what..
>>>
>>> I also tried this:
>>> <$list 
>>> filter="[importance[[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5"><$view 
>>> field="title"/>
>>>
>>> But it returns:
>>> Filter error: Syntax error in filter expression
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 2:40:53 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> try [get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>>
>>>> this assumes you want to compare a field with name importance
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:07:28 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that Eric. 
>>>>> For some reason it didn't work for me...
>>>>>
>>>>> This simple case works, for showing all tiddlers with importance set 
>>>>> as 5:
>>>>> (note I changed the field name from *priority* to *importance*)
>>>>> [importance[5]]
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried this, for showing all tiddlers with importance 5 or higher: 
>>>>> [importance[{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]]
>>>>>
>>>>> I also tried just this:
>>>>> [{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 11:33:20 AM UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:04:46 AM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks! I did see that, but couldn't figure out how to actually use 
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> Let's say I want to filter only tiddlers where the custom field 
>>>>>>> *priority* is 5 or greater.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give this a try: 
>>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that, in filter syntax, you use *single* brackets around 
>>>>>> references,
>>>>>> and except for the outermost square brackets around the whole filter 
>>>>>> run,
>>>>>> the brackets are part of the reference itself, where
>>>>>> *[...] is for literal values, {...} is for field values, and <...> is 
>>>>>> for variables*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, for example, in addition to the above syntax for comparing with a 
>>>>>> literal value of "5",
>>>>>> you could compare with a value stored in another field:
>>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq{!!minimum}]
>>>>>> or with a value from a variable:
>>>>>> <$vars minimum="5">
>>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hope this helps,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> enjoy,
>>>>>> -e
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

For 1: ESC should work to cancel focus on a node.

Did you try it in the demo site? 


On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 6:07:04 PM UTC+1, Glenn McLelland wrote:
>
> Love this new plugin, great job Saq!
>
> Few suggestions/questions:
>
> 1. Would it be possible to hit the Escape key to cancel the focus of 
> stream item?  You said earlier that you couldn't make it where you could 
> click away to remove the focus, maybe hitting the Escape key would be 
> alternate solution?
>
> 2. Is it possible to hide the stream items from searches?  In your example 
> site, if I search for "Roadmap", I will see lots of search results.  I'm 
> not sure if this is possible since they are separate tiddlers?  You could 
> prefix them with $:/ to hide them, but I'm not sure how you would search 
> the content of each stream item?
>
> 3. Maybe you could create a new hierarchical tiddler button similar to how 
> the Markdown plugin does?  Some people may only want to use the Streams 
> feature on certain types of tiddlers like a "Streams" tiddler or 
> "Hierarchical tiddler?"
>
> [image: new-button.jpg]
>
>
> A small icon like this may work:
>
> [image: hierarchy icon at DuckDuckGo 2020-06-16 12-03-46.jpg]
>
> or
>
> [image: fontawesome.jpg]
>
>
>
>
> Could you make the bullet hit target bigger when you hover over a bullet?  
> Similar to workflowy.com?  When you hover a bullet, it shows a larger 
> circle around the bullet making it easier to click.
>
> [image: workflowy.jpg]
> Kind regards,
> Glenn
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Thanks! Yeah that was quite a minor one. Didn't bother me much. I just 
thought I'd report it since I found it.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:17:51 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> I've pushed an update that should address that bug. I suspect we will find 
> a few more of these until I get the chance to do a comprehensive code 
> review, one is really needed after the major refactoring I did to rename 
> fields.
>
> Saq
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:54:02 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> I just tested again in your demo 
>> <https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html> and it actually happens 
>> there too.
>> Please see image attached.
>> CTRL+down doesn't work for going from node A to A1 or from B to B1 (it 
>> works for all other operations).
>> Let me know if you can't reproduce it, or if you want me to do any 
>> further tests
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 2:39:06 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> @OGNSYA in order to try to investigate that potential bug I will need 
>>> either:
>>>
>>>- specific steps to re-create that bug in my demo
>>>OR
>>>- a file in which I can see that bug
>>>
>>> Is that problem happening in all streams? Or only in one specific 
>>> tiddler?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 12:40:42 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Saq.
>>>>
>>>> *Here's a very specific bug I'm getting *, which doesn't happen in 
>>>> your website (my setup is TiddlyDesktop, with Stroll). 
>>>> Navigating using CTRL+Down doesn't work when the next item is a child 
>>>> (ie. indented).
>>>> Otherwise everything else works (including CTRL+Down when the next item 
>>>> is a parent).
>>>>
>>>> *And a suggestion/request*: when breaking a node in two, by pressing 
>>>> ENTER, could the caret (the text cursor) be moved to the *start* of 
>>>> the new node (instead of to the end)? To me that would be the most 
>>>> intuitive. It would be particularly helpful when manually breaking up 
>>>> longer texts.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 3:52:13 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've pushed an update that fixes the bug with drag and drop. It's 
>>>>> something that crept in when I recently refactored to change field names 
>>>>> and plugin name.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had a few things come up that will limit the time I have 
>>>>> available to work on this in the short term. So for now, I am focusing on 
>>>>> bug reports only.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Will revisit other feedback once I am able to. In the meantime please 
>>>>> feel free to keep the feedback coming.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Saq
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:43:41 AM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Saq, thanks for addressing all our questions!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Single-click edit*: Got it! I didn't realize external links 
>>>>>> couldn't be clicked. I thought they'd behave the same as [[internal 
>>>>>> links]], which could be clicked in the initial (single-click) version of 
>>>>>> your plugin. I didn't know there was this distinction. (Maybe offer 
>>>>>> users a 
>>>>>> single-click option, which requires CTRL-click for links?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Autocomplete*: I also ran into the autocomplete issue with 
>>>>>> edit-comptext. Thank you for the pull request 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Direct editing*: In my previous email I suggest: *"Have you 
>>>>>> considered structuring it so that text can be directly edited at any 
>>>>>> level 
>>>>>> (ie., without needing to go into Edit mode)? Currently you can only edit 
>>>>>> child notes directly, but not the content of the node itself. This would 
>>>>>> make the editing experience consistent in all levels of hierarchy"*
>>>>>> To be clear, I don't refer to WYSIWYG here. This would be just to 
>>>>>> keep the experience consistent for the end user.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Possible bug?*: I didn't see any reference to this anywhere, so I 
>>>>>> thought I'd mention. I'm not able

[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

That works, thanks!

Could it be all done within the filter?
I want to use it as a filter for a TiddlyTables table. I think I can only 
configure a filter there. (see image attached)

Thanks for explaining things to me. I did read Eric's email. But I'm a 
beginner in TW , and not a strong coder (I can do very simple JS/HTML), so 
the language is still quite overwhelming to me.


On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:06:04 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> <$list filter="[has[importance]]">
>
> {{{ [{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]then{!!title}] }}}
>
> 
>
> I also recommend you re-read what Eric has explained above regarding 
> brackets in filters.
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:41:26 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Saq.
>>
>> I tried your suggestion and it did the filtering, however the output 
>> doesn't seem to be the actual tiddler list.
>>
>> First, here's a simpler example that works for me:
>> <$list filter="[importance[5]]"><$view field="title"/>
>>
>> This correctly outputs a list of all tiddlers with *importance* field 
>> equal to 5.
>> Tiddler A
>> Tiddler B
>> Tiddler D
>> Tiddler G
>> etc.
>>
>> Below, my attempt to show all tiddlers with *importance* equal or 
>> greater than 5, based on the code you suggested:
>> <$list filter="[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]"><$view 
>> field="title"/>
>>
>> This returns a list of numbers, corresponding to the importance field, 
>> for each tiddler.
>> 8
>> 10
>> 6
>> 5
>> 8
>> (etc...)
>>
>> That is actually correct, considering it's only showing numbers 5 and 
>> above. However I'd like the output to be the tiddlers themselves (as in my 
>> simple example).
>> I'm probably doing something wrong. I just don't know what..
>>
>> I also tried this:
>> <$list 
>> filter="[importance[[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5"><$view 
>> field="title"/>
>>
>> But it returns:
>> Filter error: Syntax error in filter expression
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 2:40:53 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> try [get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>
>>> this assumes you want to compare a field with name importance
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:07:28 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that Eric. 
>>>> For some reason it didn't work for me...
>>>>
>>>> This simple case works, for showing all tiddlers with importance set as 
>>>> 5:
>>>> (note I changed the field name from *priority* to *importance*)
>>>> [importance[5]]
>>>>
>>>> I tried this, for showing all tiddlers with importance 5 or higher: 
>>>> [importance[{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]]
>>>>
>>>> I also tried just this:
>>>> [{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 11:33:20 AM UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:04:46 AM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks! I did see that, but couldn't figure out how to actually use 
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> Let's say I want to filter only tiddlers where the custom field 
>>>>>> *priority* is 5 or greater.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Give this a try: 
>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that, in filter syntax, you use *single* brackets around 
>>>>> references,
>>>>> and except for the outermost square brackets around the whole filter 
>>>>> run,
>>>>> the brackets are part of the reference itself, where
>>>>> *[...] is for literal values, {...} is for field values, and <...> is 
>>>>> for variables*
>>>>>
>>>>> So, for example, in addition to the above syntax for comparing with a 
>>>>> literal value of "5",
>>>>> you could compare with a value stored in another field:
>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq{!!minimum}]
>>>>> or with a value from a variable:
>>>>> <$vars minimum="5">
>>>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq]
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> hope this helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> enjoy,
>>>>> -e
>>>>>
>>>>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

I just tested again in your demo 
<https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html> and it actually happens 
there too.
Please see image attached.
CTRL+down doesn't work for going from node A to A1 or from B to B1 (it 
works for all other operations).
Let me know if you can't reproduce it, or if you want me to do any further 
tests


On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 2:39:06 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @OGNSYA in order to try to investigate that potential bug I will need 
> either:
>
>- specific steps to re-create that bug in my demo
>OR
>- a file in which I can see that bug
>
> Is that problem happening in all streams? Or only in one specific tiddler?
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 12:40:42 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Saq.
>>
>> *Here's a very specific bug I'm getting *, which doesn't happen in your 
>> website (my setup is TiddlyDesktop, with Stroll). 
>> Navigating using CTRL+Down doesn't work when the next item is a child 
>> (ie. indented).
>> Otherwise everything else works (including CTRL+Down when the next item 
>> is a parent).
>>
>> *And a suggestion/request*: when breaking a node in two, by pressing 
>> ENTER, could the caret (the text cursor) be moved to the *start* of the 
>> new node (instead of to the end)? To me that would be the most intuitive. 
>> It would be particularly helpful when manually breaking up longer texts.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 3:52:13 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> I've pushed an update that fixes the bug with drag and drop. It's 
>>> something that crept in when I recently refactored to change field names 
>>> and plugin name.
>>>
>>> I've had a few things come up that will limit the time I have available 
>>> to work on this in the short term. So for now, I am focusing on bug reports 
>>> only.
>>>
>>>  Will revisit other feedback once I am able to. In the meantime please 
>>> feel free to keep the feedback coming.
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Saq
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:43:41 AM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> @Saq, thanks for addressing all our questions!
>>>>
>>>> *Single-click edit*: Got it! I didn't realize external links couldn't 
>>>> be clicked. I thought they'd behave the same as [[internal links]], which 
>>>> could be clicked in the initial (single-click) version of your plugin. I 
>>>> didn't know there was this distinction. (Maybe offer users a single-click 
>>>> option, which requires CTRL-click for links?)
>>>>
>>>> *Autocomplete*: I also ran into the autocomplete issue with 
>>>> edit-comptext. Thank you for the pull request 
>>>>
>>>> *Direct editing*: In my previous email I suggest: *"Have you 
>>>> considered structuring it so that text can be directly edited at any level 
>>>> (ie., without needing to go into Edit mode)? Currently you can only edit 
>>>> child notes directly, but not the content of the node itself. This would 
>>>> make the editing experience consistent in all levels of hierarchy"*
>>>> To be clear, I don't refer to WYSIWYG here. This would be just to keep 
>>>> the experience consistent for the end user.
>>>>
>>>> *Possible bug?*: I didn't see any reference to this anywhere, so I 
>>>> thought I'd mention. I'm not able to CTRL or SHIFT drag a bullet (ie., 
>>>> Copy 
>>>> or Transclude) to another tiddler (nothing happens). I can only drag it 
>>>> directly - ie., Move. 
>>>>
>>>> Thanks! Streams is currently my favorite way to edit TW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:06:31 AM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding title autocomplete via the edit-comptext plugin, the problem 
>>>>> is that it replaces the default editor with another. Since Streams also 
>>>>> makes tweaks to the editor, it makes it difficult to combine the two.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've re-written parts of the edit-comptext plugin to tweak the core 
>>>>> editor and add the same autocomplete features to it instead of creating a 
>>>>> new editor. If these changes get merged by the developer, anyone with 
>>>>> that 
>>>>> plugin installed with automatically have title autocomplete in Streams.
>>>>> Pull request: https://github.com/snowgoon88/TW5-extendedit/pull/17
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone is having issues with node duplication after drag and drop, 
>>>>> please ensure that you have the latest version of Streams. There was a 
>>>>> bug 
>>>>> fix related to this some days ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Saq
>>>>>
>>>>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Thanks Saq.

I tried your suggestion and it did the filtering, however the output 
doesn't seem to be the actual tiddler list.

First, here's a simpler example that works for me:
<$list filter="[importance[5]]"><$view field="title"/>

This correctly outputs a list of all tiddlers with *importance* field equal 
to 5.
Tiddler A
Tiddler B
Tiddler D
Tiddler G
etc.

Below, my attempt to show all tiddlers with *importance* equal or greater 
than 5, based on the code you suggested:
<$list filter="[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]"><$view 
field="title"/>

This returns a list of numbers, corresponding to the importance field, for 
each tiddler.
8
10
6
5
8
(etc...)

That is actually correct, considering it's only showing numbers 5 and 
above. However I'd like the output to be the tiddlers themselves (as in my 
simple example).
I'm probably doing something wrong. I just don't know what..

I also tried this:
<$list 
filter="[importance[[get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5"><$view 
field="title"/>

But it returns:
Filter error: Syntax error in filter expression



On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 2:40:53 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> try [get[importance]compare:number:gteq[5]]
>
> this assumes you want to compare a field with name importance
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:07:28 PM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that Eric. 
>> For some reason it didn't work for me...
>>
>> This simple case works, for showing all tiddlers with importance set as 5:
>> (note I changed the field name from *priority* to *importance*)
>> [importance[5]]
>>
>> I tried this, for showing all tiddlers with importance 5 or higher: 
>> [importance[{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]]
>>
>> I also tried just this:
>> [{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 11:33:20 AM UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:04:46 AM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks! I did see that, but couldn't figure out how to actually use it.
>>>> Let's say I want to filter only tiddlers where the custom field 
>>>> *priority* is 5 or greater.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Give this a try: 
>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>>>
>>> Note that, in filter syntax, you use *single* brackets around references,
>>> and except for the outermost square brackets around the whole filter run,
>>> the brackets are part of the reference itself, where
>>> *[...] is for literal values, {...} is for field values, and <...> is 
>>> for variables*
>>>
>>> So, for example, in addition to the above syntax for comparing with a 
>>> literal value of "5",
>>> you could compare with a value stored in another field:
>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq{!!minimum}]
>>> or with a value from a variable:
>>> <$vars minimum="5">
>>> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq]
>>> 
>>>
>>> hope this helps,
>>>
>>> enjoy,
>>> -e
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Thanks for that Eric. 
For some reason it didn't work for me...

This simple case works, for showing all tiddlers with importance set as 5:
[importance[5]]

I tried this, for showing all tiddlers with importance 5 or higher: 
(note I changed the field name from *priority* to *importance*)
[importance[{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]]

I also tried just this:
[{!!importance}compare:number:gteq[5]]


On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 11:33:20 AM UTC+1, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:04:46 AM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Thanks! I did see that, but couldn't figure out how to actually use it.
>> Let's say I want to filter only tiddlers where the custom field 
>> *priority* is 5 or greater.
>>
>
> Give this a try: 
> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq[5]]
>
> Note that, in filter syntax, you use *single* brackets around references,
> and except for the outermost square brackets around the whole filter run,
> the brackets are part of the reference itself, where
> *[...] is for literal values, {...} is for field values, and <...> is for 
> variables*
>
> So, for example, in addition to the above syntax for comparing with a 
> literal value of "5",
> you could compare with a value stored in another field:
> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq{!!minimum}]
> or with a value from a variable:
> <$vars minimum="5">
> [{!!priority}compare:number:gteq]
> 
>
> hope this helps,
>
> enjoy,
> -e
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Thanks Saq.

*Here's a very specific bug I'm getting *, which doesn't happen in your 
website (my setup is TiddlyDesktop, with Stroll). 
Navigating using CTRL+Down doesn't work when the next item is a child (ie. 
indented).
Otherwise everything else works (including CTRL+Down when the next item is 
a parent).

*And a suggestion/request*: when breaking a node in two, by pressing ENTER, 
could the caret (the text cursor) be moved to the *start* of the new node 
(instead of to the end)? To me that would be the most intuitive. It would 
be particularly helpful when manually breaking up longer texts.

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 3:52:13 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> I've pushed an update that fixes the bug with drag and drop. It's 
> something that crept in when I recently refactored to change field names 
> and plugin name.
>
> I've had a few things come up that will limit the time I have available to 
> work on this in the short term. So for now, I am focusing on bug reports 
> only.
>
>  Will revisit other feedback once I am able to. In the meantime please 
> feel free to keep the feedback coming.
> Cheers,
>
> Saq
>
> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 11:43:41 AM UTC+2, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> @Saq, thanks for addressing all our questions!
>>
>> *Single-click edit*: Got it! I didn't realize external links couldn't be 
>> clicked. I thought they'd behave the same as [[internal links]], which 
>> could be clicked in the initial (single-click) version of your plugin. I 
>> didn't know there was this distinction. (Maybe offer users a single-click 
>> option, which requires CTRL-click for links?)
>>
>> *Autocomplete*: I also ran into the autocomplete issue with 
>> edit-comptext. Thank you for the pull request 
>>
>> *Direct editing*: In my previous email I suggest: *"Have you considered 
>> structuring it so that text can be directly edited at any level (ie., 
>> without needing to go into Edit mode)? Currently you can only edit child 
>> notes directly, but not the content of the node itself. This would make the 
>> editing experience consistent in all levels of hierarchy"*
>> To be clear, I don't refer to WYSIWYG here. This would be just to keep 
>> the experience consistent for the end user.
>>
>> *Possible bug?*: I didn't see any reference to this anywhere, so I 
>> thought I'd mention. I'm not able to CTRL or SHIFT drag a bullet (ie., Copy 
>> or Transclude) to another tiddler (nothing happens). I can only drag it 
>> directly - ie., Move. 
>>
>> Thanks! Streams is currently my favorite way to edit TW
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:06:31 AM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> Regarding title autocomplete via the edit-comptext plugin, the problem 
>>> is that it replaces the default editor with another. Since Streams also 
>>> makes tweaks to the editor, it makes it difficult to combine the two.
>>>
>>> I've re-written parts of the edit-comptext plugin to tweak the core 
>>> editor and add the same autocomplete features to it instead of creating a 
>>> new editor. If these changes get merged by the developer, anyone with that 
>>> plugin installed with automatically have title autocomplete in Streams.
>>> Pull request: https://github.com/snowgoon88/TW5-extendedit/pull/17
>>>
>>> If anyone is having issues with node duplication after drag and drop, 
>>> please ensure that you have the latest version of Streams. There was a bug 
>>> fix related to this some days ago.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Saq
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tables/Spreadsheet plugins?

[OGNSYA]

Thanks for the suggestions! 

I had checked out a couple of those, as well as the list being kept in 
Dynalist (though that is not a curated list; it's quite overwhelming for 
users looking for a simpler start in TW).


On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:29:12 PM UTC+1, OGNSYA wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a plugin for editing my tiddlers in a tables/spreadsheet 
> format.
>
> I found a few options online, and TiddlyTables 
> <http://tiddlytables.tiddlyspot.com/> seem to be the one that best fits 
> my needs.
>
> However if there is a more stable alternative, I'd prefer that.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions? (comments on TiddlyTables are also 
> welcome) 
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: I also did this more general post 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/9lXwAyWZDlc> asking 
> about how to proceed to find stable plugins (other than the official ones). 
> If anyone has comments on that (or advice on better ways/places to ask 
> about this sort of thing), it would be helpful too!
>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Thanks! I did see that, but couldn't figure out how to actually use it.
Let's say I want to filter only tiddlers where the custom field *priority* 
is 5 or greater.

This works, but it's messy: 
[priority[5]] [priority[6]] [priority[7]] [priority[8]] [priority[9]] [
priority[10]] +[!is[system]tag[My Tag]]

I understand that this, for example, returns 6, because 6 is greater than 
or equal to 5:
[[6]compare:number:gteq[5]]

However, I don't know how to use that in a filter 
As far as I understand, that first parameter should be a list of 
tiddlers... But then I'd be comparing the tiddler, not a specific field 
within it...
Which means I'd need to first test using only the value of that field, and 
then use that to filter.
I tried these, but none worked...

priority[[{{!!priority}}]compare:number:gteq[5]]
priority[[[{{!!priority}}]compare:number:gteq[5]]]
priority[[[field:priority]compare:number:gteq[5]]]

I figure there is probably a very simple solution to this that I'm missing.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 12:09:29 AM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> The "compare" operator can let you make numeric comparisons:
>
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#compare%20Operator
>
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 3:29:01 PM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> Perfect! Thank you.
>>
>> I did have the tiddler name as [[My Status]] in the custom field.
>> I was assuming that the tag field of a tiddler was simply a list of 
>> titles.
>> Since my custom field was also a list of titles, I assumed I could access 
>> it the same way.
>> I suppose it's not...
>>
>> Now I'm stuck trying to filter based on a number in a custom field called 
>> "priority".
>> I'd like to only show tiddlers with priority equal or greater than "5"
>> Can I do that in a filter?
>>
>> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:09:01 PM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> If "status" is a list of tiddler names, then any of the names in the 
>>> list that have spaces need to be like [[My Status]]. This is called a title 
>>> list. And you can't search directly with status[], because that method 
>>> only matches fields with a single value. Instead use the "contains" 
>>> operator, with the field status as a suffix. Like:
>>>
>>> [!is[system]tag[My Tag]contains:status[My Status]]
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 2:39:33 PM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to filter a list by my own custom field "Status", which is a 
>>>> list of tiddler names, but it only works if the value has no space in it.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my code (the tag part works fine):
>>>>
>>>> [!is[system]tag[My Tag]status[My Status]]
>>>>
>>>> If I remove the space from the "My Status" tiddler, and change the 
>>>> above to "MyStatus", it works.
>>>>
>>>> What am I doing wrong? 
>>>> Shouldn't this work the same as with tags?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

Perfect! Thank you.

I did have the tiddler name as [[My Status]] in the custom field.
I was assuming that the tag field of a tiddler was simply a list of titles.
Since my custom field was also a list of titles, I assumed I could access 
it the same way.
I suppose it's not...

Now I'm stuck trying to filter based on a number in a custom field called 
"priority".
I'd like to only show tiddlers with priority equal or greater than "5"
Can I do that in a filter?

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:09:01 PM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
> If "status" is a list of tiddler names, then any of the names in the list 
> that have spaces need to be like [[My Status]]. This is called a title 
> list. And you can't search directly with status[], because that method 
> only matches fields with a single value. Instead use the "contains" 
> operator, with the field status as a suffix. Like:
>
> [!is[system]tag[My Tag]contains:status[My Status]]
>
> HTH
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 2:39:33 PM UTC-7, OGNSYA wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to filter a list by my own custom field "Status", which is a 
>> list of tiddler names, but it only works if the value has no space in it.
>>
>> Here's my code (the tag part works fine):
>>
>> [!is[system]tag[My Tag]status[My Status]]
>>
>> If I remove the space from the "My Status" tiddler, and change the above 
>> to "MyStatus", it works.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong? 
>> Shouldn't this work the same as with tags?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Filter by Custom Field containing Tiddler name with spaces in it?

[OGNSYA]

I'm trying to filter a list by my own custom field "Status", which is a 
list of tiddler names, but it only works if the value has no space in it.

Here's my code (the tag part works fine):

[!is[system]tag[My Tag]status[My Status]]

If I remove the space from the "My Status" tiddler, and change the above to 
"MyStatus", it works.

What am I doing wrong? 
Shouldn't this work the same as with tags?

Thanks!

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[tw5] Tables/Spreadsheet plugins?

[OGNSYA]

I'm looking for a plugin for editing my tiddlers in a tables/spreadsheet 
format.

I found a few options online, and TiddlyTables 
 seem to be the one that best fits my 
needs.

However if there is a more stable alternative, I'd prefer that.

Does anyone have any suggestions? (comments on TiddlyTables are also 
welcome) 

Thanks!

PS: I also did this more general post 
 asking 
about how to proceed to find stable plugins (other than the official ones). 
If anyone has comments on that (or advice on better ways/places to ask 
about this sort of thing), it would be helpful too!

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[tw5] Re: Contextual Backlinks, Stroll, and Stream

[OGNSYA]

I'm using Stroll with Stream.
Indeed autocomplete is currently not working.

Backlinks appear like David said. They're just transclusions, so they are 
not editable. Also, only the node is shown (ie., not in context).

I agree it would be extremely powerful to have the features mentioned by 
vrpape.

One thing I miss in TW core is an alternative way of transcluding a tiddler 
which shows it as a live editable tiddler, like Stream does for example. 
But even in Stream there's a limitation to this. For example, if I want a 
certain node to appear as editable in multiple tiddlers, I need to manually 
edit the stream field within a tiddler. It does work though, so perhaps 
it's a possible enhancement for that plugin.


On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:09:00 AM UTC+1, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi vrpape,
>
> Thanks for the kind words. 
>
> Stroll displays under a tiddler, as a link or a transclusion, every 
> tiddler that backlinks to that tiddler. So if one were to combine Stroll 
> and Stream, if that can even be done (at the very least, at the moment, I 
> know Stream breaks the auto-complete), any "node" (or line) in Stream that 
> backlinks to a tiddler will display under the tiddler it backlinks to.
>
> Keep in mind that EVERY node in Stream is a separate tiddler, so Stream is 
> not for creating a huge "second brain" wiki. It looks like it will make 
> more sense for smaller projects. 
>
> On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 3:12:16 PM UTC-5 vrpape...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I think the thing that roam does that none of the competitors that have 
>> arisen can do yet is this: when backlink references are displayed, they 
>> display the entire subtree of the node that references the page. For 
>> example, if I have [[Page 1]] and [[Page 2]], and on Page 1 I write the 
>> following: 
>>
>>
>>- stuff
>>   - [[page 2]]
>>  - more stuff
>>  - even more stuff
>> - stuff stuff
>>  - extra stuff
>>- stuff
>>
>> Then on page 2 at the bottom the following will be displayed: 
>>
>>
>>- [[page 2]]
>>   - more stuff
>>   - even more stuff
>>  - stuff stuff
>>   
>> (Though with the stuff under the [[page 2]] node collapsed). This 
>> essentially allows *writing to one page directly from another page*. For 
>> example, I can link [[Page 2]] from my daily notes, and write everything I 
>> want to appear on Page 2 under that bullet, and it's as if I'm writing it 
>> on Page 2 (in fact the content is even editable from Page 2). This is what 
>> enables the sort of workflow Andy Matuschak describes here: 
>> https://twitter.com/andy_matuschak/status/1190102757430063106, i.e. 
>> building up pages implicitly by linking to them a lot, even before they 
>> have anything properly on them. Even the contextual backlinks that Stroll 
>> provides don't allow for this level of automatic transclusion. 
>>
>> However, Saq's new Stream plugin might change this. I'm not sure how 
>> Stroll and Stream work under the hood. But if Stroll's backlinks feature 
>> had an option to essentially transclude the backlinks as a Stream, then 
>> precisely this functionality would be achieved. I don't have the technical 
>> chops to make this work right now, but I wanted to bring it to the 
>> attention of those who do (@David Gifford, @Saq), in case somebody wanted 
>> to do it at some point. In any case, I think the Stroll and Stream plugins 
>> are amazing already (thanks to Saq and David for all their hard work), and 
>> just wanted to point out this way in which they could be even more amazing 
>> if they were brought together. 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Max size of single html wiki file?

[OGNSYA]

I had the same concern. What I did is create thousands of tiddlers (you can 
do this programatically), and then do performance tests. It's very 
impressive how TW can deal with huge amounts of content. I even added an 
entire 400-page book in 1 tiddler. It takes a bit longer to open than other 
tiddlers, of course (2-3 seconds). But still totally acceptable.

Of course, you can have more than one TW as well. For example, maybe you 
have your personal TW, but then a TW just for a specific large project.

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 10:14:56 AM UTC+1, Jake wrote:
>
> It's just I'm editing it for less than a month ang got from initial 2.2mb 
> to 3mb. I'm keeping all the images in separate folders and don't import 
> them in wiki to keep the size to the minimun. Of course I'm far from having 
> size limitations so far, but would Tiddly Desktop for example handle wiki 
> file properly if it reaches 150-200mb size? Just wondering for the future 
> to figure out how soon I would better start splitting it into smaller 
> separate themed wikis.
>

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[tw5] How to identify the most stable/reliable plugins? (non-official)

[OGNSYA]

I realize one of the great things about TW is the amount and variety of 
different plugins. On the other hand, this can be quite confusing and 
overwhelming for new users. Often there are multiple plugins that do the 
same thing in different ways, or even with intersecting functionalities. 
I'd like to be able to identify the plugins that are the most stable and 
reliable.

I know this is what the "oficial plugins" list is for, however there's 
obviously a limit to how many plugins can be maintained there (especially 
considering the huge amount of amazing plugins out there).

Maybe there could be some sort of community curated list with plugins that, 
although are not "official", are considered to be the most stable/reliable?

Please note that I'm not suggesting some plugins are "better" than others. 
This would just be a useful resource for new users who aren't yet 
comfortable experimenting.

For example, I'd like to be able to view/edit certain fields of my tiddlers 
via tables/spreadsheets. I found a few plugins that do that (Gifford's list 
was very helpful ), and 
became particularly interested in this one: TiddlyTables 


It seems amazing, however if there is an alternative that is considered to 
be more stable/reliable, I'd consider that instead...

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[tw5] Re: Improvements to "GettingStarted"

[OGNSYA]

Looks great!

I agree that a Wizard could be helpful, since many new users struggle with 
the whole concept of what TW is.
Regardless, I think the categories on the left should better reflect the 
variety of options. I use TiddlyDesktop, for example - shouldn't this be in 
a "Desktop" category?  


On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 12:01:46 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Rizwan Ishak has recently submitted some improvements to the appearance 
> and usability of the “GettingStarted” tiddler:
>
> * Conventional checkboxes for filtering by operating system or browser
> * Clearer styling of each panel
> * More prominent download button
> * Panels now operate as links, instead of transcluding the target tiddler 
> within the GettingStarted tiddler
>
> See below for a screenshot.
>
> The changes are now live at https://tiddlywiki.com/
>
> In the GitHub ticket we’ve also discussed some possible further 
> improvements:
>
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/4640
>
> Feedback and suggestions welcome,
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

@Saq, thanks for addressing all our questions!

*Single-click edit*: Got it! I didn't realize external links couldn't be 
clicked. I thought they'd behave the same as [[internal links]], which 
could be clicked in the initial (single-click) version of your plugin. I 
didn't know there was this distinction. (Maybe offer users a single-click 
option, which requires CTRL-click for links?)

*Autocomplete*: I also ran into the autocomplete issue with edit-comptext. 
Thank you for the pull request 

*Direct editing*: In my previous email I suggest: *"Have you considered 
structuring it so that text can be directly edited at any level (ie., 
without needing to go into Edit mode)? Currently you can only edit child 
notes directly, but not the content of the node itself. This would make the 
editing experience consistent in all levels of hierarchy"*
To be clear, I don't refer to WYSIWYG here. This would be just to keep the 
experience consistent for the end user.

*Possible bug?*: I didn't see any reference to this anywhere, so I thought 
I'd mention. I'm not able to CTRL or SHIFT drag a bullet (ie., Copy or 
Transclude) to another tiddler (nothing happens). I can only drag it 
directly - ie., Move. 

Thanks! Streams is currently my favorite way to edit TW


On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:06:31 AM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Regarding title autocomplete via the edit-comptext plugin, the problem is 
> that it replaces the default editor with another. Since Streams also makes 
> tweaks to the editor, it makes it difficult to combine the two.
>
> I've re-written parts of the edit-comptext plugin to tweak the core editor 
> and add the same autocomplete features to it instead of creating a new 
> editor. If these changes get merged by the developer, anyone with that 
> plugin installed with automatically have title autocomplete in Streams.
> Pull request: https://github.com/snowgoon88/TW5-extendedit/pull/17
>
> If anyone is having issues with node duplication after drag and drop, 
> please ensure that you have the latest version of Streams. There was a bug 
> fix related to this some days ago.
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Been testing it for a few days. Works great!


   - I'd rather click once to edit though, like it was before (instead of 
   needing to double-click). Do you plan on adding this as an option? If not, 
   can I customize this?


   - Have you considered structuring it so that text can be directly edited 
   at *any* level (ie., without needing to go into Edit mode)? Currently 
   you can only edit child notes directly, but not the content of the node 
   itself. This would make the editing experience consistent in all levels of 
   hierarchy (more similar to how Roam does it, for example).


On Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 10:44:31 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Edited (09/06/2020)
> This is in active development. Back up your wiki regularly.
>
> Demo:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html
>
> *Code:*
> https://github.com/saqimtiaz/streams
>
> ---
>
> When I'm under the weather I tend to prototype. Spent some time reworking 
> code from my eternally in progress task manager in an attempt to make it 
> more general purpose, as a bullet list note taking tool that may be of 
> utility to others. 
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SB06s13tj8P3cC2UewnfzXf08UQ7jwYK/view?usp=drivesdk
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLESm6OIfHsScwYePGOs5ce3o3wpQ0CO/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> - everything except the dragging is keyboard driven
> - each bullet is a separate tiddler. Lots of different pros and cons to 
> this approach, but was ideal for a task manager.
> - this is all in wikitext, no extra JS.
>
>  Will post the file in the near future, a bit more clean up needed. Don't 
> expect a final product, but rather a pattern to follow that would hopefully 
> help anyone wanting to implement similar workflow. 
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

@Saq, it's an amazing plug-in! It does open many possibilities. I'll share 
my ideas about that independently in the future, as you suggested.

PS: I agree with both @Reets suggestions below!

On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 12:59:17 PM UTC+1, Reet Pandher wrote:
>
> This feels more natural and better. The previous version wouldn't let me 
> click the github link in the roadmap tiddler, it would just enter the edit 
> area.
>
>
> Also, small suggestions: 
> 1. I feel like visually it would look better to have a single line (maybe 
> spanning the complete tiddler?) show up instead of double when we create a 
> bullet.
> 2. Once we click outside the edit area it should close the edit area. It 
> would feel more natural.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Friday, June 5, 2020 at 4:17:23 PM UTC+5:30, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> For evaluation: a version that requires double click to edit:
>>
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/bullets-dblclick.html
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

@Saq: Would be great to be able to simply click Create New Stream, and then 
just start typing (ie., the cursor would already be in place in the first 
tiddler).

There could be a text (in light grey) saying "Start typing..." there, just 
to prompt the user.

This new Stream tiddler could look completely empty to the user - 
practically a white box (except for the aforementioned prompt).

Hovering on it with the mouse would reveal the menus, as well as info such 
as date, time etc.
---
Like I mentioned before, this newly created Stream tiddler wouldn't even 
need to have a title (ie., a big text on top). If the user wants, they add 
it (as a tiddler in the stream; it would be one of the types). A tiddler's 
unique name (a property currently called "title" within TW) would always 
exist, and could be dynamically defined based on whatever makes more sense.

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 3:18:27 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @David: what would be the workflow?
>
> - a button to create a new stream tiddler
> - user clicks button
> - tiddler opens in edit mode, user gives it a title and saves
> - then the user sees the UI for streams?
>
> That's where I was early on in development and it is as simple as a button 
> with an action widget, but I find that user story to not be very compelling 
> or user friendly. Starting in edit mode, there is a realistic expectation 
> to be able to start writing your content. If we start in view mode, then 
> the user has to edit the tiddler later to rename it. 
>
> There is no reason why this can't be an alternative workflow that we 
> offer, but I welcome any suggestions that would make it more intuitive.
>
> Overall, the question of how the user gets started with a new "stream 
> tiddler" is one that I am not totally satisfied that we have a good answer 
> for yet.
> The options discussed:
> - via view template with a configurable filter
> - a new tiddler type (basically based on a field) via a button
> - a macro that users type into a tiddler where they want the streams 
> interface.
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
> On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 3:47:41 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> With regard to limiting to certain tiddlers, have you thought about 
>> creating this as a new tiddler type?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:43 AM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 1:16:09 PM UTC+2, Tony K wrote:

 Saq once again this is wonderful

 is there an easy way to have it only on some tiddlers ? maybe a widget 
 <$bulletTiddler /> or something similar

>>>
>>> You can try 
>>> {{||$:/plugins/sq/bullets/bullet-list-template}} 
>>>
>>> I am not the biggest fan of having to add text to a tiddler body to 
>>> trigger the UI, so I haven't put a lot of thought in that direction. This 
>>> could easily be wrapped in an easier to type macro though. <>
>>>
>>> Also there is a filter you can use to control on which tiddlers the UI 
>>> to add bullets appears.
>>> $:/config/sq/bullets/bullet-enable-filter
>>>
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>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

On Thursday, June 4, 2020 at 3:09:20 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @Ognsya thanks for the feedback, comments below:
>
>
>>- I wonder if an abandoned empty tiddler should be removed/deleted 
>>automatically? Would make it cleaner.
>>
>> Hitting "escape" in an empty tiddler already deletes it. Beyond that I 
> prefer to err on the side of not deleting data, too much room for 
> accidents. 
>

I understand. It's definitely not priority. It would just be a way to give 
non-keyboard users the same flexibility as keyboard users (allowing the 
user to change their mind after starting a new tiddler, but before writing 
anything). Currently you have ESC delete the tiddler only if it's empty (to 
make sure you're not deleting important stuff). So would be a similar 
check, but done once focus leaves the text field.
 

>
>>- There is no way to drag a child left (equivalent of SHIFT-TAB). In 
>>order to do that via dragging, one needs to move it elsewhere, then bring 
>>it back.
>>
>> There is, you need to drag it to the left and below its siblings. Which 
> is not the exact same behaviour as shift+tab granted, but what one 
> intuitively expects when dragging and dropping. A literal equivalent to tab 
> and shift-tab (indent and unindent) would need to be via the context menu.
>

You're right. Sorry for that. What I suggested makes no sense, unless in 
very specific use cases.
 

>  
>
>>
>>- The drag handle could be more noticeable. I suggest a subtle 
>>vertical handle, to the left of the tiddler (and with its height). It 
>> could 
>>be even hidden until user hovers over the tiddler.
>>
>> Agreed that the styling on the handle needs to change, especially as it 
> is identical to a regular unordered list. I welcome any design suggestions 
> that could be implemented either via css or free svg icons. The current 
> bullet is pure css/html.  
>

Cool. I'll suggest something in my mock-ups. Having a common universal 
handle also opens up the possibility for tiddlers of other types in a 
Stream (besides bullets), such as plain paragraph ones. I pasted in the end 
of this email examples from Wordpress and Notion (in both, I have the mouse 
on the handle - it doesn't show in the screenshot).


>>- The context menu for a tiddler is great. I'd suggest having it show 
>>on hover of the aforementioned handle (after a short delay), instead of 
>> on 
>>Right-Click
>>
>> I would consider that a usability regression, elements popping up close 
> to user content on hover often get in the way. I do agree though that the 
> drag handle needs some kind of on hover affordance that it has other 
> functionality to explore.
>

Yes, that's what I meant - some hover options for the handle (such as 
changing the tiddler's type, for example).
 

>  
>
>> Some suggestions for making editing feel more fluid and modern:
>>
>
> I appreciate all of these thoughts but the reality is that in order to be 
> implemented properly, they would require a WYSIWYG editor for wiki text, 
> which does not exist and is a far more significant and complex undertaking 
> than this plugin. If such an editor is created, it can easily be utilized 
> in this plugin.
>

I was thinking about this visual BJtools editor:
http://bjtools.tiddlyspot.com/#VisualEditorDemo

Is there any reason it can't be used?
 

> For your other ideas regarding TW UI, I suggest starting a new thread. It 
> may help to differentiate between ideas for a hard fork or rewrite of 
> TiddlyWiki, and improvements to the current product. The former offers more 
> flexibility but also considerably more effort to realize (if at all), 
> whereas the latter will require design suggestions to be informed by and 
> accompanied by a willingness to learn and understand the basic architecture 
> of TW in order to be truly useful. If in doubt, just ask.
>

Sure, makes sense! Once I have the mockups I'll share them in a new post.

Thanks! 


> Regards,
> Saq
>
 

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Saq: This looks great! Love the name Streams btw.

A few general notes:

   - I wonder if an abandoned empty tiddler should be removed/deleted 
   automatically? Would make it cleaner.
   - There is no way to drag a child left (equivalent of SHIFT-TAB). In 
   order to do that via dragging, one needs to move it elsewhere, then bring 
   it back.
   - The drag handle could be more noticeable. I suggest a subtle vertical 
   handle, to the left of the tiddler (and with its height). It could be even 
   hidden until user hovers over the tiddler.
   - The context menu for a tiddler is great. I'd suggest having it show on 
   hover of the aforementioned handle (after a short delay), instead of on 
   Right-Click

Some suggestions for making editing feel more fluid and modern:

   - Having the new tiddler be initially single line (instead of two 
   lines), thus disrupting the layout less
   - Hiding the tiddler's text border
   - Show the formatting toolbar as a hover instead, in a more 
   minimal/modern format, and only once the user selects some text (or 
   right-cilcks on text)
   - Having the editor be WYSIWYG, which might...
  - ...help to avoid having the content shift/change when user starts 
  editing it.
  - ...allow editing to start in the actual place the user clicked on 
  the text.
   - Allow user to end editing by "clicking out" of a tiddler (equivalent 
   to ESC).

This is very exciting. As I mentioned previously, I'd suggest having this 
as the default editing experience for TW. It makes creating/editing 
tiddlers a much more Stream(*wink*)lined experience!

I'm currently in the process of creating a few mockups to demonstrate what 
I mean.

I don't want to clutter this up with more of my ramblings. But I'll add 
below a summary of my ideas, in case anyone is interested (if anyone has 
feedback on that, would be helpful!)

---

*Having the option of Stream being the default mode of creating/editing 
tiddlers in TW*
The main idea is that every new tiddler with more than a paragraph (or 
block) automatically becomes a multi-tiddler, with the paragraph tiddlers 
existing as subtiddlers (of course, there could be an override for this in 
special cases, such as when a user definitely doesn't want every paragraph 
to be a tiddler). 

The "bullet tiddler" (which you currently have implemented) would be only 
one of the many types of tiddler. The others would basically be all other 
paragraph-level formatting options, such as normal paragraph (which I think 
should be the default one), quote and headers (h1, h2 etc.).

Headers would allow the same kind of structuring that the current 
bullet-tiddlers implementation does (ie., moving an h1 header tiddler moves 
everything below it which has a lower header etc.), except for the 
indenting, of course. (Stream would still behave the same way it does now, 
by making Bullet hierarchy have priority over Headers-based hierarchy - 
ie., it would allow any bullet, in any hierarchy level, to have a Header 
based structure within it). 

All of this could happen seamlessly to the user. Hitting ENTER during 
editing creates a new tiddler with a type defined by its previous tiddlers 
-  For example: if editing a bullet or paragraph tiddlers, keep the type; 
if editing a header tiddler, change to paragraph.  Changing tiddler type 
could be done via the hover context menu of the tiddler, or a shortcut 
(maybe ALT-LEFT/RIGHT could cycle between: quote, bullet, paragraph 
(default), h1, h2 etc.).

Note how in this system all paragraph-level formatting (paragraph, quote, 
h1, h2 etc) would be done via the tiddler context menu, leaving much less 
formatting options for the text-level hover context menu (bolding a word or 
sentence, for example).

The title of a tiddler (as a big text on top) would actually be optional in 
this system. It could be added as a tiddler on top (with a Title type, 
above h1). A unique identifier for tiddlers would still exist (of course), 
and it could still be the the title. But in absence of a title, it could 
default to first letters of the tiddler. (note this would allow tiddlers 
with same Titles - as big text on top).

I realize the above leads to some challenges regarding how TW 
organizes/names tiddlers. The above is just a high-level description.

But I think referencing/linking/transclusion could continue working as it 
does. Considering Hierarchy information is stored in a custom field, this 
doesn't mess with the tagging system. Only main difference (I think) would 
be that, whenever a tiddler is opened (or transcluded), they also bring in 
all of their subtiddlers.

That's what I have for now. As I mentioned, Im working on a mockup to make 
it easier to communicate all of this, so any feedback/ideas on that would 
be gretly appreciated! 

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 5:56:39 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Updates:
>
>- Enabled keyboard shortcut keys for text formatting, like ctrl+b
>- Added a 

[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

I'm quite new to TW, but I have been thinking about a few things to suggest 
regarding flow (I've been doing some mock-ups).

One of these suggestions is to have tiddlers be identified by "name" 
(essentially a unique identifier), instead of by Title.

The idea that a user is forced to give a Title to every tiddler seems to go 
against the principle of allowing tiddlers to be the smallest units of 
content. 

The Name could still be the Title (if it exists within the Tiddler), or the 
first few words within the tiddler. The user could also change it to 
whatever they want.

This is just an overview of my idea... I can explain further if you'd like. 
As I mentioned, I'm currently mocking this up. But would be good to know 
what you guys think about it, so I know what makes sense and what doesn't!

Hope you feel better soon btw!

On Sunday, May 31, 2020 at 1:43:37 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> One of the things I would love to get feedback on, is how to handle 
> tiddlers being renamed.
> If a child tiddler is renamed, it vanishes from the bullet list as the 
> reference saved in a field in the parent is no longer accurate.
>
> Possible options are:
>
>1. do nothing and use an external plugin like Relink (current 
>situation, but its a non trivial plugin dependency)
>2. make a core pull request to get a rename tiddler hook that is 
>usable (the current one isnt) and handle the rename updates
>3. rework all relationships between tiddlers to be based on UUIDs 
>rather than tiddler titles. This is entirely doable and would be rename 
>resilient, at the cost of longer and more complex code. The mapping from 
>child tiddler to parent is already UUID based, the reverse could be as 
>well, it just makes lookups harder.
>4. Use the "list" field and the core ability to update... except that 
>we will at some point clash with other things (like tags) using this field 
>as well.
>I would prefer to have the option to leave the tags untouched and thus 
>usable for other purposes.
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

That's impressive!  It works great. 
I'd love to have this be my main mode of interaction with TW.

I did notice the text shifts a bit once clicked (which I don't think 
happens in bimlas' demo video). 

I wonder if this could be avoided by using a wysiwyg editor (since then the 
text wouldn't need to "jump" around as it shows/hides the tags). Maybe 
something like the one in BJToolss , but 
with a *much* more minimalist toolbar (like the ones found in modern rich 
text editors - see example below).




On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 7:08:01 PM UTC+1, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> This is a prototype. Do not use it for anything important.
> Major changes are likely that will make it very difficult to migrate your 
> content to newer versions.
> No support is available for content migration.
>
> *Please take the time to read through the information provided in the 
> demo, it will make any feedback provided more helpful.*
>
> Demo:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/bullets.html
> (note that this is under active development so the demo may not always be 
> up to date. For latest changes look at the code repository)
>
> *Code: *
> https://github.com/saqimtiaz/bullets
>
> Bimlas and I have been comparing ideas and code, and the breadcrumbs and 
> customization of new tiddler titles in this demo is inspired by his 
> approach.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Yeah, sorry my comments are mostly related to bimlas' demo.

This thread ended up mixing two things.

There's Saq's original post, about the keyboard driven approach.

Then there's bimlas demo (see youtube link here 
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/KeVDndcnY0g/E0RXa3ezBQAJ>), 
which is related to that, but seems to feature the behaviours I mentioned 
(direct editing/dragging) plus some other promising stuff (transclusions as 
portals? - not sure yet).

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:53:53 PM UTC+1, SizzlinSJ wrote:
>
> OGNSYA,
>  
>
>> - Ability to edit an item directly (tap, type), instead of needing to 
>> open the item (tap, type, close) 
>
>  Yes agree, but that is same as in TW like (edit button, type, save) if 
> anyone have a fast method please share.
>
 

>  
>
>> - Ability to drag items around, re-nest etc. 
>
> But thats fast once we long press on any bullet and select 'move' mode and 
> then use arrows to move that or any number of bullets. 
> (Something like this on keyboard, eg. pressing ctrl and then arrow keys to 
> move bullets around would be good).
>
> Saq did say, 
>
>> - everything except the dragging is keyboard driven
>
> We may expect quick workflow
>

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

SizzlinSJ: Orgzly looks interesting. Didn't know about it.
I missed these two things:
- Ability to edit an item directly (tap, type), instead of needing to open 
the item (tap, type, close) 
- Ability to drag items around, re-nest etc.

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:07:34 PM UTC+1, SizzlinSJ wrote:
>
> Hey Saq, 
> There is an open source android app called Orgzly which uses same bullet 
> style outline method, each bullet is like a tiddler with own tags, states, 
> properties(like fields in TW). Exporting is through .org file but can be 
> edited by any text editor. You may get some more useful inspiration there.
>

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[tw5] Re: Obsidian - Roam competitor

[OGNSYA]

Diego: Fully agree. Keep TW as it is - highly customizable. But allow casual 
users to get a much more straightforward out-of-the-box experience.

About Obsidian: Seems interesting. But one thing that I really can't get behind 
is the edit window separate from the preview one. I know it's very popular, but 
I'm suspicious it's mostly among devs. For non-devs it's a dealbreaker. To me 
it's so akward - such wasted screen space...

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Thomas: Thanks for that! Yes I'm aware of that group. For now I'm focusing on 
figuring out a good flow and functionality (which is still lacking, at least to 
me personally). The features shown in the demos in the thread seem very 
promising in that sense!

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[tw5] Re: Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets

[OGNSYA]

Good work! That video is very *exciting*.  TW is amazing, but I'm really 
put off by the friction in creating/editing tiddlers (and dealing with 
transclusions).

In your demo not only you have direct editing (with formatting), but you 
also seem to have live transclusion. In other words, it's not really a 
transclusion, but a "portal" to that other content (!). Is that correct?

I'm a designer and a while back I made some mock-ups of some ideas I had 
for TW. I never took them further, since it depended on the above mentioned 
features being possible... Depending on how that goes I can hunt down those 
designs and share here!

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 10:18:01 PM UTC+1, bimlas wrote:
>
> Saq,
>
> I think we should work together...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNqxIEX7eEg
>
> I wonder how you solved the navigation with the arrow buttons? It works 
> for me too, but only in one direction (good down, but not perfect up) and I 
> had to create a Javascript filter for that too.
>

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