[time-nuts] One more free thing...
Gang, There's one more free thing left from the stuffs I posted a week or so ago. I know everyone, almost everyone uses computers for drafting. That said, there is a drafting table complete wit a Drafting Machine and various attachments. There are also French Curves, compassesessess and other related stuffs. It would really be a shame to see it go to the dump :(This has to go right away and you have to come and pick it up in the Sierra Madre area near Pasadena. If you or anyone you know might be interested, please have them contact me direct via: b...@att.net Pictures are available. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Free Stuffs...
Gang, The free stuffs has all been spoken for. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Free Stuffs...
Gang, A local Southern California Broadcast Consulting Engineer buddy recently passed away. His home in Sierra Madre is going to be sold. There are 5 or 6 storage shelves, the kind with the yellow plastic bins about 6' tall, 4' wide and about 10" deep. They are loaded with the plastic bins and a lot of misc electronic and electrical parts. There is also a work bench or two. One for sure is a nice electronic type work bench. This stuff is free and must be picked up by June 9th. Obviously you will need a full size pickup truck. If interested, please contact me direct at: b...@att.net. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] The USFS Frequency Standard...
Technically speaking, the United State Frequency Standard (USFS) is still considered to be transmitted via WWVB on 60 kHz, essentially making WWVB the USFS. But is WWVB still a usable frequency standard reference since they've gone to phase shifting their signal for time keeping purposes? Will GPS become the "official" USFS reference signal? Is there a 60 kHz WWVB receiver out there that can still be used as reference? Is there a commercially made receiver out there that now uses the phase shifting technique of WWVB for accurate time keeping? Have I missed something? Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Happy Thanksgiving...
Gang, Just a quick not to wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is the best of the Holidays; a time to give thanks for them many blessings we have and to be with those who are most important to us. May all of your standards and time pieces agree. Enjoy, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Microscope for SMT work...
Ian, You have a very nice setup. I also bought an AM-Scope about three years ago. Mine has the associated 8-bazillion ton white stand on the edge of the bench with double arms that lets me swing it over to where I'm working. As I recall, it has a zoom range of about 3.5 to 45x which is more than enough range for SMT work. Not only is it great for SMT work, it's great for removing slivers from my fingers. The optics on the AM Scope instruments are excellent. I was fortunate in that a friend of mine works in a lab that builds satellite LNB's, so I was able to go play with the microscope before going to the Minister of Finance to get a blessing on purchasing it. It was amazing that even the slightest suggestion of using it to be able to repair the smallest of jewelry resulted in a blessing of the proposed purchase :> See: http://www.amscope.com/stereo-microscopes/3-5x-45x-trinocular-stereo-boom-zoom-microscope-fluorescent-light.html Burt, K6OQK Also, a recent addition that makes SMT so easy, the title of the manual is, "Instruction Manual for SE400, SE400-LED, Long Working Distance Stereo Microscope", about $200. With a working distance of nine inches or so, it beats the pants off my previous magnifier, Optivisor 10x where I have to have my face less than two inches from the soldering area. .. got the microscope from description from W7ZOI web site. http://w7zoi.net/micscope.html Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Improved Symmetricom ET-6000...
sorted out - a simple potentiometer, the only problem withstanding is the Vcorr/ref voltage. It may have altered with the setting og J27 - I did not measure that, there, the software change probably kics in - or not :-) Erik/ Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Measuring receiver...
Nick, Welcome to the world of FMT-Nuttery where we strive to make absurdly accurate off-air frequency measurements. I regularly participate in the FMT's. The "measuring receiver" I use is a HP-3586B "Selective Level Meter". While the 3586 series of receivers will only give you 0.1 Hz resolution, there are simple methods to use them to get down to 1 mHz (milliHertz) resolution, or better. You'll quickly find out that you're limited by propagation between the FMT transmitter and your receive location. Rather than go into a long dissertation here on how to do this, here's a link to the write-up for my preferred FMT Methodology - K6OQK FMT Methodology. See: http://www.k5cm.com/k6oqk%20fmt%20new.htm You're probably already familiar with Connie, K5CM's website for all things FMT, but in case you're not, take a look at: www.k5cm.com I'll be glad to answer any questions you have. You can either ask here or send me a direct e-mail at: b...@att.net. Burt, K6OQK From: Nick Sayer <nsa...@kfu.com> I'm considering taking a shot at the next ARRL frequency measurement contest. The assumption going in is that the signal is CW, with at least a half minute or so of just solid "on" at one point or another and that reception is reasonably good. I've got a good TIA and excellent references, but that's the easy part, it seems to me. It seems to me that what I really need to do is make a synthesized heterodyne receiver that can present an accurately tuned RF band pass - say, 10 kHz wide with the synthesizer set for 5 kHz steps - to the TIA, with some manually tunable high-pass and low-pass filtering to isolate the signal of interest. If the mixer got its LO from a synthesizer with a GPSDO reference, it seems to me that you could then measure the frequency of the signal of interest (now an audio frequency, so you can listen to it too) with the TIA (also getting the GPSDO reference) and then do simple math to arrive at the actual RF frequency. Anybody have any thoughts? Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LPRO-101 BITE (~lock) Signal Always Low...
Would someone please tell me what "BITE" signal is. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK >Hi > >Which strongly suggests that the BITE line is telling the truth. The unit is not in lock >and it's broke. If you have the gear, you can verify this by running the tune input up and >down and seeing if the output varies by about 0.02 Hz or not. > >Bob > >> On Mar 22, 2016, at 11:36 PM, Wayne Holder <wayne.hol...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The signal on pin 9 starts at about 7.2 volts then slowly increments up to >> 14.5 volts over a period of about 138 seconds. It then seems to stay stuck >> at 14.5 volts and only repeats the cycle if I power down,w wait and then >> power back on. >> >> Wayne Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS Outage..
Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying, but no matter the cause, it points out what can and does happen when you put all the mission critical eggs in one basket. That we don't have as reliable as possible a backup system, or why we destroyed the one we had, is mind boggling. This is a perfect example of what happens when you have people who don't understand the problem/s making the wrong final decisions in spite of having been warned. It is my belief that if we are to be so reliant on these systems for so many things, we need to have a functioning backup system in place. Burt, K6OQK Mark Sims wrote: >> When is some organization going to explain what happened in February for almost two hours starting at 00:16 GMT? That subject has gone silent. Rob, NC0B > I heard back from NAVCEN. They said it was a Trimble issue and that Trimble would contact me (they didn't). But that does not jive with reports of failures in Motorola, Navman, etc receivers. I think we need to distinguish here. The January 26 issue was due to faulty data sent by the satellites, which caused GPS receivers to apply a wrong UTC correction which caused the UTC time to be off by 13.7 us. As explained by Luc Gaudin from http://naelcom.com (who obviously sell Trimble GPS receivers) the February 13 issue was indeed just a Trimble firmware problem. See: https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-February/096042.html https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-February/096050.html Martin Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP Equipment Running Hot as Heck...
Don, Something to be careful of... Be sure the mains voltage switch is set properly. I had a HP-3336A that ran hot like that. Like you, I put bigger and bigger heat sinks on the regulator, but all that seemed to do was make the bigger heat sinks as "hot as heck" also. What I discovered was that the mains voltage selector was set to 100 volts. I reset it to 120, (or was it 117) and it ran much cooler. Burt, K6OQK From: "Don Latham" <d...@montana.com> Someone has already probably said, watch out for switching regulators. BTW, almost all the Hp instruments I have from the 80's era run hot as heck. I have put on fans and piggybacked more fins (and more fins, and more fins...). A Military version of the 5328A counter I have has what sounds like a leaf blower in it, with a proportional controller added. If you do some work with switchers, I'm sure the list would be very interested! Don Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 137, Issue 5
Paul, What about something like an ICOM R-71x? Burt, K6OQK At 09:00 AM 12/4/2015, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN on the air starting 8 Dec Bill not so sure about that. I agree they do pop up sort of randomly. The note I get is for the longer tests. Curious how are you monitoring?? I can see some magical 100 KHz rcvr with alarm/squelch seems to be handy. Not that they exist. I will guess the SRs700 would relock also but I don't leave that on 24X7. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] General Radio frequency standard question...
I'm trying to remember the model number of the GR Comparison Scope - the one that had the anode in the center of the face of the CRT. Something like an 1109A or B? Can someone refresh my memory. At one time I was looking for one of those - maybe I still am. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] General Radio frequency standard question There is a GR group on Yahoo but its pretty quiet. I joined when I started restoring one of the GR early synthesizers a 1161A, the a 1115A oscillator (the one where the dewer got destroyed in shipping). Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS Referenced Programmable Oscillator...
Gang, I just ran across this and wonder what you think. http://www.force12inc.com/products/gps-locked-precision-frequency-reference-low-jitter-gps-clock-450-hz-to-800-mhz-output.html Seems like it could be set up as a reference to replace crystals in some Ham rigs such as a repeater transmitter and receiver. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPS for GPS system...
I don't know if this will help, but if you know anyone in engineering at a radio or TV station you might ask if they have any UPS's they are going to get rid of (trash). I have two 1500 VA rack mount UPS sine wave units that a local station was going to trash. The chief told me that when the batteries get old they simply replace the entire unit. Mine have been running my two DATUM GPSA units for about 8 years and I've only had to replace the batteries twice; once when I got the units and one other time about two years ago. They're still going strong. They're pretty close to my HF radio and I have not experienced any RFI from them. Burt, K6OQK On Oct 10, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Chris Waldrup <kd4...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, I have decided I'd like to get a UPS to put on the rack containing my Thunderbolt, the laptop that runs Lady Heather, and frequency counter. Has anyone had bad experience noise wise with the APC brand units like are available on Amazon and at Staples? I'd like to get one that doesn't generate lots of RFI. Thank you. Chris KD4PBJ Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info...
My favorite WWVB clock is the Junghans Mega Atomic Alarm Clock. I have several of them and they work almost anywhere (in the USA). The manual says to change the battery once every 30 days. Just for fun I wanted to see how long they could go without having to change the AA battery - two of mine are well into their fifth year. They have a large display and will tell you how many days since it last set. They can be easily be found for $20 - $30. See: http://www.atomic-clocks.com/juatalcl.html ...Or, you can get them on eBay for around $200.00 Burt, K6OQK From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wtd: WWVB info Does anyone have a schematic for building a simple WWVB receiver ? Any information would be grateful. - Don See http://www.joejaworski.com/wwvb/ for a recent WWVB project. See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/WWVBexps.pdf for a vintage project. /tvb Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPDATE: DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
McCoy MC597X4 VCXO modules that do not have a frequency adjustment other than by way of the EFC control. Looking at the specs on these modules it looked like they might almost be electrically a drop in replacement for the original Vectron modules, although the McCoy's were about one-quarter the size. The McCoy's require 5 volts Vcc rather than 12 volts that the Vectron required. Not a problem. Testing confirmed that the EFC tuning voltage indeed went the same direction the McCoy requires. Since I don't have the sophisticated equipment that many of you have to comparatively confirm stability, I decided to modify only one of my 9390's and compare the results to the other one. The two 9390's have separate antennas mounted about 3 feet apart and in a pretty clear view of the sky. I stuffed the McCoy module in place of the Vectron but instead of connecting the EFC lead, I used a 1k pot with the top connected to 5 volts through a small resistor, the bottom to ground, and the arm to the EFC pin on the McCoy. Using the other 9390 for comparison, I was able to determine that in order to have the McCoy output 10 MHz, the EFC voltage wanted to be slightly under +4 volts, essentially the same as the original Vectron. Great, what could go wrong? I shut everything down and connected the EFC control voltage to the EFC terminal on the McCoy. As the McCoy came up to temperature I got a tracking light and the 10 MHz spigot came nicely onto 10 MHz, sat there and then wandered off frequency and after a while came back and overshot in the other direction. I figured this would be a process that would go on for a day or two and the pendulum would eventually settle in. After several days this did not happen and the 9390 gave me a tracking error. Apparently, the time constants in the loop and the sensitivity of the EFC control in the McCoy did not play well together. Pondering the situation I decided to slow down the EFC voltage change. I did this by putting a 4.7 uf capacitor across the EFC pin to the ground pin and fed the EFC voltage to the EFC pin through a 5100 Ohm resistor, essentially, in my opinion, hanging a flywheel across the EFC line to the McCoy. Since with the smaller McCoy I had additional space within the 9390 I also made a sandwich type enclosure out of foam for the smaller McCoy to help isolate it from tempreture changes. I let the unit run for about 24 hours and noted that it had settled in nicely and sat, according to its display, at 0E-12 for well over the next 24 hours. Comparing this to my stock 9390, this appeared to be correct except for some small amount of wandering - the stock unit was showing variations of 1E-12 to about 10E-12, the amount of drift they had both always shown. I watched this for about two weeks and while the modified 9390 sat at 0E-12, the stock unit continued to show the same amount of drift it always had shown. I modified my second 9390 with the other McCoy VCXO and now the two units sit within 0 to 1E10-12, and comparing the two using both a 1:1 Lissajou and separately using one to trigger a scope that's monitoring the other, I believe things are much improved. In the year plus since I've modified these two units they've sat quite steady and have survived some deliberate power interruptions just to see what would happen. I have detailed pictures if anyone is interested. I don't know if the above offers any input of value, or even how scientific it is according to deep Time-Nuts standards, but it's what I did. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Any reason not to use one power amplifier and splitter for distribution amplifier?...
I assume you're talking about splitting the 10 MHz signal from a reference source. I used to use a video amp but it developed problems after about 30 years of use. I started looking at other video amps and along the way I started to use a passive TV type 6-way splitter, the type in a solid metal case with F-Connectors. This has actually worked quite well and my various counters as well as my HP-3586B and HP-3336A are happy with the levels. At the moment I don't recall the output level of my DATUM 9390-52054 receivers, but it's quite healthy and when I was using a Video DA I had to put a 10 dB pad on the input to keep from frying the innards. A passive splitter may not be the best way to distribute my House Reference, but it works well, and really, that's all I want. I use a 6 spigot version of this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=SKY23308ss=412546 Burt, K6OQK At 03:30 PM 1/5/2015, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Happy New Years All! I have seen a number of discussions on various approaches to distribution amps discussed on Time-Nuts ranging from DYI to products intended for Video. I thought I my weigh in with one point of interest; It seems like long term performance is pretty easy, but a low phase noise solution is quite a different story. Looking at the number of application specific products from MicroSemi/Symmetricom and other manufactures claimed and even more so real world specs vary a great deal so apparently it s not easy to just throw something together with great or even good close in phase noise. So depending on your labs direction in the future it may be worth researching and investing in an application specific distribution amp. I like the MicroSemi 4036B but there are a number of very good products out there on the surplus market selling for a small fraction of their original cost. Cheers; Thomas Knox From: bill.ric...@verizon.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 08:29:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Any reason not to use one power amplifier andsplitter for distribution amplifier? A cheap and dirty equivalent of a pass thru terminator that I use is a BNC t connector with a 52 ohm bnc terminator. I guess you could use a CATV 75 ohm F type with an adapter. Maybe that combination would produce too much garbage. 73, Bill, WA2DVU Cape May Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Happy Thanksgiving...
Margaret and I send our best wishes to each and everyone of you for a Happy Thanksgiving. Be thankful for your family and friends, no matter how nuts they may appear. Burt Margaret Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base Question...
I was recently given a HP-5300B / 5308A counter. I thought it might be handy when I'm at an AM broadcast transmitter and needed to make rough frequency measurements. It turns out that at 1000 kHz it reads about 4.5 Hz high. Looking inside I'm not sure if there's a time base adjustment. I looked at the on-line manuals available and I don't find any reference to adjusting the time base frequency. Does anyone here know anything about these counters? Is there a schematic available? I'm not looking for precision, but 4.5 Hz at 1 MHz seems a tad much. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base...
Tom Bob, Thanks for the comments and quick reply. Tom, when I originally did a google search I did not see the site that you sent, but from your guidance I did find the manual showing the frequency adjustment and I'm letting the 5300B/5308A combination counter heat up. From a cold start it's about 6+ Hz low when compared to my house GPS reference - a DATUM 9390-52054. In a bit I'll give the thing a tweak and it should come right in as Bob suggests. I don't know the history of this counter except that the fellow that gave it to me has nothing to really compare it against nor the experience to question its accuracy. On my unit the oscillator adjustment marking is gone, but the hole for the adjustment thankfully is still there : I'll let you know how it goes - should be a simple tweak. Thanks Guys, Burt K6OQK From: Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base Hi Bert, The service manual for the 5300B is on the keysight.com site under manuals. http://www.keysight.com/main/techSupport.jspx?searchT=5300Bid=5300B:epsg:propageMode=OVpid=5300B:epsg:procc=USlc=eng Do you have a frequency reference (house standard) that you can use to adjust the reference in the counter? See the manual. Regards, Tom From: Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net I was recently given a HP-5300B / 5308A counter. I thought it might be handy when I'm at an AM broadcast transmitter and need to make rough frequency measurements. It turns out that at 1000 kHz it reads about 4.5 Hz high. Looking inside I'm not sure if there's a time base adjustment. I looked at the on-line manuals available and I don't find any reference to adjusting the time base frequency. Does anyone here know anything about these counters? Is there a schematic available? I'm not looking for precision, but 4.5 Hz at 1 MHz seems a tad much. Burt, K6OQK -- From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org Hi 4.5 Hz at 1 MHz is 4.5 ppm. Thatâs not out of the likely adjustment range on the basic crystal reference on a 5308. Itâs probably a simple tweak to get it back into calibration. Bob Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPDATE: HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base...
The closest it will adjust is -2.5 Hz of 10. MHz. This unit differs from the one in the manual in that it has a Microsonics OCXO with the adjustment on the side of the module. The oven does not feel warm but is written on the side is: Adjust at 25 Deg C, which is about 77 degrees F. The schematic associated with the oven is missing from the schematic. I suspect that the oven is either shot or not getting power. The unit will not power up with the boards separated so I'm going to have to spend some time hanging wires out the side to make measurements. Does anyone know of a schematic showing the Microsonics module and the associated circuitry for oven control? Not sure if it's worth the effort, but it would be a shame to toss it - that's against my nature. Burt, K6OQK Tom Bob, Thanks for the comments and quick reply. Tom, when I originally did a google search I did not see the site that you sent, but from your guidance I did find the manual showing the frequency adjustment and I'm letting the 5300B/5308A combination counter heat up. From a cold start it's about 6+ Hz low when compared to my house GPS reference - a DATUM 9390-52054. In a bit I'll give the thing a tweak and it should come right in as Bob suggests. I don't know the history of this counter except that the fellow that gave it to me has nothing to really compare it against nor the experience to question its accuracy. On my unit the oscillator adjustment marking is gone, but the hole for the adjustment thankfully is still there : I'll let you know how it goes - should be a simple tweak. Thanks Guys, Burt K6OQK From: Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base Hi Bert, The service manual for the 5300B is on the keysight.com site under manuals. http://www.keysight.com/main/techSupport.jspx?s earchT=5300Bid=5300B:epsg:propageMode=OVpid=5300B:epsg:procc=USlc=eng Do you have a frequency reference (house standard) that you can use to adjust the reference in the counter? See the manual. Regards, Tom From: Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net I was recently given a HP-5300B / 5308A counter. I thought it might be handy when I'm at an AM broadcast transmitter and need to make rough frequency measurements. It turns out that at 1000 kHz it reads about 4.5 Hz high. Looking inside I'm not sure if there's a time base adjustment. I looked at the on-line manuals available and I don't find any reference to adjusting the time base frequency. Does anyone here know anything about these counters? Is there a schematic available? I'm not looking for precision, but 4.5 Hz at 1 MHz seems a tad much. Burt, K6OQK -- From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org Hi 4.5 Hz at 1 MHz is 4.5 ppm. ThatâÂÂs not out of the likely adjustment range on the basic crystal reference on a 5308. ItâÂÂs probably a simple tweak to get it back into calibration. Bob Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPDATE: HP 5300B - HP 5308A Counter Time Base...
Bob, Alas, I suspect you've hit the nail on the head. I'll probably wind up replacing the oscillator with something similar that I can make work. While I've got some pretty good counters in the racks in my workshop, the 5300B is a handy little counter to schlep around for low frequency work. Beside, it's lighter than the rack mounted counters. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org Hi If the OCXO was not heating, it would be off by about 20 to 60 Hz. It's close enough that it is getting power and heating up. If it does move when you fiddle the trimmer, that part is likely still connected. It sounds like the beast has simply aged further than it's trim range. Bob On Nov 1, 2014, at 8:39 PM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: The closest it will adjust is -2.5 Hz of 10. MHz. This unit differs from the one in the manual in that it has a Microsonics OCXO with the adjustment on the side of the module. The oven does not feel warm but is written on the side is: Adjust at 25 Deg C, which is about 77 degrees F. The schematic associated with the oven is missing from the schematic. I suspect that the oven is either shot or not getting power. The unit will not power up with the boards separated so I'm going to have to spend some time hanging wires out the side to make measurements. Does anyone know of a schematic showing the Microsonics module and the associated circuitry for oven control? Not sure if it's worth the effort, but it would be a shame to toss it - that's against my nature. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE-Lite module and the pendulum...
I'm not sure if you're referring to my comment about the Vectron VCXO jumping when I tried to adjust it or some other part of the discussion. I was definitely referring to adjusting the screw on the side of the Vectron VCXO that I believe is a piston capacitor. I suppose it could be a 10-turn trimpot. From: saidj...@aol.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LTE-Lite module and the pendulum... Hi John, while I can't tell you which vendors are affected and which are not (Its like asking an angler for his secret angling spot :), I can say that most low cost TCXOs exhibit this behavior, and are thus not really suitable for GPSDOs. The ones we used on the LTE-Lite are quite good and do not exhibit this behavior. They are also 10x more expensive than the lost cost TCXOs in the exact same package that are typically used in non-critical applications. So far none of the quite reputable TCXO and OCXO vendors that I contacted about the problem can explain the behavior to me, like I said they were not even aware of the issue and had no way to test for it, and I had to prove it to them by sending our units to them so they can see the issue for themselves. Bye, Said In a message dated 10/21/2014 11:51:28 Pacific Daylight Time, j...@miles.io writes: Great insight thanks. You nailed it: out with the old oscillator and in with one that doesn't have that problem. Btw the mechanical tuning issue you mentioned is essentially the same exact problem: even the slightest turn will make the frequency jump too high or too low. It can drive you (and the loop) crazy trying to get it on-frequency. Whenever I've seen this behavior, it has always been caused by uncertainty or quantization on the part of the trimpot's wiper, rather than anything that could be blamed on the varactor. What would be a good example of a TCXO or OCXO model that exhibits EFC hysteresis? I don't immediately understand what could cause this phenomenon, and I'd like to reproduce it here to see what's happening. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE-Lite module and the pendulum...
writes: Then at some point the crystal 'snaps' and jumps in frequency, overshooting the desired frequency and causing the P term to start pushing in the opposite direction repeating the cycle. If your hardware does not respond to the output, any PI(D) loop will go bezerk, and there's nothing you can do about it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE-Lite module and the pendulum...
Said, The DATUM 9390's I have came from the Sieko pager watch project that I was involved in back in the mid to late 90's. As I recall, even when the DATUM clocks were new we'd have to adjust the oscillators periodically to keep them within lock range. The center of the DAC was around 27000 and they'd wander about 1 plus or minus. They'd sometimes wander out of lock at plus or minus about 15000 and one of us would have to make a trip to some transmitter site to re-set the clock and re-center the Vectron module. The adjustment was accessible through a hole in the back of the clock. As I recall, you could give the oscillator a half turn one way or the other without causing too much distress to the clock. This held true with my two units until the one oscillator developed the adjustment problem. Not knowing what was really inside the Vectron, I attributed the problem to a defective or cracked piston capacitor. The adjustment certainly had the feel of a piston capacitor. Since I made the modifications I described, the DAC sits within about 10 of 27450, and that's where my units are happy. By the way, I've got two 1.5 KVA UPS's in my shoppe, one for each clock. They'll run for a long time on those. Burt From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LTE-Lite module and the pendulum... Burt, Great insight thanks. You nailed it: out with the old oscillator and in with one that doesn't have that problem. Btw the mechanical tuning issue you mentioned is essentially the same exact problem: even the slightest turn will make the frequency jump too high or too low. It can drive you (and the loop) crazy trying to get it on-frequency. Bye, Said Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r down conversion method...
Charles, If I recall correctly, the original point of the d-psk-r was to cause the clocks to again read the correct time, not maintain their use as a frequency standard. I have a Symmetricom 8170 that I used to use only as a clock to tell the time of day. Since WWVB's addition of the PSK coding, it's only good to watch the pretty blinken lights. Burt, K6OQK From: Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r down conversion method Paul wrote: The goal is to remove the psk so the old phase tracking receivers can work. Yes, I understand that. But you want them to work like they originally did, with the disciplined oscillator in the phase tracking receiver phase-locked to the WWVB carrier (or else you may as well just ignore WWVB entirely and generate your own 60kHz carrier). Once you add an LO/BFO, the signal you end up with is NOT locked to the WWVB carrier -- it is locked to some frequency that is determined by both WWVB and the LO/BFO (whch means, it is only as accurate and stable as the LO/BFO). So the whole benefit of receiving WWVB in the first place is lost. [In the special case of a TRF receiver, with no LO/BFO, the signal will remain locked to WWVB.] Whats good about this as I just typed to Bob the signal is slow and easy to work on. From what I have seen the phase tracking receivers have a fairly long time constant. So the fact that the phase detect and flip occurs 1/10 of a second later should not have any effect on these radios. It's got nothing to do with how fast or slow the signal you end up with is, or how easy it is to work on. If the frequency and phase of that signal are not uniquely dependent on the WWVB carrier frequency and phase, then the oscillator you discipline will not be disciplined to the precision of WWVB -- it will be disciplined to no better than your own LO/BFO. [Also note that the phase flips at one second intervals no matter what frequency you translate it to -- that is not a unique feature of the 100Hz recovered carrier.] As Alex pointed out, you could in theory use a LO/BFO that is, itself, derived from the disciplined oscillator, and in which the loops will not lock unless the IF and LO have the correct values. But, as Alex also points out, such a scheme will have about the same complexity as a Costas loop. The Tracor itself uses a crude variant of this strategy, in which the LO is guided huff-n-puff style in steps of 1/100 of a cycle, some steps above and some below the correct frequency. But when you are starting with a signal that is already orders of magnitude less stable than a GPS signal, it is just rude to throw away even more stability with that sort of approximation. Furthermore, all of this would need to happen outside of the old-school phase tracking receiver, so you'd end up building your own external phase tracking receiver just to run the old phase tracking receiver. Best regards, Charles Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Homebuilt GPS receiver...
Back in the mid 70's I was involved in the home-brewing of a receiver for our 2-Meter FM Ham repeater on Mt. Wilson. It was fairly sophisticated with a double balanced mixer and all kinds of fancy circuitry. The I.F chain consisted of 3 chips which were limiters enclosed in separate machined metal boxes. The gain in the I.F. was so high that it would tend to go into oscillation if you even looked at it. The secret to making it unconditionally stable was to flip the polarity at the output of the first I.F. going into the I.F. transformer. Since the circuit described for the homebuilt GPS receiver uses a balanced I.F. chain, I wonder if that's a part of how he got it stable? Quote from the description: The LMH7220 adds 59 dB of gain making a total of 119 dB for the whole IF. Deploying so much gain at one frequency was a risk. To minimise it, balanced circuitry over a solid ground plane was used and screened twisted-pair carries the output to the FPGA. The motivation was simplicity, avoiding a second conversion. In practice, the circuit is stable, so the gamble paid-off. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Homemade GPS Receiver Quite a project and extremely well presented and executed. Thanks for the link to a fascinating read! Didier KO4BB On September 17, 2014 5:34:38 PM CDT, Peter Putnam n...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Greetings, The link below describes a The LMH7220 adds 59 dB of gain making a total of 119 dB for the whole IF. Deploying so much gain at one frequency was a risk. To minimise it, balanced circuitry over a solid ground plane was used and screened twisted-pair carries the output to the FPGA. The motivation was simplicity, avoiding a second conversion. In practice, the circuit is stable, so the gamble paid-off. It is presented in a detailed and elegant manner that is certain to appeal to this reflector's subscribers. Peter http://www.aholme.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Time-Nuts digest working again...
Gang, I had comment a while ago that I was having trouble viewing the Time-Nuts digests using Eudora 7.x. I'm pleased to report that the digests are once again coming across properly. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. Looking at any digests prior to that time, they still display normally. I remember a week or so ago reading that a change in server/s was in the process of taking place. Could my display issue be related to this? I'm using Eudora 7.1 as my e-mail client on a Windows7 32 bit computer and prior to the date mentioned the digests had displayed normally on this computer system. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....
Gang, Just for fun I just tried to see if I could hear the signal on 24 kHz using my GPS referenced HP-3586B and a HP-3336A also GPS locked to compare the I.F. frequency using a 1:1 Lissajou pattern. It's 7:30 AM here in Los Angeles. I heard a signal but I doubt that it was NAA. What time of the day would be best, probably when the entire path is dark? My antenna is a dipole about 30-feet on a side, which is really all I've got up at the moment. It's orientation favors that part of the country. I hear WWVB at 60 kHz almost all the time with that antenna. WWVB is quite recognizable because of the phase shift signature as seen on my X-Y display. Burt, K6OQK From: Kenneth G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com On 16 Aug 2014 at 10:24, paul swed wrote: Ken At least last night NAA was running just fine using a fluke 207 and 4 ft of wire. The antenna is behind a metal rack that shields it in NAAs direction. Ha! At VLF you could probably bury your antenna in a grounded, steel pipe 4 feet into the ground and still hear NAA. I did that test out of curiosity. I LOVE curious... :-) Ken W7EKB Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT - First Recorded Sounds...
Off topic for our usual faire, but I have a working Edison Cylinder machine with the Blue Bell horn with a playback and recording head. I have several cylinders but no blanks. Simple technology, but what has always amazed me is the ability to bring back to life artists such as Caruso, John McCormack, and may others by way of the acoustical recording they made. Many years ago I was involved in a radio program called, Metropolitan Opera Highlights that aired during the Met's off season. The program was created around the artistry and magic of these recordings using material from our personal libraries. Absolutely wonderful! Burt, K6OQK At 09:57 PM 8/10/2014, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Note that you can actually HEAR the end results of this squiggle-on-paper which Scott was only able to encode but never decode and I got to hear it at the Antique Phonograph Society back then..relived today and well documented in this large PDF that is really cool to view: http://www.firstsounds.org/publications/facsimiles/FirstSounds_Facsimile_05. pdf For those that really want to hear MP3 renditions of this miracle go here: http://firstsounds.org/sounds/scott.php and step back 154 years in time to the first recorded and frequency/ time-synchronized recordings made..enjoy as it is intended or just hit Delete if you think there are faults in this! Robert L. (Bob) Burchett Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB updated remodulator schematic...
I can't read the files the link takes me to. It does not look like a pdf file extension. What program created it? Burt, K6OQK At 11:50 AM 7/8/2014, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com, Time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] WWVB updated remodulator schematic 2 mistakes and a question I have received 2 different emails that what I published seems to have gone out. A 243KB PDF sent through time-nuts. Also sent out dropbox links and indirectly it appears that works. Would appreciate some more feedback please on how you may have obtained the documentation to see what works best. Also found 2 errors on the schematic and those are corrected here. Both are around the 2n3904 transistor. 100K increased to 270K better behavior 47 ohm typo its 1.8K not really picky. Regards Paul WB8TSL -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Remodulator op_ver1 07082014.sch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 28739 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20140708/60dc34fa/attachment.obj Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] ESE ES-180 WWV Receiver Schematic...
Bob, Have you tried to contact ESE for the information. In the past they've always been pretty helpful on obsoleted goodies. http://www.ese-web.com/ A bit of trivia... ESE originally stood for El Segundo Enterprises. Burt, K6OQK Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Betts rwbe...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [time-nuts] ESE ES-180 WWV Receiver Schematic Hi All: This posting is not about splitting milli-seconds or other accuracy stuff, but I need help and thought of?our time-nuts group. At our Ham club we try to keep accurate time (think wall clock) for logging certain tests, local and state emergency skeds and coordination with other EmComm and ARES facilities. To that end, I installed a?GPS receiver which was a more convenient upgrade from the old Spectracom WWVB, 60 kHz clock and some other first efforts. ?http://bobsamerica.com/time3.html ? We also acquired an ESE, ES-180 clock which decodes?data from any of the?5 WWV HF broadcasts; 2.5, 5, 10, 15, 20 MHz. Okay fine. We have 3 clock reception options. Obviously, the GPS is the most convenient, so good bye to the LF receiver. ? However, over time, we have come to use the 5-band HF clock as a propagation beacon. A quick scan of the 5 bands gives us a good feeling of the HF band?propagation quality for a given time of day, sun spot activity, season, weather condx and the highest MUF band (max usable freq). This is a great tool that covers a big portion of our allocated HF privilages, 160 thru 15 meters. ? Sorry, this post is getting long.?Okay, so my point is that I?need to find a schematic for the subject ESE clock. I need to make some mods to the auto-scan circuits and do a (probably) overdue receiver alignment. The ES-180 contains 2 PC Bd's; one for the display drivers/7-segment encoders and the other is the receiver, scan controller and data decoders. ESE had the schematic for the digital board, but no archive material for the receiver section. I've been searching the usual suspects, but no good fortune yet. ? I realize that this topic?is a bit different than what we usually discuss here, but if anyone could point me in the right direction for this schematic, we'd really appreciate it. ? Many thanks, ? Bob, N1KPR Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Why using HP5370 ext-ref is (maybe) a bad idea...
I don't know if this has any value here, but several years back I had a problem with my IFR-1500 Service Monitor. When I would externally lock it to my 10 MHz DATUM I would see jitter in the signals being measured with the IFR. It turned out to be leakage in the IFR's solid state switch that was allowing some of the internal oscillator to be mixed in with the external reference. I added a 2NA transistor to short out the internal oscillator's output to the original switch. The 2NA's base is fed from the Ext REF LED voltage. This solved the problem. Burt, K6OQK From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why using HP5370 ext-ref is (maybe) a bad idea On 01/03/14 18:20, Brian Lloyd wrote: Instead of using the external reference input, any thoughts on actually disciplining the internal OCXO to bypass the problem? Considering that it's a HP10811A, it shouln't be too hard. In general, doing a new A8 board might be an option. Cheers, Magnus Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] From Burt - K6OQK...
Gang, Best wishes to all for good health and much contentment in the New Year. Burt Margaret Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunder Bolt Display...
Well, I thought it was appropriate for this group. But, what do I know. I would probably get one except that I don't have a Thunderbolt. Even so, it was interesting to see the video. Well done, Adam. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] A day gone awry...
Wow! Sorry to hear that you tripped over your 2077. Burt, K6OQK At 09:00 AM 9/9/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote By the way, it turns out that I paid dearly for my good luck with the repair of my 2077. In the two weeks following that, I got a pinched nerve in my back that's still giving me trouble, I broke a big chunk off a tooth and am now scheduled for a crown at a cost of about $1000, and my big-screen TV died! :( Ed Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question...
Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question Funny that those toys that come with Linux pretty much run the entire Internet and every Android phone and almost every TV set top box and firewall/router. But in the end as a developer you either follow the market and the dollar or you do what your boss pays you to do. What tools are needed anyway but a few terminal windows and a text editor? Anyways the hot market now if you are chasing the dollar and customers is phone apps. That is what users want and that is who the companies are hiring. I'd really like to see SDR move to phones and tablets. It would make them even more portable. These phone now days have quad core 32-bit CPUs and GPUs that can be tapped for compting power for thing like FFTs and other DSP. As for development tools, there is no shortage. We also need some new ideas. So muct SDR software tries to emulate a 1980's radio. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A...
Paul, It's a buy it now at $124.00. That's an expensive rack filler or movie prop. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz No pre 2012 phase tracking receiver will work. So far I have not seen a single magical new receiver for the new modulation. So if its a good price $20 including shipping buy it for a hole filler in the rack. Or just because you always wanted one. You have to build the d-psk-r to actually use them. I have 2 117s. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] The word, Radiation as a boogieman...
John, Unfortunately, there's a lot of money in fear. Being in broadcast engineering I learned as long time ago to never use the words, radiation or radiate a signal when referring to a station's signal. Instead, I refer to it as, Launch or Launched a signal. When asked about a radio station's radiation I remind them about the expression, radiate a smile. It simply means, to send out. If you really want to frighten people, use the expression, To radiate SPAM! Burt, K6OQK At 06:21 AM 7/9/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Radiation is a fact of life. It is used as a boogieman by some, to suit their agendas. -John Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...
This is an old trick that I learned many years ago. By taking a transformer, driving its primary from the mains and then feeding that transformer's secondary voltage in series (either in phase or out of phase) will either add (in phase) voltage to the transformer primary, or subtract (out of phase) voltage to the transformer thereby reducing the transformer's primary voltage by the amount of the buck/boost transformers secondary voltage. It's important to use a transformer for the buck or boost circuit that can handle the amps necessary for the particular load. I often used Healthy filament transformers to do the job.For example... At one time I had a Kenwood 820S transceiver that I picked up in Japan. Japan's mains voltage was 100 VAC. When I got back home I needed to get the 120 VAC stepped down to 100 VAC to properly run this rig. What I did was to take a Triad multi-voltage Dry-Disk transformer and connect the primary winding across the 120 VAC mains. In this case I used the 18 VAC secondary windings and put that in series but out of phase, with the Kenwood Radio's primary. This reduced the 120 VAC going into the Kenwood to about 102 VAC (120V-18V=102 Volts). Had I connected the Dry-Disk transformer's winding in series and in phase I would've had 138 volts. I hope this helps. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Atkinson Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage Hi Marki, Dropping the mains voltage is easy. Get a mains to low voltage transformer. Connect the primary across the mains and the secondary in series opposition (out of phase) with the mains supply. Foar example a 100VA 12V transformer will drop your mains to just under 238V with a maximum load of 8A (the current rating of the secondary). HTH, Robert G8RPI. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] wwvb 60 khz tuning fork crystals Some insights
Paul, The stuffs I ordered from DigiKey came yesterday. Those are really small tuning fork crystals! In your notes below... you said, The feedback resistor has to be very large I was surprised by how large. 22 M and I could go higher. hen you said, Anything above 270-330K cause startup issues. Did you mean anything below 270-330K causes startup issues? Burt At 08:02 PM 6/26/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Subject: [time-nuts] wwvb 60 khz tuning fork crystals Some insights Working on the wwvb remodulator and have learned a fair amount about tuning fork crystals. there is a fair amount of information out there. It seems generally the same thing and as it turned out perhaps not all that useful. This is what I have done a schematic in words. Using a single 74hc14 inverter feeding a buffer inverter pins 3 and 4 22 M feedback resistor pin 1 to 2 Xtal feed back path Pin 2 to 50K variable pot to a 68K and 100K resistor in series to 230 pf to ground. This same junction has the 60 Khz xtal feeding then back to pin 1. Power supply is a CS5206 3.3V LDO 22uf and .047uf to ground. The 230pf cap grossly gets the system close to frequency. About 5 Hz. Adjusting the variable pot puts the xtal on frequency. Granted this is simply changing the crystal drive. But it works well. The 50K pot gives about 8 Hz adjustment range. I did indeed use small variable plastic caps. They were a pain to use actually. Granted a high quality air variable would be good and you can tell how its been adjusted. Not so with the plastic caps. You are a bit blind. I then tested 10 xtals out of 50 a random sampling. They ranged from 59.996 to 60.005 some came close to the original mouse xtal I built the system with below 1 Hz. Conclusion The 60 Khz xtals will need a way to adjust. They simply are never close. The feedback resistor has to be very large I was surprised by how large. 22 M and I could go higher. Lowering the drive raises the frequency to a point. Anything above 270-330K cause startup issues. The circuit as describes starts very quickly sub 200 ms. I will update the wwvb remodulator schematic with this information and most likely make a real schematic and also build up my own remodulator for use until I add the remodulator to the d-psk-r to create a single package. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation...
RCA made the MI-7016 exciter for their early FM transmitters that was all tube, and phase locked to a crystal that was in the 100 kHz region. The crystal frequency was determined by dividing the desired operating frequency (88 to 108 MHz) by1296. It was lovingly called, The Iron Fireman. It had a two-phase motor that drove a capacitor in the oscillator tank. It really did perform well, even by today's standards. I think it was originally a Western Electric design. When the 7016 exciter first came out the FM band was 44 to 54 MHz, but when the band moved up to 88-108 MHz the transmitter design added a 4-125A double stage right after the exciter. Some of these rigs were still operating well up into the 70's See: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_fm_exciter_unit_mi_7016mi.htmlhttp://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_fm_exciter_unit_mi_7016mi.html I had a 1 KW version of it on Two-Meters for a short time. I still have the crystal from the exciter that put the transmitter on 146.40 MHz. Now you have some ideas to go with to begin your project. : Burt, K6OQK From: Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com A real treat would be to do the GPS receiver with tubes ;) Didier Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Otherwise you might just as well lock it up instead. Hmm, a 1970 vintage tube transmitter with a GPSDO frequency lock :-) Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will spend more time with this rig and see what works. Joe Gray W5JG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation...
Here's a better picture and block diagram of the RCA 7016 FM Exciter. The motor can be seen in the center. Notice that the plastic compartment that has the flywheel for the motor also has about 1/4 of silicon oil to act as a damper to prevent low frequency sound such as thumps from causing it to unlock. See: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~edmunds/Tube_FM_Exciter_Transmitter/rca_mi_7016_fm_exciter_reactance_tube.pdfhttp://www.pa.msu.edu/~edmunds/Tube_FM_Exciter_Transmitter/rca_mi_7016_fm_exciter_reactance_tube.pdf Burt RCA made the MI-7016 exciter for their early FM transmitters that was all tube, and phase locked to a crystal that was in the 100 kHz region. The crystal frequency was determined by dividing the desired operating frequency (88 to 108 MHz) by1296. It was lovingly called, The Iron Fireman. It had a two-phase motor that drove a capacitor in the oscillator tank. It really did perform well, even by today's standards. I think it was originally a Western Electric design. When the 7016 exciter first came out the FM band was 44 to 54 MHz, but when the band moved up to 88-108 MHz the transmitter design added a 4-125A double stage right after the exciter. Some of these rigs were still operating well up into the 70's See: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_fm_exciter_unit_mi_7016mi.htmlhttp://www.radiomuseum.org/r/rca_fm_exciter_unit_mi_7016mi.html I had a 1 KW version of it on Two-Meters for a short time. I still have the crystal from the exciter that put the transmitter on 146.40 MHz. Now you have some ideas to go with to begin your project. : Burt, K6OQK From: Didier Juges shali...@gmail.com A real treat would be to do the GPS receiver with tubes ;) Didier Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Otherwise you might just as well lock it up instead. Hmm, a 1970 vintage tube transmitter with a GPSDO frequency lock :-) Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will spend more time with this rig and see what works. Joe Gray W5JG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Paul, This is probably why they sell crystals cut for 60,002 kHz and 60,005 kHz. I ordered 10 of the 60,000 kHz crystals from DigiKey for about a buck each. The 60,002 and 60,005 crystals were only available in lots of a bazillion. It sounds like when I build the oscillator portion of the remodulator I may to have to play a wee bit to get the new carrier within tolerance of what the 8170 wants to see. Sorry to hear you've been fighting a flu bug. A lot of folks I know have recently gone through a bought of the flu. I had it for a week but it was mild compared to what some folks I know went through. I hope you're feeling 100% real soon. Burt, K6OQK At 09:26 PM 6/21/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Hello to the group Very good thread. I am recovering from a severe flu. Thats wgy I have not been around. This will be brief. 1Hz off seems to cause an issue. The 60 khz xtals from mouser all seem to always be low. So by lowering the drive and I assume loading. The 20K resistor they come into range. Don't like this and ordered a few xtals from china. Oh lets say 50. Nothing says a 6 mhz xtal and divider can't work. Just adds complexity and cost. By the way the MAS 6180 is available but the distro wants an order of 50 at $4 each. I can't take on the role of purchasing and distributing the chips. Regards Paul Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Oscillator temperature compensation...
Joe, As was mentioned earlier, U.S. AM broadcast tolerance is +/- 20 Hz. Many of the LPB low power transmitter were used for TIS/HAR service. The tolerance for that service is +/- 100 Hz. I've maintained several of these stations, including the 100 watt system on 530 kHz at LAX Airport. The transmitters were made by LPB, were all solid state, and stayed within 5 Hz for years without any adjustment. It's been a real long time since I worked on any of the tube version of these, but 200 Hz sounds like something has gone wrong. It may be a defective crystal or some component in the oscillator circuit. To your knowledge, is the crystal that's off frequency a LPB supplied crystal? The LPB's were also used for broadcast transmitters, particularly at daytime stations that had very low power nighttime authorization. Used that way they had to maintain their frequency within the +/- 20 Hz tolerance, which was never a problem with a good crystal. They are actually pretty good transmitters and are capable of 125% positive peak while keeping the negative peaks at 95% or less when driven with a real audio processor. I have one of the 30 watt solid state transmitters and one exciter board. I also have one that is an amplifier only that I'm able to drive to about 15 watts out with my bridge generator. LPB went out of business a few years ago and left a lot of customers who had pre-paid for their equipment holding the bag. I was one of them. It's a shame because they really are good transmitters. Burt, K6OQK At 09:26 PM 6/21/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote I have an old AM transmitter that has three 6AL11 compactrons. The crystal is a fundamental, cut for 660 KHz. I don't have a schematic for this thing, but I believe that one half of one 6AL11 is used for the oscillator. The problem is, the frequency decreases as the rig warms up. It will eventually stabilize, but the final frequency is over 200 Hz low. Not as good as it should be. I think the original specification was well under half of that. I have replaced the electrolytic caps. The others are mostly silver/mica with a few ceramics. I checked all of the resistors and only found one that was out of tolerance (I replaced it).Three NOS tubes were installed. There are no tunable components in the oscillator section. Only the output section has anything tunable. I know that there are many Amateurs on the list and I'm sure many know more about old tube rigs than I do. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what the trouble might be? Joe Gray W5JG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Grinding crystals...
Brian, I remember grinding FT-243 crystals. I had a TV set safety glass about 18 square and about 1/4 thick. That and some Comet type cleanser mixed with water to make a thin paste would work wonders. I was taught to put my finger on the corners and grind an equal amount on the 8 corners (4 on each side) so as not to remove the bevel of the quartz. Once I applied this lesson I was able to grind crystals that were more stable and more active. When I over-leaded them I was generally able to remove the lead using alcohol. I've still got the old TV safety glass although it has an area near one corner that is very opaque do to all the grinding that was done in that area. Those were fun days! Burt, K6OQK From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com Reminds me of the FT-243 xtal controlled transmitter Novice days. Xtals of the frequency you wanted were hard to come by. We would grind xtals a bit on a bed of very fine abrasive to raise their frequency. The other trick was taking a pencil and adding graphite to the xtal faces to lower it's frequency. You couldn't add too much or it would stop oscillating-- forever. Never did understand the forever part. Removing the graphite didn't bring it back to life. Brian K3KO Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
One thing to keep in mind about modulating with a square wave is that you can generate wide spread sidebands, so I'd give some thought to rounding it off a bit. But then the chips were talking about, and some are Schmitt Triggers, will change pretty fast and steep. I suspect in the remodulator it's not much of a problem, if at all. With regards to periods of Diurnal shift, it can get pretty wild in amplitude variations, and phase can flip all over due to reflections as the big mirror in the sky changes. Diurnal shift starts to get bad about two hours before local sunset and again, not so bad before sunrise, and again for a while after sunrise. Supposedly WWVB reception is supposed to be best when it's all daylight between the WWVB transmitter and the receiver. I've always found the WWVB signal to be more stable at night. Someone mentioned that the receiver will not track if the remodulator is as little as 1 Hz (cycle) of frequency. My 8170 has a crystal filter in the preamp, so I would imagine it would be extremely selective. I think most, if not all, of the WWVB clocks have crystal filters. The other day when I ordered my crystals I had a choice of 60 kHz, 60.002 kHz, 60.005 kHz and 60.000 kHz. The 60.002 and 60.005 were only available in Hugh quantity purchases. The 60.000 kHz was a little more expensive but I bought 10 of the little buggers anyway. I'll see how close they are when I build the remodulator. Right now I've got some revenue generating work on the bench that I need to get out of the way before getting back into the fun stuff, but it shouldn't be too long. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170... Interesting the HC will work all the way down to 2.2V so everything can be run from 3 Volts. No idea as to the effect of the xtal oscillator maybe the 3.9 M R needs to be changed. It also appears that the HC chip may doing the lions share of current consumption. Spec sheet says up to 20 Ma. Hard to believe actually. As for driving lengths of wire over distance it needs to be a buffer chip. 74hc244. But that seems like serious overkill it can drive 20 ma per port. Maybe a cd 4049... On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi I don't know of any phase tracking receiver that would be bothered by the modulator in Paul's schematic. You could implement it a couple of ways, but the net result would be the same. The AM is a bit more square wave than the WWVB signal. Modulation depth and timing would / could be dead on. snipped... That is standard for most Costas loops with an I arm... haven't looked at his schematics carefully yet... possibly one might need some kind of AGC to use it as input to a second double balanced mixer serving as modulator in order to get the right 14 (?) db AM as signal fades slowly. Not sure how deep the diurnal fades are... Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Chris, I think Paul really came up with an elegant answer. As you well know, the problem with the new format and phase locked receivers is that WWVB's phase is now being shifted for the new encoding scheme. It's this phase shifting that's messing up the phase locked receivers like the Spectracom 8170. Part of Paul's circuit generates a new 60 kHz signal that's not phase shifted. The receiver portion of his circuit decodes the dips that WWVB still transmits, and outputs the data which is used to turn on and off a switch that drops the new 60 kHz signal by approximately 14 dB in sync with the WWVB dips. I'm going to build this circuit, but I'm planning on using the receive module out of one of the many Atomic Clocks that I have around. I guess you could ask, Why don't I just put the Atomic clock on the wall in my shoppe and forget about the 8170? An honest answer to that is, that's no fun. In a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB signal to the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the signal signal. This way I don't have to mess with the insides of the 8170. Burt, K6OQK From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the spectracom 8170 the I'm looking at the schematic. I thought the goal was to get the 60KHz signal from WWVB to the HP unit. This schematic sends an approximatly 60KHz signal from the tuning fork to the HP. but copies the AM modulation from WWVB. So the 8170 does not look at the 60KHz carrier? and only cars about the time code? Maybe another way then is to bypasss the radio inside the 8170 and just send the demodulated logic bit Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Chris, The 8170 was originally intended to be a frequency reference source tied to the USFS (United Stated Frequency Standard). It also gave the time of day, but I believe that wasn't it's primary purpose. As I recall, there were some versions that did not have the clock readout and some that had a chart recorder. Back in the 80's I used to drool (it was a disgusting sight!) over the Spectracom receivers with the chart recorders. At that time I was usuing a Gertsch RLF-1 with an external Moseley 680 chart recorder. The remodulator precludes it from being used as a frequency standard, but in my opinion, so does the fact that WWVB is now phase shifted a bunch. The 8170 uses a coherent detector and that's where the problem lies. While the 8170 still locks to the WWVB carrier, the new BPSK scheme causes the detector to output bad data in spite of the original dips in the carrier still being present. I had always wondered how it was able to pull the data out the noise, but never had a manual until just recently. I had naively assumed that the WWVB new BPSK scheme would not affect the time of day aspect of the 8170. Like I said, I only use it as a clock in my shoppe, and being an old dog I don't easily learn new tricks such as looking in a different direction for one of the other clocks. Burt, K6OQK From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com At 02:08 PM 6/17/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Yes, I see what it does. It is a simple circuit. But I just thought (wrongly, now I see) that the 8170 somehow used the 60KHz signal for some purpose. I gues not, It is just a carrier that is discarded. Some receivers used the 60HKz signal as a 60KHz frequency reference and phase locked their internal clock to the 60KHz signal. I gues the 8170 does not do that. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] MAS6180 chip...
Perrier, I decided that it might be easier to just rob the entire receiver out of an Atomic Clock. They're certainly cheap enough. I've seen them on eBay for under $10.00. Burt, K6OQK Paul, Where does one get the chip?? I had no luck with Mouser or Digikey. Also on the data sheet they showed the chip in a 20DIP package.? Is it available.? It will be dead bug circuitry. Regards, Perrier Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb...
Paul, Looking forward to seeing what you did. I'm an old dog and don't seem to learn new tricks such as looking at the other clocks in my shoppe to see what time it is. I keep looking at the 8170. Burt, K6OQK To: Time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 is sync'ed to wwvb. Nice to see it again As I mentioned earlier. Simply built up a AM rcvr using a MSA8160 clock chip and then a inverter clock oscillator with a 60 Khz xtal and some and gates. The spectracom came right up immediately locked the VCO and then decoded time. Sweet. Cost sub $10. Will chicken scratch a drawing sometime tomorrow and share out. Notes are a bit messy. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 grief... Watching the problem...
I just uploaded a video to YouTube of my scope display. Others have also made similar videos. You can see it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um8HxRHkkKw Pardon the fan noise. Burt, K6OQK Gang, I took a look at the WWVB signal using a 1:1 Lissajou signal the same way I do for the FMT's. Using a 10:1 scope probe I sampled off the output of the pre-amp in the 8170 and fed it into a HP-3586B tuned to 60 kHz and compared the resultant I.F. against a HP-3336A tuned to the 15625 I.F. Both the 3586B and the 3336A are GPS locked. I won't go into the nitty gritties of how I do this, but f anyone's interested they can see my FMT Methodology at: http://www.k5cm.com/k6OQK%20FMT%20NEW.htm What I saw was the phase of the WWVB signal shifting back and forth 180 Degrees coincident with the dips in the carrier. Coincidentally, this is what all of you have been telling me, but, just the same, it was interesting to watch. The duration of each shift obviously are a form of zeros, ones and place holder. I'm wondering if the code used to shift the phase is the same code as carried in the legacy system where the duration of the carrier dips corresponds to the ones and zeros, and the place holder. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
Joe, All of the SkyScan clocks I know of have failed. I have two of them that no longer work. However, I have two made by Junghan's that seem to be fine. Take a look at www.junghansUSA.com Burt Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...(WWVB Clock) Well, it 'killed' my two. The website for the manufacturer of mine (both SkyScan, cheap from Sam's) stated that there was a problem with WWVB. I'll keep an eye out for a replacement. Joe Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 grief... Watching the problem...
Gang, I took a look at the WWVB signal using a 1:1 Lissajou signal the same way I do for the FMT's. Using a 10:1 scope probe I sampled off the output of the pre-amp in the 8170 and fed it into a HP-3586B tuned to 60 kHz and compared the resultant I.F. against a HP-3336A tuned to the 15625 I.F. Both the 3586B and the 3336A are GPS locked. I won't go into the nitty gritties of how I do this, but f anyone's interested they can see my FMT Methodology at: http://www.k5cm.com/k6OQK%20FMT%20NEW.htm What I saw was the phase of the WWVB signal shifting back and forth 180 Degrees coincident with the dips in the carrier. Coincidentally, this is what all of you have been telling me, but, just the same, it was interesting to watch. The duration of each shift obviously are a form of zeros, ones and place holder. I'm wondering if the code used to shift the phase is the same code as carried in the legacy system where the duration of the carrier dips corresponds to the ones and zeros, and the place holder. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure...
My HP-3336A was purchased from an auction (not eBay) and came out of a Southern California lab that was shutting down. The small heat sink ran awfully hot. I added a larger heat sink and it eventually became pretty hot also. What I discovered was the line voltage was set to 100 volts, not 120 volts. I know for sure that this instrument was used in the US. Changing it to 110-120 resolved the problem and it now runs cool. I should've checked the line voltage setting when it arrived, but I just assumed... Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure Talking of Cooling HP 5370's, I have a 12V fan Gorilla taped to mine fed from a wallwart. Not elegant, but it has reduced the heat sink temperature dramatically. Is anyone else concerned about the heat sink temperature on the 5370? Has anyone done a fan modification they would care to share? Also, my 8566A RF section pass transistor heat sink gets awfully warm too, does anyone have a sensible solution? -marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
Paul, Thanks for the information. Late last night I did a search and found out about the d-pskr-r - an appropriate name, indeed. I gather there is no final design that says, Here, build this and it'll work. I have a malady that I suspect is common in this group; I hate to throw anything away or convert it to a door stop. Supposedly, WWVB reverts back to the non-psk mode twice a day, at 12:00 Noon and again at 12:00 Midnight, each time for 30 minutes. Last night my 8170 did not set. At my location the signal has been the most stable during the day, so I'm going to watch it today at noon. I'll report my useless findings afterwards. If it were to set once every 24 hours I would probably be happy as I'm not using it to time a network, just to hopefully be a little more accurate than my 30 year old kitchen clock. By the way... Earlier I mentioned that I have two 9150-52054 GPS units. Apparently my mind and fingers were not speaking to each other at that moment as I have should've typed, (DATUM) 9390-52054. Both of these run 24/7, use separate antennas and are on a UPS. I'm sure you've seen my various epistles in this group about them. Since I've changed out their power supplies and upgraded their crystal oscillators, they're most happy. Burt, K6OQK www.biwa.cc Burt search time nuts its all there. Its not a kit by any means. Spectracom did a very good job. To good, though in reality they simply reused the phase tracking rcvr from other units. Essentially the system locks to the stable carrier creating a local replica and then removes the carrier recovering just the AM. Or think of it as subtracting the carrier leaving just the data. Very good design very bad for PSK, since the carrier no longer has a relationship. Nist and spectracom did put notices and such out for over a year, so what can you say. Though we all have lots of strong opinions actually. Don't want to start that thread again. I have often thought and will spend no time doing it. Simply replace the demod with a diode detector. Now its not actually quite that easy. But if the only thing I had was a 8170 what the heck. The schematics of the system are available at spectracom. Near as I can tell the 8170 would run about 2 days on a fix. Off to seriously sleazzy land. You could always bugger a gps clock into the system adapting GPS time to local time by a micro. But that really is ugly. Though you end up with those nice clock digits working again. Hey when you do that send me the old rcvr parts. ;-) Regards Paul. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Paul, U... What a revolting development this is. My 9150-52054 have a smaller readout out that I can't see without climbing up on my bench, so I suppose I will no longer know what time it is. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] No physical support style construction...
When I was in Jr. High School I built a CW transmitter using a 6AG7 crystal controlled oscillator and an 807 for the final. The interesting part was that I did not use a chassis. I simple connected all the parts together, power supply and all, in sort of a heap on my work bench. (I'm sure it would've kept transmitting somewhere had I pulled the crystal out of it's socket.) It worked and I made several contacts. AND I saved money by not buying a chassis. Sometimes I wonder how I've managed to live long enough to become this ancient. Burt, K6OQK Behalf Of paul swed Joe Thats really a silly statement. The issue is this, we tech types put things in rows and columns. But true artists use dead bug style with lots of wire and parts flying everyplace. Put the whole glob in a picture frame and you have a seriously worthy piece of art. How could your wife complain? Plus you get time out of it. Its all about how you sell it. Regards Paul Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
Well, at 12:00 Noon I watched to see what would happen (I wonder if the 12:00 Noon is pacific or elsewhere?) The problem continued. So apparently the twice a day legacy time signal is, as Paul said, no more. Checking around home we have several atomic clocks. Based on my GPS clock time, they are all off by many seconds. A friend of mine observes the same thing with all of his atomic clocks.. So now the question is, where do you find clocks that should set with the new WWVB Format? Burt, K6OQK From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Burt what you mention was indeed correct. But that non psk time was stopped about a month ago. Its pure PSK now as far as I know On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Paul, Thanks for the information. Late last night I did a search and found out about the d-pskr-r - an appropriate name, indeed. I gather there is no final design that says, Here, build this and it'll work. I have a malady that I suspect is common in this group; I hate to throw anything away or convert it to a door stop. Supposedly, WWVB reverts back to the non-psk mode twice a day, at 12:00 Noon and again at 12:00 Midnight, each time for 30 minutes. Last night my 8170 did not set. At my location the signal has been the most stable during the day, so I'm going to watch it today at noon. I'll report my useless findings afterwards. If it were to set once every 24 hours I would probably be happy as I'm not using it to time a network, just to hopefully be a little more accurate than my 30 year old kitchen clock. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
Answering my own question... I happen to remember a Junghans Atomic Clock that is in one of my equipment case. I dug in and pulled it out and discovered much to my glee, that it was set to the correct time and the day counter since it was last set was at zero. So apparently it's still working fine. Here's a link to the clocks I have: http://www.junghansusa.com/Category/713_1/Atomic_Clocks.aspx Really nice clocks for field work. Burt, K6OQK I wrote in part... So now the question is, where do you find clocks that should set with the new WWVB Format? Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
My good old Spectracom 8170 is not setting time. I don't use it for frequency, just as a clock for my Hazetorium. I live about 20 minutes north of downtown Los Angles in Glendale. The antenna I'm using is the Ferrite Rod loop in PVC that came with the 8170. It's located on my back porch just laying on the floor with its maximum pickup direction towards Boulder, Colorado. It has worked reliably for many years in that location. The symptoms are... One day about a month ago I noticed that it seemed to be in the start mode, that is, the far left digit was flashing between 0, 1, 2, and a lot of 4's, and the left most digits were counting time since an apparent restart. Zeros and ones are the logical data states, two is a place holder and four indicates data errors. I'm not aware of it having lost primary power, but it's not on a UPS. In a week's time it did not give me time sync, but shows a green locked light most of the time. This happened several years ago and a fellow at Spectracom told me to change all the electrolytics on the one board that has only 4 electrolytics on it. I did and it started to work just peachy-keen. The caps I put in then were of good quality, but I decided to change them again. This did not solve the problem. The power supply voltages are all well within limits and they look clean. I seem to have plenty of, but not too much, signal. By that I mean it doesn't appear to be oscillating. The antenna is about 30' away from the receiver on a piece of coax that appears to look ok. What I do notice is that the signal looks like it's going through quite a bit of turbulence. I do not see anything that looks like interference. I've looked at the output of the filter amp inside the 8170 and what I see is the signal dithering in amplitude quite rapidly and sometimes squaring off for a moment - sort of what you would expect to see during the Diurnal Shift periods of the day. I can see the 10 dB drops, but they're not very clean due to the rapid dithering. I've checked the antenna connections and tried different azimuth headings. The location and azimuth it has been for years still seems to be the best. Looking at the output of what I'm guessing is a Schmitt Trigger, I see the ST's output jumping from 0 to +5, but erratically, which considering the received signal, makes sense. I'm wondering if I'm just in a period of time that's receiving a poor quality signal? It doesn't seem like WWVB's new phase-modulated format should be causing this kind of a problem. All observations, opinions and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
Paul, U... What a revolting development this is. My 9150-52054 have a smaller readout out that I can't see without climbing up on my bench, so I suppose I will no longer know what time it is. I've never really had to delve into the 8170 so I wasn't up to speed on how they derived the data from the carrier prior to the new PSK format. I was under the misunderstanding that it was strictly from amplitude variation. I guess it is, except for the manner in which they determine the changes. Please tell me about the d-psk-r you mentioned. Also do you know the times of day WWVB reverts to the old method and for how long? I'll have to go to their site and see. Burt, K6OQK At 04:46 PM 6/12/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Burt One other tidbit the phase mod will exactly cause what you see. Spectracom used phase tracking to demodulate the AM time signal. Thats why its nuts. On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:49 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Burt There is nothing wrong with your 8170. WWVB no longer allows it to work correctly because of the phase modulation. They went to all psk about 1 month ago. They had been reverting back twice a day for things like the 8170. So the ole 8170 is dead. You need to build something like the d-psk-r to get it going though I have not had time to actually add the am phase flipper precisely for the likes of a 8170. I have one also. Sorry Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: My good old Spectracom 8170 is not setting time. I don't use it for frequency, just as a clock for my Hazetorium. I live about 20 minutes north of downtown Los Angles in Glendale. The antenna I'm using is the Ferrite Rod loop in PVC that came with the 8170. It's located on my back porch just laying on the floor with its maximum pickup direction towards Boulder, Colorado. It has worked reliably for many years in that location. The symptoms are... Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPDATE: DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
Another update... I wanted to post more in the hopes that it may help someone else with similar problems. I told you about adding the simple voltage divider to reduce the drive to the circuits following the replacement of the original oscillator module. When I thought all was well I put the DATUM 9390-52054 back in the rack and it locked up quickly. I soon discovered that I didn't have enough output to lock some of my externally referenced equipment. A comparison between my two 9390's showed that the repaired one was about 15 dB low in output! Just for fun I removed the voltage divider and ran the replacement oscillator's output directly to the following circuitry, just as the original oscillator did. Testing, which I fully expected to give me the problem of driving the DAC and EFC voltage out of range, showed that all was well and the 9390's output levels were within a dB of DATUM's specs. So, what happened earlier that caused me to think it was being over-driven. I haven't any idea! I've run it through several power cycles, some overnight, and it always comes back up with such happiness, and with the DAC around 28400 and the EFC at 2.15 volts - right where it's supposed to be. The only thing I can think of is that I did something foolish in my initial testing with the replacement oscillator. The unit has been sitting in the rack for over 48 hours with no issues. According to it's screen the frequency error is 1E-12 and the output level is where it should be. Thanks to everyone for your input, you've given me a good understanding of how this particular GPS module works. I hope my experience will be of some value down the road. I'll keep you posted on any further 9390 adventures. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK I had earlier written: When I powered the 9390 up everything seemed to work and the oscillator was within 1-Hertz, except that the output was about 20 dB higher than with the original oscillator was when it was working properly. Once the receiver locked up to 4 satellites and started OSC Stabilizing, the oscillator suddenly jumped about 18 Hz low and shortly afterwards the DAC went to all zeros. I let it sit all night figuring that it would eventually find itself. Well, it didn't, it just sat at 18 Hz low and the DAC at all zeros, and the EFC (Electronic Frequency Control) voltage at 0.19 Volts. (What a revolting development!) Very early this AM I got up and put a simple 10:1 voltage divider using a series 680 Ohm and 68 Ohm resistor from the oscillator's RF out to ground This brought the levels pretty much back to the same as my good 9390. I also substituted a pot for the EFC voltage. I used a 1 K pot in series with a 300 Ohm resistor to the 5 Volt rail. The resistor was on the high side, the bottom end to ground, and the wiper to the EFC terminal. I was able to tune the oscillator to precisely 10 MHz long enough to measure the substitute EFC at +2.15 Volts. Leaving it hooked up this way I let the receiver do it's thing just to see what would happen. It went through it's normal routine and finally the green lock light came on. Although the oscillator wasn't being controlled by the 9390, the 9390 thought it was happy and the DAC went to about 28,000 - very close to ideal. I tweaked the pot hither and yon to move the frequency and to see which way the EFC voltage went. It went the right direction to properly steer the oscillator and should have worked. Pondering the situation, I powered the 9390 down and reconnected the 9390's EFC voltage back up to see what would happen this time. This time it locked up quickly and the oscillator homed in on 10 MHz. The EFC voltage is 2.15 Volts and the DAC settled in nicely at 28302 - very close to the recommended DAC numbers. It's been cooking for about an hour now and is presently at 112E-12 and moving closer all the time. When comparing the two GPS receivers I am not seeing the random drifts that I had seen in the past. I suspect that the problem with the frequency jumping to -18 Hz and the DAC going to all zeros was the result of the new oscillator over-driving the following circuitry. In hindsight, maybe I should have probed a bit with the scope to see if that is a correct assumption, but I didn't do that. By the way, Stu sells the oscillators fully tested and with a note giving the EFC voltage for each unit to tune it to 10 MHz. If this turns out to be as good a modification as it now appears, I'm going to get more of the oscillators from him. I may replace the one in my other 9390 and for sure will replace internal reference oscillator in my IFR-1500 Service Monitor. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
[time-nuts] UPDATE: DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
From what you're describing, this is what I have, and this could explain why I had trouble getting the unit to lock. Now that I've replaced the 10 MHz oscillator, the receiver finds and starts tracking satellites within about 3 minutes from an overnight off. Burt, K6OQK At 06:24 AM 4/14/2013 someone wrote: I have an ancient 9390 that has an ancient Trimble GPS board in it that takes a 16.368 reference synthesized from the 10 MHz standard in a PLL loop with a VXCO. This is used in the L band downconversion... and for timing generally and given that is PLL derived from the 10 MHz quite likely if the 10 MHz is significantly wrong the receiver won't find satellites. I remember I had to fix this PLL in my box before the receiver in that box would lock up... initially the PLL wasn't locked, but the 16.368 VCXO output WAS present - so for that receiver it has to be pretty close to right on to work. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] UPDATE: DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
know what this is saying. Burt (Note: additional information about the receiver module has been added.) Burt Gang, You will remember several months ago I had some stranges that I thought were related to a defective Vectron oscillator in one of my DATUM 9390-52054. That turned out to be a the internal switching power supply so I replaced it with an external Cisco unit. I've done this in three units, two are mine and one belongs to Stu, K6YAZ. Well, I now have a different grief in one of my units. It had been cooking along swell with no problem ever since I replaced the power supply. This morning I notice that one of my units had the lock and tracking lights out. The display said that the signal level was low and there were no usable satellites. The 10 MHz output is also about 20 or more dB low. I assumed the power supply is all right because the display was working and it said it was 9-E9, not so good, but working - sorta. I swapped antennas and the good Datum was happy so I know the antenna is ok. when I got inside I checked the power supply rails and they're within .05 Volts of where they should be. There is 5 Volts on the GPS module and there is 4.96 Volts on the antenna Type-N connector (measured with the antenna line disconnected.) Power cycling the DATUM did not resolve the problem. Does anyone know if the symptoms above will occur if the 10 MHz oscillator is defective? I can understand it not tracking or not locked, but could this cause the receiver to not see or indicate any satellites? Since I only have two of these units on line, I'm very reluctant to start swapping modules because I would be without any working reference, so I need to keep one up and running. Both of my units are on a UPS, and according to the clocks in the kitchen, the bedroom, and the old VCR, we've not had a power interruption. I do not recognize the GPS receiver module, but it has the following number on it: TNL 22880-B. I have the schematics for the overall DATUM 9390-25054, but the GPS module in just a block. By the way, the GPS block on the DATUM overall schematic is marked, SV6 / (TANS). I suspect this means something noteworthy. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Burt Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
Gang, You will remember several months ago I had some stranges that I thought were related to a defective Vectron oscillator in one of my DATUM 9390-52054. That turned out to be a the internal switching power supply so I replaced it with an external Cisco unit. I've done this in three units, two are mine and one belongs to Stu, K6YAZ. Well, I now have a different grief in one of my units. It had been cooking along swell with no problem ever since I replaced the power supply. This morning I notice that one of my units had the lock and tracking lights out. The display said that the signal level was low and there were no usable satellites. The 10 MHz output is also about 20 or more dB low. I assumed the power supply is all right because the display was working and it said it was 9-E9, not so good, but working - sorta. I swapped antennas and the good Datum was happy so I know the antenna is ok. when I got inside I checked the power supply rails and they're within .05 Volts of where they should be. There is 5 Volts on the GPS module and there is 4.96 Volts on the antenna Type-N connector (measured with the antenna line disconnected.) Power cycling the DATUM did not resolve the problem. Does anyone know if the symptoms above will occur if the 10 MHz oscillator is defective? I can understand it not tracking or not locked, but could this cause the receiver to not see or indicate any satellites? Since I only have two of these units on line, I'm very reluctant to start swapping modules because I would be without any working reference, so I need to keep one up and running. Both of my units are on a UPS, and according to the clocks in the kitchen, the bedroom, and the old VCR, we've not had a power interruption. I do not recognize the GPS receiver module, but it has the following number on it: TNL 22880-B. I have the schematics for the overall DATUM 9390-25054, but the GPS module in just a block. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Burt Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
(Note: additional information about the receiver module has been added.) Burt Gang, You will remember several months ago I had some stranges that I thought were related to a defective Vectron oscillator in one of my DATUM 9390-52054. That turned out to be a the internal switching power supply so I replaced it with an external Cisco unit. I've done this in three units, two are mine and one belongs to Stu, K6YAZ. Well, I now have a different grief in one of my units. It had been cooking along swell with no problem ever since I replaced the power supply. This morning I notice that one of my units had the lock and tracking lights out. The display said that the signal level was low and there were no usable satellites. The 10 MHz output is also about 20 or more dB low. I assumed the power supply is all right because the display was working and it said it was 9-E9, not so good, but working - sorta. I swapped antennas and the good Datum was happy so I know the antenna is ok. when I got inside I checked the power supply rails and they're within .05 Volts of where they should be. There is 5 Volts on the GPS module and there is 4.96 Volts on the antenna Type-N connector (measured with the antenna line disconnected.) Power cycling the DATUM did not resolve the problem. Does anyone know if the symptoms above will occur if the 10 MHz oscillator is defective? I can understand it not tracking or not locked, but could this cause the receiver to not see or indicate any satellites? Since I only have two of these units on line, I'm very reluctant to start swapping modules because I would be without any working reference, so I need to keep one up and running. Both of my units are on a UPS, and according to the clocks in the kitchen, the bedroom, and the old VCR, we've not had a power interruption. I do not recognize the GPS receiver module, but it has the following number on it: TNL 22880-B. I have the schematics for the overall DATUM 9390-25054, but the GPS module in just a block. By the way, the GPS block on the DATUM overall schematic is marked, SV6 / (TANS). I suspect this means something noteworthy. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Burt Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] More information...DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
I notice that when it first turns on there is a message where I normally expect to see System Check ok. The message reads: N200/S116/DT202KP. I don't know what this is saying. Burt (Note: additional information about the receiver module has been added.) Burt Gang, You will remember several months ago I had some stranges that I thought were related to a defective Vectron oscillator in one of my DATUM 9390-52054. That turned out to be a the internal switching power supply so I replaced it with an external Cisco unit. I've done this in three units, two are mine and one belongs to Stu, K6YAZ. Well, I now have a different grief in one of my units. It had been cooking along swell with no problem ever since I replaced the power supply. This morning I notice that one of my units had the lock and tracking lights out. The display said that the signal level was low and there were no usable satellites. The 10 MHz output is also about 20 or more dB low. I assumed the power supply is all right because the display was working and it said it was 9-E9, not so good, but working - sorta. I swapped antennas and the good Datum was happy so I know the antenna is ok. when I got inside I checked the power supply rails and they're within .05 Volts of where they should be. There is 5 Volts on the GPS module and there is 4.96 Volts on the antenna Type-N connector (measured with the antenna line disconnected.) Power cycling the DATUM did not resolve the problem. Does anyone know if the symptoms above will occur if the 10 MHz oscillator is defective? I can understand it not tracking or not locked, but could this cause the receiver to not see or indicate any satellites? Since I only have two of these units on line, I'm very reluctant to start swapping modules because I would be without any working reference, so I need to keep one up and running. Both of my units are on a UPS, and according to the clocks in the kitchen, the bedroom, and the old VCR, we've not had a power interruption. I do not recognize the GPS receiver module, but it has the following number on it: TNL 22880-B. I have the schematics for the overall DATUM 9390-25054, but the GPS module in just a block. By the way, the GPS block on the DATUM overall schematic is marked, SV6 / (TANS). I suspect this means something noteworthy. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Burt Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again...
Hal, The two Dautm 9390-52054's that I have are about 15 to 20 years old. I did a google search earlier, but didn't find anything that quite looks like the GPS module inside my unit. I don't know if I can post a picture to this site, but I'll take a picture of the GPS module and give it a try. Since I posted the first and 2nd message about this problem, I've since posted what I'm sure is an error message: N200/S116/DT202KP. I have no idea what this is telling me. Thanks for your input. Burt At 04:12 PM 4/6/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] DATUM 9390-52054 Grief again... b...@att.net said: By the way, the GPS block on the DATUM overall schematic is marked, SV6 / (TANS). I suspect this means something noteworthy. SV6 or SVeeSix is an old old old Trimble module. Google finds stuff. I picked up a couple many years ago, or at least they were described as SV6. They match the picture here, including the box around the PCB. http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~geoff36/gps.htm I think they were used for tracking trucks. The PCB inside the box is 1.8 x 3.3 inches. That doesn't match the picture I found in a manual from Trimble. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?
Gang, I'm following this thread with great interest, but, just for my own reference, what is considered low power supply noise? Can you give me some numbers and over what bandwidth? Thanks, Burt, K6OQK time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? Hi To answer the original question - Power Design makes some pretty quiet bench supplies. If you are doing low noise testing, batteries often will let you get rid of one more ground loop. Even well built power supplies are not as well line isolated as a battery. Bob Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?
Bob, I have a pair of HP-3551A's*. I'm very familiar with making transmission lines measurements, and it seems that measuring power supply noise would be the same, except that you want to block the DC from the input of the instrument. What has your procedure been and what numbers have you come up with? Since these instruments read in dBm0, do you reference from the supply's voltage and then convert to mV (difference)? * One that I picked up off eBay for $75.00 looks new and came with the complete manual, and the battery will run it most of the day. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies? A non-standard but repeatable way to measure power supply noise is to use a Transmission Impairment Measuring Set (TIMS) such as the HP3945(6)A or 3551 (2)A. These were intended for use in pairs to assess analog telephone lines for data use. As well as an AF generator, frequency counter, amplifier, monitor speaker and level meter they will measure broadband noise. Being designed for POTS they will also withstand at least 50V DC at the input while measuring the noise. You can also apply internal filters if required. The last digit designates a North American? (BELL) or European (CCITT) standard unit, but broadband noise is the same. They can be picked up really cheaply now (list was$3000-$5000) and make a nice compact audio test set. Robert G8RPI. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Spectracom problems - was, used Spectracom...
Paul, I don't know if this will be of any help for your particular situation, but several years ago I had a problem where my Spectracom 8170 would not lock. I checked and found that I had good, clean signal at the input spigot and the voltage going to the antenna was clean and correct. After being patient with him for plenty of time, I finally broke down and called Spectracom and reached someone in service. What he said to me was: There's a board with 4 electrolytics on it. Change the electrolytics and he'll be fine. (This is not the receiver board) I did and my 8170 started working again. In fact, he was locking up and staying locked better than he had in all his previous life with me. A few years later, and for some reason that escapes me now, I shot-gunned the entire receiver with new, high quality electrolytics. I do not use him as a frequency standard, only for a fancy-shmancy clock. As far as how well he keeps time these days; he agrees with my two DATUM 9390-52054 receivers as best as my eyes jumping between the three of them can see. By the way, speaking of my two 9390's, since I replaced the Caritronics switching power supply module inside with an external Cisco ADP-30RB, both are working fine and seem happy around 1E-12 and a DAC of about 29000. Burt, K6OQK Burt I don't know what to say at all but the bpsk signal does a number to my 8170. So all I can do is scratch my head. Lucky you. Regards Paul. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Paul, I just went out to my shoppe and looked. Mine is locked and has been for most of the day, with two green lights. Some time ago I added a meter to the front panel that I connected to one of the test points. It's currently fairly steady except for the normal dips in carrier strength. About this time of day it usually starts to go nuts because of the Diurnal shift. I'm in Glendale, CA, just north of Downtown Los Angeles. My WWVB antenna is a ferrite rod type in a PVC tube. It's been laying by the side of the house on the ground for over 15 years. That's where I've always gotten the cleanest signal - found that out when we re-roofed the house. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Used Spectracom
I'm not sure what the status of the new modulation scheme is at the moment, but my Spectracom 8170 is still keeping good time. That's about all I use it for anymore - a clock in the rack. It says it's locked. Burt, K6OQK Behalf Of Joseph Gray Subject: [time-nuts] Used Spectracom I find it amusing the number of Spectracom WWVB receivers that are on ebay lately. With the prices being asked, it looks like everyone is trying to dump these on the unsuspecting and make a killing on obsolete equipment. If they were dirt cheap, I'd probably pick one up. If you could wire in an external standard, it would still be useful for the phase comparator. At the listed prices, they can keep them. Joe Gray W5JG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Used Spectracom
Paul, I just went out to my shoppe and looked. Mine is locked and has been for most of the day, with two green lights. Some time ago I added a meter to the front panel that I connected to one of the test points. It's currently fairly steady except for the normal dips in carrier strength. About this time of day it usually starts to go nuts because of the Diurnal shift. I'm in Glendale, CA, just north of Downtown Los Angeles. My WWVB antenna is a ferrite rod type in a PVC tube. It's been laying by the side of the house on the ground for over 15 years. That's where I've always gotten the cleanest signal - found that out when we re-roofed the house. Burt, K6OQK From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Spectracom Quite odd my 8170 absolutely will not lock On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I'm not sure what the status of the new modulation scheme is at the moment, but my Spectracom 8170 is still keeping good time. That's about all I use it for anymore - a clock in the rack. It says it's locked. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Not Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges...
SATURDAY EVENING Gang, More update and good news... I removed the Caritronics switcher supply module and connected the Cisco ADP-30RB supply in its place. I'm pleased to announce that my DATUM 9390 is happy. The power supply noise is less than 5 mV on all three rails under load. I'm letting him cook and after about 8 hours he's presently locked at 6E-12. The 10 kHz sidebands are gone or at least 80 dB below the 10 MHz signal and the Cisco power supply is only a tad above ambient temperature. I found that a Molex 6 pin male will mate with the connector on the end of the Cisco power supply cable. It's possible to plug the connector in, but rotated 180 degrees, so that's of concern. I'm looking at a few options to change the connector for positive keying. I'm also concerned about any future problems causing the Cisco supply to spike and do some serious damage. I may add a crowbar preceeded by a fuse on each of the 3 rails. Maybe I'm being over cautious, but having once lost the mother board on my HP-3336A, I'm a bit nervous. Anyway, I wanted to let the gang know what has transpired. I'll let you know what I do about the connector. Burt, K6OQK FRIDAY EVENING Gang, Just to give the group and update... The Caritronic switching supply in the DATUM 9390 completely failed this afternoon, so obviously it was on its last leg. I did find Caritronics and they are very nice people, but expensive. My friend Stu, K6YAZ told me he had a Cisco power supply model ADP-30RB, which puts out +12 VDC at 2.0 AMPS, -12 Volts at 0.200 AMP, and 5 Volts at 3.0 AMPS. Sounds like just what I need and it's about the same size as the DATUM outboard 12 Volt supply that comes with the 9390. Stu brought it over this evening and I was going to test it and then connect it up and see if that would solve my problem. I quickly discovered however, my wife had other plans for me for this evening. I may be able to do a little in the morning, but most likely not till Monday afternoon. The ADP-30RB is readily available on eBay (I bought two more that are guaranteed for a total of $12.00). I'll let you know how this progresses. Burt, K6OQK Ed, Thanks for you suggestions. I took a look at the control line and saw about 100 mV of grunge and then took a look at the +12 volts going to the oscillator and saw about 2 volts of the same stuff. I then went and took a look at the DC to DC Converter's output and saw the same, about 2 volts of grunge and about 1 volt of grunge on the -12 Volt line. The 5 Volt line looks fine. I need to cobble up a +/- 12 Volt supply (ref to ground) to substitute the on board DC to DC Converter and see if that solves the problem. The converter is made by a company called Caritronics. Never heard of them. I'll see what google tells me. I don't really need the DC to DC converter as I never run the thing off of 12 Volts, but I've thought about it. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:48:38 -0800 From: Ed Breya e...@telight.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges... Can you completely swap the Vectron crystal oscillator modules between the Datum units? Maybe the fault lies in the other part. If they are GPSDOs, each must have a DAC somewhere driving the tuning control line to the VCXO, The 10 kHz may be the DAC serial data rate, or a PWM rate for fine tuning. A fault in that area could cause the sidebands. Maybe you really did hear data. If you can hang a fairly large (several uF or more) plastic capacitor on the tuning line without causing the whole thing to oscillate, you may be able to observe a decrease in the sideband amplitude - a sure indicator that the tuning signal carries the problem. Ed Oops - regarding that capacitance test on the tuning line, I meant to say up to several uF or more. You can start small to see if there's any effect. It all depends on the impedance of the tuning line circuitry, and the existing amount of filtering - you may need quite a bit of C to swamp it out and show a noticeable effect. You're not looking for necessarily normal or perfectly-settled operation under the test condition, just the relative effect on the sidebands. Ed Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges...
Just to give the group and update... The Caritronic switching supply in the DATUM 9390 completely failed this afternoon, so obviously it was on its last leg. I did find Caritronics and they are very nice people, but expensive. My friend Stu, K6YAZ told me he had a Cisco power supply model ADP-30RB, which puts out +12 VDC at 2.0 AMPS, -12 Volts at 0.200 AMP, and 5 Volts at 3.0 AMPS. Sounds like just what I need and it's about the same size as the DATUM outboard 12 Volt supply that comes with the 9390. He brought it over this evening and I was going to test it and then connect it up and see if that would solve my problem. I quickly discovered however, my wife had other plans for me for this evening. I may be able to do a little in the morning, but most likely not till Monday afternoon. The ADP-30RB is readily available on eBay (I bought two more that are guaranteed for a total of $12.00). I'll let you know how this progresses. Burt, K6OQK Ed, Thanks for you suggestions. I took a look at the control line and saw about 100 mV of grunge and then took a look at the +12 volts going to the oscillator and saw about 2 volts of the same stuff. I then went and took a look at the DC to DC Converter's output and say the same about 2 volts of grunge and about 1 volt of grunge on the -12 Volt line. The 5 Volt line looks fine. I need to cobble up a +/- 12 Volt supply (ref to ground) to substitute the on board DC to DC Converter and see if that solves the problem. The converter is made by a company called Caritronics. Never heard of them. I'll see what google tells me. I don't really need the DC to DC converter as I never run the thing off of 12 Volts, but I've thought about it. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:48:38 -0800 From: Ed Breya e...@telight.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges... Can you completely swap the Vectron crystal oscillator modules between the Datum units? Maybe the fault lies in the other part. If they are GPSDOs, each must have a DAC somewhere driving the tuning control line to the VCXO, The 10 kHz may be the DAC serial data rate, or a PWM rate for fine tuning. A fault in that area could cause the sidebands. Maybe you really did hear data. If you can hang a fairly large (several uF or more) plastic capacitor on the tuning line without causing the whole thing to oscillate, you may be able to observe a decrease in the sideband amplitude - a sure indicator that the tuning signal carries the problem. Ed Oops - regarding that capacitance test on the tuning line, I meant to say up to several uF or more. You can start small to see if there's any effect. It all depends on the impedance of the tuning line circuitry, and the existing amount of filtering - you may need quite a bit of C to swamp it out and show a noticeable effect. You're not looking for necessarily normal or perfectly-settled operation under the test condition, just the relative effect on the sidebands. Ed Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges...
Gang, I have two DATUM 9390-52054 Disciplined Oscillators that use a Vectron International model 716Y2690 crystal oscillator module. One of the two units is showing 10 kHz sidebands about 35 dB down from the main 10 MHz carrier, and looking at them on my spectrum analyzer, they appear to be modulated whereas the main 10 MHz signal looks clean. The other unit is not showing these sidebands. Listening to the sidebands I'm hearing what might be data. I first became aware of this problem a week or so ago when using the defective unit as the reference for my off-air frequency measurement service (see: www.biwa.cc) It was diluting my precision, so I suppose it is the same as phase noise. Anyway, I'm looking for any application notes on this module and also wondering if anyone else has experienced such problems. I've swapped the power supply with the good unit and the problem stays with the original defective unit. I'm thinking the real problem may be filter or bootstrap filter caps on the defective unit's circuit board. I really need to probe the control and supply voltages going to the oscillator module to be sure they are clean. I'm also looking for another oscillator module. I've got a call into Vectron, but so far, no return call from them. All suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges...
Ed, Thanks for you suggestions. I took a look at the control line and saw about 100 mV of grunge and then took a look at the +12 volts going to the oscillator and saw about 2 volts of the same stuff. I then went and took a look at the DC to DC Converter's output and say the same about 2 volts of grunge and about 1 volt of grunge on the -12 Volt line. The 5 Volt line looks fine. I need to cobble up a +/- 12 Volt supply (ref to ground) to substitute the on board DC to DC Converter and see if that solves the problem. The converter is made by a company called Caritronics. Never heard of them. I'll see what google tells me. I don't really need the DC to DC converter as I never run the thing off of 12 Volts, but I've thought about it. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:48:38 -0800 From: Ed Breya e...@telight.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vectron GPSDO Oscillator stranges... Can you completely swap the Vectron crystal oscillator modules between the Datum units? Maybe the fault lies in the other part. If they are GPSDOs, each must have a DAC somewhere driving the tuning control line to the VCXO, The 10 kHz may be the DAC serial data rate, or a PWM rate for fine tuning. A fault in that area could cause the sidebands. Maybe you really did hear data. If you can hang a fairly large (several uF or more) plastic capacitor on the tuning line without causing the whole thing to oscillate, you may be able to observe a decrease in the sideband amplitude - a sure indicator that the tuning signal carries the problem. Ed Oops - regarding that capacitance test on the tuning line, I meant to say up to several uF or more. You can start small to see if there's any effect. It all depends on the impedance of the tuning line circuitry, and the existing amount of filtering - you may need quite a bit of C to swamp it out and show a noticeable effect. You're not looking for necessarily normal or perfectly-settled operation under the test condition, just the relative effect on the sidebands. Ed Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] What time...
Excuse me for asking... Can anyone tell me what time the world is supposed to come to an end tomorrow? We have a lot of shopping to do and thought it would be nice to be home and watch it on happen on TV. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 101, Issue 113
Paul, That's what I needed to know. Thank you very much. I'll let you know how it goes. Burt, K6OQK From: Ziggy zig...@pumpkinbrook.com Burt - On the scope I see 950mv RMS with 50 ohm termination, 1.5V RMS with 1M. This is on a 9390-6000 OCXO with the default timing output configuration, 10MHz on J7. Hope this helps. Paul - K9MR On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: Gang, Does anyone have a DATUM 9390 series GPS receiver that can tell me what the (50 Ohm) terminated output level of the 10 MHz spigot is. One of mine started spurring and the other one is clean, but seems way to high in output level. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 10 MHz output level from DATUM 9390...
Gang, Does anyone have a DATUM 9390 series GPS receiver that can tell me what the (50 Ohm) terminated output level of the 10 MHz spigot is. One of mine started spurring and the other one is clean, but seems way to high in output level. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB new modulation...
Hi Chris, I'm sure they're leaking pretty badly, but it's not enough to bother my normal usage. My other receivers do not hear my standards even though they are in the same rack, but the Heathkit does, even with an outside antenna. The Heathkit's front end is not shielded worth beans as it was not intended to operate in this kind of environment. My two DATUM 9390's feed two video D.A.'s Video Patch bays and all my cables are Belden 8281. The D.A.'s are rack mount and use plug in cards and are not that well enclosed. Burt, K6OQK From: Christopher Brown cbr...@woods.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB new modulation... On 11/23/12 8:28 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: I still have two of the Heathkit clocks, but alas, they won't work at home because of my standards. Burt, K6OQK Are your equipment and interconnects leaking that badly? Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB new modulation...
There were several companies that made WWV clocks that worked by recovering the 100 Hz time code information. ESE, who makes broadcast related products, including clocks, was one. I remember installing several card types manufactured by various companies that worked in computers. I still have two of the Heathkit clocks, but alas, they won't work at home because of my standards. Burt, K6OQK From: Mike Harpe m...@mikeharpe.com So doesn't this put us back to the same situation as when Heathkit got a patent for their Most Accurate Clock kit that used the timecode from the HF signals on WWV and WWVH? No one wanted to make radio clocks because of the patent. Has there been any talk about how available the chip will be? My attitude is that I'll build whatever I want to for myself. Mike Harpe, N4PLE I realize this modulation scheme change is perceived as a sensitive subject. But, really, since the full scheme is fully disclosed no company has a monopoly on its use. Actually, I think the developing company does have patents on some of the receiver implementations. You can probably design around them. My question is, will this new scheme offer enough advantages to merit the production of commercial equipment to use it, and ultimately whether low-cost equipment will be sufficiently advantageous to merit its design and production in volume like the typical WWVB digital clocks prevalent today. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...
If I sent these thoughts before, pardon me as I'm suffering from CRS Syndrom. Part of the normal work I provide is off-air measurements of broadcast stations. Would you believe, they pay me to do this! Anyway, I measure AM carriers, FM carriers, and TV, both analog and digital pilots, as well as other stuff. For FM stations I also measure any subcarrier including the RDBS signal at 57 kHz. My method for measuring is described Here: http://www.k5cm.com/k6OQK%20FMT%20NEW.htm The methodology described here is used for primarily for AM Broadcast signals, but can be used for FM subcarriers also. Some time ago I tried measuring the RDS signal in the broadcast FM baseband With my trusty 3586B looking at the baseband of my FM receiver I tried tuning the 3586B SLM to 57 kHz and looked at the resultant 15625 Hz I.F. out of the 3586B as described in the above article. It was a useless mess. Due to the nature of the 57 kHz RDS modulation, which is not FM, I just couldn't get a meaningful measurement. Rats! One day while poking around and looking at the 57 kHz RDS signal, rather than using 20 Hz bandwidth, which is really about -3 dB at 6 Hz, I used the 3.1 kHz bandwidth position. Lo and behold, I now had a very well defined display that looked very similar to the eye pattern used for examining digital transmissions. I was allowing both sidebands into the 3586B and was now able to measure down to milliHertz resolution with no problem. All I had to do was adjust my 3336B (read the above linked article) to get the pattern to stand still as either a circle or and X on the scope. I still need to dig into this a bit farther because the RDS signal really does not have a carrier as such. It has the two sidebands depending on the phase shift determined by the data. However, I do know that RDS generators that are GPS referenced give me a stationary pattern when I'm tuned to 57000.000 Hz. The RDBS signal is supposed to be locked to the third harmonic of the 19 kHz pilot, which has a +/- 2 Hz tolerance. The truth is that they're not always locked, and I know of several stations that do not feed a Pilot reference to the RDBS generator. FM broadcast RDS injection levels are typically about 2-5 percent of +/- 75 kHz deviation, but it is not a FM signal when you look in the FM baseband. Anyway, just a thought that maybe if you look at the WWVB signal with a wider bandwidth it might be interesting. I really need to take the WWVB loop off of my Symetricom 8170 and hook it to my 3586B SLM and see for myself. For what it's worth, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Why the fuss - GPS Interference...
I had a similar experience while working on the Seiko pager watch project some years ago. We were using DATUM GPS 9390 GPS receivers to time the system at each FM station transmitter site. One particular FM site on Edom Hill near Palm Springs, California (U.S.A.) had a problem from not only the associated FM transmitter but also from a nearby UHF TV running a bazillion or so Watts ERP. We finally installed a Symerticom WWVB receiver, but that was not as reliable as we needed. Not because of any interference, but because of propagation issues at 60 kHz at this mountain top site. I called DATUM to see about filters that could be put ahead of the antenna. The fellow I talked to lived within 50 miles of the site. We intellectualized for a while and finally agreed that I would pick him up in the morning and take him to the site. Well, when I picked him up he had a shopping bag that he put in the back seat. We had planned on getting something to eat before we went up the mountain so I asked, Bringing a snack? He said, No, it's a surprise. I also had one of the DATUM receiver running in my car off of 12 Volts with the antenna attached to my roof mount. As we approached the site the receiver in my car lost all satellites. He looked at the receiver in the Seiko system and then went back to the car and got the shopping bag. He then revealed his secret - a two pound coffee can with a few holes poked in the side near the bottom. We went up on the roof, disconnected the DATUM's antenna, and mounted it inside the coffee can. He told me that you have to be sure the antenna and the coffee can are electrically (RF wise) connected together. He then placed the coffee can on the roof orienting it so that it would have the best view of GPS satellites as possible given the site location and Coffee Can Aperture . By the time we got back in the building the receiver was tracking four GPS birds and a short time later was happily doing its thing. What he did was to use the coffee can as a waveguide beyond cutoff attenuator. Not really as an attenuator, but as a high pass filter. It did attenuate the FM band signal quite a bit and attenuated the UHF TV signal sufficiently so that it was no longer a problem for the system. A few says later I went back to the site and installed the Hi Pass Filter in a large upside down bottle. This ran reliably for several years until the Seiko project came to an end. I have since done this same trick at a few transmitter sites on Mt. Wilson, which overlooks Los Angeles and is home to most of the Southern California FM and (now) DTV transmitters. An aside: When Seiko ended the project they wholesaled a lot of the non-proprietary equipment out. I purchased four of the DATUM Time and Frequency receivers with Y2K updates. One I gave to a FMT-Nuts buddy, one went to a buddy who runs a Metrology Lab and the other two are running in my shoppe. See: http://www.k5cm.com/k6OQK%20FMT%20NEW.htm Burt, K6OQK Tom, We had a similar problem at a BBC site when I was selling Datum in the UK. We managed to get round the problem with a better antenna. The third harmonic of the UHF wasn't slap bang on L1 but close enough with a basic GPS antenna to kill GPS. Rob -Original Message- Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: 27 September 2012 18:44 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? Under other issues, I have one where GPS could not be used. It was at a UHF TV station where the third harmonic fell right in the L1 band. A 220,000 watt UHF transmitter driving a gain antenna for 5 MW EIRP will always produce some third harmonic near the antenna. There was no access to GPS within 1 km of the site. They were using the WWVB signal as the time and frequency reference. Luckily, the conversion the DTV moved them to a new channel and now they can use the GPS. Tom Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] George's GPS Antenna protection...
George, You don't know from messy. Trust me. Burt, K6OQK At 08:31 AM 9/28/2012, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Picture of the messy work bench below! http://www.mrrace.com/TrimbleGPS/TestEquipment.jpg Comments and suggestion are always welcomed, George Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Why the fuss - GPS Interference...
Yes, Rob, It was Rich Bailey. A good guy! He worked for DATUM in Anaheim, CA and as I recall, he lived in Riverside. I noticed that he didn't wear a watch and when I jokingly commented about it, considering what he did for a living, he told me that he had been so aware of precise time for so many years that he got tired of knowing precisely what time it was. We had fun together that day. Burt, K6OQK From: Rob Kimberley robkimber...@btinternet.com To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss - GPS Interference... Hi Burt, This sounds familiar! It wasn't a guy called Rich Bailey was it? That's what he suggested I do, but I got onto Trimble and got one of their Bullet antennae with the 3 pole filter (Bullet III?). That worked for us. Rob Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] New WWVB format...
I'm sure most of this group has seen the information put out by NIST regarding the changes to the WWVB format. But, for those who may not yet have seen this, here's a link to it: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cBhjUH41xVccWM9P8EU4JqzmFNevFgDUFkRcgfLyry1Rn3HqMV5iDqYDgsd2pM1-Vq3nhF9WERTjVF_WmRjAezjU9CCrAda_8RqV/NIST-Enhanced-WWVB-Broadcast-Format.pdf The results of this change will apparently no longer allow WWVB to be used as a high accuracy frequency standard signal. This does not seem to be much of an issue considering the availability of the GPS signals all over the world. I use GPS as my frequency reference for my Off-Air broadcast frequency measurement service. Some broadcast stations also use GPS as a reference for their transmitters. I'm sometimes asked why I use GPS as a reference when it is not recognized by NIST as the U.S. Frequency Standard? Other than explaining the capabilities of GPS as a reference, I don't have a real answer for their specific question. I have publications from NIST showing the accuracies obtainable using GPS, but it still does not appear to be an Official U.S. Frequency Standard. So, I guess my question is, when will NIST officially recognize GPS as, at least an alternate, U.S. Frequency Standard? Have I missed something? Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] New WWVB Format...
Tom, Thanks you for that file. Somehow I missed it. I think the real answer to my question is for the FCC to add GPS to their accepted standards for Frequency Measurements in the broadcast related rules. Thanks, Burt From: Tom Miller tmil...@skylinenet.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB format... See: http://www.nist.gov/calibrations/upload/1424.pdf Re. GPS traceable to NIST. - Original Message - From: Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:49 AM Subject: [time-nuts] New WWVB format... I'm sure most of this group has seen the information put out by NIST regarding the changes to the WWVB format. But, for those who may not yet have seen this, here's a link to it: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cBhjUH41xVccWM9P8EU4JqzmFNevFgDUFkRcgfLyry1Rn3HqMV5iDqYDgsd2pM1-Vq3nhF9WERTjVF_WmRjAezjU9CCrAda_8RqV/NIST-Enhanced-WWVB-Broadcast-Format.pdf The results of this change will apparently no longer allow WWVB to be used as a high accuracy frequency standard signal. This does not seem to be much of an issue considering the availability of the GPS signals all over the world. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LORAN C Antenna...
Those are the counterpoise for the antenna and increases the efficiency of the antenna. Burt, K6OQK At 08:33 AM 8/23/2012, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote What are those rays spreading from the tower base? Are they the artificial ground plane made by wires? On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Great pix. Thanks. My tower isn't quite that large. Look at the cables! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote: Wow, what a view. How does the advice go, Don't look down? On 8/22/2012 9:22 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: http://www.jan-mayen.no/ press news Look for 21. august. The last picture is particularly interesting: http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/**2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-** mast%208b.JPG http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-mast%208b.JPG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter...
I've seen severe damage to the motherboard caused by the battery leaking onto it. I've bought two with all the options from eBay, but will not consider one unless they seller shows it up and running, even with errors displayed. If I see it's running almost all other problems are fixable. When I do get one the first thing I do is get the battery out of it. So far I've been lucky. I've replaced the WECO connector with BNC connectors for the WB input on all of my HP-3586B instruments. I replace the battery with a cordless telephone 2.4 Volt Nicad jobby and mount it on the back panel by extending the leads from the power supply board. Are any of you familiar with the Beethoven test? This alone makes the price of the instrument worth it. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter If they've been sitting there doing nothing for at least three years there's also the consideration of leaking Ni-Cads on the power supply boards. The 3586 is yet another item where the backup battery was often ignored for very long periods and with very nasty results at times. The corrosive green goo that builds up on the gold plated PCB surface can also find it's way down into the edge connector and even onto the motherboard in severe cases. Not nice !! Nigel GM8PZR Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-3586x Beethoven Test...
Somehow I was hoping someone might ask. The following was sent to me by Stu, K6YAZ. If you are not familiar with this HP-3586x test, you should acquaint yourself with it. Apparently this can be run on any of the HP-3586s the A, B, or C versions. Enter the following from the front panel: Recall, decimal point, CENTR FREQ, 8 and then wait. According to the manual this is the receiver test. The numbers that fly by are the Gain Tests of various stages: 1.0 - 1.11 RF Gain 2.0 - 2.13 I.F. Gain 3.1 -3.2 Detector Counter 4.1 4.32 Flatness in 1 MHz steps 5.0 Audio Test Pay close attention to the Audio Test from the speaker and the front panel lights during the audio test. This test by itself is reason enough to own one of these versatile and wonderful instruments. Burt, K6OQK At 01:13 PM 7/30/2012, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Are any of you familiar with the Beethoven test? This alone makes the price of the instrument worth it. No, what is the Beethoven test? -Eric Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-3586x Beethoven Test...
I was hoping you wouldn't ask. I've always had to turn my 3586's off and then back on. There must be a simpler way but I don't remember what it is. It's kinda neat, isn't it. Someone at HP had a sense of humor. Burt, K6OQK At 04:56 PM 7/30/2012, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote From: J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-3586x Beethoven Test... I have two of the 3586C's and tried the 'Beethoven Test' on both. Now, other than turning it off, how do you make it stop? Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Burt I. Weiner Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 4:03 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP-3586x Beethoven Test... Somehow I was hoping someone might ask. The following was sent to me by Stu, K6YAZ. If you are not familiar with this HP-3586x test, you should acquaint yourself with it. Apparently this can be run on any of the HP-3586's - the A, B, or C versions. Enter the following from the front panel: Recall, decimal point, CENTR FREQ, 8 and then wait. According to the manual this is the receiver test. The numbers that fly by are the Gain Tests of various stages: 1.0 - 1.11 RF Gain 2.0 - 2.13 I.F. Gain 3.1 -3.2 Detector Counter 4.1 - 4.32 Flatness in 1 MHz steps 5.0 Audio Test Pay close attention to the Audio Test from the speaker and the front panel lights during the audio test. This test by itself is reason enough to own one of these versatile and wonderful instruments. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...
Many years ago I had one of these antennas that I used with a Gertsch RLF-1 WWVB receiver. When the Nuvistors became old and feeble I decided to change the 6CW4 Nuvistors to FETs. Being young and foolish and thinking this is basically audio, I went to Radio Shack and got some N-Channel FETs and stuffed the FET's leads into the appropriate Nuvistor socket pins: Gate to Grid, Source to Cathode, and Drain to Plate. As I recall, I had to add a wee bit of capacitance to make it tune back down to 60 KC - back then I didn't know from kHz. I made a voltage divider inside the antenna's junction box to get the higher voltage down to what the FETs wanted. It ran fine for the remaining 8 to10 years that I used the RLF-1's. I forget where the antenna went, but it may still be in use somewhere. At least I hope so. Burt, K6OQK From: Merchison Burke merchi...@yahoo.co.uk To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a Hello, Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of buying the expensive Nunistors. Thanks for all help, Merchison Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP-3336B Power Supply grief...
A friend of mine, Marv, W6OQI has a HP-3336B with a failed power supply. He and I both have manuals but they show the wrong power supply schematic and parts layout. What he needs is a rev E power supply schematic and parts layout. Can anyone help? Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Oh dear
A friend of mine signed me up for a catalog from the Audio Advisor. He said I deserved this - I was afraid to ask what he meant by that! Spend a few minutes looking over this site: http://www.audioadvisor.com/ Be sure to check out their Power cords at: http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/search?w=Power+Cords Burt, K6OQK From: Rob Kimberley robkimber...@btinternet.com To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear An old saying: a fool and his money are often parted. Sums things up nicely I feel. Rob Kimberley Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Antenna Restrictions...
I can tell you from first hand experience - Do not restrict the air flow of a roof vent associated with plumbing, especially if it's associated with the Loo. Burt, K6OQK On 4/15/2012 5:41 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: Yes, but you GPS antenna surely would notice the infusion with various fumes and chemicals that come from the vent pipe. Remember, the vent is open to the sewer, its purpose is to prevent pressure build up in the sewer from blowing (or sucking) the water out of the various traps and letting sewer gas into the house. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Looking for CA3130E IC...
Hopefully someone out there has a stash of what I'm looking for. I need 4 ea IC type CA3130E. Need this specific number. It's an 8 pin DIP. I've tried DigiKey and Mouser. No luck. Thanks, Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
